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True Murder with 57 00:02:27.439 --> 00:02:31.439 your host, journalist and author Dan Zupanski. 58 00:02:41.280 --> 00:02:46.159 Good Evening. She was an innocent Mormon girl. He was 59 00:02:46.240 --> 00:02:50.759 America's most notorious serial killer. When their pass crossed on 60 00:02:50.840 --> 00:02:54.800 a quiet autumn afternoon, he planned to kill her, But 61 00:02:55.000 --> 00:02:58.240 this victim had an incredible will to survive and would 62 00:02:58.240 --> 00:03:00.840 live to tell her story. Nearly three decades after he 63 00:03:00.960 --> 00:03:05.520 met death in a Florida electric chair, Ted Bundy brutally 64 00:03:05.560 --> 00:03:09.159 attacked Randa Stapley in a secluded Utah canyon in nineteen 65 00:03:09.280 --> 00:03:13.879 seventy four. She miraculously escaped and hit her dark secret 66 00:03:14.039 --> 00:03:18.439 until now. This compelling real story of triumph over tragedy 67 00:03:18.520 --> 00:03:21.639 is both shocking and inspiring and told with the true 68 00:03:21.759 --> 00:03:26.960 courage of a victim turned survivor. There's a forward by 69 00:03:27.080 --> 00:03:30.800 the late Great and Rule. The book that we're featuring 70 00:03:30.840 --> 00:03:34.759 this evening is I Survived Ted Bundy. The attack, Escape 71 00:03:34.879 --> 00:03:38.680 and PTSD that changed my life with my special guest author, 72 00:03:38.840 --> 00:03:41.800 Rnda Stapley. Welcome to the program and thank you for 73 00:03:41.879 --> 00:03:43.599 agreeing to this interview. Randa Stapley. 74 00:03:44.919 --> 00:03:46.639 Wow, thank you Dan for inviting me. 75 00:03:48.120 --> 00:03:52.479 Thank you very much. This is an incredible tale and 76 00:03:53.240 --> 00:03:59.039 again just and another incredible perspective that it just amazes me, 77 00:03:59.240 --> 00:04:02.439 never ceases to me. Some of the books, and this 78 00:04:02.639 --> 00:04:08.000 book in particular, from probably the most infamous serial killer 79 00:04:08.039 --> 00:04:12.240 of all time, and this incredible interest never has waned. 80 00:04:12.439 --> 00:04:17.079 And this story should be again for everyone that thinks 81 00:04:17.120 --> 00:04:19.680 they know everything about Ted Bundy, here's another book that 82 00:04:20.680 --> 00:04:24.439 tells you that that's not so true. So let's get 83 00:04:24.519 --> 00:04:28.040 to when we did in the introduction that you were 84 00:04:28.120 --> 00:04:31.680 innocent Mormon girl. So tell us where you grew up 85 00:04:32.199 --> 00:04:37.319 in Utah and tell us a little bit about your life. Again, 86 00:04:37.399 --> 00:04:40.879 we go back to a different time, so for those 87 00:04:40.959 --> 00:04:44.279 people that are younger or just again, we always have 88 00:04:44.399 --> 00:04:47.279 to put that in a historic perspective. So take us 89 00:04:47.399 --> 00:04:53.319 back to where you grew up and the Mormon upbringing 90 00:04:53.399 --> 00:04:55.920 that you did grew up and your parents and your 91 00:04:56.279 --> 00:04:58.759 three other siblings. Tell us a little bit about your 92 00:04:58.800 --> 00:05:02.720 life before we talk about that Faithful Day in Utah 93 00:05:02.720 --> 00:05:03.800 in nineteen seventy four. 94 00:05:06.000 --> 00:05:11.199 All Right. I was born in Richfield, Utah, and my 95 00:05:11.279 --> 00:05:13.800 father moved around. We moved around quite a lot. Here 96 00:05:13.839 --> 00:05:17.000 was in the potato industry, and I actually went to 97 00:05:17.399 --> 00:05:21.519 grade school in Burley, Idaho. And I went to junior 98 00:05:21.639 --> 00:05:27.160 high in Othello, Washington, and high school in Connell, Washington. 99 00:05:27.959 --> 00:05:31.199 I have relatives in Utah. That's where my grandparents and 100 00:05:31.240 --> 00:05:33.959 people were, so when it came time to go to college, 101 00:05:34.000 --> 00:05:37.360 I chose to come to the University of Utah. I 102 00:05:37.519 --> 00:05:40.800 have two older brothers and one very much younger sister. 103 00:05:40.959 --> 00:05:44.720 She's twelve years younger than me. I was raised in 104 00:05:44.800 --> 00:05:55.680 a very conservative LDS Mormon household. We believe in what's 105 00:05:55.680 --> 00:06:00.439 called the Word of Wisdom, which is not taking of alcohol, coffee, tobacco, 106 00:06:02.279 --> 00:06:06.519 not eating things that are bad for the body, not 107 00:06:06.600 --> 00:06:12.879 abusing drugs, and not over indulging in anything. I would 108 00:06:12.920 --> 00:06:17.160 you believe in purity and chastity and saving yourself from 109 00:06:17.160 --> 00:06:20.079 marriage and all of those kind of things that the 110 00:06:20.120 --> 00:06:28.079 world considers virtuous and especially as that time period young women. 111 00:06:32.079 --> 00:06:34.199 Now also at that time, when you talk about the 112 00:06:35.079 --> 00:06:39.199 the upbringing that you have, you said your sin was pepsicola. 113 00:06:39.360 --> 00:06:45.199 So this is about how lawless or outlandish you ever 114 00:06:45.319 --> 00:06:48.959 got was to sneak some pepsicola for yourself, wasn't it. 115 00:06:49.639 --> 00:06:52.439 Yeah, I would, I would drink pepsi. Pepsi wasn't really 116 00:06:52.680 --> 00:06:55.480 against the religion, but it was kind of frowned upon 117 00:06:55.560 --> 00:06:58.560 because it has caffeine supposed to avoid anything that's the 118 00:06:58.680 --> 00:07:03.560 stimulant and stuff like that. So pepsi was my evil 119 00:07:03.600 --> 00:07:04.920 sin and my weakness. 120 00:07:07.199 --> 00:07:09.759 Now with your you're saying in the book you talk 121 00:07:09.800 --> 00:07:14.399 about that your father died fairly early, and tell us 122 00:07:14.439 --> 00:07:18.319 about that and also what your mother did as a result. 123 00:07:18.480 --> 00:07:20.720 Especially back in those times, it must have been difficult 124 00:07:21.360 --> 00:07:24.720 and that affected the kind of idea that you had 125 00:07:24.800 --> 00:07:27.560 about yourself and what your future would be career wise. 126 00:07:27.639 --> 00:07:30.480 So tell us a little bit about the event where 127 00:07:30.519 --> 00:07:34.519 your father passed away and how that changed your family. 128 00:07:35.680 --> 00:07:38.680 Okay, with us is when I was fourteen, I was 129 00:07:38.720 --> 00:07:42.000 a freshman in high school. We had just barely moved 130 00:07:42.079 --> 00:07:44.560 to the town of Connell. My father had put up 131 00:07:44.560 --> 00:07:48.639 a brand new potato factory there, and he had flown 132 00:07:48.680 --> 00:07:53.399 to Seattle to talk to some patent attorneys, and they 133 00:07:53.439 --> 00:07:57.240 are plane crashed into mountainal Quality, and he and the 134 00:07:57.319 --> 00:08:01.680 pilot and his business partner were all It took them 135 00:08:02.639 --> 00:08:05.079 a week to find that to find the crash plane, 136 00:08:05.839 --> 00:08:08.399 and during that time, of course, family members came from 137 00:08:08.439 --> 00:08:10.240 all over to help in the search and so forth, 138 00:08:10.319 --> 00:08:15.160 and it was a very very stressful time. Once they 139 00:08:15.240 --> 00:08:19.879 found the plane and we had the funerals, I just 140 00:08:20.199 --> 00:08:23.079 promised myself that I was gonna not cause my mom 141 00:08:23.160 --> 00:08:24.920 to worry. I was going to be the strong one, 142 00:08:25.000 --> 00:08:27.480 and I was gonna help take care of my little sister, 143 00:08:27.519 --> 00:08:30.279 who was two years old at that time. She of 144 00:08:30.360 --> 00:08:33.200 course hated going to the babysitter, and so I would 145 00:08:33.759 --> 00:08:36.759 avoid going on very many dates and things just because 146 00:08:36.919 --> 00:08:38.720 I either had to take her with or I had 147 00:08:38.720 --> 00:08:40.320 to leave her at the babysitter and she would cry. 148 00:08:41.039 --> 00:08:42.799 So my mother had to get a full time job. 149 00:08:43.039 --> 00:08:45.360 She worked as a clerk at the hardware store because 150 00:08:45.360 --> 00:08:49.879 she didn't have a college education. Those were times when 151 00:08:50.480 --> 00:08:54.039 women normally didn't work outside of the home, and if 152 00:08:54.080 --> 00:08:58.399 they did, it was kind of mundane waitressing and secretarial 153 00:08:58.639 --> 00:09:01.960 and nurses in school teach your kind of jobs. And 154 00:09:02.080 --> 00:09:05.840 I decided at that point that I was not going 155 00:09:05.919 --> 00:09:08.200 to have that kind of a career I was going 156 00:09:08.240 --> 00:09:11.159 to I was not going to depend on marrying somebody 157 00:09:11.320 --> 00:09:13.080 to support me. I was going to have a career 158 00:09:13.159 --> 00:09:17.360 that I could support myself if something serious happened. And 159 00:09:17.480 --> 00:09:20.080 there was a lady that started there weren't There weren't 160 00:09:20.080 --> 00:09:22.480 really many pharmacists who were women in that time. But 161 00:09:23.279 --> 00:09:26.000 but there was one lady pharmacist who started coming to 162 00:09:26.120 --> 00:09:29.279 our town just kind of as a relief pharmacist. Once 163 00:09:29.320 --> 00:09:31.720 a week she'd work in our in our little town, 164 00:09:31.799 --> 00:09:33.679 and once a week she'd work in another little town. 165 00:09:33.759 --> 00:09:36.200 And just by working three or four days a week, 166 00:09:36.279 --> 00:09:39.000 she made far more money than my mother was making 167 00:09:39.080 --> 00:09:42.720 working six days a week. And I decided that maybe 168 00:09:42.759 --> 00:09:45.480 I would be a pharmacist. And so that's what I 169 00:09:45.559 --> 00:09:47.559 came to the University of Utah to do. Is they 170 00:09:47.679 --> 00:09:50.919 have one of the bitter pharmacy colleges in the nation. 171 00:09:51.639 --> 00:09:53.159 Plus it was close to my relatives. 172 00:09:56.960 --> 00:10:01.960 Now we talk about the University of Utah, and I 173 00:10:02.159 --> 00:10:05.519 just want to add too that you you really had 174 00:10:05.600 --> 00:10:08.279 no experience with violence, As you say you said in 175 00:10:08.399 --> 00:10:13.360 that regard, you were very naive, and at that time 176 00:10:13.519 --> 00:10:17.080 you also point out that most people that you knew, 177 00:10:17.440 --> 00:10:21.320 were not aware of any of these attacks associated with 178 00:10:21.519 --> 00:10:24.200 what we would find out later as Ted Bundy were 179 00:10:24.279 --> 00:10:26.200 they we're not aware of any of this. 180 00:10:26.600 --> 00:10:31.840 Yeah, that's right. At the time that this happened to me, 181 00:10:32.159 --> 00:10:35.960 was just that in the beginning of the school year 182 00:10:36.000 --> 00:10:39.200 in nineteen seventy four, Ted Bundy course had started killing 183 00:10:39.279 --> 00:10:45.080 people as far as really recorded in his history, in 184 00:10:45.240 --> 00:10:49.320 January in state of Washington and Oregon. And he killed 185 00:10:49.360 --> 00:10:52.120 on about a monthly basis, a little bit off here 186 00:10:52.200 --> 00:10:54.679 and there, a little bit of variation, but close to 187 00:10:54.840 --> 00:10:57.200 a month, about a month apart, and he had killed 188 00:10:57.440 --> 00:11:00.919 eleven women in the first nine months of that year. 189 00:11:01.559 --> 00:11:03.840 And then he moved to Salt Lake City to also 190 00:11:03.919 --> 00:11:06.679 attend the University of Utah as a first year law student. 191 00:11:08.360 --> 00:11:11.559 People in Utah had not heard about killings in Washington 192 00:11:11.639 --> 00:11:15.799 and Oregon. Nobody had even heard of a serial killer. 193 00:11:15.840 --> 00:11:18.120 I don't think there was even a word called that. 194 00:11:18.279 --> 00:11:22.440 Of course, there's always been serial killers, but nobody called 195 00:11:22.480 --> 00:11:25.720 them that until Ted Bundy came around. I believe I 196 00:11:25.799 --> 00:11:28.120 think the phrase was coined for him. 197 00:11:31.639 --> 00:11:36.320 Now, you talk about the day in question, but tell 198 00:11:36.399 --> 00:11:38.879 us a little bit just before that we're talking. The 199 00:11:38.960 --> 00:11:41.759 date is October eleventh, But tell us a little bit 200 00:11:42.080 --> 00:11:46.960 about that, about how school was and how casual or 201 00:11:47.120 --> 00:11:49.000 how strict it was at that time. I guess I'm 202 00:11:49.039 --> 00:11:51.120 alluded to it that was very casual. But tell us 203 00:11:51.159 --> 00:11:55.480 the atmosphere and the environment at this University of Utah 204 00:11:55.559 --> 00:11:59.399 health safe? Did you feel at this campus? 205 00:12:01.000 --> 00:12:03.559 I felt very safe. And this was a time when 206 00:12:04.799 --> 00:12:07.399 everybody tried to help everybody, and nobody was. 207 00:12:09.320 --> 00:12:09.360 That. 208 00:12:09.480 --> 00:12:14.120 There was hardly any such thing as fear. People would 209 00:12:14.159 --> 00:12:15.879 walk around l alone at night. You'd go to the 210 00:12:15.919 --> 00:12:17.919 library and study till midnight and walk home, and you 211 00:12:17.960 --> 00:12:22.519 wouldn't be worried about anything happening to you, and people 212 00:12:22.559 --> 00:12:27.080 were looking out for other people. No one locked their doors. 213 00:12:27.759 --> 00:12:29.919 I lived in an apartment building, on the fourth floor 214 00:12:30.000 --> 00:12:34.240 of a thirteen story apartment building, and people would, you know, 215 00:12:34.360 --> 00:12:37.240 ride up the elevators and just party in every room. 216 00:12:37.399 --> 00:12:43.600 And everybody was everybody's friend, whether you really knew them 217 00:12:43.679 --> 00:12:47.000 or not. Most of the most of the people that 218 00:12:47.759 --> 00:12:51.360 I associated with were lds and part of my my 219 00:12:51.600 --> 00:12:56.399 little Mormon ward. We would go to social functions and 220 00:12:56.559 --> 00:13:02.120 picnics and intertubing down the snow and stuff as a 221 00:13:02.159 --> 00:13:08.039 group of other Mormon people have hot chocolate and chili afterwards. 222 00:13:10.960 --> 00:13:13.039 Life was good now at the same time I got 223 00:13:13.080 --> 00:13:16.799 asked this question, unfortunately, but because I remember, you know, 224 00:13:16.879 --> 00:13:19.720 I was born in nineteen fifty nine, so I remember 225 00:13:19.879 --> 00:13:23.000 how casual it was where I was in terms of hitchhiking, 226 00:13:23.240 --> 00:13:27.440 women or men or people picking up hitchhikers. Are people 227 00:13:27.720 --> 00:13:30.799 willing to take rides from people? So what was sort 228 00:13:30.840 --> 00:13:33.879 of the rule at that time? Just to point out 229 00:13:33.960 --> 00:13:37.559 for audience, exactly sort of the again, the sort of 230 00:13:37.679 --> 00:13:40.200 care free atmosphere we were still in at that time, 231 00:13:40.320 --> 00:13:45.279 it seemed like, so what exactly was the rule about hitchhiking? 232 00:13:46.720 --> 00:13:49.600 A lot of people hitchhiked. I never hit shiked because 233 00:13:49.679 --> 00:13:54.279 I heard it wasn't safe, and I believed that what 234 00:13:54.440 --> 00:13:56.480 I felt about my experience was that it was not 235 00:13:56.639 --> 00:14:02.600 hitch hiking. Nobody knew that hitchhiking was dangerous, but it 236 00:14:02.720 --> 00:14:04.960 wasn't so dangerous that people still didn't dare to do it. 237 00:14:06.679 --> 00:14:10.320 Probably the year before, I had picked up a ticket 238 00:14:10.399 --> 00:14:14.080 from the bulletin board in the student lobby that I 239 00:14:14.279 --> 00:14:15.919 just had little tear tags on it. If you wanted 240 00:14:15.919 --> 00:14:17.960 to ride to Washington I needed to go home for 241 00:14:18.120 --> 00:14:20.679 Thanksgiving the year before this, and I just tore off 242 00:14:20.720 --> 00:14:23.639 a ticket and rode home in a van full of 243 00:14:24.240 --> 00:14:29.080 hippie kind of students heading back to Washington State. Everybody 244 00:14:29.120 --> 00:14:31.519 chipped in twenty bucks per gas and nobody knew anybody. 245 00:14:31.559 --> 00:14:34.600 But it was the time that you could do stuff 246 00:14:34.639 --> 00:14:34.799 like that. 247 00:14:38.080 --> 00:14:40.440 Now, as you writing a book, you talk about October seventh, 248 00:14:40.559 --> 00:14:45.159 nineteen seventy four, with a young girl named Nancy Wilcox, 249 00:14:45.200 --> 00:14:49.120 which is sixteen years old and from Halliday, Utah. He 250 00:14:49.240 --> 00:14:53.320 was a Mormon girl as well. She disappeared and friends 251 00:14:53.360 --> 00:14:56.879 had reported that she may have been driving in a 252 00:14:57.799 --> 00:15:03.639 light colored VW. So then for that, tell us what 253 00:15:03.919 --> 00:15:07.600 was happening on October eleventh with you personally in your 254 00:15:07.639 --> 00:15:08.960 personal life that. 255 00:15:09.120 --> 00:15:13.799 Day, mkay, with my personal life. I hadn't heard actually 256 00:15:13.879 --> 00:15:17.519 about Nancy Wilcox disappearing the week before because people had 257 00:15:17.519 --> 00:15:19.559 thought that she was a runaway and her story didn't 258 00:15:19.559 --> 00:15:24.320 even really make the news. On the eleventh, it was 259 00:15:24.360 --> 00:15:28.879 a Friday afternoon, uh fall kind of weather, uh sunny 260 00:15:28.960 --> 00:15:31.559 but kind of kind of nippy cold, and and I 261 00:15:31.639 --> 00:15:35.039 had a dentist appointment at a downtown Salt Lake city 262 00:15:35.559 --> 00:15:38.799 dental place. I had gotten a brand new car recently, 263 00:15:38.919 --> 00:15:41.000 but I was kind of chicken to drive it in 264 00:15:41.159 --> 00:15:43.639 city traffic, and so I left it home and rode 265 00:15:43.639 --> 00:15:45.600 the bus cause that's what I'd been doing my whole 266 00:15:45.679 --> 00:15:49.279 college career, the three years that i'd been at the university. Already, 267 00:15:49.320 --> 00:15:56.440 I'd been uh a bus rider person. And so that 268 00:15:56.559 --> 00:15:59.399 day I took the bus downtown. And then after the 269 00:15:59.440 --> 00:16:02.080 dental appoint I had on brand new shoes, so I 270 00:16:02.120 --> 00:16:03.679 decided I would walk over to a park. 271 00:16:04.399 --> 00:16:04.519 Now. 272 00:16:04.559 --> 00:16:07.240 While I was at that dentist's office, something went wrong 273 00:16:07.279 --> 00:16:11.320 in my mouth and my whole face became swollen and 274 00:16:11.399 --> 00:16:14.240 red and sore, and it ended up that the dentists 275 00:16:14.279 --> 00:16:16.519 had to cut all along my gum line and rinse 276 00:16:16.559 --> 00:16:19.440 out inside of my cheek because I er, I don't know, 277 00:16:19.519 --> 00:16:21.200 I think he had made some kind of an error. 278 00:16:22.960 --> 00:16:25.039 He told me some story about it was because I 279 00:16:25.600 --> 00:16:28.440 had been a premature baby and my job wasn't completely formed, 280 00:16:28.480 --> 00:16:30.559 so when he injected something, it went into the wrong 281 00:16:31.039 --> 00:16:34.799 part of my mouth right. But regardless, when I left, 282 00:16:34.960 --> 00:16:37.799 I had stitches in my mouth. And that's kind of 283 00:16:37.840 --> 00:16:41.200 significant because there are a lot of ted Bundy victims 284 00:16:41.320 --> 00:16:45.240 and other victims who have had something distracting them, either 285 00:16:45.279 --> 00:16:48.320 they'd had a fight with their boyfriend, or the parents 286 00:16:48.360 --> 00:16:50.399 were sick, or they were sick, or they had tests 287 00:16:50.440 --> 00:16:52.039 coming up, or you know, some kind of stress that 288 00:16:52.159 --> 00:16:56.039 there weren't really as focused and probably as concentrated and 289 00:16:56.200 --> 00:17:04.119 as as as paying attention as they normally would have been, 290 00:17:04.279 --> 00:17:05.519 not as cautious right. 291 00:17:09.039 --> 00:17:12.039 Now, d The one thing that was again is very significant, 292 00:17:12.160 --> 00:17:13.920 is that you said you had brand new shoes, but 293 00:17:14.039 --> 00:17:17.480 you had on hiking boots. And tell us about what 294 00:17:17.640 --> 00:17:20.119 was significant about those hiking boots and what you did 295 00:17:20.400 --> 00:17:20.759 with them. 296 00:17:21.640 --> 00:17:24.119 Hiking boots. Just about every pair I've ever boughten have 297 00:17:24.240 --> 00:17:26.960 been the same way. The laces are long enough for 298 00:17:27.000 --> 00:17:30.319 about three pairs of hiking boots. So these boots had 299 00:17:30.599 --> 00:17:33.279 laces that just went on forever, and so I laced 300 00:17:33.319 --> 00:17:35.759 them up. These were high top over the ankle kind 301 00:17:35.799 --> 00:17:38.240 of boots, and I'd laced them up snug, and then 302 00:17:38.799 --> 00:17:41.039 wrapped the laces that were way too long around and 303 00:17:41.079 --> 00:17:43.680 around my ankle three or four times, and then tie 304 00:17:43.720 --> 00:17:45.400 them in a bowl and then double knotted them so 305 00:17:45.480 --> 00:17:50.160 they were really on my feet well. And then I'd 306 00:17:50.160 --> 00:17:52.440 walked to the park to kind of break them in 307 00:17:52.559 --> 00:17:54.960 and just take a break from school and classes. 308 00:17:58.000 --> 00:18:01.119 Now, when you went near the park to explain this, 309 00:18:02.680 --> 00:18:05.200 you know, it's always amazing to me that when I 310 00:18:05.279 --> 00:18:07.440 look at a photo of Ted Bundy, he looks like 311 00:18:07.640 --> 00:18:12.400 to me, great canear the All American US actor, you know. 312 00:18:12.599 --> 00:18:16.880 But that's just me. But tell us what you did see. 313 00:18:17.200 --> 00:18:19.920 Of course you didn't see the serial killer Ted Bundy. 314 00:18:21.240 --> 00:18:23.799 But why again, we said you had a strict rule, 315 00:18:23.839 --> 00:18:27.799 you wouldn't have hitchhiked. So tell us about this circumstance 316 00:18:27.960 --> 00:18:33.920 and what is it that you saw that seemed to 317 00:18:34.000 --> 00:18:39.240 formulate in your mind a sense of security or no apprehension. 318 00:18:39.279 --> 00:18:39.680 We'll say. 319 00:18:41.000 --> 00:18:43.039 Okay, Well, after I had wandered around the park for 320 00:18:43.079 --> 00:18:45.039 a while and done about everything there is to do, 321 00:18:45.519 --> 00:18:49.720 looked at birds in aviary and watch people picnicking, and 322 00:18:51.319 --> 00:18:54.559 walk with my boots through the yellow and gold leaves 323 00:18:54.640 --> 00:18:57.319 and stuff from falling off the trees in the autumn, 324 00:18:58.119 --> 00:19:01.319 then venumbness in my mouth from the dell surgery had 325 00:19:01.359 --> 00:19:02.960 started to come off, and I could tell I was 326 00:19:03.000 --> 00:19:04.680 going to be in pain and that I better find 327 00:19:04.720 --> 00:19:07.640 a bus stop and get back up to campus. I 328 00:19:07.799 --> 00:19:10.440 lived on campus, and that's where I needed to be going. 329 00:19:11.240 --> 00:19:13.759 So I found a bus stop and I waited and waited. 330 00:19:14.279 --> 00:19:17.119 Buses usually come every ten to fifteen minutes, and I 331 00:19:17.240 --> 00:19:19.759 must have waited thirty five minutes or so, and no 332 00:19:19.920 --> 00:19:21.720 bus had come. Even if I had missed the first one, 333 00:19:21.799 --> 00:19:23.640 I was way too long for the next one to 334 00:19:23.720 --> 00:19:27.160 have come. My mouth was getting sore, and I was discouraged, 335 00:19:27.200 --> 00:19:29.359 and I was trying to think of where another bus 336 00:19:29.359 --> 00:19:31.279 stop would be that would have the same route that 337 00:19:31.319 --> 00:19:34.039 would get me back up to campus. And then down 338 00:19:34.079 --> 00:19:37.200 the road came a tan Volkswagen and it just drove 339 00:19:37.240 --> 00:19:40.160 by really slow. This was in nineteen seventy four. There 340 00:19:40.240 --> 00:19:42.599 was not a lot of traffic, and it drove by 341 00:19:42.640 --> 00:19:45.200 really slow, and then it stopped and backed up. The 342 00:19:45.279 --> 00:19:47.599 cute driver leaned over and rolled down the passenger window 343 00:19:47.720 --> 00:19:50.240 and asked me where I was going, and I told 344 00:19:50.319 --> 00:19:52.200 him I was going up to the university, and he 345 00:19:52.279 --> 00:19:55.359 smiled and said me too. Hop in, and so I 346 00:19:55.440 --> 00:19:57.799 opened the door and got in. He did not seem scary. 347 00:20:00.000 --> 00:20:02.039 I knew that hitchhiking was not a good idea, but 348 00:20:02.160 --> 00:20:04.839 this did not feel like hitchhiking. This felt like a 349 00:20:05.000 --> 00:20:09.279 friendly college student helping a fellow college student. He was 350 00:20:09.359 --> 00:20:12.160 not scary, and it didn't feel wrong or dangerous. 351 00:20:13.240 --> 00:20:19.079 Now a conversation ensued. So in the beginning of the conversation, again, 352 00:20:19.160 --> 00:20:22.359 you didn't seem to be apprehensive. So tell us what 353 00:20:22.440 --> 00:20:25.759 you guys talked about. And then you talk about a 354 00:20:25.799 --> 00:20:27.480 different route, So tell us what happened. 355 00:20:29.440 --> 00:20:31.960 H Yeah, So I tell him, you know, my name's 356 00:20:32.000 --> 00:20:34.279 Ronda and I'm a pharmacy student at the U. He 357 00:20:34.400 --> 00:20:36.799 tells me my name's Ted and I'm a first year 358 00:20:36.880 --> 00:20:41.799 law student. We've talked about cars. I told him that 359 00:20:41.839 --> 00:20:43.240 I had a new car and I was scared to 360 00:20:43.319 --> 00:20:45.680 drive it. And he hadn't only gone just a couple 361 00:20:45.720 --> 00:20:48.480 of blocks when he turned east, and you could get 362 00:20:48.480 --> 00:20:50.640 to the University of that direction, but it wasn't the 363 00:20:50.720 --> 00:20:53.200 normal direction. It had a really steep hill to go up, 364 00:20:53.960 --> 00:20:57.440 and Volkswagens have a stick shift with a clutch, and 365 00:20:57.599 --> 00:20:59.519 I never would have dared drive up that hill with 366 00:20:59.599 --> 00:21:02.559 a with a stick shift. And I kind of joked 367 00:21:02.559 --> 00:21:04.880 with him about that, said, why are we going this way? 368 00:21:04.960 --> 00:21:06.920 This is kind of a scary way to go because 369 00:21:08.359 --> 00:21:12.200 we could like roll down the hill backwards and he says, no, 370 00:21:12.480 --> 00:21:14.440 he's used to that car and they'll be just fine. 371 00:21:14.480 --> 00:21:18.400 But he very very politely said, I hope you don't mind, 372 00:21:18.440 --> 00:21:20.519 but I have a really short errand to run up 373 00:21:20.559 --> 00:21:23.480 by the zoo. And I didn't mind. The zoo is 374 00:21:23.720 --> 00:21:26.920 just kind of one canyon over from the from the 375 00:21:27.000 --> 00:21:31.279 university and almost on the way, and I would still 376 00:21:31.319 --> 00:21:33.599 be home faster than if I had waited for the bus. 377 00:21:34.640 --> 00:21:37.440 So then we drove up towards the zoo, started going 378 00:21:37.519 --> 00:21:39.920 up the canyon where the zoo is located, and we 379 00:21:40.000 --> 00:21:42.839 went right on past the zoo and I said, hey, 380 00:21:42.920 --> 00:21:44.680 I thought you were taking me to the zoo, kind 381 00:21:44.720 --> 00:21:47.039 of joking with him, and we were just just chatting. 382 00:21:47.079 --> 00:21:50.119 It just seemed like two college kids chatting. And he said, no, 383 00:21:50.640 --> 00:21:52.200 I didn't say it's taking it to the zoo. I 384 00:21:52.240 --> 00:21:55.960 said I had an errand to run near the zoo. 385 00:21:56.680 --> 00:21:58.839 So we kept going through. There's you go through a 386 00:21:58.839 --> 00:22:01.839 little town and over hill, and then you're in Parties Canyon, 387 00:22:01.880 --> 00:22:04.400 which is the main highway coming back into the city, 388 00:22:05.759 --> 00:22:08.720 and at that point the sun is setting. We're going 389 00:22:08.839 --> 00:22:11.960 west into the sunset, and you see this beautiful city 390 00:22:12.119 --> 00:22:17.279 and it's beautiful, and we're just kind of chatting as stills, 391 00:22:17.359 --> 00:22:21.240 no warnings going off, and no bells and whistles. It's 392 00:22:21.279 --> 00:22:24.039 obvious that there was no errand to run, but I 393 00:22:24.119 --> 00:22:27.000 thought he's just flirting with me and has just taking 394 00:22:27.039 --> 00:22:29.440 me for a car ride. Then when we got to 395 00:22:29.519 --> 00:22:32.240 the bottom of that canyon, he should have turned right 396 00:22:32.319 --> 00:22:35.359 to take me to campus, and instead we turned left 397 00:22:35.400 --> 00:22:38.519 and started going up another canyon. And that was when 398 00:22:38.640 --> 00:22:43.640 the the trip started to feel awkward and not quite 399 00:22:43.680 --> 00:22:46.759 as safe, and. 400 00:22:46.839 --> 00:22:53.079 The conversation changed. Yes, said his mood changed too. 401 00:22:55.200 --> 00:22:57.799