WEBVTT 1 00:00:01.439 --> 00:00:05.400 Welcome to Skin and Soul. I'm Gwenhemkarsley, a transformational body, 2 00:00:05.480 --> 00:00:08.560 sex and Soul coach, and I'm inviting you on a bold, 3 00:00:08.720 --> 00:00:10.519 unfiltered journey into the heart. 4 00:00:10.320 --> 00:00:13.080 Of our humanity through the lens of arrows. This is 5 00:00:13.080 --> 00:00:14.240 where we strip away. 6 00:00:14.039 --> 00:00:17.160 The shame, dive into the unspoken, and embrace the wild, 7 00:00:17.399 --> 00:00:18.800 raw truth of our desires. 8 00:00:18.920 --> 00:00:20.120 Together, we'll crack. 9 00:00:19.920 --> 00:00:23.399 Open the taboo and cover our deepest intimacies and awaken 10 00:00:23.480 --> 00:00:27.399 the pulse of our sexual essence. Because real transformation it's messy, 11 00:00:27.600 --> 00:00:31.239 it's thrilling, and it's oh so delicious. Buckle up. 12 00:00:31.280 --> 00:00:31.600 Loves. 13 00:00:31.719 --> 00:00:35.439 Skin and Soul Beyond the Pale starts in three two one. 14 00:00:35.799 --> 00:00:36.240 Let's go. 15 00:00:40.200 --> 00:00:42.679 Hello and welcome. I'm Gwenhem. I'm your host of Skin 16 00:00:42.719 --> 00:00:45.520 and Soul Beyond the Pale. And the question I have 17 00:00:45.640 --> 00:00:48.880 for you today is the sex or the desire for 18 00:00:48.960 --> 00:00:52.719 sex really fizzle and fade out over time? Today I'm 19 00:00:52.759 --> 00:00:55.640 joined in conversation with Caroline Hood, who is a certified 20 00:00:55.640 --> 00:00:58.960 sex therapist. She's also the author of her forthcoming book 21 00:00:59.000 --> 00:01:03.280 called Sex Begets Reclaiming Desire, Power and Pleasure in Long 22 00:01:03.359 --> 00:01:06.799 Term Love, where she challenges the assumptions we have about 23 00:01:06.840 --> 00:01:10.200 intimacy and desire in long term relationships. And I love 24 00:01:10.280 --> 00:01:14.680 this topic because I have experienced this first time. So welcome, Caroline. 25 00:01:15.120 --> 00:01:17.319 Oh, thanks for having me. Yeah, I'm excited to be here. 26 00:01:18.959 --> 00:01:21.120 So I want to start with I also know that 27 00:01:21.200 --> 00:01:26.359 you have a full, busy life and a very intimacy world, 28 00:01:26.359 --> 00:01:31.120 and I want to start there because relationships take work 29 00:01:31.200 --> 00:01:33.400 and take some spice, and you've managed to keep it 30 00:01:33.480 --> 00:01:35.319 going for your life. 31 00:01:36.480 --> 00:01:38.560 Yeah for a while now. Yeah, my husband and I 32 00:01:38.599 --> 00:01:41.920 we will be celebrating our fifteenth wedding anniversary in a 33 00:01:41.959 --> 00:01:44.400 couple of weeks and been together longer than that, and 34 00:01:45.120 --> 00:01:47.959 it's sort of wild to think about that long of 35 00:01:48.000 --> 00:01:50.840 the time and that we're at this place. We've got 36 00:01:50.879 --> 00:01:55.680 three kids, like two dogs, a busy life, and we're 37 00:01:55.719 --> 00:01:58.120 having some of the best sex we've ever had. You know, 38 00:01:58.120 --> 00:02:03.200 we're fully in love, fully lest and I think it's 39 00:02:03.280 --> 00:02:07.799 just this really special time in our lives, and this 40 00:02:07.879 --> 00:02:09.919 time where I get to reflect on the fact that 41 00:02:10.000 --> 00:02:13.599 this is so possible, Like this is so possible. He 42 00:02:13.719 --> 00:02:17.080 and I are We're nothing special, you know, we're not 43 00:02:17.360 --> 00:02:21.039 unique snowflakes. I think that's important, is that this is 44 00:02:21.120 --> 00:02:26.360 really doable and I'm so excited to talk about it. Yeah. 45 00:02:26.400 --> 00:02:28.919 Did you always have that kind of relationship where it 46 00:02:28.919 --> 00:02:31.000 felt that you could talk about sex that you or 47 00:02:31.080 --> 00:02:33.039 did you get to a place where it was fading 48 00:02:33.439 --> 00:02:35.719 and you were like, well, something's going on with me? 49 00:02:36.360 --> 00:02:39.639 Yeah. We certainly had moments where we had to be 50 00:02:40.000 --> 00:02:43.240 extra intentional, like when we became parents and when life 51 00:02:43.240 --> 00:02:47.840 got more logistically challenging. But I don't have a story 52 00:02:48.000 --> 00:02:50.840 that says, oh, we got to rock bottom and we 53 00:02:50.840 --> 00:02:53.199 were about to split and then we brought it back. 54 00:02:53.319 --> 00:03:00.159 We really did intentionally center our sexual relationship and our 55 00:03:00.240 --> 00:03:04.560 intimacy throughout the course of our relationship. It's really something 56 00:03:04.639 --> 00:03:08.759 we've always communicated about in a way that I think 57 00:03:08.800 --> 00:03:11.879 we knew that that was something that was going to 58 00:03:12.000 --> 00:03:15.639 keep us a couple over the long haul and over 59 00:03:16.319 --> 00:03:20.560 all the stresses that life brought to us. We didn't 60 00:03:20.599 --> 00:03:23.639 know exactly what that looked like, but we certainly had 61 00:03:23.719 --> 00:03:27.560 this perspective early on, and then I think because we 62 00:03:27.639 --> 00:03:30.080 had that early on, we were able to continue to 63 00:03:30.120 --> 00:03:34.120 come back to that foundation and really sort of exercise 64 00:03:34.199 --> 00:03:36.759 those muscles when we needed them the most when life 65 00:03:36.759 --> 00:03:38.159 got really really challenging. 66 00:03:38.840 --> 00:03:42.520 Yeah, So what does it look like to bring in intentionality? 67 00:03:43.400 --> 00:03:46.360 So for couples out there that just let. 68 00:03:46.240 --> 00:03:49.400 It go, don't even know? Yeah, and that's so common, 69 00:03:49.719 --> 00:03:52.439 I know, and I don't. I think it's important for 70 00:03:52.520 --> 00:03:55.840 couples and particularly women not to feel like, oh gosh, 71 00:03:55.879 --> 00:03:59.919 they screwed up and feel shame or feel bad about them. 72 00:04:00.479 --> 00:04:04.360 I think it's so normal, and it's just it's it's 73 00:04:04.439 --> 00:04:06.719 just sort of what happens. It's what we're told. We're 74 00:04:06.719 --> 00:04:11.120 told that it will fade, so it really I mean, 75 00:04:11.159 --> 00:04:14.080 communication is key. I know that's like not a hot take, right, 76 00:04:14.120 --> 00:04:20.639 it's it's everywhere, but it's important. Communication about sex, about intimacy, 77 00:04:20.759 --> 00:04:25.240 about desire, about your wants outside of the bedroom, you know, 78 00:04:25.360 --> 00:04:28.120 at other points in your life. I think are so 79 00:04:28.720 --> 00:04:32.920 important to remember. Hey, you know, we don't want to 80 00:04:32.920 --> 00:04:35.319 be roommates. We don't want to just be co parents 81 00:04:35.399 --> 00:04:38.519 or co workers. We want to continue to be lovers. 82 00:04:38.639 --> 00:04:41.720 So what does this look like? How do we make 83 00:04:41.759 --> 00:04:45.360 this happen? Life is so busy, how do we how 84 00:04:45.360 --> 00:04:49.759 do we embed this so it's not just this cherry 85 00:04:49.800 --> 00:04:52.600 on top when everything else is settled and perfect, Because 86 00:04:53.199 --> 00:04:56.399 that I don't know, I haven't achieved that. Yeah, like, 87 00:04:56.480 --> 00:05:00.519 that's a magical land that if you found it, let 88 00:05:00.560 --> 00:05:02.439 me know. But I don't think it exists, So you 89 00:05:02.519 --> 00:05:05.040 have to figure out how to make it happen amid 90 00:05:05.120 --> 00:05:06.360 all of the chaos. 91 00:05:06.800 --> 00:05:09.959 And I think people think that either talking about sex 92 00:05:10.360 --> 00:05:12.279 one can bring up a lot of shame, but also 93 00:05:12.399 --> 00:05:16.439 that it can be un sexy, or that having intentional 94 00:05:16.480 --> 00:05:20.240 sex or putting it on the calendar is unsexy. And 95 00:05:21.000 --> 00:05:23.240 I don't know, I don't know if that's true. 96 00:05:24.279 --> 00:05:27.040 I mean, I don't think it's I don't think it's true. 97 00:05:27.279 --> 00:05:29.199 I think a couple of things, you know, So we 98 00:05:29.279 --> 00:05:33.319 think about spontaneity, and I think I just I'm constantly 99 00:05:33.600 --> 00:05:36.120 I feel like I'm telling people, but we never had 100 00:05:36.120 --> 00:05:39.639 spontaneous sex. I mean, whether it was when you were 101 00:05:39.759 --> 00:05:42.439 single and going to clubs or bars, or going out 102 00:05:42.480 --> 00:05:46.160 with friends, or early ener your relationship when you weren't 103 00:05:46.240 --> 00:05:48.560 before you were living together and you were going on dates. 104 00:05:49.160 --> 00:05:55.000 All of those were highly curated events with getting ready 105 00:05:55.040 --> 00:05:57.800 and dancing and drinking and meeting at the same place 106 00:05:57.879 --> 00:06:02.759 and planning for it, and down to logistics of uh, 107 00:06:03.120 --> 00:06:06.319 how how soon before a date are you masturbating or 108 00:06:06.319 --> 00:06:09.399 not masturbating. I mean, everybody was thinking so much about it, 109 00:06:09.439 --> 00:06:13.079 so so I don't know why we have the idea 110 00:06:13.199 --> 00:06:18.000 that sex was spontaneous then and somehow once you're in 111 00:06:18.040 --> 00:06:22.120 your midlife and you're organizing your sex life around your 112 00:06:22.199 --> 00:06:26.079 kids soccer games, like, that's so different. It's it's it's 113 00:06:26.120 --> 00:06:29.079 the same thing. So so I think we sort of 114 00:06:29.120 --> 00:06:33.839 fundamentally get that wrong. And then if we can recognize 115 00:06:33.839 --> 00:06:37.120 that that then it doesn't feel like such a roadblock. 116 00:06:38.439 --> 00:06:40.839 And then talking about sex, Oh my gosh, that's so fun. 117 00:06:40.879 --> 00:06:44.439 It's for play, Like that's some of the greatest type 118 00:06:44.439 --> 00:06:47.040 of foreplay is getting to getting to talk about it 119 00:06:47.639 --> 00:06:50.160 and look forward to it and anticipate it. I think 120 00:06:50.519 --> 00:06:53.439 I think talking about sex is very sexy. I think 121 00:06:53.439 --> 00:06:55.680 the people who think that talking about sex is un 122 00:06:55.680 --> 00:06:59.319 sexy is when they're only bringing it up when it's frop. 123 00:06:59.560 --> 00:07:02.600 They're only bringing it up when it's a you don't 124 00:07:02.639 --> 00:07:05.360 do this anymore? How come you? You know, it's an 125 00:07:05.399 --> 00:07:10.800 antagonistic conversation and communication as opposed to ooh what could 126 00:07:10.800 --> 00:07:12.839 we do? You know, exploratory exciting. 127 00:07:13.519 --> 00:07:16.000 I agree. I think I think having that sexy kind 128 00:07:16.000 --> 00:07:19.319 of talk gets you in the mood and has the 129 00:07:19.399 --> 00:07:23.120 imagination start flowing and the body starts getting ready. Just 130 00:07:23.160 --> 00:07:25.519 that the idea of it, and people have this idea 131 00:07:26.199 --> 00:07:29.279 I think generally speaking that sex just fades over time, 132 00:07:29.319 --> 00:07:32.519 that when you're in a long term relationship, you know 133 00:07:32.800 --> 00:07:36.600 the desire for it. And I think that, and it's 134 00:07:36.639 --> 00:07:42.399 been proven scientifically that when your body doesn't have sex, right, 135 00:07:42.480 --> 00:07:45.560 that's that's when the desire starts to fade more rather 136 00:07:45.720 --> 00:07:48.600 than when you're doing it more your body's more revped 137 00:07:48.639 --> 00:07:49.759 and practiced and so on. 138 00:07:50.279 --> 00:07:53.240 Yeah, I think there's certainly a sort of practice component 139 00:07:53.279 --> 00:07:56.480 to it, right, which is the more the sort of 140 00:07:56.800 --> 00:07:58.720 what I write about in sex, we get sex. So 141 00:07:58.920 --> 00:08:01.439 the more you do it, the better you get at it, 142 00:08:01.480 --> 00:08:04.160 the more pleasurable it is. Is so therefore, the more 143 00:08:04.199 --> 00:08:06.800 you want it and it turns into this really positive 144 00:08:06.839 --> 00:08:12.160 feedback loop. But you're right, though, there's this narrative out 145 00:08:12.199 --> 00:08:16.040 there that tells us, oh, you know, your hot, spicy 146 00:08:16.040 --> 00:08:19.079 sex life is for your twenties or for whatever, and 147 00:08:19.120 --> 00:08:22.160 it's certainly not after you become parents, certainly not after 148 00:08:22.240 --> 00:08:27.560 a decade into a relationship. And so I think what's 149 00:08:27.759 --> 00:08:32.320 unfortunate is people buy into that myth, right, and so 150 00:08:32.519 --> 00:08:36.919 then when things start to fade, they don't do anything 151 00:08:37.000 --> 00:08:39.840 about it because they think it's inevitable, you know, they 152 00:08:39.879 --> 00:08:43.799 think it's destiny, as opposed to a problem that you 153 00:08:43.799 --> 00:08:45.679 would look at and say, oh, gosh, my eyes are 154 00:08:45.679 --> 00:08:47.759 getting worse, I should go to the doctor. But when 155 00:08:47.799 --> 00:08:50.679 people say, oh, my sex life is getting worse, well, 156 00:08:50.720 --> 00:08:53.960 they think that's normal, and so they just it just 157 00:08:54.080 --> 00:08:55.240 keeps going, right. 158 00:08:55.879 --> 00:08:57.799 Yeah, And I think they just get suppressed in a 159 00:08:57.799 --> 00:09:00.600 lot of ways. So when you see women, ause you're 160 00:09:00.600 --> 00:09:03.559 a sex therapist, what do you think is the most 161 00:09:03.720 --> 00:09:07.759 common complaint that comes up or the greatest desires that 162 00:09:07.840 --> 00:09:10.120 seem to be spoken about. 163 00:09:11.840 --> 00:09:14.039 I mean, I think so many women feel like sex 164 00:09:14.120 --> 00:09:17.360 is turned into an obligation, right, It's turned into just 165 00:09:17.440 --> 00:09:20.559 one more thing that they have to do for someone 166 00:09:20.600 --> 00:09:25.799 else because they're not actually really getting anything out of it. 167 00:09:25.960 --> 00:09:28.919 They don't see it as something that's for them, It's 168 00:09:29.039 --> 00:09:31.720 only for somebody else. I think that, I mean, I'm 169 00:09:31.759 --> 00:09:34.879 missuming you here similarly, Like, I think that's just very common, 170 00:09:36.200 --> 00:09:37.159 it is, and I think. 171 00:09:37.000 --> 00:09:42.919 It's so sad that that part, that component is denied, 172 00:09:43.159 --> 00:09:45.799 especially to women, that there's just this assumption of oh, 173 00:09:45.840 --> 00:09:48.279 it's gone, I have no desire for sex, and I 174 00:09:48.320 --> 00:09:52.000 always take that as a sex and the fuel of sex, 175 00:09:52.039 --> 00:09:56.000 That sensuality is part of what keeps us young alive, 176 00:09:57.440 --> 00:09:59.960 wanting to engage in life in so many other ways. 177 00:10:00.759 --> 00:10:03.039 So I don't know if you have thoughts around that. 178 00:10:04.320 --> 00:10:07.200 Yeah, I mean absolutely. I mean I think there's this 179 00:10:07.279 --> 00:10:09.559 sort of identity shift that can happen with a lot 180 00:10:09.559 --> 00:10:13.200 of women when they either the age or in midlife, 181 00:10:13.240 --> 00:10:15.360 or potentially when they become mothers or sort of all 182 00:10:15.399 --> 00:10:19.120 of it, where where they previously were a sexual being 183 00:10:19.320 --> 00:10:23.960 and then they aged into these other brackets or categories 184 00:10:24.000 --> 00:10:27.360 and so they had to relinquish and abandon that sexual self, 185 00:10:28.320 --> 00:10:31.080 and so they don't even see it as part of 186 00:10:31.159 --> 00:10:34.519 their personhood anymore. And that is this piece like you're 187 00:10:34.559 --> 00:10:37.960 just talking about this piece of oh, but it's so 188 00:10:38.159 --> 00:10:42.399 much just a fundamental right, And I think there's so 189 00:10:42.559 --> 00:10:46.799 many women who don't ever actually feel like they were 190 00:10:46.799 --> 00:10:50.600 given permission for that right or validated to have their 191 00:10:50.600 --> 00:10:54.080 own desires or their own pleasure right. So it's easy 192 00:10:54.080 --> 00:10:55.879 to sort of set to the side because they never 193 00:10:55.879 --> 00:10:59.200 felt like it was valid and for them it was 194 00:10:59.240 --> 00:11:02.200 always performed or it was always something that was for 195 00:11:02.240 --> 00:11:02.879 somebody else. 196 00:11:03.480 --> 00:11:06.759 Yeah, and as women get older, so I've definitely hit 197 00:11:06.799 --> 00:11:11.039 that menopausal stage that all of a sudden desire goes 198 00:11:11.080 --> 00:11:13.679 to die. And I know when I was married that 199 00:11:14.759 --> 00:11:18.159 the intentionality wasn't there, and we had very different sex 200 00:11:18.279 --> 00:11:23.240 drives and so everything started to fizz and fade, and 201 00:11:23.320 --> 00:11:25.519 I thought, oh my god, I mean I was actually 202 00:11:25.759 --> 00:11:29.399 starving where I think a lot of people push it 203 00:11:29.480 --> 00:11:35.960 down and so but what I realized is, oh, yeah, no, 204 00:11:36.159 --> 00:11:41.519 my body is hungry for still wanting more in a relationship. 205 00:11:42.440 --> 00:11:45.240 Yeah. And I mean, I think it's great that you 206 00:11:45.240 --> 00:11:49.720 you I identified that because because, like like you said, 207 00:11:49.720 --> 00:11:52.639 I think a lot of women it's just fully repressed, 208 00:11:52.759 --> 00:11:56.440 like they don't even realize what they're missing, and they 209 00:11:56.440 --> 00:11:59.519 feel sort of numb to I talked to women and 210 00:11:59.559 --> 00:12:03.519 girlfriends that are just sort of they're fine, you know, 211 00:12:03.679 --> 00:12:05.960 and I think they really truly believe that they're fine, 212 00:12:06.679 --> 00:12:09.600 And certainly some are, but I think there's a majority 213 00:12:09.639 --> 00:12:13.120 of them that don't even realize what has happened to 214 00:12:13.159 --> 00:12:18.679 their identities, and they don't know where to begin to 215 00:12:19.080 --> 00:12:21.879 either bring it back it like in your case or 216 00:12:22.399 --> 00:12:25.240 or like figure it out in the first place. Sometimes 217 00:12:25.240 --> 00:12:27.480 that's happening in the first place in your mid forties 218 00:12:27.879 --> 00:12:28.279 or later. 219 00:12:29.120 --> 00:12:31.240 Yeah, I have a friend of mine and I'm gonna 220 00:12:31.720 --> 00:12:33.919 might hate me for saying this, Oh and identify it, 221 00:12:34.200 --> 00:12:36.120 says to me, you know, when she's not in the mood, 222 00:12:36.159 --> 00:12:40.320 her husband will say to her, what does he say? 223 00:12:40.559 --> 00:12:42.639 You have? Something like would it kill you to have 224 00:12:42.679 --> 00:12:47.279 an orgasm? And I love that line, And that's kind 225 00:12:47.320 --> 00:12:50.399 of how they reconnect again as life gets really busy, 226 00:12:50.519 --> 00:12:55.039 because there's also a component to taking time with yourself 227 00:12:55.559 --> 00:12:59.399 that you know, taking that that moment for touch, for 228 00:13:00.399 --> 00:13:04.559 getting juicy, getting getting the arousal flowing, which is another 229 00:13:04.639 --> 00:13:06.720 thing that I think happens. So how do you address 230 00:13:07.080 --> 00:13:11.120 having you know, these slots of time not necessarily just 231 00:13:11.159 --> 00:13:13.440 to jump in for a quick like a quickie, although 232 00:13:13.480 --> 00:13:18.639 quickies can be great's creating time also in space for 233 00:13:18.639 --> 00:13:20.480 for for just deeper intimacy. 234 00:13:21.080 --> 00:13:24.159 Yeah, sure, I mean it's hard, Like life is busy, right, 235 00:13:24.240 --> 00:13:28.159 So it's not most people don't have three hours multiple 236 00:13:28.159 --> 00:13:30.200 times a week just to lean into this and go 237 00:13:30.320 --> 00:13:32.440 nice and slow. And so I think there's a couple 238 00:13:32.519 --> 00:13:35.559 of things just living in reality of the world, which 239 00:13:35.600 --> 00:13:41.240 is that that that foreplay. You know, foreplay is all day, 240 00:13:41.279 --> 00:13:44.919 every day, right, so so that when you do actually 241 00:13:45.120 --> 00:13:49.279 enter into a sexual encounter, you're you're you're ready in 242 00:13:49.360 --> 00:13:52.519 many ways because you've built up same anticipation since the 243 00:13:52.600 --> 00:13:56.120 last time you had sex. So that's important. I also think, 244 00:13:56.159 --> 00:13:57.960 you know, we're all in our phones way too often, 245 00:13:58.000 --> 00:14:01.000 like we all actually have more time than we probably 246 00:14:01.320 --> 00:14:04.240 say we do or think we do. So it goes 247 00:14:04.279 --> 00:14:06.559 back to that intention. If this is something that you 248 00:14:06.639 --> 00:14:09.639 really care about in your relationship, like do an audit, 249 00:14:09.840 --> 00:14:14.159 think about think about where time is lost and where 250 00:14:14.200 --> 00:14:18.279 are you Have you created a story that you have 251 00:14:18.399 --> 00:14:22.399 no time even the busiest of people. I think if 252 00:14:22.440 --> 00:14:26.159 you really look and sort of and get creative with 253 00:14:26.200 --> 00:14:29.840 your time, you can find it. So I definitely challenge 254 00:14:29.879 --> 00:14:35.840 people to accurately, sort of honestly reflect on are they 255 00:14:35.879 --> 00:14:38.919 actually being intentional? You know, are you waiting till the 256 00:14:39.000 --> 00:14:41.000 end of the day when you're exhausted, Like I don't 257 00:14:41.000 --> 00:14:42.919 do that. I actually don't know a lot of people 258 00:14:42.919 --> 00:14:47.440 that are really successful in that approach. So so find 259 00:14:47.519 --> 00:14:50.080 other times of day, Find times of day when you're 260 00:14:50.120 --> 00:14:54.080 not completely drained and touched out, you know. Again, it's 261 00:14:55.080 --> 00:14:59.960 it might sound like logistics planning, but it's it can 262 00:15:00.200 --> 00:15:03.200 be fun and then it can support that really really 263 00:15:03.200 --> 00:15:05.799 playful side. I think your friend's story is funny because 264 00:15:05.799 --> 00:15:08.440 what I hear is like bringing back some levity. You know, 265 00:15:08.440 --> 00:15:10.120 would it kill you to have an organism like, let's 266 00:15:10.159 --> 00:15:12.240 remember that this is supposed to be fun and playful, 267 00:15:12.279 --> 00:15:13.840 and this doesn't need to be really fraught. 268 00:15:14.120 --> 00:15:15.799 Yeah, it doesn't need to be a chore. Again, I 269 00:15:15.840 --> 00:15:18.559 was in a room full of women, all of them 270 00:15:18.759 --> 00:15:21.960 i'm going to say, either perimenopausal or menopausal. And what 271 00:15:22.039 --> 00:15:24.879 was interesting in the room was you had women that 272 00:15:24.960 --> 00:15:28.720 were having great sex with their partners, one who was 273 00:15:28.919 --> 00:15:31.399 desiring to have great sex with their partner because her 274 00:15:31.440 --> 00:15:33.759 body was changing so much, and that's the other thing 275 00:15:33.840 --> 00:15:37.240 is sometimes you have to rediscover your body. And then 276 00:15:37.399 --> 00:15:39.840 there was another woman who just said, well, you know, 277 00:15:40.080 --> 00:15:43.600 get over it, just except that you know, this is 278 00:15:43.639 --> 00:15:46.519 no longer a part of your life, which really shocked me. 279 00:15:46.720 --> 00:15:50.480 So it was just a very different set of you know, women. 280 00:15:50.559 --> 00:15:53.720 You had a whole continuummen in that room, which was 281 00:15:53.799 --> 00:15:54.639 really interesting. 282 00:15:54.679 --> 00:15:59.519 And I think there's this idea that as we age 283 00:15:59.519 --> 00:16:01.720 that it just simply dies. And I think for those 284 00:16:01.759 --> 00:16:05.720 women that kind of disconnect themselves from it, what do 285 00:16:05.759 --> 00:16:06.639 you see with them? 286 00:16:08.039 --> 00:16:12.720 Yeah, I think that disconnection is is spot on, and 287 00:16:12.919 --> 00:16:16.600 it's that back to that abandonment. You know, we've abandoned this, 288 00:16:16.600 --> 00:16:18.279 this piece of what it I think it is to 289 00:16:18.320 --> 00:16:21.559 be to be fully human, to be fully female, to 290 00:16:21.600 --> 00:16:26.080 be to live an erotic life and using that expansive 291 00:16:25.600 --> 00:16:30.360 definition of erotic, not not just oh that's about an orgasm, 292 00:16:30.440 --> 00:16:35.840 but erotic in that sort of zest for life and women, 293 00:16:37.159 --> 00:16:40.759 I just think so many are falling into that that 294 00:16:40.840 --> 00:16:44.600 fallacy that it is inevitable for things just to slide. 295 00:16:44.679 --> 00:16:48.960 And as our bodies change, certainly hormones change. And luckily 296 00:16:49.000 --> 00:16:53.279 there's more opportunities for us now to replace hormones and 297 00:16:53.279 --> 00:16:56.399 to be advocates for our own health and to say, hey, 298 00:16:56.480 --> 00:16:58.480 you know, I still want to have a great sex life. 299 00:16:58.679 --> 00:17:02.919 Still I still want to feel good, and so how 300 00:17:02.960 --> 00:17:06.079 can your GPS and your medical doctors help you help 301 00:17:06.119 --> 00:17:10.200 support that libido side and the hormonal side that is shifting. 302 00:17:10.359 --> 00:17:15.000 And I think it's really interesting because there is this 303 00:17:15.319 --> 00:17:19.599 pocket of women in their parimen apuzzle and a puzzle 304 00:17:19.599 --> 00:17:23.920 that are having their sexual peak because I think in 305 00:17:23.960 --> 00:17:28.000 many ways they they're just like I don't care what 306 00:17:28.039 --> 00:17:32.599 the performative nature is being relinquished. They don't want to 307 00:17:32.640 --> 00:17:35.039 try so hard. They want to get to know themselves 308 00:17:35.079 --> 00:17:39.799 for the first time potentially ever. And it's really fun 309 00:17:39.920 --> 00:17:43.759 to see this growing group of women that are like, hey, 310 00:17:43.880 --> 00:17:47.599 this is amazing, and I'm middle age and beyond and 311 00:17:47.640 --> 00:17:48.640 it only gets better. 312 00:17:49.079 --> 00:17:51.759 I agree, because there's something that happens around like not 313 00:17:51.920 --> 00:17:54.839 having children anymore that are in the home, you all 314 00:17:54.920 --> 00:17:58.440 of a sudden have freedom and to be able to 315 00:17:58.480 --> 00:18:03.000 relearn your body and explore in ways. So you brought 316 00:18:03.079 --> 00:18:06.559 up a great topic, which is having an erotic life 317 00:18:07.160 --> 00:18:10.759 or to rediscovering the erotic and the aarrows, and I'd 318 00:18:10.839 --> 00:18:13.160 love you to expand on what that looks like. 319 00:18:13.960 --> 00:18:17.400 Yeah, I think you know, it's different for everyone, but 320 00:18:17.880 --> 00:18:22.319 there's there's just some really beautiful ways of thinking about 321 00:18:23.279 --> 00:18:27.039 our life. And it's not just oh, what makes me 322 00:18:27.079 --> 00:18:29.920 happy or what doesn't from this sort of very cognitive space, 323 00:18:30.039 --> 00:18:32.640 right like I like that, I don't like that, I 324 00:18:32.839 --> 00:18:35.400 like to hike. I don't you know. But it's it's 325 00:18:35.519 --> 00:18:41.480 more of this full body, expansive embracing of what life 326 00:18:41.559 --> 00:18:46.119 has to offer, and that includes sexual but it includes food, 327 00:18:46.240 --> 00:18:48.440 and it includes you know, what we do throughout the 328 00:18:48.480 --> 00:18:50.880 day and how we think and how we interact and 329 00:18:51.920 --> 00:18:55.279 this sort of I think it's really hard to describe. 330 00:18:55.319 --> 00:18:58.799 I mean, I'm curious to hear how you define it. 331 00:18:58.400 --> 00:19:03.319 But it is a full it's a full life approach 332 00:19:03.720 --> 00:19:08.599 really that says, I am this erotic being in and 333 00:19:08.599 --> 00:19:12.519 out of the bedroom, and I will embrace life with 334 00:19:12.559 --> 00:19:16.119 a with the full expansiveness of all all of my components. 335 00:19:16.200 --> 00:19:17.920 That's that's really how I feel about it. 336 00:19:18.599 --> 00:19:20.559 Yeah, I think that for me, there there's this a 337 00:19:20.599 --> 00:19:24.480 liveness component where everything is alive within the body and 338 00:19:24.519 --> 00:19:27.839 it's very embodied. So the performance goes away and there's 339 00:19:27.839 --> 00:19:31.880 this connection between I would consider even that there's this 340 00:19:32.039 --> 00:19:36.079 intimacy within yourself and then this created intimacy with the world. 341 00:19:36.720 --> 00:19:39.799 So I love that someone said, oh, you can flirt 342 00:19:39.880 --> 00:19:43.160 with a flower, you can flirt with a child. You know, 343 00:19:43.240 --> 00:19:45.720 it has nothing to do with sex as we think 344 00:19:45.759 --> 00:19:50.400 of it. It's more of that fuel that drives this. Uh. 345 00:19:50.559 --> 00:19:52.680 I mean, for me, it's a deliciousness in life and 346 00:19:52.920 --> 00:19:56.319 brings out a lot of creativity. And idea. 347 00:19:56.400 --> 00:20:01.119 Yeah, yeah, there's you know is Sarah Para. She's quoted 348 00:20:01.119 --> 00:20:03.079 so much, but she has all these wonderful things. And 349 00:20:03.119 --> 00:20:07.000 she was talking, i'm sure you know, talking about the 350 00:20:07.440 --> 00:20:10.920 folks who survived after the Holocaust, and she talked about 351 00:20:10.920 --> 00:20:14.799 the people who who lived and the people who didn't die, 352 00:20:15.039 --> 00:20:18.759 and she described the difference between those two groups of 353 00:20:18.799 --> 00:20:22.480 individuals as people who were able to rediscover their erotic 354 00:20:22.559 --> 00:20:25.519 selves and those who weren't. So if they didn't, yes, 355 00:20:25.599 --> 00:20:28.599 they didn't die, but they weren't fully alive. So it 356 00:20:28.680 --> 00:20:33.960 is just it is just this aliveness. Yeah, as you 357 00:20:34.119 --> 00:20:38.680 said that, so many women, I mean, I talk with 358 00:20:38.799 --> 00:20:42.839 I was just talking to a girlfriend recently whose mid 359 00:20:42.920 --> 00:20:46.759 forties and kids are teens and the marriage is really 360 00:20:46.799 --> 00:20:53.440 on the rocks. And she I lived with her when 361 00:20:53.440 --> 00:20:55.640 we were in our twenties, and she was this alive 362 00:20:55.799 --> 00:21:00.079 person and I saw her and I thought, oh, she 363 00:20:59.839 --> 00:21:02.839 she's just not you know, she just appeared to be 364 00:21:02.960 --> 00:21:06.000 the shell. She was sort of going through the motions 365 00:21:06.000 --> 00:21:07.839 and I could see her and she was talking and 366 00:21:07.880 --> 00:21:09.839 she was walking, and she was going through the emotions. 367 00:21:09.880 --> 00:21:14.799 But she just I felt like she was gone. And 368 00:21:14.839 --> 00:21:16.559 I think a lot of women feel that way. 369 00:21:17.319 --> 00:21:19.640 Yeah, I would say that as well, that there's something 370 00:21:19.680 --> 00:21:21.799 that happens, there's kind of a fork in the road. 371 00:21:21.880 --> 00:21:25.519 We get these opportunities in life, and I've seen people 372 00:21:25.599 --> 00:21:27.240 that just get shut down. And I think a lot 373 00:21:27.279 --> 00:21:30.519 of it has to do with the should factor, Right, 374 00:21:30.559 --> 00:21:34.960 I shouldn't be living life this way. This is my obligation, 375 00:21:35.039 --> 00:21:38.440 this is my this is what life is, as opposed 376 00:21:38.480 --> 00:21:41.799 to what can life be? How can I create it 377 00:21:41.839 --> 00:21:45.640 for myself instead of answering to the voices in my head, 378 00:21:46.759 --> 00:21:49.440 my family, my society, my partner, whatever it is. 379 00:21:50.200 --> 00:21:53.480 Yes, well, and I think with that should too. There's 380 00:21:53.559 --> 00:21:56.640 so many women who who sort of wake up and 381 00:21:56.680 --> 00:21:58.640 they go, Okay, well, I have the husband, I have 382 00:21:58.759 --> 00:22:01.720 the two kids, have the dog, I have the house, 383 00:22:01.799 --> 00:22:04.599 the picket fence, I have the whole dream that I 384 00:22:04.759 --> 00:22:08.119 envisioned for the last forty years. And here I am 385 00:22:09.119 --> 00:22:15.279 and I'm not that happy. But you look around and everybody, 386 00:22:15.359 --> 00:22:18.759 I think the message is just like, oh, but be grateful, 387 00:22:18.960 --> 00:22:22.160 Like just you should be grateful because you have everything 388 00:22:22.200 --> 00:22:26.720 you wanted, which I you know, gratitude is a beautiful thing. 389 00:22:26.759 --> 00:22:28.799 But when I hear that messaging, I just think It 390 00:22:28.920 --> 00:22:31.200 is a way to tell women to shut up and 391 00:22:31.240 --> 00:22:34.920 to settle and to not actually go for what they want. 392 00:22:35.599 --> 00:22:39.920 And I think that messaging gets gets, you know, shoved 393 00:22:40.000 --> 00:22:42.000 at women that they should just be happy for what 394 00:22:42.039 --> 00:22:42.359 they have. 395 00:22:43.200 --> 00:22:45.480 Yeah, And I can really speak to that because that's 396 00:22:45.759 --> 00:22:48.720 that was definitely part of my journey. I had everything, 397 00:22:49.319 --> 00:22:52.039 and I had a loving wife, I had a really 398 00:22:52.079 --> 00:22:55.200 good life, and I just thought, I have to be grateful. 399 00:22:55.240 --> 00:22:58.359 I have to be grateful. And I found myself continually 400 00:22:58.559 --> 00:23:02.279 unhappy in my life and so thought, oh god, I 401 00:23:02.400 --> 00:23:04.960