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Speaker 1: You're listening to the paranlel UK Radio network and this

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is six Degrees of John Keel. Hello and welcome to

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the Six Degrees of John Keele podcast. I'm your host

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Barbara Fisher. Tonight, I'm welcoming Deb Cobble. She is an

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very interesting person. She wrote the book Extraordinary Contact Life

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Beyond Intruders, and that title Intruders might joggle some people's

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memories or you know, catch your attention. Somewhere. You were

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known as Kathy Davis, weren't you, Yes, yes, So this

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is this lady is the real life, honest to god

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name of Kathy Davis. And I'm excited to hear from

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her and talk with her tonight because if there's something strange,

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she knows something about it, has experienced it, or knows

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somebody who has. Thank you so much for coming on

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to talk with me, Deb.

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Speaker 2: And thank you for asking, Barbara. I appreciate it.

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Speaker 1: I just finished reading your book, and of course I

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did read Intruders, but that was like, I don't know,

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twenty years ago. More than that, it was because I

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read it when it came out, and then I read

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it again like about fifteen or twenty years ago. Uh,

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and it's really interesting to read your book and and

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written in your words of the things that you experienced

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and how you experienced them. And one of the things

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that is just is just like a rich vein of

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ore in the middle of your of your book, just

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winding through every chapter, is the the kinds of experiences

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that come with UFO contact of some sort. There's all

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of the psychic stuff, there's uh, paranormal stuff, there's poltergeist stuff,

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you name it, it's in there. And as I was reading it,

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I was like, oh, well, hmm uh that's uh wow,

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uh spiders, huh okay, uh yeah. And what happened was

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I was remembering a lot of stuff from generally in

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my case it was around teenagerhood, you know, ten, eleven,

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twelve and up, but so many of them you would

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have the exact description of what I had seen or experienced,

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and I was just kind of like, but I'm not

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an abductee, am I. Okay? Well I want to talk

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with her, so here we are. Here we are, And

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I wanted to ask you when did your poltergeist, psychic

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strange things that didn't look like aliens but are still

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strange things start happening for you.

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Speaker 2: It's been happening most of all my life. I mean

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I can remember. Let's see, well, my family would talk

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about it, and they always talked about weird stuff happening

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around the house, even when I was really young and

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didn't understand it, like it was just normal. And so

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I had grew up assuming that that sort of thing

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happened to everybody. My sister is she's eleven years older

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than me and my oldest sister, and you know, she

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had a UFO siding back in nineteen sixty five that

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the family talked about. You know, I heard the family

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talking about it for years, grew up and I just

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assumed that sort of thing happened to everyone, because you know,

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my family talked about it. My mother always was interested

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in psychic things. I don't know, I'm probably dating myself,

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but she used to like to read books by Sylvia

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Brown but before her Jeene Dixon. We have this running joke,

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you know that I still tell that no one gets

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anymore that says, what do I look like Jeane Dixon?

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You know, it used to work back in the nineties,

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but now when I said, people look at me like,

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who's that? But anyway, you know, so my mom was

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interested in things like that. And my father, his mother

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always told everyone he was psychic when he was a

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little kid. So, I mean, I just grew up around it,

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and I always just assumed it was normal. My little sister,

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by the time she was able to verbally talk, you know,

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where you get to understand her, she was telling my

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mom that she saw colors around people's heads, and she

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talked to dead people, you know. And still to this

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day she's sixty years old and she still talks to

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dead people, you know. Yeah, And this was before when June. Now,

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I had a couple of God, there's so much squirrel

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squirrel I had.

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Speaker 1: We chased squirrels on this podcast. It's all right, don't

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worry about it.

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Speaker 2: I had when I was a teenager, I had an

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experience with two other girls in a car out in

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the country. We saw a light in the sky that

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ended up on the ground, and I had actually the

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gal who was driving actually had more memory of it

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than I did. And then when I was a young

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married woman, not that long after because I got married,

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you know, at eighteen, I had an event where these

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two little gray guys came in my bedroom with the

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black box, and you know, when I first saw them,

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I was terrified, but immediately was not scared anymore. Soon

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as I saw the box, I just calmed down. And

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I don't know just when I was in when I

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started going to elementary school and I got to the

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age where I could start talking to other kids, and

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I quickly realized that not everybody's family sees ghosts or

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horrors or things like that, And you know, I just

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quit talking about it because I wanted to be normal

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and I wanted to have friends, you know, But it

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never stopped. I remember a time my mom, my sister,

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and I sitting at the kitchen table. At the time,

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all of us smoked, and we were sitting there drinking

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coffee and having a cigarette one of those great big

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glass amber ash trays, you know, the one's weigh like

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ten pounds on the table and I reached over to

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flip my ash off my cigarette, and when I did,

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the ash tray snapped in half and split apart. One

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side slid to one side of the table, one side

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slid to the other, and all the mess and ashes

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sat in the middle. And here's three different reactions. My mom,

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who apparently is okay with this sort of stuff. She's like,

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oh my god, that ashtray was expensive, and my yeah,

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that's what her thinking. My thinking was, oh my god,

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that's so cool. Did I do that? And my sister's

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thinking was hell with that, I'm out of here, and

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she took a person went home. So three different reactions

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in the same family, you know. I remember one time

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we were sitting at the table again and my mom

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had some Indian corn on the door. It was fall

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and you know, multi colored corn on the door, and

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it started rattling. The corn. You could hear it scrapping

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on the door and shaking back and forth. And we

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all looked up and there was no one there, but

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the corn was moving. And again my sister grabs her

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purse and she's like, see you, she's out here. Yeah.

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So but I mean, when that sort of stuff happens

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to you all the time and you grow up around it,

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you kind of get immune to it after a while,

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and I did. There were a lot of times I

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think I just would notice little things and think of whatever,

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you know, I mean, because it happened so much. But

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then after the June thirtieth, nineteen eighty three thing that

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happened that Bud wrote about in Intruders. It seems like

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all of that stuff, that stuff that was already there

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kind of exploded. It's like it magnified. And to the

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nth time, you know, we had like what you would

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call poltergeist activity on an almost day basis for a

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year afterwards. Not not only was not only was bizarre

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stuff going on with me, but in the house too,

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you know, I think it's in the book I was.

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I was downstairs at one point, I was downstairs folding laundry.

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It might have been after I already moved out, but

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I can't remember. All I know was down in mom's

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house folding laundry in the basement because it was a

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try level and there was a TV down there was

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watching TV. The baby was in his playpen, and the laundry,

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of course was down in the basement. And I heard

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I was at home alone, but I suddenly heard a

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bunch of footsteps all through the house, like little footsteps,

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like children running around everywhere. I heard the stereo turn

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it on and off. I heard the I heard noise

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in the kitchen, and sorry, get distracted here. I heard

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noise in the kitchen, and then the baby starts crying

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and he wants a bottle. It's time for him to eat,

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and I'm like, oh my god, what do you do it?

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Why are you crying? I finally had to make my

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way up the stairs slowly to the kitchen to open

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the refrigerator to grab the bottle. And when I did,

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I opened up the refrigerator and like lids off of

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the tupperware, bulls and butter bowls and everything. Oh, I

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flew everywhere. So I grabbed the bottle and ran back downstairs.

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At one point I think I called my sister because

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I was so afraid. And while I was on the

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it was either my sister or my mom, whoever I

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was on the phone with. I heard the extension upstairs

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pick up, yeah, you know, on the lane. And at

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that point it was either my mom or my sister.

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Said call the police. Call the police right now. Hang

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up and call the police. And I said if I can't,

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if they're on the extension, I can't hang up, and

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she said, I'll call them, and she hung up. The

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police came out. They were everywhere. I mean, they pulled

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up in the front, they pulled up in the back,

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they had their guns. They went through the whole house.

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They even went in the attic, they went to the

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back and there was nobody there, and the door inside

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was still locked with the chain lock on the back.

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Oh so yeah, just you know, light bulbs would explode

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and drop down out of hanging lamps and then shoot

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across the room. And it was it wasn't just happening

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around me, It was happening to everybody in the family.

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And strangely enough, even when we moved, like when I

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moved out of that house, it came. The weirdness came

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with me. When my sister moved it, you know, it

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went with her. So it wasn't the property, it was

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us that this was attached to her going with you know. Yeah,

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And like I said, I kind of connected it with

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the UFO stuff because it seemed like it intensified so

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much after the June third, eighty three incident. It got

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stronger and different, and I started to change also at

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that point. So and then later I became like, when

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something scares me, it's my tendency to want to learn

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as much about it as I can. And as I

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told you before, when the when the event of June

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thirty eighty three, that Bud wrote about and intruders happened.

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One of the first things I did was try to

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figure out what caused it, to try to rule out

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and you know, anything and find a rational explanation for it,

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because what little bits and pieces of memory I had,

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I couldn't accept it didn't fit in my world and

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just didn't this stuff didn't happen like that, you know,

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because we were beyond the ghost stuff at that point.

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Speaker 1: Oh yeah, So.

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Speaker 2: And that wasn't working. Like like I told you, I

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could find plenty of people tell me what it wasn't,

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but I couldn't find anybody that was bold enough to

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tell me what it might be or what it was,

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you know. And I had read Bud Hopkins book. I

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tried to read Bud Hopkins book Missing Time, couldn't. I've

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never finished it to this day. And in the back

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of that book there was a place where you could

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write to him if you thought you'd had an experience

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like that. So I went back to the library and

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got the address out of the book, and I wrote him,

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told him about the June thirty incident, also through my

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older sister under the bus, and told him about her

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nineteen sixty five experience that she had with the UFO

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in the church parking lot, and he, I don't know.

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It was a month, maybe six weeks or so later

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I heard from him again, back again, and he that

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was when the investigation began, you know. And at that

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point I was having a nervous breakdown, I think, but

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I was still desperately trying to find what was going on. Now.

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As I worked with Bud and my family worked with

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Bud through the following three years, I realized that there

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was a lot I didn't know about this whole UFO thing.

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I mean, not other than close Encounters the third kind

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and the Barney and Betty Hill movie Interrupted Journey, you know,

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and missing time. I didn't have a lot of exposure

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to that stuff. Most of it was the paranormal side,

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the poultruregeist and the mind you know, being psychic and

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moving things with your mind and reading cards down and

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all that stuff. It wasn't the UFO stuff. So I

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figured out pretty quickly that knowledge is power, and the

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more I knew about something, the less afraid I was.

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So I started to learn as much as I could.

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But in the beginning, Bud didn't want me to read

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books about UFO stuff or abduction stuff. He wanted me

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to stay away from all of that because he didn't

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want the possibility of something cut leaking into my subconscious,

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you know, and then coming out later. He wanted me

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to stay the way I was, so I honored that

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for the longest time. But once I got the okay

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from him, I started to try to learn as much

241
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about it as I could, and about other people's experiences,

242
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And I ended up becoming an investigator from moof On,

243
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Indiana for several years, and I learned a whole bunch.

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I also learned that there was a lot of people

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out there like me. And I also learned that and

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in the course of going with Bud around when he

247
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did lectures about Intruders, you know, when the book first

248
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came out, and I did go with him, and I

249
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met lots and lots of people like me. I also

250
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discovered that they too had this whole paranormal side that

251
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none of the UFO researchers were really wanting to talk about.

252
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Even Bud wasn't completely comfortable talking about some of this,

253
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you know, in Intruders or with you know, in the

254
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in the conferences. He might brush brush by it a

255
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little bit just to but I found that when I'm

256
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the more people that I met like me, the more.

257
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This is a part of it, and the changes are

258
00:16:22,799 --> 00:16:25,120
a part of it. The Polder Guy's activity that happened

259
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around me and my family and the things that were

260
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happening to me, Like the time that I was cleaning

261
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helping my sister clean my mom's cabinets. We were refinishing

262
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them and cleaning the brass handles and stuff up for

263
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their anniversary gift. I was just a teenager at the time,

264
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but I was pissed off because my sister was making

265
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me do it and I didn't want to. And so

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I remember being out in the driveway with a scrub

267
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brush and a bucket of soapy water and some crap

268
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that I had to rub on these brass handles to

269
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get them clean. And I'm just rubbing and rubbing and rubbing,

270
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and my sister comes out and sticks her hands in

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the bucket and pulls out all these handles I'd already cleaned,

272
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and she's like, what the hell did you do? And

273
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I'm like, what are you talking about? And all these

274
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brass handles were twisted up. Oh I did not twist them,

275
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and we couldn't twist them back. We ended up having

276
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to go buy new handles. She's somehow that I did that.

277
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I mean, I don't know how I did, and I

278
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don't remember doing it because I was just pissed and

279
00:17:25,599 --> 00:17:28,880
scrubbing them in the water. But I mean things like this.

280
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But guess what. Other people who've seen UFOs had contact

281
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with something like me, have reported that too. I didn't

282
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know it at the time, but I found out later.

283
00:17:41,119 --> 00:17:48,359
Other people have reported heightened psychic awareness, heightened abilities, you know, intuition,

284
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strange electrical things happen around them. I mean, yeah, it's

285
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part of it. And for so many, so many years

286
00:17:58,279 --> 00:18:02,640
back in the a's and nine these the UFO research

287
00:18:03,079 --> 00:18:06,400
community was all nuts and bolts. Hell, they did any

288
00:18:06,440 --> 00:18:09,079
want to talk to you if you saw a creature,

289
00:18:09,400 --> 00:18:12,400
if you became like a C four or five, they're like, okay, no,

290
00:18:12,640 --> 00:18:16,640
thanks by, have a nice day, or they are they

291
00:18:16,960 --> 00:18:19,279
or yes, they just leave it out. But it did.

292
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It's such an injustice because because it is a part

293
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of it, it is a part of us, and it's

294
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you know, I dare say, this is my opinion. Maybe

295
00:18:30,920 --> 00:18:35,920
it's part of the point. I don't know, uh, or

296
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it was maybe it's either I always said, was I

297
00:18:39,400 --> 00:18:44,279
like this therefore attracted this attention? Was it generational? Was

298
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my my entire family line of people like this? Or

299
00:18:47,759 --> 00:18:52,319
did something they do do to you to change something

300
00:18:52,319 --> 00:18:56,200
that made me like this? You know? But for whatever reason,

301
00:18:56,799 --> 00:19:01,160
these two subjects, this pair of normal side in the

302
00:19:01,319 --> 00:19:05,400
UFO side, go hand in hand. I mean, the only

303
00:19:05,440 --> 00:19:08,119
common denominator I've been able to find in thirty years

304
00:19:08,119 --> 00:19:13,039
of meeting people has been the actual person who experienced it.

305
00:19:13,039 --> 00:19:18,880
We're all similar types of people, you know, intellectually and

306
00:19:19,480 --> 00:19:24,960
psychically and spiritually. You know. Yeah, anyway, it's just weird. Yeah,

307
00:19:24,960 --> 00:19:26,799
I've got a like I said, I have a corner

308
00:19:26,920 --> 00:19:31,519
koupia of weirdness about my entire life. I've you know,

309
00:19:32,000 --> 00:19:36,880
We've had one time we woke up and my kids'

310
00:19:37,039 --> 00:19:41,839
room was absolutely full of bees, hundreds of bees hanging

311
00:19:41,839 --> 00:19:44,480
off the drapes, hanging off the walls, hanging off the

312
00:19:44,559 --> 00:19:47,799
light fixtures. But they were all so lethargic you could

313
00:19:47,799 --> 00:19:50,000
scoop them up with your hands and they barely move,

314
00:19:50,119 --> 00:19:53,039
let alone stinging, not sting you. You know, we swept

315
00:19:53,039 --> 00:19:58,039
them up with a shop back and took them outside,

316
00:19:58,400 --> 00:20:00,680
and we never could figure out how they even got

317
00:20:00,680 --> 00:20:04,039
in that room because there wasn't any attic exit at

318
00:20:04,039 --> 00:20:08,559
our entrance store there, and the windows had been painted

319
00:20:08,599 --> 00:20:12,839
shut by my father, who was yeah, he was in

320
00:20:12,880 --> 00:20:15,359
trouble by it already, by my mom. They hadn't gotten

321
00:20:15,400 --> 00:20:17,839
it fixed yet, but you know, the windows were painted shut.

322
00:20:17,880 --> 00:20:21,319
There was nowhere these things could get him from the

323
00:20:21,519 --> 00:20:26,400
and the house was a sandstone try level. It was

324
00:20:26,440 --> 00:20:34,960
a stone house with plaster walls, so we couldn't figure

325
00:20:35,000 --> 00:20:38,640
out where they came from. And then we've had things

326
00:20:38,680 --> 00:20:41,839
like I think the word is a ports where things

327
00:20:41,960 --> 00:20:44,759
just disappear and reappear in weird places.

328
00:20:45,000 --> 00:20:47,759
Speaker 1: Yep. Yeah, that that's happened all my life.

329
00:20:48,519 --> 00:20:51,200
Speaker 2: And that's happened all my life too, with the multitude

330
00:20:51,240 --> 00:20:54,119
of things, even going far back as to my early teens,

331
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you know, eleven, twelve, thirteen, but one in particular that

332
00:21:00,440 --> 00:21:03,960
stood out because I completely destroyed a bedroom carpet over

333
00:21:04,000 --> 00:21:07,039
It was I was living with my parents at the time,

334
00:21:07,359 --> 00:21:09,799
and I believe it was after the June thirty eighty

335
00:21:09,799 --> 00:21:13,480
three incident. My boyfriend had given me a promised ring

336
00:21:14,039 --> 00:21:15,599
and we got in a fight and I got pissed

337
00:21:15,599 --> 00:21:17,279
off at him, so I took the ring off and

338
00:21:17,319 --> 00:21:19,039
I put it on the night stand next to my

339
00:21:19,079 --> 00:21:21,200
bed and went to sleep. When I got up the

340
00:21:21,240 --> 00:21:23,720
next morning, I felt naked. I reached over to put

341
00:21:23,720 --> 00:21:26,160
my ring back on, and it was gone. And I

342
00:21:26,200 --> 00:21:29,640
tore that room up. For three days, I looked everywhere

343
00:21:29,640 --> 00:21:32,160
in that house for that ring and couldn't find it anywhere.

344
00:21:32,920 --> 00:21:34,279
And like on the third day, I was in my

345
00:21:34,400 --> 00:21:37,440
kids's room, which was the room next to mine, vacuuming

346
00:21:37,720 --> 00:21:42,640
and cleaning, and some overwhelming urge something kept telling me

347
00:21:42,720 --> 00:21:46,039
that ring is in this room because be careful. When

348
00:21:46,920 --> 00:21:48,519
I'm thinking to myself, I need to be careful when

349
00:21:48,559 --> 00:21:50,319
I run the swep, I'm gonna sweep this ring up,

350
00:21:50,319 --> 00:21:53,319
and it's in here. It's in the room on the floor.

351
00:21:54,599 --> 00:21:58,119
So I'm I'm all over the floor trying to find

352
00:21:58,160 --> 00:22:00,680
this ring, can't find it. I know it's here. Then

353
00:22:00,720 --> 00:22:04,000
I start moving the beds over and I pulled the

354
00:22:04,119 --> 00:22:06,160
side of the carpeting up off the tax strip on

355
00:22:06,160 --> 00:22:09,640
one side that was under Casey's bed. Slipped my hand

356
00:22:09,720 --> 00:22:11,920
up under there where the padding was, and I didn't

357
00:22:12,119 --> 00:22:14,799
didn't feel anything, but it kept telling me go further,

358
00:22:14,880 --> 00:22:17,880
go further, go further, you'll find it. And I had

359
00:22:17,920 --> 00:22:21,480
that carpet just about almost tore up that whole wall

360
00:22:21,759 --> 00:22:26,039
on that side, and under the padding a little bit

361
00:22:26,559 --> 00:22:29,400
almost the middle of the room. It was a small room,

362
00:22:29,400 --> 00:22:32,279
but almost the middle of room there was that ring

363
00:22:32,359 --> 00:22:35,400
under the carpeting and under the padding, which was staple

364
00:22:35,480 --> 00:22:36,200
to the wood floor.

365
00:22:36,680 --> 00:22:38,839
Speaker 1: Yeah, because yeah, yeah.

366
00:22:39,559 --> 00:22:42,119
Speaker 2: In the midt, like near the end of me ripping

367
00:22:42,200 --> 00:22:44,119
up the padding, my mom comes in and she's like,

368
00:22:44,160 --> 00:22:47,440
what in the hell are you doing? And she was

369
00:22:47,599 --> 00:22:50,960
absolutely furious. And it was right about that time that

370
00:22:51,000 --> 00:22:53,440
I got ahold of the ring and I whipped my

371
00:22:53,480 --> 00:22:56,160
hand out from my look at this and she my

372
00:22:56,200 --> 00:22:59,599
mom's mouth hit the floor. She's like what because she

373
00:22:59,640 --> 00:23:02,319
knew that I'd lost this ring, and she goes, where

374
00:23:02,440 --> 00:23:04,359
was that? Where was that ring? And I said it

375
00:23:04,400 --> 00:23:05,559
was under the padding.

376
00:23:06,279 --> 00:23:06,960
Speaker 1: Oh my god.

377
00:23:07,039 --> 00:23:09,039
Speaker 2: It's like, how do you? First of all, how did

378
00:23:09,039 --> 00:23:10,759
it get there? And second of all, how did I know?

379
00:23:13,079 --> 00:23:17,559
You know? But it's weird. This is my life. This

380
00:23:17,640 --> 00:23:21,400
has been that I've had weird stuff like this happened

381
00:23:21,480 --> 00:23:25,279
to me my whole life. Thank God. Early on I

382
00:23:25,400 --> 00:23:29,359
decided to start writing it down. And I've been keeping

383
00:23:29,400 --> 00:23:34,680
a journal diary like since well. I did it as

384
00:23:34,720 --> 00:23:36,880
a teenager for a while, you know, and then I

385
00:23:36,920 --> 00:23:38,839
got I got bored with it after a while, and

386
00:23:38,839 --> 00:23:40,519
then I had little kids, and I started it back

387
00:23:40,559 --> 00:23:45,920
up again roun the June Brown the early eighties. I

388
00:23:45,960 --> 00:23:49,000
started it back up again, started writing down every little

389
00:23:49,039 --> 00:23:49,519
weird thing.

390
00:23:50,960 --> 00:23:51,160
Speaker 3: Now.

391
00:23:52,559 --> 00:23:56,839
Speaker 2: Like I said before, I tried very hard to try

392
00:23:56,960 --> 00:24:00,240
to be skeptical, even of my own stuff. And I

393
00:24:00,279 --> 00:24:04,799
really feel like nobody really knows the whole answers to everything.

394
00:24:05,160 --> 00:24:08,880
I mean, we have our we have our educated guesses

395
00:24:09,039 --> 00:24:11,839
and our you know, our opinions, but as far as

396
00:24:12,039 --> 00:24:17,279
actual factual stuff goes, hell, I got a whole lifetime

397
00:24:17,319 --> 00:24:19,720
worth the stuff that I'm not quite sure what it

398
00:24:19,720 --> 00:24:22,200
all means. I have my own theories and I have

399
00:24:22,279 --> 00:24:24,519
my own hunches. I have what feels right to me

400
00:24:24,559 --> 00:24:28,880
and my own opinions, but that's all they are. But

401
00:24:28,920 --> 00:24:32,319
I have tried very very hard not to fall down

402
00:24:32,400 --> 00:24:36,319
that rabbit hole. Uh oh, yeah, you know, it's so

403
00:24:36,480 --> 00:24:38,839
easy when you're somebody like me who's had this kind

404
00:24:38,880 --> 00:24:43,039
of life, it's really easy to blame every weird little

405
00:24:43,079 --> 00:24:47,640
thing on something woo wooee and paranormal and get all

406
00:24:47,640 --> 00:24:51,079
whipped up about it and get all scared and everything else.

407
00:24:51,720 --> 00:24:54,759
And I didn't have time for that. I was a

408
00:24:54,799 --> 00:24:57,279
single mom at that point, trying to raise two kids,

409
00:24:57,279 --> 00:24:59,920
and I had to stay sane because these boys needed

410
00:25:00,200 --> 00:25:02,400
you know what I mean. Yeah, So I did everything

411
00:25:02,440 --> 00:25:05,759
in my power to try to find the rational explanation.

412
00:25:06,119 --> 00:25:09,880
And then again as an investigator of UFO reports and

413
00:25:10,119 --> 00:25:13,200
of paranormal reports, I did the same thing. I've always

414
00:25:13,279 --> 00:25:16,720
tried to find the rational explanation, and you know, ninety

415
00:25:16,759 --> 00:25:19,640
five percent of the time I could. Yeah, not only

416
00:25:19,680 --> 00:25:22,720
with my own stuff, but other people's as well. It's

417
00:25:22,759 --> 00:25:26,079
that five percent that got my panties in a twist,

418
00:25:27,640 --> 00:25:30,920
ended up being ended up being you know, a couple

419
00:25:31,000 --> 00:25:36,680
of books. But I have also figured out, you know.

420
00:25:36,720 --> 00:25:36,960
Speaker 3: That.

421
00:25:40,119 --> 00:25:44,440
Speaker 2: People get distracted by daily life. Daily life is so distracted, distracting.

422
00:25:45,000 --> 00:25:48,039
And I feel like for every person out there like me,

423
00:25:48,200 --> 00:25:51,240
who is out there telling our weird stories and flying

424
00:25:51,279 --> 00:25:55,519
our freak flag for the world to see, there's probably

425
00:25:55,759 --> 00:25:59,920
twenty five thousand other people that are listening to me

426
00:26:00,279 --> 00:26:04,119
talk and tell my stories and thinking, well, I remember

427
00:26:04,839 --> 00:26:07,200
something like this or this happened or that happened, but

428
00:26:07,240 --> 00:26:10,039
they're never going to tell anybody. Yeah, So I've come

429
00:26:10,079 --> 00:26:12,880
to the conclusion at the age of sixty four that

430
00:26:12,960 --> 00:26:15,519
if you don't have a story, whether you tell it

431
00:26:15,640 --> 00:26:18,640
or not, then you ain't paying attention. Because life is

432
00:26:18,759 --> 00:26:21,640
just weird and we live in a weird, weird place

433
00:26:22,119 --> 00:26:29,079
and we do and human beings are incredibly we're we

434
00:26:29,160 --> 00:26:32,720
I don't think we fully remember what we're capable of,

435
00:26:32,960 --> 00:26:38,359
you know, and things just happen all around us. So yeah,

436
00:26:38,680 --> 00:26:39,799
so anyway, that's my.

437
00:26:39,920 --> 00:26:46,200
Speaker 1: Story, and that's why I started this podcast because I

438
00:26:46,200 --> 00:26:49,119
I saw an uptick in weird in reports of weird

439
00:26:49,160 --> 00:26:55,880
things in nine in twenty nineteen, and that was right

440
00:26:55,960 --> 00:26:59,839
before the pandemic, and I was like, what is going

441
00:26:59,920 --> 00:27:04,119
on on? And my daughter MORGANA and a bunch of

442
00:27:04,160 --> 00:27:08,559
my friends who all you know, noticed weird stuff. We

443
00:27:08,559 --> 00:27:11,680
were all having weird stuff happening. People were reporting stuff

444
00:27:11,720 --> 00:27:15,359
on the internet, and we were just like, you know,

445
00:27:15,400 --> 00:27:19,240
what's going on? And I had a friend who had

446
00:27:19,440 --> 00:27:23,119
urged me for years to do a podcast because she said,

447
00:27:23,160 --> 00:27:25,319
you know, you've got all of this weird stuff that's

448
00:27:25,319 --> 00:27:27,880
happened to you should tell those stories, and I said, well,

449
00:27:29,160 --> 00:27:32,839
I mean, it's not going to hurt anything. Now, you know,

450
00:27:33,000 --> 00:27:38,000
the the ex husband is no longer vindictively stalking me,

451
00:27:38,759 --> 00:27:43,440
and you know, yeah it is. And you know my

452
00:27:43,559 --> 00:27:47,039
family has calmed down or we don't talk or whatever,

453
00:27:47,319 --> 00:27:51,279
and so yeah, I could probably do that. And so

454
00:27:52,359 --> 00:27:57,319
when I started the podcast, I realized how many people

455
00:27:58,279 --> 00:28:03,440
were out there who had weird stuff happen fairly often,

456
00:28:03,920 --> 00:28:05,880
but they had no one to talk about it with.

457
00:28:07,319 --> 00:28:07,920
Speaker 2: Exactly.

458
00:28:08,759 --> 00:28:12,559
Speaker 1: That's so hard having, you know, held on to stuff

459
00:28:12,759 --> 00:28:16,039
alone for a long time and just telling like, you

460
00:28:16,079 --> 00:28:19,920
know a few people, some of whom were around when

461
00:28:19,960 --> 00:28:23,880
it happened, so we at least, you know, had that

462
00:28:24,880 --> 00:28:27,039
we could say, yeah, you saw that too, right, Yeah,

463
00:28:27,079 --> 00:28:28,960
I definitely yeah, yeah.

464
00:28:29,359 --> 00:28:32,240
Speaker 2: And you know, I lived in Indiana in the middle

465
00:28:32,400 --> 00:28:34,799
and I still do, you know, during I've been born

466
00:28:34,799 --> 00:28:37,519
and raised here. All the weird stuff's happened here, and

467
00:28:37,559 --> 00:28:41,079
it's like, you know, people don't sometimes. I don't think

468
00:28:41,119 --> 00:28:44,319
they realized that the intruders event of June thirty eighty

469
00:28:44,319 --> 00:28:49,000
three was forty years ago. We didn't have internet, yeah,

470
00:28:49,200 --> 00:28:52,799
let alone Facebook or anything else. We didn't have email,

471
00:28:53,440 --> 00:28:56,720
we didn't have text message. We didn't have cell phones.

472
00:28:56,400 --> 00:28:57,480
Speaker 1: We couldn't find each other.

473
00:28:57,559 --> 00:29:02,799
Speaker 2: No, No, I mean I could literally go years without

474
00:29:02,920 --> 00:29:07,039
talking to anybody outside of the family about any of this.

475
00:29:07,599 --> 00:29:10,839
And you know, we talked about it a lot when

476
00:29:11,279 --> 00:29:13,480
in my family because this we had each other and

477
00:29:13,640 --> 00:29:17,200
we were experiencing it together. It wasn't just me. One

478
00:29:17,200 --> 00:29:19,759
thing I will say too, is had all of this

479
00:29:19,960 --> 00:29:25,519
weirdness just happened to me over all this time? You

480
00:29:25,640 --> 00:29:28,720
best be believing I would be the first person to

481
00:29:28,799 --> 00:29:31,119
be asking, you know, am I crazy? And give me

482
00:29:31,160 --> 00:29:35,359
some pills? When Bud, you know, when Bud first arranged

483
00:29:35,400 --> 00:29:37,839
for me to be in New York and have some

484
00:29:37,920 --> 00:29:42,799
psychological testing, I had six hours of verbal and written

485
00:29:42,839 --> 00:29:47,279
psychological testing done, and one of the first things I

486
00:29:47,400 --> 00:29:49,640
said to the guy, one of the guys doing the

487
00:29:49,680 --> 00:29:52,480
test is with It's okay if you tell me I'm crazy? Yeah,

488
00:29:52,519 --> 00:29:54,960
because I you know, do I know they make pills

489
00:29:55,000 --> 00:29:56,319
for that, And if I can take a pill and

490
00:29:56,319 --> 00:29:58,440
make all the shit go away, I'll be perfectly happy.

491
00:29:58,880 --> 00:30:02,440
You know that point, That's how I felt because I

492
00:30:02,839 --> 00:30:05,440
was young, and I was afraid, and I didn't understand

493
00:30:06,319 --> 00:30:09,799
as I've as I've grown and matured and kind of

494
00:30:09,799 --> 00:30:13,079
grown into my shoes here with this, and and my

495
00:30:13,279 --> 00:30:19,200
understanding and my awareness has has grown, and uh, something

496
00:30:19,200 --> 00:30:24,119
in me has woke up. I guess I Uh, I

497
00:30:24,160 --> 00:30:27,240
wouldn't not have had these experiences. I wouldn't go back

498
00:30:27,279 --> 00:30:30,000
and change anything, as scary and traumatic and hard as

499
00:30:30,039 --> 00:30:33,839
it was at that point in my life. And you know, I,

500
00:30:34,279 --> 00:30:36,039
like I said, I thought it was kind of nervous breakdown,

501
00:30:36,119 --> 00:30:38,599
But I wouldn't go back and change anything because because

502
00:30:38,640 --> 00:30:43,000
of that, I am where I'm at now, and where

503
00:30:43,000 --> 00:30:46,599
I'm at now is a place where I'm I'm glad

504
00:30:46,640 --> 00:30:49,799
to be and I'm striving to be even more. You know,

505
00:30:49,839 --> 00:30:51,240
at this point, I'm going to be a work in

506
00:30:51,240 --> 00:30:56,039
progress to the last breath while I'm here. But you know,

507
00:30:56,680 --> 00:31:00,599
it's like I said, I could go literally years without

508
00:31:00,599 --> 00:31:02,880
talking to anybody. And then when the investigator when the

509
00:31:02,920 --> 00:31:06,839
investigation first started with Bud, it was predominantly done by

510
00:31:07,000 --> 00:31:10,799
written snail mail, which was more dependable than it is now.

511
00:31:11,079 --> 00:31:14,640
Speaker 1: Yeah, it work fairly well at one time, and.

512
00:31:16,359 --> 00:31:21,440
Speaker 2: Phone calls which were strategically placed after six pm because

513
00:31:21,440 --> 00:31:23,640
the rates dropped for long distance calls and they never

514
00:31:23,720 --> 00:31:26,400
lasted more than five minutes unless it was an emergency,

515
00:31:26,559 --> 00:31:29,400
you know, because long distance phone calls were expensive. We

516
00:31:29,440 --> 00:31:31,839
didn't have cell phones that you'd call over the world with.

517
00:31:32,079 --> 00:31:35,160
You know, it was a different time. And also the

518
00:31:35,640 --> 00:31:42,519
stigma around even reporting seeing a UFO was was harsh

519
00:31:42,559 --> 00:31:45,440
and hard. And when Bud wanted to write the book,

520
00:31:45,559 --> 00:31:47,559
when you know, after a few years of the investigation,

521
00:31:47,640 --> 00:31:49,400
he's like, I think this is a really important case.

522
00:31:49,720 --> 00:31:53,519
We've got trace you know, okay, we've got trace evidence,

523
00:31:53,599 --> 00:31:56,039
you know, marks in the yard, we've got independent witnesses,

524
00:31:56,279 --> 00:31:59,279
we've got medical evidence, we've got all this other stuff.

525
00:31:59,559 --> 00:32:01,480
And he goes, I think this is a really important case,

526
00:32:01,519 --> 00:32:03,759
and I want the world to know about it. And

527
00:32:04,480 --> 00:32:06,720
he asked, my family. Wasn't just up to me, it

528
00:32:07,480 --> 00:32:09,960
was an entire family. Can you know I want to

529
00:32:09,960 --> 00:32:11,799
write a book about your story and your family. And

530
00:32:12,359 --> 00:32:14,440
you know, our family had to talk about it for

531
00:32:14,480 --> 00:32:17,359
a while before we because I'm my first instinct was

532
00:32:17,400 --> 00:32:19,960
I don't think so nah, you know, I don't know

533
00:32:20,079 --> 00:32:22,720
all that shit. You know, life's hard enough. I don't

534
00:32:22,759 --> 00:32:27,839
want to have to deal with this either. And finally

535
00:32:27,880 --> 00:32:29,559
we said, you know, he convinced us it would be

536
00:32:29,599 --> 00:32:32,720
helpful to help other people that we weren't alone, that

537
00:32:32,799 --> 00:32:35,240
this was a big, bigger than we knew, you know.

538
00:32:35,880 --> 00:32:38,319
So the family said okay, and I ended up having

539
00:32:38,359 --> 00:32:40,119
to take one for the team. I was the one

540
00:32:40,119 --> 00:32:45,480
that came. But you know, and he promised anonymity. You know,

541
00:32:45,880 --> 00:32:49,279
everybody had pseudonyms. Even the place Kopley Woods is not

542
00:32:49,319 --> 00:32:52,680
a real place. That's a pseudonym for where it actually happened.

543
00:32:53,599 --> 00:32:56,759
Because we had people coming to our house to take

544
00:32:56,799 --> 00:32:59,960
pictures of our backyard and do stuff in the moment

545
00:33:00,400 --> 00:33:04,440
before Intruders was even published, when it was just being

546
00:33:05,000 --> 00:33:10,000
known in the uthology world, you know, in the circuit

547
00:33:10,039 --> 00:33:12,720
I guess what you call it, where the conferences were.

548
00:33:13,160 --> 00:33:16,200
We had people coming to the house and taking pictures

549
00:33:16,200 --> 00:33:18,880
of the backyard. Somebody came and took some stuff out

550
00:33:18,880 --> 00:33:21,200
of the yard. We weren't even home when that happened.

551
00:33:21,200 --> 00:33:23,640
The neighbor told us that we that she'd seen him

552
00:33:24,000 --> 00:33:28,680
in our backyard. And so we thought, if this gets

553
00:33:28,839 --> 00:33:31,039
to be a book and people read it, what the

554
00:33:31,039 --> 00:33:32,920
hell's going to happen to us? Then, you know, and

555
00:33:33,000 --> 00:33:35,119
I had to think of my kids. I did not

556
00:33:35,279 --> 00:33:38,559
want my children to be stigmatized by what their mother

557
00:33:39,359 --> 00:33:42,359
talked about. You know, it wasn't far to them. And

558
00:33:42,559 --> 00:33:46,440
I will I'm mama bear. I will throw some hands

559
00:33:46,799 --> 00:33:51,319
anybody who messes with my children. I don't care. But

560
00:33:52,920 --> 00:33:55,640
Bud said, you know, we'll do this as anonymously as

561
00:33:55,640 --> 00:33:57,720
we can. And I did go with him and speak.

562
00:33:58,119 --> 00:33:59,759
I did not speak. He pulled me up on the

563
00:33:59,759 --> 00:34:02,079
stack and I'd answer a couple questions and I'd go

564
00:34:02,119 --> 00:34:04,839
back and hide because I was so nervous. I thought

565
00:34:04,880 --> 00:34:06,920
I was gonna faint. First time I ever stepped up

566
00:34:06,960 --> 00:34:11,119
on the stage. But then, you know, I started meeting people,

567
00:34:11,159 --> 00:34:13,280
and I started meeting people like me that I'd never

568
00:34:13,440 --> 00:34:16,320
had the experience to do before, because I've been sitting

569
00:34:16,519 --> 00:34:18,920
in the middle of Indiana, in the corn forever, all

570
00:34:18,960 --> 00:34:24,519
by myself. You know. Yeah, But you know, it's a

571
00:34:24,519 --> 00:34:29,239
whole different world now. It's you can buy alien head

572
00:34:29,280 --> 00:34:33,039
t shirts at Walmart and they're all over TV. Marketers

573
00:34:33,159 --> 00:34:36,400
use it in their advertising and their commercials and everybody.

574
00:34:36,559 --> 00:34:39,239
It's cool. People are going out with flashlights trying to

575
00:34:39,639 --> 00:34:43,639
have experiences. We didn't do that very much back in

576
00:34:43,719 --> 00:34:48,320
the eighties. Now, and that's fine, if that's what you

577
00:34:48,360 --> 00:34:52,920
want to do, you know, right on, more power do you.

578
00:34:53,360 --> 00:34:56,800
But it's just a different world now than it was then,

579
00:34:56,840 --> 00:34:59,400
and the stigma is a lot less. So I'm hoping.

580
00:34:59,719 --> 00:35:03,119
One of the the reasons that I finally took my

581
00:35:04,000 --> 00:35:06,639
real name and put it out there is when I

582
00:35:06,679 --> 00:35:11,199
wrote Abducted with my sister. Our aim with that book

583
00:35:11,360 --> 00:35:15,639
was to take you know, Bud's Intruders was our case

584
00:35:16,599 --> 00:35:21,559
by the investigator's point of view. Abducted The Story of

585
00:35:21,599 --> 00:35:24,480
Intruders Continues, which was written by myself and my older sister,

586
00:35:25,480 --> 00:35:29,400
was the story, but its first person account. It was

587
00:35:29,519 --> 00:35:34,639
us telling our own story. And that's when I at

588
00:35:34,760 --> 00:35:37,079
my sister and I decided to use our real names

589
00:35:37,480 --> 00:35:40,000
because I thought, Okay, if I'm going to put this

590
00:35:40,079 --> 00:35:42,960
out here in my own words, I need to own

591
00:35:43,039 --> 00:35:47,559
those words. It's not right that I would expect anybody

592
00:35:47,559 --> 00:35:49,920
to even pay attention to it, let alone believe it,

593
00:35:50,599 --> 00:35:53,400
if I won't even use my real name, you know.

594
00:35:53,840 --> 00:35:56,880
And so this is what I did, right or wrong,

595
00:35:57,519 --> 00:36:00,599
and it didn't turn out to be quite as scary

596
00:36:00,639 --> 00:36:02,599
and horribles I thought it would be. Although I've had

597
00:36:03,000 --> 00:36:04,639
I've been attacked over the years, I don't give a

598
00:36:04,639 --> 00:36:06,639
shit what people think of me anymore. I'm sixty five,

599
00:36:06,960 --> 00:36:09,000
you know, like me, Just move on. You know, there's

600
00:36:09,000 --> 00:36:10,719
plenty of other people out there you can hate on.

601
00:36:11,360 --> 00:36:14,760
I'm just a little old grandma here trying to leave

602
00:36:14,800 --> 00:36:19,760
a legacy for my granddaughter. At this point. My whole

603
00:36:19,800 --> 00:36:22,519
deal right now is trying to help as many people

604
00:36:23,039 --> 00:36:27,400
as I can that are like me, who've had UFO experiences,

605
00:36:27,480 --> 00:36:30,199
who've had paranormal experiences, who are stuck in the middle

606
00:36:30,239 --> 00:36:34,719
between both, to see that you can come through that

607
00:36:35,480 --> 00:36:40,000
come over, you can rise above it, you can use

608
00:36:40,039 --> 00:36:44,440
it to you know, grow with your through yourself, you

609
00:36:44,519 --> 00:36:45,800
know what I mean, and you can come out the

610
00:36:46,400 --> 00:36:52,920
other end even better, and that you're not alone, because

611
00:36:52,960 --> 00:36:55,320
that was one of the biggest things for me for

612
00:36:55,480 --> 00:36:58,119
years and years and years, as I felt so alone

613
00:36:58,559 --> 00:37:01,599
with nobody to talk to about this other than you know,

614
00:37:01,719 --> 00:37:04,760
mom and my sisters and a couple friends and neighbors.

615
00:37:04,800 --> 00:37:08,320
But I mean to be able to talk about it

616
00:37:08,360 --> 00:37:11,400
to anybody, you know, and I wanted to put myself

617
00:37:11,400 --> 00:37:13,519
out there and pay it forward because I was lucky.

618
00:37:14,280 --> 00:37:17,719
I was more fortunate than most people like me because

619
00:37:17,760 --> 00:37:21,599
I did have the support of my family and my

620
00:37:21,679 --> 00:37:25,400
co workers and my friends and neighbors. I had that

621
00:37:25,440 --> 00:37:29,559
support that most people don't have, and so I wanted

622
00:37:29,559 --> 00:37:32,000
to help pay that forward as well, because I feel

623
00:37:32,039 --> 00:37:34,320
like that's part of what I was supposed to be doing.

624
00:37:34,599 --> 00:37:38,679
So when I wrote the book Extraordinary Contract, that was

625
00:37:38,679 --> 00:37:42,440
my way of reaching out to people that have been

626
00:37:42,519 --> 00:37:44,480
through the things I've been through and for them to

627
00:37:44,480 --> 00:37:48,960
see that, you know, I'm okay, and you're gonna be

628
00:37:49,000 --> 00:37:52,079
okay too, and don't be afraid. You know, life is

629
00:37:52,159 --> 00:37:54,599
just weird and we're all here together and we'll hold

630
00:37:54,599 --> 00:37:59,880
each other's hand, you know. And yeah, I monitor, I

631
00:38:00,480 --> 00:38:08,079
moderate the I helped moderate the zero Midwest Facebook Experiencers

632
00:38:09,039 --> 00:38:11,960
private page for people who've had these experiences want a

633
00:38:12,000 --> 00:38:14,199
safe place to talk about their experiences where they're not

634
00:38:14,239 --> 00:38:17,159
going to be judged. Nobody's scientists here, We're not going

635
00:38:17,239 --> 00:38:19,920
to pick you apart or drudge. You just feel free

636
00:38:19,960 --> 00:38:25,880
to cut loose and let it fly and and it's okay.

637
00:38:26,480 --> 00:38:29,880
And so I have I'm doing that. I'm a member

638
00:38:29,920 --> 00:38:34,719
of Zero. Yvonne Smith started this group about thirty years

639
00:38:34,760 --> 00:38:37,800
ago out in California, and it was used to be

640
00:38:37,960 --> 00:38:42,920
just for you know, the regional people. But now she's

641
00:38:43,440 --> 00:38:46,679
she does Zoom meetings for out of town members, which

642
00:38:46,719 --> 00:38:49,760
is I think great and it helps to connect people

643
00:38:49,840 --> 00:38:52,679
that feel alone in wherever they're at, like I used

644
00:38:52,679 --> 00:38:54,280
to be, and I think it's a great thing.

645
00:38:54,639 --> 00:39:00,360
Speaker 1: Close Encounters Research Organization there later renamed Close and Counter

646
00:39:00,480 --> 00:39:09,159
Resource Organization instead of research. So, yeah, it is support groups.

647
00:39:09,199 --> 00:39:15,119
It's for people who have PTSD because of their experiences. Okay,

648
00:39:15,639 --> 00:39:19,679
and I'm also it's over twenty years old. It got

649
00:39:19,679 --> 00:39:21,800
its twentieth anniversary in twenty twelve.

650
00:39:22,639 --> 00:39:30,320
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm also re ironic. Yeah, it is. Actually I'm

651
00:39:30,360 --> 00:39:35,559
also a supporting member. I think. I don't think that's

652
00:39:35,599 --> 00:39:40,280
what they're calling me. Let's see, it's Hollywood Disclosure Alliance

653
00:39:42,039 --> 00:39:49,519
and they are let me let me see if I

654
00:39:49,519 --> 00:39:58,679
can figure out, uh, yeah, what They try to get

655
00:39:59,079 --> 00:40:03,679
the information out. You know, Hollywood is making movies, documentaries

656
00:40:03,719 --> 00:40:06,519
and stuff all the time now about UFO stuff, and

657
00:40:06,559 --> 00:40:10,000
they're trying to get the correct information out, you know,

658
00:40:10,360 --> 00:40:14,480
the stuff that's happening. Stephen Bassett and Dan harrow Ray

659
00:40:14,639 --> 00:40:18,880
are the founders of this. It's called the Hollywood Disclosure Alliance,

660
00:40:18,920 --> 00:40:22,920
and I'm I'm participating in that and only just because

661
00:40:22,920 --> 00:40:27,000
I want to help get that write the accurate message out.

662
00:40:27,119 --> 00:40:29,039
You know, if Hollywood is going to make millions of

663
00:40:29,039 --> 00:40:32,639
dollars making movies about UFOs and aliens and stuff, at

664
00:40:32,719 --> 00:40:35,519
least they can do it correctly and not jack it

665
00:40:35,599 --> 00:40:40,480
all up. My Intruders, yeah, the mini series Intruders that

666
00:40:40,639 --> 00:40:45,880
was done based very loosely on Bud's book Intruders. You know,

667
00:40:46,320 --> 00:40:49,119
when when it first came out, I was kind of

668
00:40:49,280 --> 00:40:52,800
disappointed in it and felt kind of angry and kind

669
00:40:52,840 --> 00:40:56,719
of sad because they're other than a couple of brief

670
00:40:58,199 --> 00:41:03,440
scenes in this whole documentary, In this whole docuseries, there

671
00:41:03,599 --> 00:41:07,400
was nothing that remotely resembled my case or anything about

672
00:41:07,400 --> 00:41:10,480
it or me. What Tracy Tourmay did was he bought

673
00:41:10,519 --> 00:41:12,480
the option to use the title and anything in the

674
00:41:12,480 --> 00:41:15,880
book he wanted, but then he took Hollywood license, you know,

675
00:41:15,920 --> 00:41:18,840
and he ended up taking like all kinds of different

676
00:41:18,880 --> 00:41:24,079
cases and combined them into different characters, fictional characters and

677
00:41:24,119 --> 00:41:28,320
fictional events, but based on true stories. With exception of

678
00:41:28,599 --> 00:41:33,159
two scenes that came directly out of Intruders. It was

679
00:41:33,280 --> 00:41:36,079
nothing like me. But yet, when I went to speak

680
00:41:36,480 --> 00:41:40,159
at a conference, somewhere or something. Inevitably I would be

681
00:41:40,400 --> 00:41:43,679
people would be like, oh, they saw in the mini series,

682
00:41:43,719 --> 00:41:45,760
and they that's why they came to hear me speak,

683
00:41:45,840 --> 00:41:47,760
and they wanted to meet me, and they wanted to

684
00:41:47,800 --> 00:41:50,679
tell me. They wanted to ask me about a certain

685
00:41:50,719 --> 00:41:53,920
scene in the movie. And I hated to have to

686
00:41:53,960 --> 00:41:57,360
tell them that wasn't me, that wasn't something that happened

687
00:41:57,400 --> 00:41:59,320
to me. I know it was in that movie, but

688
00:41:59,480 --> 00:42:02,840
this is what they did, and you know what I mean. Yeah,

689
00:42:02,960 --> 00:42:06,000
But and so I was disappointed, and I felt bad

690
00:42:06,039 --> 00:42:08,559
because I didn't. I didn't I had to tell the truth.

691
00:42:08,599 --> 00:42:11,639
I wasn't gonna I didn't. I felt bad that these

692
00:42:11,639 --> 00:42:14,760
people felt bad, but I didn't want to lie to them,

693
00:42:15,199 --> 00:42:20,000
you know. And but in retrospect, now, if you watch

694
00:42:20,039 --> 00:42:22,679
that mini series, it's probably one of the first things

695
00:42:22,679 --> 00:42:25,400
on TV, because it's like ninety two or ninety three.

696
00:42:25,880 --> 00:42:27,760
It was one of the first eighty two, one of

697
00:42:27,760 --> 00:42:31,880
the first things on TV that that did the subject,

698
00:42:32,519 --> 00:42:34,360
one of the first things that did the subject with

699
00:42:34,400 --> 00:42:37,199
some respect and didn't make it look like a bunch

700
00:42:37,280 --> 00:42:41,840
of clowns and jerks. There wasn't a laugh track, people

701
00:42:41,840 --> 00:42:44,599
weren't giggling. There wasn't like porn music in the background

702
00:42:44,679 --> 00:42:48,000
or some doofity stuff like that. You know, they actually

703
00:42:48,079 --> 00:42:54,280
treated it with respect. And Mayor Winningham, who played my character,

704
00:42:54,400 --> 00:42:57,480
the one that was based on me, actually called me

705
00:42:57,639 --> 00:43:01,320
twice and one of to talk to me about the

706
00:43:01,320 --> 00:43:04,280
two scenes that she was doing because she wanted to

707
00:43:04,800 --> 00:43:08,639
They were emotional and she wanted to do right by me,

708
00:43:09,679 --> 00:43:14,960
which I was extremely thankful for and impressed by. So

709
00:43:16,079 --> 00:43:19,320
you know, but anyways, getting I felt like getting involved

710
00:43:19,360 --> 00:43:24,760
in this Hollywood alliance would help to keep the you know,

711
00:43:24,800 --> 00:43:27,960
the truth coming out, not a bunch of made up stuff,

712
00:43:28,000 --> 00:43:31,239
and you know what I mean. And also I do

713
00:43:31,320 --> 00:43:35,239
a podcast every Thursday live stream at eight pm Eastern

714
00:43:35,320 --> 00:43:38,719
Standard Time with my buddy Greg Cable. It's called Midwest

715
00:43:38,760 --> 00:43:42,480
Paara Talk Radio, which we did that ten years ago

716
00:43:42,920 --> 00:43:45,400
for quite a long time. And then we had to

717
00:43:45,440 --> 00:43:48,239
go on Hey Hiatus and I got bumped a second

718
00:43:48,320 --> 00:43:51,760
shift and he moved to Georgia, and you know, life

719
00:43:51,800 --> 00:43:53,760
just threw a bunch of monkey wrenches in our plan.

720
00:43:53,880 --> 00:43:56,519
But now I'm retired and he's back in Indiana, so

721
00:43:56,880 --> 00:44:00,559
we have resurrected Midwest Paara Talk and we're doing that again,

722
00:44:00,960 --> 00:44:04,760
trying to get good information out and you know, talk

723
00:44:04,800 --> 00:44:08,559
to people. Sometimes it's just me and him talking about stuff,

724
00:44:08,800 --> 00:44:11,400
and I might talk about some of my experiences and

725
00:44:11,920 --> 00:44:14,480
weird things that it might have happened. And then sometimes

726
00:44:14,559 --> 00:44:17,400
we have guests that we talk to. You know, if

727
00:44:17,440 --> 00:44:19,559
I can ever talk to anybody into coming on being

728
00:44:19,679 --> 00:44:24,159
cast with us, it's you know, or Greg. He knows

729
00:44:24,199 --> 00:44:27,199
that he's the paranormal side and I'm the UFO side

730
00:44:28,159 --> 00:44:31,960
of Midwest para talk. But so I do that. I'm

731
00:44:31,960 --> 00:44:35,159
stay busy trying to help people as best I can,

732
00:44:35,480 --> 00:44:38,119
you know, And that's my whole thing. I feel like

733
00:44:40,039 --> 00:44:41,920
there's a reason why this has happened to me, and

734
00:44:41,960 --> 00:44:43,719
there's a reason why I'm here, and I think that

735
00:44:43,800 --> 00:44:48,599
I'm supposed to be helping people with this because you know,

736
00:44:50,679 --> 00:44:53,800
I already know that we don't live alone in this

737
00:44:54,480 --> 00:44:57,079
universe or this world or even on this planet frankly,

738
00:44:58,119 --> 00:45:00,440
but it's going to come as root away for a

739
00:45:00,480 --> 00:45:02,719
lot of people, and when it does, I'll be there

740
00:45:02,760 --> 00:45:03,360
to help them.

741
00:45:04,760 --> 00:45:06,039
Speaker 1: Yeah.

742
00:45:06,360 --> 00:45:13,239
Speaker 2: Yeah, me and a whole bunch of other people like you.

743
00:45:12,679 --> 00:45:15,800
Speaker 1: Reducing the ontological shock for everybody else.

744
00:45:16,039 --> 00:45:18,840
Speaker 2: That's I need a T shirt that says reducing the

745
00:45:18,920 --> 00:45:20,719
ontological shock for you.

746
00:45:25,239 --> 00:45:26,760
Speaker 1: That would be a funny T shirt.

747
00:45:27,079 --> 00:45:30,079
Speaker 2: Yeah, and I hardly no one would understand what it means.

748
00:45:30,119 --> 00:45:34,320
Speaker 1: I know, I know the occasional like I don't know,

749
00:45:34,400 --> 00:45:38,440
anthropologist would be oh which ontological shock?

750
00:45:38,639 --> 00:45:39,960
Speaker 2: Yeah?

751
00:45:40,239 --> 00:45:44,599
Speaker 1: Oh buddy, sit down, Have we got some for you? Yeah?

752
00:45:45,119 --> 00:45:51,079
Uh yeah, you know, I just I really. One of

753
00:45:51,119 --> 00:45:54,159
the other things that I was struck by is you know,

754
00:45:54,239 --> 00:45:57,480
as you said, when you moved out of your parents' home,

755
00:45:58,039 --> 00:46:01,960
it followed you. When your sister of doubt, it follows her. Yep.

756
00:46:02,519 --> 00:46:06,920
And there's one part in your uh in your book.

757
00:46:07,039 --> 00:46:11,960
I think it's in the the Poltergeists in the Paranormal

758
00:46:12,079 --> 00:46:17,280
chapter that you talk about your neighbor having a visit

759
00:46:17,559 --> 00:46:25,199
from six little guys with pointed hoods. It never used

760
00:46:25,199 --> 00:46:27,079
to be weird before you moved in.

761
00:46:27,519 --> 00:46:31,000
Speaker 2: Yes, that's exactly she said. You know, this stuff didn't

762
00:46:31,039 --> 00:46:34,519
happen until you moved in. I remember coming to me

763
00:46:34,519 --> 00:46:36,360
one time, She's like, did you hear all the rattling

764
00:46:36,440 --> 00:46:39,320
last night? Her? She lived above me, and she had

765
00:46:39,320 --> 00:46:42,679
a balcony, you know, with the metal balcony, And I

766
00:46:42,679 --> 00:46:45,239
guess it rattled like the go gets, you know, in

767
00:46:45,280 --> 00:46:47,599
the middle of the night. And yeah, she of course

768
00:46:47,679 --> 00:46:50,000
came downstairs first thing in the morning and blamed me

769
00:46:50,159 --> 00:46:55,880
for it. You tell your friends to knock that ship off.

770
00:46:59,360 --> 00:47:00,920
People are trying I'm to sleep here.

771
00:47:02,679 --> 00:47:08,679
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, that m I just that made me wonder.

772
00:47:08,719 --> 00:47:11,440
You know, every time I've lived in an apartment, did I, like,

773
00:47:11,960 --> 00:47:15,480
you know, destroy people's sleep and they just couldn't figure

774
00:47:15,519 --> 00:47:17,599
out who had done it, what was happening?

775
00:47:18,280 --> 00:47:22,280
Speaker 2: Yeah right, God knows what kind of wake I've left behind.

776
00:47:24,039 --> 00:47:27,119
I'm telling you, there's and I see weird thing I

777
00:47:27,159 --> 00:47:29,280
see weird. I don't know if I can just see

778
00:47:29,320 --> 00:47:32,960
things that other people don't see. Like shopping is an

779
00:47:33,000 --> 00:47:36,119
event for me. One time I was at the Walmart

780
00:47:36,239 --> 00:47:40,599
and I was standing there looking at the massive choices

781
00:47:40,639 --> 00:47:44,000
of salads of bag salads and cut vegetables and all

782
00:47:44,000 --> 00:47:46,880
that jazz, and I felt somebody looking at me, you

783
00:47:46,920 --> 00:47:49,199
know how you can just kind of feel somebody looking

784
00:47:49,199 --> 00:47:51,519
at you sometimes. And I turned around and looked to

785
00:47:52,119 --> 00:47:57,320
my left. There was this tall, skinny dude, tall look goth,

786
00:47:57,559 --> 00:48:02,000
all black clothes, black pants, black shirt, black hair, black

787
00:48:02,119 --> 00:48:05,119
eyes to me, really dark eyes, you know, and he was.

788
00:48:05,400 --> 00:48:07,840
He had one of those red baskets in his arm,

789
00:48:07,960 --> 00:48:11,159
which really stood out from all the black right, and

790
00:48:11,199 --> 00:48:13,239
he was looking at me. He was his body was

791
00:48:13,280 --> 00:48:15,800
faced straight ahead, but his head was turned right at me,

792
00:48:15,920 --> 00:48:20,000
looking dead on me. And he had this most bizarre,

793
00:48:20,480 --> 00:48:25,360
creepy smile on his face like you felt me, you know,

794
00:48:25,480 --> 00:48:28,599
or something like that. Oh and yeah, And I was like,

795
00:48:29,159 --> 00:48:31,599
and I turned, I turned back away from him, like,

796
00:48:31,840 --> 00:48:34,159
don't do that to me, dude, that is not even cool.

797
00:48:34,199 --> 00:48:35,800
And then when I turned and looked back again, he

798
00:48:35,920 --> 00:48:39,719
was gone. And I'm like, hold on. I took off,

799
00:48:39,800 --> 00:48:42,079
runting to the end of the aisle, and I looked

800
00:48:42,079 --> 00:48:44,280
down the aisle and then I kind of trotted down

801
00:48:44,320 --> 00:48:46,880
and was looking down each aisle as you know, there's

802
00:48:47,239 --> 00:48:49,719
I looked over that whole store and he was nowhere

803
00:48:49,760 --> 00:48:53,119
to be seen. And then it occurred to me later,

804
00:48:54,119 --> 00:48:56,920
was he actually even there? I mean? Was I the

805
00:48:56,960 --> 00:48:59,039
only one who could see him? Was this a test

806
00:48:59,480 --> 00:49:01,559
to see if if I could see him? And why

807
00:49:01,639 --> 00:49:04,800
was he so happy when I looked at him, like

808
00:49:05,440 --> 00:49:08,000
he was like, oh, you see me? Because I went

809
00:49:09,519 --> 00:49:15,320
she was pretty rude, but you know this, and now

810
00:49:15,360 --> 00:49:17,320
I can imagine that this would happen to a lot

811
00:49:17,400 --> 00:49:21,159
of people, but a lot of people would never dare

812
00:49:21,800 --> 00:49:26,239
say it to anybody out loud because automatically I think

813
00:49:26,440 --> 00:49:32,079
that she crazy. I think I'm crazy, you know. So

814
00:49:32,440 --> 00:49:35,960
it's like, you know, but I'm just putting it out there.

815
00:49:36,000 --> 00:49:38,119
I'm just saying, I'm all. I'm saying all the stuff

816
00:49:38,119 --> 00:49:40,360
that people are too scared to say. I guess I

817
00:49:40,360 --> 00:49:44,320
don't know, it happens.

818
00:49:44,440 --> 00:49:45,280
Speaker 1: That is a good one.

819
00:49:45,360 --> 00:49:49,440
Speaker 2: Though it happens that it happens all the time. I

820
00:49:49,480 --> 00:49:51,440
mean not to be all the time, but happens every

821
00:49:51,480 --> 00:49:52,920
day to somebody.

822
00:49:53,519 --> 00:49:55,480
Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, I don't know why.

823
00:49:56,440 --> 00:49:58,199
Speaker 2: I felt like it's some kind of test. You know,

824
00:49:58,400 --> 00:50:00,639
I could be wrong. I always prefer everything that I

825
00:50:00,719 --> 00:50:03,039
could be wrong, because I could be wrong. But I

826
00:50:03,360 --> 00:50:05,360
almost felt like it was some kind of test to

827
00:50:05,400 --> 00:50:07,199
see what I was capable of doing.

828
00:50:09,199 --> 00:50:11,480
Speaker 1: Yeah, and of course it had to happen at Walmart.

829
00:50:11,840 --> 00:50:15,000
Speaker 2: Well, everything happens at Walmart. Have you seen the people

830
00:50:15,079 --> 00:50:15,719
of Walmart?

831
00:50:16,480 --> 00:50:23,119
Speaker 1: I was gonna say, have you seen the website, Barbara, Yes, yeah,

832
00:50:23,199 --> 00:50:25,719
it would happen at Walmart. I know that.

833
00:50:26,320 --> 00:50:26,519
Speaker 2: You know.

834
00:50:26,599 --> 00:50:31,599
Speaker 1: My husband and I uh had this series of stories

835
00:50:31,639 --> 00:50:34,000
that we used to tell each other, but then we

836
00:50:34,360 --> 00:50:36,519
started writing it down. We've been writing it down for

837
00:50:36,880 --> 00:50:42,360
a million years now. And it had all these characters

838
00:50:42,360 --> 00:50:48,039
in it, and they all had very specific looks to them.

839
00:50:48,079 --> 00:50:51,199
And a few times when we owned a bookstore here

840
00:50:51,199 --> 00:50:55,559
in Athens, you know, we'd be sitting there and a

841
00:50:55,599 --> 00:50:58,760
person would come in and he would look exactly like

842
00:50:59,000 --> 00:51:03,880
one of our characters, and he would look at stuff

843
00:51:04,239 --> 00:51:06,599
and look at us and sort of nod and and

844
00:51:07,440 --> 00:51:10,159
then wander off and we'd never see him again. And

845
00:51:10,199 --> 00:51:12,239
we live in a very small town. I mean, it's

846
00:51:12,239 --> 00:51:14,440
a college town, so when the college students are here,

847
00:51:14,440 --> 00:51:17,119
there's a lot of a lot more, you know, a

848
00:51:17,199 --> 00:51:22,760
lot of energy, a lot oh tons of energy. There's yeah, yeah, lots,

849
00:51:23,760 --> 00:51:27,360
and we would never see them again. And and there,

850
00:51:27,400 --> 00:51:29,320
you know, there were people that we'd see. They'd come in,

851
00:51:29,360 --> 00:51:31,039
they wouldn't talk to us, and then we'd you know,

852
00:51:31,119 --> 00:51:32,800
go to the grocery store and we'd see him or

853
00:51:32,840 --> 00:51:36,320
we'd see him walking you know, uptown or up on

854
00:51:36,400 --> 00:51:39,599
the green. You know. But these people that were in

855
00:51:39,679 --> 00:51:42,719
our story, we'd only see him like once and then

856
00:51:42,760 --> 00:51:44,559
they were gone. It was almost as if they were

857
00:51:44,599 --> 00:51:49,679
like Hey, thanks for making me hey, or hey, thanks

858
00:51:49,719 --> 00:51:53,719
for hearing my life story and telling it. Hey. You

859
00:51:53,800 --> 00:51:57,880
know they just disappear. And yeah, that's one of the

860
00:51:57,880 --> 00:52:00,840
ones I don't tell most people because you know they're

861
00:52:00,880 --> 00:52:05,480
just going to be like, yeah, all right, lady, Yeah

862
00:52:05,559 --> 00:52:06,239
that's normal.

863
00:52:08,760 --> 00:52:11,079
Speaker 2: I just laugh. I laugh a lot. I crack jokes

864
00:52:11,119 --> 00:52:13,360
because you know what, sometimes if you can't. If I

865
00:52:13,360 --> 00:52:14,760
didn't laugh, I just cry.

866
00:52:16,679 --> 00:52:21,679
Speaker 1: That's that's how I am crying. Is is you know,

867
00:52:22,079 --> 00:52:24,079
there's a place to cry, there's a time to cry,

868
00:52:24,119 --> 00:52:25,480
but you don't want to do it all the time.

869
00:52:25,880 --> 00:52:27,599
Speaker 2: No, man, I get a headache when I cry.

870
00:52:28,800 --> 00:52:29,480
Speaker 1: Yeah.

871
00:52:29,519 --> 00:52:31,760
Speaker 2: I did enough of that for a day. I did

872
00:52:31,760 --> 00:52:35,599
that enough in my younger years. I bank some. So

873
00:52:35,639 --> 00:52:36,079
I'm good.

874
00:52:37,199 --> 00:52:37,400
Speaker 3: Yea.

875
00:52:40,360 --> 00:52:45,840
Speaker 1: So one of the one of the really interesting stories. Well,

876
00:52:45,920 --> 00:52:50,840
you tell various stories about you've seen physical craft, but

877
00:52:50,920 --> 00:52:56,199
you also have seen lights that come out of the

878
00:52:56,239 --> 00:52:59,280
sky and then land, and you've also seen the smaller

879
00:52:59,320 --> 00:53:01,440
ones that come in and out of your house. This

880
00:53:01,519 --> 00:53:07,000
is a thing that I experienced a lot. And when

881
00:53:07,039 --> 00:53:11,800
you told the green ping pong ball it what it

882
00:53:12,199 --> 00:53:15,239
messed up your television? Did it turn your television off?

883
00:53:16,079 --> 00:53:22,880
Speaker 2: It turned the TV off. It made the telephone ring. Jeez,

884
00:53:23,719 --> 00:53:26,400
I'm trying to I know it cut the light off.

885
00:53:26,440 --> 00:53:27,840
Mom was sitting next to but and I'm trying to

886
00:53:27,840 --> 00:53:30,559
think it. I don't think maybe the light bulb broke,

887
00:53:30,679 --> 00:53:33,639
you know. I mean this was thirty some years ago. Yeah,

888
00:53:33,920 --> 00:53:36,960
but yeah, it was. It was me, my mom, my

889
00:53:37,000 --> 00:53:39,719
two kids. My kids were on the floor playing. Mom

890
00:53:39,920 --> 00:53:41,360
was on the couch and I was in a chair.

891
00:53:41,440 --> 00:53:43,760
We were watching TV. Daddy had one of those big,

892
00:53:44,199 --> 00:53:46,159
big screen TVs, but it was one of the big

893
00:53:46,199 --> 00:53:48,039
horse kind you know before the flower.

894
00:53:48,159 --> 00:53:50,400
Speaker 1: Yeah, millions of pounds.

895
00:53:50,480 --> 00:53:53,880
Speaker 2: Yeah, like a rear projection TV or something like that. Anyways,

896
00:53:54,800 --> 00:53:56,440
we were in the living room. Dad was at work.

897
00:53:56,519 --> 00:53:58,719
It was nighttime. It was you know this, it was

898
00:53:58,800 --> 00:54:02,000
dark out. Lights were on, and it just so happened

899
00:54:02,000 --> 00:54:05,480
that it happened. I mean when it happened, I just

900
00:54:05,559 --> 00:54:08,119
happened to look up at the instant that it happened,

901
00:54:08,599 --> 00:54:11,920
and I saw the ball of light. It was kind

902
00:54:11,960 --> 00:54:13,519
of in the middle of the room a little bit

903
00:54:13,719 --> 00:54:16,039
was closer to my mom and the couch where she

904
00:54:16,119 --> 00:54:19,159
was sitting, and about head height from her on the couch,

905
00:54:19,920 --> 00:54:22,719
and I don't know, it was like ping pong ball size,

906
00:54:22,760 --> 00:54:26,280
but it was bright and it was green. Green is green,

907
00:54:26,639 --> 00:54:28,639
like intense, Like I call it paranormal green, you know,

908
00:54:28,679 --> 00:54:29,719
I'm talking about like floresta.

909
00:54:29,800 --> 00:54:32,360
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, that weird, super weird green.

910
00:54:32,440 --> 00:54:39,840
Speaker 2: Yeah. And my mom covered she dick put down and

911
00:54:39,840 --> 00:54:42,960
covered her face and cut her eyes closed. The kid's

912
00:54:43,480 --> 00:54:45,199
heads were down and their eyes were closed. And of

913
00:54:45,239 --> 00:54:49,480
course I'm like, head up, dead at it, staring right

914
00:54:49,519 --> 00:54:52,079
at it. I'm like, the hell is that? At the

915
00:54:52,119 --> 00:54:57,159
exact moment cuts off the TV, I believe the light

916
00:54:57,159 --> 00:55:00,480
bulb breaks in the lamp that's Mom sitting next to

917
00:55:01,320 --> 00:55:04,960
and the telephone rang, but it only rang one time,

918
00:55:05,119 --> 00:55:07,480
you know, it's like a trunk ring or whatever. It

919
00:55:07,480 --> 00:55:11,519
was a landline. A phone rang, Yeah, And I remember

920
00:55:11,559 --> 00:55:14,880
my mom later, my kids were freaked out. I'm like,

921
00:55:14,920 --> 00:55:17,440
what the hell was that? I remember later my mom

922
00:55:17,519 --> 00:55:19,559
talking to my dad. My dad was an electrician, and

923
00:55:19,559 --> 00:55:22,519
she's like, kind of Dad's like, there's no way on

924
00:55:22,599 --> 00:55:26,199
the planet that a light bulb breaking in a lamp,

925
00:55:26,639 --> 00:55:28,599
you know, ten feet away, it's going to make a

926
00:55:28,639 --> 00:55:30,679
green ball a light in the middle of the living room.

927
00:55:31,280 --> 00:55:35,360
And that also cannot shut the TV off and make

928
00:55:35,400 --> 00:55:39,320
the phone ring. Either what it was, what happened, I

929
00:55:39,360 --> 00:55:44,880
have no idea. I've had people question that it was

930
00:55:45,239 --> 00:55:47,519
like either the beginning or the end of an entire

931
00:55:48,079 --> 00:55:51,679
event that none of us has any recollection of that.

932
00:55:51,880 --> 00:55:55,760
I don't know. I couldn't tell you. But you know, again,

933
00:55:55,960 --> 00:55:57,480
this is the kind of thing that if it was

934
00:55:57,639 --> 00:56:00,519
just happening to me, I'd be like, okay, my mind.

935
00:56:01,039 --> 00:56:03,400
But my mother was with us. Mom was there, the

936
00:56:03,440 --> 00:56:04,239
kids were there.

937
00:56:04,559 --> 00:56:04,800
Speaker 3: You know.

938
00:56:04,920 --> 00:56:08,599
Speaker 2: It wasn't like I was there by myself. So yeah,

939
00:56:08,599 --> 00:56:10,800
that was bizarre. And then I'm when we lived out

940
00:56:10,800 --> 00:56:13,440
on the farm after I got moved out, the kids

941
00:56:13,480 --> 00:56:17,599
were older, I lived on a farm and my late husband,

942
00:56:17,639 --> 00:56:21,079
I think he had already passed away by then, and Dave,

943
00:56:21,320 --> 00:56:25,199
my current husband, was there, his daughter was there, and

944
00:56:25,320 --> 00:56:28,000
I remember we were in the living room, I think,

945
00:56:28,119 --> 00:56:30,679
or the dining room, and this little ball of white,

946
00:56:30,760 --> 00:56:35,199
bluish white light came right through the living room window,

947
00:56:35,920 --> 00:56:38,320
right through the living room, through the dining room, whizzed

948
00:56:38,400 --> 00:56:41,079
right past our heads, went in the kitchen, whizzed around,

949
00:56:41,400 --> 00:56:45,400
and then shot back through the dining room and back

950
00:56:45,400 --> 00:56:47,920
out the dining room window. Little ball of light bluish

951
00:56:47,920 --> 00:56:50,719
white light. Probably I'm going to say, maybe the size

952
00:56:50,760 --> 00:56:54,360
of a dime, you know, or a little bit tiny, yeah,

953
00:56:54,480 --> 00:56:56,760
not big at all. And the same thing happened to

954
00:56:56,800 --> 00:57:00,000
me with the same kind of light, a little bluish

955
00:57:00,320 --> 00:57:02,960
ball of light. It was like two thirty in the

956
00:57:02,960 --> 00:57:05,599
morning and I was coming home. I had been at

957
00:57:05,639 --> 00:57:07,880
the club. I was at the bar with a couple

958
00:57:07,840 --> 00:57:12,800
of girlfriends having a beer, you know. I was two

959
00:57:12,800 --> 00:57:15,719
thirty in the morning. I was at the intersection of

960
00:57:15,719 --> 00:57:18,599
like Washington Street and Post Road or something in Annapolis,

961
00:57:19,400 --> 00:57:22,679
and it was I mean, there was lights everywhere, in

962
00:57:22,800 --> 00:57:26,199
street lights. It was like suburb or you know, I

963
00:57:26,199 --> 00:57:29,079
don't know how to what you call that, like stores

964
00:57:29,119 --> 00:57:33,679
and shopping plazas everywhere. And I'm sitting in my car

965
00:57:33,719 --> 00:57:36,599
at the red light and this blue ball of light

966
00:57:36,800 --> 00:57:40,039
comes down out of the sky, comes right through the

967
00:57:40,079 --> 00:57:45,679
glass of my passenger side, through my car, right in

968
00:57:45,719 --> 00:57:48,559
front of me, and out out the door, I mean

969
00:57:48,599 --> 00:57:51,320
out the other side the other glass and up and

970
00:57:51,360 --> 00:57:54,280
I'm like, what the hell because and I was not drunk,

971
00:57:54,360 --> 00:57:55,239
I hadn't been drinking.

972
00:57:55,880 --> 00:57:56,280
Speaker 3: It was.

973
00:57:57,960 --> 00:58:00,480
Speaker 2: Bizarre. And it was again another little bluelue ball, a

974
00:58:00,519 --> 00:58:04,920
light little little bluish white balls a light I've even

975
00:58:04,960 --> 00:58:07,920
had in the house we lived in on Washington Street,

976
00:58:08,000 --> 00:58:13,559
the little place we rented. This was before I moved

977
00:58:13,599 --> 00:58:16,880
to the farmhouse, and all the blue ball stuff was happening.

978
00:58:19,079 --> 00:58:20,239
That did not sound good.

979
00:58:20,320 --> 00:58:22,360
Speaker 1: Sorry, but uh well, I'm sorry.

980
00:58:23,000 --> 00:58:26,159
Speaker 2: This little house that we were living in, weird stuff

981
00:58:26,239 --> 00:58:30,679
was happening. And I would walk down the hallway and

982
00:58:30,760 --> 00:58:33,360
I would be hitting the forehead with a drop of water,

983
00:58:33,519 --> 00:58:36,400
a big drop of water. Or I'd be in the

984
00:58:36,440 --> 00:58:39,320
living room and I'd get just out of nowhere. I'd

985
00:58:39,360 --> 00:58:42,599
get hit in the forehead, always right here in the

986
00:58:42,639 --> 00:58:46,559
middle of my forehead, a drop of water to where

987
00:58:46,599 --> 00:58:49,719
I wet. You can feel it. It was wet, but

988
00:58:49,880 --> 00:58:53,320
yet there was We could never find where it came from.

989
00:58:53,400 --> 00:58:56,400
There was no leaks, there was no ceiling, wet nothing.

990
00:58:56,760 --> 00:59:00,199
It's just like a drop of water were just manifest

991
00:59:00,199 --> 00:59:02,920
out of nowhere and hit me right between the eyes,

992
00:59:03,440 --> 00:59:05,599
like right you know, on my forehead, right between my

993
00:59:05,599 --> 00:59:07,920
eyes where they say your third eye is right there,

994
00:59:08,880 --> 00:59:11,360
a drop of water. And I had that happen to me.

995
00:59:11,800 --> 00:59:13,639
That also happened to me in the apartment that I

996
00:59:13,679 --> 00:59:17,559
lived in before I moved into that little bungalow. It

997
00:59:17,599 --> 00:59:20,519
happened to me there as well, didn't happen to anybody

998
00:59:20,519 --> 00:59:23,519
else in the house, just me and I find we

999
00:59:23,599 --> 00:59:25,880
got to the point where we called it my baptism,

1000
00:59:26,000 --> 00:59:29,719
that was getting baptized. That's what my ex husband told me.

1001
00:59:29,800 --> 00:59:30,639
I was being.

1002
00:59:30,440 --> 00:59:33,960
Speaker 1: Baptized, baptized, drop by drop.

1003
00:59:34,960 --> 00:59:38,519
Speaker 2: It just you know, okay, and now see such bizarre shit.

1004
00:59:39,239 --> 00:59:42,000
And there was a time in my life when I

1005
00:59:42,000 --> 00:59:45,239
wouldn't dream of telling a soul this stuff. But like

1006
00:59:45,320 --> 00:59:47,119
I said, I'm to the point now where I don't

1007
00:59:47,159 --> 00:59:50,320
care if you think I'm crazy. You ain't alone, because

1008
00:59:50,320 --> 00:59:52,519
I probably thought I was too, you know, for a

1009
00:59:52,559 --> 00:59:56,679
long time. But now that I have found out that

1010
00:59:56,719 --> 01:00:00,760
there's so many people, there's more people that have stories

1011
01:00:00,840 --> 01:00:04,639
like this than not. They just a that's what I've

1012
01:00:05,239 --> 01:00:06,800
I believe. I believe that's a fact.

1013
01:00:07,000 --> 01:00:10,840
Speaker 1: Yeah, I've started to actually believe that too.

1014
01:00:11,400 --> 01:00:12,920
Speaker 2: And I feel like the more I go out and

1015
01:00:13,079 --> 01:00:15,280
act a fool and tell people this crazy stuff, the

1016
01:00:15,320 --> 01:00:18,960
more comfortable they'll feel to talk too. I mean, you're

1017
01:00:19,000 --> 01:00:23,719
not judging anybody. I don't judge people's experiences. I don't

1018
01:00:24,199 --> 01:00:27,079
I don't have opinions. If you say that that's what happened,

1019
01:00:27,119 --> 01:00:30,079
then that's what happened, you know what I mean. I'm

1020
01:00:30,079 --> 01:00:34,400
not here put on this earth to question you. You

1021
01:00:34,559 --> 01:00:37,320
go have your experience, and it's you know what I mean.

1022
01:00:38,159 --> 01:00:44,400
Speaker 1: So yeah, no, I never I never judge anybody's experiences

1023
01:00:44,480 --> 01:00:45,760
because I'm.

1024
01:00:45,639 --> 01:00:47,360
Speaker 2: The last person that just should be judging.

1025
01:00:47,480 --> 01:00:51,719
Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly exactly. I've already had weirder stuff happened to me.

1026
01:00:51,840 --> 01:00:54,280
I don't want to. I don't want to, you know,

1027
01:00:54,679 --> 01:00:58,840
say hey, it didn't happen that way, or no, it

1028
01:00:58,920 --> 01:01:01,480
wasn't that it was the I've had people when I've

1029
01:01:01,519 --> 01:01:06,159
talked with them, they're so very strongly set in their

1030
01:01:06,239 --> 01:01:12,679
idea of what the UFO phenomena and the non human

1031
01:01:13,679 --> 01:01:16,440
intelligences or beings or whatever you want to call them,

1032
01:01:16,440 --> 01:01:23,199
spirits whatever what they are, that they can't see past, yeah,

1033
01:01:23,400 --> 01:01:28,639
the what they've created in their experience. And so they'll

1034
01:01:29,079 --> 01:01:32,000
you know, oh, well that was the pleiadeans that we're

1035
01:01:32,000 --> 01:01:36,719
talking to you, and you know, they're they're very positive

1036
01:01:36,800 --> 01:01:39,440
and blah blah blah blah blah, and you know, and

1037
01:01:39,440 --> 01:01:42,039
and and I just I just I nod politely.

1038
01:01:42,519 --> 01:01:44,880
Speaker 2: I don't like okay, because I don't know. You could

1039
01:01:44,880 --> 01:01:47,800
be right. I don't know, you know that, yeah, you

1040
01:01:47,840 --> 01:01:49,960
could be right, or you might not be I don't know.

1041
01:01:50,559 --> 01:01:53,000
But I'm like, yeah, I'm very fluid, and I just

1042
01:01:53,079 --> 01:01:55,840
I mean, I just roll with with it and try

1043
01:01:55,880 --> 01:01:58,840
to figure it out for myself. I can only speak

1044
01:01:58,880 --> 01:02:02,519
for myself and my experiences. I can only see from

1045
01:02:02,519 --> 01:02:05,159
my perspective. I try to see from others. You know,

1046
01:02:05,760 --> 01:02:09,320
you can be as closed minded and be positive I

1047
01:02:09,320 --> 01:02:11,639
mean for it as you can be closed minded and

1048
01:02:11,679 --> 01:02:14,039
be as and be a debunker. You know, you can

1049
01:02:14,039 --> 01:02:17,400
go too far either way. But I try to remain

1050
01:02:17,519 --> 01:02:21,639
kind of in the middle and healthily open to anything.

1051
01:02:22,440 --> 01:02:24,599
My attitude is, if you can think it, it can

1052
01:02:24,639 --> 01:02:27,559
happen somewhere. Maybe not in this planet or this dimension,

1053
01:02:27,639 --> 01:02:29,960
but somewhere. You know, if you can think it, it

1054
01:02:30,079 --> 01:02:34,159
can be and maybe we even created I don't know.

1055
01:02:34,480 --> 01:02:38,920
I'm that open minded, that's I know, but I but

1056
01:02:39,039 --> 01:02:42,440
you know, I'm just, and I change over the years

1057
01:02:42,639 --> 01:02:46,320
my opinions and thoughts about things from thirty five years ago.

1058
01:02:46,639 --> 01:02:49,400
I go back and read my diary and some of

1059
01:02:49,400 --> 01:02:51,639
the things that I wrote and things that I thought

1060
01:02:51,880 --> 01:02:55,159
back then totally different than what I feel now. But

1061
01:02:55,199 --> 01:02:59,519
I've got years of experience and years of knowledge. I've

1062
01:02:59,599 --> 01:03:03,960
learned things and met new people. My opinions may change

1063
01:03:04,280 --> 01:03:07,159
somewhat as I change and grow, you know what I mean.

1064
01:03:08,639 --> 01:03:11,800
So there's that too, you know. That's why I always

1065
01:03:11,800 --> 01:03:14,760
preface everything that I can only talk about my experience

1066
01:03:15,639 --> 01:03:18,679
and my perspective, and I could be wrong and it.

1067
01:03:18,960 --> 01:03:21,480
You know, these are my opinions. But opinions change just

1068
01:03:21,519 --> 01:03:23,480
like people do. People grow and change.

1069
01:03:23,519 --> 01:03:28,199
Speaker 1: So yeah, the facts remain the same that you know.

1070
01:03:28,280 --> 01:03:31,559
Speaker 2: When the facts start changing, that's that's when that's when. Yeah,

1071
01:03:31,599 --> 01:03:33,599
that's that's when it becomes a problem. I mean, the

1072
01:03:33,639 --> 01:03:36,599
basic fact for me, like when I tell the story

1073
01:03:36,599 --> 01:03:38,079
of the mark in the yard and how all that

1074
01:03:38,159 --> 01:03:41,320
happened and went down, it is what it is. That's

1075
01:03:41,559 --> 01:03:44,760
exactly how I remember it, and I as I tell it,

1076
01:03:45,239 --> 01:03:48,920
I'm almost reliving it, you know, And that is is

1077
01:03:48,960 --> 01:03:53,159
what it is now for what it was. That's where

1078
01:03:53,199 --> 01:03:55,880
it's like, I don't know. I'm not sure because I

1079
01:03:55,920 --> 01:04:00,039
don't and I'm not a science I'm a hairdresser and

1080
01:04:00,039 --> 01:04:02,079
I worked in a factory for fifteen years. I'm not

1081
01:04:02,159 --> 01:04:06,159
a scientist or a physicist, or well they're scientists, but

1082
01:04:06,199 --> 01:04:09,360
you know what I mean, I'm just I'm just a

1083
01:04:09,519 --> 01:04:14,519
regular person trying to get through life and have a

1084
01:04:14,559 --> 01:04:15,119
weird one.

1085
01:04:15,679 --> 01:04:22,239
Speaker 1: So yeah, yeah, have you ever run across somebody whose

1086
01:04:22,280 --> 01:04:28,079
story was just so strange that it took you aback

1087
01:04:28,159 --> 01:04:30,039
for a second or do you just roll with it

1088
01:04:30,119 --> 01:04:32,400
and go, yep, these things be happening.

1089
01:04:33,000 --> 01:04:35,599
Speaker 2: Well, yeah, I have met a few people that kind

1090
01:04:35,599 --> 01:04:39,320
of made me go wow, you know, But then I

1091
01:04:39,360 --> 01:04:42,360
try to I try to put myself in their shoes.

1092
01:04:42,440 --> 01:04:44,320
I try to and I ask questions, you know, I

1093
01:04:44,320 --> 01:04:48,639
try to ask questions that I think might be useful

1094
01:04:48,679 --> 01:04:51,360
to help me kind of maybe figure out. You know.

1095
01:04:52,280 --> 01:04:54,639
I've met some people that I don't think they want

1096
01:04:55,599 --> 01:04:57,840
to figure things out. They like it the way it is,

1097
01:04:57,880 --> 01:04:59,199
you know what I mean, or the like the way

1098
01:04:59,239 --> 01:05:03,079
they've made it in their heads. But yeah, I've met

1099
01:05:03,079 --> 01:05:05,639
a few people and their stories are like wow. But then,

1100
01:05:05,719 --> 01:05:08,079
you know, I try to take the whole person in too,

1101
01:05:08,480 --> 01:05:11,440
not just their story. I mean, I am just, I

1102
01:05:11,480 --> 01:05:15,559
am not just June thirty eighty three. I am a

1103
01:05:15,679 --> 01:05:20,320
complex you know, being with I'm like an onion with

1104
01:05:20,360 --> 01:05:23,239
so many layers, and that's why I try try to

1105
01:05:23,239 --> 01:05:26,960
look at other people. You know, I don't always when

1106
01:05:27,000 --> 01:05:30,199
I hear a really fantastical story or really something that's

1107
01:05:30,239 --> 01:05:34,159
really wild, you know, I try to look under the

1108
01:05:34,239 --> 01:05:37,719
layers and see what I can see, you know what

1109
01:05:37,760 --> 01:05:42,360
I mean, never judging, because it's not my place. I'm

1110
01:05:42,360 --> 01:05:45,639
not paying their bills, you know, I'm not paying their bills,

1111
01:05:45,679 --> 01:05:49,159
I'm not sleeping with them. You know. It's like, you know,

1112
01:05:49,480 --> 01:05:52,719
it's never my place to judge anybody. You know, everybody's

1113
01:05:52,719 --> 01:05:55,960
here to have their own experience and however they're supposed

1114
01:05:55,960 --> 01:05:59,480
to have it. Some of it's pretty interesting. I mean,

1115
01:05:59,760 --> 01:06:02,519
I've I meet a lot of really interesting, cool people.

1116
01:06:03,239 --> 01:06:07,559
I do find that the more people that have had

1117
01:06:07,679 --> 01:06:12,119
more interesting experiences, they seem to be you know, I

1118
01:06:13,119 --> 01:06:18,280
have met some of the smartest people, intelligent people. Their

1119
01:06:18,360 --> 01:06:20,880
minds just go to places I would have never dreamed,

1120
01:06:21,400 --> 01:06:23,599
but I get it. You know, I've met some of

1121
01:06:23,599 --> 01:06:28,679
the smartest people because of this whole phenomenon, and just

1122
01:06:29,119 --> 01:06:32,400
some of the most wonderful people, some of the most

1123
01:06:32,800 --> 01:06:36,880
empathic and connected and loving people that I've ever met

1124
01:06:36,920 --> 01:06:41,320
in my life, you know, because of this so there's

1125
01:06:41,360 --> 01:06:41,880
that too.

1126
01:06:43,480 --> 01:06:48,519
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I think the empathic and loving and I

1127
01:06:48,519 --> 01:06:53,400
think that's very important with this kind of phenomena to

1128
01:06:53,440 --> 01:06:58,519
extend that to other experiencers, to their I mean, and

1129
01:06:58,559 --> 01:07:01,599
to the rest of the world is well, but I

1130
01:07:02,360 --> 01:07:06,800
because of the stigma and because of the fear that

1131
01:07:06,880 --> 01:07:13,800
people have of revealing oh yeah this, this happened to me. Yeah,

1132
01:07:15,079 --> 01:07:18,880
then I think we should just be as open as

1133
01:07:18,960 --> 01:07:22,880
we can be, open hearted as we can be, and kind.

1134
01:07:23,480 --> 01:07:27,320
And I think that it does more for the world

1135
01:07:27,519 --> 01:07:29,960
to be kind to each other than.

1136
01:07:30,280 --> 01:07:34,599
Speaker 2: You know, yes, positive and a tragedy positive, you know

1137
01:07:34,679 --> 01:07:37,079
what I mean. So I feel like if you are putting,

1138
01:07:37,119 --> 01:07:41,760
if you put out positive, good thoughts and vibes and

1139
01:07:42,119 --> 01:07:47,159
and things out into the universe, into the world, it's

1140
01:07:47,199 --> 01:07:52,159
going to come back to you, you know, double triple.

1141
01:07:52,719 --> 01:07:58,519
And And I really feel strongly that what we think

1142
01:07:58,559 --> 01:08:03,480
in our heads is extremely important because I feel like

1143
01:08:04,239 --> 01:08:10,280
we are very human beings, are very powerful, energetic creatures,

1144
01:08:10,719 --> 01:08:15,000
and we are capable of things that we can't even

1145
01:08:15,480 --> 01:08:18,560
imagine that we don't remember that, we don't believe that

1146
01:08:18,640 --> 01:08:21,760
we can, but we are we can, and our thoughts

1147
01:08:21,800 --> 01:08:25,239
can change the world. Everything that you see in your room,

1148
01:08:25,720 --> 01:08:30,159
everything around you began in somebody's mind as a thought.

1149
01:08:31,439 --> 01:08:35,840
Think about that. Everything starts with a thought, Everything begins

1150
01:08:35,960 --> 01:08:39,239
right here, and we have control of that, you know.

1151
01:08:39,600 --> 01:08:42,880
So I try to be I'm human, and I get frustrated,

1152
01:08:43,079 --> 01:08:46,279
and I get annoyed with things, and you know, I

1153
01:08:46,319 --> 01:08:49,239
get it. Sometimes I get annoyed with people, and I

1154
01:08:49,359 --> 01:08:52,800
have to stop myself and take a deep breath and

1155
01:08:53,279 --> 01:08:57,439
try to pull myself up above that and say, you know,

1156
01:08:57,960 --> 01:09:02,720
just put good out there and hopefully it sticks. You know,

1157
01:09:03,039 --> 01:09:05,520
throw that spaghetti on the wall. Hopefully some of that

1158
01:09:05,560 --> 01:09:08,279
will stick. Of course, we didn't call it spaghetti. We

1159
01:09:08,319 --> 01:09:13,079
called it someuse. But you know, you know, so I

1160
01:09:14,039 --> 01:09:17,079
was braised to believe. My mom always said mind over matter,

1161
01:09:17,159 --> 01:09:21,159
mind over matter. You know, there's anything you can't accomplish

1162
01:09:21,239 --> 01:09:24,359
in your life. There's nothing that we can't accomplish together

1163
01:09:24,439 --> 01:09:28,199
as a species. If we want it bad enough and

1164
01:09:28,359 --> 01:09:30,039
we put it in our minds that we're going to

1165
01:09:30,079 --> 01:09:33,079
do it, it will happen, you know, just like they said,

1166
01:09:33,439 --> 01:09:34,640
if you build it, they'll come.

1167
01:09:36,159 --> 01:09:41,800
Speaker 1: Yeah. Didn't work with Disney in Europe, but hey, they tried,

1168
01:09:42,039 --> 01:09:42,680
they tried.

1169
01:09:43,119 --> 01:09:48,960
Speaker 2: Yeah, give them points for that, yep, but uh anyway, yeah,

1170
01:09:49,000 --> 01:09:51,359
so see, And that's another thing. My attitude about this

1171
01:09:51,840 --> 01:09:57,039
has come so far from this single mom living you know,

1172
01:09:57,399 --> 01:10:00,800
on food stamps in the section eight apartment, which where

1173
01:10:00,840 --> 01:10:02,880
I was at one point when you know my kids

1174
01:10:02,920 --> 01:10:07,399
were little, you know, to and struggling every day. And

1175
01:10:07,479 --> 01:10:10,479
I'm not you know, my husband and I retired, we're

1176
01:10:10,520 --> 01:10:12,800
on Social Security. We're not rich by any means, but

1177
01:10:12,880 --> 01:10:15,439
we have everything we need. We have food and sheltered

1178
01:10:15,439 --> 01:10:18,560
and clothing and water, much more than ninety percent of

1179
01:10:18,600 --> 01:10:21,239
the world, you know, And for that, I'm thankful and grateful,

1180
01:10:21,600 --> 01:10:25,560
but I'm full, you know. Inside. It's what you know,

1181
01:10:26,520 --> 01:10:29,479
I've grown so much and changed so much. I've awakened

1182
01:10:29,520 --> 01:10:32,000
something inside of me that's connected me to the entire

1183
01:10:32,479 --> 01:10:35,800
world and all the life in it. And it I

1184
01:10:35,840 --> 01:10:39,159
didn't used to be this person on June thirtieth, nineteen

1185
01:10:39,159 --> 01:10:41,479
eighty three. I wasn't this person I am now. But

1186
01:10:41,520 --> 01:10:43,960
I am this person I am now because of June thirtieth,

1187
01:10:44,039 --> 01:10:47,119
nineteen eighty three. Something happened that night. Something and I

1188
01:10:47,159 --> 01:10:50,279
always said, Debbie died and Debbi two point I was born.

1189
01:10:50,439 --> 01:10:53,159
Something flipped a switch in me and I went crazy

1190
01:10:53,199 --> 01:10:55,239
for a while because it was more than I could handle.

1191
01:10:55,279 --> 01:10:58,680
But I managed to to figure it out, you know,

1192
01:10:58,800 --> 01:11:02,920
and get my sea leg or whatever. I wish. I'm

1193
01:11:02,920 --> 01:11:05,640
gonna have my bff come on our show, our podcast

1194
01:11:05,680 --> 01:11:08,880
one day, because her and I were talking. We've known

1195
01:11:08,880 --> 01:11:12,560
each other fifty five years. That's how long we've been

1196
01:11:12,560 --> 01:11:16,279
in each other's life, you know. And she always says,

1197
01:11:16,560 --> 01:11:20,279
I wish that I could tell these people what a

1198
01:11:20,439 --> 01:11:23,039
change that I've seen in you over the years. You

1199
01:11:23,079 --> 01:11:28,039
know how different you are, not just physically, but mentally

1200
01:11:28,159 --> 01:11:33,479
and spiritually, the difference, you know. And I'm like, okay, well,

1201
01:11:33,479 --> 01:11:35,840
come on the show and you can tell everybody. But

1202
01:11:35,960 --> 01:11:38,239
it's you know, it is, and it's not just me.

1203
01:11:38,319 --> 01:11:41,079
I've seen this in other people that I've known for many,

1204
01:11:41,079 --> 01:11:43,279
many years and have been through similar things with me.

1205
01:11:43,359 --> 01:11:50,560
I see this pattern of change and growth mentally and spiritually,

1206
01:11:50,720 --> 01:11:54,439
psychically or you know, my experiences went from the physical

1207
01:11:54,520 --> 01:11:59,319
to the metaphysical. I guess, you know, but you know,

1208
01:12:00,279 --> 01:12:02,600
it's all connected, it's all part of it. It's all

1209
01:12:02,640 --> 01:12:10,079
that intertwined, this this network, this mesh of stuff that's

1210
01:12:10,119 --> 01:12:19,319
somehow creating this positive change. I don't know I sound

1211
01:12:19,359 --> 01:12:21,680
like a crazy ass person now, but you know.

1212
01:12:22,319 --> 01:12:26,960
Speaker 1: No, you don't that. My feeling about all of this

1213
01:12:27,239 --> 01:12:30,520
is that it's supposed to change us. It's not supposed

1214
01:12:30,560 --> 01:12:36,239
to just happen. It doesn't just happen. It happens for

1215
01:12:36,319 --> 01:12:41,159
a reason. Yes, and there are some who are unlucky.

1216
01:12:41,199 --> 01:12:45,039
It doesn't change them for the positive. I think, well,

1217
01:12:45,680 --> 01:12:50,880
something more there eventually, Yeah, it's eventually.

1218
01:12:51,119 --> 01:12:53,560
Speaker 2: Something told me a long time ago, when I was young,

1219
01:12:53,600 --> 01:12:56,199
in my twenties, something said to me, and I don't

1220
01:12:56,199 --> 01:12:58,119
know what it was or when it was how it

1221
01:12:58,159 --> 01:13:02,439
got in my head, but something said to me, don't

1222
01:13:02,479 --> 01:13:08,119
be afraid, because fear will slow it down. Fear slows

1223
01:13:08,159 --> 01:13:12,760
down the process. Don't be afraid. There's nothing to be

1224
01:13:12,880 --> 01:13:18,119
afraid of. When I participated in that Observer's podcast or

1225
01:13:18,119 --> 01:13:22,319
that Observers the documentary that was on Amazon Prime a

1226
01:13:22,399 --> 01:13:25,239
couple of years ago, and I participated in that with

1227
01:13:25,279 --> 01:13:31,720
Whitley Streeber, Linda how Jimmy, Jimmy Church, William Henry, Richard Dolan,

1228
01:13:32,319 --> 01:13:35,680
and I was asked to participate by Lynda Howe, who

1229
01:13:35,800 --> 01:13:37,720
was a friend of mine have known for twenty five years,

1230
01:13:38,119 --> 01:13:40,680
and I said yes, I would because I don't really

1231
01:13:40,760 --> 01:13:42,680
like being in front of the camera that much. I'm

1232
01:13:43,279 --> 01:13:46,000
I'm great with radio, you know, but I don't like

1233
01:13:46,520 --> 01:13:49,520
you know, I get real self conscious. But the last

1234
01:13:49,560 --> 01:13:52,720
line in that that I had, and the producer asked

1235
01:13:52,800 --> 01:13:55,399
me if there was one thing I wanted to tell

1236
01:13:55,439 --> 01:13:58,920
the people out there like me, one thing? What did

1237
01:13:58,960 --> 01:14:01,680
I think the most important message was that I wanted

1238
01:14:01,720 --> 01:14:04,520
to give. And I had preyed on this and I'm

1239
01:14:04,560 --> 01:14:06,439
not even religious, but I had the night before. I'm like,

1240
01:14:06,479 --> 01:14:08,399
put the words in my mouth. What is it that

1241
01:14:08,479 --> 01:14:11,840
I'm supposed to say? What? You know, make it come

1242
01:14:11,880 --> 01:14:13,640
out of my mouth when it needs to, you know,

1243
01:14:13,840 --> 01:14:16,239
just guide to help me because I don't. I don't.

1244
01:14:16,399 --> 01:14:18,119
I don't know why I'm here, but I am so

1245
01:14:18,359 --> 01:14:23,479
use it, use me whatever. I opened my mouth and

1246
01:14:23,720 --> 01:14:25,119
the only thing I could think of to say was

1247
01:14:25,199 --> 01:14:31,520
don't be afraid. And that was it. They ended the

1248
01:14:31,560 --> 01:14:35,680
whole That was the last line of the whole documentary.

1249
01:14:35,800 --> 01:14:36,600
Don't be afraid.

1250
01:14:39,079 --> 01:14:42,239
Speaker 1: That's funny. Little always say.

1251
01:14:42,680 --> 01:14:47,319
Speaker 2: We're we're We're still here. I mean, look what we

1252
01:14:47,399 --> 01:14:50,119
do to each other. If I were an alien species

1253
01:14:50,119 --> 01:14:51,960
flying around and I happen to see a planet with

1254
01:14:52,000 --> 01:14:55,439
a bunch of fools like this down here, I'd be like, bye, bam.

1255
01:14:55,720 --> 01:14:58,159
You know, if they if they wanted to get back,

1256
01:14:58,399 --> 01:15:00,399
you know, if they wanted to get rid of it us.

1257
01:15:01,760 --> 01:15:04,520
I believe that would have happened quite a long time ago.

1258
01:15:05,039 --> 01:15:07,039
You know. There may be some species out there like

1259
01:15:07,600 --> 01:15:11,920
those things are nuts. Just eradicate them, get rid of them.

1260
01:15:11,960 --> 01:15:14,359
They're worthless. Then there might be another species that like,

1261
01:15:14,439 --> 01:15:16,720
oh no, they're cute, just like I do with my

1262
01:15:16,800 --> 01:15:21,359
Oh I love my doggies, you know. But I feel

1263
01:15:21,359 --> 01:15:24,560
like if we were going to be extincted by something

1264
01:15:25,359 --> 01:15:27,840
out there, we had already be gone. We're here for

1265
01:15:27,880 --> 01:15:33,119
a reason, yeah, and somebody wants us here. And I

1266
01:15:33,199 --> 01:15:37,640
see so much beauty in the world. There are so

1267
01:15:37,720 --> 01:15:41,359
many absolutely gorgeous places on this planet that take your

1268
01:15:41,399 --> 01:15:45,279
breath away. I have seen beauty in a human being

1269
01:15:45,520 --> 01:15:49,119
spirit that brings me to tears, and I can't even

1270
01:15:49,279 --> 01:15:53,279
speak because of somebody and the beauty that I've seen

1271
01:15:53,319 --> 01:15:56,560
in a single living human being, you know, sitting on

1272
01:15:56,600 --> 01:15:59,119
the side of the road, when I see a person

1273
01:15:59,239 --> 01:16:02,039
in the sidewalk homeless and people are stepping over them,

1274
01:16:02,199 --> 01:16:05,359
I don't see a homeless person. I see somebody's child

1275
01:16:05,600 --> 01:16:08,039
and I want to hug them and I want them

1276
01:16:08,119 --> 01:16:10,439
to know that someone loves them, you know what I mean.

1277
01:16:11,720 --> 01:16:14,760
This is the only place in the universe that you

1278
01:16:14,800 --> 01:16:19,439
can feel that that's important, you know, and it's here,

1279
01:16:19,840 --> 01:16:22,600
and I just want people to connect with that, and

1280
01:16:23,199 --> 01:16:26,239
don't be afraid, and don't be afraid. There's a line

1281
01:16:26,279 --> 01:16:30,840
in a song that I it's seen. It sounds very corny,

1282
01:16:30,840 --> 01:16:35,039
but it's the soul afraid of dying that never learns

1283
01:16:35,079 --> 01:16:39,239
to live, you know. And you know, I had a

1284
01:16:39,279 --> 01:16:42,000
near death experience when I gave birth to my son,

1285
01:16:42,760 --> 01:16:44,960
you know, my oldest son, who's forty five now. I

1286
01:16:44,960 --> 01:16:48,159
had a near death experience almost I died twice, actually

1287
01:16:48,239 --> 01:16:51,720
had to be revived twice, but when and that changed me,

1288
01:16:52,000 --> 01:16:54,760
and that changed the way I thought about death. I know,

1289
01:16:54,840 --> 01:16:57,159
we don't. I don't cry at funerals, and people look

1290
01:16:57,159 --> 01:17:00,840
at me like I'm crazy or are disrespectful. But there

1291
01:17:02,119 --> 01:17:07,359
there's not They're not gone, They're just moved on, you

1292
01:17:07,399 --> 01:17:09,880
know what I mean. I see things differently than people.

1293
01:17:09,920 --> 01:17:12,920
I see things differently than other people now, and I

1294
01:17:13,039 --> 01:17:17,159
sometimes it's hard to verbalize for me, I'm not the

1295
01:17:17,159 --> 01:17:19,359
best speaker in the world. I'm not the best writer

1296
01:17:19,439 --> 01:17:21,239
in the world. Sometimes it's really hard for me to

1297
01:17:21,239 --> 01:17:24,119
get my emotions across to people. And I feel like

1298
01:17:24,159 --> 01:17:25,640
it would be so much easier if I could just

1299
01:17:25,680 --> 01:17:27,920
go inside of you and you could feel me for

1300
01:17:27,960 --> 01:17:30,039
a second and know it all that what I know,

1301
01:17:30,560 --> 01:17:34,199
and then we be done. But then I realize, you know,

1302
01:17:34,399 --> 01:17:36,439
that might be easy, but then it's not going to

1303
01:17:36,520 --> 01:17:38,640
mean what to you? Is it meant to me? You

1304
01:17:38,760 --> 01:17:41,560
have to come to it a certain way in your

1305
01:17:41,600 --> 01:17:44,279
own time for it to be meaning to you what

1306
01:17:44,279 --> 01:17:49,920
it needs to mean, you know. So bang way, Yeah,

1307
01:17:50,039 --> 01:17:50,920
there's that too.

1308
01:17:52,920 --> 01:17:56,960
Speaker 1: I thought that people who cry at funerals aren't crying

1309
01:17:57,039 --> 01:18:01,279
for the dead. They're crying for themselves because they missed them.

1310
01:18:01,920 --> 01:18:04,199
Speaker 2: And I get that, you know, and that's cool. I

1311
01:18:04,279 --> 01:18:08,119
cried when my mom died, But then some should happen

1312
01:18:08,319 --> 01:18:12,600
that night, which she promised me that we had this

1313
01:18:12,920 --> 01:18:15,840
pact that we were gonna if she could do anything

1314
01:18:15,880 --> 01:18:17,960
at all to let me know I was right, that

1315
01:18:18,039 --> 01:18:20,119
we would go on that she would, and she did,

1316
01:18:20,960 --> 01:18:24,680
and from that moment on, I was elated, and I

1317
01:18:24,760 --> 01:18:28,079
was good, you know, I realized with her, with my

1318
01:18:28,159 --> 01:18:30,279
mother's death, with my mother in law's death, with my

1319
01:18:30,439 --> 01:18:35,760
husband's death, I realized, you know, this is just there.

1320
01:18:36,640 --> 01:18:38,760
This is just going to be a different way of living.

1321
01:18:39,680 --> 01:18:41,840
You know. I started referring to my body as that

1322
01:18:42,000 --> 01:18:44,720
meat sack full of water I'm driving around in that's

1323
01:18:44,760 --> 01:18:45,840
starting to fall apart.

1324
01:18:50,520 --> 01:18:54,439
Speaker 1: Yeah, it does have a warrant used by date.

1325
01:18:56,439 --> 01:19:02,880
Speaker 2: I think mine expired about three months ago. But yeah,

1326
01:19:02,880 --> 01:19:05,520
I'm gonna keep driving this bus until the wheels fall off,

1327
01:19:05,600 --> 01:19:10,359
I guess. But but yeah, see things like that, that's

1328
01:19:10,840 --> 01:19:14,960
how I changed. The experiences that I've had have created

1329
01:19:15,000 --> 01:19:17,199
this and have shaped me and molded me in this way.

1330
01:19:17,920 --> 01:19:21,680
I've also had strange I've also had traumatic experiences just

1331
01:19:21,800 --> 01:19:25,159
regular life, you know. I think you read in the book. Yeah,

1332
01:19:25,439 --> 01:19:28,600
I mean my husband, my late husband committed suicide. He

1333
01:19:28,600 --> 01:19:31,279
did it in front of me, with the twelve games,

1334
01:19:31,279 --> 01:19:33,680
me and all the sheriffs in Howard County, you know.

1335
01:19:34,920 --> 01:19:37,039
But I can talk about it now. It's thirty years

1336
01:19:37,079 --> 01:19:38,840
some years ago. But I can talk about it and

1337
01:19:38,960 --> 01:19:40,800
I don't cry. I mean I can think about him

1338
01:19:40,800 --> 01:19:44,840
and feel happy and remember the things and know that,

1339
01:19:46,479 --> 01:19:49,680
you know, whatever the powers are that be felt that

1340
01:19:50,279 --> 01:19:52,159
for whatever reason, I needed to be there, that I

1341
01:19:52,159 --> 01:19:54,119
would be strong enough to be there in his hour

1342
01:19:54,159 --> 01:19:57,079
of need. And I was. It taught me that I'm

1343
01:19:57,279 --> 01:20:00,359
stronger than I ever gave myself credit for. And I

1344
01:20:00,399 --> 01:20:03,640
came through this and beyond this, and I you know,

1345
01:20:04,079 --> 01:20:06,479
and I think I'm here to help other people in

1346
01:20:06,479 --> 01:20:09,439
this situation come through this, to reach my hand out

1347
01:20:09,479 --> 01:20:11,760
for them so they can come through too, you know.

1348
01:20:12,439 --> 01:20:15,479
And the tornado, good god. I mean I had a

1349
01:20:15,640 --> 01:20:19,479
house drop on me then and lost everything I owned

1350
01:20:19,479 --> 01:20:23,119
in twenty thirteen, you know, I started thinking, who did

1351
01:20:23,119 --> 01:20:26,199
I piss off? You know, I've had a lot of

1352
01:20:26,760 --> 01:20:30,800
trauma that isn't even UFO related or weird related, you know,

1353
01:20:31,159 --> 01:20:35,760
and I just keep drugging along. Good therapy helps too,

1354
01:20:36,159 --> 01:20:39,920
But you know what therapy is beautiful and it is

1355
01:20:40,119 --> 01:20:43,399
it is, it is. I suggest it for everyone. My

1356
01:20:43,479 --> 01:20:46,119
therapist knows about my weird woo woo stuff. She's read

1357
01:20:46,119 --> 01:20:50,239
my book, and I mean she's cool. We've even done

1358
01:20:50,279 --> 01:20:55,199
EMDR therapy on the June thirty eighty three incident because

1359
01:20:55,199 --> 01:20:58,239
it was so traumatic, you know, and this has been

1360
01:20:58,319 --> 01:21:02,119
very helpful. I wish everyone had trauma could do that.

1361
01:21:02,159 --> 01:21:05,000
I really do. Never be afraid to ask for help

1362
01:21:05,000 --> 01:21:05,560
if you need it.

1363
01:21:06,800 --> 01:21:07,319
Speaker 1: Yeah.

1364
01:21:07,399 --> 01:21:09,159
Speaker 2: If you don't need some help sometime or another, you

1365
01:21:09,159 --> 01:21:09,640
ain't living.

1366
01:21:10,840 --> 01:21:14,560
Speaker 1: Yeah. And most therapists are way more open minded about

1367
01:21:14,600 --> 01:21:16,319
weird stuff than you think they would.

1368
01:21:16,159 --> 01:21:20,760
Speaker 2: Be, especially nowadays. I mean I don't I wouldn't have

1369
01:21:21,199 --> 01:21:23,119
you know, thirty years ago, I wouldn't have mentioned it,

1370
01:21:23,159 --> 01:21:25,640
but I got you know, now I find this a

1371
01:21:25,680 --> 01:21:30,439
woman I thought, damn, you know, if I'm gonna get

1372
01:21:30,479 --> 01:21:33,319
a hold of this anxiety thing that I've wrestled with

1373
01:21:33,399 --> 01:21:36,880
since I was a child, then I need to put

1374
01:21:36,960 --> 01:21:38,560
all my cards out on the table. I need to

1375
01:21:38,560 --> 01:21:41,520
work on all of it, not just select pieces like

1376
01:21:41,800 --> 01:21:45,039
cherry pick, because it's all part of me, you know,

1377
01:21:45,159 --> 01:21:48,560
the good, the bad, and the ugly. So it's been

1378
01:21:48,640 --> 01:21:53,640
great anyways, thanks for taking the time to have me on.

1379
01:21:53,760 --> 01:21:54,560
I appreciate it.

1380
01:21:55,199 --> 01:21:57,239
Speaker 1: You are welcome, and you're welcome to come back if

1381
01:21:57,279 --> 01:21:59,800
you want to if you ever have something you need

1382
01:21:59,800 --> 01:22:02,560
to say and don't want to do it just on

1383
01:22:02,600 --> 01:22:04,680
your podcast. You're welcome online anytime.

1384
01:22:04,840 --> 01:22:06,800
Speaker 2: Oh, I appreciate it. I appreciate it. And you know what,

1385
01:22:06,880 --> 01:22:09,880
I have a website too, if you want to put

1386
01:22:09,880 --> 01:22:10,399
it in there.

1387
01:22:11,079 --> 01:22:12,840
Speaker 1: I will put it in the show notes for sure.

1388
01:22:12,960 --> 01:22:17,800
Speaker 2: Yeah. It's it's deb'shome dot www dot deb'shome dot com.

1389
01:22:18,359 --> 01:22:21,039
I've had this web I've had this website for about

1390
01:22:21,079 --> 01:22:25,039
twenty five years and it's full of science news and

1391
01:22:25,520 --> 01:22:29,720
you know uap ufo, you know news and stuff like that.

1392
01:22:29,760 --> 01:22:32,800
There's some stuff in there about you know, things that

1393
01:22:32,800 --> 01:22:35,119
have happened to me and people can get to know

1394
01:22:35,199 --> 01:22:37,800
me a little better and know the event. And there's pictures.

1395
01:22:38,319 --> 01:22:40,840
There's some of my art on there that I need

1396
01:22:40,840 --> 01:22:43,399
to update that terribly if that part is a little old.

1397
01:22:43,840 --> 01:22:46,800
But the most important thing is that you can write

1398
01:22:46,840 --> 01:22:49,560
to me through that. My my emails connected to that,

1399
01:22:50,079 --> 01:22:52,079
So people can write to me if they want to

1400
01:22:52,079 --> 01:22:55,600
share their experience with me, and it will go nowhere else,

1401
01:22:55,840 --> 01:22:58,199
you know, but to me if they want and that,

1402
01:22:58,399 --> 01:23:00,720
but they just so I'm there and they can reach

1403
01:23:00,760 --> 01:23:03,319
out and I always try to answer every email that

1404
01:23:03,399 --> 01:23:06,520
I get. I had a post office box for years

1405
01:23:06,560 --> 01:23:11,319
before you know, the computer and stuff. So but yeah,

1406
01:23:11,319 --> 01:23:12,760
so if you could put that on there and then

1407
01:23:12,760 --> 01:23:15,159
people can if they want to contact me, they can

1408
01:23:15,239 --> 01:23:16,720
contact me through my website.

1409
01:23:17,640 --> 01:23:19,439
Speaker 1: Definitely, that's awesome.

1410
01:23:19,479 --> 01:23:21,399
Speaker 2: I appreciate that. Thank you so much.

1411
01:23:22,239 --> 01:23:22,640
Speaker 1: Thank you.

1412
01:23:24,600 --> 01:23:26,800
Speaker 3: Well, that's all for this week's episode of the Six

1413
01:23:26,880 --> 01:23:30,640
Degrees of John Keel podcast. If you have any questions

1414
01:23:30,720 --> 01:23:33,159
or thoughts about the podcast, or would like to come

1415
01:23:33,199 --> 01:23:36,560
and talk about your experiences of the paranormal, you can

1416
01:23:36,640 --> 01:23:41,359
contact us at six D JK six seven at gmail

1417
01:23:41,439 --> 01:23:45,880
dot com. We promised even answer you, and we are

1418
01:23:46,000 --> 01:23:47,520
always happy to hear from you.

1419
01:23:48,439 --> 01:24:17,479
Speaker 2: Thank you spill a spoil having

1420
01:24:25,359 --> 01:24:25,600
Speaker 1: Spe