WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.080 --> 00:00:05.160 Yeah, you know where about years ago when he won the. 2 00:00:07.759 --> 00:00:19.719 Oh sorry, you least if he's alone. People say, I 3 00:00:19.800 --> 00:00:21.199 have friends everywhere. 4 00:00:24.280 --> 00:00:27.559 I have friends everywhere. 5 00:00:28.679 --> 00:00:31.399 Those words. 6 00:00:50.600 --> 00:00:52.799 Okay, we've reached the end of June and this is 7 00:00:52.880 --> 00:00:57.479 Gloff culture, and boy are we spread out across America. 8 00:00:58.439 --> 00:01:04.000 We got Jonah Goldberg and Aspen, Colorado. Hi, Jonah, Hey John, 9 00:01:04.640 --> 00:01:08.400 You've got Rob Long in Princeton, New Jersey on a 10 00:01:08.480 --> 00:01:13.239 telephone because, as you may know, Princeton University not a 11 00:01:13.239 --> 00:01:15.319 friend to the Jews, and the Jews seem to have 12 00:01:15.439 --> 00:01:20.519 knocked out the internet in Princeton, New Jersey, thus leaving 13 00:01:20.599 --> 00:01:24.000 him solely on an iPhone. Is that right? I guess 14 00:01:24.079 --> 00:01:24.200 you know. 15 00:01:24.239 --> 00:01:27.680 It's funny because I I usually blame the Jews for 16 00:01:27.760 --> 00:01:29.799 everything but kind of tongue in cheic, and now you're 17 00:01:29.840 --> 00:01:31.200 telling me that I was right all along. 18 00:01:31.920 --> 00:01:33.760 Well, there you go. You know what, if we're gonna 19 00:01:33.760 --> 00:01:36.400 get blamed for it, we're going to take credit for it. Also, then, 20 00:01:36.439 --> 00:01:37.599 Wired buddy. 21 00:01:37.640 --> 00:01:39.680 I was going to say, you haven't knocked out my 22 00:01:40.079 --> 00:01:42.079 all my internet. I still have a lot of internet 23 00:01:42.079 --> 00:01:44.920 capability left. It's got a ah ju kind of a 24 00:01:45.040 --> 00:01:45.760 half job. 25 00:01:45.959 --> 00:01:47.599 I think you're celebrating a little too soon. 26 00:01:48.000 --> 00:01:52.400 I you know what, according to my after battle reports, 27 00:01:52.680 --> 00:01:56.599 I believe that you are down to about three percent 28 00:01:57.159 --> 00:02:01.319 Internet and should try to use your Internet. I do 29 00:02:01.400 --> 00:02:04.480 want to know whether whether or not you are actually 30 00:02:04.519 --> 00:02:05.040 going to. 31 00:02:06.680 --> 00:02:09.039 We're going to shut you down according to the Jews 32 00:02:09.039 --> 00:02:12.319 that run Verizon or whatever I have, I don't think 33 00:02:12.360 --> 00:02:13.039 it's not Horizon. 34 00:02:13.159 --> 00:02:16.960 So you have Exfinityinity, because I just got a report 35 00:02:17.039 --> 00:02:18.960 from the Jews that you have Exfinity. 36 00:02:19.039 --> 00:02:21.039 According to the Jews that run Exfinity, I'll can have 37 00:02:21.080 --> 00:02:23.639 it back in twenty minutes, by seven twenty, they say 38 00:02:23.680 --> 00:02:24.280 seven twenty. 39 00:02:24.360 --> 00:02:26.639 So you know, I don't know. Look, I mean, I 40 00:02:26.639 --> 00:02:27.879 think you'rey maturely. 41 00:02:27.560 --> 00:02:32.240 John, Jonah, Hey, John, let me just ask you as 42 00:02:32.240 --> 00:02:34.639 you you're an Aspen I believe you're at the Aspen 43 00:02:35.240 --> 00:02:39.960 Ideas Festival. Has your brain grown with the with the 44 00:02:40.000 --> 00:02:43.319 incredible intellection on display at the Aspen Ideas, But do 45 00:02:43.360 --> 00:02:47.960 you feel yourself coursing with ideas, new ideas, fresh ideas, 46 00:02:48.199 --> 00:02:51.680 the ideas of the sort that can create an Antichrist 47 00:02:51.719 --> 00:02:53.719 and Peter thel which we'll get to in a minute. 48 00:02:54.199 --> 00:02:59.960 So the short answer is no. But I want to 49 00:03:00.159 --> 00:03:02.520 a little kind because they've been very gracious hosts to 50 00:03:02.560 --> 00:03:06.039 me and they treated me very well here. At the 51 00:03:06.039 --> 00:03:13.840 same time, I'm not one for interfacing networking, uh confabbing, 52 00:03:15.599 --> 00:03:19.719 and the amount of that sort of thing and weird 53 00:03:19.759 --> 00:03:24.639 words for like having a conversation has left me exhausted. 54 00:03:25.360 --> 00:03:28.240 The order people have emailed me to say, Hey, I 55 00:03:28.280 --> 00:03:30.280 see you're gonna be an Aspen. Do you want to 56 00:03:30.319 --> 00:03:35.000 talk about what we're doing to prevent Gerbil famine in 57 00:03:35.120 --> 00:03:39.280 Biafra or whatever? Is just it's just exhausting. 58 00:03:40.159 --> 00:03:42.199 But that's what Richard Gear said. 59 00:03:42.719 --> 00:03:45.960 Yeah, I know where you're going. You can't even drop 60 00:03:46.000 --> 00:03:49.039 a Gerbil reference without like, now, we're not even getting. 61 00:03:48.800 --> 00:03:53.919 That, Missoul, and we're gonna have to do a damage report. 62 00:03:54.240 --> 00:03:56.960 So I'm just going to be you and me Jonah 63 00:03:57.319 --> 00:04:00.840 talking here as as we do on a case, not 64 00:04:00.879 --> 00:04:02.400 only there, but just in life. 65 00:04:02.759 --> 00:04:05.039 Yeah, I mean, I would like maybe, uh, maybe we 66 00:04:05.120 --> 00:04:07.000 even turned this into a cross promoted remnant. 67 00:04:07.000 --> 00:04:10.280 Who knows there we got a cross promoted remnant? Yeah? Yeah, 68 00:04:10.280 --> 00:04:13.120 why not? Because because it's the two of us. Okay, 69 00:04:13.560 --> 00:04:17.439 so if it's the two of us, let's figure out 70 00:04:17.560 --> 00:04:19.000 what earth. So let me ask you, John, have you 71 00:04:19.040 --> 00:04:22.439 ever been to Aspen. I have never been to ask them, 72 00:04:22.879 --> 00:04:27.399 so I recommend SI ski. 73 00:04:27.759 --> 00:04:29.639 So it's very expensive here. 74 00:04:29.720 --> 00:04:30.759 It is not a billionaire. 75 00:04:31.600 --> 00:04:34.560 It is mind bogglingly the expensive. This morning, just to 76 00:04:34.560 --> 00:04:37.920 give you a level setting, I got three cups of 77 00:04:38.000 --> 00:04:42.439 black coffee, like regular drip coffee, twelve ounce cups, not 78 00:04:42.439 --> 00:04:45.560 even like the big sixteen kind of ounce cups, and 79 00:04:45.639 --> 00:04:48.680 two muffins forty nine dollars. 80 00:04:50.439 --> 00:04:53.439 Well, you know, it's really expensive to haul stuff up 81 00:04:53.439 --> 00:04:56.079 the mountain base. I got to haul it up the 82 00:04:56.120 --> 00:04:59.600 mountain with these workers who, as I remember reading, like, 83 00:04:59.720 --> 00:05:02.040 have to live three hours away and somehow get there 84 00:05:02.079 --> 00:05:05.360 and then get home three hours back. I don't really care. 85 00:05:05.800 --> 00:05:08.199 I mean it's fine. Everybody I know who lives in 86 00:05:08.240 --> 00:05:10.759 Aspen loves Aspen or has a house and Aspen they 87 00:05:10.759 --> 00:05:12.879 don't even live. And no one lives in Aspen except 88 00:05:12.959 --> 00:05:15.600 rich people go to Aspen to ski. And then there 89 00:05:15.600 --> 00:05:18.199 are people work in the shops or their ski bums 90 00:05:17.920 --> 00:05:21.439 who who teach them skiing. So everybody should they should 91 00:05:21.480 --> 00:05:24.800 only enjoy and have a wonderful time, and you should 92 00:05:24.800 --> 00:05:26.800 have one full time at the Ideas Festival. 93 00:05:27.120 --> 00:05:28.519 I'm done with the Ideas festival. I mean, I might 94 00:05:28.519 --> 00:05:29.959 go to a party tonight, but I'm leaving in the 95 00:05:29.959 --> 00:05:34.000 morning and my wife. I brought my wife with me 96 00:05:34.879 --> 00:05:38.439 and we went to the Aspen Farmers Market, yes and 97 00:05:38.920 --> 00:05:42.720 a local had warned me that the Aspen Farmers Market 98 00:05:43.759 --> 00:05:48.920 is uh is all lip filler and doodles. 99 00:05:49.879 --> 00:05:50.959 What are doodles? 100 00:05:51.079 --> 00:05:52.000 What do you like? 101 00:05:52.120 --> 00:05:56.720 Laberdoodle, Bernie doodle, all of those doodles being like dogs. 102 00:05:56.759 --> 00:05:57.560 They sell dogs. 103 00:05:57.560 --> 00:06:00.839 It's like the dogs in Aspen, doodles of one kind. 104 00:06:00.920 --> 00:06:02.800 I thought you were going to tell me about stuff 105 00:06:02.839 --> 00:06:06.839 being woke at the a or something at the Aspen 106 00:06:07.399 --> 00:06:10.160 No farmer's market like the Park Slope co Op. 107 00:06:11.759 --> 00:06:16.360 I mean, I was saying to somebody yesterday that, you know, 108 00:06:16.399 --> 00:06:19.079 you walk around the Aspen Farmers Market and there are 109 00:06:19.079 --> 00:06:23.879 a lot of tinctures of mountain mushroom things and clever 110 00:06:24.000 --> 00:06:29.120 soaps and candles and aroma therapy things. And I was like, 111 00:06:30.800 --> 00:06:35.800 where's the one table for the bored husband son, you know, 112 00:06:35.920 --> 00:06:39.079 the dude who just wants to see cool knives? Like 113 00:06:39.120 --> 00:06:41.519 there should have been one table with like just cool 114 00:06:41.560 --> 00:06:45.319 masculine things, and there was none. It was all skewed 115 00:06:45.360 --> 00:06:52.000 towards UH, very attractive women with lip filler walking doodles. 116 00:06:51.560 --> 00:06:55.279 And we are, of course you're talking about. Isn't that 117 00:06:55.879 --> 00:06:59.879 Lauren Bobert's district or it's right next to Lauren Bobert's district. 118 00:07:00.160 --> 00:07:03.040 I thought it was like Colorado Springs or something like that. 119 00:07:03.240 --> 00:07:05.759 I could be wrong. I'm wrong about many things, but 120 00:07:05.879 --> 00:07:08.040 I do know that, yes, there are many right wing 121 00:07:08.079 --> 00:07:13.079 people in Colorado. Not an assmen, not an Aspen. Okay. 122 00:07:13.279 --> 00:07:15.560 I wanted to share with you one woke piece of 123 00:07:15.600 --> 00:07:18.279 information because there's been a lot of talk on the 124 00:07:18.319 --> 00:07:20.519 right about how the woke is dead. Woke is dead. 125 00:07:20.639 --> 00:07:25.160 You know, people are really understanding now that everything went 126 00:07:25.199 --> 00:07:27.879 too far and people have got to pull it back 127 00:07:27.920 --> 00:07:29.879 and all of that. But I went to the theater yesterday. 128 00:07:29.920 --> 00:07:33.319 I went to see a new version of Pirates Dependzance 129 00:07:33.399 --> 00:07:38.360 on Broadway called Pirates depend Zance Musical at the Roundabout Theater, 130 00:07:38.560 --> 00:07:41.480 a theater company that's been around for like forty fifty 131 00:07:41.560 --> 00:07:45.759 years and is not noted for being particularly political. It 132 00:07:45.879 --> 00:07:47.600 is one of the few theater companies which I can 133 00:07:47.680 --> 00:07:51.480 say they do not look to stage extremely political things. 134 00:07:51.560 --> 00:07:55.839 Oh my gosh, it is Rob Long has returned to 135 00:07:56.120 --> 00:07:59.639 our broadcast here. How do I say, I am a 136 00:08:00.079 --> 00:08:04.759 sound good? Does it sound good to you? Now you're 137 00:08:04.800 --> 00:08:07.120 sounding bad? Okay? Oh go ahead. 138 00:08:08.639 --> 00:08:11.000 Well it was that I that the solution might be 139 00:08:11.079 --> 00:08:12.720 just to go on my phone and on my iPad. 140 00:08:12.720 --> 00:08:14.040 But apparently that's not a solution. 141 00:08:14.480 --> 00:08:17.480 No, Now it seems fine. You sound okay, You sound okay. 142 00:08:17.560 --> 00:08:19.839 Let's see how it goes, because we've already established as 143 00:08:19.879 --> 00:08:22.639 a baseline that you are going in and out, so 144 00:08:22.680 --> 00:08:24.879 if you go out, you'll go out. I just want 145 00:08:24.879 --> 00:08:28.199 to finish my story about going to the Roundabout Theater 146 00:08:28.319 --> 00:08:31.800 to see Pirates the Penzance Musical, as it's now called. 147 00:08:31.839 --> 00:08:34.600 It's Parts of Pendzance, but it's set in eighteen eighty 148 00:08:34.639 --> 00:08:39.799 in New Orleans. First half is fantastic, second half not 149 00:08:39.840 --> 00:08:42.480 so good. But that's because they said it New Orleans. 150 00:08:42.519 --> 00:08:44.039 And the great joke at the end of the Parts 151 00:08:44.039 --> 00:08:46.080 of Penzance is that all the pirates turn out to 152 00:08:46.120 --> 00:08:51.720 be noblemen's children, and they and they they come back 153 00:08:52.159 --> 00:08:54.840 into the gentry, you know, into the nobility, and they 154 00:08:54.919 --> 00:08:57.120 worship the queen and everything ends. And of course you 155 00:08:57.159 --> 00:09:00.320 can't have that in America. But here's the point in 156 00:09:00.360 --> 00:09:03.639 the lobby of the Roundabout Theater, there was a huge poster, 157 00:09:03.879 --> 00:09:07.679 and the poster says, we're all in this together. Theater 158 00:09:07.759 --> 00:09:10.159 exists only with an audience, and at Roundabout we're committed 159 00:09:10.159 --> 00:09:13.840 to getting better and better at welcoming everyone. So please 160 00:09:14.120 --> 00:09:18.200 feel free to engage with the show, genuinely, show kindness 161 00:09:18.240 --> 00:09:22.559 toward each other, don't judge others' responses, and don't presume 162 00:09:22.639 --> 00:09:26.240 you know someone else's story as they experience the show. 163 00:09:27.120 --> 00:09:31.159 And then, in big capital letters, we all play an 164 00:09:31.200 --> 00:09:37.440 ongoing part to dismantle racism, ableism, colonialism, discrimination based on 165 00:09:37.559 --> 00:09:42.279 gender identity and sexual orientation, and all other forms of oppression. 166 00:09:42.679 --> 00:09:46.240 Roundabout reserves the right to relocate or remove any person 167 00:09:46.519 --> 00:09:50.440 who disregards our intention to make our theaters and events 168 00:09:50.799 --> 00:09:57.559 welcoming and accessible to all. So they're trying to dismantle 169 00:09:58.679 --> 00:10:02.840 all forms of oppression, and they are thereby going to 170 00:10:02.919 --> 00:10:07.360 oppress anybody who objects to the means by which they 171 00:10:07.399 --> 00:10:14.240 are going to repress oppression or something. So this is 172 00:10:14.279 --> 00:10:16.639 why I say that while many people on the right 173 00:10:16.799 --> 00:10:21.120 think that wokeism is done, it ain't done. And now 174 00:10:21.240 --> 00:10:24.519 Rob is done because he is gone, he might come back, 175 00:10:25.240 --> 00:10:29.080 maybe he's horrified by what I said. Jonah, what is 176 00:10:29.120 --> 00:10:33.200 your experience with the supposed death of Woke, because I 177 00:10:33.200 --> 00:10:38.960 think we're prematurely saluting the death of Woke. Yeah, I 178 00:10:39.200 --> 00:10:39.840 see all. 179 00:10:39.759 --> 00:10:42.440 Of that kind of stuff as I mean, you and 180 00:10:42.519 --> 00:10:44.440 I are older though, to remember that before Woke there 181 00:10:44.519 --> 00:10:50.320 was political correctness, right, and like I see that as like, uh, 182 00:10:50.720 --> 00:10:54.000 like you know, tides in a wetland, you know, they 183 00:10:54.039 --> 00:10:58.840 come in, it goes out. I do think we are 184 00:10:58.840 --> 00:11:00.720 not going to see the high wa water mark of 185 00:11:00.840 --> 00:11:04.240 woke again for a while, but we're still going to 186 00:11:04.320 --> 00:11:07.360 have to walk through some sludgy wokeness from time to 187 00:11:07.440 --> 00:11:10.639 time to extend the metaphor inpermissibly. 188 00:11:11.519 --> 00:11:13.399 I like it. I like that metaphor. I think it's 189 00:11:13.440 --> 00:11:16.360 an excellent metaphor. You know what else is a little woke, 190 00:11:16.440 --> 00:11:18.399 But it's like one of the best things I've ever 191 00:11:18.440 --> 00:11:22.159 seen is the show The Pit. I feel it necessary 192 00:11:22.200 --> 00:11:27.000 to praise The Pit unreservedly. I've now seen seven episodes 193 00:11:27.000 --> 00:11:31.120 of the fifteen episode show, which is about one shift 194 00:11:31.279 --> 00:11:36.039 in an er in Pittsburgh. So each hour sort of 195 00:11:36.039 --> 00:11:38.919 like twenty four is an hour? Is it elapsed hour 196 00:11:38.960 --> 00:11:41.919 of time on one shift? And so I'm now an 197 00:11:41.919 --> 00:11:45.240 hour seven and it's about the best hospital show I've 198 00:11:45.240 --> 00:11:47.960 ever seen. It's by the people who made Er. In fact, 199 00:11:48.519 --> 00:11:51.679 there is a lawsuit in which the Michael Crichton the 200 00:11:51.720 --> 00:11:54.279 state claims that it was supposed to be a sequel 201 00:11:54.279 --> 00:11:56.799 to Er and they should get part of the profits. 202 00:11:57.519 --> 00:12:03.240 But it is just almost like the platonic ideal of 203 00:12:03.279 --> 00:12:07.440 a hospital show set entirely inside the hospital. You are 204 00:12:07.480 --> 00:12:10.720 on a shift in a hospital. There are doctors, there 205 00:12:10.759 --> 00:12:13.600 are patients, There are little patient stories. The doctors each 206 00:12:13.600 --> 00:12:17.200 have private lives. And as the show unfolds over these 207 00:12:17.279 --> 00:12:20.120 fifteen hours, and as I say, I've only watched seven 208 00:12:20.159 --> 00:12:22.960 of them, you learn who the doctors are, you learn 209 00:12:23.080 --> 00:12:25.600 what their relationships are, you learn about the nurses, you 210 00:12:25.679 --> 00:12:28.480 learn about the patients, and all of it is done 211 00:12:29.080 --> 00:12:33.840 in the same kind of heart pounding, quick moving camera, 212 00:12:33.919 --> 00:12:36.879 always moving way where you're moving from one patient to another, 213 00:12:36.960 --> 00:12:39.519 to another doctor, to a resident, to an intern, to 214 00:12:39.600 --> 00:12:42.960 a nurse, to the waiting room and so on. And 215 00:12:43.039 --> 00:12:46.679 it's a sensational achievement in television. 216 00:12:46.919 --> 00:12:48.559 So I have not seen it. I've heard a lot 217 00:12:48.600 --> 00:12:51.720 of buzz about it. My wife watched it without me 218 00:12:51.919 --> 00:12:56.200 I was traveling or something, some deep betrayal there, and 219 00:12:57.240 --> 00:12:59.080 she liked it, but she was surprised how much you 220 00:12:59.159 --> 00:13:01.879 liked it. She was like, really, pod like it that much? 221 00:13:01.919 --> 00:13:06.519 It's so didactic. That was her official response to your text. 222 00:13:06.720 --> 00:13:12.919 Ah. Interesting, Well, I can't say that I find it didactic. 223 00:13:13.120 --> 00:13:16.039 Yet maybe it gets more didactic as it goes, and 224 00:13:16.519 --> 00:13:17.200 as I say, it's. 225 00:13:17.080 --> 00:13:17.720 A little woke. 226 00:13:18.399 --> 00:13:18.679 You know. 227 00:13:18.799 --> 00:13:22.960 There's a plot about a mother and taking a girl 228 00:13:23.080 --> 00:13:25.360 to the emergency room to get an abortion, and the 229 00:13:25.440 --> 00:13:28.080 mother showing up and saying, that's my daughter. You're pretending 230 00:13:28.080 --> 00:13:30.120 to be her mother, and she's seventeen and I don't 231 00:13:30.120 --> 00:13:32.960 want her getting an abortion. So there's that, and there's 232 00:13:32.960 --> 00:13:35.559 some other stuff. There's a transpatient, that kind of thing. 233 00:13:35.799 --> 00:13:40.840 But I just as a connoisseur of the medical show 234 00:13:40.879 --> 00:13:43.960 and a fan of the medical show since I loved 235 00:13:44.039 --> 00:13:47.200 Marcus Welby when I was nine years old. Marcus Welby 236 00:13:47.320 --> 00:13:51.759 MD huge hit when I was nine years old, number 237 00:13:51.840 --> 00:13:56.000 one show on television in like nineteen seventy one. I 238 00:13:56.039 --> 00:13:59.679 loved it. Then. I love doctor shows. This somehow is 239 00:13:59.720 --> 00:14:02.960 the instillation of everything that's good about doctor shows and 240 00:14:03.080 --> 00:14:04.960 throws away everything that's bad. 241 00:14:05.399 --> 00:14:10.360 Well, I will watch it, okay. But see, this is 242 00:14:10.720 --> 00:14:13.360 one of the advantages of Rob not being able to 243 00:14:13.360 --> 00:14:16.519 get on the podcast, as we can actually talk about 244 00:14:16.519 --> 00:14:21.519 pop culture, and then listeners should know. Every now and 245 00:14:21.559 --> 00:14:26.600 then Rob's either avatar or his visage reappears on our screen, 246 00:14:27.279 --> 00:14:29.240 and it's sort of like you get a kind of 247 00:14:29.360 --> 00:14:33.840 vibe like somebody drowning who's just coming back up to 248 00:14:33.879 --> 00:14:35.919 the surface to ask for help, and then they sink 249 00:14:35.960 --> 00:14:38.919 back down and disappear. So if we sound weird, it's 250 00:14:38.919 --> 00:14:42.360 partly because of that. Have you watched murder Bot on 251 00:14:42.399 --> 00:14:42.919 Apple TV. 252 00:14:43.440 --> 00:14:45.720 I've watched ten minutes of murder Bot and I really 253 00:14:45.840 --> 00:14:47.600 enjoyed it, and I want to go back to it, 254 00:14:47.679 --> 00:14:50.639 but I then somehow got sucked into the pit. So 255 00:14:50.799 --> 00:14:55.440 I need to go back to murder Bot on your recommendation, 256 00:14:55.600 --> 00:14:58.159 So I recommend it. I think we're allowed to out 257 00:14:58.200 --> 00:15:00.279 that we are friends with Cliff Asnes here. It's not 258 00:15:00.279 --> 00:15:02.879 like it's a secret. I recommended it to Cliff. He 259 00:15:02.919 --> 00:15:06.639 loved it, which is a good sign, and I think 260 00:15:06.679 --> 00:15:09.600 you will like it. Alexander Scarlsguard. I think that you 261 00:15:09.759 --> 00:15:10.440 say his name right. 262 00:15:10.960 --> 00:15:16.480 He actually has a really great dry comedic timing pattern 263 00:15:16.759 --> 00:15:19.200 that you know, it comes out a little bit in 264 00:15:19.240 --> 00:15:26.200 that succession show, very dry, very Swedish. But I think 265 00:15:26.200 --> 00:15:31.399 it's really really good. And when your biggest complaint is 266 00:15:31.399 --> 00:15:34.279 that the episodes are too short, that's a good sign. 267 00:15:35.080 --> 00:15:39.200 Can I just say that the scars Guard family, this 268 00:15:39.240 --> 00:15:42.320 is one hell of a family. So Alexander Scarsguard and 269 00:15:42.399 --> 00:15:45.440 his brother. He has a brother named Bill. Bill played 270 00:15:45.480 --> 00:15:50.200 nos Faratu in the really superb recent movie version of 271 00:15:50.320 --> 00:15:54.320 nos s Faratu and played Pennywise the clown in the 272 00:15:54.360 --> 00:15:57.679 first very scary movie of it and in the second 273 00:15:57.759 --> 00:16:03.120 terrible sequel to the first movie of it. Very interesting actor. 274 00:16:03.159 --> 00:16:07.240 And of course their dad is Stellin Scarsguard, who is 275 00:16:07.919 --> 00:16:12.240 one of the great actors of our time in the 276 00:16:12.279 --> 00:16:17.519 original movie Insomnia in ten thousand other Things, and and 277 00:16:18.039 --> 00:16:21.080 or of course, in which he plays luth and Reel 278 00:16:21.440 --> 00:16:24.720 the what would you call him? He's sort of like 279 00:16:24.799 --> 00:16:28.240 the spy. He's sort of like the James Jesus Angleton 280 00:16:28.399 --> 00:16:32.440 of the result. He is the spy Master of the Resistance. 281 00:16:33.039 --> 00:16:41.080 In the years before the Plans, you know, the before 282 00:16:41.240 --> 00:16:44.200 Luke Skywalker somehow gets his hands on the plans for 283 00:16:44.279 --> 00:16:47.679 the Death Star in in R two D two and 284 00:16:47.840 --> 00:16:50.080 sets off the plot of Star Wars. 285 00:16:50.559 --> 00:16:52.559 Yes, and you got we should listeners should know that 286 00:16:52.600 --> 00:16:55.600 you and mac connetty did an excellent special episode the 287 00:16:55.639 --> 00:16:59.240 Conjurerary Podcast doing a very deep dive into and Or, 288 00:17:00.279 --> 00:17:03.000 which I agreed with you guys. I think and Or 289 00:17:05.279 --> 00:17:08.640 was the best. I would say it's the best television 290 00:17:08.680 --> 00:17:11.119 in a long time, but it was the best television 291 00:17:11.319 --> 00:17:16.279 built out of a bad television premise, you know what 292 00:17:16.319 --> 00:17:19.160 I mean? Yes, I know would say that. I mean 293 00:17:19.200 --> 00:17:20.519 because some of the you know, some of the Star 294 00:17:20.559 --> 00:17:22.799 Wars stuff is fine, some of it's bad, but like, 295 00:17:22.920 --> 00:17:26.119 to get that level of excellence with that background material 296 00:17:26.519 --> 00:17:30.119 was really, really, really impressive. I would argue the only 297 00:17:30.160 --> 00:17:34.759 thing that was more impressive, which started with better base material, 298 00:17:35.359 --> 00:17:40.160 was better Call Saul. The ability to make a sequel 299 00:17:40.359 --> 00:17:45.319 of a much loved, very carefully crafted drama using it 300 00:17:45.440 --> 00:17:49.960 without it being derivative, making it feel original but also 301 00:17:50.000 --> 00:17:53.920 tied to the original stuff was really really impressive, I thought. 302 00:17:53.920 --> 00:17:57.240 But Andre's yeah, I mean, And what people should understand 303 00:17:57.279 --> 00:17:59.519 about and Or is that is that it is a 304 00:18:00.559 --> 00:18:07.759 It is a political thriller about about how it's kind 305 00:18:07.799 --> 00:18:11.440 of three Days of the Condor in right, in Star Wars, 306 00:18:11.559 --> 00:18:17.680 Star Wars, in the Star Wars universe. So it's hard 307 00:18:17.680 --> 00:18:21.839 to it's hard to explain how bizarrely sophisticated it is 308 00:18:21.960 --> 00:18:26.079 compared to everything else in Star Wars, which is glorious, 309 00:18:26.119 --> 00:18:28.160 some of it, I mean, really the first two movies 310 00:18:28.200 --> 00:18:29.799 and the the rest is garbage, But I mean the 311 00:18:30.400 --> 00:18:34.920 is it the sophistication of the plotting of and Or, 312 00:18:35.799 --> 00:18:39.720 which is about how how how a resistance forms against 313 00:18:39.759 --> 00:18:45.559 a crumbling system that is being overtaken from within by 314 00:18:45.759 --> 00:18:50.640 a you know, by a dictatorial tyrant in the form 315 00:18:50.720 --> 00:18:55.559 of the Emperor is uh. I don't know, I've ever 316 00:18:56.000 --> 00:18:59.279 seen anything like it before. It's almost like it's almost 317 00:18:59.319 --> 00:19:03.559 like you would take a you know, you take a 318 00:19:03.599 --> 00:19:09.240 book for children, and then you would write Machiavelli's The 319 00:19:09.319 --> 00:19:13.079 Prints based on it or something like that. It's it's 320 00:19:13.119 --> 00:19:15.640 a degree of difficulty that it's a little hard to 321 00:19:16.440 --> 00:19:18.799 it's a little hard to explain. And then also it 322 00:19:18.839 --> 00:19:22.319 was and Or. The second season of and Or is, 323 00:19:25.240 --> 00:19:32.359 as a matter of structure, incredibly sophisticated. It's essentially three 324 00:19:32.960 --> 00:19:37.359 or four three hour movies or four three hour chunks 325 00:19:37.400 --> 00:19:42.640 of plot, each of each chunk taking a yeat, taking 326 00:19:42.680 --> 00:19:50.000 place a year apart, and so as a result, there's 327 00:19:50.079 --> 00:19:54.400 so little exposition. So it's like science fiction always dies 328 00:19:54.440 --> 00:19:57.519 with exposition in my experience. So it's like, first you 329 00:19:57.599 --> 00:19:59.720 get what it's like in this year, and then it 330 00:20:00.279 --> 00:20:02.960 ahead to the next year, and then you have to 331 00:20:03.000 --> 00:20:06.720 piece together what happened in the intervening eight months that 332 00:20:06.799 --> 00:20:08.839 you didn't see, and then you do it again, and 333 00:20:08.880 --> 00:20:11.039 then you do it again, and so you don't actually 334 00:20:11.039 --> 00:20:14.480 have the well since the last time we were together, 335 00:20:15.240 --> 00:20:17.440 don't get this apartment to hide. 336 00:20:17.319 --> 00:20:20.920 And ironically, you don't get the most Arguably, other than 337 00:20:20.920 --> 00:20:24.000 the Death Star and Lightsabers, the most iconic thing from 338 00:20:24.039 --> 00:20:27.680 the Star Wars franchise is the scroll of text at 339 00:20:27.680 --> 00:20:30.599 the beginning of the movies, which is kind of funny 340 00:20:30.599 --> 00:20:32.680 when you think about it, because that's what you kind 341 00:20:32.680 --> 00:20:35.680 of want between these episodes. Here's what's happened since the 342 00:20:35.759 --> 00:20:36.440 last episode. 343 00:20:36.519 --> 00:20:39.359 Yeah, it has been a dark day for and Or. 344 00:20:40.640 --> 00:20:45.400 He trapped in an apartment and Coruscant with his beloved. 345 00:20:46.119 --> 00:20:49.720 He is going stir crazy. Yeah, they don't do that anyway. 346 00:20:49.759 --> 00:20:53.519 It's a very remarkable thing and it's a very interesting 347 00:20:53.640 --> 00:20:55.839 use of television. And the interesting thing is, well, the 348 00:20:55.839 --> 00:20:58.799 first season did not do very well in the ratings 349 00:20:59.559 --> 00:21:01.759 and was an incredibly expensive The second season was even 350 00:21:01.799 --> 00:21:06.559 more expensive and has proved to be an absolute rating sensation. 351 00:21:07.279 --> 00:21:08.839 Like it's a huge hit. 352 00:21:09.359 --> 00:21:11.000 And you say rating, I mean, like, what what does 353 00:21:11.079 --> 00:21:12.799 ratings mean on streaming on Apple TV? 354 00:21:13.039 --> 00:21:16.400 It's number. It's not Apple TV, it's Disney, so it 355 00:21:16.480 --> 00:21:22.519 is it's a number of hours watched. And so they 356 00:21:22.400 --> 00:21:27.359 they have all these firms now that somehow measure how 357 00:21:27.400 --> 00:21:31.599 many hours in aggregate something is watched, and sometimes the 358 00:21:31.640 --> 00:21:35.200 streaming services release those numbers, and sometimes they don't. So 359 00:21:35.240 --> 00:21:38.119 we know, for example that you know, there are shows 360 00:21:39.880 --> 00:21:43.119 that do shockingly well that you've never heard of, like 361 00:21:43.200 --> 00:21:45.759 Ginny and Georgia, and then there are shows that get 362 00:21:45.920 --> 00:21:49.839 enormous amounts of attention that I'm trying to think of 363 00:21:49.839 --> 00:21:52.920 what that like that don't rate at all. 364 00:21:53.440 --> 00:21:56.240 It's sort of like Girls in the Older. 365 00:21:55.880 --> 00:22:00.519 Right example, or mad Men, which nobody watched. Yeah, but 366 00:22:03.200 --> 00:22:06.160 so yeah, go ahead, no, that's okay. 367 00:22:06.240 --> 00:22:10.599 So since we're just it's like we're running with the 368 00:22:10.640 --> 00:22:14.039 ball here with pop culture because probs, now, have you 369 00:22:14.119 --> 00:22:15.480 seen twenty eight years later. 370 00:22:16.680 --> 00:22:19.200 You know what I haven't yet. I did see F one, 371 00:22:19.720 --> 00:22:21.880 so I can talk about F one, So I like 372 00:22:22.039 --> 00:22:25.279 twenty eight days and twenty eight weeks later though, Like, 373 00:22:25.599 --> 00:22:27.440 as you know, I'm not a big fan of the 374 00:22:27.519 --> 00:22:30.240 zombie thing, but I like Danny Boyle the director. So 375 00:22:30.359 --> 00:22:31.240 were you a fan? 376 00:22:32.079 --> 00:22:34.160 Yeah? So I love the first one. I think the 377 00:22:34.240 --> 00:22:38.200 first one was actually pretty impressive, you know, iconic filmmaking. 378 00:22:38.519 --> 00:22:42.200 The second one it's like, remember that piece I did 379 00:22:42.240 --> 00:22:46.599 for you about Battlestarta sar Galactica. I feel like twenty 380 00:22:46.640 --> 00:22:50.920 eight weeks later suffered from the similar thing where they 381 00:22:50.920 --> 00:22:54.400 had to make it about the Iraq War and London 382 00:22:54.400 --> 00:22:57.559 becomes the green Zone, and it's it's a classic example 383 00:22:57.599 --> 00:23:01.599 of not thinking through your metaphors, because according to this 384 00:23:01.720 --> 00:23:07.559 then the Iraqis are the civilization destroying zombies, which is 385 00:23:07.599 --> 00:23:10.200 not like the argument that he kind of wanted to make, 386 00:23:10.279 --> 00:23:12.559 and so I thought it kind of failed on those purposes. 387 00:23:13.319 --> 00:23:18.519 Twenty eight years later is some interesting filmmaking. I should 388 00:23:18.519 --> 00:23:20.960 be very clear. My wife hated it with a blinding passion. 389 00:23:22.799 --> 00:23:26.440 My daughter liked it, and I really liked it. But 390 00:23:26.640 --> 00:23:31.559 it is a really British movie, and I'm kind of 391 00:23:31.599 --> 00:23:34.519 eager to read some British reviews of it because it 392 00:23:34.599 --> 00:23:38.920 plays on a lot of it's less a zombie movie 393 00:23:38.920 --> 00:23:42.440 than an English movie. It's really kind of interesting. And 394 00:23:43.279 --> 00:23:47.920 I could also do without the excessive male frontal nudity. 395 00:23:47.960 --> 00:23:50.680 I mean, all the frontal nudity is bothersome to me 396 00:23:50.720 --> 00:23:54.759 in this because it's it's grubby, dirty zombie frontal nudity, 397 00:23:54.799 --> 00:23:59.119 which is not you know, it's not my metier. But 398 00:23:59.240 --> 00:24:00.720 one of the things that this is not really a 399 00:24:00.799 --> 00:24:03.960 huge spoiler since twenty eight years later the way, because 400 00:24:04.079 --> 00:24:05.960 in the first two movies, the whole premise was if 401 00:24:05.960 --> 00:24:08.240