Speaker 1: You're listening to the Mind Over Murder podcast.
Speaker 2: My name is Bill Thomas.
Speaker 3: I'm a writer, consulting, producer, and now podcaster. I am
now trying to use my experience as the brother of
a murder victim to help other victims of violent crime.
I'm working on a book on the unsolved Colonial Parkway murders,
and I'm the co administrator of the Colonial Parkway Murders
Facebook group together with Kristin Dilly.
Speaker 4: My name is Kristin Dilly.
Speaker 5: I'm a writer, a researcher, a teacher, and a victim's advocate,
as well as the social media manager and co administrator
for the Colonial Parkway Murders Facebook page with my partner
in crime, Bill Thomas.
Speaker 6: Welcome to a special edition of Mind Over Murder. I'm
Kristin Dilly.
Speaker 2: And I'm Bill Thomas.
Speaker 6: You're covering the breaking news in the Colonial Parkway Murders case.
In a press conference on Friday November fourteenth, Virginia State
Police confirmed that they have linked the nineteen eighty eight
murder of Laurie Ann Powell in Gloucester, Virginia to serial
killer Alan Wade Wilmer Senior via DNA. This comes two
years after Wilmer was linked to the murders of Robin
Edwards and David Nobling on Ragged Island in nineteen eighty
seven and Teresa Lynn Spa Howell in Hampton in nineteen
eighty nine. This now connects Lori Ann Powell's murder, which
we have can persistently referred to as Parkway adjacent to
the Colonial Parkway murders.
Speaker 4: This is huge news for us.
Speaker 6: Bill, how did you feel when you got that phone call.
Speaker 3: It's exciting and we're thrilled to have good news for
the Powell family, Lorianne's family, and the Compton family. Her
mom remarried at a later point. I don't know that
I've ever spoken to Lorianne's sister, but I have spoken
to her parents, who are very nice people. It's just
wonderful to see an outcome like this. I hope people
can understand that for us to call this good news
when you've been waiting for answers for thirty seven years,
getting those answers is probably quite satisfying something you've been
seeking for decades. None of this is going to bring
Lorianne back, or any of our loved ones who've been
taken in the Colonial Parkway murders, but we're all seeking answers.
It makes me happy, really for the Powell family and
the Compton family that they finally have the answers they've
been seeking.
Speaker 2: At least for.
Speaker 3: Those of us that struggle at night to get to
sleep wondering what happened to our loved ones, at least
they know. I was so struck by how beautiful a
young woman she was. And now Kristen's put together a
new photo array of our ten victims, four of whom
have been confirmed as part of the Colonial Parkway murders now,
and I think there'll be more to come. It's very
hard not to look at those bright young people and
not have your heartbreak a little bit. But I'm trying
to balance that feeling with the positive feeling about the
fact that the Virginia State Police is working this case
and solving these murders. I have to give them a
lot of credit for the work they're doing.
Speaker 4: That's a great place to start.
Speaker 6: We want to give mad props to the Virginia State
Police for the incredible work that they are.
Speaker 4: Doing on this.
Speaker 6: They really have not given up. Yes, it's been a
long two years since Wilmer was first identified as the
killer of Robin, David and Terry, but they have worked
it doggedly. We would love to see the FBI put
that kind of dogged persistence into the cases that are
under their purview. At the press conference today, which we'll
get into in a little bit, the VSP said that
they are still actively working in the case, and they
said several times they are still actively seeking tips and
leads and information from the public with regard to Alan
Wade Wilmer. They are clearly looking into him for more cases.
I'm guessing, just a guess, but I think it's probably
pretty educated one that the next one that's going to
be linked to him is Brian Pettenger. They look like
they are actively working in these cases. So props all
the way around to Virginia State Police, Hampton PD, Suffolk PD.
Speaker 4: They indicated they are working with them too.
Speaker 6: I love White like everybody who has jumped in and said, hey,
we want to keep working these cases. Props to you
guys in law enforcement. Thank you, thank you. You saw
today how happy the members of Lorian's family are to
have that. Everybody wants to use that term closure, but
we know closure doesn't work here. They are happy to
have those answers, and so mad props to VSP. You
guys are out there doing great work. Thank you keep going.
Speaker 3: Interestingly, they avoided the use of the word closure as
far as I could hear. Yes, we'll talk about that
in a second. They used resolution a couple of times,
and that's actually a good choice of language. There's no
justice in any of this because in a perfect world,
Alan Woodwilmer would be behind bars now and he's not.
I think resolution is probably a good choice. One of
the many things we learned today was that DNA Labs
International was the responsible lab. This is an independent lab
down in Florida. I know those folks. They do some
very good work. They never said two years ago who
did the work on the Robin Edwards, David Nobling and
Terry Howell Murders. I guessed at the time that it
was DNA Labs International. They do work for lots of
different law enforcement agencies around the country. I wasn't sure
back then two years ago who did that work. But
this time around, very early on in the press conference,
they announced that DNA Labs International of Florida did the work.
And again, like you're saying, Kristen, props to them. They're
doing some great work. They were able to take what
I'm sure was a very challenging DNA sample from Lorient
Powell's rape kit. Again something we learned. We didn't know
that she'd been sexually assaulted. They confirmed I didn't as well.
They were able to get a working DNA profile and
once again linked to Alan Wade Wilmer Senior.
Speaker 6: Because I know that we are going to have people
who are listening to the podcast for the first time
because of their interest in Lori Anne's case, Let's do
a brief review and recap of the history behind Alan
Wade Wilmer Senior's involvement in the case, and then we'll
continue to talk a little bit about Lari Anne and
the questions that Bill and I now have as a
result of this new information, things that we've been thinking
over the last couple of days' ideas we've been spitballing
because so many people have asked on our social media paages.
We will do a discussion about other cases that we
think Wilmer might be involved in, and we hope if
any of the law enforcement agencies are currently listening to
this we do know the FBI tunes in from time
to time. Hello to the analysts out there. We are
hoping that this might be something exper discussion.
Speaker 3: One thing for new listeners, you don't have to listen
to every episode of Mind Over Murder if you're just
interested in the Colonial Parkway murders. But if you go
back and take a look, and we have over five
hundred episodes, now some of are bonus episodes, which are
repeat episodes. There's at least three hundred brand new episodes.
But if you go and look at the list, you
can scroll down and we clearly market when we're talking
about the Colonial Parkway murders. So if you want to
go back and listen to earlier episodes, which you're welcome to,
just look for the episodes where we talk about Colonial
Parkway murders. And there's also from time to time we'll
do us and ask us anything in the Colonial Parkway murders,
and that's typically a format where Kristin will ask questions
and tea up and we'll do our best and for
the two of us to answer them. You don't have
to listen to every episode we've ever recorded, as much
as we'd appreciate that. Before we jump into more specifics,
I do have to include a rant. Here, go right ahead.
You just heard us have a lot of great things
to say about the work that the Virginia State Police
are doing. But I have to bring this up. In
my previous life, I was a senior level marketing and
communications and public relations guy, so I ran a lot
of press conferences. I was sometimes the on camera spokesperson
for the organizations that I worked for, like ASKAP, so
I know how press conferences are run. And these Virginia
State Police press conferences are terrible, and it's so frustrating.
I don't know if it's deliberate. At this point, they're
doing the public a disservice. It's so basic to have
a person at the front of the room answering questions.
If you cannot hear the questions that are being asked,
and this is not the first time they've done this,
if we cannot hear the questions, then it is very
difficult to discern from the answers what the question was.
And some of these questions is these are complicated cases.
There's a lot of nuance, a lot of detail. But
if we can't hear what the reporters are asking. Were lost.
I was so frustrat created. At one point, while the
press conference was unfolding, I actually fired up. I have
a very elaborate stereo system in this room. He used
to work in the music business, and one of my
two max is connected to the stereo. Even with the
stereo turned all the way up through these big, fancy speakers,
I could sometimes barely hear what the questions were. Typically,
Captain Ribel was doing most of the answering. You could
clearly hear what his answers were, but you weren't one
hundred percent sure what question he was being asked. And
then sometimes he'd say, oh, that's true, and you're like,
what is true? They have to do better. Look if
I have to drive down to Virginia and run this
press contract for them. Typically what we would do is
we would have two microphones in the room on stands,
and the reporters would get up ask the question so
you could hear them. They were nice and loud. Alternatively,
someone walks around with a wireless mic, the reporter sticks
his or her hand up in the air and they
go over and they the person often would say, I'm
Kristin Dilly from someone to asked the question and then
finally failing all of that. And again, remember I was
the guy at the front of the room answering the questions.
Speaker 2: A lot of the time. You repeat the question if
you can't.
Speaker 3: If someone says what color socks was the victim wearing,
the person at the front of the room says, the
question was what color socks was the victim wearing? And
the answer is blue. But they didn't do any of
those things, and it just makes for a very frustrating experience.
I was following the press conference live and we will
continue to put up links to the press conference because
it is worth watching. But damn, they have to do
a better job. Virginias Police has done this at least twice,
and the FBI did it last year when they announced
the solve of the Julie Williams Lolly Winan's case. If
you can't hear the questions, you're only hearing half of
the conversation.
Speaker 4: That is very true.
Speaker 6: So to the VSP if you don't want Bill Thomas
to come down there and do it himself.
Speaker 2: I'll do it for free.
Speaker 4: I'm serious.
Speaker 2: This isn't that hard.
Speaker 3: It's not hard to put together a simple setup to
have a good, clear, understandable press conference.
Speaker 4: Hey, we do it at our live events all the time.
Speaker 3: Yeah, as a matter of fact. When we do as
a matter of fact, our podcast live event, we have
a microphone and we ask people to step up to
the microphone and what was the weather like on the
day of the murder. You can hear the question and
we provide the answer as best we can.
Speaker 4: No, I definitely agree with you.
Speaker 6: I was not able to watch it live, unfortunately, because
I was in the middle of teaching a class of
high school kiddos how to read, write, and speak appropriately the.
Speaker 2: How to do a press conference too.
Speaker 6: I should teach them how to do a press conference exactly.
We are actually working on oral presentations. And I will
tell you I do have a lot of hope from
my current group of kids because they have been quite good. Yes,
some of them occasionally will mumble or whatever, but I
have had a group of kids who have written out
thorough note cards and really, yeah, I've been really proud
of this group of kids so far. And maybe a
handful of them will listen to this because they're a
little jazzed about the idea that their teacher has a
true crime podcast. Maybe some of them will hear that
I am proud of them in the work that they're doing.
Speaker 2: I home, I am.
Speaker 6: Let it be said, let it be known. Let's do
a recap of what we know so far. So for
anybody who is not familiar with the case but is
coming in out of an interest into the Lori Ann
Powell murder, then we'll go ahead and catch you up
on where we are with Wilmer.
Speaker 4: This first started two years ago.
Speaker 6: On January eighth, twenty twenty four, the VSP and the
FBI held a joint press conference in which they announced
that Alan Wade Wilmer, Senior, sixty three, of Lancaster County, Virginia,
had been connected via DNA to the murders of Robin Edwards,
David Nobling, and Teresa Howell. This marked the first significant
break in this case in its then thirty seven year history.
Died in his home in twenty seventeen, without ever having
been convicted of a felony in the state of Virginia.
Speaker 3: For everyone's benefit, because this question came up today, he
died of natural causes at home. He had heart disease
and other issues. He was found dead in his bed.
Speaker 4: Good.
Speaker 6: I'm glad that you clarified that, because we have had
people ask us a number of times like what did
he die of? Because Wilmer died without ever having been
convicted of a felony in the state of Virginia, his
DNA was not placed in the CODIS system. That is
because the rules governing DNA entry into COTIS states that
only the DNA of people convicted of felonies can be
entered into the database. That is why his DNA is
not in the system at this time. His DNA can
be used for one to one case comparisons, which is
how he was linked to Robin, David Terry and now Laurie,
but he is not in the larger database, and we
want to address that particular loophole a little bit later
in this podcast and in subsequent podcasts. The break in
the case in January twenty twenty four was the first
time a single homicide victim, Teresa Howell, was connected to
the Colonial Parkway murders series. Today's presser about Larian Powell
marks the second individual to be linked into this series
of double homicides, known collectively as the Colonial Parkway murders.
Speaker 3: Another question that came up today repeatedly was why these
murders called the Colonial Parkway murders when none of the
murders we're talking about today happened on the Colonial Parkway.
People are correct, The name was created by local media
in Virginia. Kathy Thomas and Rebecca Dowski and Keith Colin
Cassandra Haley who went missing. Those cases are local to
the Colonial Parkway, and with the Thomas Dowski murders being
the first fir in the series, local media began referring
to these murders as they unfolded from nineteen eighty six
to nineteen eighty nine as the Colonial Parkway Murders. People
were throwing questions at us today, like why are these
called the Colonial Parkway murders. None of this has anything
to do with the Colonial Parkway. All we can say
is we didn't make up the name. We just stuck
with it because that's the name that people know these
cases by.
Speaker 6: Although I think at some point now we are going
to have to broaden our definition of what this case
might alternatively be called, assuming the media doesn't come up
with something else for it.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I'll be damned if they're called the Wilmer murders, though,
because let's stay focused on victims for now, we're still
calling them the Colonial Parkway murders because people around the
world know this case by that name.
Speaker 6: So continuing our recap, Alan Wade Wilmer Senior has now
been linked via DNA to four homicides, Robin Edwards and
David Nobling, Teresa Howell, and Laurien Powell. He has been
circubstantially linked to the disappearances of Keith Call and Cassandra Haley,
and was at one time considered the number one suspect
in their disappearances and probable murders. He was given two
polygraphs in reference to that case, but the FBI failed
to follow up on him as a suspect after those polygraphs.
Speaker 4: As a result of that.
Speaker 6: Teresa Ann Howell was murdered in July of nineteen eighty nine,
and I fully assert that is because the FBI did
not follow up appropriately. I have to agree, Okay, when
we first heard that Lori Ann's murder had been forensically
linked to Wilmer, Bill and I went into overdrive and
started spitballing ideas off of each other because this is
what we do. And for anybody who doesn't know how
long we've been working together, we've been working together ten years.
Speaker 4: This is what we do all the time.
Speaker 6: At some point or another, just about every we will
call or text or whatever to each other and say, hey,
have you thought about this?
Speaker 2: Yes, we're pathetic, we admit it.
Speaker 6: I think we're dedicated. I think we're detail oriented. I
think that we're resilient.
Speaker 2: And our moms are proud of us.
Speaker 6: And our moms are proud of us, yes, exactly, and
our partners are proud of us too. Based on that
confirmation that Wilmer is the killer of luri Ann Powell,
that does mean we have to broaden our understanding of
what we know about the case. And it means that
we have new questions and also new theories and new
information to consider. Again, because I think about this a lot,
even when I'm at work. I took five minutes during
my lunch hour the other day in between classes, and
I dashed off some bullet points to Bill, just things
that I was thinking about Laurie's case. And we're going
to go ahead and share those with you now. And
Bill is going to chime in and give his thoughts
as well. Now that we know that Wilmer is connected
to Lauri and Powell, we do have confirmation that Wilmer
was hunting in Gloucester. We know that he was doctor
at Marine Is over there. That has been stated as such,
it was stated today during the press conferences. We also
know that he frequented a store which we are not
going to name so that we can allow them their
privacy that makes them sells nautical line. So we know
that Wilmer was in Gloucester at various times. This confirms it.
Speaker 3: Now this marine supply house, and we've spoken to the
owners of the marine supply house. They told us a
couple of things which shocked us. This is last year now.
One is that both Alan Wade Wilmer, Senior and his
older brother, William Keith Wilmer were customers of this marine
supply house. Interestingly, they told us that no one from
the FBI or the Virginia State Police has ever visited them,
even though Kathy and Becky were murdered using nautical law.
I have to express some disappointment that Kristin Dilly and
Bill Thomas are the only people that have ever reached
out to this marine supply house, particularly since rope was
used in the first two murders. The current president of
the company, it's a family owned business. He went back
and checked with his father and uncle who worked there
for decades, and he reconfirmed no one from the eighties
on forward when these murders started to that day that
I spoke to him last year, has ever spoken to
them about this. And this is yet another just small
but disappointing facet to the investigation. We're not investigators, as
Kristin likes to say, and we're not. I don't know
why two podcasters, one of them the brother of the
murder victims, take it upon themselves to check these things
out when our investigative partners aren't doing it. We now
need to adjust our thinking in terms of Wilmer that
his hunting grounds, if you want to call them, that
are broader than we might have thought at one time.
He's on the Gloucester side, now the York River, because
that's where we believe Lorian Powell might have encountered him.
Speaker 6: We know that Lorian pell was last seen with her
boyfriend Chris Cutler.
Speaker 4: They had a fight. She asked to get out of.
Speaker 6: His truck and he left her on the side of
the road at her request and she started walking. He
then turned around forty minutes later and came back for her,
but did not find her. So that means in that
forty minutes, Wilmer came across Lorianne, took her into his truck.
Speaker 4: Maybe he offered to give her a ride.
Speaker 6: Maybe he did not offer and forced her in at
if for gunpoint.
Speaker 4: But in that forty minute.
Speaker 6: Window is when Alan Wayne Wilmer, Senior came upon her.
I'm guessing she was probably a victim of opportunity. I
don't necessarily believe that he was following her, although that
is something that someone mentioned on our Facebook page. My
theory Wilmer is that he was always hunting and looking
for opportunities and he just took advantage when he saw
someone that he could grab without repercussions. And when I
say without repercussions, I mean without danger to him. Obviously
it had far reaching repercussions.
Speaker 3: From what we've been told. Lori Anne was walking along
Route six fourteen in the direction of Route seventeen, which
is the road that goes across the Coleman Bridge from
the Gloucester side to the New York County side. She
was headed likely in the direction of a Little Sue,
which is like a seven to eleven. Is that a
fair convenient conveniences? And this is also a place that
was known as a hangout for Ron Little, whose name
comes up frequently in connection with the Colonial Parkray murders
and other people that we associate with Liberty Security. We
can't lose sight of the fact that Lorian Powell had
worked at Liberty Security. You're going to be hearing more
and more about Liberty Security yet, we think in the
coming months, because there just seems to be this recurring
nexus around this small security company based in Gloucester, just
a couple of miles away from where Lori and Powell
was last seen. You're listening to Mindover Murder. We'll be
right back after this word from our sponsors. We're back
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Speaker 6: We know that Laurie and Powell was found dumped in
the water that would be in the James River off
of what's called Craney Island. And Craney Island is actually
owned by the US Navy and it has an area
called the Dredged Material Area.
Speaker 4: It is adjacent to the six sixty.
Speaker 6: Four monitor mayor Maca Memorial Bridge Tunnel Beltway, and if
you take a look at the map that we will
put up a little bit later on our social media pages,
it is in a fairly busy area, but it is
outside of Portsmith, which is very different from where Brian
Puttinger was found and then Robin Edwards and David Knoblane.
So we will put a little image of that a
little bit later to show you where Crany Island is.
For anybody who doesn't know she was dumped in the water,
we have long questioned how Wilmer was dumping his victims
in water. Was he taking them on the boat after
grabbing her and killing her? Was he driving around with
her body in the pickup truck. We don't really know,
but I am guessing the boat would probably be easier,
especially if it has a hold where you would be
keeping your catch from the day's fishing or oystering. So
we still don't know how Wilmer is approaching his victims
and transporting his victims. That I am assuming, because she
was dumped in the water, I have to assume that
at some point or another she was on that boat.
And the name of the boat by the way for
anybody who may have missed it at the press conference
is Denny Wade and it was a handcrafted wooden huled boat.
And another thing that we were thinking about the other day,
because this is what we do, is the cause of
death in all of these different cases. We know that
David Noblin and Robin Edwards were shot. We know that
Terry Howell was strangled, and now we have learned that
Larry and Powell was stabbed multiple times in the back
and neck. He is varying the weapons that he's using.
We don't know if that is a forensic countermeasure. We
don't know if he's experimenting with weapons to see what
works better for him or what he likes better. If
it turns out that he's connected to Kathy Thomas and
Rebecca Dowski, we know that they were strangled before their
throats were cut. If it turns out that he's connected
to Brian Pettenger was a victim of blunt Forth's trauma.
There was a gash across the back of his head
and his hands were bound. It is very interesting to
look at the different types of causes of death here.
And of course, the one thing that we really don't
have a good handle on is cause of death for
Keith Collin Cassandra Haley, and that's because their bodies have
not been found yet.
Speaker 3: From our many conversations with our friends who were FBI
trained profilers, one of the things they've said to us
is they said the kind of traditional viewpoint of serial
killers like Wilmer was that they like to kill in
a certain way and in a certain pattern. And what
the profilers are telling us these days, in the last
couple of years, is that they have scrapped a lot
of those viewpoints because they're saying they mix it up,
they try different things. They may be experimenting. To use
Kristen's word, can't lock into this couple was shot, this
person was strangled. All of these people, for example, four
people so far have already been linked to Wilmer, and
even just this group of four people and now including
Lorian Powell, we've got multiple ways of injuring and killing people,
all being used by the same offender. It's possible there
are accomplices involved, but Wilmer's DNA is the through link here,
and that's how we're proving that Alan Wade Wilmer, Senior
is the killer, as Kristen says, he's using all these
different methods.
Speaker 6: One thing that we learned today at the press conference,
and we're pretty sure this is courtesy of a question
by Andy Fox.
Speaker 4: But I couldn't hear very well as there was that
the same microphone.
Speaker 2: No one could.
Speaker 4: But I do feel like this was probably an Andy
Fox question.
Speaker 6: He asked what was the source of the DNA for
Laurie and Powell, and it was revealed that it was
from a rape kit from Lurie Ann Powell. So now
with the four people who Wilmer is confirmed via DNA
to have murdered, we have three women who were sexually assaulted,
Robin Edwards, Larry and Powell, and Terry Howell. This does,
of course bring up the interesting question if it turns
out that Wilmer is responsible for Kathy Thomas and Rebecca Dowski,
how in the world will they prove it, Considering that
the FBI destroyed their rape kits as medical waste.
Speaker 2: Don't get me started.
Speaker 6: We've also considered the fact that this definitively proves that
Alan Wade Wilmer Senior was hunting both couples and individuals.
Speaker 4: Larie Anne was on her own. Terry Howell was on
her own.
Speaker 6: If he's responsible for Brian Puttinger, and I really do
think he is, Brian was on his own.
Speaker 4: We again have to.
Speaker 6: Ask ourselves questions about Wilmer's predilections. Was he just hunting
who was available? Was he opportunistic? Was he always looking
for couples, but when he couldn't get them, he grabbed
individuals or vice versa. Was he hunting couples because that's
more of a challenge. Was he hunting couples with other
people and individuals on his own? It brings up a
lot of questions about additional possible accomplices, so many things
that just that one question brings up for us. And
I'm very interested to talk to our profiler friends and
see what they make of this.
Speaker 3: We were talking about this earlier. One of the things
I said to Kristen was a lot of things I
thought about the Colonial Parkway murders have been upended by
this news about Lori Anne Powell, this information that you
just went through, Kristen. We really have to rethink this.
And this is why I believe very strongly that the
Virginia State Police, FBI, and other agencies need to be
looking at unsolved murders throughout Virginia, Yes, and Maryland and
North Carolina. I have heard some stories about Wilmer making
his way into Maryland. We'll talk about that later, perhaps
being engaged in rape murder cases in Maryland. We also
have some cases that we're aware of in North Carolina
that we think may involve Alan Wade Wilmer, Senior. It's
imperative these agencies start core co ordinating because I think
wilmert could be good for who knows, dozens of murders.
Speaker 6: Just based on and this is Bill Thomas and Kristin
Dilly looking into cold cases around the area. Just based
on that, we've got sixteen potential victims. He was as
people who said online he was truly a monster. We
just don't know. So I highly agree with you Bill.
It is imperative that everybody North Carolina, Maryland, everybody across Virginia,
especially Tidwater that has cold cases.
Speaker 4: We know that it's not just couples.
Speaker 6: Now it's time to start pulling out those cold case files,
get your cold case unit up and active, and start
trying to figure out could Wilmer be good for any
of these?
Speaker 2: Talk to us about the confirmed murders so far.
Speaker 4: The timeline is interesting.
Speaker 6: One of the things that I need to do when
I am doing work on the case is I need
to have a timeline laid out for me, and so
I make lists on legal pads I don't have. I
don't have one of the weird murder walls yet with
the red string and all of that. If I had
room in my house, I might, but I don't have
an office. I really want your office with all of
your bookshelves and everything like that, because Bill's got an
absolutely gorgeous home office. You guys, he's got a full library. Yeah,
you're looking around like you don't know what kind of
space you have.
Speaker 4: Your space is gorgeous.
Speaker 2: No, we're very lucky, thank you.
Speaker 6: So I don't have a murder wall yet, but I
do have a lot of legal paths which have a
lot of the same things on it. And the thing
that is interesting so far to me, we're starting to
get this confirmation based on dates that Wilmer seemed to
be in the midst of a murder spree. Here, let's
break this down a little bit for just confirmed Wilmer murders.
Robin Edwards and David Nabeln were murdered September nineteen eighty
seven on Ragged Island, so I love White County. Six
months later, March ninth, nineteen eighty eight, Lariyan Powell goes
missing from Gloucester, and that is only three weeks before
the disappearance of Keith Colin Cassandra Haley on April tenth.
Laurie's body was found two weeks later, in April of
nineteen eighty eight, one week before Keith and Cassandra disappeared.
Keith and Sandra disappear. And remember Wilmer is the number
one suspect in that case right from the beginning, from
the beginning, from.
Speaker 3: Four days after Keith and Sandy died, the FBI was
looking hard at him.
Speaker 6: And then fifteen months later, in July of nineteen eighty nine,
Terry Howell is murdered in Hampton, Virginia.
Speaker 4: Look at that timeline, you guys.
Speaker 6: That is September eighty seven to July of eighty nine,
and that is four dead bodies, six if you count
Keith and Sandra.
Speaker 2: And all the women were raped.
Speaker 6: If you add Brian Pettinger in there as well, and
he does bookend, he disappeared after Robin and David and
before Laurie Anne. If you add Brian Pettinger in there,
then boy, you're pulling that timeline even more. I would
be very, very curious to know from anybody who remembers
Wilmer what was his state of mind and his activity
in eighty seven, eighty eight and eighty nine. Did he
seem extra excited? Is something that would have riled him
up and thrilled him? Was he loving this thrill? We
don't know anything about Wilmer in terms of personality, but
I would be very interested to know what was his
affect during this time. In our live event at the
Yorktown Library in May of twenty twenty four, we offered
our analysis on cases that we thought might be connected
to Wilmer. We mentioned, of course, the Parkway adjacent cases
of Brian Pattinger and Lourienn Powell.
Speaker 4: Now, of course, Laurienne has.
Speaker 6: Been definitively tied to Wilmer. We also mentioned a series
of murders in Lancaster County, the two remaining double homicides
and the Colonial Parkway murders, a series of single homicides
of women in Chesapeake, and two homicides of women.
Speaker 4: In North Carolina.
Speaker 6: We're going to run down those cases right now and
evaluate them in light of what we have learned about
Wilmer's involvement in the murder of Lurienn Powell.
Speaker 3: You mentioned a figure of sixteen people that we've put
together just from our list. I think if law enforcement
from the Tri state area is working together, there may
be a number of additional people that should be at
least checked out, and if there's DNA evidence in those cases,
they should be cross referenced against Wilmer's DNA.
Speaker 6: So in our May thirteenth, twenty twenty four live event,
we posited that Wilmer might be involved in the cases
of Dale and Charlotte Rogers in Lancaster, Virginia, Mary Harding
in Lancaster, Virginia, Kathy Thomas and Rebecca Dowski, Brian Pattinger,
Blinda Ann Ashbourne, Donna cannedy Anna, Marie Phelpson, Daniel Lauer,
Amber Lungren, and Peggy Lammers. Today it was confirmed that
he's involved in Lurienn Powell's murder. Let's very quickly just
go back over these cases. For anybody who's not familiar,
then we would love to know at the conclusion of
this episode, what are y'all's thoughts Do you believe that
Wilmer may be involved in these We've heard from a
number of people who think that he's probably.
Speaker 4: Involved in the Mary Harding case.
Speaker 6: There are plenty of people who believe that he also
was responsible for Kathy and Rebecca, as well as Anna
Maria and Daniel Lauer. So once we've gone over and
presented you the evidence, you all be the jury and
please let us know your thoughts. We would love to know,
especially for those of you in Lancaster County who may
have known or worked with any of these victims. Please
do you reach out to the Virginia State Police or
the FBI and offer any information that you can.
Speaker 4: That is very important.
Speaker 6: The other cases that we think Wilmer might be involved
in are these Daleen, Charlotte Rogers, and Mary Harding Lancaster, Virginia.
So Daleen Charlotte Rodgers were murdered in their home in
February of nineteen seventy six. The cause of death was
a shotgun blast to the back of the head. There
were no signs of forced entry. The victims were next
door neighbors of Gary Lankford, who would feature in another
perplexing case in Henraiko County, which is the murder of
Olivia Thorndey. And we have had people online say that
they thought maybe Wilmer was responsible for Olivia too. We
haven't had any time to discuss or evaluate that one
way or the other.
Speaker 3: In some of these cases in Lancaster County, people have
also talked to us, and these are often knowledgeable people
in law enforcement as well, who have talked about the
fact that William Keith Wilmer, Alan Wade, Wilmer's older brother,
is also suspected in some of these cases, and he
died in April twenty twenty five. In some of these cases,
particularly those in Lancaster County, there's a potential involvement from
Allan to older brother Keith.
Speaker 6: Next many people have wondered whether Alan could be involved
in this murder along with his brother Keith. Mary Harding
twenty four went missing on August twenty third, nineteen eighty five.
She was taken from her home. Her children were left
alone in the house. Dinner was on the table, comet,
the bathroom cleaner was in the sink, the cat's litter
tary was spilled in the yard. Mary's flip flops were
found outside, one in the driveway, the other in the
back of the house. Mary was found four days later
on August twenty seventh in the Rappahannock River. She was
found with a rope around her neck tied to a
chain in a cinderblock.
Speaker 3: One of the odd details that jumps out here is
that Mary Harding went by Mary Keyser Harding or Mayne,
worked with Keith Wilmer's wife at the Lancaster Bank, and
these two young married women were very good friends. It
seems like a very odd coincidence that Keith and Alan
knew Mary Keyser Harding very well. Heath Wilmer, by the way,
was banned from the bank's premises, first the inside of
the bank and then all even the parking lot of
the bank because he would continually sexually harass women coming
and going while he sat outside in his vehicle waiting
to pick his wife up after work. So this very odd, dysfunctional,
misogynistic behavior towards women made him stand out as a creeper.
Speaker 6: Next, do we move on to incident ie in the
Colonial Parkway murders, That is, the murder of twenty seven
year old Kathy Thomas and twenty year old Rebecca Dowski.
They were murdered in October of nineteen eighty six. They
were found in Kathy's Honda Civic at the Cheeta Metics
overlook on the Colonial Parkway.
Speaker 4: This was not the.
Speaker 6: Primary crime scene, The primary was elsewhere. They were found
in the way way back of Kathy's Honda Civic. They
had been strangled and their throats were cut as well.
Speaker 3: Another odd detail in Kathy and Becky's murder is that
whoever killed them doused the inside and outside of Kathy's
Honda and the bodies with diesel fuel. In the early going,
they sometimes said kerosene, but later on they seem to
settle on calling it diesel fuel. And they made what
I think is a clumsy attempt to set the car
on fire. And this is one of those things that
always stuck out for me, which is how does somebody
have access to diesel fuel which many boats run on,
but doesn't really fully understand the ignition properties of diesel fuel.
They made an attempt to set the diesel fuel a
light using matches which won't typically work. You might be
able to get diesel fuel going with a very hot
like newspaper torch or something like that. It won't light
with a match like gasoline will go up like that.
Diesel fuel has a much higher ignition point and won't light.
Speaker 2: With a match.
Speaker 3: So it's just one of those very odd details about
Kathy and Becky's crime scene.
Speaker 6: The next is Brian Craig Pattinger twenty five. He went
missing from Hampton on December fourth, nineteen eighty seven, that is,
three months after Robin and David were murdered on Ragged Island.
He was found in Chuktuck Creek in February of nineteen
eighty eight. Next is a case that we have heard
of but we don't have a lot of information about,
and that is Belinda Anne Ashburn thirty three. We have
very little information on her murder. I don't have a
current investigative agency for her, but her homicide was one
that the group f Fact Family and Friends Against Crime Today,
which was founded by the Call family, was looking into
when it was first founded after the initial start of
the Colonial Parkway murders. Blinda Ann Ashburn was found just
over the North Carolina state line in Kurtuck County. She
was stabbed to death and dumped in the water. And
given what we have just learned about Lariy and Powell,
I think it's important that we take a look at
Belinda Anne Ashburn. Next, we have Colonial Parkway murders incident
for Anna Maria Phelps and Daniel Lower. Daniel and Anna
Maria were driving from Amelia County to Virginia Beach to
move in with Anne Marie's boyfriend, Daniel's brother. In late
August of nineteen eighty nine, Daniels car was found at
the New Kent County Rest area, heading westbound, the.
Speaker 4: Opposite of where they should have been going.
Speaker 6: Their bodies were not found until six weeks later on
the property of a private hunt club in u Kent County.
Many people have asked, we do not know if Wilmer
was a member of that hunt club. It was mentioned
at the press conference today he was a member of
a hunt club, but we do not know if it
was that one. If anybody can find that information, please
let us know.
Speaker 3: Wilmer was an avid hunter fisherman. Of course, he made
his living on the water. He was also a crack
shot and he won prizes for his archery prowess, so
it's possible that Wilmer may have gone to this hunt
club as a guest, perhaps to compete in one of
these open competitions turkey shoots they sometimes call them up
this way, things like that, where there are prizes, And
it's possible that will who would have passed by this
area going back and forth between his home base in
Lancaster County and the Peninsula down near Gloucester, etc. Where
he often fished, that he would have passed directly past
this hunt club on Interstate sixty four, so he may
have had some exposure to this hunt club off the interstate.
Speaker 4: Now.
Speaker 6: There's also a wide array of unsolved homicides in Chesapeake, Virginia,
which you can see if you look at the Chesapeake
Cold Case Database, which is available online. The earliest of
those unsolved cases took place in nineteen sixty six. Some
of those homicides are very likely attributable to Elton Manninged Jackson.
He is a serial killer who was hunting gay men
in and around the Tidewater area from eighty seven to
ninety six. He killed largely by strangulation, So some of
those may be attributable to Jackson, but those are certainly
not by any means all of the unsolved cases. There
is a string of women who were killed in the
late eighties in Chesapeake, all of whom are listed in
the Cold Case Homicide database, so we would urge law
enforcement to look at those cases a second time to
see if there's any possible connection to Wilmer.
Speaker 4: The one victim that I do think should.
Speaker 6: Very definitely be taken a look at is Donna Canaday,
age twenty two.
Speaker 4: Now.
Speaker 6: Donna was found shot and killed in a ditch near
the Chesapeake Regional Airport on October eighteenth, nineteen eighty nine.
The front and back doors of her rental house were
standing open. Person keys were missing, but her shoes were
by the front door. Money was left in plain sight.
There was no sign of struggle. Robbery was not considered
a motive, she was not sexually assaulted. I still think
it is one of those things that Wilmer ought to
be looked at for. The final murder victim that we
think should be investigated for potential involvement with Wilmer is
a case that happened in nineteen ninety seven. It is
the case of Amber Lundgren age twenty, who was last
seen outside of Barcode in Asheville, North Carolina. She was
found several hours later in a ditch, stabbed to death,
with defensive wounds on her arms and hands. The reason
that we think she should be looked at for potential
involvement with Wilmer is that the suspect and truck sketches
that were released later looks strikingly similar to Wilmer and
his truck, right down to the metal toolbox. We do
think that there are cases, even past the eighties and
well into the nineties, that Wilmer should be looked at for.
We have much more to talk about when it comes
to Lorien Powell. We also have a number of questions
that people have written in on our social media pages
to ask us that we would like to address. So
we will close this episode for now, but we will
soon drop another one answering as many of your questions
as we possibly can.
Speaker 4: In the meantime, If you have any information.
Speaker 6: Relating to Alan Wade Wilmer Senior, his whereabouts, or his associates,
you can report information in the following locations. You can
call the FBI with tips at one eight hundred call FBI,
or you you can email www dot.
Speaker 4: Tips dot FBI dot gov.
Speaker 6: If you have tips for the Virginia State Police, you
should email them questions at VSP dot Virginia dot gov.
If you have questions for us, please comment on our
social media pages, but please do not send investigative tips
to us. Those do need to go to the VSP.
Thank you so much for listening to this episode of
Mindover Murder. We'll see you next time.
Speaker 1: Mindover Murder is a production of Absolute Zero and Another
Dog Productions.
Speaker 3: Our executive producers are Bill Thomas and Kristindilley.
Speaker 1: Our logo art is by Pamela Arnoit.
Speaker 2: Our theme music is by Kevin McCloud.
Speaker 1: Mindover Murder is distributed in partnership with Coral Space Media.
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Speaker 1: You can also follow our page on the Colonial Parkway
Murders on Facebook.
Speaker 3: And finally, you can follow Bill Thomas on Twitter at
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Speaker 1: Thank you for listening to mind Over Murder.