Speaker 1: We're all owned by the syndicate Body and Soul or
should I just say buddy, Hello?
Speaker 2: Filthy movie Lovers, Something Weirdos and anti criterion brose to
the twenty fourth episode of The Sin Syndicate, the only
podcast with its own karate consultant and a personal invitation
into the vortex of voluptuousness. My name is Gentry Austen,
writer and researcher, and I'm here with my co host,
adult film historian Casey Scott. This week we are joined
again by friend of the pod and paperback freak Alex
de Santo. He's going to help us get back into
the swing of things after a two week break, and
what better way to return than to cover two black
and white dirty pictures that blur the line between sex
film and art film. Today we're going to be talking
about director Joel Landwear's orgiastic hatchet slasher in Hot Blood
and its avant garde follow up Fluctuations.
Speaker 3: Violence is her pastime, pain is what they long for,
pleasure is what they receive, and it's all in Hot Blood,
a motion picture that goes beyond anything you've ever seen
in sex.
Speaker 4: Degradation and Violence.
Speaker 3: In Hot Blood is a motion picture that is different.
It is the story of the immoral life and a
dangerous game, a story that is as raw and ugly
as murder.
Speaker 2: But first, let's check in with the Sexploitation News desk.
We've got a few updates and corrections this week. I
think we'll start with the HGL kickstarter, which was funded
with a couple days left to go. It looked like
I don't think that they reached their stretch goal to
get the thirty five millimeter prints struck, but they did
reach the goal to start work on restoring a whole
bunch of Herschel Gordon Lewis films. Any thoughts, guys, I
know we've kind of went over this a bit before.
Speaker 5: I mean, it's great, it's very exciting. I think it's
probably better news for horror fans than it is for
sexploitation fans, if I'm going to be honest.
Speaker 2: Yeah, the UHDS of the Blood trilogy is the big one.
Speaker 5: I mean, it's going to be great. I think my
concern is though, the restorations of this exploitation, because we
I mean, we just saw them announce another Blu ray
from s VHS Transfers and I'll repeat Again, SVHS transfers
do not belong on Blu ray, so if we're going
to have svhs of this exploitation, I'm not interested. So yeah,
I'm hoping that this means we're going to get transfers
from film of all of this stuff. Please pretty please.
Speaker 2: I think we are. Yeah, but what it's going to
look like is still a question, so we'll see what's available. Alex,
any thoughts, No, I'm burned out from this is good.
Speaker 4: I'm just really happy that finally this is actually happening
because two thousand Maniacs is camera negative surface, and that's
one of my favorite hbls. It was missing for the
Era release and I've just been like fingers crossed because
you know, there's something weird. Restoration was done, you know,
back when Blu rays were always like soft and trying
to scrub out grain and things like that, so that
one's in need of a big overhaul. Yeah. Again, we'll
wait to see about elements and things like that, and
oddly enough, everyone's gonna be like, what hell you're thinking of?
The second one I'm the most excited for. It probably
is actually not even the HGL film. It's stick it
in your ear which is fascinating, which is such a
fascinating movie. But yeah, nice, nice, I want to hear
more about the elements and things like that. Like, just
I don't know out of how to react yet. Great,
I just don't know what to think.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I know.
Speaker 5: I know, well, because I was going back over my
Something Weird supplement that has there, you know, the supplements,
A lot of the supplements. Sometimes they didn't have new stuff.
It was just them reminding people they had these catalogs
or collections. So there's like an HG LT Lewis supplement,
a Twisted Sex supplement, a new DQT supplement. So I
was looking for the Herschel Gordon Lewis one and it
lists all of the sources that they use on this stuff,
and so they had negatives to a lot of this stuff.
So my question is are those negatives still there or
are we going to have to deal with thirty five
millimeter prints which is less than ideal, Like are the
negatives that Something Weird had access to still available to
do these restorations? And that is a big turn of
mine because if they're not, then I'm gonna have to
hold onto the dvdrs. I guess.
Speaker 4: Yeah, and I'd hate to say it, who knows because
some of those HGL films that were saved for Arrow
were not source from whatever original elements Something Weird had,
So yeah, it's a big question mark, like grewsome two
some and things like that. What yeah, where'd you go? NAG?
Speaker 5: I know I still have my Something Weird snapcase of
that because I I'm holding on to that because it
looks it's it's a little bit more complete than the
Blu ray because you know, there's missing stuff on that
Blu ray because of print jumps and stuff.
Speaker 4: So yeah, yeah, maybe both a ristory and also maybe
include the video version if it's nicer, you know, kind
of like a Dracula thor Old Man the alternate cut
and things like that, like just yeah, just gives a glimpse.
Speaker 2: And Tserama they did that with too, Yeah.
Speaker 5: Exactly, that's a idea, Yes, And that pussy they did
that too with two because they found a longer version,
but the longer version was still saying footage from the
last transfer, So there's two versions of that. So yeah,
I think as hangs and don't do as long as
they don't do what they did with the doors Wishman's
where they just ignored the fact that two of those
movies were cut and didn't include them as extras. I
think we'll be.
Speaker 2: Fine, Yeah, Lawrence Milton Booren, we got some updates, Casey.
What did we find out about man?
Speaker 5: Yeah, so two people reached out to us. One wants
to remain nameless. The other Sean Langrick. He was great
and he is the guy who's in charge with Jane
Centis as well. I asked, and I didn't mention him
in the Orgie Castle episode, and he said, yeah, fine,
you can say I'm in touch with her. It's like, okay, good, Okay.
So we found out that our our boy Bouren has
a criminal past, which I won't go into too much
detail on. I will describe it as domestic abuse. And
it's very troubling. It's a very troubling article that was
sent to us by both researchers, and it makes me
wonder if that experience led him to seek sort of
a self counseling with this alternative thinking of like the
use of sound and light and things to kind of
improve his mind. The article also did mention that he
served time at a prison camp for his not adhering
to his draft notice. So he didn't just pay a fine.
He went to be worked on a prison farm for
I think a year because he didn't he didn't go
to go to combat for World War two.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 5: And then also the musical from Venus with Love apparently happened.
It actually was mounted. You know we were talking about
I wonder if that book was even done, because we
only knew there were songs that were done. Apparently the
book was also done, and the book was finished by
Bourne and David Reid, who we think is the David
Reid that was involved with Rat Fink, the James Landis
movie which is amazing, and Tales of a Salesman. So
the Tales of a Salesman connection makes sense to connect
Buren to sexploitation, I think. And so that was kind
of where we left with with Bourn. I just I
think it's crazy that it was shown. There was a
newspaper thing that said, from Venus would Love the first
Outer Face musical comedy. It was at the Lions Clubhouse
on Echo Park Avenue, which that building is now for
sale for a million dollars if you want to buy it,
but also said amazing story costumes, fourteen song hits. That's
a lot in spectacular rainbow rama, which of course he had,
you know, the rainbow his magic light thing that he
was selling, but also Rainbow Records, which was the record
company that put out the Psyched by the forty Witch
theme song.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I imagine he had a bunch of those rainbow
devices just like spread out all over the sure.
Speaker 5: But then they were left over. Maybe that's why he
was trying to sell them in that journal from nineteen sixty,
because this was in nineteen fifty nine, so he had
these things left in nineteen sixty, like, well, I guess
I'll try to sell these and tell people that this
is for their health. I don't know. The more I
think about it, the more I think he might have
just been a real huckster, but fascinating guy. Still feely.
Speaker 4: There's a patent for that damn light. Yeah, that exists.
Can you imagine?
Speaker 5: Sur I would love to research that. Actually I never
did research that. Maybe it's possible.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I was wondering that too.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean kind of a connection back to forty
which as well is a film called Dingle Dangle, which
was sent to us from our friend John.
Speaker 5: Charles, Yes, John who I just realized. I did the
math in my head. I have known him for more
than twenty five years, because I've known him since the
Mobius home video forum days, which that's anyone listening that
is old school, that's late nineties, early two thousands, like
the original forums for like movie people to geek out together.
That I've known him that long. And yeah, he send
us this copy of Dingle Dangle, which came out on
TVX on VHS and I don't think has ever been reissued.
You watched it. I watched it today. Do you want
it before me? Let's hear your thoughts first, because yeah,
I want to know what you thought of.
Speaker 2: It Dingle Dangle. Well, yeah, because originally, you know, if
you look at dates for it, I think the original
dates floating around the internet are like early sixties. What
was it. I'm looking it up against sixty six and
I immediately was like, there's no way this is Yeah.
It's a softcore but pretty hard sexploitation comedy with I
mean the music. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I don't know how
to put it. I mean it's it's a very early
seventies sexploitation movie with just a bunch of nothing, a
very loose plot. Of course, the songs are kind of
the big draw because you actually get to see who
we believe is Joe Bisco slash mister Johnny by the Way.
Speaker 5: And that's my big correction. Yeah, there's not a Well,
it's so funny because I went to shout out to
discogs because you know, if you're a mood music person,
discogs is your place. So apparently around the time that
we put out our Psyched by the forty Witch episode,
our conversation happened on the discogs forum discussing Joe Bisco
and his very pseudonyms, but also discussing how there's one
Johnny by the Way and there's another Johnny by the Way.
And I feel like maybe my error inspired that conversation,
which I you know, if that's the case, I love
being wrong if it leads to corrections out there. But yeah, no,
you and looking at pictures of Joe Bisco, it's very
clear that he is the guy in this movie with
a very ugly oily wig playing Johnny by the Way,
and that means that he's sang the forty Witch song,
just wrote it as Joe Bisco and then sang it
as Johnny by the way.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I know when I was watching I sent
you that photo of the guy singing in Dingle Dangle
and the Mormon podcast here, and I was like, I
don't know, there one of them's kind of a skinnier guy.
The oh there's a little heavier.
Speaker 5: Yeah.
Speaker 2: We thought we saw some similarities, but I don't think
they are the same person.
Speaker 5: No, well, I think until we saw Dingle Dangle, it
wasn't clear because we you know that Joe Bisco. I
don't even think that Joe Bisco picture was up when
I was schecking discogs, so I don't even know what
Joe Bisco looked like. So it was kind of tough
to put those together. The music is the best part
of that, but also bamby Allen is great in it
imported from La Build his Barbara Allison. So I think
this was a s exploitation entry for Joe Bisco through
James E. Myers. So, James E. Myers. This was done
around nineteen seventy one, I think, and shot in San Francisco.
James E. Myers had co written Rock around the Clock
and written all these other rock songs as Jimmy Denight,
and that's the name he used on a lot of
his exploitation That heart he acted in and also directed
some hardcore porno. But by the time this came around,
he had been like the title character and fabulous bastard
from Chicago. He'd done all this other stuff. So I
think Joe Bisco is the executive producer of this movie,
so he financed it. So Myers must have just been
like listen, Sexpotation movies are where it's out the money.
There's good money in them, and he's the assistant director
on this too, So I think that's why it looks
better than all the other Bobby Davis stuff, because Bobby
Davis wrote and directed it. His stuff is usually so
low rent and gross, and this looks much better than
like my sister's business, which is really really rough, So
this is a huge stuff up for him.
Speaker 2: It's still mostly set in lights, one or two rooms
of a house.
Speaker 5: Basically you'd think it was shown in Los Angeles because
other San Francisco films would take advantage of those locations
and have a lot more outdoor footage. This doesn't look
like a bunch of hotel rooms. Yeah, it's just not
Elizabeth Knowles is in it in a very bad wig
and she had done She's people would know it from
like Trader Horney and The Masterpiece and just the two
of us. And she has a very bad American accent
in this. Clear Dia and her real life boyfriendly Parsons
our boyfriend and girlfriend in this.
Speaker 2: Yes see, I didn't recognize her people in this, but
I definitely did.
Speaker 5: Yeah, yeah, I definitely did. So that was good. Yeah,
Bambi Allen was like immediate. I was like, oh my god,
Babby Allen's great. So yeah, she's she's great and her
implants have settled, so she looks good, I know, heartening
back to our conversation, you know, but she's good in this.
I think she and the songs are the best thing
about this. I think she's just you know, endlessly charming
as usual and really has a good brings. She elevates
the production and then she disappears way too quick.
Speaker 6: Yeah.
Speaker 2: I think what stands out to me is the inclusion
of some black actors in this, and they're getting in
on the action and it's not you know, done in
like a stereotypical way. They're just part of the film.
You know, they're just act right bodies in the film
and then they do something. There's some interesting sex swing action,
but yeah.
Speaker 4: It's just oh that's the only good scene. Yeah, okay,
like love, I only love that scene. That's about it.
If I was curious about what Dingle Dangle is out of,
just like, it's all all it entails folks out there
because it's not the easiest to find. It's literally just
the day in the life of suburbanites who are bored. Yeah,
that's it, folks.
Speaker 5: Davis. It's like a Don Davis movie.
Speaker 4: Basically, it's exactly Don Davis, more.
Speaker 5: Diverse and in San Francisco instead of Los Angeles. Yeah,
and trying to describe it as like being in the suburbs,
and it's like, okay, the suburbs, Like it opens with
them with baby Allen taking a cab in San Francisco,
it is not the suburbs. And then the guys her
she's the secretary, and so it's Bunny Brodie who was
in Green Door in Resurrection of Eve. Yeah, and that
Ed Sander who's in What Home Brother Charles, which was
a big surprise to me. I was like, oh wow,
I didn't think he did anything else. He is a
talent agent who's married to Elizabeth Knowles Claar Diaz, the
daughter George McDonald from Green Doors, The Milkman, and it's
just it's just people randomly having sex. It's very similar
to like early hardcore, but it is also very San Francisco,
and then it feels more. It has a lot of
like long haired hippie chicks, very San Francisco, not like
La at all. It's not the La girls that are
trying to be models and movie stars. It's San Francisco
girls who were like, yes, I'll take my clothes up
in front of the camera and have sex. I'm doing
it anyway. So it has that San Francisco look. And
also San Francisco was much more about interracial you know,
interracial sex and equality in front of the screen and
things like that. It's much more diverse than San Francisco,
so you feel San Francisco, which was the year after this,
So I think it is. I think seventy one is
probably the right.
Speaker 4: That would have to be because Klemiel's first release Slash Product,
no they didn't produced this was Double in Fidelity, which
is nineteen seventy. Ah, Okay, it cannot be earlier nineteen seven. Yeah,
they distributed this one as well.
Speaker 5: Calemille, Okay, that's right, and then they reassure slighted by
the forty witch and blood freak. Yeah that's right. I'm
not I'm remembering the episode now.
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. They had a few original productions,
but apparently they mostly picked up other people's already release
pictures that I think, yeah, yeah, right, but had a
few original productions or things like that.
Speaker 5: H Frank Harry who ran in I'm glad that. I'm
glad John sent it to us so we could, you know,
check it off. But I would not recommend any kind
of struggle to see it. I think if you come
across it, right, I I'm glad that I was able
to see bmby Allen once again do her thing and
be great. And it's a nice reminder of how much
we lost when she died unexpectedly. She's not enough and
clear Dea so much better, and now their stuff like
this is very early clear deal, like she got so
good when she's in like three AM and desires with
young girls in hardcore, and even what about Jane in
the year after, She's terrific in that. So it's not
it's fluff.
Speaker 4: Yeah, it's fifty minutes of near hardcore grinding, folks. That's it.
That's it. That's it. That is all it is.
Speaker 5: It feels longer than an hour, yeah, it's yeah, it's
one of those where it drags.
Speaker 2: Yeah. I'm always curious with these films though, to see
like how far they push it for softcore and this
simulated double penetration even so, it's like, Wow, they're seeing
how far they can go here.
Speaker 5: Yeah, they're in San Francisco, so I don't know why
they didn't go further. It would be a while till
James E. Myers actually did hardcore, because he directed what
Rendezvous in Hell I think was his, and I think
he did Swinging Genie.
Speaker 4: The campaign even claims that's triple X, but alas awful.
Speaker 5: Well that's funny because you know who also calls software
triple x is Rottler. In the contemporary erotic cinema. Thing
he calls triple X is not hardcore. It just means
it's the most graphic, not necessarily actual penetration. Triple X
for hardcore didn't really happen until later, you know, Yeah,
you're right, three X just means Oh, it's the hottest
thing on the planet when it absolutely isn't. It was
just a marketing technique at that point, not an actual rating.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I.
Speaker 5: Think did you watch it, Alex?
Speaker 4: I watched it this morning. I skimmed it this morning.
I skimmed through it. That's I give him a.
Speaker 5: Cool attention because I knew that I was going to
get rid of it after I finished, and I had
to review it for a letterbox, so I was like, Okay,
I'm noting making note of everything and goodbye.
Speaker 4: I've always been curious just because I have this really
like a whack job hack of a press book that
doesn't have ad mats. But like, that's just.
Speaker 5: That white photos with purple against a purple background. Yeah,
you use color photos a.
Speaker 4: Great little I'm Johnny by the way, I'm so and
so like those.
Speaker 5: The music is good, and unfortunately I can't find any
evidence it was ever released anywhere.
Speaker 4: Imagine Thiss got like a little promotional something or another.
Speaker 5: Yeah, I would love it, it's just not on discogs.
Speaker 2: Well you might have to scan that for us, Alex,
because maybe does that cover have any nudity on it?
Speaker 4: No, no, it goes. I would like to like, no, no,
it's got a little blob so.
Speaker 5: A horrible wig in the top.
Speaker 6: Right.
Speaker 4: This is the one sheet, but the one sheet had
a lot more white to it. This is a little
bit more narrow, but I think this is what the
one sheet looked like.
Speaker 5: There's a bunch of floating heads.
Speaker 2: Because you can't even heard that image online any what
year is this?
Speaker 5: What year is this? That is not nineteen seventy one
graphic design?
Speaker 4: That's really it's it's nothing. Yeah, yeah, I.
Speaker 5: Mean Daisy's ain't did that and that was two years ago.
That was two years before this. I mean, you know,
so I don't know. I guess it just shows that.
Speaker 7: I know, it's funny because because because Uhumill's earlier campaign
ripped off like the my tam b loook instead like
it's a lot cleaner, yeah, and things like that.
Speaker 4: I don't know what happened. I don't know what what
what who Frank Harr hired to do the Daggle Dangel
campaign because he was doing fine with Barco's like stock
this exploitation design, Hey, I like to think is maybe
just Bobby Davis going, you know what, I can do this?
Speaker 5: It looks like I have that.
Speaker 4: It looks like it looks like Bobby Davis decided too.
Speaker 5: It looks like Bobby's like, you can do this, I
did it before, which is crazy. That's probably what happened
because my sister's business is one of the worst press
books ever.
Speaker 4: You have something fun with that? Wow, okay, because the
one sheets already bad enough too.
Speaker 5: Oh the press book is terrible and it doesn't even
try to hide the leading ladies mustache at all. With
the mustache, yeah, it's crazy.
Speaker 2: Well, you saw that image Alex that I tried to
get uploaded of the rear end. What was that from
for Daniel's angle? Did you see that image?
Speaker 5: I think it was actually John's video cover?
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's yeah, yeah, I was wondering this thing is presented.
Speaker 4: Yeah, it's just a They just like, well, see you
flipped the magazine tore it out. But that's why you.
Speaker 5: Scan that, because then you can upload that to t
m dB and then letters can then upload that image.
Speaker 2: Exactly because they will not put the image.
Speaker 5: That VHS cover is terrible. I don't know what they
were thinking with that.
Speaker 4: That's yeah. I'm trying to think did anyone actually rent that?
Did any little old man.
Speaker 5: Yeah, somebody who wanted like butt Cake magazine or something
from Golden Child got this. Yeah.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's marketed like it looks like more of a
gay film than a straight film.
Speaker 4: I know. I wonder if there's any images on the
back of the box, like what kind of stills r
on the back too to try and promote this? Is
there anything or not?
Speaker 5: It looks like a cover for like fun Buns Contest,
which is a very cheap gay porn that that's something
weird put out in a bunch of other people because
it's like dirt cheap. But yeah, it looks like fun
Buns Contest to me, Well enough.
Speaker 2: Enough bashing undingled dangle, I know, no.
Speaker 5: More dingle dangle, dangle dangle, Fuck you me, Davis.
Speaker 2: Let's talk about Joel Land where the man, he's got
to serve vibing films that we can talk about. So
maybe we start with but only two week and talk
about Yes, but only two week can talk about Let's
just talk about the man. Let's start there, Casey, what
do you think is that a good place?
Speaker 8: Well?
Speaker 5: This I have not been able to sleep for the
past several days because I've been so bothered by this guy.
But not no, not even in like a funny way,
because like so I knew. I found out about Oh God,
twenty eleven. I think I was researching it, and I
found that he had died in nineteen eighty one, because
he was I found it in Social Security death indecks
that he died in April nineteen eighty one. And it
wasn't until recently that I found that there was a
death notice in the New York Times that said that
he was brutally murdered. I will read that piece. Where
did that piece go? There? It is so the family
of the late Joel Land Where this is from the
May third, nine and eighty one New York Times death notice.
So the family of the late Joel Land, where adored
son of Anne and dear brother of Sheldon rtally murdered
at age thirty nine. Thank his friends for their profound
expressions of sympathy. He was quiet, gentle, considerate, did his best,
and left the world a better place than he found it.
We shall miss him more than we can say. Sheldon
Land where so haunting? Yeah, because I can find nothing
more about this, about this murder, I don't know why
it happened. I don't know where it happened or how
it happened. I don't know if anyone was arrested or convicted.
I don't know if justice was served. I don't know
anything about it. So I reached out to the New
York Records Apartment and I have an appointment with them
to see them on Thursday next week to look through
the homicide logs of the NYPD in nineteen eighty one
to see if it was documented. But they have advised
if he was not murdered in Manhattan, I had to
go to all the other boroughs records offices to look
at their homicide logs for a night's in eighty one.
So I am prepared to go the distance for this
because I want to know what happened. Like I'm very
haunted by this, but I'm also I'm also bothered by
it because Sheldon died in twenty eleven. He was a
very successful film and food critic sowed. You can find
reviews of him all over the place New York posts,
different magazines. He had like a radio show in the
sixties and seventies. So he died and he was gay,
and he left behind a partner that auctioned off his
belongings at an auction house in Florida, but nowhere does
he mention that he was predeceased by a brother and
then his mother. When his mother died in nineteen ninety nine,
that obituary does not mention that she was predeceased by
a brother. So the last evidence that Joel Landber even
existed is his death notice. And that really bothers me
because how brutal was this murder and what were the circumstances.
You mentioned a possibility of maybe something involving something criminal potentially,
which is always a possibility. My thought was that it
was maybe it was a case of like in an
a mereror brother situation where we had two gay brothers
and one was killed in like a cruising situation. Thing
goes to that just because there's no if there's no
record of it, there's a reason for it, like the
fact that I couldn't find any other anything else. Maybe
this maybe this murder was reported on, but he wasn't
named because the nature of the murder. So yeah, I
haven't I haven't really been able to sleep because of
this because it's really bothering me, and the irony is
it's over these two pieces of shit that I'm that
I that I am that I'm obsessed with finding out
what happened to this guy.
Speaker 4: Because I was just about to a second.
Speaker 5: I do love in Hot Blood, but it's not a
good movie. But but I'm dying to know, you know,
I and I found a lot of other very instring information.
He made a film called A Puritan's Dream, which was
a short film that was distributed in sixty seven sixty
eight all over Actually I mean it toured it. It
showed up in all sorts of different underground film screenings
nationwide and then toured with like a package of other films.
And I don't know who the disturbed was because I
can't find that information either. A sixteen millimeter print is
at the filmmaker's co op here in New York and
they it has screened as recently as two thousand and one.
Because I found I found, I found evidence that it
screened as part of a film program. He used the
name Leo J. Rudnall on that as well. So I've
emailed the filmmaker's co op to ask them, how can
I screen this? I don't have a six film millimeter
projector can I screen it there and I have to
hear back, so I've emailed so many people. I emailed
the auction house where the auction was, because that's the
crazy thing. Sheldon's obituary, he doesn't mention his late brother.
When I looked at the auction page in twenty eleven
or twenty twelve, there was a lot of stuff that
was the script for In Hot Blood, the script for Fluctuations, photos,
press books for this stuff, and then I think it
was either the negative or a print of a third movie,
which might have been Puritan's Dream, or it might have
been a third movie that we don't know about. That
stuff is white from the internet because it was over
a decade ago, so they don't hold that online for
you to look at the auction. So I emailed them
and I want to know the details of that auction.
But it's interesting that he held on to his brother's
stuff for that long and took it with him when
he moved to Florida from New York, Like was that
all that was left of his brother was the film stuff,
and so he held on to it. Like it's just
it's really crazy to think about, and it just I
think it's a great example of how like even the
most ridiculous, crazy movies in this genre have really interesting
stories behind them related to the people who made them, right,
And it just makes me all think about films that
we don't know who made them, so who knows what
that story is? I mean, But the search continues for
the Joel.
Speaker 6: Facts.
Speaker 5: I'm waiting to hear back from an actress that he
did social things with in New York who was like
the daughter of a British diplomat. And I'm waiting to
hear back from the late the partner of the late brother.
Like I've put out my feelers for everybody, and I'm
hoping that, like over the next week, I'll have people
trickling back in to let me know what they know. Yeah,
but yeah, I've been obsessed with the past like four days,
four or five days, and it drives me nuts because
I want answers now, but I have to wait basicently.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I mean the partner of the brother. I
feel like there's no reason not to talk if he
has something to say at this point, right, they're both
gone out.
Speaker 5: It was I asked him, did Sheldon ever talk about Joel? Like,
do you know? I didn't ask that I didn't ask
about how he was murdered. I asked about, well, I'm
trying to also find what happened between. I described it
as I was looking for information on a film director
and I know his last one was nineteen seventy and
then I found out that he was murdered in nineteen
eighty one, So I'd like to know what his life
was like between that time and did Joell ever talk
about him? But because you know, and I've referenced the
notice in the New York Times where obviously it was
something that the family was very hurt by. Yeah, so
we'll see what happens. I mean, it's definitely something you
have to try to lightly with. It's kind of like
reaching out to like family members of deceased filmmakers and
actors and actresses. It's kind of like, listen, I'm not
trying to like muck Rake or trying to like you know,
I'm just trying to find find I'm just trying to
learn about who who this person was. And it would
be super helpful if one of the last people who
knows he had no other siblings, no other family, no
extended family, and was and had no other family so yeah,
I you know, I don't know, and uh, that's where
I'm at with Joel. It was way easier researching stand
bored and I'll tell you that.
Speaker 2: So well, so Apperitzin's Dream, who really.
Speaker 5: Don't even that what that is?
Speaker 3: Yeah?
Speaker 2: Did it get distributed? Description any one we know?
Speaker 5: Or was it just not a clue? Yeah, not a clue.
There's no, there's nothing. There's no distributor listed in any
of the stuff I could find about Puritan's Dream. You know,
it's kind of like, I think it's similar to like
Vapors the Milligan movie, where it's like you want to
if you see ads for that, you're not necessarily in
the paper. It's a short film, you're not necessarily going
to see who the distributor is. It'll say like underground
Sensation Puritan's Dream, and that's it, Like if it's an
underground film. I think they also want to keep that
air of mystery about it, like, well, who made this?
And that's why he had his fake name on it,
Leo Rudnell.
Speaker 2: Well that was used that on all these films, didn't he.
Speaker 5: Yes, And I was around so many weird references in
the papers he went to like social gatherings, and he
went to Warhol parties and met with Ultraviolet, and there's
a there's a news piece where they they told each
other what their real names were. So I think you'd ask, like,
how do we know Leo J. Rudenwell is Joel.
Speaker 2: Landware besides these It's a matter of.
Speaker 5: Record in the in in in the New York Times
and also was mentioned in the AFI cat log. Yeah,
but yeah, it's it's interesting. It's uh that I found
more under the fake name in my research than I
did under his real name, because I think he was
trying to establish Leo g. Rudnall is some kind of
underground yeah person to pay attention to.
Speaker 6: Well.
Speaker 2: The fact that you mentioned him going to Warhol parties,
I think is like a key part of understanding Joel
in that these films are best looked at as kind
of underground art films in a way. And I know
I said in my intro like sometimes the line is yeah,
one of them more than the other, but maybe one
of them.
Speaker 5: Yeah, maybe I don't know what you're saying.
Speaker 2: The line between art and sex films, I think is pretty.
Speaker 5: Things with certain filmmakers, that's true.
Speaker 2: I mean, yeah, Milligan's vapors is a good example, you know,
and he played he played around in uh in warholschool.
He hated Warhol, but he still played around in those
circles as well, right, Alex, Yeah.
Speaker 4: I mean he served for a whole of summer. So, yes,
they've interacted.
Speaker 6: Yes, Sandy takes out the mesa dream. The girls called
ho speedy. We to get the water and revert to
obligingly give Sandy the shot.
Speaker 2: But well, maybe that's a good segue to the stan
Borden who kind of helped get these in theaters. Alex,
I think you could probably tell us more about stan Bordon.
Speaker 4: Not in his early years case he was star in
his early years.
Speaker 5: That yeah, so I did dig into that because I
was like, where did the hell did Stan Bordon come from? Brooklyn? Boy,
like many of our people, noney of our expectations expotation
people fought in World War Two. Actually was able to
confirm he was awarded three Air Medals for meritis achievement
in the sustained bomber combat operations over Germany and German
occupied countries. So he was in the Air Force and
so he did.
Speaker 2: He mean, Barry Mayde, maybe can you imagine it's possible.
Speaker 5: It's possible. I mean, maybe it's possible. I don't know.
It's interesting they never really crossed paths, or maybe they
did and he just didn't want to work with them.
But yeah, once he got back from the war, he
I'm not sure how he got involved with with RKA
Unique Records, but that's kind of the beginning of that's
the earliest I can find of him movie with entertainment.
Speaker 4: There's a really there's a hazy rumor that he was
a jukebox jobber earlier on. He had a bit of
a like uh, disadvantage of upbringing. According to Vernon Becker,
he had been a young kind of hood in the
late thirties. To support his family, he worked as a
strong arm man and then somehow ended up becoming a
jukebox jobber for Hotman there, you know, buying jukeboxes and
like reselling them and things like that. But like you said,
how he got Eddie farther into music, That's the big
mystery right there, is how he went from this small
time local thing into that.
Speaker 5: Yeah, not able to trace that. But then it's also strange.
I'm it's tough to trace how he got from music
after RKO Unique Records went out, well, he was fired
but then they went out of business. But then he oh,
he got into the film business. Thor Dick Randall, I
think because Dick Randall was a music guy before he
got into film. So I think one of the first
movies he did was he was executive producer on a
movie called News of All Nations, which was then released
under several different titles, and that was not distributed by him.
It was distributed by another company called Union Film Distributors.
But that's the first evidence I could find him working
on any movie.
Speaker 4: Yeah, at sixty two, and then around that time he
acquired the British new dye Sun Swept, and that supposedly
did really well for him, so he continued. I think
at first he was going to be he was gained
to kind of more so release in like art films
and you know and foreign product and things like that,
and he did through American like one or two little
things for the most part. But Sun Swept did really
really well for him. So it seems like that is
what led him to continue going down exploitation Uh in st.
Speaker 5: Pickup or did he add yeah, sub subs what?
Speaker 1: Uh?
Speaker 4: It's lost. As far as I know, it's lost, so
I haven't found a copy of it.
Speaker 5: I don't think they're added footage. I think because like
a lot of those British nudies were important, I don't
think they had to add anything. It was just nudity.
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, I've never heard of a British nudity nudy
sorry ever having out of anything like anyone's ever released,
I don't think.
Speaker 5: Right, it's not like a low hunger situation or like violated.
It's not like a South American pickup where they had
to add stuff because they weren't.
Speaker 4: No, yeah, yeah, yeah exactly. Because there was stuff going
on over there, like Harrison Marx was doing all sorts
of things and stuff like that. There were a few,
like little nudy things going on, just not as big
as what was going on in the US. So that
was the birth of American film distributing pretty much, and
then he became a powerhouse in.
Speaker 3: I want.
Speaker 4: I want to see like the high tier exploitation world
kind of like like like like the mid slash lower
tier stuff that we all kind of have a soft
spot for, like the five to ten thousand dollars productions
type of films. He wasn't like a canvas or an
audubon that you know, like you know, had less titles,
but they played for a lot longer in one or
two theaters. He was one of the like one to
two weekers who always had a strong succession of product
and he was apparently pretty fair guy to work with.
Like again, he came from music, which was even more
crooked than film, So from all I've heard, he was
a pretty good guy to get along with. Everyone who
was around him at the time kept on hinting that
he had some mob ties to the Jewish mob, and
his business for the most part was a really smart one,
especially if and to survive as an exploitation filmmaker. He
bought films outright normally no percentage or anything like that,
for ten to fifteen thousand dollars three payments, and unlike
most people, you actually got paid, which again is a
pretty good living for making these types of movies. Like
Mike Finley made his living off of stick.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I was gonna say, to make money, if he's
going to sell it outright to stand, you know, he
has to make it for like five or ten to
make five grand off of it if he sells it
for fifteen right.
Speaker 4: Yeah, exactly, for about that much, And if you weren't
going into like distributing yourself or something like that. Honestly,
that was probably the smarter thing to do instead of
trying to get percentage or something like that. And that's
normally when you got stiffed or something like that, you
were better off shooting a film for three to five
thousand dollars, selling it for around ten, and then rinse
and repeating because then because because then like like there
was not probably not as much of a need to
stiff you. Your film was the just ditributors now they
did not have to deal with you anymore. You were gone,
so pay you off, You're fine. And so yeah, that's
how people like Mike lived. Jack Brafman later started doing
that for American Film, then went on to do it
distri picks. Did Casey did letter Kurtman have kind of
a similar deal with distri picks early on?
Speaker 5: Yes, Kurt Kurt Films, Yeah.
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, he kind of did the same thing as
well too, like three thousand and sold them for more outright, Yeah.
Speaker 5: And then Chuck Smith same thing. Chuck Smith made movies
and then sold them out right to district Picks two.
So yeah, I mean that was kind of the that's why,
Like I know you've asked that on a several previous episodes,
like how well did this movie? Did the directors know?
How well this movie do? Is like, no, they wouldn't
because they sold it, Like they're not going to track
it because they got the money to then pocket and
then pay back anybody who invested in it, and then
that's it, Like they're not going to track it or
follow it because that they're on to the next thing,
which I think is honestly, I think it's smart, especially
if you know that you're not going to get stiffed.
And there's also so I think Stan probably was the
best one. But it's not like there was a lack
of options for distributors in New York, so you know,
but I think Mike got really lucky because we talked
about it where he was at once he was with
what's his space for since Syndicate, and then he was
with some Brenner who was a nightmare, and then he
was with for that I think that was body with
female twos those two, and then it was Satan's Bed
for somebody else and then he stumbled into Borden to
take me naked, and then he stayed there for like
four years.
Speaker 4: Hey, that's why. That's why I found very I find
very fascinating about a company like American Film Distributors is
just wading through their titles. Is they just run the
gamut from Michael's more polished mos stuff two things that
might have live sound, but we're only photographed with one
single light in a room, to weird rdy stuff like
take me naked, or fluctuations or to slop like all
when are bad or love captive that are absolutely batshit insane. Yeah,
as well, the American Film catalog is just is like
a great like starter fors like what were you going
to get every single week? Pretty much?
Speaker 5: Yeah, they also handled They also did regional distribution for
like yes, the Forbidden and for was to California and
then there was something else. There were some other ones
that they did to regional distribution too. So that also
makes it a more diverse catalog because then you're dealing
with like films shot in color, are films shot not
outside of New York apartments that aren't that don't don't
look the same his French imports are pretty good too.
I think he had good taste in those two generally.
Speaker 4: Yeah, one or two. And he did some ballsy stuff
as well, Like some of the content that he let
slide in a few of these movies. I'm like, oh, man,
that must have gone snipped out of some prints.
Speaker 5: Probably some of the things like like well, it's even
interesting to like because yeah, you mentioned that, like he's
like lower to mid tiers, not like at Canvas or something.
I feel like he started out pretty I think his
quality was higher when he started out, and then as
things got sleazy er and grosser in the industry, he
really started wallowing in the gutter. I mean.
Speaker 4: After a time, he had a really good, like kind
of system going on there. You know, he had the
same consistent campaigns, see the exact same uniform look. Almost
all his films would first go premiere either that at
the Cameo or the Tivoli, so on, so forth. So yeah,
the first couple of years are very interesting because at
the very least he cares enough to use a little
bit of like the splashes of red in his campaigns
and things like that. But yeah, they are some of
the grimiest looking little bad boys.
Speaker 6: Sensual pleasure is their greatest goal in life. They dance
a dance of desire, desperately seeking gratification they love.
Speaker 4: That's what I mean. Why why I say there, That's
why I mean why I say their quality is kind
of very fascinating and things like that in terms of like, yeah, no,
they weren't about to release, like or produce bigger things
like Arouse, which is like twenty or like forty thousand dollars,
but something like the Olga films which only cost a
couple grand each but had really good technicians and people
behind them, so they look more expensive.
Speaker 5: Right, But then he had district pick shit like Frustrated
Shari or any of the Leonard Kurtman shit or it's
just like that's lower quality than in the American film catalog.
So like you had there were levels.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean as a distributor, not of film, but
I mean like like as a distributor, not the quality
of their products, but like they would weren't like doing
really big runs in the big houses. None of the
American product was going to play the pussy Cat, not
even at the Monica for a lot of time, you know,
like it like he he was consistent and made really
good money things like that, but it was not one
of one of the really really big guys.
Speaker 5: Right, So interesting. I love his catalog. There aren't that
many missing, are there. I feel like there's only like a.
Speaker 4: There's a chunk, there's a there's a chunk still like
everyone's a blue moon. I'm like, oh wait, yeah, the
Rodkins missing, some massage parlor is missing, and a few
of one or two things have shown up. But I
was at least two thirds of it exist in any way,
in some way, shape or form. They were. Yeah, the
catalog was kind of fragmented, like they weren't all found
in one place, right like, because some had even been
like a bunch of them were abandoned at movie Lab.
Some had actually a chunk of that Mike found they
had been sold to Harry Ferris over in California. Harry
Ferris ended up with a chunk of the catalog, things
like Take Me Naked and White Slaves of Giantown. So
some of these actually showed up all the way over
in California. You know where the final third ended up. Yeah,
it's a mystery because yeah, we also don't I don't
think we have sound swept eves On Skis.
Speaker 5: I don't think so On Skis exists, but oh it
does not on film? Yeah it's available, you can see it.
Speaker 4: Oh crap, Okay, okay, because.
Speaker 5: I think actually it's because that was an import, so
anything import I I don't assume that that would ever
be here. I feel I feel like they would maybe
have a dupe negative here. I don't know if he
ever bought those in perpetuity either, because I think those
I think eves On Skis came out as a DVD
extra for something in the UK. Okay, a distributor has it.
Speaker 4: It also because you were because you were there back
when these were first being found. So some other films
also took a while to surface as well too, right
like the Christopher Flesh.
Speaker 5: Ever Flesh took forever, yes, because so I don't know.
Speaker 4: I'm not sure where that showed up, So like two
or three spots, these these films have been kind of
spread out unfortunately.
Speaker 5: Yeah, well there was definitely that, But then it was
also like they were going through and transferring stuff constantly,
so they were kind of discovering stuff that either wasn't
labeled or was incorrectly labeled. Or you know, because there
was a massive amount of stuff. I think, yeah, I
think that was the Yeah, so I think it's well, yeah,
it's kind of like with the Brenner stuff, where like
the imports, I think go back to the go back
to the well and those like go back to the
source country for those. But like something that's like case
of the Stripping Wives was distributed here by American Film.
I even I think it was handled by Inner Film
in Florida, but I think it was. I think it
was them everywhere else, American Film distributing, and that's like
not anywhere. All we have is that Simon Reel, I think,
and that's it.
Speaker 4: Yeah, also sued. Yeah. So mostly mostly we're pretty lucky.
We're pretty lucky with this catalog on like Chancellor chance
or something.
Speaker 5: Else, yes, or Shelley him.
Speaker 2: You could watch like the standboard in catalog and get
a pretty good picture of like the changes and the
sex Bloki film industry.
Speaker 5: Absolutely, yeah, absolutely, and they're pretty and they're pretty consistent too.
There aren't that many like outright dogs in that catalog.
Speaker 2: I mean, there's the Jack Braverman stuff is, but.
Speaker 4: Even those are like fascinating at least at least one
or two of them are really interesting, but that's bottom
of the barrel.
Speaker 5: But even stuff like Jennifer and Una, which were Jennifer
is good and I like Marina Una is imported from
San Francisco. UNA's good. So yeah, I think it's very
I think it's a very consistent catalog. I mean, whether
he had any kind of taste or not, or he
just bought based on how we could market it, I
think it's I think it's pretty consistent. There aren't that
many movies that I would say, don't watch this in
their catalog. Plutuations is one of those.
Speaker 2: So they're done at nineteen seven. There's nothing after that.
Speaker 4: Right, well, I can find well kind of yes, because
well not well, not for a hot minute, but later on,
when Stan was investing in Mike's three D lens, right
like one thing to see, there's a really weird period
in nineteen seventy six where a the lens was taking
a long time to be developed. So Stan produced Funk
three D utilizing some of the test footage from the lens.
But also just like he was a little bit concerned
enough to where his money was going, so he's like,
let's do something with this lens, so they shot Funk
three D. He released that the ads I've seen say
American film that's nineteen seventy six. And then one of
his biggest releases, which tragically for him, absolutely tanked after
the first week, was Bloodsucking Freaks as the Incredible Torture Show,
which got which Stan gave a very big release to
that multi multi run.
Speaker 2: Well the types remember casey of your friend Adrian. He
was going to see our.
Speaker 5: Friends tapes with with our least favorite person Bills.
Speaker 2: On the phone with Bill Landis, and Bill Landis was
going to see Bloodsucking Freaks under that title under the
and the way Landis was talking about it was like
this is a big production. It was like a big party.
Speaker 5: And it was a reissue that was that debt Debt
recording from eighty one or eight.
Speaker 2: Yeah, you're right, so that was like the real issue
of it.
Speaker 4: After Yeah, that would have to be that.
Speaker 2: It sounds like they were still making like a big
show of it. You know, this is kind of like
a midnight show.
Speaker 5: I think Trauma had it at that point.
Speaker 4: Trauma had it at that point. It it should have
been it should not have been as big of a
release as it was someone convinced Stan to do like
a big multi run like multiple multiple day and dates,
which this it probably just should have stayed at like
one theater. For the most part, it did great the
first week. It did fantastic business the first week, and
in the second week it immediately died it completely. He
just passed. Yeah, just absolutely ended things and that was
he had to stand bored it. Apparently he wasn't doing
the best health wise either as well up into the
seventies and things like that either, like the wind was
starting to get out of a sales a little bit.
He was always a little bit unhealthy, Like he just
always kind of was at the end of the day.
Smoked a lot. Everyone always comments that he always had
cigar ash on him whenever they met him, Like he
drooled a little bit and had cigar ash on him
at all times. But he was lovely.
Speaker 5: I can't think I always think of Lorraine with Stan,
which is not the case, because I mean, that was
something interesting because I was reason in Lorrain because I
was trying to see if she's still around, and she's not.
She died in twenty eighteen, but she was someone who
she became super successful, I think more successful than Stan
ever once I mean she I found a really good
article in the New York Daily News in the Business
section where they had this whole focus on her with
the photo of her and everything in her office of
Great Scott Advertising, which was named after her son, and
of her background in film, no mention of Stan whatsoever.
It really was just about how she basically built herself up.
And apparently Stan worked at her office, but I don't
know in what role. That's not mentioned in that article.
And I think she was actually really heavily involved with
that three D process in terms of financing and trying
to work figure out how to market it and get
other financiers involved, because went in there. I've had an
article where it was reporting on Findley's death and Lorraine
is quoted because she said, yeah, my company was investing
in his three D process and he was a technical
genius like she. You know, she had nothing but good
stuff to say about Mike in that interview. But I
think she's also I don't know about Lorraine because she
had a long term business relationship with Donald Trump. She
was most of her marketing and everything in advertising was
involved with real estate in New York and so she
got a shit ton of money from all these real
estate people and Donald Trump was one of those. So
Trump Tower. She was very involved with Trump Tower from
the very beginning. She was involved with Trump starting in
like the early eighties, late seventies, early eighties, the infancy
of Trump, and she kept her relationship going with him
until the agency closed and she retired. So don't love that.
Speaker 2: I mean, I feel like you can't be in real
estate in New York and not run into Trump at
that time, you know.
Speaker 5: I mean, running into Trump is different than actively like
promoting him and contributing to his image and making him
popular in New York and helping him make money and
that kind of thing. So I mean she was, Yeah,
she was kind of I consider her like a henchman essentially, because.
Speaker 4: She all heard is that she was a very tough,
take it or leave a kind of woman.
Speaker 5: Yeah, I get that.
Speaker 4: In question all I really got from her, Although apparently
she did do some film campaign stuff too, because Lloyd
Coffin once.
Speaker 5: Horrors for Warner Oh, yes, which is crazy. I'm just like,
what do you mean to do to a little of Horrors?
It's mentioned in that article. Really Okay, good for her,
but their son is alive. It was Scott Borden, and
I'm like, should should I reach out to see if
he wants to talk about his parents? I have no idea.
I also don't know if Stan is his father, because
he was born nineteen seventy.
Speaker 2: They married, got marriedly one yeah.
Speaker 5: So I don't know if she had him before they
got married and it's Stan's son, or if that was
his son from another relationship and they met a year later.
I really I don't know the nature of that relationship
and the development of it. I'd love to know. Maybe
Scott knows.
Speaker 4: Did you actually talk Did you actually actually ever talk
to her because you had her number?
Speaker 8: Right?
Speaker 5: No, I don't know. I never called her because everyone
you know why, because of fucking Bill Landis where Bill
Lindas says that everyone's a nightmare. It turns out they're
not a nightmare. They're only a nightmare because he was
a nightmare and he scared the shit out of people
and bothered people over the phone, sort of like if oh, yeah,
everyone was terrified of Broberta for years because he harassed
her so hard. She still to this day does not
answer her home phone number. It's you know, so Bill
and has developed the developed reputations around people like, oh, yeah,
I don't talk to them. They're really a pain in
the ass. And then it turns out, no, they weren't.
They just you were the pain in the ass, and
they they thought every researcher was like you. So you know,
it's an uphill battle when you have people like that
who are representing researchers and pulling ship like that. So
I never got to talk to her. Apparently another researcher has,
but I don't know if that's accurate or not. I'll
leave it at that.
Speaker 2: Yeah, you can see Stan in Olga's Girls.
Speaker 4: And George Weis.
Speaker 5: Yeah, yeah, I will say not in gotta say, I
mean not attractive.
Speaker 2: Well, he's not an actor, so you don't need to
just I don't care.
Speaker 5: They're hot men in this business, Sandy Johnson, they are
hot men in this business.
Speaker 6: Yeah, he's not Sandy Awakening and a drug stupa can
think only of revenge and retaliation. Violence is imprinted on
her brain and ticks away like a time bomb.
Speaker 2: So you know, thinking about stans like catalog here, where
does Joel fit to me? He's like an outlier in
that he seems like an artsy guy.
Speaker 5: I don't think I don't think Borden financed the stuff.
I think it was all self fins and he bought
it out right. I don't think Borden was a financier
for any of them.
Speaker 2: You don't think they had an agreement before he was
a distributor.
Speaker 4: No, I don't think so. Well, so what else would
you really do? Because after you're making experimental film, experimental
film doesn't make money. What's the closest cheap genre that
you can do, yeah, to try and make something? So yeah, yeah,
so who knows, Like he could have he could have
just been like looking through distributors, could have done what
what Finley did and just look at the one sheets
of distributors that were like the reason we love it.
There a few catalogs, like like one of the things
I had that listed American film distributors, like that was
just like a catalog of all sorts of different distributors
and like it says, they're like we handle like normally
exploitation type stuff and things. So there were like a
few resources around at the time.
Speaker 5: Right, Well, and then that's just and that's kind of
what I'd like to know who distributed Puritan's Dream, because
I can't find any evidence who distributed it. But the
fact is, I mean, he got his foot in the
door with that short film, so it's possible he used
that as like a calling card and was like, well,
I got I had this movie, I did it in
theaters made, so why don't you take a chance on
purchasing this movie from me, regardless of whether it's good
or not. I think that was the situation, and then
he was fair, and then he went back to him
with fluctuations a year later, and then something happening to
make any others to the best of our knowledge, But yeah,
I don't think Borden didn't finance these I don't. Yeah,
that's that's the case for most of these of these
distributors that were talking about, like distri picks, very rarely
financed those movies. A lot of them were just brought
to them by enterprising filmmakers that had put money into
their own money or investors money into this project and
they wanted to sell it so they get the money
back to get for the investors and make a profit
for themselves. The America Brothers were like that, Yeah, that
was kind of the case. Like you, you took a
chance making these movies independently. You had to hope you
would find a distributor or give you a good deal.
Distributor is very different from from production and producers that existed,
but not not as frequently as one would think.
Speaker 2: Yeah, so In Hot Blood was the first to be released.
Where do we begin with in Hot Blood? Well, let's
look at the release history quick. So tell me more
about these Frank Ken latter sexy shockers, like how much
he was involved. I don't think we've ever talked about
this about them.
Speaker 5: I'm trying to remember because I interviewed him about this
for a paper I did at n YU, specifically about
something weird, and that was I got to interview Mike
and that was great before he passed away. I think
Frank trying to think, I don't remember how Frank got
into something weird fold.
Speaker 4: Oh, Frank got something weird fold because he was at
first a buyer like he was at first one like
look at for he came across the ads sexy Shockers
happened because that was just Mike. Frank did not. Frank
has been quote saying I don't think we sold a
single one based on my name. Mike just wanted to
do it.
Speaker 2: He wanted to put his name.
Speaker 5: But I think he's I think he's.
Speaker 4: Being I mean, I don't know, I don't know, but
that's I think.
Speaker 5: He's being humble because I think as he was, he's
known for like basket case brain damage, Franken Hooker, like,
I think he's known for mixing weird nudity and sex
with violence, and so I think that kind of gives
you an idea of what to expect from the Sexy
Chocker series. They're gonna be sexy movies with like violence
or horror elements in them. And he wrote the liner
notes for all of them. Would was great, and his
line notes are always great because he wasn't gonna like,
he wasn't going to try to sell you some movie
is some great lost work of art. He was going
to tell you it was a piece of shit, but
he was also going to tell you it was crazy
enough to get your attention. Like in Hot Blood is
a good example, he wasn't going to try to tell
you it was some lost horror sex gem. It's just like,
what the fuck is this? Like, you know, I can't
believe people would go see this movie expecting to see
naked ladies and they see this, you know. But also
Frank had a background of going to see these movies.
So yeah, like you said, Alex, like he's buying these
movies because he saw a lot of them when they
were in theaters. So he's kind of the perfect person
you want on board. He was kind of like a
Joe Bob Briggs who was actually a filmmaker, and he
had more of a pedigree in actually going to see
than specifically the New York films when they were showing
at these flee pits on forty second Street. He's like
a genuine forty second Street pete without.
Speaker 4: He's one of the few that has seen things that
we can't see, right Prower girls hous Vampire's less like.
He's one of the very few survivors that yep, and.
Speaker 2: He has a good memory about it from heard him
when I hear.
Speaker 5: Him talking about yeah, yeah, he does. Yeah, all right.
Speaker 2: So it was a Sexy Shocker number of Volume forty
three and then later reissued on the Image DVD Triple Feature,
paired with Ultimate Degenerate and The Lusty Hours Too.
Speaker 4: Far Superior Films, fantastic release.
Speaker 2: I think I think.
Speaker 5: Okay, Lusting Hours is weaker than in Hot Blood.
Speaker 4: But okay, okay, mister, you've really changed since your DVD
driving days. My good man, Like, oh my goodness, I
have I originally bought this release, right, okay?
Speaker 5: Oh, I think all of them are great, And actually
that's my DVD. I can't find it, so now I
have to pay what seventy five bucks to replace it,
buy some use copy for some exorbitant amount. Yeah, yeah,
I think I didn't. I think I raved about it
on my DVD driving with you Build Blood.
Speaker 4: I did not know you did. I remember going to
go going to the video store to pick this DVD up,
going I ultimate degenerate and lustian. I was, are apparently great?
The Hot Blood's going to be a bad time anyone
right back with fluctuations. Oh the guy who put out
that awful Hot Blood is back with fluctuay shots. Oh really?
Speaker 9: Yes?
Speaker 4: Yeah, you were a bit brutal with that one. Yeah.
So when you started changing later on, I was like,
oh crazy, are you okay? Like, what's going on?
Speaker 2: When was that written? Because we know in twenty fifteen,
like we know in twenty fifteen, Casey posted into Something
Weird group saying you should go see In Hot Blood
It's great.
Speaker 4: And I remember reading that and going is he okay?
Speaker 5: So something changed in between driving I'm way back in
machine my review. Let me see. Hold on, what the
fuck did I really do this?
Speaker 4: Maybe not remember, but yeah, I remember fully here.
Speaker 5: This is a quote I wrote. Anyone who says In
Hot Blood is a piece of shit is one hundred
percent right. But it's the best piece of shit you'll
ever see. To sheer bad movie genius. Something really deserves
a shiny, nice metal for unearthing this baby. I don't
know how much longer I could have survived without this
hitting DVD. It says In Blood it is possibly the wildest,
non findly roughy to come out of New York City.
And I can say that without reservation. In barely sixty minutes.
There's enough so nimbalistic acting, tame sex, goofy pot developments,
and bear titties to please a horny grindhouse on. It's
not to mention the completely unexpected violent climax. I don't
know hours.
Speaker 4: Actually, I was too excited about Ultimate Degenerator.
Speaker 5: Yeah No, that was Yeah, that's my favorite Findlay movie
is Ultimate Degenerate. Yeah, so oh.
Speaker 4: Yeah, oh, hands down.
Speaker 6: Yeah, at midnight in some flaming town when Spring trips
north again this year and I to my pledge toward him, true,
I shall not fail that rendezvous.
Speaker 5: But I don't know where we start with this, because
it's like, it is very take me naked, and then
opens with a poem. It's like, oh, art.
Speaker 4: Okay, yeah. It opens as if it might be something
with like the credits burning up on piece of paper.
Speaker 5: And we love credits written on a naked body. Always
love that.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that poem. It's like old World War One poets.
I have a rendezvous with death, and I don't think
it really. I don't know if it really. I guess
it sets up Doris's fall from grace. She's, you know,
she's doomed from the beginning. I guess that's the idea, right.
Speaker 4: I've heard that poem so many times. I swear he
just walked into a bookstore, picked up the first book
and was just like, okay, yeah.
Speaker 5: Probably the bookstore where he found a book written by
a Doris Poro.
Speaker 4: Which fascinating, very obscure dirty books. I was about saying,
that's a fascinating bookstore because those publications up there are
super obscure. Well even for dirty.
Speaker 5: I'm not sick in nineteen sixty eight, so.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I know those ones with the Statue of Liberty,
those are very obscure. So this was an interesting book store.
I've had both of those, I don't know, maybe not
in New York.
Speaker 2: So what we're talking about is the lead in this movie,
Doris Peril. There are some books credited to someone with
that same name. We're not sure if it's her. I
don't think it's her.
Speaker 4: With how enthusiastic unenthusiastic she is, I don't think the
typewriter And really I want to say it, but yeah,
you heard to Yeah, everyone, just go watch the banana
scene and you'll agree with me. Oh my god, Like
Stacy Walker, where are you?
Speaker 10: I know?
Speaker 5: Which? Should we do the plot summary before we even
go further?
Speaker 4: Okay?
Speaker 5: Like would you do the liner notes?
Speaker 2: Yeah? I don't know. Do I want to read that
that huge paragraph?
Speaker 3: A one.
Speaker 6: Thro all right?
Speaker 5: Okay? Okay, so uh something written by Frank kind laughter
of Rita. An ordinary girl with an extraordinary body decides
to put that body to work by becoming a nude model.
This somehow immediately leads to the kind of orgies where
guys are tied up with electrical cords and stepped on
with high heels, while Rita sits on the side foolishly
blowing a banana. But things get really insane when Sandy,
a black model, shoots up Methodrome and starts a fight
with Rita and another gal of Roberta, who has a
deformed thumb never noticed that. Unfortunately Sandy I didn't either. Yeah. Unfortunately,
Sandy gets so belligerent that Rita and Roberta are forced
to bang her head repeatedly on the floor until she
passes out. Then they fleet to Roberta's apartment, where they
can sole each other by rubbing ice on their nipples
and beating each other's butt with a leather belt. All
too soon, however, Sandy awakes, takes a meat cleaver out
of her dainty little handbag and stages an old fashioned
massacre that leaves our three lovely heroines hacked up, bloody,
and dead on Roberta's couch the end. Imagine yourself back
in nineteen sixty eight, hoping to pass an hour ogling
naked girls, and stumbling into a theater showing this.
Speaker 4: Let me just add folks that this little lady's purse
I would kill for what's in my bag video from her,
because there is a full meat cleaver. There is mess
in all the works in it as well too.
Speaker 5: She has all of her junk and the Yeah it's
it's crazy and.
Speaker 4: She's but not a gun. She's tough.
Speaker 5: She will come after the film. Actually, yeah, it's very confused.
Speaker 2: And she can't keep a straight face in the finale
when she's supposed to be like murderous no, which.
Speaker 5: Is you know, that's kind of why I love this,
because it's just nobody is taking this seriously at all.
Like it's just you know, I think Joe Ellen's the
only one who's doing it. Oh yeah, yeah, I think
Joe Ellen's the only one. I think she was a
professional model, so like, I think she's the only one
who kind of is like, this is a real job.
I've done movies before. And then she shows up with
these half assed amateurs.
Speaker 4: She's the one with a short cut, right, she was
one of the short Yeah, she's.
Speaker 5: Like Felicia and girl from Pussycat and yeah, she's fantastic.
I love her, but she disappears pretty quickly.
Speaker 2: She's just in that modeling scene, right.
Speaker 5: She's in that, and then the orgy sequence in.
Speaker 4: The orgy okay, unfortunately, because I don't recognize anyone. I
wonder where he got some of these other people from
his weird underground connections or something like, I don't recognize
that's blonde.
Speaker 5: I definitely the blonde is around because I I checked
her resume and I was like, is this accurate? And
I confirm that it is.
Speaker 4: The Patty McNair look alike.
Speaker 5: Uh no, that yeah, she's great. I don't know who
she was, but no, it's Roberta Ruth Cologne. I'm gonna
say cologne. I think it sounds better than Colon. But
she's the she's the blonde. She has a striptea sequence
in Love Is Where It's At, which is Joe Ellen
is in that, and she has the credits painted on
her body at the beginning, and then she's in a
short called My Cup running over with Judson Todd and
Yolanda Senior Elly, who's also in Love Is Where It's At.
Speaker 4: Very similar soundtracks as well with Love Is Where It's
At in this one too, very Valentino that one.
Speaker 5: Yes, and Love is where It's at Philip Philip Baker
Hall screen debut R I P yeah, yeah, playing Phil
Vaine private detective. Have you seen that? Gentry? Love is
where it's at? Oh, it's good, It's it's pretty good.
I enjoy it.
Speaker 4: Oh, okay, it's fun.
Speaker 5: Larry Larry Hunter is like a killer, like you know,
it's it's fun. It's like a grizzle. It's a film
noir private detective story. It's fun.
Speaker 4: I love Jackie. That's about it. Not gonna lie and
the and the credits and the credit.
Speaker 5: Joe Ellen is good in it. Yolanda Seniorrell is good
in it, like I don't know. It has a fun cast. Yeah,
I mean a person.
Speaker 4: M I'm not as much of a goal on a
person just with Oh.
Speaker 5: Yeah, no, I love her.
Speaker 2: Four stars from Casey for Love is where It's at.
Speaker 5: It was four and a half. I changed it, okay,
but yeah, no, I think it's.
Speaker 2: Some and a typical.
Speaker 6: Just now.
Speaker 4: I don't write most things. I know that's right next
to nothing. What do you mean you have to ask?
You want to know.
Speaker 5: I love the opening of this because you have the
poem and then you have her like walking down the
street petting a cat, which is I guess character development,
and she goes a scary stairway to her modeling session
where this is my fa My favorite sequence on the
whole movie is the modeling session because it's God has
great music from Valentino Major, and basically you know that
Joel was directing off camera and so he was the camera.
The camera tilts, the models changed pose tilts again, models
change pose tilts again. But you know these women are
professional models, so they're making some of the most ridiculous
poses ever for session. So it's it's it's it's unhinged
from the very get go of these of these women
who don't know how to model. A poser look suxy
and they all are for a good time.
Speaker 4: They all look different. They're not interacting with each other.
What is the assignment for? We don't know what this
photo assignment is for, because not of them look exactly
the same.
Speaker 5: They're not. The girl playing Sandy thinks that she can
just have her back to the camera a lot, like
she turns around, has her back to the camera. Like,
that's not how photography works, Honey, you're a model. We
need to see you. So I'm just like I That's
part of why I love this movie is because you
can kind of hear the direction in your head. Yeah,
it's like, okay, rub rub, rub your rub the nipple
on you with the ice keys, and we do this right.
Speaker 4: It's it's it's totally like like, well you can see
them looking up at someone else on occasion too as well.
You could fully see the women look up like I
reclut cutting yet do I have to keep repping? I'm
still rapping? Okay, okay, exactly. This cube is almost melted. Okay,
I know.
Speaker 5: And then you have the narration, which is great, which
I think is Joel because I added that to I
n dB. I'm pretty sure that is Joel.
Speaker 2: Okay. Yeah, I wondered that.
Speaker 5: Very very fay voice, which again lends some credence to
my theory that he might have been gay, very New
York accent. I also love that and uh yeah, very
amateur recorded narration sounds he recorded in like his closet
of his apartment, like a real real.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's interesting he didn't do narration for fluctuations.
Speaker 5: He maybe, but isn't he on the phone calls?
Speaker 2: Is that him on the phone calls.
Speaker 5: I don't know if that's him or not.
Speaker 2: Actually I can't tell, don't think so.
Speaker 4: The voice inflection is not the same. That's the problem.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's not because yes, he has a little lispy, yeah,
lispy voice a little bit.
Speaker 4: And uh yeah he's distinct enough. Yeah, no, I don't
think it's fluctuations.
Speaker 2: We'll get to that, yeah, or maybe we'll just combine.
This whole discussion is about both of them.
Speaker 5: Well, they're so different. I mean in Hot Blood is tolerable, Yeah,
fluctuations is not.
Speaker 2: Okay, So Hot Blood situation has plot beats that go
places I think fluctuations does not.
Speaker 4: Yes, correct, Yeah, fluctuations.
Speaker 5: And it has the worst blood effects ever.
Speaker 4: Oh yeah, yeah, we can't forget the great meat Cleaver massacre.
I got like ten good mats this movie. Hey, i'll
give you that. I'll give it that, a meat clever
massacre in a roughy not gonna lie pretty pleased.
Speaker 2: The editing around it is worse than Milligan, like, way
way worse.
Speaker 4: This film looks like, yeah, he just kind of what
he did. He didn't actually like watch us at speed.
He just kind of held the film up to his
eye and when I guess i'll cut here.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I could see that.
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, I mean half the I mean half the
A third of the time this film is even focus.
Speaker 5: It's takes quite a while for the film to actually
get into focus when you're watching it, Like the full
opening sequel, the whole opening sequence on the street into
the apartment building is out of focus. That what just
goes to Shorty that I think. I don't think Borden
paid a lot to purchase this.
Speaker 4: I don't know, probably not first time too.
Speaker 5: Yeah, no, there's no way Fluctuations is at least in focus.
I'll give it that. Fluctuations is a technical improvement. The
editing is also better. Oh yeah, yeah, nothing else about
it is.
Speaker 4: I mean, I'll say, Fluctuations to me has interesting ideas,
but in a twenty minute movie, not in a sixty
minute movie. It's experience. It's an experimental art house film.
It's not supposed to be taken as a real narrative piece.
Speaker 5: But it makes me think of what Puritan's dream was. Yeah,
oh maybe that maybe Puritsan's dream. Maybe Puritan's dream is
in this movie. Maybe Puritson's dream was cut into this film.
And then he shot stuff around it. I really I
don't know.
Speaker 4: I really do like to think Pearton's Dream had all
that karate.
Speaker 5: Well. Pearson's Dream also based on its description of filmmaker's
co op of the print they had, it was in
black and white and in color. So Joel Landwerd did
shoot something in color for that feature. And God, I
cannot wait. I hope I get to see it at
some point.
Speaker 2: It's near you, it is, it is right here in
New York.
Speaker 5: I need somebody to set it up and screen it
for me in sixteen millimeter?
Speaker 9: What what?
Speaker 3: What? Oh?
Speaker 5: Wait? So are we Doris Poro fans?
Speaker 2: There are fans in the Facebook for them.
Speaker 5: I love because she looks like First of all, she
does have a body that won't quit. I will say
she was cast well. I also like the fact that
this movie has a latina lead and a black woman
in it, which is like very uncommon for this era.
So yeah, she looks like a deer cotton headlights. She
clearly signed up to do a day's work and maybe
got in over her head. But there is something appealing
about her because it really does look like she was
a model, and it really does kind of echo like
her stumbling into this movie by accident and then and
then just wandering out. Well, she dies at the end,
but at the.
Speaker 2: End of the movie with the best death base, where yeah,
she's like really trying hard.
Speaker 5: The base of all three of them, actually, I think,
which is a low bar, but you know.
Speaker 4: Yeah, she's another of my farits, and that she's again
one of these ladies who's just so wonderfully unflustered about
all the debauchery happening around her. Right, she's like, well,
yeah exactly, She's like, well, I mean I'm in New
York now, I guess New Yorkers are just like this,
right exactly.
Speaker 5: It's like, well, I just model. This is what I
have to do, and I have to suck on a
banana and make it look sexy and is this good?
Speaker 3: Look?
Speaker 4: Yeah, this is what the gals vote to do. Like no, no,
this is a standard, like.
Speaker 5: Right, there is something very like charmingly amateur about her,
which I'm just yeah, I don't hate her. There are
worse leading ladies. What's her face from Starlet is way worse.
She's like a charisma vacuum. But no, there's something about her.
Speaker 6: I don't know.
Speaker 5: I don't know yeah, I don't make an impression in
this film, Joe Ellen, I think is misused. I guess
the segue she's in fluctuations. She is the first person
we see she is. She's reading The Voyeur at the beginning.
She's the only cast member in both movies. Joe Ellen's
the woman and reading The Voyeur.
Speaker 2: Oh Joe Ellen, Yes, sorry, I thought you med ye yes,
And like you said, there is that connection of like
dirty books. I mean The Voyeur and his follow up,
The Exhibitionists. They're not like dirty dirty books. They're not
like these books.
Speaker 5: That and interesting connection. So an article I found where
Joel went to was at some high society affair with
this actress Sarah Smithers, and they're described as he's producing
a movie called Venus and Adonis and she's the star, which,
as far as I know, the movie never happened. But
Sarah Smithers is the model on the back of that book.
She posed semi nude for the cover of that book.
So it's kind of like an inside joke of like,
this is this is the actress that I was working with,
and now she's technically in my movie because she's on
this book. So so I did find that very interesting.
When I found that connection, I was like, oh, wait,
this is the book that Gentry put in the show notes. Yeah,
that's very strange. Interesting.
Speaker 2: Yeah, because I remember when I first watched the movie,
I immediately was like, oh, I kind of want to
read this and see if there's some connection with the film.
And there kind of is, I mean art wise, but
I think the content is there. It's not directly connected
in any way.
Speaker 5: No, it's not.
Speaker 2: But yeah, that is funny that the actress that he
wanted to cast in his other movie is on the
book that she's reading in his movie later. Yeah, that's funny.
Speaker 5: Yes, And she was arrested getting photographed for the cover of.
Speaker 2: That No, she was arrested in publicity.
Speaker 5: Photo shoot promoting the book and she was arrested. Yeah.
Interesting girl. Yeah, hopefully she gets back with me because
I'd love to know more about this.
Speaker 2: Allright, sending your book club, let's read the together, Alex interested. Sure.
Speaker 5: Sure, it's not a bad idea. It's pretty long a
book club. I think we should be able to have
a book club.
Speaker 4: It's not like you guys don't know what we're getting
in for. Prepare yourselves.
Speaker 5: Oh, you've read it.
Speaker 4: No, No, I just mean this book.
Speaker 5: Oh yeah, well that's true.
Speaker 4: Careful shitty.
Speaker 2: You're right, you want to again.
Speaker 8: On you. It's not a pure drop on yesterday change.
Speaker 6: I know what that.
Speaker 8: Nothing is a purely I only eat the Sign of Town.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I believe that.
Speaker 5: The liner notes that I couldn't paste are rie.
Speaker 6: Uh.
Speaker 5: And there's something we catalog there by Mike Akamanda, who
was Dreadful Pleasures. Aither of you guys remember Dreadful Pleasures?
Speaker 4: They ring such a bell.
Speaker 5: It was a really good fanzine that Mike put out
several issues, and it was like him reviewing movies. He
had the best collection of newspaper ad mats and things
for like all sorts of exploitation, exploitation stuff, so gorgeously
photographed zine. I think he was based in New Jersey.
I haven't thought about Mike and years. I hope he's
doing well. But yeah, he did a lot of liners
for for something weird, like John Harrison did a lot,
and there's a bunch of other people who are still around.
He did too. But I don't know if we want
to read these liners. They're long.
Speaker 2: Yeah, so fluctuations.
Speaker 5: It tries to sum it up in this liner notes,
but it's like, I don't know how I typed all that.
Speaker 4: I mean, the bare idea of fluctuations is that it's
people reading a book, erotic fantasies from a book, and
reality and fantasy begin to blend with each other. As
the film progresses, people reading the book go into like
characters from the book suddenly start like walking out into
the living rooms of like the person reading it, or
suddenly someone like shall we say, reading the book that
seems to have karate as somehow actually fighting the karate
guys later on and winning. Meanwhile, also there is a
continuous dialogue between a couple saying the most vulgar things
to each other while some other types of vulgar things
happen on camera. I'm talking about the I'm talking about
the wound fingering and awful things like that. It's just
weird stuff happening, folks. That's it an interesting.
Speaker 5: Way, in my opinion.
Speaker 4: All drags out so long.
Speaker 5: It's so boring. It's interesting interesting when stuff is happening
on the phone call, and then just when it becomes
NonStop moaning, it's so monotonous and it's.
Speaker 4: Just like, can we can we hear them?
Speaker 5: Can we hear them talking again? Because like the conversation
I think is interesting because it's just a pervert talking
to like either a sexphone operator or a girlfriend or
something about what she will or won't do sexually. And
that's interesting because it sounds like an actual genuine phone
call that he recorded secretly and maybe the girl didn't know,
you know, or he had a friend of his recorded
or something. That's fascinating to me. But then it goes away.
It just becomes the moaning over the loops.
Speaker 2: It's a loop too anyway.
Speaker 5: Yes, yeah, it's so monotonous.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's so strange.
Speaker 5: Yeah, the karate makes no sense. It has a karate consultant,
and I can't find that guy. I don't even know
if I don't know what the fuck that was, So
I don't think that not a clue exactly.
Speaker 4: Yeah, it has like brief interesting ideas it does nothing
with for the most part.
Speaker 5: But that's the thing. I don't know if there were
actual ideas. I just feel like, if you know what,
it feels like, it feels like he had like a
checklist and he was like okay, check, okay, check okay. Check,
and that was it. There's nothing else at least in
how Blood has like a narrative, even if it's like
a plot written on like a napkin at a diner
before they started shooting fluctuations. Doesn't even feel like experimental
films are like underground films. I feel like our filmmakers
that are trying to do something with film, or at
least trying to like play around with the medium. I
don't think that's even him doing that. There's one really
good editing moment with like the still photographs, and then
it like fades out and fades in, like there's an
interesting editing there, but then it's like it doesn't come back.
So it doesn't even work as like an experimental movie
because there's nothing he's experimenting with. It's just your typical bullshit.
It's like it's like a Jack Rabin movie with like
a little more a little more technical finesse. Yeah, but
that's yeah. If Jack Rabman makes a better makes a
more interesting movie than you, you got a problem. It's
not good. That's not good.
Speaker 2: That's really close ups I think are nice where he
intercuts a couple of close ups of like characters I
don't know. It feels semi professional in that, you know,
the camera is actually doing a few interesting things. It's
not like stuck in one place.
Speaker 4: But it's enough to make me very curious about what
this third mystery film is.
Speaker 5: I know me too.
Speaker 4: These you can bind. It's just enough to make me wonder, Oh,
did both like kind of blend well for a third
film that we never saw, you know, to we get
a really great swung song and we'll never know.
Speaker 5: Well, that's why I wonder if Pearson's Dream is in fluctuations,
because it feels like something that could have been edited
already pre edited into this film, and it is like,
it feels like something that could be dream like or
have like a dream narrative, or it's just the kind
of way or maybe the maybe the punchline of like
the title Puritan's Dream is just like a long sex
scene and that's the punchline. So I don't know. Yeah, no,
very tantalizing.
Speaker 8: Well, the only reason where Chilling have a Big trick
really turned to me on would I feel about it?
Speaker 4: Me?
Speaker 8: You know, the person that broke me doesn't matter anymore?
Before he started to twist his leg, you don't so
you don't need a space or a name or a personality.
The only thing you do have the prick's what I like.
Speaker 2: Yeah, well I go.
Speaker 6: Wrong with the rest of it.
Speaker 2: So this played on a double billing with Come On, Baby,
Light My Fire. That would have been a trip.
Speaker 5: That was the earliest one very into sixty nine that
I could find, which that's such a better that's really crazy.
Speaker 4: Yes, I mean the ions need something after fluctuation, so
thank god.
Speaker 2: Yes, we don't know what order they played though.
Speaker 4: That's true. It depends when he walked in.
Speaker 5: Abandoning the theater after. It's just like they wouldn't hang
out after that movie. They could have walked out that
flipped those I think, yeah.
Speaker 4: Yeah, it depends when the person actually walked in.
Speaker 2: The tagline is a sexplosive symphony, and I'm like, that
is not accurate. There's no symphonic orchestral nature to this movie.
It's just especially with that looping background track. I don't
know what who came up with that idea.
Speaker 5: I think that's probably what they're referencing is because the
audio never stops, so that's probably what they're referencing. And
that as far as audio, you're there's always gonna be
something going. But that's not As we learn from Sarno,
sometimes you can work with silence and it works great.
Sometimes you don't mean a cacophony of sounds over the
entire soundtrack. I mean it's over comped.
Speaker 2: I think this probably could have helped if there was
a little bit more silence in this.
Speaker 4: Actually, also just was a good time nineteen sixty nine
in black and white too well.
Speaker 5: I mean, Jennifer, Jennifer was black and white, Marine was
black and whine. Ultimately Jennifer's black and white, like American
film distributing was doing almost exclusively black and white, they
were not they were not upgrading to color. So I
think it's because I think that was Stan's money, money
saving thing. I think it was cheaper to print negatives
and prints in black and white than it was in color.
So yes, if you if you actually, if you look
at the catalog, there isn't a lot of color in
that catalog. After a certain point, it's like primitive love
is color serving wives of color.
Speaker 4: Sun swept his color, and at the very end he
almost tries to start a little bit with things like
Una and then there's this weird mysterious film I've got
called fly Me, which I know is in color because
i've seen aims from the trailer and Monosa Deca though
that was earlier. That wasna sound the shelf a bit.
Speaker 5: Oh that was sixteen seventy, wasn't it.
Speaker 4: I thought I shot earlier sixteen millimere color because some
releases in that she leaves New York by sixty eight. Yeah,
that's interesting. You know it was a because then it
was later inserted. I've got nothing on fly Me. I
have no idea. I need to look for some ads
or something like that, because fly Me has got nothing.
It's just the poster art and then some mats.
Speaker 5: It's not like Flying Acquaintances, is it? Because that's seventy
three in that softcore. I wonder if there's a relation.
I'm not sure.
Speaker 2: I'm not sure that it's terrible, but well, it's funny
because genre Lan put out a movie in seventy four
and it was retitled in America fly Me the French Way,
and it even got a something weird video release. It
even got to take all the sexual Yeah. Yeah, so
I wonder if it's a riff on. That title is
a riff on that earlier fly Me.
Speaker 5: I don't know that seems oh you mean fly Me
the French way. It could have been well because Blyme
was a New World movie that came out seventy three.
Speaker 4: So yeah, that's what it's like. It's even hard to
find out about this movie because that one always comes
up to. It's very hard to find thing about this
fly Me. I wish I got the trailer I had yea.
Speaker 2: That airline stewardess movie or whatever it is.
Speaker 5: Yeah, yeah, which is It's fair. I have a soft
spot for it, but a lot of people don't like it.
Lilo Terrena ed to Priest's wife one of those stewardess.
Speaker 4: Isn't that?
Speaker 2: Yep, you're right. Anyways, I was going to talk about.
So yeah, fluctuations did not get a hand in lot
or Sexy Shocker release because there's not really anything shock.
Speaker 5: You know, it came out as a twisted sex cinema series,
which is probably more accurate. Those are the two best series,
honestly in the Something Weird are the sexy Shockers and
the twists the sex because the twisted sex are almost
all New York black and white, really insane shit.
Speaker 2: So Alex Alex's Bread and Butter.
Speaker 4: Yeah, of course, yeah, yes.
Speaker 5: I think there's only a few exceptions, like the Walls
Have Eyes as Florida, and then there's like a few
other I think help Wanted Females, Twisted sext them and
that's California. But most of them are down and dirty, grungy,
black and white New York films.
Speaker 2: Like Fine Later with Vibrations and Submission on that triple feature.
Speaker 5: Yeah, Submission was Twisted Sex. Yeah.
Speaker 4: Such a roller coaster of a triple bill, Yeah.
Speaker 5: Yeah, because I feel if you're watching them in order,
because it goes Vibrations, Fluctuation, Submission, that's a really rough
roller coaster because you're starting with the best and then
you're going down into the swamp and they're coming back
up to Submission, which is almost as.
Speaker 2: It's a fun triple bill for sure, and I love it.
It's all like the singular word titles. No, I know
it is.
Speaker 5: I think two of those films are great. Fluctuations is like,
what the fuck is this doing here? It's added value,
I guess, But then that that means that release has
no trailers on it because there's no room for anything else.
Speaker 4: So yeah, oh really, because some of them do and
some of them don't as well.
Speaker 5: Exactly, I think. And also the deleted scenes of Submission
are on the I think too.
Speaker 4: I think that matters more than trailers to have some
space on because the Ultimate Degenerate release does have trailers
but nothing else.
Speaker 5: Yeah, that's right, it does.
Speaker 4: You're gonna put on You've got really cool outtakes or
as trailers, so you can stick somewhere else.
Speaker 1: Well.
Speaker 5: Also, Vibrations didn't have a Sarno commentary, which I really wanted.
Speaker 4: The commentaries were kind of done by that time.
Speaker 5: I know, anyway, tell me about tell me about it.
I was reviewing all this shit and saying, where's the commentary?
Speaker 4: That's about saying I think Sarno would have really remembered
all about Vibrations. That was just such a tiny little
Morse Caplan thing.
Speaker 5: Well, then we could have heard all about Morse Caplin,
couldn't we? And Peggy's in it. We could have gotten
an identifier possibly for knockers McCall up got some realase stories.
Speaker 4: I mean, that's still possible.
Speaker 5: Well, my release I have to call, but I don't know.
Speaker 2: Well, so Vibrations yet has gotten released, but Submission that
doesn't happen.
Speaker 5: Sorry, it doesn't have submission. No it doesn't so good.
Speaker 2: Yeah for release, yeah for sure.
Speaker 5: No, it's so good. Fluctuations can rot. But I like submission.
I really want a nice high death upgrade. Please. Yeah,
I love submission.
Speaker 4: Yes, anyone who hasn't yet, this is your keye to
go check out submission.
Speaker 2: It's so good. We're having a little mini Jennifer Wells
revival lately, so let's get it out there. Oh yeah, I.
Speaker 4: Guess, yeah, I mean we just got Career Bad. Oh yeah,
we got Inside Jennifer Wells right.
Speaker 5: Which I feel like that would have been the perfect
time to put out Blonde Velvet and Temptations, which are
also districts. I don't know why those want put out,
but what do I know.
Speaker 2: I'll talk to your boy.
Speaker 5: Actually, well, this got actually yeah, they got another big,
big X rated library that they're going to be doing
major stuff with, which yes, it's great, but also means
they're going to be bumping a lot more stuff off
the calendar.
Speaker 2: Talking about the Mitchell No Brothers, No.
Speaker 5: They got another one.
Speaker 4: Oh, we'll talk later.
Speaker 5: That'll be announced. Well, it'll be announced in January, I believe.
Speaker 4: Oh, a lot good announcements in January. Jesus, I know, yeah.
Speaker 2: Back to fluctuations. I didn't want to mention again this
kind of queer subtext going on here with Joel. This
one definitely feels a lot more gazy with regard to
like our male back ends and just how the camera
is situated in full frontally. Yeah, yeah, okay, we're all
in agreement. Stir all right, Yeah, I know.
Speaker 4: I was wondering about that too. I just didn't really
have anything. I was just like, oh, Joel thought a
bit about his men and things, okay, right, well.
Speaker 5: It's all like twinkie dudes. The one guy, well, actually,
the one guy looks very young, the guy that's the
full frontal in the shower, and.
Speaker 2: I think he's supposed to because I think that's the
angle of that scene, is like he's with the older woman.
She's supposed to be oh yeah, like true much older,
and he's the young boy. Yeah.
Speaker 5: Interesting.
Speaker 2: I did not understand, like the kidnapping that happens in
this movie, I don't know how that related to anything.
Speaker 5: No, there's no narrative to this.
Speaker 4: How does anything happen to this movie? What do you mean?
How does anything happen.
Speaker 5: Sometimes she'll reading the book. It's like this ship, this
is supposed to be in the book. Is there are
the karate guys next door to her while she's reading
or are they in the book? Is the phone is
the phone call in her memory or is a part
of the book. Who knows? I don't think.
Speaker 4: Also, also, there's two different women reading books too, so
we can't even tell there's not just one woman reading
the book. Guys, there's two.
Speaker 5: Yeah, a second book a history of orgies, and there's
only one. There's what one orgy that we go back
to over and over.
Speaker 4: You just look like a threesome too. It's technically like.
Speaker 5: Yeah, which I guess is an orgy in the books
in the book, it's it's just like, yeah, I think
it's a waste of time to put too much thought
into this, because nobody else put this much thought into it.
Speaker 2: The orgy is a boy, a boy and a girl.
So it's like, you know, Joel had his choice, give
me two guys anyway, Golden Shower, that's a pretty big deal. Huh.
Speaker 5: That's true. Yes, that is true. But I don't know.
At this point, we've seen so much crazy shit in
like the Findley movies, So it feels similar to that.
I mean, at this point, we're like, this is the
tail end of the Ruffies before we we go off
into hardcore. So I feel like every there's nothing that's
off limits at this point except for actual hardcore.
Speaker 2: Right, Yeah, it does feel like that, yeah, for sure.
Speaker 5: And the only other cast member that I recognized and
I was happy to see is Kim Lewid. Most people
know his baby from A Thousand Pleasures, but she's in
so much of this stuff. Sort of a very gangly
blonde with an overbite, kind of kind of like Roberta
actually a little bit.
Speaker 2: Her face definitely looks like Roberta when she's when she's
holding that globe. Yeah, she's like holding that globe when
you see just like half of her face, the bottom half, Yeah,
it looks like Roberta.
Speaker 5: Yeah. So she's in a lot of this stuff. It's
like and that she was very tail end, so she
was like it was like her Susan Landau, Linda Boyce,
Uda Erickson, that was all around the same era, but
except Kim was in a lot of like the most
low rent stuff. I feel like she's I feel like
she would do Yeah, she would take the lowest paying
jobs because she's just was like whatever. I feel like
she had a lower threshold for gigs than the rest
of the girls in New York at that time because
she shows up in really terrible stuff.
Speaker 4: That's the thing. I know, because I love seeing her,
But the movie, she's mostly in Ultimate Voight, your Ultimate
so forth. Yeah, besides the friendly stuff, I can't think
of another one that I'm like, Oh, that's the only
thing I liked about this movie is Oh, there's Kim
in that lovely dress. Oh at least she's on screen,
right that stay on screen, Kim, please stay on screen, please?
Speaker 5: Right? Exactly. Well, like I gave this one star and
half the stars for the phone calls. The other half
is for Kim, and that's it.
Speaker 4: That's fair.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think the phone calls are Yeah, like you said,
the phone calls are interesting because there is no filter
at all. It does seem like they're just talking off
the cuff, like they weren't given direction.
Speaker 5: Yeah, it feels like, well, it feels genuine. It doesn't
feel like it doesn't feel like it was scripted or
an act. It feels like it's an actual phone call.
Like and it might very well be. I don't. I
don't think this was scripted.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it does weird.
Speaker 5: Nobody's nobody in these movies is acting well enough to
make it sound that convinsing. Like when she when she
gets a little testy with him, that's, I don't that's
not acting like you know, when he's saying to like
you put your cigarette, you put my cigarette in your ass,
and he's like, no, I didn't. Like, this is an
actual conversation with these people. This is not This is
not a script or improv. They also can't improv well,
so like this is a I believe it's a genuine
phone call.
Speaker 2: It might be well, And it's interesting. I kind of
browse those books that John sent us, you know, the
doors Poral books, and you know that language is in
those books as well. That just like super dirty language.
Speaker 4: That's how they were gay at that time as well too.
The second the second, when they thought they could get
away with it, they went the pendulum violently swung. Yeah, yep,
So that everything in those things is every other word
is a four letter word. It's it's like it's it's
like a kid finally like being able to like talk
and just going for it. The books you read like
single it's like, yeah, that's all it.
Speaker 5: Is, because I have I have a time of them,
and I'm just like, god, this is terrible. I must
you have to be like a real dyed in the
world degenerate to get off on because it's like there
is nothing going on and it's except like real bottom
of the barrel.
Speaker 4: Filthy, really gross.
Speaker 5: But then it actually it becomes kind of boring after
a while. It's like, okay, if there's no nuance or
anything going on, yeah, it's just kind of like, Okay,
this is it. Yeah, it's it's very much like the
non stop moaning on this outstrag. I'm like, okay, this
is it. Okay, great.
Speaker 2: I mean, I think that is the way to look
at it, is like he's he's he is trying to
put he is trying to make these books come to
life on the screen in a way. And with all
their films that do, that's so much better.
Speaker 5: Who really do feel like one of these books come
to life? We talked about a few of them. This
is not one of them. Yea, even like Hot A Dreams,
I think does that better? And it's set it around
a book store, so that feels like Mure. Yeah, and
that kind of tackles this thing much better, where it
is centered around the erotic bookstore and like reading the
books that are there, and you know, it inspires, you know,
fantasies that are then filmed, and they don't they don't
drag on that much. It's not a great movie, but
I think it is a better encapsulation of like the
dirty books that were being made around that time.
Speaker 8: I'll be cool to you any day, Suck.
Speaker 10: That's true.
Speaker 8: You don't know how to stuck like I do.
Speaker 6: She's got the tongue of tongue.
Speaker 8: Oh, we've had ton of the triple mixed mine anything.
Speaker 2: Yeah. I remember when we first started this podcast, we
were like, well, event sure we have to do fluctuations
just so that we can clip some of that audio so.
Speaker 5: It eventually we do.
Speaker 4: Okay, yeah, I know, what do you mean, Dission?
Speaker 5: Maybe maybe this is just me this for the record,
this was not a discussion. I never would have done fluctuations. Well,
you know what, The only way it makes sense is
if you're doing it combined with in Hot Blood, which
I definitely wanted to talk about because I want to
talk about Joel and it's one of my big guilty pleasures.
The fluctuations doesn't work if you're not considering it as
part of a two for that this one guy did.
It doesn't work on its own at all.
Speaker 2: Yeah, but I think it does fit into the broader
picture of understanding Joel. So it's worth talking about for sure.
Speaker 5: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, that's fluctuations and in Hot Blood. Yeah, any
last thoughts.
Speaker 5: No, I like In Hot Blood. But I love the
narration of In Hot Blood. And also the you know,
major soundtrack is good.
Speaker 2: That's good.
Speaker 4: Oh yeah, so many great recognized tracks.
Speaker 5: Yeah, like I can put It's a movie I can
put on in the background, which I enjoy because the
soundtrack is so good. Yeah, I don't know. I wish
I could recognize some more of the locations, and they're
not Blood. That's another reason fluctuations sucks. It's got In
Hot Blood. We at least get some really good New
York street locations. We get Doris Poro and Ruth Cologne
running down the street, or you've identified like that shag thing.
No I was trying. Oh no, wait, yes, West sixty
seven Street. It's the Upper West Side, which is very unusual.
But ye, fluctuations is all taken place in like two apartments.
Speaker 2: It's probably his apartments.
Speaker 4: I mean, I mean I want to know who. There's
two big ones. There's the big living room and then
there's the modern one where the ballet long hair dancer
lady with all the books behind.
Speaker 5: It, which is different.
Speaker 4: Right, there's some interesting locales. I'm like, who did you know?
Who were you hanging out with? That's why we care
more about who were you hanging out with?
Speaker 5: Right?
Speaker 4: Exactly exactly who.
Speaker 5: Was hanging out with ultra Violet and the daughter of
a British diplomat who was arrested for indecent exposure.
Speaker 4: Like I want to know he was the one there
places like yeah, I just wanted yeah.
Speaker 5: And also like his brother was was successful, was successful
in the world of like journalism and writing and stuff.
So who knows who was hob nobbing with with his
brother in like the New York literary world. Who knows?
You know that's true? Yeah, yeah, So it just just
begs so many questions.
Speaker 2: Unfortunately, I do get the feeling that he was like
a you know, a literate guy, and he had certain
artsy aspirations and this was his way to get his
foot in the door. Who knows what he would have
done after. Yeah, it's too bad we never got anything else,
because I mean, maybe he would have made it out
of exploitation. Are there anybody was.
Speaker 5: Out of his exploitation he got he made his way
into exploitation to make money. Yeah, I believe Puritan's dreams
from about all accounts from what I've seen, not a
s exploitation movie. He was already making artsy underground movies
and then stumbled into sex movies because he can make
them cheap and make a profit. And maybe that money
was going to go into doing the artsy films, which
I haven't found any evidence of, So yeah, it's interesting.
It's kind of like an expense Curly where Spence Curly
wildly successful at industrial films documentaries and then decides to
slum doing satur nine productions and then while he is,
which are shot for nothing, just to make a little
extra cash. So yeah, it's interesting. It really does feel
like slumming.
Speaker 2: Really a bit.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 2: I do like the ad mats for fluctuations though.
Speaker 4: Yeah, that's very strong, that middle finger on Kim's mouth.
That's a strong thing to put on your ads. Once again,
Stan being a bit more ballsy. Because I can see
that gain censored quite a bit.
Speaker 5: I wondered about him. I don't know, if you know,
like Lorraine came from a background of like advertising design
and stuff. I wonder how I wonder if she was
all involved with any of the ad campaigns and designs
for any of those films near the tail end. I
really I don't have any idea because I don't know
when they met. I just know they married in seventy one.
I don't know if she was with him well before then.
Speaker 4: That's a curious thing because I think i'd have to
go back to it. It's not the later edition. I
think the first edition of the Ghastly One mentioned her
saying having something to do with the campaigns, but then
the lace edition does is oh have that? I think
that's where I read it with her maybe possibly possibly
or for that because yeah, but I don't know, because
because Bill interacted with them.
Speaker 5: Yeah, Bill Landis interviewed Stan and it's a terrible interview.
It's all one word answers, and because he's not he's
not a good interviewer. So yeah, that interview was total
waste of time. If you haven't if people haven't read it,
don't go out of your way to try to read it.
It's really a massive disappointment. And yeah, yeah, I think
it's like a page and a half and it's mostly
one word answers. I'm just like, God, this, this is
what happens when you have this crazy maniac interviewing people.
And Laton too and interviewed Abba Layton too before she died,
And I'm like, that's the Alba Layton interview that we
have to deal with. Nobody else interviewed this very important
woman behind Bradley Metzger's films. That's crazy to me. So yeah,
I guess we have lands to thank quote unquote for
speaking to them in some way.
Speaker 4: Yeah, unfortunately.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm looking at more of these ad MAT's, like
the fluctuations. Even though like font on it it just
looks nice. I don't know something about it. It stands out.
Speaker 4: I'd love to know who did the campaigns because they're
all very consistent. They're all mostly the same. They were
using the same people normally, the same layout.
Speaker 5: You see a lot you see this particular font on
a lot of their stuff. I don't know what that
font is, but you see in a lot of their
later period stuff.
Speaker 4: Yeah, a bunch of obviously hand drawn, but there was
a little resource that's not sad.
Speaker 2: And even paired with career bed at once at Detroit
Double Bill, So there's another Jennifer Wihell's connection. That's fun.
Speaker 5: It's always on the top half of the bill, that's crazy.
Speaker 4: Yeah, all I want to know is what on earth
was playing with it at the Capri in Detroit. Booing booing?
Speaker 5: I bang, your is booing booing? Is that Dean Martin? No,
it's not Dean Martin, it's Tony.
Speaker 4: What am I thinking? This is hot?
Speaker 5: Booing? Booing? Is no booing? No, I'm sorry, I think
booing booing is Isn't it boing boing? Isn't it? The
Lewis at the bottom half, possibly, which is crazy at
that point.
Speaker 2: Wait the new dy QD boying.
Speaker 4: Yeah, okay, that's the only thing. These things just kept
They kept shoving them back out. That's how it works.
Speaker 5: It's color, even if it's old. It's color. Build with
a black and white movie, so at least you're getting
some color even if it's old on the second half.
But yeah, I thought that was interesting because yeah, looking
at that, you can see that it's showing at two
theaters in Detroit. You know, there's only one print in
that town, So that print has to go back and
forth between these two theaters of In Hot Blood.
Speaker 2: Somehow in another lifetime. That was job.
Speaker 4: I had to drive that for one to another. That's
how it works. Yeah, so some little yeah, take a taker, Hey,
can you go drive this print to the next town.
They need it for next week.
Speaker 5: But it's interesting because look at this. So yeah, so
I guess for anyone, for listener's sake, I did like
a timeline of the release of In Hot Blood across
the nation. The earliest release I found was April twenty
sixth in Richmond, Virginia, and it didn't release until New
York until like two weeks later. So it didn't even
premiere in New York. I think it premiered in Richmond,
so and then it premiered in San Francisco. It never
premiered in LA I don't think, and then it jumped
all over the place. Then it also plays in certain theaters,
but then it plays in certain theaters package with chain girls,
in multiple different locations. So that's like that's probably Stan
or whoever his regional distributor was creating that package of
two stand films and then being able to get that
booked by different people and wherever his territory was.
Speaker 4: I was just also about to say for those of
you out there who are like wondering also how some
of these things could be like connected with something like
career bed. It could just be the same sub distributor,
like let's not forget as well, like too sub distributor
handled multiple different like national distributors as product. So it
might be strange for like the outlier to look at
that ad for it, I don't know it Lane in
ar Kansas or somewhere with another film. But you have
to remember that sub distributors dealt with multiple main distributors
as product at a time.
Speaker 5: Well, and this is another case. So like in Hot
Blood double feature with Another Day, Another Man, which is
two years old at that point, it played double feature
with those two in Richmond. Those that double feature played
in Richmond, Rochester and Knoxville, three very different territories, double
featured with those those two movies paired together in those
different territories. But that's probably that's either sand packaging them
to those that region, or it's one one regional distributor handling.
Speaker 4: All of those exactly.
Speaker 5: Yeah, probably not Rochester, but possibly Richmond. Probably possibly Virginia
and Tennessee together though, mm hmm. But yeah, So it's
just it's interesting to see the history movie the place. Yeah,
it jumps all over the place. It's not it's not
a situation where like if you think a movie is
opening in one place, like if it opens in New
York and then you think of it, Okay, it's gonna
move west gradually, but that's not what happened. It'll open
in Richmond first, and then New York and then I'll
pass so and then Miami and then yeah, all over
the place. There is no.
Speaker 4: Yeah, it can also too. Yeah, well sounds it could
just be a weird scheduling thing, like I can imagine
like you had to wait like two weeks for the
cameo for another feature to leave, because that happens sometimes,
like Stan was dealing with a lot of different product
so things just kind of get staggered because there's only
so many people, like, hold on a second, I need
to deal with your past film first, yeah, right before
this show comes on.
Speaker 5: Right. So it's it's just interesting to see.
Speaker 2: Yeah, how many prints is he striking of something like
in Hot Blood none or less? Probably you're dealing with many. Yeah,
you have to move around.
Speaker 5: Yeah that too. Yeah, so you have these print exchanges
that are trying when when it's done that needs to
be shipped out immediately to the next territory.
Speaker 4: Mm hmm.
Speaker 5: Yeah. But it's just interesting to see what Also, some
of them are double filled and some of them open,
some of them open, Like Hot Blood doesn't necessarily always
open at the top of a double bill. It could
open new at the bottom of a double bill because
it's not considered hot enough or good enough, Like it
premiered in Atlantic City, New Jersey, at the bottom half
of double bill with Olgast Dancehall Girls. That was the
top half of the bill, and that was the premiere
Ougust Dancehall Girls had more legs because it was Olga
regardless of it was Audrey Campbell. So yeah, it's interesting.
I mean, that's that's something that's more interesting than the
actual movie. So like Fluctuations, the history of that distribution.
And then it was also I kept finding ad mats
for like Fluctuation without the s and I was like, well,
what was inappropriate about the fluctuation, what was what was
inappropriate about the plural of fluctuation? Why didn't why does not.
Speaker 6: Have the s?
Speaker 5: It's very strange. Yeah, but then you found ad mats
were in wild Blood.
Speaker 4: Right, Yeah, because yeah, when it showed at the Cameo
Standard two weeks, Sanborne stuff normally premiered at the Cameo
or the Tivoli Standard two weeks, which is Chllie Wilson's
normal thing. It was released, it was shown because NY
Daily News is one of those papers that was a
lot pickier than say Village Voice or something. So we're
trying to look for these films in a paper like
NY Daily News, which always censored it. This was the
ads for this was in wild Blood. It's kind of
a nightmare if you're trying to look for the title.
So I say it also researchers is try and look
for the tagline anything goes in the world of Models
and things like that or something or something like that,
because these were always.
Speaker 5: Because this was a world of exotic I'm sure if
you look for a world of exotic models, you'd probably
find it.
Speaker 4: Yeah, exotic models. You could probably come up with like
a couple things like that, but yeah, standard two weeks.
Shelley Wilson apparently only played paid fifteen hundred flat rental
for those two weeks. Normally.
Speaker 2: That's about it, all right, Joel, Well, we will stay
tuned to see what who gets back to you, if
anybody casey.
Speaker 5: I know, I'm hopefully for some more get some sleep
elements in the Joel story. I know it's I mean,
it really is bothering me, just because even the family
of it all, like even even the fact that it's
not mentioned, and like the family his surviving family's obituar,
He's just like, Wow, he really was just erased completely.
Speaker 4: But it also says a lot that his brother care
enough to keep on hanging on to that negative exactly
because what you're going to do with the negative you
can't even watch it exactly.
Speaker 5: And all that all that ship was one lot of
all of Joel's stuff, just in one collection. And I
want to know who bought it because I want to
know who I need to harass to get it, because yeah,
it has to be somebody who knew what it was.
Speaker 2: Did you find that auction listing that you were looking for?
Speaker 5: No, I emailed them and asked for it because it's
off line. So I emailed them and if they don't
get back with him, want to call him and be like,
I need to know this info piece.
Speaker 4: Yeah, come on, this man does not need this negat
of what's he doing? But come on. It was even
on one of the regular auction sites that like sells
paper and stuff. It was random auction site.
Speaker 5: Yeah, with Duncan's auction in Central Florida.
Speaker 4: Yeah, what film's never seen a show up over there? Huh?
Speaker 2: All right, we'll stay tuned on that. Yeah. Maybe the
saga of Joel is not over yet. We will see,
hope not. Thanks for coming on with us, Alex, helping
us out with Stanbardon and talking through too exciting films.
Speaker 4: And no time, gentlemen, and time I can't wait to
forget about? Please what?
Speaker 3: Well, very well, quite proper about what?
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