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<v Speaker 1>Hey, folks, we're recording at Chainlinks smart Con event and

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<v Speaker 1>joining me is Will Peck, who is the head of

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<v Speaker 1>Digital Assets at wisdom Tree. Well, great to.

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<v Speaker 2>Have you, Great to be with you, Tony.

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<v Speaker 1>Well we met, we were talking before the recordings at

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<v Speaker 1>the ONDO event, and crypto seems to be booming. You know,

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<v Speaker 1>what are your thoughts on how this market has grown?

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<v Speaker 1>The industry has grown?

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I mean it's great.

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<v Speaker 3>It's also it's interesting you mentioned the ONDO event smart Con,

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<v Speaker 3>which is you know, about much more than just like

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<v Speaker 3>crypto exposures on blockchains. Right, it's about using blockchains as

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<v Speaker 3>kind of infrastructure for financial services.

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<v Speaker 1>Right.

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<v Speaker 3>Crypto is infrastructure. Blockchain is infrastructure for more and more

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<v Speaker 3>real world finance. You know, maybe real world is not

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<v Speaker 3>like the perfect term, but like that's exactly what we're

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<v Speaker 3>seeing more and more of.

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<v Speaker 2>That's what wisdom Tree is focused on.

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<v Speaker 3>So feels like a lot of energy you know, at

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<v Speaker 3>these conferences in New York around that topic generally.

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<v Speaker 1>And then you have a lot of trad fy now

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<v Speaker 1>looking to build with blockchain rails. They're launching et as,

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<v Speaker 1>they are tokenizing, they're launching stable coins. What are your

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<v Speaker 1>thoughts on how TRADFI has kind of taken over cryptow.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah, absolutely, so, I mean my role, I'm head of

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<v Speaker 3>Digital Assets at Wisdom Tree. So Wisdom Trees a global

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<v Speaker 3>asset manager ETF sponsor. We manage north of one hundred

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<v Speaker 3>and forty billion dollars globally today and the division I

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<v Speaker 3>head up is focused on tokenization and stable coins, stable

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<v Speaker 3>corn orchestration, and we manage about almost seven hundred million

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<v Speaker 3>dollars I think six hundred and eighty million dollars in

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<v Speaker 3>tokenized products. Our largest product is a tokenized money market

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<v Speaker 3>fund wtgxx that's available on seven public blockchains, which really

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<v Speaker 3>the use case is like providing a stable, yield bearing

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<v Speaker 3>alternative to stable coins, for example, where somebody might have

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<v Speaker 3>a lot of stable coins that aren't earning yield and

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<v Speaker 3>they've got you know, certain treasury management workflows or needs

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<v Speaker 3>that they might have, and our money market fund wtgxx

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<v Speaker 3>provides a great option for them to you know, diversify

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<v Speaker 3>get yield in this regulated exposure. So that's like kind

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<v Speaker 3>of the prime example today and we see it growing

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<v Speaker 3>quickly from here.

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<v Speaker 1>Are you seeing a lot of demain and from clients

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<v Speaker 1>for crypto assets?

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<v Speaker 3>Yes, I mean so you know, Wisdom Try is a

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<v Speaker 3>kind of the ETF business. We have, you know, a

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<v Speaker 3>bitcoin ETF here in the United States, and then we've

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<v Speaker 3>also got a suite of crypto exchange tare of products

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<v Speaker 3>in the European market, where we actually have a very

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<v Speaker 3>we were an early mover in that market, have a

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<v Speaker 3>very strong position there. So certainly there's demand from our

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<v Speaker 3>traditional clients in terms of crypto assets.

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<v Speaker 2>That's a very competitive space.

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<v Speaker 3>And then what we're seeing more and more what my

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<v Speaker 3>group kind of does is takes traditional exposures and brings

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<v Speaker 3>them into the kind of digital assets ecosystem right and

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<v Speaker 3>meets the needs of the on chain community who are

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<v Speaker 3>looking for kind of yield diversification, a host of services

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<v Speaker 3>that fund managers like ourselves can provide.

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<v Speaker 1>What are your thoughts on the Trump administration opening up

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<v Speaker 1>four to one keys to be able to invest into

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<v Speaker 1>different assets, including crypto What does that mean for your

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<v Speaker 1>business from an ETF standpoint?

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<v Speaker 2>You know, it's interesting, kind of it's funny.

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<v Speaker 3>ETFs have been talked about going four to one k's

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<v Speaker 3>for a long time. It's definitely happened because the things

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<v Speaker 3>that ETFs kind of solve for weren't necessarily relevant in

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<v Speaker 3>the four one k which is historically been dominated by

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<v Speaker 3>mutual funds, and cis kind of getting very into the

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<v Speaker 3>specifics there.

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<v Speaker 2>So it's interesting what is happening the d L.

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<v Speaker 3>I guess opening up four one k's for kind of

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<v Speaker 3>crypto and other assets. Not like a huge impact for

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<v Speaker 3>Wisdom Trues business today, necessarily sure, but just kind of

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<v Speaker 3>a signifies the kind of openness to innovation that we're

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<v Speaker 3>seeing now from the federal kind of administration and regulators.

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<v Speaker 1>Absolutely. Now you mentioned you have a bitcoin et P product.

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<v Speaker 1>I'm assuming you have a theory M.

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<v Speaker 3>And in Europe we've got off suite of products.

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<v Speaker 2>In the US, we just have a bitcoin ETF.

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<v Speaker 1>So my next question will be are you planning to

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<v Speaker 1>expand beyond bitcoin?

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah, I mean I can't really comment as a matter

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<v Speaker 3>of policy on our product development pipeline, but you know

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<v Speaker 3>we're certainly you know, you could read filings out there,

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<v Speaker 3>things like that that Wisdom Trees involved in. But I

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<v Speaker 3>think big picture, you know, it's certainly a very competit

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<v Speaker 3>space in the US, and you know we want to

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<v Speaker 3>put our you know, both good product development for the firm,

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<v Speaker 3>good things for the firm, and also good things for

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<v Speaker 3>our clients in terms of stuff we do.

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<v Speaker 1>What are your thoughts on the SEC's recent update to

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<v Speaker 1>the generic listing for the ETFs? Is that good?

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<v Speaker 2>Bad?

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<v Speaker 1>Oh?

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<v Speaker 2>I think that's good.

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<v Speaker 3>I mean, I think it's kind of funny the ETFs

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<v Speaker 3>you dated back historically. So I've been at Wisdom Tree

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<v Speaker 3>for eleven years, like I was saying before we got

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<v Speaker 3>on the air, and certainly seen a lot of changes

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<v Speaker 3>in the ETF industry in that time, and I think

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<v Speaker 3>generic listing standards are certainly helpful. Means that people don't

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<v Speaker 3>need to go through kind of the nineteen before process

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<v Speaker 3>like they historically need to do in the pasture, which

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<v Speaker 3>was just a limiter in terms of doing things that

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<v Speaker 3>didn't meet these generic listing standards. So I think that's

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<v Speaker 3>good for crypto ETFs. I think the more and more

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<v Speaker 3>that the ETF industry and the regulators can get around

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<v Speaker 3>these sorts of standards that allow products to be list

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<v Speaker 3>it just levels the playing field and allows you know,

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<v Speaker 3>like innovative ETF firms to come up with product I

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<v Speaker 3>meet consumer needs and they can compete on the merits.

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<v Speaker 2>Otherwise it can become hard to behind the scenes.

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<v Speaker 1>Now you mentioned you're handling or doing tokenization of assets

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<v Speaker 1>as well, right, and assistain clients to do that. Does

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<v Speaker 1>it make sense for tokenized assets eventually find our way

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<v Speaker 1>into ETFs or not necessarily?

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<v Speaker 2>You know, it's a good question.

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<v Speaker 3>I mean, I think we're seeing a convergence between these

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<v Speaker 3>two things, and it'll be.

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<v Speaker 2>Interesting exactly how we get there.

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<v Speaker 3>I mean, what youuts really are is there a rapper

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<v Speaker 3>that allows, you know, a investment vehicle to be listed

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<v Speaker 3>on a national securities exchange trade in the secondary market

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<v Speaker 3>that invests in some sort of underlying asset, right, and

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<v Speaker 3>that the price between the ETF share is kept kind

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<v Speaker 3>of in line with the value of the underlying asset

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<v Speaker 3>through the creation redemption mechanism, through arbitrage by market makers,

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<v Speaker 3>and that vehicle, that rapper has proven incredibly powerful in

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<v Speaker 3>terms of bringing kind of liquid exposures to investors just

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<v Speaker 3>investors within the workflows that they have. In fact, it

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<v Speaker 3>actually brings even more liquidity to certain exposures like corporate

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<v Speaker 3>bonds for example.

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<v Speaker 2>So you know, the ets has been very powerful.

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<v Speaker 3>I think it's interesting with tokenization, where you know, in

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<v Speaker 3>what you need to think about the specific use cases

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<v Speaker 3>and problems you're solving for. But there's no need, Like,

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<v Speaker 3>there's no reason to think that, Like, if you're bringing

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<v Speaker 3>a novel asset that's tokenized, let's say it's a digitally

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<v Speaker 3>native issued company in the future, there's no reason a

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<v Speaker 3>ETF couldn't hold that if it were liquid.

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<v Speaker 1>I recently read that wisdom Tree debuted fourteen tokenized funds

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<v Speaker 1>on the Plume blockchain. Yep, tell us about those funds

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<v Speaker 1>and why to Plume block.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah, so wisdom Tree's got fourteen tokenized funds total. We've

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<v Speaker 3>tokenized them now on seven different public blockchains. So these

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<v Speaker 3>are the same funds that are now available on Plume

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<v Speaker 3>as well. Got it, and so Plume Railroad asset focused

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<v Speaker 3>EVM blockchain that's really trying to drive adoption of real

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<v Speaker 3>world assets within kind of crypto workflows. Kind of a

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<v Speaker 3>nice mapping for wisdom Tree as well. So there was

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<v Speaker 3>you know, we saw the kind of synergy there, the

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<v Speaker 3>streets of alignment, we had customer demand for it, and

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<v Speaker 3>so we tokenized our funds on Plum and we're very

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<v Speaker 3>excited about it.

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<v Speaker 1>That's awesome. And then recently you appoint it be and

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<v Speaker 1>why the world's largest custodial bank and oldest bank in

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<v Speaker 1>America for digital assets infrastructure. Tell us about that partner.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, so B and Y is actual Wisdom Tree has

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<v Speaker 2>a long history with B and Why.

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<v Speaker 3>They do a lot for us as kind of a

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<v Speaker 3>fund manager as they're and they do like custody you know,

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<v Speaker 3>backend servicing, sub advisory for us. So this is an

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<v Speaker 3>expansion of our overall relationship with B and Why. And

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<v Speaker 3>really the reason we did it is that, you know,

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<v Speaker 3>we've got a retail app in the US, wisdom Tree Prime,

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<v Speaker 3>that allows people to onboard through kind of a traditional

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<v Speaker 3>onboarding process and then access all of wisdom trees tokenized funds,

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<v Speaker 3>tokenized assets in there, and you can also move them

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<v Speaker 3>off platform. So you could open up a wisdom Tree

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<v Speaker 3>Prime account, buy that money market fund like I said,

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<v Speaker 3>and then move it into your own meta mask while,

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<v Speaker 3>which to me is a very cool new user experience,

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<v Speaker 3>sets up peer to peer transferability, defied composability, things like that. Sure,

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<v Speaker 3>So what B and Y is allowing us to do

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<v Speaker 3>now is providing the banking rails within that ecosystem. Now,

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<v Speaker 3>within wisdom Tree Prime, you've got both banking connectivity, so

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<v Speaker 3>you can move money from your chase, your ba A

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<v Speaker 3>account into wisdom Tree Prime. You also can move money

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<v Speaker 3>over blockchain rails like USDC PY, USD into wisdom Tree

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<v Speaker 3>Prime and out of wisdom Tree Prime. So that kind

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<v Speaker 3>of connectivity between the fiat rails and the blockchain rails

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<v Speaker 3>is really what we're unlocking there. So I'm extremely excited

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<v Speaker 3>about it. We're looking forward to continue to grow this platform.

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<v Speaker 3>It just grows the number of people that can hold

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<v Speaker 3>and invest in our products.

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<v Speaker 1>And I'm sure having the caliber of a b and

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<v Speaker 1>Y Melon as an infrastructure partner helps bring in a

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<v Speaker 1>lot more of the traditional investors. I mean, not trust

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<v Speaker 1>certain crypto native firms, not necessarily that they're doing anything wrong.

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<v Speaker 1>But there's bny Melon, it's been around for a long

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<v Speaker 1>time versus others.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah, I think big picture, you're seeing a convergence, right,

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<v Speaker 3>Like I've heard the line, it's not trad fy, it's

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<v Speaker 3>not DeFi it's just fine now. Yeah, where you're seeing

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<v Speaker 3>innovative but established firms like B and Y like a

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<v Speaker 3>Wisdom Tree is kind of maybe a more startup e

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<v Speaker 3>field than that. You know, we've only been in our

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<v Speaker 3>current for twenty years, but we're a listed company, you know,

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<v Speaker 3>traditional finance institution and you know, trying to innovate, move

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<v Speaker 3>things forward. And I think you're seeing more and more

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<v Speaker 3>of that as I stare at like fidelity banners all

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<v Speaker 3>around us, right, Like there's very much that attitude that

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<v Speaker 3>like traditional finance rooms are here to play in this

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<v Speaker 3>in a real way.

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<v Speaker 1>For sure. What are your thoughts on the tokenization market

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<v Speaker 1>and how that's growing and expanding? It seems as a

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<v Speaker 1>race going on right now to tokenize equities, money market funds,

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<v Speaker 1>and so forth, like what you guys are doing, but

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<v Speaker 1>gold and other precious metals and even real estate.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah, so we're focused on the liquid side of things.

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<v Speaker 3>So we've actually have our own gold token, we've got

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<v Speaker 3>the money market fund, we've got equity funds, we've got

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<v Speaker 3>some alternative vehicles like private cred and alternative income done

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<v Speaker 3>in a liquid way. So like really doing what we've

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<v Speaker 3>done well with ETFs and kind of bringing similar type

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<v Speaker 3>exposures to the on chain market where there are real

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<v Speaker 3>benefits that come with that twenty four to seven liquidity.

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<v Speaker 2>So look, this is.

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<v Speaker 3>What I you on a daily basis, Like, uh, tokenization

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<v Speaker 3>we think is the future, and you know, right, now

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<v Speaker 3>really serving the crypto native community. I think going forward,

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<v Speaker 3>we're to see more and more people coming on chain

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<v Speaker 3>and tokenization is going to serve them in ways that

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<v Speaker 3>they just wasn't possible before. So, you know, like I said, managed,

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<v Speaker 3>you know north of six hundred eighty million or thereabouts today.

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<v Speaker 2>And in a year, could we be at five billion dollars?

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<v Speaker 3>I don't know, Like there's a there's an immense opportunity

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<v Speaker 3>in this new rapper, with this new technology. So we're

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<v Speaker 3>fully committed to it and looking forward to continue to

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<v Speaker 3>grow the market.

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<v Speaker 1>When you're thinking about tokenization and the assets that you

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<v Speaker 1>want to participate with, and then you think of crypto

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<v Speaker 1>as a global asset class, real time instant settlement and

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<v Speaker 1>all that jazz runs twenty four to seven, are you

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<v Speaker 1>also thinking about what other markets can bring in liquidity

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<v Speaker 1>and things like that. Oh?

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<v Speaker 3>Absolutely, I mean I think it's kind of funny, like

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<v Speaker 3>you think about like the an S and P five

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<v Speaker 3>hundred ETF for example, like there's actually it's interesting, there's

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<v Speaker 3>a different ETF and like the US versus the European

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<v Speaker 3>market versus like the Japanese market, that I'll invest in

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<v Speaker 3>the same S and P five hundred, right.

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<v Speaker 2>And that's just naturally how this developed.

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<v Speaker 3>But I think what you've seen with bitcoin stable coins

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<v Speaker 3>is you can have the same asset that can trade

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<v Speaker 3>globally twenty four to seven three sixty five, and so

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<v Speaker 3>I think that's the future and that's the direction of travel, right,

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<v Speaker 3>is can you bring global liquidity where the same asset,

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<v Speaker 3>the same markets can have somebody from the US trading

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<v Speaker 3>in them at ten am, you know, on a Friday,

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<v Speaker 3>and still open for somebody in you know, South Korea

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<v Speaker 3>to be trading at like eleven pm on a Sunday. Right, So,

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<v Speaker 3>like these are that's the direction of travel. It's what

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<v Speaker 3>Crypto's shown that things can be done very well. I

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<v Speaker 3>think there's a lot more market infrastructure that can come

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<v Speaker 3>into power that. But it's very much the direction of travel.

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<v Speaker 1>And the other asset to Alrea. The other side of

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<v Speaker 1>that is we need clarity, We need the market Structure bill.

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<v Speaker 1>We know government is shut down right now, we're waiting

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<v Speaker 1>for that to open up and the Senate to pass bill.

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<v Speaker 1>What are your thoughts on the impact that we'll have

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<v Speaker 1>on the market in innovation?

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah, it's a good you know, I think a lot

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<v Speaker 3>of people here have been talking about Clarity Act, and

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<v Speaker 3>you know, I think the general thing you're hearing from

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<v Speaker 3>people is that, particularly for traditional institutions, that clarity just

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<v Speaker 3>like having that regulatory clarity, gives them a lot of

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<v Speaker 3>ability to actually do more beyond just the POC stage.

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<v Speaker 2>But like for a lot of us.

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<v Speaker 3>We're all not just like sitting around waiting for something

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<v Speaker 3>to pass right, Like things have evolved such in a

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<v Speaker 3>way that to the Genius Act kind of just greater

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<v Speaker 3>kind of comfort around innovation that there's more you can do.

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<v Speaker 3>So like for Wisdom Tree, like our products are live today,

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<v Speaker 3>you can sign up for Wisdom Troup Prime. You can

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<v Speaker 3>if you're an institution, you can onboard with this stim

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<v Speaker 3>we connect access to these products. We think they are

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<v Speaker 3>a provide a great user experience for that sort of

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<v Speaker 3>on chain investing experience.

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<v Speaker 2>And you know, we or off to the races.

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<v Speaker 1>Well you probably can give all the details, but what's

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<v Speaker 1>on your road map? But what can we expect in

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<v Speaker 1>twenty twenty six?

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah, I mean I think we spoke spoke a little

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<v Speaker 3>bit about this on my panel this morning. I mean,

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<v Speaker 3>at some level, I think getting our exposures to fit

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<v Speaker 3>more and more into crypto native workflows in a very

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<v Speaker 3>native way is of critical important for us, and I

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<v Speaker 3>think we've made a lot of progress there.

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<v Speaker 2>We can keep making progress.

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<v Speaker 3>And then also like I think there's a whole universe,

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<v Speaker 3>like these are all permissioned products right now, right like

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<v Speaker 3>they're not available for like permissionless products.

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<v Speaker 2>But I think that I don't know if it's like

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<v Speaker 2>that barrier's dropping.

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<v Speaker 3>But like the ability to serve more and more people

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<v Speaker 3>within the regulatory perimeter and doing it in a responsible

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<v Speaker 3>way and also a very user friendly use, good user

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<v Speaker 3>experience way is completely possible.

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<v Speaker 2>So you know, there's gonna be.

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<v Speaker 3>Panel tomorrow that Chain Links putting on around compliance and

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<v Speaker 3>things like that. So I think those two things going

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<v Speaker 3>forward is really what we're focused on.

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<v Speaker 2>And also just continuing to grow AUM and adoption of.

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<v Speaker 1>Our products well great stuff, looking forward to the future updates,

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<v Speaker 1>and we're gonna have to do a longer form conversation

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<v Speaker 1>at some point.

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<v Speaker 2>I love that.

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<v Speaker 1>But thank you so much for joining me, my.

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<v Speaker 2>Pleasure, Thank you for having me.

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<v Speaker 1>This episode is brought to you by v Chain. V

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<v Speaker 1>Chain is one of the top layer one enterprise blockchains

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<v Speaker 1>in the crypto asset class, and they are getting adoption

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<v Speaker 1>by many big brands and companies around the world who

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<v Speaker 1>are building Web three and decentralized application technologies. I've been

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<v Speaker 1>a VET token holder for many years. In fact, I

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<v Speaker 1>started investing in v chain back in twenty eighteen, and

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<v Speaker 1>some of the key features of the v chain blockchain

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<v Speaker 1>includes its secure, affordable, scalable, fast, and sustainable. Some of

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<v Speaker 1>the companies and brands working with vchain include Jivon, Chi,

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<v Speaker 1>Walmart China, BMW, Boston Consulting Group, and many more. Most recently,

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<v Speaker 1>they partnered with Dana White in the UFC, and Dana

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<v Speaker 1>White even said recently that he purchased over a million

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<v Speaker 1>dollars of the VET token and vchain also recently launched

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<v Speaker 1>staking where you can stake the VET token and earn

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<v Speaker 1>great rewards. So if you'd like to learn more about

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<v Speaker 1>v chain, go to vchain dot org. Link will be

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<v Speaker 1>in the description. Yes