Speaker 1: An open and shut case, finding the evidence and knowing
Speaker 1: exactly who did what. In a perfect world, that's just
Speaker 1: how the justice system should work. However, we don't live
Speaker 1: in a perfect world. The case against Ryan Waller seemed
Speaker 1: to be an open and shut case. However, as the
Speaker 1: hours ticked by and his interrogation began, things started to shift,
Speaker 1: and soon police would find themselves in a very bizarre
Speaker 1: situation as they let Ryan walk out the door. Hey,
Speaker 1: welcome back.
Speaker 2: My name's Ben and I'm Nicole, and you're listening to
Speaker 2: Wicked and Grim, a.
Speaker 1: True crime podcast.
Speaker 2: It is a true crime podcast.
Speaker 1: That's just facts. I don't have it happening.
Speaker 2: What else is new?
Speaker 1: What do you mean what else is new that I
Speaker 1: don't have it?
Speaker 2: Know that it's a true crime podcast podcast.
Speaker 1: Hello, Well, I mean we're approaching episode ninety, so I
Speaker 1: would assurely it's known.
Speaker 2: Where does the time go? Eh?
Speaker 1: Oh man, tell me about it? But I do have whiskey,
Speaker 1: so that's that's a nice thing.
Speaker 2: And it's July.
Speaker 1: It is we just had Canada Day long.
Speaker 2: Weekend be Canada Day, and then it's going to be.
Speaker 1: July fourth for Memorial Day. Our American friends down in
Speaker 1: the United States dates trying not to blow off your
Speaker 1: thumb with fireworks on the celebrations, because that is something
Speaker 1: that occurs pretty much every year.
Speaker 2: That that happens to someone.
Speaker 1: I mean, yeah, I mean people using fireworks.
Speaker 2: So they can be there, like I'm a bit afraid
Speaker 2: of them. They can be pretty dangerous.
Speaker 1: Well. Yeah, people get a little bit overconfident, especially or
Speaker 1: they're drinking, especially with consumption of alcohol.
Speaker 2: Oh that's where you're going.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and accidents definitely occur, and it's on the rise
Speaker 1: every time they're celebrations revolving around fireworks.
Speaker 2: So well, I also think people to just think, I
Speaker 2: don't know, more and more so that they're like invincible.
Speaker 2: We think we're getting more and more invincible in a sense,
Speaker 2: that's true. I feel like that. I know, I think
Speaker 2: I get personally.
Speaker 1: But I get more and more invincible, I think the
Speaker 1: more I drink. So yeah, I can feel that. What
Speaker 1: are we going to talk about today? Oh, we had
Speaker 1: one hell of an episode over on Patreon. Yeah, the
Speaker 1: exclusive episode and Nicole let us through that. You want
Speaker 1: to give us a little quick rundown on what happened?
Speaker 2: Uh, two runs don't make it right? Just kidding. That's
Speaker 2: a little inside joke. You have to go over there
Speaker 2: too to get yep. But yeah, we covered the Canadian
Speaker 2: case on Albert Johnson Walker. So this dude, he stole
Speaker 2: a lot of money. Mm hmmm, he stole some identities
Speaker 2: m hm, he murdered someone, h among some other shit. Yeah,
Speaker 2: so he was a bad mofo. Like he was shady
Speaker 2: as fuck.
Speaker 1: That was one hell of a case.
Speaker 2: So it really it was a case that was like
Speaker 2: a soap opera and there was a lot of twists
Speaker 2: and turns and you never knew what the heck was
Speaker 2: going to happen, but it was. It was good. Yeah,
Speaker 2: I liked it.
Speaker 1: If you want to listen to that, you got to
Speaker 1: head over to Patreon. We drop an exclusive episode the
Speaker 1: last day of every month for our patron listeners, so
Speaker 1: you can go one over there, sign up and listen
Speaker 1: listen to the episode.
Speaker 2: Ye yeah, what.
Speaker 1: Else you got it?
Speaker 2: Oh?
Speaker 1: Okay, there, you send me a link today I did. Yeah,
Speaker 1: guarding a movie.
Speaker 2: That is being made apparently, what was it a Life
Speaker 2: on Lifetime or something?
Speaker 1: Yeah, Lifetime is making a movie on the case of
Speaker 1: Gabby Patito and Brian Laundry. We just talked about an
Speaker 1: update the other day, and I'm assuming this means all
Speaker 1: the information is out. We haven't been following the case
Speaker 1: too closely, but if they're making a movie, they know everything.
Speaker 2: So I feel like it's so soon, too soon.
Speaker 1: I don't know, I don't know, I don't know.
Speaker 2: Hard to say, I feel like it's a bit soon,
Speaker 2: but I mean it's a year ago or so.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it was twenty twenty one, so I'm curious to
Speaker 1: see it. I think I'm gonna wait until that movie
Speaker 1: comes out. I'm going to watch that shit out of
Speaker 1: that and then I'm going to dive into research and
Speaker 1: then we're going to cover that case fully and do
Speaker 1: it full justice again. Yeah, because we did it already,
Speaker 1: but we did it a little rushed. I mean, we
Speaker 1: were trying to be like, hey, let's get it out there,
Speaker 1: let's be one of the first podcasts to cover this,
Speaker 1: and to our own fault, we fell for some falsified
Speaker 1: information that the media was putting out, and like the
Speaker 1: next day it was realized that that was false information.
Speaker 2: So yeah, yeah, because you cannot always trust the media,
Speaker 2: Holy heck, no, could it be unreal?
Speaker 1: We got it from reliable sources too, it's not their
Speaker 1: fault either. It was falsified information. So that's what happens
Speaker 1: when you go a little bit too soon without confirming facts.
Speaker 1: And we did that. We're not going to do that again.
Speaker 2: But the media can also twist things into a certain
Speaker 2: way too, oh yeah, to sell and you know.
Speaker 1: And speaking of media, there was another news article that
Speaker 1: came out today.
Speaker 2: Yeah, you shared this with one with me. This is wild.
Speaker 1: So every year there is this crazy cool stampede that
Speaker 1: happens in a little old town just south of us
Speaker 1: called Williams Lake.
Speaker 2: About three hours or so away, I'd say, yeah, three
Speaker 2: hours so.
Speaker 1: About three hundred klometers away. They have this crazy cool stampede.
Speaker 1: It is actually quite large for the small town.
Speaker 2: Big deal.
Speaker 1: Yeah, people travel from all over to go to this stampede.
Speaker 1: Apparently there was a shooting in behind the stands, so yeah.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I can't even imagine that happening there, to be honest.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's nuts. So two people were allegedly injured and
Speaker 1: are currently in hospital, one is arrested, and they are
Speaker 1: on the search for another potential shooter. And this happened
Speaker 1: just today, so yeah, that's kind of crazy.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, this is such a small town too.
Speaker 2: That's just going to just shake everyone for sure, one.
Speaker 1: Hundred percent, especially because this was the first time the
Speaker 1: stampede happened since COVID.
Speaker 2: Oh dang, Yeah, that's sad. Things are just kind of
Speaker 2: slowly opening up again and then shit like that happens.
Speaker 1: Yeah, so huh so that's terrible and tragic to hear.
Speaker 1: I hope those two people make a full recovery and
Speaker 1: they get both the individuals responsible in the shooting.
Speaker 2: Well, yeah, maybe there'll be a bit more details coming
Speaker 2: out too, because I'd like to know what the heck
Speaker 2: went on there.
Speaker 1: Yeah, we'll find out. Finally, we are I think we
Speaker 1: mentioned this before that we're going to be tackling some
Speaker 1: more lesser known cases, not that we are not doing
Speaker 1: some of the bigger known ones as well.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, because I still have some big ones on
Speaker 2: my list.
Speaker 1: Yeah, oh so do I trust me? And people still
Speaker 1: want us to cover some of the bigger ones, to
Speaker 1: hear you our exactly, So those are definitely going to
Speaker 1: happen too. But you guys seem to really like it
Speaker 1: when we cover these lesser known cases. And I've found
Speaker 1: out recently in my endeavors of trying to learn the
Speaker 1: wonderful world of Reddit that it is a great resource
Speaker 1: for some of these lesser known cases.
Speaker 2: I'm not even a hunter. I'm not very versed on Reddit.
Speaker 1: You should be.
Speaker 2: I'm not searching what it even is, to be honest.
Speaker 2: It's it's a forum, okay where people just like it's
Speaker 2: like a kind.
Speaker 1: Of a blog ish yeah thing, go in there and
Speaker 1: search topics and then people just post on these topics.
Speaker 2: I have used read it before for looking at some
Speaker 2: cases and stuff, but I never just like have gone
Speaker 2: in there. It's always come up on like a.
Speaker 1: Google's yeah, and then you follow that link and you're
Speaker 1: tea yeah, then yeah, put it into it. Well, thanks
Speaker 1: to Reddit. That's how I found out about the case today,
Speaker 1: the case of Ryan Waller and Heather Kwan.
Speaker 2: Super cool.
Speaker 1: This is a roller coast of a case. So if
Speaker 1: you don't know this case, buckle your seat belts. If
Speaker 1: you do know what, you know what's going to happen.
Speaker 1: So don't tell anyone, Okay.
Speaker 2: Okay, just everyone else. Sure that I don't know this case, well,
Speaker 2: you were going to do a different one originally, right
Speaker 2: that I did know? Yes, this one, okay, this one
Speaker 2: I don't know.
Speaker 1: Yeah, So this one takes place on Christmas Day of
Speaker 1: two thousand and six. I was thinking of saving this,
Speaker 1: yeah Christmas.
Speaker 2: But like you should have saved this to Christmas.
Speaker 1: It was a hard fond No, I wanted to do
Speaker 1: this one right away.
Speaker 2: Okay.
Speaker 1: So it takes place in Desert Hills, Arizona.
Speaker 2: Okay.
Speaker 1: So Heather Kwan was a twenty one year old college student.
Speaker 1: She was a kind soul who she had the need
Speaker 1: to help other people, which was evident by her teen years.
Speaker 1: She would spend many of her weekends out volunteering for
Speaker 1: foundations to help underprivileged kids. She even dreamed of helping
Speaker 1: people in her adult years, which is why she aspired
Speaker 1: to become a defense lawyer and most likely what she
Speaker 1: was beginning to study in her post secondary education as well. Nice,
Speaker 1: so right off the bat, super awesome person.
Speaker 2: No kidding.
Speaker 1: Now. At the time, she was at a place with
Speaker 1: her boyfriend Ryan Ryan Waller. She was living there with him,
Speaker 1: and Ryan was a bit younger than her, and Ryan
Speaker 1: was eighteen years old, and Ryan was a gun enthusiast.
Speaker 1: Nothing wrong with that. I'm just going to say that
Speaker 1: there there are many people who are gun enthusiasts. That
Speaker 1: does not make you bad person. It's if you miss
Speaker 1: use yes your power, you will still be responsible at
Speaker 1: one hundred percent. Now, on the night of December twenty
Speaker 1: third of two thousand and six is when we're going
Speaker 1: to go to Okay.
Speaker 2: Okay, so we're backtracking two days.
Speaker 1: We are kap because on December twenty third, Heather went
Speaker 1: to Ryan's or sorry, Heather was at Ryan's place where
Speaker 1: she lived with him, and she was there. They were
Speaker 1: enjoying a movie in a pizza knight.
Speaker 2: Specifically Nice I want one of those.
Speaker 1: But nobody had heard from them since. The two days
Speaker 1: rolled by to December twenty fifth, Christmas Day, and neither
Speaker 1: of them showed up for the Christmas Day celebrations. They
Speaker 1: had planned to visit Ryan's father, Dawn, on Christmas, but
Speaker 1: they didn't show. He made dinner and was left there waiting.
Speaker 2: Oh my goodness, that's not good.
Speaker 1: Yeah, So Dawn clearly tried to contact both of them
Speaker 1: and was unfortunately unable to connect. No one answered either phone. Now,
Speaker 1: this was very abnormal. It was very uncharacteristic of them
Speaker 1: to not answer. It was very uncharacteristic of them to
Speaker 1: not show up or you know, let him know or
Speaker 1: not be in contact. So he was immediately worked.
Speaker 2: Well, especially if you like being that time of year, Christmas, right,
Speaker 2: you're more so involved in contact with family.
Speaker 1: Oh, definitely. You usually have schedules planned, who's bringing them
Speaker 1: up for dinner or whatever. And if you got multiple
Speaker 1: families who're stopping off at you know, you're going to
Speaker 1: be planning that all out too, right.
Speaker 2: There's a lot of people you're in contact with around
Speaker 2: that time. Yeah, not for everyone though, not forever.
Speaker 1: Yeah, but generally speaking.
Speaker 2: Yeah, generally, I mean it's too much.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it is. Honestly, Christmas is Christmas is a good
Speaker 1: time of year, but it's not my favorite.
Speaker 2: It's just too much, you see, my favorite. But it
Speaker 2: gets a little bit daunting sometimes.
Speaker 1: And the consumerism gets me. Consumerism bothers me so much.
Speaker 1: So anyways, our opinions aside. Dawn ended up calling the police.
Speaker 1: He was concerned and he wanted them to do a
Speaker 1: welfare check on Ryan and Heather. Okay, so police arrived
Speaker 1: at their door and they knocked with no answer. The
Speaker 1: police also saw someone's car in the driveway. They weren't
Speaker 1: sure if it was Ryan or Heather's, but there was
Speaker 1: someone's car in the driveway at least, so potentially someone
Speaker 1: was home exactly. Yeah, they looked in the in the
Speaker 1: windows and they saw some lights on, not too many,
Speaker 1: but there was some lights on. Again, maybe someone's home,
Speaker 1: but there's nothing too sure about it, nothing to really confirm,
Speaker 1: and with no one answering the door, there's no way
Speaker 1: to know for sure. So they knocked again, and this
Speaker 1: time they made it clear who they were, and they
Speaker 1: said police were here to issue a wellness check, is
Speaker 1: anyone home? This time it didn't go unanswered. They heard
Speaker 1: the sound of the door being unlocked from the inside
Speaker 1: and the latch clicked and swung open with Ryan standing
Speaker 1: in the doorway. Now immediately police could tell something wasn't right.
Speaker 1: Ryan was standing in front of him with a massive
Speaker 1: black eye and a gash on the side of his
Speaker 1: nose and a couple other cuts on his face as well. Now,
Speaker 1: when I say is I like he had a black eye,
Speaker 1: I mean like this was bad. The bruising was pretty
Speaker 1: much as dark as it gets, and it surrounded the
Speaker 1: entirety of his left eye, like his whole eye SOCKETI
Speaker 1: just like as dark as can be for a bruise.
Speaker 1: So behind him, police could also see a woman laying
Speaker 1: on the couch. They began to explain to Ryan that
Speaker 1: they were there for the wellness check and his father
Speaker 1: had called concerned, and they asked Ryan what had happened
Speaker 1: to his eye. Ryan was acting really odd. He said
Speaker 1: he didn't know what happened to his eye, and he
Speaker 1: seemed very evasive and nonchalant about the whole situation. The
Speaker 1: police asked if the woman on the couch behind him
Speaker 1: if that was Heather, to which Ryan responded, yes, but
Speaker 1: Heather was sleeping, so he didn't want to disturb her
Speaker 1: or wake her up.
Speaker 2: Okay. I was like, is she alive? But she That
Speaker 2: doesn't not really answer the question.
Speaker 1: It doesn't. And now being that this is a wellness check, however,
Speaker 1: sleeping doesn't matter to the police, They're like, well, we're
Speaker 1: not gonna not wake her up. We need to check
Speaker 1: and make sure she's okay.
Speaker 2: Okay good. I thought they might have just taken that
Speaker 2: as so.
Speaker 1: No, they need to confirm that both people are in
Speaker 1: fact okay, okay good, especially considering the initial appearance of
Speaker 1: Ryan and the bruising of his face. Right. So, after
Speaker 1: some more conversations between Ryan and the police, and some
Speaker 1: convincing Ryan eventually accepted that they needed to wake up
Speaker 1: Heather to check on her as well, so he stepped
Speaker 1: aside and let the police end.
Speaker 2: No problem, okay.
Speaker 1: Once they approached Heather, however, things took a quick turn
Speaker 1: for the worse because Heather wasn't sleeping on the couch.
Speaker 1: She was laying there in her own blood. Heather had
Speaker 1: suffered a single gunshot wound to the head, and it
Speaker 1: was clear to the police due to her condition, that
Speaker 1: this would have occurred a few days ago.
Speaker 2: Oh no, okay, that's what I was not hoping was
Speaker 2: the case.
Speaker 1: That is the exact case.
Speaker 2: But that so you almost wonder if he was like
Speaker 2: position that so that oh, just like you can see
Speaker 2: her feet like she's just sleeping. Meanwhile she's like dead
Speaker 2: on the couch. Holy heck.
Speaker 1: So I'm going to go to the limb here and
Speaker 1: I'm going to say something. There is a major twist
Speaker 1: in this case. You're allowed to speculate all you want
Speaker 1: as I'm talking. Okay, Okay, I am not going to
Speaker 1: confirm deny or go into conversations with any of it.
Speaker 2: So literally, that's just our normal.
Speaker 1: Life pretty much. So what you're saying, is you think
Speaker 1: Ryan could have potentially been positioning her on the coach
Speaker 1: to try and convince police that she was asleep rather
Speaker 1: than deceased.
Speaker 2: Well potentially, that was my initial thought. Yeah, like that
Speaker 2: would be because your hope would be open the door
Speaker 2: and like yeah, I'm good, everything's good, whatever, and then
Speaker 2: they just leave and don't actually come in to like
Speaker 2: make sure that Heather is alive. And well, yeah, that's fair. Yeah,
Speaker 2: could happen potentially some Oh definitely police maybe just okay, yeah,
Speaker 2: like it's Christmas, like whatever.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I see you're sleeping there. Yes, that makes sense. Well,
Speaker 1: clearly that's not what happened. They clearly went in, they
Speaker 1: saw her unfortunately passed away, and immediately Ryan was arrested
Speaker 1: and in police custody. Yeah, but Ryan seemed a little confused.
Speaker 1: He didn't know why he was being arrested or exactly
Speaker 1: what was going on.
Speaker 2: So he's in shock.
Speaker 1: Potentially, Well, he didn't resist and he was put into
Speaker 1: the backseat of the squad car while more police processed
Speaker 1: the scene and paramedics attended to Heather.
Speaker 2: Oh that's so sad.
Speaker 1: Mm hmm. So he was just kind of like, what's
Speaker 1: going on like why am I arrested? What's happening? So
Speaker 1: Ryan would sit in the backseat of the car for
Speaker 1: several hours before police would know how to process this.
Speaker 1: After all, I mean, they were just performing a routine
Speaker 1: wellness check, right, and then they knock on the door
Speaker 1: and they stumble on to basically a murder scene. So
Speaker 1: eventually Ryan would have ended up at the police station
Speaker 1: and interrogations regarding the incident would begin with Ryan at
Speaker 1: five eight am. Okay, Now, the full interrogation footage is
Speaker 1: actually available online.
Speaker 2: Oh right, I remember saying that, yes, you.
Speaker 1: Can watch this whole thing on YouTube. I've watched it
Speaker 1: about three times now, probably more if you include going
Speaker 1: back for clips and stuff. So as it begins, Ryan
Speaker 1: walks into the room dressed in a complete white jumpsuit
Speaker 1: that clearly the investigators put him into. I'm assuming to
Speaker 1: take his clothes for evidence, right, okay, and looking very
Speaker 1: visibly fatigued and uncomfortable. He's often like swaying back and
Speaker 1: forth or changing positions and like very uncomfortable, and he's
Speaker 1: even moaning at times, just being like, oh so he's
Speaker 1: not having a good time. He is cuugh to the
Speaker 1: table in the room and sits down on the corner
Speaker 1: chair as he waits for the questioning to begin. The
Speaker 1: first thing that happens in interrogation is that they begin
Speaker 1: taking pictures of the bottom of his feet. And I'm
Speaker 1: presuming this is for forensic reasons. Maybe it could be
Speaker 1: footprints found in the house or somewhere around the scene.
Speaker 2: Okay, I was like, why, okay, that makes sense though.
Speaker 1: So once this is going on, the very first thing
Speaker 1: Ryan says in this interrogation footage is quote, man, I
Speaker 1: just want to go to sleep, to which the detectives
Speaker 1: in the room. The detective sorry in the room later responds,
Speaker 1: if you have a concussion, you don't need to sleep.
Speaker 1: That's what the doctors will say. So clearly they assume
Speaker 1: he's got a concussion and they don't want him to sleep, right,
Speaker 1: which we all know if you have a concussion, you
Speaker 1: shouldn't be going to.
Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, you got to stay awake for sure.
Speaker 1: Because that can just cause brain damage or anything like that.
Speaker 1: So moments later Ryan also did say do I get
Speaker 1: to go home? Shortly after that, the immediate response from
Speaker 1: the detective is should go to a doctor? Is where
Speaker 1: you should go?
Speaker 2: It's like he has no idea what's going on at all?
Speaker 1: Seems like it.
Speaker 2: I told you, I'm not going to take some he
Speaker 2: has some sort of brain damage already or something. I'm
Speaker 2: wondering you think, so, well, potentially, he doesn't seem like
Speaker 2: he quite realizes the situation that he's in at all.
Speaker 1: Yeah, why are you just laughing at him?
Speaker 2: Because you're just like, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1: Well I can't say anything because that's fair. But anyways, yeah,
Speaker 1: should go to a doctor's Where you should go is
Speaker 1: clearly in reference to.
Speaker 2: His bad appearance face. Yes.
Speaker 1: So eventually the questionings do begin, and it begins with
Speaker 1: the reading of his rights and some rather basic questioning
Speaker 1: to open up things like you know his name, age,
Speaker 1: did he own the house, who lived there? The highest
Speaker 1: grade he achieved through high school. All of these questions
Speaker 1: went on only to stir confusion. Ryan mostly answered yes or
Speaker 1: no questions pretty vaguely, or often answered with I don't.
Speaker 2: Know, well some of those already, Like highest grade in
Speaker 2: high school, I mean I wouldn't remember, but it's like
Speaker 2: this dude.
Speaker 1: Well, no highest grade like graduating like grade twelve?
Speaker 2: Oh okay, I see, I see. But he's young too,
Speaker 2: isn't he he's eighteen.
Speaker 1: Yeah, But Ryan wasn't actually able to answer that question either.
Speaker 1: He didn't know.
Speaker 2: He didn't even know if he graduated.
Speaker 1: The detective at one point asked, do you have your
Speaker 1: ged I can't remember his response, but I'm pretty sure
Speaker 1: he says, I don't know to that exact question, I
Speaker 1: didn't have that one written down.
Speaker 2: Interesting.
Speaker 1: The detective was clearly getting visibly frustrated as he asked
Speaker 1: Ryan these simple questions, and Ryan was getting visibly frustrated
Speaker 1: as well with the situation. He was fidgeting and kept
Speaker 1: saying he just wanted to go home or wanted to
Speaker 1: go to sleep. He was clearly distracted. He was clearly upset. Now.
Speaker 1: Anytime he did answer questions for the detective, it didn't
Speaker 1: usually make any sense like the previous ones, or it
Speaker 1: contradicted itself, contradicting something that he had already said in
Speaker 1: the interrogation questions from earlier.
Speaker 2: He would go on.
Speaker 1: He would say that Heather was his girlfriend, and then
Speaker 1: that she was just a friend. He didn't know her
Speaker 1: last name, and then he said that she was only
Speaker 1: sixteen or seventeen years old, when she was actually in
Speaker 1: her twenties. A lot of what he said, again contradicting
Speaker 1: not making sense. You look very confused right now.
Speaker 2: Well, no, I mean I'm not confused. Doesn't all makes sense,
Speaker 2: but it's just like weird, just weird. Yeah, to be
Speaker 2: like she's my girlfriend, she's not my girlfriend, not even
Speaker 2: knowing your age, just like he's maybe living in the
Speaker 2: past a bit or something. Do you think so potentially
Speaker 2: potentially I feel like I don't want to say much
Speaker 2: because I'm gonna be so wrong that something just the
Speaker 2: opposite of what I'm thinking is gonna happen.
Speaker 1: Fair enough, Well, the officer knew much of the information
Speaker 1: Ryan was giving him wasn't true, but he kept prodding
Speaker 1: and kept trying to find out any simple information that
Speaker 1: he could. Eventually, he asked Ryan how he got the
Speaker 1: bruises on his face, to which Ryan responded, he didn't
Speaker 1: know which.
Speaker 2: It sounded like it was a dozy of a bruise.
Speaker 1: You think you'd know, Oh, it's a doozy of a bruise.
Speaker 1: But then later he would say that Heather actually did
Speaker 1: it and that it was an accident, something along the
Speaker 1: lines of while she was helping a friend do her hair,
Speaker 1: she accidentally hit him with her fist. Now it seemed
Speaker 1: like the officer was getting somewhere, so he continued to
Speaker 1: push forward, but the answers again changed, and he repeated,
Speaker 1: I don't know.
Speaker 2: But sorry, what was it? Initially that she was helped
Speaker 2: or a friend was helping her do her hair, and she.
Speaker 1: Had him Heather was helping a friend do her hair,
Speaker 1: and in that she accidentally hit him in the face.
Speaker 2: Okay, which I mean could happen, But would it ended
Speaker 2: up leaving that kind of a bruise in that situation?
Speaker 1: Woos to say? Now, the detective was again getting frustrated,
Speaker 1: more and more so as time went on, the story
Speaker 1: was changing. Ryan clearly wasn't speaking the truth, no matter
Speaker 1: how hard he kept or how hard Ryan the No
Speaker 1: matter how hard he tried, Ryan kept up the same behaviors.
Speaker 1: There you go, sorry, stumbled out a little bit. Even
Speaker 1: the questions the exact question, I should say, what happened
Speaker 1: last night? Ryan responded with, I don't know.
Speaker 2: Meanwhile, your girlfriend is dead on the couch cheek yep.
Speaker 1: Now, not knowing what else to do, the detective makes
Speaker 1: a change in his tactic. He becomes much more aggressive
Speaker 1: in his approach, I should say, not physically or right. Yeah,
Speaker 1: And at five point forty two am, he comes right
Speaker 1: out and says to Ryan, quote, there's a dead girl
Speaker 1: in your living room. And Ryan, though not very upset
Speaker 1: or shaken, seemed surprised by this. And right then and there,
Speaker 1: something seemed to change with Ryan's story. He immediately began
Speaker 1: talking about how some people, quote Richie and his dad,
Speaker 1: came over and shot both Heather and himself with a revolver.
Speaker 2: Okay.
Speaker 1: When he was asked where he was shot, Ryan replied,
Speaker 1: he was shot in the eye.
Speaker 2: In the eye, that's.
Speaker 1: What he said. Yeah, he said he was shot in
Speaker 1: the eye.
Speaker 2: Okay, which meanwhile he was just like punched or something
Speaker 2: in the eye.
Speaker 1: Well, I mean, the story doesn't seem to make much sense.
Speaker 1: How could someone get shot in the freaking eye and
Speaker 1: be around to sit here in interrogation and tell someone
Speaker 1: about it? Right? The detective clearly didn't believe him. It
Speaker 1: seemed like Ryan was trying to put the blame on
Speaker 1: someone else or some sort of other incident. So this
Speaker 1: conversation continues and Ryan stays on course with this new story.
Speaker 1: He says, two men, Richie and his dad, came over
Speaker 1: and entered through the back door Richie used. Richie used
Speaker 1: to be his roommate. Oh, and then he entered and
Speaker 1: he shot him in the eye, and then he shot Heather.
Speaker 1: After that, Ryan said he just wanted to go to sleep,
Speaker 1: and he just wanted to let Heather sleep too, which
Speaker 1: is why he didn't call any ambulance. But of course
Speaker 1: we know Heather wasn't sleeping.
Speaker 2: Dang, that's so sad.
Speaker 1: Uh So where's your head at on this?
Speaker 2: Oh? My head is all over the place. Who the
Speaker 2: fuck is Richie? For one? I need to know? And
Speaker 2: I'm wondering, Like my brain goes to, Okay, well did
Speaker 2: he get hit shot in the eye, but like something
Speaker 2: was covering his eye and then there was like some
Speaker 2: sort of an impact from that, like it caused the
Speaker 2: black eye and like his concussion and everything. But like
Speaker 2: clearly he wasn't shot actually shot. I'm trying to make
Speaker 2: sense of it.
Speaker 1: You're trying to make sense of it, Okay, Well, keep
Speaker 1: trying to make sense of it. That's just totally cool.
Speaker 2: Yeah, but it's very sad. I mean, Heather probably didn't
Speaker 2: have a chance, like if he did call someone and
Speaker 2: not like have her just sleep but sounding like it,
Speaker 2: she probably didn't have a chance anyway.
Speaker 1: Regardless regardless of what happened, Clearly Heather did not have
Speaker 1: a chance unfortunately. Yes, So at one point in the interrogation,
Speaker 1: you can actually see the detective's frustration. He like drops
Speaker 1: his pen on the table and his arms kind of
Speaker 1: go up, like you can see in that moment he
Speaker 1: almost fights himself from like literally throwing his hands in
Speaker 1: the air.
Speaker 2: That's fair though, because as.
Speaker 1: He throws his hands in the air, he just begins
Speaker 1: and like puts him behind his head. But oh, you
Speaker 1: can see the actual frustration as he quite literally throws
Speaker 1: his hands in the air and catches himself in that moment.
Speaker 2: See, I think that being a detective would be an
Speaker 2: awesome kind of like well, I don't know if I
Speaker 2: should say awesome, a very interesting job. But then like
Speaker 2: interrogating and that sort of thing would just like I
Speaker 2: just don't know if I could do it, I think
Speaker 2: I would be like, this is shit.
Speaker 1: Some of the tactics involved in interrogation is incredible.
Speaker 2: Well, and you're in there for hours on edge.
Speaker 1: Well that's part of it too. They're trying to.
Speaker 2: Wear you down exactly. But your mind is probably always
Speaker 2: going like how can I get this information out? And
Speaker 2: I feel like it'd be very stressful job. The ent well,
Speaker 2: I mean all of it.
Speaker 1: Really one of the tactics that I do know what
Speaker 1: they use, and it's actually used. I learned this one
Speaker 1: actually with another podcast I was on, is when you're
Speaker 1: having a conversation with an individual and you want more information,
Speaker 1: you just let them talk. You just you don't say anything, right,
Speaker 1: you just silence, let them talk and they'll keep talking.
Speaker 1: So these these detectives and interrogation they will sit very
Speaker 1: close to you and make you very uncomfortable in your
Speaker 1: personal bubble, and they will just stare at you. They
Speaker 1: will not look away, and they will wait for you
Speaker 1: to talk. The first person who looks away basically loses.
Speaker 1: The detectives will not look away until you do.
Speaker 2: That's a tactic and a lot of things. Even when
Speaker 2: I was in a position of fundraising and stuff, lots
Speaker 2: of times safe you like asked for a certain gift
Speaker 2: or something right, and like lots of people they get
Speaker 2: like they'll go in their head like oh my gosh,
Speaker 2: I shouldn't asked that or whatever, and then they'll just
Speaker 2: like start yapping and like screw it up. But like
Speaker 2: if you're just like quiet, right and just like let
Speaker 2: the other person speak and stuff like, things can happen.
Speaker 2: But it's very awkward and comfortable to do that.
Speaker 1: It is. But no matter how quiet this detective was,
Speaker 1: it wasn't working.
Speaker 2: He just would say nothing.
Speaker 1: Basically Ryan was wanting to go to sleep.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah. He would be like, can you shut up
Speaker 2: so I can just have an aup?
Speaker 1: Pretty much he would at times even put his head
Speaker 1: down on the table.
Speaker 2: Oh my goodness.
Speaker 1: So the detective was quite literally at his wits end,
Speaker 1: and he finally decided to entertain this story of these
Speaker 1: two men coming in through bad and someone yeah, Richie
Speaker 1: and his dad coming from the back and shooting Ryan
Speaker 1: and Heather.
Speaker 2: Can I clarify Richie and Richie's dad.
Speaker 1: Correct, Yes, Richie and Richie's dad.
Speaker 2: Okay.
Speaker 1: Yeah, so Richie and.
Speaker 2: Just making sure it wasn't like his dad.
Speaker 1: Richie and Ryan's dad. No, Richie and Richie's dad.
Speaker 2: Okay.
Speaker 1: So the detective is starting to entertain this idea, and
Speaker 1: you can you can see a shift in the whole
Speaker 1: attitude d of this detective. He begins to think, okay,
Speaker 1: what if Ryan was shot? What if Ryan was shot
Speaker 1: in the face? What if something did happen? So the
Speaker 1: detective decided he was going to get Ryan to leaning
Speaker 1: closer and he was going to take a look at
Speaker 1: his face. And to his surprise, the detective could see
Speaker 1: a bullet hole.
Speaker 2: What yes, in his face?
Speaker 1: In his face?
Speaker 2: Okay, I was one hundred and ten percent not thinking
Speaker 2: that there was actually going to be a bullet hole.
Speaker 1: Yep. Where I'll get into the details of where here
Speaker 1: in a little bit.
Speaker 2: That's crazy, yep.
Speaker 1: So he called the fire marshal and uncuffed Ryan as
Speaker 1: they waited.
Speaker 2: Well, yeah, he needs medical assistance for sure.
Speaker 1: Yes, Soon the fire marshal arrived. They begin assessing him
Speaker 1: with things like a blood pressure, and they arrived before
Speaker 1: the ambulance did, so they were doing this in the
Speaker 1: meantime and soon they took to the hospital in the
Speaker 1: ambulance when it arrived. As it turned out, Ryan was
Speaker 1: telling thee hundred percent truth.
Speaker 2: That he was actually shot.
Speaker 1: He was shot in the eye. Well, I mean, he
Speaker 1: was telling the truth as best he could. The man
Speaker 1: had been shot in the face with a twenty two
Speaker 1: caliber bullet and he had suffered a horrific head injury.
Speaker 1: So of course his memory is going to be foggy.
Speaker 1: Of course his decision making wasn't very good.
Speaker 2: Well, the fact that he's even alive is insane.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, right, yeah, he's lucky enough that he survived
Speaker 1: and he was able to remember who shot him.
Speaker 2: On top of it, how on earth did he survive?
Speaker 1: Well, As it turns out, this is how the story unfolds,
Speaker 1: and I will answer that question here.
Speaker 2: Okay, thank you.
Speaker 1: So on December twenty third, Richie Carver twenty three years
Speaker 1: old and his father, Larry Carver fifty four years old,
Speaker 1: entered their home. Richie had been a roommate of the
Speaker 1: couple about a month prior to the incident, and apparently
Speaker 1: Ryan got in a bit of a confrontation with Richie
Speaker 1: and kicked him out of the house after Richie began
Speaker 1: hitting on his girlfriend Heather.
Speaker 2: Okay, that seems fair.
Speaker 1: Yeah, So Richie in turn decided he was going to
Speaker 1: plot some revenge and came back to the house gun
Speaker 1: in hand, with his dad tagging along with him. On
Speaker 1: that night, Richie and Larry tried to enter through the
Speaker 1: back glass sliding door of their place, but Ryan saw
Speaker 1: them through the glass trying to enter, and he tried
Speaker 1: to prevent them from getting in. As a struggle ensued,
Speaker 1: Ryan tries to tried to close the door on the
Speaker 1: two men, but Richie managed to reach his arm through
Speaker 1: the door before it was completely cold, closed while holding
Speaker 1: the gun and pointed it towards Ryan and pulled the trigger.
Speaker 2: Wow, this guy meant business.
Speaker 1: He shot Ryan two times point blank in the face,
Speaker 1: but due to the extreme angle, Ryan thankfully didn't take direct.
Speaker 2: Hits, but Heather did.
Speaker 1: We'll get to Heather in a moment. The first bullet
Speaker 1: went through the right side of his nose and exited
Speaker 1: on the left side, directly under his eye. It deflected
Speaker 1: against his bones and went back underneath his eye, lodging
Speaker 1: itself into his brain along with multiple skull fragments.
Speaker 2: Oh shit.
Speaker 1: The second shot hit just above his left eye and
Speaker 1: grazed him enough that it just deflected off his skull
Speaker 1: while still breaking off a bone fragment.
Speaker 2: That is lucky.
Speaker 1: Yes, these injuries left a total of four bullet holes
Speaker 1: on his face.
Speaker 2: Wow, I can't believe how lucky that is. I mean, grant,
Speaker 2: he still does have a bullet in his brain.
Speaker 1: Yes, from these shots, Ryan was knocked unconscious and dropped
Speaker 1: to the ground, and the two men were free to
Speaker 1: enter the home. Now the men were only there for Ryan. However,
Speaker 1: Heather was now a witness, so Richie stepped over Ryan
Speaker 1: as he presumed he was now dead, and proceeded to
Speaker 1: walk into the living room to find Heather cowering on
Speaker 1: the couch. Richie didn't hesitate. He walked right up to her,
Speaker 1: pointed the gun in her face, and pulled the trigger,
Speaker 1: then left brutal.
Speaker 2: Yeah, who the fuck is this? Like just a roommate, Like,
Speaker 2: I'm sorry about what kind of argument could I mean,
Speaker 2: you already said, but it's like that is not.
Speaker 1: A reason that some ridiculous pride factor in getting kicked
Speaker 1: out or something to do with I don't know, maybe
Speaker 1: he couldn't get Heather and Ryan had her or something.
Speaker 1: I don't know. All I know is this Richie guy
Speaker 1: douche canoe.
Speaker 2: Oh totally, and the fact that his dad is just
Speaker 2: there with with doing all of this, instead of being like,
Speaker 2: actually that's a terrible idea and like we're not gonna
Speaker 2: go and shoot your ex roommate in his girlfriend.
Speaker 1: Yeah, Instead he's like, oh, you want to go shoot
Speaker 1: some people up for an argument your son, Wow, Yeah,
Speaker 1: that's great parenting.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's crazy.
Speaker 1: Yeah. So after they left. It's not known how long
Speaker 1: it was before Ryan woke up, but for the next
Speaker 1: two days Ryan would have been left with massive pain
Speaker 1: in his head and a complete fog over his memory.
Speaker 1: He would have assumed Heather was sleeping on the couch
Speaker 1: and didn't want to disturb her, and most likely forgot
Speaker 1: about the shooting entirely. He would have probably gone to
Speaker 1: bed and woke up the next day, only to wander
Speaker 1: aimlessly about the house in a daze doing so until,
Speaker 1: of course, the wellness check was issued by police when
Speaker 1: they arrived to find the horrific scene on Christmas Day.
Speaker 2: Hey, that's actually really sad, hey, isn't it. You're just
Speaker 2: like wandering around your home aimlessly and like just think
Speaker 2: your girlfriend's sleeping.
Speaker 1: Yep. Oh my gosh, that's his state for two entire days.
Speaker 2: Gosh. It almost just takes me there like fly on
Speaker 2: the wall watching that, Like that's I.
Speaker 1: Couldn't imagine a being in those shoes though. What he
Speaker 1: was going through, what he was suffering, what he was
Speaker 1: feeling alone, incredibly painful. I'm sure what he was thinking,
Speaker 1: Oh my god, I can't even imagine what was going
Speaker 1: through someone's head like that, Like, what would does person's
Speaker 1: thought be with a bullet lodged in your brain for
Speaker 1: two days?
Speaker 2: Well, the fact that he even survived and stuff and
Speaker 2: was probably sleeping and stuff, and was like, it's almost
Speaker 2: amazing that he didn't.
Speaker 1: Just Oh, it's miraculous, you know, Yeah, it's incredibly miraculous
Speaker 1: as far as I'm.
Speaker 2: Concerned, survived two days of that, Yeah.
Speaker 1: With a bullet and skull fragments lodged in your brain.
Speaker 2: Oh my gosh.
Speaker 1: So for this reason alone, Ryan Waller is our badass
Speaker 1: of the day.
Speaker 2: Pretty amazing to survive. That's like a survival story right
Speaker 2: there and a half.
Speaker 1: Oh is it ever? Where am I here? Okay? Yeah?
Speaker 1: So Richie and Larry Carver were later identified and arrested
Speaker 1: in or sorry, We're arrested, and in two thousand and eight,
Speaker 1: both men were convicted of felony murder, burglary because after
Speaker 1: they did shoot them, they did steal some things.
Speaker 2: From the hall oh my gosh, of course.
Speaker 1: Aggravated assault and misconduct involving weapons. Richie Carver was sentenced
Speaker 1: to a term of natural life However, Richie's father a
Speaker 1: little bit of a different story.
Speaker 2: Okay, I thought you were going to say that Richie
Speaker 2: was like out or something.
Speaker 1: No, the case against Larry was based mostly on confessions
Speaker 1: he made to his wife, and after she invoked her
Speaker 1: marital privilege right and refused to testify against her husband
Speaker 1: in court, the case against him was all but dismissed.
Speaker 2: The dad.
Speaker 1: Yes, what so he got away scott free.
Speaker 2: Wow, I don't get that.
Speaker 1: There. I'm assuming Richie was not saying anything, not throwing
Speaker 1: his dad into the basically, yeah, so could have been
Speaker 1: just like no, it was just me blah blah blahlah blah.
Speaker 1: And there's nothing else you could say or do to
Speaker 1: prove that the dad was there except for the confessions
Speaker 1: he made to his wife, which the whole marital privileged thing.
Speaker 2: Well, what about and they can they not take the
Speaker 2: what's his name again, Richie or Larry? No, Heather's boyfriend
Speaker 2: Ryan Ryan? Can they not take Ryan's word at all?
Speaker 2: Or because like he was having some I don't know,
Speaker 2: a lot going on in his mind there, they couldn't.
Speaker 1: Maybe, I don't know. There's not a lot of information
Speaker 1: on this case. After the interrogation has taken place, yes,
Speaker 1: and there's probably a reason for that. But I'll touch
Speaker 1: on it here in a second.
Speaker 2: Oh does it just keep getting worse and worse here.
Speaker 1: We'll touch on this. Don't worry about it. But yeah,
Speaker 1: So Richie Carver is serving a natural life sentence.
Speaker 2: Toby never gets out basically.
Speaker 1: Pretty much, okay, ye, while his father is walking the streets, hopefully.
Speaker 2: Not murdering any other people.
Speaker 1: Yep. Now, as for Ryan, he was held in police
Speaker 1: custody for over six hours without any medical treatment, not
Speaker 1: even assessment that six hours that could be causing or
Speaker 1: continuing to cause irreversible brain damage and hemorrhaging.
Speaker 2: Yes, but he'd already spent two days, that's true.
Speaker 1: That's true, And he.
Speaker 2: Would have spent longer if there wasn't for this wellness check.
Speaker 2: But okay, that's true.
Speaker 1: But eventually, when they finally realized that they had made
Speaker 1: a mistake and found the bullet holes in his face,
Speaker 1: he was rushed to the hospital where he was where
Speaker 1: he underwent immediate emergency surgery. Ryan thankfully survived the injury
Speaker 1: and the surgery, but he didn't come out of the
Speaker 1: surgery the same. To save him, they had to remove
Speaker 1: a portion of his brain and at least one of
Speaker 1: his eyes. Some sources say both, and others say only one.
Speaker 1: Part of the reason for this is again because there's
Speaker 1: not a lot of information surrounding his case after the interrogation. However,
Speaker 1: Ryan sorry, however Ryan was doing afterwards. I did find
Speaker 1: a picture of him after his surgery and after his recovery,
Speaker 1: and to me it does look like he has his
Speaker 1: one natural eye saved and the other one has been
Speaker 1: replaced with a prosthetic. Okay, but other reports also say
Speaker 1: even though he still has his eye, he's still completely blind,
Speaker 1: so that's completely up for contention. However, that is my
Speaker 1: speculation that he has his one eye and one prosthetic,
Speaker 1: So just throwing that out there. So while he did survive,
Speaker 1: his life would of course not be the same. And
Speaker 1: ten years later, unfortunately, Ryan would succumb to a seizure
Speaker 1: and lose his life on the twentieth of January and
Speaker 1: twenty sixteen, a seizure that was directly correlated to the
Speaker 1: injury sustained and directly correlated to the lack of care
Speaker 1: he received. Whether the six hours that he was in
Speaker 1: custody before he would receive that care. That medical attention,
Speaker 1: if that would have made the difference is unknown. Now
Speaker 1: that's harsh. There is major speculation on why there is
Speaker 1: so little surrounding this case after the interrogation is because
Speaker 1: of the authorities not wanting much information out there, because
Speaker 1: of the oopsie that they did, because of those six
Speaker 1: hours without medical attention.
Speaker 2: Okay, but can I just say something really quick. You're
Speaker 2: like staring at someone for like six hours? Okay, okay,
Speaker 2: would you like literally not notice that they had bullet
Speaker 2: holes in their face? What were they looking at exactly?
Speaker 1: The bullet holes weren't super obvious bullet holes. They looked
Speaker 1: more like cuts and gashes. Apparently, even in the interrogation,
Speaker 1: the detective at one point asks him about how he
Speaker 1: got the gash or the cut on his nose, So
Speaker 1: he identifies the exit wound from one of the bullets
Speaker 1: as a cut. That's what it apparently looked like.
Speaker 2: But then just thinking about this too, this just popped
Speaker 2: in my head, like murder or not. I mean, he
Speaker 2: was in rough shape. They maybe should have had him
Speaker 2: looked at before he was brought and we're questioning.
Speaker 1: Hey, well, in that interrogation, you hear him say you
Speaker 1: should go to a hospital, and you also hear him
Speaker 1: say you shouldn't sleep because you most likely have a concussion.
Speaker 1: Yet they're still not treating him.
Speaker 2: Yet, We're still gonna sit you here and ask you
Speaker 2: a million questions exactly.
Speaker 1: That's the problem.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's not great.
Speaker 1: Put it this way. If you have an assailant stab someone,
Speaker 1: but they end up getting stabbed too, you still need
Speaker 1: to treat both individuals. Yes, So why didn't they treat
Speaker 1: him even though they know he has a concussion and
Speaker 1: they know he needs medical attention.
Speaker 2: Well, like even just thinking about the fact that he
Speaker 2: wasn't making any sense and all that jazz, like you think, okay,
Speaker 2: because even when you were going through it at first,
Speaker 2: it's like okay, like maybe they should just stop here,
Speaker 2: Like something's not not quite right.
Speaker 1: And when you watch that interrogation footage, it's almost immediate
Speaker 1: that you can tell something's not right.
Speaker 2: Okay, that's really sad.
Speaker 1: He's like putting his head down on the table. He's moaning,
Speaker 1: he's very uncomfortable, very disoriented. He looks like he's been
Speaker 1: awake for the last week, like he is in rough shape.
Speaker 2: Oh my gosh. So if I watched some of this.
Speaker 2: It's probably gonna just like destroy my heart a little.
Speaker 1: Yes, it's extremely obvious he needed medical attention.
Speaker 2: Dang.
Speaker 1: However, he was held in custody for six hours before
Speaker 1: he received it. I'm not saying that he didn't need
Speaker 1: to be questioned. I'm not saying it's not right that
Speaker 1: he was a suspect. I'm just saying they still need
Speaker 1: to get medical attention.
Speaker 2: Yeah, Nope, that's totally fair. But I also feel like, okay,
Speaker 2: that's six hours. It's six hours too long. But then,
Speaker 2: grant you, he was like two days just alone. So
Speaker 2: I mean there was a lot of damage. I haven't
Speaker 2: mentioned that earlier could have been done at that point.
Speaker 1: Yes, I'm not certain that six hours would make a
Speaker 1: difference in the end to save whatever portion of brain,
Speaker 1: or save his sight, or even save him from the seizure.
Speaker 2: But he still was not being treated like a human being. Yes,
Speaker 2: that needed help.
Speaker 1: He needed medical attention and it was not being provided.
Speaker 2: Yeah. No, that's not right.
Speaker 1: Yeah, so that is a wild case. That is the
Speaker 1: case of Ryan Weller and Heather Kwan. Yeah, that one
Speaker 1: I found on Reddit. It was under the subtext of
Speaker 1: cases that you that you've heard with crazy twists and
Speaker 1: turns or something like that.
Speaker 2: So well, that's just like a pile of shit. Really,
Speaker 2: that was a pile of shit. Wow, Okay, Like I mean,
Speaker 2: you did it well, but it's just like that's just sad.
Speaker 2: And I mean he got ten years, I guess, but
Speaker 2: it's like that's sad that he died in the end.
Speaker 2: And I wonder exactly how how those ten years of
Speaker 2: his life were he probably, like I mean, he had
Speaker 2: the sight and stuff, but I mean also a lot
Speaker 2: of trauma. I'm sure.
Speaker 1: Well, those ten years of his life. Last ten years,
Speaker 1: he did have to move back in with his parents
Speaker 1: because he was not able to completely look after himself.
Speaker 1: He was no longer dependent. He needed someone to assist
Speaker 1: for assisted living. Yeah, dang, So yeah that's the.
Speaker 2: Case, and Richie's dad is just living his best life
Speaker 2: probably yep. Well who knows. But yeah, don't love that.
Speaker 1: No, I don't love a lot of stuff about this case.
Speaker 1: But that's how it went down.
Speaker 2: Okay, Well that's interesting. I'm curious if like many people
Speaker 2: have heard this.
Speaker 1: Yeah, let us know if you've heard of this case before.
Speaker 1: Like I say, we're trying to find some more lesser
Speaker 1: known cases for you. You guys seem to be enjoying it,
Speaker 1: but don't count out those big ones, because we're gonna
Speaker 1: be doing those two. If you want to hear more,
Speaker 1: of course, you can listen to the rest of our
Speaker 1: episodes if you haven't already. You can find us on Patreon,
Speaker 1: where you can get exclusive episodes and some more behind
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Speaker 1: We even have a Reddit page, a web page. We
Speaker 1: got a lot of stuff going on. Look us up,
Speaker 1: we could agram. All the links are down below. You
Speaker 1: can even check out our.
Speaker 2: Merch we got We've just got it all. What do
Speaker 2: we not have?
Speaker 1: Right? And for the record, the merch is drawn.
Speaker 2: All by oh my gosh. Yeah, and hey, I'm like
Speaker 2: representing the merch right now.
Speaker 1: You're wearing it.
Speaker 2: I live in the shirt and you look good.
Speaker 1: Well. Thank you for being here and thank you for listening.
Speaker 1: We do truly appreciate it. If you're still listening this far,
Speaker 1: you're here to the very bitter end.
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Speaker 1: You are, and may we ask you go give us
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Speaker 2: us honestly, well done, Ben, thank you, Case, thank you,
Speaker 2: and until next time, stay wicked.