Speaker 1: What is up, fellow sick as I am Dan Valley
coming at you with another twenty twenty four twenty twenty
five NBA season look ahead with her Way, Fancier and
Smancier and more in depth than just regular old previews.
We're up to the Atlanta Hawks, which means for the
third year running, I'm going to get to speak with
Lauren L. Williams of the Atlanta Journal Constitution. She does
fantastic work over there covering this team. Be sure to
follow her on the Twitter machine that's at Williams Lauren Lle.
Her handle will be up on the screen if you're
watching on YouTube and you can find her stuff. I'll
include the links in the podcast and YouTube description as well.
We're gonna get into all things Atlanta Hawks. Really excited
to talk about her and recording this before we actually
get to chat this time, rather than after the fact.
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subscribe too hard with knocks across all platforms and tell
people about us if you have not already. And with
that we dive into the twenty twenty four twenty twenty
five Atlanta Hawks with Lauren el Williams. Lauren, welcome back,
Thank you for year three, Year three come back for
the Hawks? Look ahead, how are you doing? How are
you feeling? It's a three P for this this podcast.
Speaker 2: Now, I really love this podcast. It's really interesting to
share my perspective on what I've been able to observe
of this team, especially now that I've had a couple
of years of foundation to build off of it. I
think a lot has changed over the three years, which
is crazy to say, because who would have thought that
when we first did this podcast a few years ago
that they'd have a different coach. The Deshaunte Murray Tree
Young experiment would have been an abysmal failure, even though
the team themselves or itself doesn't think of it that way,
and the Hawks would somehow have a number one pick
on their roster. I if somebody told me all of
that sort of stuff would have happened the first year
this podcast, or at the first time I did this podcast,
I probably would have laughed.
Speaker 1: They've been and I was telling you this before we
got started. I just did the Clippers look ahead, and
in terms of teams that confused the hell out of
me the most. This is like back to back of
just absolutely me being confounded and the Hawks. Yeah, you're right,
like the three year arc of this team has been
Maybe the results really haven't been that different report, but
like just transactionally and functionally, like there's just so much
has changed. They've been I would say a violent rollercoaster
would be the best way to describe it.
Speaker 2: With continued mediocre results. But but I think we're starting
to sort of see maybe the shape of a plan
based on just some of the transactions that have over
the last couple of months, especially since the Dejonte Murray trade.
I'm sure we'll talk a lot more about this as
we go through the podcast, but you know, obviously they
have Dice and Daniels now, who along lanky guard six
' eight add size to the backcourt. They just drafted
a long lanky small forward in Zachary Resache. They still
have a long, lanky forward in DeAndre Hunter Jalen Johnson.
I think the only you know, area where you might
not necessarily say they have the prototypical size of what
has kind of been working in the league as far
as Biggs is at center, but they still have a
guy like Clint Capella who's six ' ten, Onyeco Congo
who backs him up, who's six ' nine. So they've
got they've got some size that they're starting to add in,
and I think that was a big key, especially when
you look at some of the things Hawks coach Quinn
Snyder talked so much about last season where they struggled
and size was just it. So maybe we're starting to
see the foundation of a plan and we'll see how
they continue to build on that.
Speaker 1: I want to start with the Dejonte Murray trade that
I think we all knew was. I think you and
I knew was coming when we talked last off season.
What did you make of the like the overall trade,
the decision to do it, and then of course just
the return that they prioritized in those negotiations.
Speaker 2: You know, I'm really glad that they decided to finally
pull the trigger on it. I think we were all
wondering why they didn't do it at the trade deadline,
particularly because of the injury to Tray, just how the
season was sort of unfolding. It seemed like it was
kind of a wash, like even if they got to
the playing tournament, it wasn't going to be a long
run in the postseason. But I think it was great
for him because he's able to raise his value a
little bit more and show that he is a good
fit for teams out there, and they ended up getting,
in my opinion, what I think is a solid return
for that. You know, I never anticipated that they would
have gotten as many first round picks as they did.
They ended up getting two out of them. One of
them is I think a conditional one. And then obviously
you can count a guy like Dyson Daniels as a
first round pick because he was only drafted what like
two years ago, twenty twenty one or three years ago,
so he's still young. I think his ceiling is still,
you know, pretty up there. And you know, with a
guy like Quinn Snyder and a front office that has
Kyle Korver, maybe there's some ways that they can help
kind of unlock the tools that maybe the Pelicans seem
to be unable to do. So I don't think the
return was that bad. I am a little bit confused
about why they brought in Cody Zeller. I know he
was part of a sign and trade and that was
kind of like an attacked on sort of deal, but
it just seemed weird.
Speaker 1: It's the new era of the Aprons, where teams want
to make sure that they're not pigeonholing themselves into, Oh,
we need to make sure that we're not taken looking
back more money than we're sending. It was one of
those the knicks with Shake Milton and McHale bridges, that
whole thing taking time to figure out true. I thought
the return was I think people probably viewed it against
what they gave up to get the Jean de Marie,
who who just couldn't h I did find it interesting, though,
because I thought that they I guess the Dyson Daniels
of it all I found interesting. Do you think like
this is someone that they looked at and they viewed
like pretty highly in talks, because it feels like they
might have whether it was from the Pelicans or another
team would have been able to find a deal that
was more had more first round equity, or was more
pick based. But it seems like, just to me my
read on it, based on how the trade unfolded, what
they got back was they looked at Dyson Daniels and
they treated him as like, this is better than a
first round pick for us.
Speaker 2: I don't know if it would if it's necessarily better,
that's how they viewed it. I think they just looked
at it more as it's comparable. You know, again, he
was a first round pick in twenty twenty one. Again
he's young. I think one of the big things that
they wanted to make sure is that this team better defensively,
especially when you look at where the Hawks kind of
ranked in defense last season. They were toward the bottom
of the league in almost every category, and so I
think in adding a guy who is sort of a
defense first guard that they could potentially pair alongside Trey Young,
you know, they're not necessarily losing that out when you
give up a guy like de jon Tey Murray. I
think the big thing is with Dyson is just where
his offense is and if he can generate enough that
could potentially make up for that loss. But yeah, I
think they see a lot of potential in a guy
that is Dyson. He's only twenty one years old, and
so he's a guy that, if you're looking timeline wise,
could potentially pair up with Kobe Buffkin, who at six
' four can continue to add size to the backcourt.
And so I think that it's kind of not necessarily
turning the timeline back, but maybe just realigning things in
a way that the dejon Tey Murray fit with Trey
Young may not necessarily have worked because they're only a
year apart, and so you know, you're speeding up the
timeline when you add a guy like dejonte in and
they just kind of weren't there yet.
Speaker 1: So what do you think impacted how they went about
this offseason more though the fact that they won the lottery, yeah,
or that they don't control their next three first round
picks after that lottery.
Speaker 2: You know, it's weird. I think it's a mixture of both.
And I think they were just trying to find ways
to maximize as much as they could out of not
only having the first overall pick this year, but also
you know, potentially recouping some of the picks that they
lost in the Dejonte Murray trade over the next you know,
couple of years. You know, there there's that hope that
they could potentially get that Lakers pick next year. They
still have that pick swap with san Antonio, so it's
a matter of how good is san Antonio gonna be
that maybe they have to actually make that swap because
you know, if san Antonio ends up having the higher
pick they made not want to swap with the Hawks
in that, you know. So I think that sort of thing,
both of those things, you know, not having total control
over their picks over the next few years, and the
fact that they were able to get a guy like
Zachary Resichet, who I think is kind of an underrated
first round pick based on some of the you know,
highlights that I was able to watch of him and
getting to know him and just how excited this team
is about what he can offer. I think the biggest
priority was just finding ways to get bigger, and I
think they were able to do that, adding some lengthy
wings that can be disruptive on the perimeter and surround
that with Trey and people who can still stretch the floor.
So I think it seems at least from what they
were able to do, it seems as though maybe they've
accomplished their plan. Will find out about how where they
stand with that on Media Day on Monday, So it'll
be interesting. I definitely want to see what their perspective
is on on what they feel they accomplished this offseason.
Speaker 1: And so my final question then about the offseason. So
you look at those pick commitments, So the pick's going
to go to San Antonio five and twenty seven outright,
and then that twenty six swap if they don't have
those obligations on the table. Do we hear more Trey
Young trade noise this past summer? Do you think.
Speaker 2: No? Because I kind of think his contract makes things
a little bit more complicated. I think there'd have to
be a lot more shuffling as far as what maybe
they were going to get back and return and whether
teams had the space in their books to make that possible.
I mean, he's making what forty three million dollars over
the next few seasons, and he has a player option
I believe in the last year of his contract, which
I think is three years from now.
Speaker 1: Yeah, twenty eight for that twenty six to twenty seven season,
so yeah, two full years left before the player option.
Speaker 2: So it's as good as Trey Young is. I do
think that his size still kind of makes teams a
little bit hesitant, especially with how much the league is
putting a priority on size over the last few seasons,
especially in the backcourt. You look at Luca six ' eight,
Anthony Edwards was what six four six five, So I
don't know, it's it's it's definitely a tough situation. But
I think just all of the things that Trey has
been able to do, how much offense he's been able
to generate for this team, how much of a face
he's become for the team, the city people do go
to the games for him, So I definitely think that
puts a value on the Hawks keeping him around a
little bit longer unless things change morale, you know, change
in a way that he no longer wants to be here.
Speaker 1: So with Trey Young, we had this discussion last year
when I was going through the questions that I'd ask
you about whether he's become underrated, and I actually think
it's been definitely that he is underrated. I don't know,
you know, you can Levy the same criticisms against him,
but you already mentioned it, like this is a tenth
pole offensive player. Do you like how much? Though I
guess not. I don't want to use the word blame,
but how much was he Do you think he gets
a raw deal when people say that his play style
can't be shifted, because I do think you look at
the way that they did play with de Jenttey Murray.
It wasn't perfect at times. I would still like to
see Trey Young cutting more off ball, running off more screens.
But he's also like you look at the percentage of
his shots that came off assists, like those upticked substantially
over the past two years, and we have seen him
like there have been there are even moments last year
like Trey Young to me is the type of player
who can do Can he be Steph Curry? No, I
don't think he's probably gonna be strong enough or even
big enough for that, but like he can fly around
off the ball and we've kind of seen it. Do
you think he gets a raw deal when people assume
that the biggest knock against him? Honestly, to me, now aside,
like people focus on the defense, but it almost feels
more frequently people are saying his play style is just intractable,
and I think I've reached the point where maybe we
haven't seen it in practice yet, but I also feel
like we've seen enough flickers of it to say that's
not true.
Speaker 2: I agree. I definitely agree with you that he flies
around the court. He has the speed for it. I
think with playmakers on the team like Jalen Johnson, things
are sort of unlocking a little bit more where you
have a point forward, if you will, And maybe with
Zacharyrisiche that also opens things up another playmaker that can
take some of the pressure off of Trey h to
create for others. And so I definitely think that that
part of his game is underrated, and I think, you know,
the partnership that he'll have with Quinn Snyder will for
sure continue unlocking that. I think, you know, we only
just started to see Quinn's systems sort of implemented last year,
because if you think about it, Quinn came in February
of twenty twenty three. There's not a lot of time
for him to implement his system. Systems take a time
or take some time to build, and so they're heading
into the second year of the I would like to
say Quinn Snyder era. It's not that I don't count
that sort of half season that he had, but because
he was just sort of getting to know the team,
it's hard to call it the Quinn Snyder era at
that point. So I kind of say that, you know,
this is the second year of it, and you know
he's still working with a lot of young players. I mean,
the average age of the Hawks is twenty four and wow, yeah,
and so Bogie and Clinn Larry Nance they tip the
scales a little bit, but a lot of their bigger,
biggest contributors are like twenty seven and under DeAndre Hunter
is sort of that older of the bigger contributors outside
of the three guys that I mentioned who are over
the age of thirty, which I know it's like weird
with us to say that, oh my gosh, over thirty
is so old, but obviously we know in the grand
scheme of the NBA, over thirty is practically ancient.
Speaker 1: But yeah, I'm such a the amount of time. I mean,
I'm a hypocrite in other areas, but I'm sitting here, ah,
that dude's turn in thirty three. Right, he's still two
years younger than you, and you're going.
Speaker 2: Like, I'm the same age as Bogey, and I'm like, Bogey,
you're you're an old guy. Dude, you're an old man.
Speaker 1: We're putting him out into pasture because thirty they just
get chipped or what is it off on like an ice,
like a block of ice. It's like out to see, like, bye,
that's nice knowing.
Speaker 2: You, thank you for thank you for your services. But yeah,
I mean, look, you look at sort of the guys
that I mentioned again, Dyson Daniels, who is sort of
the guy that you're expecting to be the starting TUE
besides tre twenty one Zacharyrisa shades you know again, And
it's debatable. I still haven't convinced myself that Quinn Snyder
is gonna pick the nineteen year old small forward over
the twenty seven year old veteran that he has on
the team to start out the season. I think things
can change, but Zach's only nineteen. He literally just turned
nineteen in April, so it's very hard for me to
see that he'll be the start. But I still think
he'll contribute greatly. I look at Trey Young just turned
twenty six, Jalen Johnson just turned twenty two. On Yeko
Coongu just turned I think twenty three or twenty four.
So again, it's a very young group of guys, and
I've sort of lost the point of the question that
you were asking, But I do think that yes, there
is I got it. No, there is room for Trey
to sort of move off the ball a little bit more,
especially as a guy like Jalen Johnson who's going into
his fourth year in the league, has a little bit
more experience, understands the speed of the game a lot
more after how much he played last year, can open
things up take some pressure off of him as the
primary ball handler.
Speaker 1: Do you notice did anything go into We saw Trey
Young's rim frequency and his free throw a ten ray
was still great, but it was not up to what
Tray Young has been doing. Did you notice anything different
or that specifically went into that dropping.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it just seemed like he wasn't getting a lot
of calls. I think there is something to be said
about his early career and sort of gaming the system
a little bit in his favor, and maybe I think
there's been a shift of maybe officials kind of swinging
to the other side of the pendulum, and they're not
sort of you know, baiting or taking the bait on
some of those moves that used to generate calls for
him in the past. So I think that's sort of
what it is, because he definitely looked to attack, He
looked to go downhill, he looked to you know, try
to fight through contact. But I think, you know, again,
I think it just swung to the other end of
the pendulum. But what can you do.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I was so I'm like, when I see these
things now, I just attributed to Oh, okay, the NBA like
kind of even admitted that they shifted the way that
things were being called. But he kind of even had
a downtick before then, and he was also absent a
lot of the time after they really made that shift
as well, because that was the first time he's dealt
with like a serious injury right in his career. If
I'm not yeah, I don't remember another one.
Speaker 2: I think the only big one that you can really
point to is UH Eastern Conference Finals when he sprained
his ankle over the ref's foot out of bounds. Yeah,
and he had to he was trying to I think
he tried to play through it or he might have
missed some time. But yeah, those are the only two
that really come to mind of major injuries to him.
Speaker 1: Aside from anything we've talked about. What is the biggest
story line for this team that you'll be monitoring throughout
next season?
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think there are probably not Probably there are
a lot of storylines with this team. Obviously, it's how
does Zachary res Chet adjust to the NBA? You know,
is he able to sort of have the type of
success that he was able to have at Jailborg in
the EuroLeague? You know, is he able to kind of
use his high basketball IQ to make some of the
cuts to the basket that you know, kind of drew
the attention of a lot of scouts in the pre
draft process. Is he able to knock shots down from three?
Can he stretch the floor? Is he able to add
some strength to him because he is kind of a
I use the word lanky before. He is very lanky.
He's definitely gotten a teenager's body, and so how he's
able to do that I'd love to see, you know,
the rise of Kobe Buffin He was injured a lot
last season, missed a lot of his rookie year, so
it would be interesting to see how he fits into
the rotation because when you look at sort of the
projected it's Trey Dyson, DeAndre Jalen Clint. As you're starting five,
it's likely gonna be either Bogie Bogdan Bogdanovic or Onyeko
Congo as the first off the bench. Probably go with
Bogie just so that you know, you have that sort
of minute or so for Trey to kind of sit
about midway through the first quarter, and then he usually
comes back toward the end and then the other guard
sits down. I kind of project Kobe would kind of
be the backup point guard in that sort of rotation.
It's just a matter of right because they want to
see the ball in his hands a bit more, and
so that's kind of how I anticipate things going. Obviously
you have to have Zachary orsa che in there, but
I would say he's probably like top eight top nine
in the rotation. And then the next storyline is, of course,
you know Clint and he's on the final year of
his contract. I'm sure again, I'm sure we'll talk about
it a little bit more, But like, do we finally
see the rise of Onieko congu as, you know, the
guy who is the heir apparent for you know, should
the Hawks decide not to resign Clint, which is very
hard for me to see them doing, just because again
we touched on it before. He's on the other side
of thirty, which is usually not a great thing for
free agent centers, and so he has sort of been
a guy that has taken slow starts to the season,
and then it's like post All Star break he kind
of like breaks out a little bit more and then
you see the old Clint that a lot of people
were so used to seeing in Houston, and then you're like, oh, yeah,
you really should be a starting center. You really earned
that spot there. So I think those are the three
big things. Obviously, you know, how does Trey Young adjust
to the new rotation and if again, like we touched on,
is he able to move off the ball a little
bit more? And then of course how does the defense fare,
because that's just something that's not synonymous with the Hawks.
It's in fact, it's like usually not the first thing
you think about when it comes to the Hawks. So
I think they've gotten better defensively, just based on the
pieces that they've added, But I'd love to see how
the reality stacks up to what's on paper.
Speaker 1: Latching on to the Zachary recichet of it all. So
it sounds it does sound like from a well no
more as you go through the media days in the
training camps, but it sounds like your expectation would be
that they're gonna bring him, at least in the beginning
of the season along a little bit more slowly, that
he's not yessarly going to be baptized by fire.
Speaker 2: It's it's just really hard for me to see that
because based on everything that we saw last season with
Quinn Snyder's rotations, and then in addition to his experience
with Utah, it's a very very rare that he gives
a significant amount of minutes to his young players. Maybe
early in his tenure in Utah things might have been different,
obviously with Rudy and Donovan Mitchell and that sort of core,
But it's just really hard for me to see them
going that direction, especially because they have a guy like
DeAndre Hunter, who, yes, we know typically does better coming
off of the bench, but he's also making you know on.
Speaker 1: A twenty million bucks exactly.
Speaker 2: He's like making twenty one million dollars a season, So
it's it's just hard for me to see them, you know,
justifying a bench player making that sort of money. Yeah,
I think Quinn very much prioritizes development, and I think
the Hawks would want to put Zach in the best
position possible, and potentially bringing him off the bench is
the sort of route that I that I see them going.
Speaker 1: Where do you think as a rookie he can have
the biggest impact on this team?
Speaker 2: Honestly, I think his biggest impact will probably be shooting
and defensively. I know that's so cliche, but.
Speaker 1: I really think rookies have gotten better defensively. It seems
like and he I don't know if you when you
were covering Summer League, there was a I can't remember
which game it was, but he gave an interview afterwards
and he like harped he had a pretty good He
harped on his defense afterwards, and I'm like.
Speaker 2: He was like, I didn't play I didn't play nearly
as well defensively as I wanted to. Yeah, it was
like the first game.
Speaker 1: I was like, that kid fucking gets it, and that
made me just a little bit more excited for him
than I had been, like just because and I've probably
been like by Osmosis polluted by these people just saying like, oh,
he's not going to be a star, he's not going
to be a star, like the people who watched more
college than I have. Yeah, to have someone focus on
their defense like that, it made me excited to be like,
especially perimeter guys when their rookies are normally just not
I'm just like whatever, but I'm very interested to see
if that would and would that be a way for
him to carve out like if he's playing.
Speaker 2: Time, Absolutely absolutely, I think that's the I think that's
one of the big things that Quinn Snyder sort of values,
particularly with young players. Again, it seems so cliche, but
if they can make an impact on the defensive end,
then they truly do earn more minutes. You sort of
saw that with a guy like Kobe Buffkin last season
when he was healthy and he could play. He had
some really great minutes against Kyrie Irving when the Hawks
played Dallas in March last or this past year. And
then you look at a guy like v Crachi, You
look at a guy like Garrison when the Hawks were
going through so many injuries and they had to go
sort of toward the end of the bench, those guys
really did earn minutes because of how well they were
playing defensively. And so for Zach because he is a
guy that can be super versatile. He can guard some
of the bigger point guards, shooting guards as well as
you know, the guys at the three. Maybe if it's
a slower four, I could see him maybe having some success.
But because of his size and length in his reach
and his ability to disrupt things with that and his
awareness of things, I think he can have some success
defensively as he gets used to the speed of the game,
and if he's able to knock shots down, heck yeah,
he's going to earn some minutes. So I definitely think
that's sort of how the competition over the course of
the year might go. If you're trying to make a
case between him and DeAndre Hunter, if it's just he's
playing better defense then Dre then maybe then you start
to wonder, well, why isn't he's starting yet, if you
know Snyder's still going with a usual lineup. But yeah,
I think the biggest way he can make an impact
is defensively and of course shooting one of.
Speaker 1: The not knocks. But I guess it forms of skepticism
with him. People have wondered is he gonna be able
to create on the ball or do enough on the ball? One?
Have you like from what you've seen of him? Do
you think that there's more there to explore? And two?
And I think this is the more important question. How
does this team even tap into that to try and
develop that when you're also juggling Okay, it's not just
we have Trey Young, but until they act otherwise, like,
this is the team that's kind of functioning on a
semi immediate timeline. So how do you kind of juggle this?
And it might speak to his overarching role on this
how do you juggle the development of the number one pick?
Like this isn't just someone you drafted the back end
of the lottery, but yeah, number one pick with people
can make their jokes about the Hawks, but they are
trying to win basketball games, right.
Speaker 2: Oh for sure. I think the thing is development has
been something that they've harped on wanting to do. You know,
especially at the start of last season, you could kind
of see it, not just with some of the young guys,
and like the Kobe Buffkins and the Mogays who were
still able to have some growth even though they were
dealing with injuries. You know, their two way guy, Seth Lundy,
he was able to have some progress. I mean, he
spent most of the time in the G League, but
he was doing well enough in the G League that
when they had that initial injury to Jalen Johnson, they
brought him up with the rest of the team and
had him play. And so I think there is definitely
room for that growth. I think, you know, there's no
better guy like Quinn Snyder to kind of help with
that sort of thing, especially if they're bringing him off
the bench. You see it all the time when Quinn
is coaching. As soon as somebody comes off the court,
he's going to talk to them almost immediately and he's
explaining things and then they sort of go on their way.
So I think this staff is very committed to that
sort of thing, and so it's it's definitely going to
be a journey. But I think in terms of his
development on the ball, I was pretty impressed with some
of the self creation created shots that he was able
to make, and on top of that, he found some
pretty great looks for his teammates at Summer League. Some
of them didn't go down, but he is such good
court vision that he can find, you know, some really
cool passes behind the back. I don't think he's gonna
nut mega guy, but he has some moves to him
that I think, especially as he's playing with some of
these more elite players and not just a summer league roster,
that we can probably see some fancy moves. And obviously
with Trey there's gonna have to be a balance with that.
But if we're talking about them developing some of Trey's
off the ball skills, putting the ball in the hands
of your rookie or even again a guy like Jayalen
Johnson is probably the way that you want to do
it and experiment, especially at the beginning of the season. Obviously,
as the season progresses and you know, they see where
they are in the standings, things might change and they
might buckle down on some of the things that we're
working and experiment less. But I definitely think at the
beginning of the season, well probably we might see a
few more experimental things happening, especially with putting in the ball,
putting the ball in the hands of someone other than Trey. Again,
you have Dyson Daniels as well, who can create shots.
And so I think the thing that Quinn Snyder's system
are predicated on is ball movement and being able to
have as many guys who can create is ideal for that.
And so I just named three others other than Trey
Young who can who can do that. We haven't even
mentioned Bogie yet.
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's interesting.
Speaker 1: Because they also have Dyson Daniels, who is really right
now can't score outside a float range prasistently. How do
you anticipating them using him on offenses? Is this someone
who will get a crack at kind of those backup
point guard reps.
Speaker 2: Then, yeah, I think we'll probably see a rotation. Not probably,
I think that we might see a rotation sort of
similar to last season in that Dyson kind of employs
the role of the de jon Te Murray that when
Trey goes to the bench, he shifts to the one,
Bogie shifts to the two when he comes on to
the court. But then you can also play them a
little bit interchangeably, because Bobie did play predominantly the one
in the Olympics, and so again, I think that this
team has added guys who have a lot more versatility
in their offensive game. Maybe Dyson in terms of shooting
frequency and accuracy, may not necessarily have a ton of versatility,
but he could still pass the ball.
Speaker 1: I'm obsessed with him because he is really good. Feel
like the floater is like it goes in like a
good amount of the time, and he's just he's suffocating defensively.
It's just I guess, if you're going to generate more
off ball movement and you have the shooting like he's
someone who I guess could benefit from playing off of Young.
But I look at him as maybe the guy if
you're and you already mentioned it, if you're gonna stagger
Trey Young from someone or separate their minutes a lot,
it feels like Dyson Daniels might be the guy to
do that.
Speaker 2: For sure, because I think Bogie is a guy that
would benefit so much from a guy who has such
solid court vision as Dyson Daniels, you know, being able
to turn and look for those kickouts. I think that's
one of the big things that the Hawks needed a
little bit more of is just finding Bogie. I think,
let me look, I have to double check. But as
far as Bogie, he was shot the ball really well
to start the season last year, and as his usage
went up with the injuries, it kind of was a
lot less accurate. And so if if they're able to
play guys like Dyson and Zach, even DeAndre Jalen if
Onyeka can hitch threes a bit more consistently, because he
was knocking a few down on some of the attempts
that he made, he he just has to be a
lot more efficient with it. They have quite a few
options that they won't need to play Bogey nearly as
many minutes as they did last year. I mean, he
averaged thirty point four, which is a career high, and
he is the type of guy that sort of benefits
from playing about twenty five minutes or less. So, you know,
so long as they stay healthy, you know, maybe Dyson
gets a little bit more efficient with his outside shooting. Zach,
you know, starts off maybe not necessarily the best, but
he grows into his role quickly. They won't have to
play Bogie as long, but Bogie will benefit from a
guy like Dyson Zachary who makes he's on time on
target passes and he is such a quick trigger that
those are the type of guys that you want. But
definitely Dyson, I've I think I've always been impressed with
his basketball IQ and like you said, his feel for
the game. So it'll be interesting to see how he's
able to work with the shooter like Bogie and how
much the Hawks can take advantage of that.
Speaker 1: Now you mentioned all those names, and it makes me
wonder like who among these three who they They made
contributions at different points of the season last year and
Vic Cragie was just kind of a revelation. But between
Vic Cragie and Kobe Buffkin and Garrison Matthews, like one
or two of those dudes is probably gonna fall by
the wayside when you kind of look at how this
rotation is shaking out. So do you have any like
what would be your expectations for and you mentioned that
they still kind of view Kobe Buffkin is important and
as someone who would he's six for build out of
the draft is Oh, he gets to and finishes at
the rim, he can play off the ball, and he
defends his butt off. It's kind of like, well, like
that feels like the guy that needs to get reps.
But is he going to be the best of those three?
You don't necessarily know, like how like what is the
push and pull they are gonna be And if you
had to guess, like which one or two of them
is gonna maybe suffer the most in terms of their
minutes played based off again all those other names that we've.
Speaker 2: Just talked about, I definitely think Veeet Crachie and Garrison
Matthews will probably suffer from, you know, the influx of
versatility that they added into the rotation. But I think
of the two of those guys that I mentioned, Vet
might end up inching out Garrison a little bit more.
Again because of size, six ' eight, has a great
feel for the game, and so because of that length
and size, he's a bigger body that you can inject
at the one, two or three. So so I think
Garrison probably suffers the most. Then I would say is
sort of the next one that would probably fall to
the wayside. But definitely I see Kobe kind of being
inserted into the lineup, particularly if Quinn plays eight to
nine guys. Well, particularly if he plays nine guys.
Speaker 1: What do you or I'll frame it this right. What
should we believe in more from what we saw of
vic crag last year. Is it the fact that the
three pointers were going in. Yeah, with the body of
work that he delivered defensively where it's oh, he's just
like held his own against Jason Tatum. Yeah, that's just
like as you any six eight two. I feel like
when people talk about Vic Crachy and even stand out,
it's no, the dude is big.
Speaker 2: He I forget sometimes how tall Vick Crazy is and
then I stand beside him and I'm like, oh, you're
You're a very large human being, especially because he is
such a babyface, nicest dude, just one of the I
can't say enough great things about v And I think
he's the guy that would benefit the more minutes he
gets to play. And we saw that as the season
went on, or as you know, those thirteen games that
he started went on, and you know, the Hawks valued
in him and valued him enough to convert him from
that two way at the end of last year to
a standard contract this year.
Speaker 1: So yeah, but they got in time for the.
Speaker 2: Not in time for the plan. But I think we
could clearly say that, see they had marking, they got
the number, that's they got the numb exactly. So I
definitely think that he's somebody that they value, especially because
of his size. But also again he is a little
bit underrated defensively, but I think he still has so
much room to grow. He's still young. I think people
forget that he's only what like twenty two, twenty three,
so you know, the ceiling is still there. I mean,
he he had, he has a good body of work.
I was surprised that okay, see, you know, didn't factor
him into their larger plans after you know, the twenty season.
So hopefully he's that diamond for the Hawks. I think
he has it all. He can shoot, he can he
can pass the ball. He he's solid defensively.
Speaker 1: I think that's what I trust too. More, by the way,
is I trust the shooting for the defense over the shooting.
I need to see more of that. And the passing
is interesting because and I did go back and watch
more of him in preparation of this podcast. He feels
like he'll I want to see him get minutes on
this team when they have more of the ball handlers
out there, because I don't trust him to do that
like there was just too many turnovers when they were
having a run pecking rolls. It just it wasn't great.
But it feels like he could be a very good,
like connective passer. Oh absolutely, and so like if you
can get him in the right lineups, that's why I'm hoping.
I think of the three, I'm highest on Kobe buffin
long term maybe, but I think I still want to
see the most of it crazy right now.
Speaker 2: I think he is an exciting player and he has
some flash. I don't know if you remember that Pat
like that play that he sort of uh rescued that
it's still burned in my mind, I except I forgot
who they were playing against. But it was like he
initially passed into cappella or yeah capella, and the past
got bobbled or something, and then he picked it up
and saved the turnover and like hit it behind the
back and then went to the hoop, and it was
just like if he could do more of that stuff,
like that's to me, it's like justification for him getting
some more minutes. Yeah, you know what I'm talking about.
Speaker 1: Was that it was like a wrap around at the
bit was it the Pelicans? I think it was. I
can't remember it, but I think it was like I
remember the kind of the broken play and then it
was like almost a wrap around pass but directly at
the basket, which you didn't necessarily say yeah.
Speaker 2: And he ended up making but he ended up making
the layup, so it didn't end up being like a
full wrap around pass. It's like he wrapped it around himself.
Speaker 1: And then oh no, I think I think I'm thinking
of a different place. Okay, more on the play that
I'm thinking of someone else did.
Speaker 2: It's just I think I think he's a diamond in
the rough, and I wanted to get more minutes because
I really do think the more he plays, the more
he develops, and then the better he just gets. So
it's a win win for everybody, isn't it.
Speaker 1: What were your when he was healthy and from the midime,
So what we're kind of just your biggest takeaways or
impressions of Kobe Bufkins game. Yeah.
Speaker 2: I touched on it a little bit already with the
defense he played as a rookie. Again, you don't always
see that sort of you know, what's the word of
dedication to that side of the game, But he was
and I hate to use the cliche he was locked in.
He was a big body, he was disruptive. I just
want to see him be a lot more efficient in
terms of his shooting and then obviously just making a
few better decisions. But that's only gonna come with time.
He's still really young. Just turned twenty one. Yeah, he
just turned twenty one. So I just want to see
him be a little bit of a better decision maker.
I think he could, like he can pass the ball,
but I think there are times when he's creating his
own shots, it's like you could see him still thinking
in slow motion a little bit where it's like, Okay,
I'm I'm going to shoot now, and it gives obviously
defense time to recover and contest the shots. Or I'm
going to go inside and there's just like that split
second where it's like, Okay, go up for it, but
he doesn't and it allows people to collapse the paint
or Yeah. So it's just making more quick decisive reads
for himself, not just as he's passing the ball, because
I thought he made some solid decisions when he was
creating for other people.
Speaker 1: Jalen Johnson may have won Most Improved Player last year,
if he had, if he hadn't gotten hurt names, Yeah,
what stood out the most to you about how he
played last season? And then what's kind of one area
of development you're still going to be monitoring this year.
Speaker 2: Yeah. I think the thing that I'll probably monitor most
is just how can you stay healthy? Is he because
sometimes when you know he plays, it's like he's just
going full force. There's only one speed when it comes
to Jalen Johnson, which is great except when you're rolling
your ankle two or three times toward the end of
the season when the Hawks really need you. But no,
I just I do think that that motor is really
what generates so much energy for this team because the
Hawks really were at their best when he was playing.
I think they started the season six and four in
their first ten games, and then it's like after he
went down, they lost, like, you know, the next fourteen,
not the next fourteen, but the majority of the next fourteen.
I can't remember the exact number. I think there were
like four and ten or something like that. So he
is sort of the X factor in that team just
because one we talk again, we talk about his size,
but just because he can get them out in transition
so quickly.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: It it really changes the speed the pace of their
game because sometimes when you look, they get somebody gets
a rebound and he's already gone after steel gone, and
he's just very splashy. I mean, you can't think of
Jalen Johnson and not think of his dunk on Austin Reeves,
his two him catching two bodies on I think it
was Josh hart and Isaiah Hartenstein. He dunked on Chet,
so I think he wants to dunk on Victor. I
don't think he's gotten to play the Spurs because he's
been hurt, or maybe he played the Spurs when they
came to Atlanta on Martin Luther King Day. But yeah, so,
I mean he's just always looking to catch bodies and
that's what's gonna fill the seats. People love seeing dunks,
people love seeing you know, explosive plays, and he's going
to deliver on that. And I think the other thing
that I think will really entice people to him as
if he can shoot the ball more efficiently. We saw
a little bit of that in stretches, but you know,
they're just some games he's shooting it really well, and
then some games it's just not great. So he can
consistently knock those shots down. You know, he for sure
is going to be in the conversation again for most.
Speaker 1: Approved you mentioned the dunks. He's definitely someone who has
a list of people he wants to dunk on. I
know players are asked and then they have to I
was like, no, that thing is framed and laminated.
Speaker 2: And I think one of the broadcast the okay see
broadcasts when he dunked on Chet after the dunk, because
it's showing the slow motion replay and him running away
and you can see him talking to bench like I
told y'all, I was gonna dunk on that. And I
won't say what he said, but he definitely knows who
he wants to get.
Speaker 1: I think one of the things that stood out to
most of me for him is because you mentioned the
stuff in transition, he can play. It's touch full throttle.
I don't know if I appreciated what his ceiling could
be when things slowed down and offensively, he was still
able to make plays. What I really don't have a
feel for, and I'm wondering, if you have a better
insight into this, what is he defensively.
Speaker 2: Honestly, I would like to think of him as a
little bit of a Swiss army knife. I mean, he's
got the length, he's got great court awareness, he's very disruptive.
He averaged, let's see, averaged like one point something steals
last year, so he can get in those pockets and
be pretty disruptive against other people one point two, which
was like the third tied for the third most on
the team per game. And so I think just because
he's able to get into people, take up space, and
just really be a pest on the ball, he's great.
And then on top of that, off the ball, again
that court awareness, being able to keep a constant eye
on where the ball is, he can cut off people
driving to the baskets, you know, slod on with some
of those blowbys. So I definitely think he's got a
lot of tools in his belt, and I think it's
only made better based on who he's sort of surrounded by,
and in honest and all, honestly, I think he's at
his best when he's surrounded by Clint and DeAndre. So
it'll be interesting to see, how, you know, having a
rookie beside him who's a little less tested might be.
He does great with on Yaco Congo because they're boys,
so they have a really great chemistry that they just
sort of they're just perfect in sync together. So again,
it'll be interesting to see with some of these new
players and how you know, having a guy like Dyson
Daniels in the rotation makes his life easier and just
helps him take up more space.
Speaker 1: Should we or would you expect him to get an
extension or do you think the combination of the Hawks
are a very you know, cost conscious team on top
of the fact that he last year was his first
full season, playing a bunch of minutes and he still
kind of finished it hurt. Is this more likely than
to leak out into a restrictive reagency.
Speaker 2: No, I think he's a guy that they prioritize. I
think one, they were invested in his development, especially in
sending him to the G League, which he embraced fully,
and the fact that I think he's sort of on
target as far as his development. I mean, he was
taking what twenty in the draft, what was it, twenty
twenty one, So it'll be again, they're going to be
an interesting position because they have him, they have Dyson
to also think about and then they also have to
start considering guys like Kobe or Zach, you know, just
getting their ducks in a row as far as who
they're planning on sort of resigning. But I definitely think
he's a top priority for this, and I think, you know,
the number we'll see is gonna be sort of commensurate
with what he deserves, particularly because of how much value
he had for that team last year. I mean, they did,
they just were not as good without him.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm wondering if just because they could in theory
be somewhat flexible next summer, if they try to do
the thing where they want to work with his smaller
cap hold and don't extend him. I think, regardless of
when he gets paid, his deal is gonna I think
some people are gonna get sticker shock from his deal,
kind of what we saw with when Devin Vessel signed
his extension with the Spurs, because I'm still not sure,
I mean, I'm not even sure I fully realize how
good he is, and so I think people that aren't
necessarily watching the Hawks every day or following them don't
understand like how good, especially on offense. I think a
lot of people view him as just this kind of
like quaint play finisher, and last year specifically, he just
showed like so much more than that. So if you
told me that he gets I don't know. I don't
think get I'll be shocked if hegeinst the max for sure,
But me, it's like.
Speaker 2: I don't think you get the I.
Speaker 1: Mean it's I mean, if you're him and you look
at what you did last year, I know you finished
the money that a manual quickly got.
Speaker 2: I know it's different they see, but a million I
was gonna say I could see twenty seven to thirty,
thirty one, thirty two, I wouldn't That wouldn't shock me.
Speaker 1: That feels about right, Yeah, like he'll be he'll be okay. Yeah,
so what's going on up front? Yeah, you've already mentioned
Clin Copella. This is now you even expect it sounds
like Copella to continue to start, which I think makes
sense because this team is it's big with its perimeter players.
But you look at just okay if you want to
get into the center of it all. I mean, Larry
Nance Junior is good, on Yacha Kungu is good. They're
undersized for actual bigs. And then of course you have
Clint Capella, Like, what is the plan here both short
and long term for them upfront?
Speaker 2: That's the biggest mystery to me, honest, But I do
think that one because they've obviously already extended on Yeko Coongu.
He is sort of their center of the future. I
just it's hard for me to see Clint Capella coming back.
I could see them potentially drafting a center, you know,
in twenty twenty five, especially when you look at some
of the guys that they were looking at in this
year's draft. You had Sar, you had Clinging, you know,
two really big centers, and of course you know, if
they're lucky again and somehow get the number one pick,
if especially if they're able to get that Sacramento pick,
or I.
Speaker 1: Don't even think can they They can't feasibly. I guess
the Lakers pick that they have is not protected. I
need because their own pick is headed to San Antonio.
Speaker 2: Their own pick is hanging it head into San Antonio.
I think Sacramento is protected one through one through twelve.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, the Lakers one is unprotected. So they need
the Lakers to just.
Speaker 3: Be absolutely exactly yeah, I mean, hey, there is there
is a world in which Sacramento could be really good
and you know, somehow do really well in the West.
Speaker 1: There is a world I think that will convey. I
think they just they'll probably end up with two first
round picks next year, would be my prediction.
Speaker 2: And if they can somehow magically end up with one
and I gained.
Speaker 1: The Lakers to be really bad that they need Lebron
to request the trade of Golden State that everyone's been
waiting for, and that's that's their pathway to it.
Speaker 2: Who knows, but I do think that, you know, they
could potentially draft a center and you know, maybe or
maybe they sign one of the many that are available
in free agency next year. So yeah, it'll let's see
who's who's available. What centers. Yeah, there there are a
lot of centers. I mean, maybe is there Rudy Gobert
reunion with Quinn? I don't. I do not foresee that
happening at all, Like I just don't. But yeah, there
there are quite a few centers who are unrestricted free
agents next summer that you know, or even even if
they go into to restricted free agency, they could totally
kind of compete for so who knows, maybe we'll see
them bring Bruno Fernando back. He seems to return every
you know, one to two years.
Speaker 1: Yeah, we love.
Speaker 2: Bruno over here. We love Bruno Fernando. So yeah, maybe
maybe we see them, you know, sign some guys in
free agency, but yeah, I definitely foresee to go back
to their original point on Yeco. Congo is just sort
of the guy of the future. Last year, we saw
him play a lot more minutes coming off of the bench.
Sometimes we ended up just seeing him closing out those games.
And so that's to me says that they're developing him
to eventually sort of slide into that starting role when
Clint's no longer with the Hawks.
Speaker 1: Is there any concern about because they were not a
great defensive rebounding team last year, and they were pretty
good when Clint Capela's on the court. But you look
at m Yuka Congo, who's six ' nine, is there
any concern about if you view him as like kind
of your long term center or big of the future
in them. And I mean, you're gonna run in the
same issue even with Larry Nance. So when you're getting
into those secondary lineups or just certain lineups, like, is
there anything they can do to like buoy the defense
of rebounding when you are playing quote unquote a little
bit smaller at your spender spot. Is there certain lineups
that make it like oh and Yuka Congo should really
play with like these one or two guys.
Speaker 2: I definitely think I touched on it again. I think
he definitely thrives beside Jalen Johnson. Again, he's another guy
that attacks, getting those sort of defensive rebounds. You know,
maybe we see a guy like Zachary Resichet sort of
step up a little bit more and that's a way
that he earns minutes on the floor. Dyson is a
great rebounder as a guard, so that's another reason I
think they prioritize bringing him into the rotation. So yeah,
I mean it's definitely hard, especially when you're going up
against the Sixers, the Knicks, Milwaukee. I'm trying to think
of obviously Denver, Charlotte. They've struggled against Charlotte, but there's
a world where they can do pretty well. We know that,
you know, a team like Miami isn't the best at
offensive rebounding, and so that's sort of where they can
maybe thrive and make up some of that ground. But yeah,
it's really hard for me to see or envision a
lineup that's gonna really knock it out of the park
to mix metaphors in terms of you know, out rebounding
a team on the defensive end.
Speaker 1: Uh And again I need they could addressed down the line.
Just yeah, I'm fascinated to see.
Speaker 2: If you think that's really fascinating now that I think
about it, I think definitely.
Speaker 1: It's interesting because so many people and I understand why
it's well, Yako Kungo was just like he's the center
of the future, and it's like, well, then you're gonna
run into this issue. It seems like a lot of
the time. So I'll be curious to see. I mean,
they do have wings. I guess who you can hope
to get like Bogie can rebound some. But just like
of the new wings, like can you count on Dyson
Daniels or Zachary reached to provide those bumps.
Speaker 2: When you look at cleaning the glass, Dyson was pretty
up there. I thought, with you know, field goal, the
defensive rebounding percentage.
Speaker 1: And I mean that those might be too that you
could explore playing together, especially if Kungu is gonna be
taking more threes this year, so you're not as worried
about the floor spacing there.
Speaker 2: The fifth percentile uh for defensive defensive rebounding.
Speaker 1: The eight ninety fifth Is that what he said?
Speaker 2: Eighty fifth?
Speaker 1: Oh wit, that's still really that's higher than I would
have guessed.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, So I was just looking at this the
other day, so I was thinking, So now that you
mentioned it, I definitely think you know, trying to again,
it's similar with you know, insulating Trey with as much
size in the backcourt. I think it's a similar thing
of just trying to insulate on Yeko with as much
size on the outside to help in some of those battles,
especially like you said, if he's taking some of those threes,
he can draw the center out a little bit more
and maybe that opens up some things for other guys
to box out guys and they can get rebounds. Who knows.
Speaker 1: So what is in the I mean is my tie
into the rebounding discussion we just had a little bit.
But when you're looking at their defense overall, what is
your I guess where do you think that they are
now built to improve the most defensively with the roster
maneuvering following.
Speaker 2: For sure on the wing because of just how much
they sort of added guys in again, I talk about
those lengthy guys, that's somewhere that they struggle, and again
that sort of helps out a guy like DeAndre Hunter
who's often tasked with defending your DeMar Derozans or defending
I'm trying to think who else I've remembered him historically
really being a kawhi.
Speaker 1: They've all just because of his body type, he's needed
to defend these guys that he probably has no business.
Speaker 2: But now that they've added in again a guy like
Dyson Daniels, you know, he has a lot more help,
hopefully if he can stay healthy. From Jalen Johnson, I
really do think that's sort of where they bolstered that,
that's where they struggled a lot. It's sort of on
the perimeter and slowing guys down and just making sure
that they don't have you know, I think with Dyson
and Jalen they'll sort of help with some of those
blowbys and allow DeAndre maybe some time to recover and
get to guys and maybe stop them or give Clint
some time to get into a position to maybe block
the shot or something like that. So that's sort of
what I envision is sort of the improvement of where
they've really gotten better defensively. I think what I'm interested
to see is how they handle transition defense, because that
was just awful.
Speaker 1: Ye if they play it, I think that will be
the improvement is if they play transition defense, there's like
the bar fell but everything you actually outlined now not
to be that with me being an asshole though, just
like when you look at the personnel that you've just
gone through and broke down, Like if you have Dyson Daniels,
even Vic Cragy Zactary reached the Shay, we know at
least we'll get back. But I think the Hawks, like
Achilles Heel over the past few years, if you watch
them after Missus, it's like, why are so many guys
out of frames at the other end transition and now
it feels like they might just have more guys who
will be back on defense, which is to battle. It's
low hanging fruit, but it's god it up and I
think you guys could probably improve by like a few
spots for sure.
Speaker 2: I agree. I think I definitely think that's sort of
the big thing is just are they able to get back?
And so we'll definitely be watching it and maybe they'll
end up being the same Oldhawks. We'll see are.
Speaker 1: You ready to enter the cookie cutter portion of the
pop ways?
Speaker 2: I love cookies.
Speaker 1: Okay, So looking at the roster today before seeing any games,
what do you bill as their biggest need?
Speaker 2: We talked about it just a bigger center, and as
somebody who really does like oh Nico Congu, I think
that's just when I hadn't anticipated that they would have
added more size to the lineup. That's sort of what
I would have wanted. Like, I was really intrigued by
the idea of sar and clinging, just because you can
never have too many seven footers your lineup. So I
think they're definitely going to have a challenge at the five.
But maybe that's again, maybe that's the part of the plan,
is to go out and draft a seven footer. I'll
have to double check who's in the class of twenty
twenty five.
Speaker 1: But between they'll betray young and then just a bunch
of dudes between six to six and nine, and that's
how they're gonna do much.
Speaker 2: I mean, that seems to be the plan, uh, But
I don't know. It's just like the way that the
league is going. The fact that you know, two seven footers,
three seven footers went in the top what like ten
in the last three drafts. It's just like the league
is just getting bigger, and especially at the five, and
so you just can never, in my opinion, pass up
that opportunity. But we'll see. I like Zach, I think
he'll do great, So I still think I would still
love to see them potentially get somebody a little bit
bigger at the five. But I think for now it
just seems like yah, because the guy that they have
pegged as their center for the future.
Speaker 1: There and you just said something that made me think
of this, and I can't remember who said it, So
if they're listening to this, I apologize for crimming it
from them, but we've all known that. Like you mentioned
that the league seems to be gravitating towards size, and
I totally agree. It feels like size with skill, whereas
you don't necessarily want the Clint Capellas of the world
as much anymore. That are more limited kind even on
both ends of the floor, and what they're gonna they'll
be great at what they're great at, but the stuff
they're not.
Speaker 2: Versatility is key in this league.
Speaker 1: But and this is the comment I'm cribbing from someone
mentioned it used to be just so easy to chalk
it up to, well, you'll just find a big who
can play, it will be cheap, and you figure it
out after the back.
Speaker 2: You definitely need mobile fives.
Speaker 1: And now you can't just find one like and now
that I'm really just thinking about, it's like, oh, you
can fill that at the minimum, and it's that's gotten
a lot harder to do is to find like impact
centers that can play actual minutes on the cheap or
even in general. I guess at this point if you're
viewing it through a postseason lens.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's obviously I think, you know, Kristaps for zingis
really really shifted. I feel like how people look at
the five. I mean, he was drafted in what twenty fourteen.
Obviously the injuries didn't help his case, but he's made
quite an impact, especially over the last three four years,
you know, being in Washington now with Boston and just
how much of an impact he made on that series
in those first two games that he played. I really
think that set the Celtics up for success. I mean, yeah,
the Celtics is just a powerhouse with him on the team.
I mean, I don't necessarily I'm not saying that it's
an easy feat to beat the Celtics without him, but
they're definitely a more beatable team if they don't have
him in them.
Speaker 1: I don't know, they barely had him in the playoffs
last year and they still just ran through everybody.
Speaker 2: I guess it depends on matchup. But you're looking at
if we go back to then Dallas and looking at
just like what Derek Lively was able to do, and
they also have doubt Daniel Gafford. Is just they've got
twin towers. You look at Cleveland, Jared Allen and Evan Mobley.
They're still trying to figure out how to work the
two of them in the lineups. But I mean, the
twin towers are seriously, in my opinion, makes life so
much tougher on the Hawks anytime they played Cleveland. So yeah,
I don't know, I just I think that's just the
thing that I sees that they need somebody who just
kind of tips the scales a little bit in terms
of size and mobility. In the front court.
Speaker 1: Is there anything that we having talked about or something
about this team that flies under the radar, strength, another weakness,
a storyline, development, a player, whatever that you think deserves
more shine.
Speaker 2: I honestly think I'm just so surprised at how little
attention REESA. Shay has gotten as a number one pick.
I just I guess I understand where people are coming from,
where he was sort of a guy that they were like,
is he a number one pick? I'm not sure, but
you just think about some of the players that have
been former number one picks and the attention that they
sort of had, you know, after the draft happened, and
sort of the excitement that they tried to build up
of these guys as the season sort of progressed. And
I just haven't really sort of seen that. So I
don't know if it's just because he's in Atlanta and
Atlanta's no man's left, but I think that's a big
thing that's just kind of shocking you because you would
think that he'd be somebody that would be in the
running for a Rookie of the.
Speaker 1: Year, right, I mean, no, I get the team that
he's on. No, because I don't think the opportunity is
going to be there. Fair, But when you're a number
one pick, yes, the assumption this is so unique because
the Hawks are this team that was mediocre and got
the number one pick. Yeah, you never really see that.
But yeah, I guess that's why.
Speaker 2: I guess. I'm like, why isn't it should be talked
about a little bit more, especially because of the fact
that they had only a three percent chance to win
the number one pick. I mean, like, I don't know,
that just seems maybe maybe this is my uh bias
because I cover them.
Speaker 1: Well, honestly, what I think is kind of underrated is
and it's it involves rececha is they just won the
number one pick. They just traded de Jonte Murray for
what I think, even with Dyson Daniels was a future
focused return. Like, Dyson Daniels is still a prospect. You
got two first round picks and we're sitting here. They
don't control their next three first round picks. Yeah, Like,
what is Atlanta's direction? Yeah? What is the long term
endgame here?
Speaker 2: I am it's not talked about. I am surprised it's
not talked about more nationally. I mean, I've hear you
hear it here and there, but whenever I talk to
people from other teams or scouts or anything like that.
I mean, I had a scout that told me, he's like,
I can't even figure out what their plan is last year,
and he's like, I haven't even really heard conversations about
what their potential plan is. So it's just it's interesting.
They're just not a team that people talk about, and it's.
Speaker 1: Any decision they make is gonna be probably overly scrutinized
because if you said, hey, let's reset, well, unless you're
getting your own draft picks back, why are you doing that?
But then if you turn around and let's say they
use the Lakers pick, they use the additional first round
pick they get, they use someone, and they go out
and make an upgrade, it's you're not good enough to
do that. What are you doing? And so exactly, I
don't think they can necessarily, like when the press conference,
I'll call it no matter what direction they do. But
it's also just as of right now, they still feel
like they might exist around the middle, and I don't
know what over the next three years while those picks
are conveying to San Antonio. I don't necessarily know what
the right pathway. It's probably just that Receichey pops like
there's because I think for them, me inscentive right now
is you can't be bad. It doesn't make sense when
you'll control your own picks. And so you kind of
hope that Jalalen Johnson continues to progress. You hit on
some of these other editions. But it's fascinating to me
that they're not trapped because they have options, they have talent,
But I have no idea where they're going. I just
have none.
Speaker 2: It's funny because Howard Beck he put out his sort
of tears of you know where teams are and if
you can figure out kind of where their decision making
is leading them, or if you can like realistically see
that X decision is going to help them win the
championship or at least put them in contention. The Hawks
are just literally sort of in his Noman's land territory
and that nobody can figure them out. And I think
the key is just that they've added I think the
big thing. I think the big storyline is just how
much size that they've added around Trey, especially either in
the backcourt or on the wing. I think that's just
the biggest thing, and we have to see how it
plays out. It'll be interesting, for sure, But I think
the big thing too is just what do they do
with and if he truly is this, you know, is
this his season to really prove that he's the center
of the future, even though it's clear that he's sort
of positioned as that, has he fully earned it? I
don't know. I think time I think that I'm I'm
still out on that, you know.
Speaker 1: I think that's fair. You've mentioned this earlier. I think
at the top of the podcast about who might be
starting the top ten rotation for this team at full strength.
Is it kind of just like when you look at
the names of who would be the top ten set
in Stone because you have Trey, you have Bogie, Reese,
tre has to play, Jalen Johnson Capella Hunter a Kunglu
Jalen Uh. Well, Jalen John's already mentioned, So I would
have Larry Nance Junior. So that's nine locks.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think it would be.
Speaker 1: The tenth person to kind of round that out.
Speaker 2: Did you say Kobe.
Speaker 1: I did not.
Speaker 2: Yeah, So if I were amending that list, I would
probably put Dyson over Bogie just because you know, he
would set them sort of on the right path defensively hopefully,
and you can sort of inject Bogie in for more
shooting when they need a little bit more offense. I
would probably, and we touched on this, you know, throughout
the show, but I'd probably start Hunter over Zachary just because, again,
veteran a little bit more experience. He's making twenty one
million dollars a year, and then you go from there.
You don't I think, you know, you put zach in
a position of success to give him a chance to
truly adjust to the speed of the NBA. I don't
think he necessarily needs a lot of time, but I
do think Trial by Fire may not necessarily be the best.
I mean, he's obviously played with professionals already, having played
in Europe, but obviously both games are are just different,
and so maybe he's not necessarily coming off the bench
a long time. But if the season we're starting tomorrow,
that would kind of be how I would set up
the sort of rotation with Kobe being number ten.
Speaker 1: While this can be to some extent matchup dependent, what
do you think winds up being their go to crunch
time unit?
Speaker 2: The go to crunch time unit. I think Trey, I
think potentially Bogie again shooting. You want to put your
best shooters on on the floor. I'm still so like.
I think it just depends on how quickly Zach adjusts
to the NBA, because it could be either him or
DeAndre m I lean a little bit more heavily towards
DeAndre again, the veteran used to the speed of the
NBA has been there before. Yeah, can go off on
random nic. But if if Zach's the guy who's just
adjusted quickly, he's more consistent, his defense is consistent. I
could very well see a possibility of Quinn turning to him,
particularly because number one pick and then Jalen probably on
Yeka because they've kind of scaled back on Clint's minutes
when on Yaka's healthy.
Speaker 1: Actually, this might be one of the teams where we
see a lot of just shape shifting in crunch time.
Now that when you're going through it, I'm kind of
looking at they're probably gonna use a bunch of different lineups.
Speaker 2: I mean, I could see that very well. But I
also think that Quinn Snyder was a very very much
a creature of habit last season, and some of the
crunch time lineups were pretty consistent.
Speaker 1: Oh so maybe it's like a post trade deadline thing
where they're already out of the race, or something that's
something experimental that would be exactly Yeah, is there a
weirdo or funky line up that you think that Quinn
Schnyder should roll out next year?
Speaker 2: Funky line up? Well, if we're going with the ten,
I honestly wouldn't mind a world where we see Dyson. Well,
I guess maybe you want to line up with Trey
in it? Right, So I guess Trey.
Speaker 1: You're it's your funky lineup. Whoever you want to.
Speaker 2: Be in a funky, funky lineup. Okay, maybe this is
like the funkiest funky I already love it. Dyson, Bogey, Jalen,
Onyeka and Clint. Okay, wow, that's a big lineup.
Speaker 1: We're talking about their lack of size, Like yeah, sometimes
it's Jail and Clint and on, thinking like that's huge.
Speaker 2: That's a big lineup. That's that's that's funky.
Speaker 1: I would like to see. And this isn't an indictment
of Trey Young. Yeah, I just throwing Dice and Daniels.
Then give me Resache, Jalen Johnson Vic Crache, and then
I guess I should probably say DeAndre Hunter, but I'll
probably go with Bogie for the extra off the de creation, like,
let's just put those basically, yeah, okay, there's two guards
technically in there, but you're really all just like a
bunch of of wings and power.
Speaker 2: Yeah, now that's funky.
Speaker 1: So Jalen Johnson's basically your five, and that's.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and he's playing minutes at that he's playing at
the five. That's the only way I see that is
if on Clint are hurt or and Larry Nance is
hurt Oh yeah.
Speaker 1: They got Well, Larry Nas Junior is probably gonna be
hehurd at some point. If we know anything about Larry
Nance Junior. Maybe they're all in foul trouble. I don't
want to wish in your.
Speaker 2: Okay, Yeah, foul trouble. Foul trouble. That's a good one.
That's a good one. Yeah, okay, because Anyika does have
a little trouble with fouling. He's still kind of figuring.
He was still figuring out a bunch last year. And
Clint sometimes just gets called for some random weirder ones.
That you're just kind of like what it usually happens
when like people are boxing him out and they've got
an elbow in his face and the ref doesn't see
that and he like pushes up. Yeah it's weird, but all.
Speaker 1: Right, I'm want to root for it.
Speaker 2: I wouldn't be surprised if I honestly, I wouldn't be
surprised if I saw that if they were all if
all your fives were in foul foul trouble, I.
Speaker 1: Mean you could throw I need to see. I want
like the five outlooks, so Larry Nance Junior can be
in there, and then I guess you remove Bogie or
Dice and Daniels. I'd probably just remove Bogie because I
feel like the defense then of those five with Jalen Johnson, Nance,
Crachie Reschet.
Speaker 2: And have a lot of scoring.
Speaker 1: At one point and hit a bunch of floaters and
that's the plan.
Speaker 2: And Jalen just dunks and transition every five.
Speaker 1: Seconds, and Rage commits a turnover every third possession trying
to run. But yeah, so that'll be as we record this.
Mm hmm, they're over under Lauren. It said at thirty
five and a half, would you take the and I'm
pretty sure it was. When we did this last year,
it was like thirty six and a half, So it's
right around this and they.
Speaker 2: I think they won thirty seven last year.
Speaker 1: Yeah, so are you taking me over or the under
on that thirty five and a half?
Speaker 2: I would probably I probably take the over by like
one or two.
Speaker 1: Look, that's pretty un rand for this team.
Speaker 2: No, I mean maybe I'll be a little bit. Maybe
I could see them getting to thirty eight.
Speaker 1: Honestly, this is the team. But I think I said
this last year or too. It just wouldn't shock me
if they blew everyone's expectations out of the water. And
this might be that I was staring at this roster
and then I was talking about it to you for
the last like seventy plus minute, and that I've talked
to myself into being higher on it, like maybe I'm.
Speaker 2: Two or three argument.
Speaker 1: Yeah, you were so convincing. But I just look at it,
and they have a lot of and I've harped on
this previously, they have a lot of lineup optionality right now,
and I think it's more than they've had in quite
some time. And so if everyone's healthy and things break right,
with some of the wild cards. I think, specifically, if
Reciche is good right away, I'm not saying you need
to Berea, which is good, be a game changer for them.
Speaker 2: Oh absolutely, Honestly, I think in my ceiling for them,
if I'm being overly optimistic, and I mean overly overly optimistic,
I could see them sneaking in to the top, like
very like last second sneak in like maybe that last
game of the season as a sixth seed. But in reality,
I think they're their ceiling is a seven seed still
playing team.
Speaker 1: I think that's fair because the six I know, it
never breaks like we think. But you have the Nicks,
the Sixers, the Celtics, the Bucks, the Calves, and I
like the Magic and Pacers and Heat are kind of
in this not I might have. I'm lower on Miami
than most, but so that's eight teams right there. Yeah,
if you ask me who I think of those teams,
the Hawks could realistically be better than I think probably
like two or three of them. Is fair to say
that it could happen.
Speaker 2: I don't know if age I mean I can see
them being better than Miami because like you, I'm not
super high on Miami, especially how things shook out last year.
I could see them. Depending on how things shakeout, they
could they could be solid over Why am I blanking
on orline? They've just had such a hard time with
the Pacers, and I think with Pascal, I think that's
where I get a little bit nervous about them being
confident that I could say that they could beat them. So,
if anything, I could see the Pacers being maybe that
final five or six of the East. I don't know.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean they're to me, they're clearly I think
some people want to loop them probably into the same
like Charlotte. I think they're clearly better than the Charlotte, Washington, Detroit, Chicago.
The question marks to me would be can you be
better than one to two or all three of Indiana,
Orlando or Miami, Like those are kind of the three
teams that I think the Hawks could be on or
better than their level. But I could also easily of
the teams that I just named, they might actually have
the lowest floor of that group before.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I agree with that. I just think the thing is, again,
if they're they're very healthy, not very healthy. If they
remain healthy, I think they're a very competitive roster, and
I think they're more competitive than maybe people are giving
them credit for. But I just it's very hard for
me to see them cracking into the top six, unless
you know, they make a crazy run because injuries just
ravaged the East.
Speaker 1: Well between Milwaukee, New York and Philadelphia injuries and even
Porzingis isn't gonna play until twenty twenty five, I don't
think so maybe the door will be open.
Speaker 2: Yeah, but they maybe not necessarily Philly, But I don't know.
I guess Milwaukee and New York just seem to have
enough depth that they can still sort of hang around
and Jails it's just Shalen Fronts.
Speaker 1: He's a mite. Like it can't be honest, it can't
be Jailen Bruns in it. Actually Philly, he's probably better
built to navigate Juell's absence. But I if you told me,
though that the Hawks were like seventeenth in defense, I
might just be like, you know what they did finish
with the top six spot, like they just they don't
need to be good, yeah, League average. If they're better,
then we suck. If they're better than awful, that's when
they get super interesting to me, because I think just
as long as you have Trey Young, even if it's
not always the cleanest look, even if there are some
problematic lineups, you you can have a good offense for
extent the great offense and.
Speaker 2: They can always find You can always count on Trey
either finding Bogie, finding Clint to finish at the rim,
and then obviously if Jalen is healthy, you can always
count on Trey finding him in transition.
Speaker 1: Can honestly count on Trey finding it. Like he's the best,
like in terms of generating assists at the rim and
from three, like he's just one of the best in
the business of doing it. That might fly under the
radar at this yeah, dismissing.
Speaker 2: I mean he went he was twenty and ten last year.
Speaker 1: That's just I mean, like he's twenty Like what is
he twenty five and ten every year and we just
kind of like, oh, but that's not good enough or something.
So I will be fascinated if this team is good
to see if they're willing to make upgrades on the mall,
like if they're there but they're not white, if they're
seventh at the trade deadline, like is this a team
that buys or do they stand a pat and I
think that's something I'll be looking at because again it
comes back to those we're gonna book end to this
and finish where we started. It's what's gonna how do
they view themselves because of those draft obligations to say?
Speaker 2: And then I'm also curious though, like if there's seventh
that the trade deadline, though, who's going who do they trade?
Speaker 1: Well? I think what's interesting about them is they have
a lot of digestible contracts, but do view this and
it's not necessarily an insult to these players, but I
think that you could move Larry Dan Junior, Oh yeah,
Twint Capella or DeAndre Hunter and just really not feel
the ramifications that you normally would if you're trading rotation
player X.
Speaker 2: I think I think, actually, now that you mention it,
I think DeAndre is probably DeAndre and Clint, especially since
we talk so much about Amyka being sort of the
center of the future. If he and Zach are just
killing it starting off the season just way better than
anybody ever imagined, I think that could give them the
confidence to pull the trigger and maybe have a couple
of upgrades here and there.
Speaker 1: And look, Capella is specifically being expiring, if they're willing
to attach anything to him, like that's a real offer
for something. I don't know what the like the Hawks
might be targeting another big man in that trade. Yeah,
but Lauren, is there anything anyone about this team I
haven't asked you about that you think needs to be
touched upon before I let you? Oh Gay, let's do.
Speaker 2: It, Oh Gay. It's we touched on him a little
bit because obviously he was in I mentioned him being
among the injuries with Kobe that just their rookie season
was sort of stunted a little bit because of that.
And he's one of those like kind of periphery guys
that I don't think he'll get necessarily a lot of
playing time, but I think that if he can, maybe
they'll send him to to College Park for a little
bit and just depending on how things shake out with
this season, because things are just the only content in
the NBA is that it's unpredictable. You know, he could
find himself making a case to maybe be in the lineup,
and I think there's somebody that they're high on that
they want to play the wing. But he can also
play minutes as a five because he played that predominantly
in college at Washington. Is it Washington and Washington State?
I think it's Washington.
Speaker 1: He went to I'm looking at his page. He went
to Washington State.
Speaker 2: Washington State. Yeah, so yeah, he's he's kind of one
of those guys that it's like, I think he's on
the periphery of like the top ten. He's like maybe
number eleven.
Speaker 1: Well, I did not like that's that's a deep cut.
I love it. Now I'm gonna go back and watch
more of him. So if you watch so trade Jalen Johnson,
trade Clinton, trade and build a round? Mo? Is that
what we're that's' trade? Trade?
Speaker 2: Definitely see if I'm a GM, that would cost me
my child. He's good, he's good, and I think he
has a high ceiling. But he's just still so raw
because he hasn't been playing that long, and especially if
they're developing in him as a wing, they need a
little bit more time. But I would definitely, if you're
going back to watch anything, watch that last game that
they had against Indiana at the end of the season.
He went off for like nineteen points and was just
like bucket bucket, So he just didn't I think the
thing that surprised me about him a little bit is
that you didn't necessarily and maybe it's just the type
of talent that was around him, But at the Summer League,
you expected him to sort of take a step forward,
and he just didn't quite do that. So I'm just
wondering if it's if that's an indictment of who he's
surrounded by and he sort of plays up to who
he's playing with, or if it's just he needs more time.
Speaker 1: He is a top well I guess Cody's l or
six eleven too, but he's one of the two tallest
players the team, so we want size in there.
Speaker 2: There you go, Maybe that's one of the wacky lineups.
Throw them in there with, like Omika Jalen. Just throw
up five all five lineup.
Speaker 1: Lauren, this was great as always. Are you able just
to tell our listeners where they can find you and
all the fantastic work that you do.
Speaker 2: Absolutely, you guys can find me at AJC dot com,
Slash Sports, slash Hawks or something like that, or if
you are somebody who's on the Twitter machine x, whatever
you want to call it. These days, I just don't
want to get sued. We don't know how Elon will
react if you keep calling it Twitter too consistently. But yeah,
you can find me on Twitter at williams Lauren L.
Speaker 1: Thank you so much for your time, as always, running
with listening. You can find the links to where you
can find Lauren's work as well as her Twitter and
old cap Fox Twitter Forever in our podcast on YouTube description.
Thank you so much for giving me so much time
as you and as you know by now, I will
be pestering you again down the lines.
Speaker 2: Looking forward to it