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<v Speaker 1>Hello, and welcome to my podcast. This is an audio

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<v Speaker 1>version of my videos available to make listening to my

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<v Speaker 1>stuff in the background easier than YouTube makes it. But

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<v Speaker 1>since my videos are primarily made for YouTube, there may

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<v Speaker 1>be occasional references to visual materials. If you'd like this

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<v Speaker 1>podcast ad free, you can join us on Patreon Apppatreon

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<v Speaker 1>dot com, slash Vice Rhino, Please enjoy.

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<v Speaker 2>Hello and welcome to my channel Vice Rhino. Here Donald

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<v Speaker 2>James Parker. If that name means nothing to you, then congratulations.

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<v Speaker 2>You're probably busy living your life, spending time with loved

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<v Speaker 2>ones and enjoying your hobbies and stuff like that. Unfortunately,

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<v Speaker 2>for me, one of my hobbies happens to be watching

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<v Speaker 2>bad movies, often with a particular focus on Christian movies,

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<v Speaker 2>and Donald James Parker aka DJP aka Gramps is quite

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<v Speaker 2>the prolific filmmaker. There's Gramps Goes to College, the story

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<v Speaker 2>of how an old man went back to college improved

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<v Speaker 2>to the college biology professor that evolution is a lie. Also,

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<v Speaker 2>she's a hot cougar who really wants to him.

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<v Speaker 3>Have you ever considered that maybe there really is a

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<v Speaker 3>heaven and a hell and that people like you are

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<v Speaker 3>condemning young people to eternal punishment because of your teaching.

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<v Speaker 4>Have you ever considered just grabbing me and having some fun?

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<v Speaker 4>But you don't need to be afraid, honey. You can

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<v Speaker 4>take advantage of me any way you want.

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<v Speaker 2>There's the Best Friend's Trilogy, which is the story of

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<v Speaker 2>how hot cougars really want to fo him.

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<v Speaker 3>You don't have a woman friend, not even clothes.

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<v Speaker 4>Good looking guy.

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<v Speaker 5>Like you shouldn't deprive all these lovely ladies of your company.

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<v Speaker 3>You realize it.

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<v Speaker 5>Females outing them are males by a pretty big margin.

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<v Speaker 3>At our age, there would be a crime for you

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<v Speaker 3>with allD love from one of us lonely women.

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<v Speaker 4>He really be involved in criminal activity. But are I

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<v Speaker 4>just a little too old for you? I like mature men.

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<v Speaker 2>And in that story, because he gave in exactly one time,

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<v Speaker 2>he very near ruined his chances of marriage because of

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<v Speaker 2>the aides.

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<v Speaker 3>A little over a year ago, I got tangled up

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<v Speaker 3>with some woman who wasn't quite as wonderful as you.

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<v Speaker 3>She seduced me and we became sexually active.

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<v Speaker 6>Did you have a test for sexually transmitted diseases, especially AIDS?

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<v Speaker 5>No?

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<v Speaker 6>If you do have AIDS, this relationship can probably go

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<v Speaker 6>no further.

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<v Speaker 2>But don't worry if you're tired of the hot cougars

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<v Speaker 2>really wanting to him. There's also movies like In Gramp's Shoes,

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<v Speaker 2>the story of how his family will be driven back

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<v Speaker 2>to him through financial need. One day, Hi, it's Amy, Amy.

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<v Speaker 4>Amy. Isn't my daughter Amy?

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<v Speaker 6>But you don't recognize my voice.

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<v Speaker 3>It's been twenty years since I've heard it.

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<v Speaker 6>I'm in trouble and I need your help.

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<v Speaker 4>What's the matter?

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<v Speaker 6>And he left me two years ago. He's disappeared. I

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<v Speaker 6>have no idea where he is. He's not paying child support.

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<v Speaker 6>I'm way behind on my mortgage. I am going to

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<v Speaker 6>have the house taken away from me by the bank.

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<v Speaker 6>I've got two kids.

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<v Speaker 2>At which point he can prove to all of the

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<v Speaker 2>teenagers that he's a fitness buff who can totally kick

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<v Speaker 2>all of their asses. That old man is bionic.

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<v Speaker 7>He's a machine, a running machine.

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<v Speaker 5>Yeah, it's like we've been suckered. He's sound kind of

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<v Speaker 5>pro or something. Well out.

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<v Speaker 3>Way way to go, Graham, take that and smoke you boys.

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<v Speaker 7>Let me try that.

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<v Speaker 4>Wow, he got all the way down.

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<v Speaker 3>Two bit. Come on, now, come on, come onct you

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<v Speaker 3>up there.

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<v Speaker 2>Wow, this dude makes movies instead of going to therapy,

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<v Speaker 2>is what I'm getting at. Anyway, he made a new

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<v Speaker 2>one called Beauty and the Atheist, which is all about

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<v Speaker 2>how he totally would have won his debate with Forrest

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<v Speaker 2>Valcai a couple of years ago if only he was

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<v Speaker 2>a hot young woman who could distract Forest with her

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<v Speaker 2>feminine wiles. Now, I'm not going to do a review

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<v Speaker 2>of the whole movie. Forest already joined the god Awful

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<v Speaker 2>Movies guys and did that himself. But as I was

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<v Speaker 2>torturing my partner by making her watch it with me,

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<v Speaker 2>it occurred to me that the actual debate segment in

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<v Speaker 2>the movie would be fun to respond to. So here

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<v Speaker 2>I am. Let's take a look.

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<v Speaker 5>Welcome to another episode of Chilling with the Renegade Scientist.

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<v Speaker 2>I left that bed in too dispel any doubt that

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<v Speaker 2>this character is in fact based almost entirely on Forest Valcai,

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<v Speaker 2>who goes by the handle Renegade science Teacher online. I mean,

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<v Speaker 2>if you've watched the actual conversation that Forest had with Gramps,

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<v Speaker 2>it is obvious that this whole movie is a result

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<v Speaker 2>of the shower arguments that Gram's won against Forest in

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<v Speaker 2>the wake of that conversation. But here you go. This

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<v Speaker 2>just makes it explicit.

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<v Speaker 5>My guest today is Douglas Conners. He is a writer

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<v Speaker 5>and maker of Christian movies. Welcome Douglas, Thank you, Trey. So,

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<v Speaker 5>Douglas wanted to have a conversation about evolution, and obviously

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<v Speaker 5>he has some difficulty embracing the truth. So Douglas, let's

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<v Speaker 5>just first off and tell me why you were anti science?

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<v Speaker 4>Hold on, not anti science.

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<v Speaker 2>And thus we have the framing that Graham's has for

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<v Speaker 2>this conversation. I am probably going to reference it a lot,

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<v Speaker 2>so I may as well link to it now. But

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<v Speaker 2>if you watch the actual conversation between him and Forrest,

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<v Speaker 2>Forest was very much coming from a place of wanting

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<v Speaker 2>to educate Donald. He was patient and non combative, essentially

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<v Speaker 2>being in teacher mode the entire time. But apparently that's

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<v Speaker 2>not how Gramp saw it. He thinks that Forrest was

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<v Speaker 2>framing his questions in a way to make him look

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<v Speaker 2>as bad as possible. Why are you anti science? Is

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<v Speaker 2>a question that was never asked. The actual opening to

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<v Speaker 2>the interview after the introductions, was Forrest trying to relate

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<v Speaker 2>to Donald, telling him that His desire to teach what

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<v Speaker 2>he believes to be true despite the pushback, is the

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<v Speaker 2>exact reason why he goes by renegade science teacher. I

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<v Speaker 2>you know what, though, my.

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<v Speaker 7>Handle on like TikTok and everything they got me started

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<v Speaker 7>was renegade science teacher. And it was for that exact reason,

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<v Speaker 7>because I wanted to teach all the science that I loved.

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<v Speaker 7>And I live in Oklahoma, which is like the buckle

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<v Speaker 7>of the Bible belt. And I would get in trouble

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<v Speaker 7>with the companies. I worked for a children's museum, I

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<v Speaker 7>worked for different educational companies and everything. And when I

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<v Speaker 7>would teach something that would religious person might not like,

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<v Speaker 7>You're gonna lose us money and all this stuff. And

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<v Speaker 7>so I did the same thing in the exact opposite direction.

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<v Speaker 7>I wanted to teach the real stuff. I don't care

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<v Speaker 7>if it gets me in trouble. I wanted to do

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<v Speaker 7>the real thing. It's like, I love that I think

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<v Speaker 7>you and I are both you know, got from the

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<v Speaker 7>same cloth in that way that we're all you know,

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<v Speaker 7>we're very excited to go talk about what we're passionate

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<v Speaker 7>about and to try to fix what we see as

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<v Speaker 7>problems in the world, despite the fact that we see

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<v Speaker 7>very different problems. I think you and I a lot

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<v Speaker 7>of the things that I think are good, I think

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<v Speaker 7>you think are bad, and vice versa.

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<v Speaker 2>I'm not going to be pointing this out every time

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<v Speaker 2>he does this, but just keep in mind that in

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<v Speaker 2>the real interview, Forrest was being very conciliatory and Donald

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<v Speaker 2>still came away from it feeling like he was being

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<v Speaker 2>attacked by a big, mean atheist guy.

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<v Speaker 3>I am anti pseudoscience and definitely anti political science.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, okay, all of you know that if you were

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<v Speaker 2>anti pseudoscience, he wouldn't be a creationist, so I don't

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<v Speaker 2>really need to harp on that. But I wonder what

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<v Speaker 2>he thinks political science even is that made him feel

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<v Speaker 2>the need to lump it in here. I think he

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<v Speaker 2>might think that political sciences related to political correctness. But

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<v Speaker 2>this is just a strange grouping, and it speaks to

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<v Speaker 2>his unwillingness to learn the basics of whatever he's trying

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<v Speaker 2>to debunk.

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<v Speaker 3>Which involves this study that where the results are intentionally

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<v Speaker 3>skewed based on who paid for the research. For example,

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<v Speaker 3>a study on the dangers of butter paid for by

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<v Speaker 3>the margarine industry or vice versa. Not all quote unquote

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<v Speaker 3>sciences equal, you know.

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<v Speaker 2>Okay, So I guess he thinks that political science is

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<v Speaker 2>just science with the profit motive science that is just

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<v Speaker 2>manipulating statistics to make your team look like it's the

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<v Speaker 2>correct one. Yeah, okay. I stand by my assessment that

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<v Speaker 2>he is unwilling to learn basics of whatever thing he

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<v Speaker 2>wants to debunk me.

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<v Speaker 4>I'm all about the truth, me too. So what is

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<v Speaker 4>your primary objection to evolution? Ooh, so many to choose from.

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<v Speaker 3>Well, my biggest objection is this that despite the fact

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<v Speaker 3>that the idea is generated by evolution concerning the flora

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<v Speaker 3>and fauna that we see around us, they're historical in

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<v Speaker 3>nature can't be replicated and tested in the laboratory using

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<v Speaker 3>a scientific method.

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<v Speaker 2>Specific hypotheses about which species is the ancestor of which

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<v Speaker 2>other species cannot be replicated in the lab. True, However,

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<v Speaker 2>the critical aspects of evolution can. Mutations, for instance, are

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<v Speaker 2>one of the primary mechanisms of evolution, and we've observed

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<v Speaker 2>every kind of mutation that would be necessary for evolution

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<v Speaker 2>in lab settings, and we can replicate these observations. At

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<v Speaker 2>the end of the day, the genome is the key

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<v Speaker 2>to what kind of organism you are. With that in mind,

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<v Speaker 2>we can start with the genome of any organism on

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<v Speaker 2>the planet, and using nothing but the types of mutations

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<v Speaker 2>that we have observed in lab settings, that genome can

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<v Speaker 2>be transformed into the genome of any other organism on

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<v Speaker 2>the planet. Now, obviously this is oversimplified, and we have

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<v Speaker 2>to keep in mind that evolution has no goals, so

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<v Speaker 2>there will never be a scenario where one type of

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<v Speaker 2>organism turns into an already extant organism in this way.

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<v Speaker 2>But the fact of the matter is that this means

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<v Speaker 2>that evolution, from even the simplest of beginnings is perfectly

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<v Speaker 2>adequate to explain the diversity of life.

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<v Speaker 3>Even though that's true, these ideas are forced down kids'

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<v Speaker 3>throats and other people's throats.

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<v Speaker 4>All over the world as if they're slam dunk factual.

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<v Speaker 2>It's because they are slam dunk factual.

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<v Speaker 3>Got them, and no real discussion about other explanations and

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<v Speaker 3>possibilities is even perminated.

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<v Speaker 2>Mainly because there is no other possible explanation that has

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<v Speaker 2>anywhere near the evidence backing it up as evolution does.

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<v Speaker 2>The closest I've ever come to hearing creation is actually

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<v Speaker 2>tried to give anything a mant ounting to a positive

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<v Speaker 2>case for creation rather than just assuming that creationism is

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<v Speaker 2>a default position if they've managed to poke Nu hole

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<v Speaker 2>as an evolution was that guy from a few weeks

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<v Speaker 2>ago who tried to explain the process by which God

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<v Speaker 2>could have cloned Eve from Adam's rib And he wasn't

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<v Speaker 2>really providing any evidence that his idea is what did happen.

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<v Speaker 2>He was mostly just trying to explain how God making

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<v Speaker 2>a whole person from another person's rib was scientifically plausible.

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<v Speaker 5>Okay, So just to be clear here, you are not

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<v Speaker 5>advocating that the teaching of evolution be removed from the classroom,

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<v Speaker 5>not at all.

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<v Speaker 4>Not my mantras teach the controversy.

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<v Speaker 2>Okay, but how does that apply when there is no

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<v Speaker 2>actual controversy.

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<v Speaker 3>Get kids to think, and you know, present the idea

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<v Speaker 3>one that's been believed by billions of people over the centuries,

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<v Speaker 3>that an omnipotent creator designed this universe and specifically this

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<v Speaker 3>planet in all the life forms therein, right alongside Darwin

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<v Speaker 3>and all those neo Darwinis who evolved his theory.

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<v Speaker 2>That's basically an argument from popularity. Billions of people have

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<v Speaker 2>believed this, so there must be something to it. Problem

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<v Speaker 2>is there's really nothing to teach a biology class structure

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<v Speaker 2>that way would still be ninety nine percent evolution and

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<v Speaker 2>then a few minutes dedicated to Also, some people think

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<v Speaker 2>God did it. I also rather enjoyed the vitriol with

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<v Speaker 2>which he said that neo Darwin has evolved his theory.

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<v Speaker 2>It shows that he expects scientists to behave like religious leaders.

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<v Speaker 2>Evolution is our God and Darwin is his prophet. Darwin

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<v Speaker 2>must not be questioned. So the idea that our understanding

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<v Speaker 2>of the theory of evolution has changed as we learn

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<v Speaker 2>more about it is just unthinkable to him. Why don't

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<v Speaker 2>scientists punish heresy like the church does, Well, it's because

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<v Speaker 2>there is no heresy in science. One of the most

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<v Speaker 2>exciting things a scientist can do is prove the last

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<v Speaker 2>guy wrong about something. So, yes, we have evolved Darwin's

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<v Speaker 2>original theory, because as groundbreaking as Darwin's work was, it

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<v Speaker 2>was just that groundbreaking. You wouldn't build a skyscraper by

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<v Speaker 2>breaking ground and then never putting away the shovels and

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<v Speaker 2>just keep digging down. No, you break the ground, then

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<v Speaker 2>you build the foundation, and then Once you have a

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<v Speaker 2>solid foundation, you start to construct the actual structure. I

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<v Speaker 2>don't know if that's actually how you build a skyscraper,

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<v Speaker 2>but you get my point. The first work to be

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<v Speaker 2>done on a major scientific discovery is by the very

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<v Speaker 2>nature of how science works, going to be quite different

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<v Speaker 2>from the more developed work happening more than a century later.

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<v Speaker 5>That's material for religion class, and religion and science should

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<v Speaker 5>not be mingled.

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<v Speaker 2>That's accurate. I would disagree with the implication here being

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<v Speaker 2>that it's okay to teach it as though it were

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<v Speaker 2>true as long as it's not in a science class.

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<v Speaker 2>But yeah, you don't talk about creation by God in

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<v Speaker 2>science class for the same reason that you don't talk

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<v Speaker 2>about the Creb cycle in Civics class.

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<v Speaker 3>Well, my definition of science is the discovery by man

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<v Speaker 3>of the world that God created with all its laws

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<v Speaker 3>and its elements and its properties, as confirmed by the

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<v Speaker 3>scientific method.

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<v Speaker 2>Now, I would actually argue that it's okay for religious

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<v Speaker 2>people to define science as the study of God's creation

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<v Speaker 2>as long as they are willing to actually follow the

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<v Speaker 2>science to its conclusions. If you learn something about how

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<v Speaker 2>reality works that is in conflict with your theology, it

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<v Speaker 2>shouldn't be reality that has to bend in order to

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<v Speaker 2>accommodate your views. Your views should change to accommodate reality.

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<v Speaker 5>I'm afraid, Uglass, you don't get to define science. You

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<v Speaker 5>should probably stick to defining religion.

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<v Speaker 7>All right.

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<v Speaker 2>I forgot faux forest is a big meanie.

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<v Speaker 4>Pants Bible already did that.

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<v Speaker 3>James wrote that pure religion is to visit widows and

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<v Speaker 3>orphans in their distress and keep oneself on spotted.

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<v Speaker 4>From the world.

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<v Speaker 3>Oh.

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<v Speaker 5>I bet the Muslims and the Hindus and the Jews

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<v Speaker 5>and about a zillion other religions are just thrilled to

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<v Speaker 5>hear that. And by the way, and there are a

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<v Speaker 5>lot of atheists who give charity to orphans and widows

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<v Speaker 5>and live according to their own moral standards.

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<v Speaker 2>Aside from the weirdly specific category of orphans and widows,

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<v Speaker 2>which I assume is just meant to be a catch

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<v Speaker 2>all for helping those in need. An atheist would be

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<v Speaker 2>extremely unlikely to add on to the bit about doing

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<v Speaker 2>it in accordance with their own moral standard, especially an

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<v Speaker 2>atheist whose whole job is talking to Christians about atheism.

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<v Speaker 2>All that accomplishes is to set up the apologetic straw

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<v Speaker 2>man of atheist morality for Donald to come around and

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<v Speaker 2>knock down.

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<v Speaker 3>Oh, so everyone gets to set their own moral standards.

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<v Speaker 3>There's no universal standard that applies to everybody.

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<v Speaker 2>There, you go, easy knockdown for Gramps.

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<v Speaker 5>Well, that's the beauty of not believing in God. He

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<v Speaker 5>can't force his values fun to us.

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<v Speaker 4>But we digress.

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<v Speaker 5>Our conversation was supposed to be focused on evolution.

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<v Speaker 4>Let's get back on track, Ooky Doki, hmm, this.

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<v Speaker 2>Is honestly a fascinating look into his perspective. I think

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<v Speaker 2>what Donald was going for there is that Gramps had

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<v Speaker 2>faux forrest on the ropes and was about to make

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<v Speaker 2>the awesome knockdown argument when Forest suddenly felt the need

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<v Speaker 2>to change the subject, and since the conversation was just

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<v Speaker 2>supposed to be about evolution anyway, that gave him an

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<v Speaker 2>easy escape hatch. Well, just to address the morality thing,

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<v Speaker 2>The way I see it is that there is no

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<v Speaker 2>such thing as morality unless there is some sort of goal.

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<v Speaker 2>A goal that I think works well well is to

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<v Speaker 2>increase net wellbeing and decrease net harm. If we agree

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<v Speaker 2>on this as the goal, then we can measure the

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<v Speaker 2>consequences of any action to see whether there has been

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<v Speaker 2>an increase in well being and or decrease in harm,

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<v Speaker 2>and thus determine objectively whether that action was moral or immoral.

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<v Speaker 2>There is, of course more to it than that I

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<v Speaker 2>specifically subscribe to a form of compassionate utilitarianism, which accounts

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<v Speaker 2>for actions for which such a calculation would be impossible

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<v Speaker 2>and doesn't wind up with the potential for justifying genocide

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<v Speaker 2>that pure utilitarianism comes with. But as this is not

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<v Speaker 2>the focus of the video, I will just leave a

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<v Speaker 2>link to the video where I explained it in more

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<v Speaker 2>detail and move on.

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<v Speaker 3>Let me throw some names at you, Okay, Franklin Harold

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<v Speaker 3>who happens to be a biochemist as a scientist, Douglas.

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<v Speaker 2>I just can't with this guy's attempts to write banter.

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<v Speaker 2>Every movie he writes has characters that are ostensibly friends

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<v Speaker 2>but argue about everything in a way that I'm sure

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<v Speaker 2>Donald thinks is witty banter. But that interaction you just

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<v Speaker 2>saw is par for the course. It's just painful.

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<v Speaker 3>He wrote in a book that was published by Oxford

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<v Speaker 3>University Press. There are presently no detailed Darwinian accounts of

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<v Speaker 3>the evolution of any biochemical or cellular system, only a

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<v Speaker 3>variety of wishful speculations.

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<v Speaker 2>Well, to quote one Forrest VALKEI, whatever creationist quotes a scientist,

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<v Speaker 2>just read the next sentence, though in this case I

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<v Speaker 2>think the previous half of the quoted sentence will suffice quote.

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<v Speaker 2>We should reject, as a matter of principle, the substitution

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<v Speaker 2>of intelligent design for the dialogue of chance and necessity.

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<v Speaker 2>Remember earlier when I said, specific hypotheses about which species

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<v Speaker 2>is the ancestor of which other species cannot be replicated

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<v Speaker 2>in the lab. True, However, the critical aspects of evolution can. Well,

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<v Speaker 2>that's what he was talking about. We know of and

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<v Speaker 2>have demonstrated in a lab all of the mechanisms that

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<v Speaker 2>would be required for the development of these biochemical and

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<v Speaker 2>cellular systems. But to quote him again, same book quote,

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<v Speaker 2>in the absence of time travel, we may never discover

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<v Speaker 2>what actually happened, and so a modicum of doubt necessarily persists.

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<v Speaker 3>Well, that's one man's opinion, one scientist's opinion.

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<v Speaker 5>Okay, one scientist opinion, But there are a myriad of

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<v Speaker 5>other scientists who will disagree with.

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<v Speaker 2>Him, including the one Graham's quote. It at least he'd

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<v Speaker 2>disagree with the way his quote was presented, as is

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<v Speaker 2>made clear by the whole rest of the book that

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<v Speaker 2>it's found in.

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<v Speaker 5>And one thing I just I think we have to

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<v Speaker 5>point out here right now is that interpretation is key

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<v Speaker 5>in the quest for truth. First, Douglas, there's the interpretation

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<v Speaker 5>of the evidence itself, and then we have to interpret

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<v Speaker 5>the words of the scientists who are describing their interpretation

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<v Speaker 5>of that evidence.

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<v Speaker 2>I don't know, man, that sounds like something answers in

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<v Speaker 2>Genesis would say. It's more about predictive power. Sure, there

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<v Speaker 2>are interpretations, but different predictions can be made based on

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<v Speaker 2>different interpretations of the same data, and the interpretation that

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<v Speaker 2>makes the most accurate predictions is more likely to be

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<v Speaker 2>an accurate interpretation than one whose predictions fail. For example,

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<v Speaker 2>we can look at the rock layers with their myriad

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<v Speaker 2>of fossils. The younger creationist interpretation of these data is

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<v Speaker 2>that the fossils were laid down by Noah's flood just

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<v Speaker 2>over four thousand years ago. The scientific interpretation of these

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<v Speaker 2>data is that it shows a history of life on

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<v Speaker 2>Earth going back hundreds of millions of years at the least. Now,

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<v Speaker 2>with the creationist interpretation we have a few predictions. We

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<v Speaker 2>wouldn't expect to find the fossils in any particular order.

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<v Speaker 2>Any organism from any location could be found in any

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<v Speaker 2>other location as it was swept away by the global flood,

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<v Speaker 2>And there wouldn't really be much in the way of

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<v Speaker 2>rhyme or reason as to which organisms would be near

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<v Speaker 2>the bottom of the rock layers and which would be

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<v Speaker 2>near the top. There also wouldn't be distinct rock layers,

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<v Speaker 2>but let's set that one aside now. In the scientific interpretation,

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<v Speaker 2>the organisms would be showing an evolutionary progression from simple,

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<v Speaker 2>more generalized organisms to more complex and specialized organisms. What's more,

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<v Speaker 2>we'd expect that we could make predictions about which specific

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<v Speaker 2>features would evolve in which rock layers. For example, given

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<v Speaker 2>what we knew about evolution in the nineteen nineties, researchers

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<v Speaker 2>predicted that the tetrapod limb structure would first be found

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<v Speaker 2>in Devonian rock layers. The researchers who made that prediction

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<v Speaker 2>then set up shop on Ellesmere Island in northern Canada,

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<v Speaker 2>because there's a bunch of easily accessible Devonian rock there.

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<v Speaker 2>A few years later, they publish their findings. A basil

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<v Speaker 2>tetrapod now known as tiktalic. When creationism can look at

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<v Speaker 2>its model and say, we will find X kind of

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<v Speaker 2>organism that we've never found before in why type of

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<v Speaker 2>rock layer, then go out and actually find it, then

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<v Speaker 2>we can take it seriously as an interpretation, because that

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<v Speaker 2>is what the evolutionary interpretation can accomplish.

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<v Speaker 4>That's a good point.

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<v Speaker 2>Now it's not a good point, but I'm not surprised

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<v Speaker 2>that he thinks it is. It is easy to win

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<v Speaker 2>a debate when you're writing both sides, after all, though

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<v Speaker 2>for plot purposes, he does eventually have to lose this one.

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<v Speaker 2>He just couldn't resist the urge to get a couple

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<v Speaker 2>shots in first.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah, what did Harold really mean when he said detailed

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<v Speaker 3>Darwinian accounts?

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<v Speaker 2>He meant that although we are aware of the mechanisms

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<v Speaker 2>that are necessary to explain how the systems he was

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<v Speaker 2>talking about developed, we don't know how it actually did develop,

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<v Speaker 2>not in the sense that it wasn't possible, but in

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<v Speaker 2>the sense that we don't have a time machine and

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<v Speaker 2>so can't go back and see which of the many

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<v Speaker 2>potential paths evolution actually took. And we can get that

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<v Speaker 2>interpretation by reading more of his book than just out

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<v Speaker 2>of context quotes on creationist websites. To quote Donald James Parker.

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<v Speaker 4>You know, reading's kind of become a lost art.

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<v Speaker 2>I couldn't agree more, Donald, I couldn't agree more.

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<v Speaker 3>Read a book, Donald, it seems like the devil's always

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<v Speaker 3>in the details.

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<v Speaker 4>Huh. Well, I don't believe in the goal figure.

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<v Speaker 3>Well, in my experience, just about every evolutionist it interprets

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<v Speaker 3>all evidence is confirming evolution, and if they can't do that,

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<v Speaker 3>they either reject that evidence or ignore it along with

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<v Speaker 3>the people who bring that evidence to the table.

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<v Speaker 4>You creationists have such a persecution complex.

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<v Speaker 2>No, that's not their persecution complex. I mean they do

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<v Speaker 2>have one, to be sure, but generally it's more about

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<v Speaker 2>stuff like public school teachers facing some sort of consequences

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<v Speaker 2>for refusing to teach true.

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<v Speaker 4>Things, maybe with reason.

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<v Speaker 3>You know, it is bad enough to ignore evidence, but

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00:21:02.880 --> 00:21:05.039
<v Speaker 3>I think it's even worse to manufacture and then you

427
00:21:05.079 --> 00:21:06.400
<v Speaker 3>guys do that sometimes.

428
00:21:06.839 --> 00:21:08.920
<v Speaker 2>Call back to two weeks ago where Calvin of Answers

429
00:21:08.920 --> 00:21:12.480
<v Speaker 2>in Genesis Canada completely fabricated a quote and attributed his

430
00:21:12.559 --> 00:21:17.000
<v Speaker 2>fabricated quote to an evolutionary biologist. So if we're throwing

431
00:21:17.079 --> 00:21:20.119
<v Speaker 2>it out based on unrelated people having fabricated evidence. Then

432
00:21:20.440 --> 00:21:23.160
<v Speaker 2>I guess creationism fails thanks to answers in genesis.

433
00:21:24.160 --> 00:21:27.799
<v Speaker 3>Let me cite a concrete example. Don't worry, I won't

434
00:21:27.799 --> 00:21:30.160
<v Speaker 3>mention Nebraska Man or Hackles drawings.

435
00:21:30.519 --> 00:21:33.119
<v Speaker 2>Nebraska Man was a pig tooth that was misidentified as

436
00:21:33.119 --> 00:21:35.960
<v Speaker 2>an early hominid and was promptly recategorized when the error

437
00:21:36.000 --> 00:21:39.279
<v Speaker 2>was discovered. Hackel's embryo drawings are a bit more contentious.

438
00:21:39.440 --> 00:21:41.039
<v Speaker 2>There is some question as to whether he drew the

439
00:21:41.079 --> 00:21:43.720
<v Speaker 2>embryos inaccurately in order to make them appear more similar

440
00:21:43.720 --> 00:21:46.079
<v Speaker 2>than they actually were. It is unclear if this is

441
00:21:46.160 --> 00:21:48.720
<v Speaker 2>actually what he did, but the study of embryology has

442
00:21:48.759 --> 00:21:52.599
<v Speaker 2>progressed largely independent of Hackel. His recapitulation theory was the

443
00:21:52.640 --> 00:21:54.599
<v Speaker 2>idea that an embryo goes through all of the body

444
00:21:54.599 --> 00:21:57.119
<v Speaker 2>plans that are in its evolutionary history while it develops,

445
00:21:57.400 --> 00:21:58.880
<v Speaker 2>and that is what he would have been trying to

446
00:21:58.880 --> 00:22:01.839
<v Speaker 2>show if he were actually faking his drawings. But as

447
00:22:01.960 --> 00:22:05.200
<v Speaker 2>modern embryology shows a bunch of evidence for homology without

448
00:22:05.240 --> 00:22:08.119
<v Speaker 2>relying on Hackel's drawings, then whether or not he actually

449
00:22:08.200 --> 00:22:09.880
<v Speaker 2>did fake them is a moot point.

450
00:22:10.920 --> 00:22:16.759
<v Speaker 3>Richard Dawkins likes to demonstrate how evolution works using a

451
00:22:16.799 --> 00:22:19.119
<v Speaker 3>computer program analogy.

452
00:22:19.160 --> 00:22:21.720
<v Speaker 2>Good for him, I guess I thought you were bringing

453
00:22:21.799 --> 00:22:23.960
<v Speaker 2>up a concrete example of someone falsifying evidence.

454
00:22:24.960 --> 00:22:27.599
<v Speaker 3>So there's a computer program that's going to spell a

455
00:22:27.640 --> 00:22:32.240
<v Speaker 3>phrase me thinks it is like a weasel. So let's

456
00:22:32.240 --> 00:22:34.400
<v Speaker 3>see if I can explain this so even a scientist

457
00:22:34.440 --> 00:22:35.440
<v Speaker 3>can understand.

458
00:22:35.680 --> 00:22:37.920
<v Speaker 2>He cannot. He explains it like someone who read about

459
00:22:37.920 --> 00:22:40.440
<v Speaker 2>it once several years ago but doesn't quite remember it.

460
00:22:40.599 --> 00:22:42.799
<v Speaker 2>So I will spare you his explanation and give it

461
00:22:42.799 --> 00:22:45.000
<v Speaker 2>to you myself. Dawkins proposed this as kind of a

462
00:22:45.000 --> 00:22:47.440
<v Speaker 2>response to the infinite monkeys bang on infinite keyboards to

463
00:22:47.480 --> 00:22:50.440
<v Speaker 2>produce the works of Shakespeare thought experiment. As it turns out,

464
00:22:50.519 --> 00:22:52.640
<v Speaker 2>if you limit one monkey to a single twenty seven

465
00:22:52.680 --> 00:22:55.519
<v Speaker 2>key keyboard twenty six letters plus space, and instead of

466
00:22:55.559 --> 00:22:57.839
<v Speaker 2>looking for the entire works of Shakespeare, you just look

467
00:22:57.880 --> 00:23:00.039
<v Speaker 2>for the twenty eight character phrase methinks it is like

468
00:23:00.079 --> 00:23:02.799
<v Speaker 2>a weasel, then, at a rate of ten million attempts

469
00:23:02.839 --> 00:23:05.160
<v Speaker 2>per second, it would take several times longer than the

470
00:23:05.240 --> 00:23:08.640
<v Speaker 2>universe has actually existed to randomly produce that phrase. But

471
00:23:09.279 --> 00:23:11.680
<v Speaker 2>if you are allowed to iterate, keeping the first nonsense

472
00:23:11.680 --> 00:23:14.920
<v Speaker 2>storing of characters and mutating it gradually over successive iterations,

473
00:23:15.319 --> 00:23:17.559
<v Speaker 2>then his computer from the nineteen eighties was able to

474
00:23:17.599 --> 00:23:19.880
<v Speaker 2>do it in under an hour, and that was before

475
00:23:19.920 --> 00:23:21.920
<v Speaker 2>he refined the code to be more efficient and accomplished

476
00:23:21.920 --> 00:23:25.279
<v Speaker 2>it in eleven seconds. Now, obviously this has a few issues.

477
00:23:25.400 --> 00:23:27.880
<v Speaker 2>For one, evolution does not have an end goal, but

478
00:23:28.119 --> 00:23:31.759
<v Speaker 2>somewhat counterintuitively, that actually makes things easier. If we continue

479
00:23:31.759 --> 00:23:33.960
<v Speaker 2>the analogy, we can say that the rules of spelling

480
00:23:33.960 --> 00:23:36.319
<v Speaker 2>and grammar are the equivalent of the selection pressures that

481
00:23:36.359 --> 00:23:39.680
<v Speaker 2>make one genetic sequence favorable and another one unfavorable. With

482
00:23:39.720 --> 00:23:42.680
<v Speaker 2>that in mind, we're no longer looking for a specific sentence.

483
00:23:42.720 --> 00:23:45.359
<v Speaker 2>We're just looking for any sentence of any length that

484
00:23:45.440 --> 00:23:48.400
<v Speaker 2>is correct in both spelling and grammar. The shortest grammatically

485
00:23:48.400 --> 00:23:51.440
<v Speaker 2>correct sentence in English is the single word go. It

486
00:23:51.559 --> 00:23:54.400
<v Speaker 2>is far easier to get the word go completely at random,

487
00:23:54.400 --> 00:23:56.359
<v Speaker 2>but as it happens, we still get to use the

488
00:23:56.359 --> 00:23:58.240
<v Speaker 2>iterative method. So even if we didn't get it on

489
00:23:58.279 --> 00:24:00.559
<v Speaker 2>our first try, it won't take us longer to get there,

490
00:24:00.839 --> 00:24:03.440
<v Speaker 2>or to any of a number of short sentences. But

491
00:24:03.519 --> 00:24:05.279
<v Speaker 2>let's say that we do wind up at go and

492
00:24:05.319 --> 00:24:08.079
<v Speaker 2>collect our two hundred dollars. Now it is free to

493
00:24:08.160 --> 00:24:10.720
<v Speaker 2>mutate into just about any sentence you care to think of,

494
00:24:11.039 --> 00:24:12.920
<v Speaker 2>in much the same way as I laid out earlier,

495
00:24:12.960 --> 00:24:15.720
<v Speaker 2>with the genome of any organism being capable of transforming

496
00:24:15.720 --> 00:24:18.559
<v Speaker 2>into the genome of any other organism through small changes

497
00:24:18.599 --> 00:24:21.240
<v Speaker 2>that we know are possible. Now, let's skip past his

498
00:24:21.319 --> 00:24:23.279
<v Speaker 2>explanation and see how he responds to it.

499
00:24:24.000 --> 00:24:27.240
<v Speaker 3>And it continues that whole process until it spells out

500
00:24:27.359 --> 00:24:29.680
<v Speaker 3>me thinks it is like a weasel, and then the

501
00:24:29.759 --> 00:24:31.559
<v Speaker 3>program just stops.

502
00:24:32.680 --> 00:24:35.599
<v Speaker 2>Oh so Donald took the analogy farther than it was

503
00:24:35.599 --> 00:24:39.279
<v Speaker 2>supposed to go. Yes, the computer program stops because computers

504
00:24:39.279 --> 00:24:42.680
<v Speaker 2>are man made machines that do as we tell them. Evolution, however,

505
00:24:42.920 --> 00:24:45.160
<v Speaker 2>does not stop. I know a lot of creationists are

506
00:24:45.240 --> 00:24:47.559
<v Speaker 2>under the misconception that evolution has finished at this point

507
00:24:47.599 --> 00:24:50.400
<v Speaker 2>in history, now that it's reached its pinnacle. But it

508
00:24:50.440 --> 00:24:51.359
<v Speaker 2>is still happening.

509
00:24:52.160 --> 00:24:54.480
<v Speaker 4>And your point, my point.

510
00:24:56.480 --> 00:25:00.640
<v Speaker 3>First of all, the computer knows the answer, knows where

511
00:25:00.640 --> 00:25:02.799
<v Speaker 3>to drop in every one of those letters, and those

512
00:25:02.839 --> 00:25:03.680
<v Speaker 3>when to stop.

513
00:25:04.440 --> 00:25:07.680
<v Speaker 2>Okay, So Donald tells people that he was a computer

514
00:25:07.720 --> 00:25:10.400
<v Speaker 2>programmer for most of his career. That means that he

515
00:25:10.440 --> 00:25:13.279
<v Speaker 2>should be able to replicate the program that Dawkins made. Hell,

516
00:25:13.640 --> 00:25:16.759
<v Speaker 2>I'm a computer programming college dropout and I whipped one up.

517
00:25:16.960 --> 00:25:20.440
<v Speaker 2>Here you go, nice. It got it in sixty nine tries.

518
00:25:20.960 --> 00:25:23.440
<v Speaker 2>I swear I didn't do that on purpose. So here

519
00:25:23.440 --> 00:25:24.880
<v Speaker 2>I'll just run it again to show you it doesn't

520
00:25:24.920 --> 00:25:27.160
<v Speaker 2>just go through the same sequence every time. There you

521
00:25:27.200 --> 00:25:29.359
<v Speaker 2>go eighty four tries. That time, the nice results from

522
00:25:29.359 --> 00:25:32.279
<v Speaker 2>the first run through still stand. My point is that

523
00:25:32.400 --> 00:25:35.119
<v Speaker 2>generating a random string of characters the same length as

524
00:25:35.160 --> 00:25:39.319
<v Speaker 2>the target phrase is literally the easiest part of the program. Sure,

525
00:25:39.319 --> 00:25:41.079
<v Speaker 2>if we want to get all philosophical, we could get

526
00:25:41.079 --> 00:25:43.160
<v Speaker 2>into the weeds about how it wasn't truly random. It

527
00:25:43.200 --> 00:25:45.039
<v Speaker 2>was the outcome of a calculation performed on a seed

528
00:25:45.119 --> 00:25:46.599
<v Speaker 2>number that was chosen in a way as to best

529
00:25:46.640 --> 00:25:50.000
<v Speaker 2>appear random. But the same seed will always result in

530
00:25:50.039 --> 00:25:51.759
<v Speaker 2>the same initial string of characters, so there is no

531
00:25:51.839 --> 00:25:54.680
<v Speaker 2>true randomness here. But we are now way past where

532
00:25:54.680 --> 00:25:57.240
<v Speaker 2>this analogy was supposed to end. For the purposes of

533
00:25:57.279 --> 00:26:00.119
<v Speaker 2>the analogy, we can pretend that the computer really is

534
00:26:00.119 --> 00:26:02.759
<v Speaker 2>is generating a random string of characters, So while it

535
00:26:02.799 --> 00:26:06.240
<v Speaker 2>may know the target in advance, it isn't intentionally choosing

536
00:26:06.240 --> 00:26:08.119
<v Speaker 2>the letters to make it easier to hit the target.

537
00:26:08.319 --> 00:26:11.400
<v Speaker 2>If it were, it wouldn't have needed sixty nine iterative tries.

538
00:26:11.440 --> 00:26:13.720
<v Speaker 2>It would have got it on the first try every time,

539
00:26:14.039 --> 00:26:15.680
<v Speaker 2>at which point you may as well just have a

540
00:26:15.720 --> 00:26:17.839
<v Speaker 2>single line of code that says print. Methinks it is

541
00:26:17.880 --> 00:26:20.400
<v Speaker 2>like a weasel, which would then completely defeat the purpose

542
00:26:20.480 --> 00:26:22.039
<v Speaker 2>of using this as an analogy.

543
00:26:23.359 --> 00:26:27.519
<v Speaker 3>Natural selection doesn't have any intelligence to make such a decision.

544
00:26:27.799 --> 00:26:31.680
<v Speaker 2>Indeed, but it doesn't need it. Remember, natural selection and

545
00:26:31.759 --> 00:26:36.039
<v Speaker 2>mutations are two separate things. Random mutations happen. If a

546
00:26:36.119 --> 00:26:38.720
<v Speaker 2>mutation provides as recipient with a benefit of some kind

547
00:26:38.759 --> 00:26:41.240
<v Speaker 2>in its environment, the recipient will be more likely to

548
00:26:41.279 --> 00:26:43.720
<v Speaker 2>survive and reproduce, even if only by a little bit.

549
00:26:43.880 --> 00:26:47.240
<v Speaker 2>That is natural selection, the favorable traits tendency to proliferate.

550
00:26:47.599 --> 00:26:50.119
<v Speaker 2>It does not matter where those traits came from or

551
00:26:50.119 --> 00:26:52.599
<v Speaker 2>what they are. It's simply the fact that ones that

552
00:26:52.640 --> 00:26:56.680
<v Speaker 2>help an organism survive will themselves survive along with those organisms.

553
00:26:56.880 --> 00:26:59.000
<v Speaker 2>To bring it back to the program, there are several

554
00:26:59.000 --> 00:27:02.519
<v Speaker 2>functions which served to from purposes. The mutate function goes

555
00:27:02.519 --> 00:27:04.519
<v Speaker 2>through the characters of the parent and mutates them at

556
00:27:04.519 --> 00:27:06.880
<v Speaker 2>a predetermined rate zero point zero five in this case,

557
00:27:06.920 --> 00:27:08.920
<v Speaker 2>meaning that each character has a five percent chance of

558
00:27:09.000 --> 00:27:11.839
<v Speaker 2>mutating to a random character. The fitness function goes through

559
00:27:11.839 --> 00:27:14.039
<v Speaker 2>the characters of the child and the target phrase and

560
00:27:14.079 --> 00:27:15.920
<v Speaker 2>sees how much of it is a match, giving it

561
00:27:15.960 --> 00:27:18.799
<v Speaker 2>a fitness score. The program creates one hundred children in

562
00:27:18.839 --> 00:27:21.119
<v Speaker 2>every attempt and selects the one with the highest fitness

563
00:27:21.160 --> 00:27:23.519
<v Speaker 2>score to be the parent for the next attempt, discarding

564
00:27:23.559 --> 00:27:26.799
<v Speaker 2>the other ninety nine. So in this program, the mutate

565
00:27:26.839 --> 00:27:30.079
<v Speaker 2>function is the process of mutation and the fitness function

566
00:27:30.319 --> 00:27:34.079
<v Speaker 2>is the selection process natural selection. The fitness function does

567
00:27:34.079 --> 00:27:37.119
<v Speaker 2>not interact directly with the mutate function. It just looks

568
00:27:37.119 --> 00:27:39.720
<v Speaker 2>at the results that the mutate function provides and decides

569
00:27:39.759 --> 00:27:43.039
<v Speaker 2>which one has the highest fitness score. Now, obviously this

570
00:27:43.160 --> 00:27:45.559
<v Speaker 2>is not a perfect analogy to nature, but it isn't

571
00:27:45.599 --> 00:27:47.720
<v Speaker 2>meant to be. It is merely meant to show how

572
00:27:47.759 --> 00:27:50.319
<v Speaker 2>pure randomness is insufficient on its own to explain the

573
00:27:50.359 --> 00:27:53.680
<v Speaker 2>diversity of life, but it is sufficient when combined with selection.

574
00:27:55.680 --> 00:27:58.119
<v Speaker 3>You know, it doesn't know what the goal is. In fact,

575
00:27:58.119 --> 00:28:00.519
<v Speaker 3>it doesn't understand goals. It doesn't have any understanding, It

576
00:28:00.519 --> 00:28:04.160
<v Speaker 3>doesn't have any intelligence. It don't know squat correct.

577
00:28:04.480 --> 00:28:07.319
<v Speaker 2>As already mentioned, not having a goal actually makes the

578
00:28:07.359 --> 00:28:10.200
<v Speaker 2>process easier. When our ancestors first of alved a light

579
00:28:10.240 --> 00:28:12.599
<v Speaker 2>sensitive patch of cells, it didn't matter that it began

580
00:28:12.640 --> 00:28:15.400
<v Speaker 2>a process that would eventually result in our eyes. It

581
00:28:15.480 --> 00:28:17.599
<v Speaker 2>just needed to survive better than its cousins that did

582
00:28:17.640 --> 00:28:19.119
<v Speaker 2>not have light sensitive cells.

583
00:28:21.000 --> 00:28:24.319
<v Speaker 3>You know, it doesn't have any breaks either. It can't

584
00:28:24.359 --> 00:28:27.519
<v Speaker 3>start mutations will and much less stop them. So in

585
00:28:27.559 --> 00:28:30.039
<v Speaker 3>real life, if you've got to have mutations happening, there's

586
00:28:30.079 --> 00:28:32.440
<v Speaker 3>nothing to stop them. We could have end up with

587
00:28:32.519 --> 00:28:35.319
<v Speaker 3>a sentence methinks Richard Dawkins is a weasel.

588
00:28:35.880 --> 00:28:40.119
<v Speaker 2>Yes, evolution has not stopped. It keeps going, and methinks

589
00:28:40.200 --> 00:28:42.400
<v Speaker 2>Richard Dawkins is a bit of a weasel. So there

590
00:28:42.440 --> 00:28:44.839
<v Speaker 2>you go. Actually, I take it back. Wouldn't want to

591
00:28:44.839 --> 00:28:45.960
<v Speaker 2>insult the weasels after all.

592
00:28:46.880 --> 00:28:50.759
<v Speaker 3>You know, this whole analogy is that logical hot mess.

593
00:28:51.400 --> 00:28:53.039
<v Speaker 2>When you take it farther than it was ever meant

594
00:28:53.079 --> 00:28:55.720
<v Speaker 2>to go, then yes, all it was ever supposed to

595
00:28:55.759 --> 00:28:58.279
<v Speaker 2>do is demonstrate the difference between randomness on its own

596
00:28:58.480 --> 00:29:01.279
<v Speaker 2>and randomness combined with selection. And it does that.

597
00:29:02.519 --> 00:29:05.319
<v Speaker 3>But when Richard Dawkins trots out his little dog and

598
00:29:05.400 --> 00:29:07.960
<v Speaker 3>Pony show, people like you stand up and cheer.

599
00:29:08.720 --> 00:29:12.359
<v Speaker 2>Nope, Dawkins is long past his prime, and unfortunately for him,

600
00:29:12.640 --> 00:29:16.039
<v Speaker 2>he neglected to take the opportunity to not tank his reputation.

601
00:29:17.119 --> 00:29:18.839
<v Speaker 5>You know, I don't know know if about computers to

602
00:29:18.880 --> 00:29:20.440
<v Speaker 5>doubt or even criticize Dawkins.

603
00:29:20.440 --> 00:29:22.400
<v Speaker 4>Oh how convenient. Well I do.

604
00:29:22.880 --> 00:29:25.480
<v Speaker 3>In fact, out of curiosity, I wrote a program to

605
00:29:25.519 --> 00:29:26.359
<v Speaker 3>do exactly this.

606
00:29:27.160 --> 00:29:32.519
<v Speaker 2>Oh huh. You know, I actually watched this multiple times

607
00:29:32.559 --> 00:29:34.759
<v Speaker 2>before making my video. I watched the whole of his

608
00:29:34.839 --> 00:29:37.240
<v Speaker 2>movie by myself, and then I watched it with my partner.

609
00:29:37.480 --> 00:29:40.440
<v Speaker 2>Side note, DJP Movies encouraged fornication. She told me she'd

610
00:29:40.480 --> 00:29:42.200
<v Speaker 2>have sex with me if only i'd turned the movie off.

611
00:29:42.599 --> 00:29:45.480
<v Speaker 2>Thankfully I was able to resist her feminine wiles. But

612
00:29:45.599 --> 00:29:47.079
<v Speaker 2>not all men are as strong as me, so you

613
00:29:47.160 --> 00:29:49.079
<v Speaker 2>got to watch out for that. Donald. Then I watched

614
00:29:49.119 --> 00:29:51.400
<v Speaker 2>just this interview part again, kind of watching it side

615
00:29:51.400 --> 00:29:54.279
<v Speaker 2>by side with his actual interview with Forrest. But there's

616
00:29:54.279 --> 00:29:57.319
<v Speaker 2>something about it that just stops it from becoming long

617
00:29:57.400 --> 00:30:00.240
<v Speaker 2>term memory or something. This isn't the first time he's

618
00:30:00.279 --> 00:30:02.960
<v Speaker 2>surprised me in this watch through where I was scripting.

619
00:30:03.359 --> 00:30:06.119
<v Speaker 2>I honestly had no idea that he'd already written a

620
00:30:06.119 --> 00:30:08.839
<v Speaker 2>similar program, despite my having him seen him say that

621
00:30:09.160 --> 00:30:11.799
<v Speaker 2>at least three times by now, though, I would actually

622
00:30:11.799 --> 00:30:13.839
<v Speaker 2>like to see his program. Maybe he'll pull it out

623
00:30:13.880 --> 00:30:15.599
<v Speaker 2>of my memory hole and surprise me again. But I'm

624
00:30:15.599 --> 00:30:18.279
<v Speaker 2>pretty sure he doesn't chose code in this particular movie.

625
00:30:18.400 --> 00:30:23.400
<v Speaker 2>I might be wrong, but I don't think I am.

626
00:30:21.920 --> 00:30:25.119
<v Speaker 3>Took me seventeen minutes runs in my PC in less

627
00:30:25.160 --> 00:30:27.759
<v Speaker 3>than a second. It took about eight thousand on average

628
00:30:27.880 --> 00:30:30.279
<v Speaker 3>mutations to spell out the whole phrase.

629
00:30:30.279 --> 00:30:30.759
<v Speaker 5>All right.

630
00:30:30.920 --> 00:30:32.839
<v Speaker 2>I also forgot that I skipped his explanation of what

631
00:30:32.880 --> 00:30:35.519
<v Speaker 2>he thought the program was. He misremembered what it was

632
00:30:35.559 --> 00:30:38.519
<v Speaker 2>actually doing. Based on his explanation, he would have started

633
00:30:38.559 --> 00:30:40.400
<v Speaker 2>from one letter and then either kept it if it

634
00:30:40.400 --> 00:30:42.839
<v Speaker 2>happened to be the correct letter, or else randomly mutated

635
00:30:43.000 --> 00:30:44.640
<v Speaker 2>and only moved on to the next letter once it

636
00:30:44.680 --> 00:30:46.720
<v Speaker 2>had a correct letter, rather than doing a full twenty

637
00:30:46.759 --> 00:30:48.720
<v Speaker 2>eight characters at a time. And it actually still kind

638
00:30:48.720 --> 00:30:50.640
<v Speaker 2>of works for the analogy that way, if you're allowed

639
00:30:50.680 --> 00:30:52.720
<v Speaker 2>to keep the stuff that already exists as a foundation

640
00:30:52.759 --> 00:30:54.759
<v Speaker 2>to build on it happens a lot quicker than if

641
00:30:54.799 --> 00:30:57.960
<v Speaker 2>you start from scratch every time, so pure randomness loses

642
00:30:58.039 --> 00:30:59.359
<v Speaker 2>to randomness plus selection.

643
00:31:00.160 --> 00:31:02.759
<v Speaker 4>Am I supposed to be impressed with that fat chance

644
00:31:02.799 --> 00:31:04.559
<v Speaker 4>of that? But that's not my goal?

645
00:31:05.640 --> 00:31:09.200
<v Speaker 2>Actually, yeah, what even is your goal here? You wrote

646
00:31:09.200 --> 00:31:11.799
<v Speaker 2>a program that accomplished largely the same thing as the original,

647
00:31:11.960 --> 00:31:14.240
<v Speaker 2>but you misunderstood the point and so took the analogy

648
00:31:14.279 --> 00:31:16.039
<v Speaker 2>farther than it was ever meant to go and then

649
00:31:16.079 --> 00:31:19.000
<v Speaker 2>declared victory. I don't actually get it.

650
00:31:19.960 --> 00:31:21.359
<v Speaker 4>Let me drop another name here.

651
00:31:21.960 --> 00:31:25.240
<v Speaker 3>James Tour is a scientist who likes to debate other

652
00:31:25.279 --> 00:31:28.519
<v Speaker 3>scientists using science all even though he is a Christian.

653
00:31:29.000 --> 00:31:32.279
<v Speaker 2>He's a scientist who uses science to debate science science lea.

654
00:31:34.559 --> 00:31:38.400
<v Speaker 3>But his opponents always attack his scientific arguments by labeling

655
00:31:38.480 --> 00:31:41.480
<v Speaker 3>him as a Christian and a creationist, as if that

656
00:31:41.599 --> 00:31:44.519
<v Speaker 3>invalidates any evidence that he brings to the table.

657
00:31:45.200 --> 00:31:47.759
<v Speaker 2>Tour's primary opponent, as far as I can tell, is

658
00:31:47.839 --> 00:31:52.000
<v Speaker 2>Dave Farina, of mister Farina fame, And it's been a

659
00:31:52.000 --> 00:31:54.079
<v Speaker 2>while since I've watched his stuff, but what I remember

660
00:31:54.240 --> 00:31:56.559
<v Speaker 2>was a whole lot of chemistry that I don't understand.

661
00:31:56.680 --> 00:32:00.079
<v Speaker 2>Supplemented with interviews of origin of life researchers. Yes, he

662
00:32:00.119 --> 00:32:03.000
<v Speaker 2>did call to her names, probably including creationist, but it

663
00:32:03.039 --> 00:32:05.160
<v Speaker 2>was never a matter of you are wrong because you

664
00:32:05.200 --> 00:32:07.319
<v Speaker 2>are stupid. It was always more of a you are

665
00:32:07.359 --> 00:32:10.480
<v Speaker 2>stupid and you're wrong, and here's a detailed scientific explanation

666
00:32:10.559 --> 00:32:13.119
<v Speaker 2>of why you are wrong, along with interviews of scientists

667
00:32:13.119 --> 00:32:15.599
<v Speaker 2>who you said supported your position but actually don't.

668
00:32:17.519 --> 00:32:19.880
<v Speaker 3>He goes out of his way not to mention God,

669
00:32:19.960 --> 00:32:21.920
<v Speaker 3>and they always have to bring up the fact that he.

670
00:32:21.880 --> 00:32:25.839
<v Speaker 2>Is religious, mainly because his primary audience are Christians, who

671
00:32:25.880 --> 00:32:28.319
<v Speaker 2>use his supposed expertise to prove that God had to

672
00:32:28.319 --> 00:32:30.880
<v Speaker 2>start life. But as it turns out, he's not an

673
00:32:30.880 --> 00:32:33.920
<v Speaker 2>origin of life researcher. He is a synthetic organic chemist.

674
00:32:34.200 --> 00:32:36.440
<v Speaker 2>None of his publications have anything to do with the

675
00:32:36.480 --> 00:32:39.160
<v Speaker 2>origin of life. So despite the fact that chemistry certainly

676
00:32:39.160 --> 00:32:41.160
<v Speaker 2>would have been involved at the origin of life, his

677
00:32:41.279 --> 00:32:44.440
<v Speaker 2>expertise in carbon nanotubes or whatever the fuck does not

678
00:32:44.519 --> 00:32:47.720
<v Speaker 2>translate to origin of life expertise. But on the flip side,

679
00:32:47.759 --> 00:32:50.000
<v Speaker 2>you have people like doctor Francis Collins, who is a

680
00:32:50.079 --> 00:32:52.559
<v Speaker 2>Christian and is very open about being a Christian, but

681
00:32:52.680 --> 00:32:55.400
<v Speaker 2>nobody attacks him for it. At least not that I'm

682
00:32:55.440 --> 00:32:58.359
<v Speaker 2>aware of, and that's because he doesn't bludgeon people over

683
00:32:58.359 --> 00:33:01.359
<v Speaker 2>the head with demonstrably wrong conclude usions from fields outside

684
00:33:01.359 --> 00:33:03.000
<v Speaker 2>of his expertise the way that Tour does.

685
00:33:03.720 --> 00:33:04.799
<v Speaker 4>Tour is an idiot.

686
00:33:05.119 --> 00:33:07.920
<v Speaker 3>So you've solved one of his challenges, you know. He

687
00:33:08.000 --> 00:33:10.559
<v Speaker 3>said that if anybody solves one of them, you'll take

688
00:33:10.599 --> 00:33:12.240
<v Speaker 3>down every one of his videos.

689
00:33:12.440 --> 00:33:14.279
<v Speaker 2>Oh, I didn't even know he had a challenge, but

690
00:33:14.359 --> 00:33:16.559
<v Speaker 2>I'd imagine that if anyone were to solve his challenge,

691
00:33:16.599 --> 00:33:18.680
<v Speaker 2>he'd just shift the goalpost, because we've seen that sort

692
00:33:18.680 --> 00:33:19.759
<v Speaker 2>of behavior from him before.

693
00:33:20.480 --> 00:33:23.640
<v Speaker 5>Douglas he specializes in the origins of life that does

694
00:33:23.680 --> 00:33:27.039
<v Speaker 5>not involve evolution, which is my focus, and involves the

695
00:33:27.119 --> 00:33:28.960
<v Speaker 5>changes within life, not its inception.

696
00:33:29.480 --> 00:33:31.359
<v Speaker 2>So this hits on one of the reasons why people

697
00:33:31.440 --> 00:33:34.559
<v Speaker 2>attack him for his religion. It's because he doesn't specialize

698
00:33:34.559 --> 00:33:36.599
<v Speaker 2>in the origin of life, but he does lie to

699
00:33:36.680 --> 00:33:39.359
<v Speaker 2>his audience to claim that he does, and the Christians

700
00:33:39.359 --> 00:33:41.839
<v Speaker 2>in his audience tend to believe it. But he actually

701
00:33:41.920 --> 00:33:45.680
<v Speaker 2>specializes in synthetic organic chemistry. The origin of life is

702
00:33:45.680 --> 00:33:49.000
<v Speaker 2>an intersection of biology, chemistry, geology, and even a sprinkling

703
00:33:49.000 --> 00:33:53.079
<v Speaker 2>of astronomy, synthetic organic chemistry is people making organic compounds.

704
00:33:53.279 --> 00:33:55.759
<v Speaker 2>Tour seems to specialize in material science, where he tries

705
00:33:55.799 --> 00:33:58.559
<v Speaker 2>to find new ways to make graphine. If I recall correctly,

706
00:33:58.599 --> 00:34:00.519
<v Speaker 2>there were some shenanigans in all the how his name

707
00:34:00.559 --> 00:34:02.880
<v Speaker 2>winds up on so many publications, But that's a whole

708
00:34:02.920 --> 00:34:05.640
<v Speaker 2>other can of worms. But yeah, faux Forest is correct

709
00:34:05.720 --> 00:34:07.319
<v Speaker 2>in saying that the origin of life is not the

710
00:34:07.319 --> 00:34:09.719
<v Speaker 2>same thing as evolution. Even if we knew nothing about it,

711
00:34:09.800 --> 00:34:11.719
<v Speaker 2>we could still tell you that evolution is a thing

712
00:34:11.760 --> 00:34:12.360
<v Speaker 2>that happens.

713
00:34:13.679 --> 00:34:16.159
<v Speaker 5>So, okay, just so we're on the same page, what

714
00:34:16.360 --> 00:34:17.880
<v Speaker 5>is your definition of evolution?

715
00:34:19.000 --> 00:34:20.280
<v Speaker 4>Definitions are critical.

716
00:34:20.800 --> 00:34:23.519
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, in fact, we should have started this discussion with

717
00:34:23.599 --> 00:34:29.800
<v Speaker 3>this question. Okay, my definition of evolution involves macro evolution.

718
00:34:31.239 --> 00:34:34.679
<v Speaker 3>I have no problem with micro evolution, which is changes

719
00:34:34.719 --> 00:34:36.760
<v Speaker 3>and adaptations within a species.

720
00:34:37.159 --> 00:34:40.639
<v Speaker 2>So his definition of evolution is that it includes macro evolution,

721
00:34:40.960 --> 00:34:44.400
<v Speaker 2>but microevolution is defined as changes and adaptations with his species.

722
00:34:44.880 --> 00:34:48.119
<v Speaker 2>It's a weird definition, but the actual definition, at least

723
00:34:48.159 --> 00:34:50.719
<v Speaker 2>as put forward by the Berkeley Evolution one on one website,

724
00:34:50.920 --> 00:34:53.800
<v Speaker 2>is dissent with inherited modification. But I guess you can't

725
00:34:53.800 --> 00:34:55.960
<v Speaker 2>go with that one because it covers both micro and

726
00:34:56.079 --> 00:34:59.800
<v Speaker 2>macro evolution. Since creationists can't deny microevolution, they are left

727
00:35:00.039 --> 00:35:02.840
<v Speaker 2>uggling to explain how there is some magical barrier between

728
00:35:02.880 --> 00:35:06.199
<v Speaker 2>micro and macro. Somehow the centimeters could just never add

729
00:35:06.280 --> 00:35:08.880
<v Speaker 2>up to a kilometer, The pages can never accumulate to

730
00:35:08.960 --> 00:35:11.360
<v Speaker 2>a book, the step could never rise to the level

731
00:35:11.360 --> 00:35:11.960
<v Speaker 2>of marathon.

732
00:35:13.000 --> 00:35:17.440
<v Speaker 3>Now, macro evolution is the good to you via the

733
00:35:17.599 --> 00:35:22.360
<v Speaker 3>zoo theory that all life started out as one celled

734
00:35:22.440 --> 00:35:27.679
<v Speaker 3>organisms and progressed through millions of years through gradual, non

735
00:35:27.719 --> 00:35:31.559
<v Speaker 3>directed mutations to the DNA which proved to be advantageous

736
00:35:31.599 --> 00:35:32.320
<v Speaker 3>to survival.

737
00:35:32.639 --> 00:35:36.199
<v Speaker 2>Did you hear yourself, Donald, macro evolution is the gradual

738
00:35:36.320 --> 00:35:41.519
<v Speaker 2>non directed mutations. That's small changes micro evolution that over

739
00:35:41.599 --> 00:35:45.079
<v Speaker 2>millions of years add up to big changes macro evolution.

740
00:35:45.440 --> 00:35:48.360
<v Speaker 2>You can't even define them without accidentally acknowledging that they

741
00:35:48.360 --> 00:35:50.360
<v Speaker 2>are the same thing, just with different scales.

742
00:35:51.480 --> 00:35:54.360
<v Speaker 5>Really, well, no wonder you'd have a problem with that.

743
00:35:54.519 --> 00:35:57.280
<v Speaker 5>I would have a problem with evolution based on that definition.

744
00:35:57.559 --> 00:36:00.880
<v Speaker 5>You know, evolution is so much more complex than justmutation selection.

745
00:36:01.400 --> 00:36:06.360
<v Speaker 5>First of all, microevolution demonstrates the process that leads to macroevolution,

746
00:36:06.920 --> 00:36:09.679
<v Speaker 5>and there's lots of other changes that are involved than

747
00:36:09.840 --> 00:36:10.920
<v Speaker 5>just mutation selection.

748
00:36:11.719 --> 00:36:15.360
<v Speaker 4>Are you familiar with the term epigenetics? Oh?

749
00:36:15.400 --> 00:36:18.199
<v Speaker 2>This is painful. This is almost a direct mirror of

750
00:36:18.239 --> 00:36:21.400
<v Speaker 2>his actual conversation with Forest, but he's turned Forest into

751
00:36:21.400 --> 00:36:24.400
<v Speaker 2>this impatient asshole. It also shows that he was listening

752
00:36:24.440 --> 00:36:26.519
<v Speaker 2>to the words that Forest said, but he didn't put

753
00:36:26.559 --> 00:36:30.159
<v Speaker 2>any effort into understanding them, and Forrest was constantly checking

754
00:36:30.159 --> 00:36:32.320
<v Speaker 2>in throughout the conversation to make sure that he was following,

755
00:36:32.519 --> 00:36:35.719
<v Speaker 2>but instead of asking any clarifying questions, he'd just nod

756
00:36:35.800 --> 00:36:39.920
<v Speaker 2>and say, okay, well, clearly not understanding. For example, this

757
00:36:39.960 --> 00:36:41.719
<v Speaker 2>is the end of a segment where Forrest gave what

758
00:36:41.840 --> 00:36:44.239
<v Speaker 2>I thought was a really good explanation of epigenetics directed

759
00:36:44.280 --> 00:36:45.000
<v Speaker 2>at a layperson.

760
00:36:45.599 --> 00:36:49.079
<v Speaker 7>And that's really important because in evolution, it's the phenotype

761
00:36:49.199 --> 00:36:52.840
<v Speaker 7>is the physical body that gets selected for, not the genes.

762
00:36:53.280 --> 00:36:55.159
<v Speaker 7>The genes cause the physical body, but not all of

763
00:36:55.159 --> 00:36:56.920
<v Speaker 7>them and not all the time, and so it's a

764
00:36:57.000 --> 00:36:59.239
<v Speaker 7>really important distinction. Does that make any sense what I'm saying?

765
00:37:01.719 --> 00:37:02.039
<v Speaker 6>Okay?

766
00:37:03.559 --> 00:37:06.400
<v Speaker 2>That would have been an excellent time for Donald to

767
00:37:06.440 --> 00:37:09.559
<v Speaker 2>ask some questions about aspects that he didn't understand, but

768
00:37:09.679 --> 00:37:11.679
<v Speaker 2>instead of doing that, he just wanted to move on.

769
00:37:12.199 --> 00:37:14.280
<v Speaker 2>And I may be reading too much into it here,

770
00:37:14.559 --> 00:37:16.960
<v Speaker 2>but what I sensed happened there is something that I

771
00:37:17.079 --> 00:37:21.119
<v Speaker 2>experienced myself when I was a creationist. Forrest was making sense.

772
00:37:21.480 --> 00:37:24.159
<v Speaker 2>And if Forest is right, then Gramps has a lot

773
00:37:24.199 --> 00:37:27.880
<v Speaker 2>of reevaluating to do, and that's scary, so rather than

774
00:37:27.880 --> 00:37:30.599
<v Speaker 2>look into it, he'll just move on. That happened to

775
00:37:30.639 --> 00:37:32.599
<v Speaker 2>me with astronomy and the age of the Earth. I

776
00:37:32.639 --> 00:37:35.119
<v Speaker 2>have called myself a former Young Earth creationist in the past,

777
00:37:35.280 --> 00:37:37.280
<v Speaker 2>but if you've heard me tell the story before, you'll

778
00:37:37.320 --> 00:37:40.559
<v Speaker 2>know that that's not entirely accurate. The problem was that

779
00:37:40.599 --> 00:37:43.119
<v Speaker 2>I have always loved astronomy, so I knew that there

780
00:37:43.159 --> 00:37:45.079
<v Speaker 2>were objects in the sky that we can see that

781
00:37:45.159 --> 00:37:49.440
<v Speaker 2>are thousands, millions, and billions of light years away. And

782
00:37:49.519 --> 00:37:51.159
<v Speaker 2>I knew that a light year was the distance that

783
00:37:51.239 --> 00:37:53.840
<v Speaker 2>light can travel in a year. So if an object

784
00:37:53.880 --> 00:37:56.280
<v Speaker 2>is billions of light years away, then that means the

785
00:37:56.320 --> 00:37:58.400
<v Speaker 2>light had to have been traveling from that object for

786
00:37:58.559 --> 00:38:01.440
<v Speaker 2>billions of years in order to reach us. And when

787
00:38:01.480 --> 00:38:03.880
<v Speaker 2>I started looking into the creationist answers to this problem,

788
00:38:04.079 --> 00:38:08.079
<v Speaker 2>I found them deeply unsatisfying, and that scared me, so

789
00:38:08.159 --> 00:38:10.800
<v Speaker 2>I stopped looking into it and became non specific about

790
00:38:10.800 --> 00:38:12.519
<v Speaker 2>my view on the age of the Earth. And that

791
00:38:12.679 --> 00:38:14.320
<v Speaker 2>is what I think we just saw play out between

792
00:38:14.320 --> 00:38:16.880
<v Speaker 2>Forest and Grams. I actually feel a little bit bad

793
00:38:16.880 --> 00:38:18.039
<v Speaker 2>for the guy, just.

794
00:38:18.000 --> 00:38:25.559
<v Speaker 5>A little No, okay, how about the leles No okay,

795
00:38:25.599 --> 00:38:28.559
<v Speaker 5>I thought so well, without any changes to the DNA sequencing,

796
00:38:28.800 --> 00:38:33.559
<v Speaker 5>epigenetic expression changes lead to new functionality in the phenotype

797
00:38:33.599 --> 00:38:34.920
<v Speaker 5>containing that DNA.

798
00:38:35.679 --> 00:38:37.920
<v Speaker 2>I really do love how the actor obviously had his

799
00:38:37.960 --> 00:38:39.760
<v Speaker 2>lines written on the laptop so he doesn't have to

800
00:38:39.840 --> 00:38:40.960
<v Speaker 2>remember all the big science he.

801
00:38:41.000 --> 00:38:45.400
<v Speaker 5>Words, and the natural stressors also lead to such alterations.

802
00:38:45.760 --> 00:38:48.239
<v Speaker 5>Without such knowledge, Douglas, you're not equipped to just go

803
00:38:48.400 --> 00:38:50.559
<v Speaker 5>poking holes in any scientific theory.

804
00:38:50.719 --> 00:38:53.159
<v Speaker 2>And science wins because the science guy threw out a

805
00:38:53.199 --> 00:38:56.599
<v Speaker 2>bunch of complicated science words. I'm sure that's how Grams

806
00:38:56.639 --> 00:38:59.920
<v Speaker 2>actually thinks this conversation went. It's it's sad. I know

807
00:39:00.079 --> 00:39:01.719
<v Speaker 2>I said that already, but it is sad.

808
00:39:02.639 --> 00:39:05.760
<v Speaker 3>You know, to rephrase the old chicken versus egg question,

809
00:39:06.639 --> 00:39:11.679
<v Speaker 3>which came first DNA or the first mutation brought it about?

810
00:39:11.719 --> 00:39:15.000
<v Speaker 2>A change that depends on which hypothesis about a biogenesis

811
00:39:15.039 --> 00:39:17.239
<v Speaker 2>is correct, and what you consider to be a mutation.

812
00:39:17.599 --> 00:39:20.440
<v Speaker 2>If the RNA world hypothesis is true, for instance, then

813
00:39:20.559 --> 00:39:24.880
<v Speaker 2>mutations predate DNA. If metabolism first is true, then something

814
00:39:24.960 --> 00:39:27.880
<v Speaker 2>like mutations would have been happening, but without genetic material,

815
00:39:27.920 --> 00:39:30.840
<v Speaker 2>they wouldn't really fit the definition of a mutation. But

816
00:39:30.960 --> 00:39:33.559
<v Speaker 2>I doubt Gramps is aware of either hypothesis, So let's

817
00:39:33.599 --> 00:39:35.400
<v Speaker 2>rephrase his question to be more in line with what

818
00:39:35.480 --> 00:39:39.559
<v Speaker 2>he probably understands. Which came first genetic material or mutations

819
00:39:39.599 --> 00:39:42.719
<v Speaker 2>to genetic material? And when phrased that way, the answer

820
00:39:42.719 --> 00:39:46.559
<v Speaker 2>becomes rather obvious genetic material and.

821
00:39:46.519 --> 00:39:48.519
<v Speaker 4>Why you're struggling with that conundrum?

822
00:39:49.000 --> 00:39:50.920
<v Speaker 2>Oh, I'm sorry, I forgot that I was supposed to

823
00:39:50.960 --> 00:39:53.039
<v Speaker 2>be struggling with that for a bit. My bad.

824
00:39:53.800 --> 00:39:56.280
<v Speaker 3>I'm going to throw out the bold statement that only

825
00:39:56.320 --> 00:39:59.599
<v Speaker 3>a creator could explain the coding sequences that we find

826
00:39:59.639 --> 00:40:01.079
<v Speaker 3>in DA.

827
00:40:01.119 --> 00:40:03.679
<v Speaker 2>Why is it because you're a computer guy and so

828
00:40:03.719 --> 00:40:06.519
<v Speaker 2>your understanding of code is in the programming sense, Because

829
00:40:06.559 --> 00:40:09.480
<v Speaker 2>that's not actually how DNA works. That is an analogy

830
00:40:09.519 --> 00:40:12.440
<v Speaker 2>that is sometimes helpful to high school students, but ultimately

831
00:40:12.519 --> 00:40:16.079
<v Speaker 2>DNA works through chemical reactions, not instructions being carried out.

832
00:40:16.239 --> 00:40:19.039
<v Speaker 2>The presence or absence of different chemicals or enzymes and

833
00:40:19.079 --> 00:40:22.599
<v Speaker 2>whatever will change how the DNA is expressed. That's why

834
00:40:22.639 --> 00:40:24.880
<v Speaker 2>your eye cells know to be eye cells, even though

835
00:40:24.880 --> 00:40:27.039
<v Speaker 2>they have all the genetic material necessary to be liver

836
00:40:27.119 --> 00:40:29.360
<v Speaker 2>cells or bone cells or muscle cells or whatever.

837
00:40:30.400 --> 00:40:31.960
<v Speaker 5>Well, let me throw out a name for you, Douglas

838
00:40:31.960 --> 00:40:35.280
<v Speaker 5>Stephen Hawking. Stephen Hawking said religion is a fairy tale

839
00:40:35.360 --> 00:40:36.639
<v Speaker 5>for people afraid of the dark.

840
00:40:37.000 --> 00:40:40.239
<v Speaker 3>Hum And John Lennox said that atheism is a fairy

841
00:40:40.239 --> 00:40:42.519
<v Speaker 3>tale for people afraid of the light.

842
00:40:43.199 --> 00:40:47.199
<v Speaker 2>Okay, So Hawking said something that isn't relevant to this discussion,

843
00:40:47.239 --> 00:40:50.519
<v Speaker 2>and John Lennox responded with n uh, I'm not the

844
00:40:50.559 --> 00:40:54.239
<v Speaker 2>scaredy pants. You're the one who the scaredy pants. I'm

845
00:40:54.280 --> 00:40:56.719
<v Speaker 2>not sure what was supposed to be accomplished with that,

846
00:40:56.880 --> 00:41:00.320
<v Speaker 2>but okay.

847
00:41:00.559 --> 00:41:03.400
<v Speaker 5>Lennox is a mathematician and a senile old man.

848
00:41:03.480 --> 00:41:05.960
<v Speaker 2>And Hawking was a cosmologist, so why he was brought

849
00:41:06.000 --> 00:41:08.800
<v Speaker 2>up in a discussion on evolution is beyond me. That's

850
00:41:08.840 --> 00:41:10.760
<v Speaker 2>basically the end of this segment of the movie. The

851
00:41:10.800 --> 00:41:13.079
<v Speaker 2>rest of the movie is his hot daughter winning debates

852
00:41:13.119 --> 00:41:15.960
<v Speaker 2>with fau Forest because she distracts him with her feminine wiles,

853
00:41:16.000 --> 00:41:19.159
<v Speaker 2>before eventually converting him to Christianity with the question what

854
00:41:19.320 --> 00:41:25.079
<v Speaker 2>is love? Baby? Don't hurt me. Don't hurt me now more.

855
00:41:25.440 --> 00:41:27.360
<v Speaker 2>I won't subject you to that, though I did just

856
00:41:27.360 --> 00:41:29.679
<v Speaker 2>subject you to my singing, which is arguably worse than

857
00:41:29.679 --> 00:41:32.159
<v Speaker 2>that today's common to today. It comes to us from

858
00:41:32.199 --> 00:41:34.719
<v Speaker 2>phil Lepperchhn six two four zero, who says, I wish

859
00:41:34.760 --> 00:41:36.239
<v Speaker 2>I could remember where I heard or read it, but

860
00:41:36.280 --> 00:41:38.599
<v Speaker 2>I saw something that said Nero's persecution of Christians was

861
00:41:38.599 --> 00:41:41.159
<v Speaker 2>actually a fabrication of Eusebius in the fourth century CE.

862
00:41:41.599 --> 00:41:44.320
<v Speaker 2>Sounds like something from maybe Apologia or Mythvisions, but I

863
00:41:44.320 --> 00:41:48.000
<v Speaker 2>don't recall well. Regardless of where you heard it, it

864
00:41:48.039 --> 00:41:50.679
<v Speaker 2>doesn't pass the sniff test for me. Tacitus was writing

865
00:41:50.679 --> 00:41:52.920
<v Speaker 2>about Neuro persecuting Christians in the first half of the

866
00:41:52.960 --> 00:41:56.320
<v Speaker 2>second century, and scholars nearly unanimously agree that the relevant

867
00:41:56.320 --> 00:42:00.800
<v Speaker 2>passage is authentic. Suetonius also noted that under Nero, punishment

868
00:42:00.840 --> 00:42:02.960
<v Speaker 2>was inflicted on the Christians, a class of men given

869
00:42:02.960 --> 00:42:05.960
<v Speaker 2>to a new and mischievous superstition. So I'm not sure

870
00:42:06.000 --> 00:42:09.000
<v Speaker 2>how a guy writing several centuries afterward could have invented it.

871
00:42:09.519 --> 00:42:11.480
<v Speaker 2>Thanks for watching. I'll be back next Friday with more,

872
00:42:11.519 --> 00:42:12.679
<v Speaker 2>but if you need to get your ryno fix in

873
00:42:12.719 --> 00:42:14.440
<v Speaker 2>before then. I last stream of service every Wednesday eight

874
00:42:14.440 --> 00:42:16.239
<v Speaker 2>thirty Eastern on my other channel, The Watering Hole, and

875
00:42:16.320 --> 00:42:18.800
<v Speaker 2>periodically published shorts on the channel of Vice Rhino Shorts.

876
00:42:18.880 --> 00:42:20.760
<v Speaker 2>Thanks to Piper for being my editor, and special thanks

877
00:42:20.800 --> 00:42:22.920
<v Speaker 2>as always to my patrons, who are the bad movies

878
00:42:22.960 --> 00:42:25.000
<v Speaker 2>made by the sad old Man. That is my channel.

879
00:42:25.199 --> 00:42:27.119
<v Speaker 2>If you'd like to make a movie about how friends

880
00:42:27.119 --> 00:42:30.760
<v Speaker 2>don't let friends be Jewish, seriously, that's one he made, go.

881
00:42:34.559 --> 00:42:34.920
<v Speaker 7>Hangou.

882
00:42:35.440 --> 00:42:37.000
<v Speaker 2>You can join us on Patreon for as little as

883
00:42:37.000 --> 00:42:38.719
<v Speaker 2>a dollar per week over at patreon dot com, slash

884
00:42:38.800 --> 00:42:40.440
<v Speaker 2>Vice Rhino, or by supporting the channel and one of

885
00:42:40.440 --> 00:42:41.800
<v Speaker 2>the other methods that can be found at links dot

886
00:42:41.880 --> 00:42:44.079
<v Speaker 2>vicerono dot com, which is also where you'll find links

887
00:42:44.119 --> 00:42:45.960
<v Speaker 2>to my other projects. If for whatever reason you want

888
00:42:45.960 --> 00:42:47.960
<v Speaker 2>to send me stuff, my pobox addresses in the description

889
00:42:48.280 --> 00:43:20.239
<v Speaker 2>see and next time. H Okay, you know what's coming.

890
00:43:20.840 --> 00:43:22.800
<v Speaker 2>You know what's coming. It's double O seven dan, the

891
00:43:22.960 --> 00:43:24.960
<v Speaker 2>ln dan and then then then the lun dan and

892
00:43:25.039 --> 00:43:25.760
<v Speaker 2>then then