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Speaker 1: Welcome to another episode of Our Interesting Times. It's my

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pleasure to have Jay Dyer back on the show. Well, Jay,

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how you doing.

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Speaker 2: Been great time. Always glad to be on Our Interesting

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Times because our times are interesting.

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Speaker 1: Very interesting in the worst kind of a way. And

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of course you are the proprietor of Jays Analysis jaysnalysis

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dot com. You're the author of So Teror Hollywood Sex

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Cults and Symbolism in Film, And I understand you are

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taping a very important series of I guess television shows

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for the Guide Network. Been very busy, so I'm very

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appreciative your time with me tonight. Thank you, And I

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guess you're finishing up later on this week with those seat.

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Speaker 2: Thank you for those kind words. Yeah, we've finished eleven

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episodes and we'll finish six seventeen or eighteen by the

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end of this week. And yeah, it's gonna be a

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lot of really really cool stuff movie a movie analysis

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kind of Ciskel and Ebers style show that really doesn't exist.

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I don't think there's another Cisco Ebert style show that

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that does film analysis, you know the way that I

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do it, and it kind of linked up well with

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the style of Jay Weedener the way he does film analysis.

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You know, we have we have a good chemistry, a

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good rapport, so we kind of just go back and

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forth and give our thoughts and and and impressions of

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these seminal films and shows and kind of dissect them,

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you know. And it ties in well with Dave mcgallan's

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work a lot of the stuff that we're going to

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be talking about tonight, and we referenced, you know, Dave

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quite a bit. You know, my work kind of builds

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on that, as well as Michael Hoppins worked too. So

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it's it's gonna be neat. It's it's gonna be I think,

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very high quality. It's not it's not stupid, it's not fluffy.

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It's going to be pretty hardcore. But it all would

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be a lot of satire and comedy and you know,

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joking around. Hopefully too. They may edit out on my

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Maybe they sounded like they were laughing in the control room,

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but I can tell, so maybe maybe they're laughing at

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how bad it was, And I don't know. I hope

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my impersonation, you know, don't get edited out, but they

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may end up on the cutting room floor.

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Speaker 1: Sorry, what's the name of that show.

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Speaker 2: It'll be called Hollywood Decoded.

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Speaker 1: Hollywood you code it, okay, And that's going to air

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on the on the Guide network, and people, I guess

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subscribe that I don't.

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Speaker 2: Have to be by subscription. But as I understand, you

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know this is it's anywhere streaming service and it's also

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on some cable and satellite, so if you have Amazon

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Prime and that kind of stuff, you can get it too.

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Speaker 1: So oh excellently I do. Okay, so I can watch it.

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Speaker 2: It should be on all those Yeah, okay, I'm pretty

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sure that's right. I'm pretty sure Amazon has Gaya, but

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many to check on that. But but yeah, so we've

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got some of the some good stuff lined up for

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season one. We've got David Lynch, and we've got some Kubrick,

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and we've got some Ridley Scott, Blade Runner and the

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Alien franchise and some X Files. Uh so there's a

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there's a good lineup and then a lot more to come,

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you know. If this does well, we'll do another another

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two seasons on top of that.

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Speaker 1: So great, And of course a lot of those movies

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I do after watching or listening reading your analysis, listening

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to your analysis, you can go re watch some of

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the movies that Mayson little Strange, particularly David Lynch films,

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and you can really there's your analysis really helps.

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Speaker 2: And a lot of people were saying that, they say,

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when they get in the book, they kind of read

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my book and then they watched the movie and then

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read the chapter and watch the movie. So it's you know,

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it ends up being kind of a fun, fun thing,

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and I think the show will be too, because we

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have clips that we're playing too, so it's not just

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sitting you know, me sitting there talking with Jay Weedner.

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It's also you know, important sections of the film and yeah,

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you know the images and the scenes and what's going on.

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Speaker 1: So your analysis of Ernest goes the campus particularly enlightening

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there was.

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Speaker 2: I wrote that as a joke, and then I had

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people who they didn't think it was a joke and

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they were like, do you really think this is about this?

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And it says satire on there.

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Speaker 1: Okay, it's great, and of course, listeners here if you

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want to support Jay regularly, you can support his website

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for five a month, sixty dollars a year. That's the

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regular thing. Support his research. Okay, Well, tonight, you've did

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a an excellent analysis of Dave McGowan's Program to Kill.

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We've talked touched on it before in the past, and

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our previous talks, I think our first conversation we talked

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a lot about that, but just touched on it, and

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you did a almost a two hour analysis of it,

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and of course I wanted to talk about that in

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light of the maybe Michael Hoffman's analysis of the serial

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killer phenomenon, particularly the ritualistic aspect of it and the

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alchemical process that he believes that's involved with it. A

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broader issue of sort of the societal degradation debasement that

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occurred in the nineteen sixties and seventies into the eighties.

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Of course, in the context of the Vietnam War, the

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development of feminism, and all the psychological warfare that the

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American people were being have been subjected to since the

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Second World War. So, hey, how do you want how

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do you go on dive into it?

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Speaker 2: Well, I guess I could point out that in my

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own experience, Uh, you know, I didn't grow up during

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that period. I grew up in the eighties, so I

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didn't know much about that era except through my dad.

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My dad was into led Zappelin in the doors, and

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you know, he would always play those albums, and that

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was really the only experience I had of it until I,

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you know, got to be older and started reading and

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getting into history and trying to make sense of what

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had been happening, especially in the United States. And then

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I think in my twenties, about twenty four or five,

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I read Hoffman's book and that was a big piece

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of the puzzle for me. It was a big awakening

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stage for me. I think I've got my society Psychological.

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My copy is dated in two thousand and six. So

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he really opened up, I guess, a new way to

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look at things, and in a broadway. So he's really

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tying in the ideas of Hollywood and mass culture, pop culture,

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with the military industrial complex and with secret societies in

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the occult and you know how the Pentagon used the

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psychological warfare and ritual crimes and how it all kind

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of connects us. So I think he's maybe one of

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the best figures that you could point to that kind

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of laid out a more coherent, unified field theory of conspiracy,

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because you know, I think prior to I mean, maybe

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you can find somebody I don't know, but I mean

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when I think back to conspiracy texts written prior to

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two thousand and one, which is when he published his book,

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you know, you would get books that might deal with

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a certain topic, like you know, there would be books

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on the Templars, and there would be a book on

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the Masons, and very limited subject matter. But I think

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Hoffman's book is a step towards meta analysis, where he's

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really trying to put all these pieces together, and he

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ties in, you know, the theological aspects too, like making

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sense of what happened in the Catholic Church and Vatican

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two and beyond, and it just made a lot more sense,

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I think. And so I was and I was a

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traditional Roman Catholic at the time, attending the Latin Mass

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and so forth. So so Hoffen had a big impact

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on me. And then I realized that he was kind

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of the first person I read that did kind of

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an esotery movie analysis. So he kind of gave me

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the idea, or I got the idea to do that

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style from his analysis of conspiracy theory. He read a

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book or an essay on that a long time ago

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that's kind of famous. So so it's just it's a

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gray all around book introduction. It's usually what I tell

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people who are new to the topic to read as

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an introduction. And I mean, I'm not sure where to

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start with it, just because he talks about so many

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things too. But Dave's book is a great companion to

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that book because they're kind of in the same vein.

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They do overlap at times. Even though the focus of

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Program to Kill is more just on ritual crime, he's

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not really dealing with you know, theology or history per se.

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But one of the things that Dave starts out with

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that really impressed me in his book was that he

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he looks like he read most of the material that's

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published dealing with you know, MK ultra and mind control.

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So you know, there's Jose Delgado's Physical Control of the Mind,

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and there's Donald Bain's Control of Kenny Jones and Walter

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Bowart's book Operation mind Control and John Marxist book and

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I've read a lot of these, but I haven't read

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all of them. And I've read a lot of these two.

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And so you know, Hoppins book kind of kicked me

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off on that eleven or twelve years ago, and then

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I read Jay Stevens's book Storming Heaven, which is also

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kind of along the same path as Weird scenes inside

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the Canyon, but not a little more water down, a

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little more mainstream. And I read that a long time ago,

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and that kind of got me thinking, you know, that

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maybe a lot of what we were told about the

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sixties counter culture revolution was not what was really going on,

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and that maybe that wasn't real. And I had my

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own experiences of going to concerts and you know, being

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around so called hippies and that people of that counterculture mindset,

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because you know, you start noticing as you get older

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that it's really just different costumes and dressings that people

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are wearing who are being counterculture. Right, So it's like

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the counterculture of my period when I was, you know,

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eighteen nineteen, it was Nirvana, it was Pearl Jam, it

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was alternative music, it was you know, that was just

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the next phase of the cultural dressing. And you start

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to realize that a lot of this stuff is not organic.

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It's actually top down. It's it's corporate, it's it's sold, uh,

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and that's it runs contrary to what the whole ethos

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is is that it's supposed to be an organic counter

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culture movement. And then I think, you know, just as

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you get older, you read more and you learn more,

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and you realize that, uh, you know, the people who

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run society are not idiots. They're they're very adept, and

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they're masters of the scientific, scientific process, a scientific technique

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of mass psychology. So I know I would even still

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recommend probably Jim Keats's book Mass Control. It's it's a

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good introduction to this topic, and it fits well with

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Michaels Hoffin's book and Dave McGowan's book. But anyway, just

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to kind of set the stage, you know, I just

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started diving into all these books, and you know, there

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really is a dearth of evidence to suggest that uh

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wait is that the right word. I'm kind of I'm

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kind of tired. Amount of earth is dearth?

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Speaker 1: Dearth be a lack of or ending of it.

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Speaker 2: There is an excess, excuse me, an abundance, an abundance

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of evident to suggest that that the counterculture movements are essentially,

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you know, engineered, and that's that's the main point here.

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And you said, well, how could that be? Why would

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that be? Well, when you look at what the Pentagon

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was studying, what the military was studying back into the thirties,

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forties and fifties what the advertising agencies were studying, and

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it was mass psychology, mass sociology, uh, and the mind

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of man. And if you could master the mind of man,

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then you could master the mass mind. And so all

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of these studies and all this research that the establishment

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put into mind control and physical control of the mind

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and all this kind of stuff. Uh, it manifested itself

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in all these very bizarre things, like you know, one

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of the in Keltry doctors, doctor Jolli and West, gives

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a whole bunch of LSD to elephants just to see

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what it what it'll do. Uh. And you can go

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on on YouTube and still see a lot of these

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this old archive footage of some of these Stanford research

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experiments too, where they're giving giving LSD to all these

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animals and monkeys and h seeing what it does. And uh,

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well you can watch the spider webs that were created

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by spiders that were given LSD and how they're all

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messed up and their webs don't work, and so that

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I mean, they really perfected. I think the the chemical

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approach to biological warfare is what this amounts and that's

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why it was classed eventually under a biological warfare. So

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so that's what impressed me about Dave's book, and having

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now read a lot of these books that he references,

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I think I have a better, a much better picture

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of how the the studies of multiple personality slash disassociative

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identity disorder was of central import along with hypnotism for

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so many decades. And I think that you could argue

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that this is probably perfected. And of course, you know,

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Colin Ross has a lot of lectures and books that

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deal with the same topics too, so I think there's

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definitely something to this. Now there's a lot of disinformation

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that says that there's no such thing as you know,

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fractured personalities and this kind of stuff, But I mean,

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it makes a lot more sense if this is true. Now.

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I've had my own experiences with LSD when I was seventeen,

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so I know firsthand what happens. I had a bat

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trip the first time I did it, and so I

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understand the potentials and how it can cause multiple or

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fractured personality. Now, I mean, I don't think that I

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have alternate personality or anything like that. But what I'm

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saying is that I know the process of what happens

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in throughout the acid trip, so I can see how

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these kinds of things occur. And if you read John

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Marx's book, he talks about that too. He talks about

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how they had actually studied the trip process and how

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it could cause dissociation. And then you get these popularizers,

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right who go out into the pop culture who sell

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it like Timothy Leary. Now, Timothy Leary attaches all this

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esoteric stuff to it, and this is where you get

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the whole idea of promoting the archaic revival and indigenous

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religious traditions and all this kind of stuff attached to

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LSD and the promotion of hallucinogens. And I don't think

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we need to rehearse the Henry Loose Time.

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Speaker 1: We all know that's yeah, yeah, Time nine Life magazine.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, You've done plenty of interviews on that. And so

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you know, you start to notice all these things and

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all these these puzzle pieces that just don't make sense

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to be a counterculture revolution, you know. And of course

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that's that's the thesis of weird Scenes inside the Canyon,

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you know. And I think he argues as well in there.

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That's our culture movement to whatever degrees. Maybe the anti

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war movement, you know, was a organic and legitimate was

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eventually taken over and turned into just kind of this

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Dionyssian bas passion type of thing where you know, Jim

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Morrison's up there like having sex with the speaker on

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the stage while he's bombed out of his mind on drugs. Right,

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it just turns into turns it to total total chaos basically.

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And and this chaos and dissociation I think you can

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see it reflected in the artwork that was promoted like

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Jackson Pollock and Andy Warhol, and you know a lot

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of these CIA aided characters, these Frankfurt school type characters,

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and so to boil it all down, I mean, you

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really have. It's what Adorno talked about, you know, from

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the frankfur School, that that if you promote inversion and

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the perversion, you could really destroy the social order. And

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these lackos, of these sickos really believed that you had

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to destroy the social order to fix things. So that's

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that's I think the setting for for the sixties. It

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was a whole bunch of things that was psychological warfare.

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It was a lot of large scale testing of cults

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of alternative lifestyles quote unquote, You've you know, you've done

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talks with with John Adams. I've done interviews with John Adams,

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and he talks a lot about how California was kind

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of set up to be this mecca for the for

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the alternative lifestyle, you know, as well as promoting kind

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of the Silicon Valley military industrial complex, aerospace stuff, you know,

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up towards Sacramento. You know, if you didn't like that,

299
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you could go down to La or San Francisco or

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hate Ashbury or something, get involved in whatever cult you wanted, right,

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So it's really you just have this cornucopia of test

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tubes I think going on throughout the sixties. And I

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think that LSD was given on a mass scale on purpose.

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I think that was by design absolutely. You know, when

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you look into the history of the drug war, you

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start to realize why that would be very plausible, especially

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given the importation of cocaine and crack for you know,

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the black neighborhoods and stuff like that. We figure out,

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but that's all true. So it just makes more it

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makes a lot more sense that the culture is controlled

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and studied and created much more than it is, you know,

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any kind of organic process. And so that's the setting,

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that's the zeitgeist for both Hoffmann's book and Dave McGowan's book.

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Speaker 1: Yes You Have a Program to Kill. And now the

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way it's structured is he introduces the book first with

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organized elite pedophilia, the pediocricy I think, and I think

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the first eighty or ninety pages talks about the Mark

318
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de trou Fair and these various exposure of pedophilic networks

319
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and we all just in recent news and just in

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our research, alternative research into the deep state and some

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of the intrigues of the intelligence agencies, the function that

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that serves that child, that human trafficking, particularly with blackmail

323
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and human compromise.

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Speaker 2: Well, what's interesting too is that both of these books,

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Hawfins's book was written in two thousand and one and

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Dave's books written in two thousand and four. And here

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00:19:38,400 --> 00:19:44,519
we are. You know, it's twenty seventeen. And I had

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hawfins book a long time ago, and I would give

329
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this book out. People were calling me crazy. They would

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hand it back to me. I read the first chapter.

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Here take this back, yeah.

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Speaker 1: And I'm sure that.

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Speaker 2: I'm sure Dave's I'm sure Dave's book was received the

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same way. I only read, you know, for Gom to

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Kill fairly recently. But yeah, but the point, my point

336
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is just that look at how much of this has

337
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been vindicated, you know, in the last few years. So

338
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these are prescient books. And for me, you know, I mean,

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I don't want to be vindicated on this awful dark stuff,

340
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but you know, it makes me realize that I'm not

341
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actually crazy. So all the people who you know called

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me nuts over the last fifteen years or whatever, well.

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Speaker 1: I get that. I say, when people call someone calls

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me crazy, I said, no, you're just ignorant. Yeah, then

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they get offenders. Will you just called me nuts, which

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is worse? Yeah, right, you just don't understand what they

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don't understand it.

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Speaker 2: I'm not mean, I don't, right, I don't mean to

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be arrogant, but I mean, ninety nine percent of the

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time when when people are operating that way, they've not

351
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read any of this stuff. No, they don't have any

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working knowledge of this material.

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Speaker 1: So yeah, it's yeah, it's someone and you're you don't

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have the patience or the election to be tutored on

355
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this stuff. So I'm not gonna waste my time, you know,

356
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just do the research, come back in five years, and

357
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then we'll talk about it. And that's what it takes.

358
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That's the problem is there's no substitute for for understanding

359
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these things other than just doing the research, reading the

360
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material and thinking about it and also holding out that,

361
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you know, there are some some of these things that

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there's nothing wrong with saying I don't know, I don't

363
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know for sure. You know, there's bias against there's a

364
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bias towards certainty, and some of these things we don't

365
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have certainty uh with. We have to infer, have to

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you know, uh speculate uh based on on the on

367
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the information we have, you know, and that's only natural.

368
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I don't know. What people expect, they get. They create

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a usually high standard. It's selective too, because they'll they'll

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accept that the narratives and other things not any without

371
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any evidence, or just because they're told something, you know,

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because Walter Kronkake told them something.

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Speaker 3: Or they're you know, yes, Brian Williams, there's a brilliant Yeah,

374
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go ahead, there's a brilliant, brilliant point that Dave makes

375
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in The Program to Kill at one point where he says, yeah,

376
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we're supposed to believe that the CIA never really got

377
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anywhere within k Ultra.

378
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Speaker 2: It didn't really teach them anything about mind control and

379
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how to brainwash people, and you know, they just kind

380
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of let this go after the hearings and all this stuff. However,

381
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we are at the same time supposed to believe, from

382
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the official sources that all of these cult leaders have

383
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perfected the process of my control. Right, so it's a

384
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double Jim Jones, David Press and Jim Jones are masters

385
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of mind control, but the CIA and Pentagon, they just

386
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don't have a clue on it.

387
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Speaker 1: Yeah, with an unlimited budget technology at their disposal. On Yeah,

388
00:22:48,839 --> 00:22:51,759
that's I mean, that was the the subtext or the

389
00:22:51,759 --> 00:22:55,400
the argument of Charles Manson's conviction. He makes this very

390
00:22:55,440 --> 00:22:59,119
point is the assumption of my control on the part

391
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of Charles Manson. Mm hmm, because he apparently, you know,

392
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the the the the killers uh went out, you know,

393
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and performed the massacres and they're convicted, but they're they're there.

394
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We were to understand that they were they were they

395
00:23:15,240 --> 00:23:19,200
were controlled zombies and the Saint Charles Manson, who according

396
00:23:19,200 --> 00:23:21,559
the official narrative, was never at any any of the

397
00:23:21,599 --> 00:23:27,200
scenes was convicted, right, And it makes no sense from

398
00:23:27,240 --> 00:23:28,880
a legal stuff, yet they did it.

399
00:23:28,960 --> 00:23:34,559
Speaker 2: You know, yeah, that's yeah exactly. And you know, I

400
00:23:35,400 --> 00:23:38,519
just liked the the approach because, you know, Dave's willing

401
00:23:38,559 --> 00:23:43,920
to he's willing to look at the arguments of the skeptics.

402
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And one of the problems is that, you know, skeptics

403
00:23:46,680 --> 00:23:51,440
who said that there's not any substance to disassociate of

404
00:23:51,480 --> 00:23:55,000
identity disorder or to any of this stuff, is that

405
00:23:55,039 --> 00:23:58,039
they generally don't take into account all of the abundance

406
00:23:58,160 --> 00:24:02,680
of for example, material in Dave's book. Right, So you'll

407
00:24:02,680 --> 00:24:04,960
get these people who try to debunk things, but they

408
00:24:05,000 --> 00:24:08,839
never deal with, you know, like the totality of the

409
00:24:08,839 --> 00:24:12,680
three hundred and fifty pages of this book. You know what,

410
00:24:12,920 --> 00:24:16,400
what what about all this? Right? I mean, it's I mean,

411
00:24:16,400 --> 00:24:21,839
I can I understand people being skeptical, and certainly not

412
00:24:22,000 --> 00:24:26,039
every time somebody claims something it's true, but that's not

413
00:24:27,480 --> 00:24:32,039
a sound argument to debunk the whole idea of you know,

414
00:24:32,079 --> 00:24:34,759
maybe we don't under understand everything about the psyche. You

415
00:24:34,759 --> 00:24:36,960
know that I've done a lot of reading and a

416
00:24:36,960 --> 00:24:40,319
lot of research into that. And you know, I don't

417
00:24:40,319 --> 00:24:46,119
think that the so called establishment really understands or knows

418
00:24:46,240 --> 00:24:48,599
what the psyche. I mean, have perfected a lot of

419
00:24:48,839 --> 00:24:52,880
techniques when it comes to entrainment and psychic driving and

420
00:24:52,920 --> 00:24:55,839
these different you know, mind control techniques, but that doesn't

421
00:24:55,880 --> 00:24:58,839
mean that they really know what they're dealing with. Because

422
00:24:59,119 --> 00:25:02,240
you know, Saint Paul's the who knows the spirit of

423
00:25:02,359 --> 00:25:04,359
who knows the soul of a man, but the spirit

424
00:25:04,400 --> 00:25:07,680
which is in him, right, so even our souls and

425
00:25:07,680 --> 00:25:12,359
our spirits are somewhat mysterious even to us. So I

426
00:25:12,400 --> 00:25:15,759
don't think the establishment has every everything locked down on

427
00:25:16,640 --> 00:25:19,119
what man is or what man's soul is, precisely because

428
00:25:19,119 --> 00:25:23,200
most of these people have completely naturalistic presuppositions, so they

429
00:25:23,200 --> 00:25:25,599
don't think there is a soul. So you know, this

430
00:25:25,640 --> 00:25:28,480
is why everything's treated with chemicals and so forth. But anyway,

431
00:25:29,160 --> 00:25:31,160
you know, he just provides a bunch of arguments for

432
00:25:32,519 --> 00:25:35,880
you know, people in the establishment, even saying there's more

433
00:25:35,920 --> 00:25:38,359
going on here. These people aren't faking. You can look

434
00:25:38,400 --> 00:25:42,799
at experiments through hypnotism. Hypnotism has been study studied for

435
00:25:42,839 --> 00:25:46,279
eighty years, so you know, obviously they've made some kind

436
00:25:46,279 --> 00:25:50,039
of progress there. Freud talks about ritual abuse, and then

437
00:25:50,079 --> 00:25:55,160
you have, you know, the suspicious, obviously suspicious fact of

438
00:25:55,200 --> 00:25:59,279
the False Memory Syndrome Foundation being founded by these CIA

439
00:25:59,359 --> 00:26:01,960
people who are bold and things like child drafting and

440
00:26:02,119 --> 00:26:03,039
child born and stuff.

441
00:26:03,119 --> 00:26:06,960
Speaker 1: That's right, it's a what's his name? What was his name?

442
00:26:07,039 --> 00:26:10,880
It was morn Orn or something he was or was

443
00:26:11,160 --> 00:26:13,160
MK ultra scientist.

444
00:26:17,880 --> 00:26:20,400
Speaker 2: A bunch of stuff on that. But yeah, I.

445
00:26:20,319 --> 00:26:22,400
Speaker 1: Think wasn't also Jolly West involved with them too?

446
00:26:23,119 --> 00:26:23,839
Speaker 2: That sounds right?

447
00:26:24,160 --> 00:26:30,480
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, okay, false Memory Foundation. Now, for a

448
00:26:30,519 --> 00:26:35,079
point of clarification, Dave mcgown's thesis, uh well in Program

449
00:26:35,079 --> 00:26:38,920
to Kill and also Dovetails are it's a good follow

450
00:26:39,000 --> 00:26:42,559
up to him to his or actually preceded it, but

451
00:26:43,319 --> 00:26:47,279
to his Laura Canyon book, because Laura Cannon. He points

452
00:26:47,279 --> 00:26:50,559
out that the this dizzy array of the popular some

453
00:26:50,640 --> 00:26:53,960
of the most popular musical bands of the nineteen sixties

454
00:26:54,000 --> 00:26:57,319
having connections to military and intelligence, with the theory that

455
00:26:57,359 --> 00:27:01,359
the music itself was weaponized the purposes of culture creation

456
00:27:01,519 --> 00:27:03,759
and sort of steering the culture in a certain direction,

457
00:27:03,880 --> 00:27:07,720
undermining the anti war movement. The manipulation of the youth culture.

458
00:27:07,839 --> 00:27:10,319
The creation of the youth culture was preceded by a

459
00:27:10,359 --> 00:27:14,279
decade I think in the early fifties. In Program to Kill,

460
00:27:14,359 --> 00:27:17,559
he says, he provides, He puts forth, That puts forth

461
00:27:17,599 --> 00:27:21,240
the theory that the arrival of the serial killer phenomena

462
00:27:21,279 --> 00:27:25,440
on the American landscape wasn't an organic development or an

463
00:27:25,440 --> 00:27:30,599
accidental development coming out of America's post war you know,

464
00:27:31,359 --> 00:27:36,920
the environment of prosperity, youth culture, a sexual revolution. This

465
00:27:37,119 --> 00:27:41,279
was a plan. This was a weaponized sort of a

466
00:27:41,319 --> 00:27:45,359
domestic application of the Phoenix program, right, and also an

467
00:27:45,400 --> 00:27:49,119
attempt at maybe an update or a modification of murder

468
00:27:49,160 --> 00:27:53,160
Incorporated to carry out certain amount of hits and you know,

469
00:27:54,200 --> 00:27:56,160
and also an attempt to shape the culture, to create

470
00:27:56,160 --> 00:28:00,680
a culture of fear, to sort of expand or then

471
00:28:00,839 --> 00:28:07,319
vergeoning police state, swat teams, FBI, Quantico, uh, Quantico lab

472
00:28:07,359 --> 00:28:10,000
and all this stuff, and the justification of budgets. So

473
00:28:10,680 --> 00:28:13,640
that's that's just that's the thesis of the book. Is that?

474
00:28:13,880 --> 00:28:14,079
Speaker 2: Is that?

475
00:28:14,400 --> 00:28:15,880
Speaker 1: How you you see his argument?

476
00:28:16,759 --> 00:28:21,119
Speaker 2: Oh? Yeah, absolutely, and yeah. The majority of the book

477
00:28:21,200 --> 00:28:25,839
is made up of the the serial killing crimes and

478
00:28:25,960 --> 00:28:28,759
ritual crimes and then you do have, like you said,

479
00:28:28,759 --> 00:28:30,799
those are those kind of early chapters that dealt with

480
00:28:30,839 --> 00:28:35,400
more of the sex crimes and pedophiles. But you know,

481
00:28:35,480 --> 00:28:37,319
one of the themes that he mentions is that a

482
00:28:37,319 --> 00:28:42,680
lot of these these people seem to have been known

483
00:28:42,720 --> 00:28:46,880
by the establishment, a lot of these devians. And so

484
00:28:47,519 --> 00:28:50,799
the idea here is that because a lot of these

485
00:28:51,359 --> 00:28:53,799
people who were troubled, maybe they were brought up in

486
00:28:54,839 --> 00:28:58,119
very severely dysfunctional homes and then maybe they were molested,

487
00:28:58,920 --> 00:29:02,400
and then having been through the system, they would have

488
00:29:02,440 --> 00:29:08,359
been fingered and earmarked as potential candidates for these kinds

489
00:29:08,359 --> 00:29:12,480
of things. Now that's very scary and that's very daunting.

490
00:29:13,359 --> 00:29:16,440
But when we think about all the other material that's

491
00:29:16,480 --> 00:29:19,839
out there, For example, the way that doctor e and

492
00:29:19,880 --> 00:29:25,599
Cameron was stationed at Mount Royal Psychiatric Institute in Canada,

493
00:29:26,880 --> 00:29:30,000
that's precisely what he was doing. He was finding troubled

494
00:29:30,039 --> 00:29:32,480
people in the psych wards to run his tests on.

495
00:29:33,400 --> 00:29:37,400
When we think about other aspects of the m culture

496
00:29:37,440 --> 00:29:42,799
program that will run through various universities and Human Ecology Foundation,

497
00:29:43,319 --> 00:29:46,960
or through these fronts, these psychiatric fronts, they were also

498
00:29:47,119 --> 00:29:51,440
working in prisons, like in Louisville, Kentucky, excuse me, Lexing

499
00:29:51,480 --> 00:29:54,279
in Kentucky. I think it was one of the sites

500
00:29:54,319 --> 00:29:57,920
where they were picking out prisoners according to John Marx's book.

501
00:29:58,559 --> 00:30:01,480
So that dovetails well with Dave's thesis, which is just

502
00:30:01,519 --> 00:30:04,240
that you have if you've grown up in the system,

503
00:30:04,480 --> 00:30:06,680
you know, with somebody like Charles Manson, He's a great

504
00:30:06,720 --> 00:30:10,960
example who's you know, he was in juvenile problems from

505
00:30:11,200 --> 00:30:14,200
like day one, right, so he would have been known

506
00:30:14,359 --> 00:30:16,359
to the system. Is what is what we're trying to

507
00:30:16,400 --> 00:30:19,440
say here, and that a lot of these guys seem

508
00:30:19,519 --> 00:30:23,559
to have a curious pattern of where they end up.

509
00:30:24,480 --> 00:30:27,920
And the serial killers tend to be excuse me, you

510
00:30:27,960 --> 00:30:32,039
tend to have these time periods where they spent a

511
00:30:32,039 --> 00:30:40,319
good bit of time in California, Texas, in Florida, excuse me.

512
00:30:40,359 --> 00:30:44,359
And so Dave kind of theorizes that what you have

513
00:30:44,559 --> 00:30:47,160
is in these states is number one, they're they're kind

514
00:30:47,200 --> 00:30:52,480
of obviously to military industrial complex type states, especially with

515
00:30:52,599 --> 00:30:56,079
a lot of the the bases in California. And then

516
00:30:56,119 --> 00:30:58,880
you have a lot of drug running that would be

517
00:30:58,920 --> 00:31:05,720
related to the Texas Mexico border, and then obviously drug

518
00:31:05,799 --> 00:31:12,680
running too from waterways, you know, into Florida, So so

519
00:31:12,759 --> 00:31:16,839
that that requires a lot of deep state apparatus, in

520
00:31:16,880 --> 00:31:22,599
other words, to to keep the drug situation flowing. And

521
00:31:22,640 --> 00:31:26,000
when you have one black market like drugs, you oftentimes

522
00:31:26,039 --> 00:31:30,440
have the other ones too, like human trafficking. So drugs

523
00:31:30,440 --> 00:31:37,319
in human trafficking requires sometimes threats and hitmen, and the

524
00:31:37,319 --> 00:31:42,200
the serial killer phenomenon then can have many uses, right,

525
00:31:42,279 --> 00:31:45,759
So you mentioned those in your description, but of course

526
00:31:45,839 --> 00:31:50,400
Dave also mentions the possibilities of unsolved murders. These can

527
00:31:50,440 --> 00:31:53,640
be haystacked, I think, is the term that you've used

528
00:31:53,680 --> 00:31:59,640
where police departments excuse me, the haystacking is where you

529
00:31:59,640 --> 00:32:02,880
you you have a target, but you sort of blend

530
00:32:02,920 --> 00:32:05,119
them in amongst a whole bunch of people that you've

531
00:32:05,599 --> 00:32:09,640
that you've killed, so what appears random. So that's another

532
00:32:09,680 --> 00:32:12,599
one of the thecs here. And then you also have

533
00:32:12,680 --> 00:32:15,359
the notion, like you said, of hay stacks of uh,

534
00:32:15,640 --> 00:32:18,640
you know, police departments kind of stacking these onto one

535
00:32:18,640 --> 00:32:20,960
guy and really Luke has killed you know, two hundred

536
00:32:20,960 --> 00:32:26,000
people or whatever, which seems seems a little bit uh implausible.

537
00:32:26,480 --> 00:32:28,559
Speaker 1: Yeah, they took him on a tour. I did that

538
00:32:28,599 --> 00:32:30,319
one yeah, I did that one. Yeah, yeah, that was

539
00:32:30,359 --> 00:32:30,759
me too.

540
00:32:32,799 --> 00:32:35,160
Speaker 2: But I think it's fascinating too that you know, he

541
00:32:35,319 --> 00:32:39,920
tends to mention with these characters that they they could

542
00:32:39,920 --> 00:32:43,519
have been picked out because they had disassociative identity disorder.

543
00:32:44,160 --> 00:32:44,400
Speaker 1: Uh.

544
00:32:44,440 --> 00:32:46,359
Speaker 2: And that may not necessarily mean that they were like

545
00:32:47,279 --> 00:32:51,599
programmed in the sense of you like sent on the

546
00:32:51,599 --> 00:32:53,680
mission to do this. Now, they may have been in

547
00:32:53,759 --> 00:32:56,240
some cases, but rather than that, they would have been

548
00:32:57,359 --> 00:32:59,720
chosen as people who already had mental problems, is when

549
00:32:59,720 --> 00:33:05,000
I'm try. And that would be the cover, right, They

550
00:33:05,000 --> 00:33:07,880
would never be suspected for being used by the establishment

551
00:33:07,960 --> 00:33:11,799
or some nefarious group precisely because they're crazy.

552
00:33:12,599 --> 00:33:15,440
Speaker 1: Yeah. And the reason, I mean the suspicion that that

553
00:33:15,440 --> 00:33:21,319
that sort of uh identification process was in place well

554
00:33:21,799 --> 00:33:26,319
with m k Ultra, the psycho psychiatic profession was completely

555
00:33:26,920 --> 00:33:30,480
taken over by the military and intelligence for the purposes

556
00:33:30,519 --> 00:33:35,000
of doing just that. So I mean, for example, you

557
00:33:35,039 --> 00:33:38,559
mentioned obviously you and Cameron up and up in Canada, uh,

558
00:33:39,000 --> 00:33:40,960
and he was funded by the Human Ecology Fund, the

559
00:33:40,960 --> 00:33:45,079
c I A. I mean this was George Esterbrooks World

560
00:33:45,119 --> 00:33:45,559
War two.

561
00:33:46,519 --> 00:33:46,599
Speaker 2: Uh.

562
00:33:46,720 --> 00:33:49,200
Speaker 1: You've over in the UK at the Tavistak Institute, which

563
00:33:49,240 --> 00:33:52,559
identified you know, shell shock and trauma and how it

564
00:33:52,559 --> 00:33:57,920
could be weaponized and manipulated PTSD and the various Uh.

565
00:33:58,440 --> 00:34:02,160
I think I think every prominent psychiatic hospital institution was

566
00:34:02,440 --> 00:34:05,000
somewhere or another one involved with mkultra back in the sixties,

567
00:34:05,000 --> 00:34:07,960
fifties and sixties. Uh, same with the Actually you mentioned

568
00:34:07,960 --> 00:34:13,079
the prisons Vacaville. There was a Angola prison in Louisiana,

569
00:34:13,119 --> 00:34:18,239
and yeah, you mentioned the one in Kentucky. So that's

570
00:34:18,239 --> 00:34:22,519
been established. So that's I mean, all the some of

571
00:34:22,559 --> 00:34:27,760
the big heavy hitters in psychiatry and psychology were part

572
00:34:27,760 --> 00:34:31,159
of mk ultra, and so that reporting mechanism would be

573
00:34:31,199 --> 00:34:32,360
there just for that.

574
00:34:33,039 --> 00:34:37,920
Speaker 2: Yeah, so exactly right, And even even the public information

575
00:34:38,199 --> 00:34:46,480
is over forty universities in institutions like that were involved,

576
00:34:46,840 --> 00:34:49,679
so you know, and that would include I'm assuming universities

577
00:34:49,679 --> 00:34:51,440
that we probably would like. Yeah, it would be some

578
00:34:51,480 --> 00:34:54,280
of the obvious ones like Stanford and Harvard. You know.

579
00:34:54,360 --> 00:34:57,519
The ted Kyzenski was part of the m k Ultra

580
00:34:57,639 --> 00:34:58,559
project in.

581
00:34:59,119 --> 00:35:03,599
Speaker 1: Right, and I think his victims were connected to SRI I. Yeah, okay,

582
00:35:04,119 --> 00:35:06,639
if if the official narrative is has any truth to

583
00:35:06,679 --> 00:35:11,320
it right, which is which is interesting. I mean, so

584
00:35:12,039 --> 00:35:15,039
he's he was an m k M culture test subject

585
00:35:15,159 --> 00:35:16,719
or victim.

586
00:35:17,480 --> 00:35:20,000
Speaker 2: By the way, just a little aside. Here have you

587
00:35:20,039 --> 00:35:21,519
seen Spellbound.

588
00:35:22,239 --> 00:35:24,239
Speaker 1: With with with Gregory Peck?

589
00:35:24,639 --> 00:35:25,360
Speaker 2: Right? Yeah?

590
00:35:25,440 --> 00:35:27,719
Speaker 1: And yeah, yeah, yeah, I saw years ago with Ingenbergman,

591
00:35:27,800 --> 00:35:29,800
here's all the freudianism I thought was hilarious in it.

592
00:35:29,880 --> 00:35:33,280
Speaker 2: Well, it is Roudianism. But what's interesting is that if

593
00:35:33,320 --> 00:35:38,559
you go back and watch it, Gregory Peck is being

594
00:35:40,880 --> 00:35:46,079
used as the he what the there's a doctor at

595
00:35:46,079 --> 00:35:50,000
the institute who's framing Gregory Peck for murder.

596
00:35:50,639 --> 00:35:51,079
Speaker 1: That's right.

597
00:35:51,559 --> 00:35:55,119
Speaker 2: He's doing that because Gregory Peck has this associative identity

598
00:35:55,159 --> 00:35:58,480
disorder and he can't remember what he's done. And so

599
00:35:58,559 --> 00:36:01,079
I was like, this is in the forties, and I

600
00:36:01,159 --> 00:36:02,519
was watching this the other day. I was like, man,

601
00:36:02,519 --> 00:36:05,159
this is kind of like an analogy for a lot

602
00:36:05,199 --> 00:36:08,360
of Damn Calter type stuff. This fits well with dem

603
00:36:08,400 --> 00:36:11,119
mc gallon's book because this guy believes that he's committed

604
00:36:11,119 --> 00:36:13,280
the murder and it was actually the head of the

605
00:36:13,559 --> 00:36:15,000
psychiatric institute.

606
00:36:15,320 --> 00:36:17,199
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's the one with all the savage or Dolly

607
00:36:17,280 --> 00:36:17,880
Art in it.

608
00:36:18,199 --> 00:36:23,639
Speaker 2: Correct. Yes, it has a surrealist all seeing eye the.

609
00:36:23,760 --> 00:36:27,760
Speaker 1: Artwork, and I think it was George Esterbrooks. He was

610
00:36:27,760 --> 00:36:29,840
the world during World War Two. Was talking about my

611
00:36:30,000 --> 00:36:37,119
control and hypnosis and trauma to create used a disassociated disorder,

612
00:36:37,239 --> 00:36:38,719
multiple snalities to correct.

613
00:36:38,760 --> 00:36:41,960
Speaker 2: Yeah, the essay Hypnosis Comes of Age, which is the

614
00:36:41,960 --> 00:36:44,840
most famous one that you can read. This was a

615
00:36:44,920 --> 00:36:48,199
it's online and it's the nineteen seventy one or two

616
00:36:48,480 --> 00:36:51,159
Science Digest essay that he wrote, and that's where he

617
00:36:51,239 --> 00:36:53,920
kind of lays out his bragging about all I can do.

618
00:36:54,239 --> 00:36:57,159
I mean, I think the essay is older than nineteen

619
00:36:57,199 --> 00:37:01,280
seventy one, but it's that's where you'll find it online,

620
00:37:01,760 --> 00:37:04,239
is in that that format. But yeah, that's where he

621
00:37:04,280 --> 00:37:07,199
describes the process of hypnosis and the courier and the

622
00:37:07,280 --> 00:37:08,679
keywords and the triggers.

623
00:37:08,360 --> 00:37:12,920
Speaker 1: And all that. And did you catch my interview with

624
00:37:13,000 --> 00:37:18,599
doctor Joseph Ferrell recently on common Core? I did, Yeah,

625
00:37:19,199 --> 00:37:21,360
And the he he's made it well and that interview

626
00:37:21,360 --> 00:37:23,559
knows on several and in the book of course, he

627
00:37:23,840 --> 00:37:29,760
connected uh, the Electronic Testing Service to the Human Ecology Fund.

628
00:37:30,440 --> 00:37:30,920
Speaker 2: I did hear that?

629
00:37:31,400 --> 00:37:34,360
Speaker 1: And when you're talking about you're you're talking how these

630
00:37:34,400 --> 00:37:38,519
guys could be identified, profiled as you know, through the

631
00:37:38,599 --> 00:37:40,440
various because they're identified as being psychological.

632
00:37:40,440 --> 00:37:43,239
Speaker 2: We have the standardized testing exactly standardized testing.

633
00:37:43,360 --> 00:37:47,800
Speaker 1: Yeah, and so now, and of course that was all

634
00:37:47,960 --> 00:37:50,440
done at the behest. I mean they contacted I think

635
00:37:50,480 --> 00:37:52,920
it was conit. I think a Harvard who ran it

636
00:37:53,000 --> 00:37:55,000
or something. Man, I forget the name right, remember, but

637
00:37:55,039 --> 00:37:57,920
basically it was It's done to not just identify, you know,

638
00:37:57,960 --> 00:38:00,119
the best and the brightest, or to sort of to

639
00:38:01,400 --> 00:38:04,039
channel people into the professions they think people should do

640
00:38:04,079 --> 00:38:08,559
based on their testing parameters or standards whatever. But you

641
00:38:08,599 --> 00:38:12,000
could you talk about today, I mean talk about the military.

642
00:38:12,039 --> 00:38:14,679
Does the video games write this interactive video games that

643
00:38:14,800 --> 00:38:19,760
go to the Pentagon first shooter games, these things.

644
00:38:19,519 --> 00:38:23,119
Speaker 2: Being monitored and kill everybody at the wedding.

645
00:38:23,719 --> 00:38:29,280
Speaker 1: Yeah, so these people can be identified like that. So

646
00:38:29,880 --> 00:38:32,400
I was imagining the technologies former advanced now just with

647
00:38:33,920 --> 00:38:37,280
obviously with the internet, with our smart devices everywhere and

648
00:38:37,559 --> 00:38:39,559
everything being monitored, what we read, what we buy or

649
00:38:39,599 --> 00:38:44,559
habits being monitored digitally, and that could you know, that

650
00:38:44,599 --> 00:38:48,719
could flags you know, certain you could get flagged and okay,

651
00:38:48,719 --> 00:38:50,880
here we get we got somebody, you know.

652
00:38:52,480 --> 00:38:53,480
Speaker 2: Yeah, So let's go.

653
00:38:53,599 --> 00:38:56,519
Speaker 1: You know, so again it's one of the people hear

654
00:38:56,559 --> 00:38:58,639
the stuff says No, I mean that the the literature

655
00:38:58,679 --> 00:39:01,559
of the history is there, and it's been acknowledged that

656
00:39:01,599 --> 00:39:07,199
these that this was done. And again the all the universities,

657
00:39:07,239 --> 00:39:11,840
all the psychiatic hospitals, these prisons, these institutions, uh they're

658
00:39:11,880 --> 00:39:15,239
supposed to help us protect society were weaponized, you know,

659
00:39:16,639 --> 00:39:20,000
to do something quite opposite of what their with their

660
00:39:20,000 --> 00:39:22,440
public charter claims they're there to do.

661
00:39:22,920 --> 00:39:25,000
Speaker 2: And if anybody doubts that, all you have to do

662
00:39:25,079 --> 00:39:27,920
is read the works of Bertrand Russell to understand the

663
00:39:27,960 --> 00:39:33,199
scientific outlook m hm. Because it's ruthless, it's not moral.

664
00:39:34,280 --> 00:39:37,199
They don't have any qualms of using people in that way.

665
00:39:37,760 --> 00:39:40,199
Speaker 1: Mm hmm. And of course in the book he he

666
00:39:40,400 --> 00:39:42,679
just goes to a list of of of these serial killers.

667
00:39:42,679 --> 00:39:46,400
They all I'm not all of them, but almost military

668
00:39:46,400 --> 00:39:50,199
intelligence backgrounds UHM experience.

669
00:39:50,920 --> 00:39:54,840
Speaker 2: Right, Yeah, that's where we would get the potential Phoenix connection.

670
00:39:55,000 --> 00:39:57,800
But I thought it was interesting that, uh I didn't

671
00:39:57,800 --> 00:40:01,719
actually know a whole lot about Henry Ucas, but you know,

672
00:40:01,719 --> 00:40:04,760
he points had a lot of suspicious things like being

673
00:40:05,239 --> 00:40:09,519
pardoned by w Yeah, he's a good man. Henry Lucas

674
00:40:09,519 --> 00:40:13,239
a good boy. He's a good boy, right. But so

675
00:40:13,360 --> 00:40:15,320
he claims that he was in a satanant colt though

676
00:40:15,360 --> 00:40:16,679
you know, so I don't know if it's true, but

677
00:40:16,800 --> 00:40:19,519
that's what Innery Lucas claimed that the hand of Death

678
00:40:19,679 --> 00:40:24,000
Cult you used him and that he was a contract killer,

679
00:40:24,639 --> 00:40:29,119
and that this was associated with human trafficking from Puarez

680
00:40:29,280 --> 00:40:34,840
into presumably Olpasso or Brownswell or somewhere. And this of

681
00:40:34,840 --> 00:40:38,679
course connects to the Death Cult MS thirteen, which is

682
00:40:38,719 --> 00:40:43,320
the Latin American gang that's you know, connected to all

683
00:40:43,320 --> 00:40:46,639
this kind of stuff. And I believe has to have

684
00:40:46,719 --> 00:40:49,559
some kind of help from above. I don't mean God,

685
00:40:49,920 --> 00:40:56,199
he's from above from the government, especially with you, because

686
00:40:56,199 --> 00:41:00,239
I watched them documentaries on Sante, which is the cult

687
00:41:00,320 --> 00:41:03,000
which a lot of the MS thirteen are into, and

688
00:41:03,039 --> 00:41:05,280
you look at the guys who runs cult, and there's

689
00:41:05,440 --> 00:41:09,599
totally shady, obviously involved in some kind of some kind

690
00:41:09,599 --> 00:41:12,800
of thing. And that's that jives well with a lot

691
00:41:12,800 --> 00:41:15,320
of what Dave claims in the Henry Lucas chapter. And

692
00:41:16,159 --> 00:41:18,960
you know, this is where we he's a good example

693
00:41:19,079 --> 00:41:23,440
of kind of the archetype of what his thesis is

694
00:41:23,480 --> 00:41:27,480
because Henry was office of a naval intelligence or had

695
00:41:27,480 --> 00:41:30,719
some connection there, or he was spotted there, and maybe

696
00:41:30,760 --> 00:41:35,480
he there's some connection to NATO. I'm looking back at

697
00:41:35,480 --> 00:41:38,679
the at the book here, careful screening of subjects was

698
00:41:38,719 --> 00:41:41,440
accomplished by the Navy psychologists and the military records. Many

699
00:41:41,480 --> 00:41:44,880
were convicted murderers serving prison sentences and they were put

700
00:41:44,960 --> 00:41:47,840
into this program. Yet here we go. So he's arguing

701
00:41:47,920 --> 00:41:52,480
that in chapter eight that Henry Lucas was probably one

702
00:41:52,519 --> 00:41:55,760
of these these people in this kind of a program.

703
00:41:55,840 --> 00:41:58,639
And the military is ruthless. You have to understand that too,

704
00:41:58,719 --> 00:42:03,519
Like they're just as ruthless as the scientism of Bertrand Russell.

705
00:42:03,559 --> 00:42:05,559
Like they don't have any qualms of I mean, they're

706
00:42:05,599 --> 00:42:06,840
in the business of killing people.

707
00:42:07,639 --> 00:42:09,639
Speaker 1: They weaponized everything.

708
00:42:09,599 --> 00:42:12,599
Speaker 2: Right, So you know, to a lot of people, this

709
00:42:12,639 --> 00:42:15,760
is just sounds so you know, well, we're American, we

710
00:42:15,760 --> 00:42:20,440
wouldn't do that. You know, we have the Wounded Warrior Project.

711
00:42:20,480 --> 00:42:23,599
We go back and grab our wounded men, we carry

712
00:42:23,599 --> 00:42:26,840
them back, right, But no, that's not really I mean,

713
00:42:27,519 --> 00:42:29,719
obviously a lot of people in the military are good

714
00:42:29,800 --> 00:42:33,199
natured and would do that. But that doesn't mean that

715
00:42:33,199 --> 00:42:35,880
that's the modus opera. And I have the total totality

716
00:42:35,880 --> 00:42:38,480
of the military. I mean, there's you know, it's compartmentalized.

717
00:42:38,480 --> 00:42:41,800
There's all kinds of secret projects and stuff like this,

718
00:42:42,039 --> 00:42:44,599
and so you know, Dave just kind of lists a

719
00:42:44,599 --> 00:42:47,639
whole bunch of these characters that seem to pop up

720
00:42:47,639 --> 00:42:50,119
around the same time. And you have Berkowitz, and you

721
00:42:50,159 --> 00:42:56,159
have I think he mentioned Jim Jones or in some capacity.

722
00:42:56,159 --> 00:43:00,800
I don't know that Jim Jones was necessarily atary connection,

723
00:43:00,840 --> 00:43:04,800
although we know that he had the connection to Dan Miturion,

724
00:43:05,119 --> 00:43:07,639
who was the CIA guy down in.

725
00:43:10,599 --> 00:43:10,760
Speaker 1: Guy.

726
00:43:12,039 --> 00:43:16,280
Speaker 2: Yeah, hello, can you hear me? You're you're getting really

727
00:43:16,639 --> 00:43:21,440
you're cutting up really bad? Have I Now, No, it's

728
00:43:21,480 --> 00:43:22,440
just super staticky.

729
00:43:22,559 --> 00:43:23,880
Speaker 1: Okay, let me give you and they give you a

730
00:43:23,880 --> 00:43:26,000
call back. Okay, yeah, clear it up.

731
00:43:26,199 --> 00:43:30,880
Speaker 2: Than uh so, Yeah, I think this is a chapter

732
00:43:30,920 --> 00:43:32,360
eight is one of the one of the more important

733
00:43:32,400 --> 00:43:36,119
chapters in the book because this is where he's talking

734
00:43:36,119 --> 00:43:39,559
about they're called CTS criminal. I don't know what that

735
00:43:39,599 --> 00:43:43,480
stands for, but these are the people who are in

736
00:43:43,519 --> 00:43:45,719
the Phoenix program and they're they're the ones that are

737
00:43:45,800 --> 00:43:49,440
trained to they're kind of profile to be the psychos,

738
00:43:49,519 --> 00:43:53,000
and then they're kind of let loose obviously the awe

739
00:43:53,000 --> 00:43:55,920
into the offices of psychological terror against the Viet Cong.

740
00:43:56,960 --> 00:43:59,000
And then these people come back, and you know, they're

741
00:43:59,039 --> 00:44:02,719
already known to military, so they could be put to

742
00:44:02,760 --> 00:44:06,440
all kinds of use, right, And that's that's a very

743
00:44:08,480 --> 00:44:10,239
enticing theory, I think.

744
00:44:10,320 --> 00:44:11,760
Speaker 1: Because what do you do with these men once they

745
00:44:11,800 --> 00:44:12,079
come back?

746
00:44:12,239 --> 00:44:16,159
Speaker 2: What do you do with these guys? Right? And so anyway,

747
00:44:16,199 --> 00:44:20,239
that's that's I'm flipping through the chapter. So that that

748
00:44:20,360 --> 00:44:23,079
was a really important chapter. And I didn't know anything

749
00:44:23,079 --> 00:44:25,159
about the Mathea mortros culled. That was totally new to

750
00:44:25,199 --> 00:44:27,440
had heard of it, but that was new to me.

751
00:44:27,559 --> 00:44:29,599
And then so you just realized that there's so many

752
00:44:29,599 --> 00:44:32,360
examples of this stuff that it's kind of just been

753
00:44:32,400 --> 00:44:36,519
forgotten in the you know, in the news. Like I

754
00:44:36,760 --> 00:44:39,960
remember this back in the eighties or nineties or whatever

755
00:44:40,000 --> 00:44:44,119
it was, but in the eighties, but you know, we

756
00:44:44,119 --> 00:44:46,639
were told that there was that was all a Satanic

757
00:44:46,719 --> 00:44:51,239
panic created a by Roaldo. There was no real Satanism,

758
00:44:51,280 --> 00:44:52,920
there was none of this. It was just a panic.

759
00:44:53,719 --> 00:45:00,639
Yet throughout the eighties and nineties, the Juarez was the

760
00:45:00,679 --> 00:45:05,679
world capital for missing women. And I actually went and

761
00:45:05,800 --> 00:45:08,599
looked up a lot of Dave's claims and articles on this,

762
00:45:09,239 --> 00:45:13,440
not only because I had traveled last summer too California

763
00:45:13,480 --> 00:45:16,159
and stopped in El Paso on the way and I

764
00:45:16,159 --> 00:45:19,480
saw Juarez and it made me think of the movie Cicicario,

765
00:45:19,599 --> 00:45:23,039
and I was thinking, good grief looks so awful over

766
00:45:23,079 --> 00:45:28,480
at Juarez. And in Cecario, the story is that the

767
00:45:28,599 --> 00:45:34,559
FBI girl is tricked into working with this military out

768
00:45:34,559 --> 00:45:37,239
of Shae. She's out of Shae for a military outfit

769
00:45:37,280 --> 00:45:40,000
that's run by the CIA, and she thinks that she's

770
00:45:40,079 --> 00:45:45,760
going to take out a drug dealer assassin, and really

771
00:45:45,800 --> 00:45:48,880
all that what what was happening was that the CIA

772
00:45:49,000 --> 00:45:51,840
was taking out a rival drug dealer yea, And so

773
00:45:52,079 --> 00:45:55,599
they do the FBI girl anyway, so that all takes

774
00:45:55,639 --> 00:45:59,559
place in Juarez in the in the movie. Yeah, I'm

775
00:45:59,559 --> 00:46:02,119
sitting here eating this chapter in Dave's book, and I'm like,

776
00:46:02,159 --> 00:46:06,559
this is straight out. This sounds just like Secario. And

777
00:46:06,840 --> 00:46:08,400
you know it's not hard to believe. I mean if

778
00:46:08,440 --> 00:46:10,679
you go and you you know, you look at the

779
00:46:10,679 --> 00:46:12,960
border wall there in El Paso when you look over

780
00:46:13,000 --> 00:46:15,519
into the water as it just for a second, it

781
00:46:15,519 --> 00:46:16,360
looks like a hell hole.

782
00:46:16,559 --> 00:46:18,360
Speaker 1: Well, they got to keep it a hell hole because

783
00:46:18,360 --> 00:46:19,679
it's also a good source of.

784
00:46:19,719 --> 00:46:22,360
Speaker 2: Cheap labor for the Well, that's what Davison points out too,

785
00:46:22,480 --> 00:46:24,440
is that this is a big part of NAPTO was

786
00:46:25,199 --> 00:46:31,320
being able to move all the sweatshops there. But you know,

787
00:46:31,159 --> 00:46:34,159
he argues that there's a lot more going on that

788
00:46:34,199 --> 00:46:37,360
it's not just sweatshops that you know, the women are

789
00:46:37,400 --> 00:46:39,039
going missing for a reason. Yeah.

790
00:46:39,039 --> 00:46:41,639
Speaker 1: Well, yeah, that Rancho Diablo, which is an interesting name.

791
00:46:41,519 --> 00:46:44,159
Speaker 2: For yes, that comes up in here too. Yeah, that's

792
00:46:44,239 --> 00:46:46,599
is that the one that's connected to the mapa Moros.

793
00:46:47,000 --> 00:46:50,719
Speaker 1: And there was rated by the Texas Rangers eventually, yes, exactly,

794
00:46:51,480 --> 00:46:53,519
and they found bones all over the place, and again

795
00:46:53,719 --> 00:46:57,760
for years, people ignored it for years. That's just a rumor,

796
00:46:57,800 --> 00:47:00,840
it's a it's a myth. And I think that's the

797
00:47:00,840 --> 00:47:06,039
one that Henry Lucas talked about, isn't it. And Henry

798
00:47:06,119 --> 00:47:08,480
Lucas is an interesting story because you know, he's supposed

799
00:47:08,519 --> 00:47:10,280
to be the serial killer because he teamed up with

800
00:47:10,360 --> 00:47:14,280
two three different people at a time. One of his partners,

801
00:47:14,599 --> 00:47:19,960
tool otis Toole, who has been linked to the death

802
00:47:20,000 --> 00:47:24,000
of Adam Walsh. And everyone knows, you know, the uh

803
00:47:24,760 --> 00:47:28,159
uh most want what's that show on Fox? Uh? Not

804
00:47:28,280 --> 00:47:31,519
most wanted? What was it? Walsh? He'd had that show on.

805
00:47:31,559 --> 00:47:34,079
Speaker 2: Fox News America's most wanted.

806
00:47:35,199 --> 00:47:37,800
Speaker 1: Of course, that was in nineteen eighty one. His son

807
00:47:37,920 --> 00:47:40,159
missing a sears in a Roebuck in nineteen eighty one

808
00:47:40,920 --> 00:47:43,599
and the boy's head was on floating in the canal

809
00:47:44,559 --> 00:47:48,400
otis tool was taken in for questioning for that crime,

810
00:47:48,440 --> 00:47:53,079
and the police at the time lost the machete and

811
00:47:53,119 --> 00:47:55,920
even the I believe in the automobile that he had used,

812
00:47:56,440 --> 00:48:00,360
and they let him go and he and he was

813
00:48:00,400 --> 00:48:03,519
in prison again later on, and he supposedly confessed to

814
00:48:03,559 --> 00:48:08,840
that crime. And if you know, you're probably too young

815
00:48:08,880 --> 00:48:11,000
to remember, but I remember that very well because that

816
00:48:11,079 --> 00:48:14,320
was one of these national stories. We started getting national

817
00:48:14,360 --> 00:48:16,400
stories in the eighties about missing kids. We didn't get

818
00:48:16,440 --> 00:48:20,800
those in the seventies as regional. And it he was

819
00:48:20,880 --> 00:48:23,679
one on Phil Donahue Show and all this, and you know,

820
00:48:23,920 --> 00:48:27,320
it became a crusade about missing exploited children. And of

821
00:48:27,320 --> 00:48:29,679
course the fact that the head was separated, you know,

822
00:48:30,119 --> 00:48:33,840
suggests some sort of maybe satanic thing. But this gets

823
00:48:33,880 --> 00:48:38,239
into the sort of the alchemical I guess, element of

824
00:48:38,280 --> 00:48:40,519
the Serira Chillar phenomena that Michael Hoppin gets into. But

825
00:48:40,599 --> 00:48:44,400
even Dave McGowan talks about it creating fear, creating an

826
00:48:44,440 --> 00:48:47,039
adami society where kids can wander, go out in place,

827
00:48:47,280 --> 00:48:52,599
communities no longer cohere. This just getting it out there

828
00:48:52,639 --> 00:48:55,440
like that would terrify the community. And it was.

829
00:48:55,480 --> 00:48:55,679
Speaker 2: It was.

830
00:48:55,800 --> 00:48:57,880
Speaker 1: It was a trauma for the entire nation the way

831
00:48:57,920 --> 00:49:01,920
the media covered it. And and what's strange is, of

832
00:49:01,960 --> 00:49:06,119
course this Jeb Bush, the governor of Florida, otis tools

833
00:49:06,159 --> 00:49:11,800
arrested the governor of Texas. But again, in all the cases,

834
00:49:11,840 --> 00:49:15,320
whether it's the same thing with John Wayne Gacy, Jeffrey Dahmer,

835
00:49:15,760 --> 00:49:21,719
otis tool is inexplicable, complete police incompetence, the failure to

836
00:49:21,760 --> 00:49:24,280
follow up on things. And that's what he points out,

837
00:49:24,599 --> 00:49:24,800
you know.

838
00:49:26,119 --> 00:49:29,760
Speaker 2: Yeah, and this comes uh to the four especially in

839
00:49:29,800 --> 00:49:36,639
the case of Oh my mind just went blank. I

840
00:49:36,719 --> 00:49:39,440
watched the after I read the book, I watched a

841
00:49:40,320 --> 00:49:41,599
four hour TV movie.

842
00:49:41,800 --> 00:49:45,280
Speaker 1: Oh that was on John Wayne Gacy with Denny Right.

843
00:49:46,320 --> 00:49:51,639
Speaker 2: Yeah, So here he's essentially now that the TV show moved.

844
00:49:51,719 --> 00:49:55,400
The TV movie kind of hints at it, but not really.

845
00:49:56,159 --> 00:49:58,960
They don't go into the fact that he was seems

846
00:49:59,000 --> 00:50:02,719
to have been operating very well with the local police,

847
00:50:03,760 --> 00:50:06,360
you know, as if maybe he was maybe their guy,

848
00:50:06,559 --> 00:50:08,480
you know what I mean, like their guy to take

849
00:50:08,519 --> 00:50:15,000
out people, because if there was a gay prostitution slash

850
00:50:15,320 --> 00:50:19,360
drug ring, then presumably in that kind of a setting,

851
00:50:19,360 --> 00:50:22,880
you're going to be worried about narcs, and so you know,

852
00:50:22,920 --> 00:50:26,960
you might need to have somebody around to take out

853
00:50:27,000 --> 00:50:31,239
the narcs. No, I don't know if that's exactly what

854
00:50:31,320 --> 00:50:34,199
was going on with him, but but I mean that

855
00:50:34,239 --> 00:50:37,440
makes that makes sense in terms of the police and

856
00:50:37,519 --> 00:50:41,119
competence and the fact that he was this very prominent

857
00:50:42,440 --> 00:50:46,719
member of the community and the j CS and you know,

858
00:50:46,960 --> 00:50:49,400
all these civic organizations that he was a part of.

859
00:50:52,119 --> 00:50:54,000
Speaker 1: David Guta makes a point in the book he talks

860
00:50:54,000 --> 00:50:56,239
about the who idea of the serial killer profile. He says,

861
00:50:56,599 --> 00:50:58,800
most Americans are probably familiar with what is considered the

862
00:50:58,800 --> 00:51:02,559
classic serial killer profile. This was the notion for a

863
00:51:02,639 --> 00:51:05,679
first put forth by the venerable FBI, which coined the

864
00:51:05,760 --> 00:51:09,079
term serial killer and pioneered the concept of profiling in

865
00:51:09,119 --> 00:51:12,199
an alleged attempt to understand the phenomenon of the mass murder.

866
00:51:12,559 --> 00:51:15,239
It appears to be the case, though, that the concept

867
00:51:15,280 --> 00:51:18,239
of the serial killer profile was put forth to largely

868
00:51:18,360 --> 00:51:23,039
misinform the public. And if you scrutinize these cases, one

869
00:51:23,079 --> 00:51:25,800
can't help but agree with the mister McCowan on that point,

870
00:51:26,000 --> 00:51:29,159
because none of them like to buy buying torturing, kill killer,

871
00:51:31,719 --> 00:51:34,400
none of us, none of us supposed to kills follow

872
00:51:34,440 --> 00:51:37,079
any profile. And that's one that's the case of hay

873
00:51:37,119 --> 00:51:41,159
Stacking put potentially because one of those first kills was

874
00:51:41,199 --> 00:51:45,840
this military guy who told his son that someone's after him,

875
00:51:46,480 --> 00:51:48,679
and the whole family was wiped out, his wife who

876
00:51:48,719 --> 00:51:51,039
was trained in martial arts. Two dogs I think were killed,

877
00:51:51,639 --> 00:51:53,320
another son and him.

878
00:51:53,360 --> 00:51:56,360
Speaker 2: Right, and Dave makes the argument that it looks a

879
00:51:56,360 --> 00:52:03,760
lot more like a actual operations trained person, Yeah, came

880
00:52:03,800 --> 00:52:07,400
in and did this, as opposed to you know, this

881
00:52:07,679 --> 00:52:11,599
weird creepy guy that's just kind of you know, stalking

882
00:52:11,639 --> 00:52:14,280
around the neighborhood. You know, like like we're what we're

883
00:52:14,280 --> 00:52:14,960
told it is.

884
00:52:16,679 --> 00:52:21,239
Speaker 1: And uh, the you meant in your talk you talked

885
00:52:21,239 --> 00:52:24,719
about the Zodiac killer you know, and how of course,

886
00:52:25,039 --> 00:52:30,719
how again, well, there's a boot that was identified as

887
00:52:30,719 --> 00:52:35,400
being a navy issue or something, right, right, so military,

888
00:52:36,079 --> 00:52:38,880
And I guess that seems that there again, that seems

889
00:52:38,880 --> 00:52:40,920
to be a case with a lot of people doing it,

890
00:52:41,880 --> 00:52:43,679
some of them some of the people.

891
00:52:43,880 --> 00:52:46,280
Speaker 2: Yeah, right, yeah, like burke Wood said, and then burke

892
00:52:46,320 --> 00:52:48,920
Wood says, oh, I was at the working at the

893
00:52:48,960 --> 00:52:51,920
behest of a larger satanic cult.

894
00:52:52,199 --> 00:52:54,480
Speaker 1: The of course, sena same case came on later, that

895
00:52:54,559 --> 00:52:59,719
was the seventies and Maury Terry's book Positive Theory that

896
00:53:00,199 --> 00:53:02,440
it was a cult doing it, and he just Burger

897
00:53:02,519 --> 00:53:05,119
with himself said he was only to the shootings, right,

898
00:53:06,239 --> 00:53:10,960
And Michael Hoffman sort of examines that case and talking

899
00:53:10,960 --> 00:53:15,880
about all the evidence suggesting that it was indeed multiple,

900
00:53:16,360 --> 00:53:18,400
you know, perpetrators.

901
00:53:19,119 --> 00:53:21,440
Speaker 2: Well, one of the points exactly one of the points

902
00:53:21,480 --> 00:53:26,800
of Oliver Stone slash Quentin Tarantino's movie Natural Born Killers

903
00:53:28,400 --> 00:53:34,800
is that the media is really what creates and gives

904
00:53:34,840 --> 00:53:38,119
everybody the impression of the serial killer. So I mean,

905
00:53:38,239 --> 00:53:40,360
I'm not I don't know how cognizant they were of

906
00:53:40,440 --> 00:53:43,719
Dave's book, but I'm saying or Dave's word because I

907
00:53:43,719 --> 00:53:45,400
think that that that movie came out when I was

908
00:53:45,440 --> 00:53:47,360
in high school. But the point of the movie is

909
00:53:47,360 --> 00:53:50,840
that the media makes these people in two stars, that

910
00:53:50,960 --> 00:53:54,719
makes their media creations, is what I'm trying to say.

911
00:53:55,599 --> 00:54:01,480
And so that once again shows the role of mass

912
00:54:01,519 --> 00:54:05,000
media in terms of sciops. Because you know, if Dave's

913
00:54:05,000 --> 00:54:09,480
thesis is right, then that's why we don't see them anymore.

914
00:54:09,519 --> 00:54:12,679
They're not needed anymore. That's where did all the zero

915
00:54:12,800 --> 00:54:14,800
killers got? Where are they?

916
00:54:15,159 --> 00:54:18,000
Speaker 1: Yeah, the work, the work's been done, I guess exactly

917
00:54:20,360 --> 00:54:23,239
the getting into the the why this you look at it?

918
00:54:23,280 --> 00:54:25,840
When the serial killer emerged against the late sixties, I

919
00:54:25,840 --> 00:54:27,920
think the Zodiac Killer was probably we're at you at

920
00:54:27,960 --> 00:54:32,480
the the salvo. The Boston Strangler another case where none

921
00:54:32,519 --> 00:54:36,079
of the doesn't fit any of the profile. In fact,

922
00:54:36,679 --> 00:54:38,159
people think he went to prison for his being the

923
00:54:38,159 --> 00:54:42,480
Boston strangler. He didn't. He was convicted for another crime.

924
00:54:42,519 --> 00:54:44,239
And I think it was weird as f Lee Bailey

925
00:54:44,280 --> 00:54:47,480
was his lawyer who presented the strange defense that he

926
00:54:47,320 --> 00:54:51,039
that he was not innocent, not guilty of the crime

927
00:54:51,159 --> 00:54:53,320
is charged because he was busy strangling somebody. I think

928
00:54:53,320 --> 00:54:54,280
that was his defense.

929
00:54:55,480 --> 00:54:55,760
Speaker 2: Wow.

930
00:54:56,199 --> 00:54:58,679
Speaker 1: But d Salvo himself looks like some sort of mind

931
00:54:58,679 --> 00:55:02,280
control victim. U. Yeah, and there's only there was no age,

932
00:55:03,000 --> 00:55:07,800
women of all ages. There's no profile to it, and

933
00:55:07,840 --> 00:55:09,159
it's just one of these weird cases.

934
00:55:10,880 --> 00:55:13,199
Speaker 2: Oh. By the way, Ted Bundy also is one of

935
00:55:13,519 --> 00:55:18,199
says claims that there were other people involved. Yeah, so

936
00:55:18,280 --> 00:55:20,880
that it was he wasn't just him as the loan gunner.

937
00:55:21,440 --> 00:55:24,239
Speaker 1: Mm hmm. And that's another thing to remember. He's able

938
00:55:24,239 --> 00:55:27,239
to break out of prison and kill multiple girls at

939
00:55:27,239 --> 00:55:31,280
a sorority. And I mean it's like, how does he

940
00:55:32,239 --> 00:55:34,679
breaks out of prison and able to same thing Richard

941
00:55:34,679 --> 00:55:37,840
Speck remember his case, and he broke into the nurses

942
00:55:39,199 --> 00:55:45,440
dorm or something and was able to murder multiple girls

943
00:55:45,519 --> 00:55:47,599
as they waited. I mean they were like locked in

944
00:55:47,599 --> 00:55:49,599
a room and waited. Uh.

945
00:55:50,039 --> 00:55:54,119
Speaker 2: Interesting, but I don't remember the detail. But I remember

946
00:55:54,599 --> 00:55:58,440
you noticed this coming up too. And Richard Ramirez' case.

947
00:55:58,519 --> 00:56:01,760
He he said to have been trained by his relative

948
00:56:01,800 --> 00:56:04,719
who was a military killer of some sort.

949
00:56:04,920 --> 00:56:07,880
Speaker 1: Yeah, in Vietnam. Was in vietnamause I think his cousin,

950
00:56:08,719 --> 00:56:11,480
the old brother or something. Yeah, it was true.

951
00:56:11,519 --> 00:56:16,440
Speaker 2: And then Bobby Joe Long is the cousin of Lucas.

952
00:56:17,079 --> 00:56:23,559
Speaker 1: That's all the family. But look at the context when

953
00:56:23,599 --> 00:56:26,440
this is happening, is we're talking about the nineteen sixties,

954
00:56:26,480 --> 00:56:30,360
the Vietnam War, and what the Vietnam War represented a

955
00:56:30,360 --> 00:56:34,039
lot of motivations for that war. Wasn't the domino theory,

956
00:56:34,719 --> 00:56:39,079
you know. Obviously, one was big war contracts milled, a

957
00:56:39,079 --> 00:56:42,440
lot of spending Kellig Brown and Rute, a lot of

958
00:56:42,480 --> 00:56:45,039
harbors to be dragged, a lot of helicopters get shot

959
00:56:45,079 --> 00:56:50,000
down and maintained and replaced in these things. Another motivation

960
00:56:50,039 --> 00:56:53,840
for the war chrismas heroin. We've talked about that. But

961
00:56:53,960 --> 00:56:56,320
another one I think Chris, when I talked to Chris Milligan,

962
00:56:56,400 --> 00:56:58,079
he comes up with the theory that the war itself

963
00:56:58,199 --> 00:57:02,360
was intended as a trauma for society. It's society to

964
00:57:02,519 --> 00:57:07,599
kind of create a divide between generations. Yes, this gets discoes,

965
00:57:07,880 --> 00:57:12,199
you know, they broader theory behind the counterculture. And order

966
00:57:12,239 --> 00:57:14,639
to get the counterculture, you needed a war to protest.

967
00:57:14,760 --> 00:57:21,199
And so the overall trauma of that war. Of course,

968
00:57:21,280 --> 00:57:23,800
within that war and the war itself provided a great

969
00:57:24,840 --> 00:57:29,079
opportunity not only to experience to test various weapons, weapons systems,

970
00:57:29,119 --> 00:57:32,079
weapon platforms, the most of psychological warfare. Of course, Doug

971
00:57:32,119 --> 00:57:36,039
Doug Valentine's work on the Phoenix program is invaluable in

972
00:57:36,159 --> 00:57:39,199
understanding the Phoenix program. What his intent was was to

973
00:57:40,199 --> 00:57:45,320
counterinsertainty program to destroy what referred to as the civilians

974
00:57:45,440 --> 00:57:48,480
infrastructure of the Viet Cong. Of course, what that really

975
00:57:48,519 --> 00:57:52,599
means is on the ground is killing a lot of

976
00:57:52,599 --> 00:57:55,320
innocent people, torturing a lot of people, terrorizing them.

977
00:57:55,880 --> 00:58:01,519
Speaker 2: It's what you see in Apocalypse now. Yes, yeah, yeah,

978
00:58:01,559 --> 00:58:10,079
and that's of course created by William Colby. And I

979
00:58:10,119 --> 00:58:11,079
just lost my train of thought.

980
00:58:11,159 --> 00:58:15,119
Speaker 1: I was going to say, well, the implication is that

981
00:58:16,000 --> 00:58:20,559
if in order to subdue the civilian population of Vietnam

982
00:58:20,679 --> 00:58:24,239
to achieve whatever reject of the US government had in

983
00:58:24,320 --> 00:58:27,719
Vietnam at the time. Oh yeah, I'm go ahead, I'm sorry.

984
00:58:27,599 --> 00:58:30,440
Speaker 2: I remember now. So yeah, what you start to notice

985
00:58:30,519 --> 00:58:36,679
is that these operations that are run for foreign psychological operations.

986
00:58:37,840 --> 00:58:40,119
This is what I've been noticing the last couple of years,

987
00:58:40,199 --> 00:58:43,119
especially when you study the phenomena of the Color revolutions

988
00:58:43,199 --> 00:58:48,039
and Arab Spring and then all that kind of stuff,

989
00:58:48,039 --> 00:58:50,039
And then you also look at the School of the

990
00:58:50,079 --> 00:58:52,519
Americas and the Desk squads, and then you start to

991
00:58:52,559 --> 00:58:55,880
realize that that the foreign ops are kind of test tubes,

992
00:58:55,920 --> 00:58:58,360
and then maybe it looks like at times they'll they'll

993
00:58:58,360 --> 00:59:01,400
bring that back home and do it mastically. So it's

994
00:59:01,440 --> 00:59:03,639
not this is a pattern. I guess it's been going

995
00:59:03,639 --> 00:59:05,400
on for a long time, That's what I'm trying to say.

996
00:59:06,400 --> 00:59:09,199
Speaker 1: Yeah, and it's attempted to destabilize, and of course you're

997
00:59:09,239 --> 00:59:13,760
going to destabilize Honduras or l Salvador or Peru or

998
00:59:13,840 --> 00:59:17,519
Chile in a different way that you destabilize you know, Springfield, America,

999
00:59:17,960 --> 00:59:23,199
you know, Los Angeles. But uh, yeah, so the idea

1000
00:59:23,239 --> 00:59:26,119
of the Phoenix program. Obviously things like the I don't know,

1001
00:59:26,159 --> 00:59:31,679
Department Home Security grew out of the Phoenix program. The

1002
00:59:31,760 --> 00:59:34,199
ideas before it, you know, the basic idea of these

1003
00:59:34,280 --> 00:59:39,199
whole idea of of fusion centers is an adaptation of

1004
00:59:39,199 --> 00:59:43,480
the Phoenix program to model people. So all these so

1005
00:59:43,719 --> 00:59:46,320
these things don't go away. They're you know, they're you know,

1006
00:59:46,559 --> 00:59:55,519
they're tested and they're modified. But the idea of perhaps uh,

1007
00:59:55,920 --> 01:00:00,320
destabilizing the home front for for a particular reason, for

1008
01:00:00,480 --> 01:00:04,119
some sort of as MIKEA. Hofflin Systems of Alchemical process

1009
01:00:04,159 --> 01:00:08,400
so so to debate or degrade, to break down, to

1010
01:00:08,440 --> 01:00:13,239
atomize the civilization and the community. And obviously you get

1011
01:00:13,280 --> 01:00:15,800
that with the fear of crime and the serial killer

1012
01:00:17,840 --> 01:00:22,000
the he talks about it. Uh yeah, of.

1013
01:00:21,920 --> 01:00:24,559
Speaker 2: Course, that's the grado, the blackening.

1014
01:00:24,800 --> 01:00:27,440
Speaker 1: There you go, yeah, yeah, you're right exactly. Of course,

1015
01:00:27,480 --> 01:00:29,519
many serial murders are nothing more than the work of

1016
01:00:29,559 --> 01:00:32,480
a single individual acting on a graphic horror movie he saw,

1017
01:00:33,039 --> 01:00:36,199
or responding to a powerful psychotic impulse, impulses for aggression

1018
01:00:36,239 --> 01:00:39,519
and predation. But many other serial murders involved the cult,

1019
01:00:40,320 --> 01:00:42,559
a cult protected by the US government and the corporate

1020
01:00:42,599 --> 01:00:45,360
media with strong ties to the police. These murders, you know,

1021
01:00:45,480 --> 01:00:47,920
obviously you're starting on John Wan Gacy's evidence of that

1022
01:00:48,239 --> 01:00:51,920
these murders are actually intricately choreographed rituals, performed first on

1023
01:00:52,519 --> 01:00:55,840
a very intimate, secret scale among the initiates themselves in

1024
01:00:55,960 --> 01:00:59,119
order to program them, then on a grand scale amplified

1025
01:00:59,199 --> 01:01:03,119
and calculatul and caculably by the electronic media like natural

1026
01:01:03,119 --> 01:01:05,880
born killers. Right right, yeah, So there you go, and

1027
01:01:05,880 --> 01:01:07,559
this one gets in the end, what we have is

1028
01:01:07,559 --> 01:01:11,159
a highly symbolic ritual working broadcast and millions of people,

1029
01:01:11,199 --> 01:01:13,920
a Satanic inversion, a black mass where the pews are

1030
01:01:13,920 --> 01:01:18,840
filled by the entire nation, and through which humanity is paganized, brutalized,

1031
01:01:18,880 --> 01:01:24,239
and debased in this negrado phase about chemical process. Yeah,

1032
01:01:24,480 --> 01:01:28,360
so there you go, you're right, yeah, pressure you remember that? Yeah?

1033
01:01:28,519 --> 01:01:31,960
Uh And well, like I can see reading that if

1034
01:01:32,000 --> 01:01:34,719
you're just like an average Joe, you know who just

1035
01:01:35,119 --> 01:01:40,280
what is this guy talking about? But the uh and

1036
01:01:40,320 --> 01:01:42,000
you see that in burker Ritz, You see that in

1037
01:01:42,519 --> 01:01:44,920
uh in Bundy, you see it in John Wayne Gacy

1038
01:01:45,039 --> 01:01:50,039
and all these things. Jack the Ripper, Yeah, Jack the

1039
01:01:50,159 --> 01:01:54,239
Ripper is uh uh he chases the back duffer who

1040
01:01:54,320 --> 01:01:56,440
the guy's Laura gall I think was his name.

1041
01:01:57,440 --> 01:02:00,280
Speaker 2: Yeah, one of these like high level British Mason.

1042
01:02:00,320 --> 01:02:01,480
Speaker 1: Free Mason abortionists.

1043
01:02:01,559 --> 01:02:01,679
Speaker 2: Yea.

1044
01:02:03,960 --> 01:02:08,280
Speaker 1: And the point is, and he makes the point in

1045
01:02:08,639 --> 01:02:12,679
psychological warfare and secret society's suicide and psychological warfare is

1046
01:02:14,000 --> 01:02:16,760
this sort of process won't work in a society that's healthy.

1047
01:02:17,360 --> 01:02:19,800
So the study has to be broken down bit by

1048
01:02:19,880 --> 01:02:25,440
bit gradually, where if society gets brutalized and aren't brutalized

1049
01:02:25,519 --> 01:02:27,920
enough and did great enough, then it does work, because

1050
01:02:27,960 --> 01:02:31,039
a healthy society will have a natural defense mechanism for

1051
01:02:31,079 --> 01:02:31,599
these things.

1052
01:02:32,239 --> 01:02:37,639
Speaker 2: Yes, he uses the term theater of cruelty. So the

1053
01:02:37,960 --> 01:02:43,199
whole nation or the whole society becomes like the horror

1054
01:02:43,239 --> 01:02:47,800
movie and it's intended to brutalize, and that that kind

1055
01:02:47,800 --> 01:02:50,880
of goes It's a trauma based mind control on a

1056
01:02:51,079 --> 01:02:54,599
mass scale. And so in Dave's book, he talks about

1057
01:02:55,079 --> 01:02:58,320
the blooding. He's I'd never heard it called that. I've

1058
01:02:58,360 --> 01:03:00,920
just always heard people say, you know, people that are

1059
01:03:01,920 --> 01:03:06,559
severely disturbed, like these killers, you know, they're just traumatized.

1060
01:03:06,599 --> 01:03:09,199
But he calls it a blooding that at a certain

1061
01:03:09,239 --> 01:03:13,400
point in their lives, when they're younger, they're intentionally exposed

1062
01:03:13,440 --> 01:03:20,000
to the macabre and to something bloody or traumatic. Do

1063
01:03:20,039 --> 01:03:21,039
you remember what I'm talking about.

1064
01:03:21,159 --> 01:03:22,199
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly.

1065
01:03:22,239 --> 01:03:25,199
Speaker 2: Yeah. Like you know, there's sixteen and they get a

1066
01:03:25,280 --> 01:03:28,760
job at a morgue or something and they're like dealing

1067
01:03:28,760 --> 01:03:31,760
with cadavers and then you know, weird stuff's going on,

1068
01:03:31,920 --> 01:03:36,760
and you know, this is I'm not saying that everybody

1069
01:03:36,760 --> 01:03:40,159
who is a mortician's evil. I'm just saying that in

1070
01:03:40,199 --> 01:03:44,119
the cases of these people, He's noted that as a

1071
01:03:44,440 --> 01:03:48,000
consistent pattern that you know, they had some sort of

1072
01:03:50,039 --> 01:03:54,840
grotesque exposure you know that scarred them I guess in

1073
01:03:54,880 --> 01:03:57,360
some way at a formative period in their life.

1074
01:03:57,519 --> 01:04:03,800
Speaker 1: Yeah, And he makes point what this, what these uh,

1075
01:04:03,880 --> 01:04:08,920
what this trauma creates is? He says, it's a what

1076
01:04:08,960 --> 01:04:11,280
we observe in the population today. Are there three destructive

1077
01:04:11,320 --> 01:04:14,239
symptoms of persons whose minds are controlled by alien forces?

1078
01:04:14,239 --> 01:04:16,280
I guess what he means by that is the psychological

1079
01:04:16,360 --> 01:04:20,840
warfare amnesia, i e. Loss of memory, abulia, loss of will,

1080
01:04:20,840 --> 01:04:23,360
and apathy loss of interest in the events vital to

1081
01:04:23,440 --> 01:04:27,039
one's on health and survival. Amnesia, abulia, and apathy are

1082
01:04:27,039 --> 01:04:30,679
nearly universal amongst today and gaining a greater foothole each

1083
01:04:30,719 --> 01:04:36,280
passing day. This and this is done again through the

1084
01:04:36,280 --> 01:04:40,320
electronic media, through entertainment. He even talks about what breads

1085
01:04:40,400 --> 01:04:42,800
and circuses and the effects.

1086
01:04:42,440 --> 01:04:48,320
Speaker 2: Of that Negrado process. Uh. It's a page sixty seven

1087
01:04:48,360 --> 01:04:49,840
that may have been where you were reading. But he says,

1088
01:04:49,840 --> 01:04:52,239
in the end, we have a highly symbolic ritual broadcast

1089
01:04:53,159 --> 01:04:55,679
to millions of people, a satanic conversion of black matter,

1090
01:04:55,719 --> 01:04:58,960
where the peues are filled with the entire nation, the

1091
01:04:58,960 --> 01:05:01,199
Negrado phase. Then he goes to say. The French adept

1092
01:05:01,280 --> 01:05:06,039
Antony and Are Todd, architect of the Theater of Cruelty,

1093
01:05:06,440 --> 01:05:09,679
wrote about this in terms of the group mind. Aside

1094
01:05:09,679 --> 01:05:12,360
from trifling witchcraft of country sorcerers, there are tricks of

1095
01:05:12,440 --> 01:05:17,440
global who do in which all alerted consciousness participate periodically.

1096
01:05:17,519 --> 01:05:20,480
That is how the strange forces are aroused and transported

1097
01:05:20,519 --> 01:05:23,719
to the astral vault, to that dark dome. Now this

1098
01:05:23,840 --> 01:05:25,679
all sounds kind of crazy, but what the guy's saying

1099
01:05:25,760 --> 01:05:29,880
is that when you have a huge event like the

1100
01:05:29,920 --> 01:05:33,599
whole nation's fixated on Manson or the whole nations fixated

1101
01:05:33,679 --> 01:05:39,400
on Zodiac or nine to eleven, that it's understood that

1102
01:05:40,719 --> 01:05:46,519
you can reason from the individual to the collective. So

1103
01:05:46,559 --> 01:05:50,760
if you have an individual who is traumatizing because he's

1104
01:05:50,800 --> 01:05:55,840
fixated on you know that the shock that happened, that

1105
01:05:55,880 --> 01:05:59,360
you can do that same process on a mass scale

1106
01:05:59,679 --> 01:06:02,800
through having everybody's energy and focus, you know, an attention

1107
01:06:02,960 --> 01:06:07,440
on you know, whatever this gigantic so called crime is,

1108
01:06:07,760 --> 01:06:09,920
z Yeah or Manson or whatever, and that what that

1109
01:06:09,960 --> 01:06:13,480
does is then that everybody's participating in this process of

1110
01:06:13,559 --> 01:06:19,840
being being ritualized. You're you're being You're going through the

1111
01:06:19,880 --> 01:06:22,800
ritual process. I've written a bunch of articles on mass

1112
01:06:22,840 --> 01:06:25,559
media is like a ritual process. But but anyway, that's

1113
01:06:25,559 --> 01:06:28,480
what that's what happens saying. Is that just just hammering

1114
01:06:28,519 --> 01:06:31,519
home that point that that I've been arguing too, that

1115
01:06:31,599 --> 01:06:35,480
you can you can reason from the individual to the

1116
01:06:35,719 --> 01:06:38,599
from the micro to the macro scale to understand and

1117
01:06:38,639 --> 01:06:40,639
that's exactly what they did with the kulture is they've

1118
01:06:42,119 --> 01:06:46,239
expanded the the individual studies to the mass you know.

1119
01:06:46,599 --> 01:06:50,199
Speaker 1: Yeah, same, not just through the h with drug distribution

1120
01:06:50,519 --> 01:06:54,360
and also with meat, mass media and psychological.

1121
01:06:53,800 --> 01:06:54,920
Speaker 2: Warfare exactly right.

1122
01:06:54,960 --> 01:06:59,039
Speaker 1: Yeah, Yeah, here's the part he says it much better

1123
01:06:59,039 --> 01:07:01,519
than I said. He says talking about he's talking about

1124
01:07:01,559 --> 01:07:03,559
revelation the method, and talking about why would they reveal

1125
01:07:03,599 --> 01:07:06,840
what they're doing? How would that serve the uh, the

1126
01:07:06,880 --> 01:07:09,880
interest of the cryptocracy? He says, why would the perpetrators

1127
01:07:09,880 --> 01:07:12,199
want to their secrets revealed after the fact, even if

1128
01:07:12,239 --> 01:07:19,840
it is years later? The question, sorry, the the question

1129
01:07:20,039 --> 01:07:22,679
can only be definitively answered if one has an understanding

1130
01:07:22,719 --> 01:07:25,480
of the zeitgeist, which overseers in the cryptocracy have partly

1131
01:07:25,559 --> 01:07:29,199
manufactured and partly tailored their own operations to coincide with

1132
01:07:29,800 --> 01:07:32,360
As I've pointed out, secrets like this were rarely revealed

1133
01:07:32,360 --> 01:07:34,639
in the past because traditional people had yet had not

1134
01:07:34,719 --> 01:07:39,079
yet completed the out chemical processing. To make such perverse

1135
01:07:39,159 --> 01:07:44,599
modern revelations to an unprocessed, healthy, vigorous population possessed of will, memory,

1136
01:07:44,639 --> 01:07:47,920
adherence to their deepest inner intuition and interests, and intense

1137
01:07:47,960 --> 01:07:50,440
interest in their own salvation would not have been a

1138
01:07:50,440 --> 01:07:53,039
good thing for the cryptocracy. It would have proved fatal

1139
01:07:53,079 --> 01:07:57,360
to them. But to reveal it after the acts of secret,

1140
01:07:58,280 --> 01:08:01,519
I'm sorry, oh sorry, But to reveal it, you know,

1141
01:08:01,719 --> 01:08:06,480
players after they've been processed. I lost my quote there. Well,

1142
01:08:06,639 --> 01:08:10,280
basically to reveal it later after they've been processed, they

1143
01:08:10,320 --> 01:08:12,280
can't respond to it, and then they fall into that

1144
01:08:12,440 --> 01:08:15,119
when he was talking about loss of will, loss of memory,

1145
01:08:15,639 --> 01:08:21,720
and apathy, and they can then be you know, they

1146
01:08:21,720 --> 01:08:22,720
can then be manipulated.

1147
01:08:23,640 --> 01:08:26,680
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's like the hypnotist with the victim there, you know,

1148
01:08:26,920 --> 01:08:31,680
like Spengali. This is the government of Spengali and you're

1149
01:08:31,760 --> 01:08:38,760
the beautiful young maiden you know, yeah, in the population exactly.

1150
01:08:38,920 --> 01:08:43,079
Speaker 1: Yeah, but again you're and we're talking again, what's going

1151
01:08:43,119 --> 01:08:47,279
on again? It's which why does would go, it's the

1152
01:08:47,319 --> 01:08:49,119
serial killer would come on the scene. In the late

1153
01:08:49,159 --> 01:08:52,039
sixties and the height of the Vietnam War, and going

1154
01:08:52,039 --> 01:08:55,199
into the seventies, you have the economic crisis of the

1155
01:08:55,239 --> 01:08:58,439
nineteen seventies, the closing of the gold window at the

1156
01:08:58,520 --> 01:09:02,760
end of Breton Woods, the debasement of the dollars and

1157
01:09:03,199 --> 01:09:07,520
coincides also the cultural debasement of the of the American people.

1158
01:09:09,560 --> 01:09:14,039
This feminism, the promotion of perversion like gay rights through

1159
01:09:14,079 --> 01:09:17,479
planned parenthood, these things. This is trending society upside down

1160
01:09:17,520 --> 01:09:23,720
and making everyone confused. The uh targeting of things like

1161
01:09:23,760 --> 01:09:27,439
the family that was that occurred would also lead to

1162
01:09:27,560 --> 01:09:32,560
further degradation also for the trauma, which would complete the process.

1163
01:09:33,119 --> 01:09:37,079
What you're seeing now, the confusion we're seeing exactly.

1164
01:09:37,239 --> 01:09:41,920
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I mean, the the alchemical process includes the

1165
01:09:41,960 --> 01:09:48,199
period or the stage of androgyny, and that's ultimately the

1166
01:09:48,600 --> 01:09:52,319
meaning of the bathroom met symbol altheum that is, androgynists

1167
01:09:52,319 --> 01:09:55,800
has both genders. And if you listen to a lot

1168
01:09:55,800 --> 01:09:58,720
of interviews with these people who are really into this

1169
01:09:59,359 --> 01:10:03,239
trans stuff, and I'm speaking kind of across the board,

1170
01:10:03,399 --> 01:10:11,920
like if they're into transhumanism or trans maybe well maybe transvestite.

1171
01:10:11,960 --> 01:10:14,920
But there's there's some pop culture so called icons who

1172
01:10:14,920 --> 01:10:20,600
have uh watched documentaries on who talk about their their

1173
01:10:20,640 --> 01:10:23,439
beliefs and why they wanted to change their genders, like

1174
01:10:23,479 --> 01:10:27,199
this weirdoh Genesis p Orridge, who's a kind of a

1175
01:10:27,199 --> 01:10:31,399
punk figure, post punk or whatever you call it just

1176
01:10:31,439 --> 01:10:36,159
makes noise. The guys mentally eat unstable obviously, but he

1177
01:10:36,239 --> 01:10:40,680
went through the gender process or to some degree gender

1178
01:10:40,760 --> 01:10:44,479
change excuse me, reassign or whatever, and he's he goes

1179
01:10:44,520 --> 01:10:46,680
into it and he starts talking about alchemy. He says, well,

1180
01:10:46,720 --> 01:10:49,319
I'm a fervent believer in alchemy, and I believe that

1181
01:10:50,199 --> 01:10:54,920
in the original state of whatever the divine was or

1182
01:10:54,960 --> 01:10:59,079
whatever we evolved from, that it was neither male nor female,

1183
01:10:59,800 --> 01:11:02,399
or in some cases they'll actually say they believe that

1184
01:11:02,399 --> 01:11:06,039
it was female that we all evolve from, like some

1185
01:11:06,079 --> 01:11:12,159
sort of feminine primal cell. So you get In other words,

1186
01:11:12,159 --> 01:11:14,840
it's all based on nonsense. It's all based on myths

1187
01:11:14,880 --> 01:11:19,039
and gnostic fables. But they will say that since and

1188
01:11:19,079 --> 01:11:22,119
this isn't neo platonism too, and platonism, that the original

1189
01:11:23,279 --> 01:11:27,640
unity could not have any distinctions or particularities, that couldn't

1190
01:11:27,680 --> 01:11:31,840
have masculinity or femininity, so it had to be that

1191
01:11:31,840 --> 01:11:33,880
that has to be the state that we got to

1192
01:11:33,920 --> 01:11:37,079
get back to. Right, and this fits all into the

1193
01:11:37,199 --> 01:11:39,399
stuff that Huxley talks about openly. So you have to

1194
01:11:40,079 --> 01:11:42,359
we have to get rid of distinctions. That the enemy

1195
01:11:42,359 --> 01:11:46,119
of the future will be distinctions, distinct nations, distinct genders,

1196
01:11:46,359 --> 01:11:51,399
distinct racis, distinct religion, distinct claims. All that has to

1197
01:11:51,399 --> 01:11:56,279
be destroyed in the name of unity and globalism. That's

1198
01:11:56,319 --> 01:12:00,680
literally what Huxley says. So they are where of alchemy.

1199
01:12:00,720 --> 01:12:04,399
In fact, I think even Kestler in Ghosts of the

1200
01:12:04,399 --> 01:12:09,319
Machine talks about the whole process is alchemy. And you say, well,

1201
01:12:09,359 --> 01:12:12,359
they're scientists that don't believe in medieval alchemy. Well, it's

1202
01:12:12,439 --> 01:12:15,880
those are just terms for the same process, right. So

1203
01:12:15,920 --> 01:12:21,680
if you you know, if you take, if you're taking

1204
01:12:21,800 --> 01:12:25,279
genetically modify, if you're if you're taking a fish scale

1205
01:12:25,319 --> 01:12:28,880
and putting it into a tomato to make the tomatoes

1206
01:12:29,119 --> 01:12:35,119
skin stronger against pesticides, you're not doing anything different than

1207
01:12:35,159 --> 01:12:38,880
what a medieval alchemist wanted to do. He just didn't

1208
01:12:38,880 --> 01:12:41,560
have the means to do it or the technology do

1209
01:12:41,640 --> 01:12:43,079
But that's at least what he was trying to do

1210
01:12:43,279 --> 01:12:46,760
was you know, mess up creation and whatnot. Uh. And

1211
01:12:46,800 --> 01:12:50,840
that's really what alchemy is is just the the the

1212
01:12:50,880 --> 01:13:01,600
attempt to it's the domination of nature through technical ultimately

1213
01:13:01,640 --> 01:13:05,039
at the chemical biological level. Uh. That's that's what I

1214
01:13:05,119 --> 01:13:07,880
read alchemy as. So. Yeah, I mean there's all this

1215
01:13:07,960 --> 01:13:10,399
kind of spiritual stuff that people try to tack onto it.

1216
01:13:10,439 --> 01:13:15,399
Of John d would say, oh, I can turn base

1217
01:13:15,520 --> 01:13:20,640
matter into God, you can become God through my alchemical steps,

1218
01:13:20,640 --> 01:13:23,039
and enoch in magic. But I think a lot of

1219
01:13:23,079 --> 01:13:24,640
that stuff is just they were just con men.

1220
01:13:25,600 --> 01:13:25,800
Speaker 1: You know.

1221
01:13:25,840 --> 01:13:31,680
Speaker 2: Alchemy is is more so chemistry. That's what it eventually becomes,

1222
01:13:31,800 --> 01:13:35,399
is the it's chemistry. But but what is so fascinating

1223
01:13:35,640 --> 01:13:38,560
is that even if we deride or laugh at the

1224
01:13:38,600 --> 01:13:43,800
notion of alchemy, you know, what the establishment is doing,

1225
01:13:43,960 --> 01:13:48,760
what genetics research is doing, what bioengineering is doing, what

1226
01:13:48,800 --> 01:13:53,800
geoengineering is doing, is actually you know, creating the the

1227
01:13:53,840 --> 01:13:58,560
monstrosities that the alchemist talked about. Yeah, not liberal Well

1228
01:13:58,600 --> 01:14:00,479
I don't know what they actually do in clone labs.

1229
01:14:00,479 --> 01:14:02,479
Who knows what they're doing. But when we look at

1230
01:14:02,760 --> 01:14:05,880
you know, sinomics, and we look at the aborted fetal

1231
01:14:05,920 --> 01:14:09,920
cells being used for the flavoring in pepsi and four

1232
01:14:10,319 --> 01:14:14,600
the vaccines, which is all true. You know that that's alchemy,

1233
01:14:14,640 --> 01:14:15,560
that's dark alchemy.

1234
01:14:17,279 --> 01:14:20,800
Speaker 1: Yes, you also made it interesting because in your talk

1235
01:14:21,319 --> 01:14:25,720
you talk about serial killers, and Michael Hoffman a point

1236
01:14:25,800 --> 01:14:28,680
that's basically it's the promotion of thanatosis, So the cult

1237
01:14:28,720 --> 01:14:33,920
of death, it's being promoted in all this h and

1238
01:14:34,479 --> 01:14:39,520
you mentioned well, women with multiple abortions and how sort

1239
01:14:39,560 --> 01:14:39,800
of the.

1240
01:14:40,279 --> 01:14:42,199
Speaker 2: That's never mentioned as psychopathy.

1241
01:14:42,520 --> 01:14:46,600
Speaker 1: Yeah, but he makes it's very fun because in psychological warfare,

1242
01:14:46,840 --> 01:14:52,840
secret society and psychological warfare. He says, of course, no

1243
01:14:52,840 --> 01:14:56,079
matter what her affiliations, Sharon Tate's murder was a heinous crime.

1244
01:14:56,560 --> 01:14:58,920
It's interesting to note that while much is made of

1245
01:14:58,920 --> 01:15:01,239
the murder of her unb baby as being the most

1246
01:15:01,239 --> 01:15:05,600
horrible part of the Mason gangs are called violence, women

1247
01:15:05,680 --> 01:15:07,920
who pay physicians to kill their unborn babies are not

1248
01:15:07,960 --> 01:15:11,640
regarded as guilty of any satanic act, heinous or otherwise.

1249
01:15:12,079 --> 01:15:14,880
With the sacrifice of Sharon Tate's unborn baby somehow a

1250
01:15:14,960 --> 01:15:19,199
ritual precursor for the coming mass sacrifice of unborn children,

1251
01:15:19,359 --> 01:15:23,079
which was subsequently legalized by the United States Supreme Court.

1252
01:15:23,680 --> 01:15:25,359
So this was August nineteen seventy nine. Of course, for

1253
01:15:25,600 --> 01:15:29,560
the Wade is January nineteen seventy three. That was an

1254
01:15:29,720 --> 01:15:30,439
interesting point.

1255
01:15:31,359 --> 01:15:33,439
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, think about and here we are now with

1256
01:15:33,840 --> 01:15:37,079
Kurt Gosmill, m guys like that.

1257
01:15:38,840 --> 01:15:44,079
Speaker 4: So so, I mean, people, people might balk at the

1258
01:15:44,119 --> 01:15:49,439
idea of ritual and in power behind these kinds of acts.

1259
01:15:49,479 --> 01:15:54,239
Speaker 2: But if you I'm not saying that shamanism is true.

1260
01:15:54,520 --> 01:15:57,560
Obviously I don't believe in shamanism, but if you read

1261
01:15:59,159 --> 01:16:03,159
the approach that shamans have, or the how they go

1262
01:16:03,199 --> 01:16:06,039
about their process of understanding the world and their ritual

1263
01:16:06,119 --> 01:16:09,119
process and all that, even though I think they're totally wrong,

1264
01:16:10,319 --> 01:16:14,840
in a way, it's perhaps spiritually speaking, a little more

1265
01:16:16,600 --> 01:16:22,479
closer to the mark because they understand that, you know,

1266
01:16:23,039 --> 01:16:27,920
they're tapping into entities on the other side. And we

1267
01:16:28,039 --> 01:16:30,479
would laugh at that, bulk at that in modern America,

1268
01:16:30,560 --> 01:16:34,479
we think that that's so superstitious and stupid. But you know,

1269
01:16:34,479 --> 01:16:38,920
there are many many indigenous tribes and shamans out there

1270
01:16:38,960 --> 01:16:42,159
in the world, and many of them still take hallucinogens.

1271
01:16:42,720 --> 01:16:45,439
This is being promoted in our country I've had bad

1272
01:16:45,479 --> 01:16:49,319
experiences on hallucingens, so I know directly that you know,

1273
01:16:49,359 --> 01:16:52,960
you're tampering with the psyche and you're tampering with your spirit,

1274
01:16:54,079 --> 01:16:57,079
and that's a dangerous road to go down. And I

1275
01:16:57,119 --> 01:16:59,479
also think that the LSD was a big part of it,

1276
01:16:59,520 --> 01:17:03,439
that that just as the shaman goes through an initiation,

1277
01:17:04,319 --> 01:17:06,760
the promotion of LSD I think was a kind of

1278
01:17:07,279 --> 01:17:16,720
ritual process because again and when Gordon Wasson and you know,

1279
01:17:16,760 --> 01:17:19,560
these characters went and got the ergots for the creation

1280
01:17:19,640 --> 01:17:25,439
of LSD at the Sandels Pharmaceutical Corporation, they were also

1281
01:17:25,560 --> 01:17:30,920
aware of what the shamans were able to do when

1282
01:17:30,960 --> 01:17:36,720
the shamans would initiate people. So you cannot divorce these

1283
01:17:36,800 --> 01:17:43,039
drugs from that process, even though even though we tend

1284
01:17:43,079 --> 01:17:45,520
to think of them as divorced from it, like oh, yeah,

1285
01:17:45,560 --> 01:17:48,520
we're just partying, we're just hanging out, and I'm saying that, No,

1286
01:17:48,600 --> 01:17:52,039
there's an actual power behind these things. That's very dangerous,

1287
01:17:52,079 --> 01:17:55,279
and that's why so many people go crazy and you know,

1288
01:17:55,359 --> 01:17:58,239
jump out of buildings and plunging to their death, and

1289
01:17:59,039 --> 01:18:01,039
you know, see, you know that they get lost in

1290
01:18:01,119 --> 01:18:05,079
other realms in their mind, they're crazy. You know, all

1291
01:18:05,119 --> 01:18:07,680
that stuff happens for a reason, because this is very

1292
01:18:07,760 --> 01:18:12,680
dangerous and basically what I'm saying is a satanic is

1293
01:18:12,720 --> 01:18:15,800
what I'm trying to say. Yeah, I'm not saying that

1294
01:18:15,880 --> 01:18:18,800
drugs in themselves are always bad. Obviously, nothing that God

1295
01:18:18,840 --> 01:18:22,159
created in itself is evil. But what I'm saying is

1296
01:18:22,159 --> 01:18:27,239
that the mass promotion of these things and the pharmaceutical

1297
01:18:27,319 --> 01:18:30,399
usage of these things, I think generally speaking, is not

1298
01:18:30,600 --> 01:18:31,840
for human well being.

1299
01:18:32,199 --> 01:18:34,000
Speaker 1: Yeah, well, that's if you look at the how many

1300
01:18:34,159 --> 01:18:37,680
college students I think John Rapperport did I think had

1301
01:18:38,159 --> 01:18:40,359
an article talking about how twenty five percent of college

1302
01:18:40,359 --> 01:18:46,800
students are receiving psychotic care. Yes, and they're being dyna

1303
01:18:46,920 --> 01:18:49,880
and they're given you know, psychatrific drugs to deal with

1304
01:18:49,880 --> 01:18:54,800
their problems. When you know, anyone looking at why a

1305
01:18:54,880 --> 01:18:58,640
freshman or sophomore college might having might have living problems

1306
01:18:58,680 --> 01:19:00,399
because they're away from home for the first time, not

1307
01:19:00,439 --> 01:19:03,479
doing well. Maybe they received a bad education, poor education

1308
01:19:03,479 --> 01:19:05,920
in high school. Maybe I don't know. Maybe you know,

1309
01:19:05,960 --> 01:19:08,079
they're very guilty because they're hooking up too much. Maybe

1310
01:19:08,079 --> 01:19:11,239
they're you know, all types of things that have nothing

1311
01:19:11,239 --> 01:19:13,199
to do with uh, that can that can be dealt

1312
01:19:13,239 --> 01:19:18,159
with through pharmacology. Yeah, but the schools themselves have become

1313
01:19:19,199 --> 01:19:25,560
not only uh uh instruments for for debt bondage, you know,

1314
01:19:25,640 --> 01:19:28,640
predatory loan institutions, but they've also become a mass mic

1315
01:19:28,640 --> 01:19:33,000
control operation, not just through just do poor education or indoctrination,

1316
01:19:33,439 --> 01:19:34,279
but through drugs.

1317
01:19:34,479 --> 01:19:39,640
Speaker 2: Apparently, right right, I did. I would recommend people too.

1318
01:19:39,680 --> 01:19:42,239
I did an essay or an article I don't know,

1319
01:19:42,319 --> 01:19:46,279
four or five years ago, but I can't remember the

1320
01:19:46,319 --> 01:19:50,079
name of the times, something like Masculine Feminine Wisdom or

1321
01:19:50,079 --> 01:19:53,199
something like that, and it's about the drug experience. And

1322
01:19:53,239 --> 01:19:57,279
I'm actually arguing against the use of hallucinogens because I

1323
01:19:57,319 --> 01:20:01,239
see them as such a spiritual danger. Nobody talks about

1324
01:20:01,239 --> 01:20:03,520
them as a spiritual danger. And that's what's very surprising

1325
01:20:03,560 --> 01:20:07,359
to me, because you can watch the BBC documentary as

1326
01:20:07,359 --> 01:20:10,000
a whole series of this guy, Bruce Perry I think

1327
01:20:10,079 --> 01:20:14,800
is his name, and he just totally really stupid on

1328
01:20:14,840 --> 01:20:19,159
his part, went and found like twelve, ten or twelve

1329
01:20:19,159 --> 01:20:22,479
different indigenous tribes and he went through the ritual process

1330
01:20:22,560 --> 01:20:25,199
of all these tribes to be initiated in and most

1331
01:20:25,239 --> 01:20:29,039
of them involved the usage of hallucinogens and pretty heavy

1332
01:20:29,039 --> 01:20:33,920
talksins at times. And you know, he describes this process too,

1333
01:20:34,039 --> 01:20:37,520
and he really he eventually came to realization that it

1334
01:20:37,600 --> 01:20:40,960
was all it was. It couldn't really be divorced from

1335
01:20:41,000 --> 01:20:49,079
its spiritual significance, and and it ended up being a

1336
01:20:49,119 --> 01:20:51,720
bad thing for him, Like he felt like he had

1337
01:20:51,720 --> 01:20:55,479
to go get like psychiatric help eventually after he had

1338
01:20:55,520 --> 01:20:58,840
done all this, which was completely stupid. I mean, I

1339
01:20:58,880 --> 01:21:02,279
can't yeah, assuming that he really did all this, that

1340
01:21:02,319 --> 01:21:04,159
it wasn't like a BBC put on or something. Yeah,

1341
01:21:04,520 --> 01:21:05,960
he really did this. You know, he had to get

1342
01:21:06,359 --> 01:21:10,680
psychiatric help, and you know, he had experienced too much

1343
01:21:11,239 --> 01:21:16,279
dark stuff. But you know, I swear on it that

1344
01:21:16,319 --> 01:21:20,600
it's real. You will you will encounter dark things. Not

1345
01:21:20,680 --> 01:21:22,840
every time, not every single person. I can't speak for,

1346
01:21:23,039 --> 01:21:25,680
because it's it's more of a like you kind of

1347
01:21:25,680 --> 01:21:28,840
take this inner journey and you're kind of forced to

1348
01:21:28,880 --> 01:21:32,079
deal with the issues that you have. Now, some people

1349
01:21:32,119 --> 01:21:34,920
think that that's a positive thing and that psychology should

1350
01:21:34,960 --> 01:21:36,760
utilize these things. I don't think it is. I think

1351
01:21:36,800 --> 01:21:40,199
that's a trick. I think it's totally dark. You look

1352
01:21:40,239 --> 01:21:42,159
at the history of the church for example, when the

1353
01:21:42,239 --> 01:21:45,079
church would do its missionary work and they would find

1354
01:21:45,920 --> 01:21:49,319
these indigenous tribes and so forth, they were doing this.

1355
01:21:50,560 --> 01:21:53,399
It's almost always the same thing like that the Shamans

1356
01:21:54,039 --> 01:21:56,720
who are have been the blast of their mind on

1357
01:21:56,760 --> 01:21:59,920
these drugs and try to control the people through these drugs.

1358
01:22:00,199 --> 01:22:00,399
Speaker 1: Uh.

1359
01:22:01,079 --> 01:22:04,560
Speaker 2: They they're not These are not healthy people. We have

1360
01:22:04,680 --> 01:22:10,039
this mistake and assumption that oh, all the innocent, the

1361
01:22:10,039 --> 01:22:14,199
noble savage right of Rousseau or something. That's not true.

1362
01:22:14,439 --> 01:22:19,039
These people are not the noble savages, so that that

1363
01:22:19,119 --> 01:22:22,399
all needs to be I think debunked. And who's the

1364
01:22:22,439 --> 01:22:30,119
woman who did the the famous anthropologist to Margaret Meat.

1365
01:22:31,199 --> 01:22:33,239
Margaret Meat, her stuff is debunked too, that she.

1366
01:22:33,239 --> 01:22:35,239
Speaker 1: Was, Yeah, Chris, she was the spouse of great Greed

1367
01:22:35,279 --> 01:22:39,880
Bateson who weaponized anthropology. Yeah, it was all done to

1368
01:22:40,159 --> 01:22:42,600
exploit primitive people. Then the only problems they look at

1369
01:22:42,640 --> 01:22:45,319
us as primitive, the general public is primitive being for

1370
01:22:45,359 --> 01:22:46,760
being manipulated.

1371
01:22:47,159 --> 01:22:47,319
Speaker 2: Uh.

1372
01:22:47,359 --> 01:22:50,560
Speaker 1: I well back if you doctor Hans Uder, and we

1373
01:22:50,560 --> 01:22:55,159
were talking about very thing actually, and he's talking about

1374
01:22:55,199 --> 01:22:57,039
you and Cameron and his some of you and Cameron's

1375
01:22:57,039 --> 01:23:00,560
research over there at the Alla Memorial Institute or to

1376
01:23:00,600 --> 01:23:06,720
see if psychosis could be well, uh, it could spread

1377
01:23:07,279 --> 01:23:08,680
like a disease, like a contagion.

1378
01:23:09,479 --> 01:23:09,880
Speaker 2: Mm hmm.

1379
01:23:10,399 --> 01:23:14,079
Speaker 1: And well it's interesting because, like anything, if it could

1380
01:23:14,760 --> 01:23:18,159
uh under the pretext of trying to contain the contagion,

1381
01:23:18,199 --> 01:23:21,119
they like a buy weapon, they'd seek to weaponize it.

1382
01:23:22,039 --> 01:23:25,479
How can you can you spread psychosis like a contagion

1383
01:23:25,479 --> 01:23:28,000
through society? And I think they have and I think

1384
01:23:28,039 --> 01:23:33,279
the serial killer, terrorism, these things fear is in a

1385
01:23:33,319 --> 01:23:37,239
way doing that because people lose their critical faculties and

1386
01:23:37,279 --> 01:23:38,479
that you can see that as a sort of a

1387
01:23:38,479 --> 01:23:42,039
psychosis how people respond to these threats that were told exist.

1388
01:23:42,119 --> 01:23:45,359
It's it is a certain psychosis mass communication. I mean

1389
01:23:46,119 --> 01:23:51,199
christalpher for Simpson's book the uh the Science of Coercion,

1390
01:23:51,319 --> 01:23:54,720
talks about the whole study of mass communication. It's refinement,

1391
01:23:54,960 --> 01:23:57,039
which for mass manipulation. And this goes back to the

1392
01:23:57,039 --> 01:23:58,920
Princeton Radio Project. In the world of the worlds and

1393
01:23:58,960 --> 01:24:03,840
these things, you know, yeah, it's not there to enlighten

1394
01:24:03,920 --> 01:24:08,279
or educate. And a lot of these these figures, I mean,

1395
01:24:08,319 --> 01:24:11,359
whether they're they're put up there to inform us and

1396
01:24:11,479 --> 01:24:15,479
educate us, they're stage actors, they're they're they're they're spooks,

1397
01:24:15,680 --> 01:24:21,840
the s S agents like you know, you know, mm hmm, yeah.

1398
01:24:21,880 --> 01:24:24,960
People have trust in these in these institutions. It's it's amazing,

1399
01:24:25,079 --> 01:24:29,720
you know, out of ignurse. I guess I suppose, you know, right.

1400
01:24:29,800 --> 01:24:34,399
Speaker 2: And another thing too is you can't overlook the the

1401
01:24:34,760 --> 01:24:38,039
the drug aspect of a lot of these killers. So

1402
01:24:38,039 --> 01:24:41,239
a lot of these guys were drug addicts or are

1403
01:24:41,319 --> 01:24:41,960
on drugs or.

1404
01:24:41,920 --> 01:24:42,560
Speaker 1: Were on drugs.

1405
01:24:43,079 --> 01:24:46,479
Speaker 2: So you know, like Manson for example, Manson was bombed

1406
01:24:46,479 --> 01:24:50,199
out of his mind on LSD for for all these years. Uh,

1407
01:24:50,279 --> 01:24:52,359
and you know he's not he doesn't even really seem

1408
01:24:52,359 --> 01:24:54,880
to be president. Like I don't think that that guy,

1409
01:24:55,000 --> 01:25:00,479
whoever he was originally that persona is gone. Yeah. So

1410
01:25:01,920 --> 01:25:05,800
I think that also suggests again a connection to not

1411
01:25:06,119 --> 01:25:10,520
just the counterculture and the sixties lifestyle or something like that,

1412
01:25:10,720 --> 01:25:16,359
but or the hate Ashbury lifestyle, the flower child lifestyle.

1413
01:25:16,439 --> 01:25:21,079
But you know, I think that suggests more is at work, right,

1414
01:25:21,159 --> 01:25:22,800
I mean, because if you've got guys that have been

1415
01:25:23,239 --> 01:25:30,680
through these institutions, the prisons, Vacaville, mental institutions, the juvenile institutions,

1416
01:25:31,119 --> 01:25:35,960
and they've been given or on who knows what hallucinogens.

1417
01:25:36,920 --> 01:25:38,640
I mean, I just I don't think that you can

1418
01:25:38,880 --> 01:25:45,800
underestimate the intensity of what can be done through the

1419
01:25:45,960 --> 01:25:49,840
chemical concoctions that can be made. I mean, you can,

1420
01:25:51,239 --> 01:25:54,920
you know, especially back in the fifties and sixties, before

1421
01:25:55,000 --> 01:25:57,479
people really knew what these drugs were and what they

1422
01:25:57,520 --> 01:26:00,359
could do. I mean, I tend to think that there's

1423
01:26:00,399 --> 01:26:04,000
probably a connection to the UFO phenomenon as well. This

1424
01:26:04,119 --> 01:26:06,880
is just a speculation on my part, but you know,

1425
01:26:06,920 --> 01:26:11,239
a lot of the experiences that people have on LSD

1426
01:26:11,600 --> 01:26:17,319
or d M T or ayahuasca and all these different ellutions,

1427
01:26:18,279 --> 01:26:22,319
they tend to speak like they're talking to aliens too, right,

1428
01:26:23,199 --> 01:26:26,079
if they think they're they're communicating with the gods or

1429
01:26:26,079 --> 01:26:30,159
the aliens. So it could also be the case, just

1430
01:26:30,199 --> 01:26:32,399
throwing it out there, what if a lot of the

1431
01:26:32,520 --> 01:26:38,359
people who think that they interacted with UFOs they could

1432
01:26:38,399 --> 01:26:41,800
have been given drugs and it would it would be

1433
01:26:42,000 --> 01:26:49,600
very easy to simulate or cause someone to believe that

1434
01:26:50,319 --> 01:26:54,199
in the midst of a serious drug trip. Yeah, I mean,

1435
01:26:54,279 --> 01:26:56,439
that would be very easy to do, especially if you

1436
01:26:56,479 --> 01:26:59,520
know your farmer brown or something in the fifties and

1437
01:26:59,600 --> 01:27:02,279
you have no I do what LSD or iahwask Is,

1438
01:27:02,920 --> 01:27:04,960
you know what I mean? And uh, you know you're

1439
01:27:05,039 --> 01:27:07,880
tested on and then you know, all you'd have to

1440
01:27:07,920 --> 01:27:10,920
do is like turn a fan on outside and blink

1441
01:27:11,039 --> 01:27:14,359
some lights, you know what I mean. Farmer Brown would

1442
01:27:14,359 --> 01:27:18,920
think that that was a UFO. I mean literally, yeah,

1443
01:27:19,000 --> 01:27:20,920
in the midst of and so then he comes on

1444
01:27:21,199 --> 01:27:24,680
it comes out, Oh, I've seen I've seen the space visitors.

1445
01:27:24,760 --> 01:27:27,199
They came to me last night. They I was out

1446
01:27:27,239 --> 01:27:30,960
of my body, had out of experience, all of which

1447
01:27:31,039 --> 01:27:34,079
all of which lines up with the LSD experience.

1448
01:27:35,039 --> 01:27:36,399
Speaker 1: That's a great read to. I mean, if you're gonna

1449
01:27:36,560 --> 01:27:40,920
experiment on someone and just when you finish, when you

1450
01:27:41,000 --> 01:27:43,079
finish with him, just create like an alien experience and

1451
01:27:43,159 --> 01:27:46,680
he's totally discredited if he says he guess what happened

1452
01:27:46,680 --> 01:27:48,479
to me, I was pro by aliens or something.

1453
01:27:49,680 --> 01:27:53,239
Speaker 2: And then I know or or or uh, you know

1454
01:27:53,359 --> 01:27:56,319
Dave mentions in one of the cases, uh kids that

1455
01:27:56,439 --> 01:27:59,840
were that were taking had been drugged as well.

1456
01:28:00,159 --> 01:28:00,560
Speaker 1: Mm hmm.

1457
01:28:01,319 --> 01:28:04,039
Speaker 2: And now if you're a child and you've been drugged

1458
01:28:04,079 --> 01:28:07,000
or given these crazy drugs, these really intense ones like

1459
01:28:07,159 --> 01:28:10,640
LSD or something, I mean, there's I think you would

1460
01:28:10,680 --> 01:28:14,319
absolutely dissociate. And imagine if the person who molested you,

1461
01:28:15,079 --> 01:28:17,239
I mean, they could be wearing a Mickey Mouse outfit,

1462
01:28:18,279 --> 01:28:20,680
and you know, you could be saying you were molested.

1463
01:28:20,760 --> 01:28:22,359
I'm not joking, by the way, you could be saying

1464
01:28:22,840 --> 01:28:25,840
I was molested by Mickey Mouse. I was molested by

1465
01:28:25,920 --> 01:28:28,199
somebody wearing an alien you know, I was mosted by aliens.

1466
01:28:28,279 --> 01:28:32,680
It was just some pervert and alien suit. Yeah, and

1467
01:28:32,840 --> 01:28:34,319
you have their immediate cover.

1468
01:28:36,760 --> 01:28:41,279
Speaker 1: Well, I mean using drugs to exploit people. I mean

1469
01:28:41,600 --> 01:28:46,880
George Hunter White right operations at midnight Climax, using prostitutes

1470
01:28:46,920 --> 01:28:49,960
to then film the Johns. And he's the one that

1471
01:28:50,079 --> 01:28:53,279
the famous quote that you know I you know I

1472
01:28:53,840 --> 01:28:57,000
what was that quote of his? I raped and murdered.

1473
01:28:57,439 --> 01:28:59,600
I did it all on the under the cover of

1474
01:28:59,600 --> 01:29:01,279
the American flag. Had a good time doing it.

1475
01:29:03,079 --> 01:29:03,199
Speaker 2: You know.

1476
01:29:03,439 --> 01:29:06,119
Speaker 1: This is a great quote from him talking about what

1477
01:29:06,239 --> 01:29:09,520
he got away with under the cover of national national security.

1478
01:29:10,119 --> 01:29:12,359
Speaker 2: Mm hmm. So it's was it.

1479
01:29:12,880 --> 01:29:15,800
Speaker 1: Yeah, they this was operation they did this operation of

1480
01:29:15,840 --> 01:29:19,560
midnight Climax that people drugged them and filled them having

1481
01:29:19,640 --> 01:29:23,079
sex with prostitutes and who knows what else I mean here, Yeah,

1482
01:29:23,159 --> 01:29:26,279
I was I was a very minor missionary, actually a heretic.

1483
01:29:26,399 --> 01:29:30,000
But I toiled wholeheartedly in the vineyards because it was fun, fun, fun,

1484
01:29:30,600 --> 01:29:33,720
Or else could a red blooded American boy lie killed, cheat, steel,

1485
01:29:33,840 --> 01:29:36,159
rape and pillage with the sanction the blessing of the

1486
01:29:36,239 --> 01:29:39,279
Hall of the All Highest. George Hunter White who was

1487
01:29:39,319 --> 01:29:42,119
a counter narcotics officer and also worked with the c

1488
01:29:42,279 --> 01:29:44,079
i A. It was part of the early stages Jim

1489
01:29:44,159 --> 01:29:47,640
Carlton operation Midnight Climax and that whole operation of Night Climax.

1490
01:29:47,920 --> 01:29:50,800
They this was a they had these safe houses or

1491
01:29:51,000 --> 01:29:52,000
in San Francisco.

1492
01:29:52,640 --> 01:29:54,760
Speaker 2: Well they just that they bought from the mom they

1493
01:29:54,880 --> 01:29:58,000
got it from the mob. Uh.

1494
01:29:58,239 --> 01:30:00,880
Speaker 1: And then you know the sor as the drugs they

1495
01:30:00,920 --> 01:30:06,159
went kind of with the Olsley Stanley and the Grateful

1496
01:30:06,239 --> 01:30:10,119
Dead was the marketing angle for that of spreading, you know,

1497
01:30:10,239 --> 01:30:13,279
seating the whole country with LSD, seeing what the reaction

1498
01:30:13,359 --> 01:30:16,039
would be, and the rock festivals, festivals themselves. It's a

1499
01:30:16,079 --> 01:30:19,479
money pop or woodstock And Dave mcgott made a point,

1500
01:30:19,520 --> 01:30:22,079
then sixty nine was interesting year because you had the

1501
01:30:22,159 --> 01:30:25,840
moon landing in July twentieth ninety sixty nine, you're the

1502
01:30:26,800 --> 01:30:29,800
woodstock in August nine, sixty nine, the Manson killings in

1503
01:30:30,319 --> 01:30:34,199
sixty nine. It's really all these and they're all syops,

1504
01:30:35,119 --> 01:30:36,760
you know, and you can see how they're all being

1505
01:30:36,800 --> 01:30:39,960
a related, how they react, how they would manipulate the

1506
01:30:40,000 --> 01:30:43,000
country's emotions one way or the other. I mean, it

1507
01:30:43,079 --> 01:30:46,279
really is amazing. And you see it from the broader picture, you.

1508
01:30:46,319 --> 01:30:49,840
Speaker 2: Know, Yeah, I mean, and it's it's very difficult to fathom.

1509
01:30:49,920 --> 01:30:51,840
But then I but but when you read you know,

1510
01:30:52,079 --> 01:30:54,920
secret societies and reprogram to kill you, you know, you

1511
01:30:55,000 --> 01:30:59,640
can really get a better picture of how not only

1512
01:30:59,720 --> 01:31:02,880
is it entirely possible, but that is, you know, the

1513
01:31:02,960 --> 01:31:04,600
most plausible explanation for all this.

1514
01:31:04,720 --> 01:31:09,000
Speaker 1: I would say, yeah, so well, Jay, listen, I want

1515
01:31:09,039 --> 01:31:10,960
to think I think anything else, I mean, you think

1516
01:31:11,000 --> 01:31:11,720
we covered it or.

1517
01:31:13,319 --> 01:31:17,760
Speaker 2: I would like to mention the h the last section

1518
01:31:19,680 --> 01:31:23,000
just because it's just so funny, bizarre and weird to me,

1519
01:31:23,119 --> 01:31:27,399
and I've never heard anybody else mention this. But just

1520
01:31:27,520 --> 01:31:32,920
the character of Jean Badell Bocassa, the puppet ye and

1521
01:31:33,840 --> 01:31:38,000
who claimed him proclaimed himself emperor in nineteen seventy seven

1522
01:31:38,680 --> 01:31:45,039
of Central African Republic, And what's weird about that? By

1523
01:31:45,079 --> 01:31:46,720
the way I went. I went after I read this,

1524
01:31:46,800 --> 01:31:48,600
I went and I watched a bunch of clips and

1525
01:31:48,680 --> 01:31:51,319
documentaries on this guy. I want this one a whack up.

1526
01:31:52,000 --> 01:31:56,119
But he liked to eat his people. He was victorious

1527
01:31:56,159 --> 01:31:59,880
over so he would eat his enemies. And then he

1528
01:32:00,000 --> 01:32:04,319
he fled to France. So a lot of funny the

1529
01:32:04,439 --> 01:32:06,439
Iatola did France too.

1530
01:32:06,760 --> 01:32:08,600
Speaker 1: Yeah, he't out in France too for a while. Yeah,

1531
01:32:10,159 --> 01:32:10,399
a while.

1532
01:32:10,640 --> 01:32:14,279
Speaker 2: A lot of people flee to France. But yeah, so

1533
01:32:14,840 --> 01:32:16,880
you know, we think of cannibalism and these kinds of

1534
01:32:16,960 --> 01:32:22,399
things as out of the realm of possibility, and nobody

1535
01:32:22,479 --> 01:32:26,920
does that. But yeah, I think that again. You get

1536
01:32:26,960 --> 01:32:31,680
people whacked out on drugs and they will eat people. Okay,

1537
01:32:32,000 --> 01:32:34,720
that's my concluding salvo there.

1538
01:32:35,199 --> 01:32:37,319
Speaker 1: Oh, there was one interesting case they might remember.

1539
01:32:37,439 --> 01:32:37,560
Speaker 2: Uh.

1540
01:32:37,920 --> 01:32:39,960
Speaker 1: One of the later serial killers of the nineties was

1541
01:32:40,000 --> 01:32:42,960
petering out. Was this character Joel Rifkin.

1542
01:32:44,760 --> 01:32:44,880
Speaker 2: Uh.

1543
01:32:45,680 --> 01:32:47,520
Speaker 1: You might remember him from the Seinfeld as a character

1544
01:32:47,560 --> 01:32:49,960
named Joe Wifton and Seinfeld is a joke. He shared

1545
01:32:49,960 --> 01:32:52,359
the name of a serial killer he carried killed a

1546
01:32:52,359 --> 01:32:54,119
bunch of processuts up in the New York area.

1547
01:32:55,000 --> 01:32:55,079
Speaker 2: Uh.

1548
01:32:55,399 --> 01:32:58,960
Speaker 1: Well, it turns out, yeah, he was an American Syrica

1549
01:32:59,079 --> 01:33:01,920
nineth ninety four to two and three two hundred and

1550
01:33:01,960 --> 01:33:04,800
three years in prison for murder murders of nine women

1551
01:33:04,880 --> 01:33:07,680
between nineteen eighty nine and nineteen ninety three. He is

1552
01:33:07,720 --> 01:33:10,279
believed to have killed seventeen victims between ninety nine nineteen

1553
01:33:10,319 --> 01:33:12,319
ninety three. New York City and the Long Island, New

1554
01:33:12,399 --> 01:33:16,640
York area. Well, it's interesting is Rifkin often hired prostitutes

1555
01:33:16,640 --> 01:33:18,520
in Brooklyn and Manhattan. He lived in East Meadow, a

1556
01:33:18,560 --> 01:33:22,640
suburban town on Long Island. He was a landscaper for

1557
01:33:23,239 --> 01:33:24,439
William Casey's widow.

1558
01:33:25,760 --> 01:33:28,560
Speaker 2: Yes, okay, yeah, somebody somebody brought that up the other

1559
01:33:28,640 --> 01:33:32,039
day on a YouTube video I did. Yeah. And also,

1560
01:33:32,159 --> 01:33:37,359
don't forget Dahmer hanging out with no excuse me John

1561
01:33:37,399 --> 01:33:41,760
Wayne Gacy. Well, Dahmer was able to get his high

1562
01:33:41,760 --> 01:33:47,039
school class like the VIP tour of the Vice President's office,

1563
01:33:47,319 --> 01:33:49,840
and then he was going to be an up and

1564
01:33:50,119 --> 01:33:53,399
up and coming GOP guy. And then it was John WAYE.

1565
01:33:53,399 --> 01:33:59,680
Gacy hanging out meeting Jimmy Carter's wife.

1566
01:34:00,479 --> 01:34:05,039
Speaker 1: That's right, just after having a conviction for child lasstation.

1567
01:34:05,359 --> 01:34:08,239
He was already convicted sex offender, and he got the

1568
01:34:08,359 --> 01:34:12,199
so he got the secret Service button, which usually means

1569
01:34:12,199 --> 01:34:17,119
they're vetted, so which is even more inexplicable. That's just

1570
01:34:17,960 --> 01:34:20,840
you know, I mean even more in expled what's interesting.

1571
01:34:20,880 --> 01:34:22,640
And you mentioned he got the Dahmer got the tour

1572
01:34:22,680 --> 01:34:24,800
of Walter Monder's office. I think it was nineteen seventy

1573
01:34:24,840 --> 01:34:27,760
seven to nineteen seventy eight. Yeah, this may not have

1574
01:34:28,279 --> 01:34:32,279
may not be connected at all, but if I recall

1575
01:34:32,399 --> 01:34:37,840
my research, Walter Mondale sponsored a law, a federal law

1576
01:34:38,640 --> 01:34:45,640
which gave bonuses for child Protective Service personnel when they

1577
01:34:45,720 --> 01:34:49,960
get kids that are taken out of homes for abuse

1578
01:34:50,079 --> 01:34:55,279
reasons supposedly, uh, and get him adopted. It's a federal law.

1579
01:34:55,279 --> 01:35:00,159
Forget the name of the law itself. Okay, there is

1580
01:35:00,199 --> 01:35:02,640
Georgia State senator I think it was was a Deborah

1581
01:35:02,720 --> 01:35:06,880
Schaeffer who was exposed in the corruption and child Protective

1582
01:35:06,880 --> 01:35:10,039
Service as there was a yes, remember a child trafficking ring.

1583
01:35:10,199 --> 01:35:13,039
And part of the incentive for these agents that the

1584
01:35:13,119 --> 01:35:15,600
child pictures was that federal law. They get like a

1585
01:35:15,800 --> 01:35:19,239
five thousand dollars cash bonus. Each kid is removed from

1586
01:35:20,159 --> 01:35:23,279
who that has adopted from foster care, which means that

1587
01:35:23,399 --> 01:35:25,000
kid first has to be removed from a family and

1588
01:35:25,039 --> 01:35:27,479
put in the foster care. And she said there was

1589
01:35:27,520 --> 01:35:29,960
a child trafficking ring being operated under the cover of

1590
01:35:30,439 --> 01:35:34,079
that of that service largely funded by the federal law.

1591
01:35:34,359 --> 01:35:36,680
Walter Monduls, the Senator, was a sponsor of that of

1592
01:35:36,800 --> 01:35:39,640
that bill. Wow, Okay, I don't know if that's connected

1593
01:35:39,680 --> 01:35:41,399
at all to it, but it's interesting.

1594
01:35:41,039 --> 01:35:43,279
Speaker 2: To well, it makes sense. But hey, I have a

1595
01:35:43,319 --> 01:35:43,840
couple of questions.

1596
01:35:43,840 --> 01:35:46,920
Speaker 1: And of course, Jeffrey Dahmer right going, who was involved

1597
01:35:46,960 --> 01:35:49,239
in child sex, rape, murder and all that stuff.

1598
01:35:49,239 --> 01:35:53,920
Speaker 2: You know, so, well, what you think about Dave's book.

1599
01:35:53,960 --> 01:35:57,800
Do you agree with the thesis that a lot of

1600
01:35:57,880 --> 01:36:01,199
the serial killer stuff is hyped up? I mean, I

1601
01:36:01,399 --> 01:36:06,920
think that you know, there are contract hits, and there

1602
01:36:06,960 --> 01:36:10,119
are these drug gangs, and there is m S thirteen.

1603
01:36:10,319 --> 01:36:12,880
That's a real thing. But I mean, do you think

1604
01:36:13,000 --> 01:36:17,239
that do you think do you think the Damer thing,

1605
01:36:17,359 --> 01:36:21,239
for example, was exaggerated or do you think that it

1606
01:36:21,399 --> 01:36:24,239
was you know, the way they told it.

1607
01:36:25,520 --> 01:36:26,279
Speaker 1: That's interesting.

1608
01:36:26,800 --> 01:36:29,399
Speaker 2: You think he had, you know, bodies in the freezer

1609
01:36:29,479 --> 01:36:29,840
and stuff.

1610
01:36:31,880 --> 01:36:34,920
Speaker 1: I see no reason. I see no reason to implicitly

1611
01:36:34,960 --> 01:36:38,520
trust with the news we reported about that that could

1612
01:36:38,520 --> 01:36:41,760
all be bs right, and the idea again that gets

1613
01:36:41,760 --> 01:36:45,039
into the whole reason why that gets to the Mica

1614
01:36:45,119 --> 01:36:49,279
Hoffman's thesis. These these people may not be as spectaculars

1615
01:36:49,560 --> 01:36:53,159
as they think they're there aspect spectaculing the way that

1616
01:36:53,319 --> 01:36:57,760
is gruesome as we're told, because again we're dealing with

1617
01:36:57,960 --> 01:37:02,039
the media which hesitant sensationalism and of its in and

1618
01:37:02,119 --> 01:37:04,680
of itself. But we'll get into what Michael Hoffin says

1619
01:37:04,680 --> 01:37:07,840
about the we're all seeing the pews of the electronic media,

1620
01:37:08,399 --> 01:37:10,600
and we're all taking this in and just to reporting

1621
01:37:10,680 --> 01:37:15,159
us as gruesomeness, gruesomenessness, a gruesomeness, what's the word, the

1622
01:37:15,239 --> 01:37:18,680
gruesome details is going to have that very effect on us,

1623
01:37:19,840 --> 01:37:22,079
you know this, we'll talk about it, and has that

1624
01:37:22,159 --> 01:37:26,520
effect that's sort of a degrading of society in general.

1625
01:37:27,279 --> 01:37:30,439
Speaker 2: So what would you say, like in Henry Lucas case,

1626
01:37:30,520 --> 01:37:32,720
what do you think is the most we think is

1627
01:37:32,800 --> 01:37:34,840
most likely that went down that they just kind of

1628
01:37:35,560 --> 01:37:37,720
grouped a whole bunch of unsolved ones.

1629
01:37:38,720 --> 01:37:40,840
Speaker 1: I don't see one man, you know, being guilty, you know,

1630
01:37:42,319 --> 01:37:45,359
being a bit'll pull off hundreds of murders without he

1631
01:37:45,680 --> 01:37:48,840
himself getting killed at some point. It's not easy to

1632
01:37:48,920 --> 01:37:51,359
kill people. I mean it's right, I mean, you can

1633
01:37:51,399 --> 01:37:53,439
get away with a few times, but killing a human

1634
01:37:53,520 --> 01:37:56,239
being is difficult. Human being fights back, so it has

1635
01:37:56,359 --> 01:37:58,239
to be I mean a group of people. I mean

1636
01:37:58,319 --> 01:37:59,520
a trained killer can do it.

1637
01:37:59,560 --> 01:38:00,479
Speaker 2: I guess right.

1638
01:38:01,560 --> 01:38:03,359
Speaker 1: Uh. But you know again, I think I think that

1639
01:38:03,520 --> 01:38:05,439
that's kind of uh. I think Henry Lucas there was

1640
01:38:05,479 --> 01:38:07,479
there to close a lot of again, to close the books.

1641
01:38:08,079 --> 01:38:10,199
One thing that David mcgot didn't include in the books

1642
01:38:10,199 --> 01:38:13,439
that Kurd afterwards was the the d C sniper case.

1643
01:38:13,640 --> 01:38:18,000
Speaker 2: John Muhammad is bt K after the book too.

1644
01:38:18,199 --> 01:38:20,119
Speaker 1: Yeah, after the book as well, he talks about it

1645
01:38:20,319 --> 01:38:24,079
because the interview, Yeah, yeah, in the interview, but the

1646
01:38:25,039 --> 01:38:27,199
I was I'm in the area where the d C

1647
01:38:27,279 --> 01:38:30,319
sniper was. In fact, that there's a lady killed just

1648
01:38:30,359 --> 01:38:33,199
down the street from my brother's house right now.

1649
01:38:33,439 --> 01:38:37,039
Speaker 2: There were news stories that he that he left the

1650
01:38:37,079 --> 01:38:39,479
death card, which is the Special Forces card.

1651
01:38:40,479 --> 01:38:43,520
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I remember that. And then also the fact

1652
01:38:43,560 --> 01:38:49,199
that the police chief Ountain, Moncolm mc County Moose, apparently

1653
01:38:49,520 --> 01:38:51,880
was at the same base as John Allen muhammed out

1654
01:38:51,880 --> 01:38:54,920
in Oregon. And that's it's weird. Remember that weird message

1655
01:38:55,000 --> 01:38:58,039
he left for him, that cryptic messages and on the

1656
01:38:58,119 --> 01:39:00,680
phone he called these comes out on to the police station.

1657
01:39:01,239 --> 01:39:04,199
Weird leaves us. It was almost like it's triggering And

1658
01:39:04,279 --> 01:39:07,520
the next day I think he's caught in the sleeping

1659
01:39:07,560 --> 01:39:08,359
in the car or something.

1660
01:39:09,119 --> 01:39:14,600
Speaker 2: Right, Yeah, yeah, Oh was there ever a reasoning for

1661
01:39:14,760 --> 01:39:15,640
why he was doing that.

1662
01:39:16,479 --> 01:39:19,880
Speaker 1: They concocted some sort of idea where he was going out,

1663
01:39:19,920 --> 01:39:22,239
he was gonna go after his wife and then create

1664
01:39:22,279 --> 01:39:23,960
a bunch of murders to cover it up, which goes

1665
01:39:24,000 --> 01:39:28,760
in that haystacking uh thesis. But they think he again

1666
01:39:28,920 --> 01:39:31,720
the media went and said, well, you know, they're probably

1667
01:39:31,800 --> 01:39:34,680
responsible for these murders too. Actually did that? They shore

1668
01:39:34,720 --> 01:39:37,199
like all these different murders and different states. How John

1669
01:39:37,279 --> 01:39:39,439
Allen Hamma is probably responsi for those murders as well.

1670
01:39:40,079 --> 01:39:43,560
But he he himself had unexplained income. He traveled, kids,

1671
01:39:43,600 --> 01:39:45,600
went to private school, he went on ski trips, went

1672
01:39:45,640 --> 01:39:48,359
to the went to the went to the Caribbean several times.

1673
01:39:49,159 --> 01:39:50,319
Speaker 2: Oh, he was probably a contract.

1674
01:39:51,039 --> 01:39:53,760
Speaker 1: Yeah, so that's what it sounds like. Uh and uh,

1675
01:39:54,159 --> 01:39:56,079
it's you know, given the time that happened, it was

1676
01:39:56,119 --> 01:39:58,359
the fall of two thousand and two, a year after

1677
01:39:58,439 --> 01:40:02,039
nine to eleven, and I remember the time thinking what

1678
01:40:02,159 --> 01:40:05,119
the heck's going on? And these weird things were Actually

1679
01:40:05,880 --> 01:40:09,880
they actually said that look for a white panel van.

1680
01:40:10,920 --> 01:40:11,640
Speaker 2: Yeah, I remember that.

1681
01:40:12,159 --> 01:40:16,600
Speaker 1: Now. If you drive on the highways around here, I

1682
01:40:16,680 --> 01:40:20,680
think every tenth car is a white panel van. What's

1683
01:40:20,760 --> 01:40:21,119
the I mean.

1684
01:40:21,640 --> 01:40:23,239
Speaker 2: So that just makes everybody freak.

1685
01:40:23,039 --> 01:40:25,800
Speaker 1: Out, freak out, Yeah, And so that gets in this

1686
01:40:25,880 --> 01:40:28,199
whole idea of you know, holdings to the serial killers.

1687
01:40:28,319 --> 01:40:31,439
I remember joking at the time it was like getting

1688
01:40:31,479 --> 01:40:34,439
gasoline pulling people like ducking make my wife go out

1689
01:40:34,439 --> 01:40:38,680
and pump the gas. Hey, honey, can you get at

1690
01:40:38,680 --> 01:40:39,039
this time?

1691
01:40:41,199 --> 01:40:41,399
Speaker 2: Yeah?

1692
01:40:41,880 --> 01:40:42,560
Speaker 1: I want to live.

1693
01:40:43,600 --> 01:40:48,319
Speaker 2: And it's just as kind of silly as the terrorist story, right, because.

1694
01:40:48,359 --> 01:40:51,279
Speaker 1: You your chances of being a victim ian more likely

1695
01:40:51,359 --> 01:40:53,520
getting hit by a car or getting in a car accident.

1696
01:40:53,560 --> 01:40:56,760
We're getting sniped. But again it's the psychological effect. And

1697
01:40:56,840 --> 01:40:58,800
of course within those killings was this one lady I

1698
01:40:58,800 --> 01:41:02,800
think her name is Barbara Franklynn was an FBI agent

1699
01:41:03,399 --> 01:41:06,279
who was involved in the weapons and mass destruction cover

1700
01:41:06,399 --> 01:41:10,000
up or something okay, and she was gunned down outside

1701
01:41:10,000 --> 01:41:13,800
of home depot so that's an interesting case there. But

1702
01:41:14,199 --> 01:41:15,680
again it's one of the other things. If you look

1703
01:41:15,680 --> 01:41:17,319
at all these serial killers, the idea of you being

1704
01:41:17,359 --> 01:41:20,760
killed by a serial killer, the odds, oh really you better,

1705
01:41:20,840 --> 01:41:23,800
you more more likely get struck by lightning. And but

1706
01:41:24,079 --> 01:41:28,439
again the psychological effect. I think David Berkerwitz, the Son

1707
01:41:28,520 --> 01:41:32,279
of Sam, even the official narrative six six eight victims,

1708
01:41:32,319 --> 01:41:35,960
six fatalities and how many how many homicides are there

1709
01:41:36,000 --> 01:41:37,560
are there in New York City every year?

1710
01:41:37,840 --> 01:41:40,239
Speaker 2: Yeah? Exactly. Another thing too. I remember I was reading

1711
01:41:41,359 --> 01:41:45,479
some of the pop stuff, like Psychology Today articles a

1712
01:41:45,520 --> 01:41:49,319
few years ago about quote serial killers, and you know,

1713
01:41:49,479 --> 01:41:52,520
it's it's a very pc and it's like the serial

1714
01:41:52,640 --> 01:41:55,880
killers of middle aged white male who wears the the

1715
01:41:56,399 --> 01:41:59,880
wire rim glasses and he's yeah, yeah, very very neat,

1716
01:42:00,119 --> 01:42:01,840
tucks his shirt in and all this kind of stuff.

1717
01:42:02,359 --> 01:42:05,159
And I'm sitting here thinking, well, actually, you can go

1718
01:42:06,319 --> 01:42:09,279
look it up. Just the mainstream story. At least, there's

1719
01:42:09,399 --> 01:42:13,600
quite a few female serial killers that are never talked about,

1720
01:42:13,760 --> 01:42:17,920
but there are they do exist. There are also black

1721
01:42:18,000 --> 01:42:20,800
guys who were serial killers that are not talked about.

1722
01:42:21,319 --> 01:42:24,840
So actually that the I would say that the there

1723
01:42:24,880 --> 01:42:30,000
are you know Latino killers who are pretty vicious, especially

1724
01:42:30,159 --> 01:42:33,720
MS thirteen gang types. So the idea that this is

1725
01:42:33,800 --> 01:42:36,600
like the white male, middle aged white male is the

1726
01:42:36,680 --> 01:42:40,600
serial killer is pretty ludicrous. And I also tend to

1727
01:42:40,720 --> 01:42:44,279
argue too that I think women who have no compunction

1728
01:42:44,920 --> 01:42:47,560
and have had, you know, five abortions, I don't see

1729
01:42:47,600 --> 01:42:48,920
why that's not a serial killer either.

1730
01:42:49,199 --> 01:42:53,000
Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, well that goes back to what the Dave

1731
01:42:53,119 --> 01:42:55,920
McGowan said about the whole idea of by profiling that's

1732
01:42:56,000 --> 01:43:00,239
there to mislead the public about what the serial killer is. Thing.

1733
01:43:00,560 --> 01:43:03,239
There's aren't these organic guys that go out and you know,

1734
01:43:03,279 --> 01:43:05,600
they have this obsession and they're you know, like in

1735
01:43:06,159 --> 01:43:09,479
Slians of the Lambs, was going after like something, yeah,

1736
01:43:09,560 --> 01:43:12,239
like Cladish.

1737
01:43:12,319 --> 01:43:15,479
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's hunting down you know, doctor lector. Yeah. Right.

1738
01:43:15,800 --> 01:43:17,880
Speaker 1: The myth is they're they're actually on a mission, and

1739
01:43:18,159 --> 01:43:20,000
the same way in Phoenix, where yeah, they're doing a

1740
01:43:20,039 --> 01:43:22,439
lot of killing, but there's a reason for it and

1741
01:43:22,560 --> 01:43:25,319
they may they may just they may enjoy it like

1742
01:43:25,399 --> 01:43:29,920
in Phoenix. Uh, but there's they're they're they have controllers

1743
01:43:30,399 --> 01:43:32,159
and the same thing you talk about these M S

1744
01:43:32,239 --> 01:43:36,439
thirteen guys. Uh where Yeah, there's a cult element to it,

1745
01:43:37,319 --> 01:43:39,640
because that's how you organize. Hey, that's how you motivate

1746
01:43:39,680 --> 01:43:45,000
and motivate and control people. But they have handles there,

1747
01:43:45,039 --> 01:43:48,119
and they're they're murdering for a reason, right, They're murdering,

1748
01:43:48,279 --> 01:43:50,760
murdering for a reason. A lot of the black crime

1749
01:43:50,760 --> 01:43:54,119
they're staring black crime rates in the nineteen sixties. At

1750
01:43:54,199 --> 01:43:56,479
first glance, that may have appeared to be you know,

1751
01:43:58,239 --> 01:44:03,279
disorganized or or sporadic, but it turns out that a

1752
01:44:03,319 --> 01:44:06,199
lot of these these gang black gangs were being funded

1753
01:44:06,279 --> 01:44:09,800
by the by the federal government through the community Black grants.

1754
01:44:09,880 --> 01:44:14,119
And I believe it was revealed in the Church Committee

1755
01:44:14,119 --> 01:44:18,520
hearings in the nineteen seventies that Sergeant Schreiver, when he

1756
01:44:18,640 --> 01:44:24,079
ran the the Office of econ Economic Opportunity uh gave

1757
01:44:24,119 --> 01:44:26,359
a close to a million dollars to this group called

1758
01:44:26,359 --> 01:44:29,720
the black Stone Rangers, a criminal gang in Chicago, I think.

1759
01:44:30,119 --> 01:44:32,680
And what the function of those groups was to more

1760
01:44:32,760 --> 01:44:35,199
or less just to go out create mayhem, create create

1761
01:44:35,199 --> 01:44:38,319
a lot of crime, to chase out the whites. And

1762
01:44:38,439 --> 01:44:41,399
this is all part of this program to destroy the

1763
01:44:41,600 --> 01:44:45,720
ethnic neighborhoods, the white ethnic neighborhoods. And encouraged the creation

1764
01:44:45,960 --> 01:44:51,800
the diaspor into them into suburbia. So this is all

1765
01:44:51,840 --> 01:44:54,119
part of a sort of a strategy tension and destabilization.

1766
01:44:56,159 --> 01:44:59,159
You mentioned that movie Circario, right, I mean, that's with

1767
01:44:59,279 --> 01:45:04,159
that James Brow character. He tells the lady FBI agent

1768
01:45:04,600 --> 01:45:06,840
that they're just down there, you know, you know, shaking

1769
01:45:06,880 --> 01:45:09,640
some treaties during trouble to see what happens. Of course,

1770
01:45:09,680 --> 01:45:11,600
what that really means on the ground is they're going

1771
01:45:11,640 --> 01:45:14,760
in there creating shootouts on the streets, making life a

1772
01:45:14,800 --> 01:45:17,920
living hell for the inhabitants down there in Mexico. And

1773
01:45:18,000 --> 01:45:20,159
you know, in your war as they could care less.

1774
01:45:20,920 --> 01:45:21,079
Speaker 2: You know.

1775
01:45:22,920 --> 01:45:26,600
Speaker 1: That's the same way that perhaps criminal activities such as

1776
01:45:26,640 --> 01:45:30,600
drug drug dealing, importation drugs in the certain neighborhoods in

1777
01:45:30,600 --> 01:45:32,640
the United States, it could be all part of a

1778
01:45:33,239 --> 01:45:34,680
sort of a gentrification program.

1779
01:45:34,880 --> 01:45:35,000
Speaker 2: You know.

1780
01:45:35,079 --> 01:45:37,439
Speaker 1: That's twenty years in the offense.

1781
01:45:37,760 --> 01:45:38,800
Speaker 2: Right, Yeah, that's kind of what.

1782
01:45:41,720 --> 01:45:45,760
Speaker 1: And it's the same thing with uh And that was

1783
01:45:45,800 --> 01:45:47,399
I mean that one of my points that this was

1784
01:45:47,600 --> 01:45:52,279
this was this type of strategy was was documented and

1785
01:45:52,319 --> 01:45:54,760
improven in the sixties with the Black student Rangers. You've

1786
01:45:54,800 --> 01:45:58,239
mentioned how the the the Black Panthers.

1787
01:45:58,279 --> 01:46:01,680
Speaker 2: Were radicalized and Richard Aoki.

1788
01:46:01,800 --> 01:46:04,000
Speaker 1: Yeah, and then taken out when they murdered Freddie Hampton

1789
01:46:04,039 --> 01:46:07,119
because they got out of control. They've they've done their job,

1790
01:46:07,199 --> 01:46:09,319
the shelf off had expired, and then they take them out.

1791
01:46:09,399 --> 01:46:11,760
And when they're taken out, they're used as propaganda for

1792
01:46:11,800 --> 01:46:12,439
the police state.

1793
01:46:13,159 --> 01:46:13,560
Speaker 2: Exactly.

1794
01:46:13,840 --> 01:46:16,439
Speaker 1: In the nineteen seventies you had the Simils Liberation Army, right,

1795
01:46:16,479 --> 01:46:19,720
which grew out of Vaucaville and Colton Westbrook, and.

1796
01:46:19,920 --> 01:46:24,039
Speaker 2: And that that with Charles Whittmore leads to the creation

1797
01:46:24,119 --> 01:46:26,840
of the swat team and federalization of local police.

1798
01:46:27,279 --> 01:46:29,399
Speaker 1: The police force. Say that whole shootout, which seems which

1799
01:46:29,479 --> 01:46:34,119
is probably staged. There's some question about Weatherman right, about

1800
01:46:34,159 --> 01:46:36,560
the growing out of rests and why Billy Aires was

1801
01:46:36,600 --> 01:46:38,560
never read. You know what guilty as hell for as

1802
01:46:38,560 --> 01:46:42,159
a bird was this quote? Yeah, you know the government

1803
01:46:42,319 --> 01:46:45,000
you know, technicality, we can't convict him. And that's a

1804
01:46:45,039 --> 01:46:47,479
statement of course. He's he's lived a charmed.

1805
01:46:47,239 --> 01:46:53,279
Speaker 2: Existence, right, with a whole bunch of foundation funding his stuff.

1806
01:46:53,359 --> 01:46:59,880
Speaker 1: So yeah, So I mean, the the silly killer these

1807
01:47:00,079 --> 01:47:02,760
this fits right into this. It's the all destabilization and

1808
01:47:02,840 --> 01:47:09,960
then psychological warfare bundled in with maybe targeted killings and

1809
01:47:10,439 --> 01:47:16,760
drug running and you know, it's, uh, it's what they do.

1810
01:47:19,640 --> 01:47:21,960
Part of understanding this, I think is is probably it

1811
01:47:22,039 --> 01:47:25,640
goes back to maybe go back to maybe Doug Valentine's

1812
01:47:25,640 --> 01:47:27,399
book in the Phoenix Program and thinking how would that

1813
01:47:27,439 --> 01:47:30,720
be applied domestically And that's just how it would be

1814
01:47:30,760 --> 01:47:35,800
applied domestically here, and how it's an influenced domestic policy

1815
01:47:35,840 --> 01:47:38,840
with the Department of Homeland Security, the Fusion centers, the

1816
01:47:39,119 --> 01:47:43,760
idea of you know, manipulating the media these things. How again,

1817
01:47:43,800 --> 01:47:46,600
how it's then how it's projected through these movies, through

1818
01:47:46,640 --> 01:47:49,960
electronic media and promoted. And your your question of regarding

1819
01:47:50,359 --> 01:47:52,600
or some of these stories exagger the groos, you know,

1820
01:47:52,640 --> 01:47:55,960
the gruesome details. Are they presented as you know? Yeah,

1821
01:47:56,000 --> 01:47:57,880
you're right. I mean there's no reason even to you know,

1822
01:47:58,399 --> 01:48:01,159
you know, to assume that that's even correct. It's just

1823
01:48:01,279 --> 01:48:04,760
it just goes it's for our consumption, you know, good.

1824
01:48:04,720 --> 01:48:07,680
Speaker 2: Right, Yeah, Yeah, It's it's very Hollywood, isn't it.

1825
01:48:08,880 --> 01:48:10,560
Speaker 1: And it's like that, and it's like you know, like

1826
01:48:10,920 --> 01:48:14,000
the Serira killar area with the heads propped up, I

1827
01:48:14,119 --> 01:48:15,039
have to buy the dining.

1828
01:48:14,840 --> 01:48:18,840
Speaker 2: Room at the end of seven where yeah, you know,

1829
01:48:19,079 --> 01:48:22,239
who is it, Brad Brad Pitt sees his girlfriend's head

1830
01:48:22,359 --> 01:48:22,640
or something.

1831
01:48:22,720 --> 01:48:26,319
Speaker 1: Yeah, decapitated wife's head or decapitated air right, yeah, in

1832
01:48:26,439 --> 01:48:29,359
the in the box there and all that. So yeah,

1833
01:48:29,640 --> 01:48:31,880
so well let's say, yeah, well, yeah, it was a

1834
01:48:31,920 --> 01:48:35,039
great talk. Yeah, I enjoyed it. I mean, your analysis

1835
01:48:35,279 --> 01:48:38,079
was a good program to kill. Is there anything else?

1836
01:48:39,800 --> 01:48:43,159
Speaker 2: No, I think that that's good. I mean there could

1837
01:48:43,159 --> 01:48:46,159
be a whole probably, yeah, there could be a whole

1838
01:48:46,199 --> 01:48:49,920
separate discussion of the secret societies and psychological warfare. But yeah,

1839
01:48:50,319 --> 01:48:51,560
both of the books dubtail.

1840
01:48:51,600 --> 01:48:55,680
Speaker 1: Well again, the serial killer phenomenon tends to the coincide

1841
01:48:56,000 --> 01:48:58,720
with a psychological warfare. The post war era sort of

1842
01:48:58,800 --> 01:49:02,319
a well, the Vietnam more, the economic problems, the trauma,

1843
01:49:02,479 --> 01:49:07,079
societal of destabilization. The whole thing was sizon to be

1844
01:49:07,159 --> 01:49:11,199
turning upside down. And yeah, the old rules didn't apply anymore.

1845
01:49:11,279 --> 01:49:14,119
Families were breaking up in the hot you know, increasing

1846
01:49:14,159 --> 01:49:18,359
divorce rate, the yeah, all this stuff, Uh, it's all

1847
01:49:18,439 --> 01:49:19,920
part of it. It was all part of it. And

1848
01:49:20,119 --> 01:49:22,640
see it in the in that context, and.

1849
01:49:22,680 --> 01:49:24,239
Speaker 2: I think it's important to point out too, that it

1850
01:49:24,319 --> 01:49:28,880
seems to be consistent phase, logical phases and steps. So,

1851
01:49:29,880 --> 01:49:32,199
like I was saying at the beginning, and the pop culture,

1852
01:49:32,279 --> 01:49:36,880
you get business plans or phases or steps of what's

1853
01:49:36,960 --> 01:49:40,560
considered revolution and counter establishment. You know, back then it

1854
01:49:40,720 --> 01:49:44,680
was smoking dope and listening to the doors and sleeping

1855
01:49:44,720 --> 01:49:50,840
around free love. Now it's fight the establishment patriarchy's genders

1856
01:49:51,119 --> 01:49:54,800
that they've imposed on you. Yeah, that's the phases of

1857
01:49:54,880 --> 01:49:56,760
the degradation, and.

1858
01:49:56,800 --> 01:49:59,680
Speaker 1: You couldn't get yeah, I'm sorry, as well.

1859
01:49:59,600 --> 01:50:03,920
Speaker 2: As passing from Oh, the sixties are a revolution against

1860
01:50:04,720 --> 01:50:07,800
you know, the nineteen forties and fifties corporate man and

1861
01:50:08,520 --> 01:50:10,680
the you know, the company man, and we're going to

1862
01:50:10,720 --> 01:50:12,239
be free from all that, and we're going to be

1863
01:50:12,279 --> 01:50:17,039
anti war. And then it becomes the serial killer phase, right,

1864
01:50:17,119 --> 01:50:19,319
and then it becomes the war on terror phase. Right,

1865
01:50:19,399 --> 01:50:22,479
So there's there's no more serial killers, but there's all

1866
01:50:22,520 --> 01:50:23,399
the terrorists everywhere.

1867
01:50:23,880 --> 01:50:27,039
Speaker 1: And then there's also the health, the health scares like

1868
01:50:27,319 --> 01:50:28,960
the AIDS crisis, AIDS hysteria.

1869
01:50:29,000 --> 01:50:30,960
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, that's a great one, which is mentioned as

1870
01:50:31,000 --> 01:50:32,680
an actual psychological war preparation.

1871
01:50:33,039 --> 01:50:36,560
Speaker 1: Yes, yeah, for that very purpose to further the great society,

1872
01:50:36,680 --> 01:50:39,119
the hyper sexualized society, which is a big part of this,

1873
01:50:39,239 --> 01:50:41,680
by the way, because the hyper sexualization you get the

1874
01:50:41,920 --> 01:50:45,039
uh well, you get the violence, you get the serial killer.

1875
01:50:45,439 --> 01:50:47,479
Sexual sex is a big thing with the serial killer.

1876
01:50:48,640 --> 01:50:51,439
Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, a sex deaf cult is a good way

1877
01:50:51,479 --> 01:50:51,920
to put it in.

1878
01:50:52,680 --> 01:50:55,000
Speaker 1: And it's funny how you remove sex from procreation, you

1879
01:50:55,039 --> 01:50:56,239
immediately start.

1880
01:50:56,039 --> 01:51:01,119
Speaker 2: To use it becomes connected to death. Death, yeah right,

1881
01:51:01,199 --> 01:51:05,039
the les petite more the little death. Yeah, as the

1882
01:51:05,159 --> 01:51:06,920
French term for organizasms.

1883
01:51:08,319 --> 01:51:12,359
Speaker 1: That's interesting. Wow, I didn't know that. Well, okay, well, Jake, listen,

1884
01:51:12,439 --> 01:51:13,800
I kept you a long time on to thank you.

1885
01:51:13,840 --> 01:51:15,680
I know you've been very busy lady, and you've been

1886
01:51:15,800 --> 01:51:18,000
very generous with your time. I'm really appreciated it. Thank you,

1887
01:51:18,640 --> 01:51:21,159
thank you, And you'll be headed out soon back to

1888
01:51:21,239 --> 01:51:22,800
do some more filming. So I wish you, wish you

1889
01:51:22,880 --> 01:51:27,279
safe travels. Appreciate that, and uh we'll talk later on

1890
01:51:27,479 --> 01:51:29,920
maybe you're uh later in the spring, early in the summer.

1891
01:51:29,960 --> 01:51:31,000
See whatever comes up.