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<v Speaker 1>It's Night Side with Dan Ray. I'm WBZ Coustin's me video.

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<v Speaker 2>Today the papal conclave is underway. It's actually our tomorrow.

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<v Speaker 2>It's Thursday morning in Rome. They're about six hours ahead

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<v Speaker 2>of us. And at some point that conclave will be

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<v Speaker 2>renewed today. And there was one indication that there was

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<v Speaker 2>some sort of a vote taken inside the Sistine Chapel,

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<v Speaker 2>but the requisite two thirds vote for one of the

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<v Speaker 2>cardinals in the room was not achieved, and so therefore

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<v Speaker 2>the smoke that showed was black smoking, not white smoke.

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<v Speaker 2>And with us now to talk about all things Catholic

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<v Speaker 2>and all things papal. Conclavish is a friend of many years,

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<v Speaker 2>Professor Thomas Groom. He teaches at Boston College. Tom Groom,

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<v Speaker 2>Professor Groom, Groom, welcome back to Nightside. How are you?

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<v Speaker 3>Oh? Thank you Dad, And only for an old friend

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<v Speaker 3>like yourself, so I'd stay up this late and I

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<v Speaker 3>sat on a Wednesday night. Well, I'm delighted, I'm deli

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<v Speaker 3>to join you and blessing.

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<v Speaker 2>Well, thank you, thank you, thank you. This has got

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<v Speaker 2>to be a very interesting time in our lifetimes. We're

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<v Speaker 2>not that far apart in age. There have been a

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<v Speaker 2>few fewer popes than presidents. There's no two term limit

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<v Speaker 2>on popes. Uh, no, no eight year limit, I should say,

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<v Speaker 2>uh and uh, we're about now to have the next

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<v Speaker 2>pope of our lifetime, and it's going to be certainly

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<v Speaker 2>an interesting process. I was listening to some reports today.

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<v Speaker 2>I Uh, I did realize that they were back in

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<v Speaker 2>the in the bad old days, and we're talking I

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<v Speaker 2>guess in the eleventh century. Uh, they did what is

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<v Speaker 2>the the forerunner of a paper conclave, and it took

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<v Speaker 2>three years before they could come up.

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<v Speaker 3>With yes, that's right with the winner, and they eventually

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<v Speaker 3>then they eventually had to lock them up and give

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<v Speaker 3>them only bread and water, And that was the only

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<v Speaker 3>way that they finally came to a decision. The local

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<v Speaker 3>people were so sick and tired of them sponging on

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<v Speaker 3>them that they eventually they locked the doors and they

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<v Speaker 3>gave them bread and water, and they came to a decision.

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<v Speaker 3>But it did take about three years. I don't think

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<v Speaker 3>we're will do that this time here. But actually, when

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<v Speaker 3>you look at the conditions that they're living in, you

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<v Speaker 3>realize that these are cardinals of the church. Meanwhile, they're

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<v Speaker 3>they're sleeping in little beds that looked more like you know,

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<v Speaker 3>weekend bunks on the for the scouts or something, you know,

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<v Speaker 3>So they're pretty humble quarters. So I think they'll move

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<v Speaker 3>along and come to a decision probably the next it'll

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<v Speaker 3>take two or three days. They very I think, from

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<v Speaker 3>what i've know, what we've heard before, very often the

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<v Speaker 3>opening the opening votes are are kind of window dressing,

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<v Speaker 3>you know. The people vote for each other and then

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<v Speaker 3>to pay compliments to them, you know, then they can

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<v Speaker 3>when they leave they say, well I got two votes

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<v Speaker 3>to be pope, you know. But there's a lot of that.

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<v Speaker 3>But I think eventually then the third or fourth day,

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<v Speaker 3>they'll settle down. But I think it will take three

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<v Speaker 3>or four days.

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<v Speaker 2>So let's talk. First of all, I have to ask you,

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<v Speaker 2>I'm sure you must have seen the movie Conclave.

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<v Speaker 3>Yes, Dan, it's very very good, very helpful. There's little

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<v Speaker 3>pits and pieces that you could you could quibble with,

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<v Speaker 3>but they basically portrayed it fair and square, and that's

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<v Speaker 3>pretty much.

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<v Speaker 2>I'm not gonna spoiled spoil the ending, but.

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<v Speaker 3>The end. The ending was a bit of a surprise.

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<v Speaker 3>But but I've been hopeful. I thought, well, we might

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<v Speaker 3>have going forward.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, well I don't think so, but but you almost,

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<v Speaker 2>I mean you almost could tell if you were thinking

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<v Speaker 2>what the ending was going to be. I mean, there

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<v Speaker 2>was a lot of what I would call foreshadowing in

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<v Speaker 2>that movie Let's Hope, Let's Hope. So so, so let's

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<v Speaker 2>let's talk about you have been a theologian for your

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<v Speaker 2>entire life. You served as a Catholic priest and at

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<v Speaker 2>one point decided that you were you wanted to go

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<v Speaker 2>in a different direction and uh, and you married the

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<v Speaker 2>love of your life and uh and very very successful

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<v Speaker 2>uh as as a teacher and as a professor.

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<v Speaker 3>And it is the only thing I knew I knew

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<v Speaker 3>how to do.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah. Well, the point is, though that I will rely

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<v Speaker 2>upon you to get a sense of where we're headed.

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<v Speaker 2>The church obviously went for the first time, at least

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<v Speaker 2>in my recollection for an Eastern European with John Paul two. Yes,

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<v Speaker 2>they then kind of came back to to to the

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<v Speaker 2>more traditional Benedict who was the only pope to resign, and.

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<v Speaker 3>Then they was in Germany. He was German. Remember then,

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<v Speaker 3>you know he still was an Italian. Because the pattern

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<v Speaker 3>through the eighteen nineteenth and even in the twentieth century,

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<v Speaker 3>was to elect an Italian because I had the majority

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<v Speaker 3>in the conclave, whereas at least Benedict was, you know,

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<v Speaker 3>not from Italy, and he was breaking open new ground.

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<v Speaker 3>He was the first German in a long time to

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<v Speaker 3>be elected pope.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, and then of course they really surprised first person

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<v Speaker 2>from the Western hemisphere of Pope Francis.

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<v Speaker 3>Uh, the first.

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<v Speaker 2>Ed a Jesuit. Yes, we have to mention that. I

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<v Speaker 2>was reminded of that again today by Jack Dunne of

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<v Speaker 2>your public your great relations department.

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<v Speaker 3>And some people say, maybe the last Jesuits for another

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<v Speaker 3>five hundred years.

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<v Speaker 2>Well, let's unless they decide to make you. You're eligible

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<v Speaker 2>any member of the Catholic Church. I guess Mayl is eligible.

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<v Speaker 3>So I think there need to be a cardinal. It

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<v Speaker 3>needs to be a cardinal. I've been passed over for that.

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<v Speaker 2>Dan.

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<v Speaker 3>So yeah, oh I didn't really.

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<v Speaker 2>Oh, I thought it was just anyone that they could.

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<v Speaker 2>They could if they wanted to.

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<v Speaker 3>I think you'd be Dan'd be in a day christ

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<v Speaker 3>bishop and then the car then.

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<v Speaker 2>Oh okay, fine, okay.

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<v Speaker 3>Well they've always been a card I didn't I didn't

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<v Speaker 3>think that they were gonna get okay, But that's okay.

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<v Speaker 2>So so we.

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<v Speaker 3>Now know what we think to remember Dan is that

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<v Speaker 3>this goes back. This is the two hundred and sixty

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<v Speaker 3>seventh pope. There's been two hundred's in Saint Peter two

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<v Speaker 3>thousand years ago, there's been two hundred and sixty six pope.

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<v Speaker 3>So everything you can imagine about it has happened, you know.

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<v Speaker 3>So like there was an eighteen year old was elected

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<v Speaker 3>the pope back in the seventh or eighth century because

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<v Speaker 3>he was the son of the emperor, and the emperor

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<v Speaker 3>told him that I want my son to be the pope,

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<v Speaker 3>and they voted for him.

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<v Speaker 2>Good work if you can get it.

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<v Speaker 3>But yeah, So it's amazing thing is that it has

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<v Speaker 3>the old Catholic theology that grace works through nature, and

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<v Speaker 3>so nature has been at work all along with God's

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<v Speaker 3>grace also has been at work. So in other words,

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<v Speaker 3>we've also end up with some darn good popes and

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<v Speaker 3>then of course a wonderful pope in Pope Francis. And

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<v Speaker 3>that'll be the big challenge to try to even begin

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<v Speaker 3>to replicate or or at least to approximate somebody as

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<v Speaker 3>wonderful and fantastic as well as Pope Prances and as

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<v Speaker 3>the kind of a leader that he was, and for

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<v Speaker 3>the whole world, not just for Catholics, but for five

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<v Speaker 3>Jewish friends and BUTLM friends and all kinds of non

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<v Speaker 3>religious friends that just taught the world of Pope France.

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<v Speaker 3>And so there's big shoes to fill, and the cards

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<v Speaker 3>have their work cut out for them to find another

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<v Speaker 3>Fancis or somebody comparable.

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<v Speaker 2>Well we get back, I want to talk about that.

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<v Speaker 2>I have some thoughts which probably are errant, but I

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<v Speaker 2>want to run those by you, and I want to

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<v Speaker 2>be able to get corrected as to how far off

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<v Speaker 2>base I am. But but I really I mean that honestly.

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<v Speaker 2>I'm also going to invite callers if they would like,

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<v Speaker 2>if you want to talk to someone who knows all

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<v Speaker 2>of I'm going to use the phrase inside baseball. Professor

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<v Speaker 2>Thomas Groom is here, and I don't want to in

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<v Speaker 2>any way, shape or form compare this to a baseball game.

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<v Speaker 2>But there's going to be some suspense, and whether it

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<v Speaker 2>goes into extra innings or not, we don't know. There

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<v Speaker 2>are supposed to be two votes in the morning tomorrow,

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<v Speaker 2>two votes in the afternoon of tradition holds, and at

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<v Speaker 2>that point that process might start to Winnow will have

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<v Speaker 2>to see how how it works out. My guest is

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<v Speaker 2>Professor Thomas Groom. He teaches at Boston College. He is

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<v Speaker 2>a theologian and someone who is deep in his knowledge

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<v Speaker 2>of the church. He is also, I think, as you

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<v Speaker 2>can tell, a huge fan of the late Pope, and

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<v Speaker 2>he's also I would say, probably you would characterize yourself

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<v Speaker 2>as fairly as definitely I would think of progressive and

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<v Speaker 2>is very No, I'm serious. There are a lot of

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<v Speaker 2>the issues that any new pope is going to face.

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<v Speaker 2>You have addressed either in writings or books. Is there

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<v Speaker 2>a new book with your name attached to it that

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<v Speaker 2>we need to write?

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<v Speaker 1>Late?

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<v Speaker 4>Oh?

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<v Speaker 3>Dan? Well, thank you Dan, thank you, thank you. Yes.

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<v Speaker 3>While I've written a number of books that I wouldn't write,

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<v Speaker 3>and many of them I wouldn't recommendes it. I require

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<v Speaker 3>my students to read them, but I wouldn't recommend them.

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<v Speaker 3>But I one book that I would recommend, and that's

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<v Speaker 3>a book called Faith for the Heart. Faith for the Heart,

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<v Speaker 3>and in the sense it addresses the issues that the

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<v Speaker 3>Contave is addressing, like how do we make sense out

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<v Speaker 3>of our faith at this time and this time and place,

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<v Speaker 3>and obviously the horizon duck's different than the past, and

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<v Speaker 3>we will live into new ways of practicing our faith

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<v Speaker 3>and guiding our faith and trying to appropriate and bring

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<v Speaker 3>us along with us. And I would sustain our lives

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<v Speaker 3>and so on and thend us ways of believing and

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<v Speaker 3>ways of belonging and ways of behaving which all of

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<v Speaker 3>us need if we're to live life. Well, so it's

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<v Speaker 3>still as a tremendous function to play on the world stage.

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<v Speaker 3>And I think our Catholic faith has a tremendous richness

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<v Speaker 3>to it.

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<v Speaker 2>Yes, and of course it's been through some it's been

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<v Speaker 2>through some turbulent times. Uh and uh, well we can

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<v Speaker 2>we can hit upon that as well. But we got

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<v Speaker 2>to take a break. The book book Faith, Faith for

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<v Speaker 2>the Heart by by Professor Thomas Groom of Boston College.

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<v Speaker 2>This is a quick break. We'll be back in about

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<v Speaker 2>three minutes, and I want to talk. I want to

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<v Speaker 2>pick a profile here and define what what I think

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<v Speaker 2>you think will will be produced by this conclave back

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<v Speaker 2>on night side with Professor Thomas Groom of Boston College,

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<v Speaker 2>theologian of great great repute. We're delighted to have him tonight.

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<v Speaker 2>If you like to join the conversation, you know the

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<v Speaker 2>number six one seven, two, five, four ten thirty or

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<v Speaker 2>six one seven nine three thirty. The good thing about

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<v Speaker 2>Professor Groom is whatever you ask him, you will get

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<v Speaker 2>an answer, and a direct and a straight answer. We're

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<v Speaker 2>coming back on Nightside.

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<v Speaker 1>It's Night Side with Boston's news Radio.

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<v Speaker 2>We're delighted to be joined by Professor Thomas Groom. Groom

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<v Speaker 2>a theologian at Boston College. You've taught at BC now

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<v Speaker 2>many many years. How how long have you been there? Oh?

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<v Speaker 3>My bes, Dan, if I teach for one more year,

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<v Speaker 3>because I hope to God spares me. I love talked

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<v Speaker 3>for fifty years at Boston College.

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<v Speaker 2>You for a lot, I can remember.

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<v Speaker 3>I often joked. I often joked that they hired me

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<v Speaker 3>just after I'd made my first Holy communion.

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<v Speaker 1>Wow.

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<v Speaker 2>Well, actually, technically then you're what's called PF which means

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<v Speaker 2>pre pre fluty.

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<v Speaker 3>Pre fluty. But actually I taught fluty. It's fascinating and

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<v Speaker 3>and if he was listening, I'd love to. I'd love to.

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<v Speaker 3>I love him to know the story. But I often say,

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<v Speaker 3>one of my greatest claims to fame. I thought, all

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<v Speaker 3>the books have written, in all the rest of it,

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<v Speaker 3>my greatest lam to fame. And I oftenize people, how

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<v Speaker 3>many of you have seen the Hail Mary pass every

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<v Speaker 3>hand today? And the audience goes up, and I said, well,

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<v Speaker 3>my greatest claim to fame is not the books have written.

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<v Speaker 3>My biggest claim is that I taught Doug Flutie to

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<v Speaker 3>hail Mary.

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<v Speaker 2>Well, listen, theology we would expect.

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<v Speaker 3>I had a theology course at Boston College, So in

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<v Speaker 3>a sense, I taught Doug the hail Mary.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, well, absolutely great. So here's my thought. Here's my thought,

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<v Speaker 2>and I want to tell me how far off base

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<v Speaker 2>I am. My sense is that these cardinals have an

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<v Speaker 2>option here, They have many options, and I think they

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<v Speaker 2>may want to come back philosophically a little to the center.

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<v Speaker 2>I know you're a big fan of Francis, and you

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<v Speaker 2>know I'm more than JP two guy. Maybe bring it

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<v Speaker 2>back somebody who's a little bit, a little bit less

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<v Speaker 2>adventuresome on some of the issues that I know are

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<v Speaker 2>so important to you. But I'm guessing they're going to

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<v Speaker 2>go to another continent, maybe maybe Asia or maybe Africa. Yeah,

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<v Speaker 2>I think that's where the action is how far off

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<v Speaker 2>am I do you think with that.

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<v Speaker 3>Analysis, Dan, I don't think you're off at all, really,

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<v Speaker 3>I mean from your lips to God's ears. I mean,

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<v Speaker 3>it could be a more moderate pope. Francis was a

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<v Speaker 3>bit of adventuresome, now there was. But but on the

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<v Speaker 3>other hand, he was on the on the social issues.

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<v Speaker 3>You know, there's migrants, the immigrants, the downright, the poor,

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<v Speaker 3>that downtrodden. I mean, his great symbol of his of

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<v Speaker 3>his pontificate to me was on a Thursday, that Holy Thursday,

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<v Speaker 3>going to the local prison, women's prison and washing the

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<v Speaker 3>feet of these young women in the prison. But he

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<v Speaker 3>was just extort the example of Christian love and charity

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<v Speaker 3>and care for the downtrodden, et cetera, which is core

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<v Speaker 3>to our faith. It's at the heart of our Catholic faith.

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<v Speaker 3>So I mean, they'll have to invite, they'll have to

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<v Speaker 3>like somebody that has those kinds of social values. Now

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<v Speaker 3>there might be a little more cautious I suppose that

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<v Speaker 3>some of the more controversial issues, but but they won't

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<v Speaker 3>go away. I mean, and Francis at least opened the

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<v Speaker 3>doors of the possibility of conversation, like the ordination of

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<v Speaker 3>women to the Diacton for example. Of course, if you

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<v Speaker 3>if you ordained them to the Acton, is to be

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<v Speaker 3>no theological reason for if you're declining them to priesthood

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<v Speaker 3>or episcopacy. Now, I think that conversation will continue, you know,

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<v Speaker 3>Carl Ronald writing thirty five forty years ago, they said

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<v Speaker 3>there's no theological reasons left anymore for declining ordination to

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<v Speaker 3>priesthood and ministry and so on to women. So there's

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<v Speaker 3>work to be done. But I think one of the

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<v Speaker 3>greatest contributions the legacies of for Francis will be this

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<v Speaker 3>notion of cinidality, when in many ways it turns that

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<v Speaker 3>were the church upside down instead of the hierarchy all

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<v Speaker 3>being in charge and telling the rest of us what

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<v Speaker 3>to do, it kind of turns the pyramid upside down

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<v Speaker 3>and the people get to participate and to have an

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<v Speaker 3>opinion and to share their opinion, and to have voice

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<v Speaker 3>in the church, and to participate and to bring their

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<v Speaker 3>to bring their gifts to the table as it were,

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<v Speaker 3>so rather than being a top down hierarchy. Know, the

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<v Speaker 3>hierarchical structure of the church will continue instead of bishops

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<v Speaker 3>and popes, et cetera. But I think this notion of

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<v Speaker 3>cynidality that France has launched in the world, and of

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<v Speaker 3>course it's an old idea, goes back to the very

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<v Speaker 3>beginnings of the church, the earliest centuries. But we're lost

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<v Speaker 3>it along the way, especially as Catholic Christians, we lost

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<v Speaker 3>it in some ways. Our Eastern brothers and as Orthodox

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<v Speaker 3>brothers and sisters were more faithful the synidality than we were.

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<v Speaker 3>But it's coming back, and I think that's going to

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<v Speaker 3>be one of the great agendas for the next pope

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<v Speaker 3>to continue to push for cynidality and the practice of sinidality.

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<v Speaker 2>Just so, professor, just so there's no confusion amongst the

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<v Speaker 2>the faithful. Here, Cynidality is spelled s y.

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<v Speaker 3>N o d from the Greek word the week, then

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<v Speaker 3>you know, which literally means to work, to walk along,

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<v Speaker 3>or to move along together.

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<v Speaker 2>Well, they talked about when you talk, when you talk

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<v Speaker 2>about that again, sinidality, I want to make sure that

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<v Speaker 2>no one thinks it's spelled si n That's all I'm saying.

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<v Speaker 3>Sorry, that's why, thank you.

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<v Speaker 2>N No, that's all. That's all. So let's do this,

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<v Speaker 2>let's let's take a break. I want to expand on that.

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<v Speaker 2>I always want to give people a chance to call.

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<v Speaker 2>I would love to hear from people who are either

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<v Speaker 2>non Catholics or people who are interested in the process.

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<v Speaker 2>We can talk about the process and all of that,

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<v Speaker 2>the history of this process which will produce the two

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<v Speaker 2>hundred and sixty seventh Pope in the history of the

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<v Speaker 2>Catholic Church. I think it's really interesting the amount of

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<v Speaker 2>attention that the American networks are giving to the papal

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<v Speaker 2>to the Papal conclave, because they are treating it only

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<v Speaker 2>what twenty five percent of their audience, probably Catholic. I'm

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<v Speaker 2>guessing that we have about sixty to seventy million Catholics

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<v Speaker 2>in America. I don't know that they would do this

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<v Speaker 2>when they there is ahead of any other religion in

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<v Speaker 2>the process of being elected or appointed, and that's to

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<v Speaker 2>me fascinating. I want to get your comment on that,

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<v Speaker 2>why in your opinion, and I also want to give

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<v Speaker 2>people an opportunity to ask you any questions. I mean,

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<v Speaker 2>you are somebody who believes that the church needs to modernize.

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<v Speaker 2>Whether people agree or or disagree, this is a church.

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<v Speaker 2>This is no longer the Catholic Church of the nineteen fifties.

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<v Speaker 2>It's now the Church of the twenty first century, and

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<v Speaker 2>there have been changes, and there are folks in the Church,

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<v Speaker 2>of which Professor Groom is one, that feel that the

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<v Speaker 2>changes must continue or if the church doesn't grow, it

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<v Speaker 2>will die. It's growing in other parts of the world,

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<v Speaker 2>and I want to make people understand that as well.

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<v Speaker 2>We'll get to all of that, I promise in your

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<v Speaker 2>phone call six one, seven, two, four, ten thirty, six months,

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<v Speaker 2>seven nine thirty, feel free join the conversation. That's why

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<v Speaker 2>Professor Groom is staying up late. He's gonna have to

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<v Speaker 2>get up early tomorrow morning because the Rome is six

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<v Speaker 2>hours ahead of us, and by time six o'clock in

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<v Speaker 2>the morning rolls around, it to be almost noontime in Rome.

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<v Speaker 2>So we very much appreciate him staying with us tonight,

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<v Speaker 2>but he will be gone by eleven o'clock. I could

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<v Speaker 2>talk to him all night long. This fascinating intellectual and theologian.

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<v Speaker 2>Back on Nightside right.

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<v Speaker 1>After this, It's Night Side with Dan Ray on w

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<v Speaker 1>Boston's news radio.

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<v Speaker 2>I'm joined by Boston College Theology Professor Thomas Groom. Professor Groom,

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<v Speaker 2>I am delighted, but somewhat surprised at the amount of

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<v Speaker 2>attention live coverage that not only the cable networks, but

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<v Speaker 2>the three major networks ABC, CBS, NBC have given to

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<v Speaker 2>not only the passing Pope princess, but the process now

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<v Speaker 2>by which his success will be chosen. Are you surprised

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<v Speaker 2>by that or no?

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<v Speaker 3>Well, I think no, not really, Dan in the sense

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<v Speaker 3>that well, yes, indeed it is surprising and gratifying in

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<v Speaker 3>a way, but I think some of it is the

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<v Speaker 3>the legacy of Pope Friences already emerging, that he really

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<v Speaker 3>won the hearts of the world. He was a pope

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<v Speaker 3>for everybody, and I think lots of people from all traditions,

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<v Speaker 3>especially people with any sense of social justice, any sense

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<v Speaker 3>of compassion, any sense of the rights of the downtrodden.

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<v Speaker 3>And he here for the environment, I mean, his passion

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<v Speaker 3>for trying to save our environment before we destroy it

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<v Speaker 3>and poison ourselves was exemplary and extraordinary in a gift

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<v Speaker 3>of the world, not just the Catholic faith. Now, you

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<v Speaker 3>know he's our pope and revere him as such, and

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<v Speaker 3>our leading teacher, etc. Et cetera. But I have lots

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<v Speaker 3>of friends from other traditions, and no tradition that deeply

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<v Speaker 3>admired the kind of values he was championing, and see

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<v Speaker 3>in our present political assignus. And so I think people

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<v Speaker 3>are hoping that maybe these Catholics can come up with

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<v Speaker 3>another pope like Francis that would do the same kind

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<v Speaker 3>of leadership on the world stage. Now, he'd also need

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<v Speaker 3>to be the pope of the Catholic Church, and of

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<v Speaker 3>course you will be. But it's a bigger role than

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<v Speaker 3>just for the Catholic Church.

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<v Speaker 2>But that that isn't that the inherent conflict in the

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<v Speaker 2>sense that the criticism of Francis came often from the

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<v Speaker 2>folks who were perhaps pushing him a little further on

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<v Speaker 2>things like gay marriage and and to what to what

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<v Speaker 2>level should the church go women as priests. You know,

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<v Speaker 2>he held the line on many of those issues. It's

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<v Speaker 2>easy to talk about, you know, being a good steward

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<v Speaker 2>of God's green earth. I mean, look, you get into

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<v Speaker 2>the whole climate change and what do you do about it.

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<v Speaker 2>That's where where the water gets choppy. But but I

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<v Speaker 2>don't know anybody who wants to destroy the.

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<v Speaker 3>Planet, you know, don't want to take precautions to preserve us.

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<v Speaker 3>I mean, there are people who are happy to exploit

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<v Speaker 3>it and pretend that there is no crisis and there

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<v Speaker 3>is no environmental challenge.

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<v Speaker 2>Well, I think that with I think that within some sides,

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<v Speaker 2>with all due respect, professor, there are some who would say, Okay,

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<v Speaker 2>you know, a little bit of soul, a little bit

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<v Speaker 2>of this, but we need to bring in some nuclear

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<v Speaker 2>or whatever, and and then people kind of it becomes

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<v Speaker 2>sort of you talk about cafeteria Catholics, it also is

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<v Speaker 2>cafeteria issues. Like you know, so if we could just

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<v Speaker 2>do it with soul and just to the wind, that

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<v Speaker 2>would be great, but you have to have something more

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<v Speaker 2>than that, and then you get the question of of

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<v Speaker 2>I'm just saying I think I would like to assume

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<v Speaker 2>that that there's nobody who wants to destroy the earth,

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<v Speaker 2>and that there's and I'd like to assume that there's

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<v Speaker 2>nobody who really wants to use nuclear weapons. But obviously

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<v Speaker 2>we have to be concerned about those sorts of issues.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, And I'm just saying that that whenever I talk

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<v Speaker 2>to you, I get excited because I think you have

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<v Speaker 2>a real good sense of where the church is going.

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<v Speaker 2>But I also think that the church has has its uh,

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<v Speaker 2>it's it's it's religious. I'm going to use the word

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<v Speaker 2>religious ideology that that that any pope, uh is he

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<v Speaker 2>cont straight too far from that? And there are people,

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<v Speaker 2>there are people. Yeah, that's and that's the balance that

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<v Speaker 2>they have to that that needs to be struck. Go ahead,

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<v Speaker 2>I didn't I don't mean to dominate.

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<v Speaker 3>It has to be no matter what they do, it

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<v Speaker 3>has to be faithful to the tradition. I mean, we're

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<v Speaker 3>all we're all our calls to give our religions to

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<v Speaker 3>the Creed, you know, to the niceeing Creed and the

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<v Speaker 3>confession of faith we make there and you know, to

421
00:22:40.720 --> 00:22:43.079
<v Speaker 3>Jesus Christ as our Lord and Savior and so on,

422
00:22:43.160 --> 00:22:46.400
<v Speaker 3>and the church is a sacrament of God's salvation of

423
00:22:46.440 --> 00:22:49.240
<v Speaker 3>the world, et cetera, et cetera. So that, I mean,

424
00:22:49.279 --> 00:22:52.000
<v Speaker 3>the common faith is there, but as we implement it,

425
00:22:52.079 --> 00:22:54.880
<v Speaker 3>as we expanded out in this post nuclear age, and

426
00:22:54.920 --> 00:22:58.200
<v Speaker 3>it's this, you know, it's posts almost everything you know,

427
00:22:58.279 --> 00:23:04.240
<v Speaker 3>postmodern post God knows. It's a new day. There's one

428
00:23:04.440 --> 00:23:08.640
<v Speaker 3>theologian that writes about the afternoon of Christianity and that

429
00:23:08.799 --> 00:23:11.720
<v Speaker 3>in a sense, his proposed is that the afternoon won't

430
00:23:11.720 --> 00:23:14.440
<v Speaker 3>be quite like the morning. Uh. Now, they'll still be

431
00:23:14.519 --> 00:23:18.559
<v Speaker 3>faith and and you know, deep faith, but some of

432
00:23:18.599 --> 00:23:21.720
<v Speaker 3>the rules and regulations and structures and so on that

433
00:23:21.720 --> 00:23:25.079
<v Speaker 3>it may have served as well at some time in

434
00:23:25.079 --> 00:23:29.720
<v Speaker 3>a different contexts and ages and cultures. But it'll keep evolving.

435
00:23:29.759 --> 00:23:32.160
<v Speaker 3>If the faith is to if it's to grow, and

436
00:23:32.200 --> 00:23:34.119
<v Speaker 3>if it's to continue, it will have to be remain

437
00:23:34.240 --> 00:23:37.400
<v Speaker 3>vital I continue to push out into new horizons. I

438
00:23:37.400 --> 00:23:40.599
<v Speaker 3>think that's where That's where Francis was such a leader,

439
00:23:41.480 --> 00:23:44.160
<v Speaker 3>not just for Catholics, but for all people of goodwill?

440
00:23:44.799 --> 00:23:47.920
<v Speaker 2>Is lebis? Is there an inherent conflict here in the

441
00:23:47.960 --> 00:23:52.400
<v Speaker 2>sense that the church is doing well in different parts

442
00:23:52.440 --> 00:23:55.920
<v Speaker 2>of the world. It's not doing well in Europe, it's

443
00:23:55.960 --> 00:23:59.240
<v Speaker 2>not doing as well in the United States as it

444
00:23:59.279 --> 00:24:01.839
<v Speaker 2>once did. We can, I think we can agree upon that.

445
00:24:01.920 --> 00:24:05.440
<v Speaker 2>And it's doing well in South America, it's doing well

446
00:24:05.480 --> 00:24:10.759
<v Speaker 2>in Africa. Yes, yeah, So the question is here's my question.

447
00:24:11.599 --> 00:24:15.440
<v Speaker 2>My question is a lot of the conveniences of the

448
00:24:15.480 --> 00:24:20.400
<v Speaker 2>West electricity and and and air conditioning, all of which

449
00:24:21.319 --> 00:24:25.119
<v Speaker 2>on climate change, there's there's there's there's sort of that

450
00:24:25.119 --> 00:24:29.400
<v Speaker 2>that argument how much air conditioning? How much electricity can

451
00:24:29.440 --> 00:24:33.599
<v Speaker 2>we use before we're overusing it? Yet there's parts of

452
00:24:33.640 --> 00:24:36.039
<v Speaker 2>the world where the church is not doing well, where

453
00:24:36.039 --> 00:24:38.559
<v Speaker 2>there is no electricity or there is no air conditioning.

454
00:24:38.759 --> 00:24:42.400
<v Speaker 2>So as they come into the modern world, what conflict

455
00:24:42.480 --> 00:24:45.640
<v Speaker 2>do they have to deal with in terms of the

456
00:24:45.680 --> 00:24:50.440
<v Speaker 2>creature comforts of the world versus what the church requires.

457
00:24:51.000 --> 00:24:52.799
<v Speaker 2>Do you know where I'm trying to go with this question?

458
00:24:52.920 --> 00:24:55.480
<v Speaker 3>Yeah? I do, then, And it's a great question, and

459
00:24:56.079 --> 00:24:57.880
<v Speaker 3>it's a better question that I've been asked in a

460
00:24:57.920 --> 00:25:00.119
<v Speaker 3>long time. And I'm not sure I can give in

461
00:25:00.160 --> 00:25:01.720
<v Speaker 3>adequate answer to it, but I'm going to give it

462
00:25:01.720 --> 00:25:05.200
<v Speaker 3>a kind of a simplistic response to what you're saying.

463
00:25:05.640 --> 00:25:09.039
<v Speaker 3>The heart of our faith is Jesus of Nazareth, and

464
00:25:09.119 --> 00:25:12.400
<v Speaker 3>I mean Jesus of Nazareth, the carpenter who walked the

465
00:25:12.440 --> 00:25:15.279
<v Speaker 3>roads of Galilee. Now our Christian faith we also believe

466
00:25:15.319 --> 00:25:17.000
<v Speaker 3>he was the Son of God and the second person

467
00:25:17.000 --> 00:25:19.559
<v Speaker 3>of blessed Trinity, and the divine presence in human history,

468
00:25:19.559 --> 00:25:21.839
<v Speaker 3>in our Lord and Savior, et cetera, et cetera. But

469
00:25:21.920 --> 00:25:24.920
<v Speaker 3>the Catholic faith has ape France has led the way

470
00:25:24.960 --> 00:25:27.039
<v Speaker 3>with this. If you were to say, what was it

471
00:25:27.119 --> 00:25:30.279
<v Speaker 3>the heart and center and soul of Francis's pontificate. I

472
00:25:30.279 --> 00:25:33.359
<v Speaker 3>would say Jesus. Now, so that's because he was a Jesuit.

473
00:25:33.400 --> 00:25:37.079
<v Speaker 3>He's a society of Jesus. But that emphasis that Catholics

474
00:25:37.079 --> 00:25:40.319
<v Speaker 3>have in some ways rediscovered this, the emphasis on the

475
00:25:40.480 --> 00:25:43.960
<v Speaker 3>historical Jesus and the values he stud for and the

476
00:25:44.000 --> 00:25:47.079
<v Speaker 3>truths he proclaimed, that the lifestyle he lived, and his

477
00:25:47.160 --> 00:25:49.640
<v Speaker 3>greatest commandment that the only way we can love God

478
00:25:50.079 --> 00:25:53.240
<v Speaker 3>is by loving our neighbor as ourselves. And I was hungry,

479
00:25:53.359 --> 00:25:55.200
<v Speaker 3>gave me to eat. I was thirsty, you gave me

480
00:25:55.279 --> 00:25:57.279
<v Speaker 3>to drink. God will not say there was a hungry

481
00:25:57.279 --> 00:25:59.319
<v Speaker 3>person one time in your feed them, but rather I

482
00:25:59.440 --> 00:26:01.799
<v Speaker 3>was hungry be to eat. I mean, it's a very

483
00:26:01.920 --> 00:26:04.720
<v Speaker 3>radical gospel that Jesus left us. Now, there's much more

484
00:26:04.759 --> 00:26:06.559
<v Speaker 3>to our faith than just the gospels, you know what

485
00:26:06.599 --> 00:26:08.799
<v Speaker 3>I mean, whether it's two thousand years since then and

486
00:26:08.880 --> 00:26:11.319
<v Speaker 3>the evolution of our faith, et cetera. And yet there's

487
00:26:11.359 --> 00:26:14.559
<v Speaker 3>something that France has caused was rather amazing when he

488
00:26:14.640 --> 00:26:17.200
<v Speaker 3>called us back to the historical Jesus and to look

489
00:26:17.240 --> 00:26:20.440
<v Speaker 3>again at the pattern that the values he lived. And

490
00:26:20.480 --> 00:26:22.920
<v Speaker 3>you know, he was constantly giving out bread to people.

491
00:26:23.240 --> 00:26:25.640
<v Speaker 3>I mean, there's there's only two there's only two miracles

492
00:26:25.720 --> 00:26:28.319
<v Speaker 3>reported six times in the Gospel. One is the miracle

493
00:26:28.359 --> 00:26:30.480
<v Speaker 3>of the Resurrection and the other is the miracle of

494
00:26:30.519 --> 00:26:33.720
<v Speaker 3>the loaves and fishes. It's in all four Gospels, Matthew, Mark, Luke,

495
00:26:33.720 --> 00:26:35.599
<v Speaker 3>and John, and twice in Matthew, twice in the Mark

496
00:26:35.920 --> 00:26:39.759
<v Speaker 3>Jesus multiplying loaves, four loaves, five love, seventh fish whatever,

497
00:26:40.039 --> 00:26:43.640
<v Speaker 3>to cure thousands, and to heal thousands and thousands of people,

498
00:26:43.640 --> 00:26:45.839
<v Speaker 3>and to cure the sick among them, et cetera. And

499
00:26:45.880 --> 00:26:48.400
<v Speaker 3>that's that kind of Jesus. I mean, that's the one

500
00:26:48.440 --> 00:26:50.960
<v Speaker 3>that calls us to the depths and to the deep

501
00:26:51.000 --> 00:26:53.440
<v Speaker 3>commitment of our faith. And now, as they said, there's

502
00:26:53.440 --> 00:26:56.400
<v Speaker 3>more to our faith than just saying Jesus. But Pope

503
00:26:56.400 --> 00:26:58.400
<v Speaker 3>Francis has done that was what I think. It's a

504
00:26:58.400 --> 00:27:02.799
<v Speaker 3>great legacy to return us and to more refocus us

505
00:27:02.799 --> 00:27:06.480
<v Speaker 3>more deliberately. Uh not on Thomas Aquinas or Augustin or

506
00:27:06.519 --> 00:27:08.680
<v Speaker 3>somebody or a gat theologians, which we spend a lot

507
00:27:08.720 --> 00:27:12.519
<v Speaker 3>of time doing, but rather to begin our focus on Jesus.

508
00:27:13.279 --> 00:27:17.720
<v Speaker 2>I would I would argue in a in a in

509
00:27:17.759 --> 00:27:24.960
<v Speaker 2>a polite way that the American economic system, which can

510
00:27:25.000 --> 00:27:32.920
<v Speaker 2>be tough rugged individualism, capitalism, whatever, also has produced more

511
00:27:32.960 --> 00:27:35.519
<v Speaker 2>food for more people, and not only in America but

512
00:27:35.599 --> 00:27:39.079
<v Speaker 2>in different parts of the world. Uh that I'm not

513
00:27:39.119 --> 00:27:42.359
<v Speaker 2>sure that that that Francis would would look at maybe,

514
00:27:42.519 --> 00:27:45.640
<v Speaker 2>you know, unbridled capitalism. As many of us in America,

515
00:27:45.640 --> 00:27:47.880
<v Speaker 2>we look at it as something that is good because,

516
00:27:48.240 --> 00:27:50.400
<v Speaker 2>as you know, I think it was President Kennedy said,

517
00:27:50.400 --> 00:27:52.960
<v Speaker 2>a rising tide lives all boats. And I think that's

518
00:27:54.079 --> 00:27:57.960
<v Speaker 2>that's that's the rising tide of America that that hopefully

519
00:27:58.079 --> 00:28:02.920
<v Speaker 2>is going to help other kind tries learn to feed

520
00:28:02.960 --> 00:28:07.839
<v Speaker 2>more people and to be more successful. That's I don't

521
00:28:07.839 --> 00:28:09.839
<v Speaker 2>know if there's an inherent conflict there or if it's

522
00:28:09.880 --> 00:28:13.079
<v Speaker 2>complimentary Tom, that's I professor.

523
00:28:13.480 --> 00:28:15.160
<v Speaker 3>Hopefully it can be complimentary there.

524
00:28:15.240 --> 00:28:19.680
<v Speaker 2>Yes, Okay, let me take a very quick call here

525
00:28:20.480 --> 00:28:22.359
<v Speaker 2>and we'll take some more after the break, but I'm

526
00:28:22.359 --> 00:28:25.279
<v Speaker 2>going to get to Jennifer, who's been holding on from

527
00:28:25.359 --> 00:28:29.440
<v Speaker 2>Yarmouth Port. Jennifer, your own professor Tom Broom of Boston College,

528
00:28:29.440 --> 00:28:30.079
<v Speaker 2>go right ahead.

529
00:28:30.799 --> 00:28:33.720
<v Speaker 4>Okay, Well, I just have one very quick question. How

530
00:28:33.720 --> 00:28:35.759
<v Speaker 4>many cardinals are actually voting?

531
00:28:37.200 --> 00:28:40.279
<v Speaker 2>Okay, it's one hundred and thirty nine. Would you please

532
00:28:40.279 --> 00:28:45.680
<v Speaker 2>call him back for us. I was not. I hope

533
00:28:45.680 --> 00:28:49.279
<v Speaker 2>he didn't get disconnected, but please call him back. It's

534
00:28:49.319 --> 00:28:52.279
<v Speaker 2>one hundred and thirty nine cardinals, Jennifer, who vote and

535
00:28:52.319 --> 00:28:54.880
<v Speaker 2>in order to I think the number is one hundred

536
00:28:54.880 --> 00:28:57.519
<v Speaker 2>and thirty nine, and the number that are needed to

537
00:28:57.880 --> 00:29:01.720
<v Speaker 2>elect is two thirds of that, which I believe is

538
00:29:01.720 --> 00:29:04.000
<v Speaker 2>something like eighty nine when I did my math.

539
00:29:05.079 --> 00:29:11.440
<v Speaker 4>Okay, Jennifer nominated for the Pope? Do you get nominated?

540
00:29:11.920 --> 00:29:12.119
<v Speaker 4>You know?

541
00:29:12.960 --> 00:29:15.680
<v Speaker 2>Jennifer, hold off for one second. Did we lose Jennifer? Now,

542
00:29:16.279 --> 00:29:22.440
<v Speaker 2>what's going on with our phones? Jennifer? Yeah, Jennifer, please

543
00:29:22.480 --> 00:29:27.000
<v Speaker 2>call back. Professor. You dropped off on us, and I

544
00:29:27.000 --> 00:29:29.359
<v Speaker 2>think we got a little problem with our phones here.

545
00:29:30.200 --> 00:29:33.319
<v Speaker 2>Jennifer was on the line. She started to ask me

546
00:29:33.400 --> 00:29:35.720
<v Speaker 2>some questions that I wanted to defer to you. The

547
00:29:36.000 --> 00:29:37.839
<v Speaker 2>She wanted to know how many cardinals I told her

548
00:29:38.119 --> 00:29:40.000
<v Speaker 2>that are eligible to vote. I think it's one hundred

549
00:29:40.039 --> 00:29:42.880
<v Speaker 2>and thirty nine, if I'm not mistaken.

550
00:29:41.640 --> 00:29:44.279
<v Speaker 3>One hundred and thirty three. Actually, Dan, if you didn't

551
00:29:44.319 --> 00:29:47.880
<v Speaker 3>show up and we're sick, okay, thirty three.

552
00:29:48.039 --> 00:29:50.240
<v Speaker 2>So now the two thirds of that is going to

553
00:29:50.279 --> 00:29:54.599
<v Speaker 2>be probably somewhere around eighty nine. Okay, eighty nine. I

554
00:29:54.640 --> 00:29:57.240
<v Speaker 2>was right on that number. Okay, Jennifer has rejoined us.

555
00:29:57.279 --> 00:29:59.240
<v Speaker 2>Let's do this, Let's take a break, Let's get our

556
00:29:59.279 --> 00:30:03.880
<v Speaker 2>phones right, and we'll come back with Professor Thomas Groom

557
00:30:04.039 --> 00:30:07.799
<v Speaker 2>of Boston College, who's a Jesuit theologian. And Jennifer, thank

558
00:30:07.839 --> 00:30:10.039
<v Speaker 2>you for calling back. We didn't get you off our phone.

559
00:30:10.079 --> 00:30:11.759
<v Speaker 2>We're giving us a little bit of trouble. We'll get

560
00:30:11.759 --> 00:30:13.720
<v Speaker 2>everything all set and we'll come back on Nightside right

561
00:30:13.720 --> 00:30:14.119
<v Speaker 2>after this.

562
00:30:15.519 --> 00:30:18.799
<v Speaker 1>So you're on night Side with Dan Ray on WA

563
00:30:19.319 --> 00:30:20.559
<v Speaker 1>Boston's news radio.

564
00:30:21.400 --> 00:30:23.160
<v Speaker 2>We're going to go back to the phones and keep

565
00:30:23.160 --> 00:30:26.720
<v Speaker 2>our fingers crossed. Jennifer, we got you back here. We

566
00:30:26.920 --> 00:30:29.400
<v Speaker 2>just lost Tom Groom here. Something's going on with the phones.

567
00:30:30.240 --> 00:30:34.839
<v Speaker 2>Please bring Professor Groom back as quickly as you can. Jennifer,

568
00:30:35.559 --> 00:30:37.240
<v Speaker 2>I don't know what's going on with the phones. Can

569
00:30:37.279 --> 00:30:37.640
<v Speaker 2>you hear me?

570
00:30:38.559 --> 00:30:39.640
<v Speaker 4>I can can you hear me?

571
00:30:40.039 --> 00:30:42.799
<v Speaker 2>Yes? We can, And I believe that Professor Groom is

572
00:30:42.839 --> 00:30:45.559
<v Speaker 2>ready to join us. So you go right ahead. We

573
00:30:45.599 --> 00:30:48.000
<v Speaker 2>have Professor Groom on the line. Go ahead, Jennifer. What's

574
00:30:48.000 --> 00:30:49.119
<v Speaker 2>your question from my guest?

575
00:30:49.319 --> 00:30:51.920
<v Speaker 4>Oh? Okay, so you had said that there were one

576
00:30:52.000 --> 00:30:54.720
<v Speaker 4>hundred and somebody nine people that are actually voting.

577
00:30:54.799 --> 00:30:55.599
<v Speaker 1>Is that one undred?

578
00:30:55.920 --> 00:30:59.240
<v Speaker 2>Professor Groom corrected me. One hundred and thirty three cardinals

579
00:30:59.240 --> 00:31:02.319
<v Speaker 2>are present, and so they comprised the conclave, and that

580
00:31:02.400 --> 00:31:05.799
<v Speaker 2>means I think it's eighty nine that will be necessary

581
00:31:06.000 --> 00:31:08.480
<v Speaker 2>the two thirds majority. But go ahead, you ask your

582
00:31:08.599 --> 00:31:10.559
<v Speaker 2>question directly of Professor Groom. He can hear you.

583
00:31:11.440 --> 00:31:15.119
<v Speaker 4>Okay, So how many how many people are actually vying

584
00:31:15.200 --> 00:31:18.319
<v Speaker 4>for the pope position? How many of those people are

585
00:31:18.839 --> 00:31:19.480
<v Speaker 4>in their running?

586
00:31:20.000 --> 00:31:22.880
<v Speaker 2>Okay, well, professor, go right ahead, professor.

587
00:31:22.960 --> 00:31:25.559
<v Speaker 3>So technically all one hundred and thirty three of them

588
00:31:25.599 --> 00:31:28.400
<v Speaker 3>are eligible, and even if it would be possible for

589
00:31:28.440 --> 00:31:31.279
<v Speaker 3>them to reach outside of the conclave and I'm appointed

590
00:31:31.440 --> 00:31:35.039
<v Speaker 3>archbishop or a bishop, they could easily raise somebody to

591
00:31:35.079 --> 00:31:37.519
<v Speaker 3>the level that would be unusual, and it wouldn't be

592
00:31:37.880 --> 00:31:41.640
<v Speaker 3>you know, with no precedent recently for in the recent centuries.

593
00:31:41.960 --> 00:31:44.039
<v Speaker 3>So it's more more than likely that one of the

594
00:31:44.039 --> 00:31:46.680
<v Speaker 3>one hundred and thirty three cardinals that are there, one

595
00:31:46.720 --> 00:31:49.359
<v Speaker 3>of them will be selected. You know, it's it's probably

596
00:31:49.400 --> 00:31:54.839
<v Speaker 3>ninety nine to percent likely. And now so that they

597
00:31:54.880 --> 00:31:57.960
<v Speaker 3>have to get eighty nine votes, as Dan said, or

598
00:31:58.000 --> 00:32:00.920
<v Speaker 3>eighty nine positive votes and the point is of the

599
00:32:00.960 --> 00:32:03.440
<v Speaker 3>one hundred and thirty three that are voting Paul France

600
00:32:03.519 --> 00:32:05.720
<v Speaker 3>is a point at one hundred and eight of them.

601
00:32:05.960 --> 00:32:08.839
<v Speaker 3>In other words, four fifth of them were appointed by Francis.

602
00:32:08.920 --> 00:32:11.400
<v Speaker 3>So the assumption is that most people make is that

603
00:32:11.960 --> 00:32:15.400
<v Speaker 3>UH have a similar sentiment to poor Francis, that he

604
00:32:15.440 --> 00:32:18.519
<v Speaker 3>would have chosen people of like mind to himself, you know,

605
00:32:18.559 --> 00:32:20.519
<v Speaker 3>within reason. I'm sure there'll be lots of the agreements

606
00:32:20.519 --> 00:32:24.079
<v Speaker 3>and disagreements, but that generally speaking, there are church people

607
00:32:24.119 --> 00:32:27.039
<v Speaker 3>who would be in the mold of Francis. So I

608
00:32:27.079 --> 00:32:30.880
<v Speaker 3>would be fairly confident that the next pope will continue

609
00:32:31.599 --> 00:32:34.240
<v Speaker 3>the same style and a lot of the a lot

610
00:32:34.240 --> 00:32:37.799
<v Speaker 3>of the typical The central agenda of that was the

611
00:32:37.839 --> 00:32:39.440
<v Speaker 3>pontificate of poor Francis.

612
00:32:40.079 --> 00:32:42.480
<v Speaker 2>So then the question, the question that Jennifer answer.

613
00:32:42.319 --> 00:32:45.200
<v Speaker 4>I certainly respect Francis for all of his you know,

614
00:32:45.240 --> 00:32:48.480
<v Speaker 4>work for the Catholic Church. I think it's just amazing, you.

615
00:32:48.440 --> 00:32:51.279
<v Speaker 3>Know, and for the world and for the world.

616
00:32:51.480 --> 00:32:54.759
<v Speaker 2>Yes, you know, jif Jennifer asked a question which which

617
00:32:54.799 --> 00:32:56.400
<v Speaker 2>I'm not sure if you can hear me, but Jennifer

618
00:32:56.440 --> 00:32:59.160
<v Speaker 2>asked the question of how many people I think the

619
00:32:59.400 --> 00:33:02.519
<v Speaker 2>verbs you use was vying for the job. This is

620
00:33:02.559 --> 00:33:05.799
<v Speaker 2>not a job you can really run for, correct, Professor.

621
00:33:05.359 --> 00:33:09.720
<v Speaker 3>Groom, Well, Dan, look at the old Catholic theology is

622
00:33:09.720 --> 00:33:12.519
<v Speaker 3>that grace works through nature. In other words, there'll be

623
00:33:12.519 --> 00:33:15.240
<v Speaker 3>people there that'll be running for it. But maybe God's

624
00:33:15.240 --> 00:33:16.960
<v Speaker 3>grace can work through that as well. You know what

625
00:33:16.960 --> 00:33:19.279
<v Speaker 3>I mean. There's never a pure system that comes down

626
00:33:19.319 --> 00:33:22.640
<v Speaker 3>from heaven. It always comes through human agency, and the

627
00:33:22.720 --> 00:33:26.039
<v Speaker 3>human agency like ourselves of opinions, and they'll agree, and

628
00:33:26.079 --> 00:33:28.480
<v Speaker 3>they'll disagree, and they'll be envy and all kinds of

629
00:33:28.519 --> 00:33:31.720
<v Speaker 3>things between them. But meanwhile, as I said, but that's

630
00:33:31.759 --> 00:33:34.680
<v Speaker 3>how God's grace works typically through nature. The ordinary in

631
00:33:34.720 --> 00:33:38.039
<v Speaker 3>the every day of life is what's sacramental to be

632
00:33:38.079 --> 00:33:41.799
<v Speaker 3>the same this in this contlave. So hopefully we'll get

633
00:33:41.799 --> 00:33:46.440
<v Speaker 3>a pope that as the blessings of God but also

634
00:33:46.599 --> 00:33:49.319
<v Speaker 3>was able to win the majority votes of the conslave.

635
00:33:50.160 --> 00:33:54.119
<v Speaker 2>Aging is age in European.

636
00:33:54.160 --> 00:33:57.200
<v Speaker 3>I'd say, I would say they probably won't want to

637
00:33:57.319 --> 00:34:01.440
<v Speaker 3>appoint somebody that's significantly well, what do you mean by old,

638
00:34:01.839 --> 00:34:05.279
<v Speaker 3>I mean I would say over eighty. On the other hand,

639
00:34:05.359 --> 00:34:08.519
<v Speaker 3>I don't think there's a couple of front runners that

640
00:34:08.519 --> 00:34:14.559
<v Speaker 3>are in their sixties. One in particular, Cardinal Pizza Bala.

641
00:34:15.079 --> 00:34:18.079
<v Speaker 3>He's very fascinating. He's a patriarch of Jerusalem. He's a

642
00:34:18.079 --> 00:34:20.360
<v Speaker 3>hot favorite. But he's only sixty years of age. So

643
00:34:20.679 --> 00:34:22.920
<v Speaker 3>if he lived to be ninety, which wouldn't be unusual

644
00:34:22.960 --> 00:34:25.679
<v Speaker 3>in this day and age, it might be too long

645
00:34:25.719 --> 00:34:27.920
<v Speaker 3>to have him. So they might pass him over this

646
00:34:28.039 --> 00:34:30.079
<v Speaker 3>time and like him the next time. I don't know.

647
00:34:30.159 --> 00:34:32.119
<v Speaker 3>We don't know what the Holy Spurs was up to

648
00:34:32.159 --> 00:34:35.440
<v Speaker 3>it all, but yeah, there'll be some of them that

649
00:34:35.440 --> 00:34:37.119
<v Speaker 3>that might be a bit too young. I mean, some

650
00:34:37.199 --> 00:34:41.079
<v Speaker 3>of them might be a bit too old. But then

651
00:34:41.199 --> 00:34:45.800
<v Speaker 3>that's all so relative. I I wish Sean O'Malley was running.

652
00:34:46.320 --> 00:34:49.960
<v Speaker 3>He'd make a great pope, but unfortunately he passed the

653
00:34:49.960 --> 00:34:52.559
<v Speaker 3>age of eighty. But he'll have a voice, you know,

654
00:34:52.679 --> 00:34:57.039
<v Speaker 3>because he's you know, he's very well respected and appreciated

655
00:34:57.079 --> 00:34:59.320
<v Speaker 3>in Rome and by the bishops, on the cardios and

656
00:34:59.360 --> 00:35:01.679
<v Speaker 3>throughout the world. So I bet he got consulted.

657
00:35:01.880 --> 00:35:06.400
<v Speaker 2>Okay, so he's over eighty, he's not he's not allowed

658
00:35:06.400 --> 00:35:10.360
<v Speaker 2>to vote. But could they at some point say well

659
00:35:10.480 --> 00:35:11.719
<v Speaker 2>what about Sean O'Malley?

660
00:35:12.119 --> 00:35:17.079
<v Speaker 3>Could could He's conceivable it's conceivable, Danavable, they could easily

661
00:35:17.079 --> 00:35:19.480
<v Speaker 3>pick them somebody from outside of there that that has

662
00:35:19.559 --> 00:35:22.840
<v Speaker 3>gone past the retirement age. But I'm just sailing good

663
00:35:22.880 --> 00:35:27.239
<v Speaker 3>health and so on, and you know the celebrat or

664
00:35:27.320 --> 00:35:29.559
<v Speaker 3>now there's all kinds of people who have lived into

665
00:35:29.880 --> 00:35:33.559
<v Speaker 3>into into old old age and the big leadership positions.

666
00:35:34.199 --> 00:35:38.280
<v Speaker 2>What about what about the the the cardinal from the Philippines.

667
00:35:38.320 --> 00:35:41.599
<v Speaker 2>I'm a couple of yeah.

668
00:35:41.000 --> 00:35:47.360
<v Speaker 3>Yeah about he's a wonderful person. He's a wonderful person, Tagla,

669
00:35:47.519 --> 00:35:49.800
<v Speaker 3>and they say very much in the in the mold

670
00:35:49.880 --> 00:35:52.960
<v Speaker 3>of Pau Francis. The only difficulty is that the Philippine

671
00:35:53.079 --> 00:35:56.519
<v Speaker 3>Church has done very poorly by way of addressing the

672
00:35:56.559 --> 00:35:59.800
<v Speaker 3>issue of clergy sex abuse. That they're basically kept it

673
00:35:59.840 --> 00:36:03.199
<v Speaker 3>on wraps. And it's a lot of criticism of the

674
00:36:03.199 --> 00:36:06.760
<v Speaker 3>Philippine Church. Now, whether Tagley gets gets tired with that

675
00:36:06.840 --> 00:36:10.000
<v Speaker 3>brush or not is a good question. Maybe he you know,

676
00:36:10.039 --> 00:36:12.719
<v Speaker 3>he wasn't a part of that, but that that that

677
00:36:12.760 --> 00:36:17.440
<v Speaker 3>will be one question about his suitability because that remains

678
00:36:17.679 --> 00:36:20.119
<v Speaker 3>a crucial crisis for the church. That has to be

679
00:36:20.440 --> 00:36:23.840
<v Speaker 3>that they have to continue address very active, you know,

680
00:36:24.400 --> 00:36:25.519
<v Speaker 3>competition huge to.

681
00:36:25.559 --> 00:36:28.079
<v Speaker 2>Have quieted down but it's not going to go away

682
00:36:28.119 --> 00:36:28.920
<v Speaker 2>for a long time.

683
00:36:30.000 --> 00:36:32.280
<v Speaker 3>It's not going to go away because in many ways

684
00:36:32.480 --> 00:36:34.719
<v Speaker 3>they still have to have to face the question not

685
00:36:34.880 --> 00:36:37.320
<v Speaker 3>just what happened, but why did it happen? And why

686
00:36:37.400 --> 00:36:40.280
<v Speaker 3>was it allowed to continue happening. Uh, there are questions

687
00:36:40.280 --> 00:36:42.119
<v Speaker 3>that we still have to address, and the next pope,

688
00:36:42.159 --> 00:36:46.920
<v Speaker 3>hopefully will will address them and and maybe maybe uh

689
00:36:47.559 --> 00:36:50.400
<v Speaker 3>the one you mentioned tag lay will will be a

690
00:36:50.519 --> 00:36:55.119
<v Speaker 3>fine expression of that. But yeah, we'll have we'll we'll

691
00:36:55.159 --> 00:36:57.079
<v Speaker 3>have to wait and see Jennifer.

692
00:36:57.199 --> 00:36:59.519
<v Speaker 2>Any final question from you. Thank you for calling. I'm

693
00:36:59.519 --> 00:37:01.360
<v Speaker 2>sorry about the problems with the phones.

694
00:37:01.840 --> 00:37:03.920
<v Speaker 4>Oh that's okay, Jan And I hope to see you

695
00:37:03.960 --> 00:37:06.199
<v Speaker 4>over the summer when you're down. And thank you very

696
00:37:06.280 --> 00:37:07.159
<v Speaker 4>much for your T shirt.

697
00:37:07.239 --> 00:37:08.480
<v Speaker 3>Appreciate it, all.

698
00:37:08.440 --> 00:37:12.559
<v Speaker 2>Right, word proudly, thanks Jen talk soon. Alrighty, all right.

699
00:37:13.360 --> 00:37:19.039
<v Speaker 2>I know Professor Grome that you had talked about the

700
00:37:19.159 --> 00:37:24.920
<v Speaker 2>challenges of celibacy in your own personal life, and that's

701
00:37:24.920 --> 00:37:27.000
<v Speaker 2>an issue that this pope may have to deal with

702
00:37:27.039 --> 00:37:28.079
<v Speaker 2>in some form of fashion.

703
00:37:29.239 --> 00:37:32.239
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, you would think, well, you see again, France has

704
00:37:32.280 --> 00:37:35.039
<v Speaker 3>often got things started but then didn't finish them out,

705
00:37:35.320 --> 00:37:37.440
<v Speaker 3>Like he had a huge Senate of the South American

706
00:37:37.559 --> 00:37:41.000
<v Speaker 3>Church back in twenty nineteen, and the South American Church

707
00:37:41.599 --> 00:37:46.000
<v Speaker 3>overwhelmingly in favor of the married priesthood and of restoring

708
00:37:46.079 --> 00:37:49.559
<v Speaker 3>priests who had resigned from priesthood to married to restore

709
00:37:49.599 --> 00:37:53.599
<v Speaker 3>them to the priesthood. And that passed and was endorsed

710
00:37:53.599 --> 00:37:58.400
<v Speaker 3>overwhelmingly by the churches of South America. But France has

711
00:37:58.440 --> 00:38:00.840
<v Speaker 3>never moved on it. See that is just there, so

712
00:38:01.320 --> 00:38:02.760
<v Speaker 3>that awaits the next pope.

713
00:38:03.079 --> 00:38:03.400
<v Speaker 2>Uh.

714
00:38:03.559 --> 00:38:06.119
<v Speaker 3>And and not just for South America, for other parts

715
00:38:06.159 --> 00:38:06.480
<v Speaker 3>of the world.

716
00:38:07.039 --> 00:38:09.960
<v Speaker 2>For whatever happens, it's it's gonna happen for the for

717
00:38:10.039 --> 00:38:11.360
<v Speaker 2>the church universal.

718
00:38:11.440 --> 00:38:14.719
<v Speaker 3>I would think, uh, yeah, you would think so that

719
00:38:14.760 --> 00:38:17.079
<v Speaker 3>it wouldn't be just confined to one area.

720
00:38:17.239 --> 00:38:19.800
<v Speaker 2>Professor Groom is always thank you so much for your time.

721
00:38:19.920 --> 00:38:22.079
<v Speaker 3>Thanks Dan, You're the only man. You're the only one

722
00:38:22.079 --> 00:38:23.480
<v Speaker 3>would keep me up this late at night.

723
00:38:23.960 --> 00:38:28.119
<v Speaker 2>Well, Uh, you're a fascinating person to talk with. I

724
00:38:28.280 --> 00:38:30.679
<v Speaker 2>know my audience learned a lot tonight. And I can't

725
00:38:30.679 --> 00:38:33.039
<v Speaker 2>thank you so much for your time and for your

726
00:38:33.119 --> 00:38:36.199
<v Speaker 2>service uh to uh to our world and to our

727
00:38:36.280 --> 00:38:36.559
<v Speaker 2>to us.

728
00:38:36.559 --> 00:38:40.639
<v Speaker 3>Thank you, thank you, yes, thank you, bye, thank you.

729
00:38:41.079 --> 00:38:43.679
<v Speaker 2>All right, we are gonna go to the News and

730
00:38:43.719 --> 00:38:45.920
<v Speaker 2>we're gonna get these phones straightened out and we'll be

731
00:38:45.960 --> 00:38:48.000
<v Speaker 2>back on Night's side right after this