Speaker 1: The best way to support this podcast is to go
to pictreon dot com slash Softcore History, where you get
two additional episodes every week on Wednesday and Friday, and
at this point a three year evergreen back catalog with hours,
days months of content to listen to.
Speaker 2: So go ahead and.
Speaker 1: Check out patreon dot com slash softcore History. Thank you.
Speaker 2: This week on Softcore History, we are joined by the
author of the social media detox tigue, Duly Panco, to
talk about how social media scares are not unique to
the twenty first century, but have in fact existed as
long as the printing press. From scandalous pamphlets about witches
to CD novels about romance, information has never not been
dangerous to the youth and women in society. Enjoy the show.
Speaker 3: Welcome to Softcore.
Speaker 2: History, What is up? Welcome back to Softcore History. I
am your host for the week, Rob Fox, joined as
always by Dan Jester.
Speaker 1: Thank you for having me on your show.
Speaker 2: Rob, It's so good. It's always a pleasure. Now lately.
Speaker 1: What's going on with Dan in twenty twenty five? Yeah,
big things, big things, Rob golf bets, it doesn't matter. Okay,
great things, better things coming down the pipeline. Sure, I
want to keep it close to the best.
Speaker 2: Okay, yeah, you don't want to tell the people there's
there's a lot reason to.
Speaker 1: Talk on a podcast, and no strong silence side.
Speaker 2: Strong silent type plays well on the mic for sure.
We are joined by a very special guest today and
out of the box leftfield guests, not one of our regulars.
Speaker 1: We have.
Speaker 2: A woman of many talents, but she's here for one
thing in particular. Tige Julie Panko. Yay, so happy to
have you on the show.
Speaker 3: I'm so happy to be here.
Speaker 2: Your resume is is? I was like kind of going
over it.
Speaker 1: I mean the name alone fills up a good bit
of the resume.
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, there's a lot going up
whole top line.
Speaker 2: Do people pronounce your name wrong a lot?
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, I've heard it all. T Tiggy taj was
one of my favorite iterations. Yeah, and sometimes I'm just like, yes,
that sounds good. I do feel bad it's not really
spelled phonetically correctly, so if if someone does say it wrong, like,
it's not your fault.
Speaker 2: Right now.
Speaker 1: Is definitely more exotic.
Speaker 2: I like, you're Brazilian. If I feel like, yeah, yeah,
I mean it sounds like a singular named a mono
named Brazilian soccer.
Speaker 1: Player, at least racially ambiguous.
Speaker 2: That too, Yeah, taj Is could be literally anyone from
any part of the world.
Speaker 3: Yeah, but cool.
Speaker 2: Yeah, oh yeah, unbiguously cool. But you're here before you
for the reason you're here. Yeah, I was gonna say, uh,
just like thinking about your your sort of your resume
or whatever. It's very impressive and vague eclectic. I feel like,
because you are a former Laker girl, did you try
out for the Dallas Cowboy cheerleaders? I did you want
the show?
Speaker 4: I did.
Speaker 3: I was on the show. I was crying a lot
on the show, and I made it to the last
round and was cut. But then two weeks later tried
out for Lakers and then god that worked out because
I was losing my mind.
Speaker 1: Probably for the best. I think the Cowboys cheerleaders make
like ten thousand dollars a year.
Speaker 3: I think it's less than that. But you know, I'm
super happy that I ended up in LA. I do
love Dallas. It would have been so sick if that
worked out. Yeah, it just didn't work out at the time.
Speaker 2: Yeah, former Laker Girl, which, by the way, you parlayed
into being a star of Winning Time on HBO.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 3: When they announced that that show was happening, I was like,
there's no way I'm not working on that show. So
I like went Gangbuster trying to figure out how to
get on, and I figured it out.
Speaker 1: Rejected by Dallas, moved on to La Yeah, you're the
Luca Dogs.
Speaker 3: Yes I am, thank you, Dallas.
Speaker 2: Did you went to bigger and better?
Speaker 4: Yeah?
Speaker 3: And my paychecks don't look similar, but but yes, who does?
Speaker 2: Yeah to Lucas and then uh, you also do a
lot of TV hosting for the NBA, so well entertainment stuff.
But also if you follow Tigue on Instagram, which I recommend,
I feel like Lebron James is on your stories every day.
But what I mean by that it's like Lebron James
is like eight feet away from you.
Speaker 1: Yeah, okay, I have beaf with you already. Why me
and Lebron have this thing that goes back to when
I was sixteen?
Speaker 3: Happened? Did he beat you up?
Speaker 1: I went to Lebron James Basketball Academy up his spirit?
Speaker 2: He did?
Speaker 1: He said, he squashed my soul?
Speaker 3: Oh no, what happened.
Speaker 1: Just stood up in front of the whole camp and
he kind of clown me.
Speaker 2: What did he say to you?
Speaker 1: Again? They handed me the microphone, asked a question because
of Q and A, and he's just like, nah, dog
not you passed the mic. I forgot that.
Speaker 3: So you didn't even get a question out?
Speaker 1: No, as I you know, just sixteen, coming into my
own you're here trying to figure out what I was
in this world right about to ask my you know,
I don't even know what the question was, but about
to ask probably the most groundbreaking question.
Speaker 2: Of that you've never heard before.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, right, he just told me the past the
mic and to sit my ass down.
Speaker 3: You know what, that's a good story.
Speaker 1: So now it's my life goal to tell Lebron James
to sit down. I don't care I have to be
a waiter, but I'll do it.
Speaker 2: No, we figured out he's gonna have to be like
an orderly in a hospital when Lebron is like ninety.
Speaker 3: Right, that's not a bad way.
Speaker 2: That's the only way, mister James. Take a seat, mister James,
police back down. You're not healthy enough to get out
of it.
Speaker 1: I'm playing the long game.
Speaker 3: Yeah, play the long game.
Speaker 2: And all you built like a hospital orderly, So yeah,
that's all you need. He there's no training for it.
Speaker 1: No, I just got to restrain and put.
Speaker 2: On You don't even need to do it, just get
a find out when he's in the hospital, put on
the uniform.
Speaker 1: One day, a ninety year old Lebron will still be
hold and I'll also be older.
Speaker 2: Yeah, you'll be like eighty four, but I.
Speaker 1: Think I'll probably be in better shape by then.
Speaker 3: I maybe, who knows, You'll probably still be playing in
the NBA.
Speaker 2: So yeah, no joke. But your most recent thing that
you've done is you're now an author. You wrote The
Social Media Detox. I did, so let's just die it.
I'm sorry, what was the title, the Social Media Detox?
Speaker 1: This is awkward? Why do you know how we make
a living?
Speaker 3: I know it is a little bit ironic, and it's
really ironic promoting it because obviously the only way I
am promoting it is on social media. But you have
to meet the people where they are. So that's kind
of what I've been saying, right, But.
Speaker 2: Just pay someone to do it. You never check.
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's really I try to like compartmentalize it. And
not stress about it being on social but you have
to do it.
Speaker 2: I mean, where else are you gonna stop ingesting the poison?
Why would you go? Why would you go to a
place where people aren't addicted to heroin and try to
get them unaddicted from heroin?
Speaker 3: That's the It's like you gotta just you gotta just
sneak in, right, yes, sneak attacks.
Speaker 2: Like, hey, do you hate this? Do you want to quit?
How how dark did your social media addiction get?
Speaker 3: You know, it got dark, It got dark like a
lot of you know, as we were discussing, I was
a Laker Girl and I've done a lot of stuff
in entertainment, and so much of my job and identity
was tied to you know, those jobs, and so like
it was like posting on social media and that's how
I felt relevant. And you know, especially when I was
done with Laker Girls, I just noticed like I was
filling that void a lot, yeah, with social media. So
I was like addicted to social media. I was addicted
to like what people thought of.
Speaker 2: Me, and more so on the posting side.
Speaker 3: On the posting side, and just like because a lot I.
Speaker 2: Feel a lot of people are like just scrolling.
Speaker 3: Addicted, scrolling addicted, But like I think I was just
I was always like upset, like I was always seeing
people's job emotions and like getting married and like having kids.
I just felt like like just overwhelmed all the time,
and like I feel like I started making decisions in
my life based on like what it would on social media,
which then I was like, I gotta figure something out
because this is crazy. Like I'm like basing trips and
like friendships off of what it would look like online,
and that's insane and so yeah, so that's when I
started to be like, maybe I should look into like
finding solutions for myself. And then I started finding solutions
for myself. And then I started talking to my nieces
who are young qutibituities, like sixteen thirteen, and they're also.
Speaker 4: Fucking in it in it.
Speaker 2: That was the word. So I thought about this at
one point, probably when I was saying about my kids,
maybe even before that, but I was like, man, I
remember me in high school and being like, I wonder
if I suck, you know what I mean? Answer was
probably yes, but I was still but it was probably yes.
But the thing is it was probably yes, but I
couldn't know for sure, right, but if you're on social media,
there's almost a metric to be like, dude, you blow
and no one likes you.
Speaker 3: Yes, isn't it crazy?
Speaker 1: Yeah?
Speaker 3: And like yeah, I talked to a lot of people
obviously when I was making this book, and I talked
to some like high school principals and you know, middle
school principles, and they were saying, like, you know, kids nowadays,
like when we were growing up, if you had a bully,
you had a bully at school and then you went
home and you were safe. Right now, it's like maybe.
Speaker 2: For you, my dad was my bully.
Speaker 3: Okay, fair, But like now these kids, like these bullies
come home with them and then they're in their pocket,
you know, and they're like these this this stuff never ends,
Like the cyber bullying so bad, and like the comparison
never ends, especially like these kids like before they're going
through puberty. It's like so scary and dangerous and it's
a it's a wild world we're living in and we
just didn't know what we were doing, like handling these
kids these weapons, and so now we have to.
Speaker 1: Deal with it, and now we have to monetize Rob's kids. Yes, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah,
we like to just this. The world's not changing, Okay,
we need to take advantage, we know, we.
Speaker 2: Like to jet that that it used to be like
in the Middle Ages or whatever, even like the eighteen hundreds. Yeah,
you had kids, and so they could work on your farm.
Right now, they work the fields of your content farm. Abbit,
Absolutely content farmers.
Speaker 3: It's kind of sad like some of the like mommy
bloggers that like make a living off of like putting
their kids online and.
Speaker 1: Like what we're looking for the next costco family.
Speaker 3: Like it's crazy, right, yeah, Like could you imagine growing
up like that and your mom being like, hey, no,
do it again, do it again. It wasn't cute enough.
Speaker 2: You put that toy in a way.
Speaker 1: You Look, there's a natural progression to all this, and
it all leads to celebrity boxing for the kids. Yes,
you event your child internet star and you eventually become
a celebrity boxer.
Speaker 2: Yeah. I mean, like the rizzler is going to be
extremely destitute at some point and fighting people for money
on television almost feels progression. Yeah, yeah, like one one
to the other.
Speaker 1: So this is as much a change, it's just a
freak shill, right.
Speaker 2: And so how before we get into the historical topic
today that that mirrors your your expertise here, what how
long it takes you to write the book? Like when
did You're like, I'm just gonna sit down and did
you detox? And then you're like, oh that worked.
Speaker 3: Yeah, Like I tried a bunch of different stuff. So
I talked to a bunch of different doctors therapists, and
like I tried a bunch of it's basically a bunch
of mindfulness exercises, okay, so like to get yourself like
off of your phone. So yeah, I tried a bunch
and then I started writing it probably like a year ago,
and I have like changed it a million times, and
like even after I released it, like I don't know,
a week or two weeks ago. Whenever I did that,
I had a panic attack in the middle of night.
It was like I need to change a page, so
I like changed So yeah, you know, the cool thing
about self publishing is you can do that. You can
like go in and like change something and then just
republish it.
Speaker 2: So oh that's it.
Speaker 3: That's been cool.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Wait, you didn't go to a wellness to retreat
in like Costa Rica.
Speaker 3: No, I didn't and I didn't do like ayahuasca hyahuasca.
You would think that that would have been something I did.
Speaker 4: I'm not. No, we would posted that.
Speaker 2: I would actually immediately disinvite you off the steps if
you had done ayahuaska like it. Can't do, can't do
what that did?
Speaker 3: Why not? You're scared of it? Are you scared of
like what you're gonna find out about yourself?
Speaker 2: Oh?
Speaker 1: Yeah, I don't need to the demon within. He doesn't
want on leave in.
Speaker 3: A cage for a reason. Yeah, are you kidding me?
No one wants to see that I was a monster.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and I've buried it so deep down.
Speaker 1: Can they say, and all these drugs kind of kill
the ego. No, I mean it kills one of the
egos and then like a phoenix rising from the ashes
because they much.
Speaker 2: Ego. Yeah, so I'm keeping that monster in his cage
for a long time. Maybe once the kids are out
of high.
Speaker 3: School, then you'll rebrand.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, they'll go to college, you'll divorce your wife. Well,
it'll start dating a nineteen year old.
Speaker 2: I mean, look, we can't predict the future.
Speaker 1: I can I just called it. Yeah, you're going to
get like a Miata that has a soft top.
Speaker 2: Yeah, definitely a soft top YadA. I'm a real I'm
a real convertible guy, a sunshine guy too. I'm definitely
not getting pieces.
Speaker 1: Of maybe from I could see it hoopering on you.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, we'll see what this style is at
the time. I just want to fit in with the kids.
At that point, I can't predict what twenty forty one away.
Speaker 1: Iranfully, you won't be able to grow any facial hair still,
So no flavor, savor, no beer.
Speaker 2: No beer to like hide my age. I will just
be like be all drooped to nothing to distract it.
But yeah, So one thing we like to talk about
on the show a lot is uh or one thing
that amuses us a lot is how and this kind
of plays into social media how like narcissistic? The present
generation always is like the present generation, this one, last two, whatever,
current three in particular, are always like, oh, what's happening
to us is so unique, It's never happened before.
Speaker 1: It's always the end of the world.
Speaker 2: Do you with stuff? Yeah, Oh, every generation think it
is the end of the world. If you go look
like through any time in the Middle Ages, every single
generation was like, oh, Jesus is coming in like six years,
don't you know that, Like the world is gonna end,
Like the Turks are about to take Vienna, the world
is over.
Speaker 1: Why didn't try Let's just kind of kick back, see
what happens.
Speaker 2: But what's funny when you even like, uh, go through
history at like a cursory glance, which is all we do.
This is softcore history. It's not hardcore history, thank god?
Speaker 1: Yeah is uh.
Speaker 2: You find very quickly that, as we like to say,
shit don't change, right, And there's always a comp like
it's there's always a situation where it's like, oh, people
have gone through nearly this exact thing before, like a
good one with right now everyone's kind of freaking about
freaking out about AI, which is not wrong. But let's
say it's the same type of stuff you heard not
only during the industry revolution when things are getting automated
and when things are getting automated, but also even like
when writing was invented, people were like, oh, your people's
brains won't work anymore because they're writing things down. They
don't have to remember anything.
Speaker 3: Wow, that's crazy.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's they were like, oh, writing is going to
ruin the human brain.
Speaker 1: Wow, or video games are ruining the youth. They used
to be reading books, read in.
Speaker 2: Books, which we are going to talk about today. God
damn it. But yeah, yeah, spoiler, I guess the novel
the novel panic. We'll get to that. That's probably the
funniest thing.
Speaker 1: We're so syncd up right now.
Speaker 2: We're just yeah, we're locked in.
Speaker 3: It's really nice to see.
Speaker 2: I appreciate that.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's good. Two brains.
Speaker 1: So this is actually produced. It's an AI podcast.
Speaker 3: And you guys are robots.
Speaker 4: Yeah, and this is fun.
Speaker 2: So one thing I assume you dealt with when you
were writing it or think and even just thinking about
it before you wrote your book or anything like that,
is how relatively unique social media was, Like A, I'm
sure you had this thought, like a humans aren't equipped
for this sort of thing, this much information, absolutely, like
it's not our monkey brains, like our literal monkey brains
are not. We just walked out of the forest in
terms of like geoloto geological timescale, We just fucking walked
out of the forest. And now we have like a
blue light in front of us giving us more information
than some human beings would consume for their entire lives
eight hundre years ago.
Speaker 3: Isn't that crazy? Yeah?
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's it is, and it is. It's that none
of what I just said is wrong. But what's fucked
up is.
Speaker 1: You weren't in Atlantis fifteen.
Speaker 2: Thousand years ago. I don't know what they were doing.
Speaker 1: You weren't in the five D. You don't know. I
don't know where the great civilization fell. They were better
than us, and we will repeat the history if we
don't change our ways.
Speaker 2: That's that's what we're doing here, changing the world, slowly
but surely so. Social media yeah, certainly unique, but it
is actually not obviously not the first time that I
guess what you would call like democratized widespread information by
the people for the people has happened. This is actually
something that we touched on a little bit on your
episode about that island a week or two ago, the High.
Speaker 1: Brazil, Hi Brazili, Patreon.
Speaker 2: This is actually what is affecting people. Certain things that
are affecting people on social media is actually as old
as the printing.
Speaker 3: Press itself, right, I was thinking about that so.
Speaker 1: In fourteen forty I always think about it.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I was just thinking newspapers.
Speaker 2: Yeah, pop daily even before newspaper, in fact, newspapers or
even though newspapers have been like dogshit through most of
human history. We done a great did a great episode
on that a couple of years ago about how people
today are like, oh, the media is terrible. We're like meat.
It's actually always been terrible. It's always been a red
It's like a thirty year window with like Walter Cronkite
where it was like sophy and nice, but for the
most part it's just been red. Like it really, we're
actually just getting back to normal here.
Speaker 1: Thinking kron Kite wasn't a sigh of.
Speaker 2: But as soon as Gutenberg invented the printing press, the
first form of social media almost immediately took hold, and
it was arguably, and only because we've had enough time,
hilariously more destructive than current social media. The invention of
the printing press directly led to something called the pamphlet craze.
So pamphlets are essentially analog Twitter, Love me a good pamphlet?
Speaker 3: You know, yes, keep going, But I feel like I
remember this in history class.
Speaker 2: Yeah, like so Gutenberger vans spring press. Yeah, and it
gets spread around and it's you know, it's a bitch technically,
but way easier than it ever was before. And so
immediately what happened.
Speaker 1: That's all the gossip spreads. Though I remember Hamilton when
they found out that he was cheating on his wife.
Speaker 2: Pamphlets, pamphlets, pamphlet flets, pamphlets for centuries now. Eventually people
got used to it and they stopped like freaking out
about it. But the first two hundred years especially, pamphlets
were like such. They were actually like new. There was
nothing like this before. Before pamphlets came out where basically
anyone could go to the old printer who will take
your money no matter what, like yeah, here buy this
cheap paper print whatever fucking crock pot ideas.
Speaker 1: And you had to respond with your own pamphlet. It
was almost like a disc track.
Speaker 2: It was tweeting. It was essentially tweeted. That's more of
a Twitter animal it was like, but it was it was.
It was like that on instcam to because you know
a lot of people Instagram is not just like oh
look at my beautiful vacation. People will share information, whether
it be like health or political or.
Speaker 1: Twitter's for Duncan on people. It's like, I I hate you,
I hate your opinion. You're you're the opposition. I need
to embarrass you.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's what Twitter's for now, and that's what pamphlets
were kind of always for. So I liked to I
wrote this dramatically, so i'm's gonna read it verbatim.
Speaker 1: Okay.
Speaker 2: One could say that Johannes Gutenberg's preferred ink to print
in was blood.
Speaker 1: Mm hmmm.
Speaker 2: A lot of deaths came from this. Gutenberg's invention enabled
cheap pamphlets. Pamphlets flooded throughout all of Europe, in every
Western other country, spread ideas, gossip, propaganda, blah blahlah blah,
the normal shit you see on social media now. And
people were obsessed with it because it was written very colloquial, colloquially,
you know, like in It wasn't like formal of the
formal version of the language or Latin, which was a
big thing at the time. It was just whatever shitty
version of German or English they spoke it was. They
could read it. It was on their level, you know what
I mean.
Speaker 1: I have the Eli Whitney effect where he thought it
would make the world.
Speaker 2: A better place, and it made it. Yeah, he was
like the Eli Whitney was like, I'm invent the cotton gin,
and that's going to like end slavery because we got
this machine to do it. And then it somehow just
made it much worse because they're like, oh, we need
more people to get the cotton because this cotton gin
so fucking good at deceating the cotton. Poor guy had
his heart in the right place, right, but it didn't
didn't go as plan. I don't even know that Gutenberg
had a heart in the right place. He was just
like I invented this. Here you go a fun of fit. Yeah,
but uh, because God, because the only thing God loves
more than his children is irony. What happened with this
first social media? And you know one of the worst
things about social media now is you know, cancel bobs
or a thing, right, like people just pile on.
Speaker 1: Not anymore, we're so bad.
Speaker 2: Yeah, all this stuff, if you know, you get you
get shipped on for not being pure enough in whatever
group you're in, no matter what it is.
Speaker 1: Right, loose guy.
Speaker 2: Right now, I can't even I haven't even I'm not
doing another app, Like I'm just fucking I'm not social
media detox, but I'm not getting a fucking another one.
That's what I was like, Please make TikTok illegal.
Speaker 1: No, that's what I felt with TikTok. I'm just like
as soon as it started, I'm like, no, I've done
all the social media that I need to do. Yeah,
I'm not.
Speaker 3: He is too good.
Speaker 2: You go down a te hole.
Speaker 3: They know you better than they know me better than
that I know myself.
Speaker 2: There are there are times I'll just think about something, yeah,
and it'll come up.
Speaker 3: Isn't that crazy? It's crazy? But I will say it
has changed recently. I don't feel like it's the same.
Like I'm not saying the same stuff, trying to be.
Speaker 2: More benevolent because they're still like, no, it's been a
holding pattern. Trump like, uh, he put it off. It's
not It could still be made illegal and there are
a lot of people in both parties that do not
want it here. So my personal assumption is that it's
probably going to be gone.
Speaker 3: Yeah, who knows that.
Speaker 2: Would be mine. I hope it does. I just don't
want it anymore.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: I like reels too.
Speaker 3: Do you think you just can't get a you can't
produce a good TikTok.
Speaker 2: Is that why you're that's probably I'm not.
Speaker 1: We haven't figured out the attraction, TikTok.
Speaker 2: The youngs hate us.
Speaker 1: We really do.
Speaker 3: You guys need is a few viral clips and you're good.
I know, right, I mean I'm saying that like I've
done that. I haven't done that. Well, some comedy stuff
has okay, yeah, some stand up stuff, but I haven't
gotten into They.
Speaker 2: Hate podcast clips all all the social media platforms hate
podcasts as soon as they see a microphone in front
of your face. Like no, absolutely not, like maybe if
there's a famous person on there. Yeah, but like it
was just us too. Yeah, I think we. I think
we like maxed out at like ten thoughts.
Speaker 1: Well I need to do is pop top and just
steal every workout from bodybuilding dot com. Yeah, and then
just repost it as my own.
Speaker 2: I would say, get on the gap. Actually you you
were a fitness instructure too. I think we're here.
Speaker 4: Yeah it was, Yeah, what can he do to?
Speaker 3: You should start jumping on a trampoline.
Speaker 1: I love a trampoline.
Speaker 3: Yeah, great workout. Not enough people are doing it online.
Really good for you.
Speaker 1: Getting slam ball, bring back my basketball career.
Speaker 3: That's a good idea. You can make it competitive.
Speaker 2: Nobody wants to watch someone in slam ball shoot threes.
Speaker 1: I'm gonna I'm gonna change the game. I'm gonna be
the Steph Curry of slam ball.
Speaker 2: There is no dunking, just all threes from a trampoline
eighty feet away.
Speaker 1: I would do that in NBA jam, the old school game. Yeah, people,
it would infuriate every college roommate I had, like, you
can't threes and.
Speaker 2: Jam, Like, no, I'm just doing that. So here's the
funny thing about the pamphlet craze. Yeah, is so like
I said, you know, there's cancel mobs coming on and
all this stuff. What do we call that? What's a
like a term for that? A witch hunt? Right?
Speaker 3: You?
Speaker 2: Witch hunted on social media? They want to look for
you whatever. The pample craze literally created witch hunts. No really, yeah,
that the direct result of the printing press was witch hunts.
The witch hunt explosion in Europe happened as soon as
pamphlets started being printed. Over the course of the next
three hundred years, there are no Salem witch trials without
the pamphlet craze. There are no uh whatever. The other
witch trials in England where for at the name of
or and everywhere in Europe, literally everywhere in Europe pamphlets.
Speaker 1: I think Germany one year burned like nine hundred witches.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and witches were just people, by the way.
Speaker 1: Yeah, we don't know that.
Speaker 2: We don't know how many real witches we got. I
think it was mostly people, but.
Speaker 1: I think we got a few, just by the sheer numbers.
Speaker 2: One would have to think it seems out racist to
say we got no witches.
Speaker 3: Yeah, you would hope at that point, because that's bad.
Speaker 2: So one of the things pamphlets did. So pamphlets again,
they were for the common people. And this is the
type of thing where like I normally am very like, yeah,
like liberty by the people for the people, like everyone
deserves the voice, and then you read something like this
and you're just like, oh, man, I might be really
classist after reading this, like this is awful.
Speaker 1: Because you always feel about what you just stare at
me and you're like.
Speaker 2: They essentially all these pamphlets did was appeal to the
lowest common denominator and what gets people excited, right, dark shit,
sexual shit, conspiracy theories, which whitches, witches, witches, and that
ship played emediately not only that now, which is we're
already a thing right like people thought, which is what
it was mostly held to clergy and and sort of
like anyone running a city or running a country or
a church or whatever. It was mostly held like kept
to them. They had knowledge of what a witch might be,
and you know, witch trials and start with pamphlets, but
they exploded with pamphlets because they essentially told everyone about
what witches were and.
Speaker 3: Very much what they were just describing a woman.
Speaker 2: Yeah, more or less. Yeah, but like a single woman.
Speaker 3: A single woman with a hat on a cat and
a hat.
Speaker 1: It was really hard to get a divorce back then,
so it's much easier to just say.
Speaker 2: It was a witch. Yeah, yeah, be like, take such
a bitch, you might be a.
Speaker 4: Witch, probably a witch.
Speaker 3: And I'm going to put it in the printing poison
in my food.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm yeah, you get you tell some guy like
you're not interested at the pub and yeah, he takes
two cents to the printing.
Speaker 3: Press the next day and as I'm a witch.
Speaker 2: Yeah he saw you p had a cat, five and
five other people saw you pet that cat. Too on
the way out of the pub.
Speaker 1: You're a slippery slow Hey wow, we still have those technically,
h there's female Facebook pages for dating and apps. It's like,
are we diding the same guy?
Speaker 3: My favorite? Have you guys seen them?
Speaker 2: I have not?
Speaker 3: What, Oh it's so good. You've never heard of this, rob.
Speaker 2: No.
Speaker 1: Girls will just post your regardless whether or not you're
an honorable man or not.
Speaker 2: If you got nothing to hide, man, that's fine.
Speaker 1: But yeah, they'll talk shit.
Speaker 3: Girls will post like a picture of a guy on
that maybe they matched with or maybe they've gone on
some dates with on the like are we dating the
same guy? And like each city has their own, so
like La has a big one, and like they'll be like, hey,
I went on a few dates with this guy, like
I think things are getting serious. Just want to make
sure he's not taken. Like four girls, yeah, four girls.
In the comments, we'll be like I know that guy,
like I'm dating him too, or like whatever, and like
that's how its like, and that's how it goes down.
Speaker 1: These girls are potstairs. They don't even talk to that man.
Speaker 3: It's the pamphlets, yeah, yeah, yeah, some of them are bots.
Some of them are just trying to stir up some people.
Speaker 2: Or just like troll. They're just like, yeah, I know him,
I know him.
Speaker 3: He was at my house last night.
Speaker 1: Yeah, we've been dead him for four years.
Speaker 3: Yeah. It's like Maury, but like on Facebook perfect Oh.
Speaker 2: Yeah, take out any producers or even like whatever minimal
fact Morey did. It's just by a committee, by a
committee of.
Speaker 1: And why would this stranger people? Yeah, why why would
they lie? I'm gonna take her word for it.
Speaker 2: It's just funny. I guess they just what I'm saying,
throw dynamite into a pod.
Speaker 1: Every girl that posts there and she gets responses is
just gonna immediately trust whatever that girl says.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it is weird. Have you been posted?
Speaker 1: I've never been posted, But are you sure?
Speaker 2: Yeah?
Speaker 1: Well, actually I don't know, but I know of the groups.
Speaker 2: What was a man? There was a fucking thing when
we worked at TFM. You were probably in college. There
was an app that literally just rated men, like all
men were on it. Yeah, and it was like I
remember everything from like nice good in bed, like there
was like a star like I think it was like it.
Speaker 1: Wasn't I think it was called like Lulu.
Speaker 2: I remember hearing.
Speaker 3: About it, but I never, like, I never actually saw
it in practice.
Speaker 1: I was actually posted on that.
Speaker 4: I was too did you guys do?
Speaker 3: What was your reading?
Speaker 2: I had a good rating because all the girls that
worked at Total Sorority Move were like, we're trotting all
your shit out in front of everyone right now, just
to like shame us in the office. And I was like, but.
Speaker 1: This was happening when I was in college. When we
were in school, they had Lulu and I just had
all my female friends just like hype me up.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think it was Lu. I think it was
Lulu Wow. And it was like that feels illegal, hyper invasive.
Speaker 3: Yeah, that feels wrong, and like you could probably see
someone for defamation.
Speaker 2: I mean that doesn't exist anymore.
Speaker 1: There was collegiate ACB. There was Yak yak. There was
all these apps where you could just talk shit anonymously.
Speaker 2: Like hyper anonymously.
Speaker 3: Yik yak is mean, I don't remember yak was that
like Reddit?
Speaker 2: Actually? You know it was weird? Is that? Uh? Yik
Yak wasn't big at Mazoo. It was there was that
one that was just at Maszoo. It was really big.
Was a collegiate ac big Rounder or something like that
or I don't even remember. It was a mazo kid
invented it like a bunch. I remember, like I knew
guys that were still in school and they were like, yeah,
we use this for everything. I was like, what the
fuck is this?
Speaker 3: Wow? Schools yeah, chap, but wow.
Speaker 2: Yeah. It was very odd.
Speaker 1: A lot of it though, was Greek left just talking
shit on each other.
Speaker 2: Yes, right, yeah, which was nice until.
Speaker 1: These fucking houses are a bunch of squids.
Speaker 2: I remember one time I just start dating this girl
and a thread came up on whatever Missoo's version of
that was, and it was like who the ugliest couples
in Greek Town? And someone put our names on. It's like,
what the fuck?
Speaker 3: Oh my god, the pamphlets, I know they got you again.
Speaker 1: It was fucking pamphleteers.
Speaker 2: Damn. That's bad out for like a day because I
never shop.
Speaker 3: It was really upsetting.
Speaker 4: Do that do that right?
Speaker 3: Yeah? Sometimes you have ops and you just don't know,
and like on an app like that, you will find
out quickly.
Speaker 1: I know when I'm getting you and Courtney for the
baby shower. What a print out of that couple of
shirts ugliest couple at Miszoo. It wasn't Courtney, so we
wouldn't date at Missoo still applies Courtney.
Speaker 2: Both went Courtney's sorority sister, but it wasn't Courtney.
Speaker 1: So it was Yeah, I'm sure that's a fun conversation
now with your wife.
Speaker 2: She doesn't care married her. Yeah, and we didn't like
cheat or anything. We met. It was like years later.
It was a very lot of Kapa Kapa Gamma drapa.
Speaker 3: Oh God, chose a kappa? Yeah, me too?
Speaker 2: What boom? Yeah, yeah, she's a zoo kappa.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, I like already at my school, they're the
Krispy Kreme girls.
Speaker 3: Krispy Kreme Girls. No, that's rude.
Speaker 2: I know. I'm not saying did you write that on
your pamphlet, but it was.
Speaker 1: Probably on the Collegiate ACB website.
Speaker 3: Wow, you would have gotten some down votes for saying that.
Speaker 2: I know.
Speaker 1: Yeah, now I'm just reporting the truth.
Speaker 3: Cream girls. You know what, Honestly, that's a fun group
to be though, even if you're the Christy Creme Girls,
that sounds like they have a good time.
Speaker 1: They were fun.
Speaker 2: I think it was just Kapa Kapa grandma, Oh.
Speaker 3: Kapa Kapa Grandma was, and you know what, I wore
that proudly. I was like, yeah, like, what are you
talking about. We're all overachievers and we like work.
Speaker 2: Hard, modest and like fairly like modest. Yeah, like shit
like not you know, I like just blast in Eliza
cocaine on the bar Big twelve or.
Speaker 3: The vibe.
Speaker 2: Yeah, no, it was not at all. Yeah, it's fine, oppos.
Speaker 1: There was no reason for us to throw stones from
our glass house either, were uf was a bunch of goobs.
Shall all my brother's lessening right now? I appreciate you.
Speaker 2: So. One of the big things about this pamphlet that
helped the witch trials explode was that it kind of
standardized what to look for in a witch. Right, Okay,
so in much the same way I guess people might
be annoyed at social media Instagram in particular, TikTok probably
too for maybe like this goes back to magazines even
but like standardizing beauty or whatever. Yeah, I mean kind
of like the trends get really narrow and stuff like that. This, Yeah,
the standardized witches. So everyone knew what a fucking witch was. Wow,
and boy were they excited to go hunting for them.
Speaker 3: I do you have a question before we move on.
Was there any sort of men that were being accused
of being which is a verse?
Speaker 1: They ever read the Cricible Witch?
Speaker 3: No?
Speaker 1: Yes, the main character in the Crucible is a man
that is accused of being a witch.
Speaker 3: Really so okay, I was I was just John.
Speaker 2: I think, so, yeah, this is actually not in my notes,
but I did read this. Uh so I'm glad I
remembered it. A lot of the female witch stereotype is
mostly confined to the Anglo world. Okay, so like English,
like England and then all Dutchess kind of like Anglo
adjacent and so like England, the Netherlands, and there's one
other country I forgot what it was where it was
like ninety percent women being accused and stuff like that. However,
France was pretty fifty to fifty. Uh Eastern Europe was
mostly men. I think Germany might have been pretty fifty
to fifty two. But we because it's our culture, Heaven especially,
and because we did mostly persecute women like our specific
like sort of sphere of culture back then. That's why
it sticks with us.
Speaker 1: Although our favorite witch from the Salem Witch Trials was
an old man.
Speaker 2: That got crushed to death by rocks. Yeah, so most
witches and the Salem witch trials got hanged, but there
was one man who was the husband of a witch
who I think had already been executed. I'm not sure
she definitely did get executed. So were like you're a
witch too, aren't you, buddy? And he was like he's
just old and crotchety, and he's like he's like old.
He's like no, and they're like, just admit it so
we can hang you. And he was and like it'll
be a peaceful ish death, and they're like, he's like,
I'm not a witch.
Speaker 1: So every time he denied it, they put another rock on.
Speaker 2: Him and he was eventually crushed to death. But he
was just too old and angry to admit it. Well
because he wasn't and he was like I'm not admitting this.
Speaker 1: Fuck you guy. He's the most metal man of all time.
Speaker 3: Actually, so crazy because like they were none of them
were witches, were normal people. We were just like, you're
there's no way to prove that, like that's insane. Do
you think we can get to like that type of
of today?
Speaker 1: Yes?
Speaker 3: What would it be? People are?
Speaker 2: Who knows? Maybe eventually when AI gets better.
Speaker 4: Just accused, it's like being a robot.
Speaker 3: Yeah yeah, you're like you're a robot, you're synth, you're synthetic,
you're Oh my gosh.
Speaker 1: Is that there's also you're gonna be able to just
create video evidence that isn't real, right, Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2: Rob killed all those dogs. Slaughter wasn't even near a
dog today, like getting did.
Speaker 3: What a crazy world it would be, and it probably
will be at some point where like it's really difficult
to tell what's real and what's not. I mean even now,
like Instagram, like, there are like influencers like.
Speaker 1: Hot ai answers.
Speaker 3: That are AI like and they look real.
Speaker 2: We'll check it out. You can tell that same fucking
thing was happening then, because I love this podcast, they
would put a lot of time for the witches. These
dumb dumbs wouldn't even read, even though I was actually
shocked to learn that the literacy rate in England sixteen
thirty was like seventy percent. That would not have guess.
Speaker 1: But back to your point, though, there's AI influencers now
that have only fans.
Speaker 3: How what are they doing? I'm the only fans.
Speaker 1: Dude just makes images, just makes fake images and images money.
There's some that there's are like big AI accounts. It's weird.
I don't understand why you would follow it.
Speaker 2: I respectful. That is just ethically sourced pornography.
Speaker 1: That's a dude, that's hustling.
Speaker 3: I mean that is ethically sourced.
Speaker 1: Who's getting hurt Nobody?
Speaker 3: Yeah, except all the women in the world that are
now being compared to a robot. But that's fine, So
that's cool, yeah, or being replaced, Like I don't know
if you guys, I don't want a tangent too much,
but have you guys seen the stories about men who
have started dating these like chatbots or like ben in
or getting in relationships physical relationships with.
Speaker 1: Like actual robots the movie.
Speaker 3: Physical Relationships Relationships with physical robots. So like it's like
replacing common people. Yeah, which I don't you know that glo,
some of those guys can At.
Speaker 2: What point I don't wanna get to. Uh. I don't
know how like X rated your sense of humor is,
But at what point would uh see if you you're married,
you walk it on your husband and he's with a robot,
but it is it's a machine, Like what what point
is like flashlight versus like, Hello, my name is Helen.
I am a robot.
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's weird, right, Like, I don't know. I mean
in a way, it's not even that offensive because it's like, well,
we can put her in the closet, Like, it doesn't
really she's not really doing much.
Speaker 1: I think they're making robots now too that have to consent, which.
Speaker 4: Seems to defeat Uh.
Speaker 2: Interesting, Yeah, is that just like a for their own Like.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I guess it's just for like them. Like, we're
not going to totally mess up everybody, right right, We're
going to make sure they know how to ask.
Speaker 2: Still, now, what if you do? What do you do
when you put the robot in the closet and you
can clearly hear it, meaning in the middle of the.
Speaker 3: Night, Now, that would be a problem. I think I
burned the house down. I think that's when I moved
to another country and burn the house down.
Speaker 2: Yeah, you can't stay where that robot is.
Speaker 3: No, no, then starts choosing the robot over you. I
think that's gonna that would be.
Speaker 1: Yeah, Like I just feel it's kind of a thing now, right,
dudes just kind of choose porn over their wives. I
wouldn't know you wouldn't know, no, but that is a
big problem. I think with a lot of relationships, dudes
get too addicted to porn. Just their wife is like, hey.
Speaker 2: Maybe later, Well there's a lady right there.
Speaker 1: I know, but if there their wives just not into them,
there's like final, just go to the shower.
Speaker 2: That's grim.
Speaker 1: It's very grim.
Speaker 3: That's grim. But I do feel like, I mean, I
feel like that's been happening for a long time.
Speaker 1: It's getting progressively worse.
Speaker 2: I mean laptops.
Speaker 3: I mean, I have said, like I feel like guys
are just not even dating girls anymore. Like a lot
of guys in LA like don't even feel the need
to go out because they have all these things at
their fingertips, Like they can just go home, feel entertained,
video game, right, and then you know, like and feel
like they have some sort of connection with something.
Speaker 2: So the dating scene feels very grim in a lot
of way. Like I've not done it obviously, but I'll
like talk to friends who are still single and stuff
like that.
Speaker 3: Yeah, good lord, it's bad because you know, we all
know that we have these you know, these apps that
it's like one thing goes wrong, you're like well, I
got a few.
Speaker 2: Was that part of your book too? The dating apps?
Speaker 3: Part of the book is getting off of dating apps?
But I don't really dive into it too much, just
because I wanted to keep it. Yeah, kind of more
like you could kind of apply this to a lot
of different things. But but you know, it's definitely a problem.
Speaker 2: I mean it feels that I was only on it
like a little bit, Like I started acording twenty fifteen,
so I was on Tinder probably three four years to
Hinge Tender like.
Speaker 4: Two three years, three four years something like that, Okay.
Speaker 2: And it was just like, no, I didn't I never
even liked it, like I it better like.
Speaker 3: At a bar, right, that's what you want, you know, literally,
but now nobody can do Nobody can have a social
conversation in a bar. That's the problem, correct, So they
have to use the app.
Speaker 1: The easiest way though on the apps, though, is you
don't know how to do that anymore. You have to
act unhinged, like you stick out.
Speaker 3: Okay, now you gotta explain what.
Speaker 1: You mean, act like you're almost a sociopath.
Speaker 2: What what what's your line?
Speaker 3: That's a you could go either way.
Speaker 1: I always had like the most successful ass because I
always had like weird, crazy, funny answers, and I feel
like that just sticks out compared to what's on the apps.
Speaker 2: I mean, I guess it's better than like haa, I
don't know, like pizza, pizza, sweet pizza. Yeah.
Speaker 3: Yeah, Guys have to be more creative. Girls can just
be like I like a spa day. It doesn't really matter,
like I love you, Yeah, that's yeah.
Speaker 2: Do you like dinner?
Speaker 3: Yeah yeah, But guys do have to get creative. I agree,
being funny on the apps is.
Speaker 2: A huge key, so oh fun statye. These pamphlets led
to one hundred to two hundred thousand people being officially
tried as witches over the course like two three hundred years.
And by tried, I mean no, no, no, no, those are
just tried. But if you were tried, you were tortured.
That's how they got any confession basically was torture, or
at least threat of torture, like they'll start heating up
the iron and being like you a witch? Are you?
It's coming?
Speaker 3: But how did they actually decide because again, as we've discussed,
it's really just a human, So how do they distinguish.
Speaker 2: So at some point, you know how like you hear
now or here's a great example. You know, police will
have a speeding ticket quotas, right you witch quotas. You know,
you gotta find a witch. Someone told you, the bishop
told you to find a witch.
Speaker 3: You can find a witch, right right?
Speaker 2: Like ship rolls downhill, lady, I'm sorry, like you're on
fire or I'm on fire.
Speaker 1: You're a little too ugly for this town. Sorry, you
gotta go.
Speaker 2: You were a little to that guy who I agree
sucks but he reported you and nasty around.
Speaker 1: You're a woman, that's it. Yeah, you know, time's not
great for you.
Speaker 2: But what's crazy? So back to the AI thing. So
a lot of these dumb dumbs, even though they could read,
still were most enchanted or convinced by the A lot
of it would be called wood cuttings because essentially you
would draw it on the wood ink paper, right, so
it's woodcut and it would be let me just find
like a witch wood cutting. It would be obviously the
most dog shit drawing possible. But they would see it
and be like, oh, I think that's Sarah. That looks
exactly like Sarah. Here she is, look at it. That's
that's what Sarah looks like.
Speaker 3: Oh my god, yeah, that's definitely Sarah.
Speaker 2: That's Sarah. So boom, Like I mean the pictures alone.
They would see those pictures, those pictures and be like,
oh my god, that happened. Look, how could you draw
it if it didn't happen?
Speaker 3: Oh my gosh.
Speaker 2: All thanks to this brand new, wonderful social media. Yeah,
that created witch hunts and all kinds of other weird shit.
There were some other fun ones, so I'll get to
these before we get to the novel panic real quick,
because there were some I don't know, lighthearted's quite the
right word, but like some pamphlets were more fun.
Speaker 3: Than they were. Did they have parties? Did they? There
was like bread word on that.
Speaker 2: So there was one like meme pamphlet, pamphlet that I
really enjoyed that it sounds like memes. Basically, it's called
the Fifteen Joys of Marriage. Again to to show you
how much like social media this was. So imagine you know,
like today people make a caption or they make a meme.
Like a meme in particular is almost like it's dry
and it means the opposite of what it says type
of thing. So The fifteen Joys of Marriage was the
late fourteen hundreds. It was in France, and it was
a sarcastic guide to how great being married was essentially,
and this was mind blowing humor at the time.
Speaker 1: That's funny, and we know the French value marriage.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I know, right, they were like, oh, the
joys of marriage include like the wife cheating on you
with the town priest, or the fact that your husband
is impotent. These are all the joys of like the
that's hilarious, sarcastic joys of marriage. So they were funny, yeah, exactly,
they were fun or like also stuff that like either
the husband or the wife was like bad and bad,
all kinds of stuff like that. So there was like
a there were also like meme pamphlets.
Speaker 3: Essentially, I didn't think people were funny back then, right,
Like that's pretty hilarious.
Speaker 2: This is the thing that we always underestimate people in
the past, right, which we talk about all the time.
It's like but it's always.
Speaker 1: They had nothing else going on. They had to be funny, right,
you have to keep yourself entertained.
Speaker 2: Yeah. There were also other ones, like the Ship of Fools,
which was made in fourteen ninety four. It was also
sort of a meme situation. It just basically was like
a boat full of morons, and every moron was essentially
like a different type of person who lived in your city,
essentially like a drunk, corrupt priest who was like hooking
up with a nun. And it would make fun of
like town idiots eating shoes or fighting pigs whatever they
thought was funny, I guess. But another meat is like
a meme pamphlet that's hilariously. It wasn't all terrible, even
though sixty thousand women or sixty thousand people, I should
say probably most women, but sixty thousand people were executed
across Europe thanks to their first version of social media.
Speaker 3: Wow, I'm actually surprised it didn't start a war.
Speaker 2: It probably did. It almost certainly did, because they were
also super political and stuff like that. And what was
interesting with these pamphlets, much like Twitter in particular, but
I think Instagram too. You can take this at this point,
is that it would the royal courts and the kings
and stuff like that. It would put pressure on them
because they'd be like, dude, people are eating this fucking
pamphlet up. Yeah, how the Germans are assholes and we
might need to do like the people keep reading these pamphlets,
and either they had two choices. It was go arrest
the pamphleteer and put them in jail so that they
don't have to go do something they didn't want to do,
or cave in basically and go, you know, if I
don't do whatever political thing they had to do, because
the people were eating up these like essentially shitty Twitter threads, right,
you know what I mean, or.
Speaker 1: Like I'm sorry you advocating for censorship.
Speaker 2: Kind of after like dude, research of this again, it's
just like I don't know if we can be trusted.
Speaker 3: Right, I mean it looks like a slippery slope. People
were being accused of being witches, right, how could that?
That feels like something that could happen again.
Speaker 2: Yeah, a new like you said, like a new version
like oh you're a bot or something like that. Yeah. Absolutely.
And what's funny is though you know they got a
handle on it after like three hundred years they figured
it out, Yeah, they kind of, but pamphlets were still
basically up until I would say, probably like call it
post civil war, like what do.
Speaker 3: We think like newspapers replaced it.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think pamphlets are still really big in the
lead up to like the US Civil War, Like it
was a way for people. It's like they were like
a combination of like having your own Twitter or having
a blog or something like that. But it's your way
to get information out, whatever fucking crackpot information you had.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Actually, our episode Lincoln's favorite hate read. There was this
guy who in the US pre Civil War, who Lincoln
had lost his congressional seat in the eighteen forties and
was pretty dejected about it and was like, I don't
know If'm gonna go back into politics like it was,
I don't know. It just sucks at loss. This blows.
And this guy was just like a lunatic in the
South somewhere, and he was like, not only do I
love slavery, we need more slaves. And not only do
we need more He's like I'm not even just talking
about black people, I think that most people should be slaves.
Speaker 1: The Irish, like theag I had Welcome.
Speaker 3: To corporate Amerae.
Speaker 2: So Lincoln read this that he was like, god damn it,
and they got him back into politics. I hate read it.
But this guy was essentially self publishing. I would say,
somewhere between a blog and and akin to your self
published book. Kind of type of situation, you know what
I mean, but kind of a hodgepodge of that. Wow,
And it got so they were pamphlets were were really, really,
really big up until I think newspapers really got industrialized
post Civil War and became kind of so big and
so cheap and so prevalent that pamphlets were not quite
what they were.
Speaker 3: Do you know where how were people getting them? Were
they just blowing in the wind and people were snatching
the corner selling them.
Speaker 2: They were or they would post just uh they would selling.
But you know, you sell one and like eight people
go to read it. There's a circulation and their secondary circulation. Okay,
But if it was really big situation, like if people
really wanted their ship out.
Speaker 3: There, yeah, okay, wow. Interesting.
Speaker 2: So another one was the pamphlet was the Devil's Bagpipes.
That would show this is anti Catholic. We we're both Catholic,
so we love anti K. We love anti Catholics. That's
the funniest thing in the world. Like anti K just
people thinking the pope is a wizard.
Speaker 1: Basically yeah, ever since Vatican two.
Speaker 2: Yes, it would have like the pope and monks playing
bag bag pipes that like poop was coming out of
so people weren't exactly everyone loved poop jokes back then.
Speaker 1: By the ways, it's Frankie dead. No, it's still live, kie,
frank still alive for now. Okay, Yeah, I'm excited for
a conclave.
Speaker 2: So the other thing, there was a second social media
panic of sorts. It came about two hundred years after
the pamphlet craze, and this is probably more I think,
akin in some ways to what your book deals with,
in that people get very lost in social media. R. Yeah,
I did date this one girl right before Courtney, who uh,
I was like the only dude she never posted about
what like in terms of like every other guy she
dated and including her current husband, this bitch who she
would post about constantly like oh it's just so great,
just special. And then like I was like I didn't
know it at the time because I didn't pay attention,
but like looking back now, I'm like, boy, I don't
think I ever got to post like this.
Speaker 1: Yeah, because you're half of the ugliest couple of Miszoo.
You're dragging her down. Dude, the engagement is gonna tank.
Speaker 3: But no, that I mean that is the big problem
with social media is a lot of these like I mean,
all of us. It feels like a sense of community, right,
it feels like you're connected to something. It feels like
you're like a part of something. It feels like you're
up to date. It feels like you're informed, but like
it's fake, it's not real, so like you're not having
these actual interactions. So it just like you know, builds
that social isolation.
Speaker 2: Who the human being is?
Speaker 1: You want the sweet sweet dopamine hit.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I will say for people who don't know this,
like whenever I post stuff to social media, it does well.
Like right now post reposting a bunch of old TFM stuff. Boy,
Like as as much as you get lost and scrolling,
when you get that little red bubble up on Instagram
full of likes and oh yeah, that is it? That
is straight heroin.
Speaker 3: Like you know what's crazy about that is they I
just learned that they delay your likes so like so
that when you're posting, you're like waiting for people to
like it and they'll you'll get maybe like twenty right,
when you post, but they'll hold them back and then
they'll like sporadically give them to you, so you keep
checking and seeing like where.
Speaker 4: They're like, who's liking it?
Speaker 3: Diabolical, it's crazy.
Speaker 1: It's not good, it's.
Speaker 2: Bad, not great.
Speaker 3: It does feel amazing, though, oh my god, to get likes,
to get real likes that red bubble, nothing nothing better when.
Speaker 2: That little triangle is just like four hundred or something
like that.
Speaker 3: Incredible, nothing like it.
Speaker 2: Like I'm a god? Yeah, why am I not famous already?
Like this?
Speaker 3: Wait? And you are?
Speaker 2: Basically yeah, because people were eight people share my thing.
Speaker 3: And that's huge.
Speaker 2: Fucking yeah.
Speaker 1: Wait till I go back to the high school reunion.
Speaker 2: The first guy, see, he's just like your Instagram's fucking good.
All right. I went to all.
Speaker 1: Guys like, who do you think you are?
Speaker 2: Dan on Brand for Yeah, yeah, who you are? I'm
just like, no one, I'm gonna go talk about like
three friends. Please, don't know what I like.
Speaker 1: I'm embarrassed about this too.
Speaker 2: Don't like trust me as much as you hate it,
I hate it so much more.
Speaker 3: But you love it though, love it, hate it.
Speaker 2: So it's like self loathing that you just can't stop right, Yeah? Yeah,
did you have that where you're just like, I know
I suck, but I gotta just keep doing this. Yeah,
like you hit a point where you're like, I hate this,
but I'm going to keep going.
Speaker 3: Yeah you mean like posting, Yeah yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2: Yes because for a while it's fun.
Speaker 3: Because for a while, it's fun because you're like getting
what you want right.
Speaker 2: And you do cool stuff if you honestly genuinely as
even though I'm sure you needed to social media, like,
still you do things that most people don't do.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's crazy. Is like a lot of the photos
I look at, I'm like, I was like not happy
that day, you know, but like you look like you know,
it's just like all fake, Like all of it's fake,
And I feel like, yeah, the editing is a whole
nother thing, Like I used to edit my photos like crazy.
I'm surprised you even recognize me.
Speaker 2: You're still blonde, So yeah, yeah that was the main thing.
If you walked up, Brunette, I would have been like,
do you need something, ma'am?
Speaker 1: Yeah, this day really sucked, but damn did I look good?
Speaker 3: Yeah? Literally, So yeah, it's it's all just such a mirage.
So but it's so easy to like forget that, you.
Speaker 2: Know, obviously, especially it's like you step like get further
away from it. You're like, oh, maybe that was a
good day.
Speaker 3: Picture looks great, picture looks great.
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, why not?
Speaker 2: So the other thing after the pamphlet Craze dies down
was the novel reading panic of the eighteenth and nineteenth century.
This is the funniest thing to me in the world
because now, not wrongly either, but I don't know if
you obviously you you're an author, But do you read
a lot?
Speaker 3: Yeah?
Speaker 2: Okay, I'm sure. I don't mean to sound like a
dick or anything, but like I'm sure some of it is.
Speaker 3: Like garbage, garbage, right, yeah, Like do.
Speaker 2: You read what's the dragon shit going around? Right? My
wife reads it?
Speaker 3: Oh, I am not reading it, but I know it is, right, she.
Speaker 1: Reads a lot.
Speaker 2: Yeah, she reads a lot of like fantasy and basically yeah,
like like it's like sex romance novels and dragon fantasy.
Speaker 1: I think my friend is reading that on the recommendation
of Scott Lopez, so it can't.
Speaker 2: Be too bad. Sounds like Scott's recommendation. Yeah, but like
a lot of it is just like kind of junkie
novels stuff. But it's like eating's great, you should read,
you should read.
Speaker 3: Oh my god, it's good for your brain.
Speaker 4: Obviously not according to these people.
Speaker 3: So what did they think? My question is what did
they think was better? Talking? Like what was there?
Speaker 2: This was novels. This is pre television, pre radio, pre
social media.
Speaker 3: Obviously, like fix was bad as fiction, specifically.
Speaker 2: This sort of low class fiction. Okay, these were like
I guess a later term for it would have been
dime store novel. Okay, the situations paperbacks, Okay, you know,
like like low like television basically almost you know what
I mean? Okay, TV, you'll write your brain. Novels in
the eighteenth and nineteenth century were a big moral panic,
specifically for women. Of course.
Speaker 3: Obviously, I can't have these ladies reading.
Speaker 2: Reading, and especially like smutty things.
Speaker 3: No, I mean, they're going to become witches again, maybe.
Speaker 2: You don't know. So books like h Samuel Richardson's Pamela
or Rousseau's Julie they sold like crazy, and unlike most
books at the time, whether they're like religious texts or
more like I don't know, epic poems and shit, they
weren't boring. They were like page turners basically, right, Everyone
from clerics to educators doctors were like, this is fucking
up people brains, specifically women's brains. It's morally dangerous, it's
a threat to social order. One in seventeen nineties, British
pamphlet even pamphlets didn't like the novels.
Speaker 3: Of course they didn't, right, it's cutting on their business, yeah, competition.
Speaker 2: They they moaned that servants neglected their spinning for novels.
So essentially like people weren't people weren't doing their chores.
Speaker 3: Wow.
Speaker 2: Jane Austin actually mocked this idea in one of her books,
where she had like a novel obsessed woman who thought
everything was a murder plot because these books were like
about murder and sad it was like true true crime
where almost like almost more like SVUK. A novel was
like an Svu Binge marathon.
Speaker 3: Right, yeah, tracks, that makes sense. That's so crazy, Okay,
But they were like reading. So what happened did they say?
Ladies put those books away?
Speaker 2: They did. A doctor's had a lot of opinions, someoning
in some oh im gonna get yeah, yea, yeah, we're
gonna get in some really high level medical opinions.
Speaker 3: Oh please.
Speaker 1: We did not respect doctors back then, though.
Speaker 2: They still they still chimed in. They're like a woman
needs to be bled from the legs for five days
if she reads more than two novels.
Speaker 1: Like, I guess you're gonna have to take the doctor's
word over a witch's word. But I mean it feels
they seem.
Speaker 2: In the seventeen hundred. It's what like George Washington died
because the doctor was like, get more blood out of them.
He's got too much blood in him.
Speaker 3: Oh I didn't even know that.
Speaker 2: He was sick anyway, but the doctor, but bleeding was
like a medical get the dirty blood out of him,
like he's got sick blood.
Speaker 1: Kind of logical, right, right, right, People don't know this.
The cherry tree got revenge. You chopped in down. Yeah.
Speaker 2: So, reading too much, according to doctors, inflamed the passions.
Uh it led to nervous disorders h hysteria or even
my favorite, uh, womb fever. It would make women's wombs
too hot.
Speaker 3: What reading? Yeah, this is from a medical profession.
Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, yeah, as much as you can call anyone
too hot for a baby.
Speaker 1: To survive, or just too hot.
Speaker 2: Too hot in general. Uh, it would create uncontrollable lust
according to doctors. Uh, something called uterine furor. Uh.
Speaker 3: And men were complaining about that.
Speaker 2: Uh yeah, I know, right, because it kept him out
of marriage. They were they were too they wanted too many.
Speaker 3: Right, they couldn't even Yeah, they were reading so much.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it was either it made you too horny or
it made you like a sick goblin who never left
your room.
Speaker 4: Right.
Speaker 2: You when what that meant by curled up with a
book back then, was you just became like a golam,
like a crooked golam, like reading. Yeah.
Speaker 3: No, yes.
Speaker 2: One German doctor in the seventeen nineties said that he
had a patient who had a miscarriage upon binge reading
the Gothic romance novel Udolpho. The Gothic thrills shook her
womb until the baby fell out too early.
Speaker 3: Come on, is that a direct quote?
Speaker 2: Well, I said shook, he did a baby shook her womb?
Loose is a direct quote?
Speaker 3: No, And people believe this.
Speaker 1: People are like, my God, novels, you can never shake
a baby, they tell you this.
Speaker 2: Yeah, you don't even in the womb.
Speaker 3: Wow, that is hilarious.
Speaker 2: So if you get on a trampoline, make sure there's
not a baby in there.
Speaker 3: Right because, and don't bring a book.
Speaker 2: Don't read a book on a trampoline. And Dulpho Dolpho, Udolpho,
Adelpho Udolpho.
Speaker 1: I mean, if you're in a red state, maybe do that.
If you're looking for alternative options.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, if you're in Texas and get pregnant, trampoline
in a novel will probably take care of busines. Take
care of that, just fine. A French doctor in seventeen
eighty nine argued that now this might sound familiar, that
novels like social media over stimulated the brain led to
exhaustion and uh set the brain in a frenzy, frying,
fragile nerves.
Speaker 1: Can't be thinking too much?
Speaker 2: Wow, can't be reading?
Speaker 3: Did they want these women specifically to be doing kneading dough?
Speaker 1: Like?
Speaker 3: What do they want these women to be?
Speaker 2: In fact one doctrine, who had to uh, who had
to not novel detox? A woman uh prescribed her chores?
Speaker 3: Shut up, shut up, that's true, shut up, stop using
your brain. Please dumb it down, girly pop please, this
is go sweep some stuff.
Speaker 2: There's a dusty floor over there that's calling your name.
Speaker 3: No brain cells, no brains, don't think.
Speaker 2: Yeah, now they didn't like men reading it either, but
it was women were the primary target audience for a
lot of these, of course, and so that was where
things really because men it seems that it seemed that
with men it was it was it's like I think
they thought it like self regulated, that like just the
nerds would get beat up. I guess right, you know
what I mean?
Speaker 3: Yeah, and maybe like it wasn't cool, like maybe it
wasn't you know.
Speaker 2: You were supposed to be drinking and gambling according to
the research that I the like research I did. It's
just like men would either you were a nerd and
you didn't have any friends, so who fucking cares about
you anyway, or your your bros would eventually like shame
you out of it and come.
Speaker 1: Back to you stimulate the economy with your money gambling, drinking.
Speaker 2: And that's it and horn horing yea, and horring if
that's but I mean, if women, but if wake up
a book, there's a lot of things that aren't getting
done right.
Speaker 3: So holding up the end of the bargain.
Speaker 1: We don't want that to happen, otherwise we've fall into chaos.
Speaker 3: Right, Wow, this is crazy. I can't believe that this
was a thing.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I don't know. It sounds kind of long, don't.
Speaker 3: It does sound a little bit like social media because
in the beginning, I mean, now, men, I don't know
if you guys have noticed this. I feel like more
men are becoming addicted to their phones, whether it's like
Reddit or some people. Some guys are addicted to like Pinterest,
which I think is like hilarious because that's such a
girly ass that yeah, that is guys are because it's
like curated like perfectly to what you wanted. It's like,
you know guys who were like looking at projects or
like woodwork or.
Speaker 2: Whatever, like that's for crafty dudes.
Speaker 3: Yeah, craft yeah, yeah yeah yeah. But in the beginning,
I feel like social media was mostly girls, Like mostly
girls cared about the Instagram or like looking good or whatever,
and they were the ones who were really especially you
look at the teen girls like they're they carry.
Speaker 1: The digital camera out eyebars and then upload the photos
and Instagram.
Speaker 2: I was in college when Facebook went nationwide. Okay, yeah,
and yeah, you're old that Yeah, I'm old ball. You're
thirty nine tomorrow.
Speaker 3: Okay, so good birthday.
Speaker 2: Jesus, you're thirty nine. It's not great.
Speaker 3: Holy shit, still thirties, that's great.
Speaker 2: Yeah, one more.
Speaker 1: You're a hold done, dude, back it up.
Speaker 2: I'm just a dad though. That's why I'm like here,
like I'm gonna drink beers while I can't. Yeah, and
then way to go home and fall asleep next to
my child as he falls asleep.
Speaker 1: You're more than halfway through your life.
Speaker 3: Okay, that's not true.
Speaker 1: No, it's true, so true.
Speaker 2: All my grandparents, all my grandparents lived into their nineties.
Speaker 3: Oh see, he'll be fine.
Speaker 2: So I've yeah, technically six more years until I hit
the halfway point. Probably. However, one grandparent did fall down
and fall in his eighties. He only died from the
fall though.
Speaker 3: The falls are what Yeah, the big problem.
Speaker 2: I've actually had two grandparents die from falls. One was
in their nineties, when it was in their eighties, and
he made it a couple more years, but the fall
kind of fucked him up.
Speaker 3: Oh that's always what happened.
Speaker 2: Ye yeah, yeah yeah. So as long as I don't.
Speaker 3: Fall, you gotta say the light on your feet.
Speaker 2: It should be good to go. I'm to probably just
go a wheelchair at fifty to get that safe.
Speaker 3: That's a good call. Just take your feet off the ground.
Speaker 2: Yeah, but what he didn't, No athlete, I don't need these.
Speaker 1: One grandparent got really in a rollerblading at seventy.
Speaker 2: We tried. We were like, Grandma, please stop.
Speaker 3: She did no. No.
Speaker 2: Oh.
Speaker 3: I was like, that's adorable. That's like a really cute
hobby to take up at.
Speaker 1: Seventy right, wow, well it doesn't m well right yeah right,
because she wouldn't wear a hel what so didn't think
it made her look cool.
Speaker 2: We're like, you're seventy.
Speaker 3: Yeah, but she had a social media presence.
Speaker 2: And she had Yeah.
Speaker 3: She was like, it doesn't play, it doesn't get likes.
Speaker 2: Yeah, but no, uh so I was. I was in
college when Facebook started, and that was entirely female driven
because to the point where I remember I got on
Facebook specifically because I was trying to get a girl's number,
and she was like, oh, just for me on Facebook.
I didn't have Facebook yet and I was like, wellt
got on Facebook. Yeah, like your medi if that's it?
Speaker 3: Wow? Yeah, No, that is how it started and also
like I feel like, even like Instagram, all these apps,
like really there is like a dating element weaved.
Speaker 2: In one hundred percent, you know. And even when Twitter
used to be there's like a glorious minute when Twitter
was like young and cool instead of like the cesspool
it is now.
Speaker 1: Twitter was wild West.
Speaker 2: Though. Twitter was a blast in twenty twelve.
Speaker 3: It was fun. It was funny.
Speaker 2: It was really funny, and it was like all like
everyone was like in their twenties or like eighteen basically,
and it was like actually fun. Like I remember that
being where I would like interact with other people my age,
and then that very quickly became more news and political
and blowbles.
Speaker 1: But those people also grew up and became lame.
Speaker 2: And became awful. Yeah yeah, yeah I'm still sweet, so.
Speaker 3: That's all that matters. You know, We've stayed cool.
Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, but yeah, there was a progression, right, went
from Aim.
Speaker 3: To oh my god, Aim was amazing Facebook.
Speaker 2: Yeah, right, Aim? And but Aim though too, was like
the primary reason I wanted to use it was to
talk to girls. Yeah, like I would talk to my
buddies on there too, but like it really was to like, yes,
like talk to girls, like because the otherwise you only
get see him in school or whatever.
Speaker 3: Isn't that funny? It really is like social media is
like guys just are there to see girls, and girls
are there to impress girls. Na, good girls aren't there
to get guys.
Speaker 1: Mim was to put up a sweet away message.
Speaker 3: What did you have in your what did you have
in your way? Message? You mention your.
Speaker 1: Friends always changed, like oh dude, quote like board hit
up the cell bro, Oh yeah, I like that, or
just a song lyric that I was feeling what dropping.
Speaker 2: To Murphy's song lyric was in your fucking away message?
Shipping up the Boston all he was Ever, He's from Philly.
Speaker 3: So he's oh Philly guy.
Speaker 2: Yeah, coast all the way, although he went to UCF,
So he's really a Florida man at heart.
Speaker 3: Right, that'll change you. Yeah, time in Florida changes.
Speaker 2: Like as much as you like to rep Philly, you are,
I'm a Florida, Florida through and through.
Speaker 1: Yeah, looks like he belongs to a thousand percent go back.
Speaker 3: You do look like a Florida guy in a good way.
Mm hmm.
Speaker 1: I definitely feel like I fit the profile more than
Jake becoming an oyster farmer.
Speaker 2: Uh, Jake is a weird Florida guy though, because Jake's Inland.
M hm, he's he grew up in like the middle
of Florida.
Speaker 3: He'll be brand he'll he'll now.
Speaker 2: He actually if you want a great if you ever,
I don't know if you still do the fitness stuff
at all, but boy, does a oyster farming get you shredded?
Speaker 3: Really?
Speaker 2: I lost like thirty pounds immediately, something I'm positively He's
got a sweet and change. Yeah, carries cages because he
was a bread boy. Like over COVID. He was like,
I'm gonna start making sourdough constantly. Yeah, and it showed. Okay,
he hit the fucking oyster field, hit the doc goddamn it.
Speaker 3: Donnas Now, Wow, that's amazing.
Speaker 1: Lost too much weight in his face though. Oh he's
too skinny. He's kind of frightened the problem. I hope
you're listening to this, Jake.
Speaker 2: I hope he is too. He usually does consentenzl Texas
and be like cool, thanks for talking show with me.
On this random episode. Another thing that novel reading. Uh,
a doctor said, now this might sound familiar led to
depression in teens. Wow, the highs and lows of the
stories essentially were like essentially dopamine highs and lows. Wow,
fucked them up. I mean, this is but these are
probably bullshit the doctors.
Speaker 3: But I mean, I will say there are similarities.
Speaker 2: I mean, sounds the exact goddamn sane. Also, it hurt
their eyes. They had eye people got eye problems from
reading novels. The print was small, so these were cheaply
printed novels, right, so the print was as small as
you can make it where people could still read it.
And obviously they're reading by candle light. So even though
candlelight whatever, orange light is better than blue light, the
fact that they had low light reading small print not ideal.
Speaker 3: Wow, this is crazy.
Speaker 1: Yeah, but if you're like reading fantastic epics and your
life is just going to the same job over and
over and over again, I feel like it con your brain.
Speaker 2: So a big problem with the novel reading that doctors
and other people say is it completely took people out
of reality. They preferred to live inside of that world.
Then inside if you're a peasant in the middle of
the real world, well it's the eighteen hundreds, but you.
Speaker 3: Are so crazy. It's so it's social media.
Speaker 2: Right, So, yeah, it's the the the This is what
we always it's always like a joke when people and
this is not too diminut this is a great book.
I'm not diminishing what you did, but it is always
funny to me that people are just like this is so,
I'm so, and I think a lot of people. I
think a lot of people might make that sound. I
think it sounds diminishing, But to me, it's like, look,
it happened before people got through it. Yeah, you can
do it too, right type of thing, right, not just
in the current, like, oh, it happened to someone eight
weeks ago and they got through it, but in fact,
humans deal with this shit kind of constantly. Yeah, and
they always get through it.
Speaker 1: This is rob arguing for a social credit score.
Speaker 2: H This is me arguing, I think against actually people
getting to make content as I talk into a podcast
microphone that we don't pay for.
Speaker 3: It is crazy though, that's a crazy thought. So what
happened was there like some sort of detox up from
novel reading.
Speaker 2: No, people just got over it.
Speaker 3: People just got over it, and then TV came around.
Speaker 1: TV.
Speaker 2: So up until the eighteen sixties there was still a
bit of a novel panic in the United States. We're
always a little bit behind Europe in that way. I
feel like, so that stuff was still blamed. Actually, all
the way up into the nineteen twenties, people really hated
a sort of dime store detective novels and westerns and
stuff like that. That thought was garbage. More so in the
same way, although I do think TV is actually a
good comp to social media as well, even though I
didn't cover it on this I feel like a lot
of things people said about television in the sixties, seventies
and eighties sounds a lot like what people say about
social media now totally as well, even though television's way
way more impersonal stre novels for that matter, whereas like
the social media does have a unique aspect in that
it is all like hyper created by the people on it, and.
Speaker 3: It's way more personal, and it's and there's no limit,
like TV is like you watch an hour of Friends
and you're done right, you know, this is like you
could go all night.
Speaker 1: The real game changer was probably the paddle with the
ball on the string. That's why people stopped to read
and they just kept hitting.
Speaker 2: Eventually, that got people off was yeah, the paddle uh
with the.
Speaker 3: And I'm selling that next.
Speaker 2: Yeah, the company should tape to the back of every book.
Is is a Yeah.
Speaker 1: They got off their factory shift that was seventeen hours,
they had an hour break before they went back to
their next shift, and they were just bouncing the ball.
Speaker 2: Uh. And there was one more social media parallel with
novels that I think is funny and uh pertinent, which
is they were afraid that people girls in particular, young
girls in particular, would emulate what they saw in the
novels or read in the novels. I suppose one girl
allegedly drowned herself because she uh read it in the
Sorrows of Young worther. So like, I guess probably a
book about some girl drowning herself or something like that.
Speaker 1: Young girls are a problem though, but also they're to
blame for the sandwich.
Speaker 2: They would they did they It actually was kind of
young girls that did that. Really, it was like the
main accusers, like these four young girls that ate corn
that was basically alsd and started accusing every one of everything.
Speaker 1: Wow, And then they got into deep and then they
hated some people, so they just accused of them of
being did very.
Speaker 2: Quickly become political and families were just using it to
kill each other. Oh my god, sandwich draws pretty funny.
Speaker 3: Actually, wow now now in retrospect, in retrospect the time, yeah,
goofy yeah funny.
Speaker 2: Now we just laugh at them the same way someone
will laugh at us. Feel like you believe that idiot
was scrolling so much? Yeah, fu my robot.
Speaker 1: Uh.
Speaker 2: But they were worried that young girls would be overly
affected by either kind of fomo from the novels. They
weren't getting the romance that these characters were, or they
would emulate behavior like drowning themselves or maybe even killing.
So one thing that reminded me of was the she
remember the story the slender Man killing?
Speaker 1: Do you not know that at all?
Speaker 2: You know? You know who slender Man.
Speaker 3: Is, right, yeah? But why do I know? I can't.
Speaker 2: Like, it was like two twelve year old girls killed
their friend because slender Man was like big on social media.
They killed their friend because they're like, oh, slender Man
told us on social media. The slender Man, which is
like a fictional character that got big on social media.
Speaker 3: But do you remember this? It's dark?
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's that's not long enough way to laugh. I yeah,
but this is and so yeah, but it was like
the type of thing like people are gonna either have
FOMO from reading these novels and not getting to live
the exciting lives that they read about in the novels,
or they'll emulate the behavior. Like the girl who allegedly
this probably didn't happen, by the way, is probably a
doctor being like I know old lady whose baby fell
out from the novel being too sexy, and I know
another girl who drowned herself from the novel being too sad.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, wow, that's crazy. I mean, that's what they
say now about social media, right, it's like they're worried
about girls.
Speaker 2: Well and not wrongly.
Speaker 3: I don't mean no, they're right, and I don't want
to I don't want to get too dark either. But
like there's a lot of now lawsuits that are coming
out about parents who are suing for wrongful death in
some cases. And yeah, they're trying because they're trying to
have some you know, have these apps have some responsibility.
There's that that huge loophole though that they're not technically
responsible for things that are posted.
Speaker 2: Is they're not publishers.
Speaker 3: I think, yeah, there's like some weird rule that they're
like able to like skirt around responsibility. But yeah, I mean,
like it's crazy because this is that is such a
crazy parallel. It's because that's happening now.
Speaker 2: I just I always take like some like warm comfort
and just being like I'm not special.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it is nice. It is nice to feel that
like we're good.
Speaker 4: Yeah, it's fine.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's like someone else, hopefully dumber than me, got
through this so they could do it.
Speaker 3: We can do it.
Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly, You're fine, You're fine. You're gonna be okay,
like you've if you've identified the.
Speaker 3: Problem, right, you're being more mindful, right, then you're fine.
Speaker 2: So that is all I got today. Wow, on the
parallels of so or the I should say the first
two needs for a social media detox.
Speaker 1: And if that is reassuring, let me just completely upset
the apple cart. Oh please, we got a three percent
chance of being hit by a city destroying meteorite.
Speaker 2: Yeah, but it only destroys city.
Speaker 1: In twenty thirty two. Yeah, but what if it's you?
Speaker 2: What if it's Austin?
Speaker 1: What if it's a Are.
Speaker 2: They gonna tell us more than a like day in advance.
Speaker 3: Who knows, Yeah, maybe that we should. We should know though, right,
we should at least know the area, right, can't They see.
Speaker 2: They won't They wouldn't know the area until it gets closer.
But they just like three percent chance it might smack
somewhere into Earth, which is mostly ocean.
Speaker 3: There's a lot of water out there, so.
Speaker 2: Chances are it'd be funny if it hit Indianapolis.
Speaker 3: But it would be bad still.
Speaker 1: Yeah, but it's not gonna have so hop on the
surfboard out in the Pacific.
Speaker 2: If it's it would it would actually, I think just
be funny if everyone got out in time, because I
feel like Indianapolis there's nothing there, so you can just
rebuild it.
Speaker 3: Tomorrow, yeah, or don't or.
Speaker 2: Don't Yeah, just go somewhere else. Yeah. See that's why
you've never visited in Indianapolis. Doesn't look good on Instagram.
Speaker 3: That's the thing. It's like, Yeah, if I was planning
my vacation, that wouldn't be an instagram worthy Yeah.
Speaker 1: But think if India becomes like the next Grand Canyon,
it's beautiful. Yeah.
Speaker 3: Well, if there's a if something lands there, a meteor.
Speaker 2: It's in its immediate uh tourist destination, right.
Speaker 3: Then it's the hottest place to go.
Speaker 2: Ever, I would go there tomorrow, like I would go
yeah and takes off es yes for Instagram.
Speaker 4: Yeah at the media can't be God, Wow, this is.
Speaker 3: Like so interesting. I love that I learned all this stuff.
Speaker 2: I uh, I'm glad you. I'm glad to financing I
I it's just funny because I know I've thought about
this with social media before, because I did know about
the novel Panic, I did not know about the pamphlet Panic.
But it is typically where I'm like, yeah, social media
not great for you. I hate when I pick up
my phone, especially around the kids, because it's like, god,
like I'll do it so absoluindly, yeah, that I'll just
be like God, damn it, get the fuck away, right. Yeah.
But it is the type of thing too, where it's
like every it's almost less so that like the the
comp is exactly the same, but the people always say
the same things.
Speaker 3: Isn't that insane?
Speaker 2: We're not very creative. We're somehow the most and least
creative species of.
Speaker 3: All time, right, Like they're worried about the same things always,
mostly about women.
Speaker 2: Yeah, but I mean, well, keep keep it together. I guess.
Speaker 3: That's insane.
Speaker 2: I think I think they get the most generous reading
of that that would be is that they worry about
women because they're just like, there's nothing we can do
about men. Yeah, it's just they're just animals.
Speaker 3: And we can't even like control them or tell them
what to do. Like, if there's only what they're not
going to read, don't worry about that.
Speaker 2: Yeah, there's a snot there is no novel problem.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 2: My wife is always like, you never read like I
read news. I can't sit down and read a novel,
read the words of other men.
Speaker 3: That's gay, that's like general of the guys.
Speaker 2: Yeah, we're always just like, God, we're just watching sports.
Is such a cocked behavior, just watching better men do
better things.
Speaker 3: Right, Yeah, it's the same thing.
Speaker 1: Imagine having your emotions moved by another man, sad cocked behavior. Yeah, yeah,
I can't do it. We'll do it.
Speaker 3: Can you support Lebron now? Like, can you watch him
and be excited about it? Are you still holding a grudge? No?
Speaker 1: I always hold a grudge.
Speaker 3: Wow, no matter what team he's on.
Speaker 1: Hate whatever team he goes to, Especially easy with the Lakers. Yeah. Why, uh,
there's the Lakers and so success, that's really success. Yeah,
it's one of the most successful. Friends.
Speaker 2: Did you become a Laker fan after you? I shouldn't before.
Speaker 3: I was before. You know, I actually grew up a
Bulls fan because I'm from Chicago, Okay, So, and are
you old enough for Jordan's Yeah, kind of like I
knew what was going on, and I had my babysitter
was a lovable She was a cheerleader for the Chicago
Bulls and it was like a lovable and it was
like iconic, and so I kind of grew up a
Bulls fan. But then obviously when I moved to La
I was there. My first season was Kobe Bryant's last
season as a Laker, So like being there for that
was like the coolest thing ever, Like seeing that like
goodbye tour was like incredible.
Speaker 1: I also don't really fuck with Kobe because he disowned Philadelphia,
that's where he's from. But whenever he do you.
Speaker 3: Mean he did not disown in what way he hated Philadelphia.
Speaker 1: He's like, I'm from Italy, Like, no, you're not, dude.
Speaker 3: I really know if that's all true.
Speaker 1: My grandfather went to like most of his high school
basketball games more than my basketball games.
Speaker 2: Okay, that's why he really grandpa.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it always comes back to little jealousy a little bit.
Speaker 2: I would also choose to watch Kobe, like if there's
some if my child is liked, and like two courts over,
there's some kid just doing fucking cartwheel dugs.
Speaker 1: You don't see me in fifth grade just missing wide
open layups. Grandpa's got to see history. Yeah, you know
that's crazy.
Speaker 2: I didn't realize you were there for Kobe's last Yeah,
last run.
Speaker 3: It was incredible. That was like the coolest and being
at the last game was like probably top five coolest days.
Speaker 2: How long were you?
Speaker 3: Like I did for four seasons. Yes, I was there
for like really iconic stuff, like I was there for
the Lonzo ball moments. I don't know if you follow
very closely, And oh my god, I literally didn't even
know that amputated his foot. What happened?
Speaker 2: They were too heavy?
Speaker 3: Yeah, oh no, that's sad. But yeah, and then I
was there for Lebron's first season and just like cool,
it was cool years to be there.
Speaker 2: Do you still get to get hooked up with tickets?
Speaker 3: Or anything like if I want, you know, I could, well.
Speaker 2: I guess you worked there too, still, Like yeah, like that's.
Speaker 3: The thing, like I do. I work a lot of games,
so it's I kind of get my fill.
Speaker 2: Fucking crazy since Luca got there, Yeah, it's.
Speaker 3: Been pretty crazy. It's just like such a different, you know,
atmosphere now, and it's just anytime you get like a
huge player like that that comes, it just feels like
everything is just different. Buzz yeah, very Yeah. Lakers fans with.
Speaker 1: The best they because it happens every time. They always
get a generational player and then that guy leaves and
they replace it with another generational player there.
Speaker 2: There was only in my memory, the only time they
didn't have one was like six years and the nineties
between Magic and Shack. Oh, because I got Shack in
ninety six. Magic maybe retired like ninety three or something
like that. So there's like a two or three year
period where the Lakers are just a poverty franchise and
then I just went right back to being the fucking Lakers.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 2: But the NBA knows how to do it, like the
Major League Baseball will let the Yankees be ass like
the NFL they will let they would let the Packers
suck for a minute, but the NBA is like, no,
the Lakers need to be winning well.
Speaker 1: Bringing a full circle, Adam Silvers inn Ai, Yeah, he's
bought Ida.
Speaker 2: He's definitely yeah and a slender man.
Speaker 1: He's not a real person.
Speaker 3: I do feel like we are gonna start seeing And
this is just my my conspiracy theory prediction. I think
we're gonna start seeing people like actually being bought. Like
I feel like that's gonna be a thing. Like do
you guys saw the Elon Yes, like in the next
five years, you saw Elon went out on that date
with that robot.
Speaker 2: I did not see that.
Speaker 3: This was like six months ago or something. Okay, he
went on like a date like and went out to
her with like a literal like she was kind of hot.
Speaker 4: She was a hot robot.
Speaker 3: But like, I just feel like we're just gonna start
seeing I mean, it can't be that hard to do
like prosthetic stuff and like make people. So it's like,
are we going to start cloning people? I don't know,
I'm just saying.
Speaker 2: I mean, Barbara Streisa and clones your dogs every twenty years.
Speaker 3: So oh, and that's adorable.
Speaker 1: So that's Monty.
Speaker 3: I guess if you use it for good Yeah right, yeah.
Speaker 2: She just wants the same dog over teak two things
to do. At the end of the show, yeah, say
what do you learn today? And then we say who
is today's Hitler? Which is a joke we have because
everyone's very dumb at history and the only thing they
ever compare anyone bad to is hitler. So who's It's
essentially who was the worst person in the in the story,
if anyone? So what did you learn today?
Speaker 3: Well, he learned about the pamphlets. I learned a lot
about history. I'm gonna send this to my dad. He's
gonna love it. And what who's the hitler of the story?
Speaker 2: Yeah?
Speaker 3: I mean do we think it was the witches?
Speaker 2: Yeah?
Speaker 1: That's actually what I learned today is we probably got
more witches than we.
Speaker 2: Know we could. We didn't get zero witches. Yeah, there
was a It feels outrageous to say zero witches. We
got a couple of witches in these trials. That wasn't
Did we did we cast too wide a net? Certainly?
No one's debating that.
Speaker 1: Listen, the process isn't perfect.
Speaker 2: Yeah, dide we get zero witches? That's an outraged state
out of city. Now accomplished the goal. Yeah, yes, we
could do better, though we could. It was a carpet
bombing situation, and we need to be precise.
Speaker 1: To fine tune things. You got to figure it out. Yeah,
I'm sure we got better as the process went along.
Speaker 2: I was my Hitler is just a doctors. Any doctor
before nineteen hundred is probably a fair useless person. I
was joked because my grandfather was a doctor and he
went to medical school probably in like nineteen thirties, I think,
And I was like, man, that's just like that's really
like two generations of doctors removed from when they were
just crackpots.
Speaker 3: Yeah, like what were they doing even learning doctor?
Speaker 2: Yeah, the first actual doctor.
Speaker 1: My Hitler today is definitely Gutenberg, if you do if
you go by body count, probably more than Stalin, probably
more than.
Speaker 2: Probably The fact that it is so fucking funny that
the fact that like immediately like is every time information
gets democratized, it goes through like the worst birthing process
ever and before things get like okay, right, like it's
like he's almost and honestly, if if you've been at
a birth before, it really is it's really just a
mess before the baby's adorable, right right, Yeah, a whole
lot of blood and guts.
Speaker 3: It gets cute totally. I know you're so right, And
that's like kind of how social media was. I feel like, yeah,
it still is.
Speaker 2: I think we're still in the birthing process, but I feel.
Speaker 3: Like we're coming down. We're coming down. I think we're starting.
Speaker 2: People getting a handle on it, right, Yeah.
Speaker 3: It feels like we're becoming less dependent.
Speaker 2: The first generation born while social media existed is what,
what do you think the oldest person of that is
twenty three, twenty four? Maybe?
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2: I mean, if you want to call Facebook the first
like true universal social media, you would have be born
like two thousand and four, right, yeah, so you're like
twenty one.
Speaker 1: Yeah. I think social media is getting into a good
place where you can put your online classes, really get
in a drop ship in adopt you know, the carnivore diet, right,
all the good stuff, all the good stuff's out there. Yeah,
and we're really evolving as a species.
Speaker 2: You're not truly healthy until cholesterol is leaking through your
hands like someone on use.
Speaker 3: That's what they say the doctors.
Speaker 2: The doctors say that.
Speaker 4: Yeah, that's what I've heard.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm onto hew four point zero though two point
zero I've already skipped over three point Oh, I'm on
the four point zero.
Speaker 2: Fair tig. Where can everybody find you?
Speaker 3: So it is ironic since I am promoting a social
media de docs, but you can find me at tg DP,
which is T I E G. E EDP and then yeah,
and then the books on Amazon and.
Speaker 2: The social media Detox social media detox check it out
Amazon anywhere else books are sold just Amazon.
Speaker 3: It's actually just on Amazon, perfect, I mean.
Speaker 2: That's wherever it goes. Anyway. Yeah, I didn't know. I
didn't know if there was a website you prefer and
then you have a website too, write social media de talk.
Speaker 3: Yeah, so it's social dash media dash detox dot net okay, yeah.
Speaker 2: Where they can find more info and.
Speaker 3: More info and yeah.
Speaker 1: Yeah, directly to the source, you know, exactly right.
Speaker 2: The vein.
Speaker 1: Uh.
Speaker 2: That is all I've got for today, Tea. Thank you
so much for joining us.
Speaker 3: Awesome, thank you, this was awesome. I want to come
back next time, Austin.
Speaker 2: You're welcome anytime.
Speaker 3: Okay, absolutely, thank you.
Speaker 2: It's hilarious you were even here I DM you and
it's like if you have you ever and you're like,
oh in a week, yeah, yeah, I'll be there in
a week.
Speaker 3: Yeah. It was amazing.
Speaker 1: Yeah, thank you so muchy stalking you on social media
that's what happened.
Speaker 2: Yea, yeah that was every day. I was like I
need a reason to d m T. And then she
published a book and then yeah, I was like done.
Speaker 1: And most women investgative journalist when it comes to social media.
Speaker 2: Yep, yeah, one hundred percent. But yeah, that is all
I've got for today. Tea. Thank you so much for
joining us, uh for Damn Regester Antigue, Doulie Panko. I
am Rob Fox.
Speaker 1: You just got saw served