1 00:00:09,560 --> 00:00:13,400 Speaker 1: This is Beer in Front, part of the Beer Media Group. 2 00:00:13,800 --> 00:00:16,640 Every week I'll talk to people in and around the 3 00:00:16,679 --> 00:00:21,519 beer world and get their stories all about beer. That's 4 00:00:21,559 --> 00:00:27,199 Beer in Front and it's coming up now. Welcome to 5 00:00:27,239 --> 00:00:31,120 episode two hundred and thirty five of Beer in Front. 6 00:00:31,559 --> 00:00:35,359 I'm your host, Dave Zalatorus, and Beer in Front is 7 00:00:35,359 --> 00:00:38,560 a charter member of the Beer Media Group. I have 8 00:00:38,600 --> 00:00:41,320 a good show for you today. I'm talking to Joel 9 00:00:41,520 --> 00:00:46,280 Alex over at Blueox Malt House. They're located in Maine 10 00:00:46,320 --> 00:00:51,759 and they provide malt to all sorts of world class breweries, distilleries, 11 00:00:51,759 --> 00:00:54,679 and bakeries, so stay tuned for that. You may have 12 00:00:54,759 --> 00:00:57,880 noticed something was a little different than the intro. I 13 00:00:58,039 --> 00:01:01,359 have left the Odd Pods media at work. I love 14 00:01:01,439 --> 00:01:03,719 all the people that are there, but I want to 15 00:01:03,759 --> 00:01:07,599 start pursuing this beer media group a little bit more. So. 16 00:01:07,920 --> 00:01:11,840 I'm flying solo now, so I'm not to say there's 17 00:01:11,879 --> 00:01:14,799 not going to be ads in the future, but for 18 00:01:14,879 --> 00:01:19,519 the time being, please enjoy this ad free experience of 19 00:01:19,640 --> 00:01:23,319 Beer in Front. I hope everyone had a great Thanksgiving. 20 00:01:23,719 --> 00:01:26,319 Ruby and I had a good time. We had We 21 00:01:26,359 --> 00:01:30,599 went to Costco. They had everything all done forty Bucks, 22 00:01:31,040 --> 00:01:35,280 the turkey, the green beans, the stuffing, the mashed potatoes, 23 00:01:35,319 --> 00:01:38,840 little cups of cranberry, throw it in the oven. Hour 24 00:01:38,879 --> 00:01:40,719 and a half hour and forty minutes later you were 25 00:01:40,799 --> 00:01:43,560 good to go. So keep that in mind for next 26 00:01:43,640 --> 00:01:45,840 year if you have a small family like we do. 27 00:01:46,439 --> 00:01:49,599 Forty Bucks and hey in the cart, it went good. 28 00:01:49,640 --> 00:01:52,840 Couple shows lined up for you. Next week, I'm going 29 00:01:52,959 --> 00:01:57,719 to talk all about the American Craft Beer Hall of Fame, 30 00:01:57,920 --> 00:02:01,439 so that should be good. Stay tuned for that next week. 31 00:02:01,760 --> 00:02:04,840 I'm on vacation this week and I have a ton 32 00:02:04,879 --> 00:02:08,879 of interviews lined up to hit record on, so there's 33 00:02:08,879 --> 00:02:12,199 gonna be a good month of episodes coming out. So 34 00:02:12,360 --> 00:02:15,520 please subscribe if you haven't already, so you could always 35 00:02:15,520 --> 00:02:19,120 catch the latest edition of Beer in Front. Also, be 36 00:02:19,240 --> 00:02:23,800 sure to follow me over on Instagram and TikTok and YouTube. 37 00:02:23,840 --> 00:02:26,280 Follow me there at Beer in Front. I'll post some 38 00:02:26,400 --> 00:02:30,120 videos of you know, various beer reviews, and on Monday, 39 00:02:30,280 --> 00:02:34,840 I'm putting out a special, quick little video, so you'll 40 00:02:34,840 --> 00:02:37,280 have to follow me and keep an eye out for 41 00:02:37,319 --> 00:02:49,960 that on Monday. In Beer and Beverage News, Ravenni a 42 00:02:50,039 --> 00:02:54,599 brewing company. They've announced they're gonna have a new name. 43 00:02:54,879 --> 00:02:58,680 Their new name will be steep Ravine Brewing Company. They 44 00:02:58,719 --> 00:03:02,520 put out a press release. The nonsense with the music 45 00:03:02,599 --> 00:03:07,479 festival is over with, thankfully, and they can continue making 46 00:03:07,599 --> 00:03:10,879 great beer. But there is some bad news about this 47 00:03:11,560 --> 00:03:14,919 that the location in the city in Logan Square, they're 48 00:03:14,960 --> 00:03:18,400 going to close on December fourteenth. They're still going to 49 00:03:18,439 --> 00:03:22,439 continue to brew there, but the brewpub itself is going 50 00:03:22,520 --> 00:03:26,039 to close, and they'll keep the Highland Park one open. 51 00:03:26,280 --> 00:03:30,159 So I'm glad for steep Ravine. I'm glad all his 52 00:03:30,280 --> 00:03:34,080 shits behind him and they can continue on. But I'm 53 00:03:34,159 --> 00:03:37,520 sad that was a great location over on Diversy that 54 00:03:37,599 --> 00:03:40,280 I love going to. I loved the food that was there, 55 00:03:40,719 --> 00:03:42,919 so I'm sorry to see that go. But I wish 56 00:03:43,080 --> 00:03:46,840 them all the success in the world, and now they 57 00:03:46,840 --> 00:03:49,800 could just focus on making great beer and also a 58 00:03:49,840 --> 00:03:55,599 lot of Chicago most and cores. They acquired a Cruz Blanca, 59 00:03:55,960 --> 00:03:59,680 which I mean, this came out the day before Thanksgiving 60 00:04:00,159 --> 00:04:01,840 kind of a news dump, so it was kind of 61 00:04:01,879 --> 00:04:06,360 surprising to a lot of people. But Molson course has 62 00:04:06,439 --> 00:04:10,439 bought them, the owner and the head brewer staying on. 63 00:04:10,639 --> 00:04:13,199 According to the article that I'm reading over on Brewbound 64 00:04:13,560 --> 00:04:17,800 and also the owners are going to continue having the 65 00:04:17,839 --> 00:04:20,439 brew pub and I guess they're going to license the 66 00:04:20,519 --> 00:04:25,439 IP now for Molson Corps. So it was kind of surprising, 67 00:04:25,639 --> 00:04:30,040 but Molson Cores is the new owner of Cruz Blanca. 68 00:04:30,079 --> 00:04:33,319 In January, President elect Trump promised that he's going to 69 00:04:33,399 --> 00:04:36,959 put a twenty five percent tariff on all imported goods 70 00:04:37,000 --> 00:04:40,720 from Canada from Mexico. Also there's going to be an 71 00:04:40,720 --> 00:04:44,399 additional ten percent on China. This is kind to effect 72 00:04:44,439 --> 00:04:48,199 alcohol consumption. You get a lot of people buying Mexican 73 00:04:48,240 --> 00:04:53,000 beer brands like Corona Pacifico Medello. You know, how's that 74 00:04:53,079 --> 00:04:56,639 going to affect them? Also, you have tequila that's made 75 00:04:56,680 --> 00:05:01,240 there Canadian whiskey, so the ice of certain things might 76 00:05:01,279 --> 00:05:13,600 be going up. In January, all right, welcome back. Blue 77 00:05:13,600 --> 00:05:17,600 Ox Malt House has been in operation since twenty thirteen. 78 00:05:18,120 --> 00:05:21,519 Their twenty thousand square foot facility is the largest of 79 00:05:21,600 --> 00:05:25,360 its kind in the world outside of Europe. Blue Ox 80 00:05:25,439 --> 00:05:29,160 Malt House is a one hundred percent floor malting company 81 00:05:29,560 --> 00:05:33,480 that provides grain for the finest brewing, distilling, and baking 82 00:05:33,519 --> 00:05:37,600 companies across the Northeast, Joining me today is Joel Alex, 83 00:05:37,920 --> 00:05:40,560 founder of Blue Ox Malt House. Joel, thank you so 84 00:05:40,639 --> 00:05:43,120 much for taking time out to talk about malt today. 85 00:05:43,279 --> 00:05:45,680 Speaker 2: Oh, thanks so much for having me, Dave. I'm excited 86 00:05:45,800 --> 00:05:49,360 to share a lotville about what we do and hopefully 87 00:05:49,720 --> 00:05:53,600 hopefully answer some questions and providing the information. 88 00:05:54,000 --> 00:05:57,000 Speaker 1: Why start the walt house, It's a good question. 89 00:05:58,399 --> 00:06:03,920 Speaker 2: Prior to this, my background, all professional background was teaching 90 00:06:04,600 --> 00:06:11,439 and trail access community organization in rural Maine. So my 91 00:06:11,759 --> 00:06:16,759 academic background was in environmental studies like international policy, so 92 00:06:17,279 --> 00:06:21,480 it wasn't an obvious choice to go into malting. But 93 00:06:22,279 --> 00:06:28,399 after college, I worked in rural Maine doing that kind 94 00:06:28,399 --> 00:06:32,160 of trail access development work, and a lot of my 95 00:06:32,319 --> 00:06:38,560 friends were farming or were somehow involved in agriculture or food, 96 00:06:39,120 --> 00:06:43,839 and I was continuing to kind of look at sustainable 97 00:06:43,879 --> 00:06:48,680 development and what that meant for my region and what 98 00:06:48,720 --> 00:06:52,199 that looked like, and you know, it was just paying attention. 99 00:06:53,240 --> 00:06:56,079 I made a lot of furidated, a lot of fermentation 100 00:06:56,240 --> 00:07:00,639 at home, and I just saw this like up tunity 101 00:07:01,199 --> 00:07:04,120 in the food system where we had all this grain 102 00:07:04,279 --> 00:07:08,759 that was leaving our leading our state, and all this 103 00:07:09,040 --> 00:07:11,959 malted grain that was being imported and we were kind 104 00:07:11,959 --> 00:07:18,000 of losing the economic value of that, and I basically 105 00:07:18,839 --> 00:07:22,600 had the dangerous why. Initially the thought I was talking 106 00:07:22,600 --> 00:07:26,399 to a craft brewer, one of one of the OG's 107 00:07:26,399 --> 00:07:29,680 at Oak Pond Brewing in Maine, which is, you know, 108 00:07:30,319 --> 00:07:32,439 a great little craft brewery that goes back to the 109 00:07:32,519 --> 00:07:36,800 nineties in Maine, very rule, very up there, very out. 110 00:07:36,879 --> 00:07:39,079 If you've been to Maine, you well, we haven't heard 111 00:07:39,120 --> 00:07:41,600 of them, but they're still there. They're good, they're outside 112 00:07:41,600 --> 00:07:45,319 of Skochegan, and yeah, we were just it was just 113 00:07:45,399 --> 00:07:49,959 at that moment Adam was like their head brewer was like, yeah, 114 00:07:49,959 --> 00:07:52,560 we can't use any local grain because nobody's malting it. 115 00:07:52,600 --> 00:07:54,800 And I was like, somebody has to do that. That's like, 116 00:07:54,879 --> 00:07:58,920 that's a brilliant that's that's amazing. Well, it's amazing that 117 00:07:58,959 --> 00:08:01,439 no one's doing that, and then it would be an 118 00:08:01,480 --> 00:08:04,079 amazing thing to do. I was in the process of 119 00:08:04,120 --> 00:08:07,480 going to grad school to study kind of rule economic development, 120 00:08:08,680 --> 00:08:10,920 But once I kind of got that all out of 121 00:08:10,959 --> 00:08:13,480 the way, I was like, well, what would I want 122 00:08:13,519 --> 00:08:15,120 to do with this degree? And I was like, I 123 00:08:15,279 --> 00:08:17,399 want to do something like this. What if I just 124 00:08:17,560 --> 00:08:20,319 tried to do it, and at the time there was 125 00:08:20,839 --> 00:08:24,439 there are only maybe four or five other craft malt 126 00:08:24,480 --> 00:08:28,040 houses in the country to look at Valley Malt down 127 00:08:28,079 --> 00:08:34,120 in Massachusetts, River Bend down in North Carolina, Colorado Malting, 128 00:08:34,159 --> 00:08:36,919 and Colorado. So there's there's a few of them out there, 129 00:08:36,960 --> 00:08:38,399 but not very many of us. 130 00:08:38,559 --> 00:08:41,399 Speaker 1: Yeah, you would think, like, I mean, it's perfect. The 131 00:08:41,440 --> 00:08:44,639 area that you're in is ideal, with so many great 132 00:08:45,159 --> 00:08:48,279 breweries there that it would make sense for you know, 133 00:08:48,360 --> 00:08:50,960 breweries to use locally sourced products. 134 00:08:51,399 --> 00:08:53,360 Speaker 2: Well, when I when I started working on this in 135 00:08:53,399 --> 00:08:56,720 twenty twelve, I was like, there's so many breweries. We've 136 00:08:56,759 --> 00:08:59,519 got thirty three breweries in the state of main I know, 137 00:08:59,559 --> 00:09:03,240 I don't have I actually don't. There's brewing licenses. There's 138 00:09:03,320 --> 00:09:05,440 over two hundred now, but you know, I think some 139 00:09:05,639 --> 00:09:11,759 of those are like multiple type tasting rooms and tap rooms. 140 00:09:11,799 --> 00:09:15,919 But I don't actually know the amount of brewerize that 141 00:09:16,000 --> 00:09:18,039 are crome operating in the state of Maine. I feel 142 00:09:18,039 --> 00:09:21,559 like I should, but I don't. But it's it's approaching 143 00:09:21,559 --> 00:09:23,240 two hundred, I believe. So. 144 00:09:23,639 --> 00:09:23,879 Speaker 1: Yeah. 145 00:09:23,919 --> 00:09:28,879 Speaker 2: Anyway, well, at the time, there there's like thirty three 146 00:09:28,960 --> 00:09:31,919 and I was like, there's so many and they're importing, 147 00:09:32,000 --> 00:09:36,879 you know, millions of pounds of malted grain. But I 148 00:09:36,879 --> 00:09:40,320 think one of the things that really makes made Main 149 00:09:41,159 --> 00:09:44,000 interesting for the Northeast, and what made me kind of 150 00:09:44,000 --> 00:09:47,799 believe that this was possible here, is that we have 151 00:09:47,960 --> 00:09:50,720 a potato growing industry in the northern part of the 152 00:09:50,720 --> 00:09:53,120 state where you see a scale of agriculture that you 153 00:09:53,200 --> 00:09:56,000 really don't see in the Northeast until you get maybe 154 00:09:56,039 --> 00:09:59,600 down to northern New York and Pennsylvania, and down there 155 00:09:59,639 --> 00:10:03,720 it's a lo of corn, but corn doesn't really grow 156 00:10:04,240 --> 00:10:08,279 well up in northern Maine, and we have that potato culture, 157 00:10:08,879 --> 00:10:11,639 and as part of that culture, there's a grain rotation. 158 00:10:12,679 --> 00:10:18,360 And since around a little around two thousand, Canada Malting 159 00:10:18,480 --> 00:10:23,399 started to put some contracts for grain out of northern Maine. 160 00:10:24,000 --> 00:10:27,720 So there's barley multi barley being grown in Maine that 161 00:10:27,840 --> 00:10:30,720 was just going to Canada, and then anybody who wanted 162 00:10:30,759 --> 00:10:35,120 to use it was buying back a blend through BSG 163 00:10:36,320 --> 00:10:39,240 Distorbusian Center in New York. So it just seemed like 164 00:10:39,279 --> 00:10:41,039 there's I don't know, it seemed like me it was 165 00:10:41,120 --> 00:10:43,720 right to just bring it all home. 166 00:10:44,080 --> 00:10:46,399 Speaker 1: I was looking at your website earlier and one thing 167 00:10:46,399 --> 00:10:49,759 that I noticed is that you try to at least, 168 00:10:49,759 --> 00:10:52,639 if not all, of your grains come from the local 169 00:10:52,799 --> 00:10:56,919 area farmers. Was this always part of the plan, like 170 00:10:57,000 --> 00:10:59,080 part of your mission statement when starting. 171 00:10:58,799 --> 00:11:02,879 Speaker 2: Blue Ox, Because basically, as I was talking about before, 172 00:11:03,720 --> 00:11:08,320 one of the motivating factors for me was trying to 173 00:11:08,320 --> 00:11:12,200 figure out a way to support working landscapes in Maine 174 00:11:12,600 --> 00:11:15,519 and support my friends because I had so many friends 175 00:11:15,600 --> 00:11:18,600 who were doing agriculture, and I had some friends who 176 00:11:18,639 --> 00:11:21,799 were doing grain specifically, because we were just starting to 177 00:11:21,879 --> 00:11:29,159 get some local gristmills and excitement around local grain for 178 00:11:29,360 --> 00:11:35,240 baking and milling in the state. So I knew I 179 00:11:35,240 --> 00:11:38,159 didn't want a farm that wasn't like my place in 180 00:11:38,240 --> 00:11:42,759 the story, but I wanted to figure out how to 181 00:11:42,799 --> 00:11:48,639 provide accessible, premium, mid size markets for these farms that 182 00:11:48,679 --> 00:11:54,039 are really small compared to out west. For example, I 183 00:11:54,080 --> 00:11:56,840 think some of the recent data, these are approximate numbers, 184 00:11:56,919 --> 00:12:00,399 is that we have about like fifty fifty four thousand 185 00:12:00,440 --> 00:12:05,120 acres of potatoes in Maine in any one season. You know, 186 00:12:05,240 --> 00:12:09,000 in rotation with those potatoes, you can you know equiplate 187 00:12:09,080 --> 00:12:14,360 that there's an equivalent or similar amount of acres in 188 00:12:15,080 --> 00:12:20,440 grains or small grains, and I met somebody. I'm part 189 00:12:20,480 --> 00:12:23,879 of the National Barley Improvement Committee with the American Malting 190 00:12:23,960 --> 00:12:26,799 Barley Association. I work with them a couple of years. 191 00:12:27,320 --> 00:12:30,639 Sit down with a farmer from North Dakota and he 192 00:12:30,720 --> 00:12:35,120 talks about his fifty thousand acre farm and I'm like, Okay, 193 00:12:35,639 --> 00:12:39,600 you've got as much a bridge on your as we 194 00:12:39,679 --> 00:12:42,639 have in Maine. And I bring that up only because 195 00:12:43,840 --> 00:12:49,960 the economy of scale is really different here. Of creating grain, 196 00:12:50,519 --> 00:12:53,120 and growing grain in Maine has a different cost than 197 00:12:53,320 --> 00:12:58,200 growing grain in North Dakota. And in order for these 198 00:12:58,600 --> 00:13:03,279 farmers to increase survivability of their their farms, to really 199 00:13:03,360 --> 00:13:06,480 see benefit from growing this grain and making a high 200 00:13:06,559 --> 00:13:09,480 quality grain that brewers can use, you have to be 201 00:13:09,559 --> 00:13:12,639 able to pay them a premium. You know, if they're 202 00:13:12,639 --> 00:13:15,279 getting the commodity market, if they're getting paid what it 203 00:13:16,240 --> 00:13:20,759 costs somebody in North Dakota to make their grain, they're 204 00:13:20,759 --> 00:13:23,600 losing money. So I wanted to kind of change that. 205 00:13:24,159 --> 00:13:27,840 Speaker 1: Now you use it blue ox floor malting. What's the 206 00:13:27,960 --> 00:13:33,279 difference between floor malting and how other malt houses manufacture 207 00:13:33,279 --> 00:13:33,759 their malt? 208 00:13:33,919 --> 00:13:38,799 Speaker 2: Sure, well, your most maybe most or at least many 209 00:13:38,840 --> 00:13:43,120 of your listeners probably already know something about the malting process. 210 00:13:43,279 --> 00:13:48,559 But like quick review, for anyone who doesn't, malting is 211 00:13:49,639 --> 00:13:53,840 basically an ingredient. I mean, I think everyone listening to 212 00:13:53,879 --> 00:13:55,399 this podcast probably knows that. 213 00:13:55,799 --> 00:13:58,240 Speaker 1: If not keep listening, I take all the listeners I 214 00:13:58,240 --> 00:13:58,600 can get. 215 00:13:59,120 --> 00:14:04,639 Speaker 2: Yeah, but the process is taking live grain, soaking it 216 00:14:04,679 --> 00:14:09,159 in water and getting it hydrated, then letting it germinate 217 00:14:09,360 --> 00:14:13,799 and grow, and then baking that grain down in order 218 00:14:13,960 --> 00:14:17,279 to kind of get rid of some flavors, add flavors, 219 00:14:17,480 --> 00:14:20,480 app color depending on the temperature you bake it down at. 220 00:14:21,039 --> 00:14:24,159 And you know, to put it simply, for anyone who 221 00:14:24,200 --> 00:14:27,399 doesn't hasn't made a connection. It's it's basically we do 222 00:14:27,480 --> 00:14:29,720 that because if you take raw grain and you add 223 00:14:29,720 --> 00:14:32,279 hot water, you get a porridge like oatmeal. You don't 224 00:14:32,320 --> 00:14:35,399 get that fermentable liquid that the yeast can then use. 225 00:14:35,799 --> 00:14:39,960 So there are you know, and just like with brewing 226 00:14:40,080 --> 00:14:42,720 or any process, you can apply different methods. You know, 227 00:14:42,720 --> 00:14:45,399 you have those three steps. Those are always the three 228 00:14:45,440 --> 00:14:48,840 steps of malting, you know, whether you have a floor 229 00:14:48,919 --> 00:14:52,440 melting or a pneumatic malting system, it's all always those 230 00:14:52,440 --> 00:14:56,240 three steps are happening. But in our process, what we 231 00:14:56,279 --> 00:14:59,559 do a little differently is that we take that germination 232 00:14:59,679 --> 00:15:03,759 step where the grain is growing and modifying over say 233 00:15:03,799 --> 00:15:08,919 four or five days, and we're doing that on concrete 234 00:15:09,360 --> 00:15:16,039 malting floors, as they historically did a lot in Scotland 235 00:15:16,279 --> 00:15:20,000 in the distilleries. They still you know, many of your listeners, 236 00:15:20,120 --> 00:15:24,159 I'm sure you know, have know of or have used, 237 00:15:24,320 --> 00:15:27,799 you know, for maulted checkpills, or worked with some of 238 00:15:27,799 --> 00:15:32,720 the environments for malted products, but it's not something that's 239 00:15:32,720 --> 00:15:36,399 really been done in North America very much. So right 240 00:15:36,440 --> 00:15:41,759 now I think we have eleven thousan square feet of 241 00:15:41,879 --> 00:15:46,159 like malting floor, which I'm pretty sure is the most 242 00:15:46,279 --> 00:15:51,879 you know, the largest amount of malting floor uh in 243 00:15:51,879 --> 00:15:55,759 in North America. So you know, But but we do 244 00:15:55,840 --> 00:15:59,240 have some good competitors that you know, friendly competition with 245 00:15:59,320 --> 00:16:01,879 the guys out at Admiral for that. Yeah, do you 246 00:16:01,919 --> 00:16:03,759 have to shout out to them well. 247 00:16:03,720 --> 00:16:06,679 Speaker 1: Doing like floor malting, I would think that uses less 248 00:16:06,720 --> 00:16:11,759 automation and it's more of a personal, hands on approach 249 00:16:12,360 --> 00:16:15,039 to the grain itself that has to make a difference 250 00:16:15,519 --> 00:16:18,320 in the taste and quality of what you're getting from 251 00:16:18,320 --> 00:16:19,279 blue ox correct. 252 00:16:19,679 --> 00:16:21,919 Speaker 2: I mean we believe so, yeah, we definitely I mean, 253 00:16:22,240 --> 00:16:24,679 you know that last card, we certainly believe have yea. 254 00:16:24,840 --> 00:16:27,960 And as far as the process this goes, it is, 255 00:16:28,000 --> 00:16:31,519 I mean, I like to say that we have you know, 256 00:16:31,559 --> 00:16:36,039 we combine modern technology with like the traditional traditional floor malting, 257 00:16:36,120 --> 00:16:39,639 because it is that germination step on the floor that 258 00:16:39,639 --> 00:16:43,320 that makes us a floor molster. That said, we have 259 00:16:43,440 --> 00:16:46,960 steep tanks. We're using modern steeping techniques. You know, one 260 00:16:47,039 --> 00:16:50,120 hundred years ago they would serve barley for two weeks 261 00:16:50,159 --> 00:16:53,120 in a large sister, not change the water things like that. 262 00:16:53,159 --> 00:16:56,600 We don't do any of that. We use modern steeping 263 00:16:56,639 --> 00:16:59,960 techniques to get a nice like clean, bright flavor. You know. 264 00:17:00,080 --> 00:17:03,320 The mald help clean the the grain that we're using. 265 00:17:04,039 --> 00:17:07,880 And then yeah, and then we will transfer it manly, 266 00:17:08,160 --> 00:17:12,519 manually onto the forest and then over the course of 267 00:17:13,599 --> 00:17:17,359 for days, every few hours, me one of my staff 268 00:17:17,400 --> 00:17:23,400 members are in there turning the malt over because it's 269 00:17:23,480 --> 00:17:26,720 it's starting to grow rootlets, there's some heat build up. 270 00:17:27,279 --> 00:17:31,960 And one of the things that I think really makes 271 00:17:32,279 --> 00:17:35,519 floor malt stand out is it's really gentle on the 272 00:17:35,559 --> 00:17:38,440 grain while it's hydrated and growing. And that's when the 273 00:17:38,480 --> 00:17:41,880 grain is most fragile. The pneumatic malting that's sort of 274 00:17:41,920 --> 00:17:48,240 alternative that we see in most places in North America 275 00:17:48,640 --> 00:17:53,240 is it's all mechanized. It's all augs moving it. That 276 00:17:53,279 --> 00:17:56,559 can be really hard on the grain when it's being 277 00:17:56,599 --> 00:18:01,279 like rushed through these mechanical processes. We have a multi 278 00:18:01,400 --> 00:18:05,319 rate redesigned. We just have a turner redesigned. It's very 279 00:18:05,960 --> 00:18:11,400 gentle on the grain, keeps the embryo happy and whole 280 00:18:12,079 --> 00:18:16,559 during that process. And yeah, because we are interacting with 281 00:18:16,640 --> 00:18:19,960 it every few hours over the course of that germination, 282 00:18:20,240 --> 00:18:25,920 there's no set and forget. We're constantly smelling and feeling 283 00:18:26,039 --> 00:18:28,559 and seeing what's happening with the grain, which allows us 284 00:18:28,640 --> 00:18:32,279 to make a lot of modifications multiple times throughout the day. 285 00:18:32,799 --> 00:18:35,920 You know, there's no set and forget, you know, and 286 00:18:36,000 --> 00:18:40,920 we'll adjust or all lengthen the germination time or otherwise 287 00:18:40,920 --> 00:18:43,720 sort of adjust something if we're not really seeing what 288 00:18:43,759 --> 00:18:49,000 we want. So it creates a really nice, well modified, 289 00:18:49,440 --> 00:18:50,480 you know, clean. 290 00:18:51,839 --> 00:18:52,359 Speaker 1: Tasting. 291 00:18:53,799 --> 00:18:56,079 Speaker 2: It keeps saying clean tasty, but I just mean like 292 00:18:56,400 --> 00:19:00,279 we're not getting like a lot of vegetable or are 293 00:19:00,400 --> 00:19:04,839 kind of like flavors that you wouldn't hope. Sometimes you 294 00:19:04,880 --> 00:19:06,799 want them, but most of the time you're hoping not 295 00:19:06,880 --> 00:19:09,880 to have that. And you know, one thing that does 296 00:19:10,319 --> 00:19:13,359 make us also a little different with just the floor 297 00:19:13,400 --> 00:19:17,079 malting pieces. I mean, we do that all in climate 298 00:19:17,079 --> 00:19:21,160 controlled spaces, so it's one of the reasons why we're 299 00:19:21,160 --> 00:19:25,559 sort of like modern floor malting. You know again, lookie 300 00:19:25,640 --> 00:19:28,440 way back, you'd see the foror maltings in like the 301 00:19:28,519 --> 00:19:33,039 old Scottish distilleries, they would just open windows on either 302 00:19:33,079 --> 00:19:35,279 side and hope to get a breeze going through to 303 00:19:35,440 --> 00:19:38,200 kind of lower the temperatures. But we do a lot 304 00:19:38,319 --> 00:19:41,519 because malting is all of a temperature and moisture. After 305 00:19:41,640 --> 00:19:46,359 grain selection, you are just trying to help that grain 306 00:19:46,920 --> 00:19:52,319 do its thing by adding moisture, removing moisture, removing temperature, 307 00:19:52,400 --> 00:19:53,319 adding temperature. 308 00:19:53,799 --> 00:19:56,200 Speaker 1: I notice on your website you have specialty grains like 309 00:19:56,400 --> 00:19:59,920 rye in oats. Do these use the same floor malting 310 00:20:00,079 --> 00:20:00,839 process as well? 311 00:20:01,400 --> 00:20:04,960 Speaker 2: Yeah, everything that we malt is floor malted, So we 312 00:20:05,039 --> 00:20:09,519 do rye wheat. I mean, obviously we do barley, but 313 00:20:09,559 --> 00:20:12,640 we do rye wheat oats. You've done some trit to kelly, 314 00:20:12,680 --> 00:20:15,599 which is fun with this kind of new expansion that 315 00:20:15,640 --> 00:20:19,440 we just did. We're gonna be have the sort of 316 00:20:19,440 --> 00:20:22,799 production slots to be able to play around with some 317 00:20:22,880 --> 00:20:26,680 more brains the subqum year, so that will be fun. 318 00:20:27,680 --> 00:20:29,920 But yeah, it's everything's for malted. I mean that that 319 00:20:30,079 --> 00:20:33,640 is definitely part of what makes us very unique. When 320 00:20:33,680 --> 00:20:36,960 it was the last time that somebody listened to this 321 00:20:37,000 --> 00:20:41,000 podcast used it, Flora malted trit to Kelly Vaults, you know, 322 00:20:41,400 --> 00:20:45,160 I don't think there's it's it's a pretty unique product, 323 00:20:45,319 --> 00:20:49,759 tastes amazing, It's it's one of my favorite malts that 324 00:20:49,799 --> 00:20:55,240 we have right now. It's got just like a lovely ready, cracky, 325 00:20:55,680 --> 00:21:00,799 cracker toasty flavor. I I don't mean you know, it's florally, 326 00:21:01,319 --> 00:21:03,400 it's it's just it's just delicious. 327 00:21:03,680 --> 00:21:06,440 Speaker 1: Already breweries out there using that right now in a 328 00:21:07,160 --> 00:21:09,559 in a beer that's like widely available or is it 329 00:21:09,599 --> 00:21:12,440 all pretty pretty local? No, it's not widly. 330 00:21:12,559 --> 00:21:19,119 Speaker 2: It's not something that we've we've seen wide adoption on Maine. 331 00:21:19,119 --> 00:21:24,319 Beer Company has done a little bit with that, and 332 00:21:24,359 --> 00:21:27,039 there's actually many small berries like we have to many 333 00:21:27,079 --> 00:21:28,920 customers who have done so it's hard to call it 334 00:21:29,000 --> 00:21:32,920 someone someone anyone in particular but we have seen some 335 00:21:33,279 --> 00:21:37,319 distillers also get excited about that. So I think we're 336 00:21:37,319 --> 00:21:40,240 gonna I think we're going to see some more of 337 00:21:40,279 --> 00:21:42,559 that coming out locally in our region. 338 00:21:43,000 --> 00:21:46,440 Speaker 1: Yeah, you've got a great lineup on your website. Look 339 00:21:46,440 --> 00:21:49,079 and you had all star lineup. But they do, and 340 00:21:49,200 --> 00:21:50,240 you're really excited. 341 00:21:50,880 --> 00:21:53,839 Speaker 2: One of the things change change tompas. But one of 342 00:21:53,880 --> 00:21:56,799 the things that I've always wanted to do with this 343 00:21:57,480 --> 00:22:01,559 is it's about making local grain available for whoever wants 344 00:22:01,559 --> 00:22:04,880 to use it. So we definitely have heard from customers 345 00:22:04,960 --> 00:22:11,000 that only buy eight hundred thousand pounds of malt a 346 00:22:11,079 --> 00:22:14,240 year from us, you know, bank us for giving them 347 00:22:14,279 --> 00:22:19,720 the like customer service and making this available, where as 348 00:22:19,799 --> 00:22:23,240 they don't get the same attention from the big suppliers 349 00:22:23,400 --> 00:22:26,240 and the big malt houses that you know, an Alagash 350 00:22:26,319 --> 00:22:28,799 or a main vea company get. You know, they're they're 351 00:22:28,799 --> 00:22:31,400 always they've got they've got reps knocking on their door. 352 00:22:32,039 --> 00:22:36,319 But you know, it's just awesome to see anybody who 353 00:22:36,400 --> 00:22:40,839 wants to use local, local grain and that's important to them, 354 00:22:41,200 --> 00:22:44,000 you know, to have access to it, I think. And 355 00:22:44,200 --> 00:22:47,400 so yeah, we we work with a range and we 356 00:22:47,440 --> 00:22:50,680 work with hundreds of a brewery. I mean one of 357 00:22:50,839 --> 00:22:53,759 one of my kind of philosophies also around that is 358 00:22:53,799 --> 00:22:58,200 that local. I don't think local necessarily means better, you know, 359 00:22:58,680 --> 00:23:01,680 across the board and for food. I mean think you know, 360 00:23:02,079 --> 00:23:06,160 probably people can think of their own examples with with beer. 361 00:23:06,599 --> 00:23:09,680 But you know, just just because something is grown locally 362 00:23:09,799 --> 00:23:13,559 doesn't inherently mean that it's it's better quality. But I 363 00:23:13,559 --> 00:23:16,400 think it can. I think if we really want to 364 00:23:16,640 --> 00:23:21,240 support our communities, it has to. And so we really 365 00:23:21,319 --> 00:23:24,119 have to create high quality local beer. 366 00:23:24,160 --> 00:23:25,440 Speaker 1: I mean, I think our. 367 00:23:25,759 --> 00:23:28,519 Speaker 2: Job, as I see it is to help our customers 368 00:23:28,559 --> 00:23:31,319 do that. So I mean, we have some great customers 369 00:23:31,319 --> 00:23:35,680 who you know, who work with us, who create beer, 370 00:23:35,839 --> 00:23:37,519 you know, I want to say, regardless of whether they 371 00:23:37,599 --> 00:23:39,279 work with us or not. And you know, we hope 372 00:23:39,279 --> 00:23:41,400 we elevate and we think we do elevate a lot 373 00:23:41,440 --> 00:23:44,640 of the stuff that they do. But you know, even 374 00:23:44,720 --> 00:23:49,480 the small berry that is you know, just a three four, 375 00:23:49,720 --> 00:23:53,480 you know, three five barrel system sells other beer out 376 00:23:53,480 --> 00:23:57,119 of the top room. You know, we have a team 377 00:23:57,599 --> 00:24:02,160 of former production brewers that are there to support those 378 00:24:02,200 --> 00:24:05,039 people and help those people, you know, improve their beer. 379 00:24:05,759 --> 00:24:07,880 You know, work with our product and you know, make 380 00:24:07,920 --> 00:24:11,000 sure that they're putting out really really like high quality 381 00:24:11,640 --> 00:24:15,559 products themselves. So it's it's all about you know, we 382 00:24:15,559 --> 00:24:21,440 we really want quality to shine in our local products. 383 00:24:21,519 --> 00:24:26,440 And I think that's that's performance, that's consistency, that's flavor. 384 00:24:26,920 --> 00:24:30,480 Speaker 1: If you noticed, like throughout your time in Blue Ox, 385 00:24:30,920 --> 00:24:32,599 Like I remember it was a couple of years ago, 386 00:24:32,599 --> 00:24:34,680 I was watching the show on I think it was 387 00:24:34,799 --> 00:24:38,839 Netflix called Chef's Stable and the one episode really stuck 388 00:24:38,880 --> 00:24:42,480 with me where it was a pizza chef there. But 389 00:24:42,599 --> 00:24:45,680 he made it part of his mission. He wanted to 390 00:24:45,720 --> 00:24:49,720 get flour and use the grains that were locally sourced 391 00:24:50,160 --> 00:24:52,160 and he just said it was the best in the 392 00:24:52,200 --> 00:24:55,279 world and tries to get all the ingredients of tomatoes 393 00:24:55,319 --> 00:24:58,599 and everything in certain tomatoes you would have to get promittedly, 394 00:24:58,680 --> 00:25:01,599 but he made it as point to get the grains 395 00:25:02,000 --> 00:25:05,359 from Arizona where he was at. Do you see more 396 00:25:05,400 --> 00:25:09,519 and more breweries or in the twelve year old thirteen 397 00:25:09,599 --> 00:25:11,680 years that you've been in existence, if more and more 398 00:25:11,759 --> 00:25:15,279 companies started doing that, like caring more where they. 399 00:25:15,200 --> 00:25:20,960 Speaker 2: Get sonately, that is that has been something that we've observed, 400 00:25:21,400 --> 00:25:22,839 you know, and a lot of it has to do 401 00:25:22,920 --> 00:25:25,440 with the same reason that that chef was talking about, 402 00:25:25,480 --> 00:25:30,839 which is his flavor, uniqueness of flavor. The concept of terwar. 403 00:25:31,480 --> 00:25:34,720 I think arwar is a really interesting thing because it 404 00:25:34,799 --> 00:25:37,720 certainly exists in beer, certainly exists in you know, the 405 00:25:37,759 --> 00:25:43,240 water and the grain. You know, the same variety grown 406 00:25:43,480 --> 00:25:48,680 in Maine is going to act differently, taste different than 407 00:25:49,160 --> 00:25:52,319 the same You know that that same variety growing in 408 00:25:52,440 --> 00:25:56,400 Michigan or in South Dakota. And you know, as a 409 00:25:56,480 --> 00:26:01,960 brewers on this on this podcast, no, then you're processing it. 410 00:26:02,000 --> 00:26:05,480 So you know, we as monsters make so many choices 411 00:26:05,839 --> 00:26:10,240 about what flavors to bring out. Our process lends so 412 00:26:10,480 --> 00:26:16,440 much uniqueness to that ingredient as well, and then the 413 00:26:16,480 --> 00:26:19,559 finished product brewers obviously make that one's a million million, 414 00:26:19,599 --> 00:26:26,240 They make dozens of choices more on how to tease 415 00:26:26,240 --> 00:26:29,480 out flavors. So it's really complex. I think when you 416 00:26:29,640 --> 00:26:35,000 look at cider and wine, where you're primarily working with 417 00:26:35,240 --> 00:26:38,440 a fruit juice, and everything historically is just like all 418 00:26:38,480 --> 00:26:42,039 tied to that fruit juice. The concept of terroir is 419 00:26:42,079 --> 00:26:45,960 an easier one to unpack, but but it's really complicated 420 00:26:46,039 --> 00:26:51,160 in beer because it's just there's so many aspects and 421 00:26:51,359 --> 00:26:55,160 ingredients that go into it. I will say that you know, 422 00:26:55,240 --> 00:26:58,119 the you know, so there there's definitely that like with 423 00:26:58,200 --> 00:27:02,519 that shift, there's also other reasons why we've really seen 424 00:27:02,599 --> 00:27:06,960 an uptake in crap, you know, in our product and 425 00:27:07,039 --> 00:27:12,880 focus on local with our customers is because you know, 426 00:27:13,319 --> 00:27:16,000 there's this one which everyone expects me to say, which 427 00:27:16,039 --> 00:27:20,519 is which is true, but is expected, which is increasingly 428 00:27:20,680 --> 00:27:24,759 the like beer consumer, it's our value driven you know. 429 00:27:24,839 --> 00:27:28,759 You see these younger generations, they really want to support 430 00:27:28,799 --> 00:27:32,039 businesses that are aligned with their values. And so one 431 00:27:32,079 --> 00:27:34,799 way to you know, demonstrate your values is to use 432 00:27:34,839 --> 00:27:38,880 local grains to advertise that, to to tie that you know, 433 00:27:39,039 --> 00:27:44,160 story to your brand. But what we've actually you know, 434 00:27:45,079 --> 00:27:49,240 seen in addition to that, which has nothing to do 435 00:27:49,359 --> 00:27:54,079 with the consumer per se, is that local supply chains 436 00:27:54,279 --> 00:28:00,839 are more robust and resilient to global factors. And I 437 00:28:01,279 --> 00:28:04,720 joke that, you know, my kind of mission is to 438 00:28:04,720 --> 00:28:11,319 build more robust, resilient and sustainable like food systems in 439 00:28:11,319 --> 00:28:16,359 in the region. And you know, a more decentralized food 440 00:28:16,400 --> 00:28:18,680 system is a lot more stable and I you know, 441 00:28:19,400 --> 00:28:23,759 you know, my sustainability background you know, ecological background is 442 00:28:23,799 --> 00:28:26,400 all you know, supports that. And it was like and 443 00:28:26,480 --> 00:28:28,240 all it took was a pandemic and a war in 444 00:28:28,319 --> 00:28:31,119 Russia to approved me right, And we just saw we 445 00:28:31,279 --> 00:28:34,759 just saw you know, rate in the last couple of 446 00:28:34,839 --> 00:28:39,720 years with all the geopolitical stuff happening in Europe and 447 00:28:39,839 --> 00:28:45,440 supply getting shipping and supply just just being a little 448 00:28:45,440 --> 00:28:50,279 bit more uncertain. We've we want customers that way, they said, 449 00:28:50,279 --> 00:28:52,920 we we just need to add a local supplier so 450 00:28:52,960 --> 00:28:57,559 that if something happens, we're not fully you know, out 451 00:28:58,400 --> 00:29:01,400 and we're not we're not screwed. So I mean, you've 452 00:29:01,400 --> 00:29:05,920 seen we've just seen that too. There's there's a lot 453 00:29:06,039 --> 00:29:09,480 there's a lot more resiliency instability if you can build 454 00:29:09,559 --> 00:29:13,359 a local supply chain for something and we have customers 455 00:29:13,359 --> 00:29:15,799 that are working with us for that reason. 456 00:29:15,960 --> 00:29:18,960 Speaker 1: That's awesome. Now not only do you make grain and 457 00:29:19,079 --> 00:29:24,640 wall to for breweries, but also distilleries and bakeries and distilling. 458 00:29:24,839 --> 00:29:27,359 Is that it's is it picking up to like where 459 00:29:27,400 --> 00:29:29,319 craft beer is in main or is that more in 460 00:29:29,359 --> 00:29:30,200 the startup phase. 461 00:29:30,359 --> 00:29:35,880 Speaker 2: I would say that craft distilling feels to me in 462 00:29:36,000 --> 00:29:38,960 Maine specifically, I you know, I will say that, like, 463 00:29:40,119 --> 00:29:43,480 I know, there's a lot happening nationally with it, and 464 00:29:43,519 --> 00:29:45,160 there's actually a lot happening in main and I'm not 465 00:29:45,200 --> 00:29:48,680 saying that to say that there isn't, because I believe 466 00:29:48,839 --> 00:29:53,119 that craft distilling feels to me like it is where 467 00:29:53,480 --> 00:29:57,079 craft beer was when I started twelve years ago working 468 00:29:57,119 --> 00:30:02,279 on this. I think it's it's definitely still in the 469 00:30:02,279 --> 00:30:06,279 front side of its kind of growth decade that craft 470 00:30:06,279 --> 00:30:10,880 beer just had, and I think we're gonna see a 471 00:30:10,880 --> 00:30:14,200 lot of that craft as far as it relates to us. 472 00:30:14,240 --> 00:30:18,880 And like malting, obviously, distillers, well maybe not obviously. Again, 473 00:30:18,920 --> 00:30:21,839 I don't know how much different listeners know about this 474 00:30:21,920 --> 00:30:25,000 still in process, but you have to make a fermented 475 00:30:25,079 --> 00:30:28,759 beverage like beer before you can distill it. But it's 476 00:30:28,799 --> 00:30:31,599 all a little bit different on the distilling their needs. 477 00:30:31,960 --> 00:30:35,440 And then there's available commercial enzymes, like you really can't 478 00:30:35,519 --> 00:30:37,599 use it growing, but you can use the distilling. So 479 00:30:38,400 --> 00:30:43,359 you see those enzymes being used a lot in your 480 00:30:43,680 --> 00:30:47,759 You've got a lot of corn based spirits or other 481 00:30:48,319 --> 00:30:52,839 product based spirits. There's not always malted grain and every 482 00:30:53,039 --> 00:30:58,400 spirit that you drink. But what's exciting is that for 483 00:30:58,400 --> 00:31:01,039 for us and for the multi grain inside of it 484 00:31:01,079 --> 00:31:06,240 is that there's a new category of American single more 485 00:31:06,279 --> 00:31:10,480 whiskey and potentially it probably has come up on this 486 00:31:10,960 --> 00:31:15,960 podcast before. I would suspect and that that is a 487 00:31:16,000 --> 00:31:21,519 new category of whiskey that a lot of craft distillers 488 00:31:21,799 --> 00:31:25,960 are developing products in. It is it has to be 489 00:31:26,079 --> 00:31:31,480 all produced in you know, one distillery made of all 490 00:31:31,559 --> 00:31:38,559 malted grain. I I do think that there are definitions 491 00:31:38,599 --> 00:31:40,960 that you can find on the web, and I don't 492 00:31:41,000 --> 00:31:43,680 trust myself on the spot to give you the right one. 493 00:31:44,039 --> 00:31:47,480 But but what's really exciting for us is that, you know, 494 00:31:47,519 --> 00:31:52,559 we have a stilling customer, wiggly Bridge, that has been 495 00:31:52,559 --> 00:31:57,559 working with us since the beginning of our facility back 496 00:31:57,599 --> 00:32:02,000 in twenty fifteen. And they you know, sat on there 497 00:32:02,240 --> 00:32:05,200 on the on the whiskey that they're working with asan 498 00:32:05,319 --> 00:32:07,480 for a while. But they've been doing this like single 499 00:32:07,559 --> 00:32:10,640 Multimerican whiskey for a while and you know, have Jeff 500 00:32:11,079 --> 00:32:15,319 just actually won some awards for it. I think one 501 00:32:15,359 --> 00:32:20,119 of the as you know, brewing, I know a little 502 00:32:20,119 --> 00:32:23,559 more about distilling. You know, we're I'm still learning a 503 00:32:23,559 --> 00:32:28,359 lot about it. And I remember Dave Woods, the distiller 504 00:32:28,400 --> 00:32:31,799 and owner just talking about how he uses one of 505 00:32:31,799 --> 00:32:34,640 our more specialty like higher kilned moths, and one of 506 00:32:34,680 --> 00:32:37,400 the reasons he does that for his whiskey is he's like, 507 00:32:37,599 --> 00:32:42,640 distilling is a stripping process, so you're moving things, you're 508 00:32:42,680 --> 00:32:47,799 not adding anything, and so you having that really high 509 00:32:47,839 --> 00:32:50,720 quality ingredient, that ingredient that is giving a lot of 510 00:32:50,920 --> 00:32:55,839 you know, extra flavoring character is adding to his whiskey 511 00:32:55,920 --> 00:32:58,440 because he can keep that in there if it's in there, 512 00:32:58,440 --> 00:33:00,640 but it can't add it if it's not in there. 513 00:33:01,039 --> 00:33:04,200 So you know, he really you know, has like has 514 00:33:04,319 --> 00:33:08,599 leaned it into that and and produces a really delicious product. 515 00:33:08,680 --> 00:33:12,160 So we're we're excited. We're working with some more distilleries too. 516 00:33:12,240 --> 00:33:14,720 So you know, recently as pick up. 517 00:33:14,759 --> 00:33:19,720 Speaker 1: Now you recently expanded. What new capabilities does this added 518 00:33:19,799 --> 00:33:22,599 space provide for you? Are you doing different things now 519 00:33:22,960 --> 00:33:25,839 that you weren't able to do, say six we. 520 00:33:25,720 --> 00:33:27,799 Speaker 2: Were doing things that we could see Now we're producing 521 00:33:27,880 --> 00:33:29,960 like twice as much malted. 522 00:33:30,359 --> 00:33:34,079 Speaker 1: That we could we tred good for you. 523 00:33:34,440 --> 00:33:37,599 Speaker 2: Yeah, Yeah, we were sort of capped out on our 524 00:33:37,680 --> 00:33:41,240 old maulting for for several years now, so it's been 525 00:33:41,319 --> 00:33:46,240 fun to get these larger floors operational because what we've 526 00:33:46,279 --> 00:33:49,920 been able to do is move our pail and our 527 00:33:50,400 --> 00:33:55,359 pills and our malts over to and in some of 528 00:33:55,400 --> 00:33:57,720 our mute malts over to the large systems, and that 529 00:33:57,839 --> 00:34:00,359 screed up this old system for us to do really 530 00:34:00,400 --> 00:34:07,359 fun projects with. So we are, for example, taking a 531 00:34:07,440 --> 00:34:10,320 grain a grain from a grower that is just a 532 00:34:10,400 --> 00:34:13,840 town over from us, and they don't have very much grain. 533 00:34:14,000 --> 00:34:16,360 It sounds it might sound like lots done initiative, but 534 00:34:16,400 --> 00:34:21,840 they've got like three four thousand pounds up and we're 535 00:34:21,840 --> 00:34:24,719 going to be able to take that grain, malt it 536 00:34:25,039 --> 00:34:29,280 and provide it to the breeze that are located in 537 00:34:29,320 --> 00:34:31,559 that town or adjacent to it. So they're going to 538 00:34:31,639 --> 00:34:34,679 do this like hyper local project or really excited about it. 539 00:34:35,320 --> 00:34:37,639 That's definitely a project we want to have the production 540 00:34:37,719 --> 00:34:41,440 space for if we hadn't opened this up. But we're 541 00:34:41,480 --> 00:34:47,400 also doing some really fun other projects. Smoking is one 542 00:34:47,480 --> 00:34:50,400 that again with the new floors, we've been able to 543 00:34:50,599 --> 00:34:53,480 open up time and production space to really r and 544 00:34:53,559 --> 00:34:56,920 d with our smoking. So we do a lot of 545 00:34:57,360 --> 00:35:01,800 sort of custom smoking project and we've got some smoking 546 00:35:01,840 --> 00:35:06,039 projects around Seaweeds right now. Which create these really delicious 547 00:35:06,719 --> 00:35:12,719 unanis or smoked malts, And we just did some alder 548 00:35:12,760 --> 00:35:17,480 smoked malt for a customer. And we're happy to play 549 00:35:17,519 --> 00:35:20,320 around with anything. I mean, you always ask if we 550 00:35:20,360 --> 00:35:23,159 do a pete. I don't do pete because my background 551 00:35:23,159 --> 00:35:26,360 and sustainability is like pete's not a renewable resource, so 552 00:35:26,360 --> 00:35:28,599 I don't like to cut that out of the ground. 553 00:35:28,800 --> 00:35:31,400 But we're really happy we're playing with some like waste 554 00:35:31,480 --> 00:35:36,559 products from the coffee uh brought the coffee roasting process 555 00:35:36,679 --> 00:35:39,480 and really trying to be creative with that. So that's 556 00:35:39,519 --> 00:35:42,320 been really fun. And then the big new piece of 557 00:35:42,360 --> 00:35:47,920 equipment that we're just getting sort of going during recording 558 00:35:47,920 --> 00:35:52,679 this podcast is our roaster. So in the past we've 559 00:35:52,719 --> 00:35:57,320 done some really fun chocolate rise and some other really 560 00:35:57,360 --> 00:36:04,000 delicious roasting malts. Malted grain tends to catch on fire 561 00:36:04,119 --> 00:36:08,320 really quickly, so a lot of coffee roasters don't like 562 00:36:08,480 --> 00:36:11,199 to don't like to let us roast our grain and 563 00:36:11,559 --> 00:36:16,199 in their roasters. So we were producing some roasted malts 564 00:36:16,239 --> 00:36:19,440 a few years ago, pre pandemic, and then the cop 565 00:36:19,519 --> 00:36:22,000 the roaster decided that it was a little too dangerous. 566 00:36:22,039 --> 00:36:24,280 He was a little uncomfortable. We've we've been out of 567 00:36:24,360 --> 00:36:27,760 roasted malts for several years, but excited to add that 568 00:36:27,880 --> 00:36:32,360 back into our schedule. So that's going to be a 569 00:36:32,480 --> 00:36:33,719 really fun for us as well. 570 00:36:34,159 --> 00:36:39,719 Speaker 1: Oh, it sounds good that the partners on the fire. Yeah. Well, Joe, 571 00:36:40,079 --> 00:36:41,960 I thank you so much for coming on. This has 572 00:36:42,000 --> 00:36:44,880 been fascinating to learn a little bit more about malt, 573 00:36:45,039 --> 00:36:47,519 to learn about your company. Later on in the show, 574 00:36:47,880 --> 00:36:50,679 I'm going to have a couple of beers from breweries 575 00:36:50,719 --> 00:36:54,039 that use malt from Blue Ox, so I'm looking forward 576 00:36:54,079 --> 00:36:57,400 to that. Check out Blue Ox Malt. Howles, Joel, thank 577 00:36:57,400 --> 00:36:59,599 you so much again, I really do appreciate it. Thank 578 00:36:59,639 --> 00:37:00,320 you so much, Dave. 579 00:37:00,400 --> 00:37:02,960 Speaker 2: I really enjoyed speaking with you, and I appreciate your 580 00:37:02,960 --> 00:37:03,880 thoughtful questions. 581 00:37:13,199 --> 00:37:15,239 Speaker 1: All Right, the beer that's in front of me now 582 00:37:15,559 --> 00:37:19,639 is a classic one from Main Beer Company. This is Lunch. 583 00:37:20,280 --> 00:37:23,119 I've had this on the show before and it's a 584 00:37:23,199 --> 00:37:27,360 great beer. But I wanted to have some beers from 585 00:37:27,480 --> 00:37:32,159 Blue Ox and the malt that they provide, so Lunch 586 00:37:32,239 --> 00:37:35,280 is one of them. Maybe that's why it's so good. 587 00:37:35,599 --> 00:37:37,400 So I'm gonna have this and I'm gonna have another 588 00:37:37,480 --> 00:37:40,239 one later on. In the show. So let's crack open 589 00:37:40,280 --> 00:37:54,920 the lunch. Lunch is a nice, beautiful color here, a 590 00:37:54,960 --> 00:37:58,079 little darker than your usual. I pa good use of 591 00:37:58,159 --> 00:38:05,559 caramel malts here, really look great. Good, couple fingers of foam. 592 00:38:05,760 --> 00:38:09,840 Smells really good. I get a lot of like citrus here, 593 00:38:10,000 --> 00:38:14,400 like grapefruit, maybe some orange in the aroma. It smells 594 00:38:14,519 --> 00:38:20,440 really good. Some sweetness from the malt. I can't wait. 595 00:38:20,440 --> 00:38:24,719 This is such a great beer. Yeah, that's really good, 596 00:38:25,800 --> 00:38:29,360 well balanced. Like the sweetness hits me up front. You 597 00:38:29,440 --> 00:38:32,679 get those caramel malts in there, so you get some 598 00:38:32,800 --> 00:38:36,400 of that. Then the hops hit you. They use Amarillo 599 00:38:36,960 --> 00:38:41,599 Centennial in simcohops. This is a seven percent beer and 600 00:38:41,639 --> 00:38:44,719 it's just great, and especially I don't know how old 601 00:38:44,760 --> 00:38:47,360 the last one I had was, but since this is 602 00:38:47,360 --> 00:38:51,159 only a couple weeks old, it really hits the spot. Yeah, 603 00:38:51,199 --> 00:38:54,840 that's that's just perfect. Like this is something you would 604 00:38:54,880 --> 00:38:59,360 have every day. It's phenomenal. I remember Ruby and I 605 00:38:59,440 --> 00:39:02,679 were there before I really even heard of them, Like 606 00:39:02,760 --> 00:39:06,000 this was probably eight years ago and we were there, 607 00:39:06,079 --> 00:39:09,119 and you know, you go somewhere, yo, you've got a 608 00:39:09,159 --> 00:39:11,559 Google breweries near me, And this was one of the 609 00:39:11,559 --> 00:39:14,480 ones that popped open, so we hit them up and 610 00:39:14,519 --> 00:39:16,800 it was like, oh, yeah, this is good. I wish 611 00:39:16,880 --> 00:39:19,960 we had this in Chicago all the time, but Lunch 612 00:39:20,079 --> 00:39:21,719 is a great beer. If you could pick it up, 613 00:39:22,079 --> 00:39:26,039 definitely have to. It's a classic beer. It's well renowned. 614 00:39:26,320 --> 00:39:29,000 Everybody loves this beer. You never heard anybody say a 615 00:39:29,039 --> 00:39:31,719 bad word about this. So if you see this from 616 00:39:31,760 --> 00:39:34,880 Main Beer Company, you definitely have to put this one 617 00:39:34,960 --> 00:39:47,000 in the carts, all right. I wanted to do another 618 00:39:47,119 --> 00:39:51,159 beer that utilizes malt from Blue Ox, and what better 619 00:39:51,199 --> 00:39:56,559 one to have than ali Gash White. This is a 620 00:39:56,840 --> 00:40:02,599 highly decorated Belgian white beer. It's probably the one you 621 00:40:02,719 --> 00:40:07,840 think of the most. It's iconic. It's just a terrific beer. 622 00:40:07,880 --> 00:40:11,719 I talk about it on the show before. It's just 623 00:40:12,079 --> 00:40:15,599 a phenomenal beer and you can find it everywhere. And 624 00:40:15,880 --> 00:40:18,639 one of the main reasons why it's because it's so good. 625 00:40:19,079 --> 00:40:22,559 So let's crack open the Allagash White. This is a 626 00:40:22,559 --> 00:40:27,199 Belgian style wheak beer five point two percent alcohol and 627 00:40:27,239 --> 00:40:43,199 it's brewed with coriander and kirasow orange peel. It's just 628 00:40:43,320 --> 00:40:49,119 such a beautiful light, hazy color, but like super bright. 629 00:40:49,679 --> 00:40:53,800 Good couple fingers of egg shell foam here looks great 630 00:40:53,800 --> 00:40:56,360 and like the foam looks rich and creamy too. Not 631 00:40:56,559 --> 00:40:59,960 like something that's gonna dissipate. This is something that's gonna 632 00:41:00,159 --> 00:41:03,159 to your mustache. Smells really good. Definitely get like the 633 00:41:03,199 --> 00:41:06,679 orange peel and the coriander from the aroma. Just a 634 00:41:06,840 --> 00:41:09,920 lovely smelling beer that's just so good. I mean, there's 635 00:41:09,920 --> 00:41:14,920 a reason why you could find this at every liquor store, 636 00:41:15,039 --> 00:41:18,519 gas station, grocery store around because it's iconic and it's 637 00:41:18,639 --> 00:41:22,559 just so flipping good. I think for me and my 638 00:41:22,719 --> 00:41:28,360 taste buzz, the coriander is really like coming through, that's 639 00:41:28,400 --> 00:41:30,760 hitting me up front. I get a little of the 640 00:41:30,880 --> 00:41:36,280 orange at the end, but that coriander that really like 641 00:41:36,400 --> 00:41:41,320 slaps me up front and off the subject. But I 642 00:41:41,360 --> 00:41:46,079 am one of the ten percent that I can't eat cilantro. 643 00:41:46,639 --> 00:41:51,679 To me, it tastes like dish soap and coriander is 644 00:41:51,800 --> 00:41:57,360 part of the cilantro family. But coriander doesn't like affect 645 00:41:57,400 --> 00:42:00,199 me like I could have this and it's fine, just 646 00:42:00,239 --> 00:42:04,679 does not taste like this show. It tastes delicious, But 647 00:42:04,840 --> 00:42:07,559 all right, back to the beer. But no, the coriander 648 00:42:07,599 --> 00:42:11,039 really hits me up front that orange is coming through 649 00:42:11,039 --> 00:42:15,039 at the end. It's just a beautiful beer finish as well. 650 00:42:15,079 --> 00:42:18,039 The foam is still here. It hasn't died down at all. 651 00:42:18,360 --> 00:42:21,679 It's just a lovely beer. Like before this came out 652 00:42:21,760 --> 00:42:24,840 or before it was available, you know, here in Chicago 653 00:42:24,920 --> 00:42:28,159 where I'm from, I remember back in the late nineties 654 00:42:28,519 --> 00:42:33,320 drinking cell Us White from Pierre Cellus that was distributed here. 655 00:42:33,960 --> 00:42:39,800 That was probably my first entry into this style, and 656 00:42:39,880 --> 00:42:44,960 I still love that beer. I you know, three years ago, 657 00:42:45,000 --> 00:42:48,159 maybe man, maybe even four years ago, I did a 658 00:42:48,239 --> 00:42:51,760 show on that and I talked to an author about 659 00:42:51,760 --> 00:42:55,239 Pierre Cellis that's a great beer. Years ago, before I 660 00:42:55,239 --> 00:42:58,599 even started doing this podcast, I went down to Austin 661 00:42:59,079 --> 00:43:02,559 because his fan, Emily, opened up a brewery there with 662 00:43:02,679 --> 00:43:06,719 allegedly his recipes. And it's such a cool story. If 663 00:43:06,760 --> 00:43:09,440 you're a fan of this, you should definitely if you 664 00:43:09,480 --> 00:43:12,519 have one already, some people are novices. If you're not. 665 00:43:13,079 --> 00:43:15,760 If you don't know the story of Pierre Cells you 666 00:43:15,800 --> 00:43:19,599 should look it up because it's a fascinating story. And 667 00:43:19,679 --> 00:43:23,599 he was the one that started like Hugarden and then 668 00:43:23,679 --> 00:43:27,199 brought the beer over here to America. So you definitely. 669 00:43:27,239 --> 00:43:29,840 If I'm drinking Alligash white, you need to give a 670 00:43:29,880 --> 00:43:35,000 shout out to Pierre Cellis who started this whole Belgian 671 00:43:35,079 --> 00:43:39,880 white style. But Aligash is phenomenal. If you see it, 672 00:43:39,920 --> 00:43:42,360 and I mentioned you could get it anywhere, put it 673 00:43:42,400 --> 00:43:45,519 in the cart. It's just a fabulous beer and it's 674 00:43:45,559 --> 00:43:50,199 made better with Blue Ox Malt. All right, that's going 675 00:43:50,239 --> 00:43:52,920 to wrap things up for this edition of Beer in Front. 676 00:43:53,280 --> 00:43:55,599 I thank you very much for listening. I want to 677 00:43:55,599 --> 00:43:59,840 thank Joel Alex who's the founder of Blue Ox Malt House, 678 00:44:00,199 --> 00:44:02,920 for coming on and talking Walt. So Joel, thank you 679 00:44:03,039 --> 00:44:05,239 very much. If you need to get a hold of me, 680 00:44:05,280 --> 00:44:09,400 you can email me Dave at beerinfront dot com. If 681 00:44:09,400 --> 00:44:12,039 you'd like to support the show, please head over to 682 00:44:12,119 --> 00:44:15,559 Patreon dot com slash beer in Front and you could 683 00:44:15,599 --> 00:44:18,880 help support the show. Since I'm flying solo. Now, have 684 00:44:18,960 --> 00:44:20,960 a great week. I'll talk to you next week, and 685 00:44:21,079 --> 00:44:24,679 remember sometimes the beer in front of you is the 686 00:44:24,679 --> 00:44:25,559 best one yet.