WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.080 --> 00:00:02.480 My man's been busy today. He was on Sports Center 2 00:00:02.560 --> 00:00:04.519 earlier Hoop Collective. 3 00:00:04.679 --> 00:00:05.120 Of course. 4 00:00:05.240 --> 00:00:08.199 I got Tim bontemp saw on a Thursday afternoon prior 5 00:00:08.279 --> 00:00:10.720 to Game one of the NBA Finals, Timmy, Happy Thursday. 6 00:00:10.720 --> 00:00:14.640 Man, how you doing? Sorry, I'm good. I've got to 7 00:00:14.679 --> 00:00:16.879 start here. I don't know, man. 8 00:00:17.239 --> 00:00:20.839 Six seven weeks ago I was listening to as a 9 00:00:20.879 --> 00:00:23.440 fan of the Hoop Collective of course, having you and 10 00:00:23.519 --> 00:00:27.239 mcmahonnon quite a bit, and it felt about like a 11 00:00:27.239 --> 00:00:29.120 month and a half ago. You said something on the 12 00:00:29.160 --> 00:00:32.039 pod that you felt like there's a chance that Tom 13 00:00:32.079 --> 00:00:34.320 Thibodeau could be in some trouble, and I just went 14 00:00:34.359 --> 00:00:37.399 what it didn't make sense to me, and I will 15 00:00:37.439 --> 00:00:39.479 admit my bias right out of the gates. Tom was 16 00:00:39.520 --> 00:00:41.719 Jeff's assistant back in the day, as you know, and 17 00:00:42.280 --> 00:00:44.719 as a fan of this team since I was a kid, 18 00:00:45.000 --> 00:00:49.079 enjoying them being relevant has been fun. And I feel 19 00:00:49.079 --> 00:00:51.000 like they were ahead of schedule this year going to 20 00:00:51.000 --> 00:00:54.280 the Eastern Conference finals. Yet he's out in New York. 21 00:00:54.439 --> 00:00:57.159 So obviously you were on a some set that most 22 00:00:57.200 --> 00:00:58.159 people weren't. 23 00:00:58.520 --> 00:00:59.520 Six seven weeks ago. 24 00:01:00.200 --> 00:01:03.359 You say that then, and what's your understanding of how 25 00:01:03.359 --> 00:01:06.239 this all went down today, I mean. 26 00:01:06.120 --> 00:01:09.760 I just think ultimately, this is a situation where, you know, 27 00:01:10.799 --> 00:01:13.560 I think the irony of it is you had all 28 00:01:13.599 --> 00:01:16.599 these people who were saying things about, you know, Tom's 29 00:01:16.760 --> 00:01:21.120 usage of players and votation stuff and all this other stuff, 30 00:01:21.120 --> 00:01:24.000 and I don't think any of that stuff is why 31 00:01:24.719 --> 00:01:26.599 the Knicks are going to be finding a new coach. 32 00:01:26.640 --> 00:01:28.840 I think it's you know, if you look at Tom's history, 33 00:01:28.920 --> 00:01:31.359 and I like you, I also personally like Tom a lot, 34 00:01:32.319 --> 00:01:34.760 but if you look at his history, you know, both 35 00:01:34.760 --> 00:01:37.959 in Chicago and Minneapolis, after a while, he you know, 36 00:01:38.120 --> 00:01:40.400 wore people down and they eventually decided they wanted to 37 00:01:40.480 --> 00:01:42.280 have a different voice leading the team. And I think 38 00:01:42.319 --> 00:01:45.280 that's really along and short of what happened here, and 39 00:01:46.040 --> 00:01:50.120 you know, it's it's certainly going to be interesting to 40 00:01:50.159 --> 00:01:53.760 see what the Knicks do. They obviously had a really 41 00:01:53.760 --> 00:01:56.719 good season. They have made it clear by letting Tom 42 00:01:56.799 --> 00:01:59.359 go now that the only thing that's acceptable next year 43 00:01:59.840 --> 00:02:02.640 is making the finals. Anything short of that will be 44 00:02:02.719 --> 00:02:05.799 a disappointment. And it is not clear to me that 45 00:02:05.840 --> 00:02:08.080 they're a going to be the favorite to make the 46 00:02:08.120 --> 00:02:10.840 finals next year and b that they're going to find 47 00:02:10.840 --> 00:02:13.159 a coach will be better over the course of the 48 00:02:13.199 --> 00:02:15.000 eighty two games in the playoffs, and Tom Thibodau is 49 00:02:15.000 --> 00:02:18.120 this year for the Knicks. But that being said, they 50 00:02:18.159 --> 00:02:20.759 clearly decided they wanted a different voice to be around 51 00:02:20.759 --> 00:02:23.520 the team and to try to get it to the 52 00:02:23.520 --> 00:02:26.360 next level. And there have been times in the past 53 00:02:26.400 --> 00:02:28.759 when this has worked, like when the Raptors went from 54 00:02:28.800 --> 00:02:30.800 doing case it didn't it Nurse, and when the Warriors 55 00:02:30.840 --> 00:02:33.599 went from Mark Jackson and Steve Kerr. And then there's 56 00:02:33.599 --> 00:02:36.080 been times when it really didn't work, like when Milwaukee 57 00:02:36.080 --> 00:02:39.599 went from Mike Budenholzer and Adrian Griffin and when the 58 00:02:39.680 --> 00:02:43.520 Bulls went from Tom Thibdau himself to Fredeiberg. So only 59 00:02:43.560 --> 00:02:47.319 time will really tell whether this is going to be, 60 00:02:47.479 --> 00:02:50.319 you know, one of those two paths. But you know, 61 00:02:51.039 --> 00:02:52.719 you have to say that for the Knicks to do 62 00:02:52.759 --> 00:02:56.560 this right now, it certainly puts them in a position 63 00:02:56.599 --> 00:02:58.960 where there's not a lot of room for them to 64 00:02:58.960 --> 00:03:02.599 succeed with it. And you know, there was already going 65 00:03:02.639 --> 00:03:05.639 to be really high expectations in New York after the 66 00:03:05.680 --> 00:03:08.039 way the season went, and I mean, as you know 67 00:03:08.319 --> 00:03:11.360 from personal experience, like how much people are desperate for 68 00:03:11.400 --> 00:03:14.520 this now fifty two year title drop to end, and 69 00:03:14.879 --> 00:03:17.520 there's only going to be more pressure and more expectations 70 00:03:17.560 --> 00:03:19.159 now that the Knicks have made this move and made 71 00:03:19.199 --> 00:03:22.319 it clear what the acceptable outcome is, and if it's 72 00:03:22.319 --> 00:03:25.120 not that, then there's going to be questions about what 73 00:03:25.199 --> 00:03:25.800 happens next. 74 00:03:27.360 --> 00:03:31.199 So Tim, it just reeks of the kind of emotional, 75 00:03:31.319 --> 00:03:35.800 knee jerk move that that kazoo blowing, fedoro wearing idiot 76 00:03:35.960 --> 00:03:39.479 makes all the time as the owner of the organization, 77 00:03:39.919 --> 00:03:43.120 And to me, it's a testament as to why they 78 00:03:43.159 --> 00:03:46.479 have been so irrelevant for basically twenty five years. Was 79 00:03:46.520 --> 00:03:49.639 this a Dolen thing? Was it a Leon thing? I've 80 00:03:49.639 --> 00:03:53.080 heard all the rumors that it's a cat thing, CAA whatever, 81 00:03:53.159 --> 00:03:56.479 But Tom's the CAA guy as well, rumors that he 82 00:03:56.520 --> 00:03:59.039 didn't get along with Worldwide West. My guess is Tom 83 00:03:59.080 --> 00:04:02.319 probably doesn't love guy that calls himself Worldwide West. I 84 00:04:02.319 --> 00:04:04.879 don't know how did this go down, Why was this 85 00:04:04.960 --> 00:04:05.800 decision made. 86 00:04:09.400 --> 00:04:11.360 It's probably gonna sound like a duck. I don't think 87 00:04:11.400 --> 00:04:15.599 it really matters, honestly, Like I think at the end 88 00:04:15.599 --> 00:04:18.519 of the day, like I said, I think it if 89 00:04:18.519 --> 00:04:20.240 you come, if it comes if you look at the 90 00:04:20.279 --> 00:04:23.759 way this played out. If you fire Tom, now it's 91 00:04:23.800 --> 00:04:27.000 not because of the results, right, So it's because of 92 00:04:27.000 --> 00:04:31.639 other stuff. And the first line of the release from 93 00:04:31.720 --> 00:04:33.720 the Knicks, because Leon Rose is not going to do 94 00:04:33.839 --> 00:04:36.639 media because he's done one interview in five years and 95 00:04:36.720 --> 00:04:40.399 it was four years ago. The first line of the 96 00:04:40.399 --> 00:04:42.560 release said, our goal is to bring a championship to 97 00:04:42.600 --> 00:04:45.800 our fans. So the Knicks have made it clear that 98 00:04:45.839 --> 00:04:49.360 whoever they hired to be the coach, like the expectation 99 00:04:49.519 --> 00:04:51.319 is they're gonna have to win a title or they're 100 00:04:51.360 --> 00:04:54.000 gonna have to be in the finals. And you know, 101 00:04:54.240 --> 00:04:58.759 I think they decided as a group that Tob wasn't 102 00:04:58.759 --> 00:05:03.000 the guy to get him there. And you know, I think, 103 00:05:03.720 --> 00:05:07.560 I mean, there's always been all sorts of different bases 104 00:05:07.600 --> 00:05:12.079 of power at MSG, but I don't at this point, 105 00:05:12.079 --> 00:05:14.839 I just don't really think the the why is all 106 00:05:14.879 --> 00:05:20.040 that relevant other than to me, you better get this higher, right. 107 00:05:20.120 --> 00:05:22.759 I thought McMahon said it well on the pod we 108 00:05:22.800 --> 00:05:24.480 did today, Like, if you're going to make this move 109 00:05:24.480 --> 00:05:27.639 and you're going to fire Tom, you can't mess it 110 00:05:27.759 --> 00:05:31.800 up because like whatever you want to say three you know, again, 111 00:05:31.839 --> 00:05:34.199 if you want to argue that it was time for 112 00:05:34.240 --> 00:05:37.560 a change with Tom, like, that's all well and good, 113 00:05:37.879 --> 00:05:40.480 But if the Knicks hire or some coach went forty 114 00:05:40.480 --> 00:05:44.040 five games next year, or you know, losing the first 115 00:05:44.079 --> 00:05:47.439 or second round of the playoffs, then there's going to 116 00:05:47.480 --> 00:05:49.160 be posles to do a lot more than just change 117 00:05:49.160 --> 00:05:52.800 the coach. And that's why this is a pretty high 118 00:05:52.839 --> 00:05:56.600 wire act for everybody. And you're about the long standing 119 00:05:56.639 --> 00:06:00.240 dysfunction of the Knicks, like, this is the first time 120 00:06:00.240 --> 00:06:02.600 the Knicks have won three a playoff series. Three is 121 00:06:02.600 --> 00:06:08.519 in a row. The nineties brought a level of ability 122 00:06:08.639 --> 00:06:11.879 and structure to the organization that was not there before. 123 00:06:12.600 --> 00:06:15.360 And you know, like, I think there's a very good 124 00:06:15.439 --> 00:06:17.040 chance that whoever they hire will not do as good 125 00:06:17.040 --> 00:06:20.759 a job as it. But I think the basic way 126 00:06:20.800 --> 00:06:22.360 you can look at it, I think is if you 127 00:06:22.439 --> 00:06:26.199 fire a guy after getting to the conference finals for 128 00:06:26.240 --> 00:06:29.240 the first time in twenty five years, you're not firing 129 00:06:29.319 --> 00:06:30.720 him because of the job he did. 130 00:06:32.560 --> 00:06:35.560 So this is a much more attractive job than it 131 00:06:35.639 --> 00:06:39.839 has been probably since Jeff was fired. And you pointed 132 00:06:39.839 --> 00:06:43.120 this out earlier, and to be fair, I think ninety 133 00:06:43.160 --> 00:06:47.279 nine percent of Dolan's tenure as his you know, being 134 00:06:47.279 --> 00:06:49.199 the steward of both the Knicks and the Rangers, have 135 00:06:49.279 --> 00:06:53.639 been pathetically embarrassing on his part, but the one percent 136 00:06:53.879 --> 00:06:56.079 that he has always done and will continue to do 137 00:06:56.160 --> 00:06:58.519 as he writes checks, he spends on front office, he 138 00:06:58.600 --> 00:07:01.560 spends on coaches, he spends on players, and it's a 139 00:07:01.560 --> 00:07:02.160 good roster. 140 00:07:02.279 --> 00:07:03.600 It is. This is a good job. 141 00:07:04.040 --> 00:07:04.319 I was. 142 00:07:04.680 --> 00:07:06.920 I was surprised to hear McMahon say that he does 143 00:07:07.000 --> 00:07:09.560 think there's a little traction of this Jason Kids stuff, 144 00:07:10.199 --> 00:07:12.680 Johnny Bryant who played his college ball out here and 145 00:07:12.839 --> 00:07:15.360 was a developmental coach with the Jazz before going to 146 00:07:15.360 --> 00:07:19.199 New York and then Cleveland, Jay Wright, you know the names. 147 00:07:19.399 --> 00:07:20.800 So who do you think gets the job? 148 00:07:20.839 --> 00:07:21.120 Tommy? 149 00:07:22.199 --> 00:07:24.600 I really don't know, And I think that's part of 150 00:07:24.600 --> 00:07:27.160 what makes this so interesting is that there isn't an 151 00:07:27.199 --> 00:07:33.480 obvious choice. It was just not and I don't That's 152 00:07:33.519 --> 00:07:35.839 what makes it so interesting to see ultimately what the 153 00:07:35.879 --> 00:07:38.360 Knicks decide to do and how it's going to go, 154 00:07:38.839 --> 00:07:41.279 because it's a great job. Like they have a ton 155 00:07:41.319 --> 00:07:44.439 of talent. The East is wide open, The thunder are 156 00:07:44.439 --> 00:07:47.680 not sitting there, like these players are under contract, they 157 00:07:47.680 --> 00:07:50.079 have runway, they're all in their prime, right, Like there's 158 00:07:50.480 --> 00:07:52.240 there are a lot of things about this nick job 159 00:07:52.639 --> 00:07:54.399 that are really attractive. It is the Knicks. You're at 160 00:07:54.439 --> 00:07:56.600 the garden. They're going to pay, like they're going to 161 00:07:56.720 --> 00:08:00.079 attract players, Like there are a ton of positives and 162 00:08:00.120 --> 00:08:01.879 Leon Rose has done a really good job since taken 163 00:08:01.879 --> 00:08:04.319 over the team five years ago. Like again, like you've 164 00:08:04.319 --> 00:08:05.879 got on the list. There's a whole bunch of stuff 165 00:08:06.000 --> 00:08:07.680 like yeah, man, like this Nick's job is as good 166 00:08:07.680 --> 00:08:10.199 a job as you can find, really, But at the 167 00:08:10.240 --> 00:08:13.519 same time, there's not a guy sitting there where you go, 168 00:08:13.759 --> 00:08:18.120 oh hey, like this this is the number one guy 169 00:08:18.160 --> 00:08:20.759 to go get this job and it's just slam Dominican 170 00:08:20.759 --> 00:08:22.079 and they're going to slide him right in it. It's 171 00:08:22.079 --> 00:08:25.120 going to be great. So that's why I say, I 172 00:08:25.680 --> 00:08:28.560 mean to me, I do think there's a very real 173 00:08:28.720 --> 00:08:32.600 chance that whoever the Knicks hire will not do as 174 00:08:32.600 --> 00:08:36.879 well as Tom did. But that is why it's such 175 00:08:36.879 --> 00:08:40.480 a fascinating decision, and it's why what they do and 176 00:08:40.559 --> 00:08:43.720 how it goes is going to be an awfully, awfully 177 00:08:43.759 --> 00:08:47.320 interesting thing to watch over the next year or so 178 00:08:47.600 --> 00:08:49.759 as they make this decision over the next few weeks, 179 00:08:49.799 --> 00:08:52.080 and then we see how the roster looks next year 180 00:08:52.120 --> 00:08:53.720 and how the team performs with the new coach. 181 00:08:54.919 --> 00:08:57.399 All Right, moving out this way, it was, it's been 182 00:08:57.480 --> 00:08:59.759 kind of a surprising busy news cycle here and saw 183 00:08:59.840 --> 00:09:03.080 like city. So the Jazz hired Austin Ange as their 184 00:09:03.159 --> 00:09:08.120 president of basketball ops, and during the presser, Ryan Smith 185 00:09:08.159 --> 00:09:10.559 had a couple of very interesting lines, namely, this is 186 00:09:10.600 --> 00:09:11.360 Austin's show. 187 00:09:11.519 --> 00:09:13.799 He will be the loudest voice in the front office. 188 00:09:13.919 --> 00:09:18.840 Ironically enough, Austin's dad is reporting to him, as is 189 00:09:19.000 --> 00:09:22.279 Justin Zanik and I continue to say a penny for 190 00:09:22.360 --> 00:09:24.759 jay Z's thoughts in an honest moment. But nonetheless, he's 191 00:09:24.759 --> 00:09:27.120 an NBA GM. He'll be part of this brain trust. 192 00:09:27.639 --> 00:09:30.320 This comes on the heels of Ryan and Ashley locking 193 00:09:30.399 --> 00:09:33.960 up Will Hardy despite winning thirty four percent of his games. 194 00:09:34.320 --> 00:09:35.519 So it's been interesting. 195 00:09:36.080 --> 00:09:40.279 It's kind of the anti James Dolan approach. So what 196 00:09:40.320 --> 00:09:43.039 we have out here is a front office locked in 197 00:09:43.799 --> 00:09:46.159 for a long time, a front office with a lot 198 00:09:46.159 --> 00:09:50.639 of smart basketball decision makers whose pedigrees and resumes speak 199 00:09:50.679 --> 00:09:54.440 for themselves. Fourteen years for Austin and Boston and then 200 00:09:54.759 --> 00:09:57.559 he knows Will Hardy and Will gets a contract extension, 201 00:09:57.919 --> 00:10:01.639 so they have everything they need outside of players that 202 00:10:01.679 --> 00:10:04.039 are good at playing basketball, which of course needs to 203 00:10:04.039 --> 00:10:06.960 be figured out. What's your reaction to the news that 204 00:10:07.000 --> 00:10:09.720 Austin not only has been hired but appears to have 205 00:10:09.759 --> 00:10:11.039 been given the keys to the kingdom. 206 00:10:12.679 --> 00:10:14.200 Yeah. I mean I was the one who broke that 207 00:10:14.279 --> 00:10:17.360 news on Monday, so I would say that is that 208 00:10:17.480 --> 00:10:20.080 is the that is the case. I mean, he is 209 00:10:20.080 --> 00:10:22.399 going to be the president best Operations. He is going 210 00:10:22.480 --> 00:10:24.600 to be the voice there. I do think he and 211 00:10:24.759 --> 00:10:26.960 Justin Zannak will get along really well. I know both 212 00:10:26.960 --> 00:10:30.360 in a long time. I think synergy wise, that'll be good. 213 00:10:30.799 --> 00:10:33.919 I thought getting Ryan are getting Will Hardy locked up 214 00:10:33.960 --> 00:10:35.600 for a long time was a very smart move. Will 215 00:10:35.679 --> 00:10:37.960 is a great coach. It is not his fault. The 216 00:10:38.000 --> 00:10:41.080 team has won thirty four percent of its games while 217 00:10:41.080 --> 00:10:44.120 he's been in charge, easily. You know, I think he's 218 00:10:44.120 --> 00:10:46.480 already proven to be one of the best coaches in 219 00:10:46.480 --> 00:10:49.440 the league with just the limited abilities he's had to show. 220 00:10:50.519 --> 00:10:51.879 You know, in the first half of the first couple 221 00:10:51.879 --> 00:10:55.240 of years, he was on the sideline. So, like you said, 222 00:10:55.320 --> 00:10:58.080 I think if you look at the Jazz holistically, there's 223 00:10:58.120 --> 00:11:00.399 a lot to be excited about in terms of the 224 00:11:00.480 --> 00:11:03.039 direction of the franchise and the people that are in 225 00:11:03.080 --> 00:11:06.679 place to lead it forward over the next several years. 226 00:11:07.000 --> 00:11:10.080 But the hardest part is getting the talent, and to 227 00:11:10.159 --> 00:11:12.600 do that in part, you need luck. Right obviously the 228 00:11:12.720 --> 00:11:15.519 Jazz to not get luck in the lottery last month, 229 00:11:16.879 --> 00:11:19.080 but there are a lot of ways to get players. 230 00:11:19.200 --> 00:11:23.679 I think, as Austin also said on Monday, if you 231 00:11:23.720 --> 00:11:25.679 look at the teams that are playing in the finals, 232 00:11:25.720 --> 00:11:28.240 there are not a lot of super high draft picks 233 00:11:28.320 --> 00:11:30.240 on either team. I think there's one pick in the 234 00:11:30.240 --> 00:11:34.879 top five on both teams total. So certainly you can 235 00:11:34.879 --> 00:11:37.360 get down a lot of different ways, and they've got 236 00:11:37.399 --> 00:11:39.360 a lot of smart people, and you taugh to do that. 237 00:11:40.440 --> 00:11:43.240 And I think if you're just talking about the management 238 00:11:43.240 --> 00:11:46.879 structure of the team, between Danny and Austin and Justin 239 00:11:46.919 --> 00:11:50.320 and Will, I think that's it's not as good as 240 00:11:50.360 --> 00:11:53.399 any team in the league. It's certainly in the conversation 241 00:11:53.559 --> 00:11:57.279 with any elite coach in front office group in the league. 242 00:11:57.320 --> 00:12:00.399 So I think from that standpoint, and if you're a 243 00:12:00.440 --> 00:12:02.159 fan of the team, you should feel pretty good about 244 00:12:02.159 --> 00:12:05.960 the brain trust Blian Smith is put together. Now they've 245 00:12:05.960 --> 00:12:08.679 got to go get players. And when you know, I'm 246 00:12:08.679 --> 00:12:11.399 in Oklahoma City, you look at this Thunder team which 247 00:12:11.480 --> 00:12:14.159 is set up to be arguably in my opinion, that 248 00:12:14.159 --> 00:12:18.120 that's dynastic force in the league. If you're measuring yourself 249 00:12:18.159 --> 00:12:21.600 against them. It is a long long way to go 250 00:12:21.799 --> 00:12:23.720 to get from where the Jazz are to be anywhere 251 00:12:23.759 --> 00:12:28.039 within the same realm as that Thunder team. And that 252 00:12:28.120 --> 00:12:30.159 work has got to start this summer in terms of 253 00:12:30.159 --> 00:12:32.639 starting to get some players in there to start turning 254 00:12:32.639 --> 00:12:33.200 things around. 255 00:12:33.840 --> 00:12:37.080 So one of the most interesting tidbits of Austin's presser 256 00:12:37.120 --> 00:12:40.279 a couple of days ago is Sean O'Connell, who does 257 00:12:40.279 --> 00:12:43.279 our midday show and works for our station, asked Austin 258 00:12:43.600 --> 00:12:48.840 his personal opinion or philosophy on tanking or manipulating minutes in. Austin, 259 00:12:49.200 --> 00:12:51.200 with a little bit of a mic drop moment, just said, 260 00:12:51.200 --> 00:12:54.320 you will not see that this year, which is all 261 00:12:54.360 --> 00:12:57.200 finding good tim But here's the problem. As you know, 262 00:12:57.480 --> 00:12:59.759 the Jazz have a draft pick next year that's top 263 00:12:59.799 --> 00:13:01.919 eight protected, and if they're not in the top eight, 264 00:13:01.960 --> 00:13:05.399 it goes to you guessed the Oklahoma City Thunder, who, 265 00:13:05.480 --> 00:13:07.600 in my opinion, are about to win the World Championship. 266 00:13:08.080 --> 00:13:10.919 So there's a way you can do this, right. 267 00:13:11.000 --> 00:13:14.399 But you know, you know, to me, looking at what 268 00:13:14.639 --> 00:13:17.159 Washington did this year, you know, watching. 269 00:13:17.000 --> 00:13:18.960 Washing, can I cut you? Can I cut you off? 270 00:13:19.080 --> 00:13:19.279 Yeah? 271 00:13:19.279 --> 00:13:25.200 Go ahead, this this is very simple, right. I appreciate 272 00:13:25.919 --> 00:13:30.000 often answering that question the way he did. I would 273 00:13:30.039 --> 00:13:35.080 also just say, if you look at the NBA standings, right, 274 00:13:35.360 --> 00:13:38.000 and you look at the rosters of teams around the league, 275 00:13:38.799 --> 00:13:41.200 it's pretty easy to see a world where the Jazz 276 00:13:41.240 --> 00:13:42.879 try to win every game and have one of the 277 00:13:42.879 --> 00:13:46.960 five worst records in the league. So I think that 278 00:13:47.679 --> 00:13:50.559 you could both say we are not going to try 279 00:13:50.600 --> 00:13:55.240 to win seventeen games and also wind up winning twenty 280 00:13:55.279 --> 00:13:59.759 seven games and keeping the pick. Anyway, So I think, 281 00:14:00.480 --> 00:14:03.919 you know, I will be curious to see when you 282 00:14:03.960 --> 00:14:06.519 see that comment, the first thing you think is, well, 283 00:14:07.039 --> 00:14:10.519 there's one like guy who's in the vicinity of an 284 00:14:10.519 --> 00:14:13.919 All Star galliber player on the team, right, Loarry Marketing. 285 00:14:14.559 --> 00:14:16.879 What is Larry Marketing's future in Utah? I think that's 286 00:14:16.919 --> 00:14:19.679 an interesting question. But if you look at the rest 287 00:14:19.679 --> 00:14:22.679 of the team, like I think it was a terrific coach. 288 00:14:22.919 --> 00:14:25.639 But if you're playing your young guys a ton of minutes, 289 00:14:26.320 --> 00:14:28.440 and you know they've got two more first off pics 290 00:14:28.440 --> 00:14:30.720 this year, hopefully Taylor Hendricks is back healthy next year, 291 00:14:31.039 --> 00:14:32.960 there's you know they've got Chanta George that got well, 292 00:14:33.080 --> 00:14:36.080 you got all these young players they can play. The 293 00:14:36.080 --> 00:14:38.120 Wizards are a good example. They played a bunch of 294 00:14:38.159 --> 00:14:41.559 young players this year. They didn't necessarily, like you know, 295 00:14:42.159 --> 00:14:47.639 manipulate minutes, and they won twenty games. So I would 296 00:14:47.679 --> 00:14:51.000 just say that you can both lose a lot of 297 00:14:51.000 --> 00:14:55.279 games and not be quote unquote pinking. And I would 298 00:14:55.320 --> 00:14:57.799 bet a lot of money that the Utah Jazz are 299 00:14:57.840 --> 00:15:00.919 not giving up their draft pick to Thunder next year. 300 00:15:02.200 --> 00:15:04.960 So and ultimately, I was gonna land the plane where 301 00:15:05.000 --> 00:15:08.039 you landed it in a more salient way, because when 302 00:15:08.080 --> 00:15:11.759 I do look at this roster, you know, let's say 303 00:15:12.039 --> 00:15:16.480 lowry marketing Walker Kessler, they'll they're gonna try to move 304 00:15:16.519 --> 00:15:20.799 off the other vets Clarkson Collins and and Colin Sexton, 305 00:15:20.840 --> 00:15:23.000 and they'll probably be able to do that because finally 306 00:15:23.039 --> 00:15:26.360 those contracts are expiring this year. But if you look, 307 00:15:26.759 --> 00:15:29.840 you know, if you look at this roster, and they 308 00:15:29.879 --> 00:15:33.240 do put their best forward to best foot forward to compete, 309 00:15:33.679 --> 00:15:37.240 and Marketing is playing sixty five seventy games and Walker 310 00:15:37.519 --> 00:15:40.320 is playing sixty five seventy games and he's not shooting 311 00:15:40.360 --> 00:15:41.320 seven threes a night. 312 00:15:41.759 --> 00:15:43.639 You know, when they after they got fined. 313 00:15:44.639 --> 00:15:48.639 You're you're not wrong, Tim about the scenario that could 314 00:15:48.639 --> 00:15:51.720 be in play. My point is, I feel like that's 315 00:15:51.879 --> 00:15:55.360 really close to like thirty thirty five wins, and if 316 00:15:55.360 --> 00:15:58.080 we're sitting here, okay, okay, But but if. 317 00:15:57.960 --> 00:16:00.799 We're sitting and that's and that's because of how good 318 00:16:00.840 --> 00:16:01.559 the West. 319 00:16:01.360 --> 00:16:03.960 Is, and that's that's not wrong. That's not wrong. 320 00:16:04.039 --> 00:16:07.039 Your point about Will though, he's maximized every group he's had, 321 00:16:07.080 --> 00:16:10.600 and maybe they maybe market In play seventy five games 322 00:16:10.600 --> 00:16:12.879 with twenty two minutes a night. My fear is we're 323 00:16:12.879 --> 00:16:15.120 sitting here next spring and Mark Tatum pulls up the 324 00:16:15.200 --> 00:16:17.480 ninth pick and says the Utah Jazz are picking ninth, 325 00:16:17.480 --> 00:16:19.559 and it goes to OKC, that would be a massive 326 00:16:19.600 --> 00:16:20.600 step in the wrong direction. 327 00:16:21.399 --> 00:16:23.639 Yeah, I don't think that's going to be a problem. 328 00:16:24.240 --> 00:16:27.879 I really don't. And like I said, I think if 329 00:16:27.919 --> 00:16:31.960 you look at you know, look and like I said, 330 00:16:32.000 --> 00:16:34.000 I think the better I think the better question to 331 00:16:34.039 --> 00:16:36.399 ask us in general is what's the future allowed marketing? 332 00:16:36.519 --> 00:16:38.120 That's where I was going to go next. Yes, that's 333 00:16:38.120 --> 00:16:39.000 where I was gonna go next. 334 00:16:39.039 --> 00:16:42.080 I just don't if you look at where the Jazz 335 00:16:42.159 --> 00:16:45.960 are right, they have all these guys on rookie scale contracts, 336 00:16:46.000 --> 00:16:48.320 they have all these young players and need to develop. Hendricks, 337 00:16:48.440 --> 00:16:50.399 you know, started to show some flashes early last year, 338 00:16:50.399 --> 00:16:52.240 and then obviously I had the unfortunate injuries. So hopefully 339 00:16:52.279 --> 00:16:55.279 he comes back healthy. But if you just look at 340 00:16:55.279 --> 00:16:58.360 where the Jazz are at, like Ray, marketing just doesn't 341 00:16:58.399 --> 00:17:02.039 really fit with the timeline of the team. So, you know, 342 00:17:02.279 --> 00:17:05.880 I think, especially if Larry Margnon is not on the 343 00:17:05.920 --> 00:17:09.200 team next season, I don't think there's any chance of 344 00:17:09.200 --> 00:17:13.480 them finishing with the record outside the bottom eat and 345 00:17:13.559 --> 00:17:16.720 there or out at the bottom five. And even if 346 00:17:16.720 --> 00:17:19.440 he and even if he's on the team, honestly, Spence, 347 00:17:19.559 --> 00:17:24.880 I still think it's extremely unlikely that they are going 348 00:17:24.960 --> 00:17:28.200 to lose the pick because there's just the Jazz have 349 00:17:28.240 --> 00:17:31.720 a long way to go, and the competition is stiff, 350 00:17:31.839 --> 00:17:33.359 and you have a lot of teams. There are very 351 00:17:33.359 --> 00:17:36.640 few teams that are going to be really in the 352 00:17:36.680 --> 00:17:41.279 business of trying to be bad next year. So, like 353 00:17:41.319 --> 00:17:46.799 I said, I maybe stranger things have happened, but I 354 00:17:47.119 --> 00:17:51.680 would be very surprised if we're having a conversation next 355 00:17:51.839 --> 00:17:56.039 spring April, you know, March April May about going into 356 00:17:56.039 --> 00:17:58.960 the lottery with the Jazz, you know, really being in 357 00:17:59.079 --> 00:18:00.400 danger of losing track. 358 00:18:00.839 --> 00:18:04.000 So I'll double down on the narrative in the area 359 00:18:04.039 --> 00:18:06.400 we're in. Do you think they move off of Lowry? 360 00:18:06.480 --> 00:18:09.880 And if so, what sort of return would he receive? 361 00:18:12.160 --> 00:18:14.920 I don't know, And I don't know, and I say 362 00:18:14.920 --> 00:18:18.759 that because I think a lot of things are going 363 00:18:18.799 --> 00:18:22.680 to happen this offseason, and it's just very hard to 364 00:18:22.799 --> 00:18:27.000 know right now what the overall market in the league 365 00:18:27.079 --> 00:18:29.599 is going to look like, because you have a lot 366 00:18:29.640 --> 00:18:32.000 of teams that are motivated to make trades and to 367 00:18:32.079 --> 00:18:35.160 do stuff, and you have I think a lot of 368 00:18:35.200 --> 00:18:37.200 teams that are going to be actively trying to do stuff, 369 00:18:37.200 --> 00:18:39.119 and you have a lot of players that could actively move. 370 00:18:39.720 --> 00:18:42.160 And in terms of figuring out what a guy like 371 00:18:42.200 --> 00:18:44.640 Lowry is going to deliver in a trade, in theory, 372 00:18:46.200 --> 00:18:49.960 some of that comes down to, like is Kevin Durant traded. 373 00:18:50.319 --> 00:18:53.519 What is Kevin Durant traded for? Is the adestetic coupo traded? 374 00:18:53.759 --> 00:18:56.039 What is the aesthetic cupo traded for? What did the 375 00:18:56.039 --> 00:18:58.880 Celtics do with their team after the very unfortunate Jason 376 00:18:58.920 --> 00:19:02.000 Tatum injury? Like do they decide to make wholesale changes? 377 00:19:02.039 --> 00:19:03.640 Do they trade a bunch of guys? What are those 378 00:19:03.680 --> 00:19:04.480 guys get traded for? 379 00:19:04.839 --> 00:19:05.000 Right? 380 00:19:05.359 --> 00:19:09.240 Like a lot of this stuff all has knock on effects, 381 00:19:09.839 --> 00:19:13.799 and you know, it's just I think, very difficult to 382 00:19:13.960 --> 00:19:17.119 know what these teams are going to do. Like another 383 00:19:17.160 --> 00:19:19.480 one like, what are the Brooklyn Nets going to do? 384 00:19:19.759 --> 00:19:22.359 Like are they going to be content to you know, 385 00:19:22.480 --> 00:19:24.319 because they have control their draft again next year? They 386 00:19:24.359 --> 00:19:27.599 could be content to you know, play young players next 387 00:19:27.680 --> 00:19:30.480 year in draft high and you know, be okay having 388 00:19:30.519 --> 00:19:32.640 another season whether high in the lottery or are they 389 00:19:32.720 --> 00:19:35.079 going to try to feed things up? Like There's just 390 00:19:35.119 --> 00:19:37.200 a lot of stuff like that that's very hard to 391 00:19:37.400 --> 00:19:40.559 predict right now. The amount of uncertainty and action that 392 00:19:40.599 --> 00:19:42.559 I think is going to happen around the league, and 393 00:19:43.480 --> 00:19:46.119 I think for the Jazz some of it's going to 394 00:19:46.160 --> 00:19:47.960 be a matter of seeing where all that stuff plays out. 395 00:19:48.000 --> 00:19:50.000 But look, if it was me and you're looking at 396 00:19:50.000 --> 00:19:53.759 where the Jazz are at in general. Like it's like 397 00:19:53.759 --> 00:19:55.799 I said before, if you just look at the roster 398 00:19:56.680 --> 00:20:00.160 and the timelines of where Lowry is at and where 399 00:20:00.240 --> 00:20:03.599 the Jazz are at, you know, it is sort of 400 00:20:03.960 --> 00:20:06.880 you know, it's not going to say it's the Golden 401 00:20:06.880 --> 00:20:10.440