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Speaker 1: Welcome back, everyone to a new episode of You're Wrong

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with Molly Hemingway, editor in chief of the Federalist and

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David Harsani, a senior writer at The Washington Examiner. Just

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as a reminder, if you'd like to email the show,

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please do so at radio at the Federalist dot com.

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We'd love to hear from you. Molly, I was just curious,

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did you enjoy the Broadway debut of Supreme Court Justice

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Kaitanji Brown Jackson? What'd you think of that?

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Speaker 2: So?

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Speaker 3: I only saw the very limited clips they gave, and

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even those limited clips showed that as bad of a

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Supreme Court justice as she may be, she is still

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better at that than at Broadway.

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Speaker 1: Not sure about that. The play was and juliet at

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person as I said, and Juliette.

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Speaker 3: Did you read Matt Taybee's write up of the music?

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Speaker 2: All?

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Speaker 1: Now?

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Speaker 3: Okay, So everyone just kind of knows it's this popular

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Tony nominated musical that uses current music, you know, in

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that way that Mulan Rouge did to retell the story

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of Romeo and juliet with female empowerment. So instead of

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Juliette killing herself in the end, she just moves on

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from a boy that she didn't really know that well,

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and Tybee writes it up and he's screaming while he's

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doing it. Is the best way I can describe it,

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about how awful it is and unimaginative and just embarrassingly stupid,

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and how these people really think they're giving it to

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old William Shakespeare, but really they're just showing that they're

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not very smart individuals. And it's a great I don't

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remember what the name of his piece was on substack,

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but it was a great read.

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Speaker 1: Do you feel like we've turned a societal corner maybe

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where these things that we that a lot of people

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were at least kind of gate where had some patience

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with hearing this kind of woke or whatever you'd call

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this kind of nonsense. It's just we can openly mock

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it now. I feel like we've turned some kind of corner.

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Speaker 3: I was thinking about this because I was reading like

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a totally innocuous tweet from Dan McLaughlin saying, you know,

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Donald Trump had just won the Electoral College but done

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so really poorly, basically like in a completely unimpressive way,

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and he was the twenty second highest vote getter in

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history or something, or of the electoral college vote, and

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I was just thinking about, well, to be honest, I

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was thinking a little bit about how that completely misses

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the point of what happened. But also what you just

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said is the thing that's in the air. People feel

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like we have been that something happened where you can

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now overtly state this stupidity of some of the woke

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ideology that had pervaded discourse. And people like you and

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I could always do that because we're paid for our opinions,

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but there was this thing happening in the country where

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people felt very stifled and they had to protect their

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jobs or their children, and so they couldn't really just

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say honest, totally obvious things about how the left had

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hurt culture or hurt other institutions that they run. And

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so Yes and Juliette. Though very popular with the New

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York City crowds or tourists to come to New York

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City to see a musical, it's just kind of missing

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the mood of the moment.

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Speaker 1: I think, if I may just this is slightly off

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what we were going to talk about. But what you

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just said, I've actually written about this, you know, it's

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something that's coming out in the future. But I was

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thinking about the reopening of the Notre Dame Cathedral in Paris,

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you know, and how this just I watched this documentary

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on it. It's just this beautiful building. And then the reopening,

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all these Western leaders came and they listened to you know,

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this guy, this composer Greki. He was this anti communist

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Polish composer, and and classics like handle whatever. It was

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just all Western and all beautiful, and they rebuilt it

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in only five years. Initially, you know, it took a

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century to build the place, and they used modern techniques

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to to just construct this medieval you know architecture. It's

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just like af fusing of modern you know, efficient ways

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of building things with beautiful architecture. And it was just

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I hope that in the future people look back at

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this moment as the moment where sort of the West

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was back, you know what I mean, where people weren't

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scared to defend Western civilization and culture. Doesn't mean everything

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that Republicans, for instance, say, is right or anything like that.

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It's just we don't have to be lorded over by

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people who kind of shame you into, you know, accepting

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things that you know are either untrue or crazy. And

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you know, you know how everyone always evolves into the left.

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You never evolved into being a conservative, you know, when

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they're talking about like abortion or whatever position. So anyway,

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I know this is a little a little far flung,

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but to me, this all sort of comes together.

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Speaker 3: I gave a speech a few years ago at the

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Bradley Prizes talking about the need for a sort of

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a counter revolution because people always think of conservatism as

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preserving various things. Well, what happens when those things that

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you want to preserve are no longer there, You actually

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have to return to them. You have to you have

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to fight for them. And it's not so stale of

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a movement when you're having to fight. And we're seeing

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some of that fight happening. I don't know if it'll

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be enough. I'm very nervous about it, but I'm hopeful.

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And to your point on the Notre Dame thing and people,

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you know, just people taking hold of Western civilization and

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being pleased with it. I was reading, I was trying

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to get some information for just a basic passage that

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I was writing about a particular moment of history, and

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I was on like history dot com and it was embarrassing.

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It was like, the nineteen fifties were a time of

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great economic growth and everyone was having kids and people

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were able to buy their own homes for the first time,

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and inflation was low, and you know, rock and roll

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was happening, and everyone was getting televisions. But it was

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really bad because women had to couldn't work out of

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the home, and other marginalized groups didn't have this good thing.

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And I was like, I'm just kind of sick of

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this whole attitude of how And I'm not saying by

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any means that when you teach history, you don't teach

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the full story, but there was this self loathing. There

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is this self loathing in the way the American educational

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establishment teaches American history that threatens the existence of the republic.

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And they really have brought us to the edge. And so, yes,

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I'm very happy about where we are at this particular moment,

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but they're not done trying to destroy the country, and

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so we have a little bit of an upper hand

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right now, but we need to make sure that they're defeated.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm not prematurely celebrating anything. I don't know who's

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going to win. I think all the major institutions are

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still in the hands of people who hate Western civilization basically.

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But I was just thinking about this as well. You know,

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we're teaching our kids basically to hate all the things

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that made us great, religion, natural rights, capitalism. But I

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do have hope, and I was another thing if I

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could just connect to this. I was thinking about how

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the RmlA and how incredibly successful he's been down there,

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and how unabashedly you know, South America is this continent

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that is constantly sliding back into collectivism and it's just

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been a problem forever, and he is just unabout actually

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pro market, pro western civilization, pro other nations like the

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United States and Isron else who are defenders of that

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legacy anyway. So it does give me some hope that

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it's not the only place. And you think about Europe,

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you know, places like Hungary and elsewhere that you know

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that left wingers hate. But the truth is I don't

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like everything Hungary does, but I believe they do the

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things they do because they want to reclaim, you know,

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their history, and reclaim a lot of the ideas that

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they believe.

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Speaker 3: It is good.

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Speaker 1: It's about fascism. It's about being Hungarian and being European

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and not just giving up you know, open borders things

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like that, also that assimilation. Anyway, I'm all over the place,

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but all I think there are a lot of fights

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that need to be fought, and it seems to me

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at least that I'm not you know, again, I'm not

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saying that Organs are right about everything, but now that

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Trump wont it seems a lot of people are willing

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to engage in those fights, and you know, I think

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that boats well for the future, I hope better than

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what was going on before.

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Speaker 3: So I still have something more to say about the

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broad Way thing, but I just want to add another

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point on what you just said, which is some of

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the threats against well, some of the threats against classical

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liberalism have come from the left, which has embraced a

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sort of authoritarian restriction on speech and hatred of all

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of the things that have made America great. But you've

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also seen some of that on the right. And I

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think the reaction on the right of rejecting markets or

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other things that have led to our flourishing is a

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result of how failed the elites were and how they

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were handling all sorts of things, whether that's wars or

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the border, or the economy, or accountability for mistakes, and

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having some success with genuinely Western ideals is a great

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way to push back the threats from both the left

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and that new right.

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Speaker 1: Well, I'm very thankful that you brought that up, So

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let me just add to that just slightly a minute.

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I one hundred percent agree. There are a lot of

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people on the right, the new right mostly who reject

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liberalism real you know, classical liberalism, not just liberalism. And

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they'll say it, they reject classical liberalism. I think that

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it's misguided and it's just reactionary because a lot of

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people have appropriated those ideas and failed. I'll give you

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a perfect example of the European Union. It appropriates and

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claims the mantle of liberalism, but all it does is

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use it in ways that failed the people. And I

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hope that because of Malay and others, and hopefully the

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Trump administration with Doge and other things like that, can,

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like you say, the only way you're going to you

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can bring people in because they're normal and they've rejected

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the lefts kind of social science quackery and authoritarianism. But

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you're only going to keep them if you show them

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results and success and make their lives better. And frankly,

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it's going to be tough because the Biden administration honestly

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is set up an economy that's brittle right now. You know,

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things could go you know, the spending and we can

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get into that another time, and everything else. It could

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be a big problem. So let's talk about the Broadway.

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Speaker 3: Yeah well yeah, no, Or to bring it back to

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the court. I was thinking about this in part you know,

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if you look at the conservative judicial movement, which began

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as a reaction to how the left had taken over

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federal courts and the Supreme Court in particular, and just

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done this outcome based jurisprudence, like, we're not happy with

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the pace of change that the Americans are providing us,

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so we're just going to declare things as being constitutional

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even though they're nowhere in the Constitution, or even if

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the means by which we declare them are in fact

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anti constitutional. So finally, sort of slowly it goes from

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a stream to a massive movement in the eighties, this

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conservative judicial project of people who think that we should

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have a more constitutionalist approach to interpreting the law and

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doing it based on the original meaning of the Constitution,

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not the ever changing whims of whoever happens to be

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the justice at the time. And it works really well.

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I mean, there are a lot of setbacks. Of course,

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you might remember the Robert Boor hearing where the left

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just utterly tried to destroy that person, or how they

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would destroy nominees because they were worried that they would

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be originalist interpreters of the Constitution like Ginsburg, who had

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to step down during Reagan's term. But you build up

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this slowly but surely, with a ton of disappointments and

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a ton of mistakes by Republican presidents. You build up

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this great federal judiciary and this movement, and you take

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things like the pro life movement, which was told in

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nineteen seventy three that there was this like hidden mystical

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right to abortion, like secretly somehow in the constitution, and

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not even the left thought that was real. But it

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does a lot to destroy rule of law in the

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country as people kind of know what the court is doing.

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And so the pro life movement works really really hard,

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over literally fifty years to transform the Court into an

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originalist court. And I mention all this because people talk

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about how the Dobs ruling, which overturned Roe v. Wade

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and returned abortion jurisprudence to the States as the Constitution

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would have it, and they say, oh, this is like

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such a tumultuous change, and they're so upset about it.

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And I think people don't quite realize that had the

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conservative judicial movement and the pro lifelent, which are two

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separate things, actually had they put all this work into

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changing the court, and then when Dobbs came up, you

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had another one of these Bs decisions of gobbledegook trying

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to find some again hidden right to abortion that doesn't

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exist in the Constitution. I think you would have lost

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the entire conservative judicial movement. I think people would have

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given up on that branch of government altogether, meaning they

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would no longer respect the decisions of the court. It

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would have been a disaster. And people don't think about

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that enough. And how you know, doing this bold thing

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of just being honest about how abortion was not actually

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right that the founders put in the Constitution. You know,

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it's like so obvious that it seems kind of stupid

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to say it. But but of course with the left

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braying about it NonStop, you know, it can seem where

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to say it anyway, that's my way to get back

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to the court. Kaitanji Brown Jackson is the most recent

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appointee to the court and not considered one of the

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more one of the brighter ones on the court. Right

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Like you might not like Elena Kagan's jurisprudence, but she

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does a really good job in oral argument and plays

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her games or plays her positions so as to get

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the best possible outcome for her side on a decision.

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Katanji Brown Jackson, she's only been there for two terms.

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She's still figuring her way out. She's mostly known for

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being the most loquacious justice on the court. She in

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oral arguments talks a time and the reason, why do

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you mind if I go into this a little bit?

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Speaker 1: No, we're here, I'm sorry, you can't speak, okay.

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Speaker 3: So, when a case gets to the Supreme Court, you

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have oral arguments, and they are really short arguments in

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front of the court, and so the advocates on either

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side have to present their case very quickly, and then

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you have a very short period of time where the

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justices may ask questions. I don't have to ask questions,

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but they may ask questions. And there are nine justices,

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and if you have, say thirty minutes for questions, you

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know that's not very much time per justice. Katanji Brown

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Jackson spends a lot of time on questions, and it's noticeable,

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particularly because she's the newest member of the court. So

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rather than being someone who's kind of saying, oh, let's

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watch how Elena does this, Let's watch how sam Alito

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does this, she just kind of gets in there and talks,

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talks talks. Now, when Gorsich came on the court, he

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was mocked and derided for his questions because they took

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so much time, supposedly, and all of the corporate media

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were just ripping on him for spending so much time

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asking questions. So she comes on the court and she

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spends literally like twice or more amount of time, and

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everyone says, isn't she just wonderful to talk and share

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her viewpoints during oral argument? So this is kind of

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the this is who she is, right, and seeing her

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on Broadway there and again doing such a poor job

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with it, it was just a little like, what are

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you doing exactly? And it was very tone deaf. For

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another reason, when the Dobs decision that I just mentioned

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was leaked, it put a target on the heads of

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every single justice who voted to overturn Row. So that's Alito,

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Thomas Gorsich, Kavanaugh, and Amy Cony Barrett. They had to

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flee their houses, they had to put on bulletproof vests.

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They you know, Kavanaugh had his wife and children nearly

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killed by an assassin. They've had daily protests at their houses.

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They can't go out to dinner. And when that opinion

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was leaked, the dissenters didn't really do anything to help

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out those other justices and the dissenters and not that

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this included Patanji Brown Jackson because she wasn't on the

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court yet, But the dissenters or the Democrat appointed justices,

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they get to go everywhere they want. They get the

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red carpet rolled out for them at elite law schools,

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and they get Beyonce tickets, and they they can sort

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of do whatever they want, including appear on a Broadway stage.

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And the other justices can't go to a Broadway play.

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They can't go for a walk with their children, they

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can't go out to dinner without left wing mobs threatening

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their safety. You know, Chuck Schumer went to the steps

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of the Supreme Court and threatened violence by name at

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the workplace of Kavanaugh and Gorsage by name. He threatened

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violence and never apologized. So there's just like a tone

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deaf aspect of this, like a probably don't go to

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like a radical queer TRANSI play that's stupid or musical

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because it suggests that you have particular their viewpoints on

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issues that might be before the court. I mean, but

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we can set that aside. Maybe not, but maybe don't

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be so tone deaf about how you get to literally

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appear on stage while your colleagues still have to fear

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for their lives from your supporters.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, my first reaction to seeing her was, Okay,

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it's fine, why can't adjustice. You know it's her dream

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and you know she's worked hard, and who cares in that?

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But then I saw what you wrote, and I hadn't

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thought about how the other side is not normal, that

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they don't they don't act the same way that someone

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an assassin showed up at Kavanaugh's house with all the

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tools to kill and kidnap and torture his family, right,

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And then it hit me that I wrote recently a

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whole column about how the left wing is far more

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prone to violence that I think it was. Eighteen to

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twenty nine year olds in one poll, forty three percent

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of them said it was fine to kill the CEO

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of the United Healthcare Insurance Company. So I think that

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all ties in, And you're right, you know, I mean, yeah,

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the play's embarrassing and it's not her fault, but of

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course she's celebrated and the others are slandered constantly by

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corporate media as shills for billions and who knows what

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other conspiracies.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, well, here's another thought. How much would someone have

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to pay for a walk on speaking part on a

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Broadway production, Like if you were to give money to

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get that, or if you were to thought of that.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, so if you're just a rich dude and you

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give probably I don't know many thousands, I don't know

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one hundred thousand.

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Speaker 3: I'd say it's just funny that Pro Publica, that left

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wing Democrat propaganda group that goes after anyone conservative, isn't

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writing a piece about how she violated ethics by getting

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this thing valued. It quite a bit of money.

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Speaker 1: You know, let's just use that as a segue. That

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site is one of you know, they invented the amber

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Thurman died from because of the abortion lawn and Georgia's story, right,

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they invented all kinds of stories about Clarence Thomas. I

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call it Potemkin journalism, but it's really much more insidious,

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I think. And they were ready to smear peak Hexseth

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right with the story about how he had not actually

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been accepted by West Point. And the only reason that

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that story didn't dominate our media for a week is

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that the guy kept his acceptance letter in his house

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and provided it, which is I don't know if that's

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a normal thing for people to do. Maybe it's because

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it's West Point, you know, and that's a great honor,

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But that was kind of amazing. If he didn't have

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that letter, what would have happened? They would have run

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that story and we would have been we would have

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to have you know, I don't know what would have happened.

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It might have sunk his nomination.

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Speaker 3: I think that my mom has kept my nomination letters

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to the service academies that I got from various you know,

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members of Congress when I was trying to when I'm

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stupidly thinking I should go to a service academy.

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Speaker 1: I ever knew that about you.

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Speaker 3: If it's Pete Heegs's mom that kept it, I guess,

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is what I mean. It seems like a mom thing

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to do.

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Speaker 1: Oh. I saw her in an interview recently. She's a

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big defender obviously of her son.

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Speaker 3: Well, you say obviously, But the New York Times somehow

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got access to that email she wrote him that was

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very critical of how he was treating women and children,

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and then ran it as if that was like the

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full total of the story. And as she pointed out,

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she was really angry at what kind of what he'd

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done with his marriage. I was just thinking, I loved

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that she did that. That's what my parents would do

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if I were, if I were having marital trouble, and

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I loved that she did that. And I just have

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one quick thing to go back to the court that

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I was just thinking of. Pro Publica. They also ran

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the hit pieces on Martha Alito's flags that she had

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and one of the things that, Yeah, one of things

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that was interesting about that is that when that flag

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dust up came out, Justice Alito said, those are my

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wife's flags and barring like a divorce. I don't see

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how I I mean, I don't remember exactly how he

401
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said it, but like, I don't see how I can

402
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tell her she can't fly the flags. I asked her

403
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not to, but I can't tell her she's half owner

404
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of the home and blah blah blah. And it was

405
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a very sort of pro female approach he took. Well,

406
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there was this Democrat activist named Lauren Windsor who does

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surreptitious videos, kind of like a James O'Keeffe type thing.

408
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Actually it's worse she I think she flat out misleads people,

409
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but in worse ways. But she goes up to Martha

410
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and Aalido at some event and talks to her, and Martha,

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you know, completely substantiates this story. You know, She's like, oh,

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like that man can tell me what to do with

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my flags. Those are my flags. I'm a woman and

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I get to do what I want. And it was

415
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just funny how it was supposed to be expos exposing

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something nefarious, and it completely substantiated the version of events that.

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Speaker 1: Had been Also, incidentally, there is nothing wrong with that

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flag or either or any kind of flag from the

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Revolutionary War, not just nothing wrong.

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Speaker 3: I love that flag I had.

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Speaker 1: I love that flag. Yeah, I love that flag.

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Speaker 3: Great.

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Speaker 1: It's funny since since that happened, and you know, I

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drive around the country in certain places and I've seen

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more of them pop up than I had before. I

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hadn't actually seen many of them around. Now they're appeal

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to having flags across the nation.

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Speaker 3: Okay, So about the Pete hag Seth ProPublica thing though,

429
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one of the things I thought interesting was that the

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editor of Pro Publica, or an editor at Pro Publica,

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he got really defiant. Pete hag Seth posted the letter

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and he's like, yeah, so they were trying to write

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a hip piece on me, and I have the letter

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and they're stupid, and the the editor says, well, we

435
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called west Point twice and they told us twice that

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he had never even applied, and then we didn't run

437
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the story after he provided us with this document, and

438
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that's how journalism works. And it's like, well, actually, first off, no,

439
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I mean, I think Biden claimed that he got into

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a service academy. Did Pro Publica ever look into that?

441
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He only the president of the United states with a

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history of lying about everything. So if you were really

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doing journalism and you really were interested in people's claims

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about going to service academies, maybe dig into Joe Biden

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a thousand times more than Pete Hegseth, an actual decorated

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veteran who clearly is the type who would have been

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accepted into a service academy and went to Princeton or Harvard.

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I mean, like he's it's not like a shock that

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he would have gotten it.

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Speaker 1: Also, yeah, the next.

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Speaker 3: Day a letter comes out or the email that they

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sent Hegseth comes out, and it's like, dear loser, we

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have verifiable information that you're a lying liar who lies.

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You falsely claimed you got accepted to the military academy

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and we know that you did not. Why are you

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lying about this important thing? Why do you think that

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as a liar you should be able to head the

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Department of Defense. I mean, it was not journalism. It

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wasn't like can you shed any light on this? It

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was horrific. And so when that came out, it was like, oh,

461
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is this what journalism is? Writing your hit piece already

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before you collect all the information and then giving someone

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forty eight minutes to respond before you hit publish, and

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they just happen to have on them the one thing

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that debunks it, or else you would have destroyed their lives.

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That's what journalism is like. It is what journalism is

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these days. But it's disgusting.

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Speaker 1: Was that a verbatim quote from the letter the Loser,

469
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Loser Loser? Yeah? It was not how a journalist conducts themselves.

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I'm not saying they wouldn't send a letter, but it

471
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has such a sort of political thrust to it, you know.

472
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But more than that, why should we trust this outlet

473
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that constantly concoct stories about people to destroy them. I

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have no reason to trust them on anything, Like you say, just.

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Speaker 3: One pitch on that left wing billionaire Democrat funders provide

476
00:26:57,000 --> 00:27:01,680
limitless funding to Pro Publica to send armies of reporters

477
00:27:01,759 --> 00:27:07,359
against any and all political opponents. Through Pro Publica. People

478
00:27:07,359 --> 00:27:10,519
who like journalism, real journalism, should know that it takes

479
00:27:10,680 --> 00:27:14,799
money to investigate things and to have reporters research things.

480
00:27:14,839 --> 00:27:18,319
And they should, particularly this time of year, feel more

481
00:27:18,559 --> 00:27:24,880
than welcome to give funds to the Federalist or other publications,

482
00:27:24,880 --> 00:27:28,920
but really the Federalist to fund reporting on important things,

483
00:27:28,960 --> 00:27:30,839
and you can do that at the Federalist dot com

484
00:27:30,880 --> 00:27:31,599
slash donate.

485
00:27:34,039 --> 00:27:37,440
Speaker 2: This liberal attorney general thinks it's Amazon's fault. The Watched

486
00:27:37,440 --> 00:27:40,240
Out on Wall Street podcast with Chris Markowski. Every day

487
00:27:40,319 --> 00:27:43,319
Chris helps unpack the connection between politics and the economy

488
00:27:43,319 --> 00:27:45,799
and how it affects your wallet. The Age of DC

489
00:27:46,000 --> 00:27:49,920
is going after Amazon because of delivery times in rough neighborhoods.

490
00:27:50,039 --> 00:27:52,680
Maybe if he would go after the crime, the deliveries

491
00:27:52,720 --> 00:27:56,119
would come quicker. Amazon's just protecting their employees. Whether it's

492
00:27:56,160 --> 00:27:58,319
happening in DC or down on Wall Street, it's affecting

493
00:27:58,359 --> 00:27:59,000
you financially.

494
00:27:59,079 --> 00:27:59,559
Speaker 1: Be informed.

495
00:27:59,640 --> 00:28:01,799
Speaker 2: Check out Watched Out on Wall Street podcast with Chris

496
00:28:01,839 --> 00:28:05,200
Markowski on Apple, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts.

497
00:28:07,759 --> 00:28:10,839
Speaker 1: Let's talk about Hegseth for a minute. So it seems

498
00:28:10,880 --> 00:28:15,039
to me like he met with Senators Jony Ernst. Others

499
00:28:15,640 --> 00:28:18,920
seem okay, it looks to me like he is going

500
00:28:18,960 --> 00:28:21,200
to be successful. I saw Donald Trump came out. I

501
00:28:21,200 --> 00:28:23,680
found this sort of interesting. You know, said he's a

502
00:28:23,720 --> 00:28:25,920
good guy. We're going to stick with him, which he

503
00:28:25,960 --> 00:28:31,720
didn't do for Matt Gates. I think perhaps he realizes

504
00:28:31,839 --> 00:28:35,559
that this is already a done deal. Probably do you agree?

505
00:28:35,599 --> 00:28:37,319
Do you think what do you think is happening?

506
00:28:37,599 --> 00:28:39,319
Speaker 3: I don't think it's a done deal. I think that

507
00:28:39,839 --> 00:28:41,759
I think that a lot of people are much more

508
00:28:41,799 --> 00:28:45,440
positive toward Pete Hegseth than they were when his nomination

509
00:28:45,559 --> 00:28:49,480
was announced, and it was a little surprising. Definitely, the

510
00:28:49,519 --> 00:28:52,799
military industrial complex kind of came out immediately opposed to it,

511
00:28:52,839 --> 00:28:56,079
but then they I think they just kind of moderated

512
00:28:56,119 --> 00:28:58,200
on it. They feel more comfortable with some of the

513
00:28:58,240 --> 00:29:00,400
other picks, which maybe should give the rest of US spots,

514
00:29:00,559 --> 00:29:03,880
meaning the other picks underneath elsewhere in the Defense Department.

515
00:29:05,440 --> 00:29:07,759
And then also I heard from senators that he really

516
00:29:07,960 --> 00:29:10,480
is just impressive in his meetings. I think they thought

517
00:29:10,519 --> 00:29:13,119
of him as a Fox News host who doesn't really

518
00:29:13,160 --> 00:29:15,960
know anything. And I've said this before that before I

519
00:29:16,000 --> 00:29:19,240
started working in television news, I also had some bigotry

520
00:29:19,319 --> 00:29:22,279
against the talking heads, thinking they weren't very bright, and

521
00:29:22,400 --> 00:29:25,200
frequently the people who are hosting shows are some of

522
00:29:25,200 --> 00:29:28,319
the brightest people out there. I mean, what they're able

523
00:29:28,359 --> 00:29:31,000
to do in terms of running something like that is

524
00:29:31,039 --> 00:29:33,880
pretty is pretty difficult, so they shouldn't be viewed as

525
00:29:33,880 --> 00:29:37,319
stupid also Pete Hegseth is a very well educated man,

526
00:29:37,759 --> 00:29:41,440
and he's a very well read man, and he's thought

527
00:29:41,440 --> 00:29:43,640
through all these issues, and so when he's having his

528
00:29:43,720 --> 00:29:48,119
meetings with senators, they are truly becoming more impressed with him.

529
00:29:48,200 --> 00:29:50,440
So I do think he's probably going to get through.

530
00:29:50,519 --> 00:29:52,319
But there are also all these rumors that they're going

531
00:29:52,400 --> 00:29:55,759
to like continue to try to kavanaugh him and stuff

532
00:29:55,759 --> 00:29:57,279
like that, So who knows.

533
00:29:57,920 --> 00:29:59,839
Speaker 1: I think, you know, even if the guy doesn't have

534
00:30:00,039 --> 00:30:02,839
a lot of experience running some big organization, that would

535
00:30:02,839 --> 00:30:06,680
probably give me pause, you know, but you know, that's

536
00:30:06,720 --> 00:30:09,799
a more big picture position anyway. And it's more you know,

537
00:30:09,839 --> 00:30:12,759
if I thought he had underlings who were really smart

538
00:30:12,799 --> 00:30:17,680
and more experienced, I would I would you know, that

539
00:30:17,720 --> 00:30:21,319
would get That would make me feel better about his nomination.

540
00:30:21,680 --> 00:30:24,119
Speaker 3: So I do want to say George Stephanopoulos had a

541
00:30:24,160 --> 00:30:26,400
panel this weekend. I can't believe he's still doing his

542
00:30:26,440 --> 00:30:30,480
show after being exposed as such a horrific liar, but

543
00:30:30,880 --> 00:30:32,480
he had a panel on this weekend and it was

544
00:30:32,519 --> 00:30:35,920
like two left wing reporters and then Donna Brazil and

545
00:30:35,960 --> 00:30:39,680
then Ryan's previous And the interesting thing was that the

546
00:30:39,680 --> 00:30:42,640
two left wing reporters and Ryan's previous were all in

547
00:30:42,720 --> 00:30:48,400
complete agreement that the efforts to defend Pete Hegseth had

548
00:30:48,400 --> 00:30:50,559
been really smart, and so what they said this was

549
00:30:50,559 --> 00:30:53,880
was that Donald Trump stood behind his nominee, as you said,

550
00:30:54,640 --> 00:30:57,519
And then voters just started saying to Jonie Ernst and

551
00:30:57,559 --> 00:31:00,240
to others who were trying to get rid of of

552
00:31:01,039 --> 00:31:03,400
heg Seth that if they did that they would be

553
00:31:03,480 --> 00:31:06,680
primary and their lives would be made very, very difficult,

554
00:31:06,960 --> 00:31:10,359
and they took those threats seriously. One of my colleagues

555
00:31:10,440 --> 00:31:13,000
at Fox told me that the senators were very upset

556
00:31:13,039 --> 00:31:17,640
with me for highlighting these issues which we wrote about

557
00:31:17,640 --> 00:31:20,119
and we broke the news that Jonny Ernest was trying

558
00:31:20,119 --> 00:31:23,240
to replace heg Seth as the nominee and that she

559
00:31:23,400 --> 00:31:27,880
was going against him. But the senators were very upset

560
00:31:27,880 --> 00:31:30,680
that we were like allowing the people to have a

561
00:31:30,759 --> 00:31:35,759
say here in what they thought about who should be

562
00:31:35,880 --> 00:31:38,839
confirmed as Secretary of Defense. And it made me laugh,

563
00:31:38,960 --> 00:31:41,799
but just shows you can just stand by the person,

564
00:31:42,279 --> 00:31:47,480
remind elected officials that they are accountable to the people

565
00:31:48,160 --> 00:31:51,680
for the decisions that they make, and just don't let

566
00:31:51,720 --> 00:31:56,640
the left and the media and other democrats dictate what

567
00:31:56,680 --> 00:31:58,799
you do, and then you can be very successful if

568
00:31:58,839 --> 00:32:03,359
you have their positions and popular nominees. You can. You

569
00:32:03,400 --> 00:32:06,079
don't have to accept that the left is trying to

570
00:32:06,319 --> 00:32:10,319
bork or Clarence Thomas or Kavanaugh your nominees. You just

571
00:32:10,359 --> 00:32:10,839
don't have to.

572
00:32:12,680 --> 00:32:18,359
Speaker 1: Since you brought up George Stephanopolis, let's talk about the

573
00:32:18,400 --> 00:32:22,880
defamation suit against him in ABC News by Donald Trump

574
00:32:22,920 --> 00:32:26,640
that was settled for fifteen million dollars this week. It

575
00:32:26,759 --> 00:32:30,240
caused kind of an uproar among the usual corporate media

576
00:32:30,319 --> 00:32:34,559
types who rather than say, well, let's actually take a

577
00:32:34,559 --> 00:32:38,240
step back and say it was the cause of the suit.

578
00:32:38,480 --> 00:32:41,359
Was that Stepanopolis. I believe he was in an interview

579
00:32:41,400 --> 00:32:44,519
with Nancy Mace, maybe kind of a contentious interview where

580
00:32:44,519 --> 00:32:51,119
he kept saying that Donald Trump had raped e Gene Carol,

581
00:32:51,160 --> 00:32:52,880
the woman who won the civil suit against him in

582
00:32:52,880 --> 00:32:59,759
New York, which was not true. It's false. But instead

583
00:32:59,759 --> 00:33:04,279
we're about being precise and not you know, defaming people.

584
00:33:04,400 --> 00:33:07,640
They were very worried about how this sort of intimated

585
00:33:08,039 --> 00:33:10,799
or showed that they were surrendering already to the you know,

586
00:33:10,839 --> 00:33:13,440
the fascist incoming White House and stuff like that.

587
00:33:14,839 --> 00:33:17,440
Speaker 3: So I actually want to take a step back even more,

588
00:33:17,599 --> 00:33:21,240
which is to remind ourselves what the Egen Carrol civil

589
00:33:21,279 --> 00:33:25,160
suit was and how it started. So this woman, who

590
00:33:25,200 --> 00:33:28,559
I think is in her eighties, maybe she claimed that

591
00:33:28,599 --> 00:33:31,640
when she was in her fifties, that one of the

592
00:33:32,039 --> 00:33:36,680
world's maybe the world's most recognizable man hid himself in

593
00:33:36,720 --> 00:33:41,759
a Bergdorf Goodman and found a way to rape her,

594
00:33:42,039 --> 00:33:45,880
a fifty something year old woman in the Bergdorf Goodman.

595
00:33:48,119 --> 00:33:52,240
And it's a story that strains credulity, Okay, But she

596
00:33:52,400 --> 00:33:56,359
had been kind of telling this story, and you know,

597
00:33:56,400 --> 00:33:58,160
she did live in New York at the time. You know,

598
00:33:58,200 --> 00:34:01,119
sometimes you get these stories from people and like they're

599
00:34:01,319 --> 00:34:04,200
literally impossible, like the person lived in a different country

600
00:34:04,200 --> 00:34:08,440
at the time or something. But she was concocting this

601
00:34:08,519 --> 00:34:12,480
with George Conway, who's the very well funded resistance guy

602
00:34:13,280 --> 00:34:16,719
who runs the Lincoln Project in various other or he's

603
00:34:16,800 --> 00:34:18,639
involved with the Lincoln Project and a bunch of other

604
00:34:19,760 --> 00:34:24,679
never Trump financial schemes. And it was financed secretly, and

605
00:34:24,679 --> 00:34:27,239
they lied about this by Reid Hoffman, who's been involved

606
00:34:27,239 --> 00:34:30,320
in a ton of election interference stuff. He might remember

607
00:34:30,400 --> 00:34:34,840
he manipulated social media in an Alabama race. I think

608
00:34:34,840 --> 00:34:37,719
it was years ago and is a billionaire Democrat funder

609
00:34:37,760 --> 00:34:41,480
and so it was a total Democrat operation and they

610
00:34:41,880 --> 00:34:44,800
had the case in New York City with a jury

611
00:34:44,920 --> 00:34:49,039
that was more than willing to say that in this

612
00:34:49,159 --> 00:34:54,400
civil suit they believed this somewhat difficult to believe story,

613
00:34:55,320 --> 00:34:58,280
but even they were unwilling to say it was rape.

614
00:34:58,320 --> 00:35:00,480
So I think the first question was like, do you

615
00:35:00,519 --> 00:35:02,440
think this is rape? And they were like nope. They're like,

616
00:35:02,519 --> 00:35:05,360
do you think you could call this sexual harassment or

617
00:35:05,400 --> 00:35:08,840
assault or something? They're like sure. And so that was

618
00:35:08,840 --> 00:35:10,719
a problem though, because they really wanted, as part of

619
00:35:10,760 --> 00:35:13,440
the Democrat messaging to say this was a felon and

620
00:35:13,480 --> 00:35:16,280
a convicted rapist and here, and they would have had

621
00:35:16,320 --> 00:35:18,440
trouble with that anyway of this being a civil trial,

622
00:35:18,880 --> 00:35:21,960
but it just wasn't enough for them for what they

623
00:35:21,960 --> 00:35:25,400
wanted to do with the election. And so after the fact,

624
00:35:25,559 --> 00:35:29,159
the judge is like, well, if you're define rape differently

625
00:35:29,280 --> 00:35:32,360
than this courtroom does, you can kind of say it's

626
00:35:32,480 --> 00:35:34,440
rape now.

627
00:35:34,440 --> 00:35:37,039
Speaker 1: It was terrible. He said that it was substantially true

628
00:35:37,079 --> 00:35:39,760
that it was rape, like as if there is no

629
00:35:39,920 --> 00:35:44,519
legal definition for that act of you know, of a

630
00:35:44,599 --> 00:35:48,519
complete first degree felony or whatever right, and that in

631
00:35:48,559 --> 00:35:52,400
the broader sense, everyone understands it as rape. So he

632
00:35:52,480 --> 00:35:55,880
essentially discarded with the jury or the jury said no

633
00:35:56,000 --> 00:35:57,320
when he just started.

634
00:35:57,159 --> 00:36:01,280
Speaker 3: Himself told, but he himself was giving the guidance on

635
00:36:01,400 --> 00:36:04,079
these definitions. And then I forgot one other thing, which

636
00:36:04,119 --> 00:36:07,480
is that New York State kind of rejiggered their laws

637
00:36:07,519 --> 00:36:11,079
to enable this lawsuit to take place. We didn't even

638
00:36:11,119 --> 00:36:14,719
know what year this was supposedly taking place, and it's

639
00:36:14,719 --> 00:36:18,280
a civil thing, you know, the standards here are very low.

640
00:36:18,719 --> 00:36:22,920
And it was in this context that George Stephanopolis, who

641
00:36:22,960 --> 00:36:26,960
of course came to fame as Bill Clinton's press secretary

642
00:36:27,119 --> 00:36:30,880
at the height of all the Bill Clinton problems that

643
00:36:31,119 --> 00:36:34,559
and has been working as a Democrat activist for ABC

644
00:36:34,760 --> 00:36:40,599
News since then, that he berated Nancy Mace for supporting

645
00:36:40,639 --> 00:36:45,800
Donald Trump, since in George Stephanopolis's mind, Trump was a rapist,

646
00:36:45,840 --> 00:36:48,559
and he kept saying that, and Nancy Mayce kind of

647
00:36:48,559 --> 00:36:52,159
famously was responding about how she was not appreciating the

648
00:36:52,199 --> 00:36:54,599
bullying and that she was a victim of sex violence

649
00:36:54,679 --> 00:36:57,840
or something, and he just said it over and over

650
00:36:57,920 --> 00:37:01,000
and over again. There was no journalistic reas and for it.

651
00:37:01,000 --> 00:37:05,480
It was also a lie, and it was horrific journalism,

652
00:37:05,519 --> 00:37:08,360
the kind that we have become accustomed to at all

653
00:37:08,400 --> 00:37:11,760
of the corporate media, and George Defnopolis is no exception.

654
00:37:12,119 --> 00:37:15,599
So yeah, they had to settle for George Stefanopolis repeatedly

655
00:37:15,719 --> 00:37:19,920
lying about this and give fifteen million dollars to the

656
00:37:20,239 --> 00:37:24,280
Donald Trump fake news media wing at his library.

657
00:37:25,480 --> 00:37:28,800
Speaker 1: And I add something about George Steppanopholis, let's go back

658
00:37:28,800 --> 00:37:31,639
even further. Yeah, he worked for Clinton. He just worked

659
00:37:31,639 --> 00:37:34,480
for Clinton. He was a fixer. Basically, he helped cover

660
00:37:34,679 --> 00:37:37,159
up what I think were far more credible accusations of

661
00:37:37,239 --> 00:37:41,800
rape against his boss and destroy helped helped to destroy

662
00:37:41,880 --> 00:37:45,079
women who came forward with stories that we later learned were,

663
00:37:45,159 --> 00:37:47,920
of course one hundred percent true about Bill Clinton. And

664
00:37:48,320 --> 00:37:50,719
you know, the audacity of someone, first of all, the

665
00:37:50,880 --> 00:37:56,400
ridiculous if there's a second tier editor hired at somewhere

666
00:37:56,400 --> 00:37:58,320
that happened to be a conservative or something, there's a

667
00:37:58,360 --> 00:38:01,239
revolt at the newspaper or there's a revolt at the outlet.

668
00:38:01,559 --> 00:38:05,559
But this guy and others can just have be perched

669
00:38:05,679 --> 00:38:08,920
top be stars at these networks. Who are just political activists.

670
00:38:09,000 --> 00:38:11,440
George Stephanopolis gave I forgot what the number is, but

671
00:38:11,519 --> 00:38:14,199
some huge amounts of the Clinton Foundation last selection, and

672
00:38:14,280 --> 00:38:16,320
Yet was covering, you know, in twenty sixteen, and Yet

673
00:38:16,400 --> 00:38:18,679
was covering the election anyway, just to give you some

674
00:38:18,800 --> 00:38:24,360
background on him if you're younger and you don't remember. Yeah,

675
00:38:24,400 --> 00:38:31,760
So I am very I get nervous when people start

676
00:38:31,840 --> 00:38:35,519
suing other people, you know, over things they say. But

677
00:38:35,719 --> 00:38:37,679
you know, when you're accusing someone of rape, this isn't

678
00:38:37,679 --> 00:38:39,880
an opinion. This isn't like saying, oh, I think Donald

679
00:38:39,920 --> 00:38:41,880
Trump's going to be a fascist one day. You're saying

680
00:38:41,880 --> 00:38:45,840
here that you rape someone, which has never never been

681
00:38:45,920 --> 00:38:48,280
adjudicated and no one has ever proven it in a

682
00:38:48,360 --> 00:38:51,599
court of law. And I think he's every right to sue.

683
00:38:52,199 --> 00:38:54,519
I can't believe he settled for such a small number.

684
00:38:54,599 --> 00:38:56,760
I think maybe just wanted it to go away, don't

685
00:38:56,760 --> 00:38:57,079
you think?

686
00:38:57,840 --> 00:39:00,880
Speaker 3: Oh, I actually think that the settlement of any amount

687
00:39:01,119 --> 00:39:05,119
is significant. And you know it's significant because the corporate

688
00:39:05,159 --> 00:39:10,559
media reaction to it has been hysteria. People are livid

689
00:39:10,800 --> 00:39:14,199
at ABC News for settling in this and they say

690
00:39:14,400 --> 00:39:17,199
that's a horrific precedent. And that it makes people think

691
00:39:17,239 --> 00:39:22,440
that they that they just do fake news. The polls

692
00:39:22,559 --> 00:39:26,039
that have consistently shown it for decades don't show that

693
00:39:26,079 --> 00:39:28,800
you're doing fake news. But this admission that you lied,

694
00:39:29,639 --> 00:39:31,880
or the settlement that all but admits that you led,

695
00:39:31,960 --> 00:39:32,840
that's fake news.

696
00:39:33,199 --> 00:39:35,400
Speaker 1: And I do wonder if he said it like this.

697
00:39:35,800 --> 00:39:39,519
I believe from the things that I've seen that Donald

698
00:39:39,519 --> 00:39:42,239
Trump probably raped this woman. I don't think you could

699
00:39:42,239 --> 00:39:45,639
sue him. Then it's saying it as a matter of fact, right,

700
00:39:45,719 --> 00:39:49,239
I mean, that's the difference saying it as a fact. Yeah.

701
00:39:49,280 --> 00:39:51,599
Speaker 3: But I'm just moving on to the next part, where

702
00:39:51,360 --> 00:39:53,440
we have all these people in the media saying if

703
00:39:53,480 --> 00:39:57,480
we're not allowed to defame our political opponents, we can't

704
00:39:57,519 --> 00:40:01,719
do our jobs. And there is a truth to this, right.

705
00:40:01,880 --> 00:40:05,559
Journalism these days is not about telling the truth or

706
00:40:06,239 --> 00:40:10,280
presenting arguments and letting people decide, or describing factually what

707
00:40:10,400 --> 00:40:14,280
has happened without putting major political spin on it. It

708
00:40:14,360 --> 00:40:18,480
is propaganda. And they're saying this settlement threatens our propaganda

709
00:40:18,519 --> 00:40:21,559
model of journalism, and if we can't lie about Donald Trump,

710
00:40:22,079 --> 00:40:25,159
we're going to have trouble. And I like the honesty.

711
00:40:25,360 --> 00:40:30,679
I like the admission, but I think that they should

712
00:40:30,719 --> 00:40:34,800
get ready if we can just again go back New

713
00:40:34,880 --> 00:40:37,679
York Times v. Sullivan, which is a very old decision now,

714
00:40:37,800 --> 00:40:41,039
has done so much to protect the media even when

715
00:40:41,079 --> 00:40:43,840
they lie. The standards, the burden and proof that you

716
00:40:43,920 --> 00:40:48,639
have to show that someone was acting maliciously or intentionally

717
00:40:48,840 --> 00:40:51,519
when they defamed their political opponents is so high that

718
00:40:51,559 --> 00:40:54,840
it's almost impossible to meet. And a few years ago

719
00:40:54,920 --> 00:40:58,679
you started seeing some rumblings among federal judges, including Supreme

720
00:40:58,679 --> 00:41:01,719
Court Justice Clans Thomas, that this was a problem and

721
00:41:01,719 --> 00:41:03,800
that it needed to be revisited, that New York Times v.

722
00:41:03,920 --> 00:41:07,679
Sullivan gave way too much power to the corporate media

723
00:41:08,039 --> 00:41:12,320
to lie about political opponents without enough protections for their victims.

724
00:41:13,079 --> 00:41:17,320
And Lawrence Silberman, who was a wonderful judge on the

725
00:41:17,400 --> 00:41:20,840
DC Circuit, wrote an assent that dealt with this in

726
00:41:20,880 --> 00:41:23,119
one of the cases where he was saying, you know, again,

727
00:41:23,199 --> 00:41:24,960
I think it's time to revisit some of this New

728
00:41:25,039 --> 00:41:29,079
York Times v. Sullivan jurisprudence which enables our media to

729
00:41:29,159 --> 00:41:33,000
just run wild against people, whether it's Nick Sandman or

730
00:41:33,119 --> 00:41:37,840
pro lifers, or Donald Trump or a thousand other victims

731
00:41:37,880 --> 00:41:40,920
that they have each day. I would not be shocked

732
00:41:40,960 --> 00:41:44,400
to see some folding back here. And I'll just point

733
00:41:44,440 --> 00:41:47,280
out too that when you look at an originalist interpretation

734
00:41:48,159 --> 00:41:52,639
of our views on this, at the time the Constitution

735
00:41:52,840 --> 00:41:57,079
was written, there were it was not so difficult to

736
00:41:57,239 --> 00:42:02,360
hold media accountable for law about even prominent public figures.

737
00:42:02,719 --> 00:42:06,239
Speaker 1: I mean, if I could push back there, I think

738
00:42:06,360 --> 00:42:09,159
that in the founding era the newspapers are far worse

739
00:42:09,239 --> 00:42:12,840
than they actually are today. There were so many vile

740
00:42:13,840 --> 00:42:18,760
rumors about politicians spread around that people were actually dueling

741
00:42:18,760 --> 00:42:22,800
and killing each other over it. Also, I'm saying something

742
00:42:22,840 --> 00:42:27,159
what originalist interpretations says, you First Amendment protects lying. You

743
00:42:27,199 --> 00:42:31,239
can lie if you want. There is no uh you know,

744
00:42:31,519 --> 00:42:34,599
I think people deserve those kinds of protections. I don't

745
00:42:34,599 --> 00:42:39,159
know enough. Yeah, yeah, I'm making I'm trying to make

746
00:42:39,199 --> 00:42:40,519
my full case first.

747
00:42:40,239 --> 00:42:42,559
Speaker 3: But going, okay, I'll let you make your focus.

748
00:42:42,639 --> 00:42:44,239
Speaker 1: No, it's okay. I was just going to say, I'm

749
00:42:44,280 --> 00:42:46,519
obviously I don't know all this. You've obviously know more

750
00:42:46,559 --> 00:42:48,480
about the solving case. I mean, you've been looking at

751
00:42:48,519 --> 00:42:52,400
it clearly, But I don't I worry about chilling speech

752
00:42:52,519 --> 00:42:55,559
with Uh, you know, having just letigious people out there,

753
00:42:55,559 --> 00:42:58,159
because what's going to happen is political people are going

754
00:42:58,239 --> 00:43:01,599
to build these shops and and so suing people constantly

755
00:43:01,639 --> 00:43:03,320
if they say things you know you don't like, and

756
00:43:03,360 --> 00:43:04,559
that could be problematic too.

757
00:43:05,360 --> 00:43:09,000
Speaker 3: I'll begin with agreement. That's actually my concern if if

758
00:43:09,760 --> 00:43:14,199
the New York Times b. Sullivan is revisited and it's

759
00:43:14,280 --> 00:43:20,360
easier to go after media, for it's easier for politicians

760
00:43:20,360 --> 00:43:23,519
to go after media, that's going to hurt publications like

761
00:43:23,559 --> 00:43:25,239
mine a heck of a lot more than the New

762
00:43:25,320 --> 00:43:27,840
York Times for multiple reasons. Not only does the New

763
00:43:27,880 --> 00:43:31,039
York Times have far more resources than the Federalist does

764
00:43:31,159 --> 00:43:35,400
to battle these things, but also our opponents are unevenly matched,

765
00:43:35,480 --> 00:43:39,440
Meaning you have all these left wing billionaires who would

766
00:43:39,440 --> 00:43:42,719
be happy to take the Federalist off the map, and

767
00:43:42,840 --> 00:43:44,639
a lot of people on the right just wouldn't put

768
00:43:44,679 --> 00:43:48,159
their resources that much against It would take more and

769
00:43:48,159 --> 00:43:49,800
it would be more difficult to take the New York

770
00:43:49,800 --> 00:43:52,840
Times out. Now, what I'm talking about is different than

771
00:43:52,880 --> 00:43:55,440
what the quality of the media were, Like, I'm saying

772
00:43:55,639 --> 00:44:02,440
that the law was understood and differently at the time

773
00:44:02,480 --> 00:44:06,760
of the Founding that you could go after media even

774
00:44:06,960 --> 00:44:08,840
if you were a prominent person, because that's the thing

775
00:44:08,880 --> 00:44:11,639
now is that the media basically can say whatever they

776
00:44:11,679 --> 00:44:15,599
want about a public person, and public person has been

777
00:44:15,599 --> 00:44:19,840
redefined really horribly. So if you just like become someone

778
00:44:19,880 --> 00:44:22,119
in the news that day because of something that happened

779
00:44:22,119 --> 00:44:24,239
to you, they're like, oh, you're a public person even

780
00:44:24,280 --> 00:44:26,559
if you're not a politician or the CEO of a

781
00:44:26,559 --> 00:44:29,760
major company or something. And you used to be able

782
00:44:29,800 --> 00:44:33,119
to used to be able to have recourse in a

783
00:44:33,119 --> 00:44:35,800
way that New York Times b Sullivan took away. I

784
00:44:35,960 --> 00:44:39,679
learned about this from Arthur Millock's writing, where he's done

785
00:44:39,960 --> 00:44:44,679
some deep dives into First Amendment and Founding Times and

786
00:44:44,719 --> 00:44:49,880
how things have changed over time. And so everyone should

787
00:44:49,880 --> 00:44:52,639
be on guard because it's clearly not tenable what we

788
00:44:52,719 --> 00:44:56,599
have right now where you can do republic threatening hoaxes

789
00:44:56,639 --> 00:44:59,679
like the Russia collusion hoax that could have destroyed the

790
00:44:59,840 --> 00:45:02,159
entire country and there's nothing you can do about it

791
00:45:02,159 --> 00:45:04,559
because it's all based on anonymous leaks, and you know,

792
00:45:04,679 --> 00:45:07,480
you can say, oh, someone told me this thing, and

793
00:45:07,400 --> 00:45:09,840
then there's nothing you can do, even as the country

794
00:45:09,920 --> 00:45:13,400
might implode that's not tenable. But you don't want to

795
00:45:13,880 --> 00:45:15,840
risk the First Amendment protections either.

796
00:45:16,440 --> 00:45:18,519
Speaker 1: Yeah. I mean in the same way that I support,

797
00:45:18,599 --> 00:45:21,000
you know, on let's say, on Twitter. I want there

798
00:45:21,079 --> 00:45:23,639
to be unfettered free speech, even for Nazis and everything

799
00:45:23,679 --> 00:45:25,880
like that. I just do wonder but the other side

800
00:45:25,880 --> 00:45:29,960
of allowing this sort of thing, and I especially worry

801
00:45:29,960 --> 00:45:32,320
about it when it comes to opinion journalism and what

802
00:45:32,360 --> 00:45:35,800
I do. You know, I am out there saying things

803
00:45:35,840 --> 00:45:38,599
about people who I believe are bad people, and it

804
00:45:38,639 --> 00:45:41,039
would be Now it's not selfish, but I mean just

805
00:45:41,079 --> 00:45:43,760
in general. If I think someone's guilty of a crime

806
00:45:43,800 --> 00:45:47,119
and I start talking about that and I start theorizing

807
00:45:47,199 --> 00:45:50,000
about that about you know, I could be sued. Maybe,

808
00:45:50,079 --> 00:45:51,960
you know, I worry about that. Not for me, but

809
00:45:52,000 --> 00:45:54,679
for all of us. That's all.

810
00:45:54,920 --> 00:45:57,280
Speaker 3: Might not be the worst thing to worry about it,

811
00:45:57,440 --> 00:46:00,639
you know what I mean, Like I wish the Post

812
00:46:00,639 --> 00:46:03,840
had worried about trying to destroy the life of Brett

813
00:46:03,920 --> 00:46:07,280
Kavanaugh and his daughters before they did it. They didn't

814
00:46:07,320 --> 00:46:10,639
seem to worry at all. They seemed to almost to

815
00:46:11,000 --> 00:46:11,639
go for more.

816
00:46:11,760 --> 00:46:13,440
Speaker 1: You know the problem with this is I don't think

817
00:46:13,440 --> 00:46:15,559
any of them will I don't think you'd win. I mean,

818
00:46:15,559 --> 00:46:17,519
maybe you'd win a suit because you'd find the right jury.

819
00:46:17,559 --> 00:46:19,679
But the thing is you have to you have to

820
00:46:19,719 --> 00:46:22,639
divine why, you have to dive into their soul and

821
00:46:23,119 --> 00:46:25,400
prove that they did this on purpose when they're just

822
00:46:25,480 --> 00:46:27,960
passing along someone else's in nuendo. It's going to be

823
00:46:28,039 --> 00:46:30,519
very difficult to do that. Right if someone shows us

824
00:46:30,679 --> 00:46:32,280
a woman says I was raped, and you're like, this

825
00:46:32,320 --> 00:46:34,119
woman says she was raped? How are you going to

826
00:46:34,159 --> 00:46:36,400
sue the reporter? And it's going to be very difficult.

827
00:46:36,440 --> 00:46:38,239
You're gonna have to sue the woman who says it. Right.

828
00:46:39,119 --> 00:46:41,440
Speaker 3: Well, I think this is a good way to start

829
00:46:41,480 --> 00:46:45,679
talking about the other lawsuit this week, which is the

830
00:46:45,719 --> 00:46:50,119
one against the Des Moines Register for its handling of

831
00:46:50,199 --> 00:46:53,199
the ann Seltzer poll. And I don't know if you

832
00:46:53,239 --> 00:46:56,159
read the lawsuit that Trump filed on that. I kind

833
00:46:56,199 --> 00:46:59,840
of skimmed it. It was interesting. It's it's a consumer fraud

834
00:47:00,400 --> 00:47:02,159
sort of action.

835
00:47:02,679 --> 00:47:04,599
Speaker 1: I read this story about it. I did not read

836
00:47:04,639 --> 00:47:08,480
the suit itself. You know, I just think it's ridiculous,

837
00:47:08,519 --> 00:47:12,280
And you can tell me why it's not. I don't know.

838
00:47:12,559 --> 00:47:14,519
Speaker 3: I don't have a strong opinion about it. I just

839
00:47:14,599 --> 00:47:17,239
kind of want to talk about the thing, which is

840
00:47:17,639 --> 00:47:21,159
so Anne Seltzer, who is this polster in Iowa and

841
00:47:21,360 --> 00:47:24,679
is always called by her left wing colleagues the best

842
00:47:24,800 --> 00:47:29,079
polster in America, even though she's clearly not and has

843
00:47:29,159 --> 00:47:33,280
had a string of mess ups in her polls. I

844
00:47:33,320 --> 00:47:35,679
just want to highlight one that made me aware of

845
00:47:35,719 --> 00:47:38,800
this in detail. I was out in Iowa with Fox

846
00:47:38,920 --> 00:47:43,360
for the twenty twenty caucuses, and she pulled her poll

847
00:47:43,440 --> 00:47:46,480
at the last minute because it showed Bernie Sanders winning,

848
00:47:47,039 --> 00:47:49,519
although she claimed it was because in one of the

849
00:47:49,599 --> 00:47:52,599
you know, fifteen hundred phone calls, they'd forgotten to name

850
00:47:52,840 --> 00:47:55,199
Pete Buda judge or something, or they'd named him in

851
00:47:55,239 --> 00:47:57,119
a different order than he was supposed to be named,

852
00:47:57,199 --> 00:48:02,199
or something really sketch, but was widely interpreted as the

853
00:48:02,199 --> 00:48:05,480
Democrat Party would sure like to not have Bernie Sanders

854
00:48:05,559 --> 00:48:09,679
being listed as the winner. You know. Anyway, she comes

855
00:48:09,719 --> 00:48:13,880
out with a poll the weekend before election Day saying,

856
00:48:14,480 --> 00:48:16,639
and I think the polling average at that time had

857
00:48:16,679 --> 00:48:20,239
Trump winning Iowa by like seven, with some of the

858
00:48:20,239 --> 00:48:25,199
more credible polsters saying he would win by ten or something.

859
00:48:25,719 --> 00:48:29,760
And she comes out and says, actually, Kamala Harris is

860
00:48:29,760 --> 00:48:34,800
winning Iowa by three. And to say it sent shockwaves

861
00:48:34,880 --> 00:48:37,800
through the pundit class and the journalism class is a

862
00:48:37,920 --> 00:48:42,039
huge understatement. The Des Moines Register itself ran a front

863
00:48:42,079 --> 00:48:45,159
page paper saying that Kamala Harris was about to win Iowa.

864
00:48:45,280 --> 00:48:47,960
And what an explosive thing. This was all the media

865
00:48:47,960 --> 00:48:50,199
shifted in the last few days, and the last couple

866
00:48:50,199 --> 00:48:53,199
of weeks had already been pretty frenzied, where the media

867
00:48:53,320 --> 00:48:56,840
were saying, oh, you know, Liz Cheney's going to help

868
00:48:57,079 --> 00:49:02,079
Democrats win, and this Madison Square Garden joke that someone

869
00:49:02,119 --> 00:49:04,480
told is going to cause Donald Trump to lose, you know,

870
00:49:04,519 --> 00:49:07,800
that kind of level of thoughtful media analysis. And so

871
00:49:07,920 --> 00:49:13,480
when Anne Saltzer, the dean or not the lady Dean

872
00:49:13,719 --> 00:49:18,320
of Polster, she says Kamala Harris is gonna win Iowa,

873
00:49:18,559 --> 00:49:24,960
you know, not not even Pennsylvania, but Iowa by three,

874
00:49:25,360 --> 00:49:29,800
then it's potentially lights out for Trump and we are

875
00:49:29,800 --> 00:49:33,079
about to see a blowout of epic proportions. And it

876
00:49:33,760 --> 00:49:36,880
I know again from my experience talking with everybody that

877
00:49:37,119 --> 00:49:41,440
I would say every single right of center journalist or

878
00:49:41,480 --> 00:49:46,400
analyst or anyone who discussed this, with the exception of

879
00:49:46,440 --> 00:49:49,199
one person, and I would like to name her, Laura Ingram.

880
00:49:50,159 --> 00:49:52,960
I mean we're talking people, not at the Federalist. Every

881
00:49:53,000 --> 00:49:55,920
single person was freaked out by this pole, and everyone

882
00:49:55,920 --> 00:49:57,719
on the left was cheering it on, and it was

883
00:49:57,760 --> 00:50:03,800
a huge, huge deal. What was the final result in Iowa?

884
00:50:04,760 --> 00:50:07,639
Speaker 1: I don't know. Trump wonted handily Trump one, I.

885
00:50:07,639 --> 00:50:11,840
Speaker 3: Think by ten, so she was off by thirteen points.

886
00:50:12,079 --> 00:50:14,960
And if you look at the way that she revealed,

887
00:50:15,280 --> 00:50:19,440
the way that she polled, her sample size I think

888
00:50:19,719 --> 00:50:25,639
was like a DEM plus four polling like group, which

889
00:50:25,639 --> 00:50:28,559
doesn't make any sense because I think Trump won Iowa

890
00:50:28,679 --> 00:50:31,719
by like seven or eight in twenty twenty.

891
00:50:32,440 --> 00:50:35,519
Speaker 1: I think Iowa has many more Republicans these days anyway,

892
00:50:35,719 --> 00:50:36,159
So it's.

893
00:50:36,159 --> 00:50:40,000
Speaker 3: Not even a pole. Well it's not just my point being.

894
00:50:40,159 --> 00:50:42,280
It's not just that it's a bad poll. It's a

895
00:50:42,320 --> 00:50:48,440
bad poll that had some evidence of bad design.

896
00:50:50,000 --> 00:50:56,519
Speaker 1: So what there are tons of polling out there that's clearly,

897
00:50:58,079 --> 00:51:00,119
you know, driven by part is I can't remember, or

898
00:51:00,199 --> 00:51:02,920
the left wing company that's always putting out ridiculous poles.

899
00:51:03,320 --> 00:51:06,079
I mean, Rasmussen is a right wing polling outfit that

900
00:51:06,159 --> 00:51:08,559
usually finds right wingers winning. Am I wrong about that?

901
00:51:08,719 --> 00:51:11,840
Not the one Scott Rasmussen want to but the newer one.

902
00:51:12,719 --> 00:51:15,480
Speaker 3: I think Rasmussen is one of the more accurate pollsters.

903
00:51:15,559 --> 00:51:18,559
If I don't know what you're saying other than that, all.

904
00:51:18,519 --> 00:51:23,440
Speaker 1: Right, well, my point is that to say, now, first

905
00:51:23,480 --> 00:51:25,840
of all, you can look at the internals of a pole,

906
00:51:25,960 --> 00:51:27,800
you can debunk it, you can say it's not We

907
00:51:27,840 --> 00:51:30,519
have free speech to say that. You shouldn't. First of all,

908
00:51:30,599 --> 00:51:33,639
listen to polling. This isn't as like you're telling someone

909
00:51:33,719 --> 00:51:36,039
a food is healthy and then they eat it and

910
00:51:36,039 --> 00:51:38,400
it's not healthy for them and it's killing them. This

911
00:51:38,440 --> 00:51:41,239
is a pole. You shouldn't. Poles don't determine how you vote,

912
00:51:41,280 --> 00:51:43,639
nor should they. People should just vote any way they want.

913
00:51:43,800 --> 00:51:46,239
So I don't understand how we can start suing people

914
00:51:46,280 --> 00:51:49,400
for having bad polls. Like you said, she's a left

915
00:51:49,440 --> 00:51:52,679
wing polster. She embarrassed herself in twenty twenty. You're saying,

916
00:51:53,239 --> 00:51:57,159
and you're right that many that this did send shock waves,

917
00:51:57,320 --> 00:51:59,880
But many people at the time. I wasn't prepared to

918
00:52:00,159 --> 00:52:02,719
disprove you here, but I think many people at the

919
00:52:02,760 --> 00:52:05,800
time were like this doesn't sound real to me. Right,

920
00:52:06,360 --> 00:52:08,559
you probably said it, and I'm sure people on Fox

921
00:52:08,599 --> 00:52:13,599
said it. This pole sounds fishy. I don't believe this pole, right.

922
00:52:14,920 --> 00:52:17,679
It's something we can debate, it's not something.

923
00:52:17,719 --> 00:52:21,239
Speaker 3: So yeah, I feel like we're doing two different things here.

924
00:52:21,280 --> 00:52:23,599
One is whether you should sue over this, and the

925
00:52:23,639 --> 00:52:25,239
other is still just I kind of want to just

926
00:52:25,320 --> 00:52:29,199
talk about the thing. And so you mentioned food. I

927
00:52:29,199 --> 00:52:31,239
can't remember what your example was exactly about food.

928
00:52:31,239 --> 00:52:34,519
Speaker 1: I'm just saying, you know, someone's consumer misleading consumers about

929
00:52:34,920 --> 00:52:37,920
the calorie count in your food or if it has,

930
00:52:38,079 --> 00:52:40,400
you know, an ingredient or something of that nature. Less.

931
00:52:40,400 --> 00:52:44,079
Speaker 3: Okay. So let's imagine that you are a food company

932
00:52:45,039 --> 00:52:49,280
and the Des Moines Register puts out a pole that

933
00:52:49,480 --> 00:52:53,360
says that they did a totally honest survey and everyone

934
00:52:53,519 --> 00:52:57,599
said that your food tasted like dog food, but it

935
00:52:57,639 --> 00:53:00,440
turned out that they had gone out of their way

936
00:53:00,480 --> 00:53:03,199
to pull people who work for your competitor.

937
00:53:05,320 --> 00:53:05,920
Speaker 1: Would you be.

938
00:53:05,920 --> 00:53:11,639
Speaker 3: Able to do a consumer fraud action suit against the

939
00:53:11,679 --> 00:53:13,119
Des Moines Register in that.

940
00:53:13,039 --> 00:53:16,199
Speaker 1: Case, I'm not sure, But I'm not.

941
00:53:16,159 --> 00:53:17,719
Speaker 3: Sure either, my point being.

942
00:53:17,559 --> 00:53:20,000
Speaker 1: That this is going to lose money there. My livelihood

943
00:53:20,039 --> 00:53:23,719
is at stake. Right, politics is a different animal. As

944
00:53:23,760 --> 00:53:27,320
we know, you don't have the same rights to suit

945
00:53:27,360 --> 00:53:30,119
people say things about you, right, like you mentioned before,

946
00:53:30,760 --> 00:53:36,079
and if every time, first of all, you'd have to

947
00:53:36,559 --> 00:53:38,800
prove intent, right, you would have to prove that she

948
00:53:38,960 --> 00:53:42,159
was out there doing this on purpose. Trying to isn't

949
00:53:42,159 --> 00:53:45,239
part of the suit. Also, like misleading people during an

950
00:53:45,239 --> 00:53:48,320
election or election interference or something, I think that's part

951
00:53:48,320 --> 00:53:48,800
of the suit.

952
00:53:49,760 --> 00:53:52,360
Speaker 3: Well, I think that would be the harm that's caused

953
00:53:52,559 --> 00:53:55,159
would be as a result that would be tying to the.

954
00:53:55,400 --> 00:53:58,599
Speaker 1: Election he won Iowa. So my first thing, is a lawyer,

955
00:53:58,599 --> 00:54:02,880
would be to say, of an effect on anything Trump

956
00:54:02,880 --> 00:54:05,840
probably when Iowa within a bigger margin now than he

957
00:54:05,880 --> 00:54:08,679
did the last two times. Right, did he win Iowa

958
00:54:08,760 --> 00:54:09,760
last time? I don't remember.

959
00:54:10,079 --> 00:54:14,400
Speaker 3: So okay, So that's that would make sense if this

960
00:54:14,480 --> 00:54:19,639
were an Iowa only election. Two meaning that's an interesting

961
00:54:19,679 --> 00:54:22,280
thing to say, but it's not the end of everything.

962
00:54:22,360 --> 00:54:25,039
So this relates to something I saw Tim Carney say,

963
00:54:26,119 --> 00:54:30,599
and I loved Tim, and he was upset about this lawsuit,

964
00:54:30,719 --> 00:54:35,440
and I cannot find okay. So Tim Carney tweeted, in

965
00:54:35,480 --> 00:54:38,679
addition to this being a brazen attack, on free speech.

966
00:54:38,920 --> 00:54:43,480
It's also idiotic. A very wrong poll three days before

967
00:54:43,480 --> 00:54:50,320
a general election doesn't sway anything. If anything, it helps Republicans,

968
00:54:50,559 --> 00:54:54,119
as liberal media bias often does these days these days.

969
00:54:54,400 --> 00:54:57,840
And I responded, of course, fake polls affect elections, that's

970
00:54:57,880 --> 00:55:02,960
a big reason why they're done. And also fake news

971
00:55:03,159 --> 00:55:07,480
dramatically affects elections in a negative way for conservatives. It's

972
00:55:07,519 --> 00:55:10,360
on every set, Like you could say, oh, well, Republicans won,

973
00:55:10,519 --> 00:55:13,480
so therefore the media failed. Well what if the Republicans

974
00:55:13,480 --> 00:55:16,239
would have won by twenty five points without the fake

975
00:55:16,360 --> 00:55:19,079
media for the last forty years, which is actually the

976
00:55:19,119 --> 00:55:21,800
more likely scenario. Then to say that it doesn't that

977
00:55:22,920 --> 00:55:25,559
the propaganda doesn't affect the way people think about things.

978
00:55:25,960 --> 00:55:29,559
And I will just say I also am not saying

979
00:55:29,599 --> 00:55:32,119
that because you have propaganda pressed that you should sue

980
00:55:32,159 --> 00:55:37,159
them for election interference necessarily. But of course fake polls

981
00:55:37,199 --> 00:55:40,920
affect elections in multiple ways, and they are deployed at

982
00:55:40,960 --> 00:55:43,519
different times in a campaign to affect the election in

983
00:55:43,599 --> 00:55:46,039
multiple ways. It's one of the things I love about

984
00:55:46,039 --> 00:55:48,760
real clear politics is that they aggregate all the polls,

985
00:55:49,000 --> 00:55:52,440
so you get the media and university polls in there,

986
00:55:52,480 --> 00:55:56,960
which are just historically strongly biased in favor of Democrats.

987
00:55:57,079 --> 00:55:59,480
But you also balance them out with the independent and

988
00:55:59,480 --> 00:56:02,559
conservative posters, which tend to be far more accurate, and

989
00:56:02,679 --> 00:56:07,920
it takes away some of the effect of these left

990
00:56:08,000 --> 00:56:11,840
wing posters in the media and at the university. But

991
00:56:12,480 --> 00:56:15,480
in the final days of a campaign, in actually pulling

992
00:56:15,760 --> 00:56:18,000
matters a great deal. There are some people who only

993
00:56:18,119 --> 00:56:20,679
pay attention at the very last minute of a race.

994
00:56:21,400 --> 00:56:23,440
I'm not saying these people should be voting, and I

995
00:56:23,519 --> 00:56:25,719
know you agree with me on that, but there are

996
00:56:25,800 --> 00:56:27,239
a lot of these people who are like, now, who's

997
00:56:27,280 --> 00:56:30,599
running for president again? And so when you see a

998
00:56:30,639 --> 00:56:34,000
poll at the last minute saying that Kamala Harris is

999
00:56:34,079 --> 00:56:37,360
winning Iowa by three points, and that means that she's

1000
00:56:37,400 --> 00:56:39,800
going to be doing great nationwide, and you want to

1001
00:56:39,800 --> 00:56:42,880
be on the winning team and you're a low information voter, yeah,

1002
00:56:42,920 --> 00:56:45,920
I think it can affect those last minute people. Also,

1003
00:56:46,360 --> 00:56:49,639
so much of who wins on election day comes out

1004
00:56:49,679 --> 00:56:53,719
to turnout. And if you are a really bad candidate

1005
00:56:54,719 --> 00:56:58,519
like Kamala Harris who hasn't exactly jazzed up her troops

1006
00:56:59,079 --> 00:57:03,199
and you need every last black voter in Philadelphia or whatever,

1007
00:57:03,239 --> 00:57:07,599
to come out and vote from wherever they are, house

1008
00:57:07,679 --> 00:57:12,679
or grave. You know, you need enthusiasm, and a false

1009
00:57:12,840 --> 00:57:17,840
poll could provide that enthusiasm and also demoralize your opposition.

1010
00:57:18,360 --> 00:57:22,159
I always think of the Washington Post ABC News poll

1011
00:57:22,760 --> 00:57:26,920
of Wisconsin. In the final days of the twenty twenty election.

1012
00:57:27,519 --> 00:57:30,880
The Washington Post claimed that Donald Trump was going to

1013
00:57:30,960 --> 00:57:38,840
lose Wisconsin by seventeen points. Seventeen points. That wasn't just

1014
00:57:38,960 --> 00:57:41,400
news for Wisconsin. It means that if he's going to

1015
00:57:41,480 --> 00:57:46,199
lose a state he won in twenty sixteen by seventeen points,

1016
00:57:46,360 --> 00:57:50,239
it's going to be an absolute blowout for Biden. And

1017
00:57:50,280 --> 00:57:53,039
if you want to be with the winning team, that's Biden.

1018
00:57:53,320 --> 00:57:55,960
And of course the election didn't just turn out to

1019
00:57:56,039 --> 00:57:59,920
be determined by forty three thousand votes across three states.

1020
00:58:00,599 --> 00:58:03,760
Donald Trump did lose Wisconsin. And how much did he

1021
00:58:03,800 --> 00:58:04,760
lose Wisconsin by?

1022
00:58:05,840 --> 00:58:07,440
Speaker 1: Heboly under a point.

1023
00:58:07,559 --> 00:58:10,159
Speaker 3: Like seven tenths of a percent. They were off by

1024
00:58:10,360 --> 00:58:15,440
sixteen points. That's an and Seltzer style miss. And there

1025
00:58:15,440 --> 00:58:18,679
are also the ways that polls affect things so much

1026
00:58:18,800 --> 00:58:22,119
earlier than that. So I am still scarred by twenty

1027
00:58:22,239 --> 00:58:25,679
twenty when you know I would be going on Special

1028
00:58:25,719 --> 00:58:29,360
Report every night, and every night from about like June on,

1029
00:58:30,239 --> 00:58:33,159
there would be polls showing that Joe Biden was going

1030
00:58:33,239 --> 00:58:37,320
to win his election by a blowout that nobody had

1031
00:58:37,320 --> 00:58:41,320
ever dreamed possible double digits. And so every night that

1032
00:58:41,400 --> 00:58:43,800
was sort of the framing in which we discussed things.

1033
00:58:44,159 --> 00:58:48,639
And I had a theory of that election which was correct,

1034
00:58:49,000 --> 00:58:51,519
which was that the election would actually be very close.

1035
00:58:51,599 --> 00:58:54,400
I didn't think necessarily that Trump would win, but I

1036
00:58:54,440 --> 00:58:56,079
thought it was going to be close, and as I

1037
00:58:56,119 --> 00:58:58,320
said moments ago, it came down to forty three thousand

1038
00:58:58,360 --> 00:59:01,840
votes across three states. In beginning in June, you're having

1039
00:59:01,880 --> 00:59:05,079
to dig yourself out of a punditry hole when the

1040
00:59:05,159 --> 00:59:07,760
question is like, why are we even here? Trump's losing

1041
00:59:07,800 --> 00:59:10,039
by twelve and then you have to say, well, you know,

1042
00:59:10,159 --> 00:59:12,880
I think it's spent all this time kind of getting

1043
00:59:12,920 --> 00:59:15,280
back up to the ground floor where you can then

1044
00:59:15,480 --> 00:59:18,360
talk about the debate, the actual issues moving the election.

1045
00:59:19,119 --> 00:59:22,400
And it is so demoralizing and it so affects the

1046
00:59:22,400 --> 00:59:25,239
way people talk about things in the media. And I

1047
00:59:25,400 --> 00:59:29,719
have personal knowledge of how this affected one cabinet official

1048
00:59:29,760 --> 00:59:36,599
in particular, who told me in September that he believed

1049
00:59:36,760 --> 00:59:39,800
the polls, and he believed the September before the election,

1050
00:59:40,360 --> 00:59:42,639
and that he just thought there was zero chance that

1051
00:59:42,679 --> 00:59:45,599
Donald Trump had even like the faintest hope of winning.

1052
00:59:46,159 --> 00:59:50,079
And I think it showed in how he handled the

1053
00:59:50,119 --> 00:59:54,880
rest of his time. And you know, so, yeah, poles

1054
00:59:55,039 --> 00:59:58,199
affect things, and so my big beef here is that

1055
00:59:58,239 --> 01:00:00,599
we just act like, oh, well, who cares when posters

1056
01:00:00,679 --> 01:00:03,679
lie and posters manipulate games? Like I do care about it.

1057
01:00:03,760 --> 01:00:06,079
I think it's really evil and wrong. And for a

1058
01:00:06,119 --> 01:00:10,360
country that spent billions of dollars, you know, freaking out

1059
01:00:10,360 --> 01:00:15,519
about supposed Russia collusion, not billions, but lots of time

1060
01:00:15,519 --> 01:00:17,960
and energy and tons of money freaking out about Russia

1061
01:00:17,960 --> 01:00:21,559
collusion on the theory that they had bought one hundred

1062
01:00:21,599 --> 01:00:24,840
thousand dollars in ads on Facebook, some of which supported

1063
01:00:24,920 --> 01:00:27,480
Hillary Clinton and some of which supported Donald Trump, and

1064
01:00:27,480 --> 01:00:29,639
we had to like nearly destroy the country over it.

1065
01:00:30,039 --> 01:00:33,199
The idea that we wouldn't take more seriously fake polling

1066
01:00:33,519 --> 01:00:34,400
is absurd to me.

1067
01:00:35,920 --> 01:00:38,519
Speaker 1: Well, I'm not speaking for my colleague Tim here, I

1068
01:00:38,559 --> 01:00:41,840
will say that I don't think his point was that, oh,

1069
01:00:41,840 --> 01:00:44,400
it doesn't matter if people lie. I think he's making

1070
01:00:44,639 --> 01:00:48,119
a debatable point, but a point maybe I kind of

1071
01:00:48,119 --> 01:00:50,239
agree with him that I don't think in twenty twenty

1072
01:00:50,360 --> 01:00:53,119
four poles really mattered as much as they had in

1073
01:00:53,119 --> 01:00:57,639
the past. For instance, I think that most first of all,

1074
01:00:57,679 --> 01:01:00,719
it's on the citizen and on the voter to make

1075
01:01:00,760 --> 01:01:03,159
these decisions for themselves. Just because you mentioned some people

1076
01:01:03,159 --> 01:01:05,840
who don't even know who's running, and they show that's

1077
01:01:05,880 --> 01:01:08,159
on them. It's not really our job to try to

1078
01:01:08,199 --> 01:01:10,679
create pristine elections for them, where all polls are good

1079
01:01:10,719 --> 01:01:12,480
and people don't lie. You're never going to do that.

1080
01:01:12,679 --> 01:01:15,000
That's so I guess we're talking about two different things.

1081
01:01:15,039 --> 01:01:17,480
One is the suit itself, which I don't know if

1082
01:01:17,480 --> 01:01:20,079
you're four or not. I think it's wrong. And the

1083
01:01:20,119 --> 01:01:22,119
polling and the lying. I think there's lying. And I

1084
01:01:22,119 --> 01:01:25,320
think in each election, this election specifically, and I've written

1085
01:01:25,360 --> 01:01:28,679
about this, I think people did not listen to the mainstream,

1086
01:01:28,719 --> 01:01:31,239
mainstream corporate media at all. I don't think they had

1087
01:01:31,440 --> 01:01:34,559
any sway over how people acted anymore. I don't think

1088
01:01:34,559 --> 01:01:36,280
they believe the Hitler stuff. I don't think that the

1089
01:01:36,360 --> 01:01:40,239
polls really affected them, and who knows, maybe some people

1090
01:01:40,280 --> 01:01:43,119
saw the Iowa poll and they said, whoa, he's down here.

1091
01:01:43,159 --> 01:01:44,559
I got to go out and bo for Trump. I

1092
01:01:44,639 --> 01:01:49,440
mean that happens too, right, you know, I don't we

1093
01:01:49,480 --> 01:01:52,039
don't count the counter history. We don't know. I mean,

1094
01:01:52,079 --> 01:01:53,480
you make good points, but I'm just saying it could

1095
01:01:53,480 --> 01:01:54,400
have gone the other way too.

1096
01:01:55,159 --> 01:01:56,960
Speaker 3: Yeah, And I will just only add that on the

1097
01:01:57,000 --> 01:01:58,960
counter history that we don't know. It could have been

1098
01:01:58,960 --> 01:02:02,760
a bigger blowout for Trump had this stuff not happen.

1099
01:02:03,119 --> 01:02:05,400
I like, how when we're getting emails from people who

1100
01:02:05,440 --> 01:02:07,840
are like, you neglected to mention this, that or the

1101
01:02:07,880 --> 01:02:09,719
other when you talked about it, And I'm thinking, oh,

1102
01:02:09,760 --> 01:02:12,039
we're neglecting to mention a ton of stuff because we

1103
01:02:12,039 --> 01:02:15,199
don't have time to dig into everything. But one thing

1104
01:02:15,199 --> 01:02:16,800
I would like to mention is that there was some

1105
01:02:16,880 --> 01:02:22,000
evidence that this poll was leaked to Democrat officials prior

1106
01:02:22,119 --> 01:02:26,559
to its release, which plays into the suit as well

1107
01:02:27,000 --> 01:02:31,239
and might show some level of clusion. And then the

1108
01:02:31,239 --> 01:02:32,960
only other thing I wanted to mention is there's this

1109
01:02:33,039 --> 01:02:39,079
great scene in Narcos where the drug cartel party fakes

1110
01:02:39,159 --> 01:02:42,400
polling as a means of stealing the election. And the

1111
01:02:42,440 --> 01:02:47,519
whole idea is if they basically fake exit polls, and

1112
01:02:48,000 --> 01:02:50,760
in the hope that the fake exit polls will so

1113
01:02:51,000 --> 01:02:54,639
demoralize the supporters of the opposing party that they won't

1114
01:02:54,639 --> 01:02:58,400
bother to show up, and it ends up being exposed

1115
01:02:58,440 --> 01:02:59,639
and then they have to come up with a different

1116
01:02:59,639 --> 01:03:00,639
way to st feel the election.

1117
01:03:00,760 --> 01:03:03,400
Speaker 1: But I mean, I mean, are we going to start

1118
01:03:03,440 --> 01:03:06,639
suing people who call elections too quickly or are wrong

1119
01:03:06,800 --> 01:03:09,159
calls or I mean, there's a you could sue people

1120
01:03:09,199 --> 01:03:13,400
for everything the media does affects an election. Right, there's,

1121
01:03:13,480 --> 01:03:14,280
like you said.

1122
01:03:14,239 --> 01:03:17,599
Speaker 3: Knowing people over here and there's doing nothing over here,

1123
01:03:17,679 --> 01:03:20,599
and I just want to kind of have more conversation

1124
01:03:20,679 --> 01:03:25,400
about whether we should do nothing rather than whether we

1125
01:03:25,400 --> 01:03:25,920
should sue.

1126
01:03:26,000 --> 01:03:28,360
Speaker 1: Here's what you do. You say, look at this poster.

1127
01:03:29,119 --> 01:03:31,599
She's terrible and it's obvious that she shouldn't be in

1128
01:03:31,599 --> 01:03:34,360
this business. She doesn't even I think she's retired, right,

1129
01:03:34,599 --> 01:03:36,840
And you're like, we will never trust these people again.

1130
01:03:37,039 --> 01:03:39,679
That's the best way to go about it until they

1131
01:03:39,760 --> 01:03:42,280
start getting it right. Until they start getting it right.

1132
01:03:42,920 --> 01:03:45,000
Speaker 3: So we were also going to talk about another story,

1133
01:03:45,000 --> 01:03:47,079
but I think we need to save it for next

1134
01:03:47,119 --> 01:03:53,239
week on an explosive IG report. But we move Should

1135
01:03:53,280 --> 01:03:54,000
we move on to.

1136
01:03:56,880 --> 01:04:00,880
Speaker 1: Culture. Yeah, it's gonna a little battering. You're probably gonna

1137
01:04:00,880 --> 01:04:03,559
mock me. My things I watched this week, but one

1138
01:04:03,559 --> 01:04:08,159
of them was a cartoon for adults, not an adult cartoon,

1139
01:04:08,159 --> 01:04:11,320
but a cartoon for adults called The Watchman, which was

1140
01:04:11,320 --> 01:04:14,599
a famous graphic novel made a movie. It wasn't great,

1141
01:04:14,599 --> 01:04:17,360
But this cartoon, actually, I think is very It's a

1142
01:04:17,440 --> 01:04:20,920
very kind of gen X touchstone. I would say The

1143
01:04:20,960 --> 01:04:24,199
Watchmen and this cartoon I don't even know if it's

1144
01:04:24,239 --> 01:04:27,760
called a cartoon but animated. It's animated, and it was

1145
01:04:27,800 --> 01:04:30,480
excellence called The Watchman Part one, so I recommend that

1146
01:04:31,400 --> 01:04:34,159
second one is even more embarrassing. It's called The Skeleton Crew.

1147
01:04:34,199 --> 01:04:35,599
Did I mention this last week? I don't think so.

1148
01:04:35,639 --> 01:04:38,639
It's a Star Wars show on Disney Plus with Jude Law,

1149
01:04:38,800 --> 01:04:42,159
the very handsome Jude Law. It's for kids. It's kind

1150
01:04:42,159 --> 01:04:44,440
of like Goonies meets Star Wars. So if you have kids,

1151
01:04:44,480 --> 01:04:46,280
this is the Star Wars show for them to watch.

1152
01:04:46,360 --> 01:04:47,920
And then, because I didn't want to seem like a

1153
01:04:47,920 --> 01:04:52,800
complete low brow cartoon watcher, me and my wife watched

1154
01:04:52,880 --> 01:04:57,440
there's a Da Vinci documentary on PBS. I think it

1155
01:04:57,519 --> 01:05:00,880
might be ken Burns, so I'm not sure, very well done,

1156
01:05:01,039 --> 01:05:03,000
even though I'm not a big ken Burns fan. In general,

1157
01:05:03,360 --> 01:05:04,719
that's what I have this week.

1158
01:05:06,000 --> 01:05:09,840
Speaker 3: Oh my gosh, I have nothing. I'm so sorry. I'm

1159
01:05:09,880 --> 01:05:12,920
so busy. I've been listening to a lot of music.

1160
01:05:13,320 --> 01:05:18,239
I like listening to these Saclay concerts, which are frequently

1161
01:05:18,360 --> 01:05:23,679
house music or DJ things. I've been getting into Ben Boehmer.

1162
01:05:23,960 --> 01:05:24,760
You were listen to him.

1163
01:05:24,840 --> 01:05:26,159
Speaker 1: No, I don't know what any of this is.

1164
01:05:26,800 --> 01:05:29,119
Speaker 3: Okay, well i've been. And then also there are these

1165
01:05:29,760 --> 01:05:33,440
Arte concerts. I think they're usually done in London, but

1166
01:05:33,480 --> 01:05:36,000
I'm not sure. So I just listen to those while

1167
01:05:36,039 --> 01:05:39,760
I write. I need music that is enjoyable and gets

1168
01:05:39,760 --> 01:05:45,719
me in the right writing mood without being too disruptive.

1169
01:05:46,119 --> 01:05:49,400
Speaker 1: So does this have like a steady, like like a beat,

1170
01:05:49,440 --> 01:05:52,039
like like house music or whatever that was called when

1171
01:05:52,039 --> 01:05:52,599
they used to.

1172
01:05:52,679 --> 01:05:54,880
Speaker 3: Like lighthouse music, you know what I mean. It's like

1173
01:05:55,039 --> 01:05:58,400
it's it's it's got an energy to it, but it's

1174
01:05:58,440 --> 01:06:00,880
a very chill energy and builds up and there's some

1175
01:06:00,920 --> 01:06:04,239
really good stuff. But I didn't really prepare to remember

1176
01:06:04,320 --> 01:06:07,400
what the names were. And I while I was rowing,

1177
01:06:07,440 --> 01:06:11,239
I've been doing different things, but nothing's quite grabbed me.

1178
01:06:11,519 --> 01:06:14,119
So I'm I was hoping you would have a really

1179
01:06:14,119 --> 01:06:17,280
good suggestion, like You're a yacht rock documentary, because that

1180
01:06:17,400 --> 01:06:21,760
was so great. But I did sort of start watching this.

1181
01:06:23,119 --> 01:06:25,119
It's called like no good Deed.

1182
01:06:26,320 --> 01:06:29,320
Speaker 1: Oh I said that with Ray Romano and some other

1183
01:06:29,360 --> 01:06:31,039
people Lisakutro, I think.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, and it's like kind of okay. But in my dotage,

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01:06:35,840 --> 01:06:40,239
I'm getting much less tolerant of watching drugs or illicit

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01:06:40,360 --> 01:06:42,480
sex or things like this, Like I'm just kind of

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01:06:42,519 --> 01:06:44,280
I don't want to see any of that or think

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about it.

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Speaker 1: Or oh I'm old too, but it just seems unnecessary.

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01:06:48,239 --> 01:06:49,920
I'm aways like, why why do I have to watch

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01:06:49,960 --> 01:06:51,679
these people having sex? You know what I mean? The

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01:06:51,760 --> 01:06:57,920
strangers gross and yeah street now I just you know,

1193
01:06:58,159 --> 01:07:00,679
I just don't. It just never has anything to do

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01:07:00,719 --> 01:07:03,960
with the story. It doesn't enhance the storytelling usually. I mean,

1195
01:07:04,000 --> 01:07:06,000
maybe there are some places that you need it, but

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usually you don't. Yeah.

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Speaker 3: I also learned a term recently called idiot plot, where

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01:07:12,679 --> 01:07:15,239
the term refers to this wouldn't be happening if the

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people weren't idiots, and Mark gets so angry at me

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01:07:20,840 --> 01:07:22,880
when we're watching something and I'm like, this is stupid,

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01:07:23,039 --> 01:07:24,719
this is stupid. Why didn't they just do this or that?

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01:07:24,760 --> 01:07:27,559
You know? But I don't like true idiot plots, like

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01:07:27,559 --> 01:07:29,920
I can understand like oh I didn't expect that to happen,

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01:07:30,119 --> 01:07:35,239
or oh you know this problems right outside, But when

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01:07:35,280 --> 01:07:38,280
it's just stupid people, I think that's like watching people

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01:07:38,320 --> 01:07:40,719
do drugs. It's just not enjoyable to me.

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01:07:41,360 --> 01:07:44,280
Speaker 1: So you mean, when they're just acting in implausibly stupid

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01:07:44,320 --> 01:07:46,800
ways and it shouldn't happen and you just don't buy it,

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01:07:46,880 --> 01:07:51,000
that's the idiot plot. Yeah, it's like that commercial where

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01:07:51,079 --> 01:07:53,760
the where these teenage kids are doing everything wrong in

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01:07:53,760 --> 01:07:55,679
like a fake horror movie, like running out into the

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01:07:55,679 --> 01:07:57,840
cornfield instead of getting in the car and leaving that

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01:07:57,920 --> 01:08:01,239
sort of thing. Yeah, all right, m you're gonna have

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01:08:01,239 --> 01:08:02,960
to watch something over the holiday, so we have something

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to talk about in culture.

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Speaker 3: I'm writing, I have no time, but yes, we'll do my.

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01:08:07,400 --> 01:08:10,760
Speaker 1: I'll watch more animated Yeah, I'll watch more animated stuff

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01:08:10,760 --> 01:08:13,079
so we can talk about it. All right. Well, it

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01:08:13,119 --> 01:08:14,760
was nice speaking to you, Molly, and nice speaking to

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01:08:14,800 --> 01:08:17,479
everyone else. We'll talk to you next week. Until then,

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01:08:17,520 --> 01:08:19,399
be lovers of freedom and anxious for the fray