WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.240 --> 00:00:03.319 Oh hey, it's the first three alarms that you turned 2 00:00:03.319 --> 00:00:06.599 off in your sleep. It's alleyboard Ologies. We're doing it. 3 00:00:06.719 --> 00:00:12.119 Pinapdology for conceals seallions, walrus dongs. Let's talk first, though. 4 00:00:12.400 --> 00:00:15.599 Thank you to patrons at patreon dot com slash ologies 5 00:00:15.640 --> 00:00:18.640 for submitting questions. It costs just a buck a month 6 00:00:18.839 --> 00:00:21.559 to join that club. Come on over. Also, thank you 7 00:00:21.559 --> 00:00:25.839 to anyone who has hit subscribe, who's told a friend, texted, tweeted, 8 00:00:26.039 --> 00:00:29.839 left reviews. I read all your reviews like a gentle creep. 9 00:00:30.160 --> 00:00:34.679 And this week's fresh review is from someone named m Fox, 10 00:00:34.719 --> 00:00:38.600 who says Ologies is a life changingly good podcast. Did 11 00:00:38.600 --> 00:00:42.520 I get a snail tattoo after listening to the Malacology episode? Yes, 12 00:00:43.119 --> 00:00:46.320 as your Internet dad, I approve. Also, congrats to a 13 00:00:46.359 --> 00:00:48.640 hopeful scientist for heading back to school to get a PhD. 14 00:00:49.320 --> 00:00:52.960 Hell yeah, go get it, okay. Pinapidology, it comes from 15 00:00:53.000 --> 00:00:57.280 the Latin for having fins for feet, And it wasn't 16 00:00:57.359 --> 00:01:00.679 until maybe fifteen minutes ago that I knew that it 17 00:01:00.719 --> 00:01:04.280 wasn't related to pinna, meaning ear, even though ears play 18 00:01:04.319 --> 00:01:07.760 a very important role in triumphantly explaining the difference between 19 00:01:07.760 --> 00:01:10.159 a seal and a sea lion. More on that later, 20 00:01:10.400 --> 00:01:13.840 but this ologist studied marine biology for his bachelor's, got 21 00:01:13.920 --> 00:01:17.359 a master's in oceanography in Chile and a PhD in 22 00:01:17.439 --> 00:01:19.760 ocean studies from UC Santa Cruz and is now an 23 00:01:19.760 --> 00:01:22.760 assistant researcher at the Institute of Marine Sciences at the 24 00:01:22.840 --> 00:01:27.439 University of California, Santa Cruz and an abject professor at 25 00:01:27.480 --> 00:01:30.920 the University of North Carolina, Wilmington. He's studied marine mammals 26 00:01:30.920 --> 00:01:33.680 for years and years, and his name comes up in 27 00:01:33.760 --> 00:01:37.480 over one hundred published papers on seals and sea lions, 28 00:01:37.519 --> 00:01:40.560 and I have had him on my sonar for at 29 00:01:40.640 --> 00:01:43.359 least six months. I was so excited to talk to him, 30 00:01:43.400 --> 00:01:47.040 and after his lamb seal aka his dog went for 31 00:01:47.159 --> 00:01:49.640 a potty outside, we met up. We hopped on the horn. 32 00:01:49.719 --> 00:01:53.560 I asked him about everything from blubber to ocean currents, 33 00:01:53.879 --> 00:02:00.000 psychedelic teeth, receding ice, whisker technology, belly scooting snoop boot 34 00:02:00.319 --> 00:02:05.760 octopus smacking, wolverus, tusks and other bony structures, and Arctic expeditions, 35 00:02:05.799 --> 00:02:10.159 butt nubbins and more. With World Explorer, Sea mammal enthusiast 36 00:02:10.240 --> 00:02:15.599 marine ecologist, seal and sea lion physiologist and pina pedologist 37 00:02:16.080 --> 00:02:17.719 Doctor Louise Hukstad. 38 00:02:37.319 --> 00:02:39.759 My name is Fly Huckstad and my prannouns are he, 39 00:02:40.080 --> 00:02:43.759 him and L. I guess since I Chilean. 40 00:02:44.919 --> 00:02:47.319 Good to know. Oh, that's right, ol, because you're now 41 00:02:47.319 --> 00:02:48.120 where are you right now? 42 00:02:48.199 --> 00:02:50.800 We're not Wilmington, North Carolina. 43 00:02:51.039 --> 00:02:53.039 Which is not Chile. 44 00:02:54.039 --> 00:02:57.000 I've lived in the state for the last sixteen years almost. 45 00:02:57.199 --> 00:02:59.879 Oh you have, And what are you doing in Wilmington 46 00:03:00.879 --> 00:03:01.280 right now? 47 00:03:01.280 --> 00:03:05.120 I'm visiting researchers. So I got a fellowship to come 48 00:03:05.120 --> 00:03:08.840 here for a semester, and I've been working here, giving 49 00:03:08.919 --> 00:03:12.479 a god student class and doing research with a couple 50 00:03:12.479 --> 00:03:13.479 of collaborators here. 51 00:03:13.560 --> 00:03:17.520 Ag W What do I always say ask smart people, 52 00:03:17.879 --> 00:03:22.560 not smart questions. Are there seals in North Carolina? 53 00:03:23.159 --> 00:03:27.599 No, there's I mean now, it looks like every now 54 00:03:27.639 --> 00:03:30.520 and then they get some random stranded seals that come up, 55 00:03:30.639 --> 00:03:33.159 come this, this far down from this from the Arctic, 56 00:03:33.719 --> 00:03:34.680 but they don't live here. 57 00:03:35.199 --> 00:03:38.879 Okay, I wasn't sure. Actually this brings us to a 58 00:03:38.919 --> 00:03:42.800 great question. What is the seal? What is the seal? 59 00:03:42.879 --> 00:03:43.840 What is the pinnapad? 60 00:03:44.840 --> 00:03:47.960 So a pinnipeg is a sub order. 61 00:03:48.080 --> 00:03:52.039 So if you if you know something about how animals 62 00:03:52.039 --> 00:03:55.639 are put into categories, there's the class mammalia. So all 63 00:03:55.719 --> 00:03:58.840 my mamas basically are together, and we did the class. 64 00:03:58.840 --> 00:04:03.960 There's orders, right, sort of some categors within mammals, and 65 00:04:03.960 --> 00:04:08.599 one of the main ones is carnivores, and so pinipets 66 00:04:08.599 --> 00:04:13.719 are related to bears and dogs and cats and all that. 67 00:04:14.039 --> 00:04:18.199 But it's sort of like the aquatic branch of those guys, got. 68 00:04:18.000 --> 00:04:20.519 It, Seals are carnivores. 69 00:04:20.720 --> 00:04:24.480 Yeah, so seals are carnivores, so they're together with the 70 00:04:24.600 --> 00:04:29.120 cusses relative on man will be bears basically, but they 71 00:04:29.120 --> 00:04:32.360 are they come from that branch of animals basically, so 72 00:04:32.360 --> 00:04:36.199 they're related to cats and dogs and bears and otters 73 00:04:36.319 --> 00:04:37.560 and all those guys. 74 00:04:38.120 --> 00:04:41.079 The otters, I'm totally like, yeah, of course, but the bears. 75 00:04:41.360 --> 00:04:43.600 That's really flipping my ship right now. 76 00:04:43.839 --> 00:04:47.240 Yeah, so bears and pinipets share a common. 77 00:04:46.920 --> 00:04:52.279 Ancestor, okay, and bears have cute tiny little ears. Seals 78 00:04:52.319 --> 00:04:55.720 and sealions and wall versus cute tiny little ears. 79 00:04:55.759 --> 00:05:00.720 Also, no, yees, sea lions. Seallions actually include both seallions 80 00:05:00.759 --> 00:05:04.279 and fur seals, and those guys have ears external ears 81 00:05:04.319 --> 00:05:08.519 basically what we call the pinat so true seals, those 82 00:05:08.560 --> 00:05:12.439 guys don't have an external ear like our ear that 83 00:05:12.480 --> 00:05:15.319 we can see, but they do have of course everything 84 00:05:15.360 --> 00:05:18.160 internal I can hear you basically. 85 00:05:18.920 --> 00:05:25.439 Ah, so don't talk smack about them exactly. Can you 86 00:05:26.120 --> 00:05:29.399 list off for me? What are pinnipeds? 87 00:05:29.639 --> 00:05:33.079 Yeah, So there's three families within the pinnipets. The first 88 00:05:33.120 --> 00:05:36.560 one is the walrus, which is just a species. 89 00:05:36.680 --> 00:05:37.399 I am the walrus. 90 00:05:38.079 --> 00:05:41.439 The other one are the true seals, and the third 91 00:05:41.480 --> 00:05:44.040 family includes seallions and four seals. 92 00:05:44.920 --> 00:05:47.120 Got it, and elephant seals are included in that. 93 00:05:47.639 --> 00:05:50.720 Elephant seals are true seals are the biggest elephants is 94 00:05:50.720 --> 00:05:53.120 actually are the biggest of the seals. 95 00:05:53.199 --> 00:05:53.920 So huge. 96 00:05:54.240 --> 00:05:56.519 Yeah, they're massive, so giant. 97 00:05:57.079 --> 00:06:01.800 Okay, So families of pinnipeds include the walrus. There's just 98 00:06:01.959 --> 00:06:05.279 one species of walrus, the walrus. Then there are some 99 00:06:05.480 --> 00:06:07.759 fake ass just getting they're not fake, they're just not 100 00:06:07.959 --> 00:06:13.240 true seals called otaridai. And these are seals with ears, 101 00:06:13.319 --> 00:06:16.519 and sea lions and fur seals. And then there are 102 00:06:16.560 --> 00:06:20.519 the true seals, which are earless sort of ear lobliss 103 00:06:20.639 --> 00:06:23.959 and there are thirty three species of pinnipeds total, all 104 00:06:24.000 --> 00:06:27.800 of which you want to stare lovingly at. And what's 105 00:06:27.879 --> 00:06:31.279 their range? Where do pinnipeds live? When did they kind 106 00:06:31.319 --> 00:06:35.720 of like waddle off of land and start bobbing around 107 00:06:35.759 --> 00:06:36.279 in the water. 108 00:06:36.759 --> 00:06:40.519 Yeah, so they're they're pretty much everywhere. They tend to 109 00:06:40.560 --> 00:06:44.240 hang out more colder environments. So you have the highest 110 00:06:44.240 --> 00:06:48.240 diversity of seals in the Arctic and the Antarctic, but 111 00:06:48.399 --> 00:06:52.439 there's seals, well, pinipets basically in the equator. There's sea 112 00:06:52.480 --> 00:06:55.680 lions and roses that live in the Galapago silence, but 113 00:06:55.759 --> 00:06:59.560 most of them actually do leave instead of colder environments. 114 00:06:59.560 --> 00:07:03.360 Cald w so the west, because of North Americas were 115 00:07:04.079 --> 00:07:07.959 the ancestor of the seals sort of recolonized water. So 116 00:07:08.160 --> 00:07:11.759 around I think the area of British Columbia or something 117 00:07:11.800 --> 00:07:14.480 like that, twenty five million years ago there was about 118 00:07:14.519 --> 00:07:14.959 the size of. 119 00:07:14.959 --> 00:07:17.560 A sea odor. It's called pujila, and. 120 00:07:17.519 --> 00:07:21.519 That's the first sort of ancestor of a seal. And 121 00:07:21.560 --> 00:07:25.319 then along the custland of northern California, Oregon, that's where 122 00:07:25.360 --> 00:07:27.560 we see the first fossil of a real pelipad. 123 00:07:28.079 --> 00:07:32.519 So the ancestors of modern seals and sea lions slipped 124 00:07:32.600 --> 00:07:35.680 off the terrain of Earth and back into the water 125 00:07:36.079 --> 00:07:39.439 off the coast of the Pacific Northwest. They think that 126 00:07:39.560 --> 00:07:43.399 makes me feel so like homesick and validated because I'm 127 00:07:43.439 --> 00:07:46.759 from the Bay Area where the waters. You go to 128 00:07:46.800 --> 00:07:48.560 the beach in the Bay Area and you go out 129 00:07:48.560 --> 00:07:51.600 there with a windbreaker and you're like, ah, it's nice, 130 00:07:51.680 --> 00:07:54.560 let's get back in the car. So the Pacific is 131 00:07:54.639 --> 00:07:57.160 so cold, and people obviously like don't think about that 132 00:07:57.160 --> 00:08:00.399 when they think about California. And so, why do you 133 00:08:00.519 --> 00:08:03.800 think or why do scientists think that they evolved to 134 00:08:04.000 --> 00:08:05.680 dig colder waters. 135 00:08:06.839 --> 00:08:09.160 It's partly related to the fact that colder waters are 136 00:08:09.319 --> 00:08:11.079 more productive biologically. 137 00:08:11.720 --> 00:08:14.920 What does more productive biologically mean exactly? 138 00:08:15.560 --> 00:08:18.560 So, because they're more productive, there's more food than these animals. 139 00:08:18.680 --> 00:08:22.680 They're big animals. They also have high metabolic rates because 140 00:08:22.720 --> 00:08:25.720 they're mammals, right, so they have to keep constant temperature, 141 00:08:26.000 --> 00:08:28.199 so they eat a lot of food. So in order 142 00:08:28.439 --> 00:08:31.639 to support their populations, they need a lot of food. 143 00:08:31.800 --> 00:08:33.639 And the environments where you have a lot of food 144 00:08:33.639 --> 00:08:35.759 in the ocean tend to be the coldor water. So 145 00:08:36.240 --> 00:08:39.919 upwelling areas like the California Current or colder waters in 146 00:08:39.960 --> 00:08:41.639 the Arctic or the Antarctic. 147 00:08:42.320 --> 00:08:45.159 So he says that the Humboldt currents and South American 148 00:08:45.200 --> 00:08:49.639 currents bring Anarctic water to the coast of Chile and Peru, 149 00:08:49.919 --> 00:08:54.480 bringing a pretty sweet ecosystem for seals. How cold are 150 00:08:54.720 --> 00:08:58.559 the waters off of Chile And at what point did 151 00:08:58.639 --> 00:09:02.639 you set yourself on seals or wall versus or elephant 152 00:09:02.639 --> 00:09:07.039 seals or sea lions or for seals, elaborate seals and say, dang, 153 00:09:07.080 --> 00:09:07.879 those things are cool. 154 00:09:08.840 --> 00:09:12.080 So let me think about this. First of all, Chili 155 00:09:12.200 --> 00:09:12.519 sort of. 156 00:09:12.559 --> 00:09:16.159 The mirror image of California, So you imagine putting a 157 00:09:16.200 --> 00:09:19.720 mirror in the equator. Chilias is the exact same opposite 158 00:09:19.759 --> 00:09:22.320 of the California current system, so we have very similar 159 00:09:22.440 --> 00:09:26.879 water temperature, similar kind of environments, et cetera. So that 160 00:09:26.960 --> 00:09:29.840 sort of explains why there's so many peanupets and Chili 161 00:09:29.840 --> 00:09:31.519 as well. There's not that many species, but there's a 162 00:09:31.519 --> 00:09:35.000 lot of individuals. However, my story is a little bit 163 00:09:35.639 --> 00:09:38.279 more concluded than that, because I was actually born and 164 00:09:38.360 --> 00:09:43.399 raised in Venezuela, not in Chile too. Chilian parents though, 165 00:09:43.960 --> 00:09:45.840 and every time ever since I was a little kid, 166 00:09:45.840 --> 00:09:48.080 I was about nine or ten, I wanted to be 167 00:09:48.120 --> 00:09:51.200 a marine biologist and I wanted to study marine mammals. 168 00:09:51.240 --> 00:09:52.639 And I think it has to do with the fact 169 00:09:52.639 --> 00:09:55.159 that I grew up in the eighties and then remember 170 00:09:55.279 --> 00:09:58.720 the commercials of seawall or they have Shemu fly in 171 00:09:58.720 --> 00:10:00.440 among clouds and. 172 00:10:00.720 --> 00:10:03.399 Come see on a new davision. 173 00:10:04.960 --> 00:10:07.399 And the sea lion like playing with the ball, and 174 00:10:08.000 --> 00:10:09.519 I guess that as a kid, I saw that and 175 00:10:09.519 --> 00:10:12.000 I was sort of mesmerized by marie mammals, and I 176 00:10:12.039 --> 00:10:12.879 wanted to. 177 00:10:13.000 --> 00:10:13.720 Get do that. 178 00:10:14.240 --> 00:10:16.519 So by the time that I my parents decided to 179 00:10:16.559 --> 00:10:18.960 move back to Chile, I was sixteen years old. And 180 00:10:19.000 --> 00:10:21.159 one of the arguments that they used to convince me 181 00:10:21.240 --> 00:10:23.480 to move was that there's marine. 182 00:10:23.240 --> 00:10:23.919 Mammos in Chile. 183 00:10:24.799 --> 00:10:29.639 And they bought it, so I decided, yeah, that's even 184 00:10:29.679 --> 00:10:31.360 though I was a sixteen year old, I of course 185 00:10:31.360 --> 00:10:33.039 didn't want to move the new country. When I was 186 00:10:33.120 --> 00:10:36.600 a teenage yeer, they told me that, and yeah, automatically 187 00:10:36.679 --> 00:10:37.960 was like, yeah, I'd move to Chile. 188 00:10:38.799 --> 00:10:41.000 Every since I was ten years. 189 00:10:40.840 --> 00:10:42.480 Old or something like that, I knew that I wanted 190 00:10:42.480 --> 00:10:45.000 to work with married mammals, So yeah, that's basically how 191 00:10:45.000 --> 00:10:47.080 I ended up choosing his career. 192 00:10:48.399 --> 00:10:52.879 That's amazing. Essentially, the pennapeds sealed the deal. 193 00:10:53.159 --> 00:10:56.879 Wow, that's awful exactly, So. 194 00:10:56.919 --> 00:11:04.039 Sorry, And what's it's your take now on a quaria 195 00:11:04.120 --> 00:11:08.200 that have marine mammals versus being a marine mammal biologist 196 00:11:08.279 --> 00:11:12.600 and a pnepedologist, why did you at what point in 197 00:11:12.639 --> 00:11:16.519 your studies did you decide I want to study wild 198 00:11:16.639 --> 00:11:19.320 animals rather than work with them in captivity. 199 00:11:19.919 --> 00:11:22.240 Well, I think the most of us actually work with 200 00:11:22.240 --> 00:11:25.600 marine mammals. We want to work with them in the wild, right, 201 00:11:25.679 --> 00:11:29.360 That's that's the idea. But we also acknowledge that it's 202 00:11:29.360 --> 00:11:32.679 impossible to know a lot of things about these animals 203 00:11:32.799 --> 00:11:34.919 unless we have them in a control environment. So we 204 00:11:35.000 --> 00:11:37.320 have to do a lot of experiments with these animals. 205 00:11:37.720 --> 00:11:41.440 We have to come up with protocols to then apply 206 00:11:41.519 --> 00:11:44.960 them to wild animals. So even though I know there's 207 00:11:44.960 --> 00:11:46.840 a hot topic and a lot of people are against that, 208 00:11:46.879 --> 00:11:49.600 particularly because they're marine mammals and people think they're charismatic 209 00:11:49.639 --> 00:11:51.559 and they're fluffy and you want to help them, right, 210 00:11:51.600 --> 00:11:55.159 So a lot of people are against captivity. However, in 211 00:11:55.200 --> 00:11:57.720 the community of scientists that work with Marie mammals, we 212 00:11:57.759 --> 00:12:01.120 do acknowledge that there's a benefit, that there's a plus 213 00:12:01.120 --> 00:12:02.679 side to have animous in captivity. 214 00:12:03.320 --> 00:12:06.799 Louis says that in order to help wild populations, it's 215 00:12:06.840 --> 00:12:10.279 necessary for the mammal scientists who devote their lives to 216 00:12:10.279 --> 00:12:12.759 them to be able to study these critters in a 217 00:12:12.799 --> 00:12:16.240 controlled environment, to know what their blood volume is and 218 00:12:16.279 --> 00:12:19.480 their chemistry with certain diets, et cetera. But all of 219 00:12:19.519 --> 00:12:22.799 that depends on largely on the conditions that they're kept under. 220 00:12:23.360 --> 00:12:26.840 So you have to be very conscientious about the ethics 221 00:12:26.879 --> 00:12:30.399 of the aquaria for example, that you're working with, making 222 00:12:30.440 --> 00:12:33.559 sure that there's enough space, et cetera. And there's also 223 00:12:33.600 --> 00:12:35.720 the fact that a lot of the time must have 224 00:12:35.919 --> 00:12:39.600 lived in captivity for generations. You kind of just bring 225 00:12:39.679 --> 00:12:41.480 them back into the wild and release it. 226 00:12:41.519 --> 00:12:42.360 That's impossible. 227 00:12:42.759 --> 00:12:46.759 Ideally in my mind, I wouldn't have a missing captivity, 228 00:12:46.759 --> 00:12:48.799 but I acknowledge that they have a huge potential. 229 00:12:48.960 --> 00:12:50.559 Tell me a little bit about what your life as 230 00:12:50.600 --> 00:12:53.840 a pine of pedologist looks, like how often are you 231 00:12:54.080 --> 00:12:58.440 on expeditions versus being say in North Carolina, where you 232 00:12:58.519 --> 00:13:01.320 might be looking at data more or animals in captivity, 233 00:13:01.399 --> 00:13:08.000 Like how many parkas. Do you own? He does your 234 00:13:08.240 --> 00:13:10.879 work smell like fish? Like? Tell me about it? 235 00:13:11.000 --> 00:13:13.519 So it depends on So I've been very lucky ever 236 00:13:13.559 --> 00:13:16.159 since I was a grass student and a PhD. I 237 00:13:16.200 --> 00:13:18.440 came to USIE Santa cris in California to do my 238 00:13:18.480 --> 00:13:20.960 PhD in the Coastal Lab with Dan Costa, which is 239 00:13:21.000 --> 00:13:23.320 sort of one of the biggest names in marimammal research 240 00:13:23.639 --> 00:13:24.279 in the world. 241 00:13:24.639 --> 00:13:27.519 That's right, it's the Coastal Lab, not the Coastal Lab. 242 00:13:27.799 --> 00:13:31.360 It's Dan Costa, whose last name means coast and is 243 00:13:31.399 --> 00:13:35.039 one of the world's leading researchers in coastal animals. And 244 00:13:35.080 --> 00:13:37.679 I looked him up. In one photo online, Dan Costa 245 00:13:37.759 --> 00:13:39.960 is kind of kneeling on a field of ice, and 246 00:13:40.000 --> 00:13:42.240 he's wearing one of those big red parkas that people 247 00:13:42.240 --> 00:13:45.039 in the Antarctic wear, and his salt and pepper beard 248 00:13:45.120 --> 00:13:48.799 is just level with a seal sporting a six inch 249 00:13:49.039 --> 00:13:53.320 head antenna, kind of like a modest narwhal. Anyway, Lewis 250 00:13:53.399 --> 00:13:56.039 worked in the Coastal Lab and got lucky. 251 00:13:56.279 --> 00:13:58.399 He had this project and he didn't have any students 252 00:13:58.440 --> 00:14:00.159 working on that, so he offered to me and I 253 00:14:00.200 --> 00:14:02.480 was like, of course, I'll work with that. It was 254 00:14:02.519 --> 00:14:05.440 in Antarctica. It's not only I'm get to go to Antarctica. 255 00:14:05.799 --> 00:14:07.960 I get to go to Antarctica through Chiles. Is a 256 00:14:08.360 --> 00:14:14.600 free ticket home noise. But also I've been very lucky 257 00:14:14.600 --> 00:14:18.240 in the fact that I've been invited to work all 258 00:14:18.279 --> 00:14:22.039 over the place. So I've worked in California, so there's 259 00:14:22.039 --> 00:14:25.159 a small colony of elephant seals. It's about thirty minutes 260 00:14:25.279 --> 00:14:27.879 north of Santa Cruz in California, and that's where we 261 00:14:27.960 --> 00:14:30.639 do a lot of the research with northern elephant seals. 262 00:14:30.720 --> 00:14:34.559 He's worked in Mexico and California with California sea lions, 263 00:14:34.840 --> 00:14:38.080 which can measure up to nine feet long, weighing eight 264 00:14:38.159 --> 00:14:41.039 hundred pounds. And remember they're the ones with a little 265 00:14:41.039 --> 00:14:44.159 tidy ear sees. And he's worked in the Galapagos with 266 00:14:44.480 --> 00:14:48.240 the endangered Glacago sea lions fur seals. He's worked in 267 00:14:48.360 --> 00:14:52.279 Uruguay and Chile with South American sea lions. The dude 268 00:14:52.480 --> 00:14:55.480 has had adventures anywhere else notable. 269 00:14:56.399 --> 00:14:59.960 Yeah, and I've been to Ontarctica about ten times, where 270 00:15:00.000 --> 00:15:04.360 working with Southern infant seals, grabator seals, Antarctic fur seals, 271 00:15:04.639 --> 00:15:05.720 upper seals. 272 00:15:06.200 --> 00:15:09.480 And when you're doing the work, what are you doing. 273 00:15:09.559 --> 00:15:12.559 Are you hiding out in a tent and recording every move? 274 00:15:12.840 --> 00:15:16.639 Are you hugging them? Are you taking blood samples? What 275 00:15:16.679 --> 00:15:18.080 does that field work look like? 276 00:15:18.279 --> 00:15:18.840 I love of that. 277 00:15:18.919 --> 00:15:21.320 So it depends on where you are. So I never 278 00:15:21.639 --> 00:15:25.799 actually have the experience of the hardcore biologies that lives 279 00:15:25.840 --> 00:15:28.559 in a tent for weeks at a time. I've done 280 00:15:28.600 --> 00:15:30.799 that for like two weeks in that sale, I've got 281 00:15:30.799 --> 00:15:34.200 to more sort of spoiled camp sites and field sites. 282 00:15:34.279 --> 00:15:38.399 So the worst condition and this quote unquote wars. 283 00:15:38.519 --> 00:15:40.320 When I was working on my dissertation, I went to 284 00:15:40.360 --> 00:15:42.879 work with Southern elephan Seas and we have a camp. Well, 285 00:15:43.000 --> 00:15:45.440 Noah has a camp where we were saying, but they 286 00:15:45.480 --> 00:15:48.879 have absolutely everything there. You have the onlyft they don't 287 00:15:48.879 --> 00:15:51.799 have is specifically internet. But you have a satellite phone, 288 00:15:51.840 --> 00:15:55.600 you have a generator of electricity, you have a cabin, 289 00:15:55.759 --> 00:15:58.039 You have beds, so it's nothing bad. You have a 290 00:15:58.080 --> 00:15:59.039 shower even. 291 00:16:00.840 --> 00:16:03.600 And when Louis says the Noah camp, he doesn't mean 292 00:16:03.840 --> 00:16:07.200 rustic bunkers with his friend Noah. Noah is the National 293 00:16:07.240 --> 00:16:11.120 Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration, which is a United States Scientific 294 00:16:11.159 --> 00:16:15.840 Agency within the Department of Commerce and their field lodgings 295 00:16:15.879 --> 00:16:18.919 more like summer camp housing from what I gather and 296 00:16:19.120 --> 00:16:22.720 life as a seal researcher ranges from that all the 297 00:16:22.759 --> 00:16:26.519 way up to the Murdo Research Station in Antarctica, which 298 00:16:26.639 --> 00:16:28.759 by comparison is pretty plush. 299 00:16:28.879 --> 00:16:33.039 Well, you have three bars, you have ATMs, you have so, 300 00:16:33.279 --> 00:16:36.639 you have Wi Fi, you have a coffee shop. You're 301 00:16:36.679 --> 00:16:39.320 super spoiling there. So does have been sort of my 302 00:16:39.360 --> 00:16:40.440 experiences in the field. 303 00:16:41.759 --> 00:16:45.159 Is there a type of fieldwork that you really love doing? 304 00:16:45.279 --> 00:16:48.639 How close to the pinnepeds do you get to be? 305 00:16:49.039 --> 00:16:51.480 Yeah, so that's that's good thing. 306 00:16:51.519 --> 00:16:54.080 Because I didn't finish I forgot about the take a 307 00:16:54.080 --> 00:16:55.159 part of yours question. 308 00:16:55.840 --> 00:16:56.879 I work with animals. 309 00:16:56.879 --> 00:17:00.360 Basically, I define myself as an ecologies but also do 310 00:17:00.399 --> 00:17:03.000 a little bit of physiology, so basically looking into how 311 00:17:03.000 --> 00:17:06.400 the animals feed within their ecosystem and how they operate. 312 00:17:06.920 --> 00:17:09.240 And in order for us to do that, I basically 313 00:17:09.319 --> 00:17:11.640 use two different methodologies. One of them is what we 314 00:17:11.720 --> 00:17:15.359 call biologging, which means basically put in tax on animal 315 00:17:15.440 --> 00:17:17.720 any instruments that you can put in an animal to 316 00:17:17.839 --> 00:17:20.279 measure things like where they go, how did they dive, 317 00:17:20.440 --> 00:17:24.839 how fast they move even thinking about their body for example, 318 00:17:24.839 --> 00:17:25.880 their temperature, et cetera. 319 00:17:26.000 --> 00:17:27.160 So I use a lot of that. 320 00:17:27.920 --> 00:17:32.559 Okay, this biologging equipment, remember the seal hat with the antenna. 321 00:17:32.880 --> 00:17:36.279 It's like that or tagging or collars, and it helps 322 00:17:36.319 --> 00:17:40.440 pinapedologists figure out where these animals are headed and how 323 00:17:40.480 --> 00:17:42.319 they eat, so they can make sure to protect their 324 00:17:42.319 --> 00:17:45.880 food sources and thus them and right on queue. By 325 00:17:45.920 --> 00:17:49.920 the way, Lewis's dog demonstrated a blinged out mammal by 326 00:17:50.039 --> 00:17:52.799 shaking her own color to measure, so yeah, kind of 327 00:17:52.839 --> 00:17:55.960 like that. Now. Researchers like Louis will also take blood 328 00:17:55.960 --> 00:17:59.240 samples to figure out what seals eat because what a 329 00:17:59.279 --> 00:18:02.880 pinniped is half a kilometer underwater, it's kind of hard 330 00:18:02.880 --> 00:18:05.400 to see what they're munching on. So to analyze this, 331 00:18:05.480 --> 00:18:09.759 pinepnologists use stable isotopes, which are non radioactive forms of 332 00:18:09.839 --> 00:18:14.039 nucleotides that don't spontaneously undergo radioactive decay. 333 00:18:14.279 --> 00:18:18.440 They're stable basically sort of markers that tell me something 334 00:18:18.440 --> 00:18:20.720 about their diet and where they go, et cetera. So 335 00:18:20.759 --> 00:18:24.200 I can make sure that on their tissues, their blood, 336 00:18:24.240 --> 00:18:26.720 their fur, their whisker, et cetera. So I can collect 337 00:18:26.759 --> 00:18:30.599 those samples from the animals when they're under anesthesia. We 338 00:18:30.640 --> 00:18:32.720 can include the instruments on them and then let them 339 00:18:32.759 --> 00:18:35.720 go into their thing and then retrieve the information later. 340 00:18:36.400 --> 00:18:41.400 So you get to straight up touch seals under permitted conditions. 341 00:18:41.039 --> 00:18:42.200 And then a lot of permits. 342 00:18:42.279 --> 00:18:46.319 Yeah, so many questions about getting to touch a seal, 343 00:18:46.359 --> 00:18:49.359 which ninety nine point nine percent of people will not 344 00:18:49.400 --> 00:18:51.720 get to do, but one hundred percent of people want 345 00:18:51.759 --> 00:18:51.960 to do. 346 00:18:52.200 --> 00:18:52.519 Yeah. 347 00:18:53.319 --> 00:18:56.759 Are they silky? Are they soft? Is it like petting 348 00:18:56.839 --> 00:19:01.119 a chocolate labrador or is it more like a cat? 349 00:19:01.400 --> 00:19:07.119 Or and are they muscly or are they like like 350 00:19:07.200 --> 00:19:09.079 what texture of seal? 351 00:19:09.440 --> 00:19:12.759 Tell me everything? So it depends the species. Right, So 352 00:19:14.000 --> 00:19:15.799 have you ever pat a great day? 353 00:19:16.279 --> 00:19:16.599 Yes? 354 00:19:16.920 --> 00:19:20.200 So that's sort of what it feels like, Okay for 355 00:19:20.359 --> 00:19:23.720 a true seal. True seals don't have they're not very furry. 356 00:19:23.759 --> 00:19:26.720 They don't have the nice and undir fur like like 357 00:19:26.799 --> 00:19:29.559 the first seals, So they just have sort of the 358 00:19:29.640 --> 00:19:32.799 guard hair. So their hair is sort of more rigid. 359 00:19:33.119 --> 00:19:37.000 It's kind of coarse, so they're not very very very 360 00:19:37.039 --> 00:19:40.599 fluffy when you touch them. Okay, they feel very mostly 361 00:19:40.720 --> 00:19:43.559 but they actually or when you're touching them, you're basically 362 00:19:43.599 --> 00:19:47.039 touching the skin that lies over the blobber, and the 363 00:19:47.079 --> 00:19:49.319 blobber is not blobbery. 364 00:19:49.359 --> 00:19:52.119 It's not like yellow. It's actually sort of rigid. 365 00:19:52.240 --> 00:19:57.279 So they're they're likely like compact little bolts of fat. 366 00:19:58.720 --> 00:20:02.160 Actually, what's the differentference between blubber and fat. 367 00:20:03.480 --> 00:20:07.240 Blobbery is more of a complicated fat that has an 368 00:20:07.240 --> 00:20:10.599 added structure to it, so it has some proteins in there. 369 00:20:10.799 --> 00:20:12.720 It makes the fat a little bit more rigid. 370 00:20:13.359 --> 00:20:16.200 Oh okay, if you're moving through the water, it's going 371 00:20:16.240 --> 00:20:18.920 to make sure that you are just as tight as 372 00:20:18.920 --> 00:20:22.759 possible because anything that you have that moves with you, 373 00:20:22.839 --> 00:20:27.000 that wiggles, you're basically add adding drag, and that's bad 374 00:20:27.000 --> 00:20:29.400 when you're moving through the water. For example, the shape 375 00:20:29.400 --> 00:20:32.759 of a dolphin is that perfect sort of torpedo like shape, 376 00:20:32.839 --> 00:20:35.920 right with very tight skin, and they also have a 377 00:20:35.960 --> 00:20:38.680 layer blogger, So that should be the ideal shape that 378 00:20:38.759 --> 00:20:42.799 all these animals should sort of converge doors. So still 379 00:20:42.960 --> 00:20:45.279 is sort of trying to get into that direction. It 380 00:20:45.359 --> 00:20:49.680 hasn't quite gotten there yet. They're not blobbery, they're not yellowy, 381 00:20:49.920 --> 00:20:54.599 they're not wiggling. They're sort of tight tight skin, so 382 00:20:54.640 --> 00:20:57.200 it's like you putting yourself. 383 00:20:56.799 --> 00:20:57.960 On a wetsuit. 384 00:20:58.200 --> 00:21:01.079 Why is Louis comparing them to dolphin like dolphins or 385 00:21:01.119 --> 00:21:04.240 the cheerleader stepsister and pinnipeds are a girl in a 386 00:21:04.279 --> 00:21:08.960 teen rom com who is beautiful but just still wearing glasses. Well, cetaceans, 387 00:21:09.000 --> 00:21:12.039 he says, have just had more time evolving in the 388 00:21:12.039 --> 00:21:16.519 water now. Pinnipeds, despite being shaped like the world's most 389 00:21:16.599 --> 00:21:20.000 ambitious blunt and having feet that look like tube socks 390 00:21:20.000 --> 00:21:23.160 are falling off, they still kill it in the face area, 391 00:21:23.759 --> 00:21:30.440 and they're huge, beautiful blinking eyes with eyelashes. Is there 392 00:21:30.480 --> 00:21:35.680 a reason that they are so cute? What evolutionary purpose 393 00:21:35.759 --> 00:21:38.519 do those serve other than being adorable? 394 00:21:38.720 --> 00:21:42.359 So humans somehow are tuned to find things that have 395 00:21:42.440 --> 00:21:46.480 big eyes as adorable, but that's notssarily the case. That's 396 00:21:46.480 --> 00:21:49.599 not the reason why their eyes are so big. So 397 00:21:49.640 --> 00:21:52.240 if you think about when these animals are eating, when 398 00:21:52.240 --> 00:21:55.880 they're finding prey, they're doing this in the depotion and 399 00:21:55.920 --> 00:21:59.519 there's virtually no light in the depotion. So you going 400 00:21:59.519 --> 00:22:03.359 to Maine magicians of finding food, especially if you're trying 401 00:22:03.400 --> 00:22:05.960