WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.200 --> 00:00:04.759 Not an ideal situation when the dog catches the car 2 00:00:05.360 --> 00:00:07.719 and then the dog has no idea what to do. 3 00:00:08.039 --> 00:00:10.000 And that is the reason why we need. 4 00:00:09.880 --> 00:00:12.679 To make sure that when we overtake the majority, that 5 00:00:12.759 --> 00:00:15.080 we actually have a plan. I've talked a lot Harry 6 00:00:15.119 --> 00:00:19.039 Katy fan News about how if you don't immediately from 7 00:00:19.280 --> 00:00:24.800 day one, have an actual plan to be implemented, to 8 00:00:25.120 --> 00:00:28.559 enforce and to pursue accountability for all of the wrongdoings 9 00:00:28.559 --> 00:00:30.559 that have been perpetrated for the last two years under 10 00:00:30.559 --> 00:00:33.679 this Trump regime, that I'm not interested in hearing about 11 00:00:33.799 --> 00:00:36.679 the rest of your campaign. I'm not interested in hearing 12 00:00:36.719 --> 00:00:40.320 about the rest of your policies. There is the demand 13 00:00:40.920 --> 00:00:44.399 for true accountability and that can't just be through lip service. 14 00:00:44.799 --> 00:00:48.119 That can't just be through angry rantings on places like YouTube. 15 00:00:48.399 --> 00:00:53.520 You actually have to have a blueprint for action. Which 16 00:00:53.520 --> 00:00:55.119 is when I had the chance to be able to 17 00:00:55.159 --> 00:00:58.719 read my good friend Brian Tyler Cohen's new book the 18 00:00:58.799 --> 00:01:01.439 day after, How to Wheel Power in a Post Trump World. 19 00:01:01.840 --> 00:01:05.959 I was happy to see that there was an actual 20 00:01:06.319 --> 00:01:11.799 thoughtful analysis that goes into what we got to do. 21 00:01:13.319 --> 00:01:16.719 Because what Brian's book does is it tackles a number 22 00:01:16.760 --> 00:01:22.000 of things incredibly well. It tackles the historical framework within 23 00:01:22.040 --> 00:01:25.719 which we are finding ourselves today. We have so much 24 00:01:25.760 --> 00:01:30.200 to learn from history, especially when we see how well 25 00:01:30.239 --> 00:01:36.000 the Republicans have destroyed and dismantled norms and institutions as 26 00:01:36.040 --> 00:01:39.159 they have built their own power up to a fever pitch, 27 00:01:40.319 --> 00:01:42.640 all the while the Democrats are just standing there wringing 28 00:01:42.680 --> 00:01:46.560 their hands. And look, this is not me casting aspersions 29 00:01:46.560 --> 00:01:48.760 on the entirety of the party, but let's be honest 30 00:01:49.400 --> 00:01:53.480 in the pursuit of being the good guys. I think 31 00:01:53.480 --> 00:01:59.319 we've and gals, I think we've lost the plot as Democrats. 32 00:01:59.840 --> 00:02:02.319 So Brian's book looks and has kind of this is 33 00:02:02.359 --> 00:02:04.400 the historical framework of what the hell happened to get 34 00:02:04.480 --> 00:02:10.479 us here? But more importantly, and unlike other books, Brian says, Okay, 35 00:02:11.000 --> 00:02:13.000 now we're here, what do we do the day after 36 00:02:13.080 --> 00:02:19.080 Trump is gone? And that's why his book is essential reading. 37 00:02:19.360 --> 00:02:21.759 I wanted to make sure that we explored those themes. 38 00:02:22.120 --> 00:02:23.919 I also wanted to make sure, now that we're a 39 00:02:23.960 --> 00:02:26.960 couple of days out of some pretty wild primary results, 40 00:02:27.520 --> 00:02:32.800 that we have a blunt conversation about what it looks 41 00:02:32.879 --> 00:02:40.800 like going into the November general election, and so buckle 42 00:02:40.879 --> 00:02:44.639 up because it's a it's a pretty compelling conversation with 43 00:02:44.719 --> 00:02:47.759 Brian Tyler Cohen. Joining me now is Brian Tyler Cohen, 44 00:02:47.879 --> 00:02:52.840 a progressive YouTuber, but more importantly, the author of the 45 00:02:53.039 --> 00:02:56.360 amazing book The Day After, How to Wield Power in 46 00:02:56.439 --> 00:02:59.560 a Post Trump World. This is coming on the heels 47 00:02:59.560 --> 00:03:03.280 of another best selling book. Brian Tyler Cohen, thanks for. 48 00:03:03.240 --> 00:03:07.560 Being here, Katie, Thanks for having me. I'm not saying 49 00:03:07.560 --> 00:03:09.599 this jokingly. I'm not sure where you find the time 50 00:03:10.000 --> 00:03:11.240 to write a. 51 00:03:11.159 --> 00:03:14.639 Book let alone do It's amazing what you can accomplish 52 00:03:14.680 --> 00:03:16.639 when you're willing to sacrifice all of your mental health. 53 00:03:16.719 --> 00:03:19.199 So well, I was going to say, sign me up. 54 00:03:19.360 --> 00:03:21.560 That's what we do on the daily folks. 55 00:03:21.560 --> 00:03:23.800 I was just with Brian at an event in DC 56 00:03:24.080 --> 00:03:26.800 with a whole bunch of super like minded pro democracy folks. 57 00:03:27.639 --> 00:03:29.840 That's why I was kind of not jokingly saying, I'm 58 00:03:29.840 --> 00:03:31.400 not quite sure I has the time because we were 59 00:03:31.439 --> 00:03:33.319 doing that and now he does all of the important 60 00:03:33.319 --> 00:03:36.639 work that he does on YouTube. You don't actually want 61 00:03:36.639 --> 00:03:43.039 to start with the label progressive YouTuber because I've kind 62 00:03:43.080 --> 00:03:45.719 of been trying to deal with labels lately the last 63 00:03:46.039 --> 00:03:48.280 few weeks, and I kind of feel like it's a 64 00:03:48.319 --> 00:03:50.360 great segue into your book eventually that we're going to 65 00:03:50.439 --> 00:03:54.080 get to. But you know, I've kind of been trying 66 00:03:54.080 --> 00:03:56.759 to see if we stay with labels, we don't stay 67 00:03:56.759 --> 00:03:59.199 with labels. I feel like labels sometimes add a little 68 00:03:59.199 --> 00:04:01.319 bit of baggage. I've been saying we should look at 69 00:04:01.319 --> 00:04:04.439 the candidates, what their policies, positions are, what they're standing for, 70 00:04:04.759 --> 00:04:07.120 and really like, are they putting their money where their 71 00:04:07.120 --> 00:04:08.680 mouth is, because a lot of people talk a lot, 72 00:04:08.759 --> 00:04:11.159 but they don't actually do something about it. Kind of 73 00:04:11.240 --> 00:04:14.719 your thoughts on where things stand right now post primaries 74 00:04:15.400 --> 00:04:16.680 and as we kind of get a lay of the 75 00:04:16.759 --> 00:04:17.759 land for November. 76 00:04:17.959 --> 00:04:19.879 No, I think I think that's such a good point, 77 00:04:20.000 --> 00:04:23.079 And you're right. I think that labels do kind of 78 00:04:23.120 --> 00:04:25.319 carry along with them some degree of baggage that I 79 00:04:25.319 --> 00:04:30.560 think is neither helpful nor really instructive of where candidates lie. 80 00:04:30.639 --> 00:04:34.959 I mean, look, there are there is Zornmandani in New 81 00:04:35.040 --> 00:04:38.519 York who has a platform that is virtually indistinguishable from 82 00:04:38.600 --> 00:04:41.680 a bunch of other Democrats, regular Democrats, progressive Democrats who 83 00:04:41.680 --> 00:04:44.360 are advocating for the same thing we're advocating for a 84 00:04:44.399 --> 00:04:47.279 lower cost of living, who are advocating for permit reform, 85 00:04:47.319 --> 00:04:50.720 and so, you know, I think you're right that getting 86 00:04:50.759 --> 00:04:55.959 stuck in focusing on what certain labels mean, especially as 87 00:04:56.000 --> 00:04:58.759 we are in a post primary world now heading toward 88 00:04:58.800 --> 00:05:03.439 the general probably does add an unnecessary degree of baggage. 89 00:05:03.600 --> 00:05:06.360 I think as long as the candidates espouse certain positions, 90 00:05:06.399 --> 00:05:08.959 that's how they should be, That's how they should be 91 00:05:09.040 --> 00:05:11.519 kind of identified. And I feel like that's going to 92 00:05:11.560 --> 00:05:15.240 be where things move now that the primaries are behind 93 00:05:15.319 --> 00:05:18.959 us and there's less of a focus on, like you know, 94 00:05:19.439 --> 00:05:23.680 intra party disputes and where people land on that ideological spectrum. 95 00:05:24.360 --> 00:05:27.399 Look, I didn't relish the infighting. I think it's unhealthy 96 00:05:27.480 --> 00:05:29.040 and it doesn't help us as a party. But I 97 00:05:29.079 --> 00:05:32.240 will say, in some ways it was the spirit of 98 00:05:32.319 --> 00:05:35.519 a competitive primary, was it not. You have a variety 99 00:05:35.639 --> 00:05:39.519 of candidates, many of whom are not cookie cutter, and 100 00:05:39.560 --> 00:05:41.519 they stand for different things, and then you let the 101 00:05:41.560 --> 00:05:44.399 people pick the one who stands for the most of 102 00:05:44.439 --> 00:05:47.319 what they think is emblematic or representative of who they are, 103 00:05:47.360 --> 00:05:50.199 and that's who advances. I mean, in so many ways, 104 00:05:50.600 --> 00:05:53.480 having a competitive primary with having people that are standing 105 00:05:53.480 --> 00:05:54.319 for different things. 106 00:05:54.720 --> 00:05:57.600 I think kind of is democracy, is it not? It is? 107 00:05:57.879 --> 00:06:01.240 And I have to try and remind myself that every day, because, 108 00:06:01.720 --> 00:06:04.839 like you, I do not enjoy the primary process. I 109 00:06:04.839 --> 00:06:11.279 think the infighting is like borderline intolerable. And I also 110 00:06:11.399 --> 00:06:14.240 know that there comes a point where after the primary happens, 111 00:06:14.680 --> 00:06:17.279 most people are able to say, hey, we've gotten through that, Okay, 112 00:06:17.360 --> 00:06:21.240 let's come together. And you have, you know, Hailey Stevens 113 00:06:21.319 --> 00:06:25.319 endorsing abdulasi ed, you have Angie Craig endorsing Peggy flannagain, 114 00:06:25.360 --> 00:06:26.720 and so it doesn't matter where you lie on the 115 00:06:26.720 --> 00:06:31.120 ideological spectrum. The more moderate candidates are are endorsing the 116 00:06:31.120 --> 00:06:34.519 more progressive candidates and vice versa. But there's always going 117 00:06:34.560 --> 00:06:38.040 to be some sliver of people who harbor resentment because 118 00:06:38.040 --> 00:06:42.519 of how ugly the primary process was. And so knowing 119 00:06:42.560 --> 00:06:46.439 that and having lived through you know, Bernie Hillary, and 120 00:06:46.879 --> 00:06:49.839 seeing how they're still fallout to this day a decade later, 121 00:06:49.920 --> 00:06:53.360 over that I do wish that the primary process was 122 00:06:53.439 --> 00:06:56.879 less acrimonious, But I do have to remind myself like, 123 00:06:56.920 --> 00:07:00.199 this is what democracy looks like. It is messy, It 124 00:07:00.279 --> 00:07:04.360 is at times hostile, but hopefully you've ended up with 125 00:07:04.399 --> 00:07:07.920 the candidate who's the strongest heading into heading into the 126 00:07:07.920 --> 00:07:11.600 general election, and that's just how it goes. But yeah, 127 00:07:11.639 --> 00:07:15.319 I mean, it is constantly coaching myself to be like 128 00:07:15.399 --> 00:07:19.240 this is it's normal, this is okay. It always happens 129 00:07:19.279 --> 00:07:22.639 like this, and hopefully it leads to the better candidate 130 00:07:22.680 --> 00:07:23.319 actually winning. 131 00:07:24.160 --> 00:07:27.079 Which is why this is actually the perfect timing to 132 00:07:27.120 --> 00:07:30.319 be able to lean into your book, because what I 133 00:07:30.319 --> 00:07:33.360 particularly love about the Day After is it's I think 134 00:07:33.399 --> 00:07:37.720 an incredible balance of doing a post mortem because I 135 00:07:37.759 --> 00:07:41.639 am a huge, huge advocate of making sure that we 136 00:07:41.759 --> 00:07:45.720 got check ourselves with historical references and understanding how we 137 00:07:45.800 --> 00:07:46.680 got where we are. 138 00:07:46.560 --> 00:07:48.439 Today, which your book does. 139 00:07:48.519 --> 00:07:52.560 Your book does an incredibly brutal, brutal, honest assessment of 140 00:07:53.000 --> 00:07:54.480 what has happened in the time. 141 00:07:54.319 --> 00:07:55.399 Leading up to where we are. 142 00:07:55.800 --> 00:07:57.480 But then the great thing about your book is it's 143 00:07:57.519 --> 00:08:00.759 the standalone in that it actually provides a blueprint and 144 00:08:00.759 --> 00:08:02.920 it gives suggestions and ideas of what we do the 145 00:08:03.000 --> 00:08:07.000 day after we finally have a majority, the day after 146 00:08:07.079 --> 00:08:09.279 we're back controlling the levers of power. 147 00:08:09.839 --> 00:08:11.759 You know, as I mentioned a few minutes ago. 148 00:08:11.839 --> 00:08:15.240 A lot of people like to actually complain and talk, 149 00:08:15.279 --> 00:08:18.240 but they don't do anything. Your book the day after says, 150 00:08:19.279 --> 00:08:21.680 not only do we have to do something, but we 151 00:08:21.720 --> 00:08:24.959 can't just be complacent and lazy and say, oh, we'll 152 00:08:25.040 --> 00:08:26.639 just go back to what we had before when we 153 00:08:26.680 --> 00:08:30.120 had a majority pre Trump. 154 00:08:30.120 --> 00:08:32.440 And just you know, do it, but tweak it. 155 00:08:32.840 --> 00:08:35.559 You like me, are an advocate to say, uh huh, 156 00:08:35.600 --> 00:08:38.720 we actually have to not rebuild something. We have to 157 00:08:38.720 --> 00:08:41.240 start from scratch, like we have to learn from the 158 00:08:41.320 --> 00:08:44.759 errors of the past, get our shit together, and figure 159 00:08:44.799 --> 00:08:47.399 out that we have to build something brand new that 160 00:08:47.559 --> 00:08:51.320 is strong enough to withstand, which I think is going 161 00:08:51.399 --> 00:08:53.519 to be another wave of trump Ism, just in a 162 00:08:53.519 --> 00:08:56.240 different form from another person one hundred percent. 163 00:08:56.279 --> 00:08:59.480 I mean, look, I think that this is existential for 164 00:08:59.600 --> 00:09:02.600 any democracy movement in this country because we already know, 165 00:09:03.039 --> 00:09:06.440 as you've said, what the MAGA movement looks like. It's 166 00:09:06.480 --> 00:09:08.559 not We're not going to have some epiphany in the 167 00:09:08.600 --> 00:09:12.519 aftermath of the end of Trump. These people aren't going 168 00:09:12.559 --> 00:09:14.440 to wake up and say, I don't know what happened 169 00:09:14.480 --> 00:09:17.440 the last ten years like this, this is the trajectory 170 00:09:17.440 --> 00:09:20.240 of this party. These are people who are anti democratic, 171 00:09:20.279 --> 00:09:23.519 small D democratic and big D democratic, and they're not 172 00:09:23.600 --> 00:09:25.440 just going to wake up one day and say, like, 173 00:09:25.600 --> 00:09:28.600 you know what, actually I changed, I changed, Yeah, I've 174 00:09:28.679 --> 00:09:30.879 changed my mind. Actually, I do think that Democrats have 175 00:09:30.919 --> 00:09:33.320 the right to get elected in this country. It's going 176 00:09:33.399 --> 00:09:37.039 to get increasingly more difficult for them to accept election 177 00:09:37.120 --> 00:09:42.720 results where they lose, for them to acknowledge the right 178 00:09:42.879 --> 00:09:45.200 of both parties to be able to play by the 179 00:09:45.240 --> 00:09:48.279 same set of rules. And so if we don't start 180 00:09:48.320 --> 00:09:50.720 to change things, if we don't rebuild these systems to 181 00:09:50.720 --> 00:09:55.039 actually contend with what the opposition looks like right now, 182 00:09:55.120 --> 00:09:57.519 and that is an opposition that will abuse any levers 183 00:09:57.519 --> 00:09:59.200 of power if they can get their hands on them, 184 00:09:59.399 --> 00:10:02.759 then we're to repeat the same problems that we're dealing 185 00:10:02.799 --> 00:10:04.759 with right now. I think a good microcosm for that 186 00:10:04.879 --> 00:10:08.960 is like our justice system. I mean, you know, look, 187 00:10:09.000 --> 00:10:12.279 there is nobody, there is nobody who knows better about 188 00:10:12.320 --> 00:10:15.080 the failures of our justice system than you, as you 189 00:10:15.120 --> 00:10:21.080 have become you know, the the authority on the failures 190 00:10:21.200 --> 00:10:25.879 of this government to really properly navigate the Epstein situation, 191 00:10:26.360 --> 00:10:28.639 Like this is not a justice system or a judicial 192 00:10:28.679 --> 00:10:31.600 system that is that is properly equipped to be able 193 00:10:31.639 --> 00:10:35.559 to hold the Trump administration to account for suppressing these files. 194 00:10:35.720 --> 00:10:38.799 It's not a justice system that's equipped to hold these 195 00:10:38.799 --> 00:10:41.840 people to account for what they've actually done, the co 196 00:10:41.840 --> 00:10:46.440 conspirators for the pedophile ring itself. I mean, you have 197 00:10:46.480 --> 00:10:49.519 been You've been doing stellar reporting. Thank God for you, 198 00:10:49.559 --> 00:10:51.720 because otherwise we wouldn't be in a situation where we're 199 00:10:51.759 --> 00:10:54.960 going to have any transparency as relates to the outstanding 200 00:10:55.039 --> 00:10:58.320 three million files. So, but we're just not equipped right 201 00:10:58.360 --> 00:11:00.519 now to be able to do this. And the fact 202 00:11:00.559 --> 00:11:02.919 that we needed you from the outside to be able 203 00:11:02.960 --> 00:11:05.320 to put enough leverage on the dj to actually get 204 00:11:05.320 --> 00:11:07.519 these people in court to have to answer for what 205 00:11:07.559 --> 00:11:11.320 they're doing right now, I think is yes, a huge 206 00:11:11.320 --> 00:11:14.399 testament to the importance of independent media and somebody like you. 207 00:11:14.679 --> 00:11:16.440 But really, at the same time, it's a it's a 208 00:11:16.480 --> 00:11:20.639 condemnation of our of our of our system as a 209 00:11:20.639 --> 00:11:23.600 whole that it takes this to actually get to this 210 00:11:23.720 --> 00:11:26.639 point where the Attorney General has to follow the plain 211 00:11:26.679 --> 00:11:27.440 text of the law. 212 00:11:28.720 --> 00:11:31.840 Well, and that's another big aspect of your book, which 213 00:11:31.960 --> 00:11:37.360 is I'm unabashedly and I'll use this adjective mackia Vellen 214 00:11:37.759 --> 00:11:41.200 sometimes about the need to be back in a seat 215 00:11:41.240 --> 00:11:43.240 of power, because you can't affect the change that you 216 00:11:43.320 --> 00:11:44.840 want until you're actually there. 217 00:11:45.639 --> 00:11:48.080 And I'm not ruthless. 218 00:11:48.120 --> 00:11:49.919 I mean, I still have morals and I still have 219 00:11:50.240 --> 00:11:52.639 a compass about it, Brian. But one of the things 220 00:11:52.639 --> 00:11:56.200 that you acknowledge is it's been a fatal flaw for 221 00:11:56.360 --> 00:12:00.480 many a campaign. Thus far as a Democrat, we have 222 00:12:00.679 --> 00:12:07.919 been way too nice about things. I think that we 223 00:12:08.080 --> 00:12:14.399 have been way too holier than now about not being 224 00:12:14.480 --> 00:12:17.480 willing to fight. And I do think that is part 225 00:12:17.519 --> 00:12:20.879 of why you have seen a surge and support for 226 00:12:21.320 --> 00:12:25.039 the quote more progressive side of our party, that part 227 00:12:25.080 --> 00:12:30.440 of our big tent, because they have been just so 228 00:12:30.759 --> 00:12:35.360 overtly like in our faces in a good way. I'm 229 00:12:35.399 --> 00:12:37.519 not sure that it's a fucking radical to say that 230 00:12:37.559 --> 00:12:39.440 my kids should have health care and I should be 231 00:12:39.440 --> 00:12:42.080 able to afford basic necessities, Like why is it so radical? 232 00:12:42.120 --> 00:12:44.360 Because it's not. And I do think we've kind of. 233 00:12:44.279 --> 00:12:46.960 Tried to shame that part of our party for being 234 00:12:47.000 --> 00:12:49.600 so outspoken about it, and yet that's kind of what 235 00:12:49.639 --> 00:12:51.519 we need to be doing. We need to be acknowledging 236 00:12:51.559 --> 00:12:53.440 that we should not be okay with crumbs, like we 237 00:12:53.480 --> 00:12:55.120 deserve the whole pie. 238 00:12:54.799 --> 00:12:58.320 Right and look, they're mad, and rightfully so they should be. 239 00:12:58.519 --> 00:13:01.000 And I think in large part the reason that the 240 00:13:01.039 --> 00:13:04.559 progressive flank of the party is acendant right now is is, 241 00:13:04.600 --> 00:13:07.919 I mean, there's multiple reasons. One you have the more 242 00:13:08.879 --> 00:13:12.440 like the liberal Democrats who don't even offer a bridge 243 00:13:12.440 --> 00:13:15.360 to the next generation. These people stay in their seats forever. 244 00:13:15.480 --> 00:13:18.240 I mean, we have people into their seventies and eighties, 245 00:13:18.279 --> 00:13:20.120 and there's people in office that are in the sh 246 00:13:20.159 --> 00:13:21.200 of their nineties right now. 247 00:13:21.279 --> 00:13:23.120 Just see Chuck Chuck Well, he's not one of but 248 00:13:23.240 --> 00:13:26.440 Chuck Grassley just filed for his seat again. That guy 249 00:13:26.480 --> 00:13:28.399 is going to be like freaking ninety seven or some 250 00:13:28.480 --> 00:13:30.639 copper like that. By the time the dude's done. It's crazy. 251 00:13:30.879 --> 00:13:32.679 And the sad part is like, we don't even have 252 00:13:32.759 --> 00:13:34.519 a leg to stand on when it comes to condemning 253 00:13:34.559 --> 00:13:36.919 that kind of stuff, because we've had Ruth Vader Ginsburg 254 00:13:36.960 --> 00:13:40.080 die in office. We had Joe Biden obviously very old 255 00:13:40.080 --> 00:13:41.399 when he was an offit to the point where he 256 00:13:41.440 --> 00:13:43.679 wasn't able to prosecute the case when he was in 257 00:13:43.720 --> 00:13:47.000 that disastrous debate two summers ago, and so you know 258 00:13:47.039 --> 00:13:49.120 this is this is a problem, certainly on both sides 259 00:13:49.159 --> 00:13:51.039 of the island. I'm the last person that's ever gonna 260 00:13:51.279 --> 00:13:54.240 lean on the both sides excuse, but I do think 261 00:13:54.320 --> 00:13:57.000 it's a problem. And and you know, you do have 262 00:13:57.120 --> 00:14:00.360 a large faction of the base for whom this idea 263 00:14:00.399 --> 00:14:03.000 of politics as usual, which is espoused by these people 264 00:14:03.000 --> 00:14:07.080 who have been in Washington forever, is just not garnering 265 00:14:07.200 --> 00:14:10.120 enough results. And I think that we do need to 266 00:14:10.120 --> 00:14:12.000 abridge the next generation, and we need to bridge the 267 00:14:12.000 --> 00:14:14.639 next generation that's actually going to recognize the opponent that 268 00:14:14.679 --> 00:14:17.919 we're contenting with. These are not people that we can say, 269 00:14:18.600 --> 00:14:20.399 let's just confer a little bit of goodwill to the 270 00:14:20.440 --> 00:14:23.919 other side and surely, surely they'll reciprocate, because they don't. 271 00:14:24.120 --> 00:14:26.279 And we've been trying this game over and over and 272 00:14:26.320 --> 00:14:30.679 over again and they never reciprocate. And and I just 273 00:14:30.720 --> 00:14:33.840 want to like bring into office people who recognize that 274 00:14:33.879 --> 00:14:36.519 this is not the Republican party our of our parents 275 00:14:36.600 --> 00:14:38.039 or whatever it is they like to say, this is 276 00:14:38.080 --> 00:14:40.840 a republican party that again, to repeat myself from the beginning, 277 00:14:41.120 --> 00:14:44.120 does not think Democrats have the right to exist does 278 00:14:44.159 --> 00:14:46.440 not think that Democrats have the right to get elected. 279 00:14:46.679 --> 00:14:49.120 And so if we don't start treating this government like that, 280 00:14:49.440 --> 00:14:52.200 we're we are going to good government ourselves into obscurity. 281 00:14:53.519 --> 00:14:55.200 You know. I love what you just said, that we're 282 00:14:55.240 --> 00:14:58.559 going to good government ourselves into ourselves into obscurity, because 283 00:14:58.799 --> 00:15:02.759 I think that we like to give ourselves sometimes as Democrats, 284 00:15:02.759 --> 00:15:05.399 like self congratutory paths on the back for being so much, 285 00:15:05.480 --> 00:15:08.399 you know, better and more noble about things. But I 286 00:15:08.399 --> 00:15:10.919 think we now have a very different definition of what 287 00:15:10.960 --> 00:15:13.960 that means, right, because again, I don't have to be 288 00:15:14.000 --> 00:15:18.120 apologetic for wanting the basics and then wanting more, because 289 00:15:18.120 --> 00:15:20.039 that's kind of what this country was built on, the 290 00:15:20.080 --> 00:15:23.360 idea of me being able to have a dream, but 291 00:15:23.399 --> 00:15:26.159 to be able to actually have the basics to get there, right, 292 00:15:26.240 --> 00:15:29.279 And I feel like we've just kind of what is 293 00:15:29.320 --> 00:15:31.840 it just this is kind of like half jokingly not really. 294 00:15:32.639 --> 00:15:34.360 I was in Paris right and I was having like 295 00:15:34.399 --> 00:15:38.919 a work vacation and people were jokingly saying Parisians are like, oh, 296 00:15:38.960 --> 00:15:41.399 we're French, you know, we we we like to suffer. 297 00:15:42.320 --> 00:15:44.440 But it's like, holy shit, I feel like the Democrat 298 00:15:44.639 --> 00:15:46.879 like we like to suffer because we're Democrats, Like, no, 299 00:15:46.919 --> 00:15:48.080 I don't want to fucking suffer. 300 00:15:48.240 --> 00:15:49.320 I want to thrive. 301 00:15:49.720 --> 00:15:53.080 Like what is so hard to understand about that concept? 302 00:15:53.559 --> 00:15:56.320 And I think that that like you you you hit 303 00:15:56.360 --> 00:15:59.759 your your your finger right on it, which is there 304 00:15:59.879 --> 00:16:03.240 is a sense that we will always get just to 305 00:16:03.279 --> 00:16:05.840 the five yard line and then fail, Like there's a 306 00:16:05.879 --> 00:16:08.519 sense that that there's always going to be something that 307 00:16:08.600 --> 00:16:11.320 comes up the works, whether it's the parliamentarian or some 308 00:16:11.480 --> 00:16:15.320 norm or some institution or Kirsten Cinema or Joe Manchin, 309 00:16:15.399 --> 00:16:19.679 there's always one person who screws everything up. And we've 310 00:16:19.679 --> 00:16:21.600 gotten to the point where it almost feels like it's 311 00:16:21.639 --> 00:16:24.159 good enough that we got caught trying, that we had 312 00:16:24.200 --> 00:16:27.399 some symbolic victory in that if only we you know, 313 00:16:27.440 --> 00:16:29.960 like if only Kirsten Cinema wasn't there, if only Joe 314 00:16:30.039 --> 00:16:32.519 Mansion wasn't there, we would have gotten everything. But there's 315 00:16:32.559 --> 00:16:35.200 always one person to stop things. And I think people 316 00:16:35.200 --> 00:16:37.279 are just so tired of that. And in large part 317 00:16:37.320 --> 00:16:39.960 the reason that they're tired of that is because Trump 318 00:16:39.960 --> 00:16:43.200 has shown that none of our institutions are sacker sanct 319 00:16:43.360 --> 00:16:45.799 like when he wants to do something, he just gets 320 00:16:45.799 --> 00:16:48.360 it done. He doesn't care what the constitution says. He 321 00:16:48.360 --> 00:16:50.080 doesn't care what prosecutor say. It doesn't care what the 322 00:16:50.120 --> 00:16:52.919 court say, what judges say, what other members of Congress 323 00:16:53.000 --> 00:16:55.840 or Senate or other full branches of government says. He 324 00:16:55.960 --> 00:16:59.600 just does it. And so it shows that like where 325 00:16:59.639 --> 00:17:02.879 there is a will in politics, there's a way. And 326 00:17:04.400 --> 00:17:06.319 my argument in this book is that we have to 327 00:17:06.359 --> 00:17:09.440 have that same degree of ruthlessness, but you can do 328 00:17:09.519 --> 00:17:11.720 it for virtuous reasons. Not to enrich yourself to the 329 00:17:11.720 --> 00:17:15.319 tune of three hundred percent, not to keep billions of 330 00:17:15.359 --> 00:17:18.440 dollars in military defense contracts onto your kids, not to 331 00:17:18.599 --> 00:17:21.480 sell crypto coins or open real estate deals in foreign countries, 332 00:17:21.480 --> 00:17:23.920 but just to pass healthcare, like just to make sure 333 00:17:23.960 --> 00:17:26.720 we get climate change, just to expand voting rights, just 334 00:17:26.720 --> 00:17:29.079 to raise the minimum wage. If Trump can do all 335 00:17:29.119 --> 00:17:32.880 of these things to keep ungodly sums of money into 336 00:17:32.880 --> 00:17:36.200 his own pockets, surely democrats can do it when they're 337 00:17:36.200 --> 00:17:38.519 in control, so that we can raise the minimum wage 338 00:17:38.519 --> 00:17:40.680 from seven dollars and twenty five cents an hour to 339 00:17:40.799 --> 00:17:42.920 something livable in this country. 340 00:17:43.599 --> 00:17:46.799 Well, and then that is that therein lies the rub right, 341 00:17:47.000 --> 00:17:49.640 because you don't want to lose your soul. We can't 342 00:17:49.680 --> 00:17:53.759 lose our souls in pursuit of this. But as long 343 00:17:53.799 --> 00:17:54.720 as you're doing. 344 00:17:54.440 --> 00:17:57.319 It for the right reasons, I'm okay with it. 345 00:17:57.400 --> 00:17:59.960 Right and so that is the reason why I believe, 346 00:18:01.000 --> 00:18:04.119 and I want to ask you, I mean, so is 347 00:18:04.160 --> 00:18:09.640 the premise of your book the idea of not even 348 00:18:09.680 --> 00:18:11.559 I can't. I hate using the word rebuild because it 349 00:18:11.559 --> 00:18:13.839 makes us feel like we're looking at the old foundations, 350 00:18:13.839 --> 00:18:16.000 because we're not. I mean, your book is very clear 351 00:18:16.079 --> 00:18:19.559 like whatever we've been doing before doesn't work. We've seen 352 00:18:19.599 --> 00:18:22.079 it doesn't work. We have empirical evidence historically we need 353 00:18:22.119 --> 00:18:26.319 to change the rules of engagement. Here is that success 354 00:18:26.400 --> 00:18:30.759 though the day after and moving forward conditioned upon making 355 00:18:30.799 --> 00:18:33.319 sure that we have the right people in place to 356 00:18:33.400 --> 00:18:35.559 do that. And I'm not talking just in Congress. I'm 357 00:18:35.559 --> 00:18:38.880 talking in other kind of industry spaces and other sectors. 358 00:18:39.880 --> 00:18:43.000 So having the right people in place. Look, we're going 359 00:18:43.039 --> 00:18:45.240 to have to contend with both. There are going to 360 00:18:45.279 --> 00:18:49.799 be institutionalists and establishment types who are perfectly content with 361 00:18:49.839 --> 00:18:53.599 the status quo in positions of power where we need 362 00:18:53.640 --> 00:18:57.440 them to be movable and flexible so that we can 363 00:18:57.519 --> 00:18:59.279 kind of achieve some of the change that we're looking 364 00:18:59.319 --> 00:19:02.240 to see. My goal with the book is is twofold. 365 00:19:03.079 --> 00:19:06.319 It's of course, to advocate for a new generation of 366 00:19:06.359 --> 00:19:11.400 people who are actually going to really embody this fight 367 00:19:11.440 --> 00:19:13.160 that I want to see on the left or in 368 00:19:13.160 --> 00:19:15.839 this pro democracy space, but at a bare minimum, knowing 369 00:19:15.920 --> 00:19:17.279 that we're going to have a lot of folks who 370 00:19:17.359 --> 00:19:19.200 are already in power right now and by the way, 371 00:19:19.200 --> 00:19:22.559 benefiting from the systems remaining as they are, is at 372 00:19:22.640 --> 00:19:24.720 least to push them to let them know what we 373 00:19:24.839 --> 00:19:29.000 expect as the base. And look, I have I think 374 00:19:29.039 --> 00:19:31.359 a distinct advantage in this space because I talk to 375 00:19:31.440 --> 00:19:33.599 a lot of these people over the course of the 376 00:19:33.680 --> 00:19:36.519 last few years in these interviews, and so you know, 377 00:19:36.759 --> 00:19:40.319 I might not be viewed as as radically as some 378 00:19:40.359 --> 00:19:43.279 of these elected officials view other folks that they talk to. 379 00:19:43.519 --> 00:19:45.400 And so if I can be a trusted messenger for 380 00:19:45.440 --> 00:19:47.839 people and let them know that what we expect is 381 00:19:47.920 --> 00:19:50.960 not the same incrementalism that we've come to expect up 382 00:19:51.039 --> 00:19:53.359 to now, then hopefully I can use some of that 383 00:19:53.400 --> 00:19:56.240 credibility that I've earned with these people to let them 384 00:19:56.240 --> 00:20:00.279 know what a democratic party of tomorrow should look like, 385 00:20:00.400 --> 00:20:02.559 which is to say, a democratic party that is not 386 00:20:02.640 --> 00:20:06.839 going to just rely on institutions or processes or norms 387 00:20:06.880 --> 00:20:10.759 or traditions or god forbid, we push aside the parliamentarian 388 00:20:10.839 --> 00:20:16.920 God forbid, we don't embrace the filibuster like I'm using. 389 00:20:17.079 --> 00:20:19.599 I'm using any street cred that I had gained over 390 00:20:19.599 --> 00:20:22.039 the last few years building relationships with these people to 391 00:20:22.119 --> 00:20:23.720 let them know that what we've been doing up to 392 00:20:23.759 --> 00:20:26.720 now is not going to be acceptable beyond twenty twenty eight. 393 00:20:27.680 --> 00:20:29.920 Well, and that's the reason why you are a trusted voice, 394 00:20:30.039 --> 00:20:33.960 not only in independent media but also in other you know, spaces. 395 00:20:33.759 --> 00:20:37.400 It's important for us to know how to walk in 396 00:20:37.480 --> 00:20:41.039 all these worlds. And you know the thing that makes 397 00:20:41.039 --> 00:20:42.480 me happy though, it sounds like there might be a 398 00:20:42.480 --> 00:20:44.720 place for an old lady like me in your day 399 00:20:44.759 --> 00:20:46.079 after Brian Tyler Cohen. 400 00:20:46.119 --> 00:20:48.599 So I'm grateful for this. Listen, my friend, I don't think. 401 00:20:48.720 --> 00:20:53.000