WEBVTT 1 00:00:03.399 --> 00:00:16.000 You're listening to why we do what we do? Welcome 2 00:00:16.039 --> 00:00:18.559 to why we do what we do? I am your 3 00:00:18.760 --> 00:00:21.920 exploring all conditions, Host Abraham. 4 00:00:21.640 --> 00:00:23.399 And I'm you're isolating those conditions. 5 00:00:23.440 --> 00:00:27.000 Oh, Shane, we are a psychology podcast. We talk about 6 00:00:27.000 --> 00:00:31.120 the things that humans and non human animals do. For 7 00:00:31.199 --> 00:00:33.399 those of you joining us for the very first time, 8 00:00:33.439 --> 00:00:35.719 then that was probably a weird thing the way that 9 00:00:35.759 --> 00:00:38.200 we introduced ourselves, but it will make more sense as 10 00:00:38.240 --> 00:00:40.759 we get into this. We are on the third part 11 00:00:40.799 --> 00:00:44.439 of a multi part series of episodes discussing something that 12 00:00:44.600 --> 00:00:49.000 is deep in the weeds of behavior analysis practice and 13 00:00:49.119 --> 00:00:54.079 literature and sort of understanding called functional analyzes. This is 14 00:00:54.079 --> 00:00:57.560 the third one, and so if you haven't heard the 15 00:00:58.000 --> 00:01:00.799 last couple that we have done, then you recommend checking 16 00:01:00.799 --> 00:01:03.799 those out for some background and conceptual pieces that will 17 00:01:03.840 --> 00:01:06.159 be necessary. But we'll also do our best to recap 18 00:01:06.239 --> 00:01:08.879 those going into this. And if you're a returning person 19 00:01:08.959 --> 00:01:11.519 then welcome back. Then that recap will be because you 20 00:01:11.519 --> 00:01:13.400 haven't heard those at least a week or a couple 21 00:01:13.439 --> 00:01:16.120 of weeks, and you're getting caught up too, and this 22 00:01:16.280 --> 00:01:18.920 way you recall what we're doing as we get into it. 23 00:01:19.040 --> 00:01:22.079 But however you got here, we appreciate it. And if 24 00:01:22.120 --> 00:01:23.719 you do find that you would like to support us 25 00:01:23.760 --> 00:01:26.079 after all of this, then you can do that by 26 00:01:26.159 --> 00:01:29.400 leaving us a rating and a review like subscribe, tell 27 00:01:29.439 --> 00:01:32.560 a friend, join us on Patreon. I'll talk more about 28 00:01:32.560 --> 00:01:35.200 those things at the end of this discussion. But it 29 00:01:35.239 --> 00:01:37.519 is August twelfth, as you may or may not know, 30 00:01:37.680 --> 00:01:39.560 depending on when you're listening to this, it might not 31 00:01:39.680 --> 00:01:43.239 be August twelfth anymore. But when that's publishes, it's August twelfth, 32 00:01:43.239 --> 00:01:47.040 which means, of course, Happy Baseball Fans Day. That's me. 33 00:01:47.400 --> 00:01:50.560 So they they put oscillating fans in the baseball field 34 00:01:50.599 --> 00:01:51.239 and they blow away. 35 00:01:51.319 --> 00:01:54.239 Yeah, yeah, they have like a good windy day depending 36 00:01:54.239 --> 00:01:56.519 on where the wind is blowing. That's a baseball field. 37 00:01:56.640 --> 00:01:59.439 Batters really love the wind blowing out the center field, 38 00:01:59.480 --> 00:01:59.640 you know. 39 00:02:00.319 --> 00:02:01.359 Yeah for sure. 40 00:02:01.599 --> 00:02:04.879 Yeah, pictures not so much. It is ibm PC Day. 41 00:02:05.719 --> 00:02:06.719 That's a lot of initials. 42 00:02:07.040 --> 00:02:07.519 M hm. 43 00:02:07.519 --> 00:02:09.960 It is International Youth Day. 44 00:02:10.599 --> 00:02:13.039 Except when we were younger, we started a band or 45 00:02:13.039 --> 00:02:14.479 we were gonna we were trying to name our band 46 00:02:14.479 --> 00:02:16.319 and we were gonna call it youth in Asia. 47 00:02:16.520 --> 00:02:17.479 Yeah, that is a band. 48 00:02:18.120 --> 00:02:20.719 That is a band and it was we didn't know that, 49 00:02:20.960 --> 00:02:22.840 but at the of your like, we're so clever. It's 50 00:02:22.840 --> 00:02:26.080 a play on words. So here's the International Youth. Yeah. 51 00:02:26.080 --> 00:02:28.120 I thought you're gonna call yourselves international youth. I was like, man, 52 00:02:28.159 --> 00:02:29.439 that would have been quite the coincidence. 53 00:02:30.080 --> 00:02:34.800 Yeah, yeah, I mean close enough. I guess it's Julian Fry, 54 00:02:34.960 --> 00:02:37.439 Julienne Fry's Day, whoever that. 55 00:02:37.479 --> 00:02:45.800 Is, who's frying Julian. It's a middle child day, it is. 56 00:02:46.240 --> 00:02:48.120 It's also National Sewing Machine. 57 00:02:47.840 --> 00:02:53.000 Day Handy Devices. It is truck driver Day. Oh, we 58 00:02:53.039 --> 00:02:56.919 need those people. We do desperately, the bone of the economy. 59 00:02:57.520 --> 00:03:00.199 Uh huh uh huh. It is Vinyl Record Day. 60 00:03:00.000 --> 00:03:04.479 A nice, I dig it. It is World Calligraphy Day. 61 00:03:04.719 --> 00:03:06.360 In case you don't want to read what it is 62 00:03:06.400 --> 00:03:08.240 you're presented with in text form. 63 00:03:09.080 --> 00:03:11.759 Yeah, yeah, for sure. It's World Elevant Day. I love 64 00:03:11.800 --> 00:03:12.319 those things. 65 00:03:12.800 --> 00:03:16.479 Yeah, selfants are amazing. It is Elvis Week. 66 00:03:16.840 --> 00:03:19.960 It is. It is also National Bargain Hunting Week. 67 00:03:20.520 --> 00:03:23.719 Mmmm okay for our thrifty folks out there. It is 68 00:03:24.199 --> 00:03:27.879 National resurrect Romance Week because before this it was. 69 00:03:27.879 --> 00:03:31.159 Dead, yes, and now we get zombie romance. 70 00:03:31.240 --> 00:03:31.560 Nice. 71 00:03:31.599 --> 00:03:34.039 And it is Save plus sound Week. 72 00:03:34.560 --> 00:03:36.080 Did you ever see the movie Warm Bodies. 73 00:03:36.599 --> 00:03:38.919 No, but I heard it was really good. It's Nicholas Holt, right, 74 00:03:39.000 --> 00:03:40.719 like yeah. 75 00:03:40.599 --> 00:03:43.639 Yeah, yeah, and the whole it is zombie romance, so 76 00:03:44.879 --> 00:03:47.319 it was fun. I recommend checking it out. Also, just 77 00:03:47.360 --> 00:03:49.039 know what you're getting into, is you go into a 78 00:03:49.080 --> 00:03:51.599 movie that is a romance with zombies. 79 00:03:51.680 --> 00:03:53.319 So it's very particular. 80 00:03:54.599 --> 00:03:57.719 Yeah yeah, not maybe for all audiences, but I thought 81 00:03:57.759 --> 00:04:00.800 it was very fun, Like it is a adjacent to 82 00:04:02.360 --> 00:04:09.080 horror rom com It's somewhere there. Yeah, genre blending and bending, 83 00:04:09.840 --> 00:04:12.520 that's always fun. Anyway, we're not here to talk about 84 00:04:12.599 --> 00:04:16.279 zombie movies or even necessarily just the holidays. We're talking 85 00:04:16.360 --> 00:04:20.560 about functional analyzes, and just to recap what we've discussed 86 00:04:20.600 --> 00:04:23.879 really quickly so far in case you have never heard 87 00:04:23.920 --> 00:04:26.399 of these and what we're talking about. This is essentially 88 00:04:26.439 --> 00:04:31.480 an assessment strategy very commonly employed by behavior analysts in 89 00:04:31.480 --> 00:04:35.720 which they create some conditions to observe what could be 90 00:04:35.839 --> 00:04:41.959 challenging behaviors, most often with individuals who have limited communication capacity, 91 00:04:42.600 --> 00:04:46.600 and when those individuals have some types of behaviors that 92 00:04:46.639 --> 00:04:49.759 are very challenging that could be harmed to themselves or others. 93 00:04:50.439 --> 00:04:54.720 Or other like related type things. It's like something is severe, 94 00:04:54.879 --> 00:04:57.600 let's say, in the way that they're behaving, and we're 95 00:04:57.600 --> 00:04:59.720 trying to figure out why are they doing this thing 96 00:05:00.319 --> 00:05:03.000 so that we can potentially address how do we get 97 00:05:03.000 --> 00:05:06.680 their needs met without them having to do these destructive 98 00:05:06.720 --> 00:05:07.560 sorts of behaviors. 99 00:05:08.279 --> 00:05:11.079 Yeah, and we also covered you know, as we kind 100 00:05:11.079 --> 00:05:13.160 of are talking about this, we talked about the arrangements 101 00:05:13.360 --> 00:05:15.519 and different variations of these too, because there's lots of 102 00:05:15.560 --> 00:05:17.839 different ways that we do this. So like we set 103 00:05:17.920 --> 00:05:20.600 up these condidencies, we set up the way we these 104 00:05:20.639 --> 00:05:23.279 tests essentially, and then we do them in a lot 105 00:05:23.279 --> 00:05:25.879 of different ways because we really ultimately want to find 106 00:05:25.920 --> 00:05:29.800 out this concern is happening, right, this behavior is happening. 107 00:05:29.959 --> 00:05:33.600 We want to find out a causal relationship, Like that's 108 00:05:33.639 --> 00:05:36.720 the goal. It's not a correlational thing. And we have 109 00:05:36.759 --> 00:05:38.680 to do this in different ways because a there's no 110 00:05:38.759 --> 00:05:40.639 such thing as a one size fits all type of 111 00:05:40.680 --> 00:05:43.519 assessment and so so I think that's really important to 112 00:05:43.519 --> 00:05:47.000 note too, is like there's some unique flexibility inside of 113 00:05:47.079 --> 00:05:52.560 this what could be perceived as a rigorous test type 114 00:05:52.560 --> 00:05:55.160 of assessment. So there's some really cool stuff in there 115 00:05:55.319 --> 00:05:56.160 as far as that goes. 116 00:05:56.879 --> 00:05:58.720 Yeah, we impact a bit of the history of how 117 00:05:58.759 --> 00:06:02.480 this developed, starting before it was actually an experimental sort 118 00:06:02.480 --> 00:06:04.839 of thing, with it being more of a conceptual exercise, 119 00:06:04.839 --> 00:06:06.680 and they called it a functional analysis, and then in 120 00:06:06.759 --> 00:06:10.040 nineteen eighty two the first study where it turned into 121 00:06:10.040 --> 00:06:14.480 an experimental functional analysis. And essentially the idea here is 122 00:06:14.560 --> 00:06:19.079 sometimes compared to an allergy test. It's let's test a 123 00:06:19.079 --> 00:06:22.519 bunch of different situations and see which ones are the 124 00:06:22.519 --> 00:06:25.720 ones where we see that challenging behavior occur, and then 125 00:06:25.720 --> 00:06:29.480 that tells us what is provoking it and what is 126 00:06:29.519 --> 00:06:30.160 maintaining it. 127 00:06:30.240 --> 00:06:32.240 And this is how we figure out you're allergic to math. 128 00:06:33.399 --> 00:06:36.560 Yeah, exactly. That's also funny inside joke because one of 129 00:06:36.600 --> 00:06:39.079 the original studies had to do with how difficult certain 130 00:06:39.160 --> 00:06:43.959 academic tasks were. But anyway, the whole point then is 131 00:06:43.959 --> 00:06:47.720 that once we understand that, we can use that information 132 00:06:47.879 --> 00:06:49.879 to help guide Okay, this is what this person needs 133 00:06:49.879 --> 00:06:52.319 in this situation. Now we can teach them to communicate 134 00:06:52.360 --> 00:06:54.920 what they need rather than do this thing that is 135 00:06:54.959 --> 00:06:58.759 harmful to themselves or others are both, And then where 136 00:06:58.800 --> 00:07:02.439 we went from there is essentially various iterations of people 137 00:07:02.480 --> 00:07:05.480 exploring what works, how do we change this, what can 138 00:07:05.519 --> 00:07:07.079 we make different about it? That sort of thing. 139 00:07:07.480 --> 00:07:09.360 Yeah, and so it kind of led us up to 140 00:07:10.040 --> 00:07:13.240 a little bit of where we are at today, which 141 00:07:13.360 --> 00:07:19.399 is is kind of understanding how the actual assessment works. Right, So, 142 00:07:19.480 --> 00:07:21.879 like we're looking at like we've established these conditions that 143 00:07:21.920 --> 00:07:25.279 we test, we've isolated variables, and here we are kind 144 00:07:25.279 --> 00:07:28.480 of looking at I think that what we've found is 145 00:07:28.519 --> 00:07:33.279 that the isolation piece is kind of a core feature 146 00:07:33.319 --> 00:07:34.800 of this. Like I and when I say isolation, I 147 00:07:34.800 --> 00:07:38.720 mean isolating particular like related variables to whatever the conditions are. Yeah, 148 00:07:38.759 --> 00:07:42.000 we're going to see that across every type of assessment, 149 00:07:42.519 --> 00:07:44.160 but we're at the stage now where we're kind of 150 00:07:44.199 --> 00:07:46.519 like maybe even moving away from that a little bit. 151 00:07:46.720 --> 00:07:48.120 And we'll kind of talk about that today, I think 152 00:07:48.160 --> 00:07:50.519 when we talk about the synthesized types of tests. But 153 00:07:50.879 --> 00:07:52.680 I mean, it's really come such a long way, even 154 00:07:52.680 --> 00:07:55.240 in our years of working in the field, because I 155 00:07:55.279 --> 00:07:57.319 know that when we first started, some of these variations 156 00:07:57.360 --> 00:07:58.079 didn't even exist. 157 00:07:58.879 --> 00:08:02.560 Yeah. Yeah, and so we got into essentially describing what 158 00:08:02.600 --> 00:08:04.720 the conditions are. For the most part, there's a condition 159 00:08:04.759 --> 00:08:07.399 that tests for positive reinforcement, a condition that tests for 160 00:08:07.480 --> 00:08:11.000 negative reinforcement, a condition that tests for self stimulatory or 161 00:08:11.079 --> 00:08:14.600 sensory reinforcement, and then all of that's tested against the 162 00:08:14.639 --> 00:08:17.560 control condition where it should be no motivation to do 163 00:08:17.600 --> 00:08:21.879 these behaviors at all. And then there was latency based fays. 164 00:08:22.199 --> 00:08:25.839 There are trial based defays their natural environments or pop 165 00:08:25.959 --> 00:08:29.160 up or burst contingency fas. An FA, by the way, 166 00:08:29.240 --> 00:08:31.720 stands for functional analysis, in case I hadn't said that already, 167 00:08:32.080 --> 00:08:35.519 and so we'll probably call it sometimes a functional analysis 168 00:08:35.559 --> 00:08:37.759 and sometimes an FA. But that's more or less where 169 00:08:37.799 --> 00:08:39.559 we left off. And that kind of brings us up 170 00:08:39.600 --> 00:08:42.440 to the discussion today, where we're going to start by 171 00:08:42.440 --> 00:08:45.759 getting into another way to sort of arrange these conditions 172 00:08:45.759 --> 00:08:50.320 to test for possible functions, if you will, Yes. 173 00:08:50.440 --> 00:08:52.000 And I'm so excited about this because I think that 174 00:08:52.000 --> 00:08:54.039 they're so I do think this is such a cool 175 00:08:54.080 --> 00:08:59.879 way to discover relationships about behavior, right, Like it's so interesting, 176 00:08:59.879 --> 00:09:02.240 and like I would say, as somebody who has done 177 00:09:02.519 --> 00:09:05.559 several of these, it's so cool to watch. It's cool 178 00:09:05.559 --> 00:09:08.759 to see like some patterns e merge as you're doing 179 00:09:08.799 --> 00:09:09.720 these types of assessments. 180 00:09:09.799 --> 00:09:13.279 You know, yeah, you really can see when you're observing 181 00:09:13.320 --> 00:09:16.480 and participating in conducting these you get to see it 182 00:09:16.559 --> 00:09:18.720 with your own eyes, the sort of differentiation that can 183 00:09:18.720 --> 00:09:22.360 occur between those conditions where it becomes fairly clear, like, look, 184 00:09:22.440 --> 00:09:25.960 this is we're seeing something a pattern emerge. I think, 185 00:09:26.000 --> 00:09:29.279 as you said, a trend. So yeah, all right, perfect, 186 00:09:29.320 --> 00:09:30.720 I think that gets us caught up to where we're 187 00:09:30.759 --> 00:09:33.879 at and so getting into this. Then another way that 188 00:09:34.039 --> 00:09:38.039 they might specifically try and assess and determine what's going 189 00:09:38.080 --> 00:09:41.320 on for a particular individual is a strategy for presenting 190 00:09:41.360 --> 00:09:44.080 these fays where what they want to do is directly 191 00:09:44.120 --> 00:09:48.480 compare just one single condition, one set of variables, or 192 00:09:48.519 --> 00:09:52.240 like one variable basically and then test against that control condition. 193 00:09:52.320 --> 00:09:55.639 This is called a pair wise analysis pai R not 194 00:09:55.759 --> 00:09:59.039 par yeah, pair wise, where you have basically just those 195 00:09:59.039 --> 00:10:01.279 two things that you're looking looking at. And this is 196 00:10:01.320 --> 00:10:06.399 most often implemented historically when a functional analysis was not 197 00:10:06.639 --> 00:10:11.840 yielding very clear outcomes and there was sometimes variability across conditions, 198 00:10:11.840 --> 00:10:15.039 sometimes there was very little behavior occurring across the conditions, 199 00:10:15.320 --> 00:10:17.399 and a way to determine if there was a functional 200 00:10:17.440 --> 00:10:20.879 variable related to the contingency to the outcomes that the 201 00:10:20.919 --> 00:10:23.879 individuals trying to get to is to expose the individual 202 00:10:23.919 --> 00:10:27.960 to that condition only just those variables, and then alternate 203 00:10:28.000 --> 00:10:30.480 that with the control conditions. See like, if in this 204 00:10:30.639 --> 00:10:34.519 one condition that we're repeatedly going to test, alternated with 205 00:10:34.639 --> 00:10:38.039 this control condition where there should be no instances of 206 00:10:38.080 --> 00:10:41.960 this challenging behavior occur, can we there see a differentiation 207 00:10:42.159 --> 00:10:45.559 happen in the pattern where it's clear that it happens 208 00:10:45.559 --> 00:10:47.360 over here and it doesn't happen over there. 209 00:10:47.480 --> 00:10:50.080 Right, And so like this one's really interesting because I 210 00:10:50.120 --> 00:10:52.679 think historically what we see with the other types of 211 00:10:52.799 --> 00:10:56.320 arrangements is it'll go, you know, let's number all the 212 00:10:56.320 --> 00:10:59.559 conditions one, two, three four, right, so it might like 213 00:10:59.600 --> 00:11:01.559 what we kind of set up the test, it'll go 214 00:11:02.159 --> 00:11:05.000 one two one, you know, one two three four one 215 00:11:05.000 --> 00:11:07.080 two three four, and then like we'll kind of alternate 216 00:11:07.120 --> 00:11:09.799 between those. What's interesting about a pair wise is it 217 00:11:09.960 --> 00:11:12.559 to go one two, one two one two for a 218 00:11:12.600 --> 00:11:15.960 few data points, and then we'll test another condition and 219 00:11:16.000 --> 00:11:18.600 go one three, one three, one three with one being 220 00:11:18.679 --> 00:11:20.720 the control and just kind of to see if there's 221 00:11:20.759 --> 00:11:23.879 a trend like isolated instead of having that alternation between 222 00:11:23.919 --> 00:11:25.600 one and two and three and four and kind of 223 00:11:25.639 --> 00:11:27.559 doing that over and over and over again. So like 224 00:11:27.600 --> 00:11:29.639 that's kind of what it might look like in practice. 225 00:11:30.039 --> 00:11:32.200 I mean, unless unless I'm completely off base there, but 226 00:11:32.360 --> 00:11:34.360 it's just to kind of like give people exactly what 227 00:11:34.480 --> 00:11:35.879 I like to me, I think it's important to see 228 00:11:35.879 --> 00:11:36.440 what that looks like. 229 00:11:36.559 --> 00:11:38.200 No, you're exactly right. That was actually a really that 230 00:11:38.279 --> 00:11:40.399 was I think a really nice simplified way to describe 231 00:11:40.440 --> 00:11:43.960 exactly what the pair wise analysis is between like actual 232 00:11:44.039 --> 00:11:55.120 content and ads. We're back. Yeah, So just as you 233 00:11:55.279 --> 00:11:57.919 just said, very well, very well put that, it's basically like, yeah, 234 00:11:58.000 --> 00:12:01.240 let's j just do yeah one maybe being control conditions 235 00:12:01.279 --> 00:12:03.000 and two being the variable and then one two, one, 236 00:12:03.080 --> 00:12:05.360 two and going back and forth between those, and then like, 237 00:12:05.399 --> 00:12:07.600 depending on how that goes, you might then test another one. 238 00:12:07.960 --> 00:12:10.200 And this will be important later when we get to 239 00:12:10.360 --> 00:12:16.720 some further innovations in functional analysis implementation strategy, because that 240 00:12:17.039 --> 00:12:20.799 idea of like let's just test a thing against a 241 00:12:20.879 --> 00:12:24.000 control will come back again later. But yeah, in general, 242 00:12:24.559 --> 00:12:28.720 these were applied after a standard functional analysis had been implemented, 243 00:12:28.759 --> 00:12:30.960 Like they'd tried to just go through the normal procedures, 244 00:12:32.120 --> 00:12:35.120 but it failed to produce any clear outcomes. Like we 245 00:12:35.159 --> 00:12:37.440 were running these conditions, but we don't see a pattern 246 00:12:37.480 --> 00:12:38.919 emerging now. 247 00:12:38.960 --> 00:12:39.320 And if we. 248 00:12:39.399 --> 00:12:42.600 Described in a previous discussion that this could mean this 249 00:12:42.679 --> 00:12:45.240 quote unquote automatic function, and we described that in the 250 00:12:45.320 --> 00:12:48.200 very first episode in the series so far, and not 251 00:12:48.279 --> 00:12:50.679 to dwell on the philosophical issues that might be raised 252 00:12:50.720 --> 00:12:54.320 by calling it quote unquote automatic, but for those of 253 00:12:54.320 --> 00:12:56.200 you who know, you understand, and if not, we did 254 00:12:56.200 --> 00:12:58.720 discuss it a little bit back then. But anyway, it 255 00:12:58.759 --> 00:13:01.480 could also mean that the reason that we don't see 256 00:13:01.480 --> 00:13:04.840 any clear patterns emerge in the functional analysis is because 257 00:13:04.879 --> 00:13:08.720 there was insufficient discriminability, meaning it was just not clear 258 00:13:09.440 --> 00:13:13.440 to the individual in question what the difference was between 259 00:13:13.480 --> 00:13:16.039 the conditions they were supposed to be experiencing. And so 260 00:13:16.279 --> 00:13:20.159 if we simplify the arrangement to just one potentially evocative 261 00:13:20.159 --> 00:13:23.840 condition against that sort of control or neutral condition, that 262 00:13:23.919 --> 00:13:28.840 might help illustrate the possible reinforce or the possible provocative 263 00:13:29.120 --> 00:13:32.919 situation and corresponding outcome that the individual's trying to get. 264 00:13:33.480 --> 00:13:35.360 And it's like for them, it was just like, for 265 00:13:35.399 --> 00:13:37.240 some reason they do this here, and then some reason 266 00:13:37.279 --> 00:13:39.279 they do this here, and they don't really understand what's happening, 267 00:13:39.320 --> 00:13:41.879 because most of the time these are individuals very low 268 00:13:41.960 --> 00:13:44.320 developmentto their language, and so we can't just ask them 269 00:13:44.639 --> 00:13:47.399 or explain to them what's going on. And so it's 270 00:13:47.559 --> 00:13:50.440 simplifying it to just this is one thing, and this 271 00:13:50.519 --> 00:13:53.399 is the sort of neutral nothing should happen thing, and 272 00:13:53.559 --> 00:13:56.720 just make that distinction really clear could help provide the 273 00:13:56.759 --> 00:13:59.240 circumstances under which it does become more clear to the 274 00:13:59.279 --> 00:14:01.919 individual and to the than the clinicians what's going on. 275 00:14:02.480 --> 00:14:05.639 Yeah. Absolutely, So for example, let's say there's a functional 276 00:14:05.639 --> 00:14:09.080 analysis that had variable patterns, and what we mean by 277 00:14:09.120 --> 00:14:11.200 that is like just spiky all over the place, kind 278 00:14:11.200 --> 00:14:12.879 of looking like what a Rechdor scale might look like, 279 00:14:12.960 --> 00:14:14.679 just like bounce it all up some high, some low. 280 00:14:14.840 --> 00:14:18.240 Yeah yeah, yeah, it's wild. So that's variable patterns with 281 00:14:18.320 --> 00:14:21.440 no discernible trends across those conditions. So like you can't 282 00:14:21.440 --> 00:14:23.960 figure out what's happening. It looks like every all the 283 00:14:24.000 --> 00:14:26.399 behaviors is kind of all over the place. The clinician 284 00:14:26.480 --> 00:14:30.559 might try presenting only the very specific attention condition identified 285 00:14:30.559 --> 00:14:33.639 in the interview and alternate that condition with the control 286 00:14:33.799 --> 00:14:36.120 play or neutral condition like we mentioned. So that's the 287 00:14:36.159 --> 00:14:38.759 one two, one two, one two versus one two, one three, 288 00:14:38.840 --> 00:14:40.399 one four, and so on and so forth. And if 289 00:14:40.440 --> 00:14:43.159 there is a clear separation in the data, it might 290 00:14:43.200 --> 00:14:46.200 suggest that the form of attention, or at least one 291 00:14:46.240 --> 00:14:48.919 of the forms of attention that are occurring, or some 292 00:14:49.039 --> 00:14:52.559 variable there is maybe one of the maintaining variables, if 293 00:14:52.639 --> 00:14:55.799 not the maintaining variable. That separation really makes the difference there. 294 00:14:56.159 --> 00:14:58.120 Yeah, just being able to see like, Okay, when we 295 00:14:58.159 --> 00:15:00.320 have just this one, it's clear that we see that 296 00:15:01.080 --> 00:15:04.559 those challenging behaviors existing, but in this other one we don't. 297 00:15:04.559 --> 00:15:07.679 So that helps us then differentiate. Okay, now we see 298 00:15:07.960 --> 00:15:10.519 some kind of pattern we can then use. If the 299 00:15:10.639 --> 00:15:13.960 data do not show clear separation, the clinician might try 300 00:15:13.960 --> 00:15:17.039 a different pair wise condition against that neutral control condition, 301 00:15:17.159 --> 00:15:19.279 just as you were saying before the whole example of like, 302 00:15:19.720 --> 00:15:22.080 let's try this specific form of attention and do that 303 00:15:22.240 --> 00:15:26.000 against alternating with that neutral condition, back and forth, back 304 00:15:26.000 --> 00:15:28.240 and forth, back and forth. Still don't see anything, all right, 305 00:15:28.279 --> 00:15:31.080 Let's try a different type of attention condition and alternate 306 00:15:31.120 --> 00:15:32.840 that back and forth. Or let's try a different type 307 00:15:32.840 --> 00:15:36.039 of escape condition and alternate that back and forth. And 308 00:15:36.080 --> 00:15:39.360 there have been many studies summarizing data from functional analyzes 309 00:15:39.399 --> 00:15:44.080 from dozens of experiments, and that's honestly underselling it. Probably 310 00:15:44.159 --> 00:15:47.240 hundreds of experiments at this point showing that the pair 311 00:15:47.279 --> 00:15:51.159 wise arrangement can be really helpful and identifying a function 312 00:15:51.200 --> 00:15:54.480 in which the function of the behavior, like the outcome 313 00:15:54.519 --> 00:15:59.799 that individuals seeking, was not readily detectable in that standard arrangement. 314 00:16:00.200 --> 00:16:02.559 And so essentially you look at the published literature. There 315 00:16:02.559 --> 00:16:05.879 have been many, many, many studies at this point where 316 00:16:05.879 --> 00:16:08.919 they summarize dozens of cases at a time and sometimes 317 00:16:09.000 --> 00:16:12.080 over one hundred, and then looked at like, how often 318 00:16:12.360 --> 00:16:14.360 what was the pattern we saw, how often did it 319 00:16:14.399 --> 00:16:16.639 emerge that we saw this, How often did it emerge 320 00:16:16.639 --> 00:16:18.519 that we saw this? How often was it the case 321 00:16:18.519 --> 00:16:20.240 that we didn't see anything clear. 322 00:16:19.960 --> 00:16:20.480 In the data? 323 00:16:20.840 --> 00:16:23.240 And then how often in those circumstances was it the 324 00:16:23.240 --> 00:16:27.720 case that a pairwise assessment did yield some clear trends 325 00:16:27.919 --> 00:16:29.360 or patterns of the data. And there's quite a few 326 00:16:29.399 --> 00:16:30.360 that show that they did. 327 00:16:30.519 --> 00:16:33.120 Absolutely Now and many of you who have ever worked 328 00:16:33.159 --> 00:16:36.440 in a clinical direct service delivery capacity, you know you're 329 00:16:36.480 --> 00:16:39.200 working directly with clients, you're working family homes, you're working 330 00:16:39.240 --> 00:16:41.440 at schools, whatever might be. You might have had the 331 00:16:41.440 --> 00:16:44.440 thought while we're talking through FAS that while this assessment 332 00:16:44.480 --> 00:16:46.960 seems ideal and it seems like a great way to 333 00:16:46.960 --> 00:16:50.639 develop relevant interventions, it might be difficult or nearly impossible 334 00:16:50.639 --> 00:16:53.159 to implement in day to day operations in many places. 335 00:16:53.240 --> 00:16:57.440 And I've also heard that funding sources will not pay 336 00:16:57.600 --> 00:17:01.559 for additional time to do functional analysies unless it's a 337 00:17:01.559 --> 00:17:04.599 private pay space. But that's also a barrier that comes 338 00:17:04.680 --> 00:17:06.920 up too, is like not only is there like maybe 339 00:17:07.000 --> 00:17:09.680 does it seem difficult to do, but you might not 340 00:17:09.839 --> 00:17:12.119 be able to build an insurance company for it. 341 00:17:12.279 --> 00:17:14.240 That's a great point too. Yeah, there are variety of 342 00:17:14.240 --> 00:17:18.119 reasons people have cited as to why they cannot feasibly 343 00:17:18.160 --> 00:17:24.759 implement a functional analysis, and in response to that, first, 344 00:17:24.920 --> 00:17:27.559 some scholars have taken umbrage with that argument, and we'll 345 00:17:27.559 --> 00:17:29.920 outline one of the most seminal of those in just 346 00:17:29.920 --> 00:17:34.640 a moment. But second, there was another innovation was that 347 00:17:34.920 --> 00:17:39.880 perhaps the behavior function could be assessed simply by observing 348 00:17:40.039 --> 00:17:44.279 a natural environment in which the behavior could occur, rather 349 00:17:44.359 --> 00:17:47.799 than creating that evocative situation in sort of an experimental 350 00:17:48.119 --> 00:17:51.240 artificial environment. They're like, well, maybe what we could do 351 00:17:51.359 --> 00:17:54.000 is we could just watch this person and their sort 352 00:17:54.000 --> 00:17:57.079 of normal day to day and see if we can 353 00:17:57.160 --> 00:18:00.720 determine just observing them that way why those behaviors occur. 354 00:18:01.400 --> 00:18:03.799 Or maybe something that's even easier than that that could 355 00:18:03.839 --> 00:18:07.279 be sufficient enough to determine what the function of that 356 00:18:07.359 --> 00:18:10.799 challenge and behavior might be, is to just use a 357 00:18:10.880 --> 00:18:14.200 sort of standardized questionnaire with the relevant stakeholders in that 358 00:18:14.240 --> 00:18:17.880 person's world who might have enough experience and insight into 359 00:18:17.880 --> 00:18:20.799 those behaviors that we could glean the function of their 360 00:18:20.839 --> 00:18:25.680 behavior without direct observation and without that experimentation. So essentially 361 00:18:25.799 --> 00:18:28.079 the direction we're going right now is that people sort 362 00:18:28.079 --> 00:18:31.519 of argue, Okay, well a functional analysis seems great, but 363 00:18:31.680 --> 00:18:33.759 we just can't do it. So what can we do instead? 364 00:18:33.839 --> 00:18:37.839 And the two options are maybe we directly observe this 365 00:18:37.880 --> 00:18:40.440 behavior in its natural environment. Maybe we just ask the 366 00:18:40.480 --> 00:18:42.880 people who are around what is going on the way 367 00:18:42.880 --> 00:18:43.720 that they understand it. 368 00:18:44.039 --> 00:18:47.240 But there is an excellent article, and I love that 369 00:18:47.319 --> 00:18:50.920 it comes from this person because of their current work. Yeah, yeah, 370 00:18:50.920 --> 00:18:53.240 this was actually like a big schism in our field 371 00:18:53.359 --> 00:18:55.880 when this person went off to do their other things 372 00:18:56.160 --> 00:18:59.880 and actually from what I understand, cause some headbutting between 373 00:19:00.359 --> 00:19:02.759 I want to in this person. Yeah, even though this 374 00:19:02.799 --> 00:19:05.519 person was a student of iuaas so Greg Hanley and 375 00:19:05.720 --> 00:19:09.400 twenty twelve in the Journal of Behare Analysis in Practice 376 00:19:09.720 --> 00:19:13.160 passionately pointed out some of the arguments against fays and 377 00:19:13.240 --> 00:19:15.680 provided solutions to those arguments. So, like, this is one 378 00:19:15.680 --> 00:19:18.200 of those articles. It's just kind of like, oh, here 379 00:19:18.240 --> 00:19:20.720 are nine myths that people. It's a really good, like 380 00:19:20.799 --> 00:19:24.559 listical type of article. It's amazing. I mean, it's genuinely 381 00:19:24.599 --> 00:19:27.200 done so well because it's like, here's an argument, here 382 00:19:27.200 --> 00:19:29.359 are some examples in our literature. Here's an argument. Here 383 00:19:29.359 --> 00:19:31.400 are some examples of our literature that debunk that. So 384 00:19:31.400 --> 00:19:34.519 it's basically like a myth busting article, which is so cool. 385 00:19:34.559 --> 00:19:38.279 So yeah, the first argument is that people will say, oh, 386 00:19:38.319 --> 00:19:41.559 functional analyzes take too long, and he offered five minute 387 00:19:41.559 --> 00:19:44.519 sessions or trial based sessions or latency based fays which 388 00:19:44.559 --> 00:19:46.960 are much quicker. So like, there is a solution to 389 00:19:47.039 --> 00:19:50.960 that it takes too long argument, because there are variations 390 00:19:50.960 --> 00:19:52.759 that do reduce the amount of time it takes to 391 00:19:52.799 --> 00:19:53.640 assess the behavior. 392 00:19:54.000 --> 00:19:56.240 And actually for all of these like we're only going 393 00:19:56.279 --> 00:19:58.400 to list a few that he gave. There are quite 394 00:19:58.440 --> 00:19:59.920 a bit more that we're not going to get into, 395 00:20:00.079 --> 00:20:02.480 but I do. I did put the article in our 396 00:20:02.599 --> 00:20:04.640 links and references for people who want to go check 397 00:20:04.640 --> 00:20:07.039 it out because it is really really well written and 398 00:20:07.160 --> 00:20:11.119 has some really useful content. So he does provide like, Okay, 399 00:20:11.119 --> 00:20:14.000 if this is your problem, here's a potential solution. He 400 00:20:14.119 --> 00:20:17.400 also provides like, here's why this is also not really 401 00:20:17.440 --> 00:20:21.200