1 00:00:00,760 --> 00:00:05,000 Speaker 1: You're listening to the Paranormal UK Radio Network, the best 2 00:00:05,120 --> 00:00:08,919 in paranormal talk radio in the UK and around the world. 3 00:00:19,399 --> 00:00:24,879 Scary Era Era is the Irish or Gaelic word for Ireland. 4 00:00:25,480 --> 00:00:29,000 Paranormal means all the things that are impossible to explain 5 00:00:29,160 --> 00:00:33,000 by non natural forces or by science, and Ireland is 6 00:00:33,079 --> 00:00:39,479 steep and lower, ghosts, blood, sweat, tears, sacrifice, hunger, desperation 7 00:00:39,840 --> 00:00:44,520 and charm. Oh and the paranormal. Welcome to Scary Era, 8 00:00:45,000 --> 00:00:52,960 Mark Manning, come on in the water's warm and welcome 9 00:00:53,679 --> 00:01:00,719 to Scary We're going to County Fermana on the north 10 00:01:00,719 --> 00:01:03,520 of Ireland, so we are. We're going to talk paranormally 11 00:01:03,679 --> 00:01:06,640 type stuff and even a bit of enlightenment on today 12 00:01:06,799 --> 00:01:12,280 Scary Era. So that's what it sounds like. Beadways, come 13 00:01:12,439 --> 00:01:18,319 to the show. Email any observations you have or experience 14 00:01:18,959 --> 00:01:25,480 as you have had to Paranormal Island at ProtonMail dot com, 15 00:01:25,680 --> 00:01:31,040 car Renormal Island at proton dot com. Please just like 16 00:01:31,120 --> 00:01:35,079 and subscribe on whatever platform you're on. Now like and subscribe. 17 00:01:35,319 --> 00:01:38,000 I thanks, of course, as always goes to Paranormal UK 18 00:01:38,200 --> 00:01:41,200 Radio for hosting me and my blessed show and if 19 00:01:41,200 --> 00:01:44,519 you stick around. This is going to be a pretty 20 00:01:44,640 --> 00:01:48,200 blessed show or a noon like my bit of Latin. 21 00:01:48,879 --> 00:01:52,159 Please yourself. We have this guest on. He was amazing 22 00:01:52,680 --> 00:01:55,560 guy called Kiran Fanning. He'd just written a book which 23 00:01:55,599 --> 00:01:59,280 is still available called Haunted Ireland and he allows us 24 00:01:59,359 --> 00:02:02,599 to draw liberally from it, which we're about to do 25 00:02:02,959 --> 00:02:07,840 courtesy of David McGlynn aka the Squire. We're going to 26 00:02:07,920 --> 00:02:11,080 hear the story of the Coonean Ghost House and the 27 00:02:11,080 --> 00:02:15,159 Poultergeist goings on within. So settle down, take the weight 28 00:02:15,199 --> 00:02:18,319 off your face. The Koonean Ghost House is believed to 29 00:02:18,360 --> 00:02:21,199 be the only house in Ireland in which an exorcism 30 00:02:21,319 --> 00:02:24,960 was carried out by the way. Stick around because later 31 00:02:25,000 --> 00:02:27,560 in the show we'll be talking to a Catholic priest 32 00:02:27,639 --> 00:02:33,080 of forty years about exorcism and other blessed things. But first, 33 00:02:33,560 --> 00:02:36,319 I dare you to listen to what follows with the 34 00:02:36,400 --> 00:02:42,560 lights off, and if you're brave, make sure you've got 35 00:02:42,599 --> 00:02:46,840 a clean pair of underpants, panties, whatever sitting beside you. 36 00:02:47,439 --> 00:02:50,639 Guess you're going to be needing them. Kiddo, it's time 37 00:02:50,719 --> 00:02:54,280 to join the Squire aka David McGlynn and listen up 38 00:02:54,520 --> 00:02:57,159 as he relates a true story, and it is true 39 00:02:57,439 --> 00:02:59,759 about the poulter geist of Coonean House. 40 00:03:04,400 --> 00:03:06,840 Speaker 2: What brought a poltergeist into the little house in the 41 00:03:06,879 --> 00:03:10,599 woods nobody knows, but some people say that a man 42 00:03:10,639 --> 00:03:14,520 had once been killed there. The widow, Bridget Murphy knew 43 00:03:14,520 --> 00:03:17,240 nothing of this when she moved into the house with 44 00:03:17,360 --> 00:03:21,479 her adult son and six young daughters, although if she 45 00:03:21,520 --> 00:03:24,639 had done her research, she might have had second thoughts 46 00:03:24,680 --> 00:03:28,199 about moving in because the building had had many owners, 47 00:03:28,680 --> 00:03:32,599 each of whom had only stayed a short while. Indeed, 48 00:03:32,639 --> 00:03:35,520 the Sherry family she had bought the house from had 49 00:03:35,560 --> 00:03:39,319 only stayed there one night before selling it on. For 50 00:03:39,360 --> 00:03:42,560 a while, the Murphy family were happy there, but the 51 00:03:42,560 --> 00:03:46,719 trouble started one autumn night in nineteen thirteen, when the 52 00:03:46,800 --> 00:03:49,639 children were in bed and Bridget was nodding off by 53 00:03:49,639 --> 00:03:53,599 the fire, She was awoken by footsteps in the loft. 54 00:03:54,479 --> 00:03:57,280 Bridget knew it couldn't be any of the children, because 55 00:03:57,360 --> 00:04:01,919 James was asleep in one bedroom and the girls another. Furthermore, 56 00:04:02,400 --> 00:04:04,800 the loft was used to store hay and could only 57 00:04:04,800 --> 00:04:08,560 be accessed via the stairs from outside. She lit a 58 00:04:08,639 --> 00:04:12,080 candle and went into the loft to investigate, but there 59 00:04:12,159 --> 00:04:16,560 was nobody there. She checked the bedrooms, but her children 60 00:04:16,560 --> 00:04:19,959 were still sleeping. She'd only just sat down by the 61 00:04:20,000 --> 00:04:25,720 fire again when a loud bang made her jump. One 62 00:04:25,720 --> 00:04:28,519 of the girls woke up, screaming, and Bridget rushed in 63 00:04:28,560 --> 00:04:33,560 to comfort her. The banging noise, which seemed to be 64 00:04:33,639 --> 00:04:39,079 coming from the walls, came again and again, waking the 65 00:04:39,120 --> 00:04:42,079 rest of the girls and Bridget's twenty five year old son. 66 00:04:42,600 --> 00:04:49,240 Make it stop, wailed Catherine, the second youngest. The noises 67 00:04:49,279 --> 00:04:53,680 in the walls continued all night and only ceased with 68 00:04:53,720 --> 00:04:57,800 the arrival of the first rays of morning sunlight. They 69 00:04:57,839 --> 00:05:03,199 started again the following night and night after. Exhausted and terrified, 70 00:05:03,680 --> 00:05:07,959 Bridget sought the help of the local priest, Father Peter Smith, 71 00:05:08,040 --> 00:05:10,879 turned up to investigate and asked if he could stay 72 00:05:10,920 --> 00:05:15,600 the night while the family slept. Smith, armed with his 73 00:05:15,720 --> 00:05:20,240 Bible and holy water, stayed awake in the silent darkness. 74 00:05:20,439 --> 00:05:27,199 He waited and waited, and then it came. A sweeping 75 00:05:27,279 --> 00:05:32,079 noise like rustling straw blew into the room, followed by 76 00:05:32,160 --> 00:05:50,480 taps and then loud bangs in the walls. The Murphys 77 00:05:50,560 --> 00:05:54,079 all woke and huddled in terror, with the priest beside 78 00:05:54,120 --> 00:05:57,160 the dying embers of the fire, as the whole house 79 00:05:57,560 --> 00:06:01,480 reverberated with banging, as if a horse was kicking the walls, 80 00:06:02,319 --> 00:06:05,720 Smith held up his Bible and shouted, demon, can you 81 00:06:05,800 --> 00:06:09,399 hear me? The house suddenly fell silent, as if listening. 82 00:06:10,160 --> 00:06:14,199 If you hear me, called out the priest, not nine times. 83 00:06:15,079 --> 00:06:19,279 At first there was nothing, but then loud, distinct knocks 84 00:06:19,319 --> 00:06:23,399 came from within the walls. Everyone counted the knocks in 85 00:06:23,439 --> 00:06:31,920 their heads one, two, three, four, five, six, seven, eight nine. 86 00:06:32,959 --> 00:06:35,879 Convinced now that he was dealing with some supernatural force, 87 00:06:36,519 --> 00:06:39,759 Smith asked the same question in Irish and then Latin, 88 00:06:40,279 --> 00:06:46,279 and each time received the same reply, nine knocks. He 89 00:06:46,360 --> 00:06:48,800 asked how many of the people present had been born 90 00:06:48,839 --> 00:06:54,399 in County Monaghan, and again received the correct answer in knocks. 91 00:06:55,000 --> 00:06:57,800 After a sleepless night, the priest left the house to 92 00:06:57,879 --> 00:07:02,240 report to his superior. Bishop mc kenna of Cloher was 93 00:07:02,319 --> 00:07:04,959 so alarmed by the story that he asked the renowned 94 00:07:04,959 --> 00:07:10,079 exorcist Dean Kyohne to help, but the man refused. Not 95 00:07:10,160 --> 00:07:12,639 wanting to send Father Smith back to the house alone, 96 00:07:13,040 --> 00:07:16,680 the bishop asked another priest, Father Eugene Coyle from mc 97 00:07:16,680 --> 00:07:21,480 guire's Bridge to accompany him. Coyle was skeptical about the 98 00:07:21,480 --> 00:07:24,360 whole thing, but did as he was asked and waited 99 00:07:24,399 --> 00:07:27,600 by the fire for nightfall with Father Smith and the Murphys. 100 00:07:28,240 --> 00:07:32,680 As darkness descended, the sound of snoring came from the bedroom. 101 00:07:33,480 --> 00:07:38,360 Who's in there, asked Coyle. Nobody, said Anne, the eldest daughter. 102 00:07:39,000 --> 00:07:39,600 Speaker 1: We're all here. 103 00:07:41,000 --> 00:07:43,920 Speaker 2: Coyle lit a candle and went with Father Smith into 104 00:07:43,959 --> 00:07:48,000 the empty bedroom, followed by the Murphy's dog. The snoring 105 00:07:48,040 --> 00:07:50,279 seemed to be coming from one of the beds, even 106 00:07:50,319 --> 00:07:54,519 though it was empty. Coyle stepped closer for a better look, 107 00:07:55,120 --> 00:07:59,439 and before his eyes a human shape materialized beneath the sheet. 108 00:08:00,319 --> 00:08:02,639 The dog scampered under one of the beds in terror. 109 00:08:03,600 --> 00:08:06,000 You can talk to a whispered Smith from behind. Father 110 00:08:06,079 --> 00:08:11,319 coil watch now Psmith stepped forward and said, whatever is there? 111 00:08:11,759 --> 00:08:14,360 I would ask you, if you have the power, could 112 00:08:14,360 --> 00:08:18,439 you put the dog out from under the bed. The 113 00:08:18,480 --> 00:08:21,319 color drained from Coyle's face as he watched the shape 114 00:08:21,319 --> 00:08:25,560 squirm and rise, transforming into some sort of animal. It 115 00:08:25,680 --> 00:08:29,000 made a spitting noise which sent the Murphy's colleague bolting 116 00:08:29,000 --> 00:08:32,279 from the room. Coyle now had a question of his own, 117 00:08:33,000 --> 00:08:35,759 where do you come from? When he got no answer, 118 00:08:35,799 --> 00:08:39,279 he asked, are you from Hell? The shape beneath the 119 00:08:39,279 --> 00:08:43,519 sheet hissed angrily and then disappeared. The priests pulled back 120 00:08:43,519 --> 00:08:46,519 the sheet, but there was nothing unusual to be seen. Coil, 121 00:08:46,559 --> 00:08:49,159 in the state of shock, sat on the bed to recuperate. 122 00:08:49,720 --> 00:08:52,600 After a few moments, he felt something move beneath the 123 00:08:52,639 --> 00:08:56,240 sheet under his hand. Later he described it as feeling 124 00:08:56,360 --> 00:09:00,000 like a squirming rat or a wriggling eel. The two 125 00:09:00,000 --> 00:09:03,080 two priests left the house the following morning, shaken by 126 00:09:03,080 --> 00:09:06,840 their encounter. By this stage, there were all sorts of 127 00:09:06,919 --> 00:09:10,840 rumors circulating in the locality about the Murphy family. People 128 00:09:10,879 --> 00:09:13,399 said that James Murphy was practicing the dark arts in 129 00:09:13,440 --> 00:09:16,679 the house and had summoned monsters using a book he 130 00:09:16,720 --> 00:09:19,519 had found in the forest called The Legions of Demon. 131 00:09:20,399 --> 00:09:23,399 Others claimed to have seen a small white pig following 132 00:09:23,440 --> 00:09:26,440 the children in the forest. They presumed the animal was 133 00:09:26,480 --> 00:09:29,519 a demon of some sort, because the Murphys didn't own pigs. 134 00:09:30,120 --> 00:09:33,679 The Murphy girls were shunned in their embroidery class. It 135 00:09:33,720 --> 00:09:37,080 was all very upsetting. Others accused the Murphys of playing 136 00:09:37,080 --> 00:09:40,159 tricks on the priests. Do you think it's all an 137 00:09:40,159 --> 00:09:43,759 elaborate hoax, Coyle asked Smith on their way back to 138 00:09:43,799 --> 00:09:47,320 the house for another night on duty. Smith shook his head, 139 00:09:47,639 --> 00:09:49,559 but maybe we should try to prove that it's not 140 00:09:49,679 --> 00:09:53,440 the children tricking us. What do you mean? Smith came 141 00:09:53,519 --> 00:09:56,039 up with a plan. He invited some of the most 142 00:09:56,039 --> 00:09:58,919 suspicious neighbors around the house and told them to hold 143 00:09:58,919 --> 00:10:01,440 the hands and feet of each of the Murphy children 144 00:10:01,639 --> 00:10:06,399 to prevent them from secretly making knocking sounds. The neighbors obeyed, 145 00:10:06,840 --> 00:10:08,960 but as the light faded, the knocking on the walls 146 00:10:08,960 --> 00:10:14,480 began again and grew in intensity. The neighbors, now convinced 147 00:10:14,679 --> 00:10:17,360 that the children weren't the culprits, glanced at each other 148 00:10:17,480 --> 00:10:20,600 in terror. One of the men let out a painful groan. 149 00:10:21,240 --> 00:10:26,759 What's wrong, asked the neighbor. Someone's after punching me. Another farmer, 150 00:10:26,879 --> 00:10:30,000 a big, strong fellow, felt to the floor. Something pushed me. 151 00:10:30,759 --> 00:10:33,200 The neighbors fled the house, now convinced that the haunting 152 00:10:33,320 --> 00:10:35,799 wasn't a hoax, and adamant that they would never set 153 00:10:35,840 --> 00:10:39,840 foot in that infernal cottage again. The two priests returned 154 00:10:39,840 --> 00:10:43,440 to the cottage fifty times in total, and witnessed all 155 00:10:43,519 --> 00:10:47,559 manner of disturbing things like pots, pans, and plates being 156 00:10:47,600 --> 00:10:50,679 flung across the kitchen, beds being lifted off the floor, 157 00:10:50,759 --> 00:10:54,159 and sheets and pillows being tossed off the beds. A 158 00:10:54,240 --> 00:10:58,159 third priest visited the house sixteen times and experienced the 159 00:10:58,200 --> 00:11:01,600 same things. When he asked the ghosts to whistle, it did, 160 00:11:02,039 --> 00:11:04,840 and it could also tap out tunes like Boyne Water 161 00:11:05,000 --> 00:11:08,159 and the Soldier's Song. Other visitors to the house also 162 00:11:08,240 --> 00:11:14,120 encountered the ghost. A famous horse dealer from England arrived 163 00:11:14,120 --> 00:11:17,039 with a group of men to experience the haunting. He 164 00:11:17,080 --> 00:11:18,879 asked the ghost how many of the men with him 165 00:11:18,919 --> 00:11:22,080 had been born in Ireland. He received the correct reply 166 00:11:22,200 --> 00:11:27,559 in Knox. When he asked how many of the men 167 00:11:27,600 --> 00:11:30,759 were horse dealers, a knocking came from under his own chair. 168 00:11:32,759 --> 00:11:35,440 The only thing that seemed to silence the ghost was 169 00:11:35,480 --> 00:11:38,639 when mass was said in the kitchen. The poltergeist also 170 00:11:38,720 --> 00:11:48,360 reacted badly to holy communion and holy water. A fourth priest, 171 00:11:48,919 --> 00:11:52,360 Robert Hugh Benson, was asked to investigate the haunting, but 172 00:11:52,480 --> 00:11:56,879 mysteriously died before his planned visit. Indeed, the three priests 173 00:11:56,879 --> 00:11:59,240 who had spent time in the house all suffered bad 174 00:11:59,480 --> 00:12:02,759 after a fe of the haunting. One had a nervous breakdown, 175 00:12:03,080 --> 00:12:08,000 another contracted spinal meningitis, and the third suffered from facial paralysis. 176 00:12:08,679 --> 00:12:11,080 In the end, the Murphys fled the cottage for America, 177 00:12:11,519 --> 00:12:13,720 boarding a ship to New York on the third to 178 00:12:13,759 --> 00:12:18,399 first of July nineteen fifteen. Some said the poltergeys followed them, 179 00:12:18,679 --> 00:12:21,399 continuing to haunt them by knocking and banging on their 180 00:12:21,440 --> 00:12:24,320 cabin walls on the ship to such an extent that 181 00:12:24,399 --> 00:12:28,320 other passengers complained to the captain. Very little is known 182 00:12:28,360 --> 00:12:31,200 about what happened to the Murphy's after that, though it 183 00:12:31,320 --> 00:12:33,120 was said that one of the girls spent the rest 184 00:12:33,159 --> 00:12:50,320 of our life in a mental institution, not paranormal. 185 00:12:51,000 --> 00:13:01,399 Speaker 1: Maung Manning is real. Now that's a scary thort. Now, 186 00:13:01,440 --> 00:13:04,320 dear listener, if you're lucky in life, every so often 187 00:13:04,360 --> 00:13:07,840 you get to talk to somebody truly extraordinary, and my 188 00:13:07,919 --> 00:13:11,879 next guest falls right into that category. His name is 189 00:13:11,960 --> 00:13:16,399 father Michael Collins. You can read about him on Fathermichaelcollins 190 00:13:16,440 --> 00:13:20,240 dot com. Because, as I said, he's truly extraordinary. He 191 00:13:20,320 --> 00:13:23,360 is not only an ordained priest in the Catholic Church 192 00:13:23,399 --> 00:13:28,320 for the last forty years, but an author of several books, 193 00:13:28,759 --> 00:13:31,879 as well as being accomplished in the area of studies 194 00:13:32,000 --> 00:13:36,440 like a philosophy of Greek and Roman and archaeology. He 195 00:13:36,519 --> 00:13:40,559 has taught in several universities, indeed in Rome like the 196 00:13:40,639 --> 00:13:43,919 American University. He tells me he's about to release a 197 00:13:43,960 --> 00:13:47,120 book shortly to mark the soon to be canonization. I 198 00:13:47,159 --> 00:13:50,039 think it's at the end of April of Carlo Acutas, 199 00:13:50,200 --> 00:13:53,759 who was a software wiz, and he was only fifteen 200 00:13:53,799 --> 00:13:56,360 years of age when he died in two thousand and six, 201 00:13:56,559 --> 00:13:58,600 and in that short space of time he managed to 202 00:13:58,639 --> 00:14:00,759 make such an impression that he will be a saint. 203 00:14:00,960 --> 00:14:04,000 But it's of devils and stuff we started our conversation with, 204 00:14:04,279 --> 00:14:08,080 namely exorcism. So get you that cup of coffee or tea, 205 00:14:08,320 --> 00:14:11,279 sit down, relax and eavesdrop on our conversation. 206 00:14:11,600 --> 00:14:15,639 Speaker 3: But going back to your question about exorcism, it's a 207 00:14:15,720 --> 00:14:18,120 thing that a lot of people don't really understand. But 208 00:14:18,320 --> 00:14:22,159 bottom line is everybody understands the difference between good and evil. 209 00:14:22,399 --> 00:14:26,399 What the right, moral, upright and honorable thing to do? Is, 210 00:14:26,639 --> 00:14:29,879 and then what's the cheap and easy way to cheat 211 00:14:29,919 --> 00:14:32,799 people is as well, And so many of us are 212 00:14:33,120 --> 00:14:35,480 tempted as a bit like sugar. We know sugar spat 213 00:14:35,519 --> 00:14:37,679 but we know that it can give us cancer, We 214 00:14:37,720 --> 00:14:40,600 know that it can give us headaches, it can change 215 00:14:40,600 --> 00:14:43,399 our mood, our energy levels, et cetera. And yet we 216 00:14:43,600 --> 00:14:47,039 all have sugar, sugar, sugar, and we know that we 217 00:14:47,120 --> 00:14:49,120 should avoid it. So it's a bit I think that's 218 00:14:49,120 --> 00:14:54,000 the similar for avoiding evil and doing good. Unfortunately, very 219 00:14:54,000 --> 00:14:55,639 few of us managed to do it. But at the 220 00:14:55,679 --> 00:14:59,080 same time, certainly from the Christian and the Jewish and 221 00:14:59,200 --> 00:15:02,559 the Islamic traditions, and indeed, I think you'd probably say 222 00:15:02,559 --> 00:15:05,360 for most religions in the world, the call is to 223 00:15:05,399 --> 00:15:09,360 do good and at the minimum do no harm. Were 224 00:15:09,440 --> 00:15:13,720 where that evil exists. And in the Jewish and Christian traditions, 225 00:15:14,000 --> 00:15:17,919 we've characterized this as an actual personage. Now that's following 226 00:15:18,240 --> 00:15:21,200 in the Christian tradition the words of Jesus, who referred 227 00:15:21,240 --> 00:15:25,120 to the devil virtually as a personage, but it was 228 00:15:25,120 --> 00:15:30,679 still a personage which held rejection of God. According to 229 00:15:30,720 --> 00:15:35,120 the tradition, Satan is an angel who was in the 230 00:15:35,159 --> 00:15:38,759 presence of God, who rebelled and turned against God. But 231 00:15:39,039 --> 00:15:43,639 Jesus was trying to get this idea across of negative 232 00:15:44,159 --> 00:15:48,279 actions to try and do things which are honorable and just. 233 00:15:48,919 --> 00:15:53,960 Speaker 1: I think the problem as well, Father, is that people's 234 00:15:54,000 --> 00:15:59,759 idea of exorcism largely goes back to you know, maybe 235 00:15:59,759 --> 00:16:02,840 how would the Hollywood movies? How different is the real 236 00:16:02,919 --> 00:16:04,639 thing from what we see in films? 237 00:16:05,159 --> 00:16:08,080 Speaker 3: I think it's very very different. I mean, cinema obviously 238 00:16:08,159 --> 00:16:12,039 has to rely on sound, on exaggerated images. It's got 239 00:16:12,080 --> 00:16:15,000 to capture a lot of things within a few seconds. 240 00:16:15,080 --> 00:16:18,840 This film is so expensive to make. So yes, I've 241 00:16:18,919 --> 00:16:23,679 never actually witnessed an exorcism, but I've witnessed and seen 242 00:16:23,720 --> 00:16:27,200 people being prayed over very fine of many times, and 243 00:16:27,240 --> 00:16:30,480 it's just something very normal and relaxed, if you like. 244 00:16:30,639 --> 00:16:34,919 It's praying for somebody perhaps who's sick, praying for somebody 245 00:16:34,960 --> 00:16:39,039 who's troubled, praying for somebody in difficulty. So it's literally 246 00:16:39,120 --> 00:16:43,120 just joining in a fraternal prayer, being present with that person, 247 00:16:43,399 --> 00:16:46,960 and then asking God to listen to our prayers and 248 00:16:47,039 --> 00:16:50,360 to restore the personal to help the person in whatever 249 00:16:50,519 --> 00:16:52,919 way that they would need, and whichever is appropriate for 250 00:16:53,039 --> 00:16:55,240 their beneficial curing. 251 00:16:56,000 --> 00:17:00,480 Speaker 1: And are there certain things, say like games and rituals 252 00:17:00,639 --> 00:17:04,279 or even places that you'd caution people to avoid dabbling in, 253 00:17:04,319 --> 00:17:05,480 you know, just to be safe. 254 00:17:07,240 --> 00:17:09,799 Speaker 3: Not really, no, I think in actual fact I wouldn't 255 00:17:09,799 --> 00:17:13,759 be concerned about people going into areas where, for example, 256 00:17:13,920 --> 00:17:17,640 some people say, oh, don't dabble tarot cards, that don't 257 00:17:17,680 --> 00:17:21,359 dabble with your cult, don't dabble with uchi boards or whatever. 258 00:17:22,160 --> 00:17:29,279 I'd actually say on the country, The road to uprightness, 259 00:17:29,319 --> 00:17:33,720 the road to perfection, the road to happiness is in fact, 260 00:17:33,839 --> 00:17:37,319 just following your conscience rather than anything else, and doing 261 00:17:37,440 --> 00:17:41,319 as best you can so that you live by the 262 00:17:41,359 --> 00:17:44,640 old golden rule, which is to do no harm to 263 00:17:44,680 --> 00:17:47,759 anybody and do unto others as you'd like them to 264 00:17:47,799 --> 00:17:51,240 do to you. So that's the concept, and therefore there 265 00:17:51,240 --> 00:17:53,640 are so many things that we need to do. For example, 266 00:17:53,680 --> 00:17:57,079 when you've got the opportunity to defraud somebody and you're 267 00:17:57,160 --> 00:17:59,960 tempted to defraud them, and in particular if you think 268 00:18:00,160 --> 00:18:03,599 could be for all them without them noticing and maybe 269 00:18:03,720 --> 00:18:06,599 getting you into trouble, well you just don't do that 270 00:18:06,640 --> 00:18:09,079 because it's not the right thing. I remember my father's 271 00:18:09,079 --> 00:18:13,680 funny enough. When I was probably about fourteen or fifteen one, 272 00:18:13,759 --> 00:18:15,440 they were having a couple of tea in the kitchen 273 00:18:15,559 --> 00:18:18,279 and we're chatting about various things, and he said to me, 274 00:18:19,160 --> 00:18:22,359 never take a brown envelope. And I was thinking that's 275 00:18:22,359 --> 00:18:24,079 a very funny thing, but I was too young to 276 00:18:24,160 --> 00:18:26,079 understand until he explained it to me. 277 00:18:26,200 --> 00:18:28,200 Speaker 1: And for those of you outside of Ireland, a brown 278 00:18:28,279 --> 00:18:30,640 envelope was a euphemism for a bribe. 279 00:18:31,359 --> 00:18:33,720 Speaker 3: He was an architect and in his day there was 280 00:18:33,759 --> 00:18:37,720 a lot of brown envelopes being exchanged around Dublin between 281 00:18:37,720 --> 00:18:39,440 politicians and builders. 282 00:18:39,000 --> 00:18:40,319 Speaker 1: And architects very much. 283 00:18:40,400 --> 00:18:42,960 Speaker 3: So there's a lot of that, and we're going back 284 00:18:43,000 --> 00:18:45,839 to the seventies and eighties. And he said, you know, Michael, 285 00:18:46,079 --> 00:18:49,720 never do something that you'd be ashamed of by the 286 00:18:49,759 --> 00:18:53,519 time evening rise. I always thought to myself, that's a 287 00:18:54,039 --> 00:18:56,720 kind of a you know, quite a challenge. But the 288 00:18:56,960 --> 00:18:59,400 old I've gotten, the longer I've lived, I've realized that 289 00:18:59,480 --> 00:19:02,960 it's true. We're often tempted to do things which in 290 00:19:03,000 --> 00:19:04,759 the heat of the moment, when I'd say, oh, I'll 291 00:19:04,759 --> 00:19:07,200 get away with that, or I'll do that, or maybe 292 00:19:07,200 --> 00:19:10,759 it's not going to harm anybody in particular, but in 293 00:19:10,839 --> 00:19:13,759 actual fact, as you know it does, it harms both 294 00:19:13,839 --> 00:19:16,160 you as arms the person that you're harming. 295 00:19:16,559 --> 00:19:21,079 Speaker 1: Like, what's the most common misunderstanding people have about demonic 296 00:19:21,160 --> 00:19:23,160 activity or spiritual oppression? 297 00:19:24,200 --> 00:19:28,599 Speaker 3: I think probably, Again, I'm not an expert, but my 298 00:19:28,759 --> 00:19:33,400 guess is going to be that the devil is a 299 00:19:33,480 --> 00:19:39,279 semi comical figure with a tail and a trident in 300 00:19:39,319 --> 00:19:42,920 his hands and a red cape, and is wandering around 301 00:19:43,039 --> 00:19:47,759 like an anti superman trying to get people into trouble. 302 00:19:47,920 --> 00:19:50,240 I don't think it's quite as simple as that, I 303 00:19:50,279 --> 00:19:52,559 would say. I see it much more in terms of 304 00:19:52,599 --> 00:19:56,480 the choice of the conscience, the choice of the individual 305 00:19:56,519 --> 00:19:58,599 who can live out their lives as best they can, 306 00:19:59,039 --> 00:20:03,599 doing good avoiding evil. That having been said, within all 307 00:20:03,640 --> 00:20:06,559 of us, we all have different personalities, and many of 308 00:20:06,640 --> 00:20:11,720 us have what we could perhaps call personality traits and failings, 309 00:20:12,319 --> 00:20:16,559 and therefore we're not able despite our best efforts or 310 00:20:16,640 --> 00:20:21,039 our best well, yeah, our best efforts. Really despite that, 311 00:20:21,079 --> 00:20:24,559 we're not able to do the right thing, and we 312 00:20:24,759 --> 00:20:30,920 fall into waysides and we end up wasting the talents 313 00:20:30,960 --> 00:20:33,920 which we have and wasting so much energy and achieving 314 00:20:34,039 --> 00:20:37,920 very little. We're sailed by so many things that just 315 00:20:38,480 --> 00:20:42,079 bombard us, and it's so difficult to resist that. I 316 00:20:42,079 --> 00:20:45,839 remember seeing wonderful movie about twenty years ago. It cannot 317 00:20:46,119 --> 00:20:49,000 called The Great Silence, the Suffering Well with You to 318 00:20:49,039 --> 00:20:50,960 set in a Carthusian monastery. 319 00:20:51,200 --> 00:20:53,960 Speaker 1: No, it's the only bed of rings with me is 320 00:20:53,960 --> 00:20:56,000 when I'm in trouble with my wife. 321 00:20:56,440 --> 00:20:57,720 Speaker 3: No, no, this is a different one. 322 00:20:57,759 --> 00:20:59,359 Speaker 1: Okay, I get a big silence. 323 00:21:03,440 --> 00:21:06,480 Speaker 3: No, exactly what you mean. Now, this is a wonderful movie. 324 00:21:06,559 --> 00:21:10,200 It was made by celebrated filmmakers. His name I can't remember, 325 00:21:10,680 --> 00:21:14,599 but he wrote to a monastery. He wrote to the 326 00:21:14,599 --> 00:21:17,480 abbot of a monastery in Switzerland, and he said, you know, 327 00:21:17,559 --> 00:21:19,839 I'd love to come over one time and do a 328 00:21:19,880 --> 00:21:25,559 short movie, perhaps an hour or so documentary about your lifestyle, 329 00:21:25,599 --> 00:21:29,279 because you live in virtual silence apart from an hour 330 00:21:29,400 --> 00:21:31,960 or two in the day when you get together and 331 00:21:32,000 --> 00:21:34,400 you have common recreation. But the rest of the day 332 00:21:34,400 --> 00:21:37,319 you spent in prayer and silence and given your meals 333 00:21:37,400 --> 00:21:40,200 to take in listening to readings from the Bible or 334 00:21:40,240 --> 00:21:42,839 holy books. And it sounds fascinating, but I think what 335 00:21:42,920 --> 00:21:45,799 he also meant was the funds rather extreme. So after 336 00:21:45,920 --> 00:21:49,160 thirteen years he got a reply from the abbess who said, 337 00:21:50,000 --> 00:21:52,839 thank you for your letter, which I received some years ago, 338 00:21:53,440 --> 00:21:57,160 and I'm certainly going to give it more consideration. So 339 00:21:57,240 --> 00:22:00,400 another few years went by and I think this man 340 00:22:00,440 --> 00:22:02,519 had written back and said, oh, that's wonderful, thank you, 341 00:22:02,599 --> 00:22:05,759 because he'd virtually forgotten about and giving up. So eventually 342 00:22:05,759 --> 00:22:09,440 a few years later that broke back and said, as 343 00:22:09,440 --> 00:22:11,839 I mentioned to my last letter, I was thinking about, 344 00:22:11,880 --> 00:22:14,119 and I'm happy for you to come. So the guy 345 00:22:14,200 --> 00:22:19,119 went up into this charterhouse, this beautiful old monastery way 346 00:22:19,200 --> 00:22:22,119 up in the hills, I think it was Switzerland or 347 00:22:22,680 --> 00:22:26,000 the south of France, and just have a blank at 348 00:22:26,000 --> 00:22:27,880 the moment where it was. But the deal was he 349 00:22:27,920 --> 00:22:31,799 could only bring in a handheld camera, and alright, already 350 00:22:31,920 --> 00:22:36,160 the two thousands digital tape was available and very high quality. 351 00:22:36,200 --> 00:22:38,720 But he agreed to the terms that he'd come in 352 00:22:38,759 --> 00:22:41,440 and he wouldn't cause any disturbance. So he just walks 353 00:22:41,480 --> 00:22:44,400 around the monastery and I think the film meant something 354 00:22:44,440 --> 00:22:46,640 about two and a half hours, and I'm sure some 355 00:22:46,759 --> 00:22:50,400 listeners will remember seeing the movie in the IFI, or 356 00:22:50,480 --> 00:22:53,720 you can even get one DVD now, But there's almost 357 00:22:53,759 --> 00:22:56,599 complete silence apart from a little bit of singing in 358 00:22:56,720 --> 00:23:00,519 gurgoyne chant in Latin music which would date back more 359 00:23:00,559 --> 00:23:03,920 than a thousand years, and that's it. And people were 360 00:23:04,039 --> 00:23:07,359 fascinated with that movie because it opened the window into 361 00:23:07,400 --> 00:23:10,519 a world of which they were completely unywhere and these 362 00:23:10,640 --> 00:23:15,519 men and indeed their women, in these enclosed confidence who 363 00:23:15,519 --> 00:23:21,079 embrace the life of silence. They're so content, contemplative, peaceful, 364 00:23:21,200 --> 00:23:25,079 tranquil at what they're doing, just concentrating on the beauty 365 00:23:25,119 --> 00:23:27,599 of the world all around them. And even in a 366 00:23:27,680 --> 00:23:31,000 cold cell and it's the middle of winter and the 367 00:23:31,039 --> 00:23:35,559 snow outside, even still these monks are very quietly, each 368 00:23:35,640 --> 00:23:38,559 sitting in their own cell pray, then going down to 369 00:23:38,640 --> 00:23:43,039 the Chapel four common prayer and there's something like that. 370 00:23:43,200 --> 00:23:46,920 Then your mind is totally concentrated on God. Now, for 371 00:23:47,079 --> 00:23:49,400 most of us, i'd say ninety nine point nine percent, 372 00:23:50,000 --> 00:23:52,359 that's so extreme that we wouldn't be able for that 373 00:23:52,680 --> 00:23:55,920 esthetic way of life. But what I think most of 374 00:23:56,000 --> 00:24:00,319 us need is to have a little time in our 375 00:24:00,400 --> 00:24:03,960 day that we can be completely silent and tune in 376 00:24:04,000 --> 00:24:06,200 with the divine. And just to give you an example, 377 00:24:06,240 --> 00:24:10,240 there are spots all over the country where this is possible. 378 00:24:11,000 --> 00:24:14,240 I'm sure you're aware of glenstol Obb in Limerick Country, Limerick. 379 00:24:14,400 --> 00:24:16,880 Speaker 1: Do you know, just as you were talking to me, 380 00:24:17,839 --> 00:24:20,039 I was saying to myself, I've got to ask them 381 00:24:20,039 --> 00:24:21,599 about that, because I tell you what I used to 382 00:24:21,599 --> 00:24:24,960 do father, and I still do occasionally. I get up here. 383 00:24:25,000 --> 00:24:28,359 I'm a voiceover guy for my living right and I 384 00:24:28,400 --> 00:24:30,960 have a studio outside the house, and I'd often come 385 00:24:31,000 --> 00:24:33,279 in early in the morning and i'd log into their 386 00:24:33,319 --> 00:24:36,599 website because they've got a web they've got a webcam, 387 00:24:36,920 --> 00:24:40,000 and i'd listen to the matins. Is that what are called? 388 00:24:41,000 --> 00:24:45,000 And it's beautiful and I look at them and I 389 00:24:46,000 --> 00:24:52,559 kind of envy that simplicity and yet intensity. If that 390 00:24:52,599 --> 00:24:54,799 doesn't sound like a contradiction, probably does. 391 00:24:55,720 --> 00:24:58,599 Speaker 3: And the contradiction, yeah, I know exactly what means that 392 00:24:58,759 --> 00:25:01,400 kind of intense concentration. 393 00:25:02,440 --> 00:25:05,079 Speaker 1: Yeah, And again it goes back to what you were saying, 394 00:25:05,160 --> 00:25:07,920 you know, about the devil inside essentially as opposed to 395 00:25:08,000 --> 00:25:11,799 kind of a third party. I think there's a divide itself, 396 00:25:12,680 --> 00:25:13,279 the negative. 397 00:25:13,400 --> 00:25:15,880 Speaker 3: Plato talks about that. You're you're right, I didn't Plato 398 00:25:16,000 --> 00:25:18,680 talks about the appetite to do the right thing, and 399 00:25:18,720 --> 00:25:22,599 then the urges, which are our appetites, which draw us 400 00:25:22,640 --> 00:25:25,400 off invariably to do the wrong thing. They've gone back 401 00:25:25,440 --> 00:25:27,720 to the sugar analogy. So much of our energy is 402 00:25:27,799 --> 00:25:33,240 taken either devy sugar or avoiding diviron sugar. But we 403 00:25:33,279 --> 00:25:36,039 don't have time to do the healthy things which build 404 00:25:36,119 --> 00:25:41,519 up our body. But mentioning that monastery of Glenstop, one 405 00:25:41,519 --> 00:25:45,000 of the fundamental things of all Benedictine monasteries, in all 406 00:25:45,079 --> 00:25:48,359 religious houses, is that anybody who knocks on the door 407 00:25:48,880 --> 00:25:51,680 is to be welcomed. And Saint Benedict, who wrote his 408 00:25:52,319 --> 00:25:55,799 rule or his way of living fifteen hundred years ago, 409 00:25:55,880 --> 00:25:59,599 he said, he said in the chapter and Hospitality said, 410 00:26:00,039 --> 00:26:03,640 anybody who presents themselves at the door must be welcomed 411 00:26:03,680 --> 00:26:07,440 as Christ himself visiting. So it doesn't matter who you are, 412 00:26:07,599 --> 00:26:11,599 whether you're Christian, whether you're whatever, any religion or none, 413 00:26:11,759 --> 00:26:14,480 You've got to be welcomed. And they always have a 414 00:26:14,519 --> 00:26:18,759 guest room and etc. So every monastery will have an 415 00:26:18,799 --> 00:26:22,039 area which is a guest house. Now, Denstall was very 416 00:26:22,160 --> 00:26:25,640 lucky about twenty years ago because an American lady visited 417 00:26:25,880 --> 00:26:29,799 she was Presbyterian. She didn't know much about the Catholic Church, 418 00:26:29,839 --> 00:26:31,559 but she happened to be in Ireland on a visit 419 00:26:31,880 --> 00:26:34,440 called into glen Stall. She met some of the monks, 420 00:26:34,519 --> 00:26:39,880 became friendly with them. Then within maybe two years or so, 421 00:26:39,960 --> 00:26:42,759 she gave them a very large sum of money. She 422 00:26:42,839 --> 00:26:45,640 is very wealthy from our background in America, and she 423 00:26:45,640 --> 00:26:47,359 gave them a very large sum of money to build 424 00:26:47,400 --> 00:26:49,400 a new guest house so that they could no longer 425 00:26:49,599 --> 00:26:53,359 just have three guests in their little guest house, because 426 00:26:53,400 --> 00:26:57,079 they've donely three bedrooms and it's now about twelve bedrooms. 427 00:26:57,119 --> 00:27:00,839 And she herself actually converted to become a Catholic sometime 428 00:27:00,920 --> 00:27:03,839 after that. But the curious thing is, I've been going 429 00:27:03,839 --> 00:27:06,119 there for forty years. Anytime I tried to get in, 430 00:27:06,200 --> 00:27:10,880 nowadays it's always full. So all these places, the more 431 00:27:11,400 --> 00:27:14,319 at the world is alluring and distracting, et cetera, more 432 00:27:14,319 --> 00:27:18,599 people want to go away, and the monasteries offer a 433 00:27:18,640 --> 00:27:23,599 wonderful place of hospitality first of all. And then you're 434 00:27:23,640 --> 00:27:25,680 just left to your own devices. If you want to 435 00:27:25,720 --> 00:27:31,480 talk to monks, maybe discuss issues or concerns, or tease 436 00:27:31,519 --> 00:27:34,079 out the elements of your faith. Which you are interested in. 437 00:27:34,599 --> 00:27:37,920 They're there to facilitate that, and you can do that 438 00:27:38,000 --> 00:27:39,960 either in a one to one basis, or you can 439 00:27:40,200 --> 00:27:44,200 maybe sometimes join some of the retreats which they organize. 440 00:27:44,359 --> 00:27:46,680 And I go on a retreat to a beautiful French 441 00:27:46,759 --> 00:27:52,440 monastery every year, which is absolutely beautiful, and in France 442 00:27:52,480 --> 00:27:55,720 it's called Solem and it's very famous. I mentioned we're 443 00:27:55,759 --> 00:27:59,200 going chant. It's very famous for it's beautiful Latin music, 444 00:27:59,400 --> 00:28:01,680 most of which goes back a thousand or a thousand, 445 00:28:01,720 --> 00:28:05,680 four hundred years, and it's beautiful to step into a tradition. 446 00:28:06,119 --> 00:28:09,279 It's like stepping into a river and the waters are cool, 447 00:28:09,319 --> 00:28:11,880 but they're still flowing around you, so you feel this 448 00:28:12,039 --> 00:28:14,920 is a lived in place. There's been monks here or 449 00:28:15,160 --> 00:28:19,200 hundreds hundreds, one hundreds of years, one generation after the other, 450 00:28:19,599 --> 00:28:23,319 and as one generation dies, you and novices present themselves 451 00:28:23,359 --> 00:28:26,400 at the door of the monastery to join. And that's 452 00:28:26,440 --> 00:28:30,599 the way it's been. And curiously, religious life in France, 453 00:28:30,640 --> 00:28:35,200 for example, which in large parts the population had lost 454 00:28:35,279 --> 00:28:38,759 interest in their Christian faith. So many of these monasteries 455 00:28:39,200 --> 00:28:42,880 are very well attended and quite full, you could say, 456 00:28:43,160 --> 00:28:45,920 because they have a certain amount of people who've decided 457 00:28:46,039 --> 00:28:47,880 this is a way of life for me. I love 458 00:28:47,960 --> 00:28:51,119 this tranquility. I love the routine as you mentioned, getting 459 00:28:51,200 --> 00:28:54,359 up for mappens early in the morning, getting the day underway, 460 00:28:54,839 --> 00:28:59,480 their prayer, they have common work, then they have a 461 00:28:59,519 --> 00:29:03,000 little rec creation, then they have their meals and rest time. 462 00:29:03,519 --> 00:29:08,599 So those four parts that they gell very well. So therefore, 463 00:29:08,640 --> 00:29:12,759 going back to your original question about exoricism, exorcism is 464 00:29:12,839 --> 00:29:16,680 really an intent at an operation is an operation to 465 00:29:16,720 --> 00:29:20,319 try and help a patient who is sick. So exorcism 466 00:29:20,440 --> 00:29:25,519 is simply recognizing that somebody has a spiritual disase or 467 00:29:25,599 --> 00:29:30,000 disease within them and this has to be you know, 468 00:29:30,039 --> 00:29:32,519 it has to be addressed, and sometimes it can be 469 00:29:32,640 --> 00:29:35,880 dressed very quietly and talk to the person and a 470 00:29:35,880 --> 00:29:39,359 bit like a psychologist or a psychiatrist would deal with 471 00:29:39,400 --> 00:29:42,640 their clients or patients, and then the patient would respond 472 00:29:43,160 --> 00:29:46,640 by trying to modify their way of living. That's it's 473 00:29:46,680 --> 00:29:49,200 the same type of thing. So as I say, what 474 00:29:49,319 --> 00:29:53,400 you're talking about Hollywood and fire and brimstone and all 475 00:29:53,480 --> 00:29:56,640 that type of stuff, that's not how it happens at all. 476 00:29:56,960 --> 00:29:59,079 Very often it's just going to be a very quiet 477 00:29:59,119 --> 00:30:02,839 dialogue and asking the person how they feel. So the 478 00:30:02,880 --> 00:30:04,920 idea of having as it was in the Old and 479 00:30:05,000 --> 00:30:10,079 New Testament, with Satan responding and shouting and screaming, that's 480 00:30:10,359 --> 00:30:13,039 I think. Yeah, Hollywood is exactly the word you're looking for. 481 00:30:13,359 --> 00:30:17,759 Speaker 1: Yeah, but I think you know, historically their workcases kind 482 00:30:17,799 --> 00:30:19,319 of like that. I suppose you know. 483 00:30:20,839 --> 00:30:23,000 Speaker 3: I'm not denying that. I'm I'm sure there and they 484 00:30:23,039 --> 00:30:27,240 probably still are. There could be, but that probably is. 485 00:30:27,839 --> 00:30:31,599 First of all, that could be the interaction that a 486 00:30:31,680 --> 00:30:35,839 religious hab would have with a person who is virtually 487 00:30:35,880 --> 00:30:40,799 their whole personality has been taken over by by evil. 488 00:30:41,000 --> 00:30:43,200 And I think that can happen, There's absolutely no doubt. 489 00:30:43,279 --> 00:30:46,079 But I mean, look at adolescence. I haven't seen it yet, 490 00:30:46,119 --> 00:30:50,039 but that's the talk of the talent. And funny enough, 491 00:30:50,240 --> 00:30:54,359 I've just written a short book on a young English boy. 492 00:30:54,519 --> 00:30:58,240 While he's barely English, is actually born in London, but 493 00:30:58,519 --> 00:31:00,519 at the age of three months as parents brought him 494 00:31:00,559 --> 00:31:02,759 back to Italy, where he grew up to the age 495 00:31:02,759 --> 00:31:07,920 of fifteen. He was by all accounts saw his family. 496 00:31:08,039 --> 00:31:12,400 Contemporaries say he was a very good person. He went 497 00:31:12,440 --> 00:31:15,480 to Mass every day, prayed the Rosary. He helped in 498 00:31:15,720 --> 00:31:20,079 Mother Teresa's missionary house in Milan, and he helped the 499 00:31:20,160 --> 00:31:23,519 caption suit kitchen, and yet at the age of fifteen 500 00:31:23,559 --> 00:31:26,440 he was struck down with leukemia and was dead eleven 501 00:31:26,519 --> 00:31:29,640 days later. So he's actually going to be canonized by 502 00:31:29,640 --> 00:31:33,160 the Pope at the end of April, on the Sunday, 503 00:31:33,200 --> 00:31:36,119 the twenty seventh of April. And he is an example 504 00:31:36,160 --> 00:31:40,480 of somebody who was a good person and yet also 505 00:31:41,160 --> 00:31:45,000 was struck down. But people respond to his goodness and 506 00:31:45,039 --> 00:31:49,440 they're fascinated by the integrity of his life. And a 507 00:31:49,599 --> 00:31:53,240 funny enough, I was on a radio program recently and 508 00:31:53,559 --> 00:31:56,400 somebody was talking about sanctity and what is the saint? 509 00:31:56,799 --> 00:32:00,000 And I think it's, after all, just an ordinary Christian 510 00:32:00,359 --> 00:32:04,799 who's trying to live out an ordinary life and achieve holiness, 511 00:32:04,839 --> 00:32:09,799 and holiness has simply been wholly integrated in yourself so 512 00:32:09,839 --> 00:32:12,359 that you're not, you know, a checker and hide character. 513 00:32:12,480 --> 00:32:15,640 So it's a kind of a journey Christian life. Of course, 514 00:32:15,640 --> 00:32:18,000 in all life is just a journey. So it's a 515 00:32:18,119 --> 00:32:24,319 journey of integration, putting aside things which distract us, which 516 00:32:25,039 --> 00:32:29,400 do nothing to help our personalities grow. But in fact 517 00:32:29,519 --> 00:32:33,279 stunt us and dissipate our energy, and then that wholeness 518 00:32:33,559 --> 00:32:37,680 which allows us concentrate and have this lovely vision of God. 519 00:32:37,880 --> 00:32:41,200 And this a young boy whose name was Carlo Akutis, 520 00:32:41,319 --> 00:32:44,920 had a lovely expression. He said, some people sit in 521 00:32:44,960 --> 00:32:48,680 the sun to get at tom but if we sit 522 00:32:48,799 --> 00:32:53,559 before God in the tabernacle, in the Christian tabernacle, we 523 00:32:53,799 --> 00:32:57,839 are bathed in the life of Christ. There's a lovely image. 524 00:32:58,119 --> 00:33:00,799 And he also then reflected in the world and he said, 525 00:33:00,839 --> 00:33:03,880 you know, I passed the football stadiums, and there's cinemas, 526 00:33:03,880 --> 00:33:07,480 and there's queues of young people going into concerts and 527 00:33:07,559 --> 00:33:09,720 all these types of things. But I go into a 528 00:33:09,799 --> 00:33:13,920 church and it's almost empty. So what's gone wrong here? 529 00:33:14,519 --> 00:33:17,000 And again this is what we're talking about. I'm not 530 00:33:17,039 --> 00:33:20,079 saying that the devil is out printing tickets or ticket Master, 531 00:33:20,680 --> 00:33:24,200 but it's probably true that many of us spend our 532 00:33:24,240 --> 00:33:29,599 money frivolously. And it's always been us. We spend our 533 00:33:29,720 --> 00:33:33,599 money frivolously when we could do something really worthwhile with 534 00:33:33,880 --> 00:33:36,480 not just our money, but what with our talents, with 535 00:33:36,559 --> 00:33:37,799 the time, with our energy. 536 00:33:40,359 --> 00:33:43,079 Speaker 1: I'm thinking about you saying, going into a church isn't 537 00:33:43,079 --> 00:33:46,640 it amazing that I go into one up the road 538 00:33:46,640 --> 00:33:52,839 here in Buddhistan every so often? And what is that when. 539 00:33:54,319 --> 00:33:57,359 Speaker 3: Most of what we understand in the world we don't 540 00:33:57,440 --> 00:34:01,359 really understand, you know, I don't understand the physics of 541 00:34:01,400 --> 00:34:03,279 how the world keeps together. And yet I know a 542 00:34:03,319 --> 00:34:06,240 lot of friends who are interested in maths and physics 543 00:34:06,240 --> 00:34:09,239 and science, and they have relatively well, they'd have a 544 00:34:09,239 --> 00:34:10,320 lot better ideas. 545 00:34:10,239 --> 00:34:10,719 Speaker 1: I think with that. 546 00:34:11,320 --> 00:34:13,480 Speaker 3: But then sometimes you can just intue it and you 547 00:34:13,519 --> 00:34:16,440 don't need to know an awful lot. And funny, I 548 00:34:16,480 --> 00:34:20,440 was sort of talk at the Oxford Literary Festival a 549 00:34:20,519 --> 00:34:23,840 few days ago, given by a chap called Alistair McGrath, 550 00:34:23,920 --> 00:34:29,599 who's quite a well known theologian comes scientist. He helped 551 00:34:29,599 --> 00:34:34,000 to Chair of Religion and Science in Oxford until two 552 00:34:34,079 --> 00:34:38,000 years ago. And he started off as an agnostic, then 553 00:34:38,000 --> 00:34:41,199 become an atheist, and then became Christian. So he's an 554 00:34:41,199 --> 00:34:45,440 elderly man now i'd say he's well, actually maybe he's not. 555 00:34:45,599 --> 00:34:48,440 Perhaps he's only in his very early seventies, but he's 556 00:34:48,440 --> 00:34:52,360 written several books, and one of the books which he's 557 00:34:52,679 --> 00:34:56,119 recently written is White. It's important to believe and he 558 00:34:56,239 --> 00:35:01,800 talked about that that cost me that the finite mind 559 00:35:01,880 --> 00:35:06,840 which we have as humans is by definition incapable of 560 00:35:07,000 --> 00:35:11,800 understanding infinity. And one of the great attributes, according to 561 00:35:12,239 --> 00:35:17,559 Thomas Aquinas, of God, is infinity. That God is beyond 562 00:35:17,719 --> 00:35:22,280 any measurements that we can calibrate with or understand. So 563 00:35:22,679 --> 00:35:24,559 I often think of that as a conservation. If I 564 00:35:24,599 --> 00:35:28,960 don't understand many of the contradictions in religious faith, well 565 00:35:29,000 --> 00:35:31,679 then I'll say, well, that's okay, It's not important for 566 00:35:31,719 --> 00:35:34,559 me to understand. The fact is I give my assent 567 00:35:35,039 --> 00:35:39,440 to what I do understand in the hope that the 568 00:35:39,440 --> 00:35:41,800 rest of it will fall into place, a little bit 569 00:35:41,840 --> 00:35:44,199 like when you give a promise to somebody where you 570 00:35:44,280 --> 00:35:46,599 make an oath, you can only do so within your 571 00:35:46,599 --> 00:35:50,320 own limitations, and then the rest you hope is going 572 00:35:50,360 --> 00:35:53,239 to be taken up, either by the other person or 573 00:35:53,280 --> 00:35:57,880 the other issue that you've made the oath to or 574 00:35:57,880 --> 00:35:59,519 the promise to father. 575 00:36:00,440 --> 00:36:05,400 Speaker 1: Do you believe that some people are just born evil? 576 00:36:06,360 --> 00:36:10,239 Speaker 3: No, I don't. Funnily enough, I'm thinking back to something 577 00:36:10,719 --> 00:36:14,000 my mother said many years ago, said, nobody's born to 578 00:36:14,039 --> 00:36:17,679 do evil in the world. You know, we're born as infants, 579 00:36:17,760 --> 00:36:20,480 but I think what is true is that all of 580 00:36:20,559 --> 00:36:25,679 us are. But the buzzword now is neurologically diverse. So 581 00:36:25,960 --> 00:36:29,960 there's no such thing as the standard issue run at 582 00:36:29,960 --> 00:36:33,320 the middle human being. It doesn't exist. We don't exist 583 00:36:33,400 --> 00:36:37,639 as that perfect person. So everybody who's born, just like 584 00:36:37,760 --> 00:36:39,519 in the same way that we all have a different 585 00:36:39,559 --> 00:36:42,719 ires or different fingerprint one from the other, in the 586 00:36:42,719 --> 00:36:46,159 same way we all have a different approach to our morality. 587 00:36:46,519 --> 00:36:48,840 But I think what's probably true is that there are 588 00:36:48,880 --> 00:36:53,599 some people who have such a conscience that they can 589 00:36:53,639 --> 00:36:59,760 see no wrong in stealing from another person, or doing 590 00:36:59,760 --> 00:37:04,119 an the person ill, or premeditating to harm that person 591 00:37:04,199 --> 00:37:06,880 or even to kill them. That is true, and that 592 00:37:07,119 --> 00:37:11,400 is in a sense. Again, no psychiatrists, psychologists that couldn't 593 00:37:11,400 --> 00:37:15,840 say this, but it's something neurologically. They're differently wired from 594 00:37:16,079 --> 00:37:19,360 the majority, because fortunately the majority of people don't think 595 00:37:19,360 --> 00:37:22,000 along those science. We just get along. You know. We 596 00:37:22,119 --> 00:37:26,840 all have homoseepions where you know, one hundred and sixty thousand, 597 00:37:27,679 --> 00:37:30,920 one hundred and sixty thousand years of or million years, 598 00:37:30,960 --> 00:37:35,440 I can't remember that, evolving from much more basic primates. 599 00:37:35,760 --> 00:37:42,719 So we are constantly refining our reasoning and our understanding. 600 00:37:43,480 --> 00:37:46,119 So in the answer to your question, what I'm trying 601 00:37:46,119 --> 00:37:48,719 to say is, no, I don't believe that somebody is 602 00:37:48,719 --> 00:37:53,480 born intrinsically evil or intrinsically good. I think we're born 603 00:37:53,679 --> 00:37:55,719 in such a way that we've got to use our 604 00:37:56,519 --> 00:38:00,679 talents and again stay away from those things to lure 605 00:38:00,760 --> 00:38:05,559 us to the side of evil or lurus to doing 606 00:38:05,599 --> 00:38:09,679 things which are harmful, which are psychopathic actions. You know 607 00:38:09,719 --> 00:38:13,639 that they're against what society accepts as the norm. So 608 00:38:13,679 --> 00:38:16,440 that brings you back into the whole area of what 609 00:38:16,559 --> 00:38:20,320 it is and how it is acceptable to do certain things. 610 00:38:20,679 --> 00:38:24,920 For example, I was in an archaeological dig a few 611 00:38:25,000 --> 00:38:27,079 years ago, about five or six years ago, a place 612 00:38:27,159 --> 00:38:33,760 called a Properte in Spain, and the archaeologist who is 613 00:38:33,840 --> 00:38:37,480 leading the seminar that we were attending was explaining that 614 00:38:37,840 --> 00:38:42,639 the cave which we just visited was a place where 615 00:38:44,079 --> 00:38:48,639 children were evidently sacrificed and humans ate flesh and it 616 00:38:48,639 --> 00:38:50,920 gives them all reason. I would need to go into 617 00:38:50,960 --> 00:38:54,519 that at the moment, but just think that was hundreds 618 00:38:54,519 --> 00:38:57,920 of thousands of years ago, but it's something that within 619 00:38:58,079 --> 00:39:01,519 parts of society even still exists as far as I 620 00:39:01,599 --> 00:39:06,280 understand today, but there's some parts of humanity which would 621 00:39:06,440 --> 00:39:13,760 accept cannibalism as you know, not morally reprehensible, and probably 622 00:39:13,800 --> 00:39:15,440 was much more so in the past, but it's kind 623 00:39:15,480 --> 00:39:18,920 of been pruned out of society or shaped away. 624 00:39:18,840 --> 00:39:21,199 Speaker 1: If I can, while I have you and you've been 625 00:39:21,199 --> 00:39:25,039 more more than generous with your time. Did you see 626 00:39:25,039 --> 00:39:26,159 that movie Conclave? 627 00:39:26,599 --> 00:39:28,920 Speaker 3: I did, Yes, I did. I thought the movie was good. 628 00:39:28,920 --> 00:39:30,920 It probably could have been a little bit better, and 629 00:39:30,960 --> 00:39:34,159 the ending was pretty silly, but the movie itself was 630 00:39:34,800 --> 00:39:36,199 very good, but the book was better. 631 00:39:36,239 --> 00:39:39,519 Speaker 1: Actually, you say that, you say the and we won't 632 00:39:39,519 --> 00:39:42,440 give away any spoilers, but you say the ending was silly. 633 00:39:42,559 --> 00:39:45,239 What was it? Was it? This? Would that be something 634 00:39:45,239 --> 00:39:49,559 that would just you wouldn't agree with? Or is it? 635 00:39:49,599 --> 00:39:51,559 Is it not a sign of the world we're living 636 00:39:51,559 --> 00:39:52,239 in at the moment? 637 00:39:52,599 --> 00:39:55,440 Speaker 3: No? No, no. What happens is with I've read most 638 00:39:55,519 --> 00:39:58,760 proper parts of books and the all kinds of there 639 00:39:58,880 --> 00:40:02,039 they're fabulous as you and then just he runs out 640 00:40:02,039 --> 00:40:04,519 of interest or accounting to good end the story. 641 00:40:07,360 --> 00:40:10,280 Speaker 1: Yeah, let's just butcher the ending, yeah. 642 00:40:10,280 --> 00:40:20,559 Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, the dial of mode and then suddenly yeah, oh. 643 00:40:20,320 --> 00:40:23,599 Speaker 1: Dear, and folks, I really did have to butcher the 644 00:40:23,719 --> 00:40:27,400 end of that for reasons of time. My thanks of 645 00:40:27,480 --> 00:40:31,880 course to the Squire aka David McGlynn, to Kiran Fanning, 646 00:40:31,960 --> 00:40:35,599 the author of Haunted Ireland, and of course who you've 647 00:40:35,679 --> 00:40:39,760 just heard, father Michael Collins, for helping me put together. 648 00:40:40,320 --> 00:40:44,119 Wow this episode of Scary Eric, could you believe we're 649 00:40:44,119 --> 00:40:47,599 into thirteen episodes now? Next time you'll be joining us, 650 00:40:47,599 --> 00:40:50,639 I'll be talking to Bertie Brosnan, who has compiled a 651 00:40:50,800 --> 00:40:55,119 history of the Battle of Clontarfe. What that says you, Well, 652 00:40:55,159 --> 00:40:58,840 it's basically when US Irish got rid of the Vikings, 653 00:40:59,119 --> 00:41:01,960 as we got rid of many other invaders to come 654 00:41:02,000 --> 00:41:05,960 throughout the years, and also a battle of Avian sorts. 655 00:41:06,280 --> 00:41:09,320 Would you believe there was an honest to goodness true 656 00:41:09,719 --> 00:41:13,880 battle of the birds in Cork in the sixteen hundreds 657 00:41:14,039 --> 00:41:18,679 They actually massacred each other. Two different flocks of birds gathered, 658 00:41:18,960 --> 00:41:22,199 it's over the days and then just went into battle. 659 00:41:22,440 --> 00:41:25,800 It's fascinating stuff. So do join me, Mark Manning next 660 00:41:25,840 --> 00:41:33,360 time around on your Scary Era. Scary Era. Goodbye, take 661 00:41:33,400 --> 00:41:34,840 care because I care