WEBVTT 1 00:00:05.120 --> 00:00:06.400 Oh you he is bote. 2 00:00:06.960 --> 00:00:08.000 It's show tied. 3 00:00:08.679 --> 00:00:10.599 People say good money to see this movie. 4 00:00:10.919 --> 00:00:13.560 When they go out to a theater, they want cold sodas, 5 00:00:13.880 --> 00:00:17.239 hot popcorn, and no monsters in the protection booths. 6 00:00:17.359 --> 00:00:19.199 Everyone pretend podcasting isn't boring. 7 00:00:20.239 --> 00:00:46.439 Got it off. The curses we inherit are not our fault. 8 00:00:47.159 --> 00:00:54.359 I brought you up. I swear to God it was real. Nick. 9 00:00:56.920 --> 00:00:59.280 I keep coming back for you and you trying to 10 00:00:59.399 --> 00:01:04.840 leave me. Do you know how much that hurts? 11 00:01:05.359 --> 00:01:09.319 What we let them become is our responsibility. 12 00:01:14.000 --> 00:01:16.480 Hey, folks, welcome to a special episode of The Projection Booth. 13 00:01:16.480 --> 00:01:19.040 I'm your host, Mike White. On this episode, I am 14 00:01:19.079 --> 00:01:22.280 talking with Tim Reriedle. He is the director and writer 15 00:01:22.400 --> 00:01:26.200 of the new film Ancestral Beasts, which just had its 16 00:01:26.239 --> 00:01:29.480 premiere at the Fantasia Film Festival. It is a very 17 00:01:29.560 --> 00:01:33.079 spooky story that was shot in Manitoba. Had a great 18 00:01:33.120 --> 00:01:34.760 time talking with Tim, and I hope you have a 19 00:01:34.760 --> 00:01:38.560 great time listening to this interview. Enjoy where'd you grow 20 00:01:38.640 --> 00:01:41.040 up and what's your backstor how'd you get into making movies? 21 00:01:41.920 --> 00:01:45.120 I grew up in the center of Canada, just north 22 00:01:45.159 --> 00:01:49.120 of Minneapolis, in Winnipeg, or around Winnipeg area. I spent 23 00:01:49.200 --> 00:01:51.640 a lot of time growing up in a rural area too. 24 00:01:52.439 --> 00:01:55.000 Around there. It's the homeland of my nation, the Red 25 00:01:55.079 --> 00:01:57.680 River may Tea. One hundred and fifty years ago my 26 00:01:57.760 --> 00:02:01.239 people were and my family was kicked out of there violently, 27 00:02:01.400 --> 00:02:04.000 and my family just kept coming back, kept coming back. 28 00:02:04.040 --> 00:02:06.159 A lot of my people spread all over Canada and 29 00:02:06.200 --> 00:02:08.759 the United States and all over the world, but not 30 00:02:08.919 --> 00:02:12.599 my family. So I ended up growing up exactly at 31 00:02:12.639 --> 00:02:16.879 the heart of where my people started. And then about 32 00:02:17.360 --> 00:02:20.400 two thousand and six, I left one peg and I 33 00:02:20.439 --> 00:02:25.120 started pursuing career opportunities outside of there and worked in 34 00:02:25.280 --> 00:02:27.120 making a lot of TV commercials, and I worked a 35 00:02:27.120 --> 00:02:30.520 lot in documentary, And yeah, it was only maybe the 36 00:02:30.520 --> 00:02:35.080 past five six years I returned to doing narrative films 37 00:02:35.639 --> 00:02:39.680 because they I found that nertive films give me the 38 00:02:39.680 --> 00:02:43.360 ability to do things and access audiences in a way 39 00:02:43.400 --> 00:02:48.680 that documentaries struggle. So documentaries you typically communicate to their head, 40 00:02:49.240 --> 00:02:52.240 the audience's head, the brains, and hopefully trickles down to 41 00:02:52.319 --> 00:02:56.719 their hearts the best ones do. But with narrative films, 42 00:02:56.919 --> 00:02:58.960 you can start with the heart and hope that trickles 43 00:02:59.000 --> 00:03:01.360 up to their brains and they start thinking, why do 44 00:03:01.400 --> 00:03:04.560 I feel this way? That's how that started. But my 45 00:03:04.759 --> 00:03:06.919 storytelling goes back to when I was a little kid 46 00:03:06.960 --> 00:03:08.360 growing up. I'd spend a lot of time in the 47 00:03:08.360 --> 00:03:11.240 country at my grandma's house, and I was like three 48 00:03:11.319 --> 00:03:15.280 four years old, and I would tell her stories about 49 00:03:15.319 --> 00:03:17.840 how there are bears outside and they can smell that 50 00:03:17.879 --> 00:03:20.800 there's a child in the house, and that they get 51 00:03:20.840 --> 00:03:22.960 hungry because they like the taste of child, and they 52 00:03:22.960 --> 00:03:25.159 know there's only an old lady there to protect the children, 53 00:03:25.159 --> 00:03:27.319 and they're stronger than an old lady. And my grandma 54 00:03:27.319 --> 00:03:29.319 would just get driven nuts by my stories on baking 55 00:03:29.319 --> 00:03:31.840 me please stop, stop, stop, And for a three or 56 00:03:31.840 --> 00:03:36.840 four year old, the amount of power that demonstrates is incredible. 57 00:03:36.879 --> 00:03:39.159 It's overwhelming because I think, well, I had this, just 58 00:03:39.159 --> 00:03:41.439 this idea, and it came out of my mouth and 59 00:03:41.479 --> 00:03:43.599 once it's my grandma's ears and into her brain and 60 00:03:43.680 --> 00:03:46.199 freaked her out, as if the bear was really here. 61 00:03:46.319 --> 00:03:48.639 I didn't conjure a bear. I'm not a bear, but 62 00:03:48.719 --> 00:03:50.719 she was reacting as though the bear was with us 63 00:03:50.759 --> 00:03:54.800 in the room. So that was my first taste of storytelling. 64 00:03:55.000 --> 00:03:57.599 And been into it ever since. 65 00:03:58.400 --> 00:04:01.639 There's so many ways to tell story, But why film. 66 00:04:01.840 --> 00:04:05.319 I've told stories in many different ways. Yeah, starting out, 67 00:04:05.319 --> 00:04:08.680 even I would do I'd record on audio cassettes with 68 00:04:08.680 --> 00:04:12.080 my cousin and we record bits of Indiana Jones and 69 00:04:12.080 --> 00:04:15.080 The Last Crusade off the VHS player or Back to 70 00:04:15.120 --> 00:04:18.639 the Future was a favorite of ours, record elements of that, 71 00:04:18.639 --> 00:04:21.000 then put ourselves in the movie and rewrite the movie 72 00:04:21.040 --> 00:04:25.040 with us in it. So I definitely use the audio form. 73 00:04:25.439 --> 00:04:27.560 I tried my best at Troy, and I'm an okay jar, 74 00:04:27.680 --> 00:04:31.199 but there are many people better than me. For illustration. 75 00:04:32.120 --> 00:04:34.519 I played in music for a long time and it 76 00:04:34.639 --> 00:04:37.399 was pretty successful at that. But for me, film always 77 00:04:37.439 --> 00:04:40.480 felt like the right format for me because it blended 78 00:04:40.639 --> 00:04:44.360 so much of what I love, so many different media 79 00:04:44.399 --> 00:04:46.959 types with visual and of course the audio, but even 80 00:04:47.000 --> 00:04:48.959 deeper than that, when you think of like illustration for 81 00:04:49.120 --> 00:04:52.560 video and planning shots and even how like an angle 82 00:04:52.560 --> 00:04:55.079 of a shot can change how person feels about the shot, 83 00:04:55.120 --> 00:04:57.199 or the lighting can change how person feels about the shot. 84 00:04:57.240 --> 00:05:01.399 There's so many tools available in film that it just 85 00:05:01.639 --> 00:05:05.000 it's like a buffet for me for storytelling. Tell me 86 00:05:05.040 --> 00:05:05.519 a little bit. 87 00:05:05.480 --> 00:05:07.920 About Eddie the Echo doog unleashed. 88 00:05:08.800 --> 00:05:11.519 So Eddie was a star surf and dog who came 89 00:05:11.519 --> 00:05:16.079 for the planet Checha Chihuahua to teach children about science, nature, 90 00:05:16.279 --> 00:05:20.480 and ecology. It was a cartoon show that I got 91 00:05:20.480 --> 00:05:23.759 my start on. I was about twelve years old, and 92 00:05:23.800 --> 00:05:28.000 my friend was part of a student advisor board to 93 00:05:28.000 --> 00:05:31.680 build this kid's cartoon character. Now I grew up really 94 00:05:31.759 --> 00:05:34.519 lower middle class. Nobody was asking me to be a 95 00:05:34.560 --> 00:05:37.920 part of a student advisory board. But I hustled my 96 00:05:37.959 --> 00:05:40.439 way in by going through the white pages to look 97 00:05:40.519 --> 00:05:43.199 up anything I could figure out from my friend of 98 00:05:43.240 --> 00:05:46.399 what this company was about in this TV series, because 99 00:05:46.399 --> 00:05:48.439 I wanted to be a part of it, and so 100 00:05:48.480 --> 00:05:50.920 I called maybe one hundred phone numbers until I finally 101 00:05:50.920 --> 00:05:53.240 found a person and the owner, and she was so 102 00:05:53.319 --> 00:05:56.720 impressed by my hustle that she was like, yeah, come 103 00:05:56.759 --> 00:05:59.759 on over, kid. And so when I showed up to 104 00:05:59.800 --> 00:06:03.160 this advisory board, it wasn't exactly what I've thought it was. 105 00:06:03.920 --> 00:06:06.319 All the other kids came from very affluent families and 106 00:06:06.360 --> 00:06:08.560 the parents a lot of their parents had helped fund 107 00:06:08.600 --> 00:06:11.079 this project, which I think was part of the design 108 00:06:11.079 --> 00:06:14.399 of this advisory board. I'm just speculating. This isn't necessarily 109 00:06:14.480 --> 00:06:20.279 fact for libel purposes. But I definitely wasn't that kid 110 00:06:20.399 --> 00:06:23.079 that had parents who could even afford to put gas 111 00:06:23.079 --> 00:06:26.079 in the car from week to week, let alone invest 112 00:06:26.120 --> 00:06:30.040 in kids' cartoon shows. So the way I tried to 113 00:06:30.079 --> 00:06:35.079 hang around was by outworking everybody and myself just delivering 114 00:06:35.120 --> 00:06:38.600 a hundred times worth of value than people could supply 115 00:06:38.759 --> 00:06:41.560 in money. And I hung in there. And then when 116 00:06:41.560 --> 00:06:43.319 I went to university, they said, hey, we'll give you 117 00:06:43.360 --> 00:06:45.800 a part time job writing for this show, and if 118 00:06:45.800 --> 00:06:48.839 you do well out of university, we'll see what happens. 119 00:06:48.920 --> 00:06:52.480 So I ended up writing the show. I was a 120 00:06:52.519 --> 00:06:56.399 director on many of the episodes, became the showrunner eventually, 121 00:06:56.600 --> 00:06:58.920 and I was also the voice of the cartoon dog. 122 00:07:00.079 --> 00:07:00.240 Yeah. 123 00:07:00.279 --> 00:07:01.959 I even wrote some of the music for that show. 124 00:07:02.160 --> 00:07:03.360 So that's Edd of the Eco Dog. 125 00:07:04.120 --> 00:07:06.199 And tell me a little bit about The Jackstones. I'm 126 00:07:06.199 --> 00:07:07.560 curious about that one as well. 127 00:07:08.240 --> 00:07:10.879 Okay, so The Jackstones is a documentary A shot for 128 00:07:11.800 --> 00:07:14.279 I convinced a charity to stop telling stories the way 129 00:07:14.279 --> 00:07:16.800 that their time stories, which was like advertisements for the charity, 130 00:07:17.040 --> 00:07:19.839 and I said, let the good work just be the 131 00:07:20.160 --> 00:07:22.920 advertisement for your charity. Keep your name off of it 132 00:07:23.000 --> 00:07:26.399 to show the success and people will find you and 133 00:07:26.560 --> 00:07:30.519 a group within that charity who believed in the project. 134 00:07:30.920 --> 00:07:34.000 Like Rob Garcia was my executive producer. He fought to 135 00:07:34.040 --> 00:07:36.120 get I think shoestring budget, but it was enough to 136 00:07:36.120 --> 00:07:39.040 get us to fly over to the Philippines. And the 137 00:07:39.079 --> 00:07:41.439 story we thought we were getting there was gonna be 138 00:07:41.480 --> 00:07:44.120 this motorcycle driving grandma who had a shotgun that she 139 00:07:44.199 --> 00:07:47.759 was chasing away poachers. Thought that's a cool story. But 140 00:07:47.839 --> 00:07:51.240 what we ended up finding there she didn't ride her 141 00:07:51.279 --> 00:07:55.879 motorcycle anymore. They took away her shotgun, and now the 142 00:07:55.959 --> 00:08:00.199 locals were dealing with poachers from a political standpoint. So 143 00:08:01.079 --> 00:08:05.040 instead of fabricating the story we needed to get, just 144 00:08:05.079 --> 00:08:08.160 decided let's just keep our ears and hearts open and 145 00:08:08.160 --> 00:08:10.720 see what happens, see what story comes to us. Because 146 00:08:11.519 --> 00:08:13.439 I'm a bit of a stickler when it comes to 147 00:08:13.639 --> 00:08:17.839 integrity and documentaries, I won't force anything. If I end 148 00:08:17.920 --> 00:08:20.879 up with the documentary that I intended to make, I'm 149 00:08:20.879 --> 00:08:23.160 not listening properly and I'm not doing my job properly. 150 00:08:23.240 --> 00:08:25.680 My documentary in the ents be probably different than what 151 00:08:25.800 --> 00:08:29.040 a clan going in. Plus, I believe that people in 152 00:08:29.040 --> 00:08:31.759 front of the camera should be represented by the people 153 00:08:31.759 --> 00:08:34.279 behind the camera as well. And I'm not Filipino. Rob's 154 00:08:34.279 --> 00:08:37.039 actually Filipino, but he was born in Canada. So we 155 00:08:37.159 --> 00:08:40.559 ended up hiring a bunch of locals, people who weren't 156 00:08:40.559 --> 00:08:43.519 even ever some of them were. There's an incredible film 157 00:08:43.600 --> 00:08:46.440 community in the Philippines, so we had some aces there, 158 00:08:46.799 --> 00:08:48.840 but we trained a lot of people from the village 159 00:08:49.320 --> 00:08:52.240 how to be a film crew, and so they found 160 00:08:52.240 --> 00:08:55.240 the story for us, and we just kept following the story. 161 00:08:55.240 --> 00:08:58.600 And what we found was political corruption and an un 162 00:08:58.679 --> 00:09:03.960 underdog of this village who ended up getting going up 163 00:09:04.000 --> 00:09:07.320 against the government to fight the corruption and to save 164 00:09:07.440 --> 00:09:11.440 the viability of their fishing village. And they're still thriving 165 00:09:11.519 --> 00:09:13.840 to the stay. So that's the story we ended up 166 00:09:13.879 --> 00:09:17.440 capturing on film. The people who invested or who paid 167 00:09:17.440 --> 00:09:19.159 for the film to get made expected us to come 168 00:09:19.200 --> 00:09:22.080 back with this awesome documentary about a motorcycle ride and 169 00:09:22.120 --> 00:09:25.799 grammar with a shotgun, and we came back with a 170 00:09:25.840 --> 00:09:31.159 government intrigue corruptions story about fishing rights. But it was 171 00:09:31.240 --> 00:09:34.559 really well received by the right communities and won a 172 00:09:34.600 --> 00:09:38.519 bunch of awards in the film festival circuit and helped 173 00:09:39.000 --> 00:09:42.240 raise a lot of awareness and money for these types 174 00:09:42.240 --> 00:09:43.080 of programs. 175 00:09:43.639 --> 00:09:45.360 One of the reasons why I was asking is because 176 00:09:45.360 --> 00:09:48.840 it feels like, look at your CV that you did 177 00:09:48.879 --> 00:09:51.639 a kind of a rough draft of that before you 178 00:09:51.720 --> 00:09:53.399 did the final project. 179 00:09:53.679 --> 00:09:57.039 Is that true? Yeah? So another one of the producers 180 00:09:57.039 --> 00:10:00.320 behind the project, Dave Skulis, He's a very innovative guid 181 00:10:00.360 --> 00:10:03.279 and was open to anything, but we had limited ability 182 00:10:03.320 --> 00:10:06.039 to explore the full story. We had maybe one day 183 00:10:06.159 --> 00:10:08.960 to shoot, one or two days to shoot, So while 184 00:10:08.960 --> 00:10:12.399 we were in the Philippines doing another thing for like 185 00:10:12.440 --> 00:10:17.240 a TV comercial type project, we ended up squeezing into 186 00:10:17.320 --> 00:10:20.000 production days to just go and see what the story 187 00:10:20.080 --> 00:10:23.440 might be and see what was happening around there. And 188 00:10:23.440 --> 00:10:27.200 because Dave wanted to go scuba diving. He loves scuba diving, 189 00:10:27.240 --> 00:10:31.039 so I think that also helped Dave convince Dave to 190 00:10:31.120 --> 00:10:33.759 let us go there for two days, and so we 191 00:10:33.840 --> 00:10:35.879 ended up scouting things out, meeting the people, and we 192 00:10:35.919 --> 00:10:38.879 got a very very very bare bones story of how 193 00:10:39.360 --> 00:10:44.000 the coral reef had gone away because of pollution and things, 194 00:10:44.159 --> 00:10:47.120 and the locals found a way to revitalize the coral reef. 195 00:10:47.440 --> 00:10:49.120 So that was the story we started telling, but it 196 00:10:49.120 --> 00:10:51.120 was a bunch of interviews with talking heads and stuff. 197 00:10:51.519 --> 00:10:54.720 What we didn't realize at the time was that because 198 00:10:54.759 --> 00:10:58.240 the coral reef was revitalized and brought back more fish, 199 00:10:58.679 --> 00:11:00.879 more fish meant more money for them, which was great, 200 00:11:00.919 --> 00:11:03.080 but more money for the community meant more problems because 201 00:11:03.120 --> 00:11:05.320 now sharks were in the water and they wanted to 202 00:11:05.360 --> 00:11:07.320 get a little taste of that money that was coming in. 203 00:11:07.399 --> 00:11:10.679 So the community ended up not being better off for 204 00:11:11.200 --> 00:11:13.720 everything that was happening. So that's the story we ended 205 00:11:13.799 --> 00:11:16.519 up getting in the full feature length documentary, but we 206 00:11:16.559 --> 00:11:18.240 didn't know at the time that's what we were going 207 00:11:18.320 --> 00:11:18.679 to get. 208 00:11:19.440 --> 00:11:21.559 You also did a proof of concept for this film, 209 00:11:21.600 --> 00:11:23.039 and you tell me how that came about. 210 00:11:23.879 --> 00:11:26.000 Yeah, the proof of concept of this film was because 211 00:11:26.720 --> 00:11:30.679 everybody loved my script for Ancestral Beasts. They said, you're 212 00:11:30.720 --> 00:11:36.360 a documentary guy. You can't do narrative, let alone horror. 213 00:11:37.200 --> 00:11:40.799 And I grew up on horror. I've seen real horror 214 00:11:40.919 --> 00:11:44.960 across the world and understand the feelings of vulnerability. I 215 00:11:45.000 --> 00:11:47.440 grew up in it's in a house with chaos or 216 00:11:47.519 --> 00:11:51.799 I was craving protection that wasn't always there. So I'm 217 00:11:52.440 --> 00:11:56.360 very well acquainted with horror. So I ended up getting 218 00:11:56.440 --> 00:11:58.679 some money together to do a proof of concept to 219 00:11:58.720 --> 00:12:03.080 prove that, yes, I am equipped to direct this film 220 00:12:03.120 --> 00:12:06.480 that's so personal to me and my loved experience, and 221 00:12:06.519 --> 00:12:08.039 it worked out. Fortunately. 222 00:12:08.799 --> 00:12:10.840 Did that have something to do with con. 223 00:12:11.360 --> 00:12:14.919 Yeah, so it did. I made this proof of concept 224 00:12:14.960 --> 00:12:18.200 and my goal, my highest goal, would have been if 225 00:12:18.240 --> 00:12:21.000 this proof of concept would have got screened at the 226 00:12:21.080 --> 00:12:25.559 BANF Media World Conference. It's international conference where a lot 227 00:12:25.600 --> 00:12:28.440 of the TV producers in the world gather to see 228 00:12:28.759 --> 00:12:32.440 Canada and the world's offerings for television for the upcoming year. 229 00:12:33.080 --> 00:12:35.399 And so they have a special Indigenous Screen Summit and 230 00:12:35.399 --> 00:12:37.440 I attended that in twenty twenty four and I was 231 00:12:37.480 --> 00:12:41.000 blown away by the quality of Indigenous storytelling that had 232 00:12:41.039 --> 00:12:44.879 been happening. It was quite the inspiration for me to 233 00:12:46.000 --> 00:12:48.120 be bold enough to try to tell my own story. 234 00:12:48.519 --> 00:12:50.639 So I thought, if this proof of concept could get 235 00:12:50.639 --> 00:12:53.320 shown at the twenty twenty five Indigenous Screen Summit and 236 00:12:53.360 --> 00:12:56.480 I can pitch this project, that would be the dream. 237 00:12:56.480 --> 00:12:59.759 And oh my goodness, maybe, just maybe it'll get Somebody's 238 00:12:59.759 --> 00:13:02.840 at ten and then I sent it around to a 239 00:13:02.840 --> 00:13:04.960 bunch of people a bunch of places, and had a 240 00:13:05.000 --> 00:13:09.159 lot of conversations and within I shot it in January, 241 00:13:09.759 --> 00:13:13.519 and by February March, somewhere around there, I get an 242 00:13:13.559 --> 00:13:18.320 email from the Frontiers, people who have their platform at 243 00:13:18.320 --> 00:13:20.559 the can Film Festival during the can Film Fest, when 244 00:13:20.559 --> 00:13:22.919 they asked me if I wanted to screen my proof 245 00:13:22.960 --> 00:13:26.840 of concept during the can Film Festival, and I just 246 00:13:26.840 --> 00:13:28.840 couldn't believe it. I thought it was a joke. These 247 00:13:28.840 --> 00:13:31.399 things don't happen to me. I'm a person on the 248 00:13:31.440 --> 00:13:35.159 fringes of this film industry. I'm not an insider, but 249 00:13:35.320 --> 00:13:37.639 you don't say no to those kinds of opportunities. So 250 00:13:37.720 --> 00:13:40.159 I just said yes and tried to do my best, 251 00:13:40.200 --> 00:13:43.440 and then Variety magazines started covering it, and that opened 252 00:13:43.480 --> 00:13:49.639 up this whole other world of perception of success about 253 00:13:49.679 --> 00:13:52.759 the project, and so I just kept riding that wave. 254 00:13:52.879 --> 00:13:55.799 Unfortunately in Canada, because I wasn't making money off of 255 00:13:55.799 --> 00:13:58.320 any of this yet. But fortunately in Canada we have 256 00:13:58.360 --> 00:14:02.639 great government support systems, especially the Indigenous Screen Office, who 257 00:14:02.679 --> 00:14:06.720 helps pay for people like myself and mikers like myself 258 00:14:06.720 --> 00:14:09.960 to travel around to take on these opportunities. But wasn't 259 00:14:09.960 --> 00:14:12.080 for them, I wouldn't have been able to pay to 260 00:14:12.159 --> 00:14:15.480 fly to the can Film Festival and get an apartment 261 00:14:15.559 --> 00:14:18.159 or a hotel during the can Film Festival and survive 262 00:14:18.279 --> 00:14:22.039 and stuff. But thankfully I was able to do that 263 00:14:22.080 --> 00:14:24.080 with that support, and it's just opened up all these 264 00:14:24.159 --> 00:14:28.799 incredible doors and my whole career is a whole different 265 00:14:28.840 --> 00:14:32.519 trajectory as of today because of that little proof of 266 00:14:32.600 --> 00:14:35.559 concept and because of the support I got from these 267 00:14:35.559 --> 00:14:38.519 people who wanted to let me try to make the 268 00:14:38.519 --> 00:14:40.720 most of these opportunities and see where they go. And 269 00:14:41.120 --> 00:14:42.960 you and I are talking now just before the world 270 00:14:43.039 --> 00:14:46.039 premiere of the feature of It, one of the world's largest, 271 00:14:46.039 --> 00:14:49.360 most prestigious genre festivals. It's incredible. 272 00:14:50.120 --> 00:14:52.960 Now, the government of Canada hasn't always been so nice 273 00:14:53.000 --> 00:14:55.840 to Indigenous people. Tell me a little bit more about 274 00:14:55.919 --> 00:14:59.120 the sixty Scoop and how that kind of informs your 275 00:14:59.159 --> 00:14:59.799 main character. 276 00:15:00.840 --> 00:15:04.639 So the sixties Scoop was a program put in place 277 00:15:04.679 --> 00:15:08.639 by the Government of Canada thinking that many Indigenous families 278 00:15:08.639 --> 00:15:11.399 were ill equipped to care for their own children, so 279 00:15:11.440 --> 00:15:15.240 they would look for reasons to take the children away 280 00:15:15.480 --> 00:15:19.320 from the parents. And put them in white households, and 281 00:15:19.399 --> 00:15:23.320 so there are a lot of stories of what kind 282 00:15:23.320 --> 00:15:26.919 of abuse and loss of culture existed. And so I 283 00:15:26.960 --> 00:15:30.000 can speak firsthand that my mom and her sisters and 284 00:15:30.039 --> 00:15:33.200 brothers were sixty scoop kids, and my mom didn't get 285 00:15:33.240 --> 00:15:35.960 put into a good foster home. She was put in 286 00:15:36.000 --> 00:15:39.159 to some of the worst I'd ever heard of. And 287 00:15:39.159 --> 00:15:42.559 it's funny as a kid, you desensitized to it because 288 00:15:42.600 --> 00:15:44.320 it comes from your mom. You think that this is 289 00:15:44.360 --> 00:15:46.879 just basic stuff. So I used to do. I used 290 00:15:46.879 --> 00:15:50.080 did not really have much compassion for my mom. It 291 00:15:50.159 --> 00:15:53.320 was just like, oh God, she's flipping out again, and 292 00:15:53.360 --> 00:15:55.919 why is this great? Now I'm in trouble, or it's 293 00:15:55.960 --> 00:15:57.480 going to be a horrible time in the house for 294 00:15:57.480 --> 00:16:00.200 the next week. And so that's the effect that as 295 00:16:00.519 --> 00:16:04.840 on people, and the cascading effect of that of like 296 00:16:05.279 --> 00:16:07.960 my mom not having a support of it being recognized 297 00:16:08.159 --> 00:16:12.480 as a crime against a population of people. She was 298 00:16:12.519 --> 00:16:14.399 forced to deal with that all by herself, and then 299 00:16:14.519 --> 00:16:16.960 not even having your own kids compassion because there wasn't 300 00:16:17.039 --> 00:16:21.799 back then a word for sixty scoop or borderline personality disorder, 301 00:16:21.799 --> 00:16:24.240 which is what she was diagnosed with. Later on in life, 302 00:16:24.559 --> 00:16:28.399 so she got zero support over all that, even at home. 303 00:16:28.720 --> 00:16:31.399 And so it's only been in the past maybe decade 304 00:16:31.440 --> 00:16:34.679 that the government of Canadas start to recognize it and 305 00:16:34.799 --> 00:16:38.000 communication about it has start to spread, but it's still 306 00:16:38.080 --> 00:16:40.840 not something that people understand very well. And it's happened 307 00:16:40.840 --> 00:16:43.519 across the world. There's the Stolen Children in Australia, and 308 00:16:43.519 --> 00:16:45.480 I think New Zealand has a phrase for that too, 309 00:16:45.639 --> 00:16:47.720 But you look at any indigenous population in the world 310 00:16:47.759 --> 00:16:51.440 and there's probably a similar story. But yeah, for me, 311 00:16:51.639 --> 00:16:54.559 my mom passed away in the beginning of twenty twenty 312 00:16:54.720 --> 00:16:57.799 and I wanted to look back at my life and 313 00:16:57.879 --> 00:17:01.000 my relationship with her more compassionately, and so so I 314 00:17:01.039 --> 00:17:03.159 had to reframe things to realize that she wasn't just 315 00:17:03.200 --> 00:17:05.759 the perpetrator of chaos and stability in the house and 316 00:17:05.839 --> 00:17:10.400 in my life. This was actually happening to her, probably 317 00:17:10.400 --> 00:17:14.000 even worse than us in those moments. And so I 318 00:17:14.079 --> 00:17:16.680 ended up learning about borderline personality disorder. And with that 319 00:17:16.880 --> 00:17:19.240 is when you're a child and the people are supposed 320 00:17:19.279 --> 00:17:22.000 to protect you aren't available to protect you or don't 321 00:17:22.000 --> 00:17:25.319 protect you, you develop an inner protector inside of yourself 322 00:17:25.359 --> 00:17:27.160 and we all do it to certain degrees. I'm sure 323 00:17:27.200 --> 00:17:29.160 you've got something like that in your own life too, 324 00:17:29.599 --> 00:17:33.880 but with borderline personality disorder, the abuse is so severe 325 00:17:34.359 --> 00:17:38.400 that your protector is dysregulated and goes to extremes and 326 00:17:38.519 --> 00:17:41.559 sees many things as a slight or as that threat 327 00:17:41.799 --> 00:17:45.200 and lashes out and attacks, but also texts you as 328 00:17:45.200 --> 00:17:47.759 an individual as well. So once I understood that, I 329 00:17:47.799 --> 00:17:50.799 was like, oh shit, this was exactly my mom and 330 00:17:50.799 --> 00:17:52.480 what she was struggling with, and so I wanted to 331 00:17:52.519 --> 00:17:55.759 tell that story, and it wouldn't work as a documentary 332 00:17:56.160 --> 00:17:58.039 because to me in the household, it felt like there's 333 00:17:58.079 --> 00:18:00.240 a creature looking in the shadows, so you never know 334 00:18:00.279 --> 00:18:02.759 exactly what's going to trigger it to attack. And when 335 00:18:02.759 --> 00:18:05.039 I think about that and how that feels and how 336 00:18:05.039 --> 00:18:07.880 I want audiences to feel that way, it's a horror film, 337 00:18:08.279 --> 00:18:13.319 and the horror genre gives great opportunity to tell these 338 00:18:13.440 --> 00:18:18.480 complex emotional stories in a way that people can feel, 339 00:18:18.960 --> 00:18:20.440 so that they can better understand. 340 00:18:21.240 --> 00:18:24.079 Tell me a little bit more about how that informs 341 00:18:24.279 --> 00:18:28.960 the film itself, because I love when genering films actually 342 00:18:29.319 --> 00:18:31.359 have so much more meaning than just oh, there's a 343 00:18:31.359 --> 00:18:32.240 big scary monster. 344 00:18:33.079 --> 00:18:35.920 I approached this film Ancestral Beasts as though it was 345 00:18:35.920 --> 00:18:39.079 a documentary. I did a lot of research because I 346 00:18:39.119 --> 00:18:44.480 don't hold the exclusive rights to Indigenous intergenerational trauma, nor 347 00:18:44.519 --> 00:18:47.559 do I own the exclusive rights to severe mental health disorders. 348 00:18:47.839 --> 00:18:51.920 So I worked with a lot of different knowledge keepers 349 00:18:51.960 --> 00:18:55.880 and experts in mental health and my Indigenous elders and 350 00:18:55.920 --> 00:19:02.519 my community to understand, really understand what it is and 351 00:19:02.559 --> 00:19:07.079 how it affects us, and how it manifests in the 352 00:19:07.119 --> 00:19:10.319 world and in our daily lives, and what triggers it, 353 00:19:11.079 --> 00:19:13.440 what stigmas do we have to face, and how do 354 00:19:13.480 --> 00:19:16.440 we overcome them? And when I had that all sorted out, 355 00:19:17.119 --> 00:19:19.960 I laid it out as a timeline of ideas. And 356 00:19:20.039 --> 00:19:24.160 so this film is like my thesis that follows a plot, 357 00:19:24.200 --> 00:19:28.559 but each plot point is showing a different point where 358 00:19:28.640 --> 00:19:33.640 a person is trying hard to find healing, and what 359 00:19:33.680 --> 00:19:35.920 are the obstacles in the way of the healing, and 360 00:19:35.960 --> 00:19:38.759 which of them are internal and which of them are external, 361 00:19:38.759 --> 00:19:40.640 and who's putting these obstacles in the way, and who's 362 00:19:40.640 --> 00:19:44.720 helping them overcome them, and what's at risk. Ultimately, when 363 00:19:44.720 --> 00:19:48.759 I took that approach, I was able to then find 364 00:19:48.759 --> 00:19:51.519 a narrative thread that I could use my own lived 365 00:19:51.519 --> 00:19:54.559 experience and stores from my mom and other people within 366 00:19:54.640 --> 00:19:59.079 my community to weave through. So it was one coherence 367 00:20:00.079 --> 00:20:04.759 caricature arc. And then the beauty of the genre is 368 00:20:04.799 --> 00:20:10.359 that I could take an idea that's very internal, and 369 00:20:10.400 --> 00:20:14.640 I could depict it through horror tropes like the Old 370 00:20:15.039 --> 00:20:17.960 House in the woods, you know, and the family legacy 371 00:20:18.000 --> 00:20:21.519 of trauma and you know, things hiding in the shadows 372 00:20:21.559 --> 00:20:25.960 and supernatural creatures and intrigue and all those great horror 373 00:20:26.000 --> 00:20:29.599 tropes that have been really played out, but I could 374 00:20:29.640 --> 00:20:32.400 take them and provide something new because I thinly cover 375 00:20:33.359 --> 00:20:37.680 my plot with a horror story in tropes that people recognize, 376 00:20:38.240 --> 00:20:42.160 but it's anchored to something completely new in a novel 377 00:20:42.200 --> 00:20:47.200 way of showing a character arc play out. That's how 378 00:20:47.200 --> 00:20:49.759 I did it, and that was my intention all along. 379 00:20:50.119 --> 00:20:53.480 I wanted to tell about seventy percent of the story 380 00:20:53.480 --> 00:20:55.039 but make it look like I was telling one hundred 381 00:20:55.039 --> 00:20:57.039 percent of the story to the audience, so that the 382 00:20:57.079 --> 00:20:59.759 audience could offer thirty percent of the story themselves and 383 00:20:59.759 --> 00:21:02.440 make more personal and relatable to them. So I don't 384 00:21:02.480 --> 00:21:05.319 know about you and you were watching it, how what 385 00:21:05.359 --> 00:21:08.160 you could relate to or what assumptions that you made 386 00:21:08.240 --> 00:21:12.279 just subconsciously because of your own lived experience in this world. 387 00:21:12.880 --> 00:21:14.880 But I'm actually really interested in knowing that. But any 388 00:21:15.079 --> 00:21:17.400 to answer your question, that's how I went about putting 389 00:21:17.400 --> 00:21:20.880 the story together where a person could, on the surface 390 00:21:21.160 --> 00:21:23.839 make it sound like, oh, it's another horror film about trauma, 391 00:21:24.240 --> 00:21:27.759 and it's a cabin in the woods story. Yippie, We've 392 00:21:27.759 --> 00:21:30.559 seen this a million times. But that's the trick of it. 393 00:21:30.920 --> 00:21:33.400 You just barely have to scratch the surface, and there's 394 00:21:33.440 --> 00:21:34.640 so much more to it. 395 00:21:35.400 --> 00:21:36.920 Tell me about the making of it. How did it 396 00:21:36.920 --> 00:21:39.039 all come together for you? And how was it a 397 00:21:39.680 --> 00:21:44.000 fun experience? Because I've heard people describe making an independent 398 00:21:44.039 --> 00:21:45.279 film like waging a war. 399 00:21:46.400 --> 00:21:48.920 I always compared making a film an independent film to 400 00:21:49.000 --> 00:21:52.079 rolling a boulder up a mountain. Not to play on 401 00:21:52.200 --> 00:21:56.319