WEBVTT 1 00:00:02.799 --> 00:00:07.320 Well whiskey, come and fame, my pain, the money, my way. 2 00:00:08.080 --> 00:00:12.439 Why think alone when you can drink it all in 3 00:00:12.519 --> 00:00:17.440 with Ricochet's Three Whiskey Happy Hour. Join your bartenders, Steve Hayward, 4 00:00:17.640 --> 00:00:25.719 John You, and the International Woman of Mystery, Lucretia where 5 00:00:25.800 --> 00:00:26.600 the lapped it up? 6 00:00:26.640 --> 00:00:30.359 And David, ain't you easy on the show? Tap out? 7 00:00:30.600 --> 00:00:32.920 Agive me and let that wyloone. 8 00:00:33.759 --> 00:00:38.759 Welcome everybody to a globe spanning, worldwide edition of the 9 00:00:38.759 --> 00:00:43.320 Three Whiskey Happy Hour. Because we're not just located this 10 00:00:43.600 --> 00:00:50.679 weekend in California or wherever Lucretia hangs out. But today 11 00:00:50.719 --> 00:00:53.479 I think we have to inaugurate Steve Hayward's new title, 12 00:00:54.799 --> 00:01:01.039 the International Man of no Mystery. Because Steve, Steve. 13 00:01:01.200 --> 00:01:03.320 Where are you? Where are you? You are? 14 00:01:03.359 --> 00:01:06.040 You might be? This might be the farthest distance any 15 00:01:06.640 --> 00:01:10.840 member of the Three Whiskey Happy Hour has journeyed from civilization. 16 00:01:11.799 --> 00:01:13.239 Oh well, that might be right. I'm going to say 17 00:01:13.239 --> 00:01:15.200 not the farthest away. I mean, we did do several 18 00:01:15.200 --> 00:01:18.879 episodes from Budapest the last couple of years. I am boy, 19 00:01:18.920 --> 00:01:20.840 I'm a pretty remote spot though. I am in what 20 00:01:20.959 --> 00:01:24.319 passes for the highlands of Iceland. I'm in this tiny 21 00:01:24.319 --> 00:01:27.159 little hamlet that looks like the set of the Icelandic 22 00:01:27.239 --> 00:01:30.000 version of High Planes Drifter that turns out to be 23 00:01:30.040 --> 00:01:33.480 the highest settled, little tiny town in all of Iceland. 24 00:01:34.159 --> 00:01:37.599 It's really it looks ultimately like Mars from the Mars 25 00:01:37.760 --> 00:01:40.879 Rover or Nevada, except covered with moss and anyway, it's 26 00:01:41.120 --> 00:01:41.840 pretty interesting. 27 00:01:42.480 --> 00:01:44.840 And Steve like, isn't this like the second or third 28 00:01:44.879 --> 00:01:48.439 time you have gone back to visit your Viking slash 29 00:01:48.560 --> 00:01:52.879 Norwegian Scandinavian four bears? Why do you keep going back 30 00:01:52.879 --> 00:01:55.480 to these Baronic paces? 31 00:01:55.719 --> 00:02:01.280 He has no Viking four bears. My maiden name John 32 00:02:01.359 --> 00:02:04.000 is Norman, as in the Norman Conquest. 33 00:02:04.439 --> 00:02:09.120 No, I had no idea, Yes, although somebody needs no. Actually, 34 00:02:09.120 --> 00:02:13.560 that's that's actually a great title, Lucretia the Norman. It's like, right, 35 00:02:14.280 --> 00:02:17.719 you know, well Barth the Death Dealer or something. 36 00:02:20.000 --> 00:02:22.800 Well, yeah, I mean, by the way, we need to 37 00:02:22.840 --> 00:02:25.280 tell uh speaking of the Norman conquest, but we need 38 00:02:25.280 --> 00:02:28.800 to tell King Charles that England rests on the ancestral 39 00:02:28.879 --> 00:02:31.560 lands of the pre Normans. Whoever they were, right, was 40 00:02:31.599 --> 00:02:33.319 the Norman conquest England? 41 00:02:33.439 --> 00:02:33.599 Right? 42 00:02:34.000 --> 00:02:34.479 You saw that? 43 00:02:34.599 --> 00:02:34.680 Right? 44 00:02:34.800 --> 00:02:37.879 King Charles went to Canada this week and gave a 45 00:02:37.960 --> 00:02:41.159 land acknowledgment. I mean, what if you know, someone pointed 46 00:02:41.159 --> 00:02:43.800 out on Twitter, doesn't King Charles understand that his most 47 00:02:43.840 --> 00:02:47.560 fervent supporters in America are conservatives who like tradition and monarchy, 48 00:02:47.960 --> 00:02:50.560 and the people will be most defended by his never mind, 49 00:02:50.599 --> 00:02:51.719 it's it's I've never thought. 50 00:02:54.840 --> 00:02:57.840 Okay, So, Lucretia, you as Lucretia the Norman. I bet 51 00:02:57.879 --> 00:03:00.199 you don't even take credit for King Charles because or 52 00:03:00.199 --> 00:03:02.319 some carpetbagging German family. 53 00:03:02.400 --> 00:03:07.199 Right, yeah, exactly, anything after you know about ten sixty 54 00:03:07.280 --> 00:03:08.319 six doesn't count. 55 00:03:11.960 --> 00:03:14.120 So Lucretia, how are you doing? And what do you 56 00:03:14.159 --> 00:03:19.719 make of Steve's strange journeys up North north Way North? Well? 57 00:03:19.800 --> 00:03:21.599 I have to tell you so that this is going 58 00:03:21.639 --> 00:03:23.719 to be a bit obscure. Forgive me, but I got 59 00:03:23.719 --> 00:03:29.280 an email from a friend talking about that Atlantic article 60 00:03:29.319 --> 00:03:35.240 really quick that said the new DEI is conservatism and 61 00:03:35.280 --> 00:03:38.919 that you know, College's JOHNS Hopkins, I believe it was 62 00:03:39.039 --> 00:03:44.919 is looking to increase the intellectual diversity of its faculty 63 00:03:45.039 --> 00:03:49.520 by adding a couple of token conservatives, I guess to 64 00:03:49.560 --> 00:03:50.199 the faculty. 65 00:03:50.319 --> 00:03:52.639 So I didn't bother to it is so stupid. 66 00:03:52.719 --> 00:03:56.199 The whole point of DEI is that it was anything 67 00:03:56.400 --> 00:04:00.680 but intellectual diversity. But anyway, so this sends it to 68 00:04:00.680 --> 00:04:02.599 me and says Hopkins, Hopkins. 69 00:04:02.240 --> 00:04:02.840 Here we come. 70 00:04:03.240 --> 00:04:07.879 And I sent the quote that Steve had included in 71 00:04:07.919 --> 00:04:12.879 a sub stect the other day about feminist glaciology, and 72 00:04:12.919 --> 00:04:16.959 I said, oh, we could go back to this, because 73 00:04:17.279 --> 00:04:22.839 Steve had a wonderful little piece where he didn't he 74 00:04:22.879 --> 00:04:24.800 didn't even have to make a joke, he didn't have 75 00:04:24.879 --> 00:04:28.920 to be critical. He just let the stupidity of feminist 76 00:04:29.120 --> 00:04:32.680 glaciology speak for itself. Is that true, Steve? 77 00:04:33.040 --> 00:04:35.199 Yep, that's right. I mean, the worst thing you can 78 00:04:35.199 --> 00:04:38.240 do to these radical academics is give their work wider 79 00:04:38.240 --> 00:04:41.920 exposure because it's so absurd. I mean, it makes it 80 00:04:42.000 --> 00:04:46.600 clear that luna. Our universities are filled with lunatics, and 81 00:04:46.759 --> 00:04:49.399 they get published and they make the most noise. And 82 00:04:49.519 --> 00:04:51.639 that's the problem. I maybe we'll get to Harvard John 83 00:04:51.720 --> 00:04:54.279 but that's the problem. And I did read the whole 84 00:04:54.360 --> 00:04:56.839 article actually Cretia, but we'll postpone that to another time 85 00:04:56.839 --> 00:04:58.720 because I know several of the people mentioned in it. 86 00:04:59.160 --> 00:05:02.279 I've actually known it about the JOHNS Hoppin Initiative, which 87 00:05:02.279 --> 00:05:07.000 goes back several years. The president Daniels Ron Daniels, I think, 88 00:05:07.079 --> 00:05:09.839 said Daniels is the name of the president, and supposedly 89 00:05:09.879 --> 00:05:12.600 he was dismayed. Oh left out of that story is 90 00:05:12.879 --> 00:05:15.800 as I understand it, He's got a very large contribution, 91 00:05:16.399 --> 00:05:19.600 like you know, seven figures from somebody who said, look, 92 00:05:19.639 --> 00:05:23.240 you need more political diversity in your faculty, and Daniels said, 93 00:05:23.240 --> 00:05:26.399 I agree, and he had meetings apparently, you know, with 94 00:05:26.480 --> 00:05:28.800 people we know. I'm not going to mention specific names 95 00:05:28.879 --> 00:05:31.759 right now. A couple are mentioned in the articles, but 96 00:05:31.879 --> 00:05:33.800 several that we know in respect or not. But that 97 00:05:33.839 --> 00:05:37.199 was three four years ago and nothing has happened. So 98 00:05:37.319 --> 00:05:40.199 I think it's all a farce so far, and you know, 99 00:05:40.800 --> 00:05:41.639 more to be said later. 100 00:05:43.120 --> 00:05:45.720 Great, So why don't we actually, why don't we dive 101 00:05:45.759 --> 00:05:47.879 in with the Harvard News first, and then we'll talk 102 00:05:47.879 --> 00:05:51.680 about what everyone's talking about today, which is tariff's and 103 00:05:51.759 --> 00:05:54.360 the decision of the Quarter of International Trade to stop 104 00:05:54.720 --> 00:05:59.279 the Trump tarras. But first, the war with Harvard continues. 105 00:06:01.879 --> 00:06:04.920 The latest news this week just actually right before we 106 00:06:04.959 --> 00:06:09.560 started the podcast, news came out that a federal District 107 00:06:09.639 --> 00:06:16.720 judge in Boston, Massachusetts, has barred the Trump administration from 108 00:06:16.720 --> 00:06:19.000 its effort to I guess the way you explain it 109 00:06:19.040 --> 00:06:23.360 is to take away Harvard's right to give out visas 110 00:06:23.399 --> 00:06:27.680 to cross the border. And I think Harvard actually specifies 111 00:06:27.720 --> 00:06:30.040 that most of them have to go through Lucretia's backyard 112 00:06:30.079 --> 00:06:34.439 on the way to Cambridge, Massachusetts. So we'll want to 113 00:06:34.480 --> 00:06:39.639 hear from her about this. They wouldn't, but just the background. 114 00:06:39.720 --> 00:06:41.639 Just give the background, because I don't I give you 115 00:06:42.439 --> 00:06:45.480 for the Yeah, let me give the background, because I 116 00:06:45.480 --> 00:06:48.279 don't think we uh talked about on the podcast yet. 117 00:06:48.360 --> 00:06:50.920 But Lucretia probably works on this. I've worked on this 118 00:06:50.959 --> 00:06:55.120 at Berkeley. But people probably don't know that universities, A 119 00:06:55.120 --> 00:06:57.639 lot of universities have almost a proxy right from the 120 00:06:57.639 --> 00:07:00.800 federal government to give out visas to students that his 121 00:07:00.879 --> 00:07:06.279 visiting researchers. I would say not. The closest review by 122 00:07:06.319 --> 00:07:12.000 the Department of Homeland Security and the Trump administration took 123 00:07:12.000 --> 00:07:14.759 this away from Harvard, said Harvard's no longer allowed to 124 00:07:14.800 --> 00:07:18.800 give out these visas, effectively preventing Harvard from having any 125 00:07:18.839 --> 00:07:22.439 foreign students and researchers next year. And one of the 126 00:07:22.480 --> 00:07:25.639 things I was shocked to learn is that something like 127 00:07:25.759 --> 00:07:29.040 one quarter of the Harvard student body comes from abroad. 128 00:07:29.519 --> 00:07:32.399 One quarter of the Harvard not undergraduates, all students, a 129 00:07:32.439 --> 00:07:36.639 lot more a lot of graduate students. So that's one. 130 00:07:38.439 --> 00:07:42.360 Another thing that happened this week is that President Trump 131 00:07:43.199 --> 00:07:46.000 tweeted out that he was going to take away all 132 00:07:46.040 --> 00:07:48.680 of Harvard's grants, which he said were three billion dollars 133 00:07:48.680 --> 00:07:52.319 in amount, and then he toyed with the idea of 134 00:07:52.519 --> 00:07:57.759 sending them to vocational schools instead the money, causing a 135 00:07:57.800 --> 00:08:01.040 lot of discussion this week while Steve's been away. So Lucristiaan, 136 00:08:01.079 --> 00:08:04.000 let's start with you. What do you think about this 137 00:08:04.800 --> 00:08:09.120 continuing campaign against Harvard and these two battles, one overgiving 138 00:08:09.120 --> 00:08:12.240 student visas, one about taking away Harvard's research grants. 139 00:08:12.639 --> 00:08:14.680 So let me start with the first one, and let 140 00:08:14.759 --> 00:08:18.560 me say that at one point I was recruited by 141 00:08:18.560 --> 00:08:20.959 a certain agency to. 142 00:08:22.800 --> 00:08:23.519 How should I. 143 00:08:23.519 --> 00:08:30.759 Say this, keeping it very vague, try to discover which 144 00:08:30.920 --> 00:08:35.639 Chinese students were likely in Chinese graduate students were likely 145 00:08:35.679 --> 00:08:41.879 to be sending intellectual property, sensitive intellectual property back to China. 146 00:08:43.120 --> 00:08:46.360 Thinking that you know somebody who is sort of The 147 00:08:46.440 --> 00:08:49.399 last person you think of that would care do or 148 00:08:49.399 --> 00:08:51.320 anything about that or care it would be someone like me. 149 00:08:51.360 --> 00:08:54.279 But anyway, that's been a problem for a long time, 150 00:08:54.440 --> 00:08:56.960 and you said it yourself, John, they have not been 151 00:08:57.679 --> 00:09:04.559 nearly as careful or they haven't used any anywhere near 152 00:09:04.639 --> 00:09:08.000 the care they should about just letting students in. That's obvious, 153 00:09:08.360 --> 00:09:10.519 and the reaction to the fact that we're saying, hey, 154 00:09:10.519 --> 00:09:12.279 if you don't like America, if you're gonna come here 155 00:09:12.279 --> 00:09:14.840 and try to undermine American values, we don't want you here. 156 00:09:14.919 --> 00:09:16.759 Marco Rubio has been great about. 157 00:09:16.440 --> 00:09:20.879 That, right, But because there's been no care taken over 158 00:09:20.919 --> 00:09:23.639 the many years other than let's worry about the Chinese 159 00:09:23.679 --> 00:09:27.919 stealing our secrets and solve the problem after it's already unsolvable. 160 00:09:28.960 --> 00:09:32.000 The government's been terrible. Trump is trying to turn that around, 161 00:09:32.000 --> 00:09:34.159 and of course you know he's starting with Harvard. I 162 00:09:34.159 --> 00:09:37.279 do want a aside. It has nothing to do with 163 00:09:37.320 --> 00:09:41.399 the fact that Trump couldn't get into Harvard or Bear 164 00:09:41.519 --> 00:09:43.679 and couldn't get into Harvard. First of all, you get 165 00:09:43.679 --> 00:09:47.200 into Harvard if you are a legacy or until you know, 166 00:09:47.320 --> 00:09:50.480 very recently, if you are the right minority marginalized group. 167 00:09:50.519 --> 00:09:53.559 You certainly don't get into Harvard if you're a handsome 168 00:09:53.679 --> 00:09:57.879 Asian guy unless you're at least John's age and that. So, 169 00:09:58.080 --> 00:10:00.600 you know, there's all this nonsense, all this no right, 170 00:10:00.679 --> 00:10:03.480 one more little aside. Steve and I went to the 171 00:10:03.480 --> 00:10:07.840 same graduate school, and I actually left that graduate school 172 00:10:07.919 --> 00:10:12.360 because it went into essentially went into receivership. And one 173 00:10:12.360 --> 00:10:14.320 of the things that they were doing, John is they 174 00:10:14.320 --> 00:10:20.240 were paying for poor students like me with the money 175 00:10:20.279 --> 00:10:24.679 of the tuition money from rich Saudi Arabian princes and whatnot, 176 00:10:25.320 --> 00:10:28.639 and bringing in a lot of rich Saudi Arabians. 177 00:10:29.159 --> 00:10:30.720 Okay, that's great. 178 00:10:31.120 --> 00:10:34.480 Did get me through graduate school there, and then they 179 00:10:34.480 --> 00:10:36.759 weren't leaving. That became the first problem. And then it 180 00:10:36.799 --> 00:10:39.639 turned out that they were actually paying other poor graduate 181 00:10:39.679 --> 00:10:43.960 students like me. I didn't to write their dissertations because 182 00:10:43.960 --> 00:10:46.519 of course they were too stupid to do any of that. Anyway, 183 00:10:46.759 --> 00:10:49.960 the whole thing blew up. They shut the department is 184 00:10:50.000 --> 00:10:53.600 now gone. It's gone, and so this is not a 185 00:10:53.639 --> 00:10:57.559 new thing where you know, rich foreigners pay the tuition 186 00:10:57.679 --> 00:11:00.799 of poor people like me. I think it's great. I 187 00:11:00.840 --> 00:11:03.080 think it's absolutely wonderful. And I do want to point 188 00:11:03.080 --> 00:11:05.600 out to you guys before we got on, we talked 189 00:11:05.600 --> 00:11:09.399 about Alison Burrows, who was the Dutch. 190 00:11:09.279 --> 00:11:15.279 Judge judge judge the ruling against Harvard against Trump today. Right. 191 00:11:16.559 --> 00:11:19.720 Yes, she was also the judge who heard the Harvard 192 00:11:19.759 --> 00:11:23.879 case in the Students for Fair Admissions, uh and and 193 00:11:23.919 --> 00:11:25.679 of course decided in favor of Harvard. 194 00:11:25.679 --> 00:11:27.399 But I mentioned these guys. 195 00:11:27.039 --> 00:11:30.240 That she made a really first dy. It was done 196 00:11:30.279 --> 00:11:33.919 with no jury trial, but she made a really dumb ruling, 197 00:11:34.000 --> 00:11:37.759 which was that she wasn't going to allow to be 198 00:11:37.799 --> 00:11:41.200 put into evidence a number of emails that had gone 199 00:11:41.240 --> 00:11:43.679 back and forth between like the dean and the enrollment 200 00:11:43.720 --> 00:11:49.080 counselors whatever, making fun of Asian students, and she she 201 00:11:49.240 --> 00:11:51.559 didn't allow that to go into evidence in the trial. 202 00:11:51.600 --> 00:11:55.720 And then she said there's no evidence of discrimination against 203 00:11:55.840 --> 00:11:58.720 any Asian students at Harvard. And then of course it 204 00:11:58.840 --> 00:12:03.399 came out on appeal and made her look like an idiot, 205 00:12:03.440 --> 00:12:06.399 which she obviously is, but it didn't obviously hurt her career. 206 00:12:07.480 --> 00:12:11.039 Well, everyone knew that a district court judge from Boston, 207 00:12:11.120 --> 00:12:14.519 based in Boston was going to rule in favor of Harvard. Right, 208 00:12:14.519 --> 00:12:17.320 that was just a given, just a couple quick facts 209 00:12:17.360 --> 00:12:20.200 that are interesting to me. And in a speculation, I 210 00:12:20.240 --> 00:12:23.519 caught a note from Charles Murray who said a Harvard 211 00:12:23.519 --> 00:12:26.639 class of sixty five I think was Charles, and he 212 00:12:26.679 --> 00:12:29.279 looked at his entering class in nineteen sixty one or 213 00:12:29.320 --> 00:12:31.919 sixty whatever it was. He said it was ninety eight 214 00:12:31.919 --> 00:12:36.039 percent American in less than two percent foreign students. And 215 00:12:36.080 --> 00:12:40.039 as recently I saw somewhere else as nineteen ninety the 216 00:12:40.080 --> 00:12:43.080 student body at Harvard was only about ten percent foreign. 217 00:12:43.440 --> 00:12:45.399 So the fact that it's now twenty five percent for 218 00:12:46.200 --> 00:12:47.919 foreign and I think, by the way you hint, John, 219 00:12:47.919 --> 00:12:50.440 that this is probably skewed to the graduate program. So 220 00:12:51.240 --> 00:12:53.159 maybe it may be in some of those programs, you know, 221 00:12:53.279 --> 00:12:57.320 fifty percent foreign or more. I mentioned this once before 222 00:12:57.320 --> 00:12:59.399 in another context, but I think we may find it here. 223 00:13:00.240 --> 00:13:02.120 I think what you'll find is a lot of those 224 00:13:02.120 --> 00:13:07.120 people admitted are for you know, the bean counting purposes. 225 00:13:07.159 --> 00:13:09.960 People of color. They may be quite able, you know, 226 00:13:10.080 --> 00:13:13.440 Indians and you know, I mentioned once before, I think 227 00:13:13.440 --> 00:13:17.039 that I had a research assistant from Ghana. Young lady 228 00:13:17.120 --> 00:13:20.159 had been to Middlebury and she was really good. She 229 00:13:20.240 --> 00:13:22.279 ended up going on to Princeton for graduate school. And 230 00:13:22.320 --> 00:13:24.519 it turned out she was from a rich gun In family. 231 00:13:25.320 --> 00:13:28.960 She'd gone to you know, fancy boarding schools in Switzerland, right, 232 00:13:29.000 --> 00:13:31.200 so she's probably very able to do high level college 233 00:13:31.200 --> 00:13:34.679 work in America. And guess what that's that those universities 234 00:13:34.679 --> 00:13:37.559 gets to count them as black for their quota purposes. 235 00:13:38.279 --> 00:13:42.879 And some undergraduate colleges like Middlebury and Williams and elsewhere, 236 00:13:42.919 --> 00:13:45.879 this has become a complaint for the Black Lives Matters crowd. 237 00:13:46.399 --> 00:13:48.600 And of course the politicians do don't want to come 238 00:13:48.679 --> 00:13:52.480 anywhere near this controversy. But if you actually disaggregated the 239 00:13:52.519 --> 00:13:55.080 foreign students and compared them to the American student in 240 00:13:55.159 --> 00:13:57.200 Midies and so forth, I'll bet it would be yet 241 00:13:57.240 --> 00:13:59.320 one more embarrassment for our elite colleges. 242 00:14:01.399 --> 00:14:03.519 Christian, let me fill up on the second point. What 243 00:14:03.559 --> 00:14:08.000 do you think about President Trump cutting off all grants 244 00:14:08.120 --> 00:14:10.600 to Harvard? Can he do that? Is this actually a 245 00:14:10.600 --> 00:14:15.039 good idea? So Harvard's response and they hired two very 246 00:14:15.080 --> 00:14:18.720 well known Republican lawyers to represent them, including one Robert Hurr. 247 00:14:19.279 --> 00:14:23.200 Actually very clever, oh very clever. 248 00:14:23.320 --> 00:14:27.559 Very clever of Harvard to do that. You know, they 249 00:14:27.559 --> 00:14:30.879 say in the president of Harvard sent out blast emails saying, 250 00:14:31.320 --> 00:14:34.120 this is going to ruin our ability to do medical research. 251 00:14:34.159 --> 00:14:37.080 Look at all the amazing discoveries by Harvard that have 252 00:14:37.200 --> 00:14:41.600 lengthened human life spans and done such good for the world. Chretia, 253 00:14:41.679 --> 00:14:43.519 what do you think about So. 254 00:14:43.799 --> 00:14:47.080 That's a really interesting question, John, and kind of a 255 00:14:47.120 --> 00:14:49.360 bigger question. I was hoping we might get to discuss 256 00:14:49.399 --> 00:14:52.159 this week because I've seen it over and over Trump 257 00:14:52.200 --> 00:14:56.080 cutting off funds to NPR. We talked about it briefly 258 00:14:56.120 --> 00:15:02.320 when we talked about Trump deciding not to Trump's war 259 00:15:02.480 --> 00:15:08.159 on the law firms that had participated in prosecuting him 260 00:15:08.320 --> 00:15:13.679 before he became president. Again, I believe that you, if 261 00:15:13.919 --> 00:15:16.720 you're the president making those kinds of decisions, that you 262 00:15:16.840 --> 00:15:20.399 have to do so in a way that's fair. You 263 00:15:20.440 --> 00:15:23.799 couldn't just discriminate against Harvard for no reason and say 264 00:15:23.919 --> 00:15:25.960 my kid didn't get in, so you're not getting any money, 265 00:15:26.000 --> 00:15:31.799 but to say that you have that Harvard discriminates against Jews, 266 00:15:31.879 --> 00:15:35.960 et cetera, and has not taken steps as they've been 267 00:15:36.000 --> 00:15:40.840 asked to do to curb anti Semitism at Harvard. And 268 00:15:40.960 --> 00:15:44.200 if you don't do that, we will stop, we will 269 00:15:44.200 --> 00:15:48.080 stop federal money going to you in research grants. That's 270 00:15:48.159 --> 00:15:50.679 been done before. It just went the other way, right, 271 00:15:50.759 --> 00:15:55.679 it went the other way. Nobody questioned that the court could, 272 00:15:55.720 --> 00:15:58.879 for instance, excuse me, that the president could, for instance, 273 00:15:58.879 --> 00:16:04.639 an administration could say to I'll say Bob Jones University, 274 00:16:04.639 --> 00:16:07.440 but make up what they didn't do, which was if 275 00:16:07.440 --> 00:16:10.440 they discriminate against blacks and say we don't want any 276 00:16:10.480 --> 00:16:14.120 blacks in our university. Nobody would have even blinked an 277 00:16:14.159 --> 00:16:18.200 I if the administration at the time it said you're 278 00:16:18.200 --> 00:16:20.519 not getting any federal grants from us, then I mean 279 00:16:20.519 --> 00:16:20.919 they went. 280 00:16:20.919 --> 00:16:21.679 Much much further. 281 00:16:21.799 --> 00:16:27.320 No pelgrants, no student loans, etc. So what Trump is 282 00:16:27.399 --> 00:16:30.799 doing from a purely legal point of view is absolutely fine. 283 00:16:31.559 --> 00:16:35.120 It's the political fight that matters, right, and how he 284 00:16:35.159 --> 00:16:35.960 comes down on. 285 00:16:35.879 --> 00:16:40.360 That well stee So I think there's a great irony 286 00:16:40.399 --> 00:16:42.720 at work here if you go back in the record, 287 00:16:42.720 --> 00:16:45.200 as they say, to the late forties and early fifties, 288 00:16:46.000 --> 00:16:48.279 when you know Van ver Bush first set out our 289 00:16:48.360 --> 00:16:50.960 science strategy for the federal government and the involved spending 290 00:16:51.000 --> 00:16:55.759 research dollars through universities for science research right technical research, 291 00:16:56.399 --> 00:16:59.279 and then again with the Secondary Education Act whatever it 292 00:16:59.320 --> 00:17:01.799 was in nineteen five fifty eight, after the spot Nick crisis, Right, 293 00:17:01.840 --> 00:17:06.079 we need more scientists. Around those years, the almost all 294 00:17:06.160 --> 00:17:08.720 of the presidents of Ivy League colleges said, we're not 295 00:17:08.759 --> 00:17:12.079 sure this is a good idea because federal funding will 296 00:17:12.079 --> 00:17:15.640 come with federal strings and maybe political domination from Washington, 297 00:17:16.039 --> 00:17:17.640 so we're not sure that. But on the other hand, 298 00:17:17.640 --> 00:17:20.000 the money was just too lucrative and the purpose was 299 00:17:20.039 --> 00:17:24.200 seemed so straightforward and sensible, right, more scientists, more scientific research, 300 00:17:24.880 --> 00:17:26.640 that they succummed and went with it. So now all 301 00:17:26.680 --> 00:17:29.079 of a sudden, look where we are. I'll add one 302 00:17:29.079 --> 00:17:33.200 more thing here to bolster Lucreatia's point. Stephen Pinker, who 303 00:17:33.240 --> 00:17:36.759 is You know, he's some interesting guy. He's actually kind 304 00:17:36.759 --> 00:17:38.720 of a liberal, but he's descended from the left and 305 00:17:38.799 --> 00:17:41.200 resisted the left at Harvard. He had an article in 306 00:17:41.240 --> 00:17:43.039 The New York Times a few days ago saying this 307 00:17:43.240 --> 00:17:46.480 is terrible what Trump is doing. But then he spent 308 00:17:46.599 --> 00:17:48.720 like three or four paragraphs saying, but I want to 309 00:17:48.720 --> 00:17:51.440 remind you, over the last six seven years, I've been 310 00:17:51.480 --> 00:17:54.640 fighting wokeriy at Harvard, and I've been saying we need 311 00:17:54.640 --> 00:17:57.880 more intellectual diversity. I've been fighting against quotas, this, this, 312 00:17:57.960 --> 00:18:00.200 and this, And when he got to the end of 313 00:18:00.279 --> 00:18:03.400 his litany about how Harvard's imperfect, I thought, and yes, 314 00:18:03.519 --> 00:18:07.039 what good has all that done? What changes have been made? None? 315 00:18:07.720 --> 00:18:10.759 Harvard still gets an f from the Foundation for Individual 316 00:18:10.839 --> 00:18:14.160 Rights and Expression for being the worst campus in the 317 00:18:14.160 --> 00:18:17.200 country for free speech. And so the point is is 318 00:18:17.240 --> 00:18:21.079 that nothing is going to change until the universities get 319 00:18:21.079 --> 00:18:24.240 the metaphysical metaphorical equivalent of a two by four across 320 00:18:24.279 --> 00:18:26.680 the head. And that's what Trump is doing. I'm sure 321 00:18:26.680 --> 00:18:31.119 they're going to affect some useful medical research and other 322 00:18:31.200 --> 00:18:34.480 scientific research. I'm sure if this spreads. By the way, John, 323 00:18:34.559 --> 00:18:36.640 you know, some of the best students that I've met 324 00:18:36.640 --> 00:18:38.839 at Berkeley Law have been some of these Raeli students 325 00:18:39.079 --> 00:18:42.160 who come over in the LLLM program, right, And they're 326 00:18:42.240 --> 00:18:45.440 usually really good and really sensible and sound, and it'd 327 00:18:45.440 --> 00:18:48.240 be a shame if they're excluded from our universities. But 328 00:18:48.720 --> 00:18:51.519 things are so bad with the universities that I agree 329 00:18:51.559 --> 00:18:54.440 completely little Cretia that you know, the time for maximum 330 00:18:54.440 --> 00:18:59.319 pressure has arrived. And again the fact that the universities 331 00:18:59.359 --> 00:19:02.119 are fine the federal pressure when they agree with what 332 00:19:02.160 --> 00:19:04.480 the federal government wants him to do, so they really 333 00:19:04.519 --> 00:19:06.599 don't have much of a leg to stand on to complain. Now, 334 00:19:06.599 --> 00:19:07.279 it seems to me. 335 00:19:08.880 --> 00:19:12.640 So quick in question before we move on to Tariff's 336 00:19:13.240 --> 00:19:18.720 Lucretia's favorite subject, mind you, but what else could Trump do? 337 00:19:18.880 --> 00:19:21.000 So I both of you say this is part of 338 00:19:21.039 --> 00:19:26.599 a almost like a cultural fight between Trump and the 339 00:19:26.640 --> 00:19:30.759 groups in society he represents and higher education inc. Right, 340 00:19:31.400 --> 00:19:34.119 what else could Trump? Do? You know that Trump does 341 00:19:34.160 --> 00:19:37.240 seem to have Harvard and other universities on the back foot, 342 00:19:37.680 --> 00:19:40.039 but they are fighting. They are Harvard is fighting back, right, 343 00:19:40.079 --> 00:19:42.839 They've launched lawsuits, they've launched a I'm sure they're spending 344 00:19:42.839 --> 00:19:45.079 a lot of money on a big PR campaign. You're 345 00:19:45.119 --> 00:19:47.640 seeing Steve saying, you're seeing the effects and various you 346 00:19:47.680 --> 00:19:51.039 know where other students gonna go tapped me to Israeli students. 347 00:19:52.000 --> 00:19:54.559 What could Trump do next, Lucretia. 348 00:19:54.240 --> 00:19:59.640 Well, remember that he's gotten Congress to increase the tax 349 00:19:59.720 --> 00:20:04.839 on endowments or potentially, I mean, he's not doing that 350 00:20:04.920 --> 00:20:08.400 on his own, but Congress would have never have decided 351 00:20:08.480 --> 00:20:11.319 to do such a thing had Trump not pushed this 352 00:20:11.880 --> 00:20:17.000 taxing tuition I mean, it's really all a matter of 353 00:20:17.039 --> 00:20:22.079 going after going after Harvard from the point of view 354 00:20:22.119 --> 00:20:27.440 of legitimate exercises of federal power, not all presidential power. 355 00:20:27.519 --> 00:20:30.160 But you know, again getting Congress to do some of 356 00:20:30.200 --> 00:20:34.160 these things too. But Trump leading the way means that Congress, 357 00:20:34.200 --> 00:20:38.680 if Congress goes along with it, that does actually change 358 00:20:38.720 --> 00:20:41.920 the dynamic a little bit. I think that that Harvard 359 00:20:41.920 --> 00:20:44.799 will keep fighting. I saw on an article this morning, 360 00:20:44.799 --> 00:20:47.480 I think it was by Turley, Jonathan Turley, who said 361 00:20:47.519 --> 00:20:51.160 that this is a This is Trump is Grant and 362 00:20:51.319 --> 00:20:56.720 Harvard is the Confederacy, and basically Trump is likely even 363 00:20:56.759 --> 00:20:59.319 though he's likely to lose some just like Grant did. 364 00:21:00.079 --> 00:21:04.119 This is a war of attrition, and from that point 365 00:21:04.160 --> 00:21:08.119 of view, Trump has considerably more resources at his disposal 366 00:21:08.160 --> 00:21:08.920 than Harvard does. 367 00:21:10.720 --> 00:21:10.920 Uh. 368 00:21:11.599 --> 00:21:14.160 Indeed, I mean, what about what other what are errors 369 00:21:14.160 --> 00:21:16.680 are in the Trump quiver waiting to be well? 370 00:21:16.720 --> 00:21:19.640 I think, well, something that he's already doing apparently, but 371 00:21:19.640 --> 00:21:22.799 I think should be broadened is Trump has said we 372 00:21:22.839 --> 00:21:25.200 want to put a limit of fifteen percent on overhead 373 00:21:25.200 --> 00:21:27.599 for federal grants, which seems like reasonable fee to me, 374 00:21:27.640 --> 00:21:29.319 and so we know some are much higher than that. 375 00:21:29.519 --> 00:21:31.279 But I think it should be broadened and make an 376 00:21:31.359 --> 00:21:34.839 explicit war on administrative bloat. And I don't know what 377 00:21:34.880 --> 00:21:37.200 the legal grounds for that would be. I mean, my 378 00:21:37.240 --> 00:21:39.960 other thought is you price controls on tuition increases. I 379 00:21:40.000 --> 00:21:42.599 don't think the president has authority to do that, and 380 00:21:42.640 --> 00:21:44.519 it would require an Act of Congress. But I still 381 00:21:44.559 --> 00:21:48.359 think that again, some threats about the absolutely undisplicant and 382 00:21:48.480 --> 00:21:51.880 profligate spending of the universities ought to be a major target. 383 00:21:52.240 --> 00:21:53.599 And by the way, there is a tribute to the 384 00:21:53.599 --> 00:21:56.160 middle class. You know, it used to be that you 385 00:21:56.319 --> 00:21:59.880 could even you know, private university forty fifty years ago, 386 00:22:00.240 --> 00:22:01.960 if you worked hard at a summer job, you could 387 00:22:01.960 --> 00:22:04.279 pretty much pay your full year's tuition and room and board. 388 00:22:04.880 --> 00:22:07.200 Now it's not even remotely possible for someone who wants 389 00:22:07.240 --> 00:22:09.640 to do that, even with some financial aid. And that's 390 00:22:09.680 --> 00:22:12.519 the fault of the universities and the federal government subsidizing 391 00:22:13.160 --> 00:22:15.319 your student loans and things like that. So I think 392 00:22:15.359 --> 00:22:18.000 maximum pressure on the university is to cut their straight 393 00:22:18.119 --> 00:22:21.440 bloat and cut their costs. But Mitch Daniels has proved 394 00:22:21.440 --> 00:22:24.240 it's not hard to do. You know, Purdue froze their 395 00:22:24.279 --> 00:22:27.759 tuition what fifteen years ago now and hasn't raised it once. 396 00:22:28.200 --> 00:22:30.920 It's not hard to do, it's just the other collologists 397 00:22:30.920 --> 00:22:32.440 won't do it, so make them do it. 398 00:22:33.039 --> 00:22:37.279 Well, I would never underestimate the amount of money that 399 00:22:37.400 --> 00:22:41.720 is spent on administrative bloat, not all of which is DEI, 400 00:22:41.960 --> 00:22:44.200 but much of it is. And I just want to 401 00:22:44.200 --> 00:22:47.240