WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.120 --> 00:00:37.159 Oh trigger warn this podcast may include explicit content. 2 00:00:37.000 --> 00:00:39.000 That will take you out of your comfort zone and 3 00:00:39.119 --> 00:00:48.280 make you question reality. Listeners, question is advised. How do you, folks, 4 00:00:48.359 --> 00:00:51.200 Your host double J back here, coming at you live 5 00:00:51.439 --> 00:00:57.240 slash live in a deep rain delay from my studio 6 00:00:57.520 --> 00:01:04.879 slash RV dining room located directly inside America. Now, folks 7 00:01:04.920 --> 00:01:08.560 of interwebs, once again JJ Vance here, host of Operation 8 00:01:08.719 --> 00:01:14.000 GCD right there and perhaps more notably not the Vice President. 9 00:01:15.239 --> 00:01:18.159 So thanks for joining me here tonight, folks. I will 10 00:01:18.159 --> 00:01:22.280 be your pilot navigator for tonight's Shenanigan infused journey into 11 00:01:22.319 --> 00:01:26.879 the mind of this particular garbage can dude and not 12 00:01:26.959 --> 00:01:28.920 going a lot of you, folks of interwebs, got a 13 00:01:28.959 --> 00:01:32.079 real barn burner on deck for you all tonight in 14 00:01:32.159 --> 00:01:35.840 a cult and a or s O Terror review of 15 00:01:35.879 --> 00:01:40.599 the nineteen eighty one film Ghost Story. And if you 16 00:01:40.680 --> 00:01:42.840 folks of interwebs were like me and had not heard 17 00:01:42.879 --> 00:01:45.840 of this film, you know it is an interesting watch 18 00:01:45.879 --> 00:01:49.439 and hopefully you'll you'll reach that conclusion yourself after we 19 00:01:49.480 --> 00:01:53.000 discussed tonight's review. But it was the inspiration of tonight's 20 00:01:53.000 --> 00:01:56.719 guests that spawned this review because once again, I had 21 00:01:56.719 --> 00:01:59.319 not heard of this film, but tonight's guest John Mitchell, 22 00:02:00.319 --> 00:02:03.040 one of Tonight's guests, John Mitchell, and his blog over 23 00:02:03.120 --> 00:02:06.840 on Substack is highlighting a lot of these matters relative 24 00:02:06.879 --> 00:02:09.919 to the Sun of Sam and this particular one out 25 00:02:09.919 --> 00:02:12.000 of Peter straw books, that is the author of this 26 00:02:12.039 --> 00:02:14.960 story that was later adapted into a film. But this 27 00:02:15.000 --> 00:02:17.240 particular one ghost story I find interesting because it was 28 00:02:17.280 --> 00:02:21.199 written contemporaneously to the Son of Sam events in New 29 00:02:21.280 --> 00:02:23.759 York City back in with the arrest of Burke Whits 30 00:02:23.759 --> 00:02:26.080 in seventy seven, and Straw writes this book in seventy 31 00:02:26.120 --> 00:02:28.680 eight and is published in January of seventy nine, and 32 00:02:28.759 --> 00:02:32.039 seems like seems like Peter Straw was in the know, 33 00:02:32.159 --> 00:02:34.159 and a lot of these cult details in around that 34 00:02:34.199 --> 00:02:37.599 whole Sun of Sam process situation. And John's a great 35 00:02:37.639 --> 00:02:41.840 research for into these matters relative to Yonkers Coult activities 36 00:02:41.879 --> 00:02:45.479 in around New York City, specifically Westchester County, New York, 37 00:02:46.039 --> 00:02:49.159 the place I like to call a den of iniquity. 38 00:02:49.439 --> 00:02:53.240 But thanks for joining us here tonight to get a 39 00:02:53.240 --> 00:02:56.719 little GCD folks, and welcome our guest John Mitchell and 40 00:02:57.439 --> 00:03:00.960 Julia from Cosmic Peach. How y'all doing. Welcome Operation GCD. 41 00:03:01.639 --> 00:03:06.719 Welcome back. Not your first time, is it, Julia John 42 00:03:06.759 --> 00:03:08.599 greeting Sarah. Always great to have you back as well. 43 00:03:08.919 --> 00:03:10.520 Yeah, thanks for having me. It's good to be back. 44 00:03:11.560 --> 00:03:14.919 Absolutely yeah, thanks thanks for having me. Jj. I'm excited 45 00:03:14.919 --> 00:03:17.360 about this one for. 46 00:03:17.240 --> 00:03:19.919 Sure, me too. I really, you know, horror films are 47 00:03:19.960 --> 00:03:22.960 not my you know, not my favorite genre, but this one, 48 00:03:23.319 --> 00:03:26.280 given the esoteric understandings of a lot of the things, 49 00:03:26.520 --> 00:03:29.120 uh and uh, just a lot of the elements of 50 00:03:29.120 --> 00:03:31.159 the story, I found very interesting. So and it wasn't 51 00:03:31.479 --> 00:03:33.759 I had never heard of this film. So and we 52 00:03:33.800 --> 00:03:36.520 actually had two other parties joining us tonight. We had 53 00:03:36.599 --> 00:03:39.520 Davy Wavey and Nick has to be a cult rejects. However, 54 00:03:40.000 --> 00:03:43.520 much like the characters in Tonight's film who just seemingly, 55 00:03:43.680 --> 00:03:46.319 you know, fall off and die throughout the storyline of 56 00:03:46.319 --> 00:03:49.240 Tonight's discussion in the in the film plotline, Nick and 57 00:03:49.319 --> 00:03:51.759 Davey Wavey didn't die, but I'm saying they've fallen off 58 00:03:51.759 --> 00:03:55.159 Tonight's panal due to other reasons, whether and other matters, 59 00:03:55.159 --> 00:03:58.479 personal matters. Nonetheless, we uh, we continue with our with 60 00:03:58.560 --> 00:04:01.599 our with our review, and I don't know. I don't know. 61 00:04:01.639 --> 00:04:02.960 I have a lot of occult stuff. I mean, I 62 00:04:03.199 --> 00:04:05.479 definitely saw a lot of esoteric stuff in the film. 63 00:04:05.520 --> 00:04:08.240 And what were your thoughts, John Overall? I know you've 64 00:04:08.240 --> 00:04:11.680 written a pretty an extensive block piece on Strab's work, 65 00:04:11.680 --> 00:04:13.560 but you did a lot of you highlighted a lot 66 00:04:13.560 --> 00:04:16.680 of very salient characteristics I think of the Son of 67 00:04:16.680 --> 00:04:19.360 Sam cult, right, and your blog piece relative to the 68 00:04:19.600 --> 00:04:21.240 ghost story plot line, right. 69 00:04:21.519 --> 00:04:26.000 Yeah, Yeah, there's an awful lot of stuff, especially in 70 00:04:26.079 --> 00:04:28.120 the in the novel, but some of it survives in 71 00:04:28.160 --> 00:04:34.560 the movie too, really really conscious references to the Yonker's cult, 72 00:04:34.680 --> 00:04:41.879 and it's sort of like it's a version of the 73 00:04:41.920 --> 00:04:45.240 story that never mentioned Son of Sam directly, but it 74 00:04:45.360 --> 00:04:51.000 references all the other players and locations except for Son 75 00:04:51.040 --> 00:04:54.040 of Sam itself. So it's it's it's odd the way 76 00:04:54.040 --> 00:04:56.360 he did it, but it was ingenious for the book. 77 00:04:56.639 --> 00:04:59.800 It's it's really interesting story structure. 78 00:05:00.759 --> 00:05:02.759 Yeah, I agree for sure. I got some ideas on 79 00:05:02.800 --> 00:05:06.240 those similar things that I saw. Perhaps that more annoyed 80 00:05:06.399 --> 00:05:09.000 thoughts I suppose of anything else. But before we get 81 00:05:09.000 --> 00:05:11.519 into that to those discussions, before we discuss our blog 82 00:05:11.519 --> 00:05:13.720 posts again, Thank y'all both for joining me here, and 83 00:05:13.959 --> 00:05:16.600 if I can offer you both, you know, your time 84 00:05:16.639 --> 00:05:18.879 to plug anything you're working on, or an introduction anything 85 00:05:18.920 --> 00:05:21.240 you're working on, please John start us off there. 86 00:05:22.759 --> 00:05:26.360 Sure, yeah, I know you got. 87 00:05:26.319 --> 00:05:28.480 You got some new blog stuff, but as far as 88 00:05:28.560 --> 00:05:30.399 and I'll have the links here in the show notes. 89 00:05:30.439 --> 00:05:31.800 But if, yeah, if you want to introduce some of 90 00:05:31.800 --> 00:05:34.319 your work, and and then Julie, of course we'll let 91 00:05:34.360 --> 00:05:38.439 you do that next and then we'll get in our discussion. Okay, 92 00:05:38.480 --> 00:05:39.959 Well I'm not cutting out. 93 00:05:42.120 --> 00:05:45.720 Well, I wrote a long essay or a short booklet, 94 00:05:45.759 --> 00:05:48.399 I guess, or pamphlet depending on how you you know 95 00:05:48.439 --> 00:05:54.279 which classification you prefer called before Son of Sam, and 96 00:05:54.480 --> 00:05:59.160 in the sub stac blog, I'm just elaborating on some 97 00:05:59.199 --> 00:06:01.279 of the points that I originally made in the booklet. 98 00:06:01.800 --> 00:06:05.319 And occasionally, you know, you run across new information that 99 00:06:05.399 --> 00:06:09.240 relates to things that you've already discussed. So yeah, I 100 00:06:09.279 --> 00:06:12.399 had been thinking about the death Mask murder in the 101 00:06:12.480 --> 00:06:14.639 last few days, so I just wrote up a little 102 00:06:14.680 --> 00:06:17.639 something on that. But yeah, it's all Son of Sam 103 00:06:17.680 --> 00:06:18.680 adjacent stuff. 104 00:06:18.839 --> 00:06:22.079 So yeah, that's awesome, And I'll make sure these links 105 00:06:22.079 --> 00:06:24.240 from the show notes for folks that jack out. We'll 106 00:06:24.240 --> 00:06:25.839 be diving into some of those blog posts here in 107 00:06:25.879 --> 00:06:28.439 a second, because that death Mask one that's a I 108 00:06:28.560 --> 00:06:31.519 find out a very interesting and important case for folks 109 00:06:31.600 --> 00:06:33.680 to understand what's going on with all that. But before 110 00:06:33.680 --> 00:06:35.759 we get into that, Julia, thanks again man for joining 111 00:06:35.759 --> 00:06:37.680 me here tonight. What have you been working out of 112 00:06:37.680 --> 00:06:38.839 the Cosmic Peach podcast? 113 00:06:40.000 --> 00:06:43.680 So, I'm actually working on something that I was talking 114 00:06:43.680 --> 00:06:48.000 to John about before we started recording or before we 115 00:06:48.040 --> 00:06:51.720 went live, which is program serial Killers. It's one of 116 00:06:51.800 --> 00:06:55.920 my favorite subjects to talk about. I actually have discovered 117 00:06:55.920 --> 00:06:59.759 two new program serial Killers that were not mentioned in 118 00:07:00.079 --> 00:07:04.879 Program to Kill, But I've put together presentations on both 119 00:07:04.920 --> 00:07:07.240 of them and those episodes will be coming out in 120 00:07:07.279 --> 00:07:09.279 a month or so. I'd love to talk to you 121 00:07:09.399 --> 00:07:15.040 JJ about them because they're absolutely mind blowing the connections. 122 00:07:15.120 --> 00:07:18.560 But yeah, Cosmic podcast, uh. 123 00:07:18.519 --> 00:07:21.959 Huh oh sorry, go ahead. 124 00:07:22.040 --> 00:07:26.199 Oh yeah, podcast wherever you listen to podcasts. But yeah, 125 00:07:26.199 --> 00:07:27.920 I got a lot of cool stuff I'm working on, 126 00:07:28.600 --> 00:07:31.279 and this episode seems to be falling right in line 127 00:07:31.319 --> 00:07:34.240 with a bunch of stuff I'm working on too. Actually, 128 00:07:34.680 --> 00:07:39.879 you know, program killers is the best subject in my opinion. 129 00:07:40.720 --> 00:07:43.040 It's funny you mentioned that with this film hitting on 130 00:07:43.079 --> 00:07:45.160 so many subjects of things we're already working on, because 131 00:07:45.160 --> 00:07:47.560 I you know, it's not necessarily relative to the conversation. 132 00:07:47.680 --> 00:07:48.879 So I'll bring it up here in a moment of 133 00:07:48.920 --> 00:07:50.959 how that kind of hit. This film hit home to 134 00:07:51.000 --> 00:07:55.000 me in some weird synchronistic fashions, right, But to this 135 00:07:55.040 --> 00:07:57.759 program killer note, you know, I think that is interesting 136 00:07:57.800 --> 00:07:59.480 that I do think there is an aspect I think 137 00:07:59.519 --> 00:08:02.519 mcgallan is correct relating some of the matters to this 138 00:08:02.600 --> 00:08:05.759 cold activity and killings the son of Sam Coult and 139 00:08:05.839 --> 00:08:08.040 related to cold activity in around the Auncors that Johns 140 00:08:08.079 --> 00:08:10.759 highlighted on his bag. I do find that very relative. 141 00:08:10.839 --> 00:08:13.000 The two conversations are the same in my opinion. 142 00:08:13.759 --> 00:08:14.079 Hmm. 143 00:08:16.000 --> 00:08:18.199 Now, these ones you were going over, they weren't by 144 00:08:18.279 --> 00:08:21.439 name Buffalo Jared Revisa, were they? 145 00:08:23.199 --> 00:08:27.439 No? No, you probably won't even recognize him. If I 146 00:08:27.560 --> 00:08:30.079 told you the name, I bet you probably haven't even 147 00:08:30.120 --> 00:08:30.639 heard of him. 148 00:08:31.759 --> 00:08:33.919 John, Are you familiar with my former stalker and the 149 00:08:33.919 --> 00:08:37.080 guy who demanded to be my pr rep Buffalo Jared Reviza, 150 00:08:37.159 --> 00:08:39.519 the parent mind controlled assassin. He went on a multi 151 00:08:39.519 --> 00:08:41.720 state stabbing spree. 152 00:08:41.960 --> 00:08:43.240 I think we talked about the first. 153 00:08:43.360 --> 00:08:44.279 I talked about him. 154 00:08:44.360 --> 00:08:46.720 A few months back. Yeah. 155 00:08:46.840 --> 00:08:49.200 Yeah, So I did a show there night about a 156 00:08:49.240 --> 00:08:53.080 cannibalistic homicidal kid ddling serial killer. It's like a bout 157 00:08:53.080 --> 00:08:57.279 the serial killer named Nathaniel Barr Jonah, Right, would you 158 00:08:57.360 --> 00:09:01.440 believe the same Bridgewater statement On hospital that let that 159 00:09:01.440 --> 00:09:03.519 that looney tune, you know, on the loose to go 160 00:09:03.679 --> 00:09:06.879 murder and eat more kids. In nineteen ninety one, he 161 00:09:06.919 --> 00:09:09.440 moved to Great Falls, Montana and continued his activities despite 162 00:09:09.480 --> 00:09:11.919 being a registered offender in the state of Massachusetts and 163 00:09:12.000 --> 00:09:14.080 let out of the looney bin after already doing this 164 00:09:14.120 --> 00:09:17.600 to five other kids, five other kids, not eating them. 165 00:09:17.600 --> 00:09:19.919 He didn't do that until later, but or at least 166 00:09:19.919 --> 00:09:23.559 on record, but he was let out the Bridgewater Statemental Hospital, 167 00:09:23.600 --> 00:09:26.399 and that's where Buffalo Jared allegedly sits today. So I 168 00:09:26.399 --> 00:09:29.840 have a lot of come on, I have a lot 169 00:09:29.879 --> 00:09:30.559 of questions. 170 00:09:31.039 --> 00:09:31.320 JJ. 171 00:09:31.480 --> 00:09:34.320 The only thing that's even adjacent to being in a 172 00:09:34.320 --> 00:09:38.639 military program is being in a minial hospital. Yeah, I mean, 173 00:09:39.000 --> 00:09:40.559 they'll get you either way. 174 00:09:41.200 --> 00:09:43.039 Well, I'm glad you said that. So to this point 175 00:09:43.080 --> 00:09:46.919 of how these these homicidal mind controlled you know, you know, 176 00:09:47.240 --> 00:09:51.000 hypnosis controlled or whatever you want to call it. Serial killers, 177 00:09:51.039 --> 00:09:55.320 serial killers, right, you know, the system time and time 178 00:09:55.320 --> 00:09:58.519 seems to just you know, inadvertently or accidentally let these 179 00:09:58.519 --> 00:10:01.279 people out. So in the case Nathaniel bar Jonah, he 180 00:10:01.360 --> 00:10:04.360 had not only attempted to murder five children beginning eighth 181 00:10:04.399 --> 00:10:07.120 at the age of seven, and by the age of seventeen, 182 00:10:07.279 --> 00:10:09.200 was in prison on a twenty year clip for doing 183 00:10:09.200 --> 00:10:12.360 the same stuff keeping trying to kidnap and kill children 184 00:10:12.440 --> 00:10:15.679 dressed as a police officer. Edward Wade. Edwards would do 185 00:10:15.720 --> 00:10:20.000 the same thing, by the way, nonetheless, his focus wasn't children, 186 00:10:20.080 --> 00:10:26.320 at least overwhelmingly he but nonetheless, Nathaniel bar Jonah he 187 00:10:26.480 --> 00:10:30.240 tells numerous psychiatrists that he wants to kill and eat children. 188 00:10:31.080 --> 00:10:33.759 He tells the judge that the judges as it's no 189 00:10:33.840 --> 00:10:35.360 big deal, We're gonna let this go. He's not this 190 00:10:35.399 --> 00:10:39.080 guy's not a danger to society. He tells another psychiatrist 191 00:10:39.080 --> 00:10:40.960 that after the judge makes the willing to let him 192 00:10:40.960 --> 00:10:43.559 out of the state mental hospital fourteen years after on 193 00:10:43.600 --> 00:10:46.159 a twenty year clip in prison for the kid the 194 00:10:46.240 --> 00:10:49.720 kid kidnapping and attempt to murder two children, right, and 195 00:10:51.519 --> 00:10:54.080 when they let him out, he did the same thing 196 00:10:54.159 --> 00:10:55.039 less than a month later. 197 00:10:56.679 --> 00:10:57.080 Fucker. 198 00:10:58.240 --> 00:10:59.840 And you know what, you know the district attorney date 199 00:10:59.919 --> 00:11:01.679 on on that charge that he did when he kidnapped 200 00:11:01.720 --> 00:11:03.480 kid less than month later, and he would he was 201 00:11:03.480 --> 00:11:05.759 a three hundred pound dude, so he would disable the 202 00:11:05.840 --> 00:11:09.320 children by sitting on them, right, This is this is 203 00:11:09.360 --> 00:11:12.399 his m He did the same thing kidnapping the kid, 204 00:11:12.440 --> 00:11:15.879 did the same thing, and the and the county prosecutor 205 00:11:16.080 --> 00:11:19.039 there said, you know what, I don't this guy's not 206 00:11:19.080 --> 00:11:20.879 a day. We're gonna give him probation. We're gonna give 207 00:11:20.919 --> 00:11:21.360 him probation. 208 00:11:22.039 --> 00:11:26.480 So well, that's the same with Jeffrey Dahmer and Ted Bundy. 209 00:11:26.559 --> 00:11:31.960 They kept exactly exactly And actually one of the serial 210 00:11:32.080 --> 00:11:36.080 killers that I'm covering in an upcoming episode kept getting 211 00:11:36.200 --> 00:11:39.399 let back out too. It was like orders from the 212 00:11:40.039 --> 00:11:43.799 district attorney's office letting this guy out. I mean, I 213 00:11:43.799 --> 00:11:46.200 can't give too much away, obviously because you'll have to 214 00:11:46.200 --> 00:11:49.440 listen to the episode, but it is crazy. And I 215 00:11:49.480 --> 00:11:52.559 did see in the in the comment section they said, 216 00:11:52.679 --> 00:11:56.080 is this the nineteen eighty one movie? Yes it is, 217 00:11:56.799 --> 00:12:00.080 And I had never heard of it, and I was 218 00:12:00.080 --> 00:12:03.200 actually get really excited because I love horror movies. 219 00:12:04.320 --> 00:12:06.799 And uh on these kind of same notes of the 220 00:12:06.840 --> 00:12:08.879 mind controlled serial killer, sasas and stuff when we're talking 221 00:12:08.879 --> 00:12:12.279 all these satanic cults and matters relative to the Son 222 00:12:12.320 --> 00:12:15.840 of same or the Process, right it is. And one 223 00:12:15.919 --> 00:12:18.679 note before I plugged my my the Anatomy of a 224 00:12:18.679 --> 00:12:25.480 Satanic panic series starting tomorrow and Operation GCD Patreon Nathaniel Barjona. 225 00:12:25.519 --> 00:12:28.279 The judge that let him out was the special prosecutor 226 00:12:28.320 --> 00:12:30.559 in the chap Aquidit case to let ted Kennedy walk, 227 00:12:33.120 --> 00:12:35.360 make that makes sense. And the woman that died in there, 228 00:12:35.440 --> 00:12:38.480 Mary Joe Capecney, she was the senior staff or the 229 00:12:38.600 --> 00:12:41.000 RFK on his presidential campaign, you know, the one where 230 00:12:41.080 --> 00:12:46.120 the Process was associated with this assassination Yem and Teddy 231 00:12:46.200 --> 00:12:48.399 Kennedy by that point in time had already been documented 232 00:12:48.440 --> 00:12:51.679 meeting with the Process and the Cambridge, Massachusetts mayor at 233 00:12:51.679 --> 00:12:55.039 a the Process coffee shop in Cambridge, Massachusetts prior to 234 00:12:55.080 --> 00:12:58.559 the state So seems seems kind of odd that this judge, 235 00:12:59.039 --> 00:13:00.679 you know, what I like to say is process folks 236 00:13:00.679 --> 00:13:03.080 are gonna process, right, So and this this judge seemed 237 00:13:03.080 --> 00:13:05.639 like he was more than willing to ignore numerous statements 238 00:13:05.679 --> 00:13:10.039 from psychiatrists, statements from the the actual homicidal psychopathic kid Dedling, 239 00:13:10.279 --> 00:13:13.799 you know, serial killer, maniac guy, and another psychiatrist after 240 00:13:13.840 --> 00:13:15.039 he made his decision just to say, you know what, 241 00:13:15.039 --> 00:13:17.200 We're gonna let this guy out. He's on a dangerous society. 242 00:13:19.039 --> 00:13:24.960 There's no coincidences, So that I'll be going over certain 243 00:13:25.000 --> 00:13:28.080 aspects of unpacking this is the quote unquote satanic panic 244 00:13:28.080 --> 00:13:30.720 and how ridiculous a lot of these concepts are. 245 00:13:30.600 --> 00:13:32.879 And how they revolve around a lot of around the 246 00:13:32.919 --> 00:13:37.039 psychological operations components, specifically in other matters around this guy. 247 00:13:37.600 --> 00:13:42.799 Colonel Michael Aquino. Now, Julie, are you fam there. This 248 00:13:42.879 --> 00:13:45.279 is a relative to Dave mcgow and John some of 249 00:13:45.320 --> 00:13:48.000 his work he did besides the Program to Kill, on 250 00:13:48.039 --> 00:13:50.480 some of these matters. Are you familiar with the the 251 00:13:50.519 --> 00:13:54.320 infamous exchange that Aquino had with Dave McGowan Syrica two 252 00:13:54.320 --> 00:13:55.000 thousand and one. 253 00:13:56.200 --> 00:14:00.639 He had uh interaction with Dave Well. 254 00:14:00.600 --> 00:14:04.639 Yeah, yeah, so another one of the books John, John, 255 00:14:04.759 --> 00:14:06.559 you may not be familiar with this one, Julia, you 256 00:14:06.559 --> 00:14:07.759 may be familiar with it. 257 00:14:07.799 --> 00:14:12.519 Pedocracy, pedioocracy, Yeah, the pedaphocracy. 258 00:14:13.320 --> 00:14:16.679 There we go pedophocracy the McGowan books. So Aquino read that, 259 00:14:16.759 --> 00:14:18.559 saw his name and other associated friends in there, and 260 00:14:18.840 --> 00:14:21.120 wrote him an email saying, you're a madman, You're making 261 00:14:21.120 --> 00:14:24.440 stuff up. You're you're creating satanic panic. Was a statement 262 00:14:24.480 --> 00:14:27.600 a Quino made the McGowan be email. Obviously McGowan wasn't 263 00:14:27.600 --> 00:14:29.960 buying it, no, and. 264 00:14:29.919 --> 00:14:32.279 Also he probably read it and knew his goose was 265 00:14:32.360 --> 00:14:35.840 cooked because McGowan had all the facts there. He never 266 00:14:36.000 --> 00:14:39.440 published anything without having all the facts for sure. 267 00:14:39.480 --> 00:14:41.799 And it's a it's a quite hilarious exchange. And I 268 00:14:41.840 --> 00:14:43.720 will be coming going over with some of that in 269 00:14:43.720 --> 00:14:47.639 my you know, outline and unpacking of this quote unquote 270 00:14:47.840 --> 00:14:51.360 satanic panic. That again, when a man like Michael Quino 271 00:14:51.519 --> 00:14:54.799 is accusing folks who were studying facts, and again McGowan, 272 00:14:54.919 --> 00:14:56.720 you know, provides in the fact states the facts. As 273 00:14:56.720 --> 00:14:59.120 you were pointing out, Julia in the email exchanges, they 274 00:14:59.159 --> 00:15:01.919 have know and it's kind of laughable. His response is 275 00:15:01.919 --> 00:15:04.559 because mcgallan has a way of being kind of sarcastic 276 00:15:04.600 --> 00:15:06.960 without even with being intelligent at the same time, you 277 00:15:06.960 --> 00:15:07.559 know what I mean. 278 00:15:07.919 --> 00:15:11.120 Mm hmm r I P Dave McGowan. I love that guy. 279 00:15:12.360 --> 00:15:13.559 And also hello. 280 00:15:13.480 --> 00:15:18.000 Maria, I saw her mentioning me in the comments. 281 00:15:19.240 --> 00:15:21.960 Yes, so that'll be a good one. Say on. On 282 00:15:22.039 --> 00:15:25.399 top of that, I have one more plug before we 283 00:15:25.440 --> 00:15:27.759 get we get started here, folks, and I do apologize 284 00:15:27.759 --> 00:15:31.200 for any long winded natures. I have a actually we have. 285 00:15:31.679 --> 00:15:34.639 We have a different a cult esoteric review coming up 286 00:15:34.679 --> 00:15:38.440 next week, don't we, Julia, Yes we do. So I 287 00:15:38.519 --> 00:15:44.759 married an axe murderer, right, Yeah, that's not it. I 288 00:15:44.759 --> 00:15:46.200 got it here somewhere stand by one. 289 00:15:46.480 --> 00:15:51.960 Yeah, so I married an axe murderers. Next week, yep. 290 00:15:51.919 --> 00:15:54.480 This time. Next Wednesday, we have a different cult esoteric 291 00:15:54.600 --> 00:15:57.840 view with a cosmic Peach returning back along with myself, 292 00:15:58.279 --> 00:16:03.519 Jien the Ninja, my Idaho four, I Haven't Costello Cohort 293 00:16:03.840 --> 00:16:06.480 and of course Hety Love from Unfiltered Rise podcast. So 294 00:16:06.519 --> 00:16:08.159 that'll be a good one. And then the following week, 295 00:16:08.600 --> 00:16:13.879 I have an occult esoteric review on lethal weapon. Relative 296 00:16:13.960 --> 00:16:18.840 to all these Iran Contra speaking of serial Killers, Phoenix Program, 297 00:16:18.879 --> 00:16:20.960 Come Home ideas of David McGowan that we see kind 298 00:16:20.960 --> 00:16:23.279 of depicted in that film, along with the drug running 299 00:16:23.399 --> 00:16:27.320 that we know around things such as BCCI and Iran 300 00:16:27.360 --> 00:16:29.480 Contra matters there, so that'd be a good one. And 301 00:16:29.519 --> 00:16:31.639 then actually, I forgot one more here. I got this 302 00:16:31.759 --> 00:16:36.200 Sunday on Operation GCD Patreon Sundays. I got the serial 303 00:16:36.279 --> 00:16:39.000 killer You have never heard of Edward Wyn Edwards. So 304 00:16:39.879 --> 00:16:42.960 speaking of more serial killers, that's a serial killers, that's 305 00:16:43.000 --> 00:16:46.159 a This one's a real barn burner, because, as I 306 00:16:46.240 --> 00:16:48.320 state in the title, most folks have never heard of 307 00:16:48.320 --> 00:16:49.960 the man. He's one of the most, if not the 308 00:16:50.039 --> 00:16:55.200 most diabolical serial killer in American history. So day like 309 00:16:55.279 --> 00:16:56.600 dark shit, that's a good one. 310 00:16:57.200 --> 00:16:58.879 That's a statement right there. 311 00:16:59.559 --> 00:16:59.799 JJ. 312 00:17:00.039 --> 00:17:06.839 Absolutely so on that note, let's talk more serial killers? 313 00:17:10.359 --> 00:17:11.400 Did I cut out in my back? 314 00:17:12.440 --> 00:17:14.839 No, you're good. You want John to go first? 315 00:17:15.480 --> 00:17:18.319 Well, I was gonna say, let's uh, let's me bring 316 00:17:18.400 --> 00:17:20.720 up the film first. Yeah, well we'll actually know what 317 00:17:21.000 --> 00:17:24.480 Let's let's jump into some of John's work if you 318 00:17:24.519 --> 00:17:27.039 don't mind on the Sun to Sam stuff. So I'm sure, Julia, 319 00:17:27.079 --> 00:17:29.880 you'll be knowledgeable in some of these topics he's discussing 320 00:17:29.920 --> 00:17:34.680 here in his blog posts. Yeah, so, John, what what what? 321 00:17:34.680 --> 00:17:36.759 What's been your It seems like you on your blog 322 00:17:36.759 --> 00:17:39.039 post from from what what I've read off your recent ones. 323 00:17:39.039 --> 00:17:42.880 You've been highlighting the ongoing activity, right, you did some 324 00:17:42.920 --> 00:17:44.640 of the ongoing activities here and. 325 00:17:47.000 --> 00:17:53.480 Yeah, very recent uh story from Westchester County about uh 326 00:17:54.039 --> 00:17:56.640 new or recent animal mutilations. 327 00:17:57.720 --> 00:17:58.160 Interesting. 328 00:17:58.599 --> 00:18:02.640 The one of the New York City council women even 329 00:18:02.680 --> 00:18:05.599 acknowledges that, you know, it's it's cults that are doing this, 330 00:18:06.079 --> 00:18:08.960 so that I don't think this kind of activity ever stopped. 331 00:18:08.960 --> 00:18:10.920 I think, I mean, it was obviously was going on 332 00:18:11.000 --> 00:18:14.400 well before the Son of sam Era, but it continued, 333 00:18:14.480 --> 00:18:18.480 you know, long after Berkowitz was arrested, and you know 334 00:18:18.559 --> 00:18:19.880 the case was allegedly over. 335 00:18:22.480 --> 00:18:25.240 So John, color me me shock that Westchester County remains 336 00:18:25.240 --> 00:18:28.079 adent of inequity today as god back in nineteen seventy seven. 337 00:18:30.799 --> 00:18:32.880 But no, it says right here though, right like you 338 00:18:32.880 --> 00:18:36.319 said that these are fringe groups mutilating and killing animals, 339 00:18:36.319 --> 00:18:40.359 says New York City councilwoman Joe Anne. And that's a 340 00:18:40.440 --> 00:18:43.319 real name, Ariola, Ariola. 341 00:18:43.400 --> 00:18:47.319 So John, is it your opinion that this is accurate 342 00:18:47.640 --> 00:18:51.519 or are they giving us more smoking mirrors? Like are 343 00:18:51.519 --> 00:18:56.039 they trying to distract us? Like oh, it's you look 344 00:18:56.079 --> 00:18:58.440 at this, look at this, like what do you what 345 00:18:58.480 --> 00:18:59.400 are your thoughts on that. 346 00:19:00.480 --> 00:19:03.680 I think this one is because when I started to 347 00:19:04.279 --> 00:19:07.640 get into full time research, I had read another story 348 00:19:07.640 --> 00:19:11.400 I think was actually in USA today, where similar things 349 00:19:11.400 --> 00:19:13.519 were happening to this, like four or five years ago. 350 00:19:13.720 --> 00:19:18.160 So it appears to be ongoing up there now, you 351 00:19:18.160 --> 00:19:21.240 know what it's attached to. Who's in charge of the 352 00:19:21.279 --> 00:19:26.960 activity these days? I couldn't say, but and I've spoken 353 00:19:27.000 --> 00:19:31.039 to people from the area, and everybody seems to sort 354 00:19:31.039 --> 00:19:32.920 of be aware on some level that this kind of 355 00:19:32.920 --> 00:19:38.000 stuff has always happened and continues to happen. I think 356 00:19:38.039 --> 00:19:40.240 it is legit. Of course, there could be way worse 357 00:19:40.359 --> 00:19:42.559 things that are happening, you know, that are behind the 358 00:19:42.599 --> 00:19:45.960 scenes that we don't see. But at the very least, 359 00:19:46.000 --> 00:19:49.720 this continued ritual sacrifice of animals I think indicates that 360 00:19:51.200 --> 00:19:56.160 basically the same practices are still being conducted in that area. 361 00:19:57.759 --> 00:20:01.519 Okay, I gotcha, And it's kind of never stopped if 362 00:20:01.519 --> 00:20:03.319 you look at I mean, just from my just from 363 00:20:03.119 --> 00:20:05.359 my take on all these matters is looking at some 364 00:20:05.359 --> 00:20:10.119 of the newspaper accounts, there's records of mutilated animals throughout Westchester, Puttnam, 365 00:20:10.160 --> 00:20:15.759 even Fairfield County, Connecticut. So throughout the eighties even yeah, yeah, 366 00:20:15.880 --> 00:20:17.960 into the nineties, so it didn't seem like it ever 367 00:20:18.000 --> 00:20:20.039 really stopped, right, I mean, they may shift their mode 368 00:20:20.079 --> 00:20:22.759 of operations and where their locations are doing things maybe, 369 00:20:22.799 --> 00:20:26.880 I guess right, but right, an ongoing enterprise. 370 00:20:26.759 --> 00:20:29.319 Yeah, different public parks and things like that. But it's 371 00:20:29.359 --> 00:20:33.759 it's it's always in areas where they seem to leave 372 00:20:33.920 --> 00:20:37.119 some traces of evidence deliberately so that people will see 373 00:20:37.160 --> 00:20:41.440 it and talk about it. And I think that's an 374 00:20:41.519 --> 00:20:43.759 ongoing preoccupation of these groups. 375 00:20:44.200 --> 00:20:45.920 Got that so on that note, What do you think 376 00:20:45.920 --> 00:20:48.400 they're doing that for? Is that a psychological terror campaign 377 00:20:48.480 --> 00:20:52.359 to scare America? When they're leaving things behind, they could 378 00:20:52.359 --> 00:20:54.039 just as easily clean it up, as you just pointed out, 379 00:20:54.079 --> 00:20:55.720 And I do agree, right right. 380 00:20:56.240 --> 00:20:58.559 I think it's like Peter Strub said in the novel 381 00:20:58.880 --> 00:21:02.599 ghost Story, they like to flaunt themselves. They like to 382 00:21:02.680 --> 00:21:08.119 leave breadcrumbs. It's it's a perverse thing that I think. 383 00:21:08.160 --> 00:21:12.240 It's like people who are flashers or something like it. 384 00:21:12.519 --> 00:21:14.720 People just they want people to see it, you know, 385 00:21:14.759 --> 00:21:16.759 whatever it is they're doing, they have to have an 386 00:21:16.799 --> 00:21:18.640 audience of some type for it. 387 00:21:18.720 --> 00:21:21.599 So it's kind of that that same kind of ego 388 00:21:21.759 --> 00:21:25.440 driven kind of thing, right they're trying. Of course, other 389 00:21:25.440 --> 00:21:28.160 people look at him naked. My math teacher did that 390 00:21:28.200 --> 00:21:30.039 in high school. He forced people to do that. It 391 00:21:30.079 --> 00:21:32.519 was after high school, but sadly he's my favorite, one 392 00:21:32.559 --> 00:21:34.319 of my favorite teachers in high school. But he was 393 00:21:34.400 --> 00:21:37.400 driving around after a couple years later, just getting women 394 00:21:37.400 --> 00:21:39.160 to pull over on the local highway or whatever and 395 00:21:39.200 --> 00:21:41.680 then running out there with an overcoat on, saying, you know, 396 00:21:41.759 --> 00:21:45.119 look at this, and then you know, things happen. You 397 00:21:45.200 --> 00:21:47.640 know what causes it? Yeah, you know, check out this 398 00:21:47.720 --> 00:21:50.559 ding dumb who doesn't causes these activities, but these things 399 00:21:50.599 --> 00:21:51.119 do happen. 400 00:21:54.039 --> 00:21:55.960 It is the kind of thing that it has to 401 00:21:56.000 --> 00:21:58.200 be like a deep seated compulsion for people to do 402 00:21:58.240 --> 00:22:00.960 it at all, because if if they sat and thought 403 00:22:00.960 --> 00:22:03.920 about it rationally, that they wouldn't be out there doing it. 404 00:22:03.960 --> 00:22:09.920 But yeah, speaking of this is a nineteen eighty one movie, 405 00:22:10.079 --> 00:22:15.559 and I was actually surprised how much full frontal there's 406 00:22:15.599 --> 00:22:22.119 a lot in this. Yeah, it's uh, it really was it. 407 00:22:22.920 --> 00:22:25.880 Yeah, I forgot this as an adult because I remember, 408 00:22:26.279 --> 00:22:28.839 you know a number, my son's eighteen now, but you know, 409 00:22:28.960 --> 00:22:31.839 almost almost eighteen. But when he was about seven or so, 410 00:22:31.880 --> 00:22:33.720 I was, you know, introducing him some films from my 411 00:22:33.799 --> 00:22:35.599 child and I totally forgot how much full front was 412 00:22:35.640 --> 00:22:38.119 in the film Howard the Duck, And then I realized, 413 00:22:38.160 --> 00:22:40.279 I'm like, it's PG right, But I realized they didn't 414 00:22:40.279 --> 00:22:42.319 invent PG thirteen for a couple more years because there's 415 00:22:42.359 --> 00:22:44.000 a lot of full frontal on it. There's duck on 416 00:22:44.559 --> 00:22:47.240 there's women have banging ducks in that film. There's that's 417 00:22:47.240 --> 00:22:49.319 a really weird film, and it's of course it's a 418 00:22:49.319 --> 00:22:50.319 marvel story. 419 00:22:50.079 --> 00:22:53.039 Right best reality at its finest. 420 00:22:54.079 --> 00:22:55.640 But yeah, they got a lot of They got away 421 00:22:55.680 --> 00:22:56.880 with a lot of stuff in the early eighties. I 422 00:22:56.920 --> 00:22:58.720 feel like in some of these films, this one had some, 423 00:22:58.920 --> 00:23:00.920 you know, more nudity than I thought was coming in it. 424 00:23:00.960 --> 00:23:01.720 But it is a horri. 425 00:23:01.799 --> 00:23:05.839 Yeah, me too, right, Yeah, you always know somebody's gonna 426 00:23:05.839 --> 00:23:07.599 die if their penis or tits are out. 427 00:23:08.240 --> 00:23:10.279 That's what I was offended by the cock shot early 428 00:23:10.319 --> 00:23:12.079 on in the film. I was offended by that there's 429 00:23:12.160 --> 00:23:13.920 no need to show the man's penis falling out of 430 00:23:13.960 --> 00:23:14.359 the building. 431 00:23:16.720 --> 00:23:19.839 That it wasn't that it was like a green screen 432 00:23:19.920 --> 00:23:22.880 thing and you could see the outline as he fell, 433 00:23:23.079 --> 00:23:25.839 you know, the whole scene is just really odd looking. 434 00:23:26.359 --> 00:23:29.839 Yeah, it's definitely kind of low budge, I would say, 435 00:23:31.160 --> 00:23:34.200 but it's got a lot of aspects of like a 436 00:23:34.240 --> 00:23:37.240 classic eighties horror movie. 437 00:23:38.039 --> 00:23:39.799 And it's funny you say that it comes off with 438 00:23:39.839 --> 00:23:41.279 a budget, doesn't it. 439 00:23:41.279 --> 00:23:43.599 It does come off of a budge, it really does. 440 00:23:47.240 --> 00:23:50.400 That surprises me because, like, I don't want to get 441 00:23:50.400 --> 00:23:52.680 ahead of ourselves here, but like the scenes where it 442 00:23:52.799 --> 00:23:58.400 shows the uh, the woman as a skeleton and you know, 443 00:23:58.480 --> 00:24:01.680 she's all it looks like something that you could get 444 00:24:01.680 --> 00:24:02.880 at Spirit Halloween. 445 00:24:03.160 --> 00:24:03.359 You know. 446 00:24:03.880 --> 00:24:04.799 It just kind of. 447 00:24:06.759 --> 00:24:09.799 It looked worse than that that Minnesota my control assassin 448 00:24:09.920 --> 00:24:14.079 over the weekend, right than his mass. 449 00:24:14.680 --> 00:24:18.079 Well, yeah, but I will I don't want to get again, 450 00:24:18.160 --> 00:24:19.720 I don't want to get too far ahead into the 451 00:24:19.720 --> 00:24:21.640 movie or anything. But I will say I did enjoy 452 00:24:21.680 --> 00:24:25.839 it because I feel like it's a story. I think 453 00:24:25.920 --> 00:24:28.920 it's the predecessor actually to many horror movies that have 454 00:24:29.039 --> 00:24:31.240 the same outline. I don't know if it will be 455 00:24:31.319 --> 00:24:35.000 integral to anything John's gonna point out, but the idea 456 00:24:35.279 --> 00:24:40.599 of the vengeful spirit coming back and attacking the living 457 00:24:40.720 --> 00:24:46.519 and like taking them out one by one. It's repeated 458 00:24:46.599 --> 00:24:50.319 throughout a lot of horror movies. This might have been 459 00:24:50.359 --> 00:24:53.640 the first one that did that. I'm not sure. But 460 00:24:54.880 --> 00:24:57.200 have you guys ever seen a horror movie called Shutter? 461 00:24:57.880 --> 00:25:03.839 It was originally a Japanese horror movie that was like americanized. 462 00:25:05.759 --> 00:25:06.880 I don't think I've ever seen it. 463 00:25:07.559 --> 00:25:10.640 Well, it's the same concept, I would say, like movies 464 00:25:10.680 --> 00:25:16.000 like Grudge, you know, where it's like the bad guys 465 00:25:16.200 --> 00:25:20.160 killed somebody and their ghost comes back and kills them 466 00:25:20.200 --> 00:25:23.680 off one by one kind of thing, which is what. 467 00:25:23.559 --> 00:25:24.599 We have here in ghost Story. 468 00:25:24.680 --> 00:25:27.480 Huh right, Yeah, I do feel like it's an idea 469 00:25:27.559 --> 00:25:29.920 that's been kind of like, maybe they ripped it off 470 00:25:29.960 --> 00:25:33.039 of this movie because it's not as well known as 471 00:25:33.039 --> 00:25:37.400 some of the more popular ones. But sure it's older 472 00:25:37.440 --> 00:25:40.599 than them, So I'm thinking maybe they ripped it off 473 00:25:40.640 --> 00:25:42.440 of this movie because. 474 00:25:42.240 --> 00:25:46.400 You bring up some good points and I don't want 475 00:25:46.400 --> 00:25:48.720 to cut you off there. But before we go any further, 476 00:25:49.599 --> 00:25:52.400 this is gonna be the number one Halloween costume of 477 00:25:52.440 --> 00:25:57.440 twenty twenty five, I imagine. But this was the Vance Botler guy, right. 478 00:25:57.480 --> 00:25:59.960 He seemed like, speaking of horror stories should just watch 479 00:26:00.119 --> 00:26:01.920 this guy's story of the weekend. That's a horror story 480 00:26:02.000 --> 00:26:04.200 right there, the sigh of they try to pass off 481 00:26:04.480 --> 00:26:05.319 on folks. 482 00:26:05.559 --> 00:26:07.799 I didn't get to dive too far into it, but 483 00:26:07.839 --> 00:26:09.799 I'm sure you've got a lot of thoughts on. 484 00:26:09.720 --> 00:26:12.400 It's it's ridiculous, Yeah, I do, Well, you talk about 485 00:26:12.440 --> 00:26:13.599 some of their time. I just want to make the 486 00:26:13.680 --> 00:26:15.599 joke there because it's fancy both. I think that name 487 00:26:15.640 --> 00:26:18.039 is ridiculous, and I think that mask is ridiculous, just 488 00:26:18.079 --> 00:26:20.519 as ridiculous as the horror mask you're talking about from 489 00:26:20.559 --> 00:26:24.200 Ghost Story, you know what I mean. So, you know, 490 00:26:24.240 --> 00:26:26.119 as far as a low budget where the money went, 491 00:26:26.160 --> 00:26:28.599 I imagined it was all cocin hookers. But that's my opinion. 492 00:26:29.720 --> 00:26:32.680 Well, you know, didn't Poltergeist come out in the eighties 493 00:26:33.200 --> 00:26:33.880 or am I wrong? 494 00:26:34.079 --> 00:26:34.519 Yeah? 495 00:26:35.240 --> 00:26:39.119 Think think of all the freaking special effects they put 496 00:26:39.160 --> 00:26:42.920 into Poltergeist. You know, it just didn't seem like it 497 00:26:42.960 --> 00:26:45.119 was upper echelon type. 498 00:26:44.839 --> 00:26:49.519 Of make up what I'm saying. You know, you got 499 00:26:49.640 --> 00:26:51.720 to you gotta look at the Fred of Stare situation, 500 00:26:51.799 --> 00:26:54.759 and you know he's got a large, large amount money's 501 00:26:54.759 --> 00:26:57.640 probably dedicated to his you know, his budget line item 502 00:26:57.680 --> 00:27:03.200 of cocin hookers just for himself and I and I'm 503 00:27:03.240 --> 00:27:05.039 and on that note, before we go any further here 504 00:27:05.039 --> 00:27:07.720 on John's blogs, we will go over these characters, the 505 00:27:08.119 --> 00:27:11.160 actors in the film, because there's some interest in folks there. 506 00:27:11.200 --> 00:27:15.720 But yeah, John, you were also recovering the mystery of 507 00:27:15.720 --> 00:27:18.000 the mcnuts What's that's some more recent one of your 508 00:27:18.599 --> 00:27:20.720 since we last talk. That's your more the most recent one. 509 00:27:21.200 --> 00:27:24.640 Yeah, I was. I was really interested in that story 510 00:27:24.720 --> 00:27:27.240 that I think we've talked a little bit about. Jesse 511 00:27:27.359 --> 00:27:31.960 Turner and other or Mickey Rose, the name that Morey 512 00:27:32.119 --> 00:27:33.960 used to refer to. I don't know where the name 513 00:27:33.960 --> 00:27:35.240 came from. I don't know if that's the name that 514 00:27:35.279 --> 00:27:41.400 Turner used for himself, but he, you know, he lived 515 00:27:41.480 --> 00:27:45.359 with the Process in New Orleans, and he recalled an 516 00:27:45.359 --> 00:27:52.319 incident where a fellow Process member was hung up it 517 00:27:52.400 --> 00:27:54.680 sounds like on a wall or something, but but tied 518 00:27:54.839 --> 00:27:59.559 up and bled to death. And the person who did 519 00:27:59.599 --> 00:28:02.519 it was this person he refers to as Adam McNutt. 520 00:28:02.599 --> 00:28:10.400 And Adam's wife apparently was named Karen, and uh, it's 521 00:28:10.440 --> 00:28:13.720 it's a gruesome Morey referred to this just very very 522 00:28:13.720 --> 00:28:18.559 briefly in the epilogue of the expanded edition of his book. 523 00:28:19.599 --> 00:28:21.519 That yeah, I'm not hip. I'm not hip to this 524 00:28:21.559 --> 00:28:21.799 at all. 525 00:28:21.839 --> 00:28:23.759 But I'm not hip to this either. 526 00:28:23.960 --> 00:28:27.319 I'm very what years we talking here, this crucifixion situation. 527 00:28:28.319 --> 00:28:31.359 This was in the early seventies when when Turner lived 528 00:28:31.400 --> 00:28:34.160 with the Process in the French Quarter, they had a 529 00:28:34.200 --> 00:28:40.559 house there, and he said that he witnessed this murder 530 00:28:41.359 --> 00:28:46.160 and then the Adam and Karen the mcnutts took the 531 00:28:46.160 --> 00:28:49.000 body away in a car. He never saw Karen again, 532 00:28:49.039 --> 00:28:54.240 but then he Jesse Turner evidently travels west with Adam 533 00:28:54.839 --> 00:28:57.640 after this is all over with, and they go to 534 00:28:58.160 --> 00:29:03.960 try to set up headquarters for the Process in other areas. 535 00:29:03.559 --> 00:29:04.839 In the United States. 536 00:29:05.400 --> 00:29:09.680 Yeah, yeah, so it's it's in the files that we have. 537 00:29:10.000 --> 00:29:12.559 He doesn't really elaborate on the incident very much, but 538 00:29:12.680 --> 00:29:17.039 it is this is publicly available information now, and it's 539 00:29:18.119 --> 00:29:21.160 I've searched and searched in vain for any trace of 540 00:29:21.200 --> 00:29:25.119 Adam and Karen McNutt. So I'm guessing that those probably 541 00:29:25.119 --> 00:29:29.720 weren't their real names. But just the fact that the incident, 542 00:29:29.759 --> 00:29:33.519 you know, the way the incident is described is it 543 00:29:33.720 --> 00:29:36.599 seems pretty significant to me because I would guess that 544 00:29:36.680 --> 00:29:40.119 the process didn't do this on only one occasion. I 545 00:29:40.119 --> 00:29:43.240 think this probably happened a lot. We get some pretty 546 00:29:44.160 --> 00:29:48.319 spooky accounts of well you like Peter Straub wrote about 547 00:29:48.519 --> 00:29:51.960 a New Orleans incident in the novel ghost Story, which 548 00:29:52.000 --> 00:29:55.480 didn't make it into the film unfortunately. But that's that's 549 00:29:55.559 --> 00:29:57.920 part of what I cover in that substay. 550 00:30:00.279 --> 00:30:02.039 You know, I'll kind of put a pin in that. 551 00:30:02.079 --> 00:30:03.960 But I am interested in your analysis because I didn't 552 00:30:03.960 --> 00:30:05.640 read the book, but I'm interested in your analysis and 553 00:30:05.680 --> 00:30:08.240 what was included in what was not included there. But 554 00:30:08.319 --> 00:30:12.079 it's interesting about the mcnuts. I often look into that myself. 555 00:30:12.359 --> 00:30:14.440 After reading your article. It's the first I heard of it. 556 00:30:16.079 --> 00:30:18.160 Yeah, it's really It's one of those things that when 557 00:30:18.279 --> 00:30:21.440 when we got the files that it jumped out at me. 558 00:30:21.480 --> 00:30:24.519 But a lot all of the Mickey Rose slash Jesse 559 00:30:24.599 --> 00:30:29.160 Turner files are really interesting because he knew firsthand about 560 00:30:29.200 --> 00:30:31.319 this process stuff, and then later in New York he 561 00:30:31.920 --> 00:30:36.920 became friends with Michael Carr. But yeah, I would recommend 562 00:30:37.000 --> 00:30:40.119 everybody go and read the files at the people versus 563 00:30:40.240 --> 00:30:44.440 David Burklewitz dot com. 564 00:30:43.440 --> 00:30:45.480 And I'll get a link in their description for that too. 565 00:30:45.519 --> 00:30:47.920 So it's interesting you said that he knew about details 566 00:30:47.920 --> 00:30:49.640 of the cult. And again, that's what's most telling to 567 00:30:49.680 --> 00:30:53.759 me about tonight's movie review, is Peter Strob when he 568 00:30:53.799 --> 00:30:56.400 wrote that book clearly new details of this cold activity. 569 00:30:56.400 --> 00:30:58.759 I mean wrote that nineteen seventy eight, right, because Burke 570 00:30:58.839 --> 00:31:01.440 which is arrested in August tenth or seventy seven, and 571 00:31:02.079 --> 00:31:05.279 Stroub publishes this in January first of seventy nine, so 572 00:31:05.559 --> 00:31:08.359 you know, less than eighteen months. 573 00:31:08.079 --> 00:31:11.039 That's right, And I think that's what's so important about 574 00:31:11.039 --> 00:31:13.519 the novel, And welln't a lot of other Straub's work too, 575 00:31:13.559 --> 00:31:17.240 because there are references to this stuff sprinkled throughout virtually 576 00:31:17.240 --> 00:31:19.039 every book he ever wrote, you know, right up to 577 00:31:19.079 --> 00:31:24.440 the end. But he what's so important about it is 578 00:31:24.720 --> 00:31:31.640 it's an entirely separate confirmation that this cult activity actually happened. 579 00:31:32.200 --> 00:31:35.480 It's a totally separate confirmation of the existence of the 580 00:31:35.519 --> 00:31:38.599 Ankor's cult because as far as we know, Stroud never 581 00:31:38.640 --> 00:31:41.960 had any contact with Maury Terry, and this novel was 582 00:31:42.200 --> 00:31:45.960 published long long before Maury wrote The Ultimate Evil. He 583 00:31:46.039 --> 00:31:48.799 was just putting his work together in a few newspaper 584 00:31:48.880 --> 00:31:53.000 articles at that time. So just as Maury was really 585 00:31:53.039 --> 00:32:00.000 getting into writing about this stuff in newspaper form, Stroud 586 00:32:00.079 --> 00:32:03.640 had already published an entire novel that just page after 587 00:32:03.720 --> 00:32:11.240 page references members of the cult, Westchester place names, other 588 00:32:11.359 --> 00:32:14.359 place names that were connected to the cult and its membership. 589 00:32:14.839 --> 00:32:18.240 It's really spooky because yes, Stroud clearly had a first 590 00:32:18.279 --> 00:32:20.839 hand source for all this stuff. And really I think 591 00:32:20.880 --> 00:32:24.359 the only question is who was his source. But it's 592 00:32:24.440 --> 00:32:28.079 it's very it's very disturbing when you when you start 593 00:32:28.079 --> 00:32:31.279 to you know, the references really pile up after a while. 594 00:32:32.160 --> 00:32:34.720 Do you think he was involved in Nicole himself? 595 00:32:36.000 --> 00:32:39.680 I want you know where. I think that there's at 596 00:32:39.759 --> 00:32:41.720 least one clue to where he might have found out 597 00:32:41.759 --> 00:32:45.480 about this. He dedicates the novel to a couple of 598 00:32:45.480 --> 00:32:53.640 different people. What are their names here? Valley shioh s 599 00:32:53.839 --> 00:32:59.440 h a Io and Gregori O cahoone. Those were they? 600 00:32:59.720 --> 00:33:02.000 They weren't married at the time, but they married later. 601 00:33:02.039 --> 00:33:08.319 They're both psychotherapists, but they're both Tavistock already laying alumni. 602 00:33:09.079 --> 00:33:12.960 So yeah, the fact that he doesn't know, Yeah, that 603 00:33:13.279 --> 00:33:15.680 seems to provide a clue as to where he might 604 00:33:15.720 --> 00:33:22.279 have obtained some of this information book though He's like, 605 00:33:24.319 --> 00:33:26.559 it feels that way. Unfortunately I can't. 606 00:33:29.359 --> 00:33:32.000 He dedicated this book to the Tavistock to. 607 00:33:32.079 --> 00:33:36.000 Two Tavistock alumni, Yeah, Gregorio Cahana Valley Shio. And he 608 00:33:36.119 --> 00:33:39.519 named his daughter Emma. One of her middle names is Valley. 609 00:33:39.640 --> 00:33:42.559 So he apparently these folks were good enough friends with 610 00:33:42.559 --> 00:33:44.720 with him and his family that that he named his 611 00:33:44.880 --> 00:33:49.480 daughter after Valley Shio. So it gives you something to 612 00:33:49.480 --> 00:33:49.960 think about. 613 00:33:50.039 --> 00:33:55.559 Yeah, you've located the epicenter of activity between Peter Strobe 614 00:33:55.559 --> 00:33:57.599 and the processed church cold activity via. 615 00:33:57.480 --> 00:34:01.799 The town books are fullish ship what well. 616 00:34:02.000 --> 00:34:04.480 I hated to find it out because I love his books. 617 00:34:04.480 --> 00:34:06.799 I mean, he there's no writer I love more than 618 00:34:07.079 --> 00:34:10.599 I mean, he was a brilliant storyteller, just an amazing writer. 619 00:34:10.840 --> 00:34:16.239 So I almost found it upsetting when I always knew 620 00:34:16.239 --> 00:34:18.480 there was something about ghost story, because all these links 621 00:34:18.519 --> 00:34:21.199 just kind of pop up at you. But but to 622 00:34:21.239 --> 00:34:24.039 the extent that it is, especially in that book, it 623 00:34:24.559 --> 00:34:27.000 really does. Once you sit down to think about it, 624 00:34:27.000 --> 00:34:28.400 it really is. It's disturbing. 625 00:34:29.239 --> 00:34:31.920 Well, there's no music I love more than the Laurel 626 00:34:32.039 --> 00:34:33.000 Canyon scene. 627 00:34:34.239 --> 00:34:35.960 It's the same way with that. It's just like so 628 00:34:36.039 --> 00:34:37.599 much of what you listen to and read you look 629 00:34:37.599 --> 00:34:39.800 at it and say, oh my god, all this stuff 630 00:34:39.880 --> 00:34:44.239 is connected to this, these horrible programs. But but yeah, 631 00:34:44.719 --> 00:34:46.239 the links unfortunately there. 632 00:34:47.119 --> 00:34:48.840 Yeah, our spot on. I got a couple, I got 633 00:34:48.840 --> 00:34:49.519 a couple of things on. 634 00:34:50.280 --> 00:34:54.119 Gradually, I said, who doesn't love the Beatles their Tavistock. 635 00:34:54.679 --> 00:34:57.480 Then there you go. I wasn't gonna say the Beatles 636 00:34:57.840 --> 00:34:59.559 were closed because I was gonna say Rolling Stones. I 637 00:34:59.559 --> 00:35:02.719 got a couple details on Deckford tonight's tale that include 638 00:35:02.760 --> 00:35:05.039 these some of these bands like like the Stones, right, 639 00:35:05.079 --> 00:35:07.400 the Process and Stones, or the Processing and Beatles for 640 00:35:07.400 --> 00:35:10.559 that matter, or the British Invasion. What what really was 641 00:35:10.599 --> 00:35:13.880 that British invasion? Right right? 642 00:35:14.039 --> 00:35:17.119 Well? Yeah, yeah, particularly with the Beatles because that was 643 00:35:17.159 --> 00:35:23.000 the one that that was their flagship group. Yeah. 644 00:35:23.519 --> 00:35:26.559 So I agree because you got Jane Asher, who's Paul 645 00:35:26.639 --> 00:35:31.599 McCartney's girlfriend and her brother is confirmed member and owner 646 00:35:31.639 --> 00:35:34.360 of the in a good coffee shop there in the 647 00:35:34.360 --> 00:35:37.960 Mayfair district of London where the Beatles are convening, and 648 00:35:38.760 --> 00:35:41.840 John Mutioco. And it's funny because Peter Asher goes on 649 00:35:41.880 --> 00:35:44.639 to be a major Hollywood music producer involved in the 650 00:35:44.639 --> 00:35:50.159 Diddy scandal, just saying and their cousin, their first cousin 651 00:35:50.280 --> 00:35:52.199 is I believe she's still alive there at the UH 652 00:35:53.400 --> 00:35:58.400 the processed Mothership and canab Utah she's a foundal member. 653 00:35:59.280 --> 00:35:59.519 Yes. 654 00:36:00.159 --> 00:36:03.840 So do you feel like they put aspects of like 655 00:36:05.559 --> 00:36:09.119 the important aspects from the book into the movie because 656 00:36:09.159 --> 00:36:12.599 there I did have a few questions about one or 657 00:36:12.639 --> 00:36:14.679 two things I picked up on from the movie. But 658 00:36:15.079 --> 00:36:16.880 do you feel like they left some of it out? 659 00:36:18.159 --> 00:36:20.400 I think Madge's interrojectal quick, Julie cau we put a 660 00:36:20.400 --> 00:36:21.920 pen in that real quick. That's one we'll get. We'll 661 00:36:21.920 --> 00:36:24.159 do the story here one second. I's want to close 662 00:36:24.159 --> 00:36:25.320 out these one more blog. 663 00:36:25.159 --> 00:36:27.760 Entry with John if you don't know, okay, sure, sure, So. 664 00:36:27.880 --> 00:36:29.719 Relative to this entry, John and I think that I 665 00:36:29.719 --> 00:36:33.360 think I found most intriguing, is my opinion. The first 666 00:36:33.360 --> 00:36:36.119 investigator into the process was Jim Garrison, the New Orleans 667 00:36:36.159 --> 00:36:39.400 District attorney. Based on his own you know, work and whatnot. 668 00:36:39.480 --> 00:36:42.280 When you're saying this, that stuff with the mcnut situation 669 00:36:42.360 --> 00:36:44.559 was popping off from the early seventies. He was running 670 00:36:44.679 --> 00:36:48.000 office in seventy three there in New Orleans. So I 671 00:36:48.039 --> 00:36:49.440 think that's an interesting time for him to look at 672 00:36:49.480 --> 00:36:51.800 around those activities in that, you know, relative to your 673 00:36:52.320 --> 00:36:54.079 McNutt mystery. You know, I think there is some other 674 00:36:54.119 --> 00:36:57.119 activities going on in New Orleans that may in fact 675 00:36:57.119 --> 00:36:59.719 be you know, interesting things to uncover. 676 00:37:00.239 --> 00:37:02.400 Absolutely, there was a lot happening down there, and things 677 00:37:02.440 --> 00:37:04.719 were happening in Yonkers at the same time, a lot 678 00:37:04.760 --> 00:37:06.119 of children were disappearing. 679 00:37:06.239 --> 00:37:11.239 So yeah, very interesting. So the quick quick highlight of 680 00:37:11.280 --> 00:37:13.440 we can on these before we do the film review, John, 681 00:37:13.840 --> 00:37:16.239 the true scope of this understand what what do you 682 00:37:16.280 --> 00:37:17.360 mean by the true scope? 683 00:37:17.880 --> 00:37:22.280 Yeah, well that's that's Walter Brown's mugshot or Ace Brown, 684 00:37:22.320 --> 00:37:27.039 the notorious Yonkers and he a lot of what we 685 00:37:27.199 --> 00:37:30.440 know about these other aspects of the case comes from Walter. 686 00:37:31.480 --> 00:37:35.599 And he he knew all these other people. He knew 687 00:37:35.679 --> 00:37:40.599 Sue Conway and all these important uh uh, you know, 688 00:37:40.679 --> 00:37:43.119 major figures in the Yonkers cult. 689 00:37:43.840 --> 00:37:45.320 And if I may, he also knew a lot of 690 00:37:45.360 --> 00:37:48.719 other folks, like he connects to the Dean Coral situation. 691 00:37:48.800 --> 00:37:51.199 But I'm not mistaken, right right, Julia, do you familiar 692 00:37:51.239 --> 00:37:59.840 with that? Uh, what's Coral. Yeah, what's the guy in 693 00:37:59.880 --> 00:38:04.559 the between those two Philip Pasky, Yeah, Norton maybe what's 694 00:38:04.559 --> 00:38:04.960 his name? 695 00:38:05.920 --> 00:38:08.480 Oh, you're talking about the guy with the pedo island 696 00:38:09.039 --> 00:38:10.719 Norman Norman. 697 00:38:10.880 --> 00:38:13.559 Well yeah, so well Norman's associates with I think Jasey 698 00:38:13.599 --> 00:38:15.280 and Coral, if I'm. 699 00:38:15.119 --> 00:38:17.559 Not mistaken, and also John Norman. 700 00:38:18.239 --> 00:38:20.079 Yeah, look at in a minute, and I don't want 701 00:38:20.079 --> 00:38:22.320 to get too diverted, but this dude is connected to 702 00:38:22.360 --> 00:38:23.719 a lot of stuff, is he not. He was connected 703 00:38:23.760 --> 00:38:25.280 to a different pedo network. 704 00:38:25.039 --> 00:38:28.960 Right, Yeah, yep, it was uh a network coming out 705 00:38:29.000 --> 00:38:32.320 of Dallas that they were all connected to. 706 00:38:32.559 --> 00:38:35.960 That moved to Chicago, right, because Norman moved to Dallas. 707 00:38:36.000 --> 00:38:37.920 Then goes He's like the next day he's got a 708 00:38:37.960 --> 00:38:40.800 whole new ten thousand note cards full of customers and 709 00:38:40.800 --> 00:38:41.920 clients in this Chicago. 710 00:38:42.119 --> 00:38:44.199 That is correct, Yep, that is correct. 711 00:38:44.559 --> 00:38:47.119 So I apologize there the distracted there, John, if you 712 00:38:47.199 --> 00:38:50.239 if you may continue on about your uh your blog post. 713 00:38:50.239 --> 00:38:52.440 You're about East Brown, because he is a very important character, 714 00:38:52.519 --> 00:38:52.840 is he not? 715 00:38:53.800 --> 00:38:58.360 Yeah? He was. He was when Maury typed up what 716 00:38:58.400 --> 00:39:01.159 he called his flipper list, when Yonkers had sort of 717 00:39:01.239 --> 00:39:06.559 uneasily reopened the case in the mid nineties. The people 718 00:39:06.559 --> 00:39:08.480 that Mary felt they needed to flip to get the 719 00:39:08.519 --> 00:39:12.159 case to a grand jury were well, Ace Brown was 720 00:39:12.280 --> 00:39:16.079 number one, Sue Conway was number two. She's my sort 721 00:39:16.079 --> 00:39:19.039 of pet suspect. I'm fascinated by her. I've done a 722 00:39:19.079 --> 00:39:21.880 lot of research on her. And then so many other 723 00:39:22.800 --> 00:39:26.320 people that were associated with the Yonker's Cult even before 724 00:39:26.360 --> 00:39:29.239 the Process came into the picture, they were on that 725 00:39:29.320 --> 00:39:29.920 list too. 726 00:39:30.599 --> 00:39:33.079 And well, so this was you're saying, this was a 727 00:39:33.559 --> 00:39:36.360 you know, like a pre existing operation that the Process 728 00:39:36.480 --> 00:39:38.719 kind of co opted the right. 729 00:39:38.639 --> 00:39:41.239 Right, Yeah, the Yonker's Cult had been there for many years, 730 00:39:41.320 --> 00:39:44.880 and they apparently, well, the Process started to call the 731 00:39:44.880 --> 00:39:47.880 shots in the late sixties or early seventies. And so 732 00:39:47.960 --> 00:39:50.480 by the early seventies when all these kids are starting 733 00:39:50.519 --> 00:39:54.679 to disappear, primarily from the Graham School and Orphanage in Hastings, 734 00:39:54.679 --> 00:39:59.400 which is a neighboring towns, it's the Process who's controlling 735 00:39:59.760 --> 00:40:01.000 the action by that time. 736 00:40:01.960 --> 00:40:04.440 Yeah, so they were, if I if I'm hearing you currently, 737 00:40:04.519 --> 00:40:07.079 they were after orphans. 738 00:40:07.440 --> 00:40:10.760 Yeah, yeah, they've from what John Carr told Paul Raine Eery, 739 00:40:12.400 --> 00:40:15.000 they took a lot of children from the gram School 740 00:40:15.039 --> 00:40:20.000 because they were orphans and they John's rationale for the 741 00:40:20.039 --> 00:40:22.679 cult doing that was that the kids wouldn't be missed. 742 00:40:22.760 --> 00:40:25.480 Nobody really tried to keep track of them, even the 743 00:40:25.519 --> 00:40:28.559 school didn't try to find out what had happened to 744 00:40:28.599 --> 00:40:29.079 the kids. 745 00:40:30.039 --> 00:40:34.440 Much like the Franklin scandal. Yeah, with the boys town. 746 00:40:34.559 --> 00:40:37.920 It's like that. Yeah, just convenient disappearances of kids that 747 00:40:37.960 --> 00:40:39.960 nobody really cares about. It is trying to take care 748 00:40:40.000 --> 00:40:42.280 of it. It's it's really it's sad. 749 00:40:42.679 --> 00:40:48.880 Save pat or behavior. Right, Yeah, what's that? What's that? 750 00:40:48.960 --> 00:40:51.360 Julia I said they love orphanages. 751 00:40:51.760 --> 00:40:53.280 Yeah, it's true. 752 00:40:53.280 --> 00:40:55.440 Oh well yeah, it's lack of accountability, right, No one's 753 00:40:55.440 --> 00:40:58.239 paying attention. So I like that you've quot you highlighted this, 754 00:40:58.280 --> 00:41:02.280 so like this, Brown said in December of nineteen ninety six, 755 00:41:02.880 --> 00:41:05.840 it's a direct quotation for Mauric's files. Ace Brown said, 756 00:41:05.960 --> 00:41:09.079 I was told kids were buried there, referring to Untramer 757 00:41:09.159 --> 00:41:11.519 Park and Yonkers. And he's not the only person to 758 00:41:11.519 --> 00:41:12.039 say that, is he. 759 00:41:12.639 --> 00:41:17.039 That's right. Multiple witnesses or sources told police the same thing. 760 00:41:18.079 --> 00:41:22.639 Sue Conway said that too. She said she heard that 761 00:41:23.440 --> 00:41:26.360 kids were buried there. I would imagine she presided over 762 00:41:26.559 --> 00:41:30.360 at least some of those sacrifices and burials firsthand, because 763 00:41:30.360 --> 00:41:31.760 that's the kind of person she was. 764 00:41:32.639 --> 00:41:35.280 But yeah, Conway, yeah yeah, And. 765 00:41:35.280 --> 00:41:37.880 Multiple sources told the police that same thing, that children 766 00:41:37.920 --> 00:41:41.159 had been sacrificed in rituals and then buried in the park. 767 00:41:41.639 --> 00:41:42.280 That's true. 768 00:41:42.920 --> 00:41:45.199 Interesting, And Sue Conway met in early demise. 769 00:41:44.920 --> 00:41:47.960 Right, well, no, she. 770 00:41:47.480 --> 00:41:49.159 That's the one that that's when they died of cancer. 771 00:41:49.159 --> 00:41:51.639 I always play a guessing game with you, John, Who's 772 00:41:51.679 --> 00:41:53.199 who's a lie? She was? 773 00:41:53.360 --> 00:41:56.480 Yeah? Yeah, she Sue. She was apparently was very ill 774 00:41:56.679 --> 00:41:59.000 in the years leading up to her death. But she 775 00:41:59.119 --> 00:42:01.039 had she had lived really hard. You know, a lot 776 00:42:01.039 --> 00:42:02.559 of a lot of drugs, a lot of alcohol. 777 00:42:02.679 --> 00:42:04.119 But she. 778 00:42:06.039 --> 00:42:08.800 Two thousand or early two, I forget what. I think 779 00:42:08.800 --> 00:42:12.800 it was January of two thousand and Uh. Yes, she 780 00:42:12.960 --> 00:42:16.400 was something else. She really is. She's kind of a 781 00:42:16.440 --> 00:42:17.639 movie under herself. 782 00:42:18.960 --> 00:42:20.440 So let me ask you all this. This is John 783 00:42:20.480 --> 00:42:23.960 David David Norman, the the Deadler Fellow operation from Dallas 784 00:42:24.000 --> 00:42:26.960 to Chicago, who's a saysions with Phil Pasky, who worked 785 00:42:26.960 --> 00:42:30.199 for John Wayne Gacy and Ace Brown apparently ties into 786 00:42:30.239 --> 00:42:32.679 Norman from my understanding as well, and there and that 787 00:42:32.760 --> 00:42:35.760 they have links. And isn't it interesting that John Mnieri 788 00:42:35.880 --> 00:42:41.079 would know uh, would would be familiar with uh Jeffrey Dahmer, 789 00:42:41.119 --> 00:42:43.840 and Dahmer and Gasey both had uh you know uh 790 00:42:44.199 --> 00:42:48.159 uh recruited their victims from the same gay club. What 791 00:42:48.280 --> 00:42:50.519 is this weird? You see these weird epicenters of act. 792 00:42:50.559 --> 00:42:52.079 I mean, it's a lot of details. I understand a 793 00:42:52.079 --> 00:42:54.960 lot of Ann's couple, what have you, But it seems 794 00:42:54.960 --> 00:42:56.559 like all these people know each other and I know 795 00:42:56.599 --> 00:42:58.079 what they say, we don't know each other, but it 796 00:42:58.079 --> 00:43:00.679 seems like all these part of network. 797 00:43:00.840 --> 00:43:04.039 I'm just telling John that before we got started today 798 00:43:04.119 --> 00:43:07.000 that all of these assholes are part of a network, 799 00:43:07.079 --> 00:43:11.199 and there's multiple assailants they but all the crimes get 800 00:43:11.239 --> 00:43:14.719 blamed on one guy. He's like the scapegoat guy. But 801 00:43:14.880 --> 00:43:17.599 there are there are so many people who are getting 802 00:43:17.599 --> 00:43:20.280 away with it and then their crimes just get attributed 803 00:43:20.320 --> 00:43:23.639 to Let's say one John Wayne gase you are one 804 00:43:24.119 --> 00:43:29.039 Dean Coral, one Jeffrey Dahmer. But there are several weirdo 805 00:43:29.280 --> 00:43:35.239 kid diddling, pedophilic, cannibalistic serial killers amongst us. And most 806 00:43:35.280 --> 00:43:37.239 of the time we don't even know who they are. 807 00:43:37.840 --> 00:43:39.440 You ain't kid, and Julia, you ain't kidding. 808 00:43:39.800 --> 00:43:42.039 Yep, It's true, And there has to be a network. 809 00:43:42.079 --> 00:43:43.760 It just doesn't make sense any other way. 810 00:43:43.880 --> 00:43:45.519 One hundred yeah. 811 00:43:45.719 --> 00:43:45.920 Yeah. 812 00:43:45.960 --> 00:43:48.079 And you know I like a network that may be 813 00:43:48.400 --> 00:43:52.079 like covered up under the auspices of national security. 814 00:43:52.679 --> 00:43:57.440 Absolutely absolutely, because in the ben Rose case, the CIA 815 00:43:57.599 --> 00:44:00.719 pleated national security. They say, we don't have to testify 816 00:44:00.800 --> 00:44:03.320 before this committee. So that was the end of them, 817 00:44:03.360 --> 00:44:03.599 you know. 818 00:44:04.800 --> 00:44:07.199 And how is that any different than the current Epstein 819 00:44:07.280 --> 00:44:09.079 situation with matters of national security? 820 00:44:09.199 --> 00:44:11.039 Right right? Right? 821 00:44:12.440 --> 00:44:15.039 Oh my gosh. I can't even tell you how much 822 00:44:15.079 --> 00:44:17.000 I love being on a panel with people who know 823 00:44:17.079 --> 00:44:18.760 what the fact they're talking about. 824 00:44:19.920 --> 00:44:22.679 Well, you're you know, you're always welcome here in Operations 825 00:44:22.679 --> 00:44:24.440 C C. D. And John is as well. So I 826 00:44:24.639 --> 00:44:27.280 appreciate both your all time and and the folks of innerwebs. 827 00:44:27.320 --> 00:44:29.559 And I got one more. We'll close out actually with 828 00:44:29.599 --> 00:44:32.519 the death Mask murder if you don't mind, John will 829 00:44:32.559 --> 00:44:36.320 just jump into the ghost story right because you did 830 00:44:36.320 --> 00:44:39.320 this blog post, which is what motivated me to You 831 00:44:39.360 --> 00:44:41.079 brought it, You brought these things in my attention to 832 00:44:41.119 --> 00:44:43.679 be a conversation and this blog post, and it might 833 00:44:43.679 --> 00:44:46.079 have even me to put this panel together tonight and 834 00:44:46.079 --> 00:44:47.679 to watch the film. And I do appreciate you, sir, 835 00:44:47.760 --> 00:44:50.760 because I did enjoy the film. I didn't wasn't like again, 836 00:44:50.800 --> 00:44:53.880 it's not really my genre, so you know, I didn't 837 00:44:53.920 --> 00:44:55.280 expect to enjoy it as much as I do. 838 00:44:56.960 --> 00:44:59.480 It's interesting because there are some things in there that 839 00:44:59.840 --> 00:45:06.280 are her important items from the book that did make 840 00:45:06.320 --> 00:45:07.320 it into the movie. 841 00:45:07.679 --> 00:45:09.639 There you go, let's start there, because I know Julia 842 00:45:09.679 --> 00:45:10.760 had those same questions for you. 843 00:45:11.320 --> 00:45:20.880 Yeah. Yeah, What did survive were the strangeness of the 844 00:45:21.000 --> 00:45:24.559 villain or the villain s who is played by Alice Kreese. 845 00:45:27.960 --> 00:45:30.599 I think she's the single best part of the movie 846 00:45:30.679 --> 00:45:33.840 because all the strange stuff that happens in the book, 847 00:45:33.880 --> 00:45:39.599 the really creepy stuff Alice Kreese transmits through her performance. 848 00:45:40.000 --> 00:45:41.960 I don't know if she ever actually read the book, 849 00:45:42.039 --> 00:45:45.920 but she's she's the thing in the in the film 850 00:45:46.000 --> 00:45:50.079 that is most like the novel. So she's her performance 851 00:45:50.159 --> 00:45:51.079 is really interesting. 852 00:45:53.239 --> 00:45:54.800 So that's interesting they would leave that out of the book. 853 00:45:54.800 --> 00:45:58.239 That's a great comment there. Appreciate that there because the 854 00:45:58.639 --> 00:46:01.920 fuzz one was another party who witnessed these activities, and 855 00:46:02.000 --> 00:46:05.880 that's right, another independent you know, recollection and accounts of 856 00:46:05.960 --> 00:46:11.199 these same uh, murderous and ritualistic activities of things being things, 857 00:46:11.239 --> 00:46:14.360 people being buried in around these parks. 858 00:46:14.079 --> 00:46:22.039 Right right, that's right, And I the testimony is really overwhelmed. 859 00:46:22.039 --> 00:46:26.920 I mean, something happened in under my park. People were 860 00:46:27.039 --> 00:46:30.360 killed there, people died in that park, and the only 861 00:46:30.440 --> 00:46:35.920 thing that that stopped the investigation was the fact that 862 00:46:36.599 --> 00:46:40.719 the police and Yonkers evidently felt that an investigation would 863 00:46:40.840 --> 00:46:43.239 lead right back to their doorstep, and they were worried 864 00:46:43.280 --> 00:46:47.679 about their own skins, so they shut down the investigation. 865 00:46:47.960 --> 00:46:52.199 So it does remind me also of the Finders, because 866 00:46:52.280 --> 00:46:57.280 they were spotted numerous times in parks, taking kids, kids 867 00:46:57.320 --> 00:47:02.119 in vans, kids being transported god knows where. 868 00:47:02.559 --> 00:47:06.400 But also, well, Julia, those are matters of national security. 869 00:47:06.760 --> 00:47:09.880 Right, yeah, the Finders, well. 870 00:47:11.280 --> 00:47:11.480 Too. 871 00:47:11.639 --> 00:47:16.199 John's point about Alice Kreeg is that how you say 872 00:47:16.239 --> 00:47:16.920 her last name. 873 00:47:17.679 --> 00:47:19.800 I've heard it pronounce creege, but then I've heard it 874 00:47:19.880 --> 00:47:23.159 preese various ways, so I'm never sure which one is. 875 00:47:23.840 --> 00:47:26.320 I just settled on one, but it may not be 876 00:47:26.400 --> 00:47:27.159 the correct one. 877 00:47:27.679 --> 00:47:30.360 She's awesome in this movie. I would agree with you. 878 00:47:30.519 --> 00:47:34.320 She's the creepiest aspect of the entire movie. She's She's 879 00:47:34.360 --> 00:47:37.639 actually in several horror movies. I think that's just her genre. 880 00:47:37.840 --> 00:47:41.239 She's most recently in a couple of Star Trek movies, 881 00:47:41.280 --> 00:47:47.800 I think. But so, she was super hot in this movie, 882 00:47:48.480 --> 00:47:53.119 proverbial hot eighties chick in this movie. But there was 883 00:47:53.320 --> 00:47:57.559 like this weird I don't know if it was like 884 00:47:57.599 --> 00:48:02.920 this in the book, but she almost seemed like a 885 00:48:02.960 --> 00:48:05.719 witch or something throughout the. 886 00:48:06.400 --> 00:48:08.920 Yeah, And that's what's so great about her performance because 887 00:48:09.199 --> 00:48:14.519 it you get the now in the book, the character 888 00:48:14.599 --> 00:48:18.679 that she plays in the film, she's much more than 889 00:48:18.840 --> 00:48:22.840 just a person who has been reincarnated or whatever. She 890 00:48:23.039 --> 00:48:25.320 has a history, and she has it with these old 891 00:48:25.639 --> 00:48:28.880 men in the chatter society. And they never come right 892 00:48:28.920 --> 00:48:33.199 out and say that there's an additional history in the film, 893 00:48:33.760 --> 00:48:37.559 but just the subtlety of her performance gives you the 894 00:48:37.599 --> 00:48:40.840 impression that there's more history there. Like that scene where 895 00:48:40.840 --> 00:48:42.840 she's holding her head under the water in the back, 896 00:48:42.880 --> 00:48:45.119 it's just so we and that's so much like the 897 00:48:45.199 --> 00:48:48.559 character in the book, you know, just inexplicably odd and 898 00:48:48.599 --> 00:48:51.920 like to the point where the boyfriend is like, his 899 00:48:52.039 --> 00:48:54.880 nerves are so shaky that he just he almost can't 900 00:48:54.880 --> 00:48:56.320 be in the same room with her anymore. 901 00:48:57.239 --> 00:49:00.920 Yeah, gives you the creeps, and he's like, you know, 902 00:49:02.199 --> 00:49:05.400 just touch her, even her skin feels cold. You know, 903 00:49:06.079 --> 00:49:10.199 there's just like this weird witch, witchy thing. Yes about her. 904 00:49:10.960 --> 00:49:12.639 Absolutely, and so. 905 00:49:12.760 --> 00:49:15.079 Was that not in the go ahead? Was that was 906 00:49:15.079 --> 00:49:17.519 that great? Go ahead? 907 00:49:17.920 --> 00:49:21.519 Oh? I was just gonna say that is she fortunately 908 00:49:21.559 --> 00:49:25.559 or unfortunately that character had a real life counterpart, And 909 00:49:25.599 --> 00:49:26.119 that was. 910 00:49:27.480 --> 00:49:28.320 What I was going to ask you. 911 00:49:28.559 --> 00:49:32.400 That's what's so spooky. And you find that there's a 912 00:49:32.440 --> 00:49:36.239 photo comparison of Sue from its two photos a decade apart. 913 00:49:36.760 --> 00:49:39.280 But you see in the latter photo of Sue with 914 00:49:39.360 --> 00:49:42.119 the long brown hair, I think you see a lot 915 00:49:42.280 --> 00:49:47.840 of Eva Galley Alma mobile Anna Mosstin in that photo 916 00:49:47.880 --> 00:49:50.599 of her. And in fact, even in the book, physically 917 00:49:50.679 --> 00:49:53.880 that character the description of her is obviously modeled on 918 00:49:53.960 --> 00:49:57.239 Sue Conway. I think Stroud must have met her at 919 00:49:57.239 --> 00:50:01.320 some point, but I can't confirm that, but he definitely 920 00:50:01.360 --> 00:50:04.199 saw photos over her and she was she was the 921 00:50:04.280 --> 00:50:09.199 model for Eva almah Anna in the book and the film. 922 00:50:10.920 --> 00:50:15.199 Do you think the real right she Yeah, the picture 923 00:50:15.239 --> 00:50:15.840 of her is there. 924 00:50:18.559 --> 00:50:21.039 I was just gonna say, do you think the real 925 00:50:21.199 --> 00:50:24.119 person to Conway? You think she's a witch? You think 926 00:50:24.199 --> 00:50:25.880 she's sent to some dark ship? 927 00:50:26.519 --> 00:50:29.159 She was, Yeah, she was. She was. There was a 928 00:50:29.199 --> 00:50:35.119 source who when Maury did an Unsolved Mystery segment about 929 00:50:35.159 --> 00:50:37.960 the Son of Sam back in the late eighties, a 930 00:50:38.039 --> 00:50:44.079 source called the Unsolved Mysteries UH hotline thereafter and referred 931 00:50:44.079 --> 00:50:46.519 to her as he said, I knew people who knew her. 932 00:50:46.920 --> 00:50:50.000 She literally was the high priestess of the cult, that's 933 00:50:50.000 --> 00:50:52.440 what they called her. So she yeah, she was. She 934 00:50:52.559 --> 00:50:54.559 was actually into all that stuff, and she was serious 935 00:50:54.639 --> 00:50:55.400 about I. 936 00:50:55.519 --> 00:50:59.119 Knew it, dude, I knew it. Just the way that 937 00:50:59.280 --> 00:51:03.280 they traded in the movie. There was like some weird 938 00:51:03.400 --> 00:51:06.079 witchy thing about her. Yeah. 939 00:51:06.800 --> 00:51:08.960 Because there's like a mind control aspect too, right with 940 00:51:09.039 --> 00:51:11.079 the two right before I don't want to go too far, 941 00:51:11.119 --> 00:51:12.639 and before we get to all the characters, there's a 942 00:51:12.679 --> 00:51:15.559 mind she's got some sort of spell over some some 943 00:51:15.559 --> 00:51:21.639 some hood rats, right, that's right, that's right, some hoodlums, you. 944 00:51:21.679 --> 00:51:24.239 Will, And there she is that that second photo. I 945 00:51:24.280 --> 00:51:28.079 believe you a lot of what's strange about that character 946 00:51:28.119 --> 00:51:30.559 in the book. In the film, you see in Sue's 947 00:51:30.599 --> 00:51:33.960 photo there she she she really was something else. She was. 948 00:51:35.159 --> 00:51:36.880 She made an impression on a lot of people. 949 00:51:37.679 --> 00:51:39.920 I agree, the resemblance is uncanny. 950 00:51:39.960 --> 00:51:46.320 From the film, Yeah, well she I think I think 951 00:51:46.360 --> 00:51:47.880 one of the things they did look for in the 952 00:51:47.880 --> 00:51:50.159 film when they were auditioning people for the role of 953 00:51:50.199 --> 00:51:53.760 Eva of Almah was somebody with that long, straight hair. 954 00:51:53.920 --> 00:51:58.079 Somehow that is integral to the whole character. If you 955 00:51:58.159 --> 00:52:01.400 had had somebody with short hair or something, it wouldn't 956 00:52:01.400 --> 00:52:04.760 have worked for whatever reason. It's that kind of hair 957 00:52:05.079 --> 00:52:08.280 just goes with all the other aspects of the character 958 00:52:08.400 --> 00:52:09.519 for for whatever reason. 959 00:52:10.119 --> 00:52:13.840 I also in the film, she has the eyes, like 960 00:52:13.920 --> 00:52:19.320 look at the eyes, right, Yeah, well, I was gonna 961 00:52:19.320 --> 00:52:21.119 say it's and it's the same color eyes. 962 00:52:21.159 --> 00:52:22.599 I mean, they're the same kind of they have the 963 00:52:22.599 --> 00:52:24.280 same shape if you will. 964 00:52:24.639 --> 00:52:27.559 Yeah, right, Yeah, there's something about the eyes too. It's 965 00:52:27.599 --> 00:52:30.480 like they picked her because she could. She can almost 966 00:52:30.480 --> 00:52:33.119 put you in a trance just looking at her, you 967 00:52:33.159 --> 00:52:33.599 know what I mean. 968 00:52:33.719 --> 00:52:38.320 I think she did, man, I think she did. Yeah, 969 00:52:38.360 --> 00:52:41.199 that's intriguing. So let's do a quick since we're going 970 00:52:41.239 --> 00:52:43.800 over kind of the characters. Let's go back and revisit 971 00:52:44.079 --> 00:52:47.480 the storyline we're dealing with here. Would you like to 972 00:52:47.480 --> 00:52:51.239 to explain the synopsis? And and uh, you know, however 973 00:52:51.280 --> 00:52:52.960 you see it, They're they're gentle. Would like me to 974 00:52:53.239 --> 00:52:55.840 read it from the Wikipedia, the source of all information 975 00:52:55.880 --> 00:52:56.719 on the interwebs. 976 00:52:57.119 --> 00:52:59.559 Sure, I can. I can synopsize it just briefly. 977 00:53:01.000 --> 00:53:01.239 Nice. 978 00:53:02.760 --> 00:53:08.360 Sure. In the novel, it's a fictional, allegedly fictional town 979 00:53:08.400 --> 00:53:10.719 called Milburn. It's supposed to be in upstate New York. 980 00:53:11.960 --> 00:53:14.239 In the film, if if I remember correctly, they don't 981 00:53:14.280 --> 00:53:18.559 actually name the city, but it was filmed in Vermont somewhere. 982 00:53:18.960 --> 00:53:21.639 What I believe is from from my understanding, what's like 983 00:53:21.960 --> 00:53:24.400 one of the locations one of them. 984 00:53:23.840 --> 00:53:26.679 And there was a real town square that they used. 985 00:53:26.679 --> 00:53:28.400 But a lot of the backgrounds you see are just 986 00:53:28.440 --> 00:53:31.119 like really elaborate matte paintings, which is another thing that 987 00:53:31.159 --> 00:53:34.719 I really like about the movie, really really beautiful backgrounds. 988 00:53:35.280 --> 00:53:37.679 I forget who the painter was, and I'm sorry about 989 00:53:37.679 --> 00:53:40.360 that because he deserves a lot of credit. But uh, 990 00:53:41.559 --> 00:53:45.400 the the town is it's supposed to be like a 991 00:53:45.440 --> 00:53:48.719 little sleepy small town, you know, and there there's a 992 00:53:48.719 --> 00:53:54.360 group of older men, affluent men. A couple of attorneys. 993 00:53:54.840 --> 00:53:59.639 That's Sears James and Ricky Hawthorne. There's a doctor, or 994 00:54:01.239 --> 00:54:03.639 is he I think he's he's thinking about retirement, but 995 00:54:03.679 --> 00:54:06.440 he's he's technically still in business. That's doctor John Jeffrey. 996 00:54:07.199 --> 00:54:09.760 And there's the mayor of the town. And this is 997 00:54:09.760 --> 00:54:12.280 slightly different because in the book there were five characters 998 00:54:12.800 --> 00:54:15.239 and in the film there are four characters. So they 999 00:54:15.360 --> 00:54:18.559 rolled two of the characters into one another. And the 1000 00:54:18.599 --> 00:54:24.599 mayor is that's Douglas Fairbanks character. He's he's ned right, 1001 00:54:24.719 --> 00:54:28.599 that's uh and and I believe he's he's the first 1002 00:54:28.599 --> 00:54:31.239 one to go in the film. But these men all 1003 00:54:31.280 --> 00:54:36.480 share ghost stories with each other. They get together in 1004 00:54:36.920 --> 00:54:41.360 formal evening where one Friday night out of every month, 1005 00:54:41.360 --> 00:54:44.239 and they tell each other ghost stories. But they're doing 1006 00:54:44.280 --> 00:54:49.000 this to cover the real story that they're actually afraid 1007 00:54:49.000 --> 00:54:51.079 of and that they're afraid to talk about with each other. 1008 00:54:51.639 --> 00:54:55.079 And that story unfolds gradually, you know, throughout the course 1009 00:54:55.119 --> 00:54:59.440 of the film. But they they all share a terrible secret. 1010 00:54:59.599 --> 00:55:02.119 Something happened to them all one evening when they were 1011 00:55:02.239 --> 00:55:04.760 very young in the late nineteen twenties, and that's uh, 1012 00:55:05.400 --> 00:55:08.480 that event comes back to haunt them, and that's that's 1013 00:55:08.559 --> 00:55:10.119 what the book and the film are about. 1014 00:55:11.599 --> 00:55:14.639 Yeah, and it's like it's got an interesting dynamico. That's 1015 00:55:14.639 --> 00:55:16.960 a good explanation, I sir, I appreciate it. That's sure. 1016 00:55:17.000 --> 00:55:19.000 That One of the things I found interesting was this 1017 00:55:19.199 --> 00:55:22.480 this towing between reality. What is reality and what is 1018 00:55:23.000 --> 00:55:26.320 not reality? Like what's hallucination? Right, and what's causing these 1019 00:55:26.400 --> 00:55:28.360 dusts and what's not called like is it an external 1020 00:55:28.400 --> 00:55:30.440 force or is an internal force in their nightmares of 1021 00:55:30.480 --> 00:55:31.519 their heart attacks? Right? 1022 00:55:32.079 --> 00:55:33.280 Right? Right? 1023 00:55:34.039 --> 00:55:36.519 Tows that line pretty well, it does, it. 1024 00:55:36.440 --> 00:55:40.960 Does because that that's uh, I believe in. In the 1025 00:55:41.559 --> 00:55:46.400 book and the film, somebody sees the first casualty jumping 1026 00:55:46.480 --> 00:55:49.360 off the bridge, so uh, and then another one later 1027 00:55:49.400 --> 00:55:51.320 dies of a heart attack. So there are things that 1028 00:55:51.360 --> 00:55:55.159 could be chalked up to just mental distress or physical illness, 1029 00:55:55.280 --> 00:55:58.880 and nobody really suspects what's actually happening. 1030 00:55:59.000 --> 00:56:02.760 Yeah, So the film starts off that's a good good 1031 00:56:02.760 --> 00:56:04.679 point there, And the film starts off with the first 1032 00:56:04.679 --> 00:56:06.360 death we get there is the son of one of 1033 00:56:06.400 --> 00:56:10.599 these characters, right, that's right, that's right, And we're forced 1034 00:56:10.639 --> 00:56:12.559 to see his dick because he's falling out a building. 1035 00:56:12.960 --> 00:56:17.840 Some terrible Yeah. Yeah, and that's an odd. 1036 00:56:16.960 --> 00:56:19.480 I wasn't expecting the full dick shot. I was kind 1037 00:56:19.480 --> 00:56:21.880 of again angry that I was subjected to this, especially 1038 00:56:21.920 --> 00:56:23.960 with that woman. 1039 00:56:23.519 --> 00:56:27.079 You know, yeah, that that is probably the weirdest shot 1040 00:56:27.079 --> 00:56:29.039 in the whole movie, just because you're not expecting it. 1041 00:56:29.079 --> 00:56:32.239 There's no reason, there's no point in it right in there, 1042 00:56:32.239 --> 00:56:35.079 but yeah, yeah, it's pointless. And then they show the 1043 00:56:35.119 --> 00:56:36.880 body flop. I'm like, well, did we have to do 1044 00:56:36.880 --> 00:56:38.280 the flop too? Like the bounce? 1045 00:56:38.880 --> 00:56:39.119 Right? 1046 00:56:39.960 --> 00:56:40.400 Yeah? 1047 00:56:41.320 --> 00:56:44.119 Yeah, I guess it was one of those moments that 1048 00:56:44.159 --> 00:56:45.679 they just wanted it to be a you know, a 1049 00:56:45.719 --> 00:56:47.440 deliberate shock to the audience. 1050 00:56:47.519 --> 00:56:49.320 You know, well that there you go and say, and 1051 00:56:49.400 --> 00:56:52.119 it does too. It grasped your attention because of that 1052 00:56:52.119 --> 00:56:54.320 that shock factor. For sure. It got me good. And 1053 00:56:54.440 --> 00:56:56.599 I'm like, who, motherfuckers, did you guys just show me 1054 00:56:56.639 --> 00:56:58.679 a dick and a dude bouncing off the pavement? What's 1055 00:56:58.719 --> 00:57:03.880 wrong with you? That was my immediate reaction. I was like, 1056 00:57:03.880 --> 00:57:06.119 how processing of you folks to do that? Right? 1057 00:57:06.400 --> 00:57:09.400 Yeah? Well that that definitely is the point in the 1058 00:57:09.400 --> 00:57:11.960 movie where you know that really terrible things are going 1059 00:57:12.039 --> 00:57:16.599 to happen throughout the rest of it. So, yeah, it 1060 00:57:16.639 --> 00:57:17.039 does have that. 1061 00:57:17.199 --> 00:57:20.679 It does set the stage properly correct. Yeah, yeah, so 1062 00:57:21.039 --> 00:57:23.280 I'm now that'll be related the groundwork there on the 1063 00:57:23.480 --> 00:57:25.199 plot line. I just want to I just want to 1064 00:57:25.320 --> 00:57:27.119 ask you this one question before we go any further 1065 00:57:27.119 --> 00:57:29.719 in the characters and whatnot and how this thing's unfold. 1066 00:57:30.039 --> 00:57:34.800 There was a nineteen seventy four film also name Ghost Story. 1067 00:57:35.360 --> 00:57:38.039 Mm hmm, Storry mary Anne Faithful. 1068 00:57:39.679 --> 00:57:40.280 That's interesting. 1069 00:57:40.440 --> 00:57:43.840 I'm not familiar with it, but is it the same story. 1070 00:57:44.800 --> 00:57:47.400 No, it's not the same story, but it's interesting. There's 1071 00:57:47.400 --> 00:57:50.360 some interesting aspects to it, at the least of which Marianne. 1072 00:57:49.880 --> 00:57:52.679 Faithful she's process. 1073 00:57:53.760 --> 00:57:56.599 Yeah, she and Mick Jagger both and all the browing stones. 1074 00:57:57.119 --> 00:58:00.360 In fact, John and I discussed an interesting murder rounding 1075 00:58:00.400 --> 00:58:02.880 these these folks in Westchester County, you know that Dean 1076 00:58:02.960 --> 00:58:06.800 of Inequity north of New York City. Last time we 1077 00:58:06.840 --> 00:58:09.480 discussed this because we discussed the the and John, I'll 1078 00:58:09.519 --> 00:58:11.480 have more details for a Julia is that But it's 1079 00:58:11.519 --> 00:58:15.880 the Keith Richard's domestic wife or girlfriend related murder, right, John. 1080 00:58:16.519 --> 00:58:20.400 That's right, Yeah, Anita Pallenberg. Yeah, but all those folks 1081 00:58:20.519 --> 00:58:23.039 they did the process that they were just like the 1082 00:58:23.400 --> 00:58:29.199 father Church Scientology. They courted celebrities and you know the process. 1083 00:58:29.280 --> 00:58:33.320 They went after the younger, hipper versions of celebrities that 1084 00:58:33.559 --> 00:58:37.119 you know, just just like the Scientology did, you know, 1085 00:58:37.159 --> 00:58:40.880 more established you know, like yeah, room stars and stuff. 1086 00:58:40.880 --> 00:58:44.599 But yeah, and Marianne Faithful in particular, I believe she 1087 00:58:44.599 --> 00:58:47.920 she got pretty cozy with with the Processed Church, I believe, 1088 00:58:48.679 --> 00:58:51.280 mmmmm yeah. 1089 00:58:51.559 --> 00:58:55.719 And then Keith Richards's wife, they're murdered a fifteen year old. 1090 00:58:55.800 --> 00:58:57.920 I'm sorry, a gun went off when she was in 1091 00:58:57.960 --> 00:58:59.719 bed naked with a fifteen year old, is that right? 1092 00:59:00.079 --> 00:59:02.079 That is correct? Yeah, he was in her bed and 1093 00:59:02.400 --> 00:59:07.280 his name was Scott Cantrell and he she she got 1094 00:59:07.320 --> 00:59:11.519 off for that whole thing very very easily, and I 1095 00:59:11.599 --> 00:59:15.920 know that the boys family were very upset about that. 1096 00:59:17.320 --> 00:59:20.840 But it was a very strange incident for. 1097 00:59:20.800 --> 00:59:24.559 Sure, due a gun went off accidentally. Is that the story? 1098 00:59:24.760 --> 00:59:26.679 Yeah, Well, she claims that he was he was playing 1099 00:59:26.760 --> 00:59:29.519 Russian Roulette, that he was upset and suicidal and that 1100 00:59:29.599 --> 00:59:31.400 he you know, he's just the gun went off and 1101 00:59:31.400 --> 00:59:36.400 he shot himself, but it doesn't appear that the circumstances 1102 00:59:36.440 --> 00:59:39.480 were ever examined too closely in court to me anyway. 1103 00:59:39.599 --> 00:59:43.880 Sure, wow, and this was nineteen eighty, seventy nine or 1104 00:59:43.920 --> 00:59:44.760 eighty or something like that. 1105 00:59:45.280 --> 00:59:46.239 Yeah, that's right. 1106 00:59:46.440 --> 00:59:50.800 Yep. So after after Burka, which this is again this 1107 00:59:51.159 --> 00:59:54.280 falls into the post son of Sam called activity in 1108 00:59:54.360 --> 00:59:56.760 around that didn't of an equity Westchester County. 1109 00:59:57.159 --> 00:59:59.440 That's right, Yeah, Sue. 1110 00:59:59.519 --> 01:00:02.519 Do you think I think this secret society as they 1111 01:00:02.559 --> 01:00:07.519 call it, quote unquote in the book Slash movie is 1112 01:00:07.639 --> 01:00:11.880 based on anything real because they call themselves the Chowder 1113 01:00:12.679 --> 01:00:13.880 Society like. 1114 01:00:14.480 --> 01:00:17.559 They just about that because there were there was a 1115 01:00:17.599 --> 01:00:22.599 group of allegedly in the cult during the fifties and sixties. 1116 01:00:23.159 --> 01:00:26.119 There were a lot of figures of that type involved 1117 01:00:26.159 --> 01:00:28.880 in the cult. There were doctors and attorneys and judges, 1118 01:00:28.960 --> 01:00:33.320 and so it could refer loosely to some of those individuals. 1119 01:00:34.280 --> 01:00:37.639 We know the names of some of them, and when 1120 01:00:37.679 --> 01:00:40.000 he was writing the Chowter Society, yet it could have 1121 01:00:40.079 --> 01:00:43.679 referred to some of those established community members. I think 1122 01:00:43.719 --> 01:00:44.559 that's very likely. 1123 01:00:44.639 --> 01:00:50.079 Yeah, you'll recognize one of those names, Julia Carlton Gadgetsek. 1124 01:00:50.400 --> 01:00:51.719 You know that one. 1125 01:00:52.199 --> 01:00:53.880 Now, who's this asshole? 1126 01:00:54.039 --> 01:00:57.360 Oh John, please please let her know who Anthony Fauci's ssidekick, 1127 01:00:57.480 --> 01:00:59.880 Carlton Gadgertak was relative to the Ankers cult. 1128 01:01:00.199 --> 01:01:04.239 Yeah, he well, he won a Nobel Prize for medicine 1129 01:01:05.239 --> 01:01:09.360 in nineteen seventy six something like that. And he was 1130 01:01:09.400 --> 01:01:12.360 born in Yonkers, but spent a lot of time outside 1131 01:01:12.400 --> 01:01:17.840 there researching strange diseases in or was he on some 1132 01:01:17.880 --> 01:01:19.760 of the Micronesian islands or someplace? 1133 01:01:19.920 --> 01:01:22.840 Yeah, he brought yeah, Micronesia. He brought about fifty young 1134 01:01:22.880 --> 01:01:23.559 boys back with him. 1135 01:01:23.960 --> 01:01:27.639 Yeah, he was very interested in boys. And when when 1136 01:01:27.639 --> 01:01:30.960 the Son of Sam case was reopened by Yonkers police department, 1137 01:01:32.360 --> 01:01:37.119 gadget sick became he was a person of interest and 1138 01:01:37.159 --> 01:01:44.440 then some and he eventually was convicted of child molestations, 1139 01:01:44.440 --> 01:01:47.000 served a boy a year in prison, then got out, 1140 01:01:47.639 --> 01:01:53.599 retreated to Europe and died over there. He he was 1141 01:01:53.639 --> 01:01:57.519 a strange character, and according to multiple sources, he was 1142 01:01:57.639 --> 01:02:06.719 present for very specific cultic activities, including allegedly the the 1143 01:02:06.840 --> 01:02:08.320 sacrifice of a child. 1144 01:02:08.880 --> 01:02:15.559 So yeah, god, yeah, why does he look like the 1145 01:02:15.679 --> 01:02:18.199 composite sketch of the Zodiac killer. 1146 01:02:19.239 --> 01:02:21.599 He was a creepy guy. And there's there's a film 1147 01:02:21.639 --> 01:02:25.119 where they an interview film where they talked to him, 1148 01:02:25.159 --> 01:02:31.000 and he's he's very He just totally denied reality it, 1149 01:02:31.079 --> 01:02:33.079 could not admit that he had done anything wrong. But 1150 01:02:33.159 --> 01:02:39.280 he Wow. David Berkowitz was aware of doctor Gadgetsik because 1151 01:02:39.320 --> 01:02:42.760 he was a He was a major figure in youngers there. 1152 01:02:42.679 --> 01:02:46.800 And he Yeah. 1153 01:02:47.599 --> 01:02:50.960 From nineteen seventy to nineteen ninety six, Carlton Gadgasik was 1154 01:02:51.000 --> 01:02:54.119 the chief of the Laboratory of Central Nervous System Studies 1155 01:02:54.119 --> 01:02:57.280 that ni in DS at the National Institutes of Health, 1156 01:02:57.599 --> 01:02:59.960 working directly for none other than Tony Felt. 1157 01:03:01.159 --> 01:03:05.719 Oh my god. And they were probably boyfriends him and 1158 01:03:05.840 --> 01:03:10.440 you can do it, that little fairy fuck I hate fauci, 1159 01:03:10.559 --> 01:03:11.400 I swear. 1160 01:03:11.920 --> 01:03:14.000 So you may know. Carlton gad your sex nephew. He 1161 01:03:14.039 --> 01:03:16.480 brought us the first season of Stranger Things. 1162 01:03:17.079 --> 01:03:23.679 Ah, stop it make up? Oh, come on, you guys. 1163 01:03:24.079 --> 01:03:26.679 This guy's neph what'd you say is nephew? 1164 01:03:27.559 --> 01:03:30.079 I believe if I'm not mistaken, this is his brother's son. 1165 01:03:30.159 --> 01:03:33.599 Yes, Oh my god, come on. 1166 01:03:34.679 --> 01:03:37.360 He was the chief chief writer and showrunner for season 1167 01:03:37.400 --> 01:03:38.920 one of Stranger Things. 1168 01:03:39.559 --> 01:03:44.679 Just saying, oh my God, probably just. 1169 01:03:44.639 --> 01:03:48.760 A crazier thing. Yeah, totally a coincidence. Stranger things. Indeed, 1170 01:03:50.400 --> 01:03:51.639 I'm sure's behind all of that. 1171 01:03:53.159 --> 01:04:00.280 Oh so fucking god, do. 1172 01:04:00.280 --> 01:04:01.800 That just blow up your brain hole there, Julia. 1173 01:04:02.679 --> 01:04:05.000 Both of you guys are blowing up my brain hole 1174 01:04:05.039 --> 01:04:06.760 in here. I thought I knew something. 1175 01:04:07.480 --> 01:04:09.000 That's well, you do know stuff. That's what I like 1176 01:04:09.039 --> 01:04:10.960 to do here. We like to exchange ideas. You know, well, 1177 01:04:11.039 --> 01:04:12.559 we all have a different piece of the puzzle. I 1178 01:04:12.559 --> 01:04:15.360 feel like, not to make it sound creepy or nothing, 1179 01:04:15.400 --> 01:04:17.199 but it is a It is a puzzle of sorts, right, 1180 01:04:18.000 --> 01:04:22.239 it is. I heard it in a song one time. 1181 01:04:22.280 --> 01:04:23.920 I think it was the beginning of the show The 1182 01:04:23.960 --> 01:04:27.119 World's a Puzzle. So I don't know why they called 1183 01:04:27.119 --> 01:04:31.239 this ghost story, but they yeah. I mean, it doesn't 1184 01:04:31.320 --> 01:04:34.320 have the same you know, plotlines or nothing, but it 1185 01:04:34.360 --> 01:04:37.239 is an interesting story. And again it's just weird to me. 1186 01:04:37.280 --> 01:04:41.079 It seems very processing when you got Homegirl in there, Mary, 1187 01:04:41.119 --> 01:04:45.599 unfaithful and whatnot. But onto the actual ghost story, and 1188 01:04:45.639 --> 01:04:49.480 that is the Peter Strub version. So besides Peter, let's 1189 01:04:49.519 --> 01:04:51.480 start off with Peter Strub. So this dude writes this 1190 01:04:51.519 --> 01:04:54.960 book again, Burke of which is arrested in August tenth 1191 01:04:55.000 --> 01:04:58.719 of nineteen seventy seven. He publishes the book on January 1192 01:04:58.719 --> 01:05:01.079 firth first of seventy nine, so let's call it he 1193 01:05:01.480 --> 01:05:04.320 did this obviously within that seventeen month span. But I mean, 1194 01:05:04.880 --> 01:05:07.039 you know, you pointed out how he's got he dedicated 1195 01:05:07.079 --> 01:05:10.719 to Tavistock folks. That's a good indication of how he 1196 01:05:10.760 --> 01:05:12.960 may know these tales. But what else is interesting about 1197 01:05:12.960 --> 01:05:15.239 Peter Stroke Well. 1198 01:05:15.079 --> 01:05:20.320 He ghost story in every book thereafter pretty much contains 1199 01:05:20.480 --> 01:05:27.559 some reference to the Yonker's cult and its membership, all 1200 01:05:27.679 --> 01:05:30.719 the way down to well, they have Mystery listed there 1201 01:05:31.199 --> 01:05:34.280 in nineteen ninety. By that time he was writing sort 1202 01:05:34.320 --> 01:05:37.519 of like he had He wasn't writing harder novels any longer, 1203 01:05:37.519 --> 01:05:40.840 but he was writing really really dark murder mysteries. And 1204 01:05:40.880 --> 01:05:44.920 there's a minor character in mystery, a police officer, and 1205 01:05:44.960 --> 01:05:50.280 his name is Officer Spahoa. It's phonetically that's yeah s 1206 01:05:50.400 --> 01:05:53.639 P y c h A L l A. Now that's 1207 01:05:53.679 --> 01:05:57.119 a very specific name because it's the name of a 1208 01:05:57.159 --> 01:06:00.639 person who allegedly was at the planning meeting for Son 1209 01:06:00.639 --> 01:06:02.880 of Sam in the spring of nineteen seventy six. His 1210 01:06:03.000 --> 01:06:06.599 name was Ho. It's a it's a Polish name, so 1211 01:06:06.639 --> 01:06:11.679 it's hard to pronounce correctly. But this Peter Strub used 1212 01:06:11.679 --> 01:06:15.880 it as a character name many years before Ron Spachala 1213 01:06:16.079 --> 01:06:19.079 was ever mentioned in the press in any public mention 1214 01:06:19.119 --> 01:06:22.280 of Ron'spachala that I can find, but Strub used the 1215 01:06:22.400 --> 01:06:26.400 name as a deliberate clue, just to let his readers 1216 01:06:26.440 --> 01:06:28.480 know that he had not forgotten about all this strange 1217 01:06:28.519 --> 01:06:30.920 stuff and that maybe one day somebody would figure out 1218 01:06:30.960 --> 01:06:34.719 this this puzzle. So yeah, that's. 1219 01:06:36.280 --> 01:06:38.639 Yeah, Well he's so Tavis. 1220 01:06:39.519 --> 01:06:43.000 It does that way. It's a hard conclusion to escape, 1221 01:06:43.000 --> 01:06:46.480 but it Yeah. 1222 01:06:45.159 --> 01:06:48.840 Oh my god, that's too specific. I'm sorry, is its 1223 01:06:48.880 --> 01:06:50.679 way too? It's too specific? 1224 01:06:51.199 --> 01:06:53.280 Well, like I said, it's almost like finding a fingerprint. 1225 01:06:53.559 --> 01:06:57.039 It's that definite, you know, it's hard to discount that. 1226 01:06:57.599 --> 01:07:01.199 But yeah, John, what you need to start a podcast? 1227 01:07:04.079 --> 01:07:07.719 Well, John, John's a wealth of information, isn't he, Julia, Yes. 1228 01:07:07.800 --> 01:07:08.719 Oh my god. 1229 01:07:09.400 --> 01:07:12.920 Well, strangely enough, and I'm glad we all find this 1230 01:07:13.000 --> 01:07:16.199 so interesting, But I don't find a lot of interest 1231 01:07:16.239 --> 01:07:18.719 in it within the community. It's just not one of 1232 01:07:18.719 --> 01:07:22.239 those things that people seem to have caught onto really. 1233 01:07:22.320 --> 01:07:26.000 I feel like this is one of the more interesting things. 1234 01:07:26.599 --> 01:07:28.480 Well, if I made that, if I met you, guys 1235 01:07:28.519 --> 01:07:30.880 are hitting on exactly why I'm doing these as occult 1236 01:07:31.079 --> 01:07:32.960 esotic film reviews, because I think the one thing that 1237 01:07:32.960 --> 01:07:34.760 the folks didn't understand is when they see a picture 1238 01:07:34.800 --> 01:07:37.159 of these ideas and they can relate to a picture 1239 01:07:37.199 --> 01:07:38.679 like it makes a lot more It makes a lot 1240 01:07:38.760 --> 01:07:40.320 more sense to me when I see shit in a picture. 1241 01:07:40.440 --> 01:07:42.639 Yeah, yes, absolutely, that's just me. 1242 01:07:43.360 --> 01:07:46.119 Yeah, that's not what I'm saying. 1243 01:07:45.960 --> 01:07:49.039 Julia, Are you special? 1244 01:07:49.079 --> 01:07:51.000 As the pop ups? And I color them myself. 1245 01:07:51.000 --> 01:07:56.760 Okay, I saw something on the Wikipedia page for the author, 1246 01:07:56.800 --> 01:07:58.559 though I was going to ask John if he thought 1247 01:07:58.559 --> 01:07:59.599 it was significant. 1248 01:07:59.679 --> 01:08:02.800 Hang on, please pull it back up, please do stand 1249 01:08:02.840 --> 01:08:05.679 by police. I don't even know what I was doing there. 1250 01:08:05.679 --> 01:08:07.239 I was just cruising around my tabs, to be quite 1251 01:08:07.280 --> 01:08:07.719 honest with you. 1252 01:08:08.400 --> 01:08:10.760 Well, it looks like the first book. This isn't what 1253 01:08:10.840 --> 01:08:17.800 I was going to ask. But first, right is my 1254 01:08:18.039 --> 01:08:22.680 namesake Julia nineteen seventy five. But that's besides the point. 1255 01:08:23.159 --> 01:08:26.800 It looks like he did some work for or with 1256 01:08:27.399 --> 01:08:30.399 HP Lovecraft. 1257 01:08:29.439 --> 01:08:31.479 And Stephen King. 1258 01:08:31.520 --> 01:08:32.279 Stephen King. 1259 01:08:32.640 --> 01:08:35.880 Yeah, he and Stephen King wrote two novels together, The 1260 01:08:35.960 --> 01:08:40.279 Talisman and Black House. Black House. That's one of the 1261 01:08:40.359 --> 01:08:43.199 rare moments in Straub's career that I just didn't It 1262 01:08:43.239 --> 01:08:45.840 wasn't very good. But the Talisman is really good, the 1263 01:08:45.880 --> 01:08:49.399 first book. I really enjoyed that one. I think he 1264 01:08:49.560 --> 01:08:55.079 edited maybe a volume of HP Lovecraft stories for the 1265 01:08:55.119 --> 01:08:58.039 Library of America, and unfortunately a lot of that stuff 1266 01:08:58.039 --> 01:08:59.359 has gone out of print. But that was a really 1267 01:08:59.439 --> 01:09:00.520 good series books. 1268 01:09:00.720 --> 01:09:05.840 Yeah, I wonder what's in the Talisman. 1269 01:09:07.560 --> 01:09:11.520 Well, there's a character. In fact, the main villain in 1270 01:09:11.560 --> 01:09:15.680 that book is named Morgan Slote, and the surname Slope 1271 01:09:15.760 --> 01:09:18.079 comes from a roommate of John Carrs when he was 1272 01:09:18.119 --> 01:09:23.439 in the Air Force. Uh So, there's just one clue 1273 01:09:23.479 --> 01:09:28.520 after another in his books, and it's well, isn't. 1274 01:09:28.279 --> 01:09:33.199 There a Laurel Kenyon asshole? Last name Slopeman changed it 1275 01:09:33.399 --> 01:09:36.119 to do you know how I'm talking about j J. 1276 01:09:36.279 --> 01:09:41.960 Are you referring to Jim Morrison's kindergarten classmate, Gail Slopeman, 1277 01:09:42.000 --> 01:09:43.640 who would later marry Frank Zappa. 1278 01:09:44.399 --> 01:09:48.399 Yes, yes, and changed her last name. That's right, that's right, 1279 01:09:49.520 --> 01:09:54.319 Gail Zappa formerly known Slopeman. 1280 01:09:55.159 --> 01:09:55.680 Yes, ma'am. 1281 01:09:56.560 --> 01:10:00.720 She was. She was military, right, her family for sure, 1282 01:10:01.039 --> 01:10:05.279 for sure, that's why she was in kindergarten with Morrison. Yeah. No, 1283 01:10:05.439 --> 01:10:10.920 that that obviously two connections in my mind, because I 1284 01:10:10.960 --> 01:10:16.000 think that they sneak little stuff like that. And Gail 1285 01:10:16.079 --> 01:10:18.439 Slopeman somebody wrote it in the comments. 1286 01:10:18.760 --> 01:10:20.960 Yep, there you go, Thank you folks with the interwebs. 1287 01:10:21.000 --> 01:10:26.720 So these are interesting aspects. So with regards to spy Challa, like, 1288 01:10:26.800 --> 01:10:28.079 I mean, you got to be in the know on 1289 01:10:28.159 --> 01:10:34.680 that one, right, yeah, because that my understanding is like 1290 01:10:34.680 --> 01:10:36.760 like you were pointing out, is like that dude was 1291 01:10:36.840 --> 01:10:39.800 like you know, you know, no one really knew that name, 1292 01:10:39.840 --> 01:10:41.600 Like that was one of the ones that minunderstanding. Mary 1293 01:10:41.720 --> 01:10:44.479 kept close to the best even right he did. 1294 01:10:44.560 --> 01:10:47.359 Yeah, I think Maury was right up to the end, 1295 01:10:47.399 --> 01:10:50.439 he was trying to learn more about all these individuals 1296 01:10:50.439 --> 01:10:53.239 because he knew they all fit into the larger picture. 1297 01:10:54.039 --> 01:10:58.840 But Yalla was he's really you read about his history 1298 01:10:58.880 --> 01:11:02.319 and some of this stuff is is just almost unimaginably awful. 1299 01:11:02.920 --> 01:11:04.880 He's another one of these people. The reason all these 1300 01:11:04.920 --> 01:11:07.319 people were there is that they hurt children. That that 1301 01:11:07.600 --> 01:11:12.119 was the common thread, you know, because that that's ultimately 1302 01:11:12.159 --> 01:11:15.479 what this cult was about. The son of Sam attacks themselves. 1303 01:11:15.520 --> 01:11:19.199 I feel we're just the visible tip of a very 1304 01:11:19.319 --> 01:11:22.479 large iceberg. In the case, was was way more complex 1305 01:11:22.640 --> 01:11:26.079 than just the handful of of shooting attacks that people 1306 01:11:26.119 --> 01:11:26.600 know about. 1307 01:11:26.920 --> 01:11:31.680 Wait till you read Program to Kill. You're gonna you're 1308 01:11:31.840 --> 01:11:34.800 gonna go so far down the rabbit hole. You're gonna 1309 01:11:34.840 --> 01:11:36.960 be begging me and JJ to pull you back out. 1310 01:11:37.319 --> 01:11:43.359 I mean, it's it's it's absolutely mind boggling. But I 1311 01:11:43.399 --> 01:11:46.039 agree with you. I think children are a currency in 1312 01:11:46.079 --> 01:11:52.640 these cults. They're traded, and they are used for blackmail, 1313 01:11:52.960 --> 01:11:55.079 among other things, sacrificial. 1314 01:11:55.359 --> 01:11:58.119 Well, there you go, right the way I look at it, 1315 01:11:58.479 --> 01:12:00.520 the way I look it's the episode ride. I apologize 1316 01:12:00.560 --> 01:12:00.920 and mean to. 1317 01:12:00.840 --> 01:12:02.760 Cut you off, Julia, No, yeah, go ahead, go ahead. 1318 01:12:03.239 --> 01:12:06.399 I look at the epicenter of the activity of these 1319 01:12:06.439 --> 01:12:10.560 spooky blackmail operations, and you know, I've read enough cruelly 1320 01:12:10.640 --> 01:12:13.560 and I'll be going that on unpacking my satanic panic series. 1321 01:12:14.079 --> 01:12:16.960 Literally again, I'm not trying to inform my own opinions, thoughts, 1322 01:12:17.000 --> 01:12:19.279 or ideas against their judgmental on all these people. I'm 1323 01:12:19.359 --> 01:12:22.319 using their words to describe these things. And there's a 1324 01:12:22.359 --> 01:12:24.319 lot of kid diddling stuff that comes out of what 1325 01:12:24.359 --> 01:12:26.920 people would call a religion. If they're Theelamites that I 1326 01:12:26.920 --> 01:12:30.039 think intersects with all this thing that they're calling blackmail operations. 1327 01:12:30.720 --> 01:12:33.720 Well you should talk to William Ramsey about the West 1328 01:12:33.760 --> 01:12:36.359 Memphis three too, because that came out of the Satanic 1329 01:12:36.399 --> 01:12:41.439 Panic and that was all weird Crowley worshiping short stuff. 1330 01:12:41.560 --> 01:12:43.319 So, I mean, and I'll be using that as an 1331 01:12:43.359 --> 01:12:45.039 example of my series, but I'm actually gonna be going 1332 01:12:45.079 --> 01:12:48.520 over the cases and comparing the Satanic Panic around these 1333 01:12:48.600 --> 01:12:51.720 major events, but using cases emphasized. This is a greater 1334 01:12:51.760 --> 01:12:53.439 deal just like John's doing here in the Sun A 1335 01:12:53.439 --> 01:12:56.039 Sam series. There's a greater number of cases that are 1336 01:12:56.039 --> 01:12:58.279 not being depicted in the conversation because this is a 1337 01:12:58.359 --> 01:12:59.960 larger pattern of behavior in the codect. 1338 01:13:01.000 --> 01:13:03.760 Mm hmm, well, I mean even in this movie. I 1339 01:13:03.760 --> 01:13:09.079 think they reference in the movie uh something about occultism 1340 01:13:09.359 --> 01:13:14.600 several times or like cult activity several times they do. 1341 01:13:14.640 --> 01:13:16.600 And on that note is is this is this an 1342 01:13:16.600 --> 01:13:18.520 accurate statement that we hear from the chat? I appreciate 1343 01:13:18.560 --> 01:13:21.000 this statement there Wallhead Rex, so car was O t 1344 01:13:21.079 --> 01:13:23.199 O O t O Roade Strub's attorney and Strub edited 1345 01:13:23.199 --> 01:13:24.279 out the OTO reference. 1346 01:13:24.439 --> 01:13:26.399 Strup did, in fact edit out a reference to the 1347 01:13:26.399 --> 01:13:28.760 OTO in the original hardcover version. That's right. 1348 01:13:31.520 --> 01:13:33.840 That's a fucking barn burner right there, folks. 1349 01:13:34.039 --> 01:13:37.600 Yeah, he changes the name of the group to the XXX, 1350 01:13:37.600 --> 01:13:42.319 which has a convoluted Latin it means something in Latin. 1351 01:13:42.359 --> 01:13:45.159 But he changed the name in the paperback to the XXX. 1352 01:13:45.600 --> 01:13:49.079 But he also rolls into that multiple references to the 1353 01:13:49.119 --> 01:13:53.159 Processed Church. In fact, the villainous who is she keeps 1354 01:13:53.159 --> 01:13:56.119 coming back with the initials a M. Those are just 1355 01:13:56.159 --> 01:13:59.760 the initials of Marianna Grimston reversed. So there's a lot 1356 01:13:59.800 --> 01:14:03.600 of cult references and their conscious references. But yes, that's true. 1357 01:14:03.600 --> 01:14:05.600 Blown up a brain hole, John, you're blowing up a brain. 1358 01:14:05.479 --> 01:14:11.920 Hole reference in in the in the original edition of 1359 01:14:11.920 --> 01:14:12.199 the book. 1360 01:14:12.279 --> 01:14:19.479 Yeah, And to the person who left that comment, uh way, Headrex? 1361 01:14:19.720 --> 01:14:20.039 Is that? How? 1362 01:14:21.479 --> 01:14:25.560 Whyhead Rex? Who the fuck are you? Why do you 1363 01:14:25.680 --> 01:14:29.119 know so much? That was awesome? I mean, John obviously 1364 01:14:29.239 --> 01:14:31.319 was gonna say, but still, that was awesome. 1365 01:14:32.359 --> 01:14:34.199 I didn't Yeah, that's great stuff. I didn't know that 1366 01:14:34.239 --> 01:14:36.359 at all. That's that's as I mean, it's an interesting 1367 01:14:36.399 --> 01:14:38.720 aspect to understand when you you see the folks that 1368 01:14:38.760 --> 01:14:40.760 get but hurt about their names appearing stuff. I had 1369 01:14:40.760 --> 01:14:44.119 referenced earlier that creepy fellow Micha Lookino email and Dave 1370 01:14:44.159 --> 01:14:47.039 McGowan saying how dare you and McGowan basically just laughing 1371 01:14:47.079 --> 01:14:47.600 them off with. 1372 01:14:47.680 --> 01:14:52.680 Facts, Yeah, with facts, literal facts like hello. 1373 01:14:52.920 --> 01:14:55.239 Yeah, I'm really glad that people are coming about these 1374 01:14:55.239 --> 01:14:58.439 things because this is a discussion that that people have 1375 01:14:58.680 --> 01:15:01.479 so seldom. I mean it, it's this stuff is almost 1376 01:15:01.560 --> 01:15:06.520 never talked about, especially in relation to the fictional references 1377 01:15:06.560 --> 01:15:09.359 to real life people and events. I just well, like 1378 01:15:09.359 --> 01:15:15.680 I said earlier, it's so obviously a separate confirmation that 1379 01:15:16.439 --> 01:15:21.640 the Yonkers case actually did happen, that this cult existed, 1380 01:15:22.239 --> 01:15:27.560 But people within the community just aren't. They're not interested 1381 01:15:27.560 --> 01:15:31.760 in it, really, at least not in my experience, because 1382 01:15:31.920 --> 01:15:35.640 I try to generate this conversation over and over again, 1383 01:15:35.680 --> 01:15:38.520 and it's just not really something that people appear to 1384 01:15:38.560 --> 01:15:41.000 be interested in. It's it's just not on their radar 1385 01:15:41.119 --> 01:15:42.199 for whatever reason. 1386 01:15:42.840 --> 01:15:45.920 Well, I've found John, I'll give you my and I 1387 01:15:45.920 --> 01:15:48.680 don't want a tangent or anything, but I just talked 1388 01:15:48.680 --> 01:15:52.359 about this on a podcast recently, and you might agree 1389 01:15:52.439 --> 01:15:56.880 or disagree, but I find it interesting that the willingness 1390 01:15:56.920 --> 01:16:01.000 of people to listen to podcasts but not to read anything. 1391 01:16:01.039 --> 01:16:03.399 They don't want to read a book. They don't want 1392 01:16:03.960 --> 01:16:06.560 they don't want to look up information, they don't They 1393 01:16:06.600 --> 01:16:09.520 want it to either be a Google away or in 1394 01:16:09.640 --> 01:16:12.920 like some kind of a TikTok video or a podcast 1395 01:16:13.199 --> 01:16:16.000 that they don't really have to like divulge too much 1396 01:16:16.000 --> 01:16:16.680 of their attention. 1397 01:16:16.920 --> 01:16:20.800 Yeah, right right. It's sad. 1398 01:16:21.560 --> 01:16:24.319 It is sad, But I think that's why it's so cool, 1399 01:16:24.680 --> 01:16:27.880 like when we can talk about it in podcast form. 1400 01:16:27.960 --> 01:16:31.159 Because obviously I love to read. I don't have any 1401 01:16:31.239 --> 01:16:35.319 problems sitting down and reading The Ultimate Evil or Program 1402 01:16:35.359 --> 01:16:38.199 to Kill Strange Things from the Canyon. I have no 1403 01:16:38.319 --> 01:16:41.880 problem doing that. The thing for me is I didn't 1404 01:16:41.880 --> 01:16:44.239 want to make it digestible so I can take it 1405 01:16:44.279 --> 01:16:47.720 onto a podcast platform and talk to people about it 1406 01:16:47.760 --> 01:16:51.439 and get them interested in it who would have otherwise 1407 01:16:51.520 --> 01:16:54.279 never read the book or taken the time to read 1408 01:16:54.319 --> 01:16:57.600 the book. So I think, you know, book reading in 1409 01:16:57.640 --> 01:17:01.079 itself is kind of like this dying art form is like, oh, 1410 01:17:01.119 --> 01:17:04.239 what you read, you don't just listen to Joe Rogan 1411 01:17:04.399 --> 01:17:07.479 and like download useless information, you know what I mean? 1412 01:17:07.640 --> 01:17:08.119 So slight. 1413 01:17:08.399 --> 01:17:10.520 I like your approach though, that's a pretty solid approaching 1414 01:17:10.560 --> 01:17:14.760 out there. What you're saying, you're reading books and then 1415 01:17:14.760 --> 01:17:17.560 trying to you know, instead of realizing folks don't read books, 1416 01:17:17.600 --> 01:17:20.720 and then you try to digest that into a format. 1417 01:17:20.760 --> 01:17:23.119 Then I did digestible podcast podcast. 1418 01:17:23.159 --> 01:17:26.079 Yes, yeah, that's I mean, that's what I like to 1419 01:17:26.079 --> 01:17:28.319 do on my show. That's why I think John would 1420 01:17:28.359 --> 01:17:32.760 be successful at it, because it's obviously something that's very interesting, 1421 01:17:33.760 --> 01:17:36.439 but people just don't want to read. Isn't that sad? 1422 01:17:36.960 --> 01:17:40.000 People don't No one want to take the time. 1423 01:17:40.760 --> 01:17:43.239 Well, on my substect, that's what I try to give 1424 01:17:43.239 --> 01:17:45.880 it to people, like like you're talking about indigestible form, 1425 01:17:45.920 --> 01:17:47.720 you know, you give them just a few paragraphs and 1426 01:17:47.760 --> 01:17:51.079 hopefully it's not so complicated that it overwhelms them, but 1427 01:17:51.159 --> 01:17:53.960 it gives them enough to think about and maybe that'll 1428 01:17:54.079 --> 01:17:56.039 part their interest and then they'll go read a couple 1429 01:17:56.039 --> 01:17:58.640 of books about it. But yeah, I felt like that 1430 01:17:58.720 --> 01:18:01.880 was particularly important with stre because I kept asking people 1431 01:18:01.880 --> 01:18:03.760 that they read the book and everybody said no, And 1432 01:18:03.760 --> 01:18:06.439 I said, well, there's all this really bizarre stuff in 1433 01:18:06.439 --> 01:18:09.600 it that relates directly to the case, and I just 1434 01:18:10.760 --> 01:18:14.800 it was interesting to me anyways, so I started to 1435 01:18:14.800 --> 01:18:21.000 dig deeper into it, and then it also correlated with it. 1436 01:18:21.119 --> 01:18:24.600 I was really when I started doing research, I hated 1437 01:18:24.640 --> 01:18:27.119 making phone calls to people. I just hated it because 1438 01:18:27.119 --> 01:18:30.039 it made them feel weird and it made me feel weird. 1439 01:18:30.880 --> 01:18:33.239 But I found that the more I did it, the 1440 01:18:33.279 --> 01:18:39.479 more I found information from actual firsthand sources who corroborated 1441 01:18:39.600 --> 01:18:42.880 the references to the cult that I found in Straub's work, 1442 01:18:44.279 --> 01:18:48.560 to the point where this is one of the things 1443 01:18:48.600 --> 01:18:51.960 that didn't make it into the film unfortunately. But in 1444 01:18:52.000 --> 01:18:57.279 the novel, the Alice Kreese character, this Eva Gali Alma 1445 01:18:57.319 --> 01:19:01.760 MOBILEI character. In one of her incarnation, she appears in 1446 01:19:01.880 --> 01:19:05.359 a stage play and she's a big success, and everybody's 1447 01:19:05.359 --> 01:19:08.239 fascinated with her, and they think, oh, wow, she's destined 1448 01:19:08.279 --> 01:19:09.760 to go on to be a star of the stage 1449 01:19:09.800 --> 01:19:11.039 and she's going to do a lot of great things 1450 01:19:11.079 --> 01:19:16.239 when her but she abruptly disappears. Well, for the longest time, 1451 01:19:16.279 --> 01:19:19.239 I've been reading this book for thirty five thirty six years. 1452 01:19:19.319 --> 01:19:23.680 I read it every Halloween. I had no idea that 1453 01:19:23.680 --> 01:19:26.720 that referred to a real life event. Well, I started 1454 01:19:26.720 --> 01:19:31.680 doing newspaper research on Susanne Conway. She appeared in nineteen 1455 01:19:31.840 --> 01:19:36.800 seventy five in a stage play, then left town very suddenly. 1456 01:19:36.840 --> 01:19:39.720 At first I only knew about the play. Then I 1457 01:19:39.960 --> 01:19:43.279 spoke to one of her fellow cast members in upstate 1458 01:19:43.359 --> 01:19:45.960 New York and he tells me, well, you know, and 1459 01:19:46.000 --> 01:19:48.199 I didn't tell him any of this stuff about ghost story, 1460 01:19:48.239 --> 01:19:49.560 any of the rest of it, But he said, you know, 1461 01:19:49.960 --> 01:19:52.000 I don't know what happened to Sue, because not long 1462 01:19:52.039 --> 01:19:53.600 after she was in the place, she just up and 1463 01:19:53.680 --> 01:19:56.359 left town, and everybody wondered about her. Nobody knew what 1464 01:19:56.439 --> 01:19:58.840 happened to her. So it's a reference to the n 1465 01:19:59.039 --> 01:20:05.319 Veronica More story in the novel, a direct reference. Uh So, 1466 01:20:05.359 --> 01:20:07.760 the more research you do, the more you find out 1467 01:20:07.760 --> 01:20:10.279 that all this stuff actually happened, and that so many 1468 01:20:10.319 --> 01:20:13.640 of the events in the book make reference to real 1469 01:20:13.720 --> 01:20:14.399 life events. 1470 01:20:14.600 --> 01:20:15.560 Real life shit. 1471 01:20:16.079 --> 01:20:20.399 Yeah, Yeah, that's a great blog piece. Specs. You definitely 1472 01:20:20.439 --> 01:20:22.239 check this out. Isn't be in the show notes for 1473 01:20:22.279 --> 01:20:23.000 folks to check out. 1474 01:20:23.840 --> 01:20:29.079 Joe, doesn't Susan Conway remind you of Tuesday Weld a 1475 01:20:29.079 --> 01:20:29.520 little bit. 1476 01:20:31.079 --> 01:20:33.279 She plays a very similar role in the in this 1477 01:20:33.319 --> 01:20:35.439 scene that I think is Tuesday well plays overall and 1478 01:20:35.520 --> 01:20:36.880 especially in the Hollywood scene. 1479 01:20:37.439 --> 01:20:41.760 Yeah, and they're both like priestess level. Yeah, you know 1480 01:20:41.800 --> 01:20:45.279 what I'm saying. You gotta look into Tuesday well if 1481 01:20:45.319 --> 01:20:50.479 you haven't, John, because she's another rabbit hole that just 1482 01:20:50.520 --> 01:20:54.199 never ends. But it's like the ones, the ones in 1483 01:20:54.239 --> 01:20:59.239 these these cults who are actually the upper echelon, They 1484 01:20:59.279 --> 01:21:04.880 actually get in a shielded or hidden or occulted from 1485 01:21:05.680 --> 01:21:11.680 mainstream view, which I come on, are you said very interesting? 1486 01:21:12.359 --> 01:21:13.239 What are you talking about? 1487 01:21:15.359 --> 01:21:17.079 You mean to tell me people aren't how accountable for 1488 01:21:17.079 --> 01:21:20.560 their activities? Is that around the right? 1489 01:21:20.880 --> 01:21:21.159 Yeah? 1490 01:21:21.760 --> 01:21:22.159 What you mean? 1491 01:21:22.279 --> 01:21:24.640 Is that what you want me to believe? I do 1492 01:21:24.800 --> 01:21:28.600 want you now? That is the pattern time and time again. Right. 1493 01:21:29.359 --> 01:21:34.359 Mm so this this uh in the in the movie 1494 01:21:34.600 --> 01:21:37.159 actually too. I wanted to get your thoughts on this. 1495 01:21:38.000 --> 01:21:39.880 May I just make a point on your book booking 1496 01:21:39.920 --> 01:21:43.079 on your statement there, Juliet, relative to national security on 1497 01:21:43.119 --> 01:21:45.920 our left and relative to process church folks who walk 1498 01:21:45.960 --> 01:21:49.479 on our right. Cocaine Bob here walked on trafficking charges 1499 01:21:49.479 --> 01:21:52.560 in cocaine in nineteen eighty no time, and he walked 1500 01:21:52.560 --> 01:21:54.720 on murder charges in nineteen eighty eight of the Roy 1501 01:21:54.840 --> 01:21:58.439 Raiden murder courtesy of Charles Manson's friend Ira Render, then 1502 01:21:58.640 --> 01:22:02.359 LA District attorney and his co conspirator. There Old Cocaine 1503 01:22:02.399 --> 01:22:05.520 Bob was the medi Ian cartels number one dude in 1504 01:22:05.560 --> 01:22:09.279 America's wife. She just popped her husband six months prior 1505 01:22:09.279 --> 01:22:12.640 to arrest with with with which Cocaine Bob was picked 1506 01:22:12.720 --> 01:22:14.840 up for and was an unindicted co conspirator. 1507 01:22:15.960 --> 01:22:21.399 But you know how many people know that you that's true? 1508 01:22:22.359 --> 01:22:25.560 Like and like whoever is listening to this podcast right now, 1509 01:22:25.640 --> 01:22:25.960 Well we. 1510 01:22:25.920 --> 01:22:27.720 Gotta yeah say we got we got one hundred and 1511 01:22:27.760 --> 01:22:29.880 seventy plus folks that are learning these things right now. 1512 01:22:29.880 --> 01:22:37.199 So that's again, this is all right, definitely a barn burner. 1513 01:22:37.319 --> 01:22:39.960 I appreciate. I just I got to bring in the 1514 01:22:39.960 --> 01:22:41.760 Cocaine Bob factor in my back. 1515 01:22:41.960 --> 01:22:43.319 Yeah yeah, I mean that. 1516 01:22:43.199 --> 01:22:45.960 He's an I never leave. 1517 01:22:47.279 --> 01:22:48.840 You cut out for like a second. 1518 01:22:51.199 --> 01:22:54.760 The uh so, Yeah, I mean I just think you know, again, 1519 01:22:54.840 --> 01:22:57.800 we're we're kind of drawing patterns of these activities and people, 1520 01:22:57.800 --> 01:22:59.920 but you know, these people don't get hell accountable, do they. 1521 01:23:01.319 --> 01:23:04.279 No, No, they really don't. There was a handful of 1522 01:23:04.279 --> 01:23:07.960 people in the case of Son of Sam who were 1523 01:23:08.520 --> 01:23:12.279 members or affiliates of the cult who died in odd ways, 1524 01:23:12.359 --> 01:23:15.640 you know, in the few years after Burkewitz's arrest. But 1525 01:23:16.039 --> 01:23:18.880 the people hire up the ladder. Yeah, there very rarely 1526 01:23:19.319 --> 01:23:22.760 are any consequences for them, unfortunately. 1527 01:23:22.159 --> 01:23:24.039 For sure. And I just want to highlight this before 1528 01:23:24.039 --> 01:23:26.920 we move on Peter Strobe, unless y'all have anything else 1529 01:23:26.960 --> 01:23:30.199 on Strobe. But he says he wrote ghost story. The 1530 01:23:30.279 --> 01:23:32.720 reason I chose to write scary books was because at 1531 01:23:32.720 --> 01:23:35.800 the time there were only three horror novels, and they'd 1532 01:23:35.840 --> 01:23:40.319 been enormously successful with The Exorcist, Rosemary's Baby and the other. 1533 01:23:40.359 --> 01:23:43.159 And I just like to remind everyone Rosemary's Baby was 1534 01:23:43.199 --> 01:23:47.680 a process outfit with Roman Planski Cocaine Bob. He was 1535 01:23:47.720 --> 01:23:50.079 on set every day despite being the head of Paramount 1536 01:23:50.079 --> 01:23:52.239 and hiring Polansky to do that. And I like to 1537 01:23:52.239 --> 01:23:54.399 put a note in there, penning Polansky there for a second, 1538 01:23:54.439 --> 01:23:56.640 because he comes up later here in Tonight's tale. But 1539 01:23:57.319 --> 01:23:59.439 is if you aren't having anything else on Peter Strub, 1540 01:23:59.640 --> 01:24:02.119 we can continue. But by all means, this guy's an 1541 01:24:02.119 --> 01:24:02.840 interesting character. 1542 01:24:05.640 --> 01:24:08.560 Yeah, I would. I wish I knew more about him personally, 1543 01:24:08.640 --> 01:24:12.680 because it's it's just so obvious that he had a 1544 01:24:12.720 --> 01:24:16.079 first hand source, you know. Yeah, but it's the kind 1545 01:24:16.119 --> 01:24:18.399 of thing that he was never going to talk about openly. 1546 01:24:18.399 --> 01:24:22.319 I mean, he he talks about certain influence, you know, 1547 01:24:22.359 --> 01:24:25.479 literary influence and stuff on Ghost Story. He talks about 1548 01:24:25.920 --> 01:24:30.359 you know, uh, Nathaniel Hawthorne and Henry James and all that. 1549 01:24:30.439 --> 01:24:34.960 But but those are the obvious things. What's not so obvious? Hey? 1550 01:24:34.840 --> 01:24:36.439 There you go. What do we don't know that we 1551 01:24:36.479 --> 01:24:38.560 don't know that we do? They know that we don't know. 1552 01:24:38.920 --> 01:24:42.439 Yeah, And I just I wish, I wish it was 1553 01:24:42.840 --> 01:24:45.359 a wider discussion. I'd like to bring more people into it, 1554 01:24:45.399 --> 01:24:48.319 you know, because somebody's going to know something about this somewhere. 1555 01:24:48.640 --> 01:24:50.520 We just have to bring him into the circle and 1556 01:24:50.840 --> 01:24:52.680 and get everybody to talk about it. 1557 01:24:53.560 --> 01:24:53.840 Well. 1558 01:24:53.880 --> 01:24:57.560 To add on to your point really quick about this 1559 01:24:57.720 --> 01:25:01.840 author and why I feel like it's significant is because 1560 01:25:02.159 --> 01:25:07.119 someone that I comment on constantly that I actually have 1561 01:25:07.159 --> 01:25:13.399 a poster right here, Stanley Kubrick. He put into his 1562 01:25:13.560 --> 01:25:17.800 movies things that were not in the novels, right like 1563 01:25:17.880 --> 01:25:25.279 the Shining clockwork Orange, Lolita, you know. And the guy 1564 01:25:25.319 --> 01:25:29.520 who wrote a Clockwork Orange actually ripped off the idea 1565 01:25:29.560 --> 01:25:33.000 from a conversation that Stanley Kubrick was having with someone 1566 01:25:33.479 --> 01:25:38.640 and then he ended yes, yes. So Stanley Kubrick was 1567 01:25:38.640 --> 01:25:40.600 at a party one night with a bunch of like 1568 01:25:40.640 --> 01:25:43.600 weird German people like Warner von Braun and ship like that, 1569 01:25:43.760 --> 01:25:48.039 and he was talking about the idea of a clockwork orange. 1570 01:25:48.439 --> 01:25:51.079 The guy who wrote the book was there, wrote the 1571 01:25:51.119 --> 01:25:53.760 book and then had Stanley direct the film. But the 1572 01:25:53.840 --> 01:25:54.840 reason I bring all. 1573 01:25:54.720 --> 01:26:02.000 This up, it's Anthony Burgess. Like you, He's also got 1574 01:26:02.000 --> 01:26:02.479 a weird. 1575 01:26:03.399 --> 01:26:07.920 Stories, right, Anthony Burgess. So why I bring that up 1576 01:26:08.000 --> 01:26:12.760 is because Stanley Kubrick was supposed to direct The Exorcist, 1577 01:26:13.159 --> 01:26:15.399 but he passed it up. He said he didn't want 1578 01:26:15.399 --> 01:26:19.840 to do it, and so they got William Friedkin to 1579 01:26:19.920 --> 01:26:23.560 do the Exorcist. But then because he passed up on 1580 01:26:23.600 --> 01:26:27.760 the Exorcist, they asked him to do The Shining and 1581 01:26:27.800 --> 01:26:30.279 he took it and flipped it and made it a 1582 01:26:30.319 --> 01:26:33.520 cult and esoteric and it it is what we have today. 1583 01:26:33.520 --> 01:26:36.920 But then look at the other book slash movie that's 1584 01:26:36.920 --> 01:26:42.199 listed Rosemary's Baby, right, Polanski. So this guy is talking 1585 01:26:42.239 --> 01:26:47.399 about I wanted to write horror because I know how 1586 01:26:47.600 --> 01:26:50.840 esoteric it is. Basically, right, we got like The Exorcist, 1587 01:26:51.119 --> 01:26:54.279 Rosemary's Baby, I mean, Stanley Kubrick was doing all this 1588 01:26:54.359 --> 01:26:59.359 shit too, right books and making them you know what 1589 01:26:59.359 --> 01:27:01.760 I mean. It's like they're all kind of connected. They 1590 01:27:01.800 --> 01:27:04.199 all know that they can slip stuff in there. 1591 01:27:04.920 --> 01:27:07.000 Yeah, for sure, I would argue it's them trying to 1592 01:27:07.760 --> 01:27:10.720 basically a public initiation of some of the cold ideas. Because 1593 01:27:10.920 --> 01:27:13.760 you mentioned freaking he ties into the gay club s 1594 01:27:13.800 --> 01:27:15.880 and m scene with this tale relative to the Son 1595 01:27:15.920 --> 01:27:17.720 of Sam story of the early eighties in New York City, 1596 01:27:19.079 --> 01:27:21.319 that death mass story, the death mass story that John 1597 01:27:21.319 --> 01:27:24.399 wrote about would be this environment here and cruising. In fact, 1598 01:27:24.920 --> 01:27:27.199 freakin knew the guy that was doing these murders. 1599 01:27:28.760 --> 01:27:30.560 But see how they slipped that shit in. 1600 01:27:31.960 --> 01:27:34.000 Yeah, and Freaking's it's I'm just friends with this guy 1601 01:27:34.039 --> 01:27:36.479 who's a gay, gay s and m club serial killer. 1602 01:27:36.560 --> 01:27:38.800 Don't worry about it, folks, don't worry about it, and 1603 01:27:38.840 --> 01:27:42.199 go the Cocaine Bible star his buddy Alvil stars the 1604 01:27:42.359 --> 01:27:44.239 you know in the film about it, right, Because these 1605 01:27:44.319 --> 01:27:46.600 idiots are just telling that they're bragging about their Speaking 1606 01:27:46.640 --> 01:27:48.800 of the Braggs we talked about earlier, John, they're just 1607 01:27:48.800 --> 01:27:51.640 bragging about their shit in my opinion. But yeah, well 1608 01:27:51.680 --> 01:27:53.640 I'm just the garbage candidates. Who am I to say? 1609 01:27:53.920 --> 01:27:55.920 Well, I tell you, and I hope this is not 1610 01:27:55.960 --> 01:27:58.439 going to sound like bragging, because it really isn't. But 1611 01:27:58.479 --> 01:28:01.159 it's just such an innoc capable connection I have to 1612 01:28:01.199 --> 01:28:06.600 mention it. In reference to Cruising, the Los Angeles punk 1613 01:28:06.680 --> 01:28:08.920 rock band The Germs. They did a couple of songs 1614 01:28:08.920 --> 01:28:10.880 for the sound Actually they did about half an album's 1615 01:28:10.880 --> 01:28:13.000 worth of stuff for the soundtrack of that film, but 1616 01:28:13.079 --> 01:28:17.039 only one of the songs wound up being used. Uh, 1617 01:28:17.560 --> 01:28:23.319 there is cult history there, Yeah, in in In Darby 1618 01:28:23.359 --> 01:28:24.800 Crash's background. 1619 01:28:24.399 --> 01:28:30.720 Though, came from that band. Yeah, no ship, Yeah. 1620 01:28:30.800 --> 01:28:35.000 George Ruthenberg, Yeah, I don't. A good friend of mine 1621 01:28:35.039 --> 01:28:40.720 knew Darby fairlywell. She was involved in that scene and 1622 01:28:40.760 --> 01:28:46.920 in fact she was Nicholas Shrek's first wife. 1623 01:28:48.560 --> 01:28:50.319 That's right, you told me about that. 1624 01:28:52.199 --> 01:28:56.600 But we were good, good friends. And Uh, I learned 1625 01:28:56.640 --> 01:29:01.680 a lot reading about Darby because he I believe he 1626 01:29:01.800 --> 01:29:06.680 was almost certainly programmed. Uh, and that's probably a story 1627 01:29:06.720 --> 01:29:08.159 for another time, but but. 1628 01:29:08.279 --> 01:29:11.359 He was a story from our time because I just 1629 01:29:11.359 --> 01:29:12.880 put a pen in that there that' stuff. This is 1630 01:29:12.920 --> 01:29:14.239 all very interesting, Please continue. 1631 01:29:14.279 --> 01:29:17.479 Yeah, Actually, there's a lot of strange history there. He 1632 01:29:17.680 --> 01:29:19.680 very early on, when he was still in high school. 1633 01:29:20.079 --> 01:29:22.920 He had people from scientology and est and all these 1634 01:29:23.039 --> 01:29:27.880 organizations actively messing with the heads of the kids that 1635 01:29:27.920 --> 01:29:30.960 attended that school. So yeah, that that's something we could 1636 01:29:30.960 --> 01:29:33.159 talk about another for sure. 1637 01:29:33.279 --> 01:29:39.159 Dude. That exercise into my speaking of weird McGowan's weird 1638 01:29:39.159 --> 01:29:42.239 scenes inside the Canyon. I took the framework of his story, 1639 01:29:42.319 --> 01:29:46.760 the salient characteristics and points that he identified theirs. That 1640 01:29:46.920 --> 01:29:49.720 was the framework of that operation in Laurel Canyon. I 1641 01:29:49.760 --> 01:29:53.119 applied that same framework to Seattle rungs counterculture and it's 1642 01:29:53.159 --> 01:29:55.760 the exact same fucking thing. And Pat Smer is part 1643 01:29:55.800 --> 01:29:57.239 of that counterculture. That's interesting. 1644 01:29:57.920 --> 01:30:01.479 Yeah, the Nirvana you know, weird. 1645 01:30:01.600 --> 01:30:07.119 Yeah, he came in there in love. Yeah, well yeah, yeah, 1646 01:30:07.159 --> 01:30:08.640 that's yeah, there's a lot of a lot of a 1647 01:30:08.640 --> 01:30:10.960 lot of weird tana have been getting on with those topics. 1648 01:30:10.960 --> 01:30:13.720 But back to the ghost story here. The tonight's topic 1649 01:30:13.760 --> 01:30:15.760 you can hand which I do appreciate your folks time 1650 01:30:15.800 --> 01:30:17.800 at the interwebs in of course John and Julia and 1651 01:30:17.840 --> 01:30:20.520 your conversation. I'm learning a lot here, as I always 1652 01:30:20.520 --> 01:30:22.920 do with both of you all in conversations and podcasts. 1653 01:30:22.960 --> 01:30:26.199 So I do appreciate that. And I will only show 1654 01:30:26.199 --> 01:30:29.119 this picture of Cocaine Bob six or seven more times, 1655 01:30:29.119 --> 01:30:32.520 so I do want to get that out there. So 1656 01:30:33.239 --> 01:30:35.479 ghost story, and I just want to add this, and 1657 01:30:35.560 --> 01:30:37.600 I asked you all this question here too as well. 1658 01:30:38.000 --> 01:30:40.000 If you were to pick a character from the film 1659 01:30:40.000 --> 01:30:42.319 and sign them to one of these Muppet muppets, who 1660 01:30:42.399 --> 01:30:46.720 which character would it be? In which muppet? Obviously we 1661 01:30:46.800 --> 01:30:48.840 know that the female ones, that's the only one. I'm 1662 01:30:48.840 --> 01:30:52.000 talking about, the the the creepy fellas. 1663 01:30:51.800 --> 01:30:58.479 Right, I'll I'll do. I'll say that doctor Jeffrey is 1664 01:30:59.119 --> 01:31:03.960 the disheveled, the guy in the chef's head Douglas character. 1665 01:31:04.840 --> 01:31:08.439 Yeah, yeah, he's my favorite one out of the bunch. 1666 01:31:08.600 --> 01:31:09.920 He's my favorite one out of the bunch. 1667 01:31:10.600 --> 01:31:16.000 Ricky is the teddy bear faced one. I think right now, 1668 01:31:17.039 --> 01:31:19.319 maybe Ricky is the chef's hat guy. 1669 01:31:21.760 --> 01:31:24.079 I think Freda Staire's Kerman. I could see him, you know, 1670 01:31:24.119 --> 01:31:24.800 cutting a rug. 1671 01:31:32.319 --> 01:31:33.920 What's the last one's name. 1672 01:31:34.960 --> 01:31:37.199 Well, it started out as Gonzo. He went through a 1673 01:31:37.239 --> 01:31:38.760 couple of morphs, you know what I mean, in the 1674 01:31:38.800 --> 01:31:41.520 GCD Muppet Factory, so it didn't come out as Gonzo, 1675 01:31:41.640 --> 01:31:42.800 but he started as Gonzo. 1676 01:31:43.800 --> 01:31:46.319 No, but the guy, the last guy in the movie, 1677 01:31:46.399 --> 01:31:49.199 the fat guy always sits in the chair. 1678 01:31:50.119 --> 01:31:52.800 Yeah, that's a good question. So we got Fred Astaire, right, 1679 01:31:52.840 --> 01:31:55.239 and start these four old muppets that you'll see there 1680 01:31:55.399 --> 01:31:59.520 and depicted in the My My Muppets Take Take the 1681 01:31:59.520 --> 01:32:03.479 Ghost Story Invasion. There we got the cast of Fred Astaire, 1682 01:32:03.560 --> 01:32:06.840 Ricky Hawthorne, right, we got Melvin Douglass. Y'all just mentioned 1683 01:32:06.840 --> 01:32:10.079 doctor John Jeffery. He's trying to out out JJ mee, 1684 01:32:10.079 --> 01:32:14.920 that son of a bitch, Douglas Fairbanks Junior, Edward Charles Wanderley, 1685 01:32:14.960 --> 01:32:18.039 and John Houseman Sears James Okay. 1686 01:32:17.880 --> 01:32:20.680 John Houseman is the Teddy bear faced one? 1687 01:32:21.399 --> 01:32:22.319 All right, fair enough? 1688 01:32:22.680 --> 01:32:25.520 I think that's yeah. 1689 01:32:25.560 --> 01:32:33.520 And then obviously Alice Kreig is Miss Piggy for sure. 1690 01:32:34.800 --> 01:32:37.880 So when, uh, was there anything about the director or 1691 01:32:38.079 --> 01:32:40.359 executive producer? I mean, it's all a little it about 1692 01:32:40.359 --> 01:32:43.359 the executive producer, but the director, he didn't really do 1693 01:32:43.479 --> 01:32:46.600 much of note or of colts or anything that's seemingly 1694 01:32:46.600 --> 01:32:48.199 of significance, to be quite honest with you. 1695 01:32:48.239 --> 01:32:51.439 Besides, yeah, I forget how he was assigned to this project. 1696 01:32:51.439 --> 01:32:56.439 I though the screenwriter h Lawrence Cohen. He had done 1697 01:32:56.520 --> 01:33:00.840 the screenplay for Carrie, the film version of Carrie. Yeah, 1698 01:33:01.079 --> 01:33:03.920 really really great job with that. Yeah, And you can 1699 01:33:03.920 --> 01:33:07.560 tell that he read Ghost Story because quotes from the 1700 01:33:07.600 --> 01:33:10.239 book pop up here and there, you know, throughout the film. 1701 01:33:12.399 --> 01:33:17.520 So it's the book is so long and involved and 1702 01:33:17.560 --> 01:33:20.359 has so many different characters and situations that you can 1703 01:33:20.399 --> 01:33:22.159 see why they had to kind of fold some of 1704 01:33:22.239 --> 01:33:26.199 them into each other and abbreviate some things, sure for 1705 01:33:26.319 --> 01:33:26.720 the movie. 1706 01:33:26.800 --> 01:33:28.720 My only question with this guy, and you all may 1707 01:33:28.760 --> 01:33:31.000 have the same kind of Julia maybe thinking the same 1708 01:33:31.039 --> 01:33:34.439 thing as well there with your processed church understandings, what 1709 01:33:34.520 --> 01:33:36.760 was this dude doing in London in nineteen sixty four, 1710 01:33:36.800 --> 01:33:38.319 Because I'd be curious to them be saying out in 1711 01:33:38.319 --> 01:33:43.199 the Mayfair district that would that the plot was thick 1712 01:33:43.239 --> 01:33:44.920 And if he's if he's linked with the process in 1713 01:33:44.960 --> 01:33:47.279 the Mayfair district in sixty four, that's all I'm saying, 1714 01:33:47.399 --> 01:33:49.800 you know what I mean? Yeah, back of that India 1715 01:33:49.880 --> 01:33:51.760 Indica Cafe along with the Beatles. 1716 01:33:51.840 --> 01:33:55.880 Right, yeah, well he's the right age range, so it could. 1717 01:33:56.680 --> 01:33:58.800 Yeah. Right, he'd been twenty four years old the time 1718 01:33:58.840 --> 01:34:01.680 he'd been writing their Wheelhouse of Croup. I would imagine 1719 01:34:01.960 --> 01:34:05.760 yeah now, and I just say that because like he's 1720 01:34:05.800 --> 01:34:08.960 doing stuff for and and broadcasting film Ember in BBC. 1721 01:34:09.079 --> 01:34:12.079 Looks like in that timeframe, right, see made for TV 1722 01:34:12.159 --> 01:34:13.199 films over there and whatnot. 1723 01:34:13.880 --> 01:34:22.560 Yeah, it says something about Christopher Walking in the eighties he. 1724 01:34:22.520 --> 01:34:25.640 Made Yeah, so this was his first movie. Yeah, this 1725 01:34:25.760 --> 01:34:27.720 was his first movie in America, and then Ghost Story 1726 01:34:27.800 --> 01:34:29.079 was number two. But yeah, dogs of. 1727 01:34:33.159 --> 01:34:43.319 JJ you cut out jj uh Oh he's froze. Are 1728 01:34:43.359 --> 01:34:45.560 you there? Yeah, you're back, you back? 1729 01:34:46.239 --> 01:34:48.520 Yeah. He also would do raw deal with that shitty 1730 01:34:48.600 --> 01:34:50.720 the shitty Belushi in Schwarzenegger. 1731 01:34:52.520 --> 01:34:53.520 I remember that one. 1732 01:34:56.279 --> 01:35:00.880 Well, you know, Christopher Walking is a whole nother podcast topic, 1733 01:35:01.119 --> 01:35:06.319 especially his weirdness with what's your Name? Natalie? 1734 01:35:06.600 --> 01:35:08.439 Natalie would yeah, Natalie. 1735 01:35:08.159 --> 01:35:11.199 Oh, yeah, for sure. This is this is a this 1736 01:35:11.239 --> 01:35:13.439 is a weird movie. This is weird. I'm reading the synopsis. 1737 01:35:13.560 --> 01:35:15.920 This is a fucking weird movie, dude. 1738 01:35:17.279 --> 01:35:19.199 It looks like he has black Face on. 1739 01:35:20.119 --> 01:35:23.960 Based on the Angola mercenary situation. 1740 01:35:23.960 --> 01:35:25.800 Like, why are they making this movie in the first place, 1741 01:35:25.920 --> 01:35:27.640 what's the And then they say that they based it 1742 01:35:27.680 --> 01:35:30.600 off of a phrase from William Shakespeare. I just feel 1743 01:35:30.600 --> 01:35:32.279 like there's a lot more to this film too, right. 1744 01:35:33.399 --> 01:35:37.840 William Shakespeare looks like an interesting one, and I would 1745 01:35:37.880 --> 01:35:40.960 wonder if it had anything to do with the fact that, 1746 01:35:41.000 --> 01:35:43.119 you know, a lot of those mercenaries that wound up 1747 01:35:43.119 --> 01:35:49.399 in Angola, they were trained at Jonestown, the same grounds there, right. 1748 01:35:49.520 --> 01:35:51.319 You know exactly what I'm talking about, sir. This is 1749 01:35:51.359 --> 01:35:53.720 the interesting details you're picking You're picking up what I'm 1750 01:35:53.720 --> 01:35:56.039 what I'm talking about there, Johnny, You're a very smart man. 1751 01:35:56.079 --> 01:35:57.279 You know exactly what I'm talking about. 1752 01:35:57.960 --> 01:36:00.199 I've just been that same note. 1753 01:36:00.800 --> 01:36:04.239 On that same note that that creepy sigh op situation 1754 01:36:04.359 --> 01:36:05.960 or whatever the hell it popped off in Minnesota over 1755 01:36:05.960 --> 01:36:08.000 the weekend with those lawmakers up there getting marked in 1756 01:36:08.000 --> 01:36:11.079 the middle of the night. That dude operates a security 1757 01:36:11.119 --> 01:36:12.960 company out of the Congo. And that's the first thing 1758 01:36:13.000 --> 01:36:14.399 I thought of when I read that detail, is what 1759 01:36:14.439 --> 01:36:15.520 you just said there, john. 1760 01:36:15.760 --> 01:36:21.199 Yeah, Yeah, things are still happening. We I think we 1761 01:36:21.239 --> 01:36:24.560 live in much more interesting times than people might generally think. 1762 01:36:24.800 --> 01:36:26.960 You know, all the crazy stuff that happened in the 1763 01:36:27.000 --> 01:36:29.920 sixties and seventies, we still we get our own versions 1764 01:36:29.960 --> 01:36:30.960 of that even today. 1765 01:36:31.840 --> 01:36:34.720 Oh, I tell you, I don't think that. I didn't 1766 01:36:34.720 --> 01:36:36.800 realize John Irvan did this film. I love this film. 1767 01:36:37.680 --> 01:36:38.960 I don't know if I've seen this one. 1768 01:36:39.279 --> 01:36:40.920 I have not seen this one. 1769 01:36:42.479 --> 01:36:45.760 To give you an abridged version, US Army Airborne Ranger 1770 01:36:46.279 --> 01:36:49.640 raised an apple aachi at Truman Gates migrates Chicago to 1771 01:36:49.680 --> 01:36:53.800 become a police officer. That's Patrick Swayze. Oh, hal breaks 1772 01:36:53.840 --> 01:36:56.159 Lucy starts battling with the mob, which is Ben Stiller 1773 01:36:56.319 --> 01:36:58.680 was like the son of the mob, and in the 1774 01:36:58.680 --> 01:37:01.640 the uh, I don't know whatever mob was in Chicago 1775 01:37:01.680 --> 01:37:04.680 at the time. I think they were re taling about. Remember, 1776 01:37:05.720 --> 01:37:08.760 but Liam Neeson comes in there and he gets murked 1777 01:37:08.840 --> 01:37:11.000 spill alert, and that's his brother and then the whole 1778 01:37:11.359 --> 01:37:14.359 Then everyone comes from Appalachia there in Kentucky to come 1779 01:37:14.439 --> 01:37:17.319 Avenger's brother's murdered Chicago. They start murking folks in Chicago 1780 01:37:17.359 --> 01:37:19.840 Appleacha style. I like that. I like that. 1781 01:37:20.840 --> 01:37:24.039 Well, you know, I love Bill Paxton, but I will 1782 01:37:24.079 --> 01:37:24.479 just say a. 1783 01:37:24.479 --> 01:37:29.199 Lot of ex a lot of excitement. Yeah, Bill Paxton, 1784 01:37:29.279 --> 01:37:31.159 you got Baldwin. 1785 01:37:32.079 --> 01:37:33.600 Which bald is that? 1786 01:37:33.600 --> 01:37:36.680 That's not no, it's the non Baldwin Baldwin. He'll recognize 1787 01:37:36.680 --> 01:37:43.920 his face as I go ahead. 1788 01:37:44.720 --> 01:37:46.720 I was just gonna say if he was part of 1789 01:37:46.720 --> 01:37:49.880 the Baldwins. I just learned something very interesting about them 1790 01:37:49.880 --> 01:37:57.079 today that their bloodline includes all kinds of weird upper echelon, 1791 01:37:57.279 --> 01:38:05.960 including like several presidents he'll Clinton and like some weird inbred. 1792 01:38:05.640 --> 01:38:08.319 Like wait, wait, who was this? Who were we talking about. 1793 01:38:08.159 --> 01:38:09.439 The Baldwin family. 1794 01:38:10.279 --> 01:38:12.199 Oh, I'm not surprised by any of this. This makes 1795 01:38:12.239 --> 01:38:12.560 sense to me. 1796 01:38:12.720 --> 01:38:15.680 Right, But I mean they were talking about it openly 1797 01:38:15.720 --> 01:38:19.439 on this podcast thing and oh shit, like bragging about it, like, 1798 01:38:19.479 --> 01:38:24.720 oh yeah, we're related to you know, upper echelon and 1799 01:38:24.800 --> 01:38:27.079 like these old in bread fox that used to have 1800 01:38:27.239 --> 01:38:31.600 klutter palettes and stuff like that. And somebody wrote in 1801 01:38:31.680 --> 01:38:35.239 the comment section Bill Paxton is dead. I know, And 1802 01:38:35.359 --> 01:38:39.319 I'm really sad about that because I really loved Tim Well. 1803 01:38:39.600 --> 01:38:41.880 Now that I'm now that we're considering John Urbans works 1804 01:38:41.880 --> 01:38:44.479 and he's more of an esoteric understanding here, I also 1805 01:38:44.560 --> 01:38:46.439 love Bill Paxton. By the way, he's a great actor. 1806 01:38:47.560 --> 01:38:50.680 I see Joey Rosalini here is the name listed as 1807 01:38:50.760 --> 01:38:53.199 this character that kills Liam Neest in that story. And 1808 01:38:53.279 --> 01:38:56.520 that's interesting because you know, Johnny Roselli was the famous 1809 01:38:56.720 --> 01:38:59.800 mobster out of Chicago associated with the JFK Biz and 1810 01:39:00.000 --> 01:39:01.880 a lot of the other characters were discussing here within 1811 01:39:01.920 --> 01:39:04.520 these this processing kind of element, right. 1812 01:39:05.439 --> 01:39:10.279 Johnny Roselli was also tied up with Marilyn Monroe. 1813 01:39:11.119 --> 01:39:13.720 Well, that's what I'm saying. His sidekick was Frank Sinatra, 1814 01:39:13.760 --> 01:39:16.119 and Frank Sinatra and the entire rat pack. In my opinion, 1815 01:39:16.479 --> 01:39:19.560 we're involved with the process, not just Mia Farrow's wife, 1816 01:39:19.600 --> 01:39:22.680 not just Sammy Davis Junior, right, the stars of who 1817 01:39:22.760 --> 01:39:26.079 starred in Bob Cocaine, Evans and Roman Planski's cinematic shit 1818 01:39:26.079 --> 01:39:30.000 show to Satanism Rosemary's Baby. But there's more connections, and 1819 01:39:30.079 --> 01:39:32.359 I actually have those connections on deck here. But before 1820 01:39:32.359 --> 01:39:33.960 we go any further from John Irvin, do you all 1821 01:39:33.960 --> 01:39:35.079 have any more comments on him? 1822 01:39:37.439 --> 01:39:39.960 No, I don't have anything to add. 1823 01:39:40.680 --> 01:39:44.279 How about the executive producer, Bert Weissberd. 1824 01:39:45.800 --> 01:39:49.039 Is he an asshole or not? Yeah? 1825 01:39:49.239 --> 01:39:51.680 Again, he didn't really like these guys didn't really seem 1826 01:39:51.720 --> 01:39:56.720 to do a lot of significant stuff after this film. 1827 01:39:56.840 --> 01:39:59.760 Yeah, I just remember seeing his name in the credits 1828 01:39:59.760 --> 01:40:03.399 of the movie, but I don't know anything about him. 1829 01:40:02.960 --> 01:40:05.560 Uh, there's not much. Yeah, I couldn't find much about 1830 01:40:05.600 --> 01:40:06.920 him either, to be quite honest with you. 1831 01:40:07.239 --> 01:40:10.159 Looks like the film. There was Sam Sheppard, which is 1832 01:40:10.199 --> 01:40:12.159 interesting because he was he had a thing with Patty 1833 01:40:12.239 --> 01:40:13.199 Smith for a little while. 1834 01:40:13.319 --> 01:40:15.920 So well as you say that he started and that's 1835 01:40:15.960 --> 01:40:18.760 Sam Shepherd and he starts with with Sissy SpaceX. So 1836 01:40:18.760 --> 01:40:19.920 what do you got on Sam Shepherd? 1837 01:40:20.880 --> 01:40:23.840 Yeah, he was just he he had a brief affair 1838 01:40:23.960 --> 01:40:27.399 with with Patty Smith and they they wrote a play 1839 01:40:27.399 --> 01:40:31.000 about it, Cowboy Mouth. But they're both actually performed in 1840 01:40:31.079 --> 01:40:37.159 course that's named after Bob Dylan lyric. But yeah, mainly 1841 01:40:37.199 --> 01:40:39.199 just his his association with Patti Smith. 1842 01:40:39.199 --> 01:40:41.439 There, hear me if I'm wrong, One of these cult 1843 01:40:41.560 --> 01:40:44.439 nicknames for Ronald Sisman was Sissy SpaceX. 1844 01:40:44.039 --> 01:40:46.560 Right, that's right, Yeah, that's right. 1845 01:40:47.119 --> 01:40:49.239 And Sissy Spacek was a Ford model, was she not? 1846 01:40:52.159 --> 01:40:55.239 I believe she was. My guess, my my other quote, 1847 01:40:55.279 --> 01:40:57.560 my let me let me rephrase that this would not 1848 01:40:57.640 --> 01:40:59.720 be the only Ford model connected to the son of 1849 01:40:59.720 --> 01:41:00.720 Sam's situation, right. 1850 01:41:00.920 --> 01:41:01.640 Right right that? 1851 01:41:02.039 --> 01:41:06.880 Yeah, yeah, I believe that's where she starts off. Though 1852 01:41:06.880 --> 01:41:08.800 I was working for the Ford Modeling Agency, and if 1853 01:41:08.840 --> 01:41:11.640 I can unfuck my ability to click links here and 1854 01:41:11.880 --> 01:41:13.960 move my dubie out of the way, I'll let us 1855 01:41:14.000 --> 01:41:16.479 know that for certain. But I'm pretty there were some 1856 01:41:17.000 --> 01:41:22.560 there were some wasn't Wasn't there a Ford Modeling Agency connection? 1857 01:41:22.640 --> 01:41:24.800 What am I thinking of besides possibly her? What was 1858 01:41:24.840 --> 01:41:25.680 going on there with that? 1859 01:41:26.000 --> 01:41:26.199 There? 1860 01:41:26.399 --> 01:41:29.680 I've heard something about that, but I'm I'm reaching back 1861 01:41:29.880 --> 01:41:32.600 years to figure out what I heard about it, and 1862 01:41:32.640 --> 01:41:35.359 I can't remember exactly what it was, but there was, there. 1863 01:41:35.199 --> 01:41:37.399 Was Let's let's put a penn put it for a 1864 01:41:37.439 --> 01:41:40.239 future one because well, future one is in two seconds 1865 01:41:40.279 --> 01:41:43.359 from now after I read this. Because in nineteen sixty 1866 01:41:43.520 --> 01:41:46.479 under the stage name Rainbow, she recorded a single John 1867 01:41:46.520 --> 01:41:49.119 You Went Too Far This Time, the lyrics of which 1868 01:41:49.199 --> 01:41:51.399 chida John Lennon and for his Yoko Owner his new 1869 01:41:51.439 --> 01:41:56.039 album for two versions. So that's interesting. Basic worked as 1870 01:41:56.039 --> 01:41:58.520 a photographic model represented by Ford Models. 1871 01:41:58.560 --> 01:42:01.800 There you go, oh, there it is and is an. 1872 01:42:01.640 --> 01:42:04.960 Extra Andy Warhol's right, So you have more connections with 1873 01:42:05.000 --> 01:42:08.439 the Velvet Underground. Uh, allegedly linked to this through folks 1874 01:42:08.479 --> 01:42:13.439 like Lou Reid. Right, Lou was Mabel Thorpe Smith, kind 1875 01:42:13.439 --> 01:42:14.880 of that Velvet Underground Andy Warhol. 1876 01:42:14.960 --> 01:42:17.520 Next, he knew Petty and he played with her on 1877 01:42:17.600 --> 01:42:23.079 stage a couple of times. Uh. I'm not sure exactly 1878 01:42:23.079 --> 01:42:26.239 how extensive Lou's involvement in this stuff was, but he 1879 01:42:26.319 --> 01:42:28.199 must have known about it because all these people were 1880 01:42:28.199 --> 01:42:30.000 doing this stuff at that point, you know. 1881 01:42:30.199 --> 01:42:32.960 Yeah, they're they're, they're they practiced at the Andy Warhol 1882 01:42:33.000 --> 01:42:35.840 studio that was there, much like the Birds did Polkas 1883 01:42:35.880 --> 01:42:39.279 the studio, right, Julia the the the Velvet Underground did 1884 01:42:39.279 --> 01:42:42.279 Andy Warhol studio. So we see the more comparisons. 1885 01:42:42.600 --> 01:42:43.000 Did you. 1886 01:42:44.520 --> 01:42:49.239 Watch Men in Black? The third Men in Black movie. 1887 01:42:49.720 --> 01:42:52.239 With with Josh Brolin? 1888 01:42:52.880 --> 01:42:55.800 With Josh Brolin, Yeah, do you remember how they said 1889 01:42:55.840 --> 01:43:01.840 Andy Warhol was a CIA agent and all the models were, Yeah, 1890 01:43:01.880 --> 01:43:06.399 they were extraterrestrials, which I know, but I do think 1891 01:43:06.439 --> 01:43:09.079 they were making a reference to Andy Warholl being c 1892 01:43:09.239 --> 01:43:10.199 I A for sure. 1893 01:43:10.199 --> 01:43:11.960 I don't want to Yeah, I don't want to derail 1894 01:43:11.960 --> 01:43:13.600 this too much because you just brought in a connection 1895 01:43:13.640 --> 01:43:15.600 with his stepmother, back to all these these characters that 1896 01:43:15.640 --> 01:43:18.439 brought Barbara streisand however, and that was with her with 1897 01:43:18.520 --> 01:43:20.600 Warren Batty, the Young Turk. So there's a lot of 1898 01:43:20.600 --> 01:43:24.640 these connections with these with these people. Right. So, well, 1899 01:43:24.960 --> 01:43:26.399 we've I think we just put a pen at least 1900 01:43:26.399 --> 01:43:28.920 in my brain hole for a future couple of conversations here. 1901 01:43:28.920 --> 01:43:31.439 But if we go back to John Irvin and we 1902 01:43:31.479 --> 01:43:34.960 were doing the the next tup, I guess we're we're 1903 01:43:35.000 --> 01:43:38.319 not talking about the the cast. Yeah, let's go to 1904 01:43:38.359 --> 01:43:40.680 the cast. We got obviously the most notable cast member, 1905 01:43:40.720 --> 01:43:42.960 Fred Astare. But you know, I don't know, I'd like 1906 01:43:43.039 --> 01:43:44.760 to hear what your old's thoughts are. I don't know 1907 01:43:44.840 --> 01:43:46.960 that I've really I could never really, I've never heard 1908 01:43:46.960 --> 01:43:48.319 a lot of creepy stories about us. 1909 01:43:48.359 --> 01:43:48.680 There. 1910 01:43:48.960 --> 01:43:51.199 I'm open to it. I couldn't really find anything too 1911 01:43:51.239 --> 01:43:53.520 creepy about the guy, So I'm again, I'm open to it. 1912 01:43:53.600 --> 01:43:58.800 But yeah, I've never heard of he's he's never heard 1913 01:43:58.840 --> 01:44:02.000 any particularly bad stories about it. The interesting thing about 1914 01:44:02.039 --> 01:44:07.079 him for the role is that in the novel, Peter 1915 01:44:07.159 --> 01:44:10.720 Straub says he describes Ricky Hawthorne as looking like Freda Staire, 1916 01:44:10.880 --> 01:44:14.359 so presumably that's that's why he and Peter Straub himself 1917 01:44:14.399 --> 01:44:16.279 said that that was one of his favorite things about 1918 01:44:16.319 --> 01:44:18.279 the movie was that Freda Staire played the role. 1919 01:44:19.640 --> 01:44:24.079 Wow, Okay, you know the main star is of this 1920 01:44:24.159 --> 01:44:28.119 whole story is actually really just the author, Like he 1921 01:44:28.239 --> 01:44:30.279 made this what it is. 1922 01:44:30.880 --> 01:44:35.319 You know, Yeah, I think it's the story could have 1923 01:44:35.359 --> 01:44:38.159 been told by somebody else, but but being told by 1924 01:44:38.199 --> 01:44:40.640 him made it special. I think it did. Yeah, because 1925 01:44:40.640 --> 01:44:46.159 it's it's a really really great book and it's uh, 1926 01:44:46.760 --> 01:44:50.520 I can't think of a single more brilliant author of 1927 01:44:51.439 --> 01:44:56.159 popular fiction than Peter Stroud. But it just man to 1928 01:44:56.239 --> 01:44:59.520 know that he was aware of a lot of this stuff. 1929 01:44:59.319 --> 01:45:03.239 Is just uh well, yeah, came out for. 1930 01:45:03.560 --> 01:45:06.319 A couple of years. Yeah, it was hard to to 1931 01:45:06.800 --> 01:45:09.319 see it in a different life that way, but yeah, sure. 1932 01:45:10.319 --> 01:45:12.239 Well I think one thing I thought was interesting with Hysteric, 1933 01:45:12.359 --> 01:45:14.479 especially because I think it's good for all four of 1934 01:45:14.520 --> 01:45:17.119 the main cast members. This is their last film, right. 1935 01:45:17.840 --> 01:45:19.520 That's true. Well except for John Houseman. 1936 01:45:19.640 --> 01:45:21.720 Yeah, he did a couple more. 1937 01:45:21.800 --> 01:45:30.159 Okay, he was the growth angry guy. 1938 01:45:31.000 --> 01:45:33.560 Oh okay, and bring that up for you. I don't 1939 01:45:33.560 --> 01:45:35.520 know why I don't what happened to him? Here hold 1940 01:45:35.560 --> 01:45:38.760 on stand By Police. Yeah, he's he's a pretty notable 1941 01:45:39.000 --> 01:45:41.479 voice and face right in Hollywood and Housman over the 1942 01:45:41.560 --> 01:45:42.239 years he was. 1943 01:45:42.319 --> 01:45:44.439 Yeah, he did a lot of commercials and he didn't 1944 01:45:44.439 --> 01:45:46.439 act until later in life. He was an acting coach 1945 01:45:46.479 --> 01:45:48.840 for a long time. He worked at UH I think 1946 01:45:48.840 --> 01:45:51.880 at Paramount. He was a good friend of Raven Chandler. 1947 01:45:52.479 --> 01:45:55.640 But he didn't act until fairly late in life. 1948 01:45:56.199 --> 01:45:59.159 Well, that's interesting, Paramount. You say. 1949 01:46:00.159 --> 01:46:01.479 He died on Halloween. 1950 01:46:03.279 --> 01:46:07.159 That's yeah, Yeah. 1951 01:46:06.119 --> 01:46:06.840 That's weird. 1952 01:46:07.359 --> 01:46:10.880 Let's see how I don't know enough about him to 1953 01:46:10.920 --> 01:46:13.960 tell you how that went down, so essentially, well, I mean, sorry, 1954 01:46:13.960 --> 01:46:15.159 eventually we'll get down there. 1955 01:46:15.479 --> 01:46:18.880 I think he looked pretty bad the last time I 1956 01:46:18.880 --> 01:46:20.039 saw him. I can remember him. 1957 01:46:20.079 --> 01:46:23.239 But yeah, oh yep, spinal cancer. 1958 01:46:24.239 --> 01:46:24.439 See. 1959 01:46:24.479 --> 01:46:26.439 I didn't know he was married to Zita Johan, but 1960 01:46:26.560 --> 01:46:31.079 she was. She had a really odd mystical quality about her. 1961 01:46:31.159 --> 01:46:33.640 She was in the Mummy with Boris Karloff. I had 1962 01:46:33.680 --> 01:46:35.039 no idea that John Housman. 1963 01:46:34.840 --> 01:46:36.600 Was married her, but she was interesting. 1964 01:46:36.880 --> 01:46:37.239 Interesting. 1965 01:46:38.000 --> 01:46:41.279 Yeah, he appears with some scientologists as his last film 1966 01:46:41.279 --> 01:46:48.880 looks like yeah, yeah, Priscilla Presley and Orenthal, James Simpson scientologists. 1967 01:46:51.159 --> 01:46:54.319 God, he was the driver's ed instructor in that. Yeah. 1968 01:46:55.319 --> 01:46:59.359 Yeah, well me and JJ just did an episode. 1969 01:46:58.840 --> 01:47:02.079 On O j Oh. Folks were loving that. Julia Again, 1970 01:47:02.119 --> 01:47:03.760 I have to thank you again for even suggesting that, 1971 01:47:03.760 --> 01:47:06.560 because the folks have been enjoying that one. For sure. 1972 01:47:06.600 --> 01:47:09.680 That was a real born I enjoyed myself. Actually, that 1973 01:47:09.840 --> 01:47:13.840 was a really fun episode. I was gonna say, you know, 1974 01:47:14.159 --> 01:47:16.560 just I don't know if it's the right time to 1975 01:47:16.560 --> 01:47:18.800 bring it up or not, but you know what I thought, 1976 01:47:22.199 --> 01:47:25.920 So maybe you guys. Obviously John's gonna disagree because he 1977 01:47:26.000 --> 01:47:28.159 read the book and he already knew what was going 1978 01:47:28.239 --> 01:47:31.000 to happen. But JJ, didn't you think that they were 1979 01:47:31.039 --> 01:47:33.840 all going to take turns rape in her and then 1980 01:47:34.000 --> 01:47:37.159 like accidentally kill her or like knock her out and 1981 01:47:37.239 --> 01:47:39.600 then or like hold a pillow over her face or 1982 01:47:39.600 --> 01:47:40.199 something like. 1983 01:47:40.399 --> 01:47:42.119 Yeah, I mean it is the eighties. It seemed like 1984 01:47:42.159 --> 01:47:45.439 the rapier era of films. So I agree with you, But. 1985 01:47:45.520 --> 01:47:48.239 Like you know what I'm saying, there's another I mean, 1986 01:47:48.359 --> 01:47:48.840 like you could. 1987 01:47:48.840 --> 01:47:50.399 Make Porky's in this day and age, right, you know 1988 01:47:50.439 --> 01:47:53.000 what I mean? It was very rapey right, right. 1989 01:47:53.319 --> 01:47:55.880 Well, it just it looked like all of them had 1990 01:47:55.880 --> 01:48:00.439 a crush on the main character, right, and they all 1991 01:48:00.479 --> 01:48:04.840 wanted her, but she was only interested in one of them. 1992 01:48:04.920 --> 01:48:07.119 So that scene at the end where they're all trying 1993 01:48:07.159 --> 01:48:09.359 to take turns dancing with her, I was like, Oh, 1994 01:48:09.399 --> 01:48:11.920 I know what's gonna happen. They're gonna take turns rape 1995 01:48:11.960 --> 01:48:14.840 in her. They're going to accidentally kill her, and that's 1996 01:48:14.920 --> 01:48:17.399 gonna be why she her ghost is coming back to 1997 01:48:17.399 --> 01:48:20.079 get revenges because they raped her and killed her. Sure 1998 01:48:20.079 --> 01:48:23.720 she didn't go as sinister as what I thought it would. 1999 01:48:24.000 --> 01:48:26.800 Well, I don't know though, if I made just interject 2000 01:48:26.840 --> 01:48:28.479 when they were dancing with her, I took that as 2001 01:48:28.560 --> 01:48:30.399 them having sex with her. So you saw three of 2002 01:48:30.439 --> 01:48:32.079 the four have sex with her, in my opinion, because 2003 01:48:32.119 --> 01:48:34.960 three of the four danced with her, right, But. 2004 01:48:34.920 --> 01:48:37.640 It didn't show them having sex with her, right. 2005 01:48:37.640 --> 01:48:39.279 But I'm saying it was a metaphorical I think that 2006 01:48:39.439 --> 01:48:40.960 to me, that was the metaphor that they were all 2007 01:48:41.039 --> 01:48:43.880 hooking up with homegirl and they're passing around because they 2008 01:48:43.880 --> 01:48:45.760 were all you know, it's like the song from the 2009 01:48:45.760 --> 01:48:48.800 eighties with the Billy idol dancing with myself. It's about masturbation, 2010 01:48:48.920 --> 01:48:49.359 you know what I mean. 2011 01:48:49.880 --> 01:48:53.199 Well, yeah, but there is another horror movie. That's why 2012 01:48:53.239 --> 01:48:55.720 I say, I feel like this book that got turned 2013 01:48:55.760 --> 01:48:59.119 into a movie obviously was the predecessor for the idea 2014 01:48:59.159 --> 01:49:03.159 of several several several future horror films. One of them 2015 01:49:03.439 --> 01:49:06.920 is called Stir of Echoes. It actually has Kevin Bacon. 2016 01:49:06.960 --> 01:49:08.640 It's one of my favorite horror movies. 2017 01:49:09.920 --> 01:49:12.119 Kevin Bacon, ma'am the Kevin Yeah. 2018 01:49:11.960 --> 01:49:16.680 The Kevin Bacon. And it's basically, this girl gets raped 2019 01:49:16.720 --> 01:49:19.119 by a bunch of dudes and they accidentally kill her, 2020 01:49:19.159 --> 01:49:21.399 and they hide her body somewhere and she comes back 2021 01:49:21.439 --> 01:49:23.880 as a ghost and haunts them all and is trying 2022 01:49:23.880 --> 01:49:24.319 to kill her. 2023 01:49:24.920 --> 01:49:28.760 That sounds very very ghost story. In a novel, she's 2024 01:49:29.399 --> 01:49:32.600 she's much more predatory. She gets drunk and she insists 2025 01:49:32.600 --> 01:49:34.399 that they all drink and dance with and they're like 2026 01:49:34.520 --> 01:49:38.079 starting to recoil from her, but she's being really vicious 2027 01:49:38.119 --> 01:49:41.279 and awful, and she grabs jaffery and says, kiss me 2028 01:49:41.319 --> 01:49:43.079 a little toad and all that stuff that she says 2029 01:49:43.079 --> 01:49:45.159 in the movie, and then one of them pushes her away, 2030 01:49:45.319 --> 01:49:48.079 just like you know, because they're all awkward and young, 2031 01:49:48.119 --> 01:49:50.960 you know. And yeah, they start to be repulsed by her, 2032 01:49:51.000 --> 01:49:53.680 and one of them pushes her away, not meaning to her, 2033 01:49:53.720 --> 01:49:55.000 but that's when she hits her head. 2034 01:49:55.079 --> 01:49:59.520 And yeah, yeah, there in lies there curse of this lady, 2035 01:49:59.520 --> 01:50:02.319 not the curse of of Robert the dollmind you, which 2036 01:50:02.359 --> 01:50:07.199 I you know, like a curse. Nonetheless, And and before 2037 01:50:07.279 --> 01:50:09.439 if I may have, before we go deep dive into 2038 01:50:09.479 --> 01:50:12.159 the full storyline there and how these things unfold, if 2039 01:50:12.159 --> 01:50:14.560 we could just finish off going over these four actors 2040 01:50:14.560 --> 01:50:19.279 that comprise these roles here, if we mentioned Melvin Douglas, 2041 01:50:19.640 --> 01:50:21.560 he's one of the he's the next guy. He's the doctor, right, 2042 01:50:21.560 --> 01:50:25.960 he's the jaffery guy. Yeah, what are your thoughts on 2043 01:50:26.000 --> 01:50:28.560 why this guy was cast? Was there any specific reasons 2044 01:50:28.640 --> 01:50:30.600 or anything else? He did that the Caltural's eyes. 2045 01:50:32.840 --> 01:50:36.039 Uh, I'm guessing he was. He had been in The Changeling, 2046 01:50:36.239 --> 01:50:39.600 another horror film, Yeah, a year earlier, and that's they 2047 01:50:39.640 --> 01:50:42.479 were probably thinking about the casting for that film. That's 2048 01:50:42.520 --> 01:50:43.319 a really good one. 2049 01:50:43.880 --> 01:50:47.239 Is the Is that the same Changeling that would that 2050 01:50:47.399 --> 01:50:52.000 would later get remade with uh Angelina Jolie. 2051 01:50:53.239 --> 01:50:53.920 I'm not sure. 2052 01:50:54.319 --> 01:50:56.159 Oh that I don't know same name. 2053 01:50:56.079 --> 01:50:59.359 Though, right, yeah, it's the same name. I'm just curious 2054 01:50:59.439 --> 01:51:02.439 as to if it this was the original and the 2055 01:51:02.439 --> 01:51:05.880 one that Angeline and Joelie did was a remake because 2056 01:51:05.920 --> 01:51:09.199 the one that she's in was about child trafficking and 2057 01:51:09.399 --> 01:51:10.840 program serial killers. 2058 01:51:12.439 --> 01:51:14.479 That's this one, right, Yeah, it's a different spot line. 2059 01:51:14.960 --> 01:51:20.920 Yeah, like a straight haunted house movie. But it was 2060 01:51:21.319 --> 01:51:22.279 written well. 2061 01:51:22.920 --> 01:51:25.000 So Melvioln dovelason that that'll be an interesting one to 2062 01:51:25.079 --> 01:51:28.800 check out. And then was was there anything else that 2063 01:51:28.880 --> 01:51:31.199 jump at you? With the with old mill here? 2064 01:51:32.039 --> 01:51:36.600 He's like a classically handsome guy for the era. 2065 01:51:36.880 --> 01:51:38.680 Do you mean handsome. 2066 01:51:42.960 --> 01:51:43.439 Handsome? 2067 01:51:44.439 --> 01:51:46.039 No, you know what I mean, like Rock Hudson, you 2068 01:51:46.119 --> 01:51:48.319 know what I mean. He famously joined Scientology of the 2069 01:51:48.359 --> 01:51:50.520 same kind of era of acting, and you know, hide 2070 01:51:50.520 --> 01:51:52.399 his homosexual activities, right, you know. 2071 01:51:52.520 --> 01:51:56.279 That there's definitely some There's always going to be some 2072 01:51:56.359 --> 01:51:56.720 of that. 2073 01:51:58.039 --> 01:52:01.439 Right right. He just kind of he struck me as 2074 01:52:01.439 --> 01:52:03.359 a very rock huts and type of character, is what 2075 01:52:03.399 --> 01:52:03.840 I'm saying. 2076 01:52:04.319 --> 01:52:04.720 Mm hmm. 2077 01:52:06.199 --> 01:52:08.119 So the one thing I found most interesting about this 2078 01:52:08.159 --> 01:52:12.680 guy is he did a film called Be There, Be 2079 01:52:12.800 --> 01:52:16.520 There with Peter Sellers, famously of the Ciela Drive. Manson 2080 01:52:17.079 --> 01:52:20.920 Tate Plansky processed church situation out there in Siella Drive 2081 01:52:20.960 --> 01:52:23.840 that culminated in the Manson Family murders. Peter Sellers was 2082 01:52:23.840 --> 01:52:26.920 the regular and so was the director of this film. 2083 01:52:27.279 --> 01:52:30.640 That was Ruman Plansky's best friend Jerry cool Zenski. 2084 01:52:32.920 --> 01:52:35.760 So he's besties with all those fucks. 2085 01:52:35.840 --> 01:52:39.119 Huh, Jerry Kazinsky right here, you know this was this 2086 01:52:39.319 --> 01:52:42.239 was the best friend born and Paul and this is 2087 01:52:42.319 --> 01:52:46.199 best friends of old Rum and Polanski. You know, Rouman 2088 01:52:46.239 --> 01:52:49.000 Plansky friends with old Cocaine Bob Roman Plansk. 2089 01:52:49.159 --> 01:52:50.760 Oh, here we go. 2090 01:52:52.960 --> 01:52:56.199 I saw being there, but it was years and I 2091 01:52:56.199 --> 01:52:57.640 would have been a little kid when I saw it, 2092 01:52:57.640 --> 01:52:59.239 So I don't remember much about it, but I do. 2093 01:52:59.439 --> 01:53:01.119 Yeah, I don't know much about either. I mean, it 2094 01:53:01.119 --> 01:53:04.039 says it's a satirical comedy drama, which is an odd 2095 01:53:04.079 --> 01:53:09.720 phrasing of a genre of words in my opinion. So 2096 01:53:09.800 --> 01:53:12.720 Peter Sellers, y'all know about him relative to the Manson 2097 01:53:12.920 --> 01:53:16.079 situation and the process seeing out there and La in 2098 01:53:16.119 --> 01:53:17.239 sixty nine sixties. 2099 01:53:18.039 --> 01:53:22.439 Yeah, I've read about it in Dave Mcowan's work. 2100 01:53:22.880 --> 01:53:24.279 Well, there you go. What do you recall from that? 2101 01:53:24.279 --> 01:53:26.760 Because he was very tight right with this is? This 2102 01:53:26.800 --> 01:53:29.720 is Peter Sellers with Sharon Tate and Christmas is sixty eight. 2103 01:53:30.640 --> 01:53:34.680 I somehow, maybe I'm fucking this up, But wasn't he 2104 01:53:34.800 --> 01:53:39.159 also somehow friends with the Wonderland Avenue people too? 2105 01:53:39.880 --> 01:53:41.760 Oh? That that would be interesting. I'm not sure that 2106 01:53:41.800 --> 01:53:42.640 would be interesting though. 2107 01:53:42.960 --> 01:53:45.840 Maybe I'm remembering wrong. Maybe I'm remembering the whole scene. 2108 01:53:46.359 --> 01:53:48.000 That's the whole scene now, I mean, that's those people 2109 01:53:48.039 --> 01:53:50.359 were integrating the whole scene come the seventies, right. 2110 01:53:50.840 --> 01:53:53.079 Yeah, like he bought drugs from them or something. 2111 01:53:53.159 --> 01:53:57.000 I don't know that wouldn't I wouldn't be surprised, would Yeah, 2112 01:53:57.159 --> 01:54:04.560 I would say most people, now go ahead. 2113 01:54:05.039 --> 01:54:07.680 I was just gonna say. Somebody put in the comments. Yeah, 2114 01:54:07.800 --> 01:54:11.560 Peter Sellers was a cruel psychopath behind closed doors, much 2115 01:54:11.720 --> 01:54:15.760 like how they describe Frank Zappa among. 2116 01:54:16.359 --> 01:54:21.439 Other same scene though, right these guys, right, I mean sailors, 2117 01:54:21.600 --> 01:54:25.359 I mean Sellers. So amongst these, uh, the various videos 2118 01:54:25.359 --> 01:54:27.960 and pornographies, et cetera that we're allegedly filmed at Cielo Drive, 2119 01:54:28.039 --> 01:54:30.560 Sellers was deep in that mix, apparently, along with folks 2120 01:54:30.600 --> 01:54:34.760 like I mentioned before, Josh Brown, stepmother's old boyfriend, Warren Batty. 2121 01:54:35.880 --> 01:54:41.119 Oh, Warren Baty, don't get me started on him. 2122 01:54:41.399 --> 01:54:45.000 Best Buds Kissinger and Cocaine Bob National Security never looks 2123 01:54:45.000 --> 01:54:46.960 so sleazy. I like that. I like that phrasing. Todd 2124 01:54:47.000 --> 01:54:49.600 Miller appreciate that. So, yeah, I think it's odd. You 2125 01:54:49.640 --> 01:54:52.079 see this deep connection with all these kind of even 2126 01:54:52.079 --> 01:54:54.119 within this film, right, you got these people that you know, 2127 01:54:54.279 --> 01:54:56.319 you got Jerry Kazinski in the orbit, you got Peter 2128 01:54:56.399 --> 01:55:00.000 Sellers in the orbit of of uh what's his name? Uh, 2129 01:55:00.720 --> 01:55:01.760 Melvin Douglas. 2130 01:55:02.920 --> 01:55:06.640 Well, it's kind of like guilt by association, right, your 2131 01:55:06.760 --> 01:55:10.600 friends circle is got it's. 2132 01:55:10.560 --> 01:55:14.439 Weird, you know, the Beatles and Stones and Keith Richards 2133 01:55:14.439 --> 01:55:19.039 living next to h John Phillips and yeah yeah, m 2134 01:55:19.680 --> 01:55:20.119 m hmm. 2135 01:55:20.960 --> 01:55:23.039 So the next the last guy we got here is 2136 01:55:23.079 --> 01:55:26.159 the main the main four old dudes is Douglas Fairbanks Junior. 2137 01:55:27.079 --> 01:55:28.760 Yeah, ned the mayor. 2138 01:55:29.279 --> 01:55:34.600 Yeah, I got something interesting please. It says his first 2139 01:55:35.079 --> 01:55:38.319 marriage was to actress Joan Crawford. Isn't she the one 2140 01:55:38.359 --> 01:55:41.119 that beat her kids up and locked him in rooms 2141 01:55:41.119 --> 01:55:46.279 and beat them with hangers and ship ship? Okay, yeah, yeah, 2142 01:55:46.600 --> 01:55:52.479 you've never seen mommy dearest JJ. Well you're fucking up, 2143 01:55:52.520 --> 01:55:56.439 because that is an amazing movie and there's a lot 2144 01:55:56.520 --> 01:55:59.359 of quotable lines from that movie. But yeah, she adopted 2145 01:55:59.399 --> 01:56:02.119 two kids in and then just beat the shit out 2146 01:56:02.159 --> 01:56:05.880 of them their entire life, just beat the shit and 2147 01:56:06.000 --> 01:56:09.079 she would handcuff them to the bed at night, all 2148 01:56:09.199 --> 01:56:12.119 kinds of stuff, psycho. 2149 01:56:12.159 --> 01:56:14.359 And I always thought she was one of the people 2150 01:56:14.439 --> 01:56:17.199 that you could tell just looking at her that something 2151 01:56:17.279 --> 01:56:19.520 was a little off, you know. 2152 01:56:19.680 --> 01:56:24.800 Yeah, yeah, yeah, JJ, you need to watch that because 2153 01:56:25.239 --> 01:56:27.960 I even put I even took something from this movie 2154 01:56:28.039 --> 01:56:32.039 and I put it into my intro for my podcast 2155 01:56:32.199 --> 01:56:34.439 because it's just so iconic. But anyways, yeah, she was 2156 01:56:34.520 --> 01:56:39.479 horrible to her children who she adopted, and she was 2157 01:56:39.520 --> 01:56:42.359 in the Have you ever seen a weird horror movie 2158 01:56:42.439 --> 01:56:45.359 from back then called Baby Jane? 2159 01:56:45.680 --> 01:56:47.960 I've actually heard of that. Yeah, yeah, whatever. 2160 01:56:47.720 --> 01:56:48.680 Happened to Baby Jane? 2161 01:56:48.840 --> 01:56:50.159 Whatever happened to Baby Jane? 2162 01:56:50.159 --> 01:56:52.199 One of my fav you're talking about. 2163 01:56:52.920 --> 01:56:56.560 She's in it. And the first time I watched it, 2164 01:56:56.600 --> 01:56:58.359 my mom was like, oh, do you know the true 2165 01:56:58.399 --> 01:57:00.399 story about what she did to her care kids? And 2166 01:57:00.439 --> 01:57:04.800 then we hadmidarist after that. But yeah, Jill Crawford real 2167 01:57:04.880 --> 01:57:05.399 fucked up. 2168 01:57:07.600 --> 01:57:09.680 I'm definitely gonna be watching that. I appreciate that, thank you. 2169 01:57:10.239 --> 01:57:10.760 Mm hmmm. 2170 01:57:11.560 --> 01:57:14.000 So what else did her? So what these weren't that 2171 01:57:14.159 --> 01:57:16.279 This wasn't the dad of that, right? Yeah? 2172 01:57:18.439 --> 01:57:22.000 Uh no, No, you talked about her kids? 2173 01:57:22.680 --> 01:57:26.760 Yeah, her kids? Yeah, okay, oh that's right, you just 2174 01:57:26.800 --> 01:57:28.119 said that. You just said that. 2175 01:57:28.600 --> 01:57:31.079 Well, that's what makes it worse is because like she 2176 01:57:31.279 --> 01:57:34.680 hated kids, So why the fuck would you go and 2177 01:57:34.720 --> 01:57:36.279 adopt two kids? 2178 01:57:36.439 --> 01:57:39.439 I think public image because she was seen as kind 2179 01:57:39.439 --> 01:57:42.800 of a brittle, unpleasant sort of person, and they told her, 2180 01:57:43.119 --> 01:57:45.840 you know, if you had some kids, it would improve 2181 01:57:45.880 --> 01:57:46.640 your public. 2182 01:57:46.359 --> 01:57:50.680 Image, right, And so she basically JJ she would like 2183 01:57:51.079 --> 01:57:54.560 John Banam and like dress them up in Christmas outfits 2184 01:57:54.600 --> 01:57:57.000 and stuff and like parade them around like they were 2185 01:57:57.079 --> 01:58:00.439 so happy, and you know, and the kids were just 2186 01:58:00.479 --> 01:58:03.199 getting tied up at night and beat with hangars and 2187 01:58:03.279 --> 01:58:05.920 all kinds of stuff. It's it's crazy. It's crazy. 2188 01:58:05.960 --> 01:58:09.279 Word out huh yeah, mmm, worn outer kids. So this 2189 01:58:09.319 --> 01:58:12.159 is what I found interesting about Fairbanks. During World War Two, 2190 01:58:12.439 --> 01:58:15.000 he served as a commissioned officer in the US Navy 2191 01:58:15.359 --> 01:58:18.000 and enter World War Two and assigned a Lord Mountbatten's 2192 01:58:18.079 --> 01:58:24.439 commando staff in the United Kingdom. 2193 01:58:22.039 --> 01:58:25.119 And he married a psychopath that beats her kids. 2194 01:58:25.199 --> 01:58:28.119 Right, Oh, you'll like this one. Also, he was he 2195 01:58:28.159 --> 01:58:30.640 was later implicated in the Profumo scandal. 2196 01:58:31.520 --> 01:58:36.319 That's yeah, yeah, that's pretty much a direct connection to 2197 01:58:36.359 --> 01:58:37.239 the process. Yeah. 2198 01:58:37.680 --> 01:58:40.199 Yeah, I mean it's long been suspected that Marianda Grimston 2199 01:58:40.239 --> 01:58:41.960 was one of the prostitutes in that scandal, but it's 2200 01:58:42.000 --> 01:58:44.560 not been confirmed, but there is to heavy suspicions of such. 2201 01:58:44.720 --> 01:58:44.920 Yep. 2202 01:58:45.680 --> 01:58:49.159 So he's the most interesting actor thus. 2203 01:58:49.000 --> 01:58:53.039 Far, between him and Douglas my opinion, you know those two. 2204 01:58:53.239 --> 01:58:55.640 Yeah, yeah, for sure. 2205 01:58:56.039 --> 01:58:58.119 So we get back into the plotline of the film. 2206 01:58:58.119 --> 01:59:01.520 As we've said, these four old men, sensibly at least 2207 01:59:01.600 --> 01:59:03.560 metaphorically speaking of the film, seemed to have raped this 2208 01:59:03.640 --> 01:59:05.960 young woman and she John, as you mentioned, she falls 2209 01:59:06.000 --> 01:59:08.119 down and and they think she's dead because she gets 2210 01:59:08.119 --> 01:59:09.840 her head right, that's right. 2211 01:59:09.960 --> 01:59:12.359 Yeah, this is. 2212 01:59:12.279 --> 01:59:15.600 The witchy woman that looks like Suzanne Conway right, Alma. 2213 01:59:15.399 --> 01:59:19.279 Right, right, or or Eva her name is at that time, right, 2214 01:59:19.760 --> 01:59:23.279 And it's I hate to keep bringing this up, but 2215 01:59:23.319 --> 01:59:27.840 it's just so there are so many points that there 2216 01:59:27.960 --> 01:59:31.720 was a real Eva and the character who appears later 2217 01:59:31.800 --> 01:59:36.119 in the Who the chatter society consults to see if 2218 01:59:36.119 --> 01:59:39.039 he can solve their problems. Is done well. There were 2219 01:59:39.079 --> 01:59:41.920 a real Don and Eva in the book. They're called 2220 01:59:42.000 --> 01:59:48.159 Don Wanderley and Eva Galley. Yeah. The real Don was 2221 01:59:48.239 --> 01:59:51.079 Don Warner, the guy who directed the play that Suzanne 2222 01:59:51.079 --> 01:59:53.479 Conway was in, and he had a wife named Eva. 2223 01:59:54.960 --> 01:59:59.039 That's how specific Straub's references were. 2224 01:59:59.600 --> 02:00:01.960 You ain't you can, dude. That's that's like on the money, 2225 02:00:01.960 --> 02:00:03.520 on the money, it really is. 2226 02:00:03.640 --> 02:00:13.119 Yeah, yeah, and that's right, Marie. It was yeah, yeah, yeah, dude. 2227 02:00:13.159 --> 02:00:14.680 I mean at some point, like what, at what point 2228 02:00:14.680 --> 02:00:17.119 in time did you consider like that Strawba obviously knew 2229 02:00:17.119 --> 02:00:20.000 a lot about this, like how many details of these 2230 02:00:20.079 --> 02:00:23.039 before you're like, wait a second, this is something's going 2231 02:00:23.039 --> 02:00:23.680 on here. 2232 02:00:25.279 --> 02:00:30.399 You know. It was maybe late twenty twenty. I was 2233 02:00:30.439 --> 02:00:33.760 rereading it for Halloween, like I do every year most years, 2234 02:00:34.039 --> 02:00:39.680 and it was I was sitting in my chair one 2235 02:00:39.800 --> 02:00:44.119 night and he was talking about neighborhoods in different places 2236 02:00:44.159 --> 02:00:47.560 in this fictional city of Melbourne, and because I had 2237 02:00:47.600 --> 02:00:49.920 been doing research, I just realized that every place he's 2238 02:00:49.920 --> 02:00:52.279 talking about is just a Yonker's reference, Like all the 2239 02:00:52.319 --> 02:00:56.359 street names. There's a minor character in the book named Venudi. 2240 02:00:56.479 --> 02:01:00.239 He's the pharmacist. It's a reference to Jove Nudi, who 2241 02:01:00.279 --> 02:01:03.279 is a political figure in Westchester in the forties and fifties. 2242 02:01:03.439 --> 02:01:06.359 It's just just one reference after another. But it's the 2243 02:01:06.439 --> 02:01:08.479 kind of thing that people aren't going to realize until 2244 02:01:08.520 --> 02:01:13.279 they're doing, you know, extensive newspaper research like often tedious, 2245 02:01:13.560 --> 02:01:16.039 but that's how I go across all those names. 2246 02:01:16.560 --> 02:01:19.119 Well, relative to that Wanderley guy you were just talking 2247 02:01:19.119 --> 02:01:21.720 about there, it says you're in your blog post. In 2248 02:01:21.760 --> 02:01:25.159 the book's prologue, a man named Don Wanderley has kidnapped 2249 02:01:25.159 --> 02:01:27.760 a young orphan girl from a park in Melbourne. It's 2250 02:01:27.760 --> 02:01:30.279 down in New York State. He drives her to Panama City, 2251 02:01:30.640 --> 02:01:32.760 which is the location of where John car was station. 2252 02:01:32.840 --> 02:01:36.000 It says, that's right, that's right. Yeah. 2253 02:01:36.359 --> 02:01:39.039 I just wanted to say this comment you got posted, 2254 02:01:39.479 --> 02:01:42.720 Todd said, I learned everything about the Dutro scandal from 2255 02:01:42.800 --> 02:01:46.279 Julia's show. Great work, Julia. Just want to say that 2256 02:01:46.399 --> 02:01:50.119 comment means the world to me because I worked tirelessly 2257 02:01:50.279 --> 02:01:54.199 on that presentation for Program to Kill. I spent months 2258 02:01:54.760 --> 02:01:59.119 putting that presentation together. So thank you Todd and this 2259 02:01:59.159 --> 02:02:02.079 stuff we're talking about today is no different. I mean, 2260 02:02:02.560 --> 02:02:07.079 all of this this stuff, this the references he's making 2261 02:02:07.119 --> 02:02:11.079 in this book, referencing real life stuff. They loved. It's 2262 02:02:11.199 --> 02:02:12.920 like a sick joke to these people. 2263 02:02:13.039 --> 02:02:18.119 They think that it really is. Yeah, they think it's funny. 2264 02:02:18.119 --> 02:02:20.960 You'll laugh about it, right, Yeah, they think covered I 2265 02:02:21.000 --> 02:02:23.520 covered all this in Dragnet. I didn't know. I'm sorry, 2266 02:02:23.560 --> 02:02:24.520 go ahead, Julia. 2267 02:02:24.760 --> 02:02:27.039 No, I was just gonna say. They think it's absolutely 2268 02:02:27.079 --> 02:02:30.920 hysterical that we just watch movies and read books and 2269 02:02:31.680 --> 02:02:34.159 you know, it's right in front of our face and 2270 02:02:34.199 --> 02:02:37.159 we'll just never know, especially what John was talking about 2271 02:02:37.199 --> 02:02:40.159 earlier with that guy's last name, Like, who else is 2272 02:02:40.239 --> 02:02:41.279 going to put that together? 2273 02:02:42.119 --> 02:02:45.279 Yes, Pacaula. Yeah, so I totally agree with you. I 2274 02:02:45.319 --> 02:02:48.479 totally agree with you. So the I did a Nicolet 2275 02:02:48.680 --> 02:02:50.920 esoteric review a number of weeks back on Dragnet. So 2276 02:02:50.960 --> 02:02:53.600 folks to the interwebs or John or jolly of you 2277 02:02:53.640 --> 02:02:57.000 folks want to check it out. 2278 02:02:58.760 --> 02:03:07.880 Uh oh, j Keith Frousin, Yeah, he'll probably be back 2279 02:03:07.880 --> 02:03:08.439 in a second. 2280 02:03:08.640 --> 02:03:08.960 Yep. 2281 02:03:10.640 --> 02:03:13.640 In my back, my back, my back, Yeah, you're back. 2282 02:03:14.199 --> 02:03:17.119 It's a nineteen eighty seven cinematic masterpiece Dragnet a cult 2283 02:03:17.159 --> 02:03:19.800 and esoteric review where we go over the elements of 2284 02:03:19.840 --> 02:03:22.800 the process being told there, and I'll just use to 2285 02:03:23.359 --> 02:03:25.760 emphasize my point, I'll bring up one one character from 2286 02:03:25.800 --> 02:03:28.800 the film and show you the murder of Roy Raidin. Right, 2287 02:03:28.880 --> 02:03:31.800 So back to back to my favorite character here at 2288 02:03:31.840 --> 02:03:37.239 Operation GCD Cocaine, Bob Boy. He was the unindicted co 2289 02:03:37.319 --> 02:03:40.600 conspirator in the murder of Roy Raiden, so the one 2290 02:03:40.640 --> 02:03:43.800 of the coat the convicted murders. And that the hitman 2291 02:03:43.880 --> 02:03:47.640 that that he allegedly hired was a fellow by named 2292 02:03:47.640 --> 02:03:50.039 William Menzer, the guy that as John will tell you what, 2293 02:03:50.119 --> 02:03:52.359 Who's William Menser? John? He got me out with that. 2294 02:03:53.439 --> 02:03:55.840 He had a long he had on a cult background. 2295 02:03:55.840 --> 02:03:58.800 He apparently was pretty serious about his occultism. 2296 02:03:58.920 --> 02:03:59.319 He was. 2297 02:04:01.359 --> 02:04:04.439 He's been alleged to have been involved with Son of Sam, 2298 02:04:04.479 --> 02:04:06.920 particularly the Christine Freud murder. He was supposed to have 2299 02:04:06.920 --> 02:04:08.880 been on the scene there, if not the actual shooter. 2300 02:04:10.920 --> 02:04:13.119 And he's well, he has a he's another one of 2301 02:04:13.119 --> 02:04:15.279 these people. He's a movie into himself. 2302 02:04:16.359 --> 02:04:17.359 That you ain't kidding. 2303 02:04:17.680 --> 02:04:20.960 Yeah, I'm pretty sure he was mentioned in Program to 2304 02:04:21.039 --> 02:04:27.439 Kill as being like they linked him somehow to being 2305 02:04:27.479 --> 02:04:32.000 an offshoot of like after the Manson family murders went down, 2306 02:04:32.520 --> 02:04:37.800 there was the Common Club, Yeah, and then this guy yeah, 2307 02:04:37.920 --> 02:04:41.560 uh huh, all process offshoot kind of weirdos. 2308 02:04:41.720 --> 02:04:43.960 So one of the other things he was notorious for 2309 02:04:44.159 --> 02:04:46.840 was being the security guard and chauffeur of Larry Flant. 2310 02:04:47.840 --> 02:04:50.880 And in the nineteen eighty seven cinematic Masterpiece were introduced 2311 02:04:50.880 --> 02:04:55.000 to Jacko Hallahan's character Ian ol muzz He is the 2312 02:04:55.079 --> 02:04:58.760 security guard and driver of the pornographer in the film, 2313 02:04:58.760 --> 02:05:01.399 which is in part a machination of what I would 2314 02:05:01.479 --> 02:05:04.960 argue is Larry Flint and and uh Hugh Hefner. But 2315 02:05:05.560 --> 02:05:09.159 he he's also a major figure in the cult that 2316 02:05:09.239 --> 02:05:12.239 is siege that has taken a siege of Los Angeles 2317 02:05:12.560 --> 02:05:17.520 and co opted politicians, attorneys, police, police folks, including the commissioner, right, 2318 02:05:17.640 --> 02:05:20.039 and it's all run by a guy who's doing this. 2319 02:05:20.720 --> 02:05:23.439 He's the head of the Christian organization in town fighting 2320 02:05:23.439 --> 02:05:25.920 all this. He's the head of the Satanist organization, the 2321 02:05:25.960 --> 02:05:28.159 pagan cult that has sieged it. And he's part of 2322 02:05:28.159 --> 02:05:31.279 that cult. And Bill Mentzer just happened to be the 2323 02:05:31.359 --> 02:05:36.600 driver and chauffeur of Larry Flint and Bill Metzer just 2324 02:05:36.680 --> 02:05:41.000 happens to look identical to Emmaus. So you you tell 2325 02:05:41.039 --> 02:05:42.800 me if they're if they're telling us a tale that one, 2326 02:05:42.880 --> 02:05:43.479 you know what I mean. 2327 02:05:45.479 --> 02:05:48.680 Like somebody who wrote the stuff knew exactly what was happening, 2328 02:05:48.680 --> 02:05:50.119 and they knew who the players were. 2329 02:05:51.840 --> 02:05:54.880 Defin to speak. You see what I'm saying, how much 2330 02:05:55.039 --> 02:05:56.560 you no, I agree to but you see how much 2331 02:05:56.560 --> 02:05:59.640 these dudes look. I mean, they played the same role, right. 2332 02:06:00.039 --> 02:06:03.439 I'm on, and they're playing like the same he's playing 2333 02:06:03.520 --> 02:06:05.399 the real guy, you know what I mean? 2334 02:06:05.960 --> 02:06:08.279 And oh, haller hand don't look anything like like they had. 2335 02:06:08.439 --> 02:06:10.000 This is all made up with the hair and the 2336 02:06:10.119 --> 02:06:13.520 mustache they gave to him there. So and it's interesting 2337 02:06:13.600 --> 02:06:15.039 because this is what I like the joke when you 2338 02:06:15.199 --> 02:06:16.880 this is what reminded me of this. You all were 2339 02:06:16.880 --> 02:06:19.920 talking about the bragging. So Bob Cocaine Evans went and 2340 02:06:19.920 --> 02:06:22.880 saw the film Wag the Dog right with Dustin Hoffman. 2341 02:06:23.560 --> 02:06:25.760 And when he this is nineteen ninety seven, he walks 2342 02:06:25.760 --> 02:06:28.319 out of the film and the uh, he's asked by 2343 02:06:28.359 --> 02:06:31.119 you know, the premiere He's asked by the paparazzi, you know, 2344 02:06:31.399 --> 02:06:34.119 what do you think of the film, and in Old Cocaine, 2345 02:06:34.159 --> 02:06:37.039 Bob Fantoausy replies, I thought I looked great on the 2346 02:06:37.039 --> 02:06:40.399 big screen because Dustin Hoffman is playing a Hollywood producer 2347 02:06:40.479 --> 02:06:44.960 who's doing a Bob Cocaine Evans character, right, yeah, and 2348 02:06:45.279 --> 02:06:47.479 they're all every yeah, everything, And I would I would 2349 02:06:47.560 --> 02:06:50.000 argue that they're that whole film is a satirical take 2350 02:06:50.399 --> 02:06:54.199 of them bragging and laughing on these fella's relationship because 2351 02:06:54.359 --> 02:06:57.039 d Niro. D Niro was a man who Evans made 2352 02:06:57.079 --> 02:07:00.960 his career, he made Hoffman's career, and and Danira plays 2353 02:07:00.960 --> 02:07:03.319 a you know, not necessarily a national security council. 2354 02:07:10.319 --> 02:07:15.119 In my froze my back, my back, So I didn't 2355 02:07:15.159 --> 02:07:17.439 know if it was me or you. Yeah, you're you're back. 2356 02:07:18.000 --> 02:07:21.600 Yeah. So Evans makes both de Niro in Hoffman's careers. 2357 02:07:22.079 --> 02:07:24.159 Hoffmann's playing a saturial take on I just think that 2358 02:07:24.239 --> 02:07:25.960 de Niro is doing the kind of a cterial take 2359 02:07:26.000 --> 02:07:29.119 on Henry Kissinger there. But nonetheless he walks out of 2360 02:07:29.159 --> 02:07:31.000 the theater and says, I thought it looked great. So 2361 02:07:31.560 --> 02:07:33.800 when this film came out in nineteen eighty seven, I 2362 02:07:33.840 --> 02:07:36.680 often wonder if this fellow, who was not arrested until 2363 02:07:36.720 --> 02:07:39.119 August of eighty eight, walked out of that same film 2364 02:07:39.119 --> 02:07:40.800 and said, I thought I looked great on the big screen. 2365 02:07:41.680 --> 02:07:43.760 I bet he did, you know, because they said too 2366 02:07:43.800 --> 02:07:46.119 when he was when he was arrested, they found a 2367 02:07:46.159 --> 02:07:50.199 copy of Maury's book and it had his parts underlining 2368 02:07:50.239 --> 02:07:53.119 the book. And he told somebody that they in this 2369 02:07:53.159 --> 02:07:55.479 book they described what I did as a perfect crime, 2370 02:07:55.520 --> 02:07:59.520 which wasn't actually true. But he he had that conscious 2371 02:07:59.600 --> 02:08:01.880 vanity about himself that when he knew he was being 2372 02:08:02.439 --> 02:08:05.119 written about or depicted in the movie, he was. He 2373 02:08:05.199 --> 02:08:07.399 knew about it, you know, he was. He was happy 2374 02:08:07.439 --> 02:08:07.840 about it. 2375 02:08:10.239 --> 02:08:16.119 Somebody had seen something in the commons here, Hang on, is. 2376 02:08:16.119 --> 02:08:18.000 It Kane b He was friends with the box. 2377 02:08:18.119 --> 02:08:21.880 Fast Eddy the one before that. He's somebody's talking about 2378 02:08:21.920 --> 02:08:25.039 a movie that rolls of Dan Aykroyd. 2379 02:08:25.840 --> 02:08:28.000 But fast Eddie was the mina somma bitch I've ever 2380 02:08:28.039 --> 02:08:29.680 met in my life. I think Kane's actually telling you 2381 02:08:29.680 --> 02:08:31.640 now an actual story here. He used to work for 2382 02:08:31.720 --> 02:08:34.239 a tourist trap restaurant in the eighties. Oh so, because 2383 02:08:34.319 --> 02:08:35.880 Kane used to live in San Diego in the eighties. 2384 02:08:35.920 --> 02:08:38.960 That's interesting, Kane. So he was friends with Bill, your 2385 02:08:39.079 --> 02:08:41.880 old boss was friends with Bill Metzer. Huh, that's we 2386 02:08:41.960 --> 02:08:43.840 got to talk about that for a fellow like I 2387 02:08:43.880 --> 02:08:45.640 would like to hear some more of those tales that's 2388 02:08:45.640 --> 02:08:47.680 gonna be, you know, I'd like just you know that 2389 02:08:47.720 --> 02:08:50.359 whole era. I feel like San Diego is whatever, Los Angeles, 2390 02:08:50.479 --> 02:08:53.279 whatever Cole takesot he was popping off in Los Angeles. 2391 02:08:53.439 --> 02:08:55.279 It sounds like Kane had been seeing some of that 2392 02:08:55.279 --> 02:09:00.880 ship in San Diego at the same time. Am I 2393 02:09:01.279 --> 02:09:02.199 back my back? 2394 02:09:02.800 --> 02:09:04.960 Yeah, you're good, You're good. I was just reading the 2395 02:09:04.960 --> 02:09:05.800 comments over here. 2396 02:09:05.880 --> 02:09:09.039 It looks like I don't know. Oh, go ahead. 2397 02:09:09.520 --> 02:09:12.000 I was just gonna say, look like headless is in 2398 02:09:12.119 --> 02:09:15.319 the comments. People are on fire tonight. We got all 2399 02:09:15.439 --> 02:09:17.479 kinds of stuff coming through. This is awesome. 2400 02:09:18.119 --> 02:09:20.079 It's good stuff. I appreciate the folks with your webs 2401 02:09:20.119 --> 02:09:23.000 and joined the show and commenting here on the on 2402 02:09:23.079 --> 02:09:26.039 the chat, so where did we leave off before I 2403 02:09:26.039 --> 02:09:28.720 went on a cocaine bob excursion. 2404 02:09:29.479 --> 02:09:37.600 We were talking about how she basically they kill her. No, 2405 02:09:39.039 --> 02:09:40.319 was that what we were talking about. 2406 02:09:40.840 --> 02:09:43.199 Yeah, we were saying how it was similar. They were 2407 02:09:43.199 --> 02:09:45.479 bragging about these stories, right, But no, they killed the 2408 02:09:45.520 --> 02:09:48.319 woman on accident. And then the next thing we see, right, 2409 02:09:48.479 --> 02:09:52.319 is one of the character's sons falling out of a building, 2410 02:09:52.600 --> 02:09:55.520 showing us as dick. 2411 02:09:55.600 --> 02:09:58.359 And you don't realize at first that she's get you. 2412 02:09:58.720 --> 02:10:01.600 The woman he's with is is the one that the 2413 02:10:01.680 --> 02:10:03.159 central figure. 2414 02:10:03.319 --> 02:10:04.520 Right. 2415 02:10:05.199 --> 02:10:06.960 That's a good point too. I thought you meant you 2416 02:10:06.960 --> 02:10:08.439 don't realize at first they're going to show you his 2417 02:10:08.439 --> 02:10:09.760 dick because I didn't realize that. 2418 02:10:12.159 --> 02:10:15.560 They show you plenty of of tit action too. And 2419 02:10:15.720 --> 02:10:18.439 but from this ship, I had. 2420 02:10:18.319 --> 02:10:20.960 No idea Dan Ackroyd bought Mama Cass's house, Get the 2421 02:10:20.960 --> 02:10:24.880 fuck out of here. That's awesome stuff. Come on, because 2422 02:10:24.920 --> 02:10:27.720 he already he's already he's already questionable enough starring opposite 2423 02:10:27.760 --> 02:10:31.520 Tuesday Well, the nineteen ninety five film starring Keanu Reeves 2424 02:10:31.560 --> 02:10:34.000 and Courtney Love Feeling Minnesota. 2425 02:10:35.119 --> 02:10:37.880 Yeah, and that Dan he has a serious interest, like 2426 02:10:37.960 --> 02:10:40.960 in ghosts and UFOs and just the paranormal. 2427 02:10:42.439 --> 02:10:45.479 Well, absolutely, John, and I cover that. You'll you'll enjoy 2428 02:10:45.520 --> 02:10:48.600 this comparison. I cover that in that Dragonet film that 2429 02:10:48.720 --> 02:10:51.439 he you know, went into some of the Ghostbusters activities. 2430 02:10:51.439 --> 02:10:54.760 I think he has raised a cult bookstore was based 2431 02:10:54.840 --> 02:10:55.880 upon the Magical Child. 2432 02:10:56.840 --> 02:10:58.880 I wouldn't doubt it. I wouldn't doubt it. 2433 02:10:59.600 --> 02:11:04.079 And Mama Cass's house makes sense to me. 2434 02:11:04.800 --> 02:11:07.119 Hey, look, if you start opposite, they will makes sense 2435 02:11:07.159 --> 02:11:07.359 to me. 2436 02:11:08.159 --> 02:11:13.600 That's like Jared leto buy and lookout Mountain Laboratory. Yeah, 2437 02:11:13.640 --> 02:11:16.279 and he's doing some kind of cult activity. 2438 02:11:15.960 --> 02:11:19.279 That was originally Natalie Woods house. Holy Masicious, that's some 2439 02:11:19.319 --> 02:11:21.119 great stuff you got that. I didn't know that either, 2440 02:11:22.079 --> 02:11:26.640 Holy Ship. Who is this? It's Masicious. That's not Ship, 2441 02:11:26.640 --> 02:11:27.840 it's only Masicious. 2442 02:11:29.399 --> 02:11:33.920 She has a lot of good information. I know her. 2443 02:11:32.239 --> 02:11:34.560 She's research. 2444 02:11:35.279 --> 02:11:37.840 Yeah, thank you man. That's a that's some awesome stuff. 2445 02:11:38.680 --> 02:11:41.159 Yeah, some awesome stuff. 2446 02:11:42.920 --> 02:11:44.600 I don't know. Nicholas Roorck, who's that? 2447 02:11:46.199 --> 02:11:46.359 Oh? 2448 02:11:46.439 --> 02:11:50.199 The Russian painter? Who's that sort of mystical? 2449 02:11:51.800 --> 02:12:00.399 Is it a weirdo child diddler cannibals. 2450 02:11:57.319 --> 02:12:00.600 Just sort of known as a painter of like mystical 2451 02:12:00.720 --> 02:12:04.600 and occult subjects. Thank you made glad you're listening tonight. 2452 02:12:05.560 --> 02:12:08.159 May I need to get you on my show? What 2453 02:12:08.199 --> 02:12:14.119 the fuck? Geez? People in the comments are going John, 2454 02:12:14.199 --> 02:12:17.600 you brought the best audience tonight. Holy crap. 2455 02:12:18.279 --> 02:12:20.840 That's not that is that is that May? May May 2456 02:12:20.920 --> 02:12:22.760 Zech Do I know this Maze? Is this one of 2457 02:12:22.840 --> 02:12:24.399 your followers? 2458 02:12:24.399 --> 02:12:27.439 Well, we're just fellow researchers. 2459 02:12:26.720 --> 02:12:29.479 And nice because it sounds like I need to I 2460 02:12:29.520 --> 02:12:30.279 need to know this person. 2461 02:12:30.760 --> 02:12:32.880 Yeah, it's both interested in the same kinds of things. 2462 02:12:32.920 --> 02:12:34.479 And I'm so glad. 2463 02:12:34.359 --> 02:12:36.399 I didn't know dan Aykroyd bout that fucking house. That's 2464 02:12:36.520 --> 02:12:38.640 I mean, I look a lot of these details. 2465 02:12:38.840 --> 02:12:41.239 I didn't either. But it's so great that people are 2466 02:12:41.239 --> 02:12:44.239 talking about this stuff because it really is. It's not. 2467 02:12:44.960 --> 02:12:47.159 This aspect of it has not discussed a whole lot, 2468 02:12:47.199 --> 02:12:49.520 I don't think, or maybe it is privately, but I've 2469 02:12:49.560 --> 02:12:51.600 just never been able to engage a whole lot of 2470 02:12:51.640 --> 02:12:55.520 people in the Son of Sam community in this hype. 2471 02:12:55.560 --> 02:12:57.800 To see the interest John, I'll hope to see the interests. 2472 02:12:58.279 --> 02:13:01.399 I'm gonna have to put my email and if you could, 2473 02:13:01.119 --> 02:13:04.119 I email JJ at the end of the show so 2474 02:13:04.439 --> 02:13:06.760 people can reach send me an email, reach out and 2475 02:13:07.079 --> 02:13:10.720 I want to get May on my show only trade 2476 02:13:10.800 --> 02:13:14.479 throwing out some crazy info like that. I need to 2477 02:13:14.560 --> 02:13:15.039 know more. 2478 02:13:15.159 --> 02:13:17.279 It's a real barn burner here, Julie. It's a real barn. 2479 02:13:17.159 --> 02:13:21.199 Burner burning down the barn. Holy shit. 2480 02:13:22.199 --> 02:13:25.479 So after we see the unsolicited dick pic of one 2481 02:13:25.479 --> 02:13:28.000 of the main characters sons that jumps out of the 2482 02:13:28.039 --> 02:13:30.279 building because he sees the ghost, right, the ghost comes 2483 02:13:30.319 --> 02:13:32.359 on him. What's that about? Why is the ghost hunting 2484 02:13:32.399 --> 02:13:32.960 the man's son. 2485 02:13:34.439 --> 02:13:37.039 Well, he's one of the two sons of Ned, the 2486 02:13:37.399 --> 02:13:41.399 mayor and the the guy that Eve I actually liked 2487 02:13:41.439 --> 02:13:44.520 in nineteen twenty nine or whatever it was. He's one 2488 02:13:44.560 --> 02:13:45.399 of the two sons. 2489 02:13:45.600 --> 02:13:53.159 He's Do you take it as being liked and Ricky? 2490 02:13:53.239 --> 02:13:55.319 Right? Ned and Ricky right? Because the next thing we 2491 02:13:55.359 --> 02:13:58.119 see is the father chasing after Ricky. He goes to 2492 02:13:58.119 --> 02:14:00.560 see his dad for the funeral of his brother and 2493 02:14:00.640 --> 02:14:03.840 tells his dad, Hey, I was sleeping with that lady too, right, Yeah, 2494 02:14:03.960 --> 02:14:04.560 he tells his dad. 2495 02:14:05.159 --> 02:14:09.600 Yeah, but do you take that out right lamb kind 2496 02:14:09.640 --> 02:14:12.720 of thing? Like the firstborn son, like, I'll get you 2497 02:14:12.800 --> 02:14:14.680 and your firstborn son kind of thing. 2498 02:14:14.880 --> 02:14:17.199 That's what I was thinking, kind of right, a little curse. Yeah, 2499 02:14:17.399 --> 02:14:18.880 well curse. 2500 02:14:19.560 --> 02:14:22.279 I'm not sure how they actually were thinking about it 2501 02:14:22.359 --> 02:14:26.960 in in the film and in the book, Alma Till's 2502 02:14:27.960 --> 02:14:31.239 done really specifically that you know, when we get married. 2503 02:14:31.279 --> 02:14:32.960 I want to go back and get married in the 2504 02:14:33.039 --> 02:14:35.720 town where you grew up. And I want all your 2505 02:14:36.439 --> 02:14:38.760 father and all of his friends and everybody in the 2506 02:14:38.760 --> 02:14:40.600 town to be there, and I want them to see me. 2507 02:14:42.960 --> 02:14:45.039 And then the next phrase she says is the phrase 2508 02:14:45.079 --> 02:14:46.840 she repeats at the end, right, that she's gonna make 2509 02:14:46.880 --> 02:14:49.039 them all kind of like she's gonna make them all pay, 2510 02:14:49.119 --> 02:14:51.039 They're all gonna feel or something like that. 2511 02:14:51.039 --> 02:14:54.920 That's exactly it. Yeah, it's revenge for what they did 2512 02:14:54.920 --> 02:14:59.239 to her, albeit accidentally. Now it's funny because in the 2513 02:14:59.279 --> 02:15:03.079 movie they it sort of inadvertently, I think turns the 2514 02:15:03.960 --> 02:15:07.000 men and the chatter society into the villains because they 2515 02:15:07.039 --> 02:15:10.279 just kill this woman who has no she's just a 2516 02:15:10.319 --> 02:15:15.640 normal human being. You know. In the book, there's already 2517 02:15:15.720 --> 02:15:18.399 something wrong with Eva, and she already is this sort 2518 02:15:18.399 --> 02:15:23.439 of inhuman other worldly figures, so that they they think 2519 02:15:23.479 --> 02:15:27.760 that they have killed a human woman, but what they 2520 02:15:27.760 --> 02:15:32.600 have actually done is just anger, a an other worldly 2521 02:15:32.680 --> 02:15:36.039 sort of spirit being that that just keeps coming back 2522 02:15:36.079 --> 02:15:38.880 at them over and over at various points throughout their history. 2523 02:15:39.439 --> 02:15:41.640 But she's even at the point where they kill her. 2524 02:15:41.640 --> 02:15:45.079 In the novel, the first time as Eva, she already 2525 02:15:45.159 --> 02:15:48.640 is not a human. She's something else just occupying a 2526 02:15:48.720 --> 02:15:55.479 human body, possessed. She's a manitude. She's an Indian spirit, 2527 02:15:55.600 --> 02:16:01.359 one of these shape shifting changeling things. Yeah, becomes people 2528 02:16:01.479 --> 02:16:04.600 or animals or whatever, but it's always in the disguise 2529 02:16:04.680 --> 02:16:07.479 of a physical creature. But it's not. It's not actually 2530 02:16:07.880 --> 02:16:10.079 a physical person or an animal at all. 2531 02:16:10.159 --> 02:16:12.159 Right, She's like a siren. 2532 02:16:12.399 --> 02:16:16.720 She's like a yeah, a figure, yeah. 2533 02:16:16.479 --> 02:16:18.880 Yeah, and can lure you in with like her good 2534 02:16:18.920 --> 02:16:23.079 looks and stuff. But then she turns running right, Yeah, 2535 02:16:23.199 --> 02:16:26.279 but think of it like JJ like in The Shining, 2536 02:16:26.640 --> 02:16:28.640 you know, when it's like a beautiful woman in the 2537 02:16:28.680 --> 02:16:30.920 bathtub and then he goes to kiss her and she 2538 02:16:31.000 --> 02:16:34.479 turns into like some weird hag which thing that's like 2539 02:16:35.040 --> 02:16:38.079 laughing and cackling, Like that's Eva, Like she's like some 2540 02:16:38.159 --> 02:16:39.239 kind of weird siren. 2541 02:16:40.040 --> 02:16:42.399 Which we see that a lot. Though that same sequence 2542 02:16:42.399 --> 02:16:44.120 you just describe from The Shining, we see that same 2543 02:16:44.159 --> 02:16:46.120 sequence play over here in this film as well, with 2544 02:16:46.200 --> 02:16:49.319 this this witchy character, right, this this Eva Alma character. 2545 02:16:49.440 --> 02:16:52.000 But it is it's that's the call of the siren, 2546 02:16:52.159 --> 02:16:54.040 is what she's doing when I think when she says, 2547 02:16:54.360 --> 02:16:56.319 I will take you places you've never been, I will 2548 02:16:56.319 --> 02:16:58.559 show you things that you've never seen, and I will 2549 02:16:58.559 --> 02:17:00.559 see the life run out of you. He repeats that 2550 02:17:00.639 --> 02:17:02.680 numerous times in the film. 2551 02:17:02.920 --> 02:17:06.399 It's like a chance. It's like the priestess thing, you know, 2552 02:17:06.479 --> 02:17:07.360 it's like a spell. 2553 02:17:07.879 --> 02:17:08.079 Yeah. 2554 02:17:08.319 --> 02:17:10.840 Yeah, but she's learning these men in with, especially Ricky. 2555 02:17:10.840 --> 02:17:13.120 She lowers Ricky in with that statement, right, m. 2556 02:17:14.520 --> 02:17:22.520 Yeah, that's right. And the our real life priestess, that 2557 02:17:22.680 --> 02:17:26.680 is the the image she consciously affected. She she was 2558 02:17:26.799 --> 02:17:31.360 like that so Conway, right, Yeah, that was very much 2559 02:17:31.440 --> 02:17:32.840 her her persona. 2560 02:17:33.520 --> 02:17:35.959 You know, yeah, that's I mean, you bring up some 2561 02:17:36.000 --> 02:17:39.040 good points there. So then we see we see Ricky 2562 02:17:39.719 --> 02:17:42.760 and is it Ricky Senior? Right, he falls off the bridge. 2563 02:17:42.760 --> 02:17:43.920 They're chasing Ricky Jr. 2564 02:17:44.000 --> 02:17:47.360 Right, Well yeah, but but yeah, yeah, I'm sorry, off 2565 02:17:47.399 --> 02:17:51.399 the bridge and he sees uh Almah's or Eva's figure. 2566 02:17:51.440 --> 02:17:53.959 They're approaching him just as he's about to jump off. Yeah. 2567 02:17:54.319 --> 02:17:57.440 Yeah. And then and then and after that is when 2568 02:17:57.440 --> 02:18:00.000 we start getting into the bending of reality, right, because 2569 02:18:00.120 --> 02:18:04.319 when they go when fred Astaire goes to the house, right, well, 2570 02:18:04.600 --> 02:18:06.000 that's is that the next scene, right, is that the 2571 02:18:06.000 --> 02:18:06.399 next part. 2572 02:18:07.840 --> 02:18:10.920 It's it's somewhere early in there. I forget exactly when 2573 02:18:10.959 --> 02:18:14.239 he goes to it. Uh. Now incredibly too that that 2574 02:18:14.319 --> 02:18:16.959 whole house is a matte painting. It's not even a 2575 02:18:16.959 --> 02:18:21.799 real hat. That's it's an amazing painting there. But that's Uh. 2576 02:18:21.879 --> 02:18:23.319 I wish I could remember the name of the guy 2577 02:18:23.360 --> 02:18:25.239 that did those paintings for the for the fun. 2578 02:18:26.319 --> 02:18:28.360 Yeah, I'll look that up here in a second. So 2579 02:18:28.920 --> 02:18:31.840 we are just looking at the Oh, that's right, so 2580 02:18:32.440 --> 02:18:36.479 downing his father committed suicide. Don then the remaining three 2581 02:18:36.520 --> 02:18:38.760 friends and tells them a ghost story, right, approaches the 2582 02:18:38.840 --> 02:18:41.159 remaining three friends. So then that's when the son is 2583 02:18:41.200 --> 02:18:42.479 trying to get into the club, right. 2584 02:18:42.959 --> 02:18:45.639 Right right, and he uh. They talk to each other 2585 02:18:45.639 --> 02:18:48.959 because he's a horror author, and I think Riky or 2586 02:18:48.959 --> 02:18:52.120 somebody suggests or not it's not Ricky, Maybe it's Sears 2587 02:18:52.360 --> 02:18:57.159 who suggests. Well, Edward's son knows about all this weird stuff, 2588 02:18:57.239 --> 02:18:59.639 so maybe he could tell us something to sort of 2589 02:18:59.680 --> 02:19:02.639 calm down a little bit and and keep our imaginations 2590 02:19:02.639 --> 02:19:05.040 from running away with us. So they asked him to 2591 02:19:05.079 --> 02:19:07.680 come to town, and he uh, he attends one of 2592 02:19:07.719 --> 02:19:10.879 their meetings and Uh. Yes, Sears is really grouchy and 2593 02:19:10.920 --> 02:19:14.559 offers him a Cuban cigar. But then Don says something like, well, 2594 02:19:14.639 --> 02:19:17.280 let me tell you a story and maybe that'll be 2595 02:19:17.319 --> 02:19:20.760 the price of my admission into the chatter society, which 2596 02:19:20.799 --> 02:19:23.479 Sears really doesn't like for some reason. And he he 2597 02:19:23.559 --> 02:19:26.639 blows up at him over that comment. But Sears is 2598 02:19:26.680 --> 02:19:29.000 just kind of a cantanker's character like that in the 2599 02:19:29.000 --> 02:19:30.079 book and in film too. 2600 02:19:31.239 --> 02:19:34.319 Now you're that's spot on, that's what. And the next 2601 02:19:34.319 --> 02:19:37.079 thing we see is them and he's recounting this story, right, 2602 02:19:37.079 --> 02:19:38.959 But that's when we meet Alma, right, So that's when 2603 02:19:39.040 --> 02:19:42.000 it started blurring the boring the reality situation. 2604 02:19:42.120 --> 02:19:47.120 Right right before Alma knew his brother who dies at 2605 02:19:47.120 --> 02:19:52.239 the beginning of the movie, she knew Don, and uh, 2606 02:19:52.360 --> 02:19:56.239 she approaches him when he's teaching at some university in 2607 02:19:56.280 --> 02:20:00.440 Florida somewhere, and. 2608 02:19:59.479 --> 02:20:01.239 Let me put a in that statement because I got 2609 02:20:01.280 --> 02:20:03.159 an interesting, little weird thing that I saw on that 2610 02:20:03.200 --> 02:20:04.719 whole Florida thing. I'll bring us at the end, but 2611 02:20:04.760 --> 02:20:05.639 please continue. 2612 02:20:06.159 --> 02:20:10.600 Yeah. Well, he he falls for her, and initially they're 2613 02:20:10.600 --> 02:20:13.680 planning to get married, but she just gets weirder and weirder, 2614 02:20:13.680 --> 02:20:16.079 and he has more of these strange experiences where her 2615 02:20:16.239 --> 02:20:19.879 he he's it becomes impossible for him to ignore that 2616 02:20:20.000 --> 02:20:25.159 something's wrong with her, and eventually one day he tells 2617 02:20:25.159 --> 02:20:28.040 her that he's breaking it off, you know, and so. 2618 02:20:27.920 --> 02:20:30.879 She and this is all going on in the past. 2619 02:20:30.959 --> 02:20:33.479 He's now retelling in the present based upon his brother 2620 02:20:33.520 --> 02:20:36.479 already hooking up with this girl. Right, So it kind 2621 02:20:36.479 --> 02:20:38.520 of it's suddenly the whole. When I was watching, I 2622 02:20:38.520 --> 02:20:40.399 was like, holy shit, did this stuff this all collapsed 2623 02:20:40.399 --> 02:20:42.000 on me at once? Dude, I didn't see it coming. 2624 02:20:42.280 --> 02:20:44.920 Yeah, And that's one of those things that's very much 2625 02:20:45.040 --> 02:20:48.600 like the book is it's different narratives woven into each other, 2626 02:20:48.719 --> 02:20:52.159 different time periods, and yeah, it starts to get pretty 2627 02:20:52.159 --> 02:20:53.079 complex at that point. 2628 02:20:53.239 --> 02:20:54.920 Come it comes at you real fast, because then he 2629 02:20:54.959 --> 02:20:57.000 realized the opening sequence when he saw his brother falling 2630 02:20:57.040 --> 02:20:59.760 out the building and the dick pic the lady that 2631 02:20:59.760 --> 02:21:04.399 he's he saw was this Alma ghost. Yeah, I'm sorry's 2632 02:21:04.399 --> 02:21:07.159 sleeping with Alma, but he sees the ghost of Eva 2633 02:21:07.239 --> 02:21:09.399 in her and then falls out the window. And then 2634 02:21:09.479 --> 02:21:11.280 you find out his father is doing the same. And 2635 02:21:11.280 --> 02:21:13.399 then his brother's like, wait a second, I've been banging 2636 02:21:13.399 --> 02:21:14.520 this broad for a while. Guys. 2637 02:21:14.559 --> 02:21:17.559 So he talks to his brother, he's in a bar 2638 02:21:17.680 --> 02:21:21.760 and he says, David, don't don't marry her, something's wrong 2639 02:21:21.799 --> 02:21:28.479 with her, and yeah yeah thereafter yeah. 2640 02:21:27.280 --> 02:21:30.680 Wild ship man, wild Ship. Yeah, what was your taking 2641 02:21:30.680 --> 02:21:31.319 all that, Julia? 2642 02:21:32.239 --> 02:21:36.239 Well, I just wanted to note two things I thought 2643 02:21:36.280 --> 02:21:40.159 were cool from this part of the movie. The fact 2644 02:21:40.159 --> 02:21:45.399 that he knows Don knows that he has to quote 2645 02:21:45.479 --> 02:21:49.920 unquote like blood his way into the cult. Right, He's 2646 02:21:49.920 --> 02:21:54.319 gotta pay his dues, He's gotta tell this story to 2647 02:21:54.360 --> 02:21:56.239 get into the secret society. 2648 02:21:56.319 --> 02:21:59.920 Right when he says the series, he's like John how 2649 02:22:00.159 --> 02:22:01.479 He's like, hey, I want to get in, and there's 2650 02:22:01.760 --> 02:22:03.799 John States kind offended, and then he offers up his 2651 02:22:03.879 --> 02:22:05.760 blood sacrifice, right. 2652 02:22:05.719 --> 02:22:08.799 Right, Yeah, So I felt like that was symbolic. And 2653 02:22:08.840 --> 02:22:13.360 then when it shows him at the university talking to 2654 02:22:13.559 --> 02:22:17.799 his class full of students, the only thing he's really 2655 02:22:17.840 --> 02:22:23.760 talking about is being seduced and someone seducing or him 2656 02:22:23.840 --> 02:22:27.079 seducing someone else, or he's talking about like a short story, 2657 02:22:27.120 --> 02:22:30.760 but it's all about seduction, and like the weird siren thing, 2658 02:22:31.159 --> 02:22:31.399 you know. 2659 02:22:32.159 --> 02:22:32.959 Yeah, so. 2660 02:22:34.520 --> 02:22:37.399 It's it's weird, weird tiren things are I'm spinning because 2661 02:22:37.399 --> 02:22:39.200 I was You're making a great point, I want to comment, 2662 02:22:39.239 --> 02:22:41.200 and I was also trying to actually it thumbs up 2663 02:22:41.239 --> 02:22:43.399 and talk at the same time. Apparently I can't do 2664 02:22:43.479 --> 02:22:45.799 all at once without spinning on myself. So that's a 2665 02:22:45.799 --> 02:22:46.319 great point you. 2666 02:22:47.840 --> 02:22:50.079 But yeah, no, those were two things that I took 2667 02:22:50.120 --> 02:22:52.520 out of it. Also just a funny part from the 2668 02:22:52.559 --> 02:22:55.959 beginning of the movie when the dad goes to pick 2669 02:22:56.040 --> 02:22:59.559 up the sun from the train station. He's like, look 2670 02:22:59.559 --> 02:23:03.280 at you. You looked horrible. And he's wearing like a 2671 02:23:03.360 --> 02:23:07.280 sweater vest in like a button Like if you saw 2672 02:23:07.360 --> 02:23:10.159 somebody wearing that outfit, you'd be like, oh, he looks nice. 2673 02:23:10.200 --> 02:23:13.040 Where's he going? And the Dad's like, you look like shit. 2674 02:23:13.520 --> 02:23:17.200 He wasn't dressed right. He was dressing you know, really, 2675 02:23:17.559 --> 02:23:19.879 you know, put together as far as style and whatnot goes. 2676 02:23:19.920 --> 02:23:22.440 You wasn't doing flannel and headbands what I'm saying, you know. 2677 02:23:22.559 --> 02:23:25.760 And again it kind of that was an interesting scene 2678 02:23:25.799 --> 02:23:28.079 to me because it's like he didn't want to the 2679 02:23:28.079 --> 02:23:30.000 son didn't want to go back there. He already knew that, 2680 02:23:30.239 --> 02:23:32.000 he already knew the dynamic that they didn't know that 2681 02:23:32.040 --> 02:23:33.719 he was banging his lady already. He didn't want to 2682 02:23:33.879 --> 02:23:36.520 do that. His brother dies, there was a lot going 2683 02:23:36.520 --> 02:23:38.520 on there, and then he gets there, his father's giving 2684 02:23:38.600 --> 02:23:39.520 him heat, you know what I mean? 2685 02:23:39.680 --> 02:23:43.959 So well I did that. It was another testament as 2686 02:23:44.000 --> 02:23:47.200 to the elitism of the family, because. 2687 02:23:47.000 --> 02:23:48.760 That's what I'm saying, Like he's getting heat from his 2688 02:23:48.840 --> 02:23:49.799 dad no matter what he does. 2689 02:23:50.840 --> 02:23:55.000 Sweater vest looks like ship to the dad, Like what's 2690 02:23:55.079 --> 02:23:59.040 the dad on? You know? So it's like another testament 2691 02:23:59.159 --> 02:24:05.680 as to these high elite Secret Society members and their kids, right, 2692 02:24:05.920 --> 02:24:11.159 dying mysteriously accidentally killing people in their past and covering 2693 02:24:11.200 --> 02:24:11.719 it up. 2694 02:24:11.680 --> 02:24:17.159 Like total accident. Yeah, while we're on the topic, and 2695 02:24:17.200 --> 02:24:18.719 you bring us some great points. While we're on the topic, 2696 02:24:18.760 --> 02:24:20.760 was there anything important about the scenes that we see 2697 02:24:20.760 --> 02:24:21.799 that are the actual scenes? 2698 02:24:21.920 --> 02:24:22.079 Right? 2699 02:24:22.120 --> 02:24:24.799 And like not the obviously you've made all those correlations 2700 02:24:24.840 --> 02:24:27.079 between Yonkers and the fictional town of Melbourne with the 2701 02:24:27.159 --> 02:24:30.360 namesakes of roads and whatnot and people's But we see 2702 02:24:30.440 --> 02:24:33.239 a couple interesting places like Saratoga Springs is one of 2703 02:24:33.280 --> 02:24:37.280 the filming locations, right, What's doctor Mont's another one. I 2704 02:24:37.319 --> 02:24:39.159 believe this was the down I believe this is the 2705 02:24:39.239 --> 02:24:40.200 downtown setting. 2706 02:24:41.280 --> 02:24:45.280 Yeah, I believe that's right. Yeah, I'm not sure if 2707 02:24:45.280 --> 02:24:48.280 there was any particular reason that they chose those locations. 2708 02:24:48.360 --> 02:24:52.840 But for the town square, it it looks and sounds 2709 02:24:52.879 --> 02:24:54.799 a lot like the wheat Row of the book, the 2710 02:24:55.079 --> 02:24:58.399 town Square of Melbourne in the novel. So that's uh, 2711 02:24:58.520 --> 02:25:02.680 that's it's very close and tone what what Straw described 2712 02:25:02.680 --> 02:25:03.239 in the novel. 2713 02:25:03.879 --> 02:25:05.639 How about during the Son of sam Era, was there 2714 02:25:05.639 --> 02:25:10.520 any connections to the Kipps Bay area of Manhattan, Not to. 2715 02:25:10.440 --> 02:25:15.040 My knowledge, although a lot of those members did sometimes 2716 02:25:15.079 --> 02:25:18.559 go to hang out in the city, so it's possible 2717 02:25:18.639 --> 02:25:21.879 that that there's some that one of them had a 2718 02:25:21.879 --> 02:25:24.319 connection to to Kipps Bay. 2719 02:25:25.840 --> 02:25:28.799 Yeah, I don't as much I know about New York 2720 02:25:28.840 --> 02:25:30.559 City when I used to hang out there all the time, 2721 02:25:30.600 --> 02:25:33.000 I never I don't know anything about that region of Manhattan. 2722 02:25:33.040 --> 02:25:35.799 I was, you know, I was normally found in mcsorley's, 2723 02:25:35.799 --> 02:25:39.319 the oldest bar in Manhattan. Mcsorley's Old Ale House, a 2724 02:25:39.319 --> 02:25:41.559 bunch of old, surly Irish dudes. I highly recommend the place, 2725 02:25:42.639 --> 02:25:45.399 great spot, but I don't know much about that region. However, 2726 02:25:46.159 --> 02:25:48.000 mcsorley's is down there in that kind of Sun of 2727 02:25:48.000 --> 02:25:49.920 Sam East Village, not far from some of that East 2728 02:25:50.000 --> 02:25:51.239 Village stuff, you know what I mean, And that was 2729 02:25:51.239 --> 02:25:52.040 on the Sun of Sam. 2730 02:25:52.159 --> 02:25:57.600 That definitely was was an area that I think everybody 2731 02:25:57.840 --> 02:25:59.680 when you go there, you have at least one sort 2732 02:25:59.680 --> 02:26:02.959 of Stree experience. You walk past some place and you 2733 02:26:03.079 --> 02:26:05.600 realize that it's a place that you've read about. You 2734 02:26:05.639 --> 02:26:08.920 weren't consciously seeking it out, but there it is, and 2735 02:26:08.959 --> 02:26:11.280 you realize you're standing next to it, and it just 2736 02:26:11.600 --> 02:26:13.959 you know, because there's so many places like that in 2737 02:26:14.000 --> 02:26:17.600 New York, but mine was the place where William Burrows 2738 02:26:17.760 --> 02:26:20.639 used to live. I knew it was down there. That 2739 02:26:20.639 --> 02:26:23.280 wasn't really what I was going to see, but all 2740 02:26:23.319 --> 02:26:25.360 of a sudden, it's just right there, and you recognize 2741 02:26:25.399 --> 02:26:28.239 the gate and the number over the door and everything, 2742 02:26:28.280 --> 02:26:32.440 and of course Burrows, that's that's a whole other connection 2743 02:26:32.520 --> 02:26:36.000 to this stuff, you know, into the Magical Child and 2744 02:26:36.000 --> 02:26:37.000 and all of that scene. 2745 02:26:37.079 --> 02:26:39.000 Well, well, John Sara, you just signed yourself up for 2746 02:26:39.040 --> 02:26:41.440 another show here in Operation GCD. Because it is William 2747 02:26:41.479 --> 02:26:44.040 Burrows who institutes the smiley face as a chaos symbol 2748 02:26:44.040 --> 02:26:45.440 into the neo process. Movement. 2749 02:26:45.600 --> 02:26:50.159 Yeah, yeah, Burrows was, he was, he was something else. 2750 02:26:50.600 --> 02:26:52.760 I as always absolute your efforts and all these things, 2751 02:26:52.799 --> 02:26:55.799 I learned something new. I did not know these these 2752 02:26:55.840 --> 02:26:58.280 these Boroughs connections. I do need to learn more Burroughs stuff. 2753 02:26:58.319 --> 02:27:02.319 Clearly, it's spooky. He was involved in and he admitted, 2754 02:27:02.360 --> 02:27:07.040 you know, he said I had CIA acquaintances, which I 2755 02:27:07.040 --> 02:27:09.360 think you underplaying it a little bit. But at the 2756 02:27:09.399 --> 02:27:09.879 very least. 2757 02:27:10.000 --> 02:27:13.799 Yeah, he he a scientologist, John and a scientologists that's right. 2758 02:27:13.920 --> 02:27:17.600 That's right, very dedicated scientologist. And one we sure, and 2759 02:27:17.639 --> 02:27:20.120 that's right DeLand, Florida. And you know, may another thing 2760 02:27:20.159 --> 02:27:24.479 about DeLand is I believe that's where Burrow's son of 2761 02:27:24.680 --> 02:27:29.239 Billy Jr. He died in DeLand or somewhere just outside 2762 02:27:29.280 --> 02:27:38.120 of DeLand, strangely enough, just as we're we're talking about Burrows. Yeah, yeah, 2763 02:27:38.159 --> 02:27:40.360 but Billy or Willie Junior. 2764 02:27:40.200 --> 02:27:43.120 Yeah, guy die his number three, William number three dies 2765 02:27:43.280 --> 02:27:48.520 March third, nineteen eighty one. Survey says DeLand, Florida. 2766 02:27:50.319 --> 02:27:52.719 Yeah. He was a very good writer in his own right, 2767 02:27:52.799 --> 02:27:56.719 and I to his credit, ultimately, I believe although it 2768 02:27:56.760 --> 02:27:58.760 caused him a lot of pain in his life, he 2769 02:27:59.000 --> 02:28:01.719 was not a part of his father's circle. He was 2770 02:28:01.879 --> 02:28:05.040 very much outside that and was was frustrated and didn't 2771 02:28:05.159 --> 02:28:09.079 understand all the the weird you know that that weird 2772 02:28:10.959 --> 02:28:14.319 group of friends, and you know that his father had 2773 02:28:14.360 --> 02:28:17.000 all the strange stuff that he was involved with. He 2774 02:28:17.559 --> 02:28:19.639 I think a lot of that was was a mystery 2775 02:28:19.719 --> 02:28:22.920 to Billy. He's one of the fuorite riders. I have 2776 02:28:22.959 --> 02:28:24.920 a real soft spot for Billy because he had a 2777 02:28:25.000 --> 02:28:25.520 rough life. 2778 02:28:26.040 --> 02:28:27.760 He did diet thirty three. 2779 02:28:27.879 --> 02:28:32.120 Though, I'm not gonna y'all rather blow my brain all here, 2780 02:28:32.239 --> 02:28:34.159 and I don't want to. I don't want to. You're, 2781 02:28:34.200 --> 02:28:35.840 you know, make some great points and I don't want 2782 02:28:35.840 --> 02:28:38.840 to direct you from them. But yeah, I do have 2783 02:28:38.879 --> 02:28:40.959 to get us back on track here with the chapter Society. 2784 02:28:41.000 --> 02:28:43.639 Yeah well we'll yeah, well, we'll go ahead and ups 2785 02:28:43.680 --> 02:28:45.000 as the rest of the oh. 2786 02:28:45.000 --> 02:28:47.079 I assure you have both of you receiving emails from 2787 02:28:47.079 --> 02:28:49.120 me tonight with these various notes of things that come 2788 02:28:49.159 --> 02:28:50.520 back in the future of an invite. So I do 2789 02:28:50.600 --> 02:28:53.239 appreciate your time and for blowing my brain. Though, I 2790 02:28:53.399 --> 02:28:55.879 just like to try to keep this narrative going because 2791 02:28:55.920 --> 02:28:58.079 I you all just made so many comments that I 2792 02:28:58.159 --> 02:29:00.520 bit my tongue on. We'll just well, we'll stay we'll 2793 02:29:00.520 --> 02:29:02.440 stay the path here. We'll definitely be doing these in 2794 02:29:02.479 --> 02:29:03.799 the future though, these other things. 2795 02:29:04.159 --> 02:29:05.440 Yeah, absolutely. 2796 02:29:07.479 --> 02:29:09.840 So the next thing we see is Don there getting 2797 02:29:10.120 --> 02:29:11.000 engaged at Alma. 2798 02:29:11.079 --> 02:29:18.200 Huh, that's right. Yeah, yeah, That's probably my favorite part 2799 02:29:18.239 --> 02:29:20.200 of the movie is when he starts to realize that 2800 02:29:20.319 --> 02:29:23.399 something's wrong with her. It's it's really creepy. You know, 2801 02:29:23.639 --> 02:29:26.879 there's very little dialogue, but she's acting so weird, and 2802 02:29:26.920 --> 02:29:29.120 they keep flashing back to the looks on his face 2803 02:29:29.159 --> 02:29:31.840 and he's just it's that. I really like that part. 2804 02:29:33.159 --> 02:29:37.159 I meant David so Don to learn that he was 2805 02:29:37.239 --> 02:29:39.600 horrid to become engaged at Alma. So Don then shows 2806 02:29:39.639 --> 02:29:40.799 the three elders. 2807 02:29:40.479 --> 02:29:47.719 Right, yeah, he he shows them a photo and they say, 2808 02:29:47.760 --> 02:29:51.079 oh my god, that's that's Eva. We remember Eva. 2809 02:29:51.200 --> 02:29:54.040 So yeah, so we have three we have three old 2810 02:29:54.120 --> 02:29:56.959 muppets at this point, right, because Don's dad's dead. 2811 02:29:57.040 --> 02:29:59.040 That's right, that's right, he's the one that jumped off 2812 02:29:59.040 --> 02:29:59.600 the bridge. 2813 02:30:00.639 --> 02:30:03.920 Don's brother's dead because he was banging Alma. Right, we 2814 02:30:04.000 --> 02:30:07.159 saw his dick at the beginning of the film. Unfortunately, 2815 02:30:08.120 --> 02:30:10.280 good point. I'm just reiterating that's the folks. You go 2816 02:30:10.280 --> 02:30:13.840 watch this film, can expect the they want to watch it, 2817 02:30:13.840 --> 02:30:14.440 that's up to them. 2818 02:30:14.440 --> 02:30:18.760 At least scariest part of the. 2819 02:30:18.799 --> 02:30:21.239 Movie, Dude, I only jumped at one part, and there 2820 02:30:21.360 --> 02:30:22.959 was that part like there was another jump. Scary. 2821 02:30:26.680 --> 02:30:28.879 It's an unflattering shot for any actor. 2822 02:30:28.959 --> 02:30:35.280 I think inappropriate. 2823 02:30:36.000 --> 02:30:38.479 They didn't even like slap it around and get it 2824 02:30:38.600 --> 02:30:41.879 kind of half chubb or something like. No, it was 2825 02:30:42.120 --> 02:30:43.479 full on, baby dick. 2826 02:30:43.879 --> 02:30:46.799 It looks very awkward. Yeah, it must have been an 2827 02:30:46.799 --> 02:30:49.280 awkward day on set. 2828 02:30:49.799 --> 02:30:52.440 Well, I mean, you know, when there's a lot of 2829 02:30:52.479 --> 02:30:54.000 awkward days and a lot of sets, you know what 2830 02:30:54.000 --> 02:30:54.239 I mean. 2831 02:30:54.840 --> 02:30:57.760 His burden is bush on the first. 2832 02:31:00.680 --> 02:31:00.959 The U. 2833 02:31:01.440 --> 02:31:03.319 So the next day we lose the second, and we 2834 02:31:03.360 --> 02:31:05.239 lose our next muppet. 2835 02:31:05.600 --> 02:31:07.319 Yes, yes, that's doctor Jeffery. 2836 02:31:07.399 --> 02:31:12.520 Yeah yeah, Art Attack huh yeah. 2837 02:31:12.600 --> 02:31:14.280 Yeah. 2838 02:31:14.479 --> 02:31:16.479 So then and then after that, then the other the 2839 02:31:16.600 --> 02:31:19.639 two remaining muppets, fred Astaire and the other guy that 2840 02:31:20.360 --> 02:31:24.840 Ricky and sears right houseman and Freda's Staire right yeah. Yeah. 2841 02:31:24.879 --> 02:31:27.360 They tell they kind of bring Ricky in on the 2842 02:31:27.360 --> 02:31:28.840 scene or I'm sorry, don in on the scene at 2843 02:31:28.840 --> 02:31:30.159 that point, right. Yeah. 2844 02:31:30.200 --> 02:31:32.040 They explained to him, just just like in the book, 2845 02:31:32.079 --> 02:31:35.040 to everything that happened. They in the book, when it's 2846 02:31:35.079 --> 02:31:39.559 just the two of them left, they're sitting in Edward's house, uh, 2847 02:31:40.360 --> 02:31:44.280 and they're they're saying, you know, we're we're gonna explain 2848 02:31:44.319 --> 02:31:46.719 to you what happened and what the history of this is, 2849 02:31:46.760 --> 02:31:49.680 and we're not proud of it, but we killed this 2850 02:31:49.719 --> 02:31:50.760 woman and we didn't mean to. 2851 02:31:51.399 --> 02:31:51.680 Yep. 2852 02:31:52.239 --> 02:31:55.120 Uh So, yeah. 2853 02:31:55.159 --> 02:31:56.879 And that's when we see the scene then that they 2854 02:31:56.879 --> 02:32:00.360 flashes back to when they were dancing. Right, that's right, 2855 02:32:00.639 --> 02:32:03.879 that's right. It says after the four were uhh, that's 2856 02:32:03.920 --> 02:32:06.840 not it. After the four win Hammond became drunk. They 2857 02:32:06.920 --> 02:32:10.200 returned to the houses, the dilapidated house that we see 2858 02:32:10.239 --> 02:32:12.319 in the future. Actually we skipped over that part and 2859 02:32:12.360 --> 02:32:17.639 I apologize. So, yeah, it's town fred Istaire, mister Ricky there, right, 2860 02:32:17.680 --> 02:32:19.479 he goes over to that old mercy and right, what 2861 02:32:19.520 --> 02:32:21.639 happens there in the old scene. So I think that's 2862 02:32:21.639 --> 02:32:24.600 a very interesting dynamic that obviously plays a very important 2863 02:32:24.680 --> 02:32:26.479 role later in the film, but is interesting in this 2864 02:32:26.559 --> 02:32:28.159 kind of esoteric understanding as well. 2865 02:32:28.479 --> 02:32:34.440 Yeah, well, he sees Gregory and Finny their roles in 2866 02:32:34.479 --> 02:32:37.639 the film were a little murky. There's not any real 2867 02:32:37.719 --> 02:32:39.600 reason for them to be in the film other than 2868 02:32:39.600 --> 02:32:44.120 to just add another horrific layer to the story. But 2869 02:32:44.159 --> 02:32:49.840 they're major characters via flashback in the novel. But yeah, 2870 02:32:49.879 --> 02:32:53.559 Gregory Bait whose character name is is from Gregory Bates 2871 02:32:53.600 --> 02:32:59.920 and the influenced Aready laying Yeah, and Finny is his 2872 02:33:00.120 --> 02:33:07.000 is uh, developmentally disabled brother of the little boy. And 2873 02:33:07.479 --> 02:33:10.280 you see them here and there throughout the film whenever 2874 02:33:10.319 --> 02:33:14.639 something had happens. But their roles in the film are 2875 02:33:14.760 --> 02:33:17.680 are much diminished compared to what they do in the book. 2876 02:33:17.799 --> 02:33:20.559 But oh yeah, yeah, Well, the one thing I did 2877 02:33:20.639 --> 02:33:22.920 pick up on there was, especially after Fredis Stare gets 2878 02:33:23.000 --> 02:33:26.200 chased out of there by them, you hear Alma's voice 2879 02:33:26.200 --> 02:33:27.840 and them going to room, like she's got some sort 2880 02:33:27.879 --> 02:33:29.120 of mind control spell on them. 2881 02:33:29.159 --> 02:33:31.159 That's right, She lasts, and she says, I've got something 2882 02:33:31.200 --> 02:33:33.920 for you to do, or something to that effect. Yeah, 2883 02:33:34.040 --> 02:33:37.559 And the the police dispatch the guy on the dispatch 2884 02:33:37.600 --> 02:33:41.200 phone says tells the sheriff, well, we've got this weird 2885 02:33:41.200 --> 02:33:43.799 guy in town, Gregory Bate. He was involved in some 2886 02:33:43.920 --> 02:33:47.120 cult or something back on the West coast, and he's 2887 02:33:47.360 --> 02:33:50.319 he left, he got out of an asylum or something, 2888 02:33:50.360 --> 02:33:53.799 and he's, uh, he's here in Milbourn now, and uh, 2889 02:33:55.079 --> 02:33:58.520 there is that verbal tie to all the cult stuff 2890 02:33:58.520 --> 02:33:59.479 in the movie. 2891 02:34:00.159 --> 02:34:02.559 So two questions. One I just forgot while I was 2892 02:34:02.600 --> 02:34:05.920 asking you that, and uh, secondly I forgot the second one. 2893 02:34:06.000 --> 02:34:08.680 So I will get back to you points about bateson 2894 02:34:09.079 --> 02:34:11.000 and they were both relative debates and whatever it was. 2895 02:34:11.040 --> 02:34:12.399 It'll circle back here in a second. 2896 02:34:12.559 --> 02:34:12.799 Sure. 2897 02:34:13.079 --> 02:34:15.920 Yeah, Now, because Bates is an interesting character right within 2898 02:34:16.120 --> 02:34:19.159 within this kind of he didn't mean he's not he 2899 02:34:19.159 --> 02:34:21.000 didn't work for the Tabstad, but within this kind of 2900 02:34:21.040 --> 02:34:25.479 mind controlled Tavistock, and you know, he was very going 2901 02:34:25.520 --> 02:34:27.639 to do this to society, right like he's entered on 2902 02:34:27.680 --> 02:34:28.319 that process. 2903 02:34:28.520 --> 02:34:31.760 He had some odd concepts and he was a huge 2904 02:34:31.760 --> 02:34:33.040 influence on already Lane. 2905 02:34:33.200 --> 02:34:43.879 Yeah. Yeah, not the comedian, No, the oh so did 2906 02:34:43.920 --> 02:34:48.920 the millroom mill Burne? Was that any not to mil Grum? 2907 02:34:49.280 --> 02:34:50.879 You know, I'm not sure that's a good question. 2908 02:34:50.959 --> 02:34:54.319 It may have been, you know, the milgrim experiment. 2909 02:34:54.959 --> 02:34:57.360 Yeah, yeah, and that that's that's a good point. It 2910 02:34:57.639 --> 02:35:00.840 may have been that, uh, Julius that I would have 2911 02:35:00.879 --> 02:35:03.000 asked Peter Strout if I could have asked him, you know, 2912 02:35:03.079 --> 02:35:05.520 and sat down with him and said like, sure, wow, man, 2913 02:35:05.639 --> 02:35:08.959 you really packed the references into this one book. 2914 02:35:09.000 --> 02:35:11.040 It's just it's incredible hardcore. 2915 02:35:11.559 --> 02:35:15.639 Yeah, this may have been his opus. I don't know 2916 02:35:15.920 --> 02:35:18.239 about I'm not a hundred on that JJ. 2917 02:35:18.799 --> 02:35:21.239 When they were convincing folks to shock, they thought they 2918 02:35:21.239 --> 02:35:24.600 were getting you know, deadly levels of shock therapy, but 2919 02:35:24.639 --> 02:35:26.600 really they were just an actor holding the things like 2920 02:35:26.639 --> 02:35:29.079 they were getting shocked and the person didn't know. The 2921 02:35:29.120 --> 02:35:31.600 whole thing was an experiment. But they realized that they 2922 02:35:31.600 --> 02:35:34.079 could get other people to kill people because they were 2923 02:35:34.120 --> 02:35:35.000 being told to do so. 2924 02:35:35.760 --> 02:35:37.200 Oh shit. 2925 02:35:39.479 --> 02:35:42.280 Granted on paper, at least allegedly, they weren't really killing folks. 2926 02:35:42.520 --> 02:35:45.520 There was no actual electric shock being applied. The person 2927 02:35:45.799 --> 02:35:48.319 who was applying electric shock was the subject of the 2928 02:35:48.360 --> 02:35:49.719 test to see how much they could get them to 2929 02:35:49.760 --> 02:35:52.520 do by just telling them to do more, you know everything, 2930 02:35:52.719 --> 02:35:54.959 even though everything said that person was going to die, 2931 02:35:55.200 --> 02:35:56.959 and they would remind the person's gonna die, you know, 2932 02:35:56.959 --> 02:35:58.639 I'm just gonna do it anyway, because there was a 2933 02:35:58.639 --> 02:36:01.280 bifurcation of liability, et cetera, et cetera. But yeah, it's 2934 02:36:01.280 --> 02:36:02.799 really easy to get people to tell people to die 2935 02:36:02.879 --> 02:36:04.000 and kill people apparently. 2936 02:36:04.360 --> 02:36:07.399 Well, I mean, this is a psychological operation. 2937 02:36:07.159 --> 02:36:08.959 That's what I mean. So this guy, That's what I'm saying. 2938 02:36:09.000 --> 02:36:11.440 So if we're doing baits and stuff, right, why would 2939 02:36:11.559 --> 02:36:13.719 Milburn not be a nod to mil Groom? Right? 2940 02:36:14.200 --> 02:36:15.559 Ah, for sure? 2941 02:36:16.639 --> 02:36:21.479 Yeah, yeah, those were the thoughts of the circle back 2942 02:36:21.479 --> 02:36:23.399 in my brain hole there. That was. I appreciate y'all 2943 02:36:23.479 --> 02:36:27.360 stand by for that one. But yeah, So the next 2944 02:36:27.360 --> 02:36:30.079 thing we see after we see the four, the three 2945 02:36:30.120 --> 02:36:33.120 out of the four dance with the Eva. She hits 2946 02:36:33.120 --> 02:36:34.680 her head. They put her in the car, they sent 2947 02:36:34.760 --> 02:36:36.360 her in the pond, but she's alive when she goes 2948 02:36:36.360 --> 02:36:38.120 in that pond. So that's a very to me, that's 2949 02:36:38.200 --> 02:36:40.399 very indigicative, a ritual human sacrificing water. 2950 02:36:41.120 --> 02:36:44.399 Same and the fact that she's a siren. 2951 02:36:45.680 --> 02:36:48.920 There you go again with the sirens. I wasn't even 2952 02:36:48.920 --> 02:36:50.440 considering that the first time I saw it. With the 2953 02:36:50.440 --> 02:36:53.360 siren stuff, that's even Yeah, brings it all right into 2954 02:36:53.639 --> 02:36:55.280 the same same conversation. 2955 02:36:55.719 --> 02:36:58.280 And it's like she draws her power from the water 2956 02:36:58.440 --> 02:37:03.000 because water is a condo for Yeah. 2957 02:37:03.000 --> 02:37:05.920 Yeah, that's right. So they call him Gregory bait, which yeah, 2958 02:37:05.959 --> 02:37:07.360 I was like, wait a second, that's a little too 2959 02:37:07.360 --> 02:37:11.520 on the nose, Gregory Bates and yeah, yeah, so then 2960 02:37:11.559 --> 02:37:13.840 we go back to present day, right, and then that's 2961 02:37:13.879 --> 02:37:17.040 when these fellows start, you know, after they flashed back 2962 02:37:17.040 --> 02:37:19.680 to yesterdayear remember the time they killed that lady and 2963 02:37:19.760 --> 02:37:21.360 they're like, wait a second, and that lady is the 2964 02:37:21.360 --> 02:37:22.760 new lady? What's going on here? 2965 02:37:23.159 --> 02:37:27.920 Right? Right? And then you have a long flashback scene 2966 02:37:28.000 --> 02:37:31.000 with the with the young versions of all the members 2967 02:37:31.040 --> 02:37:33.559 of the Chatter Society, and we see how they meet 2968 02:37:34.120 --> 02:37:38.399 Eva like a summertime, some sort of social gathering, and 2969 02:37:38.559 --> 02:37:41.479 then they she's had a tea or a dance or something, 2970 02:37:42.360 --> 02:37:46.040 and they all become fascinated with her. But it's it's Ned, 2971 02:37:46.159 --> 02:37:48.799 who's the best looking of the bunch, and it's Ned 2972 02:37:48.879 --> 02:37:55.440 that he and Eva are attracted each other. And so 2973 02:37:55.479 --> 02:37:58.799 they're all out doing this almost kind of like surreal, 2974 02:37:58.920 --> 02:38:00.760 like they're running through in order trued. And then they're 2975 02:38:00.760 --> 02:38:01.920 on a canoe. 2976 02:38:01.639 --> 02:38:06.680 And yeah, you know, nineteen twenties escape, like right. 2977 02:38:06.719 --> 02:38:10.920 Everybody's wearing those boater hats and but yeah, that's an 2978 02:38:10.920 --> 02:38:14.760 interesting series of scenes too. But yeah, they they wind 2979 02:38:14.840 --> 02:38:18.680 up killing Eva accidentally or they think they've killed her 2980 02:38:18.680 --> 02:38:23.200 as we described, but then they see as they're pushing 2981 02:38:23.239 --> 02:38:27.000 the car into the pond that that she's still a 2982 02:38:27.639 --> 02:38:31.840 lot of the back window and is banging on the 2983 02:38:31.840 --> 02:38:33.120 window and screen. 2984 02:38:33.200 --> 02:38:37.239 They put in zero efforts and watching. 2985 02:38:38.600 --> 02:38:44.760 Like, oh wait, she's alive, you know, ling and looked 2986 02:38:44.760 --> 02:38:48.200 at each other and they were like, wow, fuck, I 2987 02:38:48.239 --> 02:38:49.920 guess she's dead, right. 2988 02:38:49.760 --> 02:38:52.760 And that's that's that's supposed to be, Like, look at 2989 02:38:52.799 --> 02:38:55.319 these horrible, spoiled rich kids. Look at what they did. 2990 02:38:55.600 --> 02:38:58.399 They had a chance to save somebody's life, and they, 2991 02:39:00.799 --> 02:39:02.799 which is in the book is is the way they 2992 02:39:02.799 --> 02:39:05.159 think of themselves all throughout their lives. They think, God, 2993 02:39:05.239 --> 02:39:08.239 we just killed somebody. We murdered a woman. And then 2994 02:39:08.360 --> 02:39:12.040 Don tells Sears and Ricky in the book, you know 2995 02:39:12.120 --> 02:39:14.600 she never was a woman. There was always something wrong 2996 02:39:14.680 --> 02:39:18.000 with her. What you did was you just inadvertently caught 2997 02:39:18.040 --> 02:39:21.760 her off guard. She was already going to kill you, 2998 02:39:21.840 --> 02:39:24.360 but you just made her angrier than ever. And that's 2999 02:39:24.360 --> 02:39:27.360 why she's been coming back over and over throughout your 3000 02:39:27.360 --> 02:39:31.840 lives and families. 3001 02:39:31.360 --> 02:39:33.319 And killing their sons and. 3002 02:39:34.680 --> 02:39:36.559 The audience to see their sons dick because they're falling 3003 02:39:36.559 --> 02:39:43.079 out of building. Yeah, so that I'm obviously upset about 3004 02:39:43.079 --> 02:39:43.559 that or anything. 3005 02:39:44.360 --> 02:39:51.520 We flashed back to present time. He flapped he what 3006 02:39:52.440 --> 02:39:52.760 I said? 3007 02:39:52.799 --> 02:39:54.479 That guy flashed something all right in that in that 3008 02:39:54.559 --> 02:39:55.680 scene falling out of the building. 3009 02:39:56.559 --> 02:39:59.200 Yeah, his baby asparagus? 3010 02:40:00.000 --> 02:40:01.840 What were you saying? The flashback to the present when 3011 02:40:01.840 --> 02:40:04.360 we see them concluding that Eva and Alma are the 3012 02:40:04.399 --> 02:40:06.639 same person, right, Yeah. 3013 02:40:06.319 --> 02:40:08.399 And then they're like, all right, what are we gonna do? 3014 02:40:09.719 --> 02:40:12.879 And they decide to drive back to Eva's old boarded up, 3015 02:40:12.920 --> 02:40:14.319 old scary house. 3016 02:40:14.760 --> 02:40:17.319 Yeah, where fred Istaire got Ricky got chased out by 3017 02:40:17.360 --> 02:40:19.840 the goons, the goons squad, yep. 3018 02:40:19.959 --> 02:40:25.040 Yeah. And in the meantime, here Sears. He has left 3019 02:40:25.479 --> 02:40:28.920 Ricky's house alone to sort of divert attention because he 3020 02:40:28.920 --> 02:40:31.520 thinks if he can draw the bad guys away from 3021 02:40:32.120 --> 02:40:35.680 Ricky and Don that he'll sacrifice himself to do this. 3022 02:40:35.719 --> 02:40:39.680 So he does. Sears dies when Gregory and Finny magically 3023 02:40:39.680 --> 02:40:42.639 appear in his car. So they kill Sears in his 3024 02:40:42.680 --> 02:40:45.760 car out in the snow, and then there's just Ricky 3025 02:40:45.799 --> 02:40:49.280 and Don left and they go to Eva's house and yeah, 3026 02:40:49.319 --> 02:40:51.760 Don hurts his leg and uh. 3027 02:40:52.040 --> 02:40:55.159 Stairs in the old lap and instructure. Huh right, right, 3028 02:40:57.719 --> 02:41:00.719 and then we see them going, uh, he suddenly has 3029 02:41:00.760 --> 02:41:02.719 a go ahead, go ahead, Oh yeah, I. 3030 02:41:02.719 --> 02:41:04.920 Was just yeah the interior. That is really nice that 3031 02:41:05.040 --> 02:41:09.120 they convincingly recreate a broken down house from that period. 3032 02:41:09.479 --> 02:41:11.799 It's that's really nice, and. 3033 02:41:11.520 --> 02:41:19.479 Maybe that's where the main thing. Yeah, yeah, we see 3034 02:41:19.520 --> 02:41:21.799 we suddenly see, after watching all his friends die, that 3035 02:41:21.840 --> 02:41:24.479 he's something that old Ricky here suddenly gets a conscience 3036 02:41:24.479 --> 02:41:25.040 about himself. 3037 02:41:25.120 --> 02:41:28.000 Huh he does. Yeah, And while he's going to get 3038 02:41:28.000 --> 02:41:30.559 help for Don, who can't move because of his injured leg, 3039 02:41:31.239 --> 02:41:34.399 he gets the idea that, well, maybe if we pull 3040 02:41:34.479 --> 02:41:38.040 the old car up from the pond. And it's not 3041 02:41:38.159 --> 02:41:40.719 real clear how he thinks this is going to solve everything, 3042 02:41:40.760 --> 02:41:44.840 but he wants to make it the nineteen twenty nine incident, right, 3043 02:41:44.920 --> 02:41:47.440 So he tells the sheriff what he and his friends 3044 02:41:47.479 --> 02:41:49.559 did to the woman back then and that they pushed 3045 02:41:49.600 --> 02:41:52.239 the car into the pond. So they go and they 3046 02:41:52.239 --> 02:41:52.559 get the. 3047 02:41:52.799 --> 02:41:54.559 Car on the pond routine, and he thinks that the 3048 02:41:54.600 --> 02:41:57.360 woman is that he thinks the woman is is in 3049 02:41:57.440 --> 02:41:58.479 the car or not in the car. 3050 02:41:58.879 --> 02:42:02.120 He thinks somehow if he can dredge up the body 3051 02:42:02.159 --> 02:42:05.760 and expose the body that the ghost will leave Don alone. 3052 02:42:05.959 --> 02:42:08.440 And it's never really clear how that works, but he 3053 02:42:08.520 --> 02:42:11.040 gets a tow truck and a crane and a wench 3054 02:42:11.079 --> 02:42:14.520 and everything, and they they dredge the pond and then. 3055 02:42:16.200 --> 02:42:18.520 The old pond, the car of the pond magic trick with. 3056 02:42:18.520 --> 02:42:21.559 The right Yeah, yeah, it's it is kind of an 3057 02:42:21.600 --> 02:42:23.840 unexpected that, like, that's not where you expect the plot 3058 02:42:23.879 --> 02:42:27.239 to go, you know. But Done is waiting in the 3059 02:42:27.280 --> 02:42:29.920 house and Eva's ghost is right there and she's reaching 3060 02:42:29.959 --> 02:42:32.639 out for him, and she's like a skeleton hand touching 3061 02:42:32.680 --> 02:42:35.840 his throat and he's screaming and and so. But just 3062 02:42:35.920 --> 02:42:38.479 at that moment they dredge the car up from the pond, 3063 02:42:39.479 --> 02:42:43.079 Ricky or somebody opens the door and then out comes 3064 02:42:43.120 --> 02:42:45.600 Eva's corpse straight at him, and Ricky is going like, 3065 02:42:46.319 --> 02:42:48.280 you know, like you're afraid that's going to kill him 3066 02:42:48.319 --> 02:42:50.799 since all his other friends are already dead. But the 3067 02:42:51.879 --> 02:42:55.120 body of Eva collapses right there on the ground. And 3068 02:42:55.159 --> 02:43:00.520 then suddenly, back at Eva's house, her ghost or the 3069 02:43:00.520 --> 02:43:03.399 ghost of all whatever she is, is gone, and Done 3070 02:43:03.479 --> 02:43:04.159 is safe too. 3071 02:43:05.079 --> 02:43:05.280 Yeah. 3072 02:43:05.719 --> 02:43:06.559 Well, yeah, it. 3073 02:43:06.600 --> 02:43:10.280 Was like every she needed everybody to know what happened 3074 02:43:10.479 --> 02:43:10.639 to you. 3075 02:43:11.559 --> 02:43:14.239 Yeah, and and just by their dredging up the car 3076 02:43:14.360 --> 02:43:21.200 and exposing the body somehow or other her her visits, right, yeah, yeah, 3077 02:43:21.399 --> 02:43:21.959 that put you. 3078 02:43:24.360 --> 02:43:26.680 Which you know, to a certain extent, I feel like 3079 02:43:27.239 --> 02:43:29.559 that's kind of these tropes and that that that you know, 3080 02:43:29.719 --> 02:43:32.840 there's some sort of you know, something attracting keeping these 3081 02:43:32.959 --> 02:43:34.600 uh these you know, this isn't the first time we've 3082 02:43:34.600 --> 02:43:37.200 seen some sort of a priestess of a witchcraft type 3083 02:43:37.239 --> 02:43:41.280 of deal sorcery kind of being that's haunting folks until 3084 02:43:41.280 --> 02:43:43.920 they can get something back from the person, a heart 3085 02:43:44.079 --> 02:43:46.760 or a long maybe I'm maybe kidney. I'm not sure 3086 02:43:46.799 --> 02:43:49.319 they're on an organ donor list in the spirit world 3087 02:43:49.399 --> 02:43:51.760 or what. But they're always after something, right. 3088 02:43:52.319 --> 02:43:54.120 Right, like a pound of flesh. 3089 02:43:54.200 --> 02:43:55.520 Yeah, yeah, there you go. 3090 02:43:55.920 --> 02:43:56.920 Yeah. 3091 02:43:56.959 --> 02:44:00.600 So I'm trying to remember why I saved this from 3092 02:44:00.639 --> 02:44:04.239 the film, and I just got distracted because, uh was 3093 02:44:04.239 --> 02:44:06.799 that it We're I'll give you all some closing statements, 3094 02:44:06.799 --> 02:44:08.479 but that was I thought that was a great recap 3095 02:44:08.520 --> 02:44:11.200 of events. But I had saved two notes from earlier 3096 02:44:11.319 --> 02:44:14.040 I said that were really weird and creepy synchronistic events 3097 02:44:14.079 --> 02:44:15.680 for me. When I was watching this film and reading 3098 02:44:15.680 --> 02:44:17.920 about stuff. Yeah, and I don't remember why I saved 3099 02:44:17.920 --> 02:44:19.399 this lady to it to give me a second, but 3100 02:44:19.479 --> 02:44:21.559 she I just got distracted because she was married to 3101 02:44:21.680 --> 02:44:23.879 Roll Doll speaking of Deadler. 3102 02:44:23.719 --> 02:44:27.079 Oh Patrician Neil. Yeah, I almost forget. Yeah, she was 3103 02:44:27.879 --> 02:44:28.559 Ricky's wife. 3104 02:44:28.639 --> 02:44:31.280 Yeah, that's right, she was Ricky's wife, Thank you, sir. 3105 02:44:31.319 --> 02:44:32.799 I knew there was some reason why I saved this. 3106 02:44:32.959 --> 02:44:36.040 Yeah. And why can't I think of her name Stella? Yeah? 3107 02:44:36.120 --> 02:44:38.079 Yeah, so she was married to the old diddler Roll 3108 02:44:38.159 --> 02:44:40.719 Doll because them Snosberry's from Willi Wanka turned out to 3109 02:44:40.719 --> 02:44:41.959 be dicks and not candy. 3110 02:44:42.440 --> 02:44:46.600 Yeah, she was. At one point she was Dashal Hammett's 3111 02:44:46.600 --> 02:44:47.399 girlfriend too. 3112 02:44:47.959 --> 02:44:51.479 Oh interesting, Yeah, when Roll Doll was telling folks that 3113 02:44:51.559 --> 02:44:54.159 the Snosberry's tastes like Snosberry's according to them kids. He 3114 02:44:54.159 --> 02:44:57.559 would later describe the Snosberry's the later book as dix 3115 02:44:58.600 --> 02:45:01.000 a over here. 3116 02:45:01.600 --> 02:45:05.280 In fact, according to one of Nashal Hammett's daughters, Hammett 3117 02:45:05.319 --> 02:45:08.719 warned her, uh, don't get married to him. He's not 3118 02:45:08.760 --> 02:45:11.000 a good person, or something to that effect. So that 3119 02:45:11.120 --> 02:45:11.840 that's interesting. 3120 02:45:12.000 --> 02:45:14.760 Yeah, that is interesting. Well, can't be the purge there. 3121 02:45:14.760 --> 02:45:18.319 It's my Abin Costello Cohort and I have four conversations 3122 02:45:18.319 --> 02:45:20.239 we do over there on his show, and he's gonna 3123 02:45:20.239 --> 02:45:23.040 love this one. So as you can see her. Patricia 3124 02:45:23.040 --> 02:45:26.040 O'Neil was a member of Phi Beta Pi, the sorority 3125 02:45:26.040 --> 02:45:28.600 girls up and around that Idaho for murder. We're all 3126 02:45:28.680 --> 02:45:33.520 Phi Beta Pie. Interesting. Interesting, and the man, the male, 3127 02:45:33.840 --> 02:45:37.040 the male victim was Sigma Chai. And in the film 3128 02:45:37.440 --> 02:45:40.280 we hear them singing this song, Sweetheart of Sigma Chai. 3129 02:45:41.079 --> 02:45:45.399 Excellent. Yes, that's what we're singing it down down below 3130 02:45:45.440 --> 02:45:46.600 eas window. Yeah. 3131 02:45:46.680 --> 02:45:50.600 Yeah. The Snisberry like Snilesberry's. 3132 02:45:50.840 --> 02:45:52.200 Yeah. 3133 02:45:52.280 --> 02:45:54.479 According to these guys and even bunch of Dix, if 3134 02:45:54.479 --> 02:45:58.120 you asked me to believe this is somehow just weird circumstances. 3135 02:45:57.760 --> 02:45:59.840 I would not put that pass for roll Doll at all. 3136 02:45:59.879 --> 02:46:02.360 He was a very peculiar person. 3137 02:46:03.319 --> 02:46:05.479 I'm just saying, like, it's just weird. It just weird 3138 02:46:05.520 --> 02:46:07.680 to me that in the future past all of these things. Again, 3139 02:46:07.719 --> 02:46:10.040 I don't want to get into comments of questions of 3140 02:46:10.079 --> 02:46:11.920 time and concept of time, but it is weird to 3141 02:46:11.959 --> 02:46:13.879 me how some of these things work, that like you 3142 02:46:13.920 --> 02:46:16.040 can have such you know, elements where an actress as 3143 02:46:16.040 --> 02:46:17.760 a member of the same sorority as these victims, and 3144 02:46:17.760 --> 02:46:19.879 they're singing a song about the other victim and the 3145 02:46:20.040 --> 02:46:22.079 fraternity he's from. It's just a weird concept of the 3146 02:46:22.120 --> 02:46:23.360 movie for me to watch, and I was like, what 3147 02:46:23.399 --> 02:46:24.440 the fuck's going on right now? 3148 02:46:24.440 --> 02:46:24.600 Man? 3149 02:46:25.159 --> 02:46:26.760 Gil Bill Sarns went off in my brain hole, is 3150 02:46:26.760 --> 02:46:27.280 what I'm saying. 3151 02:46:27.479 --> 02:46:29.920 I think all of this stuff is absolutely conscious. I 3152 02:46:29.920 --> 02:46:32.399 mean it just doesn't you know. 3153 02:46:32.520 --> 02:46:37.600 Yeah, Well, I'm what I'm saying about time and magic. 3154 02:46:37.680 --> 02:46:39.360 It's like and again, I want to this is a 3155 02:46:39.360 --> 02:46:41.680 conversation for a different day. But I think part of 3156 02:46:41.719 --> 02:46:45.040 this and Peter Lavenda, the OTO member, brings us up 3157 02:46:45.040 --> 02:46:46.760 in his book relative to some of the son the 3158 02:46:46.760 --> 02:46:49.639 same matters, right, talking about time and centers for forces 3159 02:46:49.639 --> 02:46:52.360 and whatnot, and how you can how these magicians impact 3160 02:46:52.440 --> 02:46:54.879 time and a non linear fashion. And again it's a 3161 02:46:55.120 --> 02:46:56.719 it's a lot of stuff to get into right now, 3162 02:46:56.719 --> 02:46:59.840 but these are concepts similar to a relative to the subject. 3163 02:47:00.200 --> 02:47:03.879 Folks like the OTO member, Peter Lavenda, right. 3164 02:47:04.159 --> 02:47:09.040 Yeah, yeah, And these people they do, they're very serious 3165 02:47:09.079 --> 02:47:11.680 about what they do. A lot of them, well, this 3166 02:47:11.680 --> 02:47:13.799 this stuff is silly that they're into, but it's but 3167 02:47:13.879 --> 02:47:16.120 they take it very very seriously. 3168 02:47:16.360 --> 02:47:20.399 Right, I say that all the time. Yeah, I agree. 3169 02:47:21.040 --> 02:47:23.959 Yeah, when when, for examplehen people try to try suggest 3170 02:47:23.959 --> 02:47:26.879 to me that the Church of Satan and Antonavay was 3171 02:47:26.879 --> 02:47:28.440 just a carnival barker and it was all a bit. 3172 02:47:28.520 --> 02:47:30.159 It is all a gambit, and I'm like, all right, dude, 3173 02:47:30.159 --> 02:47:31.719 well that's hilarious, but I don't buy it. 3174 02:47:32.000 --> 02:47:34.040 Yeah, and that's exactly what they want people to think. 3175 02:47:34.079 --> 02:47:34.959 It's all just a joke. 3176 02:47:35.639 --> 02:47:40.239 Yeah, you know, yeah, yeah, we're we're just we're just dignostic. 3177 02:47:40.399 --> 02:47:43.360 We just like the Lares Devils and weird Ship. 3178 02:47:44.959 --> 02:47:50.040 The Larvest Devils. You know what it is to This 3179 02:47:50.079 --> 02:47:52.159 is something that I always bring up when I cover 3180 02:47:52.239 --> 02:47:56.200 these type of topics, is if they weren't seeing results, 3181 02:47:56.840 --> 02:47:59.760 why would they keep doing it. They've been doing it 3182 02:48:00.600 --> 02:48:03.799 and obviously they're getting some kind of results, so you 3183 02:48:03.879 --> 02:48:06.520 don't have to believe in it, but they do. And 3184 02:48:06.760 --> 02:48:09.799 obviously it's working for them, or they wouldn't do the 3185 02:48:09.879 --> 02:48:10.760 shit that they're doing. 3186 02:48:10.840 --> 02:48:13.600 Oh yeah. And when I say this nonlinear aspect of 3187 02:48:13.600 --> 02:48:16.520 time where ideas come from, especially for writers, and again 3188 02:48:16.600 --> 02:48:18.680 suggested by Peter Leavenda, where I even came up but 3189 02:48:18.719 --> 02:48:21.280 started going on this path. Not just his ideas, but 3190 02:48:21.319 --> 02:48:22.959 he's the one who sent me on this path. I 3191 02:48:22.959 --> 02:48:26.040 believe he mentions it in Sinister Forces. There was a 3192 02:48:26.040 --> 02:48:28.440 book written, I believe in eighteen eighty seven called The 3193 02:48:28.479 --> 02:48:31.799 titan which was about an indestructible cruise linership that went 3194 02:48:31.799 --> 02:48:35.559 between Europe and America and suddenly hit an iceberg and sank. 3195 02:48:35.600 --> 02:48:37.719 Well that just so happened to occur again later in 3196 02:48:37.719 --> 02:48:40.399 the future. Real world time is the Titanic. So that's 3197 02:48:40.440 --> 02:48:42.239 all I'm saying here with these circumstances. 3198 02:48:42.479 --> 02:48:45.479 Yeah, no, absolutely, oh yeah, you. 3199 02:48:45.440 --> 02:48:47.280 Get in, Julie, get something I was just for, at 3200 02:48:47.360 --> 02:48:49.399 least for the advocation of the folks of the interwebs 3201 02:48:49.479 --> 02:48:52.680 who have missed my you know, routine and you know, 3202 02:48:53.040 --> 02:48:56.760 unsolicited tirades on time. Then you know there's part of 3203 02:48:56.760 --> 02:49:00.200 it right there. I appreciate both your else on the 3204 02:49:00.280 --> 02:49:02.520 night speaking of time, Julia and John both, and for 3205 02:49:02.639 --> 02:49:04.440 blowing up my brain whole a number of times, which 3206 02:49:04.639 --> 02:49:06.440 thanks I just got. I just started getting in that 3207 02:49:06.440 --> 02:49:08.879 cycle for a moment. There are things you suggested to me. 3208 02:49:08.920 --> 02:49:10.520 No I didn't know. I'm like, wait a second, I 3209 02:49:10.559 --> 02:49:12.159 got to close the show out first before I start 3210 02:49:12.200 --> 02:49:15.399 doing that, so I appreciate both of your all time. 3211 02:49:15.879 --> 02:49:23.399 Yeah, yes, yes, great to meet you, John, I always love. 3212 02:49:27.040 --> 02:49:28.000 Go ahead, thank you. 3213 02:49:29.319 --> 02:49:30.440 No, that's all I had JJ. 3214 02:49:30.479 --> 02:49:33.120 Go ahead. I'll make sure I connect y'all with the emails, 3215 02:49:33.120 --> 02:49:35.680 and I'll put your email Julia in the show notes 3216 02:49:35.920 --> 02:49:38.760 for folks to reach out to you, especially maze Iss, 3217 02:49:38.799 --> 02:49:41.280 who I again love to hear more thoughts there, ma'am. 3218 02:49:41.319 --> 02:49:45.079 That's great stuff. I appreciate the input and chat for 3219 02:49:45.120 --> 02:49:46.879 all the folks in the web as well, for sure. 3220 02:49:47.159 --> 02:49:49.440 And if I can offer y'all, I appre appreciate y'all's 3221 02:49:49.479 --> 02:49:51.600 review and again all the ideas we've shared your night's 3222 02:49:51.600 --> 02:49:55.639 great stuff. I like to offer y'all both a closing statement, ma'am, 3223 02:49:55.680 --> 02:49:57.360 would you like to go first? And anything you'd like 3224 02:49:57.399 --> 02:49:58.840 to recap or anything you like to plug. 3225 02:50:00.440 --> 02:50:04.559 I thought this movie was really awesome. John obviously reads 3226 02:50:04.639 --> 02:50:07.159 the book every October. It sounds like it's just a 3227 02:50:07.200 --> 02:50:10.479 part of his Halloween ritual thing that he does. I 3228 02:50:10.559 --> 02:50:13.799 have a similar one. I watch American Horror Story season 3229 02:50:13.840 --> 02:50:18.079 one in three every October, just something I like to do. 3230 02:50:18.200 --> 02:50:21.719 I think there's a lot of conspiracy stuff within American 3231 02:50:21.760 --> 02:50:25.719 horror story and so yeah, it's just nice meeting people 3232 02:50:25.799 --> 02:50:29.680 who know what's up and having a good conversation. JJ, 3233 02:50:29.840 --> 02:50:32.479 thanks for the invite, John, great to meet you. Yes, 3234 02:50:32.760 --> 02:50:36.440 the chat was on fire tonight, So thanks to everybody 3235 02:50:36.479 --> 02:50:38.959 in the chat. And yeah, that's it for me. 3236 02:50:40.280 --> 02:50:43.639 That's awesome. No, thank you, ma'amon. I definitely one thing 3237 02:50:43.639 --> 02:50:45.680 I was thinking, and we'll turn over to John for 3238 02:50:45.680 --> 02:50:47.360 an answer, but i'd like to get both y'all back 3239 02:50:47.399 --> 02:50:49.799 on to discuss Program to Kill after John gets a 3240 02:50:49.840 --> 02:50:50.479 chance to read it. 3241 02:50:51.319 --> 02:50:53.360 Absolutely, I'm down for that anytime. 3242 02:50:53.959 --> 02:50:56.159 What do you say, Johnny Gunny closing statements, We welcome 3243 02:50:56.239 --> 02:50:58.719 and I'm sure you're welcome back anytime to talking to 3244 02:50:58.760 --> 02:51:01.040 these things. But you know, I would love to get 3245 02:51:01.040 --> 02:51:03.479 your input on the Program to Kill once you get 3246 02:51:03.479 --> 02:51:04.879 a chance to read that. And I don't knock over 3247 02:51:04.920 --> 02:51:06.760 my micro front with the karate chop. 3248 02:51:07.239 --> 02:51:09.600 Yeah, I look forward to that. Yeah, I'm gonna start 3249 02:51:09.639 --> 02:51:12.520 reading it tomorrow. So yeah, and and thank you guys. 3250 02:51:12.559 --> 02:51:15.840 And uh, I'm just uh, I'm still working on the book. 3251 02:51:15.840 --> 02:51:17.479 I don't know when that's gonna come out, but it's 3252 02:51:17.559 --> 02:51:19.760 it's gonna be a big one and it's uh, it's 3253 02:51:19.760 --> 02:51:22.280 taken me a long time because I'm doing all the 3254 02:51:22.440 --> 02:51:25.399 editing and all the drafts myself. So I'm just working 3255 02:51:25.399 --> 02:51:27.719 on it bit by bit, but it'll it'll be out eventually. 3256 02:51:28.120 --> 02:51:30.600 It's good to have a better uh probably you you know, 3257 02:51:30.639 --> 02:51:32.600 you can stand behind rather than one that's timely, you know. 3258 02:51:32.600 --> 02:51:34.799 What I mean, right, I want to I want to 3259 02:51:34.840 --> 02:51:36.520 take some care of it. So so. 3260 02:51:39.040 --> 02:51:40.079 Passion Project. 3261 02:51:40.520 --> 02:51:43.799 Yeah, that's great stuff. And I'll, like I said, I'll 3262 02:51:43.879 --> 02:51:45.920 have all your all folks in the interwebs can find 3263 02:51:46.000 --> 02:51:48.680 Julia's stuff, John stuff and the links and their show 3264 02:51:48.719 --> 02:51:52.360 in the show notes. And uh, I don't have any 3265 02:51:52.360 --> 02:51:54.920 closing statements myself other than I greatly appreciate your all 3266 02:51:55.040 --> 02:51:57.319 time and conversation well at the time of the and 3267 02:51:57.559 --> 02:52:00.280 shadow of the folks of the interwebs. And uh in 3268 02:52:00.360 --> 02:52:04.520 for Operation GCD Thursdays, I'm a Patreon. I'll do a 3269 02:52:04.520 --> 02:52:06.879 about a thirty minute preview here on the on the 3270 02:52:06.920 --> 02:52:09.280 youtubes and the other stuff, and then I go over 3271 02:52:09.319 --> 02:52:12.079 to the Patreon Thursdays and Sundays. But tomorrow is my 3272 02:52:12.159 --> 02:52:17.200 first the Anatomy of a Satanic Panic, which again largely 3273 02:52:17.600 --> 02:52:20.520 is gonna involve not this guy, not the muppet version 3274 02:52:20.559 --> 02:52:22.559 of this guy, but the original version of this guy, 3275 02:52:23.120 --> 02:52:25.920 Michael Lokino. You know, like I said, Psyops, I'm not 3276 02:52:25.920 --> 02:52:28.600 gonna be like, well, I'm happy to discuss elements of 3277 02:52:29.000 --> 02:52:31.280 satanic murders that have existed in around the sun of 3278 02:52:31.319 --> 02:52:35.000 same situation or the process or anto these other similar murders. 3279 02:52:35.000 --> 02:52:37.680 We've discussed this evening. But I'm really looking at focusing 3280 02:52:37.680 --> 02:52:42.920 on unpacking the propaganda, the psychological operations, and then comparing 3281 02:52:43.000 --> 02:52:44.920 these these major events that we know of the Son 3282 02:52:44.959 --> 02:52:47.399 of Sam and stuff, and again showing that these aren't 3283 02:52:47.399 --> 02:52:49.799 the only you know, these aren't these This is not 3284 02:52:49.840 --> 02:52:51.760 the only example. It's not an outlier, right, There's a 3285 02:52:51.760 --> 02:52:53.639 lot more of the shit that doesn't even get talked about. 3286 02:52:53.879 --> 02:52:57.319 For example, you'll see the presidio board in the background here, 3287 02:52:57.319 --> 02:52:59.399 because you know he was stationed to the presidio associated with 3288 02:52:59.440 --> 02:53:04.280 the daycare situation. Is Julia's now You're head any agreements. 3289 02:53:04.319 --> 02:53:06.520 She's well aware of what I'm talking about there, Julia, 3290 02:53:06.520 --> 02:53:08.440 would you believe that's not the only daycar that popped 3291 02:53:08.440 --> 02:53:10.319 off with that same epidemic and the same problem. 3292 02:53:11.440 --> 02:53:16.360 I would believe that one hundred. I think McMartin Presidio. 3293 02:53:17.040 --> 02:53:22.159 I mean they're just uh, you know, drops in the bucket. Yeah, 3294 02:53:22.239 --> 02:53:25.559 if you if you can imagine. And just as a 3295 02:53:25.559 --> 02:53:29.760 closing thought, this is a closing thought anyone who has 3296 02:53:29.840 --> 02:53:32.639 read Program to Kill Her or they're familiar with McMartin 3297 02:53:32.680 --> 02:53:38.680 preschool scandal or the Presidio daycare scandal. I just recently 3298 02:53:38.719 --> 02:53:43.159 saw something saying that the movie with Robin Williams Missus Doubtfire, 3299 02:53:43.760 --> 02:53:48.520 that character, Missus Doubtfire is based on the preschool teacher 3300 02:53:48.680 --> 02:53:53.799 at McMartin, down to the exact look, wardrobe, everything. If 3301 02:53:53.840 --> 02:53:56.479 you look at the McMartin preschool teacher next to Robin 3302 02:53:56.520 --> 02:54:00.520 Williams as Missus Doubtfire, they're spitting images of each other there. 3303 02:54:01.280 --> 02:54:04.680 So that's a rabbit hole for the listeners to go and. 3304 02:54:04.639 --> 02:54:07.000 Look it down. I'm gonna look at as we get. 3305 02:54:06.840 --> 02:54:10.799 Off of here, in fact, but yeah, that's just for. 3306 02:54:11.840 --> 02:54:14.959 Sure, no, thank you. And from Presidio to West Point 3307 02:54:15.040 --> 02:54:17.479 at that same time in the eighties there was more 3308 02:54:17.559 --> 02:54:20.479 than one nddling scandal. So that's from coast to coast. 3309 02:54:20.799 --> 02:54:23.479 Just that's my point. We were so as part of 3310 02:54:23.520 --> 02:54:26.600 the propaganda and magic show. We're sold these one off 3311 02:54:26.680 --> 02:54:29.079 incidents and say everyone, look at this incident. This incident 3312 02:54:29.079 --> 02:54:31.159 didn't occur anywhere else. It only happened here at the presidio, 3313 02:54:31.200 --> 02:54:33.559 within the confines of the Persida and only involved Michael Keino. 3314 02:54:33.600 --> 02:54:35.319 And I assure you that ain't the full tail. 3315 02:54:35.719 --> 02:54:36.600 Yeah nope. 3316 02:54:37.200 --> 02:54:41.520 So folks want to check out more of that uh business, 3317 02:54:41.559 --> 02:54:46.200 please check out Operation GC thursdays and uh. On that note, 3318 02:54:46.319 --> 02:54:48.360 and if he yelled on anything else, I thank you 3319 02:54:48.440 --> 02:54:50.959 all both for your time and folks of the interwebs. 3320 02:54:51.959 --> 02:54:53.200 Thanks a lot, enjoyed it. 3321 02:54:53.639 --> 02:54:54.079 Thank you 3322 02:55:03.280 --> 02:55:03.319 O.