Speaker 1: Welcome to Spacing Out with BB and Jason this week,
Speaker 1: covering Foundation season three, episode three, When a Book finds You.
Speaker 2: Welcome to Spacy now. I'm BB and.
Speaker 3: I'm Jason, and we are discussing the Apple TV sci
Speaker 3: fi series Foundation, one episode at a time, covering season
Speaker 3: three week to week, and you might be listening to
Speaker 3: this on our Foundation podcast, but you can also check
Speaker 3: out our main channel, Spacing Out with Phoebe and Jason.
Speaker 3: We've covered all sorts of shows on there, including this one.
Speaker 3: And you're also welcome the right into us if you want.
Speaker 3: We never really.
Speaker 2: Mentioned that, but oh yeah, communicate.
Speaker 3: The channels are open. No one ever writes in but
Speaker 3: you never know. In this episode, the origins of Don's
Speaker 3: interest in psychohistory is revealed, with its first meeting years
Speaker 3: ago with a projection of Gail Dornick in the present.
Speaker 3: Gail request Don enclosed Kalgan to stimy the Mules. Ascent
Speaker 3: the Foundations, Captain Pritcher uses Torn Mallow and Beta as
Speaker 3: a way into a lavish mule party. Believe that they're
Speaker 3: becoming overcome. After angering the mule at the party, Torn
Speaker 3: and Beta escape with his mysterid musician Magnifico Giganticus the
Speaker 3: Mule begins reprisals to punish those who did not prevent
Speaker 3: the escape on trent Or. Fearing the imminent end of history,
Speaker 3: Day seeks the Imperial Garrison's help to leave Tranto. Pervertly
Speaker 3: thwarted from stronger action against Calgrin by his brothers, Don
Speaker 3: is only able to order continued surveillance, and Demerzelle removes
Speaker 3: Dave's companion's song after he reveals to her Demerzal's true nature.
Speaker 1: Vive check did we like the episode overall?
Speaker 2: All? Right?
Speaker 3: Three episodes in, How are we doing?
Speaker 2: I like it? That's pretty good.
Speaker 3: It is.
Speaker 2: I'm like, there's turns and twists and the characters are activating.
Speaker 2: So I'm very excited.
Speaker 3: Yeah, just going to repeat what I've said before, but
Speaker 3: like all the storylines are engaging. Every time I know
Speaker 3: switches to something else, I'm just as interested as the
Speaker 3: there's so yeah, it's a lot of fun and it's
Speaker 3: I feel like it's firing on all cylinders.
Speaker 2: And I'm down for this ride. That first season of Foundation,
Speaker 2: I was like, I don't know, dude, this is some
Speaker 2: nerd shit that I can't get on board with, but
Speaker 2: this one I feel like is approachable.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it kind of sucks if, like, if you want
Speaker 3: to share the show with someone, you're like convinced them
Speaker 3: to get through season one. Yeah, because I don't think
Speaker 3: you can understand the show without seeing it.
Speaker 2: Yeah, you kind of have to watch season one.
Speaker 3: Yeah, this episode continued to be good.
Speaker 1: Trivia time. What facts or news could we uncover for
Speaker 1: When a Book Finds You?
Speaker 3: This was Foundation season three, episode three, When a Book
Speaker 3: Finds You. This originally aired on July twenty fifth, twenty
Speaker 3: twenty five, written by Eric Carrasco and Greg Gates and
Speaker 3: directed by Tim Southand who's the same director as the
Speaker 3: last episode. So the only writer we haven't talked about
Speaker 3: before is Greg Gates, who is a writer known for
Speaker 3: the Sandman series on Netflix and has also had a
Speaker 3: career as a script supervisor. And then just checking in
Speaker 3: on the what the critical reception of the season's been
Speaker 3: so far, And it's been really positive on Rotten Tomatoes,
Speaker 3: the seasons out an eighty eight percent. It's a little
Speaker 3: bit down from last season, and in my opinion, I
Speaker 3: think this is actually coming in stronger than how last
Speaker 3: season started. Yeah, and the other review aggregators are kind
Speaker 3: of around that point as well. This episode is also
Speaker 3: flagged on IMDb as one of the top rated episodes.
Speaker 3: They kind of keep track of you a handful of
Speaker 3: episodes that are at the top of the list, so
Speaker 3: this is one of the best ones according to the
Speaker 3: ratings on IMDb.
Speaker 1: Deep Space Dive. Let's break down some of our thoughts
Speaker 1: on the episode. You can share your thoughts with us
Speaker 1: through email or social media. We may use your comments
Speaker 1: on an upcoming episode.
Speaker 3: Well, this episode starts in the library.
Speaker 2: Well a library.
Speaker 3: All good adventures start there.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's like Buffy the Vampire Slayer episode. Those kids
Speaker 2: are always in the library. Yeah. Brother Don is like,
Speaker 2: I want to read this book that got us into
Speaker 2: all of this, And apparently anybody who asks for this
Speaker 2: book gets to meet Gail Dornick.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's like a herd dating service. Yeah, connect me
Speaker 3: to anyone who's into this.
Speaker 2: Yeah, pretty much. Yeah, must love dogs and psychohistory. And
Speaker 2: she literally does go on a date with him this restaurant,
Speaker 2: at this tea house.
Speaker 3: Yeah. At times it seemed like this is a little plurity,
Speaker 3: isn't it.
Speaker 2: Yeah, And he's like, how are you three hundred years old,
Speaker 2: and she's like, oh, you know, I cry a sleep,
Speaker 2: I moisturize. I like this. I like that she kind
Speaker 2: of educated him on previous downs and what they like
Speaker 2: nature is in some cases where he sees them as
Speaker 2: traders because that's what he was, like that, that's the propaganda,
Speaker 2: that's what he was, that's what he learned. But she
Speaker 2: called them independent thinkers.
Speaker 3: She offered a different perspective on them.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and she says, you know, when you reach this age,
Speaker 2: certain versions of you are looking for an out. And
Speaker 2: I wish we could see what happened to the og
Speaker 2: Dawn that escaped with the Cloud Princess. They brought him up,
Speaker 2: and I'm like, man, we need a flashback or a
Speaker 2: flash forward, or we need to see that dynasty or
Speaker 2: what happened with that.
Speaker 3: Yeah, Like is is he just a reference point to
Speaker 3: move this character along the ways? Or But I feel
Speaker 3: like they made such a big deal about like them
Speaker 3: like desterilizing him or whatever they did.
Speaker 2: Mm hmmm. So there's I want to see his descendants.
Speaker 2: I saw Hobo Mellows, which I never thought i'd care about.
Speaker 2: The thing is that, like the universe doesn't know that
Speaker 2: these that Empire went rogues that one time, because as
Speaker 2: they were escaping, they had sent out those proxy like
Speaker 2: people to go out and like say, hey, we're here,
Speaker 2: We're queer. Get used to it.
Speaker 3: Yeah, So it.
Speaker 2: Was just like it's kind of like a secret that
Speaker 2: they left. Speaking of secrets, brother day let a big
Speaker 2: one out. Yeah, So I know I'm jumping forward a lot,
Speaker 2: but well.
Speaker 3: Let me just say about Gail just seems so freaking
Speaker 3: cool in that meeting.
Speaker 2: Yeah, just like laid back, like meaning back in the chair,
Speaker 2: Like I could almost see her like with a cigarette, Like,
Speaker 2: so you want to work for the foundation?
Speaker 3: I'm like, is this how Gail is going to be
Speaker 3: leading without Harry over his shoulder? Because I like it?
Speaker 2: I do too, I really do. And then when she
Speaker 2: finds out that Harry Selden gave away the prime radiant
Speaker 2: and she's like that motherfucker.
Speaker 3: Oh yeah. That's the other thing is that, like she
Speaker 3: didn't have all the information going into that meeting either.
Speaker 2: So now that she knows Drumoselre Demerzelle, yeah damn well,
Speaker 2: you know, mispronouncing a white woman's name. Equality.
Speaker 3: But she spent a lot of season two calling your
Speaker 3: Demerzal or something, but it's Demerzel Demersal.
Speaker 2: Anyway, She's got the prime radiant and I like that.
Speaker 2: He was like, I remember the first time I saw it,
Speaker 2: I was five years old, which means she's had it
Speaker 2: for a while. She's had it for a long time,
Speaker 2: for many decades, maybe even oh.
Speaker 3: Yeah, we're like two hundred and fifty years past last season,
Speaker 3: So she's been working on it long before he was born.
Speaker 2: And now he has insight that she doesn't. And it's
Speaker 2: very interesting to see their dynamic when they're in that
Speaker 2: throne room, because she's like, no, we got to worry
Speaker 2: about the counsel and he's like, honey, the mule is
Speaker 2: the problem. And he's trying to, like, you know, convince
Speaker 2: them that they need to do this thing without giving
Speaker 2: away that he's being influenced by an outside source. What
Speaker 2: a tangled web they weave.
Speaker 3: Yeah, so everyone else thinks he's been because pirate.
Speaker 2: Yeah, he's been overly cautious and he's maybe trying to
Speaker 2: flex because he's the new day around the corner.
Speaker 3: Yeah, like you have power, you just want to use
Speaker 3: the military.
Speaker 2: So it just I can feel like I relate to
Speaker 2: that feeling where you're the only person in the room
Speaker 2: who's like sounding the alarm and nobody's listening. Like it's
Speaker 2: so hard to feel alone in that moment, knowing that
Speaker 2: you're right, knowing that there's like like this is the
Speaker 2: reason that the world is going to end, and like
Speaker 2: saying like we need to be cautious because there's a
Speaker 2: rumor that he can control your mind. Oh, or to
Speaker 2: hear that rumor, Don, well, you know it's a rumor. Yeah,
Speaker 2: it's very interesting. So I don't know. It's just like
Speaker 2: I like that he's kind of like walking this very
Speaker 2: thin line of like trying to be influential without overstepping
Speaker 2: his position and role at this time. So I really
Speaker 2: liked Don in this one that he did really well.
Speaker 3: Yeah. And then as you were saying about brother Day,
Speaker 3: he's you know, very close with song Oh yeah, to
Speaker 3: the point where he is willing to well he.
Speaker 2: Thinks he's close because he doesn't even know where she's from. Yeah, Well,
Speaker 2: I mean they've been hanging out for six months.
Speaker 3: That could be on her part, like maintaining her secret
Speaker 3: because it's illegal for her to be part of that religion.
Speaker 2: Yeah, And I mean his reaction to like, having a
Speaker 2: robot in the house isn't the same as hers, probably like,
Speaker 2: but damn, that's like he's been burying his soul. He's
Speaker 2: been telling like empire's secrets to this woman, and she
Speaker 2: won't even tell him. I believe in robots. I think
Speaker 2: there are saviors yep.
Speaker 3: But so it's it's unclear what her reaction really is
Speaker 3: at first when she learns about Demersal, But she suddenly
Speaker 3: she like wants to stay in the palace and be
Speaker 3: like around her because she believes that the robots are
Speaker 3: coming back as their saviors or something like that.
Speaker 2: Yeah, well, and maybe they might be. I mean, there
Speaker 2: might be some grain of truth to that, if Demersal
Speaker 2: wasn't so help bent on like preserving empire but preserving
Speaker 2: humanity instead. But I think, what's who's to say that
Speaker 2: those two are not intrinsically like entangled and connected. Who's
Speaker 2: I mean? I don't know, though, a fall of an
Speaker 2: empire doesn't mean the fall of humanity necessarily. It just
Speaker 2: means that humanity will suffer for you know, a period
Speaker 2: of time to recover from losing things that empire can bring.
Speaker 2: Because I think it's complicated. We think of empire as
Speaker 2: this like big evil like thing, but you have to think,
Speaker 2: like it's also this agency of like providing some sort
Speaker 2: of stability to the people.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's it's structure. Yeah, so for good and bad. Yeah,
Speaker 3: like lose that like that. That's what the the idea
Speaker 3: of the foundation is that like empire will fall and
Speaker 3: we're going to minimize the suffering that comes with it.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's just like I think a good like governing
Speaker 2: body should be made to where even if the governing people,
Speaker 2: the people on top, are unavailable, the other parts of
Speaker 2: it will still move on, move forward. Like my my
Speaker 2: main thing is like even if there's not a president,
Speaker 2: we should still have a post office. Even if there's
Speaker 2: not a president, we should still have education department, you know,
Speaker 2: like things like that. Like, to me, that's what makes
Speaker 2: a good like government or empire or whatever you may
Speaker 2: call it. That Like, even though there's not a king
Speaker 2: in place, the people will still be able to live
Speaker 2: their day to day lives and access their day to
Speaker 2: day like infrastructure, like life will go on without the emperor.
Speaker 2: But I think the way that dem Rezol sees it
Speaker 2: is that you know, and I think maybe she's changing
Speaker 2: on it because she did kill a couple of them,
Speaker 2: where maybe the Empire isn't just the people on the throne,
Speaker 2: you know, So I don't know, I'm very interested to
Speaker 2: see the challenges that the Empire will face with this
Speaker 2: new player on the board. As Gail said, the mule
Speaker 2: is on the board, so it's kind of like a
Speaker 2: chess game. There was a moment in they're of just
Speaker 2: like the Empires, just hanging out, sharing that drink and
Speaker 2: that tradition, and it was just really nice to see
Speaker 2: them all together kind of as brothers in a way.
Speaker 2: I thought it was interesting that they did not engage
Speaker 2: in that commodittory until Demrisol left. Yeah, like they kind
Speaker 2: of like loosen their tie and unbutton their shirts and
Speaker 2: kind of like we're family, and their version of a
Speaker 2: family of like this like idea of passing down a
Speaker 2: tradition and having like a positive male role model show
Speaker 2: you that, like not everything has to be so serious.
Speaker 3: Yeah, And with these versions of them this season, you know,
Speaker 3: they've largely been kind of at odds with each other,
Speaker 3: maybe not Don in Dusk as much, but somewhat in
Speaker 3: this episode too. So it's just nice to see that
Speaker 3: they do have that closeness and that capability of that
Speaker 3: mm hmmm, which will probably make it hurt a little
Speaker 3: more when whatever inevitably rips them apart throughout the season.
Speaker 2: Well, you have one of them wanting to run away,
Speaker 2: and then the other one is committing treason, and then
Speaker 2: the oldest one has a fucking death star.
Speaker 3: That's true, and is trying to escape death too.
Speaker 2: Yeah, somehow escape death while bringing death. What a What
Speaker 2: a juxtaposition of an existence. So yeah, I think it's
Speaker 2: gonna be very interesting to see. I think it's it's
Speaker 2: definitely setting us up for some sort of like tragic
Speaker 2: family dispute or like their their relationship that seems tight
Speaker 2: and close knit even through their differences, it's going to
Speaker 2: be ripped apart by all of these different things pulling
Speaker 2: them in these different directions. So I'm very I love that.
Speaker 2: I love that, Like I think relational tensions are so
Speaker 2: much more exciting than like war fighting or whatever. I
Speaker 2: think that dynamics between personalities and having like establishing that
Speaker 2: closeness I think is gonna hurt more when they do
Speaker 2: finally tear apart. So I kind of love that.
Speaker 3: I love that little bit of levity about the geirafe
Speaker 3: the grass. Yeah, that was good, right before the Merzil
Speaker 3: breaks it.
Speaker 2: Down that your girlfriend loves robots and she gave me
Speaker 2: the I love robots sign and I had to erase
Speaker 2: our memory. You're lucky at inn killer, And I think
Speaker 2: part of it was also that she like likes that
Speaker 2: those people exist. Okay, you guys like robots, Well, I'll
Speaker 2: let you live.
Speaker 3: Yeah. So that's where we ended the episode, right, It
Speaker 3: was that revealing day being pissed off. So I wonder
Speaker 3: what his next move is.
Speaker 2: Is he still well, he already entangled that guard. Yeah,
Speaker 2: and that guard has the memory of them making a plan,
Speaker 2: and he the guard needs his daughter to be saved.
Speaker 2: Regardless of whether or not this motherfucker wants to leave
Speaker 2: or stay. He already promised that he would save his daughter.
Speaker 2: It just sucks that he can't escape with his lover.
Speaker 2: And honestly, that's all she was is a lover because
Speaker 2: she wasn't a partner to him. She was more like
Speaker 2: a drug dealer that gave him drugs and sex in
Speaker 2: order for her to survive and have her memory for longer.
Speaker 2: I think she was very I think she was kind
Speaker 2: of playing him in a way. I don't know if
Speaker 2: she ever really loved him, if she never revealed herself
Speaker 2: to him like that. Because if my partner that I
Speaker 2: trusted and loved told me that his nanny advisor is
Speaker 2: a robot and I love robots, I'd be like, oh, man,
Speaker 2: you know what I have to tell you. I love robots.
Speaker 2: I know you hate them, but I love them. I
Speaker 2: believe there are saviors, and I think we should stay.
Speaker 2: Like to tell you why I believe we should stay,
Speaker 2: Not Oh, I think we should stay. I think it's
Speaker 2: not it's not a bad idea to just kind of
Speaker 2: hang out a little longer.
Speaker 3: Well, I mean, she might have gotten to that point,
Speaker 3: but they were kind of interrupted.
Speaker 2: Because she gave the symbol she she should have also
Speaker 2: like stayed chill, like she was obviously enthusiastic enough to
Speaker 2: give out away her position to a damn robot, but
Speaker 2: not to her partner who she's been sleeping with for
Speaker 2: the last six months. That's fucked up. I don't know.
Speaker 2: It makes me feel like I could never trust her,
Speaker 2: even if she had her memories, even if she even
Speaker 2: if fucking the robot lady didn't say shit, Because God
Speaker 2: wouldn't that be a plot twist if they like, if
Speaker 2: she's like, okay, I'll be your savior.
Speaker 3: Yeah, but my question is is Day going to go
Speaker 3: try to track her down now using his escape route
Speaker 3: and go after her, try to get her memory back.
Speaker 3: We know that possibilities out there.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 3: He also suggested that they put their fingers in their
Speaker 3: little buttoles. What do you miss that line?
Speaker 2: Yeah?
Speaker 3: He said, if you're gonna he's talking when they're in
Speaker 3: the throne room, huh said, if we're gonna poke hole
Speaker 3: and things, I was just starting with your little buttholes.
Speaker 3: At least you get some pleasure out of it.
Speaker 2: Oh he said that, Oh my god, that's funny. Who's
Speaker 2: poking holes and things? Okay, that's interesting. I think that
Speaker 2: should be your outline.
Speaker 3: So there was a party.
Speaker 2: On the Pleasure Planet cling on what's that planet called?
Speaker 2: It's what the keke Kegan Cake Calgan. The Pleasure Planet
Speaker 2: has parties. What a novelty. What was weird was that
Speaker 2: there was a young person drinking. Yeah, that was you know,
Speaker 2: like holy shit, like another level of like just evil
Speaker 2: added to the mule. Like I mean he was evil already.
Speaker 2: We we know that he's a bad guy, But to
Speaker 2: bring a child to that environment and let them drink
Speaker 2: and encourage them to drink, I just can't. I can't,
Speaker 2: I can't. I hate this guy so much. I hate
Speaker 2: him so much, and he's so scary. And I told
Speaker 2: you that guy from the Foundation was from Second Foundation.
Speaker 3: I still don't think that's true. We saw him in
Speaker 3: the first episode.
Speaker 2: But he has brain powers. Yes, that's not part of
Speaker 2: the Foundation. That's part of foundation too. We need to
Speaker 2: rewatch all the episodes.
Speaker 3: In the first episode, he was with the original Foundation
Speaker 3: talking to their mayor and stuff and oh yeah, Craters
Speaker 3: and the other Mallow.
Speaker 2: I just don't. I cannot believe that there is somebody
Speaker 2: with special abilities in this the first Foundation. It's very
Speaker 2: hard to believe that. I associate that purely with the
Speaker 2: Second Foundation because that's what they've cultivated and what they've encouraged.
Speaker 2: So I don't know. I'm confused. I'm confused. Why would
Speaker 2: they would give this character those special abilities? And then
Speaker 2: he approaches the mule, and the mule clocks him and
Speaker 2: he's like, who's Gail Dornick? Tell me more and he's like,
Speaker 2: fuck that, And then his eyeball got dirty and he left.
Speaker 3: Yeah, so I don't know, we didn't get much of him, No,
Speaker 3: Von Pritchard's that really understand? Like does he know Gail?
Speaker 2: Well, everybody in the Foundation knows Gail.
Speaker 3: Knows of her, but I don't think they know that
Speaker 3: she's out there living briefing because the First Foundation does
Speaker 3: not know of the Second Foundation, right and Gail wants
Speaker 3: to keep it that way, and.
Speaker 2: In her visions, the mule is asking her where is
Speaker 2: the Second Foundation? So sorry that was love, Yeah, because
Speaker 2: they're the threat to him. Yeah, So when is he
Speaker 2: going to find out about the Second Foundation to look
Speaker 2: for it and seek it out? Is the cool? Like?
Speaker 2: That is a question that's I think a good one
Speaker 2: to have at this point right now. But I'm confused
Speaker 2: about his allegiance because of his abilities.
Speaker 3: Well, and I think I'll do more research. Well, then
Speaker 3: I'll do like a book talk thing here at the
Speaker 3: end to go into some of these characters and with
Speaker 3: how their roles are in the books. That'll be buttentially spoilery,
Speaker 3: So if anyone doesn't want to hear that, they don't
Speaker 3: have to listen to that. But the party goes on
Speaker 3: after Han Pritcher leaves as a beta and Torrin decide
Speaker 3: to make themselves useful and investigate the Mule and his musician.
Speaker 2: Right the hobo mellow in them came out the descendants.
Speaker 2: They're like, oh, we need to figure out what Pritcher
Speaker 2: couldn't and they split up and they steal his musician
Speaker 2: and then he gets flayed.
Speaker 3: H that was gross.
Speaker 2: That was disgusting, and ah, oh oh it would it
Speaker 2: should have been more bloody. Honestly, your hand whenever you
Speaker 2: get a little cut. I've cut myself with a potato
Speaker 2: peeler before. That's why it felt so viscerle to be
Speaker 2: way more blood would have come out, way more. It
Speaker 2: should have been way bloodier. But I think this show
Speaker 2: is trying to like not be that kind of show
Speaker 2: right where it's like body Horror. But I think it's
Speaker 2: like touching, like it's flirting with it. When it comes
Speaker 2: to the Mule. I think that's like a very interesting
Speaker 2: choice because I think it elicits terror and fear, and
Speaker 2: like Body Horror kind of does that, like whenever you
Speaker 2: see like somebody getting flayed, you're definitely going to have
Speaker 2: like a gut reaction. But I thought he was very
Speaker 2: clever when he's got his like little cameras and he's
Speaker 2: like flash, so he was like surprised and couldn't concentrate
Speaker 2: on making him one of his many victims. Yeah, that
Speaker 2: was very clever. And the girl just steals the musician.
Speaker 2: It seems like he's a very like tortured musician too,
Speaker 2: in that role that he's playing, In the role he
Speaker 2: plays in a hobo or the mule's camp, it looks
Speaker 2: like it's forced. It's not very happy, which is weird
Speaker 2: because the mule can make him feel like he's happy
Speaker 2: doing something that you can manipulate people into thinking they're happy,
Speaker 2: So why wouldn't you do that? Why wouldn't you do
Speaker 2: that so that he doesn't want to leave? But I
Speaker 2: guess it is established that it's very taxing on him
Speaker 2: to do these little sides chill acts.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and I think he might enjoy torturing people, enjoy
Speaker 3: manipulating people in other ways as well.
Speaker 2: Yeah, but I'm glad they escaped. That was very harrowing.
Speaker 2: I'm very glad they escaped. And the what an icon.
Speaker 2: She had one dress and she pushes a button and
Speaker 2: then it like transforms into another dress. Even before she
Speaker 2: went to the concert. The party that is so cunt.
Speaker 2: Like that is that is such a like famous, like
Speaker 2: like a femme presentation of like power and like status.
Speaker 3: You got to have a reveal.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and he's not wearing a shirt. He's just like chill.
Speaker 2: He's like, yeah, I don't wear a shirt. He carries
Speaker 2: like a jacket over his shoulder. And I thought they
Speaker 2: were going to have more interaction with that spy guy.
Speaker 2: I thought I was going to be a little more interesting,
Speaker 2: but it was just very flash in the pan and
Speaker 2: then he's out and then we don't see from him again.
Speaker 2: So I'm very interested in the next episode that we
Speaker 2: see where he goes or what he reports or whatever.
Speaker 3: Yeah, because he just had to get the heck out
Speaker 3: of there. M That's all that happened, right.
Speaker 2: Well, Mule took a call from Day and Don, Don
Speaker 2: and Dusk and he seemed very bothered. He's like, what
Speaker 2: do you want. I'm in the middle of it murdering people. Yeah,
Speaker 2: because Don, for the life of him, is trying to
Speaker 2: come to some agreement to try to control the Mule,
Speaker 2: and it's just he's not succeeding on any fronts, it seems.
Speaker 3: Yeah, And I think like he wanted that meeting to
Speaker 3: help give him the grounds to install that blockade or
Speaker 3: whatever they're talking about.
Speaker 2: Mm hmmenclosure and the screaming in the background. That's fucked.
Speaker 2: That's so fucked. He's like, oh, are you busy? What
Speaker 2: was that? I don't worry about it, but.
Speaker 3: Yeah, the mule is on the tape, as they say,
Speaker 3: so on the board, on the board. I don't want
Speaker 3: anyone's going to do next. I'm excited, right.
Speaker 2: I hope that guy gets his sick daughter to be
Speaker 2: on sick although, like, what kind of illness does she have?
Speaker 2: It's very vague. Are her kidneys shutting down? Is she
Speaker 2: just got like a flue that won't go away? She
Speaker 2: missing a limb? What's going on? Why she's so sick?
Speaker 2: What's her diagnosis?
Speaker 3: I don't know.
Speaker 2: Was it affecting her activities of daily living or what?
Speaker 2: Because I feel like disability or illness is it necessarily
Speaker 2: a death sentence and the idea of like making somebody
Speaker 2: better can sometimes be toxic to the humanity of the
Speaker 2: person right better? How I don't know, I need more info.
Speaker 3: Do you know who your Astral Queen is?
Speaker 1: Astral Queen who was the stand out character in the episode.
Speaker 2: I think it's gonna be down Don Don Don Don Don.
Speaker 2: He wore a fake mustache and a little go tea
Speaker 2: and went to the tea house and met with Gail,
Speaker 2: and he was pushing his pieces on the board, trying
Speaker 2: so hard to get his queen the mule. So I'm
Speaker 2: gonna go for Don, he was like. And then he
Speaker 2: had his drink with his brothers. I thought they were
Speaker 2: gonna trick him and be like, it's truth sirum. And
Speaker 2: then he like tells everybody that he's been talking to Gail.
Speaker 2: I thought that was worth that was going.
Speaker 3: Yeah, he's He's really good in this episode. Yeah, probably
Speaker 3: the most central character of it, to be honest.
Speaker 2: Yeah, he was in it through the whole thing.
Speaker 3: Gail was really cool, like I said earlier, But I
Speaker 3: think I also want to choose brother Don just for
Speaker 3: everything he was doing and all the cards he was playing,
Speaker 3: and he's doing his best thing it. Yeah, all right,
Speaker 3: As I said, I'm gonna do a little bit of
Speaker 3: a spoilery book talk thing here, So if you don't
Speaker 3: want to hear anything that might potentially be where the
Speaker 3: series is going, then you are free to leave and
Speaker 3: we'll see you next time for season three, episode four,
Speaker 3: the Stress of her regard, Let's put our.
Speaker 2: Living stereo stylists in this.
Speaker 1: Group Grace for impact. Spoilers ahead. If you haven't read
Speaker 1: the book series, now maybe the time to say goodbye.
Speaker 1: Remember you can contact us at Spacingoutpod at gmail dot com,
Speaker 1: find us on social media, share your thoughts and be
Speaker 1: a part of the discussion. Spoilers in five, four, three
Speaker 1: two one.
Speaker 3: All right, So I've been reading these books, the Foundation series,
Speaker 3: and at this point I've read six of the seven books,
Speaker 3: and there's things that have come up in the later
Speaker 3: books that I didn't think we're going to have any
Speaker 3: connection to the TV series, since the TV series is
Speaker 3: really covering the original trilogy. But in the book, I
Speaker 3: just read like the mrzles in it as a character
Speaker 3: who is a robot, which I thought the Merzl was
Speaker 3: unique to the show, but yeah, apparently not. It's a
Speaker 3: male character, as many of them are in the books. Rach,
Speaker 3: remember Rach from season one, Gil's boyfriend, Harry's kind of somewhat.
Speaker 2: Sun Oh, yeah, the one who killed him.
Speaker 3: Yeah, Rach is a character in the books, and I
Speaker 3: think he's a pretty young kid, but he basically is
Speaker 3: he gets picked up and kind of adopted by Harry
Speaker 3: Selden as Harry Selden is trying to work on psychohistry.
Speaker 3: But so Han Pritcher in the books is from the
Speaker 3: First Foundation and he gets manipulated by the Mule and
Speaker 3: is like full on searching for the Second Foundation on
Speaker 3: behalf of a mule.
Speaker 2: Ah, that's why you're so sure he's from the First
Speaker 2: Foundation too, partially.
Speaker 3: Yeah. And then so Beta and Torn are also in
Speaker 3: the books. They are not the sentence of Mallow that's
Speaker 3: added for the show, but Beta is actually like a
Speaker 3: big part of the Mule's downfall. So girl power, and
Speaker 3: since they're setting them up as these like kind of
Speaker 3: influencer characters that like you don't expect much from, I
Speaker 3: think that might be an interesting way to work go
Speaker 3: on the show. But I believe, I believe she's like
Speaker 3: in a relationship with the Mule, but she is not
Speaker 3: under his.
Speaker 2: Powers, like she's immune.
Speaker 3: I don't know she's immune or he just refused to
Speaker 3: manipulate her. And it comes from so this this musician character,
Speaker 3: the magnificent character. This is hard for you to remember.
Speaker 3: I believe in the books the Mule is undercover as
Speaker 3: that character. Oh, and is working alongside doctor ebling Me,
Speaker 3: which is doctor Bashir's character, to look for the second foundation.
Speaker 3: And then Beta is there too, And because she treats
Speaker 3: the Mule just as like a normal person, in care
Speaker 3: so much for him that like he doesn't want to
Speaker 3: manipulate her or anything he likes before she realizes that
Speaker 3: he is the Mule. Oh, yes, I don't know if
Speaker 3: that makes sense, but.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I get it. Interesting, interesting, interesting. I am very
Speaker 2: interested to see what happens with the Mule and this
Speaker 2: musician and these influencers and them getting away and seeing
Speaker 2: the depth of his power and cruelty firsthand and living,
Speaker 2: because it feels like anybody who experiences his cruelty doesn't
Speaker 2: get to live, or they are living near him in fear,
Speaker 2: like the Palace people like it. Probably signed NDA's or something,
Speaker 2: because I think ultimately he wants to be seen as
Speaker 2: a charismatic leader.
Speaker 3: Yeah, but since they seem to have made Magnificent a
Speaker 3: separate character, I don't know like where that arc is going.
Speaker 2: Mm hmm.
Speaker 3: And as I mentioned the you know, there's not a
Speaker 3: lot of strong female characters in those books, especially in
Speaker 3: the first trial. The original trilogy, but Beta is perhaps
Speaker 3: the exception to that. She comes in I think in
Speaker 3: the third novel and is actually like a really fleshed
Speaker 3: out character. Oh and then so Mysogen, that's the place
Speaker 3: where Song is from. That that is a location in
Speaker 3: the book. I just read Prelude to Foundations, a prequel book,
Speaker 3: and it is like a very isolated They very clearly
Speaker 3: say that, like they're not religious, but they do have
Speaker 3: this kind of temple thing that has an old robot
Speaker 3: in it.
Speaker 2: But oh my god, do you think there's going to
Speaker 2: be a second robot in the show. Maybe, but maybe
Speaker 2: not as fancy as Dramasol Demersal, Demersal, I'm excited. Oh
Speaker 2: my god.
Speaker 3: But the in the book, the Misogen sector, they everyone
Speaker 3: there post puberty is completely hairless, like they go under
Speaker 3: I think, like a surgery to be completely hairless, and
Speaker 3: they're grossed out by the outsiders with hair.
Speaker 2: Really interesting. I wouldn't mind being completely hairless, but I
Speaker 2: feel like I'd still want to wear a wig if
Speaker 2: it was cool enough out or do what those ladies
Speaker 2: who are in chemo and go bald, they like, get
Speaker 2: like Hannah tattoos on their head. I'd get like a
Speaker 2: tattoo on my head to decorate it, because I feel
Speaker 2: like that's a lot of a lot of skin up there.
Speaker 3: So I mean, maybe looking further in the show's future
Speaker 3: if it goes on for several more seasons. This kind
Speaker 3: of the search for robots is also kind of tied
Speaker 3: into their search for Earth as the original planet. But
Speaker 3: how are all these planets were descended from? Oh okay,
Speaker 3: kind of like the myth of Earth kind of like Battlestar,
Speaker 3: Like it's kind of an idea that people don't really
Speaker 3: believe to be true, or it's too messy and obscured
Speaker 3: to actually research or anything.
Speaker 2: They a drumasol. Demerzol also mentioned Earth in this episode
Speaker 2: when she talked about giraffes and the pictograms and all that,
Speaker 2: So that was interesting. Yeah, Well, I'm excited. I hope
Speaker 2: that this show is able to know when it's gonna end.
Speaker 2: Like a lot of shows sometimes like they don't know
Speaker 2: that they're in their final season and they write something
Speaker 2: that doesn't feel complete, and that's very frustrating as a viewer.
Speaker 3: Yeah, so hopefully, because I feel like season two did
Speaker 3: a good job of like closing off the story arcs
Speaker 3: I mean there's some some questions out there, but not
Speaker 3: to the point where like I feel betrayed by not
Speaker 3: getting a follow up to it. So hopefully this season
Speaker 3: will kind of do that same thing, right.
Speaker 2: It's just so hard when you don't know how many
Speaker 2: seasons you're gonna get outright, Like they should just say,
Speaker 2: like I think Breaking Bad had a very good way
Speaker 2: of looking at it, where they're like, this is what
Speaker 2: we're doing, this is the story, This is how many
Speaker 2: seasons we need, this is all we're done doing. We're done.
Speaker 2: And then we got lucky that we got a prequel
Speaker 2: with Better Call Saul that was also very like encapsulated,
Speaker 2: like this is the story we're telling, this is how
Speaker 2: many seasons we're getting. And maybe they had that advantage
Speaker 2: for being on a network like AMC. It's hard to
Speaker 2: say how fixed or how dependable or reliable a season
Speaker 2: on Apple TV is going to be.
Speaker 3: So yeah, because I mean this Apple TV is they're
Speaker 3: kind of making sci fi one of their bigger niches. Like,
Speaker 3: I mean, they've got Severance and Foundation, Silo and for
Speaker 3: all Mankind, but Foundation is probably like the most like
Speaker 3: hard sci fi doesn't have the I think like the
Speaker 3: most like the mainstream appeal that some of the others
Speaker 3: like it's easier for a general audience to just get
Speaker 3: into Yeah.
Speaker 2: You have to see that first season and it's really tough.
Speaker 2: So I hope they're able to tell their story in
Speaker 2: a way that feels complete to what they're creating, because
Speaker 2: that's so hard with television to say we're done, and
Speaker 2: then sometimes like they jump the shark fucking Game of Thrones,
Speaker 2: Like Game of Thrones could have ended when Danaris like
Speaker 2: freed the slaves. I don't know.
Speaker 3: So here's what the initial pitch was, So David S. Goyer,
Speaker 3: who has now left the show, so.
Speaker 2: The initial pitch might be out the door.
Speaker 3: Yeah. With foundation, we can tell the story hopefully over
Speaker 3: the course of eighty episodes or eighty hours, so that
Speaker 3: would mean eight seasons. Yeah, I think that is asking
Speaker 3: a lot for a show that is, you know.
Speaker 2: Getting cleared a season by season.
Speaker 3: Yeah, And I just like, I know it has a
Speaker 3: decent number of fans, but it's not like wildly popular.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's not like this World.
Speaker 3: Isn't Severance or something that like everyone's talking about around
Speaker 3: the water cooler, and I know it sounds like there
Speaker 3: was a lot of budgeting disputes for this season. Yeah,
Speaker 3: so I mean maybe if they're just going to move
Speaker 3: forward with lower production cost, I.
Speaker 2: Think they can afford that. I wouldn't mind, like having
Speaker 2: less spaceships. I don't think the show is about spaceships,
Speaker 2: you know, And I think that's what costs a lot
Speaker 2: of money, is like rendering and like visual effects and
Speaker 2: all this. And the sets are very lavish too. But
Speaker 2: if we're talking about an empire crumbling, we can destroy that,
Speaker 2: we can scale it back.
Speaker 3: Yeah, really talk about all the locations that they've filmed
Speaker 3: in all these different islands.
Speaker 2: And stuff, like just film in Canada, Bro.
Speaker 3: I mean that might be something that they need to do. Yeah,
Speaker 3: because I mean, because I do love that the show
Speaker 3: looks beautiful and it doesn't look like they're on CGI sets.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 3: I'm sure there's plenty of CGI at work extending and
Speaker 3: manipulating these locations and stuff, but it feels very real
Speaker 3: every time they're outdoors and indoors.
Speaker 2: But most of these I mean, Gale does all of
Speaker 2: her telecasting in a one room and Empires crumbling, like,
Speaker 2: we can we can put we can do things in
Speaker 2: a stage. Bro, I don't think we need to go
Speaker 2: to Finland every time we need to film the Foundation
Speaker 2: or whatever, But I don't know. I really do hope
Speaker 2: that they're able to tell their story without any issues
Speaker 2: to completion or to a satisfying end. Maybe not necessarily completion,
Speaker 2: but so far, so good. I really like it.
Speaker 3: Yeah, So next time we'll be season three, episode four,
Speaker 3: and we'll see you for that, And thank you for
Speaker 3: spacing out with us. To remember, all empires fall, they
Speaker 3: need no help from us.
Speaker 1: Thank you for spacing out with BB and Jason. You
Speaker 1: can help us out by subscribing and leaving a positive
Speaker 1: rating or review. Remember you can contact us through email
Speaker 1: or social media. Next time we will cover Foundations season three,
Speaker 1: episode four, The Stress of Her Regard. We hope you
Speaker 1: will join us