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Speaker 1: Of prerogatives that are growing, but prerogatives that are growing

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doesn't necessarily get you Vatican one. And the fact that

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an Orthodox historian or a Russian historian says, okay, you

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could deduce this from Leo does not equate to Leo

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taught this or had this. It's a logical deduction from Leo.

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But you notice when Eric read the quote, he gave

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the impression that the Orthodox are basically saying that Leo

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thought that he had Vatican one powers. No, no, Vatican one

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could be deduced from that. But I guarantee you, and

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I'm not positive, but I don't know these obscure people

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he's referencing. I guarantee you that they don't believe the

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Vatican one position unless they're radical ecumenists and they want

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some kind of reunion, which is possible. But if they're Orthodox,

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they probably don't believe that. So Eric, stacking again with

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quote minds from people who don't believe Vatican one.

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Speaker 2: Well, that claim was accepted by Saint Cyril of Alexandria,

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the entire council, and should be accepted by both Catholics

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and Orthodox. Doctor George Demiccopolis, a Greek Orthodox scholar.

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Speaker 1: By the way, this is all again still ambiguous, because

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that Peter judges and his successors, or that Peter continues

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to work through the Sea of Rome. None of that

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equates to the outlandish claims of attican Ie about infallibility

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and that it's this ex cathedral power. So again, the

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quotes from the Orthodox people that are conceding that you

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might find a basis for later deductions does not mean

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that therefore the mind of the church at Chalcedon was

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that Leo was ex cathedral teaching ex cathedra. You see,

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you see how it's like it's a bunch of non

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sequiturs that Eric is trying to construct a story or

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a narrative to prove.

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Speaker 2: Of The Patricians said that Leo held his tone to

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be the quote measuring stick of Orthodoxy close quote Chalcedon

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can measure up or do nothing at all. Father Richard Price,

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the renowned Patristian scholar, states that Pope Leo understood his

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tone to be quote totally authoritative. He did not believe

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his teaching gained any authority by being approved by an

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ecumenical council close quote.

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Speaker 1: Ah, but wait a minute, Uh, it's a double edged

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sword when these people quote Father Richard Price, because we

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all remember the excellent clippable moment when Reason and Theology

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interviewed Father Richard Price on this very topic. And what

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did Father Richard Price say about the papacy at this time?

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So remember, because Eric's not going to tell you this.

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Who knows if they even kept this interview up. They

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probably probably took it down, but thank god somebody clipped it.

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Let's listen to Father Richard Price himself on their show

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talking to them about how the church viewed the papacy

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of this time.

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Speaker 3: Why did the bishops in Calcidon feel they needed to

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judge Theodore It if Leo had already reinstated.

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Speaker 4: Him, Well.

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Speaker 5: They didn't. They didn't recognize Roman jurisdiction in the Eastern provinces, So, uh,

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there's reinstating for that was not decisive. The decision has

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to be made in the east. The other exposition at

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the council is any interesting one. Uh when the uh

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why did.

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Speaker 3: Why did the bishops in kings more time I feel

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they needed to judge Theodore it if Leo had already

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reinstated him.

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Speaker 6: Well.

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Speaker 5: They didn't. They didn't recognize Roman jurisdiction in the Eastern provinces.

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Speaker 1: So now do you understand that's the guy Aburah is quoting,

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who literally contradicts what Eric is saying about what the

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bishops that Chalcedon understood about the Roman bishop.

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Speaker 2: Not least expressing his supremacy in doctrine. Leo overturned the

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sentences against Eastern bishops who were condemned at the Robert

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Senate of Ephesus in four forty nine. This is followed

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up by the Council of Calcedon, wherein the tone of

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Leo was widely received by the right believing bishops of

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both East and West as the authoritative voice of Peter.

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This council from the very first session, except that the

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Tome as part and parts of the Church's dogmatic confessions

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of faith.

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Speaker 4: Not everyone held that view, however.

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Speaker 2: Unfortunately, resistance to the Tome and the papacy increased, and

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new emperors devised an alternative plan to secure peace in

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the Empire. The first strategy was to throw Leo's Tome

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in Chalcedon to the periphery with the imperial edict known

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as the Hinnaticon. Chalcedon became either a good option or

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an obstacle. This was supported by Emperor Zeno and Acacius,

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the patriarch of Constantinople. Pope Saint Felix the Third, on

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the basis of his apostolic Acturitas, issued a universal commun

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excommunication of Acacius and all who held communion with him.

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This started the Accacion Schism in forty four to eight d.

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This demonstrates a claim of immediate jurisdiction, since it was

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a judgment decided by the pope and resting upon his

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singular apostolic authority. In Saint Peter, Pope Saint Galicias defended

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the singular right of the Roman pontiff to issue such

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a condemnation on the grounds of his immediate commission from Christ.

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Through Peter, the world renowned Greek Byzantinis Milton Anesauce summons

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up the Roman view.

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Speaker 1: The byzantinist is summing up the Roman view in the

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thought of Okay, I'm gonna have to put this slow

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motion man on like this is just taken forever. Let's

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put him on a double speed because he talks in

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freaking slow motion. Let's see, let's put him at point

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seventy five. Would that make him normal speeds, believing, Oh, no, way,

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I did point. I mean, I'm meant to do one

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point seventy five. I will be here and told freaking

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Christmas if I do that. With him talking, let's go

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to one point seven five.

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Speaker 2: That Christ has delegated to the See of Rome supreme

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authority over the whole Church, with power to govern in

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all questions concerning doctrine and discipline. Galazius hell says kin

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of Stass, the Pope, on his own initiative could make

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decisions binding upon the entire Church without recourse to a council.

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For in his judgment, the See of Rome constituted the

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highest tribunal in the Christian Church. Its decisions were irreversible,

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and itself could not be judged by anyone close quote

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Milton Kinastas PRETII.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, but the idea that the First Sea can be

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judged by no one ends up being a forgery, which

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is still cited in It's a Samakian forgery, and it's

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still cited in Roman Catholic canon law, so they're still

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citing known forgeries. By the way, I just keep that

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in mind.

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Speaker 2: Chichty in history from Harvard University and was a prestige

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of Professor Prestigius, professor of classics in Yzantine history. While

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many Greeks in the East were questioning Calcidon at this time,

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Rome held ferns to its classical narrative Pope Saint Simplicius vanity.

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Speaker 1: By by the way, this is an interesting strategy because

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everybody realizes that we could go and find many Roman

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Catholic theologians and historians that disagree with Catholic dogma. Couldn't win,

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couldn't we We could pile up James Martin's quotes, we

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could pile up Hans Kum quote, we could pile up

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Skilbec's quotes, and all of those quotes would give the

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impression that Roman Catholic theologians universally recognized Orthodox arguments. That's

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the flimsiness of this approach of Eric. He's literally just

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stacking a bunch of quotes of Orthodox historians renowned Byzantinists

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admitting this or that supposed Catholic argument, which again, admitting

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that argument doesn't mean that they're admitting the Catholic positions.

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They're just saying that you could perhaps find the seeds

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or the traces of the papacy in Leo. But remember

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Satis Cognatium and Postra Attornis of Vatican One do not

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argue that you can find the seeds of it or

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the logic of it is deducible from Leo. They argue

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that from the earliest days, prior to Leo, all of

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these Vatican One prerogatives were there and known by the Church.

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So Eric again is moving it to papal minimalism, away

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from what Satis Cognitium and Pastertonis actually say. And that's

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the necessary strategy of what Rome has to do that

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these pap apologists have to do. By the way, you've

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you noticed no one of their whole school or their ilk,

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none of them, not one of them except Chris Plants.

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And I'll give Chris Plants, who has a very small channel,

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I'll give him credit. He at least tried to address

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my dogmatic contradiction argument from the temporal supremacy of the

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Roman bishop. And then the post Vatican two teaching. Does

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everybody remember that when I tried to debate with Abara,

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he would not debate me on pre Vatican two and

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post Vatican two teaching. Does everybody remember that.

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Speaker 6: We can do that some other time, Jay, Right now,

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I'm going to stack up papacy arguments for the next

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seventy hours.

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Speaker 1: No, he would not debate that, and he will never

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debate it. When I originally wanted to debate Eric years

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ago before I went on their stream, I want to

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debate that topic pre impost Vatican two contradictions. The only

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thing Eric will debate is these hyper precise quote mind

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areas of fifth, sixth, seven, eighth century, because it's very effective,

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as Father Degan and I pointed out, at duping people

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into thinking that, oh, well, here's a bunch of quotes.

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Look at all these historians, like I guess the Roman

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positions streue. But wait a minute, are you sure you

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want to go this route? Do you know what you're

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buying into? I made these mistakes I bought into I

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bought into quote minds, I bought into forge quotes in

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my twenties, and in about five to ten years you realize,

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as many of the Roman Catholics are starting to realize,

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like Chris Plants, oh it turns out you got to

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also defend all these other things, like when I'm signed them.

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It's kind of like a cult where you realize, Oh

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wait a minute, I actually have to defend you know,

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I have to defend the theatons and you know all

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the scientific It's like, would you learn the inner secrets

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like scientific or Mormons? We just believe in Jesus and

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then like five years later, I'm defending celestial space sex

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and space babies. That's the real inner Mormon teachings. Right. Well,

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guess what you don't get this minimalist position of Roman Catholicism.

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If you're gonna be honest with history when ONEm signed

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them dogmatizes the temporal supremaci, the rouma, you also got

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to defend. That makes sense of that. That's why these

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people become papal lawyers. Why do I keep wiping my

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nose because I have allergies? Or you can choose to

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believe that I'm just sitting here snorting coke all day.

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Whatever you want to believe, go ahead, clip it and

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expose me.

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Speaker 2: Bro exposed pure Christian things, permit.

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Speaker 6: I fundly got proof. The Jay's a bad person. He

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admitted doone. He's stream that he's doing piles of cocaine

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like Tony Montan.

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Speaker 2: We pershaft in the Latin remains quote in the successes

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of Peter, upon whom the Lord imposed the care of

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the whole sheep fold, whom he promised he would not fail,

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even to the end of the world.

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Speaker 4: Close quote.

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Speaker 2: To heal the Eastern Schism, a new pope, Hormiestas drew

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up a formula like bells. The terms were, among other things,

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vocable ascent to Leo's home and the removal of certain

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names from the turgical commitment.

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Speaker 1: I would like to add too that everyone, I'm sure

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most of the audience is aware that Eric Ubara has himself,

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since twenty eighteen, walked back many of his views on Francis,

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and Eric has admitted many of the disastrous policies and

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actions and teachings of Francis. So keep in mind Eric

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is somebody who is claiming all this stuff about history,

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but himself thinks Francis has made terrible, horrible mistakes. I

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don't know if he thinks he's a heretic or whatever,

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but Eric's hoole model has been in the last few

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years to make concessions. There's all these concessions, right, we.

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Speaker 6: Go to concede tudor Orthodox and debt and loose and debt.

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Speaker 1: Well, that's all his methodology, and it's his own Vatican

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that has made the concessions, like at the Alexandria document

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where you have the admissions of most of the Orthodox arguments,

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or at the Chieatei document. What is the Chieti document, which,

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by the way, trump's the authority of Eric Obara in

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the Roman Catholic world, because these are papally approved documents.

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What does Chidi say the very thing I argued to

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Ibarra in our debate. Remember when I made these points

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in the debate with Ibarra and he dissed them like

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that is not true. When I said, well, Sartaka was

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not the only model of apple addriss you could appeal

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to other patriarchates does not prove j What does it

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say Sartika was received at Trollo. The Canons of Sartika

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determined that a bishop who had been condemned could appeal

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to the Bishop of Rome, and that the Bishop of Rome,

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if he deemed it appropriate, could order what a retrial

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not an exca theater's statement, to be conducted by bishops

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in the province. Appeals regarding these matters were also made

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to Constantinople. The very thing I said in the bar

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debate that all the Romancllolics oars, making doars, making up crap.

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Did the off I said is in your own freaking documents.

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Roman Catholics literally act like Muslims in debates and in

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the especially in the chats, so there's no distinguishing Muslim

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chatters and Roman Cology chatters and debates. Such appeals to

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these major SE's were always treated in a what autocratic

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papal weight, no, in a synodal way. So guys, look,

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you don't have to get PhDs in history. The Roman

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Vatican freaking websites are admitting the points, and you got

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this gigantic goober trying to prop up this system which

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has admitted everything that we've been talking about. So just

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keep in mind the basics. Don't get lost in the

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smoke in the mirrors of the thousands of quotes. The

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basics are that eight he says that there was no

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What does it say the Bishop of Rome did not

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exercise conogical authority over the churches of the East. Can

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you read this? Do you want me to read it

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to you again? The Bishop of Rome did not exercise

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canonical authority over the churches of the East. The Bishop

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of Rome did not exercise canonical authority over the churches

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of the East. The Bishop of Rome did not exercise

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canonical authority over the churches of the East. Roman Catholics,

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hard headed goobers, Can you understand? Do you see what

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that says your own documents?

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Speaker 6: Goofballs?

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Speaker 1: The Bishop of Rome did not exercise canonical authority over

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the churches of the East. Do you need to hear

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it again? Oh, you hard headed goobers, Eric, take the

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sinabon out of your ears. The Bishop of Rome did

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not exercise canonical authority over the Church of the East.

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What did Richard Price say in their interview on their channel?

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They did not think that Leo had universal jurisdiction.

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Speaker 6: But don't count because that's a document that is not infallible.

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Speaker 4: It don't count, especially accacious.

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Speaker 2: More importantly, in this formula, he echoes his predecessor simplicious.

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He was profession in the formula that the Christian religion

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always remains pure in Rome because of a permanent promise

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made by Christ to build his church upon Peter. Consequently,

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you see what the Romans he was indistinguished by the

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way I.

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Speaker 1: Ask any of them when they are they going to

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deal with the temporal supremacy argument. None of them have

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dealt with it, none of them except Chris Plants props

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to him. If you want the basic argument, here is

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the video I made. This one dogmatic contradiction ends Roman Catholicism.

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Here you go right here. You want one easy matter.

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There's many, by the way, This is just one easy one.

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Here's one. You used to have to believe that the

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pope was a world emperor to be saved, and you

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had to accept that. Now you don't. Therefore, Roman Catholic

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dogma contradicts and changes. Do you want? Is that not

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easy enough for you? Is that not clear enough? Remember

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Abara said that it could be one contradiction that shows

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if I recall how he conceded.

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Speaker 4: That community with the church.

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Speaker 2: Commenting on the patrying contents of the formula, the orthoxdyologian

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father Alexander Schaman said, quote, the whole essence of the

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papal claims cannot be more clearly expressed than in this

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like Bellish document which was imposed upon the Eastern bishops.

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Close quote in Oxford Press, most recent monograph on Byzantine

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history by Greek historian and classics professor Anthony Cayl Dellis.

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He states the following quote. For the East to return

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to communion with Rome, wall its bishops must have been

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to the pope close quote. Speaking about the formula form

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Mistess Cayle Deallis calls the formula a binding document that

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a friends quote Rome's supremacy over the church close quote,

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requiringques obedience to the supring pontiff and the universal close quote.

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Speaker 1: This is interesting because this is literally all of the

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stuff that Ubi and Ibara have been debating for many

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years now. So it's odd to me that Eric went

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just went with this, But I guess what else are

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you gonna do, right, I mean, really to try to

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try to demonstrate the papacy. You've really only got these

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examples that Eric's using here, right, that's really your best case.

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But it's odd because they've been going back and forth

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about these very things for years. But I guess again,

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perhaps that Borrow is just resting on people not going

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and checking this. But here is Ubi's article from twenty

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twenty two about the formula of hormisdas if you want

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to watch this. But I'm sure Ubi's gonna mention this

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when he gets to his I don't know. I don't

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know what, because you never know exactly what your opponent's

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gonna mention in their opening statement. But UBI probably thought

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he would bring these up.

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Speaker 2: Another Greek Orthodox Exanthantus Peter shall run it. He says,

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quote acceptance of this formula ment of course, absolute submission

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to the Pope close quote. Doctor Joseph Farrell, author of

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the multi volume God History and Dialectic, writes that the

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formula of hormisis quote demanded the complete submission of the

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Eastern Church of the papacy close quote volper Men's medival.

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Perhaps the formalist Count of Dony.

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Speaker 1: Doesn't everybody recognize that this is already going on with

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Pope Victor. I mean, Pope Victor threatened to excommunicate the

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entire East over the court doesseminarian controversy. And nobody believes

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that quote Pope Victor's argument or claim is true because

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he said it. In fact, sat Aaronaeus rebuked Pope Victor,

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the very guy that Roman Catholics quote mine to try

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to say that he believed in the Vatican one people's

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supremacy view. Because Aeronaus in against Heresies, uses Rome as

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an example of aboupsol succession. They leave out the fact

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that Irenaeus rebukes Pope Victor over this idea that he

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could excommunicate all of the East. So again, the fact

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that people do these things does not prove that they're correct.

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Speaker 2: You see, it's today like Bellus begins with Matthew sixteen,

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and I tell you you were Peter on this rock

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will build my church. In other words, since Rome was

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regarded as the See of Peter on Rome, the church

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was built based on this ideological foundation that, like Bellus

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claims not only the papacy too.

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Speaker 1: But remember Rome is not just the see of Peter.

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In fact, in Irenaeus himself, the greatness of Rome is

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that it's doubly apostolic. It's the see of Peter and Paul. Likewise,

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there are three patrine seas as late as Gregory the Great,

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Gregory the Great admits in his letters that the patrin

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sea is Rome, Alexandria, and Antioch. Those three seas are

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the patrin seas. So all this proves is an evolving

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idea of Roman prerogative. It does not prove that Vatican

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One is true or was always true in the Church.

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It just proves that Rome gave themselves more and more

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and more prerogatives, which is precisely the Orthodox.

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Speaker 2: Position in lapisols eccections since the time of the Apostles,

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but also to be instituted by Christ himself according to

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the New Testament.

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Speaker 4: Close quote.

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Speaker 1: And by the way, if you doubt that that's correct,

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that Rome gave itself more and more and more prerogatives.

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That's why I keep bringing up the temporal supremacy argument,

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because everybody recognizes that this comes to a head in

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the eleventh century. Even the most famous or Roman Catholic

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scholars and historians admit this. So I can play this

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game too. The Vornik, Kongar Sishchensky, who used to be

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Uniate and became Orthodox, they all admit that the eleventh century,

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you're going reforms take the papacy to new unparalleled literal quisants.

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Hoderok heights God in per status. What does that prove?

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Why do I keep bringing that up because it proves

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the point that we make that it's an evolving thing

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of greater and greater prerogatives and power claims over many centuries,

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propped up again by forgeries admitted by these people. That

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proves the evolving claim. You see. And again, remember, these

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people no longer believe that you have to accept the

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temporal supremacy position to be saved. In other words, they

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themselves concede and admit it's an evolving prerogatives claim. And

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if that's admitted, and if that's the case, then everything

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that Abara's argument here falls apart. It doesn't prove anything.

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Man's that just proves what we already all know that

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it evolved.

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Speaker 2: The formula of Hormenistas quote required every bishop to accept

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the papal view on the Christian Church past and faith

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close quote.

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Speaker 4: Doctor clear saw and all.

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Speaker 2: The renowned Patristic scholar writes the following for the Cambridge

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companion to the Age of Justinian quote for the Pope,

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the union meant that the new emperor fully accepted Roman

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authority in all ecclesiastical matters, disciplinary as well as doctrinal

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close quote. In his Princeton monograph on Western Authority, the

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Anglican priest scholar call If Morson states that the formula

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equated Roman communion and communion with Christ as quote identical

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close quote. And that's precisely the case.

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Speaker 1: Again, I don't know why he's stacking this with Anglican quotes. Now,

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like anybody gives a crap about what an Anglican historian

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says about the Roman's Like, I mean, he's probably quoting

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some ecumenists who wants to go back to Rome. So

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this is a very subtle, kind of slimy tactic.

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Speaker 2: By the way, Forrmeistas was not merely steement could pass,

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but also to the future, requiring all the subscribers to

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avoid the communion of anybody who would deviate from Rome,

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even in the future. And yet it was accepted by

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all Easterners who came into unity with Rome. Pope Pormisdas's

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son who later became Pope Saint Silverius, wrote this in

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the epithaph for his father quote, Greece defeated, So like.

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Speaker 1: Half the people don't know what I'm talking about. The

402
00:23:59,559 --> 00:24:03,079
quisat Hottarok is from Doune. It's the universe's super being.

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It's the prophecy about when the super being comes, he

404
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will be the god Emperor. Now everybody thinks it's Poultrdes.

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It doesn't end up being Polytrdes. It ends up being

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his worm son or grandson or whatever. But Quizas Hodak

407
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is a doom reference at Dune. It's a it's a

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joke from Doune, and I always use that to illustrate

409
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the outlandish medieval claims of the papacy after the Grigorn Reforms,

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which everyone admits went into the stratosphere, where he claims

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that he is a world emperor.

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Speaker 6: Do people not know this?

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Speaker 5: Is this?

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Speaker 1: No one knows church history. It's not even controversial. Does

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anyone think that the pope and the first millennium had

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world emperor powers? I don't know anybody who seriously thinks that.

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There are a few trad cats who will actually try

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to defend that ridiculous position, but like nine percent of everyone,

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everyone in the world does not believe that or think that.

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Even in the scholarly world and in the Roman Catholic

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world and in the historians of the church, et cetera.

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Nobody believes that anymore because it was propped up on

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forgeries and it's obviously preposterous. But can you people not

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understand that this was made dogma? To be saved, you

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had to believe this. Do you not understand that? And

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I've had a Roman cop I don't have to believe

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when I'm saying them, you don't have to believe it.

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I mean, he literally excommunicates people that wouldn't believe it.

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There were monarchs and rulers of state that opposed him

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who got excommunicated. I'm talking about the papacy in this

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time period. Go read on him signed them.

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Speaker 2: If you don't know what this is, by Holy power,

433
00:25:52,559 --> 00:25:55,359
submitted herself unto you, happy and having regained her lost faith.

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Close quote the nephew of pot Vigilius. The Roman decon

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Usticus records that twenty five hundred Eastern clergy signed the

436
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Formula of ormist Us. This shows that, no matter what

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resistance there was to papal authority or Leo's tone in

438
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the decades proceeding, the resolution to the schism in the

439
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Formula Formistasis involve a triumph of the primitive Roman view

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of the papacy. The net result is that the antique

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theory of petrine supremacy upheld by Rome had become, at

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least at this moment, externally received by both Calcedonian East

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and Western five nineteen eight eight. Now the three chapters controversy.

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Here we see em Burgerstaian seeking to circumvent the rules

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of the Church in order to enforce his own edicts

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to secure peace in the empire. However, despite his attempt

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to use an ecumenical council without the Bishop of Rome,

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he ended up concerned cornering himself into an admission that

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the papacy is required for any doctrine of discipline to

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be ratified on a universally binding level. Pope Vigilius, despite

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his vacillations, ended up carving out another instance of papal

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supremacy in the midst of Oriental Chao.

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Speaker 1: Keep that in mind, because when Ub brings this up,

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this is going to be a tough point for Eric Borro.

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Speaker 2: The visiting story on Gagilius is one of sainthood and

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divine supremacy. Lastly, during the midst of the Accacian Schism,

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a local dispute in Rome showcases the emergence of the

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claim that the pope can be judged by no one,

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a principle accepted by many saints revered by the Orthodox Church.

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The dispute involved a rivalry to the papal throne between

461
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a certain Laurentius versus Pope Saint Simmachus, among other things.

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The driving force behind The resolution to this Roman schism

463
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was that even if the Roman pontiff were guilty of

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certain crimes, he cannot be judged by any earthly inferior,

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ecclesiastical or secular, precisely because he occupies the authoritative position

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that Jesus Christ gave to Saint Peter, the head of

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the Universal Church. Multiple saints, including Pope Saint Macchus himself,

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Pope Hormistas, who was a deacon notary at the councils

469
00:27:24,720 --> 00:27:26,640
that formulated the principle that the first he is judged

470
00:27:26,640 --> 00:27:29,319
by no one. Saint Inodius of Pavia, Saint Evotus of Malivus,

471
00:27:29,400 --> 00:27:32,200
and Saint Laurentius of Milan all testified to this. A

472
00:27:32,279 --> 00:27:34,960
century later, Pope Saint Gregory the Great, known by the

473
00:27:34,960 --> 00:27:37,839
Greeks as the Dilogist, spoke in favor of Simmachus's side

474
00:27:37,839 --> 00:27:39,960
of this dispute, showing his own belief in the principle

475
00:27:40,000 --> 00:27:41,039
the first Sea is judged by none.

476
00:27:41,640 --> 00:27:43,400
Speaker 4: In conclusion, we see.

477
00:27:43,240 --> 00:27:46,640
Speaker 2: Councils, saints, and academic scholarship testify to the manifestation of

478
00:27:46,680 --> 00:27:50,359
petrine authority over all Christians, its post apostolic perpetuity in

479
00:27:50,400 --> 00:27:53,119
the Roman Sea and its divine protection by Christ's virtue

480
00:27:53,119 --> 00:27:55,279
of his promise to Saint Peter the Apostle.

481
00:27:57,079 --> 00:27:57,680
Speaker 4: Hobfert.

482
00:27:57,920 --> 00:28:03,000
Speaker 1: Yes, all right, so we have essentially Eric picking out

483
00:28:03,119 --> 00:28:05,839
what he thinks for the probably the three strongest examples,

484
00:28:06,720 --> 00:28:09,200
and then we're going to move on to UBI. I've

485
00:28:09,240 --> 00:28:11,839
not heard ubi's opening statement yet, so let's see where

486
00:28:11,960 --> 00:28:14,920
UBI goes with this. I'm hoping that he'll probably go

487
00:28:15,039 --> 00:28:17,559
into some of these articles that you've seen me post

488
00:28:18,279 --> 00:28:20,359
that he wrote back in twenty nineteen. But let's see.

489
00:28:21,039 --> 00:28:23,200
Speaker 4: All right, Thanks very much, Eric, I love body. You

490
00:28:23,279 --> 00:28:25,079
have frimitus re opening statement. Whenever you begin to quick

491
00:28:25,079 --> 00:28:25,440
the time.

492
00:28:25,319 --> 00:28:27,559
Speaker 7: I'm I close enough, yep. And paper premacy is not

493
00:28:27,680 --> 00:28:29,119
our issue, as we agree. The pope was first and

494
00:28:29,160 --> 00:28:31,079
presided in love that he was an archbishop of the world,

495
00:28:31,200 --> 00:28:32,960
and nor is paper supremacy issue. As we agree, the

496
00:28:33,000 --> 00:28:36,279
pope was the highest most supreme bishop who, in fulfilling

497
00:28:36,319 --> 00:28:38,680
the role as a sonodle head, was required to either

498
00:28:38,839 --> 00:28:42,480
ratify or reject the decisions of the synods at which

499
00:28:42,519 --> 00:28:43,279
he presided.

500
00:28:43,759 --> 00:28:48,920
Speaker 1: And we keep in mind that as the pentarchy structure develops,

501
00:28:50,000 --> 00:28:54,400
especially if you have the Sishensky work here, which I

502
00:28:54,440 --> 00:28:58,680
highly recommends. A really good book, the recent publication of

503
00:28:59,400 --> 00:29:02,319
Papa Seing the Orthodox by Edward Sashensky. The chapter on

504
00:29:03,240 --> 00:29:05,359
all of this that they're debating today is really good.

505
00:29:05,440 --> 00:29:06,640
So if you do, if you want kind of a

506
00:29:06,759 --> 00:29:10,000
crash course in a lot of the obscure history and

507
00:29:10,079 --> 00:29:12,640
what they talked about in this debate, I highly highly

508
00:29:12,680 --> 00:29:16,200
recommend the Sashensky book. It's an Oxford publication, so it's

509
00:29:16,240 --> 00:29:21,480
not some you know, random Orthodox publisher, it's it's from

510
00:29:21,559 --> 00:29:26,319
Oxford University, and they go through, you know, pretty much

511
00:29:26,400 --> 00:29:29,079
all of the stuff that is in this debate. In

512
00:29:29,200 --> 00:29:32,160
that chapter, this is a it's called the Church of

513
00:29:32,240 --> 00:29:35,200
Rome in the Patristic era is this chapter. But you'll

514
00:29:35,279 --> 00:29:38,559
notice that by the time of the Council of Trello,

515
00:29:38,839 --> 00:29:41,799
and then Trello is accepted by the sixth and ultimately

516
00:29:41,880 --> 00:29:46,480
the Seventh Council, the patriarchal system was in place, and

517
00:29:48,240 --> 00:29:53,359
as is noted in the pages seven. I say this

518
00:29:53,559 --> 00:29:56,720
because later on in the debate, Ibara is just totally

519
00:29:56,799 --> 00:30:01,119
off base when he says that the the claims about

520
00:30:01,240 --> 00:30:04,240
the need of the patriarchs to sign off on something

521
00:30:04,279 --> 00:30:07,279
to be ecumenical or whatever he says that's not true,

522
00:30:07,720 --> 00:30:10,000
it is true. It's mentioned here on pages one, eighty

523
00:30:10,039 --> 00:30:17,960
six and eighty seven, and this is where he says

524
00:30:18,039 --> 00:30:21,720
that the patriarchal system developed, and eventually they saw that

525
00:30:21,880 --> 00:30:27,440
as necessary for universality and for dogma. Even in the West,

526
00:30:28,359 --> 00:30:33,200
the Pope did not have a problem agreeing with and

527
00:30:33,279 --> 00:30:37,240
assenting to this patriarchal pentarchy type of system. And the

528
00:30:37,319 --> 00:30:41,200
reason I say that, remember Eric tried to frame Vatican

529
00:30:41,319 --> 00:30:46,680
One as if it works with collegiality. But if you remember,

530
00:30:46,839 --> 00:30:50,799
Vatican One actually says that the pope absolutely does not

531
00:30:51,039 --> 00:30:57,079
need the bishops. He can't operate autocratically. Remember that doesn't

532
00:30:57,119 --> 00:31:00,319
fit with pable minimalism. But that's precisely the route Or

533
00:31:00,440 --> 00:31:01,000
tried to take.

534
00:31:01,000 --> 00:31:04,079
Speaker 7: Relationship to the patriarchs was mirrored in the relationship of

535
00:31:04,119 --> 00:31:07,839
a patriarch to the archbishops, an archbishop to the metropolitans,

536
00:31:08,440 --> 00:31:12,119
and a metropolitan to the bishops. Hence the offt us

537
00:31:12,160 --> 00:31:15,240
address for the Pope in the first millennium Archbishop of

538
00:31:15,319 --> 00:31:19,440
the World that was used repeatedly, specifically at Calcidon. In

539
00:31:19,559 --> 00:31:23,160
the canonical literature, it is abundantly clear that the relationship

540
00:31:23,200 --> 00:31:26,000
between each grade of episcopal authority is a mirror of

541
00:31:26,039 --> 00:31:27,920
the relationship below it and.

542
00:31:28,200 --> 00:31:28,839
Speaker 3: Or above it.

543
00:31:29,440 --> 00:31:31,880
Speaker 7: We go over this for roughly forty five minutes in

544
00:31:31,880 --> 00:31:34,880
our very first video responding to the arguments of Erkibara

545
00:31:35,319 --> 00:31:37,000
from May twenty twenty.

546
00:31:37,799 --> 00:31:38,359
Speaker 5: What we do.

547
00:31:38,559 --> 00:31:41,839
Speaker 7: Object to is the Vatican One model of a dictator

548
00:31:42,240 --> 00:31:45,400
who can speak infallibly as he pleases, with no recourse

549
00:31:45,440 --> 00:31:49,079
to any council or any institution, whose whims can become

550
00:31:49,200 --> 00:31:52,839
incontestable decrees, as we recently saw with the Latin Mass,

551
00:31:52,960 --> 00:31:56,960
which sadly is once again been decimated. But that is

552
00:31:57,039 --> 00:31:59,880
a position you must prove existed in the first millennium.

553
00:32:00,519 --> 00:32:02,920
Is a position that even the Pope's hand picked scholars

554
00:32:02,960 --> 00:32:05,559
do not believe existed then, as we've seen from the

555
00:32:05,759 --> 00:32:11,079
revented document, also from Kieti, also from Alexandria. Further, you

556
00:32:11,240 --> 00:32:13,880
bear the double burden of providing evidence that the Pope

557
00:32:13,960 --> 00:32:17,559
could and did speak infallibly on matters of faith and

558
00:32:17,640 --> 00:32:20,440
morals with the intent to bind the faithful, without the

559
00:32:20,519 --> 00:32:24,119
cooperation of his fellow bishops. It is not enough for

560
00:32:24,279 --> 00:32:26,200
you to show that, in his role as the head

561
00:32:26,240 --> 00:32:30,599
of the Roman Synod, he issued excommunications and anathemas as

562
00:32:30,640 --> 00:32:33,319
that is normal in the federation of churches, and that

563
00:32:33,519 --> 00:32:38,039
is exactly what the first Millennium Church did. They were

564
00:32:38,160 --> 00:32:41,359
a federation of churches, and many patriarchs and archbishops availed

565
00:32:41,400 --> 00:32:44,519
themselves of such a privilege, cutting off from their sonodal

566
00:32:44,519 --> 00:32:48,000
communion all those who refused to comply. A prime example

567
00:32:48,039 --> 00:32:50,599
of this is a situation involving Saint John Chris System

568
00:32:51,079 --> 00:32:54,000
and the patriarch of Alexandria, Saint Theophilis, which created a

569
00:32:54,039 --> 00:32:57,039
schism of Rome was only healed under Saint Cyril.

570
00:33:01,279 --> 00:33:05,000
Speaker 1: Now that already begins to refute some of the argumentation

571
00:33:05,119 --> 00:33:07,880
of Eric. When Eric was trying to argue that well,

572
00:33:07,920 --> 00:33:12,000
the pope saw himself as unilateral because he could excommunicate

573
00:33:12,119 --> 00:33:15,799
or say somebody way far off was excommunicated. Yeah, but

574
00:33:15,960 --> 00:33:19,359
other patriarchs did the exact same thing, so that itself

575
00:33:19,519 --> 00:33:20,359
doesn't prove anything.

576
00:33:22,359 --> 00:33:24,240
Speaker 7: But on the topic of infallibility, when the Council of

577
00:33:24,240 --> 00:33:26,200
Calcidon critically examined the tone of Pope Saint Leo, they

578
00:33:26,279 --> 00:33:28,240
used the councils of Nicea on Fsis as the standard.

579
00:33:28,400 --> 00:33:30,359
Had the tone been understood as ex Cathedra. This type

580
00:33:30,400 --> 00:33:32,400
of behavior would have been unthinkable, as it would have

581
00:33:32,400 --> 00:33:34,920
already been considered dogma. When one reads the pages upon

582
00:33:34,960 --> 00:33:37,039
pages of the bishop's critically examining it, one cannot help

583
00:33:37,079 --> 00:33:38,599
but realize they had no concept of the tone as

584
00:33:38,640 --> 00:33:40,440
being ex cathedra nord to Saint Leo for that matter,

585
00:33:40,480 --> 00:33:42,240
because in letter one twenty he states the Council of

586
00:33:42,240 --> 00:33:44,519
Calcedon unquote ratified his tone and that it has been

587
00:33:44,599 --> 00:33:48,200
quote received by the judgment of the whole Christian I don't.

588
00:33:48,039 --> 00:33:49,240
Speaker 1: Know why that started playing fast.

589
00:33:49,319 --> 00:33:51,440
Speaker 4: I'm already heretics.

590
00:33:51,480 --> 00:33:53,000
Speaker 7: So the Sea of Rome had not always been.

591
00:33:53,839 --> 00:33:55,799
Speaker 1: This is acting all weird. So let me go back

592
00:33:55,839 --> 00:34:01,039
to Ubi's.

593
00:33:58,920 --> 00:34:03,359
Speaker 7: Orient pages of the bishops critically examining it, One cannot

594
00:34:03,440 --> 00:34:08,320
help but real or any institutionships archbishops of the Metropolitans

595
00:34:11,559 --> 00:34:14,159
do object to is the vat to one model of.

596
00:34:14,199 --> 00:34:22,559
Speaker 8: Addicted Maybe I got Tolis, which created the schism of

597
00:34:22,679 --> 00:34:25,039
Rome was only healed under Saint Cereal.

598
00:34:28,519 --> 00:34:29,360
Speaker 5: But on the topic of.

599
00:34:29,400 --> 00:34:33,599
Speaker 7: Infallibility, when the Council of Calciedm critically examined the tone

600
00:34:33,639 --> 00:34:36,760
of Pope Saint Leo, they used the councils of Nicea

601
00:34:36,800 --> 00:34:40,440
and ephesis as the standard. Had the tone been understood

602
00:34:40,480 --> 00:34:45,039
as ex cathedra, this type of behavior would have been unthinkable,

603
00:34:45,440 --> 00:34:47,440
as it would have already been considered dogma.

604
00:34:47,840 --> 00:34:49,079
Speaker 4: But when one.

605
00:34:49,039 --> 00:34:53,840
Speaker 1: Reads I noticed Eric's argument is literally that Leo perhaps

606
00:34:54,360 --> 00:34:58,079
thought of his tone as ex cathedral, so therefore it's

607
00:34:58,119 --> 00:35:02,239
a demonstration of ex cathedral first millennium. And Ubi's point

608
00:35:02,360 --> 00:35:06,480
is that the Ecumenical Council did not receive it as

609
00:35:06,599 --> 00:35:10,719
that it doesn't matter that Leo said this is an authoritative,

610
00:35:11,000 --> 00:35:14,079
necessary document in the mind of the Council, it still

611
00:35:14,159 --> 00:35:17,719
had to be investigated and compared against the previous teachings

612
00:35:17,719 --> 00:35:21,280
and against the measure, which was Cyril. The measure of

613
00:35:21,360 --> 00:35:25,599
Calcedon is Cyril's teaching, not Leo's. Leo had to match

614
00:35:25,679 --> 00:35:27,079
up to what Cyrilton He's.

615
00:35:26,960 --> 00:35:30,000
Speaker 7: The pages upon pages. As the bishops critically examining it,

616
00:35:30,559 --> 00:35:33,599
one cannot help but realize they had no concept of

617
00:35:33,639 --> 00:35:36,679
the tone as being ex cathedra, nor did Saint Leo

618
00:35:36,800 --> 00:35:39,920
for that matter, because in letter one twenty he states

619
00:35:39,960 --> 00:35:43,960
the Council of Chalcedon quote ratified his tone and that

620
00:35:44,119 --> 00:35:46,760
it has been quote received by the judgment of the

621
00:35:46,800 --> 00:35:47,920
whole Christian world.

622
00:35:48,880 --> 00:35:53,199
Speaker 1: Now, remember Eric is trying to argue that because there

623
00:35:53,440 --> 00:36:00,119
was this uh cooperation in discussion between the pope and

624
00:36:00,199 --> 00:36:05,239
the council, that proves his position. But remember ex cathedra

625
00:36:05,480 --> 00:36:08,679
is a much stronger claim than working together with other

626
00:36:08,760 --> 00:36:12,360
people and other people agreeing with or quote ratifying. Ratification

627
00:36:12,559 --> 00:36:15,719
means that we judge this to be the case. But

628
00:36:15,840 --> 00:36:19,119
remember Erica just argued, no one judges the first c

629
00:36:19,800 --> 00:36:24,239
so that the council ratifies means they make a judgment,

630
00:36:25,199 --> 00:36:29,039
which refutes Eric's claim that it's ex cathedra because no

631
00:36:29,159 --> 00:36:31,840
one judges the first Sea. He literally ended his opening

632
00:36:31,880 --> 00:36:36,639
statement with no one judges the first s Yet Chalcedon

633
00:36:36,920 --> 00:36:42,639
is ratifying or judging whether or not Leo taught orthodoxy,

634
00:36:43,119 --> 00:36:48,440
and Eric actually concedes this when he admits that Honorius

635
00:36:48,719 --> 00:36:52,920
taught heresy. I'm not joking. Eric literally says Honorius was

636
00:36:52,960 --> 00:36:57,920
a heretic, and I concede that, which means that counsels

637
00:36:58,000 --> 00:37:01,760
judge the popes. You see, and we're going to play

638
00:37:01,760 --> 00:37:02,480
that clip in a moment.

639
00:37:03,840 --> 00:37:07,000
Speaker 7: Furthermore, when Bishop Vincent Gasser at the behest of Pope

640
00:37:07,039 --> 00:37:11,559
Pious ninth wrote the official interpretation of Pastor e Turnus,

641
00:37:11,679 --> 00:37:15,719
known as the Ralatio Bishop Gasser. He did not include

642
00:37:15,800 --> 00:37:19,440
the Tome and his examples when trying to prove papal

643
00:37:19,480 --> 00:37:24,360
infallibility in the first millennium. Yes, Saint Flavian did say

644
00:37:24,519 --> 00:37:26,559
that all it would take is a letter from Saint

645
00:37:26,679 --> 00:37:30,400
Leo to cure the situation with Utukeys. That is, but

646
00:37:30,559 --> 00:37:33,280
that is because Utichise himself says that is what will

647
00:37:33,320 --> 00:37:36,280
make him change his mind, not any commitment on the

648
00:37:36,320 --> 00:37:39,519
part of the Church of Constantinople. In other words, the

649
00:37:39,599 --> 00:37:45,920
tremendously influential person that being Utikys was actually the godparent

650
00:37:46,000 --> 00:37:49,719
of one of the chief eunuchs and very influential the

651
00:37:50,440 --> 00:37:52,920
person who was causing all of the problems, announced they

652
00:37:52,920 --> 00:37:56,239
would listen to whatever Leo told them. Of course, Utikys

653
00:37:56,320 --> 00:37:59,000
only said that because he thought Leo would agree with him.

654
00:37:59,519 --> 00:37:59,920
Speaker 4: When St.

655
00:38:00,079 --> 00:38:03,639
Speaker 7: Leo didnot, Uzikis immediately went to the paytrick of Alexandria

656
00:38:03,679 --> 00:38:06,639
di Oscars. It's with noting that Yusiki's actually appealed to

657
00:38:06,760 --> 00:38:08,400
Alexandra and as well to.

658
00:38:10,320 --> 00:38:10,960
Speaker 8: Other sees.

659
00:38:11,079 --> 00:38:14,239
Speaker 7: But this is a revealing There's a revealing quotation from

660
00:38:14,280 --> 00:38:18,239
Saint Leo's letter fourteen, Section twelve, in which he roots

661
00:38:18,280 --> 00:38:21,719
the premacy is every episcopal level, to the distinction between

662
00:38:21,760 --> 00:38:25,880
Saint Peter and the other apostles. He draws a parallel

663
00:38:25,920 --> 00:38:28,840
between the role of a metropolitan among the bishops and.

664
00:38:29,360 --> 00:38:31,599
Speaker 1: Real quick I want to add that we're going to

665
00:38:31,679 --> 00:38:33,840
open it up to people who want to call in,

666
00:38:33,960 --> 00:38:36,039
who have debate topics, or they want to they want

667
00:38:36,039 --> 00:38:40,559
to have a debate when we finish with ubi's opening statement. Here,

668
00:38:40,599 --> 00:38:44,280
I'm not going to play this whole debate. It's three hours.

669
00:38:44,400 --> 00:38:46,400
We would be here for forever, So if you want

670
00:38:46,440 --> 00:38:49,079
to watch the full debate, I'll put it in the

671
00:38:49,159 --> 00:38:52,719
chat right there there it is. We'll play a couple

672
00:38:52,719 --> 00:38:55,000
of clips after ubi's opening statement, and then we will

673
00:38:55,039 --> 00:38:57,920
open it up for people who call in via Twitter.

674
00:38:58,000 --> 00:38:59,559
The way that you call in is through my ex

675
00:39:00,079 --> 00:39:02,599
link that's in the show description. It's also in the chat,

676
00:39:03,039 --> 00:39:04,920
and you can make any argument you want. You can

677
00:39:05,000 --> 00:39:06,599
ask me a question. You don't have to debate, but

678
00:39:06,679 --> 00:39:09,400
we always give priority to people who want to come

679
00:39:09,440 --> 00:39:09,920
on in debate.

680
00:39:10,960 --> 00:39:14,079
Speaker 7: In just a moment, Bishop among the metropolitans and the

681
00:39:14,159 --> 00:39:17,480
Pope among the archbishops. Quote and again, this is elect

682
00:39:17,519 --> 00:39:21,199
of fourteen section twelve. And though they have a common dignity,

683
00:39:21,320 --> 00:39:25,280
yet they did not have uniform rank, And as much

684
00:39:25,320 --> 00:39:29,639
as even among the blessed apostles, notwithstanding the similarity of

685
00:39:29,679 --> 00:39:33,159
their honorable state, there was a certain distinction of power.

686
00:39:33,239 --> 00:39:35,840
And while the election of them all was equal, yet

687
00:39:35,920 --> 00:39:37,880
it was given to one to take the lead of

688
00:39:37,920 --> 00:39:41,800
the first, from which model has arisen a distinction among

689
00:39:41,920 --> 00:39:45,880
bishops also, and by an important ordinance, it has been

690
00:39:45,960 --> 00:39:49,559
provided that everyone should not claim everything for himself, but

691
00:39:49,679 --> 00:39:52,840
that there should be in each province one whose opinions

692
00:39:53,159 --> 00:39:56,360
should have the priority among the brethren. And again that

693
00:39:56,519 --> 00:40:00,559
certain whose appointment is in the greater cities should undertake

694
00:40:00,679 --> 00:40:03,960
a fuller responsibility, through whom the care of the universal

695
00:40:04,039 --> 00:40:07,480
Church should converge towards Peter's one seat, and nothing anywhere

696
00:40:07,519 --> 00:40:11,719
should be separated from its head letter fourteen twelve. We

697
00:40:11,920 --> 00:40:15,719
know from canonical literature what the rights of bishops, metropolitans

698
00:40:15,800 --> 00:40:19,320
and archbishops were, and Saint Leo is drawing a parallel

699
00:40:19,360 --> 00:40:21,880
between those and the role of the papacy. So we

700
00:40:22,000 --> 00:40:23,920
have a very good idea of what Saint Leo saw

701
00:40:23,960 --> 00:40:26,039
us a pope's role, and it was not vatkan one,

702
00:40:26,480 --> 00:40:30,559
but conciliary ecclesiology as an Orthodox Church teaches to this day.

703
00:40:31,239 --> 00:40:33,920
For the Saint Leo states that the higher ups quote

704
00:40:34,599 --> 00:40:38,320
their opinions, should have the priority among the brethren. Notice

705
00:40:38,320 --> 00:40:41,440
its priority, not autocracy. His vision is essentially that of

706
00:40:41,480 --> 00:40:43,880
Apsolic Canon thirty four on the universal level, which states

707
00:40:43,920 --> 00:40:45,320
that the head of the synon the members, should do

708
00:40:45,320 --> 00:40:46,800
everything in concert, not one alone.

709
00:40:53,559 --> 00:40:56,760
Speaker 1: Yeah, and I wanted to bring that up because this

710
00:40:56,960 --> 00:41:07,639
is often overlooked in this discussion. Canon thirty four, which

711
00:41:07,679 --> 00:41:11,599
are the ancient, you know, earliest versions of canon law

712
00:41:11,719 --> 00:41:17,760
Church law. Canon thirty four is that the bishops of

713
00:41:17,800 --> 00:41:20,800
every nation must acknowledge those that are first among them

714
00:41:21,320 --> 00:41:24,559
and account them as their head. So notice that this

715
00:41:24,840 --> 00:41:30,519
is a universal, diffused structure where each nation kind of

716
00:41:30,639 --> 00:41:33,719
has a primate or an archbishop, where a what will

717
00:41:33,719 --> 00:41:37,639
eventually perhaps be Metropolitans and then later on pentarchy. Right,

718
00:41:39,760 --> 00:41:43,400
and they must do things in concert, in in accord. Right,

719
00:41:44,199 --> 00:41:47,159
And you know, notice that it never says anything about

720
00:41:47,320 --> 00:41:50,159
a super bishop, just like Canon six of Nicea doesn't

721
00:41:50,159 --> 00:41:53,519
say anything about a super bishop. So what Ubi's arguing

722
00:41:53,679 --> 00:41:58,800
is that the structure of the Synod and the bishop

723
00:41:58,920 --> 00:42:03,599
and the primates, and they are bishop mirrors the Ecumenical Synod,

724
00:42:03,760 --> 00:42:08,079
and that structure within the Ecumenical councils with Rome first,

725
00:42:08,920 --> 00:42:11,519
you know, and then Alexandria, Antioch, et cetera. It's a

726
00:42:11,639 --> 00:42:15,880
movable structure, by the way, because as you get Constantinople,

727
00:42:16,119 --> 00:42:20,519
which Rome later concedes to the new structure with Constantinople

728
00:42:20,559 --> 00:42:23,320
amongst the Pentarchy. If you read Canon six and Nicia,

729
00:42:23,800 --> 00:42:28,320
Constantinople doesn't exist yet. It's not amongst that structure yet.

730
00:42:28,360 --> 00:42:35,559
It's not a metropolitan yet. But Kennon six and Icia says, Rome, Antioch, Alexandria,

731
00:42:35,719 --> 00:42:37,760
those are the three early seas, and those are by

732
00:42:37,760 --> 00:42:42,280
the way, patrine seas. But this structure is clearly not

733
00:42:43,679 --> 00:42:47,760
the Vatican One structure. And that's exactly why Chi eighty

734
00:42:47,920 --> 00:42:51,519
and Alexandria admit this point, which is what Eric is

735
00:42:51,559 --> 00:42:54,440
trying to go against, trying to prove that well, it

736
00:42:54,599 --> 00:42:56,920
was still there even though it wasn't mentioned. It was

737
00:42:57,039 --> 00:43:01,840
just so arguments from silence. Basically, the reason I argument

738
00:43:01,880 --> 00:43:04,079
from silence is because it's not in these canons. I

739
00:43:04,199 --> 00:43:08,000
understand argument. Eric's giving what he thinks are historical examples,

740
00:43:08,079 --> 00:43:10,840
but the point is that the canons don't mention this

741
00:43:10,960 --> 00:43:16,760
kind of stuff. The canonical arguments are like hardcore on

742
00:43:16,880 --> 00:43:20,280
the Orthodox side, and Roman Catholics never talk about these

743
00:43:20,320 --> 00:43:24,119
canons because they don't support the Roman Catholic position. That's

744
00:43:24,320 --> 00:43:28,519
exactly why Eric has to go to papal claims about

745
00:43:28,719 --> 00:43:33,000
the papacy itself to prove his position. You'll notice that,

746
00:43:33,360 --> 00:43:36,039
and that and a bunch of later on supposed Byzantine

747
00:43:36,119 --> 00:43:41,719
Russian historians. He's not going to the canons which expressed

748
00:43:41,760 --> 00:43:45,519
the universal mind of the Church, and the synods, which

749
00:43:45,639 --> 00:43:50,159
absolutely nowhere back up the Roman vatican Ie position. And

750
00:43:50,199 --> 00:43:56,880
in fact, every ecumenical council includes canons which contradict the

751
00:43:57,000 --> 00:43:58,440
Vatican One position.

752
00:44:00,039 --> 00:44:02,039
Speaker 7: Which you brought up in your introduction. It is often

753
00:44:02,079 --> 00:44:05,800
pointed out that Saint Felix ex excommunicated bless Us apologize.

754
00:44:06,119 --> 00:44:08,400
It is often pointed out that Saint Felix excommunicated Blessed

755
00:44:08,440 --> 00:44:09,599
Acacius of Constantinople.

756
00:44:09,679 --> 00:44:10,280
Speaker 4: And that is true.

757
00:44:10,320 --> 00:44:12,519
Speaker 7: That is true, but far from exercising some sort of

758
00:44:12,599 --> 00:44:15,519
Vatican One prerogative as you would imagine, or as you

759
00:44:15,519 --> 00:44:17,480
would argue, his success or Pope Saint Glacias states in

760
00:44:17,519 --> 00:44:19,960
the letter ten four that Pope Felix did what any

761
00:44:20,039 --> 00:44:23,320
bishop could do in choosing to excommunicate a bishop who

762
00:44:23,360 --> 00:44:26,280
failed to uphold the Counsel of Calcedone quote. Does Eufemius

763
00:44:26,360 --> 00:44:28,519
not realize that Akakius was condemned According to the formula

764
00:44:28,519 --> 00:44:31,000
of the Synod of Calcedon, it is permissible not only

765
00:44:31,039 --> 00:44:33,880
for an Apostolic leader, but for every pontiff to separate

766
00:44:33,880 --> 00:44:36,920
from Catholic communion whomsoever they like and whatever place they like,

767
00:44:37,159 --> 00:44:39,400
according to the rule of the very heresy that has

768
00:44:39,480 --> 00:44:41,960
previously been condemned. Letter ten four of Saint Galacias and

769
00:44:42,079 --> 00:44:43,880
letter twelve eight. Saint Galasius makes the same claim in

770
00:44:43,920 --> 00:44:46,440
regard to the heretics Timothy, Peter and Peter of Antioch,

771
00:44:46,440 --> 00:44:47,800
and again in letter twenty seven to three.

772
00:44:50,199 --> 00:44:52,360
Speaker 2: TikTok keeps trying to tell me that I have secretly

773
00:44:52,440 --> 00:44:53,960
Lady hair, I'm gonna prove him wrong.

774
00:44:54,880 --> 00:44:55,719
Speaker 7: Oh my god, they're right.

775
00:44:56,039 --> 00:44:56,719
Speaker 4: I started it easy.

776
00:44:58,320 --> 00:44:59,920
Speaker 7: This is because the Great Saint Glasius, far from s

777
00:45:00,159 --> 00:45:03,360
himself as an unlimited autocrat of Vatican One and understands

778
00:45:03,400 --> 00:45:05,920
his role as a ratifier of proposed universal sonodal decisions.

779
00:45:06,199 --> 00:45:08,440
In fact, in letter one to three, Saint Galacia shows

780
00:45:08,440 --> 00:45:10,599
he believes the episcopacy is the highest office in the church,

781
00:45:10,840 --> 00:45:12,400
meaning that any office presumed to be above it can

782
00:45:12,440 --> 00:45:14,199
work only through the sonodal model and is not in

783
00:45:14,199 --> 00:45:17,159
autocracy quote beyond the presbyterate, what is more important to

784
00:45:17,199 --> 00:45:19,679
the governance of the church if not the episcopate. In

785
00:45:19,800 --> 00:45:22,559
letters one, one, one, nine, ten four through five, ten nine,

786
00:45:22,679 --> 00:45:25,079
and twenty seven four through five, we see Saint Galacius

787
00:45:25,079 --> 00:45:27,480
stressing that because Rome is a sonodal head, those sonodal

788
00:45:27,519 --> 00:45:29,840
decisions that have been ratified by his predecessors have been

789
00:45:29,880 --> 00:45:32,440
made permanent and can only be undone via the sonodal process,

790
00:45:32,920 --> 00:45:36,039
with Saint Galasias or his successors ratifying the decision. For

791
00:45:36,079 --> 00:45:38,360
Saint Galacias as for the other popes, especially Saint Leo,

792
00:45:38,800 --> 00:45:40,960
Rome's role was analogous to that of a keystone in

793
00:45:41,039 --> 00:45:43,760
an arch. The keystone was put in as the crowning

794
00:45:43,840 --> 00:45:45,760
and last piece once the rest of the arch had

795
00:45:45,760 --> 00:45:48,360
been constructed. So while a keystone on it's own did

796
00:45:48,400 --> 00:45:51,639
not make an arch. Without a keystone, no arch could exist.

797
00:45:51,880 --> 00:45:54,800
It's just sonodal ecclesiology. Now in Letter's one dot thirty

798
00:45:54,800 --> 00:45:56,920
eight through thirty nine, Saint Galacius even laments that he

799
00:45:57,000 --> 00:45:59,920
might be judged by the Church for receiving heretics into communion.

800
00:46:00,039 --> 00:46:01,760
And he stands in start contrast to the claims made

801
00:46:01,760 --> 00:46:04,880
concerning Pope Saint Simachus, which we cover in our video

802
00:46:04,960 --> 00:46:07,840
entitled Papal Forgeries. But Saints Avitus of Vienna and Anodius

803
00:46:07,880 --> 00:46:09,719
of Pavia are stating that the Bishop of Rome cannot

804
00:46:09,760 --> 00:46:11,840
be judged. But the context of those two quotations, as

805
00:46:11,920 --> 00:46:14,079
well as a statements made by Pope Saint Gleasias and

806
00:46:14,400 --> 00:46:16,159
much later by Pope Innocent the Third, as well as

807
00:46:16,159 --> 00:46:18,880
the depositions of one of Simachus's successors, Silverius, and the

808
00:46:18,920 --> 00:46:21,280
events surrounding the Fifth Ecumenical Council, it becomes clear that

809
00:46:21,320 --> 00:46:24,880
Santa Vitus and Anodius Satinodius were speaking on moral failings,

810
00:46:24,960 --> 00:46:27,400
not heresy, which in and of itself is suspect enough,

811
00:46:27,519 --> 00:46:29,679
since Saint Simachus was on trial for supposedlyving affair with

812
00:46:29,679 --> 00:46:32,599
then of Saint Peter, now with Saint Agapetus on the

813
00:46:32,639 --> 00:46:34,559
topic of him, There's really nothing special about a pope

814
00:46:34,639 --> 00:46:36,840
leading a Council on Constantinople that condemns not a patriarch,

815
00:46:36,920 --> 00:46:39,239
but a patriarch who had resigned sometime previously. This is

816
00:46:39,280 --> 00:46:40,880
merely a notable act, not the type of Vatican Wan

817
00:46:40,920 --> 00:46:44,119
autocracy you need to prove. And Silverius was depposed in exile,

818
00:46:44,159 --> 00:46:46,119
who is actually the posed an excellent But when Empers

819
00:46:46,159 --> 00:46:47,840
Saint Justin he'd heard of this, he demanded Silverius be

820
00:46:47,880 --> 00:46:49,559
sent back and be given a proper trial instead, though

821
00:46:49,559 --> 00:46:53,440
he was handed over to Pope Vigilius, who exiled him

822
00:46:53,480 --> 00:46:55,639
and allowed him to starve to death. Again, not a

823
00:46:55,679 --> 00:46:57,679
people was heard that the pope couldn't be judged, and

824
00:46:57,760 --> 00:46:59,400
even if we were to argue that Vigelius being the pope,

825
00:46:59,400 --> 00:47:01,719
could judge, So it makes a question of how Vigilious

826
00:47:01,719 --> 00:47:03,880
could be a valid pope if an invalidly the post

827
00:47:03,880 --> 00:47:06,480
pope was still alive, meaning that Virgilius would still have

828
00:47:06,480 --> 00:47:08,840
been a non pope. Judging of pope on the top

829
00:47:08,920 --> 00:47:11,199
of Saint rmisas the jam.

830
00:47:13,360 --> 00:47:17,559
Speaker 1: Note that because that will be brought up again that

831
00:47:17,719 --> 00:47:22,840
point about Vigilius precisely later on, when Ubi really makes

832
00:47:23,159 --> 00:47:27,679
it borrow collapse. So we're almost done with Ubi's opening statement,

833
00:47:27,719 --> 00:47:31,480
then we're gonna look at the and that point on

834
00:47:31,599 --> 00:47:34,840
Vigilius is one of the key points. Now, the description

835
00:47:35,039 --> 00:47:39,559
of this used to say very explicitly I could I remember.

836
00:47:39,760 --> 00:47:43,159
I thought that it was way more explicit that they

837
00:47:43,320 --> 00:47:49,119
said the papacy of Vigilius and something else. I don't

838
00:47:49,159 --> 00:47:54,159
see that written anywhere used to say that. But if

839
00:47:54,199 --> 00:47:56,480
that's one of the premises of the debate, and Yubora

840
00:47:56,599 --> 00:47:58,920
explicitly says I don't know and I have no answer

841
00:47:58,960 --> 00:48:03,000
to that, then that to me is pretty clearly at

842
00:48:03,079 --> 00:48:04,880
least in half of the debate, bar was saying that

843
00:48:05,000 --> 00:48:07,679
he lost. And we'll play that clip and you can

844
00:48:07,719 --> 00:48:09,840
see what what I'm what I mean. But it's it's

845
00:48:09,920 --> 00:48:11,599
on that Vigilia's point right there.

846
00:48:11,840 --> 00:48:13,800
Speaker 7: Any papapologetics quote mind, is going to be the lobalist

847
00:48:13,880 --> 00:48:15,800
ormistos due to two lines of particular quote. And the

848
00:48:15,800 --> 00:48:17,880
Apostolics see the Catholic religion has always be preserved without

849
00:48:17,880 --> 00:48:20,599
blemish end quote end quote. And quote in which the

850
00:48:20,639 --> 00:48:23,400
firmness of the Christian religion is hold true. It's rarely acknowledged.

851
00:48:23,480 --> 00:48:25,480
And in your book you simply denied the other versions

852
00:48:25,480 --> 00:48:27,639
of the labellus existed, and I found that claim to

853
00:48:27,679 --> 00:48:31,039
be preposterous, as is well documented in the primary sources,

854
00:48:31,480 --> 00:48:35,320
even by Saint Hormis Dawson's emissaries. Quote and this is

855
00:48:35,440 --> 00:48:38,719
from this is a segastio, meaning a report written to

856
00:48:39,760 --> 00:48:41,920
Saint Hormisdas from de Oscris.

857
00:48:42,320 --> 00:48:42,800
Speaker 1: The Deacon.

858
00:48:43,519 --> 00:48:47,519
Speaker 7: After much negotiation when they the archer mandrite a commandrites

859
00:48:47,559 --> 00:48:51,440
two were won over by arguments They presented labelli by

860
00:48:51,599 --> 00:48:57,400
all kinds and methods. Further, Saint Harmisdawsin's letter to the

861
00:48:57,480 --> 00:49:02,960
ecumenical Patriarch Epiphoniness of Constantinope writes, quote, also let the

862
00:49:03,039 --> 00:49:05,920
contents of the labelli which they have presented be included

863
00:49:06,039 --> 00:49:11,079
in your report end quote. He later continues, and since

864
00:49:11,159 --> 00:49:14,480
in your letter, your love has made mention of the

865
00:49:14,559 --> 00:49:19,159
Jerusalemites whose recent profession was reported to us, we considered

866
00:49:19,239 --> 00:49:22,239
it necessary either to review what was written or to

867
00:49:22,360 --> 00:49:27,880
indicate what was agreeable. None of those three quotations above

868
00:49:28,000 --> 00:49:29,880
make any sense if there was only one form of

869
00:49:30,000 --> 00:49:33,760
the libellus, and the evidence indicates that the vast majority

870
00:49:33,760 --> 00:49:37,239
of those who signed did not sign the labellus, but

871
00:49:37,440 --> 00:49:42,280
rather a labellas they themselves composed independently. We even have

872
00:49:42,440 --> 00:49:48,039
one from the bunch of monks from Lebanon. But what

873
00:49:48,199 --> 00:49:51,239
follows the last quotation is a several paragraph long outline

874
00:49:51,280 --> 00:49:56,039
written by Saint Jormisdos on what the libelli being offered

875
00:49:56,039 --> 00:49:59,320
to him must be composed of, and it consists of

876
00:49:59,400 --> 00:50:03,599
teachings on Trinity, a focus on Christology, and even some marriology,

877
00:50:04,079 --> 00:50:06,400
but no mention of the supposed papal claims in the

878
00:50:06,440 --> 00:50:09,960
initial lobellus. In fact, Saint Peter is not even mentioned

879
00:50:10,239 --> 00:50:11,400
in the outline.

880
00:50:11,039 --> 00:50:13,000
Speaker 4: That he gives. Assuming St.

881
00:50:13,039 --> 00:50:15,679
Speaker 7: Harmissed Us had been insistent on papal claims in the

882
00:50:15,719 --> 00:50:20,840
first labellus, why would he suddenly omit those as required

883
00:50:20,920 --> 00:50:24,159
in future labelli unless he himself saw them as the

884
00:50:24,199 --> 00:50:28,880
irrelevant rhetoric that they really were just chest pounding. The

885
00:50:29,000 --> 00:50:32,039
issue is really that you guys latch onto the term always,

886
00:50:32,119 --> 00:50:35,559
and you assume that always means every single time. But

887
00:50:35,719 --> 00:50:37,960
when we look at quotations from other righteous from the

888
00:50:38,000 --> 00:50:42,039
same period, we find absolute terms like always and never

889
00:50:42,280 --> 00:50:45,480
in every way at all times when used to describe

890
00:50:45,719 --> 00:50:48,280
historical events, are usually used in the same way it

891
00:50:48,360 --> 00:50:52,159
is in English, and that means generally speaking, or tends to.

892
00:50:54,559 --> 00:50:56,920
Speaker 1: I've been a board of points time for our absolute

893
00:50:57,039 --> 00:50:59,360
biggest deal of the year on daily ware.

894
00:50:59,400 --> 00:50:59,880
Speaker 4: Plus that is.

895
00:51:01,639 --> 00:51:05,039
Speaker 7: Case in point. Most of the bishops presence at Chalcedon

896
00:51:05,119 --> 00:51:07,760
had been involved in schism with Rome over Ephesus two

897
00:51:08,519 --> 00:51:11,440
in four fourteen nine, that lasts until the summer prior

898
00:51:11,519 --> 00:51:14,800
to Chalcedon in autumn four fifty one, and they wrote

899
00:51:14,800 --> 00:51:19,559
to Saint Leo concerning canaon twenty eight This will show

900
00:51:19,639 --> 00:51:22,480
also due regard for the pious emperors who have confirmed

901
00:51:22,559 --> 00:51:25,679
us law the judgment of your sacredness, and the Sea

902
00:51:25,719 --> 00:51:30,599
of Constantinople will receive its recompense for having always shown

903
00:51:30,639 --> 00:51:33,159
you great ardor in the cause of piety, and for

904
00:51:33,320 --> 00:51:36,440
having zealously allied itself with you for the sake of harmony.

905
00:51:37,119 --> 00:51:39,480
Never mind that only months before they had been in community,

906
00:51:39,480 --> 00:51:41,800
they had not been in communion with Rome. They had

907
00:51:42,159 --> 00:51:45,559
always shown Saint Leo great ardor and the cause of piety.

908
00:51:46,480 --> 00:51:48,760
How many heretics and corrupt men's had on the throne

909
00:51:48,800 --> 00:51:54,000
of Alexandria prior to de oscris arians whatnot. But speaking

910
00:51:54,280 --> 00:51:59,639
of descris Saint Leo states, the Church of Alexandria, which

911
00:51:59,719 --> 00:52:01,800
has always been a house of.

912
00:52:01,880 --> 00:52:04,679
Speaker 4: Prayer is not so.

913
00:52:04,719 --> 00:52:09,480
Speaker 1: In other words, patristic usage of always, just like head,

914
00:52:10,360 --> 00:52:14,119
does not mean what Rome oftentimes wants it to mean,

915
00:52:14,719 --> 00:52:20,920
these exclusive literal statements. And you'll notice that later on

916
00:52:21,679 --> 00:52:24,679
when UBI asked this of Eric about certain statements, Eric

917
00:52:24,719 --> 00:52:29,119
admits that it doesn't always mean that literally, but Roman

918
00:52:29,199 --> 00:52:31,559
Catholics want it to mean that when they need it

919
00:52:31,639 --> 00:52:34,920
to mean that for their position. So it's a double standard.

920
00:52:36,159 --> 00:52:41,280
Speaker 7: To be a down of robbers. I have numerous other

921
00:52:41,360 --> 00:52:43,760
statements like this from the period under discussion that I

922
00:52:43,800 --> 00:52:47,880
will be presenting during the cross examination. Regardless when all

923
00:52:47,960 --> 00:52:50,960
of these men are taken into account, there are a

924
00:52:51,079 --> 00:52:53,079
lot of always and a lot of never, a lot

925
00:52:53,159 --> 00:52:56,599
of grand statements, and that style of retrach one encounters

926
00:52:56,639 --> 00:52:59,800
predominantly in societies have not gone through an industrial revolution

927
00:53:00,400 --> 00:53:02,719
yet even now, we rarely use always, and we rarely

928
00:53:02,800 --> 00:53:06,239
use never to refer to a consistently positive or consistently

929
00:53:06,360 --> 00:53:10,079
negative event. So, going back to the labellus of Hormisdos,

930
00:53:10,159 --> 00:53:13,159
the question is was Pope Saint Hormisdos really unaware of

931
00:53:13,360 --> 00:53:16,159
Pope's who had failed to keep the faith unsullied? Was

932
00:53:16,199 --> 00:53:21,760
he really unaware of Pope Marcellinius Marsin Marcelenos, who had

933
00:53:21,800 --> 00:53:25,239
sacrificed to idols during the persecution, or Pope Saint Liberius,

934
00:53:25,280 --> 00:53:29,519
who signed an Aryan confession and condemned Saint Tathanasius. Was

935
00:53:29,559 --> 00:53:32,159
he really unaware that Pope Felix the second had been

936
00:53:32,159 --> 00:53:36,159
an aryan. Furthermore, even if he wasn't aware of those,

937
00:53:36,960 --> 00:53:39,760
he would be proven wrong three decades later when Pope

938
00:53:39,840 --> 00:53:43,880
Virgilius repeatedly flip flopped on the condemnation of the Three Chapters,

939
00:53:44,239 --> 00:53:47,320
and the seventh century when Pope Honorius, writing an official

940
00:53:47,400 --> 00:53:52,239
capacity to patriarch Surgeries of Constantinople, endorsed mono energism and

941
00:53:52,320 --> 00:53:55,960
Monotheltism and was condemned by an ecumenical council for doing so.

942
00:53:56,920 --> 00:54:01,719
We are faced with three Athens, Saint Rmisdas was just incorrect.

943
00:54:02,360 --> 00:54:02,880
Speaker 4: He didn't know.

944
00:54:04,360 --> 00:54:08,519
Speaker 7: Two he was lying or bluffing, or three he used

945
00:54:08,519 --> 00:54:10,239
the term always the way that we use it, and

946
00:54:10,320 --> 00:54:14,159
he meant typically or tends to. I prefer the third option.

947
00:54:16,119 --> 00:54:18,559
It was a wrong way to speak in general at sorry,

948
00:54:18,639 --> 00:54:21,199
it was a wrongan way to speak in generalities. It

949
00:54:21,320 --> 00:54:23,639
is not that always simply has a different meaning in

950
00:54:23,719 --> 00:54:26,360
Latin and Greek than English, but rather that it carries

951
00:54:26,400 --> 00:54:29,239
the same meaning, and that is a tendency towards or generally.

952
00:54:29,400 --> 00:54:29,559
Speaker 4: Yes.

953
00:54:30,039 --> 00:54:32,920
Speaker 7: In fact, we can look at how I've used it today,

954
00:54:33,000 --> 00:54:34,920
or rather how I will. When I came in, I

955
00:54:34,960 --> 00:54:36,800
told Matt that I've always enjoyed pints with a uinas.

956
00:54:37,880 --> 00:54:39,239
There are some shows that I didn't, but almost all

957
00:54:39,239 --> 00:54:43,360
of them I did. If the audience were to produce

958
00:54:43,360 --> 00:54:44,920
our own usage of the word, they would find that

959
00:54:44,920 --> 00:54:47,719
always almost never means every single instance. Okay, this is

960
00:54:47,719 --> 00:54:49,960
why Christ says I'm with you always until the end

961
00:54:49,960 --> 00:54:52,599
of time. He has to qualify always with until the

962
00:54:52,679 --> 00:54:54,400
end of time. But let us pretend that the labellus

963
00:54:54,440 --> 00:54:56,239
of Horman's loss does not have or does have acim

964
00:54:56,280 --> 00:54:58,840
one presuppositions behind it. One would then expect that the

965
00:54:58,880 --> 00:55:01,719
same bishops would supposedly so eagerly signed it, surely would

966
00:55:01,719 --> 00:55:03,320
not disregard the voice of the Pope on faith and

967
00:55:03,360 --> 00:55:05,559
morals in the future. But they did in the dispute

968
00:55:05,559 --> 00:55:07,679
over Thelopostrite formula, in which Rome showed itself to be

969
00:55:07,760 --> 00:55:10,920
unfavorable to theol Postrite formula and advocated against it, but

970
00:55:10,920 --> 00:55:13,280
the Eastern bishops who are now coming with Rome insists

971
00:55:13,320 --> 00:55:15,320
on using it anyway. One might point out that there

972
00:55:15,320 --> 00:55:17,320
are currently many Catholic bishops are coming with Rome, yet

973
00:55:17,320 --> 00:55:21,000
they hold to degenerate morality, degenerate morality and the German bishops.

974
00:55:21,119 --> 00:55:23,039
But if that's a parallel that can be drawn, what

975
00:55:23,119 --> 00:55:25,239
does that say about the bishops who in five nineteen

976
00:55:25,239 --> 00:55:28,519
could supposedly be controlled into signing the libellus in the

977
00:55:28,519 --> 00:55:30,800
first place. Finally, we come to the fact that Vigilius

978
00:55:30,800 --> 00:55:32,800
was deposed from his office during the seventh session of

979
00:55:32,800 --> 00:55:34,880
the Fifth Aemical Council five.

980
00:55:34,760 --> 00:55:37,800
Speaker 4: Point fifty three quote.

981
00:55:37,920 --> 00:55:40,480
Speaker 7: Since therefore he Vigilius has acted in this way, we've

982
00:55:40,519 --> 00:55:42,679
pronounced that his name is alien to Christians, as not

983
00:55:42,760 --> 00:55:46,039
to be read out in the Diptica. One may probably

984
00:55:46,079 --> 00:55:47,400
point out that this was struck from the acts after

985
00:55:47,480 --> 00:55:49,880
Vigilius accepted the condemnation of the three Chapters and was

986
00:55:49,920 --> 00:55:52,159
received back into communion by the East. But by pointing

987
00:55:52,199 --> 00:55:54,400
that out you inadvertently admit that he had to submit

988
00:55:54,440 --> 00:55:56,519
to the judgment of his fellow bishops, something anathema to

989
00:55:56,599 --> 00:55:59,199
vascon One. But Vigilius's condemnation is only compounded by the

990
00:55:59,239 --> 00:56:01,320
people of the North African bishops had also in fact

991
00:56:01,360 --> 00:56:03,760
excommunicated Vigilia's for as they saw that while you bringing

992
00:56:03,760 --> 00:56:05,880
on Calcedon now you might argue that this was outside

993
00:56:05,880 --> 00:56:06,239
of their rights.

994
00:56:06,599 --> 00:56:09,639
Speaker 1: That's a key point too, for precisely the clips that

995
00:56:09,679 --> 00:56:11,000
we're going to see in just a second.

996
00:56:10,960 --> 00:56:12,400
Speaker 7: Of force to deal with the fact that there was,

997
00:56:12,440 --> 00:56:16,400
to our knowledge, absolutely no repercussions or repentance required of

998
00:56:16,400 --> 00:56:18,880
those bishops who had excommunicated him in the aftermath of

999
00:56:18,920 --> 00:56:20,559
the council or for centuries or after, it was simply

1000
00:56:20,559 --> 00:56:22,559
accepted as a matter of fact that bishops could ended

1001
00:56:22,639 --> 00:56:25,239
excommunicate a pope, and when Vigilius then accepted the combination

1002
00:56:25,239 --> 00:56:27,320
of the three chapters, that the bishops could then admit

1003
00:56:27,360 --> 00:56:28,599
the pope back into communion.

1004
00:56:31,039 --> 00:56:34,880
Speaker 1: That's I felt like it was a really strong opening statement.

1005
00:56:36,960 --> 00:56:38,280
So we're going to move on over now. If you

1006
00:56:38,280 --> 00:56:41,039
want to watch the full debate, those are the opening statements.

1007
00:56:41,079 --> 00:56:42,599
We're gonna look at some more highlights. Then we're going

1008
00:56:42,639 --> 00:56:44,960
to open it up to you guys. Here's the full debate.

1009
00:56:45,039 --> 00:56:50,960
In the chat over on that Fry's channel and the

1010
00:56:51,119 --> 00:56:55,599
highlighted points that I thought were really good were this first,

1011
00:56:57,280 --> 00:57:01,480
We'll play my clip first, and then we'll play Luigi's clip.

1012
00:57:03,039 --> 00:57:05,440
So this, I thought was really where Eric faltered. And

1013
00:57:05,480 --> 00:57:09,239
the reason I say this is because oftentimes the debate

1014
00:57:10,000 --> 00:57:16,239
focuses on infallibility, and part and parcel with infallibility is indefectibility,

1015
00:57:16,679 --> 00:57:20,400
and the Vatican One position also argues for indefectibility. The

1016
00:57:20,480 --> 00:57:23,079
Roman see can never defect, can never teach Eric, can

1017
00:57:23,119 --> 00:57:26,800
never teach Charisee. And yet Eric admits that there were

1018
00:57:26,880 --> 00:57:31,039
heretical popes. How in the world do you maintain indefectibility

1019
00:57:31,320 --> 00:57:33,559
It basically it ends up being well, the papas is

1020
00:57:33,599 --> 00:57:38,480
indefectible until he defects, which is to say, a meaningless statement.

1021
00:57:39,039 --> 00:57:41,719
So here is where this is two clips combined where

1022
00:57:41,760 --> 00:57:43,199
I felt like it was really strong. And then we'll

1023
00:57:43,199 --> 00:57:44,840
play Luigi's clip clip.

1024
00:57:44,679 --> 00:57:47,920
Speaker 7: Who never departed from the traditions of the fathers and

1025
00:57:48,039 --> 00:57:51,639
directed the Church of God in ultra tranquility. Do you

1026
00:57:51,679 --> 00:57:52,440
think that's correct?

1027
00:57:53,480 --> 00:57:54,039
Speaker 4: Not literally?

1028
00:57:54,360 --> 00:57:59,960
Speaker 1: Yeah? Okay, oh wait a minute, So in this instant

1029
00:58:00,280 --> 00:58:06,719
when it hurts Eric's case, it's not universal always literal language.

1030
00:58:06,920 --> 00:58:08,119
You just heard of Eric admit that.

1031
00:58:10,440 --> 00:58:12,719
Speaker 7: By the mid fifth century, how many popes have had

1032
00:58:13,119 --> 00:58:14,800
like heretical views.

1033
00:58:16,880 --> 00:58:18,639
Speaker 4: Yeah, this is a hotly debated issue.

1034
00:58:19,800 --> 00:58:23,199
Speaker 2: So, I mean there's questions related to the pontificate of

1035
00:58:23,320 --> 00:58:24,519
like Birius and Felix.

1036
00:58:25,079 --> 00:58:28,719
Speaker 4: Uh, but you know there's there's both sides.

1037
00:58:28,760 --> 00:58:32,679
Speaker 1: Yeah, he says, yeah, there's been a few. Yeah. So

1038
00:58:33,199 --> 00:58:35,719
Eric is kind of conceding there have been heretical popes. Okay,

1039
00:58:36,320 --> 00:58:38,039
and Eric, by the way, as far as I'm aware,

1040
00:58:38,199 --> 00:58:41,719
does concede that Honorius washer a heretic and was extum

1041
00:58:41,760 --> 00:58:43,360
municated by the Six Council.

1042
00:58:43,519 --> 00:58:47,800
Speaker 7: They do you mention this letter? Yes, for that Holy

1043
00:58:47,920 --> 00:58:51,320
see speaking rom has precedents over all churches in the

1044
00:58:51,360 --> 00:58:54,400
world for many reasons, and above all for this that

1045
00:58:54,559 --> 00:58:57,159
is free from any tints of heresy, and that no

1046
00:58:57,679 --> 00:59:01,840
bishop of Heterodox's opinion has ever sat upon its throne,

1047
00:59:02,280 --> 00:59:05,559
but has kept the grace of the apostles undefiled. And

1048
00:59:05,840 --> 00:59:06,760
do you think he's correct?

1049
00:59:06,840 --> 00:59:10,320
Speaker 4: I mean, unless he elsewhere condemns another pope.

1050
00:59:11,639 --> 00:59:13,760
Speaker 7: So as you mentioned, maybe he didn't know. I mean,

1051
00:59:13,800 --> 00:59:15,639
he's out in the sounds, like he's out in the

1052
00:59:15,639 --> 00:59:20,880
boondogs when he riots. I can the constitutions of the

1053
00:59:20,960 --> 00:59:21,800
Church be destroyed.

1054
00:59:23,559 --> 00:59:26,440
Speaker 4: Constitution the Holy Spirit has done through the churches.

1055
00:59:26,280 --> 00:59:27,639
Speaker 7: Right, And these guys are talking about what the Holy

1056
00:59:27,679 --> 00:59:30,000
Spirit is done through the church as always, always, always.

1057
00:59:30,159 --> 00:59:33,360
Speaker 4: So I mean, okay, so in one case, remain thank you.

1058
00:59:33,719 --> 00:59:37,840
Speaker 7: So in this case, I mean, when taking too account

1059
00:59:37,880 --> 00:59:40,679
that there had been heretical popes, I mean, I don't

1060
00:59:40,719 --> 00:59:43,039
see how you can maintain that the always there should

1061
00:59:43,079 --> 00:59:43,719
be the exception.

1062
00:59:44,000 --> 00:59:44,480
Speaker 4: Yeah, we don't.

1063
00:59:44,599 --> 00:59:48,320
Speaker 2: I mean, look, I believe Honorius was a condemned heretic,

1064
00:59:48,599 --> 00:59:49,760
and I believe Vatican won.

1065
00:59:52,639 --> 00:59:56,239
Speaker 1: Yeah, so there you go. I believe contradictory positions. The

1066
00:59:56,480 --> 01:00:01,360
ecumenical councils can condemn popes excommunicate them, but the Roman

1067
01:00:01,440 --> 01:00:04,000
See never fails, never teaches error, and is never judged

1068
01:00:04,039 --> 01:00:07,360
by anyone. The Roman Sea is judged by no one.

1069
01:00:09,800 --> 01:00:13,360
And Eric just said that Honorrius was a heretic and

1070
01:00:13,639 --> 01:00:19,679
was excommunicated. So, in other words, the papacy is indefectible

1071
01:00:19,920 --> 01:00:22,920
until it defects, which is to say nothing, which is

1072
01:00:22,960 --> 01:00:29,199
to say that it's useless. Now, Luigi's clip is also

1073
01:00:29,480 --> 01:00:31,360
probably the best. I mean, this one is probably the

1074
01:00:31,440 --> 01:00:35,679
strongest point where Eric just gives up. Now, Remember this

1075
01:00:35,880 --> 01:00:39,400
is originally listed as one of the terms or the

1076
01:00:39,480 --> 01:00:44,000
propositions under debate, the papacy of Agilius. So this is

1077
01:00:44,159 --> 01:00:47,239
Eric conceding what was listed originally as one of the

1078
01:00:47,800 --> 01:00:49,400
premisses under debate.

1079
01:00:50,960 --> 01:00:54,480
Speaker 7: Do you think in the case of Saint Silverius, he

1080
01:00:54,599 --> 01:00:58,000
was deposed by Belsarius, he sent to Justinian, finds out

1081
01:00:58,079 --> 01:01:00,960
says you have to give a guy trial. He's handed

1082
01:01:01,039 --> 01:01:06,320
over to Virgilius Virgilious. He was a horrible person. I

1083
01:01:06,360 --> 01:01:08,719
don't know when sounds of it, He's horrible. I mean,

1084
01:01:08,760 --> 01:01:10,880
how does that work out? If Virgilius is the pope

1085
01:01:10,920 --> 01:01:12,760
but he's judging a former pope. That means that the

1086
01:01:12,800 --> 01:01:15,920
deposition of the former pope had to be valid if

1087
01:01:16,000 --> 01:01:19,199
Virgilius is a pope. If Rgilius, if the deposition is

1088
01:01:19,280 --> 01:01:22,320
not invalid and Virgilius is judging him, then you still

1089
01:01:22,360 --> 01:01:24,119
have the situation of a pope being judged by a

1090
01:01:24,159 --> 01:01:24,639
non pope.

1091
01:01:25,360 --> 01:01:27,639
Speaker 2: I'll be candid with you. This is something that I

1092
01:01:27,960 --> 01:01:32,639
have not really had a satisfactory answer to. So I'm

1093
01:01:32,679 --> 01:01:34,880
not really satisfied with my answer to that quote.

1094
01:01:35,199 --> 01:01:39,320
Speaker 1: Oh so, the very thing under debate, the papacy of Vigilius.

1095
01:01:40,719 --> 01:01:42,760
I'm gonna be honest with you. I don't know. Imagine

1096
01:01:42,760 --> 01:01:46,079
if an Orthodox person in a debate said that, literally

1097
01:01:46,119 --> 01:01:48,519
every realmancale would be going crazy. They would all be

1098
01:01:48,800 --> 01:01:53,400
clipping it non stop. We would be hearing about this endlessly.

1099
01:01:53,960 --> 01:01:54,559
Speaker 6: It's over.

1100
01:01:54,880 --> 01:01:59,039
Speaker 9: It's over, bro, or though, Bros, it's over. Pack it

1101
01:01:59,199 --> 01:02:03,800
up Tom to come home to Rome. Their top guy

1102
01:02:04,639 --> 01:02:09,320
literally says about the thing under debate, the papacy of Vigilius.

1103
01:02:09,840 --> 01:02:12,199
Speaker 1: I'm gonna be honest with you. I don't got an

1104
01:02:12,239 --> 01:02:14,719
answer to that, and I don't know. Let's play it

1105
01:02:14,760 --> 01:02:18,440
again for you, hard headed goofballs.

1106
01:02:17,639 --> 01:02:19,840
Speaker 7: The situation of a pope.

1107
01:02:20,559 --> 01:02:21,480
Speaker 4: I'll be candid with you.

1108
01:02:21,800 --> 01:02:24,800
Speaker 2: This is something that I have not really had a

1109
01:02:24,960 --> 01:02:29,119
satisfactory answer to. So I'm not really satisfied with my

1110
01:02:29,199 --> 01:02:30,119
answer to that question.

1111
01:02:31,360 --> 01:02:34,280
Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly. And this is what we've been saying about

1112
01:02:34,320 --> 01:02:37,159
these people all along, and so that I think was

1113
01:02:37,280 --> 01:02:40,760
the key point where I think really it was over.

1114
01:02:41,079 --> 01:02:44,079
I mean, this was the kill shot, because it's not

1115
01:02:44,280 --> 01:02:47,920
just Vigilius. But you understand that Eric's whole premise, as

1116
01:02:47,960 --> 01:02:51,079
we said, was I don't really have to demonstrate the

1117
01:02:51,239 --> 01:02:54,679
Vatican one positions, except that maybe there's a few places

1118
01:02:54,719 --> 01:02:58,719
where you could deduce it. But Eric, you have a

1119
01:02:58,800 --> 01:03:06,400
position that is easily disproven by one dogmatic contradiction. Because

1120
01:03:06,480 --> 01:03:09,639
remember Eric argued earlier that no one judges the first C.

1121
01:03:11,519 --> 01:03:14,519
Now he's admitting that, yeah, you can judge the first C.

1122
01:03:14,719 --> 01:03:16,840
And the first C can be defect. It can defect.

1123
01:03:17,360 --> 01:03:21,119
You can have heretics in the first C. Ecumenical councils,

1124
01:03:21,199 --> 01:03:23,760
judge the first sea, excommunicate popes. He's admitted all this,

1125
01:03:24,760 --> 01:03:29,960
So it's over, Roman bros. It's over. Papal bros. It's

1126
01:03:30,000 --> 01:03:35,280
over for you, guys. And it's over right there. And

1127
01:03:35,440 --> 01:03:39,360
how many years has Eric been doing apologetics about the papacy.

1128
01:03:41,719 --> 01:03:45,920
Maybe ten years now, I'm gonna say around ten years.

1129
01:03:46,199 --> 01:03:48,599
So ten years and he's not got a good answer

1130
01:03:48,679 --> 01:03:55,519
to one of the key arguments about Virgilius. Guys, is

1131
01:03:55,559 --> 01:03:57,559
it time to maybe think about the fact that if

1132
01:03:57,639 --> 01:04:01,960
your own Vatican is admitting all these points, it's over.

1133
01:04:02,599 --> 01:04:06,440
It's over for you, guys. Let's hear this one more time.

1134
01:04:06,639 --> 01:04:08,840
Speaker 7: The situation of a pope judge fighting on pope.

1135
01:04:09,559 --> 01:04:11,840
Speaker 2: I'll be candid with you, this is something that I

1136
01:04:12,119 --> 01:04:16,800
have not really had a satisfactory answer to. So I'm

1137
01:04:16,880 --> 01:04:19,079
not really satisfied with my answer to that question.

1138
01:04:19,280 --> 01:04:21,400
Speaker 1: Oh but the papacy is still true and it's still

1139
01:04:21,519 --> 01:04:24,639
unfalsifiable because maybe there were some quotes that you could read. Now, guys,

1140
01:04:24,719 --> 01:04:26,719
we're going to open it up now to debate. It's

1141
01:04:26,800 --> 01:04:28,360
open for them for anybody wants to call in and

1142
01:04:28,400 --> 01:04:30,760
make an argument and make a case. You want to

1143
01:04:30,840 --> 01:04:35,199
call out this or that position. It's not about personal issues.

1144
01:04:35,239 --> 01:04:38,360
It's about the debates and issues that we're discussing today.

1145
01:04:39,519 --> 01:04:43,000
MKG says, for five dollars, we need three merch t shirts. Unmute,

1146
01:04:43,000 --> 01:04:44,480
Why are you giggling? And how do you know that?

1147
01:04:45,119 --> 01:04:48,840
Those are actually pretty good slogans for I actually agree

1148
01:04:48,880 --> 01:04:53,119
with that. Can I be candid with you? Can I

1149
01:04:53,239 --> 01:04:55,079
more like? Can I be candy with you? If it's

1150
01:04:55,119 --> 01:04:59,199
going to be Eric Candy Candy Ubara anonymous? Fight dollars?

1151
01:04:59,719 --> 01:05:03,280
If you go to Anton Wizbinski's channel, I have no

1152
01:05:03,360 --> 01:05:05,039
idea who Anton Wizbinski is.

1153
01:05:05,559 --> 01:05:06,960
Speaker 10: So uh.

1154
01:05:08,440 --> 01:05:10,599
Speaker 1: By the way, is the stream still working? My computer

1155
01:05:10,760 --> 01:05:15,360
is getting overheated with all of the By the way,

1156
01:05:15,400 --> 01:05:18,280
here's ubi's forgeries video. Give you that, give you guys

1157
01:05:18,360 --> 01:05:22,199
that as well? Uh is streamline is still streaming? I

1158
01:05:22,239 --> 01:05:26,039
can't tell. Can you guys still see me? I like

1159
01:05:26,079 --> 01:05:27,920
how Eric just kind of like gave up right there.

1160
01:05:28,639 --> 01:05:31,800
I'll be honest with you. I just don't really know.

1161
01:05:32,480 --> 01:05:35,559
But uh, you should still believe in the papercy though,

1162
01:05:35,719 --> 01:05:37,440
because I wrote a book about it and I don't

1163
01:05:37,440 --> 01:05:40,159
want to admit I'm roll and it would be humiliating.

1164
01:05:43,360 --> 01:05:46,440
Harry Sarpanos one dollar. Here's the full video. Thank you

1165
01:05:48,039 --> 01:05:51,159
for that west Huff debate. I appreciate that, m KG

1166
01:05:51,320 --> 01:05:53,039
five dollars. What do you think about wes Huff? I

1167
01:05:53,239 --> 01:05:55,719
don't know any think about him? So that that was

1168
01:05:55,800 --> 01:05:59,360
my first exposure to wes Huff. Is the is the

1169
01:05:59,440 --> 01:06:01,679
video still because my strength? Okay, good, we guess can

1170
01:06:01,719 --> 01:06:06,000
still see me? And then I'll just ignore that s

1171
01:06:06,280 --> 01:06:09,440
l I D five A F four six A E

1172
01:06:09,719 --> 01:06:14,280
B sixteen one dollar. The Billy Billy, Billy Corgan. I

1173
01:06:14,360 --> 01:06:18,320
keep wanting to say, Billy Corgan, the wild is a vampire,

1174
01:06:19,000 --> 01:06:26,639
the wild is a black peyramid. I'd rather have Billy Corgan.

1175
01:06:26,840 --> 01:06:29,679
How about we have Billy Corgan debate Billy corson.

1176
01:06:32,320 --> 01:06:35,519
Speaker 6: Yan secret destroyer.

1177
01:06:37,719 --> 01:06:45,760
Speaker 1: Y even no, no, I'm gonna have to work on

1178
01:06:45,800 --> 01:06:47,679
my Billy Corgan. I did a Billy Corgan impression to

1179
01:06:47,760 --> 01:06:52,679
Jamie other day. It was actually pretty good. But even though, no,

1180
01:06:53,679 --> 01:06:56,719
I have to work on it. But would you all

1181
01:06:56,800 --> 01:06:58,519
like to who would win in a a Billy Carson

1182
01:06:58,599 --> 01:07:03,480
Billy Corgan debate? They could Billy Carr, they could go

1183
01:07:03,559 --> 01:07:08,480
out smashing pumpkins together afterwards, Uh Billy Billy Billy uh

1184
01:07:08,679 --> 01:07:13,000
uh Corson could like he could like fly his pyramid

1185
01:07:13,199 --> 01:07:16,480
and squash a bunch of pumpkins with a giant we

1186
01:07:16,719 --> 01:07:20,519
was King's pyramid, and then Billy Billy Corgan could take

1187
01:07:20,559 --> 01:07:24,599
his guitar and smash pumpkins. That that sounds like a

1188
01:07:24,840 --> 01:07:28,119
party right there. Funk, go fanatic three dollars. Oh wait,

1189
01:07:29,000 --> 01:07:32,480
if you watch the first twenty minutes, that will be

1190
01:07:32,840 --> 01:07:37,000
Billy Carson's first last debate with any Christians. Yeah exactly, funk,

1191
01:07:37,039 --> 01:07:40,920
go fanatic three dollars. What's you're wrong about? Billy Corson?

1192
01:07:41,480 --> 01:07:44,320
The Sinai Bibles say Jesus was at crucified and he

1193
01:07:44,440 --> 01:07:48,280
have a wife. Educate yourself exactly exactly. I need to

1194
01:07:48,519 --> 01:07:51,639
get back into that that I need I need that Zeitgest.

1195
01:07:52,719 --> 01:07:56,119
But the remix Billy Carson is basically a remix of

1196
01:07:56,280 --> 01:07:59,920
zeit Geist. He's the chopped and screwed version of zich

1197
01:08:00,559 --> 01:08:03,320
adam Anti's one dollar Yo. Jay, I'm rewatching your to

1198
01:08:03,400 --> 01:08:06,800
borrow debate from back in the day. For the third time.

1199
01:08:07,119 --> 01:08:11,639
I actually think you clapped his cheeks. Hum, what do

1200
01:08:11,719 --> 01:08:15,400
you recommend that I read to debunk the idea that

1201
01:08:15,639 --> 01:08:19,159
popes can be heretics. Well, I'm not going to recommend

1202
01:08:19,239 --> 01:08:21,600
you read anything that debunks the ideas that pope can

1203
01:08:21,600 --> 01:08:23,880
be heretics popes because I think they can and you

1204
01:08:24,000 --> 01:08:25,399
just heard Erica Borris say they can.

1205
01:08:25,600 --> 01:08:26,640
Speaker 10: So. Uh.

1206
01:08:26,840 --> 01:08:29,479
Speaker 1: Bradon Moore is five dollars a day. Tell slowboy, whiteboard.

1207
01:08:29,800 --> 01:08:33,000
I'm sorry. I promise I wasn't going to build a tower.

1208
01:08:33,760 --> 01:08:36,199
Thanks for all that you do. I'm attending Orthodox Church.

1209
01:08:36,600 --> 01:08:38,640
I want to become a Catechuman soon. God bless you

1210
01:08:38,720 --> 01:08:41,439
and Jamie. Keep singing your funko pop gospel. Thank you,

1211
01:08:41,600 --> 01:08:44,880
We'll do liturgical funko monk ten dollars. I really love

1212
01:08:44,920 --> 01:08:46,960
your content. Jay. Thank you for introducing me Orthodox and

1213
01:08:47,000 --> 01:08:50,039
getting away from the grasp.

1214
01:08:49,800 --> 01:08:51,600
Speaker 6: Of Matt de la monkey.

1215
01:08:52,720 --> 01:08:57,800
Speaker 1: You climbed up in that tree. Thank you the black Man.

1216
01:08:57,960 --> 01:08:58,680
Speaker 6: Ten dollars?

1217
01:08:59,159 --> 01:09:05,520
Speaker 1: Do you plan on watching billy exposed video coming out?

1218
01:09:05,600 --> 01:09:12,439
At seven? Oh? Am? I watching Billy's exposing video at seven?

1219
01:09:13,439 --> 01:09:18,159
Billy Carson? I don't know what you're talking about, Billy.

1220
01:09:20,960 --> 01:09:26,760
So is Billy Carson gonna expose west Huff Casper Van

1221
01:09:26,840 --> 01:09:36,399
Diem at seven? Where do we even follow Billy? He's

1222
01:09:36,439 --> 01:09:43,000
got a half a million subscribers on Instagram. That's crazy, dude. Oh,

1223
01:09:43,479 --> 01:09:48,359
he got six hundred and sixty six k over here

1224
01:09:49,520 --> 01:09:54,520
on YouTube. So you said he's about to drop an

1225
01:09:54,600 --> 01:10:02,399
exposed video. Where's he dropping his exposed video? I don't

1226
01:10:02,399 --> 01:10:04,399
I can't find this. Let's see, let's go to his website.

1227
01:10:04,439 --> 01:10:06,239
What's he got going on over here on his website?

1228
01:10:07,119 --> 01:10:10,079
I need a master course. I need a master course

1229
01:10:10,159 --> 01:10:16,600
and Forbidden Knowledge learning, Crypto experiences, Alien Ink. Look at

1230
01:10:16,600 --> 01:10:23,199
all this nonsense Alien encounters, Joe Rogan, PbD, I mean,

1231
01:10:23,359 --> 01:10:26,000
look look at all the people that have had this

1232
01:10:26,159 --> 01:10:32,760
goof us on Rogan, Sean Ryan Schultz.

1233
01:10:32,439 --> 01:10:32,680
Speaker 10: Like, what.

1234
01:10:35,000 --> 01:10:38,319
Speaker 1: Where's his exposed They're gonna He's gonna expose thembody. Who's

1235
01:10:38,319 --> 01:10:39,960
he gonna expose wes Huff.

1236
01:10:41,640 --> 01:10:41,960
Speaker 6: Where are you?

1237
01:10:42,319 --> 01:10:44,640
Speaker 1: I don't know what you're talking about, but it does

1238
01:10:44,680 --> 01:10:49,279
sound like fun to watch his video roll stake ten dollars.

1239
01:10:49,319 --> 01:10:51,880
Here's ten dollars for you to drop the hottest Matt

1240
01:10:52,000 --> 01:10:55,119
Frad track on this side of the hemisphere for twenty

1241
01:10:55,199 --> 01:11:00,520
twenty four. I might drop a Mad Frad track. Mad

1242
01:11:00,800 --> 01:11:05,279
Frad track, we'll see Elijah Yassi who is a conciliust

1243
01:11:05,439 --> 01:11:09,359
heretic and Drews induced a new distinction. This is kitty

1244
01:11:09,399 --> 01:11:12,560
cat fi dollars. Yassi says that number one, the pope

1245
01:11:12,600 --> 01:11:16,239
teaching on fourth faith and morals is one distinction versus

1246
01:11:16,840 --> 01:11:19,359
the Pope trying to bind the church on a teaching

1247
01:11:19,399 --> 01:11:22,039
of faith and morals. He thinks this gets out of

1248
01:11:22,119 --> 01:11:26,880
the Honorius problem. If the First c is judged by

1249
01:11:27,000 --> 01:11:29,720
no One, and then Ecumenical Council judges the first Sea,

1250
01:11:30,239 --> 01:11:32,800
he can make up all the distinctions he wants. Anonymous

1251
01:11:32,840 --> 01:11:35,399
three dollars. In your opinion, if you stack bitcoin, does

1252
01:11:35,479 --> 01:11:39,079
this undo the need for an ira? What about an

1253
01:11:39,119 --> 01:11:40,000
ira from Swan?

1254
01:11:40,159 --> 01:11:40,560
Speaker 6: I don't know.

1255
01:11:40,760 --> 01:11:43,520
Speaker 1: I've been thinking about that. I mean, there's probably gonna

1256
01:11:43,520 --> 01:11:46,880
be advantages and disadvantages to either route. But I mean,

1257
01:11:46,880 --> 01:11:50,239
you can do a bitcoin ira verrella the second three

1258
01:11:50,319 --> 01:11:53,439
dollars and your research if you across anything that suggests

1259
01:11:53,439 --> 01:11:56,439
that there's a connection between Vatican One and the Napoleonic

1260
01:11:56,640 --> 01:11:58,920
Court dot of eighteen oh one. I haven't found anything.

1261
01:12:03,840 --> 01:12:06,399
It's hinted at in the spy book that I'm reading, right,

1262
01:12:06,640 --> 01:12:09,600
it doesn't, but it doesn't. It doesn't mention Vatican One,

1263
01:12:09,720 --> 01:12:13,920
but it mentions Napoleon and the Vatican and their connection,

1264
01:12:14,159 --> 01:12:17,079
and you know, this kind of stuff going on. But

1265
01:12:17,159 --> 01:12:19,960
I don't know. It's a really interesting question. You would

1266
01:12:19,960 --> 01:12:23,199
probably need to ask a historian a Vatican one in Napoleon.

1267
01:12:24,199 --> 01:12:27,079
I'm not a historian on that topic. Really, Anonymous five dollars,

1268
01:12:27,119 --> 01:12:30,119
I've been struggling with the evidence of human existence for

1269
01:12:30,239 --> 01:12:32,760
hundreds of thousands of years. All you got to do

1270
01:12:32,880 --> 01:12:35,960
is watch Billy corson'd all. He will prove to you

1271
01:12:36,680 --> 01:12:40,760
our ancient alien god origins. How can you fit that

1272
01:12:40,800 --> 01:12:43,720
into the narrative of the of the Fall? If death

1273
01:12:43,760 --> 01:12:48,560
pre existed, Adam, I've never seen a rebuttal Yeah, well,

1274
01:12:48,560 --> 01:12:52,640
I don't believe in AONs of existence of billions of

1275
01:12:52,760 --> 01:12:54,880
years and all that stuff. That's just a myth and

1276
01:12:55,000 --> 01:12:59,399
narrative of the the Soy science man Dave one dollar

1277
01:12:59,479 --> 01:13:02,039
and six cent. So there's a difference between Orthodox churches.

1278
01:13:02,840 --> 01:13:06,920
It's called jurisdiction. Yes, I'm not being rude. I'm saying, yeah,

1279
01:13:06,920 --> 01:13:10,199
there's different jurisdictions. There's not a Russian church where I live.

1280
01:13:10,239 --> 01:13:12,359
Should I go to the Coptic Church? No, the Coptic

1281
01:13:12,520 --> 01:13:14,800
Church is not part of the Orthodox Church. They're a

1282
01:13:15,760 --> 01:13:19,840
schismatic group. Should I go to a different church or

1283
01:13:19,880 --> 01:13:23,239
a Russian Orthodox Church? Well, any of the Orthodox churches,

1284
01:13:23,840 --> 01:13:27,520
meaning the canonical Orthodox churches. Balou one dollar. What about

1285
01:13:27,600 --> 01:13:33,319
quantum authority? Maybe the pope possesses quantum authority and retroactively

1286
01:13:33,479 --> 01:13:41,159
he can give himself through retroactive causation ancient authority. That's

1287
01:13:41,880 --> 01:13:44,760
an argument that the I'm surprised though, I mean they

1288
01:13:44,800 --> 01:13:48,399
went with the Baysian spreadsheet argument for the papacy. They

1289
01:13:48,479 --> 01:13:53,119
went with all kinds of crazy stuff. Wait until we

1290
01:13:53,239 --> 01:13:57,920
have a quantum papacy apologist. I mean, Romancuyes believe anything.

1291
01:13:58,119 --> 01:14:01,039
They could. They could set up an AI that argues

1292
01:14:01,119 --> 01:14:06,199
for quantum papal apologetics and they'll believe it. I like

1293
01:14:06,279 --> 01:14:10,359
that in fact, I might create an AI and use PayPal.

1294
01:14:10,479 --> 01:14:15,359
Quantum Apologetics Anonymous three dollars. Considering the sinister doings of

1295
01:14:15,479 --> 01:14:17,279
big tech and the technic credit lead, what, in your

1296
01:14:17,279 --> 01:14:19,800
opinion should we as truth seekers do? Should we not

1297
01:14:19,880 --> 01:14:24,239
be using smartphones, et cetera. I mean, you can choose

1298
01:14:24,319 --> 01:14:26,319
to not use a smartphone. It's just gonna be difficult

1299
01:14:26,359 --> 01:14:28,000
to get around in the world. I don't know. I

1300
01:14:28,079 --> 01:14:30,640
mean maybe there is an argument to be made for that,

1301
01:14:30,760 --> 01:14:34,399
and maybe switching away from smartphones to you know, just

1302
01:14:34,560 --> 01:14:38,880
using your laptop and having a We've contemplated going back

1303
01:14:38,960 --> 01:14:41,079
to flip phones. I mean, I think you can still

1304
01:14:41,079 --> 01:14:44,159
get flip phones. So do all your buziness on your

1305
01:14:44,800 --> 01:14:48,840
laptop or whatever and then do your you know, just

1306
01:14:48,960 --> 01:14:50,840
don't have us. Maybe there's an argument you made for

1307
01:14:51,079 --> 01:14:54,039
not having a smartphone, something to consider. Harry Sapanos three dollars.

1308
01:14:54,359 --> 01:14:56,319
You nail all the track casts today. God bless you Jay.

1309
01:14:56,359 --> 01:14:58,159
Thank you for all this comedy too. Hey, thank you

1310
01:14:58,199 --> 01:15:00,920
Harry Sapanos, much appreciated. I don't remind you too that

1311
01:15:01,239 --> 01:15:03,439
before we open it up, you can head on over

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1319
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1320
01:15:31,399 --> 01:15:33,520
would say, you got to combine this with the gem.

1321
01:15:33,800 --> 01:15:34,920
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1322
01:15:35,039 --> 01:15:37,520
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1323
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1331
01:16:01,680 --> 01:16:04,600
So again J A y four four L I f E.

1332
01:16:05,239 --> 01:16:08,479
Billy Corson, My boy, Billy Corson over there with a

1333
01:16:08,600 --> 01:16:12,039
quant Maybe we should make Billy corson the quantum Pope,

1334
01:16:12,760 --> 01:16:17,000
and then he can elect Billy Corgan to be vice Pope.

1335
01:16:17,840 --> 01:16:22,680
Speaker 11: That sounds based and tried. The world is a vampire.

1336
01:16:28,199 --> 01:16:30,039
The pope is a vampire.

1337
01:16:35,520 --> 01:16:40,640
Speaker 6: Even though no I supposed.

1338
01:16:42,680 --> 01:16:48,840
Speaker 1: How's that that's better that Billy Corgan messing up my

1339
01:16:49,000 --> 01:16:59,239
vocal Corse Billy Corgan. Despite all my rage, I am

1340
01:16:59,359 --> 01:17:07,319
still just I couldn't think of anything trying to tie

1341
01:17:07,319 --> 01:17:09,600
it in to today's discussion. I know I can't think

1342
01:17:09,640 --> 01:17:13,039
of anything anyway. All right, we're gonna open it up.

1343
01:17:14,000 --> 01:17:17,479
That's enough clowning around. Enough clowning. By the way, I'm

1344
01:17:17,520 --> 01:17:23,119
almost at one hundred k y'all on Twitter obviously. If

1345
01:17:23,159 --> 01:17:25,399
you want to support help me out, follow me over

1346
01:17:25,439 --> 01:17:27,600
here on x there's the link right there. Help me

1347
01:17:27,680 --> 01:17:31,439
get up to one k. We're at eighty eight point six.

1348
01:17:31,560 --> 01:17:33,479
By the way, did y'all see my Lord Baldemore. I

1349
01:17:33,520 --> 01:17:36,520
thought it was a pretty good Lord Baltimore. I mean,

1350
01:17:38,279 --> 01:17:40,159
I don't know if I can judge myself over there,

1351
01:17:40,239 --> 01:17:42,920
but this was a pretty good Lord Baltimore. If y'all

1352
01:17:42,920 --> 01:17:45,600
didn't see you, go check it out. If you missed

1353
01:17:45,680 --> 01:17:50,000
my high profile interview with Jessica Reid Krauss. She's massive

1354
01:17:50,079 --> 01:17:53,600
over on Instagram, massive over on substack million on Instagram,

1355
01:17:53,680 --> 01:17:56,359
five hundred k on Subsat. We talked about her journey

1356
01:17:56,399 --> 01:17:59,199
out of the Left Death Cult. So you got prominent

1357
01:17:59,279 --> 01:18:03,640
people leaving. She calls it a left Death colt. Go

1358
01:18:03,880 --> 01:18:07,359
check out that interview with her. Oh here's a grip,

1359
01:18:07,399 --> 01:18:12,600
but flashback. Pope Francis twenty fourteen. Marxist and Christians have

1360
01:18:12,680 --> 01:18:17,319
a common mission to work together. I mean guys Roman

1361
01:18:17,399 --> 01:18:22,199
Catholics like bruh, Like what more do you need? Like

1362
01:18:22,520 --> 01:18:24,520
literally every day, this guy's trying to tell y'all to

1363
01:18:24,560 --> 01:18:32,239
become Orthodox. All right, where are we at? Ac ten dollars?

1364
01:18:32,600 --> 01:18:32,800
Speaker 6: Jay?

1365
01:18:34,079 --> 01:18:37,239
Speaker 1: Everything I made on hawk Tua. Oh, he'saing a hawk

1366
01:18:37,279 --> 01:18:40,159
Tua coin ten bucks. I made a joke. I said,

1367
01:18:40,159 --> 01:18:43,279
I'm I'm gonna buy I'm gonna dump all my bitcoin.

1368
01:18:44,399 --> 01:18:46,960
I'm gonna buy all the hawk Tua coins up while

1369
01:18:46,960 --> 01:18:49,039
they're on this dip, while they're on this ninety nine

1370
01:18:49,039 --> 01:18:52,640
percent dip. After that rug pool, then with when hawk

1371
01:18:52,720 --> 01:18:56,479
Tua goes back up, I'm gonna buy all the bitcoin

1372
01:18:57,760 --> 01:19:01,359
and then I'm a fire Mike Michael Saylor and people

1373
01:19:01,439 --> 01:19:03,119
were like, are you being serious?

1374
01:19:04,600 --> 01:19:04,680
Speaker 10: Bro?

1375
01:19:06,840 --> 01:19:11,520
Speaker 1: Just to go check yourself into the homeless encampment. There's

1376
01:19:11,520 --> 01:19:13,319
no hope for you. If you thought I was being serious,

1377
01:19:13,560 --> 01:19:16,720
just give up, man, Just go enter a monasterious It's

1378
01:19:16,760 --> 01:19:20,079
over for you. Give up, man, Just give I'm just joking.

1379
01:19:21,439 --> 01:19:23,079
But some people were like, you got to be careful.

1380
01:19:23,079 --> 01:19:26,279
People think you're being serious? Like, who couldn't see that

1381
01:19:26,359 --> 01:19:28,119
was a rug? Pot okay, if you're that stupid to

1382
01:19:28,199 --> 01:19:32,640
think that, I mean, I feel sorry for y'all. Catholic

1383
01:19:32,640 --> 01:19:36,840
becoming Orthodox Street dollars? Are most religions neoplatonic and all

1384
01:19:37,520 --> 01:19:43,279
naturalism leads to nietzsche But the orthodox essence scenery distinction

1385
01:19:43,399 --> 01:19:47,720
answers a lot of deep philosophical conflicts. I don't know

1386
01:19:47,760 --> 01:19:50,560
if all the religions are basically neoplatonic. I think a

1387
01:19:50,600 --> 01:19:56,279
lot of religions have a similar structure or are influenced

1388
01:19:56,279 --> 01:19:59,720
by Neoplatonism. But a lot of religions are older than

1389
01:19:59,800 --> 01:20:04,560
Neil platonistm So no, I wouldn't say that does naturalism

1390
01:20:04,760 --> 01:20:10,039
lead to Nietzscheanism. I mean, possibly it could easily logically

1391
01:20:10,159 --> 01:20:13,159
lead there, but I don't think that it necessarily leads

1392
01:20:13,159 --> 01:20:17,039
there it could lead to I don't know. It leads

1393
01:20:17,079 --> 01:20:19,960
you in a lot of different directions. I do think

1394
01:20:20,039 --> 01:20:23,479
the Asincenarty distinction answers a lot of philosophical dilemmas, but

1395
01:20:23,640 --> 01:20:28,479
maybe not all of them. Quantum coupmenter five dollars, Eric

1396
01:20:28,560 --> 01:20:31,840
Abar really missed the chance to expound quantum papal theory.

1397
01:20:32,840 --> 01:20:35,800
I can't wait for Francis to update or to drop

1398
01:20:35,880 --> 01:20:38,640
that update. Yeah, exactly how long until we see like

1399
01:20:39,600 --> 01:20:42,880
quantum papal theory. I mean this is like we're we're

1400
01:20:42,920 --> 01:20:48,119
in the domain of my skit, like the Pope in

1401
01:20:48,159 --> 01:20:50,880
the future. Does everybody remember my skit? I mean, we're

1402
01:20:50,920 --> 01:20:55,319
in this domain of Pope of the future, like it's

1403
01:20:55,439 --> 01:21:03,479
now coming to fruition. Remember this.

1404
01:21:07,199 --> 01:21:11,359
Speaker 12: As you strive to understand the words I speak to

1405
01:21:11,439 --> 01:21:19,920
you with your chemical soup primordial chemical soup brain.

1406
01:21:36,800 --> 01:21:39,000
Speaker 1: That's supposed to be a monkey, that's supposed to be

1407
01:21:39,039 --> 01:21:41,880
a monkey. Sound anyway, if you want to check out this,

1408
01:21:42,760 --> 01:21:44,760
I mean, they might as well just go into this

1409
01:21:44,920 --> 01:21:47,520
domain of it like I mean Francis, Like Francis took

1410
01:21:47,600 --> 01:21:51,399
us to the to the quantum cope of the future domain.

1411
01:21:51,439 --> 01:21:56,560
I mean, next up, is they should meld Billy Carson

1412
01:21:56,600 --> 01:21:59,960
and Billy Corgan into an AI, and that should be

1413
01:22:00,079 --> 01:22:06,800
the Pope, Billy Corgson as the Pope of the future,

1414
01:22:06,880 --> 01:22:10,520
as an AI. That's the quantum Pope that I was

1415
01:22:10,560 --> 01:22:15,520
predicting in this prophetic sketch right here. Ac since twenty

1416
01:22:15,920 --> 01:22:18,359
bucks and says bro who cares if the pope said

1417
01:22:18,399 --> 01:22:23,760
that we should work with Marxists and has a gay pilgrimage.

1418
01:22:25,600 --> 01:22:29,880
He also one times, one time made fun of the skittles,

1419
01:22:30,439 --> 01:22:39,880
so he is a grype r obviously. Well, yeah, Francis

1420
01:22:39,960 --> 01:22:42,560
throws a bone to the trads every now and then

1421
01:22:42,680 --> 01:22:44,279
to just keep them on the hook. And it works.

1422
01:22:44,319 --> 01:22:47,199
It works perfectly so and it's funny because even Tim

1423
01:22:47,239 --> 01:22:50,239
Gordon says that he throws a bone to them and

1424
01:22:50,399 --> 01:22:56,560
they still eat it up. All right, let's open that up. Disagreements,

1425
01:22:56,640 --> 01:23:02,159
debates questions. We got five people on line. FDA is

1426
01:23:02,199 --> 01:23:04,279
with us, still, thank you to FDA. Let's say, first

1427
01:23:04,399 --> 01:23:06,840
up is average inquirer. What's up dude?

1428
01:23:12,760 --> 01:23:13,000
Speaker 6: Hello?

1429
01:23:13,159 --> 01:23:13,359
Speaker 5: Jay?

1430
01:23:13,600 --> 01:23:18,680
Speaker 13: Hey, So I've can I ask like a super short

1431
01:23:18,760 --> 01:23:21,439
question before, like my question on Roman Catholicism in one

1432
01:23:21,479 --> 01:23:25,720
of their arguments, Sure, would you ever consider doing a

1433
01:23:25,800 --> 01:23:29,640
collaboration with doctor Nathan Jacobs, because I really like his

1434
01:23:30,279 --> 01:23:32,880
orthodox philosophy and I'm curious if you'd ever be willing

1435
01:23:32,920 --> 01:23:33,720
to engage with him.

1436
01:23:34,159 --> 01:23:36,359
Speaker 1: Yeah, FDA is good friends with him, and I think

1437
01:23:36,520 --> 01:23:40,119
FDA just had him to speak at Montanica, So I'm

1438
01:23:40,159 --> 01:23:41,560
always open to that. Yeah, for sure.

1439
01:23:42,079 --> 01:23:42,680
Speaker 4: Oh awesome.

1440
01:23:42,840 --> 01:23:45,920
Speaker 13: Yeah, I've never heard his full take on epistemology and tag,

1441
01:23:46,039 --> 01:23:48,119
so I would love to hear a conversation about that.

1442
01:23:48,359 --> 01:23:48,520
Speaker 6: Yeah.

1443
01:23:48,560 --> 01:23:50,199
Speaker 1: The thing is, with a lot of these people, I

1444
01:23:50,319 --> 01:23:53,319
never know whether they like me or not, because you know,

1445
01:23:53,439 --> 01:23:55,800
people think, oh, he's controversial. I don't even think I'm

1446
01:23:55,840 --> 01:23:58,319
that controversial. But you know, I never I never know

1447
01:23:58,439 --> 01:24:01,760
if this person you know, secretly hates me or I

1448
01:24:01,840 --> 01:24:04,119
don't have no reason to think that. I've never talked

1449
01:24:04,159 --> 01:24:05,399
to him, I don't know him.

1450
01:24:05,680 --> 01:24:06,359
Speaker 10: So but.

1451
01:24:08,199 --> 01:24:10,600
Speaker 1: Okay, cool, I'm not aposed to that at all.

1452
01:24:11,640 --> 01:24:12,560
Speaker 10: Yeah, that would be awesome.

1453
01:24:12,640 --> 01:24:12,920
Speaker 6: Okay.

1454
01:24:13,399 --> 01:24:15,560
Speaker 13: And then, so one thing I've seen a lot of

1455
01:24:15,760 --> 01:24:18,800
Roman Catholics commenting on about the whole debate thing is

1456
01:24:18,880 --> 01:24:23,720
that UBI has a sort of manufactured ecclesiology because they

1457
01:24:23,800 --> 01:24:26,159
claim that there's different sex with an orthodoxy, where you

1458
01:24:26,279 --> 01:24:29,960
have some who argue this form of pentarchy, and then

1459
01:24:30,520 --> 01:24:33,439
others who say that there's all these different normative means

1460
01:24:33,960 --> 01:24:35,680
means for understanding what is.

1461
01:24:35,680 --> 01:24:38,159
Speaker 10: A true counsel and what isn't. And they say, well,

1462
01:24:38,239 --> 01:24:38,560
we have.

1463
01:24:38,680 --> 01:24:43,039
Speaker 13: A principle that says that Jesus established a means by

1464
01:24:43,039 --> 01:24:47,399
determined to determine a true counsel, and orthodox don't have it,

1465
01:24:47,520 --> 01:24:49,640
and they have all these different opinions.

1466
01:24:49,800 --> 01:24:51,800
Speaker 10: So I'd like to know what your basic.

1467
01:24:51,560 --> 01:24:52,159
Speaker 6: Thought is on that.

1468
01:24:52,880 --> 01:24:56,600
Speaker 1: Well, I mean, the Roman Catholic world is split as

1469
01:24:56,640 --> 01:25:00,159
to whether a Vatican two is acceptable dogmatic, is it

1470
01:25:00,279 --> 01:25:03,880
half dogmatic? Does it have documents that you can reject?

1471
01:25:04,199 --> 01:25:07,159
I mean, so how has that worked out with Vatican two?

1472
01:25:07,520 --> 01:25:11,159
And again they're confusing two different topics. The fact that

1473
01:25:11,239 --> 01:25:14,000
within the world of Orthodoxy people have theological debates and

1474
01:25:14,039 --> 01:25:18,119
disagreements doesn't mean that we don't have a means of certitude.

1475
01:25:18,560 --> 01:25:21,079
So they're confusing just like Protestants too, just like a

1476
01:25:21,119 --> 01:25:25,000
lot of people do individual certitude with the idea of

1477
01:25:25,279 --> 01:25:29,399
normative authority in history. So the fact that there's normative authority,

1478
01:25:29,439 --> 01:25:32,600
that Jesus gave the church a means by which people

1479
01:25:32,680 --> 01:25:36,000
could be bound to a certain interpretation, namely, for us,

1480
01:25:36,039 --> 01:25:40,319
the College of Bishops, the ecumenical councils, et cetera. For

1481
01:25:40,399 --> 01:25:42,760
the Roman Catholic it's the papacy. Like you're not in

1482
01:25:42,840 --> 01:25:45,520
any better position. It sounds on the surface like it

1483
01:25:45,600 --> 01:25:47,960
might be a better position because we just go with

1484
01:25:48,039 --> 01:25:51,119
what that guy says, But in actual fact, in history

1485
01:25:51,199 --> 01:25:54,439
and in the twentieth century especially, how has that it

1486
01:25:54,479 --> 01:25:57,000
doesn't actually work in practice. It's a thing in theory,

1487
01:25:57,680 --> 01:26:00,399
but in practice it doesn't get you in any better position.

1488
01:26:00,520 --> 01:26:03,199
Because let me give an example, why is there not

1489
01:26:03,800 --> 01:26:07,840
a dogmatic statement about what the dogmatic statements are?

1490
01:26:10,159 --> 01:26:12,239
Speaker 13: Yeah, I think I think I've heard you bring that

1491
01:26:12,560 --> 01:26:14,840
up before, whereas some people will like bring up Dnsing

1492
01:26:14,960 --> 01:26:17,560
or dogma, But there's it's not actually a dogmatized list

1493
01:26:17,640 --> 01:26:19,359
of popes or dogmatized.

1494
01:26:18,840 --> 01:26:20,199
Speaker 10: List of dogmatic students.

1495
01:26:20,319 --> 01:26:22,840
Speaker 1: No, no, it's and it's much more than Danzinger. There's

1496
01:26:22,880 --> 01:26:25,600
more than just Dnsinger that you're bound by, because Danzinger

1497
01:26:25,720 --> 01:26:30,720
just has papal affirmations, but there's also the ecimitical councils,

1498
01:26:30,800 --> 01:26:33,439
there's also encyclicals. None of that's in Dnzinger.

1499
01:26:35,680 --> 01:26:37,760
Speaker 10: Yeah, Okay, that's all. That's all a very good point.

1500
01:26:38,039 --> 01:26:38,560
Speaker 4: Thank you for that.

1501
01:26:39,039 --> 01:26:41,239
Speaker 13: And then I'm on, I just want to do a

1502
01:26:41,319 --> 01:26:43,119
quick aside on the topic of.

1503
01:26:43,239 --> 01:26:44,560
Speaker 10: Cell phones, which you just brought up.

1504
01:26:45,239 --> 01:26:47,680
Speaker 13: Luke Smith, who Kyle just interviewed, does a lot of

1505
01:26:47,760 --> 01:26:52,680
content about like disconnecting from technology, and he uses Graphinos.

1506
01:26:52,920 --> 01:26:55,560
I use it too, as a sort of dumb phone

1507
01:26:55,640 --> 01:26:58,159
with like a few simple apps, and I think you

1508
01:26:58,239 --> 01:27:01,000
might want to look into his content on disconnecting from

1509
01:27:01,000 --> 01:27:01,399
that stuff.

1510
01:27:01,479 --> 01:27:04,159
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's a good idea. We we'll definitely check that out.

1511
01:27:06,279 --> 01:27:08,399
Speaker 13: So he does a lot of content on like why

1512
01:27:08,520 --> 01:27:10,640
he thinks from an arrow is the future of cryptocurrency

1513
01:27:10,720 --> 01:27:13,239
rather than bitcoin, so I think you might also find

1514
01:27:13,279 --> 01:27:13,920
that interesting.

1515
01:27:14,600 --> 01:27:17,199
Speaker 1: Yeah. The problem with this is and I'm not against

1516
01:27:17,239 --> 01:27:19,399
hearing his case or his arguments, thank you for that,

1517
01:27:19,800 --> 01:27:24,920
average Ortho inquirer. But the problem is that bitcoin is

1518
01:27:24,920 --> 01:27:28,479
already way ahead of all of these other options. And

1519
01:27:28,680 --> 01:27:36,159
bitcoin is also already sort of been accepted by institutions. Now.

1520
01:27:36,920 --> 01:27:38,680
I know that that's a double edged sword because a

1521
01:27:38,720 --> 01:27:41,119
lot of us don't like the institutions and the government

1522
01:27:41,159 --> 01:27:45,800
of the state. But for anything to become the global standard,

1523
01:27:46,479 --> 01:27:48,800
it's going to have to overcome that hurdle, and the

1524
01:27:48,880 --> 01:27:52,920
problem with the extreme privacy option coins is that they're

1525
01:27:53,039 --> 01:27:56,199
never going to get over that hurdle which Bitcoin has

1526
01:27:56,359 --> 01:28:01,199
just gotten over. So the point is that realists, I

1527
01:28:01,359 --> 01:28:07,800
don't think there's any real case scenario where Monaro overtakes

1528
01:28:07,880 --> 01:28:13,159
Bitcoin or replaces Bitcoin. It's already way ahead, and to

1529
01:28:13,279 --> 01:28:15,560
get to the point where Bitcoin is, it's going to

1530
01:28:15,600 --> 01:28:19,479
be a huge, massive hurdle. And usually the people who

1531
01:28:19,520 --> 01:28:21,920
are arguing that Monaro will do this or could do this,

1532
01:28:22,239 --> 01:28:27,279
I think, in my opinion, are extremely idealistic. Maybe maybe

1533
01:28:27,319 --> 01:28:32,520
they have a case about extreme privacy coins, but I've

1534
01:28:32,520 --> 01:28:35,039
been saying people try to convince me a monarrow since

1535
01:28:35,159 --> 01:28:39,520
twenty seventeen when I got into this, and I've never

1536
01:28:39,640 --> 01:28:43,399
seen anybody give me a good reasonabley. I'm glad that

1537
01:28:43,520 --> 01:28:47,560
I didn't buy into their arguments. I would be way

1538
01:28:48,479 --> 01:28:52,239
worse off had I listened to all the Monarow people.

1539
01:28:54,479 --> 01:28:58,880
And the problem is that in the trilemma, anything you sacrifice,

1540
01:28:59,399 --> 01:29:01,399
there's going to be heavy price for any of those things.

1541
01:29:02,199 --> 01:29:03,920
For example, a lot of people tell you that, oh,

1542
01:29:03,960 --> 01:29:06,359
bitcoin is not going to be the future because the

1543
01:29:06,560 --> 01:29:09,479
of the it doesn't have the speed and the scalability,

1544
01:29:10,159 --> 01:29:12,279
but your sacrifice when you when you go in the

1545
01:29:12,319 --> 01:29:15,800
direction of speed, you're sacrificing the other things, right, You're

1546
01:29:15,880 --> 01:29:23,000
sacrificing you know, decentralization or perhaps security, uh and encryption.

1547
01:29:24,199 --> 01:29:26,119
So that's why everybody's always trying to find the best

1548
01:29:26,199 --> 01:29:29,760
option of the three, the three of the trilemma. I

1549
01:29:29,840 --> 01:29:32,840
think bitcoin is still the best option overall. And even

1550
01:29:33,199 --> 01:29:36,119
if everybody's already on board to the point of two

1551
01:29:36,159 --> 01:29:39,159
trillion dollars, like, it's going to be really hard for

1552
01:29:39,239 --> 01:29:43,199
anything to catch up to that. And I don't think

1553
01:29:43,359 --> 01:29:49,479
people who have bought into the promise of bitcoin and

1554
01:29:49,680 --> 01:29:53,399
the evangelization that Sailor has done, it's going to be

1555
01:29:53,560 --> 01:29:57,000
very difficult to convince all those people to switch into

1556
01:29:58,399 --> 01:30:01,359
something like Monaro. And if you look at the like

1557
01:30:01,560 --> 01:30:05,319
how has bitcoin performed against Monaro in the last ten years,

1558
01:30:05,760 --> 01:30:08,159
And had you listen to all those people, you would

1559
01:30:08,199 --> 01:30:11,439
be a lot poorer than the people that stuck to Bitcoin. Now,

1560
01:30:11,479 --> 01:30:14,079
I'm not saying that it's all about making bank and

1561
01:30:14,119 --> 01:30:18,039
all that, but I mean a big part of this

1562
01:30:18,359 --> 01:30:21,560
is how are we going to store our value and

1563
01:30:21,640 --> 01:30:24,880
our wealth over time? And so bitcoin went out in

1564
01:30:24,960 --> 01:30:31,000
that I think geocentric, pleb. What do you think of

1565
01:30:31,079 --> 01:30:32,800
Dostievsky's Crime and Punishment.

1566
01:30:32,960 --> 01:30:33,319
Speaker 2: I love it.

1567
01:30:33,880 --> 01:30:37,279
Speaker 1: It was one of the first, well actually not the first.

1568
01:30:37,399 --> 01:30:38,800
I mean Lord of the Rings had a big effect

1569
01:30:38,840 --> 01:30:41,399
on me. But I read Crime and Punishment in a

1570
01:30:41,479 --> 01:30:44,319
grid class and I sat and read it all in

1571
01:30:44,399 --> 01:30:48,000
a few nights in my rocking chair, and it was

1572
01:30:48,079 --> 01:30:52,079
moved by it. It was I felt affected by a novel.

1573
01:30:53,079 --> 01:30:56,079
I have not yet read the Totality of Brothers krim Matsov,

1574
01:30:57,279 --> 01:30:59,880
but I definitely like those from the Underground, so I

1575
01:31:00,079 --> 01:31:04,239
definitely intend to get eventually into more Docievsky. But I've

1576
01:31:04,319 --> 01:31:07,520
noticed that when I did uh, we did a whole

1577
01:31:07,640 --> 01:31:14,439
episode with Tristan and Mark Hackard on Dostievsky. I mean,

1578
01:31:14,479 --> 01:31:16,479
nobody reads books, so I don't know what to like.

1579
01:31:16,840 --> 01:31:20,000
Nobody watches the live streams when I cover books, and

1580
01:31:20,359 --> 01:31:22,600
even when I cover movies, it's more people in the books.

1581
01:31:22,640 --> 01:31:25,079
But it's like, I don't know, man, I mean, I

1582
01:31:25,119 --> 01:31:27,039
guess we're just it's just going to be a small

1583
01:31:27,079 --> 01:31:29,680
elite club of people that actually like good books. Gio

1584
01:31:29,760 --> 01:31:34,720
Cedric club again since the same comment again, Yeah, I

1585
01:31:34,840 --> 01:31:38,319
think you know Dosky has been one of my favorites

1586
01:31:38,359 --> 01:31:41,319
for a long time. Flannery Old Connor is great too.

1587
01:31:41,640 --> 01:31:43,520
We've talked about her a lot. I've done podcasts on

1588
01:31:43,600 --> 01:31:45,960
all these people, but nobody watches those Orthodox your death

1589
01:31:45,960 --> 01:31:49,239
three dollars? How do I debate my neoplatonic pagan friend

1590
01:31:49,359 --> 01:31:51,880
if I'm Orthodox? Are there any videos of yours that

1591
01:31:51,960 --> 01:31:54,880
I can look at to disprove neoplatonism? I do have

1592
01:31:55,000 --> 01:31:57,359
old videos on neoplatonism, so you could you could look

1593
01:31:57,399 --> 01:32:01,399
at those. I critique those. I forget what they're titled,

1594
01:32:01,439 --> 01:32:05,880
but yeah, you can find those in the archives. Days

1595
01:32:05,960 --> 01:32:11,880
the King, what's up? Sorry to get a headache, so

1596
01:32:11,920 --> 01:32:14,199
we're probably have to call us to close pretty soon.

1597
01:32:14,319 --> 01:32:17,279
We've been going for over three hours. What's up? Days? Days?

1598
01:32:17,319 --> 01:32:20,680
And confused? It's Dan spiking?

1599
01:32:20,800 --> 01:32:21,399
Speaker 6: But how you doing?

1600
01:32:21,479 --> 01:32:21,640
Speaker 5: Man?

1601
01:32:23,520 --> 01:32:23,960
Speaker 14: Wonderful?

1602
01:32:25,039 --> 01:32:26,239
Speaker 10: Thank you for taking my call.

1603
01:32:27,199 --> 01:32:30,039
Speaker 15: I have to just two quick questions for you, please,

1604
01:32:30,079 --> 01:32:32,800
if you don't mind, One on Christology and the other

1605
01:32:32,880 --> 01:32:34,520
one about the pope thing.

1606
01:32:35,039 --> 01:32:39,600
Speaker 10: But so I'm reading through Saint John and Damascus.

1607
01:32:39,760 --> 01:32:44,439
Speaker 15: Exact exposition of the Orthodox faith, and on book three,

1608
01:32:44,640 --> 01:32:48,359
chapter sixteen, the title is against those who say that

1609
01:32:49,119 --> 01:32:52,960
if man has two natures and operations, then it's necessary

1610
01:32:53,039 --> 01:32:55,880
to say that Christ has three natures and the same

1611
01:32:56,000 --> 01:32:59,600
number of operations. And I read through the chapter and

1612
01:32:59,680 --> 01:33:02,319
I I'm having a hard time grasping what he means

1613
01:33:02,359 --> 01:33:06,199
by this. So who would say that Christ has three natures?

1614
01:33:06,920 --> 01:33:09,800
If man has two natures and operations? Could you could

1615
01:33:09,800 --> 01:33:10,680
you break that down for me?

1616
01:33:10,760 --> 01:33:11,039
Speaker 6: Please?

1617
01:33:12,479 --> 01:33:14,359
Speaker 1: Let me go to it, you said, Book three sixteen.

1618
01:33:14,479 --> 01:33:17,039
So this is right after he'd talked about two wills

1619
01:33:17,079 --> 01:33:22,039
and two energies in Christ, which famously Book three, chapter fifteen.

1620
01:33:22,079 --> 01:33:23,880
It was I direct a lot of people here because

1621
01:33:23,880 --> 01:33:26,680
it's a great exposition of the Essen synergies stincture, particularly

1622
01:33:26,720 --> 01:33:30,960
in Christology. Now I'm going for memory most of the

1623
01:33:31,079 --> 01:33:34,800
time when this is coming up. If you have the

1624
01:33:35,239 --> 01:33:39,800
printed out version, the x fontust version I think they

1625
01:33:39,880 --> 01:33:42,279
have in the footnotes. Typically I think I'm going to

1626
01:33:42,319 --> 01:33:45,920
remember here things dealing with mono, the lights, and mono energists.

1627
01:33:47,279 --> 01:33:50,119
So let's see. He says individual man is composed of

1628
01:33:50,199 --> 01:33:53,000
two natures, soul and body. Since these natures are unchangeable

1629
01:33:53,000 --> 01:33:56,279
in him, it's spoken of as two natures. I mean,

1630
01:33:56,560 --> 01:34:00,199
he's just talking about how at that time some people

1631
01:34:00,279 --> 01:34:04,399
talked about the soul as a quote nature or a

1632
01:34:04,560 --> 01:34:07,479
thing or a substance, different from the substance or nature

1633
01:34:07,479 --> 01:34:10,680
of the body. So it's not actually nature in the

1634
01:34:10,760 --> 01:34:12,680
way that we speak of the divine nature or the

1635
01:34:12,800 --> 01:34:15,600
human nature. He's just talking. It's just using the word

1636
01:34:15,720 --> 01:34:19,840
nature to distinguish two different types of existing things. So

1637
01:34:19,960 --> 01:34:22,439
you might say that angels have an angelic nature. Right,

1638
01:34:24,159 --> 01:34:27,199
So I think he's talking about going for memory monophicites

1639
01:34:27,239 --> 01:34:30,680
and mono thelites and mono innergists. But is there a

1640
01:34:30,760 --> 01:34:34,199
specific section in this that you're asking about. Where is this?

1641
01:34:36,319 --> 01:34:37,199
I've got it pulled up.

1642
01:34:39,159 --> 01:34:39,359
Speaker 12: Yeah.

1643
01:34:41,520 --> 01:34:43,800
Speaker 15: I didn't really understand the old chapter, to be honest,

1644
01:34:43,880 --> 01:34:44,880
and it's fine.

1645
01:34:44,960 --> 01:34:47,880
Speaker 10: I can just work through it some more and just

1646
01:34:47,960 --> 01:34:48,359
try to see.

1647
01:34:49,319 --> 01:34:52,039
Speaker 1: Let me see. So let's look at the closing paragraph.

1648
01:34:52,319 --> 01:34:54,439
If by saying that man has two natures, we are

1649
01:34:54,479 --> 01:34:57,840
obliged obliged to hold that Christ has three. Oh, okay,

1650
01:34:57,920 --> 01:35:02,359
So he's saying that if you he thought that body

1651
01:35:02,520 --> 01:35:05,159
was a nature, soul was a nature, and then Christ

1652
01:35:05,279 --> 01:35:07,920
as divine as another nature, that would be three natures

1653
01:35:07,960 --> 01:35:12,319
in Christ. But he's pointing out against monothelites that the

1654
01:35:12,439 --> 01:35:15,560
soul and the body are are human nature. They're not

1655
01:35:15,760 --> 01:35:18,000
two different natures. Does that make sense?

1656
01:35:19,399 --> 01:35:23,359
Speaker 15: I think I got it. I was more so on

1657
01:35:23,960 --> 01:35:25,960
the way of thinking that he was referring to, like

1658
01:35:26,840 --> 01:35:31,640
if Christ had if the nature is combined into one,

1659
01:35:31,960 --> 01:35:34,800
it would make one separate nature nature or something like that.

1660
01:35:34,920 --> 01:35:38,039
Speaker 1: Yeah, well that's also that's also a criticism of the monothelites.

1661
01:35:38,359 --> 01:35:43,840
And so but he's he is saying that he's not

1662
01:35:43,960 --> 01:35:46,479
saying a tertiam quid, although there is an argument about

1663
01:35:46,560 --> 01:35:49,279
ursham quid a third thing. He's saying that we must

1664
01:35:49,359 --> 01:35:54,760
not hold that Christ has three natures. Okay, awesome, And

1665
01:35:54,840 --> 01:35:58,560
by extension, Christ also does not have a third blended

1666
01:35:59,239 --> 01:36:02,800
tersham quid new thing or nature. He has two natures.

1667
01:36:03,920 --> 01:36:09,640
Human nature is body and soul together. That's the basic body, mind, soul, will.

1668
01:36:09,720 --> 01:36:12,640
That's human nature in its most basic form. And he's

1669
01:36:12,680 --> 01:36:15,800
saying that Christ has a divine nature, right and in

1670
01:36:15,880 --> 01:36:18,159
the incarnation, the divine the human come together. It's a

1671
01:36:18,199 --> 01:36:20,880
divine person with the divine nature assuming human nature, not

1672
01:36:20,920 --> 01:36:23,680
a human person. So he has two natures and he's

1673
01:36:23,760 --> 01:36:26,800
not three natures, and he's not a tertim quid. Blended.

1674
01:36:26,840 --> 01:36:29,720
Third thing awesome, And I do want to say this

1675
01:36:29,800 --> 01:36:30,279
real quick man.

1676
01:36:30,319 --> 01:36:32,720
Speaker 15: I know you have to go, but that series that

1677
01:36:32,800 --> 01:36:38,159
you're doing on the on the Orientals, that was great.

1678
01:36:38,680 --> 01:36:41,720
It was really really long and I listened to every

1679
01:36:41,800 --> 01:36:43,840
hour of it. I can't wait till you guys to

1680
01:36:43,960 --> 01:36:46,359
the next one. And this is my last thing I

1681
01:36:46,479 --> 01:36:48,399
want to say to you before you before we go.

1682
01:36:48,840 --> 01:36:51,880
Could you expound more on the argument that Ubi was

1683
01:36:51,960 --> 01:37:00,000
saying about the about Pope Popa's name villages, Oh, virgilias Virgilius.

1684
01:37:00,399 --> 01:37:03,079
Speaker 10: What was that argument again and that he couldn't answer?

1685
01:37:03,119 --> 01:37:04,279
Could you respond to us more?

1686
01:37:04,319 --> 01:37:07,159
Speaker 1: And thank you? Good question. Yeah, So basically the Vigilia's

1687
01:37:07,199 --> 01:37:11,560
case is a little bit convoluted, it's a little bit challenging,

1688
01:37:11,680 --> 01:37:16,439
but essentially, if you have the Skazhynsky book, his section

1689
01:37:16,520 --> 01:37:20,760
on Vigilius is really good. Here and let me see

1690
01:37:20,760 --> 01:37:22,319
if I can find what he says, because he sums

1691
01:37:22,319 --> 01:37:26,880
it up really well. So basically, Vigilius bends to the

1692
01:37:27,000 --> 01:37:31,520
Emperor and the church and the West rejects him and

1693
01:37:31,680 --> 01:37:35,199
ends up schissming and so it's not papal and so

1694
01:37:35,279 --> 01:37:41,279
I'll read what he says. Despite these compliments and expressions

1695
01:37:41,319 --> 01:37:44,520
of humility, Emperor Justinian made it clear that the power

1696
01:37:44,560 --> 01:37:47,279
of the Roman bishop must ultimately be subservient to the

1697
01:37:47,359 --> 01:37:51,680
imperial will. The Emperor threatened to banish Pope Agopatis for

1698
01:37:51,800 --> 01:37:55,439
his refusal to commune with Anthemus of Constantinople. During the

1699
01:37:55,520 --> 01:38:01,520
reconquest of Italy, General Belisarius deposed Pope the exiled Pope Silverius,

1700
01:38:02,079 --> 01:38:05,239
and Silverius's successor, Pope Vigilius, fared no better when he

1701
01:38:05,560 --> 01:38:09,760
refused to accept Justinian's alive branch to the non Calcedonians

1702
01:38:10,119 --> 01:38:14,199
the condemnation of the Three Chapters. Pope Vigilius journeyed to Constantinople,

1703
01:38:14,279 --> 01:38:16,600
fully aware that the majority of the Western bishops were

1704
01:38:17,000 --> 01:38:20,520
opposed to justinian scheme, but the Emperor required the Pope's

1705
01:38:20,520 --> 01:38:23,199
approval for legitimacy, and he was determined to get it.

1706
01:38:23,479 --> 01:38:26,560
Over the next several months, Pope Vigilius was bullied, browbeaten,

1707
01:38:26,600 --> 01:38:29,239
and placed under house arrest. At one point he was

1708
01:38:30,399 --> 01:38:33,079
drag kicking and streaming from the altar in an effort

1709
01:38:33,119 --> 01:38:36,560
to make him comply. When the Second Council Constantinople met

1710
01:38:36,560 --> 01:38:39,239
in five point fifty three, Virgilius refused to attend, despite

1711
01:38:39,359 --> 01:38:42,279
pleading the pleading of the other patriarchs, and so the

1712
01:38:42,359 --> 01:38:45,479
Emperor demanded that he be removed from the diptychs for

1713
01:38:45,600 --> 01:38:48,800
his unwillingness to bend to the judgment of the Church.

1714
01:38:49,479 --> 01:38:54,439
When the Pope finally accepted the council's decision, the bishops

1715
01:38:54,479 --> 01:38:59,039
of Eastria, Milan, and Achuala moved to excommunicate Virgilius, precipitating

1716
01:38:59,079 --> 01:39:01,960
a schism in the way that would last for many decades.

1717
01:39:02,319 --> 01:39:05,720
The message was clear, the Western bishops no longer believed

1718
01:39:05,800 --> 01:39:08,760
that the Roman bishop or the Roman position was correct,

1719
01:39:08,840 --> 01:39:11,399
simply because the Roman bishops said it and proclaimed it.

1720
01:39:11,880 --> 01:39:15,680
Virgilius's lack of vigilance had been and had indeed been

1721
01:39:15,760 --> 01:39:21,479
a costly situation. So the Vigilius case is basically just

1722
01:39:21,560 --> 01:39:27,920
a classic, excellent demonstration that nobody at this time really

1723
01:39:28,079 --> 01:39:30,920
actually had the Vatican One mindset, and in fact they

1724
01:39:30,960 --> 01:39:33,920
operated against the Vatican One mindset. So the point is

1725
01:39:34,000 --> 01:39:39,560
not that Justinian was spotless angel in this whole situation.

1726
01:39:39,640 --> 01:39:42,079
I mean, he's still a saint Orthodox Church, and we're

1727
01:39:42,119 --> 01:39:43,880
not saying he did everything right. But the point is

1728
01:39:43,960 --> 01:39:49,039
that this whole story, this whole instance refutes papal supremacy,

1729
01:39:50,720 --> 01:39:52,000
that it was known.

1730
01:39:51,920 --> 01:39:54,560
Speaker 10: Throughout the East and West.

1731
01:39:54,479 --> 01:39:58,920
Speaker 1: Absolutely, and now they operated against this the very idea

1732
01:39:59,640 --> 01:40:02,279
because Virgilia submits to the council.

1733
01:40:03,640 --> 01:40:05,760
Speaker 10: I see, I see, I appreciate.

1734
01:40:05,760 --> 01:40:08,239
Speaker 1: And why would he say if they had the mindset

1735
01:40:08,279 --> 01:40:10,840
of Vatican one, then why does he submit to the council.

1736
01:40:11,279 --> 01:40:13,239
He should have been telling the council what to do.

1737
01:40:13,359 --> 01:40:19,239
But thank you, Carrot, Uh Tim, in the chat, you

1738
01:40:19,359 --> 01:40:22,680
have the ability to call in Otherwise you're just wasting

1739
01:40:22,720 --> 01:40:25,399
your time spamming all your Protestant stuff. Nobody here cares

1740
01:40:25,439 --> 01:40:29,079
about all that. So you can call in here or

1741
01:40:29,159 --> 01:40:34,159
you can just move on. Go ahead, Carrot, I'm mute, hey.

1742
01:40:34,319 --> 01:40:37,479
Speaker 16: Thanks for having me, sir, curious about your thoughts on

1743
01:40:38,079 --> 01:40:41,279
the hard problem with consciousness and also the general what

1744
01:40:41,399 --> 01:40:44,399
the general Orthodox approach would be to that problem, if

1745
01:40:44,439 --> 01:40:44,920
it had.

1746
01:40:44,840 --> 01:40:48,760
Speaker 1: Any at all, The what problem of consciounce the hard.

1747
01:40:48,600 --> 01:40:49,600
Speaker 16: Problem with consciousness?

1748
01:40:49,640 --> 01:40:52,720
Speaker 1: If you're familiar with it, this sounds like something from

1749
01:40:52,840 --> 01:40:55,479
like Philosophy of Mind. I haven't had a Philosophy of

1750
01:40:55,560 --> 01:40:58,520
mind class in like fifteen years, So okay.

1751
01:40:58,279 --> 01:41:00,239
Speaker 10: Okay, if you're not familiar with it. That's okay.

1752
01:41:00,920 --> 01:41:02,720
Speaker 16: I would be curious if you had time to look

1753
01:41:02,760 --> 01:41:05,039
into it what your thoughts would be. But other than that,

1754
01:41:05,159 --> 01:41:05,680
that's all I have.

1755
01:41:06,439 --> 01:41:08,199
Speaker 1: I would say ask FDA. I don't know if he's

1756
01:41:08,199 --> 01:41:10,399
still here. Actually FDA's here, so he'll be a much

1757
01:41:10,479 --> 01:41:13,239
better person. Let's say, if he's available, a FDI, are

1758
01:41:13,279 --> 01:41:16,159
you there because he just taught a pistemology class on

1759
01:41:16,199 --> 01:41:19,039
his channel if you guys want to follow him over

1760
01:41:19,079 --> 01:41:21,239
at Patristic Faith, you just did a whole class on

1761
01:41:21,319 --> 01:41:22,000
a pistemology.

1762
01:41:22,600 --> 01:41:26,199
Speaker 10: Awesome, Yeah, philosophy might So what was the question of

1763
01:41:26,279 --> 01:41:27,000
the hard problem?

1764
01:41:27,439 --> 01:41:27,640
Speaker 6: Yeah?

1765
01:41:27,640 --> 01:41:29,960
Speaker 17: And what the general Orthodox approach would be to it

1766
01:41:30,000 --> 01:41:33,560
if it had any So the hard problem, so if I,

1767
01:41:33,680 --> 01:41:35,920
if I could just tell the audience the easy problem

1768
01:41:36,039 --> 01:41:39,600
is how could have something physical.

1769
01:41:40,199 --> 01:41:47,199
Speaker 14: Remember and uh uh act intelligently or whatever. The hard

1770
01:41:47,279 --> 01:41:54,840
problem is consciousness. So what that means is the reason

1771
01:41:54,880 --> 01:41:57,319
why it's such a hard problem is that it's categorically

1772
01:41:57,319 --> 01:41:59,239
it seems impossible.

1773
01:42:00,600 --> 01:42:04,600
Speaker 10: To bridge the gap. And the Orthodox would agree with that.

1774
01:42:05,000 --> 01:42:10,239
Speaker 14: That consciousness is defined as a first persons subjective. It's

1775
01:42:10,399 --> 01:42:15,520
the what it's like experience that you the person in

1776
01:42:15,640 --> 01:42:21,680
your mind has and various mental states, and brain.

1777
01:42:21,600 --> 01:42:24,199
Speaker 10: And body are defined in opposite.

1778
01:42:23,760 --> 01:42:28,720
Speaker 14: Categories a third person, objective, quantitative, extended through space, et cetera.

1779
01:42:30,600 --> 01:42:34,399
So it's not a hard problem for us Orthodox, it's

1780
01:42:34,399 --> 01:42:37,760
a heart problem for the materialists with the cancer same

1781
01:42:37,840 --> 01:42:41,079
to answer. So you would say, of course, yeah, mine's

1782
01:42:41,159 --> 01:42:45,960
distinct from and conscious one of the properties of mind

1783
01:42:46,000 --> 01:42:51,199
being consciousness, the qualitative first person subjective awareness.

1784
01:42:52,319 --> 01:42:55,840
Speaker 10: Is of course it's different and distinct from the body.

1785
01:42:56,399 --> 01:42:57,840
So that would be the Orthodox.

1786
01:42:58,159 --> 01:43:02,119
Speaker 14: So it really is a hard problem, and I would

1787
01:43:02,159 --> 01:43:05,960
say impossible problem for physicalist.

1788
01:43:05,479 --> 01:43:07,319
Speaker 10: Or materialists to answer, but not for us.

1789
01:43:07,479 --> 01:43:09,279
Speaker 4: It's like it's just.

1790
01:43:10,880 --> 01:43:12,840
Speaker 10: It shows the Orthodox position is correct.

1791
01:43:13,119 --> 01:43:16,640
Speaker 1: Father digging, did you are you doing a whole course

1792
01:43:17,000 --> 01:43:19,039
on epistemology on your class or just a couple of

1793
01:43:19,119 --> 01:43:20,840
lectures on your change.

1794
01:43:21,640 --> 01:43:23,960
Speaker 10: I have a whole course I could actually build if

1795
01:43:24,000 --> 01:43:26,720
you guys want me to. So I build these.

1796
01:43:26,680 --> 01:43:31,399
Speaker 14: Courses, right, there's sixteen week college courses with lectures and

1797
01:43:31,479 --> 01:43:32,960
assignments if you want me to.

1798
01:43:33,359 --> 01:43:35,239
Speaker 10: I could build a philosophy of mind one.

1799
01:43:35,840 --> 01:43:36,039
Speaker 6: Yeah.

1800
01:43:37,000 --> 01:43:37,560
Speaker 10: I would love that.

1801
01:43:38,119 --> 01:43:40,319
Speaker 14: Yeah, because I did my PhD in philosophy of mind

1802
01:43:40,359 --> 01:43:43,520
and philosophy science. It's just I haven't built one out yet.

1803
01:43:44,159 --> 01:43:46,439
I just didn't know if that many people were interested

1804
01:43:46,479 --> 01:43:50,760
in that. And philosophy minds difficult. That's another reason why

1805
01:43:50,760 --> 01:43:54,159
I dificult. It requires kind of.

1806
01:43:54,199 --> 01:44:01,239
Speaker 10: A at least uh cursory kind of introduction into a

1807
01:44:01,319 --> 01:44:02,159
lot of topics.

1808
01:44:03,119 --> 01:44:06,920
Speaker 14: So like, let's say it's like prerequisites, you'd have to

1809
01:44:06,960 --> 01:44:13,239
have logic, philosophy of language, analytic philosophy, philosophy of science,

1810
01:44:14,640 --> 01:44:20,199
epistemology just to name a few before you could actually

1811
01:44:21,119 --> 01:44:25,199
probably qualifies to go into philosophy of mind.

1812
01:44:25,000 --> 01:44:26,479
Speaker 10: Because it's pulling from all those areas.

1813
01:44:26,520 --> 01:44:30,439
Speaker 14: So when you're reading the literature, if you're not introduced

1814
01:44:30,560 --> 01:44:32,920
to I've taken some of those courses.

1815
01:44:32,560 --> 01:44:34,840
Speaker 10: You're not going to know what you're reading. It's going

1816
01:44:34,880 --> 01:44:35,479
to be extreme.

1817
01:44:35,520 --> 01:44:38,319
Speaker 14: And that's what makes philosophy of mind extremely difficult, is

1818
01:44:38,800 --> 01:44:41,359
there's probably no other topic that pulls from so many

1819
01:44:41,399 --> 01:44:42,119
different areas.

1820
01:44:43,640 --> 01:44:45,800
Speaker 1: All right, cool, thank you for that. Yeah, hopefully that

1821
01:44:45,920 --> 01:44:51,920
was helpful there. Kerrett. Appreciate your question comment. I know

1822
01:44:52,000 --> 01:44:55,520
we got several more people. I'm getting kind of tired

1823
01:44:55,560 --> 01:45:00,520
of getting kind of a headache. Know, if I got

1824
01:45:00,600 --> 01:45:03,079
much more energy, Hopefully you guys had fun tonight. I

1825
01:45:03,159 --> 01:45:04,960
want to remind you too that thank you shout out

1826
01:45:04,960 --> 01:45:07,640
to FTA for being here. I'm gonna i'll give him

1827
01:45:07,640 --> 01:45:10,640
some of these super chats and uh you guys. Also,

1828
01:45:10,760 --> 01:45:13,720
if you are looking for good, wacky, wild Christmas gifts,

1829
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I think my Esseldrek Hollywood books are kind of out there.

1830
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If you've got family members that you'd like to like movies,

1831
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they would like my books. You can also get Jamie's

1832
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books in the shop at Jasonilsons dot com. Otherwise, thank

1833
01:45:26,039 --> 01:45:29,479
you guys so much. It's been a lot of fun tonight. Well,

1834
01:45:29,520 --> 01:45:31,119
I'm sure we're gonna be doing a lot more streams

1835
01:45:31,119 --> 01:45:34,199
in the next few days, so look up look for

1836
01:45:34,319 --> 01:45:37,600
me and Jamie next to do a movie stream We're

1837
01:45:37,640 --> 01:45:43,359
gonna do wife bots. We might do that tomorrow, and

1838
01:45:43,920 --> 01:45:47,479
then next we are going to do vampire movies. We've

1839
01:45:47,600 --> 01:45:49,479
never done vampire movies, I'm not sure.

1840
01:45:50,039 --> 01:45:52,399
Speaker 14: Remind me what was the one that we watched about

1841
01:45:52,479 --> 01:45:57,520
the Dream Clinic for Comina, And that would be a

1842
01:45:57,560 --> 01:45:58,920
good one for you to review too.

1843
01:45:59,279 --> 01:46:00,399
Speaker 1: That's the reason why bring up.

1844
01:46:00,439 --> 01:46:01,920
Speaker 10: But what was the name of the one we watched

1845
01:46:01,960 --> 01:46:05,680
in Florida? Uh?

1846
01:46:05,960 --> 01:46:06,439
Speaker 1: Come true?

1847
01:46:08,000 --> 01:46:10,960
Speaker 10: Does it come true where she goes to the like, yeah, that's.

1848
01:46:10,840 --> 01:46:13,720
Speaker 1: Called that's called come true. Now, yeah, we I did

1849
01:46:13,760 --> 01:46:17,319
that with the Sip of Cinema guys. Okay, but don't

1850
01:46:17,359 --> 01:46:19,199
say that that's a vampire movie because you just builed it.

1851
01:46:20,439 --> 01:46:22,439
Speaker 5: That's what you did it.

1852
01:46:22,720 --> 01:46:25,479
Speaker 10: I say it was a good Actually I wanted to

1853
01:46:25,479 --> 01:46:27,479
show my wife that. That's why I was asking.

1854
01:46:28,880 --> 01:46:32,359
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's it's it's actually not an unexpected vampire. Yeah,

1855
01:46:32,439 --> 01:46:34,479
it's called come true. C I met r you. It's

1856
01:46:34,680 --> 01:46:36,560
just an independent horror movie that we did that with

1857
01:46:36,600 --> 01:46:39,239
the Sip of Cinema guys last year. But uh, Jamie

1858
01:46:39,239 --> 01:46:42,880
and are going to do Francis Ford Coppola's Dracula, which

1859
01:46:42,880 --> 01:46:45,439
I believe it or not. When we watched that, uh

1860
01:46:45,720 --> 01:46:50,640
it was way more esoteric and occultic than I even remembered.

1861
01:46:50,720 --> 01:46:52,760
So there was a lot more going on than I expected.

1862
01:46:53,640 --> 01:47:00,000
We're gonna do Blade Underworld, a couple more vampire movie.

1863
01:47:00,000 --> 01:47:02,800
I forgot what we've gone. We may do two podcasts

1864
01:47:02,840 --> 01:47:05,199
because actually there's so many vampire movies, but actually not

1865
01:47:05,319 --> 01:47:07,800
many vampire movies are good. There's only like a handful

1866
01:47:07,920 --> 01:47:10,439
that are actually okay, most of them are pretty much

1867
01:47:10,479 --> 01:47:14,680
garbage or are kind of goofy. I have done Lost

1868
01:47:14,720 --> 01:47:17,520
Boys because it's an eighties classic, so we've done that

1869
01:47:17,720 --> 01:47:19,960
like two or three times. No, I will not be

1870
01:47:20,039 --> 01:47:22,199
doing Twilight. In fact, we're gonna be making fun of Twilight.

1871
01:47:22,239 --> 01:47:26,800
It's terrible. We're gonna do the ones that are at

1872
01:47:26,880 --> 01:47:29,279
least halfway decent. There's actually some pretty well.

1873
01:47:29,399 --> 01:47:31,359
Speaker 10: Is there another one called Let this one in or

1874
01:47:31,399 --> 01:47:32,000
don't Let this one?

1875
01:47:32,119 --> 01:47:32,319
Speaker 6: Yeah?

1876
01:47:32,319 --> 01:47:33,720
Speaker 1: I don't really. I didn't really like that one.

1877
01:47:34,359 --> 01:47:37,119
Speaker 10: I don't remember it. I just remember that was a vampirement.

1878
01:47:37,239 --> 01:47:40,039
Speaker 1: It is a vampire movie. There's another one with Sorcier

1879
01:47:40,119 --> 01:47:43,279
Ronin called Byzantium, which has nothing to do with Byzantium.

1880
01:47:44,600 --> 01:47:46,760
It's a vampire move. It's like like those really slow

1881
01:47:47,880 --> 01:47:50,680
independent vampire movies that are kind of boring to me. Also,

1882
01:47:51,680 --> 01:47:54,479
we're not gonna do Anne Rice because it's super gay

1883
01:47:55,319 --> 01:47:59,800
and I never realized that until I was an adult

1884
01:48:00,199 --> 01:48:02,239
and you watch Interview the Vampires, like this is all

1885
01:48:02,319 --> 01:48:05,800
straight up skittles do gross, right, So I'm not doing

1886
01:48:06,199 --> 01:48:11,399
Ann Rice's vampire crap. Actually, that Van Helsing has Cabala

1887
01:48:11,479 --> 01:48:14,479
in it. That was that Surprises we watched van Helsing.

1888
01:48:14,640 --> 01:48:18,840
We watched Underworld We're doing Blade now, and then we

1889
01:48:18,960 --> 01:48:22,760
watched Francis Ford Coppola's Dracula. It's the best, I think

1890
01:48:22,920 --> 01:48:26,079
so far. I can't think of a better vampire movie

1891
01:48:26,119 --> 01:48:27,439
than the Francis Ford Coppola one.

1892
01:48:27,479 --> 01:48:29,600
Speaker 14: It's it's probably well most people don't know, you should

1893
01:48:29,680 --> 01:48:33,199
do this one is Arnold Schwarzneiger's Commando was actually a

1894
01:48:33,319 --> 01:48:34,039
vampire movie.

1895
01:48:36,199 --> 01:48:38,760
Speaker 1: I actually like Commando. It's it's so preposterous.

1896
01:48:38,800 --> 01:48:41,319
Speaker 10: I'm gonna watch it, like we should you.

1897
01:48:41,439 --> 01:48:44,720
Speaker 1: You're gonna have fun because the like the body count

1898
01:48:44,960 --> 01:48:47,760
is like Arnold's killing somebody like every five seconds. There's

1899
01:48:47,840 --> 01:48:50,680
like five hundred body count in that movie. It's just

1900
01:48:50,760 --> 01:48:54,439
it's just so off, like off the charts eighties action movie.

1901
01:48:54,479 --> 01:48:55,159
It's a lot of fun.

1902
01:48:55,359 --> 01:48:57,680
Speaker 14: And doesn't he got like a Matt frat guy Like

1903
01:48:58,079 --> 01:49:00,760
this isn't the final boss like Austria, dude.

1904
01:49:01,560 --> 01:49:03,359
Speaker 1: I don't even remember who the last guy is. I think,

1905
01:49:03,439 --> 01:49:06,279
but his daughter is like Shnnon Doherty or somebody like

1906
01:49:06,439 --> 01:49:11,319
or No, it's Alyssa Milano is Arnold's don Yeah, somebody

1907
01:49:11,359 --> 01:49:13,479
said I should play Witcher. Uh yeah. People have been

1908
01:49:13,520 --> 01:49:15,960
recommending that The thing is when I when I do,

1909
01:49:16,039 --> 01:49:18,920
the game streams like people like the first couple ones,

1910
01:49:18,960 --> 01:49:21,159
but then they don't like it after that, so nobody

1911
01:49:21,279 --> 01:49:26,760
tuned into the part three of Silent Hill. But anyway,

1912
01:49:28,279 --> 01:49:32,760
dust Till don uh I mean Dustill Done is nineties

1913
01:49:32,800 --> 01:49:34,399
and all that, but it doesn't really have much as

1914
01:49:34,439 --> 01:49:34,479
a