Speaker 1: What is up, Fellowsikos, I am Dana Valley coming at
you with the one, the only, this certified fan tabulous
mister Grant Hughes. The offseason look ahead train rolls onward.
We're onto the Charlotte Hornets. As anyone can see if
they're watching on YouTube, Grant, how are you feeling about
this team as we enter their offseason?
Speaker 2: I feel like I should take a thirty minute pause
to think about my answer to convey the Charlotte Hornets
level of patience, because that's the kind of team the
Charlotte Hornets are.
Speaker 1: They're paid now under the new regime. For sure is
they've at each of the past trade deadlines. They prioritize
just getting some extra picks in there, trading away talent
taking on this year was the use of Nurkic's money
last year was Grant Williams is. But they're in sort
of a weird spot now to where I'm guessing you
think that they're going to remain patient, which is probably
the right call. But we should go through their off
season vite here to see what they're working with, what
decisions they have to make. They project to be about
twelve million dollars under the tax This includes the tray
Man RFA hold, which checks in at fourteen point seven million.
It also includes guaranteeing Joshua Kogi at seven point eight million,
and it of course includes the number four overall pick.
Let's start there, just because those impact their immediate finances.
Trey Man disappeared this year like due to injury. Basically
are like, I don't even know what to figure out
as fourteen point seven million? Does he even get that?
And if he does, is it more than one guarantee
year at this point after all the injuries he's dealing.
Speaker 2: With, And isn't his qualifying offer like just under seven million?
So like, is he getting that like that? I mean
I don't maybe you're definitely he's no, So answering your question, no,
he will not get anything approaching that's basically like mid
level money.
Speaker 3: He's not touching that. There's no way.
Speaker 1: So they're gonna be working then, in all likelihood with
the non taxpayer mid level What do you view as
just sort of before getting into a little bit of
their own decisions, what trades they would consider making, what
do you view as their biggest need right now? I?
Speaker 2: I mean I think their biggest need is probably figuring
out if LaMelo Ball is the guy we're building around,
or is it a player we don't even have, or
which or is it like whatever Brandon Miller's timeline is.
Speaker 3: You know, that's not that's not the question you're asking.
Speaker 2: But like they're far enough you know, down the standings
and early enough in this rebuild. Uh that Like I
don't think you go like, well, they need a need
a three and D wing or they need a A.
I mean they kind of have a room rolling center
and Mark Williams, who we can talk about, but like,
I don't view them as a team that kind of
gets to say we need this type of player. It's
kind of like in a draft, it's like it's a
best player available situation. Like that's that's kind of where
it's where.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's like, you don't not draft Dylan Harper because
you have anybody on if he's still valuable for some
reason at number four. You don't not draft VJ. Edgecombe
because of anybody on this.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Yeah, No, I think I think that the Hornets feel
to me like a team that's kind of I mean,
Ball complicates it. I'm sure we'll talk about him in
like some hypothetical trade stuff, but like they feel like
a team that is kind of like hunkered down in
like a bunker, just waiting to see like what the
second Apron fallout is around the league. And then that's clear,
they're like, Okay, so here's what we should do and
then and now we'll start, you know, because they they
set the timeline back two years in a row, right,
like with just the way they've operated trying to get
you know, first round assets here and there, with taking
on like iffy money and just being careful, which is like,
if you're a Hornets fan, maybe this isn't super fun,
but man, this is just a more promising tact than
what they've been you know, operating, or what they've been
trying to do before. So I don't know what the
needs are. I don't I don't think that's even like
that's not the type of question this team should be
asking itself, right, No.
Speaker 1: I think I guess if ideally, if you're looking at fit,
A lot of it will depend on you could say
they still kind of need a five of the future,
depending on what's gonna happen with Mark Williams. But the
idea of like what Trey Man is, Like, who's the
secondary offensive option on this team moving forward? Is Brandon
Miller gonna be that good to be that player? Because
then you don't you could, you know, kind of move
your focus off that. Miles Bridges is like, that's not
gonna be the guy. He's certainly not gonna be the
guy long term, so they could still use that. They
do also need though, like all right, like Brandon Miller,
we don't necessarily we still don't know what he's gonna become.
I think you know his progress was I'll call it
incremental based off what I saw last season before his
own injury. You do kind of you mentioned a three
and D wing like they do really need like good
net positive excuse me, impact wing defenders here, and like
Josha Kogi is fine, but he's not gonna give you
a lot on offense. And then I don't think you
want Brandon Miller as your most important wing defender moving forward.
And I was against the trade at the time. I
still don't understand why they did it. Josh Green ain't
that guy either, Grant.
Speaker 3: Have you heard he can pass on the move? Though,
Like maybe what they need is an.
Speaker 2: Uptempo offense that allows Josh Green to move more.
Speaker 1: You need to train LaMelo to make sure that Josh
Green gets more of those on ball reps, is what
you're saying.
Speaker 3: No, he doesn't even need all he just needs to
be moving while he's passing. That's what he's good at.
That's that's where.
Speaker 2: Josh Green really shines. It's been a long time since
I did the Josh Green bit feels good. Yeah, no,
I I mean what they need is a cornerstone. If
it's not Lamello, right, maybe that's the simplest way to
boil it down.
Speaker 3: And maybe that guy comes at number four, and maybe
maybe you're waiting another year. I don't know.
Speaker 1: There is pressure on them to nail this pick, and
it feels a little different than last year because I
guess Trey Johnson could sneak in here. But it feels
like they're just gonna take who's left over from Dylan
Harper vj Edgecomb, so that the decision.
Speaker 3: Bay might it might be it might be Bailey.
Speaker 1: Excuse Yea's why I meant I met Bailey or Edgecomb
because it just feels like those are gonna be like
the Sixers decide whoever's drafting at number three decides between
those two and then Charlotte Takesho's ever left over. But
the t John's Law experience was not great, and it's
just you can call him a rookie, but I went
through for this specific purpose of just like, okay, like,
who are the players in the rookie season who logged
over a thousand minutes had a true shooting percentage as
bad with a box plus minus that was he was
at minus five point six, So I said it at
minus five or worse. The list is not great. I
will include the three best players to come out of
that list so far, Jaleen Suggs, Jordan Poole, and Austin Rivers.
Speaker 2: And so that's like, you know, are very different players
than On too.
Speaker 1: So he's high energy, so like it could be kind
of fun to watch him play, but there is when
you turn looking at some of the players that went
after him, especially like Zach Heaty could have worked here.
Donovan Klingon would have made a lot of sense, especially
when you tried to turn around and trademark Williams. Anyway,
not the traditional above the rim guys that maybe you
want next to LaMelo there's pressure on them to nail
that pick, but there's also I wonder if some of
the pressures off because there if you just take who's
ever left over out of Edgecomb or Bailey, I would
assume that you're almost off the hook regardless of what happens.
Speaker 2: I kind of like their draft position for that reason.
I mean, I'm Bailey antire. Yeah, yeah, right, I just
I would like someone to make my decision for me,
is what I'm saying.
Speaker 3: And that is.
Speaker 2: Really where they're at. Although like if it's Edgecomb, I
think it's easy. But if it is Bailey, that I've
just you know, I don't know how much you've read
up yet. I haven't done a lot of draft prep,
but like that's a polarizing guy, you know, he's that
I would feel very I would feel much less comfortable
if it's Bailey on the board than if it were Edgecomb.
Speaker 3: I think Edge Combs just like, yeah, you just take
that guy.
Speaker 2: And again, having done not enough draft prep yet, but
I think they're in a decent position draft wise. But like,
oh sorry, I want to back up. They got to
trade Mark Williams, right, Like, I mean.
Speaker 1: Like extension eligible Mark Williams who has missed more games
than he's played in for his career.
Speaker 2: For anyone, I just I just mean, like they did
trade it's just for the vibes, Like you did trade
him like and then and then you can't just have
him around.
Speaker 1: I mean, he did play well to close the year
after that. Sure, my whole thing is just anything you've
seen from him, and the samplesize has been limited. Do
you believe that he can be the anchor, like the
backlying anchor of a really good defense.
Speaker 2: Uh No, I think I think he Well I was
gonna I was gonna frame it like, is he ever?
Speaker 3: Do you think it's likely that he'll.
Speaker 2: Be better than the fifteenth best starting center in the
league or like twentieth best starting center, Like that's the
range he's in now, I think if you're being generous,
and certainly not if you're pricing in availability. So it's
like we in some ways Charlotte has kind of seen
what it needs to see, I think, and they did.
They they traded him, they decided that he's not like
and then we don't want him around.
Speaker 1: Do you know what was great about that trades that
Kyri reinforced the vision of the front office to where
it's like, well, we're shorting the Lakers' future long term
or is it twenty they were gonna twenty thirty one
pick and a twenty thirty swap and then Dalton connect
shirt just that you could add some like they could
use some dead eye shooters around Lamelow. For sure. I
think that that still needs to be the plan. But
now that you've telegraphed that you don't want him, I
don't like you're not getting Even if the Lakers were
gonna trade for him, they're not giving up that package
because they already decided that they were like drunk or something, You're.
Speaker 2: You're never doing better than that package. Like that was
a good that was a good return, Like that was
a massive, that real win.
Speaker 1: I had to grade that trade when we all thought
it was gonna happen, and I destroyed the Lakers for it,
and I gave the Hornet. It's Mark Williams a good player.
I just don't headed towards his next And even if
even if you're the Hornets, what is the money you're
willing to give him to say, well, maybe he'll be
more valuable on an extension that is it just four
and sixty Is that too much?
Speaker 3: I don't know that.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I don't think that ups his value. That that's
the thing, Like, I just don't think there's a scenario
where he becomes more one that offer was bonkers, and
two like his value is not increasing as he gets
more expensive. That's just like I don't he's not that
caliber of player. I don't think so, yeah that I
don't know. So I started this by saying, like, you
gotta trade him, but it's like, well, his value is
pretty low, oh right now relative was six months ago.
Speaker 1: For them, Because we know what kind of timeline they're on.
It's not the worst outcome in the world to see that, Well,
can he stay healthy and maybe he ups his value
ahead of restricted free agency before the trade deadline. There's
Here's here's the thing. And I don't want to go
back to the LaMelo Ball. Well, but when you're looking
at this Hornets team, if you decide that LaMelo Ball
is worth keeping around, which I think is a totally
reasonable decision, And if I were the Hornets, I would
not move him, especially coming off the way he finished
the season injured and inefficient. But like, there's no make
or break thing happening here this year. There's a lot
of other teams are approaching these inflection points, and the
only way the Charlotte Hornets are there is if you think, one,
LaMelo Ball is not the guy, and two that he
can't be scaled to a situation where you found your
guy and you're kind of pulling his role back, and
then three that you think you could get a ton
of value for him in a trade right now, which
anyone who's listening to this podcast knows. I would give
up a lot for LaMelo Ball because I think he
is a transcendent offensive player and if he could stay healthy,
there's a lot of like Steller's remorse, potential there for Charlotte.
But I don't I could say, like with some semblance
of certainty, he's not viewed that way like around the
league at all.
Speaker 2: No, I was gonna add, you kind of touched on it,
but like four, like you, as the Hornets are just
you've got more information than anybody else, and you're just
gonna conclude that, like what everybody thought about Steph Curry
and his ankles is actually true about LaMelo and it's
you're never getting a full season.
Speaker 3: I don't know how any of us outside could know that.
Speaker 2: But maybe Charlotte knows that, and and maybe what happens
is you trade LaMelo and that trade gets avoided by
another team. That's like, nah, he's not good enough, he's
not healthy enough, and thin it's Mark Williams all over again,
just on a larger scale. I agree with you mostly
about like there's nothing seismic that's gonna happen, and I
think Ball still has quite a bit of value. But
I would say that trading Ball would be a pretty
significant like make or break is the phrase you use,
but like that's a turning point at least, right, Like
that's a pretty that's a pretty meaningful sort of reassessment
of where the Hornets are if you move off of him,
because like you've already you've already paid him his max
or the rookie max, You've oriented the team around him
to some extent, and to move him would be just
to say, like, here comes four to five more years
of us building because we don't have the guy. Like
that's a big deal, even though, like you know, with him,
they got an All Star season out of him and
they were half decent whatever that was twenty one twenty
two maybe when they went I forget they were in
the play in mix, but like it hasn't been great,
And part of that's because he's been hurt, but part
of that's because like the team just isn't good enough
with him leading it in the talent they have around it.
So like I would think pretty hard about trading him,
knowing that you're really setting the clock back even farther.
Speaker 1: That's interesting because I just what is the team that's
coming in with the Like if I was Orlando, Yes,
sure they're not going to do that. We just know
like too much about Orlando. Houston should do it. I
don't think they would do it. And so it's just
like you could identify teams that maybe should give up
the moon for Lamela, Like what it you don't be
really interested again? Should I note? Should I make the
note where if you entered the we're just asking questions, p.
Speaker 3: Yes, I have some. I'm also prepared to ask some
questions on this front.
Speaker 1: Would you do? Like what if Portland was just my team?
It's like, let's can we build something around Scoot and
number eleven and like what else needs to be in there?
Speaker 3: Yep, they have some of their young players.
Speaker 2: They have a trillion of them, Like I I think
Portland is a really interesting landing spot for him, and
I'm super annoyed. So my if Portland parentheses for Scoot
and young pieces, like so you're we're hive minded. I mean,
like you could go, what about like I mean Brooklyn, uh,
New Orleans, you take back the de Jonte Murray contract
and you get some picks, maybe you can this doesn't
the don't the Pelicans still have a Lakers pick out
there somewhere, or they've got some from the Bucks that
you know if you you.
Speaker 1: Want those swaps from the they control the Bucks picks
in twenty they're the team that hasn't been twenty six
and twenty seven vs. One.
Speaker 2: Get a hold of some of that, and and you're
helping the Pelicans out by taking Murray's money too, So
you could really ask for the Moon draft asset wise,
I mean, like Utah, that's just a weird fit.
Speaker 1: But like, I don't know how Utah would be so
much fun under it.
Speaker 2: Any somebody they don't have anything close to like a
foundational player Detroit, Like how.
Speaker 1: Fun next decade? That why insane?
Speaker 3: So there's a lot of teams that.
Speaker 2: I think that's all to say the market for LaMelo,
even though I kind of just bashed him as like
it's there, I think it's there, and it's all teams
that are mostly young and just should be very He's
not a second draft guy.
Speaker 3: We're way too deep for that. But it's like, what
if you put him on a team with a bunch.
Speaker 2: Of real players, like and he stays healthy, Like, the
conversation could be very different about him a year from
now if that happens.
Speaker 1: Would you do if you're Charlotte As the baseline of
number four LaMelo and Dallas is twenty twenty seven first
and by the way, the Hornets can trade up to
five first round picks this year, four of their own
plus that Dallas pick. Are you giving that up for
a Cooper flag? Oh?
Speaker 3: You got to? I think you gotta.
Speaker 1: Does God even get Dallas thinking?
Speaker 2: I don't think so. I Well, does he get him thinking?
Getting that twenty seven.
Speaker 1: Numberack, you're giving up Lamello and a first round pick
top two protected first round pick on a team that
quite frankly isn't guaranteed to be good in twenty twenty,
but it has more value to Dallas than any other
team LaMelo in a first round pick to move up
three spots.
Speaker 3: Okay, here's why this isn't happening.
Speaker 2: I've heard it said that Dallas really cares about like
conditioning and defense and like professionalism and work ethic And
so you're gonna dump Luca and replace him with LaMelo
Ball like that that's the move. How does Nico Harrison
explain that one?
Speaker 1: He still can't explain Luca Nachi trades.
Speaker 3: I'm not running out of anything for don't explain it with.
Speaker 2: A straight face, and it won't make sense, I guess
is the stock answer.
Speaker 1: Now, this is an interesting place to end to keep it, like,
we don't want to be the just the LaMelo Ball
Trade podcast like every other one is. You mentioned what
happens if you put LaMelo Ball on a team with
serious players, and I think right now you just go
look at the people can criticize LaMelo Ball. There's there's
real criticisms to be had, the supporting cast. Even if
you think it's been good enough, it has not been
available enough. And look, he's part of that. When you
look at the catch all metrics, like his teammates just
grayed out in like the one to tenth percent tile
of all the things that matter, Like in some is
there gonna be any like when when do you finally
feel compelled to say, well, we need to be the
team that puts real players around him to see what
we look like versus because that informs your timeline and
informs what you're gonna do with LaMelo. Because we're getting
to a point where it's all right, he has three
is he have four years left on his rookie scale
including next season? He not scale the.
Speaker 2: Rookie he's gotten, so he's on the books for thirty
seven point nine next season, forty forty three, forty six,
So he's got four full years left.
Speaker 1: So I would say this is your last fuck around
season then, because it's you want to get you need
data points on what does he look like independent of
a rebuild. And I'm not saying he's culpable in some
of it, but you look at who was in charge beforehand,
like the Hornets weren't well run. So like as as Charlotte,
do you think there's any temptation to say, like, well,
do we need to do something to put some real
players in here? That I don't want to say This
isn't a two timeline approach, but it's I don't even
know what would be a good analog for them, but
like we need to get some veterans in here in
addition to developing number four.
Speaker 2: Brandon Miller, I think, I think the issues of the
timeline and a LaMelo trade are just are inseparable because
you're right, like, if you're gonna keep we want picks,
we want assets, we want flexibility, we want young players.
If you're gonna keep going that route, then you're never
gonna see like what LaMelo ball could do with you know,
serious veteran players, because you you just will not have
that team. And so then you like you must trade
him if that's the plan, right, because like you won't
one like the longer this goes on, where he's just
surrounded by like you know, a G League roster or whatever,
a bunch of rookies and stuff, he's his value's not
going up because he's just not gonna look as good
if he's surrounded by inferior talent and so and if
if you if he is your guy, then you need
to fast track the time, not like go crazy, but
like you do need to put real players around him, so.
Speaker 1: You can't really have it.
Speaker 3: You can't have it both ways. I don't think.
Speaker 2: I think and like it does seem like everything Charlotte's
doing is suggesting like you just should trade ball because
they're getting younger and cheaper and more flexible and getting
more draft assets.
Speaker 3: So like, how are you like you got to pick one?
I guess is where I would land on it.
Speaker 1: I would like to see them because I don't think
they're gonna trade Lamelow. I think maybe that's what Shom's
was hinting out when he said this is gonna be
the wildless offseason he could remember. I would love to
see them. I think there's like defensive issues, but I
think like the way that they like. I think I
would just like to see them put more shooting around
the Melow. That's what I wanted, just deadI shooting. It's
just like if you had the opportunity to be like
Denver's looking to cut costs, extend the rotation, I don't
know if it improves it and said we'll give you
Michael Porter Junior for Grant Williams and Josh Green. I'm
probably striking that deal. If I'm Charlotte it's consolidation. Do
you need is Michael Porter Junior giving you a ton
of What you need is two years left. But like,
that type of shooting around LaMelo would be super dangerous,
and so I'd like to see them kind of stack
the deck with more shooting, because let's not just see
like what does LaMelo look like with real NBA players,
Let's optimize the offense around him to see the heights
to which he can carry it. Because for the most
part this year when he was on the floor, they
were above average in offensive efficiency when you look at
who was available and who was playing alongside him, Like,
that's not necessarily easy to do. I don't know. I'm
sure there's a bunch of players who could have done it,
But it's not like you could have just thrown Tighus
Jones in here and Charlotte would have done the same
thing during LaMelo balls minutes.
Speaker 2: If they do something like that, can't you imagine us
and Charlotte wins thirty nine games in mellow has an
All Star season? Are we just giving them a bunch
of shit because they're the bulls now? You know, like,
are like you know what I mean?
Speaker 1: Like if they short circuited their future. So if they
traded like picks and stuff to be like, well, let's
pair dematoes and a vooch and Zack LVI sure.
Speaker 2: Well, I just if they literally became the bulls. I
just think, like, because we're deep in the playoffs, as
we're recording this, I am constantly thinking about how there's
just levels to this and and what we're talking about,
like let's surround LaMelo with some talent to see what
there is, like that's so far below being a competitive,
like real playoff team that it's almost just like, well, now,
I'm just like you might as well trade them and
just start from scratch, because like, I don't I could
see them becoming a play in team or maybe like
especially in the East, maybe they're the six or seven seed.
But like I guess, as long as you're not sending
out first to accomplish what you're talking about, then sure,
but the worst thing you can do is and the
most on brand and old school Charlotte thing you could
do is short circuit a little bit of this patient
stuff and try to win forty two games, you know,
because you have LaMelo and you need to see what's there.
Speaker 1: I'm just and I agree that if you're doing if
you're short circuiting things to do that, then the answer
should be, well, then just move them, like if that's
the alternative. But I just don't. I guess I don't
think it's that binary yet. I think you have another
year to play around with this. And just like you know,
so you have the non tax payer mid level, and
it's let's just bring in like some higher culture guys
where it's imagine if they just gave the non tax
put this flies in the face of put shooting around him.
But like magine putting Steven Adams on this team as
you're five, Like that's just like like do stuff like that,
like go out trade for shooting signs like a high
character guy or and someone who's actually useful with the
mid level. And I think, look, I know they have
Grant Williams, I know they have Diabat on this roster.
I know Mark Williams is technically still there. I'm like
kind of infatuated with, Like, no, let's try some different
type of stuff at the five. I don't think you
can get nas red with the mid level. But like
Brook Lopez isn't a terrible fit here. Al Horford could
be fun if he just doesn't have mid level offers
and they're wily them the most money there. But like
I think that's the pathway for them is like let's
put more shooting on the court. I would like to
see them figure out like the five spot rotation with someone,
if not more permanent, I will say, better than Mark
Williams slash Grant Williams who will come back from injury
slash Deabata that that whole nine. I'm also looking at,
like will anyone give you anything for Miles Bridges, Like
that's not someone that I feel inclined to keep around
and on them.
Speaker 3: Sure, I think I would co sign what you're saying of, Like.
Speaker 2: It's almost like you're asking the Horns to kind of
do their due diligence on like what could we actually
accomplish with LaMelo surrounded by like a real supporting cast.
You probably should find that out before you make the decision.
I keep pushing them towards of like either move him
or really go for it. Like it's kind of like
I kept talking about this season's Rockets as like they're
on a fact finding mission, like let's see what these
guys look like together.
Speaker 3: How good can they be?
Speaker 2: Like Charlotte, maybe should I think I would co sign
that idea as long as there was like this understanding
that we're pulling the ripcord if he gets hurt again
and or this just doesn't work and we're really moving on.
Speaker 1: And you know what, that's the tough part of it all, too,
is because I would argue against moving LaMelo now because
I wouldn't say his values add it's nay dear, but
it's coming off like finishes the season on the shelf.
But you could also say, well, you know that doesn't
mean his trade value is gonna go up, like we've
how long has it been since he finished the season healthy?
And you could say, well, part of that is the
situation they are in, but like we are now three years,
like twenty two his sophomore season was the last time
he missed fewer than twenty games.
Speaker 2: Yeah that it's like, no, it's a calculated risk either way,
you know what I mean, Like you can bet on
him being better and you know, bumping up that trade
value or just proving to be so good that you're
like we're never trading him, or things could get worse
like that. Really, like we don't. I don't think we
account for that like he could his value could be lower.
That really is true. I I like the I like
the the like let's see what's up year kind of idea.
And it's especially you might make the playoffs right, And
I also.
Speaker 1: Think, by the way, and this might be where we
would diverge it. I think he's kind of maybe not
indispensable too, but he's important to like if you want
to streamline the development of Brandon Miller and whoever you
take it number four, Having someone who could do the
heavy lifting on offense makes their jobs easier and allows
you to bring them along more slowly. Now you could say, like,
well that's I just don't think that he's gonna uplift
guys like that. I think he is capable of that player.
It just for me comes down to can we see
him play in sixty plus games again?
Speaker 3: Right?
Speaker 2: It'd be a real different conversation about him if he
just didn't have the injury stuff.
Speaker 1: Got anything else to say on this team before we
could at or are you ready to take us out of here?
Speaker 2: I think that's gonna do it for Charlotte. Thanks everybody
for listening, for watching, Member to rate, review, subscribe.
Speaker 3: Gives a thumbs up on YouTube. Believe it's a comment there.
Speaker 2: Tell your friends, tell your enemy's joining our discord links
for that in YouTube and podcast description.
Speaker 3: I think that's good man, we've banged that out. That's good. Okay.
Speaker 2: Charlotte was much more interesting than I thought. Hopefully their
offseason is more.
Speaker 1: We were just asking questions.
Speaker 3: They're just asking questions, that's all. Don't take don't don't
take them to heart. We're not trying to trade. Lamia
shouts Frank Milo King. Apologies, Dared Allen m.