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Welcome to the Family vdW group. 9 00:00:30.760 --> 00:00:32.479 No perch is necessary, bel we were premitted by loss 10 00:00:32.479 --> 00:00:34.759 he terms and conditions eighteen plus. 11 00:00:34.600 --> 00:00:35.600 Okay, round two. 12 00:00:36.000 --> 00:00:38.560 Name something that's not boring. 13 00:00:38.840 --> 00:00:43.000 Laundry, a book club, computer solitaire. 14 00:00:43.200 --> 00:00:49.799 Huh ah, Sorry, we were looking for Chumba Casino to jump. 15 00:00:50.200 --> 00:00:53.079 That's right, chumbacasino dot com as over one hundred casino 16 00:00:53.119 --> 00:00:55.479 style games joined today and play for free for your 17 00:00:55.520 --> 00:01:00.119 chance to redeem some serious prizes to chump Chumba Casino 18 00:01:00.200 --> 00:01:00.759 dot com. 19 00:01:02.359 --> 00:01:06.000 Plus contion the Westails Love host Radio. 20 00:01:15.120 --> 00:01:18.560 You are now listening to True Murder, the most shocking 21 00:01:18.640 --> 00:01:21.680 killers in true crime history and the authors that have 22 00:01:21.760 --> 00:01:29.319 written about them. Gasey Bundy, Dahmer, The Nightstalker, VCK every week, 23 00:01:29.480 --> 00:01:33.319 another fascinating author talking about the most shocking and infamous 24 00:01:33.400 --> 00:01:37.400 killers in true crime history. True Murder with your host, 25 00:01:37.760 --> 00:01:50.840 journalist and author Dan Zupansky. Good evening, This is your 26 00:01:50.840 --> 00:01:53.799 host Dan Zupanski for the program True Murder, the most 27 00:01:53.799 --> 00:01:56.480 shocking killers in true crime history and the authors that 28 00:01:56.519 --> 00:02:00.319 have written about them. Beside New Mexico's Elephant but Lake 29 00:02:00.439 --> 00:02:03.799 stood a windowless trailer which owner David Parker Ray fifty 30 00:02:03.879 --> 00:02:08.039 nine and his girlfriend's girlfriend, Cynthia Hendy thirty nine, called 31 00:02:08.080 --> 00:02:12.520 the Toy Box. A one hundred thousand dollars homemade torture chamber. 32 00:02:13.039 --> 00:02:17.879 He was equipped with whips, chains, pulleys, straps, clamps, leg 33 00:02:17.960 --> 00:02:22.599 spreader bars, and surgical blades and saws. A camcorder stood 34 00:02:22.639 --> 00:02:25.439 next to the leather padded torture table, set up to 35 00:02:25.439 --> 00:02:29.280 make snuff videos, while the ceiling mounted video monitor allowed 36 00:02:29.280 --> 00:02:33.159 female victims to see every excruciating detail of the agonies 37 00:02:33.199 --> 00:02:36.400 inflicted on them by their captors. Never trust a chain 38 00:02:36.520 --> 00:02:39.879 captive was one of the rules David Ray kept posted 39 00:02:39.919 --> 00:02:42.800 as a reminder to himself and his followers. His truth 40 00:02:42.879 --> 00:02:45.400 was proven on March twenty second, nineteen ninety nine, when 41 00:02:45.840 --> 00:02:50.159 after surviving a three day torture orgy. Cindy Vigil twenty 42 00:02:50.159 --> 00:02:53.520 two stabbed Hendy with an ice pick and escaped, clad 43 00:02:53.560 --> 00:02:56.840 only in a slave collar and padlock change. She told 44 00:02:56.840 --> 00:02:59.360 police that she'd been kidnapped, raped, and tortured by Ray 45 00:02:59.360 --> 00:03:03.199 and Hendy. A second victim, Angie Montano, twenty seven, came 46 00:03:03.240 --> 00:03:05.800 forward to describe how she'd survived a similar ordeal less 47 00:03:05.800 --> 00:03:09.159 than a month before. Satanist Ray was the center of 48 00:03:09.159 --> 00:03:12.039 a web of Satanism, sex, slavery. 49 00:03:11.639 --> 00:03:12.159 And murder. 50 00:03:12.800 --> 00:03:16.439 His disciple, drifter Roy Yancey, confessed to strangling to death 51 00:03:16.520 --> 00:03:20.520 Marie Parker twenty two while Ray took photos. Ray's daughter 52 00:03:20.639 --> 00:03:23.280 Jesse thirty one, was convicted of helping her father kidnap 53 00:03:23.319 --> 00:03:28.000 and torture Kelly van Cleeve twenty two. Cynthia Hendy told 54 00:03:28.039 --> 00:03:31.120 authorities that Ray had killed fourteen women. Police believed that 55 00:03:31.159 --> 00:03:34.599 he may have slain more than sixty. My special guest 56 00:03:34.599 --> 00:03:39.080 this evening is the author of Slow Death, author Jim Fielder. 57 00:03:39.240 --> 00:03:41.039 Thank you very much for agreeing to this interview, and 58 00:03:41.080 --> 00:03:42.719 welcome to the program. Jim Fielder. 59 00:03:43.479 --> 00:03:44.319 It's good to be here. 60 00:03:45.080 --> 00:03:48.560 Thank you very much, Jim for agreeing to this interview. Now. 61 00:03:48.599 --> 00:03:52.719 First off, I'm very interested what made you want to write? 62 00:03:53.240 --> 00:03:55.360 This is your very first true crime book. So what 63 00:03:55.400 --> 00:03:57.439 made you want to write a book about this case? 64 00:03:57.560 --> 00:03:59.879 How did you come to write Slow Death? 65 00:04:01.000 --> 00:04:04.360 Well, I've been plugging away as a writer for seventeen years, 66 00:04:04.680 --> 00:04:06.919 and about a year and a half before this happened, 67 00:04:06.960 --> 00:04:10.840 I UH interviewed Mary Lauturna, the child rapist UH teacher 68 00:04:10.919 --> 00:04:14.759 from the Seattle area. Some wouldn't call her a rapist, 69 00:04:14.800 --> 00:04:18.879 but anyway, I spent six months interviewing her in jail, 70 00:04:18.959 --> 00:04:23.319 and I was a little overconfident. Maybe after seventeen years 71 00:04:23.319 --> 00:04:25.319 I deserve to be, but I thought i'd get a 72 00:04:25.319 --> 00:04:27.759 book deal to write about her, and she was pretty 73 00:04:28.040 --> 00:04:31.680 infamous back in ninety seven and ninety eight. Well that 74 00:04:31.680 --> 00:04:33.439 that didn't turn out to be the case. I got 75 00:04:33.439 --> 00:04:35.759 turned in a couple of times and they told me 76 00:04:35.800 --> 00:04:37.920 the same thing, and maybe some of the listeners can 77 00:04:38.000 --> 00:04:42.720 identify with this. They they'd ask, you know, what was 78 00:04:42.800 --> 00:04:44.759 my last book? And I didn't have a last book, 79 00:04:44.800 --> 00:04:47.839 and then they'd hire somebody from their stable writers to 80 00:04:47.879 --> 00:04:50.519 write about the subject. So anyway, I was just sitting 81 00:04:50.560 --> 00:04:53.199 around for a year waiting for things to happen. My 82 00:04:53.240 --> 00:04:56.800 wife and I were pretty anxious. I'd written a magazine 83 00:04:56.879 --> 00:05:00.360 article and I'd gone on Good Morning America CHESS a 84 00:05:00.399 --> 00:05:04.160 viewership of about ten million people, so I got some 85 00:05:04.240 --> 00:05:07.360 exposure on the laterno case, and I have to thank Mary. 86 00:05:07.439 --> 00:05:09.839 She was real open and gave me a lot of 87 00:05:09.879 --> 00:05:13.279 interesting information about her life, but it didn't go anywhere. 88 00:05:14.000 --> 00:05:16.519 So a year later I was plugging away working for 89 00:05:16.560 --> 00:05:20.040 the tabloids. I was writing articles for The Globe and 90 00:05:20.079 --> 00:05:23.879 the Star to tabloids here in America, and I had 91 00:05:23.920 --> 00:05:27.199 an editor that I really liked. He really was one 92 00:05:27.279 --> 00:05:30.319 of the best editors I've ever met in my life. 93 00:05:30.560 --> 00:05:34.120 And he called me one day a year later after 94 00:05:34.160 --> 00:05:37.000 the Liturno thing fell apart, and he said, Jim, there's 95 00:05:37.040 --> 00:05:40.000 a guy in New Mexico, a serial killer who's got 96 00:05:40.000 --> 00:05:43.480 a girlfriend from the Seattle area. And he said, I'm 97 00:05:43.480 --> 00:05:45.240 going to send you ten grand and I want you 98 00:05:45.319 --> 00:05:50.000 to go up to Evertt Monroe and interview Andy's relatives, 99 00:05:50.040 --> 00:05:55.720 her ex husbands, husband's, her children, anybody that knew her. 100 00:05:56.480 --> 00:06:00.360 So I took off and bought some great photographs and 101 00:06:00.399 --> 00:06:03.360 I think I bought some interviews also, but I ended 102 00:06:03.439 --> 00:06:08.399 up meeting some down and out interesting people, and I 103 00:06:08.439 --> 00:06:12.879 wrote an article for the Star, but it was just 104 00:06:13.120 --> 00:06:15.240 like one bad luck story after another. I know this 105 00:06:15.279 --> 00:06:18.480 is kind of a long answer, but I think it's important. 106 00:06:19.600 --> 00:06:24.480 The kids at Columbine High School killed their classmates seventeen 107 00:06:24.560 --> 00:06:27.600 days after I finished my article about David Parker Ray, 108 00:06:28.199 --> 00:06:32.920 so nobody was interested in Ray anymore. All of a sudden, 109 00:06:32.920 --> 00:06:35.720 they were very interested in these high school kids. So 110 00:06:36.040 --> 00:06:39.959 I took my information and one day I had lunch. 111 00:06:40.560 --> 00:06:42.279 This is kind of critical too. I had lunch with 112 00:06:42.360 --> 00:06:45.600 a guy who got the Laturno deal, a terrific local 113 00:06:45.879 --> 00:06:50.240 true crime writer named Greg Olsen, and I said, Greg, 114 00:06:50.279 --> 00:06:51.600 what do you think I should do with all this 115 00:06:51.720 --> 00:06:55.240 material I got on David Parker Ray and Cynthia Handy's girlfriend, 116 00:06:55.800 --> 00:06:57.680 And he said, why don't you send it to Kensington 117 00:06:57.759 --> 00:07:02.199 Publishing Jim and pitch a book. And I was anxious 118 00:07:02.240 --> 00:07:03.639 to write a book, or at least proved that I 119 00:07:03.680 --> 00:07:07.199 could write a book. And so I did, and I 120 00:07:07.240 --> 00:07:10.360 was real lucky. I heard Micjagger on TV the other 121 00:07:10.439 --> 00:07:14.120 night talk about the role that luck plays in anyone's success, 122 00:07:14.879 --> 00:07:19.279 and I think that's very true. He said, everybody works hard, 123 00:07:19.360 --> 00:07:21.279 lots of people work hard but don't get lucky, and 124 00:07:21.879 --> 00:07:24.759 I've been working pretty hard for a long time, but 125 00:07:24.920 --> 00:07:27.480 finally I got lucky. There was an editor at Kensington 126 00:07:27.560 --> 00:07:31.199 who thought my magazine piece on Laturno was excellent and 127 00:07:31.319 --> 00:07:33.959 asked me to put a proposal together on David Parker Ray. 128 00:07:34.160 --> 00:07:37.639 And I did not understand at the time what a 129 00:07:37.759 --> 00:07:41.600 nasty story this is going to be. And I don't 130 00:07:41.639 --> 00:07:44.439 regret that. I think David's story is one of the 131 00:07:44.480 --> 00:07:47.920 most horrific things you could ever read about in true crime. 132 00:07:49.959 --> 00:07:53.680 It's definitely kept people up at night. And we just 133 00:07:53.759 --> 00:07:56.839 got published in England under a different title, the Chamber 134 00:07:56.879 --> 00:07:59.439 of Horrors, and on the cover of the English book 135 00:08:00.079 --> 00:08:03.439 book it says America's worst serial killer. And I'm not 136 00:08:03.480 --> 00:08:07.720 an expert on serial killers, but I can't imagine anything 137 00:08:08.000 --> 00:08:11.040 being more horrible than what David did to people by 138 00:08:11.079 --> 00:08:14.519 torturing them for days and weeks at a time before 139 00:08:14.560 --> 00:08:17.560 he probably killed them. In any case, I got a 140 00:08:17.560 --> 00:08:20.040 book deal to give you a very long answer to 141 00:08:20.040 --> 00:08:23.279 a very interesting question. And in the editor at the 142 00:08:23.319 --> 00:08:26.600 time this is my last little comment about my change 143 00:08:26.600 --> 00:08:29.000 of luck. He said this won't take more than six 144 00:08:29.040 --> 00:08:32.320 months to finish this book, and I didn't care how 145 00:08:32.320 --> 00:08:34.200 long it took. I wanted to go to New Mexico. 146 00:08:34.240 --> 00:08:36.639 I'm kind of an outdoor guy. I wanted to fish 147 00:08:36.639 --> 00:08:39.799 and I can do some other things, and I knew 148 00:08:39.879 --> 00:08:43.320 New Mexico is a beautiful place. By the way, in 149 00:08:43.759 --> 00:08:47.799 case anybody's listening from that area, they pronounced the name 150 00:08:47.840 --> 00:08:52.879 of the lake elephant, Butte Lake, the one right next 151 00:08:52.919 --> 00:08:57.639 to Truth or Consequences, that's where David lived. But anyway, 152 00:08:57.960 --> 00:09:01.440 as it turned out, the book took almost four years 153 00:09:02.399 --> 00:09:07.159 to finish, but I don't regreat a minute of it. 154 00:09:07.159 --> 00:09:09.639 It's still alive and well, ten years after I got 155 00:09:09.679 --> 00:09:12.759 the book deal, which was in ninety nine, longer than 156 00:09:12.759 --> 00:09:17.519 that actually, And because of the Internet, there seems to 157 00:09:17.559 --> 00:09:20.960 be a heightened interest in this story. 158 00:09:21.080 --> 00:09:24.399 Yes, And I think as this a true crime reader's appetite, 159 00:09:24.399 --> 00:09:27.799 it gets more and more sensationalistic, or they're looking for 160 00:09:27.840 --> 00:09:31.320 something more out of the ordinary. Despite all the famous 161 00:09:31.360 --> 00:09:34.879 and infamous serial killers and their ghastly crimes, they're always 162 00:09:34.879 --> 00:09:37.399 looking for something else. And this is something that I 163 00:09:37.440 --> 00:09:39.679 hadn't known about. And I'm sure a lot of other 164 00:09:39.720 --> 00:09:43.559 people are catching up to this story and That's why 165 00:09:43.559 --> 00:09:45.360 I think this is destined to be a real true 166 00:09:45.360 --> 00:09:46.080 crime classic. 167 00:09:47.039 --> 00:09:50.440 It delivers. This story really delivers. 168 00:09:50.080 --> 00:09:53.639 Absolutely so well, let's get to that delivering the goods here. 169 00:09:53.919 --> 00:09:55.879 First thing I wanted to do is that really set 170 00:09:55.960 --> 00:09:58.480 up the story takes place that you had mentioned in 171 00:09:58.519 --> 00:10:01.159 a place called truth or Consequence, and I thought that 172 00:10:01.240 --> 00:10:04.200 the background story on this wasn't the story. The city 173 00:10:04.240 --> 00:10:06.399 was originally called Hot Springs. Give us a little bit 174 00:10:06.440 --> 00:10:09.559 description of how big an area we're talking about? How 175 00:10:09.559 --> 00:10:12.360 big is this town? Why did it change its name? 176 00:10:13.279 --> 00:10:16.120 And what was it like? What's the makeup like it 177 00:10:16.200 --> 00:10:18.639 as a religious place, is a blue collar place? What 178 00:10:19.159 --> 00:10:22.720 is what is the truth or goings and consequences like? 179 00:10:22.799 --> 00:10:24.480 Describe that for us before we started. 180 00:10:24.840 --> 00:10:28.039 I think it's probably changed over the years. At the 181 00:10:28.080 --> 00:10:31.639 post time, at the time David was arrested, it was 182 00:10:31.639 --> 00:10:35.440 a It was a drug town. In my opinion. One 183 00:10:35.480 --> 00:10:37.399 of the local reporters told me that half of the 184 00:10:37.440 --> 00:10:41.399 six thousand people were taking math amphetamins. And I don't 185 00:10:41.399 --> 00:10:43.519 know how you proved something like that, but I think 186 00:10:43.519 --> 00:10:46.639 that that gives you an idea of what was going 187 00:10:46.679 --> 00:10:51.480 on there. It had a huge drug problem. Well, I 188 00:10:51.480 --> 00:10:53.679 suppose people who take drugs. I don't think it's a problem, 189 00:10:53.759 --> 00:10:57.279 but there are a lot of people who don't work there. 190 00:10:58.320 --> 00:11:00.240 And I think that's all changed a lot in the 191 00:11:00.279 --> 00:11:02.480 last ten years. And I'll tell you more about that later. 192 00:11:02.559 --> 00:11:05.559 But back in about nineteen fifty, there was a radio 193 00:11:05.600 --> 00:11:08.679 show called Truth or Consequences run by a guy named 194 00:11:08.759 --> 00:11:11.279 Ralph Edwards. And I'm old enough to remember that show 195 00:11:11.399 --> 00:11:13.960 being on the radio when as a little kid. And 196 00:11:14.720 --> 00:11:18.799 apparently he offered any time in America a special deal 197 00:11:18.840 --> 00:11:20.679 that he'd come and broadcasts in their town if they 198 00:11:20.840 --> 00:11:23.919 changed their name to Truth their Consequences, which was the 199 00:11:23.960 --> 00:11:26.879 name of his radio show, and the people in Hot 200 00:11:26.879 --> 00:11:29.039 Springs voted to go ahead and do that. They were 201 00:11:29.080 --> 00:11:33.480 probably looking for a little promotion. The area where the 202 00:11:33.519 --> 00:11:37.200 town is located is stunningly beautiful. It's out in the desert, 203 00:11:37.679 --> 00:11:41.919 next to the Black Range Mountains on one side and 204 00:11:42.240 --> 00:11:46.200 the Valley of Death as the Mexican people once called 205 00:11:46.200 --> 00:11:51.919 it on the east side. It's full of beautiful sunsets. 206 00:11:51.919 --> 00:11:55.240 They get about three hundred sent days a year. I 207 00:11:55.240 --> 00:11:57.600 wouldn't mind living there. Actually, if I hadn't written this book, 208 00:11:57.639 --> 00:12:02.919 maybe i'd move there. But it's at the time this 209 00:12:03.000 --> 00:12:06.399 broke there were some pretty nasty things going on in town, 210 00:12:06.559 --> 00:12:09.399 nothing to compare with what David was doing, But he'd 211 00:12:09.399 --> 00:12:12.639 been there for several years, torturing people in this eight 212 00:12:12.759 --> 00:12:15.679 x twenty five foot trailer out in front of his house. 213 00:12:15.720 --> 00:12:18.240 And it's still hard for me to imagine that a 214 00:12:18.240 --> 00:12:20.720 lot of people in town didn't have some idea of 215 00:12:20.799 --> 00:12:21.600 what was going on. 216 00:12:23.480 --> 00:12:26.799 Okay, let's start with the way you've laid out your 217 00:12:26.799 --> 00:12:29.799 book is very, very interesting, and again, if you're going 218 00:12:29.799 --> 00:12:33.000 to have a book that really compels people to read 219 00:12:33.360 --> 00:12:35.840 the story, this is I think the way to do it. 220 00:12:35.919 --> 00:12:37.600 So a lot of of course, you don't have to 221 00:12:37.600 --> 00:12:40.200 put in chronological order, And I wanted to ask you 222 00:12:40.320 --> 00:12:43.879 why many you start with a prologue to your book, 223 00:12:43.879 --> 00:12:48.759 which isn't unusual in itself, but you include certain information 224 00:12:48.919 --> 00:12:51.639 in the very beginning of your book. Now I wanted 225 00:12:51.639 --> 00:12:54.480 to ask you what is included in the prologue and 226 00:12:54.519 --> 00:12:56.840 why did you feel it best to put it where 227 00:12:56.879 --> 00:12:59.919 you did? Why are you introducing that information? 228 00:13:00.320 --> 00:13:05.519 So there's one other a couple of really interesting facts 229 00:13:05.559 --> 00:13:10.240 that come out in the prologue. Let me just read 230 00:13:10.279 --> 00:13:12.440 when little section this is the first thing you read 231 00:13:12.440 --> 00:13:15.440 in the book. This is a police search warrant from 232 00:13:15.440 --> 00:13:20.240 April thirteenth, nineteen ninety nine. And you have to remember 233 00:13:20.480 --> 00:13:22.799 that the description of this video that you're going to 234 00:13:22.879 --> 00:13:26.679 hear from this police warrant. I never saw a video 235 00:13:27.720 --> 00:13:30.320 showing any of this at all, but I did see 236 00:13:30.080 --> 00:13:34.639 the hard copy from the police. Listen to this. The 237 00:13:34.720 --> 00:13:38.000 black mask and the storage shed, David's storage shed that 238 00:13:38.039 --> 00:13:41.759 they were searching appears from the description given to be 239 00:13:41.840 --> 00:13:45.240 the mask or similar mask which David Ray has been 240 00:13:45.240 --> 00:13:49.720 observed wearing in videotapes which were seized from his residents 241 00:13:49.720 --> 00:13:55.440 and which were viewed by officers pursuing to previous search warrants. Well, 242 00:13:56.639 --> 00:13:59.799 I've always felt that there were videos that nobody's ever seen. 243 00:14:00.159 --> 00:14:03.279 I'm not even sure if Jim Yon's the prosecutor, saw 244 00:14:03.320 --> 00:14:08.000 this video, but I've always felt that the FBI had 245 00:14:08.080 --> 00:14:10.799 more material that they didn't really So a lot of 246 00:14:10.879 --> 00:14:13.960 law enforcement people were worried that if the public got 247 00:14:14.279 --> 00:14:17.559 too much information about David Ray, it would incite a 248 00:14:17.559 --> 00:14:21.200 lot of violent behavior. So that's one thing that search 249 00:14:21.279 --> 00:14:24.519 warrant which remains mysterious to me because there's only one 250 00:14:24.679 --> 00:14:28.519 video of David that anybody has ever seen anybody from 251 00:14:28.559 --> 00:14:31.240 the outside world like me or people who went to 252 00:14:31.279 --> 00:14:35.279 the two trials, And that's a six minute videotape, and 253 00:14:35.360 --> 00:14:39.279 David's definitely not wearing a black mask. The second part 254 00:14:39.320 --> 00:14:42.919 of the prologue deals with FBI agent and the decision 255 00:14:42.960 --> 00:14:45.759 by the FBI, which I personally thought was really a 256 00:14:45.799 --> 00:14:52.000 bad one. A woman named well, I won't really describe 257 00:14:52.039 --> 00:14:55.240 her by name. Her family's probably suffered nothing. If people 258 00:14:55.240 --> 00:14:57.000 read the book, they'll get it anyway. But a thirty 259 00:14:57.039 --> 00:14:59.519 six year old woman was hired by the FBI one 260 00:14:59.519 --> 00:15:02.639 of their agents, to go into David's torture chamber, which 261 00:15:02.639 --> 00:15:05.039 had one hundred thousand dollars worth of equipment, and it 262 00:15:05.120 --> 00:15:07.720 had a chinological table that he strapped women down to. 263 00:15:08.200 --> 00:15:11.559 It had television sets that forced them to watch their 264 00:15:11.600 --> 00:15:15.159 bodies being tortured by David. There was an eighteen inch 265 00:15:15.200 --> 00:15:18.399 of dildo with a motor with a high and low 266 00:15:18.440 --> 00:15:23.720 and medium speed. Indescribable stuff. You know. Some of it 267 00:15:23.799 --> 00:15:26.840 he made, some of it he bought in legal stores. 268 00:15:27.440 --> 00:15:31.519 But the FBI decided to send a woman in to 269 00:15:31.559 --> 00:15:35.080 make drawings of what this place looked like and maybe 270 00:15:35.120 --> 00:15:37.399 I'm just an old fashioned, macho guy, but I wouldn't 271 00:15:37.399 --> 00:15:40.159 send a woman in to view this stuff at all, 272 00:15:40.519 --> 00:15:42.279 even though a lot of women read this book. There's 273 00:15:42.279 --> 00:15:45.720 a big difference between reading about this stuff and seeing it. 274 00:15:47.159 --> 00:15:48.799 And I've seen a lot of the pictures of what 275 00:15:48.840 --> 00:15:50.960 it looked like inside, so I know quite a bit 276 00:15:50.960 --> 00:15:54.440 about that. I've also seen David's drawings, which are really 277 00:15:54.519 --> 00:15:59.519 monstrous torture drawings. But what happened was Russ went in 278 00:16:00.679 --> 00:16:04.919 and uh, she did her job for several days, and 279 00:16:04.919 --> 00:16:08.440 then she drove to Albuquerque. I guess I did mention 280 00:16:08.519 --> 00:16:10.919 her by name, but she drove to Albuquerque and reported 281 00:16:10.919 --> 00:16:13.559 to her boss and then went back to al Paso 282 00:16:13.919 --> 00:16:15.120 and shot and killed herself. 283 00:16:16.519 --> 00:16:17.639 It's incredible, struck me. 284 00:16:17.759 --> 00:16:20.879 Is really interesting when the story was all over, that 285 00:16:20.960 --> 00:16:24.080 if David hadn't been captured, she might have still been alive. 286 00:16:25.559 --> 00:16:27.039 True Crime has a lot. 287 00:16:26.840 --> 00:16:30.240 Of really okay Round two. 288 00:16:30.639 --> 00:16:32.840 Name something that's not boring. 289 00:16:33.480 --> 00:16:37.639 Laundry book club, computer solitaire. 290 00:16:37.840 --> 00:16:42.559 Huh oh, sorry, we were looking for Chumbu Casino. 291 00:16:44.200 --> 00:16:45.320 Um, that's right. 292 00:16:45.440 --> 00:16:48.399 Chumbucasino dot com as over one hundred casino style games 293 00:16:48.559 --> 00:16:50.519 joined today and played for free for your chance to 294 00:16:50.519 --> 00:16:55.600 redeem some serious prizes chum chumbacasino dot com. 295 00:16:58.919 --> 00:17:02.159 Strange twist, and that might not not have been one 296 00:17:02.159 --> 00:17:04.599 that people would have thought about it before. And I 297 00:17:04.640 --> 00:17:06.880 didn't think about it for a long time either, But 298 00:17:07.079 --> 00:17:09.160 I always felt real bad that that happened. 299 00:17:08.799 --> 00:17:12.359 To her and her family, certainly, and it really is 300 00:17:12.400 --> 00:17:14.359 a testament that you know, we see all kinds of 301 00:17:14.400 --> 00:17:18.440 programs where these police are are eager, they love their job, 302 00:17:18.519 --> 00:17:22.039 where you know it affects them. But this is the 303 00:17:22.079 --> 00:17:25.519 real story where somebody so affected they kill themselves. Those 304 00:17:26.039 --> 00:17:29.160 memories are haunting them. They can't handle this job that 305 00:17:29.240 --> 00:17:33.960 they certainly took, knowing what possibly could they could see 306 00:17:34.000 --> 00:17:35.359 on the job, but what they could experience. 307 00:17:35.400 --> 00:17:37.319 And yet well, and they always say that true crime 308 00:17:37.440 --> 00:17:39.720 is like throwing a rock in a lake. The ripples 309 00:17:39.720 --> 00:17:43.559 cisco off forever in all directions, and it affects so 310 00:17:43.559 --> 00:17:47.000 many people's lives. This story is still having negative impact 311 00:17:47.079 --> 00:17:47.880 on a lot of people. 312 00:17:48.240 --> 00:17:54.240 Oh, certainly, now we have one of the main characters 313 00:17:54.240 --> 00:17:57.480 in this harrowing story is Cindy Vigil twenty two. You 314 00:17:57.519 --> 00:18:04.079 introduced your fancy vehil thankish word, So yeah, v hill Ville, Okay, yeah, thanks. 315 00:18:04.480 --> 00:18:06.880 Now you introduced her in chapter one. What are the 316 00:18:06.880 --> 00:18:11.880 circumstances in which we the reader get to meet Cindy V. Hill. 317 00:18:12.000 --> 00:18:14.759 Well, Cindy V. Hill when she was in her early twenties. 318 00:18:15.960 --> 00:18:17.920 I think it's fair for me to say this because 319 00:18:17.960 --> 00:18:19.680 I've spent a lot of time talking to her. But 320 00:18:19.720 --> 00:18:23.400 she made some bad decisions about her life, and she 321 00:18:23.519 --> 00:18:27.160 was working as a hooker out on Central Avenue in Albuquerque, 322 00:18:27.759 --> 00:18:33.960 and she got lured by David's girlfriend one day into 323 00:18:33.960 --> 00:18:39.640 the back of their little mobile home trailer, and all 324 00:18:39.640 --> 00:18:42.119 of a sudden, v Hill the girlfriend pulled a gun 325 00:18:42.160 --> 00:18:45.440 on her, and they blindfolded her and gagged her and 326 00:18:45.519 --> 00:18:49.359 chained her to the wall and drove her south one 327 00:18:49.400 --> 00:18:53.039 hundred and twenty miles south to treat her consequences, and 328 00:18:53.480 --> 00:18:56.519 kept her for three days and tortured her. So you 329 00:18:56.599 --> 00:18:59.319 know that she's a prostitute. And that made the book 330 00:18:59.400 --> 00:19:01.640 challenging the right because a lot of people don't think 331 00:19:01.640 --> 00:19:06.559 prostitutes are sympathetic. But in my opinion, if everybody in 332 00:19:06.599 --> 00:19:08.880 life was honest about what they did sexually between the 333 00:19:08.880 --> 00:19:11.880 ages of twenty and thirty, there might be a lot 334 00:19:11.880 --> 00:19:15.880 of scandalous stories out there, and I've seen how she's 335 00:19:15.880 --> 00:19:19.519 turned her life around since this happened. She's married and 336 00:19:19.599 --> 00:19:23.559 has three kids, she's doing a beautiful job raising and 337 00:19:23.640 --> 00:19:27.400 she's turned into a wonderful person. It could be that 338 00:19:27.480 --> 00:19:31.640 this experience really altered her in some positive ways, even 339 00:19:31.680 --> 00:19:35.400 though her three days was pretty monstrous. 340 00:19:36.000 --> 00:19:39.400 Right now, let's get to you know, you've described somewhat 341 00:19:39.519 --> 00:19:43.759 the torture chamber, but we'd have not met David Parker Ray, 342 00:19:43.839 --> 00:19:48.240 and we have not met his partner. Let's go back, 343 00:19:48.559 --> 00:19:51.799 give us a little bit of background on David Parker Ray, 344 00:19:52.319 --> 00:19:55.119 and then we can go on and talk about his 345 00:19:56.079 --> 00:19:58.519 partner in crime, and then we can go on to 346 00:19:58.640 --> 00:20:00.759 the whole group and satan Is and talk about so 347 00:20:00.799 --> 00:20:03.599 many of these other things. Tell us about the main 348 00:20:03.720 --> 00:20:09.160 subject of this book, the very charismatic, I would say, 349 00:20:09.160 --> 00:20:11.920 But the subject of this book, David Parker Ray. Tell 350 00:20:12.000 --> 00:20:12.960 us a little bit about him. 351 00:20:13.319 --> 00:20:15.359 Well, I think a lot of us have met people 352 00:20:15.440 --> 00:20:20.559 like David. He was tall and shy and kept himself 353 00:20:20.599 --> 00:20:25.359 a lot. He was an ace mechanic. Some people that 354 00:20:25.440 --> 00:20:27.720 worked with him said he was the best car mechanic 355 00:20:28.079 --> 00:20:30.480 they'd ever met. So he was good with his hands 356 00:20:30.960 --> 00:20:35.279 and he was good with details. He grew up way 357 00:20:35.359 --> 00:20:38.720 out in the country, far away from every major city, 358 00:20:39.000 --> 00:20:43.720 a pretty lonely kid in a lot of respects. In fact, 359 00:20:43.720 --> 00:20:46.559 the way he got his name is pretty interesting. He 360 00:20:46.680 --> 00:20:50.799 had two uncles, one whose name was David, and long 361 00:20:50.839 --> 00:20:55.160 before he was born, his uncle David was shot and 362 00:20:55.240 --> 00:20:58.519 killed by his brother in an accidental shooting, and his 363 00:20:58.599 --> 00:21:01.119 grandma decided that's where his name would come from. And 364 00:21:01.279 --> 00:21:03.440 he wasn't real fond of his grandma. He's not from 365 00:21:03.480 --> 00:21:07.640 what he told me anyway, And he said, by the 366 00:21:07.680 --> 00:21:11.200 time I was twelve thirteen years old, I had explosive 367 00:21:11.279 --> 00:21:14.039 as I was blowing up stumps. And he claims in 368 00:21:14.079 --> 00:21:16.400 his journals, in his own writings that by the time 369 00:21:16.480 --> 00:21:19.720 he was fifteen or sixteen, he had broken beer bottles 370 00:21:19.839 --> 00:21:23.119 that he was using to torture girls with. So he 371 00:21:23.920 --> 00:21:27.319 was into this stuff for a long time. Most criminals 372 00:21:27.359 --> 00:21:30.279 get caught after ten or fifteen years. David was a 373 00:21:30.319 --> 00:21:35.680 criminal for at least forty years. He opened up to 374 00:21:35.720 --> 00:21:37.920 the FBI. He did a three hundred page interview with 375 00:21:37.960 --> 00:21:40.599 the FBI, But I don't know if they forgot to 376 00:21:40.599 --> 00:21:42.759 tell him that he had the right to an attorney 377 00:21:42.839 --> 00:21:46.519 or not. But unfortunately that terrific interview, which I've read 378 00:21:46.519 --> 00:21:50.000 about half of, was not allowed in court because he 379 00:21:50.039 --> 00:21:52.599 wasn't told what his rights were. But I think they 380 00:21:52.599 --> 00:21:54.519 were trying to get him to open up and tell 381 00:21:54.559 --> 00:22:00.559 them as much as possible, and he basically manipulated almost 382 00:22:00.599 --> 00:22:03.440 everybody he ever came in contact with, which means that 383 00:22:03.480 --> 00:22:06.799 he was highly intelligent. One FBI agent told me that 384 00:22:06.880 --> 00:22:10.319 they considered David Ray one of the five most intelligent 385 00:22:10.359 --> 00:22:13.079 criminals they had studied in ninety two years of being 386 00:22:13.079 --> 00:22:16.799 in the business. But he hung out with his friends. 387 00:22:16.799 --> 00:22:19.279 He had a little satanic group of about four or 388 00:22:19.319 --> 00:22:22.480 five people that we know of in town who helped 389 00:22:22.519 --> 00:22:27.480 him torture people. One of the fascinating parts of this 390 00:22:27.559 --> 00:22:31.200 story is that they've never found a body. And if 391 00:22:31.240 --> 00:22:35.319 you ever go to southern New Mexico, it's covered with 392 00:22:35.720 --> 00:22:39.640 old minds, it's covered with caves. There are thousands of 393 00:22:39.640 --> 00:22:44.119 places where you could lower dead bodies underground. Jimmy Jnsen 394 00:22:44.160 --> 00:22:45.720 I used to talk about how there must have been 395 00:22:45.720 --> 00:22:48.279 at last supper scene like the one in the Bible 396 00:22:48.359 --> 00:22:52.200 underground with women's bodies propped up around a table. David 397 00:22:52.279 --> 00:22:54.119 was a splunker, and a lot of people may not 398 00:22:54.279 --> 00:22:57.720 know that word, but he had a license from California 399 00:22:58.359 --> 00:23:01.519 that where they had taught him how to crawl down 400 00:23:01.559 --> 00:23:04.519 in the caves, repelled down in the caves with ropes, 401 00:23:04.599 --> 00:23:07.720