1 00:00:09,880 --> 00:00:12,519 Speaker 1: Hello, and welcome to the Texas Tribune trip Cast for 2 00:00:12,720 --> 00:00:16,079 July eighth, twenty twenty five. I am Matthew Watkins, Editor 3 00:00:16,160 --> 00:00:19,800 in Chief of the Texas Tribune, joined as usual by 4 00:00:19,960 --> 00:00:22,960 Eleanor Klebanoff, Law and Justice reporter, Law and courtse reporter 5 00:00:23,000 --> 00:00:27,000 for the Texas Tribune. Hello, Eleanor, Hey mate. We are talking, 6 00:00:28,079 --> 00:00:31,879 you know, in the aftermath of a tough weekend for Texas, 7 00:00:31,960 --> 00:00:35,640 A tough holiday weekend, of course, everyone knows by now 8 00:00:35,759 --> 00:00:40,159 the flooding in the Hill Country, hitting Kerr County particularly hard. 9 00:00:40,960 --> 00:00:44,159 As we record this at eleven twenty on Tuesday morning, 10 00:00:44,640 --> 00:00:47,719 more than one hundred deaths have been confirmed by state 11 00:00:47,759 --> 00:00:51,600 and local officials, eighty seven of those in Kerr County, 12 00:00:52,039 --> 00:00:56,240 of course, getting a lot of the attention worthy twenty 13 00:00:56,320 --> 00:01:00,880 seven girls and counselors who disappeared from Camp Stick. I 14 00:01:00,920 --> 00:01:05,640 think those are presumed lost at this time, five councilors 15 00:01:05,760 --> 00:01:09,280 in one five campers and one councilor still unaccounted for. 16 00:01:09,599 --> 00:01:15,439 But we are now, you know, several days past the flooding. 17 00:01:15,680 --> 00:01:18,920 We are joined to talk about this with Matt Lanza, 18 00:01:19,040 --> 00:01:24,120 a Houston based meteorologist from Space City Weather and the Eyewall. Matt, 19 00:01:24,159 --> 00:01:25,439 thank you for joining us. 20 00:01:25,920 --> 00:01:29,200 Speaker 2: Yeah, thanks for having me on tough, tough story. For sure. 21 00:01:29,439 --> 00:01:30,480 Speaker 1: Absolutely absolutely. 22 00:01:30,519 --> 00:01:31,239 Speaker 3: Eleanor, you. 23 00:01:32,799 --> 00:01:36,599 Speaker 1: Were in Kerrville on Sunday and Monday, tell us a 24 00:01:36,640 --> 00:01:39,519 little bit, just first and foremost about kind of what 25 00:01:39,640 --> 00:01:43,400 you saw, what the scene is like there right now. 26 00:01:44,359 --> 00:01:46,719 Speaker 4: I mean, it's hard to even like capture in words, 27 00:01:46,760 --> 00:01:48,000 the devastation there. 28 00:01:48,120 --> 00:01:49,599 Speaker 3: I've covered natural disasters. 29 00:01:49,640 --> 00:01:53,280 Speaker 4: This seems like sort of on a level even above that, 30 00:01:54,280 --> 00:01:56,560 particularly when you think about, like it was a flood, 31 00:01:56,599 --> 00:01:58,239 you know, I think I've covered floods. You're used to 32 00:01:58,239 --> 00:02:00,959 seeing people, you know, mucking out their houses and mud 33 00:02:01,040 --> 00:02:03,840 up to their shins and all that. This was, you know, 34 00:02:04,200 --> 00:02:06,640 looked more like a tornado. I mean, r V parks 35 00:02:06,719 --> 00:02:10,159 just ripped through, not just trailers smashed into each other, 36 00:02:10,199 --> 00:02:14,000 but the metal siding ripped off cars. You know. I 37 00:02:14,039 --> 00:02:16,639 saw it on a bridge, a dumpster that was basically, 38 00:02:16,680 --> 00:02:19,400 you know, one of those big metal dumpsters like folded 39 00:02:19,439 --> 00:02:20,520 in half from the water. 40 00:02:20,719 --> 00:02:25,080 Speaker 3: It's you know, and I keep saying this, but it's 41 00:02:25,080 --> 00:02:25,599 really true. 42 00:02:25,599 --> 00:02:28,000 Speaker 4: Like to hear talk to people who lost everything, lost 43 00:02:28,000 --> 00:02:31,080 their homes, their businesses, their everything, they own, their pets, 44 00:02:31,360 --> 00:02:33,960 and to hear them talk about like how incredibly lucky 45 00:02:34,000 --> 00:02:38,360 they feel to be alive after that is really jarring. 46 00:02:38,400 --> 00:02:41,479 It was different than you know, usually people are so 47 00:02:42,319 --> 00:02:45,199 more focused on, you know, the physical things that they lost, 48 00:02:45,240 --> 00:02:48,400 but with sort of these girls missing and the families 49 00:02:48,400 --> 00:02:50,599 missing and the people who you know are are dead 50 00:02:50,639 --> 00:02:53,080 sort of hanging over this, I think it's a really 51 00:02:53,840 --> 00:02:55,400 it's a really emotional place right now. 52 00:02:55,599 --> 00:02:59,560 Speaker 1: Yeah, absolutely, and something being felt I think across the state. 53 00:02:59,639 --> 00:03:01,439 I mean, one of the things and maybe we'll talk 54 00:03:01,439 --> 00:03:03,919 about this a little bit more, is just that I 55 00:03:04,000 --> 00:03:07,879 keep thinking about, is how terrible the timing of this 56 00:03:08,000 --> 00:03:10,960 storm was. I mean, you really, you literally could not 57 00:03:11,080 --> 00:03:14,960 have picked a worse hour for this flood to happen, 58 00:03:15,280 --> 00:03:19,280 you know, of the whole year, right the night before 59 00:03:19,360 --> 00:03:21,800 fourth or really the morning of fourth of July weekend 60 00:03:21,879 --> 00:03:24,800 where there's people from all over the state coming in 61 00:03:24,879 --> 00:03:29,840 to celebrate the holiday. Of course, these summer camps, Camp 62 00:03:29,879 --> 00:03:33,560 Mystic and others as well, where generations of people have gone, 63 00:03:33,759 --> 00:03:38,400 you know, kids from you know, Austin, Houston, Dallas, San Antonio, 64 00:03:38,439 --> 00:03:45,599 everywhere in between. Really really tragic and terrible, and I 65 00:03:45,639 --> 00:03:48,080 you know, it feels like at least for me, someone 66 00:03:48,120 --> 00:03:51,080 who grew up here I knew, I'd you know, probably 67 00:03:51,080 --> 00:03:54,919 more than a dozen kids who you know, my cohort 68 00:03:54,960 --> 00:03:57,439 who went to Camp Mystic, people who have their kids there. 69 00:03:57,560 --> 00:04:02,759 Now it's like you can and it. It feels like 70 00:04:02,800 --> 00:04:05,759 a smaller state right now, and in the way that 71 00:04:05,800 --> 00:04:09,960 even I've never really experienced in a tragedy like this, 72 00:04:10,039 --> 00:04:12,280 where it just like everywhere you look you feel like 73 00:04:12,319 --> 00:04:15,199 you know or hear about someone you know who's been 74 00:04:15,199 --> 00:04:15,919 affected by this. 75 00:04:16,680 --> 00:04:17,319 Speaker 3: Absolutely. 76 00:04:17,360 --> 00:04:19,319 Speaker 4: I mean, I think part I mean to talk about, 77 00:04:19,319 --> 00:04:21,319 like the July fourth of it all, Like part of 78 00:04:21,319 --> 00:04:23,720 what has stuck with me from you know, being out 79 00:04:23,720 --> 00:04:25,560 there and going to these press conferences out there and stuff, 80 00:04:25,600 --> 00:04:27,839 is that we actually don't even know how many people 81 00:04:27,879 --> 00:04:30,639 are missing because so many people were visiting the area 82 00:04:30,720 --> 00:04:32,720 for the fourth of July. They were camping, they were 83 00:04:32,759 --> 00:04:37,399 staying in RVs. I mean, horrifyingly, the county they've set 84 00:04:37,439 --> 00:04:39,879 up a tip lined if you're missing someone you know, 85 00:04:39,920 --> 00:04:42,360 they're dealing with prank calls or dealing with scam calls. 86 00:04:42,399 --> 00:04:44,399 They're dealing with people who you know, don't know if 87 00:04:44,439 --> 00:04:45,480 their loved one was there. 88 00:04:45,600 --> 00:04:47,120 Speaker 3: It's like it's. 89 00:04:47,319 --> 00:04:51,399 Speaker 4: Hard to imagine for that area, like a busier weekend 90 00:04:51,560 --> 00:04:55,319 and a sort of more you know, a more difficult 91 00:04:55,319 --> 00:04:57,199 weekend to try to like get an accounting of who 92 00:04:57,240 --> 00:04:57,680 was there. 93 00:04:59,240 --> 00:05:02,160 Speaker 1: Yeah. I think, you know, we will continue to learn 94 00:05:02,199 --> 00:05:04,720 more about that, you know, in the days and weeks 95 00:05:04,720 --> 00:05:08,120 to come, for sure. Matt, I want to ask you, 96 00:05:08,920 --> 00:05:12,519 let's start just by talking about the storm, Like, what 97 00:05:13,319 --> 00:05:17,000 explain to us just the weather phenomenon that happened here? Yeah? 98 00:05:17,040 --> 00:05:19,480 What like yeah, really, like, how how did this happen? 99 00:05:19,639 --> 00:05:22,879 Just from a meteor meteorological perspective. 100 00:05:23,600 --> 00:05:26,560 Speaker 2: Yeah, it is a tough one to talk about. You know, 101 00:05:26,680 --> 00:05:29,800 it's interesting having gone through Harvey, even in Houston, and 102 00:05:30,040 --> 00:05:32,240 then seeing this, this is just a whole other level 103 00:05:32,279 --> 00:05:35,759 and it's it makes the scientific aspect of it just 104 00:05:36,120 --> 00:05:38,720 it's hard to dissociate, right, So, but we have to 105 00:05:38,879 --> 00:05:42,079 kind of talk about these things to understand why these 106 00:05:42,079 --> 00:05:46,439 things happen. So, you know, Central Texas is not immune 107 00:05:46,480 --> 00:05:49,199 to flooding. I mean, it's one of the most probe 108 00:05:49,199 --> 00:05:53,800 places in America. There's a long, long history and oftentimes 109 00:05:53,920 --> 00:05:56,519 what ends up happening is you get some sort of 110 00:05:56,639 --> 00:06:00,680 remnant of some tropical system that ends up wandering its 111 00:06:00,680 --> 00:06:04,240 way into Texas. And that's what happened in this particular 112 00:06:04,279 --> 00:06:06,600 case with the remnants of tropical storm Berry. I mean, 113 00:06:06,639 --> 00:06:09,800 Barry was a tropical storm for literally twelve hours. That is, 114 00:06:09,879 --> 00:06:13,079 it made landfall in Mexico the weekend before the fourth 115 00:06:13,120 --> 00:06:15,439 of July and just kind of took its time. He 116 00:06:15,560 --> 00:06:18,839 entered up through Mexico and ended up in Texas, you know, 117 00:06:19,319 --> 00:06:23,839 rate on Wednesday and into Thursday, and you had basically 118 00:06:24,000 --> 00:06:27,399 first you know, that tropical remnant ends up being sort 119 00:06:27,399 --> 00:06:31,240 of the focal point for allowing showers and thunderstorms to develop. 120 00:06:31,959 --> 00:06:33,959 You've got all this moisture coming in off the Gulf, 121 00:06:34,040 --> 00:06:38,600 so the atmosphere is completely saturated. You've got the terrain 122 00:06:38,879 --> 00:06:41,879 that contributes to all this. This is why flash flood 123 00:06:41,920 --> 00:06:46,519 Alley is called what it is because the Balcone's escarpment, 124 00:06:46,639 --> 00:06:49,480 it basically forces the air up. Right. You need to 125 00:06:49,480 --> 00:06:52,199 get to get thunderstorms, you need rising air. And what 126 00:06:52,240 --> 00:06:54,000 you're doing is is winds come out of the South. 127 00:06:54,000 --> 00:06:57,600 They're being forced up the terrain in hill country. And 128 00:06:57,759 --> 00:06:59,720 what it does is that adds a little bit more 129 00:07:00,240 --> 00:07:02,720 energy to the whole thing. And then on top of that, 130 00:07:02,759 --> 00:07:05,000 we had a couple of disturbances. We had I think 131 00:07:05,040 --> 00:07:09,959 what we call a mesoscale convectivete vorticy that was involved 132 00:07:10,000 --> 00:07:12,439 in all this as well, and those act to kind 133 00:07:12,480 --> 00:07:14,920 of further enhance the rainfall. And it was just kind 134 00:07:14,959 --> 00:07:20,120 of like a horribly perfect combination of meteorological elements to 135 00:07:20,240 --> 00:07:26,560 allow for heavy rainfall, and not over a tremendously wide area, 136 00:07:26,639 --> 00:07:29,519 but very localized. Right, That's what ends up happening in 137 00:07:29,560 --> 00:07:32,079 these situations. It's not it's not like a harvey where 138 00:07:32,160 --> 00:07:35,319 so many places get you know, inundated. This is more 139 00:07:35,360 --> 00:07:37,720 of a localized type phenomena where you know, you get 140 00:07:37,759 --> 00:07:41,519 these smaller pockets of really high rainfall amounts interspersed with 141 00:07:41,600 --> 00:07:44,319 something more manageable, like a one to four inch type rainfall, 142 00:07:45,399 --> 00:07:48,759 and those are just notoriously very difficult to forecast. 143 00:07:49,040 --> 00:07:50,639 Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, that was gonna be my next question, 144 00:07:50,800 --> 00:07:52,800 and we can get into the question of the National 145 00:07:52,839 --> 00:07:55,079 Weather Service here in a little bit before we talk 146 00:07:55,120 --> 00:07:57,959 about that. I just I wonder if you could help 147 00:07:58,000 --> 00:08:03,279 me understand whether this came as a surprise, right, Like 148 00:08:03,439 --> 00:08:06,160 I feel like just from my own experience, we knew 149 00:08:06,199 --> 00:08:07,920 it was probably going to rain on fourth of July. 150 00:08:08,120 --> 00:08:11,040 But at least I maybe I just wasn't paying enough attention, 151 00:08:11,199 --> 00:08:16,680 was not expecting this right even in Austin, you know, 152 00:08:17,199 --> 00:08:21,279 one hundred miles away or whatever. It rained basically constantly. 153 00:08:22,519 --> 00:08:27,120 Did we see this level of precipitation, this type of 154 00:08:27,199 --> 00:08:28,959 storm coming ahead of time? 155 00:08:30,240 --> 00:08:32,120 Speaker 2: So the answer is yes and no. We did know 156 00:08:32,159 --> 00:08:34,080 that it was going to rain over that time period. 157 00:08:34,360 --> 00:08:35,639 You know, if you go back and look at the 158 00:08:35,960 --> 00:08:39,120 forecast discussions and you look at the modeling in the 159 00:08:39,200 --> 00:08:40,919 days kind of leading up to the fourth of July, 160 00:08:40,960 --> 00:08:42,519 there was definitely a signal that there were going to 161 00:08:42,519 --> 00:08:45,440 be showers and thunderstorms. You know, initially it didn't look 162 00:08:45,519 --> 00:08:49,440 necessarily like anything abnormal, you know, what we typically would 163 00:08:49,480 --> 00:08:52,879 expect in Texas in summertime. As we got into Wednesday 164 00:08:52,879 --> 00:08:54,440 and Thursday and we got into what we call these 165 00:08:54,519 --> 00:08:57,480 higher resolution models. So you've got these global models that 166 00:08:57,519 --> 00:09:00,720 you always hear about, the American model, europe model, things 167 00:09:00,720 --> 00:09:03,240 like that. Those help us to kind of plan ahead 168 00:09:03,279 --> 00:09:04,600 of time. But then when you get kind of into 169 00:09:04,639 --> 00:09:07,320 the nitty gritty of a weather event, you start to 170 00:09:07,360 --> 00:09:10,960 transition to these higher resolution what we call convection allowing models. 171 00:09:10,960 --> 00:09:13,919 They can forecast thunderstorms, and so as we went into 172 00:09:13,960 --> 00:09:19,200 Wednesday night and Thursday, those models actually started to escalate 173 00:09:19,399 --> 00:09:21,879 the rainfall totals a little more. So you started to 174 00:09:21,879 --> 00:09:23,879 see maybe instead of you know, two to four inches 175 00:09:23,960 --> 00:09:25,480 or a little bit more, maybe you saw five or 176 00:09:25,519 --> 00:09:27,960 six inches in a morning run, and then by afternoon 177 00:09:28,039 --> 00:09:30,399 that was up to like six or ten inches, and 178 00:09:30,399 --> 00:09:32,159 then by evening that had escalated to like ten to 179 00:09:32,159 --> 00:09:34,720 fifteen inches. And it wasn't over a wide area again, 180 00:09:34,759 --> 00:09:37,399 it was just kind of an isolated spot. So the 181 00:09:37,759 --> 00:09:39,840 answer to the question is we didn't have a ton 182 00:09:39,879 --> 00:09:42,360 of lead time, but you had to be paying attention 183 00:09:42,399 --> 00:09:45,399 on Thursday to understand what was going on. And that's 184 00:09:45,440 --> 00:09:47,600 what we saw kind of the National Weather Service catching 185 00:09:47,679 --> 00:09:50,960 up with were these models. They started to expand flood watches, 186 00:09:51,000 --> 00:09:53,960 they started to escalate messaging, and we saw more and 187 00:09:53,960 --> 00:09:56,320 more of that throughout the day on Thursday and especially 188 00:09:56,399 --> 00:10:01,000 into the evening. You know, the challenge is with a 189 00:10:01,039 --> 00:10:03,600 system like this is that you have, like when it 190 00:10:03,639 --> 00:10:06,559 comes like a Harvey, you've got a very defined system, right, 191 00:10:06,600 --> 00:10:09,320 You've got you know, there's a remnant rate there. It's 192 00:10:09,320 --> 00:10:11,320 so well defined, it's going to dump rain over a 193 00:10:11,360 --> 00:10:15,120 large area. In these situations, you have a signal that says, 194 00:10:15,639 --> 00:10:18,279 everybody's gonna get rain. It's going to be heavy. We 195 00:10:18,320 --> 00:10:20,399 get heavy rain all the time in Texas, right, so 196 00:10:20,440 --> 00:10:22,879 you don't necessarily think much of it. But then as 197 00:10:22,879 --> 00:10:24,600 we got into Wednesday and Thursday and some of these 198 00:10:24,639 --> 00:10:27,200 higher resolution models started to up the ante a little bit, 199 00:10:27,480 --> 00:10:29,600 it started to be like, Okay, well, there's going to 200 00:10:29,639 --> 00:10:31,679 be heavy rain, but there might be some pockets that 201 00:10:31,759 --> 00:10:35,320 see some really heavy rain that you know, cause problems. 202 00:10:36,399 --> 00:10:39,600 But the problem is we're not The science is not 203 00:10:39,639 --> 00:10:43,159 there yet to tell you exactly where and exactly how 204 00:10:43,240 --> 00:10:46,320 much it's going to fall. And we got a long 205 00:10:46,360 --> 00:10:48,480 way to go before we get there as a field 206 00:10:48,519 --> 00:10:51,320 of science. And that's really where the challenge is is 207 00:10:51,440 --> 00:10:54,440 messaging that to people to say, like, over a you know, 208 00:10:54,440 --> 00:10:57,039 two hundred square mile area, there could be a pocket 209 00:10:57,080 --> 00:11:00,600 that sees ten to fifteen inches of rainfall. Is that 210 00:11:00,639 --> 00:11:04,240 a helpful forecast? I don't know, but at least we 211 00:11:04,399 --> 00:11:06,159 should hopefully get people paying attention. 212 00:11:08,240 --> 00:11:09,519 Speaker 4: I was just guys, like, how much of this is 213 00:11:09,559 --> 00:11:12,279 dependent on other factors, like the fact that we've been 214 00:11:12,279 --> 00:11:14,000 in a drought for so long. I mean, are there 215 00:11:14,039 --> 00:11:16,399 things going even going into this summer. Let's say you 216 00:11:16,440 --> 00:11:18,480 could have said, like if we did get a lot 217 00:11:18,519 --> 00:11:19,799 of rain, it's going to be really bad. 218 00:11:20,919 --> 00:11:24,840 Speaker 2: Yeah. The phrase that we say is droughts and in floods, right, 219 00:11:24,919 --> 00:11:27,159 and you know, there's been such a long term drought 220 00:11:27,200 --> 00:11:30,360 across Central Texas and West Texas, you know, and for 221 00:11:30,399 --> 00:11:32,480 parts of West tests It. You know, it kind of continues. 222 00:11:34,480 --> 00:11:37,559 It's it's never a given though, right, you know, we've 223 00:11:37,600 --> 00:11:41,200 been in drought for so long to continue going into 224 00:11:41,200 --> 00:11:43,240 the summer and into the fall and into next year 225 00:11:44,039 --> 00:11:47,120 for all we know, you know. So there's really not 226 00:11:47,240 --> 00:11:48,840 a whole lot that you can say, but I will 227 00:11:48,879 --> 00:11:51,960 say that I'm sure that the drier ground, you know, 228 00:11:52,080 --> 00:11:54,879 probably acted to speed up the runoff a little bit 229 00:11:55,639 --> 00:11:57,559 and and kind of force more of that water into 230 00:11:57,639 --> 00:12:00,639 the into the river with a little bit more speed, 231 00:12:00,679 --> 00:12:03,360 and that probably contributed to why it rose so quickly. 232 00:12:04,240 --> 00:12:08,159 Speaker 1: Just to add on to what Eleanor was asking, is 233 00:12:08,320 --> 00:12:12,080 how extraordinary of a weather event was this? I mean, 234 00:12:12,120 --> 00:12:14,840 we we all know, we've all heard about how this 235 00:12:14,919 --> 00:12:18,720 region is very prone to flooding. Is this a circumstance 236 00:12:18,759 --> 00:12:22,039 where something you know, once in a hundred or you know, 237 00:12:22,080 --> 00:12:25,679 whatever years happened, or is this a fairly you know, 238 00:12:25,720 --> 00:12:27,919 I mean, I know it's an extraordinary flood, but how 239 00:12:27,960 --> 00:12:29,080 extraordinary was it? 240 00:12:30,200 --> 00:12:32,840 Speaker 2: Yeah? In the grand scheme of things, it fits. It 241 00:12:32,840 --> 00:12:35,399 fits the climate, right, you know, you expect to see 242 00:12:35,399 --> 00:12:38,879 this sort of flood on these rivers, you know, every 243 00:12:39,000 --> 00:12:42,000 so often. You know, we talk about the return periods. 244 00:12:42,000 --> 00:12:44,080 It could be you know, one hundred years, five hundred years, 245 00:12:44,080 --> 00:12:46,480 one thousand years, whatever that is, you know, and that 246 00:12:46,720 --> 00:12:48,679 all that's doing is saying that in any given year, 247 00:12:48,759 --> 00:12:51,000 this is a percent chance that you have of seeing 248 00:12:51,559 --> 00:12:53,120 a flood of one hundred year flood of be you 249 00:12:53,200 --> 00:12:55,120 have a one percent chance in any given year of 250 00:12:55,159 --> 00:12:57,399 seeing that. So that doesn't mean that you're only going 251 00:12:57,440 --> 00:12:59,360 to get one every one hundred years. You could get 252 00:12:59,399 --> 00:13:02,679 five in a row. Right, It's just it becomes kind 253 00:13:02,679 --> 00:13:05,559 of the law of averages at that point. But I 254 00:13:05,600 --> 00:13:08,600 mean that, you know, I've read a book called Flash 255 00:13:08,600 --> 00:13:11,080 Floods in Texas and it basically summarizes a lot of 256 00:13:11,080 --> 00:13:14,360 the historical floods that have occurred across the state, but 257 00:13:14,440 --> 00:13:17,039 in particular in hill country in central Texas. So there's 258 00:13:17,240 --> 00:13:19,879 there's a long, long history of it there. I think 259 00:13:20,000 --> 00:13:24,320 what probably makes this well, what makes this a little 260 00:13:24,360 --> 00:13:26,759 unique obviously as the human toll, right, I mean, there's 261 00:13:26,799 --> 00:13:29,000 just no kind of getting around that that that this 262 00:13:29,200 --> 00:13:32,240 was just an extraordinary event from that magnitude. You don't 263 00:13:32,279 --> 00:13:35,000 expect this to be happening in twenty twenty five. You know, 264 00:13:35,039 --> 00:13:37,919 we've got a lot of good forecasting at this point. 265 00:13:37,960 --> 00:13:40,320 Nothing really you know, a lot of things don't surprise 266 00:13:40,559 --> 00:13:42,639 us like they used to one hundred hundred and fifty 267 00:13:42,679 --> 00:13:46,919 years ago. But you know, obviously we still do have 268 00:13:47,159 --> 00:13:50,360 issues with forecasting. So you know, the human toll about 269 00:13:50,720 --> 00:13:53,960 was was certainly a you know, a unique factor of 270 00:13:54,000 --> 00:13:57,080 all this, but you know, it fits the bill. But 271 00:13:57,120 --> 00:13:59,960 it was also worse than what I think is tipic. 272 00:14:00,240 --> 00:14:04,879 This is definitely a you know, at top tier flood 273 00:14:05,120 --> 00:14:07,600 historically for Texas, just in and of itself, if you 274 00:14:07,639 --> 00:14:10,120 even take the human toll out of it. You know, 275 00:14:10,159 --> 00:14:13,159 we set some flooding records on parts of the rivers there. 276 00:14:14,080 --> 00:14:16,039 You know, it was also a multi day flood, you know, 277 00:14:16,080 --> 00:14:18,399 obviously getting less attention with some of the other flooding, 278 00:14:18,480 --> 00:14:21,399 some of the other flooding that occurred elsewhere in Central Texas, 279 00:14:21,399 --> 00:14:24,000 so you know, the subsequent day and things like that. 280 00:14:24,120 --> 00:14:27,639 So overall, this was a pretty high end rainfall event, 281 00:14:27,720 --> 00:14:30,240 one that we really haven't seen in a while in 282 00:14:30,279 --> 00:14:32,080 this part of this part of the state. 283 00:14:32,840 --> 00:14:35,639 Speaker 1: So let's let's go into the National Weather Service question. 284 00:14:35,759 --> 00:14:40,440 Of course, you mentioned the forecast sort of evolved over time. 285 00:14:40,919 --> 00:14:43,519 It was a hard thing to predict. There were a 286 00:14:43,519 --> 00:14:47,639 lot of questions immediately after this happened about whether the 287 00:14:47,679 --> 00:14:50,320 budget cuts that the National Weather Service face had an 288 00:14:50,320 --> 00:14:53,360 impact on this. We got some data on the on 289 00:14:54,000 --> 00:14:58,200 the Saturday after the flooding, basically saying that in San 290 00:14:58,200 --> 00:15:01,399 Angelo there were four vacant in that office out of 291 00:15:01,440 --> 00:15:04,679 twenty three positions. San Antonio had six vacancies out of 292 00:15:04,679 --> 00:15:09,840 twenty six. But the people in and who used to 293 00:15:09,879 --> 00:15:11,879 work at the National Weather Service seemed to suggest that 294 00:15:11,879 --> 00:15:14,000 that was enough to do what they needed to do. 295 00:15:14,080 --> 00:15:17,519 That day, you wrote on the eyewall, we have seen 296 00:15:17,559 --> 00:15:21,159 absolutely nothing to suggest current staffing or budget issues within 297 00:15:21,399 --> 00:15:25,159 NAA and the NWS played any role at all in 298 00:15:25,200 --> 00:15:29,039 this event. Tell us a little bit about what led 299 00:15:29,080 --> 00:15:30,080 you to that conclusion. 300 00:15:31,039 --> 00:15:32,799 Speaker 2: Yeah, there were a couple of things. Number One, I 301 00:15:32,799 --> 00:15:35,120 think if you look back at the timeliness of the 302 00:15:35,159 --> 00:15:39,200 warnings that were issued by the forecast Office, particularly in 303 00:15:39,240 --> 00:15:45,519 San Antonio, it was within what I would have expected 304 00:15:45,519 --> 00:15:47,320 to see for a flooding about of this magnitude they 305 00:15:47,320 --> 00:15:51,200 were issued. He had discussions that were issued throughout the 306 00:15:51,240 --> 00:15:54,440 evening from the Weather Prediction Center in Washington, d C. 307 00:15:55,360 --> 00:15:59,360 That had talked about escalating rainfall risk and the potential 308 00:15:59,399 --> 00:16:03,279 for very high in totals. You know, basically the playbook 309 00:16:03,320 --> 00:16:07,120 played out what we've seen historically from from National Weather 310 00:16:07,159 --> 00:16:11,279 Service offices and these sorts of events, you know, and 311 00:16:11,320 --> 00:16:14,480 then looking at the staffing levels, you know, as you noted, 312 00:16:15,480 --> 00:16:19,120 it's not that abnormal. You know, certainly there's there's a 313 00:16:19,120 --> 00:16:22,080 few vacant positions, but there's always been a few vacant positions. 314 00:16:22,080 --> 00:16:24,480 If you come down the road to a place like Houston, 315 00:16:24,480 --> 00:16:26,759 that certainly made the news lately, you know that office 316 00:16:26,799 --> 00:16:30,480 has a number of additional vacancies relative to the San 317 00:16:30,559 --> 00:16:33,200 Antonio and San Angelo offices, so compared to some of 318 00:16:33,200 --> 00:16:37,120 the other local offices across the agency, they were actually 319 00:16:37,159 --> 00:16:40,799 pretty well off all things considered in terms of staffing, 320 00:16:40,879 --> 00:16:43,559 and they did bring in extra staffing as they would 321 00:16:43,600 --> 00:16:46,039 for for a higher end weather event ahead of time. 322 00:16:46,120 --> 00:16:49,480 So to me, it sounds everything sounds as if they 323 00:16:49,519 --> 00:16:53,879 were equipped with adequate numbers of people, The warnings were timely, 324 00:16:54,559 --> 00:16:57,120 whether they were received or not as a whole their discussion, 325 00:16:58,240 --> 00:17:01,240 but when they produced them, from the meteorological side of 326 00:17:01,279 --> 00:17:04,920 things and from the procedural side of things, based on 327 00:17:04,920 --> 00:17:06,920 what I know from the National Weather Service and knowing 328 00:17:06,920 --> 00:17:09,480 a lot of people that work at these various different offices, 329 00:17:09,519 --> 00:17:16,000 from there, it seemed totally normal, which is I think 330 00:17:16,079 --> 00:17:18,440 a frustrating answer for a lot of people, but I 331 00:17:18,480 --> 00:17:21,119 think it's the reality of it all, and I think 332 00:17:21,119 --> 00:17:22,680 we just have to kind of be honest about that 333 00:17:22,720 --> 00:17:23,480 in this situation. 334 00:17:23,799 --> 00:17:27,799 Speaker 1: Yeah, our story on Saturday had the timeline of the alerts, 335 00:17:27,839 --> 00:17:29,200 and I'm just going to run through it really quickly 336 00:17:29,200 --> 00:17:31,599 because I think it is fairly instructive for a few 337 00:17:31,599 --> 00:17:34,720 different reasons. So, there was a floodwatch issued on Wednesday 338 00:17:35,039 --> 00:17:39,680 at one eighteen pm. At one fourteen am Thursday, so 339 00:17:39,720 --> 00:17:42,480 about twelve hours later, that was upgraded to a warning. 340 00:17:43,240 --> 00:17:47,680 There was a flash flooding emergency issue, which I understand 341 00:17:47,720 --> 00:17:50,440 is sort of like the highest level of emergency warning 342 00:17:50,680 --> 00:17:54,920 at four h three am on Thursday morning, the river, 343 00:17:55,119 --> 00:17:59,240 according to the gauges, really started to rise at around 344 00:17:59,240 --> 00:18:03,839 five am. At five am it was one point eight 345 00:18:04,279 --> 00:18:08,000 feet deep. By six am it was twenty feet. By 346 00:18:08,000 --> 00:18:11,000 six forty five it was up to thirty four point 347 00:18:11,039 --> 00:18:13,960 twenty nine feet. So you're talking about just a massive 348 00:18:14,079 --> 00:18:16,759 rise in a very short period of time. Twenty feet 349 00:18:16,839 --> 00:18:18,480 by the way, I believe it's like sort of the 350 00:18:18,519 --> 00:18:22,240 flood stage major flood. So yeah, major flood stage, and 351 00:18:22,279 --> 00:18:26,400 so a very fast increase. But you know from the 352 00:18:26,440 --> 00:18:30,400 emergency warning to that major flood stage you're talking about 353 00:18:30,480 --> 00:18:33,119 like you know, over an hour, maybe even in the 354 00:18:33,240 --> 00:18:34,880 two hour range, right. 355 00:18:34,920 --> 00:18:36,839 Speaker 4: I mean I think also, and I've seen a lot 356 00:18:36,839 --> 00:18:38,319 of discussion about this, and I think it's like. 357 00:18:40,000 --> 00:18:41,920 Speaker 3: It's it's not partisan, it's not political. 358 00:18:41,960 --> 00:18:45,160 Speaker 4: It's a piece of this that's like these warnings are 359 00:18:45,200 --> 00:18:47,440 often very hard to They're not written in plain language, 360 00:18:47,480 --> 00:18:49,640 they're hard to understand, They're hard to know, like what's 361 00:18:49,680 --> 00:18:53,000 the one we are supposed to activate on even here 362 00:18:53,000 --> 00:18:56,880 in Austin, like on Saturday, so after like we're hearing 363 00:18:56,880 --> 00:18:59,759 this horror, you know, like the horrible flooding that. 364 00:18:59,720 --> 00:19:00,400 Speaker 3: Has had happened. 365 00:19:00,559 --> 00:19:03,400 Speaker 4: We were getting these alerts, and it was like, how 366 00:19:03,720 --> 00:19:04,720 seriously do we have to take that? 367 00:19:04,839 --> 00:19:04,960 Speaker 1: Right? 368 00:19:05,039 --> 00:19:06,680 Speaker 3: Is this really like get off the road. 369 00:19:07,000 --> 00:19:09,759 Speaker 4: But then when I was in Kerrville, they started sitting 370 00:19:09,759 --> 00:19:11,920 out there was a point on Sunday evening where the 371 00:19:11,960 --> 00:19:14,440 water the rains, the rain came back and they were 372 00:19:14,480 --> 00:19:16,279 preparing for the water to rise again, and they sent 373 00:19:16,359 --> 00:19:19,279 like a very very plain language alert that was like 374 00:19:19,680 --> 00:19:23,359 flooding expected, get to high ground now. And I was 375 00:19:23,440 --> 00:19:25,240 so I'm curious to see going forward from this, like 376 00:19:25,640 --> 00:19:29,880 is are we going to see more plain language arguably 377 00:19:29,920 --> 00:19:31,799 more useful push alerts? 378 00:19:31,960 --> 00:19:34,759 Speaker 1: Yeah? I mean, and then the other obvious thing about here, 379 00:19:34,920 --> 00:19:36,079 you know you talk about that, and I think it's 380 00:19:36,079 --> 00:19:38,000 a really good point, right the I think there might 381 00:19:38,039 --> 00:19:40,920 be a little bit of a like alert fatigueta two. 382 00:19:41,319 --> 00:19:42,960 Speaker 3: Since alerts, we've all. 383 00:19:42,799 --> 00:19:45,160 Speaker 1: Been in that situation where at like three am in 384 00:19:45,200 --> 00:19:47,200 the morning, our phone goes off and we like look 385 00:19:47,240 --> 00:19:50,079 and it's like an amber alert and Amarillo like eight 386 00:19:50,160 --> 00:19:52,480 hundred miles away or whatever, and it's like I can't 387 00:19:52,480 --> 00:19:53,319 believe you, like go. 388 00:19:53,240 --> 00:19:55,720 Speaker 4: To my window and look for a white Chevy or whatever, 389 00:19:55,799 --> 00:19:56,559 like that's not right. 390 00:19:56,640 --> 00:19:57,519 Speaker 3: It's new sense. 391 00:19:57,359 --> 00:20:00,920 Speaker 1: Alerts and and in a dai that I think there 392 00:20:00,920 --> 00:20:03,240 are a lot of people, again, like we said, who 393 00:20:03,720 --> 00:20:06,559 were not from that area and might not be as 394 00:20:06,640 --> 00:20:09,519 familiar of like what flooding means in that area and 395 00:20:09,559 --> 00:20:12,200 what to do when the time comes. And also it 396 00:20:12,240 --> 00:20:14,000 was the middle of the night and people might have 397 00:20:14,039 --> 00:20:16,519 been asleep, and I think all those things sort of 398 00:20:16,559 --> 00:20:20,599 come together to create a problem. I think the question 399 00:20:20,880 --> 00:20:23,920 is particularly around the summer camps or some of these 400 00:20:23,960 --> 00:20:27,440 areas where you know, you know, the thing that kind 401 00:20:27,440 --> 00:20:31,759 of sticks with me, that has I kind of keep 402 00:20:31,799 --> 00:20:35,599 going back to is the county Judge Paul Kerr saying 403 00:20:36,240 --> 00:20:39,200 on Saturday morning, this is the most dangerous river valley 404 00:20:39,200 --> 00:20:42,200 in the United States. We get these floods all the time, right. 405 00:20:42,880 --> 00:20:44,799 I think the question that a lot of people are 406 00:20:44,799 --> 00:20:48,079 asking is like, if we get these floods all the time, 407 00:20:48,200 --> 00:20:51,440 if we know that this danger is there, it's not 408 00:20:51,480 --> 00:20:55,200 the National Weather Services job to evacuate people, right, It's 409 00:20:55,319 --> 00:20:58,559 the National Weather Services job to give people the information 410 00:20:58,640 --> 00:21:03,640 they need. Why weren't the systems in place to keep 411 00:21:03,759 --> 00:21:10,400 people safe from this, you know, somewhat inevitable type of emergency? 412 00:21:10,759 --> 00:21:10,920 Speaker 3: Right? 413 00:21:10,920 --> 00:21:13,079 Speaker 4: And we talk a lot about and correctly, there's a 414 00:21:13,119 --> 00:21:15,519 lot of talk right now about sirens and warning systems 415 00:21:15,559 --> 00:21:17,119 and all that, but it's also not the National Weather 416 00:21:17,160 --> 00:21:19,559 Service job to say, like don't build so close to 417 00:21:19,599 --> 00:21:19,920 the river. 418 00:21:20,079 --> 00:21:22,079 Speaker 3: Don't you know? Like where should where? Should you have 419 00:21:22,160 --> 00:21:22,720 these limits? 420 00:21:22,759 --> 00:21:25,200 Speaker 4: Like I'm not a scientist, I don't know, but it 421 00:21:25,240 --> 00:21:26,599 does raise all these questions. 422 00:21:27,000 --> 00:21:27,160 Speaker 3: Matt. 423 00:21:27,160 --> 00:21:31,759 Speaker 4: I'm curious from your perspective, where you see the let's 424 00:21:31,759 --> 00:21:35,799 say room, where you see the room for change from 425 00:21:35,880 --> 00:21:37,759 all of this, what do you think the pivot point 426 00:21:37,759 --> 00:21:38,200 should be. 427 00:21:39,039 --> 00:21:40,680 Speaker 2: Yeah, this is an opportunity to talk about a lot 428 00:21:40,720 --> 00:21:42,599 of different things. So, first of all, from the National 429 00:21:42,640 --> 00:21:45,119 Weather Service side of things, I think that the warnings 430 00:21:45,160 --> 00:21:47,160 do need to be improved in terms of the language 431 00:21:47,160 --> 00:21:50,359 that is used. Right there's a standard format. It's been 432 00:21:50,400 --> 00:21:54,240 improved over the years, but it's not perfect. Obviously. One 433 00:21:54,279 --> 00:21:56,359 of the interesting things is the National Weather Services, an 434 00:21:56,400 --> 00:21:58,839 agency in the last you know, ten to fifteen years, 435 00:21:58,839 --> 00:22:02,119 has an invested hea in doing a lot of social 436 00:22:02,119 --> 00:22:05,240 science research and bringing in social scientists to help them 437 00:22:05,720 --> 00:22:09,720 craft messaging that is more useful to end users. It's 438 00:22:09,720 --> 00:22:11,640 something that they recognized. I think a lot of This 439 00:22:11,759 --> 00:22:15,400 came in the wake of you know, Hurricane Katrina, Hurricane Sandy, 440 00:22:15,559 --> 00:22:20,240 the twenty eleven tornado outbreak in the Southeast. All these 441 00:22:20,279 --> 00:22:24,160 things kind of led to a real watershed moment and like, 442 00:22:24,200 --> 00:22:27,359 how can we do this better? What are we missing? 443 00:22:28,279 --> 00:22:30,359 And so they've invested heavily in that. They're doing a 444 00:22:30,400 --> 00:22:31,759 lot of work and there's a lot of research on 445 00:22:31,799 --> 00:22:34,400 the pipeline on that as well, which kind of I 446 00:22:34,440 --> 00:22:37,039 think we could pivot into a conversation about proposed budget 447 00:22:37,039 --> 00:22:38,960 cuts and things like that, but you know, I'll save 448 00:22:39,000 --> 00:22:42,400 that for now. That that's definitely a topic of concern, 449 00:22:43,319 --> 00:22:46,799 but it's important. You know, we always say as meteorologists 450 00:22:46,839 --> 00:22:50,440 that no forecast has any value whatsoever unless you give 451 00:22:50,519 --> 00:22:54,000 that value to an end user. So no warning has 452 00:22:54,000 --> 00:22:56,359 any value unless the person receiving it knows what to 453 00:22:56,400 --> 00:22:59,279 do about it. I do think that, you know, living 454 00:22:59,279 --> 00:23:01,200 in Texas, we do deal with flash flooding a lot. 455 00:23:01,240 --> 00:23:03,079 We get a lot of flash flood warnings every year, 456 00:23:03,200 --> 00:23:05,920 you know, we here in Houston. Happens all the time 457 00:23:07,279 --> 00:23:09,160 because we get a lot of street flooding, we get 458 00:23:09,160 --> 00:23:12,160 a lot of nuisance floodings. Flooding that says, hey, you know, 459 00:23:12,240 --> 00:23:14,160 maybe don't go out, Maybe don't go to your doctor's 460 00:23:14,200 --> 00:23:16,880 appointment right now and reschedule it or or something like that. 461 00:23:16,920 --> 00:23:19,640 Don't go to the grocery store. So I think the 462 00:23:19,720 --> 00:23:21,759 question that maybe we need to ask ourselves is do 463 00:23:21,839 --> 00:23:25,519 we need to kind of raise that threshold a little 464 00:23:25,519 --> 00:23:27,079 bit to say, like, Okay, if you're going to issue 465 00:23:27,079 --> 00:23:29,880 a flash flood warning, maybe we do it when it's 466 00:23:29,880 --> 00:23:32,119 something a little more significant. I think the flash flood 467 00:23:32,119 --> 00:23:35,279 emergency is the right way to go. Clearly that was 468 00:23:35,279 --> 00:23:38,319 issued in a very timely manner, but clearly that didn't 469 00:23:38,359 --> 00:23:41,920 necessarily matter. You know. I know as a meteorologists, when 470 00:23:41,920 --> 00:23:45,079 a flash flood emergency is issued for any location, that's 471 00:23:45,079 --> 00:23:48,000 a big deal. They don't issue those lightly. Those are 472 00:23:48,039 --> 00:23:51,240 not handed out like candy. You know. Flash flood warning, 473 00:23:51,279 --> 00:23:54,559 severe thunderstorm warnings, even to some extent tornado warnings, there's 474 00:23:54,559 --> 00:23:57,480 a little bit of more pad that's built into them 475 00:23:57,559 --> 00:23:59,839 to be like, okay, well maybe this could you know, 476 00:24:00,119 --> 00:24:02,359 do something. You know, and there's there's definitely a little 477 00:24:02,400 --> 00:24:03,880 bit of a false alarm rate, but when you get 478 00:24:03,880 --> 00:24:08,559 to the emergency level that there's no questioning that whatsoever. 479 00:24:08,720 --> 00:24:11,440 That's a big deal, and those are only reserved for 480 00:24:11,480 --> 00:24:14,640 the highest end cases. So I guess the questions I 481 00:24:14,680 --> 00:24:18,960 would ask, are you know, do end users know that? 482 00:24:19,240 --> 00:24:22,240 You know? Obviously does the public know that? I don't 483 00:24:22,279 --> 00:24:24,160 know that the public does. But at the same time 484 00:24:24,200 --> 00:24:27,640 as the public's responsibility to know that is that more 485 00:24:27,680 --> 00:24:30,200 on the emergency managers in the location. But then you 486 00:24:30,240 --> 00:24:32,759 have a location that's a little more rural and doesn't 487 00:24:32,759 --> 00:24:35,519 necessarily have the resources that you know, a Houston or 488 00:24:35,519 --> 00:24:38,640 an Austin or a Dallas has, you know, can they 489 00:24:38,680 --> 00:24:40,400 do that? You know, the National Weather Service does a 490 00:24:40,400 --> 00:24:43,559 ton of outreach and a ton of work with emergency managers, 491 00:24:43,599 --> 00:24:45,680 but you know, is it enough? Do we need to 492 00:24:45,680 --> 00:24:48,359 be doing more? So I think there are all reasonable 493 00:24:48,480 --> 00:24:49,920 questions to ask kind of in the wake of this, 494 00:24:50,000 --> 00:24:54,759 and there's obviously room for improvement. But ultimately, in the end, 495 00:24:56,079 --> 00:24:59,440 it's it's a horrific tragedy that you know, hit in 496 00:24:59,480 --> 00:25:02,279 the middle of night. Like you said, the top the 497 00:25:02,319 --> 00:25:05,319 worst possible time. I mean, this is like the worst 498 00:25:05,440 --> 00:25:09,519 nightmare for any forecast or seeing something like this, obviously, 499 00:25:09,640 --> 00:25:12,759 you know, impacting families, It's the worst possible nightmare you 500 00:25:12,759 --> 00:25:15,400 can think of. So you know, I think there's an 501 00:25:15,400 --> 00:25:17,519 element of that that's at play here too. It's just, 502 00:25:18,400 --> 00:25:21,240 you know, some of it is unavoidable, but some of 503 00:25:21,279 --> 00:25:23,599 it certainly is avoidable. And I think that that that's 504 00:25:23,759 --> 00:25:25,200 a conversation that needs to happen. 505 00:25:25,480 --> 00:25:27,839 Speaker 1: Yeah, I've been thinking a lot about the Oregon coast. 506 00:25:28,000 --> 00:25:30,720 My wife has family up there. We go and we 507 00:25:30,799 --> 00:25:34,000 visit Seaside, Oregon, and there it is well known up 508 00:25:34,039 --> 00:25:36,240 there that there is a fault line, you know, out 509 00:25:36,240 --> 00:25:38,880 in the ocean where there is going to be a 510 00:25:38,880 --> 00:25:42,519 major earthquake sometime in the next hundred years, and that 511 00:25:42,559 --> 00:25:45,559 major earthquake is going to create a tsunami that is 512 00:25:45,599 --> 00:25:50,200 going to wash over Seaside Oregon, and it's extremely dangerous. 513 00:25:50,200 --> 00:25:52,240 There's a New Yorker article that you should read about it. 514 00:25:52,240 --> 00:25:57,119 It's terrifying crazy. But if you go, if you visit Seaside, 515 00:25:57,119 --> 00:26:01,400 Oregon or any of the towns along the coast, every airbnb, 516 00:26:01,680 --> 00:26:05,680 every hotel, there's a posting on the door that says, 517 00:26:06,160 --> 00:26:08,880 this is going to happen, and this is what you 518 00:26:09,000 --> 00:26:11,880 need to do when it does happen. Here's the evacuation 519 00:26:12,039 --> 00:26:14,759 route to get to higher ground. Here's where there's like 520 00:26:14,880 --> 00:26:17,400 food stored on this hill and like all these different 521 00:26:17,400 --> 00:26:20,839 types of things, right, and like I'm thinking about like again, 522 00:26:20,920 --> 00:26:23,599 like all these people on the Guadaloupe who are from 523 00:26:23,759 --> 00:26:26,039 Dallas and Houston and might not even have heard the 524 00:26:26,160 --> 00:26:30,240 term flash flood alley, you know, if they had, if 525 00:26:30,240 --> 00:26:32,640 there had been some kind of requirement, some kind of 526 00:26:32,680 --> 00:26:37,519 like posting there's signs everywhere in this rural Oregon town 527 00:26:37,559 --> 00:26:40,920 of like evacuation route, et cetera, et cetera, like it 528 00:26:41,039 --> 00:26:45,039 might have helped people understand what to what to kind 529 00:26:45,039 --> 00:26:47,640 of make of these alerts and these warnings and not 530 00:26:47,799 --> 00:26:50,000 just kind of wonder like should I get in my car? 531 00:26:50,079 --> 00:26:51,359 Is it safe to get in my car? Like all 532 00:26:51,400 --> 00:26:52,480 those different types of things. 533 00:26:52,559 --> 00:26:54,319 Speaker 4: I think like this is a big part of it 534 00:26:54,359 --> 00:26:56,319 is just like you know, I think a lot of 535 00:26:56,319 --> 00:26:58,119 people were there not knowing s flash flood alley. They 536 00:26:58,160 --> 00:27:00,519 come in from Houston, where they get a flash flood alert. 537 00:27:00,279 --> 00:27:00,799 Speaker 3: All the time. 538 00:27:00,920 --> 00:27:03,720 Speaker 4: Meaning some part of this giant county is like maybe 539 00:27:03,759 --> 00:27:07,000 gonna get you know that that has poor drainage is 540 00:27:07,039 --> 00:27:10,599 gonna you know, deal with flooded out overpasses. Like I'm 541 00:27:10,640 --> 00:27:12,759 one of those, Like I mean, people keep saying like, 542 00:27:12,799 --> 00:27:14,640 I can't believe people don't know what these alerts mean. 543 00:27:15,000 --> 00:27:16,960 I don't know which one is tornado watch, which one's 544 00:27:16,960 --> 00:27:17,720 tornado warning. 545 00:27:17,880 --> 00:27:22,359 Speaker 3: I just like, uh, assume either way. I'm sort of cooked. 546 00:27:22,440 --> 00:27:26,119 But like this is I think there's maybe on the. 547 00:27:26,079 --> 00:27:30,680 Speaker 4: Part of you know, the experts writ large, whoever, you know, 548 00:27:30,839 --> 00:27:32,960 even like the people who are creating these alerts, people 549 00:27:32,960 --> 00:27:36,640 who are results for implementing this, like a little bit 550 00:27:36,640 --> 00:27:38,599 of a lack of awareness about like how much people 551 00:27:38,680 --> 00:27:42,440 don't know and certainly like what they're sort of walking into. 552 00:27:42,839 --> 00:27:45,119 Speaker 1: And yeah, and then I think like you would hope 553 00:27:45,119 --> 00:27:49,039 that there would be an awareness of the most vulnerable areas, right, 554 00:27:49,240 --> 00:27:54,839 like like a summer camp where you know the it's 555 00:27:54,880 --> 00:27:58,599 going to take a herculean effort at any point to 556 00:27:59,079 --> 00:28:02,119 evacuate that whole group, right, And like what kind of 557 00:28:02,160 --> 00:28:04,400 plans and things are you going to have in motion 558 00:28:05,119 --> 00:28:08,119 when a place like that is endangered? And I think 559 00:28:08,200 --> 00:28:10,920 we're still trying to get some answers from folks about 560 00:28:10,960 --> 00:28:14,720 what exactly, if anything was done, but a lot of 561 00:28:14,759 --> 00:28:17,319 the answers from the local officials so far have been 562 00:28:17,359 --> 00:28:21,640 sort of like, you know, that's not what we do 563 00:28:22,079 --> 00:28:24,319 or used to do. And I think there's going to 564 00:28:24,359 --> 00:28:26,640 be a lot of questions about whether that needs to change. 565 00:28:26,880 --> 00:28:28,480 Speaker 4: Right if you think about the last time there was 566 00:28:28,519 --> 00:28:30,759 a flood of this, I mean not even of this scale, 567 00:28:30,759 --> 00:28:32,960 but a flood like this was nineteen eighty seven, Like 568 00:28:33,319 --> 00:28:34,279 most people were not. 569 00:28:35,880 --> 00:28:37,920 Speaker 3: You know, many people were not alive. 570 00:28:37,960 --> 00:28:38,039 Speaker 2: Then. 571 00:28:38,079 --> 00:28:39,799 Speaker 4: I shouldn't say most, feel many people were not alive 572 00:28:39,839 --> 00:28:41,480 then they were not, like you know, sort of maybe 573 00:28:41,559 --> 00:28:43,799 aware of this. They're not making plans based on like 574 00:28:44,160 --> 00:28:47,359 the memory of that, and for what it's worth in 575 00:28:47,400 --> 00:28:50,319 this situation, like a big takeaway from nineteen eighty seven 576 00:28:50,359 --> 00:28:52,400 flood was that the people who died were those who 577 00:28:52,400 --> 00:28:55,640 were on buses evacuating. And so it's sort of a 578 00:28:56,200 --> 00:28:59,720 you know, I understand the paralysis you might face of 579 00:28:59,799 --> 00:29:03,440 do we evacuate or do we stay put? Of Like 580 00:29:04,359 --> 00:29:07,440 that's a really really difficult decision. A lot of questions now, 581 00:29:07,480 --> 00:29:09,720 I mean, obviously still about how early they knew, should 582 00:29:09,799 --> 00:29:10,960 are there things they could done earlier? 583 00:29:11,000 --> 00:29:13,319 Speaker 3: Of course, but Matt, you know. 584 00:29:13,559 --> 00:29:15,680 Speaker 2: Go ahead, Yeah, I was just gonna say, I mean, 585 00:29:15,720 --> 00:29:18,480 think about also how many people have moved to Texas 586 00:29:18,480 --> 00:29:20,839 in recent years, and particularly in Austin area, in the 587 00:29:20,880 --> 00:29:23,519 San Antonio area, in the Houston area, they don't They 588 00:29:23,519 --> 00:29:26,240 don't necessarily know anything about hurricanes. They don't know anything 589 00:29:26,279 --> 00:29:28,359 about flash flooding. They may have moved from a dry 590 00:29:28,359 --> 00:29:32,039 part of the country to come to Texas, and so 591 00:29:32,079 --> 00:29:34,599 there's there's there's a learning curve in the state that 592 00:29:35,000 --> 00:29:38,000 you know. I don't know that anybody when you move 593 00:29:38,079 --> 00:29:41,000 to Texas. There's no welcome guide waiting for you to explain. 594 00:29:41,119 --> 00:29:44,599 These are your risks, this is your concern. I'll never forget. 595 00:29:44,640 --> 00:29:48,119 I was attending a talk from Jim Blackburn down at 596 00:29:48,200 --> 00:29:51,160 Rice University, and and he was saying how once upon 597 00:29:51,240 --> 00:29:54,720 a time they had wanted to put markers up near 598 00:29:54,759 --> 00:29:57,880 the near the Bay in the Houston area to show 599 00:29:57,880 --> 00:30:00,920 how high the water could get during a storm sturge 600 00:30:00,960 --> 00:30:05,000 during a certain category level storm. But a lot of 601 00:30:05,559 --> 00:30:08,160 real estate folks and development folks didn't really like that 602 00:30:08,200 --> 00:30:10,599 because you see that and you're like, oh, that's not good, 603 00:30:11,400 --> 00:30:13,519 and so they stopped doing it. Right, So I think 604 00:30:13,920 --> 00:30:16,039 there really needs to be we got to be honest 605 00:30:16,079 --> 00:30:19,720 with ourselves after this about where we live. Fine, that 606 00:30:19,759 --> 00:30:22,359 we live somewhere that is extremely vulnerable, but we have 607 00:30:22,440 --> 00:30:25,119 to be honest about the risks and understanding those risks, 608 00:30:25,519 --> 00:30:28,400 and really, you know, as Texans, particularly those that have 609 00:30:28,440 --> 00:30:31,880 been here for a while, helping newcomers to understand those 610 00:30:31,960 --> 00:30:32,599 risks as well. 611 00:30:33,079 --> 00:30:34,680 Speaker 4: Right, I mean I just briefly, like when I was 612 00:30:34,680 --> 00:30:36,880 in Kirk County, Like I first of all, to your 613 00:30:36,880 --> 00:30:39,759 point about people moving here. Our editors were like, ask 614 00:30:39,839 --> 00:30:42,200 people what they remember the nineteen eighty seven flood, and 615 00:30:42,240 --> 00:30:44,599 I didn't meet one person who lived in Kirk County 616 00:30:44,680 --> 00:30:46,920 during the nineteen eighty seven flood. But also when I 617 00:30:46,960 --> 00:30:50,039 was leaving, you know, it was the rain had stopped it, 618 00:30:50,079 --> 00:30:53,000 the flood waters had receded, but I missed a turn 619 00:30:53,039 --> 00:30:56,160 onto the highway leaving the county or leaving Kerville, and 620 00:30:56,640 --> 00:30:59,319 Google Map just automatically rerouted me on like a real 621 00:30:59,400 --> 00:31:02,240 back road that was through all these counties that had 622 00:31:02,240 --> 00:31:02,880 gotten flooded. 623 00:31:02,920 --> 00:31:04,720 Speaker 3: And then no point was like also. 624 00:31:04,519 --> 00:31:06,279 Speaker 4: By the way, like these are low roads, you're going 625 00:31:06,319 --> 00:31:07,680 to be driving through it, like there was nowhere to 626 00:31:07,680 --> 00:31:10,559 turn around. I was kind of like if I had 627 00:31:10,640 --> 00:31:12,720 had to evacuate Kirk County in a hurry and I 628 00:31:12,720 --> 00:31:14,839 missed the one turn onto the highway that I needed 629 00:31:14,839 --> 00:31:16,960 to be on I would have been driving directly into 630 00:31:17,839 --> 00:31:20,319 you know, into a disaster. And so I think we're 631 00:31:20,480 --> 00:31:22,240 we leave a lot to the individual to sort of 632 00:31:22,279 --> 00:31:23,839 figure out. And I mean, I don't know what a 633 00:31:23,920 --> 00:31:27,000 scaled solution to that looks like, but it's just a reality. 634 00:31:27,440 --> 00:31:30,359 Speaker 1: Yeah, And I mean I think there is a big 635 00:31:30,480 --> 00:31:34,119 question that state and local leaders and I you know, 636 00:31:34,200 --> 00:31:36,720 national leaders as well, are going to need to face about, 637 00:31:36,759 --> 00:31:39,359 like what kind of investment do we have in our 638 00:31:39,480 --> 00:31:43,039 emergency management resources. I think one thing that's like slightly 639 00:31:43,119 --> 00:31:46,160 frustrating to me is we in the media and just 640 00:31:46,160 --> 00:31:49,200 as society as a whole, we all sort of something 641 00:31:49,319 --> 00:31:51,839 terrible happens and we talk about like what they should 642 00:31:51,839 --> 00:31:55,200 have known about that terrible thing, and like why invests 643 00:31:55,200 --> 00:31:57,400 in all that? And then the next terrible thing happens 644 00:31:57,440 --> 00:31:59,720 and we haven't talked at all about that one. You know, 645 00:32:01,079 --> 00:32:04,519 what kind of effort, you know, in a state where 646 00:32:04,519 --> 00:32:06,880 there's been a lot of extra money lately, there's an 647 00:32:06,880 --> 00:32:10,119 awareness that climate change might be making these things worse. 648 00:32:11,000 --> 00:32:12,720 What kind of investment do we need to make as 649 00:32:12,759 --> 00:32:16,039 a state to really look at individual communities and what 650 00:32:16,079 --> 00:32:20,559 their risks are in order to prevent You know, bad 651 00:32:20,599 --> 00:32:23,359 things are going to happen, but how can we minimize 652 00:32:23,680 --> 00:32:26,519 the damage of those bad things to the extent that's 653 00:32:26,559 --> 00:32:27,400 that's reasonable? 654 00:32:27,960 --> 00:32:28,200 Speaker 3: Right. 655 00:32:28,640 --> 00:32:30,319 Speaker 1: One thing I would ask you, Matt, is that you 656 00:32:30,359 --> 00:32:33,960 know this Governor Abbot has indicated that this will be 657 00:32:34,119 --> 00:32:36,680 something that they will talk about during the special session 658 00:32:36,920 --> 00:32:41,920 on starting July twenty first, there's been some conversation in 659 00:32:41,960 --> 00:32:44,960 the Senate about, you know, investing some money in sirens 660 00:32:45,079 --> 00:32:49,119 in rural areas that are prone to flooding. What would 661 00:32:49,240 --> 00:32:52,880 you tell the legislature to invest in and think about 662 00:32:52,920 --> 00:32:53,839 in this moment. 663 00:32:54,880 --> 00:32:57,680 Speaker 2: I think that there's always after a disaster, there is 664 00:32:57,960 --> 00:33:02,359 a a tendency or a desire that we have to 665 00:33:02,359 --> 00:33:04,880 do something. We have to do something, and we have 666 00:33:04,920 --> 00:33:07,119 to show that we're doing something. And that's that right. 667 00:33:07,880 --> 00:33:10,799 It's not always the best solution. It's it's kind of like, hey, 668 00:33:10,839 --> 00:33:13,279 we look, we did something. After the fact, we can 669 00:33:13,400 --> 00:33:15,039 pat ourselves on the back that you know, hey, we 670 00:33:15,559 --> 00:33:19,279 did something. I think that this is a discussion that 671 00:33:19,480 --> 00:33:23,079 is nuanced. Everything is nuanced, right. We we live in 672 00:33:23,079 --> 00:33:26,839 a society and in a time of society where nuanced 673 00:33:26,839 --> 00:33:29,039 doesn't necessarily get the time of day that it should. 674 00:33:29,559 --> 00:33:32,160 But this is a very nuanced discussion that has to 675 00:33:32,200 --> 00:33:35,880 happen because every part of Texas is different. The needs 676 00:33:35,880 --> 00:33:38,200 in Houston are far different than the needs in Krek County, 677 00:33:38,279 --> 00:33:41,160 than the needs of the Panhandle, you know, and on 678 00:33:41,240 --> 00:33:46,640 and on. So I think it's important for the legislature 679 00:33:46,680 --> 00:33:49,480 to act, but to do so deliberately, and if that 680 00:33:49,559 --> 00:33:53,400 takes a little extra time, I think that's okay. And 681 00:33:53,839 --> 00:33:56,680 you know, I think that you know, just based on 682 00:33:57,480 --> 00:34:00,279 how you know, we interact with people, just ourselves as 683 00:34:00,359 --> 00:34:03,920 meteorologists and forecasters. What one thing that people really like 684 00:34:03,960 --> 00:34:06,079 about the way we do is we talk to them 685 00:34:06,559 --> 00:34:09,480 very plainly, like we're not trying to pretend like we're 686 00:34:09,840 --> 00:34:12,519 above them, like we're one of them, right, And I 687 00:34:12,559 --> 00:34:15,400 think that too often when you get into these political issues, 688 00:34:15,440 --> 00:34:18,519 like a lot of times this ends up being it 689 00:34:18,599 --> 00:34:20,280 just ends up being a political issue and it goes 690 00:34:20,280 --> 00:34:22,320 through the political process, and to some extent, yeah, that 691 00:34:22,360 --> 00:34:25,199 has to happen. But at the same time, I think 692 00:34:25,880 --> 00:34:29,840 that more people in the state would be appreciative if 693 00:34:29,840 --> 00:34:31,920 this is a well thought out plan, so we're not 694 00:34:32,079 --> 00:34:34,440 just throwing resources of the problem to say, we're throwing 695 00:34:34,480 --> 00:34:36,920 resources the problem, right. I know there was the build 696 00:34:36,960 --> 00:34:40,519 that was proposed in the main session that was talking about, 697 00:34:40,639 --> 00:34:44,320 you know, upgrades to emergency management, emergency communication and things 698 00:34:44,360 --> 00:34:47,760 like that. I think it was the representative from Canadian 699 00:34:47,800 --> 00:34:49,920 that had proposed that in the wake of the smoke 700 00:34:50,000 --> 00:34:53,960 house fire out there. And these are great ideas. We 701 00:34:54,079 --> 00:34:56,360 just need to make sure that they work for the 702 00:34:56,480 --> 00:34:58,440 people that live in these places and the people that 703 00:34:58,559 --> 00:35:01,000 visit these places, right, And that requires a lot of 704 00:35:01,000 --> 00:35:03,800 community input, and I think it requires really a united 705 00:35:03,880 --> 00:35:07,639 effort at the state, local, and federal level to some extent. 706 00:35:07,719 --> 00:35:11,559 You know. However, that's possible now to do that, to 707 00:35:11,599 --> 00:35:14,039 implement that, and to come forth with a solution that 708 00:35:14,239 --> 00:35:20,199 is vetted and works, because there's no one answer to 709 00:35:20,239 --> 00:35:22,559 this problem. It's not like you install sirens. If you 710 00:35:22,559 --> 00:35:25,519 would installed sirens five years ago, there's no guarantee that 711 00:35:25,519 --> 00:35:28,199 you wouldn't have had a catastrophic death hole this time. 712 00:35:28,440 --> 00:35:30,239 It probably would have lowered it, It probably would have 713 00:35:30,239 --> 00:35:32,880 helped a lot, but it may not be the magic 714 00:35:32,880 --> 00:35:35,760 bullet that everyone's looking for. Right, So we really do 715 00:35:35,840 --> 00:35:38,159 need to think about these things in a depth that 716 00:35:38,360 --> 00:35:40,360 sometimes the political process doesn't have. 717 00:35:40,280 --> 00:35:43,199 Speaker 1: Time for I have a question which you might not 718 00:35:43,320 --> 00:35:45,599 know the answer to, and so if you don't apologize, 719 00:35:45,679 --> 00:35:52,360 But we talk about this idea that the Hill country, 720 00:35:52,400 --> 00:35:54,840 this area is the most dangerous area for flash flanding 721 00:35:54,880 --> 00:35:58,119 in the country. How much of that is because of 722 00:35:58,159 --> 00:36:01,880 the specific terrain and way there, and how much of 723 00:36:01,920 --> 00:36:05,559 it is is it due to other factors? Right? Like 724 00:36:05,679 --> 00:36:07,559 I think about like the fact that you know, in 725 00:36:07,800 --> 00:36:11,159 unincorporated areas of Texas you can build wherever you want to, 726 00:36:11,320 --> 00:36:14,400 and and some of those things like is Texas Is 727 00:36:14,440 --> 00:36:21,519 this part of Texas uniquely situated geographically to be prone 728 00:36:21,559 --> 00:36:24,360 to flash floods or is there something else going on 729 00:36:24,599 --> 00:36:27,400 that's making it more dangerous for for people? 730 00:36:28,000 --> 00:36:32,079 Speaker 2: No, it is. It is a geographic and geological and 731 00:36:32,159 --> 00:36:35,480 meteorological combination of factors. That's that's why the term flash 732 00:36:35,519 --> 00:36:37,400 flown alley has been around for a long time. It's 733 00:36:37,440 --> 00:36:39,880 it's you know, you just it is hits in a 734 00:36:39,920 --> 00:36:42,920 spot that is uniquely situated to kind of have the 735 00:36:43,480 --> 00:36:50,039 wrong combination of elements come together in very relatively frequent, 736 00:36:50,559 --> 00:36:53,280 you know, time periods. It happens a lot over history. It's, 737 00:36:53,320 --> 00:36:54,880 you know, not something that's going to happen every year, 738 00:36:54,920 --> 00:36:58,000 but every few years you're going to have something that 739 00:36:58,000 --> 00:37:01,360 that that happens there. And the thing that kind of 740 00:37:01,920 --> 00:37:04,840 unnerves me a little bit is, you know, that's not changing, 741 00:37:05,000 --> 00:37:07,159 and if anything, as we talk about with climate change, 742 00:37:07,159 --> 00:37:09,039 you know, the rate, the rate of the rain that 743 00:37:09,079 --> 00:37:12,000 falls is going to increase more. Right. We saw rainfall 744 00:37:12,119 --> 00:37:16,280 rates during these storms of like five or six inches 745 00:37:16,320 --> 00:37:19,679 an hour. That's what we had during Harvey and Houston. 746 00:37:19,920 --> 00:37:23,760 So I mean, you know, this was just an incredible 747 00:37:24,000 --> 00:37:27,000 rainfall event. And what unnerves me is that we've got 748 00:37:27,079 --> 00:37:29,800 a lot of people moving to this place. So not 749 00:37:29,840 --> 00:37:33,639 only was the risk already there and people already vulnerable, 750 00:37:33,800 --> 00:37:36,679 now a whole lot more people are vulnerable. And a 751 00:37:36,719 --> 00:37:40,159 lot of what we've done in terms of infrastructure and 752 00:37:40,159 --> 00:37:43,119 building is based on what the world was like in 753 00:37:43,159 --> 00:37:47,000 the nineteen fifties to the nineteen eighties, right, and in 754 00:37:47,159 --> 00:37:50,519 the same world that it was then today by any 755 00:37:50,519 --> 00:37:54,519 stretch of the imagination. So I think that going back 756 00:37:54,559 --> 00:37:56,719 to the whole idea of being nuanced about what we 757 00:37:56,800 --> 00:37:59,039 need to do, I think that plays a big role 758 00:37:59,079 --> 00:38:01,159 in it, because so much has changed, and I think 759 00:38:01,199 --> 00:38:04,000 that there's there's a backlog of things that probably need 760 00:38:04,039 --> 00:38:05,599 to be addressed. I don't know what those are, but 761 00:38:07,000 --> 00:38:10,159 it's a lot. It's a big, big issue, and you know, 762 00:38:10,280 --> 00:38:13,159 I see it as it's an insurance policy on ourselves. 763 00:38:13,480 --> 00:38:15,880 That's really what we're talking about here, and to keep 764 00:38:16,119 --> 00:38:18,960 Texas thriving and moving forward, you need to invest in 765 00:38:18,960 --> 00:38:19,960 that insurance policy. 766 00:38:20,920 --> 00:38:23,199 Speaker 1: Yeah, it just feels like in the coastal areas you 767 00:38:23,360 --> 00:38:26,880 have this sort of whole infrastructure set up to be 768 00:38:26,960 --> 00:38:31,559 prepared for hurricanes, and it doesn't prevent everything bad that 769 00:38:31,559 --> 00:38:34,760 could come from a hurricane, but it feels like maybe 770 00:38:34,760 --> 00:38:37,440 there's a conversation we need to have in this region 771 00:38:37,519 --> 00:38:41,320 about building up a similar type of infrastructure around floods 772 00:38:41,400 --> 00:38:41,840 as well. 773 00:38:41,920 --> 00:38:43,880 Speaker 4: It does seem like these floods and like for an 774 00:38:43,880 --> 00:38:46,280 area called flash flood Alley, like you know, like you said, 775 00:38:46,280 --> 00:38:49,920 like we've built up like evacuation routes and infrastructure on 776 00:38:49,960 --> 00:38:52,760 the coast a little bit more for hurricanes in tornado 777 00:38:52,800 --> 00:38:54,719 prone areas, we have tornado sirens. 778 00:38:54,760 --> 00:38:54,920 Speaker 1: You know. 779 00:38:55,039 --> 00:38:55,599 Speaker 3: I think. 780 00:38:57,039 --> 00:38:59,719 Speaker 4: This hopefully, you know what will spark a conversation about 781 00:38:59,760 --> 00:39:03,079 like what what can be different to your point, Matt, like, 782 00:39:03,239 --> 00:39:05,320 is it do we rush in and do something and 783 00:39:05,480 --> 00:39:08,679 solve this little problem and install sirens, and then you know, 784 00:39:08,800 --> 00:39:10,880 it turns out the you know, we sort of missed 785 00:39:10,880 --> 00:39:14,719 that the bigger point, the bigger issue that I wouldn't 786 00:39:14,719 --> 00:39:17,360 accuse the text legislature of doing that, but you know, 787 00:39:17,519 --> 00:39:19,800 it is a thing a legislative body could do in 788 00:39:19,840 --> 00:39:22,719 the you know, excitement of trying to do something. 789 00:39:23,400 --> 00:39:25,639 Speaker 2: And really it's just human nature, right. It's human nature 790 00:39:25,679 --> 00:39:27,960 to number one, want to blame something or someone, right, 791 00:39:28,000 --> 00:39:30,400 and it's number two to come up with a solution 792 00:39:30,440 --> 00:39:31,840 to say, hey, we did something so we can pat 793 00:39:31,840 --> 00:39:34,400 ourselves on the back and feel good that we addressed 794 00:39:34,440 --> 00:39:38,239 whatever the issue was that that happened in the first place. 795 00:39:38,320 --> 00:39:40,519 So that's why I you know, I really do think 796 00:39:40,599 --> 00:39:43,519 I really hope that this is a conversation that is 797 00:39:43,639 --> 00:39:46,679 very bipartisan in nature, because it should be. This affects 798 00:39:46,719 --> 00:39:50,440 all Texans, blue, red, and purple, and you know, I 799 00:39:50,480 --> 00:39:54,679 think that it's just it's an opportunity for Texas to 800 00:39:54,760 --> 00:39:57,559 show itself off as a leader in Hey, look, we 801 00:39:57,639 --> 00:40:01,199 had something horrible happen. We understand our risks. Now we're 802 00:40:01,199 --> 00:40:03,840 working to address them and make our state even stronger 803 00:40:03,880 --> 00:40:04,760 than it was before. 804 00:40:05,639 --> 00:40:09,239 Speaker 1: Well, our hearts go out to everyone affected. It's just 805 00:40:09,320 --> 00:40:12,400 a terrible thing that's happened in our state. 806 00:40:13,440 --> 00:40:13,599 Speaker 3: You know. 807 00:40:13,800 --> 00:40:18,679 Speaker 1: Encourage folks listening. If you want to contribute, google the 808 00:40:18,719 --> 00:40:21,400 Community Foundation of the Texas Hill Country. They have a 809 00:40:21,440 --> 00:40:24,880 complicated website, so I think googling that Google again is 810 00:40:25,239 --> 00:40:27,880 the best way to find the flood relief fun Community 811 00:40:27,920 --> 00:40:31,239 Foundation of the Texas Hill Country. Hopefully we don't go 812 00:40:31,639 --> 00:40:35,480 through anything like this for a long time. Matt, thank 813 00:40:35,480 --> 00:40:38,880 you so much for taking the time to walk us through. 814 00:40:38,920 --> 00:40:41,960 This has been very enlightening. Thank you to our producers, 815 00:40:42,280 --> 00:40:45,079 Rob and Chris. We will talk to you all next week.