1
00:00:12,880 --> 00:01:56,519
Speaker 1: In Conte Dick.

2
00:02:06,719 --> 00:02:09,840
Speaker 2: All Right, welcome back, ladies and gentlemen. This is David

3
00:02:09,879 --> 00:02:12,960
Patrick Carey with Church of the Eternal Logos, and I

4
00:02:13,000 --> 00:02:16,599
am joined by Jay Dyer today to finish our Part

5
00:02:16,680 --> 00:02:21,120
two of Deconstructing My Christianity. We did part one over

6
00:02:21,199 --> 00:02:23,960
on his channel. It was about two weeks ago where

7
00:02:23,960 --> 00:02:29,639
we really sort of deconstructed deconstructionism and talked really philosophically

8
00:02:29,719 --> 00:02:32,280
about why it's a problem and how it has its

9
00:02:32,319 --> 00:02:36,840
own paradomatic shortcomings. And today's going to be addressing the

10
00:02:37,039 --> 00:02:41,439
entire phenomenon of deconstructing My Christianity, which I was not

11
00:02:41,520 --> 00:02:44,719
aware until Ac really pointed this out, and Jay has

12
00:02:44,800 --> 00:02:47,039
been aware of it and seeing it online of all

13
00:02:47,039 --> 00:02:50,840
these people deconstructing their faith and bringing up really low tier,

14
00:02:52,319 --> 00:02:55,759
kind of old arguments that think think are dismissing the

15
00:02:55,879 --> 00:03:00,120
messianic status of Christ, the Holy Trinity and stuff like that. Well,

16
00:03:00,759 --> 00:03:02,560
we're going to kind of be going through some of

17
00:03:02,599 --> 00:03:05,000
their really their stronger arguments, so we're going to kind

18
00:03:05,000 --> 00:03:06,919
of steal man them at the beginning, and then we're

19
00:03:06,960 --> 00:03:09,919
going to get into and watch a few tiktoks and

20
00:03:10,039 --> 00:03:12,759
some of these major figures online and have a few laughs.

21
00:03:12,759 --> 00:03:18,479
So that's kind of the plan for today. So, Jay,

22
00:03:18,719 --> 00:03:20,159
do you have anything you want to say before we

23
00:03:20,199 --> 00:03:23,759
start getting into the topic and discussing the points by points.

24
00:03:25,159 --> 00:03:29,639
Speaker 3: Well, one of the difficulties in this domain is that

25
00:03:30,599 --> 00:03:33,199
when it comes to something like I say, the doctrine

26
00:03:33,240 --> 00:03:35,719
the Trinity, or you know, the deed of Christ and

27
00:03:35,759 --> 00:03:39,360
the New or Old Testament, you know, the relationship of

28
00:03:39,960 --> 00:03:44,759
Yahweh to his embodiment as the scholars speak, like, the

29
00:03:45,319 --> 00:03:48,960
difficulty is that you don't settle these issues by this

30
00:03:49,080 --> 00:03:51,960
verse over here or that verse over here. Right, there's

31
00:03:52,000 --> 00:03:55,680
so many verses throughout the text that it's really difficult

32
00:03:55,840 --> 00:03:59,319
to do justice to the topic if you don't know

33
00:03:59,439 --> 00:04:01,840
or if you don't look at all the texts that cover,

34
00:04:01,960 --> 00:04:04,759
for example, say the presence of the Holy Spirit in

35
00:04:04,800 --> 00:04:06,719
the Old Testament. Right. So I've got a list of

36
00:04:06,800 --> 00:04:11,039
I don't know, maybe I don't know how many references

37
00:04:11,159 --> 00:04:15,439
it is, maybe thirty, and that doesn't necessarily mean that

38
00:04:15,479 --> 00:04:16,839
it's all of them, but just the ones that I've

39
00:04:16,839 --> 00:04:20,879
got listed here, say thirty references just to the person

40
00:04:21,160 --> 00:04:24,079
and role of the Holy Spirit in the Old Testament. Right,

41
00:04:24,560 --> 00:04:26,160
So we're obviously not gonna have some time to go

42
00:04:26,199 --> 00:04:29,160
through all of those, but it's an example of you know,

43
00:04:29,160 --> 00:04:31,639
if you were going to demonstrate the Trinity or the

44
00:04:31,680 --> 00:04:35,800
day to Christ or his relationship to God's people throughout

45
00:04:35,800 --> 00:04:37,279
the Old Testament, you would need to go through all

46
00:04:37,319 --> 00:04:39,360
the texts. But what happens in a lot of the

47
00:04:41,279 --> 00:04:44,160
domain I guess what we call higher critical scholarship is

48
00:04:44,199 --> 00:04:48,839
like it gets really narrow and focused on what does

49
00:04:48,879 --> 00:04:52,360
the Hebrews say in Isaiah seven and does that exclude

50
00:04:52,399 --> 00:04:55,879
the possibility of, you know, the virgin birth because it's

51
00:04:55,879 --> 00:04:59,040
only talking about Isaiah and his a situation going on

52
00:04:59,120 --> 00:05:02,680
his day when immediately, as you would see in the

53
00:05:02,720 --> 00:05:06,639
Isaiah seven passage, well, that's gonna how you interpret this

54
00:05:06,720 --> 00:05:08,600
is going to be dependent on whether or not Jesus

55
00:05:08,639 --> 00:05:11,120
is the Messiah, right, In other words, you're not going

56
00:05:11,199 --> 00:05:13,439
to see a double sense to that to where well,

57
00:05:13,480 --> 00:05:16,399
there is something going on in Isaiah's day and a

58
00:05:16,480 --> 00:05:20,199
double fulfillment and foreshadowing up a future fulfillment in the

59
00:05:20,279 --> 00:05:24,000
day of the Messiah when the MESSI comes. So there's

60
00:05:24,000 --> 00:05:27,360
really no way to like go to this or that

61
00:05:27,560 --> 00:05:29,560
verse to solve any of these issues. As all I'm

62
00:05:29,560 --> 00:05:32,439
trying to say is that they're holistic, so you have

63
00:05:32,519 --> 00:05:35,079
to really be familiar with the entirety of the Bible,

64
00:05:35,600 --> 00:05:39,920
which most people aren't. And the dangerous part of like

65
00:05:39,959 --> 00:05:45,319
the academic unbelief is that they go to sections of

66
00:05:45,360 --> 00:05:48,759
the text with the presupposition of unbelief. So for them,

67
00:05:49,360 --> 00:05:52,199
this is not an inspired text. It's a human creation

68
00:05:52,360 --> 00:05:55,319
of a bunch of cobble together stories from various different traditions.

69
00:05:55,600 --> 00:05:59,879
This is known as the documentary hypothesis JEPD these different schools.

70
00:06:00,120 --> 00:06:03,040
It was invented by the character at Julius Belhausen. But

71
00:06:03,079 --> 00:06:04,639
one thing I would know before we get into all

72
00:06:04,680 --> 00:06:10,399
this is that Julius Wellhausen had an admitted agenda according

73
00:06:10,480 --> 00:06:14,800
to himself, that he wanted to destroy all ideas of

74
00:06:15,199 --> 00:06:20,639
ritualism and judaic imagery and symbology from the religion, which

75
00:06:20,639 --> 00:06:24,879
he thought could be purified as this later generation of

76
00:06:24,959 --> 00:06:29,720
liberal Lutheran. So there's a liberal anti quote ceremony position

77
00:06:30,560 --> 00:06:34,839
that Julius Wellhausen wanted to do, wanted to prove and demonstrate.

78
00:06:35,399 --> 00:06:39,839
So he's an activist, and his activism was against the

79
00:06:39,879 --> 00:06:45,040
idea that God would ever institute rituals and ceremonies, and

80
00:06:45,120 --> 00:06:48,839
he's again in the tradition of who had already instituted

81
00:06:48,839 --> 00:06:52,399
this revolution, Luther, Luther wants to scale down. Now, Luther

82
00:06:52,519 --> 00:06:56,959
wasn't as extreme as Bellhausen, but Bellhausen again as an activist.

83
00:06:56,959 --> 00:06:59,560
So you have to understand that all the academia that

84
00:06:59,600 --> 00:07:02,560
pretends to be in purports to be neutral and says

85
00:07:02,600 --> 00:07:05,399
that they don't have an agenda is just not true.

86
00:07:05,480 --> 00:07:07,800
And that's what you and I saw the last time

87
00:07:08,040 --> 00:07:11,040
when we did this deconstruction analysis. We pointed out that

88
00:07:11,079 --> 00:07:13,480
wait a minute, they don't actually seem very neutral. They

89
00:07:13,480 --> 00:07:16,560
actually seem anti theistic, and they seem to have an

90
00:07:16,560 --> 00:07:22,079
agenda to deconstruct the text, supposedly because they're neutral, but no,

91
00:07:22,120 --> 00:07:26,959
they actually have a presupposition that their deconstructionism is neutral, right,

92
00:07:27,439 --> 00:07:31,639
even though they're saying that everybody has an agenda, right constructionists.

93
00:07:31,720 --> 00:07:36,160
So again, the textual higher critics are not neutral, even

94
00:07:36,199 --> 00:07:39,839
though they claim that textual higher criticism is a neutral science.

95
00:07:40,439 --> 00:07:42,680
So they just have the presuppositions of all the Enlightenment

96
00:07:42,720 --> 00:07:47,360
people for the most part of neutrality that nothing is

97
00:07:47,399 --> 00:07:49,920
theory laden that they can just approach it with a

98
00:07:49,920 --> 00:07:54,240
pure objective science to prove or disprove what parts of

99
00:07:54,240 --> 00:07:57,480
the Bible are authentic. We have a totally different presupposition

100
00:07:57,639 --> 00:08:00,839
as believers and as members of the church to Orthodox Church,

101
00:08:01,279 --> 00:08:04,639
because we approach the text with the presubposition that it

102
00:08:04,720 --> 00:08:08,680
is inspired, that it is coherent, it's cohesive, and there's

103
00:08:08,720 --> 00:08:13,759
a totality message that is not cobbled together pieces of gibberish.

104
00:08:13,920 --> 00:08:17,240
So we have totally different presuppositions. And you're going to

105
00:08:17,360 --> 00:08:20,920
notice that they will read all of these tacts with

106
00:08:21,079 --> 00:08:24,600
the assumption of discontinuity, whereas we read the text with

107
00:08:24,600 --> 00:08:27,040
the assumption of continuity. But how do we know which

108
00:08:27,079 --> 00:08:32,360
one's right right? Textual science cannot tell you that well.

109
00:08:32,360 --> 00:08:36,159
Speaker 2: And to your point about how they quote mind scripture

110
00:08:36,559 --> 00:08:38,679
and try to what they perceive to be is bringing

111
00:08:38,759 --> 00:08:42,679
out objective points which undermine the Christian faith. We highlight

112
00:08:42,759 --> 00:08:45,559
in the first dream the irony of that because constructionism

113
00:08:45,600 --> 00:08:50,480
itself is a relativistic worldview and is totally centered on

114
00:08:50,519 --> 00:08:53,799
the subjective reader. That it does away with the authoritative

115
00:08:53,799 --> 00:08:57,240
attenth of the person behind any written text, let alone scripture,

116
00:08:57,240 --> 00:09:01,799
but even a book you read Shakespeare or C. S. Lewis.

117
00:09:02,200 --> 00:09:05,759
Deconstructionism does not is not interested in what the intentions

118
00:09:05,799 --> 00:09:08,240
of the author is. It's interested in how the reader

119
00:09:08,360 --> 00:09:12,039
from the subjective standpoint can deconstruct that and find meaning

120
00:09:12,080 --> 00:09:16,159
from themselves. And so it's, as we highlighted before, it

121
00:09:16,600 --> 00:09:21,799
is about well, it fails to address historical contexts, which is,

122
00:09:21,799 --> 00:09:24,080
we have believers when we're reading scripture. We're reading this

123
00:09:24,120 --> 00:09:28,120
as a as a coherent, cohesive system of revelation that

124
00:09:28,360 --> 00:09:31,240
is unfolding throughout space and time according to the people

125
00:09:31,320 --> 00:09:33,480
that the message is being revealed to and how they

126
00:09:33,480 --> 00:09:38,440
could understand it. And so not that many of the TikTokers,

127
00:09:38,480 --> 00:09:41,639
I mean, maybe Dan McClellan, he's he's the one that

128
00:09:41,919 --> 00:09:44,000
makes sure to tell you in every single video that

129
00:09:44,039 --> 00:09:47,080
he's a scholar of the Bible. But outside of him,

130
00:09:47,200 --> 00:09:50,039
many of these people really don't even have an academic training,

131
00:09:50,200 --> 00:09:53,759
and they present the term deconstruction as some type of fancy,

132
00:09:53,879 --> 00:09:58,600
magical word that's that somehow undermines any sort of literal

133
00:09:58,639 --> 00:10:04,960
interpretation or traditional in Christianity. So from the onset deconstructionism,

134
00:10:05,000 --> 00:10:08,440
it's so funny because if you're constantly utilizing that, at

135
00:10:08,519 --> 00:10:12,240
least in the philosophical academic sense. It's not interested in

136
00:10:12,320 --> 00:10:16,360
objective truth. It's not interested in actually providing objective facts

137
00:10:16,399 --> 00:10:20,120
to come to a more coherent understanding of truth. It's

138
00:10:20,159 --> 00:10:25,120
just about subjective deconstruction. And as we highlighted deconstructionism, one

139
00:10:25,120 --> 00:10:28,639
of the big academic critiques is that it's not constructive.

140
00:10:29,080 --> 00:10:33,200
Deconstructionism is really just about destroying anything that is analyzing

141
00:10:33,240 --> 00:10:36,879
and taking a part into pieces and then just kind

142
00:10:36,919 --> 00:10:38,679
of leaving it there and walking away.

143
00:10:39,360 --> 00:10:43,559
Speaker 3: Yeah, exactly. Yeah.

144
00:10:43,679 --> 00:10:43,879
Speaker 2: Yeah.

145
00:10:44,240 --> 00:10:48,360
Speaker 3: I'm looking forward, of course to the Theophanes discussion, because that's,

146
00:10:48,799 --> 00:10:50,639
you know, an area that I've really focused on a

147
00:10:50,639 --> 00:10:53,840
whole lot in the last four years, particularly because obviously

148
00:10:53,919 --> 00:10:57,279
the Muslim debates, it didn't actually start with that. I

149
00:10:57,679 --> 00:11:01,840
got deeper and deeper into the Theophanes topic because in

150
00:11:01,879 --> 00:11:06,399
the last i would say eight years, particularly getting back

151
00:11:06,399 --> 00:11:12,200
into Orthodoxy, it really got me thinking about the continuity

152
00:11:12,240 --> 00:11:13,840
between the Old Testaments. So I would just say that

153
00:11:13,879 --> 00:11:16,840
in the last maybe even ten years, continuity between the

154
00:11:16,879 --> 00:11:19,440
Old and Testament old New Testament has been a real

155
00:11:19,559 --> 00:11:22,159
focus of mine, just as a kind of a side hobby,

156
00:11:22,600 --> 00:11:25,159
and I would say in in the last eight years,

157
00:11:25,159 --> 00:11:28,879
I've read through the Old Testament multiple times. So and

158
00:11:28,919 --> 00:11:30,679
I do that on purpose because I really want to

159
00:11:30,720 --> 00:11:34,799
know it really well. Originally because I was debating Arians

160
00:11:35,200 --> 00:11:37,519
several years ago and that's kind of what prompted this,

161
00:11:37,600 --> 00:11:41,200
and then that shifted into the Muslim debates, and so

162
00:11:41,240 --> 00:11:43,480
maybe in the future will shift into more debates with Jews,

163
00:11:43,519 --> 00:11:45,480
because it's going to be more and more relevant, I think,

164
00:11:45,519 --> 00:11:49,679
to interacting with the Jewish ideas of the rabbinic ideas

165
00:11:49,679 --> 00:11:52,840
of denying why you know, Christ fulfills the prophecies. So

166
00:11:53,240 --> 00:11:55,440
I'm just pointing out again that this is an area

167
00:11:55,480 --> 00:12:00,240
that has really been a focus of mine, maybe for

168
00:12:00,240 --> 00:12:02,120
the last decade. So and I don't claim to be

169
00:12:02,159 --> 00:12:05,480
an expert, but we did just do, for example, a

170
00:12:05,519 --> 00:12:10,679
three hour or more talk for my members throughout just

171
00:12:10,720 --> 00:12:13,879
the Torah. So we went through every Theophany or Trinity

172
00:12:13,960 --> 00:12:16,240
reference in the Torah. And that's a I mean there's

173
00:12:16,240 --> 00:12:18,320
a there was enough that it took three hours. Wow,

174
00:12:18,360 --> 00:12:21,000
So you know we're not talking about something that's like

175
00:12:21,759 --> 00:12:24,799
I remember when I was Protestant, or maybe even when

176
00:12:24,840 --> 00:12:28,639
I was getting into Catholicism, I remember thinking Jesus in

177
00:12:28,679 --> 00:12:30,559
the Old Testament. Yeah, there might be a few of

178
00:12:30,559 --> 00:12:37,080
those right now, there's actually like tons of references to Yahweh,

179
00:12:37,720 --> 00:12:41,399
his angel messenger and the Spirit, and so obviously we're

180
00:12:41,399 --> 00:12:44,600
not going to go through all those. But I noticed

181
00:12:44,600 --> 00:12:47,679
that some of the critiques that that Ac mentioned from

182
00:12:47,720 --> 00:12:53,200
these these people is like, what McClelland has. I guess

183
00:12:53,200 --> 00:12:55,799
this is an argument or an article of his something

184
00:12:55,840 --> 00:12:59,240
about you know, how do we account for this messenger

185
00:12:59,360 --> 00:13:02,600
of Yahween Old Testament? And it's like, oh, well, we

186
00:13:02,919 --> 00:13:06,440
first really kind of see this in Exodus. No, you

187
00:13:06,559 --> 00:13:09,679
actually first see this very clearly in Genesis in fact,

188
00:13:10,159 --> 00:13:12,600
and this is going to get into issues that go

189
00:13:12,720 --> 00:13:16,919
beyond text, like if you have the septuagent, for example,

190
00:13:17,200 --> 00:13:20,279
in Genesis three, the septuagent reads, in terms of the

191
00:13:20,279 --> 00:13:25,799
English translation, then they heard the voice of the Lord walking,

192
00:13:27,519 --> 00:13:31,000
How is the logos walking if he's not already in

193
00:13:31,039 --> 00:13:36,960
some way? If they alphanic manifestation so and presumably yes,

194
00:13:37,000 --> 00:13:38,919
it says they heard it. But for Adam to be

195
00:13:39,000 --> 00:13:42,320
made in the image of God, we would say as Orthodox.

196
00:13:42,360 --> 00:13:46,720
If you read Paniotis Nellys's book Deification in Christ, the

197
00:13:46,759 --> 00:13:48,960
whole first chapter is about how Adam has made the

198
00:13:48,960 --> 00:13:52,720
image of Christ. Right, So that would mean Adam saw

199
00:13:52,799 --> 00:13:57,440
Christ and knew him directly in the garden. It's and

200
00:13:57,799 --> 00:13:59,720
in so many people's minds when you don't have the

201
00:13:59,759 --> 00:14:03,320
christ stoological presuppositions of Genesis or understand the turn of

202
00:14:03,360 --> 00:14:06,000
the Old Testament, you would read these passages and think,

203
00:14:06,039 --> 00:14:08,480
and I thought this way as a Protestant. You think, oh,

204
00:14:08,600 --> 00:14:11,320
Adam is made in the image of like this unitarian

205
00:14:11,960 --> 00:14:16,360
generic unitarian God. No, it's Christ. And Paul even says

206
00:14:16,360 --> 00:14:19,320
that on Corintheus fifteen. He says that if Jesus is

207
00:14:19,360 --> 00:14:21,799
the second atom, it's because Adam was made in the

208
00:14:21,840 --> 00:14:25,159
image of Jesus. Right anyway, So.

209
00:14:25,639 --> 00:14:29,000
Speaker 2: Well, let's start getting into some of these One thing

210
00:14:29,000 --> 00:14:29,840
I forgot to tell.

211
00:14:31,200 --> 00:14:32,919
Speaker 3: And I think it's I don't know who wrote this

212
00:14:33,039 --> 00:14:37,960
article that ac sent, but it's the one about Yahwey's

213
00:14:38,000 --> 00:14:41,440
divine images, and it's talking about Oh well, let's see

214
00:14:41,440 --> 00:14:43,080
what are the first passages where we begin to see

215
00:14:43,080 --> 00:14:47,200
this Exodus three with the messenger of Yahweh. Well, I

216
00:14:47,200 --> 00:14:52,320
mean in Genesis sixteen, Hagar says I saw God face

217
00:14:52,360 --> 00:14:55,720
to face, and she named the place after seeing God

218
00:14:55,759 --> 00:14:59,840
face to face. So I mean they're already seeing God

219
00:15:00,080 --> 00:15:02,080
used to face very early in Genesis.

220
00:15:02,120 --> 00:15:06,240
Speaker 2: Someone which which undermines the general criticism, like of McClellan

221
00:15:06,279 --> 00:15:10,519
and others, is that the Trinity is a Hellenic invention. Exactly, well,

222
00:15:10,519 --> 00:15:12,720
how could it be a hellenic invention? If we're reading

223
00:15:13,480 --> 00:15:15,960
Torah and we're reading Old Testament books and we're clearly

224
00:15:16,000 --> 00:15:21,240
seeing multiplicity of persons of the Godhead. It's not some invention.

225
00:15:21,759 --> 00:15:24,279
Speaker 3: And not only that, as as I'm sure you're aware,

226
00:15:24,519 --> 00:15:28,919
like modern Jewish scholarship is already basically admitting, oh no,

227
00:15:29,080 --> 00:15:33,200
actually there is multiplicity in Jahweh throughout the Old Testam. Right.

228
00:15:33,320 --> 00:15:38,600
So you've got Boyarn, You've got Benjamin Summer Siegel, You've

229
00:15:38,639 --> 00:15:41,559
got these Jewish scholars who don't believe in Christianity, but

230
00:15:41,600 --> 00:15:45,159
they're admitting that clearly the Old Testament is not this

231
00:15:45,320 --> 00:15:49,360
Unitarian idea. And some are even admits that the strict

232
00:15:49,480 --> 00:15:54,320
Unitarian reading as mandated for Judaism is really late. That's

233
00:15:54,320 --> 00:15:55,840
not until my Mima nineties.

234
00:15:56,559 --> 00:15:58,799
Speaker 2: And then this was the book that you were referencing earlier,

235
00:15:58,840 --> 00:16:02,679
the Deification in Christ, fantastic book, and jay I reached

236
00:16:02,679 --> 00:16:06,360
out to him. He actually recommended this and h really

237
00:16:06,399 --> 00:16:07,240
really great great.

238
00:16:07,440 --> 00:16:10,039
Speaker 3: So that first chapter points out that like there's already

239
00:16:10,080 --> 00:16:13,399
a Christophane in Genesis when when Adam is made in

240
00:16:13,440 --> 00:16:16,759
the image of image of God, well, who, well, it's

241
00:16:16,799 --> 00:16:19,440
the same guy that's walking around the voice of the

242
00:16:19,480 --> 00:16:25,559
Lord walking in Genesis three eight, right, voice being the logos.

243
00:16:25,679 --> 00:16:30,679
Speaker 2: The logos, as AC highlighted, is a lot of the argumentation,

244
00:16:30,799 --> 00:16:34,120
and it seems like Muslims are adopting this comes out

245
00:16:34,200 --> 00:16:39,159
of Rabbinic interpretation of the Messiah. And so I've written

246
00:16:39,200 --> 00:16:41,919
down seven points at least that, and there's probably more,

247
00:16:42,279 --> 00:16:44,320
but these are the se the main seven that I've

248
00:16:44,639 --> 00:16:49,120
kind of found in preparation for the video that Rabbinic

249
00:16:49,200 --> 00:16:54,320
Judaism addresses as to nullify Christ being the Messiah. And

250
00:16:54,360 --> 00:16:57,159
so the first one has to do with the restoration

251
00:16:57,200 --> 00:17:01,159
of the Divinic kingdom. The Rabbinic criticism claims that Jesus

252
00:17:01,200 --> 00:17:04,440
did not restore the Jewish sovereignty or re establish the

253
00:17:04,519 --> 00:17:08,279
Kingdom of David, as Israel remained under Roman rule and

254
00:17:08,359 --> 00:17:13,119
later faced destruction. Obviously, from the Orthodox perspective, the Eastern

255
00:17:13,200 --> 00:17:17,119
Orthodox Church teaches that Jesus did fulfill the promise of

256
00:17:17,160 --> 00:17:19,920
the restoration of divin and keingnom. It's just as not temporal.

257
00:17:20,319 --> 00:17:22,440
It's not you know, the state of Israel. It's not

258
00:17:22,519 --> 00:17:26,920
a military political power. It's the Church. It's it transcends

259
00:17:27,559 --> 00:17:28,319
space and time.

260
00:17:28,480 --> 00:17:31,880
Speaker 3: Right, And you'll notice the easy response to this, which

261
00:17:31,920 --> 00:17:35,519
is Psalm One, which is cited many many times in

262
00:17:35,559 --> 00:17:37,960
the New Testament. In fact, Jesus himself he incites it

263
00:17:38,000 --> 00:17:40,240
against the Pharisees to say that how could this be

264
00:17:40,759 --> 00:17:44,240
just about David? Right, So it says the Lord said

265
00:17:44,279 --> 00:17:46,279
to my Lord, sit at my right hand until I

266
00:17:46,400 --> 00:17:49,799
make your enemies your footstool. The Lord shall send the

267
00:17:49,880 --> 00:17:52,200
row of your strength out of Zion rule in the

268
00:17:52,279 --> 00:17:54,880
midst of your enemies. And then it goes on to say,

269
00:17:55,000 --> 00:17:58,799
you are a priest forever according to the order of Malchizadex.

270
00:17:58,880 --> 00:18:02,279
So the same subject is said to be the dividic

271
00:18:02,440 --> 00:18:06,279
ruler there right is also a priest forever, recording the

272
00:18:06,359 --> 00:18:11,119
order Melkiza Da. David isn't a priest, So who fulfills

273
00:18:11,200 --> 00:18:14,440
this promise that's being said to this subject? Here it's

274
00:18:14,519 --> 00:18:17,759
being said historically to David. But David is a type,

275
00:18:18,119 --> 00:18:22,119
and this psalm is a type fulfilled in the eternal

276
00:18:22,440 --> 00:18:26,599
priest king who fulfills this by ascending and sitting at

277
00:18:26,599 --> 00:18:29,319
the right hand of the Father right and so Jesus

278
00:18:29,440 --> 00:18:32,400
himself in the Gospels uses Psalm one ten as a

279
00:18:32,400 --> 00:18:35,160
proof to say that this there's no way that this

280
00:18:35,240 --> 00:18:41,319
can be fulfilled in a historic earthly king, because a

281
00:18:41,440 --> 00:18:44,240
king in the tradition of Israel is not a priest.

282
00:18:44,920 --> 00:18:46,480
And yet this is said to be a person who's

283
00:18:46,519 --> 00:18:50,640
also an eternal priest according to order Melkizada. Right.

284
00:18:50,880 --> 00:18:53,240
Speaker 2: Well, and I wrote down John eighteen thirty six where

285
00:18:53,319 --> 00:18:57,039
Christ clearly references that his kingdom is not of this world.

286
00:18:57,839 --> 00:19:01,200
And obviously, from a Rabbinic position, they're not going to

287
00:19:01,279 --> 00:19:03,839
read the Gospel of John or give any sort of

288
00:19:03,839 --> 00:19:07,119
an authoritative meaning to that in regards to their hermenudy.

289
00:19:07,319 --> 00:19:10,359
Speaker 3: It's ironic, yeah, because because as you're going to point out,

290
00:19:10,519 --> 00:19:14,559
many of the objections, even from McLellan is and others,

291
00:19:14,640 --> 00:19:17,720
is things like, well, it's said that this is eternal,

292
00:19:17,880 --> 00:19:20,200
the law is eternal. Well, now wait a minute, because

293
00:19:20,480 --> 00:19:24,839
we're arguing that the kingdom is eternal and the spiritual

294
00:19:24,920 --> 00:19:29,200
meaning of the law is fulfilled and eternally kept in

295
00:19:29,240 --> 00:19:34,039
this eternal spiritual kingdom. So we're admitting the eternal principle,

296
00:19:34,400 --> 00:19:36,839
but they're turning around and saying, oh, wait a minute,

297
00:19:36,880 --> 00:19:38,559
it can't be an eternal thing. It has to be

298
00:19:38,640 --> 00:19:43,440
a historical, actual Davidic king like David right, with an

299
00:19:43,480 --> 00:19:46,759
earthly kingdom. But wait a minute, I thought that you're

300
00:19:46,839 --> 00:19:49,400
arguing that it can't be this eternal spiritual thing. How

301
00:19:49,440 --> 00:19:51,599
else is the I mean, the law can't eternally be

302
00:19:51,680 --> 00:19:52,880
kept on earth?

303
00:19:54,400 --> 00:19:54,640
Speaker 4: Right?

304
00:19:54,799 --> 00:19:55,640
Speaker 3: Do you see what I'm saying?

305
00:19:55,880 --> 00:19:56,880
Speaker 2: No, I see you.

306
00:19:58,359 --> 00:20:01,079
Speaker 3: When they need it to be spiritual for them, it's spiritual.

307
00:20:01,079 --> 00:20:03,039
But when they need it to be literal and an

308
00:20:03,039 --> 00:20:06,079
earthly thing for them, it's literal and earthly. When our

309
00:20:06,160 --> 00:20:10,400
position is the one that is both historical and eternal

310
00:20:10,440 --> 00:20:13,039
and spiritual and consistent. Right.

311
00:20:14,119 --> 00:20:16,759
Speaker 2: The second point that I have in regards to the

312
00:20:16,839 --> 00:20:21,960
Rabbinic criticism of Christ being the Messiah is their claim

313
00:20:22,079 --> 00:20:24,519
that the rebuilding of the Third Temple, and so the

314
00:20:24,640 --> 00:20:28,160
Rabbinic criticism is Jesus did not rebuild the Temple in Jerusalem. Instead,

315
00:20:28,480 --> 00:20:31,920
the temple was destroyed by the Romans and sevenycee prophesied

316
00:20:31,960 --> 00:20:36,240
by both Christ and Daniel. But Orthodoxy obviously interprets the

317
00:20:36,279 --> 00:20:39,759
prosphe of rebuilding the temple as again the Church. This

318
00:20:39,839 --> 00:20:41,359
is going to be a main theme here when we

319
00:20:41,359 --> 00:20:44,200
look at these rabbinic criticisms and why it's probably going

320
00:20:44,400 --> 00:20:48,039
more difficult for this deconstructing my Christianity for Protestants to

321
00:20:48,160 --> 00:20:51,400
respond to it, because when you look at the comments

322
00:20:51,400 --> 00:20:54,880
and you look at this whole malu over on social media,

323
00:20:54,880 --> 00:20:58,079
it's mostly Protestantism is the thing that's being deconstructed, and

324
00:20:58,119 --> 00:21:03,240
it's Protestanism Protestants responding to these people. And so you know,

325
00:21:03,359 --> 00:21:07,960
Orthodoxy teaches that the third Temple is the Church. Jesus

326
00:21:07,960 --> 00:21:11,039
refers to his own body exactly true temple, and through

327
00:21:11,079 --> 00:21:14,039
his death and resurrection he established a new living temple

328
00:21:14,039 --> 00:21:16,359
which is not made with human hands. The spiritual temple

329
00:21:16,440 --> 00:21:19,240
is the Church. And so we can look at first

330
00:21:19,240 --> 00:21:23,240
Peter two four through five. That's the physical rebuilding of

331
00:21:23,279 --> 00:21:27,319
the Jerusalem Temple is seen as unnecessary at this point

332
00:21:27,440 --> 00:21:29,240
Christ has already fulfilled it.

333
00:21:30,079 --> 00:21:35,920
Speaker 3: Yeah, the physical temple is a type of the spiritual

334
00:21:35,960 --> 00:21:39,200
reality that he brings through his death or resurrection and

335
00:21:39,240 --> 00:21:41,240
the sinning of the Holy Spirit. In fact, if you

336
00:21:41,359 --> 00:21:45,519
read Peter's sermon in Acts too. He actually explains all

337
00:21:45,559 --> 00:21:49,799
this as well. Right. He explains that David says, concerning

338
00:21:50,440 --> 00:21:53,839
Jesus and not concerning himself, that he would not be

339
00:21:53,920 --> 00:21:55,880
left in hades, but that he would be raised. And

340
00:21:56,200 --> 00:22:00,200
he cites the fifteen eight through eleven. He says, like

341
00:22:00,240 --> 00:22:04,480
I pointed out, citing Psalm one, ten, Lord said to

342
00:22:04,519 --> 00:22:06,240
my Lord, send in my right hand until I make

343
00:22:06,240 --> 00:22:10,039
your enemies your footstool. Peter says, David does not fulfill this,

344
00:22:10,119 --> 00:22:12,640
He did not ascend into the heavens. But Christ does

345
00:22:12,680 --> 00:22:16,640
fulfill this. He also cites Joel and the prophecy that

346
00:22:16,880 --> 00:22:19,240
when you see the Holy Spirit come down upon the

347
00:22:19,279 --> 00:22:23,359
Gentiles as well as the Jews, and that the Holy

348
00:22:23,400 --> 00:22:25,920
Spirit is given also to the Gentiles, that would be

349
00:22:25,920 --> 00:22:29,680
a sign upon all flesh. That's what Joel prophesies for Pentecost.

350
00:22:30,079 --> 00:22:32,160
That's a sign that the Messiah has come and he

351
00:22:32,240 --> 00:22:32,720
sent his spirit.

352
00:22:32,759 --> 00:22:33,039
Speaker 2: By the way.

353
00:22:33,039 --> 00:22:34,799
Speaker 3: That's always spirit in the Old Testament too. By the way,

354
00:22:34,880 --> 00:22:37,519
because Joel is predicting the presence of the life of

355
00:22:37,559 --> 00:22:39,799
the Holy Spirit to be poured out upon all flesh,

356
00:22:40,240 --> 00:22:42,519
that there will be prophecies, visions, and so forth, I

357
00:22:42,519 --> 00:22:44,400
will pour out my Spirit on those days, and your

358
00:22:44,400 --> 00:22:47,319
sons and your daughters will prophesy. That's the Old Testament

359
00:22:47,359 --> 00:22:50,000
talking about the person of the Holy Spirit, which is

360
00:22:50,039 --> 00:22:53,559
fulfilled according to Acts two, according to Peter at the

361
00:22:53,680 --> 00:22:56,240
very event of Pentecost and Acts two. So the point

362
00:22:56,279 --> 00:22:58,559
is that those are all supposed to be the signs

363
00:22:58,799 --> 00:23:02,440
that those old some events are being fulfilled. And the

364
00:23:02,559 --> 00:23:05,640
very logic of the text themselves from the Old Testament

365
00:23:05,720 --> 00:23:09,400
tells you that it can't be David, that the promise

366
00:23:09,480 --> 00:23:13,920
is made to that David's sons and David himself would

367
00:23:14,480 --> 00:23:16,480
rise up and reign in heaven. It has to be

368
00:23:16,640 --> 00:23:20,680
one of David's descendants who sits on the throne right.

369
00:23:22,119 --> 00:23:25,400
Speaker 2: So number three, the third point that I wrote down

370
00:23:25,440 --> 00:23:28,839
regards to these rabbinic criticisms is the in gathering of

371
00:23:28,880 --> 00:23:31,759
the exiles. So the rabbinic criticism, and again this is

372
00:23:31,839 --> 00:23:35,400
just being adopted by many of these deconstructing by Christianity people,

373
00:23:35,920 --> 00:23:38,640
is that Jesus or Jesus did not gather the Jewish

374
00:23:38,680 --> 00:23:42,440
exiles back to Israel. Instead, the Jewish diaspora continued and

375
00:23:42,480 --> 00:23:47,319
expanded after his time. However, from again an Orthodox perspective,

376
00:23:47,680 --> 00:23:50,279
the in gathering of the exiles is understood as again

377
00:23:50,400 --> 00:23:53,559
the Orthodox Church, the gathering of all nations in the

378
00:23:53,599 --> 00:23:55,079
New Israel, which is.

379
00:23:55,039 --> 00:24:01,359
Speaker 3: That very comment is their statement is answered in Acts fifteen.

380
00:24:02,279 --> 00:24:08,039
So when the Jerusalem Council meets and they're discussing the

381
00:24:08,079 --> 00:24:10,720
first of all, the restoration that you're talking about is

382
00:24:10,880 --> 00:24:14,599
what Acts two is talking about. So in many of

383
00:24:14,599 --> 00:24:16,759
the Old Testament texts are fulfilled in terms of this

384
00:24:16,839 --> 00:24:20,640
rebuilding and the bringing back together of God's people to himself.

385
00:24:20,920 --> 00:24:24,000
Pentecost is a fulfillment of that. And then when they

386
00:24:24,000 --> 00:24:28,119
have the Jerusalem Council, in part it says, men and brethren,

387
00:24:28,160 --> 00:24:30,960
listen to me. Simon has declared how God visited the

388
00:24:30,960 --> 00:24:33,680
Gentiles to take out of them a people for his name.

389
00:24:34,279 --> 00:24:36,960
And with this the prophets agree, for it is written

390
00:24:37,559 --> 00:24:40,720
after this, I will return, and I will rebuild the

391
00:24:40,759 --> 00:24:44,240
Tabernacle of David, which fell down. I will rebuild its ruins,

392
00:24:44,279 --> 00:24:47,200
and I will set it up so that the rest

393
00:24:47,200 --> 00:24:50,920
of mankind can seek the Lord, and the gentiles who

394
00:24:50,960 --> 00:24:52,759
are called by my name will trust in me, etc.

395
00:24:53,119 --> 00:24:57,920
So they're interpreting the Tabernacle of David being restored in

396
00:24:57,960 --> 00:25:02,680
that passage of Ezekiel and a in Isaiah sixteen, they're

397
00:25:02,720 --> 00:25:05,599
all similar language there the tabernacle, David is the church.

398
00:25:06,160 --> 00:25:08,880
And how do we know that? Because you get this.

399
00:25:10,480 --> 00:25:12,559
There's about I have a list of this too. There's

400
00:25:12,599 --> 00:25:18,119
about I'm going to say, one hundred one hundred at

401
00:25:18,200 --> 00:25:25,119
least passages, maybe maybe eighty seventy eighty specifically predicting that

402
00:25:25,200 --> 00:25:29,200
when the Messiah comes, the Gentiles will begin to convert

403
00:25:29,599 --> 00:25:37,480
and believe in the in the God of Israel. Right, So, hello, like,

404
00:25:37,519 --> 00:25:42,079
when did this happen? Jesus comes, massive gentile nations to convert,

405
00:25:42,160 --> 00:25:45,319
begin to believe in yeahwah. So it's obvious that that's

406
00:25:45,319 --> 00:25:47,079
the fulfillment of it. And I would add too that

407
00:25:47,440 --> 00:25:50,519
there's specific prophecies, because I know the rabbinic thing that

408
00:25:50,799 --> 00:25:55,960
they're all well, but that can't be. That can't be gentiles.

409
00:25:56,000 --> 00:25:59,319
It has to be you know, in Israel or whatever.

410
00:25:59,359 --> 00:26:01,160
It has to be only for the Jews. No, no, no,

411
00:26:01,519 --> 00:26:06,119
How does Isaiah say there's gentile priests? How does the prophecy?

412
00:26:06,160 --> 00:26:11,000
What is it? Malachi that incense will be offered all

413
00:26:11,039 --> 00:26:12,880
over the world for the name of Yahweh. You know

414
00:26:12,960 --> 00:26:15,759
you can only offer incense according to the Mosaic law

415
00:26:15,920 --> 00:26:18,599
in the temple, and it can only be done by

416
00:26:18,599 --> 00:26:23,720
the priests, Deroonic priests. How could gentiles offer incense God

417
00:26:23,720 --> 00:26:26,920
doesn't accept If you read the book of Leviticus, for example,

418
00:26:27,000 --> 00:26:29,039
native and a Bai who try to offer incense in

419
00:26:29,079 --> 00:26:31,759
the improper way, and God kills them, and I think

420
00:26:31,759 --> 00:26:35,000
it's Leviticu's ten. So well, wait a minute, how is

421
00:26:35,039 --> 00:26:38,640
there going to be gentile people and gentile priests offering

422
00:26:38,680 --> 00:26:42,160
incense to Yahweh? How is there an altar in Egypt

423
00:26:42,279 --> 00:26:48,359
to Yahweh? And Isaiah nineteen that violates Mosaic law. The

424
00:26:48,400 --> 00:26:51,160
only way to reconcile those passages is like, oh, because

425
00:26:51,480 --> 00:26:54,559
Christianity is the fulfillment of this, right.

426
00:26:54,599 --> 00:26:57,400
Speaker 2: When it gets back to the hermeneutics and the priest

427
00:26:57,400 --> 00:27:00,000
suppositions in which one reads the scripture in the first place.

428
00:27:00,640 --> 00:27:03,640
Speaker 3: Yeah, but even these passages, even if you don't have

429
00:27:03,640 --> 00:27:07,759
the Christian hermeneutic in Mosaic, in Jewish law, you can't

430
00:27:07,799 --> 00:27:10,200
have gentiles offering incense to y'ahway.

431
00:27:10,160 --> 00:27:13,079
Speaker 2: Right, But the Jews would claim that's why Jesus hasn't

432
00:27:13,079 --> 00:27:17,000
come yet, because they're rejecting our scriptural basis for how.

433
00:27:17,119 --> 00:27:19,799
Speaker 3: Even when Theresiah comes, a gentile can't do that. You

434
00:27:19,839 --> 00:27:21,039
have to go to Israel to do that.

435
00:27:21,400 --> 00:27:22,039
Speaker 2: Oh gotcha?

436
00:27:22,599 --> 00:27:25,519
Speaker 3: Yeah, you know. In other words, like so Isaiah nineteen,

437
00:27:25,599 --> 00:27:29,839
for example, says that there will be an altar in Egypt.

438
00:27:29,839 --> 00:27:33,160
To Yahweh, you can't after Mosaic law, you can't build

439
00:27:33,240 --> 00:27:37,119
altars anywhere but in Jerusalem.

440
00:27:37,359 --> 00:27:41,599
Speaker 2: Yeah, a great point. Well. I also wrote down Galatians

441
00:27:41,599 --> 00:27:44,640
three twenty eight in regards to this Jews and Gentiles,

442
00:27:44,680 --> 00:27:48,960
because Paul clearly makes the point that in the Second

443
00:27:48,960 --> 00:27:52,640
Covenant of Christ that this distinction has been annihilated and

444
00:27:52,680 --> 00:27:56,359
that it has been fulfilled, and that, according to him,

445
00:27:56,359 --> 00:27:59,720
that the prophecy is now ongoing. Christ continues to draw

446
00:27:59,759 --> 00:28:02,400
peace people from every corner of the world into his kingdom,

447
00:28:02,440 --> 00:28:05,319
which is the Church. And this is a spiritual gathering

448
00:28:05,359 --> 00:28:09,759
that transcends geographical boundaries and uniting all believers in Christ,

449
00:28:09,759 --> 00:28:12,079
which gets actually to your point that you're just making

450
00:28:12,119 --> 00:28:16,599
that if the kingdom is the new Israel, which is

451
00:28:16,640 --> 00:28:20,200
the Church, now that spiritual dimension allows them to be

452
00:28:20,240 --> 00:28:24,640
in multiple places, transcending geographical dimensions and lines. Whereas if

453
00:28:24,960 --> 00:28:28,759
you reject that, now you're sort of stuck with actual

454
00:28:28,799 --> 00:28:29,880
geographical location.

455
00:28:30,640 --> 00:28:33,920
Speaker 3: So again, let's refute the serbbinic idea. About two more passages.

456
00:28:34,000 --> 00:28:39,680
Isaiah's sixty six, it says, in verse twenty one, I

457
00:28:39,720 --> 00:28:43,039
shall take some of them, the gentiles to whom the

458
00:28:43,079 --> 00:28:46,200
message has gone. That's earlier. In verse twenty bring your

459
00:28:46,240 --> 00:28:48,720
brethren from ont of the gentiles. I will take some

460
00:28:48,759 --> 00:28:51,920
of them to be my priest and levites. You understand

461
00:28:51,920 --> 00:28:54,839
that in the Jewish position, even when the Messiah comes,

462
00:28:54,920 --> 00:28:57,960
there are no gentile priests. There's no gentile levits, okay,

463
00:28:58,279 --> 00:29:02,359
because remember the Jewish ideas, Messiah will subjugate the gentiles

464
00:29:02,359 --> 00:29:05,240
to us, They're not going to be priests. And yet

465
00:29:05,279 --> 00:29:07,440
Isaiah is predicting, Wait a minute, how can there be

466
00:29:08,000 --> 00:29:12,119
gentile priests? In Isaiah sixty one, he says very similarly

467
00:29:13,000 --> 00:29:16,599
sixty one, verse five, foreigners shall come and shepherd you.

468
00:29:17,480 --> 00:29:21,359
Aliens will be your plowmen and your vine dressers. They

469
00:29:21,400 --> 00:29:25,599
will be called priests of God. Imagine how offensive when

470
00:29:25,599 --> 00:29:29,400
Isaiah said this. This was to the Jews. You're saying,

471
00:29:29,519 --> 00:29:33,279
gentile priests are gonna be priests in Israel. Get out

472
00:29:33,319 --> 00:29:34,920
of here. Cut them in half. And they did they

473
00:29:34,920 --> 00:29:35,799
cut Isaiah in half.

474
00:29:37,519 --> 00:29:42,039
Speaker 2: Right, The next point that I wrote down was the

475
00:29:42,079 --> 00:29:46,559
world peace and universal knowledge of God. So Rabbinic Judaism

476
00:29:46,599 --> 00:29:49,400
has a criticism that the Messianic Age is supposed to

477
00:29:49,400 --> 00:29:53,359
bring you universal peace and recognition of God, which has not,

478
00:29:53,480 --> 00:29:58,960
according to them, occurred after Jesus's lifetime. The Orthodox teaching

479
00:29:59,240 --> 00:30:02,599
is we've view as the Prince of Peace Isaiah ninety six,

480
00:30:02,960 --> 00:30:05,720
who brings peace not only between nations, but more importantly

481
00:30:05,759 --> 00:30:09,920
between God and humanity. The Church teaches that Christ's peace

482
00:30:09,960 --> 00:30:12,480
begins within the hearts of believers. This is part of

483
00:30:12,519 --> 00:30:16,759
the Second Covenant, reconciling them to God and to one

484
00:30:16,759 --> 00:30:18,920
another through the Holy Spirit. This entner piece is the

485
00:30:18,960 --> 00:30:22,519
foundation of outward peace, which is progressively realized as more

486
00:30:22,599 --> 00:30:26,759
people embraced Christ. So this fullness of the universal peace

487
00:30:27,359 --> 00:30:29,839
is expected to be fulfilled in the second coming of Christ,

488
00:30:29,839 --> 00:30:32,000
when he will establish a new Heaven and new Earth

489
00:30:32,039 --> 00:30:37,400
Revelation twenty one to one, bringing the total end of sin, conflict,

490
00:30:37,440 --> 00:30:40,880
and death. But he's already defeated death, and he's already

491
00:30:40,920 --> 00:30:44,960
defeated sin through the Incarnation, the Resurrection, and the ascension.

492
00:30:45,079 --> 00:30:48,519
So what would be your line of attack regarding the

493
00:30:48,599 --> 00:30:52,200
rabbinic criticism of world peace and knowledge of God universal

494
00:30:52,240 --> 00:30:52,960
knowledge of God.

495
00:30:54,119 --> 00:30:57,480
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's different in the Orthodox study Bible because the

496
00:30:57,599 --> 00:31:01,079
ordering of Jeremiah is different, and it's a little confusing

497
00:31:01,079 --> 00:31:03,680
because I just reread Jeremiah the other day and finished that,

498
00:31:04,319 --> 00:31:08,440
and I noticed that in the Protestant Bible it's Jeremiah

499
00:31:08,480 --> 00:31:11,400
thirty one and thirty three if you read those two chapters,

500
00:31:11,880 --> 00:31:15,039
which is where the famous New Covenant statement is in

501
00:31:15,400 --> 00:31:18,680
the Orthodox Bible is thirty eight. It says, behold, the

502
00:31:18,759 --> 00:31:21,279
days are coming when I will make a new covenant

503
00:31:21,319 --> 00:31:24,119
with the House of Israel and with the House of Judah,

504
00:31:24,240 --> 00:31:26,640
not according to the covenant that I made with their

505
00:31:26,680 --> 00:31:29,559
fathers when I took their hand to bring them out

506
00:31:29,599 --> 00:31:32,160
of the land of Egypt. So notice the new Covenant,

507
00:31:32,240 --> 00:31:36,960
this one that's coming, is going to replace the Mosaic.

508
00:31:37,960 --> 00:31:41,559
So the Mosaic and we would agree as Orthodox that

509
00:31:41,599 --> 00:31:45,440
there is a spiritual interpretation which allows it to still

510
00:31:45,480 --> 00:31:50,480
be eternal. It's just not eternal in its literal historical keeping.

511
00:31:51,119 --> 00:31:53,839
By sacrificing animals and all this kind of stuff. It's

512
00:31:53,960 --> 00:31:56,759
kept all lah Jesus and Matthew five saying that not

513
00:31:56,799 --> 00:31:59,200
one john ter, one tittle passes. It's kept in the

514
00:31:59,279 --> 00:32:02,519
proper way spiritually, which is by the way, how ultimately

515
00:32:02,519 --> 00:32:05,640
it was always supposed to be kept all the meaning

516
00:32:05,680 --> 00:32:09,359
all along, according to Paul of, don't sew two garments

517
00:32:09,400 --> 00:32:13,640
on one garment was a spiritual thing about not being

518
00:32:13,720 --> 00:32:15,880
yoked together with evil. It's supposed to teach you. It's

519
00:32:15,920 --> 00:32:19,559
a pedagogical device to teach you not to sew two

520
00:32:19,559 --> 00:32:23,480
different things in a field, meaning don't unite with evil. Right,

521
00:32:23,680 --> 00:32:26,880
it's teaching a virch and vice, unclean animals. They symbolize

522
00:32:26,880 --> 00:32:29,680
demons and vices in the Old Testament, and so they

523
00:32:29,680 --> 00:32:31,920
were supposed to learn this. That's the real meaning of it.

524
00:32:31,960 --> 00:32:34,359
So when the reality comes of the New Covenant, which

525
00:32:34,400 --> 00:32:38,200
again remember it is not according to the Mosaic Covenant,

526
00:32:38,200 --> 00:32:42,880
so there is a clear discrepancy between this coming Messianic Covenant.

527
00:32:43,720 --> 00:32:44,200
Speaker 2: And then it.

528
00:32:44,160 --> 00:32:47,960
Speaker 3: Says each of them shall teach his neighbor. They will

529
00:32:48,000 --> 00:32:49,599
not teach them or know the Lord, for they will

530
00:32:49,599 --> 00:32:51,440
all know me, from the leaders to the great, from

531
00:32:51,480 --> 00:32:53,519
the least to the greatest. Who are the members of

532
00:32:53,519 --> 00:32:56,319
this universal knowledge? Here? And if you have the process

533
00:32:56,319 --> 00:32:58,119
of bubble Jerma at thirty one, the Orthars buble Geram

534
00:32:58,119 --> 00:33:00,519
at thirty eight. It's the people that have the law

535
00:33:00,519 --> 00:33:02,599
written on their hearts, which is the present's of Holy

536
00:33:02,640 --> 00:33:06,359
Spirit in them. It's the Church. So the universality that

537
00:33:06,400 --> 00:33:10,720
you're talking about is identified even in the Jeremiah passage

538
00:33:11,240 --> 00:33:14,400
as those who have the expert in them in the Church. Right.

539
00:33:16,200 --> 00:33:20,000
Speaker 2: The point five that I wrote down is Rabbinic criticism

540
00:33:20,039 --> 00:33:24,319
and regarding the perfect observance of the Torah. They claim

541
00:33:24,359 --> 00:33:27,440
that the messiahs expected to lead all people in perfect

542
00:33:27,519 --> 00:33:32,000
Torah observance. Yet Jesus' teachings are often appeared to deviate

543
00:33:32,400 --> 00:33:37,519
from traditional Jewish law. According to rabbinic tradition. Orthodox he

544
00:33:37,559 --> 00:33:40,960
teaches that Jesus perfectly fulfilled the Torah and the Law

545
00:33:41,200 --> 00:33:44,079
through his life, death, and resurrection. He is seen as

546
00:33:44,119 --> 00:33:47,839
not abolishing the law, but fulfilling its deepest intent Matthew

547
00:33:47,920 --> 00:33:53,079
five seventeen. Jesus interpretation of the Law emphasize its spirit

548
00:33:53,279 --> 00:33:56,519
rather than its letter, focusing on the love of God

549
00:33:56,599 --> 00:33:59,559
and neighbor as the highest commandments. For Orthodox Christians, the

550
00:33:59,599 --> 00:34:02,759
new cup and established by Christ is the ultimate expression

551
00:34:02,759 --> 00:34:05,400
of God's Law written on the hearts of all believers

552
00:34:05,480 --> 00:34:08,199
rather than on stone tablets. The life of the church,

553
00:34:08,280 --> 00:34:10,480
guided by the Holy Spirit, is seen as the true

554
00:34:10,519 --> 00:34:14,400
continuation of Torah observance, fulfilled through fulfilled through Christ.

555
00:34:15,719 --> 00:34:19,599
Speaker 3: Yeah, this helps to understand what Torah is. So Torah

556
00:34:19,719 --> 00:34:26,000
is the word that God spoke, particularly obviously at Mount Sinai.

557
00:34:26,480 --> 00:34:28,719
And if we remember the way that Jesus argues in

558
00:34:28,760 --> 00:34:32,320
John five through nine, it wasn't God the Father. So

559
00:34:32,440 --> 00:34:34,679
who was Moses face to face with? It has to

560
00:34:34,719 --> 00:34:37,719
be some other being. Now, the rabbinic idea is, oh,

561
00:34:37,760 --> 00:34:41,440
it's these angels, it's Metatron. It's all this different angelic

562
00:34:41,760 --> 00:34:45,920
you know, veil between Moses even and God. But yet

563
00:34:45,960 --> 00:34:48,760
we're told that Moses saw God face to face even

564
00:34:48,800 --> 00:34:51,320
in the Old Testament. So how is that possible. Well,

565
00:34:51,360 --> 00:34:55,000
it's possible because there is this mediator, there is this

566
00:34:55,159 --> 00:35:01,239
second person that is able to be seen and interacted with.

567
00:35:01,679 --> 00:35:04,880
It's the voice that was walking in the garden. It's

568
00:35:04,920 --> 00:35:07,119
and by the way, he appears again multiple times even

569
00:35:07,119 --> 00:35:10,039
in the historical books of the Kings as the voice

570
00:35:10,400 --> 00:35:16,519
walking and doing things, the logos walking around. So the

571
00:35:16,559 --> 00:35:20,960
whole idea is that the Torah is the word in

572
00:35:21,039 --> 00:35:25,719
a written form, But when Messiah comes, he is the

573
00:35:26,239 --> 00:35:29,840
living Torah. So he is the living Torah. So it's

574
00:35:29,840 --> 00:35:35,039
not that we're displacing Torah for some other thing. It's

575
00:35:35,119 --> 00:35:39,599
that this was meant as his speech in a created

576
00:35:39,760 --> 00:35:45,519
form to point us to the uncreated speech in reality

577
00:35:45,519 --> 00:35:47,280
walking around with us when he's incarnate.

578
00:35:48,239 --> 00:35:53,360
Speaker 2: Right, and number six is there ebentic criticism of resurrection

579
00:35:53,440 --> 00:35:56,000
of the dead in the end of Sin. They claim

580
00:35:56,039 --> 00:35:58,360
that the resurrection of the dead and the eradication of

581
00:35:58,400 --> 00:36:00,840
sin and death are supposed to be the hallmarks of

582
00:36:00,880 --> 00:36:04,400
the Messianic age, yet the world remains full of sin

583
00:36:04,639 --> 00:36:09,119
and death. Obviously, we as Orthodox Christian teach that jesus

584
00:36:09,239 --> 00:36:12,719
resurrection is the first fruits of the resurrection of all

585
00:36:12,800 --> 00:36:15,760
one Corinthians fifteen twenty. His victory over death is the

586
00:36:15,760 --> 00:36:19,719
beginning of the final resurrection, which we will be fully

587
00:36:19,760 --> 00:36:22,039
realized at the end of time when all the dead

588
00:36:22,079 --> 00:36:25,400
will be raised and judged. The resurrection of Christ inaugurated

589
00:36:25,480 --> 00:36:29,159
a new reality where death is defeated, though not yet

590
00:36:29,199 --> 00:36:33,039
abolished in its entirety. The Orthodox Church lives in the

591
00:36:33,039 --> 00:36:36,039
tension between the already and the not yet, the both

592
00:36:36,079 --> 00:36:39,199
and that you always speak about. And Christ has already

593
00:36:39,239 --> 00:36:43,599
conquered sin and death, but the complete realization of this

594
00:36:43,719 --> 00:36:47,400
victory awaits in the final consummation in history.

595
00:36:47,920 --> 00:36:50,760
Speaker 3: Yeah, Paul speaks of the down payment of the Holy Spirit,

596
00:36:51,239 --> 00:36:54,519
anticipating the future return. He speaks in Romans eight of

597
00:36:55,039 --> 00:36:59,000
we do not yet see the recapitulation, but right now

598
00:36:59,400 --> 00:37:03,760
the created order groans and eagerly awaits the revealing of

599
00:37:03,800 --> 00:37:07,760
the sons of God at the escaton. Also remember the

600
00:37:07,800 --> 00:37:11,440
phraseology of some one tin itself sit at my right

601
00:37:11,480 --> 00:37:14,800
hand until I make your enemies your footstool. So there

602
00:37:14,840 --> 00:37:18,079
is this assumption even in the text of an ongoing

603
00:37:18,320 --> 00:37:22,360
historical battle. Right, that's that's again, that's an Old Testament text.

604
00:37:22,760 --> 00:37:26,960
If that's prophecying Messiah, which Jews admit is a Messianer prophecy,

605
00:37:27,280 --> 00:37:30,599
there is even within that prophecy the idea that when

606
00:37:30,639 --> 00:37:33,079
he's on high, when he's sitting at the right end

607
00:37:33,079 --> 00:37:35,280
of the Father, there is an ongoing battle. And you

608
00:37:35,360 --> 00:37:39,719
notice even in the Daniel passages, for example, when you

609
00:37:39,719 --> 00:37:42,400
know you have the passes, the famous passion in Daniel seven,

610
00:37:42,920 --> 00:37:46,559
which the Jewish scholars are admitting, you've got the son

611
00:37:46,599 --> 00:37:50,039
of Man and you've got the Ancient of Days. So

612
00:37:50,280 --> 00:37:53,119
clearly there's a distinction here going on in these personages,

613
00:37:53,119 --> 00:37:56,119
in these hypostases. And I'm speaking of the Jewish Jewish

614
00:37:56,119 --> 00:37:58,800
scholars that we mentioned earlier, like b are In and Schaeffer.

615
00:37:59,119 --> 00:38:02,159
Shaeffer has a whole book on Daniel seven and how

616
00:38:02,199 --> 00:38:06,599
this suggests at least, you know, two powers. Obviously we

617
00:38:06,679 --> 00:38:10,440
believe in a trinity, but the point still stands that

618
00:38:10,519 --> 00:38:12,840
it's at least it's pointing out that it's not a

619
00:38:12,960 --> 00:38:16,960
very unity, right. But the Daniel seven passage is also

620
00:38:17,239 --> 00:38:21,480
I've always interpreted this as the ascension. Some people, I

621
00:38:21,519 --> 00:38:25,320
think erroneously understand the passage as the Second Coming, because

622
00:38:25,360 --> 00:38:27,880
it speaks of, you know, the saints and the Kingdom

623
00:38:27,920 --> 00:38:31,039
of Heaven and all this. But what it seems to say,

624
00:38:31,280 --> 00:38:35,280
is my understanding, is that it says that I watched,

625
00:38:35,320 --> 00:38:37,239
and thrones were put in place, and the Ancient of

626
00:38:37,360 --> 00:38:40,800
Days enthrone himself, and then it describes him in this

627
00:38:41,360 --> 00:38:44,760
white hair sort of description, and then it says one

628
00:38:44,880 --> 00:38:49,400
came to him with the clouds of heaven, the Son

629
00:38:49,440 --> 00:38:53,519
of Man right and approached to him. Then to the

630
00:38:53,519 --> 00:38:57,719
Son of Man was given dominion, kingdom, honor, power, et cetera.

631
00:38:58,079 --> 00:39:02,280
That's exactly parallel to the Book of Revelation describing the

632
00:39:02,320 --> 00:39:05,159
ascension and when the sun in the Book of Revelation

633
00:39:05,320 --> 00:39:08,840
comes to the Ancient of days, there he is given authority, power,

634
00:39:08,920 --> 00:39:13,320
and dominion that is in our nature. So Christ, even

635
00:39:13,360 --> 00:39:15,440
though Christ, as the second person that God had, has

636
00:39:15,519 --> 00:39:17,920
always had these things, but he had not had these

637
00:39:17,920 --> 00:39:20,880
things in our nature. So I believe that Daniel seven

638
00:39:21,000 --> 00:39:24,719
is describing what's sometimes in theology called the session. So

639
00:39:24,760 --> 00:39:28,000
it's the session of the king, a procession basically to

640
00:39:28,079 --> 00:39:32,719
be awarded the earth in our nature right. And if

641
00:39:32,760 --> 00:39:37,239
you look at it's a perfect parallel between Revelation. I

642
00:39:37,239 --> 00:39:40,159
think maybe it's four from memory, but it's when as

643
00:39:40,199 --> 00:39:44,679
human revelation five, I think four and five, when he's

644
00:39:44,719 --> 00:39:47,840
accorded this authority in our nature right.

645
00:39:48,400 --> 00:39:51,480
Speaker 2: And the last point kind of piggybacks on the sixth

646
00:39:51,519 --> 00:39:54,760
point number seven is the Rabbindan criticism that the Messiah

647
00:39:54,800 --> 00:39:57,119
is expected to bring about an age of moral and

648
00:39:57,199 --> 00:40:01,599
spiritual perfection, which they claim has yet to happen, and

649
00:40:02,639 --> 00:40:05,039
the Orthodox Church teach that through Christ, the power of

650
00:40:05,079 --> 00:40:07,760
sin has already been broken, as we've already mentioned, and

651
00:40:07,840 --> 00:40:11,840
believers are given the grace to overcome sin through repentance,

652
00:40:12,159 --> 00:40:15,800
the sacraments, and life in Christ I e. Again the Church.

653
00:40:16,400 --> 00:40:20,360
So in the interim until christ second coming, christ followers

654
00:40:20,360 --> 00:40:23,440
are called to participate in this work of personal transformation

655
00:40:23,960 --> 00:40:27,079
embodying the Kingdom of God in the present world as

656
00:40:27,119 --> 00:40:32,000
a foretaste of what is to come. They are expecting

657
00:40:32,039 --> 00:40:37,719
some type of perfect earthly paradise where justice and sin

658
00:40:37,840 --> 00:40:41,440
is abolished, and justice, pure universal justice reigns.

659
00:40:42,719 --> 00:40:45,400
Speaker 3: Well again, keep in mind what we just read in

660
00:40:45,440 --> 00:40:48,880
Psalm one ten and what we saw in Daniel seven.

661
00:40:49,000 --> 00:40:51,360
When you go and you read it, it's Revelation five.

662
00:40:51,920 --> 00:40:55,280
When you read the opening of the scroll, which by

663
00:40:55,320 --> 00:40:59,679
the way, is all a heavenly liturgical service, it says

664
00:40:59,679 --> 00:41:01,760
when they opened the scrolls, they said, do not weep.

665
00:41:02,119 --> 00:41:04,960
The lion of Judah, the root of David has prevailed,

666
00:41:05,559 --> 00:41:07,360
and he is able to open the scroll and loose

667
00:41:07,360 --> 00:41:09,639
its seals. And I looked him behold in the midst

668
00:41:09,639 --> 00:41:11,519
of the throne of the four living creatures, and the

669
00:41:11,519 --> 00:41:15,039
elders stood the lamb having been slain. So notice he's

670
00:41:15,079 --> 00:41:17,159
still bleeding in heaven. So that means there is still

671
00:41:17,199 --> 00:41:22,639
an application of this sacrifice even in heaven, the seven

672
00:41:22,679 --> 00:41:24,920
eyes and the seven spirits of God, et cetera. And

673
00:41:24,920 --> 00:41:27,840
then it says the elders fell down and worshiped him,

674
00:41:27,840 --> 00:41:29,639
which by the way, proves the deed of Christ. He's

675
00:41:29,679 --> 00:41:32,079
being worshiped in heaven. He wouldn't be worshiped if he

676
00:41:32,159 --> 00:41:36,360
were not divine. But then it says that He received

677
00:41:37,320 --> 00:41:40,000
out of every tribe tongue in nation the right to

678
00:41:40,280 --> 00:41:44,159
rule and has made us to be kings and priests

679
00:41:44,239 --> 00:41:46,679
of God, and we will reign on earth. So the

680
00:41:46,800 --> 00:41:50,679
Church begins the reign according to Relation five, when he ascended.

681
00:41:51,480 --> 00:41:53,239
So remember, a lot of people make a mistake, a

682
00:41:53,239 --> 00:41:56,800
lot of well meaning evangelicals and even perhaps Orthodox they

683
00:41:56,840 --> 00:41:58,800
read this passage and they think it's the second Coming.

684
00:41:58,960 --> 00:42:02,280
It's not the second Coming. It's the ascension. The ascension

685
00:42:02,360 --> 00:42:04,800
is when He has given this right to rule in

686
00:42:04,880 --> 00:42:07,199
the midst of his enemies in the church. And that's,

687
00:42:07,199 --> 00:42:09,880
by the way, what Psalm two said. Psalm two says

688
00:42:09,880 --> 00:42:14,880
the Messiah would write rule by the roight of his mouth.

689
00:42:15,599 --> 00:42:18,280
The church fathers almost always unanimously interpret that as the

690
00:42:18,320 --> 00:42:22,360
preaching of the Gospel right, Why are the nations raised

691
00:42:22,400 --> 00:42:24,760
and the people plot a vain thing? The kings of

692
00:42:24,800 --> 00:42:28,119
their set themselves against the Lord and against his Messiah, saying,

693
00:42:28,440 --> 00:42:30,480
let us break their bands and cast away the yoke.

694
00:42:31,000 --> 00:42:33,400
But he who sits in the heavens shall laugh. That's

695
00:42:33,400 --> 00:42:35,920
the ascension. He will mock them and speak to them

696
00:42:35,920 --> 00:42:39,079
in his wrath on his holy hill of Zion, the

697
00:42:39,199 --> 00:42:43,559
heavenly Zion. The Lord has decreed you are my son. Today.

698
00:42:43,599 --> 00:42:46,079
I've begotten you, ask of me, and I give the

699
00:42:46,159 --> 00:42:49,679
nations to you as your inheritance. That's the ascension. It's

700
00:42:49,679 --> 00:42:51,199
not the second Coming. Right.

701
00:42:52,280 --> 00:42:54,840
Speaker 2: The next line of criticism that we get from these

702
00:42:55,159 --> 00:42:59,400
deconstructing my Christianity types is really you kind of basic

703
00:42:59,440 --> 00:43:02,960
bitch arguements regarding the Odyssey. And so I've I've found

704
00:43:03,039 --> 00:43:06,559
four that was brought up multiple times in a cursory

705
00:43:06,639 --> 00:43:11,239
scroll through TikTok thousands of videos, and one is the

706
00:43:11,280 --> 00:43:13,440
first one is the Great Flood. So they claim that

707
00:43:13,519 --> 00:43:17,239
can you how can you worship a god of unlimited love,

708
00:43:17,400 --> 00:43:20,760
eternal love, who then flooded the world and killed people

709
00:43:20,920 --> 00:43:24,320
and animals and babies and women. So that's reference to

710
00:43:24,719 --> 00:43:29,679
Genesis six through nine, And the other ones are the

711
00:43:29,760 --> 00:43:33,280
bear attack, which is so common about the boys being

712
00:43:33,320 --> 00:43:38,280
attacked by a bear. That's second Kings or fourth Kingdoms,

713
00:43:38,280 --> 00:43:41,599
depending on which Bible you have, and then the Canaanites

714
00:43:41,639 --> 00:43:44,719
being punished by Israel. Look at I saw one person

715
00:43:44,960 --> 00:43:48,360
describe it as like, look at your vengeful God that

716
00:43:48,400 --> 00:43:52,639
he will even use like people who aren't part of

717
00:43:52,679 --> 00:43:55,519
his n group to attack his own people and kill them.

718
00:43:55,599 --> 00:43:57,880
I mean, what a what a horrendous entity. And then

719
00:43:57,920 --> 00:44:02,679
they'll use then they'll flip it, use Deuteronomy twenty and

720
00:44:02,719 --> 00:44:07,400
talking about God commanding the Israelites to abolish the Moloch worshippers,

721
00:44:07,440 --> 00:44:09,920
and then say, oh, can you believe your God tells

722
00:44:10,320 --> 00:44:13,360
the chosen people to kill their enemies. So they use

723
00:44:13,440 --> 00:44:16,000
this both ways to try to justify how God is

724
00:44:16,079 --> 00:44:19,599
evil and immoral, basically based on the same moral standards

725
00:44:19,599 --> 00:44:21,039
that Christianity puts forth.

726
00:44:22,159 --> 00:44:25,119
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's several different things going on here. So first

727
00:44:25,280 --> 00:44:28,360
is the issue of problem of evil to the Odyssey itself,

728
00:44:28,840 --> 00:44:33,360
which is of course not necessarily an objection. I understand

729
00:44:33,400 --> 00:44:36,920
why people would perhaps think this is an objection, And

730
00:44:37,000 --> 00:44:40,400
if I were to steel man the opposition, I guess

731
00:44:40,440 --> 00:44:43,599
the Odyssey might be the best that they have to offer,

732
00:44:44,199 --> 00:44:45,960
not so much in the case of like the Conquest

733
00:44:46,000 --> 00:44:47,519
of Canaan or in this kind of stuff. I don't

734
00:44:47,559 --> 00:44:50,360
actually think those are very good arguments, but just the

735
00:44:50,400 --> 00:44:53,880
existence of evil itself why God permitted it. But if

736
00:44:53,880 --> 00:44:56,239
you think about it really strictly logically speaking, it doesn't

737
00:44:56,280 --> 00:45:00,360
actually pose a problem for Christianity, because there's not If

738
00:45:00,440 --> 00:45:02,920
Christianity is true in the world of Christianity, God's not

739
00:45:03,000 --> 00:45:06,719
under any obligation to tell us the reasons why He

740
00:45:06,760 --> 00:45:10,440
permitted everything. So while we might not like it, it

741
00:45:10,519 --> 00:45:13,719
might might not be easy, it's not really any kind

742
00:45:13,719 --> 00:45:17,599
of an actual logical problem for Christianity. If God has

743
00:45:17,639 --> 00:45:20,719
his own reasons by which he permits evil, in his

744
00:45:21,280 --> 00:45:24,599
infinite knowledge right which he knows how to bring greater

745
00:45:24,639 --> 00:45:28,159
goods out of, that doesn't actually pose a logical problem

746
00:45:28,159 --> 00:45:29,880
for Christianity. We might not like it, might be a

747
00:45:29,880 --> 00:45:36,079
tough pill to swallow, But when an atheist criticizes Christianity,

748
00:45:36,440 --> 00:45:38,480
if we think about tag that, they don't really have

749
00:45:38,519 --> 00:45:41,119
a basis to say that that's wrong anyway. I mean,

750
00:45:41,159 --> 00:45:43,760
on what basis is actually wrong to say that, you know,

751
00:45:44,239 --> 00:45:48,239
God the evil. God permitted evil to exist. Okay, but

752
00:45:48,480 --> 00:45:51,440
what's your basis for evil to begin with? You don't

753
00:45:51,480 --> 00:45:54,199
have any you know, coherent argument for that at all.

754
00:45:54,280 --> 00:45:56,199
It's if you're an atheist or something like that. Or

755
00:45:56,320 --> 00:45:58,480
and I would venture to say ninety nine percent of

756
00:45:58,480 --> 00:46:02,480
these deconstructionist p people deconstructing their Christianity they wouldn't be

757
00:46:02,480 --> 00:46:06,199
able to give any coherent account of right and wrong either.

758
00:46:06,960 --> 00:46:08,760
But if you read the Book of Job too, right,

759
00:46:08,760 --> 00:46:10,440
I mean, that's kind of what Joe, what God says

760
00:46:10,480 --> 00:46:12,480
to Job. It's like, that's the whole purpose of that

761
00:46:12,519 --> 00:46:15,199
book is dealing with grappling with the problem of evil.

762
00:46:15,599 --> 00:46:17,880
And the answer at the end is essentially that, well, look,

763
00:46:17,920 --> 00:46:21,880
if you don't know all of the infinite relationships between

764
00:46:21,920 --> 00:46:24,800
the created order and how that works, how are you

765
00:46:24,800 --> 00:46:28,320
going to be able to understand something even higher than that,

766
00:46:28,760 --> 00:46:31,760
God's knowledge of things like the existence of evil and

767
00:46:31,800 --> 00:46:35,280
wise permitted. And the answer is simply that you can't

768
00:46:35,320 --> 00:46:38,079
even understand that at this point. So again, we might

769
00:46:38,119 --> 00:46:41,719
not like that, but it's not really like a logical

770
00:46:42,079 --> 00:46:45,960
defeater for Christianity. Now, to be a little more precise

771
00:46:46,039 --> 00:46:48,920
about the let's start with the Conquest of Kanaan. I

772
00:46:48,960 --> 00:46:51,920
actually talking about the bears. James Jordan has a really

773
00:46:51,960 --> 00:46:54,559
good book on the Judges. It's a commentary I read

774
00:46:54,599 --> 00:46:56,840
many years ago, and I think he has a really

775
00:46:56,880 --> 00:46:59,440
good explanation of this, which is that if you look

776
00:46:59,480 --> 00:47:02,280
at the words, it doesn't necessarily mean absolutely like young children.

777
00:47:02,599 --> 00:47:06,480
This is more like a gang of like harassing teenagers

778
00:47:06,639 --> 00:47:12,119
or just youths that are harassing somebody who has anointed

779
00:47:12,159 --> 00:47:16,360
authority from God. So this is a tremendous like they're

780
00:47:16,400 --> 00:47:20,199
they're actually mocking somebody who's appointed as one of God's anointed.

781
00:47:20,679 --> 00:47:23,920
So it's an a facing of It's like a middle

782
00:47:23,960 --> 00:47:28,039
finger too God and his authority. So no, it actually

783
00:47:28,079 --> 00:47:30,840
does make sense that if you're gonna, you know, mock

784
00:47:31,239 --> 00:47:35,079
God's prophets, has anointed that is actually worthy of death

785
00:47:35,119 --> 00:47:37,320
in the Old Testament, and we can understand why because

786
00:47:37,719 --> 00:47:40,159
when you tolerate that kind of a thing in a society,

787
00:47:41,079 --> 00:47:46,280
it allows for there to be more rebellion. Right even

788
00:47:46,320 --> 00:47:48,920
in the Middle Ages, for example, one of the reasons

789
00:47:48,960 --> 00:47:53,599
that they had a lot of strict laws for heretical

790
00:47:53,679 --> 00:47:58,280
groups and sects was because it also had a social effect.

791
00:47:58,360 --> 00:48:03,519
If you allowed the heretical group to propagate in Catholic societies,

792
00:48:03,519 --> 00:48:07,559
for example in the Latin West, it actually was a

793
00:48:07,599 --> 00:48:10,519
basis for social disorder and revolution. And this is actual

794
00:48:10,559 --> 00:48:13,119
where communism. Communism comes out of some of these medieval

795
00:48:13,880 --> 00:48:16,360
you come if you're these kind of sectarian groups that

796
00:48:16,400 --> 00:48:20,159
are allowed eventually to propagate and they overthrow the order,

797
00:48:20,320 --> 00:48:22,920
so they're dangerous to the social order. And it was

798
00:48:22,920 --> 00:48:27,519
true even back then. You know, God says to Saul,

799
00:48:27,639 --> 00:48:30,679
rebellion is as the sin of witchcraft. And so just

800
00:48:30,719 --> 00:48:32,920
as it was wrong for Salt to rebel, and Saul

801
00:48:33,039 --> 00:48:36,239
ends up guilty of you know, worthy of death, God

802
00:48:36,280 --> 00:48:38,280
eventually puts Saul to death by handing him over to

803
00:48:38,280 --> 00:48:43,719
his sins. He commits suicide. Likewise, to deface and speak

804
00:48:43,760 --> 00:48:48,800
to a prophet this way is actually rebelling against God himself.

805
00:48:49,119 --> 00:48:52,079
It's as the sin of witchcraft. And so there's more

806
00:48:52,079 --> 00:48:56,119
like a gang of like hoods, it's not like a

807
00:48:56,119 --> 00:48:59,440
bunch of four year olds. So and James Jordan has

808
00:48:59,440 --> 00:49:01,760
a good argument for that on the basis of the

809
00:49:01,760 --> 00:49:04,760
Hebrew word in his book on Judges. But now a

810
00:49:04,760 --> 00:49:07,719
little bit more information you have to understand too, And

811
00:49:07,760 --> 00:49:11,199
I didn't actually realize this until fairly recently rereading Genesis.

812
00:49:11,599 --> 00:49:14,760
If you go back and read the story of Malkisadak,

813
00:49:15,559 --> 00:49:21,960
Malchisadak is a priest of God right most I in Salem.

814
00:49:22,400 --> 00:49:28,599
That's Jeru Salem, so prior to the Canaanites whatever is

815
00:49:28,639 --> 00:49:32,400
going on there, there is an existing priesthood. It's a

816
00:49:32,480 --> 00:49:38,039
he's a gentile in Salem, Jerusalem Canaan's land. It's a

817
00:49:38,239 --> 00:49:42,599
property of the Righteous, prior to the Canaanites and the Jevisites.

818
00:49:43,280 --> 00:49:46,599
So when David, Joshua and David are told to conquer

819
00:49:46,599 --> 00:49:52,000
the land, it is a reconquest of God's righteous people's land.

820
00:49:52,119 --> 00:49:54,559
It is not a theft of the land from the Pagans.

821
00:49:55,039 --> 00:49:57,760
And I would say ninety nine percent of the atheist

822
00:49:57,760 --> 00:50:01,119
reddit people who make this argument don't understand that, first

823
00:50:01,159 --> 00:50:04,239
of all, these wicked people took it from the righteous.

824
00:50:04,280 --> 00:50:07,039
And if you read the Genesis narrative, it explains that

825
00:50:07,079 --> 00:50:11,519
because Psalm seventy six two says that Salem is identical

826
00:50:11,599 --> 00:50:15,480
too the Salem of Genesis with Malkisadak, right, he's a

827
00:50:15,519 --> 00:50:21,159
priest to God in Salem, it's identified as Jerusalem. It

828
00:50:21,239 --> 00:50:24,519
is Zion. Psalm seventy six two says in Judah God

829
00:50:24,559 --> 00:50:27,599
is known, his name is great in Israel, in Salem.

830
00:50:27,679 --> 00:50:31,440
Also is his tabernacle his dwelling place in Zion. So

831
00:50:31,519 --> 00:50:34,920
and we also read that blessed the Abraham of God,

832
00:50:35,000 --> 00:50:37,480
most High, possessor of Heaven and Earth. Right, that's just

833
00:50:37,480 --> 00:50:41,880
in Genesis fourteen. So when Abraham blesses Malchisadak, when he

834
00:50:41,960 --> 00:50:47,760
tithes to him, he's submitting to the as Paul argues

835
00:50:47,800 --> 00:50:52,320
in Hebrews seven, the superiority of the Melchizedekian priesthood to

836
00:50:52,400 --> 00:50:56,039
the ironic because the ironic priesthood is in Abraham in

837
00:50:56,119 --> 00:51:02,360
his loins. Right, So Abraham tithing to Malchisada is an

838
00:51:02,440 --> 00:51:06,159
example of deference to the greater. The lesser ties to

839
00:51:06,239 --> 00:51:12,320
the greater. That means the previous existing gentile priesthood belkista

840
00:51:12,400 --> 00:51:16,119
dek is superior to the ironic Jewish priesthood. That's the

841
00:51:16,239 --> 00:51:18,599
argument of the Book of Hebrews in chapter seven. Now

842
00:51:18,679 --> 00:51:24,280
that would infuriate Jews, but that's the logic that assuming

843
00:51:24,360 --> 00:51:27,360
Paul wrote it right. Paul's arguing in a Hebrews seven,

844
00:51:27,400 --> 00:51:31,800
but very few people know or have realized that it

845
00:51:31,880 --> 00:51:33,960
was already the property the righteous. By the way, this

846
00:51:34,000 --> 00:51:37,880
explains why and how. I remember, I never could figure

847
00:51:37,880 --> 00:51:40,920
out how is Jethro a priest? The only way to

848
00:51:40,920 --> 00:51:42,599
be a priest if you think about it in terms

849
00:51:42,639 --> 00:51:45,000
of like you know, Old Testament Moses, like you have

850
00:51:45,039 --> 00:51:49,880
to be a descenat of Aaron, right, that's the only priesthood. Well, no,

851
00:51:50,039 --> 00:51:53,760
actually there's another priesthood, the priesthood of Malkisa. That and

852
00:51:53,840 --> 00:51:57,239
so Jethro is a priest to God as well. How

853
00:51:57,599 --> 00:52:01,880
because there's righteous people outside of the Jews who even

854
00:52:01,880 --> 00:52:04,840
have a priesthood and who can call upon God all

855
00:52:04,880 --> 00:52:06,760
the way back to Genesis, for they built an altar

856
00:52:06,920 --> 00:52:09,880
called upon the Lord. They're not Jews.

857
00:52:12,440 --> 00:52:13,559
Speaker 2: So I mean we pretty.

858
00:52:13,400 --> 00:52:19,480
Speaker 3: Much am apologize all that to say that when the

859
00:52:19,800 --> 00:52:25,280
land is then taken by these wicked people, namely the Canaanites,

860
00:52:25,320 --> 00:52:29,519
the Jebusites, the hit Sites, the Parasites, Hevites, et cetera.

861
00:52:30,000 --> 00:52:34,679
Leviticus eighteen, that entire chapter is a long explanation of

862
00:52:34,920 --> 00:52:38,360
how wicked these people were. And they were not just

863
00:52:38,800 --> 00:52:42,559
wicked people who stole the land of Jerusalem from the Righteous,

864
00:52:42,559 --> 00:52:45,880
from Melchizede, they were so wicked that they were pushing

865
00:52:45,960 --> 00:52:49,880
essentially every degenerous that you could think of the worst

866
00:52:49,880 --> 00:52:53,119
possible things. And then God, as you pointed out, warns

867
00:52:53,159 --> 00:52:57,920
the Jews, you better not accept their practices or else

868
00:52:57,960 --> 00:52:59,679
I will vomit you out of the land. So there's

869
00:52:59,679 --> 00:53:02,400
not two different standards. It's the same standard for them

870
00:53:02,440 --> 00:53:04,320
and for the Jews. In fact, the Jews are held

871
00:53:04,360 --> 00:53:07,119
to a higher standard because they have more. You know,

872
00:53:07,159 --> 00:53:10,320
too much is given, much is required. Right. So if

873
00:53:10,360 --> 00:53:13,840
you read Joshua two eight through eleven, it talks about

874
00:53:13,880 --> 00:53:19,440
how these people were such a continual hampering of God's

875
00:53:19,480 --> 00:53:22,880
people that the reason that God gave them the right

876
00:53:22,960 --> 00:53:25,960
to get rid of that group of people was precisely

877
00:53:26,039 --> 00:53:30,199
because of the necessity to preserve the Jewish people for

878
00:53:30,360 --> 00:53:34,519
the production of the Messiah. Right, and so because they're

879
00:53:34,559 --> 00:53:38,039
the group that was chosen by God to produce the Messiah,

880
00:53:38,960 --> 00:53:41,880
God is getting rid of the people that might pose

881
00:53:41,880 --> 00:53:45,480
a threat or might exterminate that lineage. Remember exactly what

882
00:53:45,559 --> 00:53:48,760
does Pharaoh want to do. He wants to exterminate the Jews.

883
00:53:49,079 --> 00:53:52,119
He wants to exterminate the first born to make sure

884
00:53:52,159 --> 00:53:53,920
that why he doesn't he might not even know this,

885
00:53:54,000 --> 00:53:57,960
but he's satanically inspired, just like Herod is, to ensure

886
00:53:58,000 --> 00:54:00,000
that there will not be a Messiah born to the Jews.

887
00:54:00,719 --> 00:54:04,400
So that's why they want to exterminate Jews in the

888
00:54:04,440 --> 00:54:07,239
Old Testament period, and that's why God says, okay, well,

889
00:54:07,239 --> 00:54:09,719
the people that try to exterminate you, you're going to exterminate

890
00:54:09,760 --> 00:54:14,400
those lineages. Now, what about the unfairness of the infants

891
00:54:14,440 --> 00:54:17,239
and getting rid of all of their women and their children.

892
00:54:17,440 --> 00:54:20,519
The reason for this is because if you read Genesis,

893
00:54:20,920 --> 00:54:25,119
it talks about in Justis fifteen that the Amorites and

894
00:54:25,119 --> 00:54:27,880
the hit Sites and all these different people, their iniquity

895
00:54:28,000 --> 00:54:31,719
must be filled up to the measure, and it says

896
00:54:31,760 --> 00:54:33,760
it'll before God tells Abraham, it will be four hundred

897
00:54:33,840 --> 00:54:36,559
years before your people come and take this land. So,

898
00:54:36,599 --> 00:54:39,039
in other words, God is so patient with the wicked

899
00:54:39,039 --> 00:54:43,360
people he gives them four hundred years to stop being

900
00:54:43,400 --> 00:54:45,639
that way. And other passages, by the way in the

901
00:54:45,639 --> 00:54:49,000
Old Testament make it clear that God has also demonstrated

902
00:54:49,039 --> 00:54:52,960
his power and his presence even to those people. Right that,

903
00:54:53,119 --> 00:54:56,639
so after four hundred years, if those generations were still

904
00:54:56,679 --> 00:54:59,800
that wicked, then it was right to get rid of them,

905
00:54:59,800 --> 00:55:02,639
and God knew that they would not repent, even their

906
00:55:02,679 --> 00:55:06,079
children would not repent, because the previous four hundred years

907
00:55:06,119 --> 00:55:09,079
of their children had not repented, right, right, And so

908
00:55:09,280 --> 00:55:12,480
that's the justification for why God says these people need

909
00:55:12,519 --> 00:55:15,199
to be removed. And you might, we could even argue

910
00:55:15,239 --> 00:55:18,039
as Orthodox because of the doctrine of the descent of

911
00:55:18,119 --> 00:55:21,760
Christ and Hades, it's still not even hopeless for these people,

912
00:55:21,840 --> 00:55:25,039
because it's possible that some of these people hear the

913
00:55:25,039 --> 00:55:28,719
gospel when Jesus preaches the Gospel to the dead. So

914
00:55:29,239 --> 00:55:31,360
all of these things, I think help us to understand

915
00:55:31,440 --> 00:55:36,039
that it's not just randomly God saying go kill all

916
00:55:36,079 --> 00:55:38,480
the people in Palestine and take the land.

917
00:55:39,000 --> 00:55:39,199
Speaker 2: Right.

918
00:55:39,519 --> 00:55:43,480
Speaker 3: That's how like when you would like Muslims or Palestinians,

919
00:55:43,480 --> 00:55:45,679
when they bring up these texts, they don't give any

920
00:55:45,719 --> 00:55:48,280
of this context. They just say, you know, the Jewish

921
00:55:48,360 --> 00:55:51,519
God is evil. He says to kill the children and everything.

922
00:55:51,760 --> 00:55:55,559
You know, the wicked Pagans of that time stole this

923
00:55:55,719 --> 00:55:59,039
land from Alchisa dec and the righteous who were not Jews.

924
00:55:58,840 --> 00:56:02,119
Speaker 2: They were dentials and as you pointed out, the abominations

925
00:56:02,159 --> 00:56:09,079
that they were advancing, I mean child sacrifice, homosexuality, sodomy,

926
00:56:09,360 --> 00:56:13,119
all types of wickedness is what leads to, again the

927
00:56:13,400 --> 00:56:16,639
annihilation of sodom and Gomora, which I'm sure somebody has

928
00:56:16,760 --> 00:56:19,679
highlighted about on TikTok. I didn't catch one, but I

929
00:56:19,679 --> 00:56:23,519
could see easily based on the quality of deconstruction and

930
00:56:23,559 --> 00:56:29,079
criticism them highlighting the annihilation of Sodomon Gomora being indicative

931
00:56:29,119 --> 00:56:33,400
of the evil sky Daddy of the Old Testament killing

932
00:56:33,440 --> 00:56:35,039
trans and gays.

933
00:56:35,760 --> 00:56:40,320
Speaker 3: Yeah. Well, the reason if you read Samuel the reason

934
00:56:40,400 --> 00:56:45,679
that and first Samuel fifteen and then Exodus seventeen and

935
00:56:45,760 --> 00:56:49,039
then Douter on Me twenty five. The reason for this

936
00:56:49,920 --> 00:56:53,199
strict rule here is that remember what the Amali Kites

937
00:56:53,239 --> 00:56:56,239
did to you when you were leaving Egypt. You were weary,

938
00:56:56,360 --> 00:56:58,440
you were worn out. Yet when they met you on

939
00:56:58,480 --> 00:57:01,199
your journey, they cut you off and they killed the

940
00:57:01,239 --> 00:57:03,639
women and the children that were lagging behind. They did

941
00:57:03,719 --> 00:57:06,360
this because they had no fear of God. So God

942
00:57:06,559 --> 00:57:09,800
is doing eye for an eye to these people because

943
00:57:09,840 --> 00:57:11,559
of their wicked practices.

944
00:57:11,400 --> 00:57:15,760
Speaker 2: And ultimately causing the fear of God to be instilled

945
00:57:15,800 --> 00:57:17,199
in them to call them to repentance.

946
00:57:18,800 --> 00:57:21,000
Speaker 3: Well, yeah, I mean, but I think that the reason

947
00:57:21,039 --> 00:57:23,280
he would be telling the Jews to cut off the

948
00:57:23,320 --> 00:57:26,480
women and the children is that God knows that even

949
00:57:26,559 --> 00:57:31,400
another even this next generation, will not repent. Right, But

950
00:57:31,880 --> 00:57:34,639
even if the possibility of repentance were there for that

951
00:57:34,719 --> 00:57:38,840
generation that's being cut off, there is the possibility that,

952
00:57:38,960 --> 00:57:41,039
you know, especially if it's like women and children or

953
00:57:41,039 --> 00:57:44,239
something like that. You know, Cyril says, the Gospels preached

954
00:57:44,320 --> 00:57:46,119
to the dead and the Old Testament, like all those

955
00:57:46,159 --> 00:57:48,960
dead the Old Testament have the Gospel preached them when

956
00:57:49,039 --> 00:57:50,280
Christ descends in the Hades.

957
00:57:51,519 --> 00:57:51,760
Speaker 5: Right.

958
00:57:52,360 --> 00:57:56,400
Speaker 2: I think that pretty much summarizes the theodicy debate, of

959
00:57:56,440 --> 00:57:58,920
which we'll probably see a few when we start. Everybody's

960
00:57:58,960 --> 00:58:00,800
asking us to look at tick talk. We will in

961
00:58:00,840 --> 00:58:02,960
just a minute. We just have really one more section

962
00:58:03,119 --> 00:58:06,480
to go through here, and that's there. There may another

963
00:58:06,559 --> 00:58:10,320
major criticism of these deconstructionist types is calling into question

964
00:58:10,440 --> 00:58:15,800
the Holy Trinity and and claiming so Arian christologies, claiming

965
00:58:15,880 --> 00:58:19,679
Christ isn't God incarnate, claiming that the Trinity is a

966
00:58:19,679 --> 00:58:24,239
Hellenic invention, which McClellan makes that claim in his his

967
00:58:24,360 --> 00:58:27,719
Big book. I have it pulled up. It's it's a

968
00:58:27,760 --> 00:58:32,920
free pdf online, but I have a few passages, just

969
00:58:33,000 --> 00:58:35,519
highlighting the presence. And you have way more than I do,

970
00:58:35,639 --> 00:58:39,119
so I'll just refer to you in regards to Old

971
00:58:39,159 --> 00:58:42,719
Testament and New Testament references to the Holy Trinity. This

972
00:58:42,840 --> 00:58:47,159
isn't some innovation that occurred when the Scripture was put

973
00:58:47,199 --> 00:58:51,440
together or during the councils or something like this, as

974
00:58:51,519 --> 00:58:55,280
these people claim. It's some type of Hellenic philosophical infusion

975
00:58:55,400 --> 00:59:05,000
with Old Testament Judaism. Okay, So for a few references,

976
00:59:05,039 --> 00:59:07,719
I just grabbed a few references in the New Testament,

977
00:59:08,639 --> 00:59:11,639
first ones being the baptismal formula. You can look at

978
00:59:11,880 --> 00:59:16,159
Matthew twenty eight nineteen clearly a reference to the Holy Trinity.

979
00:59:17,039 --> 00:59:21,519
Matthew three sixteen through seventeen. Jesus' baptism himself is clearly

980
00:59:21,760 --> 00:59:26,119
a representation and expression of the presence of the Holy Trinity.

981
00:59:26,960 --> 00:59:31,480
Tewod Corinthians thirteen fourteen. The Pauline Benediction is clear reference

982
00:59:31,519 --> 00:59:35,280
to the Holy Trinity. And in John John's replete with it.

983
00:59:35,360 --> 00:59:38,360
And I just grabbed three verses John one one through fourteen.

984
00:59:38,559 --> 00:59:42,239
Obviously in the beginning was the logos, The logos was

985
00:59:42,320 --> 00:59:46,599
with God. The logos is God. John fourteen sixteen through seventeen,

986
00:59:46,920 --> 00:59:49,639
and John fifteen sixteen. Those are just a few references

987
00:59:49,679 --> 00:59:52,760
within the New Testament, and you have, as you've said,

988
00:59:52,760 --> 00:59:54,599
way more in the Old Testament. I just grabbed a

989
00:59:54,599 --> 00:59:59,119
few that these people refused to address. Genesis won twenty

990
00:59:59,159 --> 01:00:01,400
six made an our image. I mean, right there at

991
01:00:01,440 --> 01:00:03,960
the very beginning of Genesis, we see the presence of

992
01:00:04,000 --> 01:00:06,280
the Holy Trinity in regard to the creation of man.

993
01:00:07,079 --> 01:00:11,360
In Genesis eighteen Abraham's visitors, which obviously we have an

994
01:00:11,559 --> 01:00:18,199
icon expression expressing the presence of the Holy Trinity. Exodus

995
01:00:18,239 --> 01:00:21,480
three two through six, Judges thirteen, Angel of the Lord

996
01:00:21,519 --> 01:00:25,639
and all the Christophanes that are present within there. Genesis

997
01:00:25,719 --> 01:00:30,079
one two, Judges six thirty four, the Spirit of God

998
01:00:30,360 --> 01:00:34,559
being present, Proverbs eight twenty two through thirty one. The

999
01:00:34,559 --> 01:00:41,840
personification of Wisdom is another indication. Psalm thirty three six

1000
01:00:42,079 --> 01:00:47,199
Trinity present and creation itself again. And Isaiah six one

1001
01:00:47,199 --> 01:00:50,400
through eight. We have Isaiah's vision of the Trinity. And

1002
01:00:50,480 --> 01:00:54,039
we can also find to demonstrate that it wasn't some innovation.

1003
01:00:54,159 --> 01:00:59,519
Three hundred years after Christ. Saint Ignatius is Antioch justin

1004
01:00:59,599 --> 01:01:04,400
Martyr Irenaeus Trutulian even origin all speak directly about worshiping

1005
01:01:04,440 --> 01:01:10,840
a trinity, a trinitarian God, not some general monad or

1006
01:01:10,840 --> 01:01:13,639
something of that sort, or just the Father, and having

1007
01:01:13,679 --> 01:01:17,840
these sort of minor demi urges of Christ and the

1008
01:01:17,880 --> 01:01:21,960
Holy Spirit and so. And then the liturgical practice here

1009
01:01:21,960 --> 01:01:24,239
in the church, in the Orthodox Church, it's evidence in

1010
01:01:24,280 --> 01:01:26,639
the prayers, it's evidence in the hymns, it's evidence in

1011
01:01:26,679 --> 01:01:30,360
the baptismal rites and those pre existed. Even the putting

1012
01:01:30,360 --> 01:01:34,360
together of scripture and the canon so part of the

1013
01:01:34,480 --> 01:01:37,679
oral tradition. I've yet to see anybody in these deconstructing

1014
01:01:37,679 --> 01:01:41,679
my Christianity even address the existence of an oral tradition

1015
01:01:42,079 --> 01:01:43,760
before the putting of scripture together.

1016
01:01:46,280 --> 01:01:49,800
Speaker 3: Yeah, I would say agreed. Genesis one. But then Genesis

1017
01:01:49,840 --> 01:01:52,880
four or three, they heard the voice of the Lord,

1018
01:01:53,159 --> 01:01:54,599
the God walking in the garden.

1019
01:01:55,639 --> 01:01:56,039
Speaker 6: You have.

1020
01:01:59,239 --> 01:02:08,679
Speaker 3: The Genesis twelve when Abraham is cold. That's also a

1021
01:02:08,719 --> 01:02:22,039
theophany too, because it says that in verse seven, the

1022
01:02:22,159 --> 01:02:26,760
Lord God appeared to Abraham and said, to your seat,

1023
01:02:26,800 --> 01:02:29,840
I will give this land, and Abraham built an altar.

1024
01:02:29,920 --> 01:02:32,800
So you notice right there there's liturgical worship and there's

1025
01:02:32,840 --> 01:02:37,599
a theophany of an appearance very early to Abraham. This

1026
01:02:37,679 --> 01:02:39,760
is sighted, by the way, if you read the Summer Book,

1027
01:02:39,920 --> 01:02:42,800
Benjamin Sommer actually goes through all of these and Genesis

1028
01:02:42,840 --> 01:02:46,119
to where it's not just theophanies, but there's actual places

1029
01:02:46,159 --> 01:02:51,880
and objects that are already becoming sanctified and holy. For example,

1030
01:02:52,119 --> 01:02:55,880
when God appears at the Oak of Memory, when Jacob

1031
01:02:55,920 --> 01:02:59,800
rests his head, they anoint the stone, there's a holy

1032
01:03:00,440 --> 01:03:03,239
holy tree. This is all throughout the just even the

1033
01:03:03,239 --> 01:03:07,039
book of Genesis. So we have to I'm not criticizing you,

1034
01:03:07,119 --> 01:03:10,360
but it's like this is when you're really careful in

1035
01:03:10,400 --> 01:03:13,400
the reading of the Old Testament, especially Genesis, this stuff

1036
01:03:13,440 --> 01:03:17,599
is everywhere. For example, Jenesis fifteen, when Abraham God makes

1037
01:03:17,639 --> 01:03:20,280
it coming up with Abraham, it says, the word of

1038
01:03:20,280 --> 01:03:24,320
the Lord came to Abraham. Do not be afraid. I

1039
01:03:24,360 --> 01:03:29,360
am your reward. Immediately the voice said, I am the

1040
01:03:29,400 --> 01:03:33,920
one right. The voice of God said that this one

1041
01:03:33,920 --> 01:03:36,039
shall not be your air, but the one who shall

1042
01:03:36,039 --> 01:03:38,360
come from your body shall be your air, talking about

1043
01:03:38,360 --> 01:03:44,159
of course, Isaac. But the passage then has this mysterious

1044
01:03:45,079 --> 01:03:49,480
presence of when the sun went down, there was a flame,

1045
01:03:50,079 --> 01:03:55,000
and behold, a smoking oven appeared and lamps and fire

1046
01:03:55,159 --> 01:03:58,360
passed through the pieces of the animals that were cut.

1047
01:03:58,679 --> 01:04:02,760
And if you read ezek you'll one verse thirteen, the

1048
01:04:02,840 --> 01:04:06,079
same description is used of the cherubim when the son

1049
01:04:06,119 --> 01:04:09,760
of Man is is present in Genesis one. Ezekiel one

1050
01:04:10,039 --> 01:04:11,559
one like a son of Man, the face of the

1051
01:04:11,559 --> 01:04:14,440
glory of God is writing the chariot. That's Jesus, that's

1052
01:04:14,480 --> 01:04:16,920
telling us that if I know my Old Testament really well,

1053
01:04:17,440 --> 01:04:21,519
the same oven and lamps, fire, lamps that pass through

1054
01:04:22,480 --> 01:04:26,239
in this, in this theophany, it's the same son of

1055
01:04:26,280 --> 01:04:29,519
God that's present in Ezekiel one. The lamps tells you

1056
01:04:29,559 --> 01:04:30,960
that if you know what, you know what I'm talking about,

1057
01:04:30,960 --> 01:04:35,800
that it's not it's not the ancient aliens. Right when

1058
01:04:36,559 --> 01:04:40,840
he sees the wheels and he sees the cherub it's

1059
01:04:40,880 --> 01:04:43,880
not ancient aliens. It's the It's a theophany, and it's

1060
01:04:43,920 --> 01:04:48,880
the same. Yes, it's the same theophany that appears to

1061
01:04:48,960 --> 01:04:52,760
Abraham and justis fifteen and passes through the cut animals.

1062
01:04:52,800 --> 01:04:55,199
Now again, moving on, I'm not going to do all these,

1063
01:04:55,239 --> 01:04:58,599
but there's so many of these. The Hagar text is

1064
01:04:58,599 --> 01:05:01,440
so important in Genesis sixteen because it's not just the

1065
01:05:01,440 --> 01:05:06,000
alphanies that are appearing to Abraham. The theophany appears to Hagar.

1066
01:05:06,559 --> 01:05:09,960
Because Hagar, after the Angel the Lord appears, she says,

1067
01:05:10,039 --> 01:05:15,119
I saw God face to face. Who's the face of Yahweh? Well,

1068
01:05:15,159 --> 01:05:19,119
guess what you mentioned? That passage in Judges six with Gideon.

1069
01:05:20,320 --> 01:05:22,639
Sommer brings us up because he says, the Hebrew text

1070
01:05:22,639 --> 01:05:27,039
actually reads and Yahweh turned his face to Gideon in

1071
01:05:27,079 --> 01:05:33,079
the in Judges six twenty two to twenty five. How

1072
01:05:33,119 --> 01:05:37,280
does Yahweh have a face? You see what I'm saying. Yeah,

1073
01:05:37,599 --> 01:05:41,920
as you said, yeah, the meal with Abraham and this

1074
01:05:42,119 --> 01:05:44,800
is eighteen. But you have to keep in mind, like

1075
01:05:45,519 --> 01:05:47,920
the last time I read Genesis, I missed a bunch

1076
01:05:47,960 --> 01:05:50,800
of the alphonies. There's a theophany in Genesis twenty four.

1077
01:05:50,880 --> 01:05:55,480
The Angel Lord appear again to Isaac. In the situation

1078
01:05:55,519 --> 01:05:59,039
with Isaac and Rebecca, they call the well where this

1079
01:05:59,079 --> 01:06:05,039
appearance happened, the well of vision, vision of what of God?

1080
01:06:05,320 --> 01:06:07,800
It's the well of vision, the well where you see God.

1081
01:06:08,719 --> 01:06:11,320
It's so obvious when you go back and read these passages,

1082
01:06:11,360 --> 01:06:14,519
it's like, wait a minute, of course God appears. He

1083
01:06:14,559 --> 01:06:18,239
appears all the time. Genesis twenty six, the Lord appeared

1084
01:06:18,280 --> 01:06:25,119
to him, to Isaac and said, right, there's another theopeny

1085
01:06:25,239 --> 01:06:28,239
in Genesis twenty six twenty three. Then the Lord went

1086
01:06:28,360 --> 01:06:31,000
up there to the well of Oath and appeared that

1087
01:06:31,119 --> 01:06:34,239
same night. And so he built an altar there at

1088
01:06:34,280 --> 01:06:36,599
the well, the well of oath, the well of the Covenant.

1089
01:06:37,599 --> 01:06:41,880
So next one Genesis twenty eight, the well of Oath.

1090
01:06:42,440 --> 01:06:45,000
So he came to a certain place, and he took

1091
01:06:45,079 --> 01:06:48,719
one of the stones where he lay his head, and behold,

1092
01:06:48,760 --> 01:06:53,960
he dreamt and saw the ladder right, and he anointed

1093
01:06:53,960 --> 01:06:58,760
the oil, and annointed the stone, and poured oil on

1094
01:06:58,840 --> 01:07:03,039
the pillar, and called it the gate of Heaven. So

1095
01:07:03,400 --> 01:07:07,000
again we have stones and images there, because this is

1096
01:07:07,039 --> 01:07:15,280
going to be where he rustles right Jacob ladder right right, Well.

1097
01:07:15,239 --> 01:07:18,280
Speaker 2: And to the point, I would just grab in again

1098
01:07:18,440 --> 01:07:21,519
like seven seven sections of the Old Testament, a handful

1099
01:07:21,519 --> 01:07:23,239
from the New Testament, just to make the point. But

1100
01:07:23,280 --> 01:07:28,320
as you're demonstrating, well, there's only a few more if

1101
01:07:28,360 --> 01:07:30,480
you're ahead, don't go ahead.

1102
01:07:30,079 --> 01:07:33,079
Speaker 3: Because just Genesis alone is so packed with these. And

1103
01:07:33,079 --> 01:07:35,079
by the way we did for those that are interested,

1104
01:07:35,119 --> 01:07:36,760
I have an older talk where I do a lot

1105
01:07:36,760 --> 01:07:40,239
of Old Testament Trinitarian references, and I have that more

1106
01:07:40,239 --> 01:07:43,920
recent talk about just in the Torah all the trinitarian references.

1107
01:07:43,960 --> 01:07:46,039
But this is just Genesis. As we can move through

1108
01:07:46,079 --> 01:07:46,840
these pretty quickly.

1109
01:07:47,079 --> 01:07:47,239
Speaker 2: Now.

1110
01:07:47,280 --> 01:07:50,079
Speaker 3: They call the place in Genesis twenty eight where you

1111
01:07:50,159 --> 01:07:52,239
have this vision of the ladder and he sees the

1112
01:07:52,280 --> 01:07:55,679
angels of God is sinding and descending upon this throne

1113
01:07:55,960 --> 01:08:01,039
or ascuse me upon this. Uh, it's Jacob's vision of

1114
01:08:01,159 --> 01:08:04,960
Jacob's latter in Genesis twenty eight, and he anoints the

1115
01:08:07,000 --> 01:08:09,440
stone there, which is a symbol of Christ. Christ is

1116
01:08:09,440 --> 01:08:13,480
obviously the stone. But they call that place Bethel House

1117
01:08:13,519 --> 01:08:15,719
of God. How could it be the house of God

1118
01:08:15,800 --> 01:08:19,119
if God didn't manifest and be there in time and

1119
01:08:19,159 --> 01:08:22,560
in space right as you read through Genesis. Clearly that's

1120
01:08:22,600 --> 01:08:26,840
what's happening. Genesis thirty one, I am I am the

1121
01:08:26,840 --> 01:08:30,840
God of Jacob appears, who appeared to you at Bethel

1122
01:08:31,079 --> 01:08:33,319
when you anointed the pillar and made a vow to me.

1123
01:08:33,800 --> 01:08:37,159
So God again appears, this time to Jacob when he

1124
01:08:37,199 --> 01:08:41,119
flees Laban, and he says, I am the Angel and God.

1125
01:08:41,840 --> 01:08:44,439
So notice the angel is calling himself God. In Genesis

1126
01:08:44,520 --> 01:08:48,600
thirty one, Verses twelve to thirteen, another thing oftening. So

1127
01:08:48,680 --> 01:08:51,560
again moving through these, the Angel is called God again

1128
01:08:51,640 --> 01:08:56,079
in Genesis thirty two, what do you know about my name?

1129
01:08:56,560 --> 01:08:59,199
Why do you ask me my name? Jacob called that

1130
01:08:59,279 --> 01:09:03,479
place form of God, for he saw God face to face,

1131
01:09:03,560 --> 01:09:07,079
and his soul was saved. The form of God then

1132
01:09:07,199 --> 01:09:12,680
passed by Genesis thirty two, form of God, face of God.

1133
01:09:13,159 --> 01:09:17,119
Genesis thirty five, another theophany, I am God, I am

1134
01:09:17,159 --> 01:09:19,800
your God. And then God ascended up from that place

1135
01:09:19,800 --> 01:09:21,760
where he talked to him in a pillar, and Jacob

1136
01:09:21,760 --> 01:09:25,000
set up a pillar. So again Jacob at Bethel, again

1137
01:09:25,279 --> 01:09:28,880
God appears Genesis thirty five. We're almost done. But I mean,

1138
01:09:28,960 --> 01:09:31,560
just Genesis is so full of Dudu's great.

1139
01:09:32,039 --> 01:09:33,960
Speaker 2: An even realize how many Genesis had.

1140
01:09:34,319 --> 01:09:37,880
Speaker 3: This holy spirit is spoken of even Pharaoh. When Jacob

1141
01:09:38,079 --> 01:09:41,840
Joseph is in Egypt, Pharaoh says, the spirit of God

1142
01:09:41,920 --> 01:09:44,319
is in this man. So even Pharaoh seems to be

1143
01:09:44,359 --> 01:09:48,239
aware of the discincsion between Yahweh and the spirit that

1144
01:09:48,319 --> 01:09:52,960
Saint Joseph. Yeah, and then we get to again Genesis

1145
01:09:53,319 --> 01:09:58,279
forty six, Jacob journeys to Egypt. Now when Jacob took

1146
01:09:58,319 --> 01:10:00,399
this journey with all that he had. He to the

1147
01:10:00,439 --> 01:10:02,520
will of oath, and he offered a sacrifice to the

1148
01:10:02,520 --> 01:10:05,399
goddess father Isaac. And then God spoke to him in

1149
01:10:05,399 --> 01:10:07,319
a vision of the night and said, I am the

1150
01:10:07,319 --> 01:10:09,359
God of your father. So again he sees him, sees

1151
01:10:09,399 --> 01:10:11,640
God again. And by the way, sometimes it's seeing in

1152
01:10:11,680 --> 01:10:14,840
a vision and a dream, and sometimes it's an actual appearance. Right,

1153
01:10:14,840 --> 01:10:17,239
so both, it's not either or its both. And then

1154
01:10:17,279 --> 01:10:19,079
the key tacts that I want to end with is

1155
01:10:19,880 --> 01:10:22,239
this is really important in Genesis because this lets us

1156
01:10:22,279 --> 01:10:25,760
know that this angel messenger that they keep interacting with

1157
01:10:25,800 --> 01:10:28,399
and they keep seeing in all these different locations and

1158
01:10:28,439 --> 01:10:33,520
places all throughout Genesis. Genesis forty eight, it says God,

1159
01:10:33,560 --> 01:10:36,600
who before my father Abraham and Isaac were well pleasing,

1160
01:10:36,800 --> 01:10:39,279
the God who has fed me my entire life, the

1161
01:10:39,439 --> 01:10:43,239
Angel who redeemed me from my evils. So the Angel

1162
01:10:43,359 --> 01:10:47,039
is called the Redeemer. Remember in Exodus, we're not going

1163
01:10:47,079 --> 01:10:49,720
to go through the Exodus passages. But remember in Exodus,

1164
01:10:49,760 --> 01:10:54,319
in Exodus twenty three and thirty three, the same appearance,

1165
01:10:54,600 --> 01:10:55,720
the same being in.

1166
01:10:55,760 --> 01:11:01,920
Speaker 7: The burning bush, and act is twenty three, God says

1167
01:11:02,199 --> 01:11:05,560
you better obey this angel, because he will not forgive

1168
01:11:05,600 --> 01:11:09,800
your sins if you don't, or my name Yahweh is

1169
01:11:09,800 --> 01:11:10,399
in him.

1170
01:11:11,119 --> 01:11:13,520
Speaker 3: Angels can't redeem, they can't say.

1171
01:11:17,359 --> 01:11:20,039
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's that's a really good one to end on.

1172
01:11:20,399 --> 01:11:23,880
Now that's just Genesis, so and yeah, that's that was amazing.

1173
01:11:24,439 --> 01:11:27,039
I wasn't even I need to reread Genesis because I

1174
01:11:27,119 --> 01:11:30,119
wasn't even conscious of all the different Theophanes present, but

1175
01:11:30,359 --> 01:11:34,159
just within Genesis. But the last little section I had

1176
01:11:34,199 --> 01:11:38,479
before we dive into some of these TikTok deconstructionists is

1177
01:11:38,960 --> 01:11:43,560
the Messianic prophecies. So, utilizing this rabbinic line of argument,

1178
01:11:44,680 --> 01:11:47,199
I just have seven, and I'm sure you probably have

1179
01:11:47,239 --> 01:11:50,840
a lot more, just points in which Christ actually fulfills

1180
01:11:50,880 --> 01:11:54,159
the Messianic prophecies of the Old Testament, and so a

1181
01:11:54,199 --> 01:11:57,640
few of them here. The first one is the Messiah's

1182
01:11:57,640 --> 01:12:00,399
birth of a virgin. We can find this and Isaiah

1183
01:12:00,439 --> 01:12:05,640
seven fourteen. Another one Bethlehem as the birthplace of Christ

1184
01:12:06,039 --> 01:12:11,399
Micah five to two, Isaiah fifty three, the Suffering Servant. Obviously,

1185
01:12:11,479 --> 01:12:15,239
Christ's resurrection and his suffering for the sins of humanity

1186
01:12:15,680 --> 01:12:21,199
clearly fits that structure. Zachariah ninety nine, the triumphal entry

1187
01:12:21,239 --> 01:12:26,079
into Jerusalem, which again we see with Christ being fulfilled,

1188
01:12:26,319 --> 01:12:29,840
is president in the Old Testament. Zachariah eleven twelve through thirteen,

1189
01:12:29,880 --> 01:12:32,880
the betrayal for thirty pieces of silver, so clearly referencing

1190
01:12:32,960 --> 01:12:37,319
Judas's betrayal of Christ in the incarnate God, that's right

1191
01:12:37,359 --> 01:12:40,680
there in Zachariah, Psalm twenty two sixteen, the piercing of

1192
01:12:40,760 --> 01:12:44,159
the hands and the feet of the Messiah. Well, the

1193
01:12:44,199 --> 01:12:47,760
crucifixion of Christ clearly fulfills that. And then the last

1194
01:12:47,760 --> 01:12:50,520
one that I just had just grabbing seven was Psalm

1195
01:12:50,720 --> 01:12:54,159
sixteen ten. Isaiah fifty three ten through eleven is the

1196
01:12:54,199 --> 01:13:00,079
Messiah's resurrection. And so all these things together signify that

1197
01:13:00,279 --> 01:13:03,680
Jesus Christ fulfills the prophecies of the Messiah and the

1198
01:13:03,680 --> 01:13:07,000
Old Testament. And this idea that they can take this

1199
01:13:07,079 --> 01:13:11,920
rabbinic line of thought and somehow then kind of play

1200
01:13:12,000 --> 01:13:13,960
games with both the New and the Old Testament, it

1201
01:13:14,039 --> 01:13:17,159
just doesn't line up, because if you're taking the New

1202
01:13:17,199 --> 01:13:19,640
Testament at face value, some of these people are now

1203
01:13:19,760 --> 01:13:24,119
non believers. But clearly it's demonstrating that Christ fulfills all

1204
01:13:24,159 --> 01:13:26,560
these prophecies that were present in the Old Testament.

1205
01:13:27,680 --> 01:13:30,920
Speaker 3: Yeah, there's so many of these. I mean again, it's difficult.

1206
01:13:31,720 --> 01:13:35,079
I've got just one page here of And remember it's

1207
01:13:35,119 --> 01:13:38,560
not just specifically prophecies that only relate to the person

1208
01:13:38,600 --> 01:13:41,680
of the Messiah and his work, but also all of

1209
01:13:41,720 --> 01:13:45,039
the passages of prophecies that, for example, relate to the

1210
01:13:45,159 --> 01:13:50,960
Gentile Church. Because once the Gentiles begin to turn to Yahweh,

1211
01:13:51,319 --> 01:13:53,640
which again, if you think about, it would seem totally

1212
01:13:54,399 --> 01:13:57,079
just insane to any Jew in the Old Testament. Right,

1213
01:13:57,279 --> 01:14:00,720
if you're Isaiah, You're think about Daniel. Daniel is being

1214
01:14:00,720 --> 01:14:03,119
told that the Gentiles are going to believe in the

1215
01:14:03,159 --> 01:14:06,880
God of Israel, of Yahweh, I mean, Daniel's being taken

1216
01:14:06,920 --> 01:14:10,039
off into battlelony captivity. Israel's been going to be destroyed, right,

1217
01:14:10,840 --> 01:14:13,159
So just imagine how insane it would be to like,

1218
01:14:13,239 --> 01:14:15,359
He's thinking, what, how in the world are all these

1219
01:14:15,399 --> 01:14:18,880
awful pagan people going to be turning to the God

1220
01:14:18,880 --> 01:14:21,119
of Israel. It's just it doesn't make any It just

1221
01:14:21,119 --> 01:14:25,239
seems implausible. Right, Isaiah too, because Isaiah, Isaiah is really

1222
01:14:25,239 --> 01:14:28,199
important because Isaiah, as many people have said over the years,

1223
01:14:28,319 --> 01:14:31,600
it's the fifth Gospel. There's so many things about Christ,

1224
01:14:31,960 --> 01:14:35,800
just in the Book of Isaiah, from chapter two all

1225
01:14:35,880 --> 01:14:37,920
the way to chapter to the very end, right to

1226
01:14:38,159 --> 01:14:43,039
sixty five sixty six. But here, for example, is just

1227
01:14:43,159 --> 01:14:45,600
one page, and people can screenshot this that they want to.

1228
01:14:46,079 --> 01:14:49,560
Just a list of Messianic prophecies up here and then

1229
01:14:50,399 --> 01:14:54,079
passages down here that relate to the Gentile Church. So

1230
01:14:54,159 --> 01:14:56,239
if you want to screenshot that, if you can zoom in,

1231
01:14:56,279 --> 01:14:57,760
I don't know, you mney I'll be able to see it.

1232
01:14:58,880 --> 01:15:01,760
But here's a whole list people want that, And then

1233
01:15:01,880 --> 01:15:04,520
I've got another list in the Bible. In my Bible,

1234
01:15:05,319 --> 01:15:07,920
this one might be really hard to see, but because

1235
01:15:07,920 --> 01:15:10,399
I'm always adding new ones, because I'm discovering these all

1236
01:15:10,399 --> 01:15:12,960
the time. But this is this is references to the

1237
01:15:13,039 --> 01:15:16,800
Gentile Church. And by extension, these are also all references

1238
01:15:16,840 --> 01:15:21,039
and predictions of the Messiah and the Messianic Age. So

1239
01:15:21,199 --> 01:15:24,279
if you drop those down, and if you want to

1240
01:15:24,279 --> 01:15:26,560
look all those up, there's tons of them in the Psalms,

1241
01:15:26,640 --> 01:15:29,720
tons of them in Isaiah, tons of them in the

1242
01:15:29,880 --> 01:15:33,079
you know, the minor prophets. You can go from there

1243
01:15:33,119 --> 01:15:36,640
and you'll see, you know, look, this is not like again,

1244
01:15:36,680 --> 01:15:38,239
I think a lot of people that aren't familiar with

1245
01:15:38,239 --> 01:15:41,439
the Old Testament, they think of this like, oh, they've

1246
01:15:41,520 --> 01:15:44,159
you know, Christians, they've got like one or two passages

1247
01:15:44,199 --> 01:15:46,760
that they have to really squeeze into being Jesus. No, no, no,

1248
01:15:47,600 --> 01:15:50,279
there's there's hundreds, right.

1249
01:15:50,880 --> 01:15:54,720
Speaker 2: Yeah, So again this is kind of the What we've

1250
01:15:54,760 --> 01:15:59,520
just did is provide basically the contours of this deconstructioning

1251
01:15:59,560 --> 01:16:02,359
my Christian either basic what tends to be the main

1252
01:16:02,479 --> 01:16:06,880
themes of their arguments, using rabbinic lines of argument in

1253
01:16:06,880 --> 01:16:10,319
regards to Christ not fulfilling it or the Orthodox Church

1254
01:16:10,399 --> 01:16:13,760
not fulfilling its role as the New Israel, a theodicy

1255
01:16:13,960 --> 01:16:16,079
that big sky Daddy is so mean, and look at

1256
01:16:16,079 --> 01:16:19,880
all these injustices in the Old Testament questioning the Holy

1257
01:16:19,920 --> 01:16:24,720
Trinity and the divinity of Christ, and then obviously from there,

1258
01:16:24,880 --> 01:16:30,199
questioning Christ's status as the Messiah. So we basically were

1259
01:16:30,239 --> 01:16:34,760
now an hour and fifteen sixteen in, we've covered basically

1260
01:16:35,079 --> 01:16:38,479
the arguments that we're going to see and if there's

1261
01:16:38,479 --> 01:16:40,399
anything else you want to say before we kind of

1262
01:16:40,399 --> 01:16:42,840
pull up some of this nonsense and have have have

1263
01:16:43,000 --> 01:16:45,840
some laughs. I think that's what everybody's waiting for.

1264
01:16:46,399 --> 01:16:47,600
Speaker 3: No, ready, you can go on.

1265
01:16:48,239 --> 01:16:52,479
Speaker 2: So here is this is one lady that's really prominent

1266
01:16:52,600 --> 01:16:56,720
on TikTok. Her name's no Nonsense Spirituality and as you

1267
01:16:56,720 --> 01:16:59,119
can see here, I just pulled up her most popular tiktoks.

1268
01:16:59,119 --> 01:17:02,279
We're talking about three point five million, one point six million,

1269
01:17:02,399 --> 01:17:05,279
two point eight million, one point eight million, six point

1270
01:17:05,359 --> 01:17:10,039
seven million. She gets massive views and engagement two point

1271
01:17:10,039 --> 01:17:13,359
three million down here on these tiktoks where she believes that.

1272
01:17:13,640 --> 01:17:18,319
So she's a spiritual director and nihilism coach specializing in

1273
01:17:18,399 --> 01:17:26,800
tools of the void. And Dan McClellan he's the other

1274
01:17:26,840 --> 01:17:29,039
one that he will make sure to tell you. He's

1275
01:17:29,039 --> 01:17:32,079
a biblical scholar and he's actually a progressive Mormon. We

1276
01:17:32,119 --> 01:17:35,159
talked a little bit about him over on Jay's stream,

1277
01:17:35,640 --> 01:17:39,880
and you pull up his instagram as as Jay Highlight

1278
01:17:40,039 --> 01:17:42,720
last time, every single and this was just posted five

1279
01:17:42,760 --> 01:17:48,920
hours ago. He lifts up his super or his Action figures,

1280
01:17:48,960 --> 01:17:53,159
superhero t shirts and he has Funko pops. There's videos

1281
01:17:53,199 --> 01:17:54,800
on his YouTube where you can see he has a

1282
01:17:54,800 --> 01:17:57,600
whole thing of Funko pops behind him. And he is

1283
01:17:57,640 --> 01:18:02,800
a progressive. He is pretty soft on you know, sexual

1284
01:18:02,840 --> 01:18:05,960
immorality and stuff. Like that, and what he doesn't tell

1285
01:18:06,000 --> 01:18:08,680
you and he doesn't show anywhere, but if you dig

1286
01:18:08,760 --> 01:18:12,039
deep enough, you'll find he is a Mormon, Christian, or

1287
01:18:12,079 --> 01:18:15,720
not even Christian, a Mormon and presents himself as an

1288
01:18:15,800 --> 01:18:20,479
expert on christiananity because of his academic scholastic abilities and

1289
01:18:20,560 --> 01:18:23,279
deconstructing the Old Testament and the New Testament. So he

1290
01:18:23,359 --> 01:18:26,800
presents himself as some type of ultimate Christian scholar when

1291
01:18:26,840 --> 01:18:28,720
he himself is some progressive Mormon.

1292
01:18:31,000 --> 01:18:34,600
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's really weird. I mean, and I've been seeing

1293
01:18:34,600 --> 01:18:37,279
a lot more Mormon stuff popping up very lately, and

1294
01:18:37,359 --> 01:18:40,520
I've been seeing more and more interactions with Mormons. I

1295
01:18:40,520 --> 01:18:44,439
had last few open debates, I've had a multiple Mormons

1296
01:18:44,439 --> 01:18:47,960
calling in. So, you know, it's just weird to see,

1297
01:18:48,039 --> 01:18:52,680
you know, the push via the Tait sneakosphere, Islam suddenly everywhere. Now,

1298
01:18:52,680 --> 01:18:56,239
Mormonism is everywhere through TikTok. So I think TikTok's playing

1299
01:18:56,239 --> 01:18:56,960
a key role in this.

1300
01:18:57,319 --> 01:19:00,880
Speaker 2: No, I definitely agree with that. And over on TikTok

1301
01:19:01,199 --> 01:19:02,920
there's another guy and he has a YouTube channel. It's

1302
01:19:02,920 --> 01:19:05,279
not very big, it's not even four thousand subs. It's

1303
01:19:05,279 --> 01:19:08,800
called The Deconstruction zone, and if you go to his TikTok,

1304
01:19:10,319 --> 01:19:13,560
he I mean he gets pretty good videos in regards

1305
01:19:13,600 --> 01:19:16,000
to the views. I'm not saying their quality videos, but

1306
01:19:16,199 --> 01:19:19,399
I mean thousands of views here two hundred and twenty

1307
01:19:19,399 --> 01:19:22,920
five thousand, seven hundred and eight thousand, and so AC

1308
01:19:23,159 --> 01:19:25,279
mentioned that he's kind of a prominent voice in here,

1309
01:19:25,319 --> 01:19:28,720
so we may watch a few of his and he

1310
01:19:28,960 --> 01:19:31,880
has put together this playlist that I guess is pretty

1311
01:19:31,880 --> 01:19:35,520
popular on TikTok in regards to people referencing on prophecy

1312
01:19:35,640 --> 01:19:40,239
fails and so like this one is Isaiah seven fourteen,

1313
01:19:40,279 --> 01:19:43,680
a prophecy fulfilled by Jesus, So we can check that

1314
01:19:43,720 --> 01:19:45,840
one out if we want to start with just some

1315
01:19:45,880 --> 01:19:46,399
of these.

1316
01:19:54,920 --> 01:19:55,239
Speaker 3: Come on.

1317
01:20:02,039 --> 01:20:04,920
Speaker 8: Is the property of Isaiah seven fourteen, about the young

1318
01:20:04,960 --> 01:20:09,479
woman conceiving and bearing a child, about Jesus or about

1319
01:20:09,520 --> 01:20:12,359
the time of a has It says again the Lord

1320
01:20:12,399 --> 01:20:15,880
spoke to AHAs asked the Lord your god for a sign,

1321
01:20:15,960 --> 01:20:16,600
whether in the.

1322
01:20:16,560 --> 01:20:18,640
Speaker 3: Deepest depths or the highest heights.

1323
01:20:18,680 --> 01:20:21,439
Speaker 9: But Ah has said, I will not ask, I will

1324
01:20:21,479 --> 01:20:25,119
not put the Lord to the test. Then Isaiah said, here, now,

1325
01:20:25,720 --> 01:20:28,680
you house of David. Is it not enough to try

1326
01:20:28,680 --> 01:20:32,800
the patience of humans, will you try the patience of God. Also,

1327
01:20:33,399 --> 01:20:36,000
therefore the Lord himself will give you a sign. The

1328
01:20:36,079 --> 01:20:39,720
virgin will conceive and give birth to his son and

1329
01:20:39,800 --> 01:20:44,800
will call him Emmanuel. Okay, this is clearly a sign

1330
01:20:44,960 --> 01:20:47,399
for a Has. There is a woman who is going

1331
01:20:47,479 --> 01:20:50,680
to conceive. Whether it's here's a virgin or a young woman,

1332
01:20:50,880 --> 01:20:53,880
the translation of that particular word is irrelevant in this

1333
01:20:53,920 --> 01:20:57,319
particular argument. This has nothing to do with a future

1334
01:20:57,359 --> 01:21:01,720
Messiah and everything to do with a sign specifically given

1335
01:21:01,840 --> 01:21:05,359
to King a Has. This is not about Jesus.

1336
01:21:06,119 --> 01:21:09,439
Speaker 3: Well, this is just fundamental ignorance of the way biblical

1337
01:21:09,479 --> 01:21:14,399
typology and symbology works. It's not in either or. The

1338
01:21:14,439 --> 01:21:17,520
whole idea is that the sign in the day of

1339
01:21:17,600 --> 01:21:21,359
Isaiah would also be a sign of the Messiah. This

1340
01:21:21,439 --> 01:21:23,479
is why in the New Testament, for example, you'll read

1341
01:21:23,720 --> 01:21:26,520
the passage I think it's early on in Matthew where

1342
01:21:26,520 --> 01:21:30,920
it says out of Egypt, right, my son came up

1343
01:21:30,920 --> 01:21:34,119
out of Egypt. Well, there's not actually a pastor specifically

1344
01:21:34,159 --> 01:21:38,600
that says that exactly, but it's referring to Israel as

1345
01:21:38,680 --> 01:21:42,319
God's son coming up out of Egypt, right, And it's

1346
01:21:42,359 --> 01:21:45,199
making a parallel to the Holy Family coming out of

1347
01:21:45,199 --> 01:21:50,399
Egypt when they fled the persecution. So it's just ignorance

1348
01:21:50,439 --> 01:21:53,520
of the way that biblical symbology works, where it can

1349
01:21:53,560 --> 01:21:54,960
be a both and and it doesn't have to be

1350
01:21:55,000 --> 01:21:56,520
in either or right.

1351
01:21:57,000 --> 01:22:00,279
Speaker 2: I love his lisp too. Right, we talked about.

1352
01:22:00,039 --> 01:22:04,279
Speaker 3: Wait a minute, but you'll know, Like, for example, in

1353
01:22:04,520 --> 01:22:08,520
Matthew two, it says, when he arose, this is Joseph.

1354
01:22:08,560 --> 01:22:10,359
When he rose, he took the child and his mother

1355
01:22:10,439 --> 01:22:12,680
by nine the party for Egypt, and he was there

1356
01:22:12,760 --> 01:22:14,720
until the death of Herod, that he might be that

1357
01:22:14,840 --> 01:22:16,960
might be fulfilled what was spoken to the prophet out

1358
01:22:17,000 --> 01:22:22,079
of Egypt I called my son right, So that if

1359
01:22:22,119 --> 01:22:25,239
you read Hoseiah eleven to one, it's talking about Israel

1360
01:22:25,359 --> 01:22:29,399
being brought out of captivity of the Egyptians. So this

1361
01:22:29,560 --> 01:22:33,840
is telling us the New Testament apostolic hermeneutic does not

1362
01:22:33,960 --> 01:22:37,800
restrict these types of references to what's called the grammatical

1363
01:22:38,039 --> 01:22:43,159
historical interpretation. So and not. The irony is that these

1364
01:22:43,159 --> 01:22:46,640
people pull from Jews, But Jews don't even restrict all

1365
01:22:46,760 --> 01:22:49,039
readings to grammatical historical Do you know what I mean

1366
01:22:49,079 --> 01:22:54,359
by grammatical historical? Right, that's the immediate sense of the text,

1367
01:22:54,479 --> 01:22:58,399
and the immediate reference and context and audience. So who

1368
01:22:58,479 --> 01:23:02,000
is Isaiah talking to, who's his immediate audience, what's the

1369
01:23:02,039 --> 01:23:06,439
immediate context. But even Jews believe in what's called pardaise

1370
01:23:06,600 --> 01:23:09,920
p A R D E s. That's their four senses

1371
01:23:09,960 --> 01:23:12,600
of the text. So it's not even the jew judaic

1372
01:23:12,680 --> 01:23:16,760
position to think that there's only the grammatical historical sense

1373
01:23:16,760 --> 01:23:17,279
of the text.

1374
01:23:18,000 --> 01:23:22,239
Speaker 2: And it seems like here he then is talking about

1375
01:23:22,239 --> 01:23:25,319
Matthew two fifteen is not a fulfillment of Jose eleven

1376
01:23:25,319 --> 01:23:25,560
to one.

1377
01:23:26,359 --> 01:23:28,640
Speaker 3: Yeah, but that's my point, is like, it's not if

1378
01:23:28,680 --> 01:23:31,279
you have his assumption of only grammatic exactly.

1379
01:23:31,880 --> 01:23:33,399
Speaker 2: That's what I was getting ready to say, is that

1380
01:23:33,439 --> 01:23:35,680
you just nailed it, because he's already has a video

1381
01:23:35,840 --> 01:23:37,920
right here discussing what you just brought up.

1382
01:23:38,720 --> 01:23:47,920
Speaker 3: Now look at this. This is again the irony. I'm

1383
01:23:47,920 --> 01:23:49,720
gonna give you, give you a little a link you

1384
01:23:49,720 --> 01:23:53,399
can look at here, all right, So this is just

1385
01:23:53,640 --> 01:23:57,439
well known Jewish Jewish exegesus. So if you take a

1386
01:23:57,439 --> 01:24:01,239
look at that right there, it'll show you that these

1387
01:24:01,239 --> 01:24:04,319
people aren't even really being consistent with the way Jews

1388
01:24:04,399 --> 01:24:08,960
exegete their own texts. And that's ironic because both Jews

1389
01:24:10,239 --> 01:24:16,000
click the one that's a exe Jesus. Their method here,

1390
01:24:16,039 --> 01:24:18,479
and it's not just cobblists. Other people do this too,

1391
01:24:19,319 --> 01:24:23,119
of part as it's a fourfold sense and it's and

1392
01:24:23,159 --> 01:24:29,479
it's a Jewish adaptation of the way that Christianity eventually

1393
01:24:29,680 --> 01:24:31,840
came up with a fourfold sense of the text. There's

1394
01:24:31,840 --> 01:24:35,279
a literal meaning, there's the allegorical meaning, there's the moral meaning,

1395
01:24:35,560 --> 01:24:40,560
there's the eschological or anagogical meaning. That's our fourth senses

1396
01:24:40,560 --> 01:24:42,800
in the Christian tradition. And this is not just a

1397
01:24:42,800 --> 01:24:46,479
medieval Latin thing. It also exists, say Maximus talks about

1398
01:24:46,479 --> 01:24:49,239
the four senses of scripture. So there's nothing foreign to

1399
01:24:50,039 --> 01:24:54,039
orthodox Christianity with these ideas. But you'll just notice that, well,

1400
01:24:54,039 --> 01:24:55,680
wait a minute, I thought you were if you're going

1401
01:24:55,720 --> 01:24:58,600
to use the rabbinic ex of Jesus, the rabbinic ext

1402
01:24:58,640 --> 01:25:01,279
of Jesus is not grammatically historical only it's not just

1403
01:25:01,319 --> 01:25:07,239
that first sense, right, So they're being arbitrary when they

1404
01:25:07,319 --> 01:25:09,920
when that utilizing these principles.

1405
01:25:10,039 --> 01:25:14,079
Speaker 2: Absolutely, we'll just click one more in this little playlist.

1406
01:25:14,560 --> 01:25:19,439
This one's got the twenty four hundred views here and

1407
01:25:19,479 --> 01:25:24,079
this is about. This is about Luke one thirty two

1408
01:25:24,079 --> 01:25:28,520
through thirty three. He says failed Bible prophecy. Jesus never

1409
01:25:28,600 --> 01:25:30,760
ruled over the house of Israel or Jacob.

1410
01:25:34,000 --> 01:25:36,479
Speaker 3: Bible prophecy fails. Episode fourteen.

1411
01:25:36,600 --> 01:25:38,760
Speaker 9: This comes straight from the mouth of the angel that

1412
01:25:38,880 --> 01:25:41,800
tells Mary she's going to conceive. In Luke chapter one,

1413
01:25:41,840 --> 01:25:44,680
it says he shall be great and shall be called

1414
01:25:44,680 --> 01:25:47,119
the Son of the Highest, and the Lord God shall

1415
01:25:47,159 --> 01:25:49,640
give on him the throne of his father David, and

1416
01:25:49,680 --> 01:25:53,239
he shall reign over the House of Jacob forever, and

1417
01:25:53,319 --> 01:25:56,640
his kingdom there shall have no end. Now did Jesus

1418
01:25:56,720 --> 01:25:59,199
rule and reign over the house of Jacob forever and

1419
01:25:59,239 --> 01:25:59,840
without end?

1420
01:26:00,199 --> 01:26:01,439
Speaker 5: No, of course he did not.

1421
01:26:01,960 --> 01:26:04,439
Speaker 9: In fact, that his own people unlived him un across

1422
01:26:04,800 --> 01:26:07,439
and then mocked him publicly. And of course I know

1423
01:26:07,520 --> 01:26:09,880
the response to this is that, well, Jesus kingdom is

1424
01:26:09,920 --> 01:26:12,359
not of this world. How convenient is it when he

1425
01:26:12,399 --> 01:26:15,039
doesn't fulfill the prophecy that oh he actually did.

1426
01:26:15,079 --> 01:26:18,159
Speaker 3: It's just in secret and invisible. Sure, sure it is.

1427
01:26:18,239 --> 01:26:23,760
Keep doing yourself that well. I mean again, it's a

1428
01:26:23,840 --> 01:26:27,520
question of whose presuppositions are correct, because the whole New

1429
01:26:27,560 --> 01:26:30,560
Testament has premised on the fact that he did reign

1430
01:26:30,600 --> 01:26:34,239
over the true House of David, the true kingdom, which

1431
01:26:34,359 --> 01:26:37,600
is even according to the Old Testament, the people that

1432
01:26:37,680 --> 01:26:41,000
have the law on their hearts Jeremiah thirty one, or

1433
01:26:41,079 --> 01:26:43,560
I think it's what thirty eight Orthodox Bible. So even

1434
01:26:43,560 --> 01:26:47,560
the Old Testament says that the only true followers of

1435
01:26:47,640 --> 01:26:51,199
Yahweh in the Messianic era will be the ones that

1436
01:26:51,239 --> 01:26:54,680
have it in their heart. That's what the New Covenant

1437
01:26:54,680 --> 01:26:56,680
prophecy says, right.

1438
01:26:57,279 --> 01:27:01,479
Speaker 2: Well, and in our opening we are aready addressed basically

1439
01:27:01,520 --> 01:27:06,760
these these types of criticisms and this quote mining and

1440
01:27:06,800 --> 01:27:11,159
then and then he can't fulfill the Kingdom of Israel

1441
01:27:11,439 --> 01:27:14,880
eternally because he was crucified. I mean, what kind of

1442
01:27:14,880 --> 01:27:16,680
retarded argument that that's.

1443
01:27:16,560 --> 01:27:19,720
Speaker 3: A great point. I didn't even I didn't even catch that, right, Like, yeah, yeah,

1444
01:27:19,920 --> 01:27:23,720
but I mean that's assuming he wasn't resurrected, right, right,

1445
01:27:24,359 --> 01:27:27,439
So yeah, sit at my right hands. Until I sit

1446
01:27:27,479 --> 01:27:30,840
in my right hands, I'll make your en mer fostol. Right.

1447
01:27:31,399 --> 01:27:33,199
Speaker 2: So this is a little bit that was just a

1448
01:27:33,239 --> 01:27:37,840
quick introduction to this deconstruction zone. Apparently he's got some

1449
01:27:39,840 --> 01:27:42,880
got some videos here that.

1450
01:27:42,840 --> 01:27:44,840
Speaker 3: I mean, let's let me give another example where you

1451
01:27:44,920 --> 01:27:46,720
see this kind of stuff like So, for example, in

1452
01:27:47,159 --> 01:27:56,239
Orthodox Bible, Jeremiah thirty seven, uh. In it's verse eight

1453
01:27:56,279 --> 01:28:00,000
and nine, it says, in that day, I will break

1454
01:28:00,199 --> 01:28:03,000
the neck of the chains, and you will no longer

1455
01:28:03,079 --> 01:28:06,920
work for foreigners. You shall work for the Lord your God,

1456
01:28:06,960 --> 01:28:11,800
and I will raise up for them. David, they're king. Now.

1457
01:28:11,880 --> 01:28:14,479
If we were to be silly and absurd the way

1458
01:28:14,520 --> 01:28:19,000
these people will operate, that's a prophecy that literally, David

1459
01:28:19,039 --> 01:28:22,800
will come back and will rule the Jews. No, No,

1460
01:28:23,000 --> 01:28:28,279
David stands for the Massaiah. Right, David and his kingdom

1461
01:28:28,359 --> 01:28:32,359
are embodied in his seed, who will forever sit on God.

1462
01:28:32,399 --> 01:28:34,479
So that's actually the promise to David and the Covenant

1463
01:28:34,520 --> 01:28:38,680
is your seed shall be an everlasting kingdom. Will you

1464
01:28:38,680 --> 01:28:41,560
will never lack one to rule on the throne because

1465
01:28:41,600 --> 01:28:45,960
it's an eternal seed that's ruling on the throne in heaven. Right.

1466
01:28:47,880 --> 01:28:50,439
Speaker 2: I haven't watched this one, but I am very tempted

1467
01:28:50,439 --> 01:28:53,000
to click on it. He says the biblical God failed

1468
01:28:53,039 --> 01:28:57,000
anatomy class. I just want to hear what this retard

1469
01:28:57,039 --> 01:28:59,359
has to say, the.

1470
01:28:59,319 --> 01:29:01,239
Speaker 10: God of the Bible could not have pretty human beings

1471
01:29:01,239 --> 01:29:03,399
because he does not know how female anatomy works, and

1472
01:29:03,439 --> 01:29:05,920
I can prove it from the Bible. In Deuteronomy twenty two,

1473
01:29:06,000 --> 01:29:08,800
God says a legal precedent and says, suppose a man

1474
01:29:08,800 --> 01:29:11,399
marries a woman, but after going into her, dislikes her

1475
01:29:11,399 --> 01:29:14,319
and makes up charges against her sland during her by saying,

1476
01:29:14,920 --> 01:29:16,880
I married this woman, but when I lie with her,

1477
01:29:16,960 --> 01:29:20,079
I do not find evidence of her virginity. The father

1478
01:29:20,159 --> 01:29:22,359
of the young woman and her mother shall submit the

1479
01:29:22,359 --> 01:29:25,039
evidence of the young woman's virginity to the elders at

1480
01:29:25,079 --> 01:29:27,479
the city gate. The first line here is really important

1481
01:29:27,479 --> 01:29:30,560
because it says after going into her he dislikes her.

1482
01:29:30,960 --> 01:29:33,560
This is implying that he's realizing she's not a virgin

1483
01:29:33,640 --> 01:29:34,680
because she didn't lead.

1484
01:29:35,000 --> 01:29:37,079
Speaker 3: And this becomes important as we continue reading.

1485
01:29:37,199 --> 01:29:39,319
Speaker 10: In verse seventeen, they bring the evidence, it says, but

1486
01:29:39,399 --> 01:29:41,399
here is the evidence of my daughter's virginity.

1487
01:29:41,800 --> 01:29:44,079
Speaker 3: Then they will spread out the cloth before the elders

1488
01:29:44,079 --> 01:29:46,760
of the town. And just so we're tracking here, the sheet.

1489
01:29:46,640 --> 01:29:49,680
Speaker 10: Is placed underneath the couple when they consummate their marriage.

1490
01:29:49,760 --> 01:29:51,840
And so if she's a virgin, Theoretically, she would have

1491
01:29:51,920 --> 01:29:53,520
led on the sheet and the parents would have had

1492
01:29:53,560 --> 01:29:55,960
the proof of her virginity, and they would bring it

1493
01:29:56,000 --> 01:29:57,960
to the elders at the city gate. Now, if it

1494
01:29:58,000 --> 01:29:59,920
turns out that they produce the evidence and she was

1495
01:30:00,039 --> 01:30:01,960
in fact in virgin then he'll pay the hundred chuckholds

1496
01:30:01,960 --> 01:30:03,840
and then move on with their life. But if it

1497
01:30:03,840 --> 01:30:06,159
turned out that she wasn't a virgin, look at what

1498
01:30:06,199 --> 01:30:09,479
it says. If, however, this charge is true, the evidence

1499
01:30:09,479 --> 01:30:12,199
of the young women's virginity was not found, then they

1500
01:30:12,199 --> 01:30:14,199
will bring the young woman out to the entrance of

1501
01:30:14,239 --> 01:30:16,720
her father's house and the men of her town will

1502
01:30:16,760 --> 01:30:19,800
stone her until she's un alive. Now, you might be

1503
01:30:19,840 --> 01:30:22,199
thinking that this is a rather harsh punishment for someone

1504
01:30:22,239 --> 01:30:25,000
that delighted about their virginity, and I'm sure it is,

1505
01:30:25,079 --> 01:30:26,560
but that's not the real problem here.

1506
01:30:26,600 --> 01:30:27,640
Speaker 3: The real problem.

1507
01:30:27,279 --> 01:30:30,039
Speaker 10: Here is that only forty five percent of women actually

1508
01:30:30,039 --> 01:30:33,039
believe the first time they do the deed, which means

1509
01:30:33,279 --> 01:30:35,800
a little bit less than half of these women are

1510
01:30:35,840 --> 01:30:40,039
actually guilty. Upon tribe, over half of these women actually

1511
01:30:40,119 --> 01:30:42,920
are innocent, and they will be stoned. And what that

1512
01:30:43,000 --> 01:30:45,319
means is that either God doesn't know how the female

1513
01:30:45,359 --> 01:30:48,359
anatomy works, or he's just an absolute monster.

1514
01:30:50,720 --> 01:30:54,439
Speaker 2: This is the level. This is the level of deconstruction,

1515
01:30:54,600 --> 01:30:59,279
and that's going on on TikTok so apparently because he

1516
01:30:59,359 --> 01:31:05,039
claims that forty percent of women don't bleed that this

1517
01:31:05,119 --> 01:31:08,319
proves that the God of the Old Testament isn't actually

1518
01:31:08,359 --> 01:31:10,800
God because he doesn't know female anatomy.

1519
01:31:12,680 --> 01:31:16,319
Speaker 3: Well, I mean, isn't there the other passage about there

1520
01:31:16,359 --> 01:31:19,279
was also supposed to be like the woman could drink

1521
01:31:20,439 --> 01:31:24,319
a potion to see if the child was hers. In

1522
01:31:24,319 --> 01:31:27,640
other words, there might be a supernatural element involved in

1523
01:31:27,640 --> 01:31:32,119
this too that would help them to identify this, you know,

1524
01:31:32,159 --> 01:31:35,439
the past that I'm talking about where I know thet

1525
01:31:35,479 --> 01:31:38,199
it and she lies about who the father is. They

1526
01:31:38,199 --> 01:31:42,319
can drink this drink and if if the child lives,

1527
01:31:42,439 --> 01:31:49,640
then it was presumably not an illicit birth. But I mean,

1528
01:31:49,680 --> 01:31:52,720
I don't understand why, like there could be there could

1529
01:31:52,760 --> 01:31:55,840
be if we believe in the supernatural, there could be

1530
01:31:55,880 --> 01:32:00,239
a supernatural element to this, which is identifying you know,

1531
01:32:00,840 --> 01:32:05,159
the the legitimate virginity through through the blood or not.

1532
01:32:07,359 --> 01:32:12,239
Speaker 2: Right, well, and even we have no idea the effects

1533
01:32:12,319 --> 01:32:16,800
of you know, for example, using tampons that insert into

1534
01:32:16,880 --> 01:32:20,159
the vagina when modern day women are having sex, and

1535
01:32:20,199 --> 01:32:23,960
he's making that case that they don't bleed to reference

1536
01:32:24,000 --> 01:32:26,520
something in the Bible. We don't know the context of

1537
01:32:26,600 --> 01:32:31,039
how that potentially affects women, just using a sort of scientific,

1538
01:32:31,920 --> 01:32:35,279
more materialistic approach on how times are different. But to

1539
01:32:35,359 --> 01:32:38,680
your point, we also don't know the spiritual elements and

1540
01:32:38,680 --> 01:32:41,720
how these decisions were made. But this is this is

1541
01:32:41,760 --> 01:32:46,760
something that has seven and fourteen likes on TikTok and

1542
01:32:47,000 --> 01:32:49,720
over eighty thousand views.

1543
01:32:49,960 --> 01:32:53,359
Speaker 3: Yeah, I have a really good commentary on Deuteronomy from

1544
01:32:53,399 --> 01:32:56,279
I think is Gordon Wyndham. He does, and he does

1545
01:32:56,279 --> 01:32:59,760
a really good job of going into explanation of a

1546
01:32:59,760 --> 01:33:03,840
lot of passages. He's a famous Old Testament scholar. I

1547
01:33:03,880 --> 01:33:05,520
don't have it with me, though I wish I did,

1548
01:33:05,560 --> 01:33:07,239
because it would be good to see what he says

1549
01:33:07,239 --> 01:33:10,000
on this passage. But it's at the other house. So

1550
01:33:10,159 --> 01:33:11,560
off the top of my head, I'm not sure this

1551
01:33:11,600 --> 01:33:13,279
is one I've not looked at. So this is this

1552
01:33:13,319 --> 01:33:14,640
is one I haven't really looked into.

1553
01:33:17,119 --> 01:33:20,119
Speaker 2: So here's the well I showed Jay this earlier, this

1554
01:33:20,279 --> 01:33:25,119
actual TikTok leaving faith She has twenty three thousand followers,

1555
01:33:25,119 --> 01:33:29,920
and she had some pretty big TikTok's going on. Well,

1556
01:33:29,960 --> 01:33:32,720
apparently she was getting criticism or something because she has

1557
01:33:32,760 --> 01:33:37,039
now privatized her TikTok. So I had all these ready

1558
01:33:37,079 --> 01:33:40,119
to go for today. It was just live a few

1559
01:33:40,199 --> 01:33:42,560
days ago, and now she's privated her accounts. So maybe

1560
01:33:42,560 --> 01:33:45,399
she was getting pushed back and felt some heat. But

1561
01:33:46,840 --> 01:33:49,239
I wanted to play a few of these because these

1562
01:33:49,279 --> 01:33:54,560
are so popular. This woman's TikTok is quite big, so

1563
01:33:54,600 --> 01:34:00,199
I want to play. Let's see she doesn't. Not all

1564
01:34:00,239 --> 01:34:07,880
of them are specifically regarding Christianity. Let me see deconstruction.

1565
01:34:09,640 --> 01:34:11,560
Here we go Christianity.

1566
01:34:12,680 --> 01:34:15,279
Speaker 6: Ways that I am ire, immortal and better than the

1567
01:34:15,359 --> 01:34:19,319
Christian God. When someone wrongs me and is sorry, I

1568
01:34:19,319 --> 01:34:24,560
don't require additional violence or additional scapegoating in order for

1569
01:34:24,640 --> 01:34:28,439
me to say you are forgiven. I've never thrown a

1570
01:34:28,479 --> 01:34:32,840
temper tantrum and flooded the earth. I've never killed Egyptian

1571
01:34:32,880 --> 01:34:36,840
baby boys. If I were a creator, I would have

1572
01:34:36,880 --> 01:34:39,720
a better track record than ninety nine percent of all

1573
01:34:39,760 --> 01:34:44,079
species on Earth going extinct. If I were a creator,

1574
01:34:44,119 --> 01:34:46,840
I would not have created the parasite that lives solely

1575
01:34:46,960 --> 01:34:51,119
to climb into the eyes of children. If I were

1576
01:34:51,119 --> 01:34:53,720
a benevolent god and humans had been on the earth

1577
01:34:53,760 --> 01:34:57,640
for two hundred and fifty thousand years, living in superstition,

1578
01:34:57,960 --> 01:35:01,319
in suffering, dying at the age of like thirty five,

1579
01:35:01,840 --> 01:35:04,920
on the edge of extinction sometimes and living like this

1580
01:35:05,119 --> 01:35:08,279
for two hundred and fifty thousand years, I would not

1581
01:35:08,399 --> 01:35:11,560
have sat silent during all of that time while humans

1582
01:35:11,600 --> 01:35:15,359
were guessing why volcanoes were happening or why the sun

1583
01:35:15,399 --> 01:35:18,840
came up in the morning, and then after about two

1584
01:35:18,960 --> 01:35:22,159
hundred and forty five thousand years, said you know what,

1585
01:35:22,279 --> 01:35:25,560
maybe I'll send some prophets, or maybe I'll send a

1586
01:35:25,640 --> 01:35:28,319
Jesus or a Buddha to kind of come help with this.

1587
01:35:28,680 --> 01:35:32,600
But for two hundred and almost fifty thousand years been

1588
01:35:32,760 --> 01:35:36,079
silent and just watched human suffer at the edge of extinction.

1589
01:35:37,319 --> 01:35:39,680
Speaker 2: If I were I would not.

1590
01:35:40,079 --> 01:35:46,159
Speaker 3: About Geico Caveman like so the like the Hiltdown Man

1591
01:35:46,239 --> 01:35:47,800
and all this kind of stuff. Well, the funny thing

1592
01:35:47,840 --> 01:35:52,800
is that Hiltdown Man Nebraska Man are famous uh frauds.

1593
01:35:52,880 --> 01:35:55,800
So it makes you get to know, where does she

1594
01:35:55,840 --> 01:35:58,159
get the idea that there was like, you know, a

1595
01:35:58,239 --> 01:36:01,640
quarter of a million years of of cavemen. By the way,

1596
01:36:01,680 --> 01:36:06,079
where's all the fossils for this, you know, basically zillions

1597
01:36:06,079 --> 01:36:06,600
of cavemen.

1598
01:36:07,199 --> 01:36:09,880
Speaker 2: Well, and none of it was an actual argument. It's

1599
01:36:09,920 --> 01:36:15,279
just like rhetorical musings and saying, well if I was this, well,

1600
01:36:15,359 --> 01:36:18,800
first of all, the timeline people who actually believe in

1601
01:36:18,840 --> 01:36:21,640
scripture don't believe that we've been here for two hundred

1602
01:36:21,680 --> 01:36:24,279
and fifty some thousand years or whatever, and this whole thing.

1603
01:36:24,319 --> 01:36:28,119
And I have a friend who, let's just say, is

1604
01:36:28,119 --> 01:36:32,920
a scientist, experimental physicist and works for very important places

1605
01:36:32,960 --> 01:36:36,079
like NASA, and he's an Orthodox Christian. He highlights how

1606
01:36:37,039 --> 01:36:41,000
all this scientific worldview of the Big Bang and cosmology

1607
01:36:41,119 --> 01:36:43,880
it's all built on models on top of models on

1608
01:36:43,920 --> 01:36:46,800
top of models, and that experimental physics, which what is

1609
01:36:46,840 --> 01:36:51,239
what he does. Yeah, half life is true, radiocarbon dating

1610
01:36:51,359 --> 01:36:54,039
is real. But beyond this, these extrapolations that they cave

1611
01:36:54,119 --> 01:36:57,840
are total fictions. And his whole point, the reason why

1612
01:36:57,880 --> 01:37:00,399
he does his job for the government, is really to

1613
01:37:00,600 --> 01:37:03,760
undermine theories and do experimental physics to try to bring

1614
01:37:03,800 --> 01:37:06,920
them back to some sort of baseline reality. And we

1615
01:37:07,039 --> 01:37:10,720
talked about creation and the more, according to him, the

1616
01:37:10,720 --> 01:37:13,439
more he does experimental physics. And when you look at

1617
01:37:13,439 --> 01:37:17,199
the history of great physicists, they're all theists. And he

1618
01:37:17,199 --> 01:37:19,960
he says, there's no there's no problem in his worldview

1619
01:37:20,119 --> 01:37:24,720
with creationism and his experience, his understanding of experimental physics,

1620
01:37:24,760 --> 01:37:27,359
and all the works that he does. Right, So this

1621
01:37:27,439 --> 01:37:30,960
whole thing is just rhetoric. It's not even actual arguments,

1622
01:37:31,000 --> 01:37:33,119
and it's sad to see how influential this stuff is.

1623
01:37:33,680 --> 01:37:37,640
Speaker 3: Well, another thing too, is like sometimes the expectation is

1624
01:37:39,239 --> 01:37:42,359
impossible for any worldview. So if the expectation is that

1625
01:37:42,800 --> 01:37:46,439
the Christian worldview gives you exhaustive answers to every problem,

1626
01:37:46,840 --> 01:37:50,359
there's no worldview that can do that. And the Christian

1627
01:37:50,359 --> 01:37:54,279
worldview doesn't propose to give you that. He proposes to

1628
01:37:54,359 --> 01:37:57,239
give you a basis for how you can have knowledge,

1629
01:37:57,560 --> 01:38:00,479
how you can have justified true belief, etc. Terms of

1630
01:38:00,560 --> 01:38:03,760
a paradigm, but there's no promise. So there's no basis

1631
01:38:03,800 --> 01:38:08,880
for you know, everything being you know explained exhaustively, and

1632
01:38:08,920 --> 01:38:10,479
no worldview can do that. So a lot of times

1633
01:38:10,479 --> 01:38:14,960
you'll notice atheists will have unrealistic expectations for the Christian paradigm.

1634
01:38:15,399 --> 01:38:18,600
But to have no expectations for their paradigm or others,

1635
01:38:19,159 --> 01:38:21,439
right and yeah, like jam was saying here, like, well,

1636
01:38:21,439 --> 01:38:23,359
wait a minute, so it's wrong to kill babies. I

1637
01:38:23,439 --> 01:38:24,920
bet you your pro choice.

1638
01:38:26,119 --> 01:38:30,760
Speaker 2: Exactly. I already know that she is, which highlights again

1639
01:38:31,239 --> 01:38:33,840
the point that it really needs people aren't philosophers, but

1640
01:38:33,880 --> 01:38:39,479
deconstructionism itself is a contradicting philosophical disposition, and these people

1641
01:38:39,520 --> 01:38:43,439
constantly contradict themselves. But the point is to really the

1642
01:38:43,439 --> 01:38:45,760
way that we steal man these people at the opening

1643
01:38:45,760 --> 01:38:48,319
of the stream is so much better than their actual

1644
01:38:48,399 --> 01:38:52,600
presentations on TikTok. I mean, this stuff is really low tier.

1645
01:38:55,119 --> 01:39:01,319
And so just like this one has seventy thousand views. Oh,

1646
01:39:01,399 --> 01:39:05,399
this one's deconstructing patriarchy. Oh well, she's an ex Mormon

1647
01:39:05,479 --> 01:39:08,520
right here she says Mormonism, ex Mormon, ex Christian.

1648
01:39:08,680 --> 01:39:10,279
Speaker 3: Yeah, so you notice a lot of these are people

1649
01:39:10,319 --> 01:39:13,159
who are in these weird heretical sects. Can you do

1650
01:39:13,199 --> 01:39:18,520
the patriarchy one? I'd like, yeah, yeah, this is.

1651
01:39:18,479 --> 01:39:20,479
Speaker 4: Still a little bit wrong. But I just got off

1652
01:39:20,479 --> 01:39:23,600
with a client who's recovering from religion, and usually in

1653
01:39:23,640 --> 01:39:25,279
a client it's not about me at all.

1654
01:39:25,439 --> 01:39:26,920
Speaker 6: It's not about my feelings, my.

1655
01:39:26,920 --> 01:39:27,720
Speaker 11: Story, any of that.

1656
01:39:27,800 --> 01:39:31,800
Speaker 4: I'm totally focused on the other person. But today I

1657
01:39:31,840 --> 01:39:35,119
wept with her, And looking back, it may have been

1658
01:39:35,119 --> 01:39:38,119
appropriate in the moment, it may not have been. It

1659
01:39:38,159 --> 01:39:39,960
may have been a little bit too much of me

1660
01:39:40,039 --> 01:39:43,840
showing up in the session. But it's because she's not

1661
01:39:43,880 --> 01:39:48,159
on here on TikTok at twenty years old, deconstructing patriarchy

1662
01:39:48,199 --> 01:39:52,279
with her best friends. She's sixty with eight kids and

1663
01:39:52,359 --> 01:39:55,760
realizing now for the first time that she was sold alive.

1664
01:39:57,079 --> 01:39:59,880
She was told that the only value she has would

1665
01:39:59,880 --> 01:40:02,640
be in the service that she gives to others, especially

1666
01:40:02,680 --> 01:40:06,319
her husband and her children. And what kills me is

1667
01:40:06,359 --> 01:40:09,039
that by the time that she knew that she had value,

1668
01:40:09,159 --> 01:40:11,560
and she had a voice, and she deserves to have

1669
01:40:11,640 --> 01:40:14,760
passions and opinions, and she deserves to have autonomy over

1670
01:40:14,800 --> 01:40:18,359
her own body, her life was mostly over.

1671
01:40:22,159 --> 01:40:26,039
Speaker 3: These positions like that, like, you have to respect my

1672
01:40:26,159 --> 01:40:28,840
autonomy and my body, and I have value and I

1673
01:40:28,880 --> 01:40:32,840
have meaning? No, you don't, not the meaningless universe, right

1674
01:40:33,560 --> 01:40:36,560
And who are you to tell me I have to respect?

1675
01:40:36,600 --> 01:40:38,720
Are you a dogmatist? Now you're tell me I have

1676
01:40:38,760 --> 01:40:41,920
to respect your body and your values and your identity.

1677
01:40:42,039 --> 01:40:45,319
Speaker 2: Why, Well, and imagine talking to a woman who's sixty

1678
01:40:45,399 --> 01:40:48,720
years old with eight children and crying because she just

1679
01:40:48,800 --> 01:40:52,239
realized that she has more more worth than serving her

1680
01:40:52,279 --> 01:40:55,079
husband and children. Which I mean, what, what exactly is

1681
01:40:55,119 --> 01:40:57,760
there that's more beautiful and more important than your family?

1682
01:40:58,399 --> 01:41:00,600
So I mean what, I guess you.

1683
01:41:00,760 --> 01:41:05,399
Speaker 3: Didn't get her eat, prey, love, adventure in India or whatever?

1684
01:41:05,560 --> 01:41:09,840
Speaker 2: Right, yeah, the the romantic passionate sex with a guru.

1685
01:41:12,600 --> 01:41:19,479
Speaker 3: I would have preached my sheet inside of your like exactly.

1686
01:41:19,600 --> 01:41:27,399
Speaker 2: Yeah, she wasn't rolling in his bins? Right, Oh my god?

1687
01:41:28,399 --> 01:41:30,319
All right, let's uh so we kind of get a

1688
01:41:30,319 --> 01:41:34,680
feel for this woman. It's typical progressive babble. This one's

1689
01:41:35,159 --> 01:41:38,199
Christian Christianity, Jesus Bible, Christian talk.

1690
01:41:38,800 --> 01:41:41,640
Speaker 3: Well, it's interesting that that's that's the other guy's a

1691
01:41:41,760 --> 01:41:44,920
Mormon and she's an ex Mormon. Yeah, progressive Mormon.

1692
01:41:45,000 --> 01:41:47,359
Speaker 2: She's a Mormon, clearly a progressive too.

1693
01:41:47,720 --> 01:41:50,359
Speaker 3: Where's all this more? This Mormon stuff is weird, man,

1694
01:41:50,920 --> 01:41:57,439
and it's suddenly everywhere. Let's just another thing that's that

1695
01:41:57,760 --> 01:42:00,920
it's contributing to this Mormon stuff. Is I didn't know

1696
01:42:00,920 --> 01:42:02,560
this because I don't keep up with this domain. But

1697
01:42:02,680 --> 01:42:05,199
Jamie was telling me about like two of the biggest

1698
01:42:05,439 --> 01:42:10,239
TikTok models, Nara and then I forget the name of

1699
01:42:10,279 --> 01:42:12,560
the other one. But are you familiar with these people?

1700
01:42:12,600 --> 01:42:13,239
Have you heard of them?

1701
01:42:13,800 --> 01:42:13,880
Speaker 6: No?

1702
01:42:14,800 --> 01:42:19,279
Speaker 3: Come here, I can't herry you. Ballerina Farms and Nara

1703
01:42:19,359 --> 01:42:23,720
are like the two they're like the supermodels of today, right, So,

1704
01:42:23,840 --> 01:42:26,960
like if you think about nineties supermodels like Naomi Campbell

1705
01:42:27,039 --> 01:42:27,720
and Chris.

1706
01:42:27,960 --> 01:42:30,479
Speaker 2: You know, Heidi Klum or something. Clue.

1707
01:42:30,560 --> 01:42:35,800
Speaker 3: Yeah, so like today nowadays, it's the TikTokers, Ballerina Farms

1708
01:42:35,880 --> 01:42:40,159
and Nara, and they're both Mormon. So I'm serious, but

1709
01:42:41,000 --> 01:42:44,119
you're laughing about like this is the way people are

1710
01:42:44,600 --> 01:42:46,680
getting into Mormonism? Is this kind of stuff?

1711
01:42:47,079 --> 01:42:47,279
Speaker 2: Well?

1712
01:42:47,319 --> 01:42:50,680
Speaker 3: I mean, or like the Tates are getting people into Islam,

1713
01:42:50,720 --> 01:42:51,279
they're being in.

1714
01:42:52,359 --> 01:42:54,960
Speaker 2: Well, but in TikTok is a cesspool. I mean, as

1715
01:42:55,000 --> 01:42:58,119
you were you were live before there like insanely and

1716
01:42:58,199 --> 01:43:01,880
it was the dumbest I mean, the dumbest people making that.

1717
01:43:02,079 --> 01:43:05,479
I mean, it was retarded. It was people. I mean

1718
01:43:06,239 --> 01:43:11,880
just one guy was threatening you with basically romantic advances.

1719
01:43:12,079 --> 01:43:14,479
I mean, it's retarded. It was the lowest. I mean

1720
01:43:14,520 --> 01:43:17,439
at least when you hold your X spaces. Yeah, there's

1721
01:43:17,439 --> 01:43:21,439
some retards in there, but it's it's certainly higher here

1722
01:43:21,479 --> 01:43:27,640
than there for sure. But I just for shits and giggles,

1723
01:43:27,680 --> 01:43:29,720
I just want to click on this one as it's

1724
01:43:29,760 --> 01:43:34,000
specifically on Christianity.

1725
01:43:34,079 --> 01:43:36,520
Speaker 6: Here's how I think a real Christian would respond to

1726
01:43:36,560 --> 01:43:37,159
someone like me.

1727
01:43:38,000 --> 01:43:39,000
Speaker 4: Hi, I'm Britt Hartley.

1728
01:43:39,119 --> 01:43:42,199
Speaker 6: I'm an atheist, spiritual director and deconstruction coach.

1729
01:43:42,279 --> 01:43:43,479
Speaker 5: I have a master's.

1730
01:43:43,079 --> 01:43:45,680
Speaker 6: Degree in theology, and I produce a lot of content

1731
01:43:45,720 --> 01:43:49,239
on here about no nonsense spirituality. I got one comment

1732
01:43:49,640 --> 01:43:52,560
last week of the hundreds of thousands of comments that

1733
01:43:52,600 --> 01:43:55,439
I get from Christians on this app where I actually

1734
01:43:55,520 --> 01:43:58,199
had to sit back and say, Wow, here is someone

1735
01:43:58,279 --> 01:44:02,079
who answered how I would imagine a real follower of

1736
01:44:02,199 --> 01:44:06,079
Jesus would respond to someone like me, Because most of

1737
01:44:06,119 --> 01:44:09,199
the time I get comments about enjoy being raped in hell,

1738
01:44:09,479 --> 01:44:12,760
which is like it was your God that set up

1739
01:44:12,800 --> 01:44:14,520
that system, So that's more of a dig on you.

1740
01:44:14,880 --> 01:44:16,680
I get comments about your ignorant and.

1741
01:44:16,600 --> 01:44:21,319
Speaker 3: You'll understand that's why you're getting comments.

1742
01:44:21,000 --> 01:44:23,479
Speaker 6: And every me will bow and every tongue will confess

1743
01:44:23,600 --> 01:44:26,119
like they just can't wait for this dictatorship. I get

1744
01:44:26,119 --> 01:44:28,960
comments about enjoy being tortured forever, which is not something

1745
01:44:29,000 --> 01:44:31,800
I would even wish on my worst enemy, because eternal

1746
01:44:31,840 --> 01:44:36,439
torment for finite crimes is immoral. All kinds of condescending

1747
01:44:36,479 --> 01:44:39,079
and violent comments. You can three through my comments section

1748
01:44:39,159 --> 01:44:41,880
to see the worst of them. But if I were,

1749
01:44:42,239 --> 01:44:43,960
and again, how is this my job? But if I

1750
01:44:44,000 --> 01:44:47,479
were a real follower of Jesus, the character that he had,

1751
01:44:47,840 --> 01:44:50,279
this is how I think he would respond to videos

1752
01:44:50,359 --> 01:44:55,720
about religious deconstruction and about criticisms of Christianity. I think

1753
01:44:55,760 --> 01:44:59,000
someone would say, I am so sorry that the Christian

1754
01:44:59,119 --> 01:45:01,079
Church has hurt you so much. I know that the

1755
01:45:01,159 --> 01:45:04,239
Christian community can sometimes act not christ Well.

1756
01:45:04,319 --> 01:45:07,399
Speaker 3: You know what's interesting about hers that's different than McLellan's

1757
01:45:07,640 --> 01:45:11,359
is his is kind of low tier, sort of pseudo

1758
01:45:11,560 --> 01:45:16,760
intellectual approach. Hers is all emotion and feelies, right, and

1759
01:45:16,760 --> 01:45:19,279
that's why the women are resonating with it, right.

1760
01:45:19,359 --> 01:45:22,359
Speaker 2: Well, and both are Mormons. Again, her talking about how

1761
01:45:22,399 --> 01:45:26,079
the Christian community, I mean, what Christian community were you in?

1762
01:45:25,840 --> 01:45:27,520
You're in a Mormon.

1763
01:45:27,239 --> 01:45:28,800
Speaker 3: Crazy heterodox thing.

1764
01:45:28,920 --> 01:45:33,319
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, but you're right. Everything that she says is

1765
01:45:33,359 --> 01:45:37,439
all emotionalism. She doesn't actually make arguments.

1766
01:45:38,399 --> 01:45:41,199
Speaker 6: And that's our fault. Refer to kind of beam in

1767
01:45:41,239 --> 01:45:44,079
the eye scriptures there. I am sorry that you lost

1768
01:45:44,119 --> 01:45:47,720
everything when you left your religious community. Jesus always mourned

1769
01:45:47,760 --> 01:45:50,359
with those that mourn, and I really wish someone would

1770
01:45:50,399 --> 01:45:52,880
have been there for you in your darkest hour rather

1771
01:45:52,960 --> 01:45:56,439
than rejecting you and making you go through that alone.

1772
01:45:56,439 --> 01:45:57,720
Speaker 3: That sounds really hard.

1773
01:45:58,079 --> 01:46:00,399
Speaker 6: I understand that your moral compass has I do out

1774
01:46:00,399 --> 01:46:02,279
of this faith community, and I see that as very

1775
01:46:02,319 --> 01:46:04,439
brave of you. There are profits of old who spoke

1776
01:46:04,520 --> 01:46:07,520
truth to power and who were exiled into the wilderness

1777
01:46:07,600 --> 01:46:10,319
or stone, and we need your voice to help curb

1778
01:46:10,359 --> 01:46:13,520
the excesses of the institution, which is what Jesus did.

1779
01:46:13,760 --> 01:46:15,960
And I think some of your criticisms are really fair.

1780
01:46:16,880 --> 01:46:19,439
I appreciate your content. They help me to understand the

1781
01:46:19,479 --> 01:46:23,399
deconstruction community better and how not everyone experiences God's love

1782
01:46:23,439 --> 01:46:25,920
in God's churches. They help me know what I can

1783
01:46:25,960 --> 01:46:27,960
do as someone in the church to make it better

1784
01:46:28,000 --> 01:46:28,479
for people.

1785
01:46:29,720 --> 01:46:33,000
Speaker 2: Okay, I'm done with this video. This is boring, But

1786
01:46:34,199 --> 01:46:36,720
like you said, it's all emotionalism. I mean, this is

1787
01:46:38,960 --> 01:46:39,600
low level.

1788
01:46:41,439 --> 01:46:43,600
Speaker 3: I think you know, one of the bad parts about

1789
01:46:43,600 --> 01:46:48,119
heresy that people misunderstand. It's not just that heresy is

1790
01:46:48,199 --> 01:46:51,800
wrong and it gets things wrong, but heresy has the

1791
01:46:52,439 --> 01:46:57,279
tendency to produce these types of people, these types of reactions.

1792
01:46:57,279 --> 01:47:01,359
It leads to it's an atheism factory, right, is that

1793
01:47:01,479 --> 01:47:03,600
it's it's not just that it doesn't have the healing

1794
01:47:03,840 --> 01:47:06,039
you know of the nooisance and all that, because there's

1795
01:47:06,039 --> 01:47:08,359
other sacraments and all that. But that's true, but it

1796
01:47:08,399 --> 01:47:10,680
also has these offspring It's like it gives birth to

1797
01:47:10,720 --> 01:47:14,159
these hydra that creates it creates monsters.

1798
01:47:14,720 --> 01:47:19,000
Speaker 2: It's a Medusa for sure. Uh Ac just said, no nonsense.

1799
01:47:19,000 --> 01:47:22,199
Spirituality has Funko pops, doesn't she know they're a tool

1800
01:47:22,439 --> 01:47:25,079
of the patriarchy. Yeah, she also has Funko pops in

1801
01:47:25,119 --> 01:47:28,039
the background. You can see like right here at the

1802
01:47:28,239 --> 01:47:31,239
at the top right. So another commonality.

1803
01:47:31,319 --> 01:47:35,039
Speaker 3: Well then McLellan's all about marble crop right.

1804
01:47:35,039 --> 01:47:37,119
Speaker 2: Well, and he and and video, Well we can look

1805
01:47:37,159 --> 01:47:39,880
at the YouTube. In the wider angle of his video

1806
01:47:39,960 --> 01:47:42,359
is not the vertical camera, you can see funkl pops

1807
01:47:42,760 --> 01:47:46,199
in the back as well. I mean it as you

1808
01:47:46,279 --> 01:47:48,760
as you mentioned in the first part that we did

1809
01:47:48,760 --> 01:47:54,039
on this topic. It's the Yeah, the iconography plays itself

1810
01:47:54,079 --> 01:47:58,199
out over and over and over, which is astounding. Anyways,

1811
01:47:58,520 --> 01:48:00,840
let's move on from this chicking kind of just focused

1812
01:48:00,880 --> 01:48:04,079
on the last one is Dan McClellan. Now he has

1813
01:48:04,119 --> 01:48:08,359
a YouTube channel and he's got seventy one thousand subscribers.

1814
01:48:09,359 --> 01:48:11,279
We can watch one of these videos if any one

1815
01:48:11,319 --> 01:48:14,800
of the topics kind of peak your interest, or we

1816
01:48:14,840 --> 01:48:17,359
can check out his Instagram where he's got two hundred

1817
01:48:17,439 --> 01:48:18,199
thousand fill.

1818
01:48:18,560 --> 01:48:21,279
Speaker 3: Instagram is all Marvel cinematic.

1819
01:48:21,479 --> 01:48:26,399
Speaker 2: I mean, look at it. Spider Spider Punk, do Justice

1820
01:48:26,479 --> 01:48:27,159
Love Mercy?

1821
01:48:27,359 --> 01:48:29,199
Speaker 3: Looks like how old of this guy? It's like this

1822
01:48:29,279 --> 01:48:31,840
guy's like thirteen or is he thirteen? Or is a

1823
01:48:31,920 --> 01:48:32,439
grown man?

1824
01:48:34,039 --> 01:48:37,560
Speaker 2: Uh? He looks like he's definitely in the latter forties.

1825
01:48:38,199 --> 01:48:40,399
Speaker 3: Do you see, by the way, a woman with him

1826
01:48:40,399 --> 01:48:43,119
and in these pictures? Because never Yeah, the way he

1827
01:48:43,199 --> 01:48:45,880
talked was a little uh.

1828
01:48:45,680 --> 01:48:49,319
Speaker 2: Well, I wouldn't be surprised if this guy is swinging

1829
01:48:49,359 --> 01:48:52,199
for the other team. Put it. Put it one way,

1830
01:48:52,439 --> 01:48:56,600
he's an X man. Yeah, well, let this one he

1831
01:48:56,760 --> 01:48:58,399
just posted today, let's check it out.

1832
01:48:58,520 --> 01:49:00,199
Speaker 3: I have no longer man. He's an X.

1833
01:49:02,399 --> 01:49:04,840
Speaker 5: Is there a contradiction in the Bible regarding how much

1834
01:49:04,960 --> 01:49:08,640
King David paid for the threshing floor where he built

1835
01:49:08,680 --> 01:49:12,039
an altar. Two add on nine, Hey, everybody, I'm Dan McClellan.

1836
01:49:12,079 --> 01:49:14,319
I'm a scholar of the Bible and religion. Let's take

1837
01:49:14,359 --> 01:49:15,079
a look at a video.

1838
01:49:15,600 --> 01:49:18,279
Speaker 12: In Tewod Samuel twenty four to twenty four, David pays

1839
01:49:18,279 --> 01:49:20,960
a man fifty shekels of silver for his threshing floor

1840
01:49:20,960 --> 01:49:23,720
and the oxen. But then in First Chronicles twenty one

1841
01:49:23,720 --> 01:49:26,359
to twenty five it says that David paid this same

1842
01:49:26,439 --> 01:49:29,279
man six hundred shekels of gold for the place. So

1843
01:49:29,319 --> 01:49:32,239
according to Samuel, David paid only fifty shackles of silver,

1844
01:49:32,479 --> 01:49:35,359
but Chronicles said he paid six hundred shekels of gold,

1845
01:49:35,680 --> 01:49:37,279
two very different signs of money.

1846
01:49:37,600 --> 01:49:41,319
Speaker 5: Readers have recognized this discrepancy between these two accounts four

1847
01:49:41,479 --> 01:49:43,880
thousands of years, and there have been a few different

1848
01:49:43,920 --> 01:49:46,680
ways that they have sought to try to harmonize them. So,

1849
01:49:46,840 --> 01:49:49,760
for instance, in the Sebtuagen, the ancient Greek translation of

1850
01:49:49,800 --> 01:49:52,479
the Hebrew Bible, they alter the text a little bit

1851
01:49:52,520 --> 01:49:54,680
in Second Samuel twenty four to twenty four, because there

1852
01:49:54,720 --> 01:49:58,239
it says David bought the threshing floor and the oxen

1853
01:49:58,479 --> 01:50:00,920
for fifty shekels of silver. And if you go look

1854
01:50:00,960 --> 01:50:04,079
in the Septuagent, it adds something so that says David

1855
01:50:04,279 --> 01:50:07,840
bought the threshing floor for a price and the oxen

1856
01:50:08,039 --> 01:50:10,479
for fifty shekels of silver, to make it sound like

1857
01:50:10,720 --> 01:50:13,560
the text does not actually identify the price that was

1858
01:50:13,600 --> 01:50:17,000
paid for the threshing floor. In the medieval period, we

1859
01:50:17,079 --> 01:50:20,720
have pseudo Rashi who says that the fifty shekels of

1860
01:50:20,720 --> 01:50:23,720
silver is actually the cost for each of the twelve

1861
01:50:23,800 --> 01:50:27,279
tribes of Israel, and fifty times twelve is six hundred

1862
01:50:27,399 --> 01:50:29,760
and so you just have to ignore the difference between

1863
01:50:29,760 --> 01:50:32,479
the value of silver and gold and you have the

1864
01:50:32,520 --> 01:50:33,760
exact same prices.

1865
01:50:34,079 --> 01:50:38,520
Speaker 3: We know pliming that there is a discrepancy. Maybe the

1866
01:50:38,560 --> 01:50:42,960
Sebtu agent translation is right right, because we don't know,

1867
01:50:43,039 --> 01:50:47,600
we don't have access to back when the Jews were

1868
01:50:47,640 --> 01:50:50,079
translated what the Jews are translating the subtu agent from.

1869
01:50:50,640 --> 01:50:55,279
And if you read the Woodward book reviewing the Bible,

1870
01:50:55,640 --> 01:50:59,520
he actually argues that the masoretic tax was altered because

1871
01:50:59,520 --> 01:51:02,720
of Christianity, and that the Jews not wanting any text

1872
01:51:02,800 --> 01:51:05,880
to be utilized by Christians, so they would change really

1873
01:51:05,920 --> 01:51:12,119
strong Christian used passages to favor a Rabbinic reading. So

1874
01:51:12,800 --> 01:51:16,960
I mean, this just assumes that what masoretic, the Mazaret

1875
01:51:17,000 --> 01:51:18,720
text is the one that's correct. So I mean, and

1876
01:51:18,720 --> 01:51:20,800
by the way, a lot of that's like the history

1877
01:51:20,840 --> 01:51:24,640
of Protestantism is just defaulting to the Jewish masoretic text.

1878
01:51:26,920 --> 01:51:28,479
Speaker 2: Yeah. I want to click on one of these that

1879
01:51:28,560 --> 01:51:30,640
also has quite a few views here and see what

1880
01:51:30,640 --> 01:51:33,319
he says. This one's got one hundred and nine thousand

1881
01:51:33,359 --> 01:51:34,319
on Instagram.

1882
01:51:34,399 --> 01:51:36,279
Speaker 5: The prohibition on same sex, and of course that we

1883
01:51:36,319 --> 01:51:40,439
find in Leviticus eighteen and Leviticus twenty is not transferable

1884
01:51:40,479 --> 01:51:42,960
to contemporary Christian societies and anything.

1885
01:51:44,279 --> 01:51:45,359
Speaker 2: I knew it, I knew it.

1886
01:51:45,680 --> 01:51:47,920
Speaker 3: Yeah, So I'm sorry to think that he has an

1887
01:51:47,960 --> 01:51:52,079
activist agenda because of his proclivities exactly.

1888
01:51:51,800 --> 01:51:54,680
Speaker 5: So that we find in Leviticus eighteen and Leviticus twenty

1889
01:51:55,279 --> 01:51:59,279
is not transferable to contemporary Christian societies and anything remotely

1890
01:51:59,279 --> 01:52:03,039
approximating in authoritative way. Hey, everybody, I'm Dan McClellan. I'm

1891
01:52:03,039 --> 01:52:05,279
a scholar of the Bible and religion. We can consider

1892
01:52:05,319 --> 01:52:08,720
a bunch of different features of this prohibition. One, what

1893
01:52:08,840 --> 01:52:12,800
precisely is being prohibited. It is prohibiting a man from

1894
01:52:12,800 --> 01:52:16,159
taking the insertive role in an active male same sex intercourse.

1895
01:52:16,479 --> 01:52:19,880
You try to transfer that, you're not getting the whole package.

1896
01:52:19,920 --> 01:52:22,640
You're just getting a prohibition on a man taking the

1897
01:52:22,680 --> 01:52:25,720
insertive role in an act of male same sex intercourse.

1898
01:52:25,840 --> 01:52:28,840
Speaker 3: This is people are going to a way of like

1899
01:52:29,279 --> 01:52:33,279
read like, Well, it only says this, So if it's

1900
01:52:33,319 --> 01:52:36,840
not an insertive role, then it's not gay sex. It's

1901
01:52:36,880 --> 01:52:38,119
not prohibited, you know what I mean?

1902
01:52:38,319 --> 01:52:42,960
Speaker 2: Exactly the oral festivities he has with his friends, that's not.

1903
01:52:43,000 --> 01:52:46,239
Speaker 3: That doesn't count because it doesn't say that. Sex doesn't

1904
01:52:46,239 --> 01:52:50,119
say that. But this is in the part one with you.

1905
01:52:50,159 --> 01:52:52,319
Speaker 2: That's exactly what we said they were going to do.

1906
01:52:53,800 --> 01:52:58,399
Speaker 5: Twenty thirteen condemns both parties to death, so obviously both

1907
01:52:58,439 --> 01:53:02,520
parties are equally culpable. Well, no, that's actually not accurate,

1908
01:53:02,600 --> 01:53:08,039
and that brings up the rationalization for the actual prohibition. See, anciently,

1909
01:53:08,119 --> 01:53:12,000
sex was not an activity that's not a partner mutually

1910
01:53:12,039 --> 01:53:12,640
engaged in.

1911
01:53:12,720 --> 01:53:16,479
Speaker 3: It was a Bible scholar. He doesn't know a word

1912
01:53:18,640 --> 01:53:19,760
Anciently sex.

1913
01:53:20,800 --> 01:53:21,760
Speaker 2: You haven't had that day.

1914
01:53:22,119 --> 01:53:24,439
Speaker 3: Let me see if I mean, I could be wrong.

1915
01:53:25,119 --> 01:53:27,960
I've never heard of it. It doesn't sound like, actually

1916
01:53:27,960 --> 01:53:30,079
I am wrong. Apparently anciently is a word.

1917
01:53:30,079 --> 01:53:33,039
Speaker 2: I've never heard that, anciently sex. It sounds like it's

1918
01:53:35,199 --> 01:53:36,439
never heard of phrase that way.

1919
01:53:37,520 --> 01:53:40,159
Speaker 3: I guess. I guess I just don't know. I don't

1920
01:53:40,199 --> 01:53:48,399
know an object know this domain very well, so I'll

1921
01:53:48,479 --> 01:53:49,560
defer to him on ancient.

1922
01:53:51,079 --> 01:53:53,359
Speaker 2: Yeah. Well, this was posted about three days ago and

1923
01:53:53,399 --> 01:53:56,039
it's got over one hundred thousand views, so it struck

1924
01:53:56,039 --> 01:53:59,600
a chord with a lot of people were this might

1925
01:53:59,640 --> 01:54:06,039
be my favorite video of yours yet, And that's saying something, yes, honey, irrelevant.

1926
01:54:06,439 --> 01:54:09,720
Speaker 5: Now, what Leviticus twenty is doing is expanding on the

1927
01:54:09,760 --> 01:54:13,079
penalties for the different illicit sexual acts that are prohibited

1928
01:54:13,119 --> 01:54:16,840
in Leviticus eighteen. And in every instance, both parties are

1929
01:54:16,880 --> 01:54:19,720
condemned to the same penalty, not because both parties are

1930
01:54:19,720 --> 01:54:23,760
equally culpable. They aren't. The animal is put to death

1931
01:54:23,840 --> 01:54:26,920
in the case of bestiality, but their agency and consent

1932
01:54:27,079 --> 01:54:31,720
was obviously irrelevant. Leviticus is not commanding the animals to

1933
01:54:31,800 --> 01:54:35,880
behave in a certain way. It's because this illicit sexual

1934
01:54:35,920 --> 01:54:39,119
act was considered to generate a kind of metaphysical contamination

1935
01:54:39,560 --> 01:54:42,000
that polluted the land and that could result in the

1936
01:54:42,079 --> 01:54:46,439
land vomiting the people out. And this contamination was perceived

1937
01:54:46,479 --> 01:54:51,479
to be produced because these sexual acts violated socially conventionalized

1938
01:54:51,520 --> 01:54:54,760
boundaries and categories and hierarchies. And when it comes to

1939
01:54:55,000 --> 01:54:58,279
male same sex intercourse, men are at the top of

1940
01:54:58,479 --> 01:55:02,800
the socially conventionalized higherierarchy of domination, and so to sexually

1941
01:55:02,840 --> 01:55:06,279
subordinate and penetrate a man is to violate that hierarchy

1942
01:55:06,680 --> 01:55:10,520
and to violate his sexual agency, turning him into a

1943
01:55:10,640 --> 01:55:14,640
passive sexual object. And they understood that contamination to be

1944
01:55:14,800 --> 01:55:17,800
purged only through the application of the same penalty to

1945
01:55:18,000 --> 01:55:23,079
both involved parties, again, irrespective of the agency or the consent.

1946
01:55:23,439 --> 01:55:26,720
Now that brings us to the motivation. What's actually underlying

1947
01:55:27,159 --> 01:55:32,880
these outdated and scientifically inaccurate rationalizations. The motivation is the

1948
01:55:32,920 --> 01:55:38,239
intuitive impulse to seek out sanctity and purity. This is

1949
01:55:38,279 --> 01:55:41,840
what cognitive sciences called sexual disgust sensitivity. And there are

1950
01:55:41,880 --> 01:55:45,359
a bunch of studies on how this contributes to opposition

1951
01:55:45,760 --> 01:55:48,520
to LGBTQ plus identities.

1952
01:55:48,800 --> 01:55:52,560
Speaker 3: And this is yeah, now we get to the issue,

1953
01:55:52,640 --> 01:55:53,920
right well.

1954
01:55:53,720 --> 01:55:56,199
Speaker 2: I mean, he's got a point. I am disgusted.

1955
01:55:58,479 --> 01:56:01,880
Speaker 3: Yeah, but that's because you've been trained by these hierarchies

1956
01:56:01,920 --> 01:56:02,840
to feel that true.

1957
01:56:03,680 --> 01:56:07,119
Speaker 2: That's true. I've been I've been oppressed and reprogrammed through these.

1958
01:56:08,239 --> 01:56:10,119
Speaker 3: If you need to be re educated, so you need

1959
01:56:10,159 --> 01:56:12,920
to go to re educate a gay re education camp.

1960
01:56:14,479 --> 01:56:17,039
But by the way, it's not accidental that, I mean,

1961
01:56:17,039 --> 01:56:18,800
Mormonism is ultimately a sex call.

1962
01:56:20,760 --> 01:56:21,239
Speaker 2: Yeah.

1963
01:56:21,279 --> 01:56:24,520
Speaker 3: So again, notice where's he coming out of what's the

1964
01:56:24,560 --> 01:56:26,439
part of Mormonism? Right?

1965
01:56:26,760 --> 01:56:29,960
Speaker 2: And what's what's hilarious is that he hasn't dropped his

1966
01:56:30,000 --> 01:56:33,039
Mormon identity, at least on his YouTube channel. His intro

1967
01:56:33,199 --> 01:56:35,960
video at the very end of it, he states that

1968
01:56:36,039 --> 01:56:39,960
I am a Mormon. So very interesting.

1969
01:56:40,000 --> 01:56:41,600
Speaker 3: That's very interesting.

1970
01:56:43,279 --> 01:56:48,319
Speaker 5: Through education, through interactions with lgbt Q plus people, because

1971
01:56:48,359 --> 01:56:52,039
you learn that there's nothing wrong with them. There you go,

1972
01:56:52,239 --> 01:56:54,920
you learn that they are perfectly human and that there

1973
01:56:54,960 --> 01:56:59,640
is no contamination being generated by their sexual identity.

1974
01:57:00,119 --> 01:57:04,479
Speaker 3: So the actualmination, right, So maybe the land is vomiting

1975
01:57:04,560 --> 01:57:10,079
people out because of the demonic contamination, right, So he's

1976
01:57:10,239 --> 01:57:13,520
making it something genetic or physical. No, no, what if

1977
01:57:13,520 --> 01:57:15,000
it's actually spiritual?

1978
01:57:16,800 --> 01:57:18,880
Speaker 2: Well, I think you feels personally attacked here too.

1979
01:57:20,279 --> 01:57:24,520
Speaker 5: ELF is not transferable. The rationalization is obviously not transferable.

1980
01:57:24,720 --> 01:57:29,279
The motivation, while it is still active today, it's not authoritative.

1981
01:57:29,479 --> 01:57:32,760
You can't say that this needs to be prohibited because

1982
01:57:32,760 --> 01:57:35,800
it gives me the ick. That's not an actual argument.

1983
01:57:36,159 --> 01:57:40,319
The scope is not transferable because Leviticus eighteen and Leviticus

1984
01:57:40,319 --> 01:57:43,000
twenty are addressing members of the House of Israel occupying

1985
01:57:43,000 --> 01:57:45,439
the land of Israel. If you are not a member

1986
01:57:45,439 --> 01:57:47,840
of the House of Israel, if you are not occupying

1987
01:57:48,279 --> 01:57:51,479
the land of Israel, this has nothing to do with you.

1988
01:57:51,560 --> 01:57:54,640
So it is not transferable to contemporary Christians.

1989
01:57:54,640 --> 01:57:59,039
Speaker 3: Well, except that in Romans one and then Bull letters

1990
01:57:59,039 --> 01:58:04,680
to Timothy, the scope is universalized to include all cultures

1991
01:58:04,680 --> 01:58:06,880
doing this as unnatural right.

1992
01:58:06,920 --> 01:58:08,439
Speaker 2: And I want to that's what I was getting ready

1993
01:58:08,479 --> 01:58:10,119
to say. Is I wonder if he makes any reference

1994
01:58:10,119 --> 01:58:13,039
to Romans one and just kind of localizes this argument

1995
01:58:13,039 --> 01:58:13,920
in Leviticus to.

1996
01:58:13,840 --> 01:58:16,359
Speaker 3: Try to we just read by the way Leviticus eighteen,

1997
01:58:16,439 --> 01:58:19,079
he says that the scope is only for those people,

1998
01:58:19,600 --> 01:58:23,359
but God says that he despises all of the practices

1999
01:58:23,359 --> 01:58:27,880
of the pagans. Pagan peoples that do these things. Right, So, no,

2000
01:58:27,960 --> 01:58:31,479
it's not just for the Israelites. The very passage Leviticus

2001
01:58:31,560 --> 01:58:33,680
eighteen says for the people who do these things or

2002
01:58:33,680 --> 01:58:38,079
an abomination, talking about the existing pagans who had taken

2003
01:58:38,279 --> 01:58:39,039
the land.

2004
01:58:39,720 --> 01:58:43,840
Speaker 5: Right in Leviticus eighteen, the punishment is that you will

2005
01:58:43,880 --> 01:58:46,680
be cut off. This could mean a lot of different things,

2006
01:58:46,760 --> 01:58:50,000
but it's not transferable in an authoritative way to today.

2007
01:58:50,239 --> 01:58:54,720
In Leviticus twenty, it's the death penalty. Also non transferable

2008
01:58:54,760 --> 01:58:57,920
to Christian societies today. And if you're among those groups

2009
01:58:57,920 --> 01:59:01,199
who are trying to advocate for execute of members of

2010
01:59:01,239 --> 01:59:04,880
the LGBTQ plus community, you need to grow the hell up.

2011
01:59:05,199 --> 01:59:08,680
So none of these prohibitions taking the insertive role in

2012
01:59:08,720 --> 01:59:09,399
an active message.

2013
01:59:09,560 --> 01:59:13,800
Speaker 3: That's not an argument grow up? How does that tell

2014
01:59:13,840 --> 01:59:16,479
me that? So that's uh, how does that tell me

2015
01:59:16,479 --> 01:59:19,720
that my position is wrong? Telling me to grow up?

2016
01:59:19,760 --> 01:59:25,119
I mean again, like he didn't actually address the like

2017
01:59:25,319 --> 01:59:28,720
unnatural aspect of it, right, because that's the argumentation that

2018
01:59:31,279 --> 01:59:35,399
let's send looking for the text where for all these

2019
01:59:35,439 --> 01:59:37,720
things were done by the people who lived here before you,

2020
01:59:37,800 --> 01:59:40,560
and they defiled this land. It will vomit you out

2021
01:59:40,960 --> 01:59:45,079
these things every listen, this is Leviticus eighteen. Everyone who

2022
01:59:45,119 --> 01:59:48,840
does these things is detestables, is detestable. So the the

2023
01:59:48,960 --> 01:59:52,319
argument is not that it's only relative to this land,

2024
01:59:52,399 --> 01:59:54,920
but outside of this land, I don't care if you, like,

2025
01:59:55,079 --> 01:59:59,880
you know, commit the edo actions and you know again

2026
02:00:00,039 --> 02:00:04,960
and like it says multiple times over that and this

2027
02:00:05,039 --> 02:00:08,079
is another reason, you know, we forgot to mention the flood,

2028
02:00:08,680 --> 02:00:12,199
like this had become universal. That's why there was the flood,

2029
02:00:12,239 --> 02:00:16,680
because that whole stock of people, except for Noah and

2030
02:00:16,720 --> 02:00:18,760
his family, had become completely wicked.

2031
02:00:19,439 --> 02:00:21,800
Speaker 2: Well, and is this ingenuous on his part to just

2032
02:00:21,920 --> 02:00:24,720
try to make this argument based on Leviticus eighteen twenty

2033
02:00:24,800 --> 02:00:26,880
and then say, well, you know, if you're if you're

2034
02:00:26,920 --> 02:00:29,479
advocating for the death penalty, then that is not applicable

2035
02:00:29,520 --> 02:00:33,199
to modern day Christian societies. And then and then limiting

2036
02:00:33,279 --> 02:00:36,079
the context of this verse and not including Romans, not

2037
02:00:36,119 --> 02:00:41,520
including the New Testament, not including Christ's description of what

2038
02:00:41,640 --> 02:00:45,720
marriage is, he himself is limiting the context to try

2039
02:00:45,760 --> 02:00:48,319
to suit his presuppositions and the point that he's trying

2040
02:00:48,359 --> 02:00:48,840
to make.

2041
02:00:50,399 --> 02:00:53,760
Speaker 5: Are transferable to contemporary Christian society. So why do so

2042
02:00:53,800 --> 02:00:57,399
many Christians today continue to appeal so blithely to these

2043
02:00:57,520 --> 02:01:02,079
utterly irrelevant passages from Leviticus. It's because homophobia continues to

2044
02:01:02,199 --> 02:01:06,039
be a central identity marker for a lot of conservative Christians,

2045
02:01:06,079 --> 02:01:06,720
and they are.

2046
02:01:07,039 --> 02:01:11,239
Speaker 3: A progressivesm is true. Why is it wrong to be hypocritical?

2047
02:01:11,520 --> 02:01:13,920
Why is it wrong to have those kinds of attitudes?

2048
02:01:14,479 --> 02:01:15,920
On what basis is that wrong?

2049
02:01:16,399 --> 02:01:19,880
Speaker 2: He did to provide an argument doesn't matter if.

2050
02:01:20,119 --> 02:01:22,520
Speaker 3: No progressive can tell you why something's wrong.

2051
02:01:23,359 --> 02:01:26,199
Speaker 5: A vested of its contexts, that they have to ignore

2052
02:01:26,199 --> 02:01:29,640
the actual prohibition, that the rationalization is irrelevant, that the

2053
02:01:29,720 --> 02:01:33,399
motivation is not authoritative, that the scope is irrelevant, that

2054
02:01:33,439 --> 02:01:36,920
the punishment is not authoritative. Because all they're looking for

2055
02:01:37,039 --> 02:01:39,000
is a proof text that they can leverage in the

2056
02:01:39,000 --> 02:01:42,479
structuring of power and values and boundaries in the service

2057
02:01:42,520 --> 02:01:45,680
of their right wing authoritarian identity politics. It's all about

2058
02:01:45,680 --> 02:01:49,479
identity politics. It's all about power, and unfortunately it is

2059
02:01:49,520 --> 02:01:54,279
increasingly about money, which means the liberty, the humanity, the

2060
02:01:54,439 --> 02:01:58,319
very lives of LGBTQ plus men, women and children are

2061
02:01:58,399 --> 02:02:02,039
being hurled on to the all her a right wing, authoritarian,

2062
02:02:02,239 --> 02:02:05,720
conservative Christian identity politics, just so people can have more

2063
02:02:05,760 --> 02:02:09,479
power and money, and that has simply got to stop.

2064
02:02:10,039 --> 02:02:13,680
And for this video has been Micah six ' eight

2065
02:02:14,960 --> 02:02:15,560
the probibition.

2066
02:02:20,439 --> 02:02:25,800
Speaker 2: Yikes, yikes. Yeah. So I don't know if I if

2067
02:02:25,800 --> 02:02:27,920
there's anything in particular you want to watch. I mean,

2068
02:02:27,920 --> 02:02:32,840
he has a YouTube channel. Are there any videos here

2069
02:02:32,880 --> 02:02:33,680
that you'd like to hear?

2070
02:02:33,880 --> 02:02:35,920
Speaker 3: I can't really see the titles? What are some of

2071
02:02:35,960 --> 02:02:37,359
the titles of them?

2072
02:02:37,399 --> 02:02:40,720
Speaker 2: This one's five things most Christians don't know about Jesus?

2073
02:02:41,359 --> 02:02:43,960
Why is Matthew seventeen twenty one a minute from most

2074
02:02:44,000 --> 02:02:47,479
modern Bibles about the King James version? We already got his.

2075
02:02:47,640 --> 02:02:50,399
I already watched the cant of person about Jesus.

2076
02:02:50,399 --> 02:02:51,119
Speaker 3: That sounds all right.

2077
02:02:52,720 --> 02:02:55,439
Speaker 11: Five things most Christians don't know about Jesus.

2078
02:02:56,279 --> 02:02:57,159
Speaker 3: All right, let's see it.

2079
02:02:57,800 --> 02:03:01,319
Speaker 11: One. Jesus wasn't hung on a cross. The Bible use

2080
02:03:01,439 --> 02:03:05,319
is the Greek word style rows. It was translated as cross,

2081
02:03:05,520 --> 02:03:11,600
but it can also mean a steaks from those witnesses there.

2082
02:03:12,319 --> 02:03:15,439
Speaker 5: So the Greek word stavros can refer to just a steak,

2083
02:03:15,800 --> 02:03:18,560
but it can also refer to a cross, whether it's

2084
02:03:18,600 --> 02:03:20,640
in an X shape, where it's in a capital T

2085
02:03:20,840 --> 02:03:23,680
shape or maybe a lower case T shape The notion

2086
02:03:23,840 --> 02:03:27,279
that Romans normally didn't use those other crosses isn't really

2087
02:03:27,319 --> 02:03:30,640
supported by the data. We don't have clear indications what

2088
02:03:30,840 --> 02:03:33,880
style was preferred over another style, and.

2089
02:03:35,279 --> 02:03:38,319
Speaker 3: A lot of what under a lot of what underlies

2090
02:03:38,359 --> 02:03:40,399
the assumptions of people like him is that there is

2091
02:03:40,520 --> 02:03:43,840
only textual evidence and that we could not ever listen

2092
02:03:43,920 --> 02:03:48,079
to oral tradition or the church's tradition. Right, So that's that,

2093
02:03:48,600 --> 02:03:52,880
and he's coming. You remember, Mormonism is still basically a

2094
02:03:52,920 --> 02:03:58,239
schism of the Protestant domain. Right. It's not technically Protestant

2095
02:03:58,239 --> 02:04:01,760
because it's a cult, but it's ethos from which it emerges,

2096
02:04:01,920 --> 02:04:04,760
which when Joseph Smith created his colt was out of

2097
02:04:04,760 --> 02:04:08,159
all the Protestant churches that he had visited. So still,

2098
02:04:08,159 --> 02:04:11,760
I'm serious, it's still a Protestant cold and so therefore

2099
02:04:11,760 --> 02:04:15,000
they're going to assume that, you know, there's no church

2100
02:04:15,039 --> 02:04:19,000
tradition that's relevant. We only have these textual evidences. But again,

2101
02:04:19,319 --> 02:04:23,760
does he deconstruct the Book of Mormon by the way.

2102
02:04:23,439 --> 02:04:26,319
Speaker 2: I have not seen one on that. I have not

2103
02:04:26,399 --> 02:04:28,960
seen that. But you make the point that we mentioned

2104
02:04:28,960 --> 02:04:31,640
in the opening is that they have no recognition of

2105
02:04:31,760 --> 02:04:34,720
oral tradition or the history of the Church, or how

2106
02:04:34,800 --> 02:04:37,000
the oral tradition of the Old Testament is continued in

2107
02:04:37,039 --> 02:04:37,840
the New Testament.

2108
02:04:38,680 --> 02:04:43,520
Speaker 5: So of crucifixion, don't come and tell about a century

2109
02:04:43,560 --> 02:04:45,960
after the death of Christ and then almost one hundred

2110
02:04:46,039 --> 02:04:50,000
years after that, but both of those depictions show at

2111
02:04:50,039 --> 02:04:51,000
T shaped cross.

2112
02:04:51,000 --> 02:04:51,560
Speaker 3: Take a look.

2113
02:04:52,000 --> 02:04:54,880
Speaker 5: This is the earliest known artistic depiction of a crucifixion

2114
02:04:54,920 --> 02:04:58,279
that shows the T shaped cross. This was discovered in

2115
02:04:58,319 --> 02:05:01,439
some excavations in a city called Pute, only outside of Naples,

2116
02:05:01,600 --> 02:05:04,640
and it is dated by scholars to around the reign

2117
02:05:04,720 --> 02:05:08,279
of Trajan or Hadrian, so somewhere between around one ten

2118
02:05:08,399 --> 02:05:11,640
and maybe one thirty or one forty CE. And then

2119
02:05:11,680 --> 02:05:15,039
we have the famous Aleximenos graffito, which was discovered scratched

2120
02:05:15,039 --> 02:05:17,800
into the walls of some barracks in Rome, dating to

2121
02:05:18,079 --> 02:05:20,800
around the year two hundred, maybe a little after, shows

2122
02:05:20,800 --> 02:05:24,239
Alexamenos on the left says Alexemenos worships his God, and

2123
02:05:24,279 --> 02:05:27,680
that's supposed to be Jesus being crucified with arms outstretched

2124
02:05:27,680 --> 02:05:30,359
over a T shaped cross with the head.

2125
02:05:30,119 --> 02:05:30,880
Speaker 11: Of an ass.

2126
02:05:30,960 --> 02:05:34,319
Speaker 5: So they were capable of some pretty sick burns back then.

2127
02:05:34,479 --> 02:05:38,199
Speaker 11: Two, Jesus wasn't born in a stable. According to Luke,

2128
02:05:38,399 --> 02:05:41,600
the baby was placed in a major, but scholars say

2129
02:05:41,840 --> 02:05:45,800
it's a mistranslation of guest room. Jesus was probably born

2130
02:05:46,039 --> 02:05:47,479
in his relative's house.

2131
02:05:47,439 --> 02:05:50,760
Speaker 5: So it is not the word manger that is a mistranslation.

2132
02:05:50,960 --> 02:05:54,279
That's translated correctly. It is the phrase there was no

2133
02:05:54,399 --> 02:05:57,880
room at the inn that is a mistranslation. That is

2134
02:05:57,920 --> 02:06:00,720
where the word most likely refers to to the sleeping

2135
02:06:00,760 --> 02:06:03,520
quarters or a guest room. So whoever made this video

2136
02:06:04,159 --> 02:06:05,479
was not paying close attention.

2137
02:06:06,359 --> 02:06:10,199
Speaker 11: Three. Jesus was not white. We're familiar with the image

2138
02:06:10,199 --> 02:06:13,239
of Jesus as a white man, but it comes from

2139
02:06:13,359 --> 02:06:17,800
later European depictions. Jesus was Middle Eastern and Jewish.

2140
02:06:18,039 --> 02:06:20,840
Speaker 5: So while that video is showing imagery from medieval and

2141
02:06:20,960 --> 02:06:23,640
later European depictions of Jesus, we already have in the

2142
02:06:23,640 --> 02:06:27,279
Byzantine Empire in the fourth, fifth and sixth century CE,

2143
02:06:27,399 --> 02:06:31,600
Jesus being represented with lighter skin and brown hair. So

2144
02:06:31,880 --> 02:06:34,760
it was only a few centuries after Jesus that the

2145
02:06:34,800 --> 02:06:39,600
depictions shifted in the direction of a more European looking Jesus.

2146
02:06:40,079 --> 02:06:42,680
Speaker 3: Jesus wasn't born to say that again, how does he

2147
02:06:42,760 --> 02:06:44,000
know they shifted.

2148
02:06:44,520 --> 02:06:49,560
Speaker 2: Right, They're just making an assumption based on what they perceived.

2149
02:06:49,640 --> 02:06:51,319
Middle Eastern Jewish identity would.

2150
02:06:51,119 --> 02:06:55,159
Speaker 3: Have looked at Orthodox iconography as a fairly consistent presentation

2151
02:06:55,199 --> 02:06:56,000
of what Christ.

2152
02:06:55,840 --> 02:06:58,319
Speaker 2: Looks like, and that matches with the shroud of Turin.

2153
02:07:02,439 --> 02:07:06,239
Speaker 11: Born on December twenty fifth. None of the gospels mentioned

2154
02:07:06,279 --> 02:07:09,439
his birth date five that is accurate.

2155
02:07:10,319 --> 02:07:14,359
Speaker 3: Jesus is actually non accurate. But we know from the

2156
02:07:14,359 --> 02:07:18,319
Book of Luke based on the time at which Zachariah

2157
02:07:18,520 --> 02:07:22,800
was ministering in the temple. There's a great classic article

2158
02:07:22,960 --> 02:07:28,079
on this from Good Shepherd Orthodox Church. Everybody should be

2159
02:07:28,159 --> 02:07:34,319
familiar with this because you'll hear every year it goes around.

2160
02:07:34,520 --> 02:07:40,319
We all know, right, the Protestant thing of Christmas is pagan, right.

2161
02:07:40,359 --> 02:07:44,159
But Luke one eight through eleven it says when Zachariah

2162
02:07:44,279 --> 02:07:46,680
was on duty and was serving as a priest before God,

2163
02:07:46,720 --> 02:07:48,720
he was chosen by a lot, according to the custom

2164
02:07:48,720 --> 02:07:51,079
of the priesthood, to go into the temple Lord to

2165
02:07:51,079 --> 02:07:52,960
burn the incense. And when the time for the burning

2166
02:07:52,960 --> 02:07:56,239
of incense came, all the assembled worshipers were praying outside.

2167
02:07:56,279 --> 02:07:57,920
Then an angel Lord appeared to him to stand on

2168
02:07:57,960 --> 02:08:00,479
the right of the altar of incense. It's the day

2169
02:08:00,520 --> 02:08:03,279
of Yam Kapoor is the day in which this instance

2170
02:08:03,399 --> 02:08:06,079
was offered. Based on this observation, Christians were able to

2171
02:08:06,079 --> 02:08:10,199
calculate the birth of John the Baptist as September twenty

2172
02:08:10,239 --> 02:08:13,800
third plus two hundred and seventy days, which equals June

2173
02:08:13,840 --> 02:08:17,479
twenty fourth. They've then observed that the annunciation of Christ's

2174
02:08:17,479 --> 02:08:21,319
birth was six months after John the Baptist conception. That

2175
02:08:21,399 --> 02:08:25,399
would put six months later at March twenty fifth. Through

2176
02:08:25,399 --> 02:08:28,199
this reasoning, Ireinaus established March twenty fifth as the date

2177
02:08:28,199 --> 02:08:31,840
of the annunciation, and thus the annunciation would be what

2178
02:08:32,000 --> 02:08:38,600
nine months later at December twenty fifth, Right, So this

2179
02:08:38,680 --> 02:08:42,239
is the patristic reasoning as to where that date would

2180
02:08:42,279 --> 02:08:49,399
come would come from for December twenty five. So while

2181
02:08:49,399 --> 02:08:52,079
pushing the pagan conspiracy there that the December twenty five

2182
02:08:52,199 --> 02:08:56,239
is a pagan date, they never talk about the conception

2183
02:08:56,319 --> 02:08:59,319
of John the Baptist as part of the reasoning for

2184
02:08:59,399 --> 02:08:59,840
this date.

2185
02:09:01,119 --> 02:09:03,359
Speaker 2: Right, it always goes back to Mithra worship and stuff

2186
02:09:03,399 --> 02:09:03,720
like that.

2187
02:09:05,880 --> 02:09:10,039
Speaker 11: Says Jesus had a number of siblings. However, in Catholic

2188
02:09:10,119 --> 02:09:14,479
and Eastern Orthodox doctrines, Jesus is an only child, so this.

2189
02:09:14,520 --> 02:09:16,720
Speaker 5: Is accurate, and many scholars believe that this idea of

2190
02:09:16,720 --> 02:09:21,079
the perpetual virginity of Mary is an elaboration on a

2191
02:09:21,199 --> 02:09:25,680
tradition from the Proto Gospel of James, which describes Mary

2192
02:09:25,800 --> 02:09:29,039
as a virgin who marries Joseph, who is a much

2193
02:09:29,039 --> 02:09:31,960
older man who already has children from another marriage. So

2194
02:09:32,039 --> 02:09:36,640
that is where Jesus's siblings come from.

2195
02:09:36,920 --> 02:09:40,880
Speaker 2: Okay, so that's his five things about Jesus that you

2196
02:09:40,920 --> 02:09:44,000
don't know. But I think people have kind of got

2197
02:09:44,000 --> 02:09:46,640
a feel for what it is that he does and

2198
02:09:46,680 --> 02:09:49,159
how he approaches this and how he has his own

2199
02:09:50,279 --> 02:09:59,159
his own mission and agenda behind his deconstructions. Yeah, so anyways, guys,

2200
02:09:59,159 --> 02:10:00,920
smash that like, we have a few super chats. We're

2201
02:10:00,920 --> 02:10:03,279
gonna address those real quick and then hop out of here.

2202
02:10:03,760 --> 02:10:06,840
Thank you again, Jay for being here for part two.

2203
02:10:07,840 --> 02:10:12,600
Your knowledge of scripture and theology is profound, and appreciate

2204
02:10:12,640 --> 02:10:13,800
your insights on the topic.

2205
02:10:14,279 --> 02:10:17,319
Speaker 3: Sure, yeah, I don't know everything. One of those was

2206
02:10:17,359 --> 02:10:21,119
not something I wasn't familiar with. The blood on the

2207
02:10:21,560 --> 02:10:23,760
cloth of the virgin. That one was one I wasn't

2208
02:10:23,760 --> 02:10:28,039
familiar with, but hey, I don't know everything, so it's

2209
02:10:28,079 --> 02:10:28,800
all good.

2210
02:10:29,800 --> 02:10:33,520
Speaker 2: AC throws into generous fifty dollars. Does everyone make clips

2211
02:10:33,600 --> 02:10:35,960
of this so we have TikTok emma, Well, thank you

2212
02:10:36,039 --> 02:10:39,199
very much. AC. To appreciate it, DC would work through

2213
02:10:39,199 --> 02:10:42,199
in three dollars, Thank you very much. DC, and our

2214
02:10:42,279 --> 02:10:44,920
sister slow Boy Whiteboard throws in twenty dollars, says, my

2215
02:10:45,000 --> 02:10:47,520
kids went to a rap concert last night. They're both

2216
02:10:47,560 --> 02:10:52,079
adults now, so whatevs. His name is Joey. Never heard

2217
02:10:52,079 --> 02:10:54,359
of him, but they came back with merch that had

2218
02:10:54,600 --> 02:10:58,680
orthodox crosses. I looked him up tonight Music's trash. It's

2219
02:10:58,720 --> 02:10:59,439
a shame.

2220
02:11:00,760 --> 02:11:05,800
Speaker 3: Weird. Well, I appreciate, like, uh, you know, Kanye and like,

2221
02:11:06,399 --> 02:11:08,079
you know what I mean, because they started talking about

2222
02:11:08,319 --> 02:11:12,039
icons and ice Cube was talking about icons, and then

2223
02:11:12,319 --> 02:11:15,079
Jordan Peterson's wearing a jacket. So I wonder if people

2224
02:11:15,119 --> 02:11:18,439
are like picking up on this as like a just weird,

2225
02:11:18,600 --> 02:11:20,439
you know, aesthetic trend.

2226
02:11:21,479 --> 02:11:23,199
Speaker 2: I could see. I could definitely see that, and I've

2227
02:11:23,199 --> 02:11:25,720
seen it also in sort of the more hardcore metal

2228
02:11:25,800 --> 02:11:30,680
music too. That really okay, That utilization of the orthodox

2229
02:11:30,720 --> 02:11:36,720
aesthetic is a little popular, right, Okay, Ted Nublett throws

2230
02:11:36,720 --> 02:11:38,880
in five dollars, Thank you very much, he says, numbers

2231
02:11:38,920 --> 02:11:43,479
five eleven, and for the abroad potion, okay, so I

2232
02:11:43,520 --> 02:11:44,920
think I was referencing.

2233
02:11:44,560 --> 02:11:48,880
Speaker 3: When I was talking about Yeah.

2234
02:11:47,279 --> 02:11:49,239
Speaker 2: And then Sincere Inpricrit throws in that.

2235
02:11:49,279 --> 02:11:54,680
Speaker 3: Would be for a child who's printed parentages is question

2236
02:11:54,800 --> 02:11:56,079
that wouldn't be for a virgin.

2237
02:11:58,560 --> 02:12:01,239
Speaker 2: Sincere hypocrite throws in five, says I'm noticing a pattern

2238
02:12:01,279 --> 02:12:06,880
of prioritizing the mind materialism, improving scripture through evidentialism, leading

2239
02:12:06,920 --> 02:12:13,159
to apostasy. Yeah, exactly. And a lot of their deconstructions,

2240
02:12:13,159 --> 02:12:17,399
as we've showed, are themselves limiting the context and scope

2241
02:12:17,439 --> 02:12:19,399
of whatever it is the topic they're talking about, and

2242
02:12:19,399 --> 02:12:23,840
then bringing sort of contemporary scientific empirical analysis on it

2243
02:12:24,920 --> 02:12:28,560
to try to disprove a sort of spiritual interpretation of

2244
02:12:28,600 --> 02:12:33,680
scripture and how that fits literally within the narrative. And

2245
02:12:33,720 --> 02:12:37,560
then we already saw AC's no nonsense spirituality comment has

2246
02:12:37,600 --> 02:12:41,720
funkal pops, Yes she does again. Thank you so much,

2247
02:12:41,760 --> 02:12:45,720
ACS for sponsoring this stream for me and Jay, And

2248
02:12:48,039 --> 02:12:50,439
five dollars came in over on the stream labs from

2249
02:12:50,720 --> 02:12:53,520
Nadid Hadad. He said, God bless you, Dph and j

2250
02:12:53,720 --> 02:12:55,239
feel like this is going to be a good stream

2251
02:12:55,640 --> 02:13:00,239
and chat all of the nubs like, thank you very much,

2252
02:13:00,359 --> 02:13:04,479
Nadeed and twenty dollars came in on donot chat, Ellie says,

2253
02:13:05,800 --> 02:13:09,520
keep on doing your great work, greeting from Germany. Ellie, well,

2254
02:13:09,560 --> 02:13:12,239
thank you very much, Ellie, and Pope Biscuit throws in

2255
02:13:12,279 --> 02:13:15,640
a superchat says, my last brain cell is struggling to

2256
02:13:15,640 --> 02:13:19,720
stay alive after McClellan, but thank you both for covering this.

2257
02:13:19,840 --> 02:13:21,720
I always learned something from you guys. Well, thank you

2258
02:13:21,800 --> 02:13:25,399
very much, Pope Biscuit, do appreciate that. And oh we

2259
02:13:25,560 --> 02:13:29,560
just got a couple more generous super chats on YouTube.

2260
02:13:30,119 --> 02:13:32,720
Ess Gerald throws in fifty dollars says, thanks for helping

2261
02:13:32,720 --> 02:13:35,239
me find the courage to step into a church again.

2262
02:13:35,279 --> 02:13:38,880
We'll glory to God for that, jess Gerald. I'm sure

2263
02:13:40,079 --> 02:13:42,680
Jay or I or anybody who's helped are humbled to

2264
02:13:42,800 --> 02:13:46,079
have helped in any way. And crash Man throws in

2265
02:13:46,119 --> 02:13:48,760
five dollars and says the best of streams on the internet,

2266
02:13:48,960 --> 02:13:50,840
love both of you and die or Well, thank you

2267
02:13:50,960 --> 02:13:55,039
very much. Crash Man, appreciate it and that's going to

2268
02:13:55,079 --> 02:13:59,640
do it for us tonight, guys. Do appreciate it? You guys,

2269
02:13:59,680 --> 02:14:02,359
I'm su where everybody here is already following Dire If

2270
02:14:02,359 --> 02:14:04,640
you don't, he's hyperlinked in the title goes to his

2271
02:14:04,800 --> 02:14:08,800
YouTube channel and you can follow him there. Jay, is

2272
02:14:08,840 --> 02:14:11,279
there anything you want to shill or tell people before

2273
02:14:11,319 --> 02:14:12,039
we hop off here?

2274
02:14:12,439 --> 02:14:14,800
Speaker 3: Well, we do have the icon Conference coming up at

2275
02:14:14,840 --> 02:14:17,119
our church here in Florida, So if people head over

2276
02:14:17,199 --> 02:14:21,640
to my website you'll see the live events link there.

2277
02:14:21,640 --> 02:14:23,720
If the post is up, you can get tickets to

2278
02:14:23,760 --> 02:14:26,359
the Icon Conference. And November eight it's a one day conference.

2279
02:14:26,359 --> 02:14:30,039
It's me, my priest, Father Degan, and Ayas another priest

2280
02:14:30,079 --> 02:14:33,319
of Father Theodore. I will all be giving one hour

2281
02:14:33,399 --> 02:14:37,680
talks on iconography, the symbolism, the meaning, the theology. So

2282
02:14:37,720 --> 02:14:40,640
it's going to be a great one day conference November eighth.

2283
02:14:40,960 --> 02:14:43,800
And then coming up in a couple of weeks is

2284
02:14:43,840 --> 02:14:46,800
the Brohemian Grove event, which is more of a comedy

2285
02:14:46,960 --> 02:14:50,399
conspiracy two day event, also here in Florida. You can

2286
02:14:50,399 --> 02:14:52,319
get tickets to that as well at the website. So

2287
02:14:52,359 --> 02:14:56,760
those two things are coming up. That's all I can

2288
02:14:56,800 --> 02:14:57,079
think of.

2289
02:14:57,479 --> 02:14:59,840
Speaker 2: You and Jamie, have any damage, do you guys just

2290
02:15:00,279 --> 02:15:00,760
in Florida.

2291
02:15:02,039 --> 02:15:04,800
Speaker 3: No, it's Saint Augustine's fine. It didn't hit here.

2292
02:15:04,920 --> 02:15:07,600
Speaker 2: That's good. That's good. Oh and then AC just threw

2293
02:15:07,640 --> 02:15:10,680
in another twenty bucks. He says, thanks guys, excellent stream. Well,

2294
02:15:10,680 --> 02:15:13,720
thank you so much, Ac, and thanks for consoring and

2295
02:15:13,800 --> 02:15:16,159
supporting our work. We do appreciate it, brother, thank you

2296
02:15:16,239 --> 02:15:19,319
very much. So all right, guys, that's going to do it.

2297
02:15:19,680 --> 02:15:22,760
I uh will see you guys potentially tomorrow or Saturday,

2298
02:15:23,159 --> 02:15:26,840
and as always, until then, God bless

2299
02:15:27,039 --> 02:15:27,800
Speaker 3: All right, thanks man,