WEBVTT 1 00:00:03.480 --> 00:00:03.560 Ah. 2 00:00:03.799 --> 00:00:07.000 This is Lewis for Requt from Jacksonville, Alabama, and I 3 00:00:07.120 --> 00:00:10.839 play at the Cane Creek Golf Course in Aniston, Alabama. 4 00:00:11.240 --> 00:00:14.839 This is Golf Smarter number nine eighty two. In terms 5 00:00:14.880 --> 00:00:17.160 of what you say about flow states, Yeah, you're right. 6 00:00:17.480 --> 00:00:20.199 It's actually a very relaxed state of mind. Your brain 7 00:00:20.359 --> 00:00:24.039 goes into a relaxed brainwave state. It's off an alpha 8 00:00:24.079 --> 00:00:26.960 state or a theta brainwave state, rather than a really 9 00:00:27.039 --> 00:00:30.199 deeply focused state in the conventional sense. You know, the 10 00:00:30.280 --> 00:00:32.439 kind wave you are solving a mass problem. You might 11 00:00:32.479 --> 00:00:35.520 be spunching up your eyebrows. You know, the lines would 12 00:00:35.520 --> 00:00:37.840 come onto your forehead. That's not how we want to 13 00:00:37.840 --> 00:00:40.159 play golf. It's not how we want to perform in 14 00:00:40.200 --> 00:00:43.640 a lot of these scenarios, whether it's forming at the 15 00:00:43.640 --> 00:00:47.719 poker table, whether it's making a speech. Lots of studies incidentally, 16 00:00:47.719 --> 00:00:50.960 on jazz musicians in flow states. They go into a 17 00:00:51.039 --> 00:00:54.399 very relaxed state. But what they're doing is they're executing 18 00:00:54.479 --> 00:00:58.399 their skills in a very relaxed brainwave state, and you 19 00:00:58.479 --> 00:01:00.719 just slip into it, and it's the kind of thing 20 00:01:00.719 --> 00:01:02.240 where you come out of it and you go, wow, 21 00:01:02.439 --> 00:01:05.879 that felt so easy. And yet I was performing so well. 22 00:01:11.439 --> 00:01:15.359 The four stages of the flow state in golf and 23 00:01:15.599 --> 00:01:21.599 in life with Stephen Baker. This is Golf's Murder, sharing stories, 24 00:01:21.680 --> 00:01:24.879 tips and insights from great golf minds to help you 25 00:01:24.959 --> 00:01:27.560 lower your score and raise your golf IQ. 26 00:01:28.480 --> 00:01:30.159 There's your host, Fred Green. 27 00:01:30.680 --> 00:01:32.599 Welcome to the Golf Smurder Podcast. Stephen. 28 00:01:33.400 --> 00:01:35.000 Oh hey, Fred, great to be here. 29 00:01:35.200 --> 00:01:37.159 Thank you, Thank you so much for joining me today. 30 00:01:37.439 --> 00:01:39.239 Tell me what it is that you love about golf. 31 00:01:40.920 --> 00:01:44.799 Well, look, I like a lot of sport, and golf 32 00:01:44.959 --> 00:01:50.840 was something I came to in my mid twenties, and 33 00:01:51.200 --> 00:01:53.719 for me at that time, I was a courtroom lawyer. 34 00:01:54.439 --> 00:01:59.599 It was just the perfect escape. I used to on 35 00:01:59.719 --> 00:02:01.200 days when I knew I wasn't going to be in 36 00:02:01.200 --> 00:02:03.799 court the next day. I would put the clubs in 37 00:02:03.879 --> 00:02:06.560 my car, head off either to the range or to 38 00:02:06.640 --> 00:02:09.719 the golf course and play around. And it was just 39 00:02:09.840 --> 00:02:14.240 the perfect escape. And it was completely different. I mean 40 00:02:14.280 --> 00:02:17.520 I was used to playing. I suppose my first love 41 00:02:17.560 --> 00:02:24.240 in sport was soccer, of course, but you know it's 42 00:02:24.319 --> 00:02:26.039 not something you can just say, oh, I'm not in 43 00:02:26.080 --> 00:02:28.719 court tomorrow's let's go and play a game of football. 44 00:02:29.479 --> 00:02:32.439 You need a lot of people to do that. And 45 00:02:33.240 --> 00:02:35.800 I got into golf. It was really through my father 46 00:02:35.879 --> 00:02:37.599 in law, who was a very good golfer. He was 47 00:02:37.599 --> 00:02:40.800 a scratch golfer and he got me into it and 48 00:02:41.319 --> 00:02:44.360 I was fascinated, because I'll be honest with you, at first, 49 00:02:44.360 --> 00:02:47.000 I found it so hard. You know. I was used 50 00:02:47.000 --> 00:02:50.479 to sports where I could just instinctively, you know, I 51 00:02:50.479 --> 00:02:52.280 could see a ball, I could make connection with it, 52 00:02:52.319 --> 00:02:56.439 and I couldn't really believe how badly frankly I was 53 00:02:57.159 --> 00:02:59.960 playing with a ball that was stationary. I mean, how 54 00:03:00.080 --> 00:03:04.120 how can it be this hard? But it was. But 55 00:03:04.199 --> 00:03:09.479 it soon bit me, and yeah, I really got into it. 56 00:03:09.560 --> 00:03:12.280 I moved to a part of the world here where 57 00:03:12.360 --> 00:03:15.680 there are some beautiful golf courses. You know, my local 58 00:03:15.719 --> 00:03:20.240 course is a wonderful links course. I love links courses. 59 00:03:20.879 --> 00:03:23.439 Just down the coast from me, there's a great course 60 00:03:23.800 --> 00:03:29.159 place called Burnham and Barrow. Further down the coast there's 61 00:03:29.719 --> 00:03:34.960 some wonderful courses in Cornwall and then up in Scotland. 62 00:03:35.080 --> 00:03:38.879 Scotland is golfing heaven. And you know what I really 63 00:03:38.919 --> 00:03:40.879 love about it is you can you can build a 64 00:03:41.080 --> 00:03:45.639 holiday around going going and playing golf and everybody has 65 00:03:45.680 --> 00:03:47.960 a good time because you're usually in beautiful parts of 66 00:03:47.960 --> 00:03:51.840 the world. So yeah, that was really how I got 67 00:03:51.840 --> 00:03:55.800 into it. I'd love to say I was a wonderful golfer. 68 00:03:56.759 --> 00:04:01.240 I'm a modest golfer, but doesn't stop me enjoying it 69 00:04:01.280 --> 00:04:03.400 a lot, and it doesn't stop me being fascinated with 70 00:04:04.319 --> 00:04:07.800 how to improve, which kind of ties in with what 71 00:04:07.879 --> 00:04:11.639 I do generally in terms of mental performance across the 72 00:04:11.680 --> 00:04:12.800 whole range of fields. 73 00:04:13.800 --> 00:04:15.879 Okay, so you got there before I did, but that's 74 00:04:15.919 --> 00:04:20.920 where we were going. Were you ever in a place 75 00:04:20.959 --> 00:04:23.920 where you can incorporate what you're teaching today to your 76 00:04:23.959 --> 00:04:26.439 golf game or you've they've not really met in the 77 00:04:26.439 --> 00:04:27.040 middle yet. 78 00:04:27.920 --> 00:04:33.800 Yeah, I mean definitely. It's I've brought more calmness to 79 00:04:33.879 --> 00:04:35.680 my golf game. I used to get you know, I'm 80 00:04:35.720 --> 00:04:42.279 not gonna lie. I got frustrated them, absolutely, But now I, 81 00:04:43.399 --> 00:04:47.720 you know, a enjoy it more and b think as 82 00:04:47.720 --> 00:04:51.959 a result, I am better. You know. Sure, I've still 83 00:04:52.000 --> 00:04:55.160 got huge amounts of technical skills I need to upgrade on, 84 00:04:55.279 --> 00:04:57.920 but what I have managed to do is at least 85 00:04:57.920 --> 00:05:00.920 make sure that when I do play, not this big 86 00:05:00.959 --> 00:05:05.079 gap between you know, my technical game and how I 87 00:05:05.160 --> 00:05:09.199 execute because of my emotions. And definitely the old one 88 00:05:09.199 --> 00:05:10.720 of the old traits of you know, you hit a 89 00:05:10.759 --> 00:05:12.639 bad shot and then you go immediately and hit another 90 00:05:12.680 --> 00:05:15.560 one because you're still mad about the last one. That's 91 00:05:15.560 --> 00:05:17.000 something I've eradicated. 92 00:05:18.079 --> 00:05:21.000 That's good. You know, we have a saying here on 93 00:05:21.160 --> 00:05:24.600 Golf Smarter that's been around almost as long as the podcast, 94 00:05:24.639 --> 00:05:28.079 which is never follow a bad shot with a stupid. 95 00:05:27.759 --> 00:05:31.600 Shot, exactly exactly. And that's easier said than done. Right, 96 00:05:32.040 --> 00:05:35.360 Oh yeah, you know, because effectively what happens there is 97 00:05:35.399 --> 00:05:37.000 our emotions just get a grip. 98 00:05:36.720 --> 00:05:42.920 Of us and exactly exactly, and that effectively, I suppose 99 00:05:42.959 --> 00:05:48.360 the lessons I've learned through effectively my coaching practice are 100 00:05:48.439 --> 00:05:49.959 something I've been able to transfer. 101 00:05:50.319 --> 00:05:52.079 I wish I'd had them earlier in my life. Not 102 00:05:52.199 --> 00:05:55.639 just in golf, but I mean I work with not 103 00:05:55.839 --> 00:06:00.079 just professional sports people, but I work with people in business, 104 00:06:00.680 --> 00:06:08.079 in professional fields, knowledge professionals, and effectively, the same processes apply. 105 00:06:08.839 --> 00:06:11.160 What we want to do is be able to get 106 00:06:11.160 --> 00:06:13.720 control of our emotions rather than allowing them to carry 107 00:06:13.800 --> 00:06:16.360 us along. And that happens on the golf course, but 108 00:06:16.480 --> 00:06:19.680 it happens in a whole host of other contexts as well. 109 00:06:21.079 --> 00:06:27.160 So he said, you were a courtroom lawyer. Yes, I 110 00:06:27.279 --> 00:06:29.680 read that you were also a professional poker. 111 00:06:29.360 --> 00:06:32.160 Player, absolutely yeah. 112 00:06:32.199 --> 00:06:34.360 And now you're a life coach. 113 00:06:35.120 --> 00:06:39.560 Absolutely yeah. Yeah. I one thing I came to realize 114 00:06:39.600 --> 00:06:43.519 I became a professional poker player. And then there's this 115 00:06:43.600 --> 00:06:48.759 thing within poker that they're called stables, And basically what 116 00:06:48.839 --> 00:06:51.240 it is is it's groups of players who are backed 117 00:06:51.279 --> 00:06:54.399 by a financial backer to play. It's a way of 118 00:06:54.480 --> 00:06:59.319 scaling within poker. So if you think, wait a minute, 119 00:06:59.319 --> 00:07:01.959 we can coach these people to play at a certain level, 120 00:07:02.800 --> 00:07:05.680 we can make money off all of them. Well, they'll 121 00:07:05.720 --> 00:07:08.319 take some of the profits, we keep some of the profits. 122 00:07:09.120 --> 00:07:14.000 And I joined one of these organizations, did well within it, 123 00:07:14.079 --> 00:07:17.399 and then I became a poker coach. So I then 124 00:07:17.439 --> 00:07:19.279 became one of the people who coached the players who 125 00:07:19.360 --> 00:07:22.199 came into the organization. And one of the things that 126 00:07:22.240 --> 00:07:25.160 I really realized was I love coaching. So that was 127 00:07:25.240 --> 00:07:28.800 number one. I love coaching. I kind of look back 128 00:07:28.839 --> 00:07:30.439 on my time as a lawyer when I had a 129 00:07:30.519 --> 00:07:33.879 law firm, and I realized that actually I really enjoyed 130 00:07:33.920 --> 00:07:37.120 mentoring people within the law firm. And helping them be better. 131 00:07:38.199 --> 00:07:40.279 But the other thing that I realized was I was 132 00:07:40.319 --> 00:07:44.040 really fascinated with the way psychology worked. One of the 133 00:07:44.040 --> 00:07:48.160 things that happens in poker is we again. You'd think 134 00:07:48.199 --> 00:07:49.959 it's a bit like golf. You think we'll wait anek, 135 00:07:50.000 --> 00:07:52.720 I've got time to make a decision here. How can 136 00:07:52.759 --> 00:07:55.879 I make a bad decision? But it happens all the 137 00:07:55.920 --> 00:08:00.160 time in poker. People can immediately and I experienced this myself. Well, 138 00:08:01.000 --> 00:08:03.160 they can say, right, I know what I should do here, 139 00:08:03.199 --> 00:08:05.240 and yet somehow I've come away not having made the 140 00:08:05.319 --> 00:08:09.800 right decision. And I was really fascinated in that it 141 00:08:09.959 --> 00:08:12.959 tied in with what i'd work The field i'd worked 142 00:08:12.959 --> 00:08:17.720 in within the law predominantly was clients who'd had psychiatric 143 00:08:17.839 --> 00:08:21.240 and psychological injuries. So you have to become very familiar 144 00:08:21.279 --> 00:08:25.959 with psychology and psychiatry to understand how the brain works 145 00:08:26.000 --> 00:08:29.800 so that you can cross examine experts and that kind 146 00:08:29.839 --> 00:08:34.320 of that love of coaching plus that interest in psychology 147 00:08:35.720 --> 00:08:38.440 really led me down the path of coaching, and that's 148 00:08:38.600 --> 00:08:40.200 that's why I'm doing what I'm doing today. 149 00:08:40.919 --> 00:08:45.840 Hmm. Fascinating. I never made the connection between, you know, 150 00:08:46.000 --> 00:08:53.480 poker and golf neither being reactive, if you can use 151 00:08:53.519 --> 00:08:58.000 the word sport being reactive are like you know, playing soccer, 152 00:08:58.080 --> 00:09:04.480 football or basketball tennis. You're really you're on a reactive 153 00:09:04.600 --> 00:09:11.919 level there. But with those two competitions you can think 154 00:09:11.960 --> 00:09:17.600 about it absolutely, which is probably the deadliest part of 155 00:09:17.639 --> 00:09:20.639 the game, right because you can say you second guess 156 00:09:20.679 --> 00:09:22.399 yourself absolutely. 157 00:09:22.440 --> 00:09:26.000 And you see this even within soccer. There's particular moments 158 00:09:26.000 --> 00:09:28.440 in soccer. A classic one is is a penalty kick 159 00:09:28.960 --> 00:09:31.679 and you'll see in a big, high pressure situation and 160 00:09:31.720 --> 00:09:33.639 you can look at a player as they're walking up 161 00:09:33.679 --> 00:09:36.159 to that penalty spot with the ball under their arm, 162 00:09:36.399 --> 00:09:39.720 and you can say, this guy is feeling it. This 163 00:09:39.799 --> 00:09:45.559 guy ishaking absolutely, and he's all the time in the 164 00:09:45.559 --> 00:09:49.879 world to think. And that is where some problematical things 165 00:09:49.919 --> 00:09:52.799 can happen unless you've trained your brain to cope with them. 166 00:09:53.159 --> 00:09:55.399 I can still remember it's like an image in my 167 00:09:55.559 --> 00:09:59.559 mind coming up to a shot on my home course 168 00:10:00.399 --> 00:10:04.080 and thinking, you know, as my mind I could hear 169 00:10:04.120 --> 00:10:06.799 the thoughts going through my mind about, oh my goodness, 170 00:10:06.799 --> 00:10:09.840 because because to the right was the sea is the sea, 171 00:10:10.559 --> 00:10:14.600 and and I developed a slice and as I was 172 00:10:14.639 --> 00:10:17.879 walking up to this shot. My mind was going, don't 173 00:10:17.879 --> 00:10:21.120 slice it, don't slice it, you know, and and it's like, 174 00:10:21.360 --> 00:10:23.919 guess what, you know. It's it's when when somebody says, 175 00:10:23.960 --> 00:10:26.320 don't think about pink elephants, all you can think about 176 00:10:26.399 --> 00:10:28.000 is pink elephants, right, And. 177 00:10:28.000 --> 00:10:30.000 Well, when you say don't slice it, don't slice it. 178 00:10:30.039 --> 00:10:32.200 To me, the only two words you're hearing the last 179 00:10:32.200 --> 00:10:33.200 two slice. 180 00:10:32.840 --> 00:10:37.639 It, yeah, slicing, Yeah, you know when you don't absolutely 181 00:10:37.840 --> 00:10:41.919 and you know, it's it's interesting because like for me, 182 00:10:42.440 --> 00:10:44.399 soccer was just instinctive. 183 00:10:44.720 --> 00:10:47.639 I mean, I've you know, done martial arts as well. 184 00:10:47.639 --> 00:10:52.320 When I when I when I fought, and you know, 185 00:10:52.399 --> 00:10:55.840 I've won won my regional championship. I remember just not 186 00:10:56.000 --> 00:11:00.440 thinking and I think high level sports, you what you 187 00:11:00.519 --> 00:11:03.879 do is you train your skills. But then when you're 188 00:11:04.000 --> 00:11:08.600 in performance in a flow state, there's no thinking, it's 189 00:11:08.720 --> 00:11:12.360 just doing. And it's that ability, as you say, to 190 00:11:13.320 --> 00:11:17.919 just be in the moment, leave your ego to one side. 191 00:11:17.960 --> 00:11:20.519 And this is actually something we know from the study 192 00:11:20.519 --> 00:11:22.799 of flow states that something that happens in a flow 193 00:11:22.879 --> 00:11:26.960 state is it's quite a mouthful. It's called transient hypofontality, 194 00:11:26.960 --> 00:11:32.120 and it means that the prefrontal cortex is actually downgraded. Now, 195 00:11:32.159 --> 00:11:37.600 the prefrontal cortex is associated with with, you know, the 196 00:11:37.759 --> 00:11:41.080 logical thinking part of our brain, the decision making part 197 00:11:41.120 --> 00:11:43.080 of our brain, and we might think, well, why would 198 00:11:43.080 --> 00:11:46.159 we want to downgrade that, We want it all engaged, 199 00:11:46.200 --> 00:11:50.080 But it's definitely true that we can overthink when we're 200 00:11:50.120 --> 00:11:54.320 actually performing in sport, and that part of our brains 201 00:11:54.360 --> 00:11:57.879 also associated with ego and emotions. And one of the 202 00:11:57.919 --> 00:11:59.679 things that happens in a flow state is you let 203 00:11:59.720 --> 00:12:03.559 all of that go and you just do But you 204 00:12:03.679 --> 00:12:05.799 have to train the brain to get into that state. 205 00:12:05.919 --> 00:12:09.360 That's that's the difficulty. We've probably all experienced flow states 206 00:12:09.360 --> 00:12:12.559 from time to time, but what we now know is 207 00:12:12.639 --> 00:12:14.960 we can definitely do things to get there more often, 208 00:12:15.399 --> 00:12:18.440 and that's useful whether you're making decisions at a poker table, 209 00:12:18.600 --> 00:12:22.080 in a in a you know, courtroom, you know, in 210 00:12:22.120 --> 00:12:24.559 a business negotiation, or on a golf course. 211 00:12:32.080 --> 00:12:34.240 The fascinating part about flow state, and I want to 212 00:12:34.240 --> 00:12:37.639 get really deep into this it d Somebody wrote a 213 00:12:37.639 --> 00:12:40.360 review about our podcast, and because Fred is obsessed with 214 00:12:40.440 --> 00:12:43.039 the mental game, it's like, are you saying that as 215 00:12:43.080 --> 00:12:46.960 a good thing or a bad thing because we all 216 00:12:47.000 --> 00:12:50.519 know what golf is not just about hitting a ball, right, 217 00:12:51.240 --> 00:12:55.080 you know, playing golf and hitting golf balls are very 218 00:12:55.080 --> 00:12:58.440 different things, and you know a lot of it is 219 00:12:58.639 --> 00:13:01.559 that doesn't get discussed and you're taking lessons because you're 220 00:13:01.559 --> 00:13:04.559 just learning how to hit a ball. Is you know, 221 00:13:04.799 --> 00:13:11.120 the strategic part and the mental part. So yeah, I 222 00:13:11.159 --> 00:13:14.000 do get obsessed with this kind of a topic, but 223 00:13:14.399 --> 00:13:18.879 I think it's really really helpful for all. Now, you 224 00:13:18.919 --> 00:13:21.480 were talking about flow state. You know, when you're getting 225 00:13:21.519 --> 00:13:26.519 into the flow state, you really don't recognize it while 226 00:13:26.519 --> 00:13:30.320 you're there. It's almost like a post mortem. It's always like, oh, 227 00:13:30.399 --> 00:13:32.679 I was in a flow state, Then how did I 228 00:13:32.720 --> 00:13:35.240 get there? How did I fall out? How do I 229 00:13:35.279 --> 00:13:39.519 get back? And I think that's primarily what we're discussing today, right. 230 00:13:40.240 --> 00:13:43.559 It is it is. I mean, just circling back to 231 00:13:43.600 --> 00:13:46.559 what you said a second ago about the importance of 232 00:13:46.639 --> 00:13:50.960 mental gain. I think anybody who stood on the driving 233 00:13:51.039 --> 00:13:55.919 range and hit a sequence of very good shots and 234 00:13:55.960 --> 00:14:00.399 then gone to the course and when it's a shot 235 00:14:00.440 --> 00:14:04.120 which matters, has not been able to reproduce anything like 236 00:14:04.200 --> 00:14:07.919 that shot that might there is the importance of the 237 00:14:07.919 --> 00:14:12.240 mental game, because there is a gap very often between 238 00:14:12.759 --> 00:14:19.120 what our theoretical technical skills should produce and what when 239 00:14:19.159 --> 00:14:21.600 we are put under pressure, we actually do produce. And 240 00:14:21.639 --> 00:14:25.440 this is true in a whole realm of fields. You know, 241 00:14:25.480 --> 00:14:28.679 as I say, I work with I work with knowledge professionals, 242 00:14:28.679 --> 00:14:32.720 I work with sports professionals, and very often what we 243 00:14:32.759 --> 00:14:36.399 are focusing on is this question of, well, why am 244 00:14:36.399 --> 00:14:39.360 I not producing the skills at the level I am 245 00:14:39.480 --> 00:14:42.320 capable of. So if we if we sort of gave 246 00:14:42.360 --> 00:14:45.679 ourselves a scale of zero to one hundred on our 247 00:14:45.799 --> 00:14:49.120 golf skills, yes, there's work to do with your you know, 248 00:14:49.240 --> 00:14:52.559 your professional, your instructor, your coach, who is going to 249 00:14:52.639 --> 00:14:56.639 work on actually hitting the ball well. If you get 250 00:14:56.679 --> 00:14:58.320 to the point where it's like, you know, I can 251 00:14:58.399 --> 00:15:03.720 hit that shot well nine times out of ten in practice, 252 00:15:04.679 --> 00:15:08.000 but I get to the course and guess what, it's 253 00:15:08.039 --> 00:15:11.759 nothing like nine out of ten. That, right there is 254 00:15:12.200 --> 00:15:16.240 is the mental game. And when somebody says, oh, you know, 255 00:15:16.480 --> 00:15:18.440 why are we bothering about the mental game, Just learn 256 00:15:18.519 --> 00:15:23.879 to hit the ball better, that's it's missing the point. 257 00:15:24.080 --> 00:15:26.320 In terms of what you say about flow states, Yeah, 258 00:15:26.360 --> 00:15:29.399 you're right, this is the whole point, it's actually a 259 00:15:29.480 --> 00:15:33.120 very relaxed state of mind. Your brain actually goes into 260 00:15:34.600 --> 00:15:37.879 a relaxed brainwave state. It's often an alpha state or 261 00:15:37.879 --> 00:15:41.840 a THET brainwave state, rather than a really deeply focused 262 00:15:41.919 --> 00:15:44.559 state in the conventional sense, you know, the kind where 263 00:15:44.639 --> 00:15:47.200 you're you know, if you're solving a math problem, you 264 00:15:47.240 --> 00:15:50.840 might be scrunching up your eyebrows and your you know, 265 00:15:50.879 --> 00:15:53.240 the lines would come onto your forehead. That's not how 266 00:15:53.279 --> 00:15:55.879 we want to play golf. It's not how we want 267 00:15:55.919 --> 00:15:59.679 to perform in a lot of these scenarios, you know, 268 00:16:00.039 --> 00:16:03.720 whether it's performing at the poker table, whether it's making 269 00:16:03.840 --> 00:16:09.840 a speech. Lots of studies incidentally on jazz musicians in 270 00:16:09.879 --> 00:16:13.399 flow states, and again it's very they go into a 271 00:16:13.480 --> 00:16:16.840 very relaxed state. But what they're doing is they're executing 272 00:16:16.919 --> 00:16:21.519 their skills in a very relaxed brain wave state, and 273 00:16:21.559 --> 00:16:23.840 you just slip into it and it's the kind of 274 00:16:23.879 --> 00:16:25.639 thing where you come out of it and you go, wow, 275 00:16:26.000 --> 00:16:29.480 that felt so easy, and yet I was performing so well. 276 00:16:31.000 --> 00:16:33.440 And we've learned more about the brain in the last 277 00:16:33.480 --> 00:16:37.240 twenty years as a result of modern brain imaging techniques, 278 00:16:37.240 --> 00:16:40.399 and we kind of knew in the previous two thousand years, 279 00:16:41.440 --> 00:16:46.559 and what we actually know now is how we can 280 00:16:46.600 --> 00:16:51.519 actually manipulate our environment and the way we prepare to 281 00:16:51.759 --> 00:16:54.759 get into these flow states more often. And the great 282 00:16:54.799 --> 00:16:58.919 news is it's actually extremely efficient to be in a 283 00:16:58.919 --> 00:17:03.360 flow state. Involve huge amounts of hard work. It does involve. Look, 284 00:17:03.559 --> 00:17:06.960 you know, if somebody said I've not practiced a bunker 285 00:17:07.000 --> 00:17:10.599 shot for two years, If you put me in a 286 00:17:10.599 --> 00:17:14.000 bunker and I was that person, I'll it'd be very 287 00:17:14.079 --> 00:17:16.240 hard to get into a flow state because my mind 288 00:17:16.279 --> 00:17:18.240 will recognize the fact that I've not got the core 289 00:17:18.319 --> 00:17:22.559 skills to perform. If I've done the right kind of 290 00:17:22.640 --> 00:17:26.200 practice and I've done the work around getting into a 291 00:17:26.200 --> 00:17:28.799 flow state, I will be able to relax and be 292 00:17:28.920 --> 00:17:31.920 much more likely to reproduce what I do, what I'm 293 00:17:31.920 --> 00:17:35.960 capable of from the training ground on the actual field 294 00:17:35.960 --> 00:17:39.119 of play. And that's what happens in a flow state. 295 00:17:39.200 --> 00:17:41.960 You are able to relax. And we've seen it with 296 00:17:42.440 --> 00:17:45.240 great sports people, right you know, we think about I 297 00:17:45.279 --> 00:17:48.519 was thinking before this podcast of moments where I've thought 298 00:17:48.559 --> 00:17:50.680 of great golfers and you see them in flow and 299 00:17:50.720 --> 00:17:53.079 it was a shot Fred Couples played. I think it 300 00:17:53.160 --> 00:17:55.880 was years ago in the Masters, and he hit it 301 00:17:55.920 --> 00:18:00.559 and he just went oh baby as he hit it, 302 00:18:00.640 --> 00:18:02.799 and that was just like that was flow. It was 303 00:18:03.000 --> 00:18:12.799 just pure relaxation, just doing his thing, not overthinking. You know, 304 00:18:14.000 --> 00:18:18.119 you took Ernie L's to be easy. Everything looked effortless, right, 305 00:18:18.200 --> 00:18:22.640 and that's how Yeah, and that's what we want to produce. 306 00:18:22.680 --> 00:18:25.559 Whereas a lot of a lot of people bring tension 307 00:18:26.559 --> 00:18:30.839 to what they do, be it round of golf, making 308 00:18:30.880 --> 00:18:34.319 a speech, pearing. You know. Again as a lawyer, you know, 309 00:18:34.440 --> 00:18:36.559 used to be involved in a lot of negotiations, but 310 00:18:36.599 --> 00:18:43.519 you want to be relaxed. That conveys authority. So this 311 00:18:43.599 --> 00:18:45.640 is what this is what the training I do with 312 00:18:45.759 --> 00:18:50.400 clients in whatever context tries to bring about this state 313 00:18:50.480 --> 00:18:53.559 of relaxed focus. So it's the ability to zone in 314 00:18:53.559 --> 00:18:55.799 on what you want to do, but without bringing all 315 00:18:55.839 --> 00:18:59.200 sorts of thoughts which are unhelpful into the moment. 316 00:19:01.359 --> 00:19:08.680 Flow state jazz, it's the perfect combination. It's the perfect 317 00:19:08.720 --> 00:19:13.480 description of flow state is jazz. Yeah, you know, pure jazz. 318 00:19:13.720 --> 00:19:17.559 It's just letting it go, trusting what's there and letting 319 00:19:17.640 --> 00:19:21.680 it let it come through you. I love that, Yeah, 320 00:19:21.799 --> 00:19:22.799 I mean that's awesome. 321 00:19:23.720 --> 00:19:28.279 You know, Basically, the science has identified that there were 322 00:19:28.279 --> 00:19:30.839 four stages to the flow cycle. And I won't go 323 00:19:30.880 --> 00:19:33.079 through the morning detail today, but number one is. 324 00:19:36.839 --> 00:19:39.160 The four stages don't tease me and leave me. 325 00:19:39.799 --> 00:19:43.000 Okay, So the four stages are struggle. Now, people don't 326 00:19:43.000 --> 00:19:45.279 want to hear that when when they're talking about flow states. 327 00:19:45.279 --> 00:19:47.880 But that is where you learn your core skills. So 328 00:19:47.920 --> 00:19:51.359 when we're talking about the jazz musician who produces this 329 00:19:51.599 --> 00:19:57.319 beautiful improvisation, at some point they will have learned the 330 00:19:57.400 --> 00:19:59.880 core skills. They will have done their scales, they will 331 00:19:59.880 --> 00:20:02.200 have learnt that piece of music in its most basic 332 00:20:02.759 --> 00:20:09.119 for but they'll have got that down. So like for us, 333 00:20:09.240 --> 00:20:12.920 it will be okay, I'm going to basically have some 334 00:20:13.039 --> 00:20:15.319 core skills in terms of the way I drive the ball, 335 00:20:15.319 --> 00:20:17.599 the way I hit my iron shots, the way I 336 00:20:17.680 --> 00:20:19.160 hit the ball out of a bunker. I'm going to 337 00:20:19.480 --> 00:20:21.079 get that, and I'm going to get it to a 338 00:20:21.119 --> 00:20:24.839 point where it feels I've at least got something which 339 00:20:24.880 --> 00:20:31.759 is reliable and repeatable. That's that's unavoidable work. Then there's release. Now, 340 00:20:31.799 --> 00:20:33.640 this is the interesting thing, and this is the lesson 341 00:20:33.680 --> 00:20:38.160 I wish I'd had when I started playing golf, I 342 00:20:38.240 --> 00:20:40.960 you know, when I went to the driving range, I 343 00:20:41.039 --> 00:20:44.720 just wanted to hit as many balls as possible. And 344 00:20:44.960 --> 00:20:48.200 one of the things that the brain does is it 345 00:20:48.920 --> 00:20:54.000 wants to break every now and then. So let's say 346 00:20:54.000 --> 00:20:55.599 I do it the way I should have done, which 347 00:20:55.680 --> 00:20:59.000 was okay, let's just focus on a particular technique that 348 00:20:59.039 --> 00:21:02.720 I want to integrate into my swing. Then step away, 349 00:21:03.319 --> 00:21:05.319 step away, go for a walk, go and have a 350 00:21:05.359 --> 00:21:09.039 cup of coffee for fifteen minutes, and the brain will 351 00:21:09.079 --> 00:21:15.240 subconsciously work on integrating that it's learning. And you only 352 00:21:15.240 --> 00:21:16.799 even need to think about You only need to go 353 00:21:16.839 --> 00:21:18.559 away and say I just need to think a bit 354 00:21:18.599 --> 00:21:20.400 more about this. The brain will do it. This is 355 00:21:21.200 --> 00:21:25.640 really vital for a lot of skills. It probably seems 356 00:21:25.720 --> 00:21:30.079 more logical to apply it to knowledge professionals. I mean, 357 00:21:30.119 --> 00:21:34.079 Albert Einstein used to after he'd done his working the lab, 358 00:21:34.119 --> 00:21:35.920 he used to go on late Geneva and go fishing, 359 00:21:36.880 --> 00:21:39.880 and he actually found he had his greatest insights there. 360 00:21:39.960 --> 00:21:43.880 This was this release phase of the flow cycle in operation. 361 00:21:44.680 --> 00:21:46.720 The brain goes into a more relaxed state and it 362 00:21:46.799 --> 00:21:50.519 actually knits all that you've been trying to work on together, 363 00:21:51.279 --> 00:21:54.240 So that's really important. And then there's the flow phase itself, 364 00:21:55.880 --> 00:21:59.119 and what happens in the flow phase is there's huge 365 00:21:59.119 --> 00:22:01.599 amounts of dope men and Europe and ethrine driven to 366 00:22:01.640 --> 00:22:06.680 the brain and they drive this state of effortless focus. 367 00:22:07.640 --> 00:22:11.640 And then also important is the recovery phase, and there's 368 00:22:11.720 --> 00:22:14.720 lots we can talk about there. There's physical recovery, but 369 00:22:14.720 --> 00:22:19.960 there's also mental recovery. Again, I tend to do talk 370 00:22:19.960 --> 00:22:25.480 about this in more detail with professional athletes, but it's 371 00:22:25.519 --> 00:22:28.880 definitely applicable to people you know who are working, for example, 372 00:22:28.920 --> 00:22:31.680 in a knowledge profession, and I think a lot of 373 00:22:31.680 --> 00:22:35.359 people just work extremely hard and don't understand the importance 374 00:22:35.960 --> 00:22:39.240 of giving themselves proper recovery to allow themselves to get 375 00:22:39.240 --> 00:22:41.920 into a high performance state. Again, so those are the 376 00:22:41.920 --> 00:22:44.480 four phases. Now, what that actually looks like for an 377 00:22:44.519 --> 00:22:49.079 individual very much depends on what their life looks like, 378 00:22:49.640 --> 00:22:53.759 but that's something we work on. I then use one 379 00:22:53.759 --> 00:22:55.640 of the tools I do use, and I know you've 380 00:22:55.640 --> 00:22:58.400 had other podcast guests talk about hypnotherapy, but I use 381 00:22:58.480 --> 00:23:05.200 hypnotherapy to help integrate these skills into the way people 382 00:23:05.240 --> 00:23:09.240 approach whatever it is their challenge is. So you know, 383 00:23:09.319 --> 00:23:11.400 if it's a round of golf, I will get them 384 00:23:11.400 --> 00:23:15.680 to visualize being in a flow state. They have experienced 385 00:23:15.759 --> 00:23:18.440 probably moments of a flow state in their life before, 386 00:23:19.279 --> 00:23:22.279 and we will leverage that to get them back into 387 00:23:22.319 --> 00:23:24.559 that state on the golf course. We'll do other work 388 00:23:24.599 --> 00:23:27.759 to make sure that everything's aligned to achieve that, but 389 00:23:27.799 --> 00:23:31.599 we'll also engage memories of having been in that state, 390 00:23:31.640 --> 00:23:34.480 even if it's not in a golf a round of golf. 391 00:23:34.599 --> 00:23:36.720 I mean, if somebody says to me, I've never been 392 00:23:36.759 --> 00:23:39.440 in a flow state on the golf course, I'll say, 393 00:23:39.440 --> 00:23:42.599 have you ever been in a flow state anywhere? And 394 00:23:42.960 --> 00:23:45.200 they usually will have been, and I will use that 395 00:23:45.359 --> 00:23:49.000 memory to transfer that state of mind to the golf course. 396 00:23:55.880 --> 00:23:58.839 When we're on the driving range and we hit ten 397 00:23:58.920 --> 00:24:03.480 shots as we're working on something and nine of them, 398 00:24:03.519 --> 00:24:08.440 as you said, go, well, that one doesn't. That's the 399 00:24:08.440 --> 00:24:11.200 one that we get nervous about when we're walking up 400 00:24:11.240 --> 00:24:13.960 to the shot on the course because the course, on 401 00:24:14.000 --> 00:24:18.240