WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.120 --> 00:00:01.159 Tuesday afternoon. 2 00:00:01.199 --> 00:00:04.639 We are looking at about fourteen minutes past the hour 3 00:00:04.799 --> 00:00:06.679 of two o'clock. 4 00:00:06.719 --> 00:00:07.719 We're a little late today. 5 00:00:07.799 --> 00:00:11.199 We had some fun crosstalk with Sean on this Tuesday afternoon. 6 00:00:11.240 --> 00:00:14.199 But as it is every single day, it's gonna have 7 00:00:14.240 --> 00:00:16.120 you along for the ride. Spence check, it's me on 8 00:00:16.199 --> 00:00:20.399 the mic. That's Porter Larsen beyond the Glass today. Happy 9 00:00:20.440 --> 00:00:23.480 Tuesday to you, beautiful day outside, and as it is 10 00:00:23.519 --> 00:00:26.160 every single day, it's gonna have you along for the ride. 11 00:00:26.559 --> 00:00:27.519 Jam Pack show. 12 00:00:27.920 --> 00:00:31.800 NBA Playoffs inching closer and closer to May the twelfth, 13 00:00:31.879 --> 00:00:34.280 which is the next date that will be interesting for. 14 00:00:34.159 --> 00:00:36.000 The Utah Jazz and Jazz fans. 15 00:00:36.600 --> 00:00:38.679 The Jazz once again for the third straight year not 16 00:00:38.840 --> 00:00:41.000 participating in the spring tournament. 17 00:00:42.159 --> 00:00:45.679 Not is the NBA Playoffs. So some fun games last night. 18 00:00:45.719 --> 00:00:49.520 We have four games tonight's well Tonight Slash this afternoon. 19 00:00:49.560 --> 00:00:53.280 There's gonna be one game that actually gets going while 20 00:00:53.280 --> 00:00:55.759 we're on air and may even be at like halftime 21 00:00:55.920 --> 00:00:57.119 by the time that we finish. 22 00:00:57.240 --> 00:00:58.399 So four o'clock today. 23 00:00:58.200 --> 00:01:01.600 On NBA TV, the Indiana Pacers are going to try 24 00:01:01.640 --> 00:01:05.400 to eliminate the Milwaukee Bucks. A lot of people wondering 25 00:01:05.439 --> 00:01:07.719 if this is the final game. Yannas Sante to Cumbo 26 00:01:07.840 --> 00:01:09.319 will be playing for Milwaukee. 27 00:01:09.879 --> 00:01:10.719 Indiana has been. 28 00:01:10.799 --> 00:01:14.040 Very impressive and should they advance, They're going to take 29 00:01:14.120 --> 00:01:18.040 on Donovan Mitchell and the Cleveland Cavaliers, who dog walked 30 00:01:18.239 --> 00:01:21.840 the Miami Heat last night. They were up by sixty 31 00:01:22.359 --> 00:01:24.959 at one point and ended up winning. 32 00:01:24.680 --> 00:01:26.040 By I believe fifty five. 33 00:01:26.959 --> 00:01:31.200 It is the largest single series plus minus in the 34 00:01:31.280 --> 00:01:34.359 history of the NBA Playoffs. The Cavs just ran away 35 00:01:34.359 --> 00:01:37.719 from Miami. Of course, Miami winning the play in style 36 00:01:37.799 --> 00:01:40.680 tournament to get in as the eighth seed, and their 37 00:01:40.719 --> 00:01:43.760 reward was just to get smoked by the Cleveland Cavaliers. 38 00:01:43.799 --> 00:01:46.439 Donovan's been really good. You know, we'll talk about this 39 00:01:46.519 --> 00:01:49.959 on the show today. We're not really used to as 40 00:01:50.079 --> 00:01:52.680 jazz fans here in Salt Lake City, we're not really 41 00:01:52.760 --> 00:01:56.680 used to seeing players that played here and played really 42 00:01:56.760 --> 00:01:59.760 well here go on to find extreme success in other 43 00:01:59.760 --> 00:02:03.280 play This kid is going to be the exception. Donovan's 44 00:02:03.280 --> 00:02:06.319 going to be the exception. For all the conversation about 45 00:02:06.319 --> 00:02:09.120 the calculated risk and I'm being kind of Nico Harrison 46 00:02:09.800 --> 00:02:12.439 that the Dallas Mavericks took by trading a twenty five 47 00:02:12.520 --> 00:02:14.960 year old generational superstar Luka Doncic. 48 00:02:15.759 --> 00:02:16.919 The Jazz did the same thing. 49 00:02:17.680 --> 00:02:20.000 Jazz did the same thing and trading away Donovan Mitchell 50 00:02:20.039 --> 00:02:23.080 as he was kind of approaching his prime. And now 51 00:02:23.280 --> 00:02:26.360 Jazz fans watching this Cleveland Cavaliers team and seeing what 52 00:02:26.400 --> 00:02:29.319 Donovan is able to do as he continues to grow. 53 00:02:30.120 --> 00:02:33.520 And then last night man great television with the Warriors 54 00:02:33.520 --> 00:02:37.319 in the Rockets just Gripping TV. Saw Golden State hang 55 00:02:37.360 --> 00:02:39.400 on at the end one nine to one six. Jimmy 56 00:02:39.400 --> 00:02:41.719 Butler did play after all the conversation about whether or 57 00:02:41.759 --> 00:02:44.400 not he was going to go, and he had fourteen 58 00:02:44.479 --> 00:02:46.560 points in the fourth quarter, hit all twelve of his 59 00:02:46.680 --> 00:02:49.840 free throws. Houston as a team missed twelve free throws. 60 00:02:50.400 --> 00:02:53.919 As a group, they were nineteen of thirty one. Draymond 61 00:02:53.919 --> 00:02:55.680 Green with a great defensive stand there at the end 62 00:02:55.680 --> 00:02:59.400 and Jimmy Butler with a grown up ground ass man 63 00:03:00.199 --> 00:03:02.520 winning rebound to seal the deal for Golden State. 64 00:03:02.639 --> 00:03:04.599 So move over to the action tonight. 65 00:03:04.639 --> 00:03:06.319 Like I said, there's gonna be a really early tip 66 00:03:06.360 --> 00:03:08.879 four o'clock on NBA TV. Is the Bucks and the 67 00:03:08.879 --> 00:03:12.080 Pacers also an NBA TV will be the Magic and 68 00:03:12.120 --> 00:03:15.919 the Celtics Boston trying to just eliminate Orlando. They're up 69 00:03:15.960 --> 00:03:18.759 three to one. Not sure if Drew Holliday is gonna play, 70 00:03:18.840 --> 00:03:19.280 not sure if. 71 00:03:19.159 --> 00:03:19.919 It even matters. 72 00:03:20.960 --> 00:03:23.680 Orlando's been pesky, but Boston I still think the best 73 00:03:23.680 --> 00:03:25.520 team in the East, although Cleveland will have something to 74 00:03:25.520 --> 00:03:28.280 say about it. And then the Pistons in the Knicks 75 00:03:28.280 --> 00:03:31.319 return to the world's most famous arena and the mecha 76 00:03:31.360 --> 00:03:33.479 of basketball in the heart of New York City, Madison 77 00:03:33.479 --> 00:03:36.159 Square Garden, where the Knicks will try to advance to 78 00:03:36.199 --> 00:03:38.360 the second round as they lead Detroit three to one. 79 00:03:38.400 --> 00:03:40.439 That's been a fun series as well, and then a 80 00:03:40.439 --> 00:03:42.400 lot of intrigue for the late night game. It's eight 81 00:03:42.400 --> 00:03:46.159 o'clock on Turner and TNT also has the Pistons in 82 00:03:46.199 --> 00:03:49.039 the Knicks, so it will be Clippers Nuggets eight o'clock 83 00:03:49.080 --> 00:03:51.479 Mountain time from Ball Arena and Denver, Colorado. 84 00:03:51.520 --> 00:03:52.439 That series is tied to. 85 00:03:52.439 --> 00:03:55.240 Two, and that's been a really cool series, fun series 86 00:03:55.240 --> 00:03:58.120 to watch as well. So NBA Playoff Action on the 87 00:03:58.159 --> 00:04:01.560 program today will kind of bring it around to talk 88 00:04:01.599 --> 00:04:03.520 a little Utah jazz to the prism of what we 89 00:04:03.520 --> 00:04:05.280 can learn from some of these teams that have been 90 00:04:05.280 --> 00:04:08.879 rebuilding and now we're actually playing games that matter. Get 91 00:04:08.919 --> 00:04:11.199 into some of that on the show. Alex Jensen and 92 00:04:11.240 --> 00:04:14.159 the Utah men's basketball staff added a piece yesterday and 93 00:04:14.560 --> 00:04:17.639 John much about him, but watching some highlights over the 94 00:04:17.680 --> 00:04:20.720 past twenty four hours, he's a really dynamic ball in hand, 95 00:04:20.720 --> 00:04:23.800 playmaking guard, which is exactly what Utah basketball did not 96 00:04:23.920 --> 00:04:28.279 have last year. College football transfer portal is closed, but 97 00:04:28.279 --> 00:04:30.480 we'll get to the latest in the college football world 98 00:04:30.519 --> 00:04:34.680 storylines NFL draft, which only saw two local players drafted. 99 00:04:35.279 --> 00:04:38.120 One youth Caleb Lohner goes to the Denver Broncos and 100 00:04:38.240 --> 00:04:41.480 Jalen Royals from Utah State drafted. No BYU players drafted 101 00:04:41.480 --> 00:04:44.279 this year, but we will get to the latest in 102 00:04:44.319 --> 00:04:47.399 the world of college football and if you care about 103 00:04:47.439 --> 00:04:51.639 such things, House first, NCUBA all of the legislation we're 104 00:04:51.680 --> 00:04:54.759 waiting to hear past to kind of understand what sort 105 00:04:54.759 --> 00:04:56.759 of guardrails and guidelines will be in place, so we'll 106 00:04:56.759 --> 00:04:58.399 get some of that stuff on the show as well. 107 00:04:58.959 --> 00:05:03.680 RSL continues their road heavy April slash May schedule. 108 00:05:03.680 --> 00:05:05.639 As we are about to turn our calendars. 109 00:05:05.199 --> 00:05:07.759 To May coming up, they're gonna be in Vancouver coming 110 00:05:07.839 --> 00:05:10.480 up on Saturday, after getting all three points in San Diego. 111 00:05:10.560 --> 00:05:13.439 So little soccer on the program as well. 112 00:05:13.439 --> 00:05:16.000 A lot to do Tuesday Afternoon style of this little 113 00:05:16.000 --> 00:05:19.639 old radio program, We appreciate your ears. We'll start things 114 00:05:19.639 --> 00:05:22.839 off with Kyle Bonnigura, who covers college football and also 115 00:05:22.959 --> 00:05:26.720 soccer for ESPN NBA Daily Assist Style with Tim McMahon 116 00:05:26.720 --> 00:05:29.079 on the show today. Kaylan Jones, our old friend who's 117 00:05:29.079 --> 00:05:30.680 been with Sports Illustrated and The Ringer. 118 00:05:30.720 --> 00:05:33.480 He's now with Netflix. Netflix has a couple of. 119 00:05:33.439 --> 00:05:36.160 Really exciting sports docs coming up, one on Brett Favre 120 00:05:36.759 --> 00:05:39.160 As the trailer was just released today. So we'll bring 121 00:05:39.199 --> 00:05:42.959 in our old buddy, Kayln Jones, and then Sam Bruckhouse, 122 00:05:43.000 --> 00:05:46.000 who covers the NFL for our friends at Zoomer Sports 123 00:05:46.040 --> 00:05:48.800 for some NFL Draft takeaways on the program as well. 124 00:05:48.839 --> 00:05:49.480 So a lot to do. 125 00:05:50.120 --> 00:05:53.120 Kyle Bonneger, Tim McMahon, Kaylan Jones, Sam bruck House, Me 126 00:05:53.240 --> 00:05:55.720 Spence Check. Its all of you, the great listeners, Happy Tuesday, 127 00:05:55.720 --> 00:06:00.839 beautiful day. And that guy Porter Larson producing the I 128 00:06:00.879 --> 00:06:02.560 don't know, man, I'm not sure where you're at with 129 00:06:02.560 --> 00:06:06.279 this Warriors Rocket series. But you know, Golden State's probably 130 00:06:06.279 --> 00:06:08.600 gonna win it. But this has been gripping television. Last 131 00:06:08.680 --> 00:06:09.519 night was a lot of fun. 132 00:06:09.720 --> 00:06:13.959 We talked about it before the weekend. It was probably 133 00:06:14.000 --> 00:06:19.680 the series that, from like a a clashing styles standpoint, 134 00:06:20.040 --> 00:06:22.680 was the one we're most looking forward to, the one 135 00:06:22.680 --> 00:06:26.839 that was a you know, most interesting because you have 136 00:06:27.000 --> 00:06:29.639 this changing of the guard that's happening in the NBA. 137 00:06:29.839 --> 00:06:32.240 It doesn't happen overnight. It never does. It's not how it. 138 00:06:32.240 --> 00:06:34.800 Works, but there is a little bit of a changing 139 00:06:34.879 --> 00:06:37.920 of the guard, and you see it in this series. 140 00:06:38.000 --> 00:06:41.639 It's Steph, it's Jimmy Butler, it's Draymond Green. And yes, 141 00:06:41.759 --> 00:06:44.879 I do think they're gonna win the series. But although 142 00:06:44.879 --> 00:06:48.000 it's three to one, it hasn't been you know, it's 143 00:06:48.040 --> 00:06:50.000 been closer than three to one. All the games have 144 00:06:50.040 --> 00:06:52.680 been competitive, the back and forth have been fun. I 145 00:06:52.759 --> 00:06:55.160 just don't think the Rockets have quite enough experience for 146 00:06:55.199 --> 00:06:57.680 the late game situations in that series. 147 00:06:57.720 --> 00:06:58.959 We saw that last night. 148 00:07:00.079 --> 00:07:03.040 But yeah, man, it's been probably the most entertaining series 149 00:07:03.079 --> 00:07:06.639 to watch from a standpoint both of clashing styles of 150 00:07:06.639 --> 00:07:10.959 basketball and kind of generations clashing as well. 151 00:07:11.000 --> 00:07:12.600 No doubt, no doubt. It's been a lot of fun, 152 00:07:12.680 --> 00:07:15.639 so I say it all the time. Spring basketball reminds 153 00:07:15.680 --> 00:07:17.839 all of us basketball fans what this great game can 154 00:07:17.879 --> 00:07:19.759 look like when the best players in the world actually 155 00:07:19.839 --> 00:07:21.920 care about, you know, doing their job and showing up 156 00:07:21.920 --> 00:07:25.040 and playing ball. So Kyle Bondiguerra, our first guest, right 157 00:07:25.079 --> 00:07:27.360 out of the gates, we'll do some college football squeezing, 158 00:07:27.399 --> 00:07:29.839 a little soccer I time allows with Kyle, but on 159 00:07:29.879 --> 00:07:32.560 a Tuesday afternoon. Before we get to Kyle, courtesy of 160 00:07:32.600 --> 00:07:35.000 our good friends at Prize Picks, it is time now 161 00:07:35.000 --> 00:07:35.839 for your opening tip. 162 00:07:36.600 --> 00:07:39.000 Welcome to the Drive with Spence check its on Utah's 163 00:07:39.079 --> 00:07:42.399 number one sports talk Now into the studios of ESPN 164 00:07:42.519 --> 00:07:45.079 seven hundred to set the scene for the show. The 165 00:07:45.120 --> 00:07:47.160 opening tip of the Drive is brought to you by 166 00:07:47.199 --> 00:07:51.480 Prize Picks. Use the code ESPN seven hundred and run 167 00:07:51.560 --> 00:07:53.720 your game with Prize Picks. 168 00:07:53.680 --> 00:07:56.160 And cash in on the basketball playoffs with Prize Picks. 169 00:07:56.199 --> 00:07:58.480 Don't miss your chance to add your favorite players from 170 00:07:58.519 --> 00:08:02.160 the court to your Prize Picks lineup. 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I'm going 194 00:08:56.600 --> 00:08:59.679 more on Giannis for thirty three point five points, and 195 00:08:59.720 --> 00:09:03.320 I'm going more on Nikola Jokic fifty two point five points, 196 00:09:03.320 --> 00:09:06.080 rebounds and assists combined. Prize picks. Run your game all 197 00:09:06.120 --> 00:09:08.840 season long. All right, A couple quick things regarding the 198 00:09:08.919 --> 00:09:11.159 NBA playoffs. I was thinking about last night, and then 199 00:09:11.159 --> 00:09:14.200 we'll get to some college football. Kyle Bonnagura. You know 200 00:09:14.519 --> 00:09:16.519 I say often and if you listen to the show. 201 00:09:16.519 --> 00:09:18.120 First of all, thank you, hello, how are you? 202 00:09:18.200 --> 00:09:21.600 Second? Of all superstars in the NBA. 203 00:09:22.159 --> 00:09:24.639 They get it done on the road in the postseason, 204 00:09:24.720 --> 00:09:27.159 but they also get it done in the biggest moments 205 00:09:27.600 --> 00:09:29.480 when the big moments present themselves. 206 00:09:29.519 --> 00:09:30.639 Star players are ready. 207 00:09:31.080 --> 00:09:33.559 So to start the game last night Golden State Houston, 208 00:09:34.320 --> 00:09:37.480 Stephan Curry just couldn't get any space because of course, 209 00:09:37.519 --> 00:09:39.519 imy U Doka and the Houston Rockets are gonna do 210 00:09:39.559 --> 00:09:41.480 everything they can to blitz them. They're gonna do everything 211 00:09:41.519 --> 00:09:43.200 they can to get the ball out of his hands, 212 00:09:43.600 --> 00:09:45.240 and they're gonna do everything they can to make him 213 00:09:45.279 --> 00:09:48.000 a facilitator and not a shooter, because there's never been 214 00:09:48.039 --> 00:09:50.480 a shooter in the history of the game. Like stephen 215 00:09:50.639 --> 00:09:54.159 Wardel Curry, Jimmy Butler could not move at all to 216 00:09:54.200 --> 00:09:56.679 start the game, and Draymond Green got in a foul trouble, 217 00:09:56.759 --> 00:09:58.919 then of course picked up the TECH and then a 218 00:09:58.919 --> 00:10:02.840 flagrant won. Honestly, I think that flagrant one should have 219 00:10:02.840 --> 00:10:04.720 been a TECH and Draymond should have been ejected. For 220 00:10:04.759 --> 00:10:08.120 all the conversation that you hear around pro basketball that 221 00:10:08.200 --> 00:10:12.159 Draymond gets picked on, he very much does not. In fact, 222 00:10:12.240 --> 00:10:14.960 more often than not, he does not have the same 223 00:10:15.000 --> 00:10:17.440 sort of treatment from the officials that other players do. 224 00:10:18.000 --> 00:10:19.919 He should have been thrown out last night. Okay, I'm 225 00:10:19.919 --> 00:10:22.399 not a Dylan Brooks fan at all. I'm not sure 226 00:10:22.480 --> 00:10:24.559 if anybody is. He's a tough guy to root for. 227 00:10:24.919 --> 00:10:30.080 But basically, the three superstar players for Golden State did 228 00:10:30.120 --> 00:10:32.720 not get it done to start the game. It wasn't 229 00:10:32.840 --> 00:10:35.200 until the second half and the fourth quarter. For the 230 00:10:35.200 --> 00:10:37.639 most part, Steph got it going there in the second 231 00:10:37.840 --> 00:10:40.720 that those three stepped up and make game winning plays 232 00:10:40.759 --> 00:10:45.080 when the biggest moments manifested. So Steph started hitting shots 233 00:10:45.080 --> 00:10:47.159 there in the fourth quarter. He had that massive corner 234 00:10:47.200 --> 00:10:49.440 three with about two and a half minutes left to 235 00:10:49.559 --> 00:10:53.759 tie the game. Draymond Green had two or three massive 236 00:10:53.799 --> 00:10:56.399 defensive stops against shnng Goon out for in shng Gun, 237 00:10:56.480 --> 00:10:59.080 the really talented Rocket center who went for thirty one. 238 00:10:59.440 --> 00:11:03.480 Sheng Goon when Draymond was the primary defender, went three 239 00:11:03.519 --> 00:11:06.200 of twelve. He was nine of sixteen against everybody else. 240 00:11:06.240 --> 00:11:07.960 And when the Rockets had a chance to take the 241 00:11:08.039 --> 00:11:11.759 lead after Golden State went up one because Dylan Brooks 242 00:11:11.759 --> 00:11:15.399 made a boneheaded foul on Jimmy Butler's corner three, Houston 243 00:11:15.480 --> 00:11:19.000 was anticipating a switch, but Draymond called the switch off 244 00:11:19.039 --> 00:11:22.000 and guarded Shngun one on one and got the stop. 245 00:11:22.480 --> 00:11:24.000 And then Jimmy Butler got one of that. 246 00:11:24.159 --> 00:11:26.360 Like, you're not gonna see a lot of people talking 247 00:11:26.360 --> 00:11:29.399 about big rebounds. You're gonna hear people talking about big shots, 248 00:11:29.440 --> 00:11:30.799 big threes, big stops, whatever. 249 00:11:31.159 --> 00:11:31.799 That was a. 250 00:11:31.799 --> 00:11:35.080 Grown ass man rebound from Jimmy Butler to seal to win. 251 00:11:35.879 --> 00:11:38.399 So all three of the players for Golden State that 252 00:11:38.480 --> 00:11:41.919 are Hall of famers, I mean, certainly Stephen draymondhar My 253 00:11:41.960 --> 00:11:44.759 guess is Jimmy will be as well, made game winning 254 00:11:44.799 --> 00:11:48.039 plays down the stretch. After the young players kind of 255 00:11:48.080 --> 00:11:50.600 lifted them to start the game. Brandon Pajemski was really 256 00:11:50.639 --> 00:11:53.240 good to start the Quinton post Kid came off the 257 00:11:53.240 --> 00:11:55.759 bench and knocked down a couple of threes, And when 258 00:11:55.759 --> 00:11:59.039 I was watching it, I always try to juxtapose my basketball, 259 00:11:59.200 --> 00:12:02.399 you know, my NBA basketball kind of takeaways to what 260 00:12:02.440 --> 00:12:05.559 we're dealing with here with the Utah Jazz and watching 261 00:12:05.919 --> 00:12:08.919 the Golden State Houston game off the heels of watching 262 00:12:08.960 --> 00:12:12.240 the Cavs just absolutely blow the brakes off the Miami 263 00:12:12.279 --> 00:12:17.399 Heat just once again made me think back to the 264 00:12:17.480 --> 00:12:21.440 Quinn Snyder, Rudy Gobert, Donovan Mitchell, Joe Ingles boy on Bogdanovitch, 265 00:12:21.519 --> 00:12:24.960 Mike on the Utah Jazz, and really what a calculated 266 00:12:25.080 --> 00:12:28.799 risk Danny Ainge and Justin Zanik decided to take by 267 00:12:28.879 --> 00:12:31.000 moving on from Mitchell at the age of twenty five, 268 00:12:31.399 --> 00:12:33.720 as he was just entering the prime of his career, 269 00:12:34.600 --> 00:12:36.879 moving on from Rudy who was in his late twenties, 270 00:12:37.159 --> 00:12:39.159 and some of the other pieces. You know, Bogdanovitch was 271 00:12:39.200 --> 00:12:42.559 getting older, Mike was getting older. But what really stings 272 00:12:43.080 --> 00:12:45.799 about the Jazz electing to pull the ripcord on that 273 00:12:45.879 --> 00:12:49.879 group is they were learning step by step about what 274 00:12:50.000 --> 00:12:51.480 you have to do to win in the playoffs. 275 00:12:51.519 --> 00:12:53.200 And that's how this thing has always gone. 276 00:12:53.200 --> 00:12:56.639 Don't forget John Stockton Karmelom did not make the NBA 277 00:12:56.759 --> 00:13:00.960 Finals until their mid thirties. They need did twelve thirteen 278 00:13:01.080 --> 00:13:04.240 years together before they actually were an NBA Finals team. 279 00:13:04.840 --> 00:13:08.399 Can you imagine in like nineteen eighty eight eighty nine, 280 00:13:08.960 --> 00:13:11.360 after the Jazz took the Lakers to seven games in 281 00:13:11.399 --> 00:13:13.960 eighty eight and then got smoked by Golden State the 282 00:13:13.960 --> 00:13:17.600 next year, can you imagine Scott Laden trading John Stockton 283 00:13:17.720 --> 00:13:20.200 and trading Carl Alone because he didn't think they could 284 00:13:20.240 --> 00:13:21.759 get it done, because they didn't get it. 285 00:13:21.720 --> 00:13:23.200 Done in their mid to late twenties. 286 00:13:23.840 --> 00:13:27.240 That would have robbed us of the best basketball that 287 00:13:27.279 --> 00:13:30.759 we've ever seen here. That would have robbed us of 288 00:13:30.799 --> 00:13:33.639 the NBA Finals with Michael Jordan and the Chicago Bulls 289 00:13:33.639 --> 00:13:36.879 in town. It would have robbed us of the best 290 00:13:37.000 --> 00:13:39.759 Jazz basketball era that we all witnessed and we all 291 00:13:39.799 --> 00:13:42.559 saw but that Jazz front office. And look, I know 292 00:13:42.600 --> 00:13:45.159 it's a different time, and I know conversations like this 293 00:13:45.240 --> 00:13:47.279 are complex and nuanced, and we could get into the 294 00:13:47.279 --> 00:13:48.679 whole like was Mitchell gonna leave? 295 00:13:49.320 --> 00:13:50.759 Was he done with the entire thing? 296 00:13:51.600 --> 00:13:54.639 Quinn Snyder saying in his press Conference before he left 297 00:13:54.679 --> 00:13:56.840 our market, he didn't see any way forward. I know 298 00:13:56.919 --> 00:13:59.799 it's a little bit apples and oranges, but watching the 299 00:13:59.799 --> 00:14:03.960 way Donovan has evolved and elevated his game just to 300 00:14:03.960 --> 00:14:07.679 be a more comfortable leader and more comfortable facilitator and 301 00:14:07.720 --> 00:14:11.919 also more engaged defender under Kenny Atkinson, and this Cleveland 302 00:14:11.919 --> 00:14:14.720 Cavaliers group that I don't think will be the Boston Celtics, 303 00:14:14.720 --> 00:14:19.039 But watching the Mitchell maturation and feeling like we were 304 00:14:19.159 --> 00:14:21.919 robbed of having that here will always make me wonder 305 00:14:21.960 --> 00:14:24.600 whether or not that was the right move. And the 306 00:14:24.600 --> 00:14:27.399 dirty little secret and the sad part of the reality 307 00:14:27.440 --> 00:14:30.200 of our current NBA team is they are not a 308 00:14:30.240 --> 00:14:33.720 Cooper flag away from being competitive. They are not two 309 00:14:33.759 --> 00:14:36.679 or three pieces away from being competitive. They are probably 310 00:14:36.720 --> 00:14:39.879 four or five roster pieces and roster upgrades away from 311 00:14:39.919 --> 00:14:41.759 even being a playoff team. 312 00:14:42.200 --> 00:14:43.480 Like if you're. 313 00:14:43.440 --> 00:14:45.799 Juiced on being a playing team nine or ten seed, 314 00:14:45.840 --> 00:14:47.960 all right, that's fine. But if you look around the 315 00:14:48.039 --> 00:14:51.480 landscape of the Western Conference, this calculator risk the Jazz 316 00:14:51.519 --> 00:14:55.039 took four years ago has not paid near the dividends 317 00:14:55.039 --> 00:14:57.519 that anybody thought that it would pay. Some of the 318 00:14:57.600 --> 00:15:00.279 draft capital from the Goberian Mitchell trades have I'm in, 319 00:15:00.799 --> 00:15:03.639 but the draft selections that I've been made have not popped. 320 00:15:03.840 --> 00:15:06.679 They have not proven to be players that we can 321 00:15:06.720 --> 00:15:10.679 rely upon to help this franchise grow back to respectability 322 00:15:10.720 --> 00:15:15.120 and competition. And watching NBA playoff basketball this year, unfortunately, 323 00:15:15.120 --> 00:15:18.519 has reiterated my belief that the Jazz are a marathon 324 00:15:18.559 --> 00:15:23.080 away from even being decent. Utah Men's basketball picked up 325 00:15:23.120 --> 00:15:25.159 a transfer portal edition yesterday. 326 00:15:25.240 --> 00:15:26.679 We'll tell you about this new player. 327 00:15:26.759 --> 00:15:30.600 I think there are five roster spots left for Alex 328 00:15:30.679 --> 00:15:33.399 Jensen and his staff to fill out. Of course, plenty 329 00:15:33.440 --> 00:15:36.480 of time before the season gets rolling. But our first 330 00:15:36.480 --> 00:15:40.200 guest on this Tuesday afternoon covers college football for ESPN. 331 00:15:40.279 --> 00:15:42.600 It's been a number of months, but please. 332 00:15:42.440 --> 00:15:45.679 To welcome Kyle Bonnaguera back on the show on a Tuesday. 333 00:15:45.759 --> 00:15:49.360 Kyle, Happy Tuesday, man. How you doing. I'm good. I'm good. 334 00:15:49.399 --> 00:15:51.679 I was looking at your I don't know, Twitter or 335 00:15:51.799 --> 00:15:54.720 x whatever calling it. You have not been very active 336 00:15:54.759 --> 00:15:58.080 on the socials as of late. What's been keeping your attention. 337 00:16:00.039 --> 00:16:02.559 Everything else that matters? I guess I just kind of 338 00:16:02.559 --> 00:16:04.759 found that the more time I spent on social media 339 00:16:04.799 --> 00:16:07.320 the less I was getting out of all of it, 340 00:16:07.720 --> 00:16:09.759 and I think, you know, if I put more effort 341 00:16:09.759 --> 00:16:13.000 into the stores, I'm ready and care more about those 342 00:16:13.039 --> 00:16:16.639 sort of things as opposed to kind of caning followers 343 00:16:16.679 --> 00:16:19.840 on social media, Like I'm probably better off long term, 344 00:16:19.919 --> 00:16:22.480 just like how I feel about the job and just 345 00:16:22.559 --> 00:16:24.200 kind of day to day. So yeah, I kind of 346 00:16:24.240 --> 00:16:26.240 just stop seeing the value for the for the role 347 00:16:26.279 --> 00:16:28.200 that I do for the newsbreakers and people like that. 348 00:16:28.279 --> 00:16:30.399 I think there's still value for that, but when you're 349 00:16:30.480 --> 00:16:34.120 kind of doing feature stories and taking on on specific subjects, 350 00:16:34.279 --> 00:16:36.080 I just don't think it really adds much anymore. 351 00:16:36.240 --> 00:16:37.519 Everything else that matters. 352 00:16:37.600 --> 00:16:40.559 Was such a great Kyle Bonneger answer that was right 353 00:16:40.600 --> 00:16:43.759 on brand, a perfect answer, buddy, all right, I wanted 354 00:16:43.759 --> 00:16:47.039 to start today because you're familiar with Dion Sanders and 355 00:16:47.039 --> 00:16:50.320 should Or Sanders and Colorado and have covered that program. 356 00:16:50.360 --> 00:16:52.559 And of course I'm not sure if you heard, Kyle 357 00:16:52.559 --> 00:16:53.120 because you're not. 358 00:16:53.080 --> 00:16:55.240 On social but should Or slid a little bit in 359 00:16:55.279 --> 00:16:57.480 that NFL draft all the way down to the fifth round, 360 00:16:58.000 --> 00:17:03.080 and it's always interesting juxtapos seeing NFL Italian talent evaluators 361 00:17:03.120 --> 00:17:06.200 to what the media believes is going to happen. And 362 00:17:06.279 --> 00:17:09.039 maybe this is just as simple as NFL people don't 363 00:17:09.039 --> 00:17:11.880 believe that Shador is worth spending a high pick on, 364 00:17:11.960 --> 00:17:14.160 and maybe it's more nuanced and complex than that. I 365 00:17:14.240 --> 00:17:17.480 just wonder what your takeaways are from watching shod Or 366 00:17:17.519 --> 00:17:18.880 slip all the way to the fifth round. 367 00:17:19.799 --> 00:17:21.759 Yeah, no, I paid. I paid pretty close attention to this. 368 00:17:21.759 --> 00:17:23.440 I wrote a little bit about some the so it 369 00:17:23.559 --> 00:17:25.960 was part of our kind of draft coveraging leading up 370 00:17:26.000 --> 00:17:28.640 to and so I was really curious to see where 371 00:17:28.680 --> 00:17:30.759 he went, where Hunter went, kind of where all the 372 00:17:30.799 --> 00:17:32.680 players that I kind of paid a close attention to 373 00:17:32.960 --> 00:17:36.279 during their college careers landed landed in the draft. 374 00:17:36.319 --> 00:17:36.440 Right. 375 00:17:36.440 --> 00:17:39.720 It's kind of graduation day in that sense, And so 376 00:17:39.839 --> 00:17:41.759 I think there's a lot to it, right. It's a 377 00:17:41.880 --> 00:17:45.079 it's a very complex issue when we're talking about Shador 378 00:17:45.079 --> 00:17:47.720 and why he fell or or why he didn't fall, 379 00:17:47.839 --> 00:17:50.039 why everyone just had him wrong and he didn't fall. 380 00:17:50.160 --> 00:17:52.000 He just ended up where he was supposed to be. 381 00:17:52.599 --> 00:17:55.000 But I think like the prevailing thought that I tend 382 00:17:55.000 --> 00:17:58.960 to agree with is, look, if he was worth all 383 00:17:59.000 --> 00:18:00.880 the other stuff that comes along with him, if his 384 00:18:01.039 --> 00:18:03.279 talent was that good, if he was really at top 385 00:18:03.359 --> 00:18:07.519 five talent. He would have gone there, right. NFL teams 386 00:18:07.519 --> 00:18:10.839 would have decided that if he adds wins, right, if 387 00:18:10.920 --> 00:18:14.880 he gets you the those results, the things that matter, 388 00:18:14.960 --> 00:18:17.480 then you can kind of put up with the kind 389 00:18:17.480 --> 00:18:20.720 of the circus that kind of comes with everything Sanders 390 00:18:20.759 --> 00:18:26.759 these days. But after the evaluations were complete, they determined 391 00:18:26.799 --> 00:18:28.599 and this is kind of where I fell too, is 392 00:18:28.640 --> 00:18:31.519 that he really wasn't that great. I mean, there was 393 00:18:31.559 --> 00:18:33.799 a lot of things he did really well. Sitting in 394 00:18:33.839 --> 00:18:36.559 the pocket, there was a beautiful ball, took a lot 395 00:18:36.599 --> 00:18:38.640 of sacks. I thought there was a lot of stat 396 00:18:38.680 --> 00:18:41.119 padding going on. The story that I've kind of told 397 00:18:41.160 --> 00:18:45.160 friends over the last few days kind of illustrates kind 398 00:18:45.160 --> 00:18:47.240 of why I didn't really view Schedure as kind of 399 00:18:47.240 --> 00:18:49.119 a winning player earlier in the year. It was the 400 00:18:49.119 --> 00:18:50.440 first game of the year. Actually, I was there in 401 00:18:50.440 --> 00:18:53.319 Colorado to play in North Dakota State. It's a one 402 00:18:53.359 --> 00:18:58.359 possession game a minute in a minute in like forty 403 00:18:58.400 --> 00:19:00.960 five seconds ago, somewhere somewhere in that range. So you 404 00:19:01.000 --> 00:19:03.319 had a chance to just North Dakota State had one 405 00:19:03.319 --> 00:19:05.200 time out left, so you had a chance to run 406 00:19:05.200 --> 00:19:07.880 the ball three times. It would have taken you down 407 00:19:07.880 --> 00:19:10.119 to about ten seconds and you could punt it away 408 00:19:10.160 --> 00:19:13.839 the game's over. Instead, on first down he checks to 409 00:19:13.960 --> 00:19:17.720 a he checks to a downfield pass, which was just 410 00:19:17.920 --> 00:19:22.640 a completely bizarre decision in that game State. And then 411 00:19:23.160 --> 00:19:25.680 on second down they passed again incomplete. So they basically 412 00:19:25.680 --> 00:19:29.400 gifted North Dakota State a timeout and a chance in 413 00:19:29.440 --> 00:19:30.839 the time of the game where they could have just 414 00:19:30.880 --> 00:19:33.599 completely ended it. North Dakota State ends up getting the 415 00:19:33.640 --> 00:19:35.480 ball back. They marched down the field, they come up 416 00:19:35.480 --> 00:19:39.920 a couple of yards short of a thirty, like a 417 00:19:39.960 --> 00:19:42.319 really lengthy drive with thirty seconds left, and end up 418 00:19:42.319 --> 00:19:45.720 costing the game. And so I just felt like that moment, 419 00:19:45.720 --> 00:19:47.680 for me, kind of illustrated that he was more about 420 00:19:47.680 --> 00:19:50.960 his stats and all the other stuff than winning. And 421 00:19:51.279 --> 00:19:53.240 that's just one example, and maybe it's a little harsh 422 00:19:53.319 --> 00:19:55.039 to point that out, but I think there's like a 423 00:19:55.039 --> 00:19:58.160 lot of examples, like the shows that this kid wasn't 424 00:19:58.200 --> 00:20:02.160 really focused on the thing the NFL teams wanted him 425 00:20:02.200 --> 00:20:04.640 to be. And so when you're now a sudden, you're 426 00:20:04.640 --> 00:20:07.440 not drafting a starting quarterback, You're drafting some guy and 427 00:20:07.480 --> 00:20:11.440 compete to be the backup. Now you have someone who's 428 00:20:11.880 --> 00:20:14.559 you know, whose dad is, is a a list celebrity. 429 00:20:14.920 --> 00:20:18.160 He generates headlines like few people do in sports and 430 00:20:18.200 --> 00:20:20.680 pop culture. He's going to be calling for him to start. 431 00:20:20.759 --> 00:20:23.599 That's inevitable, right, We'll see that soon enough with the Browns. 432 00:20:23.920 --> 00:20:25.640 And if you're the head coach, if you're the GM, 433 00:20:25.920 --> 00:20:28.119 do you want to deal with that for a backup quarterback? 434 00:20:28.480 --> 00:20:30.519 You know, probably not, So you know, we can talk 435 00:20:30.559 --> 00:20:33.000 about this for days, But that's kind of the kind 436 00:20:33.039 --> 00:20:35.519 of where I where I started my thought process and 437 00:20:35.559 --> 00:20:36.279 valuating everything. 438 00:20:36.400 --> 00:20:37.160 Sure, do you. 439 00:20:37.119 --> 00:20:40.000 Think his dad did him a bit of a disservice 440 00:20:40.039 --> 00:20:42.480 because you hear all these things where it's like, well, 441 00:20:42.559 --> 00:20:45.000 Dion used to sandbag interviews too, and it's like, well, 442 00:20:45.039 --> 00:20:47.519 he was the best cornerback in the history of football. Like, 443 00:20:48.039 --> 00:20:50.720 even if two or three teams were turned off about Dion, 444 00:20:50.920 --> 00:20:52.720 somebody was going to take him and somebody was going 445 00:20:52.799 --> 00:20:55.160 to sign him because he was just that good and 446 00:20:55.240 --> 00:20:57.480 to your point and how you articulate, it was really 447 00:20:57.480 --> 00:21:00.240 really good. Like with all of the questions that just 448 00:21:00.279 --> 00:21:04.079 simply surrounded Shador as a prospect, if you remove all 449 00:21:04.119 --> 00:21:07.759 the intangibles and everything on the outside looking in, just 450 00:21:07.799 --> 00:21:10.920 as a football player. It appears to be pretty clear 451 00:21:10.960 --> 00:21:15.039 that out the talent evaluators didn't necessarily see him as 452 00:21:15.079 --> 00:21:18.400 somebody that they were comfortable taking a high pick. And 453 00:21:18.480 --> 00:21:20.359 I don't know, I don't want to say wasting on him, 454 00:21:20.359 --> 00:21:23.680 but as far as like maybe the example he followed 455 00:21:23.720 --> 00:21:28.079 from his father and Dion himself being front facing about 456 00:21:28.119 --> 00:21:30.519 he is a top five pick and even at one 457 00:21:30.519 --> 00:21:34.640 point alluding to maybe getting involved in harkening the whole 458 00:21:34.960 --> 00:21:37.599 you know, Eli Manning situation. Do you think maybe his 459 00:21:37.720 --> 00:21:40.920 pops did him a bit of a disservice during this process. 460 00:21:41.480 --> 00:21:45.319 Yeah, completely, I think that's I think that's pretty clear that. Look, 461 00:21:45.359 --> 00:21:47.400 there's a lot of benefits to having Deon Sanders as 462 00:21:47.440 --> 00:21:48.880 your dad, Right, There's a lot of ways that he's 463 00:21:48.920 --> 00:21:51.640 been very helpful kind of shepherded him along his career. 464 00:21:52.039 --> 00:21:54.200 But in this case, not only has he Deon Sanders 465 00:21:54.200 --> 00:21:56.759 and been very vocal about all those things. I mean, 466 00:21:56.799 --> 00:21:58.960 it was just a few months ago where you know, 467 00:21:59.079 --> 00:22:01.400 there was speculation that Dion Sanders was going to be 468 00:22:01.440 --> 00:22:04.640 a candidate to be an NFL coach. Right, so I 469 00:22:04.640 --> 00:22:06.599 imagine you're the head coach, you have shoud a on 470 00:22:06.680 --> 00:22:09.279 the bench, you're losing. He probably doesn't deserve to be 471 00:22:09.319 --> 00:22:10.839 in the game. But now you're hearing all this outside. No, 472 00:22:11.039 --> 00:22:14.279 now you're probably hearing, you know, should Deon Sanders be 473 00:22:14.359 --> 00:22:16.799 the coach? Right? And that's an element that didn't exist 474 00:22:16.920 --> 00:22:19.400 with Eli. That kind of adds to this in a 475 00:22:19.440 --> 00:22:22.640 way that I mean, you saw that could be probably 476 00:22:22.680 --> 00:22:24.640 saw that the clips of the draft room for the Browns, 477 00:22:24.640 --> 00:22:27.440 and they didn't look thrilled to be, you know, having 478 00:22:27.559 --> 00:22:30.440 picked Sugar Sanders. And it's certainly possible that was taken 479 00:22:30.480 --> 00:22:34.559 out of context, but it's also possible that they were 480 00:22:34.599 --> 00:22:38.759 not thrilled knowing that every single day with that guy 481 00:22:38.799 --> 00:22:40.279 in the building is going to be examined in a 482 00:22:40.319 --> 00:22:44.119 way that it wouldn't have been had he been somewhere else. 483 00:22:44.160 --> 00:22:48.000 And so you you certainly benefit for being Dion's son, 484 00:22:48.079 --> 00:22:50.319 but there's a lot of a lot of other stuff 485 00:22:50.319 --> 00:22:51.960 that comes with that, and I think in this case, 486 00:22:52.000 --> 00:22:53.200 it costs him a lot of money. 487 00:22:53.400 --> 00:22:56.519 So his teammate Travis Hunter goes too. 488 00:22:57.279 --> 00:23:00.799 And another player that you watched, another player that you covered, 489 00:23:01.599 --> 00:23:03.000 I wonder what you what do. 490 00:23:03.000 --> 00:23:05.440 You anticipate Jacksonville doing with him? 491 00:23:05.839 --> 00:23:07.839 I mean, a lot of conversation about whether or not 492 00:23:08.119 --> 00:23:10.519 whoever drafted him was going to want him only on 493 00:23:10.640 --> 00:23:12.920 offense or allow him to play on both sides of 494 00:23:12.920 --> 00:23:15.720 the ball, which he did at the highest of levels 495 00:23:16.240 --> 00:23:19.200 in college. And he was one of those players, Kyle. 496 00:23:19.279 --> 00:23:21.480 Every time I watched it's like, yes, he is one 497 00:23:21.519 --> 00:23:23.759 of one. He is a unicorn. He is as unique 498 00:23:23.759 --> 00:23:26.240 as any prospect I think that I've seen in a 499 00:23:26.279 --> 00:23:28.119 long time. Do you do you think we'll see a 500 00:23:28.160 --> 00:23:31.599 two way situation for Travis Hunter and Jacksonville. Every time 501 00:23:31.680 --> 00:23:35.359 Travis is asked about it, he's very clear, salient in 502 00:23:35.400 --> 00:23:37.319 front face, and like, yes, I want to play on 503 00:23:37.359 --> 00:23:38.079 both sides. 504 00:23:37.880 --> 00:23:38.240 Of the ball. 505 00:23:39.440 --> 00:23:41.319 Yeah. I just wanted to watch a video today kind 506 00:23:41.319 --> 00:23:44.200 of showing his arrival in jacksonvilleson the behind the scenes 507 00:23:44.200 --> 00:23:45.720 stuff there, and he was talking about how he wants 508 00:23:45.759 --> 00:23:47.839 to get the playbook and then he corrected himself and 509 00:23:47.839 --> 00:23:50.480 he's like, actually the playbooks plural because he needed offense. 510 00:23:50.519 --> 00:23:53.480 And so I think, you know, all the signs indicate that, 511 00:23:53.680 --> 00:23:56.720 you know, certainly to start off, they'll work him on 512 00:23:56.759 --> 00:23:59.759 both sides of the ball, and you know, use that 513 00:23:59.839 --> 00:24:02.359 information to kind of inform what the decision is during 514 00:24:02.359 --> 00:24:03.960 the season. I think it makes sense to let him 515 00:24:03.960 --> 00:24:07.119 try both. I don't know if in the NFL he 516 00:24:07.160 --> 00:24:11.039 can you know, go go uh go full time both ways. 517 00:24:11.079 --> 00:24:13.759 And he didn't start playing both ways full time in 518 00:24:13.759 --> 00:24:16.480 college either. He kind of worked himself into that as 519 00:24:16.519 --> 00:24:18.559 he became more experienced and more comfortable at the college 520 00:24:18.680 --> 00:24:20.640 level too. And that's even starting you know, down down 521 00:24:20.680 --> 00:24:25.920 at FCS. With with with Jackson State. I've discussed this 522 00:24:26.000 --> 00:24:28.440 a lot with you know, friends and colleges and you know, 523 00:24:28.759 --> 00:24:30.200 you know, other people in the media, just like where 524 00:24:30.240 --> 00:24:32.599 is he better? And I think the fact that there 525 00:24:32.720 --> 00:24:35.599 isn't really a consensus, that you have people arguing on 526 00:24:35.640 --> 00:24:38.440 both sides, is really probably the most interesting takeaway that 527 00:24:38.480 --> 00:24:41.559 it's not clear he was. He started as a corner 528 00:24:41.559 --> 00:24:43.839 that was what he got recruited as. But you know, 529 00:24:43.920 --> 00:24:46.000 last year he won the Bolitannicop Award as the best receiver, 530 00:24:46.079 --> 00:24:48.039 and part of that is just named recognition, and there 531 00:24:48.079 --> 00:24:50.240 wasn't the other candidates were you know, Nick Nash from 532 00:24:50.279 --> 00:24:52.759 stand State. He's not going to generate a lot of 533 00:24:52.799 --> 00:24:56.039 hype nationwide, so maybe he benefited just from from that 534 00:24:56.240 --> 00:24:58.079 to a degree, But still he had over one hundred 535 00:24:58.119 --> 00:25:01.680 catches something like that for well over thousand yards. Was was 536 00:25:01.680 --> 00:25:05.599 unguardable at times, it seemed. In the Big twelve so's 537 00:25:05.960 --> 00:25:09.799 he's probably the most interesting prospect of his generation because 538 00:25:09.799 --> 00:25:12.079 he is you said it, he's one of one. No 539 00:25:12.119 --> 00:25:15.880 one else's has been valued in the same way. I mean, 540 00:25:15.920 --> 00:25:18.400 you probably have to go back to Dion right to 541 00:25:18.440 --> 00:25:21.640 see another guy who got legit run on both sides 542 00:25:21.680 --> 00:25:23.559 of the ball, and even that was like packages and 543 00:25:23.559 --> 00:25:25.720 ways to kind of use him as either a decoy 544 00:25:25.839 --> 00:25:27.720 or to get in the ball like early on, you know, 545 00:25:27.759 --> 00:25:31.440 early in to play so Jack Nville's early a team 546 00:25:31.440 --> 00:25:33.680 that can use the help on both sides, and it's 547 00:25:33.680 --> 00:25:35.359 almost like you got to use two picks with one, 548 00:25:35.759 --> 00:25:35.920 you know. 549 00:25:36.000 --> 00:25:38.920 The past couple of years, it's been an interesting kind 550 00:25:38.920 --> 00:25:42.640 of situation to antalyze like former Pac twelve quarterbacks who 551 00:25:42.640 --> 00:25:45.119 have gone on to do great things. And look, when 552 00:25:45.200 --> 00:25:48.599 Jayden Daniels was at ASU. 553 00:25:47.640 --> 00:25:49.640 I thought he was fun, I thought he was good. 554 00:25:49.680 --> 00:25:51.880 I thought and he was almost a ute actually, which 555 00:25:51.920 --> 00:25:54.200 is kind of an interesting subplot. But then he goes 556 00:25:54.200 --> 00:25:56.720 and wins the Heisman, and he goes and just takes 557 00:25:56.759 --> 00:25:59.920 the world of pro football by Storm as a rookie, 558 00:26:00.000 --> 00:26:01.799 and I don't know that I thought he was going 559 00:26:01.799 --> 00:26:03.799 to be that when he was out in our footprint. 560 00:26:04.119 --> 00:26:06.240 And I'll ask you the same thing about cam Ward, 561 00:26:06.279 --> 00:26:08.319 who certainly was out of school, you know, well in 562 00:26:08.400 --> 00:26:12.559 Wazoo and put up great numbers, but kind of same thing. 563 00:26:12.599 --> 00:26:14.000 I don't know that I ever thought he'd be the 564 00:26:14.079 --> 00:26:16.359 number one pick in the draft. He transfers to Miami, 565 00:26:16.839 --> 00:26:19.680 of course, has a great year, and he goes one 566 00:26:20.640 --> 00:26:22.759 in the draft, and it appeared to be a consensus. 567 00:26:22.759 --> 00:26:24.079 Did that surprise you at all? 568 00:26:24.119 --> 00:26:26.400 What was kind of some of your takeaways watching this 569 00:26:26.480 --> 00:26:27.400 journey for cam Ward? 570 00:26:28.640 --> 00:26:30.119 So I think by the end, I think it was 571 00:26:30.160 --> 00:26:31.759 pretty clear that that was going to happen. So I 572 00:26:31.799 --> 00:26:36.319 wasn't like when I guess the better way to phrase it. 573 00:26:36.480 --> 00:26:38.880 My answer is that if you would have asked me, 574 00:26:39.079 --> 00:26:40.960 you know, two years ago, if I thought cam Ward 575 00:26:41.000 --> 00:26:42.480 would be the number one pick in the draft, you know, 576 00:26:42.480 --> 00:26:45.119 they would have been a resounding no. Absolutely not. I 577 00:26:45.160 --> 00:26:46.920 thought he was the guy who had progressed to the 578 00:26:47.000 --> 00:26:49.200 NFL and have a chance to be a pro maybe 579 00:26:49.200 --> 00:26:52.599 even for a long time. But I think the step 580 00:26:52.680 --> 00:26:56.079 foward he took at Miami this year was really impressive, right, 581 00:26:56.079 --> 00:26:58.759 I mean, they had arguably the best offense in college football, 582 00:26:58.920 --> 00:27:02.119 and a lot of that was because of him. He 583 00:27:02.680 --> 00:27:05.319 was he had a lot of really special moments. He 584 00:27:05.359 --> 00:27:08.839 sits in the pocket, well, he's athletic enough to extend plays. 585 00:27:09.119 --> 00:27:11.279 I thought his decision making got a lot better as 586 00:27:11.319 --> 00:27:14.279 he progressed through college football. And I think a lot 587 00:27:14.279 --> 00:27:16.240 of people in it's you know, maybe more people are 588 00:27:16.240 --> 00:27:18.440 familiar with his story now. But keep in mind too 589 00:27:18.480 --> 00:27:20.640 that he ran the wing tea in high school, so like, 590 00:27:20.640 --> 00:27:23.279 this isn't one of those guys who was bred by 591 00:27:23.319 --> 00:27:26.519 some quarterback guru in the seventh grade, eighth grade, ninth grade, 592 00:27:26.559 --> 00:27:28.960 and and it was essentially a finished product before he 593 00:27:28.960 --> 00:27:31.279 had a chance to really start going. He's someone who 594 00:27:31.319 --> 00:27:33.079 had a lot of groaning to do when he got 595 00:27:33.119 --> 00:27:35.319 to college because it was his first time in a 596 00:27:35.359 --> 00:27:37.599 passing offense, and so he had a chance to do 597 00:27:37.680 --> 00:27:40.279 that down at the FCS level with an Eddingcarrentet Word 598 00:27:41.119 --> 00:27:43.400 advanced his career at WCu and kind of had that 599 00:27:43.440 --> 00:27:46.960 graduate level of education at Miami and really did a 600 00:27:47.000 --> 00:27:49.799 good job developing I think, and going back to Shaduur right, 601 00:27:49.839 --> 00:27:52.039 I think Kim Ward really looked good in some of 602 00:27:52.039 --> 00:27:54.920 those workout videos that got published between the two and more, 603 00:27:54.960 --> 00:27:56.559 he said, I want to be known as a football player. 604 00:27:56.599 --> 00:27:59.160 Should We was talking about, you know, let's let's you know, 605 00:27:59.240 --> 00:28:01.000 let's cut a song together or something like that, and 606 00:28:01.880 --> 00:28:04.519 Cam was very focused on football and football only. So 607 00:28:04.559 --> 00:28:07.960 I think all of those, you know, the two progressions there, 608 00:28:08.279 --> 00:28:10.599 I think it says a lot about both of those players. 609 00:28:11.119 --> 00:28:12.640 Kyle. I want you to know that I'm a grown 610 00:28:12.720 --> 00:28:13.880 up who can do hard things. 611 00:28:13.880 --> 00:28:16.079 So even though you don't tweet out your pieces anymore, 612 00:28:16.079 --> 00:28:17.720 I was able to find a couple of them. So 613 00:28:17.759 --> 00:28:19.920 I want to ask you about the piece you wrote 614 00:28:19.920 --> 00:28:23.759 about Abdul Carter, who a lot of people believe, you know, 615 00:28:23.799 --> 00:28:26.440 when we're talking about the twenty twenty five NFL Draft 616 00:28:26.440 --> 00:28:28.319 in ten years, this is the dude we're going to 617 00:28:28.359 --> 00:28:31.920 be talking about take us through this journey, positional change 618 00:28:31.960 --> 00:28:34.799 and what do you think what type of difference can 619 00:28:34.799 --> 00:28:36.200 he make for the New York Giants. 620 00:28:37.839 --> 00:28:40.799 Yeah, so he's a really he's a fascinating guy. He's 621 00:28:40.839 --> 00:28:42.519 like I had a chance to speak with him quite 622 00:28:42.559 --> 00:28:44.599 a bit down in Arizona head at the quarterfinal game 623 00:28:44.599 --> 00:28:46.000 against BYU. That's why I did a lot of the 624 00:28:46.039 --> 00:28:49.519 interviews for that story. And really quiet guy, a really 625 00:28:49.559 --> 00:28:52.839 cerebral guy, and I don't think he necessarily think that 626 00:28:52.920 --> 00:28:55.079 When you think about you know, big time pass rusher 627 00:28:55.119 --> 00:28:56.880 at a big school, right, you kind of think, oh, 628 00:28:56.880 --> 00:28:59.400 this guy is probably confident in brash and all those things. 629 00:28:59.400 --> 00:29:03.200 But he is not that. He is an introvert. You know, 630 00:29:03.240 --> 00:29:04.880 he talked to me a little bit about, you know, 631 00:29:04.880 --> 00:29:08.200 playing chess and the analytical side of football and those 632 00:29:08.200 --> 00:29:11.160 sort of things, but had a really good feel for 633 00:29:11.200 --> 00:29:13.160 who he was and how he could impact the game. 634 00:29:13.319 --> 00:29:16.119 So the story goes, you know, he started at he 635 00:29:16.160 --> 00:29:19.039 came in as a linebacker. You know, he asked for 636 00:29:19.079 --> 00:29:20.920 the number eleven jersey, which is you know, we saw 637 00:29:21.000 --> 00:29:23.000 him try to do that again this week for Lawrence 638 00:29:23.000 --> 00:29:24.960 Taylor's retired fifty six. So we asked for the eleven 639 00:29:25.039 --> 00:29:27.160 jersey at Penn State, which is a big deal there. 640 00:29:27.160 --> 00:29:30.640 There's a lot of significance, a lot of you know, 641 00:29:30.640 --> 00:29:34.039 all time great players have worn it there. He goes 642 00:29:34.079 --> 00:29:37.279 through summer workouts as a freshman. They're impressed by him 643 00:29:37.319 --> 00:29:39.960 so much that they go ahead and grant him that request, 644 00:29:39.960 --> 00:29:42.160 he gets the eleven, and then from day one he 645 00:29:42.240 --> 00:29:45.960 is he is wrecking havoc as a linebacker. But two 646 00:29:46.039 --> 00:29:47.720 years in, he gets to that off season after his 647 00:29:47.720 --> 00:29:49.319 sophomore year and he's like, look, I think that can 648 00:29:49.400 --> 00:29:52.240 be I was a little bit out of place. You know, 649 00:29:52.279 --> 00:29:54.039 he was playing week side linebacker. He does a lot 650 00:29:54.039 --> 00:29:56.039 of you know, hand in the dirt rush and edge 651 00:29:56.079 --> 00:29:59.000 type stuff, but really thought he should be as a 652 00:29:59.000 --> 00:30:01.640 defensive you know, playing and consistently as a defensive end, 653 00:30:01.640 --> 00:30:03.839 not dropping into coverage in those sort of things, even 654 00:30:03.880 --> 00:30:07.880 though he was physically capable of doing so. Anyone who 655 00:30:07.880 --> 00:30:10.440 watched Penn State, it probably didn't take a lot of time. 656 00:30:10.480 --> 00:30:11.960 So if you're watching for the first time, you're like, oh, 657 00:30:12.000 --> 00:30:12.559 who's eleven? 658 00:30:12.640 --> 00:30:12.759 Right? 659 00:30:12.759 --> 00:30:15.400 He just every snap it feels like he was. He 660 00:30:15.480 --> 00:30:18.000 was getting to the backfield, disrupting plays. You know, his 661 00:30:18.519 --> 00:30:21.440 numbers were good, you weren't generational or anything like that. 662 00:30:21.799 --> 00:30:23.480 But he affected the game in a way that few 663 00:30:23.640 --> 00:30:26.839 players did. And I think that NFL teams had noticed 664 00:30:26.839 --> 00:30:28.920 that well before he made the position change, and once 665 00:30:28.960 --> 00:30:32.079 he added some weight, kind of got his body to 666 00:30:32.119 --> 00:30:33.920 a place where he can be a defensive end at 667 00:30:33.920 --> 00:30:37.559 the next level. You know, it was pretty clear that 668 00:30:37.599 --> 00:30:40.039 he was going to be an early pick in a 669 00:30:40.200 --> 00:30:41.759 very early last year, and so I had a good 670 00:30:41.759 --> 00:30:44.440 time talking with him. His teammates were all very complimentary 671 00:30:44.440 --> 00:30:47.039 of him. Coaches raved about him, you know, everyone I 672 00:30:47.119 --> 00:30:52.640 talked to about him. You and look, this isn't so unusual, 673 00:30:52.720 --> 00:30:56.279 but it was all very believable, and it felt genuine 674 00:30:56.279 --> 00:30:58.559 that they really believed in this guy's talent and who 675 00:30:58.559 --> 00:30:59.440 he was as a person. 676 00:31:00.559 --> 00:31:03.319 All right, moving over to a little Utah football and look, 677 00:31:03.359 --> 00:31:05.359 it is April, so I'm not going to ask you 678 00:31:05.400 --> 00:31:08.119 to break down there too deep for August in September, 679 00:31:08.880 --> 00:31:13.079 but I just kind of wondering what your confidence level is. 680 00:31:13.440 --> 00:31:14.720 Coach wit is back. 681 00:31:14.880 --> 00:31:18.119 I didn't necessarily cover the will Kyle stay or leave 682 00:31:18.240 --> 00:31:20.519 story as deep as everybody else. He simply is a 683 00:31:20.559 --> 00:31:23.559 coach under contract, and my thought was he did not 684 00:31:23.720 --> 00:31:25.000 want to go out like that. 685 00:31:25.799 --> 00:31:28.440 The spring game was last week Forever twenty two game. 686 00:31:28.480 --> 00:31:29.039 I was up there. 687 00:31:29.079 --> 00:31:30.799 I was able to catch up with Kyle and Morgan 688 00:31:30.880 --> 00:31:33.400 Scalley and met Jason Beck for the first time. There's 689 00:31:33.440 --> 00:31:36.319 a new quarterback in town, and Devin dan Pierre. There's 690 00:31:36.359 --> 00:31:38.720 a grip of new players, because of course there is 691 00:31:38.759 --> 00:31:40.960 that's not a Utah thing, that's a college football thing. 692 00:31:41.440 --> 00:31:43.599 But after a failing and to even qualify for a 693 00:31:43.640 --> 00:31:46.920 bowl game and winning five games last year, I do 694 00:31:47.039 --> 00:31:50.400 feel like maybe the pressure is off. You know, last year, everybody, 695 00:31:50.440 --> 00:31:53.359 including me and I believe you picked Utah to win 696 00:31:53.400 --> 00:31:56.680 the Big Twelve and advance to the expanded twelve team CFP. 697 00:31:57.480 --> 00:31:59.079 And you know, there are a lot of outlets that 698 00:31:59.119 --> 00:32:01.000 have already done the whole like way too early Big 699 00:32:01.039 --> 00:32:04.400 twelve projection thing, and Utah's mid table on most of them. 700 00:32:04.799 --> 00:32:07.359 So maybe taking that pressure off or will help. 701 00:32:07.400 --> 00:32:09.240 But do you have some confidence that you're two in 702 00:32:09.240 --> 00:32:10.960 the Big twelve will at least look better than your 703 00:32:11.000 --> 00:32:11.680 one for the utes? 704 00:32:13.400 --> 00:32:13.599 Yeah? 705 00:32:13.599 --> 00:32:15.400 I mean there's a there's a very like fundamental way 706 00:32:15.400 --> 00:32:16.880 to answer that. It's like, it can't be much worse. 707 00:32:16.920 --> 00:32:20.000 You go two and seven, you're probably gonna do better 708 00:32:20.039 --> 00:32:22.799 in the conference, right, because it's that the record was 709 00:32:22.799 --> 00:32:25.839 that it was. But yeah, but that said, like, I 710 00:32:26.039 --> 00:32:29.880 just have never lost faith in Kyle Whittingham as they've 711 00:32:29.960 --> 00:32:31.960 kind of had these two weird years. Right, there's a 712 00:32:31.960 --> 00:32:35.680 lot of factors outside of his control. That you know, 713 00:32:35.799 --> 00:32:37.960 contribute to that. You're you and your you know, your 714 00:32:37.960 --> 00:32:39.839 listeners know that you know probably even better than I do. 715 00:32:40.920 --> 00:32:45.119 And so I think with like, with those circumstances, it 716 00:32:45.160 --> 00:32:47.720 wasn't that the program was falling apart. The defense was 717 00:32:47.759 --> 00:32:48.880 among the best in the country. 718 00:32:48.960 --> 00:32:49.079 You know. 719 00:32:49.119 --> 00:32:52.200 The quarterback thing was such an outlier in terms of 720 00:32:52.200 --> 00:32:54.640 how a program should operate. The you know, the fact 721 00:32:54.640 --> 00:32:57.039 that they didn't have a capable backup, someone who could 722 00:32:57.319 --> 00:32:59.240 step in and win games two years in a row 723 00:32:59.519 --> 00:33:03.319 probably alblematic, right, But when you add a quarterback like 724 00:33:03.400 --> 00:33:06.640 they did, who's you know, has documented success and you 725 00:33:06.680 --> 00:33:09.920 bring his coordinator with him, and so there's no learning 726 00:33:09.960 --> 00:33:13.559 curve with the offense. That's a formula that has worked 727 00:33:13.920 --> 00:33:16.160 several times in college football in recent years. I mean, 728 00:33:16.319 --> 00:33:18.400 we just talked about cam Ward you know, worked for 729 00:33:18.480 --> 00:33:20.599 him at Washington State. We saw it with Caleb Williams 730 00:33:20.640 --> 00:33:23.240 at USC. The list goes on, right, and so I 731 00:33:23.640 --> 00:33:28.319 think it there's enough reason to be optimistic and confident 732 00:33:28.400 --> 00:33:30.640 that they can they can be a contender again in 733 00:33:30.680 --> 00:33:32.960 the Big Twelve, if you know, even allowing for some 734 00:33:33.039 --> 00:33:35.000 drop up on defense, because that team that that side 735 00:33:35.000 --> 00:33:37.000 of the ball was so good. I think the offense 736 00:33:37.000 --> 00:33:39.440 will be a lot better. But at the same time, 737 00:33:40.000 --> 00:33:43.000 I think the conference is really improving too. Like Arizona State, 738 00:33:43.119 --> 00:33:46.720 their improvement is is was pretty remarkable. I mean, I 739 00:33:46.799 --> 00:33:49.279 would say probably takes a step back. Those receivers they 740 00:33:49.279 --> 00:33:51.480 lost were really good. I think Colorado with that Trivis 741 00:33:51.559 --> 00:33:53.920 Hunter probably takes a step back. But it's such a 742 00:33:53.960 --> 00:33:55.799 deep you know, there's so many teams now, right, So 743 00:33:55.839 --> 00:33:57.359 it's not like you have to you just have to 744 00:33:57.359 --> 00:34:00.680 beat nine other teams, ten other teams. There's just so 745 00:34:00.720 --> 00:34:04.240 many teams who are adding and really competitive. And you know, 746 00:34:04.880 --> 00:34:07.039 you mentioned kind of the state of college football. Everyone's 747 00:34:07.079 --> 00:34:10.000 new and so Texas Tech has a lot of money 748 00:34:10.039 --> 00:34:12.320 and they're anile program. They're bringing in a lot of talent. 749 00:34:13.000 --> 00:34:15.760 Arguably the best transfer class in college football if you're 750 00:34:15.800 --> 00:34:18.599 into those sort of rankings. And so, yeah, look, do 751 00:34:18.679 --> 00:34:20.599 I think Utah deserves to be the favorite to win 752 00:34:20.679 --> 00:34:23.239 the conversating Absolutely not. I don't think that would be 753 00:34:23.320 --> 00:34:25.440 kind of ridiculous to say, you're in April. But yeah, look, 754 00:34:26.840 --> 00:34:30.519 a lot of teams that have come out of nowhere to 755 00:34:30.639 --> 00:34:33.280 to improve significantly, and in Utah certainly wouldn't be coming 756 00:34:33.320 --> 00:34:35.880 out of nowhere the tracker who's there. They've had to dip, 757 00:34:35.920 --> 00:34:39.079 but there's enough experience and incredibility in that room to 758 00:34:39.119 --> 00:34:41.639 allow for a quick return to prominence. 759 00:34:41.719 --> 00:34:44.800 Regarding the future of college football, you know, it is 760 00:34:44.840 --> 00:34:47.719 an exercise and futility to try to predict any of 761 00:34:47.800 --> 00:34:51.559 this stuff. And we continue to await the final settlement 762 00:34:51.599 --> 00:34:54.440 with a house for NC double A, as Judge Wolken 763 00:34:54.519 --> 00:34:56.679 has basically given them a couple of weeks to change 764 00:34:56.679 --> 00:35:01.000 the roster limits before she will even entertain the settlement. 765 00:35:01.320 --> 00:35:03.880 But I want to revisit kind of your belief about 766 00:35:03.880 --> 00:35:06.480 where we could be headed, whether or not there is 767 00:35:06.519 --> 00:35:08.719 a pro model on the horizon, whether or not there 768 00:35:08.800 --> 00:35:11.679 is this big super conference on the horizon with two 769 00:35:11.719 --> 00:35:14.360 conferences that look like the AFC and the NFC, or 770 00:35:14.679 --> 00:35:16.719 you know, the Trump administration comes in. Some of the 771 00:35:17.360 --> 00:35:21.239 changes to the Department of Education and other departments have 772 00:35:21.360 --> 00:35:24.239 kind of changed people's perspective about their belief about what 773 00:35:24.320 --> 00:35:27.039 the future college football looks like. What's the Kyle Bonna 774 00:35:27.039 --> 00:35:29.119 gera belief about what the future of the sport looks like. 775 00:35:31.519 --> 00:35:36.000 Yeah, it's I still think it's trending in a direction 776 00:35:36.119 --> 00:35:40.440 to where it's like the pyramid will keep narrowing at 777 00:35:40.440 --> 00:35:43.880 the top, right, and eventually, just like we saw the 778 00:35:43.880 --> 00:35:47.760 Pac twelve, you know, rest and peace go away. I 779 00:35:47.840 --> 00:35:52.280 think eventually that same sort of evolution feels like a 780 00:35:52.360 --> 00:35:54.719 logical way this could go, right because if you are 781 00:35:55.280 --> 00:35:58.199 in the sec right, you're Alabama, Georgia, we all know 782 00:35:58.239 --> 00:36:00.679 the names, and you're in the big ten Ohio state, 783 00:36:00.760 --> 00:36:04.239 and you know whoever else Michigan, we all know the names. 784 00:36:05.360 --> 00:36:09.880 Are you comfortable sharing equal revenue with you know, with 785 00:36:09.920 --> 00:36:12.440 your Marylands of the world, with your Vanderbilts of the world. 786 00:36:12.719 --> 00:36:16.800 You know, maybe, but also maybe not. I think it's 787 00:36:16.840 --> 00:36:20.840 completely reasonable to expect those teams at the top too 788 00:36:21.639 --> 00:36:25.360 at some point want to want a bigger, you know, 789 00:36:25.400 --> 00:36:28.800 bigger slice of the pie, right, or there's another kind 790 00:36:28.800 --> 00:36:31.360 of breakoff where these teams all at the top say hey, like, 791 00:36:31.400 --> 00:36:33.360 look that you take the top, whatever the number is, 792 00:36:33.400 --> 00:36:37.039 pick pick one at random, sixteen thirty two, whatever, forty, 793 00:36:37.880 --> 00:36:39.960 and say hey, if we get together, then look at 794 00:36:39.960 --> 00:36:43.000 how much more money we can make. The college programs 795 00:36:43.039 --> 00:36:46.639 in university have been operating with that, with that mentality 796 00:36:46.679 --> 00:36:48.880 for a while now, and so the idea that it 797 00:36:48.920 --> 00:36:52.039 all of a sudden would go away seems you know, 798 00:36:52.360 --> 00:36:54.639 I don't know if I'd buy that. There's no logic 799 00:36:54.679 --> 00:36:57.480 to indicate why that would stop. We are at a 800 00:36:57.519 --> 00:36:59.360 pro model. These guys are making money. There's going to 801 00:36:59.440 --> 00:37:03.079 you know, in one the roster rules are all set, 802 00:37:03.320 --> 00:37:05.719 there's going to be a clear path forward on how 803 00:37:05.719 --> 00:37:08.239 to manage roster, how to distribute you know, some of 804 00:37:08.239 --> 00:37:11.320 the shared revenue stuff that's part of all this all 805 00:37:11.400 --> 00:37:14.360 this madness, right, I'm having trouble keeping track of all 806 00:37:14.400 --> 00:37:17.679 the matriculations myself, and so once you have these programs 807 00:37:17.679 --> 00:37:22.199 that we're able to pay players directly. Now, at one point, look, 808 00:37:22.280 --> 00:37:23.760 Kyle Willeningham was actual talking about it is a couple 809 00:37:23.840 --> 00:37:26.039 years ago. I remember like being very clear, like, look, 810 00:37:26.079 --> 00:37:27.800 we're going to get there. It's just a matter of when, Like, 811 00:37:28.239 --> 00:37:30.960 are we going to get to a point where eligibility 812 00:37:31.000 --> 00:37:33.559 even matters? Are you going to say, is the four 813 00:37:33.599 --> 00:37:36.599 year eligibility model. We've already seen that pushed and tested 814 00:37:37.400 --> 00:37:40.000 in several different ways, whether it's COVID, whether it's junior 815 00:37:40.039 --> 00:37:43.119 college or red shirts or transfers. Right, every it seems 816 00:37:43.119 --> 00:37:45.239 like at every turn that players have fought for more 817 00:37:45.280 --> 00:37:48.679 eligibility that came out on top recently in the court system. 818 00:37:49.079 --> 00:37:51.480 So eventually do you get to a place where you 819 00:37:51.519 --> 00:37:55.000 know there isn't a four year eligibility cap. I don't know. 820 00:37:55.039 --> 00:37:58.840 It seems crazy that college football would eventually get there, 821 00:37:58.920 --> 00:38:01.199 But I don't think guy would write it out either 822 00:38:01.320 --> 00:38:03.519 write it off either. And whether that's in five years 823 00:38:03.599 --> 00:38:05.800 or ten years or fifteen, you know, it doesn't like 824 00:38:06.079 --> 00:38:08.760 it doesn't matter. Like eventually, I think all those things 825 00:38:08.800 --> 00:38:11.000 are going to be tested. And you know, like you said, 826 00:38:11.039 --> 00:38:13.400 exercise in utility, there's just so many moving pieces to 827 00:38:13.440 --> 00:38:16.599 have a great idea where it's all headed. I don't 828 00:38:16.599 --> 00:38:18.519 think anyone can be competent of that other than like 829 00:38:18.639 --> 00:38:20.760 changes just going to continue to be inevitable. 830 00:38:20.960 --> 00:38:22.880 Before I set you loose, I am going to sneak 831 00:38:22.880 --> 00:38:25.079 in a soccer question, and no, I will not ask 832 00:38:25.119 --> 00:38:28.039 your take on the current battle at left back for RSL, 833 00:38:28.480 --> 00:38:31.239 but I will ask you we have this young player 834 00:38:31.400 --> 00:38:35.000 whose star continues to rise, Diego Luna, who had another 835 00:38:35.039 --> 00:38:38.599 brace last week. He in San Diego and for whatever reason, 836 00:38:38.679 --> 00:38:41.840 the Olympic coach didn't like him. But Pochettino seems to 837 00:38:41.960 --> 00:38:44.239 like him, and he's had a couple of national team 838 00:38:44.280 --> 00:38:47.760 call ups. There's this great, you know, snapshot of Diego 839 00:38:47.760 --> 00:38:50.559 breaking his nose and continuing to play and really endearing 840 00:38:50.599 --> 00:38:52.639 himself to all the goobs that love the US men's 841 00:38:52.679 --> 00:38:55.519 national team, Sam's Army, whoever they are. Do you think 842 00:38:55.519 --> 00:38:58.280 there's a chance that Diego Luna will be on the 843 00:38:58.400 --> 00:39:00.719 US men's national team for the upcome World Cup here 844 00:39:00.719 --> 00:39:01.320 in this region? 845 00:39:03.079 --> 00:39:03.280 Yeah? 846 00:39:03.400 --> 00:39:03.920 No, I think so. 847 00:39:04.320 --> 00:39:07.079 I think there's a chance will be with him this summer. Like, 848 00:39:07.239 --> 00:39:09.920 I think there's enough, and I think he like the 849 00:39:09.920 --> 00:39:12.840 fact that Poschattino does like him. I think that's probably 850 00:39:12.880 --> 00:39:15.079 the best indicator that he has a chance. Like I 851 00:39:15.079 --> 00:39:17.400 don't think if I was projecting the roster today, i'd 852 00:39:17.440 --> 00:39:21.880 include him on it. But he's his trajectory is rising 853 00:39:21.920 --> 00:39:24.400 in a way to certainly you can't rule it out 854 00:39:24.679 --> 00:39:26.440 right now. I think just the way he's playing an 855 00:39:26.519 --> 00:39:29.039 MLS has been has been really impressive. He's a guy 856 00:39:29.079 --> 00:39:31.960 who actually paid attention to for for for quite a 857 00:39:31.960 --> 00:39:33.559 while because I mean, you know, I lived here in 858 00:39:34.079 --> 00:39:37.360 the Bay Area, he's from around here. Was actually I 859 00:39:37.360 --> 00:39:39.880 believe he was cut by the earthquakes at a really 860 00:39:39.920 --> 00:39:42.880 young age, and so he's he's someone that, like you, 861 00:39:43.119 --> 00:39:45.000 I heard that story early on. Then he's you know, 862 00:39:45.000 --> 00:39:47.239 with El Paso and kind of working his way through 863 00:39:47.320 --> 00:39:49.880 USL gets the shot at at RSN. I has really 864 00:39:49.880 --> 00:39:54.480 done an incredible job, you know, not letting the early 865 00:39:54.639 --> 00:39:59.159 career disappointment stunt his growth. And yeah, I think it's 866 00:39:59.159 --> 00:40:00.960 really only a matter of I mean, enjoy them in 867 00:40:01.320 --> 00:40:03.119 Salt Lake for as long as he can, because he's 868 00:40:03.119 --> 00:40:05.800 a guy who certainly feels like he should be headed 869 00:40:05.840 --> 00:40:07.679 to Europe sooner rather than later. 870 00:40:07.920 --> 00:40:10.039 Kyle, thanks man for the time. I always appreciate it. 871 00:40:10.119 --> 00:40:11.079 Have a great week and we'll. 872 00:40:11.000 --> 00:40:11.519 Do it again soon. 873 00:40:11.559 --> 00:40:13.079 Okay, sure thing all right? Thanks Man. 874 00:40:13.360 --> 00:40:17.480 Bonager covers college football sometimes soccer for ESPN. Does not 875 00:40:17.480 --> 00:40:20.239 tweet anymore, but you can find his piece pieces up 876 00:40:20.280 --> 00:40:21.760 on espn dot com. 877 00:40:22.000 --> 00:40:22.800 Stop spot today. 878 00:40:22.840 --> 00:40:26.159 Courtesy of our friends at IFA Country Stores, any drive 879 00:40:26.239 --> 00:40:28.280 to the basket begins with the first step on the court. 880 00:40:28.320 --> 00:40:30.719 That's the ultimate power move. IFA Step one. 881 00:40:30.760 --> 00:40:33.960 Crabgrass Preventer and their lawn food is the first choice 882 00:40:34.000 --> 00:40:36.039 to give your yard the healthy green look you admire. 883 00:40:36.119 --> 00:40:37.760 The neighbors will be green with envy. 884 00:40:37.840 --> 00:40:41.039 So shot IFA online at IFA dot co op or 885 00:40:41.079 --> 00:40:42.760 stop by one of their neighborhood stores. 886 00:40:42.800 --> 00:40:45.800 Today. Tim McMahon, Happy Tuesday, sir, How. 887 00:40:45.679 --> 00:40:48.239 Are you otty partner? How are you doing? 888 00:40:48.360 --> 00:40:49.360 I'm good, man, I'm good. 889 00:40:49.400 --> 00:40:51.880 You know, we always have this debate here in State 890 00:40:51.960 --> 00:40:54.880 about like who's the best local college basketball player to 891 00:40:54.920 --> 00:40:58.519 play in the pros? And it usually it usually involves 892 00:40:58.599 --> 00:41:00.159 b YU players and UTAPA. 893 00:41:00.360 --> 00:41:01.920 It's clearly Damian Lillard. 894 00:41:01.800 --> 00:41:05.360 Who played his college basketball Weaver State, just got it. 895 00:41:05.519 --> 00:41:07.159 You know, He's one of our favorites around here. 896 00:41:07.880 --> 00:41:11.079 I wonder what you make if this entire situation, what's 897 00:41:11.159 --> 00:41:13.280 next for Dame and what's next for Milwaukee? 898 00:41:14.079 --> 00:41:17.760 Yeah, Unfortunately, what's next for Dame is a long ruling 899 00:41:17.840 --> 00:41:22.360 rehab process. You know, I don't know that Dame's going 900 00:41:22.400 --> 00:41:24.840 to be able to get back to the level that 901 00:41:24.920 --> 00:41:28.400 he's played at his entire career. Obviously, a mid thirties 902 00:41:28.440 --> 00:41:32.360 achilles injury is devastating, and you know, the guy's work 903 00:41:32.400 --> 00:41:38.000 ethics speaks for itself, certainly his skill. It's a really 904 00:41:38.039 --> 00:41:42.519 difficult situation and in Milwaukee, odds are they get bounced tonight? 905 00:41:42.599 --> 00:41:46.199 And then the clear big question will be is this 906 00:41:46.320 --> 00:41:51.239 Gianness's swan song in Milwaukee is this when he finally 907 00:41:52.280 --> 00:41:54.679 comes to the conclusion that it's it's time for the 908 00:41:54.719 --> 00:41:57.639 next chapter of his career. And I think if you 909 00:41:57.679 --> 00:42:00.559 took a poll around the league, you would and you 910 00:42:00.719 --> 00:42:03.199 get more people to say yes to that question than 911 00:42:03.239 --> 00:42:07.280 no at this point. And you know, if that's the case, 912 00:42:07.480 --> 00:42:10.480 shame's gonna be a really tough stretch for the Bucks 913 00:42:10.480 --> 00:42:12.639 because they have been all in on winning a title 914 00:42:13.239 --> 00:42:16.320 around the honest for a while now. Obviously, the great 915 00:42:16.360 --> 00:42:19.360 news is they did hang a banner. The bad news is, 916 00:42:20.239 --> 00:42:22.480 you know, they are out their own first round capital 917 00:42:22.880 --> 00:42:26.800 until twenty thirty one, I believe, and you know, if 918 00:42:27.039 --> 00:42:29.760 you're honest, does indeed decide that it's time to go, 919 00:42:30.320 --> 00:42:32.119 They'll make the best deal that they can. But it's 920 00:42:32.159 --> 00:42:33.920 going to be a while before the Bucks are going 921 00:42:34.000 --> 00:42:36.599 to be a competitive franchise again. 922 00:42:36.960 --> 00:42:39.480 So what are the most likely and who are the 923 00:42:39.519 --> 00:42:42.920 most likely suitors if Giannice is on the market. Obviously 924 00:42:43.000 --> 00:42:44.960 anybody would love to have a dude like that, And 925 00:42:45.360 --> 00:42:47.119 I do want to say, just for the record, I 926 00:42:47.159 --> 00:42:51.280 really respect what Milwaukee decided to do to go all 927 00:42:51.280 --> 00:42:54.800 in to try to surround him at any price because 928 00:42:54.880 --> 00:42:56.800 Dame is making I think one hundred and twenty million 929 00:42:56.840 --> 00:43:00.199 dollars for the next two years, and Milwaukee, unlike don't 930 00:43:00.199 --> 00:43:02.199 know Denver, decided that they were going to do everything 931 00:43:02.239 --> 00:43:05.079 they could to maximize a generational talent while they had them. 932 00:43:05.360 --> 00:43:07.480 If this is it, you know, and we are in 933 00:43:07.519 --> 00:43:10.119 Salt Lake City, we have a basketball team with tremendous 934 00:43:10.400 --> 00:43:14.360 draft capital and salary flexibility, I don't I'm not sitting 935 00:43:14.360 --> 00:43:15.920 here saying the Jazz are going to make this move 936 00:43:15.920 --> 00:43:18.599 for you, honest, but what sort of deal do you 937 00:43:18.679 --> 00:43:20.280 expect if Giannie is dealt? 938 00:43:21.159 --> 00:43:24.079 I mean, you've heard a whole bunch of noise about Brooklyn, 939 00:43:24.079 --> 00:43:26.679 and I'll be honest, I don't see how that makes 940 00:43:26.679 --> 00:43:30.079 sense for either side. I just don't like for your 941 00:43:30.159 --> 00:43:32.320 honest Okay, you can talk about a big market, but 942 00:43:32.360 --> 00:43:35.719 let's be honest. Brooklyn is the JV team in New York, 943 00:43:36.519 --> 00:43:39.760 and well, I don't have to give up a lot 944 00:43:39.760 --> 00:43:42.199 of stuff to get him, and they're not close to 945 00:43:42.239 --> 00:43:44.960 being a title contender, So that one, frankly confuses me 946 00:43:45.800 --> 00:43:48.119 on both sides. I think Brooklyn needs to go through 947 00:43:48.159 --> 00:43:51.519 a rebuild. I don't see how trying to press fast 948 00:43:51.559 --> 00:43:54.920 forward to get Yannis in there accomplishes anything, and I 949 00:43:54.960 --> 00:43:57.760 don't see why that would be an attractive situation for you, honest, 950 00:43:58.480 --> 00:44:00.360 but that is the team that you hear the most. 951 00:44:01.559 --> 00:44:03.320 I think you're going to hear a lot about Houston, 952 00:44:04.000 --> 00:44:06.920 you know where clearly, Hey, I've got a story come 953 00:44:07.000 --> 00:44:09.559 out tomorrow about how Houston is a go to guy 954 00:44:09.559 --> 00:44:14.119 and elite offensive bingein away from being a real deal, 955 00:44:14.159 --> 00:44:19.119 bona fide title contender. Yeah, be honest, is thirty years old, 956 00:44:19.199 --> 00:44:21.079 still in his prime. Obviously, they'd have to give up 957 00:44:21.079 --> 00:44:23.239 a lot to get them, but they've got a lot 958 00:44:23.239 --> 00:44:27.239 of young talent, They've got a ton of assets with 959 00:44:27.320 --> 00:44:29.960 some of the deals that they've made. To me, the 960 00:44:30.079 --> 00:44:33.599 Rockets would be the team, you know, the realistic destination 961 00:44:34.360 --> 00:44:38.480 that would make the most sense. But you know, I'm 962 00:44:38.480 --> 00:44:41.119 sure there will be plenty of teams that would be interested. 963 00:44:41.239 --> 00:44:43.239 And then obviously, the other thing that has to happen 964 00:44:43.280 --> 00:44:46.039 is has to the Bucks aren't just going to trade him. 965 00:44:46.400 --> 00:44:48.719 They you know, Giannis has to ask for it, and 966 00:44:49.079 --> 00:44:51.440 I'm not certain that he's reached that decision yet. 967 00:44:52.199 --> 00:44:56.480 So Milwaukee's motivation would sound like what Tim because is 968 00:44:56.519 --> 00:45:00.320 it when you're if they decide to go this route, 969 00:45:00.320 --> 00:45:03.639 when you trade somebody like that, you have so many 970 00:45:03.719 --> 00:45:06.960 options at your disposal. You could ask for two or 971 00:45:07.000 --> 00:45:10.199 three really good players to keep you afloat. You could 972 00:45:10.239 --> 00:45:12.679 decide to go all in on draft capital and cap 973 00:45:12.719 --> 00:45:15.400 space and maybe a couple of youngsters, and then rely 974 00:45:15.559 --> 00:45:18.000 upon the future. Because if they are just simply looking 975 00:45:18.360 --> 00:45:20.960 to grab a bunch of draft assets and young players 976 00:45:21.000 --> 00:45:23.519 and completely go all in on just a tank or whatever, 977 00:45:23.800 --> 00:45:26.199 a team like the Jazz does make sense. But if 978 00:45:26.199 --> 00:45:29.519 they are trying to stay competitive and maybe even salvage 979 00:45:29.559 --> 00:45:32.000 another year with Dame if he gets healthy, maybe they 980 00:45:32.000 --> 00:45:35.159 do want You know, I saw some scenario about like 981 00:45:35.199 --> 00:45:38.280 a Karl Anthony Townsend mckel bridges in New York. 982 00:45:38.320 --> 00:45:39.760 I have no idea if there's anything there. 983 00:45:39.800 --> 00:45:42.239 But what do you think Milwaukee would be looking for 984 00:45:42.280 --> 00:45:43.400 should they deal Giannis? 985 00:45:44.480 --> 00:45:47.719 Yeah? I probably should have mentioned the Knicks. The Knicks 986 00:45:47.719 --> 00:45:50.599 have definitely been a team that it's no secret they're 987 00:45:50.679 --> 00:45:55.320 hunting for, you know, top level superstar. And you know 988 00:45:55.639 --> 00:45:57.679 there's definitely a team that has been mentioned as well. 989 00:45:58.039 --> 00:46:00.760 Here's the thing. The Bucks can't go into a like 990 00:46:00.840 --> 00:46:03.960 a traditional full fledged rebuild in the sense of a 991 00:46:04.000 --> 00:46:07.559 tank because they don't benefit from that. They've either got 992 00:46:07.599 --> 00:46:11.679 their picks gone out right or via swap again until 993 00:46:11.719 --> 00:46:16.239 twenty thirty one. So to do a total teardown doesn't 994 00:46:16.280 --> 00:46:20.480 make any sense whatsoever for the Milwaukee Bucks because they've 995 00:46:20.480 --> 00:46:23.519 they've blown through all their draft capital over the next 996 00:46:23.519 --> 00:46:26.559 several years while going all in trying to build around Johnis, 997 00:46:26.960 --> 00:46:30.159 you know, trying to win another title with them, and 998 00:46:30.320 --> 00:46:32.360 you know, I don't think that's the situation you regret. 999 00:46:32.599 --> 00:46:35.199 I mean, you don't get a guy like that very often. 1000 00:46:36.039 --> 00:46:39.920 You know, for Milwaukee, it was almost fifty years from 1001 00:46:39.920 --> 00:46:42.280 the time they lost Kareem until your honest was able 1002 00:46:42.320 --> 00:46:46.960 to deliver a title for them. But it's put them 1003 00:46:47.000 --> 00:46:50.800 in a like they're in a really compromised position now 1004 00:46:51.199 --> 00:46:55.480 because again, typically if you're forced to trade this type 1005 00:46:55.480 --> 00:46:58.960 of talent, then it is okay. It's like Houston did, 1006 00:46:59.000 --> 00:47:01.960 it's time to tear down. When they had to trade 1007 00:47:02.039 --> 00:47:05.639 James Harden and go through kind of a traditional rebuild, 1008 00:47:05.679 --> 00:47:08.920 it's start to really pay dividends for them. You can't 1009 00:47:08.920 --> 00:47:11.679 do that if you don't have your own picks. 1010 00:47:12.159 --> 00:47:16.000 Right, Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's true. Good point just while 1011 00:47:16.000 --> 00:47:18.039 we're in the Jazz space. Of course, I don't think 1012 00:47:18.079 --> 00:47:21.719 we really can understand what their offseason plan is or 1013 00:47:21.760 --> 00:47:24.719 will look like until May twelfth, when we know when 1014 00:47:24.719 --> 00:47:27.280 they're drafting. But as you and I have discussed, as 1015 00:47:27.280 --> 00:47:30.000 a result of the decision that Danny and Justin made 1016 00:47:30.079 --> 00:47:33.679 to move on from the last good iteration of this 1017 00:47:33.760 --> 00:47:37.519 team and stockpile draft assets and have very clean books, 1018 00:47:37.760 --> 00:47:40.119 any of the teams that do elect to yard sale 1019 00:47:40.119 --> 00:47:43.440 I'm using air quotes could look to the Jazz to 1020 00:47:44.159 --> 00:47:46.760 grab some of their assets and utilize the books to 1021 00:47:46.840 --> 00:47:49.639 shed salary. Are you hearing anything about what this offseason 1022 00:47:49.639 --> 00:47:51.000 could look like for the Utah Jazz. 1023 00:47:51.039 --> 00:47:53.360 Nobody is under the phrase big game hunting yet. 1024 00:47:53.239 --> 00:47:56.400 Tim, No, I don't think it'll be big game hunting. 1025 00:47:56.440 --> 00:48:01.440 And obviously, yeah, let's be honest, success of this offseason, 1026 00:48:01.880 --> 00:48:03.760 you're gonna have a pretty good idea, like you said, 1027 00:48:03.800 --> 00:48:08.840 when you hear the lottery results. But you know they 1028 00:48:08.840 --> 00:48:10.960 are in a position where they can be opportunistic. They 1029 00:48:11.000 --> 00:48:16.280 do have several veterans who are on large expiring contracts 1030 00:48:16.480 --> 00:48:19.079 and would make a lot of sense for teams that 1031 00:48:20.119 --> 00:48:22.599 are looking to clean up their books. You know they 1032 00:48:22.639 --> 00:48:26.159 do have a bunch of picks to play with. You know, 1033 00:48:26.239 --> 00:48:29.519 haven't said that. I know that the Jets have a 1034 00:48:29.599 --> 00:48:32.400 very long term view at this point. I don't think 1035 00:48:32.480 --> 00:48:37.039 that anybody's goal in that front office or even in 1036 00:48:37.039 --> 00:48:38.800 that building is going to be Okay, let's put the 1037 00:48:38.840 --> 00:48:42.519 best possible team in place for the twenty five twenty 1038 00:48:42.559 --> 00:48:46.000 six season. You know, they're trying to be able to 1039 00:48:46.079 --> 00:48:49.559 crack open a window as a contender, and they're not 1040 00:48:49.800 --> 00:48:52.159 you know, one move or even one summer away from that. 1041 00:48:52.880 --> 00:48:53.480 Nope, they're not. 1042 00:48:53.920 --> 00:48:56.760 And they're not one player or two players, three players, 1043 00:48:56.840 --> 00:48:59.280 or maybe even four players away from being close. 1044 00:48:59.360 --> 00:49:00.679 So this will take some time. 1045 00:49:01.400 --> 00:49:05.119 Three years now since the Jazz had spring basketball as 1046 00:49:05.159 --> 00:49:06.400 far as an experience here. 1047 00:49:06.239 --> 00:49:07.639 In Salt Lake, So only time will tell. 1048 00:49:07.760 --> 00:49:10.840 All right, you reference the Rockets and this Warriors Rocket 1049 00:49:10.920 --> 00:49:15.159 series has been must see TV. Butler comes back last night, 1050 00:49:15.239 --> 00:49:18.199 goes for fourteen in the fourth quarter, closing out This 1051 00:49:18.280 --> 00:49:20.480 Houston Rocket team is going to be a royal pain 1052 00:49:20.559 --> 00:49:22.800 in the ass. But what are your takeaways from the 1053 00:49:22.800 --> 00:49:25.000 first four games of Golden State in Houston? 1054 00:49:26.599 --> 00:49:30.599 Yeah, I mean the Rockets aren't ready. They don't have 1055 00:49:31.480 --> 00:49:34.239 the go to guy that you need to compete with 1056 00:49:34.440 --> 00:49:38.239 good playoff teams, and that's not a surprise. You know, 1057 00:49:38.239 --> 00:49:42.440 they're young, and they kind of they win with grime. 1058 00:49:43.360 --> 00:49:47.519 They've been in Medio Grosson's team all season long. A 1059 00:49:47.719 --> 00:49:51.320 good defensive team, a great rebounding team. But they are 1060 00:49:51.440 --> 00:49:55.079 one piece, one major piece away from being a real 1061 00:49:55.199 --> 00:49:56.719 threat to make a deep playoff run. 1062 00:49:57.119 --> 00:50:00.760 Kevin Durant, Devin Booker. Phoenix has to do something. A 1063 00:50:00.760 --> 00:50:03.440 lot of people draw a line between Phoenix and Houston. 1064 00:50:03.519 --> 00:50:04.880 You think we could see some movement there. 1065 00:50:06.159 --> 00:50:09.639 Durant is a possibility. There will be internal discussions in 1066 00:50:09.719 --> 00:50:14.039 Houston about whether that makes sense, how much would make 1067 00:50:14.079 --> 00:50:18.400 sense in terms of cost to to you know, in 1068 00:50:18.480 --> 00:50:20.679 the trade as well as he's gonna have to be 1069 00:50:20.719 --> 00:50:24.119 a contract extension. I don't I don't know that I 1070 00:50:24.119 --> 00:50:28.440 would call that likely. I'd call it possible. Booker's not possible. 1071 00:50:28.559 --> 00:50:30.679 Phoenix is not trading Devin Booker this summer. 1072 00:50:31.599 --> 00:50:34.000 So do you think anybody on Phoenix could be a 1073 00:50:34.039 --> 00:50:36.639 very well, I guess the Brad Beale thing. Uh, he 1074 00:50:36.880 --> 00:50:40.400 has his own Uh, he's got the no trade clause, 1075 00:50:40.480 --> 00:50:43.079 so they might be stuck with him. But anybody outside 1076 00:50:43.119 --> 00:50:45.159 of Booker and Bill available on that roster, then. 1077 00:50:45.119 --> 00:50:49.119 Yeah, everybody. Yeah, Now Kevin Durant is going to have 1078 00:50:49.159 --> 00:50:51.719 to stay on where he goes. He's got one year 1079 00:50:51.760 --> 00:50:56.159 left on his contract, is extension eligible. You know the 1080 00:50:56.239 --> 00:50:58.880 team's not going to trade. I would be shocked if 1081 00:50:58.880 --> 00:51:01.800 a team would trade Kevin Rant as a rental player 1082 00:51:01.840 --> 00:51:03.679 for just one year, given the cops that it would 1083 00:51:03.719 --> 00:51:07.519 take probably to get him. And you just haven't talked 1084 00:51:07.519 --> 00:51:11.159 to people in Phoenix. You know that they intend to 1085 00:51:11.199 --> 00:51:13.400 cooperate with kat and Katie's representation. 1086 00:51:13.920 --> 00:51:16.639 Lakers on the brink of elimination, you know, you're not 1087 00:51:16.679 --> 00:51:19.239 going to say they're done until they actually are, because 1088 00:51:19.239 --> 00:51:21.519 they have two generationally special players. 1089 00:51:21.800 --> 00:51:24.440 I wonder you know JJ Reddick. 1090 00:51:24.119 --> 00:51:26.320 Elects to play all five of those guys every single 1091 00:51:26.360 --> 00:51:27.559 minute in the second half. 1092 00:51:28.679 --> 00:51:30.280 I mean, look, I'm not a psychologist. 1093 00:51:30.519 --> 00:51:33.199 I just wonder if that was a message sent to 1094 00:51:33.239 --> 00:51:35.400 the front office like we just have no depth. We 1095 00:51:35.440 --> 00:51:37.920 have nobody like I'm going to go with these five 1096 00:51:37.960 --> 00:51:40.280 players because I don't have any other options off the bench. 1097 00:51:40.719 --> 00:51:43.440 Lebron didn't score in the fourth, Luca looked gas, Finney 1098 00:51:43.440 --> 00:51:46.440 Smith had a dunk that was short what were your 1099 00:51:46.440 --> 00:51:49.400 thoughts watching JJ Reddick simply go with all five of 1100 00:51:49.440 --> 00:51:52.119 those players for every moment in the second half, and 1101 00:51:52.199 --> 00:51:53.679 you think the Lakers can get back. 1102 00:51:53.480 --> 00:51:56.920 In this well, I mean no question that it was 1103 00:51:57.000 --> 00:52:01.960 a move that rate of desperation, and it was a 1104 00:52:02.000 --> 00:52:07.280 move that you know, I thought pretty clearly backfired. And look, 1105 00:52:07.519 --> 00:52:11.159 there were times last year where Lebron I'm sorry, where 1106 00:52:11.199 --> 00:52:13.639 Luca had played the entire second half for the Mavericks 1107 00:52:13.679 --> 00:52:16.679 in the playoffs, but he wasn't coming off the longness 1108 00:52:16.679 --> 00:52:18.519 in the absence of his career. You know, he didn't 1109 00:52:18.519 --> 00:52:22.199 have to condition in the issues early in the season 1110 00:52:22.239 --> 00:52:24.639 that he did this year. And he you know, he 1111 00:52:24.800 --> 00:52:32.079 wasn't Bartner's guts out thirty six hours earlier. So obviously 1112 00:52:33.119 --> 00:52:36.480 you know it didn't work out. It's highly a highly 1113 00:52:36.559 --> 00:52:40.000 questionable decision, even with the ross that they had. I 1114 00:52:40.440 --> 00:52:43.840 thought you had to at least get Luca Lebron a 1115 00:52:43.880 --> 00:52:48.320 little bit in the second half. But you know that 1116 00:52:48.320 --> 00:52:51.679 that Ryan they need, they need better death than they 1117 00:52:51.719 --> 00:52:54.280 need a real big man. You know, the Jackson Hayes 1118 00:52:54.360 --> 00:52:56.280 guy that they played four minutes in a playoff game. 1119 00:52:56.360 --> 00:52:59.760 Decided I don't want to see anymore of so I 1120 00:52:59.760 --> 00:53:02.960 think that they are at least one transaction cycle, perhaps 1121 00:53:02.960 --> 00:53:06.199 two or three away from being a real title contender 1122 00:53:06.239 --> 00:53:08.599 in LA. And you know the other part of that, though, 1123 00:53:08.800 --> 00:53:12.239 is Okay, how much longer is Lebron at forty going 1124 00:53:12.280 --> 00:53:13.559 to be able to play at this level? 1125 00:53:14.920 --> 00:53:17.840 You know, over the past three four months or whatever, 1126 00:53:17.960 --> 00:53:21.599 after Oklahoma City clearly established themselves as the best team 1127 00:53:21.639 --> 00:53:23.559 in the West and maybe the best team in pro 1128 00:53:23.719 --> 00:53:26.719 basketball on a weekly basis, I would ask you to 1129 00:53:26.719 --> 00:53:29.360 revisit a topic like who's the biggest threat to them? 1130 00:53:29.760 --> 00:53:31.039 Is there a threat to them? 1131 00:53:31.079 --> 00:53:34.519 After watching what they did to Memphis Round one, I 1132 00:53:34.519 --> 00:53:35.880 don't think the next. 1133 00:53:35.800 --> 00:53:38.960 Round will be easy, whether it's the Clippers of the Nuggets. 1134 00:53:38.960 --> 00:53:40.559 I don't think it's going to be easy. And obviously 1135 00:53:40.559 --> 00:53:44.599 the Nuggets you're looking at specifically because Joke was just 1136 00:53:44.639 --> 00:53:47.360 such a dominant force. But man, the Clippers have been 1137 00:53:47.360 --> 00:53:50.760 playing as well as anybody for like two months now. 1138 00:53:51.519 --> 00:53:55.199 And Kawhi looks like the guy who's been a finals 1139 00:53:55.199 --> 00:53:58.280 at VP twice. You know, he's got that kind of 1140 00:53:58.280 --> 00:54:02.360 a spring in his step. You know, they do have depth. 1141 00:54:02.400 --> 00:54:06.079 They are a great defensive team. You know, they do 1142 00:54:06.159 --> 00:54:10.519 have a couple other guys who are legitimate shot creators. 1143 00:54:11.400 --> 00:54:15.199 I think the Clippers are the biggest threat to the 1144 00:54:15.239 --> 00:54:17.199 Thunder in terms of getting out of the Western Conference. 1145 00:54:18.000 --> 00:54:22.639 So that brings us to tonight, obviously, a big game 1146 00:54:22.679 --> 00:54:25.800 in Denver. Based off of what you just said, I'm 1147 00:54:25.800 --> 00:54:28.320 assuming you're going to take the Clips to win the series. 1148 00:54:28.360 --> 00:54:29.920 But what do you think happens tonight in Denver? 1149 00:54:31.440 --> 00:54:36.079 Well, I would take the Clippers to win the series, 1150 00:54:36.119 --> 00:54:38.159 and I would change my mind if they don't win tonight. 1151 00:54:38.159 --> 00:54:40.320 And how's that for a cop out of an answer? 1152 00:54:40.400 --> 00:54:41.039 Not fair enough? 1153 00:54:41.800 --> 00:54:43.880 You know, Listen, the Nuggets did lose the Game seven 1154 00:54:43.920 --> 00:54:47.480 on their own home court last season to the Wolves. 1155 00:54:48.800 --> 00:54:53.519 That's unlikely to happen again. However, you know, the Clippers 1156 00:54:53.599 --> 00:54:56.079 do have a deeper team, there's no question in that, 1157 00:54:56.280 --> 00:54:59.760 especially like the rough thing had gone off the rails. 1158 00:54:59.800 --> 00:55:03.960 Any ways, now he's dealing with this foot thing. But 1159 00:55:04.800 --> 00:55:07.840 you know, like Joker's got to play forty six to 1160 00:55:07.880 --> 00:55:10.320 forty eight minutes to night and he's just getting the 1161 00:55:10.360 --> 00:55:13.480 crap beat out of him. The longer the series goes, 1162 00:55:13.559 --> 00:55:16.599 I would say, the tougher it is to that guy. 1163 00:55:16.760 --> 00:55:18.800 And if he's not right, then the Knights don't have 1164 00:55:18.840 --> 00:55:19.280 a chance. 1165 00:55:19.679 --> 00:55:24.440 The potential of a second round series between the between 1166 00:55:24.480 --> 00:55:27.679 the Timberwolves and the Warriors, and like I said, until 1167 00:55:27.760 --> 00:55:30.039 Lebron and Luca are dead and done, I'm not going 1168 00:55:30.119 --> 00:55:33.480 to say that that series is over. But just like, okay, 1169 00:55:33.480 --> 00:55:36.760 see potentially Clippers second round Minnesota Golden State. And I 1170 00:55:36.760 --> 00:55:39.960 will give you credit because you actually pointed out Minnesota 1171 00:55:40.440 --> 00:55:42.880 starting to kind of figure some things out at the 1172 00:55:42.960 --> 00:55:45.079 end of the season when they finished really well. And 1173 00:55:45.480 --> 00:55:48.159 you know, it's been kind of interesting Tim because oftentimes 1174 00:55:48.199 --> 00:55:52.239 in this Minnesota Lakers series, Jazz fans know that when 1175 00:55:52.360 --> 00:55:55.920 JJ decides to go small, Minnesota has kind of leaned 1176 00:55:55.920 --> 00:55:57.800 into the whole, like we can sit go baar and 1177 00:55:57.840 --> 00:56:00.000 we feel comfortable doing that in the way that Quinn 1178 00:56:00.079 --> 00:56:03.119 ever did. Now, Quinn didn't have nas Reid, so it's different. Sure, 1179 00:56:03.199 --> 00:56:05.159 But the potential for that second round series, what do 1180 00:56:05.199 --> 00:56:06.039 you think that looks. 1181 00:56:05.800 --> 00:56:10.000 Like they're gonna be all of the series. And you know, 1182 00:56:11.280 --> 00:56:14.559 Ant won't be scared. I can tell you that he's 1183 00:56:14.599 --> 00:56:16.760 been the best player in this series, in the series 1184 00:56:16.800 --> 00:56:20.360 that that features Lebron and Luca, and has clearly been 1185 00:56:20.400 --> 00:56:23.639 the best player, But I think more important, or most important, 1186 00:56:24.159 --> 00:56:26.760 is the fact that he hasn't, you know, like the 1187 00:56:26.840 --> 00:56:29.239 last game it's going down the stretch, he didn't play 1188 00:56:29.280 --> 00:56:33.239 hero ball, which he's been guilty of really pretty much 1189 00:56:33.239 --> 00:56:35.639 all season long. He started to see that turn a 1190 00:56:35.639 --> 00:56:38.559 little bit down the stretch of the season, but some 1191 00:56:38.679 --> 00:56:41.119 of Ant's best plays didn't show up in the box score, 1192 00:56:41.480 --> 00:56:43.840 you know, but it's his willingness still Okay, you're gonna 1193 00:56:43.840 --> 00:56:45.559 throw to it me, let me get off the ball, 1194 00:56:45.639 --> 00:56:48.760 and you know, boom, boom boom. It's it's a wide 1195 00:56:48.760 --> 00:56:51.760 open shot for a guy like nas Reed. You know, 1196 00:56:51.840 --> 00:56:54.599 Jake McGann has been playing off pretty well, so I 1197 00:56:54.599 --> 00:56:57.360 think you know that like Ant's numbers in his production 1198 00:56:57.559 --> 00:57:01.280 obviously pops off the box score page, but I think 1199 00:57:01.320 --> 00:57:03.199 a lot of his growth is stuff that you don't 1200 00:57:03.280 --> 00:57:04.559 necessarily see in the numbers. 1201 00:57:05.000 --> 00:57:08.000 Do you leave any space for Golden State to make 1202 00:57:08.039 --> 00:57:12.039 this stuff interesting moving forward, something beyond winning this round 1203 00:57:12.119 --> 00:57:14.119 and maybe even beyond winning the next round. 1204 00:57:14.960 --> 00:57:17.159 I mean you have to leave space for it. They've got, 1205 00:57:17.800 --> 00:57:20.679 you know, dudes who have won four championships. You know, 1206 00:57:20.719 --> 00:57:23.960 they've they've been awfully good since they've made the trade 1207 00:57:23.960 --> 00:57:27.119 for Jimmy Butler, who's proven to be a phenomenal fit. 1208 00:57:27.199 --> 00:57:30.199 You know, Jimmy Butler has willed teams with a lot 1209 00:57:30.320 --> 00:57:35.239 less talent than this to the finals before. You know, like, 1210 00:57:35.599 --> 00:57:37.960 I'm not ever going to be a guy who doubts 1211 00:57:37.960 --> 00:57:42.119 Steph Curry. You know, Draymond's one of the great playoff 1212 00:57:42.760 --> 00:57:47.639 kind of complimentary stars, if that makes sense of this generation. 1213 00:57:47.760 --> 00:57:52.039 So yeah, you've absolutely got to leave space all. 1214 00:57:52.000 --> 00:57:53.159 Right before I set you loose. 1215 00:57:54.039 --> 00:57:56.280 You know, I'm gonna draw a little parallel here because 1216 00:57:56.320 --> 00:57:58.280 the big story out of the NFL draft is that 1217 00:57:58.360 --> 00:58:00.760 George Sanders fell to the fifth round, and the media 1218 00:58:00.840 --> 00:58:05.280 conversation surrounding the way that talent evaluators in the NFL 1219 00:58:05.519 --> 00:58:08.639 do their job juxtaposed to the way the media analyzes 1220 00:58:08.719 --> 00:58:12.400 prospects has been interesting. And in the NBA draft, I mean, 1221 00:58:12.440 --> 00:58:14.239 when it comes to the draft, all of us on 1222 00:58:14.280 --> 00:58:17.440 this side of the equation, you know, media members, you've 1223 00:58:17.440 --> 00:58:19.920 got to be careful about, you know, going with what 1224 00:58:19.960 --> 00:58:23.320 you're told from front offices because you're lied to and 1225 00:58:23.480 --> 00:58:26.239 smoke screens happen all the time. I wonder what your 1226 00:58:26.280 --> 00:58:28.840 experience has been like trying to cover the NBA Draft 1227 00:58:28.880 --> 00:58:32.239 getting information from front office people juxtaposed to the way 1228 00:58:32.239 --> 00:58:36.119 that the media analyzes prospects, and how sometimes those two 1229 00:58:36.159 --> 00:58:37.400 aren't even close to aligning. 1230 00:58:38.440 --> 00:58:40.880 Can I tell you a secret, go ahead, I don't 1231 00:58:40.880 --> 00:58:45.400 really cover the NBA draft. Oh okay, I mean seriously, 1232 00:58:45.440 --> 00:58:48.320 We've got you know, Jonathan Cavoni does that on a 1233 00:58:48.400 --> 00:58:52.639 full time basis, so does Jeremy Wu. The NBA draft 1234 00:58:52.760 --> 00:58:56.119 is just days after the finals. I'm not I don't like, 1235 00:58:56.239 --> 00:58:58.840 I don't pretend like I'm studying these guys. I don't 1236 00:58:58.880 --> 00:59:02.679 pretend like I'm doing a lot of intel. Once they're drafted, 1237 00:59:02.840 --> 00:59:07.760 that's when they've become my responsibility to cover. But I'm 1238 00:59:07.800 --> 00:59:10.599 fortunate to work in a place for ESPN where we've 1239 00:59:10.599 --> 00:59:12.960 got two guys who were great at that, who were 1240 00:59:13.199 --> 00:59:16.119 you know, have great eyes for talent, who also talked 1241 00:59:16.159 --> 00:59:18.679 to people year round, and these guys can tell you 1242 00:59:18.679 --> 00:59:22.000 who the best fifteen year old prospects and the Czech 1243 00:59:22.000 --> 00:59:27.320 Republic are right now. So yeah, just to be real, like, 1244 00:59:29.440 --> 00:59:31.119 I've got a lot of things that are on my plate, 1245 00:59:31.679 --> 00:59:35.000 the NBA Draft is not really one of them. 1246 00:59:35.320 --> 00:59:37.719 Fair enough, all right, buddy, thanks for the time. Enjoy 1247 00:59:37.760 --> 00:59:41.159 the game tonight with chat Zoom, Appreciate Your Brother and McMahon. 1248 00:59:41.280 --> 00:59:44.760 Fun Night of Basketball ahead and it starts in just 1249 00:59:44.760 --> 00:59:47.079 about thirty five minutes with the Bucks and the Pacers 1250 00:59:47.119 --> 00:59:50.840 on NBA TV. NBA TV and TNT have double headers 1251 00:59:50.880 --> 00:59:54.360 tonight Milwaukee, Indiana at four and then the Magic and 1252 00:59:54.400 --> 00:59:57.320 the Celtics at six thirty on NBA TV. Early game 1253 00:59:57.360 --> 01:00:01.079 on Turner is Piston's Knicks from MSG and then Big 1254 01:00:01.119 --> 01:00:03.280 One tonight. It should be a fun one. Clippers Nuggets 1255 01:00:03.280 --> 01:00:06.760 Ballerina in Denver, Colorado. All right, coming up on Friday. 1256 01:00:06.920 --> 01:00:08.679 I'm really excited for this. We're gonna be out in 1257 01:00:08.760 --> 01:00:10.800 about encourage you guys to come say hello. We'd love 1258 01:00:10.840 --> 01:00:12.599 to meet you and shake your hand. We're going to 1259 01:00:12.639 --> 01:00:15.559 be at the Former Legacy Center. It's a legacy fulfilled. 1260 01:00:15.559 --> 01:00:18.920 It's the grand opening of the Former Legacy Center. The 1261 01:00:18.960 --> 01:00:22.360 location is one h nine six zero South Park Road 1262 01:00:22.920 --> 01:00:24.920 in South Jordan, so Milestone. 1263 01:00:24.960 --> 01:00:26.880 That's forty years in the making and it's going to be. 1264 01:00:26.920 --> 01:00:30.400 Realized on Friday, May the second, as the Former Legacy 1265 01:00:30.440 --> 01:00:34.320 Center celebrates the official grand opening. It's a sixteen five 1266 01:00:34.400 --> 01:00:37.559 hundred square foot community sports and wellness complex. Inspired by 1267 01:00:37.679 --> 01:00:41.480 Utah's legendary boxing brothers Gene Fulmer, of course, Jay and Don, 1268 01:00:42.039 --> 01:00:45.199 and it's located in the South Jordan Sports Sports Complex, 1269 01:00:45.280 --> 01:00:48.760 minutes from the side of the current Former Brothers Boxing gym. 1270 01:00:48.800 --> 01:00:51.840 The new center honors the enduring former legacy while building 1271 01:00:51.840 --> 01:00:55.280 a dynamic future for youth and community wellness. The event 1272 01:00:55.360 --> 01:00:58.679 is going to run from eleven am to three pm 1273 01:00:58.719 --> 01:01:01.840 on Friday. Of course we'll be there until six. They're 1274 01:01:01.960 --> 01:01:04.280 offering tours of the facility. We're gonna have a ribbon 1275 01:01:04.320 --> 01:01:09.039 cutting ceremony and appearances by local leaders, dignitaries and sports personalities. 1276 01:01:09.559 --> 01:01:12.239 So again, the ribbon cutting ceremony starts at eleven, so 1277 01:01:12.320 --> 01:01:15.360 be out there at eleven o'clock on Friday at one 1278 01:01:15.360 --> 01:01:17.920 O nine six zero South Park Road in South Jordan. 1279 01:01:18.239 --> 01:01:20.280 The former Legacy Center will serve as a hub for 1280 01:01:20.320 --> 01:01:24.719 amateur boxing, youth mentorship, and community health programming, including fitness 1281 01:01:24.760 --> 01:01:28.480 boxing for women, seniors, and individuals living with Parkinson's. 1282 01:01:29.039 --> 01:01:30.480 The Former Brothers, known around the. 1283 01:01:30.440 --> 01:01:32.760 World for their success in professional boxing as well as 1284 01:01:32.760 --> 01:01:36.920 their humble grit, spent decades mentoring hundreds event at risk kids. 1285 01:01:36.920 --> 01:01:40.679 Retiring after they retired from professional boxing so come on out. 1286 01:01:40.760 --> 01:01:43.320 We'll be out there really excited for this. It is 1287 01:01:43.360 --> 01:01:45.920 one O nine six zero South Park Road in South 1288 01:01:46.000 --> 01:01:48.719 Jordan starting Friday at eleven. 1289 01:01:49.880 --> 01:01:51.519 To bring in Kaylin Jones. 1290 01:01:51.559 --> 01:01:54.639 Today Kaylen good friend of the show TALX and NFL 1291 01:01:54.639 --> 01:01:58.079 football some NFL Draft. Kaylen spent time with Sports Illustrated. 1292 01:01:58.119 --> 01:02:01.119 He was with the Ringer. He's landed with our friends 1293 01:02:01.159 --> 01:02:05.400 over at Netflix. Hey, Brett Farb documentary coming out on 1294 01:02:05.440 --> 01:02:07.159 Netflix over the next few weeks. 1295 01:02:07.199 --> 01:02:08.920 I think May the twentieth is that date. 1296 01:02:10.320 --> 01:02:14.159 Big day because we're giving away golf to Bonneville, my track, 1297 01:02:14.360 --> 01:02:17.000 my home track, Bonneville, great little munic course here in 1298 01:02:17.039 --> 01:02:20.360 Salt Lake. It's the ESPN Festival of the Teas powered 1299 01:02:20.400 --> 01:02:24.079 by the Utah Golf Association. Each day of spring, ESPN 1300 01:02:24.119 --> 01:02:26.840 seven hundreds is giving away rounds of golf from to 1301 01:02:26.920 --> 01:02:29.280 of the best courses in the state. Listening to The 1302 01:02:29.280 --> 01:02:31.679 Down and Dirty with Scott Mitchell from ten Excuse me 1303 01:02:31.760 --> 01:02:34.000 yeah from ten to eleven, the Sean O'Connell Show from 1304 01:02:34.039 --> 01:02:37.400 eleven to two. In this little radio program, The Drive 1305 01:02:37.440 --> 01:02:39.119 with Spence check Its from two to six for your 1306 01:02:39.199 --> 01:02:42.119 chance to win. Each day from ESPN seven hundred and 1307 01:02:42.199 --> 01:02:46.119 the Utah Golf Association. Details can be found at ESPN 1308 01:02:46.159 --> 01:02:49.960 seven hundred sports dot com. Yeah going to Bonnie today 1309 01:02:50.519 --> 01:02:53.400 text line eight seven seven three five three zero seven 1310 01:02:53.519 --> 01:02:56.159 hundred eighty seven seven three five three zero seven hundred. 1311 01:02:56.199 --> 01:03:01.360 Text in right now. Let's see what should we do today? 1312 01:03:01.400 --> 01:03:04.320 Text in right now? Just give me the one youth 1313 01:03:04.360 --> 01:03:06.880 that was drafted in the NFL draft. Easy one today, 1314 01:03:07.000 --> 01:03:09.159 because you know, we want to be kind and we 1315 01:03:09.159 --> 01:03:10.840 don't want to make you think too hard on the show. 1316 01:03:11.400 --> 01:03:13.800 First person to text in the lone ute drafted in 1317 01:03:13.840 --> 01:03:16.440 the NFL Draft, We'll go to Bonneville on us. It's 1318 01:03:16.480 --> 01:03:19.800 the ESPN Festival the Tease powered by the Utah Golf 1319 01:03:19.880 --> 01:03:23.400 Golf Association. ESPN seven hundred sports dot com is where 1320 01:03:23.400 --> 01:03:27.039 you go for more information. We also have a new 1321 01:03:27.079 --> 01:03:30.519 partner on the program, our friends at Outlaw Distilling, so 1322 01:03:30.559 --> 01:03:33.119 it's a new partner here on the ESPN Sports Network. 1323 01:03:33.239 --> 01:03:38.320 Outlaw Distillery is a homegrown grain to glass, nitty gritty whiskey, vodka, 1324 01:03:38.400 --> 01:03:43.440 rum and moonshine. Moonshine distillery right here in Salt Lake City. 1325 01:03:43.800 --> 01:03:47.719 Outlaw Distillery is Utah grown, of course, with so much 1326 01:03:47.760 --> 01:03:51.639 history here of cowboys, outlaws, mining, and more. Outlaw has 1327 01:03:51.679 --> 01:03:55.599 everything on the spirits spectrum, from their spice rum, vanilla 1328 01:03:55.639 --> 01:04:01.280 bean rum, Outlaw coffee, rum, honeybourbon, barrel proof whiskey, vodkin, moonshine, 1329 01:04:01.280 --> 01:04:04.199 the habit all. And they're embracing the Outlaw name by 1330 01:04:04.239 --> 01:04:07.280 being rebellious and making some very unique spirits that aren't 1331 01:04:07.280 --> 01:04:09.960 being seen or created by any other distilleries in Utah. 1332 01:04:10.360 --> 01:04:13.119 Passionate group happy to have them on board. If you 1333 01:04:13.159 --> 01:04:14.880 want to take a sip of their spirits, you can 1334 01:04:14.920 --> 01:04:17.840 either find their bottles in the local liquor stores or 1335 01:04:17.880 --> 01:04:20.599 you can book a tasting Tell them I sent you. 1336 01:04:21.239 --> 01:04:22.880 It's an hour and a half as far as their 1337 01:04:23.039 --> 01:04:25.199 tour goes, and you get to try it all, keeping 1338 01:04:25.320 --> 01:04:28.159 your shot glass as a souvenir. Get your tor and 1339 01:04:28.239 --> 01:04:31.880 tasting book at Outlaudistillery dot com today. Their doors open 1340 01:04:31.920 --> 01:04:34.599 in twenty fifteen. It's only the fourth distillery in the 1341 01:04:34.599 --> 01:04:38.159 Great State of Utah. So deeply rooted in Utah history 1342 01:04:38.199 --> 01:04:41.840 and tradition, even the name Outlaws inspired by legendary characters 1343 01:04:41.840 --> 01:04:45.079 such as Butch Cassidy born in Beaver, Utah, on the 1344 01:04:45.079 --> 01:04:48.880 Outlaw Trail, which served as primary transportation route for many 1345 01:04:48.880 --> 01:04:52.559 of the notorious wild West Outlaws. The vision for Outlaw 1346 01:04:52.559 --> 01:04:54.480 Distillery is clear helps show the world that some of 1347 01:04:54.559 --> 01:04:56.199 the best spirits can come from one of the least 1348 01:04:56.199 --> 01:04:59.519 expected places here in the state of Utah. I feel 1349 01:04:59.559 --> 01:05:01.920 like Outlaw Distillery is a place that you need to 1350 01:05:02.199 --> 01:05:02.519 check out. 1351 01:05:02.559 --> 01:05:04.280 It feels like it's right right in your wheelhouse. 1352 01:05:04.320 --> 01:05:09.480 It might be, it might be I'm dry at the moment. 1353 01:05:09.519 --> 01:05:13.159 I am at the moment proud of you. But I 1354 01:05:13.199 --> 01:05:17.280 am as much as anything, very very enthralled with the 1355 01:05:18.039 --> 01:05:21.760 wild West, the Outlaws. I may know and spend as 1356 01:05:21.800 --> 01:05:25.280 much time, not now but historically on that is. I 1357 01:05:25.320 --> 01:05:28.000 do like sports and whatnot. So yeah, it might be 1358 01:05:28.000 --> 01:05:28.519 done my own. 1359 01:05:28.559 --> 01:05:33.239 Maybe we could open like a sports themed wild West 1360 01:05:33.639 --> 01:05:34.639 joint of some sort. 1361 01:05:34.679 --> 01:05:36.000 Oh, there we go. I mean, I just do it. 1362 01:05:36.039 --> 01:05:38.079 We can just do a remote Outlaw. I'm an idea man, 1363 01:05:38.719 --> 01:05:39.159 you know this. 1364 01:05:39.400 --> 01:05:40.960 I'm just trying to think what that would look and 1365 01:05:41.000 --> 01:05:42.360 feel like, because you have to have more of a 1366 01:05:42.360 --> 01:05:45.159 hook than just like come watch sports and talk about cowboys. 1367 01:05:45.280 --> 01:05:49.199 Yeah it's fair, it's fair. Yeah, We'll just do a 1368 01:05:49.239 --> 01:05:54.159 remoted Outlaw. We'll invite everyone there and have some shots. 1369 01:05:53.760 --> 01:05:56.719 And towards and go from there. Well, let's chill with 1370 01:05:56.760 --> 01:05:59.159 the shots. I mean certainly from two at two o'clock. 1371 01:05:59.199 --> 01:06:00.960 If you're doing shots, you to have a conversation. 1372 01:06:01.719 --> 01:06:02.800 You referenced something. 1373 01:06:02.599 --> 01:06:06.800 When we were interviewing Kyle bonagera Abduall Carter, Yeah, goes 1374 01:06:06.840 --> 01:06:10.239 to the Giants at three. And certainly most of the 1375 01:06:10.360 --> 01:06:14.920 draft experts I've read believe and looked we should acknowledge 1376 01:06:14.920 --> 01:06:16.840 the Travis Hunter as unique as any prospect. 1377 01:06:16.840 --> 01:06:18.039 We've seen it quite some time. 1378 01:06:18.679 --> 01:06:20.639 But in ten years when we're talking about this draft, 1379 01:06:20.679 --> 01:06:22.440 do you think we're going to be talking about Abdual Carter. 1380 01:06:23.199 --> 01:06:24.719 I think so. Now I'm not saying you're not going 1381 01:06:24.760 --> 01:06:27.360 to be talking about Travis Hunter. I just think that 1382 01:06:27.440 --> 01:06:31.880 the surest thing as far as if you go into 1383 01:06:31.920 --> 01:06:34.480 an NFL draft and you have, you know, maybe your 1384 01:06:34.519 --> 01:06:38.719 highest floor, highest ceiling, and where you want that overlap 1385 01:06:38.760 --> 01:06:42.320 to be the smallest, it's Abduall Carter. I really do 1386 01:06:42.440 --> 01:06:46.760 think that he is. When you look at the prototype 1387 01:06:46.800 --> 01:06:52.519 that you want as a current NFL edge linebacker hybrid, right, 1388 01:06:52.719 --> 01:06:56.119 you look at Micah Parsons, you look at players like 1389 01:06:56.239 --> 01:07:00.199 Abdull Carter, yes, out of Penn State. So there's a 1390 01:07:00.280 --> 01:07:04.480 little you know, there's there's there's a little overlap there, 1391 01:07:04.599 --> 01:07:09.639 a little where you're trying to separate, you know, the 1392 01:07:09.960 --> 01:07:12.320 prospect from the fact that he's just a really good 1393 01:07:12.519 --> 01:07:15.199 linebacker out of Penn State. No, he is a lot 1394 01:07:15.280 --> 01:07:18.599 like Micah Parsons in the way that he can disrupt 1395 01:07:18.599 --> 01:07:21.320 a game. Watched him live at the at the Rose Bowl. 1396 01:07:21.360 --> 01:07:23.840 It's a guy who even back then against Utah was 1397 01:07:23.880 --> 01:07:25.760 getting a lot of reps, getting a lot of snaps. 1398 01:07:26.480 --> 01:07:28.800 I think was their starter even for that game. So 1399 01:07:30.679 --> 01:07:34.159 I look at him as the surest thing. And you know, 1400 01:07:34.280 --> 01:07:37.280 if Travis Hunter ends up being what some folks think 1401 01:07:37.320 --> 01:07:39.599 he is on both sides of the ball, then yeah, 1402 01:07:39.639 --> 01:07:41.800 that's that's probably the guy you look to in this class. 1403 01:07:41.840 --> 01:07:46.079 But I think that is a huge if. Now. 1404 01:07:46.599 --> 01:07:48.280 I think he's good, and I think he's going to 1405 01:07:48.280 --> 01:07:52.480 be productive, but I just I have questions on the 1406 01:07:52.519 --> 01:07:56.280 ability for a one hundred and sixty five pound five 1407 01:07:56.360 --> 01:08:01.519 ft ten corner two do those things on both ends 1408 01:08:01.519 --> 01:08:03.280 of the ball like he did at the college level. 1409 01:08:03.320 --> 01:08:04.960 I think he'll be productive. I think he'll be a 1410 01:08:05.000 --> 01:08:08.679 fine player, but to replicate what he did at Colorado. 1411 01:08:09.920 --> 01:08:10.719 I just don't see that. 1412 01:08:11.320 --> 01:08:14.320 Yeah, yeah, I mean, look, we'll see what Jacksonville does. 1413 01:08:14.360 --> 01:08:17.239 They need a ton of help. Every time Travis is 1414 01:08:17.279 --> 01:08:19.760 asked about what he wants to be in pro football, 1415 01:08:19.840 --> 01:08:22.159 he talks about his desire to play on both sides 1416 01:08:22.199 --> 01:08:23.720 of the ball. But you've got to have a coach 1417 01:08:23.800 --> 01:08:26.520 willing to do that. So we'll see what that looks like. 1418 01:08:27.199 --> 01:08:29.359 You know, I do find it interesting. We talked about 1419 01:08:29.359 --> 01:08:31.560 it at start of the show, and you know, I 1420 01:08:31.640 --> 01:08:34.319 was trying to get a little info from Tim McMahon, 1421 01:08:34.319 --> 01:08:38.039 who joined us last segment, about what it's like covering 1422 01:08:38.399 --> 01:08:41.600 the draft, covering the NFL draft, covering the NBA draft. 1423 01:08:42.159 --> 01:08:45.840 And you know, I'm not in the news breaker space 1424 01:08:45.960 --> 01:08:49.119 of this industry either, you know, a guy like Adam Schefter, 1425 01:08:49.239 --> 01:08:53.199 a guy like Sham Shararni, or you know, before he 1426 01:08:53.279 --> 01:08:56.079 decided to take his job as the GM, a Saint Bonovich, 1427 01:08:56.159 --> 01:08:59.800 or of course Adrian Moojanarowski. There was a time in 1428 01:08:59.800 --> 01:09:02.520 my career, maybe when I was younger, earlier on, I 1429 01:09:02.560 --> 01:09:05.039 did effort a lot of information and tried to break 1430 01:09:05.039 --> 01:09:07.199 things here there. It is kind of part of the 1431 01:09:07.279 --> 01:09:08.880 job to try to get some info and then of 1432 01:09:08.880 --> 01:09:12.039 course bring it to the listeners. It's an exhausting way 1433 01:09:12.239 --> 01:09:14.319 to try to do this, to try to do this job. 1434 01:09:14.359 --> 01:09:16.399 I can remember Chris Mannis who used to join us 1435 01:09:16.399 --> 01:09:20.159 pretty consistently for a few years. Before Chris landed at 1436 01:09:20.159 --> 01:09:24.000 Sports Illustrated, he was with Yahoo and he worked with 1437 01:09:24.119 --> 01:09:26.439 WOJ before woj went over to ESPN. 1438 01:09:27.079 --> 01:09:29.800 And when woj was kind of rising up through the ranks. 1439 01:09:29.479 --> 01:09:33.319 Everybody was just like enthralled with how he was able 1440 01:09:33.359 --> 01:09:35.720 to do what he was doing. And a lot of 1441 01:09:35.720 --> 01:09:40.359 it is through agency relationships. Because Adrian Wojnarowski I don't 1442 01:09:40.359 --> 01:09:42.239 think he is anymore because he's not in the space, 1443 01:09:42.279 --> 01:09:46.359 but he was represented by CIA, and CIA is the 1444 01:09:46.399 --> 01:09:50.199 most powerful agency really in all of entertainment, not just sports. 1445 01:09:50.920 --> 01:09:53.880 They have actors, they have musicians, and then they have 1446 01:09:53.920 --> 01:09:57.640 a lot of people that aren't necessarily front facing broadcasters, 1447 01:09:57.680 --> 01:10:01.279 certainly front facing for sure, behind the scenes people. And 1448 01:10:01.640 --> 01:10:04.199 as a result of those relationships, Woje met a lot 1449 01:10:04.239 --> 01:10:06.920 of other agents, not just the work for CAAA, but 1450 01:10:07.000 --> 01:10:10.159 work for other agencies, the Mark Bartelsteins of the World 1451 01:10:10.199 --> 01:10:12.800 and such. And I asked Mannix on the show, like 1452 01:10:13.760 --> 01:10:16.720 you work with Woj, what is his day to day 1453 01:10:16.880 --> 01:10:21.600 like like operationally, how did he go about his business? 1454 01:10:21.640 --> 01:10:25.079 And Chris told these wild anecdotes about Woj having multiple 1455 01:10:25.119 --> 01:10:28.119 cell phones and checking them all at once and then 1456 01:10:28.159 --> 01:10:30.199 having to be glued to those phones pretty much all 1457 01:10:30.279 --> 01:10:33.359 day and then glued to your socials pretty much all day. 1458 01:10:33.399 --> 01:10:35.840 So you can disseminate information when it comes your way. 1459 01:10:37.000 --> 01:10:40.079 And then the complicated part of it is trying to 1460 01:10:40.199 --> 01:10:44.039 dig through the noise and trying to disseminate the information 1461 01:10:44.479 --> 01:10:49.600 without furthering propaganda that clubs just want you to take 1462 01:10:49.640 --> 01:10:52.760 to the masses to further a message they're trying to 1463 01:10:52.760 --> 01:10:54.680 get out there, even if it's not true, and often 1464 01:10:54.760 --> 01:10:58.720 more often than not, actually it's not true. And certainly 1465 01:10:58.720 --> 01:11:01.079 in today's day and age of of media where so 1466 01:11:01.119 --> 01:11:05.199 many teams have in house media that work for the team, 1467 01:11:05.239 --> 01:11:07.279 and I use media in air quotes like the BYU 1468 01:11:07.319 --> 01:11:08.479 TV Guys or. 1469 01:11:08.760 --> 01:11:12.079 Any you know podcast that is team run. 1470 01:11:12.840 --> 01:11:16.479 That's not media, that's your propaganda message that the team 1471 01:11:16.520 --> 01:11:19.560 wants you to forward that oftentimes isn't true. You just 1472 01:11:19.600 --> 01:11:23.640 want the public to really buy into the message you're selling. 1473 01:11:24.560 --> 01:11:27.800 And again oftentimes it's BS and we talked about this 1474 01:11:27.960 --> 01:11:29.159 a lot on the show. 1475 01:11:28.920 --> 01:11:31.000 As the As the As the Public. 1476 01:11:31.039 --> 01:11:34.479 What exactly do you want, whether it's sports or politics 1477 01:11:34.560 --> 01:11:36.479 or whatever it is. Do you only want to reaffirm 1478 01:11:36.680 --> 01:11:39.479 your the beliefs that you already have, regardless of it's real, 1479 01:11:39.640 --> 01:11:43.359 regardless of its being propagated by charlatans that are looking 1480 01:11:43.359 --> 01:11:46.279 for engagement in order to make money, right, or if 1481 01:11:46.279 --> 01:11:48.239 it's just being propagated by a team that just want 1482 01:11:48.279 --> 01:11:50.279 you to believe their message. Even though it's pretty easy 1483 01:11:50.319 --> 01:11:52.600 to see oftentimes what's true and what is not true. 1484 01:11:53.239 --> 01:11:56.640 But you do have to learn to pay attention in 1485 01:11:56.680 --> 01:11:58.960 a different way. You do have to call balls and strikes, 1486 01:11:59.000 --> 01:12:00.439 you do have to call it like you see it. 1487 01:12:01.079 --> 01:12:03.800 And certainly a big part of media these days is 1488 01:12:03.880 --> 01:12:07.439 opinion driven, not truth driven, just opinions driven. And that's 1489 01:12:07.479 --> 01:12:10.439 what makes the NFL Draft really really interesting. And that's 1490 01:12:10.479 --> 01:12:13.600 what makes watching mel Kuiper melt down on television for 1491 01:12:13.640 --> 01:12:17.119 three days really interesting because it's hard to know whether 1492 01:12:17.199 --> 01:12:19.560 or not mel Kiper was married to his should or 1493 01:12:19.680 --> 01:12:22.399 Sanders take, or he was just trying to be part 1494 01:12:22.439 --> 01:12:25.920 of a TV show, which is what the NFL Draft is. 1495 01:12:25.960 --> 01:12:27.439 At the end of the day and say what you 1496 01:12:27.439 --> 01:12:30.479 want about Shoudor Sanders. He certainly is a story because 1497 01:12:30.479 --> 01:12:32.800 he's Dion's kid and there was so much attention around 1498 01:12:32.840 --> 01:12:35.199 Colorado football over the past couple of years, and also 1499 01:12:35.199 --> 01:12:37.439 should Or was really good. I think one of the 1500 01:12:37.439 --> 01:12:39.600 things lost in all this is that Shurear Sanders is. 1501 01:12:39.520 --> 01:12:40.840 Still a really good football player. 1502 01:12:41.960 --> 01:12:43.760 He just wasn't the number one overall pick, and he 1503 01:12:43.840 --> 01:12:46.840 wasn't a first round pick. He wasn't a first two 1504 01:12:46.880 --> 01:12:48.439 day pick. He had to wait till Day three in 1505 01:12:48.479 --> 01:12:52.000 the fifth round. But I don't know that there is 1506 01:12:52.039 --> 01:12:56.840 an event that brings more more of a dishonest approach 1507 01:12:57.760 --> 01:13:01.760 from both NFL talent evvaluators and media members then the 1508 01:13:01.880 --> 01:13:03.920 NFL Draft every year. 1509 01:13:04.479 --> 01:13:07.560 Yeah, and you can. You can pull up any mock 1510 01:13:07.640 --> 01:13:08.439 draft that you prefer. 1511 01:13:08.560 --> 01:13:10.920 Dan Brugler from the Athletic who joins us from time 1512 01:13:10.960 --> 01:13:12.479 to time Front of the Show, is really good at 1513 01:13:12.479 --> 01:13:15.239 his job. He had Shadora, I think, as the forty 1514 01:13:15.319 --> 01:13:17.359 third pick in his mock draft. So we didn't have 1515 01:13:17.439 --> 01:13:19.840 him at one, didn't have him as a top ten, 1516 01:13:19.920 --> 01:13:21.439 didn't have him as a first round pick, but he 1517 01:13:21.439 --> 01:13:23.680 had him at forty three and Dan's a really talented 1518 01:13:24.640 --> 01:13:26.560 you know, a media member who does a really good 1519 01:13:26.560 --> 01:13:29.760 mock draft and works really hard to get all that 1520 01:13:29.800 --> 01:13:32.760 information out there, and ultimately everybody's just guessing. 1521 01:13:32.840 --> 01:13:35.439 And it does bring this dynamic of. 1522 01:13:37.039 --> 01:13:42.279 Media members that have no business analyzing draft prospects but 1523 01:13:42.399 --> 01:13:46.119 understand how much you want that content. And so it 1524 01:13:46.119 --> 01:13:49.720 brings about this clickbait feel during this time of year 1525 01:13:50.119 --> 01:13:52.920 where people just love the NFL Draft and if you're 1526 01:13:52.920 --> 01:13:54.880 a college football fan, you want to know where the 1527 01:13:54.880 --> 01:13:57.159 players that you love for your alma mater are going 1528 01:13:57.239 --> 01:14:01.279 to go. And if you're an NFL fan, it is 1529 01:14:01.359 --> 01:14:03.760 like the one time of year where hope is out 1530 01:14:03.760 --> 01:14:06.199 there and what are the holes that the team has? 1531 01:14:06.239 --> 01:14:08.079 How many picks you have? How many holes can you 1532 01:14:08.079 --> 01:14:10.239 plug in the draft? Are you going to see a 1533 01:14:10.319 --> 01:14:12.800 draft night of tremendous activity and a lot of trades 1534 01:14:12.920 --> 01:14:16.920 is going to be quiet, Like people love the draft content, 1535 01:14:17.119 --> 01:14:19.920 and it'll be interesting to see the interest in the 1536 01:14:20.039 --> 01:14:22.399 NBA Draft coming up June twenty fifth, and we're going 1537 01:14:22.479 --> 01:14:24.840 to have great coverage for you guys that night. It's 1538 01:14:24.880 --> 01:14:27.199 going to be Gordy Chase, It's going to be Richard Smith. 1539 01:14:27.760 --> 01:14:29.960 Looks like we might be out on location. It is 1540 01:14:30.000 --> 01:14:32.479 a two day event. Round two will be the next day, 1541 01:14:32.479 --> 01:14:35.560 on June the twenty sixth, in the afternoon, So there's 1542 01:14:35.560 --> 01:14:37.039 a chance that we're just going to kind of lean 1543 01:14:37.079 --> 01:14:39.239 into that on our show the next day, maybe on location. 1544 01:14:39.319 --> 01:14:40.560 We'll keep you up to date on that. 1545 01:14:41.800 --> 01:14:43.800 But one of the things that I always find fascinating 1546 01:14:44.640 --> 01:14:46.279 and one of the ways I try to do this 1547 01:14:46.359 --> 01:14:48.199 show is I kind of have a unique prison because 1548 01:14:48.199 --> 01:14:51.359 I've been in front offices and I've had a chance 1549 01:14:51.399 --> 01:14:54.720 to do NBA scouting, and so I've been able to 1550 01:14:54.800 --> 01:14:57.000 work with and listen to and learn from some of 1551 01:14:57.039 --> 01:14:59.880 the best basketball minds that you're ever going to find, 1552 01:15:00.000 --> 01:15:01.720 you know, the Dick mcguires of the world for the 1553 01:15:01.760 --> 01:15:05.479 New York Knicks, and the Scottie Laden's and the Dennis Lindsay's, 1554 01:15:05.479 --> 01:15:08.520 the Arnie Grunfelds. He ed Tapscots and being in those 1555 01:15:08.640 --> 01:15:14.359 rooms and listening to the way that NBA evaluators evaluate 1556 01:15:14.439 --> 01:15:17.720 talents and then leaving those rooms and listening to media 1557 01:15:17.760 --> 01:15:20.479 members try to do the same job, or reading mock 1558 01:15:20.560 --> 01:15:26.000 drafts and knowing how wrong they are colors my perspective 1559 01:15:26.039 --> 01:15:27.760 in my prism as far as how I want to 1560 01:15:27.760 --> 01:15:31.239 cover these things, and ultimately it really leads me to 1561 01:15:31.279 --> 01:15:34.960 approach it differently because we're all just guessing, and not 1562 01:15:35.079 --> 01:15:37.239 many of us are willing to say that out loud 1563 01:15:37.239 --> 01:15:39.960 because we want to present ourselves as experts. We want 1564 01:15:40.000 --> 01:15:42.800 to convince you that our opinion is the same opinion 1565 01:15:42.840 --> 01:15:46.159 you should have, and we want to be right about 1566 01:15:46.159 --> 01:15:49.079 our talent evaluations, and certainly all of us in the 1567 01:15:49.079 --> 01:15:50.600 space enjoy being right. 1568 01:15:51.039 --> 01:15:54.640 And I've had prospects that I've analyzed where. 1569 01:15:54.479 --> 01:15:57.720 I've been completely correct, and I've had plenty of prospects 1570 01:15:57.720 --> 01:16:00.960 that I've analyzed that I've been completely incorrect about. I 1571 01:16:01.000 --> 01:16:02.920 was excited when the Jazz draft to Trey Burke, and 1572 01:16:02.920 --> 01:16:03.640 I was dead wrong. 1573 01:16:03.960 --> 01:16:04.159 Right. 1574 01:16:04.560 --> 01:16:08.079 We all have prospects that we've analyzed, and we've tried 1575 01:16:08.119 --> 01:16:11.520 to tried to figure out whether or not their skill 1576 01:16:11.600 --> 01:16:14.720 set will translate when they take the step up, which 1577 01:16:14.760 --> 01:16:17.359 is really hard to do because there's a human element 1578 01:16:17.399 --> 01:16:21.199 to this that oftentimes is ignored, and the human element 1579 01:16:21.279 --> 01:16:23.600 to the shad Or Sanders storyline, as we talked about 1580 01:16:23.640 --> 01:16:27.159 with Kyle Bonneger earlier, has been really fascinating for me 1581 01:16:27.239 --> 01:16:29.520 to kind of study and listen to other people talk 1582 01:16:29.560 --> 01:16:31.920 about and then after the fact, listen to those same 1583 01:16:31.960 --> 01:16:35.439 people try to muddy the waters and flood the zone 1584 01:16:35.439 --> 01:16:37.960 with misinformation and try to convince you that what they 1585 01:16:38.000 --> 01:16:40.279 told you last week wasn't really what they believed. It's 1586 01:16:40.319 --> 01:16:45.079 this entire ecosystem of liars and this entire ecosystem of 1587 01:16:45.119 --> 01:16:49.319 grifters that really just want your engagement. And it's just 1588 01:16:49.359 --> 01:16:52.359 so funny how the business has either evolved or devolved 1589 01:16:52.359 --> 01:16:53.560 simply has changed. 1590 01:16:53.279 --> 01:16:55.720 Or progressed, whatever your adjective is. 1591 01:16:56.720 --> 01:17:02.159 Where you have guys doing these credible victory laps about 1592 01:17:02.159 --> 01:17:05.399 the things they got right while ignoring the things that 1593 01:17:05.439 --> 01:17:07.479 they got wrong and never bringing them up again just 1594 01:17:07.479 --> 01:17:08.880 to paint themselves as experts. 1595 01:17:08.880 --> 01:17:11.239 And all these grifters on TV they do the same thing. 1596 01:17:12.039 --> 01:17:12.199 You know. 1597 01:17:12.239 --> 01:17:15.279 They want to lean into the draft projection that got right. 1598 01:17:16.079 --> 01:17:18.000 They want to focus on see I told you so 1599 01:17:18.079 --> 01:17:19.760 here there, and I'm sitting there like, wait a second, 1600 01:17:19.800 --> 01:17:21.640 I heard you last week talk about four or five 1601 01:17:21.680 --> 01:17:25.319 different things that weren't even close to being true. But 1602 01:17:25.439 --> 01:17:30.640 the difference in the gap between evaluators that work in 1603 01:17:30.680 --> 01:17:34.079 the pro leagues and the grifters that work in the 1604 01:17:34.159 --> 01:17:38.000 media has always been fascinating to me, and there are 1605 01:17:38.039 --> 01:17:40.399 examples across the board and both the NFL and and 1606 01:17:40.520 --> 01:17:44.760 the NBA, And I just think with this stuff, there 1607 01:17:44.840 --> 01:17:49.039 were so many football talent evaluators that just didn't think 1608 01:17:49.279 --> 01:17:52.479 Shador was the prospect that the Melkuipers of the world 1609 01:17:52.520 --> 01:17:54.800 thought that they were. And I'm not trying to run 1610 01:17:54.840 --> 01:17:56.479 down Mel Kuiper. I mean, he's been doing this for 1611 01:17:56.479 --> 01:17:59.079 forty two years. I think this was his forty second 1612 01:17:59.159 --> 01:18:01.680 draft if I read that correctly. And the dirty Little 1613 01:18:01.720 --> 01:18:06.720 Secret continues to be the powerful television executives that have 1614 01:18:06.880 --> 01:18:09.399 one motivation and one motivation only, and that is for 1615 01:18:09.479 --> 01:18:11.159 you to tune into their TV show. 1616 01:18:12.319 --> 01:18:13.720 They don't give a rip if. 1617 01:18:13.600 --> 01:18:17.399 Mel was right about his Shador Sanders' evaluation. 1618 01:18:17.680 --> 01:18:18.239 They don't. 1619 01:18:18.399 --> 01:18:20.479 All they care about is whether or not Mel Kiper, 1620 01:18:20.560 --> 01:18:23.760 the TV actor and character put on a good show 1621 01:18:23.800 --> 01:18:26.840 for you. And the thing is he kind of did right, 1622 01:18:26.960 --> 01:18:29.079 Like it was kind of fun watching him melt down 1623 01:18:29.520 --> 01:18:32.439 every time another prospect was taken, every time another quarterback 1624 01:18:32.520 --> 01:18:35.199 was taken, and it wasn't shauld or melt melted Down 1625 01:18:36.119 --> 01:18:39.039 clearly wrong about his analysis if you take it at 1626 01:18:39.039 --> 01:18:42.279 face value. But what was his motivation just to put 1627 01:18:42.279 --> 01:18:46.159 on a good TV show? Was he fooled based off 1628 01:18:46.199 --> 01:18:49.079 of his relationship with agents or maybe even Dion himself. 1629 01:18:49.119 --> 01:18:51.680 Did he buy into the hype in a way that 1630 01:18:51.960 --> 01:18:55.960 talent evaluators in the NFL just didn't and therefore brought 1631 01:18:56.000 --> 01:18:59.239 his approach on TV for you to be entertained. And 1632 01:18:59.279 --> 01:19:02.119 it's always fat for me to kind of experience this 1633 01:19:02.520 --> 01:19:05.520 just from the outside looking in, knowing the way talent 1634 01:19:05.600 --> 01:19:08.920 evaluation works in the pro leagues, and then understanding the 1635 01:19:08.960 --> 01:19:13.000 ecosystem of the media and how many dishonest people are 1636 01:19:13.039 --> 01:19:18.680 out there, some taking calculated guesses and some taking educated 1637 01:19:18.720 --> 01:19:21.479 guesses based off the work they do, but so many 1638 01:19:21.520 --> 01:19:24.520 of them getting it wrong. And Porter, I think you 1639 01:19:24.560 --> 01:19:28.560 talked about this yesterday when you know ultimately we may 1640 01:19:28.600 --> 01:19:31.079 be overthinking it. Is it fair to bring up the 1641 01:19:31.239 --> 01:19:36.520 lack of humility he appeared to exhibit during the interview process, probably, 1642 01:19:37.279 --> 01:19:40.800 And there are conversations about him sandbagging interviews the way 1643 01:19:40.800 --> 01:19:43.239 his dad used to, But that's such a false parallel 1644 01:19:43.239 --> 01:19:48.079 because Dion was generationally special as a talent, so he 1645 01:19:48.119 --> 01:19:50.239 could sandbag as much as he wanted. There are going 1646 01:19:50.319 --> 01:19:52.600 to be talent evaluators that said, Okay, maybe he's kind 1647 01:19:52.600 --> 01:19:54.600 of an ass, but we still want him because he's 1648 01:19:54.600 --> 01:19:57.520 that good. Schidora is not near the talent his dad was, 1649 01:19:58.439 --> 01:20:01.119 so if he followed the example of his father, I 1650 01:20:01.159 --> 01:20:03.359 think his dad did him a disservice. But this could 1651 01:20:03.359 --> 01:20:06.439 be as simple as football talent evaluators to work for teams, 1652 01:20:07.439 --> 01:20:09.479 taking emotion out of it and just saying we don't 1653 01:20:09.479 --> 01:20:10.199 think he's very good. 1654 01:20:10.359 --> 01:20:11.840 Yeah, and it was off air. 1655 01:20:11.880 --> 01:20:13.239 I think when I was talking to you and Smitty, 1656 01:20:13.319 --> 01:20:15.279 you kind of asked my thoughts on it, and I 1657 01:20:15.359 --> 01:20:18.199 just said, I think everyone is kind of making this 1658 01:20:18.279 --> 01:20:21.520 a bigger story than it is, partly by design, as 1659 01:20:21.560 --> 01:20:26.600 you mentioned, the ESPN stuff, the clicks that surround the 1660 01:20:26.640 --> 01:20:30.000 Sanders family, just in general, like you're going to play 1661 01:20:30.039 --> 01:20:33.920 into that. But ultimately, what I really thought happened over 1662 01:20:33.920 --> 01:20:36.479 the weekend, Spence was a mid round quarterback, got drafted 1663 01:20:36.640 --> 01:20:38.760 in the fifth round. I thought he could have been 1664 01:20:38.800 --> 01:20:42.119 a second, third, fourth round pick, but like I said yesterday, 1665 01:20:42.439 --> 01:20:44.800 that also kind of depends on how the draft goes. 1666 01:20:45.479 --> 01:20:48.279 Once all those offensive tackles started rolling off the board, 1667 01:20:49.079 --> 01:20:52.079 it doesn't matter what position you play. You understand that 1668 01:20:52.159 --> 01:20:54.479 there's going to be, especially if you understand how the 1669 01:20:54.600 --> 01:20:56.439 NFL draft works, there's going to be a run of 1670 01:20:56.439 --> 01:20:59.239 offensive tackles. If you're a defensive back, you just got 1671 01:20:59.319 --> 01:21:02.319 pushed down the line a little bit. Regardless of how 1672 01:21:02.840 --> 01:21:04.720 good you think you are where you sit in the 1673 01:21:05.039 --> 01:21:08.680 prospect room. Sometimes the NFL draft goes that way. Quinn 1674 01:21:08.680 --> 01:21:11.760 Ewers also dropped several rounds farther than a lot of 1675 01:21:11.760 --> 01:21:17.039 people thought he would be Dylan Gabriel. You know, these 1676 01:21:17.119 --> 01:21:21.079 guys are are one quarterback away. As far as where 1677 01:21:21.119 --> 01:21:23.399 Dillian Gabriel was picked and where Shador was picked, there 1678 01:21:23.399 --> 01:21:26.199 was no one in between from the quarterback position, even 1679 01:21:26.239 --> 01:21:29.119 though there was a full round of NFL Draft between them. 1680 01:21:29.479 --> 01:21:31.479 So you kind of have to look at how the 1681 01:21:31.600 --> 01:21:35.600 draft usually plays out from a positional standpoint. You have 1682 01:21:35.640 --> 01:21:39.039 to look at the fact that, yes, the majority of 1683 01:21:39.880 --> 01:21:44.079 like actual talent evaluators, not draft analysts, not NFL analysts 1684 01:21:44.119 --> 01:21:47.119 that are just draft analysts. During the week of the draft, 1685 01:21:47.199 --> 01:21:49.880 not and I love my guy Tony Jones, Tony thought 1686 01:21:49.880 --> 01:21:51.680 he that Shador was going to be the number one pick. 1687 01:21:52.119 --> 01:21:55.560 That's a basketball guy. Tony and mel Kiper might have 1688 01:21:55.600 --> 01:21:57.399 been the only guys that I saw that said he 1689 01:21:57.439 --> 01:21:59.239 would be the top pick in the draft. 1690 01:21:59.680 --> 01:22:01.960 And then you have what I. 1691 01:22:01.920 --> 01:22:06.960 Think is kind of the casual sports fan who then 1692 01:22:07.000 --> 01:22:09.199 tune in on draft. We can think, oh, should Or 1693 01:22:09.279 --> 01:22:11.560 is gonna be a top five pick, right, That's where 1694 01:22:11.600 --> 01:22:13.640 it all comes from, because I don't really think a 1695 01:22:13.680 --> 01:22:17.119 lot of the serious people around the draft really had 1696 01:22:17.159 --> 01:22:19.760 any expectation of that happening. Thought he might be a 1697 01:22:19.760 --> 01:22:25.199 second round pick, sneak into the first round maybe, but ultimately, yeah, 1698 01:22:25.239 --> 01:22:29.319 I think this is a story around the Sanders that 1699 01:22:29.479 --> 01:22:32.760 is getting way blown out of proportion because it's a 1700 01:22:32.800 --> 01:22:37.000 story around the Sanders, and because, as you mentioned, Shaudor 1701 01:22:37.159 --> 01:22:42.600 may have exacerbated and Dion may have exacerbated the slides 1702 01:22:42.720 --> 01:22:46.479 slide a little bit with how they handled NFL agents, 1703 01:22:46.640 --> 01:22:49.720 NFL scouts, guys in the front office that aren't necessarily 1704 01:22:49.840 --> 01:22:53.920 used to a player thinking he kind of runs the 1705 01:22:53.960 --> 01:22:58.439 show already, especially when he's not his father, who was 1706 01:22:58.479 --> 01:22:59.760 the best cornerback of all time. 1707 01:23:00.159 --> 01:23:01.840 Well, and also one more thing here. 1708 01:23:02.279 --> 01:23:05.319 One of the jobs you have when you're building a roster, 1709 01:23:06.319 --> 01:23:08.640 as a roster constructor in pro sports is you have 1710 01:23:08.680 --> 01:23:12.840 to mitigate risk and you have to, you know, mitigate distraction, 1711 01:23:13.199 --> 01:23:15.800 and you have to eliminate as much of that as 1712 01:23:15.840 --> 01:23:16.119 you can. 1713 01:23:16.199 --> 01:23:16.920 That's in your power. 1714 01:23:16.960 --> 01:23:18.640 A lot of it's not in your power, like the 1715 01:23:19.039 --> 01:23:21.840 one of the variables that you know, the Melkipers of 1716 01:23:21.840 --> 01:23:23.880 the world don't seem to discuss very much, and one 1717 01:23:23.880 --> 01:23:25.960 of the variables that makes all this stuff really hard 1718 01:23:26.000 --> 01:23:28.199 and very complicated. It's why the great scouts are worth 1719 01:23:28.199 --> 01:23:31.960 their weight in gold is you do not know how 1720 01:23:32.079 --> 01:23:36.119 an eighteen nineteen twenty like a young person between typically 1721 01:23:36.159 --> 01:23:37.880 between the ages of eighteen and twenty two. 1722 01:23:38.000 --> 01:23:39.239 Sometimes it's a little bit older. 1723 01:23:39.279 --> 01:23:42.159 With the new normal of college athletics, it will be 1724 01:23:42.279 --> 01:23:44.920 older oftentimes, you know, twenty three, twenty four to twenty five. 1725 01:23:44.960 --> 01:23:48.319 But the point still stands how a young person will 1726 01:23:48.359 --> 01:23:52.119 react to instantly becoming a millionaire, how a young person 1727 01:23:52.199 --> 01:23:55.760 will react to instantly becoming rich and famous. Now, a 1728 01:23:55.800 --> 01:23:59.960 lot of these young players now are receiving a tremendous 1729 01:24:00.000 --> 01:24:03.439 amount of wealth prior to entrance into the pros, and 1730 01:24:03.520 --> 01:24:06.359 I don't think we have enough data at our disposal 1731 01:24:06.479 --> 01:24:09.079 to indicate whether or not that allows them to land 1732 01:24:09.119 --> 01:24:11.520 a little softer with more maturity, because they actually already 1733 01:24:11.520 --> 01:24:13.840 have some money in their pocket and maybe simply just 1734 01:24:13.920 --> 01:24:16.920 aging a little bit is a good thing before they 1735 01:24:16.960 --> 01:24:20.640 actually are thrown into this world of tremendous wealth and 1736 01:24:20.640 --> 01:24:25.920 tremendous attention. But the highway is littered with the bodies, 1737 01:24:26.159 --> 01:24:30.279 not literally that's morbid, but of prospects that were highly 1738 01:24:30.279 --> 01:24:33.960 thought of simply as talent that could not handle the 1739 01:24:34.000 --> 01:24:36.640 sudden attention and did not know how to handle the 1740 01:24:36.680 --> 01:24:39.479 sudden wealth and did not have the right people around 1741 01:24:39.479 --> 01:24:41.720 them to help them traverse that space, and had too 1742 01:24:41.760 --> 01:24:45.000 many hangers on or add too many family members that 1743 01:24:45.119 --> 01:24:47.039 needed to get out of debt, or family members that 1744 01:24:47.119 --> 01:24:51.479 were using you and relying upon you as their golden 1745 01:24:51.479 --> 01:24:55.439 ticket to change their lives, which has always been extremely unfair. 1746 01:24:55.479 --> 01:24:58.640 It's why a good agent is worth his weight in gold. 1747 01:24:58.680 --> 01:25:02.079 And by the way, didn't have an agent, he hasn't 1748 01:25:02.119 --> 01:25:05.000 signed one. And yes, he has a father as a 1749 01:25:05.039 --> 01:25:07.399 mentor to kind of give him the answers to the test. 1750 01:25:07.399 --> 01:25:09.479 But guess what, the answers to the test this year 1751 01:25:09.720 --> 01:25:12.840 were wrong. I think he would have done himself a 1752 01:25:12.880 --> 01:25:16.439 great service if he had outside representation that could sit 1753 01:25:16.520 --> 01:25:18.279 him down and say, look, I don't give a rip 1754 01:25:18.359 --> 01:25:21.119 who your dad is. I don't give a rip about 1755 01:25:21.119 --> 01:25:24.239 the advantages you've had because of that. You are a 1756 01:25:24.399 --> 01:25:26.680 talent that has a chance to have a long career 1757 01:25:26.680 --> 01:25:30.279 in pro football. But if you want that, here's how 1758 01:25:30.319 --> 01:25:34.239 you have to approach this process. And advice from an 1759 01:25:34.279 --> 01:25:37.399 outside voice may have changed the entire thing. But it's 1760 01:25:37.439 --> 01:25:40.359 always interesting when a story like this manifest to listen 1761 01:25:40.479 --> 01:25:43.920 and read the reaction for media members that clearly are 1762 01:25:43.960 --> 01:25:47.000 embarrassed that they got it so wrong. When the talent 1763 01:25:47.000 --> 01:25:49.760 evaluators that actually work in the industry are the ones 1764 01:25:49.800 --> 01:25:51.319 that we need to listen to all the time, the 1765 01:25:51.319 --> 01:25:53.640 problem is we don't have as much access to them 1766 01:25:54.000 --> 01:25:56.520 as we do with the media members that want to 1767 01:25:56.640 --> 01:25:59.600 join shows and kind of spout off their opinion and 1768 01:25:59.640 --> 01:26:04.600 their takes in order for engagement. First game of four 1769 01:26:05.079 --> 01:26:09.199 for tonight's NBA Playoff action actually just barely tipped off. 1770 01:26:09.199 --> 01:26:12.079 It's the Bucks and the Pacers. Keep you up to 1771 01:26:12.159 --> 01:26:15.600 date on that as the show goes on. Get back 1772 01:26:15.600 --> 01:26:18.800 to some NFL Draft stuff. Sam Brouckcassuomer Sports joins us. 1773 01:26:18.840 --> 01:26:21.359 But a good friend of the show stops buying a 1774 01:26:21.399 --> 01:26:24.640 Tuesday and it's been way too long Kaylin Jones. 1775 01:26:24.720 --> 01:26:26.319 Happy Tuesday, buddy. How are we doing. 1776 01:26:28.600 --> 01:26:30.960 I'm hearing your voice, man. 1777 01:26:30.760 --> 01:26:32.960 Yeah great. Great to catch up with you as well. 1778 01:26:32.960 --> 01:26:35.560 And it seems like every time I chat with you, you 1779 01:26:35.520 --> 01:26:38.520 have taken another job and another really cool job as well. 1780 01:26:39.039 --> 01:26:41.319 So I need the career update, I need the life update. 1781 01:26:41.359 --> 01:26:42.319 What's going on with you now? 1782 01:26:44.199 --> 01:26:46.840 I mean, I'm very blessed. Man. You know, media is 1783 01:26:46.920 --> 01:26:51.039 not an eat the industry to hold steeple jobs as 1784 01:26:51.039 --> 01:26:55.359 a current throughout my career, but I'm currently an associate 1785 01:26:55.399 --> 01:27:00.640 producer for Netflix is Untold, the sports documentary series. It's 1786 01:27:00.680 --> 01:27:02.560 been about a year now. I've kept it low key 1787 01:27:02.640 --> 01:27:06.399 because there hasn't been too much to share. I'm excited 1788 01:27:06.439 --> 01:27:10.199 because the first round of episodes that was a part 1789 01:27:10.239 --> 01:27:13.159 of I really wasn't part of. I was just getting 1790 01:27:13.159 --> 01:27:16.159 an a with that person in the group who didn't 1791 01:27:16.159 --> 01:27:18.560 really do anything on the group assignment and got an 1792 01:27:18.600 --> 01:27:21.520 a on it. This time around had a little bit 1793 01:27:21.560 --> 01:27:23.199 more of a hand in it, and I'm excited for 1794 01:27:23.720 --> 01:27:26.800 our episode that's coming out called Shooting Guards about Gilbert 1795 01:27:26.840 --> 01:27:30.800 Arenas and Javaris Critteninson and in the lot of incident. 1796 01:27:30.960 --> 01:27:34.199 So we've got a couple more episodes coming up. It 1797 01:27:34.279 --> 01:27:35.000 takes a few years and. 1798 01:27:35.000 --> 01:27:35.720 Make these things. 1799 01:27:36.000 --> 01:27:38.479 I'm learning, but it's been a really fun experience so far, 1800 01:27:38.520 --> 01:27:41.560 transitioning over from journalism to the film space. 1801 01:27:42.439 --> 01:27:44.000 Very nice, very nice, Calen. 1802 01:27:44.039 --> 01:27:46.079 We are losing you a little bit on the cell phone, 1803 01:27:46.159 --> 01:27:48.119 so I'm gonna reset quite a little bit of a 1804 01:27:48.159 --> 01:27:50.039 long question. I'm gonna ask you just move around a 1805 01:27:50.079 --> 01:27:51.760 little bit, see if we can get a better connection. 1806 01:27:51.920 --> 01:27:54.479 So Cayln Jones is our guest. He's been a friend 1807 01:27:54.479 --> 01:27:56.640 of the show for five six years. He was with 1808 01:27:56.720 --> 01:27:59.479 The Ringer, he was with Sports Illustrated, with the Athletic 1809 01:27:59.600 --> 01:28:03.039 is now landed over with our friends in Netflix. So 1810 01:28:03.520 --> 01:28:07.600 what has been so this this uh, this Gilbert Arenas 1811 01:28:07.640 --> 01:28:09.479 doctor you have coming up? I wonder what has been 1812 01:28:09.520 --> 01:28:12.000 this process? What what the process has been like for you? 1813 01:28:12.119 --> 01:28:16.359 I mean, I certainly will never forget this story. I 1814 01:28:16.399 --> 01:28:20.640 am beyond excited to watch this and as a lifelong 1815 01:28:21.159 --> 01:28:23.960 quite frankly, being around the NBA my entire life, somebody 1816 01:28:24.000 --> 01:28:25.600 who's worked in it and has covered it for quite 1817 01:28:25.600 --> 01:28:27.960 some time. Of course, I can remember Gilbert Arenas as 1818 01:28:28.000 --> 01:28:31.600 a great college player and a very very talented pro 1819 01:28:32.159 --> 01:28:36.239 and I completely remember when this news certainly came down 1820 01:28:36.319 --> 01:28:38.880 in the fallout for both Gilbert and Javaris Crittin and 1821 01:28:39.159 --> 01:28:41.760 what's what's what's the process been like for you guys 1822 01:28:41.800 --> 01:28:42.319 to make this. 1823 01:28:44.399 --> 01:28:47.600 So when I joined about a year ago, the process 1824 01:28:47.800 --> 01:28:52.000 it already started conducting interviews with Rena and Baris Criton, 1825 01:28:52.600 --> 01:28:54.600 uh both you know, people close to the both of 1826 01:28:54.640 --> 01:28:59.239 them former teammates, so to witness the whole incident go down. 1827 01:29:00.239 --> 01:29:03.800 And then obviously the police departments from Atlanta who with 1828 01:29:04.039 --> 01:29:06.399 kind of the fallout as far as Varis Critins inside 1829 01:29:06.399 --> 01:29:11.239 of everything. But when I joined the processes, you know, 1830 01:29:11.279 --> 01:29:13.840 you have the editor or a couple of editors who 1831 01:29:13.920 --> 01:29:17.079 are in a base and after you're basically trying to 1832 01:29:17.079 --> 01:29:20.560 help them, you know, nurture the story along. You send 1833 01:29:20.560 --> 01:29:23.479 a few cuts to the big folks at Netflix, they 1834 01:29:23.479 --> 01:29:26.800 send some notes back. You probably do that five or 1835 01:29:26.840 --> 01:29:29.840 six signs before you get a final cut and line 1836 01:29:30.439 --> 01:29:33.760 that process six about a year. It's been really fascinating. 1837 01:29:33.760 --> 01:29:36.119 But you know, it's really cool, Spence, because you know 1838 01:29:36.119 --> 01:29:39.760 how it is with media scrums and most interview sessions, 1839 01:29:39.760 --> 01:29:41.720 you know they're they're five ten minutes and you're sticking 1840 01:29:41.720 --> 01:29:44.199 a microphone in an athlete space after, you know, a 1841 01:29:44.239 --> 01:29:46.840 huge moment. With documentaries, we get the luxury of sitting 1842 01:29:46.880 --> 01:29:50.680 with subjects for hours and so being able to get 1843 01:29:50.720 --> 01:29:55.680 fuller context and provide that on a platform like Netflix 1844 01:29:55.760 --> 01:29:57.079 is really special to be a part of. 1845 01:29:57.600 --> 01:30:00.119 All Right, for our listeners that are going, who are 1846 01:30:00.159 --> 01:30:03.439 Gilbert Arenas and Javar's krittenan? Because it is sixteen years ago, 1847 01:30:05.000 --> 01:30:07.840 let's revisit it, Kalin, So tell our listeners what went 1848 01:30:07.960 --> 01:30:10.560 down Christmas Eve two thousand and nine. 1849 01:30:11.680 --> 01:30:16.039 Yeah, So, Gilbert Arenas, as you were talking about's talented 1850 01:30:16.279 --> 01:30:21.199 NBA player, multi time All Stars for the Washington Wizards. 1851 01:30:21.960 --> 01:30:24.239 He and Javaris Critinton, who was a backup point guard 1852 01:30:24.319 --> 01:30:27.600 on the team, young in his career, had been drafted 1853 01:30:27.600 --> 01:30:29.439 by the Lakers, trying to kind of you know, trying 1854 01:30:29.439 --> 01:30:34.439 to save his career. They during a slight home the 1855 01:30:34.479 --> 01:30:36.439 two of them got, you know, they were playing cards 1856 01:30:36.439 --> 01:30:40.439 on the plane over. You know, there was a debate 1857 01:30:40.479 --> 01:30:45.960 over who owed who money, and between Gilbert and Javaris 1858 01:30:46.760 --> 01:30:51.560 it became sort of an emotional showing of manhood and 1859 01:30:51.640 --> 01:30:53.760 challenging one another, you know how it is with your friends. 1860 01:30:53.760 --> 01:30:56.159 Sometimes sometimes we have friends who take things a little 1861 01:30:56.159 --> 01:30:59.520 bit too far. And while they're on there talking about 1862 01:30:59.600 --> 01:31:01.920 bringing guns to each other, you know, bringing guns to 1863 01:31:02.000 --> 01:31:06.000 the locker room, and Javars and Gilbert both ended up 1864 01:31:06.039 --> 01:31:08.880 following through. Uh, they ended up pulling out guns on 1865 01:31:08.920 --> 01:31:18.079 each other. And hello, can you hear me? 1866 01:31:18.560 --> 01:31:21.039 Yeah, you're you're, you're you're breaking up pretty fierce. Is 1867 01:31:21.079 --> 01:31:22.439 there is there any way we can get you to 1868 01:31:22.600 --> 01:31:25.720 relocate or do you? Porter can porter, Porter can call 1869 01:31:25.760 --> 01:31:27.079 you back if you want, if you want to take 1870 01:31:27.119 --> 01:31:28.399 a second, we can reconnect with you. 1871 01:31:29.319 --> 01:31:31.720 Ah, man, I'm sorry, man, I'm trying to figure out 1872 01:31:31.760 --> 01:31:35.159 a better spot in the hotel to the uh speak 1873 01:31:35.199 --> 01:31:37.600 to your prom im in Atlanta. Actually, we're doing some 1874 01:31:37.640 --> 01:31:38.880 interviews for another episode. 1875 01:31:38.960 --> 01:31:40.920 You sound really good right now, wherever you're at, just 1876 01:31:40.960 --> 01:31:43.359 stay right there, okay. 1877 01:31:44.119 --> 01:31:46.560 Perfect, But yeah, the two of them got into a 1878 01:31:46.840 --> 01:31:50.279 incident showing a manhood calling each other out on the plane. 1879 01:31:51.359 --> 01:31:53.880 Both threatened to bring guns into the locker room, and 1880 01:31:53.920 --> 01:31:56.199 I think, you know, uh, we all have friends who 1881 01:31:56.279 --> 01:31:58.319 take things probably a little bit too far, a little 1882 01:31:58.319 --> 01:32:01.840 bit too literally. And of fortunately, yeah, they they brought 1883 01:32:01.840 --> 01:32:05.119 guns in the locker room and both were suspended given 1884 01:32:05.119 --> 01:32:08.760 two of the late suspensions in NBA history, essentially ended 1885 01:32:08.840 --> 01:32:14.000 Javaris Crittinson's career and Gilbert Reer ever really recovered after that, 1886 01:32:14.239 --> 01:32:17.520 and so what we do is really examine the fallout 1887 01:32:17.520 --> 01:32:20.760 of it. It's really tragic, honestly, like what ends the 1888 01:32:20.800 --> 01:32:23.800 pappening in Javar's side of things, and he kind of 1889 01:32:23.880 --> 01:32:27.840 probably aware of Gilbert Arenas's son, Elijah Arenas, one of 1890 01:32:27.880 --> 01:32:33.600 the top prospects in college basketball. He just recently, you know, 1891 01:32:33.960 --> 01:32:37.119 luckily survived, but there was a car accident out in 1892 01:32:37.319 --> 01:32:40.359 la where he was trapped in a cyber truck and 1893 01:32:40.479 --> 01:32:42.760 was able to luckily get out. He wasn't put into 1894 01:32:42.800 --> 01:32:46.000 an his come up, but he's awake now. And Yeah, 1895 01:32:46.000 --> 01:32:50.560 we examined their relationship, Javar's fallout. It's a really compelling 1896 01:32:50.600 --> 01:32:53.359 episode in one of the best untolds I think will 1897 01:32:53.479 --> 01:32:54.199 ever come out. 1898 01:32:54.560 --> 01:32:57.399 Yeah, I'm excited for what is the nature now for 1899 01:32:57.479 --> 01:32:59.720 our listeners that don't know Javaris critten In a few 1900 01:32:59.760 --> 01:33:04.039 years later was charged with the murder of Julian Jones, 1901 01:33:04.199 --> 01:33:07.520 twenty two year old mother of four. He pled guilty 1902 01:33:07.560 --> 01:33:10.960 to manslaughter. He was sentenced to twenty three years in prison. 1903 01:33:11.560 --> 01:33:14.319 It was later reduced to ten years and he was 1904 01:33:14.359 --> 01:33:18.239 released from prison last year. So, you know, of course, 1905 01:33:19.039 --> 01:33:21.399 a very sad story for a number of different reasons. 1906 01:33:21.960 --> 01:33:25.960 What was the effect of the incident, not the murder 1907 01:33:26.000 --> 01:33:29.920 the Javaris committed, but the incident between Javaris and Gilbert 1908 01:33:30.079 --> 01:33:32.760 and the gun incident, What was the effect that that 1909 01:33:32.960 --> 01:33:35.199 had on their relationship and what is the nature of 1910 01:33:35.239 --> 01:33:36.439 their relationship today? 1911 01:33:38.720 --> 01:33:44.319 Really did sort of pedo things right. Javaris was, you know, 1912 01:33:44.399 --> 01:33:48.600 personally upset at Gilbert because after the incident happened, after 1913 01:33:48.640 --> 01:33:52.520 the NBA handed out or at least threatened to hand 1914 01:33:52.560 --> 01:33:56.119 out the suspensions, Gilbert Renus was. There's a famous picture 1915 01:33:56.359 --> 01:33:58.640 or infamous picture of him, you know, in the huddle, 1916 01:33:58.840 --> 01:34:03.239 the team huddle and finger guns at everybody, and you know, 1917 01:34:03.319 --> 01:34:05.600 Javaris saw it as you know, Gilbert playing around and 1918 01:34:05.640 --> 01:34:09.479 not taking things seriously. You know, their their relationship, It 1919 01:34:09.560 --> 01:34:13.960 took a few years for them the sort of men things. 1920 01:34:14.199 --> 01:34:17.960 After Javaris had gotten out, they are now I wouldn't 1921 01:34:17.960 --> 01:34:21.159 say close, but you know they're they're acquaintances, cordial, however 1922 01:34:21.159 --> 01:34:22.960 you want to put it. They're on good terms at 1923 01:34:22.960 --> 01:34:24.880 this point. I know that Javaris has been on Gilbert 1924 01:34:24.880 --> 01:34:28.119 Arenas's podcast a couple of times at this point to 1925 01:34:28.159 --> 01:34:30.640 discuss everything and kind of you know, air everything out. 1926 01:34:30.760 --> 01:34:34.680 But yeah, it's it's in a much better spot today. 1927 01:34:34.720 --> 01:34:37.319 And as you mentioned, you know, obviously there's a seriously tragic, 1928 01:34:37.760 --> 01:34:40.399 uh you know, portion of the story that you know, 1929 01:34:40.479 --> 01:34:43.039 we we do a really good job of getting into. 1930 01:34:44.640 --> 01:34:47.239 But it's it's a really fascinating story. Like I said, 1931 01:34:47.279 --> 01:34:49.560 I think it's gonna be one of the best sports 1932 01:34:49.560 --> 01:34:51.000 documentaries that comes out this year. 1933 01:34:51.479 --> 01:34:54.439 As far as you know, we referenced the player that 1934 01:34:54.520 --> 01:34:59.079 Gilbert was, and you know, he ultimately when you look 1935 01:34:59.079 --> 01:35:01.680 at from a Macros standpoint, because he was not super 1936 01:35:01.760 --> 01:35:04.680 highly thought of as an NBA prospect coming out of college, 1937 01:35:05.439 --> 01:35:07.640 I don't think you can he was a second round pick. 1938 01:35:07.720 --> 01:35:09.880 I don't think he can really analyze his career as 1939 01:35:09.920 --> 01:35:13.399 anything other than a massive success based off of expectations. 1940 01:35:13.439 --> 01:35:17.199 But from a Gilbert Arenas angle specifically, how did that 1941 01:35:17.439 --> 01:35:20.640 incident kind of change the trajectory of his NBA career. 1942 01:35:22.039 --> 01:35:24.119 Yeah, like I said, you know, things kind of filled 1943 01:35:24.159 --> 01:35:27.279 with out for him afterwards. He wasn't able to return 1944 01:35:27.960 --> 01:35:31.399 to being you know, the superstar. He wasn't the face 1945 01:35:31.439 --> 01:35:33.319 of the league. He was literally on the cover of 1946 01:35:33.439 --> 01:35:35.960 NBA Live in two thousand and eight. I still I'm 1947 01:35:36.000 --> 01:35:39.319 pretty sure I had that game. He was one of 1948 01:35:39.359 --> 01:35:42.159 the faces of the league. And after that incident, the 1949 01:35:42.279 --> 01:35:44.920 NBA did it. You know, it did its job to 1950 01:35:44.960 --> 01:35:47.960 protect its brand and made sure that you know, he 1951 01:35:48.079 --> 01:35:52.000 wasn't necessarily considered a face. For Gilbert, his career tailed off. 1952 01:35:52.000 --> 01:35:55.159 He ended up playing Memphis Orlando. He was never really 1953 01:35:55.199 --> 01:35:58.560 the same player, and so for him personally though, I 1954 01:35:58.600 --> 01:36:00.680 think that and he talked about it in our episode, 1955 01:36:00.680 --> 01:36:04.840 it's you know, played a role in him evolving and 1956 01:36:04.880 --> 01:36:08.399 maturing as a man, specifically as a father. He's much 1957 01:36:08.439 --> 01:36:12.960 more involved in Elijah Arenas's life. Gilbert, like I said, 1958 01:36:13.000 --> 01:36:16.119 he's someone who's a goopall didn't take things seriously. That 1959 01:36:16.159 --> 01:36:19.000 incident helped change him to being a little bit more 1960 01:36:19.000 --> 01:36:21.680 mature and taking things a little bit more seriously. And 1961 01:36:22.520 --> 01:36:25.520 like I said, he's ensuring that his son isn't on 1962 01:36:25.760 --> 01:36:28.439 a similar path to not taking things serious. And I 1963 01:36:28.439 --> 01:36:30.600 think that's the reason why he ended up not going 1964 01:36:30.960 --> 01:36:32.680 in the first round during the draft and why he 1965 01:36:32.800 --> 01:36:36.279 wasn't considered as highly a prospect because he was so talented, 1966 01:36:36.319 --> 01:36:39.439 but he didn't have maybe necessarily the work at elite 1967 01:36:39.520 --> 01:36:42.319 work ethic. Obviously every athlete has work ethic, the elite 1968 01:36:42.439 --> 01:36:45.279 work ethic to keep him consistently at an all star 1969 01:36:45.439 --> 01:36:49.520 caliber level. So I think it changed him for the better. Obviously, 1970 01:36:49.960 --> 01:36:53.600 it's unfortunate that it took that incident, but you know, 1971 01:36:53.680 --> 01:36:56.159 for his personal life, and we see him now obviously 1972 01:36:56.319 --> 01:36:58.960 with the podcast. He's still a jokester, but there is 1973 01:36:59.479 --> 01:37:02.439 a little bit more maturity that comes with the experienced 1974 01:37:02.439 --> 01:37:04.640 seasons he's had, you. 1975 01:37:04.600 --> 01:37:07.840 Know, uh, in in both pro sports and if for honest, 1976 01:37:07.920 --> 01:37:10.520 in society, the topic of gun control is one that 1977 01:37:10.600 --> 01:37:13.760 comes up often and people feel very passionate about it, 1978 01:37:13.840 --> 01:37:17.000 both on both sides of the aisle wherever you stand. 1979 01:37:17.479 --> 01:37:19.880 Uh And of course when it comes to the NBA 1980 01:37:20.000 --> 01:37:23.119 or the NFL. You know, oftentimes when a player is 1981 01:37:23.199 --> 01:37:26.079 caught with a firearm without a license, or you know, 1982 01:37:26.600 --> 01:37:29.000 they're pulled over and there's a firearm in the car, 1983 01:37:29.640 --> 01:37:32.359 the leagues come under a tremendous scrutiny to serve as 1984 01:37:32.359 --> 01:37:34.119 an example for everybody else. 1985 01:37:35.079 --> 01:37:36.920 How did this incident, if. 1986 01:37:36.840 --> 01:37:40.359 At all, kind of change the perspective or paradigm of 1987 01:37:40.439 --> 01:37:42.720 pro basketball in the way that they view and handle 1988 01:37:42.760 --> 01:37:43.720 gun control issues. 1989 01:37:44.880 --> 01:37:48.720 Well, the reason why the penalty was so severe the 1990 01:37:48.720 --> 01:37:51.239 suspension was for the rest of the season. I'm blanking 1991 01:37:51.279 --> 01:37:52.840 on which season that was. It might have been two 1992 01:37:53.039 --> 01:37:56.560 and two thousand and nine, but both of them ended 1993 01:37:56.640 --> 01:37:59.960 up being suspended for the entire season, and poor Javares Crittin, 1994 01:38:00.079 --> 01:38:03.600 and I mean he was essentially blackballed from returning to 1995 01:38:03.680 --> 01:38:08.399 the NBA. And then I think the severity with which 1996 01:38:08.439 --> 01:38:11.359 the NBA came down was to ensure that, you know, 1997 01:38:11.399 --> 01:38:15.479 the league itself has had to overcome different types of stigmas, 1998 01:38:15.560 --> 01:38:19.640 right like before the Magic Johnson Larry bird eras you 1999 01:38:19.720 --> 01:38:23.840 obviously the league had a crack cocaine issue with its 2000 01:38:23.920 --> 01:38:27.399 players and so being able to rescue the league. It's 2001 01:38:27.880 --> 01:38:31.039 with the bird Magic area and Michael Jordan, you know 2002 01:38:31.159 --> 01:38:34.159 all that the league was nervous about that NINGU raced 2003 01:38:34.239 --> 01:38:37.039 when the early two thousands, late nineteen nineties, you had 2004 01:38:37.279 --> 01:38:40.359 players who the league had the recond with hip hop 2005 01:38:40.359 --> 01:38:44.600 culture coming to the surface and players expecting themselves that way. 2006 01:38:44.720 --> 01:38:50.039 So you had different points throughout the league's league history 2007 01:38:50.079 --> 01:38:53.960 where it's had the grapple with perception outside of perception, 2008 01:38:54.520 --> 01:38:59.000 which ultimately affects its you know, final dollar. With that incident, 2009 01:38:59.039 --> 01:39:03.479 I think they made sure very very strongly that you know, 2010 01:39:03.520 --> 01:39:08.960 it would not tolerate you know, gun gunplay literally within 2011 01:39:09.000 --> 01:39:13.479 the flocker room, and so the penalties were super severe, 2012 01:39:14.359 --> 01:39:18.159 and I think that, you know, how the league handled 2013 01:39:18.159 --> 01:39:22.000 it super fascinating for Gilbert. I guess I'm telling the 2014 01:39:22.119 --> 01:39:25.039 untold part of it here, but Gilbert explained that the 2015 01:39:25.159 --> 01:39:28.800 League really came down fiercely upon him because he was 2016 01:39:28.840 --> 01:39:33.720 trafficking guns essentially using private planes that the NBA was providing, 2017 01:39:34.000 --> 01:39:36.840 because he had guns in Phoenix and he would bring 2018 01:39:36.880 --> 01:39:41.399 them over to Washington, d C. So using the NBA's 2019 01:39:41.439 --> 01:39:46.039 private planes, so they He believes that the reason why 2020 01:39:46.039 --> 01:39:48.880 the penalty was so severe is because the NBA didn't 2021 01:39:48.880 --> 01:39:49.439 want that to be. 2022 01:39:49.479 --> 01:39:52.560 Non When is this coming out? I'm telling you, I 2023 01:39:52.560 --> 01:39:54.600 am giddy with excitement. This is gonna be awesome. 2024 01:39:55.760 --> 01:39:57.840 It's coming out on May six, Okay. 2025 01:39:58.039 --> 01:39:59.399 Oh nice, right around the corner. 2026 01:39:59.439 --> 01:40:01.479 So you rep, there are some other un and we've 2027 01:40:01.479 --> 01:40:04.039 had Tony Vai Nuku on the program a couple of times. 2028 01:40:04.119 --> 01:40:08.159 He's a Utah filmmaker who worked on the Manti Teo documentary. 2029 01:40:08.199 --> 01:40:10.600 I'm told what what are what are the other projects 2030 01:40:10.720 --> 01:40:11.279 you have coming up? 2031 01:40:11.319 --> 01:40:11.520 Kal? 2032 01:40:12.920 --> 01:40:17.520 Yeah, so until that's two more episodes. The episodes that 2033 01:40:17.520 --> 01:40:20.520 are coming out are based on the social media guy 2034 01:40:20.600 --> 01:40:23.319 named Liver king uh and then also there's an episode 2035 01:40:23.319 --> 01:40:28.159 coming out about Brett Farv. Neither of those episodes, I guess, 2036 01:40:28.199 --> 01:40:30.720 like the Hollywood of it, those weren't done by our 2037 01:40:30.760 --> 01:40:34.039 production houses, the production house that I work with. We 2038 01:40:34.159 --> 01:40:36.359 have a few more episodes coming out in the pipe 2039 01:40:36.399 --> 01:40:40.920 that regard the NBA, regard Major League Baseball, and the NFL, 2040 01:40:41.079 --> 01:40:43.199 And unfortunately I want to protect my job, so I 2041 01:40:43.199 --> 01:40:46.479 can't say what it is yet, but I think that 2042 01:40:46.680 --> 01:40:50.279 they will also be some compelling stuff. So I'm really 2043 01:40:50.279 --> 01:40:52.560 excited about what we're working on, even what I'm here 2044 01:40:52.560 --> 01:40:53.880 in Atlanta working on right now. 2045 01:40:54.840 --> 01:40:57.800 Yeah, I've I've loved all of them. I mean, Malice 2046 01:40:57.840 --> 01:40:59.920 in the Palace that was the first one I saw. 2047 01:41:00.640 --> 01:41:03.399 Let's see were the other ones we have. I've referenced 2048 01:41:03.399 --> 01:41:05.680 the Girlfriend who Didn't exist, Anti Taya, and a lot 2049 01:41:05.760 --> 01:41:08.479 of local ties here, the rise and fall of Van One, 2050 01:41:08.800 --> 01:41:11.239 I mean I loved and one back in the day, 2051 01:41:11.319 --> 01:41:14.199 I thought it was great. Uh, there's a ton of 2052 01:41:14.279 --> 01:41:17.199 great ones. The one on Manzell was really good. I 2053 01:41:17.279 --> 01:41:20.520 recently saw the one on Steve McNair, So what a 2054 01:41:20.600 --> 01:41:23.840 cool Uh, what a cool series. Fore you'd be involved in, man, 2055 01:41:23.840 --> 01:41:25.479 I think that's great. I wanted to bring you into 2056 01:41:25.520 --> 01:41:29.039 a conversation we've been having because in your former life, 2057 01:41:29.079 --> 01:41:30.880 and you're still a very young person, you've just done 2058 01:41:30.920 --> 01:41:34.119 so many really cool things. But I've been talking the 2059 01:41:34.159 --> 01:41:37.720 past couple of days Klein about you know, on one side, 2060 01:41:37.760 --> 01:41:41.000 you have NFL talent evaluators that actually worked for the 2061 01:41:41.079 --> 01:41:44.359 league and work for teams, and then on the other side, 2062 01:41:44.399 --> 01:41:48.359 you have media members that kind of moonlight as NFL 2063 01:41:48.479 --> 01:41:52.960 talent evaluators and draft you know, draft you know evaluators, 2064 01:41:52.960 --> 01:41:56.000 and oftentimes there is a massive gap between those two groups, 2065 01:41:56.039 --> 01:41:59.439 because if you're evaluating talent for a pro team or 2066 01:41:59.479 --> 01:42:02.239 a pro league, you have to remove emotion from the 2067 01:42:02.279 --> 01:42:06.159 equation and simply analyze the prospects you have at your disposal. 2068 01:42:06.199 --> 01:42:08.880 We're on the media side, especially during the draft cycle, 2069 01:42:08.960 --> 01:42:12.760 for whatever reason, people want so much engagement that they 2070 01:42:12.760 --> 01:42:15.840 don't necessarily pay as much attention to the nuts and 2071 01:42:15.880 --> 01:42:18.239 bolts of analyzing players, and they just want you to 2072 01:42:18.239 --> 01:42:21.159 engage with their content. Which brings me to this Shitter 2073 01:42:21.279 --> 01:42:24.439 Sanders story, which has just been fascinating. Is this as 2074 01:42:24.479 --> 01:42:27.600 simple as maybe media people getting this wrong and NFL 2075 01:42:27.680 --> 01:42:30.279 talent evaluators just saying he's not as good as you 2076 01:42:30.319 --> 01:42:30.920 people think. 2077 01:42:32.800 --> 01:42:36.039 Yeah, I think it's a little bit of both. As 2078 01:42:36.079 --> 01:42:38.720 someone who was on the media side of it, as 2079 01:42:38.720 --> 01:42:43.800 you mentioned back in what was it twenty twenty one 2080 01:42:43.880 --> 01:42:48.199 when we had justin Fields, you know, and I wrote 2081 01:42:48.359 --> 01:42:50.880 a story that you know, drove a lot of traffic. 2082 01:42:51.039 --> 01:42:53.239 You know, I'm not necessarily proud of that part, but 2083 01:42:54.359 --> 01:42:59.199 you know, the narratives that gets stuck with particular prospects 2084 01:42:59.279 --> 01:43:02.479 is very fascinating. And so you mentioned engagement, and I 2085 01:43:02.560 --> 01:43:04.119 was thinking about it, and I was talking to a friend 2086 01:43:04.119 --> 01:43:08.159 about this with Chador, you know, I was joking. I 2087 01:43:08.199 --> 01:43:10.920 was like, hey, like I loved him, but I would 2088 01:43:11.000 --> 01:43:13.119 I don't think he's a first round talent. I think 2089 01:43:13.159 --> 01:43:15.640 he has a weak arm. I don't I think he's 2090 01:43:15.680 --> 01:43:19.000 a great prospecting that he's tough as hell and we'll 2091 01:43:19.039 --> 01:43:20.800 hang in the pocket. I mean, he drists a little bit, 2092 01:43:20.880 --> 01:43:22.760 but he's willing to sink in the pot and we'll 2093 01:43:22.800 --> 01:43:25.119 throw over the mill you can't. Those are two traits 2094 01:43:25.119 --> 01:43:28.760 that I feel like, generally, you know, suggest that you 2095 01:43:28.760 --> 01:43:31.159 can last in the NFL. That being said, he doesn't 2096 01:43:31.159 --> 01:43:33.159 have the biggest arm and he's not the biggest dude, 2097 01:43:33.199 --> 01:43:34.640 So I'm not surprised at all. I would have taken 2098 01:43:34.720 --> 01:43:36.439 less than one and a half if I could have 2099 01:43:36.479 --> 01:43:40.680 gambled on it, even though two quarterbacks win, like with Shador. 2100 01:43:42.000 --> 01:43:45.239 It's really fascinating that. And I guess drafts in general, 2101 01:43:45.560 --> 01:43:50.920 right justin Fields drafted there was Trevor Lawrence all time prospect, 2102 01:43:51.159 --> 01:43:54.800 and we were still focused on the narratives that were 2103 01:43:54.840 --> 01:43:58.359 surrounding justin fields. That's why I wrote the article. It's like, 2104 01:43:58.640 --> 01:44:01.640 why are we talking about the negative about this bad 2105 01:44:01.720 --> 01:44:04.680 prospect instead of there's other people that we can talk 2106 01:44:04.680 --> 01:44:07.680 about and same wished the door. We had a show 2107 01:44:07.760 --> 01:44:11.720 to hey o Tani esque prospect in Travis Hunter who 2108 01:44:11.760 --> 01:44:14.359 went number two overall. I think that's more dramatic, like 2109 01:44:14.439 --> 01:44:18.560 there is a one unicle who wasn't selected number one. 2110 01:44:19.640 --> 01:44:22.560 I think that's way more compelling to me than you know, 2111 01:44:22.640 --> 01:44:25.840 a quarterback that probably wouldn't wouldn't have gone first overall 2112 01:44:25.840 --> 01:44:28.680 in the stronger quarterback class, you know, falling out of 2113 01:44:28.720 --> 01:44:32.119 the first round. I think it's compelling because you guys 2114 01:44:32.199 --> 01:44:34.600 know how it goes first and foremost, like college football 2115 01:44:34.640 --> 01:44:37.720 fans are most rapid and most passionate stand base in 2116 01:44:37.720 --> 01:44:41.399 the United States. I think the other element of that 2117 01:44:41.560 --> 01:44:44.119 is the Deon Sanders of it all. Granted I'm young, 2118 01:44:44.159 --> 01:44:47.640 I'm only twenty eight. I've covered I was covered at 2119 01:44:47.880 --> 01:44:51.479 in my previous job. I come to Colorado UCLA game 2120 01:44:51.520 --> 01:44:56.119 when they were in LA and my assignment was go 2121 01:44:56.439 --> 01:45:00.880 follow around Colorado, go hang around the tailgates, go watch 2122 01:45:00.920 --> 01:45:03.880 the game from the stands on the Colorado side. I've 2123 01:45:03.880 --> 01:45:07.239 been told how massive you know, Deon Sanders, how big 2124 01:45:07.239 --> 01:45:09.560 of a deal he is, And I understand that, but 2125 01:45:09.920 --> 01:45:13.079 I understand it even more having been around these people 2126 01:45:13.439 --> 01:45:16.880 who love and pray, and that's why Shaudor's number gotten fired. 2127 01:45:17.279 --> 01:45:19.319 I don't think it's like a great thing, but I'm 2128 01:45:19.319 --> 01:45:22.640 not surprised. It's their church essentially, people that put on 2129 01:45:22.680 --> 01:45:27.600 their pedestal, and so a compelling element of Shador being 2130 01:45:27.680 --> 01:45:31.119 Deion Sanders kid is why we're so engaged and for 2131 01:45:31.239 --> 01:45:34.039 him to be dropped all the way down to the 2132 01:45:34.079 --> 01:45:37.520 fifth round, I pray, look, and you guys watch college football. 2133 01:45:37.520 --> 01:45:39.479 I don't know if he's worse than Dylan Gabriel. I 2134 01:45:39.479 --> 01:45:42.119 don't think he's a worse quarterback process to some of 2135 01:45:42.159 --> 01:45:44.760 the other guys that went before him. So that gets 2136 01:45:44.760 --> 01:45:47.119 a little funky for me. But as far as him 2137 01:45:47.119 --> 01:45:49.439 falling out of the first round, I wasn't that shocked 2138 01:45:49.880 --> 01:45:52.600 or do you think, like he said, the narratives that 2139 01:45:52.720 --> 01:45:55.920 the media has a run with the negative. The negative 2140 01:45:56.000 --> 01:46:01.000 narratives are what drives content and attention, fortunately, and I 2141 01:46:01.000 --> 01:46:02.439 think that's what happened for sure. 2142 01:46:02.439 --> 01:46:04.319 I wanted to follow up with this, do you think 2143 01:46:04.399 --> 01:46:07.159 his dad did him a bit of a disservice because 2144 01:46:07.560 --> 01:46:10.600 the fact of the matter is Dion Sanders could sandbag 2145 01:46:10.640 --> 01:46:12.920 interviews all he wants, it didn't matter. He was one 2146 01:46:12.920 --> 01:46:14.680 of the best, if not the best cornerbacks in the 2147 01:46:14.720 --> 01:46:18.359 history pro football. And there were moments where Dion said 2148 01:46:18.399 --> 01:46:21.600 things like, we're going to get involved where he plays 2149 01:46:21.680 --> 01:46:25.680 and it might be Eli Manning's situation, and Deon saying 2150 01:46:25.720 --> 01:46:27.439 he's a top five pick, he should be the number 2151 01:46:27.479 --> 01:46:30.039 one pick, and you know, maybe the power of Dion 2152 01:46:30.159 --> 01:46:33.960 Sanders swayed everybody, including Vegas, by the way, did not 2153 01:46:34.119 --> 01:46:38.039 meet just media. Vegas at one point last year had 2154 01:46:38.039 --> 01:46:40.159 Shador as the favorite to be the number one pick. 2155 01:46:40.199 --> 01:46:42.359 Do you think throughout this whole process, Chador may have 2156 01:46:42.359 --> 01:46:44.439 been let down a little bit and done a disservice 2157 01:46:44.479 --> 01:46:45.039 by his dad? 2158 01:46:46.199 --> 01:46:48.600 Oh yeah, I think so. I think it's fair to say, 2159 01:46:48.720 --> 01:46:49.920 like you said for him. 2160 01:46:51.119 --> 01:46:51.880 Let's put it this way. 2161 01:46:51.920 --> 01:46:54.840 If you and I are running an NFL team and 2162 01:46:55.600 --> 01:46:57.439 we have a first round pick, we need a quarterback, 2163 01:46:58.199 --> 01:47:02.119 why would we risk who? Again, he's not no offense, 2164 01:47:02.439 --> 01:47:04.960 not Josh Allen right now, Cam Newton somewhere where he's 2165 01:47:05.119 --> 01:47:10.000 supremely physically gifted. We're gonna bet on the traits you don't. 2166 01:47:10.239 --> 01:47:15.439 Why would I risk, you know, Deon Sanders potentially affecting 2167 01:47:15.720 --> 01:47:19.039 our plan? You know, with a first round pick, it's 2168 01:47:19.159 --> 01:47:21.800 the value is just not worth the risk, and even 2169 01:47:21.880 --> 01:47:23.800 potentially a second round pick or a third round pick, 2170 01:47:23.920 --> 01:47:27.199 because then all of a sudden, the conversation becomes about 2171 01:47:27.359 --> 01:47:30.760 that and that toxicity. If we're being real as opposed 2172 01:47:30.760 --> 01:47:33.880 to what can you provide for our football team? And 2173 01:47:33.920 --> 01:47:38.159 does he fit as opposed to does Daddy like where 2174 01:47:38.159 --> 01:47:41.720 he's going that, and I do believe that that did 2175 01:47:41.720 --> 01:47:44.880 a disservice to him in terms of where he ended 2176 01:47:44.920 --> 01:47:45.560 up being landed. 2177 01:47:45.560 --> 01:47:47.319 And you know, some. 2178 01:47:47.279 --> 01:47:51.319 People have written that both Sor and Deon needed that humbling. 2179 01:47:51.640 --> 01:47:56.399 If the report's about him purposefully not just bombing meeting 2180 01:47:56.479 --> 01:48:00.600 and interviews like purposely being dismissive are true, I guess 2181 01:48:00.600 --> 01:48:03.119 on some level, yeah, he did need this like sort 2182 01:48:03.119 --> 01:48:05.600 of reckoning and humbling on some level. But at the 2183 01:48:05.600 --> 01:48:09.000 same time, you know, I do think that for Shador 2184 01:48:09.760 --> 01:48:11.760 while he you know, I would love to be in 2185 01:48:11.800 --> 01:48:13.560 a hus in the sense that I grew up as 2186 01:48:13.600 --> 01:48:16.760 Theon Sanders kid, but also yeah, with being his kid, 2187 01:48:16.800 --> 01:48:19.319 you probably have to be on the same You're probably 2188 01:48:19.359 --> 01:48:23.399 taught to be super confident and super brash on some level. 2189 01:48:23.479 --> 01:48:27.239 So you know, there's we could go on for like 2190 01:48:27.319 --> 01:48:31.680 two hours about this. It's really fascinating to me and sincerely. 2191 01:48:31.199 --> 01:48:31.359 But. 2192 01:48:32.840 --> 01:48:34.439 Yeah, at the end of the day, I do think 2193 01:48:34.479 --> 01:48:39.000 Dion being a little bit not over confident but brash 2194 01:48:39.039 --> 01:48:42.399 and suggesting that he would be involved in where Shador 2195 01:48:42.520 --> 01:48:45.039 lands did cost him. At the end of the day, 2196 01:48:45.439 --> 01:48:48.359 what you know, upwards of thirty million or whatever it 2197 01:48:48.479 --> 01:48:50.159 was that people have been able to project. 2198 01:48:50.640 --> 01:48:52.720 All Right, before I set you loose, I just looked 2199 01:48:52.800 --> 01:48:57.439 up some details of the upcoming untold the Fall of Farv, 2200 01:48:58.039 --> 01:49:03.000 and this is a perfect This is a perfect topic 2201 01:49:03.319 --> 01:49:06.319 and person, quite frankly, not just player to do a 2202 01:49:06.359 --> 01:49:10.439 documentary on, because it was such a wild ride as 2203 01:49:10.479 --> 01:49:12.560 a player that not a lot of people thought highly 2204 01:49:12.600 --> 01:49:15.239 of when he was a young college player, and ultimately 2205 01:49:15.880 --> 01:49:20.000 becoming one of the most entertaining the players in the 2206 01:49:20.039 --> 01:49:22.199 history of pro football to play quarterback, and then the 2207 01:49:22.239 --> 01:49:25.000 precipitous fault Caitlin that quite frankly. 2208 01:49:24.680 --> 01:49:26.359 Is still going on right in front of us. 2209 01:49:26.640 --> 01:49:28.800 So before I set you loose, what can you tell 2210 01:49:28.880 --> 01:49:31.439 us about the FARV documentary coming out next month? 2211 01:49:33.079 --> 01:49:36.520 Yeah, So from the cut that I've seen to just 2212 01:49:36.520 --> 01:49:39.000 to be fair like I the production house that did 2213 01:49:39.039 --> 01:49:43.319 make it was our one of our associate houses. From 2214 01:49:43.319 --> 01:49:46.840 what I've seen, it definitely centers around Jen Surger, the 2215 01:49:46.920 --> 01:49:50.800 woman who Brett Barre sat the inappropriate text to. He 2216 01:49:50.880 --> 01:49:55.000 used to work for the Jets, and getting her perspectives 2217 01:49:55.039 --> 01:50:00.520 is super fascinating because, like you said, it's it's Brett Fire, 2218 01:50:00.640 --> 01:50:05.079 someone who was one of the most entertaining and quarterbacks 2219 01:50:05.199 --> 01:50:09.159 in football. It's fascinating seeing how someone who didn't have 2220 01:50:09.359 --> 01:50:13.039 power suddenly being in a position where they are elevated. 2221 01:50:13.199 --> 01:50:15.840 Similar to like we were talking about with the Sanders 2222 01:50:15.880 --> 01:50:20.479 in Green Bay, Brett Favre was God essentially and for 2223 01:50:20.600 --> 01:50:23.039 him to you know, have the power that he had 2224 01:50:23.079 --> 01:50:27.079 as a face of the NFL, it's easy to or 2225 01:50:27.159 --> 01:50:29.880 not easy to see, but it's it's fascinating to see 2226 01:50:29.880 --> 01:50:34.319 how he misused that and wasn't maybe not aware, but 2227 01:50:35.920 --> 01:50:38.239 using his power for good. I don't know how to 2228 01:50:38.880 --> 01:50:42.600 articulate that, but it was unfortunate and it is sad because, 2229 01:50:42.680 --> 01:50:44.159 like I said, he was one of the most entertaining 2230 01:50:44.159 --> 01:50:47.319 players ever. I love watching highlights of Brett Farre like 2231 01:50:47.520 --> 01:50:49.439 there's no one who throws a football harder than him. 2232 01:50:49.880 --> 01:50:52.239 But at the end of the day, you know where 2233 01:50:52.279 --> 01:50:54.640 he's at right now and what he's been doing is 2234 01:50:54.720 --> 01:50:57.399 it's super unfortunate and seeing that the sense in real 2235 01:50:57.479 --> 01:51:00.039 time we talked to I think that we talked to 2236 01:51:01.359 --> 01:51:04.880 people involved in the lawsuit, or at least a part 2237 01:51:04.960 --> 01:51:08.439 of the Mississippi state government who do comment on how 2238 01:51:08.560 --> 01:51:11.800 unfortunate and sad it is that you know he's been 2239 01:51:11.840 --> 01:51:15.479 alleged of taking advantage of state funding. So it's a 2240 01:51:15.520 --> 01:51:18.159 really fascinating doc all things considered. 2241 01:51:18.640 --> 01:51:18.920 All right. 2242 01:51:18.920 --> 01:51:20.880 Next guest joined us last week to break down some 2243 01:51:21.000 --> 01:51:22.560 NFL draft storylines. 2244 01:51:22.600 --> 01:51:24.079 Now is time to look back on what we saw. 2245 01:51:24.119 --> 01:51:27.039 Are Buddy, Sam Bruckhaus from Sumer Sports On a Tuesday, Sam, 2246 01:51:27.039 --> 01:51:27.720 Happy Tuesday, man? 2247 01:51:27.720 --> 01:51:28.199 How are we doing? 2248 01:51:29.039 --> 01:51:32.520 Happy Tuesday? It's a Knicks game day here at seven 2249 01:51:32.640 --> 01:51:35.680 thirty eastern, so we'll be tuned into that, But for now, 2250 01:51:35.680 --> 01:51:36.760 I'm ready to break down some. 2251 01:51:36.840 --> 01:51:40.319 Draft wade a second, Wait a second, are you telling me, Sam, 2252 01:51:40.359 --> 01:51:41.119 you're a Knicks fan? 2253 01:51:42.119 --> 01:51:42.840 I am? 2254 01:51:42.960 --> 01:51:43.319 I live. 2255 01:51:44.119 --> 01:51:47.079 I live on Third Avenue in New York, so I'm 2256 01:51:47.119 --> 01:51:48.359 a big fan of the Knicks. 2257 01:51:48.840 --> 01:51:51.680 Okay, all right, Well, this is kind of a weird 2258 01:51:51.760 --> 01:51:54.960 radio situation in Utah where I am the host as 2259 01:51:54.960 --> 01:51:56.920 a Knicks fan and my producer Porter is also a 2260 01:51:56.960 --> 01:51:57.359 Knicks fan. 2261 01:51:57.399 --> 01:51:59.560 Are you? Are you a lifelong New York Knicks fan? 2262 01:52:00.439 --> 01:52:00.600 So? 2263 01:52:00.640 --> 01:52:04.119 I grew up in South Louisiana and I was in 2264 01:52:04.159 --> 01:52:06.640 a zone if you remember all the RSNS, where I 2265 01:52:06.640 --> 01:52:10.920 could catch both Fox Sports Houston and Cox Sports New Orleans. 2266 01:52:11.399 --> 01:52:14.399 So I kind of grew up watching vaguely all the 2267 01:52:14.439 --> 01:52:18.279 Southwestern teams. I grew up between Houston and New Orleans, 2268 01:52:18.319 --> 01:52:21.000 so sometimes I rooted for the Rocket, sometimes I rooted 2269 01:52:21.079 --> 01:52:23.760 for the Spurs. Sometimes I rooted for the Pelicans. But 2270 01:52:23.760 --> 01:52:25.760 when I was in middle school, I started liking the Knicks, 2271 01:52:25.760 --> 01:52:27.840 and then I moved up here to New York. So 2272 01:52:27.920 --> 01:52:30.760 now the Knicks are my chosen basketball team. 2273 01:52:30.960 --> 01:52:31.279 Love it. 2274 01:52:31.279 --> 01:52:33.880 So I can ask you this, are we as Nick fans? 2275 01:52:33.920 --> 01:52:35.159 Are we going to get it done tonight? 2276 01:52:36.479 --> 01:52:37.479 I'm certainly hoping. 2277 01:52:37.520 --> 01:52:39.880 So it seems like we're going to have to have 2278 01:52:39.960 --> 01:52:42.760 another thirty point game from Jalen Brunson in order to 2279 01:52:42.840 --> 01:52:46.680 do so. I was in the house at MSG for 2280 01:52:46.760 --> 01:52:51.920 Game one. I have some real fears about Malik Beasley 2281 01:52:51.960 --> 01:52:55.199 getting hot at any given point in time, and so 2282 01:52:55.680 --> 01:52:57.359 I don't want to jinx it. We may have to 2283 01:52:57.359 --> 01:53:00.680 put Malik Beasley back in the freezer to keep them 2284 01:53:00.680 --> 01:53:03.640 cold for a little longer, or at least for another game. 2285 01:53:03.760 --> 01:53:05.800 But I'm hoping we come out with the next victory. 2286 01:53:05.920 --> 01:53:08.439 Tell me this, Yeah, you know, I spent my childhood 2287 01:53:08.760 --> 01:53:12.520 going into midtown Manhattan to Madison Square Garden to watch 2288 01:53:12.520 --> 01:53:16.079 the next Is there that new York springtime buzz around 2289 01:53:16.119 --> 01:53:17.520 the next can you fill it in the city. 2290 01:53:18.399 --> 01:53:22.720 Oh yes, certainly. They're hosting like watch parties in and 2291 01:53:22.760 --> 01:53:26.840 around Manson Square gardens. So after a home victory, there's 2292 01:53:26.920 --> 01:53:29.039 as always people kind of sprinting in the streets to 2293 01:53:29.039 --> 01:53:33.119 get to MSG to get on the side talk review video, 2294 01:53:33.239 --> 01:53:34.800 which I'm sure they'll put out at the end of 2295 01:53:34.800 --> 01:53:38.960 the series. But there's also people watching. And so I've 2296 01:53:39.000 --> 01:53:41.119 been again, I'm from Louisiana, so I've been in the 2297 01:53:41.159 --> 01:53:45.000 house for Tiger Stadium versus Alabama, the New Orleans Saints 2298 01:53:45.079 --> 01:53:48.239 in the conference championship game against the Rams, and those 2299 01:53:48.319 --> 01:53:52.079 were pretty crazy. The fact that a game one MSG 2300 01:53:52.159 --> 01:53:55.239 game even stands up close to that is pretty impressive. 2301 01:53:55.359 --> 01:53:57.199 I love it well, Sam, now that I know that 2302 01:53:57.239 --> 01:53:59.039 you're a Knicks fan. We could do this for an 2303 01:53:59.039 --> 01:54:01.039 hour and a half, but we will not because we 2304 01:54:01.239 --> 01:54:03.720 let's talk at the NFL Draft, And of course I'm 2305 01:54:03.720 --> 01:54:05.920 going to start with the low hanging fruit and the 2306 01:54:05.920 --> 01:54:08.560 story that everybody's talked about. And you know, we're out 2307 01:54:08.600 --> 01:54:12.039 here in Pac twelve formerly Pac twelve Country, Big twelve Country. 2308 01:54:12.119 --> 01:54:15.359 So we watched Ador Sanders play against the Utes on 2309 01:54:15.439 --> 01:54:17.680 multiple occasions, and you know, watch a lot of his 2310 01:54:17.760 --> 01:54:21.399 college games, and I don't know where you had him analyzed. 2311 01:54:21.479 --> 01:54:25.439 Certainly there is always a big gap between media analyzing 2312 01:54:25.520 --> 01:54:29.239 prospects and then talent evaluators that work for teams, and 2313 01:54:29.279 --> 01:54:31.680 obviously that gap was bigger than most people thought, and 2314 01:54:31.720 --> 01:54:32.800 he slides to the fifth round. 2315 01:54:33.079 --> 01:54:34.079 What do you make of the story? 2316 01:54:34.880 --> 01:54:35.600 So, I mean, just. 2317 01:54:35.720 --> 01:54:38.319 On paper, you can make an argument that he was 2318 01:54:38.319 --> 01:54:40.479 a day one, day two quarterback. I thought that was 2319 01:54:40.520 --> 01:54:44.880 pretty clear. If you look at our sumer scores, we 2320 01:54:44.960 --> 01:54:47.960 have one for accuracy, which on a frame by frame, 2321 01:54:47.960 --> 01:54:52.800 millisecond by millisecond basis, figures out how accurate players are 2322 01:54:52.920 --> 01:54:55.439 as compared to every other play that we have in 2323 01:54:55.479 --> 01:54:58.239 our database. He was by far the most accurate passer 2324 01:54:58.279 --> 01:55:01.760 at all three levels in this draft class. So he 2325 01:55:01.840 --> 01:55:04.399 did have a superpower. Typically when you have a superpower, 2326 01:55:04.720 --> 01:55:07.960 it tends to translate to a higher draft profile. And 2327 01:55:07.960 --> 01:55:10.520 then you look at what the consensus big boards, they 2328 01:55:10.560 --> 01:55:14.439 which have over one hundred and ten media evaluators and 2329 01:55:14.560 --> 01:55:17.359 people that are close to teams if you are to 2330 01:55:17.760 --> 01:55:21.119 read arefa Son's consensus big board for example, and they 2331 01:55:21.119 --> 01:55:24.079 had him as the twenty first best prospect. Typically we 2332 01:55:24.159 --> 01:55:26.479 see that the floor for those type of players is 2333 01:55:26.520 --> 01:55:29.640 picked sixty eight. That was Malik Willis back in the day, 2334 01:55:29.680 --> 01:55:31.920 and Malik Willis was having you know, there was a 2335 01:55:31.920 --> 01:55:35.000 lot of weird COVID stuff going on that year and 2336 01:55:35.319 --> 01:55:37.680 a lot of kind of extinguating factors. Given he was 2337 01:55:37.680 --> 01:55:41.479 coming from Liberty, a G five school, So with all 2338 01:55:41.479 --> 01:55:43.720 that in mind, I thought he was pretty certified to 2339 01:55:43.800 --> 01:55:47.000 be a Day one or early Day two guy. And 2340 01:55:47.079 --> 01:55:48.800 so it brings up into my head that there was 2341 01:55:48.880 --> 01:55:53.359 extinguating circumstances. It seems as if there were some interview 2342 01:55:53.600 --> 01:55:55.960 things that came up. There seems like there was some 2343 01:55:57.000 --> 01:56:00.000 fears potentially about you know, his dad wanting to jump 2344 01:56:00.079 --> 01:56:02.279 into the NFL and whether that could cause like a 2345 01:56:02.399 --> 01:56:06.039 Lebron and Bronnie James situation where people thought Lebron may 2346 01:56:06.079 --> 01:56:09.960 want to go to another team in order to play 2347 01:56:10.000 --> 01:56:14.039 with his son. I think these are very interesting, one 2348 01:56:14.079 --> 01:56:18.800 of one chances to occur things, and we probably won't 2349 01:56:18.800 --> 01:56:21.239 see another drop like Shador standers in recent years. 2350 01:56:21.399 --> 01:56:23.600 Tell me if you believe I've talked to a few 2351 01:56:23.640 --> 01:56:25.680 guests about this over the past couple of days. Do 2352 01:56:25.720 --> 01:56:27.840 you believe that he was done a little bit of 2353 01:56:27.840 --> 01:56:31.079 a disservice by his dad. I mean, Dion talked a 2354 01:56:31.119 --> 01:56:34.399 lot about things, you know, such as we might pull 2355 01:56:34.439 --> 01:56:37.399 on Eli Manning situation, and I'll certainly be involved and 2356 01:56:37.439 --> 01:56:39.640 dictate where he plays. Now he backed off of some 2357 01:56:39.720 --> 01:56:42.880 of those comments, but throughout the course of the process, 2358 01:56:42.920 --> 01:56:45.359 I mean, you hear things like, oh, well, his dad 2359 01:56:45.439 --> 01:56:46.439 sandbag interviews. 2360 01:56:46.439 --> 01:56:46.920 So it's okay. 2361 01:56:46.920 --> 01:56:49.800 If Shador did well, no like Dion was generational, you 2362 01:56:49.920 --> 01:56:52.680 still might be the best cornerback that ever played pro football. 2363 01:56:52.720 --> 01:56:55.359 Do you think throughout this process Chador has done a 2364 01:56:55.399 --> 01:56:56.800 bit of a disservice by his father. 2365 01:56:58.159 --> 01:57:00.159 I don't know if I can parse that out. I 2366 01:57:00.159 --> 01:57:02.880 think it may have come down more to the fact 2367 01:57:03.000 --> 01:57:06.920 that we have eight to nine teams still evaluating quarterbacks 2368 01:57:06.920 --> 01:57:09.880 on their rookie contracts. Again, that's kind of a one 2369 01:57:09.920 --> 01:57:13.720 to one thing as of late. That so basically a 2370 01:57:13.720 --> 01:57:17.600 third of the league is evaluating rookie quarterbacks as we speak, 2371 01:57:17.640 --> 01:57:19.880 and thus not really in the market for a quarterback 2372 01:57:20.119 --> 01:57:22.359 on Day one or day two. When you really break 2373 01:57:22.359 --> 01:57:24.920 it down, the Browns were in the market for a quarterback. 2374 01:57:24.920 --> 01:57:26.680 The Steelers were in the market for the quarterback, and 2375 01:57:26.720 --> 01:57:29.680 the Giants were in the market for a quarterback as well, 2376 01:57:30.199 --> 01:57:33.840 and the Browns and Steelers decided to go different directions. Obviously, 2377 01:57:33.840 --> 01:57:36.479 the Browns end up coming back in the fifth round 2378 01:57:36.840 --> 01:57:39.079 and picking him, so I think it was more of 2379 01:57:39.119 --> 01:57:42.159 the environmental scan and the real really only to service 2380 01:57:42.239 --> 01:57:44.439 his dad could have done to him is putting him 2381 01:57:44.439 --> 01:57:46.880 in a position not to win, given that they were 2382 01:57:46.920 --> 01:57:49.640 contenders for the Big Twelve title this year. I can't 2383 01:57:49.840 --> 01:57:52.840 with any degree of confidence say that Coach Prime did 2384 01:57:52.840 --> 01:57:53.359 anything to. 2385 01:57:53.319 --> 01:57:56.880 Her his son removing Shador from the equation. Give me 2386 01:57:57.079 --> 01:58:00.399 another player that slid quite a bit that surprised you. 2387 01:58:01.399 --> 01:58:03.439 So I got to keep it at the quarterback position. 2388 01:58:04.000 --> 01:58:06.920 I'm surprised that Jalen Milroe made it as far as 2389 01:58:06.920 --> 01:58:10.640 he did. Again, the NFL invited him to go to 2390 01:58:10.680 --> 01:58:12.840 the draft in Green Bay. That indicated to me that 2391 01:58:12.880 --> 01:58:16.239 there were some league sources, and in that case direct 2392 01:58:16.359 --> 01:58:18.279 league sources that thought he was going to go in 2393 01:58:18.279 --> 01:58:21.600 the first round that didn't end up happening. He ends 2394 01:58:21.680 --> 01:58:24.520 up in a perfect situation as far as I'm concerned, 2395 01:58:24.800 --> 01:58:28.680 with the Seahawks behind Sam Darnold in a very similar state, 2396 01:58:28.800 --> 01:58:32.199 probably as JJ McCarthy was rehabing injury. In this case, 2397 01:58:32.760 --> 01:58:36.159 Jalen Molroe probably gets to continue playing. I thought teams 2398 01:58:36.159 --> 01:58:38.600 were going to take a shot on him as early 2399 01:58:38.720 --> 01:58:41.439 as the late first round or early second round, given 2400 01:58:41.439 --> 01:58:45.119 that he had some of the highest highs in the draft, 2401 01:58:45.399 --> 01:58:48.199 and then just some other followers. I think more due 2402 01:58:49.199 --> 01:58:52.960 to the structural aspects of the draft. Jalen Walker, I 2403 01:58:53.000 --> 01:58:54.640 was kind of surprised that he made it all the 2404 01:58:54.640 --> 01:58:57.000 way to the Falcons. I thought he could but beee 2405 01:58:57.000 --> 01:59:01.319 a potential top ten pick. But sometimes the draft just 2406 01:59:01.359 --> 01:59:04.920 plays out as it does. Teams don't necessarily bite on 2407 01:59:05.119 --> 01:59:08.199 certain premium positions, or if you're a flex player like 2408 01:59:08.279 --> 01:59:12.039 Jalen walker is, they maybe project you to a different position, 2409 01:59:12.319 --> 01:59:16.279 the off ball linebacking position in their defensive scheme. Thus 2410 01:59:16.319 --> 01:59:17.680 the Falcons get to snap him up. 2411 01:59:17.920 --> 01:59:20.399 What about the biggest reach the player that was off 2412 01:59:20.439 --> 01:59:22.920 the board the uent Wow, that seems way too high 2413 01:59:23.000 --> 01:59:23.520 for that guy. 2414 01:59:24.520 --> 01:59:29.199 So I think when you really analyze it very closely, 2415 01:59:30.199 --> 01:59:32.079 I don't want to call it a reach because I 2416 01:59:32.119 --> 01:59:34.119 know y'all are out there in raid Her territory. But 2417 01:59:34.239 --> 01:59:37.199 I personally, if I were asked to recommend what I 2418 01:59:37.239 --> 01:59:40.000 would do in the first round. I would not recommend 2419 01:59:40.079 --> 01:59:43.159 taking Ashton Genty at pick six. We saw how it 2420 01:59:43.199 --> 01:59:46.199 turned out in New York. There was one kind of 2421 01:59:46.319 --> 01:59:49.600 playoff year that seemed like a fluke where Sakwuon Barkley 2422 01:59:50.000 --> 01:59:52.960 was able to play well in a Giant's uniform and 2423 01:59:53.000 --> 01:59:55.680 then it ends up that he is an MVP candidate 2424 01:59:55.720 --> 01:59:59.520 in someone else's uniform. I think that's typically going to 2425 01:59:59.640 --> 02:00:02.920 how be how we continue to see running backs end 2426 02:00:03.000 --> 02:00:05.159 up in this league, and frankly, that's how it's ended 2427 02:00:05.239 --> 02:00:07.880 up for pretty much everyone that has drafted a first 2428 02:00:07.960 --> 02:00:10.079 round running back. It's going to be very interesting to 2429 02:00:10.119 --> 02:00:12.640 see how the Falcons, the last team to take a 2430 02:00:12.720 --> 02:00:16.800 running back in that position, approach it after this year, 2431 02:00:17.279 --> 02:00:20.560 especially if they don't make the playoffs with John Robinson. 2432 02:00:21.000 --> 02:00:22.760 But I just think it puts you in a very 2433 02:00:22.840 --> 02:00:26.920 stressful situation in which Aston Genty has to be this 2434 02:00:27.079 --> 02:00:29.880 year one of the top five running backs in the league. 2435 02:00:29.960 --> 02:00:31.720 And there's a lot of good running backs in this 2436 02:00:31.840 --> 02:00:34.479 league right now. That's asking a lot of a twenty 2437 02:00:34.520 --> 02:00:36.560 one year old, twenty two year old player. 2438 02:00:36.560 --> 02:00:40.880 Away from just individual prospects and more team related questions. 2439 02:00:40.880 --> 02:00:43.760 Give me some winners, some teams that came away with 2440 02:00:44.279 --> 02:00:46.680 a good draft over the course of the three days. 2441 02:00:47.159 --> 02:00:50.039 So you got to look at the Los Angeles Rams 2442 02:00:50.039 --> 02:00:53.239 and what they did. They got a first round pick 2443 02:00:53.600 --> 02:00:57.399 next year for the twenty sixth pick in the draft. 2444 02:00:57.840 --> 02:01:00.880 That's really we've never really seen that before. Even right 2445 02:01:00.960 --> 02:01:02.720 before it, the Giants, who I think had a pretty 2446 02:01:02.720 --> 02:01:06.399 good draft as well, traded into the twenty fifth pick 2447 02:01:06.439 --> 02:01:09.560 for a lesser price. And now the Rams have two 2448 02:01:09.640 --> 02:01:12.680 first round picks in which they could potentially replace Matthew 2449 02:01:12.720 --> 02:01:15.479 Stafford next year. They were not even close to that 2450 02:01:15.520 --> 02:01:19.720 scenario this year. And a kind of underlying caveat to 2451 02:01:19.760 --> 02:01:22.239 this is we think of the Rams with Sean McVay 2452 02:01:22.319 --> 02:01:24.840 and less Need and Matthew Stafford and Puka Nakua and 2453 02:01:24.880 --> 02:01:27.880 all these good players as a team that is just 2454 02:01:27.960 --> 02:01:31.920 a certified playoff candidate. Every year they're over under win 2455 02:01:32.039 --> 02:01:34.359 total this year is nine and a half. So that 2456 02:01:34.479 --> 02:01:38.319 indicates to me that they looked at themselves realized that 2457 02:01:39.279 --> 02:01:42.439 the market doesn't think we're that great of a team. Obviously, 2458 02:01:42.479 --> 02:01:44.680 we are going to try to overachieve that as much 2459 02:01:44.720 --> 02:01:47.560 as possible for all intentsive purposes. They were one play 2460 02:01:47.960 --> 02:01:51.720 away from the conference championship. But you got to understand, 2461 02:01:51.720 --> 02:01:53.960 you got an aging quarterback, you had a lot of 2462 02:01:54.000 --> 02:01:56.880 injuries last year. You have a very youthful defense that 2463 02:01:56.960 --> 02:02:00.199 hopefully grows another year. But the idea that they were 2464 02:02:00.239 --> 02:02:03.960 able to get a first round pick for as late 2465 02:02:03.960 --> 02:02:07.079 of a pick that they had is quite frankly impressive. 2466 02:02:07.159 --> 02:02:09.439 And then another item. They just came in with the 2467 02:02:09.520 --> 02:02:12.560 plan and they almost always execute it. Here's a weird 2468 02:02:12.600 --> 02:02:15.800 little silver lining that I've been finding about how they 2469 02:02:15.960 --> 02:02:19.520 liked to draft. Most of their defensive linemen are guys 2470 02:02:19.520 --> 02:02:23.800 who transferred up from lower levels the FCS, the G five, 2471 02:02:24.039 --> 02:02:28.000 into a power conference and immediately contributed. I'm talking about 2472 02:02:28.439 --> 02:02:34.159 Braden Fisk, Jared Vers, Kobe Turner, Byron Young. That's four guys. 2473 02:02:34.399 --> 02:02:37.720 They added another one of those guys, Josiah Stewart out 2474 02:02:37.760 --> 02:02:41.760 of Michigan, previously was a coastal Carolina blew the doors 2475 02:02:41.840 --> 02:02:43.199 off of our suomer scores. 2476 02:02:43.479 --> 02:02:44.239 They had him in. 2477 02:02:44.199 --> 02:02:47.399 The middle of the draft. I think between those two moves, 2478 02:02:47.439 --> 02:02:51.680 sticking to their plan, continuing to have a process, that 2479 02:02:51.800 --> 02:02:53.159 is why I like the Rams draft. 2480 02:02:53.560 --> 02:02:56.000 On the other side, a team that left to scratch 2481 02:02:56.000 --> 02:02:57.800 in your head after the draft process. 2482 02:02:58.920 --> 02:02:59.600 I don't know if. 2483 02:02:59.520 --> 02:03:03.039 I'd say scratching my head as much as it was 2484 02:03:03.079 --> 02:03:05.319 just kind of all over the place. And the way 2485 02:03:05.359 --> 02:03:08.800 I described the Cleveland Browns draft is like when you 2486 02:03:08.840 --> 02:03:11.680 go to the Walgreens or you go to the convenience 2487 02:03:11.680 --> 02:03:14.840 store and you really just want a single bag of chips, 2488 02:03:15.159 --> 02:03:17.880 and then you are a single Snickers bar and you 2489 02:03:18.000 --> 02:03:19.880 bring that up and they're like, hey, you could get 2490 02:03:19.880 --> 02:03:23.439 two for one, and you're like, uh, okay, well, I 2491 02:03:23.439 --> 02:03:26.000 guess I'm eating two bags of chips now, and then 2492 02:03:26.039 --> 02:03:28.279 you feel kind of bad afterwards, but at least you've 2493 02:03:28.279 --> 02:03:30.800 got two bags of chips for the price of one. 2494 02:03:31.119 --> 02:03:33.880 That happened twice to the Browns. I think. I think 2495 02:03:33.920 --> 02:03:37.039 they were in a position to select Travis Hunter, and 2496 02:03:37.079 --> 02:03:39.560 the Jaguars just made an offer, as they say and 2497 02:03:39.640 --> 02:03:43.319 the Godfather, that they just simply couldn't refuse. They, very 2498 02:03:43.359 --> 02:03:45.920 similarly to the breakdown that I gave of the Rams, 2499 02:03:46.199 --> 02:03:49.039 were able to get a total another first round pick 2500 02:03:49.119 --> 02:03:52.880 next year for their selection, alongside moving just a few 2501 02:03:52.920 --> 02:03:57.319 picks afterward. I think if they evaluated the situation just 2502 02:03:57.399 --> 02:04:01.039 on its face, Travis Hunter, a two way player, very shiny, 2503 02:04:01.399 --> 02:04:04.159 but at the same time, no player has really done 2504 02:04:04.159 --> 02:04:06.920 a two way thing at the professional level. And then 2505 02:04:07.159 --> 02:04:10.399 you look at all of those snaps he took at Colorado, 2506 02:04:10.760 --> 02:04:13.640 maybe a potential for an injury. He's taken more snaps 2507 02:04:13.640 --> 02:04:16.880 than probably any player in recent draft history. So I 2508 02:04:16.880 --> 02:04:19.880 think you take those two analytics, you trade back. It 2509 02:04:20.000 --> 02:04:23.000 probably has the same inspected value with Mason Graham, who 2510 02:04:23.159 --> 02:04:26.000 also blew the doors off of our Schoomer scores, has 2511 02:04:26.000 --> 02:04:29.239 a little bit more predictable position at the interior defensive tackle, 2512 02:04:29.680 --> 02:04:31.640 but it doesn't have the same taste. They had a 2513 02:04:31.680 --> 02:04:35.399 potential to get the certified number one consens Big Board player, 2514 02:04:35.600 --> 02:04:38.680 and because the offer was too good, they end up 2515 02:04:38.680 --> 02:04:41.800 moving back. Same thing at the quarterback position. They go 2516 02:04:41.840 --> 02:04:44.119 get their guy. Quite a bit of a reach if 2517 02:04:44.159 --> 02:04:47.800 you're just looking at expected draft position on Dylan Gabriel. 2518 02:04:48.039 --> 02:04:50.279 Then all of a sudden, Shador Sanders is still on 2519 02:04:50.319 --> 02:04:53.319 the board. It becomes too good of a value to 2520 02:04:53.439 --> 02:04:57.239 pass up to have those two guys, who I assume 2521 02:04:57.680 --> 02:04:59.600 they thought were two of the better quarterbacks than this 2522 02:04:59.760 --> 02:05:03.319 draft on their team. But it leaves a weird taste 2523 02:05:03.359 --> 02:05:06.239 given they passed him up so many times I think 2524 02:05:06.640 --> 02:05:08.880 that kind of makes you scratch your head. It seems 2525 02:05:08.920 --> 02:05:12.720 like two things where the value the analytics say it 2526 02:05:12.760 --> 02:05:15.039 was the right thing to do, but you know, it 2527 02:05:15.119 --> 02:05:17.520 feels a little weird when you end up executing it. 2528 02:05:18.000 --> 02:05:21.159 Every time Travis Hunter has asked about it, he's very 2529 02:05:21.239 --> 02:05:23.880 front facing about his belief that he should be allowed 2530 02:05:23.920 --> 02:05:26.239 to play on both sides of the ball. Jacksonville hasn't 2531 02:05:26.279 --> 02:05:30.039 been as adamant as far as what their plans are. 2532 02:05:30.159 --> 02:05:31.399 How do you think this plays out? 2533 02:05:32.920 --> 02:05:34.920 I think they're going to use them on offense first, 2534 02:05:35.039 --> 02:05:37.319 Liam Cohen as an offensive player. I don't know if 2535 02:05:37.319 --> 02:05:39.840 that's exactly what I would do, because I think that 2536 02:05:40.640 --> 02:05:43.079 a single offensive snap is maybe a little bit more 2537 02:05:43.159 --> 02:05:45.840 valuable than a defensive snap. So you can put him 2538 02:05:45.840 --> 02:05:49.079 in on key downs, third downs, first down packages and 2539 02:05:49.119 --> 02:05:50.960 still get a lot of value and swap them in 2540 02:05:51.000 --> 02:05:53.359 and out, whereas at the cornerback position he could cut 2541 02:05:53.399 --> 02:05:56.520 off the entirety of the field on any given pass play. 2542 02:05:56.800 --> 02:05:58.960 But from my understanding of what they said in the 2543 02:05:58.960 --> 02:06:01.800 press conference, going to be an offensive player first and 2544 02:06:01.840 --> 02:06:04.359 be a package guy on defense. Don't know if that's 2545 02:06:04.359 --> 02:06:07.000 the way I would approach it, but it makes sense 2546 02:06:07.039 --> 02:06:09.560 in terms of positional value, and I think that's the 2547 02:06:09.560 --> 02:06:11.399 way it's going to end up going. I wouldn't be 2548 02:06:11.399 --> 02:06:13.039 shocked if in three or four years he's just a 2549 02:06:13.079 --> 02:06:13.640 wide receiver. 2550 02:06:13.720 --> 02:06:18.039 Frankly, Jackson Dart grew up about fifteen miles north of 2551 02:06:18.079 --> 02:06:22.039 where we're talking today, but played his high school football 2552 02:06:22.039 --> 02:06:25.199 about fifteen miles south at Corner Canyon, and they've had 2553 02:06:25.279 --> 02:06:29.079 Kwie Iron developing quarterbacks. Of course, he ends up QB 2554 02:06:29.239 --> 02:06:32.319 two and the Giants trade back in to take Jackson Dart. 2555 02:06:32.319 --> 02:06:33.439 How do you think this is going to work? 2556 02:06:35.039 --> 02:06:38.000 It's an interesting, you know, play out. I think that 2557 02:06:38.159 --> 02:06:40.880 the Jalen Hurts comp or at least the Jalen Hurts 2558 02:06:40.880 --> 02:06:44.600 play style makes sense. He does like to go after 2559 02:06:44.640 --> 02:06:48.159 his first read and then scramble, very similar to Jalen Hurts. 2560 02:06:48.720 --> 02:06:52.359 He was very accurate at the short and intermediate levels 2561 02:06:52.399 --> 02:06:55.560 this year, even though the deep passes were not super accurate, 2562 02:06:55.600 --> 02:06:58.560 which is what I think separated him from guys like 2563 02:06:58.640 --> 02:07:03.600 Cameron Ward or like Sanders, for example. But he kind 2564 02:07:03.600 --> 02:07:05.279 of takes a lot of sacks, so it's going to 2565 02:07:05.319 --> 02:07:08.039 be interesting to see how they bring him along. I 2566 02:07:08.079 --> 02:07:10.399 think the pick and the value in which they got 2567 02:07:10.399 --> 02:07:13.560 the twenty fifth pick was fine, and I think the 2568 02:07:13.600 --> 02:07:15.560 way that they approached the rest of the draft made 2569 02:07:15.600 --> 02:07:17.399 a lot of sense. I think the Giants end up 2570 02:07:17.439 --> 02:07:20.840 coming out process wise as one of the bigger winners 2571 02:07:21.199 --> 02:07:24.039 of this draft season. Given they got their guy at quarterback. 2572 02:07:24.239 --> 02:07:26.680 It was quite a bit of a reach in terms 2573 02:07:26.680 --> 02:07:29.760 of the consensus big board, in terms of how people 2574 02:07:29.840 --> 02:07:32.800 projected this player to be long term, in terms of 2575 02:07:32.800 --> 02:07:36.319 the expected draft position, where people thought Jackson Dart was 2576 02:07:36.359 --> 02:07:38.079 going to go, and where you would have to get 2577 02:07:38.119 --> 02:07:40.800 in order to select him. It really wasn't a reach 2578 02:07:40.840 --> 02:07:43.439 at all. All together, I think I'm not going to 2579 02:07:43.479 --> 02:07:46.279 criticize the quarterback selection, particularly when it's a guy who 2580 02:07:46.279 --> 02:07:49.439 has such a good relationship with the head coach and 2581 02:07:49.479 --> 02:07:53.000 the offensive coordinator. So all together, I think it's all right. 2582 02:07:53.119 --> 02:07:55.039 I think it's going to be good for Giants fans, 2583 02:07:55.079 --> 02:07:58.000 and I think, frankly for the Giants all together. The 2584 02:07:58.039 --> 02:08:02.600 fact that you have Wilson, Jameis Winston, and Jackson Dart 2585 02:08:02.640 --> 02:08:05.560 all under the roof, you probably are in at least 2586 02:08:05.560 --> 02:08:09.199 safe hands to do better than last year per se 2587 02:08:09.479 --> 02:08:12.199 and actually get the ball of the elite neighbors quite 2588 02:08:12.199 --> 02:08:13.279 a few times this year. 2589 02:08:13.560 --> 02:08:17.840 I will take an opportunity selfishly, as a lifelong suffering 2590 02:08:17.840 --> 02:08:19.760 fan of the New York Football Jets, to ask you, 2591 02:08:19.800 --> 02:08:21.000 how do you think my squad did? 2592 02:08:21.960 --> 02:08:22.199 Look? 2593 02:08:22.239 --> 02:08:25.479 I liked it pretty down Broadway, which is what they needed. 2594 02:08:25.680 --> 02:08:30.000 They got a tackle at the right position early on. 2595 02:08:30.359 --> 02:08:32.000 That's what they needed. I thought that they were going 2596 02:08:32.039 --> 02:08:35.159 to want to run the ball. Darren Mugi, their general manager, 2597 02:08:35.399 --> 02:08:37.960 comes for the Broncos, built on a strong offensive line. 2598 02:08:38.000 --> 02:08:40.479 Aaron Glynn from the Lions also built on a strong 2599 02:08:40.520 --> 02:08:44.159 offensive line. Then they just made good picks at good positions. 2600 02:08:44.439 --> 02:08:47.239 As we moved on. Tight end Mason Taylor good value 2601 02:08:47.239 --> 02:08:50.199 at the selection, was a very productive guy at LSU 2602 02:08:50.560 --> 02:08:54.479 as a Riah Thomas, the cornerback from Florida State, kind 2603 02:08:54.520 --> 02:08:57.760 of benefited the Jets kind of benefited from a swing down. 2604 02:08:58.079 --> 02:09:01.199 Florida State had a year, a night marish year. Given 2605 02:09:01.279 --> 02:09:04.039 that those two guys I mentioned earlier, Jared Verse and 2606 02:09:04.119 --> 02:09:06.439 Braden Fist, ended up being two of the better defensive 2607 02:09:06.479 --> 02:09:10.039 linemen in the NFL much less college football this year, 2608 02:09:10.079 --> 02:09:11.920 they take a downturn. I think that was a good 2609 02:09:11.920 --> 02:09:15.760 selection altogether. I like what the Jets did pretty down Broadway. 2610 02:09:16.119 --> 02:09:18.520 Pretty I'm not gonna call it safe, because the draft 2611 02:09:18.560 --> 02:09:20.520 is never safe, but it seems as if they made 2612 02:09:20.680 --> 02:09:24.359 good selections at good prices at positions that matter. 2613 02:09:24.840 --> 02:09:27.279 A couple of minutes left, Sam before set you loose, 2614 02:09:27.279 --> 02:09:29.000 so I'll take advantage of the space to ask you 2615 02:09:29.039 --> 02:09:32.880 about teams that are highly supported here locally. John Lynch 2616 02:09:33.720 --> 02:09:37.119 used his first five picks on defensive players. What do 2617 02:09:37.119 --> 02:09:39.119 you think of what the forty nine ers came away with? 2618 02:09:40.239 --> 02:09:42.640 I think the forty nine ers have their own separate 2619 02:09:42.680 --> 02:09:46.880 approach to these things. Typically they will just go ahead 2620 02:09:46.880 --> 02:09:49.239 and reach and get their guys, which is fine, It's 2621 02:09:49.279 --> 02:09:52.079 worked out for them, Okay, Just analytically, maybe not the 2622 02:09:52.119 --> 02:09:54.840 best process, and you put yourself kind of behind the 2623 02:09:54.840 --> 02:09:57.239 eight ball on having to hit on these players. Here's 2624 02:09:57.239 --> 02:09:59.560 a player I want to highlight up in Stout out 2625 02:09:59.560 --> 02:10:02.279 of Western Kentucky. He was quite a bit of a reach, 2626 02:10:02.399 --> 02:10:04.920 but then I went and looked at his summer scores 2627 02:10:05.279 --> 02:10:09.640 and he was excellent blue chip at limiting separation from 2628 02:10:09.680 --> 02:10:12.359 wide receivers, at covering these guys both in man and 2629 02:10:12.520 --> 02:10:16.119 zone and press covered. I think the reason why he 2630 02:10:16.640 --> 02:10:19.319 was not a highly touted prospect was because Number one, 2631 02:10:19.359 --> 02:10:21.880 he's out of Western Kentucky. Number two, he is pretty 2632 02:10:21.880 --> 02:10:24.560 diminutive in size. I'm talking five to seven, five to eight. 2633 02:10:25.079 --> 02:10:28.119 I think he is my favorite prospect from their draft. 2634 02:10:28.560 --> 02:10:32.159 Denver Bronco seven picks and the only ute selected was 2635 02:10:32.239 --> 02:10:35.159 Caleb Lohner, who really danned a name for himself as 2636 02:10:35.199 --> 02:10:36.840 a high quality basketball player. 2637 02:10:36.880 --> 02:10:39.279 Around here. We have a lot of Broncos fans here 2638 02:10:39.279 --> 02:10:42.399 in Salt Lake City. How do you think Denver did so? 2639 02:10:42.600 --> 02:10:45.000 I think they did a pretty good job. You know, 2640 02:10:45.119 --> 02:10:48.159 you look at what they want to do all the time, 2641 02:10:48.479 --> 02:10:52.239 and it is attack, attack on defense with Vance Joseph 2642 02:10:52.279 --> 02:10:56.279 and then build up an established balance offensive passing game 2643 02:10:56.760 --> 02:10:57.880 for Sean Payton. 2644 02:10:58.279 --> 02:10:58.600 John A. 2645 02:10:58.720 --> 02:11:01.640 Barren really loved the selet I think this was a 2646 02:11:01.680 --> 02:11:04.000 guy they probably had high on their board. Did they 2647 02:11:04.000 --> 02:11:06.560 maybe want to go with another position perhaps, but he 2648 02:11:06.720 --> 02:11:09.079 just fell and they snagged him up. That's going to 2649 02:11:09.119 --> 02:11:12.640 be a nasty defense with Riley Moss, Whu Funga the safety, 2650 02:11:12.920 --> 02:11:14.960 Patzertan the defensive player of the year, and now jo 2651 02:11:15.079 --> 02:11:18.880 Da Barron slotting in at the slot corner. I'm going 2652 02:11:18.960 --> 02:11:20.800 to be really interested to see how he mixes in 2653 02:11:20.880 --> 02:11:24.159 another guy, Pat Bryant, the wide receiver round three. They 2654 02:11:24.199 --> 02:11:26.199 really had to need at wide receiver. I wouldn't be 2655 02:11:26.199 --> 02:11:28.439 surprised if this guy was another guy they were a 2656 02:11:28.439 --> 02:11:31.600 little higher on than most teams. He popped up really 2657 02:11:31.640 --> 02:11:34.720 well in our sumer scores in terms of getting open 2658 02:11:34.840 --> 02:11:38.039 and after the catch. I really liked that selection. And 2659 02:11:38.079 --> 02:11:41.279 then you mentioned Caleb Lohner as well, seventh round pick. 2660 02:11:41.479 --> 02:11:43.279 I think it's going to be interesting to see how 2661 02:11:43.319 --> 02:11:45.520 he can slot in at the tight end position, given 2662 02:11:45.520 --> 02:11:47.800 that Sean Payton over the years with the Saints was 2663 02:11:47.880 --> 02:11:50.039 able to find value late in the draft at the 2664 02:11:50.039 --> 02:11:50.760 tight end position. 2665 02:11:51.039 --> 02:11:54.159 Last one, I know you touched on the disagreement you 2666 02:11:54.199 --> 02:11:55.359 had with the Raiders. 2667 02:11:55.680 --> 02:11:58.279 You know when it comes to a perceived reach. 2668 02:11:58.319 --> 02:12:01.359 But Dad eleven overall pin and by proximity, that's the 2669 02:12:01.399 --> 02:12:05.000 closest team dous Sharon saw Lake macro thirty thousand foot view. 2670 02:12:05.000 --> 02:12:07.359 How do you think the Raiders did so? 2671 02:12:07.760 --> 02:12:11.279 Again, Mike, it's tough. Was Ashton gent one of the 2672 02:12:11.479 --> 02:12:16.359 most nflready looking players. Yes, so as a result, good 2673 02:12:16.439 --> 02:12:18.920 pick for them. Everyone thought that he was going to 2674 02:12:18.920 --> 02:12:21.880 go around there. It's just tough from an analytical perspective 2675 02:12:21.920 --> 02:12:24.199 to draft a running back guy. I want to highlight 2676 02:12:24.279 --> 02:12:28.039 Jack besh out of Louisiana. He's an excellent wide receiver, 2677 02:12:28.199 --> 02:12:30.319 really showed out at the Senior Bowl. I'm going to 2678 02:12:30.359 --> 02:12:33.680 be interested in how they use him in particular, but 2679 02:12:34.119 --> 02:12:37.199 just kind of down the line, a lot of needs addressed. 2680 02:12:37.239 --> 02:12:39.960 As you said, eleven picks made a guy. I want 2681 02:12:39.960 --> 02:12:43.479 to highlight Round six, pick four, JJ Pegeese. I'm really 2682 02:12:43.479 --> 02:12:47.399 interested to see how Chip Kelly utilizes him because here's 2683 02:12:47.399 --> 02:12:50.640 a guy who was really recruited as a tight end 2684 02:12:50.800 --> 02:12:54.920 ends up becoming an impact performer at defensive tackle. I 2685 02:12:54.920 --> 02:12:57.119 wouldn't be surprised if he plays a little both ways. 2686 02:12:57.119 --> 02:12:59.760 Ball Sam, Where can people go find your work? 2687 02:12:59.800 --> 02:12:59.920 Bud? 2688 02:13:00.880 --> 02:13:01.079 Yeah? 2689 02:13:01.159 --> 02:13:04.920 Go check out our new documentary on YouTube. It's called 2690 02:13:05.319 --> 02:13:10.520 From Undrafted to Unforgettable. It's about Jonathan Cassius, a linebacker 2691 02:13:11.000 --> 02:13:15.000 NFL multi time Super Bowl winner. I went into New Jersey, 2692 02:13:15.079 --> 02:13:18.159 his hometown, interviewed him and if you're a football fan, 2693 02:13:18.279 --> 02:13:22.279 you're gonna love his story coming out of New Brunswick, 2694 02:13:22.319 --> 02:13:27.159 New Jersey, overcoming injury at Wisconsin, becoming a core special 2695 02:13:27.199 --> 02:13:30.199 teams player, and then becoming a starter for the Saints, 2696 02:13:30.239 --> 02:13:33.000 the Patriots, and the Giants. Go check that out YouTube 2697 02:13:33.079 --> 02:13:35.560 sun Mersumer sports dot com. 2698 02:13:35.640 --> 02:13:37.279 Thank you, my friend, having good week and we'll do 2699 02:13:37.319 --> 02:13:37.840 it again soon. 2700 02:13:38.479 --> 02:13:39.279 Thank you all so much. 2701 02:13:39.319 --> 02:13:40.159 Bye bye, all right. 2702 02:13:40.079 --> 02:13:42.319 Sam Brockhaus before we catch a break, Ryan from the 2703 02:13:42.319 --> 02:13:45.359 dishpro stops by. Pick up the phone in Dill eight 2704 02:13:45.359 --> 02:13:47.319 oh one four to two four Dish and you'll find 2705 02:13:47.319 --> 02:13:49.359 the ability to save a lot of money on a 2706 02:13:49.359 --> 02:13:50.159 lot of different things. 2707 02:13:50.199 --> 02:13:51.000 What's going on? Ryan? 2708 02:13:51.680 --> 02:13:53.680 And I'm telling you, if you're a cable customer and 2709 02:13:53.760 --> 02:13:56.520 you saw this last rate increase, you saw your bill 2710 02:13:56.600 --> 02:14:00.920 go up guys like ten twenty percent. It just depends 2711 02:14:00.920 --> 02:14:04.920 on your area. Listen, stop over paying. Pick up the phone. 2712 02:14:05.159 --> 02:14:06.359 We'll lower your bill. 2713 02:14:06.359 --> 02:14:09.239 Massively, truly save you not just a few hundred bucks 2714 02:14:09.239 --> 02:14:12.600 over a year, but a few thousand dollars. Gets you 2715 02:14:12.680 --> 02:14:16.319 the biggest fastest DVR out there. It'll auto hop commercials, 2716 02:14:16.439 --> 02:14:20.079 auto records your games for you Pleasure'll have access to 2717 02:14:20.119 --> 02:14:23.319 all the streaming apps built into the system. Simple and easy. 2718 02:14:23.640 --> 02:14:28.239 Call us today, get upgraded? Sorry, ask about our great 2719 02:14:28.239 --> 02:14:32.079 internet options. We have to half a dozen internet providers 2720 02:14:32.319 --> 02:14:36.399 thirty five to fifteen bucks a month listen, stop over paying, 2721 02:14:36.680 --> 02:14:39.840 lower your bill, upgrade your service. Just call us. We'll 2722 02:14:39.840 --> 02:14:43.079 fetch up with dinner at jcw's move free movie channels 2723 02:14:43.159 --> 02:14:46.560 and uh dinner and also free installation call us four 2724 02:14:46.640 --> 02:14:49.359 two four dish eight oh one four to four dish. 2725 02:14:50.079 --> 02:14:53.479 All right, final segment of the show Today, fun Tuesday 2726 02:14:53.520 --> 02:14:55.640 show with a lot going on. It's a busy night 2727 02:14:55.680 --> 02:14:59.000 in both the world of pro hockey and pro basketball, 2728 02:14:59.000 --> 02:15:02.039 with a lot of Stanley Cup action and NBA playoffs 2729 02:15:02.079 --> 02:15:03.199 as well, So enjoy that. 2730 02:15:03.239 --> 02:15:03.520 Tonight. 2731 02:15:03.640 --> 02:15:05.880 I will be on TV with Dave Fox, who has 2732 02:15:05.920 --> 02:15:09.880 two Pelotons and two Emmys, wasn't on the show today, which, 2733 02:15:10.039 --> 02:15:12.439 you know whatever, I thought that was kind of the deal. 2734 02:15:12.720 --> 02:15:14.039 We'll see you even get him on this week. 2735 02:15:14.079 --> 02:15:17.920 But ten thirty five KMYU, we call it five questions 2736 02:15:18.000 --> 02:15:20.239 with Spence. What was that Prima Donna's excuse for not 2737 02:15:20.319 --> 02:15:21.359 coming over to do. 2738 02:15:21.359 --> 02:15:21.960 The show today. 2739 02:15:22.439 --> 02:15:25.720 Yeah, apparently he's got a meeting. Yeah, give me a break, 2740 02:15:25.840 --> 02:15:28.640 a station meeting that. I'm sure that they need Dave 2741 02:15:28.680 --> 02:15:32.840 Fox for the decision making, the planning, the producing. 2742 02:15:33.520 --> 02:15:35.039 I'm sure he's got a bunch of. 2743 02:15:35.199 --> 02:15:37.840 I'm quite sure that they did not need Dave at 2744 02:15:37.840 --> 02:15:39.520 the meeting at all, but I will be on TV 2745 02:15:39.560 --> 02:15:42.199 with Dave tonight. All right, we have a new partner 2746 02:15:42.239 --> 02:15:45.520 on the show. Outlaw Distilling is their name. Excited to 2747 02:15:46.720 --> 02:15:49.680 partner with them. It's Outlaw Distillery. It's a homegrown grain 2748 02:15:49.760 --> 02:15:53.039 to glass, nitty gritty whiskey, vodka, ram and moonshine distillery 2749 02:15:53.119 --> 02:15:54.439 right here on Salt Lake County. 2750 02:15:54.920 --> 02:15:56.439 So definitely check out a tour. 2751 02:15:56.600 --> 02:15:58.439 You can do a tour which takes about an hour, 2752 02:15:58.520 --> 02:16:01.159 hour and a half tour. It's a torn a tasting 2753 02:16:01.680 --> 02:16:04.600 book at outlawdistillery dot com. If you tell them I 2754 02:16:04.680 --> 02:16:06.119 sent you, They're going to hook you up with a 2755 02:16:06.159 --> 02:16:07.680 shot glass as a souvenir. 2756 02:16:07.720 --> 02:16:08.279 How about that. 2757 02:16:08.760 --> 02:16:12.039 So Outlaw Distillery, they opened in twenty fifteen only, is 2758 02:16:12.079 --> 02:16:14.920 the fourth distillery in the Great State of Utah. Deeply 2759 02:16:15.000 --> 02:16:17.359 rooted in Utah history and tradition. Even the name Outlaws 2760 02:16:17.359 --> 02:16:21.159 inspired by legendary characters such as Butch Cassidy and the 2761 02:16:21.199 --> 02:16:23.960 Outlaw Trail, which served as a primary transportation route for 2762 02:16:24.000 --> 02:16:26.920 many of the notorious wild West Outlaws. The vision for 2763 02:16:26.960 --> 02:16:29.279 outlawd Distillery is clear, help show the world that some 2764 02:16:29.319 --> 02:16:32.040 of the best spirits come from the least expected places, 2765 02:16:32.079 --> 02:16:35.079 i e. The state of Utah. So go go book 2766 02:16:35.200 --> 02:16:37.200 excuse me a tour at a tasting with our friends 2767 02:16:37.200 --> 02:16:40.159 at Outlaw Distilling. More information can be found at this 2768 02:16:40.520 --> 02:16:44.040 at Outlawdistillery dot com today, so definitely check it out. 2769 02:16:44.760 --> 02:16:46.799 All right, Porter, you're somewhat. 2770 02:16:46.399 --> 02:16:49.360 Of a nature expert, right, I mean that's kind of 2771 02:16:49.360 --> 02:16:52.000 in your wheelhouse. You like hiking, you like birds, you 2772 02:16:52.120 --> 02:16:56.440 like things that are concerned with nature. Yeah, and animals 2773 02:16:56.440 --> 02:17:00.040 and such, yes and such. Why am I continuing to 2774 02:17:00.079 --> 02:17:03.319 see a debate about one hundred men versus one gorilla 2775 02:17:03.520 --> 02:17:04.040 in a fight? 2776 02:17:04.159 --> 02:17:05.639 I don't know what am I missing? 2777 02:17:05.760 --> 02:17:06.200 I don't know. 2778 02:17:06.159 --> 02:17:11.479 Where that's where that's coming from, but I have seen 2779 02:17:11.479 --> 02:17:12.000 the same thing. 2780 02:17:12.920 --> 02:17:14.319 Do you have a hot take? Do you know who 2781 02:17:14.360 --> 02:17:16.520 would win in this? And it seems like one hundred 2782 02:17:16.559 --> 02:17:18.760 men should be able to handle one gorilla. 2783 02:17:18.840 --> 02:17:22.040 One hundred is a lot and seems kind of unfair. 2784 02:17:23.760 --> 02:17:27.920 And you're right, you should be able to like a 2785 02:17:27.600 --> 02:17:33.559 a full grown silver backed gorilla, whether a mountain or 2786 02:17:33.559 --> 02:17:34.520 a lowland gorilla. 2787 02:17:34.600 --> 02:17:36.719 Let's be clear, there are two different two different species. 2788 02:17:37.239 --> 02:17:40.120 Both of them are like at least ten fifteen times 2789 02:17:40.120 --> 02:17:42.920 stronger than an average man, they got big old K 2790 02:17:43.120 --> 02:17:47.840 nine teeth. But one hundred men, I think you, I 2791 02:17:48.120 --> 02:17:52.319 think you have to first off, which hundred men. Is 2792 02:17:52.399 --> 02:17:57.840 it one hundred men that are like Sean O'Connell's black belts, 2793 02:17:58.000 --> 02:18:01.079 or is it a hundred men that are going to 2794 02:18:01.120 --> 02:18:04.760 be at the whatever that thing is at the Maverick 2795 02:18:04.840 --> 02:18:06.159 Center in a few weeks. 2796 02:18:06.799 --> 02:18:08.719 Oh the alpha chodes or is it a different thing. 2797 02:18:08.879 --> 02:18:10.680 If it's a hundred of those guys, the gorillas have 2798 02:18:10.719 --> 02:18:13.239 a no issue. But if it's one hundred Schan O'Connell's, 2799 02:18:13.719 --> 02:18:17.639 I'm taking oc. So it's it's a hard debate, I guess, 2800 02:18:17.680 --> 02:18:22.000 According to Tara Steinski, who's the President's CEO and Chief 2801 02:18:22.040 --> 02:18:26.440 Scientific Officer for the Dion Fosse Gorilla Fund, because of course, 2802 02:18:27.920 --> 02:18:30.120 she says, a gorilla would come to the fight posting 2803 02:18:30.200 --> 02:18:34.639 more physical strength, much stronger jaw muscles, and thick skin 2804 02:18:34.920 --> 02:18:39.040 that is tough to penetrate. Male gorilla is known as silverbacks, 2805 02:18:39.040 --> 02:18:41.760 can weigh more than four hundred pounds, and says they 2806 02:18:41.760 --> 02:18:43.879 are estimated to be about four to ten times as 2807 02:18:43.879 --> 02:18:46.920 strong as humans. She goes on to say it's an 2808 02:18:46.920 --> 02:18:50.399 issue of sheer numbers and not all the one hundred 2809 02:18:50.399 --> 02:18:52.399 men would walk away alive, but ultimately they should be 2810 02:18:52.399 --> 02:18:53.000 able to handle it. 2811 02:18:53.040 --> 02:18:55.840 There you go, That's exactly what I yeah, what I 2812 02:18:55.920 --> 02:18:59.559 would expect. But yeah, depends on the men there are. 2813 02:18:59.840 --> 02:19:01.760 There are a collection of one hundred men that I 2814 02:19:01.760 --> 02:19:02.719 bet that Gorilla could beat. 2815 02:19:03.040 --> 02:19:05.959 All Right, weird online debates, you people, and they didn't 2816 02:19:05.959 --> 02:19:08.120 need to get a hobby. All right, fun night tonight 2817 02:19:08.159 --> 02:19:10.879 in the NBA and in the NHL, So enjoy some 2818 02:19:10.879 --> 02:19:13.479 playoff action porter what comes our way on a Wednesday 2819 02:19:13.639 --> 02:19:14.399 edition of the show. 2820 02:19:14.559 --> 02:19:18.079 On a Wednesday edition of The Drive, Spence will continue 2821 02:19:18.079 --> 02:19:24.760 the NBA playoff action discussion. Tony Jones stops by the program, 2822 02:19:25.399 --> 02:19:28.600 Chris com Ronnie stops by. Actually on a Wednesday this week, 2823 02:19:28.639 --> 02:19:30.840 we'll have c K and Studio for an entire hour, 2824 02:19:30.920 --> 02:19:36.200 Trevor Sikhima to continue the NFL Draft coverage and reaction, 2825 02:19:36.280 --> 02:19:40.360 and then oh yeah, it's Dave Fox all right on 2826 02:19:40.399 --> 02:19:40.959 a Wednesday. 2827 02:19:41.079 --> 02:19:43.479 Well we'll see about that because he ditched us today. 2828 02:19:43.479 --> 02:19:45.200 But I will be on TV. You know what, maybe 2829 02:19:45.239 --> 02:19:47.000 I won't go do my TV here with Dave tonight 2830 02:19:47.040 --> 02:19:48.440 if he's don't show up. Yeah, if he's going to 2831 02:19:48.680 --> 02:19:50.479 do it, to us. Maybe maybe I'll do it to them. 2832 02:19:50.559 --> 02:19:52.959 Text him right before the show. I should let him 2833 02:19:53.000 --> 02:19:53.760 know you're not going to be there. 2834 02:19:53.799 --> 02:19:56.319 I should, but just in case, tune in to cam 2835 02:19:56.479 --> 02:19:58.520 Yu at ten thirty five to check it out. It's 2836 02:19:58.520 --> 02:20:01.159 called Five Questions with Spence and with that Wheel Saga 2837 02:20:01.239 --> 02:20:04.520 Night Special. Thank you today to Kyle Bonnegert, to Tim McMahon, 2838 02:20:04.559 --> 02:20:06.719 Kaylin Jones, and Sam Bruckhaus for any of the sound 2839 02:20:06.760 --> 02:20:08.840 you may missed from the show today. You can log 2840 02:20:08.840 --> 02:20:12.600 onto the website, which is ESPN seven hundred sports dot com. 2841 02:20:12.639 --> 02:20:14.600 Make sure to download our mobile app and take us 2842 02:20:14.600 --> 02:20:17.000 on the go. The ESPN seven hundred app is available 2843 02:20:17.000 --> 02:20:19.040 in the App Store in the Google play Store. And then, finally, 2844 02:20:19.159 --> 02:20:22.440 for what we do in our space every afternoon for 2845 02:20:22.479 --> 02:20:24.680 four hours, we have a podcast page and if you 2846 02:20:24.799 --> 02:20:26.680 appreciate and like what we do, we ask that the you 2847 02:20:26.719 --> 02:20:29.840 support our podcast page by going to your preferred podcast 2848 02:20:29.879 --> 02:20:33.399 catcher hitting subscribe a rate review all the things they 2849 02:20:33.399 --> 02:20:33.920 ask you to do. 2850 02:20:33.959 --> 02:20:35.719 If you say nice things, give us all the stars. 2851 02:20:35.719 --> 02:20:37.360 It really helps the show. Reporter. 2852 02:20:37.440 --> 02:20:39.479 I'm Spence saying to night and enjoy Tuesday evening. Talk 2853 02:20:39.479 --> 02:20:41.360 to you on a Wednesday drive as always, cann catch 2854 02:20:41.360 --> 02:20:43.639 out right here on ESPN seven hundred