WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.320 --> 00:00:03.839 This is the Poet Speaks, a show all about. 2 00:00:03.640 --> 00:00:08.599 Old tradition, hip hop and cardboard boxes on the Bloc, 3 00:00:08.679 --> 00:00:12.359 Reget Bandolero so Yo heavy metal, punk rock, and La 4 00:00:12.480 --> 00:00:13.560 Junior Hyde pop. 5 00:00:14.480 --> 00:00:17.879 What makes poetry so amazing, so incredible, It is this 6 00:00:18.199 --> 00:00:23.600 absolute fascination and ability to change our lives, the old tradition, 7 00:00:23.920 --> 00:00:25.160 the reason why we speak. 8 00:00:25.839 --> 00:00:37.640 This is the Poet Speaks. Hello, everyone, and welcome back 9 00:00:37.679 --> 00:00:40.640 to the Poet Speaks podcast. Now today we have some 10 00:00:40.840 --> 00:00:43.799 very very special guests here to speak about a new 11 00:00:44.079 --> 00:00:49.320 sonic poetry LP called Muttered Tongue. What is a word 12 00:00:49.520 --> 00:00:52.679 in utter space? There we go. Mutter Tongue crackles in 13 00:00:52.719 --> 00:00:56.759 its exploration of land, language and sound, combining the intensity 14 00:00:56.799 --> 00:01:01.280 of dub poetry with the intricacies of experience mental poetics. 15 00:01:01.439 --> 00:01:05.239 This album is a sonorous soundscape partner of the collection 16 00:01:05.640 --> 00:01:09.799 of the same name from Exile Editions. Everyone, please welcome 17 00:01:09.840 --> 00:01:13.040 to the post Speaks Podcast. The collaborators of this new 18 00:01:13.159 --> 00:01:18.439 exciting project Lillian Allen, Gary Barwin and Gregory Betts. Everyone, 19 00:01:18.480 --> 00:01:20.280 how are we doing today? 20 00:01:20.879 --> 00:01:22.079 Yeah? 21 00:01:22.319 --> 00:01:25.239 Fantastic, Yeah, crackling. 22 00:01:25.879 --> 00:01:33.319 Crackling, there you go, cracking yeah, yeah, absolutely, yeah, absolutely absolutely, 23 00:01:33.640 --> 00:01:36.879 Now everyone kind of to begin today. You know, we'll 24 00:01:36.920 --> 00:01:39.719 go straight into it, tell us, and maybe we'll begin 25 00:01:39.799 --> 00:01:43.359 with you, Gregory, I mean muttered Tongue. Where did you 26 00:01:43.400 --> 00:01:46.159 come with the name? The name alone just is a 27 00:01:46.159 --> 00:01:49.359 tongue twister, but it also it really pulls you in 28 00:01:49.519 --> 00:01:52.400 Muttered tongue. Tell us, where's the name coming from? You know? 29 00:01:52.519 --> 00:01:56.280 To described as crackling with expluation of land, language and sound, 30 00:01:56.760 --> 00:01:59.000 but what is really the seed of this project and 31 00:01:59.040 --> 00:02:01.840 how they grow into an LP and a book? 32 00:02:02.760 --> 00:02:03.359 Thanks so much. 33 00:02:03.439 --> 00:02:06.599 Yeah, the mutter tongue is well, we are the mutterers, 34 00:02:07.040 --> 00:02:10.080 and if you listen to the sound track and the LP, 35 00:02:10.719 --> 00:02:14.319 you will hear us muttering, but muttering strategically. One of 36 00:02:14.319 --> 00:02:18.039 the things that we were touching on in this project 37 00:02:18.719 --> 00:02:22.759 is the idea of mother tongue, right, which is echoed 38 00:02:22.800 --> 00:02:25.280 in the idea of mutter tongue. But we all have 39 00:02:25.319 --> 00:02:29.719 a funny relationship to what would be our ancestral mother tongue, 40 00:02:29.759 --> 00:02:35.120 being somewhat displaced from that, and so we wanted to 41 00:02:35.280 --> 00:02:38.120 evoke the idea of the mother tongue and think through 42 00:02:38.479 --> 00:02:42.360 the relationship that we have to language, but show that 43 00:02:42.400 --> 00:02:46.520 there's been a little bit of breakage in the lineage 44 00:02:46.560 --> 00:02:51.840 that we've inherited. There's something strange about language. There's also 45 00:02:52.639 --> 00:02:55.000 there's something really nice in the mutter, the mutters. That 46 00:02:55.280 --> 00:02:59.840 is that part of speech where it's sound and it's language, 47 00:02:59.879 --> 00:03:02.560 but it's not quite received as language, right, it's not 48 00:03:02.759 --> 00:03:06.520 heard yet. But in some cases it's the way that 49 00:03:06.560 --> 00:03:10.319 we hear our ancestral tongue. When we actually get the 50 00:03:10.400 --> 00:03:13.919 chance to hear it. Know it's language, but it's actually 51 00:03:13.960 --> 00:03:17.479 more sound than meaning at this point, which is a lot, 52 00:03:17.840 --> 00:03:19.639 but it's also something to explore. 53 00:03:19.639 --> 00:03:21.960 It's a subject position we're interested in that export. 54 00:03:22.639 --> 00:03:25.840 That's very fascinating and I want to pass it to you. 55 00:03:25.919 --> 00:03:28.599 Gary, tell me a bit how then, I. 56 00:03:28.560 --> 00:03:32.360 Mean, how does this collaboration come about? You know, all 57 00:03:32.400 --> 00:03:33.759 three of you, and we're going to get into a 58 00:03:33.800 --> 00:03:36.719 little later. All three of you come from similar but 59 00:03:36.800 --> 00:03:41.159 different backgrounds. How did you kind of point find yourselves 60 00:03:41.159 --> 00:03:44.680 in this same space to make this very experimental, poetic 61 00:03:44.840 --> 00:03:47.599 album with all the sonic tell us, Gary, how did 62 00:03:47.639 --> 00:03:49.759 you all? Did y'all know each other? How did we 63 00:03:49.800 --> 00:03:51.360 come across this amazingness? 64 00:03:51.800 --> 00:03:52.360 Yeah? 65 00:03:52.919 --> 00:03:55.439 Yeah, we've known each other for years and known each 66 00:03:55.439 --> 00:04:01.639 other's work works, and I think coming together over or 67 00:04:01.759 --> 00:04:03.879 over sort of similar interests. I mean, interested in the 68 00:04:04.080 --> 00:04:06.240 in the alevant garde and some of the kind of 69 00:04:06.240 --> 00:04:09.479 parallinguistic stuff that Greg was talking about, the noises of 70 00:04:09.560 --> 00:04:13.639 sound poetry and experimentalness, but also the performativity of language. 71 00:04:13.759 --> 00:04:18.680 So that was always something I mean, Lilian has done. 72 00:04:19.000 --> 00:04:20.879 It was as key in the in the creation of 73 00:04:21.199 --> 00:04:25.360 dub poetry, and so that's highly performative and turning turning 74 00:04:25.439 --> 00:04:30.120 music into or turning poetry into kind of performative you know, 75 00:04:30.680 --> 00:04:36.000 near musical uh uh expression. And so and Greg and 76 00:04:36.040 --> 00:04:40.160 I have been have worked in experimental poetics, making making 77 00:04:40.199 --> 00:04:43.319 the sounds, making performativity, and so that really we saw 78 00:04:43.399 --> 00:04:45.959 there was a lot of interesting overlap and also and 79 00:04:46.000 --> 00:04:49.000 then and then combined with with the kind of the 80 00:04:49.519 --> 00:04:52.319 puzzling through what language means, what language means now, what 81 00:04:52.399 --> 00:04:57.560 language means in relationship to identity and place and inheritance 82 00:04:58.319 --> 00:05:01.879 and all of that. So I mean, I think that 83 00:05:02.000 --> 00:05:07.079 thinking about language is something that is performative. 84 00:05:06.639 --> 00:05:09.079 Is embodied that. 85 00:05:10.720 --> 00:05:13.360 Tom Waits I think when he was inducted into the 86 00:05:13.480 --> 00:05:15.879 Songwriters Hall of Fames, that songs are just a really 87 00:05:16.000 --> 00:05:18.360 interesting thing to do with air, and I think we 88 00:05:18.360 --> 00:05:22.040 were just interested in doing something really interesting with air poet, 89 00:05:22.079 --> 00:05:24.240 you know, in terms of poetry, the kind of filling 90 00:05:24.279 --> 00:05:28.560 it with uh embodied performativity, as I said, and with 91 00:05:29.480 --> 00:05:33.079 the kind of range of of of language that we 92 00:05:33.319 --> 00:05:35.639 that we all think about. So it seemed quite natural 93 00:05:35.639 --> 00:05:38.199 to come to come together. So we met at a 94 00:05:38.199 --> 00:05:41.360 at a studio to record. We recorded the LP first, 95 00:05:41.439 --> 00:05:44.480 and so we we had some ideas, we had some texts, 96 00:05:44.879 --> 00:05:49.759 and we also went in and jammed and so and 97 00:05:49.759 --> 00:05:51.959 and it basically like in a very in a very 98 00:05:52.040 --> 00:05:54.360 musical kind of way. I felt like, you know, you 99 00:05:54.480 --> 00:05:56.720 read about Miles Davis or John Coltrane, they have a 100 00:05:56.759 --> 00:05:58.720 little scrap of papers said, Okay, I think this is 101 00:05:58.759 --> 00:06:01.160 going to be the album. You know, here's some little things. 102 00:06:01.240 --> 00:06:05.519 Let's you know, everybody brings their background and then they 103 00:06:06.000 --> 00:06:07.639 make a thing, and which is what we did. 104 00:06:08.279 --> 00:06:12.160 Absolutely Now that sounds like almost the perfect way. You know, 105 00:06:12.279 --> 00:06:16.000 people wish they could create that, you know, just finding 106 00:06:16.360 --> 00:06:19.879 finding ways to collaborate in and just bringing together these 107 00:06:19.879 --> 00:06:22.839 different mediums and just you know the fact that y'all 108 00:06:22.839 --> 00:06:26.079 have such backgrounds together, but you have respect for what 109 00:06:26.240 --> 00:06:29.279 each each and every person does really makes such an 110 00:06:29.279 --> 00:06:33.600 amazing collaboration. Now this brings together what I found interesting 111 00:06:33.800 --> 00:06:40.160 dub poetry, experimental poetics, and sonic experimentation, so that already 112 00:06:40.279 --> 00:06:44.279 is bringing in all different parts of my senses into one. 113 00:06:44.560 --> 00:06:44.759 Right. 114 00:06:45.360 --> 00:06:48.199 So, uh, and Lillian, we'll start with you here. How 115 00:06:48.240 --> 00:06:51.240 did your practice and how did each of your practices 116 00:06:51.319 --> 00:06:55.399 really intersect and influence one another during the makings of 117 00:06:55.439 --> 00:06:59.360 this work? Seeing you're all coming from different modalities, different mediums, 118 00:06:59.519 --> 00:07:02.360 but also very much the same medium, how did that 119 00:07:02.480 --> 00:07:05.800 kind of intersect and influence y'all to make this work? 120 00:07:06.040 --> 00:07:08.360 And what were maybe some of the classes that y'all 121 00:07:08.360 --> 00:07:11.079 had as you're creating this together? Lily, and we can 122 00:07:11.160 --> 00:07:11.639 start with you. 123 00:07:13.480 --> 00:07:19.000 Yeah, well, you know, we are kind of boundary bouncing 124 00:07:19.199 --> 00:07:23.800 and boundary breaking in terms of each of our practice 125 00:07:25.199 --> 00:07:33.000 or range of practice. And uh, we you know, we've 126 00:07:33.079 --> 00:07:38.519 we've sort of worked with language in a way that 127 00:07:38.800 --> 00:07:45.759 is liberating, language being you know, the most malleable art 128 00:07:46.120 --> 00:07:51.399 tools that we could you know, utilize and so also free. 129 00:07:52.079 --> 00:07:59.600 So coming together, we each bring what we had in 130 00:07:59.680 --> 00:08:03.839 terms of uh, evolving from our practices. We have worked 131 00:08:03.839 --> 00:08:08.480 together over the years and tried out a few things 132 00:08:10.040 --> 00:08:13.759 and stayed true to who we we we are. So 133 00:08:14.079 --> 00:08:19.759 what happens is then we create this collective pool of 134 00:08:19.920 --> 00:08:23.879 creativity and artistic work that we kind of you know, 135 00:08:24.120 --> 00:08:27.399 play in if you if you listen to the album, 136 00:08:27.480 --> 00:08:33.200 you see that play is underscored. And as you know 137 00:08:33.320 --> 00:08:38.960 Greg talked about, you know, going from the ancestral you know, 138 00:08:39.080 --> 00:08:43.919 echoings and sounds. You know it's there, it's there and 139 00:08:43.960 --> 00:08:48.039 the air. What what happens before language itself? You know, 140 00:08:48.120 --> 00:08:51.120 how does it get set? You know, we have this agreement, 141 00:08:51.759 --> 00:08:56.360 you know, and it's set, as Clan would say, and 142 00:08:56.679 --> 00:08:59.720 but we know, we have this impulse, we know, and 143 00:08:59.799 --> 00:09:04.039 it's especially we're in this period of time where we're 144 00:09:04.120 --> 00:09:09.360 connecting and we're talking about collaborations. So for me and 145 00:09:09.399 --> 00:09:12.960 for us, it's not just the art. It's it's that 146 00:09:13.039 --> 00:09:17.480 we want to transform this community, we want to transform 147 00:09:17.559 --> 00:09:21.360 the world. We want to say, here are possibilities that 148 00:09:21.399 --> 00:09:25.000 we know we can make and we know exist, and 149 00:09:25.519 --> 00:09:29.840 we're using language and negotiate that in terms of so 150 00:09:29.960 --> 00:09:35.600 in terms of the clashes, because we were all each 151 00:09:35.799 --> 00:09:40.200 I think secure in where we're coming from, it was 152 00:09:40.399 --> 00:09:44.799 more of a flow and a collaboration. If there any 153 00:09:44.919 --> 00:09:49.000 kind of stress. It would be on the administrative part 154 00:09:49.559 --> 00:09:53.440 of all artists. We're all busy and we don't know 155 00:09:53.559 --> 00:09:57.600 that much about contracts and so forth and divving up 156 00:09:57.639 --> 00:10:00.480 that stuff. But in terms of the creative thing, I 157 00:10:00.480 --> 00:10:03.559 think we have hit a groove and we give each 158 00:10:03.559 --> 00:10:08.240 other grace and we give each other space, and we're 159 00:10:08.639 --> 00:10:13.960 all willing to to just you know, take something gives 160 00:10:14.000 --> 00:10:17.960 something and to go after it and make it something 161 00:10:18.000 --> 00:10:21.320 that we each can feel absolutely comfortable with. 162 00:10:22.320 --> 00:10:24.519 You know what, one thing I was thinking about, I 163 00:10:24.559 --> 00:10:27.200 was thinking not a source of conflict, but a source 164 00:10:27.320 --> 00:10:31.120 of it was I found it really revealing. So there 165 00:10:31.120 --> 00:10:34.679 are some pieces that we do that are very much 166 00:10:35.879 --> 00:10:39.679 come out kind of out of your dub practice. And 167 00:10:39.720 --> 00:10:42.879 so it's it's racialized language, and so it's really interesting 168 00:10:42.919 --> 00:10:45.840 to think about, like, Okay, where do I, yeah, I'm 169 00:10:46.320 --> 00:10:49.399 this Jewish guy, I'm I, you know, how do I 170 00:10:49.440 --> 00:10:52.480 relate to that? And in what way can I meaningfully participate? 171 00:10:52.519 --> 00:10:55.480 So it also highlights the nature of language and tradition 172 00:10:55.799 --> 00:10:59.600 and how it's embedded in culture and empower relations for 173 00:11:00.080 --> 00:11:02.759 that matter. So it's like, Okay, cool, I can play 174 00:11:02.799 --> 00:11:04.960 saxophone on that, but I'm not going to do like 175 00:11:05.039 --> 00:11:07.919 I'm not going to like do to make an accent 176 00:11:08.039 --> 00:11:10.399 or I'm not I'm not like, how do I how 177 00:11:10.399 --> 00:11:13.279 do I have? How do I inhabit that world meaningfully 178 00:11:13.360 --> 00:11:16.759 add to it, kind of connect it to say experiences 179 00:11:16.799 --> 00:11:20.279 that say my from my background that I understand about 180 00:11:20.720 --> 00:11:24.240 about language loss, or about power relations or but yet 181 00:11:24.320 --> 00:11:28.559 not you know, but be sensitive and aware. So I 182 00:11:28.559 --> 00:11:30.480 found that just a really interesting thing. So I got 183 00:11:30.519 --> 00:11:32.320 to play saxophone on a bunch of stuff, which is 184 00:11:32.360 --> 00:11:34.519 really great, which doesn't feel like I was. You know, 185 00:11:36.080 --> 00:11:38.120 I got to participate and collaborate, and I got to 186 00:11:38.120 --> 00:11:42.320 remix and add things. But at the same time, it 187 00:11:42.399 --> 00:11:46.120 just highlighted the awareness of our our relationships to tradition 188 00:11:46.360 --> 00:11:48.480 and to the position of language, so that I thought 189 00:11:48.480 --> 00:11:51.240 that that was actually really a revealing part of the collaboration, 190 00:11:51.639 --> 00:11:53.720 not a conflict, but but an awareness. 191 00:11:53.960 --> 00:11:54.559 I think. 192 00:11:56.159 --> 00:11:59.519 Absolutely I kind of want to unpack that a little 193 00:11:59.519 --> 00:12:03.200 bit more. I love that you said there's that cultural awareness. 194 00:12:03.279 --> 00:12:06.360 You know, you you describe yourself a Jewish guy. You 195 00:12:06.399 --> 00:12:09.080 don't want to fake a Jamaican accent. Tell us like 196 00:12:09.320 --> 00:12:11.519 I mean, and anyone can kind of like poke in here, 197 00:12:11.960 --> 00:12:15.200 tell us more about how important that was for you. You know, 198 00:12:15.360 --> 00:12:20.440 collaborations happen, hybridity happens with music with genres and language 199 00:12:20.639 --> 00:12:23.159 all the time since the beginning of time, since people 200 00:12:23.200 --> 00:12:26.639 have travassed, you know, went across the world. Tell us 201 00:12:26.639 --> 00:12:30.000 how important that was that cultural sensitivity and we can 202 00:12:30.080 --> 00:12:33.480 start with anyone. How important was that knowing that dynamic 203 00:12:33.559 --> 00:12:37.240 and like you said, Gary, that power relationship, in those 204 00:12:37.279 --> 00:12:41.080 power dynamics for creating a work like this, How important 205 00:12:41.240 --> 00:12:44.000 was that for you all to keep that at the 206 00:12:44.360 --> 00:12:46.360 you know, at somewhat of the forefront of your mind, 207 00:12:46.720 --> 00:12:49.639 being able to still be respectful and graceful as you're 208 00:12:49.679 --> 00:12:50.600 creating this work. 209 00:12:51.600 --> 00:12:53.559 Well, I just want to on the back to say 210 00:12:54.759 --> 00:12:58.799 that wasn't going to happen in the negative with people 211 00:12:58.840 --> 00:13:04.519 I work with and to know and you know, Gary 212 00:13:04.600 --> 00:13:08.240 and Greg who've worked before, and they've worked in community, 213 00:13:08.320 --> 00:13:13.840 their allies, collaborators, and they understand those dynamics, and they 214 00:13:13.840 --> 00:13:17.279 pay attention to it, and when things have come up 215 00:13:17.320 --> 00:13:21.440 in other contexts, we have just dealt with it. So 216 00:13:21.840 --> 00:13:25.720 I'll let Greg and Gary take away from that. But 217 00:13:26.000 --> 00:13:29.480 in terms of you know, what I stand for and 218 00:13:29.519 --> 00:13:34.279 the work I do, these are highly selected individuals that 219 00:13:34.399 --> 00:13:38.360 I work with and if their mistakes, we'll deal with it. 220 00:13:39.759 --> 00:13:45.600 And it's right. They pay very good attention and and 221 00:13:46.000 --> 00:13:48.919 you know, when I have to bring anything up or 222 00:13:48.960 --> 00:13:52.840 deal with it, it's well received and dealt with it. 223 00:13:54.759 --> 00:13:59.240 So yeah, you're looking at you know, not just something 224 00:13:59.440 --> 00:14:02.200 thrown to I mean creatively in a way, but you're 225 00:14:02.240 --> 00:14:07.679 looking at what underscores the creativity. And you can get 226 00:14:07.679 --> 00:14:14.919 a sense of transformation and open insistence, of kind of 227 00:14:15.240 --> 00:14:19.000 newness and a kind of futuristic look just from the 228 00:14:19.080 --> 00:14:22.320 vibrations of the piece. So that's from the artists and 229 00:14:22.360 --> 00:14:24.759 their stance for sure. 230 00:14:24.840 --> 00:14:26.679 I think one thing that I think I really love 231 00:14:26.720 --> 00:14:29.279 that Earlian. I thought that was very well said. 232 00:14:29.360 --> 00:14:33.559 The The thing about this group of us is that 233 00:14:33.600 --> 00:14:39.919 we've we've formed in live environments, often on stage and 234 00:14:41.360 --> 00:14:47.240 improvising together. It demands a certain kind of attention to 235 00:14:47.440 --> 00:14:52.519 each other, taking room, but making room while you're taking room, 236 00:14:52.600 --> 00:14:54.679 so you have to be able to listen while you're 237 00:14:54.679 --> 00:15:01.360 making sounds, and that kind of interaction it creates. It 238 00:15:01.440 --> 00:15:07.000 creates a really kind of tense moment of meeting. And 239 00:15:07.039 --> 00:15:09.039 one of the things that I've really loved about this 240 00:15:09.120 --> 00:15:13.960 project is actually being able to meet Gary and Lillian 241 00:15:15.279 --> 00:15:19.000 in these open environments where they bring themselves. They're not 242 00:15:19.000 --> 00:15:21.759 trying to shut anything down about who they are in 243 00:15:21.799 --> 00:15:23.559 the backgrounds and where they come from, but we're actually 244 00:15:23.600 --> 00:15:27.840 letting those those histories, our personal histories, our ancestral histories, 245 00:15:28.679 --> 00:15:31.840 come to the fore and meet together in a place 246 00:15:32.000 --> 00:15:35.879 of mutual wonderment and play. As the Lion said earlier, 247 00:15:36.559 --> 00:15:39.320 it's really it's really remarkable to do that, and then 248 00:15:39.360 --> 00:15:41.159 to do that in front of an audience too, right 249 00:15:41.279 --> 00:15:45.240 on stage live, is really exciting. 250 00:15:46.279 --> 00:15:49.559 I love to just think about Sorry, let you go ahead. 251 00:15:50.440 --> 00:15:53.240 No, I'm just saying that, you know, I open up 252 00:15:53.240 --> 00:15:55.879 the space for example with or in Isaac who is 253 00:15:56.320 --> 00:15:58.840 one of the lead in Canadian produce and so on, 254 00:15:59.080 --> 00:16:04.360 and you know that is very special space and very privileged. 255 00:16:04.440 --> 00:16:09.679 So they've earned that. You know, Gary and Greg, that 256 00:16:10.320 --> 00:16:13.360 isn't open you know, you know, you know this is 257 00:16:13.399 --> 00:16:16.559 this is this is kitchen and homie culture. 258 00:16:18.000 --> 00:16:19.919 So studio was amazing that. 259 00:16:21.559 --> 00:16:23.799 You just see some of that. This is this is 260 00:16:23.840 --> 00:16:26.840 not just about production or getting the thing. This is 261 00:16:26.840 --> 00:16:31.879 about building communities, is allyship, This is about transforming the 262 00:16:31.919 --> 00:16:35.799 world and as Gary says, you know, paying attention to 263 00:16:35.840 --> 00:16:39.399 see how do we do that in respectful ways, in 264 00:16:39.759 --> 00:16:42.879 being conscious of where we are in terms of the 265 00:16:42.919 --> 00:16:47.600 power dynamics, because otherwise that's where you have the conflicts 266 00:16:47.600 --> 00:16:50.360 and you can't go any further or you know, the 267 00:16:50.440 --> 00:16:56.799 response to the mistakes are dreadful. So we we're we're 268 00:16:56.840 --> 00:17:00.240 we're we're in a good spot, you know. So we 269 00:17:00.320 --> 00:17:06.240 have done that kind of work among ourselves informally to 270 00:17:06.400 --> 00:17:10.480 be able to get to the spaces we are and 271 00:17:10.519 --> 00:17:12.880 to produce that kind of work that we produced. 272 00:17:13.599 --> 00:17:15.160 And part of I was gonna say, part of the 273 00:17:15.839 --> 00:17:18.359 part of the whole project is exactly about this, which 274 00:17:18.400 --> 00:17:21.440 is language isn't neutral. You come to language, you come 275 00:17:21.480 --> 00:17:27.839 to a specific language, and the language occasions. It's saturated 276 00:17:27.880 --> 00:17:30.880 in culture and history and as I said, in power relations, 277 00:17:31.079 --> 00:17:32.640 all of these things. And that's what part of what 278 00:17:32.640 --> 00:17:35.160 we're exploring. What is mother tongue? How did we come 279 00:17:35.160 --> 00:17:38.880 to our own particular languages? How does language work in society? 280 00:17:39.279 --> 00:17:41.519 How so I mean, well, that's part of what it is, 281 00:17:41.559 --> 00:17:45.920 and that language just isn't this neutral carrier of content. 282 00:17:46.200 --> 00:17:49.279 Language is language is the content and the language moment 283 00:17:49.519 --> 00:17:53.039 is the content, So us working together in all these 284 00:17:53.119 --> 00:17:55.640 different ways kind of like doing this kind of dance 285 00:17:55.720 --> 00:18:00.160 of interactivity through our own how we've come to say, 286 00:18:00.200 --> 00:18:03.079 the English language and the kind of English language and 287 00:18:03.079 --> 00:18:07.799 the kind of language and performative practice, which, as Lilian said, 288 00:18:07.839 --> 00:18:11.799 includes community. Language doesn't exist without community. You don't you know, 289 00:18:11.839 --> 00:18:13.759 you don't start language. You're not on a desert island 290 00:18:13.799 --> 00:18:18.119 by yourself making up language. Language developed through history and 291 00:18:18.200 --> 00:18:20.680 the history of I mean through community and the history 292 00:18:20.720 --> 00:18:22.880 of that community. And that's part of what we were 293 00:18:22.920 --> 00:18:26.200 interested in doing, like exploring it both in terms of 294 00:18:26.240 --> 00:18:28.559 the content of the work, but also in terms of 295 00:18:30.039 --> 00:18:32.599 the practice of the work, like how this evolved, how 296 00:18:32.640 --> 00:18:36.440 we how we work together, how we improvise, how we 297 00:18:37.559 --> 00:18:41.400 create create work. And that's that's a really exciting and 298 00:18:41.599 --> 00:18:45.359 inspiring place to be. Rather than writing a poetry book 299 00:18:45.400 --> 00:18:47.839 that I'm that I'm going to just go and quietly 300 00:18:47.880 --> 00:18:50.799 write my hard one versus that express the oh the 301 00:18:50.839 --> 00:18:54.680 woe that I have here sitting at my desk for. 302 00:18:54.640 --> 00:18:58.000 Sure, for sure now thank you all for that and 303 00:18:58.079 --> 00:19:01.200 kind of moving along here. In addition to language, also 304 00:19:01.240 --> 00:19:05.160 what's really key here is sound. So sound is so 305 00:19:05.680 --> 00:19:09.319 central in terms for mutter tongue, I mean, and not 306 00:19:09.480 --> 00:19:12.640 just as music. But really what I gathered was, it's 307 00:19:12.720 --> 00:19:17.319 the texture, it's the vibrations. Even in the silent places. 308 00:19:17.359 --> 00:19:20.519 Sound is rarely essential, right, because sound is even silence. 309 00:19:20.599 --> 00:19:20.839 Right. 310 00:19:21.200 --> 00:19:23.759 So I'm curious how did you all and we'll start 311 00:19:23.799 --> 00:19:26.599 with you Greg, how did you all approach the recording 312 00:19:26.720 --> 00:19:30.160 process so that this LP could kind of become its 313 00:19:30.200 --> 00:19:33.519 own artistic project, not just a mirror of what you 314 00:19:33.599 --> 00:19:36.440 all had or what was for the text, So kind 315 00:19:36.440 --> 00:19:38.920 of what was the how did you approach the recording 316 00:19:39.000 --> 00:19:41.039 process of this whole thing? And again we'll start with 317 00:19:41.079 --> 00:19:41.519 you Greg. 318 00:19:43.200 --> 00:19:45.720 Yeah, well we started by showing up. 319 00:19:45.920 --> 00:19:49.240 I mean, that's the most important thing is being together 320 00:19:49.319 --> 00:19:52.480 in the room, being together on a stage. There is 321 00:19:52.480 --> 00:19:56.079 a lot of improvisitory material that ended up on the record, 322 00:19:57.440 --> 00:19:59.519 but I think in terms of the sound is absolutely 323 00:20:00.160 --> 00:20:03.400 key point of investigation. Here we've got language, but we 324 00:20:03.480 --> 00:20:06.960 also have that point where sound becomes language. 325 00:20:07.000 --> 00:20:09.640 Right, there's like that that before in us that. 326 00:20:09.680 --> 00:20:14.039 Happens right before sound crosses over and becomes meaningful as language. 327 00:20:14.079 --> 00:20:16.960 We wanted to pull back a little bit from clear 328 00:20:17.079 --> 00:20:22.000 speech and actually think about how clarity happens same with. 329 00:20:22.000 --> 00:20:22.640 Same with music. 330 00:20:22.720 --> 00:20:25.039 Right, there's a there's a there's a line between pure 331 00:20:25.119 --> 00:20:29.880 noise and and and music and the patterns and rhythms 332 00:20:29.920 --> 00:20:33.720 and genres that music established where a little bit before 333 00:20:34.279 --> 00:20:37.480 it descent, it arrives in music, which which creates a 334 00:20:37.480 --> 00:20:42.759 space of openness between before language, before music and when 335 00:20:42.759 --> 00:20:45.599 we when we came together in the studio, we had 336 00:20:45.960 --> 00:20:48.240 we had a number of ideas that we wanted to explore, 337 00:20:49.000 --> 00:20:52.400 but we were doing it on the floor. I mean, 338 00:20:52.400 --> 00:20:55.119 this was this was as Gary was talking about, This 339 00:20:55.359 --> 00:20:59.640 was a meeting and letting and letting this space evolving 340 00:20:59.720 --> 00:21:02.839 creat a moment where we could say, Okay, we've we've 341 00:21:02.880 --> 00:21:07.000 reached what we want to do in this direction. Live 342 00:21:07.119 --> 00:21:14.720 improv stuff happens sometimes, right. Luckily, the two performers that 343 00:21:14.880 --> 00:21:20.000 I was working with here are professionals to the highest degree, 344 00:21:20.240 --> 00:21:23.720 and we were able to get somewhere very far, very quickly. 345 00:21:24.599 --> 00:21:26.839 It's really a remarkable moment when it happens. 346 00:21:27.319 --> 00:21:30.440 Absolutely absolutely anyone else want to jump in there and 347 00:21:30.440 --> 00:21:33.680 tell us about kind of that again, that recording process. 348 00:21:34.720 --> 00:21:39.079 Yeah, well, on the technical side, yeah, we kind of 349 00:21:40.319 --> 00:21:43.680 you know, did a kind of prep in a way 350 00:21:45.359 --> 00:21:50.640 based on what we had, including you know, prepping the producer, 351 00:21:52.319 --> 00:21:55.839 and sort of worked with each other in terms of, 352 00:21:57.000 --> 00:22:02.079 you know, what was sounding good, what we liked. After 353 00:22:02.400 --> 00:22:10.920 that process, I sat with Orient and created the the 354 00:22:10.920 --> 00:22:16.440 the the piece, the string of of the the LP 355 00:22:18.119 --> 00:22:24.559 and then went out to Greg and and Gary and 356 00:22:24.599 --> 00:22:30.359 a lot of the ideas we had didn't quite make 357 00:22:30.400 --> 00:22:32.559 it to the with the with in terms of the 358 00:22:32.640 --> 00:22:37.519 mixing and so forth. Okay, we spent about six hours 359 00:22:37.799 --> 00:22:44.519 mixing and doing it together and then Gary worked on 360 00:22:44.640 --> 00:22:51.559 it bringing those other ideas and Gary's son even and 361 00:22:51.880 --> 00:22:54.480 fed it back and we fed it back. So that's 362 00:22:54.519 --> 00:23:01.400 the kind of you know, process, collaborative process that that 363 00:23:01.640 --> 00:23:06.880 happens with it. So so yeah, so that's in the 364 00:23:06.920 --> 00:23:09.319 technical aspect of it. Where do you go from here 365 00:23:09.519 --> 00:23:11.920 here to there? So if people are listening, they don't 366 00:23:11.920 --> 00:23:13.720 think you just jump in a studio and you know 367 00:23:13.880 --> 00:23:17.839 that happens here is laid out that we are accustomed to. 368 00:23:19.039 --> 00:23:21.880 But I also feel it's like, I don't know, like 369 00:23:21.920 --> 00:23:24.279 an Olympic diver or something, they only get they get 370 00:23:24.319 --> 00:23:24.920 one dive or. 371 00:23:24.920 --> 00:23:26.599 Whatever, like the dive they go. 372 00:23:26.880 --> 00:23:29.200 But all that leads up to the moment where they 373 00:23:29.519 --> 00:23:33.599 jump off and have to work with what's happening. They've 374 00:23:33.640 --> 00:23:37.240 been preparing for that sort of improvisational moment in a way, right, 375 00:23:37.359 --> 00:23:41.440 so that it's all of that stuff has informed that moment, 376 00:23:41.519 --> 00:23:44.319 in that exhilaration of the moment, which is why sometimes 377 00:23:44.319 --> 00:23:46.400 you can walk into a studio and just feel that 378 00:23:46.720 --> 00:23:49.119 you're just ready and you're you know, your nerves are 379 00:23:49.200 --> 00:23:52.880 tingling in the most alert way, and then and then 380 00:23:52.920 --> 00:23:55.240 things come together. But as Lilian said, then we were 381 00:23:55.279 --> 00:23:57.559 able to work with it afterwards. I did some remixing, 382 00:23:57.599 --> 00:24:02.559 added multiple tracks on top, and worked with Or to 383 00:24:02.599 --> 00:24:07.079 add some like awesome, he's astounding producer, bass player, and 384 00:24:07.119 --> 00:24:09.880 he added some just really amazing tracks to it too, 385 00:24:10.480 --> 00:24:15.119 amazing baselines and things. So it's just kind of lovely 386 00:24:15.160 --> 00:24:19.200 mix of improvising, really feeling the moment, but also then 387 00:24:20.279 --> 00:24:22.839 being able to then shape it a little bit afterwards. 388 00:24:22.920 --> 00:24:26.480 So it was, yeah, it was kind of that's a 389 00:24:26.559 --> 00:24:30.640 kind of an exciting process. Is many different modalities of 390 00:24:30.920 --> 00:24:32.440 improvising or of putting it together. 391 00:24:33.200 --> 00:24:37.480 Yeah, I mean we actually basically after the improvisation, you 392 00:24:37.559 --> 00:24:40.799 basically got to create the pieces and the lens and 393 00:24:40.799 --> 00:24:43.359 that's what orin and I sat down and did for 394 00:24:43.400 --> 00:24:47.759 like six hours wow, before we sent the whole stuff 395 00:24:47.839 --> 00:24:51.640 to you guys that later got work time. 396 00:24:52.519 --> 00:24:55.519 Absolutely, and it sounds like it was such a long, 397 00:24:55.680 --> 00:24:59.400 drawn out, stringed out process of just very meticulous step 398 00:24:59.440 --> 00:25:01.920 by step and yeah, before we kind of move on 399 00:25:02.000 --> 00:25:04.359 to the next part. I think, as someone that also 400 00:25:04.400 --> 00:25:08.839 does music too, there's such a like, I guess, they's 401 00:25:08.880 --> 00:25:11.920