Speaker 1: This is the Poet Speaks, a show all about.
Speaker 2: Old tradition, hip hop and cardboard boxes on the Bloc,
Speaker 2: Reget Bandolero so Yo heavy metal, punk rock, and La
Speaker 2: Junior Hyde pop.
Speaker 3: What makes poetry so amazing, so incredible, It is this
Speaker 3: absolute fascination and ability to change our lives, the old tradition,
Speaker 3: the reason why we speak.
Speaker 1: This is the Poet Speaks. Hello, everyone, and welcome back
Speaker 1: to the Poet Speaks podcast. Now today we have some
Speaker 1: very very special guests here to speak about a new
Speaker 1: sonic poetry LP called Muttered Tongue. What is a word
Speaker 1: in utter space? There we go. Mutter Tongue crackles in
Speaker 1: its exploration of land, language and sound, combining the intensity
Speaker 1: of dub poetry with the intricacies of experience mental poetics.
Speaker 1: This album is a sonorous soundscape partner of the collection
Speaker 1: of the same name from Exile Editions. Everyone, please welcome
Speaker 1: to the post Speaks Podcast. The collaborators of this new
Speaker 1: exciting project Lillian Allen, Gary Barwin and Gregory Betts. Everyone,
Speaker 1: how are we doing today?
Speaker 2: Yeah?
Speaker 4: Fantastic, Yeah, crackling.
Speaker 1: Crackling, there you go, cracking yeah, yeah, absolutely, yeah, absolutely absolutely,
Speaker 1: Now everyone kind of to begin today. You know, we'll
Speaker 1: go straight into it, tell us, and maybe we'll begin
Speaker 1: with you, Gregory, I mean muttered Tongue. Where did you
Speaker 1: come with the name? The name alone just is a
Speaker 1: tongue twister, but it also it really pulls you in
Speaker 1: Muttered tongue. Tell us, where's the name coming from? You know?
Speaker 1: To described as crackling with expluation of land, language and sound,
Speaker 1: but what is really the seed of this project and
Speaker 1: how they grow into an LP and a book?
Speaker 5: Thanks so much.
Speaker 6: Yeah, the mutter tongue is well, we are the mutterers,
Speaker 6: and if you listen to the sound track and the LP,
Speaker 6: you will hear us muttering, but muttering strategically. One of
Speaker 6: the things that we were touching on in this project
Speaker 6: is the idea of mother tongue, right, which is echoed
Speaker 6: in the idea of mutter tongue. But we all have
Speaker 6: a funny relationship to what would be our ancestral mother tongue,
Speaker 6: being somewhat displaced from that, and so we wanted to
Speaker 6: evoke the idea of the mother tongue and think through
Speaker 6: the relationship that we have to language, but show that
Speaker 6: there's been a little bit of breakage in the lineage
Speaker 6: that we've inherited. There's something strange about language. There's also
Speaker 6: there's something really nice in the mutter, the mutters. That
Speaker 6: is that part of speech where it's sound and it's language,
Speaker 6: but it's not quite received as language, right, it's not
Speaker 6: heard yet. But in some cases it's the way that
Speaker 6: we hear our ancestral tongue. When we actually get the
Speaker 6: chance to hear it. Know it's language, but it's actually
Speaker 6: more sound than meaning at this point, which is a lot,
Speaker 6: but it's also something to explore.
Speaker 5: It's a subject position we're interested in that export.
Speaker 1: That's very fascinating and I want to pass it to you.
Speaker 7: Gary, tell me a bit how then, I.
Speaker 1: Mean, how does this collaboration come about? You know, all
Speaker 1: three of you, and we're going to get into a
Speaker 1: little later. All three of you come from similar but
Speaker 1: different backgrounds. How did you kind of point find yourselves
Speaker 1: in this same space to make this very experimental, poetic
Speaker 1: album with all the sonic tell us, Gary, how did
Speaker 1: you all? Did y'all know each other? How did we
Speaker 1: come across this amazingness?
Speaker 4: Yeah?
Speaker 8: Yeah, we've known each other for years and known each
Speaker 8: other's work works, and I think coming together over or
Speaker 8: over sort of similar interests. I mean, interested in the
Speaker 8: in the alevant garde and some of the kind of
Speaker 8: parallinguistic stuff that Greg was talking about, the noises of
Speaker 8: sound poetry and experimentalness, but also the performativity of language.
Speaker 8: So that was always something I mean, Lilian has done.
Speaker 8: It was as key in the in the creation of
Speaker 8: dub poetry, and so that's highly performative and turning turning
Speaker 8: music into or turning poetry into kind of performative you know,
Speaker 8: near musical uh uh expression. And so and Greg and
Speaker 8: I have been have worked in experimental poetics, making making
Speaker 8: the sounds, making performativity, and so that really we saw
Speaker 8: there was a lot of interesting overlap and also and
Speaker 8: then and then combined with with the kind of the
Speaker 8: puzzling through what language means, what language means now, what
Speaker 8: language means in relationship to identity and place and inheritance
Speaker 8: and all of that. So I mean, I think that
Speaker 8: thinking about language is something that is performative.
Speaker 4: Is embodied that.
Speaker 8: Tom Waits I think when he was inducted into the
Speaker 8: Songwriters Hall of Fames, that songs are just a really
Speaker 8: interesting thing to do with air, and I think we
Speaker 8: were just interested in doing something really interesting with air poet,
Speaker 8: you know, in terms of poetry, the kind of filling
Speaker 8: it with uh embodied performativity, as I said, and with
Speaker 8: the kind of range of of of language that we
Speaker 8: that we all think about. So it seemed quite natural
Speaker 8: to come to come together. So we met at a
Speaker 8: at a studio to record. We recorded the LP first,
Speaker 8: and so we we had some ideas, we had some texts,
Speaker 8: and we also went in and jammed and so and
Speaker 8: and it basically like in a very in a very
Speaker 8: musical kind of way. I felt like, you know, you
Speaker 8: read about Miles Davis or John Coltrane, they have a
Speaker 8: little scrap of papers said, Okay, I think this is
Speaker 8: going to be the album. You know, here's some little things.
Speaker 8: Let's you know, everybody brings their background and then they
Speaker 8: make a thing, and which is what we did.
Speaker 1: Absolutely Now that sounds like almost the perfect way. You know,
Speaker 1: people wish they could create that, you know, just finding
Speaker 1: finding ways to collaborate in and just bringing together these
Speaker 1: different mediums and just you know the fact that y'all
Speaker 1: have such backgrounds together, but you have respect for what
Speaker 1: each each and every person does really makes such an
Speaker 1: amazing collaboration. Now this brings together what I found interesting
Speaker 1: dub poetry, experimental poetics, and sonic experimentation, so that already
Speaker 1: is bringing in all different parts of my senses into one.
Speaker 2: Right.
Speaker 1: So, uh, and Lillian, we'll start with you here. How
Speaker 1: did your practice and how did each of your practices
Speaker 1: really intersect and influence one another during the makings of
Speaker 1: this work? Seeing you're all coming from different modalities, different mediums,
Speaker 1: but also very much the same medium, how did that
Speaker 1: kind of intersect and influence y'all to make this work?
Speaker 1: And what were maybe some of the classes that y'all
Speaker 1: had as you're creating this together? Lily, and we can
Speaker 1: start with you.
Speaker 2: Yeah, well, you know, we are kind of boundary bouncing
Speaker 2: and boundary breaking in terms of each of our practice
Speaker 2: or range of practice. And uh, we you know, we've
Speaker 2: we've sort of worked with language in a way that
Speaker 2: is liberating, language being you know, the most malleable art
Speaker 2: tools that we could you know, utilize and so also free.
Speaker 2: So coming together, we each bring what we had in
Speaker 2: terms of uh, evolving from our practices. We have worked
Speaker 2: together over the years and tried out a few things
Speaker 2: and stayed true to who we we we are. So
Speaker 2: what happens is then we create this collective pool of
Speaker 2: creativity and artistic work that we kind of you know,
Speaker 2: play in if you if you listen to the album,
Speaker 2: you see that play is underscored. And as you know
Speaker 2: Greg talked about, you know, going from the ancestral you know,
Speaker 2: echoings and sounds. You know it's there, it's there and
Speaker 2: the air. What what happens before language itself? You know,
Speaker 2: how does it get set? You know, we have this agreement,
Speaker 2: you know, and it's set, as Clan would say, and
Speaker 2: but we know, we have this impulse, we know, and
Speaker 2: it's especially we're in this period of time where we're
Speaker 2: connecting and we're talking about collaborations. So for me and
Speaker 2: for us, it's not just the art. It's it's that
Speaker 2: we want to transform this community, we want to transform
Speaker 2: the world. We want to say, here are possibilities that
Speaker 2: we know we can make and we know exist, and
Speaker 2: we're using language and negotiate that in terms of so
Speaker 2: in terms of the clashes, because we were all each
Speaker 2: I think secure in where we're coming from, it was
Speaker 2: more of a flow and a collaboration. If there any
Speaker 2: kind of stress. It would be on the administrative part
Speaker 2: of all artists. We're all busy and we don't know
Speaker 2: that much about contracts and so forth and divving up
Speaker 2: that stuff. But in terms of the creative thing, I
Speaker 2: think we have hit a groove and we give each
Speaker 2: other grace and we give each other space, and we're
Speaker 2: all willing to to just you know, take something gives
Speaker 2: something and to go after it and make it something
Speaker 2: that we each can feel absolutely comfortable with.
Speaker 8: You know what, one thing I was thinking about, I
Speaker 8: was thinking not a source of conflict, but a source
Speaker 8: of it was I found it really revealing. So there
Speaker 8: are some pieces that we do that are very much
Speaker 8: come out kind of out of your dub practice. And
Speaker 8: so it's it's racialized language, and so it's really interesting
Speaker 8: to think about, like, Okay, where do I, yeah, I'm
Speaker 8: this Jewish guy, I'm I, you know, how do I
Speaker 8: relate to that? And in what way can I meaningfully participate?
Speaker 8: So it also highlights the nature of language and tradition
Speaker 8: and how it's embedded in culture and empower relations for
Speaker 8: that matter. So it's like, Okay, cool, I can play
Speaker 8: saxophone on that, but I'm not going to do like
Speaker 8: I'm not going to like do to make an accent
Speaker 8: or I'm not I'm not like, how do I how
Speaker 8: do I have? How do I inhabit that world meaningfully
Speaker 8: add to it, kind of connect it to say experiences
Speaker 8: that say my from my background that I understand about
Speaker 8: about language loss, or about power relations or but yet
Speaker 8: not you know, but be sensitive and aware. So I
Speaker 8: found that just a really interesting thing. So I got
Speaker 8: to play saxophone on a bunch of stuff, which is
Speaker 8: really great, which doesn't feel like I was. You know,
Speaker 8: I got to participate and collaborate, and I got to
Speaker 8: remix and add things. But at the same time, it
Speaker 8: just highlighted the awareness of our our relationships to tradition
Speaker 8: and to the position of language, so that I thought
Speaker 8: that that was actually really a revealing part of the collaboration,
Speaker 8: not a conflict, but but an awareness.
Speaker 4: I think.
Speaker 1: Absolutely I kind of want to unpack that a little
Speaker 1: bit more. I love that you said there's that cultural awareness.
Speaker 1: You know, you you describe yourself a Jewish guy. You
Speaker 1: don't want to fake a Jamaican accent. Tell us like
Speaker 1: I mean, and anyone can kind of like poke in here,
Speaker 1: tell us more about how important that was for you. You know,
Speaker 1: collaborations happen, hybridity happens with music with genres and language
Speaker 1: all the time since the beginning of time, since people
Speaker 1: have travassed, you know, went across the world. Tell us
Speaker 1: how important that was that cultural sensitivity and we can
Speaker 1: start with anyone. How important was that knowing that dynamic
Speaker 1: and like you said, Gary, that power relationship, in those
Speaker 1: power dynamics for creating a work like this, How important
Speaker 1: was that for you all to keep that at the
Speaker 1: you know, at somewhat of the forefront of your mind,
Speaker 1: being able to still be respectful and graceful as you're
Speaker 1: creating this work.
Speaker 2: Well, I just want to on the back to say
Speaker 2: that wasn't going to happen in the negative with people
Speaker 2: I work with and to know and you know, Gary
Speaker 2: and Greg who've worked before, and they've worked in community,
Speaker 2: their allies, collaborators, and they understand those dynamics, and they
Speaker 2: pay attention to it, and when things have come up
Speaker 2: in other contexts, we have just dealt with it. So
Speaker 2: I'll let Greg and Gary take away from that. But
Speaker 2: in terms of you know, what I stand for and
Speaker 2: the work I do, these are highly selected individuals that
Speaker 2: I work with and if their mistakes, we'll deal with it.
Speaker 2: And it's right. They pay very good attention and and
Speaker 2: you know, when I have to bring anything up or
Speaker 2: deal with it, it's well received and dealt with it.
Speaker 2: So yeah, you're looking at you know, not just something
Speaker 2: thrown to I mean creatively in a way, but you're
Speaker 2: looking at what underscores the creativity. And you can get
Speaker 2: a sense of transformation and open insistence, of kind of
Speaker 2: newness and a kind of futuristic look just from the
Speaker 2: vibrations of the piece. So that's from the artists and
Speaker 2: their stance for sure.
Speaker 5: I think one thing that I think I really love
Speaker 5: that Earlian. I thought that was very well said.
Speaker 6: The The thing about this group of us is that
Speaker 6: we've we've formed in live environments, often on stage and
Speaker 6: improvising together. It demands a certain kind of attention to
Speaker 6: each other, taking room, but making room while you're taking room,
Speaker 6: so you have to be able to listen while you're
Speaker 6: making sounds, and that kind of interaction it creates. It
Speaker 6: creates a really kind of tense moment of meeting. And
Speaker 6: one of the things that I've really loved about this
Speaker 6: project is actually being able to meet Gary and Lillian
Speaker 6: in these open environments where they bring themselves. They're not
Speaker 6: trying to shut anything down about who they are in
Speaker 6: the backgrounds and where they come from, but we're actually
Speaker 6: letting those those histories, our personal histories, our ancestral histories,
Speaker 6: come to the fore and meet together in a place
Speaker 6: of mutual wonderment and play. As the Lion said earlier,
Speaker 6: it's really it's really remarkable to do that, and then
Speaker 6: to do that in front of an audience too, right
Speaker 6: on stage live, is really exciting.
Speaker 4: I love to just think about Sorry, let you go ahead.
Speaker 2: No, I'm just saying that, you know, I open up
Speaker 2: the space for example with or in Isaac who is
Speaker 2: one of the lead in Canadian produce and so on,
Speaker 2: and you know that is very special space and very privileged.
Speaker 2: So they've earned that. You know, Gary and Greg, that
Speaker 2: isn't open you know, you know, you know this is
Speaker 2: this is this is kitchen and homie culture.
Speaker 5: So studio was amazing that.
Speaker 2: You just see some of that. This is this is
Speaker 2: not just about production or getting the thing. This is
Speaker 2: about building communities, is allyship, This is about transforming the
Speaker 2: world and as Gary says, you know, paying attention to
Speaker 2: see how do we do that in respectful ways, in
Speaker 2: being conscious of where we are in terms of the
Speaker 2: power dynamics, because otherwise that's where you have the conflicts
Speaker 2: and you can't go any further or you know, the
Speaker 2: response to the mistakes are dreadful. So we we're we're
Speaker 2: we're we're in a good spot, you know. So we
Speaker 2: have done that kind of work among ourselves informally to
Speaker 2: be able to get to the spaces we are and
Speaker 2: to produce that kind of work that we produced.
Speaker 8: And part of I was gonna say, part of the
Speaker 8: part of the whole project is exactly about this, which
Speaker 8: is language isn't neutral. You come to language, you come
Speaker 8: to a specific language, and the language occasions. It's saturated
Speaker 8: in culture and history and as I said, in power relations,
Speaker 8: all of these things. And that's what part of what
Speaker 8: we're exploring. What is mother tongue? How did we come
Speaker 8: to our own particular languages? How does language work in society?
Speaker 8: How so I mean, well, that's part of what it is,
Speaker 8: and that language just isn't this neutral carrier of content.
Speaker 8: Language is language is the content and the language moment
Speaker 8: is the content, So us working together in all these
Speaker 8: different ways kind of like doing this kind of dance
Speaker 8: of interactivity through our own how we've come to say,
Speaker 8: the English language and the kind of English language and
Speaker 8: the kind of language and performative practice, which, as Lilian said,
Speaker 8: includes community. Language doesn't exist without community. You don't you know,
Speaker 8: you don't start language. You're not on a desert island
Speaker 8: by yourself making up language. Language developed through history and
Speaker 8: the history of I mean through community and the history
Speaker 8: of that community. And that's part of what we were
Speaker 8: interested in doing, like exploring it both in terms of
Speaker 8: the content of the work, but also in terms of
Speaker 8: the practice of the work, like how this evolved, how
Speaker 8: we how we work together, how we improvise, how we
Speaker 8: create create work. And that's that's a really exciting and
Speaker 8: inspiring place to be. Rather than writing a poetry book
Speaker 8: that I'm that I'm going to just go and quietly
Speaker 8: write my hard one versus that express the oh the
Speaker 8: woe that I have here sitting at my desk for.
Speaker 1: Sure, for sure now thank you all for that and
Speaker 1: kind of moving along here. In addition to language, also
Speaker 1: what's really key here is sound. So sound is so
Speaker 1: central in terms for mutter tongue, I mean, and not
Speaker 1: just as music. But really what I gathered was, it's
Speaker 1: the texture, it's the vibrations. Even in the silent places.
Speaker 1: Sound is rarely essential, right, because sound is even silence.
Speaker 7: Right.
Speaker 1: So I'm curious how did you all and we'll start
Speaker 1: with you Greg, how did you all approach the recording
Speaker 1: process so that this LP could kind of become its
Speaker 1: own artistic project, not just a mirror of what you
Speaker 1: all had or what was for the text, So kind
Speaker 1: of what was the how did you approach the recording
Speaker 1: process of this whole thing? And again we'll start with
Speaker 1: you Greg.
Speaker 5: Yeah, well we started by showing up.
Speaker 6: I mean, that's the most important thing is being together
Speaker 6: in the room, being together on a stage. There is
Speaker 6: a lot of improvisitory material that ended up on the record,
Speaker 6: but I think in terms of the sound is absolutely
Speaker 6: key point of investigation. Here we've got language, but we
Speaker 6: also have that point where sound becomes language.
Speaker 5: Right, there's like that that before in us that.
Speaker 6: Happens right before sound crosses over and becomes meaningful as language.
Speaker 6: We wanted to pull back a little bit from clear
Speaker 6: speech and actually think about how clarity happens same with.
Speaker 5: Same with music.
Speaker 6: Right, there's a there's a there's a line between pure
Speaker 6: noise and and and music and the patterns and rhythms
Speaker 6: and genres that music established where a little bit before
Speaker 6: it descent, it arrives in music, which which creates a
Speaker 6: space of openness between before language, before music and when
Speaker 6: we when we came together in the studio, we had
Speaker 6: we had a number of ideas that we wanted to explore,
Speaker 6: but we were doing it on the floor. I mean,
Speaker 6: this was this was as Gary was talking about, This
Speaker 6: was a meeting and letting and letting this space evolving
Speaker 6: creat a moment where we could say, Okay, we've we've
Speaker 6: reached what we want to do in this direction. Live
Speaker 6: improv stuff happens sometimes, right. Luckily, the two performers that
Speaker 6: I was working with here are professionals to the highest degree,
Speaker 6: and we were able to get somewhere very far, very quickly.
Speaker 5: It's really a remarkable moment when it happens.
Speaker 1: Absolutely absolutely anyone else want to jump in there and
Speaker 1: tell us about kind of that again, that recording process.
Speaker 2: Yeah, well, on the technical side, yeah, we kind of
Speaker 2: you know, did a kind of prep in a way
Speaker 2: based on what we had, including you know, prepping the producer,
Speaker 2: and sort of worked with each other in terms of,
Speaker 2: you know, what was sounding good, what we liked. After
Speaker 2: that process, I sat with Orient and created the the
Speaker 2: the the piece, the string of of the the LP
Speaker 2: and then went out to Greg and and Gary and
Speaker 2: a lot of the ideas we had didn't quite make
Speaker 2: it to the with the with in terms of the
Speaker 2: mixing and so forth. Okay, we spent about six hours
Speaker 2: mixing and doing it together and then Gary worked on
Speaker 2: it bringing those other ideas and Gary's son even and
Speaker 2: fed it back and we fed it back. So that's
Speaker 2: the kind of you know, process, collaborative process that that
Speaker 2: happens with it. So so yeah, so that's in the
Speaker 2: technical aspect of it. Where do you go from here
Speaker 2: here to there? So if people are listening, they don't
Speaker 2: think you just jump in a studio and you know
Speaker 2: that happens here is laid out that we are accustomed to.
Speaker 8: But I also feel it's like, I don't know, like
Speaker 8: an Olympic diver or something, they only get they get
Speaker 8: one dive or.
Speaker 4: Whatever, like the dive they go.
Speaker 8: But all that leads up to the moment where they
Speaker 8: jump off and have to work with what's happening. They've
Speaker 8: been preparing for that sort of improvisational moment in a way, right,
Speaker 8: so that it's all of that stuff has informed that moment,
Speaker 8: in that exhilaration of the moment, which is why sometimes
Speaker 8: you can walk into a studio and just feel that
Speaker 8: you're just ready and you're you know, your nerves are
Speaker 8: tingling in the most alert way, and then and then
Speaker 8: things come together. But as Lilian said, then we were
Speaker 8: able to work with it afterwards. I did some remixing,
Speaker 8: added multiple tracks on top, and worked with Or to
Speaker 8: add some like awesome, he's astounding producer, bass player, and
Speaker 8: he added some just really amazing tracks to it too,
Speaker 8: amazing baselines and things. So it's just kind of lovely
Speaker 8: mix of improvising, really feeling the moment, but also then
Speaker 8: being able to then shape it a little bit afterwards.
Speaker 8: So it was, yeah, it was kind of that's a
Speaker 8: kind of an exciting process. Is many different modalities of
Speaker 8: improvising or of putting it together.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean we actually basically after the improvisation, you
Speaker 2: basically got to create the pieces and the lens and
Speaker 2: that's what orin and I sat down and did for
Speaker 2: like six hours wow, before we sent the whole stuff
Speaker 2: to you guys that later got work time.
Speaker 1: Absolutely, and it sounds like it was such a long,
Speaker 1: drawn out, stringed out process of just very meticulous step
Speaker 1: by step and yeah, before we kind of move on
Speaker 1: to the next part. I think, as someone that also
Speaker 1: does music too, there's such a like, I guess, they's
Speaker 1: such a part of what we do. That's the creative aspect,
Speaker 1: that is, so that's what you live for. But I
Speaker 1: almost want to say probably twenty percent is the creative aspect.
Speaker 1: The other eighty percent is the business side of things
Speaker 1: at times? How did y'all, as you all three of you,
Speaker 1: you seem like very creative people, how did you kind
Speaker 1: of you know, someone had mentioned it earlier, the administration side,
Speaker 1: the business side, the crossing, the t's dotting, the i's
Speaker 1: How was that bringing that together with such an experimental
Speaker 1: but huge project that you put so much effort creativity into,
Speaker 1: and anyone can anyone can jump in there.
Speaker 8: Well, I think that the whole process is about collaboration
Speaker 8: and how the music and the text and the improvising
Speaker 8: is about how we work together.
Speaker 4: But similarly, how we were like it. I think everything
Speaker 4: is a model of what's possible.
Speaker 8: So how we work together, how we organize things, who
Speaker 8: does want how we defer to other people who have
Speaker 8: to various people who have expertise or have you know,
Speaker 8: particular particular opinions or a particular way that they'd like
Speaker 8: to do things.
Speaker 4: That's part of the whole process.
Speaker 8: It's not just we go in, we create that, we
Speaker 8: create the tracks, and then we walk away and say, Okay,
Speaker 8: that's we Actually, I think part of the process and
Speaker 8: that's something that's satisfying working with collaborators is being able
Speaker 8: to the depth of sensitive collaboration goes all the way through,
Speaker 8: including like Lilian would say, have you guys read this contract?
Speaker 8: Have you ever done this before? I actually no, We've
Speaker 8: never done this before. We have no idea, So like
Speaker 8: that kind of like for whatever that kind of stuff
Speaker 8: or we're getting like or like some audio stuff where
Speaker 8: I'm like, I'm approving some of the tracks, the kind.
Speaker 4: Of the audio quality in terms of the reproduction.
Speaker 8: Like so that I've caught expertise and various people have
Speaker 8: different we have a lot of expertise in different ways,
Speaker 8: and so working together that I mean that's that's fun
Speaker 8: and and and inspiring that we can come together to
Speaker 8: make this happen.
Speaker 6: We got to work with two different publishing outfits through this.
Speaker 6: I mean there's the The Exile, which has done the book,
Speaker 6: and then the Siron Recordings, which has done the record,
Speaker 6: And so there was a lot of different different dynamics
Speaker 6: that came into play when we're dealing with these two groups,
Speaker 6: because they've got very different approaches and very different ethos.
Speaker 6: It was it was amazing to me that they never
Speaker 6: came into conflict even though they're doing very different things,
Speaker 6: that they were able to recognize the uniqueness of this
Speaker 6: project that has a book and it has a record
Speaker 6: done by two different companies, and there's a synergy there
Speaker 6: that's that feeds into the excitement for both projects. In
Speaker 6: other words, at the when the when we were doing
Speaker 6: the book launch, they were promoting the record, and at
Speaker 6: the could launch they were quoting.
Speaker 5: The book and happy to do something.
Speaker 6: It's funny to me because when we originally started working
Speaker 6: on this, we approached it as a record and we
Speaker 6: were we knew we were going to have liner notes
Speaker 6: because we're writers, and there was a written quality to
Speaker 6: what we were doing. But that liner notes grew and
Speaker 6: grew and that and it became the standalone book called
Speaker 6: mother Tome.
Speaker 2: And then just sort of go back to the business
Speaker 2: side again and I, you know, to bring us back.
Speaker 2: So for example, the recording right in, the best quality
Speaker 2: recording you can get in Canada with you know, with
Speaker 2: my mind or in you know, or in we basically
Speaker 2: worked with or in and in or in studio without
Speaker 2: a financial cost to us. Yeah, it's it's it's it's
Speaker 2: it's like a trade of friendship. You know, I work
Speaker 2: with or in figures from he was a youth, et cetera.
Speaker 2: So that's the kind of thing that is in the album.
Speaker 2: It hidden resources and hidden and I wanted to point
Speaker 2: that out because that is a black community contribution. Yeah,
Speaker 2: that's really important that that grounded the entire project and
Speaker 2: even the idea that you know, let's do this album
Speaker 2: was because Orn was there and and and so it's
Speaker 2: sprung from there and as great kind of outline.
Speaker 8: How you know, that's interesting, Leanne when I think about
Speaker 8: it now, there's I certainly have learned learned some things
Speaker 8: about like black community things from from well your practice
Speaker 8: as a as a always but also in this project.
Speaker 8: But I also see that as part of like the
Speaker 8: avant garde is also kind of can be kind of
Speaker 8: a gift community space where the reason things are possible
Speaker 8: are because people are generous and are part of a community.
Speaker 4: And that that that is something Actually.
Speaker 8: I hadn't ever thought of that till you, till you
Speaker 8: were speaking about that, that it wouldn't have been that
Speaker 8: many things are not possible except that people want to
Speaker 8: make them so and support their own community like they're so.
Speaker 8: Absolutely I see. And it's a tremendous gift that Orrin,
Speaker 8: who is you know, a major producer, was was able
Speaker 8: to gift his studio and his expertise. But I just see,
Speaker 8: I just see a lot of this isn't a good,
Speaker 8: profoundly not capitalistic project, you know. So it will sell
Speaker 8: tens of millions of copies, just look look out, Taylor Swift.
Speaker 8: But just in terms of the spirit of it, I mean,
Speaker 8: in terms of how we can you know, contribute and
Speaker 8: work in community and to support it in those ways.
Speaker 1: Absolutely absolutely no, such a beautiful, beautiful statements to being
Speaker 1: able to witness that is such an amazing thing. So
Speaker 1: Lillian as poet Laurette of Toronto and a pioneer of
Speaker 1: dub poetry. Tell me, how do you see Mother Tongue
Speaker 1: continuing or breaking open maybe the traditions of spoken and
Speaker 1: sonic poetics.
Speaker 2: Hey, well, first of all, bam, bam bam. First of all,
Speaker 2: you know, the poetry for me is the literary side
Speaker 2: of the political activism. So my life is about transformation, right,
Speaker 2: So as I work with Gary and Greg, my hope
Speaker 2: is that it will usher in an era of collaboration,
Speaker 2: cross cultural collaboration with allies and and that because when
Speaker 2: my first came out, Revolutionary Tea Party, if you look,
Speaker 2: it was a collaborative thing. And after that, Before that,
Speaker 2: there's none or maybe one or two people collaborating in
Speaker 2: the music environment. But after that people started to collaborate
Speaker 2: and work together and record together. And this is actually
Speaker 2: my hope. I haven't spoken to Gary and Greg about it,
Speaker 2: but that's my hope that it will open up that
Speaker 2: era where people can start now working across cultural lines, working,
Speaker 2: you know, as I say, with allies, or trying it out,
Speaker 2: risking it when it feels safe to do that. You know,
Speaker 2: I forget your question, Oh where where it will? Where
Speaker 2: it will go? So asserting that possibility and showing that
Speaker 2: that's possible. I've gotten so much good reaction from this book.
Speaker 2: It passed on to students in the Stopped Me All
Speaker 2: the Time vote, from the conversation, the trialogue, and they
Speaker 2: haven't even yet listened to the recording. So I think
Speaker 2: they're going to be blown when they get to the recording.
Speaker 2: So you know, it cleared a new space. I had
Speaker 2: some of the older Canadian poets, because you know, I've
Speaker 2: got the sage in Canadian poets who came to our
Speaker 2: launch and you know they made a point to phone
Speaker 2: me up and to tell me how this, you know,
Speaker 2: opened up a new state, was moving. It was you know,
Speaker 2: important to them, and you know, it's the best thing
Speaker 2: that they did. They were so glad they came out,
Speaker 2: and just a lot of good feeling. And I think
Speaker 2: it's it speaks to years and years and years of
Speaker 2: the work that we've done. I mean the gravity of
Speaker 2: it and also the visionary sensibility and ideas that we
Speaker 2: bring to it, that there's something out there, there's something
Speaker 2: we're asserting that we need to swim into, and it's
Speaker 2: you know, we're pulling things. It's menu you know, we
Speaker 2: don't care about the meal. Yet we're just swimming out there.
Speaker 2: We're swimming away from, you know, whatever is holding us down.
Speaker 2: So there's something beyond language. There's something before it, and
Speaker 2: there's something beyond it. And we're saying, you know, we
Speaker 2: have disagreement in society what language is and what registers
Speaker 2: different registers, and what it means. We're saying, you know,
Speaker 2: you know, that's all tied to social stratus and educational
Speaker 2: background and cultures, and we want to break that up,
Speaker 2: break into that, break that up as part of how
Speaker 2: we want transform the world. As Gary was saying, how
Speaker 2: we want to open up the space for us to meet.
Speaker 2: We are rebels and basically but we're rebels in our
Speaker 2: own way is going on, and major transformation don't happen,
Speaker 2: you know, societal transformation in just one community. There is
Speaker 2: a space where the collaboration happens, and and that's this
Speaker 2: is this is a kind of creative space I'm trying
Speaker 2: to create and I think, you know, this is a space.
Speaker 2: This is a space, and we're just working with it
Speaker 2: and where we will go it's on our we're creative people.
Speaker 2: So we have faith that language or voices can open
Speaker 2: up these spaces and do it in a beautiful way
Speaker 2: that embraces a lot of great things.
Speaker 1: Absolutely, absolutely, thank you so much for that, Lilian. Now, Gary,
Speaker 1: you've written across genres, from novels to multimedia art. Now
Speaker 1: tell us how does your background in music, in your
Speaker 1: sense of just play and language, how does that feed
Speaker 1: into a project like this.
Speaker 8: You know, one of the things that I think that
Speaker 8: I get from well, one of the things I get
Speaker 8: from music is exactly this kind of collaborative, improvisational thing.
Speaker 8: I mean, that's something that you make music with other people.
Speaker 8: You you you work in in various kinds of in
Speaker 8: various kind.
Speaker 4: Of groups, in in.
Speaker 8: Creating the music and performing it, in recording it, in
Speaker 8: you know, all all of that. So that that's definitely
Speaker 8: that's definitely something and in multimedia work as well. I
Speaker 8: also think in terms of and also in terms of music,
Speaker 8: thinking about the kind of the the embodied tactility, Like
Speaker 8: you make a note, you make a sound on an instrument,
Speaker 8: and then that sound relates. It's how that that the
Speaker 8: tangible physicality, palpability of that sound.
Speaker 4: You know, it suggests the next one.
Speaker 8: And so you go on and I feel I bring
Speaker 8: that for me, I bring that to writing and to
Speaker 8: this project was very much about that, just really feeling
Speaker 8: the the the vibe, the physicality of you know, each thing,
Speaker 8: and then as it goes on, whether or not it
Speaker 8: conforms to standard grammar or standard harmony or whatever you it,
Speaker 8: you one thing leads to another just by really, you know,
Speaker 8: being informed. If you practice a lot, you think about
Speaker 8: things a lot, but it's also but at the at
Speaker 8: the moment of creating the sound, you then follow it
Speaker 8: in a in a really uh embodied and kind of
Speaker 8: tactile way. And so similarly, I mean, I think I
Speaker 8: go about writing all my writing like that, whether I'm
Speaker 8: writing a novel or whether I'm doing like an experimental video,
Speaker 8: I'm really thinking about out like at each space I'm
Speaker 8: looking at, I can go in any direction, which direction
Speaker 8: feels the most energetic, the most alive, and then I
Speaker 8: just then I go there. And that felt like we
Speaker 8: were very thoughtful and careful about this project, but we
Speaker 8: also were open to going in any direction that felt
Speaker 8: that felt right to all of us. And I love
Speaker 8: that sense of just exploration, right we don't we didn't
Speaker 8: we didn't say this is what this thing is going
Speaker 8: to be.
Speaker 4: We didn't start out with that.
Speaker 8: We said, what, you know, what could what could happen
Speaker 8: when we work together and pay close attention and really
Speaker 8: feel the vibe?
Speaker 1: Right, absolutely, absolutely, thank you so much for that. Gary,
Speaker 1: And now Gregory, your work often pushes into experimental and
Speaker 1: avant garde spaces. Now, how did you bring that type
Speaker 1: of sensibility into you know, really into conversation with the
Speaker 1: more dub and more lyric traditions here.
Speaker 6: I guess I never felt an opposite between them.
Speaker 5: We're trying to we're kind of pushed and.
Speaker 6: Trained to think about silos and create a work that
Speaker 6: doesn't cross over those boundaries. But I mean, when I
Speaker 6: was starting out as a as a young writer in Toronto,
Speaker 6: Lillian was right there, welcoming me into spaces, organizing readings,
Speaker 6: connecting me with I mean, one of my first readings
Speaker 6: was with Debbie Young anat to Africa, and you know,
Speaker 6: really remarkable moments that let me see commonalities where other
Speaker 6: people saw division. We actually we organized a really important event.
Speaker 6: This is almost twenty years ago now, two thousand and six.
Speaker 6: We did an event called Scream in the Square, which
Speaker 6: was a concerted effort to break down those boundaries between
Speaker 6: an avant garde and a dub community. We Lilian performed, Halldutton,
Speaker 6: the Sound Pot performed, Gary and I performed. In fact,
Speaker 6: there was one moment we were wearing weird masks so
Speaker 6: I couldn't with low visibility, But there was one moment
Speaker 6: where a fellow from the from the audience came up
Speaker 6: and started slithering on the steps leading to the stage
Speaker 6: in time to the music as a kind of performative dance,
Speaker 6: which inspired Lillian to get up and start performing with
Speaker 6: us in that moment. Going back, you know, nineteen years,
Speaker 6: So our history is long, our connections are strong, and
Speaker 6: there is a sense in my heart that that the
Speaker 6: divisions aren't as strong as people might like them to be.
Speaker 6: You know, there's there's there's a lot of there's a
Speaker 6: lot of desire to keep people separated, and when we
Speaker 6: embark on a creative venture, we can actually find out
Speaker 6: that we have a lot to learn from each other
Speaker 6: and speak to each other and things that things that
Speaker 6: allow us to meet. So my practice, you know, as
Speaker 6: a as a writer, as a scholar, as an event organizer,
Speaker 6: has always been about finding places that need to be
Speaker 6: opened up and explored and remembered and pushed. So what
Speaker 6: better colleagues could I have even dreamed of than Gary
Speaker 6: and Lillian in that kind of effort in pursuit.
Speaker 1: Absolutely absolutely, well, thank you all for that. And now
Speaker 1: just kind of tell me, I mean, how what was
Speaker 1: the whole in totality? How long did it take together
Speaker 1: for all three of you? How long did this How
Speaker 1: long was the process to get this final product of
Speaker 1: Mother Tongue as the LP? What was the timeline?
Speaker 6: Like, well, I guess in a way it started in
Speaker 6: two thousand and six when we first started collaborating. I
Speaker 6: mean we did we did stage shows in twenty fifteen
Speaker 6: and twenty sixteen together in twenty seventeen, which created a
Speaker 6: kind of synergy events in events in Saint Catherine's in particular,
Speaker 6: when we got to the studio. Is that twenty nineteen
Speaker 6: that you're in the studio in oron.
Speaker 4: Isaacs something like that.
Speaker 6: Yeah, And so you know we're talking extended over over
Speaker 6: a lot of years, wow.
Speaker 1: Bumming it into yeah, Wow, now that is I mean
Speaker 1: so even really the seeds of it two thousand and six,
Speaker 1: so that is almost twenty years.
Speaker 7: Wow.
Speaker 1: That is that is definitely a labor fruits of labor.
Speaker 1: But you're now seeing I mean, and I'm sure that
Speaker 1: the climb, the process of this was the fruits of
Speaker 1: labor for you all as well. And then now tell
Speaker 1: me a bit about I mean, I guess you know
Speaker 1: someone you know people listening to this podcast as they
Speaker 1: hear you all talk. I mean, what, let's say you
Speaker 1: have folks out here you know this is collaboration is
Speaker 1: something a lot of people want to do, but I
Speaker 1: feel like they they're scared to maybe reach across that table.
Speaker 1: You have made mention. You know, these kind of silos
Speaker 1: of creativity, they're not as pronounced as we think they are.
Speaker 1: People have creative outlets but also creative similarities. I mean,
Speaker 1: what would you what would you all advice be for
Speaker 1: people that want to begin that they want to make
Speaker 1: something like this, They want to collaborate, you know, create
Speaker 1: something of a nature that is across different mediums. How
Speaker 1: do you suggest people even begin that creative process of
Speaker 1: reaching across the table to find collaborators.
Speaker 8: You know I've written I can't remember, I've written like
Speaker 8: eight or nine books collaboratively.
Speaker 4: Greg and I have done well done a couple of books.
Speaker 8: And I really love obviously I really love collaborating and
Speaker 8: part and part of that is two things.
Speaker 4: One is just to trust the process.
Speaker 8: So it's not what I necessarily expect is going to happen,
Speaker 8: but trust that together will follow, the writing will follow
Speaker 8: the process. And sometimes it's like that's not what I
Speaker 8: think at all, that doesn't seem very good, Like that
Speaker 8: person did something that I don't get that I saw
Speaker 8: what I wanted, and it's like, oh, relax, trust the process.
Speaker 4: We will work as.
Speaker 8: We integrate that new idea and it's a different and
Speaker 8: you know, we gradually work towards developing this idea and
Speaker 8: being open to that. When two people or three people
Speaker 8: or multiple people get together to collaborate, it goes in
Speaker 8: many unexpected directions, and that, in fact, is the point
Speaker 8: rather than Okay, I just need somebody to help me
Speaker 8: do the thing like that, that's not what it is.
Speaker 4: It's about that.
Speaker 8: Kind of mind meld where you go off in unexpected
Speaker 8: directions and you trust that process. So I think the
Speaker 8: most important thing is that you find people that you
Speaker 8: can just trust that even if you know, even if
Speaker 8: at times you think that what they've what they've contributed
Speaker 8: doesn't seem like it's what you wanted, trusting that in fact,
Speaker 8: it will reveal itself as to why that is integrally.
Speaker 4: Part of the process.
Speaker 8: So to me that I think that's part of it
Speaker 8: and then have kind of and then enjoy that process
Speaker 8: and enjoy the kind of back and forthedness and changedness.
Speaker 8: And also it's so getting outside of your own go
Speaker 8: just trusting the work, like it's not about you, it's
Speaker 8: about what the work, what work is happening before you.
Speaker 8: So and I think, to me, that's incredibly liberating. It's
Speaker 8: like I get a I get a holiday from myself
Speaker 8: and I'm just absorbed in the writing and I'm I'm
Speaker 8: also not kind of responsible for the work as but
Speaker 8: but rather i'm I'm or so that I that I
Speaker 8: can I can think this isn't just me, this is
Speaker 8: us together, and so it sort of frees me up
Speaker 8: and then I'm really proud of what we do together.
Speaker 8: So I think I think that's the most important. And
Speaker 8: that's often against the idea of like the great writer
Speaker 8: sits there and the muse comes to them and they
Speaker 8: have their own unique particular idea that nobody else can have. Actually,
Speaker 8: the process where you just all together you you make
Speaker 8: something it's not about you are your own news is
Speaker 8: together and that's that's really cool. And if you just
Speaker 8: kind of open to open to what happens to me,
Speaker 8: that's the most important thing. And trusting that there's people
Speaker 8: who are like minded in that and at least with
Speaker 8: regard to the process.
Speaker 1: Absolutely absolutely love that, love that absolutely so.
Speaker 2: What I learned in terms of collaboration, and I learned
Speaker 2: that from you know, we're farming groups and so forth,
Speaker 2: is have something that you own and you love. I'm
Speaker 2: a tyrant when it comes to my individual writing process,
Speaker 2: and therefore I'm able to hand over as Gary is
Speaker 2: so apply described there to a collective process. But I
Speaker 2: find that people who don't really have a solid thing
Speaker 2: that they control, that it's harder. That's been my experience
Speaker 2: in the past. But when yeah, so you know, I've
Speaker 2: got my thing that I know it's definitely me. I'm easy.
Speaker 2: I'm ready now to let it be our collective thing
Speaker 2: for sure.
Speaker 1: Absolutely absolutely love that, love that, love those perspectives, And
Speaker 1: thank you all so much for sharing that. As we're
Speaker 1: kind of wrapping up here, I mean, you know, we
Speaker 1: do we want more people to listen to this sonic poetry.
Speaker 1: But I guess you know, how would you recommend they
Speaker 1: enter muttered tongue? I mean, is it a headphone experience,
Speaker 1: a performance, uh meditation of the senses, or something else entirely?
Speaker 1: How do you really, how do you all, as the
Speaker 1: creators of it, how do you suggest and recommend people
Speaker 1: really enter into this experience of poeticness?
Speaker 2: Can we improvise that answer?
Speaker 1: Of course?
Speaker 2: Can we just and then just speak it up from there?
Speaker 2: How do we enter?
Speaker 1: Come?
Speaker 2: Listen, right, let's do something that will so people, can
Speaker 2: you know.
Speaker 4: Here here what it is? Yeah?
Speaker 9: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1: But.
Speaker 4: Pause, do you have me?
Speaker 2: Yeah? Welcome, this can come on?
Speaker 4: Yeh yeah.
Speaker 7: Oh what did you do?
Speaker 4: Did you want?
Speaker 3: Oh?
Speaker 2: Yump jump? Yeah yeah yeah yeah.
Speaker 7: Yeah Africa, Okay, all right, there we go. I love it,
Speaker 7: love it.
Speaker 1: I love that. Love that. No, that really right there,
Speaker 1: that is the work. That really is the work. And
Speaker 1: the fact that all three of you, now if everyone listening,
Speaker 1: you know, we're we're literally zooming in in different places.
Speaker 1: All three of these people really destined to collapse together
Speaker 1: to be able to do that over zoom. I really
Speaker 1: really love and appreciate that. So there we go. That's
Speaker 1: the best experience for this, for this peace, for this
Speaker 1: work correct.
Speaker 6: The one reviewers said it nicely. They said they listened
Speaker 6: to it and then they read it and they thought
Speaker 6: that was great. I think what you have to do
Speaker 6: is you have to come out to a to a show,
Speaker 6: listen to it, read the book, talk to us, and
Speaker 6: then the best experience that you can get out of
Speaker 6: this record if you make your own record.
Speaker 2: In response, just walk around the house being you know,
Speaker 2: out in the sounds.
Speaker 5: Yeah, the language.
Speaker 1: Yeah, a variety of boys are we love it. We
Speaker 1: love and really appreciate y'all really bringing your best selves
Speaker 1: to this podcast today. Now we have one final question.
Speaker 1: We ask everyone that is on the Poet Speaks podcast,
Speaker 1: and we'll start with you Lilian, then we'll go Gary,
Speaker 1: then Gregory. Why do you need to get your words out?
Speaker 2: Well, I mean I need to get it out of
Speaker 2: me for one, which is because there's so many words
Speaker 2: and so many things that need vocalization, and you know,
Speaker 2: coming through the centrist from the ancestors, and they need
Speaker 2: to get it into the pool of sounds and knowledges
Speaker 2: that we have in the world. My words are embodied,
Speaker 2: you know, I was validated by listening to reading books
Speaker 2: and poetry. I was inspired, I was in choose. I
Speaker 2: found community. I found deep, deep, deep, deep pleasure and
Speaker 2: much more. And I hope too. That's what I want
Speaker 2: to do. I want to get the word out. People
Speaker 2: love words, you know, they they love stories, they love poetry,
Speaker 2: they love performances, and you know, that's what we're about. Relationality, connections,
Speaker 2: building community, feeling great and that our lives are essentially
Speaker 2: really meaningful and important. So yeah, that's me.
Speaker 4: I'm you know, I love the idea about relationality.
Speaker 8: I was trying to think about because that is a
Speaker 8: really it's a really profound question and in a way,
Speaker 8: I have one hundred answers and I have no answers
Speaker 8: to the question. Uh, I mean, why do I look
Speaker 8: at things? Why do I listen to things? It's just
Speaker 8: they're there and I can't. That's what the words and
Speaker 8: making stuff up, being creative, that's just part of what
Speaker 8: it is to interact in the world and to be
Speaker 8: in and to receive the world is to speak to
Speaker 8: it and speak to other people. So that whole Yeah,
Speaker 8: relationality being this and responding and responding to responding to
Speaker 8: the world and as and and to kind of also
Speaker 8: sort of surf the flow of words that they're just there,
Speaker 8: they're kind of furst thing out sort of to follow
Speaker 8: through that.
Speaker 4: That's what it feels like. I want to I am
Speaker 4: just part of that.
Speaker 8: It's not it's not even a it's just as part
Speaker 8: of my basic modality of being in the world.
Speaker 4: I guess, absolutely, you get excited.
Speaker 6: I mean, I have these moments where I'm reading things,
Speaker 6: I'm discovering things, I'm finding things that's just really rich,
Speaker 6: beautiful thinking and what and often that's not my own
Speaker 6: that's just you know, things that I found in the world.
Speaker 6: But it draws me, It pulls me in and in
Speaker 6: it brings.
Speaker 5: Stuff out of me.
Speaker 2: You know.
Speaker 6: As a result, I get deeply inspired by the work
Speaker 6: of other people and I love I love engaging with it,
Speaker 6: and I feel just compelled and drawn to share in
Speaker 6: the excitement of the beautiful thinking. And maybe maybe I
Speaker 6: make my own contributions in some small way, But it's
Speaker 6: really about participating in the in the sharing of the
Speaker 6: the edge that we found in the worlds that we've uncovered.
Speaker 1: Yeah, perfect, absolutely, all right, y'all. That's it. That's why
Speaker 1: they need to get their words out and again everyone
Speaker 1: please go check out Muttered Tongue, you know, quickly before
Speaker 1: we end Lily and Gary Gregory, please do tell us
Speaker 1: where we can find your work, where we can find
Speaker 1: any social media websites, as well as where folks can
Speaker 1: find Mother Tongue the LP. If we can start with
Speaker 1: Lily and then we go Gary Gregory, please give drop
Speaker 1: any socials websites, any places we can find more of
Speaker 1: your amazing work.
Speaker 2: Uh, Lilian Allen dot ca a Lilian Allen dubbed social
Speaker 2: media you know Google search. It should be all over
Speaker 2: the entry bookstores.
Speaker 8: Yeah so yeah, so I Mother Tongue specifically is it's
Speaker 8: on band camp if you just look up Mother Tongue
Speaker 8: you'll find it. It's on Spotify and Apple and a
Speaker 8: bunch of streaming places. It's put out by Siren Records,
Speaker 8: so you can go to their website. There's going to
Speaker 8: be actual LP is going to be pressed by them,
Speaker 8: but the digital files are on on on streaming. The
Speaker 8: book is put out by Exile Editions, so you can
Speaker 8: Mother Tongue Exile Editions, and that's in bookstores, but you
Speaker 8: can also go to their website and you can search
Speaker 8: for as for my specific things. You can just search
Speaker 8: my name and I'm I'm just a mass all over
Speaker 8: the internet.
Speaker 4: Thanks very much, absolutely, and I'm on Facebook.
Speaker 6: I'm still on Facebook. I'm also on Blue Sky. But
Speaker 6: the emails g bets brock you dot ca A, send
Speaker 6: me an email. Let's let's chat. Happy to happy to
Speaker 6: meet with people.
Speaker 5: And we are we and we come to classrooms. So
Speaker 5: the easiest way to find us is.
Speaker 1: To bring us and we'll be there, perfect, perfect, all right. Well, again,
Speaker 1: a big thank you Lily and Gary Gregory. Everyone. Links
Speaker 1: for Muttered Tongue will be down below detailed description box below. Again,
Speaker 1: thank you all three of you for displaying your amazing
Speaker 1: work and just being great. We really appreciate this interview today.
Speaker 4: Thanks so much to participate.
Speaker 1: Absolutely, absolutely, and everyone again check out the Poet Speaks podcast.
Speaker 1: No matter where you listen to your podcast, we are
Speaker 1: literally streaming everywhere, all right. Viral one