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Speaker 1: And hello, how are you a happy Monday? Sue you

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Welcome to the Big Podcast on this fifth day of January,

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year of our War, twenty twenty six. My name is

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Tom Sullivan. Anything any thing happened over the weekend. I

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mean it's it was a surprise. I don't know about you,

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but when I woke up Saturday morning found out that

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our military had gone into Venezuela and captured Nicholas Maduro,

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I was going to say the president, But he's not

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the president, that's the problem. He claims he is, But

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that was an illegitimate election. I mean, clearly he lost.

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By everybody's count, the opposition candidate got seventy percent seven

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zero and so no, and he just refused to accept

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the It was not only every international organization that was

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watching that election came up with about the same number,

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about seventy percent voted for the opposition candidate and not

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for him. But he said, I'm going to ignore that

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I'm still the president. Well, actually he's not, and he's

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not recognized as the president by most nations of the world.

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So what did they do. They arrested basically a drug

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cartel leader, and well, yes, because that's what he was.

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He was, he ran a cartel, he got paid off

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from various people, mostly his generals. Let's see what are

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the looking at the charges here against him. Narco terrorism

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conspiracy charge number one, charge number two, cocaine importation conspiracy

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charge number three, possession of machine guns and destructive devices, okay,

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and number four conspiracy to possess machine guns and destructive devices.

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Those are the four counts that are against him. He

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showed up in federal court with his wife today, pleaded

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not guilty and kept claiming that he was the president

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of Venezuela. And our government says, actually, you're just you're

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just a drug cartel criminal and you've been indicted years ago,

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so they're gonna have to go back and find out,

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you know, witnesses and things like that. But I've got

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a variety of reactions. I think it's I think there's

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a lot of people that, first of all, on the

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left that for they don't like Donald Trump, so they

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can not cannot bring themselves to say way to go no,

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and they have to criticize whatever it is. And yet

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they're criticizing the arrest of this Maduro guy who not

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only was a drug dealer but he was also involved

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in all kinds. I mean he arbitrary killings, disappearances of people,

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the people that were in his prisons, torture and humane

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or degrading treatment or punishment, forced labor. I mean, this

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guy was a bad guy. And so it's awfully hard

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for the people on the left that can't stand Donald

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Trump to say anything other than they just come as.

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Some of them are coming out and saying yes, actually,

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that was a pretty good idea of them is DeBie

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Wasserman Schultz, big, big, big powerful woman in the Democrat Party,

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congresswoman from from South Florida. And what's going on in

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Florida is interesting because most of the politicians, they're Democrat

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and Republican, they get it. They've got a lot of

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Nezeelan ethnic families living in as their congressional constituents, and

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they know how bad this guy was. Here's a here's

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a little clip from w Wasserman Schultz.

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Speaker 2: My focus is on my community here in South Florida,

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who are absolutely elated at the removal, the departure finally

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of Maduro. But and I have spent a lot of

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time over the last few days talking directly with leaders

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in our community and a significant worry where we're kind

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of moving to cautious optimism and now even closer to

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real concern that all that has happened is that the

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cronies from the Maduro regime are in charge. That now

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actually Trump seems to have recognized, which is the first

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time that's happened, that recognized a regime official as the

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head of Venezuela, even though he's saying that he is

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going to be running Venezuela, and that political prisoners have

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not been released, and worst of all, things seem to

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be getting worse in Venezuela. A decree was issued by

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DLSI Rodriguez, the acting president today, who I certainly don't

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recognize in that role, to have the police start arresting,

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searching and arresting individuals who are caught promoting or supporting

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the removal and arrest of Maduro. They're searching cars, I've

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seen video of that happening. They are searching cell phones

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of Venezuelans. So things actually appear to have gotten worse,

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not better, and that has to be the focus. We

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need a transition to democracy. We need to make sure

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that there is prosperity and liberty that is restored to Venezuela,

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and that just doesn't appear to be on Donald Trump's

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priority list, and that's what they're concerned about.

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Speaker 1: Okay, So she did her very best at criticizing Trump,

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but she has an interesting point and it's one that's

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being asked a lot. And there's a lot of questions

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that we don't have answers to because we don't know

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how people are going to react that are in positions

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of power. This Delsea Rodriguez was appointed the vice president

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by Maduro and so therefore since he wasn't the legitimate president,

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she is not the legitimate vice president, but she's acting

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and the courts there said, okay, you're the acting president

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until Moduro if he comes back. And she was very

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much opposed to everything that happened on Saturday, and then yesterday,

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all of a sudden, something happened and she decided to

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become much more cooperative. That's general Keane talks about this.

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Speaker 3: The Trump administration has made quite a big decision here,

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and that is to work with the Maduro government as

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opposed to try to depose that government, which would obviously

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lead to a physical presence of troops on the ground

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and I believe they have some indications that they think

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they can work with this government and move them in

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the right direction. Everybody knows who they are. I mean,

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the three top leaders of it are all indicted, just

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as Maduro is. That's the Vice President, the Minister of Defense,

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and the Minister of Interior, and these people have blood

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on their hands also in terms of repression the Venezuelan people,

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and certainly everybody knows who we're dealing with here. But

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can we move them in the right direction? And what

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are we talking about? Shut Down the narco trafficking, shut

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down the Columbian gangs and the paramilitary militias that the

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Minister of Interior has used as goons to repress the

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Venezuelan people. The reason why the Venezuelan people aren't celebrating

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Madua's removal is because they know the goons and thugs

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are still in charge, and they fear going out on

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the streets to celebrate. So obviously the administration has some

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indication by talking to the Vice President that she is

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willing to cooperate and listen, we have lots of leverage here.

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We could have taken Maduro's compound down and killed everybody.

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They know that we chose the tougher option and the

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better option to go in there and try to extract

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them and put them in it before a judge and

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a jury. Eventually they know those options are available to

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this president and dealing with those three top leaders as well.

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So we have leverage here and what we want to

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do in addition to what I just suggested, and the

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Secretary of State said so on television on Sunday, the

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objective is to move to a democratic form of government.

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And listen so people understand we're not about nation building here.

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This is not barja Herschegovina, it's not Iraq, and it's

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not Afghanistan. Why because the democratic structure already exists in Venezuela,

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albeit it's in the wrong hands under Chavez. On theer

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Maduro and now on the device President. There is a

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Supreme Court, there is a National Assembly, a legislative body.

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There is an executive branch. There is a civil society

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that has been significantly repressed for the last fourteen years

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and absolutely punished. But that society will come to life

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and be energized and be in the streets supporting a

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movement towards elections. Which is what the administration wants to do,

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but they know they can't do it immediately because it's

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not prepared to do it immediately, and they want to

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first achieve some debility and then move towards it. Don't

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rush towards it, but make certain we get everything in

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place to make certain their success. To here, it's an

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open question. We don't know how much this regime will cooperate.

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They want to protect themselves, but we have lots of leverage.

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We also have an amnesty leverage. You work with us

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and we'll give you exile and we'll give you no indictment.

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You help achieve our political objectives and inside the country

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and also our security objectives, and there may be something

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positive for you at the end. So I don't know

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what the conversations are. I'm only speculating, but the administration

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believes at least now we can work with them and

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help them accomplish our political and security objectives. If not,

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we have an ORLS option as well.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, as usual, I think General Kams to write on

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these people know what just happened, and I'm sure they're

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having a conversation of would you like to disappear? Would

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you like US to come pick you up in the

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middle of the night and bring you to a prison

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in New York City. Because these people are also indicted,

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the top three people, And so the question becomes, what

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are they going to do, What are their decisions going

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to be? Are they going to cooperate with the US.

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Because if you go in and try and take over

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a country, we have examples of it. Libya, Oh my gosh.

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Obama went in and said we're going to take over

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after Kadafi and it turned out to be a haven

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for terrorism. The same with a rock that has not

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turned out well. Afghanistan was a complete disaster. Go to

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the Soviet Union when it collapsed. When it collapsed all

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of a sudden, the form of government changed overnight, and

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who the vacuum was created and who stepped in the mob?

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The Russian mob. Still to this I think that's part

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of Putin's whole group is the Russian mob, and they

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took over the country. So trying to turn this over

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to the Venezuelan people with legitimate, honest executives of the

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country is much trickier than you might think. And we

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don't know the answer to how that's going to turn out.

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Because we don't know what these people are going to do.

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So that's Rodriguez is the acting president of Venezuela. And

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the thing is she was so opposed to everything that happened,

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and all of a sudden yesterday she's calling for cooperation.

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So there's a lot to still work on with that.

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This whole idea about well why didn't you arrest everybody else?

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It was brought up on Face to Nation Margaret Brennan

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was quizzing Marco Rubio about all of this, and I thought, well,

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I'll play you a piece of what Rubio and Margaret

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Brennan went back and forth about.

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Speaker 4: Well, first of all, I think the important thing to

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point out is that the key to what that regime

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relies on and is the economy fueled by oil. And

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right now it is an oil industry that is backwards

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and really needs a lot of help and work in

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terms of it. And not only that, but it doesn't

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help the people. None of the money from the oil

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gets to the people. It's all stolen by the people

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that are on the top there. And so that's why

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we have a quarantine. There's a quarantine right now in

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which sanctioned oil shipments there's a boat and that boat

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is under US sanctions, we go get a quarridorder, we

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will seize it. That remains in place, and that's a

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tremendous amount of leverage that will continue to be in

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place until we see changes not just further the national

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interests of the United States, which is number one, but

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also that lead to a better future for the people

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of Venezuela. And so that's the sort of control the

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President is pointing to when he says that we continue

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with that quarantine and we expect to see that there

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will be is not just in the way the oil

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industries run for the benefit of the people, but also

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so that they stop the drug trafficking, so that we

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no longer have these gang problems, so that they kicked

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the farc in the eln out, and that they no

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longer cozy up to Hasbullah and Iran in our own hemisphere.

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Speaker 5: I'm curious why the Trump administration decided to leave it

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intact and only arrest Nicholas Maduro and his wife. The

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person who controls the police, the chief thug dis di Cabello.

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He's the Interior minister. He's been indicted by the United States.

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He was in that indictment the administration released, he's a

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narco terrorist. There's a twenty five million dollar price on

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his head. He's still in place. The Defense minister, who

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has deep ties to Russia fifteen million dollar price on

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his head. He is still in place. I'm confused. Are

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they still wanted by the United States? Why didn't you

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arrest them? If you are taking out the narco terrorist regime.

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Speaker 6: You're confused. I don't know why that's confusing. They're still

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in me.

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Speaker 4: It's very so we're not going to go in and

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wrap up. You're going to but yeah, but you can't

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go You're going to go in and suck up five people.

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They're already complaining about this one operation. Imagine the howls

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we would have from everybody else if we actually had

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to go and stay there four days to capture four

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other people. We got the top priority. The number one

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person on the list was the guy who claimed to

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be the president of the country that he was not,

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and he was arrested along with his wife, who was

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also indicted. And that was a pretty sophisticated and frankly

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complicated operation. It is not easy to land helicopters in

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the Middle of the largest military base in the country.

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Speaker 6: The guy lived on a military base.

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Speaker 4: Land within three minutes, kick down his door, grab him,

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put him in handcuffs, read him his rights, put him

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in a helicopter, and leave the country without losing any

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American or any American assets.

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Speaker 6: That's not an easy mission.

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Speaker 4: And you're asking me why didn't we do that in

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five other places at the same time.

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Speaker 6: I mean, that's absurd.

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Speaker 4: I do think this is one of the most you know, daring,

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you know, complicated, sophisticated missions this country has carried out

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in a very long time. Tremendous credit to the US

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military personnel who did it. It was unbelievable and tremendous success.

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And today, an indicted drug trafficker who was not the

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legitimate president of Venezuela, well, we don't recognize. The Biden

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administration didn't recognize. Sixty something countries don't recognize, the European

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Union doesn't recognize, and many countries in Latin America don't recognize.

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He was a convicted He was an indicted drug trafficker.

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He was arrested, his wife was arrested, right.

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Speaker 5: And so the others, the others who are also indicted

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are still system. Of course, the others who are also

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indicted are still in place, So that's the point of

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my questioning there. But you talked about not being the legitimary.

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Speaker 6: You wanted us to land on five other military bases.

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Speaker 5: No, I'm asking why you chose that this was the

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limit of the military operation. But to your point that

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you just made that because that Maduro was not the

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legitimate president.

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Speaker 6: He was the guy who was claiming to be the president.

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Speaker 5: Right, Well, the opposition target okay, the opposition leader Maria

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Karina Machado and Mundo Gonzalez one that twenty twenty four election.

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By your own account, they were some of the first

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people you called when you were Secretary of State. You

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said in Mundo Gonzalez is the rightful president of Venezuela.

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Is that still the US policy? And if so, are

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you working on a transition to have those elected leaders

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run the country.

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Speaker 6: Well, I think the couple things.

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Speaker 4: I have tremendous admiration from Maria Karina Machado, I have

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admiration fred Mundo. We have all those views about what

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the election that happened the last time, and not only US,

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but many other countries around the world.

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Speaker 6: There's that, but there's the mission that we are on

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right now.

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Speaker 4: We have been very clear from the beginning because I

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still think that a lot of people analyze everything that

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happens in foreign policy through the lens of what happened

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from two thousand and one to three thousand and fifteen

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or sixteen. The whole foreign policy apparatus thinks everything is Libya,

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everything is Irock, everything is Afghanistan. This is not the

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Middle East, and our mission here is very different. This

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is the Western Hemisphere. Within the Western Hemisphere, we have

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a country, potentially very rich country that has cozied itself

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up under the control of this regime, has cozied up

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to Iran, has cosied up to Hesbula, has cozied has

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allowed narco trafficking gangs to operate with impunity from their

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own territory, allows boats with drugs to traffic from their territory.

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And we are addressing that. And by the way, for

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eight nine million people in the largest mass migration event

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in modern history have left that country since.

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Speaker 6: Twenty four that regime is still in really impact on us.

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That is what we are addressing now.

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Speaker 4: When you spoke yesterday, we're not just addressing the regime.

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We are addressing the factors that are a threat to

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the national interest of the United States.

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Speaker 5: Understood, you spoke with Delse Rodriguez, who is now, according

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to President Trump sworn in as the president, as the

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leader of Venezuela. Did she promise you that she is

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expelling all those American adversaries from Venezuelan territory. What exactly

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did she agree to do when she spoke to you.

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Speaker 4: We are going to our objectives when it comes to

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how Venezuela impacts the national entry to the United States

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have not changed, and we want those addressed. We want

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drug trafficking to stop. We want no more gang members

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to come our way. We don't want to see the

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Iranian and by the way, Cuban presence in the past.

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We want the oil industry in that country not to

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go to the benefit of pirates and adversaries of the

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United States, but for the benefit of the people. We

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want to see all of that happen. We insist on

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seeing that happen, and we are going to work to

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continue to see that happen. Well, right now, we are

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going to see what happens moving forward. Let me just

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say that I'm not obviously going to have these conversations

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in the media. These are delicate and complicated things that

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require mature statesmanship, and that's what we intend to do.

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But our goals remain the same. The difference is that

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the person who was in charge, even though not legitimately

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in the past, was someone you could not work with.

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We just could not work with him. He is not

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a person that had ever kept any of the deals

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he made, broke every deal he ever made, made a

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fool out of the Biden administration on the deal they

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made with him. And we offered him on multiple occasions

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and opportunity to remove himself from the scene in a

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positive way.

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Speaker 6: He chose not to do so.

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Speaker 5: But his number two is now running the country. His

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number two is someone you can work with and you

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is that what you're implying here? And did she tell

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you that she will transition to democracy? And the woman

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who won the election along with her partner there, Maria

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Karina Machado, we.

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Speaker 4: Are going to make we are going to make our

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assessments of people. You're asking me to make an assessment.

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We're going to make an assessment on the basis of

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what they do. Now, what they say publicly in the interim,

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not you know what they've done in the past in

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many cases, but what they do moving forward.

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Speaker 6: So we're going to find out.

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Speaker 4: You're asking me, why do I know what decisions people

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are going to make.

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Speaker 6: I don't.

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Speaker 4: I do know this that if they don't make the

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right decisions, the United States will retain multiple levers of

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leverage to ensure that our interests are protected, and that

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includes the oil quarantine that's a place, among other things. Well,

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so we are going to judge moving forward. We're going

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to judge everything by what they do, and we're going

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to see what they do.

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Speaker 1: So I don't know how you feel about that, but

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I'm I feel pretty I feel positive about it. I

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think that the group that's there is going to understand

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that they either have to leave or they have to

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start falling into line with what we are telling them

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we want them to do. There's well besides that. I mean, again,

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if you toss them out, there's going to be a vacuum,

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and who knows who would step into that vacuum. It's

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very dicey to change a regime of a country, but

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in this case, as long as they behave essentially we will.

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It looks like we're going to let them stay and

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if they don't behave, they're going to be gone one

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one way or the other. Former CIA station chief in Caracas,

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guy by the name of Rick Delatore, talks about there's

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also a problem of the drug cartel gangs that live

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in Venezuela, right.

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Speaker 7: And that is a concern.

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Speaker 8: Right For a number of years now, the Maduro regime

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has opened its stores to a number of Columbian terrorist

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organizations like the farc D and the LNS and my Ketalia.

379
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They're all living there in the jungles just outside of Kukata.

380
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I've been there. I've been to that bridge. It's myself

381
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at Auka in those areas. I think what's going to

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happen next is is going to be interesting, and it's

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going to be interesting to see how Columbia plays along

384
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or if it doesn't. As as Venezuela comes under more

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and more control of the US forces, obviously it will

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be part of our objective to I suspect, to to

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to weed out these terrorists that are the ones that

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were partners with the Maduro regime and actually moving the drugs,

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facilitating the human trafficking, working with Iran and others and

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extracting gold and silver minerals and selling them. I think

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what's going to happen is those folks are going to

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have to make a decision. Are they going to want

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to face us, you know, the United States Department of War,

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or are they going to cross the border back into Columbia.

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And if they try to cross the border back in

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the Columbia, what's Columbia gonna.

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Speaker 6: Do about it.

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Speaker 9: Yeah, so all of this is.

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Speaker 1: Been thrown in the air. We're going to watch and

400
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see how things land. But yeah, he's got So you

401
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got those the thugs that were running the government for Maduro,

402
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and you've got the cartel gangs that live out in

403
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the forest. What are they going to do Because that's

404
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their livelihood. They're going to either have to stop or

405
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they're going to have to leave and go someplace else.

406
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I've always believed followed the money, and I think the

407
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cartels are no different than anybody else. They're going to

408
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follow what is best for them financially. Here's the guy.

409
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His name is David Smolsky. He is one of the

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politicians in Venezuela that was on the opposition party the

411
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party to one, but Madua would not allow them to

412
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take office. His name again, David Smolski, and this is

413
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his view about what's going to happen next.

414
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Speaker 10: With your respect to President Trump, Maria Corina Mattau is

415
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the most trusted leader in Venezuela, and I don't have

416
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any doubt that she's going to be with President elegen

417
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Mundo Gonzalez, the leaders of the revealing of Venezuela, where

418
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obviously the US is going to be our main allies

419
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and will have plenty of other allies in Latin America

420
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and Europe and beyond. But Maria Coriina Matchau is a

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leader who is out of this world and she's got

422
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the support from almost every Venezuelan.

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Speaker 1: Okay, let me let me start this out. I had

424
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to look this up because I was trying to figure

425
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out that ed Mundo Gonzalez was elected as the president,

426
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got seventy percent of the vote, but Maduro said, you're not.

427
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We're not going to recognize your win. That's ed Mundo Gonzalez.

428
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So how does this Maria Corrino Machado fly into this.

429
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She was the candidate for president and Maduro banned her

430
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from running, so you can't run. So she said, Okay,

431
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vote for this guy, ed Mundo Gonzalez, and he and

432
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I are on the same page, and so she pushed

433
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for his election and he did win. Basically he was

434
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a proxy for Maria Coriina Machado. So that's how those

435
00:25:25,839 --> 00:25:29,920
two names come up. And Maria Karina Machado has this

436
00:25:30,119 --> 00:25:34,759
massive support of the people in Venezuela. This is a

437
00:25:34,799 --> 00:25:40,920
guy who was a prisoner in one of the Venezuelan prisons.

438
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His name is Matthew Heath, a marine veteran. He was

439
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held for two years in Venezuelan jails and he describes

440
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how things go when you're in their custody.

441
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Speaker 7: Well, obviously that's a concern for all of us, is

442
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that there's a failed state and then as worse than

443
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it is now, millions of Venezuelans, more than this seven

444
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million that have already left the country, flee to other countries. Obviously,

445
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Columbia shares a large lane border. Believe it or not,

446
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Colombia in the past has served has served as a

447
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resting place for a couple of million Venezuelans. They've provided

448
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social services to them, but it's a poor country. And

449
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they can't support ten million.

450
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Speaker 1: So it was brutal. People were beaten. He was beaten,

451
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he was tortured, and that's what goes on in prison there.

452
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So Maduro is looking around over at the Metropolitan the

453
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Detention Center. He must think that it's a lovely place

454
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to be. It's not a nasty place by our standards,

455
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but by his standards. I think he's probably scratching his

456
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head a little bit. So he went to court today,

457
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Maduro did, and his wife, and the judge in the

458
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case is ninety two years old and highly thought of.

459
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I mean, he's getting kind of long in the tooth,

460
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but John Miller and others think really highly of This

461
00:27:06,640 --> 00:27:10,000
guy is a fairly fair judge. And these are the

462
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charges that were read to Maduro today.

463
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Speaker 11: Well, as our colleague was just mentioning, you know, they

464
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have to present a case. And the indictment, which is

465
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twenty five pages of you know, various charges, stems over

466
00:27:25,119 --> 00:27:28,359
twenty years. But when you look at it and kind

467
00:27:28,359 --> 00:27:32,519
of get past the storytelling of the case to what

468
00:27:32,799 --> 00:27:35,440
reads from this document like something we're going to see

469
00:27:35,440 --> 00:27:38,079
in court, you see a number of the people mentioned

470
00:27:38,079 --> 00:27:41,839
in it were close associates of the Maduros, both the

471
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husband and the wife. You see some of them have

472
00:27:44,279 --> 00:27:48,960
pled guilty in earlier versions of other prosecutions around this case.

473
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Those are the kinds of people that Eli Honig would

474
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tell you are very likely to appear as government witnesses

475
00:27:55,079 --> 00:27:57,279
and that they've pled guilty and they're now serving time,

476
00:27:58,079 --> 00:27:59,720
And those are the kinds of people who are often

477
00:27:59,720 --> 00:28:03,160
looking for some consideration to tell their story. That gives

478
00:28:03,200 --> 00:28:05,400
you the kind of case where you're going to hear

479
00:28:05,519 --> 00:28:10,480
stories of planes being loaded with tons of narcotics in

480
00:28:10,559 --> 00:28:16,960
the presidential hangar at Simone Boulevard Boulevard Airport, where you're

481
00:28:17,000 --> 00:28:24,359
going to hear about recorded conversations between DEA informants and

482
00:28:24,599 --> 00:28:28,160
relatives of the Maduros where they talk about their association

483
00:28:28,319 --> 00:28:31,440
with the terrorist group the FARC, which also is a

484
00:28:31,480 --> 00:28:34,920
major narcotics entity, how they're trying to raise twenty million

485
00:28:34,960 --> 00:28:39,000
dollars for an election to the Venezuelan Assembly for Maduro

486
00:28:39,079 --> 00:28:44,720
before he was president. You're going to hear about allegations

487
00:28:44,759 --> 00:28:49,359
that not only did they accept bribes, issued diplomatic passports

488
00:28:49,400 --> 00:28:53,200
to drug traffickers so that they could bypass customs without searches,

489
00:28:54,160 --> 00:28:58,880
that they issued orders for kidnappings and beatings of drug

490
00:28:58,880 --> 00:29:02,319
traffickers who weren't paying bribes or olde bribes, or weren't

491
00:29:02,359 --> 00:29:06,039
paying on time. This is the kind of case that

492
00:29:06,359 --> 00:29:08,519
is going to hey take more than a year to

493
00:29:08,559 --> 00:29:11,559
get to trial when you consider the amount of discovery

494
00:29:11,599 --> 00:29:16,119
involved and be involve a lengthy time in court when

495
00:29:16,160 --> 00:29:18,720
and if it does get going. So as we look

496
00:29:18,759 --> 00:29:21,839
at these lawyers who are there today, we don't know

497
00:29:22,000 --> 00:29:23,960
that those are going to be the lawyers who carry

498
00:29:24,000 --> 00:29:26,920
this through or whether they're the lawyers for these initial

499
00:29:27,000 --> 00:29:30,039
stages where they may argue the political nature of the

500
00:29:30,079 --> 00:29:31,440
case rather than the evidence.

501
00:29:32,160 --> 00:29:34,839
Speaker 1: That was one of the questions right up until almost

502
00:29:34,839 --> 00:29:39,519
court time. Does he have a representative, Maduro and so

503
00:29:39,680 --> 00:29:41,680
all of a sudden, yep, he does. His name is

504
00:29:41,720 --> 00:29:45,839
Barry Pollock. He is a Washington d c. Lawyer. He

505
00:29:45,880 --> 00:29:50,279
does a lot of international law. He has represented Julian Assange.

506
00:29:50,799 --> 00:29:54,079
So we'll see whether he sticks around or whether he

507
00:29:54,240 --> 00:29:58,880
just showed up to see whether there was anything for

508
00:30:00,599 --> 00:30:04,519
in this. I mean, it's going to take a large

509
00:30:04,559 --> 00:30:09,119
down payment to a lawyer, because if this guy is convicted,

510
00:30:09,400 --> 00:30:13,799
or if the leaders in Venezuela turn on Maduro to

511
00:30:13,920 --> 00:30:15,960
because of the fact that they wanted to get along

512
00:30:15,960 --> 00:30:19,480
with the US, they may cut off funding for whatever

513
00:30:19,519 --> 00:30:23,400
he wants for defense of his trial. So it was

514
00:30:24,240 --> 00:30:26,599
with a lot of drama and they had. They brought

515
00:30:26,680 --> 00:30:30,960
him over from the Metropolitan Detention Center over in Brooklyn.

516
00:30:31,799 --> 00:30:37,359
They put him in a helicopter. They drove him in

517
00:30:37,440 --> 00:30:41,359
a bear cat a couple of blocks from the Metropolitan

518
00:30:41,400 --> 00:30:44,400
Detention Center over to a helicopter, flew him he didn't

519
00:30:44,440 --> 00:30:46,839
have to deal with New York traffic this morning. Flew

520
00:30:46,920 --> 00:30:53,559
him from Brooklyn over the East River into the heliport,

521
00:30:53,640 --> 00:30:57,440
the Wall Street Heliport. They picked him up there in

522
00:30:57,519 --> 00:31:01,160
another bear cat and drove him to the courthouse where

523
00:31:01,160 --> 00:31:05,359
he was then presented before this ninety two year old judge.

524
00:31:06,160 --> 00:31:11,799
There is a guy who is a regional expert on

525
00:31:12,519 --> 00:31:18,400
that part of the world, Venezuela, all of the countries

526
00:31:18,440 --> 00:31:22,240
surrounding that, And the question is with all this shakeup

527
00:31:22,319 --> 00:31:25,079
going on in Venezuela, is it going to shake up

528
00:31:25,119 --> 00:31:28,480
the whole region. His name is Eric Farnsworth. It could

529
00:31:28,480 --> 00:31:33,359
affect it directly because Venezuela for a number of years

530
00:31:33,400 --> 00:31:37,960
has essentially been a collapsing country. One quarter of the

531
00:31:38,119 --> 00:31:42,720
entire population of thirty three million, now eight million Venezuelans

532
00:31:42,720 --> 00:31:46,519
are outside the country, and that's happened long before yesterday's activities.

533
00:31:47,039 --> 00:31:49,920
Speaker 6: But the fear is that if the.

534
00:31:49,720 --> 00:31:53,480
Speaker 12: Remaining Venezuelan people in the country don't have sustained hope

535
00:31:53,480 --> 00:31:55,200
that things are going to get better and that it's

536
00:31:55,240 --> 00:31:58,160
not just Maduro but actually other senior officials from his

537
00:31:59,279 --> 00:32:01,839
regime are going to leave and that their lives will

538
00:32:01,839 --> 00:32:04,480
get better. There is fear that indeed you could have

539
00:32:04,519 --> 00:32:07,680
an additional migration flow and that would go directly into

540
00:32:07,680 --> 00:32:10,720
the neighboring countries like Colombia, like Brazil, and like countries

541
00:32:10,720 --> 00:32:14,000
in the Caribbean. So this is directly implicating some of

542
00:32:14,000 --> 00:32:15,880
the neighbors. There are other issues too, but that's for

543
00:32:15,960 --> 00:32:17,279
the moment, that's the primary one.

544
00:32:17,440 --> 00:32:22,240
Speaker 1: Yeah, So if you're a cocaine dealer, you're growing, you're processing,

545
00:32:22,319 --> 00:32:26,480
you're packaging cocaine, whatever, you're you're involved in the cocaine

546
00:32:26,519 --> 00:32:29,680
business and you're in Venezuela, where are you going to go?

547
00:32:29,839 --> 00:32:32,440
Are you going to go over to Colombia? Well, the

548
00:32:32,519 --> 00:32:37,400
problem there is Colombia is probably the biggest cocaine dealer

549
00:32:38,079 --> 00:32:42,359
exporter in the world, and is remember the president did

550
00:32:43,039 --> 00:32:47,400
pardon the former leader of Colombia and they were he

551
00:32:47,599 --> 00:32:54,000
was apparently involved with hundreds of pounds of cocaine shipments

552
00:32:55,039 --> 00:33:00,079
from Colombia out to the rest of the world. So

553
00:33:00,200 --> 00:33:04,200
what's going to happen there? Because business is business, and

554
00:33:04,279 --> 00:33:07,799
if you're happily doing your cocaine business in Colombia and

555
00:33:07,880 --> 00:33:10,799
all of a sudden the Venezuelan people trying to set

556
00:33:10,880 --> 00:33:14,759
up shop, that's not going to work well. And how

557
00:33:14,799 --> 00:33:19,759
long is this transition do whatever Venezuela is going to be?

558
00:33:20,240 --> 00:33:22,200
How long do you think that will take?

559
00:33:22,599 --> 00:33:25,039
Speaker 12: Yeah, that's a really important question. I don't have a

560
00:33:25,039 --> 00:33:28,599
specific time frame, but I would say sooner rather than later.

561
00:33:29,319 --> 00:33:32,880
For example, both the president elected Munda Gonzalez and Nobel

562
00:33:32,920 --> 00:33:36,480
Peace Prize winner Maria Karina Machado are outside of Venezuela.

563
00:33:36,839 --> 00:33:39,920
One would assume that they're going to return to Venezuela

564
00:33:39,920 --> 00:33:42,559
at some point relatively soon. That would certainly be a

565
00:33:42,599 --> 00:33:46,599
boost of energy and support for the opposition and for

566
00:33:46,720 --> 00:33:50,359
the government elect. But the longer it appears as if

567
00:33:50,359 --> 00:33:53,200
Delsia Rodriguez is going to remain as the de facto

568
00:33:53,440 --> 00:33:56,720
leader of the country and some of the officials around

569
00:33:56,759 --> 00:33:59,440
her like deos do al Cobeo and the head of

570
00:33:59,480 --> 00:34:02,680
the military, Padrina Lopez, some of those people who have

571
00:34:02,799 --> 00:34:05,960
bounties twenty five million dollars bounties remaining on their heads.

572
00:34:06,119 --> 00:34:08,800
The Venezuelan people, I think, are going to begin to question, well,

573
00:34:08,800 --> 00:34:11,280
what is the ultimate outcome of this? So I think

574
00:34:11,400 --> 00:34:13,800
even if there isn't a direct change in the next

575
00:34:14,360 --> 00:34:17,559
couple of days or even you know, weeks, I don't know,

576
00:34:17,639 --> 00:34:19,960
but there is going to have to be some really

577
00:34:19,960 --> 00:34:23,039
intensive signaling from the White House and from the State

578
00:34:23,079 --> 00:34:26,280
Department that fundamental change really is on the way, and

579
00:34:26,320 --> 00:34:29,400
it's not just about Maduro, but it's about his regime.

580
00:34:29,800 --> 00:34:33,119
Speaker 1: So back to the CIA station chief from Caracas, Rick

581
00:34:33,199 --> 00:34:38,639
Dalatory about what's going to happen next.

582
00:34:39,199 --> 00:34:41,519
Speaker 8: Well, I think the good news is and those that

583
00:34:41,639 --> 00:34:46,480
keep making these, in my opinion, false claims that this

584
00:34:46,599 --> 00:34:50,000
is another Iraq or Afghanistan. Let's keep in mind there's

585
00:34:50,119 --> 00:34:55,320
very few, if anyone, in Venezuela who's willing to lay

586
00:34:55,360 --> 00:34:57,880
their life down and be a martyr in any way,

587
00:34:57,880 --> 00:35:01,119
shape or form for Maduro and his politics. It's not ideology,

588
00:35:01,559 --> 00:35:05,400
most most of the military are poor conscripts that that

589
00:35:05,400 --> 00:35:08,320
that I pin paid or fed. They're more interested in

590
00:35:08,320 --> 00:35:11,559
going back to their home villages and just living their lives.

591
00:35:12,719 --> 00:35:15,159
The only folks that were really benefiting from this were

592
00:35:15,199 --> 00:35:17,639
the generals and some of these far out wild West

593
00:35:17,719 --> 00:35:20,360
kind of areas, so Baduro has never really had a

594
00:35:20,360 --> 00:35:23,880
lot of control full control of some of those areas.

595
00:35:24,559 --> 00:35:27,440
He's certainly benefited from the kickbacks and the money that

596
00:35:27,519 --> 00:35:29,639
his generals were giving them from the cartel of destus.

597
00:35:30,119 --> 00:35:30,480
Speaker 6: Uh.

598
00:35:30,559 --> 00:35:33,320
Speaker 8: But so so so this is an area that that

599
00:35:33,400 --> 00:35:36,960
it really is the wild West in the jungle, and

600
00:35:36,960 --> 00:35:39,599
and I'm not exactly sure how we're going to play

601
00:35:39,760 --> 00:35:42,599
in that, if if we'll even play at all. As

602
00:35:42,639 --> 00:35:45,800
for what kind of boots on the ground, uh, And

603
00:35:46,039 --> 00:35:49,039
I use that term very very loosely. I think certainly

604
00:35:49,039 --> 00:35:52,280
there's a role for for civil civil engineers and others

605
00:35:52,320 --> 00:35:56,159
to play in and infrastructure and kind of making sure

606
00:35:56,199 --> 00:35:58,840
that the lights are on the gases working those kinds

607
00:35:58,840 --> 00:36:01,760
of things. But I don't I don't see the kind

608
00:36:01,760 --> 00:36:08,719
of occupation type forces that some are are painting. It's

609
00:36:08,719 --> 00:36:10,880
a great day to celebrate, and they know this, right,

610
00:36:10,920 --> 00:36:14,440
you've seen it everywhere. I think they're a little confused

611
00:36:14,880 --> 00:36:17,320
by some folks who tell them that, you know, they're

612
00:36:17,320 --> 00:36:19,639
worried for them, or this is bad news in some way,

613
00:36:19,800 --> 00:36:23,119
and or that we apologize for you know, on behalf

614
00:36:23,239 --> 00:36:25,320
of the United States, they're you know, they're looking at

615
00:36:25,320 --> 00:36:27,280
them like you're nuts. This is we've been finding this

616
00:36:27,679 --> 00:36:31,000
for all over twenty years. You know, they went from

617
00:36:31,039 --> 00:36:32,960
being one of the wealthiest stations in our hemisphere to

618
00:36:33,000 --> 00:36:33,880
being one of the poorest.

619
00:36:34,719 --> 00:36:38,440
Speaker 1: And now there's our opportunity to join the real world again.

620
00:36:39,360 --> 00:36:41,159
So the bottom line out of all of this is

621
00:36:41,719 --> 00:36:43,559
it's too soon to tell. It's only been a couple

622
00:36:43,599 --> 00:36:47,800
of days. They're going to try and work with the

623
00:36:47,880 --> 00:36:51,880
people that are running the country right now, but basically

624
00:36:52,079 --> 00:36:56,320
saying you better behave or else. And they saw their

625
00:36:57,079 --> 00:36:59,039
colleague all of a sudden be picked up in the

626
00:36:59,039 --> 00:37:03,119
middle of the night and move to New York City.

627
00:37:04,119 --> 00:37:07,880
Speaking of Colombia, though, here's President Trump on Air Force

628
00:37:07,920 --> 00:37:11,920
one last night, going back to Washington from Florida talking

629
00:37:11,960 --> 00:37:13,840
about the head of Columbia.

630
00:37:14,440 --> 00:37:17,199
Speaker 9: Colombia is very sick too, run by a sick man

631
00:37:17,880 --> 00:37:20,960
who likes making cocaine and shalling it to the United States,

632
00:37:21,239 --> 00:37:22,920
and he's not going to be doing good very long.

633
00:37:23,199 --> 00:37:27,599
He has cocaine mills and cocaine factories, he's not going

634
00:37:27,639 --> 00:37:28,239
to be doing good.

635
00:37:28,159 --> 00:37:30,960
Speaker 6: For gener will be an operation by the US and Arkansas.

636
00:37:31,039 --> 00:37:33,000
It's good to be no.

637
00:37:33,239 --> 00:37:35,239
Speaker 1: The President says, he's got his site set on the

638
00:37:35,280 --> 00:37:39,800
guy that's running Colombia, and Colombia is a far bigger

639
00:37:40,119 --> 00:37:46,559
cocaine dealer than Venezuela, many times bigger. And so now

640
00:37:46,599 --> 00:37:48,599
we've got to watch and see what's going to happen there,

641
00:37:48,599 --> 00:37:51,679
whether those people start to change their way, and whether

642
00:37:51,840 --> 00:37:56,480
other countries and drug dealers, and it brings up Putin

643
00:37:56,760 --> 00:38:02,840
and trying to go in and Kidnappzelenski or she trying

644
00:38:02,880 --> 00:38:05,760
to go in and get the leader of Taiwan. I mean,

645
00:38:05,840 --> 00:38:08,840
you don't know what's going to be the reaction to

646
00:38:08,880 --> 00:38:11,400
all of this. We still have more questions than we

647
00:38:11,639 --> 00:38:15,559
have answers. But oil, everybody kept repeating the fact that

648
00:38:15,599 --> 00:38:20,800
it's true that Venezuela used to be a major oil producer.

649
00:38:21,519 --> 00:38:26,119
They're down substantially from where they used to be. But

650
00:38:26,760 --> 00:38:30,840
has this affected the markets today, Well, let's take a look.

651
00:38:31,599 --> 00:38:34,519
The stock market reacted in a very positive way. The

652
00:38:34,599 --> 00:38:40,679
Dow up five hundred and ninety four. I think this

653
00:38:40,880 --> 00:38:44,079
is a new record forty eight and nine seventy seven.

654
00:38:44,119 --> 00:38:47,320
We're closing in on fifty thousand on the Dow. The

655
00:38:47,440 --> 00:38:50,400
S and P up forty four, the Nasdaq up one

656
00:38:50,440 --> 00:38:55,639
hundred and sixty, Gold up one hundred and twenty four

657
00:38:55,719 --> 00:38:59,679
dollars to four thousand and four to fifty four. And

658
00:39:00,119 --> 00:39:04,280
the price of oil, which is the big commodity everybody's watching,

659
00:39:04,719 --> 00:39:08,320
it was up a buck, that's it, so the oil

660
00:39:08,400 --> 00:39:13,039
markets weren't doing much of a reaction now at fifty

661
00:39:13,079 --> 00:39:17,480
eight dollars for one barrel of oil. That's it for today.

662
00:39:17,880 --> 00:39:21,800
Thank you for coming by. We will be back again tomorrow.

663
00:39:21,840 --> 00:39:22,599
Hope to see you this