WEBVTT 1 00:00:10.560 --> 00:00:15.240 Hello, everyone, Welcome to the Tolkien Road. John here, Greta. 2 00:00:15.400 --> 00:00:15.919 How you doing. 3 00:00:16.120 --> 00:00:18.879 Hey, yeah, I'm doing pretty good. How are you doing? 4 00:00:19.440 --> 00:00:20.399 I'm doing pretty well. 5 00:00:20.519 --> 00:00:21.359 Yeah. Yeah. 6 00:00:21.359 --> 00:00:25.120 It's been a bit of busy last like twenty four 7 00:00:25.120 --> 00:00:30.320 hours for me, but I have emerged from the darkness 8 00:00:30.320 --> 00:00:33.960 of my work emergency ready to record another episode. So 9 00:00:34.079 --> 00:00:34.439 hi for what. 10 00:00:34.520 --> 00:00:35.719 I'm glad that you have emerged. 11 00:00:35.960 --> 00:00:41.119 I for two. I'm glad. Yeah, yes, episode one six 12 00:00:41.240 --> 00:00:46.679 Spiritual Insights from Tolkien that will change your life. So 13 00:00:46.719 --> 00:00:49.560 that's what we're gonna be talking about today. Let me 14 00:00:49.600 --> 00:00:54.359 begin by saying that we were supposed to record this episode, 15 00:00:54.359 --> 00:00:57.320 was supposed to be with David Bates from Pines with 16 00:00:57.439 --> 00:01:02.200 Jack the cs Lewis Podcast, but unfortunately, because of my 17 00:01:02.240 --> 00:01:04.480 work emergency, we had to kind of I didn't get 18 00:01:04.480 --> 00:01:06.920 the time to prepare that I normally get, so we 19 00:01:06.959 --> 00:01:09.040 had to reschedule that with David. So we will be 20 00:01:09.079 --> 00:01:14.319 doing that episode hopefully, you know, sometime in the next 21 00:01:14.799 --> 00:01:18.920 you know, next few episodes here pretty soon. So you 22 00:01:18.959 --> 00:01:21.959 should go check out Pines with Jack regardless. If you 23 00:01:22.000 --> 00:01:24.560 are a Tolkien fan, then you should know more about C. S. Lewis, 24 00:01:24.920 --> 00:01:26.640 and you might already be a CS Lewis fan and 25 00:01:26.680 --> 00:01:28.400 therefore you should just go check it out anyway, So 26 00:01:28.640 --> 00:01:34.560 word check it. Thanks to our patrons as always, you 27 00:01:34.599 --> 00:01:37.760 guys rock. And if you are not a patron and 28 00:01:37.760 --> 00:01:40.599 would like to become a patron, head on over to tolkienoad 29 00:01:40.519 --> 00:01:44.959 dot com slash donate or go to patreon dot com 30 00:01:44.959 --> 00:01:49.480 slash Tolkien Road and you can become a patron. Don't 31 00:01:49.519 --> 00:01:52.560 take a lot, We'll take what you can give, right, Yeah, 32 00:01:52.599 --> 00:01:53.439 that's the way it works. 33 00:01:53.920 --> 00:01:54.799 That's the way it works. 34 00:01:54.840 --> 00:01:57.359 And hey, by the way, uh, when you're able to 35 00:01:57.840 --> 00:01:59.560 when you're able to donate, you get me that much 36 00:01:59.599 --> 00:02:02.280 closer to being able to devote more time to doing 37 00:02:02.280 --> 00:02:04.840 the Tolkien Roads, so I don't have to cancel uh 38 00:02:05.519 --> 00:02:07.519 guest appearances at the last minute. Then maybe we're looking 39 00:02:07.519 --> 00:02:10.240 forward to So oh I like, I like how you 40 00:02:10.280 --> 00:02:14.960 spun that little little sales pitch there. Yeah right, yeah, 41 00:02:15.120 --> 00:02:18.520 chi ching rolling in let it rain, all right, So 42 00:02:19.479 --> 00:02:22.120 please also rate us on iTunes. Head on over there, 43 00:02:22.199 --> 00:02:24.520 leave us a five star rating and say some nice 44 00:02:24.520 --> 00:02:25.199 things about us. 45 00:02:26.000 --> 00:02:29.719 Please nice be nice keyword there is nice. Yeah, kind 46 00:02:30.360 --> 00:02:34.280 we're nice be nice here, but still kind yeah yeah. 47 00:02:34.400 --> 00:02:37.080 Kind of world needs a lot more nice people right now. 48 00:02:37.120 --> 00:02:38.879 You need a lot of nice people. 49 00:02:38.919 --> 00:02:41.639 All right, we'd love to hear from you. Send us 50 00:02:41.680 --> 00:02:45.439 correspondence at Tolkien Roadpodcast at gmail dot com, or go 51 00:02:45.479 --> 00:02:47.560 to our website. Leave a comment on the episode you 52 00:02:47.560 --> 00:02:51.159 listen to. Uh, you can leave comments on past episodes 53 00:02:51.280 --> 00:02:53.319 anyone you want to, so you know, if you're one 54 00:02:53.360 --> 00:02:55.400 of those people who's catching up or caught up or 55 00:02:55.840 --> 00:02:58.240 you know, something like that. It's always weird because people 56 00:02:58.280 --> 00:02:59.680 catch up and then they you know, they maybe had 57 00:02:59.719 --> 00:03:01.680 all these comments and didn't know about like where things 58 00:03:01.680 --> 00:03:04.439 stand now. We're trying to make it become more of 59 00:03:04.479 --> 00:03:07.000 a podcast where you can be in touch with what 60 00:03:07.000 --> 00:03:08.680 we're doing right now, but also go back and listen 61 00:03:08.719 --> 00:03:11.319 to the old episodes. So I don't know if that 62 00:03:11.360 --> 00:03:13.840 works super well from our listener's perspective, maybe we need 63 00:03:13.840 --> 00:03:16.879 to start like a separate spinoff podcast that's more of 64 00:03:16.919 --> 00:03:20.439 like what's happening now? I don't know, but anyway, you 65 00:03:20.520 --> 00:03:24.319 lost me anyway, never mind? Then okay, all right? Facebook, Twitter, 66 00:03:24.400 --> 00:03:26.960 Yeah all that, So then speak Pipe, don't forget about 67 00:03:26.960 --> 00:03:29.280 speak Pipe. You can send us a voicemail via speak 68 00:03:29.319 --> 00:03:31.719 Pipe on the website, and if you do you will 69 00:03:31.719 --> 00:03:34.240 be heard on the next episode, your voice and everything, 70 00:03:35.080 --> 00:03:37.800 all right, don't forget to head on over to YouTube 71 00:03:37.840 --> 00:03:41.159 and subscribe to the Tolkien Road channel over there. There's 72 00:03:41.159 --> 00:03:44.240 an eight part guide to the Filmarillion. That is our 73 00:03:44.280 --> 00:03:47.120 newest thing over there, and we're gonna be doing more 74 00:03:47.280 --> 00:03:50.000 more videos coming over there. I should really say me 75 00:03:50.039 --> 00:03:52.439 because Greta has no desire to participate in the YouTube 76 00:03:52.599 --> 00:03:55.759 aspect of things, which I you know, I can't blame 77 00:03:55.759 --> 00:03:57.639 her for, but you know, I think she would be 78 00:03:57.639 --> 00:03:58.520 a star over there. 79 00:03:58.560 --> 00:04:00.639 But you know you're trying to do. 80 00:04:00.879 --> 00:04:02.000 Yeah, but. 81 00:04:03.599 --> 00:04:05.879 You know, I'm quite content with the podcast. 82 00:04:06.319 --> 00:04:07.719 More glory, more glory for me. 83 00:04:08.159 --> 00:04:11.120 That's right, That's right, and it's deserved glory. 84 00:04:11.240 --> 00:04:16.600 Oh, thank you? Yeah, okay, all right, I will. So 85 00:04:18.720 --> 00:04:20.319 we're going to be current planning for the next few 86 00:04:20.360 --> 00:04:23.120 episodes were we will get back to that episode with 87 00:04:23.240 --> 00:04:26.319 David Bates of Pintes with Jack before too long, and 88 00:04:27.199 --> 00:04:30.600 we are on the on next the next one. We're 89 00:04:30.600 --> 00:04:33.199 planning to look into Tolkien's political views. So last episode 90 00:04:33.199 --> 00:04:36.480 we looked at Tolkien's it was called Tolkien versus the Nazis, 91 00:04:36.519 --> 00:04:38.639 and it was, you know, look into his real like 92 00:04:38.720 --> 00:04:43.879 contempt and you know, uh, just disdain for Nazi and 93 00:04:44.279 --> 00:04:47.720 race racist ideology, and uh, I thought that was pretty 94 00:04:47.720 --> 00:04:51.199 fascinating exploration, Greta. This one is going to be this 95 00:04:51.399 --> 00:04:53.040 We're going to look at his actual I guess you 96 00:04:53.040 --> 00:04:55.360 could call them positive political views, not that he was 97 00:04:55.399 --> 00:04:58.720 a particularly political version person. He certainly wasn't an activist, 98 00:04:58.879 --> 00:05:00.879 but he still did express a lot of interesting things 99 00:05:00.879 --> 00:05:02.920 in his letters. And I think there's other there's other 100 00:05:02.959 --> 00:05:05.240 things we can explore from his own works, like other 101 00:05:05.279 --> 00:05:08.399 aspects of his fictional works that could maybe speak to 102 00:05:08.439 --> 00:05:11.199 what his if he had a political philosophy, like what 103 00:05:11.279 --> 00:05:12.079 might it have looked like? 104 00:05:12.560 --> 00:05:15.639 So oh, so we're gonna talk politics. 105 00:05:15.519 --> 00:05:19.360 Well, not not politics in a contemporary sense, okay, because 106 00:05:19.399 --> 00:05:20.920 we really try to steer clear of like. 107 00:05:20.920 --> 00:05:23.839 I was going to say, I hate politics, we'll hate them, 108 00:05:24.000 --> 00:05:28.000 you and me, you and me both, but but more 109 00:05:28.040 --> 00:05:32.600 of like what did his political because once upon a time, 110 00:05:32.759 --> 00:05:34.759 like political philosophy. 111 00:05:34.319 --> 00:05:38.240 Like you know, was I don't know, it seemed a 112 00:05:38.240 --> 00:05:42.759 little more thoughtful than it does now, like and and 113 00:05:42.920 --> 00:05:45.160 I just think from what I know of his views, 114 00:05:46.240 --> 00:05:48.319 I think it'll think I think it'll be a pretty 115 00:05:48.319 --> 00:05:51.800 interesting topic and help us get closer, uh, you know, 116 00:05:51.839 --> 00:05:53.519 again to his own heart, which is a lot of 117 00:05:54.000 --> 00:05:56.560 what this podcast is about. Okay, fair enough, So just 118 00:05:56.560 --> 00:05:59.000 come to it with an open mind, and you know, 119 00:05:59.199 --> 00:06:01.079 no no hackles or anything like that. We're not going 120 00:06:01.160 --> 00:06:04.279 to get into any modern politics or anything like that. 121 00:06:04.319 --> 00:06:06.399 It's just gonna be more of a discussion of you 122 00:06:06.399 --> 00:06:09.480 know what, what what were his general views in that area? 123 00:06:09.600 --> 00:06:14.120 So all right, and then we'll also we'll be doing 124 00:06:14.120 --> 00:06:16.839 some other interesting things, and then we've got a two 125 00:06:16.879 --> 00:06:19.639 hundredth episode coming up. Well I've got something I think 126 00:06:19.680 --> 00:06:23.560 a little fun planned for that. Oh not too fun, 127 00:06:24.120 --> 00:06:28.399 too boring to be too fun, but but fun in 128 00:06:28.439 --> 00:06:32.120 my book. And then lots of third age discussion coming 129 00:06:32.120 --> 00:06:36.879 after that. So yeah, all right, sounds good. All right, So, Greta, 130 00:06:37.040 --> 00:06:40.160 we're going to talk about this little thing I made 131 00:06:40.240 --> 00:06:44.199 called six Spiritual Insights from Reading Tolkien. It's actually six 132 00:06:44.199 --> 00:06:48.040 spiritual insights from Tolkien that will change your life. So 133 00:06:49.639 --> 00:06:53.199 I want to say that this is actually a little 134 00:06:53.199 --> 00:06:55.759 mini book, mini guide PDF thing that I made a 135 00:06:55.759 --> 00:06:59.040 few years ago, and I lost track of it for 136 00:06:59.079 --> 00:07:01.120 a while, but then I was I found it and 137 00:07:01.279 --> 00:07:03.279 I wanted to get it back out there for people 138 00:07:03.360 --> 00:07:05.959 to have. If you'd like this, you can head on 139 00:07:06.040 --> 00:07:10.759 over to tolkienoad dot com slash spirit and that's where 140 00:07:10.759 --> 00:07:12.680 you can find the guide and find out how to 141 00:07:12.680 --> 00:07:14.959 download it over there. So that's all you gotta go 142 00:07:15.000 --> 00:07:18.199 tolkienrooad dot com slash spirit and you can check that 143 00:07:18.199 --> 00:07:20.439 out and follow along with our discussion, or if you 144 00:07:20.639 --> 00:07:23.000 listen to our discussion, just go and then you like 145 00:07:23.079 --> 00:07:24.560 it and you want to know more about what's what's 146 00:07:24.560 --> 00:07:27.519 in there, head on over that tolkienoad dot com slash spirit. 147 00:07:27.959 --> 00:07:32.800 So all right, all right, so it's you know, and 148 00:07:33.480 --> 00:07:36.319 here's the other thing. It's been a pretty dark few weeks, 149 00:07:37.079 --> 00:07:40.040 you know, especially here in the United States, and then 150 00:07:40.079 --> 00:07:41.959 this is of course coming on was already kind of 151 00:07:41.959 --> 00:07:44.839 a dark period in a lot of ways with the 152 00:07:44.839 --> 00:07:48.680 the COVID nineteen crisis, and that's really going on throughout 153 00:07:48.720 --> 00:07:53.199 the world. So I really think that, you know, one 154 00:07:53.199 --> 00:07:55.079 of the themes of Tolkien, one of the great spiritual 155 00:07:55.079 --> 00:07:59.040 themes of Tolkien is that out of tremendous darkness, out 156 00:07:59.079 --> 00:08:04.079 of the shadow, good arrives right like, like, we can 157 00:08:04.120 --> 00:08:06.560 find we can find the good, we can find unity, 158 00:08:06.600 --> 00:08:10.160 we can find we can find peace. We can find 159 00:08:10.360 --> 00:08:15.279 beautiful things right emerging from that darkness, true and lasting light. 160 00:08:15.879 --> 00:08:19.839 And that's that's one of the reasons that you know, 161 00:08:19.879 --> 00:08:21.439 I thought it might be a good time to spend 162 00:08:21.439 --> 00:08:23.360 a little time here because I think there's a lot 163 00:08:23.399 --> 00:08:27.040 of reasons to feel maybe discouraged. There's a lot of 164 00:08:27.079 --> 00:08:29.720 reasons to feel even despair for a lot of people 165 00:08:29.759 --> 00:08:34.799 right now. And Tolkien's worldview was one that went into 166 00:08:35.679 --> 00:08:37.320 you know, it really went into the depths of like 167 00:08:38.559 --> 00:08:43.799 some really dark places. But there's always that aspect of 168 00:08:43.840 --> 00:08:46.879 the greater light above it. There's always that aspect of 169 00:08:46.919 --> 00:08:49.600 this there's some light that sits above all the darkness, 170 00:08:49.639 --> 00:08:53.679 that's unquenchable and and that ultimately in the end will 171 00:08:53.720 --> 00:08:57.320 win right, that has the final say. Even when things 172 00:08:57.320 --> 00:08:59.559 look their darkness, that's maybe when it's about to turn 173 00:09:00.159 --> 00:09:05.759 right yep, in some magnificent way. So I you know, 174 00:09:05.840 --> 00:09:09.000 I just hope everybody in this in this episode can 175 00:09:09.039 --> 00:09:11.919 find what is that heroism that you're being called to, 176 00:09:12.000 --> 00:09:14.480 that like kind of ordinary heroism that you're being called to, 177 00:09:14.919 --> 00:09:17.039 and maybe this will help you find that. That's I know, 178 00:09:17.080 --> 00:09:19.480 that's what Tolkien has been to me in a lot 179 00:09:19.480 --> 00:09:22.639 of ways over the years. And one of the reasons 180 00:09:22.720 --> 00:09:25.120 I love his outlook so much is because he helps you. 181 00:09:26.039 --> 00:09:28.039 He helps you maybe better discern your path to being 182 00:09:28.080 --> 00:09:30.879 this ordinary hero, not not somebody who's like, look at me, 183 00:09:31.000 --> 00:09:33.440 I'm so awesome, you know, like like so many people 184 00:09:33.440 --> 00:09:37.039 can be these days. Right, you know, I'm so wonderful. 185 00:09:37.080 --> 00:09:38.279 You just need to follow me and I'll tell you 186 00:09:38.320 --> 00:09:41.759 how everything gets done. This was a guy who was 187 00:09:41.919 --> 00:09:45.759 just writing books and shared some thoughts, but wrote something 188 00:09:45.799 --> 00:09:50.000 beautiful because he kind of didn't care what everybody else thought. Right, 189 00:09:50.679 --> 00:09:53.200 But he followed his call, yep, and he did something 190 00:09:53.240 --> 00:09:58.919 amazing for the world. Right. So, so, yeah, why I 191 00:09:58.960 --> 00:10:03.120 wrote this, it's really this pdf, this little mini guide 192 00:10:03.159 --> 00:10:05.279 is really it's about what drew me. It what drew 193 00:10:05.320 --> 00:10:08.559 me to Tolkien in the first place. It's not really 194 00:10:08.600 --> 00:10:11.679 for me. It's never been for me about the the 195 00:10:11.759 --> 00:10:13.879 dungeons and dragons, if you will, right. 196 00:10:13.919 --> 00:10:16.440 The fantasy part of it is that what you yeah. 197 00:10:16.919 --> 00:10:19.519 Yeah, like. And don't get me wrong, I like all 198 00:10:19.519 --> 00:10:22.559 that stuff. I think that stuff's cool, right yeah, but 199 00:10:24.039 --> 00:10:26.759 it's it's not like Tolkien exists for me. And you 200 00:10:26.879 --> 00:10:29.519 obviously know this. You'll obviously know this because this is 201 00:10:29.559 --> 00:10:32.360 episode one seven of a podcast just about Tolkien. But 202 00:10:32.440 --> 00:10:35.919 it's not like Tolkien is just like another like fantasy author. 203 00:10:36.000 --> 00:10:41.080 For me, there's something much greater, much deeper in his 204 00:10:41.159 --> 00:10:44.279 works than I find in most other works of that genre. 205 00:10:45.080 --> 00:10:47.320 And and I think a lot of the people who 206 00:10:47.360 --> 00:10:50.480 work in that genre would salute him in that way too, Right, 207 00:10:51.120 --> 00:10:56.279 So lost my place, All right, there we go, So 208 00:10:56.720 --> 00:10:58.720 I would call that why I wrote this is really 209 00:10:58.759 --> 00:11:01.480 I wanted to explore a little bit more and share 210 00:11:01.480 --> 00:11:04.360 with you all the philosophical, moral, and spiritual fibers of 211 00:11:04.399 --> 00:11:11.200 his works, right, those underlying, those underlying, undergirding aspects of 212 00:11:11.399 --> 00:11:13.399 the stories of Middle Earth and the other writings that 213 00:11:13.440 --> 00:11:16.600 he had, and get to things that can actually be 214 00:11:16.639 --> 00:11:20.440 transformative for our lives, right, that can actually pull us 215 00:11:20.440 --> 00:11:22.759 out of a dark place, that can actually give us 216 00:11:22.759 --> 00:11:28.759 hope for the future, that can transform who we are 217 00:11:28.840 --> 00:11:32.080 and help us find meaning, right, a deeper and greater meaning, right, 218 00:11:32.120 --> 00:11:39.360 and a lasting meaning to a meaning that even transcends death. Right. So, 219 00:11:39.360 --> 00:11:42.600 so that's where I'm coming from. Thoughts. 220 00:11:45.960 --> 00:11:51.279 No, I think that's I mean, no, I think it's good. Okay, 221 00:11:51.440 --> 00:11:54.840 I think I think that's a really beautiful even right on. 222 00:11:54.960 --> 00:11:59.440 Okay, first point, first section, Who we are subcreators? 223 00:11:59.519 --> 00:11:59.759 All? 224 00:12:00.679 --> 00:12:04.039 So what did this section say to you, Greta? 225 00:12:04.799 --> 00:12:11.159 Well, it basically said to me that, well, obviously, subcreation 226 00:12:11.480 --> 00:12:17.279 is a very Tolkenian term, right. It's the idea that 227 00:12:17.279 --> 00:12:25.279 that we all in some way participate in creation, obviously 228 00:12:25.360 --> 00:12:29.440 not in the original creation that was by God or 229 00:12:29.480 --> 00:12:36.720 in the Stilmarlion by heru, right, but that we all 230 00:12:36.840 --> 00:12:41.919 are called to to share our creative gifts in one 231 00:12:41.919 --> 00:12:45.159 way or another. And and that means different things for 232 00:12:45.240 --> 00:12:52.639 different people. So it's kind of it's something that we 233 00:12:52.720 --> 00:12:55.559 need to be on the lookout for, something that we 234 00:12:55.559 --> 00:12:57.559 need to be discerning, like what are my gifts? How 235 00:12:57.600 --> 00:13:03.399 can I contribute and positive way right to enhance and 236 00:13:03.600 --> 00:13:08.639 protect the creation that's that we have been given? 237 00:13:09.200 --> 00:13:12.799 Yeah, yeah, here's that's good. Here's the here's the quote 238 00:13:12.799 --> 00:13:14.840 I picked out to support this and each each there's 239 00:13:14.879 --> 00:13:18.840 six sections in this thing, right, six insights U. Okay, 240 00:13:19.039 --> 00:13:21.679 So here's the quote I picked out for this first 241 00:13:21.679 --> 00:13:24.879 section on subcreators all. So great is the bounty with 242 00:13:24.919 --> 00:13:27.360 which man has been treated that he may now perhaps 243 00:13:27.759 --> 00:13:30.600 fairly dare to guess that in fantasy, he may actually 244 00:13:30.600 --> 00:13:34.200 assist in the affoliation and multiple enrichment of creation. That's 245 00:13:34.240 --> 00:13:36.720 like the last I think that's the very last line 246 00:13:36.759 --> 00:13:40.559 of on fairy Stories, or close to it. And it's 247 00:13:40.600 --> 00:13:43.120 it's a little bit I mean, Tolkien was nothing if 248 00:13:43.159 --> 00:13:48.080 he wasn't a little bit wordy at times. But if 249 00:13:48.120 --> 00:13:50.639 you break that quote down, it's really so beautiful because 250 00:13:50.679 --> 00:13:53.879 it talks it basically says that we as human beings 251 00:13:53.960 --> 00:13:59.440 have this incredible dignity that we get to participate in 252 00:13:59.440 --> 00:14:02.679 in the in the like and like the create, like 253 00:14:02.720 --> 00:14:05.960 the ultimate creative act. And and you're right, it's not 254 00:14:06.120 --> 00:14:08.639 like we're God and we made everything out of nothing, 255 00:14:09.120 --> 00:14:11.679 but at the same time, like we we seem to 256 00:14:11.679 --> 00:14:15.519 participate in in the creative act of God in a 257 00:14:15.559 --> 00:14:20.679 way that's utterly unique. Right, we do things as human 258 00:14:20.720 --> 00:14:24.480 beings that the other creatures on this planet, which is 259 00:14:24.519 --> 00:14:26.399 all the creatures we know about, are are. 260 00:14:26.360 --> 00:14:29.799 Incapable of becas we're made in the image of God. Right, 261 00:14:30.240 --> 00:14:31.840 and we all have immortal souls. 262 00:14:32.039 --> 00:14:34.879 Right, And and I would even go so far. You know, 263 00:14:35.120 --> 00:14:36.840 it's been a while since I actually wrote this, but 264 00:14:36.879 --> 00:14:39.679 as I've thought more about some different things, I would 265 00:14:39.679 --> 00:14:42.600 even go so far as to say that we are 266 00:14:43.480 --> 00:14:52.000 like creation. Creation is something that's in progress. Like there's 267 00:14:52.039 --> 00:14:54.759 a I read a really startling thought a little while 268 00:14:54.840 --> 00:14:57.360 ago that basically said, like, if you kind of break 269 00:14:57.399 --> 00:14:59.240 it down, we're not We're I'm not getting into like, 270 00:14:59.399 --> 00:15:01.399 you know, nobody misinterpret my words is the thing I'm 271 00:15:01.399 --> 00:15:05.399 getting to, like, you know, like literalism in the Bible 272 00:15:05.480 --> 00:15:08.279 or anything like that, Like a literalistic interpretation. But if 273 00:15:08.279 --> 00:15:10.679 we kind of just like look at you know, the 274 00:15:10.919 --> 00:15:14.480 the meaning, you know, the whatever you want to call it, 275 00:15:14.480 --> 00:15:17.840 the allegorical, their poetic meaning or whatever of the first 276 00:15:17.840 --> 00:15:20.720 text of the first chapter of Genesis. You've got these 277 00:15:20.759 --> 00:15:22.919 six days of creation, and on the sixth day you 278 00:15:22.960 --> 00:15:25.159 have man, and then on the seventh day God rests. 279 00:15:25.679 --> 00:15:30.039 And in that I read this amazing quote that basically 280 00:15:30.080 --> 00:15:32.600 put out there that like we still are in the 281 00:15:32.679 --> 00:15:35.840 sixth day. So in other words, like you see all 282 00:15:35.879 --> 00:15:38.960 seven days of history and then like on the seventh 283 00:15:39.039 --> 00:15:41.639 day God comes to arrest and everything seems to be 284 00:15:41.679 --> 00:15:45.279 all good, and that maybe we're still in that sixth day, right, 285 00:15:45.399 --> 00:15:48.799 that maybe we are in the process of being created ourselves, 286 00:15:48.879 --> 00:15:54.639 and part of that process is our own participation in creativity, right, Yeah, 287 00:15:55.159 --> 00:15:57.519 that part of and think about it. You see this 288 00:15:57.559 --> 00:16:00.600 reflected in the story of I know Linda, right in 289 00:16:00.639 --> 00:16:03.279 the story of the ire right, because he creates these 290 00:16:03.320 --> 00:16:11.679 beings that he then tasks with completing his creation, right, Yes, 291 00:16:12.399 --> 00:16:15.759 it is. Yeah, So I mean this gives this incredible 292 00:16:18.600 --> 00:16:21.200 it gives this incredible significance and this incredible dignity to 293 00:16:21.679 --> 00:16:24.720 you know, to the labor of our hands, and and 294 00:16:24.720 --> 00:16:28.559 and I think that extends not just to like kind 295 00:16:28.559 --> 00:16:32.080 of traditional things we think of as creative artistic endeavors 296 00:16:32.120 --> 00:16:34.480 and so forth, but I think it actually extends to 297 00:16:35.320 --> 00:16:38.120 you know, everything we give ourselves to as human beings. 298 00:16:38.080 --> 00:16:40.159 Right, all of our work, right, because not all of 299 00:16:40.200 --> 00:16:43.240 us are called to what is typically thought of as 300 00:16:43.320 --> 00:16:48.399 the creative you know, the creative pursuits, right, Whereas you know, 301 00:16:48.080 --> 00:16:51.159 I'm guilty of thinking of being creative as being well, 302 00:16:51.200 --> 00:16:53.240 I'm not a good writer, and I'm not a good 303 00:16:53.639 --> 00:16:55.519 you know, musician, and I don't draw. 304 00:16:55.759 --> 00:16:58.600 Well, you're a decent musician, okay, music, you give yourself 305 00:16:58.679 --> 00:16:59.240 enough credit there. 306 00:16:59.320 --> 00:17:04.279 I don't anyway, I don't consider myself the creative type. 307 00:17:04.480 --> 00:17:06.279 Yeah, let me say I feel you. 308 00:17:06.480 --> 00:17:10.839 But so it's really so I love that interpretation and 309 00:17:10.920 --> 00:17:15.720 being like, well, you know, I'm a nurse, so that's 310 00:17:15.759 --> 00:17:17.759 the gift, you know, I I am creat Like I 311 00:17:17.799 --> 00:17:20.680 don't have to be an artist, you know in the 312 00:17:20.720 --> 00:17:25.759 traditional sense to be an active participant in this you know, 313 00:17:25.839 --> 00:17:32.160 effort of subcreation, but that I am contributing in the 314 00:17:32.200 --> 00:17:33.240 work that I'm called to. 315 00:17:33.759 --> 00:17:38.039 Yeah, boom, yeah. That that's I mean, that's exactly what 316 00:17:38.039 --> 00:17:40.000 I'm getting at, right, And I think there's something to 317 00:17:40.000 --> 00:17:42.079 be said. I think Leaf by Nigols shows us that 318 00:17:43.799 --> 00:17:45.960 maybe there was an inside that Tolkien head somewhere along 319 00:17:46.000 --> 00:17:48.480 the way that you know, it was like it's not 320 00:17:48.559 --> 00:17:51.400 just our like kind of the creative acts either, but 321 00:17:51.640 --> 00:17:55.400 like the the mo it's maybe like the moral acts, right, 322 00:17:55.440 --> 00:17:59.240 It's it's maybe the acts of heroism, the acts of uh, 323 00:17:59.720 --> 00:18:02.359 you know, the acts of self sacrifice that are perhaps 324 00:18:02.400 --> 00:18:05.039 like the even greater creative acts, right, that are the 325 00:18:05.119 --> 00:18:08.119 like highest creative acts we can actually partake in, right, 326 00:18:08.440 --> 00:18:11.279 because in doing so we give ourselves to the life 327 00:18:11.319 --> 00:18:13.319 of another right, We give ourselves for the life of 328 00:18:13.359 --> 00:18:14.039 another right. 329 00:18:14.279 --> 00:18:16.160 That is exactly the model that Christ laid up. 330 00:18:16.279 --> 00:18:19.640 Which if that's true, then motherhood is like you could 331 00:18:19.680 --> 00:18:22.440 possily have right, yes, so give yourself some credit. He's all, 332 00:18:22.480 --> 00:18:28.440 I'm saying, right, but I had a good thought and 333 00:18:28.440 --> 00:18:33.400 then I lost it. But anyway, you're a mean cook also, 334 00:18:33.559 --> 00:18:37.240 so uh, you're really good. So you're you know that's 335 00:18:37.240 --> 00:18:41.359 something I can't do well. All right, moving on, uh 336 00:18:41.720 --> 00:18:44.440 Insight number two, the way things really work. In letter 337 00:18:44.480 --> 00:18:47.920 eighty nine, Tolkien said, I remember saying aloud with absolute conviction, 338 00:18:48.279 --> 00:18:51.000 but of course, of course that's how things really do work. 339 00:18:51.519 --> 00:18:54.519 We actually did an episode on this particular letter. 340 00:18:54.599 --> 00:18:57.160 I believe I remember talking about that, and I remember 341 00:18:57.160 --> 00:18:59.960 the mental image that that. I still have that ment, 342 00:19:00.039 --> 00:19:03.480 whole image of Tolgan and riding his bike, you know, 343 00:19:03.559 --> 00:19:07.359 down the street in England, passed an infirmary, and then 344 00:19:07.400 --> 00:19:10.839 he's just like, ah, he has a light bulb right moment. 345 00:19:11.000 --> 00:19:13.799 He's like, oh, yeah, of course of course that's how 346 00:19:13.880 --> 00:19:14.920 things really do work. 347 00:19:15.039 --> 00:19:15.240 I know. 348 00:19:15.279 --> 00:19:17.599 It's I just love like, I just I just love it. 349 00:19:17.599 --> 00:19:19.519 It's I just feel like it's classic Tolkien. 350 00:19:19.839 --> 00:19:22.759 I know, it's it's such it's such a great like 351 00:19:22.880 --> 00:19:25.720 mental image, you know, like yeah, you almost want there 352 00:19:25.720 --> 00:19:28.400 to be like a like a movie made about just 353 00:19:28.440 --> 00:19:31.519 like that one that one episode. Do you so you 354 00:19:31.519 --> 00:19:35.839 can see it for your with your own eyes. But yeah, 355 00:19:36.039 --> 00:19:38.920 his basic insight here is that resurrection is the way 356 00:19:38.960 --> 00:19:43.559 things really work. That and he spoke about this in 357 00:19:43.599 --> 00:19:51.240 other places. He he was riding, he was riding near 358 00:19:51.279 --> 00:19:55.039 an infirmary and he looks at this in front of infirmary. 359 00:19:55.319 --> 00:19:57.119 You know, we don't you normally use that word in 360 00:19:57.200 --> 00:19:59.319 the US. It's the hospital, right, it's a place for 361 00:19:59.440 --> 00:20:03.079 sick people. And and he's writing by this place which is 362 00:20:03.079 --> 00:20:05.680 maybe not thought of as a particularly like happy place, 363 00:20:06.000 --> 00:20:07.759 and then all of a sudden he just has this epiphany. 364 00:20:07.799 --> 00:20:09.839 It's like it came out of nowhere from heaven, right, 365 00:20:10.279 --> 00:20:13.319 and he just is like, of course that's the way 366 00:20:13.359 --> 00:20:16.359 things really work. Like death, Death doesn't have the final say, right, 367 00:20:16.839 --> 00:20:19.000 death is actually the thing that leads to new and 368 00:20:19.039 --> 00:20:26.960 greater life through the power of Christ's resurrection. Yep. And yeah, 369 00:20:27.000 --> 00:20:29.359 it's just a really it's just a really cool little 370 00:20:29.359 --> 00:20:31.839 episode in one of those things that like, I think 371 00:20:31.960 --> 00:20:35.119 it's so it's so important to remember. It's the thing 372 00:20:35.160 --> 00:20:39.119 that has been such a consolation to me as a 373 00:20:39.200 --> 00:20:45.039 Christian for so long, Right, is this this foundational thing 374 00:20:45.119 --> 00:20:50.880 that like death cannot hold the power of love and 375 00:20:50.920 --> 00:20:53.720 the power and the power of Christ right, and that 376 00:20:55.160 --> 00:20:58.920 in his own crucifixion it led to resurrection and broke 377 00:20:59.000 --> 00:21:01.759 up and broke up and the bonds of death right. 378 00:21:02.279 --> 00:21:06.160 It's set mankind free right. And so our lot, our 379 00:21:06.200 --> 00:21:09.799 lot in this lives, in this life, is to realize 380 00:21:09.839 --> 00:21:13.920 that freedom and to live in that freedom, live in 381 00:21:13.920 --> 00:21:15.119 the light of that freedom. Yeah, I live in the 382 00:21:15.200 --> 00:21:18.160 light of that freedom, all right. The next insight is 383 00:21:18.960 --> 00:21:22.519 number three, the cure for spiritual depression, So Tolkien said 384 00:21:22.559 --> 00:21:24.599 in letter two to fifty, the only cure for sagging 385 00:21:24.599 --> 00:21:29.200 of fainting faith is communion. So, at one point or another, 386 00:21:29.240 --> 00:21:32.319 we all go through periods of spiritual darkness in our lives. 387 00:21:32.480 --> 00:21:35.000 And you may call it depression, but I'd even go 388 00:21:35.039 --> 00:21:37.240 so far as to call it an existential bleakness, a 389 00:21:37.319 --> 00:21:39.759 period wherein the beliefs we've built our lives on are 390 00:21:39.759 --> 00:21:44.279 put to the test. But Tolkien was a big believer 391 00:21:44.359 --> 00:21:46.680 in the power of the Eucharist as a Catholic. It 392 00:21:46.720 --> 00:21:50.720 was the center of his faith, and so in letter 393 00:21:50.720 --> 00:21:52.119 two fifty he was right to one of his sons 394 00:21:52.119 --> 00:21:55.960 who was talking about his own sagging faith. I mean, 395 00:21:56.880 --> 00:22:00.200 this communion really communicates to us the closeness of of 396 00:22:00.599 --> 00:22:03.200 the closeness of Christ and the darkness of our lives 397 00:22:03.400 --> 00:22:05.759 right in the in the dark times we go to 398 00:22:05.920 --> 00:22:12.799 we go through. Can you agree with that? Yeah, yeah, totally, Yeah. 399 00:22:12.839 --> 00:22:14.880 I mean it's it's there's a reason it's such an 400 00:22:14.880 --> 00:22:18.759 important thing for you know, for Catholics, and it expresses 401 00:22:18.759 --> 00:22:21.000