Speaker 1: Welcome to Destiny. Now here's your host, Cliff Dunning. Perfect
Speaker 1: perfect day. I'm looking out the window. The sun is out,
Speaker 1: the sky is clear, and it's warming up, Yes, warming up,
Speaker 1: meaning spring is coming. Spring is here soon. And I
Speaker 1: can tell you I can't I can't get here soon
Speaker 1: enough for me. I don't know about you, but this
Speaker 1: has been an incredibly cold winter and it seems to
Speaker 1: be longer than normal for us here in northern California.
Speaker 1: It's been very, very icy, uncomfortable to go out hiking,
Speaker 1: and this is something that I do routinely, even in
Speaker 1: bad weather. So it's a to wenture to remember if
Speaker 1: you could go there with that. Hey, this is Cliff,
Speaker 1: your host of Destiny. I hope you're doing well today.
Speaker 1: You know, we're struggling with our politics here in the
Speaker 1: United States right now. We have some big changes in
Speaker 1: the wind and we're so divided. Half of us are
Speaker 1: happy with the current administration. Another part of the population
Speaker 1: equal number of people are unhappy with But how do
Speaker 1: we get along? How do we get along? We're going
Speaker 1: to talk about this today with my guests. And you know,
Speaker 1: when you have love in your heart, when you are
Speaker 1: not trying to spark anger or belittle people, and I
Speaker 1: follow I follow into this category myself. When you can
Speaker 1: just be neutral and try to just you know, sustain
Speaker 1: as much good feeling as you can, then it's easier
Speaker 1: for people to hang around you. I mean, I have
Speaker 1: friends and and family that have disowned their relatives, disowned
Speaker 1: their friends because of the changes that have gone on
Speaker 1: in the political scene here. It's radical. I mentioned ahead
Speaker 1: of time when Donald Trump became our new president that
Speaker 1: I would be wait and see. I'm still feeling that
Speaker 1: way right now. There are so many changes that are happening.
Speaker 1: I would think that in the next year, or by
Speaker 1: the end of the next year, the first year of
Speaker 1: Trump's presidency, We're going to see radical changes. And I'm
Speaker 1: not going to say either going to be good or
Speaker 1: back as nobody knows. Nobody really knows, because there is
Speaker 1: a somewhat of a deconstruction going on. But my point
Speaker 1: in mentioning politics, and I've promised again, I've promised not
Speaker 1: to talk about politics for a number of years. But
Speaker 1: the point I'm trying to make is when you can
Speaker 1: stay open, stay mindful of those around you, then I
Speaker 1: think there's more room for an awareness for contemplation for discussion,
Speaker 1: and it has not been that way since November of
Speaker 1: last year. We're deeply, deeply divided, and we can't continue
Speaker 1: this because we are a unified body of souls that
Speaker 1: make up the United States of America, and so that
Speaker 1: what we need to do is try to come together
Speaker 1: as much as we can without taking in anyone's paradigm,
Speaker 1: taking another person's belief, but staying open and hopeful is
Speaker 1: the best term I can come up with when we
Speaker 1: discuss the current political climate in the United States. Today's
Speaker 1: program is with an author who's written a number of books.
Speaker 1: He's actually a screenwriter as well and had his movie option.
Speaker 1: The book we're talking about today is called Big Love,
Speaker 1: The Power of Living with a Wide Open Heart. And
Speaker 1: my guess is Scott Stable, and he's written before. He's
Speaker 1: got a monstrous following on Facebook. He's got over three
Speaker 1: hundred and fifty thousand people who are listening to what
Speaker 1: he has to say. And today we're going to talk
Speaker 1: about his crises, his transformation from a devastating childhood where
Speaker 1: he dealt with the murder of his parents and then
Speaker 1: the death of his brother from an overdose of heroin
Speaker 1: and just chronic problems. He just was terribly consumed with
Speaker 1: grief and upset, fear, and how to move beyond that,
Speaker 1: how to move beyond those times where things are just overwhelming.
Speaker 1: And I've been there. I've been there too. I've had
Speaker 1: deaths in the family that were so devastating. I was
Speaker 1: no good for years, or for at least many months.
Speaker 1: And then how it kind of ricochets and continues on
Speaker 1: with other little problems that seem insurmountable at times. I mean,
Speaker 1: have you ever had a period in your life where
Speaker 1: every little thing just didn't seem to go right, that
Speaker 1: you felt like you were a failure, that you were
Speaker 1: depressed all the time. It's snowballs, you know, it grows
Speaker 1: and grows, and it's like, how do I get the
Speaker 1: hell out of this? So this is something we're going
Speaker 1: to talk about today with my guest. No. One of
Speaker 1: the things I do want to mention is that I
Speaker 1: believe that everybody should try to do some form of
Speaker 1: meditation every day, and if you can't use intention as
Speaker 1: much as possible. I intend for this job to happen.
Speaker 1: This I intend, I intend for this, this activity to blossom,
Speaker 1: this job lead to turn out to be a good
Speaker 1: new work situation, this new relationship to grow and to
Speaker 1: be loving if you use intention, and we don't, and
Speaker 1: we haven't really focused enough on using the intention. It's
Speaker 1: more of a recent conveyance. It's reprogramming. It's it's setting
Speaker 1: in some new software in the master computer, which is
Speaker 1: the brain, and asking it to give us more of
Speaker 1: what we want. When we intend to have something happen,
Speaker 1: when we intend to have a good outcome from a situation,
Speaker 1: we are more actively thinking about that than in any
Speaker 1: other time. And so when you are able to intend
Speaker 1: on a positive outcome, you can actually make that happen.
Speaker 1: And the more you do it, the more consistently the
Speaker 1: reality that you want to create actually occurs. But today
Speaker 1: we're talking about dealing with fear, dealing with trauma, and
Speaker 1: dealing with political situations that are a challenge. And the
Speaker 1: program again is big love, the power of living and
Speaker 1: with a wide open heart. And my guest is author
Speaker 1: screenwriter Scott Stable. Hey, spring is just around the corner
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Speaker 1: featuring a new author this week, Scott Stable. He is
Speaker 1: a recurring author. He's written a number of books, and
Speaker 1: I have to tell you also he has written a
Speaker 1: movie which I thought about doing years ago, wasn't very
Speaker 1: a well at it, but he actually had the movie produced.
Speaker 1: The book we're talking about today is called Big Love,
Speaker 1: The Power of Living with a Wide Open Heart. And
Speaker 1: Scott's written other books as well, but we're going to
Speaker 1: focus on this book because it goes into it's really
Speaker 1: autobiographical in many ways. It goes into his life trauma
Speaker 1: of the pain and how he broke through it all.
Speaker 1: And his feeling is that love is the guidance. Love
Speaker 1: is the is the tool to use for us during
Speaker 1: this physical incarnation. That's about all I can say about it. So, Hey, Scott,
Speaker 1: welcome to Destiny. Great to have you on the program.
Speaker 2: Hey, thank you so much, Cliff. I'm happy to be here.
Speaker 2: And if I may say, you know, Big Love the
Speaker 2: paperback is coming out just today and we change the subtitle,
Speaker 2: so now it's the Undeniable joy of following your heart
Speaker 2: and the cover is green instead of the.
Speaker 1: R Oh my god, I have the red version.
Speaker 2: I know you have the hardcover. And it took seven
Speaker 2: years from when the hardcover was released to sell through
Speaker 2: the first printing of the book and to get to
Speaker 2: this paperback, so when ordinarily it's like people put out
Speaker 2: a paperback a year after the hardcover. So I'm feeling
Speaker 2: just grateful that the book is still in print and
Speaker 2: coming out and we have a fresh cover and a
Speaker 2: new subtitle.
Speaker 1: So I should have asked your publicist for at least
Speaker 1: a digital version, because did you update it? And that's well,
Speaker 1: the book is the same. Yeah, oh it's the same book.
Speaker 2: Yeah, you read what the book is. The only difference
Speaker 2: is a little bit of an author's note in the beginning,
Speaker 2: which is maybe like four pages. But no, the book
Speaker 2: isn't updated. It's the same.
Speaker 1: So I got to mention to you, I'm so jealous.
Speaker 1: You have a Facebook page which was over three hundred
Speaker 1: and fifty thousand likes and act active participants. How did
Speaker 1: you grow it? So? He I mean, were you out
Speaker 1: there like hitting the streets or were you sitting.
Speaker 2: It was back at a time time when it was
Speaker 2: easier to grow Facebook pages. You know the movie that
Speaker 2: you referenced that I have written, which is still to
Speaker 2: this day the lowest grossing wide release film and history.
Speaker 2: It's the biggest flop of all time. Oh yeah, so
Speaker 2: ten years later, So that helped. Ten years later, Yeah.
Speaker 1: Helped grow the Facebook page, is what you're saying.
Speaker 2: That didn't help grow the Facebook page, but that's how
Speaker 2: I started the page. The PR people at the time said, hey,
Speaker 2: why don't you start a Facebook page as the writer
Speaker 2: of the film and you can engage with fans and
Speaker 2: talk about the experience of working on the project. Well,
Speaker 2: the movie bombed and there weren't really any fans, but
Speaker 2: I suddenly had this Facebook page, and I thought, well,
Speaker 2: what do I want to write about? And so I
Speaker 2: started writing about the themes that are most important to me,
Speaker 2: like you know, compassion and love and facing our fears
Speaker 2: and transcending shame and all of these things, and the
Speaker 2: page just started to take off really organically, because that
Speaker 2: was actually at a time when the algorithms weren't preventing
Speaker 2: you from reaching people who signed up for your page.
Speaker 2: So my page was growing fast because people who were
Speaker 2: who were following it were seeing my posts and sharing
Speaker 2: them like crazy, and it just, you know, kept growing
Speaker 2: and growing and growing, and then literally cliff virtually overnight
Speaker 2: when they changed that algorithm. However, many years ago, my
Speaker 2: page was growing between like twelve hundred and fifteen hundred
Speaker 2: new people a day were following my page, and it
Speaker 2: went to like basically zero or losing people by the
Speaker 2: day because the algorithm just cut off all the organic
Speaker 2: reach and they just want you to pay for it
Speaker 2: to reach people.
Speaker 1: They wanted you to be more of an advertiser.
Speaker 2: They wanted to They wanted to treat you like, this
Speaker 2: is your business and if you want to reach people,
Speaker 2: you have to pay for them to reach people, okay,
Speaker 2: which I wasn't willing to do. And the amounts were outrageous.
Speaker 2: I mean, I did the math one day and for
Speaker 2: my one post to reach the three hundred and fifty
Speaker 2: thousand people following my page, it was thousands of dollars.
Speaker 2: It will Oh my god, it's ridiculous, So my good.
Speaker 1: But I felt I really liked it because I was
Speaker 1: looking at some of the sections and you would do
Speaker 1: it like you quote part of the book. Yeah, you'd
Speaker 1: do passages and they were really inspirational. I've read a
Speaker 1: few of them, and I can see why people were
Speaker 1: coming back, going, when's Scott going to post something new
Speaker 1: on I mean, because you probably kept people.
Speaker 2: I was posting several times a day too. I was
Speaker 2: so active on that page.
Speaker 1: So yeah, so that's all over with now. Now it's
Speaker 1: kind of a.
Speaker 2: I mean, I haven't posted in about a year, and
Speaker 2: I'm not Yeah, I'm not really vibing with it right now,
Speaker 2: but you know, we'll see what the future holds. You
Speaker 2: never know.
Speaker 1: Let's talk about this wonderful book. So much of it
Speaker 1: is your trauma and and pain, and we'll talk a
Speaker 1: little little bit later about how you kind of kept
Speaker 1: it all together. But what I mean that's that seems
Speaker 1: to be the fundamentals of the book, the theme of
Speaker 1: the book. But how do you look beyond the pain?
Speaker 1: How do you how do you begin getting a sense
Speaker 1: of you know, this is not who I am. I
Speaker 1: can't keep doing this, can't be bringing it up constantly.
Speaker 2: Well, I think, I mean, in my experience, it's about
Speaker 2: understanding that part of being human in this reality is
Speaker 2: experiencing pain right is experiencing trauma. And you know, anyone
Speaker 2: who's made it to adulthood has likely had some hard
Speaker 2: things to contend with in their lives. And I don't
Speaker 2: I don't see a need in the way that I
Speaker 2: used to to kind of bury everything and pretend it
Speaker 2: isn't there, and that's my way to deal with it.
Speaker 2: Sometimes I do that. Sometimes I numb out and escape, sure,
Speaker 2: like the best of them, you know, But I for me,
Speaker 2: it's it's about understanding that along with feeling any of
Speaker 2: the hardships that I'm feeling, there's also so much more
Speaker 2: to experience in this world. So I try to I
Speaker 2: try to keep myself open to more than just what
Speaker 2: has been difficult. So that means like keeping myself open
Speaker 2: to what is beautiful in the world, keeping myself open
Speaker 2: to the very real connections that are meaningful in my life,
Speaker 2: keeping myself open to my creativity and the creativity of others.
Speaker 2: It's like, I think, sometimes our minds can be incredibly
Speaker 2: myopic in the way they view things, and so often
Speaker 2: the mind steers through the lens of like negativity and
Speaker 2: darkness and everything that's wrong on this planet. And there's
Speaker 2: so much wrong on this planet. I mean, there's so
Speaker 2: much in this country is just there's so much violence
Speaker 2: and injustice and division. It can be incredibly easy to
Speaker 2: stay attuned to just that. But I don't feel like
Speaker 2: we're ultimately being of service to our selves or our
Speaker 2: world if that's the only lens through which we're viewing things.
Speaker 2: So how do we remember that we are wildly expansive beings?
Speaker 2: And I'm able to hold not just my trauma and pain,
Speaker 2: but able to hold so much beauty and create so
Speaker 2: much beauty. And by doing so that isn't denying the
Speaker 2: hardship here. It's just remembering that there's so much more
Speaker 2: than just hardship here, and that I think sometimes Cliff
Speaker 2: we I know because I see it online. There's this
Speaker 2: idea that to foster joy or make space for joy
Speaker 2: at a time where there's so much suffering and so
Speaker 2: much injustice for many feels incongruent. And for me, it's like,
Speaker 2: never stop making yourself available to moments of joy and
Speaker 2: connection and love. It is not our misery that helps
Speaker 2: people out of their misery. It's like joy is a
Speaker 2: very vital life force and an energy that is of
Speaker 2: service to all. So don't stop yourself from feeling it
Speaker 2: simply because others out there are suffering. Trust that if
Speaker 2: you're being called into your joy, that that that is
Speaker 2: just a beautiful thing for you to experience in the moment.
Speaker 2: And look, you'll be suffering again. We all go through
Speaker 2: these cycles, right, And I think that I don't. I
Speaker 2: don't want to just give myself over to the pain here.
Speaker 2: I want to give myself over to the fullness of
Speaker 2: this experience.
Speaker 1: I can tell that you're a deeply spiritual person, Scott,
Speaker 1: and you said something in the very beginning. You said
Speaker 1: that we come into this life kind of you know,
Speaker 1: experiencing trauma, pain and suffering. Would you say that this
Speaker 1: is kind of a school for this that we're learning.
Speaker 1: Can you take it beyond the physical and go Our
Speaker 1: soul is asking us to experience this life in whatever
Speaker 1: script that we've set out for it to be. And
Speaker 1: it's it's getting through and understanding that love is the
Speaker 1: ultimate healing tool.
Speaker 2: For me, one hundred percent, life is the ultimate healing
Speaker 2: tool and without love, healing is not possible. So for me,
Speaker 2: I'm continuously asking myself what is love inviting me to
Speaker 2: do in this moment? Even like, I see things going
Speaker 2: on in this country that are so enraging and infuriating
Speaker 2: and heartbreaking, and I want to honor that and allow
Speaker 2: for myself to feel that, because it's what's really happening
Speaker 2: inside of me. But if all we're doing is raging,
Speaker 2: you can't raise yourself into healing. Like anger is a
Speaker 2: powerful change agent, a beautiful change agent, but anger alone
Speaker 2: does not create healing. It has to be supported by love.
Speaker 2: And when I'm speaking about love, I see love as
Speaker 2: just energy so for me, and it's an energy that
Speaker 2: informs compassion and kindness and forgiveness and all of the
Speaker 2: things that we hold to be most true in this experience.
Speaker 2: So I know that when I'm playing with the energy
Speaker 2: of love and speaking from that place and acting from
Speaker 2: that place, I am myself and our world. And and
Speaker 2: to what you you said about our soul and learning,
Speaker 2: what I want to say is, I don't want to
Speaker 2: pretend that I know anything for sure about these things,
Speaker 2: because it does when when people talk so confidently about
Speaker 2: the afterlife, I'm like, Okay, I know this is how
Speaker 2: you what your intuition tells you, but at least honor
Speaker 2: that it's just what your intuition tells you, because there's
Speaker 2: no proof, I happen to fall in line with the
Speaker 2: idea that we do incarnate and our our soul, you know,
Speaker 2: our soul moves from lifetime to lifetime. So I'm aligned
Speaker 2: with the idea that are my soul is an absolutely
Speaker 2: peaceful still aspect of who I am. That is simply
Speaker 2: bearing witness without judgment to everything I'm experiencing here and
Speaker 2: learning from it, but with no suffering. I don't. I
Speaker 2: really believe in all of us there is a soul
Speaker 2: centered place that exists beyond suffering, that just observes, just
Speaker 2: bears witness right, just is in total acceptance of all
Speaker 2: that is. And when I'm connecting to that place within myself,
Speaker 2: I feel so much more peaceful, which is why I
Speaker 2: think I'm incentivized to connect to that place within myself
Speaker 2: because that place is quiet, and up here in my
Speaker 2: mind and my ego, there's so much noise, there's so
Speaker 2: much insanity. So for me, what I've learned, Cliff is
Speaker 2: just it's not about changing my mind, because my mind
Speaker 2: is the same as it's ever been. It's about shifting
Speaker 2: my relationship to my mind and my thoughts and understanding
Speaker 2: that that's where my power lives. When I am lost
Speaker 2: in the belief that the things my mind is telling
Speaker 2: me are all true, I create suffering myself for myself.
Speaker 2: But when I'm able to observe the thoughts of my
Speaker 2: mind and the more self abusive ones that are somehow
Speaker 2: suggesting I'm less than or unloved and unworthy, and I
Speaker 2: can just recognize those thoughts as lies without giving much
Speaker 2: energy to them, I create for myself a lot more peace.
Speaker 2: And we can all do this. Our minds are always
Speaker 2: are lying to us all the time, and it's like,
Speaker 2: whenever your mind is suggesting that you're unworthy or unlovable,
Speaker 2: that is a lie. And if you choose to believe
Speaker 2: that lie, you're going to suffer. But if you choose
Speaker 2: to just reflect, oh, that's just my mind doing what
Speaker 2: all human minds do. You suffer less.
Speaker 1: Yeah, you know, I don't capture from your book that
Speaker 1: you're a therapist, but I think from the writing you
Speaker 1: are helping the reader see through your experience that you
Speaker 1: don't have to be traumatize your whole life. You don't
Speaker 1: have to live with it. I'd like you to describe
Speaker 1: what you call a love spreader your book and tell us.
Speaker 1: I think you give it to us in the book itself,
Speaker 1: but tell us how that works and how each of
Speaker 1: us can become a love spreader.
Speaker 2: Sounds dirty when you say it, I don't know. Sex
Speaker 2: dirty when I wrote it. I don't know, but you know.
Speaker 2: For me, it's just about I believe deeply in the
Speaker 2: power of love is our greatest healing agent. So I'm
Speaker 2: someone who makes a lot of noise for the power
Speaker 2: of love. That is the core of the work I do.
Speaker 2: I talk a lot about love. I talk a lot
Speaker 2: about self love. I write a lot about these things
Speaker 2: because I feel that when we apply love to anything
Speaker 2: else that we're doing or experiencing in this life, we
Speaker 2: have the potential to grow and to create healing. So
Speaker 2: for me, spreading love is as simple as being intentional
Speaker 2: about showing up with kindness when you're out in the community,
Speaker 2: when you're at the store shopping, How are you engaging
Speaker 2: with clerks, how are you with people out in the world.
Speaker 2: Anytime you are showing up with kindness in your heart,
Speaker 2: you're spreading love, right Like, how are you showing up
Speaker 2: for yourself when you're looking at yourself in the mirror.
Speaker 2: When you're talking to yourself as you're going to sleep,
Speaker 2: are you locked into the self abusive ego thoughts or
Speaker 2: are you remembering to offer yourself some kindness? This is
Speaker 2: spreading love right there are so any time we're connecting
Speaker 2: to compassion for our fellow human beings, anytime we have
Speaker 2: chosen to forgive, anytime we are doing any anytime we
Speaker 2: are being empathetic in any sort of way, we are
Speaker 2: spreading love. So it's within our capacity, each one of us,
Speaker 2: to be a love spreader. And in my experience, this
Speaker 2: is one of the ways we heal our world. This
Speaker 2: is one of the ways we change our world. Like
Speaker 2: you and I were talking beforehand about how frustrating it
Speaker 2: can be to look at the political reality in our country.
Speaker 2: And it's always frustrating to look at the political reality
Speaker 2: in our country because it's usually half of the people
Speaker 2: are agreeing, half of the people are opposing, and those
Speaker 2: two halves are warring with each other, and it's insane, right,
Speaker 2: And yet if I am someone who is not willing
Speaker 2: to look at the humanity in the person who is saying,
Speaker 2: even for me, the most horrific things, but to remember,
Speaker 2: they too are a human being who has lived an
Speaker 2: entire life that I am not aware of and can't
Speaker 2: relate to. I am actually serving the conversation in some
Speaker 2: way that is potentially positive, because I might stay completely
Speaker 2: committed to my convictions and completely repulsed by what they're
Speaker 2: saying and doing. But if in that I'm also choosing
Speaker 2: to dehumanize and shame them, I'm not creating any possibility
Speaker 2: of moving things forward in a good way. So if
Speaker 2: I can stand true in my beliefs without losing the
Speaker 2: humanity and other people, I feel like I'm staying in
Speaker 2: my heart and I am then spreading love even if
Speaker 2: what I have to say doesn't land dwell with them. Right,
Speaker 2: at least I can take responsibility for how I'm saying it.
Speaker 2: I can take responsibility if I'm on social media and
Speaker 2: someone posts something that I find ridiculous or cruel or insane.
Speaker 2: Am I going to get on my keyboard and say,
Speaker 2: you know you're I don't know if you can swear here,
Speaker 2: so I won't, but I'll be like, are you whatever?
Speaker 2: Whatever my mind wants me to say in action? Or
Speaker 2: can I compose myself and share very clearly what I
Speaker 2: feel called to share? But without shaming them in the process,
Speaker 2: because I don't. In my experience, I've never shamed myself
Speaker 2: into a healing place. I have often loved myself into
Speaker 2: a better place. And so I think that that transcends
Speaker 2: just my relationship with myself to my relationship with other people.
Speaker 2: We don't shame.
Speaker 1: Yeah, you're asking that we go beyond the anger and
Speaker 1: the frustration of the political setting and kind of through
Speaker 1: love and through neutral reality, express an emotion. That's a
Speaker 1: tough one.
Speaker 2: It's the hardest thing. And I have not mastered this,
Speaker 2: by the way, Like I fall off the love train often,
Speaker 2: but I get myself back on as quickly as I can,
Speaker 2: and I make amends if there's amends to be made,
Speaker 2: as gracefully as I can, and you know, we move on.
Speaker 2: But I just don't see I don't see the point
Speaker 2: of screaming at each other and shaming each other. It's
Speaker 2: getting us nowhere. We're just we're just continuously showing up
Speaker 2: with a changed, you know, quote unquote changed reality. But
Speaker 2: it ultimately just looks like the same thing we were
Speaker 2: running from, but with just a different cast of characters
Speaker 2: in control. It's it's insanity. It is insanity.
Speaker 1: Honestly, Yeah, I think our country's being torn apart right
Speaker 1: now through this huge divide, and you know it. I
Speaker 1: love the love spreader analogy, But how do you do
Speaker 1: it when there's so much anger and hate and resistance?
Speaker 2: You know, I think you? I mean, how I do
Speaker 2: it when I'm doing it well is remembering that all
Speaker 2: I have control over is how I'm choosing to show
Speaker 2: up within this reality. I have no control over how
Speaker 2: others are choosing to show up, so I can't take
Speaker 2: responsibility for what they're saying and doing. I won't take responsibility,
Speaker 2: but I'll absolutely take responsibility for what I'm saying and doing.
Speaker 2: And if what I'm saying and doing is out of
Speaker 2: alignment with love and all that love invites into our lives,
Speaker 2: I know that I'm not serving anything right. And that
Speaker 2: doesn't mean not being angry. You can be wildly angry.
Speaker 2: There's lots to be angry about, and can you support
Speaker 2: your anger with love?
Speaker 3: Right?
Speaker 2: Which for me looks like what I just said, being angry,
Speaker 2: but not forgetting that the humanity in my fellow human
Speaker 2: beings understan standing that the person out there I would
Speaker 2: be most inclined to judge had I walked in their
Speaker 2: footsteps throughout their life, I could not confidently say that
Speaker 2: I would not have landed in the exact same place
Speaker 2: they have landed. And knowing that it allows me to
Speaker 2: open my heart in a more compassionate way to where
Speaker 2: they are, even if what I'm fighting for is wholly
Speaker 2: in opposition to what they're fighting for. Does that make sense?
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's just such a trigger point for me.
Speaker 2: For me too, brother, it's the hardest thing. It's very
Speaker 2: easy to hate people that is like that is it
Speaker 2: doesn't take any work to judge another human beings. The
Speaker 2: work is in getting back into your heart and remembering
Speaker 2: to love, which I feel like any all the great
Speaker 2: teachers in every religion and every any spiritual philosophy are
Speaker 2: all preaching love. It's all the same, right, And yet
Speaker 2: we justify not being loving so easily, even when the
Speaker 2: people we admire and revere and want to be like
Speaker 2: are all preaching love.
Speaker 1: Yeah. So we're going to take a short commercial break
Speaker 1: to allow our sponsors to identify themselves, and we will
Speaker 1: return shortly with my guest today, Scott Stable discussing his
Speaker 1: newest book, Big Love. Will be right back. My guest
Speaker 1: today is author Scott Strabel, who has written a number
Speaker 1: of books, including his latest Big Love, The Power of
Speaker 1: Living with a Wide Open Heart. I want to talk
Speaker 1: about your childhood. You experienced the murder of your parents
Speaker 1: at I think you were fourteen, and you didn't receive
Speaker 1: any therapy for it. You got it the years later,
Speaker 1: But talk about containing that horrible trauma and how it
Speaker 1: would come out as you got older in these I
Speaker 1: call him sobbing episodes where you're just overwhelmed with emotion.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean mostly you know, I was fourteen years old.
Speaker 2: My parents were shot to death and in their a
Speaker 2: store that they owned in Detroit, and I didn't do
Speaker 2: anything consciously that time, Like I am so grateful when
Speaker 2: I reflect back on my life at that time that
Speaker 2: something in me just new to bury it, you know,
Speaker 2: like and for me, what that looked like was really
Speaker 2: bearing it, like never talking about my parents and once
Speaker 2: a year having a cry. And it was almost like clockwork,
Speaker 2: and it would only happen around once a year where
Speaker 2: something would precipitate an hours long sobbing session and then
Speaker 2: I would lock it back up and just move on
Speaker 2: with my life. And was like a straight a student
Speaker 2: and like had lots of friends, and you know, lived
Speaker 2: like ostensibly what looked like a very great American high
Speaker 2: school experience in college experience, and it was, I mean
Speaker 2: that was genuine. I had a great time in high
Speaker 2: school and college. But it was in my early twenties
Speaker 2: when I had one of those episodes. But it lasted
Speaker 2: for several days, and I thought, I am really losing
Speaker 2: my mind, Like I I something in me broke, is
Speaker 2: what it felt like. And and and that was I
Speaker 2: had I could afford at the time, like six sessions
Speaker 2: of therapy, and I and what I was able to
Speaker 2: see in those sessions because I was just talking about
Speaker 2: my parents really unlike I had for the first time,
Speaker 2: and crying and being angry, and I was able to
Speaker 2: see that I actually can be with these emotions and
Speaker 2: I can express them and they're not going to kill me.
Speaker 2: Like I can actually be honest about how I'm feeling
Speaker 2: about having lost my parents in that way and survive it.
Speaker 2: And I think that really helped me open up to
Speaker 2: the understanding that I think so often we run from
Speaker 2: the harder feelings because some part of us doesn't know
Speaker 2: that we're going to make it through them. We're terrified
Speaker 2: to be with how angry we really are and how
Speaker 2: sad we really are. And I was able to see
Speaker 2: then it's like, yeah, it's not comfortable. It's awfully painful
Speaker 2: to sit with my sadness and sit with my anger.
Speaker 2: And yet this is part of the experience here. And
Speaker 2: when I allow myself to be present with what feels
Speaker 2: most real within me, that's actually when I have an
Speaker 2: opportunity to move through it. When I spend all of
Speaker 2: my energy trying to numb and escape from what I'm feeling,
Speaker 2: I'm actually just giving that energy to what it is
Speaker 2: I'm feeling. Everything you're running from is energy you're giving
Speaker 2: to the thing from which you're trying to escape. And
Speaker 2: feelings want to move through us. It's how they're designed.
Speaker 2: It's when we hold on to them so they can't
Speaker 2: and we bury them so they can't. But if we
Speaker 2: just allow ourselves to feel, there's a lot more movement
Speaker 2: that happens in that place. And I also want to
Speaker 2: be really clear, like I still numb, I still escape,
Speaker 2: I still do everything we all do. I think for me,
Speaker 2: what I've gotten really good at is being really kind
Speaker 2: to myself no matter what choices I'm making offering myself
Speaker 2: a lot of grace even when what I'm choosing to
Speaker 2: do isn't the healthiest choice, right, just remembering that no
Speaker 2: matter what, I am worthy of love, and to everyone
Speaker 2: listening or watching, no matter what, you are worthy of love.
Speaker 2: And if you can really believe that about yourself and
Speaker 2: be the person who is offering yourself that love and
Speaker 2: that grace, the way you move through your life changes
Speaker 2: profoundly because I know now, Cliff, that no matter what,
Speaker 2: I've got my back, and knowing that allows me to
Speaker 2: be much more courageous and how I'm showing up in
Speaker 2: my life to take risks I might not have taken
Speaker 2: otherwise because on the other side of those things in
Speaker 2: the past, I would have been the one beating myself
Speaker 2: up the most, and now I'm the one loving myself
Speaker 2: the most.
Speaker 1: Yeah. I love that you mentioned in the book that
Speaker 1: you need to be selfish and give yourself the love
Speaker 1: that you need. Talk a little bit about that, and
Speaker 1: it does look to me you only talk about a
Speaker 1: brief stay with the therapist. Tell It looks to me
Speaker 1: that whoever that person was, gave you some tools to
Speaker 1: kind of help identify your emotions, but I'm interested in
Speaker 1: learning what you got out of that time with that person.
Speaker 2: Honestly, I don't really remember. I don't know that I
Speaker 2: came away with any tools beyond seeing, hey, you can
Speaker 2: cry and rage and talk about this and still be okay, like,
Speaker 2: which was a huge gift at the time, because I
Speaker 2: definitely thought like something broke within me. But as far
Speaker 2: as selfishness, it's like, you know, people get hung up
Speaker 2: on this idea of self love because they get caught
Speaker 2: up on the idea that it's selfish to focus on
Speaker 2: yourself in this way. And for me, the beauty of
Speaker 2: self love is that it's the most pure, pure and
Speaker 2: beautiful selfishness there is, because any energy you give to
Speaker 2: strengthening your relationship with yourself is always of service to others, right, Like,
Speaker 2: the more you love yourself, the more naturally you're going
Speaker 2: to be extending that love to the people in your
Speaker 2: life and to strangers on the street and to our
Speaker 2: world in general. So please don't get hung up on
Speaker 2: this idea of self love is some sort of negative selfishness.
Speaker 2: It's a beautiful selfishness. You know, Love never stops itself.
Speaker 2: It is always transcending self, and the way you relate
Speaker 2: to yourself informs how you relate to every other person
Speaker 2: and thing on this planet. We know this. We know
Speaker 2: that when we feel rested, when we feel nourished, we're
Speaker 2: nicer to the people in our lives. We treat them better,
Speaker 2: they want to be around us more. That is the
Speaker 2: natural extension of taking care of yourself. So why would
Speaker 2: we ever not you know, give prioritize our relationship to self,
Speaker 2: knowing that it serves all right.
Speaker 1: If we have a lifetime of trauma, agony, and pain,
Speaker 1: you're showing us that it's not necessarily important to push
Speaker 1: it away and bury it. You recognize it. And it
Speaker 1: seems to me that you're saying by recognizing it, you
Speaker 1: diffuse it a little more each time you think about
Speaker 1: it or recognize it, or in your case, it would
Speaker 1: come up in these cry and spells, and then you
Speaker 1: would feel it, and then without the therapist you are like, oh,
Speaker 1: I'm losing my mind. But with the therapist, therapist is
Speaker 1: saying you're not losing your mind. You just need to
Speaker 1: live through this and diffuse it in some way.
Speaker 2: I mean, what I would say is that I spent
Speaker 2: a lot of energy trying not to feel, and that
Speaker 2: is exhausting, and I don't think we really are aware
Speaker 2: of how exhausting it is to live in a state
Speaker 2: where you're consistently trying to numb, consistently trying to escape
Speaker 2: just to avoid feeling the harder feelings. And so now
Speaker 2: I'm more available to feeling and it takes less energy
Speaker 2: than trying not to feel, even when what I'm feeling
Speaker 2: is uncomfortable. And also just recognizing part of the experience
Speaker 2: of being human in this reality is pain. It's just
Speaker 2: what you can't live without having your heart broken, or
Speaker 2: losing someone you love like this, or losing your job
Speaker 2: or whatever it is that we all experience that creates heartbreak.
Speaker 2: That's part of life, and it's in the It's an
Speaker 2: uncomfortable part of life. But I think the hopefully the
Speaker 2: more you age and the more you mature, you're going
Speaker 2: to realize, like, this is just part of the reality here.
Speaker 2: And so we could say, we could come back to
Speaker 2: what you brought up earlier, the idea that this is
Speaker 2: your soul in school, And I like that because for me,
Speaker 2: when I'm going through something hard and if I can
Speaker 2: bring awareness to it, I do believe that whatever it
Speaker 2: is I am experiencing in the moment is actually serving
Speaker 2: my growth here and I like to look at things
Speaker 2: that way. For me, it feels helpful.
Speaker 1: Can we be avoiding pain? Scott? Should we? If we?
Speaker 1: I mean, I can look at relationships I've had, and
Speaker 1: some of them have been extremely painful. You know, you
Speaker 1: think you love somebody and all of a sudden they're
Speaker 1: like crapping on you, or they're cheating or whatever. Is that?
Speaker 1: Are we supposed to avoid those situations or do we
Speaker 1: walk into it knowing that it could be good it
Speaker 1: could be bad. I mean, it kind of answers itself.
Speaker 1: But curious about what you think.
Speaker 2: I don't think you can avoid pain. I mean unless
Speaker 2: you completely shut yourself in, and even then you're going
Speaker 2: to be dealing with the pain of loneliness, the pain of.
Speaker 1: You're not human connection.
Speaker 2: And you know what I mean, Like pain is pain
Speaker 2: is there. You can't avoid it. You can try to,
Speaker 2: you can pretend to, you can close yourself off to
Speaker 2: try to, but it's there. So for me, the question
Speaker 2: I would ask someone who is trying to avoid pain
Speaker 2: is you know, are you willing to move through your
Speaker 2: life without making yourself available to all the gifts and
Speaker 2: benefits and beauty that come with opening yourself up to
Speaker 2: possibilities that could end painfully. Right, It's what's that expression,
Speaker 2: better to have loved and lost than never to have
Speaker 2: loved it all or whatever? That That's essentially what I'm saying.
Speaker 2: It's like, like I have seen time and again the
Speaker 2: gifts that come with opening my heart to people and
Speaker 2: to experiences, and and also I've been burned, I've been hurt,
Speaker 2: I've hurt others, like all of these things have been
Speaker 2: a part of it too. But I mean, come on,
Speaker 2: how do you want to live I don't want to
Speaker 2: live my life in a sheltered, isolated way just to
Speaker 2: avoid getting hurt when you can't avoid getting hurt anyway.
Speaker 3: It's like, oh, go ahead, I was just gonna say,
Speaker 3: but how do we process the pain of a broken
Speaker 3: relationship where you deeply love somebody and they screwedge you
Speaker 3: and somehow they embarrassed you or.
Speaker 1: They humiliated you, and you are left with such horrible pain.
Speaker 1: I can see a lot of people thinking I'm not
Speaker 1: doing that again and shutting it off.
Speaker 2: I can absolutely see that. I feel like I've done
Speaker 2: that before. In my life. Yeah, I think that that's
Speaker 2: a natural extension of a broken heart, right But another
Speaker 2: way to look at that is just to understand if
Speaker 2: that's what you're living in the moment, is just to acknowledge.
Speaker 2: Right now, I'm not ready to put myself out there again,
Speaker 2: and then you can ask yourself questions. But when I am,
Speaker 2: how might I want to go about this in a
Speaker 2: way that could create something different, or where you know,
Speaker 2: were there are things in the relationship I was ignoring
Speaker 2: because I was so in love or I felt so
Speaker 2: good just having someone in my life that I didn't
Speaker 2: want to acknowledge I wasn't being respected or treated well,
Speaker 2: right Like, I think that there's value in doing this
Speaker 2: kind of investigation in our lives so we don't set
Speaker 2: ourselves up for the same dynamics. But I don't think
Speaker 2: there's a lot of value in closing ourselves off completely
Speaker 2: just to avoid reliving something that we've lived before, when
Speaker 2: we can't know for sure that we would be setting
Speaker 2: ourselves up for the same dynamic.
Speaker 1: I want you to talk real briefly, and this is
Speaker 1: not in the book, but it does kind of carry
Speaker 1: through in a theme why it's important to be in
Speaker 1: relationship and not just with lovers. I'm talking about family
Speaker 1: friends and why this is critical for the love spreading theme.
Speaker 2: I mean a couple things. One, I just we human
Speaker 2: beings are wired for connection. I mean, more and more
Speaker 2: studies are showing that one of the leading causes of
Speaker 2: death in older people is loneliness. Right, Like, loneliness is
Speaker 2: a path to earlier death, and so we need connection.
Speaker 2: We need to connection to feel alive, we need connection
Speaker 2: to find meaning, we need to connection to thrive in
Speaker 2: our lives. So that alone. But then another angle for
Speaker 2: me is like this is how we grow. Like I'm
Speaker 2: someone who does a lot of my own spiritual work,
Speaker 2: and I'm a major processor, Like I'm always looking at
Speaker 2: how is this affecting me? And what was this trigger?
Speaker 2: And why did that trigger go off? And I, you know,
Speaker 2: I have fun with it. That's how I live my life.
Speaker 2: But also if I'm doing that all by myself all
Speaker 2: the time, I have no idea how much I've really grown. Right,
Speaker 2: it's only when we're in relationship with people that we
Speaker 2: actually see our triggers and we can actually take ownership
Speaker 2: of them and actually see how we are relating to
Speaker 2: other human beings as we're growing, and you only need
Speaker 2: to think about like anyone listening who's gone home for
Speaker 2: the holidays and has been around family, and you think, oh,
Speaker 2: I'm doing great, I'm so evolved and I'm becoming enlightened.
Speaker 2: And then you're around your family for a week and
Speaker 2: you see how holy unevolved you are, and like, how
Speaker 2: much more room there is to grow? Right, It's like
Speaker 2: relationships show us these things.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I love that U talk a little bit about
Speaker 1: your writing process because you describe it as a form
Speaker 1: of therapy, and I was wondering if that writing is
Speaker 1: a suggestion to the reader that they should journal a
Speaker 1: little bit, journaling what they've been processing.
Speaker 2: I'm a big proponent of journaling. I think it's extraordinarily helpful.
Speaker 2: I think that the things that come through when we write,
Speaker 2: we often glean new perspectives that we don't get when
Speaker 2: we're just in our minds like a hamster on the wheel,
Speaker 2: just spinning through the same thoughts and same ideas and
Speaker 2: same frustrations. And suddenly, when you put a pen to paper,
Speaker 2: you open yourself up to revelations and realizations that weren't there.
Speaker 2: So yeah, I'm all for journaling and even just as
Speaker 2: a way of vomiting out entergy like moving energy. Like
Speaker 2: if you're living with all this anger, insider frustration, and
Speaker 2: you're just doing with it in your mind and body,
Speaker 2: it's just sitting there. But if you allow yourself to
Speaker 2: just put that anger on the page, it feels like purging.
Speaker 1: You know.
Speaker 2: One of the exercises I do in one of my
Speaker 2: workshops with people as I invite them to look at
Speaker 2: a situation that really upset them with somebody and to
Speaker 2: forget everything that I say about love and empathy and
Speaker 2: compassion and just take some time and on the page,
Speaker 2: just allow for your rage, just rage at the person
Speaker 2: for all ways they wronged you, and allow yourself to
Speaker 2: just be with what is alive inside of you instead
Speaker 2: of feeling like you have to squelch it because it's
Speaker 2: not okay to be angry or it's not okay to
Speaker 2: judge people Like we have to allow for our feelings
Speaker 2: to express themselves in a real way and then we
Speaker 2: can get back to being empathetic and being loving and
Speaker 2: being compassionate. But don't leap to that place if what's
Speaker 2: stirring inside of you is just anger and rage, don't
Speaker 2: pretend that's not there or dismiss it, like make room
Speaker 2: for it and then get to the act of loving
Speaker 2: when you're able to.
Speaker 1: Yeah. I love that because you're talking about a journaling
Speaker 1: process where you're journaling anger, hate, even good stuff as
Speaker 1: as a way to reflect on your life. Absolutely.
Speaker 2: Yea, He's really powerful in that way.
Speaker 1: Yeah. So would you say journaling should happen as frequently
Speaker 1: as you want or should you have like a regular
Speaker 1: time when you sit down to kind of do contemplative work.
Speaker 1: I guess you could call it.
Speaker 2: You know, I don't really should around these things because
Speaker 2: I feel like what I really believe is that we
Speaker 2: intuitively know what we need to do for ourselves to
Speaker 2: take care of ourselves. So if you're someone listening and
Speaker 2: you've tried journaling and that was really works for you,
Speaker 2: then I absolutely encourage you to journal. If you're somebody
Speaker 2: who's tried it and it doesn't work for you, then
Speaker 2: there's no should about it. Like find the things that
Speaker 2: work for you. Maybe that's meditation For me. I would
Speaker 2: say one of the most helpful things for me in
Speaker 2: my life, hands down is walking in nature. If I
Speaker 2: can go on a hike, amongst the trees or in mountains,
Speaker 2: it is the best thing I can do for myself.
Speaker 2: So knowing that it's incumbent upon me to make time
Speaker 2: to do that for myself because I know that that
Speaker 2: helps me. You know, if you try journaling and you
Speaker 2: find that it helps you, make time for it, make
Speaker 2: time for the things that serve you. And you know,
Speaker 2: I've said this, and I say it all the time, Cliff,
Speaker 2: but it's like if you did no other thing in
Speaker 2: your life but brought more awareness to the choices you're
Speaker 2: making and how they make you feel, and give more
Speaker 2: energy to the choices that elicit a good feeling inside
Speaker 2: of yourself and start eliminating the ones that deplete you
Speaker 2: or feel unhealthy, you will change your life overnight. That's
Speaker 2: like one plus one equals to spirituality. Do more of
Speaker 2: what feels good and less of what doesn't, and suddenly
Speaker 2: you will find that your life is changing.
Speaker 1: Are you talking about feel good everywhere? And I feel
Speaker 1: good going to see a movie because you want to
Speaker 1: go see it, eat something good?
Speaker 2: I mean I'm talking about anything, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1: All the whole but Menagerie.
Speaker 2: Anything anything like. For me, it's just about bringing more
Speaker 2: awareness to myself throughout the day and it's like, Oh,
Speaker 2: I'm feeling really uncomfortable in this moment. Okay, well what
Speaker 2: am I thinking about? Oh? I'm thinking about the news
Speaker 2: that I was just watching. Okay, well, maybe is there
Speaker 2: a way for you to create a different relationship with news? Right? Like,
Speaker 2: if you want to be an informed an informed citizen,
Speaker 2: but you recognize that every time you cheot tune into
Speaker 2: the news, you feel like crap and totally anxious and
Speaker 2: stressed out, well, then maybe you maybe there's a better
Speaker 2: choice that you can make around your relationship to media, right,
Speaker 2: And like, this is what I encourage people to do.
Speaker 2: Ask ourselves these questions, like, when you're feeling anxious, well,
Speaker 2: what am I thinking about? Because what you're feeling is
Speaker 2: always going to relate to what you're thinking about. So
Speaker 2: if you're feeling anxious in your body, it's likely because
Speaker 2: you're thinking about something that is making you feel anxious
Speaker 2: in your body. So, okay, how can I be with
Speaker 2: what I'm thinking about? Is there a way for me
Speaker 2: to be with what I'm thinking about more peacefully? And
Speaker 2: if not? Can I think about anything else right now
Speaker 2: that isn't stressing me out?
Speaker 3: Right?
Speaker 2: It's like, can I think about the cute dog next
Speaker 2: door that brings me joy? Or or my nephews and
Speaker 2: nieces who are sweet and loving? Right, It's like, I
Speaker 2: think sometimes we lock ourselves in to this, these thought
Speaker 2: processes that create nothing but anxiety for us, or sadness
Speaker 2: or frustration, and we forget that we're not bound to
Speaker 2: thinking about these things like why don't why don't we
Speaker 2: open ourselves up to the possibility of either reframing the
Speaker 2: thoughts we are thinking about or simply think about something different. Yeah,
Speaker 2: and I say this, So it's this the simplest thing
Speaker 2: on the It is a very simple concept what I'm sharing,
Speaker 2: but doing it is not always easiest.
Speaker 1: We're gonna take a short commercial break to allow our
Speaker 1: sponsors to identify themselves, and we will return shortly with
Speaker 1: my guest, Scott's Stable discussing his latest book, Big Love.
Speaker 1: Will rejoin you shortly. I guess today is Scott Steeble.
Speaker 1: You can get his newest book, Big Love on Amazon
Speaker 1: or wherever you get your literature. Well, I'm glad you
Speaker 1: were mentioning that right now, because I wanted to get
Speaker 1: serious about this for people who are chronically depressed who
Speaker 1: cannot find a light, who cannot find an avenue. And
Speaker 1: what you're saying is is kind of a nurturing of
Speaker 1: the feel good. Find the thought, find the idea, find
Speaker 1: the movie or whatever or article that you like, and
Speaker 1: follow that author talk about moving beyond chronic depression. Now, obviously,
Speaker 1: if it's clinical, we can't do anything about that. You
Speaker 1: gotta work with your therapist. But what you're saying can
Speaker 1: actually help people move on their own.
Speaker 2: I think our minds are masters at lying to us,
Speaker 2: and I think it's when we believe the lies of
Speaker 2: our minds that we tend to get more and more depressed,
Speaker 2: because so often what our minds will tell us is
Speaker 2: that we are somehow flawed. That's what our shame tells us,
Speaker 2: We're inherently flawed. Our minds will tell us that there's
Speaker 2: no hope in the world, that everything is bleak, that
Speaker 2: we are worthless. These are all messages that when I'm
Speaker 2: believing them in my life, it leads me to a
Speaker 2: state of feeling depressed. Now I'm not a therapist. I
Speaker 2: agree with you out one hundred percent. Like, if you
Speaker 2: are dealing with severe depression, I hope that you have
Speaker 2: access to therapy and resources in that way that will
Speaker 2: be helpful to you. And I think that we can
Speaker 2: all take the time to create for ourselves as much
Speaker 2: as possible, a tool chest of resources that serve us
Speaker 2: when we're having a really hard time. So for me,
Speaker 2: what that can look like back to journaling, That can
Speaker 2: look like getting a journal that is simply a self
Speaker 2: love journal. This is a journal that I'm not putting
Speaker 2: anything into that is about my depression or my heartbreak.
Speaker 2: I'm only putting things in that are emotionally supportive. I'm
Speaker 2: putting things in it that I appreciate about myself. I'm
Speaker 2: inviting people in my life to send me love letters
Speaker 2: that I can paste into the journal. I'm writing my
Speaker 2: self love letters so that when I'm in that really
Speaker 2: depressed state of mind and I believe that there's no hope,
Speaker 2: I can open this book that is an expression of
Speaker 2: myself that is fueled with hope and love and self
Speaker 2: love and compassion, so I can see there actually is
Speaker 2: much more to my reality than my mind is telling
Speaker 2: me there is right now, right, and yeah, it's really helpful,
Speaker 2: like anything we can do to help ourselves, because when
Speaker 2: you're in it, when you're feeling dire and miserable, that's
Speaker 2: not the time necessarily to want to create these tools.
Speaker 2: We want to create these tools, and we actually can
Speaker 2: see some light in that way. When we're feeling dire invisible,
Speaker 2: we can pull out that journal, We can pull out
Speaker 2: those letters from people who love us and see us.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's great, Thank you for that. I want to
Speaker 1: bring up a chapter that you call the Cult, where
Speaker 1: this is a devotional situation where you got together and
Speaker 1: you don't describe the church obviously because you don't want
Speaker 1: to get in trouble, but talk a little bit about
Speaker 1: your experience in that group with a guru and what
Speaker 1: transpired when you decided you didn't want to stay any longer.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean I had a guru for thirteen years
Speaker 2: in the Bay Area. Was a part of this spiritual community,
Speaker 2: which I see as a cult because of the dynamics
Speaker 2: within it and the lack of free thought that was,
Speaker 2: you know, being in that setting. But it was also
Speaker 2: a very beautiful experience in many ways because foundationally which
Speaker 2: what was being preached was in lightened living and you know,
Speaker 2: living with love and compassion in your heart. And I
Speaker 2: responded very deeply to those messages, and they were foundational
Speaker 2: in the work that I do today. But what I
Speaker 2: came to see is often happens in these types of communities,
Speaker 2: is the Guru professed himself to be an enlightened master,
Speaker 2: and the more time I spent in this community, the
Speaker 2: harder it was for me to to believe that he
Speaker 2: was who he said he was right. It was like
Speaker 2: I was seeing I was seeing things that felt really
Speaker 2: cruel and really manipulative and really unenlightened. And so eventually
Speaker 2: I decided to walk away, and I lost my whole
Speaker 2: community of friends. He told them all to delete me
Speaker 2: from their lives, which just supported my decision to walk away.
Speaker 2: I mean, it really affirmed what I felt like I
Speaker 2: was seeing there. And I've never regretted walking away from
Speaker 2: that community, as much as I miss the love that
Speaker 2: was there when I was in it. What I came
Speaker 2: to learn it was a couple things. Cliff One, that
Speaker 2: I was so obsessed with the idea of becoming enlightened.
Speaker 2: It was like everything I was doing was because I
Speaker 2: wanted to be enlightened, and that desire to be enlightened
Speaker 2: created a lot of suffering in my life because I
Speaker 2: was constantly judging myself against a more enlightened version of
Speaker 2: myself that didn't exist, instead of just bringing acceptance to
Speaker 2: who I was in the moment. And ultimately, isn't that
Speaker 2: what we're seeking? We want to be in loving relationship
Speaker 2: with who we are as we are, without needing to
Speaker 2: be more evolved and more peaceful or more of whatever, whatever, whatever,
Speaker 2: And so walking away from that community, I also walked
Speaker 2: away from my obsession around enlightenment, which created for me
Speaker 2: so much more peace in my life. And it also
Speaker 2: everything I was doing to become enlightened, be more loving,
Speaker 2: be more forgiving, be more compassionate. I'm still deeply connected
Speaker 2: to all of those desires, but without the pressure of enlightenment,
Speaker 2: if that makes sense.
Speaker 1: Yeah, but aren't you becoming term enlightened by processing your stuff,
Speaker 1: by going through the layers like we're I always use
Speaker 1: the analogy like we're a big onion, and as we
Speaker 1: see an experience and acknowledge, we move through that layer.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I feel like we're evolving. I feel like I'm
Speaker 2: evolving all the time. I give a lot of energy
Speaker 2: to my growth and a lot of energy to my evolution.
Speaker 2: The difference for me is I don't care if I
Speaker 2: become enlightened anymore. It doesn't matter to me. There's no
Speaker 2: pressure around. I'm not chasing anything the way I used
Speaker 2: to be chasing, you know, that's for me. The difference, Yeah,
Speaker 2: I don't need I think there are very few enlightened
Speaker 2: people on this planet, and and I don't expect that
Speaker 2: I'm going to become one of them by the time
Speaker 2: I die, And that's okay with me. I'll still continue
Speaker 2: to pursue deeper peace within, deeper love within, you know,
Speaker 2: those things will I'll always be seeking more of and
Speaker 2: opening myself to more of.
Speaker 1: That's just I think we set ourselves up when we
Speaker 1: go seek gurus too. You know, we hear about what
Speaker 1: they call these divine beans in India. They're known as avatars.
Speaker 1: You know, they're physical, but they're so enlightened that they
Speaker 1: you know, don't have to eat or they by locate.
Speaker 1: They can be in one place and another place simultaneously.
Speaker 1: So who knows what that is, If it's superman or
Speaker 1: something to do it think about in the future, We
Speaker 1: just don't know.
Speaker 3: Well.
Speaker 2: One of the things I wrote about in that chapter
Speaker 2: two that I think is really important for people to
Speaker 2: remember is that because there are amazing teachers out there.
Speaker 2: You know, you have an amazing podcast that touches lots
Speaker 2: of people, and people learn a lot from you, and
Speaker 2: some people might look at you as a guru or
Speaker 2: one of their teachers. And it's like, I feel like
Speaker 2: it's really important to understand that any growth and healing
Speaker 2: that is created in your life is created from within you.
Speaker 2: It is the only possibility. And that is not to
Speaker 2: say that I have not been served and am continuing
Speaker 2: to be served by any number of amazing teachers and
Speaker 2: writers and thinkers and lovers out there. Absolutely, and ultimately
Speaker 2: it's what I do with it that is going to
Speaker 2: impact my life the most, which is to say that,
Speaker 2: And if you're not vibing with a teacher that you
Speaker 2: vibed with for twenty years and it's time to move on,
Speaker 2: then it's time to move on. Like you get to
Speaker 2: choose the teachers, you get to call into your life,
Speaker 2: and you get to unchoose those teachers if you feel
Speaker 2: called to unchoose them as well. So, no matter what
Speaker 2: others are, millions of people all are saying John Smith
Speaker 2: is the one, But you're not vibing with John Smith.
Speaker 2: You don't have to vibe with Johnsmith. He's not the
Speaker 2: one for you. And that's totally okay.
Speaker 1: There's so much freedom in how you're expressing yourself. Scott.
Speaker 1: It's like, I don't feel like being with this personity more.
Speaker 1: I'm out of here. I'm with this relationship. I don't
Speaker 1: like you you're doing. I'm hurting being hurt by you.
Speaker 1: I'm out of here. And I hear people. I can
Speaker 1: feel people listening to this going God, he's got Cohoni's
Speaker 1: He's just able to do whatever. Is that what it's
Speaker 1: all about? Though? Is it able to move so to
Speaker 1: experience something and go this is not serving me anymore.
Speaker 1: I need to move beyond. I need to evolve and
Speaker 1: move beyond that.
Speaker 2: You know, I think that I'm I think the more
Speaker 2: connected we are to our self worth and the more
Speaker 2: we love ourselves, the less likely we are to stay
Speaker 2: in relationships and situations that do not feel good. So
Speaker 2: for me, because I feel like I'm becoming more self
Speaker 2: loving all the time, I don't tell things that I
Speaker 2: used to tolerate in the same way. And also I
Speaker 2: stay in stuff longer than feels right, you know what
Speaker 2: I mean. It's like I'm not perfect at any of this.
Speaker 2: I'm I'm still just playing, but I'm much I'm much
Speaker 2: less inclined to participate in things and with people that
Speaker 2: do not feel good than I ever have been. I
Speaker 2: just can't. It's like it feels like I physically can't
Speaker 2: do it in the same way anymore. That's what it
Speaker 2: feels like inside.
Speaker 1: Yeah, And it feels like an evolved being of being
Speaker 1: able to sense when a situation isn't serving you, either
Speaker 1: for the very beginning or after a few get togethers.
Speaker 2: I don't know if it's Honestly, I don't know if
Speaker 2: it's evolved to be able to sense it, because I
Speaker 2: think most of us know when we're in a situation
Speaker 2: that is not serving us, or if we're in a
Speaker 2: relationship with a person that doesn't feel good. I think
Speaker 2: we know that. I think that we often don't have
Speaker 2: the courage to move beyond it. We Maybe it's because
Speaker 2: it's like I'm more afraid to be alone than I
Speaker 2: am to be in a relationship with someone I don't
Speaker 2: really like. Right, Like that comfort zone thing for many
Speaker 2: of us, Even if our comfort zone is one that
Speaker 2: is wildly uncomfortable, even that is better than the unknown
Speaker 2: for many of us until it isn't right and you
Speaker 2: start to see when you start walking away from things
Speaker 2: that don't feel good and you start to get the
Speaker 2: benefits of doing that, you're less inclined to stay in
Speaker 2: things that don't feel good. That's been my experience. I
Speaker 2: only speak from my experience.
Speaker 1: No, I mean, that's amazing. In the book, you have
Speaker 1: a theme which is almost I mean, it's prevalent. It's fear.
Speaker 1: How do we move beyond fear? That's a big one
Speaker 1: for a lot of people, including myself.
Speaker 2: You know, honestly befriended that is the first thing I
Speaker 2: really encourage people to do. Like I used to see
Speaker 2: my fear as my greatest enemy and the thing that
Speaker 2: was preventing me from living in alignment with my heart.
Speaker 2: And I went to this workshop years ago with Elizabeth Gilbert,
Speaker 2: who's this great writer, and oh yeah, and she had
Speaker 2: us write this letter. I do this in my workshops
Speaker 2: a lot now too, because it was so powerful for me.
Speaker 2: She had us write this letter to ourselves from our fear.
Speaker 2: And all we're supposed to do is allow our fear
Speaker 2: to tell us what its purpose in our life is.
Speaker 2: So I wrote this letter dear Scott, this is your fear,
Speaker 2: and here's why I'm in your life. And all the
Speaker 2: things it was saying were I just want to keep
Speaker 2: you safe. I don't want you to be rejected. I
Speaker 2: don't want you to be misunderstood. I don't want you
Speaker 2: to be hurt by others. And what I came to
Speaker 2: see was that all my fear is ever trying to
Speaker 2: do is keep me safe and protect me. It's actually
Speaker 2: my friend, it is actually serving me. It's just the
Speaker 2: way it does it is totally insane because it's like
Speaker 2: it looks it. It looks at any modicum of discomfort
Speaker 2: that could be created in my life, my fear is
Speaker 2: gonna say no to. So if I'm gonna, like, ask
Speaker 2: someone out on a date, my fear is gonna be like,
Speaker 2: don't do it, don't do it, and it's gonna do
Speaker 2: it with the vehemence it does of me running into traffic, Like,
Speaker 2: your fear does not want you to be uncomfortable, so
Speaker 2: it will always say no. But the reason it's doing
Speaker 2: it is to protect you. And if we can get
Speaker 2: into a friendly relationship with our fear, that's a great
Speaker 2: first step because anytime we're going to war with any
Speaker 2: aspect of who we are, we're just creating more war inside.
Speaker 2: So when my fear was this like evil warlock, I
Speaker 2: was always biting it. But now my fear is like
Speaker 2: this little brother. That's how I experience it. It's tugging
Speaker 2: on my pant leg, like, don't do that, You're gonna
Speaker 2: get hurt. Don't do that, They're gonna judge you. And
Speaker 2: the way I can relate to that fear is totally
Speaker 2: different than the way I can relate to this scary monster.
Speaker 2: And so now I'm so for me, it's like, befriend
Speaker 2: your fear and recognize it. It's not about becoming fearless.
Speaker 2: It's not about needing your fear to disappear in order
Speaker 2: to move forward. It's about understanding that you can bring
Speaker 2: your fear along with you. And Elizabeth Gilbert, the same writer,
Speaker 2: wrote this beautiful book called Big Magic about her experience
Speaker 2: relating to creativity, and she says that the conversation she
Speaker 2: has with her fear before she starts a new writing project,
Speaker 2: it goes something like this. She says to her fear, Look,
Speaker 2: I know you're only doing your job, and I know
Speaker 2: you need to come along for the ride, but you're
Speaker 2: in the back seat and under no circumstance do you
Speaker 2: get to drive the car. But I welcome you along
Speaker 2: the journey. And that's such a beautiful way I think
Speaker 2: to be with our fear as we're taking chances and
Speaker 2: making changes is to know that the fear is going
Speaker 2: to be there, that's the fear's job, but that we
Speaker 2: can still have our hands on the wheel and be
Speaker 2: the director of what we do even with our fear.
Speaker 2: And I again I say, all this is though it's
Speaker 2: the simplest thing in the world. It's not. It's hard,
Speaker 2: but all of this is just about understanding. It's all
Speaker 2: a skill and as with any skill, the more you
Speaker 2: practice at it, the better you become.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Amazing. The book's called Big Love. My guess today
Speaker 1: has been Scott's stable. Scott, who is this book for?
Speaker 2: Who?
Speaker 1: Did you write this for everybody? Or did you have
Speaker 1: somebody in mind who you're targeting?
Speaker 2: I truly you know?
Speaker 1: What?
Speaker 2: Can I? Can I? Since you set me up for it?
Speaker 2: Can I just read the intention of the book that
Speaker 2: I wrote introduction? Yeah, so's it really is for everyone?
Speaker 2: But what I wrote as in the introduction, I wrote,
Speaker 2: I'd like this book to remind you that you are
Speaker 2: not alone, not by a long shot. We are all imperfect,
Speaker 2: we all have busy, fearful minds, and we all struggle,
Speaker 2: every single one of us, every single day. I'd like
Speaker 2: the book to emphasize that you are as worthy of
Speaker 2: love as anyone who has ever lived, and that nothing
Speaker 2: you do could ever make you any less worthy or
Speaker 2: more worthy. For that matter, I'd like it to encourage
Speaker 2: you to take responsibility for every aspect of your life,
Speaker 2: knowing that by empowering yourself this way, you set yourself
Speaker 2: up for deeper peace and greater joy. I'd like it
Speaker 2: to open you up to perspectives you may not have
Speaker 2: considered or reinforced ones you may have forgotten, all of
Speaker 2: which will lead to a more open and honest relationship
Speaker 2: with yourself and others. Most important, I'd like this book
Speaker 2: to inspire you to consider love as the guiding force
Speaker 2: in your life, regardless of circumstance. Nothing stands to transform us,
Speaker 2: our relationships, and our world more than a commitment to
Speaker 2: live our lives from love. The bigger, the better. So
Speaker 2: that's who it's for.
Speaker 1: Thank you for that. Yeah, that sounds like everybody to me.
Speaker 1: Unless you're plan everybody.
Speaker 2: Who wants to live a more peaceful, loving life.
Speaker 1: Scott, give us your web address and how people can
Speaker 1: get a hold of you. And I understand you do seminars,
Speaker 1: So where do people sign up for those?
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean scottsdabuil dot com. I don't do much
Speaker 2: with my website, but that's one way to find me.
Speaker 2: But get on my newsletter. I have a substack newsletter,
Speaker 2: so it's scottsdabuil dot substack dot com and I you know,
Speaker 2: list everything that I have going on through that site
Speaker 2: as well.
Speaker 1: Fantastic, Wow, real fun having you on the program.
Speaker 2: Hey, it's been great, Cliff, thank you so much bout it.
Speaker 2: I appreciate it really.
Speaker 1: I think one of the things that got across to
Speaker 1: me regarding Scott's material is that we don't need to suffer.
Speaker 1: We really don't need to suffer. I'm one of these
Speaker 1: ones who've have martyred myself in past relationships with family
Speaker 1: and with friends and things, and you know, if it
Speaker 1: doesn't work out, you stick along with it, even though
Speaker 1: you can't stand being around people. I'm kind of moving
Speaker 1: beyond that now. And you know, Scott mentioned being selfish,
Speaker 1: you know, and that's not a negative thing when it
Speaker 1: comes to your mental health and your wellness and your happiness.
Speaker 1: Being selfish about that is and it may sound bad,
Speaker 1: but it's really not and I can recommend it. And
Speaker 1: that's not meaning that you're not being friendly, you're not
Speaker 1: being conscious and caring about your friends or your or
Speaker 1: your loved ones. It's just that really you come first,
Speaker 1: you know, bending over backwards for people who are not
Speaker 1: being conscious of who you are. This happens with a
Speaker 1: lot of families, and you know, one of the things
Speaker 1: that I think about is these some long term relationships,
Speaker 1: like my parents, they were they divorced right before I
Speaker 1: left for college, but they had been miserable for years,
Speaker 1: you know. And it's just a real tough place to
Speaker 1: be in when you are in a relationship with the
Speaker 1: person you know you're with you you just can't stand
Speaker 1: I can't imagine that. I just can't imagine it. So anyhow,
Speaker 1: Scott's book Big Love has just come out, and it's
Speaker 1: one I can recommend. It's a really easy read. He's
Speaker 1: a really good writer, so it's an easy read. Hey,
Speaker 1: if you're enjoying Destiny Earth Ancients or any of the
Speaker 1: other podcasts that we produce. Please consider becoming a subscriber
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Speaker 1: fairly new, they're some of the most iconic authors, some
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Speaker 1: all right. That's it for this program. I want to
Speaker 1: thank my guest today, Scott Steeble, and he's releasing his
Speaker 1: new book, Big Love. As always, the team of Gail
Speaker 1: Tour and Mark Foster and everyone who makes this thing happen.
Speaker 1: You guys a rock, all right, Take care every well,
Speaker 1: and we will talk to you next time. I belie