WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.080 --> 00:00:03.000 What's up, everyone, and welcome to another episode of the 2 00:00:03.000 --> 00:00:06.120 Epstein Chronicles. In this episode, we're going to pick up 3 00:00:06.120 --> 00:00:10.560 where he left off with the Leslie Groff interview with Congress. Question, 4 00:00:10.800 --> 00:00:12.759 I'd like to ask some questions about the period of 5 00:00:12.759 --> 00:00:17.839 time that mister Epstein was incarcerated. Mister Buckner jumps in, 6 00:00:17.960 --> 00:00:22.120 I'm sorry, first time or a second time? Question? First time? 7 00:00:22.160 --> 00:00:25.559 Thank you, backner, You're welcome. Question. Were you aware of 8 00:00:25.600 --> 00:00:29.920 him video calling women while he was incarcerated? Answer no question. 9 00:00:30.039 --> 00:00:32.079 Do you know at what point you learned that he 10 00:00:32.119 --> 00:00:36.200 was video calling women when he was incarcerated? Answer it 11 00:00:36.280 --> 00:00:39.679 was after Sarah Kelln's testimony. Question, so, as you know, 12 00:00:40.000 --> 00:00:43.600 during his incarceration at the pom Beach Stockade, mister Epstein 13 00:00:43.679 --> 00:00:45.960 secured a work release that allowed him to leave the 14 00:00:45.960 --> 00:00:48.840 stockade for up to twelve hours a day, six days 15 00:00:48.840 --> 00:00:52.520 a week, ostensibly to work at the office of the 16 00:00:52.560 --> 00:00:56.039 Florida Science Foundation in pomp Beach. Did you have any 17 00:00:56.079 --> 00:00:59.840 role in securing mister Epstein work release while he was incarcerated? 18 00:01:00.960 --> 00:01:05.120 Answer no question. What about the Florida Science Foundation Answer 19 00:01:05.239 --> 00:01:08.439 no question. Do you know what the Florida Science Foundation was? 20 00:01:08.760 --> 00:01:11.959 Answer I do not. Question do you know who was 21 00:01:12.040 --> 00:01:16.280 involved with the creation of the Florida Science Foundation? Answer no. 22 00:01:16.959 --> 00:01:20.959 Question did you ever visit the Florida Science Foundation office 23 00:01:20.959 --> 00:01:24.920 in Palm Beach? Answer I did twice. Question when was that? 24 00:01:25.519 --> 00:01:28.959 Answer it was during whatever, sometime in two thousand and eight, nine, 25 00:01:29.000 --> 00:01:32.480 two thousand and eight probably. Question So one visit was 26 00:01:32.519 --> 00:01:34.760 in two thousand and eight and one was in two 27 00:01:34.799 --> 00:01:38.439 thousand and nine, or you can't remember. Answer I can't remember. 28 00:01:38.799 --> 00:01:41.480 I don't know exactly when they were, but it was 29 00:01:41.519 --> 00:01:45.599 obviously when you know he had his work release. Question sure, 30 00:01:46.239 --> 00:01:48.640 do you have any sense of time of the year? Maybe? 31 00:01:48.879 --> 00:01:51.599 Answer it was Florida, it was nice out. I really 32 00:01:51.640 --> 00:01:56.040 I don't recall. Question what was the purpose of those visits? Answer? 33 00:01:56.280 --> 00:01:58.319 It was tel of coordinate a list of scientists, make 34 00:01:58.400 --> 00:02:01.000 phone calls, we set up in a appointment. I set 35 00:02:01.079 --> 00:02:05.920 up appointments, you know, just basic administrative things. Question why 36 00:02:05.959 --> 00:02:09.319 did you need to visit the office to do those things? Answer? 37 00:02:09.599 --> 00:02:12.360 I think he just wanted assemblance of normalcy. I don't know. 38 00:02:12.560 --> 00:02:15.520 He didn't tell me why I ordered some office supplies, 39 00:02:15.560 --> 00:02:18.199 you know, it was just mundane. Question were there young 40 00:02:18.199 --> 00:02:21.680 women who worked in the Florida Science Foundation's office. I 41 00:02:21.680 --> 00:02:25.400 don't know who was employed there. Answer his traveling assistant, 42 00:02:25.439 --> 00:02:28.280 Sarah was there. Question do you remember any other young 43 00:02:28.280 --> 00:02:31.319 women there? Answer? I believe she's the only one traveling 44 00:02:31.319 --> 00:02:35.360 assistant I saw, yes. Question did you ever organize or 45 00:02:35.439 --> 00:02:38.719 schedule anyone to visit mister Epstein at the Florida Science 46 00:02:38.719 --> 00:02:42.400 Foundation office? Answer yes, Marvin Minsky and his wife Gloria. 47 00:02:42.800 --> 00:02:45.919 They came and visited him. Darre Torres came one day. 48 00:02:46.120 --> 00:02:49.039 His attorneys would come in a lot. I know that story. 49 00:02:49.120 --> 00:02:52.520 Cowls was there the paralegal question could you say that 50 00:02:52.599 --> 00:02:58.639 name again? Please? It's Cowls. Cowls. I'm trying to remember 51 00:02:58.680 --> 00:03:01.439 who else. I mean, I definitely know the attorneys. I 52 00:03:01.520 --> 00:03:05.159 saw his pilot come in, Larry Vasoski igor his security 53 00:03:05.159 --> 00:03:08.919 guard and workout instructor. Question did you ever see or 54 00:03:08.919 --> 00:03:11.479 were you ever aware of any minor girls or young 55 00:03:11.520 --> 00:03:14.400 women visiting in the office not young women who work 56 00:03:14.439 --> 00:03:18.319 for him? Answer no. Question were you ever aware of 57 00:03:18.319 --> 00:03:21.439 any allegations that mister Epstein had sexually abused girls or 58 00:03:21.520 --> 00:03:25.520 women at the Florida Science Foundation office? Answer not until 59 00:03:25.520 --> 00:03:28.960 we were preparing for this testimony and yet things came out. 60 00:03:29.319 --> 00:03:32.159 Question did you have any knowledge of just day visiting 61 00:03:32.199 --> 00:03:35.000 mister Epstein while he was on work release? Answer I 62 00:03:35.000 --> 00:03:38.280 don't recall that question, Okay. At any point between two 63 00:03:38.319 --> 00:03:41.319 thousand and eight and twenty nineteen, were you aware of 64 00:03:41.360 --> 00:03:46.439 other investigations into mister Epstein? Answer no question. So you 65 00:03:46.520 --> 00:03:50.280 were never contacted by law enforcement during that period, answer 66 00:03:50.400 --> 00:03:55.360 no question. On July eighteenth, twenty nineteen, Vetereral prosecutors with 67 00:03:55.439 --> 00:03:59.680 the SDNY provided your attorneys with a reverse profer in 68 00:03:59.759 --> 00:04:01.759 a tempt to get you to meet with them for 69 00:04:01.840 --> 00:04:04.840 a profit to explain your role in mister Epstein's operation. 70 00:04:05.400 --> 00:04:07.400 Do you remember if you ended up meeting with the 71 00:04:07.400 --> 00:04:11.759 federal prosecutors answer I did? Rite yes, Yes, I did. Yes. 72 00:04:12.800 --> 00:04:15.879 Question and were you ever contacted by law enforcement as 73 00:04:15.919 --> 00:04:20.279 part of the investigation into Miss Maxwell? Answer no question. 74 00:04:21.000 --> 00:04:23.279 Did you ever set up bank accounts for any minor 75 00:04:23.319 --> 00:04:29.399 girls or young women associated with mister Epstein? Answer no question. 76 00:04:29.639 --> 00:04:32.199 You talked earlier about the apartment at three oh one 77 00:04:32.279 --> 00:04:35.480 E sixty sixth Street, might have just a few clarifying 78 00:04:35.560 --> 00:04:37.959 questions for you. Is it correct that mister Epstein had 79 00:04:38.000 --> 00:04:42.439 access to ten apartments in that building. Answer that sounds correct. 80 00:04:42.480 --> 00:04:45.480 That he had ten apartments. Yeah. Question and two of 81 00:04:45.519 --> 00:04:48.600 them were used as office spaces. Answer prior to that 82 00:04:48.639 --> 00:04:52.439 time period? Uh huh. Question for the time period that 83 00:04:52.959 --> 00:04:55.720 answer of two thousand and eight to eleven or ten. 84 00:04:56.279 --> 00:04:59.560 Question outside of that time period? Were those two offices? 85 00:04:59.600 --> 00:05:02.839 Excuse me me? Were those two apartments used similarly to 86 00:05:02.920 --> 00:05:07.040 the other apartments and that sometimes people would stay in them? Answer? Yes? 87 00:05:07.480 --> 00:05:10.240 Question and you talked about this earlier, but you said 88 00:05:10.279 --> 00:05:12.560 you were not sure that mister Ebstein. You're not sure 89 00:05:12.800 --> 00:05:16.279 whether mister Ebstein owned those apartments? Is that right? Answer? 90 00:05:16.319 --> 00:05:18.120 I thought at the time that he owned them, but 91 00:05:18.199 --> 00:05:20.399 that was just my assumption. I didn't speak to him 92 00:05:20.439 --> 00:05:23.319 about it. Question did you have any knowledge of his 93 00:05:23.360 --> 00:05:26.839 brother Mark owning any of those apartments? Answer? I did not. 94 00:05:27.600 --> 00:05:32.160 Question what about of his brother owning the building? Answer? 95 00:05:32.439 --> 00:05:35.519 I didn't know that he owned the building. Question and 96 00:05:35.560 --> 00:05:38.600 you spoke some about the difference between people who stayed 97 00:05:38.800 --> 00:05:41.160 in these apartments. Were some of those people working as 98 00:05:41.160 --> 00:05:45.439 models for MC squared model management? Answer? I believe redacted 99 00:05:45.519 --> 00:05:49.519 was a model with mc squared. Question any others? Answer 100 00:05:49.680 --> 00:05:51.959 not that I know of. Question do you know her 101 00:05:52.040 --> 00:05:55.839 last name. Answer redacted. Question It's been discussed a little 102 00:05:55.879 --> 00:05:58.240 bit in previous hours, but we have a few more 103 00:05:58.319 --> 00:06:02.360 questions about Bill Gates. Do you know Bill Gates and 104 00:06:02.439 --> 00:06:05.600 if he's ever flown on mister Epstein's plane? Answer I 105 00:06:05.600 --> 00:06:08.040 don't know. Question you don't know? Answer I don't know. 106 00:06:08.560 --> 00:06:11.000 Question do you know if mister Epstein ever flew on 107 00:06:11.040 --> 00:06:14.000 a plane owned by mister Gates? Answer I don't know. 108 00:06:14.639 --> 00:06:18.120 Question do you know if mister Epstein ever introduced any 109 00:06:18.160 --> 00:06:21.920 minor girls or young women to mister Gates? Answer no, 110 00:06:22.639 --> 00:06:26.759 question I'd like to introduce as minority. Exhibit one an 111 00:06:26.759 --> 00:06:30.439 email from February twenty seventh, twenty thirteen, which you sent 112 00:06:30.519 --> 00:06:34.560 to mister Epstein. The Bates number is EFTA zero two 113 00:06:34.639 --> 00:06:38.959 seven two zero five four six. Question. So the email 114 00:06:39.000 --> 00:06:42.800 says that redacted this is in the twelve twenty PM 115 00:06:43.079 --> 00:06:45.360 is arriving in New York and instructs Jojo to pick 116 00:06:45.399 --> 00:06:49.360 her up. Is that Jojo Fontania? Answer yes? Question okay, 117 00:06:49.560 --> 00:06:53.720 so who is misretacted? Answer I don't know. Question you 118 00:06:53.759 --> 00:06:56.600 don't know? Now did you know at the time? Answer 119 00:06:56.920 --> 00:07:00.480 I don't know now or back then? Question okay, did 120 00:07:00.480 --> 00:07:03.759 you know anything about her relationship with mister Epstein. Answer 121 00:07:03.879 --> 00:07:06.800 no question. Did you know anything about why she was 122 00:07:06.839 --> 00:07:10.319 traveling to New York? Answer no question. Do you know 123 00:07:10.360 --> 00:07:12.879 who paid for the trip to New York? Answer? I 124 00:07:12.879 --> 00:07:16.959 do not. Question. So, the email directs mister Fontania to 125 00:07:17.120 --> 00:07:20.079 drive her either to quote apartment or to meet mister 126 00:07:20.120 --> 00:07:23.439 Epstein at the Four Seasons at two pm? Is apartment 127 00:07:24.399 --> 00:07:27.279 apt and is that four three oh one E sixty 128 00:07:27.319 --> 00:07:31.959 sixth Street. Answer That's what I would think, yes. Question okay. 129 00:07:32.480 --> 00:07:35.240 These emails also state that mister Epstein's schedule to meet 130 00:07:35.439 --> 00:07:38.639 with mister Gates at the Four Seasons at two pm. 131 00:07:39.000 --> 00:07:42.319 Was it your understanding that mister Epstein intended to introduce 132 00:07:42.399 --> 00:07:46.040 mister Dactid to mister Gates. Answer I don't recall this 133 00:07:46.120 --> 00:07:48.879 at all. That would make sense to me, but I 134 00:07:48.879 --> 00:07:52.480 don't know. Question. Were there any other instances in which, 135 00:07:52.720 --> 00:07:55.480 when you say that would make sense? Is that because 136 00:07:55.480 --> 00:07:58.519 there were other instances in which mister Epstein introduced young 137 00:07:58.519 --> 00:08:02.360 women to mister Gates? Answer? No, it would make sense 138 00:08:02.360 --> 00:08:04.360 to me because it says that to take them to 139 00:08:04.399 --> 00:08:06.720 the Four Seasons, and I see that Bill Gates has 140 00:08:06.759 --> 00:08:09.920 an appointment at two question okay. And do you know 141 00:08:09.959 --> 00:08:13.319 whether mister Epstein did end up introducing mister Dacted to 142 00:08:13.480 --> 00:08:16.959 mister Gates. Answer I don't know. Question okay. And do 143 00:08:17.000 --> 00:08:18.720 you know why there was a ten to fifteen pm 144 00:08:18.759 --> 00:08:22.439 appointment with mister Gates on the same day with mister Epstein. 145 00:08:22.959 --> 00:08:27.560 Answer I don't know. Question Did mister Epstein frequently meet 146 00:08:27.759 --> 00:08:31.199 with business associates and professional contacts that late at night? 147 00:08:32.320 --> 00:08:35.080 Answer it's not common, but it's not unheard of either, 148 00:08:35.240 --> 00:08:37.919 I would think. Question And do you know why the 149 00:08:37.960 --> 00:08:40.720 meetings would take place that late at night? Answer? I 150 00:08:40.720 --> 00:08:44.240 don't know why. Question okay. Do you know when the 151 00:08:44.279 --> 00:08:48.679 relationship between mister Epstein and mister Gates ended? Answer it ended. 152 00:08:48.799 --> 00:08:51.720 I don't know. Question okay, you weren't aware that it 153 00:08:51.840 --> 00:08:56.399 ended at any particular point? Answer correct yes, question okay, 154 00:08:56.519 --> 00:09:00.000 And then switching gears a little bit for the following individuals. 155 00:09:00.240 --> 00:09:03.639 Were you ever aware of mister Epstein having business relationships 156 00:09:03.639 --> 00:09:07.440 with them? The first person is Sultan Ahmed bin Sulium. 157 00:09:08.679 --> 00:09:10.720 Answer I know that they knew each other, I don't 158 00:09:10.759 --> 00:09:14.679 know what the relationship was. Question okay. Howard Lutnick, who 159 00:09:14.720 --> 00:09:18.000 is now Secretary of Commerce, Answer I know that they 160 00:09:18.080 --> 00:09:20.320 knew each other, they were neighbors. I don't know what 161 00:09:20.360 --> 00:09:24.840 the relationship was. Question okay. Then Paolo Zampoli, I believe 162 00:09:24.879 --> 00:09:28.000 you earlier testified you didn't know who he was. Answer No, 163 00:09:28.320 --> 00:09:32.120 the name does not sound familiar. Question okay. And then 164 00:09:32.120 --> 00:09:35.559 a few more questions about additional people in mister Epstein's network. 165 00:09:35.919 --> 00:09:39.559 Can you describe who the following individuals your understanding of 166 00:09:39.639 --> 00:09:43.320 mister Epstein's relationship with them? The first one is Robert F. 167 00:09:43.399 --> 00:09:48.279 Kennedy Junior, who is now Secretary of Health and Human Services. Answer, 168 00:09:48.320 --> 00:09:51.000 I don't know. I wouldn't know that they communicated. I 169 00:09:51.039 --> 00:09:54.080 don't know. Question you didn't know that they had a relationship. 170 00:09:54.240 --> 00:09:58.720 Answer that's correct. Question okay. Steve Bannon Answer Steve Bannon, 171 00:09:58.879 --> 00:10:01.559 he had a relationship with I don't know what it was, 172 00:10:01.799 --> 00:10:03.679 but he would come to the house and he definitely 173 00:10:03.720 --> 00:10:06.960 spoke to him on the phone. Question okay. And I 174 00:10:07.039 --> 00:10:10.080 believe you testified earlier that you arranged a gift of 175 00:10:10.120 --> 00:10:13.039 an Apple watch from mister Epstein to mister Bannon. Is 176 00:10:13.039 --> 00:10:16.799 that correct? Answer? He was on the list. Yes. Question 177 00:10:16.960 --> 00:10:21.200 and were there any other times when you were involved 178 00:10:21.360 --> 00:10:24.440 in gifts from mister Epstein to mister Bannon. Answer no 179 00:10:24.879 --> 00:10:28.120 question okay. The next question is about Leon Botstein, who 180 00:10:28.159 --> 00:10:31.320 was the president of Bard College. Answer, I think there 181 00:10:31.320 --> 00:10:33.639 were friends. Leon would come to the house and they'd 182 00:10:33.679 --> 00:10:36.679 have lunch. I know mister Epstein also went out and 183 00:10:36.720 --> 00:10:40.480 saw mister Botstein as well. Question at Bard College answer yes, 184 00:10:41.240 --> 00:10:45.559 question okay. Noam Chomsky answer that was a friend of 185 00:10:45.600 --> 00:10:48.120 his as well. I don't know what the relationship was, 186 00:10:48.320 --> 00:10:50.879 but he definitely would get together with Noam and Lolam's 187 00:10:50.879 --> 00:10:55.240 wife who I can't remember her name. A question Michael Wolf. 188 00:10:55.799 --> 00:11:00.440 Answer Michael Wolf, Yes they had a relationship. There were friends, okay. 189 00:11:00.559 --> 00:11:03.559 And were you aware of any professional relationship between mister 190 00:11:03.600 --> 00:11:08.679 Epstein and mister Wolf. Answer no question okay. And Sarah 191 00:11:08.759 --> 00:11:12.639 Ferguson the Duchess of York answer Duchess of York, Yes 192 00:11:12.679 --> 00:11:16.759 there were friends also question okay. And Peter Mandelsson, I 193 00:11:16.759 --> 00:11:20.639 think you discussed earlier. Answer yes there were friends. Question 194 00:11:21.039 --> 00:11:23.559 were you ever aware of any monetary gifts from mister 195 00:11:23.600 --> 00:11:28.080 Epstein to the Duchess of York? Answer monetary gifts? Question yeah, 196 00:11:28.320 --> 00:11:31.360 answer not that I recall. Question okay, And what about 197 00:11:31.440 --> 00:11:36.799 mister Mandelsson. Answer not that I know of All right, folks, 198 00:11:36.799 --> 00:11:38.720 we're gonna wrap up right here, and in the next 199 00:11:38.720 --> 00:11:40.960 episode dealing with the topic, we're gonna pick up where 200 00:11:40.960 --> 00:11:43.840 we left off. All the information that goes with this 201 00:11:43.919 --> 00:11:47.519 episode can be found in the description box. What's up, everyone, 202 00:11:47.559 --> 00:11:51.600 and welcome to another episode of the Epstein Chronicles. In 203 00:11:51.639 --> 00:11:53.879 this episode, we're gonna dive right back into the Leslie 204 00:11:53.879 --> 00:11:58.559 Groff interview with Congress. Question Okay, you spoke earlier about 205 00:11:58.600 --> 00:12:02.200 some elements of your relationship with mister Epstein's estate. I 206 00:12:02.279 --> 00:12:04.399 just want to get some clarity for the record on 207 00:12:04.480 --> 00:12:07.279 the nature of that. You mentioned that mister Epstein had 208 00:12:07.279 --> 00:12:09.879 a fund set up to pay attorney fees, but that 209 00:12:10.039 --> 00:12:13.600 ended when he died. Is that accurate? Answer? Yes, that's accurate. 210 00:12:13.960 --> 00:12:17.759 Question okay. How long was the fund in existence? Answer? Oh, 211 00:12:17.799 --> 00:12:21.120 I don't know. Question okay. Answer. I only found out 212 00:12:21.120 --> 00:12:23.720 about it when I needed money to hire an attorney. 213 00:12:24.399 --> 00:12:26.879 Question and when did that happen? Answer in July of 214 00:12:26.879 --> 00:12:30.840 twenty nineteen, probably question after he was arrested. Answer yes, 215 00:12:31.120 --> 00:12:34.919 question okay, And do you know was that fund available 216 00:12:34.960 --> 00:12:37.799 to anyone in mister Epstein's staff? What was the category 217 00:12:37.799 --> 00:12:41.120 of people who were eligible to receive money. Answer, I 218 00:12:41.159 --> 00:12:43.720 really don't know. I believe it was staff, but I 219 00:12:43.720 --> 00:12:45.960 don't know if there were other people involved or on 220 00:12:46.000 --> 00:12:49.120 that plan as well. Question Okay, how did you become 221 00:12:49.159 --> 00:12:52.200 aware of the existence of that fund? Answer my attorneys? 222 00:12:52.600 --> 00:12:56.720 Question your attorneys became aware of that answer correct question okay. 223 00:12:57.519 --> 00:12:59.639 And is it the case that after his death, your 224 00:12:59.679 --> 00:13:02.799 attorne needs would submit invoices to the estate. Is that 225 00:13:02.840 --> 00:13:07.039 what you testified earlier? Answer correct question according to the 226 00:13:07.039 --> 00:13:11.000 same terms of the fund that had existed before. Answer 227 00:13:11.080 --> 00:13:13.600 that had existed before. I didn't know about the fund. 228 00:13:14.039 --> 00:13:17.200 Question I mean the fund before he died. Answer, oh, yeah, 229 00:13:17.240 --> 00:13:20.759 before he died. Yes, they would submit the invoices. Question 230 00:13:20.799 --> 00:13:25.440 to the estate. Answer to the estate. Question. So, other 231 00:13:25.480 --> 00:13:28.600 than those attorney fee reimbursements and the settlement as a 232 00:13:28.639 --> 00:13:31.399 result of the claim against the estate, have you received 233 00:13:31.440 --> 00:13:35.559 any money from mister Epstein's estate? Answer other than the 234 00:13:35.600 --> 00:13:40.240 one we already discussed question correct answer, no question. And 235 00:13:40.320 --> 00:13:43.600 are you entitled to any compensation from that estate in 236 00:13:43.639 --> 00:13:47.399 your understanding? Answer? No question? Okay. Do you currently hold 237 00:13:47.440 --> 00:13:51.759 any interest or stake in mister Epstein's estate? Answer no, question, 238 00:13:52.120 --> 00:13:54.960 and have you had any contact with mister Epstein's estate 239 00:13:55.159 --> 00:14:01.200 administrators or their representatives since mister Epstein's death? Answer no question. Okay, 240 00:14:02.000 --> 00:14:04.440 did you have any contact with Darren Endyke or Richard 241 00:14:04.480 --> 00:14:08.039 Kahn in the preparation for their depositions before the committee 242 00:14:08.240 --> 00:14:13.480 or your interview before the committee? Answer no question. When's 243 00:14:13.480 --> 00:14:15.039 the last time that you spoke with them? If you 244 00:14:15.080 --> 00:14:17.960 recall Ms. Groff, it would be when he went to jail. 245 00:14:18.200 --> 00:14:21.879 Mister Epstein went to jail, probably right after that question. 246 00:14:21.960 --> 00:14:25.440 Do you recall the context of that discussion? Groff? I 247 00:14:25.480 --> 00:14:28.399 think everybody was surprised and worried, but I don't recall 248 00:14:28.519 --> 00:14:34.279 anything offhand. Question. I've got a few questions about arranged marriages. 249 00:14:34.799 --> 00:14:37.559 We know that mister Epstein arranged marriages between American women 250 00:14:37.759 --> 00:14:40.519 that he sexually abused and foreign women who are trying 251 00:14:40.559 --> 00:14:42.879 to stay in the country. Did you ever have any 252 00:14:43.000 --> 00:14:48.799 role in arranging marriages between women connected to mister Epstein? Ms? Groff, no, Backner, 253 00:14:48.960 --> 00:14:51.159 Can I have one second when you say anything to 254 00:14:51.159 --> 00:14:55.559 do with you? Can? Can you just explain? Groff? Yeah, 255 00:14:55.720 --> 00:14:57.960 I do know that there's an email that exists. I 256 00:14:58.039 --> 00:15:01.279 directed excuse me, I didn't direct. Mister Epstein directed me 257 00:15:01.639 --> 00:15:04.320 to have as driver Jojo, pick up redacted and are 258 00:15:04.360 --> 00:15:07.080 adacted person and go to the marriage place or whatever. 259 00:15:07.559 --> 00:15:09.679 But no one ever spoke to me about it. I 260 00:15:09.720 --> 00:15:12.600 didn't really know what was going on. It really wasn't 261 00:15:12.679 --> 00:15:14.639 until after he went to jail that it came to 262 00:15:14.720 --> 00:15:17.799 light to me. Question, got it so, at the time, 263 00:15:18.000 --> 00:15:20.919 you were not aware of mister Epstein arranging marriages between 264 00:15:20.960 --> 00:15:25.759 women connected to him? Correct answer, That is correct question. 265 00:15:25.879 --> 00:15:28.600 But you're aware of him doing it now? Answer now, 266 00:15:28.639 --> 00:15:32.600 I am yes. Question. Did you ever provide false information 267 00:15:32.960 --> 00:15:36.600 to substantiate a marriage between women connected to mister Epstein? 268 00:15:36.879 --> 00:15:40.360 Answer no question. Did you ever have knowledge of anyone 269 00:15:40.360 --> 00:15:45.279 else providing information excuse me, providing false information to substantiate 270 00:15:45.320 --> 00:15:50.039 a marriage between women connected to mister Epstein? Answer no question. 271 00:15:50.320 --> 00:15:53.159 You've been asked a few times about the hairdresser Frederick Focai. 272 00:15:53.600 --> 00:15:55.840 I believe you said you're not aware of mister Epstein 273 00:15:55.879 --> 00:15:59.320 ever introducing minor girls or young women to him for 274 00:15:59.360 --> 00:16:03.360 the purpose of an engaging in sexual activity. Correct answer, yes, 275 00:16:03.360 --> 00:16:07.240 correct question, And also that you are not otherwise aware 276 00:16:07.279 --> 00:16:11.879 of sexual abuse allegations against mister Focai. Correct answer correct, 277 00:16:12.480 --> 00:16:14.679 mister Bockner, you mean at the time as well? Right 278 00:16:14.759 --> 00:16:18.799 back then correct answer or question correct? Thank you, mister Bockner. 279 00:16:21.279 --> 00:16:26.639 Majority Exhibit Jay was Mark for identification. I'd like to 280 00:16:26.639 --> 00:16:29.840 introduce as minority Exhibit Jay this email from you to 281 00:16:29.879 --> 00:16:34.399 mister Epstein from November eighteenth, twenty ten. The subject line 282 00:16:34.440 --> 00:16:38.399 is Frederick Fokai. The Bates number is EFTA zero two 283 00:16:38.879 --> 00:16:43.360 four one four three seven eight. Question in the email, 284 00:16:43.399 --> 00:16:46.519 you say quote Frederick Fokai just texted me asking if 285 00:16:46.559 --> 00:16:49.200 he could use the massage room today at ten am 286 00:16:49.279 --> 00:16:53.080 with his messuse Do you remember this email at all? Answer? 287 00:16:53.120 --> 00:16:56.000 I do not. Question. Is this something that mister Focai 288 00:16:56.080 --> 00:16:59.480 would do generally, ask to use the massage room? Answer 289 00:16:59.759 --> 00:17:02.120 this is like seeing it for the first time. I 290 00:17:02.159 --> 00:17:05.039 don't recall mister Fay asking to use the massage room. 291 00:17:05.359 --> 00:17:08.440 Question sure, But separate from the email, do you have 292 00:17:08.440 --> 00:17:11.240 any other memory of mister Fokai asking to do this generally? 293 00:17:12.000 --> 00:17:14.720 Answer no. Question. Is this something that any of the 294 00:17:14.759 --> 00:17:17.359 other men in mister Epstein's network would ask to do 295 00:17:17.640 --> 00:17:21.200 to use the massage room? Answer no. Question. Have you 296 00:17:21.200 --> 00:17:24.160 had any contact with Glenn Maxwell between mister Epstein's death 297 00:17:24.279 --> 00:17:29.400 and her arrest, Graff, no question. And since miss Maxwell's arrest, 298 00:17:29.680 --> 00:17:31.839 have you had any contact with her or any of 299 00:17:31.880 --> 00:17:37.319 her representatives? Graff, no question. Okay, miss Groff, you said 300 00:17:37.359 --> 00:17:39.640 something during your opening statement that I'd like to ask 301 00:17:39.680 --> 00:17:42.519 you about. You said that the massages that you scheduled 302 00:17:42.519 --> 00:17:45.759 were I think I got this down verbatim. I might 303 00:17:45.799 --> 00:17:48.079 be off by a word or two quote, just another 304 00:17:48.119 --> 00:17:50.839 small part of the elite world I was not from. 305 00:17:51.799 --> 00:17:53.960 We have asked you a lot of questions about massages. 306 00:17:54.400 --> 00:17:57.480 Our counterparts have asked you a lot of questions about massages. 307 00:17:58.039 --> 00:17:59.839 I want to be clear that your testimony is that 308 00:18:00.160 --> 00:18:02.599 no point in the eighteen years that you work for 309 00:18:02.680 --> 00:18:05.000 him that you thought that it was strange that he 310 00:18:05.039 --> 00:18:09.000 had girls and young women coming over to massage them. Correct, 311 00:18:09.279 --> 00:18:14.480 mister Whitcomb, objection forum girls. She never really well, continue, Backner. 312 00:18:14.480 --> 00:18:17.400 Do you mean girls miners or do you mean girls? Witcomb? 313 00:18:17.640 --> 00:18:20.680 That's what I meant. Question. Let's just say young women 314 00:18:20.720 --> 00:18:23.960 for now. Backner. Okay, Groff, No, I did not know 315 00:18:24.039 --> 00:18:28.119 mister Epstein had miners coming over to give him a massage. Question. 316 00:18:28.240 --> 00:18:31.160 Let's just say young women. Your testimony, Is that at 317 00:18:31.160 --> 00:18:33.240 no point in the eighteen years that you work for 318 00:18:33.319 --> 00:18:35.599 him that you thought it was strange that he had 319 00:18:35.640 --> 00:18:39.960 all these young women come in massage. Answer, well, that 320 00:18:40.079 --> 00:18:42.279 was only from the beginning two thousand and one to 321 00:18:42.279 --> 00:18:44.240 when he went to jail. I didn't know the rages 322 00:18:44.279 --> 00:18:46.519 at all. It was a normal part of his day. 323 00:18:46.960 --> 00:18:49.039 To me, it was like a luxury. I couldn't believe 324 00:18:49.039 --> 00:18:51.359 that somebody would pay for you know, do that you 325 00:18:51.359 --> 00:18:53.880 know every day? That was a luxury you did once 326 00:18:53.880 --> 00:18:57.079 a year. Question do you think that these women were 327 00:18:57.119 --> 00:19:01.279 professional messuses? You've used that term a lot. You used 328 00:19:01.319 --> 00:19:04.400 it in your opening statement, you used it throughout your testimony. 329 00:19:04.880 --> 00:19:08.839 Did you think that these were professional messuses? Answer? I 330 00:19:08.880 --> 00:19:12.039 believe that was what they wanted to do. That was 331 00:19:12.079 --> 00:19:14.440 part of something that they did. I don't know if 332 00:19:14.440 --> 00:19:18.160 that was their career, but question it was what they 333 00:19:18.160 --> 00:19:21.480 wanted to do or it's what they did. Answer. I 334 00:19:21.519 --> 00:19:24.240 had sometimes people call me and ask if mister Epstein 335 00:19:24.279 --> 00:19:27.400 was in town could have a massage. Question So you 336 00:19:27.480 --> 00:19:31.880 believe that these young women were professional messuses? Answer? I 337 00:19:31.920 --> 00:19:33.960 never met these women, so I didn't know if they 338 00:19:33.960 --> 00:19:36.119 were young or how old they were. First of all, 339 00:19:36.680 --> 00:19:38.640 I thought that it was just something that he did, 340 00:19:38.960 --> 00:19:41.680 like going to the gym. Questions, So you didn't have 341 00:19:41.720 --> 00:19:45.400 a belief either way that they were professional messuses or 342 00:19:45.440 --> 00:19:49.200 were not professional messuses. Answer well, when you say professional 343 00:19:49.279 --> 00:19:52.240 like working for a company. Question working for a company 344 00:19:52.480 --> 00:19:55.079 or having gone through the requisite training and having whatever 345 00:19:55.200 --> 00:19:58.400 license and certification is needed to be a massage therapist 346 00:19:58.559 --> 00:20:01.559 in the state of New York. Answer right, I didn't 347 00:20:01.559 --> 00:20:04.480 ask questions. The name and phone number was given to me. 348 00:20:04.759 --> 00:20:08.519 I assume that they were a messuse. Question You were 349 00:20:08.559 --> 00:20:11.640 unaware that mister Epstein was exceptionally wealthy? Correct or you 350 00:20:11.759 --> 00:20:15.319 were aware? Excuse me? Answer yes, question, so he could 351 00:20:15.319 --> 00:20:19.519 have afforded the best messuse in New York correct answer, sure, question, 352 00:20:19.839 --> 00:20:22.839 but instead he had dozens, at least from your perspective, 353 00:20:23.160 --> 00:20:26.920 of young women, oftentimes different young women massaging them, and 354 00:20:27.000 --> 00:20:31.359 that didn't seem abnormal to you. Backner, Just point of clarification. 355 00:20:31.799 --> 00:20:34.240 She said she didn't know how old they were. But 356 00:20:34.279 --> 00:20:37.240 other than that, go ahead, graff. Yeah, it did not 357 00:20:37.319 --> 00:20:40.000 seem odd to me. When I was hired, it was 358 00:20:40.079 --> 00:20:42.160 I was told this was just something that he does, 359 00:20:42.519 --> 00:20:44.559 and everybody treated it like it was no big deal, 360 00:20:45.319 --> 00:20:47.519 and I was just told that to keep his calendar 361 00:20:47.559 --> 00:20:51.759 and schedule his appointments. So question, So to mister Backner's 362 00:20:51.799 --> 00:20:54.599 clarification that you did not know how old they were, 363 00:20:54.920 --> 00:20:57.839 you did call these young women. Correct answer, I would 364 00:20:57.880 --> 00:21:01.400 call and make appointments. Yes. Question Ms Groff, do you 365 00:21:01.400 --> 00:21:03.200 think that a fourteen year old sounds the same as 366 00:21:03.240 --> 00:21:06.519 a person in their twenties or thirties or forties. Answer 367 00:21:06.519 --> 00:21:09.480 It's possible. I don't know. I was not evaluating voices. 368 00:21:09.880 --> 00:21:13.680 Nobody ever sounded like they were underage. Question Okay, we 369 00:21:13.759 --> 00:21:16.519 have a couple more questions about mister Epstein's relationship with 370 00:21:16.599 --> 00:21:20.000 Elon Musk. Were you aware of Epstein having a relationship 371 00:21:20.000 --> 00:21:23.839 with Elon Musk? Answer? I am aware. No, I mean, 372 00:21:23.880 --> 00:21:26.799 I'm aware that he went and saw SpaceX. At the time, 373 00:21:27.039 --> 00:21:29.839 I didn't even know what SpaceX was, so I don't 374 00:21:29.920 --> 00:21:33.319 I don't know about a relationship with Elon Musk. Question So, 375 00:21:33.559 --> 00:21:36.240 you were aware at the time of mister Epstein's visit 376 00:21:36.279 --> 00:21:39.240 to SpaceX, but not of any relationship between the two 377 00:21:39.279 --> 00:21:43.240 of them beyond that answer? Correct question Okay, were you 378 00:21:43.319 --> 00:21:46.279 aware of mister Musk ever requesting to visit any of 379 00:21:46.319 --> 00:21:50.640 mister Epstein's properties. Answer no. Question okay, and so also, 380 00:21:50.720 --> 00:21:53.839 were you aware of mister Musk ever actually visiting any 381 00:21:53.880 --> 00:21:57.240 of mister Epstein's properties? Answer no. Question was it just 382 00:21:57.319 --> 00:22:01.720 one visit to SpaceX? Answer yes? Question when did that 383 00:22:01.759 --> 00:22:05.440 take place? Answer? I don't know twenty fourteen? Question okay, 384 00:22:05.559 --> 00:22:10.279 And do you remember or are thereabouts twenty fourteen? Backner? 385 00:22:10.400 --> 00:22:14.000 Don't guess groth, okay, don't guess. I don't backner. Does 386 00:22:14.039 --> 00:22:17.319 anybody help groth? I don't know. I really don't know. 387 00:22:17.960 --> 00:22:21.680 Question are you or do you remember whether anybody accompanied 388 00:22:21.680 --> 00:22:25.680 mister Epstein on his visit to SpaceX? Answer? I believe 389 00:22:25.759 --> 00:22:28.319 some of his traveling assistants went with them. They always 390 00:22:28.319 --> 00:22:32.160 went with them. Question okay, answer, but I don't know who. 391 00:22:32.440 --> 00:22:35.720 Question do you know which of the traveling assistants? Answer right? 392 00:22:36.079 --> 00:22:40.359 Question okay, thank you. Question. I'd like to take a 393 00:22:40.359 --> 00:22:43.240 few minutes to ask you some kind of summarizing questions 394 00:22:43.279 --> 00:22:45.440 to make sure that the record is clear about your 395 00:22:45.440 --> 00:22:48.920 testimony today. During the time that you work for mister Epstein, 396 00:22:49.119 --> 00:22:51.799 were you ever aware of mister Epstein's sexually abusing minor 397 00:22:51.880 --> 00:22:55.839 girls or young women? Answer no, question. During the time 398 00:22:55.880 --> 00:22:58.079 that you work for mister Epstein, were you aware of 399 00:22:58.079 --> 00:23:01.480 mister Epstein introducing minor roles or young women to other 400 00:23:01.559 --> 00:23:04.799 men for the purpose of engaging in sexual activity with 401 00:23:04.839 --> 00:23:08.440