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Speaker 1: You're listening to the Mind Over Murder podcast.

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Speaker 2: My name is Bill Thomas. I'm a writer, consulting, producer,

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and now podcaster. I am now trying to use my

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experience as the brother of a murder victim to help

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other victims of violent crime. I'm working on a book

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on the unsolved Colonial Parkway murders and I'm the co

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administrator of the Colonial Parkway Murders Facebook group together with

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Kristin Dilly.

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Speaker 3: My name is Kristin Dilly. I'm a writer, a researcher,

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a teacher, and a victim's advocate, as well as the

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social media manager and co administrator for the Colonial Parkway

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Murders Facebook page with my partner in crime, Bill Thomas.

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Welcome to Mind Ever Murder. I'm Kristin Dilly.

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Speaker 2: And I'm Bill Thomas.

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Speaker 3: We are joined today by author Katrina Brownlee here to

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talk to us about her brand new book and then

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came The Blues, my story of survival on both sides

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of the badge. Katrina, thank you for joining us today.

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We really appreciate you taking the time.

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Speaker 4: Thank you for having me.

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Speaker 2: I'm excited and just so you know, everybody, Katrina, being

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former law enforcement was just grilling us before the podcast started.

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She wanted to know everything good.

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Speaker 3: Trina start by telling us about your twenty year career

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with the New York Police Department. I should probably say

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your twenty year illustrious career with the police department, because

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I am very impressed that you're taking the time to

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hang out with us today.

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Speaker 4: I got to add a couple more years to that.

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Speaker 5: It's actually twenty four years because I did almost four

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years as a traffic agent okay the years. It's a

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police officer slash detective. So it was a great experience

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for me. I also had the experience to be able

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to be in different units. And I started out as

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a rookie cop in the seven seventh Precinct in Brooklyn.

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Actually it's a neighborhood in which I grew up and

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hung out in. And then from there, early on I

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made detective. I had three years on it job and

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I became an undercover. And I was an undercover five

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and a half years, and I was an undercover actually

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in every borough in New York City. That was a

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great experience, and I went on to do community affairs.

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From there, I got on to Mayor build de Blasios

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Security Detail, and I did eight years there and I

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retired from his detail, and here we are.

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Speaker 2: You wore a lot of hats over a twenty four

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year law enforcement career.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, it sounded from the book that maybe community affairs

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was where you really wanted to spend your time. Was

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that the part that you would say you enjoyed the most.

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Speaker 5: That's a good question. I think for me, community affairs

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was different from everything else because I had my pros

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and my cons. The community piece was I was able

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to start my organization, Young Ladies of our Future. Starting

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that organization allowed me to be able to get into

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the community and be able to just hear the voice

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of the community and be able to try to budge

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a gap between a community and.

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Speaker 4: A police department. So that was my aim there.

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Speaker 5: The police department and the community have been broken for

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so long, so I wanted to really get in there

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and just listen to the people on the other side

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and just see what they felt and be able to

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contribute in a positive way to the community.

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Speaker 2: How does something like that contrast then with working undercover? Oh?

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Speaker 5: That was that was actually like acting. So that was

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also something that I always wanted to do was to

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be an undercover because I used to watch the show

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New York Undercover. So when I got there, it was

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like it was not no New York bal there just

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to be living and being someone other than yourself for

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so long, I had to literally like change who I

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was and get into character every day. So even when

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I was not working, I really had to stay and

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stay in the character. So I did that for five

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and a half years, and it took me a couple

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of years to actually get out of character. I saw

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myself still doing a lot of drug addic things and ways.

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I should say, speak a lot about that in the book.

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Speaker 3: You began working with the NYPD after you were shot

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and left for dad by your then fiance, and I'm

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not going to give him a name because he doesn't

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deserve to have his name mentioned. How did that attempt

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on your life lead to your decision to become a

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police officer.

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Speaker 5: Because of my past experience when I did call the

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police to respond, they did not respond in a way

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that I thought that they should have, and I got

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the opportunity to become a police officer, and my goal

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in my dream was to just be a good cop.

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Speaker 3: You talked about wanting to be the good cop and

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the people who are there for others when someone was

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not there for you. When you look at your career

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within your police department, what do you feel is ultimately

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the most rewarding work that you did the best times

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when you were a good cop who was there for

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somebody who needed you.

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Speaker 5: I believe when I was in community of is because

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I was able to connect, I was able to relate,

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I was able to serve, I was able to protect

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at the same time, and I was able to start

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my organization and to target at rich young women in

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the community in which I work.

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Speaker 2: Do you feel like the disconnect between community and law enforcement.

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Obviously that's not unique to New York, but do you

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feel like it's been more of a problem. As a

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former New Yorker myself, do you feel like that's been

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more of a problem in New York than in other

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major cities around the country.

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Speaker 5: I really don't think that it's. To be honest, the

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New York City Police Department is probably, if I'm correct,

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the biggest law enforcement police department right in the world.

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So I think that's why it may seem that it's

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more of a problem there because it's so big where

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the other police departments are not as big. So that's

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probably what the difference may be in terms of me

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answering that question.

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Speaker 4: If that makes sense.

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Speaker 2: No, I think it does make perfect sense. So you

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just feel like with the size of the community, And interestingly,

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Los Angeles and Chicago have substantially smaller police departments than

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New York, Right, So you think it's just the sheer

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number of millions of citizens, thousands of police officers and

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all of those day to day interactions that create opportunities

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for things to go bad.

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Speaker 4: Yes, exactly, I'll say, very well.

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Speaker 3: Say, one of the things I want to make sure

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we talk about is your various organizations. You had referenced

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Young Ladies of Our Future. So can you start by

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telling us a little bit about the organization and then

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how you started it.

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Speaker 5: The organization is called Young Ladies of Our Future. It

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is a mentor program life coaching program program where I

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allfer different workshops up to sixteen weeks, and then after

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the workshops, the I give a formal commencement to the

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young ladies and hand them out roses. And it also

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it's geared towards at ris young women in some of

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the property stricken communities. I started it in when I

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was a community affairs officer in the NYPD, so that's

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where I got my start from. So now I've decided

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to take the organization in a different direction.

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Speaker 4: People reach out to me all.

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Speaker 5: Over the world, and I want to be able to

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reach out to people and about the different workshops that

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I offer in terms of self awareness, self esteem, etiquette, law,

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one on one here, and makeup day just to make

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the girls feel good about themselves. I'd go out and

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do volunteer work twice a year, which is Thanksgiving and Christmas,

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where I give back to the community, which is a

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homeless shelter where I feed the homeless because I once

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was homeless.

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Speaker 4: I also give out.

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Speaker 5: Pay for vouchers for people to get food during a

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Christmas time because I understand and I can relate to

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being hungry during those times such as the holidays. So

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I want to be able to open up that globally

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and I go out and do speaking engagements all over

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the country.

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Speaker 2: What's the reaction like from young ladies, for example, that

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are participating in the mentorship program for Young Ladies of

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the Future. When you were on active duty, were they

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stand offish because you are a police officer. Is there

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a distrust? How does that relationship develop over time.

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Speaker 5: In terms of what the young ladies that I worked

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with in terms of the community.

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Speaker 2: Both actually, but I was thinking about young people who

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some of them are at risk and they're participating in

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a mentorship program. There's a lot of good that can

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be created by something like that. But I was wondering

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if they were distanced or distrustful because here you are,

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You're coming in as an active duty police officer. Do

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they trust the police? Did they hold the police at

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the arm's length?

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Speaker 5: Well, it's a lot of distrust in the community and

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especially with the younger people when it comes to the police.

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And so that's where I come in to try to

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bridge that gap and teach them about law one on one,

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teach them about their rights, and teach them how to

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interact when they all stopped by the police or have

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an interaction with the police. The distrusts and I understand

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people's distrust of the police department, right, because that was

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my experience years ago, right, And so now I come

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on the other side. So I was able to be

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able to experience on both hands. So I think that's

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what made me be able to go in and be

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very effective in a different way and not go in

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with knowing that it's going to change. I went in

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with the hope that it would change, and I was

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able to get the children. Not the children, but I

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was able to reach the young ladies in that way

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because of my own personal experience is that I had

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with the police department. So I think that's where I

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was able to have one up on someone that maybe

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didn't have that same experience.

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Speaker 3: Is that a program that you've ever thought about. You

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said you wanted to take it global, which I think

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is a fantastic idea. Have you ever thought about doing

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partnerships with schools? As an English teacher, a high school

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English teacher during the year, I definitely see that there

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is a need in the community for some additional bridging

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the gap between the school and community, and that sounds

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like a really great way to do that. Is that

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something you've ever thought about doing in conjunction with any

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of the schools.

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Speaker 4: I would love to.

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Speaker 5: Actually, it's funny you say that, because that's something that's

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been on my mind. I would love for it to

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be into the school system because a lot of times

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children they come from broken homes, so with my workshops,

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they can be able to teach you something that you

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may can't get at home. I also would like to

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put it into the juvenile the detention centers also because

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it is supposed to be reformed. So if you're not

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giving them anything to be able to be reformed, how

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can they be reformed?

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Speaker 3: Absolutely now that I think that's fantastic because we are

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missing something in that piece, especially with the juvenile justice system.

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And I love this idea that you have that we're

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supposed to be We're not supposed to be giving up

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on these kids if they're in the juvenile justice system,

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we're supposed to be helping them reform the behavior. So

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I love that if you were going to take such

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a step, do you have any idea how you would

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do it? One.

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Speaker 5: I would like to go through policy and government because

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if you go through that way, then you know that

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it's in We speak all day about it, and everybody

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won't say yes. Just because you have a story and

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people may be interested in the story, it doesn't mean

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that they'll be interested in your yes and saying listen,

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I want this in the school. So I would like

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to go through government so it can be mandated.

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Speaker 3: I think that's a fantastic idea. You also have a

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second organization called Can't Be Silenced. Can you talk to

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us a little bit about the work that you do

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with Can't Be Silenced.

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Speaker 5: Can't be Silenced is my domestic violence organization. Can't Be

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Silence came about because I was silenced for so many

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years about what had happened to me, and so now

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I get to be able to have a voice, and

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I begin I have the ability now to be the

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voice for the voiceless and the hope for the hopeless.

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Speaker 2: I don't want to dwell on all of the challenges

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that you've faced, but I think it's important to talk about.

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Tell us a little bit about your experience in terms

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of encountering abuse and the lack of response from law enforcement.

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I know that ultimately helped inspire you to become a

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police officer. What would happen that law enforcement would come

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to a report of a problem domestic violence and then

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do nothing? Why was that happening?

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Speaker 5: I think the blue Wall of silence, the family of

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blue law enforcement, I think that's what it was about.

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I think it was to protect the blue and not

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protect the victim. I don't want I don't want my

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brother or my sister to really get in trouble. Or

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maybe it's not as bad as I think it is.

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Speaker 2: And that was as a result of we haven't said

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this yet. Your then fiance was a corrections officer. Correct

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So how's that work? Does the officer responding to a domestic?

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What happens?

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Speaker 4: Then?

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Speaker 2: Does the cop flash their badge and that's the end

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of it. How's it work?

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Speaker 4: Yeah?

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Speaker 5: Pretty much exactly just like that black eye. You can

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see the visual on me. So it's so right there.

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That's so you see the abuse, right, It's not like

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I'm saying it. You physically can see it. This person

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comes in and say listen, I work for the Department

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of Corrections, and then the cop is okay, you guys

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do work it out and they leave.

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Speaker 2: That's it. There's no the cops.

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Speaker 5: I called the cops twice, and the first time it

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was working out, and the second time he had a

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conversation with them, and they never even said anything to me.

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Speaker 3: That is reprehensible. I am so sorry that you underwent that.

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I cannot even imagine. I love this idea that you

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are trying to give a voice to the people who

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have not had a chance to tell their own stories,

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because surely you're not the only person that this has

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happened to who is with a partner who's in law

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enforcement and the abuse just gets overlooked. Did you have

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a specific audience in mind when you were writing the

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book or is it just something that you feel everybody

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can benefit from hearing about your abuse and your overcoming

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of it.

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Speaker 4: I didn't have an audience.

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Speaker 5: I wanted to be able to share a story because

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I said to myself, if this is happening to me,

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it's happening to other people. And if it's not happening

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to you, it might be happening to someone that.

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Speaker 4: You might know.

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Speaker 2: You're listening to Mind over Murder. We'll be right back

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after this word from our sponsors, We're back here at

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mindover Murder.

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Speaker 3: The book is done in two parts. The first obviously

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is about the abuse and then near murder. The second

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part is about your career with the NYPD. Was there

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one part that was more challenging to write than the other?

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Speaker 5: Definitely. The beginning my childhood was very difficult. The abuse

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with my ex fiance was difficult. And it was some

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parts even within writing about the NYPD, because I have

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my prolls and my cons with the NYPD, so it

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would be and I wasn't able to get everything out,

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so I got I was able to put in what

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I thought would be important for people to want to

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read and hear about.

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Speaker 3: We obviously don't want to spoil the book. We want

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people to buy it, so we're not going to spoil

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too terribly much here. There is definitely a miraculous la

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element to your recovery that just found absolutely amazing. At

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one point, after you were shot by your ex fiance,

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you were initially told you were going to be paralyzed

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from the waist down and you recovered to what do

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you attribute that? That is amazing?

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Speaker 4: God, Almighty.

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Speaker 5: That's the only thing that could have allowed me to

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be having this conversation with you. It has to be God.

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It has to be I take no credit for anything.

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Speaker 3: It's definitely a through line in your book, this idea

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of God never giving you more than you can handle,

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and that is one of the things that I really

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liked the most. Is a nice underlying message. English teacher

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always looking for themes, but I love that through line

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in the book that you're a strong, capable woman, but

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God is there too. I found that very hopeful and

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very helpful, so I'm glad that you included that in there.

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Thank you for that.

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Speaker 4: Thank you.

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Speaker 2: One of the things that you mentioned in the intro

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to thek is that law enforcement officers actually and sadly

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are often involved in domestic abuse cases like yours. What

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do you make of that?

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Speaker 5: I think domestic vialance, it's just not It's a crisis

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and it affects everyone. It's not a race thing, it's

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not a gender thing, it's not a religion thing. It's

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a crisis that affects everybody.

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Speaker 2: And do you think this high stress of law enforcement

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jobs and the fact that we ask a tremendous amount

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of our law enforcement officers, do you think that creates

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additional strain?

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Speaker 5: Definitely. I think that when it comes to law enforcement,

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people think that law enforcement that they're human beings, just

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like people that do not wear a uniform. They have

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real life issues like everyone else. They have stress like

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everyone else. You can get a boss that just doesn't

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like you, or a boss that just you just can't

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work together.

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Speaker 4: You may have a partner that you can now work with.

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Speaker 5: It's a lot that comes with it behind the scenes,

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and people don't realize the amount of stress that police

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officers are under. You have to be a police officer,

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and then you have to also be a family person,

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even a mom, being a dad, and a husband being

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a wife, whatever that looks like for you. So it's

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like you're doing two You're doing two lives, and people

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expect for you to still be able to hold up.

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And then you can't really go and get certain type

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of help because you're afraid that you're gonna have a

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sort of stigma on you, so you don't want to

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say anything that.

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Speaker 4: Will get you in trouble with the job. So now

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you got this amount of stress.

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Speaker 5: On you, and so now I take it out on

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who's the closest person to me.

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Speaker 2: Ah, Yes, I get it.

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Speaker 3: Because you've been on both sides of this, because you

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have been a victim of abuse and violence, and because

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you have responded to abuse and violence as a police officer.

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Help our listeners understand what are the most helpful things

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that someone in law enforcement who is working a domestic

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violence call can do to support victims.

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Speaker 5: Empathy, that's the number one thing that's it haveen empathy

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and being able to just allow the person to have

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a voice and to be seen at that moment, at

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one of the darkest moments of their life. That's what

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I think.

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Speaker 3: I agree one hundred percent. What are the things that

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you feel are most commonly misunderstood about domestic violence and

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intimate partner violence? Again, because you've been on both sides

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of the badge, you've experienced it, and you've responded to it.

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What are the things that people who have never been

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in this situation don't tend to understand about being in

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the situation.

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Speaker 5: It ain't that easy to get out. It's easy to

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get in, but it ain't that easy to get out.

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You can maybe not get out because of children, because

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of finance's low self esteem, brokenness, fear, It's so many

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different elements to it. I advise anyone that's in it

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have an exit plan. Don't just get out because it's

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very dangerous that way, and never tell the ABUSA that

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you're going to leave. Always have an exit plan and

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find somebody that you can be able to trust and

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tell to help you to get out of the situation.

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Speaker 2: What are the kind of resources then that are needed

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to help survivors of abuse create that escape plan. Is

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that family, community, places of worship. What do you think

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the best plan is for someone who's struggling with domestic abuse.

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Speaker 5: I think the best plan would be one first, just

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believing in yourself that you have the will to get out.

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Speaker 4: That's the first thing.

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Speaker 5: You have to have a made up Your mind has

403
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to be transformed to the will. And then community, then policing,

404
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showing up, having empathy shown up, and allowing the person,

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like I said prior, to have a voice so they

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can feel comfortable telling we need more safe houses and

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we also most importantly, it's about getting healed from the

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inside to the outside. And what I mean and what

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that looks like is people are broken that are in

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these relationships. So if they get healed mentally, emotionally, physically,

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being made whole, nothing missing, nothing damaged. That's how one

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can be made whole. So you won't even get into

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these relationships because if you see it from the beginning

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and you see the red flags, you'll go and exit

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early on, opposed to staying.

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Speaker 4: You only stay in these.

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Speaker 5: Relationships because of the brokenness in you, because of the

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self esteem that you're lacking within yourself, and that a

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lot of times it comes from coming from an abusive

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home or coming from seeing someone being abused, and you

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think and think that it's okay, And a lot of

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times you in abusive relationship and you don't even realize

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you in a domestic violence relationship, because domestic violence is

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not just physical, it's emotional and it's mental.

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Speaker 4: Yeah.

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Speaker 3: Absolutely. My next question was going to be one are

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the ways that someone who's left an abusive relationship can

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go about recovering and establishing healthy relationships? But you answered

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part of that just now by saying that it helps

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to become whole again. It sounds like therapy and healing

431
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and rebuilding yourself is the first step in not repeating

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that cycle. Is that about writer? Is there more that

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you think needs to be done for somebody who has

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left and now wants to have a healthier, better relationship.

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Speaker 5: And you have to believe that it's something greater than

436
00:23:59,759 --> 00:24:03,519
you and a meaning in faith, it's something bigger than you.

437
00:24:03,839 --> 00:24:07,880
But everything starts for yourself. Everything starts for yourself.

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Speaker 2: Switching gears for a minute. As a former New Yorker

439
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and someone who has a soft spot for Bill Deblasio,

440
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what was it like being on his security this hel

441
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I believe you said for six years? It is? What

442
00:24:23,000 --> 00:24:25,599
was that like? Was it? It has to be challenging

443
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because it's a big city and mayors move around and

444
00:24:29,279 --> 00:24:31,839
they have to address a lot of concerns. Did you

445
00:24:32,000 --> 00:24:35,480
enjoy that part? That's a third of your law enforcement career.

446
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Speaker 5: I was grateful for the opportunity because there were not

447
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people that looked like me in the prior details for

448
00:24:42,599 --> 00:24:45,599
other mayors. So I was grateful for the opportunity. As

449
00:24:45,759 --> 00:24:48,440
if people would read in the book, it's in the book.

450
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I share a lot of different moments in things that

451
00:24:52,000 --> 00:24:56,200
had transpired. His wife actually kicked me off of detail,

452
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and so I talk about that in the book. But

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for the most part, I did my job. I was

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professional and I did what was needed to be done with.

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Speaker 2: The mayor's wife want you off the security detail? Here

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you are, if I'm not mistaken, she's a woman of color.

457
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You're a woman of color. I'm not saying that means

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that you automatically would be best these Why would she

459
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want you off the security detail? And as you said,

460
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for a long time, the security detail kind of looked

461
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the same A bunch of white guys. And now we've

462
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got something that I think at least more accurately reflect

463
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the people of New York City, that is having a

464
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woman of color on a security detail. What was the problem?

465
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Speaker 5: I don't know what the problem was. I really don't

466
00:25:41,359 --> 00:25:44,319
know what the problem was. I speak about my thoughts

467
00:25:44,519 --> 00:25:48,240
about it in the book, but I don't have an ansense.

468
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Speaker 2: So you get moved on, but you don't get any

469
00:25:51,359 --> 00:25:54,559
kind of explanation. It just you've been reassigned.

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Speaker 4: Pretty much. It didn't make sense. It just did not

471
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make sense.

472
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Speaker 5: And I believe that if you if someone does something wrong,

473
00:26:02,160 --> 00:26:05,119
I always believe that tell them what they did wrong.

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Speaker 4: So they can correct it.

475
00:26:06,519 --> 00:26:08,359
Speaker 2: Oh sure, yeah, would they know what.

476
00:26:08,400 --> 00:26:10,920
Speaker 5: To correct if you don't tell. But I got reassigned

477
00:26:10,960 --> 00:26:12,880
and that kind of worked out a little bit better.

478
00:26:13,119 --> 00:26:16,359
So what people may look at as bad it turns

479
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into good.

480
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Speaker 3: Trina. There are a couple of other three lines in

481
00:26:20,559 --> 00:26:23,079
the book. Like I said, teacher always looking for themes,

482
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and so there are a couple of other three lines

483
00:26:26,759 --> 00:26:28,119
that I saw in the book that I wanted to

484
00:26:28,119 --> 00:26:30,440
get you to speak to here while we have you.

485
00:26:31,200 --> 00:26:34,839
There are definitely things that I noticed about substance abuse,

486
00:26:35,200 --> 00:26:39,119
generational trauma, and then breaking the cycle of both of

487
00:26:39,160 --> 00:26:43,279
those things. Can you speak to the role that substance

488
00:26:43,319 --> 00:26:48,079
abuse and generational trauma play in continuing a cycle of

489
00:26:48,119 --> 00:26:49,960
domestic violence.

490
00:26:50,200 --> 00:26:54,240
Speaker 5: The transgenerational trauma. It's what you have seen, what you

491
00:26:54,359 --> 00:26:59,319
have experienced, and so it trickles down. So if you've

492
00:26:59,319 --> 00:27:02,759
seen a substance abuse, you think that it's okay. If

493
00:27:02,759 --> 00:27:06,440
you're seeing domestic balance, you think that's okay. If you

494
00:27:06,880 --> 00:27:10,240
are seeing child abuse, sexual you think all of this

495
00:27:10,240 --> 00:27:13,480
stuff is okay, and you normalize it because nobody tells

496
00:27:13,519 --> 00:27:17,440
you that it's wrong until you have this aha moment

497
00:27:18,000 --> 00:27:20,000
and then you say, you know what, I need to

498
00:27:20,240 --> 00:27:24,319
correct this, This needs to change, and where does it stop?

499
00:27:24,640 --> 00:27:27,240
Speaker 4: So I made the decision to stop.

500
00:27:27,720 --> 00:27:30,799
Speaker 3: So was part of your work in the community affairs

501
00:27:31,039 --> 00:27:34,839
trying to educate about why it's important to break the

502
00:27:34,920 --> 00:27:37,240
cycle in all senses of the word.

503
00:27:38,039 --> 00:27:43,000
Speaker 5: Absolutely, absolutely, definitely, Even when I responded, my experience is

504
00:27:43,079 --> 00:27:46,559
being a police officer, I would have conversations with people

505
00:27:46,920 --> 00:27:50,519
because a lot of times people don't even realize the

506
00:27:50,559 --> 00:27:54,519
condition that they're in. They've never been exposed. And if

507
00:27:54,519 --> 00:27:57,119
you don't have exposure how would you know. There's not

508
00:27:57,160 --> 00:27:58,799
a book to teach you how to be a parent.

509
00:27:59,240 --> 00:28:00,720
There's not a book to teach you how to be

510
00:28:00,759 --> 00:28:03,240
a husband or a wife. Right, there's not a book

511
00:28:03,240 --> 00:28:05,039
to teach you how to be a daughter or a son.

512
00:28:05,240 --> 00:28:08,160
There's no books for that, right, there's no school for that.

513
00:28:08,559 --> 00:28:10,759
A lot of things we learned is learned behavior.

514
00:28:11,359 --> 00:28:14,880
Speaker 2: I remember being shocked years ago when my then wife

515
00:28:14,920 --> 00:28:17,519
and I had a son together. He came with no

516
00:28:17,680 --> 00:28:22,720
owner's manual. No, it really is pretty shocking, actually, because

517
00:28:22,839 --> 00:28:26,880
it's probably the most important role you're ever going to perform,

518
00:28:27,279 --> 00:28:29,880
and there really isn't much to prepare you for it

519
00:28:29,960 --> 00:28:31,519
other than you're having a baby.

520
00:28:31,799 --> 00:28:34,519
Speaker 5: That's it, and you have to just do the best

521
00:28:34,559 --> 00:28:37,200
that you can. But what tools that you have at

522
00:28:37,200 --> 00:28:38,599
that particular moment.

523
00:28:38,720 --> 00:28:42,359
Speaker 3: Pittrina, What are some ways that our listeners can support

524
00:28:42,759 --> 00:28:45,559
both of your organizations young Ladies of our future and

525
00:28:45,599 --> 00:28:49,200
can't be silenced because these are obviously very worthy causes

526
00:28:49,200 --> 00:28:51,279
and we would love to help and we would love

527
00:28:51,319 --> 00:28:53,400
for our listeners to be able to help. So what

528
00:28:53,440 --> 00:28:55,519
can we do to support your organizations?

529
00:28:56,079 --> 00:29:01,240
Speaker 5: Tell people about them, book me for speaking engagement, Donate

530
00:29:01,279 --> 00:29:04,799
to the organization because it's funding that allows me to

531
00:29:04,839 --> 00:29:05,799
get things done.

532
00:29:06,119 --> 00:29:07,119
Speaker 4: Pretty much. That's it.

533
00:29:07,599 --> 00:29:10,759
Speaker 3: And where can our listeners find your book? It does

534
00:29:10,799 --> 00:29:13,559
come out tomorrow, yes, so where can our listeners find

535
00:29:13,599 --> 00:29:14,400
your book.

536
00:29:14,519 --> 00:29:18,720
Speaker 4: On Amazon in all stores that sell books.

537
00:29:19,559 --> 00:29:23,240
Speaker 3: The book is and then Came the Blues, My Story

538
00:29:23,240 --> 00:29:28,119
of Survival on both Sides of the Badge by Katrina Brownlee. Katrina,

539
00:29:28,279 --> 00:29:30,880
thank you so much for joining us. We really appreciate

540
00:29:30,880 --> 00:29:31,759
you taking the time.

541
00:29:32,359 --> 00:29:35,480
Speaker 4: Thank you, thank you for having me. It's been a pleasure.

542
00:29:36,200 --> 00:29:40,599
Speaker 2: We'll include links in our show notes to your websites

543
00:29:40,839 --> 00:29:44,119
and a link to where you can buy the book.

544
00:29:44,400 --> 00:29:47,559
And then Came the Blues. We really appreciate your time today.

545
00:29:47,960 --> 00:29:49,839
Speaker 4: Thank you, Thank you so much, and thank you for

546
00:29:49,920 --> 00:29:50,400
having me.

547
00:29:50,920 --> 00:29:52,880
Speaker 3: That is going to do it for this episode of

548
00:29:52,920 --> 00:29:56,680
mind Ever Murder. Thank you so much for listening. We'll

549
00:29:56,680 --> 00:29:57,680
see you next time.

550
00:30:07,000 --> 00:30:10,519
Speaker 1: Mind Over Murder is a production of Absolute Zero and

551
00:30:10,640 --> 00:30:12,039
Another Dog Productions.

552
00:30:12,640 --> 00:30:15,960
Speaker 2: Our executive producers are Bill Thomas and Kristin Dilley.

553
00:30:16,279 --> 00:30:18,720
Speaker 1: Our logo art is by Pamela Arnois.

554
00:30:19,359 --> 00:30:21,400
Speaker 2: Our theme music is by Kevin McCloud.

555
00:30:21,960 --> 00:30:25,880
Speaker 1: Mind Over Murder is distributed in partnership with Coral space Media.

556
00:30:26,640 --> 00:30:29,799
Speaker 2: You can follow us on Facebook, Twitter, or Instagram.

557
00:30:30,000 --> 00:30:32,599
Speaker 1: You can also follow our page on the Colonial Parkway

558
00:30:32,680 --> 00:30:34,559
murders on Facebook.

559
00:30:34,279 --> 00:30:37,279
Speaker 2: And finally, you can follow Bill Thomas on Twitter at

560
00:30:37,319 --> 00:30:38,960
Bill Thomas. Five six.

561
00:30:39,440 --> 00:31:15,839
Speaker 1: Thank you for listening to Mind Over Murder