Speaker 1: NBA Finals Game six tomorrow in Indianapolis. The LA Lakers
Speaker 1: have been sold for a cool ten billion dollars. But
Speaker 1: Porters is in his bag today because as much as
Speaker 1: I stay away from social media prior to the show,
Speaker 1: I'll check it and our next guest has been aggregated,
Speaker 1: as we deal with in this business quite a bit,
Speaker 1: as every fifth tweet was a jazz trade rumor attributed
Speaker 1: to the great Andy Larson from the Salt Lake Tribune, Andy,
Speaker 1: why are you all over my timeline today?
Speaker 2: You know, you say some things I was on the
Speaker 2: Lockdown Jazz podcast yesterday or I guess it got released today,
Speaker 2: and then one Twitter user, you know, tweets what I
Speaker 2: said and said, but says it in kind of the
Speaker 2: Andy Larson is reporting x way. And then you know,
Speaker 2: the fans of the teams involved gets involved in the Lakers,
Speaker 2: Sixers and MAVs have pretty big fan bases and anyway, Yeah,
Speaker 2: you just kind of blow up. And then you get
Speaker 2: on NBA Central, you get the likes of Everton's Side
Speaker 2: and Legion Hoops and all those different weird aggregate aggregation
Speaker 2: accounts come together, and then hearing from fans, I mean
Speaker 2: it's probably twenty notifications a minute right now on my phone.
Speaker 2: It is crazy.
Speaker 1: Okay, well, fair enough. I was a little bit confused.
Speaker 1: I was glad we could get you today though, to
Speaker 1: talk about this. So let's let's just kind of go
Speaker 1: down the list and I'll give you the space to
Speaker 1: kind of unpack some.
Speaker 3: Of this stuff. And let's start with and you know
Speaker 3: what's interesting.
Speaker 1: I don't know if you've heard this, even though I
Speaker 1: do know that you listen to this show for four
Speaker 1: hours every day and never miss a minute. About a
Speaker 1: month and a half ago, maybe two months ago, I
Speaker 1: don't know if he was reporting well, actually, let me
Speaker 1: clean that up. I know that he was not reporting this.
Speaker 1: But Tim McMahon said he has heard that Colin Sexton
Speaker 1: could be an option for the MAVs to look at,
Speaker 1: well Kyrie gets healthy. So let's start with that potential
Speaker 1: that you talked about, and we're aggregated about Colin Sexton
Speaker 1: to the Dallas Mavericks.
Speaker 2: Go ahead, Yeah, you know, like, I think it's something
Speaker 2: that I've heard from kind of both sides of the
Speaker 2: table there that it is kind of a reasonable landing
Speaker 2: spot for Colin Sexton because right like he's an expiring contract.
Speaker 2: He's a very good player. Uh and because Carry Irving
Speaker 2: is going to miss the majority, if not the totality
Speaker 2: of the next season with the with the major injuries
Speaker 2: suffed last year. Right, Like, so I think it just
Speaker 2: does make sense as the Dallas Mavericks try to stay
Speaker 2: you know it, semi competitive. I don't think they're trying
Speaker 2: to like think out next year to that that Collin
Speaker 2: Sexton would make some sense. Their salary picture is interesting
Speaker 2: in that, like the matching salaries in a deal, it's
Speaker 2: hard to find which players would make sense from the
Speaker 2: Jazz to take on, you know, like, so the Jazz
Speaker 2: could take on Caleb Martin, But I don't know that
Speaker 2: that is makes a ton of sense from a utap
Speaker 2: point of view, Keavin that he has three years on
Speaker 2: the deal and then even that's still not enough. You
Speaker 2: need to find one other contract to make that work. So,
Speaker 2: you know, I think it's a I think it's a possibility.
Speaker 2: I think maybe more likely in kind of a three
Speaker 2: team scenario or like, you know, but you know, I
Speaker 2: do think like the fit makes sense, and it's something
Speaker 2: that's like seen as a fit in multiple conversations I've.
Speaker 1: Had, all Right, this is also a situation that isn't
Speaker 1: necessarily new, and Dave mcminnimon on this show has talked
Speaker 1: about how the Lakers, well, everybody knows the Lakers need
Speaker 1: a big Okay, if you watch basketball, you understand the
Speaker 1: Lakers badly need it big. And even last year, prior
Speaker 1: to the trade deadline, there were some rumors about the
Speaker 1: Jazz and Lakers discussing the framework of a deal that
Speaker 1: would land Walker Kestler in Los Angeles.
Speaker 3: So let's move over to that one.
Speaker 1: What's your understanding of those conversations, if they're taking place,
Speaker 1: and if this is a possibility.
Speaker 2: Yeah, those conversations are real, And I mean, like, the
Speaker 2: Lakers have seen Walker Kessler as like a very good
Speaker 2: fit for them at center for a long time, and
Speaker 2: it's just kind of like, hey, what are you going
Speaker 2: to give, right Like, do you have the assets that
Speaker 2: make sense with the Jazz's rebuilding timeline? Given how much
Speaker 2: the Jazz reasonably like Walker Kessler? Right Like, they I
Speaker 2: think they like Walker Kessler quite a bit. But you know,
Speaker 2: to this point, they've even you know, the picks they
Speaker 2: would trade, let's be honest, or probably now with the
Speaker 2: Luka Dantic trade and everything else like probably going to
Speaker 2: be at the bottom of the first round, and so
Speaker 2: you know, are you willing to move on from your
Speaker 2: most interesting young piece for a couple of picks at
Speaker 2: the bottom of the first round. I don't know that
Speaker 2: the Jazz are in fact that. I suspect if they
Speaker 2: were willing to do that, they would have made the
Speaker 2: deal at some point already. You know, it is salt
Speaker 2: and connecting. That deal I think is relevant is Rehashimura,
Speaker 2: and that deal is relevant. I don't know specifically, like
Speaker 2: what the actual offer is, but I do know that
Speaker 2: there have been multiple conversations about that, or multiple I
Speaker 2: guess the Lakers have reached out to the Jazz multiple
Speaker 2: times thinking that Walker Kessler is that guy for them.
Speaker 2: I just don't know that the Jazz if they have
Speaker 2: compiled I mean, obviously they have not yet compiled an
Speaker 2: offer that the Jazz have said yes to, And I
Speaker 2: don't know that they have been particularly close and tempting
Speaker 2: the Jazz and actually making that deal. I do tend
Speaker 2: to think like if the Jazz were to actually shop
Speaker 2: Walker Kessler around the league, they could probably get better
Speaker 2: picks back and maybe better young players back than they
Speaker 2: could then from the Lakers.
Speaker 1: All right, let's move over to the potential of a
Speaker 1: deal on Well, it doesn't have to be on draft night,
Speaker 1: but regarding the draft where Affiliated three is thought to
Speaker 1: potentially be willing to maybe move down, I don't really
Speaker 1: know much about how that would take place. But this
Speaker 1: is another one that was out there. Andy shut some
Speaker 1: light on this one.
Speaker 2: Look, they know they need to retool their roster, and
Speaker 2: you know, there are a bunch of different ways to
Speaker 2: do that. I think there is a you know, a
Speaker 2: tank path where you give up on Joelle and Bean entirely.
Speaker 2: But the Paul George contract is a part of this,
Speaker 2: and as I you know, in my view, and I
Speaker 2: think a lot of league wide observer's view a negative
Speaker 2: contract given that he just turned thirty five and put
Speaker 2: up a fourteen per last season, and you know, had
Speaker 2: a whole bunch of other bad Sixer stuff go on
Speaker 2: around him, but did not look very good last year.
Speaker 2: And this is decline time in players contracts, right in
Speaker 2: players careers. So I get why, you know, the Sixers
Speaker 2: would be interested in dumping the Paul George contract. I
Speaker 2: will say also that if they wanted to do kind
Speaker 2: of that three for five and Paul George Swap. That
Speaker 2: would mean that the Jazz have to send back matching salaries,
Speaker 2: right and given the size of that contract around fifty
Speaker 2: million dollars a year, you would have to send probably
Speaker 2: both of John Collins and Colin Section or Lowry Markinen
Speaker 2: in order to make those that deal work. And it's
Speaker 2: hard to see how that makes sense for the Jazz.
Speaker 2: You know, maybe all of a sudden, if you just
Speaker 2: Jazz don't have to give up the number five pick
Speaker 2: and have kind of have two top five picks, and
Speaker 2: then maybe it makes sense. But like, yeah, it gets
Speaker 2: you know, then I don't know that the Switchers do
Speaker 2: that deal, so you know, I from my understanding, it's
Speaker 2: not something again, it's an author that's been kind of
Speaker 2: out there. Conversations have been had, and I don't know
Speaker 2: the current status of those, but I never got the
Speaker 2: sense that it was like, you know, a piece or
Speaker 2: two away. These are big frameworks that I think there
Speaker 2: is significant disagreement on.
Speaker 1: Honestly lost track of all the aggregation, and I did
Speaker 1: not listen to Pod respectfully, but I do believe there
Speaker 1: was a John Collins situation, maybe with the Lakers, maybe
Speaker 1: with the Warriors.
Speaker 3: Does that ring a bell?
Speaker 2: I mean, I was referring more to the past on
Speaker 2: that one. I'm gonna be honest, And that's one of
Speaker 2: the dangers of aggregation, is like, hey, when you're talking
Speaker 2: about conversations that may have happened around the trade deadline
Speaker 2: or even earlier. I talked about that on the podcast,
Speaker 2: and I did not mean to say with John Collins
Speaker 2: specifically that like those have happened more recently.
Speaker 1: Okay, fair enough, but let me expand the question. Look,
Speaker 1: if they could trade them, they would they they would
Speaker 1: trade them tomorrow. And now that that contract is expiring,
Speaker 1: do you think it's more likely they'll find a suitor?
Speaker 2: Yeah, I do, you know, And I think you know,
Speaker 2: John Collins had a really good year last year, and
Speaker 2: I think that he does fit into a lot of
Speaker 2: what teams want in terms of, you know, if you
Speaker 2: have a heliocentric star or you know, your your ball
Speaker 2: handling situation figured out. I think he provides really interesting spacing,
Speaker 2: really interesting rebounding, and then I think was better on
Speaker 2: the defensive end, probably not a plus on defense last year,
Speaker 2: but was better than he was two years ago. So
Speaker 2: I do think it makes sense as a fit on
Speaker 2: court wise, I think, you know, it's always the tough
Speaker 2: part is finding a team that can take on a
Speaker 2: twenty five million dollar salary, give up a twenty five
Speaker 2: million dollar salary in return, and have that makes sense
Speaker 2: for the Jazz moving forward, rather than just letting John
Speaker 2: Collins expire, right, And I you know, I think that's
Speaker 2: easier said than done. You know, I think so the
Speaker 2: Warriors are an example. And actually I said this on
Speaker 2: the podcast, like they may have had some interest at
Speaker 2: the trade deadline to go get down Collins. They got
Speaker 2: Jimmy Butler and said, and all of a sudden, the
Speaker 2: trade mask doesn't make sense at all, right, Like it's
Speaker 2: just hard to figure out how the contracts would work there.
Speaker 2: So yeah, you know, I think it is. You know,
Speaker 2: I don't think that there's no interest in the league
Speaker 2: with John Collins, and I think again, he's a good player.
Speaker 2: I don't know the status of kind of how those
Speaker 2: conversations have gone in the last few weeks. Even I
Speaker 2: was just referring to stuff that had happened months ago.
Speaker 3: All right, fair enough, let's move let's move over here. Andy.
Speaker 1: I think that's all the aggregation that was across my timeline.
Speaker 1: But you know, Brian Wyndhorse, I don't know. A few
Speaker 1: days ago on Sports Center dropped the whole like he's
Speaker 1: been told the Jazz are going to try to accelerate
Speaker 1: the rebuild. That's not what he said. I'm paraphrasing, but
Speaker 1: you understand the spirit of the whole thing. And then
Speaker 1: ever since that conversation took place, I've had NBA guests
Speaker 1: on the show, Haberstrow Old Bye, we had Smittyan studio,
Speaker 1: and we've just debated what I perceived to be two
Speaker 1: different paths for the Jazz. And Brian Winhors is a
Speaker 1: very smart, plugged in, very good NBA reporter who certainly
Speaker 1: deserves respect. So I'm not saying that he's lying. I
Speaker 1: don't know what that avenue looks like. I don't like
Speaker 1: Boston apparently is willing to trade everybody outside of Tatum
Speaker 1: who's going to be hurt all next year. And if
Speaker 1: you add Drew Holliday and Kristaps Porzingis to this roster
Speaker 1: for free, I mean, playing forty five would like. I
Speaker 1: don't know what that looks like. But again, Windhorst is
Speaker 1: a respectable guy who deserves respect. So there's that path
Speaker 1: that includes adding to the group a veteran or two
Speaker 1: that can exibedite the growth, add to winning right away.
Speaker 1: And then the other avenue, And Tommy brought this up,
Speaker 1: and you've talked about it before. You and I have
Speaker 1: discussed it, and this is not reporting anything. This is
Speaker 1: discussing and pontificating on possibilities where you engage with san
Speaker 1: Antonio at two and you say something like all right,
Speaker 1: marketing in five for Harrison Barnes and Kelden Johnson at
Speaker 1: two and obviously Harrison Barnes is not in your future plans.
Speaker 1: Calden might bes twenty five, He's fine, and then at
Speaker 1: two you grab Dylan Harper. Then you can continue this
Speaker 1: long game, slow play brick by brick by brick.
Speaker 3: That makes more.
Speaker 1: Sense to me because you and I have discussed and
Speaker 1: will continue to discuss all year. That eighth pick, the
Speaker 1: top eight protected pick that will go to OKC if
Speaker 1: you're not in the top eight. So those are the
Speaker 1: two avenues, Andy, what do you think happens?
Speaker 2: Yeah, look, I think you made it out well. I
Speaker 2: think I don't know whether Brandon Windhorst, you know, was
Speaker 2: referencing aus Mange's comments that the Jazz didn't want to
Speaker 2: tank next year as like the sole basis of that,
Speaker 2: or also something that he was hearing around the league.
Speaker 2: You know, I think like two, you know, I completely
Speaker 2: agree with you win horses like an awesome NBA reporter
Speaker 2: and those much more than I do in many many cases.
Speaker 2: But also he got agrig on that a little bit, right,
Speaker 2: and I know what that's like. I think it could
Speaker 2: be either way, and winhorse obviously then gets the extra
Speaker 2: bonus points in Utah for the what's going on in
Speaker 2: Utah meme? Right like where he did, you know, essentially
Speaker 2: predicts that there were gonna be bigger moves after the
Speaker 2: Royce O'Neil trade that ended up meaning Donovan and Rudy
Speaker 2: and Quinn all left Utah. I could see it going
Speaker 2: either way, and I do think, you know, there is
Speaker 2: some interest in the idea of not being bad anymore
Speaker 2: and the idea of hey, yeah, let's go get the
Speaker 2: Drew Holliday and Chris hops for Zingis and start building
Speaker 2: a team that's trying to win and then maybe through
Speaker 2: that you make the young guys better too. Right. There's
Speaker 2: also a thought frankly that like even if you have
Speaker 2: Drew Holliday and Chris Hops for zingis it's not immediately
Speaker 2: clear that that's a top eleven team in the West, Right,
Speaker 2: That could still be a bottom four team in the West,
Speaker 2: which would theoretically allow you to keep a top eight
Speaker 2: pick next year, right, and so, and then you're kind
Speaker 2: of trying to thread the needle that way and build
Speaker 2: without worrying about that too much. I think ultimately, like
Speaker 2: in the end, what often Aine said at the press conference,
Speaker 2: I think is interesting. It's just like, hey, you're just
Speaker 2: trying to make one good deal after another. You're trying
Speaker 2: to make one good decision after another, and I know
Speaker 2: that boring, and you should have kind of a plan.
Speaker 2: But that has also been kind of the Danny Ainge
Speaker 2: and Justin Zack point of view too, is like, hey,
Speaker 2: when they have traded guys, it's it has been for
Speaker 2: positive value. You know, in general, the league has thought
Speaker 2: they've done well with their business, with maybe one or
Speaker 2: two exceptions, and so I don't think that they will
Speaker 2: all of a sudden issue that in order to kind
Speaker 2: of chase one plan or another if the value they're
Speaker 2: getting in these deals doesn't make sense.
Speaker 1: All right, fair enough, we are one week away from
Speaker 1: the NBA Draft, and before we get into maybe the
Speaker 1: individual prospects and the noise around Ast Bailey and such,
Speaker 1: just what are you hearing about the potential for activity
Speaker 1: or are you hearing that it's more likely that the
Speaker 1: Jazz stay at five and twenty one?
Speaker 3: What are you hearing as of now?
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean I think they're interested in moving in
Speaker 2: all kind of different possibilities there kind of the vibe.
Speaker 2: I believe it was Bestiny who reported this last week
Speaker 2: that like it's kind of quiet in the trademarket right now,
Speaker 2: is true? I think like essentially you would expect more
Speaker 2: maybe conversation a week out, but there are still obvious
Speaker 2: kind of deals that make sense for a lot of
Speaker 2: different teams. There are a lot of people waiting to
Speaker 2: see what happens with Gianness and Kevin Durant. Will I
Speaker 2: will say that as far as like specific things of
Speaker 2: the Jazz do kind of like the context of the
Speaker 2: Philadelphia thing we mentioned earlier, Like that was my answer
Speaker 2: to that question yesterday, right Like I have heard that possibility.
Speaker 2: I don't know of any kind of other specific possible
Speaker 2: abilities of the Jazz kind of moving up and down
Speaker 2: are around with the number five and number twenty one picks.
Speaker 1: Vesini and Givoni and some others too are reporting that
Speaker 1: there is some real noise around the league regarding Ace Bailey,
Speaker 1: who once upon a time was thought to be a
Speaker 1: top three and maybe even flirting with the.
Speaker 3: Top two prospect.
Speaker 1: Now it feels like consensus that it's Cooper one and
Speaker 1: Dylan two. But for a long time, Anie Mock I
Speaker 1: saw had Ace at three, and then you started to
Speaker 1: hear some things. Of course, there was the combine measurement
Speaker 1: that people latched on too. It's like, wow, could he
Speaker 1: fall the five to the jazz? And now you're seeing
Speaker 1: things like is he still going to stay in the
Speaker 1: top ten. I don't have any frame of reference for it.
Speaker 1: What's you're understanding about what NBA teams could potentially be
Speaker 1: concerned about concerning Ace Bailey?
Speaker 2: Yeah? I mean, look, I've heard just much more negative
Speaker 2: stuff than I have positive stuff. I do think, you know,
Speaker 2: some team in the top ten I think just fits
Speaker 2: the app r like there is significant talent there, but
Speaker 2: it's much more interesting at like six ten than it
Speaker 2: is at six seven, which is where he ended up
Speaker 2: measuring out. And you know, so you worry about the
Speaker 2: top shots that he made in college. Do they continue
Speaker 2: to go in against longer defenders in the NBA. Then
Speaker 2: you worry about kind of all the off you worry
Speaker 2: about the development path. You know, like he's been pretty
Speaker 2: clear in interviews like he sees his path as getting stronger,
Speaker 2: which then he can use to bump guys off his
Speaker 2: body and create more space in the midrange for more
Speaker 2: mid range shots. And you know, a lot of teams
Speaker 2: don't want to go that direction. I think there's some
Speaker 2: concern about, like, hey, is this guy going to be
Speaker 2: part of a five man offense or just try to
Speaker 2: get as many points as he can? And then you know,
Speaker 2: I think there's some on and off defensive effort questions
Speaker 2: where we see two teams in the NBA Finals that
Speaker 2: are absolutely killing themselves on every defensive possession, right, Like,
Speaker 2: so kind of the the the kind of mid range
Speaker 2: comp I think Frase Bailey has been Michael Porter junior
Speaker 2: for a long time. But if you're going shorter Michael
Speaker 2: Porter junior, how much value does that really happen? Do
Speaker 2: you really want to draft that guy over I think
Speaker 2: some other compelling prospects in the top six or seven.
Speaker 2: I think that's a reasonable question to ask. And then
Speaker 2: you know, I done some draft modeling on my own
Speaker 2: and looked at other draft models as well. Like, in general,
Speaker 2: Ace does not project as necessarily like in that same
Speaker 2: class as Cooper and Dylan because like he because of
Speaker 2: some of those issues and because Rutgers did struggle and
Speaker 2: you know, like they struggled even more when he was
Speaker 2: off the floor, to be fair, but like, it's not
Speaker 2: the typical profile of the top prospect. So yeah, like
Speaker 2: I get the concerns. And for me, it's at the
Speaker 2: point where if I'm trying to create a franchise, not
Speaker 2: just get the most talent available. Yeah, I am looking
Speaker 2: at at you know, Trey Johnson or VG Edgecombe or
Speaker 2: or Continent Pole right like, and really thinking about who
Speaker 2: is going to help me win a championship, Who's likely
Speaker 2: to actually push me to the next round in the playoffs?
Speaker 2: It might be those other guys more And so you know, again,
Speaker 2: I think at some point, whether it's at Washington at
Speaker 2: number six for Brooklyn or you know, I think he
Speaker 2: is drafted in the top ten, I am not that
Speaker 2: worried about him falling out of the top ten, but
Speaker 2: I do understand the teams that have real concerns and
Speaker 2: want to go in another direction with prospects I think
Speaker 2: are also incredibly talented.
Speaker 1: As I ask you every week, and this will be
Speaker 1: the final time, Well, no, we actually might get you
Speaker 1: on Draft Day. And for our listeners, Andy is doing
Speaker 1: the show on Friday of next week after the two
Speaker 1: rounds of the draft, so that'll be some good stuff
Speaker 1: to stay tuned for that. So I'll probably ask you
Speaker 1: one more time, but for this week, the Andy Larson
Speaker 1: take on the most realistic best possible scenario at five
Speaker 1: for the Jazz is who and why I.
Speaker 2: Think best possible scenarios vj It's come false and I
Speaker 2: like VJs come as a prospect a lot. I've been
Speaker 2: doing some draft modeling over the last couple of weeks
Speaker 2: and it considers the model considers vjgs come to be
Speaker 2: a top here prospect at a higher level than kind
Speaker 2: of the other guys in that range. So that's because
Speaker 2: of the block, that's because of the skills, that's because
Speaker 2: of the athleticism measurements, that's because of the kind of
Speaker 2: semi efficiency and kind of small usage kind of projects. Well,
Speaker 2: he's got a good assistant turnover rate and in general
Speaker 2: when I talked to VJ at the combine, like was
Speaker 2: a kid with his head screwed on straight. Kind of
Speaker 2: reminded me of Donovan Mitchell in his draft workouts, where
Speaker 2: he's like, you know, look, I think I can impact
Speaker 2: the floor on the defensive end first and then expand
Speaker 2: my game to be offensive. And you know that's not
Speaker 2: what ended up happening with Donovan Mitchell. But kind of
Speaker 2: having the right mentality about the game and about his
Speaker 2: own development and about his own work ethic really impressed me.
Speaker 2: Then it really impressed me about VJ.
Speaker 3: Edge.
Speaker 2: Come, I don't think it's realistic that he falls to
Speaker 2: number five. So in that case, I'm waffling still between
Speaker 2: Trey Johnson and kongk Nipple, and I think Trey Johnson
Speaker 2: is more likely from a Jazz point of view, I
Speaker 2: may go the direction with Kank Nipple just because I
Speaker 2: like the defense so much more and I think it's
Speaker 2: well past time for the Jazz to start drafting defensively
Speaker 2: as well as offensively. But right now, like I don't
Speaker 2: know which of those two players the Jazz would pick.
Speaker 1: Final thing, Andy was Johnny Russell, the missing piece all along.
Speaker 2: No, you know, play the good first half and scored
Speaker 2: a goal on that's great. I think that you could
Speaker 2: only play forty five minutes with something. But that's a
Speaker 2: bad DC team that you know lost seven to one
Speaker 2: to the fire of the week before. The two nil
Speaker 2: win was good and you know it was fun cheering
Speaker 2: on ARSOL to win at home. I do not think
Speaker 2: entirely differently about RSOL now than I did maybe before
Speaker 2: that game happened.
Speaker 3: Fair enough, but thanks for the time, Thanks for hopping
Speaker 3: on with chat soon. Okay, yep, no worries.
Speaker 2: Thanks then.
Speaker 3: Andy Larson covers the jazz for the Salt Lake Tribune.