Speaker 1: Baby, you're a Gamesteratu.
Speaker 2: It takes a lot of tangle. You don't want to
Speaker 2: mess with me.
Speaker 3: Mess with me?
Speaker 4: Baby, are a gangsta touch Baby, You're a game.
Speaker 3: Statue for God warn This podcast is designed to take
Speaker 3: you outside of your comfort zone and make you question reality.
Speaker 3: Listening Discretion is a vibe. What the fellas?
Speaker 5: This ain't my first time at the rodeo.
Speaker 4: Hello, Conspiracy, Playtime and Cosmic Features. Welcome to another episode.
Speaker 4: Today we are welcoming him back. William Ramsey my second
Speaker 4: time and he was just done, so his face should
Speaker 4: be familiar and Julia has worked with him as a.
Speaker 6: Plethora of times. I think that's how I actually heard
Speaker 6: William the first time.
Speaker 4: So we're going to be covering something. William is binge
Speaker 4: just put together. I've been listening to his presentations and
Speaker 4: he says it just keeps getting better and we're going
Speaker 4: to see where this goes.
Speaker 6: Todavi with Cattri and the Rye. William, Welcome to the show.
Speaker 2: Thanks for having me. Great to be back with you.
Speaker 2: It feels like we just did our last show recently
Speaker 2: take a week ago. Yeah, So like I said, that's recent,
Speaker 2: pretty recent. Yeah, Julia and I have done shows on
Speaker 2: weird scenes, ritual abuse in cinema, murders, a cult symbolism
Speaker 2: of really nice light subjects, program killers. So we've done this.
Speaker 2: It ties in with this show. And then also we
Speaker 2: talked about the jfk assassination, which is very timely actually,
Speaker 2: so that's probably another show to do. But uh done
Speaker 2: a lot of.
Speaker 5: Jiff with you, William.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I like we're talking to you as well, working
Speaker 2: with you as well. I'm following your stuff too. You're
Speaker 2: like on a bunch of other my friend shows are
Speaker 2: cult rejects, and so you've been busy. I can tell.
Speaker 5: Thanks. Yeah, well, you know, all work and no play
Speaker 5: a psychopath. If I start reading Catcher.
Speaker 2: In the Rye, yeah, you gotta be careful. I actually
Speaker 2: made a post of funny. Well, I tried to be
Speaker 2: funny on my social media, like if I become a
Speaker 2: changed person, it's not the real me after I read
Speaker 2: this book, because it seems like people have read this
Speaker 2: book and like literally change their personalities have changed. So
Speaker 2: and that'll be kind of the theme of the presentation
Speaker 2: that I have. It's like, it's really weird and it
Speaker 2: kind of came to my attention because I was actually
Speaker 2: online with somebody else arguing, and I'm like, no, Chapman did.
Speaker 2: The book was central to Chapman's rationale and reasoning and
Speaker 2: the way his outlook was, and I did. So I
Speaker 2: did a sh show. I was doing a series. I
Speaker 2: had a fourteen part series called The d Hypno Program.
Speaker 2: So it's the ideas of hypnosis and mind control and
Speaker 2: stuff like that. So I did a show about Chapman
Speaker 2: and Catcher and the Rye and then it just developed again.
Speaker 2: I did another show for Todd would of California, and
Speaker 2: it just kind of expanded. Then I read the book
Speaker 2: and I was like in my mind, like I had
Speaker 2: read the book in high school, so you know, I
Speaker 2: didn't know Dutaly like what I know today. And so
Speaker 2: when I read it again, I'm like, Wow, there's really
Speaker 2: dark themes in here. I could see why this is
Speaker 2: a contentious book, Like it's contentious in the culture, and
Speaker 2: it's for me and my kind of mindset and the
Speaker 2: stuff I've learned. It's like, really shocking that this is
Speaker 2: put in front of impressionable team people, Like it's really dark.
Speaker 2: It has some really dark themes in it. If you
Speaker 2: guys don't know how much of you've read through it
Speaker 2: or look through it, or.
Speaker 5: You've read it right, you read the whole thing.
Speaker 6: Yeah, I need to read it again.
Speaker 4: I also read it in high school and I I
Speaker 4: remember not thinking it was that good.
Speaker 2: Me too, I don't think I enjoyed reading it. I
Speaker 2: didn't understand it. And like what they tell you, this
Speaker 2: is like a disaffected teen who's going through troubled times.
Speaker 2: And uh and then like me reading as adult, like
Speaker 2: there's nothing redeemable about this character holding call Field. They're
Speaker 2: really to me, he is a very kind of scatterbrain, schizoid,
Speaker 2: dangerous person with like this murder hat that they show
Speaker 2: on the on the symbolism of capturing the riots, Like
Speaker 2: I'm wearing a murder hat. I kill people in the murdrat.
Speaker 2: That's the look. And it has there's a repetitive phraseology
Speaker 2: that you see in these other kind of like strange
Speaker 2: people extra answer at which I show in the slides
Speaker 2: that will get into you know, oh, like there's weird
Speaker 2: repetitive I will, I will, I will. In the book,
Speaker 2: which was written in nineteen fifty one, for people who
Speaker 2: don't know, JD. Salinger ex military intelligence, he was part
Speaker 2: of something called the counter Intelligence Commission during World War Two,
Speaker 2: same unit that Kissinger very nefarious character was in, but
Speaker 2: also had involved mind control because you're talking to people
Speaker 2: to try to get to get information out of them.
Speaker 2: So these themes I think are in his personal life.
Speaker 2: And he went into a mental institution from shell shock.
Speaker 2: We would call it post traumatic stress disorder now, but
Speaker 2: he was in a mental institution. He also had like
Speaker 2: uncomfortable relationships with fourteen fifteen year old girl that she
Speaker 2: talks about it online on YouTube, and it ties into
Speaker 2: this whole relationship between Holden Caufield and his sister who's
Speaker 2: ten in the book, Phoebe, And it's almost like the
Speaker 2: whole book starts with him at this Pency Prep and
Speaker 2: he travels from Pency Prep, which is a fictitious school
Speaker 2: by the way in Pennsylvania, to Manhattan to Central Park
Speaker 2: to meet up with his sister, and he spends a
Speaker 2: lot of time with his sister, and that's kind of
Speaker 2: how it ends. And then the last chapter of the
Speaker 2: twenty six chapters, I think it's him in a mental
Speaker 2: life institution with his brother. So there are themes of this.
Speaker 2: It's not like it's not like a there's not like
Speaker 2: a bow tie at the end of a coming of
Speaker 2: age story of a young person who like gets through
Speaker 2: all of his troubles and solves them all and then
Speaker 2: everything's wine and roses. He ends up in a mental exccution.
Speaker 2: So that's what people are being exposed to. And there's
Speaker 2: very subtle things in here that I know of, Like
Speaker 2: he mentions al Pike. He mentions, like these people Albert Pike,
Speaker 2: who's the head of the Masons, is in here. He
Speaker 2: goes to the wicker Bar, which is like the wicker
Speaker 2: Man where they do human sacrifices, like this very dark stuff. So,
Speaker 2: I mean it's kind of a basic view of this book.
Speaker 2: But sixty five million books of these of this book
Speaker 2: have been sold. It's an incredible cultural event. And it
Speaker 2: happened in the timeframe of like Kinsey published Sex and
Speaker 2: the Man and forty eight and then Lolita, I think
Speaker 2: came out of fifty three or fifty five, and I
Speaker 2: think it's within that time that this post war refiguring
Speaker 2: of kind of traditional values.
Speaker 5: It's like it's like pre Laurel Canyon. Yeah, Like it's
Speaker 5: like this setup for a Laurel Canyon.
Speaker 2: So I think it's really a culture change you know,
Speaker 2: I think he was a culture change agent, and not
Speaker 2: in a good way.
Speaker 5: Right, Yeah, it sounds like it sounds like girl interrupted,
Speaker 5: but not. He ends up in like a mental institution.
Speaker 2: Right, So he ends up in like a like not
Speaker 2: in a good place. And he's like one of the
Speaker 2: things about the book that's very Salinger supposed he wrote
Speaker 2: it at thirty two. It's very sophisticated in its literary techniques,
Speaker 2: and it's kind of psychological states, and it explains a
Speaker 2: lot of things. There's a lot of like scatter brains,
Speaker 2: getzoid behavior. By by holding call Field and he holding
Speaker 2: call Field. It almost has almost every negative psychological trait imaginable.
Speaker 2: He is a pyroal maniac. He's an inceell. He says
Speaker 2: in his mind, he's a sex maniac. He also fights
Speaker 2: people without provocation. He's in the care of a psychiatrist.
Speaker 2: He breaks windows. He doesn't know why he did it.
Speaker 2: So there's like, there isn't this kind of like solution
Speaker 2: where like you have people I always have problems, but like, oh,
Speaker 2: this is how I'm solving it. He doesn't solve his problems.
Speaker 2: He never solves his problems. And I mean he takes matches,
Speaker 2: lights them and then they go down and they burn
Speaker 2: his fingers. That's what he likes to do. He's a chainsmoker.
Speaker 2: And there's almost like almost every kind of sexual like
Speaker 2: deviancy is in this book too, So you've got themes
Speaker 2: of homosexuality, pedophilia, voyeurism, prostitution.
Speaker 5: His hit what's up like incest right?
Speaker 2: Incest right? Good point. The he's been hit on by
Speaker 2: like ten or twenty of his professors, So that he
Speaker 2: goes to visit this guy Andelini, who tries to start
Speaker 2: stroking his head while he's on Andelini's couch and he
Speaker 2: gets up like this always makes me feel weird, and
Speaker 2: it's happened to be ten or twenty times. But the
Speaker 2: weird thing about Holding Callfield is he gets himself into
Speaker 2: that situation. So Andelini may be taking different in their
Speaker 2: suicide too in this movie. In this book, Andalini may
Speaker 2: be taking kind of cues from Holding Calfield that Holding
Speaker 2: Callfield doesn't understand. So this dissociation of like his consequence
Speaker 2: is a theme. And you'll see in the slides of
Speaker 2: which I show there's this whole theme of the ducks.
Speaker 2: So he goes to Central Park and he doesn't understand
Speaker 2: where the ducks go, whereas everybody by the time their
Speaker 2: ten realizes the ducks Flyesyuth for the winner. But he
Speaker 2: doesn't understand this. So you get this impression that the
Speaker 2: external world that comes into his brain isn't coming in
Speaker 2: the right way. And I do believe he's dissociated. And
Speaker 2: he also depersonalizes people. He's depersonalizing reality, and you'll see
Speaker 2: that with these other kind of like Chapman and Hinckley,
Speaker 2: there is this depersonalization. But like everybody's fake and phony, right,
Speaker 2: so he doesn't see them as people trying to get
Speaker 2: their you know, empathy. He doesn't have an empathetic sensibility
Speaker 2: at all. He just sees these people's fake and phony
Speaker 2: and everybody's fake. And so these are kind of the
Speaker 2: themes I mean. And it starts the book starts out
Speaker 2: with him at pency and he's on like he says,
Speaker 2: it's cold as a witch's teat So actually the central
Speaker 2: character holding Callfield, is sitting on kind of a witch's
Speaker 2: you know, female anatomy. And it's like, wow, so this
Speaker 2: is starting. One of the interesting things is this call
Speaker 2: I think it's intentional, like a lot of these names
Speaker 2: in this book are intentional. But a call when a
Speaker 2: baby is born, it's like gives him second sight. Like
Speaker 2: that's the kind of traditional lore is that this person
Speaker 2: with a call on their head will be kind of
Speaker 2: like a magician or a psychic or something. So holding
Speaker 2: call field and then the field relates to this whole
Speaker 2: concept of catcher in the rye and that catcher in
Speaker 2: the rye. Even the name catcher in the Rye is
Speaker 2: a kind of dissociation because Holden wants to be a
Speaker 2: catcher of these little kids. So there's a fixation on
Speaker 2: kids again, which is also weird. And he he's misinterpreting
Speaker 2: a poem by Burns, which is somebody coming through the rye.
Speaker 2: But he wants to be a catcher. But if the
Speaker 2: Burns quote if a body catch a body coming through
Speaker 2: the rye, right, so he it's he's like, wants to
Speaker 2: be this catch of this thing. So he and there's
Speaker 2: a famous quote and you'll see it kind of in
Speaker 2: the Chapman. He makes this statement in court like a
Speaker 2: direct quote of this book. But it is an interesting
Speaker 2: aspect of this guy is that he is misinterpreting everything
Speaker 2: and so I think that that's I mean, imagine like
Speaker 2: all the high school kids being exposed to this and
Speaker 2: not really understanding it. But like the other thing is
Speaker 2: that he's anti Christian. He has a very anti Christian bias.
Speaker 2: So you have this like conservative post war environment and
Speaker 2: here's a guy saying he had Judas isn't going to hell.
Speaker 2: He doesn't like the Apostles, and he's sympathetic for the
Speaker 2: lunatic in the Bible. The guy who says we are
Speaker 2: legion right if you remember your New Testament. Christ is
Speaker 2: out in the wilderness and there's a person that they
Speaker 2: can't contain and he exercises them. But that's the person
Speaker 2: that holding call Field identifies. But so it gives him
Speaker 2: a very darker aspect. And he's also a trickster, so
Speaker 2: he's almost like a black magician in a way. He
Speaker 2: says he can lie for hours and he runs into
Speaker 2: like his schoolmate's mom and just blowanes her for fun,
Speaker 2: Like he puts her into a trance. So he literally
Speaker 2: used the word trance in this In this book, I mean,
Speaker 2: it's and everybody's a pervert and a moron. It's just
Speaker 2: incredible stuff. He's fascinated by blood so there's blood in
Speaker 2: this there's and he always says, like a madman, I'm
Speaker 2: operating like a madman. I don't know how many times
Speaker 2: he repeats this, but he says, I'm like this like
Speaker 2: a madman. And this hat, this red hat is this peet.
Speaker 2: He wears a people shooting hat. I shoot people in
Speaker 2: this hat. He's violent. He's a repressed, violent person. So
Speaker 2: it just goes on and on, Like my notes are incredible,
Speaker 2: Like he just like everything's full of crooks and phonies.
Speaker 2: He's a chain smoker, sex. Many already repeated that he's loansomebody's.
Speaker 4: Depressed because you mentioned there's like almost like kick driving
Speaker 4: kind of techniques used in this book. Yeah, so it's
Speaker 4: okay if you repeat yourself, it'll just it'll be with
Speaker 4: the theme.
Speaker 2: Here's the other thing, Like he's a sadist. He like
Speaker 2: repeats like a woman's body as a violin, Like these
Speaker 2: are very dark things. He's also meets this guy Loose,
Speaker 2: So these names kind of actually apply to real people,
Speaker 2: Like Loose was the head of Time Life, very influential
Speaker 2: at that time. Now Time Life and magazines are kind
Speaker 2: of a dead I think. But before the Internet, like
Speaker 2: people got their information from Newsweek and Time. So he
Speaker 2: mentions this guy loose and loose repeats this stuff that
Speaker 2: Kinsey was trying to put in the public, that something
Speaker 2: like fifty percent of men are gay, which isn't true.
Speaker 2: But it's kind of like, oh, we're in this in
Speaker 2: this kind of I mean, I've done shows on Kinsey
Speaker 2: where his research is just a bunch of maloney. I
Speaker 2: think I've done them with Sean McCann, but like he now,
Speaker 2: which he also never allowed third parties to verify. But
Speaker 2: it's interesting Catcher and the Rye and Kinsey's work sync
Speaker 2: up together because this same guy says this whole thing like, oh,
Speaker 2: half of merry guys are gay, which isn't true. Like
Speaker 2: there's a small proportion that are bisexual or whatever, but
Speaker 2: it's not as common as these guys Allegen and Kinsey is.
Speaker 2: You know, his connection to Crowley and all this stuff
Speaker 2: is all verified, and Kenneth Anger too, of all people, do.
Speaker 5: You think like this character, this holding character is just
Speaker 5: like an extension of the author, like he's writing as
Speaker 5: him as himself.
Speaker 2: It's a really good question because Salinger did grow up wealthy.
Speaker 2: He was in New York so I think he knew
Speaker 2: the location and stuff like that. So I think that
Speaker 2: he is kind of an extension of holding Callfield's extension
Speaker 2: of Salingers to a certain extent. So I think that's
Speaker 2: a really good question. So, I mean the locales. There's
Speaker 2: all so many locales in Manhattan Central Park. The Museum
Speaker 2: of Natural History is right off of Central Park, so
Speaker 2: and it's still there today. You can go see that,
Speaker 2: I mean, and the terrain, it's incredible. So many of
Speaker 2: these guys who are like they go to Central Park,
Speaker 2: whether it's Mangione or Chapman, like the the Dakota's right
Speaker 2: off Central Park two Sore where Chapman supposedly killed Lenon
Speaker 2: in nineteen eighty. So I do think that that this
Speaker 2: is a loco, this is a known area. And the
Speaker 2: Catcher in the Rye was put out or released in
Speaker 2: fifty one, like I said earlier, but he had done
Speaker 2: five or six like smaller bits, and they were published
Speaker 2: in Vanity Fair. So there was kind of like a
Speaker 2: serialization that led up to the publication in nineteen fifty one.
Speaker 5: Did you have a question? I feel like I interrupted you.
Speaker 2: No, I mean.
Speaker 4: Earlier, I was just going to say yeah, sure, I
Speaker 4: read this book. I was probably a junior in high school.
Speaker 4: I just I kind of questioned why. And it wasn't
Speaker 4: we didn't have to read it. It wasn't assigned, but
Speaker 4: it was in the library, and the librarian said, oh, yeah,
Speaker 4: this book's been banned before, but now certain high schools
Speaker 4: make you read it. And so she got me interested,
Speaker 4: and I was just blown away by the nihilism in
Speaker 4: it and to be putting that until like kids' heads
Speaker 4: when they're in that, you know, real kind of vulnerable stage,
Speaker 4: and then you're pushing this book, which you're going to
Speaker 4: get into the stuff with some of the questions I
Speaker 4: have about like the end of the book is kind
Speaker 4: of blurry in what happened and what went on, and
Speaker 4: I think you and I probably think certain similar things
Speaker 4: happened with Holden in the end of the book. So yeah,
Speaker 4: I didn't really have a question. I would just kind
Speaker 4: of want to intergect.
Speaker 2: Well, it's mysterious. It's mysterious, and he's interpreting things. He's
Speaker 2: so happy with his Phoebe. They were gonna run away together.
Speaker 2: She brought her luggage and stuff. A ten year old
Speaker 2: girl who talks to him like an adult. So this
Speaker 2: is kind of the theme of pedophiles, like these are
Speaker 2: consenting kids. The kids consent, they're old enough to consent,
Speaker 2: which is complete nonsense, but that's like the pedophile mindset
Speaker 2: is like, they're old enough. So she's portrayed as an adult.
Speaker 2: She knows burns, she talks to him as an adult,
Speaker 2: and he's driving her crazy. He's like, oh, she drives
Speaker 2: me mad. He dances with her, he touches her inappropriately.
Speaker 2: It takes place in her bedroom, and then they go
Speaker 2: to the carousel, and then she disappears. He's in a
Speaker 2: mental institution. What happened? He doesn't have his parents, so
Speaker 2: there's a vagary and then he breaks the fourth wall.
Speaker 2: So I think he starts off like talking to the reader,
Speaker 2: but then he's like, you're doing this internal dialogue, which
Speaker 2: is very strange because when you read that, you're really
Speaker 2: in his head and he's in your head. So there's
Speaker 2: this kind of cross osmosis I think going on. Yeah,
Speaker 2: and then he says, I don't know why I did it.
Speaker 2: I'm just telling you this real story. So he doesn't
Speaker 2: even have positive conclusions. From the fourth time he gets
Speaker 2: kicked out of a prep school and runs around New
Speaker 2: York City calling random people on the phone and hanging
Speaker 2: out in phone books and calling prostitutes that he doesn't like.
Speaker 2: He does he calls a prostitute, but it's like a
Speaker 2: it's like an insult. He doesn't know what to do.
Speaker 2: He panics, so he's afraid of women. He's sixteen at
Speaker 2: the time. So yeah, it's just it's not a positive
Speaker 2: book at all, Like after reading it, it's just like
Speaker 2: off the charts. But he's always blaming other things. People.
Speaker 2: People are ruining things for you. But yeah, if maybe
Speaker 2: we can watch some of these things because it is
Speaker 2: in the common culture. Like there is a conspiracy theory
Speaker 2: movie where the mel Gibson's carrying catching the Ryot. There's
Speaker 2: a sequence in another mind control themed film, The Shining,
Speaker 2: where the woman forgot her name and Danny right. Well,
Speaker 2: the same themes are in Shining, like there's an undercurrent
Speaker 2: of pedophilia and abuse, and she's reading The Red Covered.
Speaker 2: You know this book that's associated with death My god.
Speaker 5: I forgot about that in the beginning of the movie.
Speaker 2: Yeah, so I have a picture of it in my slides.
Speaker 2: But maybe we can watch Let's see if I can
Speaker 2: get this to actually play.
Speaker 6: There's something with her dress as well.
Speaker 2: It's the same color dress as what Phoebe was wearing
Speaker 2: when she was when she was on the carousel. All right,
Speaker 2: let's see if I get this way. Make sure you
Speaker 2: hear this. Hopefully you'll get the sound.
Speaker 6: Yeah, we get it.
Speaker 7: Okay, okay, kids, let's take our saints. There has been
Speaker 7: a change in school policy, and so I'm assigning you
Speaker 7: all a book to read.
Speaker 8: A book.
Speaker 5: God, I hate those now.
Speaker 7: Kids, this book is very controversial and has just been
Speaker 7: taken off the banned books list.
Speaker 6: Oh really sweet.
Speaker 7: It's called Catcher in the Ride and it has some
Speaker 7: very riskue parts, oh right, and strong vulgar language. And
Speaker 7: in fact, many schools across the country still ban this
Speaker 7: book because it's thought to be so inappropriate.
Speaker 6: Oh man, I can't wait tonight.
Speaker 7: I want you to read chapters one through five, and
Speaker 7: tomorrow we'll discuss this.
Speaker 5: Come on, let's read it now, mister Garrison. Didn't the
Speaker 5: guy who shot John Lennon say it was because of
Speaker 5: this book?
Speaker 7: Yes, apparently John Lennon's killer said he was inspired by
Speaker 7: Catcher in the Ride, but he was just a kug.
Speaker 5: Well, you're telling us this book is filthy, inappropriate and made.
Speaker 7: A guy shoot the King of Hippies.
Speaker 5: Can we please read this right now?
Speaker 7: You will read it at home, and you will all
Speaker 7: be mature about its adult themes and language.
Speaker 1: Ah.
Speaker 2: So that's just kind of a funny one. But there's
Speaker 2: also another video here. Let's see if I can pull
Speaker 2: it up. This is Butters with the book kill John
Speaker 2: Lenning Killed, John Lenning.
Speaker 5: Care, Joann yannying Care, John Lenny Hey dad, Raddy, John
Speaker 5: Lenny Live, John Lennon's dad Batters, Hi, dang it.
Speaker 2: So just kind of like seeing it in the common
Speaker 2: culture I think is interesting, Like it's clearly their people
Speaker 2: kind of know the story. I don't they know. I
Speaker 2: don't know if they know how deep it really goes.
Speaker 2: But it's like crazy because it's like Chapman absorbed himself
Speaker 2: and became the main character, so he became old in
Speaker 2: call Field.
Speaker 5: But didn't he have like a weird thing with Kenneth Anger,
Speaker 5: like in the in Dave McGowan's work that after or
Speaker 5: right before right after he killed John Lennon, he approached
Speaker 5: Kenneth Anger with like something like a momento of.
Speaker 2: The a bullet He said something to Anger about a bullet.
Speaker 2: That's a good memory. I'm gonna make that and put
Speaker 2: that in my notes that I'll have to be.
Speaker 5: Added, William, because that's the first thing I thought of
Speaker 5: when you mentioned the other connection to to Kenneth Anger,
Speaker 5: the other guy, I was like, Kinsey Kinsey, right, yeah,
Speaker 5: because because this the Mark David guy, he also had
Speaker 5: a thing for Kenneth Anger.
Speaker 2: Chapman had a thing for Anger, didn't you. I'll have
Speaker 2: to look into that. I know that there was a
Speaker 2: meaning I remember writing about in my book Children of
Speaker 2: the Beast. I remember writing about Anger and Chapman like
Speaker 2: a brief thing, but I didn't know what I know now,
Speaker 2: but it is. There's a really kind of well in
Speaker 2: my other in my book too and my section on
Speaker 2: Anger in Kinsey have a picture of Anger and Kinsey
Speaker 2: at Crowley's Abbey of Thelema, so they're hanging out together,
Speaker 2: and there's videos of those two together. Anger was involved
Speaker 2: in Kinsey's I mean a scientist well abuse abuse. I
Speaker 2: call it abuse material now, but that used to be
Speaker 2: called like experiments or Kinsey's experiments, which are really horrific
Speaker 2: if you really look into them. They were like abusing
Speaker 2: infants and stuff like really sick o.
Speaker 5: Lord, they travel in small circles though.
Speaker 2: You know, yeah, it's really bad. I mean. Anger is
Speaker 2: another story because Anger is interesting because he ties to Kinsey,
Speaker 2: to Chapman and to the Manson family, and Bobby Booseley
Speaker 2: lived with him at the Russian Embassy off of Hate,
Speaker 2: pretty close to.
Speaker 4: Hate, and Vito and Vita Polikus and the Freaks also
Speaker 4: had some kind of Anger thing because their son before
Speaker 4: he he was going to originally play the role. I
Speaker 4: think it was, Yeah, which is weird a little kid.
Speaker 2: Yeah, so, I mean, and you can see the pictures.
Speaker 2: I mean, a lot of the over people who researched
Speaker 2: Manson Kat conveniently overlook the connection between Bob boos Lay
Speaker 2: and Anger. And it's a mistake because Busi Lay is
Speaker 2: Lucifer I think, either not in Lucifer Rising, but my
Speaker 2: demon brother. And there's pictures of them going down the
Speaker 2: stairs and ritual stuff and all the tattoos and stuff.
Speaker 2: The mark of the Beast is there.
Speaker 5: Those two had a big crush on each other, that's
Speaker 5: for sure.
Speaker 2: Anger is not straight. Anger likes I think I.
Speaker 5: Think there was a relationship.
Speaker 2: Yeah, well, the I think it's like the older gay
Speaker 2: guy and the younger good Like Boosla was a ladies man,
Speaker 2: There's just no question about it. Like women liked him,
Speaker 2: so I think that he was the I think there
Speaker 2: was something going on between both them and the magical things.
Speaker 2: Like Boosilet said he experienced intense spiritual events living with anger,
Speaker 2: like he literally had supernatural events and stuff like that.
Speaker 5: So they were opening each other's third eyes.
Speaker 2: I believe it. You don't want to see that happen,
Speaker 2: but I believe the uh Boozila was part of a
Speaker 2: band called the Magical Powerhouse of Oz and so OZ
Speaker 2: if you know Crowley, o Z kind of corresponds to
Speaker 2: seventy seven and liber Oz, which is Crowley's kind of
Speaker 2: Huba tractate of human freedom, if you want to call
Speaker 2: it that. But the Magical was spelled with a K too,
Speaker 2: right obviously, like with the K the power number eleven.
Speaker 2: And they were playing around all this stuff in the hate.
Speaker 2: So that's kind. I mean, this, this whole environment of
Speaker 2: the hate at that time was absolutely insane. Process manson
Speaker 2: jolly jolly West all around there. I mean, it's really
Speaker 2: the clinic or whatever, the free clinic the so called
Speaker 2: free clinic anyway, So anger we go back to where
Speaker 2: do we leave off? I think we we can just
Speaker 2: go straight to the book. We watch those two videos.
Speaker 2: Are you seeing the slides on your end? Yeah? Okay,
Speaker 2: do you want me to just go through them? This
Speaker 2: is the book? So you see the covers of these
Speaker 2: books always the same. It's like red and gold for
Speaker 2: some reason. And then the second one is the end
Speaker 2: sequence of the book, which takes place at the carousel, right,
Speaker 2: that's what it's referencing. So that's taking place at Central Park.
Speaker 2: And this third slide, you guys can see this with
Speaker 2: the murder hat right, So this is actually another cover
Speaker 2: from fifty one. That's chainsmoking Holden call Field with his
Speaker 2: people hunting hat and dissociating about the ducks. Where do
Speaker 2: the ducks go? Right? Like it's really incredible. And then
Speaker 2: this is kind of a thing showing sixty five million
Speaker 2: copies were sold. This is what JD. Salinger looked like.
Speaker 2: He literally landed it. I think Omaha Beach. So this
Speaker 2: may June nineteen forty four. He landed in France, and
Speaker 2: he knew he spoke fluent French and German, so he
Speaker 2: was definitely an intel asset, so he could he could
Speaker 2: really and their stories like apparently he's fairly close. I
Speaker 2: mean people who know the story of Werner von Braun
Speaker 2: and all this stuff like that. Apparently he was involved
Speaker 2: in that. I have to go back and confirm that
Speaker 2: involved in in debriefing a lot of German assets.
Speaker 5: Oh my god. Yeah, this little seventy seven on his hat, Yeah,
Speaker 5: it's a strange number.
Speaker 2: I think it was the seventy seventh Infantry. He also
Speaker 2: had a short brief marriage with a German woman who
Speaker 2: hated Jews and he was Jewish, and so, I mean
Speaker 2: he had some pretty intense like connections during the war.
Speaker 2: He said he I think he was at Dak Hour
Speaker 2: or something like that. He said that this of human
Speaker 2: bodies that can never get out of his nose. So
Speaker 2: he had a really pretty horrible thing. So here's Chapman.
Speaker 2: He's got the finger to his head. Right. This is
Speaker 2: a I think it's a picture from People magazine. And
Speaker 2: there's Hinkley, same kind of same kind of weird visage,
Speaker 2: some kind of something pointing to his head. And you'll
Speaker 2: see the same kind of theme when we get to
Speaker 2: the film Taxi Driver, Right, The Taxi Driver ends with
Speaker 2: Robert de Niro, who plays Travis Pickell, doing that same
Speaker 2: motion of gun to his head. So we're gonna see
Speaker 2: reality shape into fiction, fiction shapes back into reality, and
Speaker 2: it's it's kind of there's some kind of weird hypnotic thing,
Speaker 2: I think in taking place where these the blurred lines
Speaker 2: are clearly blurred between reality and fiction fiction being Catcher
Speaker 2: in the Ryan, these guys reality literally trying to kill
Speaker 2: people or being Patsy's like I don't think Chapman actually
Speaker 2: killed Lennon, but it's an the story still present. So
Speaker 2: even here, this is TMZ saying John Hankley Junior asked
Speaker 2: by ex users to assassinate Donald Trump, and we'll see
Speaker 2: this like there's I don't know how many times he's
Speaker 2: been assassinated or attempted, I know three off end. But
Speaker 2: there was also these other weird events Libelsburger where he
Speaker 2: went to Trump Tower on the first of twenty twenty five.
Speaker 2: If you remember that he blew up his Tesla truck.
Speaker 2: Supposedly Weir and these guys all are attached for Bragg,
Speaker 2: like go figure, and there's a lot of dark stuff
Speaker 2: at Fort Bragg. But you see Hinckley had an obsession
Speaker 2: with Jody Foster, whereas Hakafield had this obsession with Phoebe.
Speaker 2: So she's kind of mirroring this book. And you'll see.
Speaker 2: Hinckley had a catcher in the rye. He also associated
Speaker 2: with this guy, Travis Bickle. I think that The Taxi
Speaker 2: Driver won Best Picture of Best Screenplay in nineteen seventy four,
Speaker 2: so it was right around this time Bickle. It was
Speaker 2: an inspiration from another guy, Bremer, who will see it
Speaker 2: just it's it's unbelievable. Bremer tried to kill George Wallace
Speaker 2: in nineteen seventy two. Bickol's inspired by them, and then
Speaker 2: Bickle inspires Hinckley. So here's I mean, these are cultural figures.
Speaker 2: This guy like DeNiro for sure, but also Travis Bickele
Speaker 2: with her. I guess Jodie Foster like was never the
Speaker 2: same after filming this movie or whatever. But anyway, this
Speaker 2: book The President has been shot. This is page nineteen
Speaker 2: The Assassin. Hinckley identified with Travis and began to act
Speaker 2: like him after he'd seen the film fifteen times crazy.
Speaker 2: He bought the same clothes, ate the same food strength,
Speaker 2: the same liquors, and invented a girlfriend, just said Bickle.
Speaker 2: In August nineteen seventy nine, he bought a thirty eight
Speaker 2: caliber pistol. In January eighty he bought a six point
Speaker 2: five caliber rifle. In China, July sixteenth, he purchased a
Speaker 2: twenty two caliber rifle. If you've seen Taxi, there's a
Speaker 2: sequence where bickles in a hotel room buying weapons for
Speaker 2: the assassination. And one of the lesser known people we
Speaker 2: were talking about is Robert John Bardo, who looks absolutely
Speaker 2: deranged in this picture from nineteen eighty nine, and he
Speaker 2: hunted down and killed this woman. Nobody really knows why
Speaker 2: he was obsessed with Rebecca Schaeffer, but she was an
Speaker 2: up and coming actress and went all the way I
Speaker 2: think he was in You'll see this other thing that's
Speaker 2: very consistent with like these killers, they're moving around a lot.
Speaker 2: It's very strange. Hinckley was moving towards DC. And you'll
Speaker 2: see this in the book when I show it. I'll
Speaker 2: show it in the presentation. But Chapman was in o
Speaker 2: Waho and you'll see this later, like who else was
Speaker 2: in a wah who recently we'll get to that. You'll
Speaker 2: see these weird overlaps, but direct evidence. Nineteen eighty nine,
Speaker 2: a red paperback copy of The Catcher in the Rye
Speaker 2: was found on the roof of the Beverly Pumps Rehabilitation
Speaker 2: Center Boulevard. He Bartow indicated he threw a red covered
Speaker 2: paperback book entitled The Catcher in the Rye in the
Speaker 2: alley while he was running, said his Skoto. The discovery
Speaker 2: of the book hark back to the nineteen eighty one
Speaker 2: shooting a former beadle John Lennon by one time mental
Speaker 2: patient Mark David Chapman in New York City. After the
Speaker 2: obsessed fan shot the rock singer, he calmly took out
Speaker 2: a copy of J. D. Salager novel and was reading
Speaker 2: it when police arrived. True story, So this one is
Speaker 2: eight years after it actually happened in nineteen eighty. Whoever
Speaker 2: the journalist got the date ron not too bad off.
Speaker 2: But anyway, there's a lot of newspaper articles of these
Speaker 2: two guys together, Lenin and Hinckley. And if you read
Speaker 2: this in the center of this article, I forgot where
Speaker 2: I was from. It says Reed's Catcher in the Rye
Speaker 2: passage in court, which we'll get to Hinkley's defense not
Speaker 2: yet determined. Hinkley's dad counts his son's trip into a
Speaker 2: dark world of mental illness. He was actually at one
Speaker 2: point kind of a normal, promising young kid, is like
Speaker 2: what other people said. And then bart Oh Barto was
Speaker 2: not insane, which is really strange. He was not insane
Speaker 2: when he killed the actress, but suffered from a schizophrenic
Speaker 2: disorder notice splitting, which hampered his ability to form the
Speaker 2: intent for murder. Psychiatrist testified, this is park Elliott Diets
Speaker 2: who's on TV all the time, used to be. He
Speaker 2: said that Bartow identified closely with Mark David Chapman, Lenin's assassin,
Speaker 2: and knew that Chapman had the JD. Salinger book about
Speaker 2: a young Man's alienation with him when he shot Lenin.
Speaker 2: He's alienated, holding call Fields more than alienated. What's interesting
Speaker 2: about Bardow is that he was smart enough. He was calculated,
Speaker 2: supposedly to hire detectives to hunter down and find out
Speaker 2: where she was. It's so weird. Nineteen year old guy,
Speaker 2: a young guy she was on this show called my
Speaker 2: sister Sam. Just more things. Chapman and Hinckley together write
Speaker 2: same news articles. That's a Schaeffer with their parents before
Speaker 2: before she was shot. And then the Catcher in the
Speaker 2: Rise linked to JFK. John Lennon, and we're back in Shaffer.
Speaker 2: Supposedly Oswald. One of his favorite books I haven't verified
Speaker 2: it yet was Catcher in the Rye and was in
Speaker 2: his library when he was in Dallas. But here's that
Speaker 2: sequence we were talking about earlier. This is the shining
Speaker 2: with Danny and she's reading a Catcher on the Rye
Speaker 2: and the same outfit that Phoebe's has on a blue
Speaker 2: dress when she was on the on the carousel in
Speaker 2: New York City in Central Park. And then there's the
Speaker 2: Catcher in the Rye. This is from the movie Conspiracy Theory.
Speaker 2: He's always asking, I'm a video of him too, I
Speaker 2: can say if I can find it. Another guy who's
Speaker 2: research Catcher in the Rye is Joe Atwell. And last
Speaker 2: sentence of this one the Freemason. The writer is freemason.
Speaker 2: I just mentioned Albert Albert Pike, right, he wrote Morals
Speaker 2: and Dogma. It was very much involved in the formation
Speaker 2: of the KKK. But this is it is alleged that
Speaker 2: Lee Harvey Oswald had a copy in his apartment and
Speaker 2: that it was one of his favorite books, although this
Speaker 2: is disputed.
Speaker 4: So.
Speaker 2: I haven't confirmed that yet. This is like the repetitive phrase.
Speaker 2: This is the people shooting at I shoot people in
Speaker 2: this hat. And you can actually go get the audiobook
Speaker 2: right now. This is the picture that they use on
Speaker 2: the audiobook. Is him with his murder hat right. It's Callfield.
Speaker 2: I've interviewed this guy, David Wheel and Mind Games. This
Speaker 2: is a recent book where he went through all of
Speaker 2: the John Lennon stuff and Chapman, and his conclusion is
Speaker 2: that there's no way Chapman could have killed Lenin. He
Speaker 2: wasn't in the right place at the right time, and
Speaker 2: Lennon's body was moved around. But Lennon had a very
Speaker 2: tight bullet thing. It wasn't like somebody casually shooting at
Speaker 2: thirty eight. Somebody got up close and shot him at
Speaker 2: the right spot, the left side of the chest, so
Speaker 2: that there's no way that he would have He was
Speaker 2: dead when he hit the ground, like somebody pro would
Speaker 2: do that to make it.
Speaker 6: Wasn't it like seven shots?
Speaker 2: Yeah, seven shots right to the chest in a very
Speaker 2: tight thing. So it's not some random guy. There's no
Speaker 2: evidence that Chapman was like really a gunsmith. He had guns,
Speaker 2: but so is Ketcher in.
Speaker 5: The I don't know. I'm just forming a theory and
Speaker 5: maybe you'll get to it. But it's like it signals
Speaker 5: maybe more Patsy type association than it does assassins.
Speaker 2: Exactly. It's precisely, it's about Patsy's it's not about the assassins.
Speaker 2: And you'll see that the same thing. I mean, we
Speaker 2: go into RFK sar answer and he's in the pantry,
Speaker 2: he's shooting guns. It's possibly a brant, So there's eleven bullets.
Speaker 2: There's like he had an eight shooter or something, so
Speaker 2: there's more bullets to be accounted of. And the medical
Speaker 2: examiner at the time was a Japanese guy who seemed
Speaker 2: to have a real independent streak, and he's on videos
Speaker 2: saying the killing of I mean, this is timely because
Speaker 2: RFJJ RFK juniors and this administration. But the bullet that
Speaker 2: came from behind that killed Robert F. Kennedy in sixty
Speaker 2: eight came about six inches behind his head and there's
Speaker 2: no evidence anymore. Nobody ever said Sir Ann was that
Speaker 2: close to him. So I mean, that's another show. He
Speaker 2: kind of does tie into this, but he didn't. There's
Speaker 2: not a real clear connection to There's clear connection to
Speaker 2: the driving language, but there's not connection to the book itself.
Speaker 2: But this is the kind of book I used as
Speaker 2: the background for by Chapman Inquiry, which is the murder
Speaker 2: of John Lennon Fenton bresla And here is this is
Speaker 2: the connection between Sir hanserm and Chapman. When you come
Speaker 2: to read in detail about how Mark Chapman behaved after
Speaker 2: Lennon's murder, you'll find a striking parallel between the days,
Speaker 2: as if in a trance like condition of the two
Speaker 2: men he's talking about. Sir Ansterram, Mark remembered more of
Speaker 2: the actual killing, but otherwise the reacts were almost identical.
Speaker 2: And remember what ex Lieutenant of Detectives, Arthur O'Connor said,
Speaker 2: I saw him the night of the murder. I studied
Speaker 2: him intensely. He looked at it as if he could
Speaker 2: have been programmed. And I know what you what use
Speaker 2: you're going to make of that word. So it's kind
Speaker 2: of an interesting art of this guy's very attuned Befent
Speaker 2: and breslaer to like Walter Bauert and hunt for the
Speaker 2: Manchurian candidate. But here's the connection between Sirhan, Sirhan and Chapman.
Speaker 2: This and he calls this money too to me because
Speaker 2: he calls it an odd footnote. But to me, this
Speaker 2: is central to the whole story, which is I'll quote it.
Speaker 2: There's an odd footnote to all this. The principal medical
Speaker 2: defense witness for Sirhan was doctor Bernard Diamond of the
Speaker 2: University of California, one of America's leading psychiatrists to use
Speaker 2: hypnosis in his work. Thirteen years later, he was to
Speaker 2: be one of the defense psychiatrists in Mark's case. His
Speaker 2: diagnosis for the two men was the same paranoid schizophrenium,
Speaker 2: yet he seems not to have used hypnosis in either
Speaker 2: of the two interviews with Mark, although he hypnotized Sir
Speaker 2: Han on six of his eight visits to great effect.
Speaker 2: For instance, when mister doctor Diamond asked Sir Hand where
Speaker 2: he had concealed the gun while waiting for Kennedy, Sir Hand,
Speaker 2: in his trance, went for the inside of his belt
Speaker 2: on the left side, and the police at last knew
Speaker 2: where he carried the weapon, so he responded to like
Speaker 2: hypnotic conditioning. But one of these striving languages that's reflected
Speaker 2: in the book, is reflected in this book and in
Speaker 2: Sir Han's actions, which is in fact, his notebooks were
Speaker 2: full of strange writings, often with words repeated three times
Speaker 2: or more. Right, and so it's so strange because in
Speaker 2: Capturing the Rye, Holden Callfield says I will, I will,
Speaker 2: I will, So he's repeating stuff. Sir Hann said that
Speaker 2: he did not remember writing in the notebooks, but he
Speaker 2: agreed that he must have done so. At one point,
Speaker 2: doctor Diamond showed him a photocopy of one of the
Speaker 2: bizarre entries and questioned him about it while he was
Speaker 2: still any epnotic trance. Is this crazy writing? Diamond asked, yes, yes, yes,
Speaker 2: Sir Hann wrote, are you crazy? No? No, well, why
Speaker 2: are you writing crazy? Practice? Practice? Practice practice for what?
Speaker 2: Mind control? Mind control? Mind control? Was the ritz in reply,
Speaker 2: and R. F. K.
Speaker 6: Junior was kind of pushing for a pardon.
Speaker 2: Yeah. No, I think certain parts of the family, of
Speaker 2: the Kennedy family believe that Sir Ann's innocent. I think
Speaker 2: they're correct. Yeah. You can go to page nineteen of
Speaker 2: Capturing the Rye and hear them say you will, you will,
Speaker 2: you will, so you see the same kind of reflection.
Speaker 2: Go to page nineteen. I think it's in there. Let
Speaker 2: me see if I can find my copy.
Speaker 6: Is it.
Speaker 2: Chapter No, I don't think so it's Let me see
Speaker 2: if I can find it.
Speaker 5: Wasn't the RFK stuff supposed to come out with all
Speaker 5: that Trump sign in business?
Speaker 4: Well, that's what they were saying initially. So far it's
Speaker 4: just been a half assed Epstein dump. And that's what
Speaker 4: I figured was, like, how many thousands of pages?
Speaker 2: Yeah, there's a.
Speaker 5: Lot of If they released it and it said Catcher
Speaker 5: in the Ride, yeah it would.
Speaker 6: Nothing would surprise me at this point.
Speaker 2: No, here it is here. This is from I don't
Speaker 2: know what page this is. It's Verre at the beginning
Speaker 2: of the book. Let me see what chapter it is.
Speaker 2: This is where you talk about Egyptian chapter. It's chapter two.
Speaker 2: It's after he talks to he's talking to old Spencer. Oh,
Speaker 2: I feel some concern for my future? All right, sure,
Speaker 2: sure I do. I thought about it for a minute,
Speaker 2: but not too much. I guess, not too much, I guess,
Speaker 2: he says. And then Spencer says, you will. Old Spencer said,
Speaker 2: you will, boy, you will. When it's too late. I
Speaker 2: didn't like him hearing say that. It made me sound
Speaker 2: dead or something. It was very depressing. I guess I will.
Speaker 2: So he like receives this repetitive message. And in my
Speaker 2: book it's chapter two, right before chapter three, so it's
Speaker 2: right at the end of chapter two. See if you
Speaker 2: can find it. He's talking to Spencer. Yeah, I got it.
Speaker 3: You will.
Speaker 6: Old Spencer said you will, boy, you will. When it's
Speaker 6: too late, you will, you will?
Speaker 2: You will yeah wow uh and then he responds back,
Speaker 2: So he's taking this call. And then he responds it back. Oh,
Speaker 2: I guess I will crazy. So that's right at the
Speaker 2: beginning too. So being exposed to these kind of repetitive phrases.
Speaker 6: And what character was this Spencer guy was this?
Speaker 2: I think he was his headmaster. I think he was
Speaker 2: his headmaster at PENCI. The second most popular misconception about
Speaker 2: Mark relates to J. D. Salader's famous and novel The Catcher.
Speaker 2: In the Rye the Theories, he always identified himself with
Speaker 2: holding Callfield the book's phony hating sixteen year old hero
Speaker 2: ever since he first read Catcher. And then he says,
Speaker 2: I think he says it's not true. Um, he says
Speaker 2: after all, the book is named May's New York policeman
Speaker 2: found him quietly reading outside the Dakota when you throw
Speaker 2: down his gun immediately after killing Lenin, with the inscription
Speaker 2: inside the cover written by Mark, which I have in
Speaker 2: the I have the actual handwriting of Chapman to holding
Speaker 2: Callfield from holding Calfield. This is my statement. In his
Speaker 2: prison cell awaiting trial, he maintained the reason I killed
Speaker 2: John Lennon was to gain prominence to promote the reading
Speaker 2: of J. D. Salager's The Catcher and the Rye. I'm
Speaker 2: not saying I'm a messiah or anything like that. If
Speaker 2: you read the book, and if you understand my past,
Speaker 2: you will see that I am indeed the Catcher in
Speaker 2: the Rye of this generation. So he's not he doesn't
Speaker 2: identify he is the Catcher in the Rye. He is
Speaker 2: holding Callfield. So this fictional book has captured his mind.
Speaker 2: Like it's incredible when you think about it, if you
Speaker 2: think about how dark Callfield is and what he represents
Speaker 2: in this whole experience that he's having, and then goes
Speaker 2: on this is a book that he just picked up
Speaker 2: recently before, letting people say that he was always obsessed
Speaker 2: with catchering the Rye, And according to Fenton Bressler, that
Speaker 2: is not true. It was clearly a difficult time for
Speaker 2: him this page one thirty nine. It's clearly a difficult
Speaker 2: time for him. And now an ominous new factor came
Speaker 2: into his life. He became interested in The Catcher and
Speaker 2: the Rye. We do not know why. We do not
Speaker 2: know if anyone suggested it to him. If so, who
Speaker 2: catchures a book that most people read once in their life,
Speaker 2: in their teens, And now that's it, and that's it.
Speaker 2: Why on earth, seemingly out of the blue, did Mark
Speaker 2: suddenly get so involved in a book that, like most
Speaker 2: of his generation of young Americans, he had already read
Speaker 2: before at school nearly ten years earlier. So that's like one.
Speaker 2: Here's another one.
Speaker 4: Let's see.
Speaker 2: The imbalance of the psychological makeup of immature sixteen year
Speaker 2: old hold and callfield exactly suited the temperament of the bewildered,
Speaker 2: unhappy twenty five year old Mark Chapman. Nowhere is this
Speaker 2: better exemplified than his beloved young visiting his beloved younger
Speaker 2: sister Phoebe school in an abortive attempt to talk to her,
Speaker 2: seize the words f you written on the wall. This
Speaker 2: is how violent the book is. Quote. It drove me
Speaker 2: damn near crazy. I thought how Phoebe and all the
Speaker 2: other little kids would see it, and how they wonder
Speaker 2: what the hell it meant, and then finally some dirty
Speaker 2: kid would tell them. I kept wanting to kill who'd
Speaker 2: ever written it. I figured it was some perverty bomb
Speaker 2: that sneaked in the school late at night and then
Speaker 2: wrote it on the wall. So this is his trigger
Speaker 2: word as his F you. I kept picturing myself catching him,
Speaker 2: So there's the catch theme overlapping. I pictured myself catching
Speaker 2: him at it, and how I'd smash his head on
Speaker 2: the stone steps till he was good and goddamn dead
Speaker 2: and bloody. But knew I knew too that I didn't
Speaker 2: have the guts to do it. That made me more depressed.
Speaker 2: He's always getting more depressed. He only gets happy, I
Speaker 2: think when he sees Phoebe. But it just shows like
Speaker 2: this is violent language. This is aggressive language, Like if
Speaker 2: you stated that in a public place or at school
Speaker 2: or your job, people would like write you up like.
Speaker 5: It's intense smashing somebody's bloody head, yeah, till.
Speaker 2: They're goddamn dead right. Mark was clearly going through torment.
Speaker 2: He told his perplexed wife that he was thinking of
Speaker 2: changing his name to Holden Callfield. So he's changing his name.
Speaker 2: On September tenth, he actually wrote to a school teacher
Speaker 2: friend named Linda Irish, who had move from Honolulu to
Speaker 2: New Mexico, quote, I'm going nuts unquote. He drew a
Speaker 2: picture of Diamond Head Mountain with the sun winding stars
Speaker 2: above it and signed the letter the Catcher in the
Speaker 2: Rye Mark, So he's like twisting into the Catcher in
Speaker 2: the Rye. And this is on the day of the murder.
Speaker 2: As he walked the twenty blocks up to the Dakota
Speaker 2: on West seventy second Street, incongruous amid the lightly dressed
Speaker 2: New Yorkers with his heavy winter year, he realized he
Speaker 2: was missing a prop. He had with him, his Double
Speaker 2: Fantasy album, but something was missing. He altered his progress
Speaker 2: toward lenin selected place of execution and dived into a
Speaker 2: bookshop to emerge with a red paperback copy of The
Speaker 2: Catcher and the Rye. On the title page, he wrote
Speaker 2: to Holding call Field from Holding call Field and below
Speaker 2: that this is my statement. So on the day of
Speaker 2: the killing. He actually goes there. It just goes on.
Speaker 2: It's just like the bookstore. Then he gets arrested, right,
Speaker 2: so I think the murder tick takes place, or the
Speaker 2: death Lennon's December eighth, nineteen eighty. On February first, he
Speaker 2: decides to write a missive to The New York Times,
Speaker 2: you know, the paper of record. So on Sunday, February first,
Speaker 2: Mark sat down and wrote to The New York Times
Speaker 2: in Ballpoint capital as a statement, which the newspaper printed
Speaker 2: eight days later. Seldom could a booked that first appeared
Speaker 2: in paperbacks seventeen years earlier have had such a glowing
Speaker 2: sales boost. So he's like facilitating the sale of this
Speaker 2: dark book. Quote. This is from Chavin. It is my
Speaker 2: sincere belief that presenting this written statement will not only
Speaker 2: stimulate the reading of J. D. Salinger's The Catcher in
Speaker 2: the Rye, but will also help many to understand what
Speaker 2: has happened. If you are able to view the actual
Speaker 2: copy of The Catcher in the Rye that was taken
Speaker 2: from me on the night of December eighth, you would
Speaker 2: find in it the handwritten words this is my statement.
Speaker 2: Unfortunately I was unable to continue this stance and have
Speaker 2: since spoken openly with the police, doctors and others involved.
Speaker 2: He had like six doctors, including that guy Diamond who
Speaker 2: I mentioned earlier, others involved in this case. I now
Speaker 2: fully realized that this should not have been done for
Speaker 2: remove the emphasis I wanted to place on the book.
Speaker 2: My wish is for all of you to someday read
Speaker 2: The Catcher in the Rye. All my efforts will now
Speaker 2: be devoted toward this goal. For this extraordinary book holds
Speaker 2: many answers. My true hope is that in wanting to
Speaker 2: find these answers, you will read The Catcher in the Rye.
Speaker 2: Thank you, Mark, David Chapman.
Speaker 5: The Catcher in the Rye, well, he's not wrong. I
Speaker 5: mean people did sensationalize it after that, but it had
Speaker 5: help along the way. I mean, it was in the
Speaker 5: shining and there's a bunch of weirdo celebrity people who
Speaker 5: talk about it all the time. But he really did
Speaker 5: make it infamous.
Speaker 2: Yeah, including Lenona Ryder. Who else did the other celebrities
Speaker 2: that you know.
Speaker 5: Of, Jennifer Lawrence, James Franco I didn't know that. Yeah,
Speaker 5: they both say that it changed their lives literally.
Speaker 2: Didn't no one.
Speaker 6: JH. W. Bush loves it. Bill Gates loves it.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I have like the slides for those guys.
Speaker 5: Yeah, you should look at what James Franco said. He's
Speaker 5: a real freaking weirdo.
Speaker 2: That is weird. But Wenona Ryder said she's read the
Speaker 2: book twelve hundred times.
Speaker 5: Yeah, well she's also a girl interrupted, so maybe that
Speaker 5: just an extension of her.
Speaker 2: Okay, I think I have a slide. I haven't seen
Speaker 2: that movie. I gotta see it.
Speaker 6: We should.
Speaker 5: It's so good, so good.
Speaker 4: We should keep our eye on mine own and and anybody.
Speaker 4: She's in close proximity too.
Speaker 5: She was in that movie with Britney Murphy.
Speaker 6: Twelve hundred times. That's that's crazy.
Speaker 2: Yeah, her admission not mine, that's crazy. This is just like, yeah,
Speaker 2: it just goes on and on. He shows up in
Speaker 2: court on Monday. This is like court. So he goes
Speaker 2: to court on August, like eight months after the murder.
Speaker 2: On Monday twenty fourth, nineteen eighty one, Mark David Chapman
Speaker 2: his hair close crop from the incident when, with Greg
Speaker 2: Krimin's help, he had totally shaved his head ed walked
Speaker 2: into justice Edwards Court under his usually heavily armed guard.
Speaker 2: He carried with him a copy of The Catcher in
Speaker 2: the Rye, so he's carrying it into court and then
Speaker 2: he quotes from it. I mean, it's just like crazy.
Speaker 2: What about Mark himself? He had spent several hours listening
Speaker 2: to other people talking about him. What did he have
Speaker 2: to say in his own defense? Asking if he had
Speaker 2: anything to say in court? Before the sentence was pronounced,
Speaker 2: Mark opened his copy of The Catcher in the Rye
Speaker 2: and read an extract to the hushed part forty nine.
Speaker 2: He had worked it out carefully. If you want to
Speaker 2: check for yourself, can be found on page one seventy
Speaker 2: three of the Bantam paperback, the same edition that Mark
Speaker 2: n Court. See if it's in one page one seventy three,
Speaker 2: Holden Callfield is talking to his young sister Phoebe the
Speaker 2: only person in the world whom he really loves, about
Speaker 2: what he wants to be when he grows up. She
Speaker 2: suggests a lawyer like their father, but Holding dismissed his
Speaker 2: lawyers as phonies. What he wants to be is a
Speaker 2: Catcher in the Rye, and he explains what he means
Speaker 2: in this passage cited by Mark David Chapman on his
Speaker 2: day of judgment. Anyway, keep quote anyway. I keep picturing
Speaker 2: these little kids playing some game in the big field
Speaker 2: of rye and all thousands of little kids, and nobody
Speaker 2: is around, nobody big, I mean, except me, And I'm
Speaker 2: standing on the edge of some craggy cliff. What have
Speaker 2: I to do? I have to catch everybody if they
Speaker 2: start going over the cliff. I mean, they are running
Speaker 2: and they don't look where they are going. I have
Speaker 2: to come out from somewhere and catch them. That's all
Speaker 2: I do all day. I just be the catcher in
Speaker 2: the literally quotes up, am I stupid?
Speaker 5: Or did you already explain this? But what the what
Speaker 5: is the rye? What is rye?
Speaker 2: Rye is like a wheat, like it's a grain, rye
Speaker 2: bread and things like that.
Speaker 6: So it's like a field or what, yeah, field, I
Speaker 6: don't know.
Speaker 2: I mean like a field of grain, like a field
Speaker 2: of wheat. It's like a variant. That's why you go
Speaker 2: get rye bread. It's a different type of like Colonel.
Speaker 5: So he wants to be the catcher in the wheat field.
Speaker 2: Correct, So that's like a tie into his name, right,
Speaker 2: call field, catcher in the Rye the field. So he's
Speaker 2: like tied to this these symbols and stuff, and you'll
Speaker 2: see how we can get kind of deeper into all
Speaker 2: this stuff. But like there are strange hypnotic things that
Speaker 2: they do where they confuse people and they have overlapping
Speaker 2: like symbols that that kind of you know, field like
Speaker 2: field and names and things like that. They're repetitive, but
Speaker 2: they kind of cause a kind of a confusion in
Speaker 2: the mind because there's different things. So I think that
Speaker 2: that's part of this kind of overlapping, meaning the catcher
Speaker 2: and the Rye and all them call field and some that.
Speaker 2: But you can see that in like other people's like
Speaker 2: actually you see it in The Man Cheering Candidate a
Speaker 2: lot a movie, which that's all another show anyway. So
Speaker 2: a switching book, So I go from Fenton barzel Bressler
Speaker 2: to raw Hide down. Rawhide was Reagan's code name, right,
Speaker 2: his secret service code name. And you see this weird travel.
Speaker 2: So Chapman comes from a Wahoo to kill Lenin. This
Speaker 2: guy's traveling across the United States by bus. Hinklea is
Speaker 2: four day trip was a blur of fast, fluid and
Speaker 2: brief stops Las Vegas, Cheyenne, Chicago, Cleveland, Pittsburgh. Traveling through Utah,
Speaker 2: he woke from a brief nap to find the bus
Speaker 2: hurtling through a massive snowstorm. He spent much of the
Speaker 2: trip to slouch in a window seat, watching the scenery
Speaker 2: stream by or reading The Catcher in the Rye. J. D.
Speaker 2: Salinger's novel of teenage anks an alienation. He identified with
Speaker 2: the story's main character, hold In Caulfield, but the book
Speaker 2: was also special to him because he knew that John
Speaker 2: Lennon's assassin had pulled it from his pocket and leafed
Speaker 2: through it moments after gunning down the rock and Roll
Speaker 2: Icon Lenin, who had been killed three and a half
Speaker 2: months earlier, was Hinkley's favorite musician. Even so, he sometimes
Speaker 2: felt that he identified more with Lenin's killer than with
Speaker 2: Lennon himself. Wow, and it's also strange too, because they
Speaker 2: mentioned something here. These are all kind of weird things
Speaker 2: that tie into Catching the Rye. The suitcase held some
Speaker 2: of his poems and short stories, whereas several several of
Speaker 2: his favorite books. In addition to Catching the Rye, Hinckley
Speaker 2: had also brought along a copy of Shakespeare's Romeo and Juliet,
Speaker 2: the only Shakespeare mentioned in Catcher in the Rye. And
Speaker 2: then a book called Strawberry Fields wherever John Lennon remembered,
Speaker 2: But Strawberry Fields forever. If you watch listen to that,
Speaker 2: it has the same language in it as Catchering the Rye.
Speaker 2: I think I can like dissociate of language. It's really intense.
Speaker 2: It's a very dark, actually, and it kind of ties
Speaker 2: in because after Lending got shot, they opened up like
Speaker 2: a part of Central Park and called it strawberry Fields. Right,
Speaker 2: but listen to lyrics of strawberry Fields. It's wild.
Speaker 6: Didn't you also have some a book about Ted Bundy?
Speaker 5: Just said, go back up to that page right there,
Speaker 5: Hinkley something evident in some items he carried with him
Speaker 5: to Washington. Another of the books in the plaid suitcase
Speaker 5: was Ted Bundy. They kill her next door? Wow, crazy, dude,
Speaker 5: that's crazy. That's like Dave McGowan's stuff right there. That's
Speaker 5: like the program to kill stuff. And you know what
Speaker 5: else if it's I don't know if you have another
Speaker 5: slide on it. But didn't they say like the automatic
Speaker 5: writing in the shining, like all play.
Speaker 2: And all work and makes Jack a doll boy.
Speaker 5: Pack adull boy like he was doing that automated riding thing,
Speaker 5: and she's like reading they Catcher in the Ride at
Speaker 5: the beginning of the movie and stuff, and it's like
Speaker 5: it made yeah, psychic driving stuff.
Speaker 2: It's weird because the timing of the Shining that came
Speaker 2: out before the assassinations is my understanding.
Speaker 6: Yeah, it did. Yeah, And that was something that writer
Speaker 6: Lee and I talked about, how.
Speaker 2: You know, you always presaged it.
Speaker 6: Crumbs.
Speaker 5: I like that he's because he's got everything in it well.
Speaker 4: And then there's the Jack Jack Nicholson and Ted Bundy
Speaker 4: connection with with the yellow bug.
Speaker 6: They changed it from red to yellow intentionally.
Speaker 2: Really, I didn't know that it was.
Speaker 6: It was red and the Stephen King book was read wow.
Speaker 4: And there's even a scene where you can see there's
Speaker 4: a red bug in like a vehicle. Smasher's almost like, uh,
Speaker 4: Kubrick saying, you know, a little f you to King,
Speaker 4: and but then he puts the yellow bug in there.
Speaker 5: With apparently some knowledge of it. He's over here reading
Speaker 5: John Lyn and stuff and Ted Bundy books.
Speaker 2: Incredible, incredible stuff. Man. I think King didn't like the
Speaker 2: Shining too, you know, like he yeah, he had I
Speaker 2: think it's a great movie, but he probably was jealous
Speaker 2: of it or whatever. It didn't I don't think Kobrick
Speaker 2: held fast to any of the books that he optioned,
Speaker 2: you know, he didn't follow them.
Speaker 6: Yep.
Speaker 5: But it would be one thing if if he like
Speaker 5: didn't hold fast the books and made crappy movies. But
Speaker 5: he didn't hold faster the books. It made amazing movies.
Speaker 5: So it's like he can't be mad at him.
Speaker 2: Whoever did his set designing and his cultural stuff. I
Speaker 2: don't whatever he was responsible for or what he ultimately
Speaker 2: made the final decisions, but the amount of research that
Speaker 2: went into those films is like like a real like
Speaker 2: somebody who does research a lot. They have to tip
Speaker 2: their hat to it. Because his frame of reference is
Speaker 2: off the extraordinary. He had to have known people wouldn't.
Speaker 2: He had to have anticipated that people wouldn't get it
Speaker 2: at a first watch, and at sometime in the future
Speaker 2: they look through it and go, oh, I see what
Speaker 2: he was trying to say. Originally I couldn't see it
Speaker 2: when I was in a theater because why don't you
Speaker 2: take part like Guy's white shut or somebody these other ones,
Speaker 2: it's just off the charts, or even like Clockwork Orange,
Speaker 2: which we'll get to. Actually the Clockwork Orange pops up,
Speaker 2: so you can't get away from Kubrick. But anyway, you
Speaker 2: guys mentioned Bush, This is Bush. He listens like you
Speaker 2: can see this online now. Nineteen ninety five, there was
Speaker 2: a marvelous book by Salinger called Catcher in the Rise.
Speaker 2: And this guy's intel all the way from.
Speaker 5: World War two, like he's just he was inspired by Lincoln.
Speaker 2: No, sorry, this is an interview he did Williams, Virginia.
Speaker 2: But if you go back, there's a question somebody asked him,
Speaker 2: was there a book that inspired you? And there's this
Speaker 2: sentence down there that says, there was a marvelous book
Speaker 2: by Salinger called Catcher.
Speaker 4: On the Ruck.
Speaker 5: Okay, who would.
Speaker 2: Have benefited if Reagan died? Yeah? The VP, the VP
Speaker 2: Georgie would have I mean her, you know, facilitated or
Speaker 2: hurtled himself into power. This is another one, another monster
Speaker 2: literal Bill Gates. You may notice that there aren't many
Speaker 2: novels in this my list this year. It's not that
Speaker 2: I don't enjoy fiction. I've read The Catcher in the
Speaker 2: Rye a bunch of times. It's one of my favorite
Speaker 2: books that ever I've sued.
Speaker 6: Is Yeah, but have you read it twelve hundred times?
Speaker 2: Like why no, no, Bill, oh no, no, I don't
Speaker 2: even want to read it again, Like I'm afraid of
Speaker 2: it anyway. Ro Ryan Ruth, He's literally this guy is
Speaker 2: the guy the second Trump assassin is. He was in
Speaker 2: a place in a Wahoo that was literally a mile
Speaker 2: from where Chapman worked in the mental mental hospital.
Speaker 5: This guy has the right pardon this guy likes Ketcher
Speaker 5: in the Rye.
Speaker 2: No, but it's just his His locale is like MANNGEONI, Ruth,
Speaker 2: and Chapman are all on a Wahoo and they all travel.
Speaker 2: They all travel. They travel east, right, So Mangioni ends
Speaker 2: up in Central Park or off Central Park, Chapman ends
Speaker 2: up in Central Park, and Ruth ends up supposedly at
Speaker 2: mar A Lago in Florida. After traveling the world, he's
Speaker 2: he's pictured in Ukraine. He's all over the place. And
Speaker 2: also somebody tracked his cell phone and he's in Fort Bragg,
Speaker 2: like twenty five times much Mike Leebelsberger and these other people, what.
Speaker 6: The awahu thing?
Speaker 2: You know?
Speaker 4: Just gets me ticking because you think about all the
Speaker 4: military intelligence on that island.
Speaker 2: Huge place for harbor, all that stuff. What you find
Speaker 2: like when you like study as much as I have
Speaker 2: love these military bases, they have subsets and some things
Speaker 2: going on, and hospitals and treatment facilities and all kinds
Speaker 2: of stuff going on. So they're not just like pure
Speaker 2: military like you see guys and fatigues who are soldiers.
Speaker 2: They have all kinds of things going on happening in
Speaker 2: all kinds of these military bases. They're not and they're
Speaker 2: not all above board. Fort Bragg is a story in
Speaker 2: itself because there's a lot. I mean, so many people
Speaker 2: die there and go crazy and all kinds of stuff.
Speaker 2: This guy was in a a black rock video with Ruth,
Speaker 2: so they're in a black rock video together. I don't
Speaker 2: know if you guys have seen that, but here's another
Speaker 2: reference to I was.
Speaker 4: Hoping you would mention The Good Girl because it kept
Speaker 4: coming into my mind when you made your other presentations.
Speaker 6: Have you seen this movie?
Speaker 2: No? Yeah?
Speaker 4: The Jake Jillenhall character as a writer. She has an
Speaker 4: affair with him Jennifer Aniston, and he's obsessed with Catcher
Speaker 4: in the Rye and he ends up taking his own life.
Speaker 6: Oh, in a hotel room at the end of the movie.
Speaker 6: Spoiler alert, this.
Speaker 2: Is this is an interesting movie. Jared Leedo plays Chapman,
Speaker 2: looks like Chapman. The dialogues all from the book and
Speaker 2: from Chapman's life, and it's chapter twenty seven. There's twenty
Speaker 2: six chapters in Caturing the Rye, right, so this is
Speaker 2: chapter twenty seven. I've watched. It's pretty interesting. I've got clips. Well,
Speaker 2: you can watch it on YouTube. One of the interesting
Speaker 2: things is Chapman had almost kind of like in his
Speaker 2: hotel rooms, almost like a ritual thing like laid out
Speaker 2: on his dressers, and one of them was the Wizard
Speaker 2: of Oz, a known book they used to kind of
Speaker 2: like mind control people. I know, there's all kinds of references.
Speaker 2: It's worth the watch. But he's always carrying the book
Speaker 2: and acting strange. This is getting it.
Speaker 5: Wait, there was a Wizard of Oz thing in Mark
Speaker 5: David Chapman's room. Yes, that is so interesting to me
Speaker 5: because it's like you were saying about like like Crowley
Speaker 5: and the OZ thing.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's a it's a correspondence. Oz is in Jamatrius
Speaker 2: seventy seven and seventy seven is a huge number for Croley.
Speaker 2: Right nine eleven seventy flight seventy seven, I.
Speaker 5: Covered a whole I did a whole episode on the
Speaker 5: Wizard of Oz because there's so much like MK stuff
Speaker 5: in there. I think it was probably one of the
Speaker 5: original But if you think about that, it's like before
Speaker 5: catching the Rye, you had the Wizard of Oz, right,
Speaker 5: I think mccult themes.
Speaker 2: I think you're right. I think you're absolutely right. Also,
Speaker 2: like missing pieces of their personality too, right, so it
Speaker 2: goes into steeply into psychology, like there's archetypes and missing things,
Speaker 2: the red shoes and this association transfer, dissociation, alternate realms, right,
Speaker 2: so almost like they're in a dream state or a
Speaker 2: trance state, Like doesn't she wake up in her bed
Speaker 2: like and it was all a dream or something like that.
Speaker 5: Yeah, yeah, yeah, Well you know, William, I, you know
Speaker 5: this could be its own episode. But I just want
Speaker 5: to mention to you since we've already brought up the
Speaker 5: Shining a few times. I found so many Wizard of
Speaker 5: Oz references in the Shining, It's it's astronomical how many
Speaker 5: Wizard of Oz references are in the Shining. And then
Speaker 5: we're bringing The Catcher and the Rye into it too,
Speaker 5: and it's like that cannot be an accident that both
Speaker 5: of those books are referenced so much in that mode.
Speaker 2: No, no, I don't think so.
Speaker 5: I think that that dress that she's wearing that looks
Speaker 5: like Phoebe's dress, it also looks like Dorothy's dress because
Speaker 5: it's got like the long sleeve under like the you know,
Speaker 5: weird jumper thing, just like what Dorothy had on. I
Speaker 5: don't know, it's it's it's interesting the comparison between the two.
Speaker 2: The guy was a genius man. He was layering his
Speaker 2: films with everything, like he was looking at it like
Speaker 2: a Renaissance artist, like I gotta get everything in this frame.
Speaker 5: Yeah.
Speaker 2: So and I mean the we know his meticulousness and
Speaker 2: all that stuff. So hold, you know, just like the
Speaker 2: names are interesting. The call, the call is the call
Speaker 2: was believed to bestow second sight, of ability to see
Speaker 2: into the future. So it's there's no question Holding Caulfield
Speaker 2: is important. This is ken Silva. JD. Cash lists he
Speaker 2: studied a lot of this Ruth guy and how strange
Speaker 2: he is. This is like a Chapman figure. I mean
Speaker 2: it's really dark, like this is not long ago. I
Speaker 2: think he tried to kill Trump. And what June of
Speaker 2: twenty twenty four I forgot.
Speaker 6: No June was the first one. I think that that
Speaker 6: was Butler, Yeah, September.
Speaker 2: Right, think right, this is interesting, Surge Sowthrope. This is Mangione.
Speaker 2: The NFPD cames and found the CEO of shooters backpack
Speaker 2: near the carousel in Central Park, exactly where the carousel
Speaker 2: catcha in the riot ends. He went into Central Park,
Speaker 2: so he traveled all the way from O Wahoo. Mangione
Speaker 2: traveled from O Wahoo for some strange reason, Uh kills
Speaker 2: this guy at seven am. Nobody knows really what I mean.
Speaker 2: He has it rational it's escapes into Central part missing
Speaker 2: right before his parents purported missing. Huge personality change. This
Speaker 2: guy was the top of his class, almost like Holden
Speaker 2: call Field out of prep school, right, and then he
Speaker 2: gets busted in Pennsylvania where the fake prep school is
Speaker 2: Like these sinks are really something else, Like you just
Speaker 2: kind of wonder somebody else writing this or what the
Speaker 2: heck's going on.
Speaker 4: It also makes me think of the Aurora shooting too,
Speaker 4: because he was very similar in his academics and then
Speaker 4: he did the thing that Chapman did. He just kind
Speaker 4: of sat down and waited for the police to get.
Speaker 5: There, because because it's like Manchurian candidate stuff. It's like
Speaker 5: you do your do and then you sit down and
Speaker 5: you wait for.
Speaker 2: The police to come get you because you're supposed to
Speaker 2: be Yeah, you're supposed to be the one that gets caught.
Speaker 2: These yeah, these are Patsy's. This is Patsy Creed. I
Speaker 2: don't think.
Speaker 6: I don't know.
Speaker 2: I question how many of these people actually come into
Speaker 2: the crime. I think that BANNGEONI did seem.
Speaker 5: To do it.
Speaker 2: Travis Bickle, we mentioned him earlier as the inspiration to Hinckley.
Speaker 2: Who's the inspiration Arthur Bremer. We're gonna get to Bremer.
Speaker 2: Bremer attempted to assassinate about Alabama Governor George Walash in
Speaker 2: seventy two. He had a diary. We're gonna get to
Speaker 2: his diary because what does he do. Two weeks before
Speaker 2: he attempts to kill Bremer, He goes to a movie theater,
Speaker 2: walks and watches a clockwork orange and identifies with Alex
Speaker 2: de large stop it in his own diary crazy, which
Speaker 2: it's called the Assassin's Diary.
Speaker 6: You know that I learned that.
Speaker 5: From William William you're killing me right here.
Speaker 2: Yeah, no, this is a crazy stuff. Yeah, So Schrader's
Speaker 2: influenced by him. And then this kind of writing style
Speaker 2: like to do it today our language is so intense
Speaker 2: and you know, but back then these were kind of
Speaker 2: like really scandalous stuff. Flitty give her the time, ne
Speaker 2: King Phony, Prince Rubber. Next knowing I found a reference
Speaker 2: to the Cold War. This is the CAA in the
Speaker 2: Cold War. I was always trying to find some kind
Speaker 2: of intel. There's clearly intel, like Salinger's intel, like he's
Speaker 2: a military intelligence. But there is a like one section
Speaker 2: of this cultural quote where the CIA is influencing arts
Speaker 2: and letters. There is something here where this cutout the
Speaker 2: encounter says urging Spender to open a literary pages to
Speaker 2: a new generation of American writers like sal Bello, JD. Salinger, Truman, Capodi, Trulean, Grause.
Speaker 2: So they're letting their kind of curating these kind of
Speaker 2: new writers like Salinger. That's definitely CIA influenced. So this
Speaker 2: is Bremer, this is the guy who inspired Travis Brickell.
Speaker 2: He's taking a shot at George Wallace. I think he
Speaker 2: was a competitor for Nixon, if I remember correctly, on
Speaker 2: the second term. So, uh, there's an interest. And that's
Speaker 2: like that scene that I showed at the very beginning,
Speaker 2: this kind of motif of the bullet to the head. Right,
Speaker 2: there's Bremer, Wallace is on the ground. This is a
Speaker 2: quote directly from Bremer's diary. Milwaukee saw clockwork orange and
Speaker 2: thought about getting Wallace all through the picture, fantasizing myself
Speaker 2: as the Alex or Alec, but without my brothers, just
Speaker 2: a little of the old ultra violence. I've decided Wallace
Speaker 2: would have the honor of it. What would you call it?
Speaker 2: So he's watching Clark.
Speaker 5: The use of the word ultra violence, no doubt.
Speaker 2: So. Bremer's diary was a primary inspiration for screenwriter's Prostiators
Speaker 2: character Travis Pickell, played by Robert de Niro in seventy six.
Speaker 2: I got the dates from and then Taxi Driver in
Speaker 2: turn would be the inspiration for John Inkley. But there
Speaker 2: is some kind of weird intelligence thing around Bremer, and
Speaker 2: that is in his memoir Howard Hunt, Who's all over
Speaker 2: the place. There was an idea that he went to Milwaukee,
Speaker 2: which Bremer was from, with playing hats to enter and plant.
Speaker 2: The campaign literature of Democratic contender George mccovery and Hunt
Speaker 2: recalls he was highly skeptical of a plan to the
Speaker 2: apartment being guarded by the FBI, but investigated the feasibility
Speaker 2: of it anyway. Jike Gordon Leedley also to details or
Speaker 2: discusses the plan in his memoir. So there's Mangione. He
Speaker 2: becomes kind of an hero. He has his own manifesto
Speaker 2: on one page. But who does he like? He admires
Speaker 2: un obamber ted Kaczinski. Right, he admires that he actually
Speaker 2: this is a real review of Kazinski's industrial society in
Speaker 2: its future. Right, So he says he was a violent individual,
Speaker 2: rightfully imprisoned who named innocent people. While these actions tend
Speaker 2: to be characterized as those of as a crazy ledite
Speaker 2: interesting use the words that's sophisticated vocabulary to actually know
Speaker 2: what a lud eye is. However, they are more accurately
Speaker 2: seen as tho as an extreme political revolutionary, a take
Speaker 2: I found online that I think is interesting. He had
Speaker 2: the balls to recognize that peaceful protest has gotten us
Speaker 2: absolutely nowhere, and at the end of the day, he's
Speaker 2: probably right. Oil barons haven't listened to any environmental the lists,
Speaker 2: but they feared him. Zinski right, we get into Kansiski
Speaker 2: Kazinski here in a minute. There's so much to the stir.
Speaker 2: We're not being told he wasn't a customer of United Healthcare?
Speaker 2: So why what's his motivation to come out of some
Speaker 2: kind of weird like modern new age commune commune in
Speaker 2: Oahu and travel across the country and show up and
Speaker 2: kill this guy formerly very successful, he was very sophisticated.
Speaker 2: I forgot where you. I think he went to UPenn
Speaker 2: like riv League, and then like came to the Bay
Speaker 2: Area to be like a VC guy, a venture capital
Speaker 2: and then all of a sudden he walks out and
Speaker 2: wants to ruin his life by killing a CEO.
Speaker 5: What and so he was not even a member of
Speaker 5: United Healthcare?
Speaker 2: Correct?
Speaker 3: So what was this?
Speaker 8: What was it?
Speaker 5: Can somebody find out if you have blue cross, blue
Speaker 5: shield or something?
Speaker 2: Well, it's weird.
Speaker 5: Did he go after this guy?
Speaker 4: This guy was supposedly debilitated by a back injury and
Speaker 4: his I think it was his landlord of all people
Speaker 4: said yeah, it was so bad.
Speaker 6: He couldn't even he couldn't even have a sex life.
Speaker 4: But then he sits on a greyhound bus with this
Speaker 4: bad back to get to where he's gone, and yeah,
Speaker 4: this is the story that he had a really bad
Speaker 4: back issue, and people tied it to like, I don't.
Speaker 5: Know, he's sitting at McDonald's so and doing all this
Speaker 5: other stuff supposed.
Speaker 2: No, there's no doubt he had a back issue. There's
Speaker 2: X rays of his pins in his back.
Speaker 6: Yet special he had a surgery for a while.
Speaker 4: I mean, I don't know if they've taken his Twitter
Speaker 4: page down, but you could see the pins in fine.
Speaker 2: Yeah, no, it's it's it's real. This is his kind
Speaker 2: of like one page manifesto, which you can read. Somebody
Speaker 2: from four Chan wrote this pretty interesting called forty thousand
Speaker 2: a year private school, has a bachelor's and mattress master's degree,
Speaker 2: no criminal record, vacations, internships, AI like he's involved in
Speaker 2: AI in Northern California. Writes a good resview on ted Ka,
Speaker 2: joins the professional world, no signs of instability, disappears for
Speaker 2: three months, kills you hit CEO at seven am in
Speaker 2: the morning. Like that's what's weird about that shooting, too,
Speaker 2: is how did he know that that dude was walking
Speaker 2: out of his hotel at seven am to be there
Speaker 2: at the right spot. It is it like it's not credible.
Speaker 2: Just something doesn't make sense.
Speaker 6: Was it the School of Wharton you mentioned you Pen, I.
Speaker 2: Think that was it. Yeah, maybe that's where he got
Speaker 2: his masters.
Speaker 4: You know the alumni record there. It's like, I think
Speaker 4: Donald Trump went there, and I think Elon Musk was
Speaker 4: there too.
Speaker 2: Good point, he was in Pani owned property there.
Speaker 6: I almost said Jimmy Buffett, Warren Buffett went there.
Speaker 2: They're relatives. So you're close Warren Buffen and Jimmy Buffet.
Speaker 6: Are they related?
Speaker 2: Yeah, yep. Anyway, this is a lovely guy. Goes back
Speaker 2: to World War Two as well. His name is Murray,
Speaker 2: Henry Murray, and Henry Murray has an interesting background. Nineteen
Speaker 2: thirty eight, Murray was recruited by the US government to
Speaker 2: create a psychological profile of Anol Fhitler. He left temporarily
Speaker 2: to serve in the US Army during the Second World War,
Speaker 2: working with American intelligence agencies to help to assess the
Speaker 2: psychological fitness. So he's working for the army. Salaingers working
Speaker 2: for the army during World War Two. They're overlapping. There's
Speaker 2: and you, and Cameron's there too. There's all these future
Speaker 2: psych people in World War two surrounding Salinger. I haven't
Speaker 2: made direct connections yet, but it's really crazy. So Murray's
Speaker 2: a big boy, and you can read his assessment of Hitler.
Speaker 2: It's called the Mind of Battlefielder. Now it formally was
Speaker 2: called the Langer Report. So here's the other kicker about
Speaker 2: this guy. He's in the OSS at Harvard, he read
Speaker 2: the Psychological Clinic, where he pursued ambitious studies blending psychoanalysis,
Speaker 2: experimental psychology, and behavioral observation. Murray's intellectual curiosity often pushed boundaries.
Speaker 2: His most controversial work began in nineteen fifty nine with
Speaker 2: a study on stress responses involving twenty two Harvard undergraduates,
Speaker 2: including Kaczynski. The experiment was conducted over three years aim
Speaker 2: to understand how individuals with stand psychological pressure, a topic
Speaker 2: perhaps informed by Murray's wartime experience. This is probably mk
Speaker 2: ultur at large, like it's right around the right time
Speaker 2: fifty nine. The study often was like sixteen years old too,
Speaker 2: yeah one like one eighty one, IQ super smart. The
Speaker 2: study often dubbed a multiform assessment's personality development was deceptively
Speaker 2: framed to participants as a benign exploration of beliefs. Kasinsky,
Speaker 2: a brilliant but socially awkward sophomore when he joined in
Speaker 2: nineteen fifty nine, was one of the subjects. Participants were
Speaker 2: asked to write essays detailing their personal philosophies and values.
Speaker 2: They were then used against them in a series of
Speaker 2: grueling interrogations. So you see this interrogation concept of what
Speaker 2: Salinger knew, who was doing interrogations and Murray's in World
Speaker 2: War two doing interrogations of Kazinski, who becomes a hero
Speaker 2: of Mangione. He's literally in this Kazinsky assigned the code
Speaker 2: name Lawful. The experience was particularly intense. Over three years,
Speaker 2: he endured roughly two hundred hours of these sessions. Burge
Speaker 2: himself described the interrogations as venment, sweeping and personally abusive.
Speaker 2: The star contrast to the ethical norms emerging in psychological
Speaker 2: research at the time. Sorry, his IQ was one sixty seven.
Speaker 6: That was.
Speaker 2: Anyway, he was like subject. He came out of a
Speaker 2: Kazinski came out of mk Ultra like Murray's neck deep
Speaker 2: in this stuff and you can read about it here.
Speaker 2: And then Mangioni becomes like Hero Mangioni, like this guy
Speaker 2: who he doesn't make sense, Like his life arc doesn't
Speaker 2: make sense.
Speaker 5: He doesn't make sense at.
Speaker 2: All that he would throw it all away to kick kill. Okay.
Speaker 2: The other thing that's weird is like the reason they
Speaker 2: got him. He's flirting with some girl and he took
Speaker 2: down his mask and he's smiling, like these guys don't
Speaker 2: know the consequences of their action or something like he's
Speaker 2: not serious, but like he's become a cultural hero pre Luigi. Yeah,
Speaker 2: what goes Wilburry. Yeah, so that's it. I don't know
Speaker 2: how much longer you guys want to go on for,
Speaker 2: but that's that's that one.
Speaker 5: Well I've said this a million times, but there are
Speaker 5: theory and I've looked into a couple of them, But
Speaker 5: that Ted Kaczynski was the Zodiac Killer, I've never heard that.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Can you guys see that? Can you see that set
Speaker 2: of slides? Yeah? Yeah, there's Catching the Ride Wanona. I've
Speaker 2: read Catching the Ride twelve hundred times. There's never been
Speaker 2: anything like it.
Speaker 5: Her and her little boyfriend Johnny Depp.
Speaker 2: Ties to the West Memphis three. She was also a
Speaker 2: West Memphis three supporter too.
Speaker 5: I'm sure she loved it.
Speaker 2: This is her wearing a pency prep. This school doesn't exist,
Speaker 2: So this is like an inside kind of joke type thing.
Speaker 2: Frency pep that's a good scruf for boys. Yeah, and
Speaker 2: then she mentions it in this article Winona Forever, writer
Speaker 2: has been trapped. She's did this artless thing by Arroyo
Speaker 2: Roberts of twenty sixteen starts off with a quote from
Speaker 2: Holden Callfield. So fiction comes into reality. The goddamn movies
Speaker 2: they can ruin you. I'm not kidding.
Speaker 4: That Winona Forever is the tattoo that Johnny Depp had
Speaker 4: and then he had to make it Whino Forever when
Speaker 4: they broke her father.
Speaker 2: In Last Tim Larry right there with the MK Ultra
Speaker 2: lsd CIA stuff. Look at the eyeballs here, the even
Speaker 2: the visuals are creepy on this At seventeen when NOA
Speaker 2: writer underlined those words by holding Callfield in one of
Speaker 2: her two copies of Catcher in the rite she was
Speaker 2: carrying with her. Me and Holden are like this team,
Speaker 2: she said. Writer has since referred more than once to
Speaker 2: date J. D. Salader's magnum and Augustus as her bible,
Speaker 2: and since mentioned more than once she has read it
Speaker 2: about fifty times. Well, that's not what you told be.
Speaker 2: And when she was nineteen, her boyfriend Johnny Deppit's Time,
Speaker 2: gave her an auction bought Christmas card with South's signature
Speaker 2: on it. At twenty, Riders still took Catcher in the
Speaker 2: Rye wherever she went as a kind of adult pacifier.
Speaker 4: Okay, that's like the character of Mel Gibson played in
Speaker 4: a conspiracy theory.
Speaker 6: He said he never read it, but he always had
Speaker 6: it with him.
Speaker 2: At age twenty seven, Writer was still praying at the
Speaker 2: altar of the Prep school Hero. That year, she showed
Speaker 2: Vogue magazine and Tiffany frame she had received it as
Speaker 2: a gift from a friend. One side held a picture
Speaker 2: of her in nineteen ninety to age nineteen, black clad sunglasses,
Speaker 2: slumped on a couch, giving the finger. The other held
Speaker 2: a page from Catchering the Rye, the one in which
Speaker 2: Holden sees fu on the wall. This is the trigger word,
Speaker 2: the F word on the wall of his ten year
Speaker 2: old sisters school quote. I think even if I ever
Speaker 2: die and they stick me in the cemetery and I
Speaker 2: have a tombstone and all it'll say, holding call field
Speaker 2: on it, then what year I was born and what
Speaker 2: year I died? And then right under it it'll say
Speaker 2: f you. The other thing. He's obsessed with death and violence.
Speaker 2: Like it's not a positive kid anyway. She's confessed to
Speaker 2: stealing interesting bio. Both assassins like Ruth and the crooks
Speaker 2: guy whoever? He was both in a black Rock commercial together.
Speaker 2: How what's the likeliest of that? Like, it just goes
Speaker 2: on and on them. There was a discussion on Rogan
Speaker 2: and Musk, like all these insane details. This is a former,
Speaker 2: former normally looking guy like button down Ryan Ruth won
Speaker 2: a law enforcement oscar for helping any police investigation. You know,
Speaker 2: this was him. And then this is like all kinds
Speaker 2: of ties. How does he get the money to travel
Speaker 2: around Ryan Ruth? Oh, he's at Fort Bragg. He has
Speaker 2: his own doctor. Who's his own doctor? This woman, doctor
Speaker 2: Sue Kim. What's her? What's her CV? We're looking for
Speaker 2: the Rand Corporation. She has a bachelor's in French from Yale,
Speaker 2: masters in the National Public Policy and is it was
Speaker 2: she's like a CIA handler. There were tens of thousands
Speaker 2: of messages between Ryan Ruth and doctor Sue Kim. Is
Speaker 2: this is Cia handler. Ryan, We've even followed doctor Kim
Speaker 2: and she followed back. In fact, she was the second
Speaker 2: person he followed. Doctor Yeah, right there. But Rand is
Speaker 2: researching about total like uh intel cutout type thing. These
Speaker 2: guys are all tied to Fort Bragg. So the two
Speaker 2: guys on top, I think it was Jabbar and Liveelsburger
Speaker 2: both had those suicide I mean killings. One Jabbar drove
Speaker 2: through Bourbon Street in New Orleans and this guy other
Speaker 2: guy was in in Las Vegas and there you have
Speaker 2: all before bu I forgot the name of This is
Speaker 2: Ruth with a famous chef h guy from Spain. I
Speaker 2: forgot his name, Brian. You know Fort Bragg, Livelsburger they
Speaker 2: luckily found like they found his id in this huge firestorm.
Speaker 2: There's questions about whether he was even alive at the time.
Speaker 2: But like, oh, I got all this stuff. I'm building
Speaker 2: drones like he's a drone. He's got all kinds of
Speaker 2: sophisticated stuff. There's emails from him. This guy like there's
Speaker 2: another Green Beret who like analyzed the whole stories Like
Speaker 2: this doesn't make any sense. I don't know if I
Speaker 2: have the time to read it, but like this guy old,
Speaker 2: I'm from Houston, Texas. I've been active in the Muslim
Speaker 2: community for years. Neither I nor anyone I know has
Speaker 2: ever seen or heard of the alleged Bourbon Street attacker.
Speaker 2: Sham said Deed Shabbar, like nobody knows this guy's This
Speaker 2: is extremely fishy sy op question mark.
Speaker 4: Is he the one where the reporter lady got access
Speaker 4: to the house and she walks around in there.
Speaker 2: They think that was crooks, but may be wrong.
Speaker 6: It was either the It was either the Vegas cyber
Speaker 6: truck guy or this guy.
Speaker 2: I don't think so.
Speaker 4: I think it was this guy because they had mentioned
Speaker 4: how he had kind of strayed from his religion, and
Speaker 4: then they go in there. He's got like an altar
Speaker 4: set up with the Quran opened up all his The
Speaker 4: FBI has supposedly already been there. All the bomb making
Speaker 4: chemicals are still spread out. His computer's still there, and
Speaker 4: this weird like valley girl esque reporter got the first
Speaker 4: access to it, and the video just looks so staged.
Speaker 2: I wouldn't be surprised. Here's a guy with like a
Speaker 2: ivy league education, wanting to do porn films or whatever.
Speaker 2: It's not believable. I guess Tony's soprano was obsessed with ducks,
Speaker 2: which makes sense. So it's like the theme of kind
Speaker 2: of dissociation.
Speaker 6: And he goes into impression when they leave his swimming pool.
Speaker 2: That's the tie. That's the tie. And it's about him
Speaker 2: with the psychiatrist, right, he's always getting you know, and
Speaker 2: analyzed or whatever. This is a very recent so Trump says,
Speaker 2: next week you will receive a report about both of
Speaker 2: his assassination attempts, which hasn't come out yet, but there's
Speaker 2: still support. Like Ruth and the other guy crooks, they're
Speaker 2: still kind of trying to track it down. There's been
Speaker 2: other assassinations. There was another one suicide man in the area.
Speaker 2: So all kinds of crazy stuff is going on. This
Speaker 2: guy manager sent something out in February about another dude
Speaker 2: who got close to the Capitol. But yeah, I mean
Speaker 2: it gets crazy. It's this is I'm scratching the surface, man,
Speaker 2: like this is this presentation would have been doue in
Speaker 2: ninety minutes. Like I can bring out some more like
Speaker 2: video or whatever. I don't know how much time you
Speaker 2: guys got here's here's trump. I mean you have to
Speaker 2: remember so, like the guy Bremer who's talking about this,
Speaker 2: like clockwork, Orange is about behavioral modification, right. They take
Speaker 2: Alex to Large as wild guy and put him through
Speaker 2: the Ludovic mac method to try to change his personality.
Speaker 2: I mean we even watch the sequence. It's really something else.
Speaker 2: I hope you're not on YouTube. They probably get all
Speaker 2: pissed off.
Speaker 6: That's all right, she's not and I'm just waiting to
Speaker 6: get the boot.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm giving up. Let me see if I can
Speaker 2: figure this out. Go to tabs, new tab. I just
Speaker 2: don't understand about feelings.
Speaker 8: You have to be cured horrible. Yeah, violence is a
Speaker 8: very horrible thing. That's what you're learning now, your body's learning.
Speaker 2: I just don't understand about feeling sick way I did.
Speaker 2: I never used to feel sick before. I used to
Speaker 2: feel like they're very opposite. I mean, doing it or
Speaker 2: watching it. I used to feel real on the show.
Speaker 8: You felt ill this afternoon because you're getting better. You see,
Speaker 8: when we're healthy, we respond to the presence of the
Speaker 8: hateful with fear and nausea. You're becoming healthy, that's all.
Speaker 8: By this time tomorrow you will be healthier still.
Speaker 9: And I had truly done my best. It was the
Speaker 9: next day, brothers, and I had truly done my pest
Speaker 9: morning and afternoon to play it their way and sit
Speaker 9: like a horror show cooperative Malchik in the chair of
Speaker 9: torture while they flashed nasty bits of ultra violence on
Speaker 9: the screen, though not on the soundtrack my brothers, the
Speaker 9: only sound being music. Then I noticed, in all my
Speaker 9: pain and sickness, what music it was that.
Speaker 2: Like cracked and boomed. It was Ludwig fan ninth Symphony,
Speaker 2: fourth movement.
Speaker 6: It's not back, this is said, that's a sad This
Speaker 6: is sad sin.
Speaker 2: What's all this about?
Speaker 5: Sin?
Speaker 8: Using about big bad?
Speaker 2: You don't answer anymore.
Speaker 8: The tal just throw music. Are you referring to the
Speaker 8: background school, Yes, that they do before.
Speaker 6: Yes, so you're keen on music.
Speaker 1: Yes, can't be help.
Speaker 2: He is the punishment god, nor to be pleased.
Speaker 8: I'm sorry.
Speaker 2: This is where your around good left the bad.
Speaker 6: And that's for a while.
Speaker 2: It's stop fair, it's stop.
Speaker 4: I should feel ill here, loveling lovely, not with bad.
Speaker 4: You must take your chance, by the choice has been
Speaker 4: all your.
Speaker 9: You need to take any further, son, you prove to
Speaker 9: me the alls unto violence.
Speaker 6: And killing is wrong, wrong, and terribly wrong. I've loved
Speaker 6: my lesson, sir.
Speaker 2: I see no one I've never seen before. I'm cured.
Speaker 7: Praise God.
Speaker 3: You're not cured yet.
Speaker 5: Bye.
Speaker 4: But first, missus, I see that it's wrong.
Speaker 9: It's wrong because it's slight against society.
Speaker 2: It's wrong because everybody has the.
Speaker 9: Right to live, be happy without being to chop the night.
Speaker 2: No, no, boy, you really must leave it to us
Speaker 2: and be cheerful about it. Listening apart night now you
Speaker 2: will be a free man. And then that sequence he
Speaker 2: like basically starts licking boots and stuff like that. I
Speaker 2: don't know if you remember that, but strange days. Do
Speaker 2: you want to watch the one on Trump and his assassins.
Speaker 2: He's mentioning his assassins. I don't know how well how
Speaker 2: well informed Trump is, but he seems to want to
Speaker 2: get im gonna put this thing in the tap. He
Speaker 2: seems to want to get to the bottom of things.
Speaker 2: M let's see, sure.
Speaker 1: Trump, I think, and uh, they've got a screw loose.
Speaker 1: They've got a screw loose.
Speaker 10: About a month ago or so, you said they were
Speaker 10: going to brief you on what happened, what they know
Speaker 10: the investigation, has that happened, Is there anything you can
Speaker 10: share with us? And maybe there should be a commission,
Speaker 10: maybe there should be something else.
Speaker 1: So it is, it has happened, and they don't seem
Speaker 1: to think there was anything other than abnormal people. And
Speaker 1: I'll assume that's true. They do have a case coming up,
Speaker 1: the case that a lot of people don't talk about.
Speaker 1: But it's coming up really sort of a third case,
Speaker 1: I guess you'd say, And so we'll see how that
Speaker 1: one works out.
Speaker 2: But you know, it's a dangerous profession being president.
Speaker 1: If you look race car drivers one in one, think
Speaker 1: of this, one tenth of one percent, bull riders, one
Speaker 1: tenth of one percent. Presidents. I won't tell you the number,
Speaker 1: but it's big.
Speaker 2: It's a dangerous profession.
Speaker 1: Why didn't you tell me that? You could have told
Speaker 1: me this, please, This would be assassin crooks had.
Speaker 2: What's the actual number of presidents in the United States
Speaker 2: who've been assassinated? One out of four? One on eight?
Speaker 2: Is it that high? It's high, it's high, or attempt
Speaker 2: certainly attempted assassination. I think they all get attempted, but
Speaker 2: like McKinley Lincoln, I know that Roosevelt took a bullet
Speaker 2: but survived. Kennedy obviously attempted assassination on.
Speaker 5: Reagan Garfield Garfield, Garfield got shot at a train station
Speaker 5: or something like that.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's a rough job anyway. That's basically my presentation.
Speaker 2: There's a lot there, I mean, but there's the connections
Speaker 2: to this book are incredible, and I probably have to
Speaker 2: read it again and go wow, because I think there's
Speaker 2: just a lot more in there that I didn't notice.
Speaker 2: But like Joe Atwell goes into the pedophilia and the
Speaker 2: mason masonry right, which I mean, Pike is an obviously
Speaker 2: nod to masonry, but he goes down at the National
Speaker 2: History Museum holding call Field goes down and there's an
Speaker 2: Egyptian theme through the entire book, which is the direct
Speaker 2: tie to occultism in masonry and stuff like that.
Speaker 5: There was a few things I wanted to mention too.
Speaker 5: I wrote it down in my notes so I wouldn't forget.
Speaker 5: But I think I might have found the same guy
Speaker 5: you're talking about that talks about all the masonry and
Speaker 5: catcher in their eyes. I think it was him because
Speaker 5: he said that he uses the word phony thirty three
Speaker 5: times in the book.
Speaker 2: So there's numbers. God, I didn't notice that. Oh yeah.
Speaker 5: And then there's a character named Selma Thermer in the book,
Speaker 5: and there is a Masonic lodge named Selma, the same
Speaker 5: first name as the character. And there was a snippet
Speaker 5: that they put in there said July eighteen seventy six,
Speaker 5: it would it was agreed that the lower rooms of
Speaker 5: the lodge building be used for school purposes. Founded in
Speaker 5: the year eighteen eighty eight. Isn't that the same year
Speaker 5: that they founded the prep school, the one in the
Speaker 5: in the.
Speaker 2: Book, the fictional one. I can go back, didn't didn't
Speaker 2: wasn't there a picture of what's her face with the
Speaker 2: yea date? Boys?
Speaker 5: Oh yeah, I wrote it down. It is the name
Speaker 5: of a Masonic lodge that founded a school in July
Speaker 5: eighteen eighty eight. This happens to be the same year
Speaker 5: that the fictional school, Pency Prep was founded.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's right, that's right, Yeah, that's the name.
Speaker 5: Selma is literally a Masonic school that was founded in
Speaker 5: the same year Pency Prep was founded. It's also the
Speaker 5: same year. And I know this is like not related,
Speaker 5: but kind of. It's the same year that Jack the
Speaker 5: Ripper Murders began, eighteen eighty. Wow, No, I thought that
Speaker 5: was cool. And also her last name them Selma's the Thermer.
Speaker 5: It Thermer is some kind of a chisel tool that's
Speaker 5: used by bricklayers. Wow. So that last name was definitely
Speaker 5: not an accident. And there was something in there about
Speaker 5: when he was in the military. He knew these two
Speaker 5: guys that were working on Why didn't I put it
Speaker 5: in my notes? Oh, they were working on neuro linguistic
Speaker 5: programming and he was he had like a friendship with
Speaker 5: these guys in the military that we're working on this,
Speaker 5: and he himself was used for his language skills in
Speaker 5: interrogating prisoners. They speculate that he used this neuro linguistic
Speaker 5: programming when he wrote the book program or Program to
Speaker 5: Go Katherine.
Speaker 2: It's kind it should be maybe that's title, right, Yeah,
Speaker 2: that's interesting. They mentioned Thermer right at the very beginning
Speaker 2: of the book. It's literally within the first page and
Speaker 2: eighteen eighty eight. Since eighteen eighty eight, we have been
Speaker 2: molding boys into splendid, clearthinking young men. That's the irony
Speaker 2: is that he comes out of there. He's not splendid
Speaker 2: clear thinking at all.
Speaker 5: Right, Yeah, so those were just some things I threw
Speaker 5: in my notes because I think I found the same
Speaker 5: person that you were talking about that talks about all
Speaker 5: those Masonic ties.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think it's out well.
Speaker 5: But it does make you wonder though, because of all
Speaker 5: the Laurel Canyon stuff and like their parents being military
Speaker 5: and stuff like that. Like this guy's military. He has
Speaker 5: friends who are working on this neuro linguistic programming, and
Speaker 5: then he writes this book while he's in a mental hospital.
Speaker 5: So I mean, basically, it's a book to get you
Speaker 5: in the state of someone who is a CIA neural
Speaker 5: linguistic mental basiit.
Speaker 2: Yes, I think you're right. I think that's the dark
Speaker 2: subtext anything that's supported by George Bush, who knows all
Speaker 2: this culture creation CIA stuff. I think you got to
Speaker 2: you gotta know that there's some darkness intentional, like he
Speaker 2: was always pulling these stunts. He's a very malevolent figure.
Speaker 2: And I mean we added to Bill Gates and stuff
Speaker 2: like that. But yeah, I think that this is it's
Speaker 2: not I don't think you have to look at the
Speaker 2: cultural subtext of where this book came out of because
Speaker 2: it ties in to Kinsey, there's no question about it.
Speaker 4: I have a little theory about the end of the
Speaker 4: book because it almost just skips ahead from chapter twenty
Speaker 4: five to chapter twenty six, and a lot has happened
Speaker 4: that you don't know about. And I think it's because
Speaker 4: Holden hasn't really come to grips with the fact that
Speaker 4: he murdered his family. And I think that the ducks
Speaker 4: represent his family, like he can't understand why the ducks
Speaker 4: are gone. And in that's in your slides, you had
Speaker 4: the alternate cover. It's got him wearing his killing hat
Speaker 4: with a cigarette and you can see the smoke is
Speaker 4: in the shape of ducks. And I think that was
Speaker 4: just like they're trying to get him to remember he's
Speaker 4: talking to a psychoanalyst in chapter twenty six. Chapter twenty
Speaker 4: six is like two pages long, and one of the
Speaker 4: last lines of the book is don't ever tell anybody anything.
Speaker 4: If you do, you start missing everybody.
Speaker 6: And I think the.
Speaker 5: Last line of the book, yeah, what so he's got
Speaker 5: he's got missing time, like he's got venturing candidate stuff going.
Speaker 6: Yeah, that's what it seems like to me, Like.
Speaker 5: He murdered his family did forgot he did it, and then.
Speaker 6: Just yeah, like he had disassociated at that.
Speaker 4: Oh my god, because in chapter twenty five is the
Speaker 4: carousel with Phoebe. But one of the last thing she
Speaker 4: does is he asks her if she wants to wear
Speaker 4: his hat, the killing hat, and he says no or
Speaker 4: she says no, and then he puts it on and
Speaker 4: just sits there in the rain. And then it goes
Speaker 4: forward and he's in somewhere talking to psychoanalyst who trained.
Speaker 2: In a place of long halways. Like it's it's two pages.
Speaker 2: You can read all of chapter twenty six. This is it.
Speaker 2: It's interesting because this is where he has no conclusions
Speaker 2: about the narrative. He just told you twenty six. That's
Speaker 2: all I'm going to tell about. I could probably tell
Speaker 2: you what I did after I went home, and how
Speaker 2: I got sick and all, and what school I'm supposed
Speaker 2: to go into next fall after I get out of here,
Speaker 2: But I don't feel like it. I really don't. That
Speaker 2: stuff doesn't interest me too much right now. A lot
Speaker 2: of people, especially this one psychoanalyst guy they have here,
Speaker 2: keeps asking me if I'm going to apply myself when
Speaker 2: I go back to school next September. It's such a
Speaker 2: stupid question, in my opinion. I mean, how do you
Speaker 2: know what you're gonna do till you do it? The
Speaker 2: answer is you don't. I think I am, But how
Speaker 2: do I know? I swear it's a stupid question. dB
Speaker 2: isn't as bad as the rest of them, but he
Speaker 2: keeps asking me a lot of questions too. He drove
Speaker 2: over last Saturday with his English babe that's in this
Speaker 2: new picture he's writing. She was pretty affected but very
Speaker 2: good looking. Anyway, one time when she went to the
Speaker 2: ladies room all the way the hell down in the
Speaker 2: other wing. DBI, that's his brother. Ask me what I
Speaker 2: thought about all the stuff I just finished telling you about.
Speaker 2: I didn't know what the hell to say. If you
Speaker 2: want to know the truth, I don't know what to
Speaker 2: think about it. I'm sorry I told so many people
Speaker 2: about it. All I know is I sort of miss
Speaker 2: everybody I told about, even old Stratt later and Aclee
Speaker 2: for instance. I think I even missed that goddamn Maurice,
Speaker 2: that's the pimp. It's funny. Don't ever tell anybody anything.
Speaker 2: If you do, you start missing anybody. Everybody, so that's
Speaker 2: like I think he's saying he really doesn't miss him
Speaker 2: when he's with him, Like they're also just non they're
Speaker 2: not meaningful to him.
Speaker 5: That's Mike, like a true psychopath.
Speaker 2: Psycho.
Speaker 5: I remember people reading this book when I was in school,
Speaker 5: and I've always been more of like I wanted to
Speaker 5: read like Harry Potter and stuff, like I was like
Speaker 5: fantastical books. And somebody described this book to me and
Speaker 5: they were like, oh, you'll love it. It's about this
Speaker 5: and this, And I was like, that sounds horrible. I
Speaker 5: don't want to read that. It never interested me. I'm
Speaker 5: surprised you even liked it because I didn't like it. Oh,
Speaker 5: I was going to say, it just seems so.
Speaker 4: With all this fresh, I want to read it again
Speaker 4: because it is a quick read. But yeah, I don't
Speaker 4: remember thinking it was good and thinking it was weird
Speaker 4: that they pushed.
Speaker 6: This so much in high school mm hmm.
Speaker 5: And they push it through the pop culture, and they
Speaker 5: push it through the assassinations, and they push it through
Speaker 5: There's a reason they want people to read it, that's
Speaker 5: for sure.
Speaker 2: Yeah, the book, it's a cat.
Speaker 6: You're in their eye. They're picking out all the people
Speaker 6: susceptible to MK programming.
Speaker 5: It's a tool that they can use. Well, William, I
Speaker 5: have a proposal for you. Okay, you should watch Girl Interrupted,
Speaker 5: and then we should all three team up and do
Speaker 5: some kind of like breakdown on that because with the
Speaker 5: Wanona connection and the mental hospital connection, there's also a
Speaker 5: bunch of references in that movie to the Wizard of Oz,
Speaker 5: and I think you will find it very fascinating. Now
Speaker 5: that we've covered this topic, maybe like in a couple
Speaker 5: of weeks, we can come back together and maybe all
Speaker 5: three of.
Speaker 2: Us do Yeah, let's do it. Sounds good, sounds good.
Speaker 2: But Britney Murphy's in there, that's like a suspicious Death
Speaker 2: to nineteen ninety nine film.
Speaker 5: Well you know who else is in there, Jared leto Wow,
Speaker 5: So it's got Winona, it's got Angelina, Jolie, Britney Murphy, Jared.
Speaker 5: I mean, I feel like this is an adjacent project
Speaker 5: to Catcher in the Rye.
Speaker 4: Wow.
Speaker 2: Crazy.
Speaker 5: You could have to check it out for you for
Speaker 5: your research.
Speaker 2: They said it's like it took place in filmed in
Speaker 2: some mental institution, state hospital. Is that right? I haven't
Speaker 2: seen it.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 5: You I feel like if you if you get your
Speaker 5: notebook out, it'll be full by the time you're done watching.
Speaker 2: I'll have to check it out.
Speaker 5: It's a movie.
Speaker 2: Okay, No, no, I want to check it out. Yeah,
Speaker 2: it sounds good. That's it. That's all I got. Guys,
Speaker 2: there's a lot there. I think I feel like I
Speaker 2: scratched a surface. There's a lot of other things you
Speaker 2: can talk about, Sir and sur and some of these
Speaker 2: other characters, but I think that these new batch of
Speaker 2: very strange people kind of tie in, at least esthetically
Speaker 2: to these catchers in the root for sure.
Speaker 5: Yeah, it's an interesting phenomenon, for sure. I love your presentation.
Speaker 5: By the way. Awesome.
Speaker 2: I'm good. I'm glad you like it.
Speaker 5: I was caught on a few things that you said
Speaker 5: in mind Blown.
Speaker 2: Actually, yeah, it's pretty crazy. It's pretty pretty crazy.
Speaker 4: It seems like it's just kind of spiraling out and
Speaker 4: you're just going to keep adding more to it.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, it gets it's important. According it just keeps
Speaker 2: stretching out. There's no question about it. So there's there's
Speaker 2: tons to learn and add. But like, it just shows
Speaker 2: how this book has permeated our culture and assassinations and
Speaker 2: like people's interested I mean, sixty five million books. That's
Speaker 2: an industry. Think. I mean, if each book is ten
Speaker 2: bucks a pop, or even five bucks a pop, it's
Speaker 2: a lot of money rolling around wherever it's going. I
Speaker 2: don't know. I gotta run, all right, Thanks, William, Send me,
Speaker 2: send me the send me the audio video got till
Speaker 2: next time, till the girl interrupted me. Yeah, the moving
Speaker 2: and Seeing plan.
Speaker 5: We cant in songs, the moon and sing.
Speaker 3: We can in song.
Speaker 4: We can't.
Speaker 2: Him everything him st