Speaker 1: What's up, everyone, and welcome to another episode of the
Epstein Chronicles. In this episode, we're going to dive right
back in to the Michael Thomas interview with the OIG Inspectors. Question,
so what's your understanding of how Epstein died? Thomas, it's
been two years he died from hanging? Question? So do
you believe he died from hanging? Do you believe he
died from someone trying to murder or someone hurting him?
Do you believe that he died from a medical response Thomas,
I'm not medical professional. I don't know. I've seen so
many things, and I'm faced with so many things. They
just said that he died from a hanging. Question and
being the first responder to the person in there, do
you believe that is how he died? Now, because you
said again previously when I was asking you, I don't
know if he was alive or dead. Do you believe
he died from hanging? Thomas? I never believe he died.
I don't believe the conspiracy that somebody snuck into the
jail cattlepult. Did Mitchell just answer the questions Thomas? Yes
or no? Thomas? Oh? No, I mean yes, I believe
he died from hanging. Question. Do you believe he died
from hanging? All right? And do you believe that Epstein
took his own life? Thomas yes question. Did anyone else
take Epstein's life? Thomas no question. No, did anyone assist
Epstein and taking his life? Thomas, uh huh, no question.
Did Noel take Epstein's life? Thomas no question. These are
questions that we just have to ask because you guys
were the first to be there, and you guys were
the ones on duty. Thomas, I'm here with you. Question.
Did Noel assist Epstein and taking his life? Thomas no question.
Did you assist Epstein with taking his life? Thomas no question.
Did you take Epstein's life? Thomas no question. Did you
have any part in Epstein's death? Thomas no question. Prior
to Epstein dying, did you do you have any communication, verbal, electronic, handwritten,
or otherwise with anyone BOP staff members, or otherwise, civilians, inmates,
anybody about the safety and well being of Epstein? Thomas
no question. Prior to Epstein dying, did you have any communication, verbal, electronic, handwritten,
or otherwise with anyone BOP staff members, or otherwise so civilians, inmates,
anybody about the death of Epstein or taking Epstein's life?
Thomas no question. Did anyone ever offer you anything such
as something of value or favors with regard to harming
Epstein or taking his life? Thomas, no question. Did anyone
ever threaten you in exchange for harming Epstein or taking
Epstein's life? Thomas no question. Were any of your family
members Thomas no, absolutely not. Question. So now we're getting
more back into the administrative stuff. Why wasn't Epstein And
does a signed sell on August tenth, twenty nineteen, Thomas,
I don't know. Question are cell rotations? Do they occur
with inmates in the shoe that you have to move
them every certain amount of days? Thomas, yeah, question? All right?
Who's responsible? Thomas, that's the shoe lieutenant. Question that falls
on the shoe lieutenant. Thomas, Yeah, from the shoe lieutenant.
When it falls on the shoe lieutenant to pass down
to the staff members when they're going to do sell
rotations or anything like that. Question all right, Thomas. It's
something that's tracked. If I'm not mistaken, it might be
tracked on the computer. I don't know. Question in the computer.
Who's responsible for making that change in the computer? Thomas,
I don't know. Question. Did you know that Epstein was
not in his assigned sell Thomas, no question, So this
is the first time that you're hearing that Thomas, yes, question,
all right? Is that something that you guys were supposed
to monitor or do when you're in the shoe during
your assignment? Are you supposed to make sure that inmates
are in their assigned cells? Thomas and I come in
at twelve, that's all taken care of. You don't move
anybody at twelve midnight. Question. Yeah, I just didn't know
if that's something that you guys are supposed to like
pay attention to, Like, all right, this guy is supposed
to be in this cell. This guy is supposed to
be in that cell. Thomas. It's seventy something inmates or something.
If fifteen inmates come down on short staff and they
got to move, maybe all fifteen won't get done. So
maybe somebody is in a twenty one day rotation. They're
probably laid over for like five or whatever, a couple days.
But I don't know as far as you're going by
cell rotation, and his cell rotation is up twenty one
days and he hasn't moved there, and he was in
the wrong cell. I don't know that. I don't know.
Question Okay Thomas. Like I said, I'm not in custody.
I wouldn't deal with that question. Okay. So I'm assuming
it's the officers who actually move them physically to a
different cell. Thomas. Yeah. Question who goes into the system
and changes it in the BOP data? Would that be
the officers, Thomas, officers or operation or the shoe lieutenant question? Okay,
but that's nothing that's done at twelve am. Thomas, that's
nothing that's done at twelve am. No, it's not question,
all right. Do you know why pill bottles were found
within Epstein cell? Thomas? No, I do not. Question. Are
inmates allowed to have medication within their cells? Thomas? I'm
sure some are allowed? Yeah, question they're allowed Thomas. I'm
sure that some are allowed medication. I don't know what
medication they need or anything like that. Question. Do you
ever recall seeing a picture I'm showing you with medication
that was in Epstein cell? Do you recall seeing this? Thomas? No? Question,
does that look like something that he would have been
authorized to have with that much medication. Thomas, I don't
know what they are. Question. I don't know that they're
authorized and what they're not authorized. Question. Okay, just because
I showed it to you, can you mind just initially
and dating it? Thomas, I'm sorry, I keep closing this question.
No worries, and so you don't know anything about like
policies are related to what they're authorized or not authorized?
Thomas No question, would that be up to like medical
Thomas medical? Yeah. Question okay, are you familiar just in
general non medical related what inmates are authorized and not authorized? Thomas, No,
I'm not. Question you're not even familiar Thomas. Hmmm. Question
with what they can and can't have in their cells? Thomas, No,
I'm not. No. All right, hold on, I have to interject.
How are you a prison guard and you don't know
what people are allowed to have or not have in
their cells? Question? Do you know if the shoe is
any different than the rest of the institution of what
inmates can and cannot have in their cell? Thomas, yes, absolutely,
I'm sure it's different. I don't know though, because I'm
sure it's different because that's the twenty three on one.
So I'm sure it's different from a regular housing unit.
On there, it'll walk around. Question what's twenty three on
one now? Thomas, they're locked down twenty three hours a
day and then one hour is for wreck. Question. But
as far as what they're allowed to have in their cells, Thomas, No,
I don't know the book version of what they're allowed
and what they're not allowed. Question, So do you know
of other inmates are allowed to have medication in their
cells at this time? Thomas? I don't know. Question You
don't know how many changes of clothings and linen's are
allowed in intimate cell within the shoe Thomas, I don't know. Question.
You don't know, Thomas, that's something that would be done
prior to my shift. Question sure, So does this look
like an exorbitant amount of clothing and linens that are
in mister Epstein's sell in that picture? Thomas, It looks
like a lot, But that could have just been I
don't know what's from the previous inmate that's left over
that they didn't take a stuff like Again, I don't
know the inmate that left they didn't take his linen
out or not, And you can't tell from these pictures
which is ripped up and which is ripped up and
which is not. Most inmates will get a bed sheet,
rip it up and put it up as all types
of stuff that goes on. But I don't know if
that's something doing or not. It has to be broken
down to all right, this is seven sheets, and if
I have seven sheets or something like that, then yes
that's excessive. But other than that, I don't know that
they're supposed to have within what they're not supposed to
have one sheet? I really don't know. Question. Is it
supposed to be a one for one exchange? Thomas? Yeah,
it's one for one. Question, so they're only technically supposed
to have one Thomas. It's two sheets one blanket I think,
or one blanket, one sheet and one towel in one
washcloth question Okay Thomas, And I can't remember the full thing? Question?
And do you Thomas cuts them off. That's not something
that happens on Morning Watch. That's something that happens prior
to the Morning Watch, when I stayed there from twelve
to one question Okay, Thomas, that's not something I have
twelve to one, you don't take the inmates out, and
I don't know and you don't give them anything unless
somebody is coming in off the street. It's already pre
bed was made that you're giving to them to put
this over there, and usually they try to put them
on Gtier single cell until they can find out what
their affiliation is or anything like that. Redacted. Okay, But
to you though, if there's one person in that cell,
does that look like it's too much linen and too
much clothing? Thomas? Like again, I can't tell what's ripped
up and what's not ripped up. Question. Okay, do you
mind just initially and dating these Thomas. Question, I've just
got a question by somebody else. Now, this is somebody
else interjecting. Did the cell look like that when you
walked in? Thomas? I don't remember the clothes and stuff
being on the floor. I don't remember that much linen
being on the floor. Honestly, I couldn't tell you what's there.
I just remember him hanging on his side. Mitchell breaks already.
Question push pause. All right, we're being asked to take
a break, So they take their break and then they
come back. Thomas. Okay, question, and we're showing you the pictures. Thomas, absolutely, question,
did you provide Epstein with additional clothing or Lennon's Thomas,
no question, ever, Thomas, no question. Is that anything that
you would typically happen between the hours that you work? Thomas,
no question. Twelve to eight am Thomas, no question. Okay.
Is providing inmates with extra clothing and Lennon's a security risk? Thomas,
I don't know. I don't know if it's a security
risk or anything like that because I don't know. Question okay.
Question we touched on this, but when inmates are provided linen's,
is it's supposed to be a one for one exchange? Thomas? Yeah?
Question all right? And is that typically what they are
utilizing in order to do things like hanging themselves? Thomas,
I don't know. I really don't know. What's the typical thing.
Question that's what they used in this case, though it
appears Thomas, Yeah, that's what it appears. In this case.
You see the sheet or a shirt, I don't know
what it is. Question Okay, and somebody on suicide Watch,
do you think it's abnormal? Again, you didn't provide the linens,
but do you think it's abnormal if he had extra linens?
If he was someone that was just on suicide Watch, Thomas,
it's not abnormal for someone to have extra linen. Question
it's not, Thomas m question. So if that's supposed to
be a one for one exchange, is that like a
constant problem then at the mcc Thomas in a perfect world,
in a perfect world, it couldn't be. But like I said,
I'm not custody. I'm not always up here like that.
And when as you can see, all the linen and
that stuff is all already done? Question okay, and again
we talked about this briefly, But what material was used
to take Epstein's life in August of twenty nineteen. Thomas,
I don't know what it was. A sheet or a shirt.
I don't know exactly what it was. Question This orange cotton,
which could be either Thomas, a sheet or a shirt.
Question a sheet or a shirt? Okay? Question does this
appear to be what it was that was removed from
mister Epstein? Thomas, it appears to be. Yes. Question Okay,
can you just walk me through like this thing specifically
looks like it's still intact? Thomas, Uh huh? Question did
you have to rip it off or slide it over
his head? Thomas? What are you talking about that was
still intact? Yeah, I took it off his head. I
guess I took it off his head. I don't remember
I did, but I guess I took it off his head.
But like I said, when I ripped it, it was
tied to the other portion of it. That's what I
meant when I said I ripped it off, like just
when I just pulled it off. Question. Okay, so maybe
it could have also been posted that this was part
that's what was actually connected. This is the part that
was possibly ripped Thomas just pushed off. Yeah, like that.
It probably just slipped through or whatever the case may
be through that question. Okay, but you said you ripped
it off, Thomas. Yeah, I ripped it off. I just
ripped it from the piece that's still dangling. Question. You
don't recall actually sliding it, Thomas. I don't recall. If
it's still intact, maybe I did. Question, And again I
don't know that that was what was actually around his neck. Thomas.
I don't know. Question, but that does appear to be
probably what was around his neck. Thomas. Okay, question is
that correct? Thomas? I don't know. Question, you're not exactly sure, Thomas,
I'm not exactly sure. Question, but does this look like
something like you recall when you took it off his head?
Mister Thomas, Yeah, question, all right, just because I showed it,
you want to just initial in date? All right, folks,
we're gonna wrap up right here, and then the next
episode dealing with the topic, we're going to pick up
where we left off. All the information that goes with
this episode can be found in the description box.