WEBVTT

1
00:00:03.759 --> 00:00:06.080
<v Speaker 1>Hello, this is Michael Foley. I am the author of

2
00:00:06.240 --> 00:00:10.640
<v Speaker 1>Why We Kiss Under the Mistletoe Christmas Traditions Explained, and

3
00:00:10.720 --> 00:00:45.320
<v Speaker 1>you are listening to The Doctor Sky Experience on WABC Radio.

4
00:00:46.960 --> 00:00:50.159
<v Speaker 2>Welcome, ladies and gentlemen to the iconic radio show The

5
00:00:50.240 --> 00:00:53.840
<v Speaker 2>Doctor Sky Experience, heard on America's iconic radio station, Talk

6
00:00:53.960 --> 00:00:57.359
<v Speaker 2>Radio seventy seven WABC out of New York City and

7
00:00:57.399 --> 00:01:01.399
<v Speaker 2>around the world, the crown Jewel of Talk great guest

8
00:01:01.479 --> 00:01:03.640
<v Speaker 2>on The Doctor Sky Experience. And as we move into

9
00:01:03.640 --> 00:01:07.400
<v Speaker 2>the Holidays twenty twenty two, who better than a gentleman

10
00:01:07.480 --> 00:01:09.920
<v Speaker 2>named Michael P. Foley to talk about his brand new book,

11
00:01:10.000 --> 00:01:14.400
<v Speaker 2>Why We Kiss under the Missiletoe Christmas Traditions Explain. But

12
00:01:14.519 --> 00:01:17.519
<v Speaker 2>first a little background on our very special guest, and

13
00:01:17.599 --> 00:01:20.400
<v Speaker 2>then a little segue into some of the things that

14
00:01:20.439 --> 00:01:24.000
<v Speaker 2>you probably knew and probably don't know about these great

15
00:01:24.359 --> 00:01:27.640
<v Speaker 2>Christmas traditions. Doctor Michael P. Foley is a Professor of

16
00:01:27.680 --> 00:01:31.319
<v Speaker 2>Patristics in the Great Texts Program at Baylor University, a

17
00:01:31.319 --> 00:01:34.719
<v Speaker 2>professor of theology at the Aquinas Institute, and the author

18
00:01:34.799 --> 00:01:38.439
<v Speaker 2>over four hundred articles and fourteen books, including Drinking with

19
00:01:38.480 --> 00:01:42.439
<v Speaker 2>the Saints, Drinking with Saint Nick Drinking with Your Patron Saints,

20
00:01:42.680 --> 00:01:46.079
<v Speaker 2>and the Politically Incorrect Guide to Christianity. Mike and his

21
00:01:46.120 --> 00:01:50.239
<v Speaker 2>wife Alexandra live in their adopted hometown of Waco, Texas,

22
00:01:50.480 --> 00:01:53.599
<v Speaker 2>where they enjoy spending the Christmas Holidays with their six children,

23
00:01:53.680 --> 00:01:59.319
<v Speaker 2>twelve chickens, two turtles, one dog, and twelve thousand bees.

24
00:02:00.000 --> 00:02:01.400
<v Speaker 2>The name of the book here on the Not to

25
00:02:01.439 --> 00:02:04.879
<v Speaker 2>Sky Experience is Why We Kiss Under the Missiletoe And

26
00:02:04.959 --> 00:02:07.480
<v Speaker 2>a little backstory on the book before we talk with

27
00:02:07.560 --> 00:02:10.919
<v Speaker 2>our special guest. Everyone is Christmas traditions that make the

28
00:02:10.960 --> 00:02:14.840
<v Speaker 2>season so special, but people rarely stop to think about

29
00:02:14.879 --> 00:02:17.280
<v Speaker 2>why they hold these traditions so near and dear to

30
00:02:17.319 --> 00:02:20.599
<v Speaker 2>their hearts. Author of the best selling Drinking with the Saints,

31
00:02:20.599 --> 00:02:23.840
<v Speaker 2>Michael pe Poly delves into the history behind the season's

32
00:02:23.879 --> 00:02:28.400
<v Speaker 2>favorite traditions in Why We Kiss under the Missiletoe, Christmas

33
00:02:28.400 --> 00:02:32.759
<v Speaker 2>traditions explain without a hearty welcome to Michael p. Foly. Michael,

34
00:02:32.759 --> 00:02:35.599
<v Speaker 2>good afternoon and Merry Christmas to you and your family.

35
00:02:35.680 --> 00:02:36.080
<v Speaker 2>How are you?

36
00:02:36.759 --> 00:02:39.080
<v Speaker 1>Thank you so much. Good afternoon and Merry Christmas to

37
00:02:39.120 --> 00:02:39.639
<v Speaker 1>you as well.

38
00:02:40.120 --> 00:02:41.759
<v Speaker 2>Wow, this is the one that knocks it out of

39
00:02:41.800 --> 00:02:44.560
<v Speaker 2>the park. Michael, I know you are really outstanding, and

40
00:02:44.599 --> 00:02:46.199
<v Speaker 2>I know we're looking for the same thing, and I

41
00:02:46.240 --> 00:02:49.080
<v Speaker 2>guarantee it'll happen here because of what's contained in the

42
00:02:49.120 --> 00:02:51.520
<v Speaker 2>books that you write. Drinking with the Saints was awesome,

43
00:02:51.960 --> 00:02:54.319
<v Speaker 2>and so many of my friends that even those that

44
00:02:54.400 --> 00:02:58.960
<v Speaker 2>didn't like adult beverages, they certainly appreciate all the backstory

45
00:02:59.360 --> 00:03:02.360
<v Speaker 2>on these the drinks any correlation to many of the

46
00:03:02.400 --> 00:03:05.039
<v Speaker 2>great science. But we begin this interview, I wanted to

47
00:03:05.039 --> 00:03:07.080
<v Speaker 2>talk about something that I've been talking about, and we've

48
00:03:07.120 --> 00:03:09.960
<v Speaker 2>gotten some scholars who also have talked about some of

49
00:03:09.960 --> 00:03:12.280
<v Speaker 2>the theories. I've been going around the country on our shows,

50
00:03:12.840 --> 00:03:15.400
<v Speaker 2>you know, via radio and technology, talking about what we

51
00:03:15.520 --> 00:03:18.800
<v Speaker 2>believe to be the origins of the Great Star of Bethlehem.

52
00:03:18.840 --> 00:03:21.240
<v Speaker 2>But let's start off, as the book does, with the

53
00:03:21.280 --> 00:03:24.520
<v Speaker 2>origin of Christmas, and let's say the Christmas Star the

54
00:03:24.560 --> 00:03:27.199
<v Speaker 2>wise Men give us a little inspiration as we move

55
00:03:27.240 --> 00:03:31.080
<v Speaker 2>into the season exactly or on insight into this particular

56
00:03:31.159 --> 00:03:34.319
<v Speaker 2>story of how this whole Christmas season got started, at

57
00:03:34.400 --> 00:03:39.800
<v Speaker 2>least from the Bible. As one who studies this deeply, Oh.

58
00:03:39.639 --> 00:03:43.840
<v Speaker 1>My gosh, where to begin. The history of Christmas is

59
00:03:43.879 --> 00:03:49.159
<v Speaker 1>so wonderfully tangled and controversial, but it does make for

60
00:03:49.360 --> 00:03:53.599
<v Speaker 1>a fascinating history. So we do have the infancy narratives,

61
00:03:55.080 --> 00:03:58.479
<v Speaker 1>and there are critics who say the details don't all

62
00:03:58.520 --> 00:04:02.520
<v Speaker 1>add up, the defendants who say, no, you're reading it wrong.

63
00:04:02.599 --> 00:04:04.319
<v Speaker 1>They do add up if you just look at this.

64
00:04:04.520 --> 00:04:08.759
<v Speaker 1>Rather than that, we're still not exactly certain when Jesus

65
00:04:08.879 --> 00:04:12.560
<v Speaker 1>Christ was born. Was it December twenty fifth, was it

66
00:04:12.639 --> 00:04:18.000
<v Speaker 1>some other time? Was it March? I guess the thing

67
00:04:18.040 --> 00:04:21.639
<v Speaker 1>that I learned from doing all the research is, even

68
00:04:21.680 --> 00:04:26.399
<v Speaker 1>if we can't prove a lot of these early Christian beliefs,

69
00:04:27.120 --> 00:04:31.879
<v Speaker 1>nor can we disprove them, maybe it is unlikely that

70
00:04:31.959 --> 00:04:34.720
<v Speaker 1>December twenty fifth was the birthday of Jesus, but it's

71
00:04:34.759 --> 00:04:38.160
<v Speaker 1>not impossible, especially if you read the gospel according to

72
00:04:38.240 --> 00:04:41.720
<v Speaker 1>Luke in a certain way, the chronology could very easily

73
00:04:41.959 --> 00:04:48.600
<v Speaker 1>line up. So we shouldn't naively believe that Jesus was

74
00:04:48.600 --> 00:04:52.600
<v Speaker 1>born on December twenty fifth, but we should just as naively,

75
00:04:53.519 --> 00:04:57.800
<v Speaker 1>just as naively believe that this is just you know,

76
00:04:57.839 --> 00:04:59.920
<v Speaker 1>a myth or a fabricated date.

77
00:05:00.600 --> 00:05:04.000
<v Speaker 2>Interesting a little backstory from you on the three wise Men.

78
00:05:04.079 --> 00:05:05.879
<v Speaker 2>I mean, I've tried the research this as best as

79
00:05:05.920 --> 00:05:07.800
<v Speaker 2>I can, and what I get out of it from

80
00:05:07.800 --> 00:05:11.399
<v Speaker 2>other scholars like yourself, three wise men possibly coming from

81
00:05:11.439 --> 00:05:15.519
<v Speaker 2>say areas like what today is presently Iraq, maybe northern Iran,

82
00:05:15.560 --> 00:05:18.120
<v Speaker 2>and maybe some even say farther out to the east.

83
00:05:18.480 --> 00:05:21.000
<v Speaker 2>What say you as we move forward to talk about

84
00:05:21.040 --> 00:05:23.240
<v Speaker 2>these great Christmas traditions.

85
00:05:23.199 --> 00:05:26.920
<v Speaker 1>I have no idea, you know. Our best guess is

86
00:05:26.959 --> 00:05:31.639
<v Speaker 1>that magi were Zoroastrian priests and scholars, like you said,

87
00:05:31.680 --> 00:05:36.279
<v Speaker 1>from present day Iran. In Iraq. We don't know the number.

88
00:05:37.480 --> 00:05:40.480
<v Speaker 1>In the It just says magi came to visit the

89
00:05:40.480 --> 00:05:44.240
<v Speaker 1>infant Jesus. It doesn't say how many. So in the

90
00:05:44.279 --> 00:05:49.160
<v Speaker 1>Greek Orthodox Church, I believe they hold that twelve magi came.

91
00:05:49.800 --> 00:05:53.399
<v Speaker 1>The West, of course, has this tradition of three magi

92
00:05:54.000 --> 00:05:58.879
<v Speaker 1>who represents the three quote races of the Earth or

93
00:05:58.920 --> 00:06:03.360
<v Speaker 1>the three descent of Noah. And so you have Gasper, Melchior,

94
00:06:03.360 --> 00:06:05.279
<v Speaker 1>and Baltazar coming from different.

95
00:06:05.000 --> 00:06:08.319
<v Speaker 2>Parts of the world exactly. You know. I hope every

96
00:06:08.560 --> 00:06:10.399
<v Speaker 2>talk show host says, I asked you this question, and

97
00:06:10.439 --> 00:06:13.199
<v Speaker 2>believe me, I'm going to ask it to find patristics

98
00:06:13.240 --> 00:06:15.519
<v Speaker 2>to us because I have never and I'm always honest

99
00:06:15.519 --> 00:06:18.079
<v Speaker 2>with the audience and honest with you I've never heard

100
00:06:18.120 --> 00:06:20.639
<v Speaker 2>the term before, but you are the scholar of this

101
00:06:20.800 --> 00:06:24.199
<v Speaker 2>and to fine it so that everybody can understand it.

102
00:06:24.199 --> 00:06:26.839
<v Speaker 1>It is not a well known term, but it's a

103
00:06:26.920 --> 00:06:30.360
<v Speaker 1>pretty simple idea. Patristics is the study of the early

104
00:06:30.560 --> 00:06:35.319
<v Speaker 1>church fathers, and the early church fathers were the great

105
00:06:35.519 --> 00:06:41.079
<v Speaker 1>Christian luminaries from the end of the composition of the Bible.

106
00:06:41.399 --> 00:06:46.560
<v Speaker 1>It's about one hundred AD to maybe seven hundred ADS,

107
00:06:46.560 --> 00:06:51.560
<v Speaker 1>so the first six hundred years of Christianity amazing.

108
00:06:52.480 --> 00:06:54.560
<v Speaker 2>Let's talk a little bit more about Advent. I mean,

109
00:06:54.600 --> 00:06:56.920
<v Speaker 2>I was brought up as a Catholic and follow up

110
00:06:56.959 --> 00:06:58.959
<v Speaker 2>any of the rituals. You know, this isn't about me,

111
00:06:59.079 --> 00:07:01.560
<v Speaker 2>but as an altar boy, I was old enough to

112
00:07:01.639 --> 00:07:03.959
<v Speaker 2>have to in the time period. Back in my time,

113
00:07:04.439 --> 00:07:06.800
<v Speaker 2>the Lamas in Latin was something that I tried very

114
00:07:06.839 --> 00:07:10.079
<v Speaker 2>hard to know and had to recite. But Advent is

115
00:07:10.079 --> 00:07:13.079
<v Speaker 2>so important to the Christian community. Talk about it and

116
00:07:13.120 --> 00:07:16.839
<v Speaker 2>some of the early things like Advent calendars and Advent wraiths.

117
00:07:16.920 --> 00:07:18.680
<v Speaker 2>As we move toward the Christmas.

118
00:07:18.279 --> 00:07:23.800
<v Speaker 1>Season, Advent is a wonderful time. It's a very brackish season,

119
00:07:23.920 --> 00:07:28.319
<v Speaker 1>if you will. It's this strange mix of penance and

120
00:07:28.759 --> 00:07:33.120
<v Speaker 1>jubilation penance because we're getting ready for the Lord and

121
00:07:33.240 --> 00:07:37.480
<v Speaker 1>is coming. Jubilation because the Lord is coming, so we're

122
00:07:37.480 --> 00:07:42.199
<v Speaker 1>both excited and trepidacious. And our Advent customs sort of

123
00:07:42.199 --> 00:07:48.639
<v Speaker 1>reflect that our liturgies have violet vestments, purple vestments, the

124
00:07:48.720 --> 00:07:54.079
<v Speaker 1>gloria is suppressed. There are other sort of signs of sorrow.

125
00:07:54.759 --> 00:07:57.759
<v Speaker 1>But on the other hand, the text themselves and the

126
00:07:57.800 --> 00:08:03.600
<v Speaker 1>customs of Advent are joyful and almost sort of giddy.

127
00:08:04.399 --> 00:08:08.120
<v Speaker 1>Though you mentioned two big customs, the Advent calendar we're

128
00:08:08.160 --> 00:08:11.800
<v Speaker 1>literally counting down the days to when Jesus comes, and

129
00:08:12.079 --> 00:08:16.639
<v Speaker 1>the Advent reef, which is now a very popular symbol

130
00:08:17.519 --> 00:08:23.040
<v Speaker 1>started by Lutherans in Germany and I think the nineteenth century,

131
00:08:23.480 --> 00:08:27.680
<v Speaker 1>but has very quickly spread to Christians of all stripes.

132
00:08:29.439 --> 00:08:31.519
<v Speaker 2>So much to talk abob and so little time to

133
00:08:31.519 --> 00:08:33.759
<v Speaker 2>do it. If you're just joining us, ladies and gentlemen,

134
00:08:33.759 --> 00:08:36.200
<v Speaker 2>we're Janana to have Michael p. Fole, the author of

135
00:08:36.240 --> 00:08:38.720
<v Speaker 2>many books, author of a book that we had him

136
00:08:38.759 --> 00:08:40.840
<v Speaker 2>on and knocked it out of the park as always,

137
00:08:41.320 --> 00:08:43.360
<v Speaker 2>the author of that book Drinking with the Saints. He's

138
00:08:43.360 --> 00:08:45.200
<v Speaker 2>here today to talk with us throughout a brand new

139
00:08:45.279 --> 00:08:48.759
<v Speaker 2>regnary history book that's available wherever good books are sold,

140
00:08:49.519 --> 00:08:51.759
<v Speaker 2>entitledment of the book, or the book entitled I should

141
00:08:51.759 --> 00:08:55.360
<v Speaker 2>say Why we Kiss under the mizzletone Christmas Traditions explained.

142
00:08:55.879 --> 00:08:58.320
<v Speaker 2>We're here to talk about these amazing traditions, many of

143
00:08:58.360 --> 00:09:01.200
<v Speaker 2>which as I read the book, I'm just so amazed by.

144
00:09:01.679 --> 00:09:03.279
<v Speaker 2>As we get in to celebrate the birth of the

145
00:09:03.360 --> 00:09:06.120
<v Speaker 2>Christ Child, here with our very special guests, and you're

146
00:09:06.120 --> 00:09:09.679
<v Speaker 2>listening to the Doctor Sky Experience on America's iconic radio station,

147
00:09:09.759 --> 00:09:13.200
<v Speaker 2>that is Talk Radio seventy seven WABC at New York

148
00:09:13.200 --> 00:09:17.399
<v Speaker 2>City and around the world at WABC radio dot Com,

149
00:09:17.639 --> 00:09:20.600
<v Speaker 2>the crown jewel of Talk radio. Michael, thank you for

150
00:09:20.639 --> 00:09:23.480
<v Speaker 2>spending some time in this pre Christmas edition. As we

151
00:09:23.519 --> 00:09:25.600
<v Speaker 2>move forward to a new year of twenty twenty three.

152
00:09:26.200 --> 00:09:28.480
<v Speaker 2>You know, you describe things like the Jesse tree. Never

153
00:09:28.519 --> 00:09:31.759
<v Speaker 2>heard of it before, describe it. It's something fascinating that people.

154
00:09:32.039 --> 00:09:33.399
<v Speaker 2>It opens up our minds.

155
00:09:34.480 --> 00:09:38.279
<v Speaker 1>The Jesse tree is a relatively recent custom. The idea

156
00:09:38.320 --> 00:09:41.000
<v Speaker 1>behind it is not The idea behind it is the

157
00:09:41.000 --> 00:09:42.360
<v Speaker 1>family tree of Jesus.

158
00:09:42.399 --> 00:09:42.919
<v Speaker 2>What is it?

159
00:09:43.320 --> 00:09:46.720
<v Speaker 1>And of course we get genealogies in the Gospels about

160
00:09:46.720 --> 00:09:51.000
<v Speaker 1>the ancestry of Jesus, but it is a tree or

161
00:09:51.039 --> 00:09:57.039
<v Speaker 1>a bush with different symbols of Jesus's ancestors who is

162
00:09:57.919 --> 00:10:03.200
<v Speaker 1>described ancestors are described as coming from the root of Jesse.

163
00:10:03.679 --> 00:10:08.759
<v Speaker 1>Jesse was King David's father, and so there like the

164
00:10:08.879 --> 00:10:13.600
<v Speaker 1>week before Christmas, you'll start to put these ancestors on

165
00:10:13.840 --> 00:10:17.240
<v Speaker 1>the tree, the Jesse tree, that is, as a way

166
00:10:17.440 --> 00:10:20.879
<v Speaker 1>of building up to the birth of the Messiah.

167
00:10:20.919 --> 00:10:24.000
<v Speaker 2>It's interesting, you know, one of the most powerful chapters

168
00:10:24.039 --> 00:10:25.399
<v Speaker 2>that I get of the book, and all of them

169
00:10:25.440 --> 00:10:28.600
<v Speaker 2>are outstanding, but the story of something that many people

170
00:10:28.679 --> 00:10:31.960
<v Speaker 2>may not recognize, and the predecessor or maybe Santa Claus.

171
00:10:31.960 --> 00:10:34.559
<v Speaker 2>And there's so many iterations, but give us a little

172
00:10:34.600 --> 00:10:37.159
<v Speaker 2>more detailed explanation. And as you described the book in

173
00:10:37.200 --> 00:10:41.919
<v Speaker 2>the book, the real Saint Nicholas of Myra. This is fascinating.

174
00:10:42.320 --> 00:10:45.519
<v Speaker 2>I'm all ears on this one. Michael's Blue Please Well.

175
00:10:45.360 --> 00:10:48.679
<v Speaker 1>I really fell in love with Saint Nicholas of Myra

176
00:10:49.840 --> 00:10:52.720
<v Speaker 1>as a result of researching this book. There are two

177
00:10:52.799 --> 00:10:56.679
<v Speaker 1>chapters on him, one who he is and then two

178
00:10:56.879 --> 00:11:01.320
<v Speaker 1>the legends about him that eventually morphed into anaclause. But

179
00:11:01.480 --> 00:11:05.000
<v Speaker 1>he really was a great man. He was a Catholic bishop,

180
00:11:05.120 --> 00:11:08.679
<v Speaker 1>in present day Turkey in the fourth century, and he

181
00:11:08.799 --> 00:11:12.960
<v Speaker 1>was basically known as the people's champion. This was the

182
00:11:13.039 --> 00:11:18.960
<v Speaker 1>guy who had your back. He protected you from unjust

183
00:11:19.120 --> 00:11:24.120
<v Speaker 1>rulers who imposed heavy taxes from people falsely accusing you

184
00:11:24.200 --> 00:11:29.919
<v Speaker 1>of murder. He's most famously associated with saving three daughters

185
00:11:29.919 --> 00:11:34.200
<v Speaker 1>of a poor man from prostitution by giving them money

186
00:11:34.240 --> 00:11:37.960
<v Speaker 1>to have a dowery for a proper marriage. So he

187
00:11:38.200 --> 00:11:42.559
<v Speaker 1>was this great patron of the little guy. And then

188
00:11:42.639 --> 00:11:47.600
<v Speaker 1>over time his legends only grew and grew and grew,

189
00:11:47.799 --> 00:11:50.480
<v Speaker 1>and there heard some really colorful legends about him from

190
00:11:50.519 --> 00:11:55.279
<v Speaker 1>the Middle Ages. And then the huge shift happened in

191
00:11:55.360 --> 00:12:00.720
<v Speaker 1>the early nineteenth century when within almost ten years he

192
00:12:00.919 --> 00:12:03.159
<v Speaker 1>suddenly morphed into Santa Claus.

193
00:12:03.799 --> 00:12:06.679
<v Speaker 2>Amazing. So it's kind of and I'm being serious, not

194
00:12:06.720 --> 00:12:08.840
<v Speaker 2>to be funny. It's almost like having a court appointed

195
00:12:08.879 --> 00:12:11.000
<v Speaker 2>attorney on your side if you couldn't afford it for

196
00:12:11.039 --> 00:12:14.639
<v Speaker 2>the poor, who would want defend you against the blasphemy

197
00:12:14.679 --> 00:12:17.919
<v Speaker 2>and all kinds of things that were lies, innuendos and

198
00:12:17.960 --> 00:12:20.320
<v Speaker 2>what have you. In other words, a man who cared

199
00:12:20.320 --> 00:12:23.600
<v Speaker 2>about people beyond what most people would ever imagine.

200
00:12:23.639 --> 00:12:27.360
<v Speaker 1>Correct, that is exactly right, and there's a lot of confusion.

201
00:12:28.120 --> 00:12:31.759
<v Speaker 1>You mentioned your Catholic background, doctors. There's a lot of confusion,

202
00:12:32.600 --> 00:12:35.159
<v Speaker 1>at least among non Catholics about the nature of a

203
00:12:35.320 --> 00:12:39.480
<v Speaker 1>patron saint because you kind of look at it from

204
00:12:39.519 --> 00:12:42.080
<v Speaker 1>the outside. You think, well, this is some kind of

205
00:12:42.159 --> 00:12:46.600
<v Speaker 1>arrangement for recovering polytheists, right that you used to pray

206
00:12:46.639 --> 00:12:49.440
<v Speaker 1>to the Goddess Diana for a good harvest, but you

207
00:12:49.519 --> 00:12:51.440
<v Speaker 1>can't do that anymore, so I or just prayed to

208
00:12:52.039 --> 00:12:57.320
<v Speaker 1>Saint Agatha or whatever. But the real impetus behind it

209
00:12:57.360 --> 00:13:02.840
<v Speaker 1>is the patron client relationship of the Roman Empire. A patron,

210
00:13:03.559 --> 00:13:06.440
<v Speaker 1>just like you were saying, is a big shot. He's

211
00:13:06.480 --> 00:13:10.080
<v Speaker 1>an influencer in the town, and you are his client,

212
00:13:10.240 --> 00:13:14.559
<v Speaker 1>which means you are protected by him. You pay him homage,

213
00:13:14.919 --> 00:13:18.360
<v Speaker 1>and in turn he has your back. Well, by the

214
00:13:18.360 --> 00:13:21.360
<v Speaker 1>time you get to the late Roman Empire, the place

215
00:13:21.440 --> 00:13:25.679
<v Speaker 1>is falling apart, and people are cynical about government officials,

216
00:13:27.679 --> 00:13:32.080
<v Speaker 1>holy Catholic bishops and kind of step in and take

217
00:13:32.120 --> 00:13:35.399
<v Speaker 1>the role of a patron. You know, the Roman officials

218
00:13:35.440 --> 00:13:38.799
<v Speaker 1>can't dismiss a bishop. They know he's important, and so

219
00:13:38.879 --> 00:13:42.559
<v Speaker 1>he will step in to protect you when you are

220
00:13:42.600 --> 00:13:46.399
<v Speaker 1>being attacked by you know, the big government or whatever.

221
00:13:47.399 --> 00:13:50.159
<v Speaker 2>Well, this is amazing. I mean many of the things

222
00:13:50.200 --> 00:13:53.000
<v Speaker 2>that happen. In other words, history repeats itself, and the

223
00:13:53.080 --> 00:13:55.080
<v Speaker 2>story that we're talking about here with Saint Nick, but

224
00:13:55.120 --> 00:13:57.559
<v Speaker 2>in a respectful way, but also in a way to

225
00:13:57.600 --> 00:14:00.559
<v Speaker 2>bring people's minds to the attention of maybe more or music.

226
00:14:01.039 --> 00:14:03.480
<v Speaker 2>We're gonna hear a rendition of the Beach Boys as

227
00:14:03.480 --> 00:14:06.279
<v Speaker 2>they sing a very interesting song in the beauty of

228
00:14:06.279 --> 00:14:09.519
<v Speaker 2>the holiday season, the song of Little Saint Nick. And

229
00:14:09.600 --> 00:14:12.480
<v Speaker 2>this is performed of course by the Beach Boys. Very

230
00:14:12.519 --> 00:14:16.120
<v Speaker 2>apropos time to hear, to celebrate in the joyous festivities

231
00:14:16.159 --> 00:14:18.919
<v Speaker 2>of Christmas. But ladies and gentlemen more important, our very

232
00:14:18.960 --> 00:14:22.000
<v Speaker 2>special guest, Michael P. Foley a book not only the

233
00:14:22.039 --> 00:14:24.840
<v Speaker 2>color I just love, very Victorian, as we have the

234
00:14:24.919 --> 00:14:29.240
<v Speaker 2>title Why We Kiss under the Missiletoe. Christmas Traditions explain.

235
00:14:32.440 --> 00:14:35.679
<v Speaker 3>Christmas, Christmas come this time.

236
00:14:40.039 --> 00:14:45.639
<v Speaker 4>Well way up Norsworthy ergis, there's a tale about Christmas

237
00:14:45.639 --> 00:14:50.720
<v Speaker 4>that you love in and Thames dressed up and written

238
00:14:50.960 --> 00:14:55.080
<v Speaker 4>eighty sense of all year working out it is then it's.

239
00:14:55.039 --> 00:15:02.399
<v Speaker 3>The It's the little same, the same, just as the

240
00:15:02.519 --> 00:15:05.519
<v Speaker 3>little Bob slip you go a little same dick, but

241
00:15:05.879 --> 00:15:06.759
<v Speaker 3>you walk into the.

242
00:15:06.879 --> 00:15:11.159
<v Speaker 4>Fgon do the first mist you Candy apple Man with

243
00:15:11.360 --> 00:15:14.879
<v Speaker 4>the steep world wheel and the sad against the gas man.

244
00:15:15.080 --> 00:15:19.120
<v Speaker 3>Just watching review. It's the good the same nig same,

245
00:15:20.120 --> 00:15:25.399
<v Speaker 3>It's the little same nick same a run rid rain,

246
00:15:27.879 --> 00:15:29.320
<v Speaker 3>the run right rain.

247
00:15:36.159 --> 00:15:36.399
<v Speaker 4>Rain.

248
00:15:37.120 --> 00:15:38.639
<v Speaker 2>You don't miss no one.

249
00:15:39.000 --> 00:15:41.960
<v Speaker 4>I'm holling through the snow at a right to speed

250
00:15:42.200 --> 00:15:45.480
<v Speaker 4>with the half a dozen year with the rain lea.

251
00:15:46.279 --> 00:15:49.759
<v Speaker 4>He's gottaware with goggles cos the snow really flies.

252
00:15:49.679 --> 00:15:53.799
<v Speaker 3>And he's goosing everywhere with the little sprid. It's the

253
00:15:54.039 --> 00:15:59.399
<v Speaker 3>little same the same. It's the little same day, the

254
00:15:59.519 --> 00:16:05.799
<v Speaker 3>same Christmas.

255
00:16:06.080 --> 00:16:18.320
<v Speaker 2>J Michael, this is amazing and it's a short read,

256
00:16:18.559 --> 00:16:20.440
<v Speaker 2>and I gather you know, I have to ask you

257
00:16:20.519 --> 00:16:22.519
<v Speaker 2>the question. It's very simple. I mean, obviously you are

258
00:16:22.559 --> 00:16:26.080
<v Speaker 2>the scholar and the patristics, but why this book about Christmas?

259
00:16:26.120 --> 00:16:28.240
<v Speaker 2>I mean it comes through in your voice that there's

260
00:16:28.320 --> 00:16:31.399
<v Speaker 2>this great passion so this compilation, I mean, can you

261
00:16:31.480 --> 00:16:34.000
<v Speaker 2>describe it. You were sitting, let's say, with your family,

262
00:16:34.120 --> 00:16:36.559
<v Speaker 2>or you're out somewhere fishing or doing something. One day

263
00:16:36.600 --> 00:16:38.320
<v Speaker 2>it just hits you and said, hey, I got to

264
00:16:38.399 --> 00:16:41.519
<v Speaker 2>do a book about this. Describe that whole chain of thought.

265
00:16:42.279 --> 00:16:43.879
<v Speaker 1>Well, I don't know if it was a single moment,

266
00:16:43.919 --> 00:16:46.759
<v Speaker 1>but you're absolutely right. And of course I'm not unique.

267
00:16:47.200 --> 00:16:50.519
<v Speaker 1>As a kid, I loved Christmas and I was always

268
00:16:50.879 --> 00:16:54.600
<v Speaker 1>fascinated by the Christmas symbols. What other time in the

269
00:16:54.679 --> 00:16:58.480
<v Speaker 1>American year do you have a season so chock full

270
00:16:58.720 --> 00:17:02.799
<v Speaker 1>of symbols? And so I wondered about them as a kid.

271
00:17:03.159 --> 00:17:05.559
<v Speaker 1>You know, why do we deck the halls with hours

272
00:17:05.640 --> 00:17:09.160
<v Speaker 1>of holly and not boxwood? You know, what's the deal

273
00:17:09.160 --> 00:17:11.319
<v Speaker 1>about the Christmas tree? And why do we kiss under

274
00:17:11.359 --> 00:17:15.359
<v Speaker 1>the missiletoe? So as an adult, you know, becoming a

275
00:17:15.440 --> 00:17:19.480
<v Speaker 1>college professor, I developed, you know, skills of research, and

276
00:17:19.599 --> 00:17:22.960
<v Speaker 1>I was able to dig deep and get some answers

277
00:17:23.000 --> 00:17:23.799
<v Speaker 1>to my questions.

278
00:17:24.559 --> 00:17:28.359
<v Speaker 2>Amazing. Yes, it's a great read and a little I

279
00:17:28.400 --> 00:17:30.160
<v Speaker 2>don't want to call it a pocket book. How would

280
00:17:30.160 --> 00:17:32.599
<v Speaker 2>you describe it. It's in between that as a hardcover.

281
00:17:33.160 --> 00:17:35.640
<v Speaker 2>It's just simply something that you can't put down. And

282
00:17:35.839 --> 00:17:39.839
<v Speaker 2>everybody within the sound of this particular interview, they definitely

283
00:17:39.839 --> 00:17:42.160
<v Speaker 2>should get a copy of this coming to us from

284
00:17:42.200 --> 00:17:45.480
<v Speaker 2>the great Regnary people. But it's Regnary history, and they

285
00:17:45.519 --> 00:17:47.759
<v Speaker 2>can find this wherever good books are sold, but also

286
00:17:47.920 --> 00:17:51.240
<v Speaker 2>at regnoryhistory dot com. Let's talk about the other things.

287
00:17:51.319 --> 00:17:54.160
<v Speaker 2>This really opened my eyes as we talk to Michael

288
00:17:54.599 --> 00:17:57.119
<v Speaker 2>that you have a chapter here at chapter five, the Good,

289
00:17:57.759 --> 00:18:01.279
<v Speaker 2>the Bad, and the Ugly Stanta's Helper. I once heard

290
00:18:01.359 --> 00:18:05.519
<v Speaker 2>that there was some dark images of the anti Santa,

291
00:18:05.680 --> 00:18:07.720
<v Speaker 2>and you describe some of these. I almost found it

292
00:18:07.799 --> 00:18:10.119
<v Speaker 2>hard to believe that. As raised as a Catholic, I

293
00:18:10.240 --> 00:18:12.759
<v Speaker 2>never heard this. And you could describe to us something

294
00:18:12.799 --> 00:18:17.160
<v Speaker 2>called Sert and also a being I guess called Crampus,

295
00:18:17.279 --> 00:18:20.599
<v Speaker 2>I mean, and it goes on and on. Who were

296
00:18:20.680 --> 00:18:24.200
<v Speaker 2>these entities? And I hope they're not real. Oh.

297
00:18:25.160 --> 00:18:28.000
<v Speaker 1>One of the biggest surprises in researching this book was

298
00:18:28.200 --> 00:18:32.359
<v Speaker 1>the dark side of Christmas. Yes, you know there are

299
00:18:32.400 --> 00:18:36.759
<v Speaker 1>stories of witches and goblins and elves which were scary

300
00:18:36.880 --> 00:18:40.039
<v Speaker 1>creatures before they were tamed to make toys for Santa.

301
00:18:41.160 --> 00:18:45.720
<v Speaker 1>You know, when Dickens has Ebenezer Scrooge visited by three

302
00:18:45.880 --> 00:18:49.359
<v Speaker 1>ghosts on Christmas Eve, he's not pulling that out of

303
00:18:49.400 --> 00:18:52.119
<v Speaker 1>a hat. He's drawing from a very long and frightening

304
00:18:52.240 --> 00:18:57.920
<v Speaker 1>tradition of ghost stories. So you've got that in the background.

305
00:18:58.400 --> 00:19:03.240
<v Speaker 1>But then specifically, when Saint Nicholas visited children on the

306
00:19:03.319 --> 00:19:05.880
<v Speaker 1>vigil of his feast to give gifts, which would be

307
00:19:06.119 --> 00:19:12.160
<v Speaker 1>December fifth, he was often accompanied by a very spooky sidekick,

308
00:19:12.839 --> 00:19:17.079
<v Speaker 1>and often it was a demon. In Austria and Germany

309
00:19:17.160 --> 00:19:21.680
<v Speaker 1>it's Crampus. In the Czech Republic it's a demon named Church,

310
00:19:22.160 --> 00:19:25.599
<v Speaker 1>which is actually just the check word for demon or devil.

311
00:19:26.400 --> 00:19:30.880
<v Speaker 1>And they would often be chained. Sometimes an angel would

312
00:19:30.920 --> 00:19:34.720
<v Speaker 1>be the one holding the chains. And it seems very strange,

313
00:19:35.319 --> 00:19:38.440
<v Speaker 1>and you're thinking this is good for children, but it

314
00:19:38.559 --> 00:19:43.400
<v Speaker 1>actually does show children how Saint Nicholas, as your patron,

315
00:19:43.960 --> 00:19:47.559
<v Speaker 1>has your back, that God has blessed him with an

316
00:19:47.640 --> 00:19:50.559
<v Speaker 1>ability to subdue evil.

317
00:19:51.160 --> 00:19:54.079
<v Speaker 2>Amazing. Yeah, this is so amazing. It's so mind boggling

318
00:19:54.160 --> 00:19:56.920
<v Speaker 2>because as a Catholic, and again I keep repeating that,

319
00:19:57.079 --> 00:19:59.880
<v Speaker 2>because it was very much a kind of a blind

320
00:20:00.079 --> 00:20:02.920
<v Speaker 2>folder when you're little, I mean everything. There wasn't any

321
00:20:03.039 --> 00:20:05.200
<v Speaker 2>talk of the dark side. Of course, it was always

322
00:20:05.200 --> 00:20:07.359
<v Speaker 2>the good, which I guess as a child helped me

323
00:20:07.480 --> 00:20:09.680
<v Speaker 2>get through, you know, without hearing any of those dark

324
00:20:09.759 --> 00:20:12.319
<v Speaker 2>side stories. But one thing you mentioned, you corrected me.

325
00:20:12.440 --> 00:20:15.400
<v Speaker 2>I said, sirt and you say shirt. But the interesting

326
00:20:15.440 --> 00:20:17.640
<v Speaker 2>thing is I was wondering because I'll never touch a

327
00:20:17.720 --> 00:20:21.119
<v Speaker 2>cert mint again for bad breaths something. But on a

328
00:20:21.200 --> 00:20:24.240
<v Speaker 2>lighter I hear you. Now this is quite fascinating and

329
00:20:24.480 --> 00:20:26.720
<v Speaker 2>on the other side of the coin you describe this

330
00:20:26.880 --> 00:20:29.960
<v Speaker 2>is amazing. Saint Lucy, I never knew that she is

331
00:20:30.039 --> 00:20:33.160
<v Speaker 2>the patron saint of eyes and vision? Is this also

332
00:20:33.440 --> 00:20:36.480
<v Speaker 2>a connection to the to the Christmas story too? There's

333
00:20:36.480 --> 00:20:39.480
<v Speaker 2>a connection with her involving want this holiday and the

334
00:20:39.559 --> 00:20:40.400
<v Speaker 2>spirit of Christmas.

335
00:20:41.319 --> 00:20:45.680
<v Speaker 1>So her feast day is on December thirteenth, and especially

336
00:20:46.039 --> 00:20:50.119
<v Speaker 1>in Scandinavian countries, but also almost the other side of

337
00:20:50.160 --> 00:20:54.519
<v Speaker 1>the globe. For her native Syracuse, Italy, she is held

338
00:20:54.640 --> 00:20:58.839
<v Speaker 1>in very high regard. I think the reason why she

339
00:20:59.039 --> 00:21:04.279
<v Speaker 1>is loved in Scandinavian countries is that before the reform

340
00:21:04.400 --> 00:21:07.640
<v Speaker 1>of the Gregorian calendar, the reform of the Julian calendar

341
00:21:08.400 --> 00:21:13.839
<v Speaker 1>in the what was it seventeen hundreds, fifteen hundreds. In

342
00:21:13.920 --> 00:21:17.759
<v Speaker 1>the old Julian calendar, December thirteenth was the winter solstice,

343
00:21:18.279 --> 00:21:23.400
<v Speaker 1>so there was an association with light. We're getting longer days,

344
00:21:23.559 --> 00:21:28.519
<v Speaker 1>and then Lucy's name means light in Latin, so you've

345
00:21:28.599 --> 00:21:32.359
<v Speaker 1>got this happy coincidence, all kinds of light customs going on,

346
00:21:33.319 --> 00:21:35.480
<v Speaker 1>and then she is the patron of light, which is,

347
00:21:36.119 --> 00:21:38.519
<v Speaker 1>you know, the sort of patron of the eyes rather,

348
00:21:38.599 --> 00:21:42.400
<v Speaker 1>which is sort of the window into the mind or

349
00:21:42.599 --> 00:21:45.519
<v Speaker 1>the body. So all these things sort of tied together

350
00:21:45.920 --> 00:21:47.359
<v Speaker 1>and made her feast stay a very.

351
00:21:47.319 --> 00:21:50.680
<v Speaker 2>Festive one, beautiful. You know. I'm going to take deliverty

352
00:21:51.000 --> 00:21:53.200
<v Speaker 2>Michael of injecting a poem that I had read from

353
00:21:53.240 --> 00:21:55.559
<v Speaker 2>one of the shows that we were doing and still

354
00:21:55.640 --> 00:21:57.839
<v Speaker 2>proudly do on Coast to Coast. I am, of course

355
00:21:57.920 --> 00:22:00.279
<v Speaker 2>the nation, and they asked us to do this CD

356
00:22:00.480 --> 00:22:03.359
<v Speaker 2>for Christmas many many years ago. So I'm somewhere in

357
00:22:03.480 --> 00:22:05.240
<v Speaker 2>between one of the guys from one of the rock

358
00:22:05.359 --> 00:22:09.240
<v Speaker 2>bands and Pat Boone, I guess, and we're somewhat in there.

359
00:22:09.279 --> 00:22:11.799
<v Speaker 2>But I wanted to inject this, and it's apropos right now.

360
00:22:12.200 --> 00:22:14.440
<v Speaker 2>It's a Christmas poem that I read about children being

361
00:22:14.559 --> 00:22:17.359
<v Speaker 2>naughty and nice, And what better time to implant this

362
00:22:17.519 --> 00:22:20.640
<v Speaker 2>in here, because you're talking about things that I never

363
00:22:20.759 --> 00:22:23.640
<v Speaker 2>knew about about not just about the story of Saint

364
00:22:23.720 --> 00:22:26.119
<v Speaker 2>Nicholas and then Santa Claus, but also some of these

365
00:22:26.240 --> 00:22:30.079
<v Speaker 2>other darker forces out there. But it's an interesting rate.

366
00:22:30.160 --> 00:22:36.240
<v Speaker 5>Nonetheless, it is said long ago that children from around

367
00:22:36.279 --> 00:22:39.400
<v Speaker 5>the world would wake up on Christmas Day and find

368
00:22:39.440 --> 00:22:43.279
<v Speaker 5>to their delight the gift of toys, the generosity from

369
00:22:43.359 --> 00:22:46.839
<v Speaker 5>a man named Claus. But Claus thought that none of

370
00:22:46.880 --> 00:22:49.079
<v Speaker 5>the children would ever know where the toys came from,

371
00:22:49.319 --> 00:22:52.640
<v Speaker 5>and that being okay with him. But his kindly deeds

372
00:22:52.920 --> 00:22:55.759
<v Speaker 5>that made so many children happy would carry to far

373
00:22:55.960 --> 00:23:00.319
<v Speaker 5>lands and not go unrecognized. So for miles and miles

374
00:23:00.359 --> 00:23:02.920
<v Speaker 5>in every direction, people were talking of Claws and his

375
00:23:03.160 --> 00:23:06.319
<v Speaker 5>wonderful gifts to children. The sweet kindness of his work

376
00:23:06.440 --> 00:23:09.359
<v Speaker 5>would remind folks of their respect for a man so

377
00:23:09.599 --> 00:23:12.400
<v Speaker 5>gentle natured that he loved to devote his life to

378
00:23:12.519 --> 00:23:16.319
<v Speaker 5>pleasing the helpless little ones. Therefore, the inhabitants of every

379
00:23:16.400 --> 00:23:19.640
<v Speaker 5>city and village had been eagerly watching for the coming

380
00:23:20.039 --> 00:23:23.599
<v Speaker 5>of Claus. Stories of beautiful playthings were told to the

381
00:23:23.720 --> 00:23:27.240
<v Speaker 5>children to keep them patient and contented. When, on the

382
00:23:27.279 --> 00:23:30.000
<v Speaker 5>morning following the trip of Claws with his deer, the

383
00:23:30.079 --> 00:23:32.680
<v Speaker 5>little ones came running to their parents with the pretty

384
00:23:32.759 --> 00:23:35.839
<v Speaker 5>toys they had found. And as from whence they came,

385
00:23:36.200 --> 00:23:39.200
<v Speaker 5>there was put one reply to the question. The good

386
00:23:39.279 --> 00:23:42.279
<v Speaker 5>Clause must have been here my darlings, for his are

387
00:23:42.319 --> 00:23:45.920
<v Speaker 5>the only toys in all the world. But how did

388
00:23:46.000 --> 00:23:48.799
<v Speaker 5>he get in, asked the children. At this The fathers

389
00:23:48.839 --> 00:23:52.680
<v Speaker 5>shook their heads, being themselves unable to understand how claws

390
00:23:52.720 --> 00:23:56.160
<v Speaker 5>had gained admittance to their homes. But the mothers, watching

391
00:23:56.240 --> 00:23:59.440
<v Speaker 5>the glad faces of their dear ones, whispered that the

392
00:23:59.519 --> 00:24:03.240
<v Speaker 5>good Claw was no mortal man, but assuredly a saint,

393
00:24:03.680 --> 00:24:06.319
<v Speaker 5>and they blessed his name for the happiness he had

394
00:24:06.359 --> 00:24:09.759
<v Speaker 5>bestowed upon the children. A saint, said, one with bowed

395
00:24:09.799 --> 00:24:13.119
<v Speaker 5>head has no need to unlock doors if it pleases

396
00:24:13.240 --> 00:24:17.119
<v Speaker 5>him to enter our homes. And from then on, when

397
00:24:17.160 --> 00:24:20.480
<v Speaker 5>a child was naughty or disobedient, its mother would say,

398
00:24:20.960 --> 00:24:23.440
<v Speaker 5>you must pray to the good Santa Claus for forgiveness,

399
00:24:23.599 --> 00:24:28.319
<v Speaker 5>for naughty children will receive no more pretty toys. But

400
00:24:28.440 --> 00:24:32.000
<v Speaker 5>Santa Claus himself would not have approved this speech. You see,

401
00:24:32.319 --> 00:24:35.160
<v Speaker 5>he brought toys to the children because they were little

402
00:24:35.599 --> 00:24:40.359
<v Speaker 5>and helpless, and because he loved them. He knew that

403
00:24:40.519 --> 00:24:43.599
<v Speaker 5>the best of children were sometimes naughty, and that the

404
00:24:43.680 --> 00:24:47.160
<v Speaker 5>naughty ones were often good. It's the way with children

405
00:24:47.359 --> 00:24:50.440
<v Speaker 5>the world over, and that is how our Clause became

406
00:24:50.519 --> 00:24:53.960
<v Speaker 5>Santa Claus and enshrined himself as a saint in the

407
00:24:54.119 --> 00:24:55.519
<v Speaker 5>hearts of the people.

408
00:24:56.119 --> 00:24:59.000
<v Speaker 2>But I gotta ask you about this. Describe to us

409
00:24:59.079 --> 00:25:00.880
<v Speaker 2>this is going to be a missing this from the interview,

410
00:25:00.920 --> 00:25:03.960
<v Speaker 2>and I wanted to hear it. Describe the transgression of

411
00:25:04.039 --> 00:25:07.359
<v Speaker 2>how Saint Nicholas then moves on to become Santa Claus.

412
00:25:07.359 --> 00:25:09.440
<v Speaker 2>I think everybody's interested to hear that story.

413
00:25:10.839 --> 00:25:14.640
<v Speaker 1>That is such a bizarre transformation. I mean, think about it.

414
00:25:14.759 --> 00:25:20.920
<v Speaker 1>You have a celibate bishop living in the Mediterranean and

415
00:25:21.079 --> 00:25:27.640
<v Speaker 1>he somehow becomes married, living in the North Pole, elves

416
00:25:27.720 --> 00:25:31.319
<v Speaker 1>are at his beck and call to make toys. He's

417
00:25:31.440 --> 00:25:37.000
<v Speaker 1>driving a reindeer with sleigh or vice versa. It's just bizarre.

418
00:25:37.680 --> 00:25:41.680
<v Speaker 1>So we from what we can tell, we owe a

419
00:25:41.799 --> 00:25:46.799
<v Speaker 1>series of American authors from the early eighteen hundreds for

420
00:25:46.960 --> 00:25:52.119
<v Speaker 1>all of this, So authors like Washington Irving and Clement

421
00:25:52.200 --> 00:25:55.839
<v Speaker 1>Clark Moore. We're living in New York City and the

422
00:25:56.079 --> 00:26:00.680
<v Speaker 1>Dutch had given the city Santa Claus and kept that

423
00:26:00.799 --> 00:26:04.200
<v Speaker 1>custom alive when it was New Amsterdam. So they took

424
00:26:04.279 --> 00:26:08.599
<v Speaker 1>these customs from the Dutch about Saint Nicholas. And then

425
00:26:09.599 --> 00:26:12.559
<v Speaker 1>from what we can tell they may have taken elements

426
00:26:12.720 --> 00:26:18.720
<v Speaker 1>from Norse mythology about Thor and Woden. Thor, for example,

427
00:26:18.880 --> 00:26:22.880
<v Speaker 1>after whom our Thursday is named, was the god of fire,

428
00:26:23.240 --> 00:26:27.599
<v Speaker 1>and so he bore red. He was associated with the chimney.

429
00:26:28.200 --> 00:26:32.440
<v Speaker 1>He drove a chariot in the sky, pulled by two goats,

430
00:26:33.000 --> 00:26:38.440
<v Speaker 1>and when the goats stepped on the clouds, it made thunder.

431
00:26:39.200 --> 00:26:42.240
<v Speaker 1>And so they took these Norse elements. They took the

432
00:26:42.359 --> 00:26:45.799
<v Speaker 1>legends of Saint Nicholas. They put them in a blender

433
00:26:46.079 --> 00:26:48.960
<v Speaker 1>and they flipped on the switch, and that's how we

434
00:26:49.039 --> 00:26:49.839
<v Speaker 1>got Santa Claus.

435
00:26:50.799 --> 00:26:54.039
<v Speaker 2>That's amazing, and the timeline in which you described it

436
00:26:54.240 --> 00:26:58.359
<v Speaker 2>very quickly. This also happened because we don't know as

437
00:26:58.400 --> 00:27:02.720
<v Speaker 2>a celibate person, Saint Nicholas. He transforms himself into one

438
00:27:03.279 --> 00:27:06.960
<v Speaker 2>a jolly, happy family man with astead of reindeer and

439
00:27:07.039 --> 00:27:10.039
<v Speaker 2>a sleigh, and he's what mimicking as you're describing to

440
00:27:10.200 --> 00:27:12.839
<v Speaker 2>us what the story of Thor. I guess this is

441
00:27:12.920 --> 00:27:15.480
<v Speaker 2>also like the modern day version of what Thor would be.

442
00:27:16.039 --> 00:27:18.559
<v Speaker 2>As we get into Santa Claus with his chariot and

443
00:27:18.640 --> 00:27:22.720
<v Speaker 2>reindeer in the whole nine yards. That's interesting that really is. Oh,

444
00:27:22.759 --> 00:27:26.680
<v Speaker 2>it's quite a stretch, kind of fascinating book here, you know,

445
00:27:26.839 --> 00:27:29.079
<v Speaker 2>in the time allotted today, I'm bouncing all over the

446
00:27:29.160 --> 00:27:31.400
<v Speaker 2>place on purpose here. But I think it's so important.

447
00:27:32.079 --> 00:27:36.839
<v Speaker 2>The Christmas tree. Something is that iconic symbol. Story is

448
00:27:36.880 --> 00:27:39.319
<v Speaker 2>about that, I mean, the origin of it. I would

449
00:27:39.359 --> 00:27:41.759
<v Speaker 2>imagine people just go and in the old days, we

450
00:27:41.839 --> 00:27:43.720
<v Speaker 2>went out to the forest, we chopped the tree down,

451
00:27:43.799 --> 00:27:46.359
<v Speaker 2>and we planted it where in our house outside. But

452
00:27:46.799 --> 00:27:49.200
<v Speaker 2>you've got some fascinating theories of the origin of the

453
00:27:49.279 --> 00:27:51.000
<v Speaker 2>Christmas tree and the connection to Christmas.

454
00:27:52.599 --> 00:27:55.039
<v Speaker 1>Well, that was a big surprise for me. I didn't

455
00:27:55.079 --> 00:27:58.799
<v Speaker 1>realize that there were myths about Christmas myths and I

456
00:27:58.960 --> 00:28:01.599
<v Speaker 1>grew up being told that the Christmas tree was a

457
00:28:01.759 --> 00:28:06.039
<v Speaker 1>pagan yule Tide holdover. And indeed there are some pagan

458
00:28:06.119 --> 00:28:10.920
<v Speaker 1>yule tied holdovers, mistletoe is one of them, having evergreens

459
00:28:10.960 --> 00:28:14.519
<v Speaker 1>in your houses another. But it turns out that the

460
00:28:14.640 --> 00:28:18.599
<v Speaker 1>Christmas tree is a quintessentially Christian invention.

461
00:28:20.000 --> 00:28:24.440
<v Speaker 2>Interesting. Wow, that's an amazing story. But you described in

462
00:28:24.480 --> 00:28:26.119
<v Speaker 2>the book, and I don't want to give everything away

463
00:28:26.160 --> 00:28:28.319
<v Speaker 2>because I want people to read this and especially what

464
00:28:28.440 --> 00:28:30.759
<v Speaker 2>they should do is get a copy of this as

465
00:28:30.759 --> 00:28:33.400
<v Speaker 2>they're sitting around the fireplace or just sitting with family.

466
00:28:34.039 --> 00:28:36.480
<v Speaker 2>And this is interesting. Except for certain chapters I probably

467
00:28:36.519 --> 00:28:38.720
<v Speaker 2>wouldn't read to the children, but the beauty of the

468
00:28:38.799 --> 00:28:41.359
<v Speaker 2>Christmas Tree and the story of Mistletoe, and many many

469
00:28:41.440 --> 00:28:44.680
<v Speaker 2>other chapters could be read aloud. But I'm reading this

470
00:28:44.880 --> 00:28:48.960
<v Speaker 2>that the symbology of red may come from a connection

471
00:28:49.119 --> 00:28:52.119
<v Speaker 2>between Adam and Eve and that sacred apple that was

472
00:28:52.359 --> 00:28:55.799
<v Speaker 2>Eden that's also in your book, right.

473
00:28:56.759 --> 00:28:59.920
<v Speaker 1>Well, it is interesting that red and green have been

474
00:29:00.079 --> 00:29:03.799
<v Speaker 1>come the colors of Christmas, But in terms of the

475
00:29:04.000 --> 00:29:08.480
<v Speaker 1>worship of the Church, it's a very strange thing because

476
00:29:08.559 --> 00:29:11.680
<v Speaker 1>the colors during December, like we were talking about a

477
00:29:11.759 --> 00:29:14.880
<v Speaker 1>moment ago, are violet or purple. The color that the

478
00:29:14.960 --> 00:29:18.759
<v Speaker 1>priest wears during the Christmas season is white. So where

479
00:29:18.799 --> 00:29:22.440
<v Speaker 1>does the red and the green come from. One theory

480
00:29:22.720 --> 00:29:25.000
<v Speaker 1>is that it's holly. It could be the Christmas tree

481
00:29:25.079 --> 00:29:28.960
<v Speaker 1>with its greenness and its red balls, but it could

482
00:29:29.000 --> 00:29:31.880
<v Speaker 1>also be holly. And the reason why holly was chosen

483
00:29:31.920 --> 00:29:37.799
<v Speaker 1>as a Christmas decoration is that it reminded Christians of

484
00:29:38.119 --> 00:29:42.839
<v Speaker 1>the Crucifixion. The prickly leaves recalled the crown of thorns,

485
00:29:43.079 --> 00:29:46.640
<v Speaker 1>and the red berries recalled the drops of blood that

486
00:29:46.839 --> 00:29:51.960
<v Speaker 1>our Lord would shed for humanity. And so the irony

487
00:29:52.680 --> 00:29:56.319
<v Speaker 1>of Christmas having red and green as its colors is

488
00:29:56.400 --> 00:30:00.680
<v Speaker 1>that it was inspired by a plant that reminded Christians

489
00:30:00.759 --> 00:30:03.039
<v Speaker 1>of the Crucifixion, not the Nativity.

490
00:30:03.799 --> 00:30:06.039
<v Speaker 2>Wow, there's so many I mean, if you were to

491
00:30:06.119 --> 00:30:09.119
<v Speaker 2>PLoP this like on a big blackboard in a classroom,

492
00:30:09.599 --> 00:30:13.160
<v Speaker 2>there's so many sidelines in this whole story that is

493
00:30:13.240 --> 00:30:16.400
<v Speaker 2>so amazing. And because of your research. I mean, I

494
00:30:16.440 --> 00:30:18.640
<v Speaker 2>always thought pretty much everything was linear. You know, you

495
00:30:18.720 --> 00:30:21.480
<v Speaker 2>go from the Star of Bethlehem, the Birth of Jesus,

496
00:30:21.519 --> 00:30:23.480
<v Speaker 2>and you go along this linear line. But you've got

497
00:30:23.519 --> 00:30:27.000
<v Speaker 2>all these side fascinating stories from Saint Nicholas, how he

498
00:30:27.119 --> 00:30:31.039
<v Speaker 2>became Santa, how all these different saints, some necessarily as

499
00:30:31.119 --> 00:30:35.119
<v Speaker 2>we talk about these goblins and other dark Santa's coming

500
00:30:35.160 --> 00:30:37.359
<v Speaker 2>to the picture. But here's one and I don't like

501
00:30:37.480 --> 00:30:40.640
<v Speaker 2>reading from someone's book here you wrote it, but the chrysanthemum.

502
00:30:41.000 --> 00:30:43.960
<v Speaker 2>And I'll quote here and I say this, When the

503
00:30:44.039 --> 00:30:46.559
<v Speaker 2>Magi reached Bethlehem, they got lost in the dark until

504
00:30:46.599 --> 00:30:50.039
<v Speaker 2>Miltshord discovered a chrysanthemum and picked it up. Immediately, the

505
00:30:50.160 --> 00:30:52.799
<v Speaker 2>doors of a nearby stable flew open, revealing the Holy

506
00:30:52.920 --> 00:30:57.279
<v Speaker 2>Family the significance of this flower in Christmas. I think

507
00:30:57.319 --> 00:30:59.519
<v Speaker 2>I've said some of it, but what you write is

508
00:31:00.160 --> 00:31:01.440
<v Speaker 2>I think, can please please tell us more?

509
00:31:03.039 --> 00:31:06.200
<v Speaker 1>Oh yeah, I figured as a fan of the Magi

510
00:31:06.359 --> 00:31:08.119
<v Speaker 1>that you would be drawn to the chrysanthemum.

511
00:31:08.599 --> 00:31:10.920
<v Speaker 2>Oh yeah, absolutely, It's amazing. It just keeps going on

512
00:31:11.039 --> 00:31:11.480
<v Speaker 2>and on and on.

513
00:31:11.759 --> 00:31:15.119
<v Speaker 1>There are a lot of wonderful legends about the Magi.

514
00:31:15.279 --> 00:31:19.119
<v Speaker 1>By the way, there are different gift givers throughout the world,

515
00:31:19.319 --> 00:31:22.559
<v Speaker 1>and in Italy the gift giver is an old woman

516
00:31:22.839 --> 00:31:27.279
<v Speaker 1>named the Fauna, and she has a connection to the Magi.

517
00:31:27.559 --> 00:31:31.400
<v Speaker 1>When they were on their way to Bethlehem, they stayed

518
00:31:31.440 --> 00:31:34.279
<v Speaker 1>in her house. I guess she had an ancient airbnb.

519
00:31:35.200 --> 00:31:38.920
<v Speaker 1>And they were amazed at what a great housekeeper she was,

520
00:31:39.200 --> 00:31:43.759
<v Speaker 1>and indeed she was. She was extremely fastidious. So they

521
00:31:43.799 --> 00:31:47.079
<v Speaker 1>were so impressed with her hospitality, they said, you should

522
00:31:47.079 --> 00:31:50.960
<v Speaker 1>come join us, and so she said, great, I would

523
00:31:51.000 --> 00:31:53.440
<v Speaker 1>love to meet the Messiah, but I just need to

524
00:31:53.480 --> 00:31:57.039
<v Speaker 1>clean up first. And so they took off and she

525
00:31:57.480 --> 00:32:00.200
<v Speaker 1>cleaned in the hopes of catching up with them. She

526
00:32:00.359 --> 00:32:03.440
<v Speaker 1>spent too long cleaning up, and when she went out

527
00:32:03.480 --> 00:32:06.160
<v Speaker 1>to find them, she couldn't and so she has spent

528
00:32:06.319 --> 00:32:09.400
<v Speaker 1>the rest of history looking for the Christ Child.

529
00:32:09.960 --> 00:32:12.799
<v Speaker 2>Wow, what a story. See that's totally amazing. And this

530
00:32:12.960 --> 00:32:15.960
<v Speaker 2>is Michael P. Foldy research ladies and gentlemen that talks

531
00:32:16.000 --> 00:32:18.480
<v Speaker 2>about in so much more detail than we have time

532
00:32:18.559 --> 00:32:21.720
<v Speaker 2>for here, why we kiss under the missiletow Christmas traditions explain.

533
00:32:22.440 --> 00:32:23.839
<v Speaker 2>But I want to just ask you a few more

534
00:32:23.960 --> 00:32:26.880
<v Speaker 2>questions here and may really not questions, they're just observations

535
00:32:26.920 --> 00:32:30.000
<v Speaker 2>that I find fascinating. I want to get to the

536
00:32:30.119 --> 00:32:33.119
<v Speaker 2>main part of this interview, and it's the title of

537
00:32:33.160 --> 00:32:35.720
<v Speaker 2>the book. Tell us as much as you want to

538
00:32:36.480 --> 00:32:39.839
<v Speaker 2>about missiletoe and why we kiss under the missiletoe. This folks,

539
00:32:39.880 --> 00:32:41.720
<v Speaker 2>I think, just really knocks it out of their part.

540
00:32:43.359 --> 00:32:47.039
<v Speaker 1>Well, the short answer is the druids. The Druids thought

541
00:32:47.119 --> 00:32:51.440
<v Speaker 1>missletoe was an amazing plant. It was green in the

542
00:32:51.519 --> 00:32:54.799
<v Speaker 1>dead of winter, It grew without ever touching the soil.

543
00:32:55.599 --> 00:32:58.559
<v Speaker 1>It had berries in the dead of winter, and not

544
00:32:58.680 --> 00:33:02.680
<v Speaker 1>only berries, but white bear, which is relatively rare. And

545
00:33:02.880 --> 00:33:07.480
<v Speaker 1>so they treated the missiletoe with great reverence. When they

546
00:33:07.559 --> 00:33:10.599
<v Speaker 1>harvested it. They went through this elaborate ritual that can

547
00:33:10.680 --> 00:33:14.279
<v Speaker 1>never touch the ground, and they often made peace under

548
00:33:14.279 --> 00:33:19.920
<v Speaker 1>the missiletoe. So Christians, when Christianity came to those lands,

549
00:33:20.759 --> 00:33:25.319
<v Speaker 1>they added their signature greeting, which is of course the kiss.

550
00:33:26.519 --> 00:33:30.119
<v Speaker 1>The kiss of peace is a very biblical way of

551
00:33:30.599 --> 00:33:32.480
<v Speaker 1>exchanging Christian peace.

552
00:33:33.599 --> 00:33:37.160
<v Speaker 2>Wow. So the Christmas season doesn't just end. I mean

553
00:33:37.240 --> 00:33:40.160
<v Speaker 2>many people think it ends obviously the day after Christmas,

554
00:33:40.240 --> 00:33:43.519
<v Speaker 2>and maybe in my mind and many others, it's become

555
00:33:43.640 --> 00:33:46.799
<v Speaker 2>too commercialized. But the true spirit of Christmas, as we

556
00:33:46.920 --> 00:33:49.440
<v Speaker 2>read in your book, has much to do and not

557
00:33:49.640 --> 00:33:53.519
<v Speaker 2>much to do about buying something. It's more about adoration, love,

558
00:33:53.680 --> 00:33:57.920
<v Speaker 2>sharing kindness and doing things like that. But what happens,

559
00:33:58.000 --> 00:34:00.839
<v Speaker 2>it goes on all the way as you describe book Epiphany,

560
00:34:01.000 --> 00:34:03.720
<v Speaker 2>and then we talk about even a connection beyond that

561
00:34:03.920 --> 00:34:06.160
<v Speaker 2>into the month of February. Short answer on.

562
00:34:06.240 --> 00:34:10.719
<v Speaker 1>That, that's correct, and that's one of the downsides of

563
00:34:10.800 --> 00:34:14.119
<v Speaker 1>the modern Christmas is that we keep starting the Christmas

564
00:34:14.159 --> 00:34:18.199
<v Speaker 1>season earlier and earlier. This year, I saw jack O

565
00:34:18.320 --> 00:34:21.880
<v Speaker 1>lanyards and Christmas trees side by side for sale in

566
00:34:21.960 --> 00:34:25.639
<v Speaker 1>the store. We don't even wait for the day after Thanksgiving.

567
00:34:25.639 --> 00:34:28.199
<v Speaker 2>It absolutely, absolutely and one of.

568
00:34:28.239 --> 00:34:31.480
<v Speaker 1>The downsides of that is the more you stretch that out,

569
00:34:31.679 --> 00:34:34.000
<v Speaker 1>by the time you get to December twenty fifth, you're

570
00:34:34.039 --> 00:34:38.840
<v Speaker 1>practically sick of Christmas, which is unfortunate. So I do

571
00:34:38.960 --> 00:34:42.320
<v Speaker 1>think the older model was better, which was, hey, let's

572
00:34:42.320 --> 00:34:45.599
<v Speaker 1>still have joy. There is joy in advent, but let's

573
00:34:45.639 --> 00:34:50.679
<v Speaker 1>focus on restraint and preparation. Then when Christmas Day comes,

574
00:34:51.079 --> 00:34:54.519
<v Speaker 1>we pull out all the stops and we observe the

575
00:34:54.679 --> 00:35:00.280
<v Speaker 1>twelve days of Christmas, this period of unbroken merriment between

576
00:35:00.280 --> 00:35:03.159
<v Speaker 1>December twenty fifth and the Feast of the Epiphany on

577
00:35:03.440 --> 00:35:07.480
<v Speaker 1>January sixth, And like you said, in some cases they

578
00:35:07.559 --> 00:35:11.960
<v Speaker 1>found ways of extending the party even beyond January sixth.

579
00:35:12.440 --> 00:35:13.760
<v Speaker 1>I think that's a better way to do it.

580
00:35:15.039 --> 00:35:17.119
<v Speaker 2>My final question, and I'd like to do this again

581
00:35:17.199 --> 00:35:19.079
<v Speaker 2>with you, and I'll ask you again about a new

582
00:35:19.119 --> 00:35:22.199
<v Speaker 2>book maybe coming down the pike, but simply from your

583
00:35:22.239 --> 00:35:25.599
<v Speaker 2>own words from the heart, what can Christians do to

584
00:35:25.679 --> 00:35:27.840
<v Speaker 2>recapture the true spirit of Christmas?

585
00:35:29.360 --> 00:35:33.280
<v Speaker 1>Well, actually, I would just what I said. I think

586
00:35:33.880 --> 00:35:38.239
<v Speaker 1>obviously we keep the religious meaning in mind first and foremost,

587
00:35:39.159 --> 00:35:41.960
<v Speaker 1>but also observing the season in a way in which

588
00:35:42.039 --> 00:35:46.719
<v Speaker 1>there is a long period of restraint and joy, but

589
00:35:46.920 --> 00:35:51.719
<v Speaker 1>then to really focus on the jubilants of Christmas and

590
00:35:51.880 --> 00:35:55.400
<v Speaker 1>meditate on the mysteries of a nativity for those twelve days.

591
00:35:56.599 --> 00:35:59.519
<v Speaker 2>Michael Foley, You're awesome guests and look forward to having

592
00:35:59.559 --> 00:36:03.039
<v Speaker 2>you again. Any indication of something a sneak preview on

593
00:36:03.119 --> 00:36:05.800
<v Speaker 2>this show, a little news breaking thing here that might

594
00:36:05.840 --> 00:36:08.119
<v Speaker 2>be coming down As far as the next book.

595
00:36:08.000 --> 00:36:11.559
<v Speaker 1>Title, absolutely, I've got a couple things in the pipeline.

596
00:36:11.639 --> 00:36:14.880
<v Speaker 1>One is a cookbook. I have teamed up with Father

597
00:36:15.000 --> 00:36:18.360
<v Speaker 1>Leo Patalinghug who is a very renowned chef. He has

598
00:36:18.440 --> 00:36:22.880
<v Speaker 1>his own show on cable TV. We are doing Dining

599
00:36:23.000 --> 00:36:27.760
<v Speaker 1>with the Saints, so we will be providing wonderful recipes

600
00:36:27.960 --> 00:36:30.559
<v Speaker 1>for the feast days of the church here and he

601
00:36:30.679 --> 00:36:36.119
<v Speaker 1>and I are also hosting a riverboat pilgrimage cruise in

602
00:36:36.360 --> 00:36:40.079
<v Speaker 1>April of next year where we will go through We

603
00:36:40.159 --> 00:36:44.239
<v Speaker 1>will cruise down the Dual River through Portugal and Spain

604
00:36:44.840 --> 00:36:48.559
<v Speaker 1>and it's going to be great fun and we invite

605
00:36:48.599 --> 00:36:49.480
<v Speaker 1>everyone to join us.

606
00:36:50.320 --> 00:36:52.400
<v Speaker 2>Is there a website that people can go to Michael

607
00:36:52.480 --> 00:36:53.440
<v Speaker 2>that you suggest?

608
00:36:54.159 --> 00:36:57.599
<v Speaker 1>Absolutely, so, go to Drinking withthe Saints dot com that

609
00:36:57.719 --> 00:37:00.800
<v Speaker 1>will give you information about the cruise and You can

610
00:37:00.880 --> 00:37:04.320
<v Speaker 1>also like and follow us on Facebook. We have a

611
00:37:04.400 --> 00:37:09.119
<v Speaker 1>Drinking with the Saints page and Instagram which is Drinking Saints.

612
00:37:10.360 --> 00:37:12.199
<v Speaker 2>Thank you. Michael Foley, stay on the line with us

613
00:37:12.280 --> 00:37:15.280
<v Speaker 2>as we go to that hardbot. Yes, ladies and gentlemen,

614
00:37:15.320 --> 00:37:16.760
<v Speaker 2>we wish each and every one of you, as I'm

615
00:37:16.760 --> 00:37:19.199
<v Speaker 2>sure Michael and his family do, are most merry, joyous

616
00:37:19.320 --> 00:37:22.719
<v Speaker 2>and healthy. Merry Christmas and a great, healthy and happy

617
00:37:22.800 --> 00:37:25.440
<v Speaker 2>twenty twenty three. You're listening to me Steve Kates the

618
00:37:25.480 --> 00:37:28.760
<v Speaker 2>Doctor Sky Experience here on America's iconic radio station again,

619
00:37:28.920 --> 00:37:32.360
<v Speaker 2>Talk Radio seventy seven WABC out of New York City

620
00:37:32.400 --> 00:37:35.880
<v Speaker 2>and around the world on WABC radio dot Com, the

621
00:37:36.119 --> 00:37:39.519
<v Speaker 2>crown jewel of talk radio, with great guests from the realms,

622
00:37:39.559 --> 00:37:42.920
<v Speaker 2>normally of astronomy, space, aviation, and weather, celebrity guests in

623
00:37:42.960 --> 00:37:47.519
<v Speaker 2>the mix, and very many guests from American exceptionalism. Thanks

624
00:37:47.559 --> 00:37:50.199
<v Speaker 2>to our special guests Michael p. Foleing. We'll see you

625
00:37:50.280 --> 00:37:53.519
<v Speaker 2>next week, ladies and gentlemen, with more adventures. As Doctor

626
00:37:53.559 --> 00:37:55.719
<v Speaker 2>Sky always reminds everybody, always remember to keep your eyes

627
00:37:55.800 --> 00:37:59.280
<v Speaker 2>to the skies, as I'm simply your navigator on the highway.

628
00:38:00.639 --> 00:38:01.960
<v Speaker 2>Thank you, Michael thank you,