WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.080 --> 00:00:02.080 And now you get back to drinking. It's it's evening 2 00:00:02.120 --> 00:00:02.839 for me over here. 3 00:00:02.879 --> 00:00:05.080 And I wasn't gonna drink, but I did anyway, So 4 00:00:05.120 --> 00:00:05.799 I'm half in the bag. 5 00:00:05.839 --> 00:00:06.919 I'm not really half in the bag. 6 00:00:06.960 --> 00:00:09.919 But you should definitely always drink. 7 00:00:10.679 --> 00:00:18.600 Yes, ask not what your country can do for you, 8 00:00:19.559 --> 00:00:21.800 Ask what you can do for your country. 9 00:00:22.519 --> 00:00:26.359 Mister Gorbachhaw tear down this wall. 10 00:00:27.960 --> 00:00:30.879 It's the Ricochet Podcast with Charles C. W. Cook and 11 00:00:30.920 --> 00:00:33.280 Stephen Hayward. I'm James Lills. Today we're going to talk 12 00:00:33.280 --> 00:00:36.759 to urbanism with Joel Kotkin lets a podcast. 13 00:00:36.920 --> 00:00:40.039 I probably took a bullet to the head because of 14 00:00:40.520 --> 00:00:44.280 the things that they say about me. They talk about democracy. 15 00:00:44.320 --> 00:00:48.039 I'm a threat to democracy. They're the threat to democracy. 16 00:00:48.119 --> 00:00:51.399 Rather fake Russia Russia Russia investigation. 17 00:00:51.240 --> 00:00:53.560 That went nowhere. We have a lot to get to Lindsay. 18 00:00:54.359 --> 00:00:57.359 Welcome everybody. It's the Ricchet Podcast, number seven hundred and eight. 19 00:00:57.399 --> 00:00:59.159 And if you add seven and eight you get fifteen. 20 00:00:59.240 --> 00:01:01.119 If you divided fifty by the number of hosts here, 21 00:01:01.159 --> 00:01:02.719 you well know, if you take fifteen and you add 22 00:01:02.719 --> 00:01:04.159 the numbers to get six, you divide that by the 23 00:01:04.200 --> 00:01:04.840 number of hosts. 24 00:01:04.840 --> 00:01:05.920 Three come up with. 25 00:01:05.920 --> 00:01:07.519 Two who were the number of people who were on 26 00:01:07.599 --> 00:01:09.359 the stage and the debate which we're going to talk 27 00:01:09.400 --> 00:01:11.040 about with Charles E. W. 28 00:01:11.159 --> 00:01:14.799 Cook and Stephen Hayward And I'm James Lalyx. I met it. 29 00:01:15.120 --> 00:01:18.280 I'm sitting at a long conference table here and downtown Minneapolis. 30 00:01:18.280 --> 00:01:19.280 Steven's on a ship. 31 00:01:19.840 --> 00:01:23.079 Charles is Florida, which has not been yet sawed off 32 00:01:23.079 --> 00:01:26.079 by bugs Bunny left to float into the Caribbean. And Stephen, 33 00:01:26.319 --> 00:01:28.560 you're in. You're taking the Norway cruise. Have you been 34 00:01:28.599 --> 00:01:30.959 to Stoppinger yet and seeing the Herring Museum. 35 00:01:31.599 --> 00:01:32.480 No, I haven't been there. 36 00:01:32.519 --> 00:01:34.719 I've been to Bergen and had a ton of salmon, 37 00:01:35.159 --> 00:01:37.599 and right now I have no idea what fjord I'm 38 00:01:37.640 --> 00:01:40.239 sailing along, but I'm keeping my eyes open for Michael 39 00:01:40.239 --> 00:01:44.519 Paluin's Norwegian blue parrot and having lots of aquafat. So I'm, 40 00:01:44.560 --> 00:01:46.959 you know, and happy that the debate because it was 41 00:01:47.000 --> 00:01:50.000 at three am local time, I did not watch, although 42 00:01:50.239 --> 00:01:52.959 it everything I've read went exactly. 43 00:01:52.640 --> 00:01:57.200 As I predicted it would. Unfortunately, Charles, well. 44 00:01:57.159 --> 00:02:00.000 I'm not near any fields, although I could be given up. 45 00:02:00.000 --> 00:02:02.280 How much rain we've had in the last ten days. 46 00:02:02.480 --> 00:02:04.920 Is now I live in a place apparently that just 47 00:02:05.000 --> 00:02:07.319 rains constantly all the time, one hundred percent of the time, 48 00:02:07.719 --> 00:02:11.280 all day, all night, whatever the time is, whatever the 49 00:02:11.280 --> 00:02:14.919 moment it rains. So I am sort of surrounded by 50 00:02:14.919 --> 00:02:20.000 honorary feuds like waterlged lawns and cracks and crevices that 51 00:02:20.039 --> 00:02:23.840 are full of water. You meant the debate, didn't you? 52 00:02:23.840 --> 00:02:25.840 You weren't. We're looking for a water update. 53 00:02:26.360 --> 00:02:29.120 Well, no, an aquavied and then a debate update. 54 00:02:29.800 --> 00:02:35.319 Okay, Well, I mean I think that everything in the 55 00:02:35.400 --> 00:02:40.120 debate proceeded as people imagine that it would, in that 56 00:02:41.280 --> 00:02:50.120 Trump's behavior was in keeping with his previous behavior, and 57 00:02:51.080 --> 00:02:55.159 he responded to every single provocation that Harris threw at him, 58 00:02:55.360 --> 00:02:58.400 as she had telegraphed she was going to for three weeks. 59 00:02:59.560 --> 00:03:02.520 She said nothing of consequence, because she never does. She's 60 00:03:02.800 --> 00:03:05.759 flatly incapable of taking a position, thinking through a position, 61 00:03:05.919 --> 00:03:09.759 expressing a position, and the media is a national disgrace 62 00:03:10.240 --> 00:03:15.199 which should not again be trusted to mediate any sort 63 00:03:15.400 --> 00:03:19.159 of important conversation about the future of the United States. 64 00:03:19.159 --> 00:03:23.000 So what happened was precisely what I had imagined would happen, 65 00:03:23.400 --> 00:03:26.599 and I don't think it's going to have an enormous 66 00:03:26.599 --> 00:03:27.719 effect as the result. 67 00:03:28.319 --> 00:03:29.479 No, I don't think so either. 68 00:03:30.520 --> 00:03:33.560 I think the people who a lot of the people 69 00:03:33.560 --> 00:03:35.039 are going to be voting for Trump not because of 70 00:03:35.039 --> 00:03:36.800 what they think he will do, but because what they 71 00:03:36.879 --> 00:03:39.840 assume he won't, and that is the whole panoply of 72 00:03:39.919 --> 00:03:42.280 expansion of the state that they would expect to happen 73 00:03:42.400 --> 00:03:45.280 under either Harris the New or Harris the Old. She's 74 00:03:45.319 --> 00:03:47.120 of the party, she's of the blob, she's of the state. 75 00:03:47.439 --> 00:03:49.560 Air four don't want to vote for her. So they 76 00:03:49.639 --> 00:03:52.479 vote for Trump because they know he will not increase immigration, 77 00:03:52.520 --> 00:03:55.120 he will not raise your taxes, he will not enable 78 00:03:55.120 --> 00:03:56.840 the regulatory state, et cetera, et cetera. So it doesn't 79 00:03:56.879 --> 00:03:58.840 matter what he gets up there and says. It is 80 00:03:58.879 --> 00:04:01.039 just what people are just assume. I know what he's 81 00:04:01.080 --> 00:04:05.360 not gonna do. But there are those who are convinced 82 00:04:05.439 --> 00:04:09.599 that he will bring about, in his second opportunity, authoritarianism galore. 83 00:04:10.560 --> 00:04:14.879 And to that point, well, from the Hitler playbook, of course, 84 00:04:14.879 --> 00:04:16.959 you have to find another to demonize. You have to 85 00:04:17.000 --> 00:04:20.720 have some sort of xenophobic rant, and that's what we got. 86 00:04:20.800 --> 00:04:25.720 I guess two of the takeaways seem to be first 87 00:04:26.120 --> 00:04:29.959 they're eating cats and dogs. Now I have a take 88 00:04:30.000 --> 00:04:33.240 on this in that no, they're not. 89 00:04:33.560 --> 00:04:35.000 They're not. 90 00:04:35.160 --> 00:04:37.800 The Ohio woman who ate a cat was probably mentally ill, 91 00:04:37.839 --> 00:04:41.000 and she was not from Springfield. And the dog thing 92 00:04:41.279 --> 00:04:44.199 may or may not be apocryphal, but it doesn't matter 93 00:04:44.839 --> 00:04:48.360 because that's become sort of a stand in for the 94 00:04:48.519 --> 00:04:51.319 issues that suddenly have been thrust the foe by the 95 00:04:51.360 --> 00:04:54.920 Springfield Haitian situation. So I'd like you guys take on this. 96 00:04:54.959 --> 00:04:57.879 Do you think that everybody on the right is absolutely 97 00:04:58.160 --> 00:05:02.399 fulminating and fizzing and going effervescently crazy over something that 98 00:05:02.639 --> 00:05:05.360 is not happening and is not a problem and if 99 00:05:05.399 --> 00:05:11.439 it was, it'd be fine, or is you know, Stephen, 100 00:05:11.439 --> 00:05:13.000 what do you think from your distance? 101 00:05:13.319 --> 00:05:14.800 What do you think? Yeah? 102 00:05:14.839 --> 00:05:18.040 Well, so, first of all, the real headline here is 103 00:05:18.279 --> 00:05:20.800 I think what the real grabber is. Wait a minute, 104 00:05:20.800 --> 00:05:23.839 This little town of what sixty five thousand people took 105 00:05:23.879 --> 00:05:28.000 in or had imposed on a twenty thousand Haitian immigrants 106 00:05:28.040 --> 00:05:31.399 in a short period of time that nobody knew this, 107 00:05:31.439 --> 00:05:32.000 I think, right? 108 00:05:32.720 --> 00:05:34.560 And you know, I am tempted to go with jokes 109 00:05:34.600 --> 00:05:35.160 because I like to. 110 00:05:35.199 --> 00:05:37.160 I kept thinking, well, there has to be a Simpsons 111 00:05:37.199 --> 00:05:40.480 episode that predicted this for Springfield, because the Simpsons always 112 00:05:40.480 --> 00:05:42.160 seem to be ahead of what was happening in the future. 113 00:05:42.279 --> 00:05:45.519 And a few people sent me suggestions, I want to 114 00:05:45.519 --> 00:05:49.680 make jokes about voodoo economics, you know, I always thought 115 00:05:49.759 --> 00:05:52.519 was the problem with Haiti right in their economy. Then 116 00:05:52.519 --> 00:05:55.639 we didn't. We're supposed to be against that, right. But finally, 117 00:05:55.759 --> 00:05:57.560 and you know, a gat more halfway serious, I think 118 00:05:57.600 --> 00:06:01.360 you're right that this is at the very least has 119 00:06:01.360 --> 00:06:04.720 to be greatly exaggerated. On the other hand, the explosion 120 00:06:04.759 --> 00:06:07.720 of the memes tells us something I think we know 121 00:06:08.000 --> 00:06:11.000 here and in Europe that and you see the neglection 122 00:06:11.079 --> 00:06:16.439 results that there's huge resentment by a broadcross section of Americans, 123 00:06:16.439 --> 00:06:19.680 of Europeans, of the open immigration that's been pushed upon 124 00:06:19.759 --> 00:06:21.959 US diversities, our strength and all the ideology that goes 125 00:06:22.000 --> 00:06:24.839 with us and the media and our political class, and 126 00:06:25.199 --> 00:06:28.240 for large part in both parties have simply ignored it, 127 00:06:28.480 --> 00:06:32.959 repressed it, won't acknowledge it's happening, won't acknowledge any reasonable 128 00:06:33.160 --> 00:06:36.160 concerns about it. And so it doesn't surprise me that 129 00:06:36.240 --> 00:06:39.439 you have a explosion of memes, and you know, they're 130 00:06:39.519 --> 00:06:42.480 just it's unbelievable how this is all spun out this week, 131 00:06:42.600 --> 00:06:44.639 And that's very postmodern in a certain way. Right the 132 00:06:44.680 --> 00:06:49.040 postmodernists say, truth in quotation marks is what's created by 133 00:06:49.279 --> 00:06:51.120 our images and all the rest of that. So in 134 00:06:51.160 --> 00:06:53.839 a certain way, this is the right wing's own postmodernist 135 00:06:53.879 --> 00:06:54.879 revenge on the left. 136 00:06:55.360 --> 00:06:57.279 Exactly. The specifics don't matter. 137 00:06:57.439 --> 00:07:01.519 The picture of a cat Ai generated kitty with an 138 00:07:01.560 --> 00:07:06.480 AK forty seven stands in for a series of legitimate 139 00:07:06.600 --> 00:07:08.560 arguments and conversations about immigrants. 140 00:07:08.560 --> 00:07:09.120 It just does it. 141 00:07:09.240 --> 00:07:11.480 Just that's how the brain wires. So even when he 142 00:07:11.519 --> 00:07:13.439 says they're eating cats and dogs. You may not believe it, 143 00:07:13.480 --> 00:07:14.639 you may not know what, it may not be true. 144 00:07:14.680 --> 00:07:15.319 It doesn't matter. 145 00:07:15.399 --> 00:07:19.920 It connects something to an argument that I don't know 146 00:07:19.959 --> 00:07:21.079 if we're gonna have that conversation. 147 00:07:21.160 --> 00:07:21.560 We'll see. 148 00:07:21.560 --> 00:07:24.879 But Charles, what did you think of the. 149 00:07:25.120 --> 00:07:29.319 I think that unfortunately, what you've just described works the 150 00:07:29.360 --> 00:07:32.560 other way around, which is why, among many other reasons, 151 00:07:32.600 --> 00:07:37.160 I'm not a postmodernist. That is to say that directionally, 152 00:07:38.120 --> 00:07:41.560 the right in the United States and the Republican Party 153 00:07:42.120 --> 00:07:47.199 and Donald Trump are correct about immigration. They're correct about 154 00:07:47.199 --> 00:07:50.319 the problem at the border. They're correct about what all 155 00:07:50.399 --> 00:07:56.199 of these illegal immigrants due to communities that are not 156 00:07:56.920 --> 00:08:02.160 willing or able to absorb them. And if rather than 157 00:08:02.439 --> 00:08:08.240 make that case, which is I think irrefutable, you promulgate 158 00:08:09.360 --> 00:08:15.240 myths or at least unproven claims, you give the people 159 00:08:15.279 --> 00:08:18.560 on the other side of the aisle this unfortunate opportunity 160 00:08:18.639 --> 00:08:22.000 to say that's not true. And because it's not true, 161 00:08:22.000 --> 00:08:24.199 it's a stand in for all the other stuff that 162 00:08:24.279 --> 00:08:26.759 you're saying. You are a peddler of myths and all 163 00:08:26.800 --> 00:08:30.079 your politics are based on lies, which is not true. 164 00:08:30.399 --> 00:08:32.840 So I think that while I have been wildly amused 165 00:08:33.039 --> 00:08:36.879 as well by the memes, and while I agree entirely 166 00:08:37.639 --> 00:08:41.080 with Steve that the fact that they exist does tell 167 00:08:41.120 --> 00:08:43.720 you something that people are frustrated, I think it was 168 00:08:43.759 --> 00:08:47.320 a mistake for the candidate Donald Trump to say that 169 00:08:47.519 --> 00:08:55.919 on stage, because now every headline has been Trump promulgated 170 00:08:55.960 --> 00:09:01.799 a falsehood, and of course that the un lying message 171 00:09:02.279 --> 00:09:05.759 that he's conveying here is correct, and it's one that 172 00:09:05.840 --> 00:09:09.799 is shared by close to a supermajority in the United States. 173 00:09:09.840 --> 00:09:12.399 I mean, we talked about this last week. We now 174 00:09:12.440 --> 00:09:16.360 have this is astonishing given where we were in twenty fifteen, 175 00:09:17.399 --> 00:09:21.399 A majority of Americans sixty percent, who want mass deportations. 176 00:09:21.399 --> 00:09:24.000 That is how fed up they are with the Biden 177 00:09:24.039 --> 00:09:28.519 Harris administration's abdication of responsibility. So I would not, if 178 00:09:28.519 --> 00:09:31.440 I were Donald Trump, have given them any opening whatsoever. 179 00:09:31.559 --> 00:09:34.200 I would have listed things that are far, far worse 180 00:09:34.200 --> 00:09:37.679 than eating cats and dogs, like children being murdered by 181 00:09:37.720 --> 00:09:41.840 people who haven't been vetted, like social services being overrun. 182 00:09:41.919 --> 00:09:46.080 And the bottom line of it is three million people 183 00:09:46.240 --> 00:09:49.600 violating the laws that our Congress passed. I think it 184 00:09:49.639 --> 00:09:51.440 was a mistake, much as I do agree that it 185 00:09:51.480 --> 00:09:55.080 does tell us something about latent feelings toward the border. 186 00:09:55.440 --> 00:09:56.120 I agree with you. 187 00:09:56.679 --> 00:09:58.679 The thing is is that if Trump, I believe he 188 00:09:58.720 --> 00:10:01.600 had enumerated all of those things in a precise, logical 189 00:10:01.600 --> 00:10:04.919 and empirical manner, then the conversation would have shifted to 190 00:10:05.039 --> 00:10:07.320 a it's not a problem and be its xenophobic, because 191 00:10:07.320 --> 00:10:10.080 we know that there's actually no legitimate reason for these 192 00:10:10.120 --> 00:10:12.120 people to believe. Yes, it all comes from a deep 193 00:10:12.120 --> 00:10:14.399 place of xenophobia. I don't think that if Trump had 194 00:10:14.399 --> 00:10:16.480 put it better, we'd be having the conversation. I think 195 00:10:16.480 --> 00:10:20.279 that Trump saying something like that would automatically delegitimize it, 196 00:10:20.279 --> 00:10:23.200 even though we want to have that conversation. 197 00:10:23.440 --> 00:10:24.279 I don't agree. 198 00:10:24.519 --> 00:10:25.240 I don't agree. 199 00:10:25.440 --> 00:10:29.240 I think that if you say that people who are 200 00:10:29.600 --> 00:10:33.240 angry about illegal immigration and xenophobes, then they say, fine, 201 00:10:33.279 --> 00:10:35.200 I'm a xenophobe. I mean, if I could say something 202 00:10:35.320 --> 00:10:39.200 moderately Boordy here, I have been told not personally, but 203 00:10:39.279 --> 00:10:43.840 as part of the political movement to which I belong, 204 00:10:44.039 --> 00:10:46.919 that if I, as a straight man, I'm not willing 205 00:10:46.960 --> 00:10:49.480 to have sex with a trans person, i'm transphobic. Could 206 00:10:49.480 --> 00:10:51.480 you know what my response to that is, James, Then 207 00:10:51.480 --> 00:10:52.360 I'm transphobic. 208 00:10:52.679 --> 00:10:54.440 Yes, I'm not going to go do it. 209 00:10:55.320 --> 00:10:57.639 You're not going to bully me into doing something that 210 00:10:57.679 --> 00:11:00.240 I don't want to do. And I think I think 211 00:11:00.279 --> 00:11:03.320 the same is true increasingly of immigration. Is they say, well, 212 00:11:03.440 --> 00:11:06.559 look at all these racists who are upset about illegal immigration, 213 00:11:06.600 --> 00:11:08.440 and those people say, well, if that makes me a racist, 214 00:11:08.480 --> 00:11:10.600 then I'm a racist. The problem with this is that 215 00:11:10.639 --> 00:11:13.679 no one wants to say I'm a liar, and so 216 00:11:13.919 --> 00:11:18.039 Trump has shifted the ground from something which is quite useful, 217 00:11:18.080 --> 00:11:21.480 which is actually, no, I'm not to Okay, that isn't true, Butt, 218 00:11:21.559 --> 00:11:23.279 and I just I just think it was a mistake 219 00:11:23.279 --> 00:11:24.120 for him to say it. 220 00:11:24.360 --> 00:11:26.120 Yeah, part of the problem, I will give you all. 221 00:11:26.159 --> 00:11:27.720 Let's Ephen get into your sing. I just want to 222 00:11:27.759 --> 00:11:29.679 say I was talking with somebody who's a little bit 223 00:11:29.679 --> 00:11:33.200 liberal on these issues about the wisdom of importing large 224 00:11:33.200 --> 00:11:36.720 amounts of people from a drastically different culture into the 225 00:11:36.720 --> 00:11:40.440 middle of America, and the response was about, Haiti, Well, 226 00:11:40.639 --> 00:11:46.000 they just had an earthquake, which is to say that 227 00:11:46.559 --> 00:11:51.000 because disaster had struck this country, therefore the sensible and 228 00:11:51.159 --> 00:11:53.559 humane thing was, of course to gather. 229 00:11:53.519 --> 00:11:55.440 Them up and drop them in the middle of the country. 230 00:11:56.399 --> 00:11:59.639 That it would be cruel not to do so. And 231 00:12:00.080 --> 00:12:03.039 there's no getting around that. I don't think Steven, you're 232 00:12:03.039 --> 00:12:03.960 gonna say. 233 00:12:04.000 --> 00:12:04.639 Well, I was. 234 00:12:05.360 --> 00:12:07.720 I think we're pretty much in agreement here. But then 235 00:12:07.799 --> 00:12:10.399 there's a couple of fault lines that are interesting. First 236 00:12:10.440 --> 00:12:12.879 of all, just for the record, Charles, although I don't 237 00:12:12.919 --> 00:12:15.600 think any of to tell you this, I'm very anti postmodern. 238 00:12:15.679 --> 00:12:19.600 I just used that illustration because, okay, but I think 239 00:12:19.600 --> 00:12:22.399 I'm a little closer to shames on this for this reason. 240 00:12:22.440 --> 00:12:24.039 And then I think can draw out to a general 241 00:12:24.360 --> 00:12:25.480 evaluation of the debate. 242 00:12:25.960 --> 00:12:29.240 It's look, let me put it this way. 243 00:12:29.519 --> 00:12:33.000 If Trump were the candidate who mastered facts and figures 244 00:12:33.039 --> 00:12:35.799 and weaved in better arguments and did things more conventionally, 245 00:12:35.799 --> 00:12:38.639 he wouldn't be Donald Trump. He'd be Ronda Santis and 246 00:12:38.759 --> 00:12:41.000 much if I might prefer Ron de Santa, says the candidate, 247 00:12:41.080 --> 00:12:43.360 and for his ability to debate and make policy walk 248 00:12:43.480 --> 00:12:46.519 arguments that we think are strong. I'm not sure that 249 00:12:46.879 --> 00:12:49.480 you know, even if the cats and dogs be eaten 250 00:12:49.559 --> 00:12:52.399 is completely ridiculous, which it probably is. I think it 251 00:12:53.360 --> 00:12:55.639 reaches people who say, I don't know if it's true 252 00:12:55.679 --> 00:12:57.840 or not, but there's something really badly wrong, and that 253 00:12:58.320 --> 00:13:01.200 makes the point more powerfully then a list. 254 00:13:01.039 --> 00:13:01.799 Of facts and figures. 255 00:13:01.840 --> 00:13:03.799 Although you're right, I think you should use the real 256 00:13:03.879 --> 00:13:06.200 cases of people who are killed who shouldn't have been 257 00:13:06.320 --> 00:13:08.440 and all the other things. He could do that, but 258 00:13:08.679 --> 00:13:10.960 he's Donald Trump. He's not ever gonna do it. I 259 00:13:11.360 --> 00:13:13.679 keep I get frustrated with all the articles I see 260 00:13:13.720 --> 00:13:16.759 every day saying Trump must do this. He's not gonna 261 00:13:16.799 --> 00:13:19.600 do anything we suggest, Right, He's Trump, That's just the 262 00:13:19.639 --> 00:13:22.519 way he is. And I think, as we said of 263 00:13:22.639 --> 00:13:24.559 Ronald Reagan. We just have to let Trump be Trump, 264 00:13:24.600 --> 00:13:26.799 and he's gonna win or loses Donald Trump. 265 00:13:26.559 --> 00:13:29.399 Yeah, just loses. Donald Trump. Is one of the problems that. 266 00:13:29.840 --> 00:13:33.879 Yeah says, Yeah, I don't understood. 267 00:13:34.679 --> 00:13:36.480 Just don't do the thing for the next debate, and 268 00:13:36.519 --> 00:13:38.399 there won't be one where you do the drinking right 269 00:13:38.519 --> 00:13:40.639 because the drinking game where every time Trump says this, 270 00:13:40.720 --> 00:13:42.320 you take a shotter every time here it says this, 271 00:13:42.360 --> 00:13:44.639 you take a shot, you end up actually corecked the 272 00:13:44.679 --> 00:13:48.360 next day, unless unless, unless. 273 00:13:48.200 --> 00:13:50.559 Maybe you don't want to do drinking games at all. Huh, 274 00:13:50.559 --> 00:13:52.440 but let's say you do. 275 00:13:52.960 --> 00:13:54.960 How can you make sure that you feel fresh after 276 00:13:55.000 --> 00:13:58.919 a night of drinking well with pre alcohol z biotics 277 00:13:58.960 --> 00:14:03.559 pre alcohol probiotic drink. It's the world's first genetically engineered probiotic. 278 00:14:03.960 --> 00:14:04.879 It was invented by. 279 00:14:04.759 --> 00:14:08.320 PhD scientists to tackle those rough mornings after drinking. Here's 280 00:14:08.320 --> 00:14:11.200 how it works. When you drink, alcohol gets converted into 281 00:14:11.240 --> 00:14:14.639 a toxic byproduct in your gut, and it's this byproduct, 282 00:14:14.679 --> 00:14:17.720 not dehydration, that's to blame for your rough next day. 283 00:14:18.399 --> 00:14:21.960 Pre alcohol produces an enzyme to break this byproduct down. 284 00:14:22.320 --> 00:14:24.240 Just remember to take zebiotics with your first drink of 285 00:14:24.240 --> 00:14:27.519 the night. Drink responsibly and you'll feel your best tomorrow. 286 00:14:28.120 --> 00:14:30.200 I kept hearing about this stuff pre alcohol and I 287 00:14:30.240 --> 00:14:32.480 wonder what was actually like, and I tried. 288 00:14:32.240 --> 00:14:34.080 It a long time ago. 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Remember head 299 00:15:04.279 --> 00:15:07.240 to zbiotics dot com slash ricochet and use the code 300 00:15:07.360 --> 00:15:10.120 ricochet had you check off for fifteen percent off. And 301 00:15:10.159 --> 00:15:15.039 we thank zebiotics for sponsoring this The Ricochet Podcast. Joel 302 00:15:15.279 --> 00:15:18.960 James Lollx. Here in Minneapolis, I live in a dense city. 303 00:15:19.200 --> 00:15:21.440 My neighborhood is not It was laid out as a suburb. 304 00:15:21.480 --> 00:15:24.440 At the end of the previous the beginning of the 305 00:15:24.440 --> 00:15:27.679 previous century. It's a very walkable neighborhood. You might even 306 00:15:27.720 --> 00:15:31.720 call it a fifteen minute city. And I have pushedback 307 00:15:31.759 --> 00:15:33.960 sometimes with a lot of my friends who are who 308 00:15:34.039 --> 00:15:36.480 are very concerned about the idea, and I understand why. 309 00:15:36.799 --> 00:15:39.799 But a I like the idea of a fifteen. 310 00:15:39.480 --> 00:15:42.559 Minute city where everything that I can find is walkable 311 00:15:42.600 --> 00:15:45.600 and it's nice, and it's got trees and coffee shops 312 00:15:45.639 --> 00:15:46.360 and cafes. 313 00:15:46.799 --> 00:15:48.919 But it really does stand in for something else. 314 00:15:48.720 --> 00:15:50.279 In the minds of the people who are pushing this 315 00:15:50.320 --> 00:15:53.080 as a future model, doesn't it. There's a lot more 316 00:15:53.159 --> 00:15:56.679 control and observation there walk us through because this is 317 00:15:56.720 --> 00:15:59.080 one of the new urban models that the urbanists are 318 00:15:59.120 --> 00:16:01.679 telling us about. Tell us about the perils and pitfalls 319 00:16:01.720 --> 00:16:05.279 and perhaps advantages of the dreaded fifteen minute city. 320 00:16:05.559 --> 00:16:08.360 Well, there's nothing wrong with the idea of per se 321 00:16:08.440 --> 00:16:12.799 and actually there's some relevance in the sense there's more 322 00:16:12.840 --> 00:16:15.879 people working at home. It's a fifteen minute city because 323 00:16:16.600 --> 00:16:19.600 you don't have to commute at all. I mean, in 324 00:16:19.799 --> 00:16:22.559 many of the neighborhoods I've lived in in particularly when 325 00:16:22.600 --> 00:16:27.600 I lived in Hollywood for many years, almost everybody worked 326 00:16:27.639 --> 00:16:30.039 at home the same thing. Where I live in Orange County. 327 00:16:30.440 --> 00:16:32.639 I think there's one person on the cul de Sac 328 00:16:32.679 --> 00:16:36.320 who actually commutes. So I do live in a fifteen 329 00:16:36.320 --> 00:16:39.240 minute city. The university is an eight minute drive, a 330 00:16:39.320 --> 00:16:41.720 twenty minute bike ride. I mean, there are lots of 331 00:16:41.759 --> 00:16:43.919 ways of doing it. I think what the problem is 332 00:16:43.960 --> 00:16:45.720 that the people who are pushing it are the same 333 00:16:45.759 --> 00:16:50.480 people who push density above everything, want to go into 334 00:16:50.519 --> 00:16:54.840 single family neighborhoods which actually might be reasonably walkable, and 335 00:16:55.000 --> 00:16:58.720 impose a model which the vast majority of people don't want. 336 00:16:58.759 --> 00:17:00.240 I mean, if you take a look at the at 337 00:17:00.240 --> 00:17:04.400 the data, people are moving from high density to low 338 00:17:04.480 --> 00:17:09.079 density by enormous amounts. That's been the case basically for 339 00:17:09.160 --> 00:17:12.480 the better part of at least fifty years, but it's 340 00:17:12.599 --> 00:17:16.480 accelerated in the last five. So the question is what 341 00:17:16.599 --> 00:17:18.200 comes with it? And the question we also have to 342 00:17:18.240 --> 00:17:22.039 ask ourselves is these are the same people who told us, well, 343 00:17:22.039 --> 00:17:24.119 if we build transit in Los Angeles, so we spent 344 00:17:24.160 --> 00:17:27.759 the hunting on it, you know, everybody would be commuting around. 345 00:17:28.119 --> 00:17:30.039 And of course, you know there are now fewer people 346 00:17:30.160 --> 00:17:32.640 writing transit in LA than there was in nineteen eighty 347 00:17:33.039 --> 00:17:36.440 so you know, so I think the it's really the 348 00:17:36.480 --> 00:17:40.319 agenda of the fifteen minute city. Let's face it, the 349 00:17:41.200 --> 00:17:44.920 new urban iss have gotten, you know, a bitter blow 350 00:17:45.279 --> 00:17:49.079 with the growth of online work. The whole thesis is 351 00:17:49.839 --> 00:17:53.880 how do you get into the downtown or the central district. 352 00:17:54.119 --> 00:17:57.079 But now the central district is much less important than 353 00:17:57.119 --> 00:18:00.720 it was five years ago, and infinitely important than it 354 00:18:00.839 --> 00:18:02.039 was twenty years ago. 355 00:18:02.400 --> 00:18:04.079 There are two elements of this fifty minute city that 356 00:18:04.079 --> 00:18:06.119 I think give people the hebes and or the jeebs. 357 00:18:06.240 --> 00:18:08.160 One of them is the density thing that you met 358 00:18:08.160 --> 00:18:11.839 that you mentioned along transit corridors, long busy streets. It 359 00:18:11.880 --> 00:18:15.119 makes absolute perfect sense to build apartment buildings. They're already dense, 360 00:18:15.160 --> 00:18:18.440 and the energy that you get from these corridors, you know, 361 00:18:18.519 --> 00:18:21.559 compounds and you have interesting places. But when you say 362 00:18:21.599 --> 00:18:23.599 it is necessary to put a four place into a 363 00:18:23.640 --> 00:18:27.079 residential neighborhood, what you're saying is we don't like this 364 00:18:27.200 --> 00:18:31.599 paradigm of individuality that the single family home represents. All 365 00:18:31.599 --> 00:18:34.119 of the hatred that they bring to sprawl, they bring 366 00:18:34.160 --> 00:18:36.119 to your neighborhood and say you can't have that, you 367 00:18:36.119 --> 00:18:39.599 shouldn't have it. It's two resources and intense, it's not 368 00:18:39.640 --> 00:18:40.319 communal enough. 369 00:18:40.359 --> 00:18:41.119 We don't like it. 370 00:18:41.160 --> 00:18:42.920 So part of the fifteen minute city is to break 371 00:18:42.960 --> 00:18:46.000 up the individual homes. And the second part is, well, 372 00:18:46.079 --> 00:18:48.039 if you don't need to be outside of your fifteen 373 00:18:48.039 --> 00:18:49.480 minute city, you shouldn't be. 374 00:18:49.680 --> 00:18:53.880 Therefore congestion pricing. Therefore little cameras that will charge you 375 00:18:53.960 --> 00:18:56.359 if you actually leave during certain amounts of hours. 376 00:18:56.599 --> 00:18:58.720 That's the sort of status, top down control that a 377 00:18:58.720 --> 00:19:00.799 lot of people say no, no, thank you. 378 00:19:00.799 --> 00:19:04.599 Right well, and that's that's precisely what they want. I mean, 379 00:19:04.799 --> 00:19:06.200 and I've seen it because I spend a lot of 380 00:19:06.240 --> 00:19:09.359 time in other countries. If you go, for instance, in Sydney, 381 00:19:10.000 --> 00:19:14.720 neighborhoods that were beautiful, single family neighborhoods, easily accessible into 382 00:19:14.799 --> 00:19:19.640 the downtown, walkable, they now they now build, you know, 383 00:19:19.799 --> 00:19:24.720 for you know, four story apartment complexes, completely destroys the 384 00:19:24.799 --> 00:19:29.599 nature of the neighborhood. Terrible for the bird life and 385 00:19:29.160 --> 00:19:33.039 and and the other animals that live in these areas. 386 00:19:34.160 --> 00:19:38.039 It's terrible for the climate because concrete actually makes things hotter. 387 00:19:38.079 --> 00:19:41.480 There's something that has been essentially air brushed out of 388 00:19:41.519 --> 00:19:46.160 the climate debate, which is the heat Island, which many 389 00:19:46.880 --> 00:19:49.880 people my particularly my colleague Ali Maderis, has worked on, 390 00:19:50.319 --> 00:19:53.680 which is basically you end up with much hotter conditions 391 00:19:53.720 --> 00:19:57.519 because it's all concrete. Somehow, I don't understand where where 392 00:19:57.720 --> 00:20:02.160 green goes with concrete from one end to the other. 393 00:20:02.400 --> 00:20:02.440 No. 394 00:20:03.480 --> 00:20:06.559 The other thing that's absurd is this idea that you 395 00:20:06.640 --> 00:20:09.119 have to go break down the last middle class and 396 00:20:09.160 --> 00:20:13.160 working class stable neighborhoods and cities. When we have empty 397 00:20:13.240 --> 00:20:17.960 office buildings and empty shopping malls and empty factories which 398 00:20:18.039 --> 00:20:21.359 could be converted. And as you mentioned earlier, you've got 399 00:20:21.359 --> 00:20:26.559 the transit corridor, you have the roads, you have the electricity. 400 00:20:27.480 --> 00:20:30.279 Why would you have to go into people's neighborhood? And 401 00:20:30.279 --> 00:20:34.680