Speaker 1: Have you ever really stopped to think about just how
Speaker 1: huge the Internet actually is, the part you use every day.
Speaker 1: It's well, it's way bigger and more layered than most
Speaker 1: of us. Picture what you typically see, you know, what
Speaker 1: Google shows you. That's really just the surface, a very
Speaker 1: tip of this massive digital iceberg.
Speaker 2: That's a great way to put it. And today, yeah,
Speaker 2: we're going beneath that surface, dive in deep Exactly. We're
Speaker 2: doing a deep dive into the Internet's hidden layers and
Speaker 2: the really complex, sometimes quite alarming world of cybercrime that
Speaker 2: thrives in those shadows.
Speaker 1: So what's the mission here?
Speaker 2: Our mission is basically to pull back the curtain. We
Speaker 2: want to look at digital criminal activity where it hides,
Speaker 2: the sophisticated tricks attackers use, and the global efforts trying
Speaker 2: to fight back. Okay, and we're drawing all this from
Speaker 2: a really comprehensive source we've been digging into called the
Speaker 2: Encyclopedia of Criminal Activities, and the Deep Web sounds thorough
Speaker 2: it is the main goal here is to give you
Speaker 2: the insights you need to stay well, not just aware,
Speaker 2: but genuinely secure in this digital world that's always always changing.
Speaker 1: Okay, So let's really get into that iceberg idea. You
Speaker 1: mentioned the tip. That's the surface web, right right.
Speaker 2: That's everything the standard search engines like Google can easily
Speaker 2: find an index your news, websites, online stores, social media feeds,
Speaker 2: every day stuff, the every day stuff. But here's the kicker,
Speaker 2: the part that's kind of mind bending. Our sources suggest
Speaker 2: this accessible bit the surface web, it holds less than
Speaker 2: twenty percent of all the information online.
Speaker 1: Wow, less than twenty percent.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's really just the very very peak.
Speaker 1: So what lies beneath?
Speaker 2: Okay, so below that you get into the deep web. Now,
Speaker 2: this isn't automatically shady or anything.
Speaker 1: I think people hear deep web and immediately think bad things.
Speaker 2: Exactly, But it's mostly just content that needs, you know,
Speaker 2: a log in or a direct link. Stuff search engines
Speaker 2: don't index because it's private. Think about your email inbox,
Speaker 2: your online banking, cloud storage, your private accounts. Precisely, it's legitimate,
Speaker 2: necessary information, kept secure, just not open for any web
Speaker 2: crawler to find.
Speaker 1: Got it. And then deeper still.
Speaker 2: Then you reach the layer that yeah, sparks the most
Speaker 2: curiosity and frankly the most concern, the dark web.
Speaker 1: Okay, this is where it gets really hidden.
Speaker 2: This is where the digital shadows really get long. It's
Speaker 2: an encrypted network. You mostly access it using special software.
Speaker 2: The most famous one is probably Tour, the Onion router.
Speaker 1: The Onion router what onion.
Speaker 2: Because it wraps your Internet traffic in multiple layers of
Speaker 2: encryption like an onion. It bounces your connection through a
Speaker 2: whole series of volunteer relays around.
Speaker 1: The world, ah making it hard to trace.
Speaker 2: Incredibly difficult. It's like trying to follow a letter that's
Speaker 2: been rerouted through a thousand different post offices, each putting
Speaker 2: on a new anonymous label.
Speaker 1: Clever is Tour the only way in not the only one.
Speaker 2: There's another network called I two P, the Invisible Internet Project.
Speaker 2: It uses slightly different methods like unidirectional tunnels to add
Speaker 2: even more layers of anonymity, makes users almost like digital ghosts,
Speaker 2: very hard to track down.
Speaker 1: But these tools they're not just for criminals, are.
Speaker 2: They Absolutely not? And that's the crucial point, the kind
Speaker 2: of paradox here. These privacy networks have a dual use.
Speaker 2: They're vital tools for people living under oppressive regimes, activists, journalists,
Speaker 2: ordinary citizens, allowing them to communicate and access information without
Speaker 2: being watched.
Speaker 1: So essential for free speech in some places.
Speaker 2: Definitely, But that same powerful anonymity, that cloak of invisibility, well,
Speaker 2: it also makes these networks a perfect breeding ground for
Speaker 2: illegal activities.
Speaker 1: Okay, so what kind of illegal activities are we talking
Speaker 1: about finding down there?
Speaker 2: Well, the sources we looked at paint a pretty grim
Speaker 2: picture of a thriving black market. You could find all
Speaker 2: sorts of illicit goods and services. Drugs obviously, people might
Speaker 2: remember the Silk Road marketplace.
Speaker 1: Fiasca now that made big news.
Speaker 2: Big news, but also firearms, huge amounts of stolen confidential data,
Speaker 2: credit card numbers, bank logins, even complete identity packages with
Speaker 2: social security numbers. You can buy services that create fake receipts,
Speaker 2: you know, tailored to look real for almost any online purchase.
Speaker 1: Just unbelievable the scale.
Speaker 2: Of it it is. But maybe the most disturbing thing,
Speaker 2: and something we absolutely have to mention, is that our
Speaker 2: sources report the production and sharing of child pornography is
Speaker 2: well common on these protected networks. Oh that's awful. It's horrific.
Speaker 2: The very anonymity designed to protect the vulnerable is tragically
Speaker 2: twisted to facilitate some of the worst crimes. Imaginable.
Speaker 1: That really is sobering. Okay, so we understand a bit
Speaker 1: more about where this happens. Let's shift to the how
Speaker 1: how do we define cybercrime broadly and what are the
Speaker 1: common tactics these criminals use?
Speaker 2: Okay, So cybercrime in general, it's any kind of online
Speaker 2: threat targeting computer devices, networks, it systems. Usually, almost always,
Speaker 2: it involves some kind of malicious software, malware viruses used
Speaker 2: to getting where they shouldn't or to cause image and.
Speaker 1: It covers a lot of ground, a huge.
Speaker 2: Range, everything from stealing intellectual property like company secrets, to
Speaker 2: damaging or wiping out critical data, stealing personal info, financial fraud,
Speaker 2: identity theft, even causing serious harm to someone's reputation online.
Speaker 2: The key goals are usually penetrating controlled systems, and crucially
Speaker 2: for the criminal, staying untraceable.
Speaker 1: Makes sense? And what's driving them? Is it always just
Speaker 1: about making money?
Speaker 2: Money is definitely a huge factor, right, probably the biggest
Speaker 2: motivator we see, but it's not the only one. Revenge
Speaker 2: is a powerful driver too. Revenge Like how think about
Speaker 2: say an employee who got fired and feels wronged, maybe
Speaker 2: publicly humiliated if they have insider knowledge of the company systems.
Speaker 2: They might use it to cause damage, leak data, hurt
Speaker 2: the company's reputation or finances.
Speaker 1: Right, weaponizing their access exactly.
Speaker 2: And then there are other motives, sometimes purely emotional, like
Speaker 2: hate crimes carried out online or driven by ideology.
Speaker 1: But yeah, bottom line, and every cyber criminal has an
Speaker 1: objective money, revenge, disruption, something.
Speaker 2: Okay, let's get into the tactics, the playbook, so to speak.
Speaker 2: Where do they often start. I guess social engineering like
Speaker 2: phishing is pretty common. We've probably all seen those emails
Speaker 2: that look a bit off.
Speaker 1: Oh. Absolutely. Phishing is basically the art of deception online,
Speaker 1: tricking you into giving up sensitive info credit card details,
Speaker 1: bank logins, usually through fake websites or emails designed to
Speaker 1: look exactly like the real thing.
Speaker 2: Very convincing. Sometimes they can be incredibly convincing. Now there's
Speaker 2: mass phishing, which is like casting a wide net hoping
Speaker 2: to catch anyone. But then there's spearfishing.
Speaker 1: Spearfishing sounds more targeted.
Speaker 2: It is much more targeted and much more dangerous. Here,
Speaker 2: the criminals research specific individuals, they find public information, maybe
Speaker 2: from social media or company websites, and craft personalized emails,
Speaker 2: often with malware hidden and attachments the email it's legitimate,
Speaker 2: maybe like it's from a colleague or a known contact,
Speaker 2: designed purely to build trust and get that one specific
Speaker 2: person to click.
Speaker 1: Wow. That takes more effort.
Speaker 2: It does require more human effort than automated mass fishing,
Speaker 2: but the success rate can be alarmingly high because it
Speaker 2: feels so personal and credible.
Speaker 1: I remember those early four nineteen Nigerian scams. That was
Speaker 1: pure deception, wasn't it a form of identity theft built
Speaker 1: on a lie?
Speaker 2: Exactly, a classic example of social engineering before it got
Speaker 2: quite so technically sophisticated. But yeah, beyond trickery, malware itself
Speaker 2: is a massive, constantly evolving threat.
Speaker 1: Malware the malicious software umbrella.
Speaker 2: What falls under that lots of things, but one of
Speaker 2: the most notorious types is ransomware. I think petya want
Speaker 2: to cry those big outbreak.
Speaker 1: Right, and I remember those they locked up computers, didn't they?
Speaker 2: Precisely. Ransomware takes your data hostage. It encrypts your files
Speaker 2: or locks your whole computer, and then demands a ransom payment,
Speaker 2: usually in cryptocurrency, to give you access back.
Speaker 1: And that's becoming more common.
Speaker 2: Dramatically so our sources showed the frequency jumping from attacks
Speaker 2: happening every forty seconds back in twenty seventeen to ever
Speaker 2: twenty four seconds twenty nineteen.
Speaker 1: Every twenty four seconds. That's terrified.
Speaker 2: It's a staggering acceleration. It means for a lot of
Speaker 2: people and businesses it's less a question of if they'll
Speaker 2: get hit and more when, which really changes how you
Speaker 2: have to think about defense. The impact just on healthcare
Speaker 2: alone was projected to quadruple by twenty twenty.
Speaker 1: Just devastating for critical services. Any other major malware types.
Speaker 2: Well, you also have computer worms. These are nasty because
Speaker 2: they can copy themselves and spread across networks automatically, without
Speaker 2: needing you to click anything specific. They just quietly infect
Speaker 2: machine after machine. And interestingly, we're seeing a bit of
Speaker 2: a shift to away from purely automated malware towards attacks
Speaker 2: where humans manually deploy the malware, making them more precise
Speaker 2: and harder to detect initially.
Speaker 1: Okay, what about attacks that don't necessarily steal data but
Speaker 1: just disrupt things like denial of service? I think most
Speaker 1: of us have experienced a website just not loading.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that frustration is often a denial of service or
Speaker 2: DOS attack. It basically floods a server with so much
Speaker 2: traffic that it gets overwhelmed and can't respond to legitimate users.
Speaker 1: Just one attacker causing that.
Speaker 2: That's a basic DOS. But then you have didas distributed
Speaker 2: denial of service that's way more powerful distributed.
Speaker 1: How does that work?
Speaker 2: Imagine instead of one person knocking on the door, you
Speaker 2: have a huge mob, maybe millions of computers all hammering
Speaker 2: the website at once. These are usually bots, computers that
Speaker 2: have been secretly compromised and are controlled by the attacker.
Speaker 2: They create this overwhelming flood of traffic that just forces
Speaker 2: the site offline.
Speaker 1: A digital mob.
Speaker 2: Pretty much, and the scale is increasing. DDoS attacks in
Speaker 2: twenty seventeen were reportedly four times larger than just two
Speaker 2: years earlier. These digital moms are getting bigger and more sophisticated.
Speaker 1: And then there's a newer one. You mentioned. Cryptojacking sounds
Speaker 1: like something from science fiction.
Speaker 2: Doesn't, but it's very real. Cryptojacking is basically hijacking someone
Speaker 2: else's computer processing power without their knowledge, to mind cryptocurrency, So.
Speaker 1: My computer could be working for a criminal eventually.
Speaker 2: Yes, they run mining scripts hidden on websites or delivered
Speaker 2: via malware. It's stealthy, low risk for the criminal compared
Speaker 2: to setting up their own mining rigs, and they target
Speaker 2: anything with processing power. High traffic websites are prime targets.
Speaker 2: There was one piece of malware some mom and rou
Speaker 2: that compromised something like half a million machines just for crypto.
Speaker 1: Mining, turning unsuspecting users into unwitting accomplices.
Speaker 2: Essentially yes, using their electricity and computer resources.
Speaker 1: The real world consequences of all this are just huge,
Speaker 1: aren't they? And it's not just the big corporations or
Speaker 1: governments getting hit.
Speaker 2: No, that's a key point from our sources. While big
Speaker 2: breaches make headlines, the majority of cyber attacks actually target
Speaker 2: small businesses.
Speaker 1: Why them?
Speaker 2: Often because they have fewer resources for robust cybersecurity defenses,
Speaker 2: they're seen as easier targets.
Speaker 1: Makes sense. Are their stats on this?
Speaker 2: Yeah? The FDI tracks something called Business Email compromise or
Speaker 2: BC that's often targeted fishing, leading to fraudulent wire transfers.
Speaker 2: The report showed losses exploding by thirteen hundred percent since
Speaker 2: twenty fifteen, adding up to over three billion dollars.
Speaker 1: Three billion just from tricking people into sending money.
Speaker 2: It's staggering, and it hits individuals too. Microsoft did a
Speaker 2: survey finding that two out of three people had run
Speaker 2: into a technical support scam in the previous year.
Speaker 1: The fake Microsoft support calls.
Speaker 2: Exactly or pop up saying your computer's infected. And behind
Speaker 2: the scenes, cyber criminals are turning out something like one
Speaker 2: point four million phishing websites, constantly trying to mimic legitimate
Speaker 2: sites to steal your logins or money.
Speaker 1: It really paints a picture of a constant, ongoing battle,
Speaker 1: which leads us perfectly into the next part. Vulnerabilities, both
Speaker 1: the humankind and the technical kind, the manipulations, and how
Speaker 1: this whole threat landscape keeps evolving. I suspect a lot
Speaker 1: of this comes down to us, doesn't it our behavior online?
Speaker 2: It absolutely does. Think about how much we willingly share
Speaker 2: on social media, birthdays, where we live, pictures of our family,
Speaker 2: are pets, names.
Speaker 1: Yeah, the stuff security questions often ask about.
Speaker 2: Precisely. Cyber criminals can easily gather this seemingly harmless info
Speaker 2: and piece together detailed profiles. It puts individuals and even
Speaker 2: their families at real risk. And there's this other factor too,
Speaker 2: something called privacy fatigue.
Speaker 1: Privacy fatigue. What's that.
Speaker 2: It's basically where people just get tired of worrying about
Speaker 2: online privacy all the time. There are so many data breaches,
Speaker 2: so many complex settings, that they kind of give up
Speaker 2: and just accept the risks in return for say, personalized
Speaker 2: ads or convenient services.
Speaker 1: I can see that happening, just feeling overwhelmed exactly.
Speaker 2: It's a trade off people make often without fully realizing
Speaker 2: the potential consequences, and.
Speaker 1: That fatigue, that willingness to share it opens the door
Speaker 1: for more direct exploitation, right like online harassment.
Speaker 2: Definitely, things like cyber stocking where someone uses repeated online
Speaker 2: messages or emails to frighten a harass a victim, or
Speaker 2: cyber bullying using the internet to bully others, which can
Speaker 2: even happen in the workplace, and cyber defamation spreading lies
Speaker 2: online to wreck someone's reputation.
Speaker 1: It's weaponizing information and access, it is.
Speaker 2: And it can go to some really dark places. Our
Speaker 2: sources mention things like Internet death groups which prey on
Speaker 2: vulnerable young people, maybe exploiting feelings of hopelessness or disillusionment.
Speaker 1: That's deeply disturbing.
Speaker 2: It is, And on a different note, technology also makes
Speaker 2: things like academic cheating easier, or even document forgery, like
Speaker 2: faking papers to help someone leave their home country under
Speaker 2: false pretenses. It's interesting too, how views on academic integrity
Speaker 2: can really differ across cultures.
Speaker 1: We've also seen these massive data breaches become almost routine news.
Speaker 1: You mentioned Yahoo earlier.
Speaker 2: Yeah, the twenty fourteen Yahoo breach was enormous, three billion
Speaker 2: user accounts affected. That's set a terrifying record. Then Facebook
Speaker 2: had its big data leak in twenty eighteen involving Cambridge Analytica,
Speaker 2: impacting millions.
Speaker 1: And it's not just tech companies.
Speaker 2: Healthcare too, Absolutely critical sectors are prime targets. Singapore had
Speaker 2: a major cyber attack on its health system, affecting one
Speaker 2: point five million patients, including their prime minister. The UK's
Speaker 2: NHS has faced numerous data breaches. These aren't just technical glitches.
Speaker 2: They seriously erode public trust.
Speaker 1: And now we're seeing artificial intelligence enter the picture, making
Speaker 1: things even more complex.
Speaker 2: Right. AI is becoming a powerful tool. Unfortunately for criminals too.
Speaker 2: We're seeing AI used to create.
Speaker 1: Deep fakes, those fake videos that look incredibly real.
Speaker 2: Exactly generating convincing but totally fabricated video and audio. There
Speaker 2: are huge concerns about how this could be used for
Speaker 2: political disinformation scams, or even horrifyingly, to create synthetic child pornography.
Speaker 1: That's a nightmare scenario, it is.
Speaker 2: And researchers have even developed something called deep master prints.
Speaker 2: These are AI generated sort of universal fingerprint templates that
Speaker 2: can actually match a significant percentage of real fingerprints in
Speaker 2: a database. One study showed they could match seventy seven
Speaker 2: percent of users with only a one percent false match rate.
Speaker 1: Wow. So much for biometric security being foolproof.
Speaker 2: It raises seria questions, and beyond that, AI is being
Speaker 2: programmed to act as intelligent scanners, not just looking for
Speaker 2: known security holes, but actively finding new undiscovered vulnerabilities in software.
Speaker 2: It's like weaponizing AI's learning ability against our own defenses.
Speaker 1: Which brings us straight to fake news and disinformation That
Speaker 1: really exploded into public consciousness around the twenty sixteen US election,
Speaker 1: didn't it.
Speaker 2: It certainly gained huge prominence then, and it's incredibly damaging.
Speaker 2: It's not just about spreading falsehoods. It's used to actively
Speaker 2: undermine trust in institutions, fuel social tensions, and interfere directly
Speaker 2: in political processes and.
Speaker 1: Social media plays a big role.
Speaker 2: A massive role. Social media often acts like an echo
Speaker 2: chamber where you mainly see views you already agree with,
Speaker 2: reinforcing your biases. And it's also an amplifier, spreading information
Speaker 2: true or false incredibly quickly and widely. This combination really
Speaker 2: fuels political polarization.
Speaker 1: We saw documented cases of state actors getting involved too.
Speaker 2: Yes, the Russian state sponsored internet interference in the twenty
Speaker 2: six US election is a prime example of how disinformation
Speaker 2: can be used as a tool in sort of hybrid warfare.
Speaker 2: It's cheap, it's easy to spread via social media, and
Speaker 2: it can be very effective.
Speaker 1: And maybe the most disturbing intersection of technology and crime
Speaker 1: is how it's used in human trafficking and child exploitation.
Speaker 2: This is a truly devastating area. Traffickers exploit the Internet's
Speaker 2: global reach for both recruiting victims and advertising them. They
Speaker 2: use social media, chat rooms, online classified ads like the
Speaker 2: now defunct backpage dot com to find, lure, and sell
Speaker 2: vulnerable people.
Speaker 1: Are there numbers on how prevalent this is.
Speaker 2: One INNGO Thorn reported that a shocking sixty three percent
Speaker 2: of identified child victims were advertised online. Sixty three percent.
Speaker 1: That's horrific. How do they manipulate victims online?
Speaker 2: There's something called luring communication theory LCT. It outlines the
Speaker 2: steps online predators often take. It usually starts with grooming,
Speaker 2: building trust, making the victim feel special, isolating them. Then
Speaker 2: they might move to communicative desensitization, gradually introducing inappropriate topics
Speaker 2: and make them seem normal, and finally using verbal lead ins,
Speaker 2: pushing boundaries with sexually suggestive language. It's a calculated, manipulative
Speaker 2: process that's awful.
Speaker 1: It's clear the threats are huge, constantly changing, and coming
Speaker 1: from all angles. So face with all this, the big
Speaker 1: question is what can we actually do? How do we
Speaker 1: defend ourselves or businesses or society on this digital frontier.
Speaker 2: It's a multi layered answer. Starting with individual actions, there
Speaker 2: are some basic but absolutely crucial best practices.
Speaker 1: Okay, what are the essentials?
Speaker 2: First, be incredibly suspicious of unknown links or attachments in emails.
Speaker 2: That's ground zero for phishing and malware. Don't click if
Speaker 2: you're unsure. Second, keep your software updated, your operating system,
Speaker 2: your browser, everything. Those updates often contain vital security patches
Speaker 2: that fix known.
Speaker 1: Holes, like digital vaccines exactly.
Speaker 2: Third, use a firewall. It acts like a filter, blocking
Speaker 2: malicious traffic trying to get into your network. Fourth, passwords,
Speaker 2: Please please use strong, unique passwords.
Speaker 1: Not password one two three or one two, three, four, five, six.
Speaker 2: Definitely not think long at least ten maybe fifteen characters,
Speaker 2: mix uppercase, lowercase numbers, symbols, or even better, use a
Speaker 2: pass hraise a short, memorable sentence, and don't reuse passwords
Speaker 2: across different sites.
Speaker 1: Good advice anything else?
Speaker 2: For individuals, Yes, backups Regularly backup your important data, photos, documents,
Speaker 2: whatever matters to an external drive or secure cloud service.
Speaker 2: If ransomware hits, having a backup means you don't have
Speaker 2: to pay to get your stuff back.
Speaker 1: Okay, that's the individual level. What about organizations? They face
Speaker 1: bigger threats, presumably need bigger defenses.
Speaker 2: They absolutely do. For organizations, it's about continuous risk assessment
Speaker 2: and implementing robust security controls across the board. Making sure
Speaker 2: all hardware and software is updated, including antivirus is baseline.
Speaker 1: Moving beyond just passwords too.
Speaker 2: Yes, definitely using more complex authentication is key. Multi factor
Speaker 2: authentication MFA should be standard wherever possible, combining something you
Speaker 2: know password with something you have like a code from
Speaker 2: your phone or something you are like a fingerprint. There's
Speaker 2: even advanced stuff like keystroke biometrics analyzing the unique rhythm
Speaker 2: of how you type.
Speaker 1: Wow, and specific industries like banking must have extra layers,
Speaker 1: oh for sure.
Speaker 2: Debunking relies heavily on things like SSL certificates for encrypted connections,
Speaker 2: strict security hitters, and systems like certificate transparency to constantly
Speaker 2: verify website identities and prevents spoofing or man of the
Speaker 2: moddle attacks where someone intercepts.
Speaker 1: Your connection and I guess AI is being used defensively too.
Speaker 2: Yes, Increasingly, deep learning and machine learning are powering advanced
Speaker 2: anti fraud systems. They can analyze transaction patterns in real time,
Speaker 2: spotting anomalies and suspicious behavior much faster than humans could.
Speaker 1: What about things like blockchain and smart contracts? They have
Speaker 1: vulnerabilities too, right they do.
Speaker 2: Smart contract code needs rigorous auditing. Bugs can be catastrophic.
Speaker 2: Remember that Ethereum contract flawback in twenty sixteen cost about
Speaker 2: eighty mins million dollars due to a vulnerability, and even
Speaker 2: similar tools like capchas those prove your human tests are
Speaker 2: important for stopping automated bots. From scraping websites or launching
Speaker 2: brute force.
Speaker 1: Attacks, So lots of technical defenses. But you mentioned earlier
Speaker 1: cybercrime ignores borders while laws are usually national. That sounds
Speaker 1: like a huge mismatch.
Speaker 2: It's a fundamental challenge. The borderless nature of cybercrime makes
Speaker 2: international cooperation absolutely essential, but it's really difficult to achieve
Speaker 2: effectively because legal systems, investigative powers, and even definitions of
Speaker 2: crimes vary so much from country to country.
Speaker 1: So what does the legal landscape actually look like? Is
Speaker 1: there any global standard?
Speaker 2: Not really a single standard, more patchwork. You have major
Speaker 2: efforts like the EU's General Data Protection Regulation GDPR, which
Speaker 2: came into force in twenty eighteen that set a high
Speaker 2: bar for data privacy and consent with big fines for
Speaker 2: companies that fail to comply.
Speaker 1: That made waves globally, it really did.
Speaker 2: Then the UK you have the Computer Misuse Act, updated
Speaker 2: in twenty fifteen to bring harsher penalties for serious cyber offenses.
Speaker 2: Australia strengthened its laws in twenty twelve. Malaysia was actually
Speaker 2: quite early in enacting cyber laws, but still faces challenges
Speaker 2: with enforcement expertise. Though they were developing a national policy,
Speaker 2: and the US has laws like the Patriot Act and
Speaker 2: the Cloud Act, which controversially allow for searching data even
Speaker 2: if it's stored overseas.
Speaker 1: So a real mix of approaches and the goalposts keep
Speaker 1: moving constantly.
Speaker 2: New challenges keep popping up. How do you effectively define
Speaker 2: and regulate something like digital piracy? It's still debated. There's
Speaker 2: the ongoing tension between protecting anonymous speech online which could
Speaker 2: be vital, versus preventing illegal trade and harmful content that anonymity.
Speaker 1: Enables difficult balances to strike very and.
Speaker 2: There's a growing recognition that we need specific laws addressing
Speaker 2: cyber violence against women and girls, Yeah, THEAWG not just
Speaker 2: relying on general VAWG laws. Plus there are calls for
Speaker 2: the tech industry itself, ISPs social media platforms to take
Speaker 2: more responsibility and cooperate proactively in tackling illegal behavioralf on
Speaker 2: their platforms.
Speaker 1: And the whole dark web. Ethical dilemma remains.
Speaker 2: Absolutely How do you balance the legitimate need for privacy
Speaker 2: and free expression that tools like tour provide against the
Speaker 2: undeniable fact that criminals exploit that same technology. There are
Speaker 2: no easy answers.
Speaker 1: So thinking even bigger picture, maybe even the cyber warfare.
Speaker 1: Are there international efforts to respond at that level?
Speaker 2: There are initiatives. Google's Project Zero, for instance, is a
Speaker 2: private sector effort, but it focuses on finding critical vulnerabilities
Speaker 2: before attackers can exploit them, aiming to make the whole
Speaker 2: ecosystem safer. There are also discussions about concepts like establishing
Speaker 2: cyber buffer zones as part of international peacekeeping, but that's
Speaker 2: highly theoretical right now. Getting global agreement and the necessary
Speaker 2: technical expertise for something like that is incredibly challenging.
Speaker 1: It really shows that securing cyberspace is this constant, complex,
Speaker 1: global effort happening largely out of sight exactly.
Speaker 2: It's an ongoing battle on multiple fronts.
Speaker 1: Wow, we've covered so much ground today, from that visible
Speaker 1: tip of the iceberg, the surface web, down into the
Speaker 1: deep and dark webs, exploring the criminals tactics, the vulnerabilities
Speaker 1: they exploit, and the ways we're trying to defend ourselves.
Speaker 1: It's just it's a world that's incredibly complex, constantly shifting,
Speaker 1: and driven by the ingenuity of both the packers and
Speaker 1: the defenders.
Speaker 2: It really is, and it underlines how this dark side
Speaker 2: isn't some far off abstract threat. It's deeply interwoven with
Speaker 2: our technology, reflecting both human ingenuity and unfortunately, human flaws
Speaker 2: and motivations. It shows how quickly that line between useful
Speaker 2: innovation and dangerous exploitation can become blurred.
Speaker 1: Which leaves us with a pretty challenging thought to end on,
Speaker 1: doesn't it. As technology gets more and more tangled up
Speaker 1: in every part of our lives, our money, our relationships,
Speaker 1: our health, our politics, are we maybe inadvertently trading away
Speaker 1: fundamental values like privacy or security just for the sake
Speaker 1: of digital convenience. And maybe more importantly, what's our shared responsibility?
Speaker 1: Yours mine? Everyone listening in trying to build an online
Speaker 1: future that's not just innovative, but also secure and well
Speaker 1: ethical to