WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.280 --> 00:00:03.439 Oh hey, it's the stranger's dog who just licked your mouth. 2 00:00:03.560 --> 00:00:07.200 Ali Ward, and let's turn our gaze and ears to 3 00:00:07.280 --> 00:00:10.599 the sky currently at the moment, one hundred and fifty 4 00:00:10.679 --> 00:00:14.560 nine million miles away to the planet of Venus. Taking 5 00:00:14.640 --> 00:00:16.760 us on that journey. Is one of the most charming 6 00:00:17.280 --> 00:00:23.079 and informatively enthusiastic ologists in planetary history. A global geologist 7 00:00:23.320 --> 00:00:26.359 who studies both Earth and the other orbs in our 8 00:00:26.359 --> 00:00:29.559 solar system, with a focus on what Venus can tell 9 00:00:29.640 --> 00:00:33.119 us about our own home. And They graduated from Carlton College, 10 00:00:33.200 --> 00:00:35.439 got a master's from the University of Montana and a 11 00:00:35.479 --> 00:00:39.320 PhD from UCLA, before becoming a professor at Southern Methodist 12 00:00:39.399 --> 00:00:42.799 University and then heading to the University of Minnesota Duluth 13 00:00:43.200 --> 00:00:47.759 as a mcnight Presidential Endowed Professor of Earth and Planetary Scientists. 14 00:00:48.000 --> 00:00:50.920 They have worked for the US Geological Survey and done 15 00:00:51.079 --> 00:00:56.200 field work from Antarctica to the Arctic Yukon Territory. And 16 00:00:56.359 --> 00:00:58.799 just a little quick warning, you will fall in love 17 00:00:58.840 --> 00:01:02.000 with them and rock and Venus. But before we cast 18 00:01:02.039 --> 00:01:04.920 that spell, let's thank the folks who sent in great 19 00:01:05.000 --> 00:01:07.519 questions for them via Patreon dot com. Slash Ologies where 20 00:01:07.519 --> 00:01:09.239 you two can support the show for as little as 21 00:01:09.280 --> 00:01:12.239 a dollar a month and send your burning nine hundred 22 00:01:12.280 --> 00:01:14.680 degree questions. Thank you also to everyone out there in 23 00:01:14.719 --> 00:01:17.439 ologies merch from ologiesmerch dot com and of course, for 24 00:01:18.000 --> 00:01:20.120 zero dollars a month, you can support the show just 25 00:01:20.159 --> 00:01:22.879 by reviewing it and I read all the reviews. I 26 00:01:22.959 --> 00:01:24.560 prove it with a recent one like this one from 27 00:01:24.599 --> 00:01:27.560 listener and nurse Sara nine to sixteen, who wrote that 28 00:01:27.599 --> 00:01:29.959 the show takes listeners on a magic school bus like 29 00:01:30.040 --> 00:01:34.159 auditory journey, spanning from the smallest molecules to the largest 30 00:01:34.239 --> 00:01:37.439 existential topics. And Sara nine to sixteen, thank you for that, 31 00:01:37.519 --> 00:01:39.599 and thank you Lee E who tells their group therapy 32 00:01:39.640 --> 00:01:42.799 clients to listen. Hey, everyone who leaves reviews, it truly 33 00:01:42.799 --> 00:01:44.959 means the world keeps me going. I appreciate them and 34 00:01:45.000 --> 00:01:47.640 it helps boost the show so much, which means we're 35 00:01:47.680 --> 00:01:50.120 able to donate to a cause of theologists choosing each week. 36 00:01:50.159 --> 00:01:51.560 Thank you to sponsors of the show. 37 00:01:52.319 --> 00:01:54.359 Drivers know what trouble sounds like? 38 00:01:54.799 --> 00:01:59.000 No? No, okay forward? 39 00:02:00.239 --> 00:02:05.799 Oh no no, That's why they get covered from Ireland's 40 00:02:05.840 --> 00:02:08.840 soundest car insurance provider, Supervalue Insurance. 41 00:02:09.159 --> 00:02:11.439 Thanks for calling US fin and don't beat yourself up 42 00:02:11.439 --> 00:02:14.319 about it. 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A 59 00:02:52.680 --> 00:02:56.000 keen of force sore throat spray made from echinasia and 60 00:02:56.080 --> 00:02:59.919 sage herbs and designed to reach irritated parts of the throat, 61 00:03:00.000 --> 00:03:02.919 available from health stores and pharmacies nationwide. 62 00:03:03.199 --> 00:03:07.159 Always read the leaflet okay from the smallest molecules to 63 00:03:07.240 --> 00:03:10.080 the planets themselves. Let's blast off into this instant classic 64 00:03:10.120 --> 00:03:12.879 an episode that had me beaming every second of the interview. 65 00:03:13.159 --> 00:03:16.599 Here we go into the world of mission recon noodle data, 66 00:03:16.879 --> 00:03:21.439 melting machinery, swimming in air, baby siblings, goddess vibes, men, 67 00:03:21.840 --> 00:03:24.919 women and off the mark, self help books, sci fi, 68 00:03:25.280 --> 00:03:30.840 How to Endure a long day, atmosphere of old factory wonders, 69 00:03:30.879 --> 00:03:32.759 and whether or not it's a good idea to visit 70 00:03:32.800 --> 00:03:37.879 the Planet of Love with planetary geologists, comparative planetologist, Galactic 71 00:03:37.919 --> 00:04:01.360 treasure and venosologist doctor Vicki Hansen. So I'm trying to 72 00:04:01.360 --> 00:04:03.560 figure out there is an ology for this, right like, 73 00:04:03.599 --> 00:04:05.599 it's is it Venuology? 74 00:04:05.960 --> 00:04:09.240 Well, you know, that's really an interesting question because some 75 00:04:09.319 --> 00:04:13.479 say it's like Venusian or that those are the people. 76 00:04:13.680 --> 00:04:17.519 So venus ology, you know, I think would go just 77 00:04:17.600 --> 00:04:19.160 as well as anything than good. 78 00:04:20.079 --> 00:04:23.720 Are there a lot of people who are out there 79 00:04:23.759 --> 00:04:26.199 studying Venus? Do you all get together? Do you all 80 00:04:26.199 --> 00:04:28.480 know each other? Is it a relatively small number compared 81 00:04:28.519 --> 00:04:28.959 to Mars. 82 00:04:29.639 --> 00:04:32.439 Yes, it is a small number compared to Mars. It 83 00:04:32.519 --> 00:04:37.040 is an expanding community. When we had the Magellan Mission. 84 00:04:37.360 --> 00:04:40.680 Back in the late eighties early nineties. It was really 85 00:04:40.879 --> 00:04:45.399 a small community and we all met in one room 86 00:04:45.519 --> 00:04:49.480 at Caltech and Pasadena. Wow, you know. And now it's expanded, 87 00:04:49.519 --> 00:04:52.639 but it will never be as big as Mars, I'm sure, 88 00:04:52.839 --> 00:04:55.680 which it deserves to be much bigger, because Venus is 89 00:04:55.800 --> 00:04:56.680 much more exciting. 90 00:04:58.600 --> 00:05:01.920 And which is to us. I understand, Venus is larger 91 00:05:01.959 --> 00:05:04.160 than Mars. Yes, which is closer. 92 00:05:04.639 --> 00:05:07.519 Venus is closer to Us, and Venus is between Us 93 00:05:07.560 --> 00:05:08.079 and the Sun. 94 00:05:08.680 --> 00:05:12.839 And then we've got Mercury Venus Us, yes. 95 00:05:12.279 --> 00:05:15.319 Mars exactly, and then the asteroid belt, and then we 96 00:05:15.399 --> 00:05:16.879 go out to the bigger planets. 97 00:05:17.399 --> 00:05:21.439 And how big is Venus in comparison to Earth. 98 00:05:21.680 --> 00:05:25.560 It's about eighty percent of the size of Earth. So 99 00:05:25.879 --> 00:05:30.240 it's just it's little sister by a not much amount, 100 00:05:30.680 --> 00:05:32.639 but that could be important. 101 00:05:33.079 --> 00:05:36.759 So Venus closer to Earth than Mars, larger than Mars, 102 00:05:37.120 --> 00:05:39.439 and like a sibling that's like an inch and a 103 00:05:39.519 --> 00:05:43.480 half shorter than us. But mysterious and overlooked. Why do 104 00:05:43.560 --> 00:05:46.680 you think people are so hung up on Mars more 105 00:05:46.720 --> 00:05:47.959 so than Venus. 106 00:05:48.000 --> 00:05:50.720 Well, first of all, they say men are from Mars 107 00:05:50.720 --> 00:05:52.560 and women are from yes, So there we go. 108 00:05:53.079 --> 00:05:58.160 Mars distant red, named for the god of war, Venus 109 00:05:58.560 --> 00:06:02.000 bright in the sky, the spectacular goddess of love, and 110 00:06:02.040 --> 00:06:04.160 the only planet in our solar system named after our 111 00:06:04.160 --> 00:06:08.879 female deity. But in terms of attention battles over beauty, 112 00:06:09.319 --> 00:06:10.279 it figures. 113 00:06:10.800 --> 00:06:13.079 No more need to be said. But I think it's 114 00:06:13.160 --> 00:06:19.399 because there's this incredible search for life, and so people 115 00:06:19.439 --> 00:06:21.920 think that Mars might have a better chance of life. 116 00:06:21.920 --> 00:06:25.800 In fact, I'm not sure that's true. Another reason I 117 00:06:25.839 --> 00:06:29.480 think is just because Venus, like a woman, she keeps 118 00:06:29.480 --> 00:06:33.279 herself shrouded in clouds, and so she's called the morning 119 00:06:33.360 --> 00:06:36.839 star in the evening Star, and that's because the sun's 120 00:06:37.079 --> 00:06:39.519 light is reflected off of her surface, and so she 121 00:06:39.600 --> 00:06:42.920 really looks like a star. And we can't see through 122 00:06:43.000 --> 00:06:48.279 those clouds unless we have radar, and radar was not 123 00:06:48.519 --> 00:06:53.519 developed until really quite recently, especially compared to telescope. So 124 00:06:53.560 --> 00:06:57.199 we can with telescopes actually see the surface of Mars 125 00:06:57.600 --> 00:07:01.920 and Venus. We need radar to see through otherwise we 126 00:07:02.079 --> 00:07:04.120 just see these clouds and nothing else. 127 00:07:04.920 --> 00:07:06.279 What are those clouds made of? 128 00:07:06.759 --> 00:07:10.680 Those clouds are made up of mostly CO two and 129 00:07:10.720 --> 00:07:14.120 then some sulfuric acid and a tiny bit of water 130 00:07:14.439 --> 00:07:17.920 and other things thrown into the mix. The cloud bank 131 00:07:18.079 --> 00:07:22.160 is really, really thick and sits much higher above the 132 00:07:22.199 --> 00:07:26.120 planet than our own cloud bank. Way up there, very 133 00:07:26.240 --> 00:07:29.720 very dense and actually is a greenhouse effect that keeps 134 00:07:29.720 --> 00:07:33.519 a lot of heat into the planet. But what's really 135 00:07:33.600 --> 00:07:38.120 cool about those clouds is that there are layers within them. 136 00:07:38.160 --> 00:07:42.879 Because they're so thick, there's convection or flow because they're 137 00:07:43.000 --> 00:07:47.000 a gas, and that's actually where there might be life 138 00:07:47.199 --> 00:07:51.600 on Venus in the clouds, in the clouds, because the 139 00:07:51.680 --> 00:07:55.480 surfaces we'll find out is super hot, super dry, not 140 00:07:55.600 --> 00:07:57.600 good for life as we define it. 141 00:07:57.920 --> 00:08:00.120 So that's on land maybe not. 142 00:08:00.120 --> 00:08:03.279 Does it really exist, but up in the clouds, if 143 00:08:03.319 --> 00:08:05.319 we were up in the cloud bank, it would be 144 00:08:05.519 --> 00:08:07.800 about the same temperature and pressure as you and I 145 00:08:07.920 --> 00:08:11.240 sitting here. Oh, so we could exist in the clouds, 146 00:08:11.439 --> 00:08:14.720 maybe not so much oxygen at the surface. We'd be 147 00:08:14.759 --> 00:08:17.759 squashed flat because it would be like being under a 148 00:08:17.800 --> 00:08:22.120 couple of kilometers of water in the ocean. And it's 149 00:08:22.160 --> 00:08:27.399 basically nine hundred degrees fahrenheit, so super hot. Big temperature 150 00:08:27.439 --> 00:08:31.920 differential between here and Duluth, Minnesota, for sure. But in 151 00:08:31.959 --> 00:08:36.720 the clouds because they have the circulation. You could have again, 152 00:08:36.799 --> 00:08:39.879 not life like us, but life existing in those clouds 153 00:08:39.919 --> 00:08:42.759 and they just ride those convection cells. But they also 154 00:08:43.120 --> 00:08:46.480 the different chemicals that are in the clouds they could 155 00:08:46.519 --> 00:08:50.799 be feeding on and so there could be life there. 156 00:08:51.000 --> 00:08:54.080 We don't know, but there could. Isn't that cool? 157 00:08:54.440 --> 00:08:56.639 Yes, I mean, let me go get a scoop of this? 158 00:08:56.759 --> 00:08:57.720 How do we find out? 159 00:08:58.000 --> 00:09:01.720 Well, yeah, we need various missions, and so people have 160 00:09:01.799 --> 00:09:03.879 tried to say, maybe we can look into the clouds 161 00:09:03.919 --> 00:09:10.000 and see if there are geochemical indicators. There's nothing absolutely unique, 162 00:09:10.120 --> 00:09:12.799 so some things that could be but that's not the 163 00:09:12.840 --> 00:09:17.279 only way get a scoop. That hasn't been planned yet. 164 00:09:17.679 --> 00:09:21.200 So the vapor cloak around Venus may hold the answer, 165 00:09:21.240 --> 00:09:24.080 and by answer I mean aliens. Vicky says that there 166 00:09:24.159 --> 00:09:27.480 are various missions whose sites are set in the clouds 167 00:09:27.720 --> 00:09:29.919 and even going through the clouds and down to the 168 00:09:29.960 --> 00:09:33.600 surface like kind of diving through whipped cream to get 169 00:09:33.600 --> 00:09:35.639 into an ice cream Sunday, but one that is four 170 00:09:35.720 --> 00:09:39.039 hundred and sixty four degrees celsius. We're a blistering eight 171 00:09:39.159 --> 00:09:42.399 hundred and sixty seven degrees fahrenheit, But. 172 00:09:42.360 --> 00:09:44.840 That would just be one shot and would just give 173 00:09:44.919 --> 00:09:50.320 us kind of one pass. So but yeah, missions are 174 00:09:50.480 --> 00:09:53.120 what we need to do to explore it. And that's 175 00:09:53.159 --> 00:09:55.799 why we need more interest in Venus than perhaps. 176 00:09:55.440 --> 00:09:57.559 Mars, which is where you come in. 177 00:09:58.600 --> 00:10:03.320 Well, it's just such a fascinating planet. But fundamentally as 178 00:10:03.399 --> 00:10:05.960 humans and for myself, what I really want to learn 179 00:10:06.000 --> 00:10:09.879 about is Earth, and Venus has so much more to 180 00:10:09.960 --> 00:10:13.039 teach us about the Earth than Mars does. And you 181 00:10:13.080 --> 00:10:16.039 say why, because it is back to what you said, 182 00:10:16.120 --> 00:10:19.120 it's about the same size, it's about the same density. 183 00:10:19.679 --> 00:10:22.440 That means it's made up of generally the same materials. 184 00:10:22.679 --> 00:10:26.679 It's a similar proximity to the Sun. And they were very, 185 00:10:26.799 --> 00:10:29.720 very similar when they were born. I don't know if 186 00:10:29.720 --> 00:10:33.559 you have sisters. I do, and you know we're similar. 187 00:10:34.080 --> 00:10:38.120 Our photographs are interchangeable. Now we've gone completely different ways. 188 00:10:38.480 --> 00:10:42.360 But Mars is this tiny little weenie bean. You know, 189 00:10:42.519 --> 00:10:48.000 it's nothing like the Earth. You know, so size matters 190 00:10:48.039 --> 00:10:50.559 in terms of how planets work, because that's how much 191 00:10:50.679 --> 00:10:53.080 heat they have and how do they get rid of heat. 192 00:10:53.799 --> 00:10:56.679 If you take a big potato, put it in the microwave, 193 00:10:56.960 --> 00:10:58.840 it'll retain its heat for a long time. If you 194 00:10:58.879 --> 00:11:02.120 take a little potato cool off really quickly. Well, the 195 00:11:02.159 --> 00:11:08.039 way that that heat escapes is the mode of tectanism 196 00:11:08.240 --> 00:11:12.960 and volcanism or tectonics, not to be confused with plate tectonics. 197 00:11:13.000 --> 00:11:17.879 That's Earth's kind of tectonism. Venus has tectonics but not 198 00:11:18.080 --> 00:11:23.240 plate tectonics. So you immediately say, well why not why 199 00:11:23.279 --> 00:11:27.279 doesn't it have plate tectonics, or more why does Earth 200 00:11:27.360 --> 00:11:30.919 have plate tectonics? And so we can learn so so 201 00:11:31.039 --> 00:11:35.840 much more about Earth by studying Venus than we can Mars. 202 00:11:36.679 --> 00:11:39.360 Well what is a tectonic and how is it different 203 00:11:39.360 --> 00:11:40.240 than a plate tectonic? 204 00:11:40.320 --> 00:11:43.399 Okay, so let's talk what plate tectonics is, because we 205 00:11:43.720 --> 00:11:46.720 know what that is and tectonics be any other way. 206 00:11:47.799 --> 00:11:51.720 So plate tectonics, we have plates on the surface. The 207 00:11:51.799 --> 00:11:56.840 plates are made on the lithosphere rock sphere. Litho rock 208 00:11:57.080 --> 00:11:59.759 rock sphere, the outer sphere of a planet. And what 209 00:11:59.799 --> 00:12:01.759 that happens we can all do this with our hands, 210 00:12:01.879 --> 00:12:06.879 is that lithosphere slides around and it can pull apart 211 00:12:07.159 --> 00:12:10.960 and make new lithosphere. That's what Earth does at the 212 00:12:11.080 --> 00:12:15.440 spreading centers, and then it can also subduct and recycle 213 00:12:15.480 --> 00:12:20.159 that lithosphere. So how a planet cools is its tectonics. 214 00:12:20.200 --> 00:12:23.840 We cool by sweating dogs put their bellies down on 215 00:12:23.879 --> 00:12:26.919 the ground or pant right, and the Earth does it 216 00:12:27.000 --> 00:12:31.440 by spreading and by subduction because this is a cold lithosphere. 217 00:12:31.480 --> 00:12:33.840 And when I put it back down into that hot 218 00:12:33.879 --> 00:12:36.200 mantles like taking your cold hand putting it on your 219 00:12:36.240 --> 00:12:38.919 belly and you go, oh, that's going to cool me down. 220 00:12:39.360 --> 00:12:42.679 So that's the way Earth cools. And then there's volcanism 221 00:12:42.919 --> 00:12:46.000 that is associated with that. Volcanism as we spread the 222 00:12:46.039 --> 00:12:51.320 plates apart, volcanism as we subduct one plate beneath the other. 223 00:12:51.919 --> 00:12:56.480 So those are the plates. How Venus doesn't have plates. 224 00:12:56.759 --> 00:12:57.600 So what's it doing? 225 00:12:58.039 --> 00:13:01.759 So what's it doing? That's exactly right? And why do 226 00:13:01.840 --> 00:13:05.919 we care? Well, Earth, it wasn't born with plate tectonics. 227 00:13:06.159 --> 00:13:09.039 You don't start having plate tectonics, So we want to 228 00:13:09.080 --> 00:13:12.679 know what did Earth do early on? Oh, well, Venus 229 00:13:13.120 --> 00:13:17.639 doesn't have and I will say never did have. Now 230 00:13:17.720 --> 00:13:20.159 some people say, oh, maybe it did in the past. Well, 231 00:13:20.759 --> 00:13:24.840 all of the earliest rocks that we have that there's 232 00:13:24.919 --> 00:13:27.759 a lot of debate on Venus, but most people agree 233 00:13:28.279 --> 00:13:32.360 the earliest rocks are a kind of rock called tesra. 234 00:13:32.240 --> 00:13:36.080 So a tesra is a weird geological formation. They look 235 00:13:36.159 --> 00:13:40.679 kind of like creepy wrinkles in fabric, or these ribbons 236 00:13:40.720 --> 00:13:45.200 of deep fissures and chasms. Sometimes they look like honeycombs 237 00:13:45.240 --> 00:13:48.679 of domes and pits. And according to the twenty twenty 238 00:13:48.840 --> 00:13:52.840 paper in the Journal Geology titled Venus Tessaie feature layered, 239 00:13:53.000 --> 00:13:57.120 folded and eroded rocks, Tessai cover about eight percent of 240 00:13:57.159 --> 00:14:00.519 the surface of Venus, and there's seen more run the 241 00:14:00.559 --> 00:14:04.000 equator and some of the northern latitudes. They're usually the 242 00:14:04.039 --> 00:14:06.200 oldest thing in their regions, are up to seven hundred 243 00:14:06.240 --> 00:14:09.159 and fifty million years old, and scientists think they're caused 244 00:14:09.200 --> 00:14:10.879 by volcanic activity. 245 00:14:11.000 --> 00:14:14.480 They're very distinctive and we can map those out, and 246 00:14:14.519 --> 00:14:17.480 when we map those out across the surface, they make 247 00:14:18.200 --> 00:14:23.240 huge coherent global patterns, and they're the earliest record we have. 248 00:14:23.919 --> 00:14:25.759 So if we can set that and say, okay, but 249 00:14:25.840 --> 00:14:29.320 plate tectonics maybe happened after that, because that's the earliest record, 250 00:14:30.360 --> 00:14:34.600 then when I subduct things, I'm removing parts of the surface, 251 00:14:34.639 --> 00:14:37.679 and so I'm going to lose parts of that overall 252 00:14:37.720 --> 00:14:41.960 coherent pattern. They're going to be dissected interrupted and we 253 00:14:42.039 --> 00:14:46.080 don't see that. So I would say that's evidence that 254 00:14:46.200 --> 00:14:49.120 Venus never had plate tectonics. So if you want to 255 00:14:49.279 --> 00:14:52.480 say she had it, because Earthlings we love it. We 256 00:14:52.600 --> 00:14:55.120 just want everyone to have plate tectonics. If you want 257 00:14:55.120 --> 00:14:59.240 to say Venus had plate tectonics, then you have to say, well, yes, 258 00:14:59.320 --> 00:15:01.240 she had it, but we just have no record of it, 259 00:15:01.720 --> 00:15:03.080 and that's just not good science. 260 00:15:03.559 --> 00:15:05.200 I also just want to note that there are so 261 00:15:05.360 --> 00:15:10.440 many different formations that aren't even tessory on Venus's lithosphere 262 00:15:10.559 --> 00:15:14.919 or the rockscape, her rockscape. But my favorite might be 263 00:15:15.279 --> 00:15:20.480 this huge volcanic caldera with these fans of ridges extending 264 00:15:20.519 --> 00:15:24.080 from it, and it's called the tick. It looks so 265 00:15:24.159 --> 00:15:26.559 much like a tick. But yeah, if Venus had a 266 00:15:26.600 --> 00:15:29.919 bunch of shifting plates on her surface, there would be 267 00:15:30.279 --> 00:15:34.159 remnants of all that movement, but there isn't anything credible. Well, 268 00:15:34.159 --> 00:15:36.200 what's on the surface. Let's say that I were to 269 00:15:36.440 --> 00:15:38.440 get through those clouds, what does it even look like? 270 00:15:38.600 --> 00:15:42.159 Yeah, so what it looks like is, first of all, 271 00:15:42.440 --> 00:15:46.960 it's hot, okay, but it is there is no water, 272 00:15:47.559 --> 00:15:54.399 there's no nasty biological layer at all, it's basically rock 273 00:15:54.960 --> 00:15:59.000 everywhere that you look. Depending on where you are, you 274 00:15:59.080 --> 00:16:04.639 could be huge flat open areas that if you were 275 00:16:04.720 --> 00:16:08.840 to go into Kilauea and down onto the lava lake 276 00:16:08.879 --> 00:16:12.159 there when it's not erupting, but expand that and look 277 00:16:12.200 --> 00:16:15.159 around and just see that forever, you might see something 278 00:16:15.279 --> 00:16:20.279 like that. But you might also land in huge mountain 279 00:16:20.360 --> 00:16:23.960 range areas that the highest region on the planet is 280 00:16:24.360 --> 00:16:28.159 higher than the highest region on Earth. Or you might 281 00:16:28.279 --> 00:16:33.519 land actually in these relatively deep chasms, in which case 282 00:16:33.559 --> 00:16:36.399 you would be sort of like in the Marianas Trench 283 00:16:36.480 --> 00:16:39.519 on Earth, except not quite so deep. Other places, if 284 00:16:39.519 --> 00:16:42.480 you're walking around on Tessra, which I would love to do, 285 00:16:42.879 --> 00:16:45.399 you're going to be in these just at a much 286 00:16:45.399 --> 00:16:50.120 smaller scale. But consider your fingers. With ridges and troughs 287 00:16:50.120 --> 00:16:52.559 and ridges and troughs and ridges and truughs that would 288 00:16:52.559 --> 00:16:55.080 be steep drops. You could walk along the ridge, but 289 00:16:55.120 --> 00:16:57.159 you would drop into a trough, and as far as 290 00:16:57.159 --> 00:17:02.840 you can see, that's what you would see, incredibly incredibly varied. 291 00:17:02.919 --> 00:17:07.880 Other places, you might be on extensive lava flows like 292 00:17:08.000 --> 00:17:13.000 Pahoihuai flows that are on Hawaii, but go for much, much, 293 00:17:13.079 --> 00:17:17.839 much further distances. So on the surface there's all these 294 00:17:17.920 --> 00:17:25.319 amazing features to see, but no biology, no water, and 295 00:17:25.359 --> 00:17:30.039 you would have impact craters, absolutely pristinely preserved impact craters 296 00:17:30.119 --> 00:17:31.839 relative to earther Mars. 297 00:17:32.440 --> 00:17:36.720 Well, so it has active volcanoes, I would say, yes, Okay, 298 00:17:36.799 --> 00:17:40.400 we are getting more and more evidence that there are 299 00:17:40.839 --> 00:17:42.839 huge volcanic features. 300 00:17:43.319 --> 00:17:45.559 I think most of us at this point would be 301 00:17:45.960 --> 00:17:50.160 really surprised if they weren't active, and there's enough tantalizing 302 00:17:50.279 --> 00:17:53.799 data to say, yeah, we probably have active volcanism. There 303 00:17:53.799 --> 00:17:57.759 are these regions that are called volcanic rises, and they 304 00:17:57.799 --> 00:18:03.160 are huge provinces. If we take one volcanic rise, it 305 00:18:03.240 --> 00:18:10.640 would cover all of Australia, No, all of Australia. It's 306 00:18:10.680 --> 00:18:14.079 probably formed in the similar way to Hawaii, of a 307 00:18:14.160 --> 00:18:19.519 massive plume underneath that lithosphere. But because on Earth, here 308 00:18:19.559 --> 00:18:23.880 comes the plume and the lithosphere moves across, So Hawaii 309 00:18:24.000 --> 00:18:28.599 makes these chains of volcanoes right m But on Venus 310 00:18:28.960 --> 00:18:31.000 the plates don't move. There aren't plates. It's like a 311 00:18:31.079 --> 00:18:34.839 one plate planet, and so the plume sits there and 312 00:18:34.880 --> 00:18:38.119 it bows up the surface, actually much much higher, just 313 00:18:38.160 --> 00:18:41.119 because when things are hotter, they expand, including the rock, 314 00:18:41.200 --> 00:18:43.759 so it bows it way up. But there you have 315 00:18:44.720 --> 00:18:49.440 massive flows that we see on the surface, rock flows 316 00:18:49.480 --> 00:18:51.680 that are all volcanic flows. You can look at those 317 00:18:51.720 --> 00:18:53.519 and go, oh my god. You know, it doesn't take 318 00:18:53.559 --> 00:18:57.680 a geologist to say, these are amazing volcanic flows that 319 00:18:57.799 --> 00:19:01.240 go for tens and tens and hundreds of miles. Now, 320 00:19:01.319 --> 00:19:05.000 are they active today? It'd be pretty hard to say 321 00:19:05.039 --> 00:19:08.920 they're not, because that heat source is still there. Now, 322 00:19:08.920 --> 00:19:13.559 did it happen yesterday? Well no, but geologically is it active? 323 00:19:14.680 --> 00:19:16.240 I bet my life on it. 324 00:19:16.720 --> 00:19:20.640 Well, okay, you told me that way back when you 325 00:19:20.640 --> 00:19:22.359 first started studying this, there were a few of you 326 00:19:22.440 --> 00:19:23.119 in a room. 327 00:19:23.440 --> 00:19:26.480 Right yeah, about there were sixty two one hundred people, 328 00:19:26.599 --> 00:19:29.680 that's pretty much who studied venus, and I was new. 329 00:19:29.880 --> 00:19:32.400 Like people went around and said, where did you come from? 330 00:19:34.480 --> 00:19:37.640 Because no one knew me from anything except my one 331 00:19:37.680 --> 00:19:41.359 colleague at Southern Methodist University at the time, in his students. 332 00:19:41.559 --> 00:19:43.920 And now when they say where did you come from? 333 00:19:43.960 --> 00:19:47.000 Did you tell them Caltech Capacadya. 334 00:19:47.400 --> 00:19:49.640 No. They would go through that and they would say, 335 00:19:49.640 --> 00:19:51.480 you weren't just so and so students, You weren't just 336 00:19:51.519 --> 00:19:53.160 so and so students, you weren't just so and so 337 00:19:53.279 --> 00:19:55.839 to it. I was a young professor, but I spent 338 00:19:55.920 --> 00:20:02.440 my entire career on Earth and just absolute serendipitously ended 339 00:20:02.519 --> 00:20:05.599 up on Venus. It was a holiday party. I'm talking 340 00:20:05.640 --> 00:20:09.599 to grad students and postdocs of my colleague Roger Phillips, 341 00:20:09.599 --> 00:20:12.000 and they're saying, this mission is going to Venus, and 342 00:20:12.039 --> 00:20:15.759 I I was just making polite conversation. I'm not interested 343 00:20:15.799 --> 00:20:18.000 in Venus. I can't find it in the sky. But 344 00:20:18.200 --> 00:20:21.319 so I say, tell me about it. So they did, 345 00:20:21.519 --> 00:20:24.480 and they said, well, Venus is a planet that we 346 00:20:24.599 --> 00:20:29.160 think has a strong weak, strong relogy of this layer. 347 00:20:29.200 --> 00:20:32.920 And I thought that's fascinating, because that's like continental crust, 348 00:20:32.960 --> 00:20:35.279 and to think a whole planet of that. I don't 349 00:20:35.279 --> 00:20:37.640 think that is the case now, but I said, that 350 00:20:37.680 --> 00:20:39.720 would be amazing to have a whole planet like that. 351 00:20:39.839 --> 00:20:42.240 And then they said, and we have places like mid 352 00:20:42.240 --> 00:20:45.599 ocean ridges on the Earth, and I said, those two 353 00:20:45.640 --> 00:20:49.839 can't be true. Those two views of Venus are in 354 00:20:49.960 --> 00:20:53.720 contradiction because if you pull apart layers that are strong 355 00:20:53.759 --> 00:20:58.559 week strong, which the Earth has done in the Southwest Desert, 356 00:20:59.000 --> 00:21:02.559 we get something called metamorphic core complex. We don't get 357 00:21:02.799 --> 00:21:06.240 a mid ocean spreading center. So they said really, and 358 00:21:06.279 --> 00:21:10.400 I said, yeah, it's just relogy. Relogy is the study 359 00:21:10.440 --> 00:21:13.000 of flow. You know, how do things bend, break and fold? 360 00:21:13.279 --> 00:21:16.519 They said, you have to talk to Roger. So I 361 00:21:16.640 --> 00:21:20.119 went and talked to Roger and that started my thing 362 00:21:20.200 --> 00:21:23.039 on Venus. And then as a grad student and I 363 00:21:23.079 --> 00:21:27.240 wrote a proposal to NASA and it was funded and 364 00:21:27.279 --> 00:21:32.160 we said, oh my goodness, okay, and it was just 365 00:21:32.160 --> 00:21:33.799 going to be a one time thing, but it's been 366 00:21:33.880 --> 00:21:37.319 so fascinating that I can't pull away. 367 00:21:37.400 --> 00:21:38.160 You stuck around. 368 00:21:38.559 --> 00:21:41.880 I stuck around. I stuck around. And then after that 369 00:21:42.039 --> 00:21:45.599 was when I learned that, oh my gosh, Venus is 370 00:21:45.880 --> 00:21:48.200 who's going to tell me about early Earth, which is 371 00:21:48.559 --> 00:21:52.759 what I am really interested in. And Venus has a 372 00:21:52.839 --> 00:21:57.319 record of early Venus. Earth doesn't because it's been destroyed 373 00:21:57.319 --> 00:22:01.319 by plate tectonics. Oh, go back to the baby books. 374 00:22:01.839 --> 00:22:06.720 Venus never develop plate tectonics, and we have this beautiful 375 00:22:07.480 --> 00:22:10.440 record through radar of her surface, like nothing like what 376 00:22:10.519 --> 00:22:12.960 we have of Earth. And so if I learned to 377 00:22:13.039 --> 00:22:17.000 read Venus's baby book, I can stand those in for Earth. 378 00:22:17.640 --> 00:22:20.880 I'm I'm the middle of five kids, but I had 379 00:22:20.880 --> 00:22:23.319 two older sisters. Well there are no baby pictures of 380 00:22:23.400 --> 00:22:26.000 me because there my sisters by the time it got 381 00:22:26.039 --> 00:22:27.880 to me, and they're like, okay, just use this one, 382 00:22:28.160 --> 00:22:32.559 you know, And that works. So Earth and Venus they're 383 00:22:32.599 --> 00:22:37.079 probably interchangeable or not interchangeable. But Venus has a lot 384 00:22:37.119 --> 00:22:40.359 to tell us, and she's preserved her baby book. Earth 385 00:22:40.440 --> 00:22:41.279 is ripped it apart. 386 00:22:41.680 --> 00:22:45.920 I love her. I love her. Oh so what was 387 00:22:46.000 --> 00:22:49.759 it about Earth that got you down that path? At 388 00:22:49.799 --> 00:22:52.599 what point were you like, I want to be a geologist. 389 00:22:52.640 --> 00:22:56.880 I want to be a planetary scientist. Yes, so pretty. 390 00:22:56.599 --> 00:23:02.759 Silly more more sarendifit. I was at Carlton College. I 391 00:23:02.839 --> 00:23:06.759 was a chemistry major and doing art on the side, 392 00:23:07.279 --> 00:23:11.960 and a friend and I geology and chemistry shared the 393 00:23:12.000 --> 00:23:14.440 same building, and we thought the geology students looked like 394 00:23:14.480 --> 00:23:17.599 they were having a lot more fun than we was chemist. 395 00:23:18.240 --> 00:23:22.160 So Sandra and I decided to take a geology class 396 00:23:22.200 --> 00:23:24.640 and it was full. So the professor said, well, you 397 00:23:24.640 --> 00:23:27.680 can only take it if you're thinking about majoring. So 398 00:23:27.799 --> 00:23:30.839 of course we lied. We had no intention of majoring, 399 00:23:30.839 --> 00:23:34.599 but we just said, oh, yes, yes, we're thinking about majoring. 400 00:23:34.599 --> 00:23:38.759 In it. Well, Lynn Tennyson, the professor, she got the 401 00:23:38.799 --> 00:23:43.200