Speaker 1: This episode maintained content of a graphic nature, including descriptions
Speaker 1: of physical and sexual violence against adults, children, and animals.
Speaker 1: Listener discretion is advised.
Speaker 2: Hi. I'm Shannon. Hi I'm Tanya, and we are Crimes
Speaker 2: and Consequences, a hardcore true crime podcast.
Speaker 3: Hey Shannon, Hey Tanya.
Speaker 2: How are you?
Speaker 3: I'm doing great? How are you doing?
Speaker 2: I am doing really good. It was a great day
Speaker 2: today outside, as you know, it was you rgious. I
Speaker 2: spoke with my neighbor Brenda, a mutual friend of ours,
Speaker 2: and we were talking about just how beautiful it was,
Speaker 2: and I thought, where is weather like this all the time? Breezy,
Speaker 2: no humidity, about seventy six degrees. I've heard some good
Speaker 2: things about San Diego. I've never been, but I have
Speaker 2: been contemplating spending some time in Spain. I'm hoping that
Speaker 2: Spain just sounds like it would have nice weather. What
Speaker 2: are your thoughts? And oh have you been?
Speaker 3: Oh?
Speaker 1: Spain sounds lovely, doesn't it.
Speaker 3: Yeah?
Speaker 1: I think I've seen photos of Barcelona and it's gorgeous.
Speaker 1: I've never been to Spain. I have been to San Diego,
Speaker 1: and San Diego is gorgeous.
Speaker 3: I went to San Diego Zoo.
Speaker 2: Yeah, Oh my gosh, I would love that.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 1: When I went to California to visit my friend Jody,
Speaker 1: we went to the San Diego Zoo one day because
Speaker 1: San Diego might have been about two hours from where
Speaker 1: she is. Oh why yeah, it was gorgeous. It's beautiful.
Speaker 3: And they do get hot weather in California.
Speaker 1: Because I remember I visited her in August once and
Speaker 1: we went to Disneyland and it was as fuck. Yeah,
Speaker 1: but in her home she was really close to the ocean,
Speaker 1: so her house like she didn't need air conditioning and
Speaker 1: it was August.
Speaker 3: Oh nice, I think, Oh yeah it was.
Speaker 2: It was gorgeous.
Speaker 3: But I'm doing great otherwise.
Speaker 1: And you and I have talked about you know, you
Speaker 1: said you wanted to expand your lex kan. This is correct, yes,
Speaker 1: And so you and I have talked about maybe introducing
Speaker 1: a word of the day.
Speaker 2: I am so on board with this.
Speaker 3: So I do get an email.
Speaker 1: I think I get two different ones, and there are
Speaker 1: words of the day and a lot of time these
Speaker 1: words are words I would never use. So Shannon and
Speaker 1: I talked about it before we started recording, and we
Speaker 1: went through a bunch of words and one was really fun.
Speaker 1: It what was it?
Speaker 3: Consanguineus? It was fun san guineas.
Speaker 1: That means people coming from a common ancestor.
Speaker 2: So sharing the same blood.
Speaker 1: Yes, yeah, I don't think I'm ever going to use
Speaker 1: the word consanguineus, even though I liked you, because it's
Speaker 1: it reminds me of that scene in Elf where he's
Speaker 1: like Francisco, that's you know, He's like, that's fun to say.
Speaker 2: That's one of my favorite I love him by Buddy, Buddy, Buddy,
Speaker 2: the Elf, Buddy the Elf. We did decide on a word,
Speaker 2: and it is oriate, oriate, oriate, oriate, and tell us
Speaker 2: what does oriate mean?
Speaker 1: Oriate means denoting made of or having the color gold,
Speaker 1: and it's spelled a U.
Speaker 2: R E A te oriate. So oh yeah, I had
Speaker 2: no idea. I was in my head. You know, it's weird.
Speaker 2: I have this thing, a condition. I don't even know
Speaker 2: what it's called medically, but I hear a word, I
Speaker 2: can spell it or see it in my head how
Speaker 2: it should be spelled. And when you said orio, I
Speaker 2: was like.
Speaker 3: Oh ori, you know, yeah?
Speaker 2: A you well the fancy ri okay a you ye do.
Speaker 2: I'm writing this down that was a good one our
Speaker 2: eight I'm going to use that post taste.
Speaker 1: Let's incorporated into our lexicon for.
Speaker 2: This week or I A you I love it? Okay,
Speaker 2: all right, all right, I got that down and I
Speaker 2: am bringing you a good story. Yeah.
Speaker 3: What do you got for us today?
Speaker 2: Well, let me open it up and we're going to
Speaker 2: go back here to nineteen forty five to meet mister
Speaker 2: Dennis Andrew Nilssen November twenty third, nineteen forty five to
Speaker 2: be exact, that's when the day of his birth is
Speaker 2: and that makes him a Sagittarius magetary fire sign into
Speaker 2: a Scottish mother, Elizabeth and his Norwegian father Ola. Dennis
Speaker 2: was born in Fraserburg, Scotland, as the second of three
Speaker 2: children that his parents would have together. The marriage between
Speaker 2: Elizabeth and Olav was the furthest thing from happy due
Speaker 2: to his alcoholism, so Elizabeth left him, took her kids,
Speaker 2: and moved in with her father. Luckily, Dennis absolutely adored
Speaker 2: his maternal grandfather, so when they moved in, Dennis was
Speaker 2: over the moon. When his grandfather sadly passed away when
Speaker 2: Dennis was only six, This completely shot him down, shattered
Speaker 2: him and seeing his father's corpse at the funeral home
Speaker 2: really shook him, and later Dennis would say that it
Speaker 2: shook him so much he believes that psychologically changed him,
Speaker 2: like at that moment, if he had to pick a
Speaker 2: moment in time now. Elizabeth and Olav they eventually got divorced,
Speaker 2: but she remarried and she went on to have four
Speaker 2: more children with her new husband, and Elizabeth basically seemed
Speaker 2: to give all of her love and affection to number
Speaker 2: two of children. So yeah, this left Dennis completely depressed, alone,
Speaker 2: and completely withdrawn from his mother and siblings. From a
Speaker 2: young age, Dennis knew that he was attracted to other boys,
Speaker 2: although he was not out as gay. Sometimes the kids
Speaker 2: at school would make fun of him and accuse him
Speaker 2: of being gay, which, honestly, Tanya, it's unfortunately, or just
Speaker 2: almost like a rite of passage. How do you escape
Speaker 2: right your junior high and high school years without someone
Speaker 2: calling you gay? Yeah, or whichever way they use you
Speaker 2: know what I'm saying, right, See, it's almost like you
Speaker 2: no one comes out on skates. I'm not making it right,
Speaker 2: I'm just saying, gosh, I you know, in the eighties,
Speaker 2: my goodness, that was quite a gravy word covered lots
Speaker 2: of things totally, but when it came to school dances,
Speaker 2: Dennis always leaned on his sister to be his date.
Speaker 2: His homosexuality he didn't seem to get him in trouble
Speaker 2: when he was young, But this is kind of uncommon
Speaker 2: given the many stories we have covered like this in
Speaker 2: the past. Yeah, Dennis was a good boy. There was
Speaker 2: no sexual assault committed against anyone when he was younger,
Speaker 2: and he kept his sexual orientation to himself. He was
Speaker 2: always aware of his homosexuality, but at the time this
Speaker 2: was heavily frowned upon. I mean nineteen forty five when
Speaker 2: he was born, so he's like fifteen, so that'd be
Speaker 2: a yeah, I mean still come on. So Dennis was
Speaker 2: never truly comfortable in his own skin. He learned how
Speaker 2: to cope in the worst way imaginable, and he took
Speaker 2: his discomfort and sexual frustration out on his victims. At
Speaker 2: the age of sixteen, in nineteen sixty one, Dennis enlisted
Speaker 2: in the Army, and while in the Army, he became
Speaker 2: a cook and served in the Army Catering Corps as
Speaker 2: their butcher for eleven years, splitting his time between Norway, Yemen,
Speaker 2: and Germany. His initial training was spent stationed in Germany,
Speaker 2: but he worked as the butcher in Yemen and Norway,
Speaker 2: and these butchering skills would later come in handy when
Speaker 2: we get into all of the blood that will be
Speaker 2: on his hands usually. You know, the army or other
Speaker 2: branch of military is a place where many people find
Speaker 2: and have found the structure and discipline that their lives
Speaker 2: truly needed.
Speaker 1: Did it happen for you when you were in the military, Well,
Speaker 1: I'll tell you what.
Speaker 2: That structure definitely. You know my parents they did give
Speaker 2: me structure and then the military just really drove it
Speaker 2: home whatever, which is good because I am definitely someone
Speaker 2: who thrives in a structured environment. Cass I Ugh, it's
Speaker 2: like no, thank you. You know, someone should be in
Speaker 2: charge here. Dennis overall didn't do poorly while in the army,
Speaker 2: and he did well with the training and learning the
Speaker 2: different skills to become the soul. He loved being around people,
Speaker 2: and he did well with the organization, rules and friendships
Speaker 2: that the army had to offer. He basically had an
Speaker 2: unlimited amount of drinking buddies, and he loved this just
Speaker 2: as much as he loved to drink. His love for
Speaker 2: alcohol became more intense, and the more he went out
Speaker 2: with friends, the heavier he drank. In nineteen sixty seven,
Speaker 2: Dennis was sent to Yemen, and this is where he
Speaker 2: actually had to use the skills he learned as a soldier.
Speaker 2: The conditions while stationed in Yemen were really dangerous, and
Speaker 2: he soon began to lose friends, but it wasn't for
Speaker 2: any personal reasons. He was losing his friends on the
Speaker 2: battlefield and on many occasions he saw his friends get
Speaker 2: shot dead by enemy gunfire. He obviously wasn't one of
Speaker 2: the soldiers who was killed, but he was kidnapped while
Speaker 2: in Yemen by a taxi cab driver. The driver beat
Speaker 2: Dennis until he was unconscious, and when Dennis awoke, he
Speaker 2: was in the trunk of that same cab. After the
Speaker 2: driver got Dennis right where he wanted him, he dragged
Speaker 2: him out of the trunk. Dennis was a kinky guy,
Speaker 2: and he liked to have his victims unconscious, but this
Speaker 2: was not his style at all because he wasn't in
Speaker 2: control of the situation. Thankfully, the Army had trained him
Speaker 2: in various ways to get out of a situation such
Speaker 2: as this and he was able to use the carjack
Speaker 2: as a weapon. He whacked the driver out as soon
Speaker 2: as he got his chance, and after Dennis knocked the
Speaker 2: driver out, he put the driver right where he had
Speaker 2: been locked in the trunk. Dennis was able to get
Speaker 2: out of this basically on scathe, but this was really
Speaker 2: the first time he had used violence against another human being,
Speaker 2: whether it was in self defense or not. Believe it
Speaker 2: or not, Dennis fantasized a lot about this incident, and
Speaker 2: he would often masturbate while thinking about the whole fiasco.
Speaker 2: WHOA yes, so now you know yeah? And Dennis he
Speaker 2: loved the violent details that took place, even though he
Speaker 2: could have been killed, and the part that turned him
Speaker 2: on the most was, of course the violence. While in Yemen,
Speaker 2: Dennis became very familiar with the painting called The Raft
Speaker 2: of Medusa, and he would often incorporate the images of
Speaker 2: this painting into his sexual fantasies and his masturbation. This
Speaker 2: painting embodies the aftermath of a shipwreck. Most men in
Speaker 2: the painting are shirtless and starving while reaching their arms
Speaker 2: out in a hopeless call for help, knowing that they
Speaker 2: will most likely die. One detail in the painting that
Speaker 2: Dennis really loved. Shows the naked body of a deceased
Speaker 2: man and his body is covering another man's lap. To Dennis,
Speaker 2: this shows how a man could truly submit when times
Speaker 2: became desperate. In the painting, it was very hard to
Speaker 2: tell which men were dead and which ones were alive,
Speaker 2: but this still told Dennis that the living dominated over
Speaker 2: the dead, and that fact was good enough for him.
Speaker 2: So we're gonna that's kind of setting the stage of
Speaker 2: Theandards doesn't necessarily need a heart beats. But due to
Speaker 2: his homosexuality, Dennis was a little nervous showering around other men.
Speaker 2: He always took showers with nobody else around due to
Speaker 2: his overwhelming fear of getting an erection after seeing another
Speaker 2: naked man. Regardless of his sexuality, Dennis still made friends
Speaker 2: and he seemed to have formed relationships, but it wasn't
Speaker 2: all sunshine and rainbows. Shit got a little weird when
Speaker 2: he was on base in Germany. One night, Dennis overindulged
Speaker 2: and got a little drunk with a younger German man,
Speaker 2: and the two got so carried away to the point
Speaker 2: the two men passed out on the floor together. Dennis
Speaker 2: woke up not knowing where he was, but he did
Speaker 2: remember the friend that he had made earlier the night before.
Speaker 2: Even still, this man was a stranger to Dennis. Nothing
Speaker 2: ever happened sexually between the two, But when Dennis woke
Speaker 2: up and saw the German man lying next to him,
Speaker 2: Dennis got this unsettling impulse. After this urged, he covered
Speaker 2: his entire body in telcum powder to look at himself
Speaker 2: in the mirror. He imagined he was fucking dead, so that's.
Speaker 3: What he wanted to look creepy dude. Oh my goodness,
Speaker 3: this guy's a fucking weirdo.
Speaker 2: Uh no, kill my goodness. Dennis left the army in
Speaker 2: nineteen seventy two and moved to London, England, and upon
Speaker 2: his resignation, he trained with the police as a junior constable.
Speaker 2: Of course, at this time, Dennis didn't see himself as
Speaker 2: any sort of criminal, even though he felt a constant
Speaker 2: internal struggle to stay a good person. While training with
Speaker 2: the police, he learned what he was truly obsessed with,
Speaker 2: and since the police worked closely with the morgue and
Speaker 2: autopsy technicians, Dennis became morbidly fascinated with dead bodies, both
Speaker 2: before and after the autopsies were completed. Despite his new
Speaker 2: obsession and the excess that working with the police offered,
Speaker 2: Dennis left the police force to work as a recruiter.
Speaker 2: Soon after working at the recruitment center, he was made
Speaker 2: a supervisor. He was really good at his job and
Speaker 2: he worked really hard. While nobody at his place of
Speaker 2: employment knew about his sexuality, Dennis secretly visited gay bars
Speaker 2: and would have secret sexual rendezvous with other gay men.
Speaker 2: The life of a police officer would have been tough
Speaker 2: to live as a gay man around this time, but
Speaker 2: he did love the danger that came with living a
Speaker 2: double life. Although Dennis was meeting men on the regular,
Speaker 2: his sexual desires had yet to be satisfied. He needed
Speaker 2: much more. Hmm. I don't know how you become attracted
Speaker 2: to something that's dead. I don't get it. But maybe
Speaker 2: he can shed some light. His crimes can maybe open something.
Speaker 2: One year after Dennis left the army, he had his
Speaker 2: first run in with the police, and let me tell you,
Speaker 2: it was some very petty stuff. This was weird. In
Speaker 2: nineteen seventy three, while working as a recruitment interviewer, he
Speaker 2: met a man named David Painter. David went to the police,
Speaker 2: claiming that Dennis took some pictures of him. These weren't
Speaker 2: just ordinary headshots. These were pictures that Dennis took of
Speaker 2: David while he was asleep. Apparently, David found out about
Speaker 2: the photos and confronted Dennis about them, and the confrontation
Speaker 2: resulted in Dennis getting so worked up that he needed
Speaker 2: to be hospitalized. The police listened to David and they
Speaker 2: brought Dennison to be interviewed about the accusations, but unfortunately
Speaker 2: Dennis was released without being charged at all. Huh, that's
Speaker 2: some creepy stuff. Yeah, now is that at a chargeable offense?
Speaker 2: You know, if you sleep with someone and then there
Speaker 2: were pictures. Unless I'm missing something about the pictures. Was
Speaker 2: he covered in talcum powder?
Speaker 3: Yeah?
Speaker 2: I'm scared. This is fun settling if I'm just sleeping,
Speaker 2: or then it's creepy and still unsettling.
Speaker 3: But yeah, right.
Speaker 2: So two years later, Dennis meant someone named David Gillichin,
Speaker 2: and David seemed to be pretty important to him romantically.
Speaker 2: The two of them moved into an apartment together located
Speaker 2: at one ninety five Melrose Avenue in North London. Whenever
Speaker 2: asked about their relationship years later. David never admitted to
Speaker 2: being in a homosexual relationship with Dennis, but when their
Speaker 2: relationship ended, Dennis went off the deep end. He became
Speaker 2: severely depressed and he turned to alcohol to cope with
Speaker 2: how lonely he was, and this led to his first murder,
Speaker 2: which would occur a year and a half later. The
Speaker 2: same apartment is where Dennis would commit many of his murders,
Speaker 2: but he would later relocate and commit even more. Dennis
Speaker 2: found himself in the London neighborhood of Cricklewood in nineteen
Speaker 2: seventy eight. That's quaint Cricklewood and more specific, at the
Speaker 2: Cricklewood Arms Pub, Dennis had already had a few pints
Speaker 2: of his favorite beer. As he sat at the bar
Speaker 2: with his dark hair and dark brown eyes looking around
Speaker 2: the bar, someone piqued his interests someone that he could
Speaker 2: lure away. The boy's name was Stephen Dean Holmes, and
Speaker 2: Dennis knew that he could take advantage of Stephen because
Speaker 2: he was young, naive, and way too young to be
Speaker 2: in the bar let alone drinking. And when Dennis saw Stephen,
Speaker 2: he walked over to him and sat next to him,
Speaker 2: and the two began talking, and Dennis eventually invited him
Speaker 2: back to his apartment. It's not known what really transpired
Speaker 2: between Dennis and Stephen, other than the two drinking massive
Speaker 2: amounts of alcohol that night, and Dennis woke up with
Speaker 2: an attractive boy in bed next to him. Stephen was
Speaker 2: fourteen years old, but Dennis didn't give a shit about
Speaker 2: his age. He was just he's sick, yeah, and he's
Speaker 2: just so happy that someone finally agreed to go home
Speaker 2: with him that night. You know he was a predator, Yeah,
Speaker 2: he is. Dennis deep down knew that all of this
Speaker 2: was way too good to be true. Stephen was so
Speaker 2: drunk the night before, and Dennis knew that as soon
Speaker 2: as Stephen woke up and realized what was going on,
Speaker 2: he would jump up, get dressed, and leave and this
Speaker 2: would have all been for nothing, a one night stand.
Speaker 2: Dennis didn't give Stephen the chance to leave. He didn't
Speaker 2: even give him the chance to wake up. As soon
Speaker 2: as Dennis came out of the realization of what was
Speaker 2: going to happen if Stephen woke up, he strangled the
Speaker 2: fourteen year old boy with the necktie. Dennis thought that
Speaker 2: this was the only way he could truly take control
Speaker 2: over the situation. After he was dead, Dennis washed his
Speaker 2: body and took him back to bed with him. Although
Speaker 2: Dennis tried to have sex with Stephen's dead body, he
Speaker 2: couldn't complete the task and he fell asleep next to
Speaker 2: the body. He couldn't complete it because it's not not
Speaker 2: fucking natural.
Speaker 3: Yes, so probably not.
Speaker 2: I have to fight all the stop signs come out
Speaker 2: like his fucking fantasy.
Speaker 3: I don't I know.
Speaker 1: I mean, good Lord, I can only imagine what's gonna happen,
Speaker 1: so oh please do go on.
Speaker 2: Absolutely, Dennis wanted Stephen to stay with him, and he
Speaker 2: made sure that that happened. When Dennis strangled him, he
Speaker 2: only knocked him unconscious to kill him, he did something horrific.
Speaker 2: He slowly poured a bucket of water over his face
Speaker 2: to drown Stephen. Before this night, Dennis did some really
Speaker 2: mess up stuff. But now he was a cold blood
Speaker 2: and murderer, and he just took the life of a
Speaker 2: young teenaged boy who had his whole life ahead of him.
Speaker 2: And as we discussed in other cases, the killers will
Speaker 2: begin to think of where to dispose of the body.
Speaker 2: They need to have a moment to think of when
Speaker 2: to dispose the body, and they need time to think
Speaker 2: of where the body will be dash. This was not
Speaker 2: the case for Dennis. Dennis just had killed Stephen because
Speaker 2: he was scared that the boy would run out of
Speaker 2: the apartment as soon as he awoke. Why would he
Speaker 2: waste his time disposing of a perfectly fresh corpse, dead
Speaker 2: or alive. Dennis wanted Stephen to stay in his apartment
Speaker 2: with him forever, but where was he going to put
Speaker 2: his body? Well, he began to rip up the floorboards
Speaker 2: inside of his apartment and this would become Stephen's resting place.
Speaker 2: In fact, this would be the resting place for the
Speaker 2: rest of his victims over the next five years. Good
Speaker 2: five years later, Dennis wrote from prison about his first murder.
Speaker 2: He said that he had quote started down the avenue
Speaker 2: of death in possession of a new kind of flatmate unquote.
Speaker 2: Stephen's body would remain under the floorboards until Dennis relocated
Speaker 2: his body, along with the others, to the backyard. Dennis
Speaker 2: truly had an obsession with the dead bodies of his victims,
Speaker 2: made himself believe that a dead body was much more
Speaker 2: valuable than one with a heartbeat. He didn't want someone
Speaker 2: that was gonna leave him, and he certainly didn't want
Speaker 2: one that could make their own decisions.
Speaker 3: You know what this sounds like to me? It sounds
Speaker 3: like Jeffrey Dahmer.
Speaker 2: I was just thinking that too, Like this does sound
Speaker 2: like Dahmer.
Speaker 1: Yeah, like Jeffrey Dahmer didn't want people to leave him. Yeah,
Speaker 1: also didn't want them to they have a mind where
Speaker 1: they have a mind, and so yeah, this is very
Speaker 1: very Dahmer like it is.
Speaker 2: Dennis didn't get a chance to kill everyone that he
Speaker 2: came into contact with, and one man who survived was
Speaker 2: a Chinese student named Andrew Hoe. Dennis asked him to
Speaker 2: come back to one ninety five Melrose with him, and
Speaker 2: Andrew agreed. Andrew was a bit kinky and wanted to
Speaker 2: attempt some bondage role playing, but of course, Dennis took
Speaker 2: it too far and tied his necktie a little too
Speaker 2: tightly while telling Andrew that he wanted to play a
Speaker 2: more dangerous game. Now, this freaked Andrew out and he
Speaker 2: got the fuck out of there and he went to
Speaker 2: the police about this, but they didn't do anything about it.
Speaker 3: Oh, just like Jeffrey Dahmer's victims.
Speaker 2: Oh my gosh right after and it's like a precursor
Speaker 2: of yeah in Wisconsin. This is London. After Dennis's first murder,
Speaker 2: he realized what it felt like to unleash his impulse
Speaker 2: that he had pushed down for years. And years later,
Speaker 2: he wrote, quote, under the triggering influence of spirits meaning alcohol,
Speaker 2: usually dormant mental forces have been released which have made
Speaker 2: mind the actions of a destructive psychopath. End quote. This
Speaker 2: would be true. Yeah, blame it on the alcohol.
Speaker 3: Yeah, blame it on the alcohol.
Speaker 2: Sure, this would be true for many of his future
Speaker 2: murders as well. His next murder would take place in
Speaker 2: December of nineteen seventy nine, and this was a year
Speaker 2: after he had killed Stephen. Dennis met another young man
Speaker 2: named Kenneth Aginden. Kenneth was a really good looking young
Speaker 2: dude who had the face and body that you would
Speaker 2: normally see on TV or in a concert, you know,
Speaker 2: just nice. Kenneth had it going on. Kenneth was Canadian born,
Speaker 2: but he found himself in London on this fateful night.
Speaker 2: He took a risk, leaving his homeland to visit England, and,
Speaker 2: as most do when it comes to an adventure, he
Speaker 2: threw caution into the wind. He had waited so long
Speaker 2: to see the sights, and he was living his best
Speaker 2: life until Dennis's creepy ass came up to him. Dennis
Speaker 2: saw Kenneth in the local pub and when Dennis approached him,
Speaker 2: he told him about how much he wanted to continue
Speaker 2: to see London, and Dennis obliged. The two of them
Speaker 2: had a few beers and they walked for a while
Speaker 2: looking at the beautiful city of London. Dennis got Kenneth
Speaker 2: alone as they were walking, and he was just happy
Speaker 2: at the fact that Kenneth wasn't absolutely appalled by him.
Speaker 2: After the two hit a few historic hotspots, Dennis invited
Speaker 2: Kenneth back up to his apartment. Kenneth agreed to go
Speaker 2: back up to the apartment, and on the way back,
Speaker 2: Dennis loaded up on his favorite whiskey beer and rum.
Speaker 2: This is what triggered his violence, and he obviously knew
Speaker 2: that about himself. Yes, he liked the violence and you
Speaker 2: know that alcohol. I mean, you've already you know how
Speaker 2: to get the party started. Rev your own engine. Apparently
Speaker 2: Dennis went a different route when it came to killing Kenneth.
Speaker 2: He didn't knock him unconscious before strangling him. The two
Speaker 2: were just sitting there listening to a record, and Dennis
Speaker 2: came up behind Kenneth with a wire that was attached
Speaker 2: to his headphones. Now that Kenneth was dead, he began
Speaker 2: to use Kenneth's body to satisfy his psychological needs. He
Speaker 2: began to treat Kenneth's corp as a living and breathing person,
Speaker 2: no problem touching and fondling his cold body, and he
Speaker 2: would interact with the body excessively. Dennis then began to
Speaker 2: realize that this is what he had needed his whole life,
Speaker 2: and he began to pose Kenneth's body in various ways
Speaker 2: so that he could take pictures of it. When he
Speaker 2: was finished taking his weird, fucking pictures, he put Kenneth's
Speaker 2: body back into bed with him, and the two of them,
Speaker 2: one dead, one alive, would watch television together for a
Speaker 2: few hours before Dennis fell asleep. I can't even get
Speaker 2: my head around, and I'm sensitive to smells. I could
Speaker 2: never thank you Jesus. I don't know what makes people
Speaker 2: like this tick, but oh and I gotta keep calm
Speaker 2: about it or I'm gonna get super violent myself. See
Speaker 2: I don't need alcohol to make me violent. I have
Speaker 2: to hear about bullshit and then I'll get violent. So
Speaker 2: keeping it light, I know, I'm just like, what the fuck?
Speaker 3: Actual fuck? What is the matter with people?
Speaker 2: I don't I know we always get that, but I have.
Speaker 3: Like no words. I don't.
Speaker 1: You know, We're an episode like two hundred and seventy
Speaker 1: something and I just can't fucking believe that.
Speaker 2: I'm still shocked. My mouth is a dog. I'm flabbergasted.
Speaker 2: I just yes, stunned. It is.
Speaker 1: You know, my fucking I loved my grandpa too, you
Speaker 1: know what I mean, and he died when I was young,
Speaker 1: So you know, what the fuck?
Speaker 2: How dare you use your grandfather? I know it own
Speaker 2: your shit?
Speaker 3: You know, we all lose people. God, I just really
Speaker 3: that's you're gonna say.
Speaker 2: See, That's why I mean, it's just bullshit. It's just
Speaker 2: that's just another fucking hundred layers of the onion to
Speaker 2: peel away.
Speaker 1: Right.
Speaker 2: So, as we mentioned earlier, Dennis loved and clearly had
Speaker 2: an obsession with dead so it was obvious why he
Speaker 2: killed his victims. He wanted a partner who wouldn't resist,
Speaker 2: wouldn't reject him sexually. These victims weren't given the choice
Speaker 2: to reject or accept him because he was so terrified
Speaker 2: off being rejected by someone he was attracted to, and
Speaker 2: after each victim was murdered, he kept the bodies to
Speaker 2: appease his appetite for the ultimate submission. He killed each
Speaker 2: victim for their body, and he killed them to have control.
Speaker 2: After having Kenneth's body in his bed with him for
Speaker 2: over twenty four hours, he wrapped Kenneth in a plastic
Speaker 2: wrap and placed his body under the floorboards next to Stephen.
Speaker 2: Dennis was doing this out of his obsession for the
Speaker 2: feeling all of this gave him. He had never felt
Speaker 2: any sensation like this before, and he wasn't going to
Speaker 2: stop on his own. On many occasions, he would wrap
Speaker 2: his victims' bodies just so that he could take them
Speaker 2: back out from under the floor to play with them
Speaker 2: sometimes right These dead bodies were like dolls to him,
Speaker 2: and when he was done with them, he said goodbye
Speaker 2: to them until the next time. He would then go
Speaker 2: about his life like he didn't have any bodies lying
Speaker 2: under the floor of his apartment. Kenneth was one of
Speaker 2: the only victims who was reported missing you know what
Speaker 2: this reminds me of two actually is the American horror
Speaker 2: story Coven, the house servant that you remember. He kept
Speaker 2: dolls and he was really create. Oh, I'm gonna have
Speaker 2: to watch his series again.
Speaker 3: I know it was good.
Speaker 2: Covin was good, very good. When spring came the following year,
Speaker 2: Dennis knew that he needed a new attractive boy to
Speaker 2: play with, and we now know that he liked picking
Speaker 2: up his victims at various pubs. With Stephen, he knew
Speaker 2: that he could befriend him by buying him drinks that
Speaker 2: he couldn't legally get on his own. And with Kenneth,
Speaker 2: Dennis was able to show him around on London. With
Speaker 2: the next victim, he just needed a way to befriend him,
Speaker 2: just like he had the first two. His next victim
Speaker 2: was another young boy, sixteen year old Martin Duffy, and
Speaker 2: Martin was homeless and he was on the run from
Speaker 2: the law in his hometown of Birkenhead. He had gotten
Speaker 2: into some trouble that evolved around him setting a fire
Speaker 2: and he had hitchhike all the way to London to
Speaker 2: get away from everything. He just wanted a fresh start
Speaker 2: and at this point he was over two hundred miles
Speaker 2: away from home before he met Dennis. He had been
Speaker 2: sleeping at the bus station and he was hungry with
Speaker 2: nowhere to go. Dennis thought that he had hit the
Speaker 2: jackpot with this one. Dennis knew exactly what he needed
Speaker 2: to do to get Martin, and he prayed on the
Speaker 2: fact that Martin was in a really tough spot, so
Speaker 2: Dennis offered him a place to sleep along with the
Speaker 2: hot meal, and of course, Martin accepted the invitation. Dennis
Speaker 2: got the young teenager into bed without coming on to him,
Speaker 2: and while Martin was asleep, Dennis took a piece of
Speaker 2: rope to stop him from breathing, and after he had
Speaker 2: knocked him out, Dennis to go walk into the kitchen
Speaker 2: to grab some water. He did the same thing that
Speaker 2: he had done to Stephen by pouring the water slowly
Speaker 2: over his face to drown him while holding his head back.
Speaker 2: He then washed his body and took him to bed
Speaker 2: with him. Dennis wrapped Martin's lifeless body in plastic before
Speaker 2: placing it into the cupboard for at least two weeks.
Speaker 2: He later placed it under the floorboards, just as he
Speaker 2: had done with Stephen, and Kenneth. But how was he
Speaker 2: hiding the smell?
Speaker 3: Yeah, I wondered about that.
Speaker 2: How good is these bags?
Speaker 3: Are these zip locks? I died?
Speaker 2: Yes? Body right. It had been well over a year
Speaker 2: since he had killed his first victim and at least
Speaker 2: a couple months since he had murdered his second. He
Speaker 2: began to buy deodorizers and bug spray to hide the
Speaker 2: smile of decomposition. Dennis later said, the greater the beauty
Speaker 2: of the man, and the greater was the sense of
Speaker 2: loss and grief. Their dead naked bodies fascinated me. But
Speaker 2: I would have done anything to have them back alive.
Speaker 2: Really doesn't even make sense, I know. And you can't
Speaker 2: hide decomposition. You can bug spray and deodorizers always come on,
Speaker 2: stop it, I know, But you can convince yourself that
Speaker 2: anything's working right Right Before he moved to his home
Speaker 2: located at twenty three Cranley Gardens. That's his last apartment
Speaker 2: before he was caught, Dennis kept the bodies under the floorboards,
Speaker 2: but when the smell became too unbearable, he began to
Speaker 2: take apart the bodies, thinking that the smell was coming
Speaker 2: from his victim's internal organs. When it was time to
Speaker 2: dissect the bodies. He took the bodies out of their
Speaker 2: hiding spots, remove the organs, skin, and bones. He would
Speaker 2: sometimes save the skin and some of the bones to
Speaker 2: use later, maybe when he was feeling lonely. I mean, why,
Speaker 2: I'm not kidding, I wish I was. Not only did
Speaker 2: he have his personal playtime with his friends, but he
Speaker 2: would also dress the bodies up and he would have
Speaker 2: sex with them. In defense of his own fucked up behavior,
Speaker 2: he said, quote, a corpse is a thing. It can't feel,
Speaker 2: it can't suffer. If you're more upset by what I
Speaker 2: did to a corpse than what I did to a
Speaker 2: living person, then your morals are upside down. Well, I
Speaker 2: think we're just starting with the shock of necrophilia. Okay, yeah,
Speaker 2: so don't judge me on how I'm judging you, all right, Yeah.
Speaker 3: I'm pretty appalled to you, somebody. Let's just start with that. So, yes,
Speaker 3: I am.
Speaker 1: I am offriended by what you did do a living
Speaker 1: person and then you just continued to degrade.
Speaker 2: Them, Yes, yeah, and taking life.
Speaker 3: Yeah, did what I have to say?
Speaker 2: Yeah, and compare to necrophilia if it was the only
Speaker 2: thing on the table but you just slapped me in
Speaker 2: the back of the head with this six shit You're
Speaker 2: doing right? How dare you? I'm a fendist By this statement,
Speaker 2: Martin he had run away from home a few times
Speaker 2: prior to this, but this time he never returned home.
Speaker 2: He usually went to the same people each time he
Speaker 2: ran away, and his family would just patiently wait for
Speaker 2: him to come back home when they hadn't heard from
Speaker 2: him or the usual people that he would stay with.
Speaker 2: His family obviously became extremely worried about him until his
Speaker 2: body was later discovered. His family and especially his father,
Speaker 2: never gave up on trying to find him. Martin's father
Speaker 2: had a picture of his son on his bedside table,
Speaker 2: and each night before he went to bed, he would
Speaker 2: look at that picture and ask, where are you son.
Speaker 2: In August of nineteen eighty, Dennis met a twenty seven
Speaker 2: year old sex worker named William Billy Sutherland. What was
Speaker 2: the name of the sex worker and bridesmaids at the
Speaker 2: for the AA meeting who had to give blow jobs
Speaker 2: that sex work? This one's name is Billy Billy Sutherland
Speaker 2: and Dennis knew that Billy slept with men for Bunny,
Speaker 2: and he later said that he really didn't want to
Speaker 2: take him home to his apartment on Melrose Avenue, but
Speaker 2: one night he and Billy went bar hopping, and when
Speaker 2: Dennis woke up the next morning, Billy was dead in
Speaker 2: bed lying next to him. Dennis later said that he
Speaker 2: quote barely remembered unquote strangling him, but he did. That
Speaker 2: same month, on August eleventh, Dennis encountered another man named
Speaker 2: Douglas Stewart, and Douglas actually survived this attack. Dennis apparently
Speaker 2: attacked Douglas after he had fallen asleep inside of Dennis's apartment.
Speaker 2: When he woke up, his arms and legs were tied
Speaker 2: together and Dennis was in the process of putting the
Speaker 2: notorious necktie around his neck in an attempt to strangle him.
Speaker 2: Douglas wasn't going down without a fight, and he ended
Speaker 2: up knocking Dennis over, and Dennis tried to play it cool,
Speaker 2: and he told him to get the hell out, and
Speaker 2: Douglas called the police around four am that same morning,
Speaker 2: but the police noticed that he had been drinking and
Speaker 2: he was slurring his words as he was trying to
Speaker 2: tell them what had just happened. The police did come
Speaker 2: to the apartment knocked on the door. After the police
Speaker 2: told Dennis what Douglas had told them. You know, Dennis
Speaker 2: played stupid and shocked, so the police deemed it as
Speaker 2: a homosexual encounter gone wrong, and the officers weren't sure
Speaker 2: who to believe. Regardless, they wrote up a short report,
Speaker 2: but Douglas never showed up for the required follow up.
Speaker 2: So it is thought that Dennis killed about seven more
Speaker 2: young boys and young men between November nineteen eighty and
Speaker 2: May of nineteen eighty one, but they have not been
Speaker 2: identified to this day. In September of nineteen eighty one,
Speaker 2: Dennis killed a twenty four year old man named Malcolm Barlow.
Speaker 2: Malcolm was an orphan who had extreme mental issues and
Speaker 2: he was also known to be a pathological liar. One day,
Speaker 2: Malcolm was hanging outside of Dennis's apartment and Malcolm was
Speaker 2: complaining that he felt weak and had epilepsy. Dennis took
Speaker 2: him inside of his apartment. He called for an ambulance.
Speaker 2: Malcolm went to the hospital, but he went back to
Speaker 2: Dennis's apartment when he was released. He waited on the
Speaker 2: stoop of his Melrose Avenue apartment until Dennis came back
Speaker 2: from work. Dennis invited him in and the two had
Speaker 2: a couple of drinks together. Later, Malcolm passed out and
Speaker 2: fell into an almost coma like state as he slept.
Speaker 2: Dennis strangled him after he fell asleep because he thought
Speaker 2: Malcolm was annoying. Don't judge. Yeah, I've about had it
Speaker 2: since the last judge. Shit that you just said, Dennis,
Speaker 2: Let's keep the trap shut on your thoughts, right, And
Speaker 2: the following day, Dennis stuffed his body into one of
Speaker 2: his cabinets located under the sink in the kitchen. At
Speaker 2: this point, he had already had half a dozen bodies
Speaker 2: in his apartment and he was waiting to dispose of
Speaker 2: all of the victim's bodies. He didn't mind the weight though,
Speaker 2: like we mentioned earlier, he would keep some of the
Speaker 2: bodies in bed with him for as long as a week.
Speaker 3: That's fucking insane.
Speaker 2: It's stink, the liquids, the shit I can't even like, right,
Speaker 2: I mean, but this is completely thrilling to him.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 2: In nineteen eighty two, Dennis relocated to twenty three Cranley Gardens,
Speaker 2: located in London, and his landlord had no fucking clue
Speaker 2: that who he had just signed lease with. God a
Speaker 2: horrific serial killer. His apartment on Melrose was on the
Speaker 2: first floor, and this made it easy for him to
Speaker 2: hide his victims underneath the floorboards, and he always had
Speaker 2: so much fun dismembering his victims when he thought it
Speaker 2: was time for him to move on. It also had
Speaker 2: a garden in the backyard where he would often sprinkle
Speaker 2: a little pieces of bone fragments. At first, when Dennis
Speaker 2: needed to dispose of his victims' bodies, he would have
Speaker 2: little bombfires in his backyard and after the fire was
Speaker 2: large enough, he would throw in some body parts and
Speaker 2: internal organs. To hide the smell of burning flesh and organs,
Speaker 2: he would throw in a piece of rubber from old tire.
Speaker 2: Now that I can see that covering up smell. That
Speaker 2: is a horrible smell, burning rubber. The body parts that
Speaker 2: Dennis wanted to keep were then buried in a hole
Speaker 2: that he dug next to his makeshift fire pit. Remember
Speaker 2: his time as a butcher in the army, it's very helpful.
Speaker 2: When he felt his apartment was getting a little too crowded,
Speaker 2: rather than stopping his murder spree, he would take a
Speaker 2: body from underneath the floorboards and he would use these
Speaker 2: butchering skills to cut up the bodies into smaller pieces,
Speaker 2: and he would then throw these pieces into a pot
Speaker 2: to boil the flesh off the bones, while throwing the
Speaker 2: organs into the trash for disposal. That way. Ugh, I swear,
Speaker 2: it's like I throw down my mouth a little bit
Speaker 2: when I read stuff.
Speaker 3: I know it's completely elaborate.
Speaker 2: It is so I don't even know how you live
Speaker 2: with yourself. That's a whole other level of living. These
Speaker 2: messages wouldn't quite work as well after he moved into
Speaker 2: his next apartment, though. This new apartment had other neighbors
Speaker 2: who lived in the same apartment building had no garden,
Speaker 2: and he chose the apartment that was on the top floor.
Speaker 2: Now was he trying to get on the straight and narrow, No,
Speaker 2: he No, he didn't. He did have yet another failed
Speaker 2: attempted murder, though, and this victim's name was Paul Knobs.
Speaker 2: Now Paul was nineteen years old, and the two of
Speaker 2: them met at the Golden Lion pub. The two of
Speaker 2: them got wasted and they took a stumbling stroll back
Speaker 2: to Dennis's new apartment. The two of them had a
Speaker 2: few more drinks and went to bed together, and around
Speaker 2: two thirty that morning, Paul woke up with a terrible headache,
Speaker 2: but was able to fall back asleep. Later that morning,
Speaker 2: around six am, he woke up again, and this time
Speaker 2: he found his way into the kitchen. In the kitchen,
Speaker 2: there was a mirror, and when Paul looked in the mirror,
Speaker 2: he saw intense bruising around his neck, and his eyes
Speaker 2: were completely bloodshot and his face was beat up. Dennis,
Speaker 2: at one point woke up as well, saw Paul in
Speaker 2: the kitchen and told him he looked like shit. To
Speaker 2: go see a doctor. The following day, he went to
Speaker 2: the hospital that was in the university where he was attending.
Speaker 2: He was then informed that someone had tried to strangle him,
Speaker 2: but he didn't want to make a report because he
Speaker 2: didn't want himself to be outed as gay. So you
Speaker 2: have no memory of being strangled, doctor tells you, and
Speaker 2: you can't say anything. That's what a terrible position to
Speaker 2: find yourself in. There was yet another attempted murder, but
Speaker 2: this time the victim was a drag queen named Kara
Speaker 2: the Fox, but he was also known as Carl Stodter.
Speaker 2: When Stotter came to the apartment. He was strangled and
Speaker 2: Dennis also attempted to drown him. While Dennis was on
Speaker 2: top of him, Carl woke up not being able to breathe,
Speaker 2: and while panicking, Carl thought that Dennis was trying to
Speaker 2: help him clear his airway or something. Dennis then carried
Speaker 2: him into the bathroom and put him in a bathtub
Speaker 2: full of warm water. Dennis tried to drown Carl in
Speaker 2: the bathtub, and Carl was begging for him to stop.
Speaker 2: The next time Carl's head wood underwater, he stopped struggling.
Speaker 2: Dennis thought that he had finally murdered Carl, so he
Speaker 2: took him out of the bathtub and placed him on
Speaker 2: the couch, where he began to lick his face Denis MM.
Speaker 2: Dennis then took him to bed and talked him next
Speaker 2: to him. When Carl regained consciousness, he asked to be
Speaker 2: taken to the train station, to which Dennis agreed. Later,
Speaker 2: Carl wrote a letter to Dennis asking him why he
Speaker 2: attacked it like that, and Dennis wrote back, quote what
Speaker 2: passed between us was a thin strand of love and
Speaker 2: humanity end quote. Someone's being gas lit Carl M. Carl
Speaker 2: also saw a doctor for his injuries, and the doctors
Speaker 2: told him that he had been manually strangled, but Dennis
Speaker 2: told him that his throat had gotten caught in a
Speaker 2: sleeping bag zipper. Regardless, he agreed to meet Dennis again,
Speaker 2: but never kept the appointment. Carl never went to the
Speaker 2: police to report what had happened to him. After this
Speaker 2: failed attempt, Dennis struck again, and this time he didn't fail.
Speaker 2: The next person that Dennis murdered was a man named
Speaker 2: John Howlett, and John had actually met Dennis twice before
Speaker 2: his murder. They had originally met in December of nineteen
Speaker 2: eighty one and then again in March of nineteen eighty two.
Speaker 2: When Dennis started to strangle John, he thought as hard
Speaker 2: as he possibly could. Unfortunately, Dennis was able to gain
Speaker 2: control over John by sticking his head in the kitchen sink,
Speaker 2: and after a few minutes, John was dead. John was
Speaker 2: Dennis's first murder in his new apartment, so his methods
Speaker 2: of disposal were different than ripping up floorboards. He quickly
Speaker 2: dismembered his body and boiled off all the skin off
Speaker 2: his bones ow Dennis's second murder at the new apartment
Speaker 2: came in September, six months after murdering John Graham. Allen
Speaker 2: was a father, and he found himself in Dennis's apartment
Speaker 2: waiting for a fresh omelet that was being cooked by Dennis.
Speaker 2: While Graham was eating, he was strangled, and after he
Speaker 2: was murdered, Dennis placed his body in the bathtub and
Speaker 2: left it there for a few days. After he was
Speaker 2: done with Graham's body, he cut the body up into
Speaker 2: small pieces so that he could flush it down the toilet.
Speaker 4: Wow.
Speaker 2: In January of nineteen eighty three, Dennis brought home his
Speaker 2: final victim, twenty year old Steven Sinclair. The two of
Speaker 2: them had met at what had been a classic spot
Speaker 2: for him to pick up his victims, the local pub.
Speaker 2: The two of them sat together, drinking heavily before they
Speaker 2: went back to Dennis's apartment to listen to some music.
Speaker 2: According to reports, Dennis said the words quote here I
Speaker 2: go again, Stephen end quote before he strangled him to
Speaker 2: death with a string he had found in the kitchen.
Speaker 2: At one point, Dennis saw some marks on the wrist
Speaker 2: of Stephen, and this told Dennis that he had already
Speaker 2: attempted to take his own life, and this made him
Speaker 2: feel better about killing Stephen, he thought it was better
Speaker 2: to relieve him of all the pain that he had
Speaker 2: already had so much of in one lifetime. After he
Speaker 2: was dead, Dennis cut him up into little pieces and
Speaker 2: flushed his remains down the toilet. The bodies were eventually
Speaker 2: found when plumbers in the area found something weird in
Speaker 2: a drain that they were trying to unclog. The blockage
Speaker 2: was human flesh, and it was the flesh from one
Speaker 2: of the victims, and it was specifically of a human hand,
Speaker 2: along with other human tissue. And the reason why the
Speaker 2: plumbers were called was because Dennis stupidly ran to his
Speaker 2: landlord saying that his dreams were clogged. But I kep right.
Speaker 2: I woke up and it was all a dream. But
Speaker 2: in all actuality, he was the one who clogged them,
Speaker 2: and he knew that when he founded the complaint. The
Speaker 2: clog left the whole block of tenants, including Dennis, outrage
Speaker 2: because there was a horrid smell coming from the manhole
Speaker 2: that was nearby. Dennis didn't want to be the only
Speaker 2: person not complaining because in his mind, that would have
Speaker 2: looked awfully suspicious. With all of the complaints coming in
Speaker 2: the landlord sent the sewage company named dinoh Rod to
Speaker 2: investigate the clog on the property. When the sewage professionals
Speaker 2: got to the neighborhood of Muzwell Hill, there was nothing
Speaker 2: that the workers could have done to prepare themselves for
Speaker 2: what they were about to witness and smell. When one
Speaker 2: of the workers lifted the man whole cover, he looked
Speaker 2: down to see a fleshy substance along with tiny bones
Speaker 2: being eaten by rats. Dennis looked at the slop, knowing,
Speaker 2: gosh darn well what the sludge was made of, and
Speaker 2: he commented, quote, it looks to me like someone has
Speaker 2: been flushing down there, Kentucky fried chicken end quote. You
Speaker 2: couldn't make this up.
Speaker 3: Yeah right, this is oh.
Speaker 2: The sewage worker, Michael Katrine, immediately knew that the bones
Speaker 2: were not chicken bones. He knew that they were human bones.
Speaker 2: The bones were sent to the Charing Cross Hospital where
Speaker 2: a professor looked at the bones and tissue, telling the
Speaker 2: detectives that these remains had come from a person who
Speaker 2: had been strangled. Along with handbones were neck tissue, and
Speaker 2: the neck tissue showed severe ligature marks. So detectives went
Speaker 2: to inspect the apartments, and they easily traced the smell
Speaker 2: of decomposition back to Dennis's top story apartment. As soon
Speaker 2: as the detectives stepped foot inside, they noticed the smell
Speaker 2: of rotting flesh. The officers asked Dennis where the rest
Speaker 2: of the human bodies were, and he led them to
Speaker 2: his closet, where garbage bags were filled with what was
Speaker 2: left of Graham and Stephen oh Man. Dennis was soon arrested,
Speaker 2: and he confessed to killing between fifteen and sixteen young
Speaker 2: men and boys. The police had originally thought that he
Speaker 2: had only killed one or two, since that was all
Speaker 2: that they had found at the apartment at the time
Speaker 2: of his arrest. While he was in custody, Dennis began
Speaker 2: talking and eventually told them everything that had happened, detailed
Speaker 2: by detail. He knew that he had killed all of
Speaker 2: these people, but he couldn't tell the police any of
Speaker 2: the victim's names. Dennis could tell the detectives every detail
Speaker 2: about the victim, from their height to their body types,
Speaker 2: the type of clothes they wore, type of hair color, tattoos,
Speaker 2: no name. So he was charged with six counts of
Speaker 2: murder and two attempted murders. Which he was found guilty
Speaker 2: of in nineteen eighty three. He was sentenced to spend
Speaker 2: the rest of his miserable life in prison, and while
Speaker 2: in prison, he spent a lot of time translating books
Speaker 2: to braille. Dennis did not express a single sign of
Speaker 2: remorse for the murders, and he didn't give a shit
Speaker 2: if he ever got out. He became even more popular
Speaker 2: when Jeffrey Dahmer was arrested. So see like how you
Speaker 2: called it. So yep, he gets arrested. Now he's back
Speaker 2: in the limelight, and Dennis was then dubbed the British
Speaker 2: Jeffrey Dahmer, even though Dennis had been in prison long
Speaker 2: before Dohmer.
Speaker 1: I was gonna say, Jeffrey Dahmer should have been the
Speaker 1: American Dennis Nils.
Speaker 2: Thank you, yes, right, good call. Dennis was interviewed and
Speaker 2: commented on Dahmer's crimes, and when Dennis was asked why
Speaker 2: he never ate any of his victims, he replied by
Speaker 2: stating that he was, quote unquote, he was strictly a
Speaker 2: bacon and eggs man. Dennis died in twenty eighteen after
Speaker 2: he had suffered an abdominal aortic aneurysm and he was
Speaker 2: seventy two years old. Wow. That is fucking crazy, isn't it. Yeah,
Speaker 2: you are correct when you say it should have been
Speaker 2: the American Dennis Nilssen mm hmm, because his story is
Speaker 2: just as.
Speaker 3: I mean, Jeffrey Dahmer.
Speaker 1: The only thing he did differently is he ate m
Speaker 1: hm victims too, right, But he did, I mean he
Speaker 1: kept body.
Speaker 2: Parts and oh in the freezer and all this, and yeah,
Speaker 2: so I mean it was very similar, very very similar.
Speaker 1: Just imagine there in our lifetime two of these people
Speaker 1: excite at least got caught.
Speaker 3: I don't even know. There could be another one out
Speaker 3: there that just hasn't been caught. But what the fuck?
Speaker 2: Right, It's just it blows my mind restory with you.
Speaker 2: I'm just like, no, I was trying to, like, would
Speaker 2: I make this decision? What if I did make this
Speaker 2: decision and like something like necropacy or necrophilia or eating flesh.
Speaker 2: I can't even put myself in that position. No, Like
Speaker 2: that's very specific.
Speaker 1: And I understand, like you don't want to be rejected. Okay, sure,
Speaker 1: sure everybody feels that way, but you know what, like
Speaker 1: I or like you don't want to be alone. Okay,
Speaker 1: but fuck, are you freaking kidding me? Like, there's so
Speaker 1: many people out there.
Speaker 3: You're not gonna try again. You're just gonna kill somebody.
Speaker 3: And that's that. I just I don't know. I don't know.
Speaker 2: And who are you to take away someone's right to choose?
Speaker 2: Who the fuck are you getting doll? You go get
Speaker 2: a blow You're the reason for blow up dolls. They're
Speaker 2: made for people like you. It's lifeless and it has holes, right,
Speaker 2: you know, come on, But yes, my dear, that is
Speaker 2: the story of den Neilson. Oh, thank you so much,
Speaker 2: Oh my pleasure?
Speaker 3: Oh dang it? You know what would have really made this?
Speaker 2: Damn all right? So I lost. Apparently, let's make this
Speaker 2: a competition. I did not implement aureate, and I maybe
Speaker 2: could have had I been on it. The word of the.
Speaker 4: Day, okay, girl, So I'm going to write that down
Speaker 4: and maybe I'll have to use the next word of
Speaker 4: the day and do a two for in one.
Speaker 1: Well, thank you Shannon very much for that crazy, just
Speaker 1: fucked up story. Thank you everyone for listening to this
Speaker 1: week's episode. If you haven't done so already, please hit
Speaker 1: the subscribe or follow button. I whatever app you're listening to,
Speaker 1: and if you would like more episodes than what we
Speaker 1: offer on the apps, you can go to Patreon dot
Speaker 1: com slash t and T crimes and you can find
Speaker 1: even more episodes. If you would like to subscribe and
Speaker 1: visit our website Crimes Andconsequences dot com.
Speaker 3: That's about it.
Speaker 1: We have to update that website with your information on it.
Speaker 2: Yes, yes we do. I'm down four pounds, so give
Speaker 2: me two more weeks. I want to lose ten more
Speaker 2: and I'll get those headshots.
Speaker 3: Oh girl, you're gorgeous. Well, thank you again and until
Speaker 3: our next episode.
Speaker 2: Until next time time you love you, I'd love you.
Speaker 3: I'll see you by