WEBVTT 1 00:00:12.080 --> 00:00:16.280 This episode maintained content of a graphic nature, including descriptions 2 00:00:16.280 --> 00:00:20.879 of physical and sexual violence against adults, children, and animals. 3 00:00:21.440 --> 00:00:23.399 Listener discretion is advised. 4 00:00:34.479 --> 00:00:38.079 Hi. I'm Shannon. Hi I'm Tanya, and we are Crimes 5 00:00:38.079 --> 00:00:41.960 and Consequences, a hardcore true crime podcast. 6 00:00:43.240 --> 00:00:45.119 Hey Shannon, Hey Tanya. 7 00:00:45.159 --> 00:00:45.679 How are you? 8 00:00:46.000 --> 00:00:47.799 I'm doing great? How are you doing? 9 00:00:48.200 --> 00:00:50.359 I am doing really good. It was a great day 10 00:00:50.399 --> 00:00:54.399 today outside, as you know, it was you rgious. I 11 00:00:54.479 --> 00:00:57.960 spoke with my neighbor Brenda, a mutual friend of ours, 12 00:00:58.159 --> 00:01:01.079 and we were talking about just how beautiful it was, 13 00:01:01.119 --> 00:01:05.079 and I thought, where is weather like this all the time? Breezy, 14 00:01:05.200 --> 00:01:08.799 no humidity, about seventy six degrees. I've heard some good 15 00:01:08.799 --> 00:01:13.599 things about San Diego. I've never been, but I have 16 00:01:13.760 --> 00:01:19.079 been contemplating spending some time in Spain. I'm hoping that 17 00:01:19.400 --> 00:01:21.879 Spain just sounds like it would have nice weather. What 18 00:01:21.920 --> 00:01:24.680 are your thoughts? And oh have you been? 19 00:01:26.719 --> 00:01:27.040 Oh? 20 00:01:27.079 --> 00:01:29.519 Spain sounds lovely, doesn't it. 21 00:01:30.079 --> 00:01:30.640 Yeah? 22 00:01:30.840 --> 00:01:35.280 I think I've seen photos of Barcelona and it's gorgeous. 23 00:01:35.959 --> 00:01:38.760 I've never been to Spain. I have been to San Diego, 24 00:01:39.280 --> 00:01:41.560 and San Diego is gorgeous. 25 00:01:41.920 --> 00:01:43.480 I went to San Diego Zoo. 26 00:01:43.920 --> 00:01:46.239 Yeah, Oh my gosh, I would love that. 27 00:01:46.840 --> 00:01:47.079 Yeah. 28 00:01:47.120 --> 00:01:50.519 When I went to California to visit my friend Jody, 29 00:01:50.920 --> 00:01:53.359 we went to the San Diego Zoo one day because 30 00:01:53.400 --> 00:01:55.599 San Diego might have been about two hours from where 31 00:01:55.640 --> 00:01:59.000 she is. Oh why yeah, it was gorgeous. It's beautiful. 32 00:01:59.359 --> 00:02:03.079 And they do get hot weather in California. 33 00:02:02.560 --> 00:02:05.280 Because I remember I visited her in August once and 34 00:02:05.719 --> 00:02:10.439 we went to Disneyland and it was as fuck. Yeah, 35 00:02:10.520 --> 00:02:13.759 but in her home she was really close to the ocean, 36 00:02:14.080 --> 00:02:16.919 so her house like she didn't need air conditioning and 37 00:02:16.960 --> 00:02:17.719 it was August. 38 00:02:18.400 --> 00:02:21.800 Oh nice, I think, Oh yeah it was. 39 00:02:21.879 --> 00:02:22.639 It was gorgeous. 40 00:02:22.680 --> 00:02:24.400 But I'm doing great otherwise. 41 00:02:24.520 --> 00:02:28.080 And you and I have talked about you know, you 42 00:02:28.199 --> 00:02:31.800 said you wanted to expand your lex kan. This is correct, yes, 43 00:02:32.240 --> 00:02:35.520 And so you and I have talked about maybe introducing 44 00:02:35.560 --> 00:02:36.960 a word of the day. 45 00:02:37.400 --> 00:02:38.960 I am so on board with this. 46 00:02:41.240 --> 00:02:43.120 So I do get an email. 47 00:02:43.240 --> 00:02:45.120 I think I get two different ones, and there are 48 00:02:45.120 --> 00:02:47.319 words of the day and a lot of time these 49 00:02:47.360 --> 00:02:51.039 words are words I would never use. So Shannon and 50 00:02:51.080 --> 00:02:53.439 I talked about it before we started recording, and we 51 00:02:53.479 --> 00:02:56.039 went through a bunch of words and one was really fun. 52 00:02:56.039 --> 00:02:56.639 It what was it? 53 00:02:56.879 --> 00:03:00.680 Consanguineus? It was fun san guineas. 54 00:03:01.039 --> 00:03:05.199 That means people coming from a common ancestor. 55 00:03:04.960 --> 00:03:06.520 So sharing the same blood. 56 00:03:06.639 --> 00:03:08.680 Yes, yeah, I don't think I'm ever going to use 57 00:03:08.719 --> 00:03:12.120 the word consanguineus, even though I liked you, because it's 58 00:03:12.360 --> 00:03:15.479 it reminds me of that scene in Elf where he's 59 00:03:15.520 --> 00:03:19.639 like Francisco, that's you know, He's like, that's fun to say. 60 00:03:20.879 --> 00:03:25.360 That's one of my favorite I love him by Buddy, Buddy, Buddy, 61 00:03:25.439 --> 00:03:28.680 the Elf, Buddy the Elf. We did decide on a word, 62 00:03:28.759 --> 00:03:34.039 and it is oriate, oriate, oriate, oriate, and tell us 63 00:03:34.080 --> 00:03:35.520 what does oriate mean? 64 00:03:35.960 --> 00:03:41.199 Oriate means denoting made of or having the color gold, 65 00:03:41.560 --> 00:03:43.439 and it's spelled a U. 66 00:03:43.800 --> 00:03:50.159 R E A te oriate. So oh yeah, I had 67 00:03:50.159 --> 00:03:52.800 no idea. I was in my head. You know, it's weird. 68 00:03:52.800 --> 00:03:55.000 I have this thing, a condition. I don't even know 69 00:03:55.000 --> 00:03:57.879 what it's called medically, but I hear a word, I 70 00:03:57.919 --> 00:04:00.199 can spell it or see it in my head how 71 00:04:00.199 --> 00:04:02.840 it should be spelled. And when you said orio, I 72 00:04:02.879 --> 00:04:03.159 was like. 73 00:04:03.120 --> 00:04:05.520 Oh ori, you know, yeah? 74 00:04:05.599 --> 00:04:10.479 A you well the fancy ri okay a you ye do. 75 00:04:10.599 --> 00:04:13.000 I'm writing this down that was a good one our 76 00:04:13.159 --> 00:04:16.399 eight I'm going to use that post taste. 77 00:04:17.800 --> 00:04:20.959 Let's incorporated into our lexicon for. 78 00:04:20.959 --> 00:04:26.600 This week or I A you I love it? Okay, 79 00:04:27.040 --> 00:04:29.480 all right, all right, I got that down and I 80 00:04:29.519 --> 00:04:32.279 am bringing you a good story. Yeah. 81 00:04:32.279 --> 00:04:33.519 What do you got for us today? 82 00:04:34.160 --> 00:04:37.639 Well, let me open it up and we're going to 83 00:04:37.720 --> 00:04:42.319 go back here to nineteen forty five to meet mister 84 00:04:42.480 --> 00:04:47.199 Dennis Andrew Nilssen November twenty third, nineteen forty five to 85 00:04:47.279 --> 00:04:49.720 be exact, that's when the day of his birth is 86 00:04:50.000 --> 00:04:55.600 and that makes him a Sagittarius magetary fire sign into 87 00:04:55.600 --> 00:05:00.839 a Scottish mother, Elizabeth and his Norwegian father Ola. Dennis 88 00:05:00.959 --> 00:05:05.120 was born in Fraserburg, Scotland, as the second of three 89 00:05:05.199 --> 00:05:08.639 children that his parents would have together. The marriage between 90 00:05:08.720 --> 00:05:12.480 Elizabeth and Olav was the furthest thing from happy due 91 00:05:12.480 --> 00:05:16.800 to his alcoholism, so Elizabeth left him, took her kids, 92 00:05:16.920 --> 00:05:21.360 and moved in with her father. Luckily, Dennis absolutely adored 93 00:05:21.439 --> 00:05:25.079 his maternal grandfather, so when they moved in, Dennis was 94 00:05:25.240 --> 00:05:29.240 over the moon. When his grandfather sadly passed away when 95 00:05:29.399 --> 00:05:33.360 Dennis was only six, This completely shot him down, shattered 96 00:05:33.399 --> 00:05:36.639 him and seeing his father's corpse at the funeral home 97 00:05:36.680 --> 00:05:39.680 really shook him, and later Dennis would say that it 98 00:05:39.720 --> 00:05:44.160 shook him so much he believes that psychologically changed him, 99 00:05:44.439 --> 00:05:45.920 like at that moment, if he had to pick a 100 00:05:45.959 --> 00:05:50.439 moment in time now. Elizabeth and Olav they eventually got divorced, 101 00:05:50.639 --> 00:05:53.120 but she remarried and she went on to have four 102 00:05:53.160 --> 00:05:56.800 more children with her new husband, and Elizabeth basically seemed 103 00:05:56.839 --> 00:06:00.480 to give all of her love and affection to number 104 00:06:00.480 --> 00:06:05.800 two of children. So yeah, this left Dennis completely depressed, alone, 105 00:06:06.120 --> 00:06:09.839 and completely withdrawn from his mother and siblings. From a 106 00:06:09.879 --> 00:06:13.720 young age, Dennis knew that he was attracted to other boys, 107 00:06:13.920 --> 00:06:17.120 although he was not out as gay. Sometimes the kids 108 00:06:17.120 --> 00:06:19.439 at school would make fun of him and accuse him 109 00:06:19.560 --> 00:06:24.720 of being gay, which, honestly, Tanya, it's unfortunately, or just 110 00:06:24.839 --> 00:06:27.959 almost like a rite of passage. How do you escape 111 00:06:28.600 --> 00:06:32.040 right your junior high and high school years without someone 112 00:06:32.399 --> 00:06:35.399 calling you gay? Yeah, or whichever way they use you 113 00:06:35.439 --> 00:06:39.319 know what I'm saying, right, See, it's almost like you 114 00:06:39.360 --> 00:06:42.279 no one comes out on skates. I'm not making it right, 115 00:06:42.360 --> 00:06:44.839 I'm just saying, gosh, I you know, in the eighties, 116 00:06:45.120 --> 00:06:48.759 my goodness, that was quite a gravy word covered lots 117 00:06:48.759 --> 00:06:55.639 of things totally, but when it came to school dances, 118 00:06:55.839 --> 00:06:58.439 Dennis always leaned on his sister to be his date. 119 00:06:58.959 --> 00:07:01.879 His homosexuality he didn't seem to get him in trouble 120 00:07:01.920 --> 00:07:04.639 when he was young, But this is kind of uncommon 121 00:07:04.759 --> 00:07:07.639 given the many stories we have covered like this in 122 00:07:07.680 --> 00:07:11.399 the past. Yeah, Dennis was a good boy. There was 123 00:07:11.480 --> 00:07:14.639 no sexual assault committed against anyone when he was younger, 124 00:07:14.839 --> 00:07:18.079 and he kept his sexual orientation to himself. He was 125 00:07:18.120 --> 00:07:22.079 always aware of his homosexuality, but at the time this 126 00:07:22.360 --> 00:07:25.519 was heavily frowned upon. I mean nineteen forty five when 127 00:07:25.560 --> 00:07:28.079 he was born, so he's like fifteen, so that'd be 128 00:07:28.120 --> 00:07:31.879 a yeah, I mean still come on. So Dennis was 129 00:07:32.000 --> 00:07:35.360 never truly comfortable in his own skin. He learned how 130 00:07:35.399 --> 00:07:38.360 to cope in the worst way imaginable, and he took 131 00:07:38.399 --> 00:07:43.120 his discomfort and sexual frustration out on his victims. At 132 00:07:43.160 --> 00:07:46.920 the age of sixteen, in nineteen sixty one, Dennis enlisted 133 00:07:46.920 --> 00:07:49.639 in the Army, and while in the Army, he became 134 00:07:49.720 --> 00:07:52.639 a cook and served in the Army Catering Corps as 135 00:07:52.720 --> 00:07:57.399 their butcher for eleven years, splitting his time between Norway, Yemen, 136 00:07:57.519 --> 00:08:01.560 and Germany. His initial training was spent stationed in Germany, 137 00:08:01.720 --> 00:08:04.800 but he worked as the butcher in Yemen and Norway, 138 00:08:05.040 --> 00:08:08.199 and these butchering skills would later come in handy when 139 00:08:08.240 --> 00:08:10.480 we get into all of the blood that will be 140 00:08:10.639 --> 00:08:15.199 on his hands usually. You know, the army or other 141 00:08:15.240 --> 00:08:18.439 branch of military is a place where many people find 142 00:08:18.839 --> 00:08:22.360 and have found the structure and discipline that their lives 143 00:08:22.439 --> 00:08:23.199 truly needed. 144 00:08:23.879 --> 00:08:28.199 Did it happen for you when you were in the military, Well, 145 00:08:28.199 --> 00:08:28.879 I'll tell you what. 146 00:08:29.120 --> 00:08:33.480 That structure definitely. You know my parents they did give 147 00:08:33.519 --> 00:08:37.600 me structure and then the military just really drove it 148 00:08:37.759 --> 00:08:41.759 home whatever, which is good because I am definitely someone 149 00:08:41.799 --> 00:08:47.080 who thrives in a structured environment. Cass I Ugh, it's 150 00:08:47.159 --> 00:08:52.200 like no, thank you. You know, someone should be in 151 00:08:52.279 --> 00:08:56.000 charge here. Dennis overall didn't do poorly while in the army, 152 00:08:56.080 --> 00:08:58.399 and he did well with the training and learning the 153 00:08:58.440 --> 00:09:01.840 different skills to become the soul. He loved being around people, 154 00:09:01.919 --> 00:09:05.480 and he did well with the organization, rules and friendships 155 00:09:05.480 --> 00:09:08.440 that the army had to offer. He basically had an 156 00:09:08.519 --> 00:09:11.960 unlimited amount of drinking buddies, and he loved this just 157 00:09:12.039 --> 00:09:14.440 as much as he loved to drink. His love for 158 00:09:14.519 --> 00:09:17.480 alcohol became more intense, and the more he went out 159 00:09:17.480 --> 00:09:21.159 with friends, the heavier he drank. In nineteen sixty seven, 160 00:09:21.480 --> 00:09:24.320 Dennis was sent to Yemen, and this is where he 161 00:09:24.480 --> 00:09:27.519 actually had to use the skills he learned as a soldier. 162 00:09:28.039 --> 00:09:32.200 The conditions while stationed in Yemen were really dangerous, and 163 00:09:32.279 --> 00:09:35.200 he soon began to lose friends, but it wasn't for 164 00:09:35.240 --> 00:09:38.639 any personal reasons. He was losing his friends on the 165 00:09:38.679 --> 00:09:42.600 battlefield and on many occasions he saw his friends get 166 00:09:42.639 --> 00:09:46.720 shot dead by enemy gunfire. He obviously wasn't one of 167 00:09:46.720 --> 00:09:50.440 the soldiers who was killed, but he was kidnapped while 168 00:09:50.480 --> 00:09:54.120 in Yemen by a taxi cab driver. The driver beat 169 00:09:54.200 --> 00:09:57.840 Dennis until he was unconscious, and when Dennis awoke, he 170 00:09:58.000 --> 00:10:01.080 was in the trunk of that same cab. After the 171 00:10:01.159 --> 00:10:03.679 driver got Dennis right where he wanted him, he dragged 172 00:10:03.720 --> 00:10:06.320 him out of the trunk. Dennis was a kinky guy, 173 00:10:06.360 --> 00:10:09.200 and he liked to have his victims unconscious, but this 174 00:10:09.399 --> 00:10:11.559 was not his style at all because he wasn't in 175 00:10:11.600 --> 00:10:15.440 control of the situation. Thankfully, the Army had trained him 176 00:10:15.480 --> 00:10:18.320 in various ways to get out of a situation such 177 00:10:18.399 --> 00:10:21.639 as this and he was able to use the carjack 178 00:10:21.679 --> 00:10:24.320 as a weapon. He whacked the driver out as soon 179 00:10:24.360 --> 00:10:26.759 as he got his chance, and after Dennis knocked the 180 00:10:26.840 --> 00:10:29.679 driver out, he put the driver right where he had 181 00:10:29.720 --> 00:10:32.559 been locked in the trunk. Dennis was able to get 182 00:10:32.600 --> 00:10:36.120 out of this basically on scathe, but this was really 183 00:10:36.159 --> 00:10:39.720 the first time he had used violence against another human being, 184 00:10:40.159 --> 00:10:42.720 whether it was in self defense or not. Believe it 185 00:10:42.840 --> 00:10:46.559 or not, Dennis fantasized a lot about this incident, and 186 00:10:46.600 --> 00:10:50.519 he would often masturbate while thinking about the whole fiasco. 187 00:10:51.120 --> 00:10:57.039 WHOA yes, so now you know yeah? And Dennis he 188 00:10:57.360 --> 00:11:00.960 loved the violent details that took place, even though he 189 00:11:01.000 --> 00:11:03.600 could have been killed, and the part that turned him 190 00:11:03.600 --> 00:11:07.799 on the most was, of course the violence. While in Yemen, 191 00:11:08.240 --> 00:11:11.960 Dennis became very familiar with the painting called The Raft 192 00:11:12.039 --> 00:11:15.840 of Medusa, and he would often incorporate the images of 193 00:11:15.919 --> 00:11:20.799 this painting into his sexual fantasies and his masturbation. This 194 00:11:20.960 --> 00:11:25.200 painting embodies the aftermath of a shipwreck. Most men in 195 00:11:25.240 --> 00:11:29.159 the painting are shirtless and starving while reaching their arms 196 00:11:29.159 --> 00:11:32.279 out in a hopeless call for help, knowing that they 197 00:11:32.320 --> 00:11:35.879 will most likely die. One detail in the painting that 198 00:11:36.000 --> 00:11:40.360 Dennis really loved. Shows the naked body of a deceased 199 00:11:40.399 --> 00:11:45.120 man and his body is covering another man's lap. To Dennis, 200 00:11:45.159 --> 00:11:48.320 this shows how a man could truly submit when times 201 00:11:48.360 --> 00:11:51.679 became desperate. In the painting, it was very hard to 202 00:11:51.720 --> 00:11:54.360 tell which men were dead and which ones were alive, 203 00:11:54.840 --> 00:11:58.440 but this still told Dennis that the living dominated over 204 00:11:58.480 --> 00:12:02.279 the dead, and that fact was good enough for him. 205 00:12:02.440 --> 00:12:05.679 So we're gonna that's kind of setting the stage of 206 00:12:06.000 --> 00:12:10.039 Theandards doesn't necessarily need a heart beats. But due to 207 00:12:10.120 --> 00:12:15.759 his homosexuality, Dennis was a little nervous showering around other men. 208 00:12:16.240 --> 00:12:18.919 He always took showers with nobody else around due to 209 00:12:18.960 --> 00:12:22.639 his overwhelming fear of getting an erection after seeing another 210 00:12:22.720 --> 00:12:27.320 naked man. Regardless of his sexuality, Dennis still made friends 211 00:12:27.480 --> 00:12:30.960 and he seemed to have formed relationships, but it wasn't 212 00:12:31.000 --> 00:12:33.960 all sunshine and rainbows. Shit got a little weird when 213 00:12:34.000 --> 00:12:37.840 he was on base in Germany. One night, Dennis overindulged 214 00:12:37.840 --> 00:12:40.159 and got a little drunk with a younger German man, 215 00:12:40.600 --> 00:12:43.240 and the two got so carried away to the point 216 00:12:43.279 --> 00:12:46.519 the two men passed out on the floor together. Dennis 217 00:12:46.559 --> 00:12:49.240 woke up not knowing where he was, but he did 218 00:12:49.279 --> 00:12:52.519 remember the friend that he had made earlier the night before. 219 00:12:53.120 --> 00:12:57.399 Even still, this man was a stranger to Dennis. Nothing 220 00:12:57.440 --> 00:13:00.639 ever happened sexually between the two, But when Dennis woke 221 00:13:00.720 --> 00:13:03.039 up and saw the German man lying next to him, 222 00:13:03.559 --> 00:13:08.120 Dennis got this unsettling impulse. After this urged, he covered 223 00:13:08.120 --> 00:13:11.399 his entire body in telcum powder to look at himself 224 00:13:11.399 --> 00:13:15.559 in the mirror. He imagined he was fucking dead, so that's. 225 00:13:15.480 --> 00:13:18.720 What he wanted to look creepy dude. Oh my goodness, 226 00:13:19.000 --> 00:13:20.399 this guy's a fucking weirdo. 227 00:13:20.759 --> 00:13:23.919 Uh no, kill my goodness. Dennis left the army in 228 00:13:23.960 --> 00:13:28.080 nineteen seventy two and moved to London, England, and upon 229 00:13:28.159 --> 00:13:31.840 his resignation, he trained with the police as a junior constable. 230 00:13:32.320 --> 00:13:34.799 Of course, at this time, Dennis didn't see himself as 231 00:13:34.840 --> 00:13:37.919 any sort of criminal, even though he felt a constant 232 00:13:38.039 --> 00:13:42.120 internal struggle to stay a good person. While training with 233 00:13:42.159 --> 00:13:46.000 the police, he learned what he was truly obsessed with, 234 00:13:46.399 --> 00:13:49.639 and since the police worked closely with the morgue and 235 00:13:50.000 --> 00:13:55.519 autopsy technicians, Dennis became morbidly fascinated with dead bodies, both 236 00:13:55.600 --> 00:14:00.200 before and after the autopsies were completed. Despite his new 237 00:14:00.200 --> 00:14:03.879 obsession and the excess that working with the police offered, 238 00:14:04.360 --> 00:14:06.919 Dennis left the police force to work as a recruiter. 239 00:14:07.440 --> 00:14:10.399 Soon after working at the recruitment center, he was made 240 00:14:10.399 --> 00:14:13.879 a supervisor. He was really good at his job and 241 00:14:13.919 --> 00:14:17.080 he worked really hard. While nobody at his place of 242 00:14:17.120 --> 00:14:21.799 employment knew about his sexuality, Dennis secretly visited gay bars 243 00:14:21.919 --> 00:14:25.480 and would have secret sexual rendezvous with other gay men. 244 00:14:25.960 --> 00:14:28.480 The life of a police officer would have been tough 245 00:14:28.519 --> 00:14:31.240 to live as a gay man around this time, but 246 00:14:31.399 --> 00:14:33.600 he did love the danger that came with living a 247 00:14:33.639 --> 00:14:37.679 double life. Although Dennis was meeting men on the regular, 248 00:14:38.200 --> 00:14:42.039 his sexual desires had yet to be satisfied. He needed 249 00:14:42.120 --> 00:14:46.879 much more. Hmm. I don't know how you become attracted 250 00:14:46.919 --> 00:14:50.360 to something that's dead. I don't get it. But maybe 251 00:14:50.399 --> 00:14:54.840 he can shed some light. His crimes can maybe open something. 252 00:14:55.399 --> 00:14:58.600 One year after Dennis left the army, he had his 253 00:14:58.720 --> 00:15:01.399 first run in with the police, and let me tell you, 254 00:15:01.559 --> 00:15:06.519 it was some very petty stuff. This was weird. In 255 00:15:06.600 --> 00:15:10.480 nineteen seventy three, while working as a recruitment interviewer, he 256 00:15:10.559 --> 00:15:14.360 met a man named David Painter. David went to the police, 257 00:15:14.360 --> 00:15:17.720 claiming that Dennis took some pictures of him. These weren't 258 00:15:17.759 --> 00:15:21.600 just ordinary headshots. These were pictures that Dennis took of 259 00:15:21.679 --> 00:15:25.440 David while he was asleep. Apparently, David found out about 260 00:15:25.440 --> 00:15:29.240 the photos and confronted Dennis about them, and the confrontation 261 00:15:29.519 --> 00:15:33.080 resulted in Dennis getting so worked up that he needed 262 00:15:33.080 --> 00:15:36.720 to be hospitalized. The police listened to David and they 263 00:15:36.759 --> 00:15:40.799 brought Dennison to be interviewed about the accusations, but unfortunately 264 00:15:40.840 --> 00:15:44.639 Dennis was released without being charged at all. Huh, that's 265 00:15:44.639 --> 00:15:48.399 some creepy stuff. Yeah, now is that at a chargeable offense? 266 00:15:48.960 --> 00:15:51.679 You know, if you sleep with someone and then there 267 00:15:51.720 --> 00:15:55.720 were pictures. Unless I'm missing something about the pictures. Was 268 00:15:55.759 --> 00:15:57.159 he covered in talcum powder? 269 00:15:57.360 --> 00:15:57.600 Yeah? 270 00:15:57.679 --> 00:16:01.960 I'm scared. This is fun settling if I'm just sleeping, 271 00:16:02.080 --> 00:16:04.480 or then it's creepy and still unsettling. 272 00:16:04.519 --> 00:16:05.559 But yeah, right. 273 00:16:06.039 --> 00:16:10.039 So two years later, Dennis meant someone named David Gillichin, 274 00:16:10.519 --> 00:16:13.919 and David seemed to be pretty important to him romantically. 275 00:16:14.399 --> 00:16:17.600 The two of them moved into an apartment together located 276 00:16:17.679 --> 00:16:22.120 at one ninety five Melrose Avenue in North London. Whenever 277 00:16:22.240 --> 00:16:25.840 asked about their relationship years later. David never admitted to 278 00:16:25.919 --> 00:16:29.440 being in a homosexual relationship with Dennis, but when their 279 00:16:29.639 --> 00:16:33.559 relationship ended, Dennis went off the deep end. He became 280 00:16:33.720 --> 00:16:37.039 severely depressed and he turned to alcohol to cope with 281 00:16:37.159 --> 00:16:40.399 how lonely he was, and this led to his first murder, 282 00:16:40.480 --> 00:16:43.159 which would occur a year and a half later. The 283 00:16:43.200 --> 00:16:46.519 same apartment is where Dennis would commit many of his murders, 284 00:16:46.879 --> 00:16:50.559 but he would later relocate and commit even more. Dennis 285 00:16:50.600 --> 00:16:54.480 found himself in the London neighborhood of Cricklewood in nineteen 286 00:16:54.559 --> 00:17:01.000 seventy eight. That's quaint Cricklewood and more specific, at the 287 00:17:01.200 --> 00:17:05.319 Cricklewood Arms Pub, Dennis had already had a few pints 288 00:17:05.319 --> 00:17:07.319 of his favorite beer. As he sat at the bar 289 00:17:07.799 --> 00:17:11.440 with his dark hair and dark brown eyes looking around 290 00:17:11.480 --> 00:17:14.880 the bar, someone piqued his interests someone that he could 291 00:17:14.920 --> 00:17:19.039 lure away. The boy's name was Stephen Dean Holmes, and 292 00:17:19.200 --> 00:17:22.440 Dennis knew that he could take advantage of Stephen because 293 00:17:22.440 --> 00:17:25.680 he was young, naive, and way too young to be 294 00:17:25.759 --> 00:17:29.480 in the bar let alone drinking. And when Dennis saw Stephen, 295 00:17:29.680 --> 00:17:31.880 he walked over to him and sat next to him, 296 00:17:32.279 --> 00:17:36.039 and the two began talking, and Dennis eventually invited him 297 00:17:36.039 --> 00:17:39.519 back to his apartment. It's not known what really transpired 298 00:17:39.559 --> 00:17:43.079 between Dennis and Stephen, other than the two drinking massive 299 00:17:43.079 --> 00:17:46.200 amounts of alcohol that night, and Dennis woke up with 300 00:17:46.319 --> 00:17:49.680 an attractive boy in bed next to him. Stephen was 301 00:17:49.720 --> 00:17:54.119 fourteen years old, but Dennis didn't give a shit about 302 00:17:54.119 --> 00:17:58.799 his age. He was just he's sick, yeah, and he's 303 00:17:58.960 --> 00:18:02.079 just so happy that someone finally agreed to go home 304 00:18:02.119 --> 00:18:05.480 with him that night. You know he was a predator, Yeah, 305 00:18:05.640 --> 00:18:09.240 he is. Dennis deep down knew that all of this 306 00:18:09.440 --> 00:18:12.039 was way too good to be true. Stephen was so 307 00:18:12.200 --> 00:18:14.720 drunk the night before, and Dennis knew that as soon 308 00:18:14.759 --> 00:18:17.799 as Stephen woke up and realized what was going on, 309 00:18:18.319 --> 00:18:21.440 he would jump up, get dressed, and leave and this 310 00:18:21.480 --> 00:18:24.400 would have all been for nothing, a one night stand. 311 00:18:24.880 --> 00:18:27.799 Dennis didn't give Stephen the chance to leave. He didn't 312 00:18:27.839 --> 00:18:30.279 even give him the chance to wake up. As soon 313 00:18:30.319 --> 00:18:33.079 as Dennis came out of the realization of what was 314 00:18:33.119 --> 00:18:36.440 going to happen if Stephen woke up, he strangled the 315 00:18:36.480 --> 00:18:39.880 fourteen year old boy with the necktie. Dennis thought that 316 00:18:40.039 --> 00:18:43.079 this was the only way he could truly take control 317 00:18:43.119 --> 00:18:47.039 over the situation. After he was dead, Dennis washed his 318 00:18:47.160 --> 00:18:50.200 body and took him back to bed with him. Although 319 00:18:50.200 --> 00:18:53.480 Dennis tried to have sex with Stephen's dead body, he 320 00:18:53.519 --> 00:18:56.960 couldn't complete the task and he fell asleep next to 321 00:18:57.000 --> 00:19:00.160 the body. He couldn't complete it because it's not not 322 00:19:00.319 --> 00:19:01.359 fucking natural. 323 00:19:01.640 --> 00:19:04.039 Yes, so probably not. 324 00:19:05.119 --> 00:19:07.839 I have to fight all the stop signs come out 325 00:19:08.160 --> 00:19:09.480 like his fucking fantasy. 326 00:19:09.680 --> 00:19:11.640 I don't I know. 327 00:19:11.960 --> 00:19:15.640 I mean, good Lord, I can only imagine what's gonna happen, 328 00:19:15.759 --> 00:19:17.279 so oh please do go on. 329 00:19:17.519 --> 00:19:22.680 Absolutely, Dennis wanted Stephen to stay with him, and he 330 00:19:22.720 --> 00:19:26.079 made sure that that happened. When Dennis strangled him, he 331 00:19:26.160 --> 00:19:30.359 only knocked him unconscious to kill him, he did something horrific. 332 00:19:30.880 --> 00:19:33.880 He slowly poured a bucket of water over his face 333 00:19:34.000 --> 00:19:38.319 to drown Stephen. Before this night, Dennis did some really 334 00:19:38.359 --> 00:19:40.920 mess up stuff. But now he was a cold blood 335 00:19:40.960 --> 00:19:43.319 and murderer, and he just took the life of a 336 00:19:43.359 --> 00:19:46.599 young teenaged boy who had his whole life ahead of him. 337 00:19:46.759 --> 00:19:50.240 And as we discussed in other cases, the killers will 338 00:19:50.279 --> 00:19:53.119 begin to think of where to dispose of the body. 339 00:19:53.559 --> 00:19:55.799 They need to have a moment to think of when 340 00:19:55.880 --> 00:19:58.640 to dispose the body, and they need time to think 341 00:19:58.680 --> 00:20:01.440 of where the body will be dash. This was not 342 00:20:01.519 --> 00:20:05.119 the case for Dennis. Dennis just had killed Stephen because 343 00:20:05.160 --> 00:20:06.880 he was scared that the boy would run out of 344 00:20:06.960 --> 00:20:09.519 the apartment as soon as he awoke. Why would he 345 00:20:09.599 --> 00:20:13.480 waste his time disposing of a perfectly fresh corpse, dead 346 00:20:13.559 --> 00:20:16.400 or alive. Dennis wanted Stephen to stay in his apartment 347 00:20:16.880 --> 00:20:20.240 with him forever, but where was he going to put 348 00:20:20.359 --> 00:20:23.640 his body? Well, he began to rip up the floorboards 349 00:20:23.680 --> 00:20:27.880 inside of his apartment and this would become Stephen's resting place. 350 00:20:28.240 --> 00:20:30.880 In fact, this would be the resting place for the 351 00:20:30.920 --> 00:20:34.400 rest of his victims over the next five years. Good 352 00:20:35.279 --> 00:20:39.720 five years later, Dennis wrote from prison about his first murder. 353 00:20:40.200 --> 00:20:43.279 He said that he had quote started down the avenue 354 00:20:43.319 --> 00:20:47.160 of death in possession of a new kind of flatmate unquote. 355 00:20:47.440 --> 00:20:51.680 Stephen's body would remain under the floorboards until Dennis relocated 356 00:20:51.720 --> 00:20:55.519 his body, along with the others, to the backyard. Dennis 357 00:20:55.559 --> 00:20:59.480 truly had an obsession with the dead bodies of his victims, 358 00:21:00.000 --> 00:21:02.759 made himself believe that a dead body was much more 359 00:21:02.880 --> 00:21:05.960 valuable than one with a heartbeat. He didn't want someone 360 00:21:06.000 --> 00:21:08.480 that was gonna leave him, and he certainly didn't want 361 00:21:08.519 --> 00:21:11.039 one that could make their own decisions. 362 00:21:12.160 --> 00:21:14.200 You know what this sounds like to me? It sounds 363 00:21:14.200 --> 00:21:15.160 like Jeffrey Dahmer. 364 00:21:15.599 --> 00:21:19.559 I was just thinking that too, Like this does sound 365 00:21:19.680 --> 00:21:20.319 like Dahmer. 366 00:21:20.960 --> 00:21:24.680 Yeah, like Jeffrey Dahmer didn't want people to leave him. Yeah, 367 00:21:24.960 --> 00:21:29.000 also didn't want them to they have a mind where 368 00:21:29.039 --> 00:21:32.200 they have a mind, and so yeah, this is very 369 00:21:32.640 --> 00:21:34.200 very Dahmer like it is. 370 00:21:34.759 --> 00:21:37.880 Dennis didn't get a chance to kill everyone that he 371 00:21:37.920 --> 00:21:41.440 came into contact with, and one man who survived was 372 00:21:41.480 --> 00:21:45.240 a Chinese student named Andrew Hoe. Dennis asked him to 373 00:21:45.279 --> 00:21:48.519 come back to one ninety five Melrose with him, and 374 00:21:48.519 --> 00:21:52.359 Andrew agreed. Andrew was a bit kinky and wanted to 375 00:21:52.440 --> 00:21:56.319 attempt some bondage role playing, but of course, Dennis took 376 00:21:56.359 --> 00:21:59.279 it too far and tied his necktie a little too 377 00:21:59.319 --> 00:22:02.880 tightly while telling Andrew that he wanted to play a 378 00:22:02.880 --> 00:22:06.480 more dangerous game. Now, this freaked Andrew out and he 379 00:22:07.000 --> 00:22:09.359 got the fuck out of there and he went to 380 00:22:09.400 --> 00:22:13.160 the police about this, but they didn't do anything about it. 381 00:22:13.440 --> 00:22:15.559 Oh, just like Jeffrey Dahmer's victims. 382 00:22:15.680 --> 00:22:19.720 Oh my gosh right after and it's like a precursor 383 00:22:19.920 --> 00:22:27.240 of yeah in Wisconsin. This is London. After Dennis's first murder, 384 00:22:27.400 --> 00:22:30.079 he realized what it felt like to unleash his impulse 385 00:22:30.480 --> 00:22:33.759 that he had pushed down for years. And years later, 386 00:22:33.799 --> 00:22:39.920 he wrote, quote, under the triggering influence of spirits meaning alcohol, 387 00:22:40.599 --> 00:22:45.440 usually dormant mental forces have been released which have made 388 00:22:45.519 --> 00:22:50.279 mind the actions of a destructive psychopath. End quote. This 389 00:22:50.319 --> 00:22:52.279 would be true. Yeah, blame it on the alcohol. 390 00:22:52.440 --> 00:22:53.759 Yeah, blame it on the alcohol. 391 00:22:53.920 --> 00:22:57.079 Sure, this would be true for many of his future 392 00:22:57.160 --> 00:23:00.319 murders as well. His next murder would take place in 393 00:23:00.359 --> 00:23:04.319 December of nineteen seventy nine, and this was a year 394 00:23:04.400 --> 00:23:08.000 after he had killed Stephen. Dennis met another young man 395 00:23:08.119 --> 00:23:12.559 named Kenneth Aginden. Kenneth was a really good looking young 396 00:23:12.640 --> 00:23:15.480 dude who had the face and body that you would 397 00:23:15.480 --> 00:23:18.119 normally see on TV or in a concert, you know, 398 00:23:18.279 --> 00:23:23.359 just nice. Kenneth had it going on. Kenneth was Canadian born, 399 00:23:23.519 --> 00:23:26.200 but he found himself in London on this fateful night. 400 00:23:26.640 --> 00:23:30.200 He took a risk, leaving his homeland to visit England, and, 401 00:23:30.279 --> 00:23:33.359