WEBVTT 1 00:00:01.080 --> 00:00:02.960 How'd you like to listen to dot net rocks with 2 00:00:03.080 --> 00:00:07.879 no ads? Easy? Become a patron for just five dollars 3 00:00:07.919 --> 00:00:10.800 a month. You get access to a private RSS feed 4 00:00:10.839 --> 00:00:14.279 where all the shows have no ads. Twenty dollars a month, 5 00:00:14.279 --> 00:00:16.879 we'll get you that and a special dot net Rocks 6 00:00:16.960 --> 00:00:21.000 patron mug. Sign up now at Patreon dot dot NetRocks 7 00:00:21.120 --> 00:00:36.439 dot com. Hey, and welcome back to dot net Rocks. 8 00:00:36.479 --> 00:00:39.320 I'm Carl Franklin and I'm Richard Campbell. You know, Richard, 9 00:00:39.359 --> 00:00:42.439 we've been doing this show for so long that we're 10 00:00:42.520 --> 00:00:47.280 up almost up to episode two thousand. Yeah, and there's 11 00:00:47.320 --> 00:00:51.280 something that's pretty special is going to happen on episode 12 00:00:51.520 --> 00:00:52.560 two thousand. 13 00:00:52.840 --> 00:00:54.520 I think we sort of sorted this out now because 14 00:00:54.520 --> 00:00:56.159 as soon as I thought about episode two thousand, I 15 00:00:56.159 --> 00:00:58.359 thought I got to talk about Y two K. Yeah, 16 00:00:58.399 --> 00:01:01.119 and then I realized all of the work for Y 17 00:01:01.159 --> 00:01:04.760 two K happened in nineteen ninety nine, so we should 18 00:01:04.840 --> 00:01:07.439 really do show nineteen ninety nine about Y two K. 19 00:01:07.640 --> 00:01:11.799 So yeah, putting that together. But two thousand, two thousand 20 00:01:11.879 --> 00:01:12.439 is a party. 21 00:01:12.560 --> 00:01:15.319 Two thousand is literally a party. We're going to record 22 00:01:15.359 --> 00:01:18.920 it live at the party with Palermo in Seattle. Yeah, 23 00:01:19.400 --> 00:01:21.920 at Bellevue at the MVP summit. 24 00:01:22.040 --> 00:01:23.560 Yeah, Jeryl, are you going to be there? 25 00:01:23.719 --> 00:01:29.000 I'm not I'm undecided. I want to be there, but 26 00:01:29.599 --> 00:01:31.840 I have not been at an MVP summit as a 27 00:01:32.200 --> 00:01:36.879 Microsoft fe so as an employee, which I've been there 28 00:01:36.879 --> 00:01:38.920 a couple of times as an MVP, So I would 29 00:01:38.920 --> 00:01:40.799 love to be there from the other side, from at 30 00:01:40.879 --> 00:01:43.519 least ones in my Microsoft review. But so far it 31 00:01:43.519 --> 00:01:45.519 hasn't happened yet. But who knows. Maybe this is the year. 32 00:01:45.959 --> 00:01:47.799 This sounds like a great reason sound Yeah, I hope. 33 00:01:47.799 --> 00:01:49.920 So it would be good to have you there, because 34 00:01:49.959 --> 00:01:52.920 what we're going to do is we're asking people right 35 00:01:52.959 --> 00:01:55.439 now to go to dot net rocks dot com and 36 00:01:55.480 --> 00:01:58.920 at the top menu, there's this vox pop section now 37 00:01:59.519 --> 00:02:02.000 in a spot page, and we want you to use 38 00:02:02.040 --> 00:02:04.680 that page to leave us a voice message. And we're 39 00:02:04.680 --> 00:02:07.560 going to gather up these short messages for the two 40 00:02:07.599 --> 00:02:12.319 thousandth episode, things like how long have you been listening 41 00:02:12.319 --> 00:02:16.240 to dot net rocks And by the way, we're gonna 42 00:02:16.240 --> 00:02:18.520 do nineteen ninety nine on Y two K. So if 43 00:02:18.560 --> 00:02:20.319 you worked on the Y two K problem in the 44 00:02:20.400 --> 00:02:24.960 late nineties, describe your experience, and you know, things like 45 00:02:25.039 --> 00:02:27.680 how has dot net rocks affected your career or anything 46 00:02:27.680 --> 00:02:30.319 that you want to say to us, we'd be happy 47 00:02:30.360 --> 00:02:32.960 to do that. So remember, go to the voxpop page 48 00:02:33.000 --> 00:02:38.039 at dot NetRocks dot com and leave a message. Okay, yeah, 49 00:02:38.080 --> 00:02:38.479 I'm sorry. 50 00:02:38.520 --> 00:02:40.599 I was around fourteen, so I didn't really work on 51 00:02:40.639 --> 00:02:43.719 the Y two K thing. I'm sorry. I do remember. 52 00:02:43.960 --> 00:02:48.400 I do remember. I do remember being at the computer 53 00:02:48.439 --> 00:02:50.719 because I was a nerd. Of course, aren't we all 54 00:02:50.800 --> 00:02:53.120 like we grow up nerves right like we started early off. 55 00:02:53.319 --> 00:02:55.879 I remember on the night being behind my. 56 00:02:55.879 --> 00:02:59.479 PC and be like three two one, Nothing happened. 57 00:02:59.240 --> 00:03:01.800 Nothing happened, The clock just went over, nothing happened, and 58 00:03:01.919 --> 00:03:02.319 that was it. 59 00:03:02.800 --> 00:03:04.960 Well, we're going to find out why nothing happened when 60 00:03:05.000 --> 00:03:05.280 we hear. 61 00:03:05.560 --> 00:03:10.240 When we do that, it's only because a whole bunch 62 00:03:10.240 --> 00:03:12.240 of people worked really, really hard and pulled it off. 63 00:03:12.759 --> 00:03:15.240 Yeah all right, Well let's roll the crazy music for 64 00:03:15.280 --> 00:03:16.120 better no framework. 65 00:03:16.199 --> 00:03:16.520 Awesome? 66 00:03:25.159 --> 00:03:28.000 Well, I have a new open source tool by guess who, 67 00:03:28.240 --> 00:03:31.080 Simon Krop How did you guess? 68 00:03:31.240 --> 00:03:34.759 You know? Thattman needs a hobby? Oh wait, I think 69 00:03:34.759 --> 00:03:35.360 he has one. 70 00:03:36.759 --> 00:03:39.000 He needs to spend more time with his family, it's 71 00:03:39.039 --> 00:03:39.639 what he needs. 72 00:03:41.639 --> 00:03:42.280 What do we got? 73 00:03:42.759 --> 00:03:46.159 This is called entity framework dot order by Okay, So 74 00:03:46.400 --> 00:03:51.439 basically it does default ordering for all entity framework queries 75 00:03:51.439 --> 00:03:55.960 based on fluent configuration, so you get automatic ordering. You 76 00:03:56.000 --> 00:03:59.680 don't have to do an explicit order by. It has 77 00:04:00.199 --> 00:04:06.080 support for include some nested collections are automatically ordered. You 78 00:04:06.120 --> 00:04:11.919 have multi column ordering, automatic indexes, and validation mode. Basically, 79 00:04:11.960 --> 00:04:15.560 you enable the interceptor and you can figure it with 80 00:04:15.680 --> 00:04:19.360 the with the default order buys right, and then you 81 00:04:19.639 --> 00:04:25.839 query without explicitly saying order by. You just you know, contacts, 82 00:04:25.920 --> 00:04:31.639 dot employees, dot two list, dasync or whatever. And Bob's 83 00:04:31.639 --> 00:04:36.600 your uncle, so he's basically just taking more, uh, taking 84 00:04:36.639 --> 00:04:38.519 more work away from you. You don't have to do this, 85 00:04:38.639 --> 00:04:40.759 and and let's face it, I mean order by is 86 00:04:40.800 --> 00:04:43.759 something that we always do. Yeah, why would you want 87 00:04:44.040 --> 00:04:46.399 just overhead? Why would you want a collection of things 88 00:04:46.439 --> 00:04:47.639 just randomly sorted? 89 00:04:47.959 --> 00:04:51.079 Yeah? Yeah, good, that's a good one. Thanks Sank Simon. 90 00:04:51.120 --> 00:04:51.720 Appreciate it. 91 00:04:51.839 --> 00:04:53.279 Yeah, thank you Simon. It's amazing. 92 00:04:54.800 --> 00:04:55.480 Talk with your family. 93 00:04:55.720 --> 00:05:03.839 Yeah, that's right. Please dude, Well, Richard, who's talking to 94 00:05:03.920 --> 00:05:04.399 us today? 95 00:05:04.560 --> 00:05:07.480 Hey? I grabbed a comment off of show nineteen eighty four, 96 00:05:07.560 --> 00:05:09.560 which is what we did with Sam and Jerome talking 97 00:05:09.600 --> 00:05:11.680 about Uno and dot net tennel. Well, we talked about 98 00:05:11.720 --> 00:05:14.240 Maui on that show as well. Yeah, of course, nothing 99 00:05:14.279 --> 00:05:16.879 but do but the only the comment we've I went 100 00:05:16.879 --> 00:05:19.279 through a bunch of Maui comments, including the ones on 101 00:05:19.360 --> 00:05:22.360 Gerald show. It's and you know, we've had a bunch, 102 00:05:22.399 --> 00:05:26.439 but we've also read them all. This comments is not 103 00:05:26.600 --> 00:05:28.959 actually about Maui, but it is relevant to the section 104 00:05:29.000 --> 00:05:30.839 of the show because this comments from John, who says 105 00:05:31.439 --> 00:05:36.360 plus one for incorporating the guests into the intro section. Yep, yeah, yeah, 106 00:05:36.399 --> 00:05:40.120 we're listening. We're doing it. So thanks for the feedback. 107 00:05:40.240 --> 00:05:42.839 I'm a guinea pig, I'm a social experiment, so I 108 00:05:42.839 --> 00:05:45.560 hope ye this opens the door for other guests. It's fine, 109 00:05:45.639 --> 00:05:46.199 it's fine. 110 00:05:46.519 --> 00:05:49.000 Well, the thing is, we've done it on occasion, but yeah, 111 00:05:49.040 --> 00:05:51.000 only you know, kind of when it's relevant to what 112 00:05:51.000 --> 00:05:53.360 we're talking about. But I think it's good. I think 113 00:05:53.399 --> 00:05:55.360 it's great too, and we're going to do that about then. 114 00:05:56.519 --> 00:05:58.079 So John, thank you so much for your comment. A 115 00:05:58.120 --> 00:05:59.560 copy of music CODEY is on its way to you, 116 00:05:59.600 --> 00:06:01.079 and if you'd like, I can copy of music O buy. 117 00:06:01.079 --> 00:06:03.000 I write a comment on the website at dot NetRocks 118 00:06:03.040 --> 00:06:05.360 dot com or on the facebooks to publish every show there. 119 00:06:05.360 --> 00:06:06.920 And if you comment there and I read on the show, 120 00:06:07.120 --> 00:06:08.439 we'll send you copy of music O Bay. 121 00:06:08.480 --> 00:06:10.600 And what Richard's talking about is music to Code Buy. 122 00:06:10.759 --> 00:06:14.680 This is a collection of twenty five minute musical pieces 123 00:06:14.720 --> 00:06:20.240 that I wrote specifically for instrumentals and for focus, and 124 00:06:20.319 --> 00:06:23.759 people have been using it successfully to help them stay 125 00:06:23.800 --> 00:06:27.040 in a state of flow while they're coding. We have 126 00:06:27.079 --> 00:06:29.800 twenty two tracks now and you can get the whole 127 00:06:29.879 --> 00:06:32.959 collection at music too Coode by dot net in MP 128 00:06:33.079 --> 00:06:35.759 three wave or flak formats. 129 00:06:36.000 --> 00:06:36.399 Very nice. 130 00:06:36.439 --> 00:06:41.120 All right, Since this is episode nineteen eighty six, we 131 00:06:42.240 --> 00:06:44.800 want to talk about this kind of sad year. 132 00:06:45.079 --> 00:06:46.759 It was a tough year, two ways about it. 133 00:06:46.839 --> 00:06:51.399 This was the year of explosions Chernobyl nuclear disaster. On 134 00:06:51.439 --> 00:07:00.319 April twenty six, a Chernobyl reactor exploded. Significant radioactivity material 135 00:07:00.600 --> 00:07:04.040 got spread across Europe, and it resulted from a flawed 136 00:07:04.040 --> 00:07:08.560 reactor design and operator errors leading to media in long 137 00:07:08.680 --> 00:07:09.600 term health impacts. 138 00:07:10.040 --> 00:07:16.439 The RBMK reactor design it needs careful control and they 139 00:07:16.439 --> 00:07:19.759 were racing to do a test to qualify this reactor 140 00:07:19.839 --> 00:07:23.560 for the power. Demands of the Soviet unit time were 141 00:07:23.600 --> 00:07:25.759 so high that they couldn't do it during the day 142 00:07:25.839 --> 00:07:28.720 because they needed the power. And so instead of taking 143 00:07:28.759 --> 00:07:30.800 the A team who was supposed to do the test, 144 00:07:30.839 --> 00:07:34.279 it was run at night with the C team, and 145 00:07:34.319 --> 00:07:37.120 they didn't set up the conditions properly. Like the series 146 00:07:37.160 --> 00:07:40.959 of mistakes is so dramatic, combined with the issues of 147 00:07:41.000 --> 00:07:45.240 the RBMK to actually create a steam explosion so violent 148 00:07:45.439 --> 00:07:49.240 that the fifty ton core of the reactor was blown 149 00:07:49.240 --> 00:07:54.680 across the countryside. Yeah, it's really very remarkably bad. 150 00:07:55.360 --> 00:07:59.759 Hands across America happened on May twenty fifth, millions participated 151 00:07:59.759 --> 00:08:02.759 in a fundraising event aimed at raising awareness for hunger 152 00:08:02.759 --> 00:08:06.399 and homelessness by forming a human chain across the United States. 153 00:08:06.560 --> 00:08:10.120 In sports Super Bowl twenty on January twenty sixth, Chicago 154 00:08:10.160 --> 00:08:13.360 Bears beat the New England Patriots forty six to ten. 155 00:08:14.199 --> 00:08:18.759 That was a whoopin'. The NBA Dunk Contest happened on 156 00:08:18.839 --> 00:08:24.439 February eight Spud Web at five seven when the NBA 157 00:08:24.600 --> 00:08:30.120 Slam Dunk Contest, showcasing his incredible athleticism. You know, it's 158 00:08:30.160 --> 00:08:34.080 not very often that a five foot seven basketball player 159 00:08:34.840 --> 00:08:38.320 can do any slam dunks at all, let alone. You know, 160 00:08:38.360 --> 00:08:41.600 when a slam dunk contest, usually it's the six seven 161 00:08:41.639 --> 00:08:44.240 foot people that could just drop it in the net. 162 00:08:45.320 --> 00:08:50.559 So that was pretty good. The rest I'm gonna leave 163 00:08:50.600 --> 00:08:54.039 to you, except for movies, go ahead. 164 00:08:53.840 --> 00:08:57.480 Okay, I know I just was going that I was 165 00:08:57.559 --> 00:09:00.759 totally prepared for, like your research, which is so good. 166 00:09:01.000 --> 00:09:02.799 Nineteen eighty six is a year I was born. So 167 00:09:02.919 --> 00:09:07.759 September tenth on a Wednesday. I still remember very vividly. 168 00:09:08.480 --> 00:09:13.480 No I don't. But I was like, you're leading into 169 00:09:13.679 --> 00:09:16.799 leading up to introducing me here, but absolutely not. So 170 00:09:16.879 --> 00:09:17.759 this lines up perfectly. 171 00:09:17.799 --> 00:09:19.679 This is good. Well, you know, we didn't say it 172 00:09:19.720 --> 00:09:20.879 was the year of explosions. 173 00:09:21.559 --> 00:09:26.120 There you go. I don't know how vigorous that birth was. 174 00:09:26.399 --> 00:09:34.080 Well, so the nuclear thing, of course that I remember 175 00:09:34.120 --> 00:09:36.080 my mother telling me. Of course she was pregnant with 176 00:09:36.120 --> 00:09:38.960 me at the time, so she was like they were worried, right, 177 00:09:38.960 --> 00:09:41.120 Like they had measures like in the Netherlands of like 178 00:09:41.279 --> 00:09:43.279 stuff floating in the air, so they were like worried 179 00:09:43.279 --> 00:09:46.480 of like what's that going to do and what effects 180 00:09:46.519 --> 00:09:49.360 is that going to have? So yeah, just a little 181 00:09:49.399 --> 00:09:50.240 side tengine here. 182 00:09:50.960 --> 00:09:52.159 Well that explains a lot. 183 00:09:52.320 --> 00:09:54.440 But yeah, well there you go. 184 00:09:54.759 --> 00:09:56.639 All right. Before I hand it over to Richard, I 185 00:09:56.639 --> 00:09:59.480 want to go down the top ten movies of nineteen 186 00:09:59.519 --> 00:10:04.799 eighty six. Top Gun by far outgrossed the second most 187 00:10:04.840 --> 00:10:10.960 popular movie by about sixty million dollars. Crocodile Dundee, No boy, 188 00:10:11.320 --> 00:10:17.080 that's a knife. That's the best scene in the world. 189 00:10:17.480 --> 00:10:21.519 The Karate Kid Part two Back to School one of 190 00:10:21.519 --> 00:10:26.559 my favorites. Great performance by Sam Kinnison and History Class 191 00:10:26.919 --> 00:10:31.720 Aliens follow up to Alien. I don't know, just came 192 00:10:31.759 --> 00:10:36.039 to them. I guess The Color Purple. Very very good movie. 193 00:10:36.399 --> 00:10:39.440 Historic Star Trek four, The Voyage Home one of my 194 00:10:39.559 --> 00:10:44.120 favorite Star Trek movies of all time. Ferris Bueller's Day Off, 195 00:10:44.120 --> 00:10:50.080 of course excellent. Ruthless People. Do you know that that 196 00:10:50.200 --> 00:10:55.159 was a Walt Disney Studios movie. Ruthless People, No kidding? Yeah? 197 00:10:55.200 --> 00:10:56.279 And Out of Africa. 198 00:10:56.879 --> 00:10:57.519 That's grateful. 199 00:10:57.639 --> 00:11:03.639 My mother couldn't stop talking about meryls. Street. Some other 200 00:11:03.679 --> 00:11:07.919 notable films, Platoons, stand by Me, Color of Money. There 201 00:11:07.960 --> 00:11:09.799 was a lot of good movies, but those are the tops. 202 00:11:09.960 --> 00:11:13.120 Stun It another stunning ear. I mean ye. Movie wise, 203 00:11:13.279 --> 00:11:13.960 what can I say? 204 00:11:14.039 --> 00:11:14.679 It was a good year. 205 00:11:15.440 --> 00:11:19.159 Thanks JERRYL. All right, Richard, talk to us about space 206 00:11:19.759 --> 00:11:20.600 and tech. 207 00:11:20.960 --> 00:11:24.399 So there were two space shuttle launches in nineteen eighty six. 208 00:11:24.480 --> 00:11:26.159 The first was a January eighteenth, and it was the 209 00:11:26.200 --> 00:11:29.440 Columbia who did a normal mission STS sixty one sat 210 00:11:29.840 --> 00:11:33.279 C deploying some satellites doing experimentation. But of course the 211 00:11:33.320 --> 00:11:35.720 only one we remember is on January twenty eighth STS 212 00:11:35.759 --> 00:11:39.399 fifty one L when Challenger, after the seventy three seconds 213 00:11:39.399 --> 00:11:44.120 of flight, disintegrated, killing all seven astronauts on board. It 214 00:11:44.159 --> 00:11:48.799 was only Challenger's tenth flight, it was the most active shuttle. 215 00:11:48.840 --> 00:11:51.279 There was a number of reasons for the incident, the 216 00:11:51.320 --> 00:11:53.840 main one being the O ring system on the solid 217 00:11:53.879 --> 00:11:57.639 rocker boosters. Yeah, a shuttle won't fly again for another 218 00:11:57.679 --> 00:12:01.559 thirty two months. The out of they'll build an additional 219 00:12:02.000 --> 00:12:04.879 shuttle out of the spare parts to create a shuttle 220 00:12:04.919 --> 00:12:09.120 called Endeavor. It's also when the Air Force largely exits 221 00:12:09.159 --> 00:12:12.879 the program and Van der Berg will never get used, 222 00:12:13.440 --> 00:12:18.399 and the testing and evaluation of shuttles to make them 223 00:12:18.440 --> 00:12:21.679 safe for flight will get so long that they'll never 224 00:12:21.679 --> 00:12:24.039 apply more than five missions or six missions a year. 225 00:12:24.200 --> 00:12:26.679 That was one of those moments where you remember exactly 226 00:12:26.720 --> 00:12:29.120 where you were when you heard it. Yeah, I was 227 00:12:29.200 --> 00:12:33.440 driving my father's Toyota Ursell to college in the morning 228 00:12:33.720 --> 00:12:35.480 and I heard it on the radio and I just 229 00:12:35.480 --> 00:12:38.120 couldn't believe it. And then of course all the TV 230 00:12:38.279 --> 00:12:41.639 coverage and the family is just a horrible sure no. 231 00:12:41.799 --> 00:12:44.240 And it was the teacher in space, Krista McAuliffe, right, like, 232 00:12:44.320 --> 00:12:49.240 this was the civilian capable vehicle, and it just wasn't true. 233 00:12:49.240 --> 00:12:52.679 Flight in space is dangerous now, of course, it's an 234 00:12:52.679 --> 00:12:55.120 overwhelming story in space. But this is also the year 235 00:12:55.159 --> 00:12:58.559 that the mir space station is launched the initial module 236 00:12:58.600 --> 00:13:01.440 called the functional Cargo Block. It'll eventually be assembled to 237 00:13:01.559 --> 00:13:05.039 a much larger spacecraft that the Shuttle will visit. This 238 00:13:05.159 --> 00:13:08.759 is the year that Voyager two flies by Uranus. And 239 00:13:09.000 --> 00:13:11.639 this is also the year that Haley's comment is approaching 240 00:13:12.679 --> 00:13:16.799 the Sun, and so a fleet of spacecrafts, five of 241 00:13:16.840 --> 00:13:20.519 them in eighty six, Vega one to two, SUSA, SECA, Gata, 242 00:13:20.679 --> 00:13:25.200 and Giato all do flybys of Haley to get a 243 00:13:25.240 --> 00:13:27.080 good look and teach us more about comments. 244 00:13:27.279 --> 00:13:31.960 I remember seeing those pictures in National geographic magazine Amazing. 245 00:13:32.080 --> 00:13:34.600 On the computer side of things, is the year of 246 00:13:34.639 --> 00:13:39.360 the Compact Desk Pro three eighty six, first you know 247 00:13:39.519 --> 00:13:41.799 all thirty two bit machines. Also the year that ib 248 00:13:41.879 --> 00:13:44.919 ever releases the AT one oh one keyboard, which we 249 00:13:45.039 --> 00:13:48.879 all basically still use. I think it's everybody's derived from 250 00:13:48.919 --> 00:13:54.159 that keyboard more or less. The Scuzzy one standard is set. Also, 251 00:13:54.200 --> 00:13:57.200 the i E t F the Internet Engineering Task Force 252 00:13:57.360 --> 00:13:59.879 is formed, so they're getting series about you know what 253 00:14:00.080 --> 00:14:02.279 with a public internet looked like, although we're still years 254 00:14:02.279 --> 00:14:02.799 away from that. 255 00:14:02.960 --> 00:14:05.519 It's also the first Maybe that's why Scuzzy had so 256 00:14:05.600 --> 00:14:06.440 many versions. 257 00:14:06.440 --> 00:14:09.840 Oh yeah, everybody wants to do their own thing. This 258 00:14:09.919 --> 00:14:13.519 is the first time the term vaporware is written down. 259 00:14:15.559 --> 00:14:19.960 A writer in Time magazine, Philip Elmer DeWitt, talks about 260 00:14:20.000 --> 00:14:24.639 products that never are announced but never actually ships. And 261 00:14:24.679 --> 00:14:27.440 here's a computer you've never ever heard of, the Connection 262 00:14:27.600 --> 00:14:32.720 Machine CM one. So this was a computer designed to 263 00:14:32.799 --> 00:14:36.000 do neural network It was an artificial intelligence computer. It 264 00:14:36.080 --> 00:14:41.279 had sixty five and thirty six one bit processor wow, 265 00:14:41.480 --> 00:14:44.559 built in an array to do high scale or compute. 266 00:14:45.399 --> 00:14:47.600 They only made a couple of them. It didn't work. 267 00:14:47.639 --> 00:14:49.519 All that well, and it was very, very expensive, so 268 00:14:49.519 --> 00:14:52.639 so much for that, but just you know, it was 269 00:14:52.759 --> 00:14:55.480 the first time that we were we had waves of 270 00:14:55.559 --> 00:14:59.840 AI technology and we're going through that again. This also 271 00:14:59.879 --> 00:15:01.799 the year that Microsoft is listed on the New York 272 00:15:01.799 --> 00:15:05.639 Stock Exchange and Bill Gates becomes a billionaire. And to 273 00:15:05.720 --> 00:15:08.120 go along with that, they ship MS DOOFS three point 274 00:15:08.159 --> 00:15:11.639 two and the first ms dos virus is found in 275 00:15:11.639 --> 00:15:14.799 the wild. It's called Brain and it propagates floppy to floppy. 276 00:15:15.000 --> 00:15:15.399 Wow. 277 00:15:16.320 --> 00:15:22.360 And finally, this is the year that development on Postcress starts. 278 00:15:22.840 --> 00:15:26.200 Postcrists sequel group of ex Oracle guys want to make 279 00:15:26.240 --> 00:15:28.679 their own open source database and they go about it 280 00:15:28.720 --> 00:15:33.879 that way and the Erlang and Oberon languages specifications are released. 281 00:15:34.200 --> 00:15:37.159 Awesome. Yeah, that's what I got, all right, So it's 282 00:15:37.200 --> 00:15:41.879 time to bring back on the show our guest Gerald Varslos. 283 00:15:42.480 --> 00:15:45.200 He's a software engineer at Microsoft, where he works on 284 00:15:45.240 --> 00:15:48.399 the dot Net team. With well over a decade of experience, 285 00:15:48.440 --> 00:15:53.039 he's built software solutions across industries, specializing in mobile and 286 00:15:53.039 --> 00:15:58.559 cross platform development with dot Net, Maui, Slash, Zamarin, asp Net, Azure, 287 00:15:59.000 --> 00:16:04.279 Get and these days of course AI, which we'll probably 288 00:16:04.399 --> 00:16:08.399 creep into this show somewhere because it always does. 289 00:16:09.440 --> 00:16:11.600 Yeah. I was gonna say, like, I hope we can 290 00:16:11.639 --> 00:16:14.279 make it without AI, but then you know, Maui is 291 00:16:14.360 --> 00:16:17.080 fifty percent AI, always has been. So there you have. 292 00:16:19.840 --> 00:16:24.519 It's only four letters, two of them are there. You go. 293 00:16:24.799 --> 00:16:26.320 It's a good one. 294 00:16:27.080 --> 00:16:27.320 Yeah. 295 00:16:27.519 --> 00:16:29.799 So what is new in the world of Maui? My friend? 296 00:16:30.320 --> 00:16:32.240 What is new in the world of Maui? What isn't? 297 00:16:32.320 --> 00:16:37.039 What isn't? Yeah? Of course, like you know, we're recording 298 00:16:37.039 --> 00:16:38.879 this in the new year. This is going to be 299 00:16:38.879 --> 00:16:41.200 released in a new year. But in November of last year, 300 00:16:41.240 --> 00:16:43.799 of course, we had dot at ten, right, so that's 301 00:16:43.840 --> 00:16:46.120 of course our big point as well. We're part of 302 00:16:46.559 --> 00:16:50.159 the dot net ecosystem, the dot net product, so dont 303 00:16:50.200 --> 00:16:53.559 Maui also had a big release with dot at ten 304 00:16:53.639 --> 00:16:55.919 as well, and you know, we're all about kind of 305 00:16:55.960 --> 00:16:59.639 like quality performance, just like I guess the overall dot 306 00:16:59.639 --> 00:17:02.759 net product. But that's really been our focus as well, 307 00:17:02.759 --> 00:17:06.279 because it's been no secret that you know, we had 308 00:17:06.279 --> 00:17:08.200 a bit of a rocky start around don at five 309 00:17:08.279 --> 00:17:12.119 done at six, Yeah, but you know, things have gotten better. 310 00:17:12.200 --> 00:17:14.920 We're talking to customers all the time and they've been 311 00:17:14.960 --> 00:17:17.680 saying to us, like you're on the right path. We 312 00:17:18.079 --> 00:17:20.279 feel as of kind of like done at seven, done 313 00:17:20.279 --> 00:17:23.039 at a time frame. We feel confident that we can 314 00:17:23.119 --> 00:17:26.480 migrate our apps now to this version of don at Maui, 315 00:17:26.599 --> 00:17:29.640 and lots and lots of people have not just migrations 316 00:17:29.680 --> 00:17:32.240 but also new apps, and now I think we've done. 317 00:17:32.240 --> 00:17:35.400 At ten. We for the first time in a long 318 00:17:35.440 --> 00:17:37.759 time since the transition from examine forms. If you know 319 00:17:37.759 --> 00:17:41.000 a little bit about all the history here, we had 320 00:17:41.000 --> 00:17:44.880 some room to not just focus on quality like super important. 321 00:17:44.920 --> 00:17:47.279 No one is this debating that, right, but us as 322 00:17:47.319 --> 00:17:51.319 developers on it. I imagine that most of your listeners 323 00:17:51.319 --> 00:17:54.599 are developers, right, You like to also do some new stuff, right, 324 00:17:54.640 --> 00:17:56.680 not just bock fixing. We did it because we had to, 325 00:17:56.799 --> 00:17:59.359 because it's important, but for the first time in a 326 00:17:59.400 --> 00:18:01.440 long time, we now also had a little bit of 327 00:18:01.480 --> 00:18:04.240 room to add some new stuff, make some major improvements 328 00:18:04.240 --> 00:18:07.279 that some people have been waiting for for a long time. 329 00:18:07.319 --> 00:18:09.160 So that was really fun for us as well. 330 00:18:09.240 --> 00:18:12.640 Now I'm the historian around here, and so I'm gonna 331 00:18:12.839 --> 00:18:16.720 you weren't with Microsoft when this all went down, but 332 00:18:16.839 --> 00:18:18.799 I do know the story of what happened in two 333 00:18:18.799 --> 00:18:22.240 thousand and six because or with dot net six in 334 00:18:22.240 --> 00:18:24.279 the original version, because you guys they were the team 335 00:18:24.319 --> 00:18:27.200 was put in a possible situation. Dot Net six was 336 00:18:27.240 --> 00:18:30.279 a very important version of dot net. It was, you know, 337 00:18:30.400 --> 00:18:33.559 big shifts happening there. That's the pull off of the 338 00:18:34.039 --> 00:18:38.759 of the the ux APIs like really are restructuring. It's 339 00:18:38.759 --> 00:18:42.160 also vs. Twenty two, which is the only thing that 340 00:18:42.200 --> 00:18:44.920 we'll work on dot Net six and you guys are 341 00:18:44.920 --> 00:18:47.279 trying to make an API between a moving version of 342 00:18:47.319 --> 00:18:49.880 the framework and a moving version of the studio and 343 00:18:49.960 --> 00:18:53.480 there are no alternative tools, like there is no way 344 00:18:53.920 --> 00:18:56.000 you could have made that product at that time. 345 00:18:56.119 --> 00:18:59.000 That's yes, we were I think the kind of like 346 00:18:59.039 --> 00:19:01.559 the term in English is like we were we were 347 00:19:01.559 --> 00:19:04.000 building the bus while we were driving something along those lines. 348 00:19:04.640 --> 00:19:06.920 That's that's exactly what we were doing. Like and the 349 00:19:06.960 --> 00:19:09.920 other thing that you didn't even mention that people generally 350 00:19:10.039 --> 00:19:12.240 didn't receive very well because it was full of in 351 00:19:12.279 --> 00:19:15.799 development is the whole workloads the distribution of how dot 352 00:19:15.799 --> 00:19:19.880 at Bowie was distributed. That was a concept, but you know, 353 00:19:20.039 --> 00:19:23.039 there was still a lot to be built there. So yeah, 354 00:19:23.240 --> 00:19:25.759 we didn't really have an ide. We didn't really have 355 00:19:25.839 --> 00:19:29.240 a way to distribute. We didn't there was nothing for 356 00:19:29.319 --> 00:19:31.119 us to work with. I don't know how we did 357 00:19:31.119 --> 00:19:34.559 it back then. So yeah, it was it was crazy times. 358 00:19:34.640 --> 00:19:37.839 I I that's why David Norton now looks like that, 359 00:19:37.920 --> 00:19:41.359 like he's permanently but. 360 00:19:41.359 --> 00:19:44.519 He looks great. He looks great. I can tell he's recovering. 361 00:19:45.440 --> 00:19:47.160 I had a lot of drinks with him back in 362 00:19:47.200 --> 00:19:49.599 the day and we just talked about that pain, and 363 00:19:49.640 --> 00:19:52.759 I'm like, what a situation to be in. And it 364 00:19:52.880 --> 00:19:57.240 was predictable, like they they could have known. Yeah, it's 365 00:19:57.279 --> 00:19:59.200 pretty obvious this is the situation you could be in. 366 00:19:59.519 --> 00:20:03.799 But within the within six months you kind of got 367 00:20:03.839 --> 00:20:07.240 to the release you meant to do. Yeah, but I'm 368 00:20:07.279 --> 00:20:10.000 with you. You've caught up since then, Yeah. 369 00:20:09.880 --> 00:20:13.920 Exactly exactly. Like you know, people have been investing in 370 00:20:13.960 --> 00:20:18.119 Examine because Examine has been around for like I don't know, 371 00:20:18.480 --> 00:20:21.039 a decade, right, all things counted and even before Nail 372 00:20:21.400 --> 00:20:24.279 kind of like yeah, so there's a lot of history 373 00:20:24.359 --> 00:20:29.599 there and everything worked also there. Just it's the nature 374 00:20:29.720 --> 00:20:32.960 of this framework, right, Like people will be like, oh, 375 00:20:33.039 --> 00:20:35.480 I'm so frustrated things break left and right, like, yeah, 376 00:20:35.720 --> 00:20:39.480 we're building tools on top of xcode, Android tooling that 377 00:20:39.680 --> 00:20:43.240 is constantly moving. We're not enemies, but we're also not 378 00:20:43.279 --> 00:20:45.720 necessarily friends, right, Like, they don't give us a heads 379 00:20:45.759 --> 00:20:47.000 up of like, hey, this is going to be a 380 00:20:47.000 --> 00:20:50.599 breaking change, especially Apple in point releases, they'll just break 381 00:20:50.640 --> 00:20:53.319 the hell out of us and it's going to be like, Okay, 382 00:20:53.319 --> 00:20:56.039 what happened? Right, So we're building on top of tools 383 00:20:56.039 --> 00:20:59.599 that are not necessarily meant to be combined to be 384 00:20:59.640 --> 00:21:02.000 worked on, and they're not going to stop us, right 385 00:21:02.000 --> 00:21:04.599 because at the end of the day, we're gonna have 386 00:21:04.759 --> 00:21:07.160 them more apps in the app stores and you're going 387 00:21:07.240 --> 00:21:09.640 to get revenue from that. So they're happy whatever the 388 00:21:09.720 --> 00:21:15.039 app is. But you know, it's it's it's a thing that, yeah, 389 00:21:15.119 --> 00:21:18.559 it has a lot of different sides to it, which 390 00:21:18.599 --> 00:21:21.200 makes it interesting. Let's say that way to. 391 00:21:21.200 --> 00:21:23.920 Work with There's one thing that I have been telling people. 392 00:21:24.440 --> 00:21:28.160 I've been teaching the Zamora and zamar inforums MAUI for 393 00:21:28.240 --> 00:21:31.400 a long time, and the thing that people really need 394 00:21:31.440 --> 00:21:34.640 to understand is that if you think of the cross 395 00:21:34.680 --> 00:21:38.359 platform nature of a web browser, right and how it 396 00:21:38.519 --> 00:21:42.599 just works so well on every platform on every browser, like, 397 00:21:42.680 --> 00:21:46.039 there there the differences and the experience between the browsers 398 00:21:46.079 --> 00:21:49.640 is really shrunk. And the reason for that is because 399 00:21:49.839 --> 00:21:54.759 all of these interested parties get together and create standards 400 00:21:54.799 --> 00:21:57.880 and then they implement those standards and all that stuff. 401 00:21:58.319 --> 00:22:03.079