WEBVTT 1 00:00:17.640 --> 00:00:19.920 All right, we are live today at the Road Home. 2 00:00:20.120 --> 00:00:22.359 Come on bye. We are supporting our friends here at 3 00:00:22.359 --> 00:00:22.879 the Road. 4 00:00:22.679 --> 00:00:27.239 Home, as we do every holiday season. We are supporting 5 00:00:28.160 --> 00:00:31.719 those in need. Family homelessness has risen dramatically. Fifty eight 6 00:00:31.719 --> 00:00:33.479 percent of the families who turned to the Road Home 7 00:00:33.600 --> 00:00:36.679 last year, we're experiencing homelessness for the first time. So 8 00:00:36.719 --> 00:00:40.679 we're asking for financial donations. No donation too small. Five dollars, 9 00:00:40.759 --> 00:00:43.359 ten dollars, whatever you have eight oh one, eight one 10 00:00:43.799 --> 00:00:44.679 seventy three hundred. 11 00:00:44.719 --> 00:00:48.200 They're also on Venmo. They're also on PayPal. 12 00:00:48.479 --> 00:00:51.039 You can come by in person at five twenty nine 13 00:00:51.159 --> 00:00:54.240 nine Thabs seventy three hundred south in Midvale, Utah, or 14 00:00:54.280 --> 00:00:58.119 online at the Roadhome dot org slash donate. Got blamed 15 00:00:58.200 --> 00:01:01.240 Fowler stopping by Tony Jones, Chris Camaraddie too. So we've 16 00:01:01.240 --> 00:01:03.079 got a busy show, but we'll do a little NBA 17 00:01:03.880 --> 00:01:07.280 with our guy Howard back on a Friday afternoon. Howard, 18 00:01:07.280 --> 00:01:09.400 Happy Friday, Happy holidays man, how we doing. 19 00:01:10.159 --> 00:01:12.879 Spence seppy holidays to you as well. Appreciate you guys 20 00:01:12.879 --> 00:01:15.719 bringing me into the national lipos Ohio. That might be 21 00:01:15.799 --> 00:01:18.400 my favorite national song. So wow, good good call. 22 00:01:18.719 --> 00:01:20.680 Look at that. Okay, that was just a blind guest 23 00:01:20.719 --> 00:01:21.000 by me. 24 00:01:21.319 --> 00:01:23.120 I figured you'd like the National, but I did not 25 00:01:23.239 --> 00:01:26.239 know that was your your favorite song. So I'm glad 26 00:01:26.239 --> 00:01:28.680 I knocked that one out of the park. All right, Howard, 27 00:01:29.480 --> 00:01:32.000 you know, I know you don't love the conversation about 28 00:01:32.079 --> 00:01:34.239 NBA ratings, let me say that right out of the gates, 29 00:01:34.280 --> 00:01:36.519 and I don't love it either, but you sent me 30 00:01:36.560 --> 00:01:39.359 a piece that also our buddy Andy Larson from the 31 00:01:39.400 --> 00:01:42.920 Tribune sat along as well, So just in fairness to 32 00:01:42.959 --> 00:01:45.239 put a little context on it, I thought the Sports 33 00:01:45.280 --> 00:01:47.480 Media Watch piece did a really good job of kind 34 00:01:47.480 --> 00:01:50.280 of digging underneath the service or surface, I should say, 35 00:01:50.319 --> 00:01:53.760 to explain exactly why ratings are down with not just 36 00:01:53.799 --> 00:01:56.200 pro basketball, but linear ratings down with. 37 00:01:56.239 --> 00:01:57.920 Pretty much all sports. 38 00:01:58.079 --> 00:02:01.000 So I have given my take on this a couple 39 00:02:01.040 --> 00:02:02.680 of different times, so I just wanted to open up 40 00:02:02.680 --> 00:02:05.640 the space because we had this conversation a week ago, 41 00:02:05.680 --> 00:02:08.439 to kind of revisit it and put the proper context 42 00:02:08.439 --> 00:02:10.800 around it. What were your main takeaways from the Sports 43 00:02:10.800 --> 00:02:11.599 Media Watch piece. 44 00:02:12.719 --> 00:02:15.800 Well, I mean primarily one that you listed, which is 45 00:02:15.879 --> 00:02:19.000 that you know, linear broadcast is just down in general, 46 00:02:19.080 --> 00:02:21.800 Now the NFL seems impervious saw these trends, right, So 47 00:02:21.840 --> 00:02:23.800 the NFL is the outlier, you can't compare to them, 48 00:02:24.080 --> 00:02:27.759 but hockey and college basketball, college football, some other sports 49 00:02:27.759 --> 00:02:29.960 that I think Sports Media Watch listed in its piece, 50 00:02:30.479 --> 00:02:32.639 which I encourage everybody to go to go look at 51 00:02:33.159 --> 00:02:37.120 on supports mediawatch dot com. But that's the broader context. 52 00:02:37.159 --> 00:02:39.520 So there's a lot that's down And we've been grappling 53 00:02:39.560 --> 00:02:42.400 with these dynamics for the last five to ten years, 54 00:02:42.439 --> 00:02:45.319 ever since court cutting really became a thing and streaming 55 00:02:45.520 --> 00:02:49.919 came in and people started watching NBA games or anything 56 00:02:49.960 --> 00:02:51.639 for that matter, in so many different ways. And the 57 00:02:51.919 --> 00:02:57.240 media ecosystem is really just, you know, just so many 58 00:02:57.280 --> 00:02:59.840 different factions of it and so many different ways people 59 00:03:00.240 --> 00:03:03.120 get their entertainment. And then there's also people who just 60 00:03:03.199 --> 00:03:07.199 watch maybe a quarter on League Pass or they you know, 61 00:03:07.479 --> 00:03:09.800 just watch highlights. So like the NBA can still be 62 00:03:09.840 --> 00:03:14.199 broadly popular without it showing up in strict old school 63 00:03:14.319 --> 00:03:18.400 Nielsen ratings. And that's not some wash it away or 64 00:03:18.439 --> 00:03:20.960 make excuses or say the NBA doesn't have some issues 65 00:03:21.000 --> 00:03:23.520 to grapple with. It's just to say that there's a 66 00:03:23.560 --> 00:03:25.759 lot more contexts too. This The other thing that I 67 00:03:25.800 --> 00:03:27.919 thought was interesting, that I thought was really important in 68 00:03:28.000 --> 00:03:30.759 terms of analyzing the data is that people keep trotting 69 00:03:30.759 --> 00:03:34.280 out the down and excuse me, down fifty percent from 70 00:03:34.319 --> 00:03:37.520 a similar period in twenty twelve or whenever it was, 71 00:03:37.599 --> 00:03:40.039 or twenty eleven, and it was like literally like the 72 00:03:40.120 --> 00:03:43.879 season where the lockout had pushed the season start back 73 00:03:44.280 --> 00:03:47.240 and so suddenly everybody like the first month of the 74 00:03:47.280 --> 00:03:52.039 season was you know, Christmas going forward, and so it 75 00:03:52.120 --> 00:03:56.039 was just a completely different context. So there's like there's 76 00:03:56.039 --> 00:03:58.039 some context stuff with ratings when people are trying to 77 00:03:58.080 --> 00:04:03.479 make these comparisons that don't work in a vacuum. And 78 00:04:03.520 --> 00:04:05.199 we're just in a different world now in twenty twenty 79 00:04:05.199 --> 00:04:09.400 four than we were in twenty twelve. So anyway, I 80 00:04:09.479 --> 00:04:11.360 do think that the NBA has some things to deal with. 81 00:04:11.840 --> 00:04:14.520 I don't think that it's a crisis. 82 00:04:15.080 --> 00:04:17.319 Yeah, and certainly, I mean, and we can just move 83 00:04:17.360 --> 00:04:19.399 away from it because there's so many things to talk 84 00:04:19.439 --> 00:04:24.160 about with this conversation, but it has been discussed at nauseum. 85 00:04:24.160 --> 00:04:26.800 But one thing I will ask you is do you 86 00:04:26.879 --> 00:04:30.839 feel like the product is suffering? Do you feel like 87 00:04:30.879 --> 00:04:32.600 the game is different? Do you feel like because one 88 00:04:32.639 --> 00:04:34.839 of the things I keep hearing, like the common threads 89 00:04:34.879 --> 00:04:37.360 if I read a piece or listen to a pod 90 00:04:37.480 --> 00:04:39.680 or whatever, is a lot of people do seem to 91 00:04:39.680 --> 00:04:43.920 believe that the game itself is different and quite frankly 92 00:04:44.000 --> 00:04:45.720 worse than it was once upon a time. 93 00:04:45.800 --> 00:04:47.639 Is there anything there in your opinion? 94 00:04:48.399 --> 00:04:51.959 No, I actually don't, and I will defend the game 95 00:04:52.040 --> 00:04:55.319 and the league on this count. The quality of play, 96 00:04:55.720 --> 00:04:59.519 the caliber, the skill level across the league has never 97 00:04:59.560 --> 00:05:02.839 been a high now. If you don't like things stylistically, 98 00:05:02.879 --> 00:05:05.879 with the three point shot being so prevalent, if you 99 00:05:05.920 --> 00:05:10.240 don't like certain aspects of the game today, that's a 100 00:05:10.800 --> 00:05:17.360 taste thing. But for every person who doesn't like the 101 00:05:17.399 --> 00:05:20.800 proliferations of the three point shot and the disappearance of postplay, 102 00:05:22.279 --> 00:05:24.199 there's a whole bunch of other people who really love 103 00:05:24.279 --> 00:05:27.439 the pace of this game and the skill level and 104 00:05:27.560 --> 00:05:30.439 the movement. Because if you go back to what people 105 00:05:30.600 --> 00:05:33.800 start looking at as somehow this golden Age, a lot 106 00:05:33.839 --> 00:05:36.279 of the basketball in the nineties was brutal to watch 107 00:05:36.560 --> 00:05:41.639 because of the physicality, the over physicality, and this plotting 108 00:05:41.839 --> 00:05:45.279 half court play and scores. In the sixties and seventies 109 00:05:45.319 --> 00:05:47.639 and that bled into the two thousands. All of this 110 00:05:47.759 --> 00:05:50.319 before the NBA changed up the hand checking rules and 111 00:05:50.439 --> 00:05:54.680 changed up the illegal defense rules. In the early two thousands, 112 00:05:55.199 --> 00:05:56.800 the game was in a really bad place. 113 00:05:57.120 --> 00:05:57.519 Like it was. 114 00:05:57.720 --> 00:06:00.839 It was dreadful, and it was eight standing on one 115 00:06:00.879 --> 00:06:03.560 side of the court on the weak side, and one 116 00:06:03.600 --> 00:06:05.360 guy try to take his man off the dribble on 117 00:06:05.360 --> 00:06:07.360 the other side. Because of the old illegal defense rules, 118 00:06:07.360 --> 00:06:09.439 you could just drag the entire defense to one side 119 00:06:09.439 --> 00:06:12.959 of the court and go ISO. It was awful. So 120 00:06:13.040 --> 00:06:15.959 the idea that somehow, oh too many three pointers and 121 00:06:16.000 --> 00:06:20.600 all this has made the game unwatchable. Folks, go back, 122 00:06:20.800 --> 00:06:23.480 go back and pull up some highlights from the nineties 123 00:06:23.480 --> 00:06:25.199 and two thousands. Look at the scores, look at the 124 00:06:25.199 --> 00:06:30.319 style of play. It wasn't exactly the most aesthetically pleasing game. 125 00:06:32.519 --> 00:06:35.959 Okay, one more thing, because I will offer this and 126 00:06:36.000 --> 00:06:38.600 this is me personally coming at it from my prism, 127 00:06:38.759 --> 00:06:41.480 and you know, I have a feeling you are going 128 00:06:41.480 --> 00:06:43.480 to scold me and put me in the corner here, Howard. 129 00:06:43.519 --> 00:06:45.399 But I trust. 130 00:06:45.279 --> 00:06:48.480 Is going to be your nineties nixt upbringing coming into play. 131 00:06:48.639 --> 00:06:50.040 I believe well said. 132 00:06:50.160 --> 00:06:53.759 And also you know a Utah Jazz team that I 133 00:06:53.759 --> 00:06:56.319 grew up with, John and Carl who played hard every night, 134 00:06:56.360 --> 00:06:57.480 shut up to play every night. 135 00:06:58.079 --> 00:06:59.839 I do feel and I watch. 136 00:07:00.000 --> 00:07:01.879 Okay, this is not coming from a place where I'm 137 00:07:01.879 --> 00:07:04.240 a highlight guy. I watch games. I watch games almost 138 00:07:04.279 --> 00:07:09.160 every single night, and in my opinion, the effort level 139 00:07:09.360 --> 00:07:12.040 every night isn't there the way that it used to 140 00:07:12.079 --> 00:07:13.079 be once upon a time. 141 00:07:13.160 --> 00:07:13.360 Now. 142 00:07:13.399 --> 00:07:15.199 I also don't want to be the old guy that's 143 00:07:15.240 --> 00:07:17.560 complaining about a sport and a league that I love 144 00:07:18.680 --> 00:07:20.759 based off of what it was once upon a time. 145 00:07:20.639 --> 00:07:21.720 Because things changed. 146 00:07:21.800 --> 00:07:27.480 Things evolved, mainly guaranteed contracts and guaranteed money, where once 147 00:07:27.560 --> 00:07:29.279 upon a time, believe it or not, players did have 148 00:07:29.319 --> 00:07:30.279 to play for paychecks. 149 00:07:30.279 --> 00:07:31.800 They needed to be paid twice a month. 150 00:07:32.439 --> 00:07:34.360 And now a lot of these guys could never work 151 00:07:34.399 --> 00:07:36.600 again and they'd be just fine. And I'm sure if 152 00:07:36.639 --> 00:07:39.279 I had a seventy million dollar guarantee this year, i'd 153 00:07:39.759 --> 00:07:41.879 I'd make fart noises into my mic, you know, for 154 00:07:41.920 --> 00:07:44.040 four hours sometimes if I didn't feel like working. 155 00:07:44.360 --> 00:07:46.720 But I will offer that at times, it feels like 156 00:07:46.800 --> 00:07:47.560 the effort. 157 00:07:47.360 --> 00:07:50.399 Level isn't there every night, and it does feel a 158 00:07:50.439 --> 00:07:52.839 little All Star Game ish at times, and if you 159 00:07:52.920 --> 00:07:54.759 don't care, I don't care. 160 00:07:56.720 --> 00:07:58.800 I feel like I have heard a version of that 161 00:07:59.079 --> 00:08:01.680 in almost every era that I've been covering the league. Right, 162 00:08:01.720 --> 00:08:04.800 so my time covering the league starts in ninety seven, 163 00:08:05.439 --> 00:08:07.879 so that's twenty eight seasons now that I'm in the 164 00:08:07.879 --> 00:08:10.360 twenty eighth year, and I feel like this is a 165 00:08:10.399 --> 00:08:13.879 periodic complaint. And salaries were much less than the late 166 00:08:13.959 --> 00:08:15.560 nineties when I first started covering the league than they 167 00:08:15.600 --> 00:08:17.639 are now, So on the one hand, I feel like 168 00:08:17.639 --> 00:08:19.720 this is something that always comes up, and I think 169 00:08:19.720 --> 00:08:22.439 there's always a spread in the NBA. Among the four 170 00:08:22.519 --> 00:08:26.480 hundred and fifty players. There are some guys who absolutely 171 00:08:26.480 --> 00:08:29.959 live and die with the game, who are passionate, who 172 00:08:30.120 --> 00:08:32.279 live and breed basketball, and that's all they care about, 173 00:08:32.320 --> 00:08:34.679 and they want to win badly every night, and they 174 00:08:34.840 --> 00:08:38.799 always bring it. And then there's a spectrum that goes 175 00:08:38.840 --> 00:08:41.200 down from there. And yes, there's always a certain number 176 00:08:41.240 --> 00:08:45.039 of guys who are there just because they were good 177 00:08:45.120 --> 00:08:46.600 enough to make it and they like the money and 178 00:08:46.679 --> 00:08:49.919 the lifestyle and the wins and losses. Eh, who cares? 179 00:08:50.279 --> 00:08:53.360 I just you know, it's a living. I think that 180 00:08:53.679 --> 00:08:55.480 some versions. That's always been present, and I don't know 181 00:08:55.519 --> 00:08:58.639 that it's any more prevalent now than it was before. 182 00:08:58.759 --> 00:09:00.600 But to your point, I do. I think the money 183 00:09:00.639 --> 00:09:06.879 is so off the charts now that probably psychologically makes 184 00:09:06.919 --> 00:09:09.399 sense that it would be harder to maintain the same 185 00:09:09.480 --> 00:09:13.360 level of intensity or dedication. But like that hasn't stopped. 186 00:09:13.480 --> 00:09:15.519 Like Steph Curry, you can never accuse Steph Curry of 187 00:09:15.559 --> 00:09:17.639 not trying, or Lebron James of not trying, or Kevin 188 00:09:17.679 --> 00:09:20.559 Durant is not trying. And for all that Kawhi Leonard's 189 00:09:20.559 --> 00:09:23.440 been hurt and out, when Kawhi Leonard plays, he plays 190 00:09:23.440 --> 00:09:25.080 his butt off. Now there are some other guys I 191 00:09:25.080 --> 00:09:27.600 think fall more to the category you're talking about, but 192 00:09:28.600 --> 00:09:31.279 I don't know that it's any more prevalent than it 193 00:09:31.399 --> 00:09:35.080 used to be. I worry more when it's things like 194 00:09:35.120 --> 00:09:36.960 the All Star Game, right, like the reason we keep 195 00:09:37.000 --> 00:09:39.919 tweaking it and we got the new format announced this week, 196 00:09:40.440 --> 00:09:42.799 they keep tweaking it because I do think that's a 197 00:09:42.840 --> 00:09:47.000 place where the player's fame and wealth does come into play. 198 00:09:47.480 --> 00:09:50.320 They don't feel any obligation to play hard in that 199 00:09:50.399 --> 00:09:55.000 game the way their predecessors did. Because the league's in 200 00:09:55.039 --> 00:09:58.279 a great place. It just signed a TV deal worth 201 00:09:58.840 --> 00:10:02.000 tens of billions of dollars. The players are all making 202 00:10:02.039 --> 00:10:06.919 half of that collectively, and I don't know that they 203 00:10:06.919 --> 00:10:09.799 feel the same obligation to play hard in an All 204 00:10:09.840 --> 00:10:13.000 Star Game, or the Stars decided to be in the 205 00:10:13.080 --> 00:10:15.159 Dunk Contest with the way that they used to instead 206 00:10:15.159 --> 00:10:17.759 we get, you know, end of bench guys. I do 207 00:10:17.799 --> 00:10:20.840 think it's having an impact on some of those things. 208 00:10:21.399 --> 00:10:23.080 I don't think I've ever asked you this, because one 209 00:10:23.120 --> 00:10:26.000 of the takes that I've heard a lot from people who, 210 00:10:26.240 --> 00:10:28.240 you know, do believe that maybe the league needs to 211 00:10:28.240 --> 00:10:30.559 look at some things is shortening the regular season. 212 00:10:30.559 --> 00:10:31.799 Are are you a proponent of that. 213 00:10:33.320 --> 00:10:35.600 I've never had a real strong feeling about that one. 214 00:10:35.639 --> 00:10:37.639 I think that there's definitely a case to be made 215 00:10:37.679 --> 00:10:43.240 for it. I do think scarcity has value to it 216 00:10:43.320 --> 00:10:45.360 that if you had fewer games, they would all take 217 00:10:45.399 --> 00:10:48.639 on that much more importance and they would feel weightier. 218 00:10:48.639 --> 00:10:51.840 And when they feel weightier, just like in football, every 219 00:10:51.879 --> 00:10:57.679 game then has a definable stake to it. And I 220 00:10:57.720 --> 00:10:59.960 think that there's something too that whether that would help 221 00:11:00.039 --> 00:11:03.039 with all the load management and injury issues. I don't know. 222 00:11:03.360 --> 00:11:06.399 There's a case that, well, you play sixty six games 223 00:11:06.960 --> 00:11:10.120 instead of eighty two, we'll just ratchet it down and 224 00:11:10.159 --> 00:11:12.480 the guys who were only playing sixty out of eighty 225 00:11:12.480 --> 00:11:14.519 two will now play forty out of sixty six. Like, 226 00:11:14.879 --> 00:11:16.799 I don't know, I don't know how that ends up 227 00:11:16.919 --> 00:11:19.639 actually playing out in reality. I just know that the 228 00:11:19.679 --> 00:11:21.960 league has been really resistant to the idea of shortening 229 00:11:21.960 --> 00:11:25.000 the season because everything is tied to that, and not 230 00:11:25.080 --> 00:11:27.559 just the history of the game and stats and records, 231 00:11:27.639 --> 00:11:31.879 but the actual revenue. And you know, you'd like to 232 00:11:31.879 --> 00:11:34.519 think you could offset the loss of revenue of the 233 00:11:34.559 --> 00:11:36.679 games by just charging more for the games that you 234 00:11:36.799 --> 00:11:39.399 do play because there are fewer of them. But I 235 00:11:39.440 --> 00:11:41.240 don't know if that math actually works. I don't know 236 00:11:41.240 --> 00:11:45.720 if it's as easy as that. But there's a case, well, and. 237 00:11:45.720 --> 00:11:48.919 You reference revenue streams, and one of the things that 238 00:11:49.320 --> 00:11:52.519 certainly people probably don't care about but also probably don't 239 00:11:52.559 --> 00:11:56.279 know about, is the international revenue streams that the NBA 240 00:11:56.440 --> 00:11:59.200 has that Pro football doesn't. I think kind of allows 241 00:11:59.240 --> 00:12:02.759 them to not turn a blind eye on maybe lack 242 00:12:02.799 --> 00:12:06.480 of consistent interest domestically. But there's a reason when Darryl 243 00:12:06.519 --> 00:12:09.639 Morey tweeted out what he did. Everybody froze, and like, 244 00:12:09.720 --> 00:12:12.519 I tried to get information from a lot of NBA 245 00:12:12.559 --> 00:12:14.679 execs during that time, and I actually had a couple 246 00:12:14.679 --> 00:12:19.600 of conversations, but people were terrified to even utter the phrase, 247 00:12:20.080 --> 00:12:23.759 you know, China or whatever. But the you know, according 248 00:12:23.759 --> 00:12:26.240 to Sports Business Journal, the number one sport in the 249 00:12:26.279 --> 00:12:28.320 world is soccer and the number two sport in the 250 00:12:28.320 --> 00:12:29.480 world is basketball. 251 00:12:29.960 --> 00:12:30.720 So is there. 252 00:12:30.600 --> 00:12:34.759 Anything there as far as revenue streams generated from international 253 00:12:34.799 --> 00:12:38.679 interest that kind of allows them to, you know, accept 254 00:12:38.919 --> 00:12:40.960 what would be maybe a little bit of a decline 255 00:12:41.159 --> 00:12:43.320 in domestic interest, if that makes sense. 256 00:12:44.399 --> 00:12:47.240 I get it, But I don't think so like that 257 00:12:47.320 --> 00:12:49.919 would that would suggest that they think it's that that 258 00:12:50.720 --> 00:12:54.440 US interest from North American interests somehow expendable as long 259 00:12:54.480 --> 00:12:56.480 as they've got this kind of like safety net of 260 00:12:56.519 --> 00:12:57.559 international revenue. 261 00:12:57.559 --> 00:12:57.840 I don't. 262 00:12:58.120 --> 00:12:59.759 I don't think it quite works that way. And I 263 00:12:59.759 --> 00:13:01.519 think that, you know, to the to the point of 264 00:13:01.559 --> 00:13:05.279 this whole China, you know debacle, like there's a reason 265 00:13:05.360 --> 00:13:08.679 that you know, despite all the morality conflicts, that they 266 00:13:08.679 --> 00:13:12.000 are there anyway, and there's a reason that losing that 267 00:13:12.039 --> 00:13:15.240 revenue you know, like it just shows you how validle 268 00:13:15.240 --> 00:13:19.039 those relationships can be. There the base is the US 269 00:13:19.159 --> 00:13:21.480 or the US in Canada, and so like they need 270 00:13:21.519 --> 00:13:24.600 to nurture that obviously. So I don't I don't ever 271 00:13:24.639 --> 00:13:26.919 get the sense that they're feeling like, oh, we can, 272 00:13:26.960 --> 00:13:28.720 we can let it slide a little bit. I think 273 00:13:28.720 --> 00:13:33.519 it's important that they always have that that that passion 274 00:13:33.559 --> 00:13:35.600 for the game and that interest and sales and everything. Here, 275 00:13:35.879 --> 00:13:37.679 by the way, one of the things the other data 276 00:13:37.679 --> 00:13:41.120 points to note here real quick, before I forget if 277 00:13:41.159 --> 00:13:43.159 the game we're if the interest in the game, we're 278 00:13:43.200 --> 00:13:46.200 really ebbing that much, you would see it in attendance too. 279 00:13:46.759 --> 00:13:48.559 And well, I'm sure there's always you know, there's always 280 00:13:48.559 --> 00:13:50.600 a handful of teams that just aren't that interesting and 281 00:13:50.600 --> 00:13:53.519 so they don't draw, or they're in smaller markets or whatever. 282 00:13:53.919 --> 00:13:56.360 But you know, the NBA keeps the sending attendance records 283 00:13:56.360 --> 00:13:59.240 the year after year, and so you know that now 284 00:13:59.240 --> 00:14:01.840 that's a that's a number, right, Like you don't you 285 00:14:01.879 --> 00:14:03.919 only need nineteen twenty thousand sol of the building. You 286 00:14:03.960 --> 00:14:07.879 need millions to generate ratings to make you competitive on TV. 287 00:14:08.960 --> 00:14:12.279 But I think if a tenants started to creter, that's 288 00:14:12.279 --> 00:14:14.039 when they would really start to panic, because that would 289 00:14:14.039 --> 00:14:17.759 indicate that that interest is gone or interests is ebbing. 290 00:14:17.840 --> 00:14:19.639 And again it's the same thing with the social media 291 00:14:19.679 --> 00:14:23.279 stuff they do. Bunkers social media traffic, and that doesn't 292 00:14:23.320 --> 00:14:25.480 draw as much revenue and it doesn't show up in 293 00:14:25.519 --> 00:14:28.759 Nielsen ratings, but it is an indicator that the interest 294 00:14:29.000 --> 00:14:31.399 remains very, very high. 295 00:14:31.559 --> 00:14:33.799 All right, moving off of it, and I do want 296 00:14:33.840 --> 00:14:36.080 to talk a little NBA Cup. Okay, So we saw 297 00:14:36.120 --> 00:14:39.200 the final in Vegas, Giannis and the Bucks win. The 298 00:14:39.279 --> 00:14:42.080 year after Lebron the Lakers win, and that's not nothing, 299 00:14:42.200 --> 00:14:44.879 you know, to of your biggest bride of stars NBA 300 00:14:44.960 --> 00:14:48.600 Cup champs. Here's my beef with it, though, Howard, like, 301 00:14:48.960 --> 00:14:54.159 could we do something along the lines of a fan giveaway, 302 00:14:54.320 --> 00:14:57.799 Like if you're a Bucks fan and if your if 303 00:14:57.879 --> 00:15:02.159 your team advances to the NBA Cup semi finals to Vegas, 304 00:15:02.200 --> 00:15:05.120 can we do like, Hey, let's get five thousand Bucks 305 00:15:05.120 --> 00:15:08.600 fans there. You don't need all the revenue, so let's 306 00:15:08.679 --> 00:15:11.240 just give away tickets. Let's bring them to Vegas, Let's 307 00:15:11.240 --> 00:15:12.519 give them free accommodations. 308 00:15:12.840 --> 00:15:14.879 Like it felt like a Super Bowl. 309 00:15:14.639 --> 00:15:16.799 Crowd and all Star crowd, there was not a lot 310 00:15:16.840 --> 00:15:20.440 of enthusiasm, and I do think if the enthusiasm and 311 00:15:20.639 --> 00:15:22.879 atmosphere was a little bit more I don't know, final 312 00:15:22.919 --> 00:15:25.960 four March madness, it would add to the product. 313 00:15:26.080 --> 00:15:27.360 So just give me your thoughts on that. 314 00:15:27.440 --> 00:15:29.919 And also the dynamic of Jannis winning the year after 315 00:15:30.000 --> 00:15:30.559 Lebron did. 316 00:15:32.399 --> 00:15:35.039 It's a great sign for the league that Jannis very 317 00:15:35.159 --> 00:15:38.960 clearly overtly wanted this badly. Right because, as I've said 318 00:15:39.000 --> 00:15:41.200 many times, and I say this to somebody who's not 319 00:15:42.159 --> 00:15:45.279 you know, I'm neither pro nor con the NBA Cup. 320 00:15:45.279 --> 00:15:49.320 As I've said many times, I'm skeptical, agnostic. It's fine, 321 00:15:50.200 --> 00:15:52.080 but I'm not that into it. I just I don't 322 00:15:52.080 --> 00:15:55.679 think it's that interesting. But it doesn't matter what I think. 323 00:15:55.720 --> 00:15:58.080 It matters whether the players care to win this thing. 324 00:15:58.159 --> 00:16:00.360 If they believe it has meaning, then it has meaning. 325 00:16:00.399 --> 00:16:02.200 And Johannis, the way he went about it, the way 326 00:16:02.200 --> 00:16:05.919 he played, the way he celebrated winning it showed very 327 00:16:05.960 --> 00:16:09.120 clearly Yannis cares a lot about this thing. And then 328 00:16:09.360 --> 00:16:12.480 on the heels of that, if the players cares, then 329 00:16:12.480 --> 00:16:16.679 the fans will care. But yeah, the atmosphere in Vegas, 330 00:16:16.720 --> 00:16:18.600 and I watched from home as you did. I was 331 00:16:18.639 --> 00:16:20.440 not there, but it was very clear, and I've talked 332 00:16:20.440 --> 00:16:22.840 to people who were there. It was like an All 333 00:16:22.879 --> 00:16:25.080 Star game where people are sitting on their hands that 334 00:16:25.120 --> 00:16:28.240 the energy level is not that high, and the semi 335 00:16:28.240 --> 00:16:31.559 finals on Saturday clearly were not sellouts, far short of it. 336 00:16:31.799 --> 00:16:33.879 They announced the sellout for the final, but I'm not 337 00:16:34.639 --> 00:16:38.600 sure if I believe it. And even if it were 338 00:16:38.759 --> 00:16:41.720 like it's just it's a neutral site, it would have 339 00:16:41.759 --> 00:16:43.919 felt far different if that game had been in Milwaukee 340 00:16:44.080 --> 00:16:47.600 or in Oklahoma. And I do think that that's I 341 00:16:47.600 --> 00:16:49.600 don't know how big of a problem it is, but 342 00:16:49.639 --> 00:16:54.799 it's not great because it's all psychological, right, The game 343 00:16:54.879 --> 00:16:59.000 matters if we believe it matters. Okay, so Yannis acted 344 00:16:59.039 --> 00:17:01.559 like it mattered. Great, But if you don't have that 345 00:17:01.720 --> 00:17:04.279 roar of the crowd, if they're not reacting to every 346 00:17:04.359 --> 00:17:08.160 deep three or every incredible dunk or guy breaking another 347 00:17:08.200 --> 00:17:12.000 guy's ankles, it doesn't feel as intense because you don't 348 00:17:12.039 --> 00:17:14.480 have the crowd to back it up. It was almost 349 00:17:14.559 --> 00:17:17.640 like watching some of the Bubble games during COVID or 350 00:17:17.680 --> 00:17:20.640 post COVID, when they were only allowing like arenas to 351 00:17:20.680 --> 00:17:24.240 be half full and you miss something. When you don't 352 00:17:24.240 --> 00:17:28.559 have that immediate crowd reaction, it makes it feel a 353 00:17:28.599 --> 00:17:31.680 little less important. And so I don't know how they 354 00:17:31.720 --> 00:17:34.359 fix that. I don't know, Like trying to do this 355 00:17:34.440 --> 00:17:37.519 in home markets is hard because you can't just tell 356 00:17:37.559 --> 00:17:41.359 arenas to block off all these games across the league. Yeah, 357 00:17:41.440 --> 00:17:44.160 because you don't know who's going to be in it. 358 00:17:43.279 --> 00:17:45.240 It's hard. It's a puzzle. 359 00:17:46.200 --> 00:17:47.240 Yeah, And that's one of the things. 360 00:17:47.240 --> 00:17:48.720 I'm glad you said that at the end, because a 361 00:17:48.720 --> 00:17:51.559 couple of guests I have I've had to talk about 362 00:17:51.559 --> 00:17:54.799 this have mentioned that Dynamic and most arenas need the 363 00:17:55.640 --> 00:17:58.119 Dark Knights with pro basketball like we have hockey now, 364 00:17:58.119 --> 00:18:00.000 and they have a lot of concerts at the Delta Center. 365 00:18:00.079 --> 00:18:01.880 So I'm not sure that that's the remedy. But like you, 366 00:18:01.960 --> 00:18:03.599 I'm not all that into it. 367 00:18:03.759 --> 00:18:06.880 But this is the endeavor that the NBA has decided 368 00:18:06.920 --> 00:18:10.039 to take on to try to generate interests in the 369 00:18:10.079 --> 00:18:13.079 regular season. If we have this conversation in I don't know, 370 00:18:13.240 --> 00:18:16.400 ten years, are we talking about the NBA Cup Differently, 371 00:18:16.480 --> 00:18:18.519 I'm asking you to read the future now, Howard. 372 00:18:20.440 --> 00:18:24.519 Yeah, I don't know. I don't think it's going anywhere, 373 00:18:24.559 --> 00:18:27.680 Like I do, think it's here to stay. The league 374 00:18:27.720 --> 00:18:31.839 has obviously invested a ton in the concept and the execution, 375 00:18:32.599 --> 00:18:35.559 and they now have Amazon lined up, you know, as 376 00:18:35.599 --> 00:18:39.200 their new partner starting next season, and Amazon will own 377 00:18:39.240 --> 00:18:42.079 this thing and they'll they'll you know, they'll broadcast it, 378 00:18:42.119 --> 00:18:45.160 and they're paying for it. So it's not going anywhere. 379 00:18:45.480 --> 00:18:48.559 The question just becomes more the logistics and the mechanics 380 00:18:48.599 --> 00:18:51.359 of it all. But ten years from now, yeah, I 381 00:18:51.359 --> 00:18:55.400 think it's probably still around. But the question is more, 382 00:18:55.880 --> 00:18:58.519 you know, does it look and sound and feel the 383 00:18:58.559 --> 00:19:01.880 same as the structure the same? Do they need to 384 00:19:02.079 --> 00:19:05.759 tweak it along the way, and are we still buying 385 00:19:05.799 --> 00:19:07.920 into it right Like right now I'm sitting here going, hey, 386 00:19:07.920 --> 00:19:10.640 how great was it that Lebron That Giannis really went 387 00:19:10.680 --> 00:19:12.480 all out for it and that Lebron did a yur 388 00:19:12.519 --> 00:19:14.119 ago Like that's a great sign. 389 00:19:14.160 --> 00:19:15.279 Those are great signs. 390 00:19:15.960 --> 00:19:18.160 But what if next year we get two kind of 391 00:19:18.240 --> 00:19:21.440 Lacklusser teams and it starts to feel like something where 392 00:19:21.519 --> 00:19:23.519 they're doing it just because it's on the schedule or 393 00:19:24.519 --> 00:19:26.559 you know, you know what I mean, Like it there's 394 00:19:26.559 --> 00:19:28.480 no guarantee that this is going to feel as vital 395 00:19:28.519 --> 00:19:30.839 year after year. But if it does, then ten years 396 00:19:30.839 --> 00:19:33.400 from now we'll be talking about how this is now 397 00:19:33.480 --> 00:19:37.240 just it's part of the landscape. It's it's become part 398 00:19:37.279 --> 00:19:41.279 of the institution, and you know, it's not a surprise 399 00:19:41.680 --> 00:19:43.480 or a mystery about whether or not people will care. 400 00:19:43.799 --> 00:19:45.839 And maybe after ten years people will truly care. Like 401 00:19:45.920 --> 00:19:48.079