1 00:00:04,960 --> 00:00:09,199 Speaker 1: Hello, Hello, this is Christina and Carmen and this is 2 00:00:09,240 --> 00:00:12,000 another episode of Spooky Tells, a podcast for all things 3 00:00:12,160 --> 00:00:18,239 spooky true crime in Latin America. And we're back. Bebe. 4 00:00:19,000 --> 00:00:21,719 I was gonna say baby, but then maybe I should 5 00:00:21,719 --> 00:00:23,719 have said babe. I don't know. It's too late now, 6 00:00:23,839 --> 00:00:26,960 yeah it is. It is, you said, wen, And that's 7 00:00:27,000 --> 00:00:31,079 the take we're going with them anyway. Yeah, we're back 8 00:00:32,079 --> 00:00:35,320 after our break. I I'm almost done moving. I have 9 00:00:35,439 --> 00:00:40,520 unearthed my mic. Okay, I think we've yapped about enough. 10 00:00:40,600 --> 00:00:43,759 Yeah that's for a patron. If you are not a patron, 11 00:00:43,840 --> 00:00:48,920 you missed our episode, our yapp session. Okay, So on 12 00:00:49,280 --> 00:00:54,159 today's episode, I have to warn everyone. It is a 13 00:00:54,200 --> 00:00:57,200 tough one. The name. It's like, oh, it's just like 14 00:00:57,240 --> 00:01:00,280 a scary story, and then it's like, no, it's just terrible. Yeah. 15 00:01:02,119 --> 00:01:07,519 Oh you thought this was paranormal. It's actually probably terrible, violence, sexism, 16 00:01:07,640 --> 00:01:10,280 and I don't know what else. Yeah. Yeah, we are 17 00:01:10,319 --> 00:01:13,719 talking about the exorcism of vilmatru Jigo. But before that, 18 00:01:13,799 --> 00:01:16,719 we took first yes, but sorry, no you got excited. 19 00:01:16,719 --> 00:01:20,959 It's okay, I did, I did, But first a listener 20 00:01:21,079 --> 00:01:22,840 story and if you have a story that you want 21 00:01:22,879 --> 00:01:24,599 to send us. There are so many ways to get 22 00:01:24,640 --> 00:01:26,200 to us. You can email a spooky to dos at 23 00:01:26,200 --> 00:01:28,799 gmail dot com. You can DM us on any of 24 00:01:28,840 --> 00:01:31,879 our socials, you can call the Espooky Hotline, or you 25 00:01:31,879 --> 00:01:33,959 can submit it on Discord like this person did. And 26 00:01:34,040 --> 00:01:35,879 I don't know if they wanted their user name shared. 27 00:01:36,040 --> 00:01:38,519 I don't remember, so I might have not copied it down. 28 00:01:38,879 --> 00:01:40,959 But thanks so much for submitting it on Discord. You 29 00:01:41,040 --> 00:01:43,519 know who you are. Yeah, I don't think you included it, 30 00:01:43,560 --> 00:01:46,200 but they know who they are. They do, okay, and 31 00:01:46,280 --> 00:01:49,319 thank you listener. Here goes. I didn't know that I 32 00:01:49,359 --> 00:01:51,920 was gifted, as in I could feel spooky shit until 33 00:01:51,959 --> 00:01:53,959 this event when I was a teenager, and then my 34 00:01:54,040 --> 00:01:56,719 mom told me, oh, yeah, you were super sensitive as 35 00:01:56,760 --> 00:01:59,159 a kid, blah blah. So I guess this incident just 36 00:01:59,159 --> 00:02:01,799 made me realize. We were at a beach resort with 37 00:02:01,799 --> 00:02:04,760 our friends in Indonesia, and from the moment we got there, 38 00:02:04,879 --> 00:02:08,240 my mom was like dawie dabie poe, which is like 39 00:02:08,360 --> 00:02:10,680 excuse me in Tagalog. We also use it when we 40 00:02:10,719 --> 00:02:12,800 think that there are paranormal things around and we're trying 41 00:02:12,840 --> 00:02:15,319 to be respectful. I even made a comment to my 42 00:02:15,400 --> 00:02:18,159 mom telling her that the spirits probably didn't understand her. 43 00:02:18,439 --> 00:02:20,319 But I should have seen that as a sign, because 44 00:02:20,400 --> 00:02:23,319 my also sensitive mom felt something. We spent the day 45 00:02:23,360 --> 00:02:25,719 having fun at the beach, but some weird stuff happened, 46 00:02:25,800 --> 00:02:27,680 like when some of our friends took pictures in the 47 00:02:27,759 --> 00:02:30,240 room where all the girls, including me would sleep in, 48 00:02:30,680 --> 00:02:35,000 they saw skuls and their photos m mmmm, which we 49 00:02:35,120 --> 00:02:40,360 laughed off as the trick of a like girl. Someone 50 00:02:40,360 --> 00:02:42,360 swore that they saw a face in the trees, but 51 00:02:42,479 --> 00:02:44,719 she thinks that she was just tired from all the 52 00:02:44,719 --> 00:02:49,319 swimming and was hallucinating. A common side effect of swimming 53 00:02:49,719 --> 00:02:54,240 is seen. No, a common side effect of fatigue is 54 00:02:54,280 --> 00:02:59,879 hosting because I've been there, but skulls, you were hastening skulls. Okay, 55 00:03:00,120 --> 00:03:03,039 let's pause here for a moment. And basic training. When 56 00:03:03,080 --> 00:03:05,159 we had to do the last like long ass fucking 57 00:03:05,199 --> 00:03:07,599 rock march after they purposely didn't let us sleep, which 58 00:03:07,639 --> 00:03:10,919 is not something they're supposed to do. That's not sure. Yeah, basically, 59 00:03:12,879 --> 00:03:15,759 at least a couple of girls. I remember towards the 60 00:03:15,800 --> 00:03:19,360 end of the march, we were all dying and someone 61 00:03:19,520 --> 00:03:22,719 swore they saw shadows in the trees like it is 62 00:03:22,879 --> 00:03:27,159 very common. Yeah, okay, back to the story. And then 63 00:03:27,199 --> 00:03:29,840 my friend's grandma said, so, I saw step Ember go 64 00:03:29,879 --> 00:03:31,879 into the girls room, but when I ran to him 65 00:03:32,280 --> 00:03:33,840 to ask him why he was checking their room, and 66 00:03:33,879 --> 00:03:36,680 there was nobody there. Oh. We were all kind of 67 00:03:36,680 --> 00:03:39,240 freaked out, especially after the last event, but we all 68 00:03:39,280 --> 00:03:44,280 watched Andrew Lloyd Webber movies to distress and fall asleep. Anyway, 69 00:03:44,360 --> 00:03:46,439 we ended the night on the Phantom of the Opera, 70 00:03:47,199 --> 00:03:49,800 not relevant to story. That's what they wrote. I love that. 71 00:03:49,800 --> 00:03:52,520 I'll mentioned that because I love these details. I will 72 00:03:52,560 --> 00:03:54,759 say their brain works like our brain. Yes, the Phantom 73 00:03:54,759 --> 00:03:57,960 of the Opera not really something distressing. It's kind of 74 00:03:58,039 --> 00:04:01,680 like stressful to watch being tortured. I mean, I love, 75 00:04:01,879 --> 00:04:05,280 I do like the movie, but like it's not a 76 00:04:05,319 --> 00:04:10,680 relaxing watch. Yeah to somen So we all retired to 77 00:04:10,680 --> 00:04:13,039 our beds, expecting a good night's sleep and another fun 78 00:04:13,120 --> 00:04:15,560 day at the beach tomorrow. But nobody in my room 79 00:04:15,639 --> 00:04:19,040 got good sleep. Someone dreamt of demons, my sister heard 80 00:04:19,079 --> 00:04:21,600 knocking on her head rest, only to wake up to 81 00:04:21,639 --> 00:04:24,439 find nobody there. And I woke up to find someone 82 00:04:24,519 --> 00:04:28,600 pulling my blankets. M mmm, and I thought someone was 83 00:04:28,639 --> 00:04:30,560 messing with me, so I turned the light on, expecting 84 00:04:30,600 --> 00:04:33,199 to beret someone. But my blankets were moving and nobody 85 00:04:33,279 --> 00:04:37,680 was pulling it, at least from what I could see. 86 00:04:37,759 --> 00:04:39,560 I know I was awake because I was saying the 87 00:04:39,600 --> 00:04:42,519 Lord's Prayer over and over again until whatever it was 88 00:04:42,560 --> 00:04:45,360 stop pulling my blankets. They needed to make sure they 89 00:04:45,399 --> 00:04:49,240 were dreaming. Yeah, when the coast was clear and I 90 00:04:49,240 --> 00:04:51,279 stopped freaking out, I then went to my sister's bed 91 00:04:51,360 --> 00:04:53,560 and forced her to make space for me to crawl. 92 00:04:55,160 --> 00:04:57,160 She was okay with it because it made her bed 93 00:04:57,240 --> 00:04:59,199 less scary, but she didn't tell me about what she 94 00:04:59,279 --> 00:05:02,079 experienced until morning, so they were both scared because imagine 95 00:05:02,120 --> 00:05:03,800 she went in there to feel better. She's like, Yeah, 96 00:05:03,800 --> 00:05:08,079 someone would knocking here, like all night. When we woke 97 00:05:08,160 --> 00:05:10,759 up the next day and traded stories, we realized that 98 00:05:10,800 --> 00:05:13,720 this resort could actually be haunted. So instead of staying 99 00:05:13,720 --> 00:05:17,120 for two nights, we left after having breakfast. These people 100 00:05:17,160 --> 00:05:19,680 would survived the scary movie. Yes, they would have survived. 101 00:05:20,879 --> 00:05:23,759 Everyone in the resort villa minus my mom and dad, 102 00:05:23,800 --> 00:05:26,360 experienced some spooky shit, but I chucked it up to 103 00:05:26,399 --> 00:05:29,040 my mom, saying Tabi Tabi pole, which I found strange 104 00:05:29,040 --> 00:05:31,360 at first, but I guess the spooks thought she was 105 00:05:31,399 --> 00:05:34,079 being respectful and didn't bother her, even if I thought 106 00:05:34,160 --> 00:05:37,439 the Indonesian ghostis didn't speak a Filipino language, which turns 107 00:05:37,439 --> 00:05:42,720 out they did. What if tai po is universal oversall? Yeah, yeah, 108 00:05:42,759 --> 00:05:47,000 I think they understood the spirit of the gesture behind it. Yes, yeah, 109 00:05:47,879 --> 00:05:49,560 this was the start of my sister and I having 110 00:05:49,600 --> 00:05:52,560 other paranormal experiences since we realized that we were gifted, 111 00:05:53,040 --> 00:05:54,879 which I guess was given because both of our parents 112 00:05:54,920 --> 00:05:57,560 are also sensitive. But this was also the biggest thing 113 00:05:57,560 --> 00:05:59,680 that had happened. So this is a story I decided 114 00:05:59,680 --> 00:06:01,279 to tell. Well, tell us the rest of them. Well, 115 00:06:01,279 --> 00:06:04,639 if you have more, please, and then they just end 116 00:06:04,680 --> 00:06:08,240 the paragraph by saying, anyway, I love hearing your spooky stories. Okay, 117 00:06:08,480 --> 00:06:11,199 and yes, thank you again for saying that in And 118 00:06:11,560 --> 00:06:14,160 if you have any more stories, does send in because 119 00:06:14,199 --> 00:06:16,920 send them our way because you're gifted. So yeah, send 120 00:06:16,920 --> 00:06:19,759 them our away, okay, And we'll take a little break here, 121 00:06:19,800 --> 00:06:27,639 then we'll be back with my very depressing story. And 122 00:06:27,680 --> 00:06:31,240 we're back, and so again, this is the Exorcism of 123 00:06:31,279 --> 00:06:34,279 Wilma Trujillo and I want to say it was a 124 00:06:34,279 --> 00:06:36,319 couple of years back that we did a little mini 125 00:06:36,399 --> 00:06:39,959 series on exorcisms, and we had like one super creepy 126 00:06:40,000 --> 00:06:44,199 exorcism story that was like purely paranormal, and then we 127 00:06:44,240 --> 00:06:46,439 had like another depressing US episode where it was like, 128 00:06:46,480 --> 00:06:49,360 these are exorcisms, but really they're like true crime cases 129 00:06:49,399 --> 00:06:54,279 where these people were killed in the name of exorcisms. Yeah, 130 00:06:54,319 --> 00:06:57,720 and that's the thing about exorcisms, you know, they're dangerous, 131 00:06:58,360 --> 00:07:00,680 not in the spooky sense. Oh no, not in the 132 00:07:00,680 --> 00:07:03,920 spooky sense. Like now, within the Catholic Church today, there's 133 00:07:04,120 --> 00:07:07,000 very specific rules, which MJ went over when we did 134 00:07:07,040 --> 00:07:11,600 that series. These rules go out of the window when 135 00:07:11,600 --> 00:07:14,040 you leave these very strict guidelines of the Catholic Church. 136 00:07:14,759 --> 00:07:17,720 And that's as you say, it doesn't like whenever they're 137 00:07:17,759 --> 00:07:21,360 not approved and very specific, then yeah, that's when things 138 00:07:21,399 --> 00:07:26,319 are like anything's for game to them a little more risky, yes, exactly. 139 00:07:26,680 --> 00:07:29,519 And today's case is one of those. So it's not 140 00:07:29,560 --> 00:07:32,600 a parable case where it's like you're gonna listen to 141 00:07:32,680 --> 00:07:34,879 him like, oh that was scary. No, this is fucking depressing. 142 00:07:36,279 --> 00:07:39,839 This takes place in Nicaragua and If you guess that 143 00:07:39,879 --> 00:07:45,000 there's an evangelical church involved, you guess right. Twenty five 144 00:07:45,040 --> 00:07:47,480 year old Vitma Trujillo Garcia was the mother of two, 145 00:07:47,680 --> 00:07:50,439 a wife, a sister, and a friend. Her husband provided 146 00:07:50,480 --> 00:07:52,879 for the family, but she also made her own money 147 00:07:52,920 --> 00:07:57,399 selling artisanal goods. She sold cheese, banda mayis, and candies. 148 00:07:57,959 --> 00:08:01,079 And her favorite candies were kahitas it goco, which are 149 00:08:01,399 --> 00:08:05,399 coca flakes with caramel and frescos aros. And I believe 150 00:08:05,399 --> 00:08:08,680 these are like flavored or chatnas. Oh that makes sense. 151 00:08:08,879 --> 00:08:12,120 It is a rice drink. Yeah. And she would wake 152 00:08:12,240 --> 00:08:14,800 up before sunrise every day to prepare her goods to 153 00:08:14,839 --> 00:08:19,079 sell to her community. El Corte Sal in the municipality 154 00:08:19,160 --> 00:08:23,680 of Rosita, and there's also a town Rosita and Rosita 155 00:08:24,959 --> 00:08:30,399 and Rosita. The town is four hundred and eighty kilometers 156 00:08:30,439 --> 00:08:34,639 away from the capital of Nicaragua, which is Managua. And 157 00:08:34,759 --> 00:08:39,320 this area has a long history of exploitation by mining companies. 158 00:08:39,840 --> 00:08:43,320 It's very remote, with an unemployment rate of eighty percent. 159 00:08:43,840 --> 00:08:48,360 Oh wow. And Elcrtasal is even more remote than Rosita. 160 00:08:49,279 --> 00:08:52,720 It can hardly be called the pueblo. It doesn't show 161 00:08:52,799 --> 00:08:56,840 up on a map. To reach El Corte Sal from Rosita, 162 00:08:57,440 --> 00:09:00,639 you have to drive rugged roads on a four by 163 00:09:00,679 --> 00:09:05,679 four vehicle for two hours, and then four hours on 164 00:09:05,679 --> 00:09:10,840 a mule, and then another four hours walking through jungles 165 00:09:10,879 --> 00:09:16,720 and mountains. Damn. Yeah, that's how remote this is. There's 166 00:09:16,840 --> 00:09:21,559 no schools there, there's no doctors, no podable water, no 167 00:09:21,639 --> 00:09:26,200 police department, nothing, just you know. Obviously, the people who 168 00:09:26,240 --> 00:09:29,799 live there like their homesteads, small farmland. That reminds me 169 00:09:29,799 --> 00:09:33,559 of the movie that we watched at the remember the 170 00:09:33,600 --> 00:09:36,480 Oh yes, they were in the mountains. Yes, actually that 171 00:09:36,559 --> 00:09:39,480 sounds very like a very remote like village. I guess 172 00:09:39,519 --> 00:09:42,840 you would call it like smaller than Yes, that sounds 173 00:09:42,960 --> 00:09:46,720 very similar, very similar. Because also this that place only 174 00:09:46,759 --> 00:09:48,720 had a church basically, and this place also only has 175 00:09:48,759 --> 00:09:53,360 a church. It's never good, no, So yeah, the homesteads, 176 00:09:53,480 --> 00:09:56,440 which in between those there was like small farmland which 177 00:09:56,440 --> 00:10:00,279 mostly grew beans. Then there was a couple of small 178 00:10:00,399 --> 00:10:05,480 radios for listening to religious services in the area Cortasal 179 00:10:05,600 --> 00:10:09,679 and then an evangelical church, and that evangelical church was 180 00:10:10,080 --> 00:10:14,799 Vision Celestial or Celestial Vision in English. And so this 181 00:10:14,840 --> 00:10:16,840 is the setting in which Vilma finds herself when the 182 00:10:16,879 --> 00:10:20,120 exorcism would take place. But before that happened, things were 183 00:10:20,120 --> 00:10:24,360 mostly fine. By all accounts, Vilma Trujillo was kind, loving, 184 00:10:24,519 --> 00:10:28,000 caring and funny. But when her mom passed away from cancer, 185 00:10:28,240 --> 00:10:31,679 Vilima had a crisis in a faith understandable right, A 186 00:10:31,720 --> 00:10:35,200 common a common occurrence. Yeah. While the rest of her 187 00:10:35,200 --> 00:10:38,440 family remained a Catholic, she and her younger sister converted 188 00:10:38,440 --> 00:10:44,000 into Evangelism and joined the Celestial Vision Church. I don't 189 00:10:44,000 --> 00:10:47,799 want to talk about a specific branch of Christianity, but 190 00:10:48,200 --> 00:10:52,679 it's so common to be preyed upon by the evangelical 191 00:10:52,759 --> 00:10:54,919 church when you are in the moment of crisis. And 192 00:10:54,960 --> 00:10:59,519 I have seen it myself with people that were Catholic beforehand. 193 00:10:59,720 --> 00:11:02,159 Not to say one is better than the other, although 194 00:11:02,200 --> 00:11:08,000 in these times whatever, I think it's fine to say, no, 195 00:11:08,080 --> 00:11:10,799 I'm just kidding, but yeah, I mean I seen it 196 00:11:10,840 --> 00:11:13,519 myself or someone you know, they had a crisis happen, 197 00:11:14,120 --> 00:11:16,480 and I've seen it in real life. Then, of course 198 00:11:16,519 --> 00:11:20,159 the many accounts online and stuff where you know they're 199 00:11:20,200 --> 00:11:23,039 going to through probably the most stressful times of their lives, 200 00:11:23,519 --> 00:11:27,200 and they unfortunately find the imagical church well and we've 201 00:11:27,200 --> 00:11:30,039 said this. I think we've said it more on estorias 202 00:11:30,039 --> 00:11:32,360 are known. It's possible that it has come up and 203 00:11:32,440 --> 00:11:36,200 Spooky tells too though, But like it's not false to 204 00:11:36,240 --> 00:11:39,559 say that the Evangelical Church does prey upon people, but 205 00:11:39,799 --> 00:11:42,559 also it's so important for people to know or to 206 00:11:42,600 --> 00:11:45,639 be aware of their The reason they have grown so 207 00:11:45,759 --> 00:11:49,039 much in Latin America is because of CIA, Because, yeah, 208 00:11:49,159 --> 00:11:52,879 Libertian theology was growing as a movement, which is where 209 00:11:52,919 --> 00:11:59,200 like you know, Catholics like Saint oscarro Meto were really 210 00:11:59,240 --> 00:12:03,679 really preaching about giving to the poor, about the real 211 00:12:03,720 --> 00:12:05,840 things that you're supposed to care about as a religious 212 00:12:05,879 --> 00:12:09,519 Catholic person, like Jesus, right, So that was a growing movement, 213 00:12:09,559 --> 00:12:13,159 and in order to stop that growing movement, they funded 214 00:12:14,000 --> 00:12:19,200 and inserted this evangelical movement into Latin America. And now 215 00:12:19,240 --> 00:12:24,240 in so many places that were formally Catholic, the majority 216 00:12:24,399 --> 00:12:27,720 church is Evangelical. And that's actually also the case here, 217 00:12:27,799 --> 00:12:32,399 which I'm sure Elkotasan was largely Catholic until recently when 218 00:12:32,480 --> 00:12:35,960 half the population had converted to the Emagelical Church. So 219 00:12:36,000 --> 00:12:38,360 when she joined this church, her husband noticed a change. 220 00:12:38,759 --> 00:12:40,879 She started to talk more about demons and how they 221 00:12:40,879 --> 00:12:44,399 were attacking her, something she never used to say. And 222 00:12:44,480 --> 00:12:47,320 you know what, that's such a common thing. I think 223 00:12:47,320 --> 00:12:51,879 they call it spiritual psychosis when it's extreme, but it's 224 00:12:52,000 --> 00:12:56,519 more of a thing in these evangelical and extreme fundamental 225 00:12:56,600 --> 00:13:01,159 Christian spaces than your regular role Catholic Saturday church going. Well, 226 00:13:01,200 --> 00:13:04,279 it's encouraged. It's encouraged, yeah, to say like, oh, I'm 227 00:13:04,320 --> 00:13:07,480 being spiritually attacked and things like that, to the point 228 00:13:07,519 --> 00:13:10,559 where people were making videos in the super Bowl that 229 00:13:11,879 --> 00:13:14,399 it was it was a demonic message from Kendrick Lamar, 230 00:13:15,039 --> 00:13:18,720 a spirituitual attack on Christian America, And I'm like, really, 231 00:13:18,720 --> 00:13:22,799 you're reading into this like of course are wild? Also 232 00:13:23,000 --> 00:13:25,360 like if you look at him, because we also did 233 00:13:25,919 --> 00:13:30,279 the episode on the what was it called oh Laluce Yes, 234 00:13:30,639 --> 00:13:33,879 lal Mundo, Yeah, when there's a whole like YouTube page 235 00:13:33,919 --> 00:13:37,639 that kid or was it Reddit. I don't remember interviews 236 00:13:37,679 --> 00:13:40,279 of people leaving La lucea Mundo because it literally is 237 00:13:40,320 --> 00:13:43,080 a cult like as we talked about in that episode, 238 00:13:43,120 --> 00:13:46,480 But there's people who talk about their experience in La 239 00:13:46,559 --> 00:13:50,600 Luce Mundo and they talk about like having been forced 240 00:13:50,679 --> 00:13:54,919 or encouraged to feel like they were being spiritually overwhelmed 241 00:13:54,919 --> 00:13:57,600 in a certain moment, and to like convulse and shake 242 00:13:58,639 --> 00:14:01,320 to get out of these like hours long sessions of 243 00:14:01,360 --> 00:14:03,799 confessions and things like that. So yeah, this is a 244 00:14:03,879 --> 00:14:08,399 very common common thing. He also felt like she was 245 00:14:08,440 --> 00:14:10,960 starting to pick more fights with him, especially after coming 246 00:14:11,000 --> 00:14:14,200 back home from church services, which was also unlike her. 247 00:14:15,240 --> 00:14:18,360 All of this really rammed up. In February of twenty seventeen, 248 00:14:18,960 --> 00:14:23,039 Vilma began to talk more about demons. She walked into 249 00:14:23,080 --> 00:14:26,279 her sister Madeleine's small house, and while Madelene gave her 250 00:14:26,320 --> 00:14:31,039 the usual high, something was wrong. Milma was walking all wobbly. 251 00:14:31,200 --> 00:14:33,919 She was knocking things over. She didn't look right. Her 252 00:14:34,120 --> 00:14:37,360 white part of her eyes as Clara, looked yellow, and 253 00:14:37,399 --> 00:14:40,480 her lips were super dry. When she finally spoke, she 254 00:14:40,519 --> 00:14:43,720 did not say hi, and her voice was dry and raspy. 255 00:14:43,879 --> 00:14:50,200 She told her sister, Madelene, do you know you won't 256 00:14:50,240 --> 00:14:54,559 give birth to a baby but to a serpent? Yikes. 257 00:14:55,639 --> 00:14:57,799 Then she fell to her knees began to cry and 258 00:14:57,840 --> 00:15:01,200 scream about the devil. Her sister had never seen her 259 00:15:01,279 --> 00:15:04,879 like this. Then Vilman began to hallucinate and talk to herself. 260 00:15:05,200 --> 00:15:07,600 They had already gone to the local cournandero, who gave 261 00:15:07,639 --> 00:15:10,159 her something to drink. They didn't know what this was, 262 00:15:10,200 --> 00:15:12,399 but she seemed the worse since she began to take it. 263 00:15:13,120 --> 00:15:15,240 Her husband tried to ask her to stop drinking it, 264 00:15:15,279 --> 00:15:17,879 but there was no reasoning with her. Her family knew 265 00:15:17,960 --> 00:15:19,639 she needed help, but it would take them a whole 266 00:15:19,679 --> 00:15:22,360 day to reach a doctor, so instead they reached out 267 00:15:22,399 --> 00:15:24,960 to a twenty three year old Juan Rocha, the young 268 00:15:24,960 --> 00:15:28,080 pastor from Celestial Vicion de la Samblea de Dios, the 269 00:15:28,200 --> 00:15:31,919 evangelical church, which he himself had not been a pastor 270 00:15:32,000 --> 00:15:35,000 of for very long. He had grown up in the area, 271 00:15:35,240 --> 00:15:37,720 was the son of a farmer and one of the 272 00:15:37,759 --> 00:15:41,080 more educated members of the community, having graduated fourth grade. 273 00:15:41,720 --> 00:15:44,559 It's unclear when or why he declared himself pastor of 274 00:15:44,600 --> 00:15:47,000 the church, but many went with it because of his education, 275 00:15:47,960 --> 00:15:50,720 so he agreed to go see her. He arrived to her 276 00:15:50,720 --> 00:15:54,480 home on the fifteenth of February of twenty seventeen and said, 277 00:15:55,360 --> 00:15:59,200 Milimasta and de Moniela vilma sita se liberada del mar 278 00:15:59,320 --> 00:16:04,360 klaiechocao vima is possessed. She needs to be freed from 279 00:16:04,360 --> 00:16:06,320 the evil that has caused her to fall into sin. 280 00:16:07,519 --> 00:16:10,200 He and his followers invited Vilma to follow them to 281 00:16:10,240 --> 00:16:14,360 a Templo Vistan. Vilma and her family were desperate, and 282 00:16:14,399 --> 00:16:17,799 they accepted. They walked for an hour along muddy paths 283 00:16:17,879 --> 00:16:21,039 until they reached the church on a secluded hillside. I'm 284 00:16:21,039 --> 00:16:24,000 just thinking of that movie you watched. Honestly, I wish 285 00:16:24,039 --> 00:16:25,759 I could remember the name of the movie. I know 286 00:16:25,840 --> 00:16:27,600 me too. I only remember the Hour of Blood, and 287 00:16:27,600 --> 00:16:30,120 I remember the name of the other one. Shaman is 288 00:16:30,120 --> 00:16:32,960 the movie we're talking about, and I think if you 289 00:16:33,039 --> 00:16:34,799 watch it, you can get an idea of what this 290 00:16:34,840 --> 00:16:38,279 place looks like, even though Shaman takes place in Peru. 291 00:16:38,759 --> 00:16:41,279 But you talked about mountains in jungle, right like that 292 00:16:41,320 --> 00:16:44,000 they had to walk through sa Yes, yes, that's why 293 00:16:44,120 --> 00:16:50,200 it's very much, very similar. Yeah. Vilma entered Juandrocha's small 294 00:16:50,200 --> 00:16:52,399 home in front of the church and recognized the others 295 00:16:52,440 --> 00:16:56,960 Pedro Jose, the young pastor's brother, Domasa, their sister, and 296 00:16:57,360 --> 00:17:02,039 Franklin Hadkin, Domasa's husband, all members and leaders within the 297 00:17:02,080 --> 00:17:06,400 small evangelical church. Bilma's father, Catalino, asked if he could 298 00:17:06,440 --> 00:17:09,200 stay with his sister Pajuan Rocha told her no, to 299 00:17:09,319 --> 00:17:12,160 go home and pray that's where he would be of service. 300 00:17:12,920 --> 00:17:14,759 They closed the door and tied her to a bed. 301 00:17:15,559 --> 00:17:18,319 Then four days they deprived her of food and water 302 00:17:18,880 --> 00:17:21,960 while the four recided prayers. Just second, when you're when 303 00:17:21,960 --> 00:17:25,119 you're worthholding food and like water from someone that's not 304 00:17:25,519 --> 00:17:28,960 that's torture, that's not like what rules are They're just 305 00:17:29,000 --> 00:17:31,279 making everything up as they go. They're making it up 306 00:17:31,279 --> 00:17:35,079 as they go. Yeah. Yeah. Throughout those days, Wilma's family 307 00:17:35,119 --> 00:17:37,400 tried knocking to see her, but they would be turned away, 308 00:17:37,480 --> 00:17:41,599 always told the same thing, she's not yet cured. After 309 00:17:41,640 --> 00:17:44,200 five days of being tied alone, away from her family, 310 00:17:44,240 --> 00:17:48,680 without food or water or her clothes, Vilma rebeled she 311 00:17:48,759 --> 00:17:51,640 had gone willingly, but the demons she had been experiencing 312 00:17:51,720 --> 00:17:54,559 were nothing compared to this. She's like, I'd rather be 313 00:17:54,599 --> 00:17:58,799 in the moniella. Honestly, she began to yell, this can't 314 00:17:58,839 --> 00:18:01,279 be my destiny. I'm hungry, I'm cold. This is not 315 00:18:01,319 --> 00:18:04,240 a cure, this is a punishment. On the fifth night, 316 00:18:04,359 --> 00:18:06,319 once the young pastor had left and she was on 317 00:18:06,359 --> 00:18:09,039 her own in the small room, she drank herself as 318 00:18:09,079 --> 00:18:11,839 far as her restraints would let her. Then with her 319 00:18:11,839 --> 00:18:13,880 feet she reached for a machette that was in the 320 00:18:13,920 --> 00:18:16,839 corner of the room. She cut the ropes off, grabbed 321 00:18:16,880 --> 00:18:19,640 the machette and ran out. She was swinging it in 322 00:18:19,680 --> 00:18:22,160 the air, telling them no more and to let her free. 323 00:18:22,640 --> 00:18:25,839 But the congregation was stronger than her and she was outnumbered. 324 00:18:26,400 --> 00:18:29,200 They overpowered her, and now they were sure she was possessed. 325 00:18:29,799 --> 00:18:32,519 That's like their proof. Now, how is that? Your response, like, 326 00:18:32,559 --> 00:18:38,880 you're not feeding her, you're not, you're not, You're repressing 327 00:18:38,920 --> 00:18:41,599 her in the most inhumane way. Of course, she's gonna 328 00:18:41,599 --> 00:18:44,759 fucking swing a machetta at you. Anyone would. Yeah, yeah, 329 00:18:45,359 --> 00:18:47,519 if this is how she reacted to help from God, 330 00:18:47,599 --> 00:18:52,440 of course she was possessed. Ridiculous very. As the men 331 00:18:52,519 --> 00:18:54,640 dragged her back to the room, the pastor stood next 332 00:18:54,680 --> 00:19:00,000 to her and whispered, magnana magna tolsto tomorrow, God will 333 00:19:00,039 --> 00:19:02,519 save you. Tomorrow, this will all be over. Oh my god, 334 00:19:02,559 --> 00:19:04,880 he's planning a killer, isn't he. That's so ominous, Like 335 00:19:04,920 --> 00:19:06,880 what an honest thing to say? Sounds like a threat, 336 00:19:06,920 --> 00:19:10,200 That doesn't sound like what that's supposed to be. Comfort 337 00:19:10,559 --> 00:19:15,480 to confirming. Wow, I can't comforting. Yeah, I'm sorry. Yeah, 338 00:19:15,519 --> 00:19:18,680 I'm forgetting how to talk. Wow. Yeah, we don't record 339 00:19:18,720 --> 00:19:21,880 for two weeks. You know what. It was all the 340 00:19:22,000 --> 00:19:25,480 fatigue from moving and then I got sick immediately after. 341 00:19:26,240 --> 00:19:29,519 I see it. I see it, yeah, be m. I 342 00:19:29,559 --> 00:19:31,400 had no idea what the pastor was referring to, but 343 00:19:31,440 --> 00:19:35,079 it turns out that Juan Da had a divine revelation 344 00:19:35,920 --> 00:19:39,319 on the sixth night. He told the congregation. This divine revelation, 345 00:19:40,160 --> 00:19:46,519 the demons could be expelled through the flames. She will 346 00:19:46,559 --> 00:19:48,759 only be free from this evil if we purify her 347 00:19:48,799 --> 00:19:53,400 in fire. What the fuck? That's again, They're just like 348 00:19:53,480 --> 00:19:55,519 making shit up as they go. I'm trying to think 349 00:19:55,759 --> 00:19:58,920 of the most like depraved shit, Like that's crazy, that's 350 00:19:58,920 --> 00:20:04,839 what happens in these bass. Yes, absolutely don't have compassion 351 00:20:04,880 --> 00:20:06,839 for her, he said, because this is the devil we're 352 00:20:06,839 --> 00:20:10,240 talking about. She must burn from toes to head. She 353 00:20:10,319 --> 00:20:13,240 will die, but she will resussitate free from her torment. 354 00:20:14,119 --> 00:20:18,200 I'm sorry, what the hell? Yeah, And this is like 355 00:20:18,240 --> 00:20:21,000 the case that we talked about, you know, when we 356 00:20:21,039 --> 00:20:24,559 did those yeah series of episodes, but like there was 357 00:20:24,559 --> 00:20:28,000 that crazy not sorry, crazy that's not correct. There was 358 00:20:28,000 --> 00:20:30,119 that lady who was a club I'm finding for my 359 00:20:30,200 --> 00:20:33,440 life to not say crazy episode. I'm like, this is 360 00:20:33,480 --> 00:20:37,599 fucking crazy. It's hard, it's hard. Yeah. But this lady 361 00:20:37,640 --> 00:20:40,400 who you know, was not really she was like a 362 00:20:40,440 --> 00:20:45,200 co leader basically, but she was like exercising a boy 363 00:20:45,480 --> 00:20:47,559 and then like, oh, he'll risk us to state, he'll 364 00:20:47,559 --> 00:20:49,920 resusitate like after we're done, and no, they just like 365 00:20:49,960 --> 00:20:52,240 they killed him like he of course he didn't come 366 00:20:52,279 --> 00:20:55,039 back to life, like please. It also reminds me if 367 00:20:55,079 --> 00:20:58,400 you're in the US. I don't remember the state, probably 368 00:20:58,440 --> 00:21:01,440 somewhere in the midwest South, if I'm being honest, but 369 00:21:01,480 --> 00:21:04,920 I don't remember. In Texas, I don't remember, but there 370 00:21:05,000 --> 00:21:09,440 was this evangelical church that some members had their daughter 371 00:21:09,480 --> 00:21:12,599 I think it was, that died and then the pastor 372 00:21:12,640 --> 00:21:17,000 or whoever some leader kept like swearing like they had 373 00:21:17,160 --> 00:21:19,160 had some vision from God that she would come back 374 00:21:19,160 --> 00:21:21,519 to life and they just need to pray over her. Yeah, 375 00:21:21,559 --> 00:21:24,119 And they prayed over her for I don't know how long, 376 00:21:24,160 --> 00:21:26,240 and obviously she didn't come back to life, of course, 377 00:21:26,440 --> 00:21:28,960 and I don't remember what the outcome like if there was, 378 00:21:29,039 --> 00:21:31,200 I'm assuming there was some kind of criminal proceedings. That's 379 00:21:31,240 --> 00:21:34,200 why we learned about this later. But I don't remember 380 00:21:34,240 --> 00:21:40,319 exactly what happened after. Okay, back to the story. He 381 00:21:40,440 --> 00:21:43,200 ordered members to gather wood for the fire. In the meantime, 382 00:21:43,240 --> 00:21:46,680 Pedro Rocha and Franklin had been tied her down to 383 00:21:46,720 --> 00:21:49,240 a guava tree next to the fire pit that was 384 00:21:49,279 --> 00:21:52,240 being built. The members worked on this over the next 385 00:21:52,279 --> 00:21:56,279 four hours. Vilma had to watch this fire grow until 386 00:21:56,319 --> 00:21:58,359 maybe out of losing patients or who knows what, she 387 00:21:58,480 --> 00:22:05,119 was thrown into the flames by the paser. Oh my god. Well, 388 00:22:05,160 --> 00:22:07,319 to this day, it's not clear she was pushed into 389 00:22:07,359 --> 00:22:10,200 the fire or if the fire had grown so much 390 00:22:10,279 --> 00:22:15,480 that it engulfed her. Either way, horrible. Yeah. Kuandrocha claims 391 00:22:15,480 --> 00:22:19,480 that Vilma levitated herself and fell into the fire. Juan, 392 00:22:19,559 --> 00:22:21,960 I'm gonna need you to shut the fuck up. No 393 00:22:22,759 --> 00:22:28,839 Ena will fite you personally, doesn't watch that she burned 394 00:22:29,599 --> 00:22:31,720 her fifteen year old sister, who had been there the 395 00:22:31,720 --> 00:22:34,000 whole time because she was a member of the church too. 396 00:22:34,480 --> 00:22:36,680 Could hear as her sister cried out again and again, 397 00:22:36,720 --> 00:22:40,799 I'm going to die. I'm going to die. She had 398 00:22:40,839 --> 00:22:43,599 been inside the church praying, and though maybe she smelled 399 00:22:43,599 --> 00:22:45,839 the fire, she had no idea that her sister was 400 00:22:45,880 --> 00:22:49,160 going to be burned alive. She listened in shock and 401 00:22:49,240 --> 00:22:52,279 frozen fear as the leaders of her church repeatedly yelled 402 00:22:52,279 --> 00:22:56,319 that her sister would soon resurrect free from the demons. 403 00:22:56,920 --> 00:22:59,759 She managed to break free from the congregation and ran 404 00:22:59,839 --> 00:23:09,440 to her tia Anhela's house an hour away. Right, that's wild. 405 00:23:11,400 --> 00:23:13,200 Once she got to her tas she cried out, they 406 00:23:13,200 --> 00:23:17,000 burned her. They burned her. Her father, Catalino, her Thea, 407 00:23:17,119 --> 00:23:19,119 and her cousin all followed her back to the church 408 00:23:19,160 --> 00:23:21,880 as fast as he could. It was midday. By the 409 00:23:21,920 --> 00:23:24,200 time they had arrived. The last of the flames were 410 00:23:24,240 --> 00:23:27,680 still flickering, and they found Vilma behind the church, naked 411 00:23:28,039 --> 00:23:32,000 and with burns covering eighty percent of her body. She's 412 00:23:32,079 --> 00:23:36,519 so alive. Wow. She asked for water. Catalino and his 413 00:23:36,559 --> 00:23:39,319 nephew carried Vilma in their arms back to her ta 414 00:23:39,359 --> 00:23:45,400 Anhila's house, again an hour away. Oh my gosh. There 415 00:23:45,440 --> 00:23:48,640 they called for more family members, cousins, siblings, and uncles. 416 00:23:48,880 --> 00:23:51,440 Together they made a stretcher from my hammock and two 417 00:23:51,519 --> 00:23:55,519 poles as they put this together, Vilma reassured her crying 418 00:23:55,599 --> 00:23:59,319 five year old son. She told him los pastorsitos me 419 00:23:59,480 --> 00:24:03,359 about these on the little pastors baptized me. Oh my god, 420 00:24:03,440 --> 00:24:08,680 I can't even imagine the trauma of this five year old. 421 00:24:09,160 --> 00:24:15,039 And also then in your brain cementing these two things together, 422 00:24:16,000 --> 00:24:22,079 your burned mother and baptism, yeap, oh my god. Also 423 00:24:22,319 --> 00:24:24,960 I forgot to put it in the notes. But these 424 00:24:25,000 --> 00:24:31,119 people waited basically because like her husband, she has two kids, right, 425 00:24:31,200 --> 00:24:32,960 one is the five year old, and then there's a 426 00:24:33,000 --> 00:24:37,359 younger daughter with her current husband. They waited until he 427 00:24:37,640 --> 00:24:41,599 and the younger daughter were gone visiting his mom because 428 00:24:41,599 --> 00:24:44,720 it was helping his mom get better. And they basically 429 00:24:44,799 --> 00:24:48,920 waited for that to happen to like do the worst 430 00:24:48,960 --> 00:24:52,440 of what they did. Oh wow, like it was when 431 00:24:52,480 --> 00:24:55,000 he was gone, that was gone. Let burn her, Oh 432 00:24:55,079 --> 00:24:59,960 my god. Once they made the stretcher, the family members 433 00:25:00,119 --> 00:25:04,559 took turns carrying her for twelve hours through rivers, muddy paths, 434 00:25:04,640 --> 00:25:09,640 and the rainforests. When they finally reached the hospital in Rosita, 435 00:25:09,720 --> 00:25:12,319 the doctors were shocked at the state of Vilma's body. 436 00:25:13,000 --> 00:25:15,240 They had to send her to the main hospital in Managua, 437 00:25:15,279 --> 00:25:17,240 but first she had to be taken to an airport 438 00:25:17,279 --> 00:25:22,200 twenty miles away from Rosita and then flown to the capitol. Sadly, 439 00:25:22,279 --> 00:25:25,359 by the time she arrived it was too late. Of course, 440 00:25:25,400 --> 00:25:27,640 all the time in the distance that they had to 441 00:25:27,680 --> 00:25:30,319 travel just to get there, and then she still needed more. 442 00:25:31,559 --> 00:25:36,119 The fact that she remained alive for so long after 443 00:25:36,519 --> 00:25:42,559 is it's wild yeah. Vilma Trujillo died on February twenty eight, 444 00:25:42,640 --> 00:25:47,440 twenty seventeen, from pulmonary edema because of the swelling from 445 00:25:47,440 --> 00:25:50,680 the burns. Her lungs were filling with blood, and she 446 00:25:50,759 --> 00:25:56,720 also had multiple organ failure. It's terrible, yeah. After her death, 447 00:25:56,799 --> 00:25:59,920 reports flooded into Rosita, where Juan Rocha and his brother 448 00:26:00,119 --> 00:26:02,680 were sitting in the back of a pickup truck. They 449 00:26:02,720 --> 00:26:05,880 were now in police custody. A reporter asked, why did 450 00:26:05,880 --> 00:26:08,799 you burn her? But Juandro insisted that the spirit lifted 451 00:26:08,799 --> 00:26:11,759 her up and she fell into the fire. While ju 452 00:26:12,359 --> 00:26:15,240 maintained this version of events, his brother in law, Franklin 453 00:26:15,319 --> 00:26:18,319 had Kin, also in police custody, claimed that Vilma had 454 00:26:18,319 --> 00:26:21,279 committed an error, that she had a life partner and 455 00:26:21,319 --> 00:26:25,160 she committed a mistake with another man. So is Franklin 456 00:26:25,279 --> 00:26:29,680 saying that Vilma cheated on her partner and that's why 457 00:26:29,720 --> 00:26:33,119 she became demonic. Yes, that's why she became possessed. 458 00:26:41,880 --> 00:27:04,200 Speaker 2: Ok Moniamonia rapp is all you can open as a girl, 459 00:27:04,240 --> 00:27:11,440 the one prog com process you are now okay you 460 00:27:12,559 --> 00:27:16,440 I can all of them and the rectiva and what. 461 00:27:16,599 --> 00:27:26,519 Speaker 3: A personal RECTI them. There's a quem h h is 462 00:27:26,559 --> 00:27:28,920 gonna practice a similar com maala. 463 00:27:29,079 --> 00:27:38,319 Speaker 2: No no no no in the manalment and a super bient. 464 00:27:41,200 --> 00:27:44,440 Speaker 3: People can as a car. You're following my attament and 465 00:27:44,640 --> 00:27:51,400 grander and can you come on a camera rap create okay, 466 00:27:51,519 --> 00:28:04,720 present that came persent you okay, yeah, that's a ut 467 00:28:06,160 --> 00:28:15,759 and the man will okay, then. 468 00:28:16,039 --> 00:28:26,759 Speaker 4: Come young roll and for com comment yeah yeah you 469 00:28:26,799 --> 00:28:40,799 know and American themn MA man, yeah young okay. 470 00:28:42,400 --> 00:28:42,799 Speaker 3: The number and. 471 00:28:44,599 --> 00:28:56,000 Speaker 4: Come frankly Franklin. Franklin, put y you are by some. 472 00:28:57,640 --> 00:28:58,000 Speaker 2: To mar. 473 00:28:59,559 --> 00:29:09,599 Speaker 4: Does a person. 474 00:29:10,319 --> 00:29:14,400 Speaker 1: Basically they're saying what we just said in Spanish. Okay. 475 00:29:15,440 --> 00:29:18,000 In reality, it's likely that Vilma had been raped by 476 00:29:18,039 --> 00:29:20,799 a man. This is all lleged, but could be what 477 00:29:20,880 --> 00:29:24,640 led to her mental breakdown, because this is alleged. It 478 00:29:24,680 --> 00:29:27,920 was never investigated, but there were rumors, but no one 479 00:29:27,960 --> 00:29:30,599 will ever know what was disturbing Vilma a week before 480 00:29:30,640 --> 00:29:34,799 her gruesome murder. The rumors, which can't be proven now, 481 00:29:35,000 --> 00:29:37,240 were that she had been drugged and raped by the 482 00:29:37,319 --> 00:29:40,319 local curandero, the very same one who was giving her 483 00:29:40,319 --> 00:29:43,200 the drink that her family believed was making her crazy, 484 00:29:44,039 --> 00:29:48,559 and that the church took this rape as adultery. Juandrocha Pedro, 485 00:29:48,640 --> 00:29:53,559 Jose Tomasa, Franklin Harkin, and the fifth congregation member, Esneeda 486 00:29:53,640 --> 00:29:57,799 Orosco were all charged with various things, including kidnapping and murder. 487 00:29:58,599 --> 00:30:01,240 The trial was held in Mana, and those who attended 488 00:30:01,279 --> 00:30:05,079 stated none of the five looked remorseful. Of course they didn't. 489 00:30:05,200 --> 00:30:10,759 Of course, God was on their side, according to them, exactly, Oh, 490 00:30:10,799 --> 00:30:13,160 that reminds me of this inferiiting phrase I read and 491 00:30:13,240 --> 00:30:18,920 the flower traveled in my blood? What I was or 492 00:30:18,960 --> 00:30:22,319 was someone else? It was either Videla or one of 493 00:30:22,359 --> 00:30:25,839 the other top military people. During one of their trials, 494 00:30:26,240 --> 00:30:28,799 said basically that they felt no remorse because God was 495 00:30:28,839 --> 00:30:32,599 on their side. Basically, it's what they said. Of course. 496 00:30:35,599 --> 00:30:38,440 On May ninth, the judge sentenced all five was thirty 497 00:30:38,519 --> 00:30:41,559 to thirty six years, stating they acted with treachery and 498 00:30:41,640 --> 00:30:45,119 abuse of confidence. The Assembly of God church has stated 499 00:30:45,160 --> 00:30:47,720 they did not have a pastor named Juandrocha and that 500 00:30:47,759 --> 00:30:50,279 the media began to use the word pastor, but Juan 501 00:30:50,400 --> 00:30:53,440 was more of a lay preacher, and although the Vision 502 00:30:53,519 --> 00:30:56,799 Telestian Church in El Cortstal was part of the Assemblies 503 00:30:56,799 --> 00:31:00,000 of God, it was not an organized church in Morelane, 504 00:31:00,119 --> 00:31:04,640 a potential future church, so clearly trying to distance themselves 505 00:31:04,640 --> 00:31:07,240 from the situation, trying to be like, oh no, that 506 00:31:07,359 --> 00:31:09,799 wasn't a real preacher of ours, a real pastor of ours, 507 00:31:09,839 --> 00:31:11,960 like it wasn't our fault, and then trying to be 508 00:31:12,039 --> 00:31:15,039 like that wasn't even like a real like partner of 509 00:31:15,039 --> 00:31:17,240 ours or church of ours. It was like they were 510 00:31:18,200 --> 00:31:21,960 en an upcoming affiliate or something like that. Yeah. When 511 00:31:21,960 --> 00:31:25,200 the superintendent of the Assemblies of God in Nicaragua was 512 00:31:25,279 --> 00:31:28,240 questioned by journalist Vicki Baker, he lost his patients and 513 00:31:28,279 --> 00:31:31,359 snapped while he said, in over one hundred years, nothing 514 00:31:31,400 --> 00:31:33,720 like this has happened before, and why don't you mention 515 00:31:33,799 --> 00:31:35,759 the good things we do, like build houses and run 516 00:31:35,759 --> 00:31:39,720 schools for the death I'm sure they had some other issue, 517 00:31:39,720 --> 00:31:41,920 maybe nothing to this extent, but I'm sure they're not 518 00:31:42,000 --> 00:31:45,839 of no, no, no, maybe nothing as this public in 519 00:31:45,880 --> 00:31:51,359 this specific town. But these kind of cases are more 520 00:31:51,400 --> 00:31:58,079 than common within churches that are affiliated with the evangelical 521 00:31:58,319 --> 00:32:04,599 or a evangelical church. So also, the same superintendent has 522 00:32:04,599 --> 00:32:07,640 expressed sympathy for the five perpetrators and that their sentences 523 00:32:07,680 --> 00:32:13,279 are too long. They burned a woman what do you mean, yeah, yeah, 524 00:32:13,400 --> 00:32:18,440 before and that they burned her after starving her, starving 525 00:32:18,440 --> 00:32:22,720 her and keeping water from her tied for five days. 526 00:32:22,920 --> 00:32:27,119 Oh my god, he said, In my opinion, this young 527 00:32:27,160 --> 00:32:29,599 person might have thrown herself into the fire, because I 528 00:32:29,680 --> 00:32:31,759 don't believe that five people who are praying are going 529 00:32:31,799 --> 00:32:34,240 to all agree to draw someone into a fire. Well, 530 00:32:34,279 --> 00:32:37,920 then you're a dumb bitch. This is the superintendent of 531 00:32:37,960 --> 00:32:43,440 the Assemblies of God churches in Nicaragua. Mm hmmm. He 532 00:32:43,519 --> 00:32:45,759 even went on to say that there's plenty of evidence 533 00:32:45,880 --> 00:32:49,000 that that crazy woman did it to herself. Bitch, I 534 00:32:49,039 --> 00:32:53,039 will fight you too. What is the superintendent's name here? 535 00:32:53,160 --> 00:32:56,119 It's so I'm gonna put our sources in the show notes. 536 00:32:56,200 --> 00:33:02,559 But this is from bayez Oh. I get so much 537 00:33:02,559 --> 00:33:05,039 info from them, yes, but also the BBC also put 538 00:33:05,119 --> 00:33:11,559 it on there. So it's this article this big, it's 539 00:33:11,559 --> 00:33:14,200 like a very long piece on BBC. Well you'll see 540 00:33:14,200 --> 00:33:17,440 the lean it's BBC dot CO dot UK and then 541 00:33:17,440 --> 00:33:24,759 it says nikaiwa exorcism. But this superintendent to name is 542 00:33:25,839 --> 00:33:30,240 Raphael Arista, that is the superintendent of the Assemblies of 543 00:33:30,240 --> 00:33:34,519 God in Nicaragua, who set all this nonsense. Although in 544 00:33:34,559 --> 00:33:36,720 the same article, if you look into it, you'll see 545 00:33:36,759 --> 00:33:40,400 that while that's like the position of like the main 546 00:33:40,480 --> 00:33:45,920 guy of this church, there was another pastor who where 547 00:33:45,920 --> 00:33:49,440 did it go? Hold on? Okay? Because yeah, after she 548 00:33:50,400 --> 00:33:53,640 this went public, there was protests and they were throwing 549 00:33:53,720 --> 00:33:56,799 like rocks at the Church of Assemblies, Church of the 550 00:33:56,799 --> 00:34:00,319 Assemblies of God in Rosita, and they were throwing and 551 00:34:00,319 --> 00:34:04,519 stuff in there, and the pastor there, his name is Sabakarees, 552 00:34:05,000 --> 00:34:09,480 and he was like, how did one of them not 553 00:34:09,679 --> 00:34:13,480 step back and say this is not right? Yes? And 554 00:34:13,639 --> 00:34:16,920 he he also concedes that Vima is likely to have 555 00:34:16,960 --> 00:34:19,800 been mentally ill rather than controlled by the devil, and 556 00:34:19,840 --> 00:34:23,079 that there was no need for an exorcism. So it 557 00:34:23,119 --> 00:34:26,760 seems that like at least someone within this church is 558 00:34:27,559 --> 00:34:34,320 not terrible. Yeah. Wow. While the evangelical church in Nicaragua 559 00:34:34,400 --> 00:34:37,280 has tried to blame Vima herself for her murder, human 560 00:34:37,360 --> 00:34:39,719 rights activists in the country have made sure to call 561 00:34:39,760 --> 00:34:44,320 this what it was, not just murder but femicide. Muriel Lutierez, 562 00:34:44,400 --> 00:34:46,880 who works for a human rights organization in Rosita, has 563 00:34:46,920 --> 00:34:50,079 stated that Evilma had been a man, Juan Rocha would 564 00:34:50,119 --> 00:34:52,239 not have felt entitled to do what he had done, 565 00:34:52,880 --> 00:34:56,960 And I agree because really it's right. Technically, the official 566 00:34:57,360 --> 00:34:59,639 what falls undro a femicide is like a woman murdered 567 00:34:59,639 --> 00:35:02,280 by someone an intimate in an intimate relationship with her. 568 00:35:02,960 --> 00:35:05,880 But to activists in the country, they're like, even though 569 00:35:05,920 --> 00:35:11,000 that doesn't fully apply, it kind of does because it's 570 00:35:11,039 --> 00:35:13,440 kind of still a famoside because this would have never 571 00:35:13,440 --> 00:35:19,719 happened to a man. Yeah. And also the unconfirmed reason 572 00:35:20,119 --> 00:35:23,000 that they felt they needed to do this is because 573 00:35:23,199 --> 00:35:26,880 supposedly she stepped out of the marriage. In reality, most 574 00:35:26,920 --> 00:35:29,920 likely she was assaulted and to them, that was her 575 00:35:29,960 --> 00:35:35,199 sin that made her possess which then not entitled them, 576 00:35:35,239 --> 00:35:39,920 but like that was their reason, that was their reason. Yeah. Also, 577 00:35:40,360 --> 00:35:44,000 I read another interview and I think it's I don't 578 00:35:44,039 --> 00:35:46,280 think I saved it, but there was an interview in 579 00:35:46,280 --> 00:35:48,679 Spanish with the husband and he was like, I feel 580 00:35:48,679 --> 00:35:52,280 like the pastor was like the cause of the fights 581 00:35:52,440 --> 00:35:55,119 that Vitamam was coming home and starting to pick fights 582 00:35:55,159 --> 00:35:57,960 with her husband, and the husband was like very wary 583 00:35:58,119 --> 00:36:03,119 of juandrochat if he was trying to drive awedge between 584 00:36:03,119 --> 00:36:08,039 them or yes, for nefarious purposes. I'm like, maybe hinting 585 00:36:08,079 --> 00:36:12,800 at this pastor was like trying to get with Villema 586 00:36:13,639 --> 00:36:15,840 and then when it didn't work, or maybe this was 587 00:36:15,880 --> 00:36:17,960 his chance to cure her and then you know who 588 00:36:18,000 --> 00:36:21,119 knows honestly, Yeah, it's not far fetched. I don't think No, 589 00:36:21,239 --> 00:36:25,559 I don't think so. And yeah, that was that was 590 00:36:25,599 --> 00:36:29,599 the case. Wow, that was intense. It was intense. And 591 00:36:29,639 --> 00:36:35,840 it's not in like our notes anywhere, but religious violence 592 00:36:36,000 --> 00:36:39,599 or violence toward women in the name of religion has 593 00:36:39,719 --> 00:36:44,519 like gotten a lot worse in recent years in Nikarawa 594 00:36:44,679 --> 00:36:47,239 because it really Yeah, it's this in the same article 595 00:36:47,280 --> 00:36:54,880 I was reading, So where is this? Yeah, somewhere in 596 00:36:54,880 --> 00:36:59,000 that article it says that it has grown, but I'm 597 00:36:59,000 --> 00:37:02,519 going to read this section here. In twenty fourteen came 598 00:37:02,559 --> 00:37:06,519 a further setback for women's rights campaigners. President Daniel Ortega 599 00:37:06,679 --> 00:37:09,760 issued a decree widening the role of community groups and 600 00:37:09,880 --> 00:37:14,039 resolving domestic disputes, making it even more difficult for women 601 00:37:14,199 --> 00:37:18,920 to press criminal charges. Overall, the message seems clear, deal 602 00:37:18,960 --> 00:37:21,119 with it or get your community to deal with it. 603 00:37:21,400 --> 00:37:25,480 The country's sand Nistan government has become increasingly religious since 604 00:37:25,480 --> 00:37:29,639 its revolutionary days, and since that has been happening, the 605 00:37:31,679 --> 00:37:34,760 more laws that have passed, like abortion take it away 606 00:37:34,760 --> 00:37:38,039 women's rights, and then the more like violence towards women 607 00:37:38,079 --> 00:37:40,880 has grown, and it's an issue like femicides or issue 608 00:37:40,920 --> 00:37:45,360 all over the world, but like Latin America also, and 609 00:37:45,440 --> 00:37:49,119 so that is kind of informing this whole case, and 610 00:37:49,159 --> 00:37:53,159 it's important, I feel to note that that is the 611 00:37:53,159 --> 00:37:56,639 context of all this, which is a lot like again, 612 00:37:56,960 --> 00:38:00,440 so many I listened to like a couple other episodes 613 00:38:00,519 --> 00:38:03,000 talking about this, and these episodes are like fifteen minutes 614 00:38:03,000 --> 00:38:06,960 long because they're not even like the one is exploring 615 00:38:07,000 --> 00:38:11,760 the context in which like this violence is normalized and okay, right, 616 00:38:12,119 --> 00:38:16,960 like this violence toward women which Vima is a victim of, 617 00:38:17,559 --> 00:38:20,440 mm hmm. It's that in a lot of these places 618 00:38:20,480 --> 00:38:22,639 doesn't even count as violence because it's like it's just 619 00:38:22,679 --> 00:38:26,039 so normal. Yeah, and that's it. That's all I wanted 620 00:38:26,079 --> 00:38:28,760 to say. My voice is giving up. Oh and yeah, 621 00:38:28,800 --> 00:38:33,480 and then like even the whole evangelical aspect of this, 622 00:38:33,760 --> 00:38:39,599 like it has a long tie with colonization, as does 623 00:38:39,719 --> 00:38:47,000 violence against women. So yeah, and then another, I mean 624 00:38:47,000 --> 00:38:49,840 we already talked a little bit about the CIA pushing 625 00:38:50,159 --> 00:38:52,239 right vangelical church in Latin America. 626 00:38:52,440 --> 00:38:52,599 Speaker 4: But. 627 00:38:54,800 --> 00:38:58,480 Speaker 1: Evangelical or like more, I mean Mormon falls onto evangelical 628 00:38:58,559 --> 00:39:03,519 right Mormonism, the Mormon tent. They're like like a branch Christianity. Okay, 629 00:39:03,920 --> 00:39:09,280 these form these churches that send people into these remote areas. 630 00:39:09,280 --> 00:39:13,079 What is that called pratell ties or something like that? 631 00:39:13,119 --> 00:39:15,400 Howl long, Yeah, I never know how to pronounce. They 632 00:39:15,440 --> 00:39:17,719 go and they have their little missions and missionaries. 633 00:39:17,800 --> 00:39:18,000 Speaker 2: You know. 634 00:39:20,360 --> 00:39:24,519 Speaker 1: That is akin to modern day colonization. And I highly 635 00:39:24,559 --> 00:39:27,679 suggest everyone reads, not only because we love her, but 636 00:39:27,920 --> 00:39:31,880 because it's such an important book. But for brown girls, 637 00:39:32,119 --> 00:39:35,920 oh sorry, really quick, it's called Procella tides when they 638 00:39:36,239 --> 00:39:41,199 go and try to convert into their religion. The book 639 00:39:41,480 --> 00:39:46,239 is called Four Brown Girls with Sharp Bitges and Tender Hearts. Yes, 640 00:39:46,280 --> 00:39:51,039 and Tender Hearts by so her book, she talks about 641 00:39:51,079 --> 00:39:54,599 she is from Nicarawa, and she talks about how like 642 00:39:55,320 --> 00:39:58,440 her first memories are these like missionaries coming and there's 643 00:39:58,440 --> 00:40:01,199 some of them like that did whatever good they were 644 00:40:01,199 --> 00:40:04,639 there to do without taking pictures, without trying to convert anyone, 645 00:40:04,679 --> 00:40:06,719 And those were like that, so real good people. But 646 00:40:06,760 --> 00:40:10,079 then there was the people who went and they they 647 00:40:10,159 --> 00:40:13,360 gave these things but demanded something in return, and many 648 00:40:13,400 --> 00:40:18,400 times that was photo ops that would look good back home. 649 00:40:18,559 --> 00:40:24,119 But also they demanded their faith, they demanded their conversion. 650 00:40:24,679 --> 00:40:28,559 And then maybe when you know, that's when things can 651 00:40:28,559 --> 00:40:31,920 get a little dangerous because these are very controlling, high 652 00:40:32,000 --> 00:40:43,199 control organizations that are very sexist. Yeah, so that's all that, 653 00:40:43,280 --> 00:40:47,840 I think all that informs this case. Yeah, and everyone 654 00:40:47,840 --> 00:40:49,480 should read that book because she talks about it in 655 00:40:49,480 --> 00:40:52,360 the first free chapters. It's amazing it is, and it's 656 00:40:52,400 --> 00:40:56,000 also yeah, it's just amazing. So is theas and Prima's 657 00:40:56,079 --> 00:40:59,360 unknowing and loving the Woman who raised us. Yes, another 658 00:40:59,400 --> 00:41:05,239 amazing book. But yeah, all these things you know, ti 659 00:41:05,320 --> 00:41:08,079 in when looking at something as horrible as what happened 660 00:41:08,079 --> 00:41:11,119 to Villa Matriquillo, that which didn't need to happen That's 661 00:41:11,159 --> 00:41:14,400 why I feel like I'm not picky because you know, 662 00:41:14,440 --> 00:41:18,159 you did the true crime notes, but I no, But 663 00:41:18,280 --> 00:41:20,880 I present to you a case and then you tell me, no, 664 00:41:21,039 --> 00:41:24,239 this has no like, this is not this is just sensational, 665 00:41:24,320 --> 00:41:27,599 like this isn't Yeah, there's nothing behind this. So I 666 00:41:27,639 --> 00:41:30,920 am picky about what because for me, I feel like 667 00:41:31,079 --> 00:41:34,360 true crime doesn't exist on its own, in its own 668 00:41:34,400 --> 00:41:37,480 vacuum with nothing else infecting it, right, it exists in 669 00:41:37,519 --> 00:41:44,440 the world of sexism, of racism, of all the isms. Basically. Yeah, 670 00:41:44,480 --> 00:41:46,480 And that's why, like in the beginning, I think maybe 671 00:41:46,480 --> 00:41:49,000 I did pick like these more, which is whine you're 672 00:41:49,000 --> 00:41:51,159 living you learn you know what? I yes, exactly, thank you, 673 00:41:52,719 --> 00:41:55,480 But yeah, I and even if it's not specifically having 674 00:41:55,519 --> 00:41:58,719 to do that, like those things are always in our minds. 675 00:41:58,800 --> 00:42:01,320 So like, I feel like we always make a point 676 00:42:01,320 --> 00:42:03,519 to talk about those aspects when it comes to a 677 00:42:03,599 --> 00:42:07,239 true crime case because I feel like you can't talk 678 00:42:07,239 --> 00:42:09,920 about just the crime in the perpetrator and the victim 679 00:42:09,920 --> 00:42:13,760 by itself. Like we live in society. That's I say, 680 00:42:13,880 --> 00:42:18,360 things in that society, yeah, are always affecting what is happening, 681 00:42:19,519 --> 00:42:22,000 even when it comes to the perpetrators of violence. Oh yeah, 682 00:42:22,039 --> 00:42:27,400 which no one wants to hear, but whatever. Yeah, yeah, 683 00:42:27,440 --> 00:42:30,960 but yeah, I guess it's a place to wrap up 684 00:42:31,000 --> 00:42:33,239 and move on to a recommendation. Yes, let's take a 685 00:42:33,239 --> 00:42:35,199 little break here and then we'll come back with spooky 686 00:42:35,199 --> 00:42:47,000 recommendations and we're back. Do you want to go first? Yeah? 687 00:42:47,320 --> 00:42:53,079 I finally watched the show Laid on Peacock And is 688 00:42:53,119 --> 00:42:54,519 this spooky? 689 00:42:54,760 --> 00:42:55,119 Speaker 2: Sort of? 690 00:42:55,360 --> 00:43:01,199 Speaker 1: Because well, tell me, I only watched one episode. Oh really, okay, 691 00:43:01,199 --> 00:43:04,239 well the show I think it involves a curse, so 692 00:43:04,280 --> 00:43:07,440 that's why it's yes, spooky, you're right, you're right. Yeah, 693 00:43:07,480 --> 00:43:13,360 So I forgot everyone's characters named already, but the main character, yeah, 694 00:43:13,360 --> 00:43:18,760 I don't remember anyone's names. Basically, she finds out that 695 00:43:19,559 --> 00:43:22,199 anyone that she has slept with or hooked up with 696 00:43:22,239 --> 00:43:25,320 in any sexual way is dying. They're dying in the 697 00:43:25,440 --> 00:43:28,239 order that she has hooked up with them, and then 698 00:43:28,360 --> 00:43:30,320 her and her best friend you know, are trying to 699 00:43:30,320 --> 00:43:33,039 solve this and figure out what's going on. That's basically 700 00:43:33,119 --> 00:43:36,280 what it's about. But it's also about their friendship. And 701 00:43:36,280 --> 00:43:40,199 our main character is a horrible person, honestly. Yeah, And 702 00:43:40,280 --> 00:43:43,119 I love watching shows about horrible people. That's true, we 703 00:43:43,519 --> 00:43:46,960 both do. She's so selfish, and you know what, you 704 00:43:47,000 --> 00:43:48,599 know why I think I like shows like that because 705 00:43:48,639 --> 00:43:50,079 deep down, that's the way that I am, and I 706 00:43:50,079 --> 00:43:52,000 had to fight every day to not be like that. 707 00:43:52,039 --> 00:43:57,000 It's the truth. I'm just gonna admit it. No, yeah, same, yeah, yeah, 708 00:43:57,119 --> 00:44:01,320 when it comes to every day's a battle to be 709 00:44:01,360 --> 00:44:06,599 a decent person because deep down I am horrible. Yes, yeah, 710 00:44:06,599 --> 00:44:11,039 it is my true nature. And the main character is 711 00:44:11,119 --> 00:44:16,280 truly horrible, and so she has hurt a lot of people, 712 00:44:17,800 --> 00:44:21,000 and so it's also her confronting herself and her behaviors. 713 00:44:22,119 --> 00:44:24,400 I love when people are forced to confront their behaviors. 714 00:44:24,840 --> 00:44:28,079 She literally is because people are dying. Yeah, people are 715 00:44:28,199 --> 00:44:33,119 dying him. But it's funny. It was good. I liked it. 716 00:44:33,199 --> 00:44:35,840 I recommend it. I gotta finish watching it. Yeah, but 717 00:44:35,880 --> 00:44:37,800 there's only one season, and I'm hoping it's not one 718 00:44:37,840 --> 00:44:39,920 of those times where they don't do a second season. 719 00:44:40,360 --> 00:44:42,320 I forgot to check when what year came out, because 720 00:44:42,320 --> 00:44:44,039 I'm like, how much time has passed in the first season. 721 00:44:45,159 --> 00:44:49,119 I really no, that doesn't give me hope because I 722 00:44:49,159 --> 00:44:51,239 wanted to see the rest because at the end because 723 00:44:51,280 --> 00:44:53,679 she is strange from her dad, and at the end, 724 00:44:53,719 --> 00:44:58,880 her dad comes to her and he's like, this happened 725 00:44:58,880 --> 00:45:01,320 to me too, And I think that is a reason. 726 00:45:01,360 --> 00:45:06,920 Sorry spoilers, I think that's a reason why he became 727 00:45:06,960 --> 00:45:09,599 a strained from her because her mom died. Because everyone 728 00:45:09,639 --> 00:45:11,920 that the dad has the same thing happened to him. 729 00:45:11,920 --> 00:45:13,679 And so I'm like, I would love to see what's next, 730 00:45:13,719 --> 00:45:15,199 but I don't know if there's gonna be a second 731 00:45:15,239 --> 00:45:20,320 I don't know. Yeah, but it was a good show. 732 00:45:20,360 --> 00:45:23,320 I think I think our listeners would enjoy it because 733 00:45:23,320 --> 00:45:25,920 there's also like a true true crime aspect to it 734 00:45:25,960 --> 00:45:29,039 where the best friend is upsessed with true crime. Okay, okay, 735 00:45:29,599 --> 00:45:38,000 I'll have to check this out finish like it. Yeah, yeah, 736 00:45:38,199 --> 00:45:40,800 I have a speaking recommendation, which oh my god, did 737 00:45:40,880 --> 00:45:45,239 I already recommend it The Buffalo Hunter Hunter. You talked 738 00:45:45,239 --> 00:45:46,880 about it, but you hadn't finished reading it a yet 739 00:45:47,280 --> 00:45:50,760 or listening to it. Okay, Oh yeah, because Susta it 740 00:45:50,840 --> 00:45:52,480 was the book club pick. But then I had to 741 00:45:52,519 --> 00:45:55,840 miss it because I was in the middle, in the 742 00:45:55,880 --> 00:45:59,960 midst of moving, in the trenches of moving, so I 743 00:46:00,039 --> 00:46:02,000 didn't get to attend the book club meeting. But I 744 00:46:02,039 --> 00:46:04,960 did finish the book, but I reading Retreat and then 745 00:46:04,960 --> 00:46:08,400 I also sent Save You're Sorry the podcast they share 746 00:46:08,519 --> 00:46:11,239 medias I listened to your recommendation. I sent it to 747 00:46:11,280 --> 00:46:13,239 them as well. Yeah again, and I needed to tell 748 00:46:13,280 --> 00:46:18,880 everyone about the book. But yes, the book is amazing. First, 749 00:46:18,920 --> 00:46:21,039 I think we might have said it here or when 750 00:46:21,039 --> 00:46:24,320 we talked about Sinners on Patreon with MJ. But vampires 751 00:46:24,320 --> 00:46:30,159 are having their moment, and yes that is a recession indicator. Yeah, 752 00:46:30,199 --> 00:46:32,760 and the Buffalo Hunter Hunter is one of my new 753 00:46:32,840 --> 00:46:36,840 favorite vampire media. I can't wait to reading. You will 754 00:46:36,960 --> 00:46:39,039 on my list. You will absolutely love it, you know. 755 00:46:39,119 --> 00:46:41,119 And I loved his other book. The only other one 756 00:46:41,159 --> 00:46:44,039 I've listened to is The Only Good Indians and that 757 00:46:44,119 --> 00:46:46,840 was amazing. That's on my TVR as well. I haven't 758 00:46:46,840 --> 00:46:50,840 read it, but I did the audiobook, not the book. 759 00:46:50,840 --> 00:46:52,719 The audiobook production amazing. 760 00:46:53,199 --> 00:46:53,320 Speaker 2: Well. 761 00:46:53,440 --> 00:46:55,239 Speaker 1: I did the same for The Only Good Indians, and 762 00:46:55,280 --> 00:46:57,639 I've heard I feel I feel like a lot of 763 00:46:57,679 --> 00:47:02,599 people either love Steep what is it, Stephen Graham, Jon Yes, 764 00:47:02,800 --> 00:47:05,000 or they hate them or they hate them. And I'm 765 00:47:05,039 --> 00:47:08,039 in the camp of love. But most people that don't 766 00:47:08,079 --> 00:47:10,480 like to read his books. They like listening to them. 767 00:47:10,559 --> 00:47:19,079 So interesting. Interesting, said, but yeah, the audiobook is so good. 768 00:47:19,159 --> 00:47:25,199 It follows. So there's three timelines, well, sort of three perspectives. 769 00:47:25,400 --> 00:47:26,679 I think I'm about to read it because I have 770 00:47:26,719 --> 00:47:30,000 a hard time listening. Well, it's easy, I think. I 771 00:47:30,039 --> 00:47:33,920 think it's easier because they're different narrators. Oh okay, then yeah, 772 00:47:33,920 --> 00:47:37,440 I could do it. It follows. So it's a pastor, like, 773 00:47:37,519 --> 00:47:42,440 it's in twenty twelve. I want to say it's twenty fourteen. No, 774 00:47:42,519 --> 00:47:45,480 it is twenty twelve. The present day timeline in twenty 775 00:47:45,559 --> 00:47:49,480 twelve is the she's a professor. She is the ends 776 00:47:49,519 --> 00:47:53,199 up being a descendant of the nineteen twelve timeline, which 777 00:47:53,239 --> 00:47:56,960 is a pastor. I love a timeline. Yes, I love 778 00:47:57,559 --> 00:48:02,079 family members in different generations. Yeah, one hundred years apart. 779 00:48:02,119 --> 00:48:05,119 I love that. Yeah. And so her dissertation is trying 780 00:48:05,119 --> 00:48:10,119 to transcribe this journal of her descendant in nineteen twelve. 781 00:48:10,679 --> 00:48:12,960 I'm sorry to keep cutting you off. I feel like, 782 00:48:14,639 --> 00:48:18,880 what is the new book? Why did I want to 783 00:48:18,880 --> 00:48:20,639 say the enchanted? And I'm like, I know that's wrong. 784 00:48:21,599 --> 00:48:24,679 Close though, I feel like the Bewitching is going to 785 00:48:24,719 --> 00:48:27,000 be kind of like this because I know it's like 786 00:48:27,400 --> 00:48:31,239 has those academia by vibes. It does have academic vibes 787 00:48:31,559 --> 00:48:36,719 like you said, And there is timeline also generations fectives. Yeah, 788 00:48:36,920 --> 00:48:41,039 so okay, and you know we are suckers for different timelines, 789 00:48:41,599 --> 00:48:44,800 yes we are. And so yeah, that's why this book 790 00:48:44,840 --> 00:48:47,880 was amazing already, so that there's that famidle connection. But 791 00:48:47,960 --> 00:48:50,679 also it's in the midst of these atrocities that happened 792 00:48:50,679 --> 00:48:54,400 in nineteen two, all these massacres, and again there's a 793 00:48:54,480 --> 00:49:02,679 vampire and basically the pastor is worse to reckon with 794 00:49:03,119 --> 00:49:07,440 his past, and there's like a twist in the end 795 00:49:07,440 --> 00:49:10,199 that I was just I was floored. Oh my god, 796 00:49:11,079 --> 00:49:13,679 it's so good, Like I want you to finish. I 797 00:49:13,719 --> 00:49:16,679 want you to so we can yap about it. Yes, okay, 798 00:49:16,800 --> 00:49:20,440 maybe i'll listen to it after I well, I'm listening 799 00:49:20,519 --> 00:49:25,079 to Cackle by Rachel Harrison and then my hold for 800 00:49:25,480 --> 00:49:28,639 every One is gone from here. Oh yeah, I know 801 00:49:28,679 --> 00:49:30,840 that one. Yeah, came through nineteen three of the two 802 00:49:30,880 --> 00:49:33,639 I need to listen to and then okay, yes we 803 00:49:33,679 --> 00:49:35,960 need to yap about it. I missed the Soustal Book 804 00:49:35,960 --> 00:49:38,719 Club discussion, so I need to talk about it somewhere 805 00:49:38,840 --> 00:49:41,360 I need It's like, I'm frowding at the mouth. You 806 00:49:41,400 --> 00:49:46,920 need to discuss this, need to discuss the recap debrief, Yes, exactly. Yeah. 807 00:49:47,360 --> 00:49:51,400 Also another thing we need to yap about is sibling 808 00:49:51,440 --> 00:49:56,800 horror media that falls under sibling horror for Patreon. So 809 00:49:57,320 --> 00:49:59,119 I've been on our list begging you to do this 810 00:49:59,159 --> 00:50:00,719 for like a week. But again, I was in the 811 00:50:00,719 --> 00:50:02,920 middle of movie and it was impossible. Yeah, it was 812 00:50:02,920 --> 00:50:04,280 my fault. We could in and I was like, hey, 813 00:50:04,280 --> 00:50:06,599 we need to do this, and I was like, okay, 814 00:50:07,760 --> 00:50:10,159 she just don't have remikes on Earth, but okay, yeah, 815 00:50:10,199 --> 00:50:12,280 I know, I know. Also, yeah, I had plans. I 816 00:50:12,280 --> 00:50:14,159 also had a plan for another Patreon episode that we 817 00:50:14,159 --> 00:50:17,960 were going to record and then maybe next week. Either way, 818 00:50:18,239 --> 00:50:21,400 these will be up on Patreon eventually, you know. Yeah, 819 00:50:21,480 --> 00:50:28,239 So yeah, that's it for this episode. I think, all right, yeah, 820 00:50:28,239 --> 00:50:30,800 I don't know, even if you're not in the Philippines, 821 00:50:30,960 --> 00:50:34,719 say tabee tabi poe when you're entering any space and 822 00:50:34,760 --> 00:50:37,559 you'll be good. I think it'll protect you anywhere. M 823 00:50:38,960 --> 00:50:42,039 all right, stay spooky and we'll catch everyone next time. 824 00:50:42,360 --> 00:50:46,800 Bye Bye. S. Book Tells is hosted by Christina and Carmen. 825 00:50:46,960 --> 00:50:50,760 Produced and edited by Christina, researched by Christina Carmen and 826 00:50:50,800 --> 00:50:53,360 with the help of Don Shout Out Don. If you're 827 00:50:53,440 --> 00:50:55,960 enjoying the podcast considerably, gonna say five star review, We 828 00:50:55,960 --> 00:50:57,800 would really appreciate it. If you don't want to live 829 00:50:57,800 --> 00:50:59,760 a five star review, just don't leave a review. But 830 00:50:59,800 --> 00:51:02,119 don't even even lower than that, please, I'm just kidding. 831 00:51:02,239 --> 00:51:04,719 You can reach out to the podcast at a spooktos 832 00:51:04,719 --> 00:51:06,599 at gmail dot com. You can go to our website 833 00:51:06,599 --> 00:51:09,679 at pookitos dot com and fill out the contact form. 834 00:51:09,800 --> 00:51:11,800 If you want to support the podcast, you can join 835 00:51:11,840 --> 00:51:16,079 our Patreon where we send exclusive stickers, have bonus episodes. 836 00:51:16,159 --> 00:51:19,440 Eight dollar members get an exclusive keychain. It's super cool. 837 00:51:19,519 --> 00:51:21,920 I got new ones and these ones are huge. And 838 00:51:22,119 --> 00:51:24,360 if you want to support but you can or don't 839 00:51:24,400 --> 00:51:26,480 want to join the Patreon, that's fine too. You can 840 00:51:26,559 --> 00:51:30,039 also get some merch. You can find surets essay, a 841 00:51:30,119 --> 00:51:33,199 spooky and old English letters. There's a beanie. I love 842 00:51:33,239 --> 00:51:37,199 the beanie. There's also a hat. There's a no Mamus 843 00:51:37,199 --> 00:51:40,880 shirt which is a fan favorite. There's a lot of options, 844 00:51:40,880 --> 00:51:44,000 crap TOMPs, sweaters. It's almost wetter weather. We're nearing a 845 00:51:44,079 --> 00:51:47,320 Spookie season, so yeah, get your hoodies, you're gonna need them. 846 00:51:47,400 --> 00:51:49,239 If you don't want to do all that, that's fine too. 847 00:51:49,400 --> 00:51:51,960 You can just listen like you're listening now, and that's 848 00:51:52,000 --> 00:51:53,519 the best support that you can give us, like I 849 00:51:53,559 --> 00:51:56,159 always say in our ad break and yeah, if you 850 00:51:56,320 --> 00:52:00,960 like history, you can follow Estodia's Unknown Mining, Carmen other podcast, 851 00:52:01,559 --> 00:52:03,679 and you can find as Spooky Tells on all of 852 00:52:03,679 --> 00:52:06,719 our socials at a Spooky Tells All. This is in 853 00:52:06,800 --> 00:52:10,519 the show notes and we appreciate every single listen. Thank 854 00:52:10,559 --> 00:52:15,880 you so much, Stay a Spooky