Speaker 1: Just what is pure and authentic faith? What is the tale?
Speaker 1: Can you tell us me?
Speaker 2: Sure of course I can tell you. So please everybody
Speaker 2: check this blood from Times of Israel dot com. H
Speaker 2: that gives me lots of trust. And it's going to
Speaker 2: be extremely funny when you try to see the excuses
Speaker 2: that apologiest gives and I can only laugh at them.
Speaker 2: Let me quote from the article. When the Bible says
Speaker 2: we were formed in God's image, it essentially talks about
Speaker 2: our god given ability to think independently of our bodies. Guys,
Speaker 2: ability to think. Keep this in mind because whenever people
Speaker 2: say this, they kind of ignore the fact that, in
Speaker 2: the first place, the Bible is a combination of several
Speaker 2: stories in which humans were made in the physical image
Speaker 2: of the Creator, minus the understanding of good an evil.
Speaker 2: Read your Bible. That's why when humans ate the fruit
Speaker 2: of knowledge, they became like the Elohim, which are the
Speaker 2: council of gods that have created them. And thus they
Speaker 2: got expert from the garden of Eden. That's why when
Speaker 2: they eat the fruit god quotation Mark says, oh, now
Speaker 2: they are like us, because now they understand the difference
Speaker 2: between good and evil. Therefore, whenever they say, oh yeah,
Speaker 2: the image of God is that they can think they
Speaker 2: are lying because they didn't have the ability to think,
Speaker 2: or at least to understand good and evil, which means
Speaker 2: they were not able to understand mistakes, and they were
Speaker 2: not able to understand morality, amongst many other things. And
Speaker 2: try to understand that became the original scene. Why do
Speaker 2: I mention this because they don't even realize that they
Speaker 2: are contradicting themselves when they say, I'm quoting again from
Speaker 2: this article. And yet one of the fundamental principles of
Speaker 2: becoming godly and serving God is accepting His authority in
Speaker 2: complete and pure faith. Our connection with God is reflected
Speaker 2: in the strength of our faith. So literally, they are
Speaker 2: saying that faith is not thinking, just asking them to
Speaker 2: obey and avoid thinking, the total opposite to what they
Speaker 2: said in the beginning with the oh yeah, God's image
Speaker 2: God giving ability to think independently. Don't you do this
Speaker 2: scenic contribution? What do you think for real? Am I
Speaker 2: am I gracing here?
Speaker 3: Oh my God, I I have a I think faith
Speaker 3: is the most dangerous thing a person can have, because
Speaker 3: there is nothing that you cannot end up doing because
Speaker 3: of your faith. Because there's no because of when you
Speaker 3: have faith in something, there's no evidence to support you.
Speaker 3: And so if you think that God is giving you
Speaker 3: a message to go and do something, if you have faith,
Speaker 3: you're going to go and do it, no matter how
Speaker 3: atrocious or horrible it is. Now, fortunately, most people that
Speaker 3: are that believe they do good things out of their faith,
Speaker 3: but there are also there it's easier to be destructive
Speaker 3: than it is to be to be good, and the
Speaker 3: destruction does more harm. And so when somebody decides to
Speaker 3: be destructive because God says so, it's really damaging.
Speaker 1: Kelly, Yeah, it's it's it's it takes a lot less
Speaker 1: time to tear something down, and it just does to
Speaker 1: build it up, doesn't. That's for sure. Right, I'll definitely
Speaker 1: agree with you on that one. This this whole article
Speaker 1: started out on a bad note to me, And the
Speaker 1: first thing that I noticed was the same exact quote
Speaker 1: that Tao just mentioned. And what got to me was,
Speaker 1: how do we possibly think independently of our bodies? I mean,
Speaker 1: how do you do that? Isn't every thought you have
Speaker 1: come from your brain, which is part of your body? Right?
Speaker 1: Is there any kind of thought of your own that
Speaker 1: is independent from your body. And then from that point
Speaker 1: on it just got nuttier. Right, The whole article just
Speaker 1: got nuttier and nuttier and nuttier.
Speaker 2: To me.
Speaker 1: He at one point he used to train for an analogy,
Speaker 1: and all I can think of was, Man, this guy
Speaker 1: is on the crazy train, right. And then later, as
Speaker 1: I got near the end, I realized, no, that this
Speaker 1: article was just a train wreck in and of itself.
Speaker 2: Right.
Speaker 1: God, I couldn't believe how horribly bad the logic was
Speaker 1: in this and to think that, and he keeps reiterating
Speaker 1: it throughout the whole thing, that faith is so much
Speaker 1: better than thinking things out, and I just appalled by it.
Speaker 2: More.
Speaker 3: You want to add, yeah, I've got that. When he says, oh,
Speaker 3: I'm trying to thought tail go ahead.
Speaker 1: Sorry, that's how bad it was.
Speaker 4: Just I wanted to say, you say logic, I'm not
Speaker 4: sure that that word means what they Okay, I was
Speaker 4: going to mention many things.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, they want to believe that there is that
Speaker 2: the mind and the brain and not the same thing,
Speaker 2: because obviously not thinking it's easier, and they if they
Speaker 2: can say that it's magic. Oh, there is the need
Speaker 2: of a gash. But okay, they say so many things,
Speaker 2: as you mentioned one that I want to I want
Speaker 2: to quote quotation Mark to be honest, I think in
Speaker 2: person will be fine relying on faith because even the
Speaker 2: most rational person can reach this conclusion through reasoning. So
Speaker 2: as you see, they are saying that by faith you
Speaker 2: can be rational, when being Russian is what have brought
Speaker 2: most of us out of religion and made lose faith.
Speaker 2: I don't know when to say us talking about Killian, Aaron,
Speaker 2: but I'm talking about myself, and I met several Christians
Speaker 2: who ex Christians who have gone through these why right
Speaker 2: of understanding logic, understanding critical thinking, realizing how faith their
Speaker 2: faith was. Aaron, I don't know if you want to
Speaker 2: take the take your train back before I continue, because
Speaker 2: I have many things to say.
Speaker 3: No, I'm going to tack on what you said there
Speaker 3: that I could not understand what his argument for this was.
Speaker 3: His claim is that any rational person is going to
Speaker 3: come to faith, it's going to have faith. But he
Speaker 3: didn't make any arguments about to support that claim. He
Speaker 3: just kept making claim after claim about things that like
Speaker 3: the train, I just have no words. I just don't
Speaker 3: even know what the logic behind this article was. Essentially,
Speaker 3: I think his thought process was I don't understand this,
Speaker 3: so it must be God. When we don't understand something,
Speaker 3: it must be God. And I don't agree with that
Speaker 3: logic at all.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's in there, right, I'm sorry, you go ahead.
Speaker 2: No, I'm just saying the same of you. It's God
Speaker 2: because I don't know it.
Speaker 1: Yeah, okay, it's either God or a bunch of tiny horses.
Speaker 2: Right. Oh, yeah, that was the idea.
Speaker 3: Yeah, we have to have an explanation for something, right,
Speaker 3: If we don't know, we have to have an explanation.
Speaker 3: Have to have an explanation. The answer can't ever be
Speaker 3: I don't know. So we've been talking about this pair
Speaker 3: of this analogy that it makes about the trains. The
Speaker 3: analogy was that a train comes to a farm farmland
Speaker 3: for the first time. This is the first time these
Speaker 3: people have ever seen a train, so they have no
Speaker 3: idea how it works or anything like that, and so
Speaker 3: somebody comes up to and asks, let's go inspect this
Speaker 3: train to figure out how it works. And they're saying
Speaker 3: to themselves, well, it must be horses, right, because that's
Speaker 3: the only way you can get around that fast with horses,
Speaker 3: So they must have horses somewhere in this train. And
Speaker 3: they look and they look and they look, and they
Speaker 3: obviously they can't find any horses. And so their conclusion is, well,
Speaker 3: we can't find any horses, so it must be a
Speaker 3: really mighty miniature horse that's running this train.
Speaker 2: No, you don't have any evidence to support that.
Speaker 3: The only conclusion is I don't know how the train runs.
Speaker 3: Let's continue to investigate.
Speaker 2: Tell But you know, the big problem here is that
Speaker 2: they don't realize this. They destroy their own argument because
Speaker 2: they say, Okay, it's tiny horses, and we must have
Speaker 2: faith that is tiny horses in the same way that
Speaker 2: they must have faith in God. And they don't realize, Hey,
Speaker 2: if you go and educate those people in what an
Speaker 2: engine is and how it can make the train move,
Speaker 2: they will stop believing in tiny horses in the same
Speaker 2: way that people if you educate them properly, they will
Speaker 2: still believing in silly stuff like God. And I have
Speaker 2: to say, whoever who wrote this stupid thing, I mean,
Speaker 2: this article, they don't think much about anything, they said.
Speaker 2: Quotation mark. A fifty year old professor can explain his
Speaker 2: fifty years of knowledge and experience to a two year
Speaker 2: old even though it's all relative. And I love this
Speaker 2: word relative because it makes me think of certain guy.
Speaker 2: Maybe you have heard of Ainstein. A lot of people
Speaker 2: give him some quotes. I have no idea what I'm
Speaker 2: going to quote it is for him or not, but
Speaker 2: I found it on the internet, so it must be true.
Speaker 2: My favorite quote from Ainstein is if you can't explain
Speaker 2: it simply, you don't understand it well enough. This is
Speaker 2: to say a guy with fifty years of professor, a
Speaker 2: fifty year old professor whose job is to explain things, Yes,
Speaker 2: they can explain things to little children because they can
Speaker 2: make it simple because they totally understand it. The fact
Speaker 2: that you, guy writing this stupid article don't understand something
Speaker 2: doesn't mean other people don't understand things either. It only
Speaker 2: means that you don't understand something. So yes, a fifty
Speaker 2: years of professor should be able to teach some of
Speaker 2: his topics. Obviously, he's not going to spank his whole
Speaker 2: life or hours and hours teaching boring to death to
Speaker 2: a little child. But he can explain some of the
Speaker 2: stuff that he knows in a very simple way. So
Speaker 2: the whole train of thought, train of thought of this
Speaker 2: article is derailed awful. Yeah, Kelly, I see without job.
Speaker 1: Yeah. I don't know if he even realized he was
Speaker 1: destroying his own argument with that train analogy. You know, Oh,
Speaker 1: you just gotta have faith, you know, because faith was
Speaker 1: really good. It can even lead you to tiny horses.
Speaker 1: I just it seems like a stupid argument to maker
Speaker 1: stupid analogy. So I'm not even sure the guy understood
Speaker 1: that he was like really tearing up his own argument
Speaker 1: by using that. Right. And you mentioned the you know,
Speaker 1: not being able to say something to a two year
Speaker 1: old and if you can't explain it to a five
Speaker 1: year old. That is so true. And that's one of
Speaker 1: the things that one of my good for one of
Speaker 1: my good geologist friends, he's retired. He was getting bored
Speaker 1: and he didn't know what to do with himself. So
Speaker 1: he started teaching at the local elementary school, actually at
Speaker 1: the Catholic school. He's not a Catholic, but he did
Speaker 1: anyway because they had an opening and he was teaching
Speaker 1: these little kids, and he actually brought them into our
Speaker 1: store because we have a huge, huge selection of rocks
Speaker 1: that he could use to demonstrate and teach them about.
Speaker 1: And I was able to teach the kids stuff, and
Speaker 1: you can talk to these kids in a way that
Speaker 1: they understand, and you can see the lights start to
Speaker 1: shine in their eyes when they're getting it right. And
Speaker 1: it's one of the coolest things that I've ever done
Speaker 1: is teaching science children teach it, teaching these concepts that
Speaker 1: even some adults don't get and breaking it down and
Speaker 1: showing kids how it works. And they are a lot
Speaker 1: smarter than you can give them that most people give
Speaker 1: him credit for. So that really bothered me that he
Speaker 1: was like and and I mean to use a two
Speaker 1: year old was a little bit of kind of a stretch.
Speaker 1: I think he went. He was like bringing it to
Speaker 1: the absurd there, But you can talk to a five
Speaker 1: year old, somebody that has already learned to reason and
Speaker 1: understand stuff. You can make break anything down for him
Speaker 1: so that they can understand it.
Speaker 3: My thought was, who explains their life worth life work
Speaker 3: to two year old?
Speaker 1: Right? I didn't even think that, Yes, if he's.
Speaker 3: And if he's making it, I think he's making an
Speaker 3: analogy that God is the fifty year old and we're
Speaker 3: the two year olds Compared to God, God knows everything
Speaker 3: and we're just little two year olds that know nothing. Right,
Speaker 3: It sounds like God isn't quite as omnipotent as he
Speaker 3: says he is, because if God can't explain things to
Speaker 3: me as a two year old, then he's not omnipotent,
Speaker 3: is he?
Speaker 1: Yes?
Speaker 2: Right? So they it's all because yeah, if that's what
Speaker 2: they were trying to say. Now the next sentence that
Speaker 2: I have in here makes more sense. That says, in
Speaker 2: the same way, we must appreciate an accept that if
Speaker 2: God can create this vast and precise universe with seven
Speaker 2: billion people, it is impossible to ever understand his wisdom
Speaker 2: and mind. And this is literally the meme we cannot
Speaker 2: understand God. So let me tell you exactly got God
Speaker 2: what God thinks? All right? God once and also only
Speaker 2: seven billion people. So I guess there is no life
Speaker 2: outside humans on all animals or they don't exist apparently.
Speaker 1: I like the way he invoked Pharaoh too, because who
Speaker 1: is the biggest, baddest bad guy before Hitler? It was Pharaoh, right,
Speaker 1: I mean, that's it was so so I thought it
Speaker 1: was funny that he would invoke the oldest baddest man
Speaker 1: ever to highlighted that you have to be evil evil
Speaker 1: if you don't being God believe in God. You don't
Speaker 1: believe in God, while you're as bad as Pharaoh. Oh
Speaker 1: my horrible person, you right, And it just seemed like
Speaker 1: this underhanded insult that anybody who ed an atheist to me? Right,
Speaker 1: and then right after that he goes into disparaging education.
Speaker 1: And I think we can all figure out why, right,
Speaker 1: because higher education is in fact the enemy of faith. Right.
Speaker 1: It reminds me of that old Steve Martin joke. And
Speaker 1: can you imagine dying and actually going to a cliche
Speaker 1: cliche heaven. You'd be standing there in front of the
Speaker 1: pearly gates and you're thinking, oh wow, man, in college,
Speaker 1: they told me this was all bullshit. And I think
Speaker 1: that's the only part of this piece that actually really
Speaker 1: really pissed me off.
Speaker 2: Right.
Speaker 1: Essentially, he's saying, you don't need to be educated, you
Speaker 1: don't need to learn stuff. Faith is better. All you
Speaker 1: gotta do is have faith that you're right. How do
Speaker 1: you not get pissed when you hear stuff like that, Right,
Speaker 1: I don't really don't want me.
Speaker 2: What you're saying is perfectly reflected. When that's a huge thing.
Speaker 2: The writer goes, unquote, who was it? Rabbi Menachim Mendel
Speaker 2: of cod Kids something like that, who said I do
Speaker 2: not want to have faith in a god that is
Speaker 2: understood literally is saying that he wants to be irrasianal.
Speaker 2: He doesn't want to understand. He just wants to have faith.
Speaker 2: And they even say faith as an inference of intellect
Speaker 2: is not faith at all. It is intellect entirely limited
Speaker 2: by ones thinking, almost as if knowledge that saying that
Speaker 2: knowledge is limited was something bad when you need the
Speaker 2: flaws of that. But no, faith is infinite, so you
Speaker 2: can't believe whatever you want. All right, that's so awful, Aaron,
Speaker 2: I know that you can continue this line of thought. Yeah.
Speaker 3: So I imagine this article came out because I don't
Speaker 3: know how how old this gentleman is. He as kids,
Speaker 3: but I imagine that either his child or his grandchild
Speaker 3: came up to him and was asking them all sorts
Speaker 3: of questions about his faith, about why this, why that?
Speaker 3: How come this? How come that?
Speaker 1: And I can just see him, well, because we have
Speaker 1: to have faith more and.
Speaker 3: Got all angry, and I've said about these plain and
Speaker 3: simple questions that a two year olds asking, and when
Speaker 3: I wrote this article as a rebuttal to all the
Speaker 3: tough quesquestions that people ask of religion, and and he
Speaker 3: does not succeed in making making this argument. It seems
Speaker 3: like his whole point is stop asking questions and just
Speaker 3: accept things on faith.
Speaker 2: Why do you have to know how everything works?
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, there were you know, there was one other
Speaker 1: thing and it got me angry too, just right near
Speaker 1: the end. It was the idea that if your life
Speaker 1: isn't good, it's okay, it's actually good anyway. All you
Speaker 1: need is that faith again, right, You just got to
Speaker 1: have faith in God and everything's fine, that's all. And
Speaker 1: it's just what a load of crap, What a load
Speaker 1: of crap does somebody who's suffering from depression. Oh, all
Speaker 1: you got to do is have faith in God and
Speaker 1: you'll be fine.
Speaker 4: You know.
Speaker 1: It's just it's it's infuriating to me. It's an infuriating
Speaker 1: that somebody who who supposedly is educated could spout this
Speaker 1: kind of crap to somebody, to other people.
Speaker 3: Yeah, reinforces the notion that if you're if you're suffering,
Speaker 3: it is because you're not obedient enough, or you're not
Speaker 3: faithful enough, or you're not something enough, and so you
Speaker 3: just have to work harder it and that's that's just
Speaker 3: not the reality, right, That's not how our bodies work
Speaker 3: and our brains work.
Speaker 2: And yeah, yeah, yeah, I was going to say, what
Speaker 2: can you expect from our religion that says that being
Speaker 2: sick is either a demon inside your body or got
Speaker 2: punishing you because you did not want God wanted.
Speaker 1: So yeah, yeah, well we're gonna have to start wrapping
Speaker 1: it up here. We're getting there in the end. I
Speaker 1: had a great time with you guys, man, I tell
Speaker 1: you I always live hanging out with you and Aaron.
Speaker 1: It was wonderful meeting you, and we're going great to
Speaker 1: be here.
Speaker 2: I had a lot of fun. Yeah.
Speaker 1: I hope we get to do this again together. I
Speaker 1: had a blast everybody. If you enjoyed this and you
Speaker 1: want to have more conversation, get involved in more conversations
Speaker 1: like this. You can actually get involved in them by
Speaker 1: joining our fans social media outlets. You can find a
Speaker 1: lot of the nonprofit hosts that the Atheist community discord.
Speaker 1: I'm there all the time. There's quite a few of
Speaker 1: us that hang out there by going to tiny dot, cc, slash,
Speaker 1: ac D Discord, and you can also find us on
Speaker 1: Facebook at tiny dot cc slash fp n P. And
Speaker 1: if you would like to support the show, we say
Speaker 1: thank you do it. You can do so by becoming
Speaker 1: a patron at tiny dot cc slash Patreon NP. And
Speaker 1: most of all, and this is really really important, we
Speaker 1: value your feedback. We really want you to tell us
Speaker 1: what you like and what you don't like in the comments,
Speaker 1: or you can email us at nonprofits at Atheistyphencommunity dot org.
Speaker 1: And it's your feedback that helps us make improvements to
Speaker 1: the show. And if it's a really good one and
Speaker 1: it's worthy of reading it, we'll read it on the air.
Speaker 1: So you can get your name up down the show,
Speaker 1: So do it getting hold of us. Also, you should
Speaker 1: visit the Atheist Community of Austin's official website at Atheist
Speaker 1: Typhoncommunity dot org for the latest of what's been happening,
Speaker 1: and feel free to contact the ACA at TV at
Speaker 1: Atheist Typhoncommunity dot org where that's a lot of hyphens
Speaker 1: in dot orgs Boy, final thoughts from you guys, so
Speaker 1: we can before we wrap it up here, Tayo, you'd
Speaker 1: like to finish the show.
Speaker 2: With, Yeah, I love being here with you guys. Aaron,
Speaker 2: you are such an awesome dude. I'm happy that I
Speaker 2: got to meet you and Kelly. I always enjoy being
Speaker 2: with you, so thank you on Profits for allowing me
Speaker 2: to be here. I love you, I love the public,
Speaker 2: I love everything from here.
Speaker 3: Aaron, Yeah, the same thing. It was a lot of
Speaker 3: fun talking with you, with you guys about about this.
Speaker 3: Tayo is great to meet you. Kelly is great to
Speaker 3: meet you. I hope I look forward to coming back
Speaker 3: on the show in the future.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I look forward to it. I look forward to
Speaker 1: working with you again too. Eron, I had a bless
Speaker 1: with you today. That's about it. We're gonna wrap it up.
Speaker 1: I want to thank everybody for watching and listening, and
Speaker 1: I will see you next week.