Speaker 1: What is up?
Speaker 2: Fellasiko's I Am Dana Valley coming at you with mister
Speaker 2: Mike Sure of Basketball Poetry, a favorite around these parts
Speaker 2: who we reference on many of shows. Follow him on
Speaker 2: the social machines at bee Ball is poetry spelled exactly
Speaker 2: as it sounds. I love when I get to do
Speaker 2: that and I don't have to sit here and spell
Speaker 2: it out. Be ball is poetry. Go follow him. Mike's
Speaker 2: work is fantastic. You go find the link to subscribe
Speaker 2: to Basketball's Poetry in the YouTube and podcast descriptions. I highly,
Speaker 2: highly highly recommend his work, especially if you're listening to
Speaker 2: this podcast. We're here to do a breakout candidates for
Speaker 2: twenty twenty six twenty twenty seven NBA Draft. But first
Speaker 2: the question that I'm sure the masses are dying to
Speaker 2: know the answer to, Mike, how has it been since
Speaker 2: we last caught up?
Speaker 1: I guess like probably this time last year.
Speaker 3: Around Yeah, yeah, we last time we'd spoke was last summer,
Speaker 3: a little later in the summer, and.
Speaker 4: I'd say it was pretty good. I thought it was
Speaker 4: a pretty fun NBA year.
Speaker 3: I think it's been a fantastic NBA offseason. I'm sure
Speaker 3: you have no complaints with how the season unfolded, So yeah.
Speaker 1: I have one come.
Speaker 2: I mean I could complain like James Dolan is wrong
Speaker 2: Fait the second Aprin, but that's just that's just me. Yeah,
Speaker 2: I have zero zero, I guess complaints from within the
Speaker 2: last year for sure.
Speaker 4: Uh.
Speaker 2: I'm excited to do the Breakout Candidate's Draft with you.
Speaker 2: We did Hidden Gems last year and this is kind
Speaker 2: of along the same lines. We're not just selecting the
Speaker 2: biggest breakout candidate names, but guys that were interested in
Speaker 2: for a variety of reasons. I did want to ask
Speaker 2: you though, before we actually dug in, was there anything
Speaker 2: to just your approach of this, Like what makes a
Speaker 2: we don't know who the other is gonna pick. There's
Speaker 2: a huge pool of players. I think it ended up
Speaker 2: being like fifty something players. But what was your what
Speaker 2: attracts you to someone as a breakout Canada? Like, what
Speaker 2: is what's that factor that really makes you glom onto them?
Speaker 4: Yeah?
Speaker 3: I think that the most interesting players are the one
Speaker 3: for whom the context around them changes dramatically, and that
Speaker 3: can be as small and that could be as dramatic
Speaker 3: as changing teams entirely to just like having change in
Speaker 3: teammates to having a new coach, Like I'm looking for
Speaker 3: places where guys are suddenly going to have new opportunities
Speaker 3: that might not have been there before. I think that's
Speaker 3: that was sort of like my guiding principle, But it's not.
Speaker 3: There's no hard and fast rules. Right when you think
Speaker 3: about breakouts, there's several levels to it. It could be guys
Speaker 3: who are end of the rotation struggling to stay in
Speaker 3: the league becoming steady contributors. It could be eighth men
Speaker 3: becoming fifth men. It could be you know, like low
Speaker 3: level starters becoming quasi all star.
Speaker 4: Like there's a whole like, you know, there's a whole.
Speaker 3: Different set of groupings for all these and I think
Speaker 3: that I try to pick a couple guys from all
Speaker 3: of them.
Speaker 2: I opportunity is something that I think they'll have anyway,
Speaker 2: is something that I weigh more than anything. But I
Speaker 2: have one or two guys on my list where it's
Speaker 2: I just believe in them, and the circumstances aren't really
Speaker 2: the environment, the pecking order aren't really set up for
Speaker 2: them to maybe necessarily have the convention for people to.
Speaker 1: See it coming a mile away.
Speaker 2: But I think they're going to become under and that
Speaker 2: might be irrational a little bit, Like that's the part
Speaker 2: where I struggle, because opportunity is such a huge part
Speaker 2: of it unless you think that a player is like
Speaker 2: maybe they have a new coach and they're gonna play
Speaker 2: them more and so like the roles and technically there
Speaker 2: but oh or wouldn't have been there previously, but they're
Speaker 2: about to get it. There is an element for me
Speaker 2: the where I try and why do I feel like
Speaker 2: this player is undeniable? And that's very rarely the case.
Speaker 2: I think that environment plays a huge part in not
Speaker 2: just the development but the actual opportunity they're getting. But
Speaker 2: I try to I try to spot someone that I
Speaker 2: think is going to become undeniable, and anyone who listens
Speaker 2: to this podcast knows I have at least one of them,
Speaker 2: mostly if they come up during this draft though.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean your initial pool was fifty or you know,
Speaker 3: the pool is like fifty plus players that are going
Speaker 3: to become undeniable next year.
Speaker 4: I'm excited about that. Well, a lot to talk about it.
Speaker 4: If that's the case.
Speaker 2: Yeah, we're gonna get through every single one. We're gonna
Speaker 2: go through every single player, but we are gonna do
Speaker 2: We're gonna do lottery style, so each makes seven picks. Mike,
Speaker 2: you have the first. So with the first pick in
Speaker 2: the twenty twenty six twenty twenty seven breakout Player Draft,
Speaker 2: who will you be taking?
Speaker 3: Well, I wanted to start with one of maybe the
Speaker 3: bigger names of my personal list, and that is a
Speaker 3: certain Minnesota Timberwolf who goes by Jaden McDaniels, Jade mcdale.
Speaker 3: A lot of the guys on this list, Skew Younger,
Speaker 3: h Jaye. McDaniels is a vet at this point. You know,
Speaker 3: he's been in the league for six years, I think,
Speaker 3: but I just think that like he has a chance
Speaker 3: to really break out in a real way this year.
Speaker 4: His scoring has gone up almost every year of his career.
Speaker 3: We know the defense is elite, although I will say
Speaker 3: that last year was a little discouraging that regard because
Speaker 3: he kind of reverted back to his worst fouling tendencies.
Speaker 3: The three point percentage, you know, rose dramatically last year,
Speaker 3: even though the volume is limited. But every year it
Speaker 3: feels like he rises to the playoff occasion, right, Like
Speaker 3: he gets a little bit better in the playoffs every
Speaker 3: single season except for that one year where he like
Speaker 3: punched a wall and broke his hand.
Speaker 4: We'll leave that one aside.
Speaker 3: And now, like you're swapping out basically Julius Randall for
Speaker 3: LaMelo Ball in.
Speaker 4: The starting lineup around him.
Speaker 3: That's such an improvement in past singing, in spacing, and
Speaker 3: I think that's gonna really play to his strengths because
Speaker 3: he's like a fantastic finisher. The Wolves have always played
Speaker 3: kind of slow, and I think he could be a
Speaker 3: monster in transition. You just he never gets out in transition,
Speaker 3: and I think having Ball on the team with him,
Speaker 3: I think I would assume Mo being on the team
Speaker 3: with him, Like they're gonna play a lot faster than
Speaker 3: they usually do. And I think you're gonna see McDaniel's
Speaker 3: turn into this like monster in the open court. I
Speaker 3: think if the shooting touch is real, like he doesn't
Speaker 3: have to put up a huge volume, but I think
Speaker 3: that like it can be sort of Aaron Gordon esque,
Speaker 3: where like if you're just hitting enough of them, even
Speaker 3: on smaller volume, then like people have to respect that, right.
Speaker 3: And I just think the Wolves in general are gonna
Speaker 3: be super fun. I think they're gonna be super different.
Speaker 3: I think that the Lamello injection, if he can stay healthy,
Speaker 3: is going to just change the way they look and feel.
Speaker 3: And I think that McDaniels is gonna be able to
Speaker 3: absorb some of this finishing and playmaking duties from Randall
Speaker 3: and just put up numbers that people that might surprise
Speaker 3: people like I don't think it's out of the realm
Speaker 3: possibility that he's like an eighteen point per game scorer
Speaker 3: next year while still being an elite defender.
Speaker 2: That's interesting because his offense. If we rewound the clock
Speaker 2: like three years ago, I never would have predicted that
Speaker 2: he's done as much with the ball in his hands
Speaker 2: as he as he has at this stage. I also
Speaker 2: do wonder, yes, none of the none of the players
Speaker 2: on this roster feel like they have as much tunnel
Speaker 2: vision as a Julius Randall on the ball, But I
Speaker 2: do worry about him maybe getting lost in the shuffle
Speaker 2: of and Anthony Edwards LaMelo and I would assume move
Speaker 2: being there my bigger question because I want in theory,
Speaker 2: I love this and I want to love it. But
Speaker 2: I was digging into the lineup data for Jade McDaniels,
Speaker 2: like a few weeks ago at the four, and it's like,
Speaker 2: if the plan is to play him at power forward,
Speaker 2: I'm very curious to see how it pans out, because
Speaker 2: the data on that was one sparse just because they
Speaker 2: haven't done it a ton and two wasn't that great.
Speaker 2: And so I would think, offensively, do you think him
Speaker 2: playing at the four more would actually help Unlocked, because
Speaker 2: right now he has to He's not gonna have a choice.
Speaker 2: He's gonna play at the four more, right, Yeah.
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, I think it is going to help.
Speaker 3: And I think it's the combination of him being at
Speaker 3: the four, with LaMelo being at the one and at
Speaker 3: the two, and obviously Io at the three.
Speaker 4: I think there's just there's one more shooting in.
Speaker 3: There's a lot more pace to this roster in a
Speaker 3: way that think is going to really benefit the Wolves.
Speaker 4: As a whole.
Speaker 3: And McDaniel's specifically like Dosumu is basically like a cannonball,
Speaker 3: right Like he gets out there, he's running down the
Speaker 3: court as fast as he can.
Speaker 4: LaMelo is one of the best hit a head passers
Speaker 4: in the league.
Speaker 3: And I think, like people, people I think have a
Speaker 3: somewhat unfair opinion Lavel like people know he's a good passer,
Speaker 3: and yet I think he's also viewed as sort of
Speaker 3: like a ball hog, if that makes sense. You know,
Speaker 3: Like I think people are worried about like his decision
Speaker 3: making stuff like that. I don't think that's ever been
Speaker 3: as a big deal in practice as people think. I
Speaker 3: think there are some high profile moments where like he
Speaker 3: takes you know, his one foot falling down three pointer
Speaker 3: after seventeen crossovers, if you're like, this guy just doesn't
Speaker 3: get it. And I don't really think that's true for
Speaker 3: the other ninety nine percent of the game. And so
Speaker 3: I think that like he is going to have like
Speaker 3: a rising tie lifts all boats kind of thing for
Speaker 3: some of the supporting characters on this team. And you know, conversely,
Speaker 3: we'll see what happens with the Hornets without LaMelo ball
Speaker 3: to be there to stir the drink, which that's a
Speaker 3: different situation in question. But but I do think that
Speaker 3: like McDaniel's to me, is a guy who has a
Speaker 3: lot of talents that he's never been able to unlock.
Speaker 4: I do think he's going to be great in transition.
Speaker 4: I do think he's great.
Speaker 3: He is great around the rim, it's just been really
Speaker 3: hard for him to get there when he's always been
Speaker 3: playing small forward and as power forward.
Speaker 4: I think it's just me a lot easier for him
Speaker 4: to get there.
Speaker 3: And every year his handle gets a little better, he
Speaker 3: gets a little more confident attacking off the dribble. I
Speaker 3: just I think things are prime for him to have
Speaker 3: a big year. I think the risks are there's just
Speaker 3: a lot of mouths on the Wolves to feed, right,
Speaker 3: and I think that like it might just be that, like,
Speaker 3: even if the offense is what it is, if they
Speaker 3: just get crushed on the boards too bad, or if
Speaker 3: McDaniels can't hold up playing power forward, there's a risk
Speaker 3: that they can't play him in a way that is
Speaker 3: optimal for him offensively. But I so I totally hear
Speaker 3: you in that reguard. But I am optimistic that this
Speaker 3: is going to be a big time upgrade for him overall.
Speaker 2: I if he levels up, like within the context of
Speaker 2: this team, I don't know if people understand how huge
Speaker 2: that will be, because he's already so good, like offensively
Speaker 2: just as a player, and so I didn't have him
Speaker 2: on my initial list. So I found that to be
Speaker 2: a fascinating pick, and I'll root for it because I'm
Speaker 2: one mellow ball truther, so I'm very much a Wolves
Speaker 2: fan this season. I need to be vindicatd and I
Speaker 2: I what you were saying, for the most parts is
Speaker 2: music to my years. About LaMelo is I think a
Speaker 2: lot of the stuff I think it's fair. A lot
Speaker 2: of the Christmas is fair. I also think last year
Speaker 2: was the first season that we got to see him
Speaker 2: on a real team for an extended period of time
Speaker 2: and left a bad taste our mouths with the way
Speaker 2: they went out in the play in. And I don't
Speaker 2: think I will not be suckered into man I lie,
Speaker 2: I probably will be. I won't be suckered into the
Speaker 2: early season rim frequency that he's delivered in the past,
Speaker 2: and then it just kind of tapers off. So there
Speaker 2: are real problems there. But I loved the swing by them.
Speaker 2: I'm gonna go, oh, go ahead.
Speaker 4: No, I agree.
Speaker 3: I just I think Ball is like gonna be It's
Speaker 3: there's gonna be a lot more consensus now about who
Speaker 3: Ball is as a player.
Speaker 4: Right like right now it's split.
Speaker 3: He's very polarizing as a player, and I think after
Speaker 3: this year we're gonna have a much better idea of
Speaker 3: like how good how much he can really impact winning
Speaker 3: at a high level.
Speaker 4: So I'm excited for that. I'm always excited for answers
Speaker 4: to questions, are you.
Speaker 2: Excited to talk about low hanging fruit here? With the
Speaker 2: second pick in the drift absolutely of the San Antonio Spurs.
Speaker 2: I bolded him when we were going through this first.
Speaker 2: I'm not sure if he's in the spe of this exercise,
Speaker 2: but I would say that this is someone who if
Speaker 2: you considered him a rookie breakout, it would not shock
Speaker 2: me if we're having a Dylan Harper All Star conversation
Speaker 2: this year. A lot of that is going to depend
Speaker 2: on will they start him, And the answer is they
Speaker 2: better like Deannon Fox can still be in this to
Speaker 2: just do it, Like I'm kind of he is that good.
Speaker 2: I do have questions, but I think the defense for
Speaker 2: a rookie, especially when some of the moments he had
Speaker 2: in the.
Speaker 1: Postseason was absolutely monstrous.
Speaker 2: His ability to just generate from scratch rim pressure, whether
Speaker 2: it's he has a head start or he's working from
Speaker 2: a dead stop. I did not see anything like that coming.
Speaker 2: And this is someone who doesn't pay as much attention
Speaker 2: to college basketball. I am a little concerned, but I
Speaker 2: think he's going to get better when you look at
Speaker 2: a lot of the turnover data when Fox is not
Speaker 2: on the court for him, I think that's why Danreon
Speaker 2: Fox is still important to the Spurs. Generally worse for
Speaker 2: Steph Castle than is Dylan Harper, but like the Spurs
Speaker 2: were turning the ball over every five seconds in the
Speaker 2: playoffs when Dylan Harper on the court without Darren Fox.
Speaker 2: And I had two other questions about his offense. Specifically,
Speaker 2: I think he's a better passer than even we've seen.
Speaker 2: I think that he's just gonna give him more pick
Speaker 2: and roll reps. It won't just be stuff that maybe
Speaker 2: he's working out of drives. My two big questions were
Speaker 2: does he have a pull up jumper? Because I also
Speaker 2: thought that's why Darn Fox was important to work for
Speaker 2: that in between range. After the playoffs, the answer to
Speaker 2: me is yes, his effective field goal percentage on pull
Speaker 2: up jumpers increased by more than ten percentage points in
Speaker 2: the playoffs. Like that just doesn't happen for a rookie
Speaker 2: like to have that type of jump. My other question
Speaker 2: is will the three ball be a viable weapon and
Speaker 2: I'm less sure there. The percentages on his you know,
Speaker 2: stand still looks in the regular season were fine, sub
Speaker 2: thirty one percent on catch and shoot looks in the playoffs.
Speaker 2: How much of that is he was he was kind
Speaker 2: of playing a higher usage role at points. So given
Speaker 2: the Spurs still needs shooting, his development as an overall
Speaker 2: shooter or someone who can shoot off the bounce is
Speaker 2: going to be big.
Speaker 1: But this is just someone who the tunity should be there.
Speaker 2: But if you think that, if that the Spurs won't
Speaker 2: begin the season starting him, this is a situation where
Speaker 2: to me, he's gonna become undeniable and need to be
Speaker 2: in there, whether you're running small and that you're trying
Speaker 2: to play with Fox Castle and Harper more of those
Speaker 2: minutes just from the jump, he is so good. And
Speaker 2: this is like Grant, my co host, was all over this.
Speaker 2: Like coming into the draft, I wasn't not a Daling
Speaker 2: Harper guy, but it wasn't just someone I thought was
Speaker 2: gonna be, oh, this will be an all NBA guy
Speaker 2: and what we saw as a rookie, No, like this
Speaker 2: is an all NBA guy. And for anyone who wanted
Speaker 2: the Spurs to make more fireworks, over the summer. The
Speaker 2: firework might just be, well, we're gonna let dealing Harper
Speaker 2: marinate and go kaboom.
Speaker 4: Yeah, so I'm in basically total agreement.
Speaker 3: I think the Fox question is so interesting because like
Speaker 3: you do in theory, need a guy who's a better
Speaker 3: shooter on the on the court, right at the guard position,
Speaker 3: you do in theory you need a guy who's a
Speaker 3: little more careful of the ball. But then you look
Speaker 3: at the numbers and the lineup data for Harper, Castle
Speaker 3: and women now it.
Speaker 4: Together without Fox, Okay, with Fox off in.
Speaker 3: About four hundred possessions, super small sample size, but we're
Speaker 3: gonna talk about it anyway. Plus forty two net raining
Speaker 3: forty two good.
Speaker 4: That's not bad.
Speaker 3: I mean that's like so much better than the best
Speaker 3: rating that's ever been recorded in NBA history over bigger
Speaker 3: sample size. Obviously, it's crazy, and that means that it's
Speaker 3: something you have to explore further. Obviously wouldn't be a
Speaker 3: plus forty two forever, right, But like that tells me.
Speaker 3: And the hilarious thing is like their one hundred percent
Speaker 3: tile on offense and also one hundred percent tile on defense,
Speaker 3: So there's basically forget the turnovers. Forget the spacing, It
Speaker 3: didn't really matter in the handful of possessions we saw
Speaker 3: them do, and.
Speaker 4: That's actually something that carried over into the playoffs too.
Speaker 3: So I had the same like recollection, like the turnovers
Speaker 3: or a problem, you need Fox out there to stabilize
Speaker 3: the offense. But that was more of like a Stephan Castle,
Speaker 3: darn Fox issue than it was at Dylan Harper Darren
Speaker 3: Fox issue because this same foursome or sorry, the same threesome.
Speaker 3: So Harper Castle On wenting now without Fox in the
Speaker 3: playoffs still outscored teams by plus nineteen points per under possession,
Speaker 3: which is still an outst like outrageous figure, even given
Speaker 3: that their turnover rate was very bad. So I just like,
Speaker 3: I think that's one of those things where, like the
Speaker 3: on paper stuff, you see why Fox makes sense on paper,
Speaker 3: but then you go in you look at whatever small
Speaker 3: amount of numbers we have and you're like, it kind
Speaker 3: of doesn't matter, Like you kind of just have to
Speaker 3: go and see what you've got with these three guys,
Speaker 3: because so far it's been nothing but positive. And the
Speaker 3: Spurs obviously would have done some things a little differently
Speaker 3: if they had known they're gonna get the number two pick.
Speaker 4: You can't really fault them for that.
Speaker 3: Although even though I didn't like the Fox contract at
Speaker 3: the time and stuff, but that is a sunk cost.
Speaker 3: That's something you're gonna have to figure out how to
Speaker 3: work around, whether that's bringing Fox off the bench or
Speaker 3: trading them. Like I think Fox is helpful. They don't
Speaker 3: have great Garb depth on this team, and if there's
Speaker 3: an injury, he's gonna become even more valuable. But Harper
Speaker 3: Castle on Womeniyama or the future. You need to see
Speaker 3: them in much bigger minutes. Frankly, you need to see
Speaker 3: Harper next to Womenyama more.
Speaker 2: Right.
Speaker 3: I know I've been rambling for a while, but like
Speaker 3: Marb didn't get that much time with Wimby, and I
Speaker 3: think that's the key core that you do that you
Speaker 3: need to practice with over the railer season.
Speaker 2: I worry less about Daron Fox is a number, and
Speaker 2: more so, Daron Fox is just this political presence to wear. Well,
Speaker 2: what does it look like if you're benching this Max
Speaker 2: player right in favor of Dylan Harper and we didn't
Speaker 2: see I was shocked they didn't go to this more
Speaker 2: And I know availability had somebody that played with it,
Speaker 2: but Cleanglass had them with fifty four possessions of Fox,
Speaker 2: Castle and Harper together last year.
Speaker 1: Uh, the numbers is in.
Speaker 3: The regular season, it was like seventeen posessions in the
Speaker 3: regular season.
Speaker 4: I just looked at it.
Speaker 2: Yeah, so it's just like, I don't I think you
Speaker 2: need to go to that more just because now you
Speaker 2: have to What are you gonna pay Daron Fox forty
Speaker 2: plus million fifty plus million to be a twenty minute
Speaker 2: per game guy. I mean, you have that flexibility if
Speaker 2: you really need to. But that's not going to help
Speaker 2: his trade value either. So I'm interested to see what
Speaker 2: that lineup is going to or how much more that
Speaker 2: lineup places because it doesn't have to play more now
Speaker 2: just by virtue of well, Dylan Harper needs a like
Speaker 2: fuck ton more minutes and like how else do we
Speaker 2: get there?
Speaker 3: Yeah, No, I think you're rightly. I think they should
Speaker 3: explore it with Fox as well. But this is a
Speaker 3: good problem. Behalf all right, we should take a step
Speaker 3: back and be like, Fox is not in a take
Speaker 3: away the vacuum takeway everyone else. Fox is still a
Speaker 3: good player who will help you win games most of
Speaker 3: the time. He's just not a great fit with what
Speaker 3: they have now, it seems like. But to your point,
Speaker 3: they really didn't even try the three of them plus Wimby,
Speaker 3: and maybe maybe there is some magic there that we
Speaker 3: just haven't seen yet. So you're right, that is the
Speaker 3: first step. You're right they should play that first before
Speaker 3: they figure out what they can do about Fox.
Speaker 2: I also, look, I'm not gonna darn Fox was bad
Speaker 2: by the end of the playoffs. He was injured, but
Speaker 2: I also thought he did a better job during the
Speaker 2: regular season of wasn't on the ball as much as
Speaker 2: we saw him all the time, So I thought he
Speaker 2: did a better job trying to retro fit really around
Speaker 2: some of those Steph Castle minutes.
Speaker 1: But it's still it's a problem.
Speaker 2: We all like kind of clocked it going in, and
Speaker 2: it's going to be an issue. I'm so interested how
Speaker 2: mich Johnson handles it, though, because Dy Dylan Harper is
Speaker 2: what it surprised you. I mean, the West is still
Speaker 2: it's got star power if they're healthy. But if we're
Speaker 2: talking about Dylan Harper as a sophomore being in the
Speaker 2: All Star conversation this year, if that surprising, you.
Speaker 4: Can't surprise anybody after his postseason.
Speaker 2: Yeah, uh, the Spurs just having Dylan Harper's kind of unfair.
Speaker 1: But that's that's not either here nor there.
Speaker 4: You know, well I do.
Speaker 3: I do want to make it here and there for
Speaker 3: a second, because I do think that that was like
Speaker 3: one of the sticking points with like lottery reformants, like
Speaker 3: we don't want teams stacking multiple top four pictures and
Speaker 3: aren't you aren't we all kind of glad that Dylan
Speaker 3: Harper is on the Spurs instead of like on no
Speaker 3: Offensive Sacramento, but like, you know, stuck in Sacramento or
Speaker 3: some other team, Like I actually think putting the best
Speaker 3: young players on medium to good teams is better for
Speaker 3: those players and better for basketball overall, even if it
Speaker 3: means that we'll have a couple of sacrificial lambs who
Speaker 3: just get terrible lottery luck every year and I are
Speaker 3: left out in the coach. I'd rather that twenty seven
Speaker 3: other teams be better and more fun to watch if
Speaker 3: it means three teams are screwed, And I'm sorry for that,
Speaker 3: because those three teams it'll be that's not gonna make
Speaker 3: them feel better.
Speaker 4: But that's just my opinion.
Speaker 2: I didn't mean unfair in the pejorative sense, just like
Speaker 2: unfair just more of a compliment than anything. Look, I
Speaker 2: hate lottery reform. I think it was an overcorrection. I like,
Speaker 2: I'm excited at the idea when I was going through
Speaker 2: win totals and how low they are. Yeah, like, oh wow,
Speaker 2: if this really falls suit, a lot of team is
Speaker 2: going to be trying. So I'm I'm excited about that aspect.
Speaker 2: But I do think it was an over correction because
Speaker 2: I think had Adam Silver actually just been finding teams
Speaker 2: as much as he legally could and more consistently, that
Speaker 2: that would have eradicated the inside Like you doc owners
Speaker 2: millions of dollars enough times like yeah, that's gonna get them.
Speaker 2: So yeah, by the way, spurs under this, we'll see
Speaker 2: how lottery reform changes again. But we're never gonna see
Speaker 2: anything like this in the like quality of players maybe,
Speaker 2: but just three top five picks in successive years, that's
Speaker 2: gone now on a lot of reforms. This is just
Speaker 2: sort of like a relic of I don't think any
Speaker 2: team aspires to have three top five picks, but they
Speaker 2: were a perfect example with Dylan Harper where it was,
Speaker 2: oh we knew we were headed in the right direction
Speaker 2: and we weren't that terrible, but you ended up with
Speaker 2: Dylan Harper anyway. So I just mean unfair in the
Speaker 2: sense of, I guess that's cool, but I get the
Speaker 2: Knicks fan in me probably thinks that that's kind of unfair,
Speaker 2: like that this is the team that's gonna run the
Speaker 2: tables between that there's a reason them and okay see
Speaker 2: are still co favorites or depending on I think the
Speaker 2: thunder might have moved a favorites to win.
Speaker 1: It all next year.
Speaker 4: Yeah, nope, no further notes.
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Speaker 1: And now back to the show. Who do you want
Speaker 1: to take with a third? Overall?
Speaker 4: Pick? I have so many good options.
Speaker 3: I kind of want to talk about a guy that
Speaker 3: I don't even love all that much, but I think
Speaker 3: he's just done enough that I really need to sit
Speaker 3: up and pay more attention. And that's Donovan Klingon, so
Speaker 3: big man from the Blazers, going into his third year now.
Speaker 4: And here's the thing.
Speaker 3: I'm not really a huge clinging guy, but I think
Speaker 3: it's so interesting that he basically had this kind of
Speaker 3: modest linear improvement in everything that he did last year.
Speaker 3: So three point percentage up, finishing up, efficiency, up, assists rate,
Speaker 3: up usage, your rebounding rates.
Speaker 4: Up, up and up. The block rate fell, but by
Speaker 4: way less than his foul rate fell. So I think
Speaker 4: that's something that, like, you know, the Blazers would be
Speaker 4: happy to have, especially given that he was playing a
Speaker 4: lot more minutes, so most interestingly, his turnover rader rate
Speaker 4: dropped by like almost fifty percent, and I think given
Speaker 4: that he was handling the ball more and doing more
Speaker 4: with it, I think that's a super positive sign. I
Speaker 4: don't even think Klingon is necessarily like this all world
Speaker 4: defender necessarily yet, but he is very good at the
Speaker 4: worst and he's just somebody who I think his talent
Speaker 4: on this team is so weird.
Speaker 3: On the Blazers right because they have no spacing. Again
Speaker 3: the traded for John Morant, who is going to make
Speaker 3: that problem worse, not better. But if you have no spacing,
Speaker 3: the easiest way to create some artificially is through screening.
Speaker 3: And I think that's something where we're gonna see Clinging
Speaker 3: really take a step forward this year. I think he
Speaker 3: could be a very valuable pick and roll partner for
Speaker 3: John Morant and for in the half court at least
Speaker 3: for Danny Avdia and guys like that. Just like he
Speaker 3: started to become much better last year, and I just
Speaker 3: like the advanced numbers kind of love Clinging, even offensively
Speaker 3: where I'm like, this guy's doesn't have great hands.
Speaker 4: Stuff.
Speaker 3: He was ninetieth percentile on offensive EPM last year after
Speaker 3: being fiftieth centile.
Speaker 4: As a rookie.
Speaker 3: Like literally everything about this guy was just a step
Speaker 3: up from his first year to his second year. And
Speaker 3: we know improvement isn't linear as a whole or in
Speaker 3: the specific for guys, but.
Speaker 4: It can be, and it might be for Clinging And.
Speaker 3: Even though they have a bunch of backup centers and
Speaker 3: they have a bunch of point guards and they really
Speaker 3: don't have anyone else in between. Like I, it's just
Speaker 3: one of those things where like every single arrow is
Speaker 3: kind of pointing in the same way, and I'm going
Speaker 3: to be paying attention.
Speaker 2: He was on my list and he was not in
Speaker 2: one of my top seven, And you kind of alluded
Speaker 2: to why the lack because in theory, you're getting back
Speaker 2: a healthy Damian Lillard, you are getting back John Moran,
Speaker 2: who was a very good passer.
Speaker 1: That should help Donovan Clington.
Speaker 2: But then you view it against the backdrop of the
Speaker 2: spacing and whatever this roster is trying to be, and
Speaker 2: I don't love it. I think what probably helps him
Speaker 2: is he took a lot more threes last year, most
Speaker 2: of which were coming above the break, but I also
Speaker 2: feel uncomfortable with Donovan Clinton needs to be one of
Speaker 2: my more important floor spacers while he's on the court. Defensively,
Speaker 2: I just have no notes for him. I know you
Speaker 2: said you didn't think he was all world last year.
Speaker 2: I had him like twelve when I was making my
Speaker 2: all defensive ballots for the podcast. Just the he's been
Speaker 2: in looking at like points saved at the rim since
Speaker 2: he's entered the league, and the ninetieth percentile or higher
Speaker 2: each time. He's just absolutely massive, can be slow. But
Speaker 2: I worried when he came in the league. I was
Speaker 2: completely out on him. I was like, Oh, he's not
Speaker 2: gonna be able to hold up defensively in the NBA.
Speaker 2: I was just so wrong. And I think he gives
Speaker 2: you an actual baseline too. I don't think starting Damian
Speaker 2: Lillard and John Moran is actually a good idea. I
Speaker 2: think it's all gonna I'm sorry, Belationships. I think it's
Speaker 2: all gonna end very badly. Maybe I'll be proven wrong.
Speaker 2: But having Donovan Klingen as a backstop in addition to
Speaker 2: you still do have a jew holiday to Mani Kamara
Speaker 2: our luxuries. Other teams don't. I just don't know what
Speaker 2: the offensive development can look like for him, and he
Speaker 2: was more efficient last year. I think then you have
Speaker 2: like league average true shooting, which when you're factoring in
Speaker 2: that he was taking threes, I'll take it. I don't
Speaker 2: trust the hands still, and so we're gonna have to
Speaker 2: see like he's dealing with a bunch of different types
Speaker 2: of passers now too, when you look at jaw and
Speaker 2: Damian Lillard or Denny Avda. So how are most of
Speaker 2: his points going to come? That's why I boot him
Speaker 2: out of the top seven is I don't trust I
Speaker 2: now trust the player, I do not trust the environment.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I'm all, so that's probably Truely, I'm not expecting
Speaker 3: him to suddenly be like an eighteen point pre game score.
Speaker 3: I just think that, like if he keeps making these improvements,
Speaker 3: and I kind of think that the reason why the
Speaker 3: environment is so bad for the team is kind of
Speaker 3: why it might be good for him. There's gonna be
Speaker 3: a lot of misses, there's gonna be a lot of opportunity.
Speaker 3: He led the league in offensive rebounding last year. I
Speaker 3: think he could easily do it again. I think, like
Speaker 3: I said, I think he has to become an important
Speaker 3: part of Like there's gonna be a lot more pick
Speaker 3: and roll with John Morant on the court than there
Speaker 3: was last year, where it was like, can we run
Speaker 3: as fast as we can with Denny Avdue a straight
Speaker 3: at the rim? And I think if you're going to
Speaker 3: be having and I think if you have Lillard out there,
Speaker 3: like he's gonna need to have.
Speaker 4: Some space for his pull up threes, And I think
Speaker 4: we're just gonna.
Speaker 3: See Clinging doing a ton like a lot more in
Speaker 3: the offense in a way that maybe it doesn't result
Speaker 3: in like these all star box score numbers, but he's
Speaker 3: just going to become an essential part of what they're
Speaker 3: doing on both Like he's already essential on defense, he's
Speaker 3: gonna become a much more essential part of what they're
Speaker 3: doing on offense. Besides just like, hey, look a seven
Speaker 3: footer who sometimes shoots three pointers. I think we're gonna
Speaker 3: see a lot more clinging, even if it doesn't necessarily
Speaker 3: mean that he's putting up these gutty point totals.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm I'm it's more of a car crash theory
Speaker 2: with the Blazers. I'm morbidly curious to see what this
Speaker 2: team looks like next year. And I don't mean that
Speaker 2: as a shot at Donovan cling in the roster construction
Speaker 2: right now just doesn't make.
Speaker 3: A I wish they would make a trade with the
Speaker 3: Dallas Mavericks, who are nothing but power forwards and shooting
Speaker 3: guards and people in between, for one of these point.
Speaker 4: Guards, right.
Speaker 3: I don't care if it's Screwed. I don't care if
Speaker 3: it's Drew Holliday, I don't care if it's job or Lillard.
Speaker 3: Just like, trade one of those guys to to the Mavericks,
Speaker 3: and both these teams would be so much substantially better.
Speaker 4: We can do it.
Speaker 1: Let's make it happen.
Speaker 2: And look it's we're we're entering like the dead capslock
Speaker 2: dead portion of the NBA summer. So give us something
Speaker 2: to talk about with a nice little Blazer's Mavericks out right.
Speaker 4: The Blazers also sneakily have two guys.
Speaker 3: And it's kind of funny because I know that on
Speaker 3: this podcast, you guys have been uh dwop wreath fans
Speaker 3: for a long time, and so I think back, like,
Speaker 3: it's kind of funny that the Blazers now have like
Speaker 3: two stretch fives that are basically never gonna play that
Speaker 3: I feel like would fit half like half the league
Speaker 3: in Michaeh Potter and Bredon Brandon Carlson.
Speaker 2: So like what am I missing with Michael Potter that
Speaker 2: no other team thought like? This felt like greedy on
Speaker 2: the Blazers or was it a precursor to you know what,
Speaker 2: We're not gonna pay Donovan Klingen because of Tom Dundan,
Speaker 2: and we're just gonna be like Michael Pott is gonna
Speaker 2: be super cheap until the end of time.
Speaker 3: Over the Top paid a lot for Robert Williams too,
Speaker 3: and they have Young Hansom. They have so many centers
Speaker 3: on this team.
Speaker 2: I still still believer and he'll go down as maybe
Speaker 2: a summer league legend. But I'm still believe in Young
Speaker 2: Handsome too. I just don't know how you find the minutes.
Speaker 2: Let's see, do I want to go? I'll stay on
Speaker 2: the beaten path. Here a little bit for pick number four,
Speaker 2: Brendon Miller. I mean one, if you're a Hornets fan,
Speaker 2: you need him to go in this draft because I
Speaker 2: do think as much as people viewed the LaMelo trade
Speaker 2: as they are just getting out of the lamellow ball business,
Speaker 2: this really had to be a vote of confidence I
Speaker 2: think in Brendon Miller and also Continentipple. But I look
Speaker 2: at Brendon Miller, maybe he's front of mine because he's
Speaker 2: extension eligible and has you have to sign one. As
Speaker 2: we've recorded. This also very weird by the way, Mike
Speaker 2: Wemby being the only rookie extension we've gotten so far.
Speaker 2: This is atypical, right, Like normally we get more rookie
Speaker 2: extensions than this by now.
Speaker 3: Yeah, teams are playing a little harder ball, I think
Speaker 3: than the rookies are used to, right, So I'm curious
Speaker 3: to see if this leads into like a resurgence and
Speaker 3: unrestricted free agency at some point, or if they are
Speaker 3: all just going to kind of settle in with unhappy
Speaker 3: restricted free agency numbers at some point.
Speaker 2: You might have covered some of this at Basketball Poetry recently,
Speaker 2: rumor hasn't it, So go check out basketball tiny bit.
Speaker 4: Yeah just a time bit, nice plug. Appreciate you. That's
Speaker 4: that's the sign of a pro right there.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I've been doing this for just a couple of
Speaker 2: years now, almost two weeks.
Speaker 1: I think so Bredon Miller.
Speaker 2: I do think that people probably underestimated, like how much
Speaker 2: of the offense has been funneled his way when he's
Speaker 2: healthy and on the floor. Even when LaMelo is there,
Speaker 2: that's question number one is is he going to stay healthy?
Speaker 2: If he can, what level can he get? Because as
Speaker 2: an on ball score I trust him as a jump
Speaker 2: shooter for the most part, it's getting to his spots
Speaker 2: from the mid range. I need to see the free
Speaker 2: throw attempt rate getting to the basket come up. He's
Speaker 2: routinely just ranked. I mean, he's never ranked higher, I
Speaker 2: think per CpG than the twenty first percentile in rim frequency.
Speaker 2: In theory, the hornets have a ton of spacing, but
Speaker 2: so that should make it easier for him to get there.
Speaker 2: But he's not getting a ton of unassisted looks at
Speaker 2: the rim in generals, that's something that's gonna come up.
Speaker 2: What happens when they rely on him to be more
Speaker 2: of a facilitator. I know people have been I don't
Speaker 2: want to say out but just kind of written off
Speaker 2: the defense. I think the defense for what he's going
Speaker 2: to need to do offensively, if he is what he
Speaker 2: is now, is going to be mostly fine for me.
Speaker 2: I just don't know what removing LaMelo from the equation
Speaker 2: does because the numbers with Continipple, Brandon Miller, Nolamela weren't flattering.
Speaker 2: But we also don't have the data on a Kobe
Speaker 2: White like or a ton of data on a Kobe
Speaker 2: White being there. I think my biggest concern with him
Speaker 2: is that Kobe White is not the same level or
Speaker 2: anywhere no one on the shrowster the same level of
Speaker 2: playmaking safety net that LaMelo was.
Speaker 1: I don't know that.
Speaker 2: Defenses are going to react to Kobe White or even
Speaker 2: to know a little bit more marinated Conkinipple the same
Speaker 2: way that they were to LaMelo Ball. Brandon Miller is
Speaker 2: now that guy, and so what does he do with
Speaker 2: seeing more double teams, having to take more difficult shots?
Speaker 2: And so I think the big thing for him, I
Speaker 2: don't know if the room frequency is going to come
Speaker 2: up a ton again, the spacing environment, it might. I
Speaker 2: think if he's able to kind of draw a higher
Speaker 2: percentage of shooting files, that might be a key to
Speaker 2: unlocking more offensively for him. But just the on ball
Speaker 2: opportunity he's gonna have, which again I think was a
Speaker 2: little bit higher than people already than people realized that
Speaker 2: now kind of goes through the roof unless you really
Speaker 2: think that the Hornets are in a funnel so much
Speaker 2: of their offense to Kobe White continentple specifically, And I
Speaker 2: know a lot of people are high on I don't
Speaker 2: see it with Christian Anderson personally, but I'll leave that
Speaker 2: to the draft knicks who watched more of him.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I echo some of those same concerns.
Speaker 3: Like my frustration with Brandon Miller is entirely the lack
Speaker 3: of physicality he plays with on both sides. And I
Speaker 3: actually think he had a pretty good defensive year last year.
Speaker 3: And I don't know if this is because people thought
Speaker 3: he's gonna be a really good defender his rookie year,
Speaker 3: like that was supposed to be. One of the things
Speaker 3: about him was he was a two way player and
Speaker 3: then he was pretty bad as a rookie. But I
Speaker 3: think he bounced back pretty solidly.
Speaker 4: And that not that he's going to be making any
Speaker 4: all defensive teams anytime soon.
Speaker 3: But I think, like you said, like I think he
Speaker 3: was more than good enough for the role he carries
Speaker 3: on offense last year already, So I if he gets
Speaker 3: even better on that end, like I think we'll really
Speaker 3: have something there. But like, no, this is a nugget
Speaker 3: I've been sitting on like for twelve months, and I
Speaker 3: have not been able to find a way to work
Speaker 3: it into my writing. Nobody loses more fifty fifty balls
Speaker 3: than Brandon Miller, and that sounds cruel, And there's some
Speaker 3: explanation for it, like he had shoulder surgery, and I
Speaker 3: think part of it is like he's not trying to
Speaker 3: get in the mix and mess up his shoulder again. Like,
Speaker 3: but I have like multiple like I have several clips
Speaker 3: of him, like watching the ball bounce to him and
Speaker 3: then like retreating or standing still while someone else.
Speaker 4: Is diving on top of it.
Speaker 3: Like this man is not getting the fifty fifty balls
Speaker 3: and he just doesn't play quite with enough physicality to
Speaker 3: get to the rim like you were saying where he
Speaker 3: alway struggled.
Speaker 4: He can get bullied defensively.
Speaker 3: But like the jumper is real, like he can definitely
Speaker 3: do stuff with the ball. I think to your point,
Speaker 3: like there's not a ton of playmaking on this roster.
Speaker 3: There's not a lot of plus passers, but there is
Speaker 3: just so much spacing, Like the passing lane should be
Speaker 3: wide open.
Speaker 4: Guy should be able to get into the paint pretty easily.
Speaker 3: I don't know what this is going to look like because,
Speaker 3: like you, I'm also a big LaMelo ball guy. Like you,
Speaker 3: I looked at the clean the glass number for Brandon Miller.
Speaker 3: Brandon Miller playing without LaMelo ball was like a twelve
Speaker 3: percentile offensive. Right, And Kobe White's a good player, he's
Speaker 3: not a real point guard. So I am nervous about
Speaker 3: Brandon Miller. I also just think like he's already pretty good,
Speaker 3: Like I don't mean to say all these bad things
Speaker 3: about like he's already a good player, and how much
Speaker 3: better can he realistically be? He's already been a two
Speaker 3: time twenty point score. Like the jumper is getting better
Speaker 3: over time, he's not. But he's not really outside of
Speaker 3: the defense, which I think substantially improved. I haven't noticed
Speaker 3: that he's gotten a ton better at some of the
Speaker 3: things he's bad out on offense, right, I still think
Speaker 3: he's like an okay passer for the position. He still
Speaker 3: can't get to the rim still, like you know, isn't
Speaker 3: drying the free throws that you want him too.
Speaker 4: So I don't know if he's got it in him.
Speaker 3: But I that's more because I think he's already good
Speaker 3: and I already respect him, and I'm not sure that
Speaker 3: this is like the system that is going to lead
Speaker 3: to a massive explosion in Brandon Miller's stats or anything
Speaker 3: like that.
Speaker 2: To me, it almost feels like they need him to
Speaker 2: be a The scoring can maybe stay somewhat the same,
Speaker 2: but they kind of feels like they need him to
Speaker 2: be like a twenty four point four or five assist guy.
Speaker 2: If they're trying to spin this as we reoriented, we
Speaker 2: didn't start over because if you ask me right now,
Speaker 2: let's say they had to trade one of their core
Speaker 2: three players last year, you're probably just keeping Conn because
Speaker 2: of the link on his rookie deal, and you asked
Speaker 2: me whether it was LaMelo or Brandon Miller, I would
Speaker 2: have picked that.
Speaker 4: You.
Speaker 2: No, you need to trade Brandon Miller. I think is
Speaker 2: a like a rebuilding base or building block baseline. LaMelo
Speaker 2: is going to do more for you. To me, this,
Speaker 2: if it's not a bet on him and Conkk Nipple,
Speaker 2: I don't know, then it's really they just wanted to
Speaker 2: get out of little Mellow ball business, which is one
Speaker 2: of many ways to look at that trade this If
Speaker 2: he's not in most improved or All Star discussions for
Speaker 2: them mid season. I don't think that makes the Lamello
Speaker 2: trade of failure necessarily. But then it's well, now we
Speaker 2: need to trickle down and step back. What was the
Speaker 2: what was the thought what was the additional thought process
Speaker 2: behind this trade? They need him, they need us to
Speaker 2: come away thinking, Oh, this is someone who is going
Speaker 2: to hit an even higher percentage of self created looks.
Speaker 2: This is going to be someone who can get to
Speaker 2: four or five assist per game, play with more physicality,
Speaker 2: get to the rim, more, draw more shooting fouls. I
Speaker 2: think the just with the dynamics that he works with
Speaker 2: on ball, I feel like we could see him take
Speaker 2: more free throws. But this is I'm intrigued because I
Speaker 2: do still remain skeptical in the sense of is this
Speaker 2: close to the best that he'll be? Where is Oh,
Speaker 2: you could see him being like a top fifty, top
Speaker 2: sixty player in the NBA. But if he can't ratchet
Speaker 2: up to the I say, like top thirty level, this
Speaker 2: team has done the lots on the shoulders of Conk Nipple,
Speaker 2: and I guess, like Joanna Steinbach or like the an
Speaker 2: acquisition to be named later.
Speaker 3: Well, what if I said that, if you looked at
Speaker 3: all the hornets, This Brandon Miller wouldn't have been the
Speaker 3: first guy that I would have picked for a breakout.
Speaker 3: And I'm not kind of conton Kinipple, right like, obviously
Speaker 3: this guy almost won rookie the year he's.
Speaker 4: Oh, can I guess?
Speaker 1: Can I try and guess?
Speaker 4: Absolutely?
Speaker 1: Is it Liam McNeely?
Speaker 4: Well, you know you say that?
Speaker 3: And he was there and eventually I cut him because
Speaker 3: that's two sickos only, I think, But I was thinking
Speaker 3: a different.
Speaker 2: Player, uh because diabate count has already broken out?
Speaker 4: Yes?
Speaker 2: Uh?
Speaker 1: Man?
Speaker 2: Who am I? Who am I missing on this team?
Speaker 1: Is this going to be.
Speaker 2: A you said it's not sick Oh?
Speaker 3: I do love Seon James, and I do think that
Speaker 3: he is gonna end up playing a lot more minutes
Speaker 3: than like people realize.
Speaker 4: Actually, but no, that Sion's never gonna be a guy.
Speaker 3: I don't think that comes out and is like scoring
Speaker 3: twenty points a game, right, Like that's just not really
Speaker 3: hit his DNA.
Speaker 2: Who I'm assuming it's not Ryan Kulchbrenner. Who who do
Speaker 2: we got?
Speaker 4: Who is it? How about nos Reed?
Speaker 1: There you go.
Speaker 3: I think that if you're looking at one guy and
Speaker 3: I'm leaving out Cohn because I do think everyone expects
Speaker 3: and hopes that cont takes a leap, which maybe that's hard,
Speaker 3: you know, easier said than done, given that he had
Speaker 3: such a great rookie year. But I think nas Reed's
Speaker 3: a guy who's coming in, you know, like a thirteen
Speaker 3: fourteen point score whatever it was last year, but he's
Speaker 3: a real bucket and he's taken over for Miles Bridges,
Speaker 3: who you know, was routinely an eighteen twenty point score. Like,
Speaker 3: I think the usage gap is going to be there
Speaker 3: for Noried to come in. And I think Nosried is
Speaker 3: a better offensive player than Miles Bridges. I think he's
Speaker 3: got an amazing face up game for a real power forward.
Speaker 3: I think he's you know, a much better shooter than
Speaker 3: Miles Bridges. He's not that athlete that Bridges was, and
Speaker 3: he's not gonna have Lamello feeding him the ball. Like
Speaker 3: there's a lot of guys who are, if not shoot first,
Speaker 3: like shoot equal to passing on this Hornets team. So
Speaker 3: maybe it's just that Read isn't going to get as
Speaker 3: many opportunities as I kind of think he is. But
Speaker 3: if we're just talking like Hornet lambs. I think Brandon
Speaker 3: Miller is probably going to be like a low twenty
Speaker 3: score again. But I wonder if I was Reid can't
Speaker 3: get up from thirteen to like the Miles Bridges eighteen
Speaker 3: points per game, Like, I could absolutely see that fornas
Speaker 3: Read because I just have so much faith in him
Speaker 3: as a score.
Speaker 2: Wait nots Reid only average thirteen points a game.
Speaker 3: Maybe it was fourteen, but it was it was not
Speaker 3: as many as as you might recall last year, right,
Speaker 3: thirteen point six, thirteen pointy six.
Speaker 2: Why do I just constantly remember him putting up like eighteen.
Speaker 3: Because he makes it look so good, like he's like
Speaker 3: a center sized dude with like a filthy handle, and
Speaker 3: it yeah free when he scores.
Speaker 1: I'm like a half decade ago.
Speaker 2: I don't know how many like people's radars he was on,
Speaker 2: But if you told me that he had the type
Speaker 2: of floor game where it looks like, oh, that's like
Speaker 2: a wing, like true wing handling the ball, I never
Speaker 2: would have been able to predict that, my.
Speaker 3: God, and Read is a true play finisher right like
Speaker 3: he is not once the ball gets to him, it's
Speaker 3: going up, you know, So I but like I'm taking
Speaker 3: a step back. I think that the fun part about
Speaker 3: the Hornets if you are an optimist about the LaMelo
Speaker 3: ball move, which I'm not really, but I see the
Speaker 3: upside here. The fun part is they have so many
Speaker 3: outs because Brandon Miller could make a big leap, Like
Speaker 3: I don't necessarily see it, but you do, and like
Speaker 3: I absolutely think it could happen. Kank Nipple could make
Speaker 3: a huge leap. Maybe Kobe White could make a leap.
Speaker 3: Like he's not like an old guy, He's somebody who's
Speaker 3: been looking for an opportunity with the most talented running cast.
Speaker 2: He's one of those guys I think playing for the
Speaker 2: Bulls anecdotally ages you, and so it feels like he's
Speaker 2: been around forever.
Speaker 3: Well it literally ages you if you're in the Tom
Speaker 3: Dibbodeaux era, right, like what happened to port like all
Speaker 3: those guys? Uh but yeah, so, Like I just think
Speaker 3: the Hornets are so fun and exciting because they do
Speaker 3: have so many guys that you can talk yourself into
Speaker 3: taking the next big leap.
Speaker 4: And some of those guys are gonna hit. They're not.
Speaker 3: They won't all they can't all right, they can't all
Speaker 3: turn into twenty point scores, but somebody will maybe too,
Speaker 3: Someone's will and that's gonna be like really exciting. Like
Speaker 3: I'm bias because I am based out of Carolina, North Carolina.
Speaker 3: So like last year and I listen, I live in
Speaker 3: the Triangle. Last year was the first time in my
Speaker 3: six years living here that I've seen a single piece
Speaker 3: of Hornets like gear walking around town.
Speaker 4: It was just not a factor.
Speaker 3: And now they were so like they had such a
Speaker 3: cool run last year if I've got really excited, obviously
Speaker 3: flamed out and people are mad about the ball trade,
Speaker 3: but the Duke connection between Conk Nipple and Syon James
Speaker 3: being there, and I think one of the plum leaves
Speaker 3: was there last year briefly, Like people are excited about
Speaker 3: that and just like there's at least a little buzz
Speaker 3: no pun intended around the Hornets this year, and I'm
Speaker 3: hoping that can carry through.
Speaker 2: They're they're just another I'm fascinated by every team, but
Speaker 2: they're not for the amount of people that think they're
Speaker 2: either still going to be good or might be better
Speaker 2: off without LaMelo Ball, I think just inherently makes them fat.
Speaker 2: I don't think internally they think they're going to be
Speaker 2: better or how the type of run that they did
Speaker 2: last year. I think they made the trade knowing it
Speaker 2: was going to be a step back, but yeah they have.
Speaker 2: For for a while it was a oh if they're healthy.
Speaker 2: They just have so many dudes, And now it's the
Speaker 2: same thing, except like the level of dudes that they
Speaker 2: have because Conkinipple's there, Nasried is there, Moussa Yabade, this
Speaker 2: is the version of him you have. It's higher level
Speaker 2: dudes now, and so yeah, this team should be fun
Speaker 2: to watch. Who'd you want to take with we're moving
Speaker 2: at a banner pace? Yeah? Who do you want to
Speaker 2: take with your number? This is a fifth pick overall?
Speaker 2: Your your third pick?
Speaker 3: Yeah, no, feel free to cut me off, because I
Speaker 3: do go off tangents. I You know, one of the
Speaker 3: nice thing about writing is that you can basically write
Speaker 3: as much as you want and no one's there to
Speaker 3: tell you.
Speaker 4: No, we have time, like I have to go and
Speaker 4: do whatever.
Speaker 1: What do you find easier writing or podcasting? Because we
Speaker 1: both do both?
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, well writing is more time intensive just because
Speaker 3: like for me at least, like it takes me so
Speaker 3: long to edit, Like I am so bad.
Speaker 4: I have such sloppy copy. This is like, oh, really
Speaker 4: personal problem is my first drafts are rough and I
Speaker 4: need to go back through and fix it. And that's
Speaker 4: what takes me forever. Getting the first words down are fine.
Speaker 3: But then like I just like never had the formal
Speaker 3: training to like have this like really pristine copy when
Speaker 3: you write.
Speaker 4: That saves you so much time.
Speaker 3: That's what the pros need, right, Like, if you're someone
Speaker 3: out there working for a newspaper or on deadline, you
Speaker 3: need you how to get down with no typos, with
Speaker 3: no like you know, reward. You need to get that
Speaker 3: downe fast. And it's such a skill, a nice skill
Speaker 3: to have, and I don't have that. I'm meandering. My
Speaker 3: stuff goes off in weird directions. I have to be like, okay,
Speaker 3: let's rein it back in. I have typos everywhere. It's
Speaker 3: a disaster.
Speaker 2: I think I might enjoy writing more, But podcasting is
Speaker 2: way easier to me where it's like if you had
Speaker 2: like a yeah podcast, because there's just less structure to
Speaker 2: it and so you can meandering is part of the point.
Speaker 2: These tangents are part of the point. Yeah, in podcasting.
Speaker 2: If I put that in my writing, I'm gonna get
Speaker 2: an email from somebody because they're like, why did you
Speaker 2: spend two hundred fifty words talking about nothing that has
Speaker 2: to do with Brandon Miller and the Charlotte Hornets on
Speaker 2: this Brandon Miller and the Charlotte Hornets blurb, I.
Speaker 3: Would just get a comment being like I need a TLDR.
Speaker 3: I'm not reading all this. I love those comments with
Speaker 3: my favor when I when I write, you know, three
Speaker 3: thousand words, we're like this is too long, and I'm like, yeah,
Speaker 3: I wasn't really meant for you then, Bud, Yeah.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I like that people feel compelled to chime in
Speaker 2: though and say that, but because I just don't understand
Speaker 2: the point.
Speaker 4: But all right, let's see here.
Speaker 3: I've got a long list, and actually none of your
Speaker 3: guys were on like my my short list, which is
Speaker 3: which is fun.
Speaker 4: But I think let's talk, you know it, let's do it.
Speaker 4: Let's I was kind of hoping you would say this
Speaker 4: guy's name just so I wouldn't have to do it first.
Speaker 4: But let's talk about Yegor Joemen. Oh, yes, which.
Speaker 2: Yes, he was my next pick. This is our first
Speaker 2: this is the first one where it's oh, I was
Speaker 2: going to.
Speaker 1: Take him nice.
Speaker 3: Yeah, No, I all right, listen, I don't do any
Speaker 3: like you do. A little college stuff and a little
Speaker 3: bit of scouting and stuff. I don't do any of that,
Speaker 3: right Like my my entire life is based around the NBA,
Speaker 3: which makes me just like I told you before, I
Speaker 3: have no fun to talk to a parties, So I
Speaker 3: don't know who any of the guys are until they
Speaker 3: come into the league proper and to all like the
Speaker 3: draft knicks and the you know, the armchair scouts out
Speaker 3: there who are writing up stuff about Joeman. I just
Speaker 3: want to say thanks for nothing, guys. This guy was
Speaker 3: nothing like he was supposed to be. I was picturing
Speaker 3: Josh Gutty pire like he's tall, he can handle, He's
Speaker 3: this amazing passer. The shot, we don't really think it's
Speaker 3: gonna be any good, So I'm picturing like, you know,
Speaker 3: European Josh Giddy, and instead I get like a Dante
Speaker 3: Evincenzo or somebody you know.
Speaker 4: This guy comes in.
Speaker 3: He seventy percent of his shots came from three and
Speaker 3: he hit thirty nine percent of them. This is one
Speaker 3: of the greatest rookie shooting seasons we've ever seen, combining
Speaker 3: accuracy and.
Speaker 1: Volume was a strong suit, though Mike shooting wasn't.
Speaker 3: A strong suit, but passing was. Except he couldn't pass
Speaker 3: anybody because he was so slow. He could never get
Speaker 3: into the paint. The reason he shot so many threes
Speaker 3: is because he was physically incapable of making a layup
Speaker 3: or getting two feet into the paint and passing out
Speaker 3: to somebody. So like, as far as I know, the
Speaker 3: passing is like a unicorn, I've never seen it. He
Speaker 3: gets like three assists from swinging the ball around on
Speaker 3: the outside of the perimeter and then someone will make
Speaker 3: a shot. But he is on here because he had
Speaker 3: a pretty fun summer league. He just looked different. He
Speaker 3: had like a much more you know, like NBA ready body.
Speaker 3: He looked way more explosive. It very clearly he knew
Speaker 3: what he had to do, which is like I need
Speaker 3: to find a way to bully my way into paint.
Speaker 3: Like he's never gonna be the fastest guy out there,
Speaker 3: but he did look noticeably faster. So like, even though
Speaker 3: I don't think that, you know, Joeman's gonna be coming in,
Speaker 3: He's not gonna be living at the rim, He's not
Speaker 3: gonna be throwing down windmill dunks or anything. But I
Speaker 3: do think it's interesting that he had uh man, I
Speaker 3: wrote this up in my in one of my articles,
Speaker 3: and I'm blanking on the exact number, but.
Speaker 4: I think he had like two dunks all of last
Speaker 4: year or something crazy, and I watched one game where
Speaker 4: he had three.
Speaker 3: Okay, Like he's definitely going to be Okay, he had
Speaker 3: four dunks all of last season in the NBA, and
Speaker 3: he played like, you know, thirteen hundred minutes he had
Speaker 3: he had two and one or three and one game
Speaker 3: that I watched in summer League. Like, I think he
Speaker 3: is like aware of what his shortcomings were. He has
Speaker 3: these strengths that nobody expected.
Speaker 4: And if you can if.
Speaker 3: You're you know, big and can shoot, there was always
Speaker 3: going to be a place for you. And if you
Speaker 3: can figure out a way to leverage the passing, which
Speaker 3: I assume exists by actually like bending the defense a
Speaker 3: little bit, then I think there's gonna like there's nobody
Speaker 3: else in Brooklyn who's gonna be really like, you know,
Speaker 3: taking his usage. Like yeah, Julius Randalls there, Michael Porter
Speaker 3: Junior's there. We'll see if either of them like last
Speaker 3: through the season. And either way, like that's still only
Speaker 3: two guys. Like, I think that there's a lot of
Speaker 3: room for a gentleman to like takeing the larger usage
Speaker 3: burden and hopefully show more of what had people so
Speaker 3: excited about him in the first place, combined with this
Speaker 3: new thing that.
Speaker 4: Has people like me excited. So I'm really pump for Joan.
Speaker 2: I do you think he did I'm not sure how
Speaker 2: much have you caught him, cause I know you were
Speaker 2: at sumer League. Do you think he did a better
Speaker 2: job of bending the defense while he was at Summer League?
Speaker 4: I like, I only saw it.
Speaker 3: I only watched one and a half of his games,
Speaker 3: but it was like noticeably different, and the quality of
Speaker 3: competitions so much worse, and the offensive structure so much worse. Like,
Speaker 3: I think both those things should be noted that like
Speaker 3: it's a sloppier brand of basketball. It doesn't always translate,
Speaker 3: but like the physical improvements are noticeable.
Speaker 2: Right, It did not feel as if he was Sometimes
Speaker 2: felt like he was moving when he had the ball
Speaker 2: last year, which by the way, was way less than
Speaker 2: I thought he was going to have the ball last year.
Speaker 2: It felt like he was moving with cinder blocks for shoes. Yeah,
Speaker 2: sometimes it did not look that way in Summer League.
Speaker 2: And the other thing that really stood out, Now this
Speaker 2: isn't historically necessarily like the best translatable stat but I'm
Speaker 2: willing to throw it out the window because he's technically
Speaker 2: a sophomore actually getting to the foul line four point
Speaker 2: nine free throw attempts for thirty six minutes in summer
Speaker 2: league after what was at one point eight as a rookie,
Speaker 2: and I think when he was in Summer League as
Speaker 2: a rookie, it was zero point nine or something for
Speaker 2: thirty six minutes in the summer league. So if he's
Speaker 2: able to like add that to and I do think
Speaker 2: there's gonna be a better passer. He has better targets
Speaker 2: now too, Like so MPJ is there. I really do
Speaker 2: like Mikeel Brown junior. Those two I think are pretty intuitive.
Speaker 2: Away from the ball you kind of I was still
Speaker 2: gonna pick him. My only hesitance was is, well, how
Speaker 2: much of the offensive share does Julius rand will just
Speaker 2: eat up? And it forces jaeg or Joman not to
Speaker 2: be bad, but to kind of be the player that
Speaker 2: he was last year. I don't think Jordi Fernandez will
Speaker 2: do that. I think he will be given the time
Speaker 2: and space to explore on offense, and I'm really excited
Speaker 2: about what some of their lineups can do when you're
Speaker 2: looking at if they play MIKEL Brown junior, Michael Borter junior,
Speaker 2: and Yegor Joeman together a ton because I think that
Speaker 2: there's just a lot of fun things that that they
Speaker 2: could try, especially in the half court. And so this
Speaker 2: is I not that I'm unhappy he had a good
Speaker 2: Summer League, but I was people were sitting there, they
Speaker 2: reduced the nets this draft down to oh, they drafted
Speaker 2: five point guards, which it was always just an over
Speaker 2: like I don't know what Danny Wolf was supposed to be,
Speaker 2: but it definitely wasn't a point guard. But I was
Speaker 2: still a believer in Yegorgonuman by the end of last year,
Speaker 2: and so it's now it's now it's like cool and trendy. Uh,
Speaker 2: you clearly believe in them, but like now it's the
Speaker 2: cool and trendy to pick him as a breakout. He
Speaker 2: would have been I think a Deeper Cup candidate if
Speaker 2: Summer League never happens.
Speaker 4: Yeah, you know he was.
Speaker 3: He was actually a second team All rookie for me,
Speaker 3: because there is no sixty five game rule for all
Speaker 3: rookie teams, and he only played like fifty two last
Speaker 3: year and he still made the last spout of my
Speaker 3: all rookie team. So I've just like always been a
Speaker 3: fan of Like, if you're big, like I said, if
Speaker 3: you're a biguy who can shoot, you're always gonna have
Speaker 3: some kind of value. I think defensively, he's not a
Speaker 3: total disaster despite how solowly is, because he's go pretty
Speaker 3: good instincts.
Speaker 4: So like, I just yeah, I just think that like
Speaker 4: he's going to be.
Speaker 3: He is primed to have a much stronger second year
Speaker 3: than we saw. Literally, so I'm excited for that.
Speaker 2: This pick everyone I think knew was coming. We had
Speaker 2: some early commenters pointed out in the chat that they
Speaker 2: knew it was coming as well, Reed Shepherd of the
Speaker 2: Houston Rockets.
Speaker 1: Now this is this is the one I was referencing
Speaker 1: at the top.
Speaker 2: One says he needs to be undeniable because imy Udoka
Speaker 2: I didn't think trust even though he played a boatload
Speaker 2: more last year. Imy Yuka clearly didn't trust him with
Speaker 2: the ball in his hands when it mattered most. Now
Speaker 2: you look at the end of that was that Game
Speaker 2: three against the Lakers, and you can understand why the
Speaker 2: man I trust.
Speaker 1: Him with the ball.
Speaker 2: It's only gonna get harder for him to break out,
Speaker 2: which is why I'm so interested in him. Fred van
Speaker 2: Vliet is healthy. And then this team signed Marcus Smart
Speaker 2: for some reason. Who if you think you needed a
Speaker 2: reserve ball handler, Marcus Smart really isn't the guy, like
Speaker 2: when you look at how much he can still turn
Speaker 2: the ball over when he gets going downhill, or if
Speaker 2: you want him to run a pick and roll up.
Speaker 2: I found that signing. If I if I had Reed
Speaker 2: Shepherd's stock and was ever inclined to sell it, which
Speaker 2: I will never, that might have been the move that
Speaker 2: made me sell it, because it's I don't think I'm
Speaker 2: wondering internally how highly they view of him. With that said,
Speaker 2: he looks he looks way smaller on the court than
Speaker 2: he's listed. But my key is, I know it's accounting
Speaker 2: stat but here's everyone who through their first two seasons
Speaker 2: of basketball and mind Reed Sheepherd did not play a
Speaker 2: ton as a rookie, made as many threes, had as
Speaker 2: many blocks, and had as many steals as Reed Shepherd.
Speaker 2: Tyre's Halliburton Anthony Edwards. That is the end of the list,
Speaker 2: and so I think his defensive playmaking. My point here
Speaker 2: is like, yeah, he's gonna get picked on on defense,
Speaker 2: but he will also come up with these blocks. He
Speaker 2: will come up with these steels in passing lanes or
Speaker 2: even some of the pickpockets. That's valuable, and for a team,
Speaker 2: even more valuable. What I think can make him undeniable
Speaker 2: is the shot making. He doesn't need to be on
Speaker 2: the ball to pull defenders out of the paint. And
Speaker 2: I do think that there's more to plum with him
Speaker 2: on the ball where he's not the most physical ball handler.
Speaker 2: But I need to see it more because this is
Speaker 2: someone who's in between game. I know what the numbers
Speaker 2: are going to say, but I'm going to trust it,
Speaker 2: and I think that he's going to be able to
Speaker 2: hit off the dribble threes. I am not. I think
Speaker 2: I am there. This is more like a free read
Speaker 2: Shepherd segment. I think because I'm increasingly of the belief
Speaker 2: that it won't happen with the Rockets, But I still
Speaker 2: believe that the player coming into the draft that I
Speaker 2: thought was there and he was number he ended up
Speaker 2: being number one on my big board. This is couch swift.
Speaker 2: Would you like to know who was number two on
Speaker 2: my big board? That Cody Williams.
Speaker 4: Cody Williams guy.
Speaker 2: So some might say I was too much of a
Speaker 2: Cody Williams guy.
Speaker 4: Impossible.
Speaker 2: So this is if you if you forced me to
Speaker 2: make a prediction. Do I think that this is we
Speaker 2: look back? Is like this is the Reed Shepherd breakout year.
Speaker 2: I'm gonna be inclined to say no because I don't
Speaker 2: love the ecosystem. For it's not even I don't love
Speaker 2: the ecosystem. I don't know the organization has the same
Speaker 2: trust in him or belief in him that I do.
Speaker 2: Because I think that he could if you said here
Speaker 2: you're starting, or here's thirty minutes a game, you're going
Speaker 2: to be a primary ball handler. I actually think Houston's
Speaker 2: offense would be better off than if they're gonna do
Speaker 2: the you know, we have Katie, Yeah, sure, but we're
Speaker 2: gonna run through Shannghud, have Thompson on the ball, so
Speaker 2: we need to then also Fred van Fleet and Marcus
Speaker 2: Mart's gonna have to play. I fear he's gonna get
Speaker 2: lost in the shuffle. And I still think he's too
Speaker 2: good for us to be having that discussion, and it
Speaker 2: bugs me that I'm I'm the one who's having it
Speaker 2: with himself at this at this very moment.
Speaker 3: Yeah, you know, I think you just touched upon the
Speaker 3: crux of it a little bit, right, like is he
Speaker 3: ever going to be able to be the point guard?
Speaker 3: And let's remove the Emu Dooka like rocketsness of it all,
Speaker 3: because I do think the one problem that I had
Speaker 3: and one of the things I was super disappointed about
Speaker 3: him is like the lack of a first step and frankly,
Speaker 3: the lack of a handle. Like you pressure him in
Speaker 3: the back court, you're gonna get a turnover as often
Speaker 3: as not. And like you know, I don't want to
Speaker 3: point to like the playoffs and like some of his
Speaker 3: disaster some moments there, but he had he did not
Speaker 3: look good under the spotlights.
Speaker 4: And you know, he's a second year player.
Speaker 3: Obviously that's any as somebody who frankly, if I was him,
Speaker 3: like I'd be crying every night because my coach hates
Speaker 3: me so much, you know, Like that's that has to
Speaker 3: take a mental toll on you. And I still have
Speaker 3: a lot of faith in him long term as a player.
Speaker 3: I don't know if he's just ever gonna be able
Speaker 3: to be a point guard if he can't like navigate
Speaker 3: a picking, and like the shooting is such a weapon,
Speaker 3: maybe he can just generate it that way. But he's
Speaker 3: just so slow and he is such a weak handle
Speaker 3: right now. I don't know that he can get around
Speaker 3: a pick and into the paint and start to like,
Speaker 3: you know, pass. He might end up just having to
Speaker 3: be like almost like an off ball like floor spacer,
Speaker 3: like more of a shooting guard who maybe brings the
Speaker 3: ball up to half court, pass it off and then
Speaker 3: stands on the wing if he needs for him to
Speaker 3: make a leap, he needs to show up and look quicker,
Speaker 3: whether that's physically or that's with a tighter handle that
Speaker 3: will let him compromise the defense in some way.
Speaker 4: Yeah, but he never gets to the rim, you.
Speaker 2: Know, no one. I don't know does Houston have enough
Speaker 2: shooting even say that, But there is a lot less
Speaker 2: that's part of it. On ball jiggle and joggle, I
Speaker 2: would call it. And I thought he was going to
Speaker 2: have at this level.
Speaker 4: And not a lot of joggle, that's for sure.
Speaker 2: Even with that, though, still turn the ball over on
Speaker 2: a smaller share of his possessions in the pick and
Speaker 2: roll thing Kevin Duran or onm and Thompson, and so
Speaker 2: that is still I do I think he's ever going
Speaker 2: to be a floor general? No, probably not, but like
Speaker 2: on the level of like do you consider I don't
Speaker 2: want to compare them to these players, but do you
Speaker 2: consider a Steph Curry or a Kyrie Irving a floor general?
Speaker 4: Yeah?
Speaker 3: I think Steph is the right guy to look at
Speaker 3: a little bit, right because Steph is somebody who is
Speaker 3: still frankly more athletic I think than Read Shepherd in
Speaker 3: terms of like on maall juice, right, but like the
Speaker 3: way he basically opens space for himself is like you
Speaker 3: have to respect me every second half of the ball
Speaker 3: because you just never know what I'm gonna launch. And
Speaker 3: Read got so much better at that last year, Like
Speaker 3: even like he just the sheer volume of threes he
Speaker 3: was able to get up from very deep I think
Speaker 3: was hugely encouraging. That's the key for him, right, Like
Speaker 3: can you shoot from thirty feet consistently? Will you shoot
Speaker 3: consistently from thirty feet because then you can kind of
Speaker 3: ameliorate some of these other physical weaknesses that he has,
Speaker 3: so I think Steph's the right path forward for him,
Speaker 3: even acknowledging He's never going to be Steph.
Speaker 4: That's not what I'm saying, but like that is what
Speaker 4: you have to do, I think.
Speaker 3: I Yeah, I just like the read stuff is so funny, man,
Speaker 3: because like he obviously had a good college season. I
Speaker 3: don't really fall college, like I said, and then sometime
Speaker 3: between the end of the college season and the draft,
Speaker 3: people are like, this guy is going to be, like
Speaker 3: undeniably one of the best offensive players in the game,
Speaker 3: and we just haven't seen it. And I do think
Speaker 3: to your point, I would just love to see him
Speaker 3: outside of Houston.
Speaker 4: He may doesn't want him.
Speaker 3: I think Fred Van Vliet and Marcus Smart, like you said,
Speaker 3: are gonna be ahead of him. Maybe he just ends
Speaker 3: up playing more too, because I think they just need
Speaker 3: his shootings so bad, and maybe he just doesn't end
Speaker 3: up being a point guard.
Speaker 2: I was hoping if there was gonna be a Jalen
Speaker 2: Brown trade that what didn't involve Giannis. I was hoping
Speaker 2: for some sort of like Jabbari Read for Jalen Brown
Speaker 2: construction to get those two in Boston, because Jabari Smith
Speaker 2: Junior is another guy who I think just has I
Speaker 2: think he's underrated now and I think he has more
Speaker 2: to show. But yeah, I want Read Shepherd. I want
Speaker 2: Read Shepherd off the rockets at this point. If if
Speaker 2: the opportunity is not going to be either, I want
Speaker 2: him on another game.
Speaker 3: Yeah, you know, I do not. I do not share
Speaker 3: your optimism around Jabari. But one thing about Read I
Speaker 3: think too is like that will be interesting with him
Speaker 3: with Van Vliet or him next to Smart. Is like,
Speaker 3: it'd be nice if he could just guard the worst
Speaker 3: defender and spend his entire time on the court gambling.
Speaker 3: And that's kind of what he does now, right, but
Speaker 3: I think it would be easier. I think they are
Speaker 3: better set up for that because he is just so
Speaker 3: good with his hands. He's amazing at generating all these
Speaker 3: deflections and turnovers and blocks and seals and stuff, and
Speaker 3: just putting him in the eCos like that is one
Speaker 3: thing I think May has, maybe over one of the
Speaker 3: several things he's over penalized for him, is like, yeah,
Speaker 3: we'll get cooked one on one by basically anybody, but
Speaker 3: better defensive ecosystems won't let that happen as much, you know.
Speaker 3: And then they'll play to his strengths a little bit more,
Speaker 3: because I do think it's some of his stuff is spectacular.
Speaker 3: The timing attacking guys when they spin is like amazing.
Speaker 3: So yeah, I don't know. I don't have much else
Speaker 3: to say about read, but I think it is very
Speaker 3: much a like will his coach let him succeed and
Speaker 3: will he have like the confidence to attack those opportunities,
Speaker 3: because I do think that's been a huge issue for him.
Speaker 4: Understandable, we're pick.
Speaker 2: Number seven, it's all you, who are you take him?
Speaker 3: I want to talk about you know what, Let's just
Speaker 3: let's just get a little more in the weeds. I've
Speaker 3: really I've waited a long time. I've been I've been patient.
Speaker 3: I want to talk about Ordan Miller a little bit.
Speaker 2: Oh, I was curious. You warned that you might pick
Speaker 2: a Clipper. I was curious which Clipper was going to
Speaker 2: get the not.
Speaker 3: Yeah, really had two guys I was looking at. Both
Speaker 3: resigned this offseason by the Clippers. Both guys I have
Speaker 3: a soft spot in my heart for with Jordan Miller
Speaker 3: and Kobe Sanders. And Kobe Sanders real cool player, like
Speaker 3: slick passer, a quick decision maker. You know, sort of
Speaker 3: like Nick Botomi doesn't do it the same way, but
Speaker 3: like the way that Nick Botoos is like very heady
Speaker 3: player who seems to like make the most of the
Speaker 3: stuff that doesn't get, you know, the glory. I think
Speaker 3: that's kind of like what Kobe Sanders could be. But
Speaker 3: Jordan Miller is sort of the opposite, where Jordan Miller
Speaker 3: is Like, if you guys haven't watched a lot of
Speaker 3: Jordan Miller, I do recommend you go and look at
Speaker 3: his highlight reel. We're just gonna be like, good God,
Speaker 3: who is this guy? Like when he scores, it looks
Speaker 3: so cool. He's just a steam engine going to the
Speaker 3: to the rack. But it's not because he's super strong,
Speaker 3: and it's not because he's super fast. It's not like, uh,
Speaker 3: like Benig Matherin. Actually, I think the vin diagram of
Speaker 3: their outcomes is very similar, but they do it so differently.
Speaker 3: Where Matherin's just like all shoulder and muscle and Miller
Speaker 3: is like the shiftiest handle, does all these crazy things
Speaker 3: with the ball, amazing footwork, and he lives at the rim,
Speaker 3: draws a ton of fouls.
Speaker 4: He drew more.
Speaker 3: Fouls like his foul right drawn was higher than Austin
Speaker 3: Reeves last year. Like he's just amazing at it, and
Speaker 3: uh yeah, he gets a little television ing. I think
Speaker 3: he's a pretty good defender when he wants to be.
Speaker 3: He just needs to be locked in a little bit
Speaker 3: more great offensive rebounder.
Speaker 4: But like I love guys. I love guards or wings
Speaker 4: who can get to the rim over and over again.
Speaker 3: Like I think those are the most exciting plays in basketball,
Speaker 3: are dribble drives at the rim, Right that's where you
Speaker 3: have the aerial combat. That's where you have the fun
Speaker 3: finishes and the blocks and the dunks and everything cool.
Speaker 3: But so this guy shots seventy one percent of the rim.
Speaker 3: The three pointer was okay, but the volume is too
Speaker 3: low to be reliable right now. I think that's his
Speaker 3: next step if if Miller comes out and he's able
Speaker 3: to look a little more confident from beyond the arc,
Speaker 3: and he retains all the stuff that keeps him special.
Speaker 3: Like I just think that, like the Clippers are gonna
Speaker 3: need some downhill pressure. It can't only be like, you know,
Speaker 3: Ben Matheren basically is the main guy for that right now.
Speaker 4: Who knows if he's if he's even on the yeah.
Speaker 3: Yeah, So like I think Jordan Miller has a potential
Speaker 3: opportunity to like come in and just like take like
Speaker 3: the battering ram roll and like let's just get into
Speaker 3: the paint and get to the rack over and over
Speaker 3: and over again.
Speaker 4: It's just a lot of fun to watch him play.
Speaker 2: Where do you land on? What was he at thirty
Speaker 2: four and a half percent on three last year?
Speaker 3: Yeah, and it was like three and a half for
Speaker 3: thirty six, So like that that has to get better.
Speaker 3: I think it will get better. His SHOT's kind of weird,
Speaker 3: it's kind of slow, but those are things that.
Speaker 4: Like mechanically can be fixed.
Speaker 3: He's not like broken, you know, and I think that,
Speaker 3: uh for a youngish guy. He's not super young, but
Speaker 3: he's young enough that he can still improve there. I mean, hey,
Speaker 3: we're talking about a two time Summer League first teamer, okay,
Speaker 3: All Summer League first Team Jordan Miller. So let's put
Speaker 3: some respect on his name, you know, like he's he's
Speaker 3: he's got the accolades that people are looking for. Oh
Speaker 3: and also he really needs to improve his right hand.
Speaker 3: I would say that's the other thing he can get better.
Speaker 3: He's so lefty dominant, but I think he's really fun
Speaker 3: to watch, and I just like guys who are just
Speaker 3: like you know, like rim guided missiles are are fun
Speaker 3: to watch.
Speaker 2: So the one thing I'll say is as a lefty,
Speaker 2: there's no such thing as too lefty dominant.
Speaker 1: Just want to put that out on the record.
Speaker 2: But I would almost want to see, like put in
Speaker 2: it what they're projected starting fun Let's assume the Qua
Speaker 2: trade goes through and Mather in his back.
Speaker 1: They're projected starting five.
Speaker 2: Would be what garland Ingram Hotchi Mora Lopez? Does that
Speaker 2: sound right? As the four? Like penciling in locks?
Speaker 4: Uh? And you said Woggler, right, I.
Speaker 2: Didn't say Woggler, but I'm curious. I I kind of
Speaker 2: almost would love to see can we put Miller in
Speaker 2: there instead of I love Woggler too much? Can we
Speaker 2: put Miller in there instead of more? Because that would
Speaker 2: be the type of lineup where feels like he could
Speaker 2: technically thrive because you have spacing, yeah, basically every position. Then,
Speaker 2: I mean, insofar as brand Ingram is a space is.
Speaker 3: The argument against the Jordan Miller breakout right, It's like
Speaker 3: they kind of have a lot of combo ish guards
Speaker 3: or like two threes, you know, like they've got Woggler,
Speaker 3: they got probably been Mather, and they still have Chris Dunn,
Speaker 3: who plays an important role on this team. They might
Speaker 3: have Brandon Ingram, who I think is not going to
Speaker 3: be as clean of a fit for Miller and Kobe
Speaker 3: Sanders frankly plays kind of a similar role. Grady that
Speaker 3: could play a similar role if he comes over. So like,
Speaker 3: I do think that, like the issue is like there's
Speaker 3: just a lot of guys who are all like.
Speaker 4: Kind of at the same level ish, you know where
Speaker 4: like the minutes could be hard to fine.
Speaker 3: But Miller's like my favorit guy to watch out of
Speaker 3: all those guys. So, you know, barring whatever we see
Speaker 3: from Keaton, like I said, I have no opinion on
Speaker 3: him yet, so uh but I just like him.
Speaker 2: That's right, you have, you have a comment. We need
Speaker 2: to get to uh off to soccer. But make sure
Speaker 2: you guys spend forty five minutes on hardcore. Mike, big fan, Dan,
Speaker 2: You're okay.
Speaker 4: To thank you appreciate it.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: On an unrelated note, we're looking for a new co
Speaker 2: host hardware Ox, So if anyone wants to apply, you
Speaker 2: can our emails in our in our bio. Grant has
Speaker 2: been like, I don't have that power.
Speaker 1: But Grant has been let go for calling me just
Speaker 1: okay my next pick. I don't want to go into
Speaker 1: the weeds yet. I guess for some.
Speaker 2: I'm gonna go with. I have two wizards on my list.
Speaker 2: I guess I technically have three, but I have I'm
Speaker 2: gonna go with the wizard I'm most confident in. Yes,
Speaker 2: probably probably would have had a breakout year already had
Speaker 2: he never gotten injured, could have been qualified. But Keishan
Speaker 2: George last year was cut short for him with his injury.
Speaker 1: I think the on.
Speaker 2: Ball opportunity he got better not be there. Just when
Speaker 2: you're looking at who is on this team, Alex Are,
Speaker 2: Anthony Davis AJ DEMANTSA. This team needs.
Speaker 1: Shooting. It needs shooting like that spacing.
Speaker 2: If you're gonna play Sarr and Anthony Davis together, or
Speaker 2: even if it's sar and eight and it seems like
Speaker 2: they're gonna play more duel big, you need shooting, especially
Speaker 2: if you're still gonna play a bunch of block pool bati.
Speaker 2: I don't know how to feel about Keishon George defensively
Speaker 2: just yet, other than Will Riley was another candidate for me,
Speaker 2: and I feel better about Keishawn George's defense than I
Speaker 2: do Will Riley's defense.
Speaker 1: He was.
Speaker 2: When you're looking at the players who ranked in the
Speaker 2: same percentile of catch and shoot three point efficiency last
Speaker 2: year as well as matchup difficulty on the defensive end,
Speaker 2: you only get five other guys who played as many
Speaker 2: minutes as Keishon George, Niki, Alexander Walker, Max Christy, Peyton Watson,
Speaker 2: Jade McDaniels. We just talked about him and another player
Speaker 2: who it's on my list. I'm sure I'm going to
Speaker 2: take him a Jahen Tyson they need. I think his
Speaker 2: role on offense piling needs become a little bit more streamlined.
Speaker 2: But he quietly shot thirty five percent on off the
Speaker 2: dribble threes last year. I think this is someone who
Speaker 2: doesn't need to have the ball in his hands though,
Speaker 2: for that three point stroke to translate into take it
Speaker 2: in high volume. And so if I'm looking at someone
Speaker 2: who we look back and say, oh, he held up
Speaker 2: his own defensively, and he kind of fell into those
Speaker 2: like sixteen plus points per game, shooting thirty seven thirty
Speaker 2: eight percent from three on good volume while Also maybe
Speaker 2: he's still picking up three or four assists a game
Speaker 2: because he's moving the ball quickly, being more of a
Speaker 2: connector guy than they had him, running a lot more stuff. So,
Speaker 2: by the way, if Trey Young's not on this team,
Speaker 2: I'm probably still picking kish On George. I'm probably more
Speaker 2: in Bolden to pick him. That's my wizard's pick, though.
Speaker 2: I don't know if I landed on the right wizard though,
Speaker 2: because they have a few candidates.
Speaker 3: So yeah, So I always have a weird obsession with
Speaker 3: the Wizards. I think they always have just like fun guys,
Speaker 3: they most of them end up not being good. I
Speaker 3: think Kishon George is the exception. Are you a fan
Speaker 3: of Hitchecker's Guide to the Galaxy, Dan, I have.
Speaker 2: Never seen it already.
Speaker 3: I'd say started as a book. Everyone should read it.
Speaker 3: Douglas Adams seminal science fiction book.
Speaker 4: Hilarious.
Speaker 3: But there is a whole bit in in the book
Speaker 3: in the series really about how the most useful item
Speaker 3: in the universe is a towel. All right, because you're
Speaker 3: gonna towe to keep yourself warm, you use as clothes.
Speaker 3: In a pinch, you can put dip it in water
Speaker 3: and roll it up and use it as a handheld weapon.
Speaker 3: There's basically nothing you can't do with a towel. And
Speaker 3: I had a whole article early last year comparing Keishan
Speaker 3: George to a towel.
Speaker 4: There's like, there's like nothing this guy can't do.
Speaker 3: And I didn't have him on my list because I
Speaker 3: think his ideal role and you alluded to this is
Speaker 3: like compressed into a smaller role. Like all his winning qualities,
Speaker 3: of which are abundant, I think compressed it into a
Speaker 3: smaller role. He's going to be next to Trey and
Speaker 3: Anthony Davis and Dabantsa and you know, all sorts of guys,
Speaker 3: and I think, like to your point, he's not going
Speaker 3: to have that same on ball responsibility. I think he's
Speaker 3: an amazing passer. He's a little over aggressive. I think
Speaker 3: he's got great vision. Sometimes he tries passes he can't.
Speaker 3: He had a terrible turnover rate when he was the
Speaker 3: primary point guard.
Speaker 2: I love that though. I like it. I like it
Speaker 2: when you throw passes you shouldn't and in your first
Speaker 2: like two or three years in the league, I'm like,
Speaker 2: hashtag try stuff that. Then when we get like year
Speaker 2: four and year five is when I'll start being concerned
Speaker 2: about it.
Speaker 3: Yeah, like he's he's a he's a great passer, he's
Speaker 3: a great as you allude to, he's a great catch
Speaker 3: and shoot uh finisher in that regard. He dramatically improved
Speaker 3: in the second year in terms of just like his
Speaker 3: array of finishing at the rim. So it's not just
Speaker 3: that like his percentage went up, which you did. It
Speaker 3: was like he was doing things he never could have
Speaker 3: even tried his rookie year, which I find very encouraging.
Speaker 3: And I think he's a really good defender.
Speaker 4: Like I think he's.
Speaker 3: Very good on ball and off ball, and he's that
Speaker 3: nice little flex where like he can guard a huge
Speaker 3: range of positions and be totally fine. So I think
Speaker 3: he's just so well rounded. He's such a jack of
Speaker 3: all trades. If this was a guy that was on
Speaker 3: like the Celtics or you know, or a really good team,
Speaker 3: we'd be talking about him. Is like maybe a poor
Speaker 3: man's Derek White. Like I think that's like kind of
Speaker 3: like his ceiling as a role player. But I do
Speaker 3: think his best ceiling is as a role player, and
Speaker 3: he was a little more than that last year, which
Speaker 3: is probably a little bit more than we want, which
Speaker 3: is why I didn't really have him as a breakout candidate.
Speaker 3: But I am happy to wax about, you know, keishon
Speaker 3: George for as long as you want me to, because
Speaker 3: I just think he's awesome.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I worry too, like, are there going to be
Speaker 2: able to be any more levels to his offensive game
Speaker 2: now with the way the Wizards are So if you
Speaker 2: mentioned the finishing at the rim and it wasn't like
Speaker 2: he took I think he had one point five shots
Speaker 2: at the rim in the half court last year per game.
Speaker 2: I can't imagine that number is gonna go up with
Speaker 2: the spacing that they're worked with, maybe having Trey Young there.
Speaker 3: He did at last year either a little to be fair, right,
Speaker 3: and he was the primary initiator so many times. A
Speaker 3: lot of that was like self created shots at the rim.
Speaker 3: So it'll be interesting to see him be more of
Speaker 3: a cutter again.
Speaker 2: Yeah that too, but yeah, that was that might be wishing.
Speaker 2: Did I pick the right wizard though, is a question
Speaker 2: of them.
Speaker 3: I had a different guy on my listen, it wasn't
Speaker 3: any of the people you talked about. I thought about
Speaker 3: Will Riley. I just think there's gonna be not enough
Speaker 3: chance for him to get there. They're gonna kind of
Speaker 3: have a lot of guys who are offense oriented, you know.
Speaker 3: But I'm just like fascinated to see year three of
Speaker 3: Alex Sar. I'm not really predicting a breakout because I
Speaker 3: think having Anthony Davis in the way, and I think
Speaker 3: they have a lot of overlapping qualities is going to
Speaker 3: hold him back. But I also don't think any Davis
Speaker 3: is going.
Speaker 4: To be there all year.
Speaker 3: Either he's gonna get hurt, or he's gonna get traded,
Speaker 3: or he's gonna be grumpy because he didn't get the
Speaker 3: mask extension he wanted or whatever. Even though given what
Speaker 3: they just give a trade young, he probably will get that.
Speaker 4: So what do I know. But like, assuming that they
Speaker 4: move on.
Speaker 3: From uh, just ignore my role of painters tape I'm
Speaker 3: playing with here to fiddle with, But just assuming that
Speaker 3: they move on from Andy Davis at some point, for
Speaker 3: one reason or another, people really slept on Alex Sarr
Speaker 3: last year. Like this is a guy who had such
Speaker 3: pronounced strengths and weaknesses as a rookie. I think, you know,
Speaker 3: he was so heavily criticized for folding like an iron
Speaker 3: every time anyone got near him, right, like he would
Speaker 3: just flop to the floor all the time.
Speaker 4: And he's still.
Speaker 3: Hardly like the stoutest dude, but he got so much
Speaker 3: better in that regard. Like I just think that, like
Speaker 3: he's so much stronger than he was, and I anticipated
Speaker 3: him being stronger again. In year three. You know, he
Speaker 3: was became a much better two point shooter. The three
Speaker 3: pointer he actually dialed back a little bit in a
Speaker 3: good way. I think, like he's not quite a good
Speaker 3: enough shooter yet where like that's a true weapon, but
Speaker 3: I think it can be. So I I he's becoming,
Speaker 3: you know, an elite shot blocker, one of the best
Speaker 3: in the league. He became much better rebounding and become
Speaker 3: much better boxer outer, so not just in getting the rebounds,
Speaker 3: but like in physically like putting his ass into guys
Speaker 3: and moving them out of the way. I think, again,
Speaker 3: not his strength per se, but it was a huge
Speaker 3: glaring weakness and now it's not.
Speaker 4: Now it's just like a thing he can do, which
Speaker 4: I appreciate. So he needs to keep improving.
Speaker 3: He already was scoring like sixteen points a game last year,
Speaker 3: which is like pretty high on a team that's gonna
Speaker 3: have a lot of scores. Like maybe he can't go
Speaker 3: that much higher from that with the ad there, But
Speaker 3: I just like Sar, I'm always intrigued by guys who
Speaker 3: take dramatic year one to year two leaps, and I
Speaker 3: want to see I want to see what the future
Speaker 3: holds for him in the Wizards. Like I think this
Speaker 3: Anthony Davis thing is, like I was so excited about
Speaker 3: the Wizards last year, man, I like, I really love
Speaker 3: the way they're going. I even defended the Tray Young
Speaker 3: and the Anthony Davis moves, and I'm like, oh, great
Speaker 3: Bridge Stars, you know, like keep them for a year
Speaker 3: maybe two, and they're gonna be so helpful to guide
Speaker 3: in the next era of like great Wizards of basketball.
Speaker 2: And it's nothing base well yet until the contract for
Speaker 2: Trailer cost basically now.
Speaker 4: Like what are we doing?
Speaker 3: Are we back in bad Wizards management again? Given this
Speaker 3: horrible contract to Trail And I'm a huge Trey Young believer,
Speaker 3: like I probably top ten percent of in that regard,
Speaker 3: and I'm still like, that's one of the worst contracts
Speaker 3: in the league.
Speaker 4: Like, immediately, what are we doing?
Speaker 2: Yes, what's I think if you were gonna defend it.
Speaker 2: Anthony Davis needs to not be on the roster because
Speaker 2: you could argue, well, look he look at what he
Speaker 2: can do for Alex. Who is Alex ar played alongside?
Speaker 2: Is gonna be able to get him the ball inside
Speaker 2: the arc the way that Trey Young can? The answer
Speaker 2: is no, one's come even remotely close to being that guy.
Speaker 2: And but no, now Anthony Davis is here, so like,
Speaker 2: is Alex are gonna have to be strictly a spacer?
Speaker 2: That's what I worry about Len too. And then the
Speaker 2: other thing as well is just I don't know why
Speaker 2: Chris Middleton is necessarily on this I must say like that,
Speaker 2: but like the just the weird peppering of these vets
Speaker 2: whose timelines run counter it's is, is Chris Middleton gonna
Speaker 2: be taking away from Keshaw Georgia will Riley's minutes?
Speaker 1: Is that something we're gonna be job?
Speaker 4: Yeah? Yeah, yeah, no, I totally agree with that.
Speaker 3: I don't really I was so excited about this team
Speaker 3: six months ago and five months ago, and now I'm
Speaker 3: just like a lot my my enthusiasm has tempered significantly
Speaker 3: and uh, we'll see. But and like the debans of
Speaker 3: it all is really the number. Davis is probably the
Speaker 3: number one question. Devance is number two, right, Like how
Speaker 3: much of a usage burden can he shoulder effectively right
Speaker 3: off the back?
Speaker 4: Because the Wizards are not going to be like trying
Speaker 4: to lose.
Speaker 3: They're not They're not okay losing is what I should
Speaker 3: say now, Like there are real expectations for this team
Speaker 3: to get out there and at least compete for like,
Speaker 3: you know, a seven cy or whatever, and I think
Speaker 3: they can do it, but they need a lot to
Speaker 3: go right. And frankly, for talking about the Lizards, not
Speaker 3: a lot has gone right for these guys in the past.
Speaker 4: So we'll see.
Speaker 2: Uh, we're at this is I've miscounted for This is
Speaker 2: pick number ten in the draft. So all right, fifth
Speaker 2: overall pick? I believe who would you like to select?
Speaker 4: Right finish by tomorrow? So that's exciting.
Speaker 3: Uh, let's see here do we want to talk about?
Speaker 4: You already mentioned him? So why don't we talk about
Speaker 4: Jalen Tyson?
Speaker 2: Oh he's on your I don't know if I was
Speaker 2: gonna pick him, but he was.
Speaker 1: He was obviously on my list.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, you got the graphic pulled up for it
Speaker 3: and everything. So I love that you're You're very snappy
Speaker 3: with these. I'm impressed with the production here on the
Speaker 3: on the fly because we did not coordinate these ahead
Speaker 3: of time.
Speaker 4: Everybody watching and listening.
Speaker 2: So oh, I know, I appreciate you saying con words because,
Speaker 2: as you see, my co host just throws mediocre platitudes
Speaker 2: at me and it's.
Speaker 4: Good for me.
Speaker 1: You go, So you're welcome back anytime, Mike Nice.
Speaker 4: Nice, Yeah, I know how to flatter my audience here.
Speaker 3: Uh yeah, So, like, first off, I don't understand what's
Speaker 3: going on with the Mario Hiszonia stuff where like they
Speaker 3: signed them. Maybe it's all subterfuge, so you could have
Speaker 3: a contract and go back to Europe, but the NBA
Speaker 3: is like you better not do that, but the contract's
Speaker 3: non guaranteed on until November fifte.
Speaker 2: I still don't understand what the benefit of that would
Speaker 2: be for the Calves doing his agent a solid.
Speaker 3: I think that's all it was, was like, yeah, they're
Speaker 3: just doing somebody a favor, and like who knows. May
Speaker 3: Mario Hozzonia goes in there and like, looks, Banana's good
Speaker 3: and they all want to keep them for longer because
Speaker 3: like but yeah, I don't know. I I the NBA
Speaker 3: came out pretty strongly against this, and so now it
Speaker 3: seems like maybe he will stick around for the year.
Speaker 4: But I'll believe it when I see it.
Speaker 3: This also feels fake to me, So the Jalen Tyson thing,
Speaker 3: like how many people you know? Obviously everybody watching them,
Speaker 3: this is like an NBA sicko and knows everything. So
Speaker 3: but like, how many you know, casual fans know that
Speaker 3: Jalen Tyson averaged fifteen points per game as a starter
Speaker 3: last year, Probably not that many. Like he was legitimately
Speaker 3: very useful on both ends, shut made He didn't shoot
Speaker 3: a ton of threes, but they didn't shoot a zero
Speaker 3: amount and made forty five percent of them. He's an
Speaker 3: amazing offensive rebounder. He's kind of a little chaotic defensively
Speaker 3: in a way I think is good for the Cavs,
Speaker 3: although not in the playoffs. Kenny Akinson benched him so quick,
Speaker 3: and I think that's part of my problem here is, like,
Speaker 3: you know, he went from a huge part, an important
Speaker 3: part of the rotation, started half the games for the
Speaker 3: team last year, and then like Strus came back and
Speaker 3: it took like one mediocre playoff game and Kennygkins is like,
Speaker 3: all right, back to the bench with the Tyson. But hey,
Speaker 3: he's another year older, another year more mature. Carden's another
Speaker 3: year older. I don't know that movie has like a
Speaker 3: huge offensive leap in him. I kind of think that
Speaker 3: there's room here for Tyson, like come in, spread his wings.
Speaker 3: He'll have to beat out like you know, Strus or
Speaker 3: whatever whoever else is out there, but I think like
Speaker 3: there's room for him to come in and be like, hey,
Speaker 3: this is my spot.
Speaker 4: I'm gonna take it.
Speaker 3: And if he does, I think there's absolutely Like he
Speaker 3: scored fifteen a game last year, he should be better
Speaker 3: this year in theory, just given the agent curve, right,
Speaker 3: so like I think he could be a real player.
Speaker 3: That we're talking about is like, hey, the Calves fifth
Speaker 3: player is no longer a weakness. That's what I think
Speaker 3: would be the dream outcome for the Calves and for Tyson.
Speaker 3: Right is like they're like, hey, this is we have
Speaker 3: a rock solid starting five where every player in a
Speaker 3: vacuum and you can talk about the fit, but every
Speaker 3: player in a vacuum is like at least you know,
Speaker 3: average to above average for their position, and that's I
Speaker 3: think that is absolutely within the realm of possibility.
Speaker 2: Great pick. He's I also think he's kind of a
Speaker 2: sneaky offensive rebounder, which would be great for them to
Speaker 2: have ye at those winging spots. My concern, in addition
Speaker 2: to everything you outlaid, the links to Jonathan Kaminga make
Speaker 2: me wildly uncomfortable because if this team ends up with
Speaker 2: Jonathan Kmeninga, I just assume he's going to be ahead
Speaker 2: of Tyson in the rotation, which to me is a
Speaker 2: mistake because Mike my question, if I would have picked him,
Speaker 2: this would have been my justification for his breakout. Who
Speaker 2: is the best wing defender on this team? And if
Speaker 2: the answer is Evan Mobley, let it be the non
Speaker 2: Evan Mobley division.
Speaker 4: I think it's going to be Tyson.
Speaker 2: I like it he would be the other candidate. I
Speaker 2: just don't like you look at the rosters, so they need.
Speaker 4: It'd be Isaacakorro from two years ago?
Speaker 2: Right? Can they get him back from the bulls or
Speaker 2: what are we talking about? Is Nikwon Tomlin? Is he
Speaker 2: gonna be a candidate here? So?
Speaker 4: He kind of a fun summer league though, keep an
Speaker 4: eye on that.
Speaker 2: Uh, I they need. I hope he gets the opportunity
Speaker 2: necessary to like actualize a breakout. I think his role,
Speaker 2: of course offensively always need to be boxed in. But
Speaker 2: like you said, the three point percentage was high enough,
Speaker 2: and he is I don't I don't know what the
Speaker 2: book on him was coming out of college, but defensively
Speaker 2: he's totally impressed me, like he's been a little bit.
Speaker 2: Is he listed at six to six, and it feels
Speaker 2: like he defends a little bit bigger than that. And
Speaker 2: also just he does have because they do need. I mean,
Speaker 2: I love Malik Thomas, though he's not I'm not gonna
Speaker 2: pick a rookie, but like watching Malik Thomas take like
Speaker 2: the most secuitest possible routes to the basket in Summer
Speaker 2: League was like one of my favorite like film watches.
Speaker 2: They need kind of another ball handler because I don't
Speaker 2: I'm not a Denis Shuder guy. John Tyson has some
Speaker 2: of that. I don't know if he could jump start
Speaker 2: the off, but I'd be interested to see him with
Speaker 2: some more on ball reps.
Speaker 1: I don't think would be available.
Speaker 2: On this team, but if he's gonna hit threes and
Speaker 2: defend his ass, off I have like, right now, I
Speaker 2: get would he start for them?
Speaker 1: Because I who I know?
Speaker 2: Struce is there, I like Strews, I like Sam Merrill,
Speaker 2: and Meryll probably fights harder on defense, and people give
Speaker 2: him credit for Strews has good stocks. I'd say, yeah, yeah,
Speaker 2: but I'd like, I don't know, I'd prefer for what
Speaker 2: the Cavs is starting lineup already has. I guess the
Speaker 2: higher volume from three for Merril and Struce around guys
Speaker 2: like Mitchell and Harden and then even the dual bigs.
Speaker 2: Maybe that makes more sense. But if we're talking closing lineups,
Speaker 2: I could probably make a pretty impassionate case that Jalen
Speaker 2: Tyson needs to be the most common fifth guy again
Speaker 2: relative to the current roster construction.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's gonna be, you know, I think this is
Speaker 3: one of those things where like there's gonna be a
Speaker 3: real training camp battle, and if Tyson comes out on
Speaker 3: top and he earns the coaches trust, I think that's it.
Speaker 4: Right.
Speaker 3: The stage is set round to be as if he's
Speaker 3: reverted back to like a sixth man thing that he's
Speaker 3: just gonna be two boxed in to really take advantage.
Speaker 3: But I think that like I think the stage for
Speaker 3: him to take big lead for he's he's a little
Speaker 3: bit older than people realize, I think, but like he's
Speaker 3: just ready to go. I think he's ready for a
Speaker 3: bigger role and I'm excited to see it. I do
Speaker 3: have one you brought up, Summer Lea. I did have
Speaker 3: a funy Jalen Tyson the Summer League story which I
Speaker 3: saw him, you know, as a rookiear Summer Lea and
Speaker 3: I sit next to a buddy mine. He's not really
Speaker 3: like a big, big basketball fan. What was just there
Speaker 3: to hang out and we watched Dalen Tyson started at
Speaker 3: point guard for the Cats summer League team, and he
Speaker 3: started the game with three straight turnovers at like half court,
Speaker 3: like getting pickpocketed, like dribbling off his foot, and my
Speaker 3: buddy's just like.
Speaker 4: Who is that guy? He sucks?
Speaker 3: And the entire row in front of us turns around
Speaker 3: and they're all wearing like University of Washington polos and stuff.
Speaker 4: It was like teammates and they alays around stared daggers
Speaker 4: at my buddy. We should have read the room a little.
Speaker 2: Bits a wild time for the for the people that
Speaker 2: get to run point guard.
Speaker 1: At some point in summer league thing.
Speaker 3: Usually if you're the point guard at summer league and
Speaker 3: you're not typically a point guard, it means your team
Speaker 3: is putting in a position to fail. You know, It's
Speaker 3: like they want you to stretch yourself. They don't expect
Speaker 3: you to become an NBA point guard, but they want
Speaker 3: you to get more comfortable, like handling the ball, and
Speaker 3: most of those guys aren't. And again, you're in a
Speaker 3: summer league situation where like there isn't a lot of
Speaker 3: offensive structure, so like guys aren't.
Speaker 4: Always sitting screens in the right places.
Speaker 3: People don't know the playbook if there is a playbook,
Speaker 3: and yeah, you will look bad if you are not
Speaker 3: a point guard.
Speaker 4: You're playing point gard in summer league.
Speaker 2: My next pick, I feel like I shouldn't pick him,
Speaker 2: but I'm going to because I'm just a believer, and
Speaker 2: we talked about him a little bit before we jumped
Speaker 2: on the podcast. I think Dylan Cardwell, the Sacramento Kings
Speaker 2: love it. I don't know what type of opportunity is
Speaker 2: going to be available to him if Sabonus is healthy.
Speaker 2: They do seem pretty invested in Maxime Reino. They re
Speaker 2: sign precious Tochua. They also did end up with after
Speaker 2: the draft. They have Alex carabin or Caribin. Apologies if
Speaker 2: I'm mispronouncing that, but man, I love Dyling card Well one,
Speaker 2: and I did mention this to you his comments at
Speaker 2: summer League, like they give a fuck factor for him
Speaker 2: at summer League, Like he's already in the NBA and
Speaker 2: was kind of a nice little story lester for the Kings.
Speaker 2: But for him to care that deeply about body language
Speaker 2: and effort in.
Speaker 1: Summer League, I just I favor it. I love it.
Speaker 2: That stuff is sick, oh af I look at him
Speaker 2: a lot of people when they look at these bigs
Speaker 2: who might be able to play some four, play some five,
Speaker 2: Are they gonna shoot threes?
Speaker 3: And me?
Speaker 2: The answered Dylan cardmell is, I don't like he's not
Speaker 2: a three point shooter, but I'm very interested to see
Speaker 2: like he's done some things in as an offensive rebounder
Speaker 2: with getting rid of the ball after that sometimes he
Speaker 2: could have these weird hook shots after grabbing them that
Speaker 2: I'm not in love with the stuff. I think there's
Speaker 2: more for him have the short role. If you can
Speaker 2: give him just a little bit of spacing, he can
Speaker 2: make like play decisions out of the short role. I
Speaker 2: also do he's flashed some like short mid range game.
Speaker 2: I think he's an Okaye creator. I just think there's
Speaker 2: more utility on offense, like he'll do enough of the
Speaker 2: little things to where if you do have another floor
Speaker 2: spacing big, you could play with another big or I
Speaker 2: actually am a big believer in him being like being
Speaker 2: able to be your primary big.
Speaker 1: You look at data, Baller has.
Speaker 2: One of my what has become one of my favorite
Speaker 2: stats where you're looking at stop percentage where it's like
Speaker 2: per one hundred possessions of steels, offensive fouls drawn, and
Speaker 2: then blocks that were actually recovered by your team. Here's
Speaker 2: the nine percentile of that stat last year. I think
Speaker 2: he can hang a little bit on the perimeter as well.
Speaker 2: The rim protection numbers are mostly fine. This is a
Speaker 2: guy who I don't think is ever going to be
Speaker 2: dominant in any one area, but check so many boxes
Speaker 2: and maybe won't be a noticeable liability in any one area.
Speaker 2: I want a team to just come in and save him,
Speaker 2: because this is this is the Kings. But I like
Speaker 2: how married are they actually to like the other like
Speaker 2: bigs or fringe bigs on this roster, we can't really
Speaker 2: tell Keegan Murray is there. So if he's gonna soak
Speaker 2: up a majority minutes at the four, Cardinal's gonna have to,
Speaker 2: like I would say, edge out Reno in the rotation,
Speaker 2: which I right now I think he's just better than
Speaker 2: re No would be just one of my hot rain
Speaker 2: No seems like he came out of nowhere. People gravitate
Speaker 2: towards Oh look at the look at the offensive range.
Speaker 2: Reino didn't look that great.
Speaker 3: N got the Zach low bump a little bit there
Speaker 3: right Like Zach low came out singing his praises, me
Speaker 3: like this guy needs to be all a rookie, and
Speaker 3: feel like, oh yeah, this guy I'd never heard of
Speaker 3: himtil Zach Loow mentioned him.
Speaker 4: Yeah, he deserves to be all rookie for sure.
Speaker 2: I I find I heard this years ago. It was
Speaker 2: on Twitter, and it made me rethink, like I stop
Speaker 2: and think, why do I feel a certain way is
Speaker 2: you don't want to become a parrot for somebody else?
Speaker 2: And I think Zach Lowe has probably had like more
Speaker 2: influence over how I might look at the league or
Speaker 2: talk about the.
Speaker 1: League than anyone while coming up.
Speaker 2: And so before I'm doing something that feels so if
Speaker 2: it's like mainstream and you just know it, like I
Speaker 2: was picking Dylan Harper's a breakout candidate, but this would
Speaker 2: be one of the people I would stop, like, why
Speaker 2: do I feel this way? If I watched enough dealing
Speaker 2: card well or did Zach Loow mention them on a podcast?
Speaker 2: And you're right, I forgot that. I think zach Loow
Speaker 2: had like two maximum Reno monologues at the end of
Speaker 2: last season.
Speaker 3: So you know, it's funny because I did a uh
Speaker 3: this is a couple of years ago for Hoops type actually,
Speaker 3: but I did an analysis of like the way that
Speaker 3: MVP voting has changed and concentrated over time, and it
Speaker 3: was basically trying to be like, what's the echo chamber
Speaker 3: effect here? Like what is this like a bias where like,
Speaker 3: you know, now we see MVP races and they're never close,
Speaker 3: they're always blowouts, and there's never a tale of candidates
Speaker 3: right like this, it's always all the votes are concentrated
Speaker 3: in the same three guys or so, but they're almost
Speaker 3: always in the same order, and it's just like this
Speaker 3: unbelievable consolidation.
Speaker 4: Uh, I guess uh.
Speaker 3: Echo chamber going on and one of the so I
Speaker 3: did a big statistical study there, as big as you
Speaker 3: can on something that such a small sample size, and
Speaker 3: it's like two things really stood out as like, uh,
Speaker 3: impetusis for further consolidation in the voting and more similarity
Speaker 3: in the voting scores.
Speaker 4: And the first was Twitter.
Speaker 3: Social media came out, and this is like, this is
Speaker 3: like an unbelievable The chart is amazing, Like everybody should
Speaker 3: go google that, like that, I ran on basketball poetry too. Hoops,
Speaker 3: I've had it, but like the chart is pretty unbelievable
Speaker 3: with the group think, where like the second Twitter came
Speaker 3: out is like the share of votes in the top
Speaker 3: two guys basically became like doubled every year after that
Speaker 3: from what it had been prior because you and like
Speaker 3: you could spend it positively.
Speaker 4: You could say like, hey, yeah, people are scared.
Speaker 3: To say something stupid because they don't want to be
Speaker 3: attacked by Twitter trolls or whatever, you know. But also
Speaker 3: like it early Twitter especially was such a good forum
Speaker 3: for exchanging high level d and ideas, and so like
Speaker 3: the argument for this group think that we see with
Speaker 3: the MVP today is like, yeah, it's just because everyone's
Speaker 3: smarter now, we all are learning from each other, like
Speaker 3: everyone has come up with better. But the other big impetus,
Speaker 3: the other big inflection point was like Zachlo's podcast and
Speaker 3: articles coming out, and like basically once he became like
Speaker 3: a thing on the national media, people were like, whatever
Speaker 3: you wanted to say before, you could always just repeat
Speaker 3: what Zachlos said and you could defend it.
Speaker 4: You'd be like, well, zach Loo said it, so it's
Speaker 4: obviously well.
Speaker 3: Thought out, well reasoned, and like those are like two
Speaker 3: of the big like inflection points in terms of just
Speaker 3: like how MVP became more and more group thinking over
Speaker 3: the time, which again I'm not even saying is a
Speaker 3: bad thing necessarily, but it was interesting, Well, you're right,
Speaker 3: and you couldn't do when you're writing.
Speaker 2: Well, it's also do what I'm gonna miss, But it
Speaker 2: also I have to actively avoid them. Kevin Pelton now
Speaker 2: working behind the scenes of basketball. Again, it's a lost
Speaker 2: for all of us. We'd like to consume his content,
Speaker 2: but his trade grades, because I do trade grades at
Speaker 2: Bleacher Report, like the live grades for the deadline, then
Speaker 2: a lot of like losingly happen. I have to I
Speaker 2: want to actively avoid in general what other people are
Speaker 2: saying or right. Maybe I'm just too impressionable, But like Kevin,
Speaker 2: Pelton's just covers it from so many angles that if
Speaker 2: you want to form your opinion on you, it's good
Speaker 2: to be informed of others' opinions. But I don't want
Speaker 2: my opinion to be too shaped by what someone like
Speaker 2: him is already doing. So I would actively have to
Speaker 2: avoid his articles or trade grades if I hadn't yet
Speaker 2: greated a trader or reacted to trade.
Speaker 1: Because I want to.
Speaker 2: I want to feel like I got somewhere on my own.
Speaker 2: And then you go back and look which is Look,
Speaker 2: this isn't You don't need to take this as a compliment,
Speaker 2: like you're on the list of people where if I
Speaker 2: disagree with you, or if I disagree with Grant, like
Speaker 2: I immediately rethink my priors like oh, or if I
Speaker 2: like if I disagree with when I just hear Kaitlin
Speaker 2: Cooper on like the Aviza Zubos trade for the Pacers,
Speaker 2: I reevaluated my entire life after that.
Speaker 3: You know, Pelton's funny because, like I always, with his
Speaker 3: trade grades, they come out so quick, they're so comprehensile,
Speaker 3: he said, But you know, as an independent writer, I
Speaker 3: always tried to beat Pelton the market because I was
Speaker 3: confident in my own evaluations. But if I beat Pelton,
Speaker 3: I would get tons of clicks, tons of subscribers, paid subscribes, everything,
Speaker 3: And if he beat me to market, it just took
Speaker 3: up everything I'd get.
Speaker 4: It'd be like a dostown on my page.
Speaker 3: So like for me, it was like legitimately important from
Speaker 3: a business perspective to beat ESPN and beat Pelton the
Speaker 3: market so I could be ranked higher in like the
Speaker 3: Google results or whatever.
Speaker 4: That was leg like huge difference.
Speaker 2: Uh. Look, so we know the system now, so we
Speaker 2: need to rush this out before the next breakout draft.
Speaker 4: Who's gonna go cardboll That's what you're talking about, right, So.
Speaker 2: I don't good about the opportunity. Was the moral of
Speaker 2: the story is. And it's not just because it's the Kings,
Speaker 2: but just they have a weird roster structure right now.
Speaker 2: And I've actually been wondering what it would take for
Speaker 2: another team to because he's so cheap, Like does he
Speaker 2: are the Kings demanding a first round pick.
Speaker 1: To get him?
Speaker 2: Because then you're probably he wouldn't be traded, like will
Speaker 2: they take a ton of seconds and a small salary.
Speaker 2: But I don't know what his opportunity is going to
Speaker 2: be this year. I just I love I love me
Speaker 2: some doing card.
Speaker 4: Well, yeah I did too, for slightly different reasons.
Speaker 3: I just like every Sacramento Kings game I watch, he
Speaker 3: gets a big block and then he just celebrates it
Speaker 3: like it's the coolest here.
Speaker 4: He's got a salute he does sometimes to people. Sometime
Speaker 4: he'ple just put both.
Speaker 3: Arms up in the air and be like, yes, I'm
Speaker 3: the man. And I just I love the enthusiasm. I
Speaker 3: like guys who are having fun when they're playing. It
Speaker 3: makes it more fun for me as a viewer to
Speaker 3: watch these guys.
Speaker 2: You know, could he be celebrating his thought percentage when
Speaker 2: he's doing that knowing that so many of his team's
Speaker 2: blocks are recovered, Well is it.
Speaker 4: If that's the case, he needs to further.
Speaker 3: Mourn grieve for his you know, foul percentage, because my god,
Speaker 3: is this guy fould the shit out everybody that is
Speaker 3: you know what I see though? A little bit is
Speaker 3: one of our picks for breakout gems last year that
Speaker 3: I think panned out beautifully was namiash Keida, right, And
Speaker 3: that's always been one of my guys. And I'm like
Speaker 3: every time of this guy, like why doesn't he get
Speaker 3: more leash on the court, Like why isn't he given
Speaker 3: more chance to play through his mistakes.
Speaker 4: I think he'll be such a game changer, and.
Speaker 3: I think we saw that last year, Like that's definitely
Speaker 3: one of the guys I've always been highest on that.
Speaker 4: I'm really glad panned out.
Speaker 3: And card Well I think has a little bit of
Speaker 3: that too, where it's like he's out there and he's
Speaker 3: just so excited, like a puppy to be out there
Speaker 3: just rolling himself around, and I.
Speaker 4: Think he's worried.
Speaker 3: He's like, I'm gonna be out here for you know,
Speaker 3: eighteen minutes, seventeen minutes at a time or whatever, Like
Speaker 3: I need the most of it. He's the guy who
Speaker 3: I think if he could play through his mistakes a
Speaker 3: little bit more, he would hopefully settle down and it
Speaker 3: would translate into just much stronger overall impact besides just
Speaker 3: like the highlight blocks and stuff.
Speaker 2: I'm so I don't know how many minutes he's gonna
Speaker 2: play this year, but I'm excited. I see where they
Speaker 2: end up. And he's a He's a reason to watch
Speaker 2: the Kings for a reason, you like you want a
Speaker 2: reaction on a block there's you like, there's a reason
Speaker 2: to tune into that. And what type of shots is
Speaker 2: Darius Acuff gonna take tonight?
Speaker 3: Yeah, I'll I try not to form opinions of players
Speaker 3: before they get into the real league, So I have
Speaker 3: nothing to say about Darius Acuff right.
Speaker 2: Now that we might as well move on to Is
Speaker 2: this your is your last pick?
Speaker 4: I think I don't know.
Speaker 3: I wanted to pick Keegan Murray because but that just
Speaker 3: feels like a little.
Speaker 4: Too much King's talk, no offense to to the Kings fans,
Speaker 4: I do.
Speaker 3: I will say I think King and Murray is really good.
Speaker 3: I think that this year, if there's no DeMar Derosen,
Speaker 3: hopefully no Russell Westbrook will see perhaps would be emphasized
Speaker 3: Zach Levine, Like I think about.
Speaker 1: Victor Oladeo, is he gonna be able to see.
Speaker 3: I've always had a little bit of a soft spot
Speaker 3: for Oladipa, so who knows, But I think King Murray
Speaker 3: is gonna like rediscover his bullyball game, rediscover a shot,
Speaker 3: and have like a really good year. That's what I'm
Speaker 3: hoping for if he can do Like I didn't want
Speaker 3: to make this a King of Murray thing, but fuck it,
Speaker 3: we're excuse my friend, we're already we're alreadyalking on about.
Speaker 2: We don't have to count it as your pick.
Speaker 1: If you want to talk a little bit.
Speaker 4: Of you Kings fans need a little love. Let's be ask.
Speaker 3: There's not a lot of nice things said about the Kings,
Speaker 3: and we if we're gonna do it for ten minutes,
Speaker 3: we can do it for ten minutes.
Speaker 4: So I just think, like his three pointer has kind
Speaker 4: of gone down.
Speaker 3: Every single season, but every single person you talk to,
Speaker 3: like in and around the Kings, in the league in general,
Speaker 3: like just thinks he's a really good cheer. Like they
Speaker 3: just believe in his shot and him as a shooter.
Speaker 3: He's an amazing finisher. Like people don't really realize this,
Speaker 3: but like his percentage at the rim are really good.
Speaker 3: His percentages like in like the ten foot range are
Speaker 3: really good. Like he's got a whole, like a little
Speaker 3: bag down there that people aren't aware of a little
Speaker 3: too in love with the long pull up maybe, but
Speaker 3: like part of that is just like look at the
Speaker 3: space that he works with, right, it's terrible. So I
Speaker 3: think the best case scenario for Murray is, like, hey, there,
Speaker 3: we're deemphasizing some of these old shot heavy veterans. We're,
Speaker 3: you know, trying to roll out something new, Like we
Speaker 3: just paid you a big contract. You were hurt all
Speaker 3: last year, and frankly, he might still be heard. He
Speaker 3: had an ankle surgery a couple months ago, so we'll
Speaker 3: see about that. Like, but like, we're gonna make you
Speaker 3: like a focal point of the offense.
Speaker 4: Not the focal point. We have a cuff for that.
Speaker 3: We've got some of the guys who need to score too,
Speaker 3: but like a focal point, and I think he could
Speaker 3: go back to being like a nineteen point per game score.
Speaker 4: Like, I think that's definitely a possibility.
Speaker 3: It would help if Doug Christy offense was literally anything
Speaker 3: other than running Kegan Murray off pindowns and like handoffs,
Speaker 3: Like can we get some sort of off ball movement?
Speaker 3: Can we do like literally anything to set him up
Speaker 3: to succeed. Because I watched like two hundred and fifty
Speaker 3: Keying Murray shots last night in preparation for this podcast.
Speaker 3: Just in case we talked about him, and every single
Speaker 3: one is him driving into a crowded.
Speaker 4: Lane and self creating basically like he's.
Speaker 3: Never finishing off of like or outside of the occasonal
Speaker 3: like Russell Westbrook pass like he's never finishing off like
Speaker 3: a cut or anything. And it's not because he's not cutting,
Speaker 3: because there's not that level of like passing or spacing
Speaker 3: on the floor around him.
Speaker 4: So but I we don't need to talk about the
Speaker 4: bad things with the Kings. We know the bad things
Speaker 4: with the Kings.
Speaker 2: The I was gonna say just to support your point,
Speaker 2: and this is it could be Keegan Murray a little bit,
Speaker 2: but his catch and shoot, but three point shot quality
Speaker 2: and off ball shot quality have deteriorated in each and
Speaker 2: every season that he's been in the league. I view
Speaker 2: that as more of an organizational failure than I do
Speaker 2: as at being on Keegan Murray. And I think that
Speaker 2: his his role is shifted basically, I mean, last year
Speaker 2: is injured. It's a bad example, but his roles had
Speaker 2: to shift in every season because of this like rotating
Speaker 2: like cast of personnel and head coaches that are now
Speaker 2: coming in. So I don't want he's not blameless. I
Speaker 2: don't know what he can be as an on ball scorer,
Speaker 2: if that's what a breakout would look like for him.
Speaker 2: But I'm not as worried about the declining three point
Speaker 2: percentage specifically they maybe get you want him to be
Speaker 2: a knockdown three point shooter, like put him, get him
Speaker 2: some of the right looks like those three point shooters
Speaker 2: are generally speaking, if you're not a star, always going
Speaker 2: to be more reliant on everyone out, like on the
Speaker 2: coaching or on the guys who are setting them up.
Speaker 2: And he just hasn't had great stability since arriving at Sacramento.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and there's not like he's not like a huge
Speaker 3: three point volume guy either, Like it's enough for his position.
Speaker 3: It's good, like that's what you want, but he's not
Speaker 3: like shooting ten a game.
Speaker 5: You know.
Speaker 3: It's almost more like he's almost gotten a little bit
Speaker 3: more like a Devin Bookery feel in some ways, not
Speaker 3: saying he's anywhere near that level as a self score
Speaker 3: or anything, but like in terms of the way he
Speaker 3: plays the game is a little bit more of that.
Speaker 4: When he when he has the ball, well we'll see
Speaker 4: what happens.
Speaker 3: I just think the Doug Christy offense has not done
Speaker 3: him any favors, but I do think that, like the
Speaker 3: personnel shifting this year, could open up some opportunities that
Speaker 3: hopefully he'll take advantage of.
Speaker 2: Did you want to that was your we'll call out
Speaker 2: your bonus pick. Did you want to talk about another player?
Speaker 3: Hmm, my list is finally running low. We've touched upon everybody,
Speaker 3: but there's two more names. I think that we should
Speaker 3: talk about one you might take though, So yeah, let's
Speaker 3: talk about cal Murray Boyles.
Speaker 4: Let's give the raptor someone.
Speaker 2: Let's definitely talk about Calinmary Boyles such a well.
Speaker 1: Leonard is the question.
Speaker 4: I think it's an important question.
Speaker 3: I think that Kawhi would be a much better fit
Speaker 3: for him than Brandon Ingram, right just because Kahi at
Speaker 3: least is more of a threat from the outside.
Speaker 4: I think even though Ingram did take up a little
Speaker 4: bit in that.
Speaker 3: Regard, but like you know, there's a different level of
Speaker 3: gravity between Brandon Ingram and Kawhi Leonard that I think
Speaker 3: is going to benefit Calumary Boyles.
Speaker 4: I think that's safe to say so. But it's the
Speaker 4: guy who's really stepped up in the playoffs.
Speaker 3: You love to see that from rookies, he averaged like
Speaker 3: fourteen and a half points per game and like was
Speaker 3: rebounding two and a half stocks in the playoffs.
Speaker 4: Like Hit Darko came out a couple months ago.
Speaker 3: I want to say, I don't remember the context, but
Speaker 3: he's basically like a CMB and he's been playing thirty
Speaker 3: minutes to Night, which is exactly what you want to
Speaker 3: hear for a guy who's sort of like a supercharged
Speaker 3: sixth man right now, kind of a weird tweener right
Speaker 3: because he can't shoot like at all, can't even shoot
Speaker 3: from the mid range, which is a problem.
Speaker 4: Like he he will shoot a floater, and it is
Speaker 4: the ugliest floater I think I've ever seen. Never goes
Speaker 4: in it.
Speaker 1: So you're saying you don't trust him.
Speaker 2: Going thirteen oh thirty four on Above the break threes
Speaker 2: last year.
Speaker 4: I would say, I would like to see more of
Speaker 4: it before I trust it.
Speaker 3: I will cautiously extend it and invite to meet in
Speaker 3: a public place, but I wouldn't invite it into my house,
Speaker 3: you know what I'm saying.
Speaker 4: But I like I love the hands, I love the motor.
Speaker 3: I think he's like a weirdly creative finisher for this
Speaker 3: kind of player archetype of like this tweeener like roller,
Speaker 3: like he can finish with both hands. He'll do a
Speaker 3: little stuff with a little sauce on the finishes, which
Speaker 3: I like to see. So, like, I think his feel
Speaker 3: for the game is really good on both sides.
Speaker 4: The fit was Scotty.
Speaker 3: If we're looking at the cons for him breaking out, right,
Speaker 3: it's like the fit with Scotty's a little bit weird.
Speaker 3: Pearl is obviously there too, just doing god knows what,
Speaker 3: taking up money. So it's gonna be nights where like he.
Speaker 2: Did they extend him again this year or what? I
Speaker 2: can't I miss that.
Speaker 4: I don't understand the Pearl stuff.
Speaker 3: I've never understood the Peart stuff and it survived multiple
Speaker 3: front offices at this point, right, So, but yeah, so
Speaker 3: Murray's if he needs to break out, he just needs
Speaker 3: become more of a threat in space. And I don't
Speaker 3: mean shooting three pointers. I mean like, can you hit
Speaker 3: a ten foot floater? Can you do a little bit
Speaker 3: more as like a passer in the short role? Like
Speaker 3: I think these are things he can This is things
Speaker 3: that we started to see a little bit in the playoffs.
Speaker 3: Didn't see as much in the real season, but he
Speaker 3: proved to me that he could compete at a high
Speaker 3: level already as a young guy. And I'm you know,
Speaker 3: it's just it's it's always weird with these undersized guys
Speaker 3: who can't shoot. But I just love the way he
Speaker 3: plays the game. And I'm hoping that another year of
Speaker 3: seasoning and maybe a slightly better fit around him Anuel
Speaker 3: quickly being back to shoot threes is gonna be helpful
Speaker 3: for him, Like I think he needs that kind of stuff.
Speaker 2: I do wonder how much it'll help. And they did play.
Speaker 2: I think him and Scotty is like defront court. The
Speaker 2: four and the five got over eleven hundred little over
Speaker 2: eleven hundred possessions in the regular season. Numbers on that
Speaker 2: defensively are really good. Do you view that as something
Speaker 2: that can be a default for them, especially when you
Speaker 2: have the size of Kawhi Leonard maybe if RJ's at
Speaker 2: the two in that situation, or is that something you
Speaker 2: don't want to overtax either player with necessarily. I think
Speaker 2: with Kawhi being there, instead of brandon Ingram, you're not
Speaker 2: really taking you don't have to take Scotty Barnes or
Speaker 2: CMB out of their wheelhouse necessarily, But I'm curious to
Speaker 2: see what the what would be your appetite for making
Speaker 2: closing lineup. Yeah, that's just it's Kawhi Leonard, CMB, Scottie
Speaker 2: Barnes like that your front court. But just generally speaking
Speaker 2: as a core lineup, do you think that basically CMB
Speaker 2: being the five then in that instance or the day
Speaker 2: facto five, are you okay with that or do you
Speaker 2: think that you're giving up then too much size?
Speaker 4: Now? I think that you need to explore it.
Speaker 3: Like I said, I think that's something that probably will
Speaker 3: look better in the playoffs than the look in the
Speaker 3: regular season most of the time. And there will be matches,
Speaker 3: matchups where it's not tenable, right Like I think you
Speaker 3: go up against like the heat and it's like bam
Speaker 3: and the honest you're probably not gonna be able to
Speaker 3: survive with CMB at center, is my guess.
Speaker 4: You know, that's just too much size.
Speaker 3: But I what we saw from it was so promising
Speaker 3: for a guy who is so young and still figure
Speaker 3: out how to play next to Scotti and Brandon, Ingram
Speaker 3: and Purl and whoever else was out there. Well, not
Speaker 3: Purtle obviously, but next to Ingram and whoever else was
Speaker 3: out there, they did not have like the best offensive
Speaker 3: ecosystem from their guards with quickly being out for so long.
Speaker 3: So you just you saw enough positives that you have
Speaker 3: to explore further. Figure I'm always in favor of, like
Speaker 3: figure out where the breaking point is. Push if you're
Speaker 3: seeing good results, push further until the diminishing returns or zero.
Speaker 4: Right like that That's what I think.
Speaker 1: Uh, I like that thinking, And I don't have anything
Speaker 1: to add on CMB.
Speaker 2: I hope watching it, but like I'm assuming the Kauha
Speaker 2: dra goes through and this team is like the Raptors
Speaker 2: just might be a sleeping giant, And then maybe people
Speaker 2: already haven't peddled in as a giant with Kawhi Leonard,
Speaker 2: but they might be a sleeping giant. If that's like
Speaker 2: going to be the setup of their team, their core
Speaker 2: lineup is, or if you just get like if Jacoby
Speaker 2: Walter gets better, if Jamal shddh, it's a little bit
Speaker 2: more of his shoes. Like there's just so many swing
Speaker 2: factors on this team too. So my pen ultimate pick
Speaker 2: I'm going to go with, I think one of us
Speaker 2: picked him last year. I can't remember if it was Mirio,
Speaker 2: it was me. I'm picking him again. I would also
Speaker 2: like to give I did consider he was not on
Speaker 2: our list, but Myron Gardner just as this team needs
Speaker 2: like three and D wings and he gets under opponents
Speaker 2: to skin just enough where it's like I feel like
Speaker 2: Eric Bolsher will give him maybe a ton of minutes
Speaker 2: if the roster stays largely intact right now, I'm sure
Speaker 2: for sure the heat need like real ball handlers. It's okay.
Speaker 2: It's cool that Giannis can just rampage his way towards
Speaker 2: the basket. That's great. Bam Adebayo is kind of a
Speaker 2: secondary option. Davion Mitchell is kind of a shooter now
Speaker 2: in Miami. This team needs like an actual organizer or
Speaker 2: just a ball handler that has more change of direction
Speaker 2: and cadence to him. I don't think they have anybody
Speaker 2: else on the roster other than Pelle Larson, who begins
Speaker 2: to fit that mold. Now, my concern would be they
Speaker 2: need shooting. He does not provide it, but he can
Speaker 2: work with the ball in his hands, get through tight spaces,
Speaker 2: draw a ton of fouls. So I trust the scoring package. Overall,
Speaker 2: he's not an excellent defender, but I think it like
Speaker 2: if six' five and that's your point, guard, like you
Speaker 2: do have excellent size there shooting almost fifty nine percent
Speaker 2: from two last, year averaged almost six free throw attempts
Speaker 2: per one hundred. Possessions and this wasn't necessarily someone who
Speaker 2: was the most ball dominant player on the heat at every.
Speaker 2: TURN i don't, KNOW i thought his, role his role
Speaker 2: this year was probably a little bit smaller THAN i
Speaker 2: thought it was gonna, Be and NOW i feel like
Speaker 2: he might be sneakily more important to them than he
Speaker 2: was last. Year maybe that's more about the scarcity of,
Speaker 2: bodies BUT i do think it's the, actual like the
Speaker 2: ball handling that he's going to provide they. Need the question, becomes,
Speaker 2: though can he make a enough or can he based
Speaker 2: the floor enough to play Around johannis And bam and
Speaker 2: very MUCH tbd.
Speaker 3: There, YEAH i you, know it's funny BECAUSE i think
Speaker 3: you're talking about him as a point guard a, lot
Speaker 3: which makes. SENSE i kind of think the, heat, though
Speaker 3: are more likely to flip between him And Tim, hardaway,
Speaker 3: right and it's gonna be like who's the shooting? Guard
Speaker 3: next To Davion. Mitchell i'm not sure about that BECAUSE
Speaker 3: i think that all three of these guys have important,
Speaker 3: skills but none of them have all.
Speaker 4: The skills that they, need you. Know but, YEAH i
Speaker 4: mean you Picked Pela larson last.
Speaker 3: Year this has always been your guy AND i love
Speaker 3: Watching he's another guy that just like throws himself around
Speaker 3: the court like he'll, he'll you, know die for a,
Speaker 3: ball miss, it get, up dive for it again on
Speaker 3: the same, play and just like leave skin on the,
Speaker 3: ground which you love to. See, uh there's A twitter.
Speaker 3: Account i'm sure you've seen this, before but there's a
Speaker 3: next account that's, like Did pella get hit in the face?
Speaker 3: Today and the answer is, yes almost every? Game and
Speaker 3: my favor it was last year one time he was
Speaker 3: injured and he was warm ups and it was still
Speaker 3: a yes because the ball bounced off the rim and
Speaker 3: nailed him right in the. Nose so they're, like, yes
Speaker 3: and it didn't even he didn't even play air spots
Speaker 3: ros about it, before like this is just the. Thing
Speaker 3: he gets hit in the face all the.
Speaker 2: Time is there an account For Darius garland with that,
Speaker 2: too because he would deserve.
Speaker 3: One, yeah say he's a higher profile, name so he
Speaker 3: probably does have. One but, YEAH i mean all the
Speaker 3: things said about larcen are. TRUE i just think the
Speaker 3: heat need like some real DEAD i shooting more than
Speaker 3: they need what he brings in some. Ways but it's
Speaker 3: gonna be a night to night. THING i think it's
Speaker 3: gonna be classic spolstro where like there is no such
Speaker 3: thing as a settled. Lineup like he might start next
Speaker 3: To hardaway one time in the back. Court he might
Speaker 3: start next To Davion mitchell in the back. Court some,
Speaker 3: nights he might not start at.
Speaker 4: All a lot of.
Speaker 3: NIGHTS i he averaged you know, what eleven point per
Speaker 3: game last year and played twenty something. MINUTES i think
Speaker 3: he's probably.
Speaker 4: Gonna be in a pretty similar. Place and a lot
Speaker 4: of it comes down, to Like Ken davey On mitchell
Speaker 4: hit his.
Speaker 3: THREES i really think that's probably the number one thing
Speaker 3: for For, pella because If Davion mitchell hitting his, THREES
Speaker 3: i think the team would rather have him out, there,
Speaker 3: truthfully at least in like the starting and closing. Lineups
Speaker 3: If David mitchell is shooting twenty nine percent from, three you,
Speaker 3: know like he's been prone to in the, past then
Speaker 3: we might be having a very different.
Speaker 2: Conversation, yeah what point do we accept though That Davion
Speaker 2: mitchell is not going to do that In?
Speaker 1: Miami, APPARENTLY i guess would be the. QUESTION i.
Speaker 3: Shooters have a lot more variance than people, REALIZE i,
Speaker 3: think except for the very best and very. Worst you
Speaker 3: know how many guys in THE nba have carved out
Speaker 3: a care where they're shoing thirty three percent one day
Speaker 3: and thirty six the next and suddenly they were, like
Speaker 3: oh they went from bad to. Good it's, like, well,
Speaker 3: really they just made like seven more threes in their
Speaker 3: total sample.
Speaker 4: Size you.
Speaker 3: Know it's like the line between we talk about shooting is,
Speaker 3: excellent good, enough or. Bad but there's a lot of
Speaker 3: realm in that good enough THAT i think it's papered over.
Speaker 3: Sometimes AND i think that, like if the heat play
Speaker 3: like they did last, year it doesn't matter as much
Speaker 3: where it's like zero. Screens give the ball To yannis
Speaker 3: and let him run straight at the rim every single,
Speaker 3: time like he's a infinitely Better Jaime Haakas, like, yeah
Speaker 3: they're not gonna need the shooting as, much but if
Speaker 3: they are dragged down in the half court, more if
Speaker 3: they're running more traditional stuff than they will need.
Speaker 1: It so we'll see who's your final.
Speaker 3: PICK i think it's kind of crazy we went this,
Speaker 3: long you, know and brought them. Up this WOULDN'T i
Speaker 3: wouldn't necessarily have even picked, him BUT i feel like
Speaker 3: so somebody. Should so we got to Say modess bazilis
Speaker 3: for The, bulls. RIGHT i think that this is going
Speaker 3: to be such an interesting test case in how much
Speaker 3: can you flourish next to players who have somewhat similar skill,
Speaker 3: sets BECAUSE i think The Caleb wilson, selection which looks,
Speaker 3: awesome Like wilson was the story of The Summer, league,
Speaker 3: right he is going to do a lot of the
Speaker 3: things That wizzelles did kind of not in the exact same,
Speaker 3: way but BUT i just, LIKE i just like watching him, Play,
Speaker 3: like you, know last year he was scoring sixteen points
Speaker 3: per game, already the three point volume is actually really.
Speaker 3: High LIKE i don't think people realized to shooting like
Speaker 3: eight per thirty six and, yeah you're making thirty five
Speaker 3: percent of, them but at this point in a player's,
Speaker 3: career the volume is more important than the. Accuracy incredible
Speaker 3: secondary room, protector like having him And Caleb wilson out
Speaker 3: there flying around and just like swatting shots and like
Speaker 3: people are shooting floaters and they're still getting blocked. Anyway,
Speaker 3: LIKE i think that's going to be super. Fun you,
Speaker 3: know the handle is not, good but it's so much
Speaker 3: better from his rookie year THAT i just get really
Speaker 3: excited about.
Speaker 4: It and the Same i'd say with his, passing which
Speaker 4: was basically.
Speaker 3: Non existent as a rookie and now is like below,
Speaker 3: average and that's like a much bigger you, know then
Speaker 3: people give it credit.
Speaker 4: For consistency for him is going to be. Key like
Speaker 4: there Are knights where he looks like a Future All.
Speaker 3: Star there Are knights where it's, like who you, know
Speaker 3: is This Patrick Williams on the, court the spacing is
Speaker 3: going to be kind of cramped With wilson And Nick,
Speaker 3: claxton but at least they Have Norm.
Speaker 4: Palell now he'll shoot a, Lot he'll make a little bit.
Speaker 3: EASIER i Think Josh giddy is still like just one
Speaker 3: of the best passers in the, league whatever else you
Speaker 3: think About Josh. Giitty SO i just we saw Like
Speaker 3: gazails just got so much better from year one to year,
Speaker 3: two AND i kind of am hoping that he'll do
Speaker 3: the same thing in year.
Speaker 4: Three even given The Caleb Wilson, Ofvid'll.
Speaker 2: I'm hoping they have enough space BECAUSE i THINK i
Speaker 2: would echo everything you, said and he's also just BEEN
Speaker 2: i guess the word would be more, phrasing more well
Speaker 2: rounded offensive player THAN i thought he was gonna be.
Speaker 2: Coming and you mentioned like the three point volume in,
Speaker 2: efficiency just some of the ability to get to the
Speaker 2: basket on his own, too not something THAT i had seen.
Speaker 2: Coming i'm just curious, whether like do the, bolt like
Speaker 2: his rim finishing has been a little bit on the
Speaker 2: lower end then WHAT i would have liked for someone
Speaker 2: with just his. Size but it's also you look at
Speaker 2: the environment he's. In does this team have enough? Shooting
Speaker 2: BECAUSE i like the idea of him in. THEORY i
Speaker 2: like the idea of him playing Alongside Trey jones better
Speaker 2: Than Josh, gitty but Like Josh gitty is also the
Speaker 2: better shooter as, well And Norman powells, there so that's
Speaker 2: gonna open up the floor a little bit if you
Speaker 2: could play More Jalen, smith but like His Caleb. Wilson you,
Speaker 2: know what do we say about the Stickiest Summer league?
Speaker 2: Stats that three point volume or the. Stickiest seems Like
Speaker 2: Caleb wilson's probably gonna be taking more threes than he
Speaker 2: did it, Unc but does that actually open up the
Speaker 2: floor For brazellos and so do those. Redundancies i'm Also
Speaker 2: i'm very. Curousy how does this front off his view
Speaker 2: him just because he's not their? Guy and so we'll
Speaker 2: kind OF i Like Thiago splitter as a head coach. Here,
Speaker 2: yeah he's a good. Pick this is someone who it's
Speaker 2: he's kind of entering prime most improved player territory right
Speaker 2: where if you see him having the, opportunity he might
Speaker 2: be on your short, list whether you're going three or
Speaker 2: five deep on your ballot to win the.
Speaker 4: Award, Yeah, NO i think that's all. Right AND i
Speaker 4: will SAY i think that like the. Bulls certainly The
Speaker 4: bulls like.
Speaker 3: Fans and media like are obsessed with, him, Right AND
Speaker 3: i think part of that is because he was the
Speaker 3: only break spark on the team for a long. Time
Speaker 3: Now Cale, wilson so there's kind of a shinier. Object BUT,
Speaker 3: i LIKE i, Said i'm just impressed by guys who
Speaker 3: take big leap from yr one to year, two AND
Speaker 3: I i fall into the trap SOMETIMES i think of
Speaker 3: thinking that that improvement can continue. On So i'm not
Speaker 3: gonna say this is a certainty because he might have
Speaker 3: just like sixteen point per, games a lot for AN nba, player, Right,
Speaker 3: like he might just be that's that's who he's going to.
Speaker 3: Be BUT i never want to say that about a
Speaker 3: guy who's not even twenty. Two AND i think like
Speaker 3: the team in general is just gonna be a little
Speaker 3: bit more competent and more. Enjoyable to watch the SH
Speaker 3: i shouldn't SAY joi to. Watch actually always like watching the.
Speaker 3: Balls they run like, hell they're super fast the past
Speaker 3: two years or.
Speaker 4: Highlights, yeah, yeah SO i like watching The.
Speaker 3: Bulls BUT i think they're just gonna be more competent
Speaker 3: on the night to night, basis AND i think like
Speaker 3: his evolution is going to be a part of.
Speaker 2: That my final pick is going to Be Trayvon brazil
Speaker 2: from when they Trade Nicole jokic and start him In.
Speaker 1: Denver it's actually not my.
Speaker 2: PICK i want the record to reflect That i'm annoyed
Speaker 2: THAT i can't Pick Rasher fleming because The sun's lost
Speaker 2: their minds and traded For Miles.
Speaker 3: Bridges the exact same thing on, HERE I Reshaer, fleming
Speaker 3: but he's never gonna play because The suns are weirdly
Speaker 3: the deepest team in THE.
Speaker 4: Nba that was my.
Speaker 2: Note, BASICALLY i am going to pick out of stubbornness
Speaker 2: common molo watch sure he needs to be the starter
Speaker 2: at the five from the day.
Speaker 1: One prove to me that you're invested in.
Speaker 2: HIM i don't want to read too much Into Summer,
Speaker 2: league But i'm about to go ahead and read too
Speaker 2: much Into Summer league because the stuff he was, doing
Speaker 2: like the way he's moving, defensively connecting on more of his,
Speaker 2: screens WHICH i also thought when you're not playing.
Speaker 1: With these guys all the, time was kind of a
Speaker 1: big deal to.
Speaker 2: Me the shooting is just however you feel about the
Speaker 2: time it takes for him to get it off like
Speaker 2: that seems like it just might be real as a
Speaker 2: pick and pop option to start. Him you have no
Speaker 2: one at the five spot like Mar i've never been
Speaker 2: To Mark williams. GUY i Like, osoigadaro but he's. UNDERSIZE
Speaker 2: i like this is you talk about The suns being.
Speaker 2: Deep this is one of those, instances, though where there
Speaker 2: is no one to me that should be getting minutes
Speaker 2: over him at the center, position and you can't, say, Like,
Speaker 2: Okay Miles bridges is now blocking not only Was sheer,
Speaker 2: fleming but CoA. Pete and if you're still believer In Ryan,
Speaker 2: done he's gonna be blocked by A Dylan.
Speaker 1: Brooks as well as A Miles.
Speaker 2: Bridges The, SUNS i, guess have immediate expectations because you
Speaker 2: have to if you're going to trade an unprotected twenty
Speaker 2: thirty three first round pick for the sixtieth seventieth best
Speaker 2: player in THE. NBA i don't. LIKE i don't know
Speaker 2: where you would Rank Miles bridge is? THERE i want
Speaker 2: if my watch isn't starting By, christmas we will. RIOT
Speaker 2: i will let everyone know the address where we'll be doing,
Speaker 2: so at the time and the. Date BUT i think
Speaker 2: that this IS i and this is me Doing Ameya
Speaker 2: kulpa as, well BECAUSE i thought after for a large
Speaker 2: part of his rookie, SEASON i just didn't see. It
Speaker 2: you saw some incremental, improvement but the fact that they
Speaker 2: weren't playing him, MORE i THINK i read too much
Speaker 2: INTO i wonder if he was going to be strong.
Speaker 1: ENOUGH i think that he's going to be strong.
Speaker 2: Enough to log heavy minutes at the, Five, MIKE i
Speaker 2: would just Like phoenix to start him as.
Speaker 1: All that's really just Where i'm at With Coy.
Speaker 3: AND i, say that's someone who is not a Big malowatch.
Speaker 3: Fan and you're talking about his rookie. Season he merely
Speaker 3: had a rookie, season, Right like he played four hundred minutes.
Speaker 3: Total but, YEAH i mean summer League, mallawase which was a,
Speaker 3: Monster like he's got hoovers for, hands like he was
Speaker 3: doing crazy things on the, boards bombing.
Speaker 4: Threes and, Yeah i'm not a believer In Mark williams at.
Speaker 4: ALL i do Like.
Speaker 3: OSOIGDARO i don't know that OsO can play more than
Speaker 3: twenty two minutes per game on a team that's trying to, win,
Speaker 3: really AND i think That, malawatch like at this, point
Speaker 3: you just look at a ceiling and be, like, yeah
Speaker 3: maybe he doesn't reach, it but we'd better find, out
Speaker 3: because if a team like The suns doesn't have that
Speaker 3: many young, outs and if you think That malawatch is
Speaker 3: one of, them and he can turn into some kind
Speaker 3: of like amazing unicorny like awesome, defender which he could
Speaker 3: certainly block, shots can't he be an awesome? Defender remains
Speaker 3: to be. Seen he'll block the shit at everything, though
Speaker 3: and he gets a ton of, rebounds and if he
Speaker 3: can really do stuff on offense, Too like you have
Speaker 3: to figure that out or at least figure out if
Speaker 3: like it's worth pursuing, further, right because like The suns
Speaker 3: are gonna win a finals this, year but you want
Speaker 3: to eventually and you want him to be a piece of.
Speaker 4: It let's get him down that. Road.
Speaker 2: Now i'm already gonna Because I'm i'm already annoyed that
Speaker 2: Cong gillespie won't be starting BECAUSE i.
Speaker 3: Want, hey one of our picks for the, record that's
Speaker 3: one of our picks in this segment last year was A,
Speaker 3: Gillespie SO i feel good about that.
Speaker 4: One uh do you know?
Speaker 2: WHO i didn't he was on my long list again
Speaker 2: this year BECAUSE i think it was injuries, mostly BUT
Speaker 2: i think we both Picked Terren Shannon.
Speaker 1: Junior maybe he was your, pick that was.
Speaker 3: Your, guy AND i Picked Jalen, clark and neither those
Speaker 3: are really panned out that much unless you wanna Count sannon's.
Speaker 2: Postseason so, Hey Jaale, clark m'll be playing some four this? Year,
Speaker 2: minunesoto who? Knows SO I i GET i was just
Speaker 2: about to, Say i'm gonna be annoyed When gillespie's not,
Speaker 2: starting because then you can't get someone to deliver model
Speaker 2: watch the. BALL i do Trust Devin, booker BUT i
Speaker 2: want someone higher. End but If gillespie's coming off the,
Speaker 2: BENCH i don't trust That phoenix isn't gonna. START i
Speaker 2: don't Trust phoenix to. Start mall watch, anyway maybe that
Speaker 2: ends up being an awesome pairing for. Him if those
Speaker 2: two are coming off the, bench you're gonna have some
Speaker 2: pretty wicked secondary.
Speaker 1: Units.
Speaker 2: Uh we just better look back on this, season, like,
Speaker 2: oh like come, man watch played fifteen hundred plus minutes like,
Speaker 2: that that better be a thing that we're talking.
Speaker 4: About, yeah.
Speaker 1: Totally did you have anybody?
Speaker 2: BEFORE i let just get out all you honorable mentions
Speaker 2: that you wanted to run through very. Quickly didn't get
Speaker 2: you went through fifteen players with some with some tangents
Speaker 2: on the side with.
Speaker 3: THEM i think the only guys we didn't talk, about
Speaker 3: like pretty extensively Were Zach, edie which, like, yeah he's
Speaker 3: a monster when he's on the.
Speaker 4: Court can't he be on the. Court that's really all it.
Speaker 4: Is we know he's really. Good will he PLAY i don't,
Speaker 4: know BUT i hope he.
Speaker 3: Does we had both talked to think of a little
Speaker 3: bit About Cason, wallace WHO I the one Thing i'd
Speaker 3: say About Cason wallace is, LIKE i don't Eat his
Speaker 3: game kind of stagnated offensively last year a little, bit
Speaker 3: but it felt to me like that was less about
Speaker 3: him hitting his ceiling than him just hitting the ceiling
Speaker 3: of his. Role, RIGHT i don't think he's hit the
Speaker 3: limit of his. POTENTIAL i think he'd hit the limit
Speaker 3: of his. ROLE i assume he's going to start this
Speaker 3: year With Lou, dort But i'll say THAT espn death
Speaker 3: chart already Has jared.
Speaker 4: McCain penciled, in so who. Knows and then, finally, like.
Speaker 3: The only other guy THAT i thought would be worth
Speaker 3: talking about a little bit Is Walker. Kessler just like
Speaker 3: paid a pretty. Penny we kind of nobody's good and
Speaker 3: not good At but at the same, time he just
Speaker 3: missed so much time last. Year And i'm not one
Speaker 3: hundred percent confident in my evaluation Of kessler on either
Speaker 3: end of the, Ball LIKE i don't really remember what
Speaker 3: he looks like on, offense particularly, right SO i want
Speaker 3: to see what he can do this. Year but if
Speaker 3: you're going to look, good play next To luca as
Speaker 3: a big man is the way to do.
Speaker 2: IT i would, think, so, yeah, Yeah i'd thought about,
Speaker 2: it BUT i wasn't. Sure like when you command four
Speaker 2: first round picks to to outright two swaps and one
Speaker 2: hundred and thirty million dollars that do you fall out
Speaker 2: of the breakout?
Speaker 1: Route would be? My would be?
Speaker 3: My he hasn't working out on the, COURT i would,
Speaker 3: say right like it's It's it's like people like he's
Speaker 3: a great, defender but he's been a part of some
Speaker 3: of the worst defenses in the, league like even two
Speaker 3: years ago when he was With, Utah like they were
Speaker 3: like a sub twentieth percentile defense When kessler was on the.
Speaker 3: Court you can't say that about guys like go behar
Speaker 3: where that would never, happen you, know no matter the.
Speaker 3: Sort and, yeah Supporting cass was. Horrible BUT i want to.
Speaker 4: See a team that's.
Speaker 3: TRYING i want to see a team AND Jj reddick's
Speaker 3: usually are a pretty good job of spinning up defenses
Speaker 3: that have outperformed the. Personnel, well he's got better personnel,
Speaker 3: now or at least he got a better. Center, now
Speaker 3: let's let's see you actually do.
Speaker 2: It, Kesler Zaire williams And Matis staible are weirdly important
Speaker 2: to this team, defensively and then, HOPEFULLY i Guess Quenton
Speaker 2: grimes is like, Fine it's, like the point is that this.
Speaker 2: TEAM i don't know what to think about that team just.
Speaker 2: Yet Payton watson was on my. List he's also been
Speaker 2: mentioned in the, comments BUT i don't know where he's
Speaker 2: going to be, playing AND i would, argue is he
Speaker 2: less likely to break out In denver than if he's playing?
Speaker 1: Elsewhere?
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, NO i think so it's still gonna.
Speaker 3: Be you, know he's still gonna be the third option
Speaker 3: most nights and the fourth on many depending on What
Speaker 3: Aaron gordon's got, cooking, Right so, yeah absolutely.
Speaker 2: We Have Johan Baron jay was another name that was
Speaker 2: mentioned in the. Chat they're trusting going to be the backup,
Speaker 2: Five so that's certainly that's a good name to call.
Speaker 4: Out you And dan did have that on the long.
Speaker 3: LIST i will say for everybody who's commenting like that
Speaker 3: was somebody that was on his, Radar so good Job.
Speaker 1: Dan oh by the, way this was not on my.
Speaker 2: Radar you added, him and THEN i almost chose, him
Speaker 2: BUT i don't know what the opportunity is gonna look
Speaker 2: like In. Milwaukee casper Shakacionas i'm just a believer. IN
Speaker 2: i was out on him After Summer league last. YEAR
Speaker 2: i thought that he was gonna be like all, flash no,
Speaker 2: Substance and THEN i watched more of him With. Miami
Speaker 2: the shooting was way better THAN i expected it to.
Speaker 2: Be and if you put the ball in his, HANDS
Speaker 2: i think he's gonna be able to make like like
Speaker 2: past guys. OPEN i just don't, Know Like milwaukee has
Speaker 2: like eighty guards at this, point so we might be
Speaker 2: a year or two. Early and then the final two
Speaker 2: NAMES i want to Mention Guie santos And Golden. State
Speaker 2: is He Jackxa lenderberg is? There so this is Year
Speaker 2: but given the health Of Moses moody And Jimmy, butler
Speaker 2: is he just like the most important wing on this team?
Speaker 4: Now as a scary, sentence, Yeah and Then Ugo.
Speaker 2: GONZALES i think The celtics were lamenting the lack of
Speaker 2: perimeter rim pressure or rim pressure they have from perimeter.
Speaker 2: Players they then went and traded their best player at
Speaker 2: providing that without really replacing. It who go to, me
Speaker 2: and he threw some passes In Summer. LEAGUE i don't
Speaker 2: feel confident enough in his role With boston just yet
Speaker 2: because they have so many guys to pick. Him but
Speaker 2: he was someone else who was on my radar as.
Speaker 4: Well, yeah those are good. LISTS i think we'll see Maybe.
Speaker 3: GOO i, LIKE i don't really have a lot of
Speaker 3: confidence in him with the ball, yet and they tried
Speaker 3: to do it In Summer league some and it didn't look.
Speaker 3: Great but, again summer league you can't take much away
Speaker 3: from especially for non point guards who are trying to you,
Speaker 3: know run an.
Speaker 4: Offense so we'll.
Speaker 2: See, Uh, mike this was way longer THAN i. Thought
Speaker 2: thank you forgiving me sorry every.
Speaker 1: Time, no you don't need to. APOLOGIZE i hope.
Speaker 2: You didn't need to be, anywhere but are able just
Speaker 2: to tell.
Speaker 4: My kids there at camp they're? Fine? Probably probably are?
Speaker 1: They are they in the scouting? Portal?
Speaker 2: Yeah is that where they are their?
Speaker 4: Best my eldest is, five and he is pretty good
Speaker 4: dribbling with both.
Speaker 3: HANDS i would say it only goes off his feet
Speaker 3: every third or fourth, dribble so, yeah they can.
Speaker 1: We find him on.
Speaker 2: Calshi is he is? That oh?
Speaker 4: Good?
Speaker 2: Yeah, mike can you just tell everyone where they could
Speaker 2: find you in all the, excellent excellent work that you.
Speaker 3: Think you a basketball poetry, substack it's definitely uh my
Speaker 3: wife says it's the best one out, there so you
Speaker 3: should check that. Out and then at Be Ball's poetry
Speaker 3: on x Or. UH i Think i'm just at Basketball
Speaker 3: poetry On Blue. Sky, uh if that's where you like
Speaker 3: to get your social. Media but oh and, uh you
Speaker 3: know Every wednesday now we're doing The REAL gm.
Speaker 2: Podcast i'm on that, too so yes should have played the.
Speaker 4: Podcast check out The Real jam.
Speaker 2: Podcast you And wes good chemistry over. There co find
Speaker 2: co subscribe to Basketball. Poetry the link is into YouTube
Speaker 2: and podcast. Description, mike thank you once. Again as you
Speaker 2: know by, Now i'll be festuring you again in the,
Speaker 2: future certainly for your, exercise BUT i might not wait
Speaker 2: so long BECAUSE i love picking your brain about this.
Speaker 2: Stuff so thanks so, much, man and take. CARE i
Speaker 2: will talk to you. Too